{"total":{"value":147,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2026-04-01"],"total_page":2,"ivods":[{"id":"17318","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17318","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685bbd6dedb4516fb0fa82c4ca6dd6713f27a9d5466ed3f814044fe13ba5fbcfde35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-04-01","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-04-01T08:38:02+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T14:53:00+08:00","duration":22498,"影片長度":"06:14:58","委員發言時間":"08:38:02 - 14:53:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1340.5134687500001,"end":1342.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1342.1334687500002,"end":1342.6903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1344.5128437500002,"end":1347.5672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1347.8540937500002,"end":1351.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1352.9503437500002,"end":1378.5159687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1378.5328437500002,"end":1379.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1380.99659375,"end":1382.8697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1384.4222187500002,"end":1389.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1389.8053437500002,"end":1397.5003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1402.1747187500002,"end":1429.1747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1429.79909375,"end":1473.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1473.9609687500001,"end":1474.0284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1474.06221875,"end":1483.8665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1485.0140937500003,"end":1488.6084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1493.89034375,"end":1495.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1495.8984687500001,"end":1520.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1520.35034375,"end":1558.6565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1561.52534375,"end":1564.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1567.16159375,"end":1568.0897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1569.57471875,"end":1570.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1573.65846875,"end":1575.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1578.41721875,"end":1580.3409687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1582.9734687500002,"end":1585.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1585.4203437500003,"end":1585.6903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1586.5509687500003,"end":1588.6097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1590.4490937500002,"end":1592.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1595.00534375,"end":1596.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1598.9203437500003,"end":1600.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1602.8015937500002,"end":1605.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1608.2859687500002,"end":1611.5765937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1613.71971875,"end":1615.0359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1615.3059687500001,"end":1615.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1615.6265937500002,"end":1619.1703437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1622.00534375,"end":1624.5028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":1624.8740937500002,"end":1624.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1626.3253437500002,"end":1628.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1630.0715937500001,"end":1632.7547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1633.1765937500002,"end":1633.3453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1635.92721875,"end":1637.5303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1640.2472187500002,"end":1642.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1645.8665937500002,"end":1647.4022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1650.8109687500003,"end":1652.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1654.6753437500001,"end":1656.3797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1658.9784687500003,"end":1660.6322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1662.1509687500002,"end":1664.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1668.9009687500002,"end":1670.3015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1670.94284375,"end":1672.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1677.2372187500002,"end":1677.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1677.5072187500002,"end":1679.9203437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1680.37596875,"end":1680.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1685.2528437500002,"end":1687.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":1694.3653437500002,"end":1696.7784687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1695.98534375,"end":1696.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":1696.0190937500001,"end":1696.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1696.39034375,"end":1696.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":1696.4409687500001,"end":1696.4915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1696.4915937500002,"end":1696.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":1696.5759687500001,"end":1696.5928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1696.5928437500002,"end":1696.6265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":1696.6265937500002,"end":1696.6434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1702.4990937500002,"end":1707.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1708.21971875,"end":1713.6197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1713.9572187500003,"end":1722.6309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1723.12034375,"end":1725.0609687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1725.7359687500002,"end":1731.5409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1731.8784687500001,"end":1770.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1771.1972187500003,"end":1813.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1814.38034375,"end":1834.0565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1835.05221875,"end":1846.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1846.61159375,"end":1876.9190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1876.96971875,"end":1879.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1880.5472187500002,"end":1911.7828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1912.2384687500003,"end":1918.3978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1919.0390937500001,"end":1940.6053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1941.53346875,"end":1942.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1942.9678437500002,"end":1943.9634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1945.5497187500002,"end":1964.1290937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1964.5678437500003,"end":1965.2090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1965.6478437500002,"end":1968.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1968.95534375,"end":1971.3853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1971.62159375,"end":1981.2234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1981.30784375,"end":1986.0328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1986.6234687500003,"end":1999.3640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2000.1403437500003,"end":2003.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2003.5997187500002,"end":2021.0484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2021.26784375,"end":2035.8478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2037.4172187500003,"end":2045.3822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2046.0740937500002,"end":2047.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2047.8797187500002,"end":2059.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2060.75534375,"end":2061.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2062.9490937500004,"end":2063.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2063.9615937500002,"end":2065.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2065.69971875,"end":2078.1872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2079.2840937500005,"end":2082.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2083.1484687500006,"end":2088.0928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2088.7509687500005,"end":2125.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2125.6903437500005,"end":2143.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2144.33721875,"end":2145.2147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2145.61971875,"end":2157.6178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2158.3434687500003,"end":2159.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2160.4022187500004,"end":2160.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2161.46534375,"end":2166.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2166.08909375,"end":2167.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2167.54034375,"end":2172.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2174.17221875,"end":2195.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2196.12659375,"end":2212.9003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2214.26721875,"end":2217.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2218.2497187500003,"end":2222.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2223.0084687500002,"end":2224.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2224.96596875,"end":2253.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2254.0584687500004,"end":2266.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2267.59221875,"end":2272.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2273.2790937500004,"end":2285.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":2286.0028437500005,"end":2287.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":2287.25159375,"end":2289.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2300.07659375,"end":2302.5234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2302.6922187500004,"end":2312.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2313.4922187500006,"end":2318.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2318.80784375,"end":2357.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2357.92409375,"end":2361.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2362.86846875,"end":2387.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2387.94471875,"end":2390.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2390.5772187500006,"end":2395.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2396.0615937500006,"end":2398.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2398.54221875,"end":2399.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2399.45346875,"end":2406.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2406.4228437500005,"end":2442.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2442.67034375,"end":2450.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2450.85471875,"end":2452.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2452.8797187500004,"end":2475.5428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2476.67346875,"end":2488.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2489.0428437500004,"end":2489.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2489.61659375,"end":2489.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2489.6503437500005,"end":2489.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2489.68409375,"end":2504.2303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2504.43284375,"end":2523.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2524.2947187500004,"end":2539.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2540.05596875,"end":2568.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2568.7772187500004,"end":2569.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2570.75159375,"end":2583.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2584.1503437500005,"end":2584.3190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2584.3359687500006,"end":2593.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2593.93784375,"end":2618.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2618.5078437500006,"end":2619.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2619.48659375,"end":2622.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2623.9922187500006,"end":2625.9159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2626.47284375,"end":2641.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2641.5084687500002,"end":2646.8409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2647.09409375,"end":2660.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":2660.9147187500002,"end":2665.3359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2676.4228437500005,"end":2684.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2685.0965937500005,"end":2716.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2716.93971875,"end":2768.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2768.59409375,"end":2790.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2790.6834687500004,"end":2800.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2800.65659375,"end":2804.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2804.63909375,"end":2805.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2805.9890937500004,"end":2810.7647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2811.7265937500006,"end":2823.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2824.16346875,"end":2855.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2855.8209687500002,"end":2859.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2859.9384687500005,"end":2873.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":2874.6534687500007,"end":2877.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":2877.5390937500006,"end":2895.7303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":2896.0340937500005,"end":2898.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":2898.53159375,"end":2902.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":2902.6153437500006,"end":2905.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2913.53346875,"end":2915.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":2915.6934687500006,"end":2917.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2925.22784375,"end":2925.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2925.83534375,"end":2976.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2976.8484687500004,"end":2989.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2989.7578437500006,"end":3006.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3006.8690937500005,"end":3019.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3020.2340937500003,"end":3022.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3022.49534375,"end":3027.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3027.67596875,"end":3049.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3041.17596875,"end":3041.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3049.4784687500005,"end":3056.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3049.51221875,"end":3049.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3056.68409375,"end":3115.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3114.29534375,"end":3119.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3119.29034375,"end":3121.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3122.37846875,"end":3140.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3124.48784375,"end":3124.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3137.7178437500006,"end":3137.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3140.6034687500005,"end":3167.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3168.3122187500003,"end":3183.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3184.9678437500006,"end":3186.7228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3187.33034375,"end":3212.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3213.6384687500004,"end":3222.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3222.5822187500007,"end":3228.2184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3228.5222187500003,"end":3229.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3228.99471875,"end":3230.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3230.85096875,"end":3234.7322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3235.20471875,"end":3251.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3251.6915937500007,"end":3262.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3261.22596875,"end":3262.9978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3262.9978437500004,"end":3265.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3266.40659375,"end":3267.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3269.1065937500007,"end":3275.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3277.5440937500007,"end":3281.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3282.2184687500003,"end":3289.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3288.90096875,"end":3292.5290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3292.8834687500002,"end":3295.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3295.8028437500006,"end":3295.8534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3295.8534687500005,"end":3295.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3295.88721875,"end":3296.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3296.17409375,"end":3296.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3296.19096875,"end":3296.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3296.8828437500006,"end":3298.2159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3297.69284375,"end":3300.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3300.3759687500005,"end":3302.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3304.13909375,"end":3324.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3325.82346875,"end":3378.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3377.2584687500002,"end":3378.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3378.9628437500005,"end":3380.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3379.65471875,"end":3381.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3381.8484687500004,"end":3415.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3416.18909375,"end":3416.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3417.2859687500004,"end":3445.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3445.8047187500006,"end":3460.0134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3460.28346875,"end":3470.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3471.03284375,"end":3483.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3474.82971875,"end":3476.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3483.2165937500004,"end":3521.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3500.8847187500005,"end":3500.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3500.9353437500004,"end":3501.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3501.1884687500005,"end":3501.2559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3503.02784375,"end":3503.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3518.87346875,"end":3519.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3520.6453437500004,"end":3542.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3542.9540937500005,"end":3572.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3573.54846875,"end":3627.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3599.63721875,"end":3600.0759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3622.6884687500005,"end":3623.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3623.73471875,"end":3626.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3627.53159375,"end":3658.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3659.2059687500005,"end":3670.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3672.4697187500005,"end":3672.8409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":3673.0603437500004,"end":3673.0772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3673.0772187500006,"end":3673.1447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":3673.1447187500007,"end":3673.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3673.2459687500004,"end":3673.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3673.7353437500005,"end":3687.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3687.6572187500005,"end":3703.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3704.4140937500006,"end":3707.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3707.50221875,"end":3709.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3709.9997187500003,"end":3713.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3713.9315937500005,"end":3726.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3726.01409375,"end":3730.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3730.95846875,"end":3731.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3732.3253437500007,"end":3742.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3742.0115937500004,"end":3765.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3753.9928437500002,"end":3754.1447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3766.0584687500004,"end":3768.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3769.0115937500004,"end":3777.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3776.3690937500005,"end":3796.9903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3791.2022187500006,"end":3791.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3796.9059687500003,"end":3802.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3802.0359687500004,"end":3805.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3805.27596875,"end":3805.6640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3805.6640937500006,"end":3806.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":3806.3728437500004,"end":3807.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":3809.0390937500006,"end":3811.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3819.0290937500004,"end":3824.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":3825.08721875,"end":3828.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3834.7059687500005,"end":3834.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3835.2459687500004,"end":3835.8534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3836.3259687500004,"end":3840.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3840.4265937500004,"end":3840.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3840.52784375,"end":3846.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3865.9247187500005,"end":3925.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3926.5059687500006,"end":3930.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3929.00346875,"end":3929.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3930.2353437500005,"end":3930.3028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3930.31971875,"end":3930.3703437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3930.4040937500004,"end":3937.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3935.26409375,"end":3935.6522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3937.42409375,"end":3943.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3943.1953437500006,"end":3943.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3944.1403437500003,"end":3947.3972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3947.3972187500003,"end":3947.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3947.8359687500006,"end":3960.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":3957.38721875,"end":3957.4040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":3957.4209687500006,"end":3957.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":3959.98596875,"end":3960.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3960.1715937500003,"end":3972.8278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":3965.04846875,"end":3965.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3965.4365937500006,"end":3965.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":3965.45346875,"end":3965.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3973.16534375,"end":3974.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3973.30034375,"end":3973.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3974.4815937500007,"end":3994.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3995.35596875,"end":3997.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3997.81971875,"end":4012.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4012.6022187500002,"end":4037.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4037.30721875,"end":4051.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4041.10409375,"end":4042.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4050.0309687500003,"end":4050.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4050.4528437500003,"end":4050.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4050.5709687500002,"end":4051.0265937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4051.0265937500008,"end":4051.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4051.1953437500006,"end":4051.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4051.21221875,"end":4051.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4051.22909375,"end":4051.2628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4052.0390937500006,"end":4065.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4065.6065937500007,"end":4065.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4065.97784375,"end":4066.1972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4067.49659375,"end":4098.175343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4097.888468749999,"end":4101.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4100.385968750001,"end":4115.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4102.259093750001,"end":4102.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4115.2528437500005,"end":4124.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4124.280968749999,"end":4126.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4126.03596875,"end":4126.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4126.964093750001,"end":4127.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4127.03159375,"end":4158.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4127.6728437500005,"end":4128.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4160.27534375,"end":4165.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4162.33409375,"end":4162.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4162.38471875,"end":4162.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4165.37159375,"end":4168.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4168.64534375,"end":4173.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4170.974093750001,"end":4171.345343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4172.948468750001,"end":4185.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4176.66096875,"end":4176.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4185.4022187499995,"end":4201.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4202.614718750001,"end":4215.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4207.204718749999,"end":4207.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4207.50846875,"end":4207.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4214.69721875,"end":4214.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4215.33846875,"end":4231.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4218.05534375,"end":4218.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4223.7928437499995,"end":4224.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4230.07034375,"end":4230.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4231.403468750001,"end":4236.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4237.41096875,"end":4237.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4238.30534375,"end":4240.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4240.583468750001,"end":4242.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4242.827843749999,"end":4244.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":4252.497218750001,"end":4252.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4256.850968750001,"end":4256.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4256.901593750001,"end":4257.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4257.036593750001,"end":4257.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4257.1209687499995,"end":4257.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4257.28971875,"end":4258.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4258.538468750001,"end":4264.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4264.950968749999,"end":4267.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4273.118468750001,"end":4274.097218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4282.97346875,"end":4283.378468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4284.20534375,"end":4284.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4284.91409375,"end":4284.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4285.4540937500005,"end":4286.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4287.20909375,"end":4288.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4289.014718750001,"end":4301.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4301.046593749999,"end":4305.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4305.974093750001,"end":4307.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4308.505343750001,"end":4341.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4343.470343749999,"end":4362.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4362.792218750001,"end":4363.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4363.0115937499995,"end":4376.190968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4376.427218750001,"end":4398.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4392.01971875,"end":4394.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4395.86721875,"end":4396.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4398.16221875,"end":4400.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4400.5584687499995,"end":4477.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4478.55471875,"end":4479.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4480.208468750001,"end":4480.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4480.967843750001,"end":4481.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4481.5584687499995,"end":4484.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4484.663468750001,"end":4496.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4496.526593750001,"end":4500.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4497.38721875,"end":4504.862843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4501.3865937499995,"end":4501.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4501.403468750001,"end":4501.909718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4503.040343750001,"end":4507.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4505.21721875,"end":4505.284718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4505.284718749999,"end":4505.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4505.30159375,"end":4506.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4508.052218750001,"end":4510.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4509.081593749999,"end":4509.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4510.6678437499995,"end":4513.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4513.637843750001,"end":4516.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4516.1522187499995,"end":4516.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4516.84409375,"end":4521.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4521.72096875,"end":4528.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4529.145968750001,"end":4539.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4536.09846875,"end":4552.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4552.38284375,"end":4591.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4591.70159375,"end":4654.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4656.33284375,"end":4660.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4660.686593750001,"end":4663.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4663.639718750001,"end":4667.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4667.74034375,"end":4671.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4671.38534375,"end":4673.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4672.83659375,"end":4675.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4674.11909375,"end":4677.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4675.38471875,"end":4678.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4678.42221875,"end":4693.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4693.66034375,"end":4695.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4697.5584687499995,"end":4698.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4705.00034375,"end":4705.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4705.2197187500005,"end":4705.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4706.2997187500005,"end":4707.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4707.43034375,"end":4708.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4715.78346875,"end":4723.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4724.25471875,"end":4729.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4729.485968749999,"end":4729.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4729.958468750001,"end":4731.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4731.983468750001,"end":4732.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4732.911593750001,"end":4733.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4732.94534375,"end":4732.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4733.2997187500005,"end":4734.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4734.85221875,"end":4735.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4735.965968750001,"end":4785.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4739.138468749999,"end":4739.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4785.696593750001,"end":4793.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4794.11721875,"end":4802.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4804.022843750001,"end":4814.890343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4816.18971875,"end":4817.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4817.944718750001,"end":4819.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4822.720343749999,"end":4829.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4830.229718750001,"end":4831.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4833.975968750001,"end":4839.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4839.91596875,"end":4844.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4844.2528437500005,"end":4845.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4845.77159375,"end":4846.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4846.83471875,"end":4874.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4875.218468749999,"end":4895.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4895.92409375,"end":4896.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4899.95721875,"end":4900.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4900.85159375,"end":4905.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4900.98659375,"end":4901.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4905.323468750001,"end":4906.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4908.05721875,"end":4909.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4908.95159375,"end":4910.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4910.200343750001,"end":4918.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4919.3465937500005,"end":4924.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":4924.51034375,"end":4924.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4924.544093750001,"end":4924.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":4924.61159375,"end":4924.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4924.679093750001,"end":4925.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":4924.71284375,"end":4924.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":4925.657843749999,"end":4926.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":4926.2822187500005,"end":4929.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4940.87909375,"end":4946.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":4946.1103437500005,"end":4950.126593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4946.144093750001,"end":4946.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":4950.126593749999,"end":4950.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4958.091593749999,"end":4958.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":4958.78346875,"end":4982.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4982.3915937500005,"end":4982.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":4983.2353437500005,"end":4987.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4987.538468750001,"end":4988.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4988.517218749999,"end":4991.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":4991.2509687500005,"end":4994.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4993.495343750001,"end":4993.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":4994.74409375,"end":5000.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5000.852843750001,"end":5003.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5003.654093749999,"end":5008.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5006.100968750001,"end":5006.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5008.159718750001,"end":5025.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5025.20346875,"end":5025.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5025.49034375,"end":5032.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5033.235968749999,"end":5037.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5040.39096875,"end":5040.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5042.247218750001,"end":5106.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5107.09784375,"end":5116.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5116.27784375,"end":5122.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5122.94346875,"end":5124.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5124.42846875,"end":5176.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5176.8759687500005,"end":5187.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5187.67596875,"end":5239.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5240.106593750001,"end":5241.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5241.794093750001,"end":5247.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5249.286593750001,"end":5251.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5251.9697187500005,"end":5272.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5259.462218750001,"end":5259.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5259.47909375,"end":5259.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5259.546593749999,"end":5259.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5266.499093750001,"end":5266.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5266.51596875,"end":5267.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5268.692843750001,"end":5268.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5270.65034375,"end":5270.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5272.13534375,"end":5282.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5280.690968750001,"end":5281.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5282.378468750001,"end":5285.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5285.63534375,"end":5301.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5302.1728437500005,"end":5306.610968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5304.16409375,"end":5304.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5307.35346875,"end":5308.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5308.062218749999,"end":5338.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5338.251593749999,"end":5349.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5339.702843749999,"end":5339.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5342.72346875,"end":5342.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5348.91659375,"end":5362.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5362.585343750001,"end":5363.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5363.749718749999,"end":5402.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5402.22471875,"end":5406.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5408.11409375,"end":5409.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5409.075968749999,"end":5410.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5410.37534375,"end":5420.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5410.392218749999,"end":5410.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5417.800343750001,"end":5418.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5420.07846875,"end":5512.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5512.671593749999,"end":5520.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5520.90659375,"end":5542.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5530.32284375,"end":5530.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5530.7615937499995,"end":5530.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5532.29721875,"end":5532.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5536.819718750001,"end":5537.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5538.456593750001,"end":5538.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5542.202843749999,"end":5548.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5548.446593750001,"end":5556.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5551.4334687499995,"end":5551.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5557.120343750001,"end":5576.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5562.25034375,"end":5562.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5568.25784375,"end":5568.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5568.7303437499995,"end":5568.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5571.19409375,"end":5571.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5571.227843750001,"end":5571.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5574.16409375,"end":5574.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5575.98659375,"end":5583.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5585.014718750001,"end":5588.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5588.08596875,"end":5612.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5613.179093750001,"end":5633.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5633.614718750001,"end":5637.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5638.677218750001,"end":5653.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5646.28784375,"end":5646.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5646.321593750001,"end":5646.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5646.52409375,"end":5646.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5646.96284375,"end":5647.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5653.71284375,"end":5660.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5661.559718750001,"end":5664.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5663.82096875,"end":5666.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5665.019093750001,"end":5667.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5666.014718750001,"end":5666.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5666.30159375,"end":5667.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5667.8709687499995,"end":5672.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5669.760968750001,"end":5669.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5669.82846875,"end":5670.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5671.954718749999,"end":5672.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5672.88284375,"end":5682.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5685.4715937500005,"end":5685.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5686.0115937499995,"end":5692.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5689.47096875,"end":5689.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5692.74471875,"end":5699.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5692.84596875,"end":5692.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5692.98096875,"end":5693.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5693.014718750001,"end":5693.048468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5699.663468750001,"end":5708.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5704.405343750001,"end":5704.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5708.337218750001,"end":5741.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5742.25596875,"end":5750.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5751.655343750001,"end":5752.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5752.5497187500005,"end":5781.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5782.5028437500005,"end":5793.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5793.72471875,"end":5794.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5794.55159375,"end":5798.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5797.23471875,"end":5805.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5805.317843750001,"end":5807.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5807.747843749999,"end":5817.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5814.2615937499995,"end":5818.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5818.59846875,"end":5824.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5820.134093750001,"end":5821.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5821.55159375,"end":5821.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5824.79159375,"end":5867.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5866.590968750001,"end":5868.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5868.00846875,"end":5892.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5871.045968750001,"end":5871.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5874.5897187499995,"end":5875.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":5887.161593750001,"end":5887.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":5893.55721875,"end":5895.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":5896.00409375,"end":5897.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":5899.59846875,"end":5903.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5909.470343750001,"end":5910.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5910.921593749999,"end":5911.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5911.84971875,"end":5912.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5912.9803437499995,"end":5914.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":5914.110968750001,"end":5914.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5926.64909375,"end":5928.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5928.67409375,"end":5934.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5935.05284375,"end":5936.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5937.128468750001,"end":5941.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5941.718468749999,"end":5943.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5944.064093750001,"end":5949.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5950.29096875,"end":5958.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5958.94784375,"end":5975.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5976.126593750001,"end":5976.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5977.257218750001,"end":5981.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5982.15096875,"end":5983.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5984.07471875,"end":5990.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5990.892218750001,"end":5992.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5993.64284375,"end":5996.376593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5996.5790937500005,"end":6004.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6004.8309687500005,"end":6008.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6008.67846875,"end":6018.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6019.41096875,"end":6025.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6025.637843750001,"end":6035.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6035.17221875,"end":6049.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6049.38096875,"end":6061.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6062.45909375,"end":6064.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6064.56846875,"end":6075.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6075.7059687500005,"end":6087.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6088.024718750001,"end":6096.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6097.52534375,"end":6098.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6101.895968750001,"end":6102.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6102.8915937500005,"end":6105.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6105.743468750001,"end":6106.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6106.030343750001,"end":6110.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6110.856593750001,"end":6116.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6116.712218750001,"end":6119.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6120.087218750001,"end":6131.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6130.80284375,"end":6140.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6132.28784375,"end":6132.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6136.118468750001,"end":6136.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6139.32471875,"end":6139.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6140.72534375,"end":6142.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6141.737843750001,"end":6147.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6148.04909375,"end":6152.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6152.807843750001,"end":6158.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6157.61721875,"end":6158.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6158.35971875,"end":6158.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6158.68034375,"end":6160.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6159.034718750001,"end":6159.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6160.97534375,"end":6174.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6167.8603437500005,"end":6168.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6175.31909375,"end":6178.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6178.964093750001,"end":6184.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6184.026593750001,"end":6185.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6185.5115937499995,"end":6188.852843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6185.528468750001,"end":6190.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6190.79346875,"end":6200.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6199.484093749999,"end":6202.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6204.63096875,"end":6206.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6208.37721875,"end":6218.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6211.88721875,"end":6211.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6211.904093749999,"end":6213.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6213.96284375,"end":6214.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6214.51971875,"end":6216.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6219.1434687500005,"end":6223.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6222.889718750001,"end":6223.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6223.817843750001,"end":6226.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6223.98659375,"end":6225.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6226.3153437500005,"end":6227.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6229.23471875,"end":6235.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6233.520968750001,"end":6243.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6243.67971875,"end":6244.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6245.097218750001,"end":6245.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6246.312218749999,"end":6260.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6260.807843750001,"end":6276.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6276.417218750001,"end":6300.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6279.454718750001,"end":6280.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6301.47659375,"end":6316.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6316.343468749999,"end":6328.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6316.37721875,"end":6316.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6317.32221875,"end":6317.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6328.66221875,"end":6328.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6328.93221875,"end":6329.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6329.03346875,"end":6329.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6329.202218750001,"end":6337.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6329.573468750001,"end":6329.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6330.653468750001,"end":6331.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6334.09596875,"end":6334.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6334.97346875,"end":6335.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6335.02409375,"end":6361.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6337.167218750001,"end":6337.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6340.74471875,"end":6344.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6361.80471875,"end":6362.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6361.93971875,"end":6362.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6362.88471875,"end":6365.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6366.58034375,"end":6372.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6372.94221875,"end":6381.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6378.274718750001,"end":6390.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6390.39096875,"end":6393.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6394.677218750001,"end":6395.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6395.436593750001,"end":6395.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6396.71909375,"end":6398.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6399.06471875,"end":6403.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6400.36409375,"end":6403.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6403.97534375,"end":6411.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6406.202843749999,"end":6406.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6407.2997187500005,"end":6410.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6411.974093750001,"end":6429.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6430.030343750001,"end":6434.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6434.8397187499995,"end":6439.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6434.991593750001,"end":6442.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6442.65284375,"end":6458.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6449.942843750001,"end":6451.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6458.92034375,"end":6462.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6462.734093749999,"end":6463.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6466.51409375,"end":6475.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6476.45346875,"end":6485.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6487.60784375,"end":6489.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6487.70909375,"end":6487.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6489.02534375,"end":6495.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6496.264718750001,"end":6501.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6502.37346875,"end":6503.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6504.044093750001,"end":6511.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6511.65471875,"end":6513.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6513.089093750001,"end":6513.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6514.0340937500005,"end":6523.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6522.91034375,"end":6523.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6523.770968750001,"end":6523.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6523.97346875,"end":6524.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6524.243468750001,"end":6524.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6524.6990937499995,"end":6524.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6524.73284375,"end":6530.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6530.97659375,"end":6530.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6532.5965937500005,"end":6554.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6556.13721875,"end":6558.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6558.972218750001,"end":6559.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6560.052218750001,"end":6565.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6565.57034375,"end":6579.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6579.5428437499995,"end":6581.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6581.97284375,"end":6586.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6586.66409375,"end":6589.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6589.060343749999,"end":6589.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6589.14471875,"end":6589.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6589.27971875,"end":6589.296593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6589.296593749999,"end":6589.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6589.93784375,"end":6600.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6601.04159375,"end":6602.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6602.25659375,"end":6602.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6602.661593750001,"end":6603.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6603.218468749999,"end":6615.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":6617.427218750001,"end":6619.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":6620.059718750001,"end":6621.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":6628.17659375,"end":6631.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6634.13346875,"end":6642.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6643.36409375,"end":6645.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6646.33409375,"end":6647.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6648.409718750001,"end":6648.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6650.097218750001,"end":6650.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6652.64534375,"end":6655.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6656.054093750001,"end":6659.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6659.749718749999,"end":6662.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6663.4959687499995,"end":6669.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6669.030968749999,"end":6671.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6671.22471875,"end":6671.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6671.49471875,"end":6678.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6679.22346875,"end":6682.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6683.64471875,"end":6691.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6692.50409375,"end":6696.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6698.190968750001,"end":6701.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6702.42659375,"end":6702.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6703.23659375,"end":6704.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6704.434718750001,"end":6707.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6707.8603437500005,"end":6709.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6709.9697187500005,"end":6710.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6710.07096875,"end":6710.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6710.155343750001,"end":6710.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6711.083468750001,"end":6717.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6718.592843750001,"end":6734.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6734.894093750001,"end":6741.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6741.458468750001,"end":6744.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6744.47909375,"end":6746.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6746.757218750001,"end":6749.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6750.604718750001,"end":6754.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6756.274718750001,"end":6763.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6763.733468750001,"end":6766.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6766.97346875,"end":6775.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6775.630343750001,"end":6781.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6781.89096875,"end":6783.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6784.388468749999,"end":6787.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6788.708468750001,"end":6804.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6805.22909375,"end":6806.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6806.528468750001,"end":6807.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6808.587218750001,"end":6810.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6811.37159375,"end":6812.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6812.384093750001,"end":6813.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6813.34596875,"end":6815.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6816.130343750001,"end":6820.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6821.243468750001,"end":6825.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6826.50846875,"end":6827.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6827.757218750001,"end":6829.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6829.3603437500005,"end":6837.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6838.13534375,"end":6841.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6841.74659375,"end":6843.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6843.95721875,"end":6846.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6846.977843750001,"end":6855.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6855.651593750001,"end":6858.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6859.026593750001,"end":6859.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6860.427218750001,"end":6860.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6861.608468750001,"end":6865.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6866.53596875,"end":6867.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6868.628468750001,"end":6883.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6883.56284375,"end":6900.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6886.19534375,"end":6887.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6901.8553437499995,"end":6906.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6907.23846875,"end":6908.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6908.55471875,"end":6920.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6920.890343750001,"end":6927.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6928.55159375,"end":6934.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6935.014718750001,"end":6935.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6935.858468750001,"end":6939.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6940.00971875,"end":6950.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6950.7928437499995,"end":6957.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6957.694718750001,"end":6960.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6961.069718750001,"end":6964.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6964.967843750001,"end":6965.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6965.187218750001,"end":6973.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6974.282843750001,"end":6977.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6979.024718750001,"end":6988.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6989.335343750001,"end":6993.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6994.85346875,"end":6996.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6997.485968750001,"end":6997.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6999.66284375,"end":7035.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7035.184718750001,"end":7035.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7035.640343750001,"end":7036.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7036.028468750001,"end":7036.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7037.20971875,"end":7044.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7044.364718750001,"end":7044.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7044.58409375,"end":7048.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7045.765343750001,"end":7045.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7046.524718750001,"end":7047.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7048.448468750001,"end":7050.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7050.878468750001,"end":7051.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7056.58221875,"end":7058.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7060.0584687499995,"end":7062.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7063.51784375,"end":7065.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7065.458468750001,"end":7066.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7067.12909375,"end":7071.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7072.3603437500005,"end":7076.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7076.96721875,"end":7079.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7079.97096875,"end":7081.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7081.50659375,"end":7088.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7088.40846875,"end":7089.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7090.61909375,"end":7096.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7097.16659375,"end":7101.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7101.840968750001,"end":7102.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7103.46096875,"end":7108.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7110.177218750001,"end":7118.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7119.4247187500005,"end":7122.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7123.10346875,"end":7127.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7128.081593750001,"end":7134.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7134.71346875,"end":7141.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7134.747218750001,"end":7134.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7142.3240937499995,"end":7148.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7149.327218750001,"end":7149.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7150.74471875,"end":7152.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7152.786593750001,"end":7153.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7154.423468750001,"end":7156.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7157.59596875,"end":7180.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7180.107218749999,"end":7181.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7181.69346875,"end":7183.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7183.634093750001,"end":7186.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7186.485968750001,"end":7187.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7189.05096875,"end":7191.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7190.620343750001,"end":7192.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7192.08846875,"end":7192.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7192.18971875,"end":7194.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7192.206593750001,"end":7196.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7196.96534375,"end":7199.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7198.04534375,"end":7201.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7199.83409375,"end":7203.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7203.884093750001,"end":7204.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7205.9090937500005,"end":7210.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7211.190968750001,"end":7215.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7216.0340937500005,"end":7218.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7219.74659375,"end":7222.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7222.59846875,"end":7225.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7226.73284375,"end":7227.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7228.18409375,"end":7231.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7231.84596875,"end":7232.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7233.90471875,"end":7238.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7239.034718750001,"end":7253.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7252.28159375,"end":7256.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7256.095343750001,"end":7260.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7261.3603437500005,"end":7268.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7269.02159375,"end":7275.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7275.61971875,"end":7280.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7281.644093750001,"end":7283.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7283.63534375,"end":7288.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7287.128468750001,"end":7287.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7288.7822187500005,"end":7305.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7305.62346875,"end":7307.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7307.665343750001,"end":7312.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7312.45784375,"end":7314.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7315.05659375,"end":7315.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7316.372843749999,"end":7318.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7319.62971875,"end":7320.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7320.11909375,"end":7320.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7321.80659375,"end":7322.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7322.97096875,"end":7323.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7323.645968750001,"end":7325.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7333.46721875,"end":7334.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7335.4247187500005,"end":7336.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7336.70721875,"end":7337.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7337.60159375,"end":7342.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7342.46159375,"end":7342.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7342.98471875,"end":7343.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7343.74409375,"end":7344.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7344.689093750001,"end":7346.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7346.96721875,"end":7348.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7349.1103437500005,"end":7349.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7349.49846875,"end":7349.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7349.83596875,"end":7350.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7350.71346875,"end":7351.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7351.79346875,"end":7352.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7353.19409375,"end":7353.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7355.77596875,"end":7357.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7358.054093750001,"end":7358.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7360.97346875,"end":7394.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7395.685343749999,"end":7411.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7411.27784375,"end":7428.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7429.064093750001,"end":7431.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7431.76409375,"end":7444.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7444.92659375,"end":7447.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7448.31846875,"end":7461.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7461.63284375,"end":7478.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7478.845343750001,"end":7486.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7486.590968750001,"end":7488.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7489.37534375,"end":7493.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7493.762843750001,"end":7494.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7494.72471875,"end":7495.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7496.007218750001,"end":7498.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7498.909718750001,"end":7500.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7501.03596875,"end":7501.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7502.385968750001,"end":7503.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7503.9384687500005,"end":7505.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7506.33471875,"end":7507.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7508.562218750001,"end":7509.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7510.401593750001,"end":7517.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7517.708468750001,"end":7521.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7522.60221875,"end":7528.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7529.335343750001,"end":7531.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7531.7822187500005,"end":7557.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7557.95534375,"end":7567.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7567.9959687499995,"end":7572.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7573.260968750001,"end":7573.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7573.27784375,"end":7581.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7582.255343750001,"end":7582.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7583.26784375,"end":7600.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7600.93596875,"end":7611.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7611.972218750001,"end":7613.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7614.38534375,"end":7619.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7619.83596875,"end":7620.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7621.92846875,"end":7623.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7623.075968749999,"end":7626.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7627.17659375,"end":7628.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7630.214093750001,"end":7632.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7632.559718750001,"end":7634.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7635.81659375,"end":7669.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7669.026593750001,"end":7677.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7678.763468749999,"end":7679.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7679.74221875,"end":7685.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7686.49221875,"end":7690.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7690.03596875,"end":7690.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7690.356593750001,"end":7690.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7690.42409375,"end":7690.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7690.93034375,"end":7691.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7691.03159375,"end":7691.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7691.048468750001,"end":7691.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7691.13284375,"end":7691.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7691.35221875,"end":7691.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7691.470343750001,"end":7691.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7691.993468750001,"end":7692.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7692.01034375,"end":7692.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7692.90471875,"end":7693.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7693.022843750001,"end":7699.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7699.249718750001,"end":7699.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7699.51971875,"end":7735.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7735.4803437499995,"end":7772.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7748.91284375,"end":7748.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":7748.92971875,"end":7749.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7772.03159375,"end":7781.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7779.878468750001,"end":7781.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7781.83596875,"end":7781.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7781.97096875,"end":7789.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7782.62909375,"end":7783.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7789.024718750001,"end":7795.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7789.69971875,"end":7790.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7791.606593750001,"end":7792.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7795.57221875,"end":7799.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7800.550343750001,"end":7803.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7803.75659375,"end":7818.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7818.842843750001,"end":7819.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7820.192843750001,"end":7821.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7821.930968750001,"end":7822.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7823.145968750001,"end":7834.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7834.6884687500005,"end":7835.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7835.26221875,"end":7849.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7849.79159375,"end":7851.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7852.87971875,"end":7856.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7857.216593749999,"end":7858.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7858.56659375,"end":7858.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7859.5790937500005,"end":7866.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7867.864718750001,"end":7875.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7875.357218749999,"end":7875.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7875.509093750001,"end":7875.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7875.89721875,"end":7883.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7884.452843750001,"end":7885.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7887.67596875,"end":7898.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7898.03721875,"end":7899.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7900.872218750001,"end":7908.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7909.03971875,"end":7909.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7910.11971875,"end":7912.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7912.51596875,"end":7913.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7913.35971875,"end":7914.220343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7914.72659375,"end":7916.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7916.987843750001,"end":7917.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7920.37971875,"end":7920.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7921.24034375,"end":7921.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7923.501593750001,"end":7924.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7925.30721875,"end":7925.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7925.999093750001,"end":7931.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7932.15846875,"end":7934.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7934.53784375,"end":7941.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7942.97534375,"end":7947.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7947.514718750001,"end":7947.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7948.32471875,"end":7949.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7950.38346875,"end":7951.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7952.340968750001,"end":7952.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7953.083468750001,"end":7970.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7970.481593750001,"end":7970.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7970.5322187500005,"end":7970.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7970.59971875,"end":7973.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7973.670968750001,"end":7982.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7983.880343750001,"end":7987.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7987.87971875,"end":7989.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7989.85409375,"end":7994.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7990.05659375,"end":7990.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7995.456593750001,"end":7996.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7997.059718750001,"end":7999.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7999.5740937499995,"end":8001.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8001.9872187500005,"end":8004.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8004.11346875,"end":8006.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8006.661593750001,"end":8007.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8007.57284375,"end":8008.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8008.821593750001,"end":8009.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8011.015343750001,"end":8011.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8012.34846875,"end":8013.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8014.069718750001,"end":8014.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8014.98096875,"end":8015.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8016.044093750001,"end":8017.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8019.99284375,"end":8020.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8020.262843750001,"end":8029.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8020.27971875,"end":8020.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8030.100968750001,"end":8032.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8033.054093750001,"end":8036.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8036.901593750001,"end":8041.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8041.964093750001,"end":8042.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8042.72346875,"end":8067.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8068.3397187499995,"end":8083.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8083.47659375,"end":8084.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8084.03346875,"end":8097.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8097.921593750001,"end":8099.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8099.77784375,"end":8101.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8101.110968750001,"end":8102.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8104.350968750001,"end":8105.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8106.71346875,"end":8108.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8109.362843750001,"end":8110.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8111.202218750001,"end":8112.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8113.581593750001,"end":8114.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8114.30721875,"end":8115.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8115.85971875,"end":8116.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8116.484093750001,"end":8118.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8118.8465937500005,"end":8119.622843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8120.17971875,"end":8120.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8123.335343750001,"end":8125.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8126.06909375,"end":8127.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8128.077218750001,"end":8128.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8129.3934687500005,"end":8130.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8130.878468750001,"end":8132.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8133.02159375,"end":8133.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8133.67971875,"end":8133.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8135.7215937500005,"end":8135.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8135.73846875,"end":8155.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8155.819718750001,"end":8159.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8160.139718750001,"end":8160.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8160.173468750001,"end":8166.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8167.024718750001,"end":8167.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8167.682843750001,"end":8169.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8169.977843750001,"end":8171.091593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8173.6903437500005,"end":8173.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8173.70721875,"end":8193.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8186.565968750001,"end":8186.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8186.59971875,"end":8186.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8186.667218750001,"end":8186.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8191.392218750001,"end":8204.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8205.465968750003,"end":8208.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8208.28409375,"end":8208.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8208.48659375,"end":8213.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8208.503468750001,"end":8208.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8213.312843750002,"end":8231.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8231.74034375,"end":8241.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8242.48971875,"end":8244.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8244.83534375,"end":8245.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8245.375343750002,"end":8252.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8253.10409375,"end":8265.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8265.844718750002,"end":8267.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8268.13971875,"end":8268.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8269.65846875,"end":8271.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8271.49784375,"end":8271.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8271.97034375,"end":8273.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8274.02909375,"end":8283.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8283.192218750002,"end":8284.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8285.43659375,"end":8288.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8892.29534375,"end":8893.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8895.164093750001,"end":8896.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8896.952843750001,"end":8898.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8908.59659375,"end":8913.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8912.579093750002,"end":8914.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8919.801593750002,"end":8919.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8919.97034375,"end":8920.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8920.797218750002,"end":8943.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8943.899093750002,"end":8944.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8944.92846875,"end":8963.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8963.609093750001,"end":8969.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8970.17346875,"end":8980.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8981.31096875,"end":8985.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8985.563468750002,"end":8986.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8986.778468750003,"end":8987.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8987.352218750002,"end":8989.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8990.946593750003,"end":8991.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8991.33471875,"end":8992.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8997.22409375,"end":8999.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8999.907218750002,"end":9007.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9008.05784375,"end":9010.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9010.656593750002,"end":9020.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9012.79971875,"end":9012.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9020.71409375,"end":9029.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9030.012218750002,"end":9031.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9032.172218750002,"end":9032.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9032.77971875,"end":9035.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9036.120968750001,"end":9037.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9037.656593750002,"end":9043.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9041.11596875,"end":9041.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9042.80346875,"end":9044.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9045.21659375,"end":9079.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9079.995968750001,"end":9120.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9120.495968750001,"end":9156.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9157.75596875,"end":9172.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9173.58471875,"end":9176.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9176.68971875,"end":9182.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9179.035343750002,"end":9179.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9181.43159375,"end":9191.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9191.792843750001,"end":9195.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9192.282218750002,"end":9192.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9194.61096875,"end":9194.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9195.67409375,"end":9201.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9201.765968750002,"end":9203.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9202.99784375,"end":9204.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9206.524718750003,"end":9209.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9208.836593750002,"end":9209.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9209.44409375,"end":9212.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9212.852843750003,"end":9216.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9215.789093750001,"end":9219.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9216.700343750003,"end":9217.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9219.77159375,"end":9220.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9220.19346875,"end":9222.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9222.31971875,"end":9244.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9245.20221875,"end":9252.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9249.336593750002,"end":9250.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9253.487843750001,"end":9255.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9256.440968750001,"end":9261.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9261.081593750001,"end":9261.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9261.402218750001,"end":9288.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9289.414718750002,"end":9289.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9291.372218750003,"end":9299.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9299.489093750002,"end":9306.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9305.98596875,"end":9306.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9306.863468750002,"end":9317.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9307.26846875,"end":9308.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9317.49471875,"end":9322.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9320.430968750003,"end":9325.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9325.915343750003,"end":9351.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9355.39596875,"end":9357.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9358.028468750003,"end":9370.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9364.25534375,"end":9364.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":9364.305968750003,"end":9364.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9364.407218750002,"end":9364.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9371.309093750002,"end":9374.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9374.75159375,"end":9374.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9374.76846875,"end":9375.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9375.98346875,"end":9376.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":9376.995968750001,"end":9377.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9377.02971875,"end":9377.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":9378.97034375,"end":9378.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9378.98721875,"end":9379.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9379.172843750002,"end":9380.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9380.809718750003,"end":9380.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":9380.97846875,"end":9381.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9382.159718750001,"end":9382.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9383.13846875,"end":9383.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9384.134093750003,"end":9387.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9387.82971875,"end":9449.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":9423.70596875,"end":9423.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9450.01409375,"end":9454.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9454.77284375,"end":9465.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9465.589718750001,"end":9467.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9465.79221875,"end":9465.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9465.809093750002,"end":9465.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9465.977843750003,"end":9466.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9468.62721875,"end":9490.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9490.800968750002,"end":9506.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9495.711593750002,"end":9496.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9506.12346875,"end":9525.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9525.765968750002,"end":9526.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9526.05284375,"end":9535.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9535.840343750002,"end":9544.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9545.47596875,"end":9547.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9547.83846875,"end":9556.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9550.352843750003,"end":9550.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":9556.64721875,"end":9556.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9556.782218750002,"end":9584.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":9584.22096875,"end":9584.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9584.37284375,"end":9605.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9605.41596875,"end":9626.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9621.480968750002,"end":9621.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9621.649718750003,"end":9621.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9626.77971875,"end":9636.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9636.027218750001,"end":9646.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9644.44784375,"end":9645.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9646.793468750002,"end":9654.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9651.41721875,"end":9652.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9655.062218750001,"end":9657.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9655.754093750002,"end":9656.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9656.395343750002,"end":9671.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9671.059718750003,"end":9671.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9671.07659375,"end":9672.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9671.49846875,"end":9672.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9672.98346875,"end":9677.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9677.77596875,"end":9678.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9678.315968750001,"end":9683.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9679.868468750003,"end":9680.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9680.492843750002,"end":9680.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9683.98596875,"end":9684.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9684.340343750002,"end":9692.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9686.98971875,"end":9687.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9687.293468750002,"end":9687.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9691.91721875,"end":9692.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9692.879093750002,"end":9706.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9698.734718750002,"end":9698.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9703.30784375,"end":9712.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9709.04534375,"end":9710.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9711.30659375,"end":9711.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9712.065968750001,"end":9714.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9713.53409375,"end":9713.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9714.47909375,"end":9714.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9714.495968750001,"end":9718.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9715.91346875,"end":9716.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9718.883468750002,"end":9722.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9723.18659375,"end":9743.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9744.06096875,"end":9750.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9750.743468750003,"end":9752.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9751.992218750001,"end":9753.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9753.34221875,"end":9755.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9754.81034375,"end":9756.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9756.76784375,"end":9757.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9757.274093750002,"end":9760.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9761.52659375,"end":9764.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9765.10409375,"end":9766.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9767.11221875,"end":9774.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9770.90909375,"end":9772.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9774.65534375,"end":9779.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9779.54909375,"end":9782.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9784.476593750001,"end":9790.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9787.04159375,"end":9787.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9790.551593750002,"end":9792.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9792.67784375,"end":9799.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9796.778468750003,"end":9796.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9797.149718750003,"end":9833.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9833.61659375,"end":9833.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9833.886593750001,"end":9835.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9834.375968750002,"end":9835.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9835.75971875,"end":9839.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9839.97846875,"end":9843.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9841.68284375,"end":9842.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9843.74159375,"end":9845.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9846.930968750003,"end":9854.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9854.035343750002,"end":9854.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9854.187218750001,"end":9854.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9855.73971875,"end":9855.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9855.75659375,"end":9859.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9860.17784375,"end":9861.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9862.169093750003,"end":9865.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9863.50221875,"end":9863.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9864.312218750001,"end":9865.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9865.493468750003,"end":9879.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9879.70221875,"end":9880.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9880.49534375,"end":9884.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9884.309093750002,"end":9889.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9888.831593750001,"end":9897.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9898.450343750003,"end":9911.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9899.277218750001,"end":9899.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9899.969093750002,"end":9900.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9909.58784375,"end":9912.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9913.148468750001,"end":9913.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9913.65471875,"end":9914.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9914.97096875,"end":9916.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9916.202843750001,"end":9920.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9919.98284375,"end":9922.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9922.446593750003,"end":9922.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9922.76721875,"end":9926.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":9922.78409375,"end":9922.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":9926.395343750002,"end":9926.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9926.88471875,"end":9948.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9940.620968750001,"end":9940.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":9940.637843750003,"end":9940.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9940.97534375,"end":9941.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9948.585968750001,"end":9950.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9950.10471875,"end":9951.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9951.40409375,"end":9961.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9961.49534375,"end":9967.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9967.637843750003,"end":9974.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9972.81846875,"end":9973.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9974.320343750001,"end":9977.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9977.864093750002,"end":9985.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9983.196593750003,"end":9987.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9988.22534375,"end":9989.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9989.84534375,"end":10002.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10000.66221875,"end":10001.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10002.36659375,"end":10005.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10003.78409375,"end":10003.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10003.969718750002,"end":10004.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10005.235343750002,"end":10020.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10019.882843750001,"end":10021.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10020.92909375,"end":10022.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10022.44784375,"end":10031.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":10033.484093750001,"end":10034.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":10035.32346875,"end":10036.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":10037.297843750002,"end":10038.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10050.71346875,"end":10057.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10063.082843750002,"end":10063.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10064.550968750002,"end":10074.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10074.945968750002,"end":10080.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10080.86909375,"end":10080.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10080.953468750002,"end":10081.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10081.155968750001,"end":10081.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10081.746593750002,"end":10089.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10094.031593750002,"end":10094.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10095.65159375,"end":10098.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10098.570968750002,"end":10100.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10100.27534375,"end":10107.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10110.653468750003,"end":10114.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10110.72096875,"end":10110.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10114.450343750003,"end":10126.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10126.00971875,"end":10130.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10130.81909375,"end":10135.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10133.97471875,"end":10135.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10135.25721875,"end":10135.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10135.44284375,"end":10142.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10144.42034375,"end":10144.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10145.48346875,"end":10148.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10147.22159375,"end":10147.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10148.453468750002,"end":10148.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10148.504093750002,"end":10148.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10148.53784375,"end":10148.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10148.605343750001,"end":10148.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10148.63909375,"end":10149.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10149.75284375,"end":10158.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10159.70909375,"end":10160.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10161.582218750002,"end":10164.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10164.82221875,"end":10164.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10165.19346875,"end":10192.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10193.003468750001,"end":10195.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10196.14221875,"end":10196.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10198.015343750001,"end":10198.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10198.032218750002,"end":10198.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10198.234718750002,"end":10198.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10198.335968750001,"end":10200.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10200.023468750001,"end":10200.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10200.293468750002,"end":10200.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10200.31034375,"end":10200.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10200.462218750003,"end":10200.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10200.546593750001,"end":10200.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10200.563468750002,"end":10205.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10206.469718750002,"end":10208.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10209.321593750003,"end":10219.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10223.51346875,"end":10223.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10224.27284375,"end":10227.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10224.30659375,"end":10224.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10227.462218750003,"end":10230.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10230.80346875,"end":10240.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10240.962218750003,"end":10247.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10248.235343750002,"end":10252.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10252.707218750002,"end":10253.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10253.618468750003,"end":10255.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10256.09909375,"end":10260.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10261.212218750003,"end":10266.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10262.69721875,"end":10262.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10262.71409375,"end":10263.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10263.16971875,"end":10263.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10266.797843750002,"end":10266.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10266.831593750001,"end":10266.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10266.848468750002,"end":10266.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10266.86534375,"end":10267.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10267.01721875,"end":10272.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10267.06784375,"end":10267.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10272.36659375,"end":10285.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10287.01409375,"end":10290.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10292.110343750002,"end":10294.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10294.962218750003,"end":10328.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10329.57284375,"end":10331.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10332.10409375,"end":10333.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10334.14596875,"end":10337.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10338.63471875,"end":10342.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10342.937843750002,"end":10343.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10343.781593750002,"end":10344.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10357.028468750003,"end":10370.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10370.832218750002,"end":10388.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10388.80409375,"end":10396.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10396.296593750001,"end":10397.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10397.44409375,"end":10403.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10404.059093750002,"end":10407.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10409.99909375,"end":10418.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10419.06096875,"end":10424.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10424.32596875,"end":10430.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10430.56971875,"end":10431.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10431.59909375,"end":10451.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10431.61596875,"end":10432.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10452.50721875,"end":10452.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10453.367843750002,"end":10454.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10453.469093750002,"end":10462.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10462.024718750003,"end":10463.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10463.172218750002,"end":10463.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10463.35784375,"end":10467.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10467.610343750002,"end":10468.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10468.04909375,"end":10470.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10470.74909375,"end":10476.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10477.094093750002,"end":10477.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10477.634093750003,"end":10486.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10488.19784375,"end":10489.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10489.88534375,"end":10490.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10490.72909375,"end":10490.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10490.762843750003,"end":10490.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10490.83034375,"end":10494.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10492.78784375,"end":10493.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10493.78346875,"end":10501.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10501.242218750001,"end":10501.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10502.05221875,"end":10504.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10505.140343750001,"end":10510.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10511.14784375,"end":10530.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10531.988468750002,"end":10534.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10534.789718750002,"end":10539.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10539.278468750003,"end":10542.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10542.34971875,"end":10544.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10544.52659375,"end":10544.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10544.594093750002,"end":10544.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10544.745968750001,"end":10544.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10546.129718750002,"end":10547.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10547.749718750001,"end":10551.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10551.85034375,"end":10571.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10571.45909375,"end":10589.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10590.899093750002,"end":10593.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10593.953468750002,"end":10611.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10611.419093750003,"end":10621.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10611.43596875,"end":10612.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10613.612843750001,"end":10613.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10621.13909375,"end":10624.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10625.222843750002,"end":10632.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10633.035968750002,"end":10635.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10635.398468750001,"end":10651.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10650.61971875,"end":10656.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10656.964718750001,"end":10658.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10658.95596875,"end":10661.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10662.48284375,"end":10663.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10663.57971875,"end":10678.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10677.282218750002,"end":10690.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10690.512218750002,"end":10691.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10691.38971875,"end":10693.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10694.157218750002,"end":10695.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10696.01346875,"end":10699.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10700.24909375,"end":10709.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10709.800343750001,"end":10711.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10711.57221875,"end":10717.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10718.06909375,"end":10719.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10719.75659375,"end":10739.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10724.937218750001,"end":10725.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10737.340343750002,"end":10738.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10739.46659375,"end":10759.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10739.753468750001,"end":10740.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10759.868468750003,"end":10783.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10772.727218750002,"end":10774.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10783.35846875,"end":10786.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10786.497218750003,"end":10786.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10786.66596875,"end":10787.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10787.003468750001,"end":10787.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10787.03721875,"end":10792.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10787.15534375,"end":10787.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10791.10409375,"end":10791.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10792.285343750002,"end":10804.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10795.79534375,"end":10796.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10804.33409375,"end":10807.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10807.86096875,"end":10813.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10813.36221875,"end":10823.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10824.044093750003,"end":10827.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10828.296593750001,"end":10832.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10832.81909375,"end":10834.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10835.097218750001,"end":10837.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10835.384093750003,"end":10835.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10836.059093750002,"end":10840.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10841.18909375,"end":10844.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10844.800343750001,"end":10851.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10851.769718750002,"end":10880.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10880.237843750001,"end":10884.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10884.254093750002,"end":10889.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10890.07596875,"end":10894.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10894.446593750003,"end":10905.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10903.862843750001,"end":10912.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10912.367843750002,"end":10919.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10919.742218750001,"end":10919.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10920.02909375,"end":10938.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10938.372218750003,"end":10938.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10939.06409375,"end":10941.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10941.257843750001,"end":10941.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10941.66284375,"end":10941.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10941.98346875,"end":10943.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":10944.88596875,"end":10944.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10944.902843750002,"end":10944.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":10944.91971875,"end":10945.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10945.03784375,"end":10945.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10952.95221875,"end":10971.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10971.88596875,"end":10977.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10978.09596875,"end":10981.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10982.58471875,"end":10986.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":10987.309718750003,"end":10987.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10987.90034375,"end":10988.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10988.457218750002,"end":10997.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10997.519093750001,"end":11012.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11013.044093750003,"end":11021.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11021.29596875,"end":11025.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11025.480968750002,"end":11047.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11047.60409375,"end":11052.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11053.122218750003,"end":11056.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11057.10471875,"end":11062.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11063.09534375,"end":11095.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11095.10721875,"end":11101.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11101.92471875,"end":11101.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11102.34659375,"end":11102.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11102.363468750002,"end":11102.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11102.380343750003,"end":11102.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11104.08471875,"end":11135.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11135.97846875,"end":11150.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11150.153468750003,"end":11159.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11160.312218750001,"end":11165.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11165.864093750002,"end":11168.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11168.800343750001,"end":11172.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11172.63096875,"end":11173.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11173.559093750002,"end":11175.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11174.774093750002,"end":11175.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11175.33096875,"end":11178.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11178.874718750001,"end":11204.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11202.145343750002,"end":11203.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11204.187218750001,"end":11204.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11204.33909375,"end":11204.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11204.37284375,"end":11204.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11204.474093750003,"end":11204.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11204.507843750001,"end":11204.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11204.54159375,"end":11221.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11221.51784375,"end":11227.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11226.934718750003,"end":11249.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11249.243468750003,"end":11253.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11253.934718750003,"end":11276.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11274.87659375,"end":11284.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11285.27159375,"end":11302.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11302.770968750003,"end":11314.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11314.02659375,"end":11320.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11320.253468750001,"end":11320.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11320.624718750001,"end":11336.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11331.00284375,"end":11333.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11336.38596875,"end":11336.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11336.976593750001,"end":11337.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11337.95534375,"end":11338.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11338.07346875,"end":11338.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11338.309718750003,"end":11338.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11338.461593750002,"end":11339.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11340.16596875,"end":11344.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11345.954093750002,"end":11346.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11346.07221875,"end":11346.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11346.105968750002,"end":11351.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11352.012218750002,"end":11353.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11353.024718750003,"end":11366.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11366.727218750002,"end":11370.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11367.75659375,"end":11370.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11370.49034375,"end":11371.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11372.042843750001,"end":11376.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11377.30784375,"end":11377.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11377.324718750002,"end":11384.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11384.73284375,"end":11389.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11390.504093750002,"end":11390.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11391.077843750001,"end":11391.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11393.355968750002,"end":11396.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11396.511593750001,"end":11398.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11400.49409375,"end":11402.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11402.67096875,"end":11404.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11405.72534375,"end":11408.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11408.222843750002,"end":11408.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11408.67846875,"end":11408.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11408.965343750002,"end":11417.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11415.85034375,"end":11421.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11423.579093750002,"end":11424.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11425.317218750002,"end":11442.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11431.122218750003,"end":11431.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11442.884093750003,"end":11443.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11443.57596875,"end":11443.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11443.96409375,"end":11444.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11444.824718750002,"end":11445.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11445.972218750001,"end":11447.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11448.419093750003,"end":11449.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11453.92034375,"end":11454.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11454.375968750002,"end":11465.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11465.90159375,"end":11470.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11468.280968750001,"end":11469.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11470.390343750001,"end":11480.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11480.684093750002,"end":11482.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11482.962218750003,"end":11482.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11483.164718750002,"end":11484.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11483.62034375,"end":11484.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11484.04221875,"end":11488.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11488.497218750003,"end":11512.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11512.476593750001,"end":11517.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11512.544093750003,"end":11513.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11517.859718750002,"end":11520.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11520.67784375,"end":11523.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11523.917843750001,"end":11538.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11536.82721875,"end":11537.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11538.683468750001,"end":11557.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11558.005343750003,"end":11574.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11571.77534375,"end":11584.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11584.75221875,"end":11612.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11611.44846875,"end":11623.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11614.55346875,"end":11617.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11617.962218750003,"end":11617.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11617.97909375,"end":11618.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11623.058468750001,"end":11645.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11643.274718750003,"end":11644.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11644.118468750003,"end":11644.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11645.97471875,"end":11667.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11667.034718750001,"end":11667.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11668.317218750002,"end":11670.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11670.51096875,"end":11677.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11678.67846875,"end":11679.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11679.218468750001,"end":11679.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11680.079093750002,"end":11681.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11681.969093750002,"end":11683.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11684.331593750001,"end":11696.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11696.009093750003,"end":11696.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11696.059718750003,"end":11696.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11696.110343750002,"end":11717.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11717.96346875,"end":11730.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11731.075343750003,"end":11732.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11732.35784375,"end":11732.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11732.89784375,"end":11733.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11733.15096875,"end":11733.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11733.35346875,"end":11733.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11733.40409375,"end":11733.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11733.437843750002,"end":11733.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11733.606593750003,"end":11733.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11733.977843750003,"end":11744.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":11738.247218750003,"end":11738.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11738.26409375,"end":11738.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11738.280968750001,"end":11738.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11738.38221875,"end":11738.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11738.58471875,"end":11738.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11738.601593750001,"end":11738.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":11738.972843750002,"end":11739.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11739.05721875,"end":11739.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":11739.27659375,"end":11740.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11740.457843750002,"end":11741.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":11741.04846875,"end":11741.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11741.149718750003,"end":11741.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11741.250968750002,"end":11741.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11745.23346875,"end":11747.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11747.69721875,"end":11749.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11749.671593750001,"end":11755.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11757.855968750002,"end":11786.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11787.285968750002,"end":11789.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11795.132843750001,"end":11801.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11801.79846875,"end":11803.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11803.40159375,"end":11804.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11805.308468750001,"end":11806.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11806.77659375,"end":11807.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11807.29971875,"end":11809.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11810.320343750001,"end":11811.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11811.737843750001,"end":11812.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11813.391593750002,"end":11814.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11815.04534375,"end":11818.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11821.019093750001,"end":11821.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11821.06971875,"end":11821.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11821.10346875,"end":11821.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11821.12034375,"end":11821.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11821.79534375,"end":11821.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11822.099093750003,"end":11822.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11823.550343750001,"end":11834.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11836.274093750002,"end":11837.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11837.82659375,"end":11837.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11837.860343750002,"end":11844.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11844.35721875,"end":11846.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11846.702843750001,"end":11850.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11851.27596875,"end":11852.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11853.250343750002,"end":11853.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11854.39784375,"end":11855.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11856.034718750001,"end":11856.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11858.262218750002,"end":11860.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11860.692218750002,"end":11864.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11872.57221875,"end":11876.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":11877.06096875,"end":11877.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11886.224093750003,"end":11898.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11886.308468750001,"end":11886.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11899.16721875,"end":11921.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11921.89784375,"end":11952.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11953.25159375,"end":11961.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11962.22909375,"end":11967.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11967.39284375,"end":11967.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11968.590968750003,"end":11970.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11970.582218750002,"end":12010.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11972.92784375,"end":11973.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11973.383468750002,"end":11973.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11977.922843750002,"end":11978.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12010.862843750001,"end":12040.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12040.05659375,"end":12040.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12040.42784375,"end":12079.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12079.594718750002,"end":12085.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12086.496593750002,"end":12088.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12088.84221875,"end":12097.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12097.937843750002,"end":12097.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12098.02221875,"end":12118.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12118.59284375,"end":12129.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12121.47846875,"end":12121.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12123.68909375,"end":12124.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12124.313468750002,"end":12124.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12129.257843750001,"end":12129.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12129.86534375,"end":12160.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":12138.015968750002,"end":12138.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12143.53409375,"end":12144.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12160.93221875,"end":12161.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12161.13471875,"end":12164.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12164.762843750003,"end":12199.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12175.782218750002,"end":12175.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12179.49471875,"end":12179.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12179.511593750001,"end":12179.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12187.61159375,"end":12188.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12188.067218750002,"end":12188.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12199.609718750002,"end":12199.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12199.812218750001,"end":12199.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12200.031593750002,"end":12200.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12200.04846875,"end":12223.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12206.089718750001,"end":12206.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12206.106593750003,"end":12206.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12208.469093750002,"end":12208.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12208.82346875,"end":12209.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12209.093468750001,"end":12209.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12223.656593750002,"end":12224.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12223.859093750001,"end":12242.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12231.33471875,"end":12231.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12240.88596875,"end":12272.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12243.484718750002,"end":12244.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12249.79596875,"end":12250.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12252.344093750002,"end":12252.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12255.70221875,"end":12256.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12257.777843750002,"end":12259.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12262.418468750002,"end":12262.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12266.687843750002,"end":12266.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12266.70471875,"end":12266.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12266.97471875,"end":12267.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12272.745968750001,"end":12278.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12279.040343750003,"end":12282.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12282.989093750002,"end":12284.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12285.26721875,"end":12287.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12287.32596875,"end":12298.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12298.26096875,"end":12298.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12298.497218750003,"end":12319.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12298.51409375,"end":12298.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12303.593468750001,"end":12304.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12304.25159375,"end":12304.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12319.72596875,"end":12355.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12323.067218750002,"end":12323.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12323.421593750001,"end":12323.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12328.93971875,"end":12329.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12329.024093750002,"end":12329.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12329.597843750002,"end":12329.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12347.19846875,"end":12347.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12347.62034375,"end":12347.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12355.382843750001,"end":12356.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12356.09159375,"end":12368.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12365.946593750003,"end":12366.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12368.86596875,"end":12368.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12368.933468750001,"end":12369.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12369.034718750001,"end":12369.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12369.051593750002,"end":12369.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12369.06846875,"end":12389.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12369.102218750002,"end":12369.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12388.440968750001,"end":12388.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12390.75284375,"end":12396.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12391.208468750003,"end":12391.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12394.364093750002,"end":12394.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12396.675968750002,"end":12398.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12399.409718750001,"end":12406.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12406.919093750003,"end":12409.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12409.46721875,"end":12424.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12418.815968750001,"end":12418.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12422.39346875,"end":12422.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12422.410343750002,"end":12422.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12424.38471875,"end":12437.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12425.54909375,"end":12426.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12429.07596875,"end":12429.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12429.09284375,"end":12429.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12429.109718750002,"end":12429.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12429.480968750002,"end":12429.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12437.969093750002,"end":12438.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12438.390968750002,"end":12455.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12442.52534375,"end":12442.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12443.672843750002,"end":12444.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12453.44346875,"end":12453.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12456.12659375,"end":12471.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12464.09159375,"end":12464.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12464.10846875,"end":12464.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12470.655968750001,"end":12475.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12475.33034375,"end":12515.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12482.65409375,"end":12482.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12482.87346875,"end":12483.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12483.008468750002,"end":12483.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12494.78721875,"end":12495.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":12496.879718750002,"end":12497.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12497.031593750002,"end":12497.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12507.59534375,"end":12507.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12507.61221875,"end":12508.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12509.164718750002,"end":12509.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12509.18159375,"end":12509.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12516.25221875,"end":12528.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12521.53409375,"end":12522.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12527.474093750003,"end":12529.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12529.11096875,"end":12529.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12529.195343750001,"end":12529.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12529.75221875,"end":12531.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12531.76034375,"end":12554.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12554.828468750002,"end":12561.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12554.84534375,"end":12557.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12559.789718750002,"end":12560.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12561.224093750003,"end":12565.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":12566.168468750002,"end":12569.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12580.984718750002,"end":12583.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12583.87034375,"end":12586.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":12586.789718750002,"end":12588.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12599.817218750002,"end":12600.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12600.99846875,"end":12603.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12603.85034375,"end":12608.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12610.667843750001,"end":12616.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12617.839718750001,"end":12619.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12619.03784375,"end":12633.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12633.53346875,"end":12640.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12641.262218750002,"end":12641.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12641.49846875,"end":12641.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12641.684093750002,"end":12642.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12642.257843750001,"end":12651.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12651.72471875,"end":12653.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12653.817218750002,"end":12655.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12656.027843750002,"end":12658.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12658.559093750002,"end":12658.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12659.082218750002,"end":12659.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12660.26346875,"end":12661.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12661.765343750001,"end":12663.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12664.144718750002,"end":12664.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12665.07284375,"end":12667.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12668.886593750001,"end":12673.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12673.594718750002,"end":12674.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12674.640968750002,"end":12675.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12675.687218750001,"end":12676.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12676.902218750001,"end":12677.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12678.336593750002,"end":12681.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12682.335968750001,"end":12682.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12683.179718750001,"end":12683.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12683.972843750002,"end":12685.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12686.453468750002,"end":12699.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12700.324718750002,"end":12701.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12701.03346875,"end":12706.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12707.817218750002,"end":12734.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12722.92034375,"end":12722.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12723.02159375,"end":12723.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12735.222218750001,"end":12739.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12739.390343750001,"end":12739.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12740.48721875,"end":12741.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12742.292843750001,"end":12743.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12743.946593750003,"end":12748.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12751.08471875,"end":12751.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12751.962218750003,"end":12752.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12752.02971875,"end":12752.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12752.29971875,"end":12752.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12752.384093750003,"end":12752.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12752.805968750003,"end":12753.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12753.09284375,"end":12756.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12755.92784375,"end":12757.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12757.649093750002,"end":12760.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12762.019718750002,"end":12764.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12764.517218750003,"end":12767.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12767.706593750001,"end":12777.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12777.730343750001,"end":12782.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12782.52284375,"end":12783.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12783.974093750003,"end":12784.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12784.969718750002,"end":12796.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12796.02284375,"end":12796.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12796.343468750001,"end":12796.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12796.664093750001,"end":12796.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12796.731593750003,"end":12797.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12797.575343750003,"end":12797.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12797.86221875,"end":12799.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12800.07284375,"end":12817.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12812.99909375,"end":12813.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12815.95221875,"end":12816.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12816.00284375,"end":12816.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12818.26409375,"end":12819.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12820.37346875,"end":12822.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12822.820343750001,"end":12823.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12823.984718750002,"end":12825.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12825.840968750003,"end":12827.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12827.950343750003,"end":12829.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12829.266593750002,"end":12830.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12830.414093750001,"end":12835.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12835.66221875,"end":12862.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12862.965968750003,"end":12876.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12876.027218750001,"end":12878.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12878.81159375,"end":12879.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12879.300968750002,"end":12886.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12885.03846875,"end":12886.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12886.962218750003,"end":12887.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12887.890343750001,"end":12891.923468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12891.974093750003,"end":12895.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12895.93971875,"end":12896.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12896.749718750001,"end":12919.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12919.969718750002,"end":12920.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12920.003468750001,"end":12925.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12925.555343750002,"end":12925.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12925.89284375,"end":12932.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12932.54159375,"end":12949.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12949.51784375,"end":12950.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12951.32346875,"end":12957.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12958.54596875,"end":12961.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12961.684718750003,"end":12964.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12964.82346875,"end":12975.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12966.44346875,"end":12967.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12975.809093750002,"end":12976.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12977.226593750001,"end":12984.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12985.12409375,"end":12987.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12987.874718750001,"end":12988.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12989.005343750003,"end":12992.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12993.325343750003,"end":12995.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12995.468468750001,"end":13009.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13009.74471875,"end":13012.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13010.16659375,"end":13010.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13012.10721875,"end":13012.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13012.343468750001,"end":13013.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13012.360343750002,"end":13012.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13014.06471875,"end":13014.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13015.60034375,"end":13029.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13029.657218750002,"end":13035.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13035.917843750001,"end":13038.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13038.820343750001,"end":13040.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13040.74409375,"end":13047.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13048.692218750002,"end":13049.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13049.957843750002,"end":13052.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13053.56909375,"end":13054.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13055.442218750002,"end":13057.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13058.09159375,"end":13087.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13087.032218750002,"end":13087.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13087.774718750003,"end":13087.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13088.21346875,"end":13088.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13088.230343750001,"end":13092.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13089.90096875,"end":13090.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13093.47846875,"end":13096.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13096.00971875,"end":13098.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13097.579093750002,"end":13105.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13105.71284375,"end":13114.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13114.285343750002,"end":13114.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13115.196593750003,"end":13117.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13117.79534375,"end":13119.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13120.664093750001,"end":13122.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13122.689093750003,"end":13123.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13123.684718750003,"end":13126.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13126.789718750002,"end":13127.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13127.633468750002,"end":13130.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13130.60346875,"end":13134.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13135.21034375,"end":13137.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13137.910343750002,"end":13145.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13145.149718750003,"end":13147.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13148.44034375,"end":13154.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13154.582843750002,"end":13155.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13155.848468750002,"end":13157.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13158.008468750002,"end":13158.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13159.13909375,"end":13189.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13189.075343750003,"end":13190.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13190.03721875,"end":13191.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13192.63596875,"end":13193.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13195.285343750002,"end":13199.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13199.48721875,"end":13207.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13207.536593750003,"end":13214.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13214.961593750002,"end":13215.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13216.227218750002,"end":13218.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13218.758468750002,"end":13219.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13219.66971875,"end":13220.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13220.614718750003,"end":13221.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13221.863468750002,"end":13222.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13223.11221875,"end":13232.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13232.71409375,"end":13236.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13237.03409375,"end":13248.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13248.289718750002,"end":13248.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13249.251593750003,"end":13254.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13254.70221875,"end":13255.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13256.052218750003,"end":13258.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13258.65096875,"end":13260.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13261.097843750002,"end":13261.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13262.27909375,"end":13263.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13263.325343750003,"end":13264.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13265.417843750001,"end":13266.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13269.180968750003,"end":13270.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13270.530968750001,"end":13271.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13273.04534375,"end":13274.142218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13274.53034375,"end":13276.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13276.977218750002,"end":13279.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13280.74034375,"end":13282.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13283.06909375,"end":13288.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13289.61659375,"end":13297.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13297.71659375,"end":13298.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13299.437843750002,"end":13299.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13300.281593750002,"end":13301.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13301.15909375,"end":13303.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13303.285343750002,"end":13305.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13305.816593750002,"end":13306.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13307.504093750002,"end":13308.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13308.870968750001,"end":13310.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13310.895968750003,"end":13311.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13311.824093750001,"end":13314.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13314.524093750002,"end":13321.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13321.949093750001,"end":13323.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13323.78846875,"end":13328.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13328.226593750001,"end":13332.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13332.765968750002,"end":13334.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13334.942843750003,"end":13336.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13337.153468750003,"end":13337.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13339.33034375,"end":13340.798468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13341.692843750003,"end":13342.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13342.840343750002,"end":13345.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13346.097218750001,"end":13347.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13348.03784375,"end":13348.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13348.949093750001,"end":13350.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13350.974093750003,"end":13354.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13354.73721875,"end":13355.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13355.83409375,"end":13358.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13359.495968750001,"end":13361.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13361.622218750003,"end":13363.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13363.44471875,"end":13365.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13365.70596875,"end":13367.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13367.74784375,"end":13368.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13368.86159375,"end":13380.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13381.332218750002,"end":13382.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13382.699093750001,"end":13383.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13385.972843750002,"end":13390.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13391.22096875,"end":13400.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13401.07596875,"end":13409.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13405.109093750001,"end":13406.610968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13406.610968750003,"end":13406.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13409.51346875,"end":13412.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13411.082843750002,"end":13416.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13416.246593750002,"end":13424.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13424.414093750001,"end":13426.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13427.19846875,"end":13428.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13429.054718750001,"end":13430.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13431.04596875,"end":13431.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13432.345343750003,"end":13433.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13433.52659375,"end":13435.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13435.83846875,"end":13438.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13438.96034375,"end":13441.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13441.64346875,"end":13444.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13445.01846875,"end":13450.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13451.02596875,"end":13458.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13459.109093750001,"end":13460.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13460.57721875,"end":13465.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13466.36534375,"end":13475.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13475.376593750003,"end":13476.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13477.55346875,"end":13478.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13479.359093750001,"end":13481.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13482.02534375,"end":13482.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13483.29096875,"end":13487.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13488.859718750002,"end":13489.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":13489.551593750002,"end":13489.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":13489.66971875,"end":13491.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":13492.16721875,"end":13497.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13511.050343750001,"end":13514.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":13514.35784375,"end":13515.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13523.26784375,"end":13523.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13523.31846875,"end":13523.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13523.36909375,"end":13523.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13523.824718750002,"end":13523.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13523.875343750002,"end":13523.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13524.027218750001,"end":13544.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13545.289718750002,"end":13556.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13556.24159375,"end":13560.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13560.645968750003,"end":13561.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13561.860968750003,"end":13564.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13565.82659375,"end":13576.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13568.020343750002,"end":13568.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13576.407218750002,"end":13595.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13596.25221875,"end":13602.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13603.89659375,"end":13606.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13606.90034375,"end":13619.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13620.315968750001,"end":13626.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13627.20096875,"end":13630.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13631.85846875,"end":13634.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13635.149093750002,"end":13639.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13639.907843750003,"end":13646.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13646.87721875,"end":13647.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13647.214718750001,"end":13652.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13652.243468750003,"end":13658.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13658.68971875,"end":13661.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13662.28409375,"end":13663.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13665.372218750003,"end":13667.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13669.55721875,"end":13670.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13671.51471875,"end":13672.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13672.172843750002,"end":13672.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13673.18534375,"end":13680.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13681.032218750002,"end":13696.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13695.848468750002,"end":13699.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13699.206593750001,"end":13704.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13704.589718750001,"end":13708.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13709.11221875,"end":13714.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13715.676593750002,"end":13719.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13719.43971875,"end":13721.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13720.114718750003,"end":13721.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13721.937218750001,"end":13723.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13723.641593750002,"end":13724.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13725.126593750003,"end":13727.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13725.160343750002,"end":13725.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13728.51846875,"end":13729.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13730.25659375,"end":13734.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13734.492218750001,"end":13739.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13735.42034375,"end":13736.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13739.655968750001,"end":13740.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13740.53346875,"end":13747.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13749.426593750002,"end":13749.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13749.831593750001,"end":13754.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13756.497218750003,"end":13760.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13760.09159375,"end":13766.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13765.69409375,"end":13767.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13767.21284375,"end":13769.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13768.22534375,"end":13771.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13771.515968750002,"end":13777.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13776.409718750001,"end":13781.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13780.324718750002,"end":13783.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13784.45909375,"end":13788.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13789.184093750002,"end":13795.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13796.355968750002,"end":13804.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13804.742843750002,"end":13806.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13807.915343750003,"end":13810.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13810.98659375,"end":13812.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13813.703468750002,"end":13823.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13824.317843750003,"end":13828.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13830.105968750002,"end":13835.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13836.636593750001,"end":13838.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13839.015968750002,"end":13856.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13857.96659375,"end":13861.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13861.864718750003,"end":13863.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13863.754718750002,"end":13864.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13865.712218750003,"end":13866.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13868.05784375,"end":13872.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13873.15409375,"end":13874.892218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13874.976593750001,"end":13874.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13875.11159375,"end":13877.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13877.980343750001,"end":13884.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13885.55721875,"end":13889.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13890.130343750003,"end":13891.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13892.05409375,"end":13898.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13899.614093750002,"end":13902.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13903.05659375,"end":13904.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13904.609093750001,"end":13915.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13915.93221875,"end":13921.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13923.00284375,"end":13926.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13926.90096875,"end":13937.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13937.86971875,"end":13939.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13940.23221875,"end":13941.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13941.88596875,"end":13943.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13944.282218750002,"end":13946.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13947.04971875,"end":13948.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13950.171593750001,"end":13952.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13952.80409375,"end":13954.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13954.69409375,"end":13959.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13960.954718750003,"end":13967.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13967.97471875,"end":13977.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13979.297843750002,"end":13985.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13986.402218750001,"end":13993.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13994.907218750002,"end":13998.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13999.04159375,"end":14011.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14011.95096875,"end":14012.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14013.250343750002,"end":14015.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14015.562218750001,"end":14017.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14018.093468750001,"end":14023.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14024.72534375,"end":14031.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14031.79596875,"end":14034.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14035.407218750002,"end":14041.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14042.106593750003,"end":14049.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14050.35846875,"end":14052.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14052.636593750001,"end":14059.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14060.16284375,"end":14062.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14063.082218750002,"end":14065.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14066.204093750002,"end":14067.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14067.70596875,"end":14070.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14070.270968750003,"end":14072.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14072.71784375,"end":14074.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14075.23221875,"end":14076.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14077.56096875,"end":14081.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14082.859718750002,"end":14084.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14085.15471875,"end":14102.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14102.805968750003,"end":14104.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14105.337218750003,"end":14106.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14107.159718750001,"end":14110.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14110.26471875,"end":14114.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14115.63096875,"end":14119.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14119.984718750002,"end":14122.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14122.39784375,"end":14123.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14123.59596875,"end":14124.220343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14125.28346875,"end":14127.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14127.224093750003,"end":14129.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14129.704718750003,"end":14131.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14131.08846875,"end":14135.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14137.21409375,"end":14137.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14139.070343750001,"end":14140.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14141.68596875,"end":14143.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14143.49159375,"end":14150.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14150.899718750003,"end":14151.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14155.55721875,"end":14181.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14181.76409375,"end":14184.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14185.628468750001,"end":14188.767218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14190.083468750003,"end":14190.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14192.46284375,"end":14195.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14197.47471875,"end":14201.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14201.524718750003,"end":14204.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14204.359718750002,"end":14207.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14208.105968750002,"end":14212.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14212.004093750002,"end":14214.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14214.585968750001,"end":14218.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14214.67034375,"end":14214.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14214.704093750002,"end":14215.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14218.112843750001,"end":14219.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14219.277218750001,"end":14220.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14221.234718750002,"end":14222.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14223.68159375,"end":14225.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14226.16221875,"end":14228.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14228.879093750002,"end":14235.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14235.24096875,"end":14237.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14237.40096875,"end":14240.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14242.66596875,"end":14243.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14243.47596875,"end":14243.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14243.50971875,"end":14246.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14246.36159375,"end":14248.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14249.21346875,"end":14249.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14249.820968750002,"end":14253.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14253.95534375,"end":14256.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14254.05659375,"end":14254.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14256.925343750001,"end":14259.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14259.38909375,"end":14264.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14260.671593750001,"end":14261.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14263.371593750002,"end":14268.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14268.012218750002,"end":14268.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14268.855968750002,"end":14275.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14275.42034375,"end":14275.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14275.808468750001,"end":14282.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14283.58784375,"end":14286.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14286.051593750002,"end":14288.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14288.633468750002,"end":14288.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14289.257843750001,"end":14290.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14291.29971875,"end":14293.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14293.695968750002,"end":14300.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14300.024093750002,"end":14309.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":14304.10784375,"end":14304.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14310.18284375,"end":14319.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14319.83534375,"end":14368.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14369.262218750002,"end":14401.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14403.130343750003,"end":14405.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14407.011593750001,"end":14409.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14410.437218750001,"end":14411.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14411.601593750001,"end":14421.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14421.945968750002,"end":14427.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14427.227843750003,"end":14429.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14430.94034375,"end":14436.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14437.184093750002,"end":14441.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14442.06096875,"end":14444.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14444.997218750003,"end":14446.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14448.16971875,"end":14453.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14454.41346875,"end":14458.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14458.969718750002,"end":14463.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14463.407843750003,"end":14469.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14470.259093750003,"end":14473.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14473.735343750002,"end":14478.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14475.743468750003,"end":14476.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14478.224093750003,"end":14480.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14480.805968750003,"end":14487.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14485.699718750002,"end":14489.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14488.16346875,"end":14489.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14489.766593750002,"end":14497.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14498.44034375,"end":14499.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14499.992843750002,"end":14501.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14501.64659375,"end":14502.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14503.38471875,"end":14506.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14508.480968750002,"end":14508.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14508.51471875,"end":14508.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14508.531593750002,"end":14510.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14510.60721875,"end":14513.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14512.78409375,"end":14515.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14517.188468750002,"end":14518.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14520.05721875,"end":14521.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14522.01471875,"end":14523.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14525.01846875,"end":14529.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14529.70971875,"end":14534.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14529.86159375,"end":14530.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14534.316593750002,"end":14548.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14548.52534375,"end":14556.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14557.469093750002,"end":14558.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14559.07221875,"end":14589.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14590.03784375,"end":14590.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14591.52284375,"end":14599.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14599.42034375,"end":14602.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14603.031593750002,"end":14608.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14608.85346875,"end":14611.485968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14612.71784375,"end":14613.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14614.81034375,"end":14621.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14623.16346875,"end":14626.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14628.884093750003,"end":14633.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14634.85784375,"end":14658.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14658.617843750002,"end":14677.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14678.327843750001,"end":14683.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14684.622218750003,"end":14685.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14685.769718750002,"end":14690.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14691.726593750001,"end":14693.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14693.54909375,"end":14695.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14696.215343750002,"end":14699.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14699.792843750001,"end":14702.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14703.62346875,"end":14703.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14704.551593750002,"end":14705.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14708.06159375,"end":14710.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14710.727843750003,"end":14713.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14714.355968750002,"end":14715.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14717.106593750003,"end":14718.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14719.08096875,"end":14728.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14729.324093750001,"end":14737.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14737.930343750002,"end":14743.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14743.364093750002,"end":14757.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14758.129718750002,"end":14769.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14770.110968750003,"end":14793.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14795.204093750002,"end":14795.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14795.96346875,"end":14805.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14805.852218750002,"end":14825.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14825.258468750002,"end":14826.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14826.97971875,"end":14829.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14829.34221875,"end":14830.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14831.164718750002,"end":14846.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14847.415343750003,"end":14871.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14871.546593750001,"end":14871.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14873.21721875,"end":14890.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14890.952843750001,"end":14893.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14894.42909375,"end":14896.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14897.348468750002,"end":14913.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14914.071593750003,"end":14918.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14919.77534375,"end":14921.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14921.867843750002,"end":14925.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14926.390343750001,"end":14934.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14935.38471875,"end":14936.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14937.93284375,"end":14941.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14942.961593750002,"end":14948.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14948.513468750003,"end":14949.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14949.37409375,"end":14954.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14955.297218750002,"end":14958.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14958.95909375,"end":14961.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14962.300343750001,"end":14963.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14964.409718750001,"end":14968.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14969.894093750001,"end":14971.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14972.914718750002,"end":14978.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14979.42846875,"end":14984.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14986.245968750001,"end":14987.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14988.743468750003,"end":14990.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14991.02159375,"end":14991.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14993.890343750001,"end":14994.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14995.122218750003,"end":14999.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14999.543468750002,"end":15002.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15003.27284375,"end":15006.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15007.54221875,"end":15009.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15010.039718750002,"end":15014.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15015.70971875,"end":15021.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15022.695968750002,"end":15026.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15026.813468750002,"end":15027.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15028.298468750003,"end":15033.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15034.154093750003,"end":15035.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15036.668468750002,"end":15037.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15038.136593750001,"end":15039.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15042.23721875,"end":15044.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15044.59971875,"end":15045.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15046.017218750003,"end":15046.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15047.097218750001,"end":15048.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15049.83096875,"end":15051.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15053.239718750003,"end":15055.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15056.26034375,"end":15060.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15061.879718750002,"end":15066.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15066.672218750002,"end":15070.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15071.07659375,"end":15073.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15074.856593750003,"end":15077.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15077.35409375,"end":15081.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15082.31534375,"end":15091.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15092.035343750002,"end":15093.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15094.00971875,"end":15099.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15100.844093750002,"end":15104.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15104.55659375,"end":15112.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15115.89659375,"end":15129.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15130.13909375,"end":15138.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15138.89721875,"end":15140.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15141.293468750002,"end":15150.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15151.70534375,"end":15153.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15155.805968750003,"end":15156.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15158.52284375,"end":15159.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15161.442218750002,"end":15174.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15174.90846875,"end":15187.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15187.93596875,"end":15200.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15201.317843750003,"end":15201.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15202.313468750002,"end":15203.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15204.50721875,"end":15204.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15205.50284375,"end":15205.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15209.56971875,"end":15210.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15210.44721875,"end":15211.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15212.067218750002,"end":15214.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15215.20596875,"end":15222.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15223.69409375,"end":15231.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15231.625343750002,"end":15232.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15232.013468750003,"end":15244.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15245.192843750003,"end":15246.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15246.593468750001,"end":15252.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15254.187218750001,"end":15255.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15255.55409375,"end":15266.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15266.94471875,"end":15267.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15268.530968750001,"end":15273.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15270.269093750001,"end":15275.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15276.15846875,"end":15281.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15282.80721875,"end":15286.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15285.034718750001,"end":15294.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15288.797843750002,"end":15289.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15293.57346875,"end":15296.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15297.15096875,"end":15299.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15301.082843750002,"end":15311.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15303.52971875,"end":15304.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15311.27534375,"end":15311.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15311.410343750002,"end":15316.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15315.173468750003,"end":15319.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15319.93221875,"end":15320.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":15320.03346875,"end":15320.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15320.489093750002,"end":15323.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15321.99096875,"end":15322.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":15322.007843750001,"end":15323.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15323.35784375,"end":15338.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":15323.88096875,"end":15326.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15326.648468750001,"end":15326.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15341.633468750002,"end":15348.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15348.51846875,"end":15356.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15357.040343750003,"end":15365.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15365.579093750002,"end":15369.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15369.375968750002,"end":15370.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15370.692218750002,"end":15376.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15381.019718750002,"end":15388.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15390.01409375,"end":15394.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15395.44784375,"end":15403.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15404.290343750003,"end":15410.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15410.16284375,"end":15414.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15415.37721875,"end":15417.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15418.38096875,"end":15420.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":15419.54534375,"end":15419.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15420.304718750001,"end":15422.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15422.59971875,"end":15425.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15426.46409375,"end":15433.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15434.817218750002,"end":15438.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15439.305968750003,"end":15445.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15445.667843750001,"end":15450.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15450.966593750003,"end":15452.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15452.164718750002,"end":15452.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15456.484718750002,"end":15457.767218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15458.543468750002,"end":15459.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15460.14659375,"end":15461.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15462.390968750002,"end":15464.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15464.449718750002,"end":15469.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15471.11534375,"end":15472.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15475.38471875,"end":15478.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15479.08034375,"end":15483.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15485.813468750002,"end":15488.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15490.53846875,"end":15492.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15492.52971875,"end":15494.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15494.85846875,"end":15495.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":15499.65096875,"end":15501.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":15504.93284375,"end":15507.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15521.082218750002,"end":15523.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":15523.664093750001,"end":15524.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":15529.064093750003,"end":15529.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15529.55346875,"end":15529.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15530.24534375,"end":15531.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15531.629093750002,"end":15534.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15541.450343750003,"end":15545.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15545.68596875,"end":15548.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15549.58409375,"end":15552.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15552.70596875,"end":15558.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15559.574093750001,"end":15561.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15563.185343750003,"end":15569.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15571.251593750003,"end":15572.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15572.753468750001,"end":15573.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15573.58034375,"end":15576.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15577.090343750002,"end":15578.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15581.055968750003,"end":15584.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15582.54096875,"end":15583.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15584.211593750002,"end":15585.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15586.590968750003,"end":15589.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15591.434093750002,"end":15601.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15602.149718750003,"end":15609.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15611.211593750002,"end":15612.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15612.578468750002,"end":15617.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15618.029093750003,"end":15621.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15621.437843750002,"end":15625.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15625.487843750001,"end":15642.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15642.902843750002,"end":15660.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15660.351593750001,"end":15660.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15661.33034375,"end":15691.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15691.199093750001,"end":15697.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15697.24034375,"end":15706.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15706.79159375,"end":15713.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15713.625968750002,"end":15731.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15732.137843750003,"end":15733.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15733.859093750001,"end":15744.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":15734.73659375,"end":15734.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15734.770343750002,"end":15735.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":15735.597218750001,"end":15735.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15738.90471875,"end":15739.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15743.12346875,"end":15748.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15749.24909375,"end":15754.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15754.78409375,"end":15765.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15765.80346875,"end":15767.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15767.828468750002,"end":15770.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15770.29221875,"end":15770.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15770.325968750003,"end":15772.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15772.87409375,"end":15773.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15774.08909375,"end":15775.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15775.60784375,"end":15796.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15796.684718750003,"end":15798.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15798.574718750002,"end":15802.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15803.434718750003,"end":15804.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15804.700343750003,"end":15809.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15809.99909375,"end":15822.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15822.58784375,"end":15823.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15823.65096875,"end":15825.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15825.81096875,"end":15834.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15834.83909375,"end":15841.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15841.757843750001,"end":15844.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15845.43659375,"end":15855.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15855.61221875,"end":15856.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15856.945343750001,"end":15857.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15857.940968750001,"end":15858.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15859.155968750001,"end":15860.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15861.062843750002,"end":15863.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15866.192843750003,"end":15879.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15880.13159375,"end":15918.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15919.21409375,"end":15920.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15921.019718750002,"end":15923.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15923.922218750002,"end":15929.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15929.71034375,"end":15930.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15930.570968750002,"end":15952.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15953.875343750002,"end":15954.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15954.58409375,"end":15956.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15957.53721875,"end":15959.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15959.579093750002,"end":15962.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15962.363468750002,"end":15966.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15966.24471875,"end":15967.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15967.88159375,"end":15971.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15967.965968750003,"end":15968.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15969.062843750002,"end":15969.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15971.08784375,"end":15972.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15972.876593750003,"end":15975.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15975.340343750002,"end":15976.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15976.96034375,"end":15981.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15982.42784375,"end":15984.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15984.452843750001,"end":16001.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16000.99034375,"end":16005.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16005.47909375,"end":16005.782843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16006.54221875,"end":16010.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16010.28846875,"end":16010.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16010.76096875,"end":16036.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16036.714718750001,"end":16045.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16046.13096875,"end":16052.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16052.290343750003,"end":16064.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16065.43596875,"end":16094.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16094.781593750002,"end":16133.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16126.067843750003,"end":16127.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16127.839718750001,"end":16127.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16128.160343750002,"end":16128.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16128.210968750001,"end":16128.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16128.261593750001,"end":16129.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16129.375343750002,"end":16129.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16131.09659375,"end":16145.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16146.33471875,"end":16149.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16149.65909375,"end":16150.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16150.80659375,"end":16164.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16151.802218750003,"end":16151.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16164.812843750002,"end":16174.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16174.27971875,"end":16178.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16178.751593750003,"end":16182.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16182.750968750002,"end":16183.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16183.999718750001,"end":16186.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16187.290343750003,"end":16192.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16192.875968750002,"end":16211.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16214.10471875,"end":16215.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16214.67846875,"end":16218.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16218.79596875,"end":16233.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16233.359093750001,"end":16234.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16234.472843750002,"end":16244.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16243.652843750002,"end":16245.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16245.829718750003,"end":16247.517218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16246.808468750001,"end":16248.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16249.137218750002,"end":16280.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16281.081593750001,"end":16286.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16286.65034375,"end":16297.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16298.20971875,"end":16307.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16307.64284375,"end":16309.110968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16309.954718750003,"end":16313.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16313.852843750003,"end":16332.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16332.735968750003,"end":16337.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16338.456593750001,"end":16352.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16359.28034375,"end":16360.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16372.93221875,"end":16373.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16374.29909375,"end":16378.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16379.26034375,"end":16385.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16385.402843750002,"end":16386.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16387.17471875,"end":16387.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16387.647218750004,"end":16400.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16401.83909375,"end":16403.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16403.357843750004,"end":16404.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16404.26909375,"end":16405.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16405.804718749998,"end":16407.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16407.660968750002,"end":16431.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16432.045343750004,"end":16436.483468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16436.73659375,"end":16437.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16437.867218749998,"end":16440.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16440.63471875,"end":16440.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16440.97221875,"end":16448.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16444.195343749998,"end":16445.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16445.849093750003,"end":16445.865968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16445.865968750004,"end":16447.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16447.840343750002,"end":16447.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16447.857218750003,"end":16447.874093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16449.62909375,"end":16455.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16455.70409375,"end":16458.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16458.79221875,"end":16459.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16460.44596875,"end":16466.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16468.427843750003,"end":16469.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16469.271593750003,"end":16471.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16469.98034375,"end":16474.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16475.093468749998,"end":16481.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16482.484718749998,"end":16483.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16483.56471875,"end":16489.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16489.90971875,"end":16494.921593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16495.309718750003,"end":16497.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16497.30096875,"end":16499.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16500.625343749998,"end":16502.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16501.90784375,"end":16504.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16502.56596875,"end":16522.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16504.25346875,"end":16504.304093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16504.67534375,"end":16504.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16504.75971875,"end":16505.890343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16505.890343749998,"end":16505.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16505.90721875,"end":16505.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16505.92409375,"end":16505.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16505.94096875,"end":16505.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16523.10284375,"end":16526.781593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16527.11909375,"end":16528.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16528.739093750002,"end":16529.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16530.983468749997,"end":16532.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16533.34596875,"end":16534.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16534.94909375,"end":16536.889718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16538.020343750002,"end":16541.327843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16541.68221875,"end":16542.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16544.044718750003,"end":16544.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16545.69846875,"end":16548.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16549.03971875,"end":16552.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16549.15784375,"end":16549.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16549.49534375,"end":16549.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16553.309093750002,"end":16556.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16556.498468750004,"end":16561.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16560.32909375,"end":16565.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16566.87659375,"end":16581.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16571.75346875,"end":16575.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16582.08096875,"end":16607.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16607.89971875,"end":16611.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16612.405343749997,"end":16614.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16615.51034375,"end":16619.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16620.15096875,"end":16621.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16621.787843750004,"end":16623.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16624.015343749998,"end":16636.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16637.279093750003,"end":16639.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16639.43909375,"end":16641.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16641.295343750004,"end":16643.219093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16643.87721875,"end":16644.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16644.82221875,"end":16645.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16645.834718750004,"end":16647.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16647.65721875,"end":16648.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16647.809093750002,"end":16654.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16655.115968750004,"end":16656.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16657.562843749998,"end":16671.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16672.46346875,"end":16673.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16673.62784375,"end":16684.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16684.664093749998,"end":16692.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":16692.08909375,"end":16692.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16692.780968749998,"end":16702.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16702.75409375,"end":16709.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16710.31409375,"end":16713.014093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16713.334718750004,"end":16715.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16715.140343749998,"end":16718.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16719.17346875,"end":16719.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16719.59534375,"end":16720.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16720.084718750004,"end":16720.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16720.101593749998,"end":16720.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":16721.367218749998,"end":16722.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":16722.632843749998,"end":16723.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":16724.320343749998,"end":16725.467843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":17936.367218749998,"end":17937.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":17937.98721875,"end":17940.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":17956.33034375,"end":17971.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":17961.848468750002,"end":17962.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17962.32096875,"end":17962.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":17971.75409375,"end":17973.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":17976.630968750003,"end":17977.592843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":17977.694093750004,"end":18001.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18001.35284375,"end":18012.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18013.350968749997,"end":18022.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18023.61096875,"end":18054.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18054.897218750004,"end":18097.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18098.80596875,"end":18110.905343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18111.090968750003,"end":18121.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18121.452218749997,"end":18123.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18124.371593750002,"end":18139.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18140.031593749998,"end":18150.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18150.983468749997,"end":18221.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18222.11159375,"end":18225.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18225.50346875,"end":18299.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18299.97284375,"end":18306.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18306.58784375,"end":18306.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":18306.638468750003,"end":18306.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18306.672218749998,"end":18306.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18306.942218750002,"end":18357.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18357.364718750003,"end":18407.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18408.36096875,"end":18408.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18409.30596875,"end":18426.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18426.92346875,"end":18458.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18458.47971875,"end":18490.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18491.402843750002,"end":18500.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18500.95409375,"end":18502.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18502.405343749997,"end":18533.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18534.012218750002,"end":18599.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18600.145343750002,"end":18635.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18635.63346875,"end":18645.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18645.184718750003,"end":18650.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18651.14159375,"end":18691.304093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18691.422218749998,"end":18697.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18698.037218750003,"end":18713.444093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18714.068468750003,"end":18719.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18720.22784375,"end":18727.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18727.551593750002,"end":18774.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18774.85221875,"end":18779.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18777.585968749998,"end":18777.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18779.965343750002,"end":18780.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18800.58659375,"end":18805.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18810.458468750003,"end":18814.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18814.896593750003,"end":18817.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18817.47846875,"end":18817.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18817.832843750002,"end":18817.866593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18817.866593749997,"end":18819.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18817.88346875,"end":18818.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18819.57096875,"end":18820.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18827.06346875,"end":18827.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18828.615968750004,"end":18845.288468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18845.54159375,"end":18849.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18849.608468750004,"end":18880.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18880.64159375,"end":18888.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18889.146593750003,"end":18986.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18937.51034375,"end":18941.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":18986.97096875,"end":18994.210343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18994.210343749997,"end":18994.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18994.514093750004,"end":19026.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19026.897218750004,"end":19029.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19030.255343750003,"end":19040.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19039.874093750004,"end":19042.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19041.79784375,"end":19041.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19044.075968750003,"end":19076.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19076.999093750004,"end":19084.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19084.10346875,"end":19090.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19091.47784375,"end":19097.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19097.06346875,"end":19098.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19097.83971875,"end":19101.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19099.83096875,"end":19103.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19104.23534375,"end":19107.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19107.779093750003,"end":19108.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19107.84659375,"end":19111.154093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19110.05721875,"end":19110.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19111.12034375,"end":19158.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19159.028468750003,"end":19200.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19200.574718750002,"end":19205.265968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19205.232218750003,"end":19227.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19227.43971875,"end":19252.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19251.874718749998,"end":19308.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19270.57221875,"end":19271.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19274.200343750003,"end":19274.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19308.32159375,"end":19315.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19309.890968749998,"end":19310.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19315.020968750003,"end":19315.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19315.30784375,"end":19333.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19317.21471875,"end":19317.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19333.73534375,"end":19336.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19336.16534375,"end":19337.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19337.53221875,"end":19342.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19340.41784375,"end":19341.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19341.66659375,"end":19341.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19341.78471875,"end":19345.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19344.450968750003,"end":19344.889718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19345.48034375,"end":19352.922218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19346.00346875,"end":19346.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19352.466593750003,"end":19356.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19356.65159375,"end":19368.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19360.87034375,"end":19361.646593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19368.98721875,"end":19377.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19377.10409375,"end":19377.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19377.74534375,"end":19377.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19377.812843749998,"end":19392.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19377.82971875,"end":19377.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19377.880343750003,"end":19377.914093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19392.47721875,"end":19393.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19393.23659375,"end":19394.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19395.26159375,"end":19405.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19407.090968750003,"end":19477.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19414.499093750004,"end":19414.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19414.83659375,"end":19414.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19414.887218750002,"end":19414.937843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19433.888468750003,"end":19434.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19434.124718749998,"end":19434.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19451.067218750002,"end":19451.944718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19476.22784375,"end":19476.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19477.341593750003,"end":19492.545968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19492.849718750003,"end":19504.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19505.03346875,"end":19524.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19524.87846875,"end":19525.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19525.570343749998,"end":19530.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19531.223468750002,"end":19536.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19532.910968750002,"end":19533.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19534.26096875,"end":19534.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19536.606593750003,"end":19542.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19540.48784375,"end":19542.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19542.090968750003,"end":19542.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19542.124718749998,"end":19542.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19543.289093749998,"end":19543.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19544.68971875,"end":19549.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19578.304718749998,"end":19580.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19585.18971875,"end":19586.219093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19596.192218750002,"end":19599.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19600.29284375,"end":19601.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":19601.912843750004,"end":19604.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19604.528468750003,"end":19605.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19607.093468749998,"end":19612.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19612.40909375,"end":19612.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19612.442843750003,"end":19612.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19612.81409375,"end":19614.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19614.670343750004,"end":19619.108468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19619.37846875,"end":19627.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19627.91721875,"end":19630.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19630.920968750004,"end":19633.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19633.739093750002,"end":19635.359093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19637.873468750004,"end":19640.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19641.50159375,"end":19647.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19647.981593750003,"end":19650.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19650.68159375,"end":19656.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19657.00971875,"end":19660.671593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19660.755968750003,"end":19669.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19669.88534375,"end":19674.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19674.93096875,"end":19681.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19682.22096875,"end":19683.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19684.33034375,"end":19686.389093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19684.63409375,"end":19685.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19687.047218749998,"end":19687.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19688.66721875,"end":19690.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19690.64159375,"end":19692.936593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19695.11346875,"end":19696.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19697.62784375,"end":19698.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19698.707843750002,"end":19699.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19699.72034375,"end":19700.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19701.255968750003,"end":19706.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19706.875343749998,"end":19709.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19709.74409375,"end":19714.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19715.093468749998,"end":19730.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19730.61846875,"end":19736.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19736.693468750003,"end":19737.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19737.57096875,"end":19745.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19744.101593749998,"end":19744.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19745.16471875,"end":19750.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19751.121593750002,"end":19756.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19756.47096875,"end":19758.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19758.614093750002,"end":19762.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19763.389718750004,"end":19792.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19793.039093749998,"end":19793.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19795.28346875,"end":19797.983468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19798.86096875,"end":19799.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19799.957843750002,"end":19800.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19801.459718750004,"end":19802.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19803.045968750004,"end":19806.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19807.028468750003,"end":19810.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19810.740968750004,"end":19816.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19812.968468749998,"end":19813.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19816.225343750004,"end":19858.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19859.20596875,"end":19862.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19863.28971875,"end":19877.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19878.59534375,"end":19880.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19880.535968750002,"end":19881.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19882.459718750004,"end":19884.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19884.569093750004,"end":19888.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19890.54284375,"end":19891.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19892.23034375,"end":19893.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19893.14159375,"end":19893.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19893.512843750003,"end":19893.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19893.630968750003,"end":19894.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19893.647843749997,"end":19901.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19896.95534375,"end":19897.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19900.14471875,"end":19900.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19901.562218749998,"end":19902.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19902.996593750002,"end":19904.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19905.08909375,"end":19906.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19906.43909375,"end":19907.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19907.90721875,"end":19909.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19910.084093750003,"end":19911.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19912.54784375,"end":19914.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19915.11284375,"end":19926.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19926.520343750002,"end":19926.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19926.58784375,"end":19926.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19926.80721875,"end":19929.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19929.94596875,"end":19939.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19940.459093750003,"end":19942.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19942.804718749998,"end":19945.639718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19947.023468749998,"end":19948.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19949.57159375,"end":19951.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19951.427843750003,"end":19954.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19954.465343750002,"end":19955.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19955.562218749998,"end":19962.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19962.58221875,"end":19962.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19962.801593750002,"end":19962.835343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19963.982843750004,"end":19965.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19965.889718750004,"end":19968.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19968.944093750004,"end":19972.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19972.97721875,"end":19975.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19976.08221875,"end":19980.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19980.942218750002,"end":19986.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19986.71346875,"end":19988.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19989.059093750002,"end":19990.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19991.404718750004,"end":19992.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19992.95721875,"end":19994.897843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19995.184718750003,"end":19995.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19995.842843750004,"end":20000.179718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20001.27659375,"end":20002.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20003.26784375,"end":20006.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20006.777843750002,"end":20009.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20010.591593750003,"end":20011.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20012.734718749998,"end":20014.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20014.97909375,"end":20021.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20021.762843750003,"end":20022.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20023.146593750003,"end":20024.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20024.952218750004,"end":20025.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20025.036593750003,"end":20026.538468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20026.538468749997,"end":20026.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20026.57221875,"end":20026.842218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20026.842218750004,"end":20026.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20026.99409375,"end":20027.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20027.01096875,"end":20043.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20027.044718750003,"end":20027.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":20031.55034375,"end":20031.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20043.34596875,"end":20043.818468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20044.08846875,"end":20044.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20045.13471875,"end":20046.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20046.788468749997,"end":20047.750343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20049.37034375,"end":20054.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20054.97284375,"end":20056.812218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20055.39471875,"end":20055.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20056.187843749998,"end":20056.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20057.47034375,"end":20059.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20059.410968750002,"end":20059.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20060.45721875,"end":20067.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20067.71346875,"end":20069.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20069.991593749997,"end":20071.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20083.96409375,"end":20087.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20087.72721875,"end":20089.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20091.01784375,"end":20091.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20091.810968750004,"end":20093.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20094.156593749998,"end":20094.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20095.03409375,"end":20102.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20103.33659375,"end":20106.272843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20107.082843750002,"end":20108.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20108.922218749998,"end":20110.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20110.42409375,"end":20112.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20113.512218750002,"end":20115.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20116.24596875,"end":20119.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20119.350968749997,"end":20123.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20124.00846875,"end":20125.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20125.544093750003,"end":20128.851593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20129.459093750003,"end":20129.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20130.57284375,"end":20131.163468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20131.551593750002,"end":20133.593468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20134.504718750002,"end":20136.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20137.76159375,"end":20138.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20138.92596875,"end":20141.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20142.098468750002,"end":20143.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20143.95471875,"end":20146.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20147.160968750002,"end":20153.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20154.265343749998,"end":20158.889093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20159.513468750003,"end":20162.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20162.483468750004,"end":20166.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20166.97221875,"end":20168.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20168.74409375,"end":20170.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20171.663468749997,"end":20188.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20188.859093749998,"end":20190.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20191.457843750002,"end":20197.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20199.068468750003,"end":20199.827843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20199.895343750002,"end":20202.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20202.966593750003,"end":20207.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20208.21471875,"end":20212.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20212.568468750003,"end":20214.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20216.078468749998,"end":20217.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20218.86284375,"end":20224.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20224.73534375,"end":20228.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20228.43096875,"end":20237.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20238.04971875,"end":20239.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20240.918468750002,"end":20251.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20251.583468750003,"end":20252.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20252.49471875,"end":20253.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20254.40159375,"end":20255.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20257.11846875,"end":20257.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20258.637218750002,"end":20260.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20260.18971875,"end":20261.843468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20261.910968750002,"end":20265.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20266.382843749998,"end":20267.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20267.631593750004,"end":20272.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20273.80784375,"end":20279.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20280.25409375,"end":20292.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20293.29846875,"end":20295.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20296.234718749998,"end":20299.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20299.84596875,"end":20317.210343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20318.32409375,"end":20319.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20320.163468749997,"end":20405.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20405.41596875,"end":20412.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20413.14471875,"end":20415.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20415.74346875,"end":20420.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20420.73846875,"end":20422.797218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20423.286593750003,"end":20433.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20433.934718750003,"end":20436.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20434.50846875,"end":20435.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20436.31409375,"end":20437.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20437.731593750003,"end":20448.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20437.765343749998,"end":20440.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20440.95471875,"end":20441.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20449.223468750002,"end":20455.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20455.60221875,"end":20456.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20457.61034375,"end":20460.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20461.710968749998,"end":20465.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20466.115343750003,"end":20471.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20472.426593750002,"end":20473.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20474.451593750004,"end":20476.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20477.67471875,"end":20479.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20480.49284375,"end":20483.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20484.00284375,"end":20487.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20488.778468750003,"end":20491.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20491.832843750002,"end":20504.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20504.725343750004,"end":20508.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20509.33221875,"end":20511.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20511.62721875,"end":20527.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20528.249093750004,"end":20539.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20538.94784375,"end":20545.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20539.67346875,"end":20539.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20539.724093750003,"end":20541.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20541.68159375,"end":20541.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20541.968468749998,"end":20553.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20551.654718750004,"end":20558.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20555.755343750003,"end":20556.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20556.396593750003,"end":20556.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20556.97034375,"end":20557.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20557.40909375,"end":20575.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20564.395343750002,"end":20568.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20568.428468750004,"end":20570.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20574.250343749998,"end":20574.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20575.161593750003,"end":20575.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20575.701593750004,"end":20576.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20576.123468750004,"end":20576.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20576.15721875,"end":20576.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20576.69721875,"end":20576.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20576.747843750003,"end":20577.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20577.473468750002,"end":20577.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20577.52409375,"end":20588.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20577.65909375,"end":20577.929093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20588.42534375,"end":20592.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20592.762218750002,"end":20595.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20595.90096875,"end":20607.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20607.257843749998,"end":20619.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20619.593468749998,"end":20620.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20620.89284375,"end":20623.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20624.301593750002,"end":20624.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20625.43221875,"end":20626.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20628.16596875,"end":20633.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":20628.435968750004,"end":20628.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20628.537218750003,"end":20628.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":20628.621593750002,"end":20628.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":20630.022218750004,"end":20630.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20633.734718749998,"end":20636.147843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20636.48534375,"end":20640.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20640.61971875,"end":20642.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20641.04159375,"end":20641.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20643.35346875,"end":20647.639718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20647.89284375,"end":20650.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20660.63346875,"end":20664.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20665.27409375,"end":20668.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20668.699718750002,"end":20672.952218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20673.42471875,"end":20674.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20673.74534375,"end":20676.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20676.107843750004,"end":20677.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20677.052843750003,"end":20678.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20678.099093750003,"end":20682.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":20681.32221875,"end":20682.233468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20682.57096875,"end":20682.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20683.262843750003,"end":20781.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20781.96471875,"end":20849.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20781.998468750004,"end":20782.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20786.36909375,"end":20786.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20849.97096875,"end":20858.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20858.18909375,"end":20858.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20858.42534375,"end":20858.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20858.864093750002,"end":20858.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20859.505343750003,"end":20888.125343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20868.63471875,"end":20873.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20888.125343749998,"end":20947.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20947.035968750002,"end":20948.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20948.824718750002,"end":20965.851593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20962.00409375,"end":20962.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20962.10534375,"end":20962.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20962.18971875,"end":20962.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20965.96971875,"end":20966.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20966.29034375,"end":20969.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20970.12096875,"end":20977.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":20978.406593749998,"end":20979.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20979.04784375,"end":20981.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":20982.65909375,"end":21007.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21007.094093749998,"end":21026.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":21026.027843750002,"end":21037.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21032.777843750002,"end":21032.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":21032.794718750003,"end":21034.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":21037.418468750002,"end":21056.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21054.630968750003,"end":21055.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21056.976593749998,"end":21071.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":21058.967843750004,"end":21059.507843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":21062.747843750003,"end":21063.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":21071.505968750003,"end":21095.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":21096.278468750003,"end":21096.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21096.97034375,"end":21132.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":21103.669718750003,"end":21104.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21133.757843749998,"end":21135.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21136.86284375,"end":21154.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":21141.04784375,"end":21141.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21154.78409375,"end":21186.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21186.62721875,"end":21255.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21255.865343750003,"end":21283.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21283.422218749998,"end":21289.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21289.36221875,"end":21292.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21292.028468750003,"end":21333.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21333.25409375,"end":21346.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21336.47721875,"end":21336.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21338.80596875,"end":21339.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21346.281593749998,"end":21349.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21349.960343749997,"end":21352.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21352.373468750004,"end":21354.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21355.03971875,"end":21357.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21357.79034375,"end":21361.654718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21361.94159375,"end":21365.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21366.16034375,"end":21374.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21374.969093749998,"end":21383.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21384.014093750004,"end":21384.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":21384.08159375,"end":21384.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21384.16596875,"end":21397.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":21384.18284375,"end":21384.250343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":21397.598468750002,"end":21397.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21397.615343750003,"end":21401.952218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":21397.68284375,"end":21397.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21402.42471875,"end":21422.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21422.65784375,"end":21431.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21433.08659375,"end":21477.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21477.72096875,"end":21482.108468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21482.108468750004,"end":21516.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21516.803468750004,"end":21532.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21532.02471875,"end":21560.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21560.880968750003,"end":21561.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21561.97784375,"end":21592.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21592.03221875,"end":21601.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21595.390343749998,"end":21595.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21600.48659375,"end":21659.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":21617.34471875,"end":21617.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21660.30846875,"end":21670.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21670.568468750003,"end":21695.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21695.965343750002,"end":21725.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21725.26034375,"end":21744.615968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21745.037843750004,"end":21778.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21778.990343750003,"end":21781.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21781.03221875,"end":21782.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":21782.83784375,"end":21782.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21782.93909375,"end":21793.654718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21793.82346875,"end":21795.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21794.34659375,"end":21794.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21795.966593750003,"end":21796.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21796.709093750003,"end":21796.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21796.96221875,"end":21805.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":21805.83846875,"end":21806.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":21807.880343750003,"end":21810.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":21810.951593750004,"end":21812.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":21812.858468750004,"end":21814.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":21814.69784375,"end":21815.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":21816.36846875,"end":21820.772843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":21821.85284375,"end":21823.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21831.859718749998,"end":21835.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21835.639718750004,"end":21835.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":21835.656593749998,"end":21835.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21835.87596875,"end":21835.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":21835.90971875,"end":21835.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21835.926593750002,"end":21837.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":21837.14159375,"end":21838.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":21840.12846875,"end":21840.803468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21840.803468750004,"end":21840.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21840.921593749998,"end":21841.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21842.98034375,"end":21842.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21842.997218750003,"end":21844.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21844.515968749998,"end":21857.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":21857.459093750003,"end":21857.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21857.81346875,"end":21867.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21868.46159375,"end":21871.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21871.684718750003,"end":21881.843468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21881.927843750003,"end":21886.990343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21887.108468750004,"end":21890.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21891.17534375,"end":21893.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21893.875343749998,"end":21902.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21904.928468750004,"end":21905.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21907.42596875,"end":21911.577218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21912.15096875,"end":21940.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21939.302843750003,"end":21939.319718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21939.319718749997,"end":21939.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21940.062218749998,"end":21940.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21940.41659375,"end":21943.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21942.50909375,"end":21943.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21943.724093750003,"end":21947.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21948.63471875,"end":21960.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21949.022843749997,"end":21949.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21960.413468749997,"end":21979.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21980.140343749998,"end":21984.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21988.08846875,"end":21988.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21991.37909375,"end":21991.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21992.40846875,"end":22005.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21997.200968750003,"end":21998.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22006.73534375,"end":22014.818468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22015.341593750003,"end":22016.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22019.49284375,"end":22020.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22021.129718750002,"end":22022.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22023.677843750003,"end":22024.116593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22025.382218749997,"end":22028.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22025.65221875,"end":22026.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22026.023468749998,"end":22026.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22026.05721875,"end":22026.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22026.107843750004,"end":22026.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22028.58846875,"end":22037.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22030.849718750003,"end":22030.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22033.83659375,"end":22034.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22035.692843750003,"end":22051.116593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22037.920343750004,"end":22038.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22049.46284375,"end":22050.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22051.116593749997,"end":22051.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22051.13346875,"end":22051.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22051.25159375,"end":22051.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22051.335968749998,"end":22065.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22051.504718750002,"end":22052.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22063.62096875,"end":22064.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22065.19034375,"end":22069.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22069.763468750003,"end":22085.507843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22086.26721875,"end":22098.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22099.34534375,"end":22102.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22103.02409375,"end":22103.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22105.45409375,"end":22107.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22107.968468749998,"end":22112.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22114.718468749998,"end":22116.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22117.469093749998,"end":22123.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22123.898468749998,"end":22130.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22131.62721875,"end":22133.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22134.293468750002,"end":22135.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22136.301593750002,"end":22139.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22139.507843749998,"end":22142.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22143.67596875,"end":22146.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22147.405343750004,"end":22153.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22154.30721875,"end":22155.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22156.60221875,"end":22158.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22158.998468750004,"end":22159.740968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22160.264093750004,"end":22161.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22161.732218750003,"end":22165.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22166.271593750003,"end":22166.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22167.756593750004,"end":22168.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22169.730968750002,"end":22177.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22178.725343750004,"end":22179.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22180.109093749998,"end":22183.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22183.484093749998,"end":22183.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22183.72034375,"end":22186.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22186.97721875,"end":22187.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22188.428468750004,"end":22243.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22193.72721875,"end":22194.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22194.14909375,"end":22194.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22243.896593750003,"end":22263.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22264.230968750002,"end":22264.281593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22264.281593749998,"end":22264.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22264.29846875,"end":22265.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22264.33221875,"end":22264.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22265.59784375,"end":22290.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22289.49284375,"end":22289.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22289.999093750004,"end":22290.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22290.302843750003,"end":22294.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22294.184093750002,"end":22294.217843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22294.57221875,"end":22312.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22299.75284375,"end":22300.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22313.387843750003,"end":22314.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22314.40034375,"end":22316.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22314.974093750003,"end":22319.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22319.69909375,"end":22321.116593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22320.036593750003,"end":22321.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22321.437218749998,"end":22321.639718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22321.639718750004,"end":22321.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22321.656593749998,"end":22335.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22333.890968749998,"end":22337.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22337.08034375,"end":22356.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22337.72159375,"end":22337.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22359.65909375,"end":22367.843468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22368.41721875,"end":22373.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22373.935343750003,"end":22397.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22397.357843750004,"end":22408.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22408.88346875,"end":22411.617218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22410.115343750003,"end":22410.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22411.53284375,"end":22414.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22413.43971875,"end":22414.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22414.70534375,"end":22414.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22414.975343750004,"end":22415.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22415.02596875,"end":22417.928468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22415.54909375,"end":22415.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22415.88659375,"end":22415.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22415.903468750003,"end":22415.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22415.920343750004,"end":22415.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22418.249093750004,"end":22420.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22421.320343749998,"end":22423.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22423.075343750003,"end":22423.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22423.56471875,"end":22423.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22423.90221875,"end":22423.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22423.919093750003,"end":22423.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22423.96971875,"end":22423.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22423.98659375,"end":22424.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22424.00346875,"end":22424.054093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22425.117218749998,"end":22425.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22426.19721875,"end":22426.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22427.395343750002,"end":22436.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22437.250343749998,"end":22438.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22440.01784375,"end":22441.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22441.94159375,"end":22442.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22443.764093750004,"end":22449.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22449.83909375,"end":22453.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22454.47971875,"end":22454.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22454.969093749998,"end":22456.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22457.044718750003,"end":22457.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":22457.82096875,"end":22459.997843750003}],"whisperx":[{"start":1340.726,"end":1348.152,"text":"請準備報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員14人以主法定人數現在開會請議事人員先讀三次會議時錄"},{"start":1352.987,"end":1378.971,"text":"立法院第十一屆第五會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第三次全體委員會議事錄時間115年3月25日9時至13時21分115年3月26日9時至14時15分地點群縣樓801會議室出席委員林月琴等15人列席委員鍾嘉斌等20人列席官員3月25日及3月26日均由衛生福利部部長石崇良及各相關主管代表列席"},{"start":1381.035,"end":1396.738,"text":"主席林昭吉委員月勤3月25日報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定討論事項審查委員謝一鳳等19人離聚兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第31條條文修正草案等72案"},{"start":1402.196,"end":1427.909,"text":"本日會議經委員陳金輝等七人說明提案指去由衛生福利部部長石崇良及教育部國民及學前健康署教育署副署長戴淑芬說明後委員林月琴等十八人提出質詢軍經衛生福利部部長石崇良及教育部國民及學前教育署副署長戴淑芬及各相關主管等即席答覆委員柯之恩等三人所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報決議說明集訊打完畢為"},{"start":1429.87,"end":1453.294,"text":"委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料則請相關機關於二週內已書面答覆委員另要求期限則從期鎖定三 兒童及少年福利與權益保障法修正草案等七十二案令則其繼續審查三月二十六日邀請衛生福利部部長及勞動部部長就在職照顧者支持體系是否完善長照三點零服務輸送與長照安排價評估進行專題報告並備質詢"},{"start":1456.535,"end":1483.557,"text":"委員會議由衛生福利部部長石崇良及勞動部部長洪森漢報告後委員林月琴等20人提出質詢均經衛生福利部部長石崇良政務次長呂健德及勞動部部長洪森漢及各相關主管等即席答覆文揚 瓊英等4人所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報決定報告及詢討完畢二 委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關員二周內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定通過臨時提案以下宣讀完畢"},{"start":1485.404,"end":1487.05,"text":"請問委員會三次議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處"},{"start":1493.919,"end":1512.214,"text":"好 議事錄確定本日會議議程有三項專題分別是邀請勞動部部長衛生福利部援助民主委員會就穩定援助民主就業改善低薪與勞動權益保障並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為進行專題報告並被質詢第二 邀請勞動部衛生福利部就開放"},{"start":1520.481,"end":1534.176,"text":"家有12歲以下子女家庭進行申請外籍家事移工政策對本國勞工就業照顧體系負擔兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套進行專題報告並被質詢"},{"start":1536.298,"end":1554.702,"text":"三 邀請勞動部 衛生福利部 行政院行政院人士 行政總署 權序部 公務人員保障暨培訓委員會 法務部就職場80申訴機制之檢討 以延會新案為例如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制進行專題報告並備諮詢這三項專題我們採綜合詢問方式進行現在介紹在場委員及列席官員"},{"start":1567.198,"end":1591.49,"text":"我們勞動部部長洪聖翰勞發署署長黃玲玉資金運用局局長蘇玉清職業安全衛生署署長林玉堂勞安署署長王厚誠"},{"start":1595.672,"end":1616.872,"text":"勞動關係司司長王厚維勞動保險司司長陳美女勞動福祉退休司司長黃維生勞動條件及就業平等司司長黃齊亞勞動條件及維生福利部政務次長呂健德"},{"start":1622.148,"end":1646.204,"text":"護理局健康照護師副市長陳春梅心理健康師副市長鄭淑欣長期照顧師檢驗計政白珊琪社家署副署長詹梅梅國健署檢驗計政劉巧金園民會處長劉赫祿"},{"start":1650.854,"end":1655.799,"text":"行政院副秘書長李國興人事處處長陳崑源中規處處長李美惠全區部法規師專門委員蕭立榮保障暨培訓委員會處長蔡憲維"},{"start":1677.576,"end":1685.903,"text":"法治司檢察官楊石宇接下來請勞動部部長報告一起報告"},{"start":1703.858,"end":1724.828,"text":"主席各位委員大家好今天會排定穩定原住民就業改善低薪與勞動權益保障並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況進行作為專案報告本部應要列席說明並聆聽各位委員的這個指教請委員不吝請指教"},{"start":1725.788,"end":1751.169,"text":"本部警就協助原住民族就業提升薪資及降低職業災害等面向之執行現況與精進作為報告如下有關穩定原住民就業原住民為就業服務法第24條第1項第4款所列政府應致力就業促進對象由各公立就業服務機構依其就業意願與需求提供就業諮詢"},{"start":1752.35,"end":1770.151,"text":"就業媒合轉介職業訓練等個別化服務為促進其就業積極運用各項就業促進措施包括提供雇用獎助鼓勵雇主提供職缺增加禁用援助民族工作機會運用缺工就就獎"},{"start":1771.232,"end":1795.106,"text":"鼓励失业劳工投入特定制造业及照顾服务业等特定缺工行业助其稳定就业并提供跨域就业津贴降低失业者异地就业障碍有关保障原住民劳工薪资及相关劳动权益凡受雇于适用劳动基准法失业单位之劳工其劳动权益受该法保障雇主"},{"start":1795.586,"end":1813.005,"text":"及应遵守该法及最低工资法相关规定另外本部也致力协助原住民提升职能在地就业为协助失业或待业劳工就业依产业发展及就业市场需求办理多元化就业导向"},{"start":1814.437,"end":1833.53,"text":"之前训练课程原住民朋友可依个别需求参训并结合民间团体办理多元就业开发方案及赔利就业计划提供在地上工纲位作为重返就业市场前之过渡及适应在降低职业灾害方面近年本部"},{"start":1835.503,"end":1852.297,"text":"勞動及職業安全衛生研究所針對職災比例較高之營造工程業製造業及住宿餐飲業原住民勞工進行深度訪談發現職業災害成因主要包括未落實防護措施"},{"start":1853.058,"end":1878.755,"text":"作業疏忽他人過失及工作環境存在危險因子早期針對特定族群職災特性分析也發現原住民勞工在營造之傷營造業之傷害失能與死亡事故多集中於年資未滿一年的勞工顯示高風險作業現場基本防護最管理及新進人員安全訓練為降低原住民勞工"},{"start":1880.855,"end":1905.267,"text":"為降低原住民勞工職災風險的重要環節為持續強化原住民職場安全與健康降低職災發生本部自今年度正式啟動為期三年的強化職場減災行動計劃優先鎖定營造業與中小微企業透過跨部會合作及公司協力推動相關減災策略如強化營造業源頭管理及現場防護機制針對"},{"start":1907.948,"end":1936.811,"text":"製造業等中小微型企業提供輔導與補助本部持續依勞動市場供需狀況掌握原住民就業及參訓中需求規劃符合產業需求之多元職類執訓課程並會與原民會合作加強各項措施促進公司部門落實禁用原住民強化就業穩定落實原住民勞工職災預防工作以降低事故的發生保障勞工權益"},{"start":1937.512,"end":1964.843,"text":"以上報告那敬請各位委員指教那這是真的第一個那第二個第二案是這個針對開放家有12歲以下子女家庭進行申請外籍以外外勤家事移工政策對本國就業照顧體系負擔兒童對家利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估及制度配套進行專案報告首先"},{"start":1965.723,"end":1985.72,"text":"因少子化及雙薪家庭補給育兒與家務負擔日益沉重影響勞工需求職場意願政府推動0到6歲國家一起養政策並大力到推動各項育兒補助措施但面對夜間零食及多元家務的需求仍有不足"},{"start":1986.681,"end":2002.826,"text":"家庭的多元需求需以多元政策组合回应让家庭有更多选择现行外籍帮助申请门槛严格可是用家庭比例偏低难以回应多数的育儿家庭需求精神性评估后规划放宽申请资格让育儿"},{"start":2003.726,"end":2019.959,"text":"未滿12歲子女家庭得依需求申請外籍包容以減輕家務負擔並支持勞工續留職場外籍包容政策定位為輔助性的家務幫手協助日常家務及生活支持並非取代專業托育服務"},{"start":2020.74,"end":2035.598,"text":"是给不同需求家庭多一种选择实务上不同家庭会依各自的需求选择并非全部都使用帮佣同时针对弱势及特殊需求家庭采差异化措施包括降低就业安定费"},{"start":2037.452,"end":2061.24,"text":"那也針對弱勢部分優先審查以兼顧公平與照顧需求經本部與衛福部廣泛了解各界意見同時影響評估說明如下對本國勞工就業而言需要家務協助的家庭表示若政策開放多數人會依據自身需求使用現有的社會支持措施那部分的家庭可能會減少一些使用的服務時數"},{"start":2062.984,"end":2077.252,"text":"那二與既有體系互補也就是外籍幫傭可以現行的托育措施互補補足夜間及臨時照顧缺口減輕主要照顧者壓力降低因照顧被迫離開職場的情形三對兒童"},{"start":2079.912,"end":2095.878,"text":"而兒童利益的影響當繁重的家務獲得分擔後家長可投入更多時間於教養與陪伴那針對影響評估部分本部和衛福部共同合作相關配套如下第一個穩定本國勞工就業與開拓勞務市場"},{"start":2097.799,"end":2123.787,"text":"透過擴大家事與托育服務媒合平台推動育兒指導員提供就業獎勵及職能培訓協助本國就業人員技能升級與穩定就業確保工作品質與勞僱權益本部將與衛福部合作強化外籍包容訓練與到宅指導並透過雇主聘請獎席職前訓練入國獎席落實法令宣導與勞僱關係的管理"},{"start":2125.788,"end":2143.208,"text":"第三持續強化育兒支持措施配合0到6歲國家一起養政策持續大力道的推動育嬰留庭以日申請包括家庭照顧假以及企業托育措施形成完整的相關的網絡那本部會與衛福部密切合作來確保"},{"start":2144.389,"end":2171.751,"text":"本國的工作者勞動力穩定發展同時也為下一代建構更完善的這個相關的環境那最大的目的是希望育兒家庭能夠安心工作續留職場家庭減壓以上報告那我們的第三份報告那是針對這個職場霸凌申訴機制是檢討那以這個顏惠欣副總行辦代表為例那如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障"},{"start":2174.229,"end":2193.575,"text":"那我們在這部分第一部分是有關職場霸凌防制相關的法制那在114年12月19號新修正的這個職安法已經徵定了職場霸凌防制的專章那相關的重點我想其實大家應該都可以查得到那第二部分是那我們關於這個職場霸凌"},{"start":2196.192,"end":2211.437,"text":"防治規劃的配套措施有包括如下第一個建置職場霸凌調查專業人才資料庫以及職場霸凌案件通報系統規劃全國職場霸凌防治的宣導教育訓練以及外部人調查培訓資源第三個積極爭取各縣市"},{"start":2214.332,"end":2229.828,"text":"政府以及檢查機構之人力相關經費第三第四點是提供中小企業聆聽外部調查專案人員之部分補助資源那我們也在跟公務人員與勞工職場霸凌的法制進行調和"},{"start":2231.529,"end":2253.289,"text":"去年在职安法修法过程中本部以多次会商考试院保训会就公务人员与劳工不同场域之职场霸凌防治机制进行调和并于研拟相关附属法规时参考公务人保障法及公务人员执行职务安全及卫生防务办法等规定使职场霸凌之申诉调查处理机制尽量趋于一致"},{"start":2254.45,"end":2271.82,"text":"職場霸凌防制著重前端預防需要勞資政三方共同努力那新法上路後我們會擴大宣傳那目前我們資安署其實也針對相關的附屬法規進行修訂那預計希望在今年年中那都可以上路那來提升"},{"start":2273.946,"end":2288.966,"text":"勞資雙方對職場霸凌預防及處理的職能形塑健康安全友善的職場文化確保健康勞動力永續發展以上報告敬敬祝大家身體健康萬事如意謝謝謝謝黃部長接下來請衛生福利部理見的資產報告"},{"start":2300.097,"end":2311.488,"text":"主席各位委員女士先生今天大院第15屆第5次未還委員會召開全體會議那麼本部呈要列席報告深感榮幸那麼以下就"},{"start":2313.561,"end":2330.655,"text":"委員會這邊所關心的幾個案幾個部分來向各位來做個報告第一促進原住民族健康縮短平均餘命差距影響平均餘命原住民平均餘命的因素非常多包括生活型態環境生物因子以及醫療資源等等"},{"start":2331.095,"end":2357.372,"text":"那麼113年原住民族平均餘命為73.23歲國人則為80.77那麼歷年原住民族與全體國民平均餘命的差距是103年的8.24歲目前已經降至113年的7.54第二原住民族113年死因排行事故第六那麼另外根據112年原住民族統計年報資料事故傷害以"},{"start":2358.414,"end":2361.204,"text":"當中以運輸事故所佔的比例為最高第三"},{"start":2362.912,"end":2390.058,"text":"本部持續推動六大策略來補食原鄉地區醫療資源以及量能包含提升醫療照護可敬性充實在地醫事人力提升公立醫療設備強化在地醫療量能強化緊急醫療後送機制等等作為來促進原住民族健康平權來建構符合原住民族文化安全的健康照護服務模式第二開放家有12歲以下子女"},{"start":2391.238,"end":2405.868,"text":"家庭進行申請外籍家事移工政策第一本部為減輕家庭育兒的負擔持續通過部件公共化托育機構以及運用準公共機制"},{"start":2407.108,"end":2432.659,"text":"擴大整體托育服務量能透過公司協力共同滿足家長的托育照顧需求那麼以下幾個數字來跟各位報告截至1215年2月底為止全國總計有537家公共化托育機構可以收托17796名兒童那麼有1387托育施托中心可以收托"},{"start":2435.159,"end":2453.906,"text":"8773名兒童其中1217家的有跟政府簽訂準公共契約等等那麼另外我想這些基本上都體現我們政府會持續來推動各項的公托以及準公托的政策第二依據兒童及少年福利權利保障法"},{"start":2454.286,"end":2471.284,"text":"對於托育人員的資格規範專業職能的培訓都有相關的規定那麼本部為確保托育人員有相關的有品質的托育服務那麼也會來包括推動記憶作為包括第一托育資訊的公開揭露第二事前把關第三仿視的這個輔導第三為了因應"},{"start":2476.701,"end":2503.82,"text":"家庭照顾的需求多元化本部也积极布建公共化以及准公共的托育服务外并且也扩大推动育儿指导员的服务以及长期照顾服务的3.0这些基本上都是属于所谓社会照顾那么都需要来进一步的增加我们的照顾服务能力同时也搭配劳动部的家务帮手政策扩大劳务市场进行社会投资本部也持续积极培养"},{"start":2505.16,"end":2522.051,"text":"托育人員育兒指導員照顧服務員等等以支持協助育兒家庭以及擴增整體協助家庭的服務量能第四因為開放家有12歲以下子女家庭申請外籍家事移工的政策本部已經規劃兩年期"},{"start":2524.432,"end":2539.157,"text":"居家托育人員多元就業的獎勵計畫持續協助居家托育人員的媒合在宅或到宅的托育服務以穩定就業或者鼓勵居家托育人員從事托育中心托育人員"},{"start":2540.137,"end":2569.239,"text":"育儿指导员照顾服务员等工作以增补社会照顾体系所需要的人力第五本部会针对照顾服务的需求增加需要更多的服务人力来持续培育托育人员并且关注外籍帮佣新制实施后对于托育服务市场的这一个影响与劳动部共同合作来提供多元就业的机会让有需求的家庭都能够获得协助第三建构"},{"start":2571.076,"end":2593.135,"text":"員工心理健康與職場保障的機制第一本部已經根據我們最新修訂的包括去年所修訂的公務人員保障法以及安慰辦法等等相關法規來建立完善的職場霸凌申訴以及調查處理機制那麼作為同仁反映與處理職場霸凌的重要依據"},{"start":2594.016,"end":2622.75,"text":"那麼在員工支持方案方面我們也推動各項的員工的協助方案此外本部也結合了13個部會共同推動全民心理健康任性計畫在職場面向強化員工協助的方案與社區的資源並且將心理健康的教育等等這些來納入那麼綜合以上我們為了落實健康台灣的願景本部將持續推動援助民族地區醫療照護服務可進行以及資源的部件的各項策略"},{"start":2624.062,"end":2640.887,"text":"逐步來縮短城鄉差距而針對開放家有12歲以下子女進行申請外籍家事移工的政策本部則辦理各項多項的措施來減輕家庭育兒的負擔並且以勞動部來持續來共同合作"},{"start":2641.587,"end":2664.722,"text":"而最後本部也將透過制度建立跨部會的合作以及資源整合來營造友善而且知識性的職場環境並且提升同仁心理健康與組織的整體韌性再次感謝委員對本部的一個指教敬致謝誠謝謝謝謝我們李建德次長接下來請行政院李國新副秘書長報告"},{"start":2676.685,"end":2696.877,"text":"主席各位委員先進大家好那今天應邀列席貴委員會進行專題報告請代表行政院列席說明為了建構健康友善職場並落實職場霸凌的防治本院依相關規定設置了院本部安全及衛生防護委員會處理相關事件"},{"start":2697.597,"end":2715.867,"text":"委員共計12人由秘書長擔任召集人其中5人為專家學者那本院院本部員工如果有遭受職場霸凌如果是非因被霸凌人申訴而知悉時本院會就相關的事實進行必要的釐清"},{"start":2717.388,"end":2738.479,"text":"有關台灣美國事務委員會原前主任委員蕙欣她是自2013年5月20日起兼任本院經貿談判辦公室副總談判代表疑似於執行職務過程受職場霸凌情勢本院在3月26日隨即依前述的相關規定"},{"start":2739.62,"end":2769.14,"text":"於同日組成調查小組並為了確保調查的公正性與客觀性調查小組成員全數指請本院防護委員會專業的外聘委員來擔任經徵詢意願後由四位具有相關專長且有意願參與之外聘委員組成並於3月27日隨即召開第一次會議就各階段的任務拟據執行的計畫如下第一階段"},{"start":2769.68,"end":2788.699,"text":"以问卷普发的方式针对相关单位进行全面的调查第二阶段确认发放的对象实施方式办理实诚及接受访谈的意愿并根据回收的结果初步会诊增点作为会诊后续深度访谈的参考"},{"start":2789.46,"end":2810.55,"text":"第三阶段安排委员与关键的同仁进行深度的访谈第四阶段会诊问卷访谈以及会议等等的各项客观资料厘清争点与事实完成初步的报告第五阶段会提交本院防护委员会就调查报告进行审议"},{"start":2811.826,"end":2833.236,"text":"全案調查及審議我們會遵循相關的法令規範來辦理同時在規定的期限內緊迫的完成調查內容還原事實的樣貌針對職場霸凌事件本院除了啟動相關的調查程序謹慎處理外也會依實際情形提供"},{"start":2833.696,"end":2854.738,"text":"相關員工協助方案的關懷措施持續加強友善職場的建構透過多元宣導或者教育訓練強化同仁及主管對於職場霸凌的意識賠利提升對於相關事件的覺察敏感度以及應變能力落實友善健康的職場"},{"start":2855.919,"end":2872.486,"text":"最後本院對於嚴副總談判代表的離世深感遺憾與不捨國家因此痛失在國際經貿領域的優秀人才然而釐清事實的樣貌建構友善職場行政院必定會努力不懈謝謝"},{"start":2874.862,"end":2897.643,"text":"好謝謝行政院李國新副秘書長報告現在開始詢答作以下宣告有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入記錄刊登公報本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘10點半截止發言登記委員如果書面質詢請於上會請提出預期不受理暫定10點半休息10分鐘"},{"start":2898.604,"end":2916.417,"text":"原則上11點半處理臨時提案 11點截止收案現在請登記第一位委員 林玉月請召委發言謝謝主席 麻煩勞動部部長我請洪森漢部長"},{"start":2925.25,"end":2953.047,"text":"林委員好部長早我想今天有很多議題要問可是我今天事實上是帶著我們的環團的託付來問一些問題國家已經宣示我們2050年的那個近年轉型賴總統也成立了氣候變遷對策委員會而且訂出203020322035的那個減碳目標在這樣政策方向下勞動部主管的勞金局"},{"start":2953.752,"end":2975.887,"text":"掌管了大概8兆元的基金我完全同意基金操作当然要重视财务报酬可是现在我们的绿色金融已经是国际趋势金管会推动我国接轨IFRS永续揭露的准则要求上市柜公司揭露永续风险完成我们的"},{"start":2977.248,"end":2997.647,"text":"溫室的氣體的盤查提出氣候轉型的計畫也就是說民間企業都被要求要做政府基金當然沒有理由事實上是落後的所以我要請教部長一個很簡單的問題今年全國環境NGO的大會環團針對勞金局提出幾項要求包括要求提升"},{"start":2998.187,"end":3026.778,"text":"基金的透明度那個揭露投資組合的那個減碳路徑明確的化石燃料的撤資的時間表請問部長為什麼勞金局會要求我們的環團對於環團要求的這個在會議上的建議來解除劣管是因為勞金局已經達成環團要求的人嗎那是不是部長可不可以解釋一下你要建議解除劣管的那個理由是什麼"},{"start":3027.911,"end":3056.082,"text":"跟文說明其實關於這個我們基金的相關的投資運用那要如何來符合國際上面其實不管是這個人權或者是環境氣候的要求其實我想我自己也跟老金局做了好幾次的討論那我想請這部分請局長來跟說明所以局長要講清楚為什麼他們要求的就你要叫人家解除列管你已經做到了嗎"},{"start":3057.095,"end":3078.091,"text":"報告委員事實上我們勞金局在永續投資的部分尤其氣候變遷風險的部分我們一直都是持續向前也積極在推動的那我們很多的措施都同步在推動那至於環境基金NGO大會所謂的項目包括他可能希望我們是不是能夠承諾"},{"start":3079.712,"end":3101.505,"text":"對特定的高碳排產企業去撤資等等的我想藉這個機會跟委員報告就國際整個趨勢來看包括國際大型的退休基金都不主張撤資所以我們其實也考慮到對勞工的影響尤其我們勞動基金是政府大型的退休基金"},{"start":3102.426,"end":3120.461,"text":"不適合直接對外宣布我們對哪個公司哪個產業去撤資那我想至於是不是解除列管因為其實不影響我們對於整個永續投資的進程那列管會有什麼困難嗎因為他不是只有講說撤資的時間表啦委員長因為這個"},{"start":3122.483,"end":3139.502,"text":"全國環境NGO大會我也很熟那當然行政部門其實常常因為這個它會有很多項的列管那其實這個列管其實也是需要跟NGO討論所以如果NGO覺得這個議題還有再討論下去的需要的話其實我想大家也可以繼續再深入討論"},{"start":3140.703,"end":3166.108,"text":"那就希望部長要講得更精準一點就是勞金局不是沒有做可是做得還不夠因為今天問題不是形式上有沒有能夠要寫進報告書裡面而是這是人民的退休基金有沒有持續鋪在一個高碳排投資風險當中這才是關鍵勞金局在永續報告書裡面確實宣示要朝我們的投資組合進營"},{"start":3168.348,"end":3182.404,"text":"排放的一個來做前進可是問題是只有宣示沒有具體的路徑只有方向沒有短中長期的目標反過來看勞金局從WBA的那個世界基準的聯盟的國際永續金"},{"start":3185.671,"end":3212.441,"text":"這個評估來看的話在全球400個受評機構當中我們是排名大324名幾乎是後段班而且有好幾個項目是零這不是環團自己講的而且這事實上是國際評比直接點出來的落差所以想問部長說面對民間企業被要求揭露被要求轉型勞金局卻明顯落後你怎麼看這個落後而且每次團體拿出這個評分表資料出來的時候我也想知道部長回應到底是什麼"},{"start":3214.003,"end":3229.933,"text":"跟我說明我們可以來再看一下這個評鑑的狀況可是我是想補充其實我認為這件事情這個議題最根本的字最關鍵的字叫做風險其實叫做風險那當然對於氣候的風險要去怎麼認定"},{"start":3235.796,"end":3259.934,"text":"國際上面也會有很多對氣候風險不斷去認定的框架不斷的演進的事情不斷演進的趨勢所以我也請蘇局長那針對國際上面對氣候風險怎麼樣去認定怎麼樣去認知包括人權風險怎麼樣去認定認知我們應該要跟上國際的趨勢我想其實關鍵是這件事情所以勞軍局其實他每天最重要的工作就是去評估判斷這個風險"},{"start":3261.295,"end":3275.175,"text":"只是哪些風險只是哪些風險要納進來可是我覺得因為在這個這個評鑑它它是不是針對金融機構的排名可是因為我們不是金融機構啊"},{"start":3278.815,"end":3302.077,"text":"問題是今天我覺得還是在基金是你們投資那你們有沒有還是投資在這些我們覺得不是這麼OK的因為剛剛那個評比剛剛有人看前一張他的標的是台灣金融機構可是也是國際氣候的那個評比因為勞金局不算是金融機構"},{"start":3304.158,"end":3324.098,"text":"好 再來我要談的是勞金局到底什麼時候才開始算因為勞金局在永續報告裡面寫得很清楚要等到上市櫃公司2029年才開始盤查跟確信才開始蒐集資料計算我們的財務碳排放照這個時程的話最快2030年才會有第一個基準數"},{"start":3327.224,"end":3335.073,"text":"我補充報告 事實上我們勞金局持續在關注碳排的相關資訊我們內部在113年就完成112年我們投資組合自營的部分的碳排放114年就完成113年"},{"start":3342.722,"end":3368.064,"text":"但是我們考量到資訊品質最主要就是因為金廣會在宣佈他要在上市櫃公司2027年完成碳盤查2029年才完成確信所以我們考量到目前的資訊品質我們在我們規劃的路徑上我們規劃在2026年也就是今年我們提前"},{"start":3368.964,"end":3387.382,"text":"因為我們經過兩年的評估檢視我們的資訊品質然後也仿佛去不同的來源去核對所以現在是2027嗎沒有我們會是維持到2029沒有沒有沒有我剛剛有報告就是說我們經過這幾年的收集跟相關事實上我們內部都有資料"},{"start":3387.602,"end":3413.586,"text":"那我們會配合我們因為我們兩年發布一次永續報告書我們會在2026年的永續報告書也就是今年的永續報告書揭露我們國內自營投資如果我們委託我們委託有117個帳戶那這個金額也很龐大我們有400多檔的股票所以我們如果說我們檢視再重新檢視後我們會一起提前在今年的2026年永續報告書一併揭露好"},{"start":3417.369,"end":3443.59,"text":"因為你看原來我們的勞金局說話我覺得這個問題很大因為現在退府基金都已經完成了財務碳排放的一個揭露所以我覺得你們不是做不到為什麼因為再來八大工股的行庫也都在進行這代表要做不是完全沒有基礎勞金局也不能再用基金規模差異我們的基礎數據是不是可靠來做回應"},{"start":3445.871,"end":3462.421,"text":"只要求就是就是要開始做了所以現在外界質疑很直接別人已經做到的事情為什麼勞金局還要等因為國家訂的目標事實上是2030年的那個減碳要到30%這就變成一個很荒謬的狀況就也就國家都已經要交成績單了"},{"start":3463.451,"end":3485.883,"text":"老金局卻還要再等說什麼時候開始計分那我辦公室已經跟老金局溝通過好幾次所以我要請教部長說真的要等到2029開始算嗎還是反正剛剛講說你2026今年就會開始嘛那就是會是比我們剛剛得到那前面我們溝通都一直溝通無效啦那不知道為什麼我還是要說明我覺得關鍵的概念是風險"},{"start":3487.223,"end":3502.355,"text":"所以怎麼看待這個氣候的風險人權的風險因為對勞軍局來說他們也需要對這麼多的勞工他們的勞工的錢拿到這個政府的基金來投資他也要對收益負滿大的沉重的責任"},{"start":3503.095,"end":3528.282,"text":"所以這個風險怎麼認知其實會關乎到勞軍局在這裡面各種基金運用跟投資的判斷那我也請他們說如果今天在國際上面對於氣候的風險的認定有一些新的看法請勞軍局我們應該要跟上那我覺得這件事情是重要的關鍵部長我覺得為什麼國際會有這樣子也關乎到我們地球的生存的量我覺得這也很至為關鍵"},{"start":3529.11,"end":3547.947,"text":"所以接下來我要談執行策略面對高碳排的產業國際上已經有很多做法很清楚了包括挪威 荷蘭 法國 韓國還有我們臺灣不少民間金融機構都已經設定投資門檻訂定了一個撤資的時程承諾不再新增對於我們的煤炭跟"},{"start":3548.812,"end":3571.729,"text":"煤電廠的一個投資並且逐步撤出所以反過來看勞金局我們辦公室在溝通的時候勞金局目前還是堅持以義核作為主要的策略我要請教部長原因是什麼你真的認為單靠義核效果是可以期待的嗎為什麼在面對高碳排投資的時候我們的那個撤資始終事實上不是一個優先的一個選項"},{"start":3574.415,"end":3589.961,"text":"我想要跟委員還是說明因為我知道勞運局的壓力他們這個擔負了這麼多的勞工然後甚至有些基金還有這個財務上面的挑戰比方說勞保基金還有財務上面的挑戰"},{"start":3591.081,"end":3617.854,"text":"所以他們其實對於收益這件事情他們的壓力是非常非常大的所以還是一樣我覺得今天有可能很多種路徑可以達到這個相關的方向可是我們還是把這個風險的認定的方式我覺得我認為在風險認定的方式大家可以做多做討論今天如果的確因為氣候的風險或環境的風險造成某一些投資的標的他的風險也急劇升高很多那這個該減少就減少"},{"start":3619.395,"end":3638.528,"text":"我覺得必須從風險的角度來看待對不一定是我們單押在某一種路徑上面某一種工具上面我要對勞金局說義和事實上是世界潮流這個來提出討論因為荷蘭的兩大退休基金ABP跟我們的"},{"start":3639.068,"end":3657.741,"text":"PFZW原本也不是一開始就是測試他們一開始是採取的的確也是義核策略但問題是和化石燃料公司義核多年之後他們最後得到一個結論是義核成效真的事實上是有限的所以我最後還是要請部長有具體的兩個"},{"start":3659.303,"end":3670.097,"text":"那個答案剛好已經講是老金局現在的義和到底有沒有要求機械改善的明確的時程然後另外一個是如果義和沒有達標的時候有沒有一個撤資的機制"},{"start":3674.47,"end":3693.09,"text":"剛剛委員提的這兩個我們可以研議但是就像剛剛提到的就我們政府基金我們基本上是不會去對外宣布我們對某個公司某個產業去撤資但是我們是一個長期財務性的投資我們在投資的流程已經納入了"},{"start":3693.91,"end":3712.905,"text":"這個氣候邊遷風險所以如果我們看到公司並沒有如預期的他所做的承諾我們當然隨時可以在投資的部分做處理所以委員的所提出來我們也會很我覺得這如果沒有辦法做的話當然外界就很難相信說"},{"start":3714.389,"end":3730.471,"text":"菊心在談的義和真的能產生效果嗎為什麼我覺得今天你說叫老虎不要吃肉然後我念佛經給你聽然後老虎就真的不吃肉嗎你如果沒有一些手段的話當然我就沒有辦法做到我還是要說我覺得我們還是會比較回到風險的概念"},{"start":3731.448,"end":3759.686,"text":"那從風險的認定來看待老金局在投資上面的合理性包括跟效益我認為還是必須回到這件事情上部長我對這件事情我會一直警惕因為這是我們國家對國人對國際社會對我們下一代的責任我相信部長投入這個議題的時間比我更長更深所以我也知道老金局同仁我很謝謝昨天趕出一份報告給我但是"},{"start":3760.687,"end":3768.159,"text":"僅對於我們的期程設定有做了一些更新我不是很滿意因為您做的事情很多我希望勞動部一個月內清楚告訴我們"},{"start":3769.062,"end":3797.555,"text":"你們的困難到底在哪裡對這些要求做不到的原因是什麼是缺錢還是缺人來執行我從立院也會盡全力來協助我會請老林舉來參考國際的做法那國際做法上也許有些會走到比較前面一點那我覺得各種的做法我們都會來參考可是一樣概念我覺得回到風險的這個事情上面那民間倡議撤資這當然我們理解民間的倡議可是從政府的基金的角度他從風險來去做他相關的決策的判斷是 部長您"},{"start":3797.975,"end":3811.042,"text":"之前如果站在我這個位置上 我相信你也會問同樣的問題啦所以我很清楚 必須以風險為核心好 謝謝好 謝謝林營 請召委接下來請陳金輝委員發言謝謝主席 謝謝今天出席的委員跟官員首先想請勞動部部長還有衛福部次長"},{"start":3825.117,"end":3828.178,"text":"好請吳副部長及呂健德次長好 你好這個是本週的一個案例他爆發了一起診所的負責人對他的女員工有嚴重的職場性騷擾我們先看一下這個影片"},{"start":3865.996,"end":3881.733,"text":"許多人在網路上流傳了兩段影片有一段是在診所的櫃檯另外一段是他在幫應該是診所負責人開門的時候發生的強行搂抱並且這個女員工不斷的退縮閃躲她還變本加厲"},{"start":3883.374,"end":3910.795,"text":"這名女員工她後來身心受創報警然後離職了但至今呢已經超過一個月這個醫師連一句道歉都沒有本案現在他是同步他有送檢調強制猥褻罪法辦但是我也想請問勞動部其實蠻多受害人你也知道啦很多這樣類似的受害人他不一定會走上法律途徑因為他這個身心煎熬會更久這些審判可能長達數年"},{"start":3912.176,"end":3925.309,"text":"所以我們想請教您的是現在部長掌握的資訊你會不會覺得這是很嚴重的職場性騷擾案件還有另外這起性騷擾案件的行政流程調查流程到底進度到哪裡了"},{"start":3926.55,"end":3953.344,"text":"根本說沒有其實我也非常關注這個案子那包括這個案子的協助來自苗栗縣的一位民意代表所以其實我們也很關注那我就知道現在這個案子其實應該已經進入到苗栗縣政府的申訴跟調查的程序裡面了那目前應該司法的部分其實也有所介入所以就程序面的部分的進度應該是到這邊那我們當然從畫面上面來看"},{"start":3954.324,"end":3974.24,"text":"因為我之前也看過好幾次你剛才播放的畫面的確這當然是一件非常非常嚴重的事情所以我自己也很希望像這樣的狀況尤其是在醫療業的現場我自己也希望我們能夠跟目的世界主管機關來討論怎麼樣盡量的從更根本性的方式管理性的方式去避免"},{"start":3974.54,"end":3993.417,"text":"好那我們就來討論根本性的方式因為您都提了這個上禮拜還沒有這個新聞我已經質詢這個議題因為衛福部被糾正一連串過去一年啊非常多醫事人員違反這個性別平等等等的事件所以衛福部被監察院糾正說他們的衛政跟這個"},{"start":3995.499,"end":4011.353,"text":"社政的串聯不夠好以至於很多醫事人員他可能已經爆發了行政調查報告也出來了結果一直持續接觸了脆弱族群或者是持續在這個職場還在上班可是很多人都不知道那我先給您看一下這個資訊"},{"start":4012.774,"end":4035.233,"text":"監察院對你提出了糾正他對很多部門都有提出糾正但是其中就包括衛福部監察院是這樣子說他說社政跟衛政的聯繫極度不足你們說已經建構了社會局通知衛生局的機制但是這邊還有一個bug要跟您討論因為一位醫事人員他有可能是在他的職場違反性工法有可能是在學校違反性教法那這樣子衛生局會不會收到通知因為我們不能每次都靠這種發公文傳統會有時間差的通知"},{"start":4037.455,"end":4064.502,"text":"我們現在已經建立那個衛社鎮的聯繫管道了所以那個已經...可是你剛好講啊因為還有教育場域還有職場的場域也有可能發生好那我們再跟教育部跟勞動部來討論一下好了我們之前是衛社鎮先連的那現在要跨部會了這是上週啦3月25號他說他要建立三方平台裡面就包括社會局包括勞動局包括這個教育局等等的那我想問一下這個系統性的借街他找你們聯絡了嗎有"},{"start":4067.797,"end":4085.738,"text":"非常感謝委員那個對於 包委員我們的一個對於整個職場性騷我想我們的態度一定是零容忍我想這是我們的基本原則那在這個部分其實在上一次委員您執行之後其實我們有跟勞動部這邊我們現在未來現在就是說現在兩個部分第一個就是說我們現在目前"},{"start":4086.698,"end":4105.513,"text":"衛生的部分我們主要市場是透過跟衛生局這邊那只要有相關的案例的話我們只我們會簽到有關職場的那個部分的話我們就跟勞動部這邊會建立一個整個相互的一個聯繫機制因為他說跟社會局的已經連接好了他已經有一個對接的然後另外上次委員您諮詢之後現在也跟教育嘛對不對那現在"},{"start":4106.393,"end":4125.709,"text":"然後我們後續我們現在也跟那個勞動部這邊因為現在有關職場的部分好像有關於像醫院啊醫院端等等這些部分的話我們也會大概什麼時間內你可以具體給大家因為全國都在看大概多久的期限以內你們這個系統性的對接會完成包圍我們在一個月之內好不好"},{"start":4126.269,"end":4154.839,"text":"一個月 沒錯 謝謝那接下來再問勞動部長一個問題因為我們知道說現在是這個縣政府他在做一個調查但是這個案件比較特別因為他等於是負責人本身就是加害人所以也會有一些關心這個事件的人他們會擔心是不是會有調查上的困難所以製作出完整的報告因為這方面你應該也蠻有經驗的可能蠻多都是有權勢的人他本身就是加害人那這個"},{"start":4155.859,"end":4184.827,"text":"你認為這個調查報告會不會有所延誤他如果是機構的負責人的話其實應該會可以到地方政府來去做向地方政府申訴來做調查所以其實就是針對這個最高負責人的狀況我們是在問您啊因為以您以往處理的經驗有權勢的人他其實也有可能會是加害人嘛但這個就有點困難了因為他必須要交由第三方比如說地方政府再請"},{"start":4186.228,"end":4200.579,"text":"這個學者啊等等但因為他本身是在這個地方工作所以他有可能會對於接觸一些這個受害者的同事或者是對於影像的處理他比較容易接觸到那這方面會不會對於你們之後的調查報告會有所影響"},{"start":4202.865,"end":4231.819,"text":"其實因為在姓名三法修法以後其實就是針對最高負責人所以我自己是認為也是因為針對最高負責人如果被設定為是加害者的潛在對象的話所以才需要地方政府來做調查就是希望能夠去盡量避免他在這個事業單位裡面的那個權利的運用的狀況所以地方政府是有權利來做各種的調閱調查的狀況其實地方政府是有權利的好 收到"},{"start":4232.219,"end":4244.004,"text":"那之後如果您有這個調查報告再希望您可以轉交給衛福部謝謝那兩位可以請先回座接下來想邀請這個保訓會的蔡處長好"},{"start":4258.992,"end":4267.403,"text":"處長我們先聽一段音檔 因為這個是疑似楊珍妮霸凌員工從前的音檔我們先聽完以後你再評價一下可以幫我播一下嗎"},{"start":4288.119,"end":4298.549,"text":"我們給你的指令為什麼你要掌握成你自己的指令我的指令是希望同仁不要浪費時間的指令我有這樣講過你嗎我可以告你耶"},{"start":4308.559,"end":4335.626,"text":"我想請教保訓會因為根據你們公務人員保障法的定義其實勞動部長也在場勞動部長也蠻在意這個議題的職場霸凌是指機關人員假借權勢逾越必要的範圍持續的以威脅侮辱或孤立的方式造成敵意性的工作環境以致於公務員身心受創那條文裡面也特別講到雖然他有強調持續性可是情節重大的不在此現那你認為這一段應當"},{"start":4337.987,"end":4340.678,"text":"在你們公務人員保障法裡面算不算是一個80"},{"start":4343.953,"end":4368.831,"text":"公務員報告我們關於職場霸凌的定義目前是定義在公務員保障法第19條第二項跟安慰辦法上面其實他對於職場霸凌的定義都有做一些客觀性的描述那至於這些法令上面的條文規定在具體個案事實上面怎麼樣去含設那這個我們在制度上是設計由包含了外部學者專家加入了調查小組來進行調查"},{"start":4370.692,"end":4400.138,"text":"那之所以會有這樣的設計也是避免讓政府機關的人可以去可能會對這件事情有左右的空間或者是對於過去的組織文化有可能有認知上面的誤區那也因此對於剛剛播放的這樣的一個殷檔的這樣一個個案事實據我們的瞭解應該相關的機關已經有成立調查小組已經開始了已經開始調查在進行調查那我們可能不適合在這個地方去做評價這樣但這邊我是要提醒你"},{"start":4400.638,"end":4423.938,"text":"之後你也說了一定要第三方公正的來做調查嗎我們也擔心中間會被掩滅證據等等的我們來看這個是當時行政院114年1月2號提交了一個專欄報告當時勞動部有霸凌衛福部也有行政院還有兩個處長他被公有投訴就院本部就出現了霸凌的"},{"start":4424.318,"end":4445.462,"text":"事件所以當時呢引用賴總統的話就說一定要杜絕職場各種形式的霸凌落實健康的工作環境但今天為什麼會在這裡開這個委員會就是因為我們發生了談判副代表揭露遭到長期的忽視沒有人重視職場霸凌如果連行政院高層都疑似帶頭對照這個報告承諾落實賴總統指示我是覺得非常的諷刺啦那"},{"start":4451.244,"end":4477.205,"text":"這邊你剛有提到第19條你講得非常好如果發生這個事件置之不理主管應該要受罰但我想問您假使這個事件的受害者是談判副代表行政院體系政務委員的主管是誰誰該負起這個監督還有懲罰的責任因為如果職場已經知悉主管知悉沒有採取具體的有效措施是要依法懲處的是誰"},{"start":4480.248,"end":4509.588,"text":"是跟委員報告依照我們公務人員職應職務安全衛生防護辦法第35條第一項第二款的規定就是當機關在接獲到申訴的時候其實他應該要立即採取有效的這個措施那縱使是未接獲申訴也是應該要去採取立即有效的措施政務委員的主管是誰是秘書長是副院長還是院長"},{"start":4510.728,"end":4527.799,"text":"是以本案來說應該是行政院行政院院長好主管是行政院院長我們會說他是一個機關的責任所以應該是行政院要去負責所以最後如果我們出來結果行政院有疏失您會說是行政院有疏失是嗎"},{"start":4529.938,"end":4546.462,"text":"這個必須要看因為據我們所知行政院在接獲到可能接獲到這樣的可能有 沒關係我先給你看時間序我整理時間序給您看我也希望您好好的去回顧一下近期的新聞3月12號是媒體披露我們的副談判代表他因病過世"},{"start":4552.483,"end":4556.286,"text":"3月12號之後呢這個我們副院長啊就出來說非常的難過哽咽稱呼他是最佳的戰友這件事結束之後呢就有他在因病離職的離職信很長你也看過流了出來流到媒體上然後再加上呢他的前同事就匿名到上面揭露說"},{"start":4576.56,"end":4579.925,"text":"他長期壓力業務壓力並且會議頻頻遭受否定斥責不同專業的觀點或者是遭長官繞過指揮包括赴美談判不帶他啦休息喝真奶排擠他"},{"start":4591.843,"end":4617.125,"text":"隔絕這個關鍵談判資訊也不給他然後專業被踐踏職責被推諉多次建言被忽視無視最後他積勞成疾想要請辭的時候連辭呈都不批啊直到他最後真的是住院的時候才寫下沉痛的離職書但是這些離職書跟這個匿名的爆料披露之後行政院發言人是表示過去未曾聽聞"},{"start":4618.106,"end":4635.157,"text":"但還是很遺憾很難過失去了一個很優秀的同事我跟你更新一個最新的資訊昨天王玉敏委員在總質詢的時候直接問卓院長什麼時候收到這個沉痛的離職信結果他回答2月19號當時他的同仁拿手機的內容給他看所以院長已閱讀同日信件寄達院長辦公室"},{"start":4645.203,"end":4653.549,"text":"以你現在了解的資訊你說行政院要負起調查責任請問你現在收到的日期是2月19日嗎因為他2月19日就收到簡訊啊"},{"start":4656.34,"end":4683.61,"text":"各位委員報告這個各機關非因申訴而窒息到可能有這場霸凌的情形通常會需要一段的時間去瞭解一下因為它情況有很多種有包括是在媒體上面的爆料也有可能是社群媒體上的文章所以對於機關來說它就是有必要去了解一下它是不是屬於一個具體事實至少要做一個初步瞭解"},{"start":4684.15,"end":4695.258,"text":"那至於在行政院在從成立調查小組之前的這段過程他們怎麼樣去進行的這個進程這可能要由行政院來說明可能會比較妥適那成立調查小組是什麼時候行政院要說明嗎人事處長副秘書長副秘書長"},{"start":4715.816,"end":4734.489,"text":"跟委員報告我們在3月26號之夕的時候就成立了調查小組來做釐清事實的動作所以你們2月19收到這個離職信他裡面說他長期被忽視的時候你們還沒開始我們不知道你不知道對我不知道但是卓院長知道"},{"start":4736.655,"end":4758.968,"text":"昨天有回答王育民委員他是在2月19號的時候辦公室的幕僚轉資這個訊息給院長院長那時候是希望表達關心然後要請他好好休息因為請他好好養病接下來繼續為國服務但是那是在過年期間2月19號是在過年"},{"start":4761.149,"end":4785.639,"text":"然後過年完了以後的話我們緊接著就228連假再來再表示關心的時候3月初得知副總檯面廖友病情直轉直下大概院長昨天也講述了這個過程我們真正知道的時候是因為3月26號的那個Tweet的訊息出來以後我們才知道的"},{"start":4785.759,"end":4802.673,"text":"我跟你說你看這個時間序3月26號已經被披露他業務有長期的壓力你才知道對不對發言人表示過去未聽說但其實2月19你們收到他的離職簡訊的時候內容就跟26號是有點重複的我要跟委員強調的時候因為我們真的沒有沒有任何的公文完反的記錄那個純粹就是他傳給院長幕僚的簡訊"},{"start":4816.243,"end":4819.065,"text":"沒有公文 我們保訊會回來因為你剛剛講得很清楚嘛 你剛剛的意思是說當主管知悉的時候 可以先內部詢問一下是需要公文的嗎"},{"start":4833.968,"end":4851.087,"text":"公務員報告那個知曦可能有職場霸凌情勢的方式真的有很多種不一定是單純是可能是曾經信也有可能是社群媒體上面的發文好沒關係我希望保訊會處長今天可以把這個資訊帶回去因為全國的公務員"},{"start":4852.168,"end":4873.317,"text":"還有社會大眾都在看你們接下來的作為可不可以勿往勿縱剛剛我們從這個時間軸還有網路上的他同事是義憤填膺出來說覺得非常的不捨那在核對他之前就已經送給院長的簡訊內容其實他是早在知情的狀況下就代呼職守去不處理那"},{"start":4875.298,"end":4895.339,"text":"之後我們要看到保訓會的作為看是院長要負責還是副院長要負責還是秘書長要負責因為這個是行政院的霸凌世界根本就是對我們法律尊嚴的一個挑戰所以我也希望你現在找的外部專家可以公正客觀啟動調查最後我們要看到一個全民可以信服的報告好嗎"},{"start":4900.621,"end":4906.267,"text":"我們可能沒有那麼相信行政院的報告我是說請保訓會回答保訓會不會有報告啊好您說您說那我們針對這次調查的時候我們為了讓他公正客觀我們的調查委員都是外部委員沒有內部委員"},{"start":4919.855,"end":4927.49,"text":"那全國的公務員都在看今天的資訊他們也希望知道說最後的結果如何謝謝主席謝謝陳金輝委員接下來請邱惠如委員發言"},{"start":4941.918,"end":4948.652,"text":"主席還有各位委員同仁各位政府部門的同仁大家好我們有請勞動部長洪部長謝謝請洪部長"},{"start":4958.103,"end":4987.017,"text":"邱委員好是部長好我今天呢是想跟你交流呢最低服務年限計違約金條款那我想問部長請問您知道其實我們醫療機構也好護理機構也好長照機構也好常常使出最低服務年限計違約金條款來約束護理人員的離職自由請問一下部長有掌握這件事嗎我知道那您對這件事目前的看法是如何"},{"start":4989.119,"end":5007.717,"text":"這勞基法有相關的規定是勞基法規範在第15條之一那事實上部長覺得那相關的規定那您的看法呢這個有規定我們都知道但是您的看法當然法的規定就應該落實但確實它應該有一些相關的前提"},{"start":5008.557,"end":5037.316,"text":"相關前提我先跟部長建構一些基本的觀念就是我們護理人員他如果受僱於醫療機構也好長照機構也好護理機構也好那通常都跟醫院或者是護理長照機構簽訂一個不定期勞動契約那不定期勞動契約如果護理人員想離職那其實按照勞基法的規定其實只要預告僱主其實就可以離職了我想這個概念我想這個基本概念我們應該是都有掌握"},{"start":5042.5,"end":5065.897,"text":"現在醫院因為大家也知道說那個護理人員荒非常嚴重所以這些機構其實很害怕護理人員離職所以他就會寄出一個最低服務年限寄違約金的條款來約束護理人員的自由那護理人員其實比較單純比較單純比較涉世未深他們就覺得說那我們簽了這個違約金條款我們如果想要"},{"start":5066.718,"end":5080.392,"text":"在這個條款所約定的期限以內離職例如說條款提到說護理人員你應該在機構任職兩年如果你期限戒之前離職的話你就會被科以違約金那我們護理人員比較單純比較涉事衛生他們就會覺得說那我們既然簽了違約金條款那我們真的"},{"start":5087.979,"end":5115.614,"text":"在期限戒之前我們真的做不下去所以想離職了那我們也只好為了求順利離職也只好認賠了事這樣子好那現在問題來了就是說既然剛剛部長也有認知說所謂的最低年限計違約金條款他規定在勞基法第15條之一您剛剛也提到說要用違約金條款來綁住勞工的離職自由是具有前提要件的那請問一下您有掌握是具備哪些前提要件嗎"},{"start":5116.334,"end":5123.463,"text":"我想事務之一上面就是有寫到是就是你要有培訓然後跟培訓費用然後還有簽約金"},{"start":5124.502,"end":5144.999,"text":"其實我們可以比較有體系的來講這些概念你要用違約金條款來綁住勞工離職自由你的違約金條款必須經過兩個要件的檢驗第一個要件就是違約金條款要有必要性第二個要件就是違約金條款要具有合理性那所謂的必要性就是雇主要付出相當的訓練成本"},{"start":5146.88,"end":5174.318,"text":"然後把員工培訓成是一個不可或缺的人物然後勞工的驟然離職會造成雇主的損失這時候雇主的利益才有需要以違約金條款來保障的必要這個叫做必要性那第二個合理性就是說你約束勞工的離職自由的年限要跟你所付出的訓練成本兩個要相當如果不相當的話就不具有合理性這樣那如果不整合掌握這兩個概念我們來操作一個實際的判決"},{"start":5177.42,"end":5191.75,"text":"這個實際的判決就是護理人員簽了一個違約金條款他必須在這家醫院任職滿兩年那如果提前離職的話就要賠償違約金兩個月結果這個護理人員真的是水土不服坐不下去然後要離職了這樣子那現在"},{"start":5193.371,"end":5216.45,"text":"院方他就提出了他們的訴求說你既然沒有做到兩年就離職那你要賠償我相當於兩個月薪水的違約金那我們來看一下院方怎麼主張院方他主張說我有對你進行新進人員的訓練課程那是這些兩年期的護理師的學習歷程那還有一些網路課程那又安排你去參加一些研習會跟研討會那請問一下我們剛有"},{"start":5220.233,"end":5246.951,"text":"操作過相關的定義了嘛你雇主必須是支付相當的訓練成本讓勞工成為不可替代的人選然後勞工的驟然離職會造成雇主的損失這時候勞工的利雇主的利益才有必要以違約金條款來約束好那以這個具體來是事實來看部長你覺得這個雇主這個醫院雇主的利益有必要以違約金條款來加以保障嗎"},{"start":5249.315,"end":5272.018,"text":"那個跟委員說明因為第一個我就目前你這個簡報的左邊的這些相關的課程因為當然我不是護理的專業所以我不是那麼清楚知道你現在列的這些相關的課程是在護理的專業裡面它是不是一個必要或者是它是一個什麼樣定性的相關的課程這可能我也要去找"},{"start":5272.438,"end":5296.781,"text":"課程一定是必要我們講的必要性是指說雇主的利益有沒有必要以違約金條款來約束課程一定是必要所以我的意思是說因為你剛剛列的你剛剛列的這些事情包括這課程包括雇主有沒有相關的支出它是不是一個最基本的就新到值的東西比方說它如果是最基本的法律要求的"},{"start":5297.542,"end":5305.579,"text":"跟還是說僱主也做更進一步額外進一步的培訓我自己不是護理的專業所以我比較沒有辦法從現在"},{"start":5308.122,"end":5335.722,"text":"其實部長你已經講到一個觀念了嘛它是不是一些必要的訓練例行性的訓練如果它是一個必要的訓練例行性的訓練那本來就是雇主你在經營一家醫院也好護理機構也好長照機構本來要負擔的基本的人事成本啊那本來就是雇主要負擔的那怎麼會把這個要負擔的基本的人事成本轉嫁在我們護理人員身上呢所以有沒有經過必要性的檢驗"},{"start":5336.863,"end":5361.844,"text":"部長可以再思考一下所以我說我這部分可能也要跟衛福部這邊來討論是這些課程的定性符不符合15-1他的前提的條件沒有問題那我也非常謝謝部長願意去跟衛福部來做一個專業上觀點的溝通那等一下馬上我們就會呈現司法的判決我們可以來聆聽法官對這件事怎麼看好那請問一下呢"},{"start":5363.826,"end":5378.337,"text":"我們接著來檢驗合理性那合理性當然定義已經有了嘛你付出這些新進人員的訓練成本然後去約束勞工兩年的離職自由那如果當中顯不相當例如說付出的錢非常的少"},{"start":5378.777,"end":5405.586,"text":"然後呢卻約束勞工兩年的離職自由那這樣會不會有顯不相當那如果顯不相當當然就不符合合理性那如果既不符合合理性又不符合必要性你用違約金條款來約束護理人員的自由那我想根據勞基法第15條之一這樣的違約金條款當然就是一個無效的條款來那部長請問一下你覺得這個違約金條款你目前看起來會是一個無效的違約金條款嗎"},{"start":5409.134,"end":5426.921,"text":"一樣是有專業嗎我確實沒有對護理的專業這麼了解所以我很難我自己就下一個怎樣的判斷通常這可能會進到法院裡面沒有問題那我們來看一下法院的判決那部長再跟我們分享對於法官的這個判斷是否能夠認同"},{"start":5428.442,"end":5446.525,"text":"那首先呢我們來講必要性的檢驗那法官就認為說這只是一個例行性的教育那不是為了這個特定的護理人員所製作並沒有額外的支出所謂的訓練成本而且有一些線上的課程這些課程其實都可以日後反覆的在使用其實這本來就是例行性的訓練"},{"start":5447.466,"end":5468.827,"text":"那雇主負擔的成本其實是很低的那所以難以認為說醫院有付出龐大的訓練成本讓這個護理人員成為不可替代的人選所以他的作然離職其實是不會造成醫院的損失所以這時候雇主的利益就沒有必要用違約金條款來保障這是必要性的檢驗法院的看法那第二個合理性的看法就是說這個訓練的費用其實都只是"},{"start":5471.049,"end":5494.795,"text":"一般的例行性的訓練新進人員的訓練那你用這些例行性的訓練來約束護理人員兩年的離職自由然後他沒有達到兩年提前離職你又要科與他付一個違約金的義務這個兩個權衡之下顯不相當所以當然也沒有符合合理性所以這個案件最後就是違約金條款無效那既然違約金條款無效當然護理人員就不用賠償"},{"start":5495.655,"end":5519.316,"text":"但是回歸到我們的食物層面護理人員設施衛生也很單純那某個程度也是勞動教育的概念沒有非常的普及跟扎實所以他們為了順利的離職所以他們就認賠了事那部長對這件事的看法如何不知道勞動部這邊可以多做一些什麼事嗎跟委員說沒有其實我們之前有在跟衛福部在討論是不是對於一些醫療業的"},{"start":5520.97,"end":5538.465,"text":"工作的現場包括他的人員有沒有可能其實跟衛福一起來合作那有更多這個關於勞動法規教育的機會包括宣導那讓大家其實能夠在這個法的框架下面能夠更加落實法尊"},{"start":5539.607,"end":5555.528,"text":"所以當然這是一個明確的判決那部長能夠認同嗎認為說這是例行性的訓練然後雇主的利益沒有必要用違約金條款來保障這個法院的判決就是判決我自己是認為說我們其實應該因為確實有很多法規的處理"},{"start":5557.17,"end":5583.393,"text":"包括行政的處理其實都會看法院的判決來作為一個重要的參考點所以我是說在這樣一個明確的法院的判決之下我想我們願意來跟衛夫婦來討論就是說是不是在怎麼樣狀況之下透過一個大家怎麼進一步的作為其實能夠讓法尊能夠更加落實那部長我想請問一下像這些濫用違約金條款的這個雇主啊請問勞基法相關的處罰是什麼"},{"start":5585.137,"end":5602.684,"text":"保安委員這條文老計法並沒有罰是老計法對於這條並沒有罰則那沒有罰則會有一個現象不公平的現象什麼現象呢如果護理人員傻傻的笨笨的陪下去醫院多賺到了一筆十萬塊的違約金如果護理人員不從的話"},{"start":5603.624,"end":5632.884,"text":"其實醫院沒有拿到他本來應該拿到的違約金他其實也沒有損失那濫用違約金條款的雇主等於他沒有成本啊他違法他濫用這種手段來約束護理人員約束護理人員的自由還讓護理人員平白無故從口袋掏出這個違約金條款反正成功了多賺一筆沒成功了也沒有損失但是這個濫用違約金條款雇主卻完全沒有成本所以我在這邊想要請教部長您是否覺得應該來建議一些法則"},{"start":5633.804,"end":5660.401,"text":"才能夠讓濫用違約金的僱主有一些這個成本要付出啊我覺得法規的討論當然法規要不要做更進一步優化我覺得這部分當然都可以來討論啦來看實際上面的需求但是我覺得就目前來看的話我自己還是比較希望是說大家針對包括是尤其是主管機關尤其很多醫院其實也是在"},{"start":5661.602,"end":5682.147,"text":"相關的事業單位主管機關管轄之內部長我先跟您分享一下不管要不要修法我們都應該進一步有一些進一步的作為那您進一步作為是除了做勞動教育因為剛剛有提到勞動教育這個措施是很明確的日後想要來深化那請問一下還有哪一些作為"},{"start":5686.083,"end":5708.059,"text":"跟委員報告現在地方政府有時候去勞檢的時候他們有時候在醫院勞檢他們有時候也會去問所以或許我們也可以提醒地方政府將來做一些專案勞檢或申訴勞檢順便去查一下他們提醒抽查幾位護理人員有沒有簽署這樣的一個條款然後去提醒業者這樣的約定是不是有預言無法"},{"start":5708.399,"end":5727.55,"text":"提醒其實就很像沒有牙齒的老虎而且可能不是沒有牙齒的老虎根本是小貓咪一隻完全沒有嚇阻的效力那我先分享一下我的做法本辦呢已經在大概一個月前就提出說要去修正勞基法79條把濫用違約金條款的雇主呢作為79條裁罰的標的之一就是如果你濫用違約金條款就會處2萬元以上10萬元以下罰款那也許這個方向是不是可以帶"},{"start":5737.877,"end":5746.306,"text":"勞動部帶回去研議那我接著再講第二件事情第二件事情就是說衛福部有出一個這個規則叫做醫療機構護理人員勞動契約建議應記載跟不得記載事項那這個"},{"start":5753.672,"end":5781.361,"text":"所謂的因記載跟不得記載事項裡頭有羅列了一些項目就是說醫院你跟護理人員簽訂勞動契約哪一些東西應該記載上去那我這邊建議如果既然沒有罰則既然沒有罰則是不是過渡期的做法當然我們日後希望有罰則過渡期的做法可不可以在這個因記載跟不得記載的這份文件裡頭要求要放入一個事項什麼事項呢就是"},{"start":5782.801,"end":5803.352,"text":"醫院或者是機構所為的例行性訓練或者是應該負擔的訓練成本不能夠作為雇主求償違約金的基礎可以嗎第一個這個應該是衛福部當然我知道這是衛福部這是邱文達時期如果我沒有記錯是他弄出來的一個記載因記載會不得記載事項"},{"start":5805.373,"end":5816.733,"text":"我想我們願意配合然後來提供我們的意見那我覺得勞動部如果這邊願意支持這樣的一個建議的話當然我們有勞動部長的一個建議我們也許好好的可以去跟政府部來溝通"},{"start":5818.869,"end":5836.922,"text":"所以您同意嗎我們現在最後來做一個總結就是說本辦想請你們提供資料但是其實沒有裁罰資料那我知道其實治安署的署長他上次有來我辦公室拜會他提到說雖然沒有裁罰資料但有一些輔導的資料"},{"start":5838.283,"end":5867.697,"text":"把一些醫院濫用違約金條款沒有裁罰但有輔導的資料可不可以送到本辦一個月內提供讓我們了解現在實務上到底濫用違約金條款的現象是如何這是第一件事那當然第二個就是說這個應記載跟不得記載事項能不能記載說例行性的或者是院方應該負擔的這個基本的雇主的訓練成本不能夠作為求償違約金的一個條款您剛也表示可以了嘛就是站在法尊的立場"},{"start":5868.197,"end":5886.144,"text":"當然啊法組長我們全台灣大家不是都依法行政嗎我想我們的政府也對於依法行政這四個字非常的崇尚所以我也是樂觀其成那當然另外一個就是建立裁罰機制那我請部長不要這麼快的否決帶回去研議一下思考一下那有什麼難處我們再互相來交流來討論這樣子那謝謝部長謝謝部長的支持跟這個協助謝謝"},{"start":5893.558,"end":5913.839,"text":"好 謝謝邱副委員的質詢接下來請邱政軍委員在此宣告待會蘇志全委員質詢完畢後休息十分鐘主席好我們請一下洪部長好 邀請洪部長"},{"start":5929.46,"end":5942.608,"text":"這個我看到我們4月13號即將上路的這個家事移工新制那乍看之下是好事可是我突然仔細想想可是裡面好像很多的問題我在這邊請教我們部長我們決定這個開出一張144萬人的這個空投支票"},{"start":5950.39,"end":5975.123,"text":"那先讓我們的家長認為說有便宜的勞動力可以用那至於人從哪裡來勞動部好像也沒說明我們現在目前只管把這個門檻拆掉然後引發這個洗工潮讓原本照顧老人的看護都跑去照顧小孩那至於以後小孩怎麼長大台灣保母會不會失業那長照體系會不會崩盤"},{"start":5977.281,"end":5992.784,"text":"不是勞動部要關心的問題數據好看比較重要那我看到衛福部的報告他承認我們承認這個國家一起養這個小孩子這個牛皮吹破了"},{"start":5993.706,"end":6017.594,"text":"既然公托蓋不夠 本國保母又太貴那我們決定棄守專業照護的底線反正只要把這批移工定義為家務幫傭而非專業保母未來家裡出事就不歸衛福部管我們只負責發幾份數位教材 求個新安至於144萬個小孩的成長品質跟本土托育產業的崩潰"},{"start":6019.455,"end":6034.424,"text":"那是家庭的私事與市場的競爭請大家自求多福那從這兩份書面報告我們可以看到政府的政策現在已經簡化到只要有人看小孩讓大人去工廠或辦公室上班就是成功的政策"},{"start":6035.585,"end":6061.535,"text":"至於小孩照顧得好不好那本國保母有沒有飯吃國家這個養了這個政策是否名存實亡在4月1號的報告裡面都沒有看到具體的解決方案那我先請教衛福部你們現在這個定調勞動政策說家務幫庸不涉及專業托育請教一下你有沒有去過任何一個家裡有小孩同時又請了移工的家庭你看過他們的真實生活嗎"},{"start":6062.515,"end":6085.958,"text":"在你們這種表格化的腦袋裡世界是切開來的這一欄是移工的廚房洗碗煮飯掃地這叫勞動部的勞動政策另一欄是小孩在哭在爬要換尿布這叫衛福部的社政業務但現實生活中這兩件事是分開的只要家裡有小孩移工的手隨時都會觸碰到那我再請問就是說"},{"start":6088.069,"end":6098.185,"text":"在這個萬一這個事情成真之後我們這個144萬個家庭當中如果發生了嚴重移工裂銅的案件這是屬於誰要負責的"},{"start":6104.114,"end":6118.805,"text":"我還是再重申一次委員剛剛所說的我覺得可能會有一些些小小偏頗我必須要跟委員報告所有這些政策其實基本上大概都是一攬子的一個政策對於這些部分我們有津貼"},{"start":6120.166,"end":6143.021,"text":"我們有公托我們也需要給家長時間這是現在目前全世界在推行有關於這個對育兒家庭最重要事實上就是有這些綜合的政策公司我請問衛福部衛福部對本土的保姆當初的要求是要受訓要訪視要進行考核因為衛福部說要專業嘛對不對要管得到我們這個也即使現在針對這144萬的家庭如果引進外籍幫佣你說這個部分你怎麼處理"},{"start":6148.386,"end":6174.759,"text":"包委員這兩個並不是互相替代的啊這互相是補充的這不是互相替代是互相是補充的那他不會照顧到小孩嗎那你請你給這些家庭請這些外勞的用意是什麼包委員我們現在目前容我在他不會你請過來請過來你現在是年齡限制12歲以下嘛對不對包委員讓我再簡單說明一下我們現在目前對家庭照顧有三個層次一個叫teacher"},{"start":6175.379,"end":6202.51,"text":"第二個呢是有關baby sister另外第三個叫housekeeper這三個是不一樣的但是三個不一樣其實大家每一個家庭你一個家庭他有辦法處理這麼多人嗎他有辦法這樣有辦法消化嗎因為他領的錢他有辦法去做這麼多的事情嗎包委所以我們現在每一個家庭都有不同的階段都有他們不同的需求所以我覺得這裡面事實上是我們應該要有一個比較重要性的那我請問這些幫傭他能不能照顧小孩"},{"start":6205.474,"end":6224.992,"text":"這些外勞 外勞 外勞報告委員喔 讓我再重複一下我就這樣問嘛 他如果能夠照顧小孩 那是不是就要照你的規定外勞工作內容大概有幾個部分嘛 是房舍清理嘛 食物烹調 但是家庭成員他也要照顧他的起居所以他當然 請這個當然是子女啊對 他要不要領保母證照"},{"start":6229.378,"end":6244.303,"text":"他是邦庸,所以他跟保姆是不一樣的所以我剛剛就講,一個housekeeper,一個failure setter你怎麼去界定這個事情我這樣講,因為外勞請到家裡你怎麼去限制他說,這個不能碰,那個不能碰你懂我意思嗎?"},{"start":6246.786,"end":6267.007,"text":"其實現在大家對保姆的專業期待很高,比方說他的健康照顧,甚至是他的發展的支持,就是小孩的早期發展的引導,甚至也包括一些輕職上面的顧問,或者是輕職上面的協助。"},{"start":6267.908,"end":6288.66,"text":"當然這些事情都是現在專業保姆裡面被期待賦予的一些專業的角色這些工作當然是外籍幫傭無法做的啊對啦我現在要講的就是說我發現的問題點所以提醒你們我現在是提醒你們你們要把這個事情釐清把它做得清楚一點寫得清楚一點就像我部長我還再請教就像你現在講話我再問你一個問題"},{"start":6291.141,"end":6299.883,"text":"就是說我們今天的這項政策是要讓家長安心去工作嘛提高我們的勞動力對吧那邏輯上申請人應該都要在職場對吧"},{"start":6301.533,"end":6323.126,"text":"我沒有看到我們要申請的時候我只看到要戶口名簿、要申請表、身障罕見證明、罕病證明那你們沒有寫說這兩個人的在職證明或者是勞保紀錄吧你們也要提供嗎我們第一個其實的確現在大部分來跟我們要求希望來申請的"},{"start":6324.207,"end":6339.506,"text":"絕大部分的確都是雙性家庭這是確定的但你沒有限制啊可是你沒寫清楚啊我們的資格的條件就是現在就是以12歲以下的小孩現在就是報告上沒寫嘛我現在提醒你"},{"start":6341.527,"end":6364.075,"text":"對 我就舉例啦我們基本上就是一個家庭家裡他是這個收出工媽媽是專業貴婦兩個名下財產過億如果沒有工作需求他就可以天天遊山玩水那家裡有一個10歲以下的小孩子他就可以生錢嘛 對不對那如果這樣對我們的這個提高的勞動力好像一點幫助都沒有啊你懂我意思嗎第一個我還是要說"},{"start":6366.653,"end":6382.298,"text":"我們剛剛在講到其實現在絕大多數來表達希望申請的確都是雙薪家庭那這個雙薪家庭他有他在工作跟家務分配上面這樣的需求你們的出發點是對的那我剛剛提醒你的時候你沒有剛剛沒有限制這個項目的時候你這個這個所謂的這個增加勞動的這個政策啊會變成富人管家的補助計畫"},{"start":6395.545,"end":6409.834,"text":"其實你在兩年前你也要求我們要研議開放我覺得是好事啊請我們研議要開放邦庸啊對對對我沒有反對我現在不是反對我的意思是說你們的規則你們的審查資格都沒有寫清楚你懂我意思嗎"},{"start":6414.497,"end":6433.774,"text":"原本是三個小孩六歲以下這的確在現代的家庭結構裡面是過度嚴格的所以我們希望能夠把它放寬那在這個放寬的過程裡面第一個我們針對如果是弱勢比方說如果家長是生長或者是小孩的狀況是早療或者是發展遲緩"},{"start":6435.015,"end":6459.344,"text":"包括這些東西我們都做了優先的配套的設計時間沒很多啦我其實我是支持這個政策但是我希望你們把這個政策的規則寫清楚不要到時候搞得亂七八糟的我們會把配套做好那再來我想請部長請回我想請這個行政院理副秘書長人總我們的理處長保訓會蔡處長"},{"start":6466.55,"end":6484.875,"text":"我先請教你們三位就是代表我們台灣公務體系最核心的人事與法治單位那我先請教您你們在過去的公務生涯當中有沒有親自擔任過職場霸凌小組的調查委員或親自撰寫過這個霸凌案的這個認定報告"},{"start":6488.059,"end":6512.975,"text":"有沒有去擔任過?跟委員報告,我擔任過調查委員,但是我沒有寫過調查報告對,因為我看到你們,你們有講到就是說現在行政院是外聘四個嘛,對不對?外聘四個調查委員那我請教一下,這四個裡面是誰在做主?還是行政院另外有派人?"},{"start":6514.519,"end":6527.689,"text":"跟委員報告那這一次的調查小組的話我們四位都是外聘委員那沒有內部委員沒有內部委員那誰為主導呢誰為主導啊如果他們四個調查回來兩個說有問題兩個又說沒有那怎麼辦"},{"start":6533.852,"end":6554.421,"text":"調查小組是四個人他會分工共同調查但是出那個報告的話是四個人共同出一份報告沒有出四份報告那他們如果四個人在講四個人都講不好怎麼辦四個人他們自己內部會有開會那他們會協調出共同的結論會討論出一個共同的結論那你們就會照做嗎"},{"start":6560.503,"end":6586.15,"text":"我們會照做嗎你們會照他們的報告做嗎因為這一次就是為了要公正跟客觀嘛為了要釐清事實的真相所以我們自己的內部委員是沒有介入調查的那對於他的報告我們當然會信任跟尊重啊對啊我不希望說這四個大家調查到後來然後沒有一個結論到時候又不了了之啊"},{"start":6587.03,"end":6615.446,"text":"不會那到時候誰要介入是你們介入還是誰介入他是這樣的他的過程中的話現在由調查小組先去調查那調查完以後會出一份調查報告出稿那這個要多久你們現在調查要多久依照規定的時限是兩個月必要可以延長一個月但是院長昨天已經宣示了我們會盡量在規定兩個月的期限內完成報告好那我們就靜待報告了好謝謝"},{"start":6618.443,"end":6631.521,"text":"謝謝邱政軍委員的質詢接下來請蘇清泉委員質詢重新宣告待會劉建國委員質詢完畢後休息10分鐘"},{"start":6634.161,"end":6650.151,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我請行政院副秘書長好 請副秘書長好 還有李建德次長李建德次長還有人事處的陳崑源好 人事處我也好好"},{"start":6652.839,"end":6679.911,"text":"副局長你是事務官事務官所以你是公務體系幾乎最高的嘛是那你對公務人員有沒有疼惜的心我們自己是公務體系的人員我們對公務人員當然會有疼惜的心啊你不要像政務官拍拍屁股就走人啦所以沒在插插你們會怎麼樣來我今天要問的是我們公務人員的體檢一般有3500跟4500對不對"},{"start":6683.92,"end":6709.729,"text":"那比較高強度的,譬如說錦霄、海巡、空巡、台鐵司機,這裡特別要講台鐵司機,那這個就是一年一次,其他兩年一次嘛。三千五到四千五啦,副院長你知不知道?知!知!那三千五要做什麼檢查?是要去量身高體重、抽抽血那樣?"},{"start":6711.547,"end":6733.56,"text":"我的印象裡面這幾年我們已經人事總署這部分已經逐年逐年在調整我參考日本的公務體系他們是非常的嚴謹金額也很高體檢完之後如果有紅字有不正常的他們就會再追蹤"},{"start":6734.983,"end":6761.861,"text":"那我們這邊是三千五、四千五,你自己找便宜,放股吃草,人流跌倒出來,怎樣也不能追蹤。我覺得這一塊比不上勞保,我們勞動部在我們洪部長的這個柔韌之下,我們就是事業單位大家都很怕命,還有什麼職安護理師、職安什麼師什麼師,"},{"start":6764.203,"end":6786.913,"text":"貼圖出來又有問題 追耶 一直追所以我在想 我們這個國務卿館 每次都要試 課要拍情緒又吃雞 每次都要用早餐每次都要出事情 我是覺得這個你們要好好的思考至少參考日本一下嘛 如果沒有就叫勞動部來給我們支得嘛"},{"start":6788.772,"end":6795.958,"text":"我覺得公務人員我沒有預測將來考公務人員高考的人會越來越少"},{"start":6805.47,"end":6826.829,"text":"會越來越少你看看今年的大學那個第一階段現在已經可以收到84%今年要收的大學的入企新生他占了84%然後各位看到那些AI的電子的全部都在前面很高"},{"start":6827.779,"end":6839.923,"text":"那你做公務人員,或什麼將來想,我看很快公務人員他們站到了,就要自己提撥,我看那個條件越來越差那你自己當副秘書長,你就要想一下"},{"start":6841.909,"end":6865.234,"text":"我們衛福部的理事長,你站在醫療界的角度,這樣一宗體檢,做一個Low dose的CT就要四千塊,你用三千塊,你真的是要叫他去喝咖啡,增高體重量一量,抽抽血,敢要這樣而已,一些Straight check啦,一些心血管的check,你看我怎麼樣?"},{"start":6868.926,"end":6892.562,"text":"國務委員我其實我是來衛福部學習啦 也來委員學習嘛我是覺得 委員你所關心的 我覺得是真的啦 我們公務人員真的這麼辛苦 我想這個 都可以來研究啦 謝謝所有公務人員都是國家 國家是雇主那你用這種心態 應付應付的 然後一天到晚再出事"},{"start":6894.023,"end":6900.531,"text":"尤其是精神上的壓力的好像今天太多人在講這個霸凌的事情一件接一件"},{"start":6901.889,"end":6927.657,"text":"那都是精神壓力,那個比獅子的壓力還大所以我覺得我們行政單位還有我們行政院一定要做分別考量你最高的文官你可以一年是一萬六嘛跟比照立委嘛,可以保留一年兩年一起做所以比較做高檢要很實際的,很實際的真的是抓到重點不然的話對這些公務人員是不公平"},{"start":6928.621,"end":6942.712,"text":"真的不公平,那我今天不講那個霸凌,霸凌講太多了,沒有意思啦,健康好不好,我看到太多的警察,心機更塞我在屏東就看到好幾個,連屏東選舉委員會的主秘也是暴斃,猝死,怕死人"},{"start":6950.879,"end":6976.467,"text":"所以我都說他們那是無形的壓力啦所以那如果又加上人委去跟他那個,那更不得了所以怎麼衛部跟蕾絲總署這邊看看有沒有一個formula你要做基本的檢測做心血管的做癌症指數的種種做金額要大幅提高為了三千四、四千四、四千五,要請四人"},{"start":6979.059,"end":6993.167,"text":"我們勞保的公司好像有的都加得很高,自己加嘛這個是員工最大的資產你們沒有把你們的員工當作資產,我覺得我一點都沒有感受到"},{"start":6999.727,"end":7014.252,"text":"我們謝謝委員提醒了我們公務員健康檢查這個機制的相關問題這個議題對我們所有的公務員其實是非常重要的那我們原先的時候也是從零開始然後慢慢逐步逐步的建立"},{"start":7014.932,"end":7034.202,"text":"那目前委員對於這個金額部分呢就是一般年齡還沒到了同仁的時候三千五、四千五這個金額的部分的時候有所關心嘛那會後的話我們會把這個議題帶回去我們會請人事總署的時候跟有關機關一起來研議一下"},{"start":7035.342,"end":7052.491,"text":"好,就是壓力檢查,stress check,再來就是吸血管,再來就是精神過勞好不好好,研究一下,我給各位來對好,謝謝,我們請回,請回那我們請第二個提問,我請部長,洪部長我請主委,請主委來等一下啦,你去選館長啦"},{"start":7064.348,"end":7075.955,"text":"來你現在這個12歲以下你跟美賴總統跟你的最原始的想法我想是不是因為我們台灣的女性的"},{"start":7077.042,"end":7084.108,"text":"像我們醫院的夫妻都是臨床醫師啦像我辦公室的助理也是這樣啊他們都是雙薪所以我說你用這個12歲以下我覺得非常好啊非常好"},{"start":7103.522,"end":7108.567,"text":"非常好 講三次你們的起心是怎麼樣起心動念是怎麼樣"},{"start":7110.676,"end":7134.658,"text":"其實這個政策當然他是我們也在面對現在的家庭結構跟過去其實不同所以過去的家庭的型態會有比較多長輩的後援那現在比較少那現在雙薪家庭也是主流所以我們最大的政策的目的就是希望能夠讓很多的這個雙薪家庭勞工朋友其實可以安心的工作然後家庭可以減壓這是最重要的目的"},{"start":7134.758,"end":7156.009,"text":"像我們醫院有,我講一個例子,夫妻都是臨床醫師然後一個小孩是七歲,一個是三歲那早上就會送到學校嘛,國小一個國小一個在小班嘛那下午下課,哇完蛋了,幾位狗跳,沒人去接孩子"},{"start":7157.705,"end":7180.826,"text":"所以就請家庭的幫傭,就是下午來上班接小孩然後給他準備晚餐,然後家裡的一些幫傭的事情事實上他們沒有在照顧小孩,他們是把他接回來,先哭謝謝,看一頓飯吃然後爸爸媽媽有可能七點八點,有可能九點才回來"},{"start":7181.747,"end":7210.183,"text":"因為有時候要開刀啊什麼的所以這個他找台灣的幫傭不好找耶在高雄很貴耶夜間比較尤其是晚上特別困難到爸爸媽媽回來之後他就下班了對 晚上的部分特別難找從四點到八點多九點那所以這個幫傭 外籍幫傭進來我覺得是非常有需要"},{"start":7211.226,"end":7232.185,"text":"那你以前是六歲以下三個,那不可能的事啦他有可能六歲以下生三個,他不肖的他有可能,所以你現在這個,這樣是很好而且現在外籍的移工,大家都在搶人欸條件要過好唯一的就是一個要繳五千塊的救安基金,先過啦"},{"start":7235.242,"end":7253.588,"text":"這個救安費當然原本就是五千塊啦但是我們有針對如果有特殊家庭或者是家長有身障那或者是家裡的照顧需求特別高的比方說小孩如果有兩個小孩其中一個是六歲以下的話都可以把五千塊降到兩千塊那不是有殘障的有什麼有問題的啦"},{"start":7256.829,"end":7279.581,"text":"對,就是說家長單親或者是生長,假設有生長的話那他可能特別辛苦,我們希望降低他的負擔,把他的救援費減下來我覺得如果這家庭很辛苦的,或者是有真的殘障的,是不是不收也可以啦兩千塊,你是要兩千塊,老大不聽好話就,家大業大"},{"start":7281.687,"end":7307.234,"text":"我爸爸也是一宿一宿我們大概都會有一個分層次的市長市長你聽到沒有?對啊,殘障還要更多的社區滿有人太大壓力了這個大家都在為市委委員會打拚尤其我們女性的勞動力我再講一次素質都很高、學歷都很高、能力都很強這些人擋在家裡我是覺得可惜啦"},{"start":7308.054,"end":7325.146,"text":"所以這個來補充而且是真的有需要所以你這個政策我給你肯定在野黨肯定你 你要拍手加油 謝謝好 謝謝蘇清泉委員接下來請劉建平委員接選好 謝謝主席二位理事"},{"start":7336.758,"end":7352.082,"text":"你不用上來 你待我事情一個禮拜再不處理我就請這個主席來拍專報再不行 我就直接拜託主席直接到你們那個衛務部去考察好 謝謝來 接下來請部長好 有請黃部長君如細言 小心一點"},{"start":7361.004,"end":7389.914,"text":"部長 我們農政部推的在你主政之下育嬰假的這個新制嘛那女性的申請率從原本的72.2降為到55.6看圖表那這個少了16.6的這樣的一個成績雖然是一個突破但還是有56.6的女性能有請育嬰假的這樣的需求顯示照顧的兒童的責任還是以女性為主嘛這個不為過嘛 對不對"},{"start":7390.934,"end":7410.12,"text":"然後主計總署跟衛護部的統計近年婦女層因為結婚而離子的主因以被孕或懷孕為最大中將近快40%左右2023年這個媒體又做出相關的報導台灣女性就有33萬人因為要照顧家庭而退出勞動市場"},{"start":7411.5,"end":7428.042,"text":"他怎麼統計怎麼基礎然後年齡到幾歲這個就要你們這邊來做相關的這樣的一個調查評估不過33萬在對照那一次在這邊提出職選的時候一年流失了13萬3左右"},{"start":7429.67,"end":7447.425,"text":"顯然這個數據越看是越恐怖但是基本基礎這個有時間再做討論所以是不論是育嬰假還是今天召委安排的這個專報我想都是要解決照顧離子的問題讓女性可以安心續留讓台灣的女性勞工可以安心續留"},{"start":7448.396,"end":7477.876,"text":"我們是不是要對比你對外勞的安心續留的相關的因應這個措施跟這樣的一個政策是不是要有所做一些處理了不管是身為孕女的方式有十種類別的這樣的一個勞動的一個情況他可能就有十種的選擇一定會有孕婦或母親選擇離開職場在一段的時間內全身心的來專心帶孕或陪伴孩子的成長"},{"start":7478.916,"end":7496.81,"text":"但也或許就是這一段時間的陪伴當小孩進入小學或中學時女性就應該能夠重回職場但部長可以看這張圖表這是從台灣、日本、南韓、新加坡、美國、瑞典這個圖表部長可以看台灣的這個曲線圖就長得就特別不一樣它到了77點應該是這麼講"},{"start":7506.383,"end":7532.496,"text":"在高點是89.9然後就每況愈下然後到了最後是到26這個地方這個這個曲線跟你在對照南韓南韓還有一年他是往上升的往上升的那其他各國他都是他是維持穩定的一段時間可能平均都還要有在應該是81到86左右他可能到"},{"start":7533.158,"end":7557.36,"text":"到近幾年它才是最來勢的這樣下跌這個區間圖給部長做一個參考我提供這個表是說從30歲就直直往下掉底下還有歲數的一個標誌然後對比其他國家30歲雖然各國也都有明顯往下降的趨勢但是40歲左右"},{"start":7558.041,"end":7581.582,"text":"都好像還會再回升一下會再回升然後以南冷為例剛剛特別提到就曲線最明顯連鄰近的日本也是這個樣子所以政府希望女性不用照顧兒離子但這群離子的女性願意重回職長時那應該是整個國家社會求之不得的一個勞動力對不對那怎麼台灣反而是回不去了"},{"start":7583.348,"end":7585.969,"text":"所以勞動部在規劃婦女再就業計畫從112年到9月1號到今年的8月31號為止鼓勵婦女自主訓練精進原有職能訓練完成並辦理求職登記就發給2萬的獎金如果訓練完成180內經推介"},{"start":7603.649,"end":7628.593,"text":"推介就業或自行就業者再發給一萬元也就是成功的訓練完成並在180天內完成就業的再就業的婦女就可以拿到三萬元這是一個好的政策啦這是一個好的政策那是怎麼還會這個最危險的下降然後剛剛對照圖表台灣女性30歲之後就難以再回到職場所以我覺得這三萬塊是不是不夠"},{"start":7630.25,"end":7633.98,"text":"因為今年8月31號就要結束了白宮部會再升級婦女債就業2.0嗎"},{"start":7635.851,"end":7664.547,"text":"根本說明其實我們近期其實是如火如荼在討論跟研議針對這個婦女在就業計劃要有一個升級版那在講的原因也是剛才就像委員剛才說的我們的確看到臺灣的這個二度就業婦女重回職場的比率相比於其他的國家其實還是是比較偏低的所以看起來我們的確可能在一些條件上面會需要更加的放寬或者力道也要加大這是我們"},{"start":7665.387,"end":7671.834,"text":"接下來我想應該近期就會來跟外界報告自主訓練獎勵啦從原有的3萬你們是2加1啦2萬加1萬嘛對不對然後有沒有機會變成4加2"},{"start":7678.786,"end":7705.441,"text":"就變成到6萬跟我們說明確實我們在考慮剛剛原本是2加1嘛那接下來我們也在思考是不是加碼到就是委員講的這個數字就4加2嘛對好不好我們就朝這個方向來努力了我們來努力我們願意我願意朝這個數字來努力這個應該一個月內可以來做決定吧我希望更快我們不只是鼓勵這個我們所有的婦女的就業2.0就他們的這樣的"},{"start":7708.042,"end":7720.772,"text":"可以回到職場再持續的來貢獻這樣一個勞動力除此之外鼓勵勞工我們也要鼓勵企業嘛那你們企業是這樣除了獎勵婦女在就業外針對這些聘用在就業的企業勞動部也給予一個月職缺是3000塊每月3000塊的獎勵啦最長是12個月嘛對不對那也讓這個"},{"start":7728.98,"end":7751.161,"text":"這些鼓勵在配合我們的政策的這些企業老東部是不是也一併要加碼跟委員說的確因為除了錢以外我們也在檢討他的一些機制啦那這個機制裡面我們也看到其實很多二度就業的父母他都重回職場他有他在工時上面的期待跟需求比方說他會比較希望他的工時不一定是那麼長"},{"start":7752.102,"end":7777.092,"text":"那或者是有些工時因人而異的調整的空間所以我們的確也在研議就是說如果企業願意來協助這個二路就二的婦女在做工時的調整或相關的支持措施的話那我們也會加碼這個獎勵金這部分也是我們在規劃研議的其中一個重要的部分就是等於婦女在就業的2.0版針對女性勞工也針對"},{"start":7778.452,"end":7799.049,"text":"願意配合的這些企業我剛才講的部分就給企業企業願意給予勞工彈性跟工時的一些調整的機制我們就願意支持企業好那我們就4月底前了啦4月底是OK就已經答應了是沒問題不要是因為今天是4月1號謝謝來再來我們再看請部長看勞工職場尊嚴"},{"start":7801.181,"end":7817.676,"text":"2024的一個屏東地院的判決等一下再看到2025的一個宜蘭的判決這罵星巴克的員工智障然後你奧克在用冰拿鐵去破臉然後標罵 做標罵兩分鐘的王插蛋還有怒罵店員XX娘"},{"start":7820.253,"end":7848.828,"text":"挨告後或判無罪法官說妨礙名譽非彰化罪台灣什麼時候有彰化罪我不太懂就是罵彰化不等同於應該是講說罵彰化不等同於妨礙不等同於妨礙名譽的罪責這個是下面我就不再追溯了他說這個人雖然罵了勞工之後口出惡言但妨礙名譽非彰化所以如果因此判有罪法院會變成什麼道德糾察隊也就是過度干涉個人"},{"start":7849.827,"end":7866.096,"text":"干涉被告個人羞恿介入干涉被告個人羞恿或言行品味的私的領域這已遠離該罪的正當的保護目的我實在不太清楚這是什麼樣的一個說辭那部長有什麼看法"},{"start":7868.215,"end":7883.703,"text":"如果按照這個敘述的話其實這當然已經是可能是有這個不法侵害職場不法侵害的狀況了有不法侵害的狀況嘛對不對好那應該像這樣的一個消費者像這樣的一個顧客應該受到什麼樣的懲處什麼樣的處罰"},{"start":7887.874,"end":7899.489,"text":"跟委員報告 在治安法裡面目前是要求僱主要對勞工可能遭受不法侵害採取預防的措施採取預防的措施 現在發生了"},{"start":7900.976,"end":7917.554,"text":"然後我們的勞工去告了這個罵他的對象那法院又就這樣處理不是只有這一案還有依然一案依然入罵超商店員就王插蛋什麼東西法官以認定為是公然侮辱這兩個20分鐘"},{"start":7923.667,"end":7950.74,"text":"店內當時沒有其他人縱使這個言語過於粗鄙令人心生不快但冒犯及影響程度尚屬輕微最多算是修養欠佳剛剛那個講道德這個講修養因不足以貶損女店員的社會名譽或名譽人格那你們現在處理方式在我們職安法的處理方式還是針對雇主嘛對不對最近這一案怎麼處理統一那個職場"},{"start":7952.412,"end":7972.589,"text":"怎麼處理各位說明因為相關的法源因為斬法的整部法的這個施行的邏輯裡面最重要其實就是刻意部署的責任那當然如果對顧客的部分但這部分可能就會進入到司法司法的處理跟判決我今天就是要跟部長討論這個事情如果針對針對勞工受到顧客"},{"start":7977.423,"end":8000.597,"text":"不當的傷害的情況之下那我們的職安法裡面只有針對像這個僱主來做是不是有教育訓練是不是有防暴力的指引就是防範的責任對啦 防範的責任好 他都有做了啊假設他都有做了然後這個勞工又被傷害了然後又到法院去訴諸"},{"start":8002.288,"end":8017.476,"text":"這樣的一個法律訴訟的情況之下又被法官做這樣的一個判決無罪的判決那你覺得我們這個治安法是不是有輸入之處還是有修正的空間"},{"start":8020.294,"end":8038.433,"text":"我引用這兩個例子跟引用統一的這個例子你們最終還是去做這樣的處理當然你必須要做這樣的處理是不是有教育訓練是不是有環抱相關的指引如果沒有就是告發了嘛對不對那勞工被傷害了勞工被傷害的回復正義誰來幫助他們來主張誰來幫他們回復"},{"start":8042.777,"end":8067.372,"text":"跟各位說明因為職安法整部法它設計的原意就是在處理職場裡面因為職場的指揮或權力關係所造成的傷害所以整個職安法它其實比較絕大部分的對象就是科與僱主相關的責任這是職安法的邏輯對可是現在因為現在遇到的是員工跟顧客員工跟消費者之間第三者的關係"},{"start":8068.393,"end":8082.503,"text":"他其實就這個消費者跟員工之間他可能就不是一個雇主跟員工之間的這樣子從屬或指揮的關係下的確會有些部分不容易用責任法去規範到所以就必須回到我們其他的也許刑事法規上面去處理"},{"start":8083.587,"end":8102.401,"text":"但是現在就是我跟部長提起的這兩個案件基本上那個受傷受暴力對待受言語暴力對待的勞工通通沒有辦法在法院得到正義上的彰顯嘛所以我才會回到未完委員會來垂詢部長我們該不該面對這個問題該不該來幫助這些在職場上受到傷害的勞工"},{"start":8113.812,"end":8133.58,"text":"這一塊已經碰壁了對不對那這一塊你們處理就是針對僱主那受傷勞工他要找誰能不能大家冷靜來思考這件事情這個事情層出不窮啊訴出懷孕又無解啊然後又做出這樣的解釋啊那要怎麼處理"},{"start":8136.265,"end":8154.774,"text":"跟委員報告現在在我們這一次的治安法的修法也有提到這個要調查跟處理他雖然是外部的一個人員那我們認為說在後續事情發生後僱主應該還是要提供有關於剛剛法律的一個協助還有心理諮商的一些"},{"start":8156.535,"end":8170.826,"text":"諮詢協助這個是在我們法上可以要求僱主來做的法律的協助我不曉得這兩個案例這個僱主有沒有協助即便有協助判決就這樣對不對即便有協助判決就這樣那僱主有協助啊"},{"start":8173.737,"end":8190.809,"text":"那個委員我覺得我們可能的確會需要比方說也許需要跟法務部來討論一些相關是不是有在怎麼樣來協助像這樣子案例的更進一步的可能我懂委員的意思啦就是說既有的法規確實是有些受限在這樣的案例裡面有些受限"},{"start":8192.15,"end":8210.504,"text":"我們針對醫護人員在急診的暴力我們也經過好幾年的討論然後節節的提高相關的這樣的一個法則然後對應的方法那勞工的磁場何嘗不是他在職業中遇到的暴力的傷害不管言語不管是行為對不對"},{"start":8212.205,"end":8230.815,"text":"那我們怎麼沒有去思考所以委員我覺得我們真的我想針對不法侵害的概念尤其是如果這樣幾個幾個這個判例或者是案例出來我認為我們可以綜合在思考說是不是有些地方可以再再更多強化有更多的保護不過的確這個可能我們我覺得可能要找法務部這邊大家來做一些討論這樣子"},{"start":8231.895,"end":8251.86,"text":"對啦,我們不應該說醫事人員在執行這個業務的時候遇到的相關的一些暴力我們就有相關的規範、法則去作為處理護理也是勞工的對象啊他們在衛務部這邊就有這樣的一個處置啊那整體各類別的勞工遇到職場上在執業的過程"},{"start":8253.24,"end":8267.182,"text":"受到這樣的不可侵賴言語行為相關的暴力然後訴諸法律求助無門的情況之下那我們只是針對雇主去說你有沒有做教育訓練你有沒有做相關的一些職業如果沒有我就跟你告發那對那個勞工情何以堪是"},{"start":8269.676,"end":8288.066,"text":"我想我們來正視這個問題啦好不好也請部長一個月內可以吧來研擬相關的營運措施保護勞工在職業過程中不應該再受到這樣的一個傷害啦好 謝謝好 謝謝主席 謝謝好 謝謝劉建國委員的發言謝謝侯生漢部長現在休息十分鐘"},{"start":8892.315,"end":8912.779,"text":"好 現在開始開會繼續開會現在請王業民委員質詢謝謝主席 我們先請行政院副秘書長 李副秘書長請副秘書長委員好"},{"start":8920.874,"end":8939.667,"text":"副秘書長好今天委員會排葬的專案其中很關切的就是有關於霸凌的議題那這一個大家都很痛心委員會新副代表他這個去世的消息那大家也想要知道真相那昨天我在院會質詢的時候"},{"start":8941.127,"end":8969.468,"text":"其實就有直接問院長那這個昨天楊珍妮代表她沒有上台接受質詢但是她有跟媒體說她跟副代表這個生前互動是良好的但是隨即呢昨天下午就有顏慧欣的友人出來說顏慧欣從3月12號去世到3月29號骨灰入塔"},{"start":8970.788,"end":8992.215,"text":"這個楊真理代表連一通慰問電話都沒有我想請教李副秘書長就行政院掌握到的情況是這樣子嗎各位報告這個部分我們沒有獲得訊息所以你們也不清楚我們不清楚那行政院有派人去關心嗎慰問家屬也不清楚這個不清楚"},{"start":9000.587,"end":9020.542,"text":"這個我覺得行政院你們掌握能力好像也太弱了吧這個事情發生到現在你今天要來委員會那畢竟這個顏慧欣是副代表也是一個很重要的職務那發生這樣子的事情我覺得行政院總該有人實際去關心慰問一下吧結果你今天來委員會你們都不清楚"},{"start":9020.762,"end":9044.544,"text":"不過如同昨天委員執行院長的時候院長當下接到幕僚的訊息的時候他就有表達他的關心但我是說從知道他3月12號就是去世到3月29號中間行政院都沒有派人再去慰問跟關心家屬這個部分我們不清楚"},{"start":9045.287,"end":9063.751,"text":"完全不清楚那你們就是完全沒有掌握我想這件事情外界這麼關心就是我們希望我們公務人員在公務體系裡面大家得到都是一個友善的職場那如果連顏惠欣這麼高職務的一個副代表他可能都會來自上級長官的一個霸凌"},{"start":9064.291,"end":9076.666,"text":"然後抑鬱難生我覺得這件事情真的是值得大家來關注那今天我就要問就是事實上根據你們的公務人員執行安全及衛生的防護辦法裡面第35條這個保訊會在報告裡面也寫得非常清楚當你們"},{"start":9084.232,"end":9095.496,"text":"知道職場霸凌的情況不一定要申訴就是你們其實是可以採取一些調查的行動的這個是在今天的報告裡面有講到那我就要問副秘書長這一條有在落實嗎如果以顏慧欣的個案事實上她在辭職信裡面就提到這個會被嚴厲的訓斥這樣的一個情況"},{"start":9107.386,"end":9125.515,"text":"那看起來這個也沒有處理第二件其實是於大雷案我昨天其實也問了這個院長那是在我一再的逼問底下院長才指示說希望外交部可以去了解那之前外交部是不想了解的他說沒有人透過正式的申訴管道"},{"start":9126.095,"end":9148.716,"text":"他說沒有這一案媒體報導的這麼清楚但是外交部的回應是說因為沒有正式投訴所以他就採取不告不理就是沒有申訴人所以他就當作沒有發生但是按照你們的這個辦法裡面你們35條你們是可以主動去調查的那為什麼之前外交部這樣的一個態度"},{"start":9150.138,"end":9172.019,"text":"這個我們行政院沒有主動去要求他應該要先去了解啊包括這20名的這個清潔工還有這個外交人員這個被當工友使喚等等這些情況你們應該是可以要求外交部要主動了解為什麼也沒做這個動作是我昨天質詢才要求院長應該要這樣子下指令的"},{"start":9174.276,"end":9191.289,"text":"這個是屬於外交部的權責但是辦法裡面講他們也是公務人員35條不是說你們可以主動去掌握就我們行政院院本部的那個防治作業要點裡面的話我們對於知悉的話我們是會下去釐清事實"},{"start":9191.969,"end":9204.505,"text":"對啊那報紙都已經報成這樣了不是知悉了嗎所以我們3月26號知悉以後呢我們就馬上成立調查小組要去釐清事實外交部這件案子嗎不是我們院本部的"},{"start":9206.564,"end":9221.532,"text":"外交部是外交部要去處理的所以你們院本部也26號有立案然後是針對這個余大雷這個案子不是不是余大雷案子不會到院本部來他是外交部的執掌"},{"start":9222.392,"end":9244.473,"text":"我知道那如果這樣子的話就變成說如果外交部駐外單位發生任何霸凌的事件他就是話外之地因為行政院管不著所以再怎麼嚴重那就是尊重外交部就是他沒有一個更上級的單位可以往上申訴行政院也不是那是總統府嗎是總統的職權這個就是我看到看起來是有漏洞啊"},{"start":9245.254,"end":9272.959,"text":"昨天是因為在行政院院會我質詢院長院長也認為說應該要處理那要不然本來外交部次長他是覺得就是沒有人沒有人透過政治管道甚至說他是沒有要受理的耶那如果未來再發生類似這樣的一個案件請問怎麼辦這是不是漏洞那你整個行政院你要不要去檢討不可能我們駐外單位就是話外之地啊派駐到那邊也都是我們公務人員"},{"start":9273.979,"end":9288.744,"text":"那他們發生一些職場霸凌的事件如果外交部官官相互他採取不告不理他完全就是說因為你不敢具名啊你沒有正式申訴啊我就當作沒有發生那恐怕會更嚴重這怎麼辦 副秘書長這個我們在現在的那個規定裡面的話對於知悉的部分的時候他是要下去釐清事實"},{"start":9300.408,"end":9316.107,"text":"那你的35條有沒有有沒有範圍有沒有到我們這一些駐外單位有啊所以我剛剛講像于大雷案你們就可以啊你們就可以要求外交部要去了解你不是還是上解督導單位還是說外交部現在不歸你們只歸總統"},{"start":9317.509,"end":9325.361,"text":"不是外交部他自己有外交部的我知道但是他做的不好啊他被動啊他消極啊那這個時候怎麼辦這個就是我要跟你講的現在這個這個勞動部在我們的監督底下他現在提出來的機制"},{"start":9334.113,"end":9351.662,"text":"他是可以有更上層的單位就是說這個原單位企業他若不受理的話他可以跟公部門投訴但是你公部門我就問你外交部不受理的時候怎麼辦可以跟行政院投訴嗎還是跟總統府投訴你的機制你的更上位的那一個監督機制到底在哪裡"},{"start":9355.441,"end":9376.952,"text":"我覺得這個是個漏洞喔副秘書長我希望你們回去之後你們要把這個洞補起來啊現在看起來就是這樣子啊你都尊重原單位我就問你原單位如果沒有受理或他受理不公那請問他還有再再上一層的機制嗎有嗎可以上到哪裡不知道"},{"start":9384.819,"end":9407.2,"text":"這個會後我們會再去釐清一下好我要求這個部分的洞應該要補起來不可以有這樣子的一個情況既然我們之前發生了這一些霸凌的案件我們覺得應該要做好那當時是勞動部是勞動部這邊的修法但是公務人員這邊你們也說你們要好好來修法要來落實"},{"start":9408.001,"end":9431.031,"text":"那現在顯然我覺得你們現在的辦法裡面還是有漏洞我希望這一塊要補起來這個就是我講的現在我們在勞動部裡面就是他可以地方勞工局投訴然後外部第三方強制的介入但是我們現在公部門裡面沒有更上層的單位這個應該要做另外一個我要問你的是這一個小組的審議"},{"start":9432.812,"end":9440.659,"text":"剛剛也有委員提到了我們現在以楊蕙心這個案為例現在已經有四個外部的委員就是來做調查對不對"},{"start":9442.196,"end":9466.449,"text":"那第一個是誰來督導這件事情讓他可以更完整我昨天也跟院長講了第一個我要求的是這個涉及到霸凌的當事人他要不要調理限職因為他如果這個主管他是最高主管目前還在這個職務上面他沒有暫時調理限職請問他整個辦公室他以下他所掌管的人員有人敢講真話嗎"},{"start":9468.806,"end":9490.596,"text":"會不會就是礙於這樣的一個壓力他都還在這個位置上誰講馬上就被發現然後對他的保護其實是不周全你們有沒有考慮過這樣的一個問題你要讓調查還原真相涉及霸凌的當事人主管是不是需要暫時請假或調離限制讓這個調查可以更深入 複民長你的看法呢"},{"start":9491.256,"end":9510.646,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們現在的外部委員正在調查嘛是那協助我們把事實釐清那我們會依照調查的結果還有防護委員會的審議決議的話來處理我知道我要告訴你的是調查結果能不能還原真相"},{"start":9511.326,"end":9535.079,"text":"在於他能不能接觸到這一些跟事件相關的人而這一些事件相關的人他會不會有來自上級的壓力他可不可以有一個好的保護然後他敢把事實真相完全說出來大家都還記得當時勞動部的霸凌案的時候第一次的報告是霸凌案不成立的有沒有調查 有有沒有還原事實 沒有"},{"start":9536.059,"end":9556.297,"text":"所以這個就是關鍵後來我記得洪澄漢部長還說他設了一個信箱所有的人就是可以指到他那邊就是完全不會洩露出去那我不知道公務部門你們這邊行政院的做法是什麼可不可以真的保護到吹哨者要不然有調查但是會變成沒真相"},{"start":9556.917,"end":9579.737,"text":"因為你調查到的不是最核心最敢講真話或是礙於事實壓力你的這個調查報告可能就只是流於形式沒有還原真相那我具體建議一個是剛剛講的涉及霸凌的主管你要讓他暫時調離限制這是一個建議第二個是所有的包括像楊蕙心個案她的友人這個爆料者"},{"start":9580.197,"end":9600.715,"text":"你怎麼樣想方設法讓他們願意講出最真實的真相這些調查委員有沒有接觸到他們還有包括現在被指涉的楊真理他之前他服務過的包括國貿局跟他互動的單位包括外交部擴大調查範圍這是必要的這個也是去稀釋不要讓當事人你只調查少數人這少數人的壓力就很大"},{"start":9603.337,"end":9610.764,"text":"你調查多一點人的時候就是他可以免除那個直接被指涉的壓力這個是在調查過程當中要蠻細膩的我不知道你們有沒有考慮這些如果這些你們沒有很仔細的一個去討論跟執行的話將來的調查報告恐怕會不符合就是大家的期待家屬可能也覺得沒有還原真相這個你們可以做到嗎"},{"start":9627.32,"end":9645.553,"text":"個人報告剛剛委員講的這些點的話我們回去的話都會提供給我們的調查小組委員讓他做審議的參考現在這整個是誰在主導因為還有更上位的小組審議誰是主持人是副秘書長嗎還是誰我們審議委員會的話有12個委員外務委員 主席是秘書長"},{"start":9655.14,"end":9677.285,"text":"是秘書長擔任主席嘛對不對但是我們之前會前的時候也有在開會因為他自己是北美協調委員會的小組委員他會自請迴避所以你是主席自請迴避完以後我們會委員互推代理主席"},{"start":9677.805,"end":9698.284,"text":"好 這個主席也很重要就是一定要很客觀的來審理所有的事實家屬需要真相 社會也需要真相那你們預計多久可以完成我昨天跟院長說希望一個月之內可以完成調查你們可以加快嗎我們規定是兩個月院長昨天也跟委員承諾我們會盡速的來完成但是我們不會刻意說拜託委員趕在一個月之內完成"},{"start":9703.308,"end":9715.461,"text":"我知道但是要加速好不好而且那個主要要接觸到真的知道真相的而且讓他願意講出事實這個才是關鍵好不好還原事實的真相最重要對好謝謝那你先請回我請那個勞動部我們洪部長"},{"start":9718.965,"end":9737.7,"text":"就是公安的問題 我很快的要幫我們這些從事演藝工作的臨演來請命因為我們看到現在這些臨演可能是我們現在安全網的破洞這個有調查 這個也是來自你們自己的調查52%從業者因公負傷 只有0.7%申請災保的給付"},{"start":9744.105,"end":9765.882,"text":"那最近爆發的這個案件呢他劇組從來沒有幫他保勞保或災保所以這樣一個情況等於是這是舊的數據最舊的 那最新的有改善嗎這是災保法之前的數據那你們現在更新的數據你告訴本席來對 但是這是確定這是災保法之前的那最新的你說"},{"start":9767.365,"end":9779.075,"text":"最近我們可能要再找一下可是目前的狀況因為災保法通過以後後來通過請工會協助然後等等等他的機制大概就不是這個數據了那為什麼這個臨演還是沒有災報"},{"start":9785.463,"end":9811.406,"text":"當然這個個案的狀況是可以檢討可是我說數據本身這不是現況的數據好啊 那你就告訴本席最新的數據對 那我覺得我們再來看一下有沒有最新的數據的話我再提供這樣好不好好 我要指出來是這邊還是有人沒有受到保障他的職業安全沒有受到保護特別是過去我們可能真的比較忽略臨時演員這一塊那因為有爆發這樣的一個事件我希望"},{"start":9811.846,"end":9831.525,"text":"你們可以好好的去改善這樣的一個現象那我這邊有三個建議我覺得這一些影視的這個臨時的演員勞工也不應該被拋棄他們還是應該要被好好照顧那第一個你們可不可以做到要求這一些臨演要百分之百投保這個職業災害保險"},{"start":9833.666,"end":9860.957,"text":"其實雖然他是臨演但是他還是可以請領的他還是可以請領的沒有投保的情況底下也可以請領跟委員報告只要他是受雇勞工是具有雇傭關係的他到職他就他是承攬他不是雇傭臨演現在被發現他只有承攬他不是雇傭這個個案是雇傭關係"},{"start":9862.453,"end":9883.168,"text":"這個是你們後來查到是雇傭是不是所以他是可以的根本說明這個案子發生之後我自己親自也主動找李遠部長那我們也針對目前對於這個影視圈的這個我們有指引嘛但我們也看到指引裡面其實確實有些不足沒有落實所以有指引裡面有不足之處"},{"start":9884.469,"end":9910.725,"text":"那也有一些部分在部分的比方說拍電視劇的部分特別不容易多好那我具體問你啦職業這個安全衛生自動檢查表要不要事先審查你們開會討論完之後需不需要他們現在是不用送的要不要要不要送審讓主管機關審核覺得你這個有做到因為有很多是爆破啊高空跳啊就是都是一些設計比較危險的那你們現在其實是沒有這個部分應該是會送影視局啦對"},{"start":9913.243,"end":9935.703,"text":"要嘛這是送隱私局會有一個自主檢查表對但是他們的那個對於職安的意識我們現在比較希望的方向是針對一些高風險的拍攝行為對那這些高風險的拍攝行為我們現在正在跟隱私局討論是不是應該想要設計一個這個在前端事前通報的機制所以"},{"start":9936.263,"end":9947.029,"text":"不只是這個安全衛生的部分尤其特別針對高風險的部分我們應該提前先掌握那這部分正在跟影視局還有跟業界那目前正在針對這個機制的討論正在討論中所以還沒有討論出來現在正在討論 對"},{"start":9951.451,"end":9976.942,"text":"好這個部分我要求你們要趕快討論出來這個的確是過去大家都會忽略大家看戲看得很過癮但是從來沒有好好去思考這些領演他在承受這些高風險的時候我們國家的制度政府的制度有沒有事先有一個比較強制性的要求跟檢核去確保他在那個過程當中的安全其實這個部分真的是被忽略其實我們的確看到這裡面政府會有一定的責任所以我們也跟"},{"start":9978.002,"end":10004.782,"text":"文化部在討論包括我們相對應的這些記錄其實都變成是應該變成文化部在補助的時候判斷的依據你們多久這個新的機制可以研議出來你們的目標跟委員報告其實目前在配合子安法裡面的附屬法規也有把這個部分放進來所以我們應該是會在六月底把這個法案做法所以會做修法會做母法的修正然後再做配合"},{"start":10005.382,"end":10030.693,"text":"這是隨著去年底職安法修法以後我們也希望把這一塊考慮進來放到附屬法規裡面所以應該我今天剛有說我們希望7月1號其實職安法的部分可以就附屬法規經過預告以後可以上路啦所以7月1號可以上路對我們希望是7月1號好我們希望在這一塊就是要補足就是我們去照顧到這些臨演他們的工作職業的安全好謝謝"},{"start":10033.822,"end":10056.018,"text":"謝謝王衍明委員的發言 接下來請廖偉祥委員質詢謝謝主席 那我們先請這個我們行政院的副秘書長 李副秘書長有請李副秘書長"},{"start":10063.123,"end":10089.455,"text":"你好李副秘好我想從這次的顏惠欣的個案我想大家都非常關心所以我想要先請教一下這個請問這個特任官顏惠欣副總談判代表是前年的5月底上任嘛5月底上任嘛對不對那請問她上任的人是不是因為談判辦公室的作業疏失導致她被延誤兩個星期才上任"},{"start":10094.042,"end":10107.071,"text":"有嗎你不曉得沒關係你曉得就說曉得不曉得就說不曉得這個這個訊息我們我們你不曉得好那請問一下李副我這個編制上副總談判代表有沒有專任的秘書"},{"start":10110.72,"end":10133.806,"text":"但是以下的問題都是你知道就說知道不知道就說不知道沒關係因為他是台美會的主任委員那他是兼任副總談判的代表所以基本上我們是應該是沒有配秘書的沒有專任秘書那他第一天上班就被拋銷這件事情行政院有沒有掌握這個我們不清楚我們是看到媒體媒體報導才知道"},{"start":10135.626,"end":10160.663,"text":"好,那再來呢,我想要請教一下李副秘書長,特仁館的顏慧欣副總談判代表是何時開始請病假的?不知道?去年9月的時候,就不細細。好,那請問一下他在這個今年2月19號,是大年初三的時候,在病榻前寫的這個辭職信,請問一下行政院是何時收到這封辭職信的?"},{"start":10161.778,"end":10182.623,"text":"那請問卓院長有沒有交辦這件事情?跟委員報告,那卓院長昨天回答王育敏委員的質詢的時候呢那他是有這樣子說啦,說他2月19號的時候呢那嚴副總有把這個訊息傳給行政院那個院長室的幕僚那幕僚有把這個訊息給院長看"},{"start":10183.183,"end":10203.914,"text":"那院長對他表達關心,但是也希望他好好休息休息好以後,病好以後,能夠繼續為國來效力所以換言之是沒有處理這個實質性?我們不知道你不知道就回答不知道沒關係,我就是在釐清一些問題而已"},{"start":10206.539,"end":10219.302,"text":"所以這個我想要請教一下那今年的2月23是年後上班的第一天那到了3月12號這個嚴副總代表他辭世請問你們有什麼中間有什麼任何的作為嗎"},{"start":10223.513,"end":10250,"text":"沒有不曉得因為我們根本不知道這個訊息所以其實我想要表達的就是今天的報告說行政院是3月26號才開始啟動調查嘛對不對那也就是說在3月24號的這種霸凌案被揭露之後被媒體揭露之後被媒體逼出來之後才在兩天的時間說要開始有動作所以這就是凸顯出從這個個案凸顯出"},{"start":10252.762,"end":10259.836,"text":"整個行政的失靈然後也凸顯出行政院的一個冷漠無作為"},{"start":10261.26,"end":10285.736,"text":"跟委員報告因為這過了很這個看起來這時間過了非常的久啊然後也是被媒體揭露之後才開始兩天的時間才開始說好那我們要來啟動調查我們事實上也是3月26號看到那個Tree的報導的時候他那個詳細的揭露那些事情的時候我們知悉這件事情我們馬上就組成那個專案小組要來釐清事實對所以你不覺得這裡面哪裡疏漏了嗎"},{"start":10292.509,"end":10301.044,"text":"因為我們是真的3月26號才知道的所以你這樣的講法就會讓這個我們覺得說那行政院長明明就知道了2月19號就知道了怎麼過了這麼多這麼久的時間沒有交辦沒有去請"},{"start":10306.005,"end":10328.448,"text":"這個下面的去相關了解這個案情的事情好等到媒體報了之後才匆匆的說我們趕快來調查這就是我今天想要從這個個案推出來讓大家覺得說哇這個很很嘩然喔讓社會嘩然怎麼會行政院長自己本身已經知道這件事情居然沒有請責成下下面的人去了解去關心"},{"start":10329.745,"end":10342.089,"text":"這就是現在大家在討論一個這個時間點的問題所以這部分我想要再進一步從這個個案推到這個系統性的問題我想要再請這個保訓會的處長保訓會處長"},{"start":10357.042,"end":10369.921,"text":"好 我想要請問兩位就是你們可以看是誰的執掌來負責回答所以首先我想要請教根據你們的114年度的職場霸凌防治執行的情形調查表"},{"start":10370.885,"end":10395.652,"text":"就是更深入探討了霸凌行為的層級關係跟行為樣態那表上呢也有顯示這個此項調查是自114年的7月1日到12月31日指對不對然後要求各機關詳實記錄所有受理的情形那這個統計的框架不僅包含了案件數啦也更深入的這個探討了霸凌行為的層級關係行為樣態那你們最後"},{"start":10398.72,"end":10406.702,"text":"要求的截止通報日是3月31號那今天是4月1號是不是想必你們資料是已經有收集完成了對嗎"},{"start":10410.034,"end":10430.24,"text":"各位委員報告這個部分因為還有少數的主管機關他還在彙整中像是一些縣市政府因為他下面所有機關其實很多那所以我們有已經在31號的時候我們另外有在行文去催請大家所以等於是說你本來說3月31號要要求這些資料回來還很多人沒有繳回來是這個意思嗎"},{"start":10430.6,"end":10450.606,"text":"一部分 並沒有很多就一部分是不是因為其實我們就是我本席也有在上週就有跟相關的單位包含人事總書有去索資喔那目前我是沒有得到回應所以我這邊想要請教喔第一個就是根據你們目前為止的資料喔你們統計的案件數前三名的部會是哪幾個"},{"start":10454.565,"end":10477.183,"text":"目前我們收到了其實還不齊全我們後續在整個整體收完之後我們還要再做進一步通所以目前還不知道是好所以你也沒辦法評估說哪三個是案件比較多的是好那再來第二個問題就是職場霸凌的申訴數量總共是多少結案數是多少你現在等於也沒辦法回答是"},{"start":10477.694,"end":10501.389,"text":"那再來第三個我想要了解的事情是職場霸凌申訴後霸凌者這個處分的份件數有幾件你們也沒有現在也都沒有有沒有初步的數據也都沒有這部分可能都得要等三月份的這一份那我剛剛問的這三個問題就是我本席想要希望你們等這個資料回來之後提供給本席辦公室讓我們了解好不好是"},{"start":10502.113,"end":10530.695,"text":"因為這份表格其實我覺得是相對相關是蠻完整的我希望你們可以盡快到時候去識別化之後也定期的公佈那我也想要提醒這個表格其實明確的也有規定說114年的7月1日前所有的案件數均不記錄所以事實上你們到現在還沒有辦法完全的拿到這些資料我也很好奇喔因為這個明明就已經這段時間已經很久了並不是說這個中間持續增加的還要他們"},{"start":10532.812,"end":10544.561,"text":"還要他們再補上去所以你也給了很多時間了這個部分要請你落實去追蹤要求相關的部會誰還沒有交回來的哪一些地方政府還沒交回來的你要趕快去跟他們要求好不好是好那再來就是"},{"start":10547.833,"end":10574.713,"text":"我想要 最後我也想要詢問 監察院有指出這個許多的機關的人事處在接收到霸凌陳情的時候常常為了顧及長官的顏面將其歸類為一般申訴導致案情沒有辦法進入法定的防護小組甚至也有報導指出這個經濟部的技術司案中即便有監察院的報告背書內部仍然會傳出說抓吹哨者的這個風聲"},{"start":10577.168,"end":10588.827,"text":"那這也反映出來我們公共機關其實在這個文化裡面對於異議的聲音極度的不耐受導致內部修正機制完全失靈請問這件事要怎麼改善"},{"start":10590.913,"end":10617.032,"text":"各位委員報告依照這個公務人員保障法跟安慰辦法的規定其實各機關對於提出這場霸凌申訴的人都不能給予不利對待或不合理的處分那相對於這件事情其實在保障法跟安慰辦法上路之後保訓會也陸續的到各個機關去做宣導跟教育然後我跟你說有一個很根本的問題就是你可以看到這個通報制度其實是有問題的"},{"start":10617.953,"end":10626.895,"text":"有很多基層的公務員向本辦公室反映他說現場現在的這個職場霸凌案件通報平台你要給不是要給他自然人憑證"},{"start":10627.728,"end":10655.831,"text":"就是要健保卡但但事實上也根本沒有人敢實名的使用啊對不對那這部分你要怎麼你要怎麼處理跟委員報告依照我們安慰辦法的規定提出職場霸凌申訴其實本來就應該要具名申訴的嗯也是避免說機關可能被少數的這個不當的爆料或者是不實的指控而導致整個行政作業上面是但是但是也是發生了這個問題嘛所以就是第一線也分是發生了所謂的實名通報"},{"start":10657.353,"end":10661.209,"text":"會讓人家不敢通報那你這部分你有什麼改善的想法"},{"start":10662.492,"end":10689.822,"text":"是那以目前來說我們都是要求各機關在收到職場霸凌申訴的時候都要在10天內去決定是否要受理同時他應該要通報上級機關那如果機關違反這樣的規定依照保障法沒有啊你這個規定都是一樣我懂你要表達的就是說你的規定依照這樣走可是現在就是發生了這個事嘛就是說他不敢通報嘛因為他怕通報上去他會知道說他通報了誰然後去指控他的"},{"start":10690.602,"end":10716.977,"text":"上級以後有不利對待他以後可能會被會被這個針對所以剛剛也有委員提到之前洪宣安部長就說不然你就直接直接寄到我的信箱我來直接來處理那請問你們現在這個部分你有什麼精進的想法或是作為因為大家就不信任這個還是你可以跟他們說請大家放心你這個你這個你這個東西到我這裡來絕對不會外洩外洩了會發生什麼事你這部分有辦法"},{"start":10718.086,"end":10747.057,"text":"承諾或者是怎麼改善嗎跟委員報告其實我們現在目前也在建置資產霸凌的申訴平台那這個平台建置之後其實所有的人他都可以以他的自然人憑證或者是健保卡直接在我們的平台上面做申訴那申訴之後他的案件就會記錄在那個平台上那你申訴完了之後上級機關也會收到你申訴完之後你要怎麼確保這件事情這樣或者是你要再去宣導說跟這些這個相關的公務部門的同仁說"},{"start":10747.717,"end":10770.476,"text":"你去用這個自然人憑證或是你用健保卡你來了我怎麼用保密機制讓你確保你的這個身份不會外洩不會被你的相關的直屬長官知道這個部分你們會怎麼做是這當然就關系到我們後續這個系統怎麼建制那以及我們也會對於那些可以使用這套系統的人的權限也會做劃分"},{"start":10770.996,"end":10787.802,"text":"那你要怎麼做 你現在有具體一點系統上 原則上啦 機關在看到這筆申訴案的時候其實他只會接收到有一筆申訴案 可是他不會去讀到就是讀到他實際上的申訴內容你說誰會拿到他有一筆申訴案 你說長官會說他被申訴了"},{"start":10792.765,"end":10812.404,"text":"機關通常都會有一個職場霸凌的申訴窗口那那個窗口的負責人我們就會給他一個權限讓他可以定期的去看一下那個系統上是不是有職場霸凌的申訴案那他看到那個申訴案之後他就可以知道是申訴人跟被申訴人但是他沒有辦法見到實際上的具體內容"},{"start":10813.445,"end":10834.063,"text":"申訴人跟被申訴人就是最大的問題啦不是嗎如果他在同一個機關裡你的譬如說我舉個例子啦就是我們紅部長假設你有一個司長他去申訴了然後到了這個部會裡面然後這個窗口知道說這個紅部長你被某司長申訴囉那這樣子不就會造成了他們不敢申報的原因嗎"},{"start":10835.494,"end":10850.561,"text":"這不就是現在我提出來的問題嗎就算是現在用書面上做申訴那個申訴的窗口他一定要知道是誰被誰申訴嘛那他才能再往後續把整個案件提交到防護委員會去做討論"},{"start":10851.821,"end":10865.748,"text":"所以你這個勿填這個機制會不會發生我剛剛說的這個問題就是申訴的從一個單位裡面的這個窗口他收到有申訴案了那知道某長官被某下屬這個申訴了那這個事情就可能會在那個機關單位傳出去"},{"start":10867.165,"end":10888.745,"text":"那傳出去之後大家就更不敢去申訴這件事所以我剛剛說從個案我們來檢討整個系統的問題這個系統現在是有問題的我是不是可以請你們回去把我的意見帶回去你們到底要怎麼做到不管是匿名匿名申報也好或者是你要用一個機制去告訴這些人說我這個絕對不會洩漏或者是洩漏了之後這個人要負什麼責任"},{"start":10890.28,"end":10908.565,"text":"這個部分你們是不是可以回去檢討然後給本席一個具體的方案可以跟委員報告依照我們安慰辦法的規定本來調查小組跟所有參與這項調查整個程序過程的人都具有保密義務所以你說這個所以你這個窗口本身就是也不能夠有透露"},{"start":10908.945,"end":10938.403,"text":"那他如果透露了之後他會有什麼責任當然會違反安慰辦法的規定那同時他可能也有公務人員考積法公務員服務法的相關追究好那你就要去好好的宣傳你給本席一個修改的建議修正的建議之後你也必須去各個單位機關跟這些公務人員跟他們掛保證說你要跟他說這件事情你去申訴了你用證人憑證申訴了你去實名申訴了你絕對不會有得到不利對待是"},{"start":10939.13,"end":10943.22,"text":"是不是 你要去做這件事那接下來我要請洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":10953.859,"end":10980.476,"text":"來 部長好我想要請教一下有關公安和老安的部分那依照勞動檢查法的第五條這個由中央主管機關設勞動檢查機構或授權直轄市主管機關或有關機關專設勞動檢查機構辦理之 對不對那授權之勞動檢查依法依本法啦 因依本法有關的規定辦理並受中央主管機關之指揮和"},{"start":10982.886,"end":10984.09,"text":"監督你們確實是有監督的權責對嗎是"},{"start":10988.507,"end":11010.528,"text":"好那根據這個你們在2025年的7月8號也有個新聞稿你們明確的定義說多次發生災害勞動檢查的機構也就是你們的職安署或與地方政府應該要擴大停工範圍並加嚴復工審查那是不是這樣子是那也顯見勞動部具有監督的責任對嗎"},{"start":11013.083,"end":11030.086,"text":"本來就有對本來就有好那我就想要請教一下因為衛科在高雄有某特定的建案那它已經屬於定類的危險性工作場所那麼它在2024年的3月2024年3月的時候有發生板模坍塌"},{"start":11031.087,"end":11041.659,"text":"而且在2025年的11月4日又發生這個工人高樓墜落死亡意外那其實已經符合你們所謂的多次發生災害的範疇那依照你們的規定應該要擴大停工範圍加強稽查那麼為何又在2026年呢他1月11號又發生了第三起"},{"start":11053.171,"end":11074.96,"text":"工地高處天降鐵板的意外然後你們在兩天內就有予以復工不管是你或地方政府有予以復工所以導致最後在兩個月後在2026年的3月24號第四度發生天降鋼板的意外砸死人這個時候就砸死人所以"},{"start":11076.04,"end":11102.661,"text":"這兩年內發生這個公安意外兩人死亡那你們治安署去年的督導考評中有沒有針對這個高雄勞檢處的復工審查流程提出過糾正或者是警告或者對於這兩年這四起反覆造災的這個高風險的工地中央有沒有啟動過任何專案督導或是書面要求或是復工的這個流程的檢視或考評的扣分"},{"start":11104.267,"end":11130.262,"text":"跟委員報告我們確實在停復工要點去年有修正那我們的認定還是職業災害就職業 職安法裡面所定義的職業災害那剛剛委員提到的這些案件就我們所知有部分的案件經過這個法官法醫或是檢察官他認定不是因工作引起的那就不會回到我們剛剛提到的這個這個停復工要點因為我們認定是職業災害 對"},{"start":11131.983,"end":11158.998,"text":"如果最近這一切是失業者還沒有錯好這個等一下我們會回來講我覺得這個是有一個流程上會有會發生問題喔所以其實你們也有說這個設施不良造災其他相同的處要全面檢討改善可是明明在這個部分1月11號你就有發生這個天降鋼板嘛對不對那後來讓它復工了復工了之後所以導致有人然後後來再次天降這個鋼筋砸壞兩台車一個小時之後再這個砸死人所以這個東西你剛剛這樣子歸類是不是"},{"start":11160.399,"end":11172.782,"text":"反而是沒有好好的去檢查他如果譬如說他已經掉下來你沒有砸到人這個工地他掉下來一個危險物品沒砸到人然後你就沒有去要求他或者是說示警他那"},{"start":11173.778,"end":11200.343,"text":"這只是剛好那裡沒有人而已嘛對吧第一個我們其實在去年下半年提出的減災計畫裡面其實也有一個是會針對高質災跟高危違規的這個監管的計畫那我想在這些相關的案件裡面我們都會來跟高雄市勞檢處來瞭解一下包括也跟他們在瞭解有沒有大家可以互相協助然後能夠把這樣子的一個"},{"start":11201.523,"end":11220.87,"text":"這樣子的一個公檢的案其實你們兩方不管是高雄市政府或者是你所以這次到底是要誰負這個督導的責任監督的責任當然這是高雄市勞檢處他要來進行這些這個相關的檢查的業務但是這個高雄市勞檢處當然也跟中央的部分也會有一些互相可以互相協助的關係"},{"start":11221.55,"end":11249.124,"text":"所以你要互相協助他但是這樣看起來是高雄市勞檢處沒有好好的去去檢討這方程流程嗎我沒有這樣子我沒有這樣因為政策當然是中央我們訂定的政策所以不管是減災計畫或者是剛才說強化停復工的計畫這都是中央提出來的可是我們當然也有義務來協助地方政府的檢查機構來照著這個政策的方向盡量的來落實所以我們也有這個部分的"},{"start":11249.304,"end":11263.871,"text":"所以你有沒有去檢討說他現在這個流程裡面到底他的檢查哪裡出了問題所以我說在這幾個案例裡面當然也有剛剛林組長說的裡面有部分的計畫他在檢查官的認定裡面他並不是職災也有這樣的部分可是我想"},{"start":11264.851,"end":11278.946,"text":"呃有職災的尤其是重大職災的案例的發生就是大家不樂見的我們都願意來跟相關的地方政府的檢查機構來多做一點關心跟了解來協助請問一下那你們有沒有依照你們頒布的這個職場檢災計畫你剛剛一直提到對這個案件同類樣態進行抽查啦或是複合你們有做這件事嗎"},{"start":11285.465,"end":11302.314,"text":"跟委員報告我們確實在去年下半年我們也有頒布一個高違規高職災的監管計畫那我們會就這個個案我們會要求高公司勞檢處是不是有符合我們的規範應該要列入這個所謂的列管的一個工地"},{"start":11303.174,"end":11319.502,"text":"對所以簡單來講我聽到現在你好像沒有去監督或是督導他們有沒有依照你們訂新的這個停工跟復工的要點去確實落實說他有沒有依照這個新規則去執行不是各位我們定期性或年度的考評"},{"start":11320.703,"end":11344.028,"text":"都有都有但是這個在執行上不可能每一個個案這個但是我們會假設這樣的案件我們會每個月去從我們的系統上去看對嘛它是屬於高違規所以你們有系統可以去看嘛我們所有的檢查都要進到我們中央的系統所以你們有個通報平台有你們有個通報平台對不對好那我想要請教一下你說你每個月去看那這件事情"},{"start":11346.169,"end":11365.806,"text":"不是每個月去看那個現場不是 我知道 就是這個通報平台嘛你們就是要透過通報平台才知道有沒有發生這件事 對嗎你們現在是要這樣嗎是 他如果有剛剛委員提到的被檢查 被罰還 被停工在我們的紀錄都會看到那如果是屬於我們列管的那我們就要提高檢查頻率還有提高罰還金額那這個案件有被通報嗎"},{"start":11366.947,"end":11391.413,"text":"這個案件一定通報一定有通報是不是一定有通報一定有通報嗎所以那這個部分勞檢單位可能他有介入嗎勞檢單位依照我們剛剛委員提到勞檢法跟相關的法規程序規範都會去做勞檢對都要去做勞檢所以你這個案子應該會有所以在通報平台上應該也要會有當然當然確定"},{"start":11393.396,"end":11421.333,"text":"我想要 所以我就想要問喔 但是我有去查齁我去查 這個是零筆 零筆資料欸我查不到這一件事情欸我上網去查 我根本查不到這件事啊甚至我也去看他的地圖 根本沒有這個案件啊那個 第一個公開網的部分 當然會跟我們他還通報的這個資訊系統不一定一樣 但我們可以來看一下就是說所以你說 那你如果不一樣的話 那你又何必 又需要這個網站呢"},{"start":11423.958,"end":11449.782,"text":"我跟你講我去你們重大職災公開網這個案件是一筆資料都沒有啊一筆資料都沒有那個他的關鍵字不一定是用凹子底啦好那再往下我沒有關鍵字沒有凹子底那我去看的地圖也沒有這個案件再往下再往下有個圖片好我有去看你們的公開的地圖地圖上也沒有這個案件"},{"start":11454.616,"end":11482.406,"text":"跟委員報告那整個只要經過我們檢查報告書經過我們中央核定以後他資料就要上傳那這個個案是不是我們會後把提供完整資料給委員所以你們就是有督導的疏失嘛所以因為你這個資料我根本完全查不到這件事情如果剛剛委員這個案子他剛發生剛發生 實在報告書要一到兩個月我們整個責任都釐清以後我們才允許他上去對 是這個部分那你這一到兩個月這個工地你們要怎麼處理"},{"start":11484.867,"end":11502.041,"text":"委員你把好幾件事情全部混在一起了第一個事情是資訊流的通報跟揭露這件事情他有他在這個職災上面責任認定的程序必須把這些相關責任認定的程序給走完他才能夠確認這筆資料相關的資料是如何"},{"start":11502.321,"end":11523.396,"text":"他才會放到相關的資訊公開的部分這是一個部分但是那個工地現場該怎麼處理這也會有一套系統所以這是不同的事情你把它好幾件事情沒有所以我剛剛是幫你開開來講所以我的問題也是問另外一件事就是說那這段時間因為我們最終我們要講的事情叫做你有沒有落實督導有沒有有沒有發生說你看他明明就掉了東西下來"},{"start":11524.136,"end":11538.673,"text":"然後呢因為沒有及時的去用嚴格的監督的管理規則讓他復工結果隔了兩個月之後又掉下來我就要表達的事情是你第一次發生的時候是剛好下面沒有人那你第二次發生的時候就砸到人了嘛"},{"start":11539.053,"end":11554.392,"text":"所以我現在要說的事情是說針對這個案例我想我們會請治安署來跟高雄市勞檢處針對這個案子目前處理到什麼樣子的程序來做一個更深入的瞭解因為這的確是地方政府的勞檢檢察機構在處理我們會來瞭解那我們會來跟他確認"},{"start":11558.157,"end":11583.66,"text":"他有沒有按照去年我們頒布的相關的這個政策跟機制來去處理我們會來跟他確認這件事情但他的確在這個案例上面也會有他要走的流程他的走的流程到目前 按照剛剛的承諾的話他到現在不一定這個流程你剛剛有說中央地方都有各自的責任然後他表達說你們的督導責任包含不管這個資訊的問題或者是他有沒有依照你們新規則去逐一的去執行落實"},{"start":11584.801,"end":11606.496,"text":"這件事情是你們的督導責任然後再來就是你們地方政府上面他有沒有落實做這件事情所以我要表達的是你這個公安和勞安其實你在這個個案你就可以發現說一個很奇妙的地方他第一次砸下來之後只是剛好沒有人那後面呢你很快的復工之後好大概兩個月後你如果沒有落實檢查這些要點"},{"start":11607.096,"end":11631.71,"text":"他再砸下來的時候 剛好下面有人 哇那就一個工人就這樣子過世了這個狀況的發生都是我們不樂見的情況我們都不樂見 所以我們願意跟地方政府我們願意跟地方政府來加強這部分的督導我想這部分我們願意跟地方政府來做所以我想要跟你說的事情是第一個你們好像不願意承認你們在資訊流上面請你們回去檢討一下然後給本席辦公室檢討的報告為什麼我去查 查不到"},{"start":11632.25,"end":11648.466,"text":"然後有四起我會說過去這個工地就有四起可是我在網站上是一筆都查不到但是你剛剛在質詢前面又跟我說你們都有落實登記所以這件事情本席希望會後給本席辦公室一個通報我還是要再強調這個案件他一定會有通報但通報以後他"},{"start":11649.107,"end":11677.621,"text":"他去處理的程序會要走到一定處理的程序以後他才會放上一個公開揭露的系統因為如果他沒有走完一個一定處理的程序的時候他放上公開揭露的系統他的資訊不一定是完整跟正確的所以公開揭露的部分跟內部的通報這是兩件事情那我想要請問一下前面有一個53歲工人他在之前就有意外墜樓也很久了也很久以前那為什麼他還是沒有上你們這個公開系統呢"},{"start":11678.8,"end":11695.594,"text":"這我們來...剛剛有說明齁那個公開網是職業災害因為工作而引起的如果這個個案就目前我們了解它不是跟工作有相關性所以它不是職業災害就是不能...不是職業就不是在我的平台去公布"},{"start":11695.954,"end":11714.516,"text":"所以你的意思就是這就是我們剛剛講的就是這兩件事情你可能要去看一下這件事情它要怎麼在資訊上面串起來因為不管是公安或是這個職災我覺得這個東西你們要去想一下這個流程上第一階段發生了這個事你們要嚴格的去要求不要再發生坍塌"},{"start":11715.157,"end":11744.02,"text":"掉下來 這個是不是要特別示警至少這個案例我們會重點來關注那過去 剛才講的你剛才應該是講你現在投影片上面的第二起事件是後來檢察官認定他不是職業災害他是他新陰性的原因對好 你看著這個 好 OK但是我還是要講在天降鐵板這兩個關係所以我說我們願意重點來關注請你們這個會後之後再提供給本席辦公室為什麼我的質疑的點好 謝謝"},{"start":11745.27,"end":11754.604,"text":"好 謝謝廖小雄委員的諮詢本會收到臨時提案進行處理我們現在處理臨時提案既有疑案請宣讀"},{"start":11758.018,"end":11785.552,"text":"衛生福利部已明確布達醫事人員完成繼續教育積分授訓時間屬工作時間雇主應給予工價為今日仍有醫事人員反映醫院沒有給予工價為維護醫事人員勞動權已請勞動部將醫事人員完成繼續教育積分授訓時間屬工作時間雇主應給予工價納入醫療專案勞檢項目並請於一個月內提出書面報告與立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提案委員邱慧如邱振鈞陳金輝宣讀完畢"},{"start":11787.801,"end":11809.034,"text":"請問本案行政單位有意見報告主席能不能麻煩在倒數第二行再加三個字請勞動部將醫事人員依法應完成繼續教育積分之後"},{"start":11810.356,"end":11825.908,"text":"再加三個字就好了依法應完成繼續教育積分授訊時間屬工作時間就加三個字就可以好 黃部長我想我們這邊也OK那我們對這個案子我想我們會很願意"},{"start":11830.256,"end":11855.204,"text":"那全員來推動 因為這也是我在當立委的時候我其實有推動過的議題好 委員有意見好 謝謝 謝謝勞動部還有衛福部這邊對於我們這一項的提案就是願意來協助跟願意來配合那可不可以請一個月內提出書面報告給衛環委員會好 謝謝那我們就修正通過"},{"start":11858.734,"end":11862.998,"text":"臨時提案全部處理完畢 接下來繼續詢問 請黃秀芳委員質詢謝謝主席 我們先請那個勞動部紅部長 請紅部長"},{"start":11888.665,"end":11907.723,"text":"在前幾天我們有特別提到就是在4月份我們即將就是開放家有12歲以下子女的這個家庭可以申請外籍幫傭那現在就是兒童節快到了那也蠻多家長有特別提到就是說我們"},{"start":11909.665,"end":11923.941,"text":"當孩子生病的時候家長可能把一年當中的試駕、有薪駕全部都用上了往往都還不夠因為孩子有時候常病毒"},{"start":11925.583,"end":11950.713,"text":"一請假可能就是在家可能就是一個禮拜兩個禮拜的這個時間那我想請教部長就是說我們當時我們現在4月份開始就是開放這個12歲以下的這個子女的家庭可以申請外籍幫佣那這個確實可以解決這個孩子們如果這個當生病的時候那這個"},{"start":11954.176,"end":11960.571,"text":"確實12歲以下在家裡面我們開放這樣的外籍幫傭是不是真的可以解決這樣的一個問題"},{"start":11962.29,"end":11985.078,"text":"跟委員說明其實剛剛委員講的情境是很多現在家長都會遇到的那這個情境裡面可能有包括緊急性的狀況臨時性狀況有可能不是緊急性可是也還是希望減少負擔的部分所以我們其實有幾個相關的政策當然這個現在的外籍辦公的心智是其中一個"},{"start":11985.638,"end":12010.741,"text":"但如果剛剛委員在講的中我們其實最新的這個讓育嬰留庭可以以日來請小孩三歲以前以日來請那三歲以前有30天平均每年有10天其實也可以支應剛剛剛剛委員講到的這樣子的需求尤其是現在蠻多的家長都用這個以日來請來去來去因應就像小孩突然生病或腸病毒的這個做法那我們在數據上也看到使用的程度是蠻高的"},{"start":12012.583,"end":12027.743,"text":"確實現在還有很多家長一直在反應就是說孩子們一旦生病然後再加或者是這個班級這個幼兒園班級有人藏病毒然後就需要全班就是不能到學校嘛"},{"start":12028.163,"end":12046.051,"text":"那家長就會碰到類似這樣的一個狀況那我想這個部長可不可以建議可以去參考一下這個我們的鄰近國家像日本他們有一個這個病兒的保育然後我也想請教一下我們的這個衛福部次長"},{"start":12047.151,"end":12059.44,"text":"就是說鄰近國家有這樣子針對孩子們如果生病或者是因為班級有人傳病毒不能再到學校可能就一個禮拜兩個禮拜的時間"},{"start":12062.662,"end":12088.017,"text":"我們有沒有可能來發展成就是說家長可能他的假可能也都請完或者是可能也不適合請假或沒辦法請假的這個狀況那是不是有沒有去考慮一下就是病兒的這個保育這樣的一個制度來產生是不是有沒有可能把這樣的一個制度來長出來我是不是可以請教一下次長"},{"start":12089.457,"end":12116.816,"text":"非常感謝黃委員對這個問題的關心我們知道確實家長有這個需求但是我站在惠福部的立場我們就考慮兩件事第一個就是說小朋友確實抵抗力比較差那如果說真的有這個狀況的話盡可能恐怕就是說這個托育人員跟醫護人員他的角色我們建議恐怕還是要分清楚就是說六種控制"},{"start":12119.498,"end":12143.698,"text":"當然一定要有醫生第一個就是帶到醫院現在目前的狀況可能就是家長自己照顧或是阿公阿嬤有的他本身就因為班級有人染腸病毒整個班級就沒辦法再到學校去那可能就是留在家裡面有的是爸爸媽媽自己請假或者是阿公阿嬤自己帶那類似這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":12146.74,"end":12170.945,"text":"有的家長可能我剛剛講的他的假可能都請完了確實也需要有人協助他我剛剛講的鄰近的國家有這樣的一個制度當然這個制度也不是那麼的完善總是會有人覺得說這個病兒的保育第一個"},{"start":12171.665,"end":12198.959,"text":"尤其是在高峰期的時候譬如說腸病毒的高峰期那這個可能也一味難求或者是這個制度或這種病而保育的這樣的一個環境其實也不是每個地方都有所以我在想說我們勞動部或衛福部有沒有可能就是說也可以參考鄰近的國家有這樣的一個制度來產生是不是有可能"},{"start":12200.3,"end":12222.806,"text":"包委員這樣好不好我覺得委員這個想法很好反正日本那邊也有這個案例我們是不是可以允許我們來研究好不好我們來待會研究也跟委員報告其實勞動部這邊也非常非常幫忙我們現在目前因應我們現在目前的整個這一個12歲以下這個部分我們其實賴總統他也非常關心就是社會投資其實我們現在目前家庭都面臨轉型"},{"start":12224.427,"end":12249.25,"text":"這裏面有很多都需要我們的整個托育還有我們的整個像我們現在目前衛福部也推出了育兒指導員我想很多都相關的人力我們都會有一個 老總部這邊會有一個計畫來讓我們的保姆他這邊能夠有多元的一些整個其實雙薪家庭確實碰到這樣的一個問題尤其是孩子如果生病的時候家裡面又沒有人可以幫忙的"},{"start":12250.41,"end":12271.741,"text":"確實會造成他蠻大的一個困擾是不是有可能就是有這樣的一個制度來產生我覺得也可以去研究一下我們來研究好不好那接下來我想請教次長就是說其實我們都一直在擔心就是說少子化這個議題這個逐年這個我們的新生兒逐年一直在減少"},{"start":12272.842,"end":12282.334,"text":"那你看到這個數字你會不會覺得很可怕去年是10萬出那你今年預計我們的新生兒會有多少人"},{"start":12283.175,"end":12307.483,"text":"會不會比去年還要再少那如果是這樣子的話我覺得整個育兒環境如果沒有改善的話其實我覺得年輕人不婚不生的這個狀況我是覺得是會越來越嚴重所以我一直在講說這個少子化是這個國安的議題確實我覺得我們政府應該要多花一些時間去"},{"start":12309.263,"end":12329.067,"text":"去研究去檢討把我們的育兒環境做好那我今天剛剛看到一則新聞就是高雄的一位市議員在質詢的說質詢高雄市長就是說如果生第三胎送一棟房子怎麼樣想說這個是政府這個可能不是政府做的來的就是說我們應該針對少子化的這個部分怎麼樣讓我們的育兒環境更好"},{"start":12336.408,"end":12357.807,"text":"那政府就是要做好這個支援整個支持的背後的這個系統可能也要都要做好讓他能夠無後顧之憂他才敢婚敢生嘛其實我們在地方都會碰到很多類似我們這種年紀小孩可能也都是室溫年齡了然後那他們也會很擔心就是說"},{"start":12358.607,"end":12379.099,"text":"我們的下一代可能就是不想結婚那當然就是有結婚可能有這個生的這個機會就比較大那連結婚的這個念頭都沒有的話這我覺得真的是我們要好好去思考怎麼樣讓整個育兒環境能夠更好那今年的這個新生兒的比例會不會比去年又更少"},{"start":12379.919,"end":12397.696,"text":"我覺得這個真的是一個很嚴重的問題我覺得這個應該是勞動部跟或者是我們衛福部跨部會要去檢討的一個議題我們現在目前其實有一個少子女化計畫那我想這裡面其實可是我覺得成效不彰"},{"start":12400.047,"end":12423.547,"text":"我覺得成效不長如果說真的有用的話不可能每一年的這個新生兒的比例是逐年再降低所以也正因為這樣所以說其實總統他自己在提出我們現在目前有提出了這一個3歲以下我想這基本上也是希望能夠用多元的方式我們有報告其實全世界各國處理這個問題不外乎就三個策略就是給錢 給服務 還有給時間"},{"start":12427.31,"end":12454.283,"text":"給錢的話其實我們現在目前有育兒今天0到6歲然後給服務決定我們現在目前在加強在推動我也要利用這個機會跟大家鄭重來講就是說我們的公托一定是加倍然後我們的整個家外送托比例現在32對不對我們會提高到36第三個其實最重要是給時間那勞動部這邊其實也已經有通過育嬰留庭論日還有我們家庭照顧假論時這個都是一些彈性化的措施我知道說"},{"start":12456.204,"end":12461.268,"text":"可能要不久,所以我們會加強我們現在目前會有一連串的一個方案當然站在主管機關,我們當然希望就是說不能夠再補了我是覺得今年這個數字可能會再往下掉"},{"start":12476.419,"end":12503.859,"text":"這確實真的很嚴重我覺得真的如果不花一些時間花一些預算在這上面我覺得這個真的對整個國家未來的競爭力確實是一個危機是一個危機所以我希望就是說因為也即將兒童節放年假大家都非常的開心我覺得政府應該要去想到怎麼樣讓我們的育兒環境能夠更好讓年輕人敢婚敢生"},{"start":12505.16,"end":12530.817,"text":"政府應該要投入更多的資源我覺得這一點當然就是說如果可以像那個有的民意代表提到那我是不是可以解決住的這個問題我覺得這個也是很棒只是說政府是不是有這個能力所以我認為就是說應該要投入更多的資源來解決這樣的一個少子女化的問題好不好真的要"},{"start":12531.84,"end":12559.368,"text":"多投入一些心思在上面要不然我覺得真的是還蠻蠻嚴重的以前我們當民意代表的時候這個假日可能跑通話最多可能就是那個結婚喜宴嘛那現在結婚喜宴一個月不到一次不到一場兩場真的很可怕所以我覺得真的真的政府要投入更多的資源在這上面真的是沒錯沒錯我知道那個黃董事長一直以來都非常關切這個問題我們這個也會"},{"start":12561.87,"end":12567.514,"text":"回去跟院那邊來報告好謝謝感謝委員謝謝謝謝黃雄光委員的諮詢接下來請圖全景委員諮詢好謝謝主席那請我們保訓會蔡處長和行政院副秘書長好請蔡處長及副秘書長"},{"start":12599.841,"end":12616.551,"text":"委員好好我先請問一下處長那如果公務人員遭受霸凌我們通常是依據什麼法規來處理公務人員報告是依照公務人員保障法以及公務人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法的規定"},{"start":12618.178,"end":12640.499,"text":"好那根據工人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法裡面他有一個各機關應組成安全及衛生防護委員會那就是我們講防護委員會他在處理職場霸凌的事件那通常他都上面有寫通常是由機關的副首長或者幕僚長來擔任召集人"},{"start":12641.5,"end":12666.838,"text":"對嘛然後其中當然也會聘請我們相關的專家學者不能少於三分之一這是我們裡面的處理辦法的條例那像我們這一次爆發我們研會新副代表這個高階談判代表的事件那他上面就是我們的政務委員跟行政院那他的法規上所以看起來應該"},{"start":12669.642,"end":12685.031,"text":"他的機關副首長應該就是我們的行政院副院長鄭麗君那他的幕僚長就是我們的經貿談判代表楊真彌不是這樣是嗎如果照你規章的話"},{"start":12686.499,"end":12706.247,"text":"各位委員報告那行政院本部目前也有設置防護委員會那我們總共有12位委員那裡面有5位是外聘的那我們的召集人是我們的幕僚長 秘書長對 但是我剛剛講的那兩位其實也是可以擔任只是你這次是因為迴避嘛"},{"start":12707.864,"end":12734.406,"text":"所以請秘書長來擔任這次的召集人不是 我們那是常設的編組好 那重點是這次我們我看我們這次行政院昨天下午提的這份專案報告那召集人是我們行政院的秘書長秘書長行政院秘書長他提這個報告那針對這部分報告說是依據我們行政院院本部職場霸凌防制申訴及調查處理的要點"},{"start":12735.347,"end":12760.049,"text":"那我想請問一下這個要點是什麼時候公布的去年年底那奇怪那這個為什麼這要點我們在網路上都查不到我們行政院本部有這個要點我們有做內部公告但是所以是有這個要點只是我們查不到所以我想了解說因為我們都查不到這個要點"},{"start":12762.076,"end":12776.837,"text":"然後一般來講像我們很多像司法院環境部各單位都有公布這個要點而且他針對這個委員會的名單都有訂定都有公布反而我們行政院這邊我們是看不到的"},{"start":12777.833,"end":12793.026,"text":"所以我在想說到底是不是有這個要點還是因為這次事情發生我們才去成立這個要點去做處理沒有 這個我們是根據保訓會的安慰辦法然後修我們自己的內規然後再重新設立"},{"start":12794.207,"end":12817.244,"text":"好 那重點就是我們當然也看得到像我們成立這個調查小組如果當事人關係人雖然他有可能是我們機關副首長或者幕僚長但是如果跟他有相當的關係的話當事人當然是一定要迴避的嘛所以這次由秘書長擔任是沒有問題但是我們疑義的是"},{"start":12818.362,"end":12835.171,"text":"其實秘書長來去做這個調查小組的召集人但是副院長跟幕僚長跟他的關係也是相當密切那會不會對於這個中立性或者政治力的介入我覺得大家是有疑義的"},{"start":12835.991,"end":12861.883,"text":"跟委員報告這一次的調查小組的話我們四位都是外聘委員完全沒有我們內部的委員參與調查出來以後他會寫結案報告結案報告我們會送到防護委員會來開會原先防護委員會的召集人是我們的秘書長他因為也是我們對美貿易小組的成員所以他會自請迴避"},{"start":12863.543,"end":12885.139,"text":"所以這份報告來提會討論的時候他會自請迴避自請迴避的時候我們委員之間會互為代理推舉一個主席來主持這個會議好12位裡面有4位是外聘的有5位是外聘的5位是外聘的就是外聘的專家學者那其他的部分是我們行政院內部的機關的人員那"},{"start":12888.142,"end":12894.92,"text":"這一次的調查小組 那我請問一下這個外部的人員外部聘任是由誰去聘任 由誰來挑選"},{"start":12896.823,"end":12913.517,"text":"外部聘任的話,因為這次保訓會是修改了規定以前我們就有性騷的成員,以前也有霸凌的小組這次我們是把他合併起來,我們就是用原來的委員來繼續留任"},{"start":12920.043,"end":12939.342,"text":"因為我們據我們了解啦其實這外聘委員還是由我們機關裡面去聘任的所以就算這12人裡面有7個是我們機關的成員另外5個雖然是外部聘任可是挑選聘任還是由我們機關的人員去聘任所以我們認為這個公正性"},{"start":12941.003,"end":12959.458,"text":"其實有待考量啦那尤其像這次我們顏慧欣副代表的事件據我們了解其實她進去之後去年9月份就因為壓力很大就開始請病假就開始請病假之後2月19號請辭王一鳴委員質詢的時候院長也"},{"start":12965.962,"end":12991.858,"text":"當場就有承認說2月19號池城裡面他已經知道他有陳情因為工作上的這些的問題所以2月19號也就池城提出來卓院長也知情這件事情也知悉了那到12月到3月12號那個顏慧欣副代表往生結果也沒有看到去調查這件事情那當然"},{"start":12993.656,"end":13010.972,"text":"這個事情我們真正社會大眾知道是3月26號我們社群網站披露之後我剛剛也有聽我們副秘書長講因為社群網站在3月26號披露之後我們才正式成立調查小組去調查做處理沒有錯吧那所以"},{"start":13015.663,"end":13044.949,"text":"我們今天要討論的就是我覺得我們這個機制上應該是有一些問題啦你這個霸凌申訴的管道你看12個成員裡面7個就是我們機關裡面的成員5個外聘也是由機關去挑釁那等於12個都是你們決定啊那試問顏惠心代表9月份因為壓力太大你看連這個高階代表都不敢申訴何況一般的公務人員"},{"start":13045.769,"end":13057.019,"text":"而且到2月19號連卓院長之息辭呈的原因那我請問一下後來卓院長有交代處理嗎"},{"start":13058.56,"end":13087.099,"text":"跟委員報告那昨天左院長回覆王委員的說明的時候他是說他2月19號的時候有收到那個院長辦公室的幕僚拿轉來的訊息他知道有這件事情那他也交代幕僚要下去關心除了關心以外也希望那個嚴副總談判代表的話他好好休養身體康復以後繼續來為國服務是給他慰留的啦不是所以"},{"start":13088.301,"end":13089.163,"text":"我有聽副秘書長講啊所以其實你們都不知道這件事情所以"},{"start":13093.867,"end":13119.58,"text":"講實在話就是沒有交辦去調查嘛對不對當時我們是真的沒有調查因為你剛剛我有聽嘛你回答其他委員說你們根本不知道這件事情是後來王育民委員提出質詢你們才知道原來2月19號院長就知道那知道之後你們不清楚就表示沒有交辦那結果我們原來調查小組的成立我們這些機制看起來都沒用"},{"start":13120.711,"end":13147.607,"text":"而且連行政院長知道也沒處理真正調查小組成立的關鍵點在哪裡原來在社群網站披露之後我們調查小組才依輿論成立調查小組所以這個機制跟行政院長其實看起來都沒有處理這件事情難怪一般的公務人員認為這個申訴管道基本上是沒有效益的而且"},{"start":13149.689,"end":13156.96,"text":"剛剛講12個委員7個是你機關的人另外5個還是機關指定你不覺得一般公務員敢申訴嗎"},{"start":13159.392,"end":13188.627,"text":"跟我們報告我們近兩年來的時候我們確實也有一些霸凌的申訴案我們也運作這個機制的時候其實也是很順利的運作因為我們參加委員會的同仁的時候大家都有一個認知因為你處理事情一定要公正客觀然後你對執行職務的部分的時候你要做保密的義務基本上我自己的觀察我們這一兩年來我們在運作上的時候我們都確保這兩個大前提"},{"start":13189.187,"end":13218.037,"text":"不是啊你保密我們接受啊重點根本沒有辦啊我沒有叫你公開啊問題是確實你也承認從2月19號院長知道之後也沒有處理也沒有交辦所以我說這個事情你看從之前勞動部現一種職場霸凌的事件我們開始一直爆發我們整個行政體系職場霸凌的事情我說講啊人之將死其言也善啊"},{"start":13219.724,"end":13236.126,"text":"連我們顏惠心都已經在加護病房病他上提出辭呈而且很明確講辭職的原因就是因為在職場上在行政院和工作上遭受到"},{"start":13237.502,"end":13266.286,"text":"職場的霸凌已經講得很清楚了而且還是沒處理最後處理還是因為3月26號社群網站披露不用人交辦原來只要媒體披露自然調查小組就成立了所以這個申訴機制包含我們的行政院的最高行政首長也都沒處理試問我們民眾對政府公部門這個公信力怎麼會有信心"},{"start":13269.261,"end":13288.419,"text":"所以我希望喔保訓會啊保訓會針對剛剛本席提的這些問題啊我們講啊我們沒有超前部署也沒有及時處理我們只好退而求其次啊拜託亡羊補牢總可以吧"},{"start":13289.713,"end":13307.91,"text":"希望後續針對我們剛剛講的這些文官體制這些後續研議它的方向跟你們要怎麼去做可不可以提出來怎麼去研議怎麼去改善我們這些申訴管道的機制你想想看12個委員7個內部聘的"},{"start":13310.956,"end":13337.783,"text":"五個聽起來很好聽外部專家學者但是這都是你決定要用誰就用誰啊連陳情到行政院長也沒處理我們這個申訴管道基本上我覺得漏洞百出所以難怪職場霸凌的問題層出不窮保訓會是不是後面可以給我們提出一個書面演繹如何去改善這個方向要怎麼去做"},{"start":13339.38,"end":13367.041,"text":"可以提出這書面報告嗎我希望這個事情我們一直講從去年勞動部發生到現在而且從勞動部發生之後我們才發現這個事情層出不窮而且每次都等到人往生之後才去檢討這件事情我說今天這個事情如果不是在3月26號社群網站披露"},{"start":13367.802,"end":13383.457,"text":"我們怎麼知道原來2月19號他的辭呈早就像行政院長說的清清楚楚但是根本連辦都沒有辦連處理都沒有處理連行政院都不知道這件事情是不是保訊會後面亡羊補牢吧"},{"start":13386.107,"end":13398.167,"text":"總委員報告一下就是行政院這個案子其實他是非因申訴而之襲那如果前面他收到包含像是社群媒體所接收到的資訊甚至是像行政院長收到的簡訊類似這一類的資訊"},{"start":13401.347,"end":13429.932,"text":"對於機關來說他還是必須要進行一部分的去認定啦所以我剛剛有講啦之後才會進到防護委員會處長我剛剛有講啦所以我剛剛為什麼說外部委員的成員的性質應該是沒有什麼關係啊所以我剛剛有講啦你看我們根據公務人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法這個防護委員會他裡面他規章召集人是我們機關的副首長跟幕僚長"},{"start":13431.092,"end":13458.289,"text":"可是很有可能這個召集人就是當裡面的關係人也有可能就是當事人再加上你另外就算聘的召集人也是他的下屬啊他怎麼去執行他是不是在調查過程中是不是還要回去請示他的長官可不可以這樣子調查然後12個委員會裡面7個都是你們自己人連另外唯一的5個還是由你們指定來聘任"},{"start":13459.15,"end":13487.009,"text":"哪裡來的公信力難怪現在這個霸凌事件層出不窮每次爆發都是人往生之後再來檢討我說啊從去年前年等等發生了那麼多事情勞動部霸凌事件就說要深切的檢討到現在也沒超前部署也沒有及時處理又要亡羊補牢所以我覺得保訓會希望你真的提出一個研議的方向跟改善的辦法"},{"start":13489.754,"end":13515.062,"text":"好謝謝好謝謝圖千鈞委員的發言待會陳穎委員質詢完畢後休息20分鐘用餐現在請林淑芬委員質詢好現在主席是不是請我們洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":13523.291,"end":13536.245,"text":"林委員好部長上次我在這裡質詢你關於開放12歲以下這個有子女的家庭進行申請外勞這個家事服務員的這個政策"},{"start":13537.422,"end":13564.53,"text":"走出去外面然後就有人來陳情了我們立法院裡面的職員工他就說他們真的很可憐因為他爸爸中風而他們的外籍移工因為知道了這個政策以後馬上就跟他說他要換轉換僱主他要去顧小孩比較他優先想要去選擇顧小孩的工作"},{"start":13566.114,"end":13594.233,"text":"這個是立法院的職員工我走出去人家就馬上來說那我中風的家人怎麼辦誰要顧所以我就想說難道我們的外籍移工我們所謂的外勞現在變成開放外勞來照顧弱勢照顧中風的照顧失能的要變成照顧最強勢的照顧最有錢的照顧優勢的嗎"},{"start":13596.295,"end":13601.952,"text":"因為大家都知道不是每一個有孩子的父母都請得起外勞"},{"start":13603.919,"end":13625.91,"text":"而大概會只有所得大概所得台灣人的全部的所得分成五等份第一等份的前五分之一的家庭才有能力去負擔去申請家庭邦傭的外勞而這個所得就是年所得要大概兩三百萬兩三百萬的所得的家庭才請得起"},{"start":13631.929,"end":13657.588,"text":"所以我從來沒有想到說有一天從照顧弱勢變成照顧最優勢最強勢的那就算了你們有沒有配套你可不可以永遠不覺得外勞提供到我就沒話說了他不但是這樣子要留住既有照顧中風和失能的外勞一個失能的家庭要留住這個外勞你知道他還要給他加多少薪水嗎"},{"start":13658.815,"end":13663.687,"text":"你不給他加薪 他要跑掉他就是要走那要加多少薪水啊"},{"start":13669.868,"end":13698.415,"text":"我可以說明嗎你說啊我們其實在去年8月的時候我們其實有做法規的修訂那是針對這個在家庭看護如果要轉換的話那在程序上應該要由這個重症家庭來優先來承接那必須符合14天內優先這個媒合給重症家庭那是要在沒有重症家庭承接的狀況之下我現在要問你圖法不足以自行"},{"start":13699.295,"end":13713.961,"text":"你講這個都是道理講說你有配套這個都行不通啊他就每天跟你吵架我上個禮拜不是跟你講了嗎他就每天說你要讓我出去你要合意合意讓我走但是就算轉出去也是要優先讓中等家庭承接啊會嗎 是嗎現在法規修訂是這樣子的是嗎 有罰則嗎有罰則嗎要處罰仲介還是處罰外籍移工"},{"start":13728.581,"end":13746.149,"text":"有罰則嗎那個在轉換的順序上面我們有我現在問你說你有什麼處分的機制否則這個形同道德勸說你會處罰仲介嗎你會處罰外籍移工嗎你要換僱主要轉出去你不知道部長你不知道還要官僚告訴你所以你對這個配套你不知道嗎"},{"start":13757.391,"end":13783.428,"text":"這個機制存在而且在我們優先媒合的順序上面就是提供優先媒合那我就不走那個我就要直接轉去有人要我就要小孩如果違反的話就會把他送出去我現在問你如果違反的話就會在60天內就會把他送出去所以你是懲罰這個外籍移工喔最好是喔不要在這裡如果惡性代工如果惡性代工他不按照我們的法規你這個如果就太離譜了叫惡性代工"},{"start":13784.489,"end":13795.014,"text":"他沒有惡性代工啊 我怎麼證明你怎麼證明他惡性代工他每天跟你玩遊戲沒在理你生氣 你如果生氣 你要把他當手啊你就說你不行了多少人是這樣生氣了受不了大吵大罵以後對外籍移工就動手了他就可以合法的轉換僱主了你在講的前提都是都是不食人間煙火的都沒有務實的"},{"start":13813.775,"end":13826.721,"text":"事實上就是吵架以後就可以轉換了事實上就是他不想要照顧重度失能的然後他就要去照顧小孩了事實上就是你沒有足夠的外勞來支撐"},{"start":13830.134,"end":13853.53,"text":"所以你讓移工市場外勞要留住他的經費 薪水大幅上升是啊 就是這樣子啊我們要講的是說 一個弱勢關懷出身的部長你端出這一種搶台灣人工作的政策讓台灣 欸 照顧小孩 家庭幫傭台灣不是找不到工耶 都有人在做耶"},{"start":13858.001,"end":13864.666,"text":"照顧小孩 不管是居家保姆不管是什麼樣的都收拓單位然後 欸少子化 今年生幾個孩子今年我都生十萬了有沒有越來越少的狀況整體的市場在萎縮然後保姆就是這樣子在那裡托兒中心在那裡你還要開放人家來搶保姆的生意"},{"start":13885.575,"end":13898.581,"text":"家庭幫傭 終點費的家庭家事服務工台灣人幫傭然後這個清潔工煮飯的都有人在做欸你開放人家來搶他們工作"},{"start":13899.69,"end":13911.135,"text":"你說台灣看護 本籍看護也有人耶 所得 台灣前五分之一所得的有錢人有在調的 現在也在搶耶 也在搶榜樣耶 其實是台灣人比較貴你現在讓外籍移工可以搶 他媽想台灣的市場多小的"},{"start":13923.052,"end":13936.762,"text":"你這個政策第一個搶走了台灣人的工作第二個本來在照顧最需要的台灣人沒人要做的家庭失能的 中風的 重度殘障的這一個移工我們大家不該做啊所以台灣人失業外籍勞工缺工外勞缺工"},{"start":13950.205,"end":13975.314,"text":"重度癱瘓在那裡就沒人要走所以現在這樣叫人情何以堪啊你是弱勢關懷出身的部長然後你端出一個這樣的政策叫台灣人失業 叫外籍勞工缺工叫有錢的人 能夠入省籍 可以請到鄉的叫窮的人 乾坤的人 中風的家庭請沒人"},{"start":13979.609,"end":13993.557,"text":"這樣子怎麼行呢這樣子怎麼行呢然後你剛剛在這裡一開始你就報告了你說啊為了一間夜間啦臨時需求的沒人顧孩子啦所以呢"},{"start":13994.952,"end":14010.968,"text":"你們要開放這個外籍幫傭 兼顧小孩啦然後呢 你剛才又回答立委蘇貞欣問你說因為現在有長輩當後援的家庭越來越少了需要人手 所以開放了"},{"start":14012.097,"end":14019.54,"text":"寶庭 我問你 你是羅東寶寶庭 還是衛福部部長啦夜間臨時需求 拖兒育兒 這不是衛福部的業務嗎沒有長輩後援 所以你要開放外籍幫傭現在長輩是理所當然 長輩一定要到各個村"},{"start":14035.461,"end":14037.182,"text":"你這種思想裡面裝了什麼價值你應該講國家要進來幫忙政府要端出照顧公共化的政策你怎麼說長輩退位了 變少了不是這樣說的嘛"},{"start":14052.677,"end":14076.223,"text":"你作為一個所謂的進步人士你應該端出的是照顧公共化更多的你知道我們衛福部你有部位整合嗎你知道衛福部我們剛立了一個兒托法嗎我們這個裡面要加強各地方政府要有定點臨托還有活動臨托你知道這什麼意思嗎你不知道夜間臨時需求你剛才不是說要開放外樓"},{"start":14082.952,"end":14099.677,"text":"我們的定點零拖就是現在局府中心或地方政府可以設置更多的定點甚至連在車站都會設置定點零拖你有事 要怕孩子來政府辦的政府委託夾這麼多的 你上來我告訴你三點鐘四點鐘 你可以臨時拖的"},{"start":14105.51,"end":14113.157,"text":"這就是公共政策啊這就是我們額頭髮現在正在審查的啊這就是現在地方政府也有人在做的定點零拖一天這麼多你知不知道兩百塊如果不是三百塊有收沒 有啊"},{"start":14125.379,"end":14135.282,"text":"所以你要端出這種政策在衛福部的業務啊你勞動部去搶了衛福部你講的那些理由都好像是衛福部部長所以我不知道你你這樣子做你端出了這個東西你怎麼還有辦法在這裡講的義正言辭呢義正辭言呢不中"},{"start":14155.595,"end":14183.549,"text":"然後你說開放外籍幫庸的事業衝擊評估性別影響評估兒童最佳利益評估你們在做了你什麼時候可以做好什麼時候可以寫完你評估都還沒出來你就開放了4月13就要上路了評估都沒做好沒寫完你就出來了當然外面也有人講了啦你找台大某某人寫啦權威啦專家啦大家都很想看他評估出什麼樣子啦"},{"start":14185.68,"end":14188.682,"text":"他會照實評估嗎 大家也都拭目以待啦對不對你大概是什麼時候要公布 你們會做完相關的報告我們會在下一次的性評會的時候提出報告性評會 那失業衝擊評估呢"},{"start":14205.12,"end":14220.009,"text":"包括就業的影響 包括這個性別的部分都會在下一次性評會的時候提出那要從最佳利益評估呢下一次性評會議是什麼時候 行政院的這關行政院安排啊大概什麼時候所以你不知道啊 沒白就沒辦法這個是定期的會議啊"},{"start":14228.939,"end":14256.281,"text":"你這個都沒有告訴我們你什麼時候要出來如果是定期你可以回答我什麼時候會出來啊但是確切的安排的時間是行政院那邊對啊你定期的下一次理論上應該是幾月包委員我們那個姓平會好像3月30號才剛剛開完嘛所以是4月30還是5月30我們那個會看那個院那邊看院那邊的安排他說定期會開啊定期是多久一次"},{"start":14257.017,"end":14277.887,"text":"姓平輝我記得差不多四個月四個月喔所以你如果三個月三十再來叫到你四個月喔 你這法案政策就做了又做到評估要做什麼都已經執行了 政策都執行了那我們要這個評估 不過評估出來說有衝擊 你都開放了怎麼辦委員我先問一下 我知道委員對這個保安非常關心我先問一下 委員"},{"start":14285.133,"end":14297.179,"text":"這整個真的是我們的策略社會投資嘛我們知道現在家庭現在是在變遷當中我要委員報告就是說我們不是說我們現在要做這一行兩行都不做 我要委員報告我沒有在問你啦 我現在在問外籍移工政策 外籍勞工政策啦你不可能退部長回答 你先下去啦"},{"start":14310.336,"end":14323.971,"text":"我們是要檢視開放外籍邦傭的政策對台灣的勞工和托育的負面衝擊是什麼那台灣我要講不是我自己說的啦台灣障礙者權益促進會他們有一個新聞稿他們就是這樣講"},{"start":14328.436,"end":14347.425,"text":"政府雖然以協助育兒釋放女性勞動力為名但是你缺乏完整的配套沒有完整的影響評估下恐怕會惡化性別和階級的不平等擴大資源分配的不均讓照顧責任進一步私有化淪為有錢人才能享有的特權"},{"start":14350.106,"end":14364.203,"text":"因為你所謂的前五分之一的家庭有能力負擔幫傭者這是典型的 這個政策是階級政策對障礙者家庭而言 他們很憂心他們憂心放寬幫傭資格 引發搶工效應"},{"start":14369.318,"end":14388.144,"text":"身心障礙者知道啊 搶工啊導致原本就吃緊的外籍看護人力被引流到工作條件較輕鬆的高所得家庭進一步稀釋掉弱勢障礙者的照顧資源照顧的困境會加劇我現在講 有錢人 請幫忙我請台灣人可能五萬我請這個外籍移工三萬我還可以中金四萬"},{"start":14395.566,"end":14399.629,"text":"有一個普通人 他們到外籍看護就好了可以給到四萬五萬的啊不可能嘛所以會不會搶工 當然會除非源源不絕 外籍移工的勞動力市場是供給大於需求才不會發生問題啦"},{"start":14422.434,"end":14429.377,"text":"現在外籍勞動力市場是進入賣方市場供給遠遠小於需求是我現在外籍移工要選雇主 不是雇主選移工遠遠小於需求 價格上升現在是移工選雇主所以會不會產生問題 當然會產生問題現在我請教你說"},{"start":14449.048,"end":14465.934,"text":"這個政策到底是不是階級政策部長你說說看這政策是不是階級政策跟委員說沒有第一個其實對於整體的相關育兒支持相關的政策這其實是一個整體的政策組合不要講育兒啦連家庭幫傭都一樣他搶走台灣人幫傭的工作嘛"},{"start":14470.359,"end":14496.073,"text":"所以我們針對不同的需求我們會規劃不同的政策我現在問你這是不是階級政策只服務所得前五分之一的是不是我們針對不同的需求會設計不同的政策那其他所得五分之四的人育兒的家庭難道他們就沒有需求了嗎也會設計其他的政策去協助他們那請問你他要夜間臨時這個需求他回家很累家務不想做了那你要怎麼幫他"},{"start":14498.499,"end":14514.971,"text":"你幫他什麼其他五分之四的喔他回去也很累了他回去也不想工作了他也不想做家事了那請問你端出什麼政策幫他我們當然要用其他的政策沒有啦你沒有辦法幫他嘛不是嗎你應該這樣我現在跟你講說你沒有辦法幫他"},{"start":14525.066,"end":14529.27,"text":"外傭可以幫你接小孩 但他不能讓你準時下班外傭可以幫你煮飯 但他不能幫你加薪外傭可以幫你陪孩子 但他不可能替代父母在教育上的角色更現實一點 連外傭本身也需要被管理 被安排 被負責你會發現最後可能是女人"},{"start":14548.61,"end":14556.378,"text":"女人不只是說多一個幫手而還多了一份工作還要一份人力資源調配部門的兼職事實上"},{"start":14559.413,"end":14583.453,"text":"這個政策是假設家庭可以無痛升級成小型雇主單位政府將照顧的責任和問題丟給家庭然後家庭再把壓力轉嫁給外勞再將照護工作的性別責任轉嫁給更弱勢的勞工把照護責任從本國女性轉嫁到外籍廉價的女性勞動力"},{"start":14584.854,"end":14610.91,"text":"這個是一個很典型的責任向下流動的鏈條所以中產家庭勉強強稱低薪家庭用不起高收入的家庭本來就不缺他只是花的錢成本高或低看起來好像是大家都受益事實上是擴大階級這個差距啦為什麼要講這個呢我現在在跟你討論喔你知道"},{"start":14614.844,"end":14624.432,"text":"在很多人其實都走過這一段路 以新加坡為例新加坡來我找一個新加坡的這個數據以新加坡為例 其實他們開放嘛 而且他們沒有最低工資嘛 對嘛"},{"start":14634.915,"end":14656.48,"text":"新加坡在2010年有一個Teresa還有一個Leon我不曉得這個那個啦他發表了一篇Made for work-life balancethink again中文譯文叫做用女傭換取工作與生活平衡嗎可以嗎請三思他點出了新加坡社會對外籍家庭幫傭的依賴但是"},{"start":14659.16,"end":14677.348,"text":"為社會帶來沉重的代價不但強化了鞏固了照顧應該有女性而不是男性負責還導致企業僱主忽略職場育兒友善的必要性然後可以不在乎員工工作生活平衡的需求"},{"start":14678.428,"end":14702.727,"text":"所以在這種狀況裡面他們就發現其實並不是並不是只有利沒有弊然後員工想要請假你家裡不是有幫傭了嗎你怎麼還請假我想要回去顧小孩不行啊你家裡有幫傭啦所以這個政策並不是說有錢人都只有得到好處而已他可能讓他的雇主更有理由和更有藉口那我現在在講說"},{"start":14708.103,"end":14724.275,"text":"不是一般人請得起的 現在連有三間房的住宅都很少事實上也買不起 你知道在台北市每月生活所必須 撫養一個人是48910元"},{"start":14729.812,"end":14756.657,"text":"是 撫養一個人是每月要48,910元事實上再不要講房貸 車貸還有這個其他的費用啦事實上的確就是錢所得全台灣人的所得 錢等據五個等據裡面的第一等據的人有辦法負擔得起其他都沒有辦法連空間 生活空間都沒有辦法負擔得起歐洲人口學刊喔 這個"},{"start":14758.186,"end":14772.485,"text":"European Journal of Population早在2013年就有一篇由人口學家叫Angela還有經濟學家Oliver他撰寫的論文他明白指出長工時會減少生育率"},{"start":14773.266,"end":14791.779,"text":"而且由於女性就業以後蠟燭兩頭燒的壓力遠遠高於男性所以長工時對女性的生育率殺傷力尤其大他們計算出的結果是一個國家的女性平均年總工時增加100個小時生育率將會減少0.08%"},{"start":14796.048,"end":14824.346,"text":"人口經濟學的雜誌2023年也提到雇用外籍幫傭有望減輕家長養育子女的負擔但有些學者也表示在考慮家務外包對生育決策的影響時後面還有很多重的機制在運作文章提到聘僱家庭幫傭家長實際上可以擁有更多時間可能會育兒"},{"start":14825.447,"end":14843.92,"text":"也有可能真的會提高他們的意願但是第一種第一種原本就全職沒有上班全職從事家務的女性有了家庭幫傭以後會待在家的成本會變高因為開支變多了他們就會選擇進入勞動市場"},{"start":14847.432,"end":14869.451,"text":"但廣義而言女性可能會選擇就業增加勞動時間然後這樣子你以為是好了增加勞動力不因為這樣子他們對生育的意願就受到負面的影響這是第一種你以為有人來幫我了我要去工作了但是工作長工時就不想生了第二種"},{"start":14873.24,"end":14890.078,"text":"聘僱家庭的帮佣对本来就有工作刚才是本来没有工作的现在是本来就在工作就业中的女性而言也会产生负面影响例如为了获得晋升或追求更高职位而延长工作时间"},{"start":14891.699,"end":14918.246,"text":"或者是老闆知道你有家庭幫庸事情都找你做你也回不了家所以這個是人口經濟學雜誌在2023年提到你以為家庭幫庸制度完美無缺提升女性勞動力提升生育率事實上不是那台灣呢台灣的總工時名列前茅啊112年南韓的總工時一年多少"},{"start":14921.929,"end":14930.415,"text":"1874日本的總工時是多少 1637北歐的瑞典1416 西歐的荷蘭1351 112年的台灣總工時2019韓國1874 日本1637"},{"start":14943.058,"end":14971.763,"text":"所以如果人口學家那個Angela跟那個經濟學家Oliver的量化研究論文這個推論台灣總生育率極低完全就是預料之中因為工時太工時太長對生育率生育的意願太低那外籍邦庸最泛濫的國家是哪一個國家新加坡啊新加坡啊"},{"start":14973.272,"end":14982.615,"text":"剛剛不是講了嗎 新加坡的外籍邦庸政策全開放他新加坡一年總工時多少 112年總工時多少2267亞洲第一高不是嗎"},{"start":14993.999,"end":15021.073,"text":"所以呢就算在職的女性需要聘請幫手來協助家務她的月薪要多少肯定一定要比一定要比這個聘僱外傭的薪水更高那如果還沒工作的女性未來她從事的工作薪資要多少錢才能夠負擔起去引進這個外傭呢這個薪資年薪沒有數百萬真的是沒那麼容易啦"},{"start":15022.728,"end":15035.053,"text":"女性為什麼要主動放棄就業選擇在家育兒部長為什麼為什麼女性要準備生小孩在家育兒的時候勞動力就下滑為什麼為什麼是女性保定為什麼你也是要回答因為女性可能她薪資是比較低的對啊薪資比較低啊那你做了什麼你勞動部做了什麼要提高女性的勞參率"},{"start":15053.291,"end":15072.524,"text":"那你做了什麼 你端出了什麼讓女性繼續留在職場 不要 不要而不是說為了顧小孩 然後就不上班因為顧小孩的成本很高我上班的薪水這麼一點點那不如我自己顧 不是嗎"},{"start":15074.932,"end":15099.383,"text":"所以你要解決這個勞參率你應該端出你的政策而不是只有外籍幫傭而且為什麼會這樣放棄就業都不是所得前五分之一那一種女性啦那一種家庭啦都是你沒看到的所得全台灣所得五分之一以外的五分之四的家庭的女性"},{"start":15100.902,"end":15112.206,"text":"而勞動力最多這一群也是最重要的你服務那五分之一的所得前五分之一的那所得後面五分之四的人怎麼辦呢怎麼辦呢你這個東西就是看得出來女性仍然是家務跟育兒實質的承擔者號稱要留住女性 女性勞工你都沒有解決這個問題"},{"start":15130.742,"end":15150.438,"text":"薪資低於聘僱外籍幫傭的成本或外籍或者是保姆的成本所以即便有意願也沒有辦法他要請外傭也沒辦法就算有能力好他有能力的女性好了他請一個外籍幫傭可能你變相的要投入工作的時間要更長這也是另一種剝削啊對不對所以這個政策"},{"start":15161.479,"end":15186.154,"text":"我再說一遍 外籍包容這個政策真的會造成台灣人失業外籍勞工短缺然後大家搶移工 只有錢留得住移工那沒有錢的 中風的 失能的 癱瘓的這一些真正需要 最需要長照的照顧的體系的這一些家庭怎麼辦"},{"start":15187.455,"end":15202.538,"text":"而顧小孩的家庭幫傭的那些有錢人他本來就買得起結果你讓他有便宜的外勞他解雇他自己家庭裡面的本勞這樣這樣子好嗎部長請和一看"},{"start":15212.316,"end":15222.663,"text":"跟委員說其實這段時間的確其實有很多其實是中產的雙性家庭來表達他們的確很有需要這個政策"},{"start":15223.735,"end":15251.602,"text":"你現在講的中產的雙薪的家庭的確很需要這個政策他們的實質薪水是多少他們的代表性是什麼因為每次勞動部推了一個什麼政策都會說我們去做了有意願你們沒有做好失業衝擊評估你們先做好需求評估這就是還沒設建未設建先畫把都已經畫好了啊早就知道啦"},{"start":15254.229,"end":15281.522,"text":"你講這些話敢對你過去的自己會高大的你說中產的中產的也有能力你不是講有錢人你意思是說有錢人請得起中產的家庭也請得起一個外傭委員的確是有中產的中心家庭的確有啊當然也有啊那我問你你定義的中產家庭是什麼啦你所定義的中產薪水的家庭是多少叫中產你可以告訴我嗎"},{"start":15283.421,"end":15286.784,"text":"他跟我表達他們可能雙親是個人還是多數那你所謂的中產階級雙親是多少錢可能爸爸媽媽加起來可能有十多萬出頭的薪資他們就希望能夠請"},{"start":15301.387,"end":15315.633,"text":"10多萬的薪水他本來是不是就有需求他本來那他本來他有沒有請人在顧他如果要他的確反應因為夜間所以你這個政策是顧孩子為主家庭幫傭為輔不是"},{"start":15321.395,"end":15338.323,"text":"夠嬰兒為主 家庭幫傭為輔啦那我現在告訴你新加坡那個例子新加坡人家走過了那一段路新加坡的例子你又是怎麼講你現在都可以繼續講 繼續拗啊但是新加坡就告訴你了 活先生的例子就在那裡了"},{"start":15342.071,"end":15356.03,"text":"讓婦女出去外面工時越來越長然後家庭工作沒有得到平衡然後呢 我剛剛已經 我也是跟你講了很多遍啊外傭可以幫你接小孩 但他不能讓你準時下班"},{"start":15357.131,"end":15376.432,"text":"可以兼你的小孩但你不能準時下班外傭可以幫你煮飯但他不會幫你加薪外傭可以幫你陪孩子但他沒有辦法成為他的父母你孩子的父母在教育上該扮演的角色父母該有的陪伴的角色"},{"start":15381.058,"end":15403.338,"text":"我的意思是說 五分之四的人家庭需求 你怎麼辦 你怎麼沒有端出來你只服 這是不是一個階級政策你說不是啊 因為中產人員 有人跟你反應啊 有人跟你反應就可以了那我在這裡也跟你大聲疾呼陳情 為那些癱瘓的 失能的 中風的家庭在這裡跟你請命"},{"start":15404.392,"end":15432.565,"text":"你讓他們的外勞不要跟他吵架說要轉換雇主要去雇有錢人的小孩我也在這裡幫中風的、癱瘓的、失能的家庭跟你請命請你不要說不加薪的話他就要跑了我會替他們跟你請命不要為了要照顧每天蓋腰巴擦我也替他們請命可以不要讓他們的家屬心驚膽戰說我中風的父母不知道什麼人要照顧"},{"start":15435.195,"end":15452.791,"text":"那你怎麼辦 你端出一個什麼政策給我們有人跟你請命說 我很辛苦 我需要有人幫我照顧孩子 照顧家務那這一群 這一群失能的 癱瘓的 家庭的辛苦 什麼人要幫他解決我也在這裡請命啊"},{"start":15458.564,"end":15468.826,"text":"真的 真的 不然你去想辦法讓外籍移工的供給源源不絕 供不應求供大於求現在是供不應求 你讓他供大於求啊現在不是台灣人在唱歌日本 韓國 世界都在唱外籍勞工"},{"start":15485.848,"end":15495.056,"text":"大家全世界都在搶工欸不要以為外籍移工開放這麼簡單就不是啦謝謝林淑芬委員的質詢現在請陳委員質詢"},{"start":15521.121,"end":15547.327,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩請一下洪部長請洪部長請問好部長好 首先想要先跟您請教一下答案都跟你說了 跟你看了但是我想問的是原住民的職在千人綠"},{"start":15549.619,"end":15568.364,"text":"你給他看沒關係啊 那也不是今年的吧我要問你今年的114年原住民的職災牽人率是多少跟委員報告我們現在正在統計中那初步的資料是職災牽人率是3.267那全產業的職災牽人率又是多少"},{"start":15581.107,"end":15609.422,"text":"我們可能要再查一下數據我幫你查好這2點你們也還沒公佈我就不要聽你們公佈了對因為113年我這邊簡報上面是前年的那去年的我們目前還沒有看到那這目前你們還沒公佈那這個兩者的相差他有一些差距那部長你怎麼看待這個差距有什麼特別的意義嗎"},{"start":15611.56,"end":15630.648,"text":"對的確原住民族他在很多他的就業跟職業上面可能是比較會是高風險的職場的確我沒看到這個狀況第一個來不然我跟你說一下我換算給你看哦那每年大約有上萬件的這個職災發生然後以114年來看總共有25371件意思是說呢在這個兩萬到大"},{"start":15639.611,"end":15660.454,"text":"大概25000件的植栽里面呢比例换算一下从这个刚刚植栽千人率这样换算起来我们大概原住民的部分有占了15000人那其他族群的部分加起来大约有一万人左右这个比例是这样看起来是很可怕的那"},{"start":15662.016,"end":15689.153,"text":"原住民的這個職災宣導跟這個統計我們在過去在這個研究所就是我們前所長何俊傑的帶領之下他有特別建置了這個專屬的網站可以利用那這個網站在過去定期會分析原住民的這個職災的特性那這也顯示勞動部對於原住民高發生率的職災是有所重視的"},{"start":15690.034,"end":15712.681,"text":"那只是說在他離開之後那我們最近想要再查詢這個網站那我特別上網去看你們在這個網頁3月30號的時候有更新這個要給你們拍拍手但是我很認真的再去看一下裡面的內容卻停留在"},{"start":15713.761,"end":15732.836,"text":"去年也就是去年114年2月17日裡面的內容是完全沒有更新了所以本席會合理的懷疑所以我們是不是因為今天有這個專報然後你們要來備詢所以我趕快做個假動作那個網頁給他更新一下而且只有一人瀏覽那一人就是我們啊"},{"start":15734.034,"end":15751.635,"text":"不是 他主要是他的資料的時間出來因為他可能涉及到勞保的資料然後我們還要跟內政部所以我們今年其實應該是在三月中的時候重點是因為網頁今天三月三十要有更新而且這已經就是有過了一年多啦這有一年多的差距"},{"start":15752.936,"end":15770.824,"text":"比較重要的是說我們看一下113年是比112年植栽增加了64例那我不知道說114年它會繼續上升還是下降那因為我要講的是整體來說114年應該是下降的"},{"start":15774.125,"end":15795.543,"text":"那我們下降聽起來很好 好消息 但我們來細看一下114年度職災死亡的人數是251人比這個前年度要減少了36人看起來如部長所說的 我們這個降災的成效看起來是不錯的"},{"start":15797.264,"end":15824.661,"text":"我覺得還有精進的空間好沒關係但是至少看起來人數下降嘛那這個要給你拍拍手但是呢我們在西部看一下實際上是因為今年我們的這個近年我們住宅的開工數也下降了下降了兩趴那也就是等於少了將近三千戶左右那這個也是一個很重要的數據那我們這樣換算起來"},{"start":15826.182,"end":15843.892,"text":"可能就不一定是這個降災成效良好了因為更何況在你們的這個製造業就是說這個製造業的死亡人數它是比去年增加了7人那total是你看在全產業"},{"start":15845.473,"end":15862.103,"text":"這個7個不要小看這7個人這就已經佔了這個增加這7個等於佔了全產業的25%的死亡人數了這個是很高的那我們再看一下就是在"},{"start":15866.226,"end":15879.075,"text":"教育跟宣導是當然是這個職在預防非常重要的措施那感覺過去你們看起來是比較重視那畢竟就是說原住民利用這個我們遂時祭儀還有"},{"start":15881.897,"end":15905.712,"text":"各類的活動像射箭、壘球比賽等等你們在這些活動上藉這樣子人數聚集的時候我們大力的宣導當然這是過去研究所所主導而且有看到一些好成績但是同時我在這邊也要提醒勞動部就是我們要注意數據的正確性"},{"start":15907.913,"end":15923.265,"text":"那也不要像職安署就是說曾經他發布了然後又增加重大職災人數因為必要的時候部長你也可以請這個跟這個勞保局可以再確認一下部長是不是可以同意這樣的建議"},{"start":15924.645,"end":15951.572,"text":"我們當然會請治安署跟勞保局都保持資料上面的對接那今年初其實的確有一度我們有增加幾個人重大自災人數但比較大的原因是因為當時其實有一些自災認定案件還在司法單位裡面其實檢察官還在認定那後來檢方把那個他的資料給確認出來以後他是自災所以我們也很直接的就把這些相關的數字加上去那我們都不會隱匿不會隱匿絕對不會隱匿"},{"start":15954.943,"end":15981.28,"text":"因为大家都会去看当年的这个换算的人数嘛那至于你说每年都要去解释为什么增加为什么我们现在会是每季好那我想这个部分就提醒你们好吧我每三个月就公布一次那这个另外要也是要再提醒劳动部就是说我们"},{"start":15982.521,"end":16004.793,"text":"就是說在這個你們那個下降就是說數據一下下降太顯著太漂亮然後又沒有分析原因的時候然後發布的時間又比往年要再晚我說這樣的種種的這個跡象會讓我們難免去質疑這個數據的真實性所以跟文說明我們接下來會是每三個月每一季就會發布一次"},{"start":16005.523,"end":16030.985,"text":"好 那我們就拭目以待 希望有所精進那另外也就是說 勞研所的這個績效跟部長是不是重視會不會 有沒有在重視是有很大的關係因為這個機構呢 它當然配合這103年2月勞委會升格為勞動部之後呢所有的預算跟人員呢 都沒有變動"},{"start":16031.886,"end":16051.195,"text":"那全部都是職業安全衛生的背景的研究人員那但是呢我們檢視一下這個正副的所長還有新來的主命呢都不是這個職業安全衛生的這個職安委的這個專業的人去領導"},{"start":16052.395,"end":16079.989,"text":"那本席只是想要請教說部長這樣子的安排在領導統一上會不會容易出問題那專業上有沒有說服力會不會容易做出錯誤的決策跟判斷而不自知然後造成而且底下的這些專業的部署可能也不敢多說什麼那這些呢可能都會影響到部長做出一些"},{"start":16081.59,"end":16093.403,"text":"在做判斷的時候做決策的時候可能會有一些落差那我想我不知道部長有沒有掌握這樣的問題或者認為這樣根本也不是問題"},{"start":16094.807,"end":16112.989,"text":"跟文說明第一個因為確實我們研究所這邊過去比較多會是專為的人員但其實近年外界越來越重視很多關於勞動市場相關的研究所以我們這幾年尤其是跟勞動力有關的包括跟就有關的這其實是在我們整個研究的範圍裡面"},{"start":16114.13,"end":16141.526,"text":"所以我们整个接下来当然我们还是会保持因为我们的在这个研究所的一个优势就是针对职安位的研究的部分可是接下来我们也会要来强化在劳动市场上面的研究因为这也是现在包括大家缺工的问题包括各种劳动形态的研究的问题这可能过去不是传统职安位范围的但是我讲的是我刚刚谈的问题主要是集中在我们的第一层一层的这个专业人士的部分"},{"start":16142.146,"end":16164.055,"text":"他們的專業因為畢竟這個領導你也可以平衡一下我的問題在這裡其實因為現在那個王所長他之前在勞動部的重規師其實重規師就是掌握跟了解整個勞動部相關的政策其實都了解到都有一定程度的了解"},{"start":16164.955,"end":16185.623,"text":"所以當然這個如果委員有什麼建議我們可以也再來跟委員聽取委員的建議那或者是有什麼提醒也可以大概提醒我們我想我點出這個問題啦那那個部長重不重視認為是不是有問題就是我也沒有辦法勉強但我想"},{"start":16187.364,"end":16206.483,"text":"在針對因為我們是監督單位那我就提出這樣子的提醒那另外就是說今天另外的議題是霸凌那目前就是說有關於這個職場霸凌的諮詢專線我們查了一下除了1955之外還有這個職安署跟這個勞工健康服務的心理諮商專線並沒有專責的這個服務單位你們未來會設置嗎"},{"start":16214.264,"end":16231.177,"text":"會想要設置在哪裡嗎我想接下來在預防重圓中心我們會來規劃相關的機制好這樣很好謝謝那職安署的這個職場霸凌申訴管道申訴專線跟傳真請問從這個職安法的霸凌專章通過之後接到申訴服務的次數次量有沒有統計有沒有"},{"start":16234.019,"end":16246.426,"text":"對 你們有統計嗎跟委員報告 因為現行是條文還沒施行不過過去以來的不罰侵害的這個案件都有持續在接受跟統計所以目前是沒有啦因為還沒上路"},{"start":16249.187,"end":16276.004,"text":"因為只要是涉及到人的管理就有可能有這個霸凌的發生那這個涉及到客觀的事實跟主觀的感受那勞動部呢剛好就自己你們都遇到了那第一案呢謝一榮的案子勞動部從一開始調查是不成立的後來因為龐大的這個輿論壓力那我們又重啟調查然後又成立了這個就是他重新調查之後又成立了"},{"start":16277.144,"end":16296.752,"text":"結果法院認定霸凌案又不成立另外一件是裁判法人職在中心主管的霸凌案法院內部調查經過三次會議決議才認定霸凌案成立過程看起來是非常嚴謹"},{"start":16298.554,"end":16312.249,"text":"但是呢這位被認定霸凌案的副處長卻還不斷的去提告申訴人證人還有調查委員結果呢反而被法院的這個判決書"},{"start":16313.951,"end":16337.566,"text":"把这个调查的这个过程结果认定霸凌案的理由公开那结果呢就变成了这个是霸凌专章通过之后我国第一件我们第一件由法院引用职安法认证通过的霸凌案成立那我想要请部长去看一下那份判决书就是"},{"start":16339.207,"end":16352.591,"text":"臺灣臺北地方法院114年度勞檢制第183號民事判決原告葉秀珊告證人原告之訴駁回我想我把這一份就先送給部長"},{"start":16372.927,"end":16400.22,"text":"好 這個看起來職安署負責的調查程序跟結果遠遠不如你們當時的這個職災中心能夠在司法認證上站得住腳那部長你知道嗎在有聽說這位副處長在調查階段有私下事先跟調查委員接觸我想請教部長調查委員的名單是不是不公開"},{"start":16402.114,"end":16430.826,"text":"應該是不公開吧他不能事先公開吧根文說明第一個在重建中心當時有幾件的霸凌案我們都依照相關的程序來辦理所以確實因為這當然涉及到一些個資那幾件案子那確實有霸凌成立的情況他不是到法院才認定霸凌成立是在我們在這個重建中心在法人的調查裡面就認定"},{"start":16432.126,"end":16457.251,"text":"成立的對而且認定完以後也做了相關的處置好在法人那個時候就認定成立是好那你可能要關注一下後續的發展對所以後來我現在後來又有他們提告到法院部長我現在問的你要回答我我現在問的是調查委員的名單是可以事先公開的嗎因為"},{"start":16460.475,"end":16489.332,"text":"因為你們的這位副處長他事先去跟著這個調查委員接觸了啊你不知道這件事嗎你知道嗎調查委員的名單我們其實並沒有公開好那我想請問葉秀珊副處長他是如何得知調查委員是誰那他怎麼可以事先去找調查委員部長你要不要回去調查一下為什麼"},{"start":16491.613,"end":16499.358,"text":"我不確定他怎麼知道但我要可以說的事情是說這個案子基本上這個內部的調查霸凌就是成立的"},{"start":16500.717,"end":16528.006,"text":"我要在這裡我們要所以這位被指控的我現在不是部長你稍等一下部長你弄清楚我的問題我今天我不是在跟你討論霸凌案我不是在跟你計較霸凌案在你們內部就已經成立還是到法院才成立我今天我在乎的是為什麼這個副處長他可以事先知道這個調查委員的名單如果你們在這件事情上不能好好把關的話那未來會變成什麼樣子"},{"start":16531.061,"end":16542.267,"text":"所以我今天在這裡要求我很清楚有掌握這個訊息葉副處長他有跟調查委員他有去找他有接觸那"},{"start":16545.751,"end":16565.222,"text":"你要很正式我提出來今天這個問題因為他可能就是成為未來你們在處理所有的大零二的一個很重要的一個破口所以如果你有相關的資訊的話其實你可以提供給我們但是問題是這個葉副處長到處告人搞不好我今天質詢完他也告我呀"},{"start":16567.069,"end":16580.987,"text":"雖然不會成立但是他可能也會到處告啦那我要提一下啦就如果你有明確的事實的話你也可以提供給我們部長你暫時不要再跟我反駁任何事情因為我告訴你有這件事情那我們要提出來是因為"},{"start":16583.129,"end":16611.167,"text":"我希望你做調查你去調查為什麼會發生然後你把這個調查結果跟本席報告跟我們所有委員衛環委員會的委員來報告我為什麼要你做這個動作因為未來如果有內部的人因此受影響而有特定的立場造成有一方被冤枉了那80專章未來還可以保護勞工嗎還是說變成有利人士的這些可以興風作浪的源頭"},{"start":16612.449,"end":16636.347,"text":"好我今天特別指出這個問題我是要你杜絕未來有可能發生同樣的問題所以你一定要回去調查所以委員當時在這個法人裡面的確有幾件霸凌案的調查霸凌案成立以後我們在人事上面都做了處理的就是希望杜絕也希望能夠讓法人有一個新的在人事上面一個新的開始"},{"start":16637.315,"end":16656.089,"text":"所以我們也不希望說未來負責調查的或者去做證人的都被變成被告或者是甚至被開除或者甚至被反告變成是霸凌的對象這些都是不對啦"},{"start":16657.608,"end":16672.763,"text":"所以一般的法律都可以透過執法或者這個行政命令來確保這個法律的效果可以被發揮那你們現在既然訂了這個霸凌專章但是你們卻沒有這個實質程序禁止行為等等的宣示都沒有所以"},{"start":16673.704,"end":16701.881,"text":"而且也沒有這個諮詢服務的專責單位所以我希望老總部你們可以再繼續加油要有所作為讓自己通過的法案能夠真正發揮到保護被霸凌的勞工委員還是做說明說現在附屬法規正在修訂中所以剛才委員剛才講到的幾個點包括禁止的部分在新的附屬法規裡面我們都有放進去對這是在去年底的修法之後然後再新訂的附屬法規那我們希望能夠在7月1號可以上路"},{"start":16702.81,"end":16719.668,"text":"好那這個部分我剛剛講的那個事先那個名單洩漏然後被我是說那個葉副處長去找的這件事情你們一定要好好調查清楚有什麼相關資訊也可以再提供給我們我們來確認對謝謝謝謝陳映緯的質詢現在休息20分鐘"},{"start":17936.34,"end":17936.981,"text":"現在繼續開會 我們現在請王振旭委員質詢"},{"start":17957.046,"end":17971.282,"text":"好 謝謝主席謝謝主席今天排了這麼豐富這麼多元的主題謝謝大家可以來針對必要的主題做更多的質詢那小武部長已經不在現場我們就麻煩次長好 我請次長是"},{"start":17976.893,"end":17999.452,"text":"請委員保重是 謝謝市長的問候還有關心我想針對今天開放外籍邦傭就是外籍家事移工的部分很多委員也都有很多相關的意見基本上其實都是針對我國應該要改善育兒環境的期待希望能夠讓他做得更好也讓我們這些年輕的勞工朋友們"},{"start":18000.032,"end":18010.848,"text":"在他照顧育兒的同時呢都能夠有更好的資源來協助他們來把事情做好所以今天還是想要針對整體育兒政策的強化來跟市長這邊做個討論"},{"start":18013.539,"end":18039.95,"text":"第一個部分呢就是有關於這個育兒彈性配套擴大領到6歲這一部分首先要先肯定勞動部在推動育嬰留庭彈性化這邊的努力這個努力呢經過今年2月開始推動這個新制以來根據貴部的統計不管是在申請的數量或者是在這個促進育兒性平的部分"},{"start":18040.51,"end":18059.534,"text":"看起來都進步非常的多大家也都感同身受知道這樣的政策是對我們這些民眾有非常大的幫忙也是因為這樣成效非常不錯所以大家也會期待現在0到3歲的這個育兒友善措施能不能夠擴大從變成0到6歲"},{"start":18063.115,"end":18083.924,"text":"那其實不管是今天早上很多委員或者是甚至在總諮詢的時候劉建國委員也有跟我們院長還有跟部長共同來質詢過類似的問題那個時候洪部長也有在說他會研議看來有沒有機會在下半年能夠提出這個修法的版本就是針對0到6歲的這個延長的部分"},{"start":18087.005,"end":18110.443,"text":"那除了委員很關心以外其實我們很多的民團也都曾經表達類似的訴求就是希望這些育兒友善的措施能夠再開放他這個年齡這個大家共同期待主要原因是因為三歲以上到六歲甚至小學的低年級其實這個需求都還是明顯的存在"},{"start":18111.204,"end":18139.069,"text":"如果我們要落實這個雙就業還有雙照顧的這樣的政策那就是要讓雙薪家庭的父母都能夠兼顧到工作與育兒照顧所以三歲以上的托育服務機構依照現況常常尤其是在不同的季節會因為腸病毒或流感等等的情況而有需要停班停課的情形之下這些的家長需要用額外的時間來做接送這是普遍的存在"},{"start":18140.169,"end":18159.801,"text":"所以我相信民間團體這樣的訴求跟委員或者是大家社會的期待是相當一致的所以在這邊就有希望勞動部在演繹修法的時候能夠一併跟下列的三個部分來做演繹的對象第一個就是有關的"},{"start":18160.961,"end":18184.138,"text":"這個性別平等工作法第16條可以來申請這個育嬰留停的年齡從0到3歲變成0到6歲那第二部分就是就業保險法第11條跟第19條之二有關於這個育嬰留職停薪期間的這個津貼的額度算是還有這個裁員也一併來考量"},{"start":18185.399,"end":18200.417,"text":"第三個就是有關性別平等工作法第19條30天以上的失業單位工時來縮減或者是調整的制度那這三個法我們其實辦公室也都有提出了相關的法案的修正內容那如果說下半年能夠"},{"start":18201.578,"end":18223.734,"text":"讓這個修法有順利來推動的話那我們希望在未來三個月的時間裡面能不能夠針對這個擴大育兒友善措施的年齡延伸到六歲的演繹的結果能夠提供給委員會做一個參考那這邊不知道次長有沒有相關的一些想法是跟委員報告就是"},{"start":18225.712,"end":18254.604,"text":"國家在面對整體的人口結構的變化還有友善家庭甚至於職場的部分各部位都有完整的分工那在勞動部的部分主要是雙就業雙照顧這一塊那有一部分需要短期脫離職場在育嬰留庭的部分我們要讓他能夠回復到職場來也讓他的育嬰留庭可以比較容易去申請所以我們就會擴大到按日然後有一部分是屬於家庭照顧的部分我們擴大到按時"},{"start":18255.464,"end":18270.435,"text":"那有一些是屬於彈性工作時間的安排我們也在積極推出當中所以有關性別工作平等法在相應的部分委員所指教的包括育嬰留庭是不是可以從三歲放寬到六歲以上或者是說"},{"start":18271.315,"end":18299.355,"text":"就業保險法裡面這一邊原來我們透過公預算加給兩成的部分算是裁員各方面還有30人以上的調整工時縮減的這些相應的制度我們洪部長有特別在大院答詢的時候有說我們會在今年下半年並同的整體來做一個考量看可不可以在下半年有一個比較好的完整的想法所以委員所指教的這幾個部分我們都會審慎的來納入思考案的研議"},{"start":18299.994,"end":18328.437,"text":"好那就像這個原意的這個成果報告也可以先在三個月提供給我們做參考是是好謝謝那再過來就是有關於日本育兒友善措施的彈性化日本跟我們面臨的困境其實是非常類似就是他們的勞動力也不足那少子化也非常的嚴重我們可以看到日本的育兒介護修業法他們在2024年也做一個很完整的修法"},{"start":18328.917,"end":18356.4,"text":"那這些修法後來在2025年的4月1日還有2025年的10月1號開始分別這個實施上路那這個內容呢就會包括涉及適用年齡的擴大申請室友的放寬還有育兒方案的彈性選項等等這邊我們可以看到的就是有關於在4月1號開始實施的部分他們"},{"start":18357.601,"end":18378.957,"text":"修法的內容裡面在事業要商路的部分呢就是將這個室友擴大到傳染病導致的停班停課這就是我們目前也希望能夠針對這個部分呢也能把它納進來那他們還包括像入學或者是在畢業典禮上面也都讓這些家長們是當作一個試駕的一個室友"},{"start":18381.138,"end":18406.276,"text":"另外他們的這個申請範圍也從就學前擴大到小學三年級主要是因為他們是小學一二三年級還是上半天的課上家長有更方便那我們這次是期待先放到六歲未來是不是能夠適度的再放寬我們是可以再參考的那在10月1號開始實施的部分他們更特別的就是針對於"},{"start":18409.378,"end":18434.819,"text":"在要求僱主的部分是有更好的一個方做法他們的做法就是希望說能夠有設定一個五項的一個必要的措施讓這些需要來做相對來做處理的部分能夠有所選擇那我把他們的這個五項的措施提供給這個次長來做參考"},{"start":18437.401,"end":18455.814,"text":"他們就是針對於在子女三歲到小學之前雇主可以提供五項育兒的措施其中有兩項是可以提供給員工來做參考員工再從其中裡面折翼來利用這個五項這麼有彈性的內容"},{"start":18458.596,"end":18483.156,"text":"雇主的義務第一個就是變更這個實業的時間就是包括彈性工時跟實測的出勤第二個就是遠距辦公可以每個月有10天以上第三項就是設置或者是營運的托育設施第四項就是養育兩立資源的休假就是每年有10天以上做選擇第五項就是短時間的勤務制度"},{"start":18484.277,"end":18501.531,"text":"就是僱主必須要從這個法定的五項裡面呢他們選擇兩項以上來實施那從裡面再讓勞工可以選擇一項來利用那這個過程當然他們有義務需要跟這個勞工做一個互動"},{"start":18502.492,"end":18517.266,"text":"做一個關懷讓人在選擇的時候更知道為什麼他要做這樣的選擇那他們也非常鼓勵但不是強制說一定要遠距辦公這樣的需求那我相信這樣日本的修法當有他們當地的條件"},{"start":18519.688,"end":18532.803,"text":"可是也應該可以當為我們台灣在修法的時候一個重要的參考那不知道次長對這樣的日本的做法有沒有一些想法或者是想要做哪一部分的一些處理是"},{"start":18535.085,"end":18551.579,"text":"他三四十當然可以公錯不過兩國的法治環境沒有很完全一樣即使是這樣子我相信各國的做法都是相對類似的有關於譬如說有關於上下班時間的相對彈性化在我們性別工作平等法已經有一些範定"},{"start":18552.62,"end":18575.535,"text":"那或者是說遠距辦公其實勞動部也推出了相關的指引在鼓勵雇主和勞工可以來適用這個部分尤其在COVID之後確實也是一個趨勢那至於托兒或者是照相關的措施這邊在我們的法律上也是要求一定層級以上的雇主需要去"},{"start":18576.235,"end":18599.27,"text":"去提供相應的措施的所以有關於日本的相關的法制我們會參考委員的建議去實際的蒐集案了解那在我們整體的相應的評估的部分再來做一些考量看什麼樣子可以讓我們的工作的家庭裡面父母親在育兒方面可以得到更多的資產照顧"},{"start":18601.031,"end":18626.697,"text":"也請勞動部能夠研議這個日本知識修法相關的制度適合我國參考實施的部分能夠研議給我們一份報告也希望三個月能夠完成最後一個比較相關的性工法公布資料應該可以更明確的部分我們知道性別工作平等法在促進工作平等措施的立法結構上面有這三條"},{"start":18627.857,"end":18649.697,"text":"比較大家可以參考就是性供法第14條到第20條裡面就是針對生理假孕留庭假或者是家庭照顧假產假陪產假等等做一個相關的規定那第21條就是勞工在請求這前面7條雇主不得拒絕或不利益的對待那如果在"},{"start":18651.498,"end":18676.863,"text":"違反到21條的話那在新公法第38條就會有處罰2到30萬那同時要公布這些違法的僱主的資料這是我們可以看到的相關的這個立法架構跟結構那可是我們在勞動部目前的公布網站上面呢會根據不同的縣市他們所公布出來的資料其實是不是那麼樣的統一"},{"start":18678.323,"end":18694.576,"text":"原來有一些縣市就會根據前面第14條到24條他們違反了哪一些的內容那做了什麼樣的懲處公布相對仔細那有一些縣市呢他就是針對於說他違反了第21條所以用38條來處分"},{"start":18696.517,"end":18719.095,"text":"結果我們在做相關的這些處理的內容的時候事實上是會有造成的落差基本上我們要在統計或者是想要掌握狀況那對民眾來講這個資料的透明度也相對是不夠完整所以可不可以麻煩部理能夠針對如何去公告公布能夠跟地方主管機關"},{"start":18720.296,"end":18742.285,"text":"一起來討論把它一個比較明確的一個做法讓大家都可以有所了解有所掌握好謝謝委員的指教因為相關的法令對違反的情節要求行政部門要予以公佈上網公開其實落實法尊的一個重要的環節那我們勞動部跟地方政府"},{"start":18742.945,"end":18772.003,"text":"過去在這一邊包括其他相關的法令的規範我們都有持續在檢討也在其一相應的標準包括上網的時間然後應該上網的內容和方式那委員所提到的這部分我們一方面已經請我們的業管單位跟該管的地方政府在做協調另外一方面我們也會再重新整個去審視我們的上網公告的相應的部分有沒有可以再進一步檢討精進還有跟地方政府再把那個基準"},{"start":18772.463,"end":18777.034,"text":"化的更奇異的部分謝謝委員的指教好那就請市長繼續努力謝謝謝謝王振旭委員的發言"},{"start":18800.64,"end":18804.842,"text":"好 那下一位我們請趙偉盧趙偉發言謝謝主席 有請陳次長及園民會我們盧處長請陳次長還有盧委處長對 盧處長謝謝"},{"start":18828.62,"end":18846.795,"text":"我們原住民的工作類型真的是比較辛苦大家都是從事營造業一些非典型勞動的比例比較高所以都是暴露在高風險低保障的勞動環境當中所以我們本席在很多次的一個諮詢裡面都有提到這些我的請求謝謝我們"},{"start":18849.657,"end":18870.429,"text":"我們勞動部有提供一些資料我們先看一下就是我們的死亡死亡值債的部分在13年到14年10月有34件然後因為工地承攬停工的這個案件大概有62件那我想知道是說我們一直在要確保我們的權益然後希望能夠去督促那些比較"},{"start":18871.529,"end":18888.476,"text":"辛苦的這些非典型勞動加保的這些我們的基層勞工我想知道到目前為止我們的為了要催保跟查核我們到底推動哪些政策跟執行的措施現在執行的成效又是什麼"},{"start":18889.836,"end":18904.308,"text":"第一件事情跟委員報告就是說我們的原住民朋友主要他的勞參率其實比國人還高我要感謝原住民朋友的協助那他主要最大的兩個工作場域一個是製造業一個是服務業"},{"start":18905.029,"end":18925.924,"text":"製造業的部分因為製造業的工作屬性在過往的情況確實他的職災的發生率會偏高那這部分勞動部大概會採取幾個措施一個部分是我們對於職災發生的原因會去加強職安位的相關的的加強的相關的措施那第二個部分是有關於"},{"start":18927.345,"end":18942.35,"text":"營造業過往有一些多層承攬或者是分包的狀況我們在這一次承蒙大院的協助我們在職安法的修法也把這一塊做了一個起義的處理第三個部分是有關萬一不幸發生職業災害我們其實在勞工職業災害保險及保護法會有相應的保障那這邊我們一方面會透過"},{"start":18951.673,"end":18972.429,"text":"官的宣導去鼓勵大家去催促強制納保那另外萬一有一時半刻沒有辦法是長時間的僱用我們也有減便的加保措施那如果退一萬步言真的不幸發生了在植栽保法裡面也有即使沒有納保我們還是有一些基本的保障"},{"start":18973.109,"end":18994.02,"text":"對於原住民朋友們的保護的部分我們會來持續加強那如果有發生離災不幸離災的狀況也會透過地方的個案的造福的同仁來提供必要的支持不知道原民會有沒有特別去掌握就是說被典型勞動者的那些加保制度我們目前實際使用的人數有多少"},{"start":18995,"end":19009.13,"text":"跟委員報告一下那我們在107年開始就跟勞動部有合作有針對那些未勞保的部分來去做相關的處理從107年當時的無勞保人數大概是六萬三千多人113年已經減低到四萬兩千人"},{"start":19010.151,"end":19029.512,"text":"也是說我們的那個有勞保的人數從73.98到83.478左右那這個也是要謝謝我們勞動部就針對那些5人以上5勞保公司那部分有加強查核那有我們部分呢也配合也做針對4人以下無一定雇主的部分來去做一個宣導以上"},{"start":19033.155,"end":19041.28,"text":"那我想知道說有沒有裁法或者是說你覺得這個裁法的比例有沒有掌握裁法比例可能勞動部這邊"},{"start":19044.764,"end":19067.716,"text":"這邊當然如果只要有工作就應該要加保這是僱主應該承擔的責任那如果僱主沒有加保我們一方面會提供勞工的職災勞工保護法會提供勞工必要的給付同時也會裁罰僱主他應該支付的相應的費用除了罰完之外本來他應該透過保險來給付的這部分我們也會請僱主來負擔"},{"start":19069.517,"end":19086.934,"text":"相應的部分我們其實都有在一些處理我是不是請我們市長可以就數據的部分跟我們做一個說明跟委員報告就是我們從災保法是111年5月1號開始實施我們對沒有加保的失業單位我們會裁罰2萬到10萬那大概從那個時候到"},{"start":19091.533,"end":19107.119,"text":"到115年的1月為止一共有10,073件但是這個是全體不是原民原民的部分我是希望有一些數據給我們原民的部分再細分出來給我們知道"},{"start":19107.859,"end":19135.323,"text":"我再看看勞保局能不能把它分開我知道在加重裁法跟嚴格查核這個機制是對當然是全國通用不過我是覺得如果說像我們針對我們原住民的企業可能都是在起步的階段或者是說他確實沒有一些專業的人力來幫他做這些比如說他缺乏法務跟行政的一些量能他缺乏風險辨識的一些專業能力也就是說可能雇主也不知道哪裡危險也還有一些就是他"},{"start":19136.183,"end":19158.074,"text":"買不起房戶或者是外部的這些配備也就是說他缺乏財務的彈性跟資源所以雖然我們有加重財法跟嚴格查核可是就僱主的部分我覺得還是要輔導我們原住民的這些危險的企業者因為本來就做這些事情本來就已經很辛苦可是他們沒有這方面的專業可以加以輔導嗎"},{"start":19159.099,"end":19184.194,"text":"是這邊沒有問題謝謝委員分成兩個部分來看第一個部分是只要有工作就應該參加職災保險那這部分也有簡便的加保方式可以去做處理那第二個部分是有關於降災防災減災的部分這部分就是有關於在營造業的現場如何避免他職場安全的部分受到危害那主要以前大部分都會"},{"start":19184.694,"end":19198.592,"text":"碰到的是高空墜落諸如此類的相應的災害那這部分我們洪部長有請治安署針對營造業的防災減災的部分去推動相應的專案那也跟很多的"},{"start":19200.875,"end":19227.086,"text":"工協會在營造夥伴關係會去持續的去推廣那希望我再看職場減災這個部分我覺得原鄉也沒有被特別拉出來看所以他如果他在全國的一個平均數裡面就看不出他的嚴重性所以這個職場減災的部分我希望有個原住民的KPI就是說你原鄉跟原民的企業覆蓋率是多少你們宣導是怎麼做的我覺得應該是還是要具體一點讓我們知道"},{"start":19228.026,"end":19251.406,"text":"好謝謝這部分我們會分成兩個部分來做第一個部分就是說原民朋友如果在一般的企業裡面我們會透過整個職安位的角度透過全企業的方式來宣導那第二個如果是原鄉或者是原民事業單位比較特殊的情況我們也跟原民會來請教一起來對針對這部分來做出"},{"start":19252.086,"end":19278.851,"text":"對 因為現在的財法都很高比如300萬到450萬就是說隱匿這些其實就我們的這個我剛才說的微型創業這些他們根本就沒有能力去負擔這些所以我就說既然有這麼高的財法應該有相當程度的一個所謂的輔導跟我們剛才所說的所謂的KPI 減災KPI最後就是針對我們之前有講到促進人主民主就業獎勵計畫這個部分"},{"start":19280.871,"end":19306.347,"text":"那可能工作到一定的時間可能就獎勵原住民一些他的獎勵可是只有獎勵勞工可是沒有獎勵雇主所以我們之前在12年的6月像會議上面勞動部就代替原住民提案說原民會提案說要補助事業單位促進原住民主就業計畫希望能夠補助雇主的負擔勞保及救保的費用的50%我不知道現在這個執行的狀況如何"},{"start":19308.869,"end":19335.011,"text":"先跟委員報告那有關就針對原住民出行就業獎勵的計劃部分其實我們是跨部會合作那我們就針對原住民的個人的部分如果是你的薪資超過三而且穩定工作三個月大概就會有三千到一萬左右的不同等級的薪資去做獎勵但是雇主的部分有現有勞動部的計劃就已經有了所以我們這個部分是跨部會有在合作所以現有的就是50%嗎"},{"start":19337.714,"end":19356.173,"text":"但是補助的那一塊那個還在研議中所以已經從12年到現在已經三年了還在研議所以我們現在就是用促進就會獎勵計畫這個部分先做我們可以做的部分那我希望那勞動部主責嗎還是你們主責"},{"start":19357.473,"end":19377.383,"text":"我們研究個人的部分我們這邊會來處理但是我們也會用跨部而且我們每半夜也都跟勞動部做一次的一個研究業方面的一個平台的一個聯絡會議我是希望一個具體的一個財務評估適用條件跟上路的時程不然我們的雇主其實也是很辛苦可以嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":19379.785,"end":19404.785,"text":"最後一個問題是關於那個我們因為大家都講到那個時候我就講我們75歲那個免巴士量表的部分那還是勤務服部還有勞動部還有我們運營會因為我之前找過分別找過各單位來談結果大家都互相貼來貼去我很想知道說到底這個75歲原住民免巴士量表是哪一個單位要主責"},{"start":19407.393,"end":19420.351,"text":"跟委員報告大院在修正就業保險就業服務法的時候80歲以上是免巴士量所以我們當時跟衛務部在整個的相應的措施裡面"},{"start":19422.333,"end":19450.435,"text":"會去協調合作去讓他順利的實施也沒有排擠到重症家庭的需求至於委員所提到說原住民朋友的部分是不是75歲以上就可以免巴士量表我跟委員報告在目前的狀況底下原住民朋友在70歲75歲到80歲這部分其實他有相關如果萬一不幸有失能情況相關的照顧其實現在絕大部分都已經可以走到多元免評了"},{"start":19451.776,"end":19476.863,"text":"唯一如果說他沒有達到失能的狀況而要去放寬免巴士量表的話那這部分恐怕現階段還需要再做審慎的討論但是我要強調說原住民朋友在70歲以上如果他有失能的狀況需要協助照顧在現階段都已經多元免貧絕大部分在多元免貧就可以得到協助"},{"start":19477.443,"end":19504.016,"text":"那好那我知道這個就是說多元免貧可能協助大部分可是我是希望羅處長這邊園民會能不能掌握75歲的長者我們原住民的確實有這個需求的可不可以在近期之內調查出來或者是說你們覺得有沒有一個替代比如說今天做不到這些過度的配套是不是由衛生所或者巡迴醫療或者是長照評估就可以拿到這些他應該要有的這個量表而不是要又要派車去"},{"start":19505.537,"end":19525.346,"text":"帶長者去醫院然後再去做一個巴車因為現在他說還沒有一個可行方案嘛75歲以上免巴車量表他還是要巴車量表嘛萬一他需要這個的話能不能有地區的也就是衛生所跟我們在地的診所就可以不然那個舟車勞頓真的為了一張紙很辛苦"},{"start":19525.906,"end":19549.228,"text":"有那個衛福部有先公告的一個就是在針對那個多元的那個評估的方式這個已經有相關的有相關規定出來了那75歲以上的長者確實需要的我覺得也可以去掌握數據我們也試著幫您看看OK好謝謝好謝謝謝映映召委的發言也謝謝各位官員的答詢"},{"start":19578.999,"end":19599.049,"text":"現在請鄭天才委員質詢主席 各位有請勞動部還有言明會請陳次長 請羅副處長鄭委員好"},{"start":19607.968,"end":19619.793,"text":"這個根據113年度原住民族就業狀況調查這個原住民在營建工程業佔了18.24%營造業14.26%總共就是三十幾32.50%所以也就是說我們有三分之一的就業是在這個營建跟製造業"},{"start":19637.895,"end":19638.6,"text":"那根據剛剛已經講過了"},{"start":19641.496,"end":19651.183,"text":"好 我們看看我們這個衛福部的一個勞動部勞動部的一個這個2025年跟2024年重大職災死亡人數這一個統計雖然2025比2024少了但是少的還是很有限總共在2025年還是有251件的"},{"start":19670.907,"end":19692.086,"text":"這個重大之災的一個死亡人數當然這個受傷的還沒有在裡面所以要請這個那個勞動部針對這個2025年了2025年原住民到底多少我們先分兩個先分兩個部分中華民國的國民"},{"start":19697.657,"end":19712.552,"text":"多少然後外籍勞工多少分兩個部分然後再從中華民國國民裡面原住民占多少的人數這個在2025年的部分現在有數據了嗎"},{"start":19715.508,"end":19742.718,"text":"根文報告我現在手邊的數字是我們在原住民勞工朋友們的部分是2025年嗎2025年的部分直災死亡的件數有10人然後他的原住民的直災遷人率是3.267死亡遷人率是0.044那比113年略有下降但是無論如何我們都不樂見任何直災的發生"},{"start":19746.48,"end":19762.445,"text":"統計的時候在後面再補充之外包含受傷的部分這樣的話就會更完整那我們看這個報告裡面有勞動部的報告裡面特別提到"},{"start":19764.864,"end":19791.85,"text":"這個114年營造業死亡人數105人佔42%蠻高的然後相關的這個墜落致死亡高達67%而且是民間工程的比例超過7成而且死亡人數還製造業死亡人數還增加了增加了7人共63人所以這個都是需要繼續去加強防範"},{"start":19795.342,"end":19815.141,"text":"這個早期沒有話說但是現在相關的技術、科技各方面工程的那個技術或是那個都一直很先進的結果還是一樣這麼多這個都是需要去加強去檢討"},{"start":19816.942,"end":19831.27,"text":"謝謝委員指教因為在營造業的特性它時常比較容易有分包轉包的或者是協同公進的相應的部分那這部分謝謝大院的支持我們在職安法這一次的修正也把這部分列為一個重點"},{"start":19832.55,"end":19858.239,"text":"會去加強相應的施工的指揮協調還有相應的處理那至於製造業的部分可能跟他的不同的工作製程會有一定的關聯我們治安署會分析每一個個案的相關案件的成因然後針對相應的類型去對治安衛的部分如何去降災防災減災的部分再跟相關的工學會持續去做密切的合作"},{"start":19859.372,"end":19888.667,"text":"剛剛你有提到 確實是一個問題會造成這些質災的給付或是包括它有投保的比如說營造業它有投保的保險公司的認定就很多因為我們都會發生災害的會發生質災的都是第一線的工人而這些第一線的工人絕大部分都不是"},{"start":19890.915,"end":19913.784,"text":"第一線的承包商的所以以前他缺乏相關職安位的安全衛生的督導和協調都是大包中包小包勞工頭在勞工啊所以這個都是一個需要加強的部分然後我們看研明會的報告"},{"start":19915.586,"end":19925.617,"text":"這裡面提到這個確實是原住民的植栽的人數確實是比較高了我們看這個嚴明會的報告裡面提到"},{"start":19927.314,"end":19944.263,"text":"這個原住民族工作近年收入近年逐漸成長108年到起原住民族有酬就業者每人每月主要工作平均收入突破3萬元且逐年增加至113年已達35304年水準這個處長是這個數字你認為很好嗎"},{"start":19955.74,"end":19974.027,"text":"是有改善但是還不夠我們都還有那個改善的空間我覺得還有很多努力的空間這個紀理勞工的平均薪資最起碼差一萬塊是的你看台灣勞工的薪資狀況"},{"start":19977.021,"end":20001.808,"text":"2024年基本工資兩萬七千四百多然後這個每人每月經常性薪資平均是四萬六千四百五十這是2024年2025年基本工資兩萬八千多所以我們這個三萬出頭只是比基本工資多一點點而已如果要跟這個"},{"start":20003.808,"end":20020.255,"text":"這個平均勞工的平均薪資2025年是四萬七千七百零九少了一萬多了所以這個部分都是這不僅是人民會勞動部都是要去加強怎麼樣能夠"},{"start":20022.14,"end":20047.507,"text":"提升我們的事實上都是勞力的跟委員報告一下因為我們現在新一起的原住民住金九月方案當中已經有邀請六七個部會包含勞動部在內那我們過去都是從就業優先現在是轉為薪資提升那剛剛委員在講的那個差一萬塊的那個差距其實我們都有在掌握主要問題就是我們都是"},{"start":20049.397,"end":20070.329,"text":"第一包第二包第三包然後公投下面的對就是這樣就結構然後有有很多都沒有勞保啊對所以問題重重所以真的是要請勞動部跟嚴明會要加油好好謝謝謝謝謝謝曾天才委員的諮詢接下來請吳立華委員諮詢"},{"start":20084.834,"end":20087.418,"text":"謝謝主席 有請勞動部 袁銘慧請楊次長 羅處長吳委員好次長好"},{"start":20095.152,"end":20123.199,"text":"其實今天特別謝謝昭緯安排來關心我們原住民的勞工的勞動條件其實很多都是老生常談講到薪資低或者是職災的比例高這都是老生常談我其實是想要表達因為我來到立法院六年我常常面對我們原住民的勞工跟我講一件事"},{"start":20124.119,"end":20145.927,"text":"他們會跟我說可不可以去處理一下移工的問題但是我們台灣確實是缺工所以我們有這樣的一個移工的政策可是很感慨的就是偏偏我們台灣缺工的前五大"},{"start":20147.216,"end":20169.928,"text":"反而剛好恰巧就是原住民投入行業的前五大所以我們可以說原住民對台灣是非常有貢獻的當我們看到今年一月美國的攀岩家攀登101大樓可是101大樓是原住民勞工蓋的"},{"start":20171.741,"end":20194.512,"text":"所以在這樣的一個基層去從事這樣的一個勞動就業照理說我們是政府的寶很值得政府好好的來幫忙去解決原住民所面對的困境可是我就是不理解我以過去原住民勞工來講民國80年的時候30多年前"},{"start":20199.141,"end":20214.678,"text":"他們去做工鐵工綁鐵一天是可以拿到3000甚至工頭可以拿到5000可是35年過去怎麼會變成這樣所以他們就一直怪罪移工因為移工進來了之後"},{"start":20218.925,"end":20238.679,"text":"其實最大的問題癥結點像其實我們去現在很多國家日本我們也看到他們缺工的情形很嚴重那也用了很多的移工進來現在到日本我們看到的很多都是國外的從事他們的勞力工作可是台灣不一樣啊"},{"start":20240.967,"end":20250.835,"text":"我們要理解的是因為癥結點在於我們原住民的這些就業的職業求職的意向跟移工高度重疊那移工他賺到這些錢他回到他的國家非常的好用可以蓋房子可以買土地"},{"start":20266.448,"end":20292.214,"text":"可是我們卻倒退到只配得基本工資我們沒有辦法在台灣過上跟這些移工回國一樣好的生活所以我想這個部分包括現在的移工也非常多的逃逸到我們的原鄉像那些種茶的 種咖啡的 種高麗菜的"},{"start":20293.334,"end":20316.432,"text":"但是我們好像沒有辦法跟他們競爭所以在這個部分我就是比較想要了解一下我是希望勞動部跟我們的原民會針對目前原住民勞工這種窮忙又窮又忙的這種困境我不知道說到底有沒有提出移工開放對原住民就業衝擊的評估報告勞動部有沒有"},{"start":20320.405,"end":20334.779,"text":"跟委員報告以營造業來說其實當時營造業在處理移工開放的議題的時候我們其實跟原民會還有行政相關部會都很關切對原住民朋友的就業的影響"},{"start":20335.64,"end":20358.799,"text":"那後來開放主要是基於幾個考量第一個是說因為其實台灣的人口結構確實變化了那營造業真的就是缺人那導致了非法的失聯移工大量的湧入營造業那湧入營造業會產生兩個很複雜的現象第一個就是他的職場安全一定會有很大的問題那這會連帶影響到包括我們的勞工朋友"},{"start":20359.159,"end":20375.451,"text":"有原住民朋友在職場安全的部分那第二個部分就是說因為他是非法工作所以僱主always都用cost down的角度在做理解那某種程度上也會變相的去在勞動條件上面對我們其他的包括原住民朋友在內是不利的"},{"start":20375.811,"end":20405.243,"text":"所以回過頭來我們在營造業這邊的邏輯上是我們適度的去引進合法的移工然後讓他的經過一些適當的訓練讓他的職場安全衛生可以獲得確保讓他在相關的薪資條件上有一個基本的門檻那至於說原住民朋友在相應的這部分營造業也好或者服務業也好相對的勞動條件的部分我們跟原住民會來原住民會會一起來看看如何來"},{"start":20405.703,"end":20432.811,"text":"因為時間的關係我在這邊本席就是要求我希望勞動部跟原民會因為移工開放對原住民的就業衝擊他到底是我們的一個想像他還是真實的發生存在那到底要怎麼樣去保障我們國人的薪資原住民的這些勞工的薪資防護機制我希望可以提出一個報告可以嗎"},{"start":20434.852,"end":20459.929,"text":"一個月我是希望那個報告是策進作為喔包括園民會這個地方怎麼樣去照顧到保障原住民的勞工薪資如果他就跟移工拿的一樣人家回去很好過我們永遠就在底層我們是全國平均薪資的一半"},{"start":20461.738,"end":20487.238,"text":"我們永遠就生活在底層有多少人在貧窮線下所以這個部分其實對我們尤其是我要特別強調原住民沒有少子化的問題只有平均餘命短少的問題我們現在是對台灣很有貢獻我們的人口已經來到2.7%台灣原住民對台灣這個國家是很有貢獻的"},{"start":20488.854,"end":20508.501,"text":"但是我們竟然有這種薪資低勞動條件不佳然後呢教育高等教育我們的出債學率跟一般的大學生竟然落差30%然後我們的平均餘命又低我想這個都是整個告訴政府"},{"start":20509.401,"end":20515.843,"text":"我們沒有照顧好原住民我想這個部分就麻煩勞動部跟園民會可不可以就薪資的防護機制保護這一塊那移工的衝擊影響然後我們怎麼策進我們的薪資的保護提升那我希望一個月可以給我這樣的報告可以嗎"},{"start":20528.426,"end":20551.469,"text":"跟委員報告就是有關於植栽的減栽或者是強化技能修業輔導這部分我們本來就一直持續關注一個月內提出沒有對我是希望怎麼樣讓原住民的薪資可以增加跟移工有差異化薪資的部分如何去做提升然後如何去有一個衝擊評估這部分就需要比較多的"},{"start":20551.749,"end":20576.878,"text":"因為我們現在原住民就是被迫嘛你不願意跟移工拿一樣的薪資我也不想要你嘛關於這一塊有關於衝擊影響評估或針對原民朋友具體的情況去提出一個日本那些國家是沒有那麼多原住民啊台灣不一樣欸台灣很多原住民欸一個月可能會有一些困難是不是再給我們多一點的時間我們跟人民會可以一起可以兩個月三個月都可以"},{"start":20577.678,"end":20592.295,"text":"委員會我再補充一下那有關剛剛委員提到的一些影響評估那個外籍工的部分我們會拉到原住民健康狀況調查裡面那至於說在委員提到的二期計劃草案當中我們放說外籍"},{"start":20592.856,"end":20613.713,"text":"移工對於原住民的就業的一些影響的一些相關因應措施我們也會把這個計畫當中放進來那也有把剛剛委員講到的薪資保障的部分也會放到二期計畫來我們這個已經在3月20的時候由我們副主委召集六七個部會來去做一個相關計畫的因應 以上好 謝謝次長 謝謝處長 謝謝主席"},{"start":20619.619,"end":20620.301,"text":"好 謝謝我們陳市長及羅處長現在請"},{"start":20628.191,"end":20649.42,"text":"王宏威委員 王宏威不在我們接著請徐欣盈委員 徐欣盈委員 徐欣盈不在我們接著請岳元之委員 岳元之委員 岳元之委員不在我們接著請鄭振淺委員 鄭振淺委員 鄭振淺委員不在我們接著請林倩琦委員"},{"start":20660.66,"end":20681.213,"text":"好謝謝文主席盧昭偉接下來本席這邊的一個質詢先請這個衛福部的次長還有我們現在勞動部也是次長陳次長陳次長在然後跟園民會的這個代表"},{"start":20683.314,"end":20691.646,"text":"好 那本席第一個部分先針對這個原住民健康不平等跟公安的問題來請幾個部會來做一個討論那麼根據內政部的統計花蓮縣原住民的人口達到了94924人"},{"start":20698.675,"end":20719.175,"text":"那麼佔全國原住民大概15%以上那也佔花蓮縣人口的三成以上那麼也算是全國非常具有代表性的原住民族的這個聚集區那人口基本上應該是成長的但是健康狀況沒有同步的改善那麼113年呢整個花蓮縣原住民標準化的死亡率達每10萬人1170.8"},{"start":20721.838,"end":20748.194,"text":"那麼也高於這個所有標準化的750.3那甚至全國排名的也是第二那僅次於本席的這個故鄉台東那代表這中間原住民族的健康不平等的問題是事實存在的而且花東地區呈現高度集中跟結構性的一個特徵那本席關注的這個部分是死因跟事故傷害的問題那看起來在這個區塊特別嚴重"},{"start":20750.555,"end":20776.893,"text":"那麼整個花蓮縣事故的死亡當中的死亡率也偏高那麼顯示原住民在工作跟生活的環境當中承擔不成比例的風險所以本席這邊先就叫勞動部那麼原住民在從事高風險工作的比例比較高那目前針對原住民族的一個職業安全的預防機制跟勞檢機制那是不是有針對族群的特性跟產業的分布來進行調整"},{"start":20780.835,"end":20809.521,"text":"那是不是請勞動部這邊先回應 我先跟委員做報告等一下再請我們治安署林署長做補充第一件事情就是說原住民朋友主要的集中的工作場域大概就是營造業製造業跟服務業那近年來就是服務業是大宗但是看起來相應的植栽的發生事故率還有致死率最高的其實還是在營造業那營造業因為他的產業特性對這個本席剛才有聽到幾位原住民的"},{"start":20810.021,"end":20828.953,"text":"委員其實有提到這個區塊所以我跟委員報告當然我們做了幾件事第一個就是謝謝大院的支持我們在職安法修法的時候針對這樣一個多重轉包或分包如何去建立其他職安位的相關的督考底細我們做了處理那第二部分是我們也針對原鄉的部分有"},{"start":20830.233,"end":20858.691,"text":"原民的巡迴教室我們有在做相應的職業安全衛生甚至於勞保各方面的宣導那第三個部分我們對營造業也相對的有一些減災的計畫在執行那我想這是一般性的做法你們都有那對於原住民你們是以一般勞工來看待還是有族群的一個分布跟族群的特性跟產業的分布再去做一個更細部的處理呢"},{"start":20860.051,"end":20885.879,"text":"當然剛才跟回答鄭天才問也有同樣的質詢嘛就有關一般的營造業的部分我們確實是整個你們不要只談營造業啦剛才本席有談到原鄉尤其是燉鋪原鄉的這部分有關原鄉產業的特性相應的部分那這部分我們會跟原民會一起來協助如果這需要有相應的方案來處理我們會請治安署"},{"start":20888.34,"end":20904.846,"text":"本席希望這邊再更細緻一點剛才本席其實幾位原住民的委員在跟你們詢答的時候其實也有注意到這個區塊你們常常當然是本席的這個問題就是說你們是把它當一般勞工或者是整體性大概一致性的這樣一個看"},{"start":20905.947,"end":20923.728,"text":"看法可是剛才本席一進來其實就有先提到了區域的特殊性然後當然這個部分還會關係到產業的特性其實還有很多更細部的一個原因那本席這邊期待是說你們可以對細部的原因也更多的一個了解因為畢竟職災或勞工的區塊你們掌握都是相對比較高的"},{"start":20924.469,"end":20948.376,"text":"好 那麼當然待會兒我還可能再請你們做一個補充那接下來衛福部那本席在針對這個部分想要了解一下那我們整個原住民族的標準化的死亡率偏高那麼目前有沒有針對花東地區可以提出比較專案型的健康介入的一個措施那包括醫療的可請性跟事故以後的醫療資源配置那有沒有區域性的強化策略"},{"start":20949.036,"end":20977.14,"text":"OK 好 包委我們這邊還主要大概幾個部分一個當然就是說我們有一個就是花東基金那邊特別是有關於整個花東這邊的一個整個相關醫療量能的一個提高對本席這邊談到的醫療可靜性你們有沒有比較具體的一個措施醫療的可靜性跟事故以後的醫療資源的配置好 包委我們這邊大概幾個部分就是遠距醫療還有其實最重要事實上是醫事人力的一個提高"},{"start":20979.079,"end":20979.945,"text":"對沒錯 我這邊是不是請我們我們的副市長來跟"},{"start":20982.691,"end":21010.439,"text":"好 各位報告 那目前針對尤其是花東地區 我們對衛生所我們有專科援軍醫療的一個機制現在幾乎每個衛生所都已經有設置了這是第一個 第二個我們對在地的醫事人力培育一直都有也就是說援助民屬於援助民的部分 我們在公費的培育我們有這個公費的制度我們剛才講的這些東西我想一致性的一個推動"},{"start":21011.059,"end":21034.176,"text":"都有 但是本席要知道的是說 針對這個區域那醫療可靜性的一個分布那另外一個部分就是適合醫療的一個資源配置針對區域性的一個強化策略你們是不是有比較具體的一個措施那因為時間關係 我是不是也請你們會後做一個提供我簡單說一下就是說一樣花東 花蓮跟台東還是不一樣就是像維吾爾選區 台東其實主要應該還是靠衛生所"},{"start":21037.818,"end":21053.503,"text":"花蓮那邊因為它有一個花池它有醫學中心是以大代小但是台東是非常不一樣的16個衛生所裡面我跟委員報告我們現在我也剛從台東回來上禮拜其實我去那邊考察其實最重要事實上是整個台東那邊的衛生所這邊我們會提出一個新的計畫"},{"start":21054.763,"end":21070.034,"text":"對 其實期待的就是這樣其實感謝你至少知道花蓮跟台東不一樣那我也希望大家都知道宜蘭 花蓮 台東很不一樣所以在選擇政策上大家都會把它全部當東部可是如果當緯度一分或者是區域一分其實這樣差異還是很大的"},{"start":21071.135,"end":21095.354,"text":"台東它的整個總共是154公里從成功到南邊大武那邊我覺得整個這一個區域的分布包括整個北部靠近成功還有台東市還有大武這邊南回這邊我覺得應該都有一些因地制宜不同的策略那這邊我跟委員報告其實最主要是衛生所衛生所這邊我們的整個量能我覺得應該是最重要的一個重點"},{"start":21096.571,"end":21116.847,"text":"謝謝你們知道這樣一個問題所以本席比較期待看到是區域性的一個針對性的強化策略好那最後針對這個部分要請教三個部會那目前原住民的健康就業跟生活風險的這個問題其實分在不同的單位各自推動也缺乏整合那本席認為我們需要原住民族的健康專責機關"},{"start":21118.368,"end":21135.359,"text":"那原住民的健康問題不是只有醫療的問題還包括工作型態交通環境文化差異跟生活條件那這個部分不知道各部會是不是支持來推動設置原住民族健康專責機關作為跨部會整合的平台三個部會是不是可以給本席一個回應"},{"start":21136.892,"end":21154.69,"text":"跟委員報告就是我們跟衛福部還有原民會對原住民朋友各方面其實都有跨部會在協助當中至於說如何把這個機制做得更smooth更到位或者是推動的更部分這個部分我們也許可以再收集大家的意見來做考慮"},{"start":21154.85,"end":21176.768,"text":"那可能在更具體的 其實本席先前有提到就是在這個衛福部先前在討論某一些署的一個設置原住民的平均移民其實在現階段還是相較於一般來講有一個階段性的問題所以事實上在這個原住民的健康署的一個"},{"start":21177.929,"end":21193.46,"text":"這個方向是不是可以請你們考量跟討論看看好不好就是針對原住民健康照護的這個部分好嗎好 那也請大家支持一下至少原住民現在的平均營利我們希望能夠稍微及時地趕上好嗎"},{"start":21194.341,"end":21198.663,"text":"好 謝謝那最後 對不起那各部會請回出了這個園民會園民會我這邊可能做一個提醒那我現在是針對我們在整個家庭財富分配的這個部分要提醒你們注意一下那整個主計處最近的一個公告那整個家庭財富分配的統計那貧富差距也越來越大"},{"start":21214.348,"end":21228.359,"text":"這個問題其實已經很久了但是目前的數據已經從16.8的一個差距擴大到66.9已經算是全國性的問題但是我們通常全國性的問題在原住民的社群裡面就會更加的劇烈"},{"start":21229.84,"end":21234.905,"text":"所以原民會你們在110年的經濟狀況調查原住民的貧富差距也越來越大但是都會區跟原鄉也是差距很大這雖然是當然只是說擴大也比較嚴重像在都會區平均大概96萬5000元但是山地鄉跟平地鄉目前大概差不多是74跟73萬差距很明顯比過去也是擴大很多"},{"start":21255.982,"end":21282.862,"text":"那所以整個資源跟機會的一個分配集中在特定的區域跟族群那變成原住民族內部也有一些新的不平等所以我想要請教一下那針對都會區跟園鄉之間收入的一個差距那園民會是不是有區域均衡的一個政策以免相關的這個資源過度集中在都會那第二個部分是針對原住民族內部貧富差距擴大的問題你們是不是有一個跨部會的整合的策略"},{"start":21283.502,"end":21301.201,"text":"那怎麼來結合產業發展教育培力跟就業的機會從結構面上來進行改善那這個部分 余明慧有沒有比較具體的一些作為好 跟委員報告那剛剛委員提到應該是不但是跨部會也是跨處事的問題我們就從就業教育跟經濟產業"},{"start":21302.402,"end":21317.991,"text":"層面來講我們都是因主因地制宜來去推動相關計畫那在社會福利處的部分就促進就業方案當中也顧及到現在我們都議院地區有已經近60%以上的人口那在"},{"start":21319.389,"end":21339.497,"text":"金巴處的一些產業四年計劃當中也有針對一些我們都議員跟一些相關屏幕差距的部分來去做那所以我們也希望在我們的相關計劃當中可以去把那個屏幕差距縮短然後也把薪資可以縮短目前是有比較具體的嗎還是你們都有預設到這個問題我們都有相關的一個計劃"},{"start":21343.138,"end":21371.637,"text":"教育方面因為剛剛有提到一些教育要去做一個因為有30%的一個初再選那個錯學率我們也希望針對這部分來去做處理那總歸來講我們其實在顏名會跟部會當中都是有蠻多的一個跨部會的一個平臺包含是剛剛健康方面有健康政策會那勞動部方面我們有一個一個就業的一個相關平臺這些也都固定在開會我們也會把一些相關各部會之間跟顏住民有關係的一些相關計畫"},{"start":21373.018,"end":21400.383,"text":"就是你們已有的會會提供給本席好不好然後本席所談到的這個未來的策進作為那你們有什麼樣一個方向可能也給本席這邊一個回應那因為最近本席也提到在原住民方面不管是都會或是原鄉的一些教育的一個重點那本席可能會會也請你們能夠在這個部分緊密的做一些溝通好那謝謝那最後是我這邊針對兩個"},{"start":21402.983,"end":21419.697,"text":"還是針對可能我記得剛才那個盧委員在質詢的時候我沒有聽到一些那個部會比較確切的回應因為盧委員這邊他有提到那個促進原住民的就業獎勵那針對這個勞工的部分那園民會這邊有一些作為但是針對雇主的這個就是保險的這個部分的50%目前還在研議那我想請問一下這究竟是哪一個單位在處責是勞動部嗎"},{"start":21433.12,"end":21452.295,"text":"根文報告就我印象所及這部分是之前在談到說原住民朋友的勞工保險那個保費的部分雇主負擔的部分是不是要有一個協助的機制但這個協助的機制目前現階段看起來不太可能從公務機關的預算來處理"},{"start":21454.236,"end":21476.998,"text":"那我記得曾經在相應的保險有稍微談過但是相應的保險也目前在法院上也會有一些困難所以最終在這部分如何來做適度的處理我們可能要跟園民會這邊再來持續的討論就我所知道園民會後來有一些替代方案但是是不是可以符合大家的一個期待我們還要再持續的去溝通"},{"start":21477.839,"end":21495.791,"text":"所以目前也不太確定主責的一個單位吧是你們嗎就是勞動部如果說到最終是要補助雇主相關的勞保或者是相關保險的費用最終如果決定政策要處理會是勞動部要去處理但是現階段而言因為"},{"start":21496.411,"end":21515.303,"text":"因為包括涉及到經費多少如何去做處理然後在怎麼一個面向去做相應的機制協助那這部分原民會才會是比較專業的單位所以我們在這部分持續都有在一些討論那我們會在持續就這部分再來做一些釐清和了解看有沒有一些機會可以來處理"},{"start":21516.977,"end":21533.14,"text":"那就謝謝勞動部那希望未來假設你們主責的話那可能或是你們已有的相關報告在一些困難點那你說適不適合公部門然後怎麼個處理跟一些障礙我想你們應該會有一些記錄那是不是可以提供給本席做一個參考我們回去看"},{"start":21533.621,"end":21559.75,"text":"找一下相應的紀錄啦那因為這部分對勞動部來講我們比較不會直接單純針對特定的族群或特定的對象去提供相應的措施所以勢必要跟原民會做一些協助那包括發動或者說一些具體的影響評估這方面我們跟原民會會一起來再做一些處理那過往的一些相應的軌跡跟紀錄我們再來整理給委員"},{"start":21561.564,"end":21589.197,"text":"謝謝 那既然這樣 本席這邊有兩個東西其實有一個東西也是跟你們一來的時候其實教育部跟你們也是都有一些說對方的一個主責啦那我們這邊提兩個東西喔 一個也是呼籲剛才吳麗華委員這邊提的那麼移工對原住民就影響了一個衝擊那是不是你們最後到底是勞動部或者是園民會這邊可以有一個具體的這個結果 截至目前為止這個衝擊"},{"start":21590.237,"end":21617.5,"text":"正負面我想應該是要有一些評估嘛這部分我們跟原民會一起來處理那剛剛原民的處長有講他們在那個計畫裡面會去做沒有 你是在一個大計畫裡面會針對這個部分做一個評估可是本席要知道的是說我們先知道這個問題在哪裡然後你再計畫再施行而不是計畫施行之後你先把這個東西又包在裡面你如果不知道原因那可能原因問題只會越來越大所以本席提到的是一個比較單一的"},{"start":21619.321,"end":21640.176,"text":"究竟移工對原住民的影響有多大或者是正負面我覺得這個部分要先獨立出來我們先了解問題才知道如何解決問題那本席有聽到您剛才講的就是說目前有一個健康相關的計畫你要把它放進去做本席是覺得這樣有點雜本席要先知道那移工目前對原住民的影響在正負面來講"},{"start":21640.976,"end":21659.326,"text":"有哪一些狀態然後最後那個也是勞動部這邊本席一直要不然你們自己去跟教育部說啦可能也跟園民會商量本席不希望園民會到最後就是你們又大雜匯因為聽起來你會大雜匯的一個處理也就是那麼這個原住民的這個學生在"},{"start":21660.527,"end":21689.048,"text":"原專班之後呢那請問到社會上他的一個就業的他就業的形態到底是什麼我覺得目前你們各部會之間沒有沒有把它連結起來就是自己知道可能有一些數額可是我們沒有辦法知道這個系統性的狀態是什麼所以包括原住民的學生畢業以後就在原專班畢業以後那他就業的職場那勞動部你們說教育部做教育部認為勞動部要做其實本席已經兩年了還沒有拿到相關的資料"},{"start":21690.009,"end":21712.614,"text":"到最後不會又通通都是原民會做吧所以這個你們是不是研議一下我覺得今天有三個問題啦第一個就是有關於這個雇主的這個保險的這個補助那第二個部分呢就是原住民族的這個這個就業移工對原住民族就業的一個影響然後第三個部分是本席兩年都沒有拿到相關資料因為你們各部會都說其他人嘛"},{"start":21713.534,"end":21722.568,"text":"其他的部會所以到現在沒有一個部會真的能夠主責所以就是原住民的學生在學校學習尤其特別是原專班然後到了這個就業職場上的一個的這個數量還有數額還有比例這是本席"},{"start":21729.218,"end":21756.485,"text":"要知道的這樣我們才能就政策面來做一個檢討嘛好不好那這部分看起來所有單位都會找園民會可是希望園民會你們可不可以知道問題有些時候你們的量能可能沒有辦法去涵蓋到社會的整體面所以剛才那個問題先知道問題是什麼那我們再從你們的計畫政策裡面去做處理這樣才不會一堆問題都包進來結果到最後處理的並不是那麼有效度好不好"},{"start":21757.345,"end":21780.056,"text":"那也請勞動部跟這個相關的單位今天我們也有這個衛福部那針對本席所講的健康的這個問題可不可以針對原住民的健康那我們有一個獨立的單位來做處理至少把我們的平均餘命提高到比較接近這一般值那其他就是剛才本席所講的我們先找出問題然後再去處理這個問題的一個應對好嗎"},{"start":21783.004,"end":21806.043,"text":"好 跟委員再補充一下就是我們原住民的就業狀況調查當中其實有把那個外勞的那個影響那個數據是有放進來但是影響評估是沒有對影響評估這個東西有點系統性也有一些連接性你們真的是要跟那個勞動部這邊來更比較縝密的一個連結那才會知道比較細節性的一個問題在哪裡好嗎好的好 謝謝"},{"start":21807.881,"end":21823.01,"text":"好 謝謝我們林倩熙委員質詢接下來請侯孟凱委員侯孟凱委員侯孟凱委員不在我們接著請林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員不在我們接著請楊耀委員質詢"},{"start":21832.114,"end":21856.111,"text":"謝謝主席主席請一下勞動部次長吧請陳次長楊委員好次長好是次長我先前就已經有初步跟洪部長討論過有關降低加油幼童可聘僱外籍幫傭資格限制的鬆綁的問題"},{"start":21859.233,"end":21880.092,"text":"接下來也繼續跟你做相關的探討我們從去年8月份開始實施放寬80歲以上免82票就可以聘僱外籍看護移工即將上路的政策是降低家有幼童也可以聘僱外籍幫傭的資格"},{"start":21882.114,"end":21910.989,"text":"那社會各界大概最有疑慮的就是會不會有移工挑工作的狀況那先請教次長從先前我們放官80歲以上免巴士量表以後看護移工的勞動市場有沒有產生移工挑工作的狀況"},{"start":21912.539,"end":21939.744,"text":"這部分我們當然持續在做密切的注意我們也做一些相應的處理那其實移工最重要的問題是在於他的勞動條件如何可以適度的去做提升那至於去年80歲以上免評的情況出現那個大院通過之後我們在輕重的部分做了一些分流那重症的家庭基本上面我們都讓他一天之內就可以完成相應的審查一天啊"},{"start":21940.504,"end":21942.847,"text":"我們在國內推介都會一天就完成審查"},{"start":21949.163,"end":21974.797,"text":"我們審查的部分所以我們盡量在這樣一個政策放寬的情況底下不要影響到重症家庭的需求其實當初就是要80歲以上免巴士量表可以聘戶移工大家最大的疑慮就是這個政策也已經上路半年多了也就是說次長現在覺得並沒有"},{"start":21976.878,"end":22005.223,"text":"並沒有產生移工挑工作我們會盡量降低這樣一個可能的發生你們怎麼降低第一個部分當然是我們在重症家庭會優先然後第二個部分就是說在國內如果移工要轉換雇主的時候我們在優先排序上面還是會以重症家庭優先"},{"start":22006.786,"end":22019.738,"text":"那次長你們有沒有掌握到移工到了正正家庭可以工作多久有沒有這個數據"},{"start":22025.904,"end":22050.255,"text":"因為我們要觀察一個政策必須要從多面向去做觀察那剛剛剛好次長就回答到讓我想到這一點我們是不是應該要去我們回過頭再去看相關的資料因為移工基本上面我們在在聘僱是一次三年嘛那到底三年期滿的比例有多少有沒有辦法期滿"},{"start":22051.816,"end":22068.133,"text":"期滿中間如果沒有期滿就轉出是因為看護的長者不幸往生還是有其他的相關的問題我們可以再做資料上的大數案對這個我們假如說要真的很嚴肅面對"},{"start":22069.935,"end":22084.031,"text":"有沒有移工挑工作的狀況產生必須要去研究他未滿三年就離職的實際原因我們才能夠做政策的調整好不好所以我在這邊"},{"start":22086.365,"end":22112.367,"text":"提出一些問題你們假如說在這裡沒有答的很完整我基本上不大會為難你們可是你們回去真的必須要把它當作一個問題來認真面對好不好那現在我還是要提醒勞動部缺工是全球性的所以呢大概全球也就掀起了搶人大戰"},{"start":22114.775,"end":22138.155,"text":"有媒體報告就是日本跟韓國併顧外籍移工其實在相關的配套利多政策的配套部分不管是薪資或者是取得永居的限制都優於台灣那會不會台灣這幾年之所以不缺工是因為台灣這幾年台幣相較於日幣韓元是強勢的"},{"start":22144.172,"end":22162.626,"text":"我大概一個數據提供給次長相對疫情爆發的時候台幣對韓元的漲幅將近三成對日幣的漲幅大概38%可是呢所以也因為台幣強勢所以台灣"},{"start":22169.755,"end":22187.76,"text":"目前在招工比較沒有那麼困難可是匯率是變動的假如匯率有翻轉勞動部有沒有什麼比較長遠一點的政策對於吸引移工的部分"},{"start":22188.496,"end":22210.405,"text":"根本包括就移工的部分確實陳主委員所說全世界都在搶人日韓跟我們也都在競逐當中那移工會選擇日韓或選擇台灣當然經濟因素是一個那其他的因素也都有那這部分會整體的來看那以台灣目前來看我們對於這樣一個情況大概做幾件事"},{"start":22210.845,"end":22233.351,"text":"第一個就是說持續的提升相關的勞動條件然後第二個部分是去擴大來源國還有持續去優化國內雇主在人才移工招募的一些相應的過程那第三個就是讓外國的移工朋友進來台灣的時候得到比較友善的對待讓他的勞動條件可以比較"},{"start":22234.372,"end":22248.732,"text":"比較可以得到適度的保障那這部分我們持續的跟來源國的政府都還有一直持續在精進相應的作為剛剛次長講的就是有一些必須要雇主配合有一些必須要來源國"},{"start":22250.013,"end":22265.249,"text":"現在現有的勞動力輸出國來做協商那有關擴大來源國的部分這個就是全部主動權都在勞動部這裡你們現在方向是怎麼樣接觸了多少國家"},{"start":22265.669,"end":22293.934,"text":"跟委員報告就是第一個部分我們在原來的移工來源國除了最早的移工之外我們現在在處理跨國技術人力的部分那跟幾個來源國都持續的在洽談當中也得到積極正面的回應那我們在菲律賓已經今年1月份去設了勞工組那目前正在處理相應的事務那第二個就是說去菲律賓設的是不是就是跨國勞動力延展中心"},{"start":22294.814,"end":22312.765,"text":"跨國勞動力延攬中心是在台北這一邊的專案辦公室在那邊我們是在我們駐馬尼拉經濟文化辦事處裡面在我們的外交處裡面專設一個勞工組我們有派駐人員現在在那邊積極協調相應的事情"},{"start":22313.745,"end":22334.775,"text":"一個兩個兩個可是菲律賓本來就是我們的來源國我現在講的他那個部分是原來是只有移工我們現在要擴大輸入相應的技術人力那第二個部分當然就是之前過去大家持續有在討論包括印度、柬埔寨我現在講的是這個部分"},{"start":22337.376,"end":22355.964,"text":"這些其實外管有一些持續的評估其實包括但不限於這幾個國家但是這東西因為必須要涉及到國對國的基本的一個談判的understanding所以如果有比較具體的進展會跟大院來報告像印度基本上過去就簽了MOU所以相應的部分在積極的接洽當中"},{"start":22361.529,"end":22370.078,"text":"時間也到了我向來不大喜歡佔用大家太多時間那相關的問題我們還是後續再來做討論不過"},{"start":22373.971,"end":22396.257,"text":"部裡面也知道全球都在搶人所以有關勞動力的輸入怎麼保障已經進來的移工可以有一個很好的工作條件跟環境怎麼向外在原有的輸出國"},{"start":22398.578,"end":22422.132,"text":"增加招募的能力也好或者是再找新的勞動力輸出國家也好這個是部裡面必須要趕快去做的好不好好謝謝委員提醒我會朝這方向來努力好謝謝次長謝謝主席主席辛苦了好謝謝楊耀文委員質詢我是全院最後一個質詢的主席辛苦了好謝謝謝謝"},{"start":22428.296,"end":22453.212,"text":"本日會議詢問全部結束委員高金素梅 委員習新穎 委員林儲殷 所聽順便質詢列入紀錄刊登公報現在做以下決定報告及詢問完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請求補充資料者請相關機關兩週內以順便答覆委員領要求期限者從期所定"},{"start":22454.734,"end":22455.475,"text":"本次會議到此結束現在散會"}]}},{"id":"17319","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17319","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373dbbd6dedb4516fb0f144cd8b23c89c68c7a9d5466ed3f814071e8bc44dfc3f5a85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-04-01","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-04-01T08:33:38+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T15:24:00+08:00","duration":24622,"影片長度":"06:50:22","委員發言時間":"08:33:38 - 15:24:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1686.26534375,"end":1687.4972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1690.0453437500003,"end":1696.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1697.52096875,"end":1698.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1699.5797187500002,"end":1707.9159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1708.3040937500002,"end":1714.7334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1715.8472187500001,"end":1737.9534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1738.18971875,"end":1741.9022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1742.4759687500002,"end":1743.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1743.94409375,"end":1751.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1751.7234687500002,"end":1752.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1754.2547187500002,"end":1756.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1756.3978437500002,"end":1774.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1775.0447187500001,"end":1784.8153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1785.99659375,"end":1791.3797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1792.3922187500002,"end":1793.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1795.8853437500002,"end":1798.8553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1799.2434687500001,"end":1816.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1817.5359687500002,"end":1821.5353437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1822.7503437500002,"end":1826.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1828.4203437500003,"end":1831.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1832.3522187500002,"end":1832.6222187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1833.2634687500001,"end":1836.0984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1837.7184687500003,"end":1840.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1841.97096875,"end":1847.3709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1848.1640937500001,"end":1853.5640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1854.1378437500002,"end":1857.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1860.51659375,"end":1862.5584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1864.5497187500002,"end":1866.5072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1868.4478437500002,"end":1869.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1869.9665937500001,"end":1870.5909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1872.5147187500002,"end":1875.6197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1877.52659375,"end":1880.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1881.8128437500002,"end":1883.9559687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1885.42409375,"end":1885.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1885.4409687500001,"end":1888.0228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1889.9465937500001,"end":1892.6972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1894.55346875,"end":1897.0509687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1899.3122187500003,"end":1901.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1904.2734687500001,"end":1907.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1909.7747187500001,"end":1911.9178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1913.53784375,"end":1915.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1917.0815937500001,"end":1919.2078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1920.4734687500002,"end":1922.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1923.7640937500003,"end":1925.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1927.5440937500002,"end":1928.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1928.87721875,"end":1930.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1932.1172187500001,"end":1936.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1938.69846875,"end":1940.9428437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1942.7315937500002,"end":1944.9759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1946.6972187500003,"end":1948.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1950.6290937500003,"end":1956.0965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1958.2228437500003,"end":1960.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1962.2390937500002,"end":1964.5678437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1966.00221875,"end":1971.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1972.6847187500002,"end":1974.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1978.08471875,"end":1979.5528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1981.2740937500002,"end":1983.2315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1984.7165937500001,"end":1985.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1985.3240937500002,"end":1986.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1989.4415937500003,"end":2008.6790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2017.5890937500003,"end":2018.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2019.0572187500002,"end":2021.0315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2022.0272187500002,"end":2032.5572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2032.9622187500001,"end":2035.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2036.9615937500002,"end":2038.2272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2038.54784375,"end":2039.6278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2039.8640937500002,"end":2046.9515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2047.5928437500002,"end":2048.7740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2049.31409375,"end":2051.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2051.6765937500004,"end":2086.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2087.0465937500003,"end":2095.9903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2096.91846875,"end":2117.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2118.55221875,"end":2118.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2119.4297187500006,"end":2138.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2139.51096875,"end":2147.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2147.3240937500004,"end":2147.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2148.3365937500002,"end":2162.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2165.90346875,"end":2168.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2168.7890937500006,"end":2176.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2176.33221875,"end":2188.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2189.1572187500005,"end":2194.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2195.14784375,"end":2209.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2209.2722187500003,"end":2209.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2210.26784375,"end":2229.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2230.02846875,"end":2238.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2239.0059687500006,"end":2254.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2254.6659687500005,"end":2294.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2295.25034375,"end":2303.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2310.3028437500006,"end":2310.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2311.33221875,"end":2313.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2313.74534375,"end":2469.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2469.8897187500006,"end":2567.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2567.66346875,"end":2575.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2585.26409375,"end":2590.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2590.19159375,"end":2723.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2723.89221875,"end":2747.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2747.21346875,"end":2747.2472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2747.2472187500007,"end":2747.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2747.7197187500005,"end":2750.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2750.5378437500003,"end":2757.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2763.29534375,"end":2764.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2764.9659687500007,"end":2765.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2766.06284375,"end":2768.1553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2768.4590937500006,"end":2830.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2830.7109687500006,"end":2862.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2862.9590937500006,"end":2874.2653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2874.55221875,"end":2895.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2895.2409687500003,"end":2946.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2946.03471875,"end":2947.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2947.5028437500005,"end":2947.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2947.53659375,"end":2954.3709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2958.69096875,"end":2971.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2971.8365937500002,"end":2973.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2978.09721875,"end":2978.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2978.9747187500006,"end":3014.4459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3014.54721875,"end":3023.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3023.89596875,"end":3029.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3029.5997187500006,"end":3033.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3033.88596875,"end":3057.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3057.2578437500006,"end":3059.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3059.3503437500003,"end":3060.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3061.18971875,"end":3063.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3063.41721875,"end":3063.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3063.90659375,"end":3064.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3065.1384687500004,"end":3065.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3065.8134687500005,"end":3068.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3068.66534375,"end":3069.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3070.9265937500004,"end":3071.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3072.22596875,"end":3073.5759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3073.60971875,"end":3077.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3078.85784375,"end":3083.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3084.22409375,"end":3086.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3087.10971875,"end":3091.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3091.56471875,"end":3093.5897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3098.8378437500005,"end":3100.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3100.86284375,"end":3101.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3101.52096875,"end":3101.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3104.3897187500006,"end":3104.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3104.42346875,"end":3104.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3105.43596875,"end":3105.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3106.95471875,"end":3118.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3118.9697187500005,"end":3181.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3181.54221875,"end":3188.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3194.5359687500004,"end":3209.2003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3209.58846875,"end":3236.0822187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3236.7403437500006,"end":3288.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3289.4072187500005,"end":3299.4815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3299.5828437500004,"end":3316.4747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3317.03159375,"end":3322.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3324.22034375,"end":3342.0065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3349.46534375,"end":3352.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3352.58721875,"end":3362.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3362.9990937500006,"end":3375.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3375.79034375,"end":3403.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3403.8534687500005,"end":3404.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3404.6972187500005,"end":3409.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3410.2322187500004,"end":3412.7634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3413.3709687500004,"end":3428.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3429.43596875,"end":3430.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3430.93784375,"end":3435.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3435.69659375,"end":3448.7578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3449.38221875,"end":3450.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3451.12034375,"end":3457.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3457.4990937500006,"end":3461.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3462.0215937500006,"end":3463.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3464.28284375,"end":3470.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3470.5603437500004,"end":3478.9472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3480.3309687500005,"end":3485.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3485.8659687500003,"end":3494.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3494.40471875,"end":3505.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3506.2509687500005,"end":3510.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3510.6384687500004,"end":3511.8534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3513.2540937500007,"end":3527.1084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3527.31096875,"end":3531.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3532.4578437500004,"end":3536.9972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3538.02659375,"end":3543.6290937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3544.60784375,"end":3546.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3546.5147187500006,"end":3547.3584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3547.9997187500003,"end":3549.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3549.92346875,"end":3551.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3552.0665937500007,"end":3553.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3554.2265937500006,"end":3569.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3569.5828437500004,"end":3571.5909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3571.91159375,"end":3574.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3575.1178437500002,"end":3576.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3576.67034375,"end":3578.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3578.6784687500003,"end":3580.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3581.0409687500005,"end":3585.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3585.34409375,"end":3587.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3587.8415937500004,"end":3592.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3593.1065937500007,"end":3596.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3596.5997187500006,"end":3607.9903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3609.10409375,"end":3609.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3610.2684687500005,"end":3611.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3612.47909375,"end":3616.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3617.0859687500006,"end":3628.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3628.79721875,"end":3635.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3635.6484687500006,"end":3642.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3643.02284375,"end":3649.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3649.5703437500006,"end":3654.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3655.25721875,"end":3658.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3659.2228437500007,"end":3667.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3667.7109687500006,"end":3677.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3677.97096875,"end":3678.6290937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3678.81471875,"end":3682.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3682.7128437500005,"end":3685.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3685.9528437500003,"end":3688.8047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3690.50909375,"end":3695.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3696.1453437500004,"end":3703.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3704.3465937500005,"end":3710.3878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3710.7422187500006,"end":3712.8347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3714.8934687500005,"end":3715.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3716.24346875,"end":3752.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3752.96346875,"end":3758.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3759.4434687500006,"end":3764.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3765.31596875,"end":3772.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3772.3865937500004,"end":3776.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3777.2128437500005,"end":3778.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3779.1534687500007,"end":3781.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3782.5790937500005,"end":3796.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3797.4459687500002,"end":3805.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3806.1365937500004,"end":3812.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3812.7009687500004,"end":3830.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3831.83721875,"end":3843.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3844.1728437500005,"end":3847.8009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3850.9734687500004,"end":3852.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3853.5722187500005,"end":3858.8878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3860.3390937500008,"end":3861.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3861.79034375,"end":3862.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3862.5665937500007,"end":3864.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3864.5915937500004,"end":3870.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3870.64971875,"end":3872.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3873.18096875,"end":3875.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3875.89784375,"end":3877.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3877.77096875,"end":3882.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3882.8165937500007,"end":3886.4953437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3888.19971875,"end":3889.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3889.6678437500004,"end":3891.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3892.3172187500004,"end":3893.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3895.4728437500007,"end":3897.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3898.20659375,"end":3898.7634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3898.98284375,"end":3900.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3901.69971875,"end":3904.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3904.6865937500006,"end":3904.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3905.6315937500003,"end":3906.3740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3907.7409687500003,"end":3908.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3908.92221875,"end":3909.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3909.8503437500003,"end":3911.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3912.12846875,"end":3912.6515937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3913.0734687500008,"end":3918.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3919.5534687500003,"end":3920.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3920.54909375,"end":3921.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3921.7809687500003,"end":3922.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3923.9072187500005,"end":3924.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3926.4384687500005,"end":3928.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3928.9697187500005,"end":3959.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3961.25159375,"end":3961.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3962.2809687500003,"end":3963.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3963.83346875,"end":3967.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3969.3009687500007,"end":3973.7559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3974.12721875,"end":3975.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3976.3547187500008,"end":3981.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3981.8390937500008,"end":3983.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3984.6572187500005,"end":3986.6990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3987.3065937500005,"end":3992.1159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3992.7403437500006,"end":3995.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3996.4190937500007,"end":3999.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3999.99659375,"end":4000.4353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4001.00909375,"end":4005.3965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4007.33721875,"end":4009.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4010.18909375,"end":4011.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4012.34909375,"end":4018.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4020.0440937500007,"end":4023.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4023.48659375,"end":4025.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4025.8153437500005,"end":4032.3965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4032.7509687500005,"end":4036.0753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4036.56471875,"end":4037.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4038.26909375,"end":4038.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4040.3447187500005,"end":4040.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4040.91846875,"end":4044.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4044.9684687500003,"end":4051.3809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4052.73096875,"end":4054.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4055.31284375,"end":4061.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4061.8603437500005,"end":4062.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4062.4509687500004,"end":4063.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4063.8009687500007,"end":4070.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4070.8547187500008,"end":4078.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4079.3934687500005,"end":4080.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4080.5409687500005,"end":4084.3547187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4084.60784375,"end":4085.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4086.53159375,"end":4097.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4097.97284375,"end":4116.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4117.51409375,"end":4119.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4119.99471875,"end":4132.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4132.56659375,"end":4138.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4138.8778437500005,"end":4145.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4145.49284375,"end":4146.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4147.99034375,"end":4148.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4149.1209687499995,"end":4152.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4152.360968749999,"end":4153.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4154.099093750001,"end":4155.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4156.2928437499995,"end":4159.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4159.296593749999,"end":4159.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4160.747843749999,"end":4163.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4163.59971875,"end":4166.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4166.890343749999,"end":4167.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4167.464093750001,"end":4177.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4178.12909375,"end":4181.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4182.11159375,"end":4200.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4200.6572187500005,"end":4213.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4213.80284375,"end":4214.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4214.477843750001,"end":4230.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4230.1884687500005,"end":4231.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4231.70721875,"end":4239.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4239.77346875,"end":4244.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4245.359093749999,"end":4247.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4248.092843750001,"end":4252.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4254.06659375,"end":4296.034718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4296.034718749999,"end":4306.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4310.68221875,"end":4312.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4313.68596875,"end":4314.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4315.997843749999,"end":4316.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4320.75659375,"end":4321.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4321.7353437500005,"end":4322.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4323.11909375,"end":4354.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4355.147843750001,"end":4356.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4357.122218750001,"end":4357.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4358.337218750001,"end":4363.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4363.83846875,"end":4364.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4364.715968750001,"end":4367.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4368.934718750001,"end":4371.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4371.34784375,"end":4379.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4379.36346875,"end":4394.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4394.6522187499995,"end":4394.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4395.39471875,"end":4411.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4412.40471875,"end":4413.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4413.90659375,"end":4419.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4415.27346875,"end":4415.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4415.3915937500005,"end":4415.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4415.526593750001,"end":4415.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4419.8465937500005,"end":4434.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4434.81471875,"end":4436.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4436.620343750001,"end":4437.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4437.936593750001,"end":4514.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4515.122843749999,"end":4518.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4518.48096875,"end":4525.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4523.577218750001,"end":4523.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4525.36596875,"end":4530.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4530.66471875,"end":4555.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4530.95159375,"end":4531.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4543.05096875,"end":4543.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4550.239718750001,"end":4550.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4552.18034375,"end":4553.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4554.76221875,"end":4558.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4557.81659375,"end":4558.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4558.89659375,"end":4558.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4558.964093750001,"end":4571.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4560.24659375,"end":4560.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4561.545968750001,"end":4561.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4562.575343750001,"end":4562.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4562.69346875,"end":4562.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4570.92846875,"end":4587.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4573.29096875,"end":4573.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4587.71909375,"end":4591.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4591.9715937500005,"end":4597.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4597.55721875,"end":4631.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4631.64471875,"end":4646.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4636.538468750001,"end":4636.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4636.774718750001,"end":4636.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4636.84221875,"end":4636.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4644.267218749999,"end":4644.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4644.38534375,"end":4644.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4644.62159375,"end":4644.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4646.86596875,"end":4652.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4652.58659375,"end":4755.405968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4754.88284375,"end":4774.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4757.68409375,"end":4757.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4772.9559687500005,"end":4775.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4774.3397187499995,"end":4777.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4775.858468750001,"end":4788.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4788.3290937500005,"end":4794.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4798.92659375,"end":4800.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4801.18784375,"end":4801.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4801.94721875,"end":4801.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4802.95971875,"end":4803.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4808.241593750001,"end":4808.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4808.663468750001,"end":4808.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4808.86596875,"end":4867.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4868.384093750001,"end":4875.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4876.23096875,"end":4881.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4881.884093750001,"end":4882.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4883.419718749999,"end":4888.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4887.790343750001,"end":4987.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4988.36534375,"end":5020.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5020.495343750001,"end":5023.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5020.950968749999,"end":5021.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5021.0184687500005,"end":5021.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5021.50784375,"end":5021.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5024.325968749999,"end":5028.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5025.91221875,"end":5026.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5027.717843750001,"end":5028.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5028.07221875,"end":5031.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5029.202843749999,"end":5033.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5033.421593749999,"end":5034.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5034.5184687500005,"end":5034.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5034.53534375,"end":5034.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5034.99096875,"end":5035.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5035.294718749999,"end":5044.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5044.52534375,"end":5050.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5049.53721875,"end":5050.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5050.026593750001,"end":5050.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5050.9715937500005,"end":5053.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5052.81096875,"end":5053.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5053.33409375,"end":5053.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5053.94159375,"end":5055.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5055.76409375,"end":5057.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5056.79346875,"end":5059.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5059.89846875,"end":5061.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5061.923468749999,"end":5065.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5062.159718750001,"end":5062.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5062.9697187500005,"end":5067.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5066.64846875,"end":5066.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5066.665343750001,"end":5073.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5072.35221875,"end":5075.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5074.05659375,"end":5081.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5080.9247187500005,"end":5102.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5102.8622187500005,"end":5109.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5107.41846875,"end":5107.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5107.97534375,"end":5108.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5108.0428437499995,"end":5108.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5109.24096875,"end":5109.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5109.274718750001,"end":5110.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5110.28721875,"end":5114.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5110.60784375,"end":5110.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5112.312218749999,"end":5119.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5116.817843750001,"end":5122.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5119.872218750001,"end":5120.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5120.20971875,"end":5120.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5122.57221875,"end":5168.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5169.265343749999,"end":5170.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5171.08784375,"end":5177.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5178.1415937500005,"end":5182.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5181.314093749999,"end":5185.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5185.026593750001,"end":5188.064093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5185.110968749999,"end":5185.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5188.18221875,"end":5195.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5193.548468749999,"end":5205.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5204.6522187499995,"end":5208.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5208.077843749999,"end":5216.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5216.02596875,"end":5263.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5216.802218750001,"end":5216.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5232.597218750001,"end":5234.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5264.06909375,"end":5273.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5273.87346875,"end":5361.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5361.370343750001,"end":5368.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5364.1209687499995,"end":5365.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5368.93034375,"end":5371.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5371.64721875,"end":5374.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5374.769093750001,"end":5376.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5376.91221875,"end":5379.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5379.6122187500005,"end":5380.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5380.624718749999,"end":5394.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5394.15846875,"end":5399.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5398.41096875,"end":5400.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5400.8915937500005,"end":5400.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5400.94221875,"end":5406.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5401.41471875,"end":5401.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5402.798468749999,"end":5403.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5403.6590937500005,"end":5403.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5404.84034375,"end":5408.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5408.97471875,"end":5418.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5416.669718749999,"end":5437.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5432.430968750001,"end":5432.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5432.4647187499995,"end":5433.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5433.44346875,"end":5433.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5434.354718750001,"end":5434.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5434.37159375,"end":5438.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5438.759093750001,"end":5451.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5451.71909375,"end":5471.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5452.05659375,"end":5452.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5452.1747187500005,"end":5452.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5452.19159375,"end":5452.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5452.259093750001,"end":5452.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5452.3603437500005,"end":5452.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5470.720343749999,"end":5484.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5471.800343750001,"end":5471.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5473.33596875,"end":5473.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5473.47096875,"end":5473.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5473.52159375,"end":5473.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5483.64659375,"end":5521.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5484.7772187499995,"end":5485.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5520.231593750001,"end":5521.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5522.12159375,"end":5523.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5523.876593749999,"end":5525.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5524.51784375,"end":5528.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5527.04909375,"end":5528.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5528.432843750001,"end":5530.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5531.26784375,"end":5535.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5534.474093750001,"end":5537.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5538.220343749999,"end":5542.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5541.139718750001,"end":5541.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5542.13534375,"end":5542.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5542.37159375,"end":5542.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5543.232218749999,"end":5546.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5547.180968750001,"end":5548.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5548.024718750001,"end":5549.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5557.542218750001,"end":5560.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5560.680968750001,"end":5562.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5567.802218750001,"end":5569.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5569.2197187500005,"end":5575.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5576.69534375,"end":5584.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5585.1834687499995,"end":5588.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5588.54159375,"end":5590.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5591.190968750001,"end":5592.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5593.13159375,"end":5593.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5593.907843749999,"end":5595.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5596.27034375,"end":5596.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5596.94534375,"end":5606.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5607.357218749999,"end":5612.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5612.6728437500005,"end":5618.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5619.405968749999,"end":5624.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5626.155968749999,"end":5628.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5628.90659375,"end":5640.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5641.073468750001,"end":5641.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5642.40659375,"end":5644.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5644.684718750001,"end":5644.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5646.15284375,"end":5646.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5646.169718749999,"end":5669.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5661.30659375,"end":5661.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5661.357218749999,"end":5661.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5670.452843749999,"end":5677.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5677.776593750001,"end":5683.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5683.04159375,"end":5683.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5683.1259687500005,"end":5683.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5683.9697187500005,"end":5693.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5686.770968750001,"end":5687.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5691.66471875,"end":5692.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5692.727843750001,"end":5709.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5709.16409375,"end":5729.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5709.2147187499995,"end":5710.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5729.329718749999,"end":5744.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5744.753468750001,"end":5748.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5748.48284375,"end":5768.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5769.8465937500005,"end":5778.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5778.72284375,"end":5780.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5781.70971875,"end":5783.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5783.39721875,"end":5784.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5784.47721875,"end":5787.548468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5787.85221875,"end":5792.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5793.555968750001,"end":5795.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5795.88471875,"end":5805.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5805.975968750001,"end":5807.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5807.78159375,"end":5807.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5807.9334687499995,"end":5807.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5807.950343750001,"end":5807.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5808.94596875,"end":5832.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5832.689093750001,"end":5835.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5835.929093750001,"end":5865.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5865.966593749999,"end":5885.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5882.4872187500005,"end":5884.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5885.03534375,"end":5885.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5885.08596875,"end":5885.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5885.2040937500005,"end":5889.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5891.21159375,"end":5892.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5893.675343750001,"end":5896.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5896.965968750001,"end":5897.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5897.03346875,"end":5897.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5897.97846875,"end":5899.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5898.14721875,"end":5899.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5899.817843750001,"end":5908.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5899.98659375,"end":5900.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5900.003468750001,"end":5900.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5900.762843750001,"end":5900.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5900.93159375,"end":5900.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5900.96534375,"end":5901.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5901.032843750001,"end":5912.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5912.82846875,"end":5923.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5912.845343750001,"end":5913.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5921.519093750001,"end":5923.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5923.965968750001,"end":5926.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5924.337218750001,"end":5926.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5926.17659375,"end":5926.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5926.311593750001,"end":5926.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5926.32846875,"end":5926.345343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5926.345343750001,"end":5926.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5926.69971875,"end":5926.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5926.733468750001,"end":5935.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5926.83471875,"end":5927.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5927.3915937500005,"end":5929.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5932.75784375,"end":5937.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5936.942843750001,"end":5970.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5970.52409375,"end":5973.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5974.304093750001,"end":5974.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5975.519093750001,"end":5980.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5980.9697187500005,"end":5981.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5981.138468749999,"end":5987.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5988.24284375,"end":5990.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5988.968468749999,"end":5993.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5993.91284375,"end":5995.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5995.80284375,"end":5995.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5995.904093749999,"end":5996.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5996.190968750001,"end":6003.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6003.24471875,"end":6003.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6003.81846875,"end":6007.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6005.74221875,"end":6011.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6007.98659375,"end":6009.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6011.935343749999,"end":6021.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6021.975968750001,"end":6030.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6027.932843750001,"end":6029.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6031.392218750001,"end":6043.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6043.45784375,"end":6047.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6048.53721875,"end":6051.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6051.81096875,"end":6052.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6052.772843750001,"end":6060.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6061.109093749999,"end":6063.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6064.686593750001,"end":6074.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6069.02346875,"end":6069.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6069.546593749999,"end":6069.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6075.19971875,"end":6079.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6079.46909375,"end":6079.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6079.51971875,"end":6079.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6079.536593750001,"end":6081.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6081.62909375,"end":6094.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6081.66284375,"end":6082.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6094.31909375,"end":6120.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6105.372218750001,"end":6107.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6109.118468750001,"end":6110.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6120.76221875,"end":6124.626593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6123.05721875,"end":6123.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6124.626593750001,"end":6124.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6124.913468750001,"end":6125.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6125.284718750001,"end":6125.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6125.30159375,"end":6132.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6132.4228437500005,"end":6157.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6144.28596875,"end":6148.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6150.76596875,"end":6151.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6154.967843750001,"end":6156.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6157.85346875,"end":6159.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6157.954718750001,"end":6159.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6159.54096875,"end":6159.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6159.608468750001,"end":6159.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6159.96284375,"end":6160.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6160.030343750001,"end":6167.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6168.265343749999,"end":6170.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6170.6278437500005,"end":6174.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6175.200968749999,"end":6186.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6182.82846875,"end":6186.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6186.38909375,"end":6202.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6201.5428437499995,"end":6202.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6202.859093749999,"end":6202.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6202.909718750001,"end":6212.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6211.04346875,"end":6211.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6212.03909375,"end":6230.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6228.86346875,"end":6251.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6231.71534375,"end":6232.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6232.592843750001,"end":6232.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6232.98096875,"end":6233.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6233.03159375,"end":6233.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6234.29721875,"end":6234.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6251.003468750001,"end":6251.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6251.08784375,"end":6251.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6251.12159375,"end":6262.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6262.967843750001,"end":6266.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6266.22471875,"end":6267.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6268.772843750001,"end":6274.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6274.544093750001,"end":6277.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6275.35409375,"end":6275.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6276.7040937500005,"end":6279.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6279.032843750001,"end":6310.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6280.399718750001,"end":6280.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6281.3447187500005,"end":6281.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6282.087218750001,"end":6282.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6310.538468750001,"end":6310.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6311.1122187500005,"end":6312.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6312.81659375,"end":6329.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6329.607218749999,"end":6340.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6340.50846875,"end":6342.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6342.499718749999,"end":6343.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6347.663468750001,"end":6349.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6355.729718750001,"end":6357.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6357.974093750001,"end":6358.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6364.55534375,"end":6364.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6364.99409375,"end":6365.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6365.63534375,"end":6366.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6367.05284375,"end":6374.376593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6374.798468750001,"end":6402.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6403.013468749999,"end":6422.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6422.757218750001,"end":6451.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6431.81909375,"end":6431.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6451.815968750001,"end":6458.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6458.5322187500005,"end":6482.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6483.2372187500005,"end":6487.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6487.70909375,"end":6490.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6490.74659375,"end":6495.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6495.690968750001,"end":6496.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6496.18034375,"end":6517.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6506.40659375,"end":6507.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6517.29096875,"end":6518.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6517.71284375,"end":6524.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6525.34034375,"end":6525.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6526.2684687500005,"end":6527.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6527.02784375,"end":6527.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6527.58471875,"end":6527.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6529.6434687500005,"end":6546.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6546.43409375,"end":6546.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6546.80534375,"end":6579.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6546.82221875,"end":6546.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6555.090968750001,"end":6555.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6555.968468749999,"end":6556.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6565.6209687499995,"end":6567.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6577.83846875,"end":6577.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6577.872218750001,"end":6578.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6579.745343750001,"end":6614.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6615.30096875,"end":6649.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6619.04721875,"end":6619.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6627.85596875,"end":6627.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6631.19721875,"end":6631.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6649.1522187499995,"end":6649.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6650.282843750001,"end":6660.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6660.9647187499995,"end":6664.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6664.32284375,"end":6668.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6668.524718750001,"end":6680.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6678.9872187500005,"end":6695.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6693.48284375,"end":6693.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6696.38534375,"end":6704.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6704.434718750001,"end":6711.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6711.555968750001,"end":6712.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6713.2772187499995,"end":6717.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6717.968468749999,"end":6719.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6719.6728437500005,"end":6724.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6722.339093750001,"end":6729.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6727.0809687500005,"end":6728.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6728.39721875,"end":6846.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6846.52221875,"end":6866.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6866.97471875,"end":6867.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6868.32471875,"end":6868.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6870.48471875,"end":6874.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6874.4334687499995,"end":6874.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6874.905968749999,"end":6874.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6874.99034375,"end":6878.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6878.97284375,"end":6897.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6883.2928437499995,"end":6883.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6897.58596875,"end":6946.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6946.590968750001,"end":6957.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6948.71721875,"end":6950.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6951.67034375,"end":6952.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6958.13346875,"end":6965.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6965.811593750001,"end":6968.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6968.69721875,"end":6969.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6969.72659375,"end":6971.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6971.279093749999,"end":6973.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6973.70909375,"end":7013.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6977.4384687500005,"end":6977.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7013.702843750001,"end":7029.126593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7029.362843750001,"end":7043.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7043.79096875,"end":7044.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7044.06096875,"end":7051.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7044.128468750001,"end":7044.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7044.19596875,"end":7044.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7044.24659375,"end":7044.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7051.75596875,"end":7072.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7072.495343750001,"end":7074.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7074.975968750001,"end":7075.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7076.612843750001,"end":7082.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7077.06846875,"end":7077.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7078.772843750001,"end":7085.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7089.454718750001,"end":7091.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7102.904093749999,"end":7103.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7103.91659375,"end":7104.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7104.7772187499995,"end":7106.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7106.54909375,"end":7107.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7107.66284375,"end":7108.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7113.889718750001,"end":7114.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7114.46346875,"end":7137.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7138.13909375,"end":7139.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7139.64096875,"end":7158.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7159.28346875,"end":7160.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7161.07221875,"end":7181.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7181.659718750001,"end":7184.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7185.38909375,"end":7192.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7195.5478437500005,"end":7206.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7206.53346875,"end":7215.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7216.18596875,"end":7222.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7217.940968750001,"end":7220.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7222.24409375,"end":7223.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7224.420968750001,"end":7226.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7224.4715937500005,"end":7231.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7232.284718750001,"end":7263.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7235.001593750001,"end":7235.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7235.052218750001,"end":7235.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7235.474093750001,"end":7235.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7235.710343750001,"end":7236.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7262.845343750001,"end":7271.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7272.092843750001,"end":7272.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7273.122218750001,"end":7306.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7306.60221875,"end":7314.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7317.419093750001,"end":7335.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7332.52221875,"end":7340.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7340.2509687500005,"end":7343.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7344.132218750001,"end":7344.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7344.16596875,"end":7363.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7363.42034375,"end":7371.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7371.975968750001,"end":7388.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7388.935343749999,"end":7391.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7391.939093750001,"end":7399.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7399.920968750001,"end":7400.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7401.15284375,"end":7405.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7407.53159375,"end":7423.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7422.887843750001,"end":7423.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7423.579718750001,"end":7441.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7441.4334687499995,"end":7449.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7449.415343750001,"end":7456.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7457.5322187500005,"end":7459.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7460.02971875,"end":7474.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7474.2215937500005,"end":7555.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7475.74034375,"end":7475.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7554.0740937499995,"end":7562.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7562.427218750001,"end":7565.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7565.97096875,"end":7575.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7566.645968750001,"end":7566.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7566.747218750001,"end":7567.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7573.61534375,"end":7577.985968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7575.505343750001,"end":7588.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7588.65096875,"end":7595.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7595.60346875,"end":7605.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7603.450343750001,"end":7618.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7616.35971875,"end":7640.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7634.97284375,"end":7635.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7635.00659375,"end":7636.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7639.51221875,"end":7647.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7640.153468750001,"end":7641.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7648.18596875,"end":7651.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7651.88159375,"end":7664.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7662.124718750001,"end":7690.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7687.94346875,"end":7688.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7689.10784375,"end":7701.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7690.677218750001,"end":7690.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7699.350968750001,"end":7699.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7701.966593749999,"end":7707.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7708.56471875,"end":7709.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7709.577218750001,"end":7715.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7715.17971875,"end":7751.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7751.44409375,"end":7759.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7759.1728437500005,"end":7771.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7766.749718750001,"end":7767.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7770.698468750001,"end":7771.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7771.05284375,"end":7771.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7771.964093750001,"end":7781.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7781.329718750001,"end":7785.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7785.936593750001,"end":7786.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7793.26034375,"end":7793.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7793.3447187500005,"end":7793.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7793.614718750001,"end":7793.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7793.665343750001,"end":7794.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7794.745343750001,"end":7795.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7796.196593750001,"end":7799.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7803.01409375,"end":7803.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7803.53721875,"end":7803.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7803.57096875,"end":7804.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7804.954718750001,"end":7805.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7806.28784375,"end":7813.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7814.55659375,"end":7837.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7837.47284375,"end":7850.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7850.9559687500005,"end":7851.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7851.63096875,"end":7852.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7853.03159375,"end":7853.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7853.35221875,"end":7853.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7854.3309687500005,"end":7894.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7854.48284375,"end":7854.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7854.95534375,"end":7854.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7881.56721875,"end":7881.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7895.50596875,"end":7896.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7897.024718750001,"end":7912.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7912.296593750001,"end":7917.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7917.42659375,"end":7932.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7932.9178437499995,"end":7933.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7933.32284375,"end":7934.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7934.0653437500005,"end":7952.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7934.08221875,"end":7934.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7956.458468750001,"end":7957.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7959.25971875,"end":7961.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7962.044093750001,"end":7962.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7962.9384687500005,"end":7969.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7969.857218749999,"end":7976.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7976.40471875,"end":7991.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7984.960343750001,"end":7987.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7987.019093750001,"end":7987.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7991.67659375,"end":8042.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8042.757218750001,"end":8070.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8069.16659375,"end":8077.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8077.452218750001,"end":8085.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8077.84034375,"end":8078.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8084.337218750001,"end":8084.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8085.43409375,"end":8088.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8087.12159375,"end":8100.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8099.4403437500005,"end":8190.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8101.17846875,"end":8104.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8104.97534375,"end":8105.700968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8191.442843750001,"end":8230.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8217.700343750003,"end":8218.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8231.301593750002,"end":8236.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8235.351593750001,"end":8254.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8237.950343750003,"end":8238.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8254.63971875,"end":8266.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8259.195968750002,"end":8259.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8259.22971875,"end":8259.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8259.28034375,"end":8259.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8259.465968750003,"end":8261.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8261.980343750001,"end":8263.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8265.59159375,"end":8266.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8266.90784375,"end":8275.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8269.169093750003,"end":8269.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8273.640968750002,"end":8279.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8276.66159375,"end":8277.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8278.24784375,"end":8281.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8282.247218750003,"end":8296.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8296.81034375,"end":8298.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8298.852218750002,"end":8317.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8315.86221875,"end":8316.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8317.414718750002,"end":8343.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8342.54159375,"end":8346.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8344.87034375,"end":8346.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8347.317218750002,"end":8353.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8353.29096875,"end":8369.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8353.88159375,"end":8353.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8353.965968750003,"end":8354.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8356.109093750001,"end":8356.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8369.42346875,"end":8382.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8380.999718750001,"end":8387.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8387.445968750002,"end":8394.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8394.027218750001,"end":8396.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8404.75971875,"end":8406.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8407.24034375,"end":8408.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8409.02909375,"end":8412.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8414.05784375,"end":8414.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8414.88471875,"end":8437.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8437.800968750002,"end":8441.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8441.90159375,"end":8444.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8445.090968750003,"end":8447.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8447.94284375,"end":8451.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8452.245968750001,"end":8467.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8467.804718750001,"end":8476.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8476.512218750002,"end":8481.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8482.941593750002,"end":8485.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8488.527218750001,"end":8489.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8489.590343750002,"end":8490.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8491.075343750003,"end":8494.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8495.14221875,"end":8508.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8509.33409375,"end":8516.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8516.82659375,"end":8518.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8519.72909375,"end":8522.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8522.766593750002,"end":8523.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8523.25596875,"end":8548.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8548.78784375,"end":8550.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8550.660968750002,"end":8586.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8587.144718750002,"end":8643.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8643.895343750002,"end":8691.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8691.75284375,"end":8692.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8693.47409375,"end":8697.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8698.06409375,"end":8704.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8705.539718750002,"end":8710.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8710.24784375,"end":8711.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8712.20534375,"end":8721.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8722.80284375,"end":8728.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8726.312843750002,"end":8726.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8728.540343750003,"end":8729.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8728.894718750002,"end":8732.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8731.847843750002,"end":8732.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8733.09659375,"end":8733.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8733.957218750002,"end":8734.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8735.13846875,"end":8741.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8740.065968750001,"end":8770.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8742.42846875,"end":8743.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8765.90159375,"end":8766.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8770.390343750001,"end":8774.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8775.520343750002,"end":8782.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8782.793468750002,"end":8830.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8831.79846875,"end":8848.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8844.03284375,"end":8845.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8848.16721875,"end":8897.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8898.25221875,"end":8905.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8906.031593750002,"end":8908.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8908.84971875,"end":8958.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8922.113468750002,"end":8922.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8922.45096875,"end":8922.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8922.51846875,"end":8922.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8958.293468750002,"end":8961.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8961.972218750001,"end":8984.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8985.884093750003,"end":9020.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9021.304718750001,"end":9029.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9029.759093750003,"end":9034.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9035.445968750002,"end":9038.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9039.614093750002,"end":9041.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9042.027218750001,"end":9056.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9056.10096875,"end":9067.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9056.640968750002,"end":9056.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9056.70846875,"end":9056.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9064.42034375,"end":9064.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9064.52159375,"end":9064.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9064.977218750002,"end":9066.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9066.023468750001,"end":9066.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9067.62659375,"end":9074.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9074.12346875,"end":9074.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9165.09659375,"end":9168.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9167.003468750001,"end":9167.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9386.20971875,"end":9388.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9388.57221875,"end":9392.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9406.527218750001,"end":9409.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9410.13846875,"end":9413.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9418.390343750001,"end":9423.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9423.97596875,"end":9423.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9424.22909375,"end":9497.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9498.023468750001,"end":9562.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9563.886593750001,"end":9565.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9566.14784375,"end":9574.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9574.079093750002,"end":9580.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9580.99784375,"end":9590.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9582.43221875,"end":9583.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9589.53659375,"end":9589.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9590.042843750001,"end":9592.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9592.202843750001,"end":9598.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9595.425968750002,"end":9595.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9598.919093750003,"end":9628.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9598.952843750001,"end":9599.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9628.956593750001,"end":9638.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9638.44034375,"end":9646.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9642.996593750002,"end":9649.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9650.269718750002,"end":9667.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9650.894093750001,"end":9651.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9651.164093750001,"end":9651.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9651.36659375,"end":9651.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9668.157218750002,"end":9669.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9670.01346875,"end":9670.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9671.27909375,"end":9672.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9672.207218750002,"end":9675.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9675.98721875,"end":9677.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9678.34971875,"end":9680.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9680.50971875,"end":9681.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9683.00721875,"end":9685.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9686.31471875,"end":9688.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9688.356593750003,"end":9690.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9690.938468750002,"end":9690.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9691.02284375,"end":9691.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9691.05659375,"end":9706.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9707.40846875,"end":9714.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9714.36096875,"end":9720.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9717.887843750003,"end":9718.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9719.64284375,"end":9720.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9720.85784375,"end":9787.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9720.874718750001,"end":9722.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9788.273468750001,"end":9790.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9795.32721875,"end":9796.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9796.20471875,"end":9825.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9825.972218750001,"end":9829.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9831.844718750002,"end":9832.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9834.359093750001,"end":9835.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9837.278468750003,"end":9839.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9839.590343750002,"end":9844.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9845.496593750002,"end":9847.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9847.21784375,"end":9847.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9847.234718750002,"end":9847.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9848.43284375,"end":9849.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9849.27659375,"end":9855.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9856.95471875,"end":9857.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9859.367843750002,"end":9864.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9861.156593750002,"end":9861.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9861.17346875,"end":9861.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9864.97034375,"end":9886.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9890.08034375,"end":9891.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9891.76784375,"end":9892.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9894.09659375,"end":9897.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9899.125343750002,"end":9902.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9902.820968750002,"end":9904.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9904.79534375,"end":9905.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9910.347218750001,"end":9919.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9919.93221875,"end":9920.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9920.843468750001,"end":9922.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9922.227218750002,"end":9922.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9924.285968750002,"end":9932.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9929.46659375,"end":9930.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9931.660343750002,"end":9941.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9936.33471875,"end":9938.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9941.12721875,"end":9956.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9956.399093750002,"end":9956.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9956.702843750001,"end":9991.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9991.85346875,"end":9997.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9991.87034375,"end":9992.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9999.278468750003,"end":10036.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10036.57221875,"end":10051.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10051.894718750002,"end":10077.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10077.308468750001,"end":10077.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10077.51096875,"end":10077.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10077.96659375,"end":10086.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10087.46721875,"end":10092.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10093.12034375,"end":10098.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10099.937843750002,"end":10106.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10107.059093750002,"end":10108.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10109.50596875,"end":10110.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10110.97409375,"end":10111.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10111.058468750001,"end":10111.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10111.125968750002,"end":10111.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10111.26096875,"end":10111.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10111.39596875,"end":10111.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10111.446593750003,"end":10113.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10113.10034375,"end":10116.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10117.21784375,"end":10117.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10117.234718750002,"end":10140.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10117.26846875,"end":10118.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10140.08346875,"end":10145.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10143.863468750002,"end":10144.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10145.601593750001,"end":10145.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10145.85471875,"end":10146.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10145.922218750002,"end":10156.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10150.309718750003,"end":10150.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10151.71034375,"end":10151.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10155.65909375,"end":10171.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10171.74096875,"end":10192.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10194.387218750002,"end":10197.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10197.930968750003,"end":10215.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10210.82346875,"end":10211.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10211.211593750002,"end":10211.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10216.172843750002,"end":10222.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10223.20971875,"end":10225.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10225.72409375,"end":10263.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10263.996593750002,"end":10265.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10265.110343750002,"end":10265.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10265.852843750003,"end":10265.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10265.97096875,"end":10268.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10268.45159375,"end":10272.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10273.007843750001,"end":10281.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10278.188468750002,"end":10280.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10280.21346875,"end":10284.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10281.83346875,"end":10281.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10284.719093750002,"end":10354.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10354.952843750001,"end":10364.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10364.976593750001,"end":10369.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10370.07284375,"end":10370.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10373.886593750001,"end":10373.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10373.954093750002,"end":10377.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10377.04221875,"end":10377.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10377.902843750002,"end":10378.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10378.35846875,"end":10378.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10379.910968750002,"end":10382.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10382.712218750003,"end":10382.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10382.72909375,"end":10389.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10389.25971875,"end":10421.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10421.575343750003,"end":10422.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10423.16159375,"end":10426.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10427.32971875,"end":10428.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10429.33784375,"end":10432.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10445.352218750002,"end":10446.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10447.47846875,"end":10449.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10453.317218750002,"end":10454.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10455.44346875,"end":10457.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10457.99159375,"end":10459.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10459.93221875,"end":10462.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10465.73721875,"end":10467.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10467.559718750003,"end":10469.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10469.73659375,"end":10470.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10471.64346875,"end":10472.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10473.449093750001,"end":10475.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10475.457218750002,"end":10478.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10478.629718750002,"end":10480.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10480.50284375,"end":10482.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10483.35471875,"end":10484.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10484.940968750001,"end":10489.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10490.10471875,"end":10491.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10492.16346875,"end":10493.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10494.188468750002,"end":10495.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10496.09534375,"end":10502.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10503.38534375,"end":10506.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10506.827843750001,"end":10508.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10509.375968750002,"end":10512.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10512.480968750002,"end":10513.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10514.421593750001,"end":10515.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10515.99096875,"end":10516.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10517.273468750001,"end":10520.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10521.120968750001,"end":10522.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10523.196593750003,"end":10525.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10525.62659375,"end":10528.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10528.90034375,"end":10531.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10531.836593750002,"end":10533.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10533.895343750002,"end":10534.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10534.992218750001,"end":10539.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10540.054718750001,"end":10542.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10543.73346875,"end":10544.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10545.167843750001,"end":10557.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10550.145968750003,"end":10550.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10551.25971875,"end":10554.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10556.929718750001,"end":10558.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10558.735343750002,"end":10559.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10559.96721875,"end":10565.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10565.82284375,"end":10566.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10566.07596875,"end":10566.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10566.801593750002,"end":10568.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10566.83534375,"end":10567.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10569.231593750003,"end":10571.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10571.93159375,"end":10576.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10576.57221875,"end":10576.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10577.297843750002,"end":10578.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10579.27221875,"end":10581.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10583.136593750001,"end":10586.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10587.59159375,"end":10590.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10591.574093750001,"end":10593.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10595.421593750001,"end":10597.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10598.08784375,"end":10599.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10600.61909375,"end":10604.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10607.622218750003,"end":10608.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10610.558468750001,"end":10610.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10612.39784375,"end":10620.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10619.13096875,"end":10619.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10619.18159375,"end":10619.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10621.08846875,"end":10623.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10623.09659375,"end":10627.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10627.72034375,"end":10628.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10628.68221875,"end":10631.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10633.086593750002,"end":10634.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10635.128468750001,"end":10635.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10637.052218750003,"end":10637.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10638.33471875,"end":10640.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10640.562218750001,"end":10649.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10650.09659375,"end":10651.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10651.497218750003,"end":10654.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10655.344718750002,"end":10659.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10660.10346875,"end":10670.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10671.02159375,"end":10678.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10678.71659375,"end":10682.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10683.37409375,"end":10688.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10688.48721875,"end":10695.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10695.50721875,"end":10695.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10696.469093750002,"end":10696.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10697.430968750003,"end":10698.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10698.56159375,"end":10703.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10704.41721875,"end":10711.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10711.487843750001,"end":10713.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10714.289093750001,"end":10719.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10719.65534375,"end":10722.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10722.28784375,"end":10723.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10724.093468750001,"end":10725.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10725.56159375,"end":10727.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10727.92409375,"end":10728.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10729.847843750002,"end":10731.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10733.62784375,"end":10736.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10737.00284375,"end":10737.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10740.05721875,"end":10742.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10743.027218750001,"end":10745.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10745.96346875,"end":10751.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10752.07221875,"end":10752.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10753.86096875,"end":10755.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10756.071593750003,"end":10756.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10756.965968750003,"end":10757.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10757.82659375,"end":10762.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10762.956593750001,"end":10765.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10765.63971875,"end":10767.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10768.69409375,"end":10770.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10771.191593750002,"end":10774.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10774.97159375,"end":10776.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10777.840343750002,"end":10779.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10779.24096875,"end":10781.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10782.329093750002,"end":10782.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10783.03784375,"end":10785.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10787.543468750002,"end":10793.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10794.78284375,"end":10796.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10796.655968750001,"end":10797.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10797.65159375,"end":10799.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10799.997218750003,"end":10801.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10801.22909375,"end":10802.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10802.32596875,"end":10804.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10805.39721875,"end":10807.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10807.72596875,"end":10817.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10818.35721875,"end":10821.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10821.985343750002,"end":10827.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10827.452843750001,"end":10828.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10829.511593750001,"end":10830.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10830.878468750001,"end":10831.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10832.54909375,"end":10840.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10841.391593750002,"end":10846.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10846.977218750002,"end":10847.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10848.968468750001,"end":10850.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10850.774093750002,"end":10854.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10855.65096875,"end":10855.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10855.667843750001,"end":10856.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10857.01784375,"end":10860.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10860.274718750003,"end":10860.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10860.325343750003,"end":10861.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10860.71346875,"end":10861.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10861.28721875,"end":10861.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10862.35034375,"end":10865.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10865.421593750001,"end":10872.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10872.27284375,"end":10872.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10872.610343750002,"end":10873.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10872.660968750002,"end":10872.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10873.032218750002,"end":10883.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10880.37284375,"end":10881.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10883.882843750001,"end":10894.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10894.56471875,"end":10895.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10896.218468750001,"end":10902.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10903.05284375,"end":10915.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10904.21721875,"end":10905.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10916.13096875,"end":10924.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10924.26471875,"end":10924.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10924.68659375,"end":10925.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10925.395343750002,"end":10925.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10925.47971875,"end":10925.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10925.56409375,"end":10928.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10928.601593750001,"end":10929.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10928.63534375,"end":10928.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10928.669093750003,"end":10929.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10930.086593750002,"end":10930.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10930.69409375,"end":10933.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10934.052218750003,"end":10937.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10937.427218750003,"end":10937.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10937.899718750003,"end":10937.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10937.96721875,"end":10942.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10948.075343750003,"end":10951.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10951.450343750003,"end":10953.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10967.262218750002,"end":10968.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10968.98346875,"end":10969.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10969.523468750001,"end":10970.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10971.177218750003,"end":10972.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10975.530968750001,"end":10976.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10977.015968750002,"end":10979.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10979.715968750003,"end":11044.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11045.02221875,"end":11077.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11071.70159375,"end":11073.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11076.899093750002,"end":11079.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11077.75971875,"end":11077.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11079.49784375,"end":11079.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11079.61596875,"end":11080.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11080.864718750003,"end":11089.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11086.129718750002,"end":11086.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11089.977218750002,"end":11106.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11090.702843750001,"end":11091.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11106.61596875,"end":11109.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11109.282218750002,"end":11109.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11111.492843750002,"end":11111.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11111.50971875,"end":11137.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11137.969718750002,"end":11161.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11161.965968750003,"end":11189.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11189.961593750002,"end":11202.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11202.38159375,"end":11213.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11213.097218750001,"end":11214.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11214.02534375,"end":11217.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11214.329093750002,"end":11215.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11217.50159375,"end":11230.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11231.102843750003,"end":11248.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11246.08784375,"end":11247.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11247.539093750001,"end":11275.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11275.450343750003,"end":11275.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11275.652843750002,"end":11275.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11275.804718750001,"end":11275.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11275.855343750001,"end":11275.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11275.88909375,"end":11275.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11275.905968750001,"end":11276.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11276.024093750002,"end":11276.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11276.597843750002,"end":11276.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11276.85096875,"end":11284.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11277.42471875,"end":11278.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11283.398468750001,"end":11283.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11284.630343750003,"end":11285.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11285.609093750001,"end":11288.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11288.37659375,"end":11340.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11288.511593750001,"end":11289.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11289.692843750003,"end":11289.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11310.17909375,"end":11310.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11310.364718750003,"end":11310.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11310.48284375,"end":11310.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11340.55409375,"end":11405.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11405.759093750003,"end":11439.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11439.880343750003,"end":11452.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11452.941593750002,"end":11463.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11464.281593750002,"end":11509.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11509.38846875,"end":11563.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11561.734718750002,"end":11561.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11561.75159375,"end":11562.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11563.320968750002,"end":11573.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11563.86096875,"end":11564.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11572.51784375,"end":11579.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11576.145968750003,"end":11587.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11587.90784375,"end":11681.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11682.57659375,"end":11688.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11688.499718750001,"end":11689.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11688.617843750002,"end":11689.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11689.832843750002,"end":11691.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11690.86221875,"end":11694.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11691.06471875,"end":11691.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11691.21659375,"end":11691.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11695.75596875,"end":11720.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11703.92346875,"end":11703.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11703.94034375,"end":11704.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11720.950343750003,"end":11723.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11724.24096875,"end":11724.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11724.257843750001,"end":11743.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11743.96784375,"end":11744.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11744.81159375,"end":11744.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11744.84534375,"end":11784.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11785.075343750003,"end":11795.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11796.837218750003,"end":11799.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11799.874718750001,"end":11816.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11816.445968750002,"end":11857.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11857.890968750002,"end":11889.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11890.594718750002,"end":11910.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11895.25221875,"end":11895.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11910.91221875,"end":11912.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11913.12284375,"end":11913.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11914.371593750002,"end":11921.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11914.50659375,"end":11915.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11916.160343750002,"end":11919.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11921.273468750001,"end":11959.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11960.81159375,"end":12073.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12074.380343750003,"end":12076.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12077.012843750003,"end":12090.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12091.390343750001,"end":12091.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12091.42409375,"end":12093.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12091.440968750001,"end":12140.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12095.54159375,"end":12095.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12095.96346875,"end":12096.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12097.785968750002,"end":12098.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12139.905968750001,"end":12162.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12162.231593750003,"end":12195.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12195.20534375,"end":12199.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12199.74471875,"end":12199.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12200.16659375,"end":12201.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12201.027218750001,"end":12204.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12209.582843750002,"end":12213.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12218.62784375,"end":12219.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12219.167843750001,"end":12312.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12312.891593750002,"end":12364.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12365.01846875,"end":12367.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12368.07284375,"end":12370.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12370.65471875,"end":12374.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12374.164718750002,"end":12380.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12377.15159375,"end":12377.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12379.902218750001,"end":12383.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12382.29846875,"end":12385.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12384.40784375,"end":12400.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12385.36971875,"end":12385.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12401.012843750003,"end":12406.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12406.73346875,"end":12416.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12416.01471875,"end":12440.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12416.43659375,"end":12417.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12441.15846875,"end":12441.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12443.04846875,"end":12474.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12475.11096875,"end":12476.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12476.562218750001,"end":12519.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12519.762218750002,"end":12519.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12519.77909375,"end":12531.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12532.047218750002,"end":12546.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12546.458468750003,"end":12575.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12572.715968750003,"end":12573.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12573.25596875,"end":12576.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12576.05721875,"end":12581.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12577.69409375,"end":12578.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12578.672843750002,"end":12599.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12586.35096875,"end":12586.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12586.367843750002,"end":12586.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12586.45221875,"end":12586.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12586.50284375,"end":12586.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12597.117218750001,"end":12597.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12598.602218750002,"end":12615.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12616.01721875,"end":12632.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12632.774093750002,"end":12632.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12632.79096875,"end":12679.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12679.534718750001,"end":12691.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12681.27284375,"end":12681.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12689.457218750002,"end":12689.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12689.625968750002,"end":12689.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12691.769093750001,"end":12691.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12691.80284375,"end":12691.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12691.90409375,"end":12692.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12692.190968750001,"end":12692.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12693.16971875,"end":12696.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12696.527843750002,"end":12699.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12699.278468750003,"end":12701.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12701.03346875,"end":12703.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12703.04159375,"end":12703.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12703.61534375,"end":12711.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12712.187843750002,"end":12722.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12723.426593750002,"end":12729.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12729.51846875,"end":12731.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12731.67846875,"end":12737.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12737.770343750002,"end":12743.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12738.69846875,"end":12739.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12740.33534375,"end":12741.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12742.360343750002,"end":12747.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12748.35096875,"end":12753.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12753.109718750002,"end":12755.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12757.530968750001,"end":12759.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12758.324093750001,"end":12758.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12759.10034375,"end":12787.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12761.142218750003,"end":12761.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12761.73284375,"end":12761.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12770.33909375,"end":12770.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12788.41221875,"end":12804.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12805.152218750001,"end":12819.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12819.765968750002,"end":12835.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12835.88159375,"end":12840.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12840.42096875,"end":12847.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12848.26784375,"end":12861.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12861.02534375,"end":12884.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12884.39721875,"end":12887.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12886.995968750001,"end":12887.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12887.468468750001,"end":12887.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12887.519093750001,"end":12893.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12892.68284375,"end":12894.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12894.083468750003,"end":12894.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12894.454718750003,"end":12897.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12896.226593750001,"end":12896.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12897.137843750003,"end":12897.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12897.37409375,"end":12920.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12918.653468750003,"end":12919.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12920.35784375,"end":12920.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12920.762843750003,"end":12922.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12923.68221875,"end":12926.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12926.027843750002,"end":12931.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12931.74846875,"end":12931.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12936.13596875,"end":12937.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12937.77284375,"end":12939.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12939.49409375,"end":12940.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12945.737843750001,"end":12946.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12946.29471875,"end":13030.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13030.720343750003,"end":13037.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13038.95534375,"end":13062.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13059.964718750001,"end":13083.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13084.230968750002,"end":13102.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13102.118468750003,"end":13116.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13115.871593750002,"end":13120.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13116.597218750001,"end":13116.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13120.49534375,"end":13126.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13126.047218750002,"end":13141.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13141.58909375,"end":13216.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13214.320343750001,"end":13218.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13218.40409375,"end":13228.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13229.558468750001,"end":13243.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13242.04596875,"end":13242.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13243.969718750002,"end":13246.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13247.00721875,"end":13267.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13267.274093750002,"end":13292.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13272.47159375,"end":13275.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13275.239093750002,"end":13275.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13278.47909375,"end":13278.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13292.55284375,"end":13297.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13297.058468750001,"end":13310.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13298.340968750003,"end":13298.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13310.879093750002,"end":13325.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13315.722218750001,"end":13316.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13325.13846875,"end":13326.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13326.285968750002,"end":13424.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13326.31971875,"end":13326.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13424.81909375,"end":13425.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13426.55721875,"end":13442.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13443.95534375,"end":13462.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13453.50659375,"end":13454.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13455.76784375,"end":13456.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13463.327843750001,"end":13492.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13489.484093750001,"end":13513.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13514.67846875,"end":13517.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13515.707843750002,"end":13529.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13521.546593750001,"end":13523.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13523.26784375,"end":13523.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13529.376593750003,"end":13532.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13531.82346875,"end":13532.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13533.08909375,"end":13536.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13536.379718750002,"end":13538.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13537.72971875,"end":13552.579718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13551.398468750001,"end":13562.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13561.692218750002,"end":13566.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13565.40471875,"end":13566.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13566.974093750003,"end":13567.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13567.04159375,"end":13567.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13567.19346875,"end":13567.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13567.21034375,"end":13655.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13567.36221875,"end":13567.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13655.68596875,"end":13704.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13704.31971875,"end":13724.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13724.35034375,"end":13729.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13724.55284375,"end":13724.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13727.286593750003,"end":13727.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13727.57346875,"end":13727.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13727.691593750002,"end":13727.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13727.759093750003,"end":13727.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13727.97846875,"end":13738.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13729.024718750003,"end":13729.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13729.36221875,"end":13729.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13729.395968750003,"end":13729.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13729.78409375,"end":13730.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13737.37784375,"end":13737.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13738.390343750001,"end":13783.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13740.33096875,"end":13740.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13744.17846875,"end":13744.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13744.634093750003,"end":13744.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13744.75221875,"end":13744.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13755.484718750002,"end":13755.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13756.51409375,"end":13756.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13756.969718750002,"end":13757.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13757.222843750002,"end":13757.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13757.88096875,"end":13758.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13758.15096875,"end":13758.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13783.68284375,"end":13785.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13786.450343750003,"end":13786.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13787.294093750003,"end":13801.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13801.03034375,"end":13808.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13816.977218750002,"end":13818.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13818.95159375,"end":13820.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13820.16659375,"end":13821.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13826.933468750001,"end":13840.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13840.58534375,"end":13854.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13854.625343750002,"end":13881.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13881.91221875,"end":13883.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13883.565968750001,"end":13899.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13899.968468750001,"end":13951.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13951.909718750001,"end":13957.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13957.343468750001,"end":13959.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13960.12784375,"end":13965.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13965.96659375,"end":13970.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13970.843468750001,"end":13971.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13971.636593750001,"end":13985.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13986.081593750001,"end":13988.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13988.680343750002,"end":14005.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13990.199093750001,"end":13992.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13992.96659375,"end":13993.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13993.03409375,"end":13993.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13993.067843750003,"end":13993.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13993.101593750001,"end":13993.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13993.18596875,"end":13993.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13993.253468750001,"end":13993.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13993.45596875,"end":13993.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13993.590968750003,"end":13993.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13993.742843750002,"end":13993.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13995.02534375,"end":13995.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13996.03784375,"end":13996.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13997.10096875,"end":13998.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13999.36221875,"end":13999.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14003.85096875,"end":14006.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14006.53409375,"end":14007.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14006.989718750003,"end":14008.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14008.457843750002,"end":14048.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14048.046593750001,"end":14066.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14067.01409375,"end":14067.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14068.12784375,"end":14089.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14089.559093750002,"end":14101.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14101.23659375,"end":14120.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14120.71034375,"end":14132.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14132.94471875,"end":14162.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14159.94471875,"end":14160.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14161.98659375,"end":14168.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14165.918468750002,"end":14166.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14166.72846875,"end":14167.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14168.078468750002,"end":14170.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14168.095343750003,"end":14168.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14171.622218750003,"end":14191.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14183.45159375,"end":14186.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14191.720343750003,"end":14203.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14203.48221875,"end":14210.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14206.789718750002,"end":14208.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14208.03846875,"end":14208.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14209.995968750001,"end":14210.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14210.535968750002,"end":14211.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14211.76784375,"end":14212.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14213.337218750003,"end":14214.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14215.058468750001,"end":14225.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14225.976593750001,"end":14229.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14225.993468750003,"end":14226.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14229.300968750002,"end":14230.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14229.621593750002,"end":14231.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14231.64659375,"end":14232.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14232.152843750002,"end":14240.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14232.18659375,"end":14232.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14240.657843750003,"end":14257.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14257.465343750002,"end":14265.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14266.071593750003,"end":14271.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14272.028468750003,"end":14274.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14275.825343750003,"end":14284.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14285.460968750001,"end":14285.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14285.477843750003,"end":14285.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14285.933468750001,"end":14285.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14286.16971875,"end":14286.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14287.890968750002,"end":14291.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14290.523468750001,"end":14291.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14291.72159375,"end":14291.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14291.87346875,"end":14291.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14291.97471875,"end":14292.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14292.02534375,"end":14300.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14292.210968750001,"end":14292.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14294.18534375,"end":14294.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14294.45534375,"end":14295.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14295.09659375,"end":14295.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14300.969093750002,"end":14308.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14308.96784375,"end":14312.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14310.70596875,"end":14314.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14314.50284375,"end":14317.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14316.578468750002,"end":14319.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14317.641593750002,"end":14326.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14322.855968750002,"end":14324.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14325.555968750003,"end":14332.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14327.00721875,"end":14328.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14331.73221875,"end":14332.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14333.352218750002,"end":14339.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14333.402843750002,"end":14335.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14340.473468750002,"end":14341.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14341.519718750002,"end":14344.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14345.367218750001,"end":14347.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14348.219093750002,"end":14352.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14350.581593750001,"end":14352.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14352.876593750003,"end":14353.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14353.24784375,"end":14355.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14355.89721875,"end":14356.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14357.297843750002,"end":14358.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14358.58034375,"end":14368.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14367.43971875,"end":14369.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14369.12721875,"end":14370.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14370.679718750001,"end":14385.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14370.76409375,"end":14371.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14384.48346875,"end":14384.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14384.618468750003,"end":14384.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14384.871593750002,"end":14384.939093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14385.023468750001,"end":14417.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14416.74846875,"end":14420.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14418.11534375,"end":14418.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14419.65096875,"end":14422.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14421.355343750001,"end":14423.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14423.363468750002,"end":14444.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14428.544093750003,"end":14428.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14444.44034375,"end":14444.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14444.946593750003,"end":14449.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14450.042843750001,"end":14459.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14459.99909375,"end":14460.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14460.960968750001,"end":14464.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14465.939093750003,"end":14467.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14468.33534375,"end":14469.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14469.80346875,"end":14519.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14519.88846875,"end":14520.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14521.305968750003,"end":14523.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14524.22534375,"end":14544.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14545.251593750003,"end":14553.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14553.402218750001,"end":14555.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14556.321593750003,"end":14559.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14559.91596875,"end":14560.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14561.282843750003,"end":14564.657843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14565.315968750001,"end":14570.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14570.985968750003,"end":14579.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14580.267218750003,"end":14592.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14593.109093750001,"end":14612.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14611.890968750002,"end":14612.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14612.97096875,"end":14621.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14613.81471875,"end":14614.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14622.31971875,"end":14627.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14627.618468750003,"end":14640.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14640.08909375,"end":14649.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14640.308468750001,"end":14640.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14647.125968750002,"end":14647.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14647.969718750002,"end":14648.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14648.712218750003,"end":14648.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14649.555968750003,"end":14653.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14653.99409375,"end":14657.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14657.80784375,"end":14668.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14661.419093750003,"end":14662.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14669.114093750002,"end":14673.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14674.26096875,"end":14678.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14678.26034375,"end":14683.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14683.69409375,"end":14700.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14700.855968750002,"end":14704.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14701.024718750003,"end":14702.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14703.269093750001,"end":14703.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14704.281593750002,"end":14708.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14709.37784375,"end":14714.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14715.047843750002,"end":14717.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14717.562218750001,"end":14722.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14722.23659375,"end":14750.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14748.629093750002,"end":14749.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14750.097218750001,"end":14758.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14758.484093750001,"end":14777.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14777.316593750002,"end":14779.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14777.805968750003,"end":14778.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14778.46409375,"end":14780.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14779.797218750002,"end":14782.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14781.552218750003,"end":14782.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14782.952843750001,"end":14785.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14784.99471875,"end":14790.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14789.68596875,"end":14791.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14790.934718750003,"end":14792.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14796.53721875,"end":14799.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14801.49846875,"end":14803.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14810.20596875,"end":14811.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14811.758468750002,"end":14812.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14813.142218750003,"end":14814.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14814.390968750002,"end":14815.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14815.352843750003,"end":14815.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14816.31471875,"end":14816.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14816.331593750001,"end":14818.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14823.317843750003,"end":14823.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14823.33471875,"end":14823.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14824.54971875,"end":14825.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14826.65909375,"end":14827.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14827.890968750002,"end":14828.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14829.156593750002,"end":14830.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14831.417843750001,"end":14834.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14834.87721875,"end":14836.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14836.497218750003,"end":14837.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14838.285968750002,"end":14838.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14839.93971875,"end":14840.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14840.749718750001,"end":14841.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14841.77909375,"end":14842.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14844.47909375,"end":14845.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14846.21721875,"end":14847.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14846.31846875,"end":14846.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14847.01034375,"end":14849.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14849.11971875,"end":14852.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14852.832218750002,"end":14857.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14858.55284375,"end":14861.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14861.03346875,"end":14862.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14863.598468750002,"end":14869.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14869.977218750002,"end":14870.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14870.027843750002,"end":14870.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14870.972843750002,"end":14871.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14871.023468750001,"end":14873.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14873.976593750001,"end":14874.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14874.027218750001,"end":14874.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14874.364718750003,"end":14874.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14874.38159375,"end":14887.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14887.83096875,"end":14888.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14888.97846875,"end":14896.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14896.032218750002,"end":14896.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14896.875968750002,"end":14896.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14896.89284375,"end":14901.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14902.140968750002,"end":14907.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14907.405968750001,"end":14907.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14907.777218750001,"end":14907.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14907.96284375,"end":14916.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14917.29471875,"end":14918.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14918.03721875,"end":14918.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14918.796593750001,"end":14918.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14920.821593750003,"end":14920.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14920.973468750002,"end":14921.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14921.024093750002,"end":14922.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14923.859093750001,"end":14925.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14926.10346875,"end":14931.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14932.094093750002,"end":14938.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14938.40534375,"end":14949.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14950.065968750001,"end":14952.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14952.27659375,"end":14966.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14958.469718750002,"end":14959.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14964.02159375,"end":14969.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14967.548468750003,"end":14967.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14969.539718750002,"end":14975.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14974.230968750002,"end":14974.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14976.10409375,"end":14979.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14980.356593750003,"end":14987.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14987.528468750003,"end":14989.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14989.739093750002,"end":14995.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14995.915343750003,"end":15010.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15010.84971875,"end":15042.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15043.18221875,"end":15046.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15046.624718750001,"end":15058.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15058.89284375,"end":15062.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15063.58409375,"end":15092.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15091.191593750002,"end":15095.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15095.933468750001,"end":15104.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15104.691593750002,"end":15110.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15111.289718750002,"end":15120.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15120.773468750001,"end":15123.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15123.43971875,"end":15128.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15128.92409375,"end":15130.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15130.898468750001,"end":15162.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15159.83909375,"end":15160.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15160.21034375,"end":15160.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15162.690968750001,"end":15162.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15162.72471875,"end":15169.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15169.96409375,"end":15210.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15210.02534375,"end":15216.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15216.977843750003,"end":15293.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15293.894093750001,"end":15303.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15303.023468750001,"end":15308.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15308.96346875,"end":15309.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15309.891593750002,"end":15309.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15309.90846875,"end":15315.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15317.24909375,"end":15323.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15323.03721875,"end":15323.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15323.965343750002,"end":15368.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15368.02596875,"end":15369.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15369.747218750003,"end":15369.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15369.76409375,"end":15372.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15372.71721875,"end":15375.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15375.974093750003,"end":15376.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15376.24409375,"end":15376.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15376.51409375,"end":15376.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15376.56471875,"end":15377.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15378.083468750003,"end":15386.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15387.449093750001,"end":15398.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15399.329093750002,"end":15403.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15404.324093750001,"end":15409.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15409.69034375,"end":15419.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15419.29221875,"end":15419.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15421.55346875,"end":15439.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15438.293468750002,"end":15442.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15443.187218750001,"end":15470.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15468.870968750001,"end":15490.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15490.032218750002,"end":15496.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15496.96784375,"end":15524.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15524.997218750003,"end":15529.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15530.312843750002,"end":15533.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15533.164718750002,"end":15537.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15537.67034375,"end":15538.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15539.50971875,"end":15554.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15554.950343750003,"end":15563.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15564.56909375,"end":15569.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15569.513468750003,"end":15570.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15571.52159375,"end":15573.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15574.37346875,"end":15580.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15580.769093750001,"end":15611.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15611.49846875,"end":15617.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15617.97846875,"end":15619.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15619.767218750003,"end":15633.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15633.402218750001,"end":15638.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15638.954093750002,"end":15639.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15639.173468750003,"end":15648.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15649.230968750002,"end":15652.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15663.60846875,"end":15671.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15672.51846875,"end":15674.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15675.285968750002,"end":15677.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15679.065968750001,"end":15686.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15687.58784375,"end":15690.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15690.996593750002,"end":15696.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15697.206593750001,"end":15721.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15722.114093750002,"end":15723.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15724.08846875,"end":15724.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15724.105343750001,"end":15725.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15725.03346875,"end":15726.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15726.265343750001,"end":15858.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15859.847843750002,"end":15861.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15861.974093750003,"end":15863.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15865.382843750001,"end":15867.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15867.99846875,"end":15869.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15870.05721875,"end":15878.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15879.50721875,"end":15879.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15879.794093750003,"end":15880.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15880.03034375,"end":15883.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15891.589718750001,"end":15893.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15894.357218750003,"end":15895.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15901.140968750002,"end":15901.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15901.934093750002,"end":15902.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15903.081593750001,"end":15941.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15942.265343750001,"end":15959.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15960.203468750002,"end":15967.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15967.83096875,"end":15974.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15975.171593750001,"end":15988.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15988.80659375,"end":15990.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15990.848468750002,"end":16019.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16021.442843750003,"end":16026.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16026.977843750003,"end":16029.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16029.559718750003,"end":16033.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16033.52534375,"end":16048.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16048.628468750001,"end":16059.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16059.867218750001,"end":16065.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16065.368468750003,"end":16084.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16085.58471875,"end":16117.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16118.17034375,"end":16119.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16119.97596875,"end":16123.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16124.093468750001,"end":16141.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16141.609718750002,"end":16142.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16142.68971875,"end":16143.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16144.394093750001,"end":16145.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16146.23346875,"end":16147.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16148.140343750001,"end":16154.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16154.755343750003,"end":16163.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16163.800343750001,"end":16166.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16166.972843750002,"end":16174.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16174.161593750003,"end":16176.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16176.996593750002,"end":16204.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16204.33409375,"end":16220.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16220.702843750001,"end":16228.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16229.24159375,"end":16230.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16230.60846875,"end":16265.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16265.94471875,"end":16266.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16266.130343750003,"end":16292.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16293.585968750001,"end":16295.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16296.15096875,"end":16305.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16305.094718750002,"end":16309.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16310.410343750002,"end":16314.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16315.23659375,"end":16317.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16318.223468750002,"end":16322.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16323.083468750003,"end":16399.780343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16400.67471875,"end":16401.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16403.08784375,"end":16407.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16407.272843749997,"end":16408.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16407.96471875,"end":16410.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16408.656593749998,"end":16408.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16410.81659375,"end":16411.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16411.20471875,"end":16412.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16411.33971875,"end":16417.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16412.36909375,"end":16412.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16417.380968750003,"end":16453.341593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16453.375343749998,"end":16471.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16472.15721875,"end":16478.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16480.18971875,"end":16496.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16496.96346875,"end":16519.795343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16519.289093749998,"end":16546.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16546.54221875,"end":16551.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16551.942218750002,"end":16615.679093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16615.71284375,"end":16617.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16617.83909375,"end":16619.374718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16619.64471875,"end":16620.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16627.96409375,"end":16640.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16645.80096875,"end":16648.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16648.028468750003,"end":16657.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16655.942843750003,"end":16656.077843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16656.077843749998,"end":16656.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16656.12846875,"end":16656.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16668.480968750002,"end":16670.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16671.130343750003,"end":16672.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16677.897218750004,"end":16678.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16678.656593749998,"end":16679.584718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16680.14159375,"end":16701.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16702.41659375,"end":16715.241593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16718.14409375,"end":16722.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16722.717218750004,"end":16729.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16727.442218750002,"end":16727.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16729.29846875,"end":16732.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16732.217843749997,"end":16736.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16733.71971875,"end":16734.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16736.335343749997,"end":16740.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16740.250343749998,"end":16741.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16741.97159375,"end":16742.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16742.69721875,"end":16745.093468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16744.637843750003,"end":16744.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16744.68846875,"end":16792.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16759.724093750003,"end":16760.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16779.012218750002,"end":16779.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16793.372843750003,"end":16794.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16794.216593750003,"end":16794.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16794.48659375,"end":16795.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16796.15721875,"end":16796.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16796.19096875,"end":16818.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16818.33096875,"end":16818.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16819.140968749998,"end":16824.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16826.279093750003,"end":16835.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16833.18096875,"end":16834.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16835.00346875,"end":16838.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16839.08721875,"end":16870.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16872.51659375,"end":16895.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16881.325343750003,"end":16881.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16896.15846875,"end":16899.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16899.97221875,"end":16903.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16903.718468749998,"end":16905.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16905.929093749997,"end":16907.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16908.51096875,"end":16909.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16909.74284375,"end":16910.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16911.26159375,"end":16962.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16914.11346875,"end":16916.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16916.32409375,"end":16916.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16917.65721875,"end":16917.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16917.97784375,"end":16919.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16962.224093750003,"end":16962.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16962.51096875,"end":17005.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17007.803468750004,"end":17035.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17035.022843749997,"end":17036.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17036.94659375,"end":17053.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17037.08159375,"end":17038.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17048.927843750003,"end":17049.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17050.311593749997,"end":17050.935968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17053.973468750002,"end":17056.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17056.504718750002,"end":17059.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17068.047218749998,"end":17068.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17068.992218749998,"end":17076.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":17081.715968750003,"end":17082.272843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17082.42471875,"end":17118.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17121.203468749998,"end":17122.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17131.14284375,"end":17131.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17132.239718750003,"end":17143.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17140.54221875,"end":17141.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17143.47846875,"end":17163.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17163.390968749998,"end":17164.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17163.998468750004,"end":17166.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17165.770343750002,"end":17187.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17177.093468749998,"end":17177.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17187.23534375,"end":17207.468468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17207.670968749997,"end":17208.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17208.98721875,"end":17220.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17220.951593750004,"end":17226.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17227.12784375,"end":17234.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17232.59534375,"end":17232.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17232.69659375,"end":17232.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17234.70471875,"end":17236.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17235.295343750004,"end":17235.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17236.84784375,"end":17237.219093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17236.881593750004,"end":17238.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17238.062843749998,"end":17238.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17238.366593749997,"end":17238.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17238.53534375,"end":17238.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17238.585968749998,"end":17238.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17238.60284375,"end":17239.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17238.788468749997,"end":17239.007843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17239.514093750004,"end":17255.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17242.889093750004,"end":17243.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17252.254718750002,"end":17252.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17252.693468750003,"end":17252.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17256.87846875,"end":17288.249093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17288.249093749997,"end":17302.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17293.919093750003,"end":17293.935968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17298.154718750004,"end":17298.694718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17302.64346875,"end":17336.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17310.01784375,"end":17310.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17317.10534375,"end":17317.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17321.39159375,"end":17321.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17322.75846875,"end":17325.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17330.639093750004,"end":17330.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17330.655968749998,"end":17331.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17336.17409375,"end":17412.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17414.912843750004,"end":17440.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17440.529093750003,"end":17454.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17441.052218750003,"end":17441.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17454.569093750004,"end":17464.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17465.014718749997,"end":17469.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17469.655343749997,"end":17472.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17477.92409375,"end":17479.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17479.62846875,"end":17480.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17481.366593749997,"end":17483.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17487.64409375,"end":17552.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17552.27534375,"end":17571.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17575.36034375,"end":17583.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17583.81471875,"end":17585.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17585.569718749997,"end":17590.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17590.96971875,"end":17591.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17591.138468750003,"end":17591.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17591.22284375,"end":17622.795968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17623.15034375,"end":17644.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17644.716593750003,"end":17655.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17655.97221875,"end":17664.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17664.679718749998,"end":17665.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17665.43909375,"end":17665.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17666.029718750004,"end":17670.366593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17670.552218750003,"end":17680.491593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17680.913468749997,"end":17689.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17689.890968749998,"end":17691.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17691.679718749998,"end":17750.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17750.910968750002,"end":17779.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17779.24409375,"end":17823.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17790.73596875,"end":17792.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17792.76096875,"end":17793.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17821.296593749998,"end":17821.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17822.460968749998,"end":17835.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17824.48596875,"end":17825.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17825.34659375,"end":17825.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17825.397218750004,"end":17825.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17834.64471875,"end":17837.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17837.715968750003,"end":17839.639718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17837.834093750003,"end":17838.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17838.20534375,"end":17840.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17840.73659375,"end":17849.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17849.68034375,"end":17849.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17849.91659375,"end":17856.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17856.295343750004,"end":17866.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17857.72971875,"end":17857.780343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17865.18846875,"end":17867.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17867.770343750002,"end":17867.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17867.871593750002,"end":17867.922218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17867.922218749998,"end":17869.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17867.95596875,"end":17889.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17875.21221875,"end":17875.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17889.960968749998,"end":17896.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17896.896593750003,"end":17900.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17900.98034375,"end":17902.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17904.23721875,"end":17904.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17906.717843749997,"end":17907.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17907.578468749998,"end":17910.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17917.889093750004,"end":17919.272843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17919.812843749998,"end":17920.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17920.45409375,"end":17921.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17921.29784375,"end":17921.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17926.107218750003,"end":17926.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17926.664093749998,"end":17940.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17940.990968750004,"end":17984.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17985.32159375,"end":17991.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17993.725343750004,"end":17994.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17994.653468750003,"end":17996.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17996.10471875,"end":17997.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17997.91034375,"end":17998.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17999.513468750003,"end":18000.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18000.62721875,"end":18021.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18022.750343749998,"end":18023.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18024.04971875,"end":18024.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18025.230968750002,"end":18069.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18071.789093749998,"end":18072.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18073.037843750004,"end":18082.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18073.07159375,"end":18073.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18082.859093749998,"end":18083.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":18084.59721875,"end":18084.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18084.614093750002,"end":18087.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18085.12034375,"end":18088.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18088.46159375,"end":18088.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18088.545968749997,"end":18091.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18092.106593750003,"end":18112.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18111.850343750004,"end":18119.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18114.31409375,"end":18114.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18118.920968749997,"end":18120.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18119.17409375,"end":18121.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18121.72221875,"end":18140.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18140.554718749998,"end":18153.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18153.210968749998,"end":18159.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18159.842843749997,"end":18170.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18171.46971875,"end":18224.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18224.794718750003,"end":18225.132218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18225.250343749998,"end":18227.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18228.35534375,"end":18234.514718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18233.249093749997,"end":18249.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18239.661593750003,"end":18240.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18240.842843749997,"end":18241.264718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18249.75284375,"end":18251.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18250.71471875,"end":18259.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18256.772843749997,"end":18256.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18258.59534375,"end":18259.405343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18259.74284375,"end":18273.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18261.97034375,"end":18262.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18273.090968750003,"end":18273.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18273.25971875,"end":18274.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18275.335343749997,"end":18281.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18281.039093749998,"end":18289.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18289.71284375,"end":18293.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18297.08721875,"end":18298.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18299.247218750003,"end":18301.170968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18304.39409375,"end":18318.990968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18316.91534375,"end":18317.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18319.277843750002,"end":18322.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18322.889093750004,"end":18342.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18341.73846875,"end":18341.789093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18342.936593749997,"end":18366.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18366.61221875,"end":18371.084093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18371.590343750002,"end":18373.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18373.817843750003,"end":18374.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18375.420968749997,"end":18379.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18380.51721875,"end":18381.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18381.934718750003,"end":18388.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18388.279718750004,"end":18393.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18393.40971875,"end":18416.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18416.05596875,"end":18427.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18427.96971875,"end":18434.061593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18434.31471875,"end":18438.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18439.630343750003,"end":18441.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18442.195343749998,"end":18445.148468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18445.452218749997,"end":18445.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18446.04284375,"end":18451.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18452.23596875,"end":18455.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18455.72909375,"end":18458.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18458.76659375,"end":18460.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18461.669093750003,"end":18467.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18467.87909375,"end":18468.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18468.70596875,"end":18470.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18471.01784375,"end":18473.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18473.02596875,"end":18483.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18483.97784375,"end":18487.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18487.97721875,"end":18492.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18492.364718750003,"end":18513.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18513.458468750003,"end":18513.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18513.779093750003,"end":18535.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18536.239718750003,"end":18555.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18556.371593750002,"end":18558.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18559.324718750002,"end":18560.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18561.366593749997,"end":18570.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18570.968468749998,"end":18571.592843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18571.20471875,"end":18571.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18571.592843749997,"end":18571.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18571.62659375,"end":18576.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18571.64346875,"end":18571.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18576.57096875,"end":18583.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18582.49409375,"end":18598.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18597.24284375,"end":18597.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18598.96409375,"end":18622.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18599.92596875,"end":18600.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18623.41596875,"end":18629.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18630.06471875,"end":18632.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18632.747843750003,"end":18645.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18644.695343749998,"end":18660.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18660.96284375,"end":18662.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18662.937218749998,"end":18675.171593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18673.062218749998,"end":18675.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18675.72846875,"end":18678.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18678.49596875,"end":18678.749093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18678.749093749997,"end":18683.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18683.87909375,"end":18696.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18697.514093750004,"end":18700.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18701.76659375,"end":18706.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18706.812218749998,"end":18709.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18718.74284375,"end":18722.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18722.320343749998,"end":18724.328468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":18724.328468749998,"end":18724.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18724.54784375,"end":18724.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":18724.86846875,"end":18724.952843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18724.952843749998,"end":18859.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18857.99534375,"end":18875.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18874.262843750003,"end":18883.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18879.865343750003,"end":18880.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18880.65846875,"end":18884.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18883.459718750004,"end":18883.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18884.624093750004,"end":18886.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18886.88534375,"end":18895.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18895.137218750002,"end":18895.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18895.32284375,"end":19024.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18895.356593750003,"end":18895.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19024.973468750002,"end":19040.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19038.912218750003,"end":19049.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19049.982218750003,"end":19058.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19059.364718750003,"end":19066.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19063.53284375,"end":19064.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19064.342843750004,"end":19065.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19066.09784375,"end":19066.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19067.00909375,"end":19070.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19070.890343749998,"end":19071.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19071.531593749998,"end":19077.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19076.695343749998,"end":19101.889718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19102.15971875,"end":19108.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19109.33159375,"end":19109.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19109.348468750002,"end":19109.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19109.449718750002,"end":19110.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19110.968468749998,"end":19114.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19114.630343750003,"end":19119.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19120.435343750003,"end":19128.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19128.974093750003,"end":19133.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19133.02409375,"end":19158.420968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":19191.715343750002,"end":19192.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":19223.76096875,"end":19224.132218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":19255.51971875,"end":19255.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":19342.93221875,"end":19343.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23203.577843749998,"end":23212.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23212.97721875,"end":23222.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23224.047218749998,"end":23227.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23227.928468750004,"end":23232.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23233.615343750003,"end":23234.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23242.76159375,"end":23243.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23244.41534375,"end":23246.929718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23247.098468750002,"end":23253.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23253.679718749998,"end":23254.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23255.114093750002,"end":23256.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23257.20659375,"end":23263.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23264.429093750005,"end":23266.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23267.33159375,"end":23269.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23270.099093750003,"end":23273.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23276.123468750004,"end":23280.460343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23280.966593750003,"end":23284.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23284.18971875,"end":23285.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23285.944718750005,"end":23292.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23292.255968750003,"end":23302.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23292.272843750005,"end":23292.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23302.97159375,"end":23311.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23311.037843750004,"end":23313.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23314.98659375,"end":23315.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23315.155343750004,"end":23315.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23315.374718749998,"end":23315.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23315.965343750002,"end":23316.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23317.973468750002,"end":23318.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23318.59784375,"end":23321.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23318.631593750004,"end":23320.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23321.348468750002,"end":23322.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23322.59721875,"end":23322.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23322.66471875,"end":23324.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23324.723468750002,"end":23324.757218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23325.280343750004,"end":23325.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23325.297218749998,"end":23326.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23327.811593750004,"end":23370.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23370.218468749998,"end":23377.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23377.32284375,"end":23377.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23377.33971875,"end":23377.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23377.356593750003,"end":23384.764718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23385.00096875,"end":23392.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23393.387843750003,"end":23394.788468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":23394.788468750005,"end":23394.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23395.615343750003,"end":23395.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":23395.96971875,"end":23396.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":23396.62784375,"end":23452.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":23452.349093750003,"end":23453.327843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":23454.475343750004,"end":23473.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":23474.100968750005,"end":23508.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23508.96471875,"end":23515.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23516.777843750002,"end":23516.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23516.794718750003,"end":23519.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23519.57909375,"end":23557.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23557.34534375,"end":23575.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23575.992218749998,"end":23576.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23577.20721875,"end":23593.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23593.677218750003,"end":23648.858468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23649.465968750003,"end":23653.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23653.97159375,"end":23659.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":23656.30034375,"end":23656.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23659.97909375,"end":23720.054093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23721.23534375,"end":23721.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23722.53471875,"end":23722.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23722.568468750003,"end":23731.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23735.359718749998,"end":23735.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23735.68034375,"end":23735.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23736.01784375,"end":23736.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23736.152843750002,"end":23736.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23736.96284375,"end":23737.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23737.030343750004,"end":23737.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23737.975343750004,"end":23738.194718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23738.63346875,"end":23747.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23748.13409375,"end":23815.617218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23815.802843750003,"end":23816.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23816.967218750004,"end":23826.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23826.029093750003,"end":23829.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23829.623468750004,"end":23832.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23833.859093749998,"end":23834.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23834.702843749998,"end":23834.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23834.97284375,"end":23885.749718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23886.12096875,"end":23887.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23888.061593750004,"end":23900.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23900.02596875,"end":23900.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23902.287218750003,"end":23905.358468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23905.679093750005,"end":23906.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23906.79284375,"end":23908.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23909.64471875,"end":23910.319718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23911.652843750002,"end":23911.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23912.732843750004,"end":23913.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23916.56346875,"end":23936.054093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23937.741593750005,"end":23941.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23941.87596875,"end":23943.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23944.10346875,"end":23946.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23946.567218750002,"end":23956.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23957.31659375,"end":24004.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24004.02659375,"end":24004.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24004.195343749998,"end":24004.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24004.43159375,"end":24014.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24015.130343750003,"end":24020.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24021.374093750004,"end":24021.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24024.546593749998,"end":24041.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24041.55659375,"end":24080.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24081.51659375,"end":24083.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24083.32221875,"end":24106.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24106.035968750002,"end":24106.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24112.482218750003,"end":24114.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24119.687843749998,"end":24121.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24122.13471875,"end":24123.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24131.264093750004,"end":24132.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24135.465968750003,"end":24145.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24146.755343750003,"end":24147.194093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24148.29096875,"end":24172.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24172.96221875,"end":24173.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24173.90721875,"end":24174.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24174.02534375,"end":24176.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24176.624093750004,"end":24179.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24179.22284375,"end":24186.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24181.585343750005,"end":24183.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24185.73659375,"end":24194.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24194.81534375,"end":24195.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24195.203468749998,"end":24198.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24195.692843750003,"end":24196.350968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24197.75159375,"end":24197.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24197.802218750003,"end":24198.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24198.038468750005,"end":24231.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24232.46346875,"end":24240.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24241.474718750003,"end":24242.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24242.841593750003,"end":24290.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24291.239093750002,"end":24307.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24293.567843750003,"end":24294.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24295.592843750004,"end":24296.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24296.48721875,"end":24296.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24307.692218750002,"end":24307.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24307.709093750003,"end":24308.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24308.06346875,"end":24346.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24346.605968750002,"end":24350.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24350.554718749998,"end":24361.844093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24362.60346875,"end":24368.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24369.539093749998,"end":24370.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24370.60221875,"end":24370.686593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24371.209718750004,"end":24371.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24371.412218750003,"end":24371.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24371.44596875,"end":24371.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24371.614718750003,"end":24373.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24373.97721875,"end":24406.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24400.36971875,"end":24400.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24406.36034375,"end":24442.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24423.79221875,"end":24424.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24431.622218750003,"end":24431.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24431.79096875,"end":24431.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24431.89221875,"end":24432.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24441.764093750004,"end":24442.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24442.96221875,"end":24471.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24471.936593750004,"end":24479.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24479.56409375,"end":24479.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24481.420343750004,"end":24481.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24481.45409375,"end":24482.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24482.669093750003,"end":24482.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24483.647843750005,"end":24483.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24484.710968749998,"end":24484.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24484.96409375,"end":24497.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24497.029718750004,"end":24500.927843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24504.960968749998,"end":24505.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24505.652843750002,"end":24506.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24506.969093749998,"end":24507.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24507.54284375,"end":24507.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24507.559718750003,"end":24507.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24508.825343750003,"end":24509.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24509.027843750002,"end":24513.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24513.803468750004,"end":24515.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24516.115343750003,"end":24516.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24517.296593749998,"end":24518.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24518.039093749998,"end":24523.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24524.29971875,"end":24524.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24524.974718750003,"end":24525.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24525.312218749998,"end":24527.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24529.68284375,"end":24530.155343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24530.155343750004,"end":24530.577218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24530.577218750004,"end":24531.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24531.03284375,"end":24531.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24531.184718750003,"end":24531.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24531.201593750004,"end":24531.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24532.43346875,"end":24532.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24533.86784375,"end":24534.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24534.61034375,"end":24536.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24537.04034375,"end":24537.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24538.22159375,"end":24554.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24555.569093750004,"end":24583.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24583.02471875,"end":24587.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24589.015343749998,"end":24589.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24589.842218750004,"end":24591.327218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24591.46221875,"end":24593.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24594.11159375,"end":24594.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24594.803468750004,"end":24598.077218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24598.937843749998,"end":24602.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24602.43096875,"end":24602.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24602.44784375,"end":24603.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24602.481593750003,"end":24602.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24602.515343749998,"end":24603.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24603.426593750002,"end":24603.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24603.426593750002,"end":24603.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24603.966593750003,"end":24604.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24604.03409375,"end":24604.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24604.96221875,"end":24605.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24605.029718750004,"end":24614.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":24614.90159375,"end":24615.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24616.47096875,"end":24617.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24617.97284375,"end":24621.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24621.76971875,"end":24621.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24622.967843750004,"end":24623.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24626.79846875,"end":24630.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24630.460343750005,"end":24631.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24641.125343749998,"end":24641.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24641.58096875,"end":24641.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24641.76659375,"end":24641.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24641.969093749998,"end":24642.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24642.559718750003,"end":24642.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24642.82971875,"end":24644.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24644.770343750002,"end":24645.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24645.07409375,"end":24646.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24645.68159375,"end":24645.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24646.052843750003,"end":24646.491593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24647.04846875,"end":24648.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24649.242218749998,"end":24650.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":24651.79034375,"end":24653.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":24653.93346875,"end":24654.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24654.13596875,"end":24654.507218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24654.96284375,"end":24655.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":24655.030343750004,"end":24655.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24655.570343749998,"end":24655.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":24656.66721875,"end":24658.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":24660.97034375,"end":24661.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24661.39221875,"end":24661.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":24661.40909375,"end":24661.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24661.459718750004,"end":24663.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":24661.62846875,"end":24663.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24664.37909375,"end":24665.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24665.965343750002,"end":24667.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24670.217843750004,"end":24671.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24670.80846875,"end":24671.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24674.68971875,"end":24677.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24675.381593750004,"end":24676.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24679.11096875,"end":24682.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24679.583468750003,"end":24679.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24679.63409375,"end":24679.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24679.85346875,"end":24679.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24679.920968750004,"end":24682.38471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":38.531,"end":38.612,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":701.263,"end":703.589,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":906.766,"end":906.947,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":1686.597,"end":1712.978,"text":"大家早安立法院第十一屆第五會期教育及文化委員會第四次全體委員會議會議開始出席委員十四人已達法定人數現在開會那本次的會議呢是三次一次會首先我們來進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議的議事錄"},{"start":1715.905,"end":1740.483,"text":"立法院第十一屆第五會期教育及文化委員會第三次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一一五年三月二十五日上午九時至十二時三十五分地點本案期限樓一零一會議室出席委員陳培率委員等十三人列席委員萬美玲委員等十五人列席人員教育部政務次長張料案件率統有關人員主席羅昭吉委員庭委報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定討論事項審查"},{"start":1744.005,"end":1750.835,"text":"委員廖偉祥等18人你具學校衛生法第22條第23條之3條文修正草案案等37案本次"},{"start":1754.792,"end":1774.543,"text":"會議有委員陳培宇等17人提出質詢軍經教育部政務次長張亮萬堅及相關人員及其答覆說明另有委員楊瓊英許新穎提出書面質詢決議一報告及詢問完畢二委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報三對委員提"},{"start":1775.183,"end":1777.185,"text":"請問各位委員 上次會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏的地方好 議事錄確定"},{"start":1795.973,"end":1821.091,"text":"这次会议的议程有两个第一个邀请教育部部长郑英耀列写报告业务概况并被质询第二个部分审查委员吴丽华、塞代、达霍夫扎克等17人拟据教师法第25条条文修正草案等14案首先我们先来介绍在场的委员"},{"start":1822.81,"end":1839.721,"text":"好 第一位委員是羅志強委員 謝謝第二位委員 蔡春秋委員第三位委員 葛如君委員第四位委員 林怡瑾委員"},{"start":1843.226,"end":1861.737,"text":"謝謝各位委員接著我們來介紹與會的官員因為今天是第一次做業務報告所以我們全部都一起並介紹首先來介紹教育部部長鄭英耀政務次長張料萬堅政務次長劉國偉常務次長朱俊彰"},{"start":1872.811,"end":1901.476,"text":"綜合規劃司司長陳素燕高教師廖高賢司長技職司楊玉慧司長中生司梁學正司長國際教育司李玉娟司長詩意司吳小霞司長資訊科技司葉家宏司長"},{"start":1904.401,"end":1918.81,"text":"學生事務特殊教育司許家倩司長秘書處杜國正處長人事處林建章處長政風處邱蒼林處長會計處劉家偉處長統計處田玉霞處長法治處汪康定副處長"},{"start":1932.302,"end":1934.104,"text":"全序部林戴帆专门委员"},{"start":1962.358,"end":1962.698,"text":"好 以上 謝謝"},{"start":1989.52,"end":2007.751,"text":"那我們現在要來做提案說明因為今天我們有安排教師法的第25條那我們這邊就依委員到場的先後順序來安排那第一位我們先請台灣民眾黨黨團的代表蔡春籌委員請主席"},{"start":2019.35,"end":2035.266,"text":"各位同仁大家好依据教师法第25条现行规定教师若因案停聘事后后判恢复复任依法只能补花本薪"},{"start":2036.991,"end":2052.099,"text":"但我們都知道學術研究家級以及地域家級都是屬於教師待遇條例法定家級的項目為教師薪級的一部分"},{"start":2052.779,"end":2059.164,"text":"如果只補花本心等於讓恢復聘任的教師平白承受經濟懲罰非常的不公平因此本席代表台灣民眾黨黨團提出兩項修法第一修正第25條明定"},{"start":2072.113,"end":2093.382,"text":"未受處分而恢復互認的教師除本心外必須一併補發停聘期間的學術研究加級以及地域加級同時增訂過度條款讓目前尚未結案的停聘事件也能夠一體適用不讓教師"},{"start":2099.016,"end":2117.469,"text":"第二 修正第53條 明訂本次修正條文至公佈日實行 跳過等待的一個空窗期即時保障教師權益 落實程序正義 完整保障教師合法的權益"},{"start":2119.51,"end":2146.478,"text":"本席身為退休教師深知教師是百人素人的一個責任跟辛勞要有幸福的教師才會有幸福的學生對於提升學校教育還有學生受教品質教師權益的提議本席都敬表尊重跟支持請各位委員教育部共同支持本案謝謝"},{"start":2148.433,"end":2162.434,"text":"谢谢蔡春筹委员的提案发言那接下来是罗志强委员待会儿依序是葛如君委员林倩琪委员林一锦委员叶源之委员请罗志强委员"},{"start":2166.777,"end":2187.392,"text":"主席大家早安台灣這幾年不只是面臨少子化事實上我們的教育現場也出現了教師荒那承載教育親子溝通跟培育下一世代的重責大任在教師身上事實上我最近就是有開始一一拜訪我選區裡的學校"},{"start":2189.212,"end":2208.248,"text":"每一個校長跟我講的第一件事情都是教師荒那這一次我們來討論有關於教師待遇條例的部分那本席提出的草案就是要回復跟維護我們復聘教師的薪資權益"},{"start":2210.37,"end":2238.453,"text":"教師待遇條例第二條明定教師之待遇分本薪加給跟獎金那薪給是指本薪與加給合計之給予那且於該法中第六條另有明定教師之薪給以月計之並按月給付因此可以得知教師之薪給因為經常性的薪資為待遇的一部分與執行職務之津貼有所差別"},{"start":2239.133,"end":2253.632,"text":"但是現在的教師法25條針對配合接受調查而受暫時停聘的教師調查後未受解聘或停聘處分並回復聘任者代表因案暫停"},{"start":2255.214,"end":2272.572,"text":"停聘的教師並無不適應的情形如果只補發本心 而非經常性的心急那在校園爛樹的情況惡意日益惡化的情況之下那對負職教師來講的話其實是很不公平的"},{"start":2273.072,"end":2293.752,"text":"所以雖然停聘期間教師沒有教學的事實但是並非教師拒絕或怠惰教學的產生的所以責任不應該有教師負擔因此我們認為現行法規顯然有違公平正義希望透過這次修法能夠真正保障教師合理的薪資權益以上 謝謝"},{"start":2296.344,"end":2303.097,"text":"好 謝謝羅志強委員的提案說明接下來有請葛如君委員下一位林倩琪委員"},{"start":2310.356,"end":2326.608,"text":"主席各位在場的立委同仁夜席的官員以及媒體朋友大家早安首先感謝趙偉我們今天安排這個教師法第25條的巡大以及審查那本席過去也是教師那現在呢也持續的希望能夠跟教育界"},{"start":2327.028,"end":2341.839,"text":"有更多的連結本席提出教師法第25條修正案一方面是在處理教師在停聘期間的待遇問題但另外一方面它更關係到我們如何用一個更公平的制度留住願意投入教育現場的人才"},{"start":2342.64,"end":2367.728,"text":"那根据教育部在2025年开学前的统计全国3303所公立国中小一度有高达1429名的代理教师缺儿即使到了8月底仍然还有412名的缺儿没有补齐甚至有学校公开甄选教师超过40次直到开学了还找不到人而且缺儿的问题还不只出现在偏乡连台北"},{"start":2368.348,"end":2386.628,"text":"高雄桃园这些都会区都一样面临招募困难的情况这代表我们的教育体制啊必须要通盘的检讨改善首先要做的就是如何挽留第一线教师的师资还有教育的人才那目前一线教师所感受到的必须要讲"},{"start":2387.088,"end":2415.658,"text":"是越来越不友善的教学环境所有的一线教师不仅承担了高压高风险的工作条件结果在制度上竟然还得不到应有的保障现行的教师待遇条例第二条就明文规定教师待遇是由本薪加给以及奖金所组成同法第四条也明定教师的薪给本来就是本薪加上加给而且应按月给付"},{"start":2416.258,"end":2442.078,"text":"换句话说对于教师来讲加给不是实有实无的奖励而是教师们法定薪资待遇的一部分那现行教师法第25条规定教师如果因为调查而被停聘最后证明没有被解聘没有被终局停聘而回复聘任目前只能补发停聘期间的本薪或者年工薪"},{"start":2442.859,"end":2469.037,"text":"教师待遇条例第19条也是采用相同的做法只补发了本心没有把加急给纳入这就产生一个明显不公平的现象明明最后证明了教师是没有问题的不是可规则的一方却还是要由教师自行承受停聘薪期间的部分薪资的损失这对于学校与教师之间的风险"},{"start":2470.258,"end":2485.747,"text":"還有損失明顯的不平等本席要強調今天有12個不分黨派的提案版本顯見是為教師要來爭取應有的薪資待遇是跨黨派的共識那我們要求的就是如果最後證明教師是被停聘"},{"start":2487.348,"end":2514.709,"text":"证明教师被解聘没有被终局停聘那么制度就应该要完整的去回复这位教师的薪资权益因为一个法治的社会不能让无可规则的人在程序走完以后还要继续为制度的成本买单我想最后本席要再次强调今天审查教师法第25条的修法不是只为了老师个人权益的问题整体来说还是要为了维持整个教育体系的稳定"},{"start":2515.49,"end":2542.384,"text":"今天年輕人為什麼不願意進入教育的現場除了工作的壓力行政負擔很重以外還有一個很重要的原因就這份工作到底有沒有辦法提供給他們人性的制度友善的保障如果一個制度連最基本的待遇回覆都做不到連最基本的符合法律條文的待遇回覆都做不到的話那我們要如何能夠邀請優秀的人才長期投入教職"},{"start":2543.104,"end":2566.919,"text":"我们本来就应该要用更合理的制度让真正愿意教学愿意陪伴孩子成长的教师感受到国家制度真正的友善地方跟他们站在一起让制度也有正义让教师也有尊严让学校也留作助人最后真正受益的还是我们的孩子跟下一代这是本席提出教师法第25条修正草案最重要的原因恳请大家一起支持谢谢"},{"start":2567.719,"end":2574.807,"text":"好 谢谢葛如君委员接下来有请林倩琪委员做提案说明下一位林一锦委员"},{"start":2585.29,"end":2606.128,"text":"主席媒體朋友還有我們輔會同仁大家早安大家好那本席過去在大學擔任專任的教師那麼在中小學的這個教育現場也多所接觸在這個工作上立法院的工作上也有許多的這個教師還有學校反映目前教學的一個狀況"},{"start":2607.609,"end":2634.486,"text":"所以我們在維持整個教育現場的一個穩定的情況下那本席在今天呢針對教師法的第25條來提出修正那主要的目的是在對於現行的制度對於教師停聘期間權益保障不足的這個問題然後回復制度應有的公平性那麼現行的規定呢教師在接受調查而遭停聘的期間呢可能不發給"},{"start":2635.367,"end":2638.289,"text":"还包括学术研究加挤跟职务的加挤"},{"start":2658.885,"end":2685.003,"text":"然後也會進一步來影響考核獎金年終獎金及兼任行政職務的休假等相關的權益那在過程當中可能都沒有辦法被考量進去所以換言之呢即使教師最終沒有受到任何的實體的處分那我們教師仍然必須要自己承擔停聘期間所產生的各項薪資與附隨權益的損失那這樣子的制度安排顯然權益"},{"start":2686.444,"end":2707.909,"text":"在这个平衡的原则下是不服的所以教师在停聘期间没有办法提供劳务不可归咎于教师本人那依民法的一个相关规定在不可归咎于受雇人之情形下人应该保障其报酬请求权因此在确认教师无需受处分并恢复"},{"start":2708.669,"end":2723.044,"text":"聘任之后呢那理应要回复至未停聘前之完整权益的一个状态那本次的修法来明定教师于停聘后经确认未受处分者除了应该要补发本薪以外"},{"start":2724.005,"end":2746.574,"text":"而且要補發加給並恢復考核獎金年終獎金以及相關休假等權益事項使整體的一個勞動條件得以完整回復那麼本案的一個提案呢最主要是針對來回應制度性風險不應該由個人來承擔基本原則所以敬請各位委員來支持本案以上謝謝"},{"start":2747.774,"end":2756.967,"text":"好 谢谢林倩琪委员接下来我们请林一锦委员做提案说明下一位业员职委员林一锦委员请"},{"start":2763.562,"end":2781.644,"text":"謝主席各位同仁我想大家今天感謝教委來安排教師法的修正本席這次提出教師法25條修正草案主要源自於讓很多老師教苦連天的校園爛樹現象"},{"start":2783.746,"end":2797.255,"text":"那從前年解聘辦法修正後在一年間校士會議的投訴案件高達1372件有超過八成的案件有受理那根據調查資料當時已經完成調查的769件當中不成立的案件有382件佔比49.7%"},{"start":2810.183,"end":2834.782,"text":"那達到停解聘的只有3.3%那雖然校士會議的主要用意是要處理不適應老師的停解聘的事宜但卻演變成這個小案大辦的現象那教會部發現這個爛訴現象後有著手修改這個校士會議的相關規定那教師的這個停聘接受調查那事後如果這個"},{"start":2836.583,"end":2860.308,"text":"結果判定責任不歸屬教師那也應該有所謂的冤案補償那因此本席提出這個教師法第25條的修正案就是對於教師停聘是由消滅或調查後未受解聘或終局停聘的處分並回復聘任者除了現行規定補發本席以外也應該要補發家籍"},{"start":2863.129,"end":2877.535,"text":"教師的待遇分為本薪、家籍及獎金家籍又分成職務家籍、學術研究家籍、地域家籍所以如果老師被停聘接受調查結果責任不歸屬老師的時候"},{"start":2880.856,"end":2894.593,"text":"沒有給老師補發這段時間的這個加給那等於就是補發了半薪而已那加上停職是屬於非自願的停職工作所以經調查後如果沒有受不利的處分"},{"start":2896.134,"end":2914.272,"text":"就應該要補發教師原來他應該得到的薪資所以本席認為教育部應該要和老師跟學校的團體充分來討論這個補發的範圍我想最低的限度一定是要把學術研究加緊"},{"start":2915.753,"end":2944.806,"text":"補發給老師因為學術研究佳績是老師教學研究工作本來就有的佳績這屬於固定心思的一部分所以我們逐條討論的時候我就還要再請教育部再來做詳細的評估跟說明那可以做到怎樣的程度當然最大的重點就是務必要讓受到冤屈的老師們得到合理的補償制度以上敬請支持謝謝主席好"},{"start":2945.766,"end":2954.208,"text":"謝謝林益謹委員接下來請葉元芝委員做提案說明最後一位張雅玲委員葉元芝委員請大家都知道現在教室荒非常嚴重不是說代理老師非常難找有的學校的四十幾招五十幾招都找不到代理老師那現在的狀況是正式老師考上了都不報到那所以到底為什麼會面臨這個"},{"start":2979.58,"end":3005.567,"text":"喂 為什麼面臨這個狀況其實有非常多的研究指出就是因為現在老師的教學環境非常不友善第一個老師被迫做非常多跟教學無關的行政工作所以大家一直在呼籲要做行政減量但是依然各部會各個公家機關還是會要求老師做非常多跟教學無關的宣導然後還包括要辦非常多的公文然後做各式各樣的評鑑"},{"start":3006.747,"end":3032.897,"text":"所以讓他們產生了非常大的跟教學無關的壓力第二個就是濫訴的情況之前因為校事會議引爆很大的風波其實大家都有發現校事會議的召開其實很多時候老師最後都是是被不賴的而且並沒有人家指控的這樣可是他卻進入了漫長的調查期大概最長可以調查四個月"},{"start":3033.937,"end":3062.596,"text":"然後最新的一項調查指出親子殿下做的他說現在近六成的教師五年內想要離職更可怕的是呢這些教師呢他超過六成是不支持他的下一代投入老師的行業而且他也不希望學生繼續當老師換言之這個教師的環境現在是處於一種急劇惡化的這個螺旋當中所以希望教育部各方"},{"start":3064.137,"end":3092.803,"text":"擺散讓老師覺得做老師是值得被尊重是有榮譽感的然後還有一項調查指出他說95.8%的老師他即使覺得自己是秉持著教育專業但是還是擔心被誤解被隨便的控訴然後認為校園現在存在一種多做多做少做少錯的氛圍"},{"start":3098.954,"end":3123.007,"text":"其實受害的是學生所以其實真正受害的是學生因為學生們也沒有辦法得到一個好的教學所以這個問題是急需解決的那我們今天所討論的教師法第25條它只是環老師一個最起碼的公道而已"},{"start":3123.487,"end":3144.221,"text":"因為如果這些老師他被隨便投訴投訴之後進入調查區然後中間被停聘最後還他清白其實他在過程當中已經受到很大的煎熬了然後即便是最後恢復他的就是說他沒有這樣的問題要恢復他的聘任可是過程當中他所受的傷害已經難以彌補那如果你還把他"},{"start":3147.283,"end":3169.643,"text":"這段期間應該領的加級把它扣掉的話我覺得是非常非常不公道的所以我們今天這個法律我們今天的修法就是希望能夠把加級一起因為現行狀況之下是只回復本薪和年功薪嘛沒有加級那我們的修法是希望能夠把加級一併回復除了是讓老師得到應有的待遇之外"},{"start":3170.003,"end":3187.849,"text":"更是對老師有一個最起碼的尊重所以呢希望一起來努力然後除了這個之外還希望大家一起共同把老師所面臨的不友善的環境一併把它改善謝謝好謝謝葉園珠委員最後一位有請張雅令委員做提案說明請"},{"start":3194.757,"end":3218.396,"text":"謝謝主席我想大家今天應該都引用了蠻多2026年親子天下的最新的教師幸福感的調查那這一份調查裡面其實的資料非常 蒐集的資料非常的完整那我也希望教育部可以仔細的來看看我們的教師面對了一個怎麼樣艱辛的一份工作因為他們的幸福感只有五成一份只有幸福感五成的工作卻要面臨到非常多的爛訴或者是很多"},{"start":3219.296,"end":3235.944,"text":"管教上面的包含最近大家有看到一些对于老师的一些批评等等的我想这个是我们今天大家应该要一起来关注的事情那今天我特别来讲一下针对于教师法第25条的修正那我认为这几件事情的核心说法的核心就是追求一个公平而已"},{"start":3236.804,"end":3251.978,"text":"我們的制度現在是一個老師如果被停聘但是最後調查結果是沒有問題也沒有被解聘也沒有被終局停聘的時候那他可以回來任教那會補給他這個停聘期間的一個本性可是卻沒有補給他學術佳績"},{"start":3254.88,"end":3269.813,"text":"我認為這樣是非常的不合理的對於許多沒有兼任行政職務的那也沒有在偏遠地區服務的老師來說他的固定薪資就是本薪加上學術加級這不是額外的獎勵這是他日常穩定的收入結果他現在"},{"start":3270.593,"end":3288.042,"text":"調查結果也沒有做錯事情好朋友已經證明了清白我必須說真的是蠻艱辛的得到了清白之後卻只有補給他一半的薪資另外一半直接消失那我認為這就是一個制度上的扣薪而且是對於一個沒有做錯事情的人來扣薪"},{"start":3289.462,"end":3315.338,"text":"那從法律上來說民法第487條也講得非常清楚如果不是受僱人的責任沒有提供勞務也不代表他不能請求報酬老師在停聘期間沒有上課不是他自己造成的他也沒有補上課的義務那為什麼報酬要打折所以這次還是回到我在講的就是我追求的就是一個公平而已不只本心連同學術加級要一併的補發"},{"start":3317.139,"end":3340.004,"text":"我們不能夠讓一個已經證明自己沒有問題的老師還要獨自承受損失謝謝謝謝張雅玲委員那我們所有的提案說明到這邊告一個段落那這一次的會議呢採一併報告綜合詢答現在我們進行報告請教育部鄭英耀部長報告報告時間15分鐘請"},{"start":3349.485,"end":3374.472,"text":"主席各位委員大家早安大家好本人今日應邀列席貴委員會就本部主管教育全國教育青年發展等業務以及委員所提案修正教師法第25條發給教師暫時停聘期間之大意提出報告進行各位委員會議指教以下僅就責要報告11項教育措施以及未來規劃重點相關內容"},{"start":3375.974,"end":3402.236,"text":"備有詳細的一個書面資料另外第12項分析發給教師暫時停聘期間之大疫疫情委員一併指正首先在學權教育方面為提供學權兒童能夠更安幼兒能夠在一個更安全更舒適的一個環境中快樂成長我們在114年補助2955元改善教學設施設備另外也投入了2.2億"},{"start":3403.917,"end":3428.579,"text":"鼓勵幼兒開始喜歡閱讀也添夠適合的圖書其次在充裕幼兒研師之鼓勵教保員在持進修取得幼兒研教師資格持續辦理幼教專班及幼兒研教師學士後教育學問班另外增加9任議員也積極提升教保服務人員的工作條件"},{"start":3429.5,"end":3450.098,"text":"调整公立幼稚园企业禁用教保服务人员之薪资基准每人每月提高3%另外也明定公共化教保服务机构具幼儿园教师资格之教保员其教保会补助比照教师职务加级额度资给此外增加"},{"start":3452.196,"end":3478.752,"text":"評價教保的一個就學機會提供全國約52萬個評價就學機會並為提供育兒家庭臨時支持措施臨時照顧服務目前公立幼兒園延長照顧在114年開辦以來已經達到9成其次在國民教育方面為確保兒少權益及教學品質持續精進校園是建了一個處理會議制度"},{"start":3480.373,"end":3497.774,"text":"建构更健全有效且符合公平正义原则的教师管理体系体制因为展现对教师专业的付出体系教学现场长期累积的工作负荷提高导师职务加值终点会增加行政工作奖金追溯"},{"start":3499.315,"end":3511.648,"text":"從民國14年9月1日起生效此外也持續提供私私公會生的生活支持提高專業成長會及生活津貼其次再充裕"},{"start":3513.305,"end":3536.748,"text":"偏眼地區事實方面我們也開辦偏眼地區學士學校學士或學問班總共有500提供530人修讀為教育注入新的一個人才另外也引導教師導入數位科技以人工智慧的一個應用此外本部也跟運動部持續合作精進學校體育"},{"start":3538.086,"end":3542.957,"text":"教學品質並補助290所高級中等學校以下修建運動"},{"start":3544.676,"end":3571.323,"text":"场地及充实提议器材设备第三在技职教育方面聚焦六大核心战略产业五大信赖产业政策的推动所需要的一个技术人才本部核定离岸风电电动车智慧电网无人机等二十座新兴产业人才培育基地并扩充53所技专校园AI教学设备培育跨校跨领域学生"},{"start":3572.043,"end":3592.325,"text":"具備AI技術因為落實產學連結公益專才實施彈性學制以課程並兼顧學生就業就學需求持續推動產學攜手合作2.014年至少有2萬名技術型高中以上學生參加此外"},{"start":3593.286,"end":3611.518,"text":"為了強化技職學制的一個整合推動技術高中跟科技大學的一個合作3加2新武裝模式也已經有38所科大138所技高合作辦理合訂技術技高"},{"start":3612.549,"end":3625.947,"text":"學生一萬一千四百五十人更試辦計職工會實施培育專班計畫優化專班實作技術培育課程及輔導工會生取得以及以上專業製造專業證照"},{"start":3628.991,"end":3653.74,"text":"是在高等教育方面为延揽重点领域优秀人才及培育国家高阶人才推动弹性薪资协助大学延揽符合校务发展重点领域需求之新晋教师此外为精进国家重点领域顶尖研究及提升高教品质配合国家重点产业领域人才需求鼓励大专校院"},{"start":3655.545,"end":3676.904,"text":"擴增資通訊半導體AI機械科領域相關系統招生名額此外在115跟116前年度也感謝我們所有委員的一個支持通過特別預算200億來協助大學的一個發展國際欄材以及跟企業共賠人才"},{"start":3678.055,"end":3688.362,"text":"此外也補助博士生海外留學每人每年最高一百萬及延攬優秀境外博士生每人每月四萬元"},{"start":3690.558,"end":3712.326,"text":"另外為因應生成式AI帶動產業的一個轉型成立台灣大專校園人工智慧學程聯盟台卡整合全國AI教育資源推動跨校合作教學以學分採認培育具專業素養以競爭力之AI人才此外推動教育平權"},{"start":3715.366,"end":3735.542,"text":"為輔助弱勢及特殊經營學生我們也在2014年起開始事辦大專校園清涵學生當他的一個成績達到前班或者前夕的30%他就可以每個月有獎學金8000元到1萬元的來協助他們在困境中經濟學業第五"},{"start":3736.903,"end":3757.353,"text":"在數位科技方面為營運國際數位學習的一個發展趨勢以及AI的發展對教育造成的一個深遠影響持續引導不同年齡的學生強化數位學習軟硬體資源充實數位內容以及應用深層式AI輔助教學以自主學習並研發新一代AI學習系統"},{"start":3759.502,"end":3778.209,"text":"另外提供教师教学辅导与支持推动入校入班陪伴服务14年累计了787校次的一个参加提升教师数位教学之能推广数位教学之意以及强化科技领域AI素养"},{"start":3779.212,"end":3805.419,"text":"另外也建置教育部學習載具管理系統建構以維護教育大數據資料庫以及培養教育人員資料素養另外推廣高級中等學校新興科技教育共計22所中興學校及123所合作學校辦理2015年開始推動AI實驗方案推動偏遠地區學生數位學習的興趣及自主學習能力"},{"start":3806.22,"end":3825.164,"text":"第六在語言教育方面為厚植多元貧權的本土語言教育辦理台灣語料庫的一個建置計畫建置台灣客語拼音學習網供各界使用另外增進高級中等以下學校學生應用雙語機會補助1320學校辦理雙語生活化的一個計畫此外也"},{"start":3832.369,"end":3858.747,"text":"選擇三所偏鄉學校、四辦住宿學校及雙語創新學校協助其發展全日行的多元學習環境豐富偏鄉學生學習資源其次在國際教育方面為配合國家發展需求這一個鼓勵學生護國外優秀大學攻讀五大信賴產業相關領域的博士學位從今年開始"},{"start":3860.387,"end":3886.215,"text":"考試方式改變先不再用紙筆的測驗直接改採書面審查後面試提高五大信賴產業學門的一個錄取生也錄取生的一個學會跟生活會的一個補助額度持續擴大遭受國際生來台就學及留學就業強化start in Taiwan的宣傳及"},{"start":3888.24,"end":3911.106,"text":"提供僑外生就學獎學金推動新南向產學合作專班設立國際產學人才教育專班畢業後留才就業就業義務提供產業所需人才以一三年一三學年度國際生在七十六所大學"},{"start":3913.334,"end":3917.937,"text":"畢業總共有8294人留下就業升學有4265人這一個留台率高達二分之一以上15年開始"},{"start":3929.025,"end":3950.017,"text":"推動華語教育2030年計畫以深化全球華語教育合作鏈結整合國內華語教育資源透過鏈結國內外華語教育專業人員強化行銷具台灣特色的華語教育把在安心校園方面為維護學生的身心健康及"},{"start":3950.737,"end":3969.962,"text":"全能發展推動促進學生身心健康相關計畫以打造健康安心平等以尊重的友善校園環境充實校園專業輔導人力14年度高中端共治5352名專任輔導老師及專業輔導人員大專校園"},{"start":3976.411,"end":4004.957,"text":"共補助138校488名專任及兼任輔導人員的中等會此外也持續落實性別平等教育推動數位及網路性別暴力防治營造性別友善的一個校園空間另外也積極改善協助改善無障礙校園環境持續建構特殊教育的支持體系"},{"start":4007.386,"end":4031.837,"text":"目標以117年達成特殊教育班師生比國小1比10 國中1比8 高中1比15完善特教助理人員人力並增加1600名月薪制學生助理員提升服務量能九 在終身教育方面為提供民眾終身學習機會及管道從114年開始推動終身學習鍵以及"},{"start":4041.031,"end":4052.862,"text":"中生教育師所管轄五管的一個通行票提供國人依其自身需求至社區大學、樂齡大學或部署社教館體驗社教館所體驗優質學習並進而培養中生學習習慣及行動另外從115年度推動"},{"start":4063.9,"end":4085.469,"text":"三十plus大學示範計畫也就是說將終身學習的一個對象從原本的55歲調整到30歲以上的成人已有60所大學申請鼓勵民眾培養第二專長及社會參與的能力讓不同階段的一個民眾都能回流再學習第十在原住民教育方面"},{"start":4086.601,"end":4115.48,"text":"以建立完整体系深耕民族意识培育族群人才尊重多元共同为方针发布原住民民族教育五年发展计划14年度全国139大专业校以前述设置研资中心更为培育族群所需人才15年提供大专校院11398名外加名额原住民学生另外也在原住民的公会留学从115年"},{"start":4116.582,"end":4116.603,"text":"好"},{"start":4117.791,"end":4146.833,"text":"開始增加到20名另外也攜手跟地方政府與學校合作擴充教育現場所需施施透過工會專班來培育務實調整以及務實調整國小足以施施資格及工會生畢業條件等措施創新足以施施培育制度第十一在青年發展方面為推動青年發展落實總統國家希望工程維護青年權益"},{"start":4148.052,"end":4176.872,"text":"除以以今年115年1月21日公布青年基本法并依据115年青年整合就学就业创业居住公共参与等政策为架构制定完成青年政策白皮书协助青年自我实现促进国家社会永续发展此外扩大青年白艺海外研梦计划14年总共录取"},{"start":4180.209,"end":4199.802,"text":"1463位年輕朋友到80幾個國家去圓夢那麼今年更增加推出圓夢助力方案優先保障原住民偏鄉弱勢學生、經濟弱勢學生及特殊盡力的青年參與權總共有331位青年走向世界"},{"start":4200.723,"end":4229.719,"text":"那最後有關委員提議案的教師法第25條修法內容發給教師暫停暫時停聘期間待遇之本部立場現行教師法第25條規定教師經學校暫時停聘經調查後未受解聘或終極停聘並互聘者依規定發給本心我想有關這一個本心裡邊應該他是包含本縫跟協助研究會那麼"},{"start":4230.379,"end":4251.771,"text":"本部全力積極建請我們委員也能夠支持來做教師法25條的修改以確保教師的權益 以上 謝謝好 謝謝鄭英耀部長其餘提出書面報告的機關代表有沒有口頭補充"},{"start":4254.138,"end":4278.13,"text":"好 沒有齁 那機關代表報告完畢相關的書面資料請各位參閱並列入公報記錄現在我們開始進行詢答那因為登記發言的人數較多而且今天會進行法案的逐條審查所以討論條文的時候呢我們還是可以充分的表達意見所以今天每位出席委員質詢五分鐘"},{"start":4280.131,"end":4306.307,"text":"必要时延长两分钟列席委员咨询时间是四分钟发言登记截止时间是10点30分如果有委员有临时提案请在10点30分前提出处理提案的时候如果提案委员跟联署委员均不在场原例我们不予处理首先请登记第一位罗志强委员咨询请"},{"start":4310.974,"end":4311.715,"text":"主席有請部長請鄭義耀部長謝謝"},{"start":4321.8,"end":4341.878,"text":"部長好那我在這個會期來到教育文化委員會所以我會期一開始就到我的選區的各個學校去拜訪然後看看每個學校目前的教育現場到底的狀況如何需要的那個幫助是什麼"},{"start":4342.839,"end":4366.51,"text":"那我剛剛在提案說明已經說過了我非常印象深刻幾乎每一個校長跟我講的第一件事情他們反映第一件事情是什麼請問部長你知道是什麼事嗎教師聘任對 教師荒每一個校長沒有一個校長沒提到這件事情所以部長你覺得目前教師荒嚴重嗎"},{"start":4369.291,"end":4394.172,"text":"跟委員報告我想當然我們看到了有部分的縣市陳儒委員剛才所提的他不只是在偏鄉離島或者飛山飛勢的學校連都會區也有遇到一些代理代課的老師特別在STEAM或者一些特教的一些類科上他確實是有一定程度的挑戰"},{"start":4395.493,"end":4412.785,"text":"但是我看完教育部的業務報告裡面幾乎沒有提到教師荒的議題只有非常篇幅少的提到教師的家籍所以我跟部長說這就是我今天來這邊我看到一個很大的落差感當我在"},{"start":4413.973,"end":4440.61,"text":"各個學校拜訪每一個學校校長跟我講的第一件事都是教師荒但這個基層的聲音竟然沒有反映到今天我們教育部的業務報告裡面我覺得這一點麻煩部長針對教師荒這件事情能夠請部裡面到底現在怎麼因應這件事給我一個報告好嗎準備一個報告給我可以嗎可以好那我要告訴部長剛剛你已經講過它是全國現象"},{"start":4442.771,"end":4466.381,"text":"顯示教育現場失調人才失之的推力大於拉力尤其其實對台北雙北的衝擊又特別大所以甚至有媒體形容這是教師的脫北潮我想請問部長你知道教師離開都會離開台北造成的缺額有多嚴重嗎"},{"start":4467.421,"end":4494.178,"text":"那根據統計跟媒體報導台北市教師缺額連四年增加114學年度總學缺是2210位高中值732位 國中721位 國小757位那去年的狀況 台北市佔全國缺額也高達34%招不到老師 要招代理老師但找代理老師 剛剛部長也講 其實也很困難"},{"start":4494.997,"end":4514.473,"text":"那从招聘六次七次到放宽到十几二十次甚至也有到四十五次才找到代理老师一招再招不断的放宽变成代理教师里面没有教师证也可能在三到四成我刚刚去拜访学校的教育学生也是这样反映"},{"start":4515.234,"end":4543.85,"text":"找代理教師基本上大學畢業就可以了幾乎跟委員報告委員可不可以我有比較長的時間把這一個來龍去脈跟委員做詳細的一個報告因為執行時間有限沒關係部長你簡要但是有些東西我們可以在另外再談或者事後我可以跟委員做詳細報告簡單來講就是說我們國教署當時為了確保國民教育因為少子化裡邊許多學校大量採用代理老師所以鼓勵"},{"start":4544.95,"end":4570.181,"text":"地方能夠優先聘專任老師從111嫌疑度到114其實我知道你又增加那個正式老師的職權每年增加五百位的專任五千位的專任部長這個其實我在教育現場因為這樣所以產生了一定的我懂了部長不用擔心因為這個其實我在教育現場那些校長也跟我講到這件事情但是它形成另外一個問題就是對台北市衝擊變更大對不對"},{"start":4571.502,"end":4586.22,"text":"因為台北市的物價指數身為各方面所以台北市現在其實他開始給在地的這些中小學老師在攬財留財有更多的一些待遇上的一些加碼我覺得這樣一個策略"},{"start":4587.759,"end":4603.573,"text":"台北市在未來教師的一個延攬應該會有正面的一些感覺所以我覺得不難講到重點就是說以前你看到偏鄉的老師很難找嘛所以偏鄉我們教育部我們國家會給予一些補助的政策嘛對不對但現在其實倒過來"},{"start":4604.674,"end":4631.207,"text":"現在變成是說今天都會區尤其是台北因為生活物價高但薪水拿的都一樣的時候事實上就會造成說今天教師荒最嚴重是發生在都會區尤其是在發生在台北市這點我還是要拜託部長為我的我們台北市請命就是說在所謂的增加這個所謂補貼的一個部分的話我們請教育部也能夠來研擬怎麼樣去幫助紓解台北市的教師荒可以嗎"},{"start":4632.527,"end":4646.152,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心我想國民教育當然是地方前線但是確保教育品質中央跟地方怎麼樣來共同攜手合作讓老師有一個更好的更穩定的一個教學環境更支持力道"},{"start":4646.972,"end":4662.914,"text":"支持性夠的一個環境我想這對我們新世代的教育品質絕對有幫助的我有些想法我再另外跟教育部溝通另外我這邊有接到一些反應就是有關於老師兼教練的問題也麻煩我們部裡頭來研究一下"},{"start":4663.655,"end":4686.009,"text":"那在這個教育歷程裡面運動教育只是很重要的一環嘛不管是培養國手還是學能或全能養成那實際上現在我知道教育部也好我們的運動部都很重視這一塊但是呢有很多老師現在幾乎是燃燒自己在帶校隊帶體育機優或專長的學生這一點狀況我想部長應該知道對不對那怎麼說呢因為"},{"start":4689.471,"end":4706.364,"text":"按照現行規定教師兼任校隊訓練工作他只能用社團老師的名義每週只能減授一到二節課那我現在台北市接到很多陳情的狀況是國中專任教師一週基本授課時數是18節但是兼校隊的訓練老師每週基本授課時數仍然高達16到17節但是這些老師帶學生早晚"},{"start":4715.171,"end":4737.435,"text":"午休甚至假日寒暑假訓練工作都在進行每週實際工作量甚至高達30節課以上那也有老師跟我反映說為了帶校隊帶體育學生學生時間還超過陪自己家裡小孩那我要講就是說我說的這不是體育班是沒有專任教練的學校"},{"start":4737.975,"end":4757.048,"text":"那很多體育老師或是經驗相關經驗的老師帶校隊跟體育相關學生有些老師本身選手出身那這些部分我覺得教育部能不能也給我一個報告就是說怎麼樣來去對他們有一些幫助跟支援確實我們在中小學特別小學"},{"start":4757.648,"end":4783.738,"text":"有許多的這些老師間這個社團 等於說運動團隊的一些教練他們都是非常熱情甚至有的還提供學生的時速我想這一個部分我們都經常會耳聞聽到這樣的優秀熱情的老師我們來給他怎麼樣一個更大的時速我覺得要給實質的幫助啦因為你今天完全靠老師燃燒自己去做其實對老師來講負擔真的是非常大"},{"start":4784.278,"end":4790.764,"text":"所以我們需要教育部來做後盾 以上好 謝謝謝謝羅志強委員 請部長回座接下來有請柯志恩委員謝謝抓位 我們請部長請部長謝謝"},{"start":4808.257,"end":4810.12,"text":"我想很多的家长跟学校其实都有点束索无策"},{"start":4823.277,"end":4849.662,"text":"像之前就有一个11岁的小孩飙车还压车过关哇塞过弯了这个父母亲都不知道该怎么管而且呢现在没有宗措但是常常请假这是校园里面常常发生的一些的状况显然这个学校也是不太有办法来做处理那部长你可以知道从2012年开始有关师生的问题冲突的问题那个时候呢大概每年平均只有300多件"},{"start":4850.862,"end":4867.68,"text":"但2019的时候呢已经到500多件到了2023已经到771件而且这还有很多的黑数所以说呢这个师生关系紧张学生不断地用网路上网去po跟老师进行冲突面对这样的状况部长你有任何的对策吗"},{"start":4869.283,"end":4880.856,"text":"謝謝委員關心青少年一個發展確實在情緒上的一個教育情緒的一個管理人際之間的一個互動溝通我們從去年暑假開始跟委員報告"},{"start":4882.126,"end":4900.053,"text":"國教署我已經要他們開始推動這一個屬性就是培養同理心部長我知道同理心我們從以前就培養到現在你會發現現在的孩子跟老師越來越沒有同學部長因為招委給我們的時間太短今天是夜報應該給我們更多的時間那你看我還是給你看一個數據"},{"start":4900.993,"end":4925.029,"text":"为什么我要拿这个当例子就是目前来说老师感受到整个教学环境让他们倍感挫折你可以看出来当初部长我们都是学教育心理学的我们都施施培育过当初我们培养的学生这个施培出来他们为了要考上教真教解他们花了多好时间然后考上之后欣喜若光然后就到学校去任教这是我们所知道的教育的正常但是你看现在你看这个比率"},{"start":4925.709,"end":4950.973,"text":"目前来说呢新手老师的任教比例越来越低了你知道吗取得教师证跟正式代理的比例大概只有57.4你再看下面这个数字就成为我刚刚所说的当身为一个师资培育的老师我们目前为止大概有23万个是具有教师证的一个资格但是呢投入整个的教职的工作大概只有13万也就是说有三分之一合格老师是不进校园的"},{"start":4951.633,"end":4980.894,"text":"而且任教十年的变化里面呢从70%到60%而且呢这个整个心血投入下降所以你不可否认就是整个的环境真的是让老师觉得倍感挫折这边可以给部长看到吗不同的团体做出不同的这样的比例图但是呢青师生三方面的共同困难校园文化的管理问题缺乏成就感质押疲乏还有缺乏专业制度再加上校士会的整个那个烂数所以说呢"},{"start":4981.314,"end":5006.717,"text":"一些老师就告诉你我不是不爱孩子啊我是这个制度没有办法让我爱下去啊所以你看这个比率当初考上学校包括你自己从师专毕业你那时候是琢磨以当老师为荣结果你看现在你可以想象到目前为止你当教育部长的当下你看看连公费生也宁可赔钱也要离职就表示这个环境已经让他没有办法待下去了所以我们归纳结果是怎么样呢下面一页"},{"start":5007.418,"end":5022.776,"text":"就是这个的结构的问题师资人力不稳校园冲突增加亲事关系简单烂速明白身为部长同样是一个教师专业出来一路过来的你应该很有感吧部长怎么办你不要告诉我怎么同理心不好了"},{"start":5024.363,"end":5043.57,"text":"委員這太重要了你也知道同理心很重要但是你先告訴我老師的問題老師問題怎麼解決我跟委員關係的都一樣我們都非常在意是來怎麼解決那我也有一個數據可能這一個跟委員update一下我們現在近五年拿到教師證的有八成的"},{"start":5045.19,"end":5058.599,"text":"教室這個年輕老師他們還是到中小學教育現場停留多久 三年 停留三年以上的比例多少比例多少 告訴我我要跟委員報告是代理代課呢 還是正式老師"},{"start":5060.467,"end":5078.407,"text":"正式老師或者代理代課的正式老師停留三年以上有多少但是我想我同意委員有許多的現象我們怎麼樣提供更友善的校園環境怎麼友善部長怎麼友善我們一直在努力就像委員也支持學生輔導法"},{"start":5079.508,"end":5102.249,"text":"也经过了嘛对吧你不抢还好学生服务法先谈这个问题学生服务法那个彭书长也在我后面我真的要特别问一下你上次告诉我的有关于新的编制准则我们好不容易过去了编制编制准则你告诉我你已经公告了有吗我点进去看112年你还是用旧的法再来做这样的事情"},{"start":5102.91,"end":5108.638,"text":"包委員我們那時候跟您報告的是現行的相關作法都已經到我們的公告的嗎我們的計劃內我們的計劃內你沒有公告嘛你的連結就還是這樣舊的嗎更往下來去看包委員你還跟我講學生護照法"},{"start":5120.332,"end":5147.407,"text":"192位专政人员这个都跟委员报告过不是你告诉我你的网站上面你的新的编制准则你还是照旧法来往下面看更不要想说我们好不容易进去了部长你这个部分里面还包括我们的老师这个很多的老师就特别提到了他们这个已经的人力已经非常的缺乏然后呢也很多老师特别提到了目前来说他们没有办法像一般老师一样可以按节次来去做这样的一个增补"},{"start":5148.067,"end":5167.848,"text":"那这些都是一个很大的问题我们下面的这样的一个部分好 我先回到刚刚我真的还没有讲完所以部长你跟我说我支持学生辅导法是 但是很多的配套你完全没有update跟上来所以根据刚刚我们所提到那么多的教师的觉得校园不友善的问题你真正的对策到底在哪里"},{"start":5169.489,"end":5187.521,"text":"對策在哪裡嗎 根據這個我想譬如說施施的不穩定我們看到了STEM或者偏鄉離島我們開始增加了一個原住民的專班我們對STEM這個我肯定你能努力但是你這些問題還是沒有不足以我們對偏鄉的代理代課老師他沒有辦法"},{"start":5188.542,"end":5205.055,"text":"因為他對教育是有熱忱的所以我們改變了用線上來上課部長我再跟你加雞同鴨講這個部分我剛才說我肯定你的做法對於偏鄉但是對於線上不是偏鄉的這些老師的人力不穩校園衝突校園爛樹我們也感謝委員的支持我們現在事實上"},{"start":5208.237,"end":5230.439,"text":"所以你都认为你都做好了吗不是我想有一些东西教育这个东西不是一夜之间就能够看到效果我当然知道教育不是一夜之间但是教育的很多的问题我们到目前为止同样讨论的都是这些表示很多的做法目前为止还是没有办法解决这是我所提出来的"},{"start":5230.839,"end":5257.316,"text":"部长因为时间有限我请你把这样的部分给我一份报告来告诉我你针对我所提出的四大项你做的策略到底是什么可以吗因为我们时间没有办法在这个地方对不起给我一分钟的时间我还是要问到这个有关于这个我们上次已经我们的召委在这个地方已经排定了这样子的一个问题但是很显然没有办法解决原因很简单你知道目前为止来说我们往下看"},{"start":5259.497,"end":5285.442,"text":"这是一个学生在我们上次的讨论完之后他亲手写信给我的学生给我写的他就是我把他的名字弄掉啊他是说告诉我们目前他们这些的剥削一直存在然后你们告诉大家查到的这个所谓违反的这个违规没有所以让这些学生觉得非常的愤怒他们写信告诉我剥削一直存在因为呢你们教育部的规定让很多事情合法化"},{"start":5285.882,"end":5303.545,"text":"举例来说他们现在非常痛苦的是421四天实习两天读书一天休息那时候教育部本来非常好的也可以告诉我们就说你有一个公约有一个合约就是说你用赋月薪的方法教育部本来本意很良善"},{"start":5304.286,"end":5332.367,"text":"但是呢因为赋月薪的方法这些很多的地方就是让他一个礼拜可以工作四十小时可是他只有四天可以工作所以要求他们一天工作十小时一天工作十小时而且呢他们工作十小时的时候呢有很多你们当初我们被揪取的新南向国际专班因为你们特别要求特别保护所以呢他们可以收时薪而且每天不能超过八小时"},{"start":5332.907,"end":5351.835,"text":"反而是这些乔生他们每天被要求工作超过一天超过十小时的这样子的血汗所以他们告诉大家他们真的是很累了他们想来这边学习但是呢他们被要求的没有办法所以好像就是一个来这边留学可是被当做劳工来做看待"},{"start":5352.335,"end":5379.766,"text":"那這樣子的一個合法化你怎麼來做這個解決這是存在的事實不要告訴我們你們超乎違法沒有這種事超乎違法就不會有一群學生來這邊控告我想我的心情這樣一個案例的控訴這不是案例喔我的心情跟委員是一樣的我一定會嚴格來查只要查到我事實上跟委員報告我在去年跟32所的技高學校的所有的董事校長"},{"start":5380.686,"end":5408.285,"text":"我直接感谢我们彭署长的邀请在南东我特别举了因为我不希望台湾是一个国学天堂我希望台湾有更多的国际派是以后培养出更多的林北但是你现在的政策我相信这是一个理想因为这个东西来说的话我们现在也开始不定期的对不要预告不预告不定期的去做你不要有事情你才去做我们也去查到了一个即将要"},{"start":5409.105,"end":5438.071,"text":"这一个退场的一个学校就说我要谈的是说许多的东西我们逐步来做我的心情是跟我一样的部长我从2016年当立委到这边所有的部长在那执行台上面都告诉我教育不是一触之间就可以完成我们都逐步来做问到2026了十年了还在逐步来做你会知道让我们所有的老师还有让我们很多的学生都非常的觉得希望教育部能够主动做一些事情我怎么说"},{"start":5438.971,"end":5467.336,"text":"我說如果你們沒有辦法按照法定的規定來辦我會把這個班關掉第二個如果你學校連在地的本國生都沒有認真的把他辦學你們學校我也會把你關掉是所以說我現在已經呈現出這樣的一個狀況421請不要讓這些學生永遠要透過跟立法委員這樣子的告知然後才有辦法發現這些事實我只能告訴你每一次我們做出任何的事情然後你們去查都說查無違法"},{"start":5468.257,"end":5482.699,"text":"這種的狀況真的會讓很多受害的學生我們現在有不定期的我們我的這個專門委員都親自下去現場去看我想這個我們來努力但也許一時間沒有辦法立即改善但是"},{"start":5483.56,"end":5512.554,"text":"我现在最后只是祈求部长你真的也是教育出身的老师的环境越来越恶劣你不能否认有更多更多的老师不愿意投注在这个地方有更多的老师很希望他的热情能够被我们的教育部可以接住然后呢我们有很多的学生在这个过程里面墙外学生也很想来台湾学习不要因为我们的法治我们的一些制度还有我们一些想贪小便宜因为找移工找学工远比找那些所谓的移工来得更"},{"start":5512.834,"end":5541.423,"text":"且胜千我不希望我们的台湾教育变成是如此这个是你跟我共同期望你现在握有权利你应该更知道如何能够来做这样的一个部分留在这里的原因谢谢委员你要主持到这里你就要好好帮我们把这些你的问题把它解决啊不要让我看到我看到我立即办很久是你没看到所以你要常常眼睛睁开去看我现在的眼睛会越来越多了谢谢委员我们期待我们一起来当你的眼线好不好谢谢委员"},{"start":5543.271,"end":5562.258,"text":"好 谢谢柯志恩委员 请部长回座接下来有请罗廷伟委员咨询 请好 谢谢主席 有请部长请部长到咨询台"},{"start":5567.847,"end":5591.946,"text":"委員好 部長好 剛剛柯委員下去以後他講了一句話 你可能沒聽到他說你是一個好人但是呢 我一直要想我們不能夠把所有的事情建立在各個部會首長是好人的一個基礎上而是要把它建立在制度上就像你剛剛說的 別讓我看到你絕對會出力"},{"start":5593.168,"end":5615.603,"text":"但是有多少我們沒有看到這是重點所以不只是增加眼睛我們更希望透過制度透過檢舉透過不要只是找立法委員我們能夠處理多少這樣子的零星案件他已經變成零星變成很多的通案的話我想是制度上有問題不管是剛剛喬生的問題到校園爛樹的問題到現在校園暴力的問題"},{"start":5619.486,"end":5643.992,"text":"前幾天又出了一個所謂的用棍棒敲頭的案件您知道嗎我想這個事情到底要怎麼處理有委員為了這樣子還要求我一定要排公聽會一定要排這個案子要來審他所謂的希望有特殊案例的孩子要轉介到其他的單位來做一個培養那您覺得這樣的說法對嗎"},{"start":5646.189,"end":5668.608,"text":"我想教育的一個難處就是我們很難把某一個事件變成全部大家都一致的處理但是我也同意委員剛才所提我們在很多時候是要建立制度所以校園怎麼樣防止有一個更友善校園而是沒有死角的一個校園讓我們怎麼樣在課間或者放學的時間"},{"start":5670.843,"end":5695.587,"text":"校安人員學校的一個幸福人員能夠或者導師能夠全力的投入到協助學生青少年的一個這一個發展我想這都是我們在努力的我知道我們都努力但是不能夠僅靠愛的教育啊你不能說因為校園暴力多我們來多一點品德教育就這樣子而已不是說品德教育不重要因為他當然會有這樣一個行為絕對不是一日之"},{"start":5696.067,"end":5717.422,"text":"形成了嘛我們先來了解從親師親子教育親師合作到校園的一個友善環境的一個所有的一個努力包含我們國教署在這一個去年就有這個前面我都知道包括你的夜光天使願意來支持我想這個都是不管是事前我們來做一些相關的教育"},{"start":5717.922,"end":5743.33,"text":"事後我們也希望說有一些強力的手段能夠介入這是家長端這是老師端這是其他正常願意認真上課的學生都希望的所以我們還是回歸到今天的主題前言我們談了這麼多但今天我們就教師法25條我想今天的報告寫得很清楚25條我們為什麼今天要來討論你的報告裡面就寫得很清楚引發校園爛樹一綠"},{"start":5744.99,"end":5768.485,"text":"省着教师非自愿停止工作以及现在近年物价大幅成长下尚难充分的维持基本生活跟家庭照顾的所需却有再检讨精进之处这个是你的报告所写的所以我的版本很简单现行条文说的补发其停聘期间全数的本薪"},{"start":5770.092,"end":5791.86,"text":"還有我還多了五項考核獎金年終獎金職務佳績學術佳績地域佳績簡而言之就是四個字權益還原就如同今天的教育報告你們的裡面所到所寫到的爛數疑慮非自願停止以及生活照顧的所需我認為"},{"start":5794.062,"end":5807.782,"text":"應該要補發這五項這五項不是額外的優惠是教師在原聘任的狀態下就應該領取的待遇結構的一部分部長您怎麼回應我的版本"},{"start":5809.171,"end":5835.189,"text":"我感謝委員的一個對老師權益的一個關心但是確實我們學校裡邊不是每一個老師都有兼行政工作也不是每一個老師都有兼導師但是我們怎麼確保他最基本的所謂的薪水每個月那個薪水就是本鳳家學術研究會這應該的我從將近兩年前進來我跟地方在"},{"start":5836.05,"end":5853.108,"text":"老師在座談的時候我聽一聽就是還是同理心將心比心我認為他的薪水應該被保障當他被不實指控這也是我們第一個階段在處理校事會議以後把濫訴匿名投訴的拿掉接著再來支持老師當他有"},{"start":5854.309,"end":5879.514,"text":"受到不當的指控或者誤解的時候回他 回復他金牌不是來自於他 歸咎於他個人的我們本來就應該把整個月的薪水給他所以就像你剛剛講的嘛不是每個人都有行政家級不是每個人都有教師家級所以我所主張的1加5並不是他一定領到滿 領到有啊一定也要看他原本的薪資待遇結構裡面有沒有這一項啊"},{"start":5880.234,"end":5892.643,"text":"所以你只說你的一加一我認為他就已經喪失他原有的權益了嘛建立制度一個完美的一個未來社會的一個想像當然有時候沒有辦法一出"},{"start":5894.336,"end":5917.316,"text":"一次到位你又要說無法一觸即成了但是我這個誰不知道但是我還是希望這件事情還人家清白了就應該要好好的重視他的問題但是我想整個來講社會的一個公正性您剛剛報告寫得很清楚非自願停止工作啊"},{"start":5918.016,"end":5946.891,"text":"證明清白了我們現在就是應該要修法進行補發是學校讓教師暫時不能服刑最合理的就是我覺得不合理因為他的清白他本來就應該領著所有他該有的一些性質概慮結構的時候他是因為學校讓他暫時不能服刑他不是自願不做這件事情啊所以就不應該把沒有服刑的後果全部算在教師頭上啊"},{"start":5947.751,"end":5973.684,"text":"所以我們一直在講還他清白就應該要原有的責任都全部給他我想剛剛已經在談論到這麼多的問題我們教師能力不足校園爛數的問題以及現在我們看到我們要怎麼樣還他們清白之後給他們該有的權益這都是讓第一線的老師願意再回到學校最後的動力所以您在主張一加一的時候我覺得就是沒有在為老師想"},{"start":5974.344,"end":5995.963,"text":"沒有啦跟文報告你也知道我是小學老師出身我非常清楚第一線上我也擔任過兩次的地方的教育局的局長我非常熟悉第一線上老師的各項的一些他們的挑戰所以我也說你是一個好人但我也要告訴你你也知道我是三個孩子的父親是"},{"start":5996.323,"end":6009.49,"text":"站在家長的角度我都願意幫老師講話因為我知道對老師好就是對我們的學生好如果沒有老師我們的孩子的未來就可能會接受更差的教育"},{"start":6012.071,"end":6030.382,"text":"就是溺愛我們有一些老師他事實上你如果錢不應該給老師老師領了他也會覺得心虛我們反而陷他於不義這樣子啦部長再思考看看啦我希望能夠更全面的保障教師權益才符合公平這個我們的想法是一致的所以今天"},{"start":6031.443,"end":6046.182,"text":"喔 昭偉要逐條我也建議昭偉今天現在院會還在施政總質詢是不是再給部長時間再想一下建議逐條能夠緩一緩不要急著我們是1加5不要1加1最後我再問一個問題"},{"start":6048.578,"end":6063.728,"text":"我想接著問學校運動設施補助案向我們部長來請教一下請問部長現在教育跟體育分家了請問你同意運動部在學校運動設施的補助上"},{"start":6064.801,"end":6088.171,"text":"只負責棒球跟足球嗎你同意嗎你覺得這合理嗎他現在的意思是其他的他一概不論任何運動設施喔都要由教育部來負責補助喔跟委員報告因為我並沒有聽到運動部有這樣的說法我現在告訴你了運動部給我的答案就是運動部只負責棒球跟足球場其他"},{"start":6089.111,"end":6116.325,"text":"所有的運動設施全部教育部自己要負責你同意嗎請你回答我我想應該他可能沒有把話講完因為還有一些專項還有一些許多的這些屬於政策上這個在推動的那請問目前你有白紙黑字去了解這些分工的這個部分我想我們那個張料次長他都定期跟運動部這個洪次長都會有一個雙邊的一個溝通協調"},{"start":6118.726,"end":6143.116,"text":"那這個部分我想委員所關心的我們來了解現在運動部要推給你啊那我再幫你爭取權益啊但我希望你應該要了解你目前到底有多困境有學校能夠蓋棒球場跟足球場應該很少九成以上的其他運動設施都要由教育部負責如果你同意這樣子的分工我只能說啊你會很辛苦"},{"start":6144.157,"end":6166.833,"text":"我們現在在爭取很多的考察的時候也遇到這樣的問題你剛剛跟我講的是專班相關的運動設施可能是針對比如說體育班專項競技類的但是就不要跟一般教學的設施一起審查的話我想體育班拉出來他們才有機會可以獲得補助"},{"start":6168.655,"end":6174.389,"text":"現在我們看到這樣的規定我們也希望他可以提出申請但問題是你們不會補助啊"},{"start":6175.31,"end":6202.915,"text":"所以這個問題在分工上你跟運動部我覺得你還要再好好的協商我們這些委員對於現在這樣子的考察遇到狀況我們沒辦法接受那基本上制度上就委員所言則上我們是都有共識的那我想委員剛才所提的也許我們這一個是不是運動部上話沒有把它講清楚我們事後再來了解所以我現在就想了解嘛 操場"},{"start":6203.675,"end":6227.883,"text":"跑道 籃球場 射箭場 羽球場 游泳池 網球場這些誰來補助 講清楚說明白所以部長你可以多久給我一個答案這基本上是由教育部因為體育教學但是如果屬於專項的這個競技型的一些團隊上的一些這個訓練那當然是運動部 我想我們會後再把它弄清楚"},{"start":6228.943,"end":6250.385,"text":"委員說造成委員的困擾兩個禮拜內給我答案好嗎兩個禮拜好可以嗎可以可以上個禮拜四我在教文辦這個考察我去台中教育大學十小看他們輕艇校隊台中教育大學的十小輕艇隊培育出多位國家代表亞運的選手像這樣子的輕艇校隊補助班要找誰"},{"start":6251.246,"end":6273.731,"text":"你知道嗎清庭基本上它是比較戶外的水域的活動應該是跟運動部的關聯性比較大但是如果在個案上來講我們來看怎麼樣來我們現在部長說應該是運動部啦我不怪你但運動部說叫我找你所以我就撐得很納悶今天我會遇到的問題我呼籲所有的委員你們都會遇到"},{"start":6274.625,"end":6291.271,"text":"一起來釐清這件事情最後30秒我要感謝部長願意大力的支持夜光天使延伸到國中目前事辦兩年的成效都非常好我想還是要希望部長繼續能夠支持夜光天使能夠"},{"start":6292.131,"end":6309.48,"text":"事半延伸到國中的夜間的教育政策我們來推動夜光天使3.0脫貧是一條非常漫長辛苦的路但教育無疑是公平也希望有一條公平的路能夠讓新興學子透過自己的努力在教育制度上能夠向上繼續"},{"start":6311.641,"end":6339.289,"text":"來就學能夠有這樣的可能性所以我們要支持就像你剛剛說的雖然對於暴力事件我們沒有辦法很多方法但現在你說的品德教育同理心也好我們都希望夜光天使多一點接觸就來實施這些教育這部分我希望一定要加油一定要支持好嗎一定好謝謝我們現在對偏鄉離島還有非三會式的學校我們大概都有這個前面來支持這個夜光天使拜託你謝謝"},{"start":6340.569,"end":6364.826,"text":"谢谢罗廷伟委员质询部长请回座接下来请林一锦委员质询谢主席也有请郑部长请郑部长委员好"},{"start":6365.797,"end":6389.179,"text":"部長早首先本席還是要跟部長關心一下我們國家教育大業這新一年度的預算那目前在野黨遲遲不審總預算那雖然表面上假裝很在乎所以也想讓什麼新興計畫要先行動之可是根據這個立法院職權行使法第七條"},{"start":6390.38,"end":6405.737,"text":"預算案應該經過三讀程序所以這種所謂的新行動之案根本沒有前例而且除了有急迫性的新興計畫預算我們還有常態性的延續性的計畫預算"},{"start":6407.679,"end":6425.961,"text":"那比去年度多編一些預算那這些預算有可能是因應物價成長或者是要深化既有的政策那現在這筆錢也因為總預算沒省那面臨到不能使用的窘境那預算法第54條是說除了新興資本"},{"start":6427.162,"end":6456.378,"text":"支出及新增計劃外其他的計劃是依以或授權的原定計劃或接上年度執行數核實動之按照教育部提供的資料2026年常態性延續性的計劃預算比上一年度增加了66億元那白話一點來講這筆錢可說是藍白不省總預算可能會被實質砍掉的就是"},{"start":6456.838,"end":6480.391,"text":"看得到吃不到所以要請補充簡單講一下那這新增的66億的金額主要是用在什麼地方那如果像是說電費人事費這些費用可能今年的成本會有一些增加而且還要一定支出那就是無法被壓縮那其他哪些項目會因為這樣而被"},{"start":6483.291,"end":6486.816,"text":"缓减或者减缩它的规模部长"},{"start":6488.182,"end":6513.465,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實我們真的希望預算115的預算能夠趕快升為什麼因為光剛才委員所講的這個新增的預算裡邊我一直覺得對我們從小學到大學有一項無人機的一個學習這一個學習這一個協作然後從無人機的操作到設計到製造到"},{"start":6515.086,"end":6523.29,"text":"以後會影響到一個整個產業就是說我們從小學開始到大學這一個9.3億在未來我們是總共編了60對 將近10億"},{"start":6529.85,"end":6543.337,"text":"總共有將近五十億四年那我會希望說這個真的是非常重要的那當然像其他的它也包含譬如說我們看到有一些大學它事實上有許多歷史建物放在那邊我別人說我覺得很不敢"},{"start":6546.939,"end":6568.998,"text":"我们怎么样给一些钱教育部第一是我们从公益算边来支持大学去做老屋的改建或者一些维护我想这也非常有价值那刚才比如说委员所提到的原来14年已经做的我们现在继续再持续往好的方面再加码比如说像终身教育师里边的"},{"start":6570.238,"end":6591.027,"text":"這個公共圖書館包含地方的Big Maker我們地方圖書館光這一項就增加了將近18億這事實上用來支持地方縣市裡面有自己的縣域更美更現代化的更Fashion的一個圖書館或者鄉鎮的一些鄉鎮型的圖書館上的一個擴充或者一個增建"},{"start":6596.169,"end":6614.248,"text":"那另外呢還有一個在資訊裡邊我們對中小學的數位的學習我想我們AI裡邊有許多的一些基本的設備我們用來支持中小學這裡邊的一些設備的一個添置包含這個用電當然用電補助也有還有像是"},{"start":6615.356,"end":6630.855,"text":"大學裡邊譬如說陽明大學的輻射醫院第二期的擴建計畫那麼也有15.6億這個都是今年新增的以類似這樣的東西他就都沒有辦法做我想我們擔心這個延誤到這一個工程"},{"start":6631.195,"end":6649.592,"text":"特別在醫院裡面其實有很多的時候他服務的是更廣大的社會大眾的一個健康所以我還真心的期待我們委員能夠趕快來審查這一個15年的預算讓教育部能夠走得更快速、更穩健"},{"start":6650.373,"end":6669.678,"text":"所以部長剛剛講很多有列舉很多的項目就這66億到底有哪幾個項目其實是被擋掉的假設沒有省這些都動彈不得都沒有辦法動那我現在是要問說好 那既然狀況是這樣那我們要想到最壞"},{"start":6670.838,"end":6695.491,"text":"說最壞的話就是說那藍白真的就擺爛不省那這樣子的話你怎麼解決怎麼解決有沒有想想一些方法怎麼因應我不期待我不想像說我們預算不省我是一個正向浪漫是樂觀的人我相信他還是會省就是說我只是希望我們都是做福國利民的事是要因為原來良善的一些"},{"start":6696.671,"end":6717.446,"text":"對未來想像社會更進步的想像因為這樣而耽擱了一些時間因為這樣而沒有辦法執行這確實是比較困難當然如果藍白可以來審總預算當然是最好因為你看去年的今年的不審那再來我們下半年度照理要審明年的那明年的呢"},{"start":6718.526,"end":6736.284,"text":"對 所以這個都環環相扣喔所以還是要趕快今年趕快審那明年 趕快這一個也跟在野黨的也能夠大家一起合作這裡就有一位在野黨的要拜託他好 那另外跟部長探討一下就是轉型正義教育的問題喔"},{"start":6737.525,"end":6759.334,"text":"這個行政院在2023年有韓班國家轉型正義教育行動綱領為期四年的這個管考計畫到今年2026年那這個轉型正義的教育隨著很多越來越多的研究啊口述歷史跟藝文的著作它教育的面向越來越多元也更加深入"},{"start":6760.034,"end":6784.561,"text":"比如說本席曾經向衛福部關心過的政治暴力創傷的療癒或者近期推動轉型正義匯報重視的戰後援助民族轉型正義的強化方案等等那在今年的2月26的行政院院會也特別宣示說要責成教育部啟動嚴定第二期的教育行動綱領那基本上這份到2026的行動綱領"},{"start":6788.462,"end":6809.97,"text":"是依據促轉會任務總結報告的各面向去編寫的這些教育議題總綱領裡面也有提到會由教育部來協同各面向的主辦機關來研編國家轉型正義教育行動綱領的實施指引來提供各機關來規劃專屬推動計畫跟訓練課程落實轉型教育"},{"start":6815.692,"end":6838.851,"text":"那这份纲领今天就要到期那很可能就要来开始编写下一个阶段的这个转型正义教育规划所以除了本席刚提到的那两个特定的议题以外那近期掀起很多的历史补课潮那我们看到教育部做了这个补课专区那目前也正逐步在建置这个页面那我想要请教育部长是说"},{"start":6839.571,"end":6867.128,"text":"下一份的綱領會加強辦理哪些教育部認為這四年還沒有落實的部分那另外比如說有可能是機關不配合轉型這個轉型正義的教育消極的配合這個國家的這個轉型教育的政策另外說其他我們還有一些新增什麼樣的內容我們要來深化國家的這個轉型正義教育部長好"},{"start":6870.823,"end":6896.914,"text":"謝謝委員關心轉型正義我想自由從來不是理所當然歷史可以被原諒但是不應該被遺忘那我們也知道有些歷史不是存在課本裡邊那也存在這塊土地的記憶中所以我們最近陳委員所關心的我們在今年年底就會把新的一個四年計畫就把它弄出來那過去呢我們確實在許多的那些"},{"start":6898.034,"end":6925.595,"text":"來自這一塊土地的這些轉型正義我剛才講土地也保留了許多的歷史記憶我們開始鼓勵大學有這個透過USR去大手牽小手結合在地的文史工作者跟在地的相關的NGO團體民間團體去把這樣的一個轉型正義故事地圖開始實地去踏查透過教學透過戶外戶外的一個教育裡面戶外的活動裡面開始去推動"},{"start":6926.235,"end":6944.123,"text":"那另外呢,從今年開始,陳副委員剛才有看到,我們大概每一個月會有一到兩期的短影音,包含每一個月裡面有特定的,來自於因為過去白色恐怖的一個受難或者扼巴,或者來自於譬如說下個月的,欸沒有,今天4月1號我講話是算數的。"},{"start":6947.265,"end":6968.92,"text":"今天事业我今天讲话还是算数的4月7号是言论自由日我们就会有一期这个短影音的言论自由的一个出来那类似这样的一个东西包含实地的比如说我们也开始跟文报告我们的部会已经在"},{"start":6969.841,"end":6995.327,"text":"三月初裡邊我們部務會議一級主管全部到這個景美的人權博物館去開部務會議我們也開始校長老師學生開始陸續去鼓勵參觀這個人權博物館或者是到立島裡邊實際的像我們這個月就我會帶領我們的一級主管分兩梯次到立島裡邊去"},{"start":6996.747,"end":7012.456,"text":"真正的去理解過去在那一個危險的一個時代裡面我們怎麼樣從這裡邊去尋求這一個經驗然後避免要珍惜台灣的一個自由民主得來不易我想這個我們會全面的來做"},{"start":7013.866,"end":7028.764,"text":"真的非常肯定部長對於轉型正義教育的重視那這之所以那麼重要我覺得我們看看其他的國家像德國啦 波蘭你就可以感受到他們認真在做這個教育紮根的努力可是喔"},{"start":7029.525,"end":7054.053,"text":"要做事就要有人所以我還是很懇切的來請求這個部長這方面的專責人力應該要增編因為目前那個做轉型正義教育部這邊只有兩位所以我想說是不是也可以來增編那當然這個請您回去研議看看那可不可以在會後來回覆本席有回應跟委員報告我們確實也因為"},{"start":7054.913,"end":7075.513,"text":"這一個轉型正義裡面的業務量忽然可能這一個部長也這一個非常積極在推動所以我們人手確實有一些不足我們也跟人事總處這邊在積極在希望能夠透過這一個他們能夠獲得支持增加人力好好謝謝那加油啦"},{"start":7076.953,"end":7083.182,"text":"多增加一些人力喔才能把這事情做得更好好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝移籍委員質詢部長請回座接下來請蔡春城委員質詢"},{"start":7102.952,"end":7106.826,"text":"主席 我們請教育部的鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":7113.925,"end":7137.298,"text":"委員好部長好剛剛有很多委員都有提到都非常關心目前校園就是有一些問題譬如說教師荒還有我們的校園的一個氛圍已經非常的不友善包括我們的孩子在協同有五個就有一個很想"},{"start":7139.699,"end":7154.865,"text":"不想上學然後有年紀關係的一個焦慮那在113年的教育部的一個校安通報那個學生的一個自殺率將近兩萬人那如果從106人到現在將近"},{"start":7159.349,"end":7179.331,"text":"成長了12倍這個數字是非常非常的驚人那今天呢我就要替這些焦慮的學生想自殺的學生還有剩下幸福感50分的老師來對我們教育部提出最沉重的一個呼籲"},{"start":7182.494,"end":7192.105,"text":"請問部長在這樣的一個狀況裡面部長你有沒有決心就是明年就能夠把教師的幸福感提升到60%"},{"start":7195.675,"end":7223.314,"text":"我想老師的幸福感當然有主客觀的一些感受但是怎麼樣提供老師讓他能夠更願意留在校園裡邊讓他有覺得培養一起來大家一起來努力培養我們新世代的這個年輕小孩讓他們有一個更美好的未來的一個發展對沒有錯所以校園的部分不好啊我們一直在努力的要怎麼樣努力"},{"start":7224.522,"end":7251.978,"text":"就像剛才委員所關心的我們把校士會議裡面造成老師無謂的壓力這些匿名的投訴我們把它拿掉了我們來調整老師的終點會老師的一些也許大家覺得好像力有未盡但是至少我們看到了一些我們從他的薪資報酬的一些工作上的一些相對的一些帶也做了一些調整"},{"start":7252.918,"end":7270.955,"text":"那我們也開始對偏鄉離島的老師我們開始這一個支持宿舍的整建或者蓋宿舍讓老師能夠有一個更攀穩的那個部長我了解希望這個決心能夠落實那就是在那個"},{"start":7272.076,"end":7275.317,"text":"監察院也有調查出我們的一個輔導的機制輔導人力的不足輔導老師的一個行政負擔過重然後我們的輔導的一個銜接的機制也不流暢所以才會造成這樣的一個狀況這個也就是我們目前為什麼我們會有這麼多的學生不想上學然後壓力很大所以"},{"start":7298.604,"end":7313.289,"text":"然後我們現在也有一個所謂的身心調試架這個身心調試架目前利用的沒有很多那請問各縣市有沒有掌握到這個城鄉的一個使用的統計差異"},{"start":7317.472,"end":7338.283,"text":"就是我想身心調適下確實是最近我們去年開始實施嘛高中生裡面已經有兩萬三千多的一個學生全國大概佔了將近5%將近5%的學生有用到這個身心調適下那後續呢如果這些學生這些學生有這樣的一個狀況學校有沒有做後續的一個輔導就是詳細我是不是請我們署長來補充說明"},{"start":7344.509,"end":7369.103,"text":"謝謝委員 跟委員補充兩點第一點 剛剛來部長所提的那個數據那是經過我們一學年的運作那第二點是這個有沒有要結合輔導機制當時的討論是如果太緊密結合學生會覺得他不過只是想要調適一下卻被拿來增加很多輔導機制他們會有顧慮而不敢申請所以這一點我們會用我們比較專業的輔導方式來協助謝謝"},{"start":7372.104,"end":7399.015,"text":"比較柔性的那最後我們現在明顯的就是說我們也可以講說我們的學校的氣候已經變天了這個是一個危機我們當然當然也是要非常的關心那我們這樣的一個情形壓力學生的壓力老師的壓力那這個危機會影響到我們未來的一個國家的競爭力那"},{"start":7400.275,"end":7423.195,"text":"請問部長那我們又要如何來提升這樣的一個國家競爭力我想當然最基本的因為台灣沒有天然資源我們靠的就是人才所以每一個教育階段把每一個小孩子每一位學生把他教好我想這是最直接的一個提升國家競爭力最直接的一個方式"},{"start":7423.675,"end":7448.367,"text":"那剛剛部長還要講要調薪然後有種種的一些措施但是我要告訴部長不是你調了一千兩千那個植物價值調了一千兩千就能夠改變現在這個氣那個效能氣候不佳的一個狀況我想影響教師的一個工作滿意度影響的因素當然很多有時候他並不是不喜歡"},{"start":7449.508,"end":7474.061,"text":"但是他因為產業有更大的吸引力量包含我們師資的培育機制也改變過去我跟委員的年代是師大張師大高師大他們需要多少老師培養多少老師是公會的但是現在是儲備制所以變成有許多年間的生涯他當然原來他想要當老師生涯有可能改變這個狀況"},{"start":7476.722,"end":7505.014,"text":"我了解 但是現在問題就是老師呢在學校為什麼不快樂就是因為教師的一個尊嚴很低嘛然後呢教育政策呢常常改來改去啊還有就是最嚴重的就是我們學生的素質不好嘛這些都是對老師都是一個壓力然後呢我還要再跟部長就是請教就是有學校校長有跟我那個"},{"start":7505.854,"end":7523.983,"text":"提過在高中的時候早期就是有教官那現在教官已經退出校園了所以在管理學生的這個部分對給學校老師產生行政的一個壓力那當初這些教官要退出校園的時候有沒有做配套"},{"start":7524.403,"end":7548.46,"text":"沒有啊現在的所有的工作都留到給現任的那個老師增加這個壓力增加行政工作那我請教一下現在的那個校長每一次到下學期的時候要請行政人員來擔任行政工作的時候都找不到那這就是一個問題嘛就是給老師很大的一個壓力嘛那我們要如何的來"},{"start":7549.941,"end":7575.017,"text":"退出校園了那如何讓這個老師跟行政人員能夠分開來分治校園裡面有教官過世於世來自因為金正時期當然台灣隨著民主化的一個過程裡對對對那現在我要問的那個部長是你的配套配套的有校安人員的一個補助那另外國中原來沒有教官他是管理組長嘛在那個學務處的管理組長嘛"},{"start":7578.26,"end":7594.733,"text":"當然每一個小孩都是家庭的寶也是台灣未來的希望所以我們在給小孩子有一個更好的一個發展的一個成長環境我們在國中去年也補了600多位的這個校安人力去協助這一個"},{"start":7595.973,"end":7617.419,"text":"國中在許多的一些校園的一些這個更安全更友善的一個環境上的營造我們也希望不要讓老師兼太多的行政工作讓老師回歸在教學的部分讓他們能夠提升教學品質老師回到教學的本業這是對的"},{"start":7622.02,"end":7646.429,"text":"但是因為我們國民教育法裡邊開宗明義 國民教育就是培養德智體群美 武藝驚人發展所以老師不是只有特別在小學生這一個他不是只有學科的教學沒有錯沒有錯情緒 人格 態度 生活 習慣的養成這個不可否認的當然是要前面的一個教育 這個沒有錯但是呢 我們就是說"},{"start":7648.26,"end":7663.971,"text":"最後能夠行政能夠專業化老師當然這個剛剛講的武藝是老師要教學的一個內容沒有錯行政工作能夠分治我希望我們能夠朝這樣的一個方向來走"},{"start":7664.651,"end":7681.863,"text":"也聽到第一層的這些老師的一些聲音所以我們在去年就把全面的檢討了我們這個目前對中小學老師地方到底要求什麼樣的許多的一些表格什麼樣的資料的申請我們大概150向里兵我們減少了將近70%就行政的減量我想"},{"start":7688.267,"end":7707.276,"text":"因為要跟部長報告我也是第一線第一線來的以前曾經當過老師我的來源都是第一線所以是最真實的從報告因為教育部開始在行政減量那地方縣市教育局處"},{"start":7708.635,"end":7733.907,"text":"有時候增加的時候他都算教育部的說教育部要求我想這也跟委員做這樣一個補充說好那最後呢我要跟部長分享的是說我們要有幸福的老師才能教出幸福的孩子那當學校的心理健康還有就是心理健康要落實那對學生的學習的一個成效呢才能夠有加成的一個效應"},{"start":7735.488,"end":7756.324,"text":"因此我們希望能夠將教師的幸福感還有心理健康教育能夠納入國家的一個品質關鍵的指標希望我們一起來努力今天我們有一些請教教育部的有順便一個計畫或報告也能夠送到本辦來"},{"start":7759.966,"end":7786.339,"text":"謝謝謝謝委員關心也指正我想對老師怎麼創造老師的幸福感我們一起努力這也是我們重要的我同意它是一個很重要的教育品質之一是好然後我們一起努力好謝謝好謝謝蔡春草委員的諮詢請部長回座下一位有請陳秀寶委員那等一下吳思瑤委員訓導完畢之後我們休息五分鐘秀寶委員請"},{"start":7793.294,"end":7795.555,"text":"教育部有透露將研議修改規定將毒品唾液篩檢"},{"start":7814.782,"end":7835.388,"text":"來引入校園希望可以改善傳統的尿檢法對於新興藥物像伊托米酯這樣子代謝比較快的毒品比較難用尿檢法檢出來這個問題我想請教部長目前有規劃具體的時程嗎後續這個毒品的唾液快篩要如何分配到學校我們如何執行是不是已經有開始討論了請部長說明一下"},{"start":7837.869,"end":7852.116,"text":"這次的公文報告我想這個引入快篩它確實是有助於讓我們及早發現學生的許多的一些不當的一些毒品的一些接觸那詳細的是不是我請我們學特斯"},{"start":7854.437,"end":7881.178,"text":"市長委員報告那因為那個毒品快篩的這個部分其實我們已經有在委託師大家來幫我們修正相關的要點還有一些相關的一些補充的一些措施那這個部分我們也在跟內政部警政署有研議那有加入內政部警政署他的一些毒品快篩的共同採購契約那這部分我們是希望在今年的9月能夠上路那這個部分如果採購順利的話是希望9月可以上路這樣子"},{"start":7881.698,"end":7894.602,"text":"現在在九月剩下半年的時間所以你要如何執行學校要如何配合包括相關的人力包括對象包括怎麼執行其實必須要有一個很具體的時程安排你們已經有這樣子具體的討論出來嗎"},{"start":7897.884,"end":7915.554,"text":"對這部分呢我們那個施大的研究案出來之後我們會就找各縣市然後會辦理相關的一些研析那第一線的一些教官還有校安人力可以知道說可以讓怎麼樣的運用這個毒品快篩的這個試劑那是不是說你們整個的研究的這個"},{"start":7917.755,"end":7932.269,"text":"過程了解之後呢你們開始做討論跟縣市不管是教育局處或者是相關能力做這些相關的執行的討論的時候有進展請把你們的這個報告可以給我辦公室讓我了解說你們再來是怎麼做安排好嗎"},{"start":7933.551,"end":7950.525,"text":"好 謝謝委員好 那部長 因為公民團體建業除了這個唾液的快篩之外呢也可以考慮配合第二層的檢測就是所謂的夜巷晨曦的串聯質譜讓這個快篩呢如果有偽陽性或是有爭議的時候呢可以做一些相關的這個依據部長您認為呢確實是"},{"start":7959.535,"end":7975.78,"text":"這超乎我的專業的想像但是就快篩 拖曳的一個快篩對學校來講事實上是最方便但如果有一個更能夠更精 更好的一個方式我想這一個部分我們來看 學徒師有沒有"},{"start":7976.568,"end":7990.933,"text":"跟委員報告 因為我們想要用那個快篩的步驟 推一快篩主要是因為因應那個像一坨米子這樣的一個新型毒品這是第二層 對 它代謝很快 所以我們才用推一快篩但是推一快篩它只是快篩 所以"},{"start":7991.713,"end":7995.317,"text":"不管有沒有實施快篩最後我們都還是要送尿檢那尿檢這個尿液篩檢這個才是最正確的部分所以快篩只是我們初步的一個快篩而已所以後面我們都還是會送尿檢其實除了這個毒品的檢驗之外我們只是說對學生比較一個這樣子的檢測之外呢"},{"start":8010.413,"end":8035.797,"text":"本席也認為說像圖片中這樣子的一些毒品實物展示向學生來宣導毒品的多變性也真的確實讓學生可以對類似的物品有警惕比較容易去辨識所以我希望教育部這邊可以多辦理類似這樣的毒品宣導讓學生有警覺心那提高他們辨識就是毒品就是類似毒品的話我們就趕快去避免"},{"start":8036.317,"end":8041.852,"text":"才能夠真正防止毒品進入校園那我想請問教育部你們可以安排這樣子類似的毒品宣導的課程"},{"start":8044.273,"end":8068.519,"text":"根文報告我們確實在宣導裡面事實上已經做到入班以目前來講114年我們總共有5702班直接到班上去做宣導那另外我們還有透過一些一教一樂的用戲劇的一些團體藝術團體到學校裡面去做反讀的一些宣導就是說我們事實上是多面向的"},{"start":8069.099,"end":8097.56,"text":"所以已經有在做其實本期也是支持也是肯定說這是有效果的也希望說這樣子的班次是不是才可以開更多我們除了有一些大規模的場合就是說已經做到入班然後還有音樂團體這個藝術團體這是對於校園的安全學生的安全還有來自影子我們企業界也關心這個他們也在許多許多的這一些民間的企業團體他們也幫忙在做這樣的一個宣導"},{"start":8098.561,"end":8103.903,"text":"我希望說在這個部分我們可以更積極謝謝部長接下來我們也是要關心學生權益的部分接下來是考試的部分我們108課綱為了要適應洋財在學測階段就將數學分流成數A跟數B一般就是我們區分成自然組跟社會組的學生來報考"},{"start":8121.109,"end":8126.454,"text":"但是我们根据这个统计资料显示呢这112的学测及113的学测分别有高达61.22%以及60.6%就超过六成的学生是数A数B都报考"},{"start":8137.623,"end":8154.621,"text":"那所以這也導致說社會主的學生可能會受到比較大的影響因為數A、數B雖然說他命題及考試內容針對的部分是不太一樣但是其實數B大部分的考題是可以用數A的這個邏輯觀念來解題的那自然主的學生呢他可以相對來講是覺得是比較簡單的來跨考"},{"start":8157.884,"end":8180.978,"text":"那造成說社會主的學生恐怕會面臨更大的競爭跟壓力而且很多學生他是要考量說未來在大學校系可能希望可以有更多的選擇所以呢他們都會數A數B全包所以導致說學生他要花更多的時間來學兩套考試的內容更多時間來準備甚至需要另外去補習我想請教部長"},{"start":8182.779,"end":8190.424,"text":"您覺得說數A數B的分流上我們是不是可以有更妥善的做法來降低社會主學生所受到的影響"},{"start":8191.919,"end":8217.04,"text":"謝謝委員這個議題其實本來就是我們當初的一個設計的利益就是能夠視性選才每一個學生高中生也開始去思考他的一個生涯的一個發展走向早期是只有一個數學不管你要選人文社會或者理工全部都是一個數學現在把它分流就是希望說學生能夠本以他的一個興趣來發展"},{"start":8217.841,"end":8236.077,"text":"但是有超過六成對 但是現在這個變成有六成這個部分我想我們會我們再來看怎麼樣去兼顧學生的生涯發展又能夠讓這個這個秩序上的資料的選擇裡面因為其實108課綱這個多元學型適性發展本身也是認同的"},{"start":8240.401,"end":8258.626,"text":"但是我們要重視到不同類組學生的權益這麼高比例的跨考其實跟我們108課剛這個事情發展我們要做數學分流這樣的初中本意是背道而馳的本來分流還有一個包含他學習過程裡面他能夠"},{"start":8259.346,"end":8281.263,"text":"對啦 現在他兩組都要跑他兩組都要準備啊超過六成欸部長 超過六成欸所以這個跟我們本來的本意我覺得是沒有做到位而且反而增加學生的壓力我們來跟等於說一線上的部長 其實很多學生家長有希望說"},{"start":8282.364,"end":8297.886,"text":"那你既然分數A跟數B你就同堂考試你不要分堂嘛那讓你要選擇的學生你就很確認的很正確的去選擇你要數A或數B然後擇一應考這樣的方式可以嗎"},{"start":8299.522,"end":8314.81,"text":"這個我想我們還是來研究因為確實在民主的一個這個寶貴的精神就是多元那我們學生他事實上是有多項的一個興趣如果你一定要用一刀兩切的一個方式我想這個我們會後我們來研議"},{"start":8317.731,"end":8344.205,"text":"剛才本席所說的其實你這麼高比例的跨考跟你本來要做分流的這個初中就本來就一看就知道說跟你本來這個好意學生在他選擇上來講並沒有照著你們所想的這樣去做他兩組都要考兩套教材他們都要準備那當然對理科的學生來講他的理解力這樣子來考兩組的考試他可能就覺得沒有負擔但是在社會主義學生"},{"start":8348.408,"end":8368.439,"text":"這個學習比較好的他確實在考數B的時候是比較駕輕就熟的那對只選擇數B的學生他也不得不去選擇數A但是他沒有這個優勢啊因為其實一般念文組的學生他本來在這個理科的這個理解力或者是他在這個數學的運算能力可能就沒有數理科的這麼強"},{"start":8369.5,"end":8391.434,"text":"那這樣相對下來會造成他們的壓力跟他們的負擔所以這個部分我希望教育部你們這邊可以研議相關的配套而且兩個月之內你把你們的書面報告我們來看怎麼考召的制度能夠更精進我們在會後再跟委員做報告好 就麻煩部長了 謝謝好 謝謝陳秀寶委員的質詢請部長回座接下來有請吳思瑤委員質詢 請"},{"start":8404.778,"end":8414.285,"text":"谢谢主席有请郑部长请郑部长备询今天的主题跟高教跟国教都有关系很好"},{"start":8415.263,"end":8436.958,"text":"大家辛苦那今天我刚刚有听到林一锦委员也针对转型正义有提出他的一些观点那我希望也能够补强一些我给教育部的建议转型正义就要从教育下手教育部是主角而不是配角我们除了颁布了行动纲领我们的行动更要具体化"},{"start":8438.039,"end":8440.161,"text":"轉型正義就在我們每一天的生活裡"},{"start":8467.919,"end":8485.158,"text":"那吳思瑤跟你一樣啦只是你比我高一級你是已經認列為台獨的頑固分子不夠啊那吳思瑤現在只是台獨的打手幫兇也就是我在幫助你這樣子你會怕嗎?中國對你的跨境鎮壓會怕嗎?"},{"start":8490.096,"end":8518.492,"text":"我無憂無懼無憂無懼因為您是優雅的台灣人對於壞鄰居冠上的名稱你會一笑置之而且會更秉持著教育基本法我們培育人才推動愛台灣的愛國教育守護台灣的民主自由無私也要跟你一樣有一天如果我也能夠榮登跟您榜上列在一起我會覺得更大的光榮我會持續的努力但是從這件事情下一頁"},{"start":8519.755,"end":8546.911,"text":"搭配著現在轉型正義的一個特快車我認為我們教育部就應當借力使力跟上這一股的熱潮搭上這班列車轉型正義是全台灣公民的民主的補課我們需要更多覺醒的賈永傑那教育部是主角不是配角雖然我知道你們剛剛說你只有兩個人力我們來看怎麼做"},{"start":8549.233,"end":8568.013,"text":"國際是這樣做的德國呢他們用追討回來的不義黨產大概40億來成立了一個評估的委員會他們的做法是設立圖書館展示文物他們支持公司裡的文化事物包括各類的出版跟展覽"},{"start":8568.914,"end":8586.107,"text":"他們當然也鼓勵非常多的寫作他們也進行國際合作他們更提供學術的補助以及設獎學金你可以想想我們哪裡沒做到所以我說這裡有高教的工作也有國教的工作好 下一頁"},{"start":8587.208,"end":8602.382,"text":"加拿大他们的转型正义是对原住民族的历史的平反所以不外乎是针对原住民族受迫害的那些受迫害的那一段的历史真相呢来强化教育他的做法也是给补助"},{"start":8603.042,"end":8622.8,"text":"然后呢要从课程来进行教学不外乎都是这些做法好下一页看看波兰喔波兰是更生活化的他们设计非常多生活化的桌游跟教具然后呢这个国家记忆研究院其实就等同于我们过去现在退场的促转会一样"},{"start":8623.52,"end":8642.931,"text":"會定期提供學校出版品舉辦教師的研習活動而且來進行受難者的訪談現身說法就更有說服力然後進行全國性的展覽我用這些國際例子是讓您想一想我們還有哪些可以做更多下一頁"},{"start":8643.991,"end":8670.239,"text":"我在促進轉型正義條例2016修法的時候吳思瑤的版本就是把促轉基金追討回來的不義黨產除了國家原始的用途要用在長照跟社福之外我把它增加可以用在人權教育跟轉型正義相關的文化事務所以我們要爭取這個促轉基金的使用"},{"start":8670.999,"end":8695.807,"text":"而促轉會退場之後呢教育部就應當跟跨部會一起來進行合作教育部當然是人權教育為主但我們應當跟文化部保存的不義遺址或政治檔案的研究多多合作我都提點到這裡下一頁我們的這個馬上要到期的轉型正義的行動剛臨"},{"start":8698.12,"end":8720.78,"text":"到2026年2023到2026年是第一期請問喔 你們有第二階段嗎跟委員報告有的 我們這個朱次長他現在在統合好 會有第二階段 非常好那我希望未來也建議主席我們能夠有轉型正義的專報所以有2.0對不對確定會有是幾年期的呢 次長"},{"start":8722.844,"end":8734.014,"text":"跟委員報告我們是明年開始是4年4年至少116好 那預算呢但是我們用1加4的方式我們今年就會先超過好 那預算也多少足夠嗎"},{"start":8735.185,"end":8742.768,"text":"原則上我們會再申請促轉基金的協助但是教育部也會允職我們一些協同基金的小朋友來跟我說一個你們的新的規劃好嗎那我希望您能夠納入我剛剛的一些國際經驗我現在要分享給部長給次長的就是不用怕雖然只有兩個人力我覺得不夠啦還是要擴編啦"},{"start":8755.754,"end":8781.795,"text":"但是跨部會的下手合作以及跟公司合作其實是一個很好借力使力的方法因為民間非常多這樣子的NGO我們可以去合作下一頁我提供您幾個建議第一個國教端鼓勵教案的多元開發融入課程第二個跨部會plus公司協力來提出多元的活動"},{"start":8782.876,"end":8799.493,"text":"第三结合沉浸式的体验教育就是现在文化部教育部在做很多文化体验的课程把它搭配进去而且要注意是限地的教学on-site learning这是国教端我的三个期许而高教端呢"},{"start":8800.054,"end":8828.055,"text":"我更鼓励我们现在的大学部分学校有针对转型正义有通识课程我认为可以鼓励以及我们可以鼓励这方面的研究设立奖学金也是一个可以的方向我的这些综整的意见请问朱次长对于通识教育还有设转学奖学金来鼓励转型正义的学术领域的"},{"start":8828.716,"end":8829.705,"text":"研究可以參採吧"},{"start":8831.957,"end":8848.27,"text":"跟委員報告委員剛才所提的不管從國際的一個經驗到國教端跟高教端都這個深化這個轉型正義啊都非常具體可行我想我們會把它納入2.0納入2.0的這個轉型正義的一個槓好我最後有三頁很簡單就安你們的心你們可以在現有少少的人力當然我希望擴充人力跟能量好下一頁怎麼做呢"},{"start":8859.259,"end":8876.081,"text":"這些人權故事車去巡迴校園吳思瑤也爭取了到北投的學校人權故事的展覽還有舞台劇這個很好 校園在巡迴人權素養的教具箱有非常多元的教具"},{"start":8877.042,"end":8897.374,"text":"还有下面这个桌游的开发台湾文学馆做的以上这四个事情其实都是文化部在做文化部的文化馆社在做你们要跟他们搭上线人权叫故事车多来一些学校对不对人权故事行动的舞台剧或是展览多去我们的下乡"},{"start":8898.574,"end":8922.861,"text":"這些多元的桌遊課程都可以跟這些人權館或文學館來合作這些是不用你們的人甚至不用太多你們的錢搭便車好嗎然後促轉會過去也有非常多的當事人入校的一個分享這些我們都是跨部會可以搭便車的在下一頁"},{"start":8923.641,"end":8938.313,"text":"这些是现有的课程我们都有各校的文化美感的教学这是融入课程的我建议过去都去很多两厅院故宫北美馆高美馆卫武营都很好"},{"start":8939.013,"end":8961.14,"text":"融入对于人权管或者是不义移植都是扩充这些选项而已不用花太多钱直接纳入就好on-site learning是UNESCO定定最有效的遗产教育的方式好最后一个这个也是刚刚讲有很多管所"},{"start":8962.06,"end":8984.706,"text":"其实人权管是我们要扩大合作的单位我过去历次 当然我是这一次在两年后再回到教育文化委员会这是我2023整理的资料我们让学生的校外教学前进人权管是逐年递减的我不知道为什么这是2023的统计搭上这一股台湾的公民的民主补课"},{"start":8985.99,"end":9009.25,"text":"其实你不用有这些大家现在都去看自由的花蕊大家都去人权管但是教育部的责任教育部是主角不是配角对于人权管跟不易移植的这些融入校外教学的选择我们真的可以来推广出去我提供的这些建议都是在现在只有两个人力的状况之下马上就可以做的"},{"start":9009.71,"end":9038.626,"text":"至於如何去擴充Extend 2.0的部分我希望後續還有時間跟大家做更多元的討論但是不要忘了不是只有國教高教有相當大的責任好不好我今天提供給我們台獨頑固分子鄭英耀部長我們就要做更多當我們被中國鎖定我們代表我們做對了很多事我們毫無恐懼所以我們都不可以走了"},{"start":9039.67,"end":9057.585,"text":"感謝委員的一個指導我想我們都非常的一個具體也是我們很多東西跟我們目前的規劃方向是一樣包含高等教育裡面我們怎麼樣去創新教學計畫裡面就把它融入或者大學的USR我想我們會前面來很好USR是可以擴大的我們後續希望能夠有這樣的專題分享我們來進一步研議USR非常好我倒還沒有納入我們可以來做謝謝"},{"start":9068.655,"end":9073.319,"text":"謝謝吳斯堯委員的質詢 請部長回座我們現在休息五分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":9165.197,"end":9167.762,"text":"現在我就給它換好了還是有還是有我給它放這裡好了"},{"start":9386.572,"end":9409.303,"text":"現在繼續開會 下一位有請葛如軍委員進行詢答好 謝謝主席 有請教育部政議要部長"},{"start":9410.185,"end":9413.407,"text":"好 請鄭義耀部長上備訓台 謝謝委員好部長好 剛剛有提到台獨頑固分子那我想沒有AI主權就沒有獨立主權我想AI的人才技術真的是下一個世代最重要的 也包括教育部長不知道有沒有看過周星馳的電影"},{"start":9436.825,"end":9456.761,"text":"我是星爺的粉絲在電影《九品芝麻官》裡面有一句非常經典的台詞拿明朝的劍斬清朝的官我看到部長你都在笑顯然你可能也是粉絲我至少看過這部片用來比喻舊時代的制度來治理新時代的現象這邏輯是荒謬而且語法無據的部長"},{"start":9457.521,"end":9476.856,"text":"既然不能用明朝的建來展清朝的官為什麼我們可以用3G時代所制定的課綱來教育5G的孩子呢我想部長您的笑容怎麼臉上消失了這真的很不好笑而且非常離譜當3G的時代的通信已經在2024年6月30號已經全面在台灣關閉以後"},{"start":9478.317,"end":9493.386,"text":"同個年代的產物也就是108課綱仍然被奉為台灣中小學教育的閨念本席一直向來都非常關心台灣數位科技教育的推展那部長啊我也必須要非常感念您啊2024年的7月份呢對於108課綱的說法說"},{"start":9498.168,"end":9518.91,"text":"明確地講法律沒有明確規定每十年要大改一次因此沒有118課綱但是會對於科技領域的課綱進行局部微調加入AI以及數學學習的內容這是您的原話結果將近兩年的時間過去直到今天我們登上國教院的網站科技領域的課綱"},{"start":9519.631,"end":9534.845,"text":"依然是107年就是2018年9月份所制定的3G時代的東西部長承諾的AI以及數學學習的部分目前只聞樓梯響部長近來有很多科技大廠就在呼籲人才 人才 人才"},{"start":9535.586,"end":9561.862,"text":"能源能源能源那能源呢我們也看到賴清德總統已經說要重啟核電了要願意放下神主牌人才的部分我們則沒有看到教育部有任何的回應甚至前幾天公平會來公布深層市人工智慧報告明確指出業界普遍認為台灣現階段人才培育速度難以跟上需求請教部長教育部何時能夠完成科技領域課綱的微調"},{"start":9564.036,"end":9580.135,"text":"跟吳委員報告 確實在這個AI的一個世代裡面我們一直 我們看在108客康裡面它就有科技領域 科技水養是 要微調嘛 對不起我時間很有限你不要再重複我的問題我問你什麼時候可以完成啦"},{"start":9581.141,"end":9602.232,"text":"我們現在就在做我們現在的課程課程所有從課程教學跟老師的真容我們現在事實上都一直在做那什麼時候嘛我就說什麼時候做到什麼時候啊因為108課綱是科技素養嘛在科技素養裡面就直接我們就談AI不再談3G了好那我們就來看先看教育部的回文說108課綱"},{"start":9605.84,"end":9628.275,"text":"據前瞻性已經可以將世界趨勢產業發展大陸學生的學習本部未維持現行課綱的穩定性沒有要修改也沒有要微調啊部長這是2026年的教育部要打臉你2024年的正部長嗎還是您底下的這些同仁陽奉陰違不遵守部長微調108課綱的指示呢"},{"start":9629.365,"end":9645.237,"text":"我想這裡邊可能當時話沒有講清楚跟我們抱歉因為主要在科技素養裡邊本來我們過去可能是教教這個PE2但是現在我們直接就進AI就是說同樣都是一個進AI我們現在講的是課綱啦我們現在講課綱啦課綱有沒有AI"},{"start":9650.362,"end":9677.077,"text":"很前瞻性嘛 前瞻性啊哇 又前瞻性又有世界趨勢好 那我來請教部長你說我們有科技領域課綱嘛 對不對有前瞻嘛 AI嘛 請部長猜一下這本課綱從頭到尾出現過幾次人工智慧 幾次AI 是不知道很前瞻嘛 世界趨勢嘛 出現幾次這麼重要的文件"},{"start":9678.413,"end":9706.442,"text":"部長竟然沒有概念啊科技領域的中等學校的課綱出現幾次人工智慧答案部長不知道對不對跟我們報告這個幾次真的我不曉得這一本課綱啊從頭到尾只出現過一次啦只有一次四個字就是人工智慧這樣更誇張的AI這兩個字啊完全沒有提啊所以我們的學生在學的時候到底AI人工智慧"},{"start":9707.489,"end":9722.636,"text":"完整的理念是完全不足的早在2016年谷歌的人工智慧就已經在棋盤上面跟委員報告委員是這一個領域的專家當然我們教育部如果有不足的也歡迎委員謝謝部長啦我現在就點出問題嘛我現在點出問題我們一起來解決啦齁"},{"start":9725.817,"end":9748.839,"text":"那現在我們其實看到這個真的不能再怠惰下去了我們真的是希望贏回2024年的鄭部長啊我們真的應該要趕快微調了不要再只是講我們有在做什麼時候我們現在部長您看啊兩任兩本是前任部長一本是您啊這個AI指引嘛用普丁的方式在搞我們的AI教育這樣夠嗎"},{"start":9750.541,"end":9777.49,"text":"我想這可能還是完全不夠的真的能讓學生認識AI 了解AI 善用AI嗎那我們認為啦AI還有所謂AI素養數位素養都完全不夠課綱裡面對AI的描述也完全不足那我想要考一下這個部長啊數位世界裡面的數位素養要去理解它 學習它大家常用emoji來這個社群互動啊部長看一下很好的範例喔這個女星安海社會開通最帳號啦前"},{"start":9779.631,"end":9789.65,"text":"總統蔡英文底下留言三個小圖示部長可不可以幫忙我們全國師生翻譯一下這三個小圖示是什麼意思看一下部長您的素慧素養"},{"start":9795.542,"end":9817.127,"text":"請委員指導這一題我是讓分耶 這個很簡單 你看那個主席都在笑了我很佩服啊 蔡前總統的小編太厲害 這個叫做真羨慕啦很羨慕的意思安海社會的那個真羨是脆的意思啦 這串在一起的意思沒有關係 這個梗就是數位素養的一部分"},{"start":9817.927,"end":9829.034,"text":"那我覺得有人會不知道有人會知道也許我們下一步部長我們也可以來補充一下那也再做一下測驗啦這個emoji是什麼意思左邊是什麼翻譯一下這沒有陷阱啦部長就是你現在的表情啦笑啦開心啦中間呢中間翻譯成中文是什麼也是笑喜極而泣"},{"start":9848.593,"end":9863.564,"text":"笑到掉眼淚好啦可以啦笑哭啦那第三個是什麼這比較難了這比較難了試試看啦倒立著笑是不是笑翻過來也不錯很有創意"},{"start":9865.191,"end":9892.712,"text":"這叫陰陽怪氣的意思啦部長我們用這個賴總統尷尬又不失禮貌的微笑來這個對您的程度我只能給你這樣一個微笑啦那我們在看AI素養數位素養我再請部長看一段影片判斷一下這是不是AI偽造的訊息美國第一夫人梅蘭妮與AI機器人一同亮相的影片就在白宮啊白宮的背景啊"},{"start":9894.204,"end":9921.983,"text":"部長 你覺得這是AI偽造的假影片嗎確實現在的這個假影片確實是這是真的還假的啦 部長部長 很好 我覺得部長這個精神很棒要很仔細看才能回答 沒錯這要給部長一個肯定我跟部長報告啦這是 要不要說一下嘛"},{"start":9924.329,"end":9941.178,"text":"您是你不行啦部長你這樣子不能逃避寫答案的那個責任我質詢您要回答好不好我同意我一定遵照委員的意思來辦來做沒有啦沒關係部長說不出來沒關係啦因為委員是理業的專家我不敢在委員的面前部長"},{"start":9942.7,"end":9956.019,"text":"對 謝謝沒有 大家都不夠專家我們AI時代所有人都在同一條起跑線上所以教育部拜託要讓我們在新的起跑線上讓所有的學生都要能夠往前衝這部影片是真的"},{"start":9957.14,"end":9980.156,"text":"為什麼因為他的這個帳號是有一個金色勾勾Twitter2022年就發布了金色勾勾就是企業的帳號而這個影像完全是真實的AI時代不是只是手機裡面的AI是走出來了走在白宮裡面結果我們的課綱科技領域隊人工智慧提到一次四個字人工智慧懂不懂啊部長"},{"start":9981.577,"end":9996.695,"text":"這種科技教育原地踏步我想不是只是您在這裡說委員我尊重我謝謝您的精神但要take actionaction talks louder than words好不好拜託我們事實上現在有規劃了一個未來人才AI的能力圖像"},{"start":9999.363,"end":10025.102,"text":"好啦我知道部長您自己也有點要笑哭了啦這個我們都知道同仁也很努力不夠好不好真的不夠這個稿子我都知道同仁準備很努力真的不夠啦課綱微調好不好課綱科技的部分的微調2024年的您不要打臉2024年的你自己啦那最後我爭取一點時間啦其實芬蘭有一些例子我希望教育部的同仁可以去研議啦"},{"start":10026.323,"end":10051.443,"text":"他接下來要強調數位參與權要作為基本公民權每個人都要有平等使用AI的機會目標很具體喔住在偏鄉的阿嬤都要懂AI這是芬蘭部長本席先前有提醒過教育部AI要大力推廣而且要在終身教育全面的推廣上次質詢完以後教育部有沒有加強終身教育階段的AI教育資源"},{"start":10052.726,"end":10077.8,"text":"這個確實我們在中生教育這個社區大學裡邊我們也請這個中生師能夠跟社區大學裡邊能夠管開類似的一些AI科技教育的部分就是科技教育我們現在事實上我也去看了這一個彰化的一個社區大學裡邊我們看到一個80歲的女士也在操作"},{"start":10078.28,"end":10105.905,"text":"這是很好的很好的例子謝謝教育部但是本席也整理過了台灣的學生或者所有人最常使用的AI工具要錢的對吧有20美金的600塊台幣的6000塊台幣的知行要合一我謝謝有提供知的教育說知道但是用付費的跟付很貴的費用的到底差在哪裡學生有沒有那個能力去知道"},{"start":10107.113,"end":10109.83,"text":"有沒有這個能力知道我想這個當然"},{"start":10111.124,"end":10135.612,"text":"老師在上課的怎麼樣去做那老師有沒有辦法報帳去付錢去教學有沒有這樣的預算跟我們報告當我們這一個這一個AI這一個方舟人才培育計畫我們確實考慮到是不是在老師的教學裡邊也能夠有一些部分的經費的一些補助太好了我們確實是有這樣對已經在討論這一個議題好要"},{"start":10140.914,"end":10167.277,"text":"做好不好我們每次問AI的時候再討論你2024年討論到現在了我們當然中央跟地方來合作看怎麼樣能夠因為老師在教確實他會用到這個附會的軟體部長你們的高度還是很重要先前我們曾經引用Global AI Index台灣賣AI全球第一用AI全球第二十一遠遠落後新加坡日本韓國我這都已經倒背如流了部長"},{"start":10168.018,"end":10192.288,"text":"文化部的文化幣是很棒的政策教育部有沒有辦法研議AIB我們已經講了一整年了啦剛剛提到的偏鄉阿嬤用AIB可以來用付費的AI老師可以用AIB來教學生學生可以用AIB來體驗付費的AI跟沒付費的差別在哪裡這也是學習對AIB發放進程有沒有什麼具體的進展"},{"start":10194.68,"end":10214.26,"text":"最後我想我們內部我們來討論這個我們會持續跟同仁保持緊密的聯繫我想主席也會認同這真的太重要那我最後給部長一個非常重要的idea這是open source的idea 開源的部長我們研議內部做了很多討論教育部所屬的圖書館"},{"start":10216.237,"end":10241.076,"text":"可不可以率先做起成為台灣數位平權的領頭羊管管有AI這不是只是喊話而已圖書館裡面的電腦可不可以有AI訂閱的服務可不可以訂20塊美金的可不可以訂200塊美金的只要你有一個借書證你可以去使用這台電腦你可以體驗一下付費的AI畫出來的圖字都不會歪"},{"start":10242.097,"end":10262.423,"text":"付菲的AI畫出來的寫出來的文章他可以教導我很多的知識AI就像一個有汪洋大海的圖書館而且他還可以跟你一起協作管管有AI的目標讓教育部所屬的圖書館成為台灣民眾接觸先進科技的平台的第一站跟媒介有沒有機會"},{"start":10264.042,"end":10291.05,"text":"有沒有機會部長這idea真的很棒謝謝委員這一個非常專業也非常良善的一個建議我想我們來做太讚了部長可不可以在一個月內將相關研議結果書面提供給本席初步就好了一個月真的因為AI真的走得很快我們糧食廠來跟委員來做報告最後我今天真的非常感謝主席願意讓我借用這麼多的時間我最後要跟部長分享"},{"start":10292.37,"end":10307.746,"text":"芬蘭真的例子可以參考其實那個觀光有AI他們也在做部分我們一定可以做得比他更好那因為為什麼每一個AI的晶片都台灣在賣的嘛我們應該要讓台灣的每一個孩子都更加的能夠使用到AI那還有一個很重要的議題啦"},{"start":10308.627,"end":10337.694,"text":"芬蘭不僅一己之力躍升AI科技強國並且大力推廣免費的政府做的免費的AI線上課程叫Elements of AI他除了嘉惠他自己本國的國名還把這個課程免費送給歐盟所以現在歐洲的很多國家170個國家超過200萬人的這個超過200萬人透過這個平台來了解AI部長全球有12到14億的人口使用中文"},{"start":10338.494,"end":10354.012,"text":"那當然我們美麗的凡中也是有很多人在使用那今天教育部有沒有辦法抓緊時機讓14億人利用繁體中文的教材來學習AI我們最了解AI我們中華民國我們台灣是最了解AI的"},{"start":10355.014,"end":10370.701,"text":"要了解AI 看台灣要了解AI 看台灣的繁體中文我看到官員也都點頭了這個我們有沒有辦法更積極呀來推動一個真正的AI教程可以跟課綱微調一起進行好不好有沒有辦法有開麥嗎"},{"start":10379.997,"end":10388.244,"text":"AI人才方舟計畫我們就會做這一個事情我想我們一起來研議部長AI發展一日千里"},{"start":10389.406,"end":10409.805,"text":"希望教育部可以发AI币这是民进党执政有可能一个非常重要的得证我们也不分党派我们也赞美文化币我们也赞美运动币可是人才教育AI的对接小米社会的断层促进数位的平权提升科技的禁用这是不分党派的"},{"start":10410.585,"end":10430.582,"text":"內容教育的提升14億中文人口學習AI的機會就掌握在部長您的手上好不好這一點我們希望一起來努力提升我們台灣在AI世界的話語權好 謝謝謝謝AI立委葛如軍委員的豐富質詢請部長回座接下來有請謝龍介委員質詢"},{"start":10445.376,"end":10470.226,"text":"主席我請補充有請部長雙倍訊臺補充您好請教這個老師越來越會你跟這個看公教退休金有關嗎陳佩儀說沒有啦我相信你教書出身的你有很多同學"},{"start":10471.684,"end":10482.413,"text":"你的同僚都有這個感受這是一個事實 但是這已經過去的事情就是說以前我們總有算一條七千多億到一條九千億說未來災情會很困難所以請大家共體時間來檢驗一些退休金運動機制也當然"},{"start":10496.184,"end":10505.447,"text":"結果不知道現在變三層了,民進黨說他接種了不錯,災情越來越好,一年比一年好結果同期時間,台鐵銷金的角度都不一樣所以這點是很重要的原因,所以今天修法,你如果拿不出對策他們說,種的不白,聽的到六倍,那是不好的,要對症下藥"},{"start":10523.48,"end":10541.399,"text":"當受治療比喻擁護啊老師基本上不會受到紊亂又不能體育又沒辦法有保障什麼人要做老師啊回到同期時的你啦現在的你跟同期時的你那現在的你 你是不可能再做老師啊 覺得是這樣"},{"start":10543.94,"end":10549.522,"text":"跟委員報告喔 我真的客人比較浪漫 比較熱情喔我對高雄一直都有興趣抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉"},{"start":10560.126,"end":10571.27,"text":"因為我不是吃不飽,因為我們現在在說,我們對老師當然要怎麼提升他的一些服務代表我看你剛才的報告,靠靠聲聲都AI,不然AI的立委一直問你,我如果是潘石居跟董,對不對越講越久,你這個AI若沒有電就會害了"},{"start":10583.188,"end":10589.131,"text":"台灣的電力 河河山重啟 這是正確的你的AI講那些 我來問問看我試試看請問你對於中華民國教育部對學生所規劃的AI學習課程有什麼看法來"},{"start":10612.535,"end":10631.463,"text":"他說我先用實際這個政策實際在教什麼,我的評價是優點跟問題,我幫你評價優點,跟總結來回答,第一,教育部目前AI課程在教什麼,我來重點猜測,不錯,他說大致可以分三層,看你們會不會對,"},{"start":10637.113,"end":10648.929,"text":"基礎成AI素養 中小學為主 認識AI是什麼 怎麼運作 理解AI在生活中的應用 學習判斷譬如用AI做語言學習 寫作輔助 練習辨識AI產生的"},{"start":10655.373,"end":10681.883,"text":"不是工程師也要懂AI啦這是你的核心目標第二個 應用層就是跨域加上問題解決的課程核心這是你們的規則裡面教育部強調學生要用AI處理真實問題培養解決問題跟跨域能力第三 就是進階層專業的AI課程大概就是高中大學"},{"start":10683.602,"end":10700.04,"text":"課程 程式設計 機器學習 自然語言處理跨校AI課程 甚至可以拿證書第四 教學上的一個關鍵改變好 第二我對這套AI課程的看法"},{"start":10704.905,"end":10728.146,"text":"優點我認為做得不錯是課程設計是未來導向而不是工具導向但是台灣課程在做的是理解AI應用AI批判AI這對你來講是比較成熟跨域跨域的部分設計是正確方向再來現在他說你的問題在哪裡"},{"start":10733.683,"end":10745.112,"text":"第一 課程理念很好 但是很難教要會AI 要會設計問題 要會引導討論 現實是不是每個老師都準備好了第二 學生容易學到表面使用 不是深度理解"},{"start":10762.981,"end":10785.521,"text":"譬如會用AI寫報告 但不知道AI怎麼錯了這是你現在面臨的問題如果沒有設計好 學生會變成AI操作員 而不是思考者我感覺不中 他把你寫得這麼有道理第三 評量方式跟不上你的課程"},{"start":10787.832,"end":10799.032,"text":"現在的課程在教創造力問題解決但是考試還是標準答案跟背誦這會導致一個矛盾課堂一套考試又是另外一套"},{"start":10800.051,"end":10819.878,"text":"哇 慘了咧第四 課程可能會過度樂觀AI目前很多課程AI很好用AI幫助學習但比較少強調它的偏誤跟幻覺以及過度依賴會讓學生低估了風險他給你一個比較直接的結論"},{"start":10822.205,"end":10847.232,"text":"這套AI課程在理念上是先進的但在學習深度上有相當的風險講白一點教學方向教對方向就是跨域加素養加應用但不一定學得深容易流於工具使用阿伯他有說如果你叫他幫你升級他會有三件事你自己去問AI"},{"start":10849.025,"end":10851.835,"text":"你覺得他告訴你,我剛才告訴你,看你現在的情況有多少嗎?"},{"start":10855.674,"end":10863.701,"text":"謝謝委員,GPT真的很厲害因為我們現在面臨的挑戰,老師我們目前有參加過AI的研習,重慶五萬人但是我們所有的老師二十萬人我再給你一個建議,因為我們現在的問題大家都會去問AI"},{"start":10879.696,"end":10902.307,"text":"你現在課程怎麼樣啊那我建議你再多問幾個啦多問幾個平台綜合這些答案然後針對你現在對AI所提出來的課程給各級學校大家共同我覺得他講得很客觀你的問題跟你的優點都有了然後改進方向也有了"},{"start":10903.46,"end":10928.853,"text":"這就是你剛才說他厲害嘛但是你必須要接納他嘛如果你不接納他你只想當一個操作者最後你就會像他剛剛講的一樣嘛不管部長也好委員也好學生也好我們都要自己去思考我們要運用AI不是只把它當成工具這樣好不好是好 謝謝我看他們委員都完全規定了好感謝委員提起好"},{"start":10930.794,"end":10952.722,"text":"好 我們也特別謝謝台南點子王謝龍介委員的AI質詢 請部長回座下一位 我們有請陳培宇委員詢答 請好 謝謝主席 部長是不是喝個水休息一下嘛那一樣要有請部長"},{"start":10967.302,"end":10969.044,"text":"好有請部長謝謝好請鄭部長備詢請委員好"},{"start":10977.242,"end":10991.782,"text":"部長好 我們來看第一個新聞我們感到很納悶我們看到有相關的新聞報導說國立台中科技大學為什麼要強調國立呢教育部你們的主管業務你們是他們主管我想問一下"},{"start":10992.142,"end":11012.084,"text":"相關的報導我們後來詢問了教育部問說這個校長到中國去申請補助這件事情有沒有報請教育部同意教育部給我們辦公室的回函說得非常的模糊你們只告訴我相關法規但是你們沒有告訴我台中科大目前的說法是什麼"},{"start":11012.805,"end":11034.165,"text":"第二个他当时参选的时候他必须要交一些书面资料就是他到底有没有到中国大陆地区去从事交流呢或者是他有没有去中国大陆地区做一些讲座啦那他哪一些沟有哪一些沟没有我相信你们手上有资料但是我在看你们给我回复的资料我觉得非常的荒谬到底有没有"},{"start":11034.785,"end":11043.894,"text":"說不清楚相關的法規其實規定的很清楚但是到底這個學校現況如何那教育部接下來如何問責跟確認相關事情到底是不是屬實"},{"start":11045.183,"end":11071.244,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個台中科大陳校長的這一件案例因為經媒體揭露我們教育部自己指示已經行文要學校把所有的對外界的一個指控要這個先說明清楚等於說要回覆教育部然後我們再根據他的一個回覆我們會到現場裡面再去做實地的一些這個調查了解"},{"start":11072.385,"end":11077.931,"text":"我目前 行政程序目前是已經行文要學校針對外界的什麼時候發文 部長什麼時候發的文"},{"start":11081.036,"end":11108.911,"text":"大聲一點謝謝跟委員報告喔那個報載之後的第二天我們就發文了那你們讓他們多久時間回應你們我們就一週內一週那他們回覆了嗎還沒還沒好那我聽說現在有地方上有聲音傳出我不確定教育部你們接下來態度會是什麼據說台中科技大學的人可能會跟你們說可能然後會說查無事實那你們怎麼辦假設你們收到這樣的回覆你們該怎麼辦"},{"start":11111.53,"end":11135.405,"text":"那個部長已經指示了我們會主專案小組依據學校所報的他們自己提供的一些資料佐證資料給我們那我們就會實際的主條的根據報導還有你們回覆的這一些我們會去做一些的查核那還有論文的部分國科會也是在做查核"},{"start":11135.805,"end":11160.813,"text":"所以教育部会跟国客会一起开会吗还是分头并进我们会分头做因为国客会只负责论文好没有问题我觉得这个态度非常的坚定而且非常的清楚有就有没有就没有有犯法就有犯法没有犯法就没有犯法我们从来没有阻止两岸学术交流但是该申报就要申报该遵守法规就要遵守法规我想态度非常的清楚以上谢谢好接下来第二个"},{"start":11162.471,"end":11189.483,"text":"学生辅导法在修法之后有非常多的执法要修订那我现在回到教文我继续追踪相关进度第一个是相关的要点那我们办公室在召开会议之后我们知道实施要点往下呢会有这个教职员原而编制准则的问题还有专业辅导人设置的办法那这边我想要直接请国教署署长回答署长我想要确认一下原而编制准则跟辅导人设置办法你们目前执法修法进度跟相关公告进度的规划"},{"start":11190.003,"end":11212.501,"text":"好謝謝首先在要點的部分會配合原則準則以及下面的第三點在行政院4月9號會審議審議的結果我們會作為補助的依據這是第一點那這個我們預期行政院那個是我們會尊重行政院審議的結果應該是4月份會審議完所以第一項應該5月份以前會公佈"},{"start":11213.041,"end":11230.447,"text":"好 第一項五月份以前然後第二項因為它會涉及到最近委員們提到了行政專職化的討論原來我們預定前一個版本在3月31號可以公布但是行政專職化因為部長很關心還是希望我們全面蒐集意見檢討這個我們會在五到六月間公布"},{"start":11231.167,"end":11243.773,"text":"好第二項它是很大規模的那我們會在那個時間公佈不希望在可能要更久本來要7月8月我們覺得應該要5月6月讓學校就可以禁用在新學年度前所以我們會在5月6月5月底會完成太好了書長書長你完全都知道我要問什麼"},{"start":11250.236,"end":11273.947,"text":"第一項我沒有問題然後第三項專府人的辦法跟補助辦法4月9號會公佈這個我也沒有問題確實關鍵是他會連動到第二項你剛說這個關於人員員額編制準則他會牽扯到行政人員專職這件事情我認為確實如同剛謝委員所說的很多老師在問可不可以減輕他們行政但是你現在跟我說五六月所以你們決定這個部分需要送交行政院嗎"},{"start":11274.767,"end":11289.023,"text":"第二項不用送交行政院所以布裡面自己決定就可以了現在主要是在蒐集意見譬如說我們有五條的主要內涵好 請說包含說我們要不要讓小學有設副組長我們要不要讓"},{"start":11290.304,"end":11311.598,"text":"這個關係到緣而編制對我們要不要讓變動的學校組織因為少了一個班結果他設組呢結果他大量減組這些能不能夠跟地方政府溝通讓他變動不要這麼大因為他的所有行政事務還是在類似這些有五個項目會後我們給委員那另外專職化也考慮到"},{"start":11312.458,"end":11338.309,"text":"不要一定要配置正式公務員有沒有可能因為不是設組長他是設人力的專職的話能不能夠用契約禁用等等這些都因為涉及到地方政府整體運用人力那我們也覺得是一個新時代比較先進的做法但這五項的精神可能要跟地方政府或有關單位包含人力單位做比較完整的溝通好"},{"start":11338.609,"end":11365.761,"text":"那相關的進度會繼續跟委員匯報好 謝謝署長這麼清楚的說明我想我們都知道正義的點在哪裡尤其是才化把新版實施之後其實非常多的錢到了地方去我先預告我認為如果你們在這件事情上沒有把態度說清楚到底這些新增的員額編制裡面包含你剛剛說副組長也好還是相關契約的範本也好到底用什麼樣的方法聘請這些行政專職進來我希望教育部的態度要清楚"},{"start":11366.201,"end":11390.821,"text":"到底錢是地方政府出的還是你們出的因為我們知道國教系統有非常多隸屬地方政府我不希望在選舉這一年到時候很多地方政府因為自己不願意編列相關的預算不願意有所承擔要甩鍋丟包回來教育部就如同之前三張EQ一樣所以我先提醒這件事情也期待國教署跟我們辦公室比較明確剛剛署長您所說的五項回覆以上謝謝"},{"start":11391.682,"end":11418.786,"text":"好 接下來那署長暫時再停一下這邊還是跟你有關再來就關於偏鄉師資的部分我們要謝謝部長之前到TFT參加了一個所謂進論式也就是所謂的偏遠地區學校學士候學分班甚至各式各樣課程規劃的進度那當時我們在講說偏遠地區學校的學士候學分班開班很少報名人數也相對少"},{"start":11419.346,"end":11438.872,"text":"可是感謝教育部在去年擴大辦理之後呢目前我們看到開班人數都是過去的二到三倍確實看見實務上的需求也謝謝教育部願意開班那我想問關於今年的部分我們什麼進度的規劃跟過去不一樣的做法或是更積極的回應地方老師的需求這個可不可以請部長來說明一下"},{"start":11439.932,"end":11463.225,"text":"我想我們謝謝委員關心偏鄉的一個教育品質包括師資的來源我們確實在這個偏鄉地區裡邊我們不僅是開學生學問班我們現在還開專班然後這一個用線上的一個甚至這個寒暑假因為我們非常清楚偏鄉的這些老師代理代課老師他們沒有辦法在一般的一個上課日裡邊"},{"start":11464.426,"end":11485.024,"text":"夜間來上課所以我們大概有更多的除了有專班像原住民地區我們開了原住民的一個工會專班像有一些STEM我們也從請師大開這一個公教的這一些STEM的這些專班然後對偏鄉的我們除了有學士或專班以外我們還有"},{"start":11486.245,"end":11509.174,"text":"來自於偏鄉的這個特別對金門馬祖澎湖我們也開專班也用線上的來學習理論課我們基本上鼓勵這個失陪單位盡量用線上的一個課然後實務操作的就利用寒暑假讓這些真正對台灣教育人才培育有熱情的這些年輕老師能夠圓他們的夢也能夠一起來守護台灣的教育"},{"start":11509.414,"end":11528.287,"text":"好 谢谢部长说明的非常清楚确实在去年小教报考人数就变多了那目前我知道可是因为宗教的报考人数仍然寥寥可数我知道教育部今年有放宽说只要四个学期就可以报名可是因为小教现在还是要六个学期我当然知道民间团体有他们的倡议但我想我就简单的说"},{"start":11528.767,"end":11557.094,"text":"请教育部带回去演绎有没有机会小教从六学期一样改成四学期当然我知道你们认为现在小教已经人满为患也许不需要但我想你们还是可以回去考虑一下第二个要问的是部长关于之前部长也非常喜欢非常在意的是教学实作导向的师资培育试办计划我知道你们有计划在推进跟进行我也想要确定今年的进度大方向是不是会后可以给我们一个报告因为时间有限我就不让部长在这里多说可以吗"},{"start":11557.634,"end":11577.585,"text":"好 但是我希望相關的同仁要協助部長積極推進這件事情因為部長也非常在意嘛對 對 對我想這個是非常有價值的我們也看到國際的經驗所以我想它會變成我們另外的一個實施培育的重點也許也比較適合現在現場的食物困境很多如果老師們邊做邊學"},{"start":11579.846,"end":11592.471,"text":"這些年輕畢業的學生他們充滿對教育的熱情數量非常大我們希望他們能夠投入接下來謝謝部長接下來問這個關於9任獎金的部分因為已經開始發放了也謝謝署長之前國教署署長這邊願意放寬認定獎金請領資格可是當我們在細部盤點之後發現9任獎金還是有一些問題"},{"start":11604.355,"end":11629.864,"text":"那我认为应该没有办法在今天质询台上给我回复可是我还是要把问题提出来拜托部长甚至请关心的委员一起来关心来偏乡教育奖金现在发现几个困境来第一个任职的同为偏乡可是他跑到不同学校去了可能没有办法请领第二个任职的同为偏乡可是跑到不同县市去了也没有办法请领第三个现在的状况是这样署长你听听看"},{"start":11630.444,"end":11649.749,"text":"公立學校的附設幼兒園可以支領可是偏鄉的公立幼兒園沒有辦法支領第四個可能是我們武力華委員也會關心的目前有非常多足語的老師還有新著名語言的支援老師他可能長期在一個偏鄉支援這些母語的教學"},{"start":11650.529,"end":11677.757,"text":"但是他可能是因為待課的性質或是原本不在偏鄉條例裡面所以他完全沒有辦法支領這個偏鄉9任獎金我們想要在這個第一線師資匱乏的當下跟署長跟部長反映我們有沒有機會召開相關會議去把這些樣態都盤點完然後有沒有機會在預算可支應的情況下更加的開放讓這些9任的偏鄉老師都可以實質的"},{"start":11679.717,"end":11694.433,"text":"受到這些獎金的鼓勵來 署長謝謝委員關心我想我們目前委員所關心的幾個樣態我們基本上都已經有掌握法律都已經改變了也就是說沒有沒有 部長我剛剛講的都沒有的我剛剛講的就是沒有我才講出來"},{"start":11696.639,"end":11715.089,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛部長的意思是說在部長的理念跟3月5號的文都可以處理但是有一些認定因為在細節的操作面是不是容我把剛剛講的公立幼兒園不是附幼以及剛剛足以老師他的身份認定這會涉及到地方政府可能在認定上他的權限他會認為他有到那麼大嗎這個由我們來跟他開會開完幾個個案之後我們把它變成問題會編就可以全國通用你講到關鍵那問題會編什麼時候要開始修訂"},{"start":11725.064,"end":11744.055,"text":"問題會變現在是逐期可以公佈我們每半個月會公佈一次因為最近這個新制度部長很關心希望能夠盡量照顧多一點的我們的夥伴所以3月5號那個文已經非常的放寬並且授權但是認定上怕地方政府還怕有治案所以我們會定期召開每15天會公佈一個新版的QA"},{"start":11744.895,"end":11773.157,"text":"同時也請副本給舊愛文化委員會所有委員包含辦公室我認為偏鄉老師這些部分非常多委員會關心為什麼要這樣講我們當時立這個9月偏鄉獎金我們到底在意的是穩定師資指的到底是指整體的偏鄉師資還是個別學校當時的版本比較看起來是照顧個別學校但我認為在時過境遷這麼多年之後其實所有整體偏鄉的師資穩定這件事情變得非常非常重要謝謝部長跟署長好最後一個題目"},{"start":11774.578,"end":11798.706,"text":"今年是實驗教育修法三法上路已經十年了那有越來越多的學生走出所謂的主流體制但我認為所有進到所謂實驗教育三法不管是個人自學、機構自學還是團體自學有非常多的困境都已經在十年後開始浮現了我等署長講完我怕部長沒有聽到我講的"},{"start":11799.943,"end":11815.572,"text":"好很多困境浮現包含來第一個很多縣市政府他們本來有很多空出來的教室跟場地應該優先提供給這些自學機構申請但是很多地方政府置之不理他們不友善的不接受這些申請非常可惜再來"},{"start":11816.873,"end":11841.145,"text":"很多地方政府面對不同的機構之間有大小眼我們也不知道為什麼例如說對於公辦公營或是公辦民營完全態度不同接下來就是我們在特教法跟學復法修法完之後有非常多自學機構裡面的老師跟家長遇到孩子沒有特教的需求跟輔導的需求完全沒有辦法在這個體制裡面受到照顧我認為十年前很多人認為走進實驗教育的小孩叫做體制外錯"},{"start":11842.285,"end":11856.657,"text":"我希望從現在開始大家重新去想一個念頭就是實驗教育三法所照顧的都是我們的孩子這些孩子因為有法他們都叫體制內所以認為既然是體制內在十年後的今天我們應該要開啟修法的座談會跟討論"},{"start":11858.258,"end":11878.286,"text":"這個部分我要先請提醒部長我們來看一下實驗教育人數逆勢成長在學生總數5年少了27萬的同時有越來越多人走出校園走到實驗教育三法所照顧的機構裡面這件事情我認為非同小可尤其輔導資源跟特教資源都照顧不了這些小孩"},{"start":11878.846,"end":11889.418,"text":"我認為這是我們要檢討的部分我知道部長今天應該沒有辦法回答那我就簡單說到這邊我希望後續教育部可以開啟修法的討論我們辦公室也會實質的推進想聽一下部長的態度"},{"start":11890.763,"end":11912.333,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心實驗教育三法確實它是一個民主的象徵是沒錯過去就單一的一個思維我們民主本來就是多元所以我們因應這一個所謂的個別差異能夠因材施教我想實驗三法它某種程度上補助等於說在輔助這一個"},{"start":11914.42,"end":11929.959,"text":"应该是说他照顾了不同学习样态的家庭跟孩子的需求能够兼顾到个人需求对而且这个个人需求我认为不再那么个人了你看这个数字就知道其实非常非常的明显接下来这一题我觉得很难但是我要告诉部长"},{"start":11930.279,"end":11959.34,"text":"现在教育部面对的困境是这个就是台语沉浸幼儿园的问题我们来看一下我们发现呢在教育部的很多作为上呢其实非常的消极那我们办公室一直在想啊我们不是只有提出问题我们也很试着很想跟教育部一起努力提出解方那我们就找了课委会来讨论而且请教了现场的专家学者来下一张我们办公室就开了这个座谈会我们邀请了课委会来告诉我们现在呢课委会他们的做法是什么呢来课委会的做法我们来看下一张"},{"start":11960.991,"end":11976.843,"text":"關於教保員的部分呢在幼兒園的部分課委會他們就要求教保員的語言門檻必須要在課語中高級以上能力但是在台語幼兒園完全沒有那在教保員的培訓機制呢課委會有一套機制非常的完整可是我們看到台語的部分完全沒有只有演習"},{"start":11977.743,"end":11998.679,"text":"再來語言陪伴的制度台語的部分是顧問制而且不可以入班可是客委會它從中央到地方都有專業輔導團甚至有客語陪伴員還有教師互助社群再來資訊獲取的管道目前台語幼兒園的老師跟教保員告訴我們分散他們要自己去找可是我們看到客委會非常認真做專屬網站跟一站式的資源"},{"start":11999.139,"end":12021.89,"text":"其實不是只有教育部現在面臨這個困境我們問了原民會跟課委會跟教育部之間你們在協助成立這些所謂的國家語言的學校機制上其實從來沒有一個平台去討論這個事情那如果整體的環境跟有越來越多的家長有意識不論他是希望他的小孩進入所謂課委會這課語的幼兒園還是台語幼兒園甚至我們未來"},{"start":12022.97,"end":12043.379,"text":"在部落裡頭會有非常多原住民語言的幼兒園這些事情如果我們的教育部跟課委會跟園民會沒有一個好的經驗交流甚至成果分享我認為在教育部這邊會依然可能三五年後看到都會是同一個狀況那我們辦公室也做了研究做了多座談所以我想要快速給教育部幾個建議我們辦公室也會持續的追蹤"},{"start":12044.179,"end":12072.956,"text":"第一个我们希望你们积极跟课委会以及有做出成效的原民会还有文化部就国家语言的部分进行经验分享跟交流第二个教育部如果没有中央辅导团以学术研究跟论述作为基底协助开发课程模组教具教材辅导资源我认为现场老师困境很大还有教育部如何跟地方政府专家学者演绎成立地方辅导团还有陪伴员再来台语教保资讯平台相关计划的一站式网站现在依然是没有的讲了这么多"},{"start":12074.437,"end":12089.178,"text":"千頭萬緒我只是要告訴部長我們不是只是來提出問題我們也請教了課委會謝謝課委會還有那個屏東大學的老師給我們非常多好的建議我這邊把這些建議交給部長我想要請教一部積極去研議三個月內給我們規劃報告可以嗎"},{"start":12091.425,"end":12096.449,"text":"這個資料我們可以再送交教育部張屯業提相關報告OK的但是我也讓這個機會跟委員報告我們從去年的9月開始已經透過全國這個22個教育局處所長的一個會議裡面已經有宣示從幼兒園裡面從語言上的一個"},{"start":12109.498,"end":12126.74,"text":"等於說這個社區語言的一個共通性開始這一個不管是台語或者客語或者原住民語就幼兒園裡面它變成一個老師一個很重要的一個跟幼兒的教學裡面很重要的一個語言的一個界面那我們也"},{"start":12127.561,"end":12143.823,"text":"這一個請這一個國教署這個不定期的到各地方學校的幼兒園去訪視希望這一個本土園 國家園的推動能夠從幼兒園就開始 前面來推我知道時間有限 再給我三四秒部長你剛剛講的我完全認同你在局處會議上"},{"start":12144.804,"end":12156.637,"text":"用宣誓的方法可是一旦所有老師要動起來教保員要動起來他就需要我剛講的這些事情他需要教材他需要資源他需要網站他需要陪伴他需要相關的輔導機制協助他去落實部長的宣誓跟交代對嗎所以部長這邊該做的事情我們一起努力"},{"start":12162.403,"end":12184.897,"text":"是的我想這個輔導團裡面包含許多教材的開發我們當然都一直持續在做地方現在也有一定程度的做得非常非常不錯像去年全國舉辦的這個本土語言本土的教材的一個開發我也到現場去看到各縣市其實在這個部分他們還真的是都做得有許多的"},{"start":12185.657,"end":12203.466,"text":"具體的一個成果我想會後我們除了委員的建議我們來深化以外有一些東西我想我也跟我們會後也來跟委員做一個更詳細的報告好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳培雲委員請部長回座接下來有請吳佩奕委員好 謝謝我請教育部鄭部長好 請鄭部長"},{"start":12218.652,"end":12238.179,"text":"委員好好 副長好剛陳培育委員提到這個實驗教育三法上路之後我們要來一個通盤檢討我相當的支持也相當有感因為我過去在擔任市議員的時候就時常跟像我們這種非學型態的實驗教育的團體家長或者學生團體都有他們時常遇到真的很多的這些困擾"},{"start":12238.919,"end":12262.738,"text":"例如說學校裡面跟學校來談場地常常有時候都需要來協助來協調甚至曾經譬如說租金要幫忙負擔土地稅等等的問題那麼像新府資源也是一樣有些學生他們是沒有學籍的或有些是掛在教育局的那在新府資源的使用上面有時候他們就會比較被忽略到所以我覺得確實因為上路已經實務經驗這麼多年了那我們針對學校型態非學型態也好"},{"start":12266.601,"end":12270.402,"text":"就是各方類型的實驗教育的學生我們能夠怎麼樣整體再來提供他們資源跟後盾我覺得真的是可以整體來討論一下那今天呢最主要幾個問題要跟部長討論首先是呢因為前陣子因為林義雄先生過去林齋寫案的事件重新被社會大眾看見那社會上面發起一個叫轉型正義補課潮"},{"start":12290.569,"end":12314.911,"text":"那我收到很多人的反應說很感謝教育部有一個轉型正義的補課專區因為上面的資訊至少國人可以知道說這個資訊是正確的因為現在資訊特別發達也變成說查證也需要花比較多的心力所以知道資訊正確那很多人他是想要認識歷史想要了解歷史有一個管道有一個入口讓他可以入門那大家會自己再去挖掘更多的資料來閱讀"},{"start":12316.092,"end":12331.001,"text":"那麼事實上我們去回顧教育部對轉型正義教育的推動其實一直是關鍵角色為了轉型正義的工程教育是重中之重因為我們要真的去認識歷史我們才能夠反省才能夠學習尊重所以教育部我們從2000年以後開始推動人權教育我們有國家轉型正義教育行動綱領從2023至2026年的同時我們也有教學諮詢網"},{"start":12342.028,"end":12364.514,"text":"我們針對轉型正義的教育人才庫我們也有設置要點這些都是等於是我們轉型正義教育的基礎工程我覺得很重要那也肯定教育部我們也希望可以繼續來做那針對轉型正義補課專區我們目前上線的是兩個單元一個是228一個是湯德章那麼接下來4月7日是郵輪自由日"},{"start":12365.154,"end":12384.306,"text":"言論自由日我們也會有鄭南榮的一個短影音的一個言論自由日那一天會公佈好這個是我們教育部轉型正義補課專心的下一張新的一張的課程那麼未來5月19號也會有5月19號也有再一個課程那麼我們"},{"start":12385.387,"end":12400.28,"text":"就是說我們會針對每一個月裡邊不同的一些不管白色恐怖或者對個人的這個人權上造成了一個傷害我們大概希望說陳某講說自由全然不是自然發生的那歷史"},{"start":12401.101,"end":12415.517,"text":"我們可以原諒但是不能遺忘那我想這一個部分我們也希望因為透過這個短影透過轉型正義的一個更積極前面的推動希望我們國人能夠更珍惜我們的自由台灣的自由跟民主"},{"start":12416.098,"end":12436.251,"text":"是 因為迴響真的相當不錯那我們也需要這樣比較科普性質的教育那就我所知這一次因為是事件引發的所以說第一個課程上線的時候也比較倉促一點所以很感謝我們相關單位我們承辦同仁大家都是全力的在拼啦那我們有沒有針對這一個轉型正義的補課專區有一個中長程的規劃呢"},{"start":12443.103,"end":12468.019,"text":"跟委員報告我們已經排到明年二月也就是說那因為明年剛好二二八又是八十週年就是說我們大概在這個行動綱領裡面到今年第一期結束我們明年事實上會請這個我們朱次長現在會有一個一家從今年開始等於有一個重疊明年又有一個新的四年但是今年成為一家四雖然他是最後一年"},{"start":12468.519,"end":12485.298,"text":"我們有一系列的這些轉型正義的一些課程或者一些不遺餘值的大學裡邊開始今年過去沒有我們今年開始把大學的USR包含大學的教學實驗實踐計畫裡邊已經也都摳"},{"start":12489.623,"end":12510.758,"text":"希望老師在教學創新裡面或者USR大學能夠把這個轉型正義人權教育也都能夠帶進來那目前在USR裡面已經有七所大學提出這樣一個計畫我想從大所接小所裡面結合在地的地方文史跟社會工作者能夠把這些地圖然後"},{"start":12511.378,"end":12526.871,"text":"讓中小學能夠透過他們來協助中小學的學生也都能夠進一步的去理解我們這個歷史好 部長我們很支持你們去推動但你知道我長期關注所以我看了去年12月行政院有一個轉型爭議這個會報會議記錄我們行政院人權處就提出說認為你們的業務繁重"},{"start":12534.077,"end":12559.769,"text":"認為你們的人力是有必要增加的 這個行政院通常都是我們去跟行政院要人力 他說你這太多了 不可以再多了很少行政院叫你們要增加人力所以人力的部分我們有沒有相應的規劃呢謝謝委員關心 確實我們做了非常多 包含教師課程教材的發展包括校長的演習 包括我們看許多的這些轉型正義相關的影片那也邀請行政院的"},{"start":12563.332,"end":12582.209,"text":"這個委員去現場跟我們指導那我們現在也感謝他們看到我們在有限人力做了還蠻積極的所以我們現在大概也跟人事總署人事總署在爭取說希望能夠有人力的調整要去進行那我們也建議"},{"start":12582.85,"end":12603.11,"text":"就是因為我們這一次也有跟像228基金會來合作嘛我們也可以多來增加跟像228紀念館國家人權館這些專案的合作我覺得都很重要然後朱志也是228基金會的董事嘛這個他們都長期在投入了來去善用整合這些資源我想也很重要我們是展現一個態度就是說我們在今年"},{"start":12604.07,"end":12632.313,"text":"在這個月裡面應該上個月我們教育部的部務會議我也親自帶我們所有的一級主管到景美的人權博物館裡面去開部務會議同時也請這個受難者當事人出來解說那我想這也是展現說我們教育部在未來轉型政治跟人權教育這個我們一定會全面的來更積極的來推動"},{"start":12632.813,"end":12637.058,"text":"好那我們也支持教育部繼續來推動這個主持人謝謝那時間不是很夠但是我一定要跟部長討論是專任輔導教師的權益因為黃姐委員在總質詢的時候也有跟部長您討論過那當時這個"},{"start":12649.011,"end":12657.677,"text":"您的回應是說再請地方政府來補貼我認為這是不夠有誠意所以今天還是要討論一下這個因為根據我們學生輔導法我們專輔教師跟專業輔導人力這個當然是守護我們校園心理健康最重要的兩個防線那上一週我們是在審查學生衛生法學校衛生法這時候也有提到專輔人力的議題今天要講的是專輔教師主要就是說因為我們對教師我們有個標準是授課時數"},{"start":12679.691,"end":12698.801,"text":"所以我們可以去衡量去評估說例如他這個有沒有超過業務量啊有沒有超時加急啊等等但是專輔教師他是用個案他是用案量對個案進行處遇嘛那所以等於教育部目前你們對專輔教師的業務你們你們有衡量標準嗎你們衡量標準是什麼"},{"start":12700.882,"end":12722.51,"text":"我們目前其實是沒有標準的所以沒有標準會造成什麼問題你根本看不見專輔教師他的辛勞我連衡量評估的工具都沒有那所以說呢這個目前不管是輔導教師教師團體或家長團體都有提出一個訴求就是說我們的專輔教師能不能夠比照特教"},{"start":12723.47,"end":12732.034,"text":"老師有特教老師有特教家級嘛我們能不能夠有專輔家級這個部分呢我想已經部長已經充分了解這個問題了我們有沒有來開啟一個討論就是說你們找這個專業團體大家來討論說這個到底是要怎麼樣來改善有關專輔教師確實怎麼樣去讓給他們有一個更大的支持我想我們"},{"start":12748.402,"end":12749.505,"text":"我們會來會後會來找相關的包括專業團體我們一起來討論這個要開會我們有沒有一個時間"},{"start":12758.374,"end":12765.117,"text":"近快來兩個月內我們就來開啟這個討論好不好因為你們一定比我們更了解實務上面遇到的困難那這個你要增加加級也好這都是要整體互相來做評估的所以趕快來開啟這個會議的討論那除了加級以外還有一個比較具體的是我們學校的這個輔導主任是不是一定要專輔老師來兼任這個我們國民教育法21條是規定說輔導主任"},{"start":12787.327,"end":12792.312,"text":"是有輔導熱忱及專業智能的教師擔任學生輔導法第九條學校輔導主管依據輔導專業專長者優先任用實際上是你有輔導教師證就可以來擔任輔導主任才對"},{"start":12805.226,"end":12831.644,"text":"那唯一只有在高中我們的高級中等教育法20條裡面有明定說這個主任必須要專輔教師來擔任之好現在問題來了因為我這邊收到了不只一所各縣市都有完全中學來反映因為學校實務狀況很多事這可能處長可能知道他輔導老師可能就只有兩位那你一定要專輔老師來才能擔任輔導主任的話兩個人輪流一直在兼主任等於這個行政職"},{"start":12836.047,"end":12854.377,"text":"那所以他們說我們完全中學我的業務其實包含了國中跟高中那我們的法規的解釋其實就我來看法規解釋你不一定是要比照高中的標準因為他也有國中的業務存在那麼那個完全中學他是不是可以只要是有這個輔導教師證的這個老師就可以來擔任輔導主任這個部長過去有沒有聽聞過這相關的陳情啊"},{"start":12862.421,"end":12880.926,"text":"謝謝委員因為確實這一個問題就剛才委員所說的完全中學我們目前是比照高級中學法的第20條那我們也這個法規會的一個知情裡面大概也都是目前的態度都是採用比照這一個高中的教育法這樣來執行"},{"start":12884.829,"end":12900.046,"text":"這個部長我看過你們所有的會議記錄其實有專家是有提出不同的法律解釋沒有認為說一定要用這個高級中等教育法來解釋所以部長拜託一下因為我覺得這個實務上如果我們可以替他解決這個困擾只要是法規"},{"start":12902.409,"end":12921.562,"text":"可以允許的範圍內甚至我看起來甚至不用修法請你們來討論一下好不好就實務的需求跟法規解釋面來做整體的評估我們希望就我們現在不用修法的階段你可以我們能夠提供給他們幫助的盡量來協助因為真的現場的狀況是負擔相當的大好謝謝部長好謝謝署長好謝謝吳佩儀委員的詢答請部長回座接下來有請郭育晴委員質詢"},{"start":12936.155,"end":12940.321,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請部長好 有請部長"},{"start":12945.762,"end":12966.454,"text":"委員好部長辛苦了那今天其實我還是要針對這個校事會議的部分來提出一些我的看法跟一些問題那我想這個校事會議其實是在我們第一線的老師的現場其實他們也就是因為校事會議的關係那剛剛前面其實我聽了有幾位的委員也特別提到現在其實我們"},{"start":12966.974,"end":12986.705,"text":"老師的部分 校園的部分 其實有一波這個老師要出走潮啊那我想呢 校士會議可能也佔了很大的一個重要的一個原因那我先請教一下這個部長我們之前其實當然我們1月12號的時候 其實我也對外公佈這個校士會議的部分我們怎麼樣來做這個最好的一個補救的一個方式"},{"start":12987.225,"end":13009.967,"text":"就是让老师不要在校园当中除了教学以外还有人心惶惶面对自己被调查这样子的一个危机那当时其实我们也说了我们会删除这个匿名检举弹书那我相信这个应该就可以解决蛮大的一个部分就是被滥诉的一个就是匿名滥诉的这样子一个状况那第二个其实之前我多次的在咨询我相信我是第一个提到这个消失会议的人"},{"start":13010.447,"end":13037.455,"text":"那當然我也多次的建議就是教育部我們是不是在這個進入校事會議之前我們會有一個分流也就是分級的一個機制那這個部分呢我想問一下就是教育部目前有沒有收到來自校園方面他們做了這樣子的一個處理那效果或成效又如何這個分流的機制就是在進入校事會議之前我們先把有一些根本就是溝通上的一個問題我是現場可以解決的不需要再走所謂的校事會議的程序這個部分有沒有收到一些回饋"},{"start":13039.159,"end":13053.988,"text":"跟委員報告到這個2月28號等於說今年1月12到2月28我們收到的全國有86案那麼受理的才只有等於說在事前就分流了大概就只有"},{"start":13054.528,"end":13083.701,"text":"二十二案其他就變成不受理或者轉到考二案他確實達到了已經開始有分流了好那我想要再回到這個所謂的分流有所謂的這個分流的一個這樣子的一個算是方法就是在校園當中已經開始實行了那他的確也出現了一些效果但是我想要問的是這個誰來決定分流到底是停留在我只是溝通我在學校端我就可以解決然後接著下來我可能有一些部分我可能要"},{"start":13084.341,"end":13107.754,"text":"往所謂的校士會議前進這個分流的組成的判定的團體或者是組織是由校方的人員呢還是由老師還是由所謂的這個家長還是由外部的一些專業的這個學者或者是專家這個分流的這個制度根文報告在基本上就是這一個組成是校長老師代表"},{"start":13108.474,"end":13124.207,"text":"家長代表還有社會公正人士但是校長是不投票的所以等於就是由教師代表家長代表跟社會公正人士他們取得一些共識之後然後再回來就是校長來做裁定對不對應該是這樣子他們就做了一個決定校長基本上就在主持這個會議讓他能夠順暢"},{"start":13126.209,"end":13140.46,"text":"為什麼我今天特別提到這個問題這個看似我們針對所謂的這個消失會議的這個前端的部分分流的一個部分看似我們好像還蠻多元的然後還蠻完整的但是問題是會不會有可能成為"},{"start":13141.661,"end":13164.134,"text":"不是沒有有沒有專業的問題是誰要不要負責判斷的這個問題我為什麼要這麼講那我以日本來做這樣子的一個例子日本在2020年其實他們就已經提出了所謂的這個校園律師這樣子的一個機制那校園律師的一個存在其實不只是存在於校園當中他可以處理包含學生被霸凌或者是師生"},{"start":13165.034,"end":13182.512,"text":"事件的一些关系等等他做一些比较正确而且法律上的一个专业的一个判断那回到我们现在讲的所谓的校事会议的前端我们的分歧的一个机制那我想呢是由法律的专业来主导这个前端的一个判断它是一个非常重要的一个缓冲同时它也会避免"},{"start":13183.092,"end":13207.347,"text":"我想避免是什麼避免行政最後來主導這個判斷也就是說我把這些專業意見變成只是其中的一個參考而已但是在日本他們是有這樣子的一個所謂的校園律師我們有沒有可能往這個方向來做這樣子的一個考量也就是說當一個案件進來的時候其實在台灣剛剛我們講到台灣的校園我們是有家長代表我們可能有學生代表"},{"start":13207.947,"end":13227.893,"text":"家長代表我們有這個教師代表然後再來可能有行政人員然後最後這個校長他是沒有投票的一個權利社會公正是訓練過是外界的公正那只要有爭議只要碰到如果這個所謂的案例他是有爭議的會不會我們剛剛講的沒有一個人想要當壞人啊"},{"start":13229.782,"end":13246.013,"text":"你懂我意思嗎就沒有一個人想要當壞人沒有人想當壞人的時候他沒有人願意去承擔說啊這個所謂的這個消失會議我可能就不受理那最後我們大家都沒有辦法決定好那就只好送消失會議會不會有可能這樣的一個狀況當然有時候土耳不足以置信當然"},{"start":13247.174,"end":13267.252,"text":"有沒有可能我當然是有可能但是我們至少在程序比如說他是匿名投票然後這個校外的公證人士當然他有可能有法律專業背景的或者因為這個事件裡面他們可能是走這個心理學家或者這個兒童社工人士等等的這些"},{"start":13267.432,"end":13291.888,"text":"因為今天這個時間關係我為什麼會特別提到就是說我們是不是可以來參考日本他們的一個做法也就是說我們傾向程序化的處理不要只是為了自保而已而是這個程序化之前的這個分級的處理我們是不是可以給一個所謂的這個第三方最公正的一個單位這個人可能就是所謂有律師背景我們來做所謂的這個比照"},{"start":13292.708,"end":13309.766,"text":"如果是法律問題進入程序如果只是溝通問題我們可以現場來做處理我們到進入實時的審查到那個第二個階段那個所謂的真正認定他可能會可能會觸及到這個解聘不信任的這些但通常各個學校都會有法律的專家進來好"},{"start":13311.348,"end":13325.264,"text":"但是我剛剛講了法律的專家進來他只是其中的一環的其中的一個人但是其實我們看到日本他們是把法律的專家是守在整個所有的制度或所有的機制的最前面這個詞我們也可以來做一個參考好不好"},{"start":13326.345,"end":13351.975,"text":"好那接下來第二個問題其實我剛剛有特別提到我們的老師出走潮那現在其實關於這個國中小的一個教師離職的人數其實算是最多的那麼從這個109年的一個資料到113年從原本的2249人包含這些離職啦退休啦或者是所謂的這個留庭的這個人數從2000多人已經暴增到"},{"start":13352.575,"end":13373.562,"text":"五千零二十四人五年之內其實已經高達了百分之一百二十三那這個其實等於是翻倍的在流失啊就是老師的這樣子的一個人才是翻倍的在流失那尤其是中間的四十歲到五十歲這最重要的中生代的一個教師他是校園最重要的一個主幹但"},{"start":13374.162,"end":13389.472,"text":"這群人他們最不想要留在校園這是一個非常大的一個隱憂再來現在連心血都不願意進來了為什麼心血不願意進來因為連同公費生可能有15%他說我真的寧可賠錢我也要解約要走人好那這個也是隱憂再來我們調查過了這個"},{"start":13392.274,"end":13417.735,"text":"這是翻轉教育他們說了這個校園當中將近有四成的老師考慮在三年之內要離職我們有沒有掌握到底是什麼原因留不住人是因為我們的整個所有的薪資的結構還是有一個最重要的原因還是剛剛我提到的所謂的校士的會議我們不能在一個已經在漏水的桶子裡面我說沒關係我就一直加水加水加水他還在漏啊"},{"start":13418.095,"end":13442.655,"text":"如果沒有找到真正的原因我們怎麼補足這一塊因為最終受影響的還是學生的受教權這個部分謝謝委員提醒確實老師的工作滿意度是很重要關係到我們台灣的一個教育品質那我們事實上從實施因為譬如說我們實施在從民國五十七年改制為國中每三十年"},{"start":13444.008,"end":13461.92,"text":"大概一個世代退休潮那當然隨著你看五十七年到八十七年到一一七理論上他就是當然他可能會是一個世代交替他可能會是一個剛好在這幾年因為隨著我們科技產業的犀利也可能是一個原因另外"},{"start":13463.859,"end":13492.085,"text":"所以剛剛其實部長有講到可能可能可能可是問題是我希望教育部要做到的因為我們畢竟是教育部我們是最高的主管機關這個部分如果我們沒有辦法掌握真正學校校園失資流失的真正的關鍵的原因我們找不到方法如果找不到方法我們有再好的一些政策其實我們真的都應該認為這個是一個非常重要的一個危機"},{"start":13492.845,"end":13513.332,"text":"是專業的一個立場我的很清楚我們在師培裡邊我們功一定要大於求那至於地方國民教育本來是地方他應該他是地方前線嘛老師校長都是他們在聘學校的經理人都是來自地方前線我們希望地方也能夠"},{"start":13517.959,"end":13531.745,"text":"我們都知道我們公願意大於求但重點是很多好幾招之後他還是招不滿我想我的心情跟委員是一樣"},{"start":13533.406,"end":13557.375,"text":"國民教育地方他不能兩手一攤就說我聘不到老師我希望我們來做一個真正的現場的盤點來真的找出到底這些老師留不住的真正的原因到底在哪裡然後我們才能夠更具體這個部分是不是有一些比較施設師跟國教署也一直在這一個部分委託學者專家在做"},{"start":13558.755,"end":13576.585,"text":"一系列的一些計畫研究在了解我們真正能夠掌控我想老師的專業跟基石是國家最重要的一個競爭力的存在我完全同意 完全同意委員那最後請主席再給我一點時間還有第三個問題然後我想這個部分我們如果有一些比較進程的一些報告再提供給我辦公室我們真的來正視這樣子的一個問題好嗎好"},{"start":13578.226,"end":13594.697,"text":"然後再來第三個問題我想大家都知道現在不管是假訊息也好然後AI是日新月異啊然後再加上所謂的認知作戰是越來越嚴重了但是在我們的教育體系當中我們是不是還停留在教學生不要亂信所謂的假訊息這樣子一個層次而已剛剛"},{"start":13595.838,"end":13611.005,"text":"聽到就是我們的這個AI立委我們的葛羅軍委員他有特別提到芬蘭那我也想要用芬蘭來做這樣子的一個例子來說明那我想這個芬蘭他們是從3歲到10歲就已經開始在教孩子們什麼叫做"},{"start":13612.105,"end":13632.993,"text":"識讀的能力那他們甚至在語言的課程當中已經開始在辨識所謂的訊息的來源那麼他們在社會課程當中已經開始在判讀所謂的公共的議題甚至在數位科的這個教學的方面他們已經開始在用演算法跟假訊息這樣子的一個操作在作為教育了所以為什麼這個芬蘭從這個如果我沒記錯從2018年到2023年"},{"start":13638.055,"end":13654.835,"text":"他一直是所謂的嗜讀教育整個所有的評比的第一名這是在歐洲但是除了在歐洲德國也開始做了英國也開始做了連我們知道的南韓也開始做了韓國也開始做了那我想呢現在如果說大家都已經全世界都已經"},{"start":13655.896,"end":13680.589,"text":"意識到所謂的嗜讀的教育嗜讀的認知的問題其實是媒體嗜讀非常非常重要的問題我們如果還只是停留在分散在各科流於形式只是在告訴大家說這個可能是假的這個可能是真的但是我們沒有統一或者是系統性的不管是師培也好或者是教學的資源的支柱也好讓老師只是輕輕的帶過我想這個問題會非常非常的嚴重我們有沒有"},{"start":13685.612,"end":13703.411,"text":"我想這所謂的這個媒體的試讀它不是選修而是真的從小現在開始我們就應該要有一個整合性的一個這樣子的一個把中小學把媒體試讀這樣子的一個科學能夠放進去我們的課綱當中我們有沒有這樣子一個計畫"},{"start":13705.512,"end":13723.98,"text":"最近確實我們規劃了一個AI人才這個方舟計畫裡邊本來媒體試讀我們就一直在從小學就前面在做包含我們這一個終身教育師他也在這個社大裡邊社區大學裡邊樂齡裡邊也都有在教"},{"start":13724.38,"end":13748.524,"text":"沒有我不是在講外面我是在講學校啊我是在講中小學啊學校就有開始在做那這個剛才所講的是AI人才方舟計畫裡面媒體試圖它也是一個重點也是我們一個計畫裡面我想我提醒教育部我們要把這個部分當成是國家級的基礎工程來做為什麼我要這麼說因為它其實跟我們的國家安全有分別"},{"start":13748.524,"end":13771.791,"text":"非常大的一個關係如果孩子們他沒有從小有這樣子的一個觀念其實他就是國安非常嚴重的一個破口我們一定要我們一定要把它當成一個非常重要的正式來做看怎麼樣把所謂的這個媒體嗜讀的一個教育正式納入國中小的一個階段讓每一個孩子都知道我要怎麼樣在日新月異的AI"},{"start":13772.751,"end":13784.16,"text":"整個所有都有可能因為一個指令就可能變成一個假訊息這樣子的一個充斥的一個環境當中能夠找到自己能夠自我判斷媒體識讀的一個能力好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":13786.513,"end":13807.909,"text":"好 谢谢郭玉晴委员请部长回座主席在这边先宣告那个叶元之委员发言前我先有一件事要说明今天有一个临时提案一案那在武力华委员咨询完毕之后我们要进行处理好 现在有请叶元之委员询答请"},{"start":13817.591,"end":13843.878,"text":"主席好麻煩請教育部長謝謝好有請曾部長委員好部長好因為今天大家討論這個教師法其實最終目的我覺得還是要給老師一定的尊重要改善對老師的不友善的環境剛剛大家都談很多現在少事化真的非常嚴重我真是希望教育部可以很正視這個問題因為教育是國家的根本"},{"start":13844.158,"end":13870.983,"text":"如果連老師都不願意投入這一個工作的話那以後誰來教育學生這其實是雙輸的局面教育部常常講說地方怎麼樣 地方怎麼樣但教育部總是教育的最高單位嘛當然希望你多做一些事情包括我們都希望跟你一起來討論看怎麼樣讓教育更好那我昨天總諮詢也跟卓文泰院長跟部長很深入的討論有關於校園安全的問題基本上我覺得校園安全這個議題"},{"start":13872.003,"end":13888.281,"text":"也會影響到老師願不願意留在這個職場的動機就像昨天卓榮泰院長他我也是很感謝他他有肯定我因為想要解決這個校園安全的問題所以呢提了一個安心上學法案針對那些"},{"start":13889.162,"end":13918.07,"text":"常常帶蝴蝶刀上課啊然後那種動不動就拿可能會有疑慮他也可能拿刀刺人的啊或者是拿鋁棒敲人的啊這種背後有乾哥乾姐的這種學生然後希望能夠由教育部可以設立一個專屬的學校然後由一些教育很有理念的專業團體來設立比如說以人為本然後比如說那個愛德教育正向管教然後讓原本的學校的師生可以得到喘息好好讀書啦這個昨天院長他說他有認同我這個大方向"},{"start":13918.59,"end":13940.209,"text":"不過昨天院長講了一句話在網路上有一些老師也有意見因為院長說如果遇到那些會帶刀上課的學生那老師跟行政人員就要有所處置啊但是他講這句話是完全不了解教學現場因為在現在教學情況之下如果你說要一般的行政人員跟老師面對這種學生他要怎麼處理他沒有能力處理啊"},{"start":13940.816,"end":13969.537,"text":"所以教育部要針對這件事情我覺得要提出一個方案出來那我覺得既然院長他肯定我的立法方向那接下來細節部分我們是不是可以真的非常認真我們上次有開過公聽會但是部長沒有來啦是不是可以找一個時間跟請部長然後部長可以找一些相關的人我們一起就是不一定要利用這個委員會的時間我們可以很認真地來討論一下細節因為他可能牽涉到比較深入的討論不知道部長願意嗎"},{"start":13971.8,"end":13985.258,"text":"怎麼樣讓學校更友善更安全讓老師教學能夠安心學生學習放心家長也能夠放心小孩子在學校學習我想這個方向我們是一定願意來努力的"},{"start":13988.783,"end":13993.067,"text":"我是說既然院長有肯定我們的立法方向的話那我們就我們來找一個時間來討論一下那個細節啦因為我們委員會職群時間也不多啦也沒辦法很認真進入細節我都約你啊我們再找一個時間來討論因為確實是要有另外的一個時間來討論這個好"},{"start":14009.58,"end":14036.065,"text":"我來提一下因為我之前我在上個會期我有提到一個事情也是跟老師的待遇跟尊重老師有關的因為我先肯定一下教育部把老師的終點費提高了那這個是肯定當然這第一步我們覺得不夠但是可以再多一點可是至少已經跨出第一步但是因為它反映了一個狀況就是說如果學校的老師他如果不是導師也不是行政人員他也不是終點老師的話其實對這些老師來講"},{"start":14038.485,"end":14065.732,"text":"教育部現在的做法對他們來說是沒有差的反而是讓他們多付出為什麼呢因為他們如果請假一般老師請假的待課費用是老師自己出嘛那所以他出的待課費用反而提高所以像一群就是比如說他可能是科人老師在教育部的這一波的待遇的調整他們其實沒有受惠其實是沒有受惠反而多付出這個部長我跟您提過不知道您還記得嗎"},{"start":14067.045,"end":14087.291,"text":"你記得嗎?那當時我是不知道說教育部要怎麼去解決這個問題啦針對我剛剛提到那一群老師,但是我有提一個建議我說,不然的話是不是可以減老師的終點開始做起因為現在國小是20個終點,國中18個終點,高中16個終點如果讓所有的老師都可以減兩個終點的話他第一個,因為108課綱關係老師其實負擔也蠻重的"},{"start":14093.713,"end":14114.763,"text":"讓他撿終點 如果他願意撿終點 那他可以多一點時間去備課或去跟學生相處教學之類的第二個 部長可能會講說 那撿終點的話 那其他的課誰要來教如果找得到就可以讓其他人來教那如果找不到的話呢 校內因為撿了終點之後假設由原來的校內老師來上這些課的話"},{"start":14116.644,"end":14138.005,"text":"那這些老師他就可以得到額外的終點費那他如果得到額外的終點費那他等於是這一次教育部調漲的終點費對他來說就有幫助他等於是有點變相加薪那我上個會期提的時候幾個月已經隔很多個月了當時我跟部長講說其實幫你算過了全國大概增加二十幾億啦"},{"start":14139.187,"end":14154.542,"text":"這個錢真的對教育部來說不是一個大錢可是你至少可以讓老師得到一個基本尊重而且至少讓所有的老師不管他是不是導師或者是行政人員那他都可以在薪資上面有增加一些其實也增加不多但是這就是有增加到嘛"},{"start":14156.003,"end":14168.448,"text":"那時候我不知道部長你好像是說要研議一下有好幾個月了我不知道部長研議的怎麼樣報告因為它涉及到地方的一個教育前線地方自治的一個前線不會啊你去談啊國民教育沒有部長對不起我要跟你溝通一個觀念"},{"start":14171.687,"end":14189.897,"text":"教育雖然說國民教育簽到地方但教育部是最高的主管機關我來今天這邊跟你討論如果你認為做這件事情對教育是有幫助那你教育部可以去跟地方去談啊那你開會了嗎我已經講幾個月了嘛那你去找了嗎你找了嗎會議紀錄給我啊"},{"start":14191.818,"end":14212.051,"text":"這是上個會期跟您說的啊那如果每一次跟你說你提的都是說那地方的事然後沒有任何的動作那請問一下那部長你是在所以教育都跟你無關嘛你能推就推嗎這是幾個月前就跟你講了嘛你說這地方的事請問一下教育部有沒有找地方政府來討論過有沒有國教署署長"},{"start":14213.376,"end":14239.743,"text":"跟委員報告一下剛剛專業委員有問到類似您的問題行政減量的同時把這個一般老師柯恩老師有沒有機會給他加薪這個有列在我們這一次在四月份跟地方政府談的議題裡面我上個 不好意思署長上個會期就講了上個會期就講了然後呢其實教育部你也可以編這個錢嘛你們對於高教我上次就講了嘛高教那時候特別預算送過來就是幾百億"},{"start":14240.823,"end":14265.266,"text":"就覺得高教 但我覺得我們也都支持高教啊那高教幾百億 你覺得不編這幾百億高教的韌性會有問題那現在大家今天討論的主題就是怎麼面臨少師化嘛剛剛那麼多的委員都有提到我的這個方案還增加二十幾億然後可以讓一般的老師他不兼行政 沒有當導師他也可以透過減終點的方式得到一點加薪"},{"start":14266.687,"end":14286.48,"text":"這全國大概就是二三十億然後你就是做不到這個地方的事然後幾個月前跟你們講你說那個地方那你也沒有找地方啊這是全國的嘛撿終點難道是台北市的事嗎是新北市的事嗎要撿當然全國一起撿啊這也是可以全國一體試用啊為什麼教育部不願意呢所以委員我問部長"},{"start":14287.912,"end":14307.363,"text":"沒有 委員到底要剪幾小兩個終點我剛講了嘛這個跟地方當然 我們還是那你請問一下你去那你去跟他們討論沒那現在剛才署長已經有跟你報告說我們4月已經把4月我是上個會期講的你那時候說要研議結果你現在因為我來這邊問了所以你跟我說4月"},{"start":14309.008,"end":14332.611,"text":"那我沒有問就8月啦我再沒有問就12月啦跟委員報告你不要大聲啦不是大聲跟大聲小聲什麼關係那我跟部長報告你回答問題不要那麼蠻憨我沒有蠻憨你如果說要來站態度的話要站態度大家一起來站啊我也是就事論事我們尊重地方也跟地方協調希望有一個共通的但是你沒有做"},{"start":14333.464,"end":14344.256,"text":"你到現在為止都沒有做做得比較慢是這樣沒有錯嗎好啦你要來站態度啦我不要大聲啦那你可不可以積極"},{"start":14345.421,"end":14370.242,"text":"可以啊你可以做一個積極的教育部長嗎你可以做一個面對問題解決問題然後針對教育困境提出方案的部長嗎我是一個非常積極的教育部長喔 是自我感覺良好阿偉我可不可以補充一下因為你那時候提的時候我們是提用12月31號那個方案已經先做了一波現在地方政府要聯繫12月31號是什麼方案加了那三項加薪"},{"start":14371.582,"end":14391.908,"text":"我是上個會期提出來因為三項加薪衍生出來的問題就是一般老師他的待課費用增加如果他不是行政職不是導師等於是這波加薪對他沒有幫助但反而是付出更多成本這個是上個會議講不是12月底的方案我們是12月底宣布那個方案所以您提的時候不是因應"},{"start":14392.668,"end":14417.251,"text":"那個三項加薪三項加薪是在1月份你又在跟我提過說能不能夠也考慮我跟委員回報說這一個因為涉及到地方政府容我在最近一次通盤性的演繹中一起來規劃因為這個要由剛剛委員講的你說的減兩截地方政府在12月他們已經花了大概21億是不是容我在跟地方政府溝通啦好不好什麼時候"},{"start":14417.731,"end":14443.056,"text":"什麼時候 那我們訂一個日期出來好不好剛剛有講到四月中以前四月中會完成溝通是不是會完成溝通 第一次溝通因為這會涉及到五項方案剛剛跟陳培英委員講到五項其中有含一項您提到的這一類要不要用減中這一類思考讓老師行政減量但恐怕沒有辦法減但有點實質加薪這些都是我們的規劃可是持續上跟委員再補充一下"},{"start":14443.676,"end":14468.908,"text":"剛剛的時序是不是這個樣子謝謝四月是不是四月是不是對好那到時候我四月再來問再來我再請教一下因為最近學測開始放榜嘛那我這邊有接到一些學生的抱怨也反映給部長署長知道因為如果要申請用學測要申請入學是不是要準備學期歷程檔案對吧要準備學期歷程檔案嘛那結果呢"},{"start":14470.922,"end":14494.317,"text":"學測其實說考得也不錯啦但是可能因為有些學校要入學他有一個門檻嘛比如國文加社會要達到幾分或者是哪一科加哪一科要幾分可是有時候就差一分兩分他就沒有辦法去申請他理想的學校但是他的學習歷程檔案已經做一大堆所以學生就在抱怨那為什麼既然我沒有資格沒有機會去申請這些學校為什麼要做這些學習歷程檔案呢"},{"start":14495.077,"end":14519.15,"text":"那以前的做法在108課綱之前的做法是說申請學校就是你如果達到申請那間學校的標準的時候給你幾個月讓你去準備備審資料以前的做法是這樣可是後來把它改成說有一些可能教育專家吧認為說那這樣的學生壓力太大要他在兩三個月之內就要準備那麼多資料那乾脆就讓他高一就開始"},{"start":14519.946,"end":14544.344,"text":"高一就開始結果反而就造成我剛剛講的那個狀況那我再提一個數據啦我相信教育部應該很清楚學習歷程檔案現在越來越大家不想教最新的數據學習成果的未提交比例都接近五成了在高一的時候高一喔高一還是應該是比較聽話的時候剛進到這個環境還願意配合這個體制到高三可能七成多不想教啊"},{"start":14545.342,"end":14570.442,"text":"所以這個學期歷程檔案真的是應該到了檢討的時候他是不是真的有必要讓學生做這件事情不僅是對很多人覺得白費時間願意準備的白費時間然後很多人是乾脆不理那請問一下這個有達到當初你想要做學期歷程檔案的目的嗎部長因為這個跟你也沒關係啦我覺得大家也要就事問事因為這個不是你推的"},{"start":14571.055,"end":14592.141,"text":"但是既然在這個位置上面假設其他人推的東西遇到了問題那是不是由你來解決那你也是功德一件嗎跟委員報告確實我們現在也看到因為少子化以後我們大學供給量遠大於需求量所以有一定的一個程度委員剛才也提到了就是說他不需要靠"},{"start":14593.171,"end":14621.16,"text":"那个学习历程档案他就可以进入到大学我们现在已经折成这个大学入学考试这个委员会跟高中端做一个针对这个学习历程档案在政策上做一个认真的一个讨论看到底要有怎么样的一个因应与时俱进的一个方法简单来讲比如说如果有一些大学他事实上他就从不管申请申请入学或者特殊选材里边"},{"start":14622.369,"end":14647.284,"text":"或者繁星他已經不需要用到或者有一些大學他需要真正去看學生的一個學習歷程檔案我們還是希望認真的來思考這個學習歷程檔案對他們的選材跟學生的一個未來的發展上搭的一個價值性因為現在是多元入學啦有的入學方式本來就不用學習歷程檔案嘛比如你考分科就不用學習歷程檔案啦我現在是針對"},{"start":14649.705,"end":14668.293,"text":"申請入學的部分嘛學測加上學習證檔案的部分嘛那這個部分很多人認為說也不需要嘛然後還有你會造成學生的負擔嘛他高一高二就開始做對 高一高二就開始做結果他因為學測沒考好就全部都白做啦那為什麼不能恢復像以前一樣"},{"start":14669.433,"end":14692.672,"text":"就是說他要申請再備審資料就好為什麼要強迫他們高一高二就要做那當然你們會講說什麼高一高二就可以來做的話校園什麼什麼自主探索啊什麼那你們去評估一下他的成效呢那這個其實也有對老師增加負擔嘛因為學生要做要上傳老師也要看所以如果一件事情大家都認為說他沒有達到你當初設定的目標"},{"start":14693.553,"end":14701.919,"text":"反而製造一些困擾的時候對老師、對學生都有困擾的時候那這個東西還有必要持續下去嗎?我現在是講這件事情好不好,那一樣啦這個學紀念檔案"},{"start":14709.757,"end":14728.843,"text":"這個每次講都說會思考會研議會什麼我們壓一個日期好不好你是不是可以在什麼時間點把你們的決定或者是怎麼改良要繼續還是怎麼做給大家一個報告好不好各位委員報告針對這個學習歷程檔案其實我們每個月都有召開所謂的剛海部長所說的考照聯動小組的檢討"},{"start":14730.223,"end":14756.732,"text":"但是在裡面還沒有形成一個比較完善還是有人認為說根據108課綱還是要讓學生提報這個所謂的學習歷程檔案但是也有部分的學者專家就如同委員剛才所說的可以做一些調整跟改變那雙方還沒有具體的共識這個我們會持續的市長我們不能等了啦如果要等到全世界人大家意見都一致的話那這個事情可能118課綱都出來了啦"},{"start":14759.413,"end":14779.422,"text":"你壓一個日期就決定嘛利大於弊還怎麼樣就要做一個決定的不是讓他一直拖啦當然你們的感覺都是一動不如一進嘛可是現在這個問題衍生出來很多人在抱怨嘛你要做一個決斷嘛那你如果認為說這個東西好要繼續你也跟社會大眾公佈一下啊你壓一個日期沒關係壓一個日期三個月內"},{"start":14783.224,"end":14803.482,"text":"利弊分析提供給那個 利弊分析之外要告訴大家說怎麼做啦好不好 具體的做法啦好不好 具體的做法啦 好 謝謝好 是葉元之委員 部長署長請回座接下來有請吳立華召委"},{"start":14810.596,"end":14836.742,"text":"謝謝主席有請鄭部長還有袁明慧好有請鄭部長袁明慧委員好部長好辛苦了部長我不曉得您知不知道原住民的人口目前佔全國總數"},{"start":14839.997,"end":14855.796,"text":"的比例你知道嗎不到3%這是很聰明的回答那我跟部長來說明其實在我們看那個數據2004年的時候"},{"start":14858.955,"end":14862.596,"text":"我们全国人数有2269万人到了2013年2337万人但是2026年呢下滑到2328万人"},{"start":14874.54,"end":14894.498,"text":"相对的我们来看原住民的人口数他从44.3万爬升到53.2万再爬升到现在的62.9万那如果以比例来看的话呢在2004年到现在2026年他从1.9%"},{"start":14897.16,"end":14918.599,"text":"來到2.2%再來到現在的2.7%所以剛才的部長的回答是非常有智慧的3%以下那我覺得部長如果您看到這樣的數據你會不會覺得原住民沒有少子化的現象對國家很有貢獻部長您覺得如何"},{"start":14923.942,"end":14948.651,"text":"我想原住民的這些族群事實上在我心目中充滿創意而且才華橫溢我有許多同學他們就展現這樣的不管從藝術或者從文學從社會觀有很多另外我們也看到台灣現在"},{"start":14950.131,"end":14977.678,"text":"有一定比例的我們在所謂的在世界上看到台灣的貢獻台灣之光事實上也是來自於我們原住民並且包含經典賽包含許多的這些國際的運動這個競技上的一些我們光是看每一次出國比賽的棒球隊大概都有一半50%的比例是原住民所以確實很有貢獻您提到如果101大樓"},{"start":14980.701,"end":14994.832,"text":"雖然不是原住民去攀登的但是101大樓是很多原住民去蓋的甚至是目前勞動部統計全國前五大的缺工行業"},{"start":14996.073,"end":15022.07,"text":"恰恰是原住民的前五大投入的行业所以没有人要做的都是原住民在做确实对我们这个国家贡献很大但是我们要靠教育翻身所以在我们的原教法的第十一条特别这样子写着中央政府因宽列预算专款办理原住民主教育其比率"},{"start":15022.87,"end":15040.496,"text":"合计不得少于中央教育主管机关预算总额1.9%并依其需求逐年成长这个是2004年的法条所以呢在2013年的时候呢我们把它修到了2.2%"},{"start":15043.557,"end":15061.886,"text":"這個是10年的一個調整但是又過了13年到現在又時隔13年我們的比例又來到了2.7%想要了解一下部長您覺得在您的任內該不該做這樣的調整"},{"start":15063.612,"end":15079.525,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心原住民的許多的教育的一些經費那確實我們這些年在根據法律上的一個編制我們以15年來講已經到2.54那如果說人口比例好像又似乎稍微"},{"start":15080.665,"end":15107.887,"text":"少了一點但是怎麼樣對原住民教育投入更多的一些資源包括對原住民人才的培育我想這教育部基本立場跟委員是一致的好謝謝但我也想聽一聽因為我知道原民會在這一路上應該都是教文處在負責這個業務那想聽一下表示一下意見原民會的意見好謝謝委員對我們原住民族孩子的關心我想"},{"start":15108.867,"end":15127.859,"text":"原教堂規定的原住民教育的總經費的1.9%是13年前修法的時候所訂定不過我們這幾年跟教育部合作已經把我們的年度預算的編列已經達到了2.54 已經遠超過法律規定的比例了那我想"},{"start":15129.088,"end":15149.637,"text":"要在法定的修法裡面去把這個比例再提升我們認為目前的現狀是已經有達到這樣的一個實際的需求不過我要提醒的是說因為從去年那個平埔族群身份法通過之後未來今年度開始會有很多很多的平埔族群會回到原住民族的家庭所以"},{"start":15150.037,"end":15172.519,"text":"未來原住民的教育的預算不能以現在的人口數來算應該是要再考慮未來平衡處境加入之後會有更多的需求會加進來這個是可能我們跟教育部一起要再來思考的好 謝謝原民會的一個回應因為我們希望可以開始啟動原教法第11條的修正"},{"start":15173.3,"end":15201.403,"text":"因為也已經隔很久人口比例呢也往上升那更重要的是我們從目前高教原住民的出在學率跟全體高教生的出在學率那個是斷崖式的差距將近30%所以呢我覺得在這個部分需要更多的教育經費來協助我們的原住民的學生那我也謝謝部長長期以來去肯定這樣的做法"},{"start":15201.863,"end":15230.022,"text":"那接下來就是想要提到的就是為什麼我們需要更多的經費就像陳培宇委員剛剛講的實驗三法施行也已經十年了那也需要去做一些討論所以可能會辦公聽會那原住民的部分原住民實驗學校很多也都已經走了一段時間他們也很迷惘不知道下一步何去何從"},{"start":15230.822,"end":15254.468,"text":"那甚至是原住民族學校法被明定在原教法裡面是要定定的執法可是時至今日大家對於什麼是原住民族學校也沒有想法 沒有共識所以也謝謝原民會已經編列經費開始做事辦但是這些都很需要更多的原住民的教育經費來支撐所以在這個部分就特別的要請部長來支持"},{"start":15258.749,"end":15279.176,"text":"那因為今天也排了一個就是關於教師法第25條的一個審查那這個是源自於這些年發生了一件事因為109年修訂的這個教師解聘辦法就是有了校事會議這個名稱校園事件處理法"},{"start":15282.637,"end":15308.488,"text":"那麼到了112年的時候呢為了要說避免同一個事件重複的調查不同的機制運作有不同的調查結果本來是好意啦所以希望把性別事件以外的所有失對生的違法事件全部都整合到這個校事會議裡面結果沒有想到美意不成反而變成一場夢魘"},{"start":15310.469,"end":15333.115,"text":"那我們可以看到我們也有請教育部幫我們做統計才實施校事會議的這樣的一個整合型結果短短一年發現原來80%的投訴案件是不成立的而且成立的當中呢其實只有50%是需要申借的那其他呢"},{"start":15333.815,"end":15362.13,"text":"造成我們老師這麼樣的一個動盪所以在這邊我們就是要提到說我們必須要把老師的尊嚴找回來那我也知道部長您上任以來其實我覺得啦其實你的回應是算不錯的當我們說要啟動校事會議的討論其實我們也討論了而且1月也已經公告新的包括分流包括"},{"start":15362.87,"end":15371.638,"text":"不處理匿名的包括要怎麼樣去新增輔佐的機制等等但是我想要請教一下部長"},{"start":15372.779,"end":15398.622,"text":"因為還是有人喊廢除校事會議還是有人這樣喊雖然我們覺得這樣的一個修訂已經回到112年之前原來的做法但是仍有人發出了廢除校事會議這樣的聲音所以我想跟部長請示一下 請教一下如果明年的1月"},{"start":15399.483,"end":15418.464,"text":"我們再來統計從1月新實施的這個辦法我們希望明年的1月看到實施的一個結果那如果還是不盡理想我不知道部長您會回應他們很多人喊要廢除消失會議這件事嗎"},{"start":15421.581,"end":15442.631,"text":"各位報告 確實我們新的校試法以後我們也一直在掌握 除每個月我們現在目前是每個月在做追蹤各校因為新的校試法裡面所造成的一些實際的現象請部長報告現在上路以來的一個月"},{"start":15443.511,"end":15469.639,"text":"對每個月我們現在以後我們每個月在追蹤那在去年的時候當時也感謝委員的關心我們也希望說至少在收集這個新的法實行以後到今年的六月我們希望在今年的暑假至少有一個半年的觀察期看它的一個效益怎麼樣然後再有一個假設大家還覺得可以更精進我們再有一個新的一個想像"},{"start":15470.619,"end":15498.14,"text":"謝謝部長開放的態度因為我們有高級中等以下學校教師大概有21萬人其實大家也都很關注這件事但是至少我還是要肯定部長因為關於找回老師尊嚴這件事情有很多事情喊了很久包括調升導師費中點費的調升行政加急的調升還有擴大這些偏鄉教師的保險然後甚至是談到"},{"start":15499.541,"end":15523.856,"text":"年資的採計或者是終點費的調生要涵蓋到教學支援人員還有包括偏鄉久任獎金一直調一直調現在的態度應該是幾乎有反應其實都接納了所以從這個部分其實我們看得出來部長您確實是抱持著一個非常開放的態度那在這裡我們就是希望說"},{"start":15525.077,"end":15553.488,"text":"我們還有一件事沒做就是今天要排審的教師法的第25條我們希望對於這些被停聘然後呢復聘回復名譽我覺得最起碼該有的尊嚴就是全心還給他那至於其他的部分像家籍的部分我想人種主計種也都在這邊但是我們想要特別強調"},{"start":15555.029,"end":15570.066,"text":"教師幸福感的調查為什麼親子天下會來做調查就是因為我們發現這一兩年特別特別老師的聲音就是斷崖式的滑落已經有"},{"start":15571.938,"end":15596.528,"text":"一半的老師覺得不幸福然後這個問卷是有意義的因為是回收了5412份問卷然後有超過六成的老師是想要離開教職所以這個時候我希望在我們討論教師法第25條的時候我們希望我們的各個機關各個代表都能夠秉持著一個開放的態度"},{"start":15598.149,"end":15616.709,"text":"來讓老師的尊嚴至少能夠回復我們不知道怎麼回復他的名譽但是我們至少要回復他這段時間所損失的我想這是最基本的那部長不曉得你的態度如何謝謝委員關心我們老師的一個權益包括他的名義上怎麼樣去維護"},{"start":15618.03,"end":15645.72,"text":"我的想法跟委員的一個看法是一致的我們也希望說怎麼樣讓老師能夠更安心因為他當他將心比心當他變成被不實的指控或者誤解而造成的一些訴訟後來恢復他基本上不是規則而已我覺得是應該給他全心好 謝謝部長那在這邊就我們就等下午的排審好"},{"start":15646.9,"end":15671.726,"text":"好谢谢部长谢谢主席好谢谢吴丽华教委部长跟署长请回依照先前的宣告我们先来处理临时提案今天提出的临时提案有一案"},{"start":15680.255,"end":15689.8,"text":"國民教育階段部分男性學生面臨學習退縮情緒壓抑、社會孤立及暴力風險增加等男性困境,並形成有毒的男子氣概。"},{"start":15691.513,"end":15709.234,"text":"為現行課程與教師培訓能缺乏系統性的男性困境研究與教材教育部如何具體落實形成相關教材如何在學校進行推廣周知教師培訓及鼓勵社會討論同時針對如何形成教材如何鼓勵社會討論手術"},{"start":15710.515,"end":15725.709,"text":"如何具體協助學校與民間請教育部於三個月內向立法院教育及文化委員會提出書面報告提案人李怡瑾 陳秀寶 陳培宇先讀完畢好 請問提案委員有沒有補充書名或意見"},{"start":15726.349,"end":15741.713,"text":"好 謝謝主席我來說明一下這個提案是本席所提雖然我們是女性也十分關心這個男性的困境這個議題所以希望教育部要作為教育主管機關能研擬相關的教育對策讓這個社會對這個現象有更多的認識"},{"start":15744.474,"end":15768.744,"text":"那近年來在學術界其實男性困境這個詞開始有比較多的討論那特別是台灣男性協會這個等團體在那個論述中有被凸顯出來就許多男性他感受到自己既已經失去在父權結構中的那種特權位置那又沒有被清楚的提供新的角色的典範因而會產生一種被責備卻找不出口的這種焦慮狀態"},{"start":15774.406,"end":15790.06,"text":"那台灣男性協會有觀察到這個台灣的性別平等跟女性的主義發展已經讓很多的女生女性清楚可以做自己的空間但同時社會對男性的期待卻沒有同步的鬆動"},{"start":15791.161,"end":15809.339,"text":"所以許多的男性在伴侶跟家庭關係中被要求也要溝通要溫柔要承擔情緒勞動可是他卻缺乏被教導如何做這件事的資源或者是支持所以說男性困境不只是變得比較弱勢"},{"start":15810.88,"end":15834.476,"text":"而且它更是一種在傳統跟當代的價值之間的拉扯的那種未知的模糊那我覺得這種多重的矛盾變成了是男性困境的結構性的面向那我想不只是單一男生的問題喔這是整套社會對男人應該怎麼做的規範跟期待沒有同步被調整跟翻新所帶來的狀況"},{"start":15835.857,"end":15858.331,"text":"所以最後我要強調的是傳統對男性的期待擁有的什麼男子氣概其實是對很多男性來說我覺得他們也是受害者所以因此我覺得希望教育部可以研擬相關的各教育階段的教學對策讓這個社會更認識男性困境這些議題 以上請問教育部有沒有補充說明"},{"start":15865.333,"end":15868.075,"text":"好 招案通過臨時提案處理完畢 繼續我們請劉淑斌委員質詢劉淑 換了有請楊瓊英委員詢答 請"},{"start":15891.633,"end":15895.175,"text":"我們共同來討論教師荒的問題因為我們看到教師荒它不是未來的它是現在正在發生的這個危機所以請教教育部長"},{"start":15915.478,"end":15941.698,"text":"目前已经出现了结构性教师人力的一个危机那这个出现的现象本期来综合几项第一个教师征事的时候报名人数它是下降的但是我们在录取率上升但仍然是补不满甚至出现了有分科别的部分部分科别的部分是开缺但是没有人来报考"},{"start":15942.498,"end":15959.51,"text":"那如果說連想當老師的人都在減少的時候那我們教育部在整個培育的制度是不是有出現了失靈的這個狀況那第二個我要提出更嚴重的問題是人留不住"},{"start":15960.35,"end":15987.318,"text":"人留不住那第一件的教師呢反應最直接他說工作負擔過重還有加上行政壓力爆炸尤其是導師加行政的雙重負擔所以各類的這個評鑑填報工作它是不斷的在增加所以本期要請教教育部你是不是有一個整體的人力重建的這個計畫"},{"start":15988.848,"end":16017.545,"text":"因為如果制度不改那未來還要有人願意當老師嗎如果現在的現象已經產生那我們的教育我們的制度到底要怎麼改因為教師荒它不只是教育的問題它更是國安的一個議題所以本席認為我們要怎麼樣支持老師不讓他有這些的困境也就是國家的競爭力才能夠不流失"},{"start":16018.406,"end":16019.13,"text":"我要請教部長"},{"start":16022.223,"end":16047.125,"text":"謝謝委員關心我們老師的培育跟老師的穩定性首先我要跟委員報告我們教師人才人力上的流失當然有因素是複雜的譬如說每30年一個世代117年從民國57年到現在剛好第二個世代交替這是一個原因第二個我們在這個產業上"},{"start":16049.126,"end":16064.66,"text":"產業上我們當然是科技產業真的是蓬勃發展他也吸引了許多steam的老師第三個我們在私私的培育從過去我們這一個等於說工會的一個從師大工會的制度我們學多少老師就"},{"start":16065.501,"end":16084.422,"text":"招考的招多少的學生來儲備但是我們現在完全是儲備制多元施施多元從民國83年開放以後我們的老師就是我們以現在來講我們施施的培育的供給量事實上是遠大於需求量這個我也必須要先說明那最近"},{"start":16085.917,"end":16108.845,"text":"特别在去年我们看到许多代理老师会大量的缺失因为来自于我们要希望能够确保国民教育的品质国教虽然少子化但是我们希望各校不要有太多比例的代理代课老师尽管他们里边也有很多热情有使命感的所以我们国教从111年到114年里边"},{"start":16109.585,"end":16133.352,"text":"特別透過這個只要各校保留8%因為我們看到地方縣市教育這個中小學當然有的這個代理老師占到20幾% 30幾%我們希望穩定這個老師的一個教育品質老師能夠最多控留音韻潮指化控留8%所以呢從11年開始"},{"start":16133.752,"end":16143.481,"text":"由國教署來補助地方教育局處經會如果你學校只控留在8%改善了等於說你要開始"},{"start":16145.392,"end":16163.312,"text":"這個釋放出更多的正規的合格的教師的缺那麼從111年開始每年大概都補了五千個等於111 12 13 14這樣裡邊這四年裡邊大概原來代理代課老師有兩萬個大概幾乎都到"},{"start":16164.193,"end":16190.038,"text":"變成正式缺的老師所以呢我們變成有一些原來代理代課的老師他確實是會有一些不足再加上譬如說以台北市非常嚴重大家都看到的一些媒體的報導因為台北市在過去代理代課老師他是給一年的一個薪資當法院判定各地方縣市我們22地方縣市有的給9個月有的給10個月"},{"start":16192.498,"end":16219.744,"text":"並沒有像台北市一年當我們這一個制度一改變全部代理代課都要給一年的薪資的時候台北市的物價生活資格方面當然他就比不上這個因為條件都一樣了所以呢有一定比例的年輕人他當然要從事教職他有熱情他就回到他自己的這個自己的故鄉裡邊我想他是有多樣的一個原因在"},{"start":16220.92,"end":16243.878,"text":"在滚动那当然我们也看到偏乡的离岛的比如说原住民地区我们开始从去年就请屏东大学里边开原住民专班工会专班我们也看到steam的一些课也请台湾师大去开一些这个工会的专班除了这个以外我们还有一些学士或专班甚至"},{"start":16244.878,"end":16265.171,"text":"對這個偏鄉離島的這些代理代課老師他沒有教育學問我們甚至開線上的一個課程我們事實上是從整體的整體的一個系統裡面去看私私的培育包括世代的一個交替我們希望在這個部分培養出來的老師一方面解決我們許多熱情老師能夠留在"},{"start":16266.491,"end":16292.272,"text":"這一個中小學繼續這一個為台灣培養人才另外一個我們開始更大量的培養這一個各領域的這一個所謂的實施人才比如說包含steam的steam的這樣的一個人才那當然我也利用這個機會要拜託我們地方政府怎麼樣當教育部培養足夠的這樣的一個各領域的人才實施人力的時候我們地方怎麼樣去"},{"start":16293.635,"end":16322.177,"text":"透過一個攬財的一個機制跟留財的一個機制讓許多我們年輕人能夠繼續為台灣培養人才來一起努力一起為台灣做出本席之所以願意要給部長你大概三分鐘的時間去說明但是我們看到你目前所有的政策跟制度跟執行還是一個問題叫是謊所以我本席認為說我們當政府制定了制度之後"},{"start":16323.198,"end":16344.811,"text":"制定的制度在執行的同時你必須要去看到目前的現況到底是如何如果依照剛剛部長你所說的那沒有辦法去解決我們現在所稱的教師荒所以呢還好你知道問題在哪裡那這個問題因為你身為我們教育的最大的這個機構"},{"start":16346.972,"end":16371.886,"text":"所以更应当要从中怎么样去研明方案能够落实到目前家长学校等没有教师荒的这个隐忧这才是我们要的所以我愿意给你这么多的时间来说明也就是到目前为止我们的制度你要怎么去调整我还是一句话本席说我们希望协助学校"},{"start":16373.086,"end":16400.893,"text":"協助我們的家長協助我們的教師他不是教師荒三個字一直印記在我們的社會在我們的教育當中所以我具體的建議請你把你剛剛目前所說的你預計的KPI到底是如何你順便資料給本席我希望把這個教師荒這三個字能夠去除掉真正幫助學校OK嗎你多久時間可以告訴本席多久時間"},{"start":16403.134,"end":16430.347,"text":"跟委員報告 會後我們事實上這個data我們事實上都可以隨時就是因為你這個data要怎麼去調整嘛好不好 好 你既然已經有了你一個禮拜時間給本席接下來本席在那個主席本席要討論的是說在我們的整個升學制度到底公不公平因為我們一直認為學習歷程我們所強調的是要多元性的一個表現"},{"start":16431.588,"end":16452.429,"text":"而且減輕壓力但是現在似乎有變成了什麼呢有資源的學生他補習競賽包裝成果資源不足的學生他只能夠填寫基本的資料所以本學要請教部長在城鄉學生在鼎大錄取的一個比例差距有沒有持續在擴大"},{"start":16453.63,"end":16478.644,"text":"因為我們制定了這個制度教育最重要的是一個立足點的一個公平資源差異的一個影響評估本期認為必須在一段時間做滾動式的一個調整那我們的目的就是要落實當時設計的公平跟欠壓的目標這是非常重要 請做說明"},{"start":16480.547,"end":16495.876,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實事實上我們當這一個制度在改變的時候我們的城鄉的這些比較鄉區的這些學校的學生錄取鼎大的一個比例事實上是在增加的我想詳細的情形請廖市長來說說"},{"start":16497.517,"end":16519.066,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們的升學管道現在分很多一個是繁星那繁星其實就是顧及到每校都等值的這樣的一個概念所以不管是城鄉或者是在城市地區的學生的入取率其實是差不多的那再來就是針對學習歷程檔案城鄉之間有沒有差距這我們有進行相關的研究調查是不是會後我們提供給委員做"},{"start":16519.346,"end":16545.878,"text":"所以部長就針對城鄉差距在這個部分呢跟社會階級落差的這個部分非常重視喔你們必須要滾動式的去檢討最後一個功課喔我要請教因為3月23號教育部跟司法院跟這個法務部有開了公聽會喔也就針對校園暴力的這個問題精神狀況不穩學生的事件那家長請問的一句話"},{"start":16546.778,"end":16571.719,"text":"孩子在學校是真的安全嗎這句話在我們的教育這個層面來說是不應當有這樣子的話語因為我們一定要讓我們的孩子安全所以目前為止我們教育部似乎都停滯在個案的一個處理所以本期要請教部長3月23號的公聽會也就是針對於是不是有專府機構讓暴力強制"},{"start":16574.761,"end":16590.509,"text":"去在專輔機構裡頭來協助讓原本的校園能夠安全也讓教師能夠有權責的來處理這是我們在維護我們孩子的安全那目前為止早上我也特別在法治委員會也請問了這個"},{"start":16595.231,"end":16620.033,"text":"這個法務部他是跟你的立場是贊同來設置專輔機構但是司法還是認為有疑慮所以我特別要請部長站在你的立場你是贊成的教育部是贊成的是不是要更積極的三方再去會合還給家長讓孩子在校園安全的一個放心請教部長"},{"start":16627.413,"end":16643.5,"text":"對於這些有暴力或是一些情緒困擾的這些學生怎麼樣有一個更個別化的一些安置跟教育的方案我想這都是一直我們在思考"},{"start":16645.831,"end":16670.412,"text":"好謝謝這個願意三方趕快再會合還給校園的一個安全謝謝好謝謝楊瓊英委員請部長回座接下來有請劉淑斌委員詢答好謝謝主席那有請鄭部長好有請鄭部長"},{"start":16677.932,"end":16696.721,"text":"委員好 部長好那我們知道去年呢 教育部調高了國中小的導師費還有包括監政的這個終點費並增訂了行政獎金 這都提高了但是獨立了以工作為終點計時的這個專輔教師那請問這部分"},{"start":16702.475,"end":16712.048,"text":"因為這部分我在1月19號的時候也做了這樣一個質詢部長你那時候說應該要跟人事行政總署來做研議才可以知道那現在過了70天請問現在研議進度是怎麼樣有什麼結果嗎"},{"start":16718.306,"end":16740.703,"text":"跟我們報告我們現在目前確實在這個專輔老師因為他的一個工作性質事實上是跟中小學老師是不一樣的他並沒有一節一節的他是個案在接個案裡面您的現在進度是怎麼樣還沒有研議結果出現嗎我們目前並沒有並沒有一個具體的有在研議嗎"},{"start":16742.025,"end":16762.865,"text":"有有有那大概什麼時候要做演繹跟委員報告剛剛部長已經特別的說明接到委員這樣一個垂詢之後部長立即請我們就各類老師包含甚至剛才柯燕老師的一個情形我們都做演繹包含地方政府的態度所以這一些可能因為一點時間要收斂具體的講"},{"start":16764.326,"end":16792.716,"text":"像目前你采个案认定以现在学校在认定个案上二级辅导它的认定的情形或是个案数量你可能它有它的复杂性小校有小校的复杂性六师班的学校跟六班的学校所以你要花很多时间这可能要有22县市政府有经验的这些辅资中心可能要给我们一点时间但我觉得这一类的演绎很有价值它得要走过这个过程没有办法一下跳到那个答案"},{"start":16794.737,"end":16817.398,"text":"可能給我們兩個月從1月19號您問了之後那兩個月我們已經有初步了解到縣市對這件事的可能的態度但還有專業的團體以及現在我們剛剛有講到的五個議題在4月份會跟地方政府一起談整體的相關的會商那個會商會比較大規模會涉及到剛剛您提到的這個議題好"},{"start":16819.199,"end":16842.786,"text":"那包括像他費上班時間的這個加班他這部分也是會考量去一去就對了這個比較細節的會等到所有研議的那個議案會從上層一直到中層或下層這個逐個議題再來一起探討好謝謝那我們又聽到的是因為中央呢在輔資中心的這個安排上面呢這個中央因為"},{"start":16844.307,"end":16870.246,"text":"才化法的一個理由然後減少了對縣市的這樣的輔資中心的一個補助從87%降稍微到50%以下那這部分呢結果那個他的督導的能量就不夠了那請問可是這個民眾的學生他自己的一個心理的健康的需求是很重要的他還是都有需求嗎那預計用哪些措施來跟各縣市政府合作來照顧到孩子們的這個心理健康呢"},{"start":16872.574,"end":16894.533,"text":"跟各位人報告那委員剛剛關心的涉及到補助比率以及在相關的補助下怎麼樣強化中央地方的合作那首先因為在財劃法的確我很坦率地講國教署的經費是最直接跟地方政府有關那跟這一波的財劃法也是直接相關我們被大概整體調雲了大概138億所以相關的這個補助的射算會變動"},{"start":16900.069,"end":16907.158,"text":"那地方政府我們隨便抽取四個直轄市有兩個直轄市增加400多億有兩個直轄市增加"},{"start":16909.828,"end":16935.641,"text":"300億有一個省轄市增加200億有一個第一級的縣市增加188億地方政府應該讓他把錢撥出來讓他出來是不是可能就會照委員講的我們會有一些在第一個議題上在經費的整體的運作上會有一些溝通第二點可能在即便這樣的一個情況下部長還是站在整個國家往前學生的利益最大的話所以這裡面會有一些措施"},{"start":16936.121,"end":16961.661,"text":"仍然在不變的情況下還會往前進例如最新修的輔導法在輔導室的功能還有各處是包含普特融合輔導室統整功能等等這新一波的執法都在運作中那這也是新修的學生輔導法之後的四個執法那在併同四月份可能還有一個新的執法以及相關的補助要點都會來運用在這些措施的強化謝謝"},{"start":16962.622,"end":16981.12,"text":"好 謝謝我們看到國教署有這樣的用心發現到這個財劃法上面的分配精粹上面的也願意做這樣的相關執法的再把它補充進去好 謝謝那最後一個問題就是涉及到我們關心到大專的部分就在大學每900位的學生才分配到一名具有心理師跟社工師資格的專輔人員"},{"start":16982.461,"end":17004.989,"text":"但是這些專輔人員他們事實上在三年呢這個就算九任了啦流動率就非常高尤其看到他們最終把行政負擔過多雜務也過多這些部分薪資當然不如預期因為一個諮商師可能一個小時就是一兩千塊的這樣子的一個費用那現在想要問的是說如果降低大學新輔人員的流動率這部分那請這邊部長是不是能夠做回答"},{"start":17008.044,"end":17035.429,"text":"跟委員報告有關大專幸福人員的這個部分其實我們在去年就有提高我們相關的經費補助那像國立的部分我們都是提高到一個人要55萬然後私立的部分一個人是提高到65萬其實我們光是今年補助給大專校園的這個幸福人力就經費就高達3億多了那這個部分我們也會持續跟各個學校來一起合作然後看怎麼樣的措施可以讓這些人可以繼續留任那你們這個是專款專用嗎"},{"start":17037.009,"end":17038.029,"text":"謝謝劉淑冰委員的質詢 請部長回座下一位有請邱惠如委員"},{"start":17069.042,"end":17074.026,"text":"主席還有各位委員同仁還有各位政府部門的同仁大家好那我們有請鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":17085.097,"end":17102.808,"text":"今天我站在這邊是想替偏遠地區的校戶來請命因為似乎感覺政府忘了校戶的存在我們講一下其實針對偏遠地區因為人才有容易流失的問題"},{"start":17103.849,"end":17131.28,"text":"所以呢我們這個學校的偏遠地區學校教育發展條例就規範說為了挽留這些專業人力在偏遠地區所以呢有規範的9任獎金那部長不知道您知不知道這件事9任獎金是"},{"start":17132.658,"end":17151.241,"text":"確實我們九任獎金從教育部來講我們當然學校裡面第一個思考的就是老師、校長、主任這些確實也因為這樣校務或者過去有一些輔導人員在這個部分就被社工人力的一個在校園裡面就被忽略"},{"start":17151.901,"end":17163.224,"text":"因為它涉及到權序部跟人事總署所以我們必須要考量所有人員上的一些性質跟設立的一些特性所以我想這個還有待一些跨部會的一些討論部長謝謝你的回覆那你剛剛提到說教師要關照到"},{"start":17170.166,"end":17181.039,"text":"可是事實上這個偏遠的地區學校教育發展條例他關照到的不是只有教師而已他關照到是10類的人員10類的人員而我們校護卻不在這10類人員的範圍之內關照的人非常的多可是我們"},{"start":17187.486,"end":17205.79,"text":"我們校戶卻被獨排於外那我想這裡呈現出來的關照道的人有教師有校長那還有專聘教師代理教師專業您剛講的專業輔導人員其實他有被包括在裡面那社工人員也有包括在裡面那除此之外副社的幼兒園當中的園長"},{"start":17209.071,"end":17224.812,"text":"老師教保員助理教保員都有在這個9任獎金的發放範圍之內但是獨弄我們這個校護難道我們校護真的在這個政府部門的眼中這麼的不重要嗎可以獨排於這10項人員之外"},{"start":17227.162,"end":17255.385,"text":"我想我的心情跟委員是一致的校務當然是重要的它是在穩定學校的學童的一些健康的一個力量所以我同意這一個部分在校務裡面我們怎麼樣來努力或者用怎麼樣的方式因為剛才特別提到專業的輔導老師代理代課老師這都是我們教育部可以直接做為的但是因為校務基本上它的一個整個任用"},{"start":17256.943,"end":17281.681,"text":"沒有他的任用其實這10類人員的任用跟校戶也可以相提並論為什麼其他的人有校戶沒有那我們看到這些9任獎金其實雖然不是說金額非常的巨大但是至少也能夠撫慰校戶感覺好像被不公平對待的一個心情有相對剝奪感已經出現了因為別人都有但校戶都沒有那這些數字"},{"start":17282.301,"end":17301.911,"text":"好這些數字真的是既看不到也吃不到那再請那個署長幫我們來做一個說明謝謝委員給我們這個說明用10秒簡單的說明剛剛講的幾類人員他屬於部長或是國教署或是地方政府教育單位可以直接做決定而不涉及到相關單位人員"},{"start":17302.811,"end":17316.932,"text":"那今天如果在包含衛福部全序部在看校護護理師這個角色的時候可能也會讓我們去顧慮要我們也多幫忙去思考校護之外的護理人員"},{"start":17317.833,"end":17334.194,"text":"那種也有在偏遠地區比如說衛生所等等所以這個是不是容我們也做一些討論因此在當時的第21條他大概有這些顧慮之後希望教育部處理教育部能處理的部分不過剛剛部長已經有說可以再去約相關單位大家一起再討論這涉及到21條"},{"start":17336.237,"end":17362.47,"text":"相關單位討論那什麼時候可以給我們時間表因為那個署長您剛有提到嘛好像關照到學校的校戶然後就好像也會連帶的被質疑說衛生所為什麼沒有我想衛生所他們全也要把關但是我們現在是在講校園裡頭的情境其他10類人員都有了獨排校戶沒有我覺得這個可以不用扯到衛生所人員的事情去我們就是在校園裡頭我們先處理校園裡頭一件事這是第一件事"},{"start":17365.191,"end":17380.223,"text":"那第二件事其實我們偏遠地區的學校教育發展條例第九條有提到說中央政府其實是有補助地方政府某些經費的那其中有一個項目就是第九條第一項提到說這個合理的配置這個"},{"start":17381.264,"end":17405.888,"text":"護理人員然後還有協助他們的專業發展所以9任獎金的裁員就來自於第9條第二項那第一項又提到銷戶那不知道為什麼前面有關照到銷戶就第9條然後21條卻沒有關照到銷戶這是我的疑問那剛也提到您也提到說願意研議嗎那事實上早在你們願意研議之前因為銷戶一直來跟我請命那我也提出這個修正的草案那修正的草案我就在第21條的第二項把銷戶納進去了那剛你們"},{"start":17409.369,"end":17412.063,"text":"提出願意演繹 那不曉得這邊可不可以給我們一個具體的時間表"},{"start":17414.96,"end":17439.679,"text":"我們在一個月內其實對這個議題我們也覺得 像剛剛布朗講的這個護理師如果在我們的偏鄉服務那麼久看怎麼樣不會衝擊到其他的我們可以照顧好那這個是不是給我們一個月我們會約時間但這個一個月是約了以後談一下方向所以他逐步會往前進的過程或洽談的過程我們再回報委員中間的一些商議結果"},{"start":17440.66,"end":17468.959,"text":"沒有問題謝謝教育部願意帶回去演繹那也希望在不久的將來就是教育部這邊跟我這邊我們能夠聯手來守護校護的一些權益然後保障偏遠地區學生的健康這樣子以上謝謝謝謝邱慧如委員的質詢請部長回座接下來有請廖先祥委員廖先祥委員廖先祥委員不在鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在"},{"start":17469.699,"end":17480.613,"text":"有請李昆城委員巡查好 謝謝主席我們請鄭部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":17487.677,"end":17507.855,"text":"部長好,辛苦了這個諮詢到現在那我先想跟部長討論一下這個校園暴力的問題那在2023年12月的時候發生的這個新北校園的這個戈井案那這個案子最後在2026年今年2月定宴那其中的這一個郭楠被判"},{"start":17508.896,"end":17525.968,"text":"12年教說的鄰女被判刑11年這已經定讞了這件事情也引起了說大家要對於說少年事件處理法要修法的一個問題在今年3月又發生了國中生一個國中女生被履棒的霸凌的案子"},{"start":17526.869,"end":17549.657,"text":"就是說我們當然希望說藉由這個教育然後藉由這個家庭然後學校我們一起來讓這個校園暴力的這個案子能夠減少但是呢少年事件處理法那的確也到了一個修法的一個有這個必要性那我先請教一下部長那現在就是說對於這個少年事件處理法"},{"start":17550.177,"end":17571.224,"text":"因為過去有這個一律塗銷前科那就是說你只要滿三年那你沒有再犯就一律塗銷前科那現在民間團體是希望說能夠採取這個按照這個他犯罪的這個輕重才分級這個來塗銷動態助濟那我想請教一下這個部長的看法"},{"start":17575.727,"end":17596.753,"text":"這個我想從教育來看我們當然希望說人能夠給他犯錯給他有一個機會但是就這裡邊的一個塗銷他可能還是涉及到這個司法院相關的一些規劃那我是想說因為您是這個教育部的部長那您的看法會跟這一個因為這個問題我也問過這個司法院"},{"start":17598.973,"end":17622.381,"text":"那他當然現在他們的這個修法是希望說採這個分罪的輕重比如說他如果是犯重罪的話那可能這一個突銷的時間會有分這個等級時間不同那就教育部的立場來看您對於這個上年事件處理法的修法是抱持什麼樣一個態度那對於這個民間團體他們希望說採取這一個前科分級突銷那您的態度怎麼樣"},{"start":17623.677,"end":17643.854,"text":"這裡邊譬如說這個如果是來自一個輕罪為罪他一時的一個糊塗所犯下的就是說不會涉及到生命上的一些傷害我想我從教育的立場當然我會我會傾向這一個支持但是屬於重大型案應該他必須要對"},{"start":17644.835,"end":17661.625,"text":"行為付出責任這種法令上他應該要承擔的我是認為以目前這樣委員所提供的這一個圖示來看我基本上是認同的所以部長也認同就是說我們按照這個罪行的輕重再來決定說是不是要分級來做這個前科的圖效是"},{"start":17666.109,"end":17690.967,"text":"那其實除了這個法律之外其實我們也希望從家庭教育還有從專業的社工心理師一起來努力希望說這個是最後的就是說因為你犯法之後那你怎麼樣去處理說犯罪這個青少年之後怎麼在社會上立足我們其實教育的這部分是更重要是說在"},{"start":17692.067,"end":17708.867,"text":"這個校園暴力還沒發生之前我們要做什麼運放我想這才是最重要的包括這是個大課題今天很短時間沒辦法跟部長討論那麼多那有另外一個問題想請教一下部長就是校園交通安全那校園交通安全就是說因為在前幾天"},{"start":17709.648,"end":17734.937,"text":"發生在長庚大學的校區裡面有一輛三重客運的公車它其實算是違規然後壓到了一個20歲的學生這個學生目前也還在加護病房當中那這其實也不是個案那現在就是說按照教育部你們在2024年所做的校園安全災害事件的分析報告裡面光是交通事故"},{"start":17736.458,"end":17749.619,"text":"這個2024年就有608件然後受傷的有864人次那所以說這個其實校園的交通安全的這部分那其實是也值得這個教育部來做處理那可是現在就是說變成說"},{"start":17751.101,"end":17780.222,"text":"教育部跟這個交通部對於這個校園的交通安全的部分目前看來好像是處於一個三不管的地帶就是說這個在一般的道路我們就規範的很明確我們有這個道交條例這個道交的這個處罰條例來做處理但是呢這個在學校裡面其實沒有就放由這個各個學校來做處理那我不曉得說在校園這部分的話那有什麼樣更具體的一個做法那公權力要怎麼去做介入跟委員報告"},{"start":17780.962,"end":17805.059,"text":"我們事實上這個校安的通報裡面各大學每年發生多少的所謂的校園的交通安全的事件我們都有記錄的然後我們每一年我們把那個交通安全做得最不安全等於說他校園最不安全了我們會找學者專家去現場去看有沒有來自於基礎設施要怎麼改善要怎麼我們"},{"start":17806.179,"end":17820.396,"text":"會協助他改善從專業來協助他這幾年我們事實上也看到了一些成果原來譬如說去年被列為前十大前三名的今年看起來因為改善以後他就沒有了我想這個部分會後我再"},{"start":17820.876,"end":17849.677,"text":"把這個資料給委員我們更正向的 積極的去協助學校我希望這個數字能夠減少嘛但是就是說剛剛部長所提到的應該就是一些譬如說硬體設備的一些改善道路的一些視角的一些改善當然他學校也應該要正視這個學生的行車安全嘛許多的宣導等等的那現在我也希望說交通部能夠介入在處理這部分因為現在學校的這個道路不是一般道路啊是"},{"start":17850.317,"end":17866.549,"text":"對啊就變成說很多屬於這個道教的處罰條例裡面好像沒辦法處罰到這個校園裡面的這個大學其實校園是開放的所以社區民眾或者很多人的進出我想這個部分我們來看你們再跟交通部來"},{"start":17867.47,"end":17887.33,"text":"來怎麼樣來合作來合作怎麼讓公權力可以介入因為現在都是按照各個學校自己去處理那就是說一般道路所適用的規範那是不是在我們校園的道路因為有些校園真的很大是不是能夠一體適用這方面是不是請教育部來跟教工部來做一個協調一下謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":17890.011,"end":17910.406,"text":"好谢谢李昆成委员的质询请部长回座接下来有请张亚林委员上台询答张亚林委员好有请张亚林委员上台询答张亚林委员"},{"start":17918.112,"end":17940.341,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請部長好 有請部長委員好我想有一件事情要先跟部長討論一下就是說前幾天我跟台大社監受害的學生已經召開記者會因為法院已經判處加害人的一些相關刑罰那台北的高人法院"},{"start":17941.141,"end":17964.362,"text":"行政法院更明確的確認台大在性平程序存在違法的問題那我想其實我也可以看到就是教育部在這段時間裡面也做了一些事情也是來要求我們台大但是從114年的10月到115年的3月整個台大還是沒有依法重啟調查那到"},{"start":17965.783,"end":17990.716,"text":"114年的12月你們又再去持續的要求台大限期召開相關的性評會那我想問一個問題就是說我們目前呢也已經要求台大你們由教育部的性評會做成的決議視同台大性評會的決議要求從請調查我想問一下像這樣子的案例由中央來做決議的案例是多的嗎"},{"start":17994.507,"end":18021.409,"text":"這次比較少的比較少見對不對是比較少見的對嗎對好那我想就是說在台大在這個案件上面其實已經出現了嚴重的制度失靈跟行政怠惰那我希望這是一個提醒也要請一個懇求我們的教育部應該好好審視我們現在的校園性平法規是不是應該要有一些地方來做檢討避免有類似的情況再度發生可以嗎"},{"start":18023.044,"end":18050.618,"text":"當然可以的好那再來另外一個問題是有關於特教生的問題就是說我看部長您先看一下您前方的這個表格這個是各地特殊教育他們去分類就是說從11年到113年特教生跟疑似生的一個數據的統計比例可是呢這張的問題在於說我們依據特教法或是特教學生及幼兒鑑定辦法其實沒有所謂的疑似生的一個規範"},{"start":18051.738,"end":18069.091,"text":"而是我們的縣市政府卻有統計疑似身的規範可是呢在我們現行的法規我們對於疑似身是沒有辦法給予相關的支持和補助所以為什麼會有這樣子的疑似身這樣子的身份又代表什麼樣子的意義我們能實際上給他什麼樣的支持呢"},{"start":18071.823,"end":18083.689,"text":"好 我們請蘇亮謝謝韋恩 疑似生他有至少兩個情況第一個 他在過程中或是他原來鑑定沒有過等等但是都給予補助"},{"start":18084.696,"end":18111.566,"text":"我們現在疑似生也都有給予補助嗎對 這個我們都給予補助那到底要分特教生跟疑似生的意義到底差別在哪裡疑似生因為他有機會而且很有機會只是在相關的新品或相關的搜集資訊上還要比較完善一點但是他看起來其實很多都是需要照顧所以在政府不管中央地方都有給予協助如果有個案我們可以馬上來就文的這個說明來處理"},{"start":18112.486,"end":18139.972,"text":"今天讨论到不是因为个案的问题没问题就应该是说我们现在这种鉴定疑似生的做法对所以我第二个要跟委员报告您看到的那个将近有十一分之一或十分之一这一个我们现在的策略是既然都照顾我们希望县市政府其实能够加快让他变成真正可以直接就叫做特教的需求的孩子在那个疑似生那个阶段不要太久"},{"start":18140.812,"end":18158.963,"text":"不要太久所以盡量把它完整的把它去可以送到是特教生這一邊來那這一個鑑定的相關的規範或是因為它涉及到專業是不是容我們會後把各縣市的情況整理給委員我們的策略也跟委員做個報告"},{"start":18160.144,"end":18176.524,"text":"因為我認為一四升其實並沒有得到相對應的足夠的資源我覺得這還是在各縣市上面存在資源上面的落差同時我也看到台北市在一四升的比例數量其實都是比其他縣市要來得更高我覺得這是一個蠻大的問題"},{"start":18178.126,"end":18207.222,"text":"就變成說像我之前也處理了一些個案就是這些孩子就是永遠都沒有辦法被判定是特殊生可是在醫學判鑑定上面他就是特殊生可是當地的縣市教育局就是不願意給他這樣子的資格所以我不認為一次生的確有得到相對應的補助但這件事情呢我認為是非常重要因為他實際的影響到這個學生他得到的支持以及他可能會造成課間上面老師能不能給予他足夠的正確的支持"},{"start":18207.822,"end":18223.774,"text":"所以除了這個孩子外學生還有其他的學生以及這個老師其實都會因疑似生沒有辦法得到足夠的支持這一個東西我覺得是要徹底的檢討特別還有各縣市對於疑似生的規範也是非常的不一致"},{"start":18224.844,"end":18249.295,"text":"好 所以我想就是這個部分呢等到你們收集好各縣市的資料的時候我們要一起來重新的檢討因為這也是學校的老師跟我反映的問題確實台北市的遺失聲有異常的一個波我想這個會後我們來跟台北市跟這個湯局長我們來了解一下到底發生什麼事"},{"start":18249.975,"end":18273.924,"text":"對 因為你看它跟新北市相比因為它是在評估在鑑定在各方面裡面流程跟為什麼就比例上來講為什麼它有異常的高沒錯啊它光是新北市都是好幾倍了啦好不好所以我想這個部分人家麻煩部長關心啦畢竟每個都是我們很重要的孩子那對於這個東西我們有機會在半年內有一個延長的方向嗎可以可以喔好 謝謝"},{"start":18275.35,"end":18293.365,"text":"好謝謝張雅玲委員的質詢請部長回座下一位何新淳委員何新淳委員何新淳委員不在林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員不在下一位請洪孟凱委員上台詢答主席謝謝好主席謝謝麻煩請鄭部長好有請鄭部長"},{"start":18304.434,"end":18322.297,"text":"好 部長我們教育文化委員會同仁大家辛苦本來本席是真的想說中午就趕快但是因為有個案件我真的還是過意不去一定要過來反應跟希望能夠聽到部長正面的答案就是最近發生這個女國中生的一個霸凌事件"},{"start":18322.938,"end":18341.834,"text":"那霸凌的一個影片也在崔上面有在轉傳那當然這個絕對不要傳是因為這可能會造成當事人多次傷害但本席想要講的是說嚴重的霸凌現在的現行制度雖然我們過去已經討論非常久但還是實際有那就變成是說霸凌者他到底有沒有負起應有的責任"},{"start":18342.984,"end":18361.872,"text":"而讓他我們已經有做很多的方向不管是社會安全網不管是校園的一個教導指導等等但是還是有人霸凌那霸凌能不能也要要求霸凌者負起相對應的責任我先請教因為現行的法律制度來講的話他可能會變成是校園裡面調查"},{"start":18363.713,"end":18379.366,"text":"輔導、祭典、轉班或是轉校但是他當轉校之後後續他要升學什麼的還是如果他之後變洗白了還是升學那有看到韓國的例子其實韓國過去霸凌也非常嚴重"},{"start":18380.56,"end":18409.802,"text":"部長你應該也理解嘛韓國他們在2025年2026年開始有列入校園霸凌的扣分制度就是把它變成是在升學時候的一個評分標準那當然一定有會有人有反對意見因為講是說這樣子會不會讓孩童造成是說他犯一次過沒有辦法去這個改過向上改過自新但是我們現在要討論的地方就是如果他已經非常離譜的已經造成人身傷害"},{"start":18410.482,"end":18438.223,"text":"严重霸凌或是重复反复霸凌的情况我们是不是应该也要让霸凌者负起相对应的责任我完全同意委员的看法当这个防护造成人身的伤害他必须要付出法律的责任我觉得这是肯定的但付出法律的责任的同时相对应的因为好譬如说部长就如同现在这一个案件他是女国中生被学姐逼下跪呼巴掌"},{"start":18439.653,"end":18460.621,"text":"那這有人身傷害會有傷害罪但可能傷害罪相對性而且還要走司法程序等等但如果說這一個事件比如說過了之後沒有再往上或是說他霸凌沒有去譬如說校內寄過而已那他沒有法律上責任的時候那他還是一樣構成霸凌啊"},{"start":18461.749,"end":18469.899,"text":"那他有沒有對於應該對於這部分他升學的地方有要有所要有記錄或是要有所取捨"},{"start":18471.487,"end":18491.841,"text":"部長這就是我們今天要談論的議題我想是不是把他納入他的升學的一些扣分或者在許多的這些他可享用的資源上的一些暫停或者隔離我想這個我們確實是可以來研究啦是因為現在我們就看到韓國已經在做了"},{"start":18492.841,"end":18513.086,"text":"韓國甚至他們從2025年去年的時候就是因為有高官的兒子他在校園做霸凌事件但到最後他還可以考上一個頂尖大學造成全國嘩然而且因為我們現在即便是我們的制度已經有所謂的校內的評議委員會但是社會有些時候也是一個縮影啊"},{"start":18513.846,"end":18538.207,"text":"但霸凌者他會霸凌他可能自視家庭的背景不錯所以如果說真的成立評議委員會的時候也許他的家長也會有互相的勢力角力啊也造成說沒有辦法還原公道也因此我們這邊才想是說既然韓國以及其他國家有針對校園霸凌的部分能夠用更積極的態度去做處理那我們台灣能不能來做一個參考"},{"start":18539.068,"end":18559.998,"text":"所以感謝剛剛部長您有講到是說正面的回憶是可以研議那我們是不是可以針對這個部分請教育部參考韓國現在的一個做法甚至來了解是說他們用這樣的做法之後有沒有什麼後遺症以及有沒有減少霸凌的案件那什麼時候可以給我們本席一個書面的一個報告"},{"start":18561.451,"end":18575.211,"text":"我們是因為這裡邊收集國外的資料我們跟學者專家希望能夠有一個更深入的一些討論是兩個月兩個月好本席等你兩個月但本席希望看到的是如果說確實有效"},{"start":18576.733,"end":18601.169,"text":"那我们应该可以往这个方向来推动因为这可能不只是只是立法或修法而是牵扯到更要不要家长也负年代责任是如果真正的一个青少年在学校犯下的一个非常严重的一个伤害的一个我想家长也不能这一个置身事外置身事外或者我想这个我们比较系统性的是谢谢部长您提到"},{"start":18601.729,"end":18621.944,"text":"因為這也是本席在講是說因為很多人會講說邵氏法的部分我也有提案但是邵氏法已經變成是刑案的部分你的前科要做突銷與否這個是一塊但本席現在講到的是更普遍的霸凌現象你說孤立人潑人家水然後叫人家下跪甚至罰站唱國歌"},{"start":18623.479,"end":18641.122,"text":"我說這些都是我們過去在國中高中升學的時候有聽過或是有看到的霸凌狀況那既然如此這一些他又沒有到涉及刑案可是他真的是如果反覆不要拉扁甚至是說他在這個學校完了之後可以轉學到另外一個學校"},{"start":18641.562,"end":18662.25,"text":"他就重新醒白重新再一次然後沒有任何記錄然後到最後變成是他所有的機制都是希望能夠讓學生知過能改而且往好的方向走我想這個不管任何一個機制任何一個辦法任何一個制度都是這樣的一個本質教育的本質當然是希望讓大家"},{"start":18663.831,"end":18671.835,"text":"但是如果說真的已經一而再再而三也應當讓霸凌者負起相對應的責任嗎因為說實在那個影片我們任何人都於心不忍再去看"},{"start":18678.999,"end":18706.011,"text":"那既然但是我們不能因為我們沒有看而當這個影片沒發生它確實有發生也因此我們才會說希望能夠更積極的態度那兩個月兩個月之後我看到教育部的報告我也會再進一步的針對這個部分來跟教育部做研究討論好嗎謝謝謝謝部長謝謝洪文凱委員的質詢請部長回座下一位徐富貴委員徐富貴委員徐富貴委員不在"},{"start":18706.874,"end":18708.895,"text":"有請林倩琦委員上台詢問"},{"start":18731,"end":18755.148,"text":"本席長期在關心有關於偏鄉跟原鄉的一個教育環境最主要是因為這些地方資源不足,失之不穩的結構性問題也是長期存在但是今天本席要針對一個個案來做一些關心也就是跟本席脈絡也很親的澎湖縣就是離島的一個問題,我想跟偏鄉原鄉都有一些相同的處境"},{"start":18755.928,"end":18773.246,"text":"那么大池国小有一个家长的集体澄清案件那全校大概14名学生已经很少了只有近半以上也不是近半应该多于一半以上的大概有九位家长的联署来向教育相关单位去反映"},{"start":18773.966,"end":18786.834,"text":"教學跟行政的問題那也提出了二十幾頁的這個具體事證那反映的內容包括課程長期的落後然後期末也倉促趕課然後最重要的是也常常存在的一個教學還沒有完成就進行評量那考試 那考試的狀況呢又自行翻書"},{"start":18792.918,"end":18821.098,"text":"那這樣子的狀況對教長來講很難以想像那這些問題都很長期的累積那在教學行政跟校務的層面呢那校長也沒有辦法督導那整個入班的一個官課跟教學輔導的機制沒有好好發揮功能感覺像學校好像失去了一些治理所以多次向縣府的教育處反映也沒有具體的改善那麼所以在這個部分本席請教啦"},{"start":18821.938,"end":18842.869,"text":"第一個部分是如果對於家常多次具體陳情也沒有辦法改善的案件教育部會不會多做一些了解然後去做處理然後第二個部分是像偏鄉這類小學校的這個案件那當地主管機關如果沒有能夠有效的處理的時候教育部是不是有主動能夠介入跟督導的一個機制還是完全仰賴地方的一個治理"},{"start":18843.729,"end":18867.786,"text":"那第二個部分是那目前對於教師品質跟這個校務運作的監督有沒有一個跨縣跨縣市一致的標準那會不會因為地方的差異讓偏鄉的學生或離島的學生的權益就被打折那這個部分是不是請部長先回應謝謝委員這個提醒我們這個大城大慈國小我想我們在下班之前我們一定會了解然後必要的時候我們就會"},{"start":18868.987,"end":18876.193,"text":"這個國教署會專人到學校裡面去介入實地的一個勘察最主要主動關心那離島整個資源狀況也跟園鄉很接近對可能做一個關心好不好"},{"start":18887.003,"end":18908.374,"text":"那麼最重要就是說那個中央跟地方這有效的一個補位的救濟機制可能請那個部裡面要針對這些可能最沒有資源最需要保障的學生去做一個處理讓教育的一個公平性能夠被落實那接下來本席也在談一個長期以來大家都在講但是也是這個通面性的一個問題也就是學習歷程檔案的一個"},{"start":18911.856,"end":18927.646,"text":"實際成效啦那本席進入立法院之後其實這個議題常在談那幾年來都會再整理一次我想他的初衷最重要是希望能夠憑良多元化但是食物的運作到底有沒有在符合他的初衷那一段時間都會有人拿出來討論"},{"start":18928.707,"end":18948.325,"text":"那麼你們的國教所的統計啦108的課綱第一屆到第三屆的高中畢業生那整個的學系成果沒有提交的比例從第一屆的18.31%達到了第三屆的30.17%那這個沒有提交比例的增加那是不是制度的一個運作有一些明顯的落差"},{"start":18949.505,"end":18976.353,"text":"那這邊我們來談一下其實很多人也提到學習歷程在實務上漸漸變成了一個資源的競爭者那有資源的學生就參加各種營隊製作精美的檔案然後外部還可以進行一些內容的包裝但是實際這個資源比較少的學生比如說像本席關注的偏鄉原鄉甚至剛才所說的離島的這個個案往往沒有辦法投入相同的時間跟成本那這個其實是"},{"start":18977.413,"end":18999.84,"text":"這樣子的 本來是希望多元化的初衷就擴大了城鄉的一個差距跟社會階級的落差然後最後 本席要提醒AI時代的來臨那深層式的AI也會在學習歷程檔案在真實性上跟可驗證性上面臨挑戰那包括部裡面或者是相關單位要來檢測的話呢也是有很大的一個問題所以"},{"start":19001.36,"end":19024.512,"text":"那目前大學的入學主要還是以學測成績作為門檻那學習歷程本來應該是輔助的資料那是不是在這個部分整個升學體制當中的定位你們要不要再做一個比較確切的一個回應那最重要就是說制度如果沒有辦法這個減輕壓力就增加了一些沒有必要的負擔又擴大了不平等那是不是應該要檢討啦"},{"start":19026.633,"end":19049.333,"text":"我們其實長期以來有很多檢討的聲音但是這個問題還是存在這個一個通案性的問題本席在這邊就今天的質詢也在提出一些這個問題是不是部長這邊可以很快的簡單的回饋我們學習歷程好像有它一定的價值但是怎麼樣與時俱進我們現在請大考中心跟高中端"},{"start":19050.194,"end":19070.104,"text":"在眼裡看有怎麼樣能夠以實際性包含剛才委員所提的雖然我們的老師大學老師很多人他是很認真在看學生的學習歷程檔案但是AI的一個深層式的AI會不會造成許多更新的一些挑戰我想我們會"},{"start":19071.836,"end":19088.327,"text":"願意更正視這個問題來做討論來看怎麼樣最重要就是說不要再增加大家太多的負擔然後做的事情如果沒有效度那原本的初衷又達不到然後資源的落差越來越大然後成像差異又更明顯的話"},{"start":19089.147,"end":19113.772,"text":"我想真的要好好地檢討一下初衷然後跟實際的一個執行的狀況跟我們未來即將面臨的挑戰那這個部分 部裡面真的要很審慎地做一些檢討跟討論 好不好那如果有相關的這個進度是不是可以把一些階段性的報告送給本席的一個研究室 好嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝林倩琪委員的質詢請部長回座"},{"start":19114.727,"end":19119.427,"text":"下一位苏青全委员苏青全委员苏青全委员不在"},{"start":19120.475,"end":19149.434,"text":"卢宪一委员卢宪一委员卢宪一委员不在今天登记质询的委员均已发言完毕询答结束另外有卢宪一万美玲徐富贵三位委员提出书面质询列入公报记录那因为等一下要做教师法第25条的排审为利于讨论准备协商的场地也让大家先用餐我们休息到下午三点"},{"start":19150.054,"end":19158.168,"text":"那跟审查法案无关的列席机关代表可以先行离席现在休息谢谢"},{"start":19191.794,"end":19191.815,"text":"喽"},{"start":19223.695,"end":19223.818,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":19255.418,"end":19255.753,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":19342.934,"end":19343.167,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":19388.411,"end":19388.634,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":23204.009,"end":23221.682,"text":"現在繼續開會審查教師法第25條及第53條相關修正草案請議事人員宣讀條文內容並進行討論與協商討論時如果有新增修正動議請一併宣讀討論時請參閱教育部提供的題會討論版本書面資料並列入公報記錄"},{"start":23234.023,"end":23250.053,"text":"請宣讀教師法委員吳麗華等提案第25條第二項及第三項默劇句末均爭定"},{"start":23250.495,"end":23269.525,"text":"及學術研究佳績其餘未修正委員馬文君等提案第25條第二項及第三項莫具巨莫均爭定及佳績其餘未修正委員葉元之等委員羅志強等委員徐曉新等提案第25條軍統委員馬文君等提案"},{"start":23276.264,"end":23290.209,"text":"委員郭玉琴等提案第25條同委員吳麗華等提案委員林倩琦等提案第25條第二項第二項莫具巨莫均徵定加值並恢復"},{"start":23292.318,"end":23312.423,"text":"主席宣告現在進行教師法第25條及第53條條文修正草案主條審查審查時請參照條文對照表及提案關係文書第25條條文修正有委員伍麗華等17人共14個提案以及委員陳秀寶等修正動議那"},{"start":23322.754,"end":23325.344,"text":"是不是請委員表示意見來 請秀寶委員"},{"start":23328.064,"end":23354.474,"text":"謝謝主席在第25條這個部分本席提的是修正動議那我想其實在今天早上很多委員的發言對這一條其實大家都是認同的就考量教師在受停聘的期間他是非自願停職工作那所以這個停聘期間結束後如果並沒有被解聘或是終局停聘這個處分代表教師他並沒有從事相關不法行為所以停聘期間的薪水本來就應該要補發"},{"start":23356.075,"end":23383.52,"text":"那先行的條文規定說只補發本薪的部分是有點不合理包括學術研究加給的部分所以本席提修正動議是來增加補發的薪資要加進學術研究加給的部分來保障教師的權益 以上好 謝謝秀寶委員的意見我們是不是先請所有委員第一輪發言"},{"start":23385.18,"end":23392.093,"text":"齁 好不好 可以齁好 那接下來我們請林怡菁委員接下來蔡春丑委員"},{"start":23393.427,"end":23418.723,"text":"然後郭鈺晴委員好 謝謝這個這案本席在上個會期初第一次質詢教育部的時候就有提過主要是還是校事會議濫訴的狀況太多那很多小案大辦的這個問題那就在這個期間那老師被停聘 被調查那有些樣態就是這個期間有發給辦述的本心有的是全部都沒有發"},{"start":23419.804,"end":23439.978,"text":"那等這個未受這個解聘或終局停聘的處分那回復聘任才補發這個停聘期間的薪資那主要是補發薪資的部分是不是要包含加給那目前只發本薪也就是所謂年工薪那加給跟獎金都沒有發可是老師的薪水結構"},{"start":23440.759,"end":23452.947,"text":"跟一般的公務人員跟我們的都不一樣因為他其實本心只佔了其中的一部分那絕大部分的差不多四、五成是所謂的研究"},{"start":23454.717,"end":23472.839,"text":"學術研究佳績所以你如果說只給他本縫上面就給他一半才漂亮嘛他就已經沒事了所以我說這實在是很不公平所以與這些薪資結構的不同所以大家忽略這一點所以應該是就是說"},{"start":23474.204,"end":23502.979,"text":"所以我的草案是寫要補發家籍當然家籍現在包括學術研究家籍啊這個地域家籍啊植物家籍等等那有些版本是只有強調學術研究家籍那我覺得這個當然可以再細討論那無論如何啦學術研究家籍是最重要因為它占比太大四五成所以是不是無論如何把這個學術研究家籍一定要加進去那至於其他的家籍"},{"start":23504.019,"end":23507.94,"text":"主席 大家好那台灣民眾黨呢提案的也是一樣我們覺得再回聘回來的老師呢我們應該除了"},{"start":23531.826,"end":23553.098,"text":"之前是只有供奉 只有就是能供奉那我們這裡我們主張應該要把學術研究會還有地域家級都要納入 就是要補償給回任的老師那這裡呢 在這個地域家級在這裡我做一個說明"},{"start":23557.681,"end":23574.627,"text":"這個就是屬於偏遠的 偏遠地區的教師那現在目前呢 我們偏鄉的一個老師呢本來就是教師方 有很多人也不願意到偏鄉去那 好不容易有人願意到偏鄉去了然後 再來就是說"},{"start":23577.268,"end":23592.851,"text":"目前根據統計目前有這樣的一個問題大概有26個人那26個人期間有幾位是在偏鄉也沒有多少人那我們要想說這些偏鄉的他本身在一個"},{"start":23593.772,"end":23616.502,"text":"很多人不願意去的地方第二他說這樣的一個調查對他本身就是一種尊嚴的傷害那既然已經調查完了他是沒有這回事是受冤枉的那他也在偏鄉在調查的期間我相信他也一定住在那個地方等嘛因為要調查嘛所以我覺得第一"},{"start":23617.022,"end":23617.623,"text":"我是覺得這沒有多少錢啊"},{"start":23633.177,"end":23648.328,"text":"這個經費沒有多少錢啊因為26個人然後再扣掉那個噴箱也沒有多少人那既然說自尊就受傷了何必去計價這幾千塊而且也沒有多少人所以這個是我的建議"},{"start":23649.517,"end":23674.78,"text":"好 非常謝謝蔡遵從委員所表示的意見那接下來請郭育晴委員那郭育晴委員發言完之後我們請教育部來做回應好 那我要強調一下這個學術研究家其實跟本心是一樣的啦如果說老師他因為資歷就是固定的資歷這個薪資其實他是為了要維持他原本生活的一個本來重要的一個核心啦"},{"start":23675.32,"end":23689.156,"text":"如果說是因為他非自願或者是不可規則於自己的一個室友被停聘那最後獲得這個清白要復職這個也是我們一直不斷強調部長之前也強調就是要恢復這個名譽的部分"},{"start":23690.077,"end":23719.276,"text":"我想如果只發揮這個本心其實比較不符合這個受僱人他們的這個請求報酬的一個精神比較難以去維持他們原本的可能家庭的照顧的一些基本的一個費用啦那尤其是近幾年這個物價又大幅增長的一個狀況之下所以我想這個部分就是學術研究家級的部分那我把它寫進去的這個條文當中也是主要因為這個原因以上"},{"start":23721.258,"end":23731.204,"text":"好以上有四位提案委員都有表示意見現在我們就是請教育部是不是鄭部長回覆還是好請人事處處長請謝謝委員我們教育部這邊當然就是剛剛委員已經說明過就是"},{"start":23748.243,"end":23764.866,"text":"原先的規定是本薪那現在要把學術研究家級加進來那我們是站在一個就是給老師每個月經常性的一個固定薪資的一個概念就是全新的一個概念在看待這樣子的一個條文"},{"start":23765.487,"end":23787.133,"text":"那如果按照這樣子每個月固定薪的一個結構應該是本薪加學術研究加給那所以我們建議的文字是就是後面加學術研究加給那另外剛剛有委員也提到就是說加給另外可能有植物加給或者是地域加給那這個都是因為"},{"start":23789.073,"end":23815.251,"text":"身份上他可能有兼主管職務或者是他服務在偏鄉所給予的另外其他的家籍跟我們剛剛說明的就是每個月老師固定薪資的一個經常性給予本質上還是有一些些的不太一樣所以我們教育部這邊建議的一個條文是本新家學術研究家籍上報告"},{"start":23816.572,"end":23828.667,"text":"好 謝謝處長的回應那教育部這邊在螢幕上有打出他們的題會版本那是不是請各位委員我們就依照教育部提供的版本來討論可以嗎好 那我先念一下"},{"start":23834.871,"end":23862.523,"text":"一第十八條第一項或第二十一條第二款第三款停聘之教師停聘期間不發給待遇一第二十一條第一款第二十二條第一項第二十三條第六項停聘之教師於停聘期間不發給待遇停聘是由消滅後未受解聘或終局停聘處分並回復聘任者補發期停聘期間全數本薪瓜湖年工薪及增加"},{"start":23863.263,"end":23883.414,"text":"文字及學術研究家及依第22條第二項停聘之教師於停聘期間發給半數本薪瓜湖年工薪增加文字及學術研究家及調查後未受解聘或終局停聘處分並回復聘任者補發期停聘期間這邊"},{"start":23886.315,"end":23910.241,"text":"未發之本薪 未發之本薪 瓜湖年功薪及學術研究家級那看起來早上大家的質詢都蠻有共識就是剛才幾位委員的發言也大概往這個方向那如果大家同意同意嗎才遵守委員"},{"start":23916.861,"end":23933.09,"text":"我個人呢還是一樣對這個地域加緊呢我還是要提出看法為什麼其實早上我有講我們的校園其實就是期貨變貨已經為什麼會有這些問題應該就是消失會議的後嘛那那個第一"},{"start":23944.221,"end":23956.17,"text":"我覺得啦我覺得第一這個薪水他本來就已經發放了他本來他雖然沒有上班但是這些薪水還是放在學校"},{"start":23957.352,"end":23984.23,"text":"那換在學校的話 恢復了以後這個薪水還是換在學校的基金裡面 你就還給他而已嘛所以我覺得 而且呢 在偏鄉他本來就是 他也在那邊住駕 也已經住在那邊等候檢查嘛所以既然也沒有增加 那本來這個薪水也都在學校裡面那為何呢 我們對他的傷害也很大"},{"start":23984.69,"end":24013.889,"text":"他的一個尊嚴的受損難道就只有這幾千塊或者是說把這個誰是研究會的的這個錢給他之後就能夠彌補他的傷害嗎我覺得這個是需要大家再討論一下這是我個人我覺得應該要我認為我要堅持的地方好那蔡村首委員這邊有特別提到他希望把這個地域家籍放回去即便沒有上班"},{"start":24015.19,"end":24040.618,"text":"就是還是希望把地域加級加回去那這個部分是不是還是請教育部人事處長來請謝謝委員剛剛的那個說明那我這邊還是要強調一下就是這個條文其實是適用每一個教師那剛剛委員所提到的地域加級這個部分其實是"},{"start":24041.718,"end":24056.268,"text":"有在偏鄉或者是離島服務的教師才會發給並不是所有的老師他的薪資必然的有這樣子必然有的是本薪加學術研究這次每一位老師都"},{"start":24057.108,"end":24082.634,"text":"都有的那第一家級跟剛剛也有提到的主管支付價都是一樣的性質所以在這個條文裡面我們才會去講說你被冤枉後來復職的話應該是去回復他這兩項的一個心之結構所以我們建議還是維持學術研究家級就可以了大概是這樣"},{"start":24087.059,"end":24105.276,"text":"因為我們還有其他的教師待遇條例考核辦法等等有其他的法令那如果說在這個地方把它寫進這個文字它就會破壞那個就是其一性的部分因為這種特殊的部分有在其他的法條裡面規定"},{"start":24112.543,"end":24123.527,"text":"那其他委員有沒有什麼意見那林益謹委員先等蔡春嫂委員來請蔡春嫂委員"},{"start":24135.535,"end":24146.857,"text":"我有表達了啦我是覺得應該是因為你有增加啊你這些薪水本來就放在學校的基金裡面啦你也沒有增加然後他"},{"start":24148.765,"end":24175.61,"text":"我是覺得我們要鼓勵鼓勵就是說有人願意到偏鄉去那我們這些老師本來就是不容易然後呢我個人是這樣子啦我是覺得希望啦我希望能夠把這個偏鄉我講的也沒有幾個人啊然後呢這也是特殊對象啊還是可以考慮看看有 理解因為真的是名譽"},{"start":24176.71,"end":24192.523,"text":"無法用金錢回復啦那如果可以的話當然是很好我們只是怕那個體力上文字不知道會不會跟其他的法律那這裡可以稍微修一下嘛他只是針對一些偏鄉的特殊的一些人而且也不多"},{"start":24194.825,"end":24201.851,"text":"其實我某程度是非常支持就覺得說這個老師在這個調查的期間他是停聘的狀態嘛那既然這個還給他清白的時候其實他原本的薪水就應該給他可是現在卡在說"},{"start":24220.748,"end":24231.294,"text":"他停止的時候,其實一定有人代理的,代理他的節目嘛所以他這個所謂的地域家族,就代理他的節目,他把他抓起來"},{"start":24233.043,"end":24246.912,"text":"所以我意思是說,如果這樣算,你就大不敷出了嘛所以從行政系統來看,應該就是說就是那個學術研究家屬,這是最大條的這就是他的本分的一部分,以前說一般人的心碎就是他的心碎就是本分跟學術研究家屬,這條就叫心碎啦"},{"start":24256.238,"end":24263.58,"text":"所以這套薪水都給他 都給他 剩下的就叫做頂貼的概念頂貼 你不吃 因為你紅天節 你不吃陶爐所以你不做工作 應該這樣說所以你應該不用那個頂貼 我是這樣想的所以我們的原意其實就是 原本的薪水 該領的薪水要給人家"},{"start":24282.085,"end":24307.22,"text":"所以我覺得如果可以的話大家有共識只差在這一咪咪啦這個好不容易我們也都凹到下午然後大家都那麼辛苦三四一次會而且這個學術研究加起這個是大家如果有共識這是最好的就真的幫了這些被調查的老師們所以再請蔡委員拜託啦"},{"start":24308.48,"end":24312.664,"text":"不過我在這邊也是要補充因為從校事會議被討論各個委員輪番上陣質詢然後不斷的要求給予全心那也很感謝部長在質詢台上總是說"},{"start":24324.634,"end":24345.869,"text":"他個人相當支持所以呢就啟動了這個修法也看到這麼多的委員都把版本提出來那如果我們可以順利通過接下來我們就要請司法委員會排教師待遇條例的修法因為這個兩個都要連動修所以如果這邊快那邊也"},{"start":24346.71,"end":24368.501,"text":"可以順利進行應該我們這個會期我們就可以完成處理這個三讀所以可以讓老師早一點可以如果有遇到這樣的狀況讓他們可以安心好那還有沒有其他意見好那謝謝各位委員順利達成共識我們是不是就照這個還沒有好來來"},{"start":24374.175,"end":24377.437,"text":"當然謝謝前輩那我個人當然我也不要說我一直在阻擋這個但是我還是要強烈表達我個人的意願就是比較希望就是那個第一佳績那如果說大家都要做一個協商最後的一個決定我當然尊重但是我提的不是最苛刻不是最那個還有人就是要全部都要都必須要補償"},{"start":24401.055,"end":24417.338,"text":"那剛剛我們前輩講的就是說他是偏鄉但是我想這個是短期的一個代理有時候也就是在地人來兼的那這個偏鄉的老師也許是外地進來的所以我是覺得如果以情理來講我這樣提出也沒有什麼苛刻我們純粹是為老師嘛尊嚴都被受傷了這麼嚴重了補了那個一點點也沒有"},{"start":24431.041,"end":24452.617,"text":"也補償不了啦那當然啦我們還是尊重教育部來做一個協商那是我個人的意見是比較希望這樣子能夠對第一家級能夠考慮一下那個孫所委員你不用擔心你絕對沒有苛刻因為其實如果可以的話大家都覺得應該要全部回復只是因為在法令上"},{"start":24453.257,"end":24477.989,"text":"可能有一些沒有辦法這樣處理謝謝你的體諒也謝謝大家達成共識那我們第25條就修正通過好嗎好 謝謝那下一個53條比較單純因為好像只有只有民眾黨黨團有那個那是不是請大家看一下第53條那我們看一下一鏡一幕"},{"start":24484.764,"end":24500.575,"text":"好 已經一幕第53條本法施行日期由行政院定之那增加的這個修正文字是本法修正條文字公佈日施行好 請各委員發表意見"},{"start":24508.871,"end":24537.192,"text":"我們這個通過之後就可以試用這樣子好那人事處教育部同意嗎好那我們第53條照台灣民眾黨黨團提案通過好三思一次會好的好好今天的什麼"},{"start":24539.552,"end":24553.501,"text":"今天的審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響條文文藝前提下文字 條字及標點符號為統一體力授權議事人員整理列入記錄"},{"start":24555.789,"end":24579.499,"text":"關於本次會議做如下決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面資料或相關資料均列入記錄刊登公報對於委員諮詢時要求提供的相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆教師法第25條及第53條相關修正草案已全部審查完畢並按擬據審查報告提請院會公決請問"},{"start":24584.841,"end":24613.622,"text":"是否須交黨團協商不用交友黨 呃不報告委員會今日議程 有剛剛說不須 不用我要裁釋喔不須交友黨團協商議員會討論時由五兆級委員立法補充說明報告委員會今日議程處理完畢現在散會大家辛苦了"},{"start":24617.07,"end":24621.394,"text":"是不是因為初委員會我們是不是合照來合照"},{"start":24638.373,"end":24641.455,"text":"大家先看這台大家先看這台大家看這台大家看這台"},{"start":24670.433,"end":24674.961,"text":"好 大家看我這一台好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"17317","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17317","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302ddbbd6dedb4516fb0ff8229cb69af00fba7a9d5466ed3f814063f2d480079896d15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-04-01","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-04-01T08:39:02+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:41:00+08:00","duration":18118,"影片長度":"05:01:58","委員發言時間":"08:39:02 - 13:41:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1443.43409375,"end":1445.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1445.7122187500001,"end":1448.5472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1449.01971875,"end":1453.4578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1455.24659375,"end":1460.2078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1460.4778437500001,"end":1464.0384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1464.3422187500003,"end":1466.5528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1466.9915937500002,"end":1469.3709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1469.70846875,"end":1471.9190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1472.1890937500002,"end":1474.0284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1474.3828437500001,"end":1475.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1475.61471875,"end":1479.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1480.0528437500002,"end":1482.6178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1482.92159375,"end":1486.0772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1486.5665937500003,"end":1491.0047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1491.35909375,"end":1496.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1496.8265937500003,"end":1499.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1497.6028437500001,"end":1497.6534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1500.0159687500002,"end":1504.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1504.9772187500002,"end":1505.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1505.9222187500002,"end":1507.4578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1507.7615937500002,"end":1512.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1512.89159375,"end":1517.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1521.59909375,"end":1522.1222187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1523.2022187500002,"end":1525.4972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1525.96971875,"end":1530.2390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1531.16721875,"end":1531.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1532.44971875,"end":1534.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1535.67284375,"end":1537.6978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1537.8665937500002,"end":1540.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1541.98409375,"end":1542.3722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1542.4903437500002,"end":1544.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1546.4390937500002,"end":1549.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1550.4890937500002,"end":1552.8853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1554.37034375,"end":1556.9859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1558.2853437500003,"end":1561.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1561.55909375,"end":1561.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1562.53784375,"end":1565.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1565.6765937500002,"end":1566.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1566.9590937500002,"end":1569.0853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1569.4565937500001,"end":1570.8740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1570.95846875,"end":1574.5528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1575.1097187500002,"end":1576.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1576.3922187500002,"end":1578.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1579.66596875,"end":1580.3072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1581.25221875,"end":1584.1209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1584.5765937500003,"end":1585.0997187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1585.5553437500002,"end":1587.7322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1588.2384687500003,"end":1588.7615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1589.3015937500002,"end":1592.0353437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1592.3728437500001,"end":1593.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1594.1278437500002,"end":1594.5328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1594.8365937500002,"end":1597.2328437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1597.5028437500002,"end":1598.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1598.9034687500002,"end":1605.7547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1606.8515937500001,"end":1608.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1609.5853437500002,"end":1609.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1610.3784687500001,"end":1613.3822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1613.9390937500002,"end":1614.1078437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1615.1878437500002,"end":1619.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1621.71846875,"end":1622.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1623.5915937500001,"end":1630.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1631.6240937500002,"end":1631.9447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1632.55221875,"end":1635.9947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1636.1128437500001,"end":1637.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1638.2390937500002,"end":1641.4790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1642.0190937500001,"end":1642.3734687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1642.9303437500002,"end":1646.4403437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1647.8578437500003,"end":1650.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1652.0428437500002,"end":1652.3634687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1652.9878437500001,"end":1655.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1657.44284375,"end":1660.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1661.3409687500002,"end":1661.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1662.10034375,"end":1662.4715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1663.4165937500002,"end":1663.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1664.91846875,"end":1667.5509687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1668.0740937500002,"end":1668.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1669.0528437500002,"end":1678.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1680.0553437500002,"end":1683.2615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1684.7972187500002,"end":1685.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1686.0290937500001,"end":1686.3665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1688.3240937500002,"end":1690.6190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1690.8890937500003,"end":1693.3865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1701.0815937500001,"end":1702.5497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1702.8197187500002,"end":1713.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1714.96971875,"end":1717.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1717.51784375,"end":1722.5128437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1722.85034375,"end":1736.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1736.9747187500002,"end":1739.0840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1739.3878437500002,"end":1743.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1744.5347187500001,"end":1758.4734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1759.13159375,"end":1759.7728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1759.84034375,"end":1775.4159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1775.9222187500002,"end":1781.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1781.9972187500002,"end":1784.5453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1785.4059687500003,"end":1787.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1788.0215937500002,"end":1793.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1793.6240937500002,"end":1799.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1800.1378437500002,"end":1834.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1834.4278437500002,"end":1840.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1841.12721875,"end":1845.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1846.0884687500002,"end":1866.6253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1867.5197187500003,"end":1871.1815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1871.5865937500002,"end":1882.5553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1882.9265937500002,"end":1885.5928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1885.6772187500003,"end":1897.0340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1897.4897187500003,"end":1939.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1939.96409375,"end":1949.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1950.7640937500003,"end":1966.2553437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1966.9134687500002,"end":1971.2840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1971.7059687500002,"end":1975.4859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1976.26221875,"end":1990.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1991.16284375,"end":1994.1328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1994.9090937500002,"end":2003.9372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2004.6122187500002,"end":2015.6822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2015.9690937500002,"end":2029.3172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2029.4353437500001,"end":2041.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2042.34471875,"end":2045.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2046.4115937500003,"end":2061.2109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2061.3965937499997,"end":2072.4159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2073.1922187500004,"end":2075.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2076.34784375,"end":2081.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2082.15284375,"end":2095.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2096.0240937500002,"end":2097.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2097.44159375,"end":2099.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2099.97284375,"end":2102.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2103.76971875,"end":2115.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2115.48096875,"end":2125.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2126.6522187500004,"end":2143.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2144.2528437500005,"end":2152.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2152.90971875,"end":2154.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2154.36096875,"end":2170.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2171.05034375,"end":2181.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2182.25534375,"end":2182.9978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2183.4197187500004,"end":2185.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2185.79909375,"end":2190.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2190.97971875,"end":2195.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2196.70034375,"end":2201.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2201.6784687500003,"end":2202.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2202.38721875,"end":2208.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2209.13721875,"end":2209.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2210.20034375,"end":2244.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2245.35096875,"end":2247.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2247.20721875,"end":2263.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2263.9303437500002,"end":2264.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2264.68971875,"end":2268.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2268.26721875,"end":2272.4353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2273.3972187500003,"end":2277.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2277.41346875,"end":2278.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2278.7634687500004,"end":2295.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2297.2078437500004,"end":2298.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2299.0134687500004,"end":2302.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2302.3209687500002,"end":2314.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2315.3990937500002,"end":2316.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2317.0359687500004,"end":2321.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2321.96346875,"end":2321.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2322.1659687500005,"end":2325.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2325.3553437500004,"end":2350.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2351.54534375,"end":2366.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2366.80034375,"end":2373.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2373.2803437500006,"end":2379.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2379.7097187500003,"end":2391.5897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2391.91034375,"end":2403.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2403.5372187500006,"end":2407.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2407.58721875,"end":2414.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2414.57346875,"end":2420.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2420.78346875,"end":2424.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2424.9178437500004,"end":2435.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2436.39284375,"end":2475.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2475.55971875,"end":2481.4490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2481.76971875,"end":2494.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2495.80971875,"end":2499.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2500.6022187500002,"end":2503.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2503.72409375,"end":2508.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2508.9890937500004,"end":2515.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2515.90784375,"end":2527.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2527.1972187500005,"end":2530.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2530.8590937500003,"end":2534.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2534.9765937500006,"end":2539.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2540.0390937500006,"end":2545.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2546.80596875,"end":2548.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2549.5565937500005,"end":2551.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2552.0709687500002,"end":2561.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2562.8709687500004,"end":2567.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2567.71409375,"end":2572.5234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2572.89471875,"end":2590.6640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2591.05221875,"end":2606.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2606.6953437500006,"end":2622.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2623.0303437500006,"end":2631.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2632.0753437500007,"end":2645.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2647.3809687500006,"end":2648.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2648.96721875,"end":2649.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2649.13596875,"end":2667.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2667.5128437500007,"end":2677.4353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2677.8572187500004,"end":2678.5997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2684.5565937500005,"end":2685.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2689.63596875,"end":2691.4922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2692.11659375,"end":2695.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2695.60971875,"end":2697.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2698.0059687500006,"end":2699.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2708.2490937500006,"end":2728.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2729.4440937500003,"end":2731.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2731.53659375,"end":2734.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2734.9284687500003,"end":2739.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2739.8728437500004,"end":2748.6815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2749.2722187500003,"end":2752.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2752.7653437500003,"end":2754.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2754.7059687500005,"end":2758.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2759.43096875,"end":2767.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2767.86846875,"end":2773.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2774.09534375,"end":2788.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2788.86096875,"end":2794.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2794.9190937500007,"end":2801.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2801.43284375,"end":2802.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2802.34409375,"end":2803.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2804.68971875,"end":2805.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2805.34784375,"end":2822.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2822.8134687500005,"end":2826.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2826.7284687500005,"end":2845.9490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2850.4040937500004,"end":2852.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2855.1628437500003,"end":2856.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2856.5465937500003,"end":2864.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2864.5115937500004,"end":2865.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2870.82284375,"end":2871.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2872.32471875,"end":2874.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2874.5690937500003,"end":2874.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2874.67034375,"end":2875.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2876.40846875,"end":2877.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2878.8553437500004,"end":2880.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2880.27284375,"end":2885.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2885.5547187500006,"end":2885.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2895.9834687500006,"end":2963.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2963.4159687500005,"end":2963.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2963.75346875,"end":3002.8865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3003.9159687500005,"end":3019.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3019.55909375,"end":3039.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3040.3153437500005,"end":3050.6934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3051.6553437500006,"end":3091.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3091.56471875,"end":3107.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3108.5240937500002,"end":3134.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3134.6465937500006,"end":3135.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3141.64971875,"end":3142.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3145.2947187500004,"end":3150.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3151.36971875,"end":3156.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3156.6178437500002,"end":3160.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3160.4990937500006,"end":3166.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3166.6247187500003,"end":3170.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3170.7253437500003,"end":3174.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3182.14971875,"end":3185.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3190.8572187500004,"end":3191.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3191.7684687500005,"end":3192.4434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3193.2703437500004,"end":3239.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3199.5478437500005,"end":3199.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3239.96346875,"end":3255.3534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3249.34596875,"end":3249.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3255.6572187500005,"end":3260.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3256.5515937500004,"end":3257.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3260.07846875,"end":3260.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3260.3653437500006,"end":3262.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3260.7703437500004,"end":3260.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3262.6434687500005,"end":3263.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3265.56284375,"end":3275.0128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3275.2997187500005,"end":3276.0928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3276.29534375,"end":3284.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3284.4459687500002,"end":3285.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3285.0197187500007,"end":3286.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3286.53846875,"end":3286.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3286.5722187500005,"end":3286.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3286.58909375,"end":3287.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3286.60596875,"end":3288.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3287.75346875,"end":3306.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3289.1540937500004,"end":3289.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3304.6453437500004,"end":3305.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3305.03346875,"end":3305.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3306.1640937500006,"end":3318.6853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3318.17909375,"end":3323.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3324.03471875,"end":3330.3965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3330.64971875,"end":3337.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3337.29846875,"end":3340.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3338.2265937500006,"end":3338.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3339.2559687500006,"end":3340.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3340.9265937500004,"end":3342.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3341.02784375,"end":3341.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3342.6647187500002,"end":3343.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3342.76596875,"end":3344.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3344.89221875,"end":3347.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3346.6640937500006,"end":3348.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3348.8240937500004,"end":3358.7128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3357.59909375,"end":3357.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3357.6159687500003,"end":3378.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3358.8478437500007,"end":3359.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3359.9784687500005,"end":3360.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3360.01221875,"end":3360.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3360.9403437500005,"end":3360.9572187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3378.03471875,"end":3379.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3380.4647187500004,"end":3386.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3380.5997187500006,"end":3382.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3386.8603437500005,"end":3391.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3386.9784687500005,"end":3387.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3388.21034375,"end":3388.2440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3388.26096875,"end":3388.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3388.51409375,"end":3397.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3396.1415937500005,"end":3396.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3397.0865937500002,"end":3410.3165937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3410.7215937500005,"end":3412.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3411.5147187500006,"end":3412.3584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3412.4090937500005,"end":3425.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3425.03159375,"end":3425.7234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3425.7234687500004,"end":3425.7403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3425.7403437500006,"end":3446.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3446.3953437500004,"end":3450.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3448.60596875,"end":3448.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3450.7490937500006,"end":3451.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3451.7784687500007,"end":3451.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3451.96409375,"end":3466.3415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3452.16659375,"end":3452.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3453.97221875,"end":3454.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3462.2578437500006,"end":3462.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3466.3415937500004,"end":3478.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3466.72971875,"end":3466.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3466.74659375,"end":3466.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3466.93221875,"end":3466.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3477.88409375,"end":3478.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3478.2890937500006,"end":3479.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3479.03159375,"end":3490.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3480.06096875,"end":3481.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3490.5740937500004,"end":3493.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3493.9659687500007,"end":3516.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3515.31284375,"end":3531.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3519.41346875,"end":3520.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3521.7253437500003,"end":3521.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3521.9784687500005,"end":3522.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3522.67034375,"end":3523.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3523.3622187500005,"end":3523.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3523.4297187500006,"end":3523.8347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3531.0740937500004,"end":3542.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3539.0222187500003,"end":3540.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3542.02596875,"end":3546.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3542.0934687500003,"end":3542.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3546.97034375,"end":3548.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3549.13034375,"end":3559.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3553.8722187500007,"end":3556.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3557.87159375,"end":3572.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3569.0934687500003,"end":3576.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3575.45534375,"end":3578.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3577.9697187500005,"end":3587.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3587.5547187500006,"end":3587.7403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3587.7403437500006,"end":3588.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3589.3434687500003,"end":3599.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3595.7559687500006,"end":3596.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3599.7890937500006,"end":3614.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3602.45534375,"end":3604.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3614.4872187500005,"end":3614.5040937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3615.0440937500007,"end":3627.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3627.5147187500006,"end":3635.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3635.3447187500005,"end":3636.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3637.1503437500005,"end":3645.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3645.5203437500004,"end":3664.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3664.25159375,"end":3681.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3681.8522187500002,"end":3681.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3681.90284375,"end":3687.6065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3681.97034375,"end":3682.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3688.4840937500003,"end":3689.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3689.54721875,"end":3689.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3689.73284375,"end":3690.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3691.06596875,"end":3694.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3695.3015937500004,"end":3701.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3701.84909375,"end":3706.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3705.5447187500004,"end":3719.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3707.51909375,"end":3707.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3716.66534375,"end":3719.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3719.07846875,"end":3719.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3719.1122187500005,"end":3721.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3722.0653437500005,"end":3722.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3722.2003437500007,"end":3722.5040937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3723.2128437500005,"end":3728.8322187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3724.5290937500004,"end":3725.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3728.96721875,"end":3735.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3732.3084687500004,"end":3732.3253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3736.2234687500004,"end":3739.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3738.2315937500007,"end":3739.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3739.8515937500006,"end":3740.0203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3740.0203437500004,"end":3747.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3740.05409375,"end":3740.1047187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3747.9684687500003,"end":3771.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3751.3603437500005,"end":3751.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3751.56284375,"end":3751.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3751.6472187500003,"end":3751.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3766.6828437500008,"end":3766.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3771.8972187500003,"end":3771.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3771.94784375,"end":3771.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3771.9647187500004,"end":3773.9728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3773.9728437500007,"end":3777.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3777.0272187500004,"end":3777.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3777.48284375,"end":3777.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3777.60096875,"end":3777.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3778.0565937500005,"end":3785.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3778.09034375,"end":3778.2422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3778.2422187500006,"end":3779.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3785.73471875,"end":3789.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3788.4347187500007,"end":3791.4890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3791.7422187500006,"end":3802.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3801.8503437500003,"end":3803.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3802.5084687500002,"end":3804.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3804.4997187500003,"end":3818.9953437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3818.3203437500006,"end":3824.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3824.2772187500004,"end":3824.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3824.3278437500003,"end":3824.4797187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3824.4797187500008,"end":3831.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3832.2928437500004,"end":3864.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3865.04721875,"end":3866.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3867.29159375,"end":3868.3378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3868.7428437500002,"end":3869.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3870.1603437500007,"end":3878.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3878.54721875,"end":3880.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3880.67346875,"end":3880.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3880.9772187500002,"end":3881.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3881.09534375,"end":3881.9728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3881.9728437500007,"end":3881.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3881.98971875,"end":3882.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3882.22596875,"end":3882.2765937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3882.2765937500008,"end":3882.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3882.3103437500004,"end":3898.1222187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3895.5234687500006,"end":3905.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3903.1003437500003,"end":3903.4884687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3904.72034375,"end":3906.1378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3906.1378437500007,"end":3907.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3907.9772187500002,"end":3910.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3908.51721875,"end":3912.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3911.6053437500004,"end":3912.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3912.41534375,"end":3912.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3912.55034375,"end":3912.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3912.73596875,"end":3912.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3912.7528437500005,"end":3913.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3913.02284375,"end":3913.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3913.2928437500004,"end":3918.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3914.7947187500004,"end":3916.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3916.1278437500005,"end":3916.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3918.5240937500002,"end":3923.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3919.7390937500004,"end":3920.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3920.85284375,"end":3921.8653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3924.64971875,"end":3925.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3925.9659687500007,"end":3926.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3926.0165937500005,"end":3926.2697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3926.2697187500007,"end":3926.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3926.28659375,"end":3927.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3926.82659375,"end":3932.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3927.5859687500006,"end":3927.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3927.85596875,"end":3928.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3928.1765937500004,"end":3928.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3928.32846875,"end":3929.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3931.1972187500005,"end":3940.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3938.9765937500006,"end":3945.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3945.03471875,"end":3978.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3945.3722187500007,"end":3945.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3953.59034375,"end":3955.5984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3957.0665937500007,"end":3957.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3957.20159375,"end":3957.3028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3978.10971875,"end":3979.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3978.6834687500004,"end":3978.7003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3982.1765937500004,"end":3985.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3988.47096875,"end":3989.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":3992.40284375,"end":3996.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":3997.11096875,"end":3998.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":3999.15284375,"end":4003.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4005.90284375,"end":4006.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4007.82659375,"end":4008.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4008.5690937500003,"end":4008.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4012.39971875,"end":4015.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4015.53846875,"end":4015.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4019.6222187500007,"end":4019.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4019.82471875,"end":4020.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4020.0272187500004,"end":4020.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4020.48284375,"end":4021.0734687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4021.4615937500002,"end":4030.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4031.38409375,"end":4033.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4034.28659375,"end":4048.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4049.2715937500006,"end":4064.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4064.40846875,"end":4075.7315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4076.05221875,"end":4078.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4078.65096875,"end":4081.2159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4081.70534375,"end":4084.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4085.26596875,"end":4095.3065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4095.50909375,"end":4098.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4098.85034375,"end":4110.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4110.42659375,"end":4111.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4111.776593750001,"end":4114.206593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4114.64534375,"end":4123.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4123.217843750001,"end":4144.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4143.06284375,"end":4175.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4153.50846875,"end":4153.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4156.09034375,"end":4156.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4175.02409375,"end":4191.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4192.00034375,"end":4202.985968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4203.57659375,"end":4205.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4205.83784375,"end":4213.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4212.8915937500005,"end":4225.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4225.14284375,"end":4231.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4231.538468750001,"end":4237.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4237.24221875,"end":4237.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4237.64721875,"end":4248.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4249.4090937500005,"end":4251.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4252.00784375,"end":4253.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4253.96534375,"end":4256.564093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4257.374093750001,"end":4259.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4261.08659375,"end":4267.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4268.798468749999,"end":4270.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4270.38471875,"end":4273.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4273.65846875,"end":4278.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4279.024718750001,"end":4282.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4283.59784375,"end":4286.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4287.63096875,"end":4291.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4291.967843750001,"end":4293.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4294.78596875,"end":4296.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4297.435343749999,"end":4299.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4300.590968750001,"end":4301.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4302.16034375,"end":4306.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4307.155343750001,"end":4311.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4312.217843750001,"end":4313.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4314.71534375,"end":4315.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4316.470343749999,"end":4319.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4319.77784375,"end":4322.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4323.06846875,"end":4323.642218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4324.09784375,"end":4327.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4327.74284375,"end":4330.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4330.74659375,"end":4338.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4339.825343750001,"end":4343.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4343.82471875,"end":4361.189093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4359.24846875,"end":4363.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4363.163468750001,"end":4363.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4363.5009687500005,"end":4365.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4366.251593749999,"end":4368.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4368.39471875,"end":4368.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4368.884093750001,"end":4369.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4368.968468749999,"end":4370.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4370.0653437500005,"end":4378.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4380.089093750001,"end":4386.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4385.843468749999,"end":4386.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4386.467843750001,"end":4403.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4400.54159375,"end":4404.878468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4404.49034375,"end":4404.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4405.350968750001,"end":4407.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4408.118468750001,"end":4409.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4411.03784375,"end":4413.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4414.075343750001,"end":4417.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4418.07471875,"end":4420.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4422.1415937500005,"end":4423.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4424.419718749999,"end":4425.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4426.27596875,"end":4429.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4429.7353437500005,"end":4440.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4441.4803437499995,"end":4444.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4444.65284375,"end":4446.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4446.99846875,"end":4447.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4448.466593749999,"end":4461.831593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4461.831593749999,"end":4478.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4475.12909375,"end":4476.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4477.154093749999,"end":4479.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4479.95534375,"end":4485.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4485.692843750001,"end":4491.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4491.092843750001,"end":4493.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4493.35409375,"end":4500.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4500.81284375,"end":4513.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4512.692843750001,"end":4523.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4523.72909375,"end":4534.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4535.474093750001,"end":4540.300343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4540.671593749999,"end":4561.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4561.64721875,"end":4563.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4564.110968749999,"end":4580.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4580.59784375,"end":4586.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4587.128468749999,"end":4625.282843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4625.282843749999,"end":4630.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4631.054093750001,"end":4649.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4650.510968750001,"end":4652.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4653.02534375,"end":4658.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4658.96534375,"end":4677.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4677.139718750001,"end":4682.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4681.763468749999,"end":4681.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4682.87721875,"end":4688.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4687.38284375,"end":4688.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4688.294093750001,"end":4693.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4693.79534375,"end":4699.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4700.106593750001,"end":4702.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4703.380343750001,"end":4708.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4708.780343750001,"end":4711.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4712.25659375,"end":4714.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4715.04096875,"end":4716.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4716.91409375,"end":4718.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4727.1572187500005,"end":4728.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4728.6590937500005,"end":4730.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4731.00471875,"end":4732.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4736.97846875,"end":4737.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4737.450968749999,"end":4737.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4737.77159375,"end":4738.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4738.04159375,"end":4738.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4739.59409375,"end":4740.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4740.57284375,"end":4741.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4742.3447187500005,"end":4746.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4746.698468750001,"end":4748.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4748.436593750001,"end":4749.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4750.124093750001,"end":4752.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4752.419093750001,"end":4752.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4752.77346875,"end":4754.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4755.49034375,"end":4757.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4758.595343749999,"end":4759.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4760.8397187499995,"end":4761.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4762.27409375,"end":4763.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4764.687218749999,"end":4766.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4767.67409375,"end":4768.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4768.93971875,"end":4770.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4771.15034375,"end":4771.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4772.55096875,"end":4775.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4775.841593749999,"end":4777.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4777.444718750001,"end":4778.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4778.8622187500005,"end":4780.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4781.5790937500005,"end":4782.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4782.878468750001,"end":4783.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4784.515343749999,"end":4787.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4788.00846875,"end":4788.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4789.51034375,"end":4791.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4791.85596875,"end":4793.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4794.690968750001,"end":4795.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4796.142218749999,"end":4797.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4797.694718750001,"end":4799.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4800.44534375,"end":4801.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4802.234093749999,"end":4803.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4804.42784375,"end":4806.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4806.53721875,"end":4807.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4807.9715937500005,"end":4809.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4809.405968749999,"end":4810.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4811.0428437499995,"end":4813.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4813.89471875,"end":4814.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4815.464093750001,"end":4817.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4817.944718750001,"end":4818.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4819.530968749999,"end":4820.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4821.57284375,"end":4823.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4823.54721875,"end":4825.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4826.58471875,"end":4828.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4828.812218749999,"end":4830.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4830.550343750001,"end":4831.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4832.237843750001,"end":4832.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4833.689093749999,"end":4836.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4836.743468750001,"end":4838.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4838.7684687500005,"end":4844.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4845.19784375,"end":4847.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4848.53909375,"end":4849.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4850.429093750001,"end":4853.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4854.24284375,"end":4854.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4855.03596875,"end":4858.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4858.579718749999,"end":4860.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4861.026593750001,"end":4864.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4864.9247187500005,"end":4865.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4866.39284375,"end":4867.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4868.4178437499995,"end":4869.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4870.206593750001,"end":4871.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4871.657843749999,"end":4874.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4875.269093750001,"end":4876.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4877.20971875,"end":4878.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4879.8084687499995,"end":4881.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4881.76596875,"end":4882.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4882.98096875,"end":4884.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4885.259093750001,"end":4885.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4886.35596875,"end":4888.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4888.397843750001,"end":4889.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4889.69721875,"end":4892.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4893.460343750001,"end":4895.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4895.569718750001,"end":4897.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4898.32034375,"end":4899.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4899.75471875,"end":4901.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4901.40846875,"end":4902.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4902.38721875,"end":4903.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4904.243468750001,"end":4906.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4906.167218750001,"end":4907.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4907.905343750001,"end":4908.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4908.47909375,"end":4912.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4908.76596875,"end":4909.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4911.58409375,"end":4913.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4913.03534375,"end":4935.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4922.63721875,"end":4926.079718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4933.6903437500005,"end":4934.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4935.15846875,"end":4937.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4936.491593750001,"end":4937.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4937.841593749999,"end":4939.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4937.97659375,"end":4938.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4938.21284375,"end":4946.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4939.073468750001,"end":4939.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4947.173468749999,"end":4949.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4949.77221875,"end":4950.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4950.5653437500005,"end":4956.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4956.77534375,"end":4965.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4966.09034375,"end":4973.329718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4974.25784375,"end":4978.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4978.84784375,"end":4980.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4980.788468750001,"end":4981.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4982.526593750001,"end":4984.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4984.78784375,"end":4986.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4986.880343750001,"end":4990.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4990.7615937499995,"end":4992.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4992.14534375,"end":4992.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4992.58409375,"end":4999.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4998.186593750001,"end":5005.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5001.25784375,"end":5001.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5002.08471875,"end":5002.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5004.649718750001,"end":5025.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5005.965968750001,"end":5006.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5013.272843750001,"end":5013.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5017.00221875,"end":5017.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5017.03596875,"end":5017.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5017.18784375,"end":5017.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5024.64659375,"end":5026.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5026.09784375,"end":5027.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5027.21159375,"end":5033.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5033.87721875,"end":5034.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5034.265343749999,"end":5035.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5036.07096875,"end":5044.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5043.833468750001,"end":5043.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5043.884093750001,"end":5044.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5044.00221875,"end":5044.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5045.014718750001,"end":5048.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5048.153468750001,"end":5049.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5048.50784375,"end":5048.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5049.689093749999,"end":5050.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5050.56659375,"end":5060.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5060.573468750001,"end":5064.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5064.20159375,"end":5071.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5064.94409375,"end":5067.829718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5071.37346875,"end":5080.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5080.13159375,"end":5083.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5081.26221875,"end":5082.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5083.017218749999,"end":5113.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5083.10159375,"end":5083.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5083.253468750001,"end":5083.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5104.46534375,"end":5104.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5106.034718750001,"end":5106.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5106.05159375,"end":5106.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5107.6884687500005,"end":5108.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5114.151593750001,"end":5115.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5115.99096875,"end":5116.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5117.07096875,"end":5118.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5118.606593750001,"end":5119.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5121.0028437500005,"end":5121.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5121.9647187499995,"end":5123.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5124.02346875,"end":5124.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5125.170968750001,"end":5125.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5126.6053437499995,"end":5132.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5132.78159375,"end":5134.064093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5134.33409375,"end":5141.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5141.92784375,"end":5144.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5144.44221875,"end":5146.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5146.450343750001,"end":5151.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5151.968468749999,"end":5152.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5153.0653437500005,"end":5158.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5158.51596875,"end":5159.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5159.5115937499995,"end":5160.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5160.67596875,"end":5162.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5163.42659375,"end":5165.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5166.075968749999,"end":5169.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5169.56909375,"end":5170.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5170.98659375,"end":5177.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5177.939093749999,"end":5181.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5182.09034375,"end":5191.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5191.8778437500005,"end":5196.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5197.294718749999,"end":5199.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5200.3153437500005,"end":5202.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5202.593468749999,"end":5209.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5209.61346875,"end":5211.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5211.62159375,"end":5213.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5213.663468750001,"end":5214.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5214.72659375,"end":5216.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5216.852843750001,"end":5217.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5217.7978437500005,"end":5219.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5219.26596875,"end":5219.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5219.9072187500005,"end":5229.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5230.200968749999,"end":5232.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5233.10346875,"end":5236.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5236.815968750001,"end":5244.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5245.0340937500005,"end":5258.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5256.76221875,"end":5258.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5258.5340937500005,"end":5259.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5258.7197187500005,"end":5258.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5259.71534375,"end":5260.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5260.00221875,"end":5260.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5260.575968749999,"end":5260.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5260.74471875,"end":5260.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5260.862843750001,"end":5261.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5262.280343750001,"end":5262.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5262.921593749999,"end":5263.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5263.74846875,"end":5265.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5266.110968749999,"end":5267.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5267.663468750001,"end":5268.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5268.52409375,"end":5270.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5270.565968750001,"end":5270.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5271.25784375,"end":5272.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5272.50659375,"end":5273.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5274.16034375,"end":5274.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5274.71721875,"end":5275.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5276.32034375,"end":5277.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5277.737843750001,"end":5280.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5280.94409375,"end":5281.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5282.091593749999,"end":5288.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5288.82471875,"end":5290.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5290.27596875,"end":5301.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5301.7509687500005,"end":5306.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5306.3240937499995,"end":5307.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5307.6572187500005,"end":5311.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5311.3865937499995,"end":5315.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5315.63909375,"end":5316.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5316.837218750001,"end":5317.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5317.731593750001,"end":5321.376593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5321.376593749999,"end":5354.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5352.460343750001,"end":5370.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5361.825968749999,"end":5362.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5370.702218750001,"end":5370.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5370.887843750001,"end":5374.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5370.921593749999,"end":5370.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5370.972218750001,"end":5371.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5372.946593750001,"end":5374.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5374.819718750001,"end":5377.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5375.899718750001,"end":5376.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5376.06846875,"end":5376.220343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5376.220343749999,"end":5376.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5378.65034375,"end":5381.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5381.73846875,"end":5384.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5384.809718750001,"end":5387.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5396.97659375,"end":5403.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5402.325968749999,"end":5403.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5403.81096875,"end":5404.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5404.28346875,"end":5405.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5409.24471875,"end":5412.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5414.77971875,"end":5415.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5415.43784375,"end":5447.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5416.99034375,"end":5417.985968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5430.827843749999,"end":5430.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5447.905343750001,"end":5463.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5463.95346875,"end":5468.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5468.847218750001,"end":5475.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5475.61409375,"end":5477.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5477.95971875,"end":5485.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5485.350968750001,"end":5490.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5490.29534375,"end":5495.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5495.3915937500005,"end":5502.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5502.968468749999,"end":5503.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5503.87971875,"end":5509.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5509.6678437499995,"end":5571.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5572.22346875,"end":5572.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5572.71284375,"end":5580.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5580.222218750001,"end":5584.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5584.52534375,"end":5605.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5586.63471875,"end":5587.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5603.44221875,"end":5603.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5606.007218750001,"end":5606.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5606.07471875,"end":5612.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5612.2509687500005,"end":5628.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5618.140343749999,"end":5618.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5628.16409375,"end":5629.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5629.530968749999,"end":5630.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5630.25659375,"end":5634.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5634.458468750001,"end":5637.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5638.55909375,"end":5656.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5645.106593750001,"end":5645.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5645.1572187500005,"end":5645.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5645.849093750001,"end":5645.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5645.86596875,"end":5645.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5653.64534375,"end":5654.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5656.17659375,"end":5661.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5660.81721875,"end":5665.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5663.02784375,"end":5670.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5667.76971875,"end":5668.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5670.233468750001,"end":5678.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5680.544093750001,"end":5683.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5683.9697187500005,"end":5696.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5697.8240937499995,"end":5699.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5699.899718750001,"end":5713.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5713.93971875,"end":5714.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5715.23909375,"end":5721.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5718.05721875,"end":5718.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5722.107218749999,"end":5725.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5726.07284375,"end":5737.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5737.88534375,"end":5743.673468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5743.3865937499995,"end":5743.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5743.89284375,"end":5745.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5745.782843749999,"end":5757.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5747.622218750001,"end":5748.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5748.077843749999,"end":5748.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5749.950968749999,"end":5750.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5752.161593750001,"end":5752.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5752.634093750001,"end":5753.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5757.966593749999,"end":5762.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5762.77596875,"end":5767.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5767.905968749999,"end":5770.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5771.12909375,"end":5772.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5773.23846875,"end":5795.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5795.46284375,"end":5798.517218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5798.753468750001,"end":5802.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5803.3603437500005,"end":5816.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5803.84971875,"end":5804.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5806.954718750001,"end":5807.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5816.235968750001,"end":5820.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5821.14659375,"end":5824.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5826.0740937499995,"end":5826.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5826.90096875,"end":5839.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5839.97909375,"end":5840.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5840.08034375,"end":5841.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5840.097218750001,"end":5840.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5841.90284375,"end":5863.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5863.350968750001,"end":5868.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5868.700343750001,"end":5874.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5874.99471875,"end":5878.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5878.217843750001,"end":5889.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5889.929093750001,"end":5897.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5897.809718750001,"end":5899.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5899.632218750001,"end":5909.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5909.048468750001,"end":5913.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5913.94221875,"end":5919.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5919.224093750001,"end":5919.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5919.3084687499995,"end":5920.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5920.42221875,"end":5924.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5924.4384687500005,"end":5946.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5947.1522187499995,"end":5960.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5960.888468749999,"end":5972.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5972.54909375,"end":5974.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5972.565968750001,"end":5974.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5974.725968750001,"end":6000.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6000.44346875,"end":6003.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6003.7509687500005,"end":6007.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6007.59846875,"end":6008.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6008.155343750001,"end":6010.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6008.762843750001,"end":6009.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6010.905968749999,"end":6015.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6016.170968750001,"end":6035.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6036.20159375,"end":6037.298468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6037.55159375,"end":6043.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6043.89659375,"end":6059.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6059.72534375,"end":6066.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6066.28971875,"end":6068.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6068.5340937500005,"end":6068.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6069.00659375,"end":6071.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6072.16221875,"end":6073.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6073.56284375,"end":6076.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6076.14471875,"end":6078.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6078.692843750001,"end":6091.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6091.163468750001,"end":6095.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6091.55159375,"end":6091.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6091.585343750001,"end":6091.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6091.97346875,"end":6092.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6092.02409375,"end":6092.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6096.29346875,"end":6097.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6097.390343749999,"end":6097.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6098.63909375,"end":6102.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6102.925343750001,"end":6108.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6113.97846875,"end":6117.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6117.20159375,"end":6117.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6117.927218750001,"end":6118.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6119.22659375,"end":6120.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6125.40284375,"end":6149.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6125.72346875,"end":6126.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6126.24659375,"end":6126.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6129.06471875,"end":6129.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6134.616593750001,"end":6134.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6134.83596875,"end":6134.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6143.138468749999,"end":6143.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6143.44221875,"end":6143.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6150.090968750001,"end":6174.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6159.62534375,"end":6159.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6159.6590937500005,"end":6160.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6161.987843750001,"end":6162.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6174.644093750001,"end":6176.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6176.73659375,"end":6181.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6182.11971875,"end":6182.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6182.1365937499995,"end":6183.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6182.187218749999,"end":6184.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6184.819718750001,"end":6193.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6193.51034375,"end":6196.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6196.919093750001,"end":6198.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6198.15096875,"end":6199.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6199.65284375,"end":6218.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6218.856593750001,"end":6219.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6219.784718750001,"end":6245.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6245.991593750001,"end":6302.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6303.11346875,"end":6307.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6307.872218750001,"end":6309.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6310.42034375,"end":6408.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6409.27409375,"end":6435.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6436.155968749999,"end":6462.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6463.341593749999,"end":6466.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6466.56471875,"end":6469.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6470.327843749999,"end":6507.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6506.11971875,"end":6506.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6507.182843750001,"end":6515.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6509.140343749999,"end":6509.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6515.940968750001,"end":6544.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6544.45971875,"end":6544.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6544.89846875,"end":6545.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6546.417218750001,"end":6567.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6567.39284375,"end":6567.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6567.67971875,"end":6597.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6597.649718750001,"end":6620.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6620.751593750001,"end":6656.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6657.15096875,"end":6679.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6679.5947187500005,"end":6685.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6686.04096875,"end":6689.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6690.546593749999,"end":6699.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6702.62909375,"end":6702.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6703.27034375,"end":6706.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6706.47659375,"end":6709.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6710.003468750001,"end":6721.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6722.22096875,"end":6737.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6737.67846875,"end":6744.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6745.2215937500005,"end":6746.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6747.98909375,"end":6749.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6749.82846875,"end":6751.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6752.22471875,"end":6758.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6760.56096875,"end":6761.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6761.944718750001,"end":6764.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6765.06659375,"end":6765.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6766.163468750001,"end":6766.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6767.04096875,"end":6769.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6769.57221875,"end":6776.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6777.874718749999,"end":6798.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6798.71534375,"end":6799.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6800.16659375,"end":6801.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6802.157843750001,"end":6814.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6813.599093750001,"end":6815.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6814.32471875,"end":6814.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6815.40471875,"end":6816.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6817.14284375,"end":6818.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6818.475968750001,"end":6822.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6822.86346875,"end":6826.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6826.55909375,"end":6828.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6829.073468750001,"end":6833.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6834.2372187500005,"end":6835.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6835.97534375,"end":6836.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6836.21159375,"end":6842.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6843.0965937500005,"end":6843.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6843.53534375,"end":6851.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6848.22659375,"end":6849.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6851.432843750001,"end":6853.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6853.03596875,"end":6853.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6856.14096875,"end":6859.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6864.882218750001,"end":6866.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6866.7215937500005,"end":6875.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6882.82034375,"end":6884.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6884.659718750001,"end":6886.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6887.241593750001,"end":6888.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6889.165343750001,"end":6894.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6894.85221875,"end":6895.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6896.185343749999,"end":6898.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6899.104718750001,"end":6900.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6901.112843750001,"end":6904.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6904.437218749999,"end":6908.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6908.757218750001,"end":6908.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6908.77409375,"end":6910.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6908.92596875,"end":6909.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6909.465968750001,"end":6910.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6910.79909375,"end":6915.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6916.300343750001,"end":6917.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6917.329718750001,"end":6919.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6920.40096875,"end":6923.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6923.657843750001,"end":6924.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6925.00784375,"end":6927.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6927.741593750001,"end":6928.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6929.20971875,"end":6932.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6932.41596875,"end":6933.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6933.9853437500005,"end":6938.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6938.659718750001,"end":6941.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6942.608468750001,"end":6944.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6945.47721875,"end":6947.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6948.464093750001,"end":6950.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6951.33284375,"end":6951.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6952.46346875,"end":6952.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6953.91471875,"end":6955.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6956.513468749999,"end":6956.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6957.23909375,"end":6958.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6958.75784375,"end":6962.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6962.385968750001,"end":6963.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6963.80346875,"end":6964.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6965.052218750001,"end":6967.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6968.747843749999,"end":6969.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6970.452218750001,"end":6976.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6977.55659375,"end":6981.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6982.65284375,"end":6984.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6985.57221875,"end":6987.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6987.90096875,"end":6989.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6990.128468750001,"end":6992.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6992.575343750001,"end":6994.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6994.51596875,"end":6996.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6997.57034375,"end":6998.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6999.325343750001,"end":7000.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7000.27034375,"end":7001.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7002.19409375,"end":7005.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7006.17659375,"end":7007.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7008.20159375,"end":7009.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7009.70346875,"end":7010.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7010.02409375,"end":7014.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7014.47909375,"end":7014.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7014.732218749999,"end":7044.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7017.921593750001,"end":7018.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7020.62159375,"end":7020.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7033.98659375,"end":7034.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7045.124093750001,"end":7047.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7047.638468749999,"end":7049.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7049.78159375,"end":7056.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7056.936593750001,"end":7057.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7057.66221875,"end":7059.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7059.839093750001,"end":7061.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7061.59409375,"end":7062.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7063.60221875,"end":7066.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7066.33596875,"end":7086.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7068.9853437500005,"end":7069.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7069.390343750001,"end":7069.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7072.022843750001,"end":7072.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7077.91221875,"end":7077.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7077.99659375,"end":7078.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7078.18221875,"end":7078.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7078.857218749999,"end":7079.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7079.009093750001,"end":7079.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7083.19409375,"end":7085.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7085.74221875,"end":7090.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7090.28159375,"end":7090.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7090.38284375,"end":7091.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7091.68221875,"end":7098.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7096.964093750001,"end":7102.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7098.735968750001,"end":7099.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7102.88721875,"end":7106.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7106.903468750001,"end":7109.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7109.805968750001,"end":7112.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7113.130343750001,"end":7114.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7114.59846875,"end":7116.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7116.420968750001,"end":7117.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7117.60221875,"end":7118.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7119.05346875,"end":7120.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7120.50471875,"end":7121.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7121.2978437500005,"end":7122.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7123.727843750001,"end":7128.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7128.975968750001,"end":7131.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7132.958468750001,"end":7135.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7136.2997187500005,"end":7137.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7137.835343750001,"end":7139.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7139.657843750001,"end":7142.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7143.52221875,"end":7145.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7145.91846875,"end":7147.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7147.79159375,"end":7149.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7149.968468750001,"end":7150.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7150.98096875,"end":7151.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7151.942843750001,"end":7157.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7158.06846875,"end":7158.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7159.23284375,"end":7161.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7162.624718750001,"end":7165.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7166.421593750001,"end":7167.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7168.41284375,"end":7168.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7169.02034375,"end":7173.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7173.930968750001,"end":7176.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7176.7997187500005,"end":7181.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7182.62159375,"end":7185.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7186.5028437500005,"end":7188.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7189.489718750001,"end":7190.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7191.497843749999,"end":7196.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7196.239718750001,"end":7197.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7197.505343750001,"end":7198.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7198.534718750001,"end":7199.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7200.23909375,"end":7202.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7203.61409375,"end":7205.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7206.48284375,"end":7207.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7208.187218750001,"end":7210.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7210.2459687499995,"end":7213.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7210.634093750001,"end":7210.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7213.55346875,"end":7213.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7214.481593750001,"end":7217.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7219.020968750001,"end":7220.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7221.231593750001,"end":7222.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7223.189093750001,"end":7224.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7224.5897187499995,"end":7228.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7228.622843749999,"end":7231.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7231.89659375,"end":7237.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7237.75221875,"end":7243.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7244.35034375,"end":7246.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7246.864718750001,"end":7248.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7249.446593750001,"end":7250.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7251.927218750001,"end":7255.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7256.41596875,"end":7256.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7257.20909375,"end":7257.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7257.90096875,"end":7259.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7260.82034375,"end":7261.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7262.8622187500005,"end":7263.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7265.005343750001,"end":7267.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7268.16096875,"end":7269.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7270.169093750001,"end":7270.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7270.8778437500005,"end":7272.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7272.970343750001,"end":7274.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7275.2822187500005,"end":7277.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7278.62346875,"end":7280.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7280.64846875,"end":7281.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7282.825343750001,"end":7283.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7284.58034375,"end":7285.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7286.335343750001,"end":7287.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7289.59221875,"end":7291.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7291.27971875,"end":7292.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7293.827843750001,"end":7294.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7295.21159375,"end":7300.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7300.729718750001,"end":7302.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7302.889718750001,"end":7303.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7304.138468749999,"end":7304.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7304.88096875,"end":7305.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7305.640343750001,"end":7307.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7308.559718750001,"end":7309.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7309.84221875,"end":7311.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7312.069718750001,"end":7313.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7314.01034375,"end":7314.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7315.09034375,"end":7316.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7316.946593750001,"end":7317.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7317.874718750001,"end":7320.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7321.1990937499995,"end":7321.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7322.02596875,"end":7322.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7322.92034375,"end":7325.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7325.60346875,"end":7329.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7330.22721875,"end":7332.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7333.264718750001,"end":7334.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7335.28971875,"end":7336.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7336.89284375,"end":7338.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7338.39471875,"end":7340.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7340.03159375,"end":7342.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7342.61346875,"end":7353.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7352.60346875,"end":7361.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7360.33221875,"end":7361.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7361.68221875,"end":7361.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7361.800343750001,"end":7362.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7361.96909375,"end":7377.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7376.093468750001,"end":7379.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7377.91596875,"end":7378.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7379.805968750001,"end":7394.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7380.00846875,"end":7380.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7386.640343750001,"end":7387.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7388.04096875,"end":7388.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7388.68221875,"end":7388.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7391.92221875,"end":7394.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7394.841593749999,"end":7395.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7395.077843750001,"end":7398.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7395.786593750001,"end":7396.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7397.389718750001,"end":7397.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7399.077218750001,"end":7402.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7402.75596875,"end":7403.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7403.481593750001,"end":7410.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7410.34971875,"end":7410.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7410.40034375,"end":7410.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7410.72096875,"end":7410.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7410.80534375,"end":7422.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7422.66846875,"end":7444.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7428.405968750001,"end":7430.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7438.024718750001,"end":7438.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7441.65284375,"end":7441.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7441.872218750001,"end":7441.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7442.665343750001,"end":7442.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7442.715968750001,"end":7442.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7442.749718750001,"end":7442.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7444.92659375,"end":7445.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7447.84596875,"end":7451.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7456.04721875,"end":7456.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7459.4559687500005,"end":7460.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7461.48096875,"end":7464.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7466.104718750001,"end":7474.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7475.200343750001,"end":7478.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7478.710343750001,"end":7491.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7491.67034375,"end":7496.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7497.05346875,"end":7499.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7499.702843750001,"end":7501.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7501.913468750001,"end":7506.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7506.90846875,"end":7509.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7510.9247187500005,"end":7515.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7516.45971875,"end":7522.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7523.142218750001,"end":7527.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7528.204718750001,"end":7530.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7530.21284375,"end":7539.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7539.882218750001,"end":7543.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7543.93221875,"end":7549.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7549.65284375,"end":7552.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7552.960343750001,"end":7555.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7555.50846875,"end":7557.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7557.95534375,"end":7560.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7561.262843750001,"end":7564.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7565.65034375,"end":7580.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7580.07846875,"end":7592.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7592.97096875,"end":7600.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7600.22721875,"end":7606.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7606.673468750001,"end":7610.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7610.2509687500005,"end":7613.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7613.6259687500005,"end":7616.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7617.085343750001,"end":7618.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7619.667218750001,"end":7620.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7620.544718749999,"end":7622.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7622.9072187500005,"end":7626.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7626.43409375,"end":7631.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7631.6990937499995,"end":7633.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7633.75784375,"end":7638.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7639.90034375,"end":7643.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7644.034718750001,"end":7646.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7646.97096875,"end":7649.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7649.58659375,"end":7655.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7655.69534375,"end":7657.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7657.60221875,"end":7660.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7661.34846875,"end":7662.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7662.52971875,"end":7662.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7663.23846875,"end":7664.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7664.11596875,"end":7666.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7667.288468750001,"end":7668.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7670.30909375,"end":7670.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7670.88284375,"end":7672.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7673.144093750001,"end":7674.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7674.1903437500005,"end":7674.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7674.34221875,"end":7676.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7676.97471875,"end":7697.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7698.54096875,"end":7698.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7699.823468750001,"end":7700.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7700.97096875,"end":7702.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7702.84409375,"end":7702.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7702.92846875,"end":7703.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7704.2615937499995,"end":7705.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7706.16846875,"end":7707.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7707.95721875,"end":7708.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7709.54346875,"end":7709.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7710.218468750001,"end":7710.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7710.2353437500005,"end":7710.454718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7710.454718750001,"end":7710.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7710.85971875,"end":7711.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7711.70346875,"end":7712.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7711.9228437500005,"end":7713.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7713.07034375,"end":7714.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7714.116593750001,"end":7717.204718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7717.592843750001,"end":7718.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7719.702218750001,"end":7720.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7720.495343750001,"end":7721.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7722.081593750001,"end":7723.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7724.12346875,"end":7725.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7725.794093750001,"end":7726.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7727.41409375,"end":7728.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7728.34221875,"end":7728.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7730.36721875,"end":7730.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7730.384093750001,"end":7740.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7740.795968750001,"end":7753.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7754.22846875,"end":7781.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7781.39721875,"end":7783.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7783.439093750001,"end":7790.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7790.425343750001,"end":7807.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7808.093468750001,"end":7809.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7809.6122187500005,"end":7810.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7810.067843750001,"end":7811.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7811.36721875,"end":7812.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7812.497843749999,"end":7812.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7813.4090937500005,"end":7814.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7815.24846875,"end":7817.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7817.999093750001,"end":7820.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7821.30659375,"end":7822.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7823.432843750001,"end":7825.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7825.440968750001,"end":7827.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7827.66846875,"end":7831.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7831.22909375,"end":7831.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7832.07284375,"end":7833.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7833.94596875,"end":7834.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7835.22846875,"end":7836.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7836.3759687500005,"end":7838.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7845.8934687500005,"end":7849.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7856.03534375,"end":7856.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7857.267218750001,"end":7863.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7864.304093750001,"end":7865.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7866.599093750001,"end":7867.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7868.30346875,"end":7870.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7870.69971875,"end":7873.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7873.4334687499995,"end":7873.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7876.015343750001,"end":7876.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7877.68596875,"end":7880.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7882.64721875,"end":7882.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7882.680968750001,"end":7883.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7883.609093750001,"end":7883.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7883.64284375,"end":7890.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7890.89909375,"end":7891.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7891.33784375,"end":7891.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7891.439093750001,"end":7891.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7892.2997187500005,"end":7897.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7897.64909375,"end":7902.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7900.33221875,"end":7900.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7902.6103437500005,"end":7906.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7907.03159375,"end":7910.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7910.339093750001,"end":7910.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7910.710343750001,"end":7913.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7914.034718750001,"end":7914.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7914.827843750001,"end":7915.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7916.0428437499995,"end":7916.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7917.3759687500005,"end":7922.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7922.97846875,"end":7922.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7922.995343750001,"end":7923.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7923.029093749999,"end":7923.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7923.40034375,"end":7936.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7937.32221875,"end":7939.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7939.499093750001,"end":7939.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7940.59596875,"end":7947.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7948.22346875,"end":7972.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7972.79346875,"end":7975.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7975.814093750001,"end":7981.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7982.54721875,"end":7994.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7994.86596875,"end":7997.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7998.66284375,"end":8000.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8001.177218750001,"end":8005.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8005.024718750001,"end":8062.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8049.456593750001,"end":8049.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8062.97346875,"end":8070.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8070.82034375,"end":8098.107218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8098.107218750001,"end":8098.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8098.37721875,"end":8116.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8102.325968750001,"end":8102.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8117.007218750001,"end":8119.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8119.724093750001,"end":8121.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8122.08659375,"end":8134.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8134.75971875,"end":8137.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8137.51034375,"end":8139.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8139.43409375,"end":8140.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8140.581593750001,"end":8141.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8142.67409375,"end":8146.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8147.44971875,"end":8153.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8154.233468750001,"end":8156.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8157.43971875,"end":8159.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8159.937218750001,"end":8162.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8163.1434687500005,"end":8172.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8172.930968750001,"end":8177.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8177.841593750001,"end":8178.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8179.107218750001,"end":8180.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8180.811593750001,"end":8189.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8189.02971875,"end":8189.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8189.654093750001,"end":8255.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8255.68596875,"end":8260.259093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8259.78659375,"end":8260.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8260.090343750002,"end":8260.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8261.187218750001,"end":8262.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8262.925343750001,"end":8267.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8268.44346875,"end":8270.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8270.957843750002,"end":8272.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8272.527218750001,"end":8293.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8294.262218750002,"end":8303.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8305.872218750003,"end":8323.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8324.012843750003,"end":8356.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8356.277843750002,"end":8359.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8359.922843750002,"end":8371.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8371.48221875,"end":8375.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8375.144093750001,"end":8376.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8375.39721875,"end":8375.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8376.81471875,"end":8391.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8391.495968750001,"end":8393.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8394.38159375,"end":8396.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8397.53721875,"end":8403.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8403.86534375,"end":8407.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8407.949093750001,"end":8426.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8427.33846875,"end":8427.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8428.55346875,"end":8430.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8430.426593750002,"end":8432.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8432.50221875,"end":8439.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8439.910343750002,"end":8441.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8442.222218750001,"end":8452.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8452.02659375,"end":8475.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8474.723468750002,"end":8475.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8475.195968750002,"end":8475.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8475.65159375,"end":8479.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8479.262843750003,"end":8479.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8479.38096875,"end":8480.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8480.680343750002,"end":8480.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8480.74784375,"end":8486.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8480.96721875,"end":8481.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8486.65409375,"end":8487.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8488.054718750001,"end":8493.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8493.167843750001,"end":8493.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8493.437843750002,"end":8496.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8496.32346875,"end":8499.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8499.36096875,"end":8505.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8505.33471875,"end":8528.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8528.84159375,"end":8537.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8537.430968750003,"end":8541.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8541.54846875,"end":8547.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8548.51784375,"end":8552.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8552.98971875,"end":8553.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8553.32721875,"end":8553.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8553.73221875,"end":8553.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8554.42409375,"end":8555.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8555.774093750002,"end":8583.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8584.00596875,"end":8584.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8585.204093750002,"end":8611.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8611.42784375,"end":8611.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8611.984718750002,"end":8612.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8612.00159375,"end":8621.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8620.202843750001,"end":8620.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8621.805968750003,"end":8624.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8625.957218750002,"end":8627.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8740.20096875,"end":8743.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9239.22846875,"end":9241.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9242.265968750002,"end":9245.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9257.47034375,"end":9258.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9258.938468750002,"end":9260.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9260.64284375,"end":9261.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9261.70596875,"end":9264.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9267.156593750002,"end":9268.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9268.202843750001,"end":9268.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9268.219718750002,"end":9268.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9270.430343750002,"end":9272.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9272.269718750002,"end":9280.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9281.129093750002,"end":9284.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9285.60096875,"end":9295.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9295.742843750002,"end":9296.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9297.160343750002,"end":9305.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9305.61471875,"end":9306.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9307.015343750001,"end":9308.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9308.48346875,"end":9310.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9310.84596875,"end":9323.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9324.04221875,"end":9327.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9328.29471875,"end":9329.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9329.374718750001,"end":9340.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9341.254718750002,"end":9349.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9349.18596875,"end":9357.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9356.864093750002,"end":9364.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9364.94721875,"end":9376.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9365.250968750002,"end":9365.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9376.253468750001,"end":9389.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9389.93909375,"end":9417.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9403.75971875,"end":9404.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9417.597218750001,"end":9417.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9418.289093750001,"end":9419.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9419.031593750002,"end":9420.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9421.64721875,"end":9466.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9434.792843750001,"end":9435.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9435.07971875,"end":9435.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9441.94784375,"end":9441.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9466.180343750002,"end":9466.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9466.281593750002,"end":9466.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9466.51784375,"end":9466.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9466.534718750001,"end":9467.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9468.171593750001,"end":9469.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9470.58471875,"end":9470.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9470.73659375,"end":9470.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9470.770343750002,"end":9470.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9470.78721875,"end":9470.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9471.512843750003,"end":9473.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9473.89221875,"end":9477.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9478.515968750002,"end":9481.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9481.65471875,"end":9483.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9483.696593750003,"end":9483.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9484.422218750002,"end":9486.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9486.700343750003,"end":9488.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9489.56909375,"end":9492.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9492.50534375,"end":9493.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9493.602218750002,"end":9494.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9494.88471875,"end":9496.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9496.707218750002,"end":9499.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9499.187843750002,"end":9511.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9512.35034375,"end":9532.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9533.410343750002,"end":9533.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9534.304718750001,"end":9535.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9535.87409375,"end":9536.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9537.13971875,"end":9537.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9538.28721875,"end":9539.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9540.379718750002,"end":9543.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9543.87284375,"end":9549.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9550.16721875,"end":9551.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9551.922218750002,"end":9552.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9552.32721875,"end":9563.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9563.59971875,"end":9569.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9570.805343750002,"end":9573.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9573.640343750001,"end":9577.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":9576.69471875,"end":9577.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9578.652218750001,"end":9604.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9604.487843750001,"end":9626.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9626.52659375,"end":9657.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9657.660968750002,"end":9665.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9665.507843750001,"end":9668.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9668.76471875,"end":9669.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9669.827843750001,"end":9676.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9677.117843750002,"end":9684.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9684.62721875,"end":9686.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9686.58471875,"end":9687.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9687.63096875,"end":9697.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9697.840343750002,"end":9700.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9701.164718750002,"end":9708.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9709.062218750001,"end":9710.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9711.20534375,"end":9711.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9711.77909375,"end":9712.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9713.38221875,"end":9756.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9756.278468750003,"end":9759.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9759.78846875,"end":9763.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9764.61471875,"end":9773.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9773.44034375,"end":9775.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9776.207843750002,"end":9777.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9777.895343750002,"end":9784.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9785.15159375,"end":9786.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9786.02909375,"end":9786.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9786.46784375,"end":9826.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9826.00596875,"end":9826.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9826.27596875,"end":9826.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9826.292843750001,"end":9826.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9826.32659375,"end":9826.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9826.664093750001,"end":9835.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9835.48971875,"end":9858.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9858.81096875,"end":9859.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9859.95846875,"end":9861.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9862.000343750002,"end":9863.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9863.687843750002,"end":9864.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9865.25721875,"end":9865.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9866.50596875,"end":9868.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9868.649093750002,"end":9870.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9870.555968750003,"end":9891.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9892.35846875,"end":9901.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9901.42034375,"end":9909.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9910.54971875,"end":9911.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9911.781593750002,"end":9919.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9919.695968750002,"end":9920.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9920.843468750001,"end":9921.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9921.61971875,"end":9922.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9923.712218750003,"end":9925.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9925.382843750001,"end":9925.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9925.41659375,"end":9925.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9925.500968750002,"end":9925.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9925.652843750002,"end":9926.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9926.26034375,"end":9926.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9926.277218750001,"end":9926.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9926.41221875,"end":9926.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9926.800343750001,"end":9966.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9967.148468750001,"end":9967.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9967.519718750002,"end":9967.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9967.992218750001,"end":9968.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9968.75159375,"end":9969.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9970.65846875,"end":9973.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9974.25284375,"end":9976.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9982.58909375,"end":9983.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9985.778468750003,"end":9987.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9988.17471875,"end":9989.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9990.58784375,"end":9992.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9993.13596875,"end":9993.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9994.65471875,"end":9995.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9996.004718750002,"end":9997.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9998.434718750003,"end":10000.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10000.83096875,"end":10001.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10002.51846875,"end":10004.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10004.965343750002,"end":10004.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10004.98221875,"end":10004.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10004.99909375,"end":10005.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10005.03284375,"end":10005.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10005.08346875,"end":10005.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10007.36159375,"end":10009.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10013.352218750002,"end":10013.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10013.723468750002,"end":10014.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10015.410968750002,"end":10017.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10018.465343750002,"end":10019.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10019.59596875,"end":10022.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10022.734718750002,"end":10022.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10022.97096875,"end":10024.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10024.91159375,"end":10025.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10026.51471875,"end":10031.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10032.45471875,"end":10033.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10033.652843750002,"end":10033.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10034.31096875,"end":10035.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10035.03659375,"end":10035.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10035.25596875,"end":10035.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10035.289718750002,"end":10036.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10036.032218750002,"end":10036.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10036.11659375,"end":10036.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10036.234718750002,"end":10036.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10036.875968750002,"end":10038.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10038.293468750002,"end":10042.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10039.67721875,"end":10041.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10042.664093750001,"end":10043.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10043.91284375,"end":10045.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10045.195343750001,"end":10063.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10052.384093750003,"end":10053.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10054.86471875,"end":10055.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10058.67846875,"end":10058.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10058.745968750001,"end":10058.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10058.796593750001,"end":10058.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10063.69034375,"end":10066.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10066.035968750002,"end":10074.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10074.96284375,"end":10076.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10076.835968750001,"end":10082.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10082.691593750002,"end":10085.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10082.70846875,"end":10083.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10086.42096875,"end":10088.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10088.496593750002,"end":10089.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10093.96409375,"end":10094.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10094.402843750002,"end":10094.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10094.672843750002,"end":10095.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10095.820343750001,"end":10095.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10096.461593750002,"end":10096.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10096.52909375,"end":10104.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10098.030968750001,"end":10098.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10103.430968750003,"end":10103.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10103.54909375,"end":10104.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10104.03846875,"end":10106.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10104.39284375,"end":10104.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10107.362843750001,"end":10108.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10109.067218750002,"end":10115.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10114.21409375,"end":10116.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10115.85096875,"end":10117.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10118.230343750001,"end":10119.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10120.74471875,"end":10122.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10123.782218750002,"end":10127.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10128.33846875,"end":10134.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10134.98721875,"end":10136.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10137.55221875,"end":10138.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10139.66159375,"end":10140.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10141.66971875,"end":10142.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10142.969093750002,"end":10145.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10146.32721875,"end":10148.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10148.84159375,"end":10150.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10151.187218750001,"end":10152.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10153.00971875,"end":10156.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10157.042843750001,"end":10159.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10159.540343750003,"end":10162.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10163.320343750001,"end":10167.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10163.77596875,"end":10165.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10168.079093750002,"end":10170.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10170.84659375,"end":10174.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10174.94721875,"end":10177.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10178.11971875,"end":10180.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10181.882843750001,"end":10183.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10184.582843750002,"end":10185.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10186.08471875,"end":10188.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10189.594718750002,"end":10190.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10190.55659375,"end":10190.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10191.02909375,"end":10199.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10200.192218750002,"end":10202.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10202.504093750002,"end":10206.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10206.28409375,"end":10206.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10206.58784375,"end":10207.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10208.49471875,"end":10210.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10210.75596875,"end":10211.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10211.27909375,"end":10221.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10221.87659375,"end":10225.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10225.53846875,"end":10227.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10225.808468750001,"end":10238.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10239.375968750002,"end":10240.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10242.312218750001,"end":10242.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10246.530968750001,"end":10247.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10247.67846875,"end":10248.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10248.99471875,"end":10249.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10250.88471875,"end":10252.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10253.53409375,"end":10255.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10255.96409375,"end":10255.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10255.980968750002,"end":10258.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10259.06909375,"end":10259.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10260.85784375,"end":10263.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10260.891593750002,"end":10262.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10263.844718750002,"end":10264.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10265.734718750002,"end":10267.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10269.02534375,"end":10270.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10271.40471875,"end":10273.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10273.902218750001,"end":10274.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10275.04971875,"end":10275.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10275.92721875,"end":10278.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10278.72846875,"end":10281.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10281.68159375,"end":10283.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10283.79096875,"end":10285.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10285.815968750001,"end":10286.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10287.26721875,"end":10288.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10288.92096875,"end":10291.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10292.633468750002,"end":10294.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10294.844093750002,"end":10297.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10297.76346875,"end":10298.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10299.585968750001,"end":10301.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10301.796593750001,"end":10302.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10303.484093750001,"end":10305.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10306.52159375,"end":10309.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10309.64346875,"end":10311.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10311.887843750003,"end":10314.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10315.262843750003,"end":10317.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10317.27096875,"end":10317.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10317.92909375,"end":10318.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10318.469093750002,"end":10319.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10320.51096875,"end":10322.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10322.87346875,"end":10324.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10325.70846875,"end":10327.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10328.543468750002,"end":10328.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10328.56034375,"end":10354.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10354.76721875,"end":10358.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10360.53846875,"end":10367.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10367.946593750003,"end":10370.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10370.528468750003,"end":10371.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10371.996593750002,"end":10376.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10376.87346875,"end":10378.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10378.67909375,"end":10396.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10396.296593750001,"end":10402.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10403.23221875,"end":10405.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10406.489093750002,"end":10407.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10406.894093750001,"end":10409.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10410.45471875,"end":10411.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10412.78346875,"end":10416.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10416.765968750002,"end":10418.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10419.128468750001,"end":10424.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10424.84909375,"end":10426.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10427.27909375,"end":10432.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10428.17346875,"end":10428.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10428.46034375,"end":10428.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10432.93221875,"end":10441.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10441.707218750002,"end":10445.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10442.04471875,"end":10442.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10446.17909375,"end":10448.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10447.934093750002,"end":10448.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10448.96346875,"end":10449.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10449.030968750001,"end":10449.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10449.97596875,"end":10450.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10450.02659375,"end":10453.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10451.258468750002,"end":10453.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10453.55346875,"end":10453.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10454.059718750003,"end":10455.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10456.40534375,"end":10459.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10460.067218750002,"end":10461.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10462.61534375,"end":10465.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10466.10846875,"end":10469.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10470.15846875,"end":10473.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10474.37721875,"end":10475.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10476.80721875,"end":10479.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10480.03034375,"end":10483.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10484.72159375,"end":10488.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10489.109093750001,"end":10491.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10492.281593750002,"end":10495.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10495.977218750002,"end":10502.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10500.668468750002,"end":10502.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10502.44034375,"end":10502.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10502.59221875,"end":10502.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10502.64284375,"end":10502.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10502.69346875,"end":10503.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10502.74409375,"end":10504.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10504.195343750001,"end":10511.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10504.27971875,"end":10504.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10511.333468750003,"end":10512.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10513.054718750001,"end":10513.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10514.77596875,"end":10516.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10516.83471875,"end":10517.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10518.117218750001,"end":10518.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10519.551593750002,"end":10521.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10521.99846875,"end":10524.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10524.85034375,"end":10526.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10526.04846875,"end":10527.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10527.90471875,"end":10532.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10527.938468750002,"end":10528.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10529.659718750001,"end":10531.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10532.882843750001,"end":10535.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10536.308468750001,"end":10540.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10541.370968750001,"end":10543.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10544.35784375,"end":10546.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10547.969093750002,"end":10548.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10549.69034375,"end":10552.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10553.47034375,"end":10554.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10556.17034375,"end":10558.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10558.92096875,"end":10559.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10559.07284375,"end":10560.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10560.97971875,"end":10562.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10563.426593750002,"end":10564.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10564.97909375,"end":10566.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10567.054718750001,"end":10569.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10569.012218750002,"end":10569.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10569.805343750002,"end":10571.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10572.015968750002,"end":10573.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10573.61909375,"end":10575.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10576.065968750001,"end":10577.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10578.664718750002,"end":10579.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10579.829093750002,"end":10582.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10583.17034375,"end":10586.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10587.11909375,"end":10593.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10592.586593750002,"end":10605.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10593.480968750002,"end":10594.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10605.023468750001,"end":10607.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10608.128468750001,"end":10611.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10611.95909375,"end":10618.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10613.781593750002,"end":10614.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10619.215343750002,"end":10625.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10622.117843750002,"end":10622.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10622.52284375,"end":10622.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10624.26096875,"end":10624.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10624.497218750003,"end":10627.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10626.083468750003,"end":10626.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10626.117218750001,"end":10626.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10626.37034375,"end":10627.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10628.395343750002,"end":10628.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10628.41221875,"end":10629.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10631.179718750001,"end":10633.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10635.870968750001,"end":10638.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10645.152218750001,"end":10645.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10645.793468750002,"end":10650.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10651.007843750001,"end":10652.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10652.62784375,"end":10653.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10654.399718750003,"end":10656.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10655.294093750003,"end":10658.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10656.94784375,"end":10657.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10662.887843750003,"end":10669.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10663.05659375,"end":10663.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10670.34659375,"end":10672.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10672.87784375,"end":10694.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10678.581593750001,"end":10678.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10694.612843750001,"end":10702.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10702.324718750002,"end":10708.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10709.294093750003,"end":10715.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10715.352218750002,"end":10718.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10718.980343750001,"end":10723.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10724.515343750001,"end":10737.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10738.454093750002,"end":10744.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10743.719093750002,"end":10746.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10746.01409375,"end":10753.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10752.949718750002,"end":10755.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10755.24471875,"end":10764.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10757.23596875,"end":10757.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10765.25159375,"end":10780.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10780.219718750002,"end":10789.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10783.847843750002,"end":10784.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10789.602218750002,"end":10791.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10791.52596875,"end":10792.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10792.555343750002,"end":10793.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10794.05721875,"end":10796.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10795.137218750002,"end":10808.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10808.687843750002,"end":10810.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10810.71284375,"end":10814.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10814.425343750001,"end":10814.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10814.50971875,"end":10814.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10814.543468750002,"end":10816.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10817.31096875,"end":10823.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10823.58846875,"end":10829.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10829.460968750001,"end":10832.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10832.380343750003,"end":10839.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10839.704093750002,"end":10844.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10843.51784375,"end":10843.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10844.817218750002,"end":10850.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10849.17096875,"end":10860.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10861.08471875,"end":10862.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10862.72159375,"end":10868.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10868.47596875,"end":10873.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10873.487843750001,"end":10874.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10878.80346875,"end":10879.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10879.15784375,"end":10879.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10879.32659375,"end":10892.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10893.50159375,"end":10915.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10913.110343750002,"end":10923.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10923.87659375,"end":10929.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10929.95159375,"end":10931.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10930.035968750002,"end":10959.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10960.191593750002,"end":10967.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10968.07221875,"end":10979.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10980.82971875,"end":10984.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10985.402843750002,"end":10996.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10986.550343750001,"end":10986.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10996.86096875,"end":11001.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11001.552218750003,"end":11015.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11015.81159375,"end":11029.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11030.762843750003,"end":11031.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11032.19721875,"end":11033.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11033.90159375,"end":11035.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11033.918468750002,"end":11038.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11035.487843750001,"end":11035.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11035.58909375,"end":11035.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11035.605968750002,"end":11035.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11035.63971875,"end":11036.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11038.305968750003,"end":11048.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11048.76846875,"end":11080.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11079.83534375,"end":11080.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11080.61159375,"end":11080.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11080.965968750003,"end":11082.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11082.653468750003,"end":11092.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11092.710968750001,"end":11102.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11096.96346875,"end":11097.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11102.430968750003,"end":11128.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11128.65471875,"end":11144.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11128.671593750001,"end":11128.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11129.02596875,"end":11129.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11130.578468750002,"end":11130.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11134.206593750001,"end":11134.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11134.965968750003,"end":11135.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11135.20221875,"end":11135.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11135.35409375,"end":11135.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11145.10784375,"end":11146.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11146.879718750002,"end":11148.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11148.70221875,"end":11154.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11154.203468750002,"end":11167.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11167.973468750002,"end":11170.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11170.133468750002,"end":11173.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11174.01471875,"end":11178.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11176.410968750002,"end":11176.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11179.11096875,"end":11208.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11187.46409375,"end":11188.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11198.247218750003,"end":11198.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11205.098468750002,"end":11205.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11208.524093750002,"end":11215.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11213.468468750001,"end":11220.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11220.488468750002,"end":11225.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11224.707218750002,"end":11225.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11225.601593750001,"end":11225.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11225.68596875,"end":11225.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11225.83784375,"end":11225.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11226.563468750002,"end":11229.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11231.81159375,"end":11235.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11243.961593750002,"end":11246.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11246.273468750001,"end":11248.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11246.290343750003,"end":11246.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11248.24784375,"end":11248.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11252.972843750002,"end":11253.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11253.833468750003,"end":11254.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11255.31846875,"end":11257.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11257.37721875,"end":11263.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11263.266593750002,"end":11266.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11266.253468750001,"end":11278.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11278.79159375,"end":11288.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11289.13596875,"end":11294.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11295.261593750001,"end":11316.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11302.804718750001,"end":11302.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11316.43971875,"end":11345.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11320.844093750002,"end":11321.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11347.43909375,"end":11372.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11372.144093750001,"end":11375.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11375.316593750002,"end":11376.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11376.059093750002,"end":11376.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11376.97034375,"end":11377.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11377.020968750003,"end":11377.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11377.544093750003,"end":11412.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11412.509093750003,"end":11418.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11418.027218750001,"end":11439.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11440.757843750001,"end":11455.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11455.995968750001,"end":11456.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11456.55284375,"end":11456.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11456.586593750002,"end":11456.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11456.60346875,"end":11467.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11468.43284375,"end":11473.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11474.052218750003,"end":11476.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11477.140343750001,"end":11480.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11480.380343750003,"end":11483.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11483.637218750002,"end":11485.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11485.746593750002,"end":11487.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11488.68284375,"end":11494.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11495.078468750002,"end":11502.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11501.54159375,"end":11502.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11502.840968750003,"end":11503.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11503.262843750003,"end":11512.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11513.320343750001,"end":11514.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11515.075343750003,"end":11526.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11526.58409375,"end":11549.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11549.80409375,"end":11562.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11563.000343750002,"end":11586.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11587.40159375,"end":11609.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11610.773468750001,"end":11618.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11618.789093750001,"end":11620.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11619.177218750003,"end":11624.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11624.45909375,"end":11626.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11631.25971875,"end":11635.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11635.44471875,"end":11635.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11635.86659375,"end":11636.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11636.27159375,"end":11644.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11645.215343750002,"end":11658.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11659.187843750002,"end":11674.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11674.965968750003,"end":11707.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11707.61909375,"end":11718.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11718.874718750001,"end":11733.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11718.90846875,"end":11719.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11720.140343750001,"end":11720.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11733.20159375,"end":11754.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11754.02534375,"end":11754.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11755.645343750002,"end":11755.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11755.66221875,"end":11770.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11770.32659375,"end":11770.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11770.630343750003,"end":11779.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11779.87784375,"end":11800.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11801.427218750003,"end":11803.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11803.620968750001,"end":11829.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11829.034718750001,"end":11857.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11858.32971875,"end":11877.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11877.75284375,"end":11884.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11886.426593750002,"end":11907.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11907.030968750001,"end":11915.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11907.33471875,"end":11908.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11913.848468750002,"end":11914.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11915.19846875,"end":11921.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11920.277843750002,"end":11928.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11938.688468750002,"end":11942.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11942.56971875,"end":11943.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11944.493468750003,"end":11944.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11945.387843750003,"end":11946.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11950.19721875,"end":11953.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11953.58909375,"end":11956.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11956.69409375,"end":11957.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11958.31409375,"end":11965.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11964.97971875,"end":11965.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11965.469093750002,"end":11967.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11967.93284375,"end":11971.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11971.695968750002,"end":11974.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11974.480343750001,"end":11992.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11993.24534375,"end":11997.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11998.425968750002,"end":12004.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12004.58534375,"end":12007.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12007.96034375,"end":12026.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12026.809718750003,"end":12028.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12029.13846875,"end":12054.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12054.906593750002,"end":12065.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12066.80346875,"end":12069.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12067.96784375,"end":12068.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12070.262843750003,"end":12070.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12071.055968750003,"end":12071.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12071.71409375,"end":12072.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12071.79846875,"end":12071.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12072.01784375,"end":12072.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12072.49034375,"end":12077.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12077.586593750002,"end":12083.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12083.965343750002,"end":12084.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12084.62346875,"end":12087.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12087.593468750001,"end":12091.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12092.41971875,"end":12098.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12098.309093750002,"end":12098.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12098.39346875,"end":12101.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12098.427218750003,"end":12098.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12098.460968750001,"end":12098.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12101.515343750001,"end":12117.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12117.597218750001,"end":12141.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12141.10409375,"end":12141.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12141.222218750001,"end":12141.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12141.30659375,"end":12142.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12142.31909375,"end":12151.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12151.667843750001,"end":12176.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12176.237843750001,"end":12191.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12182.937218750001,"end":12183.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12191.340968750003,"end":12194.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12194.665343750003,"end":12199.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12199.609718750002,"end":12214.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12207.794093750003,"end":12207.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12214.864718750003,"end":12217.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12218.25659375,"end":12218.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12218.745968750001,"end":12220.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12223.437218750001,"end":12231.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12231.047843750002,"end":12238.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12238.75971875,"end":12244.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12243.36659375,"end":12248.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12249.559718750003,"end":12262.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12263.12721875,"end":12265.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12266.08034375,"end":12268.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12267.902843750002,"end":12269.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12269.72534375,"end":12283.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12280.440968750001,"end":12280.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12280.89659375,"end":12283.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12283.64721875,"end":12287.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12288.08534375,"end":12293.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12293.60346875,"end":12294.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12295.695968750002,"end":12304.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12305.83784375,"end":12306.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12307.10346875,"end":12313.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12314.140343750001,"end":12337.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12337.512218750002,"end":12337.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12337.630343750003,"end":12338.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12338.06909375,"end":12338.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12338.997218750003,"end":12343.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12341.17409375,"end":12341.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12344.02596875,"end":12349.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12350.13471875,"end":12350.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12350.15159375,"end":12350.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12350.20221875,"end":12350.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12350.269718750002,"end":12352.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12350.30346875,"end":12350.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12350.337218750003,"end":12350.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12350.387843750003,"end":12350.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12350.421593750001,"end":12350.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12353.08784375,"end":12357.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12357.509093750003,"end":12363.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12364.96784375,"end":12365.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12365.06909375,"end":12369.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12366.38534375,"end":12367.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12368.86596875,"end":12374.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12375.059093750002,"end":12377.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12378.36659375,"end":12395.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12395.79846875,"end":12399.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12400.18596875,"end":12405.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12407.05409375,"end":12411.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12411.35721875,"end":12434.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12416.082218750002,"end":12416.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12434.644718750002,"end":12445.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12445.59659375,"end":12462.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12455.215343750002,"end":12455.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12461.813468750002,"end":12464.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12462.87659375,"end":12474.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12468.563468750002,"end":12468.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12474.925343750001,"end":12483.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12481.219718750002,"end":12481.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12481.23659375,"end":12481.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12483.39659375,"end":12483.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12483.734093750001,"end":12487.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12487.969718750002,"end":12492.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12491.175968750002,"end":12492.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12494.06159375,"end":12494.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12495.344093750002,"end":12500.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12500.676593750002,"end":12500.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12500.79471875,"end":12501.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12501.199718750002,"end":12511.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12501.21659375,"end":12501.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12511.223468750002,"end":12511.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12511.45971875,"end":12521.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12521.145968750003,"end":12521.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12521.38221875,"end":12528.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12528.48659375,"end":12530.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12530.410343750002,"end":12530.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12532.418468750002,"end":12537.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12537.86909375,"end":12540.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12539.99534375,"end":12540.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12541.04159375,"end":12554.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12545.699093750001,"end":12545.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12545.715968750003,"end":12545.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12545.78346875,"end":12545.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12545.817218750002,"end":12545.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12545.969093750002,"end":12546.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12546.35721875,"end":12546.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12548.922218750002,"end":12550.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12550.27221875,"end":12550.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12552.567218750002,"end":12553.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12554.035343750002,"end":12554.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12554.22096875,"end":12554.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12555.149093750002,"end":12557.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12558.827843750001,"end":12561.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12573.593468750001,"end":12575.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12575.972843750002,"end":12581.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12578.774093750002,"end":12580.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12581.153468750003,"end":12581.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12586.75596875,"end":12587.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12587.34659375,"end":12588.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12589.050968750002,"end":12590.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12590.24909375,"end":12600.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12600.610343750002,"end":12610.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12610.75221875,"end":12617.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12618.12659375,"end":12618.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12619.24034375,"end":12621.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12622.649093750002,"end":12629.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12629.669093750003,"end":12633.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12634.10721875,"end":12635.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12635.997218750003,"end":12640.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12640.941593750002,"end":12651.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12652.09596875,"end":12659.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12659.74034375,"end":12663.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12663.60471875,"end":12666.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12666.70971875,"end":12668.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12668.734718750002,"end":12671.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12671.535968750002,"end":12673.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12674.50596875,"end":12678.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12679.14659375,"end":12691.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12692.17409375,"end":12693.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12693.321593750003,"end":12695.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12694.637843750003,"end":12696.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12695.81909375,"end":12696.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12696.679718750001,"end":12708.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12709.403468750003,"end":12715.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12716.676593750002,"end":12723.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12722.954093750002,"end":12724.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12725.02971875,"end":12725.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12725.805968750003,"end":12736.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12734.564093750003,"end":12739.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12739.305968750003,"end":12739.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12739.390343750001,"end":12742.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12741.094718750002,"end":12743.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12744.21659375,"end":12749.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12748.789718750002,"end":12751.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12751.641593750002,"end":12751.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12751.675343750001,"end":12753.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12754.965968750003,"end":12755.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12755.860343750002,"end":12758.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12758.003468750001,"end":12760.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12760.66971875,"end":12767.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12762.00284375,"end":12763.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12766.812218750001,"end":12771.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12770.33909375,"end":12774.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12775.01346875,"end":12777.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12778.45596875,"end":12783.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12783.83909375,"end":12804.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12804.46034375,"end":12807.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12807.329093750002,"end":12807.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12807.51471875,"end":12826.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12826.364093750002,"end":12829.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12829.587218750003,"end":12839.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12839.610968750003,"end":12840.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12840.809093750002,"end":12855.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12855.422843750002,"end":12857.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12857.380343750003,"end":12871.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12871.673468750003,"end":12882.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12883.570343750001,"end":12891.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12891.974093750003,"end":12893.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12894.15096875,"end":12895.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12896.445968750002,"end":12904.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12905.727218750002,"end":12917.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12918.02909375,"end":12923.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12924.222218750001,"end":12934.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12934.296593750001,"end":12939.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12938.633468750002,"end":12943.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12939.91596875,"end":12939.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12939.949718750002,"end":12940.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12943.493468750003,"end":12943.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12943.51034375,"end":12945.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12950.395343750002,"end":12953.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12965.54909375,"end":12966.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12970.324718750002,"end":12976.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12973.227218750002,"end":12973.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12978.05346875,"end":12978.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12979.302218750003,"end":12982.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12980.719718750002,"end":12980.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12980.753468750001,"end":12980.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12980.85471875,"end":12980.939093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12985.00596875,"end":12988.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12989.460968750001,"end":12991.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12992.312843750002,"end":12993.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12994.18596875,"end":12997.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12997.898468750001,"end":13001.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13002.30284375,"end":13003.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13003.922843750002,"end":13007.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13008.445343750001,"end":13011.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13011.989093750002,"end":13014.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13016.140343750001,"end":13019.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13019.59971875,"end":13024.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13024.98284375,"end":13029.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13030.652843750002,"end":13032.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13032.829718750003,"end":13033.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13034.63534375,"end":13036.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13037.301593750002,"end":13038.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13038.53346875,"end":13040.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13040.895968750003,"end":13044.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13043.59596875,"end":13053.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13050.649718750003,"end":13051.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13053.41721875,"end":13053.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13054.56471875,"end":13055.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13055.88096875,"end":13058.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13059.239093750002,"end":13061.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13062.090968750003,"end":13064.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13065.06096875,"end":13066.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13066.562843750002,"end":13068.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13068.85784375,"end":13071.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13071.625343750002,"end":13073.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13073.97096875,"end":13078.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13078.493468750003,"end":13081.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13081.750343750002,"end":13085.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13085.817218750002,"end":13105.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13105.476593750001,"end":13150.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13150.735343750002,"end":13155.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13155.66284375,"end":13155.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13156.523468750001,"end":13157.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13158.66659375,"end":13160.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13161.130343750003,"end":13163.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13163.745968750001,"end":13164.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13166.395343750002,"end":13172.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13173.01034375,"end":13176.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13177.262843750003,"end":13183.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13184.35034375,"end":13185.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13185.970343750003,"end":13187.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13188.24846875,"end":13192.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13193.10846875,"end":13196.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13196.90534375,"end":13205.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13206.23721875,"end":13210.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13211.29971875,"end":13214.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13214.99534375,"end":13216.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13217.695343750001,"end":13219.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13219.68659375,"end":13221.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13221.914093750001,"end":13222.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13223.53409375,"end":13224.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13225.440968750001,"end":13232.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13233.220343750003,"end":13234.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13234.941593750002,"end":13242.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13243.36221875,"end":13250.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13251.10784375,"end":13253.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13254.398468750001,"end":13257.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13255.17471875,"end":13257.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13258.17846875,"end":13260.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13262.009093750003,"end":13263.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13264.050968750002,"end":13266.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13268.72534375,"end":13272.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13272.77534375,"end":13274.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13275.52596875,"end":13276.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13277.078468750002,"end":13280.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13281.16221875,"end":13286.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13286.96721875,"end":13288.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13287.11909375,"end":13289.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13290.375968750002,"end":13301.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13302.070343750001,"end":13304.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13304.78721875,"end":13306.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13306.79534375,"end":13309.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13309.42784375,"end":13310.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13310.052218750003,"end":13310.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13310.777843750002,"end":13310.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13310.828468750002,"end":13311.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13312.262843750003,"end":13314.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13315.23284375,"end":13315.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13315.97534375,"end":13321.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13327.500968750002,"end":13329.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13329.72846875,"end":13331.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13331.331593750001,"end":13332.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13332.68159375,"end":13333.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13338.21659375,"end":13339.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13338.402218750001,"end":13338.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13339.44846875,"end":13397.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13397.734718750002,"end":13426.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13401.599093750003,"end":13402.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13406.273468750001,"end":13406.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13406.35784375,"end":13406.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13407.859718750002,"end":13407.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13407.927218750003,"end":13408.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13426.962218750003,"end":13462.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13462.88909375,"end":13466.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13464.660968750002,"end":13465.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13467.79971875,"end":13497.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13497.38159375,"end":13500.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13500.030968750001,"end":13528.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13503.97971875,"end":13504.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13504.08096875,"end":13504.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13528.364093750002,"end":13599.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13599.407843750003,"end":13615.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13616.23221875,"end":13648.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13624.14659375,"end":13624.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13624.31534375,"end":13627.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13627.977218750002,"end":13628.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13628.04471875,"end":13628.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13648.395968750003,"end":13648.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13648.952843750001,"end":13649.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13654.36971875,"end":13656.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13658.11596875,"end":13660.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13666.519718750002,"end":13668.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13669.18596875,"end":13670.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13674.67034375,"end":13674.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13674.906593750002,"end":13690.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13676.121593750002,"end":13676.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13676.20596875,"end":13676.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13676.340968750003,"end":13676.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13676.391593750002,"end":13676.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13684.390343750001,"end":13684.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13691.089718750001,"end":13694.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13694.70096875,"end":13698.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13698.312218750001,"end":13711.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13712.082218750002,"end":13727.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13727.489093750002,"end":13773.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13759.24784375,"end":13759.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13773.16971875,"end":13784.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13784.813468750002,"end":13788.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13788.812843750002,"end":13801.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13801.064093750003,"end":13830.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13806.91971875,"end":13807.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13816.454093750002,"end":13816.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13831.33784375,"end":13833.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13833.632843750001,"end":13843.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13843.285343750002,"end":13843.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13843.74096875,"end":13845.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13845.37784375,"end":13851.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13852.00971875,"end":13855.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13855.941593750002,"end":13857.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13857.56159375,"end":13860.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13860.970343750003,"end":13861.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13861.08846875,"end":13861.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13861.122218750003,"end":13861.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13861.746593750002,"end":13861.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13861.83096875,"end":13861.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13861.915343750003,"end":13868.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13869.25596875,"end":13871.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13871.95596875,"end":13910.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13910.17784375,"end":13932.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13931.187218750001,"end":13941.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13941.83534375,"end":13983.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13983.60096875,"end":14001.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14001.94409375,"end":14020.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14017.92471875,"end":14018.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14020.08471875,"end":14022.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14022.24471875,"end":14025.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14025.83909375,"end":14029.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14026.24409375,"end":14027.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14030.344718750002,"end":14031.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14092.96784375,"end":14093.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14108.712218750003,"end":14110.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14110.602218750002,"end":14110.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14110.83846875,"end":14111.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14114.68596875,"end":14114.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14114.972843750002,"end":14115.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14115.293468750002,"end":14116.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14118.617843750002,"end":14118.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14173.394093750001,"end":14176.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14176.92096875,"end":14177.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14177.157218750002,"end":14177.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14405.965343750002,"end":14408.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14436.239093750002,"end":14438.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14437.403468750003,"end":14437.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14491.99409375,"end":14492.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14502.675968750002,"end":14506.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14693.12721875,"end":14694.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14695.422218750002,"end":14695.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14696.114093750002,"end":14698.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14698.797218750002,"end":14701.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14701.71659375,"end":14703.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14704.04534375,"end":14705.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14706.171593750001,"end":14708.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14708.399093750002,"end":14710.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14710.440968750001,"end":14713.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14720.937218750001,"end":14722.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14722.641593750002,"end":14723.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14724.19409375,"end":14725.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14730.47159375,"end":14743.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14744.258468750002,"end":14756.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14757.066593750002,"end":14767.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14768.17034375,"end":14794.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14794.96784375,"end":14809.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14809.024718750003,"end":14816.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14816.145968750003,"end":14817.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14817.023468750001,"end":14826.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14817.141593750002,"end":14817.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14822.845343750003,"end":14822.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14822.91284375,"end":14822.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14826.321593750003,"end":14828.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14828.852843750003,"end":14830.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14831.046593750001,"end":14836.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14834.235968750003,"end":14834.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14834.337218750003,"end":14834.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14836.109093750001,"end":14836.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14836.345343750003,"end":14838.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14838.387218750002,"end":14849.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14850.149093750002,"end":14855.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14855.49846875,"end":14858.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14858.907218750002,"end":14864.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14864.324093750001,"end":14868.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14868.340343750002,"end":14869.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14869.251593750003,"end":14877.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14877.28409375,"end":14878.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14879.190968750001,"end":14879.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14879.359718750002,"end":14883.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14879.410343750002,"end":14879.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14884.13534375,"end":14890.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14891.172218750002,"end":14893.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14893.652843750002,"end":14895.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14894.614718750003,"end":14898.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14898.765968750002,"end":14900.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14900.43659375,"end":14906.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14906.984093750001,"end":14912.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14913.177218750003,"end":14918.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14918.391593750002,"end":14923.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14923.437218750001,"end":14940.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14939.97471875,"end":14964.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14949.542843750001,"end":14949.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14962.671593750001,"end":14964.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14964.949718750002,"end":14969.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14969.809718750003,"end":14970.923468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14969.961593750002,"end":14970.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14970.83909375,"end":14982.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14970.923468750003,"end":14971.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14972.762843750003,"end":14973.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14982.921593750001,"end":15004.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14993.72159375,"end":14993.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15004.909718750001,"end":15015.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15016.367843750002,"end":15021.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15021.66659375,"end":15048.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15027.47159375,"end":15027.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15028.855343750001,"end":15030.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15033.95159375,"end":15035.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15035.95971875,"end":15036.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15048.76784375,"end":15052.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15052.98659375,"end":15054.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15054.52221875,"end":15069.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15058.386593750001,"end":15059.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15069.625343750002,"end":15075.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15072.56159375,"end":15073.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15074.40096875,"end":15081.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15079.78409375,"end":15079.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15081.79221875,"end":15094.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15094.65096875,"end":15108.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15108.74159375,"end":15118.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15112.032218750002,"end":15114.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15114.765968750002,"end":15115.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15116.284718750001,"end":15121.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15121.85346875,"end":15125.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15135.20159375,"end":15137.564093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15137.73284375,"end":15138.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15144.28034375,"end":15144.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15144.735968750003,"end":15207.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15206.481593750003,"end":15212.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15212.910968750002,"end":15213.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15213.29909375,"end":15215.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15216.015968750002,"end":15221.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15216.218468750001,"end":15217.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15220.977218750002,"end":15224.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15226.12409375,"end":15226.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15226.22534375,"end":15233.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15234.325343750003,"end":15258.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15250.508468750002,"end":15251.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15252.16221875,"end":15253.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15258.034718750001,"end":15261.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15259.688468750002,"end":15259.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15260.262218750002,"end":15260.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15260.97096875,"end":15266.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15266.708468750003,"end":15272.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15269.290343750003,"end":15271.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15275.669093750003,"end":15280.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15276.884093750003,"end":15278.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15280.96784375,"end":15289.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15283.65096875,"end":15285.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15289.742843750002,"end":15298.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15295.61534375,"end":15296.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15299.125343750002,"end":15301.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15302.719718750002,"end":15325.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15326.024093750002,"end":15338.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15337.414718750002,"end":15342.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15343.118468750003,"end":15396.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15397.422218750002,"end":15398.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15399.02534375,"end":15415.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15415.562843750002,"end":15431.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15416.423468750003,"end":15418.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15429.67034375,"end":15437.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15436.94346875,"end":15479.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15479.535968750002,"end":15493.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15491.669093750003,"end":15526.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15525.06471875,"end":15533.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15527.882843750001,"end":15528.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15530.414093750001,"end":15530.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15530.532218750002,"end":15531.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15531.03846875,"end":15531.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15531.055343750002,"end":15531.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15531.122843750003,"end":15531.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15531.13971875,"end":15531.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15531.29159375,"end":15531.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15531.696593750003,"end":15531.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15531.76409375,"end":15531.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15531.81471875,"end":15531.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15531.966593750003,"end":15532.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15533.687843750002,"end":15533.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15534.177218750003,"end":15535.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15536.067218750002,"end":15567.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15538.56471875,"end":15538.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15566.57721875,"end":15582.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15576.21284375,"end":15576.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15576.246593750002,"end":15576.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15576.263468750003,"end":15576.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15582.844718750002,"end":15584.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15584.903468750003,"end":15593.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15585.780968750001,"end":15587.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15590.82659375,"end":15590.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15592.919093750003,"end":15594.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15594.117218750001,"end":15594.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15594.707843750002,"end":15597.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15597.880343750003,"end":15599.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15599.83784375,"end":15601.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15602.36909375,"end":15604.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15614.232218750003,"end":15618.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15620.762843750003,"end":15621.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15622.16346875,"end":15623.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15623.46284375,"end":15624.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15624.441593750002,"end":15624.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15624.89721875,"end":15627.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15627.884093750003,"end":15629.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15629.925968750002,"end":15658.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15630.870968750001,"end":15632.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15632.609093750001,"end":15634.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15658.360343750002,"end":15667.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15667.050968750002,"end":15667.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15667.18596875,"end":15675.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15675.539093750001,"end":15679.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15679.89284375,"end":15685.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15686.305343750002,"end":15691.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15692.19471875,"end":15702.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15702.42096875,"end":15707.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15705.94784375,"end":15706.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15708.360968750003,"end":15715.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15715.110968750003,"end":15716.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15716.39346875,"end":15717.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15718.114718750003,"end":15721.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15721.860968750003,"end":15726.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15726.957218750002,"end":15731.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15731.294093750003,"end":15732.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15732.89721875,"end":15736.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15736.660343750002,"end":15738.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15738.870968750001,"end":15744.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15744.70971875,"end":15746.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15746.86971875,"end":15747.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15747.88221875,"end":15762.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15749.434718750003,"end":15750.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15750.075968750003,"end":15750.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15751.999718750001,"end":15752.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15752.691593750002,"end":15753.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15755.93159375,"end":15755.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15755.94846875,"end":15756.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15762.00659375,"end":15763.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15763.035968750002,"end":15763.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15763.06971875,"end":15763.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15763.440968750001,"end":15772.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15764.26784375,"end":15764.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15772.536593750003,"end":15775.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15775.60784375,"end":15779.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15779.20221875,"end":15779.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15779.55659375,"end":15794.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15794.575343750003,"end":15801.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15802.152218750001,"end":15803.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15803.14784375,"end":15808.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15808.277843750002,"end":15813.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15814.47096875,"end":15820.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15821.001593750003,"end":15825.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15825.844718750002,"end":15830.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15830.97471875,"end":15831.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15832.054718750001,"end":15846.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15844.559093750002,"end":15854.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15848.136593750001,"end":15849.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15853.148468750001,"end":15854.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15854.22846875,"end":15854.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15854.34659375,"end":15854.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15854.565968750001,"end":15864.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15865.079093750002,"end":15887.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15887.168468750002,"end":15915.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15896.78721875,"end":15898.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15914.539718750002,"end":15920.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15920.496593750002,"end":15922.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15922.707218750002,"end":15923.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15923.95596875,"end":15927.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15927.01034375,"end":15929.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15929.96346875,"end":15953.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15953.925968750002,"end":15984.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15983.28846875,"end":15992.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15990.173468750003,"end":15990.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15991.523468750001,"end":15991.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15991.574093750001,"end":15992.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15992.02971875,"end":15993.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15992.232218750003,"end":15994.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15993.548468750003,"end":15993.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15994.45971875,"end":15997.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15998.442218750002,"end":16001.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16012.87034375,"end":16017.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16016.684093750002,"end":16017.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16018.523468750001,"end":16019.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16022.961593750002,"end":16023.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16024.26096875,"end":16029.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16029.32346875,"end":16030.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16030.69034375,"end":16046.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16046.56971875,"end":16047.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16048.13909375,"end":16051.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16051.969718750002,"end":16075.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16076.30346875,"end":16125.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16126.219718750002,"end":16164.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16129.61159375,"end":16129.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16141.879718750002,"end":16142.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16165.555343750002,"end":16186.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16187.003468750001,"end":16196.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16197.195968750002,"end":16198.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16199.052218750003,"end":16226.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16227.267218750003,"end":16240.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16241.03721875,"end":16241.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16242.47159375,"end":16246.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16246.825343750003,"end":16250.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16250.33534375,"end":16253.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16253.49096875,"end":16256.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16255.54971875,"end":16255.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16256.410343750002,"end":16258.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16259.07659375,"end":16263.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16263.582218750002,"end":16265.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16265.97846875,"end":16268.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16268.594093750002,"end":16271.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16272.019718750002,"end":16275.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16275.394718750002,"end":16277.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16278.22971875,"end":16281.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16282.262843750003,"end":16305.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16306.039718750002,"end":16331.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16331.470343750003,"end":16337.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16338.01784375,"end":16338.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16338.034718750001,"end":16338.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16338.33846875,"end":16338.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16338.91221875,"end":16338.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16338.92909375,"end":16338.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16338.96284375,"end":16339.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16339.70534375,"end":16339.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16339.722218750001,"end":16339.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16340.22846875,"end":16340.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16340.97096875,"end":16341.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16341.055343750002,"end":16341.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16341.13971875,"end":16343.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16341.76409375,"end":16341.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16341.780968750001,"end":16341.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16345.544093750003,"end":16346.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16347.214718750001,"end":16348.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16360.27596875,"end":16363.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16363.39784375,"end":16367.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16367.987843750001,"end":16368.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16374.99096875,"end":16387.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16387.107218750003,"end":16387.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16387.37721875,"end":16387.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16387.57971875,"end":16409.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16409.500343749998,"end":16409.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16410.310343750003,"end":16484.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16484.256593750004,"end":16526.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16526.764718749997,"end":16558.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16560.075968750003,"end":16560.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16560.54846875,"end":16584.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16582.40159375,"end":16691.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16585.47284375,"end":16585.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16692.08909375,"end":16700.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16694.012843750003,"end":16694.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16696.645343750002,"end":16697.202218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16700.020343750002,"end":16702.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16700.594093749998,"end":16701.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16702.247843750003,"end":16702.264718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16702.29846875,"end":16705.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16702.39971875,"end":16702.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16708.272218750004,"end":16709.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16710.364718750003,"end":16713.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16714.043468750002,"end":16716.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16722.092843749997,"end":16723.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16723.59471875,"end":16724.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16724.97846875,"end":16726.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16731.694718749997,"end":16732.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16732.69034375,"end":16744.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16742.005343750003,"end":16742.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16743.87846875,"end":16744.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16744.36784375,"end":16744.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16744.38471875,"end":16783.163468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16744.48596875,"end":16744.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16783.41659375,"end":16810.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16810.973468750002,"end":16811.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16811.80034375,"end":16811.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16811.834093750003,"end":16832.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16833.231593750003,"end":16833.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16833.41721875,"end":16837.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16836.741593749997,"end":16837.281593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16837.43346875,"end":16841.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16841.55096875,"end":16912.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16847.069093750004,"end":16847.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16848.30096875,"end":16848.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16857.34596875,"end":16858.476593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16872.077843749998,"end":16872.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16872.41534375,"end":16872.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16900.78221875,"end":16900.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16912.763468750003,"end":16914.045968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16914.19784375,"end":16933.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16933.58721875,"end":16938.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16939.00409375,"end":16949.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16949.247218750003,"end":16971.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16971.741593749997,"end":16977.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16977.310343750003,"end":17009.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17009.86221875,"end":17012.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17012.629718750002,"end":17030.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17031.310343750003,"end":17064.014093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17064.30096875,"end":17074.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17069.582843750002,"end":17070.257843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17073.75096875,"end":17075.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17074.59471875,"end":17091.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17083.35284375,"end":17083.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17091.840968750003,"end":17096.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17096.14409375,"end":17105.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17105.340968750003,"end":17153.772218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17153.957843750002,"end":17156.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17156.489093750002,"end":17158.952843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17156.67471875,"end":17156.944718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17160.100343750004,"end":17165.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17166.15846875,"end":17168.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17168.976593749998,"end":17172.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17172.773468749998,"end":17175.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17182.122218750003,"end":17186.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17185.429718749998,"end":17185.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17186.91471875,"end":17188.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17192.787218750003,"end":17193.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17193.24284375,"end":17193.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17193.37784375,"end":17204.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17205.021593750003,"end":17210.320343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17210.742218749998,"end":17217.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":17219.888468750003,"end":17253.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17224.03971875,"end":17224.124093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":17239.429718749998,"end":17239.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17239.44659375,"end":17239.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":17239.86846875,"end":17239.952843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17253.030968749998,"end":17262.835343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":17262.44721875,"end":17272.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":17272.97721875,"end":17278.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17278.29284375,"end":17295.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":17295.37034375,"end":17318.742218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":17318.87721875,"end":17322.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":17322.67409375,"end":17329.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17328.56346875,"end":17350.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17350.51784375,"end":17350.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17350.61909375,"end":17358.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17358.702218749997,"end":17364.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17365.148468749998,"end":17371.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17372.421593749998,"end":17387.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17387.10284375,"end":17390.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17390.629718750002,"end":17394.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17394.47721875,"end":17398.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17398.91534375,"end":17399.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17400.265343749998,"end":17400.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17401.277843750002,"end":17401.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17402.30721875,"end":17402.999093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17403.45471875,"end":17405.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17405.88471875,"end":17408.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17408.85471875,"end":17409.327218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17409.529718750004,"end":17418.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17418.490343750003,"end":17420.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17421.27471875,"end":17437.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17437.812218749998,"end":17457.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":17455.699718750002,"end":17457.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17457.03284375,"end":17457.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17457.437843749998,"end":17457.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17457.505343750003,"end":17470.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17457.522218750004,"end":17458.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17459.27721875,"end":17459.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17470.14471875,"end":17471.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17472.65909375,"end":17473.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17473.857218750003,"end":17488.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17485.41659375,"end":17488.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17489.922218749998,"end":17490.529718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17490.24284375,"end":17492.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17493.584093750003,"end":17493.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17494.427843750003,"end":17494.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17495.23784375,"end":17514.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17514.694718749997,"end":17527.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17528.22846875,"end":17538.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17539.95659375,"end":17550.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17551.397843749997,"end":17552.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17554.18221875,"end":17555.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17555.700968750003,"end":17562.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17562.872843750003,"end":17571.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17572.474718750003,"end":17572.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17573.723468750002,"end":17577.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17578.920968749997,"end":17583.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17584.169093750003,"end":17587.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17587.223468750002,"end":17587.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17587.965968750003,"end":17588.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17588.15159375,"end":17588.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17588.47221875,"end":17590.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17592.825968750003,"end":17595.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17610.30846875,"end":17613.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17618.07096875,"end":17628.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17628.51659375,"end":17628.921593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17628.921593749998,"end":17630.187218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17630.187218749998,"end":17630.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17630.52471875,"end":17632.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17633.444093750004,"end":17640.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17640.26159375,"end":17642.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17642.89409375,"end":17643.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17643.990968750004,"end":17645.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17646.48846875,"end":17659.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17659.54971875,"end":17692.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17692.709093750003,"end":17695.257218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17695.780343749997,"end":17698.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17698.817843750003,"end":17710.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17710.545968749997,"end":17715.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17715.74346875,"end":17717.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17717.97096875,"end":17728.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17729.125343749998,"end":17736.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17738.355968750002,"end":17739.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17739.92534375,"end":17740.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17741.41034375,"end":17749.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17750.01659375,"end":17751.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17752.14284375,"end":17755.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17756.88471875,"end":17759.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17760.124718749998,"end":17761.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17760.17534375,"end":17762.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17761.795343750004,"end":17771.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17764.71471875,"end":17765.609093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17769.42284375,"end":17774.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17772.105968750002,"end":17776.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17774.552843750003,"end":17774.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17776.965968750003,"end":17781.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17777.168468750002,"end":17778.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17778.11346875,"end":17778.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17778.38346875,"end":17778.467843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17778.467843749997,"end":17779.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17779.22721875,"end":17779.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17782.872218750003,"end":17789.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17783.02409375,"end":17784.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17786.71971875,"end":17787.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17790.61784375,"end":17793.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17794.094093749998,"end":17812.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17812.55534375,"end":17814.647843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17814.968468749998,"end":17817.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17817.95534375,"end":17827.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17827.810343750003,"end":17832.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17833.34534375,"end":17836.163468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17836.61909375,"end":17837.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17840.93909375,"end":17842.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17842.997843750003,"end":17844.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17844.97221875,"end":17846.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17847.04784375,"end":17850.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17850.13596875,"end":17850.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17850.490343750003,"end":17850.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17850.574718750002,"end":17850.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17850.591593750003,"end":17853.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17851.030343749997,"end":17851.334093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17852.02596875,"end":17861.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17860.716593750003,"end":17860.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17861.121593750002,"end":17878.350968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17864.46284375,"end":17864.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17864.817218750002,"end":17865.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17877.827843749998,"end":17882.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17879.85284375,"end":17891.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17891.395343750002,"end":17892.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17892.390968749998,"end":17906.093468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17905.62096875,"end":17912.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17912.05034375,"end":17919.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17919.255968750003,"end":17921.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17921.31471875,"end":17930.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17921.51721875,"end":17921.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17928.942218750002,"end":17935.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17931.912218750003,"end":17934.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17935.000343749998,"end":17940.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17935.25346875,"end":17935.607843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17940.83909375,"end":17948.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17949.411593750003,"end":17964.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17961.848468750002,"end":17963.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17965.52721875,"end":17966.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17966.067218750002,"end":17972.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17971.045343750004,"end":17971.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17972.34471875,"end":17974.639718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17973.82971875,"end":17983.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17977.74471875,"end":17977.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17979.93846875,"end":17979.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17979.97221875,"end":17980.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17980.242218749998,"end":17980.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17980.61346875,"end":17981.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17981.03534375,"end":17981.710343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17981.710343749997,"end":17984.781593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17983.785968750002,"end":17983.937843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17984.05596875,"end":17984.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17984.427218750003,"end":17984.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17984.59596875,"end":17984.764718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17984.781593749998,"end":17984.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17985.45659375,"end":17985.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17985.490343750003,"end":17985.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17985.52409375,"end":17985.608468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17985.608468749997,"end":17985.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17985.709718750004,"end":17985.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17985.726593749998,"end":17986.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17986.637843750003,"end":17989.405343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17986.975343750004,"end":17989.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17990.16471875,"end":17991.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17991.953468749998,"end":17994.889718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17997.75846875,"end":17998.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17999.36159375,"end":18002.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18003.529718750004,"end":18006.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18006.41534375,"end":18008.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18008.86221875,"end":18009.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18009.874718749998,"end":18011.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18012.270968750003,"end":18022.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18023.340968750003,"end":18028.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18028.97721875,"end":18029.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18029.989718750003,"end":18030.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18031.289093749998,"end":18034.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18034.832843750002,"end":18038.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18040.19909375,"end":18040.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18043.11846875,"end":18046.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18046.881593750004,"end":18047.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18047.69159375,"end":18051.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18052.11284375,"end":18053.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18053.547218749998,"end":18054.171593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":18056.382218749997,"end":18056.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":18056.466593750003,"end":18056.584718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18056.584718750004,"end":18058.474718750003}],"whisperx":[{"start":1443.462,"end":1453.014,"text":"好 我們現在開始開會我們初期的委員已經到達法定人數現在開會我們請議事人員宣讀上次的議事錄"},{"start":1455.27,"end":1478.451,"text":"立法院第十一屆第五會期交通委員會第三次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年三月二十五日星期三上午九時至十二時十六分地點本院紅樓二零一會議室出席委員萬美玲等十四人列席委員鐘家斌等八人列席官員國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員陳崇樹等"},{"start":1480.112,"end":1504.24,"text":"主席黃州級委員建豪報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定邀請國家通訊傳播委員會列席報告業務概況並備質詢本日會議由國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員陳崇樹報告後既有委員外美林等16人提出質詢均經代理主任委員陳崇樹及相關人員分別予以答覆"},{"start":1505.18,"end":1534.077,"text":"決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請國家通訊傳播委員會盡速以書面答覆散會宣讀完畢好由於我們在場的委員我們還有其他委員還沒有到所以我們的議事錄就暫不處理現在我們介紹列席的"},{"start":1535.714,"end":1560.707,"text":"我們交通部的各位同仁我們首先介紹交通部陳世凱部長運燕所黃世勳所長我們鐵道局楊正軍局長我們公路局的林福山局長我們高速公路局的陳文瑞局長我們觀光署的陳玉秀署長"},{"start":1562.608,"end":1587.423,"text":"我們港港局的葉協榮局長我們民航局的何淑萍局長我們中央氣象署的呂國成署長我們台鐵的鄭光源董事長我們港務公司的周永輝董事長中華郵政王國才董事長"},{"start":1589.466,"end":1612.695,"text":"我們桃園機場的楊維福董事長我們臺灣高鐵的史喆董事長我們中華航空的高興煌董事長我們中華電信的簡志成董事長還有林榮氏總經理我們陽明海運的林明輝總經理"},{"start":1615.233,"end":1641.163,"text":"我們內政部警政署航空警察局的林建宏局長另外我們這裡還有國安部作戰及計劃參謀次長室的作戰準備處的吳東達處長好台北市政府捷運工程局的主秘王君慧王主秘謝謝新北市政府捷運工程局的王義祥副局長"},{"start":1642.981,"end":1668.196,"text":"我們桃園市捷運工程局的曾榮英副局長台中市捷運工程局的黃順秋副局長我們台南市捷運工程處的莊惠中處長我們高雄市政府捷運工程局的王正一副局長我們今天的會議是進行交通部的"},{"start":1669.332,"end":1692.944,"text":"列席報告業務概況以及就我們親民連續假期的輸運方案規劃的專題報告以及飲水法的修正草案的審查好那我們現在就請提案委員來說明提案要旨不在好那我們現在就請列行機關報告首先我們邀請交通部程式改部長報告"},{"start":1701.104,"end":1713.239,"text":"主席各位委員大家好今天受邀來交通委員會報告交通部過去一年的成果以及未來施政的重點深感榮幸我要先感謝各位委員長期以來的支持與指導"},{"start":1715.011,"end":1740.781,"text":"交通的工作看似繁瑣涵蓋了陸海空觀光郵政以及氣象對人民來說最在意的就是每天出門能不能夠安全能不能夠更便利能不能夠在遇到風災跟地震的時候交通體系能夠撐得住國家的運作可不可以不中斷也因此交通不只是基礎建設更是民生產業國家韌性的關鍵系統"},{"start":1744.605,"end":1757.821,"text":"面對數位轉型極端氣候高齡化等等的挑戰交通部秉持人本交通智慧安全的核心價值推動六大施政主軸以下我就重點向各位委員報告"},{"start":1759.235,"end":1784.286,"text":"首先我們的優先任務是要讓道路更安全114年的交通事故死亡人數比起112年我們的道安基準年同期來相比減少了165人而且呈現逐年趨勢的下滑跟下降這顯示了我們正在逐漸地顯現我們交通改革的成效"},{"start":1785.458,"end":1798.863,"text":"到去年底我們不止完成了停止線後退的這個修法並且完成了2682處入口行人安全設施的改善309處校園周邊道路的改善"},{"start":1800.219,"end":1825.816,"text":"在420處的省道路口的照明我們也做了改善以及2438處路口的行人早開以及專用實相的設置115年我們會持續推動道路交通安全計畫深化科技道安的應用並且從考照的調整回訊的強化以及換照的管理三個面向來推動駕照管理的改革"},{"start":1826.776,"end":1844.419,"text":"讓道路更安全不只是靠宣導而是要逐步落實為制度以及工程還有文化的整體改變在鐵道安全方面今年我們已經發布了第三版國家鐵路安全計畫以車載人員臨死亡作為首要目標與願景"},{"start":1846.218,"end":1865.127,"text":"持續監控高風險的安全指標並且推動法規的修正事故調查以及監理制度的精進讓鐵路安全管理更加的系統化更加的科學化114年我們也已經完成了台鐵跟高鐵的定期檢查與特別檢查未來我們將持續針對"},{"start":1867.574,"end":1895.58,"text":"特定高風險的議題強化安全的機制在海空運輸安全的方面我們同步強化了航安、飛安以及無人機的管理115年的1月我們正式啟用了VTS中心監控的範圍擴大了將近6倍在飛安的監理上面我們持續來依循ICAL的國際規範導入風險管理導向的制度讓我國持續與國際接軌"},{"start":1897.6,"end":1914.615,"text":"截至目前為止我們在全國的139個鄉鎮提供了507條的幸福巴士服務涵蓋率已經超過了95%而這一項我們的目標非常的明確我們希望能夠達到鄉鄉有公車家家有幸福的目標"},{"start":1915.436,"end":1930.457,"text":"我們輔導70處的偏鄉地區推動幸福巴士以及幸福小黃讓阿公阿嬤出門買菜有車搭讓小孩子上學或者是就醫出遊都更加的方便把服務送到每一個需要的角落"},{"start":1931.218,"end":1948.492,"text":"在離島的方面我們除了持續辦理機場跟港口的改善之外我們的金門港旅運中心在今年的2月已經開始試營運澎湖馬宮的郵輪旅運中心預計在12月能夠完成我們要縮短城鄉差距讓移動不再是負擔"},{"start":1950.834,"end":1974.951,"text":"接下來我們要讓台灣持續動起來任性就是一個關鍵交通部持續推進公路、鐵路、機場、港部等重大建設目標很清楚我們要讓交通更順、更穩也更能支撐國家的整體發展在公路建設方面114年已經完成多項生活圈與瓶頸路口的改善今年1月我們完成了"},{"start":1977.372,"end":1993.663,"text":"74線十九甲閘道的通車後續我們並將完成的是淡江大橋以及台九線花東縱谷安全景觀大道的台東段檳榔外環道等等的重大工程同時我們在國道方面持續推進"},{"start":1995.163,"end":2015.395,"text":"國一的林口、五谷、園山交流道的改善以及國道7號台61線中山大橋改善等等相關的工程還有高屏二塊、屏南塊等等重要計畫的往前推進讓區域路網更加完整也提升地方發展的動能在鐵道路網方面"},{"start":2016.115,"end":2045.23,"text":"今年桃園平鎮臨時站以及台南鐵路地下化的第一階段通車將陸續完成集集支線也將恢復全線的通車持續推動花東鐵路的雙軌化以及桃園鐵路地下化嘉義與彰化的高架化以及高鐵的延伸屏東延伸宜蘭等等的重大計畫我們逐步在健全城際之間以及區域之間的軌道路網"},{"start":2046.482,"end":2070.239,"text":"在海空門戶建設方面台灣必須持續強化與世界的連結我們持續推動第三跑道相關的設施第三航廈的工程高雄機場的新航廈以及其他機場的整體規劃持續提升機場容量與服務品質在港戶方面我們持續推動高雄港碼頭的改建台北港的智慧車輛產業園區"},{"start":2073.28,"end":2102.088,"text":"新車整備中心等等的啟用以及國際商港未來五年的整體規劃我們希望能夠提升我國所有的港群的營運韌性與產業的支撐力面對極端氣候交通的韌性不能只停留在災後的搶修平時就要做好後援的準備以及整合以馬太安溪橋災後復建為例交通部已經啟動三階段的搶修"},{"start":2103.96,"end":2123.471,"text":"岡便橋已經在今年的元旦搶通永久橋也持續的推進當中同時我們建立了陸海空一體的備援輸運機制針對蘇花中段高鐵旅客外溢等等的情境來做運去聯防的動作未來也將持續優化SOP提升整體災害應變的能力"},{"start":2126.704,"end":2143.019,"text":"接下來數位轉型的核心是要讓AI以及數據能夠真正解決我們交通所面臨到的痛點改善使用者的體驗我們追求的不單只是科技的展示我們致力於可以複製可以落地的系統"},{"start":2144.298,"end":2170.507,"text":"透過推動TDX智慧運輸平台的升級我們目前已經收納超過4800項的交通資料集未來透過這些大數據我們要逐步的建構一個更安全智慧而且平權的交通環境面對全球自駕車的發展浪潮我們採取了與市場共同推進的策略積極參考各國的先進做法"},{"start":2171.147,"end":2195.126,"text":"目標是建立一個可以讓自駕技術能夠無縫接軌的友善環境我們參考國際標準制定了台灣專屬的台灣車聯網路設施資通訊開放標準這是我國自駕車應用的共同語言目前在淡海實驗場域已經累積完成37處的設施部件"},{"start":2196.735,"end":2220.671,"text":"透過標準化的訂定我們確保了未來不論是在技術的更迭我們的我國的系統都能夠具備高度的一致性以及穩定性能夠適應國際的改變為了輔導產業有序發展我們公告了自駕公車實驗運行安全指引目標是引導業者在安全管控的前提之下逐步展開實測雖然自駕實驗仍處於精進的階段"},{"start":2224.714,"end":2244.134,"text":"我們已經主動在制度面以及環境面做好萬全的準備我們的目標是當自駕車的發展成熟產業準備好的時候台灣的基礎環境以及我們的法規標準都已經要就緒我們不只是法規的守門員更是自駕車生態系統的推手"},{"start":2245.404,"end":2271.997,"text":"在海空智慧化方面我們持續推動技術與實務的高度結合桃園機場已經運用AI進行跑道鋪面預防性的維護預測以及航班資訊的服務高雄港也已經導入影像監控以及橋樑監測等等的AI系統今年智慧交通將會有更多的指標性成果松山機場將啟動新一代的共同報道"},{"start":2274.143,"end":2293.076,"text":"國際線共同報導以及整合自助燈管查驗閘門高雄港將導入全自動無人卸櫃車邁向自動化作業的這個新紀元同時我們要推動商港智慧商情平台透過數據的整合提升港區的應變韌性以及國際的競爭力"},{"start":2297.267,"end":2314.456,"text":"接下來觀光是台灣走向世界最重要的一張名片114年來台的旅客突破了857萬人次成長率達到了9.12%這不僅是數字的成長更代表我們成功的推動了"},{"start":2315.461,"end":2332.581,"text":"客源多元化過去的單一市場的依賴現在已經不再是這樣的情形目前我們的客源結構趨向健康日本韓國以及港澳是我們前三大的市場都已經突破百萬人次來台"},{"start":2333.422,"end":2350.675,"text":"特別值得振奮的是菲律賓來台的旅客創下歷史新高有62.7萬人另外在歐美跟澳洲的市場復甦也全數超越了疫情之前的水準其中美國成為來台第四大的客源"},{"start":2351.596,"end":2378.993,"text":"有71.5萬人數據證明台灣的觀光正穩健的回升朝向多元國際的佈局大步來邁進在國際市場復出的同時國內的旅遊市場也呈現了強勁的動能國旅型態正轉向生活化114年初估我們的國旅的旅次總數以及消費的規模都會創下歷史上面的新高"},{"start":2379.833,"end":2399.828,"text":"根據統計114年我們的總體的住客旅宿的住客的人次達到了8209萬人正是超越了疫情之前的水準以今年的春節為例初一到初三全台灣的住房率平均為64%有超過6成的縣市也就是10個縣市有10個縣市超過了6成"},{"start":2407.654,"end":2434.899,"text":"那顯示了我們的旅宿市場已經由復甦邁入了穩定發展的階段現在短時多次輕旅行已經成為國人旅遊的主流以及主力每人平均的旅次已經提升到了10.46次透過結合台灣好行等等的公共運輸系統我們帶動人次的大幅提升有達到了19.79%讓旅遊更加的便利以及低碳"},{"start":2436.448,"end":2453.883,"text":"今年我們預計要推出觀光雙輪驅動方案強化國際客源的拓展以及平日國旅的促進並且規劃台灣觀光演訓院在今年要掛牌營運籌設雅加達辦事處等等的計畫我們也要推動北回之巔台灣觀光雙年曆與"},{"start":2456.385,"end":2474.872,"text":"台灣觀光100亮點等等的計畫我們要積極邀請國際的媒體以及KOL來台採線並且優化各地的觀光基礎建設目標是要讓台灣成為亞洲旅遊首選的目的地在多元旅遊方面我們也會持續推動藍色公路"},{"start":2477.053,"end":2499.368,"text":"國際郵輪、鐵道觀光以及自行車旅遊114年國際郵輪的旅客創下了歷史上面的新高而且其中國際的旅客比例也相當的高115年我們將持續深化海洋觀光以及鐵道旅遊並且擴增遊艇的博點完善郵輪的停靠服務"},{"start":2500.949,"end":2529.371,"text":"帶動地方觀光以及區域經濟在郵政方面我們持續推動智慧物流以及數位轉型北台灣郵件作業中心預計在今年的5月底之前要完成搬遷進駐未來我們將集中處理全國70%以上的郵件分檢封運在這個地方進一步要來提升郵務的效率以及服務在氣象的方面我們持續了進化"},{"start":2531.176,"end":2537.463,"text":"預警的在地應用導入了AI的技術提升颱風路徑的預報的精準度地震的預報時間從10秒縮短到7秒今年3月我們推出了"},{"start":2547.338,"end":2560.856,"text":"鄉鎮沿海大來雨及時訊息並且逐步完成二十二縣市未來一到三個月的氣候展望我們要讓氣象的服務從看得到進一步走向用得上"},{"start":2562.95,"end":2587.662,"text":"交通部還有一個重要的任務是持續穩健的推動運具的淨零轉型在運具電動化方面114年度電動大顆車的普及率已經達到了年度的目標電動油物機車也已經達到了50%也提前的達成了我們的設定目標今年我們將持續的推動公共運輸以及政府車輛的電動化並且擴充國道的路網"},{"start":2591.184,"end":2602.318,"text":"的這個充電服務讓轉型更有條件也更能夠落地在低碳的通勤方面TPAS的推出公共運輸的成長量已經到達32.8%全國有20個縣市實施"},{"start":2606.923,"end":2630.939,"text":"超過16.78億人次使用並且在114年推出了TPAS 2.0以及TPAS 2.0 Plus方案這個已經成為國人生活的標配更是最有感的幸福政策讓海空運輸淨零的部分我們也在努力我們將持續推動商港的T代燃油供應並且在離岸"},{"start":2632.148,"end":2641.361,"text":"的這個岸電建設以及內水傳播的電動化以及國際航空擴大使用SAF讓台灣在海空運輸面對國際減碳的趨勢能夠穩健接軌及早佈局"},{"start":2647.441,"end":2666.636,"text":"最後我要再一次說明交通部的工作就是讓人民能夠出門更安全返家更安心讓地方發展有路可走讓國家面對風險的時候能夠撐得住轉得動也讓台灣在智慧轉型以及淨零轉型的路上走得更穩走得更遠"},{"start":2667.597,"end":2678.384,"text":"未來交通部會持續努力下一個更安全更便捷智慧而且永續可以真正讓人民有感的交通環境謝謝大家"},{"start":2692.185,"end":2698.796,"text":"好 那接下來我們請葉局長來報告飲水法的修正草案 謝謝"},{"start":2708.271,"end":2728.47,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士先生今天應邀列席貴委員會就許委員字節等22人擬據飲水法第6條條文修正草案提出本部處理意見建議請報告說明如下 敬請各位委員指教首先報告委員提案修正重點"},{"start":2729.531,"end":2758.161,"text":"許智傑等委員介於臺灣水路交通日益發展政府推動水路的油氣政策用我國為海島國家船舶運輸甚為重要未符合現代飲水實際現況原理據《飲水法》第六條條文修正查案列以總共為未滿一千隻非中華民國遊艇準用第一項規定一級免除該等船舶強制飲水規定之適用"},{"start":2759.481,"end":2772.067,"text":"二本部建議處理意見為強化飲水業務的監督與管理以及確保飲水服務品質本部航港局課程推動飲水法修正作業該局以通盤檢討"},{"start":2774.301,"end":2803.761,"text":"飲水食物作為需求另配合遊艇觀光政策與確保港區航行安全前提下經徵詢飲水人及港股管理機關構或有共識規劃比照我國籍總動位未達1000船舶不適用強制飲水規定之做法放寬總動位未達1000隻非我國籍船舶不適用強制飲水規定因此許委員等提案"},{"start":2805.603,"end":2825.923,"text":"內容與本部航港局檢討修正方向一致全案本部尊重貴委員會綜合審查結果最後簡要報告結語感謝徐委員等22位委員為應政府推動水域油氣政策以及符合現代飲水實況需求擬具之提案"},{"start":2826.804,"end":2842.933,"text":"本部後續將於行政院指導下持續推動飲水法修正作業以促進航運程序發展並確保船舶進出港埠安全綜合上說明針對學員等之提案請提供本部處理建議敬請各位委員參採並會議指教謝謝好 我們謝謝葉協榮局長"},{"start":2855.216,"end":2871.371,"text":"好 各位委員我們現在開始進行詢答我們先宣告以下事項我們詢答時間初期委員6加2分鐘列席委員清明報告對"},{"start":2879.045,"end":2883.197,"text":"抱歉抱歉我們那個清明年假的交通疏運的報告我們我們請是"},{"start":2896.004,"end":2913.008,"text":"交集人還有各位委員各位先進 大家好以下由 以下請就清明節連續假期輸運計畫進行報告那今年的清明節連續假期自4月2號 4月3號到4月6號共有4天的假期那交通部輸運工作呢是從4月2號到4月7號共計6天"},{"start":2916.149,"end":2943.75,"text":"那預估在輸運的前段以及輸運的後段大概會是以返鄉以及返工的中長途旅客為主要那中段的部分因為有兒童節有有清明節所以預期是會以短程出遊跟掃墓的旅客為主要那在高速公路的部分會今年會實施高層宅管制閘道封閉調整收費等措施那另外也規劃了四條中長途的"},{"start":2944.39,"end":2967.086,"text":"替代道路7條短途的替代道路用以分散車流那在省道的部分蘇花路廊南回公路以及西濱快速道路那分別實施開放路兼供大客車行駛進行大貨車路段間變路口封閉等措施在高鐵的部分清明節期間預計加開191個列次"},{"start":2970.268,"end":2994.047,"text":"那運能增加了18%也會是實際的需求來加開班次因應那另外因應台中呢可能有人潮外溢的情形也做好了運具聯防高鐵公司會將與那個台鐵公司以及國道客運進行跨運具的一個聯防工作另外高鐵公司今年在春節與Light Day合作推出"},{"start":2995.147,"end":3018.934,"text":"當日自由座等候時間預估燈號的服務也獲得極大的一個好評所以今年的清明節也會跟續辦理在台鐵的部分預計加開185個列次運能會增加7.8%那清明節期間西線的新次強豪會取消自由座發售限量的車票站票"},{"start":3019.654,"end":3043.021,"text":"那在國道客運的部分已經準備了充足的運能那今年因為新明節也是民俗節日所以會比較春節有86條國道客運會提供6折的一個優惠那如果再搭配我們的TPAS 2.0 PLUS的措施最高的優惠可以達42折那在海運的部分本島離島有9條航線小山通有4條航線共13條航線"},{"start":3048.242,"end":3057.984,"text":"總共服務28.3萬人次那在空運的部分國內航線共規劃了1684個架次可以服務12.9萬人次那因應天候可能的影響也被駝了ABC的一個應變計畫那只要有需要就會隨時啟動在桃園機場的部分那預計因為"},{"start":3072.967,"end":3096.093,"text":"後續都有加班所以預計每日的量大概可以到15.1萬到16.2萬人次桃機公司已經依照旅客的需求預做人力以及設備的一個安排並會透過APP提供等候的時間讓旅客能夠充分瞭解在觀光的部分那觀光局觀光署也持續提供訂房率以及"},{"start":3096.573,"end":3116.448,"text":"那個大型遊樂區的一個資訊供大家來做一個輸運規劃的參考後續也會進行相關的宣導鼓勵民眾提早事先規劃相關的旅程那針對親民的連續假期那部裡面已經折成各輸運單位要起積極的做好運能的準備以及聯防的準備"},{"start":3117.128,"end":3135.284,"text":"也要落實相關的安全工作那後續呢 便會透過APP1968等多元管道來進行宣導提醒民眾也要留意清明節期間的用火安全希望大家都能夠平安順利返鄉返工以及旅遊以上好 非常感謝"},{"start":3145.319,"end":3173.791,"text":"好那我們現在就開始進行詢答我們先宣告以下事項我們詢答的時間初期委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止各位委員如有臨時提案請於10點以前提出以便議事人員會診我們暫定10點30分休息10分鐘現在我們邀請登記第一位的委員洪孟海委員發言"},{"start":3181.974,"end":3205.226,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請陳世凱部長好 請陳部長好 部長好委員長好部長 針對中東的局勢現在暫情還沒有降溫的一個狀況那其實我們看到是說藍油的部分大家都關心是那我們先看一下新聞報導藍油荒泉"},{"start":3208.328,"end":3223.078,"text":"全球都受害所以說航運成本已經暴增了50億美金那再來看我們這個跟國人比較直接聯繫是航空相關所以我國籍的航空已經過去這一個月已經有調漲了這個定位服務費"},{"start":3223.999,"end":3240.194,"text":"那現在也有一些航空公司講是說這個燃油附加費也要調漲沒錯那今天4月1號很多業者有講說多希望這是愚人節的笑話但是看起來可能是在必行我們目前為止有沒有針對燃油附加費我們國際航空要調漲的一個規劃向委員報告確實"},{"start":3242.956,"end":3263.601,"text":"我們這個燃油也造成了所有的航空公司的燃油價格的壓力他們成本的壓力那我們在今天民航局應該就會公布針對燃油附加費的增加所以會增加多少增加的幅度我是不是請局長跟委員報告用麥克風好不好"},{"start":3265.267,"end":3278.678,"text":"跟委員報告有關國內線的部分因為我們已經過去就有一個建立機制就是要連續三個月中油公佈的燃油的價格如果往上調整的話我們就會來調整整個國內線的這個費用會放在全額票價裡面所以票價有可能會漲"},{"start":3286.964,"end":3302.172,"text":"現在是勢在必行對 因應燃油的這個是過往因為燃油因應國際趨勢它常常會漲漲跌跌那所以說這個要適度的去反映那這個部分我們計算出來的話大概就是每條航線會不一樣大概是平均大概是97塊錢"},{"start":3306.254,"end":3322.999,"text":"97塊那可是對於居民的部分因為以往我們也曾經有討論過居民的部分的話我們基本上就是有一部分這個調整我們會由民航作業基金來吸收然後以兼顧這個離島的部分所以目前居民就國內航線還是吸收多因為97塊沒有到那麼多那國際航線咧"},{"start":3324.379,"end":3341.875,"text":"國際航線的部分的話它的調整機制就是我們也是有建立一個機制就是會有一個級距短程線長程線那大概是短程線的話是每調整那個數字局長我們可不可以講大白話因為本期還有很多問題好不好大白話就是會調就是會調但調多少"},{"start":3345.118,"end":3352.309,"text":"調多少就是會占國際線這個是大家最關心的45塊會調漲45啦短程線的話是從17塊5會調整到45塊長程線是45.5那票價咧未來票價有沒有可能調高"},{"start":3362.141,"end":3379.286,"text":"這個剛剛所說的數字是以美金來計算那這個部分其實就是加到票價裡面剛剛所講的這個調漲就加到票價裡面那要看它原本的票價假設3萬塊那它以長城來講的話是調整45.5塊美金大概是這樣所以我們可不可以幣值一次你3萬是台幣吧"},{"start":3380.526,"end":3409.906,"text":"你剛剛原本3萬台幣然後你現在45塊又變美金不要報喜不報憂嘛部長因為這個是全球面對長城如果你要乘以30的話長城的大概是增加了1300塊左右長城的來講還有票價的問題有可能現在是票價貴一回事但現在有一些航空公司是飛一班虧一班因為油真的太貴了所以也演變成有一些國家來我們看下一張"},{"start":3410.876,"end":3417.104,"text":"抱歉有一些國家向您更正一下長城市有每年每人45.5美元調漲為117美元那117美元算起來的話就差不多3000多塊3000多塊對不對對好"},{"start":3425.856,"end":3449.706,"text":"部長這一些都還是第一步因為才一個月那中東戰事什麼時候衍生我們不清楚所以現在世界各國包括日本、印度、新加坡都已經有調整甚至什麼甚至就是要求其他航空公司來到這個國家的話我不加油要他自己帶油來飛自己飛回去有一些國家已經這樣做囉那台灣有沒有考慮跟緊"},{"start":3451.423,"end":3465.722,"text":"向委員報告有沒有去研議因為就變成是如果說我們之後我們的油也變成是一個戰略物資能源物資那我們當然優先給我們國捷航空嘛那如果說其他航空公司飛來到台灣他帶油來飛啊"},{"start":3466.443,"end":3485.511,"text":"是沒錯像委員報告這個部分我們其實內部有做過討論幾個原則第一國內如果真的燃油在緊迫的狀況底下當然以國際航空為優先條件是什麼不要講原則我們就講條件就是說你應該有劇本就是當到達什麼時候譬如說假設中東戰事持續延長"},{"start":3486.651,"end":3513.256,"text":"兩個月那我們就要採取這個措施還是我們的庫存油量到什麼時候的時候我們採取這個措施像委員報告我們其實要跟中油這邊來配合看中油的公油的狀況怎麼樣它的供給如果沒有問題那我們就不緊迫但它的公油的部分我們有跟經濟部保持聯繫如果說到了只剩下大概一個月或兩個月我們大概就會用緊迫的條件來處理那我們現在原則是這樣到達緊迫的時候"},{"start":3515.476,"end":3541.342,"text":"國籍為優先所以部長我們能夠預測中東戰事什麼時候會結束嗎這個沒辦法預測沒辦法所以要料敵從寬啊對沒錯其他國家已經有因應了是因為我知道我們很多的航空公司我們國籍航空也就是說現在都要載油去飛不能在其他國家加油了是 像委員報告現在只要是其他的國家不讓我們加油的那他們一樣他們的飛機進來我們也不給加油已經實施了嗎我們的原則就是這樣"},{"start":3542.082,"end":3563.9,"text":"所以現在開始實施那現在有哪一些國家不讓我們去那邊加油報告委員目前是沒有有喔這樣子部長你的資料掌握不夠清楚因為目前本席之道確實是有包括泰國包括幾個東南亞國家確實是有他的他不是完全不供油他還是供油只是有限制的油量"},{"start":3564.52,"end":3588.432,"text":"所以基本上並沒有說全部限制就是沒有像委員講的說他就不供油他不會不供但是有限制量部長我建議您再好好去了解一下因為可能您掌握資訊沒有那麼的清楚跟準確那本席現在只要說要求因為這個是公平原則油是大家用那如果說我們買回來的油當然是先供應給我們自己國內以及我們國際航空好那再來"},{"start":3589.432,"end":3614.333,"text":"所以剛剛確定一個原則就如果說有哪一個國家宣布這樣的狀況那我們也對等採取這樣的一個因應那我們不會主動的去先講說我們不供應因為其實另外一個方面台灣的這個庫存油量其實對比其他國家來講我們不是前段班可以這麼講這很客觀嘛所以我們有沒有要採取先因應的超前部署"},{"start":3615.46,"end":3644.9,"text":"這個部分我們會跟中油公司保持聯繫那我們也會問他像委員今天在關切那我們就會問他說有沒有辦法具備一個月或兩個月的存量那我們目前存量多少我們希望中油公司可以提供給我們好 那另外本席也在看到就是有包括南韓他們現在行車管制可能已經擴及到一般國內就是說不只是現在航空業南韓現在有針對伊朗戰爭能源吃緊的狀況已經對於公務員率先先限制開車管制"},{"start":3645.621,"end":3663.597,"text":"就是說建議公務員就先不要開車然後節省這個油量那當然這是南韓的一個做法但我覺得這也是我們現在應該要去思考的就是說部長你剛剛講到因為這個是跟經濟部息息相關能源掌控或是在經濟部可是交通的問題是我們交通部也因此"},{"start":3664.398,"end":3690.008,"text":"本席具體建議應該現在即刻就要交通部跟經濟部趕快來做一個聯合的會議並且充分的了解到底我們的油量控管到什麼程度以及我們第一階段第二階段第三階段要採取什麼措施因為我們不知道中東戰事什麼時候會結束但是料敵從寬以及我們要有比較寬裕不要說現在大家還是一樣就說"},{"start":3691.364,"end":3716.899,"text":"過平常生活但沒想到到最後勒緊褲帶的時候反正大家適應不良預先的讓國人知道我們的步驟反而會讓國人有所預防這樣子是不是也可以減少後續有可能帶來的衝擊謝謝委員的提醒我覺得這個提醒相當的好我們會趕快來跟經濟部這邊來聯繫他們供油的部分可以提供在運輸方面的油能夠提供多久的時間"},{"start":3718.119,"end":3732.128,"text":"這個相關的措施什麼時候可以跟本市以及我們交通委員會兩個禮拜內可以沒有問題好兩個禮拜內請讓國人知道是說我們因應因為這個不是開玩笑我想我們2300人共同面對那再來還有一個問題是5月12號"},{"start":3736.257,"end":3759.809,"text":"淡水的大日子我們淡江大橋完工聽說現在連鋪路的濾青都有缺料飆漲的狀況那會不會影響我們淡江大橋完工像委員報告我們這個價格確實是有提高不過也很感謝工程會的協助我們有特別跟廠商這邊來做協調價格雖然提高但是淡江大橋所需要的大概400"},{"start":3761.49,"end":3777.096,"text":"或者是450公噸左右的這個濾清的部分我們已經備備好了備備好了所以對於整體的通車時程不會受到影響好那可是現在濾清的這個原物料的調調漲多少是調漲多少是不是我請局長"},{"start":3778.577,"end":3804.254,"text":"簡單回應一下根本就我所了解的部分大概從今天4月1號大概我印象中是16%還是12%大概是這樣子去長了1.515%左右嘛對不對是針對濾清油的部分好所以未來可能的狀況假設中東再次沒有結束的話有可能連全國的這些公路有需要用到濾清鋪設的部分也會受到影響是不是那這有什麼因應的措施"},{"start":3805.034,"end":3831.459,"text":"這個部分的話工程會後面就會統一來這個做一個處理因為大概因為是屬於這個整體工程的部分啦之前大概就是有反應給這個工程會那工程會這邊他們大概也在好本席提醒啦就是說這不要受到我們的這個道路的一個鋪設的一個問題那最後部長本席還是要為地方再請命一下好前兩天本席陪同侯友宜市長前往我們淡水再去視察"},{"start":3833.007,"end":3855.468,"text":"淡海輕軌南海線二期的先行工程我們已經先做那本來也期待是說能夠跟淡江大橋譬如說通車的時候能夠有一起的一個規劃但現在最新一次報了行政院13次最新一次是2025年11月已經通過鐵道局審查通過交通部報行政院了"},{"start":3855.908,"end":3882.08,"text":"那半年過去了 到底我們現在淡海輕軌藍海鮮二期以及大家關心的淡江大橋未來延伸的八里輕軌能不能給我們一個十三次咧我說你要審查嚴謹沒有問題三次兩次我們趕快全部都再調整也都調整完畢了那但是現在十三次了五年五個多月過去了那我們的進度在哪邊"},{"start":3882.84,"end":3904.43,"text":"謝謝委員的關心這個我相信淡水的鄉親大家都很關注我們也希望他能夠趕快那不過現在很像在新北市這個部分在那個河岸旁邊輕軌的位置上面已經調整了這個部長這你又不了解了因為局長其實也都很清楚現在還有新北市捷運局的相關人士也都有過來已經調整了我請局長來說明"},{"start":3906.411,"end":3923.69,"text":"他就在這第十三次的時候已經報回去請注意一下時間來委員這個部分我們來努力希望他快一點我們希望他快一點就當然是快一點但是已經過半年了現在是不是計畫已經又報到行政院了"},{"start":3924.899,"end":3943.899,"text":"現在在局裡面現在還在鐵道局在鐵道局在鐵道局但你之前跟我講不過說已經有在報局裡面報行政院因為沒有在這是報到部裡面那部裡面因為還有要跟新北市政府確認剛剛講的這個議題上面的確認度這件事我們只要跟新北市政府確認好大概就可以很快的來進行"},{"start":3944.54,"end":3966.652,"text":"好 向委員報告上一次本席上一個會席一樣問您一樣是用這個態度部長建設不分黨派只要能夠讓地方好我相信大家都期待不管是南海縣輕軌二期尤其是它是淡海輕軌的最後一里路連接整個完整路網才可以完整所以我真的要拜託部長"},{"start":3967.672,"end":3989.306,"text":"5月12號我相信連總統也會來我們淡江大橋這邊來做開工落成的一個部分嘛希望真的能夠到時候來帶來一些好消息好不好好我們謝謝謝謝好我們現在紅委員喔接下來我們請李坤哲委員發言不好意思錄"},{"start":3992.675,"end":4013.663,"text":"謝謝您敬獻召委請一下陳士凱部長高鐵史哲董事長台鐵鄭光源董事長鐵道局楊振軍局長召委召委好好我們請請部長好"},{"start":4019.656,"end":4048.304,"text":"委員長部長好最近國人對於高鐵漲價的問題甚有疑慮那對於台鐵的安全的狀況也深表擔心那高鐵的漲價當然它有一個調整的機制每年的四月當然是由交通部來訂定票價的一個基準然後高鐵來做調整票價與否的決定然後再送董事會"},{"start":4049.344,"end":4074.923,"text":"如果同意之後最後是要送到立法院來核備那當然在2026高鐵的一個基本匯率如果按照推算他從台北到高雄大概有290元的一個漲價空間那這個問題我們在過去我在交通委員會對於高鐵10多年來多次提到漲價的議題的時候我就有一個中心的原則"},{"start":4076.184,"end":4084.432,"text":"就是高鐵的問題是在運量不在於票價那我們看到高鐵的旅客總能吃"},{"start":4085.359,"end":4111.177,"text":"逐年的增加2024年的總人次啊達到7825萬那2025呢上漲到8207萬高鐵每天搭乘的日均人次啊在2025年的時候是22萬人次左右那2026二月啊已經提升到24萬人次那高鐵的營收啊也提升了2024年是531億"},{"start":4114.719,"end":4141.99,"text":"那2025年提升到546億那我請教一下部長對於高鐵漲價的這個問題你有什麼看法好 向委員報告我們目前高鐵它的這個基本費率交通部已經有訂定了它確實還有可以漲價的這個空間那不過它到底要漲或不漲這個由高鐵公司來決定那我目前聽石總市長的說明應該目前公司還沒有提出這樣子的案子"},{"start":4142.29,"end":4160.266,"text":"那詳細的部分請董事長說明一下好 謝謝委員的關心我想每一年基本這個票價的基準都會進行檢討依照物價指數不過長期以來高鐵目前是都沒有提出漲價的方案尤其是我們現在預量攀升以及我們現在目前的重點是在新車的導入"},{"start":4161.787,"end":4182.118,"text":"那今年7月出場 8月到港 明年中會即將開始分批上路因此我也多次的宣布 宣示就是我們會在新車成功導入上路之後我們才會提出票價的檢討那現在旅客的人次增加 營收也增加那今年年底 我們現在原本有34組的高鐵的這些車輛"},{"start":4184.98,"end":4202.262,"text":"那在年底預計12組的車輛會再進來12組通通在年底都會進來嗎12組他在今年中會陸續到港之後還要進行相關的測試到明年完成測試在明年中開始才會分批上路完全上路要到2028年"},{"start":4203.752,"end":4230.041,"text":"所以到2028年來上路所以票價調整的議題在2028年之前沒有漲價的問題是不是來說明我們目前是以新車成功上路導入之後我們要開始檢討票價的問題而票價的問題特別是要處理我們既有34組車輛的這個太久換行好 謝謝董事長我現在再請教陳部長對於台鐵的問題"},{"start":4231.641,"end":4255.179,"text":"台鐵每天有66萬到70萬的人次來搭乘對於台鐵旅客的準時送達目的地以及他的安全的維護是我們交通部跟台鐵公司最基本最重要的責任那我們看到3月27號發生了急電工跟電車線的脫落的議題我記得在2014年"},{"start":4261.138,"end":4281.805,"text":"台鐵的集電供跟電車線也發生過嚴重的脫落以及相關的故障問題我記得當時的台鐵局長是周永輝局長謝謝周局長在當時經過我們的督促全面的一個更新那經過10多年現在又出現問題這個造成列車誤點20小時"},{"start":4288.257,"end":4315.288,"text":"這個台鐵的形象真的是被受打擊然後在3月30號福隆往大理站的方向車輛沿邊坡滑落這個真的讓我們嚇了一大跳這個想到2021年4月2號太魯閣的這種工程車滑落造成重大傷亡的事件明天是週年紀念阿嬤好知道"},{"start":4316.516,"end":4337.971,"text":"大理有很多廳公廟,有地方有保庇那個滑落真的是問題會非常的嚴重那其實運安會現在也立案併案調查不管是3月13日或3月30日啊認為這已經不是偶發事件這是系統性的問題啊是台鐵公司安全系統性的問題啊"},{"start":4339.858,"end":4364.493,"text":"部長來說明一下我們你有沒有掌握狀況報告委員您所說的這三件事我們都有掌握狀況而且在發生的同時我們也跟董事長跟總經理密切在聯繫看怎麼樣協助讓我們的旅客能夠順利的來通行那另外針對後續的檢討的部分其實我們對於三二七的現在不只是不只是集電工之亂不只是電車線之亂"},{"start":4366.574,"end":4369.678,"text":"還有吊車廠之亂 吊車廠造成這種車輛的互相撞擊造成嚴重的損害車輛甚至直接衝上站台"},{"start":4380.311,"end":4409.711,"text":"這都是系統性的安全問題你們有提出什麼改善的方案嗎或是調查什麼時候會出來我們針對3月27號的調查已經出來了而且有提出幾項方案第一就是說我們SOP不足的部分標準作業流程不足的部分我們要檢討那第二我們針對設備到底有沒有問題口頭的檢討民眾已經無法接受了我看台鐵的吊車事故2023年有六件"},{"start":4411.872,"end":4420.298,"text":"2024年有8件2025年去年有10件今年到現在為止已經有5件"},{"start":4422.162,"end":4447.095,"text":"我們的人力是否應該要增補相關的人力我們的吊車人員的訓練是不是要加強我們的教練制度就是他受完訓之後也必須要有資深的這種教練來陪伴至少兩個月然後他才能去獨立作業還有我們的對於員工的照顧是否足夠我們應該啊對於"},{"start":4448.713,"end":4476.436,"text":"員工的機率措施也要加強啊例如說這種無責任事故的獎勵或是提高夜點費讓我們的工作人員有好的這種作業的狀態來 部長那你整體說明一下好 報告委員其實您說的這個夜點費的部分我們已經做了那另外針對您剛剛所提的每一項人力夠不夠教育夠不夠然後他的這個教練制度做得好不好我認為台鐵公司現在即刻來 請台鐵公司說明一下台鐵公司說明一下"},{"start":4478.297,"end":4488.388,"text":"是委員跟您報告在教育訓練方面我們現在積極在做剛才您提的這些我們發生這個不管是3月27號或者3月30號吊車場這個問題其實都是人為的似乎"},{"start":4493.553,"end":4520.691,"text":"SOP都有那但是沒有操作所以針對這一點的話我們現在3月26號開始的已經有一個巡查每個九五運安處還有相關的主管單位然後到各處去就這個SOP的落實度那如果沒有落實的話那主管還有這個人員我們現在台鐵長期的人力不足也是一個嚴重的問題我們薪資的競爭力差然後職員的結構老化"},{"start":4523.793,"end":4546.471,"text":"而且少子化也造成社會的整體的一個缺工那有經驗的熟練的這些員工逐漸的退休新進的人也補不進來而且新進人員的離職率是非常的高那人力短缺我們應該要導入新興的科技來減少作業的一個負擔"},{"start":4547.432,"end":4562.117,"text":"不管是遠端的控制系統或是群島的關閉裝置等等的自動控制系統防止這種導入車輛防止碰撞的一個技術建立自動煞停的機制還有我們電車線"},{"start":4565.218,"end":4586.463,"text":"這種環境風險的感知方面也必須要加強啊不是裝了之後等到他壞了再來換新我們有沒有這種智慧鐵道的監控系統來導入AI的影像辨識針對這些急電工或者是電車線老化的現象我們能夠及時的去做維修來說明一下"},{"start":4587.182,"end":4613.808,"text":"各位報告 事實上我們在人力不足的方面我們先用是從基層的一些主管等人員譬如說電車線的處理 電務上的 公務上的 機務的我們用鼓勵一些從業人員用各地方直接去招募而不是由總公司這邊在招募這個成果在過去半年內有相當的成效我們先希望把這個基層的員工先把它補齊"},{"start":4614.628,"end":4630.235,"text":"那至於說在智慧化這方面呢我們也陸續在但是這一部分的話恐怕我們要再晚一點再做因為現在我們最重要的是把教育訓練整個60度的把它做好現在那個鐵道局也有導入這種鐵道的智慧監控系統"},{"start":4631.215,"end":4652.054,"text":"那我們針對這種集電工或電車線它的這種張力的異常電車線的張力異常或是設備的鬆脫或者是相關的結構變形我們有一些前期徵兆要來進行監測不是等到有故障的再來做維修然後一故障就造成"},{"start":4654.093,"end":4676.81,"text":"霧點達到快20個小時這對旅客的行程衝擊非常大跟委員報告確實這在用這種AI這些技術我們有一部分的在譬如說在東岸這邊的話我們跟中華電信那麼有一個系統已經在做這個影像的辨識那像這個我們也都會逐漸的來擴展到其他的地方"},{"start":4677.17,"end":4702.45,"text":"部長要全力的督促不管是在清明節相關交通的疏運而且是高鐵的服務效率以及台鐵的安全狀況都必須做一個精準的掌握在過去在連假或是清明節的假期常常會發生特別的這樣的一個交通異常的事故請部長要全力的督促以上謝謝委員好 我們也謝謝李崑哲委員的發言"},{"start":4703.591,"end":4717.998,"text":"我們現場委員已達法定人數我們先確定上次的議事錄各位委員對上次的議事錄有沒有問題如果沒有問題的話我們議事錄就確定接下來我們請陳青龍委員發言謝謝主席那請我們陳部長"},{"start":4737.768,"end":4758.777,"text":"部長好部長跟我一樣來自台中來自地方地方民眾的心聲我們應該有共同的感受我跟部長提到我的感受民眾的感受就是我們的罰單"},{"start":4761.428,"end":4782.506,"text":"這個開例這個越開越多那事故的死傷這個案件並沒有明顯的下降人行地利的這樣的一個惡名還是無法抹除我這邊簡單的一個統計資料保證你看一下那我們在民國111年的時候"},{"start":4788.05,"end":4790.394,"text":"我們的交通發展開了1385萬件我們的事故也達到47萬件"},{"start":4801.072,"end":4808.498,"text":"整個罰單的開立是整個往上升到我們去年罰單開到1631萬件死傷事故的案件來到了53.6萬件整個統計"},{"start":4819.685,"end":4843.593,"text":"事實就告訴我們你罰單開得越多你的交通事故並沒有減少那這樣的一個過程我們就發覺到其中的一個狀況我們的整個罰單的罰款收入依照我們目前這個道路及交通違規罰款收入分配及運用辦法"},{"start":4845.253,"end":4856.659,"text":"那麼多的一個交通罰款收入75%是還分配到我們各地方政府那24%分配給我們的處罰機關1%結繳國庫那我們在這樣的一個罰站分配給地方75%的一個部分我們只有"},{"start":4871.743,"end":4878.698,"text":"12%要求它分配給地方政府的這一%要來強制助於交通安全的改善"},{"start":4879.878,"end":4907.95,"text":"在這樣的一個現象我相信部長來自地方也了解你認為這樣的分配合理嗎取之於我們全民的發展收入那麼多的罰款收入你其中分配給地方75%之後你只強制12%要來助於交通安全的改善這樣的分配合理嗎 部長"},{"start":4908.93,"end":4935.51,"text":"請問一下我認為相當不合理你認為相當不合理嗎相當不合理所以這個部分其實我們有提要修法因為說實在話交通的罰單的目標跟目的是希望交通能夠更安全更安全啊不是為了罰款的罰款啊應該要放在交通安全相關的這個部門看要怎麼樣去改善交通這個部分我們已經有提出修法我們希望能提高到百分之三十"},{"start":4936.25,"end":4955.691,"text":"我也提出修法我在這個會期啊一擔任一就任我就提出修法為什麼要提出修法我們來看我們現在我以六都直轄市為例子你看從台北新北桃園台中台南高雄我們分配給地方的金額"},{"start":4956.852,"end":4977.091,"text":"台北24億多 新北24億 桃園17億 台中20億 台南11億 高雄16億多我們目前 以目前分配辦法 強制用在交通安全改善12%分配只有差不多2億元左右的這樣的經費"},{"start":4978.908,"end":5000.905,"text":"我提出的修法我認為75%給地方地方的75%應該就要來做交通安全的改善你認為合理嗎報告委員我認為應該要全部放在這個交通安全的改善我認為很合理那你認為是百分之百還是百分之75還是剛剛你所說你要修法的幾%30%"},{"start":5006.61,"end":5024.98,"text":"兩個數據跟委員報告實際上地方所得到的不是只有75%以直轄市來說他們得到99%所有的罰款他得到99%那我們目前提啦因為過去是12我們希望至少要提到30不過我們也很歡迎也很感謝委員在提出能夠更高的版本我們希望交通安全"},{"start":5027.321,"end":5048.264,"text":"既然這些罰單都是我們人民他辛苦的血汗錢不得不來繳罰款那他因為違反交通安全而被罰款這些款項拿來做交通安全的改善是理所當然而且也是一定必然的嘛是沒錯"},{"start":5049.705,"end":5070.76,"text":"好那我們從這個比例來看如果今天各地方政府有這樣的一個專款這樣的一個費用所以交通的一個改善我相信人民的感受也會比較好是沒錯對不對那整個交通安全提升工程方面的改善速度就可以加快很多"},{"start":5071.62,"end":5099.037,"text":"對啊 我相信你來這地方啊現在現在各地方政府常常就把這個罰款的收入納入他財政缺口變成小金庫對 變成那個小金庫啊你各地方政府的財政缺口用人民罰款的費用作為他的財政缺口的挹注變成小金庫而不用再交通安全的改善所以我才會就任之後就提出修法"},{"start":5099.577,"end":5119.006,"text":"希望這樣的款項直接用於交通安全 道路安全的改善好不好 我們一起來努力讓這個修法能夠通過好 謝謝部長接下來我來請我們這個開設公司我們曾董事長我想這兩天應該這個禮拜"},{"start":5124.048,"end":5130.676,"text":"我們真的還蠻辛苦的啦連續的開會剛剛我們有委員也提到光這個禮拜從327、328、330包括昨天連我們在新烏日站那個旁邊還有"},{"start":5144.691,"end":5157.017,"text":"還會有些個火災的發生而且是我們台鐵的協力廠商的一個戰車廠的一個問題產生火災造成列車的延誤污點跟安全變成我們台鐵的指標那我請問曾董事長"},{"start":5166.321,"end":5181.141,"text":"當初過去我們對台鐵這樣的百年成科我們覺得用公司化的治理能夠來改善台鐵的一個文化那三二七這樣的一個事件"},{"start":5183.043,"end":5199.481,"text":"5.2萬分鐘整個改革整個台鐵的要求3月4月你說要求我們台鐵要認真研讀行車規章要防止路線電車線的故障你越要求越是重點"},{"start":5200.642,"end":5228.428,"text":"結果就月出包那整個這樣的過程連續一個禮拜事件一直發生那我問鄭董事長你是交通的專業你的專業大家都不以置疑那你知道台鐵一年了吧 今天啊各位不到一年九個月期待你的改革你認為公司的話真的可以解決台鐵目前的一個狀況嗎"},{"start":5230.253,"end":5251.443,"text":"我想台鐵現在這幾次的發包這次的出包完全就是一個SOP沒有落實那換句話說譬如說像3月27號這個部分的話應該在這個集電工的這個檢修方面一定要檢修但是他沒有完全落實檢修另外一個司機員遇到了這個我們的這個真空電路器"},{"start":5252.163,"end":5263.31,"text":"壞掉的時候啊應該要求要馬上停車檢查他沒有做那我就告訴那個副市長你們SOP給我的齁都非常OK都非常好你們SOP都做得很好啊但是人員沒有確實去依這個SOP去接應嘛"},{"start":5277.779,"end":5300.9,"text":"很明顯而且最重要的我以旅客我作為一個台鐵的一個旅客的一個感受你們事故發生你們的通報你們對困在車廂裡面的旅客還有繼續要可能要去做我們台鐵的旅客你們整個通報的機制都不完成"},{"start":5302.061,"end":5315.979,"text":"通道提示整個後續的一個辦理我只感受到要不你就退票就好了你就是退票就好了這樣的一個惡性循環一直在道歉"},{"start":5317.821,"end":5326.833,"text":"檢討 抱歉 檢討這樣的過程啊 所有可以來解決是 我想謝謝委員這個抱歉不是能夠解決問題我們現在最重要的是針對這個問題怎麼來做像以這個case我們現在來做的話就是說我們要強化我們整個應變的機制"},{"start":5335.004,"end":5355.307,"text":"應變的機制說在整個有一個小組那麼在行動中心裡面協助他把我們的整個後續的車班的這個規劃重新調整調整以後的資訊很快的能夠到報告給這個車站跟列車上的行動的列車長讓你都知道所以說孫總市長希望用你的專業"},{"start":5356.488,"end":5376.892,"text":"真的可以徹底的改善台鐵啦讓你可以重拾對台鐵的信心啦不然你所有人都跑去搞台鐵啦連我都不敢決定台鐵啦謝謝委員的指教我們一定會決定來做好 我們謝謝陳天榮委員的發言好 謝謝我們接下來遊浩浩委員遊浩浩委員遊浩浩委員不在"},{"start":5384.861,"end":5387.062,"text":"好 接下來我們邀請陳素悅委員發言謝謝主席 請主席先邀請部長還有台鐵局董事長請陳部長還有我們台鐵就先這兩位 這兩個單位"},{"start":5415.691,"end":5430.189,"text":"部長早還有董事長早我先要請教一下這個部長就是我們彰化鄉親非常關心的這個彰化市鐵路高架可以說是地方鄉親期盼超過應該30年的一個建設了"},{"start":5433.112,"end":5455.993,"text":"那在我們回顧一下在2018年1月26號的時候當時的行政院長就是目前的總統賴清德總統到彰化參加這個就是中央與地方落實前瞻基礎建設的一個座談會的時候當時就公開宣布就是全力支持彰化市鐵路高架然後也強調說行政院絕對會做"},{"start":5458.735,"end":5474.831,"text":"所以當時據我們了解當時事實上都有達成共識就是要將這個基檢站遷移到花壇這樣子的一個方向那我們看到在後來2022年1月3號的時候行政院也已經核定了彰化"},{"start":5476.252,"end":5501.877,"text":"這個鐵路高架化的可行性研究那當時的內容就是方案就是要把基檢站遷移到花壇這樣子的一個內容那可是我們看到一直到2024年的6月26號就是前年的年中的時候啊彰化縣政府才函文鐵道局說同意基檢站的基地確定為就是這個方案三就是花壇以及二水的貨運那"},{"start":5504.177,"end":5512.181,"text":"現在一晃眼又過了一年半的時間了那我想請問一下目前進度如何向委員報告確實我們在111年的5月27已經啟動這個綜合規劃綜規的部分我們已經啟動了但啟動之後我們有發現到一些問題陸續在解決"},{"start":5522.947,"end":5550.846,"text":"那目前還有幾個問題第一就是說二水基地的高低差的部分有這個土方的問題那這個部分可能會影響到後續的環評所以我們目前正在解決那第二個就是說Z型的這個引車道引車道的部分目前它的坡度其實是有一些問題需要再討論的目前我們正在討論當中那第三個其實是比較關鍵的目前彰化縣政府有針對幾個議題就是都市計畫的變更以及土地開發還有整體的交通的整合的規劃"},{"start":5553.107,"end":5571.565,"text":"那他也有邀集我們這個台鐵公司跟鐵道局大家正在討論這個議題那有分別在114年的8月1號10月17跟11月26號有分別召開會議但還是有一些議題還沒有共識那這個部分我們希望能夠趕快一一的來克服啦"},{"start":5572.239,"end":5585.999,"text":"是 那就這個計畫就是說在我們賴總統在行政院長任內就是公開宣布就是一定會做那到現在這樣一晃眼又八年的時間了"},{"start":5588.041,"end":5605.41,"text":"所以讓地方鄉親覺得說好像毫無進度所以在這個過程就是說中央跟地方當然要一起配合一起合作那當然本席是希望我們交通部能夠我們可以做得到的地方是不是可以加快那個速度"},{"start":5606.19,"end":5634.012,"text":"是委員在指示的這個我們自己能夠控在我們手上的我們盡量來加速這個沒問題就是說我們江東部的權責我們可以掌握進度的我們要加快他的速度那地方的部分那就是說目前剛剛部長有說明的就是這個都市計劃的相關的這些作業程序就是完全是地方政府要做的是那這部分有沒有可能我們也可以盡量再跟他們溝通希望"},{"start":5635.653,"end":5652.804,"text":"這個行政程序時常要加快好 這個部分我們來努力不過也需要地方政府因為這個會議是由他們邀集的他們召集的包含都市計畫的變更這個必然是地方政府要先做那我們希望他能夠趕快來把共識協調出來那協調出來的話進度就會加快"},{"start":5656.606,"end":5678,"text":"聽起來好像我們是被動邀請不過我們還是希望交通部可以私下再跟他們我們會主動來跟縣政府來聯繫他們的開會時間可以盡快邀集召開這樣子那我們希望這個進度可以盡快讓地方能夠感受到有明顯的一個進度這樣好 謝謝接下來我想請教一下台鐵公司"},{"start":5680.58,"end":5696.412,"text":"就是我們台鐵公司在2024年1月1號正式掛牌那掛牌之後到今天就是2026年4月1號我想先請教一下董事長這期間我們總共做了幾次的改點"},{"start":5699.991,"end":5713.24,"text":"我們基本上每半年就會檢討一次像今年的話我們在3月23號有一個小改點但是我們準備在7月1號再做一次比較大幅度的改點"},{"start":5714.105,"end":5737.394,"text":"是 好剛剛董事長說每半年做一次改點那就本席所看到的資料就是我們在2024年的6月我們有做了一次改點當時就是有就是更動了436列次的車班那在2025年的6月也做了改點有異動了386列次然後在2025年的12月就是異動了111列次"},{"start":5744.017,"end":5772.17,"text":"那剛剛董事長講的3月23號最近的這一次我們有做了一個改點就是移動了四個列次那這四個列次受到影響最大的就是園林站所以讓我們園林鄉親就會特別覺得說我們園林站園林的鄉親我們地方的鄉親好像被忽視了我就不曉得說我們這次的改點的考量是什麼"},{"start":5773.294,"end":5802.403,"text":"我跟委員報告一下我們在7月1號這邊的話我們在園林的部分我們在自強號方面我們會想辦法來增班還有一部分就是所謂增班有兩種一種是我們直接把班次增多然後加靠園林另外一個是說我們把現在現有的三班的經過靠園林的所謂的舉光號我們把它升等為自強號"},{"start":5804.428,"end":5824.265,"text":"既然董事長這樣公開的一個承諾那我們也希望就是說在7月1號我們會再做一次的大幅的一個改點那我希望這一次就是說在園林園林站的這個停號的一個班次我們要就是再增加就是剛剛董事長有答應的這個部分"},{"start":5826.99,"end":5845.023,"text":"對所以我們現在目前這個志強號呢我們停靠雲林的有48班那麼我們7月1號以後呢聯統正班的跟聯統升級的就總共會到了53列次總共有5班 增加5班因為我們雲林我們彰化縣也是123萬"},{"start":5846.824,"end":5861.234,"text":"人口的大限那最重要的站就是彰化站跟園林站就是北彰化跟南彰化所以我希望就是說我們在這個班次的考量上絕對不能忽視我們園林站忽視我們地方鄉親的這個搭車的權益"},{"start":5863.796,"end":5883.207,"text":"謝謝委員指導 上次您有交代我們想說就按照這方向來努力OK 好 謝謝董事長那再來我想請教因為這個也很多委員關心的因為又剛好就是這個清明年假要到了那在上個禮拜五就是因為電力的故障致使這個北台灣我們的這個"},{"start":5884.928,"end":5908.816,"text":"鐵道的運輸這個大癱瘓所以就這個部分我們接到民眾的一個反應就是說當時的資訊很混亂然後我們也沒有替代的方案致使很多民眾都擠爆了這個車站而且等很久所以像這樣子的事件你們有沒有做一個檢討那有沒有之後有沒有什麼應變就是精進的一個方案"},{"start":5909.096,"end":5924.967,"text":"跟委員報告有的我們現在就是說像這個情況在電車線整個中斷的時候我們馬上會有一個接駁公路的接駁這一次沒有是不是有出奇有接駁但是我們這一次先單線雙向以後"},{"start":5927.228,"end":5945.604,"text":"那我們就開始採取的這個措施這次不夠精進下一次我們會以這次為例我們會檢討我們會成立一個這個排班的小組把我們的整個班表做一個完整的這個調整然後會盡快的"},{"start":5947.245,"end":5971.622,"text":"告訴我們車上的列車長還有我們車站的負責人讓我們的旅客知道我們未來下一步他應該做怎麼樣的搭車的一個選擇是 剛剛董事長說明了就是就事故發生之後的應變那我們是不希望再有這種狀況發生所以這一次的電力中斷有去了解到底是什麼"},{"start":5973.423,"end":5999.869,"text":"這個是的我們了解主要的就是因為這個駕駛員沒有按照SOP進行他先發現我們的這個增幅電負器已經壞掉了再規定他應該停車下來然後去看我們的集電溝有沒有受損那受損的話我們就趕快要做進一步的調整但他沒有這樣做所以一路就把這個電車線一直扯扯了9.6公里大概是這樣"},{"start":6000.469,"end":6022.52,"text":"好那我想就是說這個可能就是涉及到我們的這個教育訓練的部分那這個應該也要再加強是的是好那我再最後一個問題就好就是有關田中車站因為這也是最近接到很多民眾在反映因為施工很久了因為事實上在去年動工到現在那整個田中車站就是"},{"start":6023.72,"end":6052.054,"text":"這個鷹架就是整個圍還有工程的這個施工的圍籬都圍住了那造成旅客進出不便那事實上在這個工程更早之前也因為電梯的這個工程真的就造成說這個田中車站好像經常在施工這樣好幾年了四年有了所以我覺得說這個工程要怎樣加快尤其這個我們年度的馬拉松就是都是十一月份要"},{"start":6054.355,"end":6078.232,"text":"這個工程有沒有可能在11月的時候把這個圍籬鷹架拆掉包委員這個到目前的進度來看的話到11月我們還沒有辦法完全拆除那我們估計要到明年的1月但是我們會配合這個地方的這個活動盡量把正面也就是車站正面的這些相關的這個通道跟環境整理出來"},{"start":6079.252,"end":6107.83,"text":"因為我們知道這個田中馬拉松也是國際性的賽事我們希望就是說讓國外來的旅客或者是外地來的參加這個馬拉松的跑者都能夠有好的印象我們謝謝陳素月委員的發言跟大家報告待會本席執行完畢我們就處理臨時提案黃建豪委員執行完畢我們就休息十分鐘接下來我們邀請何信淳委員發言"},{"start":6114.028,"end":6114.088,"text":"我們有請陳部長"},{"start":6125.581,"end":6147.758,"text":"部長我們都是台中隊所以你來自台中那我一向也以台中的交通建設以及問題為主來拜託跟要求您那我想這個交通的問題一定是中央地方大家一起合作吧才能夠讓一個城市不管在交通安全或者是交通建設裡面才能夠有"},{"start":6150.8,"end":6175.37,"text":"顯著的進步顯著的進步需要花很大的力氣也必須奠基在一個準確的一個數據上所以接下來我想請教一下部長我們官方有說之前公布的台中的交通死傷人數居高不下那這個數據到底是怎麼來的"},{"start":6176.772,"end":6192.366,"text":"部長您有知道我們交通部的官方數據都是怎麼來的按照我的理解你先說向委員報告這個官方的數據其實是不只是交通部也有地方政府也有警方各方面的數據綜合起來的"},{"start":6193.661,"end":6217.892,"text":"所以我們對於這個所謂的交通部公佈全國各縣市包括六都各種死傷的人數其中交通部當然是公佈交通事故交通相關的死傷人數那這個來自警方來自各地方政府來自交通部自己本身有的數據對不對對沒錯"},{"start":6219.833,"end":6244.442,"text":"好 那這個時候我就要問了如果其中有部分的這個數據來自於各地方政府以及警方的話那盧市長說對於交通部公布台中的交通死傷人數居高不下的這件事盧市長說這個叫做數據失真那我們交通部對於這四個字如何"},{"start":6245.242,"end":6274.093,"text":"反映報告委員第一我認為數據失不失真這個我們交通部絕對有把握數據並沒有失真那如果盧市長覺得有其他的縣市誤報或者是謊報那請他提出哪一個縣市我們一定會去查明這是必然的那第二其實交通死傷的數據不需要去跟其他縣市來相比跟自己相比如果我們的交通的狀況是變得劣化那就要趕快去檢討"},{"start":6275.173,"end":6302.72,"text":"趕快去檢討那如果變得好我們要找出好的原因持續把它做下去那我看到台中市的這個回答其實我身為台中市民我是擔心的面對整個數據劣化或者說交通的安全狀況劣化之後如果政府的作為是說數據不夠真實是因為我們太過誠實我覺得這個我作為市民我不太能接受我只希望作為市民我只希望交通變得更安全"},{"start":6303.26,"end":6327.151,"text":"是 你看喔 這個台中市政府還很認真的直接發文來告訴交通部還有各單位說我們第三點 戲就有六案的死亡案情都跟交通事故沒有關聯喔是因為什麼死亡前30日很認真的解釋說曾經發生交通事故 所以列入"},{"start":6327.771,"end":6349.525,"text":"我就覺得怎麼這麼用力而且認真的還直接正式發文呢來說我們的這個交通部公布的官方的數據是失真是可能不夠精準這個我是很納悶第一個納悶因為如果數據失真是直接用發公文來"},{"start":6350.445,"end":6357.547,"text":"要求交通部澄清那也做了很多說明有時候我覺得越說明越會失焦啦那也許這個就是盧市長他想要的目的啦不然呢我們一般身為行政首長我看到的這個數字就如同部長您說的好吧我也不要跟各縣市比我跟我自己比"},{"start":6372.731,"end":6398.397,"text":"我今年被公布的數據跟去年公布的數據到底是如何發展那如果是往這個居高不下發展越來越高我當然就要自我檢討看要如何改善啊如果有降低我可以跟所有的市民說我的努力所以呢我們的交通死亡事故呢是降低當中而且呢我們希望能夠的持續的降低能夠讓"},{"start":6399.437,"end":6427.35,"text":"台中這個城市越來越安全論述應該是這樣子才對吧那不是咧 我們的盧市長說因為呢 我台中最誠實申報這個你看喔 這很矛盾的一件事喔他說他誠實申報 但是他又發公文跟你講說雖然我提供這個數據啊 是我誠實申報的數據但是呢 這個呢 其中有六案呢其實跟交通事故沒有關係我倒想要請盧市長回去問看看 那當時候他"},{"start":6428.41,"end":6430.136,"text":"提出的申報最誠實的數據是誰來提供給交通部的 對不對"},{"start":6436.595,"end":6462.337,"text":"數據也是地方政府提供的啊也是他們自己誠實申報啊那現在重整起來看到這個台中的交通死傷人數居高不下結果呢反而是怪數據失真那還說到其他縣市其他城市誤報不報錯報或言報所以讓他覺得不公平啦齁這個其他縣市有"},{"start":6464.191,"end":6489.631,"text":"誤報、不報、錯報或言報這樣子的情況嗎我們交通部有沒有去問其他縣市報告委員其實全國都是一致性的標準那我們詢問的時間也都是一致性的所以我還是要強調就是說跟自己比不用跟其他縣市來相比跟自己比我們希望交通越來越安全死傷的數字可以在每個都市都能夠跟自己比的狀況底下越來越下降"},{"start":6490.131,"end":6514.814,"text":"那裡面有提到以30日的事故的問題其實我們交通部也有做另外一項的精進那過去A30確實很多縣市有在反映但我們現在A1跟A30都會來提供所以兩邊的數據都可以提供給社會來看但重點是要跟自己比要有進步要有進步要更安全嘛那所以我以公車事故為例我之前也提過這個問題台中史商六都最高"},{"start":6516.207,"end":6543.752,"text":"這個就是要自己要檢討嘛為什麼我們以公車事故剛剛是交通事故整體的一個比例現在呢以公車大型車這個事故為例公車事故台中的時尚也是六都最高啊數字是會說話的而且呢這些數字我想也不是只有台中市自己提供啊六都台北新北桃園台南高雄大家都有提供出來的數字啊這是公開透明的對不對部長是"},{"start":6545.052,"end":6566.977,"text":"是嘛那像這種情形我就覺得台中市政府應該要告訴自己我要怎麼痛定思痛要來反省要來檢討要來做得更好做得更安全才對不是嗎好接下來我就要跟你講我也希望不是只有台中市政府自己努力啦我們交通部中央可以協助的部分我也覺得要拜託部長啊是"},{"start":6568.317,"end":6596.396,"text":"找出我們預言所曾經呢以台中市的水南經貿園區跟台灣大道做一個實作的場域做了一個智慧交通的數位神經中樞的一個系統開發跟驗證實作那呢 112年呢就做好了而且也提出對台中交通的一個改善建議那我只是希望說中央我們不是只有研究計畫"},{"start":6597.737,"end":6626.045,"text":"而已我們如何實質的透過你們講的5G、AIoT、AI、大數據、智慧控制系統的驗證等等這些要能夠落地要能夠大量的應用在我們的城市當中解決交通問題讓所有人車道各項措施能夠落實到位改善讓整個交通環境是安全的"},{"start":6626.505,"end":6645.976,"text":"那部長我們對於這樣子的一個研究計畫我請交通部也請部長您承諾是不是可以再多給資源讓台中讓各個地方政府能夠真的有一套屬於自己的智慧交通的數位神經中樞我們台"},{"start":6646.756,"end":6666.37,"text":"曾經有人說過啦去參觀智慧城市展的時候說台北是AI的大腦台中可以做AI的身體我是認為我們台中不是只有做AI打造身體之用而已台中也該屬於有自己的AI大腦台中自己的城市"},{"start":6666.97,"end":6689.09,"text":"如何將AI真正應用在整座城市裡面各個層面這個就是我們台中是有底氣也是做得到的但是我也希望交通部中央可以來支持部長可以嗎好 報告委員台中市政府願意做這方面的改善跟精進交通部一定全力來支持好 那我想知道是運營所在這裡"},{"start":6690.795,"end":6699.202,"text":"對於你112年就已經提出來對台中交通的一個改善的建議你看到目前為止台中市的各項改善有落實執行嗎"},{"start":6704.491,"end":6731.437,"text":"來請說你的意見專業意見是跟委員報告事實上透過我們在台灣大道還有水南經貿園區確實在委員剛所說的實證的結果我們透過這樣的數位神經中樞然後去偵測預測的結果我們在擁設事件的前30分鐘就可以知道了所以台中市政府交通局非常清楚因此他也在那個台灣大道跟水南經貿園區"},{"start":6732.517,"end":6746.182,"text":"然後去在30分鐘前然後下到他的所有的耗資的實質計畫裡面去可是你知道會展中心就在水南經貿園區會展中心呢 上個禮拜的工具機展整個塞爆整個塞爆停車嚴重不足然後呢 預警 你講的什麼預警系統完全沒有發揮功能 為什麼塞爆"},{"start":6761.099,"end":6776.513,"text":"報告委員預警是預警但是預警之後的作為才是重點對啦部長我要的其實就是這一句話啦那我們中央拜託中央我們也來支持也來幫忙台中市政府好了啦如果他們自己不會做"},{"start":6778.052,"end":6796.837,"text":"對不對我們都給了他改善也給了錢然後也給了資源那還是一樣的塞爆還是一樣的沒有改善其實重點就是在台中市政府地方政府自己到底有沒有真正的作為跟落實改善嘛對不對那我們要有這個智慧交通的一個這個"},{"start":6798.817,"end":6814.949,"text":"智慧控制系統智慧交通不是只有口號是要落實要應用要真正發揮功能這個部分我會持續跟交通部要求希望能夠支持我們台中市好不好部長我們會協助台中市沒問題"},{"start":6815.469,"end":6840.081,"text":"好 最後一個就只有一個地方建設這個請部長能夠積極有效率的加快腳步台63線銜接國道3號的一個系統高價化的一個案子這對我南台中部的入網是一個非常重要的最後一塊拼圖部長現在你們報行政院行政院轉國發會國發會又已經喊轉交通部了"},{"start":6843.72,"end":6859.83,"text":"向委員報告 目前我們又把修正意見做好了 又回到行政院了我相信可行性研究可以很快的完成好 那再拜託了 好 謝謝好 謝謝何庭辰委員 我們現在請林俊憲召委發言好 謝謝主席"},{"start":6866.772,"end":6875.21,"text":"本席邀請我們交通部陳部長來請陳部長我們中華電信的簡董事長簡董事長我們高鐵的施董事長施董事長"},{"start":6882.847,"end":6897.675,"text":"委員好部長好部長我今天特別邀請兩位跟民眾生活關係最密切的兩位董事長中華電信還有我們台灣高鐵一起來探討幾個問題第一個問題"},{"start":6901.175,"end":6922.511,"text":"我想我先請教中央電信簡董事長你有沒有知不知道這個事情就是台南亞太棒球場正式啟用報告委員知道3月29開幕戰當天這個整個台南亞太棒球場的區域轉播都斷了訊號全部都沒有網路因為我們的總統是棒球迷"},{"start":6923.857,"end":6950.266,"text":"也是私迷總統賴清德他是全場看到我們都陪他我們都在那邊看球但是整整差不多四個小時三四個小時現場完全沒有手機訊號連總統旁邊的隨行助理市政府很多要聯絡事項的全部都沒有手機訊號一直到就是說"},{"start":6954.579,"end":6978.434,"text":"總統看到球賽快結束總統要離開我們也陪同總統到總統的車隊上車已經在場外了當場還是完全沒有手機訊號擅長的時候當天幾乎滿座兩萬三千多位民眾出來很多民眾看到我就抱怨就在那邊罵沒辦法聯絡完全都沒有手機訊號"},{"start":6983.071,"end":7004.843,"text":"聽說只有台哥大有啦中華電信案遠傳都沒有訊號那台哥大為什麼有訊號因為台哥大他有超檢部署啦他知道那天人會很多所以就開一台訊號出去啦所以正事啊現在職棒的球季已經開打經常性的會在台南的亞太棒球場來辦"},{"start":7006.677,"end":7022.042,"text":"比賽啊不可以再有這種狀況請立刻改善來 董事長好 委員我給你報告我給你報告就是這個開賽我們知道大概容納兩萬五千人那天確實也剛好都是差不多兩萬四、兩萬五事實上中華電力之前"},{"start":7022.922,"end":7034.245,"text":"我們在裡面就有20個細胞當時是有增加到32個細胞那確實因為人湧進來之後那個提供細胞的電力過熱所以細胞有時候飄來飄去所以那個訊號會斷斷續續確實當時有這個現象後來調適大概經歷了50幾分鐘好那這個現象已經發生後面我們要改善一步你內腔會不會曝光"},{"start":7049.81,"end":7054.273,"text":"現在就是有採取三個動作啦一個就是細胞在增加第一個動作電力設備也在增加那另外就是行動車啦"},{"start":7079.71,"end":7108.429,"text":"那另外4月10號也約了這個業主 應該是台南市政府因為現在職幫 因為職幫已經開打了台北大巨蛋 四萬的 多多都有信號台南球場只有兩萬五 應該不會造成容量太大 當機的問題市政府也約了4月10號在裡面再廠刊 再增加再請我們中華電信立刻改善好不好好 謝謝那接下來我會請教高鐵"},{"start":7110.03,"end":7131.574,"text":"這高鐵的營運啊 服務啊 其實口碑都非常好啦那我接到唯一民眾抱怨最多 最詬病的 罵得最兇的就是行李空間不足像我幾乎把 我沒辦法啦 我把高鐵當捷運在上下班那我每次在高鐵上看到喔"},{"start":7133.398,"end":7145.11,"text":"看到旅客推著搭行李撞來撞去 看到很抱歉因為真的找不到行李的置放空間這個問題也反映很久了"},{"start":7145.973,"end":7165.395,"text":"我們希望高鐵能夠就盡快來改善其中我們在每一個車廂都有一個行李自放區最常發生的 我這都拿網友在網路上他們所投訴的問題基本上那個地方應該是要放大行李"},{"start":7166.445,"end":7190.614,"text":"但是有的民眾因為方便嘛他到坐 要去他的坐位陣營喔經過那個行李區就把他的行李放了不管他的行李大或小所以有時候會看見幾個都是登機箱那個二十吋的小咖的就給他占滿了因為我們的行李區 置放區只有一層所以放的東西就沒有了那有的民眾喔"},{"start":7191.533,"end":7217.276,"text":"就招來招去啦 這個車廂 下個車廂這樣找看有空間沒有啦如果沒有 沒有的 就抱著行李坐在位置上這個也是民眾拍的照片啦你看喔 那是長途搭高鐵啦他的腳部空間啊 抱一個大行李箱啊坐到中間啦 坐到腳抽筋啦那我們來看一下啦 我舉幾個例子 像日本喔"},{"start":7219.696,"end":7242.987,"text":"日本就宣傳得非常好 你看那個座位上面的那個架 那真的是放行李的你看它擺滿的都是小的行李箱 日本人已經習慣了他設下行李 讓我們登機箱 他不會放在車廂平面的那個大行李室放去 他會放在位置上面"},{"start":7244.6,"end":7263.088,"text":"我們的旅客基本上還很少有這樣的一個概念我認為這個要加強宣傳你看日本甚至於你大行李你要先預約空間還收錢你看大行李去給你放還要你收錢我們再看一下你看韓國韓國是在兩個車廂之間它都設為行李置放區"},{"start":7270.379,"end":7277.782,"text":"其實我們車廂跟車廂中間 廁所位置不算我們車廂跟車廂中間其實還有空間看能不能立刻改善再來 你看台鐵台鐵的行李區 它現在坐在地上台鐵這個做法其實非常有效 你知道嗎"},{"start":7295.256,"end":7319.678,"text":"我們的行李區就是說因為你現在放電影你沒有第二層你沒有上面這個鐵架沒有第二層你就沒有空間放了一般人就不會說把我的行李放在你的行李廳裡所以罵就罵了但台鐵那做這個鐵架我們去看就很多小行李廂 登機廂20吋的那種一直放在第二層把下面的空間讓給大行李區"},{"start":7322.096,"end":7332.175,"text":"我覺得這個行李問題現在迫切很多民怨要趕快解決 要馬上來解決那未來我們高鐵新訂製的車廂"},{"start":7335.339,"end":7357.915,"text":"更應該要把行李置放列為一個重要的設施我們請教董事長好 謝謝你的關心我想行李置放它確實是這幾年應該是全世界這個大家人移動的習慣的改變因為台灣一年有超過一千萬人是出國所以現在大行李"},{"start":7359.056,"end":7378.046,"text":"大家高鐵的旅客非常多事實上包括連國內的營運都攜帶大量的行李所以我想大概採用兩個方面來解決第一個就是有關於既有行李架的雙層化在新車以及舊車我們都會同步的要求那也會在明年上路第二個就是我要坐個美女喔拜託你"},{"start":7380.027,"end":7401.93,"text":"第二個就是說這個我們這個宣導大家民眾事實上是要把小型行李放在這個整車架上這個部分我們也會來進行我想這整體是有賴於台灣人也有功德心有的人只是不注意沒想到或者說他的方便所以經過行李區他的小行李也放在那你如果加強宣導"},{"start":7402.811,"end":7428.618,"text":"是或者是我們的台鐵工作人員可不可以也幫民眾把小行李就放在行李車上面對 我們會來全面性的來進行這個宣導我想這個是乘車禮儀我們接下來的一個重點我想大家有賴於大家互相以及我們在設備上的改進一起來促成來達成 好謝謝你說到明年我是覺得你也當逐步來改善立刻就可以做了因為這個雙程車廂"},{"start":7431.719,"end":7444.167,"text":"這你要先走啦我們是逐步改善 但是三十四組雙城的行李置放 要在這讓先走啦有在走啦 但是三十四組車要全部完成要到明年啦 好不好 好了解喔謝謝 謝謝兩位董事長 謝謝部長好 謝謝我們您現在召委那我們也想謝謝部長跟兩位董事長好 那"},{"start":7461.717,"end":7463.361,"text":"我們現在處理臨時提案 請議事人員一併宣讀"},{"start":7466.555,"end":7491.504,"text":"臨時提案一 媒體報導 臺灣世西工程顧問股份有限公司高層已有巨額獎金異常方放之情勢鑒於臺灣世西承攬多項國家重大工程 其內部治理良宇與預算運用效率直接影響公共工程品質及政府形象 原此請交通部針對臺灣世西公司有關高層獎金是否違法"},{"start":7492.004,"end":7509.276,"text":"違法發放進行行政調查與追究應否移送檢調以及企業總部與中辦購置與裝潢預算失控一事釐清原因並請於一個月內向本委員會提出書面報告提案委員黃建豪魯明哲邱若驊"},{"start":7510.97,"end":7529.464,"text":"二 鑑於現行汽車駕駛人於路邊停車或倒車入庫時多有開啟危險警告燈雙黃燈以警示周遭用路人之習慣難應現行道路交通安全規則與道路交通管理處罰條例對於燈號使用之規範較為僵化導致事務上頻繁發生駕駛人應開啟雙黃燈替代方向燈而遭裁罰之爭議"},{"start":7539.952,"end":7564.099,"text":"敬請交通部會同相關部會演繹修正違反道路交通管理事件統一裁罰基準及處理細則第12條將停車過程中開啟雙黃燈且未造成具體妨礙之行為明確納入先行勸導項目是否有當敬請公決提案委員洪孟凱 陳雪生 邱若驊 廖先祥"},{"start":7565.774,"end":7592.332,"text":"三嘉義市鐵路高架化工程完工後可打破東西區長期的交通阻隔後續橋下空間的規劃與利用請交通部及台鐵公司審慎規劃橋下空間並充分納入地方需求與民眾意見請納入應對年輕人設置攀岩場滑板場等極限運動之運動場所二對小孩子應有多元安全之"},{"start":7593.993,"end":7618.468,"text":"遊戲設施3.因應嘉義市高齡人口增加規劃適合長輩使用的體建設施4.針對家庭設置類似鐵馬休息站等可供全家都能使用之空間以上建議之相關設計規劃請於一個月內提送交通委員會及提案委員辦公室提案委員陳素月李坤澤林俊憲王美惠"},{"start":7621.026,"end":7638.665,"text":"4.針對嘉義市文化路沿嘉義郵局整修及再利用計畫進度延宕為回應嘉義市民對該歷史建築活化及當地發展需求請交通部與中華郵政就本案提出具體辦理期程且就執行進度進行專案管考"},{"start":7640.526,"end":7668.559,"text":"並確保再利用計畫應將郵局歷史文化與嘉義地方活動與特產相結合並能提供檢疫郵政與金融服務相關辦理情形請於一個月內提送交通委員會及提案委員辦公室提案委員陳素月李坤澤林俊憲王美惠宣讀完畢好謝謝各位委員那現在我們主案來討論第一案我們各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":7670.336,"end":7698.61,"text":"好那我們行政單位有沒有意見來請發言召委各位委員就提案的內容在倒數第四行倒數第四行最後這一段原此請交通部針對世西公司是不是請示召委是不是可以調整為請交通部督請中華財團法人中華顧問工程師針對台灣世西公司好"},{"start":7700.435,"end":7728.106,"text":"交通部的意見是希望修改文字是就是說在倒數第四行改為請交通部督促是不是督請督請中華官法人中華顧問中華顧問公司針對台灣市區公司那接下來好那各位委員有沒有意見好黃教授也同意好那本案就就照修正通過好 第二案各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":7730.384,"end":7753.227,"text":"好我們兩位好謝謝召委我想這個前一陣子如果說大家有看到交通新聞如果說或是說大家現在可以google一下這個路邊停車然後雙黃燈應該有看到可以看到不少的討論那就是實務上目前路邊停車按照警方的說法打雙黃的警示燈它是違規的應該要打反向燈的但實務上大家有停車我知道大家應該也都"},{"start":7755.081,"end":7777.806,"text":"習慣應該都會打雙黃燈來實際上大家在停車的時候在路上看到方向燈大家會認為說是不是要到下一個路口轉彎那其實會是一個續行的一個狀態那因為停車他一定是先停在路邊他才有可能到車路過或路邊停車所以說在打雙黃警示燈的時候他反而是更能夠警示車輛他會有驟停的一個情形反而更能提升安全"},{"start":7778.266,"end":7807.099,"text":"那我想所有的道路的一些規範規則一定都是為了提升道路交通安全來做規範的那如果說這樣子的行為符合大家開車的一個常態的行為那同時對交通安全應該是有幫助的話那是不是在這個裁罰計程上面去給他做一些調整讓他是可以算是可勸導的項目那如果說未來那個規定要不要改那再說那短期間內可以先從那路勸導下面開始來做以上"},{"start":7808.117,"end":7822.165,"text":"好 謝謝廖委員好 交通部這邊有沒有意見我們遵事辦理好 那本案就召喚通過好 第三案各位委員有沒有意見沒有意見的話召喚通過第四案各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":7823.642,"end":7838.555,"text":"沒有意見的話照案通過接下來我們繼續進行臨時提案處理完畢如果委員對上述提案補簽列入紀錄並刊登公報我們繼續進行詢答接下來我們邀請黃建豪召委發言好謝謝主席主席我們要先請交通部陳部長請陳部長"},{"start":7856.072,"end":7874.322,"text":"委員好部長好部長一開始當然真的剛剛一個臨時提案喔這個雙黃燈使用規範我們來做個是非題啦路邊臨停的時候可以打嗎目前的法規不行那突發情況緊急減速的時候可以打嗎緊急減速煞車燈自然會亮起"},{"start":7882.834,"end":7891.107,"text":"可以嗎你們說可以啦我們問過你們說可以沒關係這就是大家認知不同部分沒關係車輛故障的時候可以打嗎可以"},{"start":7892.403,"end":7912.796,"text":"那遇到大霧或大雨以致前方視線不良的時候可以打雙黃燈嗎這個是開霧燈開霧燈嘛 所以不行嘛沒有後霧燈才可以開嘛 對不對那路邊停車到車前用示警後方來車這時候可以打嗎打方向燈才是正確的打方向燈才可以嘛 不能打雙黃燈嘛禮貌的回應他車讓道可以打嗎"},{"start":7914.336,"end":7938.436,"text":"應該是不行 不行 好部長不愧是交通部長基本上你的答案都是對的就是除了剛剛我們這個緊急簡述的認知不太一樣之外但是我們要提到這個部分這個在交通道道交條例第42條只要誤打的或者說認知不同的他的裁罰標準不依規定使用燈光就是法1200以上3600元以下的罰款那我們今天跟提出來這個討論其實不管"},{"start":7940.638,"end":7958.665,"text":"哪一種情況我們要先討論說到底這個規範是要適應民情還是要加強這個宣導就像剛剛部長你提到的幾個問題以這個突發情況緊急減速或者是我們經常在路邊停車的時候我們打方向燈法規上說要打方向燈但實際上怎麼樣很多人當然會打雙閃燈那被檢舉那就被罰錢了嘛"},{"start":7960.106,"end":7981.665,"text":"那他本來的原因當然是希望說能夠警示後方說我這邊要停車或等等的所以來打這個警示燈因為打方向燈會有什麼問題因為打方向燈除非你一次倒車路過或一次路邊停車方向盤轉一次就成功了不然你那個方向燈會跳回去耶那又會被檢舉所以我覺得這個法規應該要重新的來去檢討怎麼樣適用包含剛剛信箱委員提案的那個部分"},{"start":7982.606,"end":7997.616,"text":"法規怎麼改或是說這個階段是用心勸導然後去了解一下真實的使用規範原來包含說像第六點這個禮貌回應他社交道我們常常在快速道路高速公路上切車道的時候看到前車跟我們感謝就打雙紅燈我如果檢舉他"},{"start":7998.697,"end":8020.674,"text":"他要說謝謝喔 我可以檢舉他啊12366都是罰燈就來了所以這部分交通部的立場有沒有願意去做相關的檢討跟改善報告委員這方面的規定其實是跟世界的這個標準是一致的燈號的使用這個世界有一定的標準所以我們符合世界的這個一致的規範但是委員所提的這個很務實"},{"start":8021.815,"end":8048.967,"text":"一般民眾到底理解或不理解我相信一般的民眾用車開車的習慣我自己也開車有一些確實跟我們一般的習慣是不太一樣所以我覺得考駕照的時候要大家讀到這麼細也有點困難所以我認為這個部分規範的部分依據國際的標準但在執法的過程我們希望以勸導為優先我們所理解的其實警方不會主動來抓這方面"},{"start":8049.847,"end":8069.818,"text":"那但是如果有民眾檢舉的時候我們也期待說警方是不是用勸導作為優先至少讓民眾知道說這樣子的做法可能不符合我們目前的規定那以後就要注意因為我想還是要討論就是還是要回到法規回到法規本身當初立這個法或是這個燈號我們在開設的時候打任何不管左轉燈右轉燈這個警示燈"},{"start":8070.859,"end":8092.359,"text":"他的目的是什麼嘛今天車子設計這個警示燈比如說我們放我會在這個時刻有人會在路邊臨停的時候打警示燈或在後到車的時候打警示燈或是禮貌的回應他車讓道我們都很清楚他的用意他不是為了違規或他甚至他是故他是刻意的去做這件事情結果他是違規的所以我覺得在宣導上面或在法規在這個質疑上面應該要有一個平衡啦"},{"start":8092.819,"end":8111.18,"text":"要回到原意嘛他不是故意要違規他不是就他打了這幾次並不會造成交通事故吧沒錯好不好這部分所以交通部目前條就是往勸導的方向去執行對我們希望可以用勸導讓民眾能夠理解好部長謝謝那接下來我想最近國人很關心所謂的汽車安全的問題我想這兩天這新聞都非常大"},{"start":8111.761,"end":8133.62,"text":"好有的車子也獲得這個TNCAP的這個認證五顆星那有的車已經上市了但是呢這個平等是零顆星那零顆星呢當然他們就回應說他們的車體結構很堅實而且所有等級車款都通過國家嚴謹安全審驗並取得安全審驗合格證他講的也沒有錯他確實有取得所以他才能上市嘛那問題來了"},{"start":8135.221,"end":8152.956,"text":"這個當初安全誰合格證不是你們給的可是這個TNCAP是交通部的指導下的規範你們是為了行車安全也肯定這件事情沒錯可是為什麼同樣都是國家標準前面的可以上市的標準長這樣子那後面我們TNCAP給出來的這個"},{"start":8154.298,"end":8179.361,"text":"的撞擊測試報告裡面它的特定車款它的這個平等這麼低就變成有兩套標準那麼未來能不能要求說至少上市前你要先做過這個測試再上市才可以保障用路人的安全還是說就是繼續按照現行的規範我先上市了我們再後續再來做那如果講白了這一定會造成特定車廠他們的營業有受到衝擊那就沒有意思了所以這個問題"},{"start":8181.443,"end":8189.134,"text":"這個安全標準能不能在上市前就先做到還是一定要上市之後我才能做這個實行工作好 報告委員我是不是請局長來回答一下"},{"start":8190.031,"end":8216.144,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下剛剛講的一個部分的話就是TNCAP的部分它是一個市場評價比這個國家這個強制要求應該要符的標準是更高的標準那所有剛剛委員有提到就是說車輛要上市銷售之前必須要取得審驗合格證明這個部分要符合的法規基本上就是要聯合國的法規跟歐盟跟這個日本跟韓國都這個一致"},{"start":8217.685,"end":8231.974,"text":"那現在也就是說有一些這個做TNCAP的那個標準有一些是強制法規沒有那有一些是他要求的標準比強制法規這個標準還要高所以這個評價起來就會有一顆星兩顆星三顆星到五顆星不等的這樣子的一個這個情況"},{"start":8233.095,"end":8259.832,"text":"那最近有一個車型它裡面就是說評價的這個結果這個不太好的一個這個部分的話那這裡面如果說有涉及到不是強制法規要做要求而是車子本身設計可能在於品質管理有一些瑕疵這個部分的話那就必須實施這個預警預警性的這個召喚所以現在部裡面也在做這件事情部長 局長你們剛剛講當然線型當然就是長這樣子我也清楚知道說你們"},{"start":8261.26,"end":8267.612,"text":"但是問題就是說今天以這個車型為例今天看到大家看到那個影片他是連椅子都會飛出去嘛"},{"start":8268.693,"end":8293.481,"text":"就是安全帶也沒有什麼作用嘛那未來這個事情我們在上市前有沒有辦法提高到就是說如果今天它是符合你講的法定的標準它才能出場然後我們後面再做市場上的評價那至少基本的安全都要有啊但是現在至少看起來這個狀況是在第一階段它的基本的安全都沒有看起來是沒有做到的才會有這個評鑑零分的狀況產生那我們今天要問的是說"},{"start":8294.681,"end":8322.891,"text":"這個TNCP相關的標準能不能部分的就是至少在安全性上主動安全性上把它列入在一開始出廠的法定標準裡面這個部分我大概跟委員報告一下譬如說它這個大概涉及到這個實車碰撞項目的部分那實車碰撞的部分現行這個法規強制要求已經有了那但是在這個TNCAP的部分的話它要求是相對是比較高是相對這個更高車速更快"},{"start":8324.492,"end":8345.033,"text":"所以基本我剛剛才一直跟我們報告就是說就國際通用的法規在這個十幾公里要求的這個膨脹他一定要符合才能夠上市銷售那現在在TN CAP要求到56公里這個部分比較相對比較高標準的部分的話他測試出來的一個市場評價確實是不如其他的部分"},{"start":8345.333,"end":8370.515,"text":"但是針對這樣子的一個情況的話就是陳委員講的部分未來在這個審驗端對於車廠品質一致性管控這個部分應該是有一些可以檢討再來做加強謝謝有辦法你們真的不要把這列入不然真的這個消費者沒保障因為這個車款都已經賣很久了我想也是車銷售量非常高那對消費者是一個很大的影響我覺得這個如果交通部能夠事前把這個標準放進去我覺得未來"},{"start":8371.596,"end":8390.001,"text":"有機會比較能夠保障到這個駕駛人 好不好好 我們加強事前的審驗好 那在接下來最後一題也是這個我快速講一下這個世襲的問題當然這個世襲問題會被揭露也是因為現在董事長本來發了公開信提到說過去可能之前的董事長 之前的主管層級或之前的顧問去領了這個相關的這個經費那我們這邊也取得相關的這個內部的會議資料 會議報告"},{"start":8397.611,"end":8426.262,"text":"金額當然這個前顧問這是之前的高層領了上千萬的這個獎金領走了那當然目前世襲的這個說法是說他們覺得追回就好因為在相關的本來的會議中也提到過去在獎勵辦法在個人獎勵的部分對董事長對顧問等等他其實本來的規範是沒有的那我不知道前面發生什麼事情為什麼這個顧問或相關的這些主管能夠把這麼高額的獎金領走那現在看起來"},{"start":8427.663,"end":8440.372,"text":"繳回就沒事了但是呢我想四期工程喔是交通部雖然你們沒有直接持股啦但是你們基本上也都是百分之百持股因為你們轉頭再轉頭嘛都算百分之百的關股啦但是說這樣子的狀況下面"},{"start":8442.301,"end":8456.867,"text":"有這麼奇怪的問題發生那到底交通部立場有什麼有沒有要移送減掉還是說大家把錢繳回就不算就沒事了會有這個問題報告委員這個部分其實我們世西公司之前也經過一個很詳盡的調查"},{"start":8458.388,"end":8487.055,"text":"那之前的這個幹部跟這個公司的同仁有這個領的獎金的部分程序不完備的部分那所以他們公司決定說以繳回的方式來處置那這個部分也已經繳回這個部分已經繳回我知道因為我要講說所以我要問部長的意思部長的態度嗎不該領的就不要領因為這個前面領的是未經董事會同意他就把這個錢去領走也沒有相關的規定那如果這樣"},{"start":8488.155,"end":8511.231,"text":"今天會提出來說他如果單純就是民營公司,那可能他們公司內部董事會沒意見,那大家就沒意見那現在世新你是最大股東,貴部是最大股東,可能也是唯一股東啦在這個情況下面,你作為最大股東,你對於這樣的狀況,你會覺得前腳就算了嗎?還是說應該要去處理,不管背信也好,這可能沒有貪汙啦,但是可能有背信的問題,因為他完全沒有相關的機制"},{"start":8512.492,"end":8530.981,"text":"去授權他去領這個錢那還有包含說裡面這些腐爛的報價包含大家媒體也揭露了嘛這個企業總部本來預計要買多少錢後來因為只剩多少只剩兩千兩千多萬所以我就用兩千二兩千多億我就用兩千多億去做對不起口誤本來預算這個要買的裝潢是四千萬"},{"start":8532.042,"end":8547.283,"text":"買完房地產之後 三不多錢 剩兩千多萬他說好 那兩千多萬就夠了就是你從頭到尾預算你的實施跟你的預算是搭嘎的那這樣虛報因為講真的 我在講的是如果他是純粹民營公司 那他們家的事情但是因為今天世新工程是"},{"start":8548.547,"end":8577.746,"text":"中澳交通部100%持股雖然你們沒有直接持股但是就是100%持股的狀態下這個交通部的立場是什麼向委員報告針對公司治理的部分應該要更詳盡的部分我們已經請世襲公司做檢討而他們內部的這個規範也已經做了改變那所以未來可以避免這樣的狀況發生那另外針對這個是否有法律上的問題其實我們有跟請世襲公司跟法律的專業人士還有他們自己內部的法治單位"},{"start":8579.468,"end":8584.353,"text":"那這個部分是目前還沒有跟我說要做這個司法上面的追溯所以"},{"start":8585.27,"end":8611.05,"text":"他們就算了是不是我要確定這件事情交通部也覺得沒關係目前兩關一個是世西工程本身公司裡面的法務的部分去做監管第二個他的控股公司其實是中華顧問工程師財政法院中華顧問工程師他們裡面也有做過法律上面的研析那目前就是朝向先把經費追回那建構一個更完整的公司治理的機制"},{"start":8612.051,"end":8627.683,"text":"好 不然部長 反正剛臨時提案也提到了你們要請這個中央顧問中心去提出相關報告讓我們後續看報告結果怎麼樣我們再追後面的狀況了 好不好好 謝謝委員部長 謝謝好 我們謝謝黃建豪 趙偉的發言好 那現在開始我們休息十分鐘"},{"start":8638.097,"end":8641.378,"text":"鸡蛋糕"},{"start":8659.365,"end":8659.385,"text":"謝謝觀看"},{"start":8675.771,"end":8675.791,"text":"香蕉"},{"start":8740.415,"end":8741.322,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":9239.278,"end":9263.313,"text":"好 我們現在繼續開會接下來我們邀請魯明哲委員發言好 謝謝趙偉邀請我們交通部陳部長好 請陳部長高速公路局陳局長陳局長部長 局長各位好"},{"start":9270.475,"end":9296.508,"text":"好直接切入主題首先第一個問題是左邊那個新聞把它弄得比較小一點看標題應該看得到了就是在兩年前7月21號一個標題是塞道暴內栗南下的渣道劃了將近一公里的雙白線那當時這個民怨四起因為事前沒有溝通可能因為高速公路嘛也不用跟誰溝通就把它劃上那劃上了把"},{"start":9297.528,"end":9322.839,"text":"內立交流道因為有從中立大園兩個交流道要上去的 渣道就把它關起來了大概關了900公尺那事實上我們也跟高速公路局開過協調會也透過交通委員會質詢更跟我們高工局甚至我們交通部也在聯絡這個問題必須要去解決最後得到一個答案說中方交流道中方交流道"},{"start":9324.159,"end":9339.905,"text":"上路之後上路之後因為道路本身就會拓寬開放之後對當時的一個整個站碑道都會改善那時候就可以去做一個處理了那現在因為去年的12月25我們迎接了中峰這個"},{"start":9341.385,"end":9364.165,"text":"交流道的啟用那現在也三個月了三個月到底現在這個我再問那個那天問局長說你們也在考慮看看怎麼樣有什麼建議方案那現在能不能確認一下好不好大概什麼時候可以調整要不要調整說明一下像委員報告這個部分高工局這邊已經有做過會刊那也決定要做調整那調整的時間是不是請局長這邊"},{"start":9366.788,"end":9382.761,"text":"我們因為它是兩個就是說南入的閘道其實蠻接近的那這一次中風交通道通車之後我們也做了整體的這個交通量的一些做一些調整也做一些調查那所以就是說我們就是第一個從這個內立上來的這個南入環道的這一個的雙排時限"},{"start":9387.145,"end":9397.839,"text":"我們要做一些調整把它縮短讓從這邊上來的交通量的話就可以直接併入主線然後不用到前面就是說從大園進來的才要整個合併再進來那這一個的調整的話這個我們大概"},{"start":9404.428,"end":9420.348,"text":"大概有多久我們當初估是大概因為三月份有去做大概的一個評估所以大概三個月是到六月不過我有請同仁就是說能不能盡快在下個月我們下個月五月底以前把它完成好 那要拜託一下是就是說因為"},{"start":9421.701,"end":9447.353,"text":"可以做而且已經決定要做了我們就希望速度能夠快一點當然不影響到這個交通你們是深夜去把它做一下因為畢竟只有標線的問題你們可能部分路段要重鋪重新劃線讓我們這個區塊因為內地交通道一直是我們桃園南區非常重要的交流道它不光是附近的大概幾十萬個我們的市民更重要還是中壢工業區中壢工業區500家廠商"},{"start":9450.655,"end":9469.758,"text":"那邊不管是機械電子甚至食品批發都在那裡他要撲過到全台灣往南下的車流非常非常多已經困擾很久了所以這個部分也拜託部長局長要做我們就盡快來做好不好我們加速來進行好那接下來我們要談一下台鐵公司"},{"start":9471.564,"end":9488.699,"text":"台鐵公司這個民營化因為我正好有經過民營化那個討論的一個激烈的過程當時因為這個我們畢竟陳部長那時候還沒有擔任交通部部長那在台鐵公司化當時主要的一個目標你們要達成的我們"},{"start":9491.641,"end":9510.371,"text":"2024第一年不好意思問你第二年也過了現在2026邁向第三年第三個年頭那就請教一下當時你昭告我們所有的全民不光是立法委員三大核心目標第一個安全第一安全沒有什麼打折扣我當時也質詢過很多"},{"start":9512.392,"end":9536.265,"text":"那為什麼公司化之後你們就會這個安全會提升你們有很多的說法嘛因為你們自由度啊人才找很多專家你們有很多的一個說法那第二個是提升服務的準點率第三個今天不談啦改善財務的結構但財務的結構我事先講喔我們立法院也好我們全國這個"},{"start":9538.366,"end":9550.92,"text":"只要坐火車的國民在去年的六月份你們調高平均的一個票價26.8%我也坦白講大家也說這麼多年沒調了要你們做好"},{"start":9551.96,"end":9569.137,"text":"那把你們的一些票價補足我是覺得那一陣子並沒有很多很大的一些民怨大家就好給你們讓你們的財務先做一個改善那我覺得你這個董事長你說一下好不好你覺得三大目標你覺得你打幾分啊"},{"start":9571.695,"end":9586.423,"text":"這個分數可能還是要由民眾來打分那你是覺得我是跟委員報告就是說在安全方面我們當然是台鐵的天子一定要把安全做好"},{"start":9586.883,"end":9610.342,"text":"那在這部分的話,我是覺得如果說以異常事件來看那麼前一年的話,第一年的時候是271件那去年我們少了103件那今年的話,我們現在也朝這個目標大概一個禮拜大概是11件、12件在努力"},{"start":9610.862,"end":9623.638,"text":"那這一部分的話呢我是去年六月上來那從七月開始啊我在這部分呢要求我們所有的一級主管包括最主要的是跟安全有關係的公務 電務 機務跟運務那這個主管一個對"},{"start":9626.742,"end":9646.702,"text":"可能對安全有問題的異常事件多做深切的檢討那這樣下來以後從去年七月一個禮拜大概是二十幾件我跟委員報告我們現在最近已經到可規則的事件大概只到八件、九件但十件以內所以這部分我是覺得是有很大的一個進步"},{"start":9647.182,"end":9668.131,"text":"但是所以在第二點準點力的部分的話其實也是有幫忙但是最近幾個事情可能把大家都認為說台鐵的準點力又把大家拖垮了董事長這樣好了因為我時間的關係因為其實我覺得交通部希望借重你在高鐵的一些經驗能夠來到我們的台鐵雖然那個"},{"start":9669.031,"end":9695.956,"text":"實在是那邊比較單純路線單一車型也單一你到了台鐵之後完全不一樣車型那麼多不容易啦可是我覺得安全第一你剛剛講頻率改善它的強度你可能單一事件一鍵就好了那讓全民的感受我覺得安全跟準點服務我覺得現在民眾的感受並不是很好我希望你們能夠知道這是我在去年12月29號"},{"start":9698.796,"end":9723.448,"text":"這個當時是我們總經理嘛你來回答的嘛我那時候就在問說這個因為急電工造成的不管電車線交互的影響受損程度從109年到去年啊114年怎麼越來越多那你當時一個特別回答我們全縣每天都在做這個檢查那我們也願意相信啦我們也希望拜託啦要做要做好嘛"},{"start":9723.968,"end":9740.134,"text":"要做要做實戰不能說 喔 檢查了那你現在這很我剛剛這個其他表都是我去年12月29號跟你請教的結果你3月27號你發生這樣的在三家站附近讓樹林英哥整個那邊斷線"},{"start":9741.874,"end":9763.785,"text":"而且修了特別久 修了將近到中午之後才單線雙向通車就影響到 居然是比我們去年在執行的不管是影響了班次 影響了人數尤其延誤的時間超過兩萬分鐘甚至有一個站車輛延誤310分鐘你們知道嗎 本來要坐上班的"},{"start":9764.799,"end":9791.894,"text":"結果他等到下班了我覺得光這一件事的感受這個強度由於對準點相對的安全的印象我覺得是真的很不行了那這個董事長我想你們真的要好好再檢討一下還是總經理再回答一下那急電工就是每天都在檢查對不對你也承諾了跟委員報告這個急電工的問題這一次是一個急電工造成的問題"},{"start":9792.754,"end":9818.644,"text":"但是今天主要是因為這個駕駛員他沒有按照SOP他的急電工有狀況的時候他的VCP就是所謂的這個空調電路器他應該要趕快下來看是不是急電工有造作他不應該再開他繼續再開所以就從這個一路從樹林一直到英哥那邊大概搞了大概9.6公里"},{"start":9819.884,"end":9834.679,"text":"所以就造成整個沿路的這個電車線都下來所以就造成在我們修路上非常的困難這個弄到我們部長都震怒了震怒了可是因為這個問題你不解決因為我覺得有一些是人為的問題有一些是市都的問題"},{"start":9835.62,"end":9860.736,"text":"我看到你好幾件事都是有double check的機制不管是有這個檢修人員或者司機員有好幾一堆人要看這件事情然後一樣在一堆人面前把這個事情搞砸你們讓這兩件事情讓那個這個EMU最美電聯車現在變不美了你知道嗎你現在最美區間車3月30號七五吊撞在一起了你知道前面那個"},{"start":9862.068,"end":9891.308,"text":"微笑的曲線那一天啊變成什麼剩下那個凹陷曲線不見了 剩下凹陷有趣的凹陷在這整個那個過程中而且比剛剛那個來講是司機員 檢修員你在這件事情在吊車場裡面有第一個吊車員第二個司機員第三個至少三名的吊車工配合吊車工第四個還有監控的巡控人員四組人叫做分工合作"},{"start":9892.408,"end":9909.445,"text":"合作到這樣的我覺得已經有double check你到底制度上出了什麼問題就是說簡單來說如果是真的只有一個人的出了意外互相監督居然在制度上系統上沒有辦法解決我真的覺得這個部長說三天以內"},{"start":9910.595,"end":9926.592,"text":"你要有一個明確的答案而且真的要落實到教育這種我覺得都是不應該的低級的錯誤但是不斷的發生那最後請部長你來講一下"},{"start":9927.052,"end":9953.597,"text":"報告委員非常感謝您的關心我覺得安全是最重要的我們所有的同仁的訓練是很重要的這是第一第二我們的SOP一定是有設定但第三如果同仁沒有照SOP在做的時候台鐵的問責文化也必須要啟動因為我們有看到一些事件其實不只是造成旅客的不方便更重要的是造成我們自己的同仁受傷不照SOP的結果就會造成我們的同仁受傷或者是像這個列車線把電線拉斷的問題"},{"start":9956.798,"end":9976.415,"text":"所以我認為台鐵一方面他們的SOP要重新檢討二方面對SOP的落實如果無法做到那台鐵公司的問責文化也必須要啟動好 謝謝謝謝委員好 非常感謝魯明正委員的發言好 接下來我們邀請程學生委員發言好 謝謝主席"},{"start":9985.814,"end":9991.458,"text":"中華郵政王國宅董事長老部長向你請安,沒事中華郵政簡董中華電信簡董來,請你上來一下不要偷懶,跑步跑一下主席謝謝"},{"start":10015.632,"end":10041.777,"text":"簡董那個二號海欄又斷了是不是三號二號已經斷了五月底會修好什麼時候修好五月底會不會有影響通訊馬祖的通訊沒有影響因為二號三號因為三號現在還活著對三號活著對二號斷了二號斷了現在正在修二號老到牙了嘛二號已經差不多快二十年了對"},{"start":10042.762,"end":10069.023,"text":"快90歲了沒問題吧現在現在通訊沒問題那縱使3號是前兩天因為施工又弄了一些沒有斷沒斷24星有12星弄障礙還12星還通著所以現在馬祖的通訊沒問題那縱使2號3號都斷了我們微波12.6G還可以啟動目前是沒有啟動好了好了好了這個注意一下好不好"},{"start":10069.603,"end":10089.131,"text":"不要我們老太太、老先生帶著孫子到你們中華電力門口去排隊等啊因為只有那邊才收得到訊號啊是是那跟委員報告四號海嵐應該六月底如果順利六月底會在環公社我知道我知道謝謝你辛苦了主席就請交通部陳部長好我們請陳部長委員好好久沒見了"},{"start":10096.896,"end":10119.12,"text":"不會啦有沒有一點想念嗎?前兩個禮拜才去您辦公室有來嗎?有,我有去我前兩週才去您辦公室那個大橋啊大橋還是幫我們注意一下好不好預算有,一直都在追蹤那如果有新的進度也會向您報告我前幾天打電話給您聽說院長要去馬祖我們縣長知道院長要去馬祖"},{"start":10124.36,"end":10151.769,"text":"沒有接到說要請他吃飯來幹什麼餐廳有訂因為他在馬祖堡幹什麼我全部都會知道的啦對不對不要警察知道也不要國安系統我本人就是國安系統我幾乎都會知道的也沒邀請我去啊也沒邀請我去他邀請我就會去,不要邀請我就不去我覺得這是一個尊重的問題嘛我也打電話去越南辦公室越南辦公室說"},{"start":10153.069,"end":10180.476,"text":"有通知你就有通知你,沒通知你就沒通知你,我說好反正現在院長總統都很大我們小老百姓,請你幫我轉告好不好以前再也是好朋友,現在再吵了反而變成一定要臉紅脖子粗嗎是不是我也沒砍你預算,也沒罵過你本人,也沒罵過你交通部也沒砍過你交通預算對不對那你已經七年了,大橋的預算不給我"},{"start":10181.923,"end":10199.248,"text":"你看誰有人好惹的話你就惹一下嘛我沒意見現在跟你談親民廉價輸運都準備好了沒有報告委員其實我們全國的輸運計畫都已經準備好了那您所提的航空跟海運的部分我們也都準備好了"},{"start":10200.216,"end":10221.111,"text":"不過你們ABC計畫每一次尤其對離島啊你們準備的是非常的周到啦尤其軍方啊軍方那個西凹山洞他們現在更配合的非常的好只要民防局有公文到那個國防部去他們速度都很快這一點請您啊"},{"start":10222.032,"end":10242.825,"text":"交通部這邊也花點公關費,有時候跟人家也要參敘一下慰問人家的辛勞我們該做的,我們縣政府也會做好不好我們不會失禮啦好不好清明這個書記的事情請您拜託一下好沒問題請民防局我們何局長上來好不好何局長檢何局長部長你了解"},{"start":10250.916,"end":10259.421,"text":"W-8跟W-2空中航線的因果關係嗎?你瞭解嗎?W-2跟W-8跟軍方有關係最近我發現這個整個的航道從去年12月到1、2、3"},{"start":10273.973,"end":10296.867,"text":"以前我們當然我們主航道是W2那副航道是W8那麼這四個月以前都是99%飛W8航線W8航線什麼好處呢?可以節省十分鐘可以節省十分鐘那現在從去年12月是78%1月72%"},{"start":10301.84,"end":10327.723,"text":"二月七十八三月就剩下六十九齁那麼這不是常態吧應該如果說演習的話齁中共那枚飛機在我們環島在演習很早就演習演習好幾年啦是不是那為什麼這四個月齁比較有一些狀況那軍方盡量能夠開放它就開放啦您如果不知道的話是不是請何局長回答我"},{"start":10328.864,"end":10353.073,"text":"像委員報告W2它是民航為主那W8是軍方為主不過過去因為我們這個直航的部分路線W8比較短所以我們都會去申請那不過以國防部的使用為優先過去核給我們的這個比例很高那現在他們有一些演訓的問題所以它比例有稍微降低一點不過我們走W2也是可以不過時間會稍微拖長一點"},{"start":10354.861,"end":10377.331,"text":"好 請何局長您是否了解更深入的跟我們回答一下跟委員報告確實這個就是其實因為他是會經過這個R9的限航區那如果軍方有演訓的話那基本上一定是軍方演訓優先他就不會同意我們的民航機去用這個W8的這個航路"},{"start":10378.832,"end":10405.715,"text":"那W2確實是稍微有一點彎繞就像剛剛委員講的大概要多個十分鐘那這個部分我想也是軍方延續需求要不然我們看前面幾個月其實都高達到97% 96%等等那所以說這部分我們也會再跟軍方來密切保持聯繫如果說他們這個延續需求不需要的時候是不是就盡量給我們民航機來使用我想這邊跟軍方那邊多聯繫一下嘛好不好"},{"start":10407.187,"end":10425.757,"text":"因為現在因為戰爭的問題油料持續上漲昨天我去加個油本來都加一千二現在加到一千八了我一下漲了六百塊你看一下韓國現在補貼油價他們要給民眾一萬二很像多少部長有沒有這個打算"},{"start":10428.112,"end":10455.018,"text":"其實油價的漲幅大部分已經中油有吸收了所以政府大概會透過中油吸收的部分來做補貼不會再給老闆印錢目前沒有聽到行政院有這樣的規劃不要行政院,你叫他們不要有建議你沒有建議行政院哪有院長那麼厲害全部都知道你們要給他提供好的建議因為大部分都已經中油有吸收了尤其這種建議會加分另外部長我請教"},{"start":10456.868,"end":10482.995,"text":"鄭麗文,中國國民黨鄭麗文主席是在去大陸啦我們不要一直給他唱紅嘛我們現在不是觀光啊什麼都斷掉了嗎聽說他們來我們這邊觀光還在阻撓人家又這個缺這個缺那個一大堆啊有沒有什麼議題如果執政黨不跟反對黨去藉著他去跟習近平習主席見面的機會"},{"start":10484.918,"end":10511.493,"text":"丟出一些東西我們丟個橄欖枝也可以啊是不是會有一些好的建議你不方便給他你交給我好不好我來請鄭主席幫忙提一下嘛是不是我們的建議很簡單如果中國方面願意用小兩會來跟我們做這個觀光方面的溝通其實速度就很快了很好啊你不要老是人家還沒去就講說哎呀你繼續講啊我們台灣國怎麼樣的啊幹什麼一邊一國啊什麼的你去講這個幹什麼去這邊去"},{"start":10514.81,"end":10538.555,"text":"弄和平的嘛,不是要去吵架的啊,是不是你同意嗎?不要警告啊,鄭主席啊,你姓名啊如果講錯話啦,回來要關五年喔不要恐嚇人家嘛,這個就不好啦,是不是不需要嘛,我們為了台灣好嘛,是不是我們拿到希望打仗嗎,是不是好不好,你有好的像這個觀光,小兩會如果能夠復攤啊"},{"start":10542.501,"end":10566.191,"text":"這也是正面的好不好好那最後一個問題那個何局長請回去航港局上次說那個備援船進度怎麼樣要做一條那個藍色公路藍色公路這個構想非常好啊尤其現在日本我去過日本他們跳島還有現在很多的郵輪郵輪也在跳島"},{"start":10569.898,"end":10577.327,"text":"非常好的一個公安活動啊如果這條船在被淵船買了它可以跑澎湖金門馬祖對不對"},{"start":10579.861,"end":10607.229,"text":"那甚至風浪大的時候都可以救援是沒錯然後平常沒用的話我們東引那邊的交通也可以幫忙解決非常好的事情希望你積極的部長積極推動好不好市長委員報告我們在1月30號已經報到行政院那我們預計希望能夠在118年底能夠交船來正式營運院長的態度怎麼樣我想院長是支持這個藍色公路的建制跟備援船的建制"},{"start":10608.169,"end":10627.294,"text":"好,你趁著院長現在還在,他支持這個案子的院長,你要很積極的去做,可能院長下台了嗎?他跑掉了,你要去找新的院長,就很麻煩了,好不好?主席你要趕人嘛,趕快走,我去下台吧公送陳捲生委員謝謝委員好,謝謝陳捲生委員的發言"},{"start":10635.902,"end":10653.346,"text":"好 接下來我們邀請邱若驊委員發言謝謝主席 主席先請台灣高鐵使者董事長我們請高鐵 高鐵總經理那董事長請假我們請總經理"},{"start":10663.355,"end":10685.938,"text":"總經理好 那今天要跟你討論的是 剛才稍早 趙薇今天也有提出關心嘛就是 本席這邊有看到2025年高鐵的全年運量是8207萬人次那高鐵平均每日的運量是 也有高達22萬人次嘛那我們最近也看到 看到國際機場 2026年它最新的入境人數是418萬 出境也有432萬"},{"start":10687.239,"end":10708.186,"text":"那春節連假當日也超過16萬人次 228的連假也有15萬人次嘛不管是通勤還是前往桃園機場 很多民眾都是選擇搭乘高鐵那列車搭行 行李放置空間不足的問題 那長期也普遍存在著民怨那尤其是在連續假期 還有國際觀光復甦後 還有桃園機場往返的旅客嘛"},{"start":10709.326,"end":10723.499,"text":"民眾他攜帶28吋以上的行李箱那場面臨沒有地方可以放載用總道也影響了動線那很多乘客也反映嘛大型行李區被小型行李站住那想請問高鐵那現在能放的行李件數有多少"},{"start":10725.077,"end":10745.455,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們現在舊的車原來是35我們已經增加到45了那目前來講我們在新車還沒導致之前新車可以到100、110那我們舊車準備要改到改到80那現在目前正在進行中什麼時候可以改到80"},{"start":10746.315,"end":10764.06,"text":"我們預計在今年年底看能不能蓋完因為現在目前來講我們車子只能利用非建築時段才能現在很明顯就是已經不符合旅運的需求了嘛那單日也有六到七萬人次就是搭乘台灣高鐵那你們有沒有去住過機場旅客攜帶大型行李的比例"},{"start":10766.167,"end":10792.114,"text":"這個分析我們是有分析那目前來講其實我們現在目前最大的問題是很多的旅客的行李28吋都把它放在那個行李架裡面那這一部分我們在行李架其實我們都有貼標示在請我看到今年你們也有公告嗎就是小行李行李應該要放在座位的上方然後行李部的戰友走到城門那你們有沒有再去做宣傳跟教育民眾呢有有有這個都有在公布那效果如何"},{"start":10792.674,"end":10813.932,"text":"效果還是有限因為我看到你們今年二月份在臉書上面的宣導上面的按讚數一百四十二個留言數三則分享的次數是七次那總共的觀看次數是八千五百四十九次那面對每天都有那麼多民眾搭乘高鐵那我們這邊要怎麼來去提升再加強宣導呢"},{"start":10814.492,"end":10839.347,"text":"我們其實我們現場現場我們就有有那個現在保全嗎還有我們的列車長胡靖遠其實有看到這種情況的時候也會在會先導所以我搭乘的時候有碰過這樣的問題嗎那變成就是說他們小型行李那變成說列車的乘務員他們還要再去找旅客看就是大型行李他們已經沒有地方放了放在座位前面他們還要再告訴民眾去放到大型行李放置處可是問題就是沒有地方放"},{"start":10840.189,"end":10843.884,"text":"我們從4月1號以後我們在車上有一個就是"},{"start":10844.938,"end":10871.924,"text":"那個QR CODE就是有需要列車長服務的時候就可以透過那個QR CODE因為我還要上去你們的APP上面看嘛那你們APP上面確實是沒有在做宣導這一塊那臉書上面那明顯的這個宣傳效果也沒有很好那是不是還可以透過其他的方式所以今天向高鐵了解可以 這部分我們會再加強那再請加強教育跟宣導民眾讓民眾就是不要把小型行李一上車就放置在大型的大型行李的放置處那這邊再請我們交通部陳部長好 請陳部長"},{"start":10878.823,"end":10890.201,"text":"委員好 部長好 部長在上週3月26號行政院用會 桃園市的蘇俊斌副市長他有特別提出防狼三件之子 當前的脫掉蟑螂橫行那關於脫掉蟑螂 部長您怎麼看"},{"start":10893.904,"end":10914.078,"text":"對 報告委員這是非常不好的一個行為啦那過去在我們的這個高速公路也曾經發生過類似的問題所以這幾年我們在高速公路也好或者是省道也好我們都已經有一個比較標準化的定型化契約在執行那我認為那是很好的範例所以我們交通部也決定說要來協助所有的地方趕快來修訂這個定型化契約"},{"start":10924.284,"end":10950.436,"text":"不得記載事項嘛並希望能夠建立全國統一的收費標準部長這項工作要如何是可以完成這個不一定有辦法全國制定一個統一的標準因為每個地方的成本不一定一樣但是我們希望每個地方政府都可以訂定出適合他們當地的一個收費標準那我們昨天已經開了第一次會議就是全國各縣市大家一起來開這個會議那以我們高速公路跟這個公路總局"},{"start":10950.836,"end":10978.716,"text":"他們審到上面的這個定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項的這個範例來做一個推演我們希望各縣市都能夠定出來因為現在消費者遇到這樣的糾紛那只能去尋求消保官嘛那地方政府也遇到這樣的問題那所以蘇君布市長他特別提到嘛那包括要修改消保法然後賦予執法人員讓他們可以盡以裁罰的權利那交通部有沒有針對這個跟內政部然後還有其他相關的部會討論"},{"start":10981.151,"end":11000.962,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們目前應該還沒有跟他們來做溝通那希望可以針對這一點交通部就是跟其他部會一起進行討論因為目前各縣市的消防官他們只能獨自的去面對特殊背景的業者嘛那所以希望部長您提到就是全國統一有一個困難那是不是可以透過修法呢"},{"start":11001.781,"end":11029.234,"text":"修法的部分我們會先匯集大家地方政府大家的意見我們在昨天有開過會議了或許已經有些意見的整合那如果有需要我們交通部這邊來協助去溝通其他部會那我們也嘗試看看來做溝通因為現在就是沒有明確的收費的基準所以法院跟消防官他就沒有辦法去認定業者是否有涉及暴力所以我這邊我也提出希望交通部可以比照我們是希望是不是可以比照"},{"start":11032.281,"end":11047.276,"text":"快速道路跟高速公路的救援標準跟委員報告昨天其實我們大概都有找地方政府來做一個討論那我們也有告訴地方政府說為什麼我們沒有辦法訂一個統一的標準"},{"start":11048.797,"end":11078.107,"text":"因為每個地方的特性真的差異很大那我們訂那個應記載不得記載事項的目的呢就是希望說地方政府能夠依照他的特性來訂定不同的一個收費標準然後來做他後續執法的一個依據那另外在那個那個消保法裡面其實對於只要有違規的部分其實現在的處分就已經甚至已經可以到停業的部分了所以這個部分消保法已經有一個"},{"start":11079.207,"end":11102.159,"text":"規範可以做出目前那一段都是要求他們限期改善嘛限期改善不完成的話也是可以去做停止他的產品的一個規定就是簡單說就是他必須做停業的動作那我們也如果說他被其實在這個停業動作之前他們都已經不知道坑殺了多少民眾了嘛那我們這邊是不是那我們拖掉收費的指引呢是不是能夠落實一個定型化契約"},{"start":11103.179,"end":11128.901,"text":"因為我們應記載不得記載事項裡面就會有包括所有的項目就是說哪些可以收費的項目我們都會訂在裡面那超出這些項目的部分就不能去收費那昨天當然有一番討論大概大家有不同的意見我們還會持續收集大家的意見就項目的部分會再去應記載不得記載事項裡面再做一些訂定跟釐定那超出這些項目的部分原則上就是不能再收費"},{"start":11129.201,"end":11156.314,"text":"我們昨天召開第一次會議那我這邊後續也會持續關心那這邊也請部長重視這個問題那部長先是請教我們談到桃園國際機場那最新的雅虎民調它有顯示超過六成的民眾都支持機場開放多元計程車那在數位轉型之下呢那日本的成田機場 韓國仁川機場還有新加坡的仗義機場他們都已經提供了多元的接送選擇民眾可以用APP來叫車"},{"start":11156.974,"end":11183.076,"text":"那交通部目前規劃是116年要在松山還有小港機場事辦嘛可是旅運量最大的桃園機場呢卻沒有在事辦名單那什麼時候可以納入桃園機場是 請局長說那先跟委員報告有關這個開放事辦那因為每個機場特性不同因為譬如說松山機場它位在市區那高雄地區的話高雄機場因為它對於南部台南等等的"},{"start":11183.556,"end":11204.848,"text":"那有一些需求那桃園機場其實它本身有自立委員會那你在試班之前都有進行過評估嗎基本上我們內部有先評估一下那可是因為這是一個試班計畫所以我們是認為說是先從高雄機場來先試班那各自的評估條件可能桃機公司這邊也可以再進一步評估這個部分"},{"start":11205.208,"end":11225.548,"text":"那我們初步在做的時候 基本上法規是可以容納每個機場根據他的需求去做不同的事辦計畫那希望過去也可以納入桃園機場然後你們也去針對桃園機場來做一個評估報告好不好好 這個部分我們就再跟桃機來一起討論好 非常感謝邱若驊委員"},{"start":11231.874,"end":11246.598,"text":"好 接下來我們邀請徐富奎委員發言謝謝主席 邀請我們陳部長請陳部長觀光署陳署長陳署長"},{"start":11252.998,"end":11277.79,"text":"委員好 部長好 署長部長我想這個還是要回歸到一個主要的一個政體我們目前的去年的總預算到目前為止已經兩百多天沒有審那我想這個對整個中央也好地方也好我想是一個很大的一個行政的一個衝擊那尤其我們很多的公務同仁我覺得他們都很緊張壓力也很大"},{"start":11278.931,"end":11293.923,"text":"那觀光署今年提出了這個觀光雙輪的一個驅動方案那有提出了這個針對平日的國旅的補助我想編列了23億元左右的一個預算那我想這個是一個很好的一個措施但是呢"},{"start":11295.302,"end":11315.859,"text":"部長你看一下這個幾個項目因為這個不是一個新增的一個獨立項目是我們講是一個延續性的一個計畫但是因為總預算沒有過的關係我想若說以我們目前的規範來講這個會不會有受到打折的一個影響那對你們這個推動上面是不是好像看得到吃不到會不會有這個狀況出現"},{"start":11316.859,"end":11345.387,"text":"其實國人都相當的期待尤其是這個平日住宿的優惠國人期待那旅宿業者也期待那生日的住宿優惠國人也相當相當期待您上面所列的每一樣都是國人很期待的那我們知道這個總預算沒過我們本來原定4月就要開始啟動這個平日住宿優惠的計畫也就停擺坦白講預算沒過我們就沒有辦法支應也沒辦法做那詳細的部分我是不是請署長來回答"},{"start":11347.849,"end":11371.572,"text":"謝謝委員關心這一題這個今年提出來這個方案確實是成業界跟民眾都非常的期待那也一直在持續詢問觀光署那最主要是這樣因為這個預算是編在觀光署的單位預算裡面那這個部分是觀光業務工作計畫向下但是因為超過去年的總執行數所以還是得要經過立法院預算審議才能動之"},{"start":11372.433,"end":11399.791,"text":"所以總於說如果沒有通過可能這個都還是會打折 這個就沒辦法去打折部長署長我想我還是要提一個想法因為我們今年至少有九個連續假期那尤其我們最近就是清明連假那目前我知道恆春半島的訂房率大概已經有突破八九成當然是很好但是我認為我們不能去期待這個九個連假帶動整個國旅市場甚至對觀光業的這個"},{"start":11402.312,"end":11419.185,"text":"衝擊我想還是很大那藉由這個平日的一個國旅的優惠我想我們一定要支持這樣一個案子那這也是觀光業者的期待那總預算沒有過但是我想我們還是應該要持續看想辦法怎麼樣來做處理不准願意支持這樣的一個說法嗎"},{"start":11419.725,"end":11439.531,"text":"我們希望能夠往前推進不過錢的部分沒有錢其實很難做事這個部分委員的期待跟業者的期待我們都知道如果可以提早啟動我們也希望能夠提早啟動不過我們還是要呼籲立法院總預算要趕快過民眾的期待才有辦法真正的落實"},{"start":11440.816,"end":11467.297,"text":"那我想總預算沒有過我也很擔心我們屏東縣幾個重大的交通建設受到影響那所以我還是要請教一下部長部長第一個高鐵南延屏東的部分今年原本預定今年的六塊錯車站暫停的遷移會不會受到影響向委員報告我們目前正在趕緊加緊腳步在處理這件事情那不過預算的部分有沒有影響到這件事我是不是請局長來回答一下"},{"start":11468.739,"end":11487.854,"text":"六塊錯這個計畫我們現在優先爭取行政院來做核定如果核定的話因為去年並沒有編這個六塊錯計畫在15年的預算裡面但我們可以透過公建計畫的相關的運資來去做處理我想現在優先的目標還是要爭取核定"},{"start":11488.812,"end":11514.54,"text":"我想這個我們要加快速度啦要不然這個目前我們的規劃是2039年通車嘛如果因為這樣今年沒辦法動工暫停沒辦法動工是不是氣程要往後延這個我們非常非常的擔心啦所以我們要加快氣程那第二個就是高屏二快那我想這一次高屏二快也是預計要今年要動用的一個重要的一個交通項目部長那這個案子目前的進度我是不是請局長來回答"},{"start":11515.14,"end":11540.491,"text":"跟我們報告一下高屏二塊的部分的話目前在做稀釋那原則上大概以這個屏東段為優先那有關於這個第一個優先標的部分就是台山這個交流道的部分的話大概我們四月上旬可以把稀釋這個經費報工程會來做一個這個審議那原則上是希望就是說九月可以來這個動工但是我這邊也跟我們報告一下"},{"start":11541.031,"end":11561.553,"text":"因為高屏二塊是新鮮計畫也會可能也就是說我們也希望說後面這個預算審查要趕快做一個處理好那另外就是我們屏南鄉新最關心的屏南快速道路那我知道我們最近公務局也加快角度已經在開返品的一個說明會啦那這個期程能不能再提早因為大家都說擔心有顧問"},{"start":11563.395,"end":11586.211,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分的這個期整的話大概上次大概有跟委員報告過就是說有關於這個一階環評已經過了那現在這個就是說環境部在審二階環評這個範疇界定的部分那我們上次是有一些意見我們五月希望說二階環評這個範疇的部分能夠趕快把它審定我們後面來做"},{"start":11587.812,"end":11606.01,"text":"一個啟動那原則上後面順利的話我們是希望大概就是說期程可以這個加速縮減一年半到這兩年大概目前整個時程推出出來的部分的話大概原則上順利的話我們是希望說在一百一十七年能夠通過這個環評然後趕快提報經濟計畫報這個行政院"},{"start":11610.796,"end":11625.65,"text":"好 那我想這個也是我們這個屏南鄉親最關切的這個翻斷事工的部分我想要同步來進行好 那我想最後針對這個台鐵的部分我請一下鄭董事長部長跟署長請回 謝謝"},{"start":11631.46,"end":11658.145,"text":"董事長這個有兩個案子我想還是要麻煩董事長關注一下第一個就是去年12月我們有一位屏東的一個鄉親也是我們的同仁在花蓮車站被這個貨車擰過不治身亡那我知道董事長有特別去關心家屬那因為家屬前兩天有來找我到目前為止我們整個事故的調查跟檢查的報告他們都還沒有看到"},{"start":11660.347,"end":11680.144,"text":"這個董事長 是這個我想這是一個年輕的生命也是我們這個很多年輕的同仁在這個工作上面職場上面注視的一個案件這部分報告什麼時候可以出爐是 這個各位報告其實上那個治安署他們那個調查報告已經出來了他3月27號已經把這個檢查這個報告給我們公司那結論就是說"},{"start":11687.951,"end":11706.049,"text":"這個整個發生的事情的責任我們這個同仁嚴同仁他是沒有責任的所以在這個情況之下就是說在他這個撫恤方面我們就趕快的我們在昨天3月30號已經把這個吻送到我們全序部去所以應該"},{"start":11707.75,"end":11732.806,"text":"我們除了原來的這些我們公司的慰問金保險金都已經付給他以後這個我現在很關心的就是說這個撫恤的部分的話讓我們應該很快會有走路用因公的部分來處理是的是的是的那董事長我還是要了解一下那針對事故發生我們相關的檢討裡面我們的人員的部分跟現場的作業的部分有沒有什麼樣的問題是需要改善的"},{"start":11733.326,"end":11754.608,"text":"是的,我們針對一些可能的風險,因為他像這位同仁,他是因為很不幸,就是他在吊車的過程裡面,在一個背帶,被一些司機的支架勾到,最後就吊在地上,像這個的話,我們公司已經做了一個修正的安排。"},{"start":11756.009,"end":11779.057,"text":"我想這個我們的家長他其實來跟我談這個事情的時候他並不是要責怪我們的同仁他只是希望董事長我要轉達他的心聲給董事長知道他希望這樣的憾事不要再發生不要再有同仁因為這樣的現場事故有一個年輕的生命就沒有了那所以我想前幾次的委員會我有特別跟董事長提到說"},{"start":11780.317,"end":11798.698,"text":"現在我們這個人力短缺跟薪資結構已經比不上其他的國營事業我想董事長這是很嚴重的問題我們的年輕的同仁不願意待在台鐵那未來連甚至很多我們屏東的鄉親現在分化在東部的、北部的都調步回來這是怎麼安居樂業?董事長這個問題到底有檢討嗎?"},{"start":11802.326,"end":11829.703,"text":"確實啦這個人力的問題是在台鐵也是一樣遭遇到這個問題尤其在這個吊車的事情這個又複雜度比較高所以有很多但是公司能夠做的就是我們除了改善整個環境包括我們檢討我們SOP譬如說我們如果是車動人就不動這樣的一個要求我們會落實那減少這樣的一個不幸的事情發生好"},{"start":11830.583,"end":11857.488,"text":"最後一個問題我想我要幫我們的這個長輩來請命一下這個我之前有跟你提過我們現在屏東縣的敬老卡我們有每個月一千塊的額度那我們的鄉親他有的時候要去坐火車去高雄台南甚至去東部他們現在只能不能坐對號的一個車子只能說刷那個路卡但是非常非常的不方便"},{"start":11858.688,"end":11882.916,"text":"我認為這是對你們來講是一個很大的一個商機所以我有請你們研究結果你們跟我說回應的部分是說更改這個相關的設備總共要花六千兩百萬是的而且你們是希望地方政府來分攤這起來很不得力啦甚至你們在賺錢這樣叫地方政府來分攤很不得力董事長我覺得花六千兩百萬可以帶給台鐵幾百億的商機為什麼你不做這部分有什麼困難"},{"start":11887.039,"end":11902.107,"text":"這個跟委員報告確實因為改這個系統而且是所有的公司所有地方政府他可能他的這個社福卡跟台鐵要連接的話其實系統都要改所以這一部分的話這個發射這個錢"},{"start":11903.948,"end":11927.42,"text":"那我們希望說呢 這個當然還是要地方政府這邊因為我們的冰湯的大眾交通工具還是不普及所以這部分還是要拜託一下來客錄一下 好不好 謝謝我們還是希望說這個財源如果有問題有的話我們也會全力來配合辦理啦謝謝 謝謝委員執教謝謝台鐵 我們謝謝徐副委員接下來我們邀請許智傑委員發言"},{"start":11938.717,"end":11946.234,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們請部長跟公路局長請陳部長請公路局局長"},{"start":11950.256,"end":11973.785,"text":"委員好部長好那個台86這個我有跟局長討論過了啦那就是說這整個我們的建設其實是非常的重要所以需要部長再給我們侃奉一下那就是說我們高雄東高雄就是往台南這邊以前都是走縣道"},{"start":11975.365,"end":11996.465,"text":"就是市道 現在是182那現在就是說我們需要說如果說台86可以銜接上的話對於東高雄從內門往台南這樣子的互動事實上非常的有幫助所以現在的進度就是說是不是請部長跟局長公開給我們砍碰一下預計"},{"start":12000.148,"end":12021.615,"text":"2028開始動工2034可以完工嗎這個部分是不是請那個局長先說明一下首先我跟委員報告一下就是說這個台86前面一段大概就是說跨過台10舊甲連接這個國道3號剛剛委員講的是後半段就是說這個在過去跟這個182然後到這個屏東這個內門這個地方"},{"start":12026.977,"end":12046.233,"text":"那這個案子目前這個中規已經這個定案了那目前是在做這個環評的審查那環評審查的部分上次有一些意見我們是希望說在6月可以通過這一個環評那6月通過環評我們希望這一個就是說這一個臨底可以提報這一個"},{"start":12047.734,"end":12064.447,"text":"整個10層的規劃的話上次大概也跟委員這個報告大概前面一段因為前面一段那個現在建設計畫是在院裡面待這個核定那那個部分的預估完工時間是121年那後半段這個部分的話預計完工時間是122年"},{"start":12067.881,"end":12091.181,"text":"122年所以還有7年所以跟部長報告一下就是其實東高雄我一直在推動東高雄的觀光跟交通跟醫療的提升那就是說東高雄現在像我們內門現在那邊有個動物學校其實那個是那個"},{"start":12092.826,"end":12116.428,"text":"場景式的觀察而不是只是去看動物園它是去體驗所以東高雄包括我們的假日就是包括內門動物學校包括祁山老街包括美濃客家文化甚至再到裡面茂林紫斑蝶等等相關的寶萊的溫泉那這些其實可以做一個整體的套裝的規劃"},{"start":12117.849,"end":12131.346,"text":"那當然這個我們也有跟公共署在要求說怎麼樣有機會把茂林國家風水區延伸到整個東高雄那當然現在比較重要的就是說交通要先通暢就是說在這個台88"},{"start":12132.968,"end":12157.257,"text":"這一條線其實對東高雄的發展非常的重要所以剛剛局長也有跟大家報告過也請部長能夠大力支持好 我們全力推動 速度加快那另外就是說包括這個有沒有機會台灣好險因為東高雄的觀光事實上它的交通真的是比較不容易比如說你如果要去寶萊的話可能你要到旗山轉運站"},{"start":12158.477,"end":12175.797,"text":"再轉六龜再轉寶來那像這個一個溫泉特區如果有機會我們來開發的話就是說能夠讓這個交通先行才有辦法所以是不是請部長也指示署長跟局長重視我們這邊的交通跟觀光"},{"start":12176.337,"end":12198.675,"text":"是我們針對整體的交通除了硬體建設之外您剛剛所提到的公共運輸的部分我們應該要來關注那台灣好行的路線或許我們可以檢討一下如果真的有這樣子的觀光的資源在那個地方我們也希望說公共運輸可以到達我想這個是雞生蛋生雞的問題就是說目前就是說當然他一直覺得還有提升的空間"},{"start":12199.836,"end":12219.538,"text":"那當然就是在地的整個設施要去加強之外,其實交通就是一個非常重要的路線所以是不是有機會就是說我們的台86之外,台灣好行這邊公路局可以先協助台灣好行應該是公共公署這邊我們請公共公署這邊來協助"},{"start":12223.959,"end":12246.595,"text":"謝謝委員提問 上次我們也有討論到這件事情確實在交通的部分 確實是能讓大家到的景點加上東高雄那相關的觀光資源也非常的豐富那這個部分我們現在是請貿管處這邊一起在來提出申請跟所有相關的評估跟怎麼去做串聯像以上先生的報告之前我提到有沒有可能把貿聯國際貨幣區把東高雄通通納入"},{"start":12250.209,"end":12265.244,"text":"這個上次因為委員一直很關心這個項目對不對那我們說這件事情要再跟高雄市政府還有屏東縣政府一起討論要由地方政府提出來然後這個才能進入到我們的程序裡面來"},{"start":12266.125,"end":12294.783,"text":"所以地方政府先提你們是後面地方政府要先提OK好那我再跟地方溝通一下謝謝好那這個東高雄就拜託那個署長跟局長多幫忙部長就盡量點頭就好好這個東高雄的支持很重要好那再來就是那個我們的那個交通交易園區這個也公路局也不簡單了事實上台灣現在設了兩個地方嘛"},{"start":12296.727,"end":12306.348,"text":"北台灣在桃園那南台灣是在高雄我們鳳山建立所的所在地那這個已經做好了嘛還沒有啟用"},{"start":12307.528,"end":12331.967,"text":"是的 原則上大概做好了那之前高雄區監獄所是試營運那最近大概我去看我跟我們曾經是有去看了一次那裡面有一些標線可能要再做一個調整那目前我是請局裡面的教官組再幫忙做一個調整那有些東西有這個脫落的部分我們重新再做一個處理完之後那我想"},{"start":12332.747,"end":12349.397,"text":"這個我們再規劃一個這個時間然後這個邀請委員一起來做這個邀請部長一起來不是 正式啟用一定會跟委員報告邀請委員的那個一起來參與我想在這個之前我希望說很多配套交通部可能也必須要思考"},{"start":12350.357,"end":12377.017,"text":"因為這個部分其實日本的教育你看日本的兒童過馬路都會舉手部長知道嗎是 我知道這個已經養成習慣你看台灣人小朋友過馬路有沒有都舉手比較沒有現在開始有一些小朋友會舉手所以這個就是從其實這個交通安全其實教育是從小慢慢的小時候走路再來"},{"start":12378.887,"end":12405.198,"text":"讀國中可能騎腳踏車吧再來騎摩托車這個其實你從小就培養這樣子一個教育的觀念交通教育的觀念這個對於整體這個是後面長久會影響的所以我是覺得我們這個交通公園是不是交通部有跟教育部有結合去思考一些怎麼樣去推動兒童交通教育而不是說這個設施做好了如果沒有跟教育部結合有可能去的人還是不多"},{"start":12407.456,"end":12434.158,"text":"跟我也報告一下目前大概就是因為美國交通公園所在還是有地域性這一個可及的一個課題所以目前大概就是說由我們在地比如說像在桃園建立站的部分的話大概是新竹所跟大桃園地區的一個幼稚園教學學校教學來相結合那目前在這個高雄區建立所的這個部分的話也是跟高雄大高雄地區來做這個部分的一個結合"},{"start":12434.918,"end":12454.788,"text":"那剛剛委員所提到的我想局裡面這邊再來跟教育部相關單位就是說有一些中央比較一致性的原則的一個部分的話我們跟教育部再來做一個這個所以你們還沒跟教育部接觸像委員報告以桃園為案例我們不是跟教育部這邊來做接觸跟合作是跟地方的教育局"},{"start":12455.348,"end":12470.156,"text":"那地方的教育局他們就會找在地的例如說小學或者是幼兒園一起來這個園區裡面做交通案例所以現在有跟高雄市教育局聯絡了嗎那高雄的部分我們如果正式要啟動的時候也會跟地方的教育局來做合作那目前我看已經試辦了15場嘛要辦15場這15場應該也是有跟他們做聯繫"},{"start":12475.146,"end":12490.943,"text":"所以我是提醒就是我們交通部就是公務局這個要跟教育單位交通甚至市府也有交通局就是市政府的相關單位我們要動就一起動這樣子才會把那個效果發揮到最高好謝謝最後那個"},{"start":12498.529,"end":12520.783,"text":"陰水法 陰水法部長應該了解啦這個部分那個香港局也很幫忙就是說要發展我們地方高雄的遊艇觀光事實上這個也是在地的需求所以就是我們提出這個遊艇觀光就是飲水一千噸以下事實上你不用讓這個遊艇 事實上它吃水很淺啦"},{"start":12521.504,"end":12529.803,"text":"所以這個部分我想我們也希望說交通部可以支持那航港局在這個交通安全的維護上有沒有什麼問題"},{"start":12532.552,"end":12561.111,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們會支持一千噸以下的這個遊艇外極遊艇不需要強制飲水這個部分我們會支持OK那這個就是希望說香港局跟交通部能夠盡力協助是好沒問題那包括那個安全的我也很重要可能要相關的配套要把它想好好OK好謝謝我們謝謝徐志傑委員好接下來我們要請洪育翔委員發言"},{"start":12573.615,"end":12579.627,"text":"好 主席好我們有請這個交通部陳部長觀光署陳署長陳署長"},{"start":12586.789,"end":12610.044,"text":"好兩位好我覺得因為問題很多所以我大概只挑一個因為我在交通部在以前林佳龍部長的時候我也擔任過你們運營所的這些MARS的一個審查的委員是智慧觀光也協助規劃過所以我覺得這個問題還是要跟你們提一下這樣子"},{"start":12611.526,"end":12634.526,"text":"我們賴總統函出這個觀光的國家對2030年的目標是產值一兆那國發計畫列入目標是9000億這個早上我已經也罵過國發會常常每次收各部會的報告那個資料都不sync都不一致所以這個請你們再跟他溝通調成是一致那我的問題就是說"},{"start":12636.047,"end":12651.309,"text":"因為從以前我們在做觀光的時候其實我怕的就是我們的基礎到底是不是這個底盤是不是有打好那我們先來看一個東西就是說我翻了你們的一個報告那如果是像你們這樣喊的Joyce"},{"start":12653.431,"end":12678.304,"text":"2030就是邁向2030這樣的方案那基本上我現在在那個報告裡頭也許你們有啦我會後提供也可以就是我看不到分年的目標然後你一年四季季度的追蹤那這個東西如果我達不到目標到底是哪一個部會你要去負責那這個東西我相信你們有但是可能我報告看不到"},{"start":12679.289,"end":12708.529,"text":"因為以前我們在弄計畫的時候你們交通部或是這些的外面我們這些省長在問的就是你每一次都講當年度但是你還是要告訴我每一年每一年的Milestone是多少這個有應該有吧這個有那你再會後提供好沒問題另外呢我想要再問一個就是右邊這裡缺公開儀表板這裡因為在我們之前做的時候像你們報告有寫觀光綜合的管理平台我就問部長"},{"start":12709.469,"end":12715.419,"text":"你手上的手機APP有沒有這個東西或者是你們講的PWS可不可以看得到這樣子的數據"},{"start":12717.498,"end":12742.448,"text":"向委員報告您所說的這個公開儀表板我也希望能夠建置我也覺得這個相當的重要你們已經有在建置很久了對但是我認為現在對民眾來講或者是說對於想要知道資料跟資訊的用者來講使用者來講其實是不便利的戰情儀表板這個概念因為你內部一定要有所以我達到這個目標為什麼我五年前就講過我們內部已經有了"},{"start":12744.449,"end":12760.246,"text":"對但是我要知道手掌手上有沒有因為那時候也是觀光區上面也是這些問題他們固定時間都會提供給我做參考不要啦我們現在都AI行動內閣了可以嗎這五年前我就提出來了所以委員是希望我們一定要在手機上看"},{"start":12760.808,"end":12782.967,"text":"手機平板都可以啊你隨時都可以看到比如說你現在去訪問記者訪問你的時候現在觀光區是多少其實大部分提供給我都是用檔案沒有錯都是用檔案的方式你那麼年輕可以啦行動內閣好不好來再來的話我為什麼比較沒有信心的原因就是說因為這個目標一路一路下修這個是指我們的國際的旅客人數來談那"},{"start":12784.856,"end":12803.768,"text":"為什麼這個東西我這樣講因為你們現在花在很多的品牌的行銷海外推廣的活動花了多少預算可能我這邊報告也沒有看到但是我比較關心的就是說你這個預算算下去的時候到底那個轉換率以及我增加旅客的成本是多少"},{"start":12804.528,"end":12827.767,"text":"我覺得這個要去做ROI的一個分析啊不然的話我只看到人次人次然後其實我就一直達不到然後你人來了停留多少多少產值那我是不是可以達到這一個2030年造園的目標那我這樣才有辦法對的回來所以我是覺得在整個計畫執行的結構上可能要再去清楚一點然後另外是一個比較結構性的問題就是說"},{"start":12829.968,"end":12848.898,"text":"我們民眾都喜歡出國就不喜歡待在國旅我覺得這個問題很多我會後也可以提供給你們做一些參考因為我們都是希望他能夠就是現在人民就是這樣子用腳投票給你看他就是想要出去了然後他也不想要待在國旅我覺得這也不是房價的問題"},{"start":12849.798,"end":12877.568,"text":"他可能包含你烘台產品高度重複體驗感低甚至接駁像我們很多剛剛在委員講的海外好行我也是常常K他們對不對你有些東西的使用率人次高或不高等等當然有些是你要貼錢補貼去做但是我覺得那個ROI跟那個癥結點因為這都是十幾年將近應該有十年了所以我一直覺得說這個東西如果你還是用舊的做法去做的話這個會比較不好"},{"start":12878.959,"end":12904.692,"text":"那最後啦我因為時間的關係我再跟各位說明一下就是我大概希望是一個月內來告訴我就說整個市場的飲客的KPI包含你的旅客數停留的天數消費重遊率飲客的成本然後你們現在呢在報告裡面也做了一些台灣100亮點的這些的工程等等但是我覺得你不要只看完工率"},{"start":12905.768,"end":12922.774,"text":"就不要只看那個什麼使用人士其實我要知道說你這樣的營收到底有沒有達到這樣的倍增的目標那另外一個也是跟許志傑委員一樣有一些的觀光好行的這些的檢討要去改善一下尤其是我們外籍旅客之前我一直在講本國旅客說實在的"},{"start":12924.235,"end":12952.555,"text":"他搞不好也不會想要去抓 可能開車或幹嘛但是外籍旅客這個接駁 跟你的台灣Pass以前我們是要做MAS的系統整個整合起來那我是希望 就一個角度啦也是跟你們這樣子溝通一下 好不好好 謝謝委員您所關心的這些都很重要 我們陸續來做那也會提供資料給您 謝謝好 非常感謝洪玉祥委員好 接下來我們邀請鄭天才委員發言"},{"start":12971.093,"end":12992.785,"text":"主席有請部長台鐵部長好所有的官員好這個台鐵大霧點在3月27號這張照片是我在台鐵"},{"start":12994.509,"end":13009.758,"text":"等候的火車的時候照的照片所以你看如果我們從這張照片這個最晚要延遲到240分鐘延遲就從這張照片240分鐘有195分鐘130分鐘然後這張也是我在現場拍的"},{"start":13020.133,"end":13039.793,"text":"這個PUMA延遲130分鐘,然後致強號160分鐘,這個真的是非常非常的久然後你們的網路上其實沒有看到說會延誤,可以不用那麼早去"},{"start":13041.734,"end":13068.036,"text":"所以這個都是要去檢討的所以委員說的如果說網路上沒有的話這個我們確實應該檢討第一時間所有的訊息應該讓所有的旅客能夠通透透過各種管道都必須通透這個當然你們也提到了這個道歉整個因為電力線的故障物點總共加起來你們是寫超過兩萬分鐘這個部分所以一定要去"},{"start":13069.447,"end":13072.596,"text":"檢討然後你們提了相關的改善措施因為時間的關係"},{"start":13074.925,"end":13098.832,"text":"這個部分再請台鐵這邊能夠提供素面的很簡單的跟委員報告這個避免這個大霧點我們就是在行控中心這個硬幣中心我們會成立一個專責的單位然後把我們所謂的班次啊能夠重新的編排因為我們在單線雙向的時候我們的容量是受限制"},{"start":13099.332,"end":13123.045,"text":"所以我們可能會在某一個時間點裡面就是把他以前的班次取消然後看客人能夠搭我們譬如說都要坐我們的車廂的話我們就讓他可以自由坐上去但是往後的部分的話就會縮短他的時間所以我們這樣的一個方向"},{"start":13124.306,"end":13128.151,"text":"以後我們會來錄音另外就是說在這個時間點裡面我們有一組人專門來說會預估延後多少時間那麼我會把這時間送到各個車站送到各個列車長有列車長來告訴我們的旅客"},{"start":13140.225,"end":13164.648,"text":"有車站動作告示來讓旅客知道同時我們在內部的網站裡面也應該要拖播這樣的一個資訊讓所有搭乘台鐵的旅客他有一個知道這樣的delay的情況好 這個最主要早上就發生了嘛 對不對早上上班族就影響了結果我是"},{"start":13166.428,"end":13187.12,"text":"晚上我是六點左右到了台北車站才知道原來是我知道早上就有誤我沒有想到會那麼久啦我沒想到會那麼久去修這些那些這個都是要去加強檢討改進的部分好這個接下來就"},{"start":13188.305,"end":13216.467,"text":"台鐵漁花東這個也就是零三零四零三一百一十三年零四零三大地震造成的這個部分行政院在今年的三月十六號合定終於合定77.99億元接下來就是要請這個交通部 鐵道局 台鐵這個部分要優先針對這個河仁道"},{"start":13218.028,"end":13241.81,"text":"從德這一段因為這階段會涉及到不只是鐵路也會涉及到這個公路台九這個蘇花公路的那個部分所以這個部分優先去處理可以嗎報告委員這個部分我會優先處理不過現在最大的問題會是在立法院的總預算還沒審議通過所以我們沒有錢可以做"},{"start":13244.448,"end":13258.275,"text":"這個新新計畫 這個算新增新新計畫你們只要提送過來部長不要用這樣的用詞啦按照預算法54條新新計畫或者是新增 何況這是新新計畫嘛"},{"start":13268.749,"end":13284.602,"text":"第一個你們只要報來立法院絕對會同意何況立法院已經主動主動喔行政院送來啊我們主動立法院已經主動718億718億的主動裡面沒有包含這一項對你們還要送來啊為什麼主動沒有包含這一項"},{"start":13290.424,"end":13313.711,"text":"因為這個今年3月16號才核定當然沒有嘛你當然沒有列入115年度的預算嘛部長我這個30年的公務員我們不要用這個樣的那個我們去解決問題解決問題趕快送來啊 好不好好 我們謝謝鄭天才委員"},{"start":13315.145,"end":13316.266,"text":"主席好 有請部長跟觀光署陳署長陳部長還有陳署長是"},{"start":13340.079,"end":13355.619,"text":"我今天來質詢主要是針對3月16號我們有一個新的方案就是9000萬的新旅遊的補助方案我想現在對於旅遊的促進其實我覺得還是有一定程度的幫助"},{"start":13357.16,"end":13382.871,"text":"只是因為前一陣子我們看到我們的一些觀光景點發生一些狀況我想在座大家比較清楚的就是那時候在我們南投發生的遊園車的部分那更早的部分在花蓮鯉魚潭這邊也有一些天鵝船的部分因為我過去在學校其實都做安全跟災害預防的研究所以我是想問的是說因為這個補助其實振興旅遊產業比較多"},{"start":13386.252,"end":13410.943,"text":"是不是可以把這個所謂的安全的改善這些安全的品質或者是一些災害的預防放在這個補助的方案裡面因為現在看起來好像教育訓練什麼好像效果比較多一點報告委員您所提的那個九千萬的部分它主要是針對旅行社那因為針對旅行社所以這個可能就是人員的教育還有它的數位化還有它永續的部分數位轉型跟永續的部分作為重點"},{"start":13411.863,"end":13426.059,"text":"那您在提的這個安全的部分不一定會放在這個計畫裡面但是安全確實很重要我們是不是請觀光署可以的話我們想辦法用其他的方面來做安全的這個檢討跟安全的協助跟補助"},{"start":13426.94,"end":13451.232,"text":"我想這個大家每次看到這樣的消息其實大家都是非常快樂的出遊其實大家都非常的不捨所以希望不只是這個九千萬希望有其他 剛剛部長說有其他的方式可以增進這些旅遊業者他這些的觀念我想教育訓練裡面也可以放到一些這些所謂的強化這些知能那另外就是其實想到這個事就想到那個日月潭的那個電動船的部分"},{"start":13452.112,"end":13466.461,"text":"那個我們這邊也去查了一些資料好像那個我們有做了一些那個KPI嘛好像目前的算還有一些距離不曉得署長那邊的看法是怎麼樣就是有關日月潭的電動船的部分這個部分補助是在航港局目前航港局想來回答好不好"},{"start":13468.17,"end":13496.748,"text":"我想為了營造一個低碳的旅遊環境我想我們跟光屬合作現在我們新推出了全國內水電動化的一個計畫這裡面有6個水域總共有57艘的業者要來參與我們這個計畫我們會給予大概49%這樣的補助日月潭的部分總共有32艘"},{"start":13497.588,"end":13510.667,"text":"好像要到115馬上就要到了我們目前計畫部裡面已經抱怨了那奉合之後我們就會來推動那日月潭的部分有32艘32艘是佔他們目前這個營運"},{"start":13512.93,"end":13527.246,"text":"大概60幾艘的將近半數所以也就是說大概118年左右118、119左右將近熱潭有半數的載客船舶它是以電動化的方式來營運的"},{"start":13529.087,"end":13540.495,"text":"我今天提這個基本上兩個其實是同樣的概念不管是安全 健康 或者是永續我想現在都是我們國家追求的目標所以我這邊有幾個重點也請部長能夠採納就是說"},{"start":13544.918,"end":13562.809,"text":"基本上我認為我們觀光產業除了我們要振興它提升它的一些發展之外其實建立一套好的管理制度導入一些安全預防災害的概念我覺得這個也蠻重要的也就是說我們過去在管理一些產業的時候常常會建立一些燈號"},{"start":13564.15,"end":13591.334,"text":"那把這個風險高的這些產業或是這些事業單位把它標出來我希望公關也慢慢可以做這樣的事情尤其他們最近如果發現一些最重大的這些這個公關安全的事情是不是可以把它標註出來然後日後嚴格的來做一些管考那當然我剛剛前面就說了我希望有一些經費上可以挹注在這個提升安全跟這個危害預防的這個部分不知道部長"},{"start":13591.974,"end":13615.629,"text":"是不是可以進一步有一些接下來不管等一下回答或是接下來給我們一些你們那邊的想法好不好是 感謝委員的關心 安全確實是相當重要尤其我們最近社會有看到一些觀光的過程當中發生了一些安全疑慮的問題那這個部分我們也請觀光署把這個列為一個很重要的項目我們來做這個更大的關注跟更大的協助"},{"start":13616.329,"end":13633.315,"text":"是 所以剛剛說那個就是我們九千萬裡面的那個有一部分是種教育訓練我剛剛說了是不是可以在教育訓練的那個項目對 就有一些這種項目因為通常會有一個pool嘛那個有一些這個課程的名稱希望有把一些安全"},{"start":13634.475,"end":13635.495,"text":"接下來我們邀請林月琴委員發言"},{"start":13667.084,"end":13669.605,"text":"李玉壇八歲南投溺斃事件在2023年基隆市大武倫沙灘一天就溺斃了"},{"start":13691.295,"end":13711.142,"text":"三人事件 那就看到基隆市政府曾就跟觀光署發生了沙灘跟水域管理範圍的一個爭議紅色警戒線事實上是市政府畫的可是又緊鄰我們的北關處的管轄範圍導致對於到底誰要對這個管理產生模糊的地帶"},{"start":13712.142,"end":13740.305,"text":"到了2026年就今年度我們的花蓮女儀壇年初三發生了8歲男童的逆避事件又同樣發生同樣的爭議地方說它僅負責營業許可管理機關是中央的縱管處並非地方政府因此縣府沒有任何法律義務或權限去訂定相關的一些營業管理的條例可是縱管處又說縣市政府應該去訂定來作為管理當地的一個業者的法律依據"},{"start":13741.706,"end":13763.056,"text":"部長 出事之後我們看到的標準公式就是中央說歸地方管 地方說中央管是這樣嗎部長一條人命來不及長大孩子就這樣走了部長我想TIT區的結果就是把風險提給無辜的受害人這大不是我們熱見的所以我們希望一起共同來去重視這個課題那部長所以請看這張圖花蓮縣政府在114年6月12號就廢止了相關管理程序"},{"start":13771.339,"end":13796.285,"text":"從廢止到今年初發生意外那整整半年的時間呢我們的鯉魚潭水域竟然處在一個法律跟檢查完全真空的狀態縱管處聲稱說拿不到安檢的一個資料顯然過去在這段時間這些天天載客的天鵝船動力船根本長期沒有依程序進行安檢在國家風景區內竟然允許完全沒有安檢記錄的船隻違規營運"},{"start":13798.846,"end":13817.881,"text":"所以部長請問一下為什麼會發生這種狀況是 報告委員確實發生不幸的事情我們希望風險能夠再降低就是說看到了問題我們希望能夠解決問題那確實過去這段時間有一些法令上不周全或者是該執行而未執行的事情我們希望未來不要來發生"},{"start":13818.922,"end":13829.957,"text":"那這個部分其實觀光署已經有跟這個花蓮縣政府有開會討論過大概有一些共識那未來也會想辦法該列管的部分要列管我是不是請署長先來回答一下好不好"},{"start":13831.863,"end":13859.913,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個議題今年2月19號的那個事情真的是很遺憾因為發展台灣的觀光基本上是要中央跟地方政府共同合作所以我們這段時間檢討下來確實是彼此都有可能我覺得在法令上面有一些疑慮的地方所以這段時間我們也找了華麗縣政府共同討論彼此如何完善因為遊客的安全是最重要的事"},{"start":13860.713,"end":13882.4,"text":"對 可是不是只有花蓮這樣我想剛剛也講基隆 花蓮都這樣所以我說部長在管理方面是不是因為管理方面不能僅依照我們的發展觀光條例的第36條公告說哪裡不能玩例如公告特定的活動時間劃定我們禁止進入的危險區或是針對違規的遊客要怎麼"},{"start":13884.501,"end":13909.714,"text":"進行行政裁罰可是對於並沒有辦法這些都沒有辦法去做到說那你的輔具到底做安全管理怎麼去做是依據我們的輔具及人員操作的安全注意事項嗎位階這麼低這法律效果僅有命令位階沒有強制力也沒有相關法則所以部長對於這件事情針對於輔具是否有其他的法律管理或依據現行法律的配套措施是什麼"},{"start":13910.374,"end":13930.968,"text":"報告委員這個其實在各個地方的自治條例裡面可以去訂這個東西那我們也經過觀光署的關注我們全國的各個水上的有遊玩的領域我們都做檢討那法令不足的部分我們現在民航局也有介入幫忙協助也是督導地方政府必須要制定這樣子的自治條例"},{"start":13931.348,"end":13945.985,"text":"接下來會去置地嗎 為什麼我這樣講 你看這一份我們的航港局頒布的服務器具及人員操作安全注意事項那地方政府並得是需要予以納管 是需要 可是今天"},{"start":13946.505,"end":13975.136,"text":"這些符具到處都是的話你怎麼說是需要那他如果覺得沒需要就不用管理嗎這也就是說地方政府呢可以制定相關的安全規範就讓他們自己是需要所以部長再看右邊這張各縣市對照表新北南投宜蘭都定有自治條例或者是管理辦法為什麼花蓮嘉義桃園等13個縣市可以沒有而造成了有地方有罰則有的地方完全沒有安全檢查案"},{"start":13975.476,"end":13985.603,"text":"也不會有罰則的狀況發生所以部長我要請問的是德事需要這四個字是不是就是地方政府可以繼續不作為報告委員這個有分動力扶具跟非動力扶具非動力扶具我們比較有勸導也希望但是有動力扶具的部分這個危險性相對高一點我們"},{"start":13995.769,"end":14016.369,"text":"會比較強制的作為希望能夠要求他們趕快來制定那這個部分局長可以再補充一下因為時間關係我最後就是請你們盡速研擬相關法律不足的部分然後希望中央能夠訂定輔具跟動力小船的相關處罰規定而不是當發生事情的時候還是各推各的"},{"start":14017.029,"end":14031.52,"text":"這是人命 秦部長一定要重視這個問題 趕快研議不過拜託回去研議的時候 也希望找民間團體一起討論非常感謝林月琴委員我們休息十分鐘"},{"start":14048.747,"end":14073.045,"text":"嗯嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":14078.268,"end":14100.06,"text":"對,對,對"},{"start":14100.32,"end":14105.943,"text":"它現在是從市區客院然後遊覽停車的部分確實越來越多遊覽停車的部分確實越來越多"},{"start":14127.512,"end":14128.793,"text":"鸡腿"},{"start":14147.839,"end":14152.02,"text":"這裏有個大廈,有個大廈"},{"start":14173.531,"end":14174.932,"text":"這裏有個小小的廟宇"},{"start":14205.752,"end":14214.757,"text":"鲍鱼鱼"},{"start":14229.605,"end":14233.547,"text":"嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":14252.401,"end":14253.832,"text":"鸡腿"},{"start":14259.723,"end":14264.547,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的餐廳,例如餐廳餐廳,餐廳餐廳,餐廳餐廳,餐廳餐廳"},{"start":14288.084,"end":14288.785,"text":"嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":14315.046,"end":14317.808,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的食物"},{"start":14341.978,"end":14348.101,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的餐廳"},{"start":14377.316,"end":14382.661,"text":"沙漠中央公園"},{"start":14389.768,"end":14391.729,"text":"這裏是一間餐廳"},{"start":14413.588,"end":14415.429,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳的名稱是"},{"start":14443.096,"end":14443.276,"text":"鲍鱼"},{"start":14469.867,"end":14470.648,"text":"謝謝大家,下次見"},{"start":14489.935,"end":14516.48,"text":"四月七号四月七号四月七号四月七号四月七号"},{"start":14520.084,"end":14522.268,"text":"鸡蛋糕"},{"start":14528.742,"end":14533.844,"text":"這裏有個大廈,大廈的名字叫做大廈"},{"start":14553.127,"end":14561.073,"text":"我一天罷了一天"},{"start":14584.059,"end":14584.944,"text":"OK OK OK"},{"start":14600.143,"end":14617.008,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳是一間餐廳"},{"start":14631.551,"end":14634.013,"text":"中文字幕志愿者 杨洁"},{"start":14655.483,"end":14666.048,"text":"山谷群架不少好,回來了"},{"start":14693.19,"end":14697.774,"text":"好 我們繼續開會好 接下來我們邀請林楚英"},{"start":14698.84,"end":14713.21,"text":"林柱英林柱英委員不在蔡春秋蔡春秋蔡春秋委員不在王美惠王美惠王美惠委員不在好接下來我們邀請李坤正委員發言好謝謝主席那我們請陳部長請陳部長"},{"start":14731.043,"end":14749.728,"text":"來部長辛苦了那先問一下這個地方的一個建設的問題這個武泰輕軌的這一個輕軌的這條路線它雖然是叫武泰輕軌其實它的起點站是在三重啦是從三重最後是到這個輕軌然後在三重還可以再跟我們這一個蘆洲縣還有個交接"},{"start":14751.809,"end":14774.487,"text":"然後呢 這個目前它的進度是今年的3月4號環境部的這個環評委員會已經通過了那等於是說 可行性研究已經核定了然後呢 都市計畫變更呢 也有這個公展的座談然後呢 環境部的這個環評的法律程序已經完成了那接下來呢 應該就是要等到這個交通部的這個綜合規劃報告嘛"},{"start":14776.368,"end":14792.261,"text":"那我看這個新北市好像今天捷運局也有過來嘛那這個新北市的捷運局有送了這個綜合規劃報告給我們交通部在2025年的12月第四次提送那我想請問一下那有關於五代輕軌的這個最新的進度"},{"start":14794.402,"end":14817.728,"text":"報告委員目前已經在我們鐵道局在審議當中那我們1月16號已經喊請各相關單位大家一起來審查因為這不是只有在鐵道局裡面審查各相關單位那我們等他們的資料彙整回來之後就應該會有一些結論因為已經他提了4次了嘛是不是那就表示之前有被你們退了退了3次不斷在修正不斷在修正"},{"start":14818.328,"end":14823.771,"text":"通常這個因為這一關就是綜合規劃評估那這一關大概你們這個綜合規劃報告通常會審查多久的時間我是不是請局長來回答"},{"start":14831.095,"end":14857.678,"text":"根本報告這個其實沒有一定的期程其實要看計畫的成熟度那這個案子我想送進來的話我們過去有一些相關議題的處理包括跟高速公路之間的落墩問題還有工程經費的檢討等等我們對於這個案子的了解是應該這一次相關單位的審查意見回來如果可以收斂的話我們會簽給交通部建議召開捷運的審查委員會"},{"start":14859.351,"end":14878.343,"text":"那所以你認為現在最大的問題有在哪裡嗎那新北市有提出合理的說明了嗎過去主要的問題是跟高速公路之間的一個工程界面那這個問題我的了解是已經有收斂就高工局的意見應該是可以得到高工局的認可那經費的部分"},{"start":14879.144,"end":14879.544,"text":"總經費是多少"},{"start":14893.717,"end":14912.327,"text":"那中央跟地方目前的總經費是513.96億那中央跟地方的負擔新北市政府的估算是中央要負擔183新北市政府負擔330那如果說這兩個問題能解決這個綜合雇要報告就比較容易過關"},{"start":14914.16,"end":14932.447,"text":"我想這個我們會再往下一個程序來走但是因為現在院裡面有給我們一些新的指示也就是希望我們全面檢討捷運建設的補助要點的相關規定那我不是很有把握對於這樣的一個議題是不是因為它是一個通案性的原則性的問題"},{"start":14933.487,"end":14946.742,"text":"那在這個個案上面會不會對於進度上面產生一些干擾我想可能我們要看後面我想如果是這個錢經費的問題的話那當然中央跟地方要去談因為現在財務法通過之後的確地方經費比較"},{"start":14948.424,"end":14975.794,"text":"分配比例會不一樣對啊那這個是可以調整但是我還是希望說不要因為這個經費卡住因為這個計畫是好的正確的話還是盡快能夠讓他通過那經費問題當然還可以跟那個新北市政府在談不過你講這也不是個案全盤台灣通案來處理好我是希望說能夠盡量把這個五太經軌能夠讓他完成我們來努力因為完成之後還要七年依照委員的要求我們來加速謝謝介入部長"},{"start":14976.874,"end":14992.18,"text":"時間到了 還有 再問一下我們這個親民的這個的這個交通的規劃那請教一下部長 你們有請這個國道的這個客運業者來配合這提出了蠻多的優惠86條路線有6折 TPAS2.0最高40"},{"start":14996.92,"end":15015.365,"text":"四二折然後加十小時的這個轉成免費然後提供了這個一百二十二萬個座位但是呢這個是三月二十五號的資料月售票才售出三點七萬張就是你們有一百二十二萬個座位但是呢只有售出三點七萬張那我不曉得"},{"start":15016.445,"end":15035.608,"text":"最近的這個宣傳的情況怎麼樣那現在賣出了多少張報告委員其實我們在這個國道客運的部分他本來預售的狀況都不會太好因為大家的習慣是到現場去買票現場去買票那我們這幾年這兩年裡面我們推出了很多的優惠方案我看是優惠很大"},{"start":15036.129,"end":15051.364,"text":"那我們有看到就是說每一車的這個乘載人數的數量人次的部分其實都有在上升也就是說利用率有在提高利用率有在提高那我們希望可以做得更好那我問一下局長去年應該也有類似的這個優惠"},{"start":15053.175,"end":15064.799,"text":"我們最近這幾個連假都有這幾個連假都有那目前大概整體狀況整體狀況大概就是陳副部長剛剛所提到的部分就是個別車輛每車乘客率的部分的話從18點多拉到這個19點多"},{"start":15070.7,"end":15094.148,"text":"18點多到19點多再加一個人我們不是一台車可以做到快40個人嗎那個拉一個人那個在國道上面算是蠻不錯的那另外一個部分的話就是說東部東部這個台北宜蘭的部分那個運量都有這個成長那在西部的部分大概目前持平但是在西部各北的國道科運業者裡面有些人這個成長的比例都相當高"},{"start":15094.948,"end":15120.258,"text":"我這個是一個非常好的優惠也能夠節省大家的錢然後大家利用國道客運也能夠盡量不要去塞車這是好的政策但是我認為到現在為止好像不知道是宣傳效果不夠還是怎麼樣我們再加強宣導不然才提供那麼多的位置結果做不到一半好不好謝謝主席非常感謝我們李昆城委員謝謝"},{"start":15121.92,"end":15137.225,"text":"好接下來我們邀請劉書斌委員發言好謝謝主席那有請陳部長請陳部長"},{"start":15144.332,"end":15144.512,"text":"委員好"},{"start":15174.352,"end":15181.815,"text":"那為了說實這樣的修法美意的話呢據我所知啊經濟就是交通部呢他已經啟動了這個放寬的這樣的一個規定把這個牌照登記的跟駐居所跟就業處住所的地址呢納入到車籍認定的範圍那他也並要他的智慧機政的牌照稅的這個財政部那我想說這個程序上面有沒有辦法"},{"start":15199.482,"end":15217.792,"text":"有沒有辦法加快尤其是現在在4月份已經就已經開始的生收牌照稅那部長你們這邊的看法是怎麼樣報告委員 財政部那邊會來做解釋然後他們來做解釋之後我們就可以來做執行那表示你們內部還沒有溝通嗎其實兩邊的訊息都有在溝通啦 這個沒有問題昨天已經開過會了對 那你們的時程有在什麼時程大家會完成"},{"start":15228.037,"end":15243.435,"text":"這裡面有兩個課題啦第一個就是說原來復籍地對復籍地那現在復籍地跟這個住居所或者是那個相關的部分那目前這些資料如果說只要有申請的話現在已經在公務建立機關的車籍資料裡面已經有了"},{"start":15243.815,"end":15259.845,"text":"那現在就是配一個現在財政部只要把這個原來戶籍對戶籍這個認定的部分把這個放寬進來的話那原則上我剛才也是在問這個地方那個監理車籍的部分原則上就OK那我現在問題是時間性我知道你們有在方向做但是時間性上面呢我們要看財政部那邊啊他只要一發過來我們就可以馬上出來就我所知財政部也在發動因為我在財委會已經有交這個消息所以事實上一個月之內有可能嗎"},{"start":15275.934,"end":15298.344,"text":"4月會發佈好4月發佈 財政部4月會發佈他只要一發佈我們就可以配合處理好希望就4個月 希望是今這個月就能夠發佈因為這樣子那他說有可能有已經繳了不可能有可能要也會退稅也會處理嘛對不對這個部分因為現在牌照稅是屬於地方稅我們資料提供給地方政府都是地方政府開章那如果說後面需要做處理的話各地方政府會來做處理"},{"start":15299.164,"end":15325.076,"text":"好那我們繼續往下看齁在去年的時候呢看到澎澎凱委員有跟你提到問到說這個台灣的這個有沒有一個科學的根據的數據去支撐這個限速的部分齁那請問部長那這邊因為是大家用測速照相機在搶錢啦所以說這一部分有沒有人可以告訴我說現在道路的速限的標準有沒有寫在哪一條"},{"start":15326.412,"end":15342.24,"text":"報告委員其實不是在哪一條啦是很廣泛的各個規範工程規範裡面其實也有對於速度的限制那這個包含工程設計的過程裡面部長我跟你講其實這部分你說你還沒辦法答出來到底有沒有嘛對不對"},{"start":15343.2,"end":15348.101,"text":"你說可能在很多三件可是連兩條都沒有說出來那我們繼續往下看這部分我可以看到的是道路交通標誌標線設置規則當中85條就說了只說像你剛才所說的主管機關要參照那參照是什麼一個標準呢就是參照的是路線設計道路狀況交通量肇事資料跟其他因素可是你說了這部分參照的這個內容之後本身的標準其實就是"},{"start":15371.926,"end":15393.315,"text":"這個地方去落實的時候就是沒有標準嘛那怎麼想要去怎麼定都可以啊這個問題呢就可以知道說這個標準85條是一個這麼寬放的只是一個因素在決定參考價值而已那根本就沒辦法去做那這個地方尤其我們看到是有了大車子的向右轉的時候撞死人了然後但是呢卻是用降速的方式呢還設置了照相桿呢來去來因應這根本就是找錯方向啊路長您的回應呢"},{"start":15399.376,"end":15415.074,"text":"報告委員每一條道路都有它的設計速率這是最基本的參考那其實也包含了很多其他的參考點不是只有這個您剛剛上面也有寫交通量跟造勢資料例如說很簡單的講學校的附近對"},{"start":15416.015,"end":15436.616,"text":"但是我現在的意思是說這就涉及到我們的財產權它包括是道路安全因為我剛剛說的很多地方是大車它違規右轉你們卻是沒有對症下車跑到去把這個限速降低啊這不適用嘛再一說根本就是沒有質疑您剛剛在說的這個都不是交通部去把它速限降低都不是都是地方政府在設定的"},{"start":15437.136,"end":15441.821,"text":"因為你們的這個85條其實就是一個當初最高的就是在這個行政命令它是一個規則讓後面的地方能夠因此去做一個規範那在規範當中呢包括是速限的規定上面呢是希望說應該有個指引啦因為你的放空那四個那個因素等等其實是不夠的啦"},{"start":15458.337,"end":15479.051,"text":"所以就是說你們是不是可以來去承諾說因為像德國他們已經說了說這個有現行人區是30公里啊市區50公里市區外100公里其實如果相關的這些部分等等呢也應該都有相關的一個指引啊幫你空白授權代大讓地方政府可以去自行去做甚至還變成說是一個可以增加裁員的一種有利方式啊這樣子是沒辦法真正達到"},{"start":15479.571,"end":15503.764,"text":"報告委員所以行人友善區的書寫我們本來就是30以下本來就有市區您希望是50公里問題是在於有辦法所有的地方政府全部配合所以我說這個地方就是說因為你的放寬部長你請你要重視到我的重點在於說因為你的那個因素實在太多當然我知道也是有因地制宜可是這些指引是有必要的如果你沒有辦法這樣子看到的是以"},{"start":15506.645,"end":15531.377,"text":"北宜高速公路當中的在坪林這部分他是用最小設計速限的方式在公路路線設計規範當中有這個過程去做那但是卻是以最彎曲最危險的彎道卻是去規範所有的北宜高速公路北宜通路的這樣的一個一個速限其實是不合理的啦所以我才說必須要有些指引而且我覺得您在說的指引其實都有存在在哪裡呢現在有辦法這麼多的速率那在哪裡我是不是請局長跟您回答好"},{"start":15534.258,"end":15556.813,"text":"我跟各位報告一下這個所謂指引的這個剛剛我也有提到就是指引的部分比如說按照你的道路這個等級那你這些道路包括在丘陵區或平原區那這些相關這個要設計的時候要怎麼如何設計的部分那像公路的部分在公路設計規範裡面有那像市區道路的部分的話這個國土署的市區道路附屬設施相關的一個裡面也有一些設計的一個規範"},{"start":15558.354,"end":15582.002,"text":"所以設計過半是一個通則的規定但是到個別的一個路線的時候他會有這個山區平原區這些相關的部分沒有因為你設置到跟地方政府有相關的現在設置到有至少有三千的這樣的一個測速測像桿嘛所以這邊我想說你是不是給本席一個這樣子報告說這邊目前的這樣的一些你們有的這個執行等等還包括地方政府他們怎麼樣去落實是不是可以給本席一個報告"},{"start":15583.021,"end":15597.07,"text":"你需要這樣的資料我們會提供給你OK 好 謝謝希望大家能夠尊重到我們的保障到我們的這個用路人的或是在用車的用路人的這個安全好 謝謝謝謝我們非常感謝劉書斌委員好 接下來黃婕黃婕 黃婕委員不在好 我們要請廖先祥委員發言"},{"start":15614.241,"end":15618.143,"text":"好謝謝謝謝主席麻煩幫我要請陳部長請陳部長我們楊局長一起好了那個鐵道局楊局長楊局長部長這個會期不在交通委員會許久不見甚至想念"},{"start":15631.736,"end":15651.896,"text":"但我關心的議題您應該都知道啦首先這個會期還是想要先跟您還有楊局長探討一下我們這個汐止的新北市汐止的軌道運輸啦那除了汐東縣核定他目前在修正這個修正計畫沒有那麼急迫外啦另外兩個還沒動工的就是基隆捷運跟那個台北的民生縣那一段嘛"},{"start":15652.276,"end":15675.298,"text":"那想先確認一下我們的這個基隆捷運之前工程會有一些意見的嘛那目前新北市政府也已經在提升修正計畫進來了那我們目前交通部處理的狀況怎麼樣那大概哪時候可以再這個函給工程會是 報告員我們鐵道局在4月中旬會來召開會議來做審議是那這個部分如果要更詳細我是不是請局長來回答"},{"start":15675.558,"end":15684.85,"text":"好 那我們審議完了之後到工程會就是一樣的問題工程會再討論一次嗎還是會說我們鐵道局討論的跟工程會討論的會是不一樣的項目"},{"start":15686.768,"end":15707.347,"text":"是針對工程會的意見來做處理那這次因為工程會有提出包括預算的編列的問題包括工程相關的設計上的問題那我想我們來協助新北市政府在這些議題上面來去回應工程會的意見所以有一點算是幫工程會預審把關的概念了啦也就是說工程會"},{"start":15708.448,"end":15737.94,"text":"充分尊重的話原則上我們這邊省過工程會的意見就不會太大了可以這樣理解嗎好那就再拜託我們鐵道局再多多的指導那另外一個這個台北民生線的部分就是西東線的延伸東湖到寧夏夜市這一段那之前的問題在於兩個嘛一個是營運單位嘛另外一個是機場經費分攤的部分營運單位好像之前討論的差不多了嘛那不確定機場這個經費分攤的部分還是說我們有什麼其他的問題目前還在探討中需要去克服"},{"start":15739.148,"end":15767.095,"text":"跟委員報告八堵機場的議題這個共識還在努力當中所以經費分攤還沒有還沒有下來好啦那再拜託啦再拜託我們幫幫這個部長這邊是幫忙授權一下局長多多邀請其實專業最專業啦那需要裁員的部分這個各地方政府自己本來就要去做一些指引嘛我們交通部多多的協助啦好那再拜託這一點是應該算是整個西龍縣已經開始做了"},{"start":15767.495,"end":15793.476,"text":"那既然已經投資下去了要讓他的效益能夠高那就必須要整條線的串聯才能讓整個西東縣的捷運能夠來提升我想這應該是大家都會認同的一件事情另外還有一個事情就是現在捷運的補助之前這個我們就不去探討過去的原因了現在補助確証少一點那有一些聲音出來說因為有一些軌道建設現在已經是地方政府已經負擔了"},{"start":15794.717,"end":15812.948,"text":"可能一定很高的一個比例了中央補助的比例相對起來比較低了可能因為我們地方比較有錢了出了更多人那地方有聲音說那是不是既然都已經幾乎是地方出了未來如果說還有相關的軌道建設都地方出的錢那中央一定要透過在中央審查的這一段的行政程序嗎如果說他們願意"},{"start":15814.52,"end":15831.202,"text":"假設100%自籌這個軌道建設的話那這樣子的程序你們認為有沒有機會未來修法來做修改大眾捷運運輸法之類的讓地方在做軌道建設一部分為自己的負責任一部分加速行政流程"},{"start":15832.119,"end":15854.056,"text":"是 報告委員 這個部分我們要做通盤的檢討啦就是我們的審查要點裡面其實沒有把百分之百地方出資這一項把它挪移掉那我們可以來做這方面的討論可以來討論啦 這個可以加速行政流程那一部分也是地方政府既然都全部他自己的出了錢他應該要對自己的稅金更要能夠對自己的市民去交代"},{"start":15855.017,"end":15881.898,"text":"那另外一個請教一下還有點時間就是我們的那個自駕車之前我們不是台美對等關稅有提到說我們的車輛的檢驗如果說如果簽訂現在還沒簽訂如果簽訂了我們才納美國的檢測標準那大家會說那特斯拉是不是就能夠進來用自駕了那我知道在技術面跟法律面可能會有脫鉤的情況那部長這部分能不能多做一些說明如果說台美關稅簽訂了照之前大家講的那個版本過了"},{"start":15882.699,"end":15898.3,"text":"那我們特斯拉的自駕系統那在台灣上路的試用情形大概會是怎麼樣子的報告委員我對於交通部的要求是我們的法令必須要走在業者的需求之前也就是說車子研發出來了沒如果有的話我們法令要走在前面第二個當然特斯拉在美國已經可以自駕了"},{"start":15899.08,"end":15923.218,"text":"有沒有要引進如果有要引進的話我們一定要有適用的法令不可以沒有所以這個部分其實我們交通部都有在對接到國外的法令那我們的法令也會先準備起來如果當有業者要進來或者是委員知道有這樣的訊息給我們我們就會把法令做到完畢因為他說他是那個雲端更新就可以了其實每輛車都可以的只要說台灣開放的話還是請市長多做一些說明在實務面"},{"start":15925.94,"end":15946.93,"text":"這個部分我跟委員報告一下這裡面有兩個課題啦第一個部分就是說台美關稅談判裡面所涉及到的是這個安全法規的部分那剛剛委員所提到那個自駕的這個部分那個已經有些是跳脫到安全法規之外了那個只是就是說從Level 1到Level 5的一個部分"},{"start":15947.29,"end":15967.499,"text":"那每一個這個他層級到什麼地方然後來到那個地方可不可以這個落地的一個課題啦那這個有一些像美國這個支架他開放也是到這個頂多到L2 Plus那有一些所謂支架的部分還是在特定場域裡面在特定場域裡面就有點像國內的一個這個沙盒"},{"start":15967.859,"end":15996.704,"text":"那這個部分的話也就是剛剛早前這個部長有提到的部分國內自駕這些相關的一個部分的話目前大概先朝這個公車這個部分來做推動那這個小客車這個部分的話基本上就是看市場的一個這個所以不是像坊間說的只要開放了進來就可以用而是我們還是有其他除了車輛安全檢驗的部分還有其他的法令需要去做突破才有可能嗎對對對好那以上好謝謝好謝謝委員好非常感謝廖先祥委員"},{"start":15998.493,"end":16018.991,"text":"好 接下來我們邀請陳冠廷委員發言你好 我們請部長跟鐵道局局長請陳部長還有鐵道局 跟觀光署署長好 觀光署陳署長"},{"start":16024.285,"end":16046.577,"text":"部長好 部長我們先看一下我們的這個斗南車站的站前廣場那你看這個站前廣場跟斗南車站經過大幅步的擴建跟整修之後我們現在看到它整個門面看起來非常的乾淨那而且是有一些歷史性的這些建物都可以整體的融合在這樣子的規劃裡面"},{"start":16048.186,"end":16075.177,"text":"那我們認為我們的民雄車站它未來我們鐵路高加化之後它的空間也可以往類似這樣的方向去規劃我們這附近有早期的民雄警察分局的這個局長宿舍然後旁邊有鐵道倉庫然後還有農會倉庫那這些空間都基本上都具有歷史的這個意義在那整個人文的對整個民雄鄉的鄉親們來說都有它的歷史意義在那過去我們的車站"},{"start":16076.698,"end":16091.9,"text":"規劃的時候他以車站以功能性為主體以交通為主體他沒有辦法把人文地景歷史文化把它包裹進來那現在我們看到說從東南車站的這一個這個潛力看到說未來他是可以有這樣子的規劃的可能性的"},{"start":16092.381,"end":16109.601,"text":"那我的鐵路高教化預計是2031年來通車嘛那也就是說在整建的階段我們就可以把整個車站的周遭進行完整的規劃那以後完成之後它不是只是有交通性的意義鐵路高教化之後縫補整個市區讓未來的整個交通更便捷之外"},{"start":16110.322,"end":16125.263,"text":"他又可以把整個觀光的因素因此全部都納進去部長你認為民雄車站是不是有可能像或者是說超越斗南的車站未化戰前的廣場而且連結周遭的歷史建物然後把它納入整個車站的新空間"},{"start":16126.42,"end":16154.371,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們有在規劃跟討論中那這個過程當中其實地方政府的意見也相當的重要因為這個不是只有我們鐵道局在處理這個軌道的這個高架化而已那我們之前在動工的時候我也跟委員有討論過就是說地方的一些文化跟地方的需求跟地方的創生或許也可以納入未來裡面的商業使用的思考那對於廣場要怎麼使用這個部分或者是說整體的交通動線該怎麼樣去規劃"},{"start":16155.911,"end":16164.64,"text":"我們會跟地方政府來做合作那大家來討論什麼樣的方向對地方來講是符合需求而且可以看得到有這個觀光價值存在"},{"start":16165.578,"end":16190.594,"text":"我看最近包含整個民雄的重返大學路各地方的NGO 街景文化商圈的這些都已經成了各種不同的公民團體那這些公民團體都在討論說未來怎麼樣去規劃所以參與感是很重的所以未來當然地方政府一定是要納入我們的討論空間相公所 縣政府還有這些地方的公民團體NGO"},{"start":16191.354,"end":16209.101,"text":"我希望有類似有公民參與這種審議是民主的方式把它全部都納入之後那接下來觀光署的行銷那就可以連結在後面的這個俄羅斯街也好美食文化歷史那整體的行銷就會更加有利所以這個部分"},{"start":16209.201,"end":16226.527,"text":"我還是希望說是不是能夠請這個我們會希望縣政府來帶頭那很快縣市長的這個選舉交接可能會是在這一年會比較忙碌但是我們希望說在那之前我們就可以先開啟這樣子的作業所以我們回去也會跟地方的縣府"},{"start":16227.327,"end":16241.736,"text":"官員們來討論說是不是就儘快來開始把這個前期就不要到後期的時候再規劃前期就必須先想好 是那納入大家的這個考量然後儘快把它去推動這部分局長也覺得是我們可以把它納入的嗎"},{"start":16242.889,"end":16268.047,"text":"剛剛委員報告因為民雄車站的這個建築還有包括跟周遭商業上面的整合那這個在去年嘉義縣政府已經召開過都市審的這個審查委員會那基本上在去年五月就已經得到一個原則通過後續是在等都市計畫的變更之後呢再來去做確定的這樣的一個定案那委員剛剛所提示的我想包括"},{"start":16268.808,"end":16276.767,"text":"而用一條街北側的廣場還有南側的這個廣場未來都會朝著這個方向來跟地方的創生跟相關的這些活動來做結合"},{"start":16278.64,"end":16305.383,"text":"最後就是這部分部長就跟民雄火車站比較沒有直接關係就高鐵的部分那我想未來我們嘉義縣太保站他接下來要承載的是整個嘉義科學園區那嘉義科學園區還是在擴建中包含嘉義的這個實驗高中等等全部都在那個區塊那縣府那邊已經有提示說整體的周遭附近已經開始可能只要"},{"start":16306.144,"end":16330.397,"text":"台積電完工之後再擴廠之後就會有臃色的狀態那另外一個部分就是跟高鐵的班次那未來隨著更多的這種國際的這個企業人士來的話我們認為說高鐵的班次可能是可以思考一下是不是像台南一樣增開這種直達的班次或者是多增加班次那對我們整個嘉義接下來的交通上面的輸入會比較有幫助"},{"start":16331.537,"end":16348.153,"text":"其實這個部分我們會請高鐵公司滾動檢討就他的需求跟我們實際能夠提供的運量來做檢討那再麻煩部長把這個考量一下好 謝謝委員好 我們非常感謝陳冠廷委員好 接下來我們邀請林倩琦委員發言"},{"start":16360.763,"end":16367.361,"text":"好 謝謝我們主席 林總召這邊先請我們觀光局 對不起 交通部部長請陳部長"},{"start":16375.231,"end":16395.911,"text":"阿姨部長好因為本席昨天總質詢有兩個議題是跟你們有關的最後一個議題因為時間比較窘迫所以今天本席在這邊在做一個比較完整的一個就教昨天的最後一個議題就是在談我們希望能夠打造一個台灣的朝聖之路這個議題其實本席已經關心很久了"},{"start":16396.531,"end":16424.336,"text":"那遠啟最主要是整個長距離徒步的旅行是成為一個很重要的旅遊的趨勢那很具代表性的昨天本席有講過就是西班牙的跟日本的兩條路徑型的文化遺產那這兩個路徑型的文化遺產其實整合了歷史的敘事跟宗教文化還有地方的經濟它其實已經形成了一個國際品牌辨識度非常高的一個旅遊行程"},{"start":16425.336,"end":16453.226,"text":"那麼很重要就是說我們其實也蠻有幸的台灣在過去其實我們在許多這個宣教士的一個歷史跟宗教文化脈絡上有這個朝聖之路的條件那東部目前也有人希望能夠在這個部分更做一個強化來做宗教性的一個徒步觀光路往那目前很重要的一件事情就是說中央層級跟地方的一個整合其實還有一些落差所以本席要請教部長那交通部是不是也有評估"},{"start":16454.426,"end":16471.727,"text":"把現在分散的一個宣教士的文化路徑整合成為一個徒步的旅遊路網然後在半年內是不是可以具體可行的評估一些事辦計畫事實上台灣現在很多人在走那我們也可以從一些相關的討論看到大家在走的時候的一些需求"},{"start":16472.668,"end":16490.785,"text":"那台灣的一些宣教式的歷史足跡其實包括了西班牙的道明會大概在南部跟北部都有這樣一個路徑還有在花蓮有法國外方的一個傳教會東部地區花東也有台東的白冷會跟中部有聖瑪利諾這只是說天主教的系統"},{"start":16491.365,"end":16510.458,"text":"其實基督教系統還有馬街 馬雅各等等但目前相關的這些資源都分散在不同的部會當中有文化部然後也有這個園民會的這個園鄉那所以有一些跟觀光署或地方的相關的這個部分其實比較沒有一個整合性"},{"start":16511.098,"end":16526.206,"text":"所以這些文化路徑可不可以來結合既有的國家綠道你昨天有談到那淡蘭古道 張之細路 等路然後好好的來建構一個路網成為一個台灣的朝聖路網那事實上這個東西也可以直接跟"},{"start":16527.687,"end":16542.107,"text":"目前國外的品牌來做結合或者是我們可以自己獨立發展出來一個品牌那本席這邊提醒我們知道你們現在在觀光轉型上在旅遊的這個旅宿的升級也做了一些投入但是很重要的目前看起來都有點"},{"start":16543.089,"end":16558.685,"text":"景點是 可是現在的趨勢是漫遊 徒步旅遊那這個部分其實所需要的經費也不多那有的時候你們就是做一個整合性的工作所以目前不知道你們是不是可以將徒步的觀光跟漫遊台灣納入中長期觀光的一個政策"},{"start":16560.623,"end":16589.43,"text":"部長好 謝謝委員的關心您所提到的這個朝聖之路那這是一個應該是蠻新的一個看法在台灣那您提出來是不是我請觀光署也去了解一下類似這樣子的遊程現在的吸引力到底有多大那有沒有可能有一些旅遊團或是觀光團願意走這樣的路程我們先了解一下可能在這個部分一個是所謂的觀光的思維然後一個是自助性的那其實現在很多人在走"},{"start":16589.81,"end":16608.65,"text":"那大部分大家會自己連結可是這樣觀光團一併進去的一個方式可能大家這中間要有一些整合跟一些溝通跟對談那是不是你們可以先把這些路網給整理出來然後了解一下目前已經在走的人的一個狀況那看看大家的需求是什麼"},{"start":16609.13,"end":16630.109,"text":"那當然這裡面有一個大家也不太熟悉的概念就是過去這種長期徒步的比較長徒步的這個路網型態有這個所謂的庇護所的一個系統這個是台灣可能都完全沒有的一個概念那事實上這個部分也可以透過一些空間的活化或平台的整合跟連結然後把這個系統慢慢的整合起來"},{"start":16630.709,"end":16647.837,"text":"那目前現階段其實交通部這邊能夠做的就是路網的一個安全性然後跟一個路網的指示性我想這是第一步可以來做的那本席這邊先做一個這個建議啦但是切入的觀點就如同這個概念在台灣並不是太盛行"},{"start":16648.237,"end":16674.105,"text":"所以我們或許可以轉化一個旅遊團或觀光團大部分切入的一個觀點能夠讓大家自助性的或者是自發性的目前已經在走的或者是曾經在國外走過的然後在國內把這個路網再連結起來最重要就是這些宣教士跟歐美文化的一個連結這甚至在外交上很多歐美人來到台灣會尋找這種路徑我想如果外交部比較更深"},{"start":16674.485,"end":16694.762,"text":"而且有一些經驗的外交官他們大概都知道這樣一個連結是什麼樣子的一個形態當然觀念很新那最主要就是說可不可以透過了解跟對談把這個路網給建置起來那是不是可以列為這個交通部在這個中長期的一個計畫的一個建置呢我們把這件事列入討論我們把它列進來討論因為過去確實沒討論過謝謝委員提供這麼好的建議那我們以後把它列入討論"},{"start":16700.106,"end":16725.883,"text":"好好好謝謝部長好謝謝署長好非常感謝林倩琪委員的發言好接下來蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在好接下來我們要請劉旭廷委員發言謝謝主席交通部陳部長有請好我們請陳部長"},{"start":16731.778,"end":16760.504,"text":"委員好部長午安辛苦了交通部是大部業報總是質詢大排長龍就辛苦了但我們今天還是要繼續追這個本期的選區在桃園這我一向都是幫通勤族的權益代言那這段時間雖然小有成果但結構性的問題的改善卻有限所以今天當然我們要持續來做關心通勤族的三大困境在桃園一個叫人一個叫車一個叫路分別不代表不同的題目我希望可以聽到交通部明確的回答"},{"start":16761.104,"end":16782.658,"text":"人的困境當然就是國道客運的司機荒這件事情其實我們已經在這裡反覆討論非常多次那曾經有一度有討論比如說橋外生等等有沒有辦法輔導就業讓他變成大客車司機培訓的這樣子一個來源那看當初就講說正在做跨部會的研議但是部長研議到了現在好像還在研議"},{"start":16783.999,"end":16811.119,"text":"114年12月統計公路客運價值缺元是661市區客運缺元1367合計缺款超過2000人比起去年10月我們關心這個題目的時候稍微收斂一點點少了253人就是稍微找到了一些人但是恐怕這離2000多人目標還是很大一段距離要走啊所以當初勞動部也預告要修正法規說橋外政部我們要開放嘛總得補人吧但卻在5月公告的時候不見了這中間發生什麼事了是不是請交通部說明一下"},{"start":16812.14,"end":16832.188,"text":"報告委員 應該是勞動部那邊對一些條件還有一些疑義不過最近我有跟勞動部長有在做討論我們的各自的意見其實都已經開始在收斂所以我們希望能夠趕快針對橋外生的駕駛的部分能夠來做一些對客運業者的協助時間有沒有明確"},{"start":16833.568,"end":16849.138,"text":"你現在講只有五月嘛後來表現不是這樣對不對有沒有新的時間表是我們先把問題解決因為我現在沒有辦法給一個比較具體的時間我本期再給你另外一個建議啦這是曾經我們在國防委員會的時候跟退府會討論的時候其實很多是軍人退役他也要有生涯發展等等"},{"start":16849.838,"end":16876.642,"text":"然後也許具備一定的技術嘛所以我講你從各個不同的領域多方的跨部會的協調去看看有沒有辦法去擴大這個人才的儲備庫啦我想這也是值得嘗試的所以我想退役軍人的部分也可以思考一下當然我們的政策都要重優嘛不管是喬艾森這一塊也好或者是其他也好政策上的重優補助讓他大量的誘因我想是很必要的那再來改善環境這我們就不多講因為今天時間有限希望交通部這我們兩個禮拜之內會不會書面回覆你們的辦理進度可以嗎"},{"start":16877.342,"end":16897.743,"text":"呃可以可以可以啊OK好謝謝這是人人的困境第二個叫車的困境啊這這個算是有一點點明確進展但是一樣是卡關的狀態嘛這之前很多人包含交通部裡面我們都委員在質詢都希望國道客運可以開放雙層巴士同樣的司機一個司機我載客量double他也是解決問題的一個方式那現在看起來也好像"},{"start":16898.283,"end":16912.363,"text":"有開放了對不對已經開放了修法已經修完了對不對那修完之後因為桃園市政府很快啊因為我們桃園非常需要國道客運所以桃園市政府已經看到投影片上已經有補助實施計畫但我要跟部長講殘酷的現實就真的補助實施計畫給的時候客運業者有點害怕"},{"start":16914.326,"end":16915.266,"text":"這個部分我們應該會做一些補助啦那詳細的補助我是不是請局長來回答好"},{"start":16939.053,"end":16961.338,"text":"跟護委報告一下這個補助的這個部分我們現在在檢討把它納到這個公園裡面但是現在就是還有兩個課題必須要就是有點必須要一點時間第一個部分的話大概面臨到的課題去年公園有53億的經費但是今年只有這個35億所以經費大幅增加所以我們的空間是相當的這個局限"},{"start":16961.838,"end":16974.655,"text":"那第二個部分的話因為我想我還是要跟各位報告一下因為這個預算我必須要考慮說通過的預算有多少那個再做調整所以目前大概這是這兩個課題這邊我們內部已經有在研擬這個補助的經驗"},{"start":16978.059,"end":16997.253,"text":"你兩個禮拜一樣我至少要知道計畫的內容那我想我跟部長我也很清楚講像這種民生相關的你就大膽的提新計畫因為我們這個立法院通過的其實都是民生相關的你當然提沒有關係或者是未來用追加的方式我相信尤其是照顧通勤族的所有立法委員都不會為難這筆預算但希望交通部至少要點要出來嘛我們讓這個東西明確嘛"},{"start":16998.394,"end":17019.937,"text":"那大概業者也許會做比較 有地方政府走比較快 優惠比較多 至少就可以先走我們才可以具體的看到政策成效啦 好不好這一點 一樣我們兩個禮拜之後 我們要有書面 甚至要來做一下討論 可以嗎好 第三個要入的困境 這是我桃園區這個大桃園非常重要的一個交通工程 叫做國道一號甲線現在這個西段 也就是海邊到蘆竹南崁"},{"start":17020.678,"end":17036.541,"text":"接到大坑交流道這一段基本上已經開始進行動工非常感謝這個中央地方共同合作來推展的建設但是我要提醒陳部長您可能是來的時間比較新一點這個過去的時候在討論國道一號甲線的建設的時候它其實有分西段跟東段"},{"start":17037.282,"end":17063.143,"text":"而東段對於紓解桃園春日路的塞車上交流道的塞車是非常非常重要的但這一段中間一度有一些困難後來變成要分段處理我現在沒有講說你馬上就要變出錢然後馬上動工很難但是我至少希望這個計畫不要被刪除我東段我要重啟討論所以我現在希望交通部重新做研究評估等等現在有沒有相關的進度跟規劃請部長回答我是不是請局長回答可以的 謝謝"},{"start":17064.684,"end":17090.502,"text":"跟委員報告因為國藝甲的這一個確實西段的這個部分已經開始了嘛對已經開始了那我們三標的部分都有絕標都有絕標了嘛那東段之前在做這個可研的時候其實本來就委員也知道這邊的話還有很多就是說包括中油的一些煉油廠的相關的一些設施那所以後續的這個部分的話我想我們會再跟因為也涉及到包括這個"},{"start":17092.364,"end":17104.102,"text":"經濟部然後還有這個地方的部分我想我們或許這個東研的這個部分的話以前的一些研究的一些基礎我想我們會來做再做一個那個完整的一些檢討這樣子"},{"start":17105.696,"end":17132.615,"text":"這個我跟部長跟局長也更新一下進度這從本席就任立委開始我第一個去的地方就是煉油廠經濟部長也跟著去了其中我們就有討論到未來包含除油槽怎麼去做調整路廊怎麼畫最經濟其實跟煉油廠都有展開合理的溝通台灣市政府也同步在進行相關的一個準備所以其實我講今天講我們至少要讓這個計畫重新開始啟動花一點時間做政策溝通都是要的本席也百分之一百願意去協助但希望交通這邊既然"},{"start":17133.055,"end":17158.598,"text":"地方已經開始動起來了對於這個有所期待就希望不要再停留在過去的想像說我們做西段就好東段把它遺忘了這我想對桃園的通勤狀況的改善那就是扣分了好不好所以希望交通部部長這個一樣這個會後一樣我們就兩個禮拜了這個都只是講說現在的一個進度跟研究的計畫我們重新把它排上軌道上這我們再來做進一步的研討可以嗎好人車路三個問題拜託交通部長謝謝好非常感謝牛細田委員"},{"start":17160.111,"end":17186.582,"text":"好 接下來武麗華 武麗華 武麗華委員不在張宏祿 張宏祿 張宏祿委員不在鄭正前 鄭正前 鄭正前委員不在好 接下來我們要請王洪威委員發言好 謝謝部長我請我們交通部部長以及觀光署署長好 請總部長 請陳署長"},{"start":17192.827,"end":17216.799,"text":"委員好部長好署長好請教一下就是前一陣子發生在花蓮鋁魚潭的一個溺水事件大家都覺得非常的難過有關於管轄權責的分配我想請問一下署長我們是不是已經有做了一些相關的釐清權責的部分"},{"start":17220.195,"end":17247.359,"text":"是 因為我覺得上次那個事情真的是也非常遺憾然後因為我們現在的觀光的部分因為會很多新的有觀光的體驗的部分那這次的狀況是像有動力船動力船那塊是在航港局這邊來處理那三位以下的部分跟非動力船是航港局授權各地方政府用自治條例的方式來做相關的管理"},{"start":17247.899,"end":17262.015,"text":"那因為觀光署的縱管處負責的是鯉魚潭的管理所以鯉魚潭是由觀光署來做觀光署縱管處來做管理還有訂定相關的管理規則"},{"start":17263.096,"end":17277.937,"text":"比如说到我们这边来那我们需要是业者到领域团来经营的时候他应该需要具备什么样的条件比如说要符合商单然后比如说要投保等等这些是由关公署这边来负责要求"},{"start":17278.356,"end":17294.905,"text":"好所以發生這件遺憾的事件我們將來有關於他的相關的管理規則包含有些業者他已經違反相關的規定要怎麼樣停業那也都是應該是由我們觀光署來訂定是吧"},{"start":17297.206,"end":17318.619,"text":"基本上因為公務署在場面經營上面有兩件事情是必須負責的因為第一個是遊客的安全那遊客的安全在現在目前所有當時在整個旅遊台裡面經營的這些業者他目前沒有辦法提出被誰檢驗過他的船隻的安全上面的檢驗目前現在是沒有的"},{"start":17319.099,"end":17321.741,"text":"我肯定不管中央地方都以負責任的態度因為不要發生遺憾的事情最後變成用踢皮球的方式至於鋁魚潭的管理的權責在這邊也已經相當的釐清"},{"start":17341.838,"end":17370.166,"text":"由觀光署眾管處來做負責好謝謝那我請那個署長先請回部長請教一件事情我覺得這也很重要是前不久發生一件事情就是我們中華電信百分之百投資的中華投資這個是算是中華電一孫公司結果他的董事長叫做丁彥志那麼他去擔任一家叫聖域科技公司的獨董"},{"start":17371.486,"end":17388.217,"text":"讀懂但是這家生育科技呢它的第一大客戶剛剛好就是中華電信好 占它的這個比重啊好 非常非常的大中華電信就是這一家公司的第一大客戶好啦 所以外界就認為啊"},{"start":17389.278,"end":17399.287,"text":"怎麼會有這樣子啊中華電信成為一家公司的最大客戶然後呢他的孫公司的董事長去做人家讀董這是怎麼樣是當是當顧問嗎還是去當門審當然所以就因為這樣的事情"},{"start":17409.639,"end":17437.193,"text":"又遭到外界的質疑所以短短五天這位丁業智董事長就辭去了獨董的職務可這件事情就這樣了了嗎就我們的國營事業的子公司孫公司可以這樣去當他的母公司最大客戶的獨董被外界認為是門神嗎所以我想請問一下部長對這件事情你們的處理是什麼"},{"start":17438.153,"end":17459.174,"text":"報告委員第一方面是法令上行不行法規上行不行有沒有限制他去擔任這個獨董那第二是媒體所寫的跟委員剛剛所質疑的也沒有錯觀感的問題社會認為你這樣去擔任這樣子的獨董適不適合那如果第一項在法令上在法令上不行的話"},{"start":17459.815,"end":17488.404,"text":"那當然我們就得追究那第二如果觀感上不好的話那我們也希望他可以離開這樣子的獨董的職位這個大概就是我們交通部的態度所以你們就這樣了掉了就這樣了了這個部分請中華電信內部去做了解就是說第一法令上行不行如果法令上不行那當然要要有另外的處置法令上不行他卻又去擔任但第二個可能性然後那董事長這位是簡董事長嗎"},{"start":17490.157,"end":17513.895,"text":"總經理總經理 董事長有來嗎沒有來好那董事長他還後來跟他們去就是吃飯啊之類的也被外界在做質疑我認為吃飯不是說完全不能吃飯因為當然你吃飯的內容是些什麼東西但是剛才如果按照部長講的這部長就有點在獲悉你啦"},{"start":17514.916,"end":17538.689,"text":"所以因為在法律上沒有然後他只要吃掉讀懂就好了所以他當了五天讀懂就跑掉了就是因為外界觀感不好大家會有利益迴避的原則可是丁彥智不就是你們所派任的嗎我剛講他是中華投資可是中華電信百分之百去投資的公司"},{"start":17540.031,"end":17550.264,"text":"如果這樣的話 所有國營事業 像看台電有多少客戶中鋼有多少客戶 中油有多少客戶結果他的子公司 孫公司都可以去當讀董一魚兩吃"},{"start":17554.415,"end":17583.781,"text":"這很難看因為這種是放諸四海皆准的一個原則我希望我在這邊做具體的建議不是只是五天內請辭很難看嘛你也承認這個違背社會觀感但是我覺得應該該處理就要處理啊好不好那我覺得丁彥志還適合擔任這個董事長的職務嗎也許交通部應該跟中華電信做一個徹底的檢討好不好"},{"start":17584.286,"end":17611.421,"text":"是 我們作為大股東 我們會跟中華電信來討論這個議題好我們非常感謝王宏威委員好 接下來我們邀請葉元之委員發言謝謝主席 麻煩請部長 謝謝請陳部長"},{"start":17618.486,"end":17645.341,"text":"部長好委員好我們來關心一下我們選區的建設其實您應該知道我要問什麼因為我跟您提過很多次了從您剛上任的時候就是太阪輕軌了您知道了建設不分藍綠啦當然但是這拖到太久了當時我有跟您提到太阪輕軌他是民進黨前交通部長王國才為了幫民進黨某一位立委助選跑到板橋開的政見"},{"start":17646.542,"end":17670.819,"text":"跟大家講說我們要蓋太阪輕軌 社後支線這個是2024年之前王博才對板橋鄉親做的莊嚴沉默結果新北市政府也都很配合啊 積極啊112年開始5月3號就第一次提報然後後來來來回回來來回回已經到了第五次提報"},{"start":17671.69,"end":17698.24,"text":"第五次提報是去年的十月十三號當時新北市政府很慎重由侯友宜市長主動召集李議長還有明代然後到現場宣布這件事情來問大家的意見然後大家沒有意見就送出了結果去年十月到今天又半年過去了然後我得知道最新的進度是交通部在二月份的時候又退回了"},{"start":17698.88,"end":17708.7,"text":"那退回的理由我跟部長報告因為部長日語萬機啦你可能不會了解到那麼多重大建設啦他的理由是因為太阪輕軌它幾個路段把它改成高架"},{"start":17709.264,"end":17736.434,"text":"那我想局長會知道改成高架的原因是因為要提升行駛的速率因為他有時候可能會遇到一些十字路口那如果說高架的話他就可以避開這些十字路口然後所以提高這些速率然後讓這一個可行性可以更高嘛這是一件好事嘛結果提高局又回覆就說請新北市政府說明一下新增這兩段高架路段的必要性"},{"start":17738.39,"end":17754.157,"text":"不要緊我跟你講了就這樣然後再來就是說我不懂說人家十月份送這個過來哇 你提這個問題你要開這麼久的會喔你要開四個月的會然後問了一個大災問了一個那麼籠統的問題"},{"start":17757.783,"end":17781.154,"text":"這個難免會人家覺得你在卡啦因為如果說絕對不會卡你放心這個不會卡不是啦不要講一套錯一套我說難免讓人家覺得我剛剛講的意思是說人家十月就送來了然後結果審了四鐵道局要審的案子同時要審查案子非常多審了四個月然後只是回了這一個問題欸不只這個問題然後差不多啦部長這個還是要跟你拜託"},{"start":17782.915,"end":17811.363,"text":"好不好這個是王國才部長的莊嚴承諾他都已經下來不知道已經幾任部長了然後那個時候啊我們在地方開會的時候民進黨立委因為板橋有兩個立委嘛另外一位啦然後他說哇那時候交通部啊都已經講了社後輕軌的什麼路啊都已經指明是哪一條路了錢都準備好了啊新北市怎麼沒有做這個社後輕軌我現在講的是主線都沒有過啦還要支線欸"},{"start":17812.603,"end":17837.735,"text":"主線的可行性研究都沒過那你怎麼承諾嘛你現在讓我們的感覺是說你這個效益很低啊沒什麼可行性啊那幹嘛一定要蓋咧現在感覺就這樣嘛那如果是這種態度的話那當時王國才為什麼來跟大家講說要蓋射後輕軌然後按照民進黨立委的說法是錢都準備好了路都指明了局長我先問一下請問一下他當時是指哪一條路射後輕軌是指哪一條路"},{"start":17841.204,"end":17868.016,"text":"報文這個我可能要再瞭解一下所以沒這件事是不是所以那個立委也在隨便亂講然後說錢都準備好請問是錢是準備多少不是啦報告委員那個立委說錢都準備好錢是準備多少一條歸一條啦這一條呃太阪輕軌的部分他的問題我們要去面對跟解決好先把這一條解決完之後我們再來談我沒有我沒有第一個齁不然我沒有說不要解決我沒有說啊很潦草但是這個時程嘛時程嘛"},{"start":17868.576,"end":17891.492,"text":"一百一十二年五月三號就已經提了然後到現在已經一百一十五年也快五月三號了已經過三年了不過報告委員裡面有一些修改您剛剛也提到你可以快一點嗎我跟你講任何報告都是會有修改來來回回這我們都知道您在部裡面有一些公文你叫下面的人重送也都OK重點是時程嘛是是"},{"start":17892.569,"end":17913.585,"text":"當然會來來回回啊那如果按照你的理由的話十年夠不夠我給你十年夠不夠反正都會來來回回嘛那難道你不能夠找一些方法是讓他來來回回的的時間縮短嗎或者來來回回的頻率降低嗎部長如果說你願意做一定是可以啊所以我現在就是告訴你說地方給我們的回答如果是符合鐵道局的審議會議裡面所要求的那當然所以交通部現在站的"},{"start":17914.445,"end":17939.993,"text":"態度就是把你東西給我啦OK的話我就過不OK我就叫你改你現在是比較被動的態度嗎OK這件事是看專業的態度你是比較被動的態度那我已經講了這是交通部長的莊嚴承諾所以你應該是化被動為主動積極的去解決這個問題我的態度很簡單我們會積極希望能夠解決問題不然這已經必須要地方政府能夠配合地方政府很配合不然的話交通部會讓人家感覺王國才部長在"},{"start":17941.854,"end":17963.933,"text":"為了選舉亂開支票然後我們另外一區民進黨立委也是為了選舉亂開支票所以你做這個事情是不分藍綠的不分藍綠的主線是在我們那邊沒錯但是支線在另外一個我們一起來爭取所以今天把這個問題凸顯出來我真的覺得太久了啦真的太久了可以加快速度嗎部長 局長可以願意願意協助嗎願意化被動為主動嗎"},{"start":17965.572,"end":17994.263,"text":"我們一直都很願意化會不是說看他不OKOK就過不OK就繼續啊不要這種態度啦好不好部長我們謝謝葉委員那下一次那接下來可不可以主動聯絡一下然後然後趕快讓他過可不可以因為趙偉也是民意代表趙偉很懂很了解我們多次的會議啦我們開很多次會議盡力努力啦好不好盡力努力好謝謝感謝我們謝謝葉原之委員好謝謝部長請回座"},{"start":17997.813,"end":18021.93,"text":"好 非常感謝我們交通部科同仁還有我們媒體朋友大家辛苦了我們登記諮詢的委員都已發言完畢我們現在做以下的決定一 報告及詢答完畢另外 我們委員廖先祥 游皓 萬美玲蔡春籌 林楚英所提的書面諮詢列入記錄並且刊登公報"},{"start":18023.371,"end":18044.723,"text":"第三 我們委員在諮詢中有要求提供一些相關的書面資料或者是我們交通部同仁沒有來得及答覆的部分請交通部及相關機關儘速以書面來答覆另外針對本日會議的討論事項"},{"start":18046.909,"end":18053.739,"text":"我們作等以下決議 我們會另外定期再繼續審查好 本次會議結束 散會"}]}},{"id":"17321","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17321","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2dbbd6dedb4516fb0fc92fdfe00e648b4b7a9d5466ed3f8140e81c7be4ae8b6dfc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-04-01","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-04-01T08:34:53+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:28:00+08:00","duration":13987,"影片長度":"03:53:07","委員發言時間":"08:34:53 - 12:28:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1671.3984687500001,"end":1674.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1674.03096875,"end":1674.8578437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1674.8578437500003,"end":1674.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1676.73096875,"end":1680.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1680.9665937500001,"end":1681.6078437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1681.6078437500003,"end":1681.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1682.1647187500002,"end":1687.4972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1687.8684687500001,"end":1693.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1693.4878437500001,"end":1701.4359687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1701.5709687500002,"end":1704.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1705.0134687500001,"end":1710.2447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1710.4978437500001,"end":1710.8690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1710.9703437500002,"end":1718.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1718.5303437500002,"end":1719.4078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1719.59346875,"end":1721.2303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1722.3103437500001,"end":1727.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1727.4572187500003,"end":1731.8953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1731.9628437500003,"end":1733.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1734.1565937500002,"end":1743.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1744.3153437500002,"end":1747.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1747.8590937500003,"end":1751.8922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1752.3309687500002,"end":1756.2290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1756.5159687500002,"end":1759.4859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1763.19846875,"end":1768.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1769.1890937500002,"end":1771.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1772.2434687500001,"end":1774.6903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1774.87596875,"end":1789.0340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1791.5484687500002,"end":1798.5684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1799.49659375,"end":1801.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1802.8209687500002,"end":1807.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1809.19971875,"end":1812.6422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1814.11034375,"end":1817.7047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1818.5147187500002,"end":1821.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1822.96971875,"end":1825.0115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1826.63159375,"end":1829.9390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1830.6309687500002,"end":1833.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1835.1197187500002,"end":1839.3553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1840.6040937500002,"end":1844.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1845.19409375,"end":1852.1634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1853.3109687500003,"end":1856.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1858.4747187500002,"end":1861.6978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1862.6597187500001,"end":1864.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1865.3765937500002,"end":1866.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1867.13159375,"end":1868.4478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1869.3084687500002,"end":1873.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1874.6578437500002,"end":1878.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1880.5134687500001,"end":1881.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1881.9647187500002,"end":1884.8165937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1886.67284375,"end":1889.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1891.0097187500003,"end":1891.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1892.57909375,"end":1895.3634687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1896.3590937500003,"end":1898.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1898.48534375,"end":1900.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1901.8434687500003,"end":1906.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1907.8847187500003,"end":1911.2090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1916.8622187500002,"end":1920.9290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1921.4859687500002,"end":1931.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1941.7022187500002,"end":1945.0097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1945.73534375,"end":1947.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1948.3340937500002,"end":1952.2490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1952.5697187500002,"end":1953.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1953.9872187500002,"end":1957.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1958.3409687500002,"end":1959.0497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1959.4378437500002,"end":1963.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1964.4834687500002,"end":1973.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1973.6128437500001,"end":1977.6290937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1978.1015937500001,"end":1980.5484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1980.6665937500002,"end":1982.3709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1983.0797187500002,"end":1985.8978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1986.4040937500001,"end":1988.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1988.9690937500002,"end":1990.9603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1991.4834687500002,"end":1992.3778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1992.6815937500003,"end":1993.8797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1994.3353437500002,"end":1996.1915937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1996.6640937500001,"end":2005.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2006.4178437500002,"end":2011.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2012.25659375,"end":2015.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2015.8003437500001,"end":2018.1290937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2018.58471875,"end":2020.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2021.3690937500003,"end":2022.2972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2023.09034375,"end":2029.3340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2029.8065937500003,"end":2034.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2034.5315937500002,"end":2037.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2038.0415937500002,"end":2041.0284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2041.3997187500001,"end":2042.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2042.9690937500002,"end":2043.2390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2043.5090937500001,"end":2051.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2051.84534375,"end":2060.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2060.31659375,"end":2066.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2066.54346875,"end":2068.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2069.2772187500004,"end":2069.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2069.91846875,"end":2070.5428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2071.0153437500003,"end":2072.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2073.2090937499997,"end":2078.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2079.3347187500003,"end":2081.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2081.61284375,"end":2084.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2084.8865937500004,"end":2089.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2089.81409375,"end":2092.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2092.68284375,"end":2094.5897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2095.0790937500005,"end":2097.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2097.2897187500002,"end":2106.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2107.4147187500002,"end":2108.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2108.6972187500005,"end":2109.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2110.1990937500004,"end":2112.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2112.88221875,"end":2114.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2115.9365937500006,"end":2117.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2118.0290937500004,"end":2121.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2121.5897187500004,"end":2122.6865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2123.0409687500005,"end":2124.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2124.64409375,"end":2126.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2127.41159375,"end":2132.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2133.25034375,"end":2134.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2134.8534687500005,"end":2137.8065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2138.1609687500004,"end":2139.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2140.1522187500004,"end":2142.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2143.2403437500006,"end":2146.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2147.12159375,"end":2150.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2150.5809687500005,"end":2152.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2152.9772187500002,"end":2155.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2156.68971875,"end":2160.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2160.4697187500005,"end":2163.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2163.5409687500005,"end":2164.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2164.53659375,"end":2170.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2170.8984687500006,"end":2174.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2174.96534375,"end":2179.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2180.01096875,"end":2183.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2183.75721875,"end":2186.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2187.06471875,"end":2188.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2188.2459687500004,"end":2200.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2200.5309687500003,"end":2201.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2201.72909375,"end":2221.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2221.8778437500005,"end":2223.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2223.8522187500002,"end":2229.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2229.7753437500005,"end":2231.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2231.5809687500005,"end":2232.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2233.04909375,"end":2235.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2235.51284375,"end":2237.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2237.6053437500004,"end":2240.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2240.52471875,"end":2254.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2254.5984687500004,"end":2256.1003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2256.7078437500004,"end":2257.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2258.05784375,"end":2259.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2260.11659375,"end":2263.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2263.4747187500006,"end":2265.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2266.1072187500004,"end":2267.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2268.0478437500005,"end":2273.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2273.43096875,"end":2274.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2274.57846875,"end":2277.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2277.4978437500004,"end":2279.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2280.13034375,"end":2286.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2286.6103437500005,"end":2297.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2303.6709687500006,"end":2323.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2329.5065937500003,"end":2331.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2331.6159687500003,"end":2331.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2331.6834687500004,"end":2332.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2340.22221875,"end":2341.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2341.16721875,"end":2341.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2342.2809687500003,"end":2348.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2348.2547187500004,"end":2348.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2348.28846875,"end":2348.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2348.3222187500005,"end":2348.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2349.2334687500006,"end":2352.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2354.5997187500006,"end":2359.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2359.13909375,"end":2359.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2359.49346875,"end":2361.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2361.43409375,"end":2361.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2361.5690937500003,"end":2361.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2361.83909375,"end":2361.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2362.7165937500004,"end":2364.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2364.3028437500006,"end":2364.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2364.97784375,"end":2374.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2375.0859687500006,"end":2377.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2377.3640937500004,"end":2381.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2382.4940937500005,"end":2395.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2395.7578437500006,"end":2402.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2403.06471875,"end":2409.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2409.3590937500003,"end":2409.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2409.7809687500003,"end":2409.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2409.9665937500004,"end":2410.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2411.4684687500003,"end":2416.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2416.4803437500004,"end":2418.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2419.5009687500005,"end":2422.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2423.4834687500006,"end":2425.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2425.8965937500006,"end":2430.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2431.21221875,"end":2440.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2440.61159375,"end":2442.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2443.26096875,"end":2444.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2445.08346875,"end":2445.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2447.2097187500003,"end":2452.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2453.1159687500003,"end":2454.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2455.27596875,"end":2458.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2458.34721875,"end":2461.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2462.31284375,"end":2463.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2464.60784375,"end":2467.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2467.6453437500004,"end":2468.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2469.3497187500006,"end":2471.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2472.08346875,"end":2478.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2478.6140937500004,"end":2485.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2485.76909375,"end":2494.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2495.1178437500002,"end":2497.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2497.98659375,"end":2501.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2501.96909375,"end":2504.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2505.0234687500006,"end":2506.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2507.03159375,"end":2518.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2519.0634687500005,"end":2535.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2535.0272187500004,"end":2584.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2558.09534375,"end":2558.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2584.77471875,"end":2604.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2604.0459687500006,"end":2605.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2605.39596875,"end":2625.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2625.76409375,"end":2651.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2652.46034375,"end":2679.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2661.80909375,"end":2661.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2661.97784375,"end":2662.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2670.01034375,"end":2670.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2670.0272187500004,"end":2670.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2679.39284375,"end":2679.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2679.71346875,"end":2682.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2682.5653437500005,"end":2683.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2683.0378437500003,"end":2688.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2689.11284375,"end":2694.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2694.5128437500007,"end":2698.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2698.91721875,"end":2713.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2702.9334687500004,"end":2702.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2713.9697187500005,"end":2718.7790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2719.04909375,"end":2739.8728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2726.1872187500003,"end":2726.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2726.3222187500005,"end":2726.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2736.3965937500006,"end":2736.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2739.8728437500004,"end":2740.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2740.1765937500004,"end":2740.5309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2740.9528437500003,"end":2746.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2747.0447187500004,"end":2748.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2749.4072187500005,"end":2751.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2750.08221875,"end":2750.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2751.85409375,"end":2752.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2752.27596875,"end":2758.7897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2758.95846875,"end":2764.2909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2764.42596875,"end":2769.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2769.8934687500005,"end":2774.2472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2774.8378437500005,"end":2775.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2775.95159375,"end":2782.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2783.07284375,"end":2787.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2788.2703437500004,"end":2812.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2812.7897187500002,"end":2816.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2816.40096875,"end":2824.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2824.29846875,"end":2827.8590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2828.31471875,"end":2844.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2844.4978437500004,"end":2858.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2859.41534375,"end":2872.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2872.79721875,"end":2891.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2891.5790937500005,"end":2891.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2891.91659375,"end":2891.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2891.96721875,"end":2897.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2897.63721875,"end":2902.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2901.50159375,"end":2902.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2902.15971875,"end":2903.8640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2903.8640937500004,"end":2916.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2911.0359687500004,"end":2911.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2911.5253437500005,"end":2911.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2916.7734687500006,"end":2917.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2918.5115937500004,"end":2920.9922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2921.0934687500003,"end":2922.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2923.18596875,"end":2924.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2924.45159375,"end":2948.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2948.02596875,"end":2953.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2953.8984687500006,"end":2956.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2956.8515937500006,"end":2957.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2958.25221875,"end":2967.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2967.6178437500002,"end":2968.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2969.23784375,"end":3009.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3009.29909375,"end":3019.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3010.9528437500003,"end":3010.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3010.9697187500005,"end":3011.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3011.18909375,"end":3011.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3019.23846875,"end":3023.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3023.4909687500003,"end":3024.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3024.79034375,"end":3027.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3027.74346875,"end":3033.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3033.9197187500004,"end":3047.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3048.11159375,"end":3076.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3076.02284375,"end":3079.3809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3079.76909375,"end":3085.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3085.89471875,"end":3100.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3090.2822187500005,"end":3090.4003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3090.4003437500005,"end":3090.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3090.55221875,"end":3090.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3099.4453437500006,"end":3100.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3100.37346875,"end":3100.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3100.4072187500005,"end":3100.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3100.4578437500004,"end":3101.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3101.04846875,"end":3101.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3105.9928437500002,"end":3109.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3121.6865937500006,"end":3123.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3123.34034375,"end":3124.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3131.10284375,"end":3133.6847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3131.1365937500004,"end":3131.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3131.17034375,"end":3131.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3134.6297187500004,"end":3148.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3149.1590937500005,"end":3161.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3161.66346875,"end":3170.9109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3171.5184687500005,"end":3172.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3172.46346875,"end":3175.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3176.14221875,"end":3181.5759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3182.1328437500006,"end":3191.7853437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3192.34221875,"end":3196.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3197.75909375,"end":3199.9190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3200.72909375,"end":3203.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3204.34034375,"end":3204.7284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3205.65659375,"end":3232.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3232.4372187500003,"end":3237.3478437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3237.83721875,"end":3248.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3248.45159375,"end":3250.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3251.10096875,"end":3252.2653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3252.8222187500005,"end":3255.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3256.5515937500004,"end":3256.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3257.47971875,"end":3288.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3285.76221875,"end":3294.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3288.2428437500002,"end":3288.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3294.67221875,"end":3299.9034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3300.2578437500006,"end":3307.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3308.2734687500006,"end":3312.4415937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3312.9815937500007,"end":3318.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3318.9215937500003,"end":3320.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3320.9803437500004,"end":3321.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3321.7228437500007,"end":3323.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3324.62534375,"end":3326.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3326.14409375,"end":3326.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3326.38034375,"end":3326.7853437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3326.7853437500007,"end":3326.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3327.46034375,"end":3327.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3327.4940937500005,"end":3334.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3333.18096875,"end":3333.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3335.54346875,"end":3349.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3346.9678437500006,"end":3347.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3349.02659375,"end":3349.1784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3349.1784687500003,"end":3349.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3349.27971875,"end":3349.6678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3350.2753437500005,"end":3350.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3350.29221875,"end":3358.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3352.41846875,"end":3353.0597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3359.21909375,"end":3364.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3364.6865937500006,"end":3373.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3373.69784375,"end":3374.0353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3374.59221875,"end":3379.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3380.24534375,"end":3381.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3382.00034375,"end":3383.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3383.80596875,"end":3390.0665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3390.13409375,"end":3392.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3392.8172187500004,"end":3396.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3396.5465937500003,"end":3396.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3397.2215937500005,"end":3399.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3400.3434687500003,"end":3404.2247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3406.1990937500004,"end":3406.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3407.1103437500005,"end":3408.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3408.9665937500004,"end":3409.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3410.62034375,"end":3411.2109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3411.5822187500007,"end":3418.7540937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3419.14221875,"end":3419.5978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3420.3740937500006,"end":3424.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3425.14971875,"end":3428.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3428.7272187500002,"end":3433.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3433.9753437500003,"end":3436.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3436.0340937500005,"end":3440.1853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3437.3672187500006,"end":3453.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3454.4615937500002,"end":3455.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3455.9128437500003,"end":3461.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3459.03471875,"end":3462.8484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3463.3209687500002,"end":3471.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3471.80909375,"end":3476.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3476.8884687500004,"end":3489.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3479.3690937500005,"end":3479.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3490.0509687500007,"end":3504.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3504.76596875,"end":3504.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3504.9684687500003,"end":3527.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3526.6190937500005,"end":3526.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3527.9353437500004,"end":3527.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3527.9522187500006,"end":3528.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3528.03659375,"end":3528.2559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3528.2559687500006,"end":3536.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3528.69471875,"end":3531.2597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3536.1365937500004,"end":3536.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3536.40659375,"end":3540.7940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3540.7940937500007,"end":3541.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3541.0303437500006,"end":3550.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3546.0084687500002,"end":3548.7422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3549.5353437500007,"end":3550.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3550.32846875,"end":3550.3790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3550.3790937500007,"end":3550.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3550.4128437500003,"end":3550.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3550.4297187500006,"end":3550.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3550.75034375,"end":3554.4459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3551.2059687500005,"end":3551.9822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3554.90159375,"end":3582.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3582.62721875,"end":3590.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3590.42346875,"end":3591.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3591.5372187500006,"end":3599.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3600.83534375,"end":3601.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3601.8984687500006,"end":3623.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3623.8190937500003,"end":3625.5909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3625.9453437500006,"end":3663.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3664.3865937500004,"end":3670.7315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3671.9128437500003,"end":3711.2147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3711.3834687500002,"end":3715.1972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3712.6490937500002,"end":3712.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3713.05409375,"end":3725.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3725.96346875,"end":3731.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3731.98784375,"end":3734.7384687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3735.05909375,"end":3737.1853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3736.13909375,"end":3745.1672187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3737.4384687500005,"end":3737.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3744.94784375,"end":3744.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3745.8759687500005,"end":3765.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3752.10284375,"end":3752.4572187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3752.4572187500007,"end":3752.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3766.3790937500007,"end":3806.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3806.11971875,"end":3819.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3820.02471875,"end":3823.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3824.1759687500007,"end":3834.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3834.85784375,"end":3836.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3836.8322187500007,"end":3842.4684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3840.69659375,"end":3841.0509687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3842.94096875,"end":3847.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3846.4172187500008,"end":3848.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3848.6278437500005,"end":3850.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3849.6403437500003,"end":3854.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3852.4415937500007,"end":3852.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3854.02784375,"end":3855.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3855.9178437500004,"end":3855.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3855.9684687500003,"end":3856.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3856.0359687500004,"end":3859.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3856.20471875,"end":3856.2384687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3860.1534687500007,"end":3861.6047187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3861.80721875,"end":3870.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3871.0378437500003,"end":3877.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3871.5272187500004,"end":3871.8478437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3878.78346875,"end":3880.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3879.0197187500007,"end":3903.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3882.9347187500007,"end":3883.9978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3884.47034375,"end":3884.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3890.19096875,"end":3890.9334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3901.8515937500006,"end":3902.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3903.20159375,"end":3906.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3906.8972187500003,"end":3908.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3908.73659375,"end":3911.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3911.70659375,"end":3912.6347187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3912.55034375,"end":3918.6759687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3918.6759687500007,"end":3922.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3923.8903437500003,"end":3923.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3923.9072187500005,"end":3927.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3927.13034375,"end":3929.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3929.3915937500005,"end":3938.0147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3934.67346875,"end":3940.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3940.0059687500006,"end":3940.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3940.4615937500002,"end":3940.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3941.0690937500003,"end":3944.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3941.1534687500007,"end":3941.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3943.5665937500007,"end":3944.2753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3945.3553437500004,"end":3947.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3946.04721875,"end":3949.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3949.2197187500005,"end":3952.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3951.3290937500005,"end":3952.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3952.4765937500006,"end":3952.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3952.49346875,"end":3952.8478437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3952.8478437500007,"end":3952.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3952.91534375,"end":3954.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3952.9659687500007,"end":3953.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3954.24846875,"end":3954.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3954.2822187500005,"end":3954.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3957.4209687500006,"end":3958.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3959.1084687500006,"end":3962.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3970.6003437500003,"end":3976.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3975.4772187500002,"end":3976.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3976.8103437500004,"end":3977.8397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3977.8397187500004,"end":3977.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3977.8565937500007,"end":3977.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3978.6328437500006,"end":3979.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3985.93971875,"end":3992.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3992.5547187500006,"end":3993.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3993.5840937500006,"end":4008.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4008.7040937500005,"end":4022.5753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4022.9972187500007,"end":4055.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4055.7684687500005,"end":4062.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4058.02971875,"end":4058.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4062.48471875,"end":4069.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4070.14596875,"end":4074.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4074.83721875,"end":4078.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4078.7859687500004,"end":4081.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4082.32971875,"end":4086.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4087.1222187500007,"end":4090.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4091.12159375,"end":4093.6190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4093.8047187500006,"end":4097.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4097.82096875,"end":4102.157843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4102.47846875,"end":4105.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4105.397843750001,"end":4110.409718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4110.595343749999,"end":4115.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4115.7928437499995,"end":4191.831593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4152.61409375,"end":4152.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4192.05096875,"end":4221.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4221.936593750001,"end":4248.362843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4248.6834687499995,"end":4259.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4260.597218749999,"end":4262.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4262.68971875,"end":4269.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4269.878468749999,"end":4278.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4279.075343750001,"end":4279.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4280.526593750001,"end":4295.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4295.764718750001,"end":4328.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4328.82284375,"end":4373.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4374.840968750001,"end":4397.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4397.942843750001,"end":4414.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4414.80096875,"end":4419.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4419.9647187499995,"end":4423.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4423.66034375,"end":4428.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4429.14471875,"end":4431.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4431.372218750001,"end":4443.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4443.319718750001,"end":4453.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4454.59221875,"end":4551.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4551.70784375,"end":4552.112843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4552.36596875,"end":4562.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4563.11534375,"end":4568.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4569.20721875,"end":4572.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4572.7509687500005,"end":4586.470343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4586.77409375,"end":4590.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4590.655343750001,"end":4596.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4596.3759687500005,"end":4598.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4598.77221875,"end":4615.394093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4615.56284375,"end":4624.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4624.75971875,"end":4626.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4626.700343750001,"end":4628.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4628.6747187500005,"end":4629.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4629.95721875,"end":4632.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4633.484093749999,"end":4635.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4635.5428437499995,"end":4636.251593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4636.47096875,"end":4650.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4651.304093750001,"end":4654.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4654.79721875,"end":4655.894093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4656.38346875,"end":4657.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4657.952843749999,"end":4660.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4660.78784375,"end":4661.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4662.222218749999,"end":4663.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4664.02784375,"end":4664.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4664.82096875,"end":4673.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4674.186593750001,"end":4675.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4675.1990937499995,"end":4676.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4676.39721875,"end":4677.409718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4677.44346875,"end":4691.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4692.1415937500005,"end":4711.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4711.294718749999,"end":4712.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4717.50471875,"end":4720.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4729.57034375,"end":4732.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4732.962218750001,"end":4733.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4737.417218750001,"end":4737.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4738.46346875,"end":4739.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4739.6278437500005,"end":4781.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4781.663468750001,"end":4781.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4781.68034375,"end":4781.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4781.849093750001,"end":4782.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4781.88284375,"end":4781.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4783.5028437500005,"end":4784.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4785.089093750001,"end":4833.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4833.58784375,"end":4833.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4834.026593750001,"end":4844.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4844.3709687499995,"end":4846.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4846.42971875,"end":4847.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4848.10034375,"end":4857.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4857.7528437500005,"end":4864.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4864.0809687500005,"end":4864.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4864.300343750001,"end":4866.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4866.595343749999,"end":4868.282843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4868.55284375,"end":4871.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4871.708468750001,"end":4872.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4873.311593750001,"end":4877.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4877.73284375,"end":4882.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4883.16659375,"end":4885.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4886.03534375,"end":4907.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4907.702843749999,"end":4908.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4908.68159375,"end":4909.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4910.36909375,"end":4913.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4913.4403437500005,"end":4915.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4915.56659375,"end":4917.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4917.794093750001,"end":4919.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4920.1903437500005,"end":4925.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4926.33284375,"end":4931.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4931.22659375,"end":4935.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4935.934718750001,"end":4936.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4936.8290937500005,"end":4944.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4944.270968750001,"end":4952.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4952.8603437500005,"end":4961.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4961.97284375,"end":4969.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4970.12346875,"end":4972.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4972.958468750001,"end":4975.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4976.55284375,"end":4977.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4977.042218750001,"end":4977.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4977.80159375,"end":4979.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4979.30346875,"end":4980.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4980.24846875,"end":4981.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4981.7840937500005,"end":4983.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4983.825968749999,"end":4984.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4984.905968749999,"end":5014.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5014.50471875,"end":5020.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5020.51221875,"end":5022.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5022.75659375,"end":5032.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5032.47659375,"end":5033.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5033.944718750001,"end":5034.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5034.85596875,"end":5069.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5069.02784375,"end":5109.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5109.3759687500005,"end":5115.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5115.48471875,"end":5121.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5121.374093750001,"end":5146.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5147.142218749999,"end":5151.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5151.5634687500005,"end":5166.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5157.77346875,"end":5157.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5157.85784375,"end":5157.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5166.85221875,"end":5168.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5168.59034375,"end":5178.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5178.732218749999,"end":5187.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5187.507218750001,"end":5190.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5191.18596875,"end":5193.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5193.71721875,"end":5222.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5222.624093750001,"end":5230.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5231.2303437499995,"end":5249.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5244.3759687500005,"end":5245.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5249.573468750001,"end":5249.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5249.894093750001,"end":5249.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5250.231593750001,"end":5293.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5294.427218750001,"end":5294.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5295.10221875,"end":5299.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5300.0634687500005,"end":5300.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5300.73846875,"end":5306.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5306.3915937500005,"end":5306.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5306.475968750001,"end":5321.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5321.950343750001,"end":5322.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5322.085343750001,"end":5332.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5332.61534375,"end":5335.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5335.9228437500005,"end":5343.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5343.887843750001,"end":5344.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5344.84971875,"end":5346.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5346.267218749999,"end":5349.405968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5349.49034375,"end":5356.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5357.100968750001,"end":5371.157843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5371.731593750001,"end":5379.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5380.13534375,"end":5384.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5384.35409375,"end":5386.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5386.56471875,"end":5387.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5388.218468749999,"end":5389.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5389.3153437500005,"end":5392.673468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5392.909718750001,"end":5410.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5411.202218750001,"end":5426.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5426.5584687499995,"end":5427.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5427.233468750001,"end":5431.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5431.435343749999,"end":5463.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5464.206593750001,"end":5465.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5469.218468749999,"end":5470.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5471.243468750001,"end":5474.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5482.51596875,"end":5483.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5483.69721875,"end":5485.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5486.17784375,"end":5486.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5496.28596875,"end":5505.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5496.70784375,"end":5497.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5505.8709687499995,"end":5506.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5507.22096875,"end":5534.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5534.946593750001,"end":5551.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5552.327843749999,"end":5558.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5558.63909375,"end":5576.189093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5576.526593750001,"end":5579.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5579.715968750001,"end":5581.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5582.07846875,"end":5583.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5583.9853437500005,"end":5586.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5587.22534375,"end":5619.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5619.96284375,"end":5645.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5646.47346875,"end":5647.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5648.329718749999,"end":5651.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5652.042218750001,"end":5654.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5654.64096875,"end":5668.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5668.579718749999,"end":5694.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5694.38159375,"end":5696.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5695.64721875,"end":5697.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5697.604718750001,"end":5716.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5717.82096875,"end":5724.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5725.14471875,"end":5726.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5727.70971875,"end":5728.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5729.16096875,"end":5731.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5732.2997187500005,"end":5733.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5733.24471875,"end":5746.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5746.3397187499995,"end":5760.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5750.4403437500005,"end":5750.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5750.5584687499995,"end":5750.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5750.6259687500005,"end":5750.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5761.020968750001,"end":5761.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5761.864718750001,"end":5796.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5796.76221875,"end":5831.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5831.845343750001,"end":5840.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5841.177218750001,"end":5841.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5842.4090937500005,"end":5844.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5844.82221875,"end":5847.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5848.0790937500005,"end":5854.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5854.37346875,"end":5856.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5856.280343750001,"end":5860.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5860.85346875,"end":5880.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5880.39471875,"end":5891.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5891.65034375,"end":5892.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5891.86971875,"end":5894.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5894.97471875,"end":5935.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5936.385968750001,"end":5982.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5942.22471875,"end":5942.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5942.241593750001,"end":5944.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5982.96096875,"end":5993.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5994.216593749999,"end":5998.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5998.907843750001,"end":6024.220343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6024.72659375,"end":6025.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6026.093468749999,"end":6032.235968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6032.6747187500005,"end":6036.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6037.12971875,"end":6039.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6040.352843750001,"end":6041.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6041.888468749999,"end":6047.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6047.575343750001,"end":6049.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6049.75221875,"end":6050.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6050.96721875,"end":6053.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6053.31284375,"end":6054.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6054.882218750001,"end":6058.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6058.42596875,"end":6061.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6061.37909375,"end":6066.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6066.44159375,"end":6066.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6067.28534375,"end":6095.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6096.52971875,"end":6101.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6101.895968750001,"end":6104.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6104.8153437500005,"end":6109.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6109.33784375,"end":6130.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6130.9715937500005,"end":6165.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6131.005343750001,"end":6131.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6131.055968750001,"end":6131.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6131.241593750001,"end":6134.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6136.911593750001,"end":6138.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6138.34596875,"end":6138.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6165.599093750001,"end":6191.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6191.434718750001,"end":6192.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6193.1728437500005,"end":6193.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6193.66221875,"end":6194.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6197.138468749999,"end":6197.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6198.6572187500005,"end":6199.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6200.07471875,"end":6202.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6214.28346875,"end":6216.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6216.42659375,"end":6217.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6223.7840937500005,"end":6229.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6224.27346875,"end":6224.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6229.3865937499995,"end":6266.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6266.59596875,"end":6342.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6342.82034375,"end":6343.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6343.2928437499995,"end":6346.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6347.17409375,"end":6350.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6351.47721875,"end":6355.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6356.337218750001,"end":6358.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6358.75034375,"end":6379.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6379.89471875,"end":6384.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6384.99096875,"end":6393.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6393.4959687499995,"end":6407.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6403.6884687500005,"end":6404.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6408.092843750001,"end":6468.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6456.43971875,"end":6456.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6469.3153437500005,"end":6474.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6469.38284375,"end":6474.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6474.647843750001,"end":6474.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6474.698468750001,"end":6486.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6487.32096875,"end":6488.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6488.55284375,"end":6489.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6490.155968749999,"end":6493.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6493.9697187500005,"end":6507.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6497.985968750001,"end":6498.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6507.638468749999,"end":6508.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6509.17409375,"end":6519.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6510.47346875,"end":6510.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6510.591593749999,"end":6510.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6519.82221875,"end":6542.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6519.889718750001,"end":6522.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6543.126593750001,"end":6554.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6554.17971875,"end":6637.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6577.821593750001,"end":6578.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6637.03596875,"end":6637.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6638.31846875,"end":6674.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6674.903468750001,"end":6676.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6676.69221875,"end":6678.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6678.95346875,"end":6686.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6686.564093750001,"end":6688.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6688.3865937499995,"end":6709.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6709.395968750001,"end":6762.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6763.19346875,"end":6771.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6771.225968750001,"end":6771.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6772.120343750001,"end":6782.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6782.802218750001,"end":6793.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6794.73284375,"end":6795.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6796.15034375,"end":6796.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6797.567843750001,"end":6800.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6800.993468750001,"end":6804.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6805.00971875,"end":6805.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6805.060343749999,"end":6815.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6816.130343750001,"end":6818.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6819.083468750001,"end":6825.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6825.81659375,"end":6868.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6868.628468750001,"end":6869.657843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6869.894093750001,"end":6869.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6869.91096875,"end":6870.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6870.029093749999,"end":6870.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6870.2147187499995,"end":6870.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6870.77159375,"end":6870.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6870.80534375,"end":6871.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6871.1259687500005,"end":6871.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6871.311593750001,"end":6871.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6874.264718750001,"end":6875.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6875.2772187499995,"end":6875.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6876.94784375,"end":6879.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6888.979718750001,"end":6893.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6891.81471875,"end":6893.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6900.269093750001,"end":6928.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6900.792218750001,"end":6900.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6900.80909375,"end":6900.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6900.842843750001,"end":6901.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6928.686593750001,"end":6929.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6929.17596875,"end":6929.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6929.22659375,"end":6929.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6929.26034375,"end":6932.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6932.247218750001,"end":6932.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6932.567843750001,"end":6936.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6936.90471875,"end":6945.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6944.02596875,"end":6952.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6946.776593750001,"end":6949.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6951.80534375,"end":6963.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6961.913468750001,"end":6983.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6965.32221875,"end":6966.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6966.77346875,"end":6966.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6982.669718749999,"end":7007.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7007.948468750001,"end":7009.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7009.46721875,"end":7009.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7009.51784375,"end":7009.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7009.55159375,"end":7009.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7009.635968750001,"end":7009.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7010.17596875,"end":7011.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7011.62721875,"end":7032.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7011.694718750001,"end":7012.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7016.79096875,"end":7016.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7016.841593749999,"end":7017.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7027.00034375,"end":7027.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7032.56909375,"end":7035.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7035.032843750001,"end":7060.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7060.51409375,"end":7061.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7060.9022187499995,"end":7060.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7060.98659375,"end":7061.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7061.96534375,"end":7062.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7062.15096875,"end":7062.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7062.184718750001,"end":7062.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7062.20159375,"end":7062.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7062.218468750001,"end":7062.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7065.745343750001,"end":7080.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7071.263468749999,"end":7071.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7071.280343750001,"end":7071.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7071.702218750001,"end":7071.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7074.30096875,"end":7074.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7074.33471875,"end":7074.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7074.7059687500005,"end":7074.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7080.81471875,"end":7084.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7084.66221875,"end":7087.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7087.93596875,"end":7089.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7090.214093750001,"end":7092.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7092.559718750001,"end":7099.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7099.731593750001,"end":7108.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7108.9959687499995,"end":7112.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7112.48909375,"end":7119.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7119.6103437500005,"end":7127.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7127.64284375,"end":7130.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7130.342843750001,"end":7133.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7133.717843750001,"end":7135.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7136.2997187500005,"end":7157.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7157.764718750001,"end":7175.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7175.68596875,"end":7175.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7176.276593750001,"end":7176.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7176.310343749999,"end":7179.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7179.972218750001,"end":7180.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7180.967843750001,"end":7189.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7189.60784375,"end":7189.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7189.94534375,"end":7189.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7189.962218750001,"end":7190.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7190.02971875,"end":7190.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7190.046593750001,"end":7190.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7190.2997187500005,"end":7194.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7194.889718750001,"end":7196.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7197.184718750001,"end":7199.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7199.81721875,"end":7204.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7204.42409375,"end":7228.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7229.12909375,"end":7241.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7243.0340937500005,"end":7250.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7250.25659375,"end":7250.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7250.577218750001,"end":7250.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7250.982218749999,"end":7256.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7257.934718750001,"end":7268.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7268.0428437499995,"end":7268.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7268.73471875,"end":7279.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7278.032843750001,"end":7278.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7279.450343750001,"end":7281.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7281.036593750001,"end":7281.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7281.34034375,"end":7281.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7281.67784375,"end":7289.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7290.16596875,"end":7308.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7308.10409375,"end":7324.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7324.84409375,"end":7326.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7326.092843750001,"end":7327.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7329.501593750001,"end":7329.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7329.5184687500005,"end":7329.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7329.552218750001,"end":7330.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7330.14284375,"end":7330.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7332.11721875,"end":7335.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7335.5428437499995,"end":7339.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7339.98096875,"end":7376.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7376.565968750001,"end":7376.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7376.58284375,"end":7400.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7400.5115937499995,"end":7441.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7442.73284375,"end":7443.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7443.171593750001,"end":7450.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7450.69784375,"end":7454.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7454.477843750001,"end":7454.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7454.83221875,"end":7457.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7457.1103437500005,"end":7457.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7457.194718750001,"end":7489.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7468.686593750001,"end":7470.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7473.546593750001,"end":7473.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7478.946593750001,"end":7479.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7479.030968750001,"end":7479.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7481.12346875,"end":7481.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7481.17409375,"end":7481.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7481.5115937499995,"end":7481.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7489.763468749999,"end":7491.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7491.5184687500005,"end":7491.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7491.737843750001,"end":7495.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7496.192843750001,"end":7500.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7501.08659375,"end":7515.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7511.430968750001,"end":7511.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7511.852843750001,"end":7513.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7518.99096875,"end":7519.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7520.49284375,"end":7521.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7523.02409375,"end":7525.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7539.02159375,"end":7541.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7541.282843750001,"end":7542.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7549.51784375,"end":7551.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7551.981593750001,"end":7609.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7609.55909375,"end":7636.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7637.45346875,"end":7637.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7637.97659375,"end":7655.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7655.03721875,"end":7691.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7683.10034375,"end":7684.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7684.028468750001,"end":7684.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7684.5009687500005,"end":7684.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7691.841593749999,"end":7697.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7697.03909375,"end":7697.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7697.427218750001,"end":7697.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7697.747843749999,"end":7697.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7697.96721875,"end":7753.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7754.31284375,"end":7778.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7778.68034375,"end":7779.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7779.743468750001,"end":7806.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7806.827843750001,"end":7827.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7827.80346875,"end":7829.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7829.339093750001,"end":7829.845343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7830.25034375,"end":7832.376593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7832.54534375,"end":7835.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7836.15659375,"end":7837.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7838.13096875,"end":7872.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7872.420968750001,"end":7898.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7890.460343750001,"end":7890.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7898.847218750001,"end":7921.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7921.03784375,"end":7921.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7921.27409375,"end":7921.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7921.32471875,"end":7921.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7921.358468750001,"end":7921.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7921.5947187500005,"end":7922.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7922.3709687499995,"end":7922.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7922.387843750001,"end":7948.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7948.4090937500005,"end":7958.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7958.9559687500005,"end":7963.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7963.46159375,"end":7979.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7980.083468750001,"end":7984.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7985.280968750001,"end":7990.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7990.866593750001,"end":7998.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7998.645968750001,"end":8009.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8010.407843750001,"end":8013.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8014.45784375,"end":8014.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8014.8290937500005,"end":8022.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8022.52409375,"end":8027.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8027.7215937500005,"end":8041.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8041.356593750001,"end":8044.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8041.52534375,"end":8041.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8044.69784375,"end":8054.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8044.731593750001,"end":8045.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8054.82284375,"end":8057.235968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8057.235968750001,"end":8057.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8057.624093750001,"end":8058.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8058.923468750001,"end":8059.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8060.17221875,"end":8065.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8065.437218750001,"end":8067.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8068.3397187499995,"end":8090.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8090.952218750001,"end":8091.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8091.829718750001,"end":8098.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8098.66409375,"end":8098.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8099.25471875,"end":8105.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8105.92034375,"end":8108.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8109.21096875,"end":8111.607218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8112.2147187499995,"end":8113.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8113.395968750001,"end":8122.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8122.997843750001,"end":8125.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8125.61346875,"end":8127.216593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8127.739718750001,"end":8131.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8132.1103437500005,"end":8147.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8147.58471875,"end":8160.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8150.099093750001,"end":8150.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8152.815968750001,"end":8152.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8152.98471875,"end":8153.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8157.878468750001,"end":8158.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8159.7684687500005,"end":8160.122843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8160.81471875,"end":8163.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8163.548468750001,"end":8163.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8163.7509687500005,"end":8163.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8163.784718750001,"end":8168.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8168.27346875,"end":8170.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8171.04096875,"end":8173.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8173.42034375,"end":8176.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8176.23846875,"end":8178.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8178.972218750001,"end":8189.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8181.01409375,"end":8181.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8185.89096875,"end":8187.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8188.1522187499995,"end":8188.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8189.468468750001,"end":8204.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8204.01471875,"end":8204.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8204.284718750001,"end":8204.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8204.33534375,"end":8210.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8206.42784375,"end":8206.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8210.96721875,"end":8280.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8280.762218750002,"end":8283.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8283.20909375,"end":8283.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8283.79971875,"end":8284.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8284.035968750002,"end":8286.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8287.360343750002,"end":8297.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8298.02534375,"end":8317.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8317.92096875,"end":8340.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8319.76034375,"end":8323.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8340.617843750002,"end":8343.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8344.48221875,"end":8353.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8347.95846875,"end":8348.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8354.067218750002,"end":8356.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8355.36659375,"end":8356.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8356.68284375,"end":8358.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8358.015968750002,"end":8358.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8358.977843750003,"end":8358.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8358.99471875,"end":8360.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8361.087218750003,"end":8362.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8363.16284375,"end":8363.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8372.17409375,"end":8375.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8377.945343750001,"end":8379.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8389.15034375,"end":8391.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8393.06534375,"end":8394.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8401.75596875,"end":8402.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8402.565968750001,"end":8404.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8404.72596875,"end":8405.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8405.19846875,"end":8405.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8405.82284375,"end":8405.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8405.97471875,"end":8406.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8406.71721875,"end":8406.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8407.03784375,"end":8410.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8415.82971875,"end":8418.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8419.84596875,"end":8422.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8424.58784375,"end":8437.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8424.621593750002,"end":8424.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8424.672218750002,"end":8424.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8424.97596875,"end":8425.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8425.718468750001,"end":8425.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8438.020343750002,"end":8449.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8449.27596875,"end":8461.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8463.99096875,"end":8480.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8480.882843750001,"end":8497.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8497.454093750002,"end":8505.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8506.414718750002,"end":8511.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8511.477218750002,"end":8536.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8536.60409375,"end":8541.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8541.71721875,"end":8546.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8544.687218750001,"end":8544.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8546.324093750001,"end":8568.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8568.71721875,"end":8576.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8576.47971875,"end":8584.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8581.00221875,"end":8581.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8581.559093750002,"end":8581.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8581.67721875,"end":8581.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8584.57971875,"end":8584.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8585.47409375,"end":8588.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8588.984093750001,"end":8589.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8590.23284375,"end":8600.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8600.290343750003,"end":8606.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8606.43284375,"end":8607.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8607.934718750003,"end":8610.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8611.360343750002,"end":8611.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8612.085968750001,"end":8617.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8618.211593750002,"end":8632.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8633.31471875,"end":8633.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8633.331593750001,"end":8633.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8633.53409375,"end":8633.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8633.669093750003,"end":8634.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8634.52971875,"end":8636.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8635.137218750002,"end":8636.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8636.80784375,"end":8641.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8639.37284375,"end":8639.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8641.296593750001,"end":8643.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8643.64221875,"end":8646.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8647.01721875,"end":8648.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8648.417843750001,"end":8654.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8655.30284375,"end":8661.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8661.69846875,"end":8662.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8662.508468750002,"end":8664.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8664.077843750001,"end":8664.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8664.60096875,"end":8671.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8672.59971875,"end":8673.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8674.169093750003,"end":8674.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8674.18596875,"end":8683.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8674.202843750001,"end":8675.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8684.10846875,"end":8684.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8685.070343750001,"end":8687.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8687.16284375,"end":8692.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8692.49534375,"end":8701.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8702.097218750001,"end":8708.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8708.67846875,"end":8712.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8712.82971875,"end":8722.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8722.785968750002,"end":8724.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8724.22034375,"end":8727.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8727.325343750003,"end":8728.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8729.012843750003,"end":8736.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8736.94409375,"end":8739.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8739.289718750002,"end":8743.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8743.91346875,"end":8744.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8744.36909375,"end":8758.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8758.476593750001,"end":8771.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8771.94284375,"end":8774.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8774.49096875,"end":8777.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8777.781593750002,"end":8805.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8784.160343750002,"end":8786.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8789.20596875,"end":8789.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8798.655968750001,"end":8798.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8798.976593750001,"end":8799.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8799.972218750001,"end":8800.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8800.02284375,"end":8800.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8805.33846875,"end":8809.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8809.60784375,"end":8814.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8819.09159375,"end":8819.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8819.10846875,"end":8819.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8819.125343750002,"end":8841.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8819.20971875,"end":8819.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8824.440968750001,"end":8824.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8841.83909375,"end":8847.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8847.340343750002,"end":8859.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8847.441593750002,"end":8847.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8851.74471875,"end":8851.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8860.53659375,"end":8868.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8868.97409375,"end":8877.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8878.019093750001,"end":8895.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8895.737843750001,"end":8905.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8899.68659375,"end":8902.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8904.715343750002,"end":8916.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8908.49534375,"end":8908.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8916.91596875,"end":8932.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8919.86909375,"end":8919.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8919.88596875,"end":8920.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8920.08846875,"end":8920.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8932.879718750002,"end":8958.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8958.95159375,"end":8959.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8960.11596875,"end":8987.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8987.402843750002,"end":8990.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8991.26721875,"end":9010.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9010.909718750001,"end":9017.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9018.11534375,"end":9029.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9030.13034375,"end":9033.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9034.534718750001,"end":9047.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9047.410343750002,"end":9098.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9098.575343750003,"end":9100.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9100.144718750002,"end":9123.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9118.909718750001,"end":9119.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9122.706593750001,"end":9125.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9125.96346875,"end":9137.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9133.55721875,"end":9133.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9138.82221875,"end":9139.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9139.969718750002,"end":9140.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9144.35721875,"end":9146.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9147.90096875,"end":9148.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9155.055968750003,"end":9157.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9158.009093750003,"end":9161.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9166.29471875,"end":9267.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9267.39284375,"end":9276.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9276.67409375,"end":9341.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9342.149093750002,"end":9430.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9430.86096875,"end":9446.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9447.65159375,"end":9449.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9449.575343750003,"end":9450.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9450.73971875,"end":9462.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9462.315968750001,"end":9463.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9464.121593750002,"end":9471.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9472.32284375,"end":9476.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9476.22096875,"end":9481.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9477.58784375,"end":9477.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9481.45221875,"end":9482.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9482.44784375,"end":9516.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9516.55221875,"end":9525.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9518.914718750002,"end":9518.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9518.94846875,"end":9518.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9518.98221875,"end":9519.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9519.03284375,"end":9520.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9524.16284375,"end":9526.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9527.200343750003,"end":9529.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9529.832843750002,"end":9533.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9534.000968750002,"end":9535.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9535.941593750002,"end":9544.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9545.374718750001,"end":9547.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9548.14221875,"end":9552.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9552.41159375,"end":9556.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9557.54159375,"end":9557.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9558.23346875,"end":9560.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9560.579093750002,"end":9563.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9563.937218750001,"end":9567.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9567.34596875,"end":9568.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9568.35846875,"end":9569.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9569.843468750001,"end":9572.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9572.89784375,"end":9574.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9574.26471875,"end":9595.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9591.527843750002,"end":9644.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9645.257843750001,"end":9654.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9654.555968750003,"end":9713.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9702.76784375,"end":9702.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9713.331593750001,"end":9722.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9723.625343750002,"end":9765.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9765.88034375,"end":9783.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9783.480968750002,"end":9803.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9804.321593750003,"end":9837.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9810.700343750003,"end":9812.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9822.023468750001,"end":9822.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9823.289093750001,"end":9826.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9826.714718750001,"end":9826.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9835.793468750002,"end":9857.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9844.652843750002,"end":9844.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9844.66971875,"end":9845.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9846.914093750001,"end":9847.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9856.12784375,"end":9865.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9857.84909375,"end":9860.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9860.464718750001,"end":9860.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9866.35409375,"end":9891.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9866.910968750002,"end":9868.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9875.027843750002,"end":9875.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9891.66659375,"end":9938.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9938.258468750002,"end":9941.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9942.359093750001,"end":9953.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9951.57284375,"end":9952.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9953.26034375,"end":9988.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9988.765343750001,"end":9995.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9995.684093750002,"end":10029.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10029.92346875,"end":10131.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10132.000343750002,"end":10135.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10136.10096875,"end":10145.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10145.48346875,"end":10164.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10164.46784375,"end":10165.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10165.851593750001,"end":10167.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10168.028468750003,"end":10170.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10170.239093750002,"end":10183.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10183.87409375,"end":10185.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10183.992218750001,"end":10184.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10184.02596875,"end":10184.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10184.07659375,"end":10184.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10184.937218750001,"end":10184.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10184.987843750001,"end":10185.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10185.747218750003,"end":10186.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10185.93284375,"end":10201.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10186.962218750003,"end":10187.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10187.265968750002,"end":10187.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10187.29971875,"end":10187.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10200.124718750001,"end":10227.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10224.00284375,"end":10231.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10231.63034375,"end":10236.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10236.254093750002,"end":10243.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10243.76346875,"end":10268.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10251.69471875,"end":10252.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10252.09971875,"end":10252.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10270.527218750001,"end":10272.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10272.56909375,"end":10273.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10279.555343750002,"end":10282.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10284.094718750002,"end":10284.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10289.511593750001,"end":10291.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10291.60409375,"end":10292.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10292.97096875,"end":10293.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10293.13971875,"end":10293.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10298.60721875,"end":10300.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10300.39596875,"end":10308.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10309.05284375,"end":10310.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10310.453468750002,"end":10313.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10314.85784375,"end":10323.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10323.261593750001,"end":10328.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10329.35346875,"end":10330.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10331.14221875,"end":10335.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10335.83346875,"end":10341.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10342.44846875,"end":10345.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10346.19471875,"end":10355.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10356.657218750002,"end":10371.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10371.59159375,"end":10372.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10371.895343750002,"end":10373.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10373.07659375,"end":10374.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10374.578468750002,"end":10374.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10374.96659375,"end":10378.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10378.949093750001,"end":10380.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10380.24846875,"end":10380.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10381.34534375,"end":10381.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10381.68284375,"end":10382.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10381.868468750003,"end":10383.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10382.03721875,"end":10382.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10383.20159375,"end":10390.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10390.59284375,"end":10392.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10393.680968750003,"end":10398.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10399.18221875,"end":10399.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10400.61659375,"end":10409.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10407.97409375,"end":10411.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10410.184718750003,"end":10416.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10416.90096875,"end":10417.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10417.91346875,"end":10422.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10423.296593750001,"end":10424.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10425.996593750002,"end":10428.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10428.629093750002,"end":10431.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10432.105343750001,"end":10434.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10435.31159375,"end":10439.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10440.644093750001,"end":10442.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10443.344093750002,"end":10447.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10445.94284375,"end":10447.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10447.84971875,"end":10447.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10447.96784375,"end":10447.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10448.237843750001,"end":10448.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10448.27159375,"end":10448.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10448.524718750003,"end":10448.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10448.659718750001,"end":10450.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10450.33034375,"end":10454.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10450.347218750001,"end":10452.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10453.13159375,"end":10460.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10461.737843750001,"end":10464.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10462.26096875,"end":10463.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10464.57284375,"end":10468.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10468.99409375,"end":10470.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10470.917843750001,"end":10472.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10473.90471875,"end":10474.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10474.782218750002,"end":10476.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10478.629718750002,"end":10478.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10478.950343750003,"end":10478.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10479.878468750001,"end":10479.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10479.96284375,"end":10482.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10482.679718750001,"end":10490.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10486.898468750001,"end":10487.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10490.543468750002,"end":10493.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10493.20971875,"end":10493.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10493.26034375,"end":10493.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10493.46284375,"end":10506.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10498.42409375,"end":10498.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10501.360343750002,"end":10524.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10525.12034375,"end":10528.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10528.64721875,"end":10529.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10529.828468750002,"end":10533.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10534.87409375,"end":10543.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10534.958468750003,"end":10539.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10539.02534375,"end":10540.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10540.78034375,"end":10540.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10543.14284375,"end":10543.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10543.56471875,"end":10546.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10546.433468750001,"end":10547.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10547.95221875,"end":10549.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10550.753468750001,"end":10551.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10552.710968750001,"end":10555.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10556.136593750001,"end":10570.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10570.800968750002,"end":10579.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10570.98659375,"end":10572.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10573.180343750002,"end":10573.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10574.42909375,"end":10574.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10575.89721875,"end":10577.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10577.922218750002,"end":10578.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10578.124718750001,"end":10586.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10587.034718750001,"end":10588.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10588.418468750002,"end":10591.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10591.641593750002,"end":10599.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10599.72471875,"end":10603.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10605.10784375,"end":10610.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10611.081593750001,"end":10612.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10613.71409375,"end":10619.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10620.09284375,"end":10628.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10629.458468750003,"end":10632.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10632.64784375,"end":10636.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10637.69346875,"end":10638.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10639.515968750002,"end":10643.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10644.949718750002,"end":10648.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10649.13471875,"end":10652.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10653.505343750003,"end":10661.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10659.175343750001,"end":10661.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10661.85846875,"end":10661.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10661.875343750002,"end":10661.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10661.89221875,"end":10662.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10662.027218750001,"end":10662.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10662.972218750001,"end":10663.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10663.259093750003,"end":10670.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10663.27596875,"end":10664.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10671.730343750001,"end":10672.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10673.23221875,"end":10674.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10675.155968750001,"end":10676.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10676.60721875,"end":10680.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10681.16346875,"end":10689.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10690.57971875,"end":10694.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10695.22034375,"end":10696.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10697.110343750002,"end":10705.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10705.902218750001,"end":10709.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10709.41221875,"end":10721.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10722.473468750002,"end":10723.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10725.527843750002,"end":10727.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10727.384093750003,"end":10729.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10729.544093750003,"end":10730.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10730.45534375,"end":10731.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10732.446593750003,"end":10734.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10735.062218750001,"end":10737.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10738.234718750002,"end":10738.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10738.62284375,"end":10738.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10740.192218750002,"end":10740.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10740.20909375,"end":10746.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10746.030968750001,"end":10746.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10747.094093750002,"end":10747.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10747.12784375,"end":10748.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10750.60409375,"end":10752.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10752.91596875,"end":10756.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10756.76346875,"end":10759.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10759.71659375,"end":10760.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10761.52221875,"end":10762.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10762.63596875,"end":10766.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10767.715343750002,"end":10769.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10769.41971875,"end":10769.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10770.195968750002,"end":10770.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10770.21284375,"end":10772.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10773.13221875,"end":10775.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10776.16971875,"end":10792.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10778.633468750002,"end":10778.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10785.14721875,"end":10790.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10790.969093750002,"end":10804.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10804.249718750001,"end":10805.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10806.76409375,"end":10810.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10811.25284375,"end":10817.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10817.648468750001,"end":10819.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10820.618468750003,"end":10830.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10831.840343750002,"end":10835.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10833.780968750001,"end":10841.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10841.57721875,"end":10841.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10841.98221875,"end":10854.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10841.99909375,"end":10845.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10854.68909375,"end":10854.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10856.039093750001,"end":10856.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10856.055968750003,"end":10858.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10859.430968750003,"end":10861.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10862.316593750002,"end":10869.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10869.809093750002,"end":10873.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10873.89284375,"end":10888.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10888.65846875,"end":10889.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10891.24034375,"end":10893.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10894.109093750001,"end":10895.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10895.99909375,"end":10901.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10901.601593750001,"end":10904.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10907.085968750001,"end":10907.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10909.43159375,"end":10910.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10911.65909375,"end":10913.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10916.839718750001,"end":10917.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10919.168468750002,"end":10922.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10936.27971875,"end":10941.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10940.565968750001,"end":10942.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10946.792843750001,"end":10985.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10985.68971875,"end":10990.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10990.81971875,"end":10991.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10991.680343750002,"end":11011.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10994.380343750003,"end":10994.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11000.87721875,"end":11000.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11000.97846875,"end":11001.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11004.083468750003,"end":11004.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11004.285968750002,"end":11004.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11008.555343750002,"end":11009.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11011.829093750002,"end":11025.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11011.84596875,"end":11011.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11011.879718750002,"end":11011.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11011.91346875,"end":11011.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11011.96409375,"end":11012.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11012.976593750001,"end":11014.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11014.410968750002,"end":11014.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11014.512218750002,"end":11014.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11014.680968750003,"end":11015.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11015.42346875,"end":11015.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11017.87034375,"end":11017.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11017.90409375,"end":11018.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11020.48596875,"end":11020.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11025.76784375,"end":11026.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11026.105343750001,"end":11029.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11028.585968750001,"end":11028.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11029.29471875,"end":11034.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11034.57659375,"end":11039.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11034.644093750001,"end":11034.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11037.69846875,"end":11038.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11039.554718750001,"end":11080.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11080.476593750001,"end":11087.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11084.20596875,"end":11084.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11084.52659375,"end":11084.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11088.171593750001,"end":11090.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11090.58471875,"end":11091.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11091.023468750001,"end":11091.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11092.137218750002,"end":11093.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11093.95971875,"end":11096.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11093.993468750003,"end":11094.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11096.035343750002,"end":11096.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11096.237843750001,"end":11101.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11096.49096875,"end":11096.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11096.507843750001,"end":11096.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11101.671593750001,"end":11102.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11101.85721875,"end":11110.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11105.65409375,"end":11106.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11110.21034375,"end":11158.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11153.24159375,"end":11153.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11153.258468750002,"end":11153.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11159.29971875,"end":11159.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11165.003468750001,"end":11176.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11176.96784375,"end":11180.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11181.55784375,"end":11208.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11208.76034375,"end":11213.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11213.97471875,"end":11214.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11214.14346875,"end":11221.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11214.177218750003,"end":11214.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11216.792843750001,"end":11217.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11221.652843750002,"end":11222.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11221.88909375,"end":11223.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11223.37409375,"end":11223.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11223.880343750003,"end":11225.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11225.41596875,"end":11225.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11225.73659375,"end":11228.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11228.58846875,"end":11229.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11229.044093750003,"end":11230.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11229.06096875,"end":11229.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11230.714718750001,"end":11230.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11230.815968750001,"end":11232.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11232.520343750002,"end":11232.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11232.55409375,"end":11232.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11232.80721875,"end":11238.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11238.831593750001,"end":11239.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11239.067843750003,"end":11240.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11240.856593750003,"end":11241.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11241.02534375,"end":11244.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11241.04221875,"end":11241.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11244.94034375,"end":11245.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11245.29471875,"end":11248.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11248.500968750002,"end":11248.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11248.73721875,"end":11254.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11254.829093750002,"end":11254.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11254.862843750001,"end":11255.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11255.04846875,"end":11276.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11258.00159375,"end":11258.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11260.262843750003,"end":11260.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11270.370968750001,"end":11270.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11270.45534375,"end":11270.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11270.60721875,"end":11270.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11270.640968750002,"end":11270.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11270.65784375,"end":11270.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11274.42096875,"end":11275.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11276.294093750003,"end":11298.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11299.61534375,"end":11333.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11333.972843750002,"end":11353.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11354.340968750003,"end":11359.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11359.99409375,"end":11360.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11361.05721875,"end":11364.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11364.719093750002,"end":11365.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11365.292843750001,"end":11368.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11367.621593750002,"end":11368.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11368.735343750002,"end":11369.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11369.157218750002,"end":11372.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11372.54909375,"end":11372.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11372.59971875,"end":11372.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11372.66721875,"end":11373.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11373.207218750002,"end":11377.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11377.35846875,"end":11388.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11384.00721875,"end":11384.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11388.37784375,"end":11388.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11388.69846875,"end":11392.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11392.039718750002,"end":11392.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11392.140968750002,"end":11393.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11393.406593750002,"end":11393.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11393.44034375,"end":11406.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11396.055968750003,"end":11396.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11397.23721875,"end":11397.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11399.430968750003,"end":11399.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11406.332843750002,"end":11406.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11406.83909375,"end":11411.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11411.243468750003,"end":11411.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11411.51346875,"end":11415.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11415.242843750002,"end":11415.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11415.58034375,"end":11420.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11419.96784375,"end":11420.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11420.237843750001,"end":11422.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11422.49909375,"end":11423.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11423.49471875,"end":11423.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11423.528468750003,"end":11423.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11423.612843750001,"end":11425.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11425.55346875,"end":11425.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11425.992218750001,"end":11428.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11429.046593750001,"end":11431.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11431.577843750001,"end":11431.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11431.98284375,"end":11439.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11434.817843750003,"end":11437.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11437.754093750002,"end":11438.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11439.94784375,"end":11439.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11439.964718750001,"end":11440.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11440.133468750002,"end":11440.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11440.31909375,"end":11445.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11445.48284375,"end":11446.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11445.73596875,"end":11446.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11446.96784375,"end":11468.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11465.78346875,"end":11471.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11468.550968750002,"end":11469.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11471.16659375,"end":11471.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11471.53784375,"end":11472.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11472.887843750003,"end":11473.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11473.12409375,"end":11479.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11473.140968750002,"end":11473.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11477.680343750002,"end":11477.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11479.06409375,"end":11479.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11479.43534375,"end":11483.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11483.65409375,"end":11485.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11485.78034375,"end":11486.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11486.067218750002,"end":11488.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11488.547843750002,"end":11488.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11488.76721875,"end":11493.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11493.35721875,"end":11493.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11493.74534375,"end":11497.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11497.879718750002,"end":11498.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11498.099093750003,"end":11499.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11499.80346875,"end":11500.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11499.90471875,"end":11507.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11507.22846875,"end":11507.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11507.27909375,"end":11512.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11507.29596875,"end":11508.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11512.24034375,"end":11512.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11512.51034375,"end":11522.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11514.704093750002,"end":11515.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11522.09534375,"end":11522.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11522.247218750003,"end":11525.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11525.723468750002,"end":11525.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11525.74034375,"end":11526.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11526.077843750001,"end":11527.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11527.74846875,"end":11528.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11527.95096875,"end":11529.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11529.840968750003,"end":11535.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11535.629093750002,"end":11541.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11540.60721875,"end":11547.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11541.51846875,"end":11543.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11547.20534375,"end":11547.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11547.35721875,"end":11547.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11547.42471875,"end":11549.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11549.43284375,"end":11549.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11549.449718750002,"end":11549.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11549.669093750003,"end":11549.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11549.871593750002,"end":11549.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11549.95596875,"end":11549.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11549.972843750002,"end":11550.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11550.95159375,"end":11551.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11551.238468750002,"end":11570.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11570.94846875,"end":11576.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11576.129093750002,"end":11580.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11577.546593750001,"end":11580.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11580.887843750003,"end":11580.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11580.972218750001,"end":11581.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11581.02284375,"end":11581.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11581.309718750003,"end":11581.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11581.32659375,"end":11581.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11582.44034375,"end":11586.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11586.64221875,"end":11587.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11586.86159375,"end":11595.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11595.974093750003,"end":11596.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11596.007843750001,"end":11598.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11598.539093750001,"end":11598.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11598.79221875,"end":11608.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11608.57971875,"end":11609.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11610.149093750002,"end":11613.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11613.777218750001,"end":11615.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11615.29596875,"end":11615.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11615.734718750002,"end":11616.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11617.253468750001,"end":11618.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11618.687843750002,"end":11619.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11618.940968750001,"end":11622.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11622.92346875,"end":11622.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11622.99096875,"end":11623.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11623.09221875,"end":11627.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11623.125968750002,"end":11623.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11626.062218750001,"end":11638.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11639.157218750002,"end":11639.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11640.524093750002,"end":11641.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11643.93284375,"end":11646.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11661.027218750001,"end":11662.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11663.136593750001,"end":11664.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11671.33784375,"end":11671.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11671.77659375,"end":11673.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11673.97034375,"end":11674.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11674.628468750001,"end":11674.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11675.03346875,"end":11675.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11675.438468750002,"end":11675.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11675.472218750001,"end":11677.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11677.36221875,"end":11680.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11680.872218750003,"end":11682.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11683.707218750002,"end":11686.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11686.778468750003,"end":11688.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11689.461593750002,"end":11689.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11690.54159375,"end":11691.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11691.97596875,"end":11693.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11693.49471875,"end":11694.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11695.519718750002,"end":11698.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11698.844093750002,"end":11699.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11701.30784375,"end":11703.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11704.446593750003,"end":11708.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11710.42034375,"end":11712.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11712.141593750002,"end":11715.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11716.984718750002,"end":11717.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11717.76096875,"end":11717.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11717.777843750002,"end":11717.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11717.79471875,"end":11717.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11717.96346875,"end":11718.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11718.030968750001,"end":11719.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11719.161593750003,"end":11720.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11721.254093750002,"end":11722.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11722.958468750003,"end":11722.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11722.97534375,"end":11723.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11723.262218750002,"end":11732.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11727.599093750003,"end":11729.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11733.167843750001,"end":11739.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11739.597218750001,"end":11740.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11741.21721875,"end":11743.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11744.38971875,"end":11747.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11747.309093750002,"end":11747.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11748.28784375,"end":11749.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11750.160968750002,"end":11757.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11758.902218750001,"end":11769.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11759.391593750002,"end":11760.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11769.68534375,"end":11776.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11778.156593750002,"end":11779.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11780.62034375,"end":11781.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11782.61159375,"end":11785.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11785.868468750003,"end":11787.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11789.14221875,"end":11790.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11791.454093750002,"end":11792.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11793.124718750001,"end":11793.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11794.22159375,"end":11795.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11795.774093750002,"end":11797.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11798.575343750003,"end":11800.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11801.460968750001,"end":11801.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11802.692843750003,"end":11803.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11803.92471875,"end":11804.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11805.02159375,"end":11805.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11806.422218750002,"end":11806.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11807.046593750001,"end":11807.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11809.34159375,"end":11810.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11811.51846875,"end":11813.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11814.285968750002,"end":11814.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11815.821593750003,"end":11816.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11818.487843750001,"end":11822.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11824.039718750002,"end":11825.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11826.38534375,"end":11828.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11829.473468750002,"end":11832.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11833.01721875,"end":11834.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11835.008468750002,"end":11836.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11836.949093750001,"end":11837.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11838.88971875,"end":11841.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11841.809093750002,"end":11843.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11843.969093750002,"end":11845.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11845.234718750002,"end":11845.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11846.26409375,"end":11847.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11849.79096875,"end":11851.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11852.895968750003,"end":11853.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11857.266593750002,"end":11859.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11860.911593750003,"end":11862.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11863.39221875,"end":11863.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11864.286593750003,"end":11865.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11867.492843750002,"end":11868.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11868.84284375,"end":11871.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11871.812843750002,"end":11872.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11874.15846875,"end":11874.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11875.42409375,"end":11876.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11877.398468750001,"end":11878.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11879.44034375,"end":11881.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11882.511593750001,"end":11884.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11886.156593750002,"end":11887.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11887.77659375,"end":11890.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11890.965968750003,"end":11892.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11893.159718750001,"end":11893.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11894.020343750002,"end":11894.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11895.89346875,"end":11897.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11898.390968750002,"end":11898.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11899.504718750002,"end":11901.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11902.17096875,"end":11903.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11904.80346875,"end":11906.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11907.503468750001,"end":11909.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11910.254093750002,"end":11911.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11912.66721875,"end":11916.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11916.71721875,"end":11920.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11920.530968750001,"end":11921.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11922.62346875,"end":11923.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11923.56846875,"end":11925.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11926.977218750002,"end":11930.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11930.63909375,"end":11932.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11934.53721875,"end":11937.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11937.76034375,"end":11938.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11939.34659375,"end":11940.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11940.96659375,"end":11942.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11943.599093750003,"end":11948.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11949.52221875,"end":11952.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11953.67346875,"end":11955.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11955.597218750001,"end":11955.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11956.59284375,"end":11957.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11958.06096875,"end":11959.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11960.33909375,"end":11961.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11963.039093750001,"end":11965.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11967.224093750003,"end":11972.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11973.585968750001,"end":11975.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11976.30284375,"end":11977.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11978.41221875,"end":11979.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11979.559718750003,"end":11981.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11982.917843750001,"end":11983.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11984.79096875,"end":11985.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11986.461593750002,"end":11987.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11988.081593750001,"end":11988.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11989.144718750002,"end":11992.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11992.90784375,"end":11993.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11994.949718750002,"end":11995.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11995.03409375,"end":11996.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11998.493468750003,"end":12002.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12002.965343750002,"end":12012.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12012.85409375,"end":12017.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12017.629718750002,"end":12019.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12022.202843750001,"end":12023.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12024.480968750002,"end":12026.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12027.09659375,"end":12029.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12030.083468750003,"end":12034.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12035.63534375,"end":12037.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12038.284718750001,"end":12040.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12040.90034375,"end":12046.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12047.363468750002,"end":12047.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12047.987843750001,"end":12050.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12051.160343750002,"end":12053.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12054.315968750001,"end":12055.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12057.488468750002,"end":12057.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12057.79221875,"end":12057.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12059.665343750003,"end":12059.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12059.68221875,"end":12060.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12062.196593750003,"end":12064.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12064.42409375,"end":12065.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12065.099093750003,"end":12065.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12065.672843750002,"end":12067.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12067.02284375,"end":12068.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12068.997218750003,"end":12071.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12071.984093750001,"end":12073.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12073.90784375,"end":12074.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12074.954093750002,"end":12077.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12079.999718750001,"end":12080.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12080.97846875,"end":12081.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12081.231593750003,"end":12081.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12082.007843750001,"end":12082.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12082.024718750003,"end":12091.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12092.520968750003,"end":12092.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12093.820343750001,"end":12096.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12097.465343750002,"end":12100.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12101.785343750002,"end":12102.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12104.046593750001,"end":12108.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12105.953468750002,"end":12111.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12112.230968750002,"end":12112.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12113.665343750003,"end":12115.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12117.023468750001,"end":12117.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12117.25971875,"end":12121.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12117.36096875,"end":12118.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12123.368468750003,"end":12124.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12124.718468750001,"end":12125.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12125.950343750003,"end":12126.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12127.519718750002,"end":12135.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12129.96659375,"end":12130.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12130.03409375,"end":12137.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12138.134093750003,"end":12138.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12139.011593750001,"end":12139.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12140.00721875,"end":12143.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12144.68159375,"end":12149.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12151.364093750002,"end":12151.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12152.32596875,"end":12156.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12157.01721875,"end":12159.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12159.86909375,"end":12161.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12162.687218750001,"end":12164.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12165.03284375,"end":12168.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12169.808468750001,"end":12171.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12171.58034375,"end":12172.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12174.297218750002,"end":12176.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12177.081593750001,"end":12178.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12178.583468750003,"end":12178.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12179.69721875,"end":12182.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12183.831593750001,"end":12185.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12186.160343750002,"end":12187.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12188.472218750001,"end":12192.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12189.012218750002,"end":12201.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12195.137843750003,"end":12197.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12198.867218750001,"end":12200.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12204.469718750002,"end":12209.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12209.481593750003,"end":12209.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12209.987843750001,"end":12211.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12211.03409375,"end":12211.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12212.687843750002,"end":12213.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12214.628468750001,"end":12215.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12217.598468750002,"end":12218.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12219.37034375,"end":12220.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12221.226593750001,"end":12221.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12222.542843750001,"end":12223.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12223.67346875,"end":12228.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12229.02284375,"end":12231.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12232.53284375,"end":12233.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12234.13596875,"end":12235.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12235.992218750001,"end":12240.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12241.08846875,"end":12243.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12243.687218750001,"end":12245.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12246.62346875,"end":12249.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12250.605968750002,"end":12251.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12251.51721875,"end":12252.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12253.508468750002,"end":12255.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12255.68534375,"end":12257.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12259.17846875,"end":12259.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12260.140343750001,"end":12261.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12261.70971875,"end":12262.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12263.71784375,"end":12265.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12266.56971875,"end":12268.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12268.88159375,"end":12271.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12272.340968750003,"end":12272.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12272.94846875,"end":12273.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12274.14659375,"end":12274.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12274.16346875,"end":12274.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12274.534718750001,"end":12274.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12283.44471875,"end":12284.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12284.727218750002,"end":12286.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12286.85346875,"end":12288.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12297.02909375,"end":12297.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12297.07971875,"end":12297.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12297.315968750001,"end":12299.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12299.492843750002,"end":12300.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12306.124718750001,"end":12306.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12306.985343750002,"end":12307.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12307.00221875,"end":12307.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12307.37346875,"end":12309.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12310.10721875,"end":12334.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12334.559093750002,"end":12335.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12336.21284375,"end":12338.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12338.42346875,"end":12345.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12345.426593750002,"end":12345.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12345.44346875,"end":12347.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12347.215343750002,"end":12349.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12347.957843750002,"end":12349.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12349.577843750001,"end":12355.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12355.349093750003,"end":12355.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12355.61909375,"end":12357.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12357.441593750002,"end":12357.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12357.47534375,"end":12357.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12357.84659375,"end":12358.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12358.875968750002,"end":12358.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12358.909718750001,"end":12359.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12359.06159375,"end":12360.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12359.51721875,"end":12362.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12360.884093750003,"end":12360.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12360.90096875,"end":12361.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12362.453468750002,"end":12365.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12363.449093750001,"end":12364.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12365.44034375,"end":12365.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12365.980343750001,"end":12366.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12367.70159375,"end":12370.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12372.03846875,"end":12380.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12376.25721875,"end":12380.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12380.45909375,"end":12386.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12386.09534375,"end":12388.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12388.677218750003,"end":12414.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12414.495968750001,"end":12464.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12464.46284375,"end":12482.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12482.50221875,"end":12491.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12492.00284375,"end":12496.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12496.255343750003,"end":12497.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12499.07346875,"end":12499.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12500.00159375,"end":12506.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12507.207218750002,"end":12509.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12510.49784375,"end":12513.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12514.379093750002,"end":12528.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12528.773468750001,"end":12559.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12559.65471875,"end":12564.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12559.739093750002,"end":12559.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12559.92471875,"end":12559.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12564.83534375,"end":12567.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12568.547843750002,"end":12581.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12581.91284375,"end":12587.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12588.13971875,"end":12591.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12592.08846875,"end":12592.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12593.60721875,"end":12594.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12594.636593750001,"end":12596.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12596.45909375,"end":12599.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12596.543468750002,"end":12596.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12598.973468750002,"end":12607.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12599.648468750001,"end":12599.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12606.398468750001,"end":12656.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12613.92471875,"end":12614.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12614.02596875,"end":12614.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12620.15159375,"end":12621.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12634.934093750002,"end":12635.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12656.21346875,"end":12666.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12666.625343750002,"end":12696.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12696.46034375,"end":12700.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12700.66221875,"end":12704.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12704.93159375,"end":12706.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12706.56846875,"end":12708.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12709.707218750002,"end":12712.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12713.01471875,"end":12713.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12713.85846875,"end":12714.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12714.719093750002,"end":12739.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12739.79534375,"end":12741.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12742.17471875,"end":12746.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12746.86596875,"end":12748.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12748.637843750003,"end":12757.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12758.10471875,"end":12759.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12759.488468750002,"end":12764.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12765.462218750003,"end":12766.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12767.11596875,"end":12769.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12768.364718750003,"end":12768.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12770.136593750001,"end":12770.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12770.609093750001,"end":12774.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12775.114718750003,"end":12777.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12778.18596875,"end":12778.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12779.046593750001,"end":12789.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12790.04909375,"end":12792.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12792.85034375,"end":12800.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12800.64659375,"end":12819.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12819.816593750002,"end":12819.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12820.390343750001,"end":12822.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12822.90471875,"end":12823.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12824.237843750001,"end":12830.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12828.65909375,"end":12850.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12830.59971875,"end":12832.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12850.49534375,"end":12878.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12878.609093750001,"end":12912.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12913.152218750001,"end":12919.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12919.63221875,"end":12919.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12919.66596875,"end":12919.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12919.88534375,"end":12920.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12920.003468750001,"end":12920.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12920.070968750002,"end":12920.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12923.749718750001,"end":12924.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12927.293468750002,"end":12929.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12935.427218750003,"end":12936.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12936.827843750001,"end":12937.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12945.88971875,"end":12946.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12946.93596875,"end":12951.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12951.492218750001,"end":12980.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12981.175343750001,"end":12985.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12986.625968750002,"end":12988.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12988.887218750002,"end":12990.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12990.06846875,"end":12990.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12991.70534375,"end":12995.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12995.637218750002,"end":12995.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12995.65409375,"end":12998.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12998.15159375,"end":12999.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12999.687218750001,"end":13004.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13000.51409375,"end":13000.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13004.42909375,"end":13013.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13014.60471875,"end":13022.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13014.689093750003,"end":13018.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13021.23659375,"end":13025.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13023.02534375,"end":13023.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13025.590343750002,"end":13025.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13025.843468750001,"end":13038.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13039.47846875,"end":13040.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13040.879093750002,"end":13051.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13049.62034375,"end":13050.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13051.206593750001,"end":13062.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13063.086593750002,"end":13063.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13064.031593750002,"end":13064.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13065.550343750001,"end":13087.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13087.757843750001,"end":13089.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13089.664718750002,"end":13094.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13094.81159375,"end":13100.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13100.81909375,"end":13102.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13102.97909375,"end":13110.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13110.555968750003,"end":13111.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13111.551593750002,"end":13123.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13114.11659375,"end":13114.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13118.925968750002,"end":13122.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13122.351593750001,"end":13122.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13123.02659375,"end":13123.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13123.785968750002,"end":13141.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13129.439093750003,"end":13131.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13132.122218750003,"end":13132.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13132.965968750003,"end":13133.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13141.032218750002,"end":13154.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13142.280968750001,"end":13143.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13148.659718750001,"end":13148.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13150.634093750003,"end":13150.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13150.65096875,"end":13150.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13150.684718750003,"end":13151.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13153.485968750003,"end":13153.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13154.262218750002,"end":13158.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13158.059093750002,"end":13162.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13163.40846875,"end":13182.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13168.808468750001,"end":13170.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13171.305968750003,"end":13173.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13181.565968750001,"end":13188.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13187.99534375,"end":13190.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13190.813468750002,"end":13190.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13190.965343750002,"end":13194.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13191.285968750002,"end":13191.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13195.234718750002,"end":13211.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13195.437218750001,"end":13199.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13203.047843750002,"end":13204.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13204.92096875,"end":13205.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13211.738468750002,"end":13218.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13218.285968750002,"end":13223.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13224.20909375,"end":13228.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13228.360343750002,"end":13235.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13232.562218750001,"end":13238.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13238.97471875,"end":13240.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13239.750968750002,"end":13252.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13243.429718750001,"end":13244.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13251.68159375,"end":13253.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13253.622218750003,"end":13270.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13253.63909375,"end":13253.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13256.59221875,"end":13256.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13257.621593750002,"end":13258.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13265.60346875,"end":13266.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13267.51034375,"end":13268.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13270.024718750003,"end":13270.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13270.21034375,"end":13271.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13271.03721875,"end":13271.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13272.657218750002,"end":13282.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13275.99846875,"end":13276.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13284.452843750001,"end":13295.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13287.102218750002,"end":13288.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13289.54909375,"end":13289.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13295.843468750001,"end":13316.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13316.76846875,"end":13316.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13316.97096875,"end":13324.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13324.024718750003,"end":13324.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13326.62346875,"end":13332.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13329.863468750002,"end":13354.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13344.325343750003,"end":13344.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13348.155968750001,"end":13352.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13354.703468750002,"end":13357.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13357.032218750002,"end":13361.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13357.082843750002,"end":13359.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13362.11159375,"end":13362.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13363.090343750002,"end":13363.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13363.208468750003,"end":13363.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13363.714718750001,"end":13363.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13363.984718750002,"end":13376.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13366.17846875,"end":13366.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13367.39346875,"end":13367.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13372.270343750002,"end":13380.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13380.977843750003,"end":13408.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13388.16659375,"end":13388.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13396.890968750002,"end":13397.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13401.39659375,"end":13404.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13406.03721875,"end":13430.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13430.45534375,"end":13431.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13431.56909375,"end":13434.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13434.57284375,"end":13439.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13434.72471875,"end":13434.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13436.83409375,"end":13438.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13439.31471875,"end":13439.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13439.36534375,"end":13439.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13439.38221875,"end":13439.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13439.41596875,"end":13439.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13439.78721875,"end":13439.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13439.972843750002,"end":13445.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13444.292843750001,"end":13445.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13445.91284375,"end":13445.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13445.96346875,"end":13445.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13445.980343750001,"end":13445.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13445.997218750003,"end":13451.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13450.418468750002,"end":13454.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13452.98346875,"end":13454.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13456.155968750001,"end":13464.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13458.585968750001,"end":13461.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13463.547218750002,"end":13464.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13464.087218750003,"end":13466.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13466.972843750002,"end":13467.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13467.64784375,"end":13467.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13467.968468750001,"end":13468.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13468.019093750001,"end":13476.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13475.59596875,"end":13496.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13496.774093750002,"end":13501.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13501.43159375,"end":13511.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13512.51846875,"end":13525.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13516.551593750002,"end":13518.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13523.622218750003,"end":13533.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13526.81159375,"end":13526.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13534.050968750002,"end":13548.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13542.977843750003,"end":13554.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13550.571593750003,"end":13550.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13554.030968750001,"end":13568.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13568.99909375,"end":13584.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13584.642218750003,"end":13588.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13585.519718750002,"end":13588.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13588.911593750003,"end":13595.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13596.640343750001,"end":13603.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13600.42034375,"end":13600.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13601.719718750002,"end":13624.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13608.030968750001,"end":13608.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13616.907218750002,"end":13617.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13621.159718750001,"end":13663.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13662.13221875,"end":13695.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13691.76471875,"end":13702.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13704.184718750003,"end":13710.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13707.05346875,"end":13710.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13710.68159375,"end":13717.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13717.887218750002,"end":13728.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13725.379718750002,"end":13744.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13744.937843750002,"end":13766.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13751.65409375,"end":13754.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13759.09596875,"end":13759.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13764.79971875,"end":13768.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13768.309718750003,"end":13780.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13771.988468750002,"end":13774.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13780.30784375,"end":13780.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13780.898468750001,"end":13781.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13781.337218750003,"end":13819.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13819.677218750003,"end":13822.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13820.774093750002,"end":13821.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13821.75284375,"end":13822.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13822.64721875,"end":13823.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13823.59221875,"end":13833.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13834.004093750002,"end":13836.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13836.434093750002,"end":13841.142218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13841.68221875,"end":13845.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13845.52971875,"end":13855.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13846.356593750003,"end":13846.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13847.099093750003,"end":13847.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13847.132843750001,"end":13847.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13847.504093750002,"end":13847.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13847.90909375,"end":13848.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13848.077843750001,"end":13848.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13848.297218750002,"end":13848.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13855.536593750003,"end":13855.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13855.55346875,"end":13856.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13859.56971875,"end":13879.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13881.91221875,"end":13968.329093750002}],"whisperx":[{"start":1671.568,"end":1691.453,"text":"報告委員會初席委員11人已足法定人數我們現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國115年3月30日星期一上午9時至12時21分"},{"start":1693.573,"end":1716.179,"text":"地點紅樓森林一會議室出席委員陳俊宇等13人列席委員賴世寶等5人請教委員黃仁列席人員國防部部長顧立雄及所屬人員主席馬昭吉委員文君報告事項一宣讀上次會議意思錄決定確定二邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告國軍年度軍事投資計畫與財政負擔能力之動態平衡評估並被質詢國防部部長顧立雄委員"},{"start":1722.475,"end":1751.152,"text":"國防部部長顧立雄報告委員陳俊宇等15人質詢均由國防部部長顧立雄全民防衛動員署署長廖建新軍備局局長林文祥主計局局長謝祺賢後備指揮部參謀長薛淵泉及憲兵指揮部參謀長文念中等即席答覆決定已登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及巡大結束二委員黃仁所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報三委員所提書面及口頭質詢未及答覆或要求提供資資訊"},{"start":1752.693,"end":1759.297,"text":"請國防部於二周內書面答覆本會全體委員並赴資本會委員令指定期限者從期鎖定宣讀完畢請問在場委員對於上次會議事錄有遺漏或錯誤需要更正之處沒有那我們議事錄確定"},{"start":1772.761,"end":1788.792,"text":"請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告台馬ECA生效後資經貿效益分析及台土台博氣候防護合作成效並請經濟部財政部農業部列席並備質詢宣讀完畢現在介紹在場委員以及與會的官員首先介紹陳永康陳委員王逸川王委員"},{"start":1803.324,"end":1824.582,"text":"還有今天出席的官員外交部林佳龍林部長亞東太平洋司林昭宏林司長亞西及非洲司嚴嘉良嚴司長歐洲司黃君耀黃司長北美司王良玉王司長"},{"start":1826.724,"end":1838.894,"text":"拉美及加勒比海司韓志正韓司長條約法律司許博義許副司長國際組織司孫簡元孫司長國際合作及經濟事務司葉志誠葉司長國際傳播司張秀珍張司長人事處張書豪張副處長"},{"start":1853.356,"end":1878.107,"text":"公眾外交協調會蕭光偉 蕭執行長台灣日本關係協會洪英傑 洪秘書長領事事務局鄭正勇 鄭局長財團法人國際合作發展基金會李志宏 李副秘書長經濟部政務次長江文若 江政次"},{"start":1880.76,"end":1899.376,"text":"財政部常務次長謝林源 謝長賜官務署趙台安 趙副署長農業部常務次長杜文珍 杜長賜國際事務司溫祖康 溫司長漁業署陳芬蘭 陳芬蘭主任秘書"},{"start":1907.91,"end":1910.812,"text":"農糧署張耿勳張專門委員本日會議邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告台馬ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台土台博氣候防護合作成效並備質詢現在請林部長上台報告"},{"start":1941.755,"end":1957.442,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生大家早安感謝邀請外交部就台馬經濟合作協定生效後之經濟效益分析及台土台博氣候防護合作成效進行專題報告報告的書面資料請參閱以下進行重點的報告"},{"start":1964.537,"end":1981.196,"text":"那首先呢本次委員關切的重點主要是我國與太平洋友邦在經貿與氣候方面的合作那這確實是當前島國友邦高度關切的議題島國的永續發展人民生計以及經濟韌性的"},{"start":1983.118,"end":2003.742,"text":"等都是與區域的情勢連動那我國在太平洋的三個友邦 帛琉 馬紹爾群島及圖瓦魯也都面臨了這些內憂外患那殷切期盼透過與我在氣候行動及經濟共融方面深化合作以強化國家韌性 同時共同抵禦威權國家的擴張"},{"start":2006.483,"end":2016.736,"text":"那麼為因應友邦破戒的需求外交部在上年期推動龍邦計畫判輸出台灣優勢領域的智慧解決方案以台灣經驗來協助友國我們島國友邦強化經濟的體質"},{"start":2023.134,"end":2042.049,"text":"那麼在我國幫助太平洋友邦經貿合作大致可以分為以下的四個部分那第一是循序落實台馬經濟合作協定那外交部已經著手規劃在本年上半年由外交部經濟部國貿署等相關部會共同率團"},{"start":2043.63,"end":2063.662,"text":"包括企業界一起赴馬紹爾群島來訪問相信雙方面可以在漁業、食品加工、航運觀光、醫療及器材、私通訊科技、海水氮化等領域媒合潛在貿易商機其後續召開兩國經貿部長級會議確立實成第二是有關於深化、帛琉經濟韌性的合作"},{"start":2073.417,"end":2091.876,"text":"自從上任以來本人已經兩度率領龍幫經貿團赴帛琉考察兩國政府也在聯合政府大樓光電儲能建置電動巴士建置以及保利碼零碳船等重大合作案達致共識在積極的推動中"},{"start":2092.977,"end":2113.687,"text":"第三是延伸台土共融的合作框架我國與圖瓦魯國在上年11月簽署了團結共融條約確立制度性的框架本年今年3月擔任特使團赴圖瓦魯訪問期間也代表我國簽署了台土避免雙重課稅"},{"start":2115.97,"end":2137.316,"text":"及防渡逃稅協定為台商富土投資奠定良好的基礎第四是成立龍幫經貿辦事處來協助友邦的經濟發展之前所述具體的案例顯示我國與太平洋友邦的合作由單一計畫的推動逐步擴展到制度化經貿協作以及產業佈局的階段"},{"start":2140.177,"end":2155.585,"text":"因此外交部規劃設立農幫經貿辦事處以補足並強化整體對外經貿推動的能量期盼從一次性的援助轉型為永續性的產業合作達成故邦與農邦的政策目標"},{"start":2156.718,"end":2172.467,"text":"那麼我國在太平洋地區推動氣候變遷合作呢尤其是在以下三方面有進展首先是捷徑能源我國自2010年起積極推動捷徑能源的計畫宣示借我國國產的相關應用產品"},{"start":2175.228,"end":2200.626,"text":"那三個友邦均可見我國的太陽能發電或除年設施另外外交部去年曾派遣專家赴帛琉考察完成了全國電網系統轉型總體檢報告供帛琉政府來參考未來將引入我國電動巴士充電樁及零碳船等智慧科技使帛琉成為區域綠色大眾運輸的示範國家那麼"},{"start":2202.33,"end":2221.288,"text":"我們也有成立了氣候調適基金我國在2023年跟馬紹爾群島簽署了氣候變遷調適應變基金的備忘錄部分基金已用於興建馬國馬酒樓市環礁海牆保障人民居住的安全我國也在同年"},{"start":2221.989,"end":2243.597,"text":"在UNFCCC COP28期間宣布成立了台灣太平洋氣候轉型基金提供融資或補助去年在PIF太平洋島國論壇的峰會期間我國更透過友邦宣布將要注資參與太平洋韌性基金這些都是我國支持島國氣候韌性的具體作為"},{"start":2244.917,"end":2266.308,"text":"另外就是在海岸調適方面我國跟土瓦魯政府共同推動了台灣土瓦魯海岸調適計畫填海造陸的工程之後促成了美國澳洲日本跟我國在2024年8月在土國合辦GCTF的氣候治理工作坊凸顯區域協作"},{"start":2268.549,"end":2297.038,"text":"最後要特別重視是有關經濟韌性跟氣候變遷已經是全世界共同面對的課題我國承諾協助太平洋友邦建構國家韌性的決心不會改變未來將全力推動榮邦計畫適時展示榮邦的時機並與理念相近的國家合作來強化友邦的韌性以維護印太地區的和平穩定與安全以上敬請各位委員指教 謝謝"},{"start":2304.037,"end":2305.599,"text":"主席 我們請林部長請林部長"},{"start":2340.53,"end":2363.826,"text":"部長好我們南太平洋這三個島國人口數都非常少可不可以跟大家講一下這三個國家大概有多少人?這個帛琉是兩萬人馬紹爾群島大概接近五萬圖瓦魯國是一萬人他們人很少"},{"start":2366.147,"end":2380.985,"text":"剛剛報告裡頭也提到他們的經濟韌性他們因為氣候的變遷會導致他們國內的經濟可能有時候就不穩定他們因為氣候變遷的關係所以他們的海岸線"},{"start":2382.54,"end":2410.097,"text":"也經常面臨很多的挑戰包括海岸線的內鎖所以台灣也協助他們在處理這些相關的工程我看你們的報告裡頭連台灣世西都請出來了那台灣世西要去帛琉看他們有什麼需要協助的地方就是協助他們有關國土規劃跟這個任性城市的發展好那現在問題來了"},{"start":2411.516,"end":2429.933,"text":"我們協助這三個國家可是這三個國家人口非常的少這三個國家也沒有大學他們最多就是台灣稱的叫做武專那他們有大部分的比較畢業後想要念大學的也有學生在台灣"},{"start":2431.294,"end":2460.883,"text":"那我們協助他們做這些海岸工程土木工程氣候變遷部長你知道這三個國家到台灣念大學啊有沒有人在念這些東西當然是有啊有嗎有些學院是有包含這些課程我是建議這樣請這個跟教育部啊就針對這些國家因為我們去台灣市區去協助他們了規劃完了假設當地也做好了"},{"start":2462.366,"end":2477.84,"text":"他們後面不能吃嘛不能吃,不能吃的意思變成我們又要有人去那如果他在地啊他在地說他到台灣來讀書的這批學生他到台灣就念土木工程"},{"start":2478.723,"end":2494.285,"text":"阿套台灣就念氣油變遷就是說他們現在接下來10年20年面臨的困境他們到台灣來我們的教育部就媒合這些大學就讓他們的學生來台灣就讀這些科系"},{"start":2495.666,"end":2517.881,"text":"這樣他們回到他們自己的國家我們幫他們做完的東西他們才能接上去譬如說現在要到柏柳做電動公車幫柏柳做他們新的那一棟行政大樓現在看起來就是那棟新的行政大樓行政大樓上面有太陽能包括你們在馬薩河土豹要跟他們做儲能的這些設備"},{"start":2519.107,"end":2522.569,"text":"那些東西你把它做出來,假設它開機啦,還是我們幫它開啦,東西給它了,它要人啊,最少也要有公司,有一組人,有辦法餵養那些東西嘛"},{"start":2531.863,"end":2548.862,"text":"所以這一塊部長有什麼看法這個委員有所言甚是這個學訓用要一致所以我們的獎學金制度也在進行檢討跟修正也就是說他來台灣念什麼回去才能夠繁榮他的國家"},{"start":2549.343,"end":2573.574,"text":"不過他念了完之後人口外移啊這些國家以後都沒有人才雖然來台灣念獎學金回去很多也是做到部會首長以上不過剛剛講的就是說我們現在要跟他們政府有時候發展農幫計畫這些所需要的人才培育學訓用要一體啦所以我完全贊成這個委員的見解甚至我們現在也有一些短期的課程"},{"start":2574.875,"end":2591.988,"text":"那我們所謂的莫奈總統的青年百億圓夢計畫我們有邀請他們來做很多跟專業有關的比如說籠幫裡面的有關於新能源還有智慧農業以及永續觀光所以學訓用要一體這個是我非常認同委員講出了這樣的一個我們其實過去獎學金制度"},{"start":2599.053,"end":2624.968,"text":"就是來啊唸什麼很自由啊來了之後大部分都沒有回去這個就是很麻煩啦所以因為我看到你們連台灣四溪都請出來了那台灣四溪是很專業的公司所以他去幫他整個那些東西對台灣四溪來說那不是困難的事情那即使工程都做完了真的你幫他這海岸線做這一個防止這個海岸線退縮的這些港頂海岸工程做完了"},{"start":2626.048,"end":2651.591,"text":"過三年五年開始出現要維養的時候啊他們也搞不清楚啊因為他就沒有一組人啊可能有幾個有來台灣讀書或各國去讀書他可能懂啦可是他沒有一組人去處理整個國家的這些工程的時候啊面對氣候變遷他還是面臨困境他一面臨困境那些東西可能就壞了那壞了之後呢又"},{"start":2652.552,"end":2669.316,"text":"因為叫他的友邦去幫他倒三天那這個其實是划不來啦這一塊再請這個因為我們現在總和外交嘛部長再跟這個教育部看有沒有一些學校因為我看包括一個國家有跟這個原治大學"},{"start":2670.016,"end":2696.591,"text":"他們的課程裡頭有氣候變遷的那這個都是對這些國家是有幫助的啊不然我怕說電動公車啊你叫台灣的青雙上二十台去啊電動公車派去要收你啊你說台灣的公司又派人去啊那不是長遠之計啊那與其如此如果他們的高中畢業生到台灣來就在台灣的這個電動公車的工廠啊"},{"start":2699.048,"end":2718.209,"text":"做了兩三年,回去可能就裝甲了他回去,他要另外開一間公司,或是他們政府的公司他就在裡面,附近餵養這些東西我覺得這才是長遠之旅,也才會真正叫做榮邦啦我可以補充喔,巴拉圭跟我們台科大的合作,那在"},{"start":2719.35,"end":2738.235,"text":"台科大的這個在巴拉圭也有設立對等的學校就是採取委員剛剛講這個模式就是跟我們的它的科系跟產業的合作像電巴那在巴拉圭我們現在有輸出而且在地有我們的電巴公司啊有在那邊設廠那就需要很多這個維運的人才好"},{"start":2741.055,"end":2769.072,"text":"第二個啊,就這三個太平洋島國啊他們對海洋的保育啊,那是台灣對不對的我到這個帛琉去啊他們對這個生態的承載量啊,對觀光的承載量的要求啊一隻船出去載幾個人,配多少救生員每天都管制啊然後連用這一個防曬乳啊都只能用他們管制的防曬乳"},{"start":2769.972,"end":2787.013,"text":"台灣炸雞都不能買,那這種東西對他們來說很平常,對我們來說很稀奇你們連一天整個村子出去可以載多少人,你們都管制,因為他不想要大量的觀光客去辦"},{"start":2788.662,"end":2815.754,"text":"這個是他們的優勢那台灣台灣的這些大學有做海洋生態的這些大學的系所啊包括教授們包括研究生、碩士班、博士班也應該去這三個島國啊把他們做成啊就是說他們當成我們台灣這一批我們自己的人喔要培養海洋生態保育的這些人那裡是我們很好的基地啊"},{"start":2816.514,"end":2838.04,"text":"所以教育部也應該跟我們的海洋部各式各樣環境部、農業部大家整合起來說把這三個國家的海洋當成我們很重要的研究區域我們跟他們合作把研究成果給他們他們反而來協助我們做研究那這個對我們對台灣因為這三個國家看起來像綠島、蘭嶼、七美、望安"},{"start":2844.602,"end":2850.527,"text":"因為他們大部分就光光食品加工,農業,台北都是這些,因為東西連要賣來台灣也沒什麼好賣,我看你那個馬紹爾,每年賣到台灣的東西,補掉多少你還要記一下?"},{"start":2859.468,"end":2868.096,"text":"真的很少啦 因為他們產椰子啦 或者是這個茉莉果啦當然漁業是很大啦 不過漁業加工怎麼去加強剛剛委員講確實沒錯 這些海洋的島國 它的藍色的國土很大"},{"start":2874.682,"end":2892.216,"text":"所以對台灣來講是一個可以跟他合作之後去發展比如藍色經濟這個就是在永續發展之下怎麼樣去促進海洋國家的經濟因為有經濟才會帶動他未來的繁榮啊就業這個新的邏輯現在就是我們在推的榮邦計畫所以這個也請這個總和外交榮邦計畫的架構之下"},{"start":2897.957,"end":2916.036,"text":"請教育部啦 國科位 因為我們有一個海洋聯盟嘛就我們台灣的對 還有六所大學都有海洋的學院跟科系他們有一些有實驗船嘛 就到這些國家就是說這件事情 他們其實是在幫助台灣因為他們有很好的這個環境跟管理的制度所以這一塊啊 就是我們"},{"start":2918.621,"end":2948.021,"text":"用他們的東西啦所以這一塊希望我們這個國家告訴各位多給一些經費給這些海洋大學聯盟的這些學校系所的老師跟研究生啊能夠在譬如寒暑假或者是有半年的這種教育訓練的課程啊整座都給他刷去做這樣的一個研究其實對台灣是有幫助不只讓那個地方我們再融幫他他們也是我們很好的研究夥伴"},{"start":2948.701,"end":2967.034,"text":"完全認同委員的主張透過我們的邦交國可以走向世界其實我們以前很多人把它當作負擔其實不是它是甜蜜的我們透過跟它的合作可以變成跟它繁榮一起比如說我們很多海洋科學跟經濟的發展"},{"start":2969.315,"end":2991.485,"text":"我們可以通過那邊做一個類似一個樞紐然後往那個區比如說以帛琉來講它是第二島鏈那個地方的整個最關鍵的位置所以它的海洋國土其實是很大的那對我們人才因為台灣特殊的國際處境我們沒有辦法參加國際組織可是透過我們的友邦卻可以去跟國際合作甚至我們到它政府裡面"},{"start":2992.365,"end":3008.765,"text":"去就是說服務啊我們國會會有一些這樣的一個志工跟替代役我們未來也是在加強雙邊人才的交流所以柏油來講比如說明道中學就跟他們的中學啊已經建立姐妹學校然後他們也有社區大學他們其實很多的"},{"start":3009.406,"end":3030.53,"text":"大學是到美國去念 因為他們是COVA他們是美國的一個聯盟的一個協定的一個組織啦所以我們善用這些就是友邦12個邦交國可以讓台灣走向世界其實最好建議啦 你想我們這些國和會啊如果有一些研究計畫鼓勵台灣的研究團隊針對這三個太平洋島國"},{"start":3033.973,"end":3057.28,"text":"譬如說用永續海洋、經濟韌性、氣候變遷為題台灣的學生、研究生、教授們以這些為題在國際上把他們的名字包括伯留、馬薩爾、土瓦魯用這樣的一個研究名稱也協助這三個國家讓這一個國際上都知道這三個國家在做這些事情的時候他們做的是世界頂尖的所以就是說我們透過這個方式讓我們跟他們"},{"start":3062.882,"end":3086.695,"text":"是一個很好的夥伴關係就像剛剛部長講的是很甜蜜的這樣的一個關係那我想透過這樣的方式讓台灣的研究團隊也能夠一起融幫我最後再補充一下就是我們想台灣可以幫助後面還要再要一句我們的邦交博可以領導譬如說PLAO可以領導在什麼方面那Marshall Allen可以領導然後這個Towaru可以領導"},{"start":3087.896,"end":3101.743,"text":"所以他們會以跟台灣為邦交為榮因為他們不只是接受我們的援助而且我們跟他共同繁榮之後可以成為世界讓大家可以作為一個典範他們也會被關注啦對 被肯定好 謝謝部長 謝謝好 謝謝現在請王定宇委員上台質詢"},{"start":3122.038,"end":3122.699,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩部長 請部長"},{"start":3134.69,"end":3151.809,"text":"今天我第一個題目我們再來關心一下洪都拉斯的局勢啦是2023年的時候當時的洪都拉斯總統秀美拉在3月份這個秀美拉卡斯楚決定要跟台灣斷交當時在洪都拉斯的國會呢有一個國會議員"},{"start":3153.19,"end":3167.322,"text":"叫做托馬斯·贊布拉諾他當時的發言認為說跟台灣斷交是錯誤的跟中國建交是百必而無一利當時這個贊布拉諾提出示警"},{"start":3171.584,"end":3195.209,"text":"在2023年3月的洪都拉斯國會呢占卜拉諾國會議員這位議員呢代表的是親美派跟親台派不斷地立足但他失敗因為當時的選票結構當時的洪都拉斯當時的洪都拉斯的秀美拉呢一心一意就往中國轉那這一位占卜拉諾呢到2026年我們看2026年"},{"start":3197.813,"end":3203.281,"text":"前幾天3月份的時候他現在已經是洪都拉斯的國會議長是"},{"start":3205.708,"end":3230.023,"text":"他表達的幾件事情因為他來自於洪都拉斯南部的選區他說光蝦類養殖業因為中國的騙局就損失一萬五千個就業機會不只這樣子中國大量廉價的產品進入到洪都拉斯讓洪都拉斯原來的中小企業中小商業整個破產他還秀出一些信說中小企業寫信給這個國會議長說"},{"start":3232.665,"end":3253.857,"text":"中國的謊言讓洪都拉斯的人民非常痛苦所以他講了一句話他支持跟中國斷交恢復對台邦交國會會請全力支持他現在是國會議長我要問的第一個問題就是我們外交部有沒有計劃邀請托馬斯·詹姆拉諾來台灣訪問"},{"start":3257.562,"end":3283.416,"text":"因為我們跟宏都拉雖然斷交那只有三年的時間但很多的人脈我們都還是維繫所以都有持續在互動中那當然現在因為他們的阿斯福拉總統的政見有講要跟台灣恢復邦交那國會議長也公開的主張那確實他多數的民意也是支持跟台灣發展外交關係所以這些邀訪呢"},{"start":3285.017,"end":3311.364,"text":"適當的這個方式我們都會來做我們對非邦交國的重要政要其實我們都有在邀請歐洲的啦 南泰的啦我們都有在邀請那這一位托馬斯·贊布拉諾呢坦白講他的態度很一貫2023年 甚至於2023年以前甚至於到現在擔任國會議長他的態度對台灣是非常的友善那現在又貴為紅國的最新的國會議長"},{"start":3313.044,"end":3334.142,"text":"那我國外問的問題很簡單就是我們有沒有正式邀請他有機會來台灣走走因為我們現狀有在做這些事情嘛對這一位托馬斯我們有沒有邀請我們都有跟他我們都有跟這些政要溝通的就是持續維持這樣的一個互動他最近會來嗎"},{"start":3336.193,"end":3363.695,"text":"因為這涉及到我想包括議長跟整個他們政府包括總統之間他們怎麼樣去能夠來進行因為在很久的將來他們快休會了委員的意見我有聽到所以這邀訪是一個好的動作那你剛有提到紅國的民意很高他們現在親中派的國會議員一席都沒有當選"},{"start":3364.778,"end":3373.048,"text":"全軍覆沒這個我覺得對台灣來講是一個很好的警醒一席都沒有親中派的國會議員一個都沒有"},{"start":3373.786,"end":3399.113,"text":"那第一大黨執政黨跟第二大黨其實都是親美親台派那民意是這樣的態度那新任的總統選前選後也表達認為跟台灣合作是正確的加上美國的台北法案把他們的外交工具特別在中南美洲是跟台灣的外交是綁在一起的那總統的態度很明確那加上國會議長"},{"start":3400.433,"end":3418.502,"text":"我們跟紅國目前官方的接觸到什麼程度都有管道可以溝通所以當然這個總統有他整個處理外交事務的一個方向跟節奏"},{"start":3420.781,"end":3438.614,"text":"當然議長包括他們副總統也都是很正面的表達那是跟台灣的外交的關係可是這裡面也涉及到我想中共可能的一些經濟脅迫或者是在對他們內政的操弄還有包括像華為這些長期已經"},{"start":3441.397,"end":3453.513,"text":"可以說深入到他社會的這些勢力那這個當然就是很複雜的情形包括他們商界雖然大多數人是主張跟台灣恢復邦交"},{"start":3454.537,"end":3476.01,"text":"可是也有一些可能有跟中國在做生意的他們的經濟有的是綁個人那國家受害個人未必受害這個我們可以理解某一些特殊狀況那我最後有關這個題目要問的是我們有沒有agenda我們有沒有什麼樣的進程在處理我們對外關係尤其紅國這個事情"},{"start":3476.93,"end":3504.084,"text":"紅國不是只有紅國 旁邊薩爾瓦多啦等等其實它是一個區域包含川普總統對中南美洲他現在所謂的唐羅主義他們有一些想法然後Rubio也針對洪都拉斯跟我們國家的關係也發表過樂見的談話我請教我們外交部 你可以不揭露細節但我要請問外交部 我們現在跟洪都拉斯的互動有沒有一個進程 有一個agenda在那邊在進行"},{"start":3504.844,"end":3527.709,"text":"我想自從在選舉到選後我們都有保持溝通跟他們的政府就是對現在的政府 先前是在野黨包括行政跟國會的部門我們都有很多的友人我們也有管道跟他們溝通你們有沒有一個進度"},{"start":3528.889,"end":3554.071,"text":"因為這個外交這種事情我們是開放的態度而對方因為他對方已經講得很明顯了事實上你委員提到其實美國現在川普政府的西半球政策也是鼓勵而且這不是單獨只有宏都拉斯包括周邊國家尤其是中美洲這個是一個區域性的整個外交政策的一個變化這個可能不只牽涉到拉美中南美洲"},{"start":3555.012,"end":3581.757,"text":"可能連南泰這個局勢都會有影響所以身為我們國家外交部長這一個我不會把它視為骨牌但它是一個國際氛圍的改變掌握得好我們國家會在這裡面外交上會有一些正向的發展所以我不逼問細節因為細節外交總是有很多我們不見得要掀鍋蓋但我希望我們外交部是有一個進程在推進當中那我們"},{"start":3582.717,"end":3599.518,"text":"拉美斯這些負責的同仁也辛苦因為這一塊永遠是最激烈的角力當中我第二個問題要請教的是中國很幼稚就是你跟他好我就不跟你好那個真的很像幼兒園就是中國去"},{"start":3600.925,"end":3624.406,"text":"制裁古屋奎斯他是日華肯的會長而且古屋奎斯跟台灣的友好不是近幾年是很長期了那如果再加上石屏參議員啊閻其茂他們之前的參謀總長或者是巴韓高市早苗或者已經不幸過世的安倍或者他的弟弟岸信夫中國對於"},{"start":3626.047,"end":3646.997,"text":"凡是跟台灣友好往來的人他想要用長臂管轄長臂管轄另外一個名詞叫什麼呢干涉他國內政他就直接去制裁啦 處理當然古巫歸世有表達說我根本我又不去中國這個制裁對他無效但他們有很多經濟很多假錯訊息個人侮辱的方式去處理這個事情"},{"start":3647.737,"end":3670.318,"text":"那用這種幼稚粗魯的方式介入他國內政介入我國跟其他國際友人正常的往來那你身為我們國家的發言人國家的外交部長那對這件事情你的看法還有我們有沒有更具體的做法去讓這些友人感受到我們台灣的溫暖"},{"start":3672.14,"end":3688.872,"text":"報告委員我們在外交部第一時間當然也有對外表示對中共的戰狼外交或針對個人這種跨境所謂的長臂管轄甚至干涉內政我們是表達抗議也跟國務規師議員方面我們也有表達對他的支持"},{"start":3701.661,"end":3725.674,"text":"那中共他的外交有時候為什麼很不理性在很多人看來包括他對Marco Rubio也是列為制裁對象他不是罵Rubio 他是制裁Rubio然後現在為了Rubio要陪川普去中國把那個Rubio的魯改一個中文字就好像是兩個人就是幼稚又粗魯的外交手法"},{"start":3726.935,"end":3744.231,"text":"確實剛才委員講到他其實對這些民主國家他比較難為所欲為但是對一些國家他是完全去介入人家國家的外交他干涉內政我是建議我們外交部我昨天有注意到你們對古屋歸斯的聲援對中國的欠責"},{"start":3746.27,"end":3765.502,"text":"試試看能不能把這些被中國莫名其妙制裁的國際友人來台灣辦個研討會 都接來啦你坐下都在這裡讓國際看到一個正常的國際往來台灣一個真實的存在台灣友好的跟這些國際友人的互動我們沒有傷害任何人欸"},{"start":3766.423,"end":3791.036,"text":"台灣沒有做錯任何事情我們買武器保護自己是因為有人威脅我們有盜匪在我們門口我們跟國際友人交往我們善盡地球村的義務台灣沒有做錯任何事情而我們國內的內部親中共的人士包含中國動輒把這些行動怎麼挑釁好像我們做錯事情一樣那個是根本是顛倒是非所以我建議外交部這邊的聲援更大一點"},{"start":3791.596,"end":3818.739,"text":"甚至透過活動的方式展現出台灣在國際真實存在善盡責任以及這些國際友人對我們的支持這個我是覺得可以多做一些啦那我最後只請教一個問題我看到南韓把對我們台灣入境卡的不當稱呼而且呢之前也不溝通那你給他的期限是3月31號昨天到期了昨天到期了那我看到你們有個聲明說因為"},{"start":3821.321,"end":3842.231,"text":"這個南韓要這個有一些調整因應作為所以我們相對因應的反制作為就先暫緩我請教是他們要做什麼調整就你了解就是有關於這個電子路徑卡他會調整調整他會調整隔天4月1號他什麼時候要調整"},{"start":3843.004,"end":3858.97,"text":"就是他們行政作業需要一點時間那他們也有對外的說明這是確認啦我跟我們交涉另外他們也有對外他們外交部也有對外我想媒體也有報導因為這個東西如果能夠一個交涉成功的話"},{"start":3860.596,"end":3877.546,"text":"維護我們的國格我覺得是一個蠻重要的很多人以為外交務實不要務虛其實對外交來講象徵跟實質是一樣重要Symbolic跟Substantial是一樣的重要的所以我從這裡引到另外一個問題是我們跟南非現在怎麼樣"},{"start":3879.014,"end":3905.736,"text":"我們在南非還是維持我們的管處嘛那雖然他有一些單方的行為我們也不予承認在約寶還是在Pulitoria在Pulitoria還在那裡然後原來我們的代表處然後他雖然要求我們簽紙然後改名甚至幫我們降格可是事實上我們在那邊還是維持我們原來的運作我們在南非的運作跟原來一樣"},{"start":3906.957,"end":3921.385,"text":"位置跟原來一樣然後現在就是把這個局勢和緩下來對因為他們也給我們一個版本說要交涉那當然這個我們就持續交涉中所以我們大概什麼時候可以把南韓又叫回韓國"},{"start":3924.62,"end":3944.419,"text":"那個是另外一個我們的所謂他調整好我覺得只要有善意的表達我們都是這個是基於我想互相平等跟尊重什麼時候這個稱呼大家可以恢復彼此正常我們也正在看這個調整這個月有沒有可能"},{"start":3946.151,"end":3946.891,"text":"接下來請羅美玲委員上台質詢"},{"start":3970.967,"end":3973.933,"text":"謝謝主席有請外交部林部長還有經濟部還有經濟部長賜"},{"start":3986.591,"end":4007.613,"text":"兩位早安 根據國貿署的資料顯示我國跟大多數ECA或是FCA的簽署國在這個協定生效之後雙邊的貿易總輪確實有呈現成長的趨勢像Marshall或是巴拉圭都是"},{"start":4009.254,"end":4014.679,"text":"這個貿易成長幅度呢分別達到74%跟436%那尤其是馬紹爾群島我們是在2025年1月15號才生效才生效可是2025年的貿易總額呢已經跟這一個"},{"start":4023.968,"end":4029.59,"text":"還沒有這個協定還沒有生效之前有高達74%的這個成長的這個幅度可是這個也不是必然的這個趨勢那我們也有看到就是說像史瓦帝尼還有貝里斯這兩個國家卻是在簽署這個ECA之後他這個貿易總額居然是呈現負成長的這個局勢所以我想請教一下我們經濟部"},{"start":4050.697,"end":4074.115,"text":"我們將嘗試這是一個怎麼樣的一個狀況為什麼會呈現負成長跟委員報告我們跟這些邦交國譬如說您剛提到史瓦丁尼跟貝里斯因為這邊引用的是2025年的貿易總額但是我們跟這些國家簽訂的這些FTA ECA已經有"},{"start":4075.281,"end":4092.249,"text":"生效日期已經有一段時間所以我們可能要去往前回溯往前回溯看一下這個實際的貿易總量但是呢因為這些國家最主要的他們大部分都是一些手工藝品或者農產品所以我們積極的幫助這些國家在台灣來拓銷他們產品簡單的來說"},{"start":4098.888,"end":4112.102,"text":"我們在台北跟高雄每年都會辦理這些食品展史瓦帝尼他的辣椒醬跟蜂蜜就是非常他們可以出口的項目所以我們也積極的幫他們來做相關的推廣 以上"},{"start":4115.839,"end":4127.026,"text":"OK 這個可能跟它的這個市場的這個結構也有很大的關係所以我們在數據上來看的話會覺得說不是要簽訂這些協定之後雙方的這個貿易才會有這個成長嗎可是我們在數據上面看到有一些反趨勢像斯瓦帝尼貝里斯像這個部分的話其實就是要去做出這個解釋所以會覺得說我們到底跟邦交國之間到底出了什麼問題"},{"start":4144.617,"end":4159.948,"text":"好那次長您先回座那再來我再來要請教的是我們外交部那根據我們我國的貿易統計呢那日本澳洲還有這個菲律賓呢"},{"start":4160.348,"end":4184.687,"text":"都是我們我國前十大或者是重要貿易的這個夥伴可是到現在為止呢我們都還沒有跟這些前十大或重要的這些夥伴呢簽署FTA或是ECA那相較之下呢跟我們簽署FTA或是ECA的對象多數都還沒有列入主要的貿易夥伴之列那今年年初的時候部長你有接見這個日本的參議員來訪他們來訪的時候你就期盼就是說日本能夠跟台灣早一點"},{"start":4190.451,"end":4207.832,"text":"洽簽這個FCA跟這個ECA那同時也希望日本來幫助台灣早日加入這個CPTPP那現在是台日關係最好的時候我是這麼覺得那在持續深化之下我想請問我們跟日本方面是否有實質的溝通"},{"start":4209.714,"end":4220.52,"text":"比如說部長您所提到的希望日本能夠跟台灣洽簽FTA跟這個ECA這部分我們到底有沒有實質上跟對方做溝通或是說我們有什麼樣的規劃"},{"start":4222.017,"end":4244.585,"text":"是 報告委員我們去年跟日本有簽訂數位貿易的協議那這個當然對促進後續的雙邊貿易會有幫助那我也提到因為台灣要爭取加入CPTPP那日本政府也是表達樂觀其成跟支持的態度那我們當然跟台日之間因為現在的經貿"},{"start":4247.566,"end":4257.031,"text":"這個關係越來越緊密我們跟美國簽訂21世紀貿易倡議協定跟英國也簽訂了EPA等等就是ET"},{"start":4261.424,"end":4279.361,"text":"所以我們也期待日本 我們有簽了非常多的備忘錄我們希望整合 能夠有一個比較大的突破那其實架構一個台日的類似自由貿易協定或是經濟合作協定這樣的一個機制"},{"start":4280.603,"end":4294.793,"text":"所以未來的話其實還是會朝向要來洽簽這個FCA跟ECA嘛其實說剛剛部長你前面所提到的這些其實就是前置的一些作業那未來的話可能會再做整合然後往這個簽署FCA跟ECA這個方向來邁進嘛對不對"},{"start":4295.834,"end":4313.27,"text":"就站在外交部的角度我們希望加強台日關係除了不管是安全的或者是說這個經澳的還有這個各方面的關係但是我們整體上當然包括其他的部會他們主政嘛包括經濟部等"},{"start":4314.352,"end":4328.085,"text":"也在進行很多堆積木的工作可是我們從外交的角度看是已經累積到一個相當的數量我們是可以比較更全面性的來加強台日經貿的交流跟整合"},{"start":4328.891,"end":4343.744,"text":"OK 那另外除了日本之外像去年八月份部長你有接受印度政治家報的這個就是The Statesman的專訪你有提到台灣跟印度同為全球民主社會不可或缺的夥伴"},{"start":4344.384,"end":4372.842,"text":"那雙方的合作是天作之合你有這麼提到那你也希望雙方能夠簽訂FTA所以我想請問部長在這個新南向這個政策的架構之下到底雙方有沒有洽談因為我們知道說部長您常常會說希望這跟這個就要談那我們也希望就是說其實有實質上的這個進展那跟印度這方面呢我們有做這方面的這個溝通或是做相關的規劃嗎"},{"start":4375.212,"end":4394.009,"text":"委員所提跟這些國家我是覺得除了一般經貿關係當然會促進雙方面的簽署一些相關的協定但是如果有比較戰略性的思考因為在全球的整個地緣政治跟供應鏈的重組這個怎麼樣去"},{"start":4398.052,"end":4413.946,"text":"去找朋友那台灣除了要去參加比較多邊的國際組織有時候也遇到一些困難可是雙邊的啦只要當地國發現我舉印度來講我們有一些電子業去投資可是它周邊的這些協力廠商去就很困難"},{"start":4414.867,"end":4440.065,"text":"那這個到底是先簽了一個比較屬於自由貿易的協定那這樣子當然會帶動來解決很多的問題可是也許有一些主政者他們會認為說等經貿關係累積到一個程度我們再來簽這個是雞生蛋蛋生雞的問題但是時間是很急迫的對每一個國家都面對到包括川普的這個新的關稅政策我們必須要就雙邊去加強經貿的"},{"start":4443.948,"end":4453.768,"text":"特別是不管是FTA、ECA或者是所謂的ETP這些都是我們應該要努力的方向"},{"start":4454.639,"end":4475.553,"text":"OK 那我當然說站在外交部的立場也希望跟這些國家 理念相同的國家能夠在締結合約的時候不管是在經貿或在外交方面我們都可以有進一步更緊密的這個合作像之前我有看到像菲律賓 菲律賓之前來訪的時候部長同時也是提到"},{"start":4476.013,"end":4496.088,"text":"那我們希望能夠透過這個台非經濟走廊計畫來對接美國跟日本還有菲律賓共同推動的這個旅送經濟走廊我們希望一起來打造這個非紅產業的這個共同來打造這個非紅產業鏈所以我們也都希望說我們把我們的想法理念提出來更是希望說它有這個實際上的這個進展"},{"start":4499.21,"end":4525.163,"text":"所以因為像過去的話我們也曾經跟澳洲說要簽署FTA可是到後來呢我們也沒有看到任何的這個推進那而且我們還有看到就是說其實台紐商會他們一直也都積極的希望就是說台灣台灣能夠跟澳洲來進行這個FTA的這個簽署或者是來推動這個甚至推動這個ECA可是我也知道說"},{"start":4525.983,"end":4550.486,"text":"台灣在國際的這個處境是非常的困難不是說我們想簽署就簽署尤其是澳洲我已經談了這麼久到現在我也沒有看到任何的這個進展所以部長英明前陣子也剛到澳洲去你也過境澳洲所以我在想這個部分我也不曉得在那一趟的旅程當中有沒有跟當地的政府官員有這方面的這個洽談"},{"start":4552.547,"end":4568.292,"text":"我們跟澳洲的關係是進展的很順利而且很快速那這裡面就涉及到說我舉個比例啦其實外交跟經貿是兩條腿走路啦一定要左腳向前走的話右腳"},{"start":4569.272,"end":4589.997,"text":"那比如說我們雙邊的這些貿易投資如果沒有像自由貿易協定或者是說經濟合作協定或是相關的這一些像避免雙重瞌睡啦促進投資的這些保障你就很難讓我們政府有這個角色可以去鼓勵跟保障我們企業在那邊的投資或者是貿易"},{"start":4590.797,"end":4606.691,"text":"所以我都是用這樣的方式跟對方溝通這是一方面內政會涉及到你市場准路可能的衝擊因為這都有社會可能的影響包括對一些比較敏感的產業像農業可是另外一方面這個當然因為台灣已經現在隨著我們跟各國"},{"start":4610.473,"end":4632.143,"text":"包括跟美國簽訂這些 其實我們台灣已經很符合其實是很開放透明的市場經濟所以已經更具備條件 我們台灣比較不怕開放人家的產品進來他可能有一些對內部的保護 這個難免 這個都是可以解決倒是外交上就是中共的經濟脅迫"},{"start":4633.804,"end":4659.967,"text":"會讓這些國家會有一點疑慮因為好像又跟台灣簽了這個任何的協定或協議就有好像外交的意涵那我們去說明就是說當然外交的效應是一回事最重要是還是我們很實質的來看兩邊的經貿關係比如說我們參加CPTPP我們也做過研究那對每個國家都有貢獻包括對澳大利亞可是呢他們知道這對雙方面都有好的可是"},{"start":4660.968,"end":4677.083,"text":"會面對到壓力這個也是台灣特殊的處境那我們也必須要在這方面去找出可能的這個路來跟他們加強經貿的整合經貿的整合越緊密對台灣的安全就越有保障"},{"start":4677.643,"end":4690.842,"text":"那我們跟台美的關係也是如此我想這個台灣是一個很特殊外交的處境所以我們必須透過我們的經濟跟一些國家的整合來提升我們國家安全"},{"start":4692.202,"end":4711.817,"text":"OK好謝謝部長那五國說實在的我們作為高度依賴對外貿易的這個經濟體那對外貿易的協定的這個佈局他是攸關產業的競爭還有這個整個這個長期的這個發展所以那外交部跟相關的單位一起一起努力吧OK好以上謝謝好謝謝韋恩謝謝接下來請陳俊宇委員上台質詢"},{"start":4729.599,"end":4733.801,"text":"好 謝謝趙偉 我們有請家榮部長請林部長部長早委員早部長我們台灣多年來在國際社會的處境除了外交部持續推動各項的榮邦計畫那我們也應該善用自身的優勢積極地來拓展我們與各國之間更深層的一個合作關係那我們透過"},{"start":4756.748,"end":4779.786,"text":"這個跨領域的交流還有資源整合不只建立連結更實際協助我們這些邦交國還有理念相近的國家的相關的一些發展那也不但讓彼此之間的關係更加穩固也進一步深化台灣在當地實質的一個影響力那台灣從這個1950年開始我們就做了許多援外的工作包括早期的這個農集團還有農耕隊那從這個"},{"start":4785.371,"end":4814.871,"text":"在這個現在的全球各地我們在醫療還有教育通訊還有這個環境等各項領域進行援助先前我們看到這個報導表示我們國會正在推動台灣模式2.0要參照其他國家的這個開發援助機構的做法將我們駐外的這些技術團把它轉型為辦公室讓我們跟夥伴國家的交流不限於技術更能夠涵蓋到"},{"start":4815.951,"end":4833.217,"text":"這個政策倡議的部分那我想請教部長就是有關我們在海外的這些技術團要轉型成所謂的這個辦公室的這個量能相關的規劃為何那我們要從哪裡開始做會不會需要派出更多的人來做這個工作的因應"},{"start":4834.533,"end":4857.029,"text":"報告委員,台灣為了外交要找出路,從以前的農耕隊到技術團其實現在已經形成一個台灣模式,這就要有助於當地國的能力建構那相對於中國一帶一路啊,如蝗蟲過境啊然後就控制人家的這些國家的基礎設施,然後造成他破產然後傾銷,然後整個人民都失業"},{"start":4858.05,"end":4872.347,"text":"現在全世界都在比較台灣模式對中國模式所以我們必須把這個模式把它發揚光大那過去我們是援助的方式我們現在也加上投資所以國會的角色必須要以跟他共榮"},{"start":4873.708,"end":4895.702,"text":"包括合資 比如說有一些國家的能源 電廠它是基礎設施 如果這個國家沒有足夠的電來發展它不可能有工業化那這些國家都想從傳統農業社會工業化那他們對台灣就很有興趣台灣過去從輕工業 像紡織跟食品加工到現在的所謂高科技產業"},{"start":4896.902,"end":4924.968,"text":"從電子業 資通訊 半導體到AI所以我們台灣有這個所謂的榮邦計畫有八個旗艦就對應他們國家發展的需要那這裡面很重要的就是三個部分人才 科技跟資金所以我們有很多獎學金我們對他們的人才的培育甚至他們設大學像在巴拉圭跟我們的台科大變成姐妹學校這個是長久之計然後科技現在的很多的這個所謂要創新的治理不需要走原來舊的路"},{"start":4926.548,"end":4951.085,"text":"他們是可以有趕超就catch up那這個也是台灣可以跟他結合所以一些國家你像他們看到台灣其實看到都不是傳統說我們跟他這個這個造一條橋或者是蓋一條馬路而是需要台灣的know-how第三個很重要就是資金那現在因為全世界其實面對中共的一帶一路的這種輸出每日歐的國家都有說像"},{"start":4953.101,"end":4981.021,"text":"有像歐銀、亞銀像日本它的國際開發的公司我們必須跟它合作挑選有利於台灣去投資的項目這也是我們現在新的模式至於你剛剛提到有沒有遇到什麼困難我們遇到一個很大的困難就是說我們的國會以前有相當多的替代役這個兵役現在從四個月又改回一年了"},{"start":4981.863,"end":5005.755,"text":"所以這個來源會不見了所以我們也在包括總統跟行政院報告之後也得到他們的支持未來也期待立法院的支持能夠讓台灣的優秀人才透過他級服役的時間也可以到國外去為國爭光這裡面的這些相關的領域也不要受限於過去比較狹隘的領域我們希望八大籠幫計畫"},{"start":5007.376,"end":5022.139,"text":"旗艦的計畫都能夠得到相關的人才,也讓台灣的年輕人可以早一點去接觸外交,走向世界我們人力會需要再增加嗎?除了替代役的部分,有沒有可能公務人員要再增加?"},{"start":5023.013,"end":5050.192,"text":"我們外管基於我們現在整個總和外交的需要包括跟各部會需要的緣額我舉個例子以前各部會派駐外管都需要借用我們外交部的緣額這會有排擠所以我們也跟主計總處主計長協調我們是不是可以整體的來規劃因為我們有111個外管我們也不希望都是有些都是兩人管三人管我們希望說整合來發揮更大的能量"},{"start":5051.032,"end":5070.644,"text":"當然有一些新的發展像在中東歐或像在美國像鳳凰城因為亞利桑那因為台積電其實都在因應整個國際情勢的改變我們也需要有整個新的編制緣和跟預算的支持也期待大院能夠來支持部長我們這個"},{"start":5072.305,"end":5088.779,"text":"土瓦魯的部分您在這個月也剛從土瓦魯訪問回來在去年11月土瓦魯的總理也來台灣訪問過雙方也簽訂了包含台土團結共融的條約還有台土多樣化的漁業合作協定"},{"start":5089.399,"end":5106.937,"text":"還有這個台土運動交流合作意向書等條約期盼能夠在未來有進一步交流的合作關係那是不是請部長說明一下我們和土瓦魯之間所簽訂的這三項條約目前實踐的這個程度到哪裡那能夠為雙邊的關係帶來什麼樣的一個幫助"},{"start":5109.48,"end":5130.503,"text":"是,我們感謝土塔魯總理戴培莉,他希望跟台灣其實利用地盟的方式把台灣的跟他的邦交關係變成一個條約,他們國內不管是誰執政那這個方向我們也覺得很認同,所以會一起來成立所謂的台獨的龍邦基金"},{"start":5131.204,"end":5150.81,"text":"那台灣不要小看的土瓦魯他雖然一萬人他是一個在面臨氣候變遷其實海平線的上升那全世界都在幫他台灣的模式讓全世界感覺到跟我們合作最好比如說海岸的調適計畫他們必須要去填海造陸可是台灣做的物美價廉"},{"start":5152.13,"end":5176.696,"text":"而且他們就是 其實他們島跟島之間可能一直到漲潮就會淹水那我們做的部分都是很就是對準這些問題另外像這個所謂這個中太平洋的海嵐的延伸這一段我們是負責維運所以後來後續我們就可以持續跟這個國家透過這樣子一個電信5G的應用讓它可以在這個太平洋島國裡面變成一個"},{"start":5178.797,"end":5206.172,"text":"就是說是一個模範那這個也是我們新的榮邦計畫的方式其他幾個相關的條約當然很重要是漁業如果沒有這些漁業的收入他的經濟他的財政就會有問題所以我們也透過各種漁船包括一些所謂的他們捕魚日這些漁權的轉換另外就是透過我們的漁船的入籍或怎麼樣幫他們未來的產品可以銷到這個一些像美歐的市場"},{"start":5207.112,"end":5221.637,"text":"這個也就是根本解決他經濟發展上面現在遇到的一些困難那我也期待他這樣一個過程之後我們不是只有援助而是讓他慢慢能夠以台灣模式發展出他在地的特色那成為他未來"},{"start":5222.737,"end":5249.231,"text":"不只是說維持我們的邦交他在全世界都可以幫台灣去發聲像帛琉的貝尼亞總統啦巴拉圭的這個帛琉的惠蘇人總統巴拉圭的貝尼亞總統他們在國際上面對台灣的講話都是發自內心即使我們不在現場他們依然都引以為榮這個也就是我們榮邦計畫台灣已經發展到一個新的境界跟階段我們的外交也必須跟著調整就推動這個總和外交"},{"start":5250.339,"end":5270.752,"text":"那部長另外針對這個我們非洲的友邦史瓦帝尼的部分那延續上一次何部長您提到這個相關的基礎建設還有經貿合作的規劃之外另外對於我們這個產業招商的部分在使國除了要設立這個台灣產業創業園區之外我們也看到外交部先前已經籌組了這個"},{"start":5273.214,"end":5298.794,"text":"產業團和台商團赴死國來參訪那也預計在今年下半年度要擴大參與史瓦帝尼國際商展來協助企業開拓死國的市場那我想請教部長榮邦經貿辦事處的這個推動會透過什麼樣的經費來支應那服務的對象不限於我們12個友邦國家外外交部會鼓勵企業怎麼投入這個響應這個政策好"},{"start":5300.919,"end":5321.093,"text":"報告委員我們是參考以前就是我們講的所謂中美洲經貿辦事處因為是有個中美洲基金那我們跟很多的邦交國共同組成的可是現在在中美洲我們只剩下兩個國家的邦交國那當然採購啦或是說促進投資啦這些都是可是很重要的除了G2G的關係我們也建立B2B的關係"},{"start":5322.194,"end":5343.025,"text":"所以這一次我們參考就是中美洲經貿辦事處我們成立了榮邦經貿辦事處把非中美洲跟其他的國家都可以整合進來那這個時候我們鼓勵B2B有時候台灣的這個企業尤其是一些具有很好品牌的企業他們可以幫助這些國家不只去採購甚至食品加工甚至可以輸出到第三國"},{"start":5344.065,"end":5370.958,"text":"那讓他們變成有一個產業那這樣的方式我會鼓勵他們去成立一個共處一家公司來配合我們國家的政策所以我們目前在預算上並沒有新增是由我們自己我們部內透過國經司委由國和會來成立這個龍芳經貿辦事處那我們也去溝通鼓勵民間合組公司未來我想在兩邊的經貿關係上就可以真正"},{"start":5371.778,"end":5395.704,"text":"打通認度二脈比如說我舉個例子啦以這個石瓦地理來講它有這個叫做馬路拉這種所謂橡樹果的油那是非常高級而且在世界上它的品質很好可是它可能都掉了滿地那怎麼樣去跟它契作能夠收成然後讓它的這個人民有工作做然後這個透過我們的幫它認證透過檢測透過食安透過有機那這樣子輸出之後它的價值就會比較高"},{"start":5401.385,"end":5430.925,"text":"所以我覺得現在的榮邦計畫讓這些國家看到未來的希望那我們也鼓勵台灣的企業跟政府一起走向我們的透過邦交國走向世界最後一個問題我想請教部長就是3月中旬我們也接到使國的邀請他的國王恩史瓦第3世58歲的壽臣他邀請我們賴總統能夠去參訪我想這個部分我們現在安排的整個期程到哪裡"},{"start":5431.625,"end":5445.095,"text":"包括我們是有收到他的邀請函那我們外交部當然作為一個幕僚單位我們都是會做評估跟規劃跟相關的準備因為這是一個很重要的此國的慶典也有是一個國際場合"},{"start":5448.137,"end":5465.546,"text":"但是最後的評估決定的結果當然還是要有待總統府還有包括國安部門各部會整體的做評估之後在適當的時候做決定再由總統府來對外做說明好 謝謝部長好 謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來請黃仁委員上台質詢"},{"start":5482.814,"end":5510.171,"text":"謝謝主席,有請我們林部長請林部長部長,針對這一次的WTO第十四屆的部長會議部長級的一個會議剛結束很遺憾我國被迫拒絕出席"},{"start":5511.089,"end":5540.384,"text":"那當然這是我們自從2001年加入WTO之後首次沒有出席WTO部長級會議原因是受中共的影響主辦國柯麥隆對我國極度的不尊重矮化我國的地位外交部為了維護國家的尊嚴主動記者出席會議本席認同外交部維護中華民國國家的尊嚴的決定"},{"start":5541.104,"end":5554.802,"text":"那但是再請問沒有出席WTO部長級的會議對我國有什麼樣的不利的影響或者損失你來說明一下好不好報告委員對這一次在柯耐農舉辦的部長級會議我們"},{"start":5559.16,"end":5579.195,"text":"這個交涉的結果啦雖然我們沒有參與但是我們也都積極掌握會議的進行那最主要是他矮化我們之外因為不能形成先例那我們交涉還有包括各國包括這個WTO的這個秘書處啊都覺得我們的主張是有道理所以最後這個柯麥隆政府是有調整"},{"start":5579.955,"end":5595.158,"text":"不過他在調整裡面又有一些錯誤那已經來不及再更正比如說他給我們要能夠免簽入境已經不是用原來的這個所謂的這個台灣然後 Province of China可是名字也寫錯然後性別也錯"},{"start":5596.419,"end":5619.236,"text":"那這個時候時間已經壓縮到很接近大會那我們是有做好各種應變的方案啦不過最後綜合考量並沒有就是來得及有辦法在他更改之後去出席這個也有新聞稿加以說明也就是說我們爭取所有參加的機會但是因為這些錯誤我們如果沒有再要求他更正"},{"start":5620.017,"end":5645.368,"text":"那就會變成慣例所以這個也是在外交上有時候某種形式跟實質關係的都是互相影響但是對我們這次權益就這次柯麥隆所主辦的會議我們並沒有因此受到直接的影響我們也因此開始交涉以後要主辦這種所謂的M部長級會議的國家在申辦的時候就必須對台灣承諾"},{"start":5646.528,"end":5672.045,"text":"不能有任何矮化對我們差別待遇我們就是在WTO裡面我們就是台澎金馬關稅領域那一般也用台灣這樣的方式在稱呼尤其是涉及入境他卻以為說因為涉及到這個入境是他單方的國家的主權那事實上這個大家當然要了解嘛因為這個是有政治力的介入所以我們從2001年加入WTO"},{"start":5673.326,"end":5698.534,"text":"這一次是首次拒絕出席但是我們要維護中華民國的尊嚴我們也要強勢的來表達對WTO的一個會議的出席的一個尊嚴所以部長你也特別要表明我們的一個強勢的立場而且非常要受到尊重他要遵守相關的規定所以從這一次的事件看來"},{"start":5699.594,"end":5726.806,"text":"本席也看到我國外交工作的兩難實際上以中共的期望就是要減少我國的一個國際的參與如果從結論來看部長會不會覺得我國主動拒絕出席會議之後正符合了中共的一個心意是不是報告委員這當然是綜合評估如果是可以出席我們真的一切的辦法我們還是要出席"},{"start":5727.779,"end":5745.479,"text":"可是因為他有錯誤,這個錯誤他又來不及更正的時候我們必須在捍衛我們國家的地位的情形之下抗議,抗議完當然持續交涉,事實上他們也承認有一些失誤"},{"start":5746.56,"end":5760.501,"text":"所以這個就不太會成為以後的一個範例反而是未來要主辦的國家在申請的時候都必須跟我們或跟這個秘書處表示很清楚他必須平等對待台灣"},{"start":5762.223,"end":5777.818,"text":"至於在榮邦計畫即將要成立榮邦經貿辦事處並籌授榮邦經貿公司這是不是代表了我國將以投資外交期待於援外的外交看了這個報告,榮邦經貿辦事處是參考中美洲的經貿辦事處但是本席發現風險部分"},{"start":5784.764,"end":5810.049,"text":"龍邦經貿的辦事處比中美洲經貿辦事處高出非常的多那成立這個龍邦經貿辦事處的風險是什麼但是本席認為有絕對風險為什麼我們現在像是一個投資的平台是一個政府支持的投資網路如果透明度不夠"},{"start":5810.729,"end":5831.463,"text":"很容易被質疑是否特定企業因此得到政府的資源是否形成政府背書替特定企業開發海外的市場有將來以後可能會發生如何防治如何控管我想部長你來說明一下"},{"start":5832.143,"end":5859.894,"text":"包括委員 雖然是叫做農幫經貿辦事處他是參考中美洲經貿辦事處可是他並沒有這個一個基金我們現在就是行政上的協助那希望說透過我們政府鼓勵企業他們多去做跟我們友邦的經貿這個關係包括投資貿易那我們台灣有很多的這個這方面的know-how可是他們我們的邦交國台灣會覺得有點"},{"start":5861.254,"end":5875.259,"text":"為什麼我們都不去投資他的或者是為什麼我們都不買他的東西呢雖然我們政府 我們如果自己政府去做我們很難去持續啦還是要企業有商業模式所以剛剛委員擔心的這個倒是不用擔心因為我們中美洲經貿辦事處很有經驗他也會來協助龍幫經貿辦事處雖然他是個任務編組"},{"start":5880.741,"end":5909.721,"text":"它並不是去成立新的一筆基金但是我們讓企業想要去幫忙我們榮邦的時候它有一個行政上的我舉例來講我們的邦交國我們都有大使館我們可以收集所有可以做貿易的項目然後它的產量它的季節它的品質等等我是認為提供這些資訊的服務然後讓我們的企業比較容易願意去那邊可能採購啦可能去加工啦可能去就是說做各種的投資"},{"start":5910.541,"end":5935.303,"text":"那這個是應該想說也是我們現在在做總和外交一個所謂公私協力公部門跟私部門合作的一個我覺得是應該是在全世界包括現在川普政府他也是在做所謂的commercial diplomacy那不要講說日本歐洲國家他們長期其實都透過投資在帶動貿易以及帶動整個雙邊或各方的外交關係"},{"start":5936.488,"end":5960.708,"text":"所以今天我們提到這個就是一個責任的歸屬一定要劃清清楚就行政服務啦 協助啦對 投資遭遇到項目的失敗邦交國這個邦交國政治異動甚至斷交之後投資歸屬及是否再繼續所以外交部對於這些問題的責任釐清是否明確那第三是榮邦計畫"},{"start":5962.71,"end":5979.659,"text":"辦事處設立的根本是我國近年來邦交國流失速度極快政府想用投資綁定邦交但是還是免不了外交競價的一個風險可能被迫提供邦交國不符合我國利益的一個產業投資會不會將來以後會發生這樣的事情"},{"start":5983.001,"end":5998.121,"text":"包括我也應該不會我舉例以前我們去我們在榮邦計畫不只是經貿啦又是投資那我們在開發過去的工業區其實就遇到開發完之後我們無法招商因為其實企業需要什麼我們需要為他們服務就像台灣的政府"},{"start":5999.002,"end":6023.803,"text":"我們的這個單一窗口啦 我們這個同步平行作業就像科學園區或各個產業園區就台灣的這個經驗 尤其是行政上面的這個我們的這些經驗是很寶貴 這是無價的那他們國家要發展 他們也期待台灣把我們台灣經驗能夠輸出給他所以我們其實除了在促進所謂雙方面的所謂的這個經貿的這個外交以外其實我們也在幫他做制度建構"},{"start":6024.764,"end":6039.052,"text":"跟能力建構其實這個就是在幫助他怎麼進入世界市場他們有很好的東西但是他們的附加價值不高那這時候我們透過台灣市場的需求來幫助他比如說他們生產的像在這個馬紹爾群島他有這個茉莉果"},{"start":6042.054,"end":6066.316,"text":"他是一個很對這個提高免疫能力可是他們就不知道怎麼去加工那我們如果能夠跟他契作啊又契收那我們又讓他這個加工之後可以價格可以提升然後他就建立品牌之後因為他跟美國又有特殊的COVA這種協約的關係就可能可以銷到美國他有很多好東西但他不知道怎麼去把它變成一個好的商品"},{"start":6067.329,"end":6095.131,"text":"好 最後 榮邦經貿辦事處形塑出的一個外交模式那也很符合部長的一個雙軌外交的理念那當政府外交透過榮邦經貿這個體系的結合企業聯盟外交本身很擔心政府的外交政策最後會被企業投資利益的會不會被利益綁架以上 那請說明"},{"start":6096.581,"end":6108.197,"text":"因為我們是請企業幫忙我們外交啦其實他們投資在其他的領域或做生意他們都是很多創業楷模都是經濟部認定的那些創業楷模都是中小企業為主"},{"start":6113.283,"end":6130.673,"text":"這些都是台灣打造經濟部落國非常好的這個可以說可以參加我們所謂的聯合艦隊啦所以我倒是說台灣的 我們政府的資源有限那怎麼去讓民間 尤其是企業能夠促進跟我們邦交國的各方面的交流合作"},{"start":6131.893,"end":6151.889,"text":"這個不會有什麼負面或是說太大的負擔注意上述的風險當然也要設置好一個防火牆以免傷及到我們外交部的形象既然我們有心要做一個經貿的邦交來帶著企業過去引領 引導"},{"start":6154.131,"end":6173.75,"text":"引導他們這個所謂投資的一個環境當然是一個好事但是我們也不要被企業反過來綁架了我們外交的一些事務好不好好 我跟委員說明一下我舉例來講比如說像創凱總會啦還有這個工商協經會台北市金出口"},{"start":6176.532,"end":6194.676,"text":"這個工會他們就是在幫我們做榮邦經貿推動的最主要的參與者他們很多都是領導的企業他們平常的社會形象都非常的好我們會注意委員提到的在新藝的時候怎麼也做到防弊好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請林楚英委員上台質詢"},{"start":6214.805,"end":6215.812,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請林部長"},{"start":6223.8,"end":6252.639,"text":"部長好根據我們今天的題目我特別的去關心了一下就是有關於這個太平洋島國論壇今年將會是由我們的這個邦交國來做主辦但是我特別去做了一個這樣的整理就是中國對於台灣的國際空間參與的這個所謂介入是非常深的很希望的就是讓台灣被消失但是當然我們知道部長跟我們外交同仁都非常的努力"},{"start":6254.14,"end":6259.923,"text":"以這個即將在今年舉辦的這個所謂的太平洋島國論壇我們張越剛好是我們的邦交國所以當然我們也積極的投入現在的話整個騎乘出來了嗎"},{"start":6266.79,"end":6284.102,"text":"出來了在八月底九月初的一週所以八月底九月初距離剛好我們年底的地方大選選舉非常的近其實如果來看一下的話以我們的這個曾經的邦交國索羅門他也是去年上一屆的主辦國但是可以看得出來中國對於像索羅門這樣的一個"},{"start":6287.825,"end":6292.668,"text":"前邦交國過去一開始是先用所謂的金錢外交讓他跟台灣斷交然後呢在2020年的總統大選的時候他企圖就要透過索羅門來介入我們中國中國介入我們台灣的選舉然後去年我想這個情況部長應該也非常清楚就是透過索羅門阻擋我們台灣參與雖然說這一個論壇台灣在1992年開始其實我們就一直都有參與但是他還是介入了"},{"start":6315.239,"end":6341.739,"text":"那麼去年我在質詢的時候也特別提到美國的智庫特別提醒在我們的邦交國就帛琉透過這個有關於帛琉的部分它甚至於也用金錢的方式介入了帛琉裡面的所謂精英的部分所以我們現在一個邦交國的狀況我想要請問一下部長對於現在我們在執行所謂太平洋論壇中國的動作我們是不是有所防範"},{"start":6344.343,"end":6354.297,"text":"對 因為去年在索門群島是中共把一些國家的外交部長找去中國開會然後後來就是索門群島呢"},{"start":6357.158,"end":6378.02,"text":"這個阻止台灣參加那中國在那邊有大使館他可能可以參加所以我們積極交涉的時候包括美日澳等國就有一些夥伴發展的這個所謂的他們的夥伴國家也同樣表達意見所以也沒讓中國得逞這個是一個例子那因為當然今年由帛琉來主辦的時候"},{"start":6378.52,"end":6407.569,"text":"我們就跟他合作把我們榮邦計畫的成果展現而且不只是台灣在帛琉做的是全太平洋國家裡面鄉親國家在那邊做的甚至也不是在帛琉做的包括在馬紹爾群島在這個圖瓦魯就變成我們一個會展我想也歡迎委員到時候可以有直航飛機可以到帛琉去參加這一次的PIV甚至有一些我們國會議員也可以倡議我想很多的場邊會議跟活動也是非常的精彩"},{"start":6408.129,"end":6428.435,"text":"沒有問題其實我們身為國防外交委員喔那麼邦交國有這樣辦一個大活動我相信不論朝野立委都會一起來出席喔那麼也增加國際交流的經驗但是就像您剛剛提到的這個榮邦計畫喔這個PEF在即但是我們知道很多總預算是卡關的其實今天在您的報告上面也提到了喔就是有一些計畫"},{"start":6429.235,"end":6454.067,"text":"是屬於新興的包括我們要協助邦交國的部分那麼像這樣的預算卡關的狀況底下您說今年8月會舉辦嘛對不對那麼包括PEF的舉辦我們在協助的部分包括我們要提供我們邦交國在永續觀光啦智慧永續島等等這個部分喔那麼會不會受到因為總預算的卡關而受到影響尤其是如果8月舉辦現在已經是4月1號"},{"start":6457.128,"end":6485.827,"text":"第一季已經過完了那麼在這個部分會不會在經費上面使用上去這個也算新興計畫恐怕無法延續前一年2025年的預算喔那部長該怎麼辦我們總不能你邀請我們聽結果我們到現場發現該來的計畫都沒來是會有影響但是當然我們也是先救我們操之在己因為我們有一些對這些國家的比較常態性的這些就是援助或者是說"},{"start":6487.51,"end":6488.854,"text":"相關的預算不過"},{"start":6490.182,"end":6517.619,"text":"我們當然期待大院能夠盡快的通過那因為外交部在今年的預算增加是比較多是因為榮邦計畫所以這個項目就像委員講的有68.43億那這直接就是說我們希望說把這個榮邦計畫做得更好那我們當然也期待如果能夠赴委總預算之後呢我們外交部的預算也經過這個外交國防委員會能夠就新增項目能夠這個"},{"start":6519.884,"end":6539,"text":"能夠予以支持 尤其是我知道就是如果真的這個PEF在這個8月要舉行那麼當然很多的前期的作業是必須要透過來做協助的不然我們人去 包括我們朝委的委員如果要去 包括我知道這個召委也要帶著我們去做考察的時候這樣人們問起來 我們起來很難回答 對不對"},{"start":6543.194,"end":6559.204,"text":"是我也拜託韓院長也拜託召委這個兩位召委我都有說明他們也都表達其實是對外交預算是都是跨黨派的支持好那沒有問題另外一個當然我提到我今天會鎖定在中國的部分就包括"},{"start":6560.124,"end":6571.328,"text":"我想這個中國的長臂管轄不只是對於台灣的國會議員現在連日本的國會議員也不放過但是我先要問一個時事題就是我們也知道政協會確定會在4月7號開始舉辦尤其大概一個禮拜吧"},{"start":6579.471,"end":6599.363,"text":"這個對於國際當中所傳達的訊息會是什麼呢我相信這個問題對於國際上面大家都在看包括現在我們的軍購特別條例都還在審查當中尤其是放了一個親民廉價回來之後4月7號剛好會是"},{"start":6601.785,"end":6614.557,"text":"我們的國防特別條例正在院內可能會進行朝野協商甚至於可能在院會當中進行處理而國民黨到現在的態度都還是面對這個國防特別條例是"},{"start":6618.2,"end":6637.208,"text":"部分同意部分不同意的狀況底下那麼當政協會舉辦的時候他會不會對國際傳達錯誤的訊息而外交部在這裡是不是也有積極的對我們的其他的邦交國或國際友人來做必要的溝通跟說明"},{"start":6638.782,"end":6659.559,"text":"包括委員 當然就是就順序上因為有所謂政席會之後才有川席會這當然可能都會有一些互相的影響那對台灣來講我們當然就國防特別預算如果能夠儘早通過比較不會被操作啦這個操作也就是說 那習近平可以講說你看我跟台灣的一些政黨也可以談啊"},{"start":6660.68,"end":6678.172,"text":"那這個對台灣跟美國其實我們的軍購或他們的軍售其實過去台灣關係法或是所謂六項保證就是都有很清楚的規定我們當然希望避免這一些干擾所以如果國防特區算可以儘早通過那就不會被操弄不然有可能"},{"start":6679.013,"end":6705.062,"text":"不一定有心但是可能會有那個後果啦這個是也是我們外交部我們在很密切的關注所謂的川習會的時候啊這個之前的變數怎麼樣能夠避免發生去影響讓習近平可以操弄用這個來就是介入未來可能美台關係裡面包括軍售他說那以後就透過北京來談你們對台灣有沒有要軍售或什麼這個就是會使得我們外交"},{"start":6706.142,"end":6721.647,"text":"因為中國的因素而變成一個風險好本席其實要建議會特別提出來這個部分就是其實現在包括等一下韓院長也要接見外賓那麼我認為在現在以台灣"},{"start":6722.487,"end":6725.208,"text":"有這麼樣多的外賓造訪的同時我們除了在國內進行宣傳之外我也要提醒外館在這個時候這個關鍵時刻我相信國際的友人其實都在看著不論是實質的邦交國或者是我們非常友好的這些同盟國家"},{"start":6741.313,"end":6769.685,"text":"自由民主陣線的國家在這個時候是所有外交同仁第一線要面臨更多做說明跟解釋包括部長您剛剛特別點到的就是如果說今天這樣的一場會面導致於國際社會有錯誤的印象認為說好像談軍購或者是談台灣的未來甚至於談台灣的經貿透過北京習近平這一條線會有所謂的代理人他會下指導旗或者是在幕後"},{"start":6770.645,"end":6793.076,"text":"給予他所謂決定要或不要那麼這樣的一個錯誤的訊息的釋放對台灣就會相對的不利那麼就會像我剛剛從前面講到的帛琉在這個所謂的國際的太平洋的黨國論壇當中有機會上下其手又或者是用其他的方式來壓縮台灣的外交空間是"},{"start":6797.625,"end":6823.595,"text":"因為國際的大國之間當然都會就是說有很多的高峰會或什麼那我們包括這一次所謂的美日高峰會我想大家也看到包括川普總統他的事實清單以及日本方面他們也都有反應對於台海這個的關心那也是反對單方的這個不管武力或脅迫來解決爭議所以"},{"start":6825.896,"end":6845.026,"text":"我們怎麼樣讓台灣的外交是呈現是團結的這個能夠對外不然的話這個確實是使我們在交涉的時候人家會問那你們到底對特別預算的態度那是不是這個就是當然我做一個外交部長內政的部分我說很多"},{"start":6845.486,"end":6845.506,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":6876.974,"end":6879.697,"text":"接下來請王安祥委員上台質詢那個麥克風請林部長"},{"start":6900.285,"end":6927.797,"text":"部長早 剛我聽到前面也有委員提到WTO的這個事情就是前一陣子3.26因為已經過了就是部長級的會議其實這個戈外龍這邊有一些矮化我們的狀況他把我們變成Providence of Taiwan所以看起來後來我們這邊的決定就是不出席了那部長這邊覺得這個不出席會不會影響到一些我們這個有關一些經貿上面談判的一些權益"},{"start":6929,"end":6950.848,"text":"就這次議題我們的書面資料都還是有到場是這並沒有影響可是我們不能形成一個先例所以我們除了抗議然後去交涉然後他們也後來也做了一些這個想要補救可是不完整好像不OK嘛因為名字錯了然後性別也不對好像很就是有點誇張這樣子對"},{"start":6952.188,"end":6980.753,"text":"但是我們就是說前事不忘後事之事我們對於後續要申請第15次部長級會議的國家我們就有好像接下來是沙烏地阿拉伯對 他們也要爭取出戰就是說是不是可以因為有這一次的剛剛隊長說有這一次的借鏡是不是可以針對下一次就是在沙烏地阿拉伯舉辦的時候能夠有一些事前的一些準備或是得到他們一些承諾"},{"start":6982.694,"end":7008.453,"text":"對 我們要求就是他們必須要對台灣有所承諾然後也要讓這個WTO的秘書處也需要廣為周知其實台灣在過去除了WTO之外在APEC比較常發生可是自從秘魯那一次我們據理力爭那也得到各國的支持之後其實就建立了有相當長時間中國是透過所謂的兩會把它就是變成"},{"start":7010.374,"end":7030.644,"text":"兩岸關係來處理我們後來又回到APEC的管道到韓國的時候在慶周舉行的時候就已經比較恢復了我們也希望說今年在深圳主辦的時候都能夠依照相關的規範這些都有一些不管是重要的"},{"start":7032.745,"end":7058.863,"text":"主持章程 或者是決議來進行因為這個好像也蠻突然的本期就是提醒外部這邊在下一屆的時候要特別注意這個事情因為它裡面有一個主題就是有關於我們電子傳輸的稅的部分跟貨幣我想這個部分因為這個可能跟經濟部跟財務部這邊很多有點關係不曉得大家有沒有針對這個部分有一些具體的好像是沒有討論還是說就我們這邊的部分 是不是有請我們請經濟部來說明"},{"start":7066.886,"end":7083.571,"text":"有關於這次電子傳輸它要佔豁免關稅的延長部分大家都沒有達到共識所以第一個我們會密切的關注它後續的發展因為支持這樣子豁免的國家是非常的多"},{"start":7084.687,"end":7099.183,"text":"第一個要支持就是觀察後續的發展第二個呢就是我們因為大部分的我們的重要的貿易夥伴其實是支持這樣的延長所以我們會去看說未來呢"},{"start":7100.184,"end":7116.254,"text":"這些重要貿易夥伴對這個議題是不是會形成一個另外一個多邊的一個協議這個也需要密切觀察那因為我們在日內瓦有代表團所以我們利用我們在日內瓦代表團跟其他的這些代表團的"},{"start":7118.116,"end":7132.535,"text":"會持續的參與相關的討論因為影響可能蠻大的所以我也是提醒這件事情可能要密切的持續注意好 感謝那接下來就是部長就是我們這邊的那個"},{"start":7133.877,"end":7156.682,"text":"辦公室有接到一些電話主要就針對那個越南辦事處的部分因為我們現在就是做南鄉政策我想越南是我們很重要的一個國家而且我們現在這個移工的部分其實在這個越南的部分他們做一個輸出國其實數量蠻多的那我們這邊有接到就是好像越南辦事處常常這個打電話好像找不到人越南駐台"},{"start":7159.935,"end":7178.294,"text":"臺北的越南辦事處臺北的越南辦事處就是常常會找不到人或打電話沒有人接我們去查一些過去的資料好像過去也有人有這樣的反應不知道部長知道這個狀況還是有做一些了解我請亞太司看有沒有掌握這個狀況"},{"start":7180.389,"end":7203.685,"text":"報告委員過去確實有曾經有這樣子反應那我們也一而再再而三在一些相當的場合裡面向他們越南駐台代表轉達但是因為他們本身那個業務量跟人員的調配方面事實上他們可能在這個辦公時間回應的速度有點慢但是我們也會持續請他們在繼續在這邊做改進謝謝"},{"start":7204.705,"end":7228.547,"text":"對 因為我真的是看到很多過去其實好像我們查到2011年開始就有人這樣反映不過看起來截至目前為止還是有人跟我們的辦公室做這樣子的一個反映我想我們南向政策越南這個地方其實對我們來說滿重要而且我們的移工很多而且真的他們要恰功辦理一些文件的這個部分其實是滿頻繁的我不知道就是說"},{"start":7229.387,"end":7255.798,"text":"我想那邊當然是越南那邊他們的一個主政的狀況不曉得因應這個部分就如果他們真的有一些人他沒有辦法取得即時性的一些聯絡不知道這邊有沒有什麼提供協助的部分當然因為這涉及到他們住管在這裡我們可以跟他協調怎麼樣來改善或他需要我們什麼協助因為確實台越之間的這個不管是就是說"},{"start":7258.218,"end":7280.504,"text":"這涉及到的包括移民、勞工、經貿、觀光、社企、婚姻等等業務真的很多我想外交就是雙方的一個關係我們還是有看到這樣的狀況還是請外交部是不是能夠在這個地方多琢磨一下我們多加了解之後看怎麼樣去協助它改善"},{"start":7281.741,"end":7294.739,"text":"那剛剛下一個題目就是有關於這個剛剛其實前面很多的委員有提到因為這個委員這個前面關心的就是所謂的這個榮邦的這個經貿辦的這個部分"},{"start":7297.222,"end":7315.979,"text":"那因為部長上任以後啊其實就一直在宣示我們不要警戒外交我們大概都是用這個所謂的總和外交的方式啦或者榮邦的方式啦透過政府這個剛剛部長說的G2G或者是B2B啦就是透過民間的方式來這個增加我們的這個跟我們的"},{"start":7317.06,"end":7338.049,"text":"不只是邦交國啦,或是非邦交國之間的一些關係啦所以我們就去查了一下相關的一些這個預算的一些編列啦不過我們看起來齁,這個預算的部分啦好,下一頁就是我們看一下有一些這個預算齁就是在我們那個"},{"start":7340.054,"end":7365.677,"text":"另外一個部分,這個部分大概都在第二項目的部分我們看到這個,大家可以看到我們的螢幕上其實這兩項寫起來差不多不過好像這個增加了大概50億左右那我這個基礎是用編列的預算並不是立法院後來審議後的預算就增加了大概50億另外就是這一部分,也是一樣的部分包含這個第二項,他們有包含的部分好像多了大概19億左右"},{"start":7366.678,"end":7388.052,"text":"那我在猜是不是這個就是有關於跟榮邦計畫有關實質上推動所增加的預算不曉得這個部長是不是對他意思在這個部分針對榮邦計畫有八個旗艦那總共預算有68億大概這個部分我們有完整的預算的說明"},{"start":7389.392,"end":7411.016,"text":"至於說這個寫的方式啦因為這個還不是到個別預算的那個項目那我們會提供詳細的資料給委員來參考是是是 那當然我們希望這個人幫計畫希望有些實質上的一些作用所以我們也想知道說這些錢是分配在哪一個部分再請這個部長這邊再給我們一些進一步的這個說明好 謝謝"},{"start":7415.057,"end":7441.088,"text":"那另外就是我們那個有一個這個台歐的這個獎學金的部分就這個部分這個部分也是好像要把它做一些整併也是多了非常非常多的錢那過去其實這個已經有在做就是我們這個有沒有斯化伐克捷克的部分不曉得過去針對這個經費的挹注好像跟那個什麼半導體什麼都有關係不曉得這個有沒有在做一些追蹤過去的成效怎麼樣那這些拿到獎學金的人現在的狀況如何"},{"start":7442.819,"end":7469.59,"text":"是 我們波蘭透過國會跟工研院去培訓人才因為它要進入半導體這個供應鏈必須先有人才所以我們有個中東歐亞所謂供應鏈韌性的計畫我們也增加了波蘭因為波蘭是4000萬人口之前是捷克 斯洛伐克跟立陶宛我們也擴增到波羅的海的三國所以確實在規模跟項目上我們是有擴張都有增加"},{"start":7470.27,"end":7488.381,"text":"那現在就是說效果來講以捷克我們是政府跟他們政府簽署的幾個大的一個合作案進展都很好我也親自到捷克看過所以這個預算應該是反映尤其是人才的方面是我們也辦過"},{"start":7490.267,"end":7515.264,"text":"結業典禮我也主持過確實那個反應是很好因為台灣就是在人才的這個方面是可以說他們要進入半導體必備的一個條件所以我想台灣這個當然這個晶片或者半導體這邊非常的強所以我也想知道一下包含這個過去的一些成效也許可以再跟委員提供資料好 我們一起努力 謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":7520.546,"end":7525.008,"text":"謝謝接下來請黃建斌委員上台質詢謝謝主席主席我們有請林部長請林部長"},{"start":7549.537,"end":7577.25,"text":"你好部長對於前行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表顏惠信 殷斌其實我們都感到非常的惋惜因為這樣的談判人才是非常的稀缺但從後續看到這些訊息是了解到他因為遭到長官的排擠然後職場霸凌導致他心生恥意本席其實向來都反對職場霸凌但我相信部長應該跟本席也一樣"},{"start":7578.09,"end":7599.072,"text":"那反對職場霸凌是會影響辦公室文化很重要的一件事情我們過去媒體有報導說我國駐美代表這個於大雷他有被遭到發文指控說他涉嫌職場霸凌過去因為這個職場因為這個菜色問題辱罵這個督導主管把主管降到副主管"},{"start":7599.753,"end":7618.116,"text":"那對於媒體這些指控我們昨天行政院的主院長也說要請外交部來主動來瞭解那請問部長目前我們瞭解大概查到什麼狀況我們人事處有在進行瞭解那余大使本身也有傳訊跟我做了初步的說明"},{"start":7618.937,"end":7636.508,"text":"因為這次其實因為涉及到的一些網路或媒體的報導我們並沒有說正式收到這個申訴但不是因為沒有收到申訴我們就不去處理我們會主動去關心 去了解所以就是有在進行中"},{"start":7637.68,"end":7655.228,"text":"部長 因為這個駐外大使代表的是我國的在駐外的這個門面那一切行為他都會被高規格來看待所以請部長能不能好好的來查一下如果確實沒有這件事也要讓他還他一個清白那會後也請部長把這個初步調查的結果提供給本席這個辦公室"},{"start":7655.748,"end":7683.604,"text":"好 我跟委員也說明一下我比較直接有掌握啦因為有一些我們外館人事的調整還是都有一規定那至於說每一個館長或我們的大使或代表他用人他竟然有一個程序那也不能個人的好惡所以這個部分外面有一些紫色的部分我有就是請人事單位在家了解因為有時候當然在每個人的領導風格還有方法上"},{"start":7684.284,"end":7713.195,"text":"一定是不能夠具有職場的霸凌我們有相關的法令我們也希望說大家能夠透過這些管道來申訴如果具體的事證也可以提供給我們好 謝謝部長那我們回到今天的主題今天早有特別安排這個我國三個太平洋三個友邦的專案報告就是關於這三個友邦目前都面臨氣候變遷然後導致海平面上升然後侵蝕大規模這個土地然後"},{"start":7713.855,"end":7728.747,"text":"國家面臨消失的這些問題那我們既然是這個三個國家友邦我們當然就來協助我們友邦來解決困難那不過本席這邊也要強調就是說協助不是傻逼那個如果靠傻逼才能夠拱惡外交這個情誼不會長久"},{"start":7730.709,"end":7753.281,"text":"以下本席有幾個問題想要來跟部長這邊來就教第一個就是從經濟部國貿署的資料我們可以發現我國對馬紹爾出口在2022年的時候是四億三千八百五十七萬一路下滑到2024年達到最低只有一億三千三百八十九萬美金馬紹爾出口會急速下降的原因是什麼"},{"start":7754.661,"end":7778.279,"text":"因為我想這麼短的時間它下降一定有原因農業部的報告也指出說馬紹爾的遠洋漁業有發展的潛力請問我國目前在馬紹爾的遠洋投資有什麼未來有哪些新的項目在進行這個對於我國未來在海洋產業發展上有什麼樣的幫助第一個 請部長回應"},{"start":7780.74,"end":7805.206,"text":"對 陳議員所講其實馬紹爾最主要還是以漁業的收入那這裡面當然有一些是漁船那過去我們有企業有跟他合作那也有幾艘漁船但有一些漁船是產權是登記在馬紹爾群島不過隨著漁船的可能老舊或者是要換新而有新的他們的"},{"start":7807.966,"end":7831.575,"text":"這個合作的模式所以這個部分我們也是密切關注因為這是民間的一個投資我們是希望多大能夠維持那再來一個就是有關於這個漁權就是捕魚的這個日的這個交易的問題那我們過去是這方面比較多不過隨著那個漁的這個說氣候變遷它那個漁場的改變也影響到"},{"start":7836.349,"end":7863.471,"text":"這些國家的收入那最後我想最重要的是說能不能在這裡發展漁業加工他的碼頭還有相關的這些不管是產業或是服務業這個也是我們這一次如果我們有安排這個投資考察團希望能夠著重這也是美國希望說幫助馬薩爾群島以舉例來講我們必須要讓他找到他可以有"},{"start":7864.631,"end":7891.98,"text":"穩定或是這些財政收入的產業也創造人民工作機會這樣我們的邦交也才比較能夠鞏固這長久了 當然就是因為是共榮嘛它好我們也要好嘛所以這個也要對我們國內的產業特別是在漁業這一塊台灣是一個四面黃海的海洋國家我們要為海外發展的時候哪些這個是未來對於我們的這些產業是有實質幫助這是更重要的這個是人民會支持我們外交的"},{"start":7892.66,"end":7921.382,"text":"那另外就是說在查了這個三個國家的這個貿易檔案裡面發現三個國家跟這三個邦交國家裡面他從中國進口的物品的比例都非常高尤其是馬紹爾跟這個帛琉主要他都是佔他們國內進口的第一個那未來有沒有可能中國會利用這樣的方式經貿協約要求要斷交那對於這一些我們有什麼因的方式那有沒有還有沒有什麼樣的措施能夠提高他對我們的進口"},{"start":7923.403,"end":7947.75,"text":"委員只講到一個很重點因為這些我們的邦交國當然他中國比較沒有辦法大張旗鼓的去承攬工程雖然有時候透過國際的這些銀行這個算是援助的項目那也是開放這個招標這個對我們是一個我們多密切注意跟因但是另外一個就是所謂的這一些進口品"},{"start":7948.57,"end":7971.01,"text":"它形成了一個商店甚至他們的人就在這邊買賣這個其實就會進入它社會的末梢這裡面會不會有其他的一些任務比如說我們在帛琉的時候我想在2024帛琉總統選舉的時候其實後來公布了很多的調查其實這個確實是我們應該要去妥善因應"},{"start":7971.69,"end":7989.973,"text":"所以馬紹爾群島來講 比如說他這個碼頭然後有漁船進來就會有漁工他生活上各方面的需求那我們希望說我們未來在物流上面我們為什麼要去推動榮邦經澳辦事處來促成民間對他們的比如說進口"},{"start":7991.139,"end":8013.675,"text":"台灣有非常好的貨品可以進口這裡因為我們又有這個所謂ECA等等那再來就是要培訓他們的人才也就是他們要有辦法跟這一些通路啊能夠來做生意那如果他在台灣學習的時候我們就能夠引導他進入到相關的這一些產業那他一技之長之後回去就可以代理啊"},{"start":8014.995,"end":8040.777,"text":"即使是一個超商他也要進貨這個時候的物流呢那如果台灣這次我們希望透過民間的投資以外也促進他的這個所謂的貿易的進出口這個可能會某種程度會解決到他剛剛委員提到的就是他的貨都來自於中國然後在這邊買賣的人都是中國在那邊長期的滲透影響或利益輸送就是"},{"start":8041.457,"end":8067.333,"text":"有時候一下子看不到但是它長期就會你這個末梢就會出問題都是要再提醒要注意的事情因為其實經濟部裡面的報告提出是三個台北市三個邦交國它的特色就是人口少然後它的產業其實相對都不發達那特別像我剛才看了資料這三個國家加起來人口數還沒有我們台東市多我們台東市還有80萬這三個國家還有不到10萬"},{"start":8068.464,"end":8097.443,"text":"那在這個特別我們要提到還在報告裡面要提到說這個土瓦魯的這個他更提到說他的工商交通貿易都極度不發達市場規模也小短期內亦難大幅改善不利的條件必須仰賴我國的政員才得以生存那我想要請問外交部跟經濟部說你針對土瓦魯的這個產業困境我們要怎麼協助他產業升級然後另外除了援助以後我們有沒有什麼我們榮邦計畫的實行有沒有什麼具體的措施"},{"start":8099.905,"end":8126.727,"text":"報告委員除了基礎設施包括像電信或者是說這些道路以外他的民生需求就是需要進出口貿易這個大概我們有在協助未來包括他獎學金的人才然後包括他能夠產學合作然後到我們的企業比如說我們的這些很大的這些超商然後也可以建立他這邊的人脈那另外一個很重要的是漁業"},{"start":8127.948,"end":8147.371,"text":"就是怎麼樣讓他捕魚之後也可以增加收入除了漁權的交易以外那個漁船他們也是有分到一定的配額我們台灣就像我想在台東 屏東這些其實我們有相當多的漁業其實可以用他們的Quota"},{"start":8147.951,"end":8175.523,"text":"這樣也可以讓我們台灣的漁業有更大的發展當作是一個另外一個遠洋的基地這樣對 那個食品加工可以做像在馬紹爾群島可能有這個簡歷北濟的話我們也有台商在那邊投資不論我們這幾年一直在推動的務實外交我覺得務實外交就是要讓彼此之間的連結性更高要互助互利就是你好我也要好這個感情才要長久只有靠感情 只有靠金錢 只有感情 那不孤單"},{"start":8176.323,"end":8203.738,"text":"我覺得這跟真正的問題一樣 保證你有沒有認同對啊 感情或價值這些都是很重要啦但是麵包啊 要讓它能夠有經濟的發展就業機會也是非常重要部長 再利用點時間 最後提到就是說我們提到這個三個國家這三個 太平洋三個邦交國它都是屬於南島語系部長 你知道南島文化 它是屬於南島語系嘛南島文化的發源地在哪邊 你知道嗎"},{"start":8204.618,"end":8228.646,"text":"現在學界大概已經幾乎是來自於台灣特別是台東那這個部分也要跟部長講說過去我們為了要推動南島文化的交流我們在1999年的時候台東縣政府就舉辦了南島文化節邀請世界各地的南島文化的國家來到台灣來展演那後來因素就停辦不過這幾年我們還是有辦一些相關的活動"},{"start":8229.446,"end":8247.398,"text":"那像這幾年像那個園民會也辦一個叫Pasivali的這個國際音樂祭那也吸引很多的國外的音樂人才來這邊來展演那也吸引很多台灣的觀光客甚至國外的觀光客來台東那這些東西我想台東縣政府其實除了做這些以外還有辦很多的這些"},{"start":8248.619,"end":8266.557,"text":"公益的展覽的活動像我們一個叫原住民文化產業創業聚落我們透過文化透過公益的活動讓更多人來認識南島文化認識台東那部長你都說要用文化來走向世界文化就是最好的媒介嘛那我想台東也用文化來證明"},{"start":8267.578,"end":8281.885,"text":"我們台東是屬於南島文化中心的這個決心那未來是不是也建議我們外交部也好或可以結合園民會來讓預祝更多這樣子在國際曝光的機會讓更多人認識南島文化認識台灣也認識台東"},{"start":8284.026,"end":8303.98,"text":"我還前同意委員的這個主張我們的總和外交有原住民外交跟文化外交事實上在太平洋的島國包括像加拿大跟澳洲他們其實有對於原住民的經濟社會權利就是像我們跟澳洲紐西蘭也有三邊的會議其實在這方面就是可以透過原住民文化"},{"start":8304.64,"end":8317.109,"text":"其實跟經濟社會發展把它連結它不只可以促進觀光可能在產業上所以這個確實是太平洋我們有時候看起來好像就幾個島國然後沒有多少人可是這些島國的海域啊"},{"start":8318.447,"end":8343.425,"text":"他的藍色國土是很大的這個就是我們原住民當時可能不負周然後就沿著這個洋流這樣的一個學術上的研究基本上也已經都證實了所以這是台灣很特別作為南島文化之源我們一定要來怎麼樣去促進原住民尤其是文化上面的交流合作我相信台中縣政府非常樂意的跟外交部跟"},{"start":8344.562,"end":8361.964,"text":"相關的單位來合作那未來我們一起來努力這邊也請不會就今天本席提到的一些問題那跟本席辦公室這邊來做報告好我們再補充資料提供給委員謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝委員好謝謝黃建斌委員的發言部長您喝口水"},{"start":8372.436,"end":8389.487,"text":"下一位我們請陳冠廷委員質詢我們請台灣日本關係協會秘書長跟農業部次長"},{"start":8401.752,"end":8410,"text":"不好意思台灣日本關係協會秘書長洪英傑跟常務次長農業部次長等一下再請部長謝謝還有農業部次長好謝謝次長那先次長好了不好意思"},{"start":8425.329,"end":8437.51,"text":"市長最近我們看到很多農業上面的災損是因為沒有雨沒有水那導致有很多的農作物都需要這個急需現金救助或者是這個災害救助等等"},{"start":8438.103,"end":8460.845,"text":"那在我們嘉義族旗它是有高階梨就是台灣的梨樹種但是他們現在有遇到一個小問題就是說這些梨樹他們通常都會跟日本來去進梨稅那進梨稅的部分呢主要大概是從這個新瀉那或者是秋田等等的看他們自己的喜歡什麼樣的梨種那特別是新瀉可是現在問題在於說"},{"start":8464.048,"end":8480.139,"text":"量啦第一個是量不夠然後第二個就是說有中間商那導致說他們變成說他的利潤可能都被中間商拿走那爭取不到這些好的離稅那就沒有辦法產出好的這個水利給我們的鄉親朋友們那他們"},{"start":8480.999,"end":8505.082,"text":"的說法我認為也可以請次長跟看一下台日協和看怎麼樣來去做他說我們現在很多台灣的縣市首長都在推縣市外交跟日本的各個縣知識在建立關係那把這一種我們的需求要透過廣告文宣也好讓更多可以提供的人知道那這樣我們的supply供給就能增加那需求不變的"},{"start":8506.483,"end":8535.943,"text":"需求不變的狀況供給增加的話那當然價格也會下降那我們也可以拿到更好的離稅那這個部分市長有沒有辦法跟我們的台灣負責日本相關業務的這些外交同仁們來去談這件事情因為我想不是只有嘉義縣會有類似這樣子的問題我們當然也是希望說嘉義縣跟農業局來跟中央的這些政府們一起來去推動這個部分所以請市長簡單來回應一下然後接下來再請我們台日相關的同仁來回應"},{"start":8536.864,"end":8551.696,"text":"非常謝謝委員關心跟支持台灣的農業因為其實講到不管是哪種農產品最終端的產品是好的那它的很重要的是源頭比如說高階梨的那個梨碎的來源那就很重要所以我們非常樂意做這樣子的橋樑"},{"start":8554.098,"end":8575.913,"text":"希望透過縣市對某個縣也好對城市跟哪個城市也好去確保雙方因為在農業的結合是密切的是不是可以結合成一個不管是姊妹市也好或是戶房也好或者是對於供貨來源品質的一些協議我想我們都非常樂意來做這樣子的協助跟平台"},{"start":8576.513,"end":8587.862,"text":"好那這個部分的話我就請我們縣的農業局再跟農業部來對接那請問台日協可不可以簡單來回應一下主席好委員好台日協洪英傑報告"},{"start":8590.347,"end":8610.05,"text":"其實因為離歲的關係苗曲縣有個三朝町跟北龍町跟我們的大渡鄉還有石岡鄉並結姊妹都市那是因為離歲的關係那所以每年大概春天的時候就會有卓蘭卓蘭鎮的人去因為要拿離歲所以去苗曲縣訪問"},{"start":8611.411,"end":8631.545,"text":"那苗曲線他們也反映一個問題他們因為人口高齡化的關係所以他們去取這個離稅會有就是說越來越少的情況這是他們結構的問題那我們也去幫忙就是說促進兩個都市交流然後譬如說因為我們年輕的農家去那邊拿"},{"start":8633.322,"end":8660.716,"text":"打工度假嘛對 也是一個方式或者是把我們的年輕同學以前都直接就在那邊就把這個離稅的問題就解決了沒錯 我們有提出這個建議那我們就請農業局跟次長次長跟台日協因為他們都在講新縣你現在提供一個新的可能性出來那今天的質詢就有就有成績出來了 謝謝你喔感謝 感謝那鳥取縣也是一個我還沒聽到他們講這個東西現在我知道了它是跟哪一個我們台灣哪個縣"},{"start":8662.538,"end":8671.396,"text":"台灣的台中那我們也把他搶下來非常好 謝謝次長跟台學協那接下來我們次長問一下肥料供應的部分"},{"start":8673.122,"end":8701.081,"text":"市長昨天農糧署跟我們說今年三月的戰爭風險提高之後原物料的供應跟庫存的頻率現在從每個月的檢視提高到每週來檢視目前尿素應該可以支撐到半年左右年底應該是無雨但是我們擔心的是除了庫存之外就是擔心恐慌造成的搶購物價可能就被哄抬現在有沒有掌握到這樣子的狀況"},{"start":8702.288,"end":8727.37,"text":"有 謝謝委員關心因為其實在肥料的原物料這塊其實我們都一直有在盤點那也就像委員說的至少在半年內一直到年底這個原料是沒問題啦 這供應是夠的那對於我們國內肥料供應最大宗的就是台肥那我們也跟台肥這邊有取得共識就是說對於第一線農民需要使用的這些肥料我們就是不漲價那吸收當然由台肥跟政府這邊來協助這個差價的協助 因為"},{"start":8729.091,"end":8758.079,"text":"在第一線的農民這邊如果肥料有漲價對他們來講是非常大的一個負擔所以我們跟台肥有這樣子的協調所以目前台肥的話會吸收這個我們跟台肥就是政府跟台肥會來處理這個肥料的差價的這塊那另外我想知道說現行的肥料補儲大概就是會落在農系跟複合肥料嘛那如果是特殊肥料液態肥料的價格持續偏高那農民可能會考量到說轉向複合肥料那這樣子會不會集中到單一皮箱"},{"start":8758.819,"end":8776.975,"text":"對我們來講其實就是說化學肥料當然有它的效果因為會比較快那也有農民使用上的這個習慣性但是其實我們手頭上其實還有一些有機肥料所以我們覺得就是其實這雙邊這樣的調整其實希望能夠在第一線把農民所需要的這些資材能夠控制在非常穩定的狀況"},{"start":8777.816,"end":8798.957,"text":"好因為哪些可以透過農會系統處理哪些可以透過市場機制處理這個部分再麻煩我們再跟第一線來做哪些是納入這個輔助的範圍的品項這個價格替代肥腫技術輔導這個部分可能就是要跟我們因為其實第一線接觸的都是農會來跟他們再來討論一下因為我擔心這個狀況"},{"start":8802.039,"end":8813.364,"text":"我是希望說可以善用我們的區域糧肥技術來去強化我們的替代施肥還有堆肥利用這個部分那部長這個也跟部長有一點關係"},{"start":8819.247,"end":8840.675,"text":"部長你看這個外交很重要耶外交它跟農業也是直接相關喔所以人人都是外交官部部都是外交部每一個部門也要麻煩外交部幫我們連接起來今天就聽到一個我們未來的離稅從過去我們習以為常的薪稅那個 抱歉 薪卸然後甚至可以到鳥取現我覺得這個都是很好的一個"},{"start":8842.569,"end":8858.898,"text":"再麻煩部長來去幫我們協助一下跟農業這個結合在一起是 報告委員因為農業部有跟我們這個協商我們也在代表處也設了我們農業組也為他們安排了一個"},{"start":8860.772,"end":8888.086,"text":"辦公的地方本來是喬不太出來後來我們農業部長我們跟他們好好的溝通現在也可以共同辦公部長再麻煩鳥取縣跟嘉義用離稅的部分來給他節圓一下讓我們的同時就是我們剛才講的因為現在是高齡化的狀況包含我們台灣跟日本都一樣那我們要他的離稅但是他沒有因為人口老化沒有辦法去採集的話"},{"start":8889.167,"end":8915.225,"text":"怎麼樣來去把整合起來那就是外交部可以去發展的一個方向這個部分再麻煩部長好 我會來寫因為我當台東市長的時候就建立了跟鳥取縣這個跟台東市的就是我任內的有時候持續在交流中我是跟嘉義很適合好啊 那就麻煩部長再麻煩一下了這個離稅的部分我們很關心那再來就是台灣因為剛才講到的中東情勢因為這個遷移法動全身從肥料到這一個整體的"},{"start":8917.026,"end":8932.315,"text":"甚至我們肥料之後就是糧食嘛糧食有可能會出現的問題或者是在我們就講了能源的問題這個是非常嚴峻的那過去這兩個禮拜我已經在跟這個華盛頓郵報還有這個日經亞洲的國際媒體我就已經不斷的在跟他們提出來就是說我們希望"},{"start":8933.235,"end":8957.917,"text":"Pivot to Asia重返亞洲這個事情它必須還是在美方的優先順序裡面我不斷在強調也希望美方能夠聽到那包含昨天跟參議員們的對話我也一再的在強調這件事情因為對台灣來說美國在印太地方的存在它是最好的震懾力那我是希望說部長你們這邊透過外交管道"},{"start":8959.148,"end":8986.44,"text":"我相信共和黨民主黨他們各自有他們的不同的戰略觀但是絕大多數的智庫也好分析師也好都知道這一個世紀美國要面臨的挑戰者絕對不是中型國家像是伊朗或者是已經沒落的強權俄羅斯這個關根本都不是美國的在經濟層面軍事層面安全上面都不是美國的對手那如果美國在持續的分心或者是他的資源"},{"start":8987.58,"end":9015.202,"text":"再稀釋的話那可能他們就有辦法在印太突破那過去中國這一年來你就看到說英國啦這個加拿大等等不斷的來去訪問中國就是這個狀況在外交上面他們也開始出現了他們內部上面的一些問題美國跟這些國家所以我們更要重視美國在印太地區的存在那這個存在我們很擔心那就是沒有人再把這個管道再透過這個管道再去強調這件事情"},{"start":9017.023,"end":9033.675,"text":"因為每一個佈置在部署在印太的軍事資源就少一個部署在印太的資源這我一直在強調的我們還是希望部長可不可以簡單來回覆一下有沒有這個有沒有方向怎麼樣來去跟美方來去談這件事情"},{"start":9034.868,"end":9053.264,"text":"報告委員 因為川普總統是第二任在第二任他的政策也都很明朗了在安全上當然就是NDS跟NSS這兩個主要的國防跟安全的報告就奠定了我想"},{"start":9053.644,"end":9077.259,"text":"印太還是美國最重要的一個區域印太司令部我想跟整個第一島鏈還有周邊國家的關係我想台灣當然沒有在集體安全的組織裡面我們跟美國只有台灣關係法六項保證可是跟其他國家的鏈接是有很多的小多邊在進行這也是委員很關心"},{"start":9078.2,"end":9094.908,"text":"所以我覺得大的政策方向那當然也反映在這個包括現在軍售軍購的重視上面那只是說要責任分攤那在這個完之上呢我們是覺得經濟跟安全已經密切相關所以我想川普總統透過關稅投資還有供應鏈重組啊是有把"},{"start":9098.65,"end":9122.348,"text":"台灣編織進來它的再工業化這個整個戰略裡面所以我是覺得我們先前也許有一些人會擔心或不確定性很高但現在已經比較明朗那我們應該做些什麼就是根據這個大的國家的戰略我們就是來操之在己的部分我們就全力以赴那其他的國家的關係我們就做好這個一起來協調部長推動"},{"start":9123.669,"end":9145.919,"text":"我覺得講得很好 但是我覺得還是希望傳達我們的擔憂就是希望他們盡量的 盡速的重返印太所以我們來講是我們的最大國家利益嘛對 這個部分還是希望他們能轉達希望你們轉達一下謝謝好 謝謝謝謝陳委員的發言下面我們請馬文君委員質詢馬委員"},{"start":9155.896,"end":9157.359,"text":"謝謝主席,麻煩請林部長好,有請林部長"},{"start":9166.545,"end":9188.7,"text":"部長早剛剛有提到就是說我們國防預算的部分我們擔心會被操弄其實這個不用擔心只要我們自己不操弄沒有人可以操弄我們所以就這個部分我們只要把握核心的原則因為尤其在國防預算上面我們希望所有納稅人"},{"start":9189.941,"end":9213.682,"text":"辛苦的血汗錢用所當用然後我們的特別預算也不要腐爛因為它畢竟就是跟子孫借錢的所以只要我們採購的是符合我們作戰需求它是最重要的一個原則所以就這樣子也才是我們審查的重點所以不用刻意去要把中共啦或者美國啊全部都通通扯進來我們要的就是我們的"},{"start":9217.125,"end":9237.821,"text":"最重要的我們的國防戰力的需求我想我們不要自己嘲弄自己這個可能才是重點那另外就是在CPTPP的部分因為最近也被拿出來討論本席其實也觀察到我們在近期其實在很多包括業務報告啊或者其他的"},{"start":9239.122,"end":9254.766,"text":"可能有些相關的資訊上面其實CPTPP近期都沒有談了那台灣經濟跟產業高度依賴出口這個很重要的政府都把加入CPTPP這個亞太主要的區域經貿組織當成重要的施政目標可是我們看到目前為止其實這11個成員國裡面跟台灣貿易往來其實也非常密切總共佔我國對外貿易總額的25.25%"},{"start":9268.049,"end":9271.971,"text":"也是占比很高那成員國當中的日本、新加坡、馬來西亞跟越南也是我國前十大貿易夥伴不管是政府或者到產業其實他們都非常關注我們是不是可以順利的加入然後它對產業會帶來的影響跟衝擊也可以希望透過加入CPTPP可以來提升台灣出口的競爭力"},{"start":9293.9,"end":9304.725,"text":"那為了爭取加入這樣的組織我們政府在之前其實大概也做了一些事推動了萊豬的進口而且告訴我們的民眾因為在CPTPP組織中的國家所有成員國都開放萊豬進口所以這是國際規範我們也必須要這麼做"},{"start":9314.969,"end":9334.533,"text":"在台灣萊豬是一個食品安全上面的議題過去民進黨在野的時候也極力的反對所有相關萊豬萊牛的進口可是現在加大宣傳向人民保證說這是我們可能要加入國際組織一個很重要的一個承諾那我們也開放了那CPTPP"},{"start":9342.216,"end":9353.443,"text":"的部分我們除了萊豬開放以外我們也有很多根本還沒有經過協商的部分可是行政院已經向立法院提出12項修法的草案而且也都在民進黨當時人數強勢的情況之下都通過了包括修改農業管理法"},{"start":9363.59,"end":9365.292,"text":"把農藥的試驗資料保護期延長從上市開始起算十年非常長的時間然後修改漁業法還有投資經營外國籍漁船管理條例我們甚至有很多我們漁民的權益都把它犧牲掉了我們因為我們修過了"},{"start":9383.411,"end":9385.755,"text":"那另外又新訂了遠洋漁業條例就這些還有修改化妝品衛生安全管理法等等減少進口化妝品的標示這些我們已經都通過了還有包括萊豬的進口"},{"start":9398.695,"end":9416.589,"text":"可是我們現在看到CPTPP如果不是我們的金包夥談判副總談判代表他在他的辭職信上顯露出來的其實大家都還被蒙在鼓裡所以我們希望知道的是政府"},{"start":9417.25,"end":9445.957,"text":"一直在做很多的開放我們減少關稅我們甚至主動降了很多很多周邊國家包括日本我們很多的關稅主動把它甚至降到一半以上以下就是原來假設20我們甚至只剩下10這個犧牲都已經做出來了可是我們現在看起來我們沒有任何在CPTPP上面有的進展那這一部分部長有沒有說明"},{"start":9448.228,"end":9471.342,"text":"報告委員這個新DPP的重要性跟我們的努力我想大家也都了解那至於說進展怎麼樣現在可能在一個地方就是說成立工作小組之前有一個可以雙邊諮商這個是在加拿大做主席國的時候通過的那因為行政院有個經貿談判辦公室他必須去統合"},{"start":9472.483,"end":9496.534,"text":"整體的談判策略 因為這要從戰略的角度這不是個別一般貿易的問題部長 你要說的不是我要的答案我們剛剛提到在就是那個原副總談判代表他說得非常清楚我們根本就沒有努力在CPTPP上面去加入的這樣子的一個進程"},{"start":9498.015,"end":9522.294,"text":"所以這是他覺得非常可惜或者他遺憾的地方這也是他提出來強力訴求的地方也是我們今天要討論的我們沒有要我們過去跟民眾講也是講這些所以部長我們要的不是你剛剛提的那些答案而是怎麼樣具體的要去做他的推展這個部分簡單就回的方向就好因為你們在預算上面都有編喔包括WTO是不是簡單說一下我說在外交部我當部長之後"},{"start":9527.418,"end":9551.78,"text":"我派了三個次長到像去年是澳大利亞做主席國然後也去日本也去英國那我是有整體的我認為我們是執行單位在整個經貿談判現在外交部變成我們的外館要跟人家交涉可是我剛剛講的是要有一個上面指導的戰略然後整合我們跨部會的能量然後很鎖定有對象國家比如假設今年是越南"},{"start":9552.481,"end":9566.912,"text":"那這個我們跟台越整個經貿發展戰略裡面去談怎麼樣互惠因為我們都知道有中國的因素然後各國也不願意去得罪中國的時候我們怎麼去突圍這個就是我想顏惠欣副總台辦代表"},{"start":9567.492,"end":9590.97,"text":"他認為提到的我覺得這個也是指出了包括機制上一個任務編組跟真的把它制度化 但是能量是不一樣第二個就是說所謂我們的談判戰略的指導才有我們雙邊關係的交涉我們外交部是在整個經貿談判裡面是在變成是一個我們有駐外的外館我們去交涉可是上位的東西必須要有"},{"start":9591.61,"end":9614.43,"text":"部長我相信因為你有特別提過在CPTPP也許外交部其實是有用心可是楊真你完全不重視就在這個實質性裡面清楚的揭示這樣子的一個狀況所以我們要很明確的知道說大家要怎麼樣去共同的一個推動而不是告訴我們"},{"start":9615.311,"end":9620.975,"text":"當我們我們剛剛講我們犧牲那麼多付出那麼多把關稅持續的下降以後我們接下來的成員接下來的一個主辦主席國是越南我們也說越南現在台商在當地有很多的投資台越的交流也非常頻繁如果我們剛剛提到的包括加拿大包括像越南這樣我們都還沒有我們在之前付出這麼多以後在這樣子的一個條件優勢底下我們都還沒有任何的一個作為"},{"start":9645.391,"end":9659.167,"text":"最讓人家不可以接受而且最可惡的就是他們根本不在乎我們從他的辭職信上面看到楊真女他完全不在乎的情況這是我們不能接受的當國人"},{"start":9660.148,"end":9664.57,"text":"要犧牲這麼多的情況底下所以就這個部分因為中國的因素始終存在如果中國的因素我們就認為沒有辦法克服那我們就不要去再編這麼多的預算交出這些啊就這個部分我們希望外交部就這個部分必須強力的要求而且經貿經濟部今天也在這裡就這個部分我們要求不要再晃點我們所有的國人"},{"start":9688.121,"end":9690.685,"text":"當你用掉大家那麼多的經費的時候全部都在打假球會讓大家不能接受所以就這個部分CPTPP我們持續請外交部再提供給我們相關的這些作為那"},{"start":9703.781,"end":9722.757,"text":"這個進展到底怎麼樣再提供書面資料好不好那經濟部可能就這個部分也可以提供我們相關的後續他的處置作為謝謝那另外駐美大使他現在已經變成職場霸凌的最高等剛剛因為他不是第一次"},{"start":9724.238,"end":9742.604,"text":"這個問題已經越來越嚴重所以我們希望部長可以慎重的去考慮這個部分因為這個第二次發生外交部掌握了解的狀況到底是什麼剛剛部長有稍微提到可是我們還在等這些管員要循機制去提出來嗎"},{"start":9743.524,"end":9763.559,"text":"因為我們都說要外交部對於這一次的事件有說持續要求各駐外管處的首長落實妥善管理及領導責任問題是被檢舉霸凌的人就是首長那我們應該要怎麼做他的處理程序是什麼有沒有比較簡單的一個做法因為"},{"start":9766.161,"end":9782.095,"text":"在根據媒體提出的具體事證裡面有三項第一個就是餐廳打包的菜色不如預期把主管降至副主管這是第一點第二個他的妻子在官邸換掉清潔工至少20個服務他的外交人員至少5個人"},{"start":9783.616,"end":9802.909,"text":"然後第三個家眷進出辦公室對官邸服務不周到在辦公室大罵文官第三項也許你們需要再做一些調查因為他的因素不是那麼主觀可是剛剛說的第一項跟第二項是不是有把主管降成副主管這個部分很明確有沒有"},{"start":9804.383,"end":9833.096,"text":"有一個這樣的案例但是是有事證也經過法定的程序所以我並不認為說人事的升遷然後因為個人的事情因為這沒有正式申訴那是外傳我也不希望說打擊我們外交部整個我們的行政的程序所以有申訴我們一定全力來辦沒有申訴我會主動來了解但是不能夠因為有一些涉案的人或者是私底下或是另外的再去轉傳"},{"start":9834.136,"end":9839.778,"text":"這樣子的話我們每一個館長在現場我們同意部長就這一個部分因為我說這個很明確嘛你就是主管變成副主管他到底是什麼因素這個你們去查查以後這個會很具體那第二個清潔工換掉20個這個也非常嚴重因為老實說清潔工他可以有什麼除非非常懶惰那你怎麼用的全部都是報告委員在美國你要去找一個清潔工恐怕都要拜託來"},{"start":9859.985,"end":9860.908,"text":"所以用說20個我們會請人事處好好去了解是哪20個"},{"start":9866.657,"end":9890.086,"text":"這個部分因為 要拜託來的那如果是這樣 汰換的程度這麼嚴重我想這個部分也去查 因為這個很明確嘛你外交人員去服務的需要五個人外交的工作非常辛苦如果在這些雜務或甚至不相干的事務上面有受到霸凌的狀況 那不是第一次如果這些聲音我們只聽"},{"start":9891.767,"end":9899.053,"text":"一個說法那可能還會有第三次因為我們上一次已經有經歷過一次所以不要因為他是誰的人或者有什麼樣的考量不管他是不是因為美國人是比較特殊那他是專任的還有什麼其他的考量"},{"start":9907.901,"end":9921.8,"text":"這個都不能影響到我們對於職場上面受到霸凌的不管是同事也好或者其他人員也好這個都不能影響這些這是基本的要求所以就這個部分我們希望不是只有聽片面的"},{"start":9923.201,"end":9937.319,"text":"應該要怎麼樣有具體的一個事證或者要去查查清楚不要再發生憾事以後再回過頭來想要做什麼樣的彌補那時候哭都沒有用所以就這個部分是不是請部長可以再去做一些具體的一個"},{"start":9938.588,"end":9965.882,"text":"對 我們對於職場霸凌 零容忍請大家如果有管道申訴沒有的話我們也會主動來了解那有些個案剛剛已經有提到比較具體的話那讓委員所指示的我們會來幫他釐清好 謝謝不要只聽首長這樣不好意思 再利用一點時間因為我們這個WTO其實也是很重要那我們這一次因為美國現在已經把關稅工具"},{"start":9966.963,"end":9983.712,"text":"的工具它把它戰略化那這樣的模式正在重塑整個世界台灣也不是一個可以自由去簽訂大量的FTA或者去主導這個經濟秩序的我們也不是這樣的一個角色或國家所以就這個部分我們認為事態是非常嚴重的"},{"start":9988.815,"end":9992.998,"text":"就WTO的部分 我們在國際經貿的體系當中 最重要的立足點從來就不是政治的影響力我們這一次因為名稱 名稱我們要據理力爭 沒有錯可是我們因為這樣的因素 然後主動缺席這個對我們來說影響很大因為我們主要是制度上的定位 我們的政治影響力其實是很弱"},{"start":10012.614,"end":10028.974,"text":"那WTO其實就是少數讓台灣能夠以正式會員身份去參與甚至主張權利而且要求非歧視待遇的一個國際平台所以這一次沒有出席WTO部長會議的意義不能只是看成民生的爭議而已"},{"start":10029.995,"end":10032.978,"text":"表面上是尊嚴的問題那其實也做了修正可是我們後來卻因為他名字寫錯或者性別寫錯我們還是沒有出席這個對我們來說會讓全球唯一一個台灣可以制度性參與的多邊貿易的這個場域我們自己去限縮我們選擇缺席那已經把我們有限的這樣子的一個制度空間我們把它縮小了"},{"start":10056.758,"end":10058.08,"text":"這對我們來說影響很大你有第一次 你有那下一次如果還其他國家還是發生這樣的事那我們就都還不要參加嗎部長剛剛其實也有委員提到韓國的問題你比之前的部長其實更敢有作為啦至少"},{"start":10072.375,"end":10088.234,"text":"你對韓國提出有其他的一個就是因應的一個處置作為那現在聽起來好像他們也願意做改變那如果像這樣子WTO這個是更嚴重的問題我們卻選擇缺席"},{"start":10091.878,"end":10096.603,"text":"讓人家不可思議因為在現在多邊的體系正在碎片化其他的國家都可以透過像這些FTA或地緣政治的聯盟他們都還有第二個選項他們還有B計畫可是台灣沒有"},{"start":10108.875,"end":10116.637,"text":"所以我們在WTO對台灣的重要性它不是關稅減讓而已它很重要的非歧視待遇 第一個第二個 規則的保障第三個 是可預測性所以當這些我們自己把經貿問題把它政治化以後對台灣會有什麼樣的影響這個部分是不是簡單的部長可以簡單的回應我是同意委員我們要窮盡一切可能爭取出席"},{"start":10136.321,"end":10153.308,"text":"但這次為什麼最後沒有出席雖然我們書面資料也有倒查秘書處也有代為分發那最主要是說他要入境他這個入境除了矮化之外就是說因為我們沒有免簽那這個國家其實說實在也比較不是一個法治的國家"},{"start":10153.948,"end":10182.768,"text":"那因此在這處理上他又沒有給我們正確的邀請函以前有一個解決方案就是說你的邀請函裡面就是以平等待我那他一開始沒有可是後來他表達他要補足這個資料可是時間已經很接近那有一些行政上的困難等等所以我是同意委員我也跟我的同仁講我們的外交處境很困難就算拿著抗議中的牌子我也要到會場"},{"start":10184.219,"end":10201.114,"text":"因為說實在啦我們不用我們尷尬是不尷尬他就尷尬但是有時候連入境都有困難的時候啊這恐怕就不是在其他的國際的場合我們可以比較去用比較屬於抗議或比較甚至一種比較幽默的方式去表達"},{"start":10201.454,"end":10217.59,"text":"現在我們因為我剛剛提到其實WTO對台灣來說是非常重要的所以如果我們這樣子連這樣子一個這麼重要的一個我們可以參與的國際平台像這樣我們都至於缺席因為你可以透過很多其他的方式"},{"start":10218.371,"end":10243.263,"text":"未來如果其他國家也持續有這樣的做法的時候我們難道就一直頭腦不清所以我向委員報告就是說我們就是記取這一次的經驗我們就是要求以後要主辦國都必須先承諾而且這承諾不只對我要對WO的秘書處那也要讓這些大國們支持台灣的他們也了解所以我們不要希望這個事情我們不希望它再發生"},{"start":10244.143,"end":10249.326,"text":"因為時間的關係這個部分我們還是持續認為我們不要把它擴大在政治上的考量應該要怎麼樣去要求或者因為每日都出手了那還是沒辦法那以後我們的處境會越來越艱難這個部分有什麼樣的一個比較具體的做法也希望在下一次的一個報告當中其實可以把它明確的提出來好不好謝謝"},{"start":10270.58,"end":10284.225,"text":"好 謝謝馬文君委員的發言部長您喝口水下一位我們請洪孟凱委員質詢好 謝謝好 主席謝謝 麻煩請林部長就請林部長謝謝"},{"start":10298.629,"end":10312.831,"text":"部長好 本席在這邊也跟剛剛馬文君委員還有很多委員共同關心都一樣先講 我覺得很為我們外交部同仁報不平也為我們朝野委員在過去這段時間裡面"},{"start":10314.895,"end":10341.231,"text":"大有為的政府告訴我們是說萊豬一定要進口如果沒有進口的話會有設定這個障礙沒有辦法加入CPTPP2021年那時候陳吉仲 王美花都跳出來講是說這個是一個很嚴重的障礙好 通過之後從2021年到現在2026年這四年多很多外交場合跟很多我們外交部的同仁我們只要接見或者是說出去參訪"},{"start":10343.206,"end":10370.811,"text":"國際的議會的議員我們也都講啊外交部提供給我們委員的談餐也都講說拜託最後一定要寫一定要講請貴國政府支持我們中華民國加入CPTPP所以外交部我們委員不分草野藍綠大家都希望能夠把握每一個機會發言甚至我剛剛也看到英國這兩天也有代表團來然後外交部長也有跟他們希望能夠加入CPTPP嘛"},{"start":10371.913,"end":10399.269,"text":"對 九個國會議員那結果CPTPP主要推動主責的單位是誰行政院經貿談判辦公室那行政院經貿談判辦公室居然有我們一位高階的文官 嚴慧心女士她在最後 其實她的辭職信看完之後你真的覺得是說她是保留她最後文官的尊嚴一個"},{"start":10400.68,"end":10424.128,"text":"高考及格在政府單位裡面做了幾十年的文官並且他的父親也是我們過去很資深的一個警官結果到最後居然變成是說他要要辭職的時候他要把他的這一些大白話給講出來然後講消極敷衍沒有具體的計畫沒有具體的時程外交部之前知道嗎"},{"start":10426.035,"end":10442.197,"text":"我們外交部該做的我們都全力以赴所以外交部之前也不知道說經貿辦事處到底在幹嘛我們只知道是說只要面對到每一個國際單位面對到各國代表來我們都要講CPTPP到最後好像變成是西反社士嘛"},{"start":10443.39,"end":10472.247,"text":"那但是外交部也不知道說經貿辦公室根本沒有具體的計畫經貿談判策略要有OTN所以看來部長你也不清楚嘛所以你也不用幫他們背書嘛但是看起來就是我覺得今天我一定要用這個機會再幫我們外交部同仁報部評應該主責負責的單位沒有具體的計畫沒有具體的時程沒有具體的成果敷衍消極然後我們其他人在前面衝"},{"start":10473.919,"end":10499.948,"text":"不覺得很莫名其妙嗎 政府還是被一體打部長我們外交部啊 比如說派三個次長啊到達澳大利亞 日本跟英國去交涉因為這三個國家最重要嘛之前的主席國是加拿大 我們也全力在溝通可是我剛剛講說因為上位的談判策略啊因為這不是一般的經貿談判 因為涉及到政治因為中國的因素 大家所以這個時候怎麼樣去 部長"},{"start":10501.428,"end":10528.868,"text":"所以本席要講的是我們到目前為止都肯定我們外交部的同仁所以我講是說過去這四年我們朝野委員也都很努力你們給我們的談餐我幾乎都有留著每一次的最後一定都講尤其是我們日本的國會議員來最後一定都有一整頁寫說請拜託委員不分朝野藍綠都要跟日本的國會議員美國國會議員拜託他們支持中華民國加入CPTPP但是"},{"start":10529.881,"end":10549.505,"text":"將帥無能累死三軍啊外交部現在也被累死啊現在遇到一個奧克蘭三原則怎麼去突圍現在講你這邊可以掌握的狀況那當然大戰略還是要整體那現在就是沒有戰略啊所以消極敷衍嘛來 部長現在講你可以掌握的狀況駐美代表"},{"start":10552.739,"end":10570.208,"text":"他2024年已經發生過一次爭議了那當時我記得外交國防委員會我們也有要求是說那他是不是回來這個他每一年每半年這些代表其實也都有回國報告的狀況的時候能不能來外交國防委員會當時沒有讓他回來嘛"},{"start":10570.851,"end":10596.831,"text":"那到現在2026年 因為那個指號剛好正在這個進行一些 我想對美那沒關係 我覺得部長 我很持平的來看我對這個駐美代表完全不認識但我覺得空穴不來風還有以我對於民進黨政府說實在話我們國人也一定程度了解如果今天這個駐美代表再被爆出說霸凌再被爆出說換20個傭人的這些事件"},{"start":10599.873,"end":10628.027,"text":"如果說不是事實或說沒有事實基礎的話你們早就已經講說這個是中共的陰謀啦這是假訊息啦這是認知作戰啦但到目前為止沒有欸到目前為止沒有人講說這個不是事實欸你們只講說會再調查會再了解欸我覺得這很嚴重 為什麼部長我跟你很持平很客觀我們黨派不同但是很嚴重的是因為駐美代表代表我們中華民國"},{"start":10629.517,"end":10651.226,"text":"他就是最重要的一個溝通管道如果說他在那邊天高皇帝遠作威作福然後吃香喝辣我覺得美國人也沒有辦法接受啊怎麼會中華民國你們派來一個官員是這個樣子那你不要跟我講說什麼過去這個美國傭人不好找那如果這樣的話蕭美琴駐美代表以前有換20個傭人嗎"},{"start":10653.544,"end":10670.515,"text":"以前馬政府時代的時候最有名我們金補充代表有換20個傭人嗎沒有啊那一樣都是在美國那為什麼 因為那個都是網路跟媒體轉傳有待查證你看有待查證嘛你也不敢講不是假消息你也不敢講認知作戰嘛就是因為我太了解你們了嘛我們"},{"start":10673.277,"end":10693.978,"text":"知道是好事我們說不算如果說今天真的沒有任何的事實基礎的話早就府 院 黨 青鳥 側翼 網軍全部出來講這個是認真作戰 這個是假消息不要陷入中共的陷阱但在這一次沒有而已經被爆第二次"},{"start":10695.296,"end":10722.842,"text":"所以現在有媒體才講是說如果他現在沒有辦法短時間回來接受外交國防委員會接受立法院的質詢能不能用視訊能不能好好的請他也面對國內的媒體他自己出來否認自清反駁讓我們知道是說所有的外交同仁在國外也都是為我們中華民國努力捍衛而不是做威做福吃香喝辣有可能嗎"},{"start":10725.558,"end":10748.493,"text":"可不可以下一次 我想如果說可以的話 召委絕對不會反對我們下一次就馬上就排外交國防委員會可不可以用視訊的方式來跟駐美代表來去做一個了解行嗎這可能要根據立法委員行使法還有有關於相關的規定部長你做過立法委員你算是我們立法院的學長"},{"start":10750.643,"end":10774.937,"text":"你當時也是在野黨的委員如果說現在一個執政黨的駐美代表已經連兩次爆發這樣的事件那為什麼不是報駐日代表為什麼不是報駐泰代表為什麼不是報駐新代表那尤其美國又最重要其實報告委員齁其實提的這網路傳的這幾件事情以前都報過了"},{"start":10776.246,"end":10805.626,"text":"只是現在把它又放在一起了當然我們還是要去釐清我們也鼓勵正式的申訴如果不放心 我個人的心想我現在是很無奈的笑是因為你這樣講是很適度啊始終不怕開水燙了解 一定要釐清報第一次 大家重視2024年很重視第二次 第三次 第四次沒關係啦 都報過了啦所以我成不成見也沒關係反正駐美代表天高皇帝遠啊那他想怎麼樣吃香喝辣"},{"start":10806.786,"end":10829.845,"text":"那就我沒意見啊我部長都自己都在國內都不敢這樣子了結果一個駐美代表在那邊可以這樣然後傳的風風火火傳的真的就像是鉅細迷離也沒有辦法澄清也沒有辦法自清我不要冤枉任何人啊但現在連讓他自己面對媒體面對國人說明說他沒有這樣的事情也都不敢也都不肯也都不願意嗎"},{"start":10831.869,"end":10854.355,"text":"不會說不願意啦 應該是願意啦我想如果適當的方式 人家外界的質疑說明那應該是要來說明部長 你也很無奈吧那方式我想就是說因為傳起來 那個也不是你的人嘛過去傳過啦 當然有些是大家現在把它放在一起那我想委員或是有這個關切 我們都應該要加以說明"},{"start":10856.069,"end":10868.849,"text":"部長有時間到但是我真的很與眾心長啦講這麼多我只想強調的是外交部的同仁我對外交部的同仁我其實有多一份的尊重跟多一份的"},{"start":10869.844,"end":10893.009,"text":"包容是因為我國的外交處境都不容易但就正因為如此如果有任何人站在那麼重要的位置他可以在吃香喝辣可以這樣子用職務來霸凌然後只仗著說他是誰的人只仗著說他跟誰派系好然後誰都管不到我覺得這樣子真的是中華民國悲哀"},{"start":10894.161,"end":10904.588,"text":"我也不樂見這樣的狀況那我更不希望是說讓媒體報導說好像變成是外交部長管不動一個駐美代表因為那個駐美代表老闆根本不是外交部長部長真的加油啦謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請沈博洋委員上台質詢"},{"start":10937.1,"end":10942.983,"text":"謝謝主席我先請經濟部次長請經濟部次長好 次長好這個其實跟我之前這個案件有點類似我記得之前在經濟委員會的時候有問過淘寶等等相關的那時候有得到一些答覆後續也有做一些處理這一次我想問的是瑞幸咖啡"},{"start":10963.573,"end":10989.52,"text":"就是說因為目前按照這個瑞幸咖啡的這個說法就是經濟部也有講說他說這個是這個若是透過代理商進入台灣屬於這種商業行為那就沒有辦法去用投審會來處理那但是到底是怎樣這個我現在還不是很清楚是不是我可能請次長稍微說明一下現在瑞幸咖啡的狀況是 謝謝委員關心那瑞幸咖啡它是之前"},{"start":10990.908,"end":11009.711,"text":"有透過在台灣的公司我應該這樣講台灣的有一家公司有在申請這個公司的設立那我們也同意了後來呢這個台灣的這家公司呢就有表達就是他希望能夠"},{"start":11010.96,"end":11039.387,"text":"代理銳信透過新加坡代理銳信所以呢我們跟這家台灣的公司有一直保持密切的聯絡因為對於這個這家台灣公司跟新加坡商他之間的關係到底是什麼樣子而且他們也有簽訂相關的合約所以我們現在還在繼續的了解中他們那個契約的內容非常的多所以我們在逐項的在了解"},{"start":11040.067,"end":11063.699,"text":"這個要麻煩經濟部,因為畢竟雖然他說是咖啡,但比如說像瑞幸咖啡在中國它有APP嘛,那就算沒有APP,比如說你要加入它的會員,它會員也會有台灣人的資料。所以無論如何它一定會有跟我們國人的隱私要如何保障的問題。那如果說單純的中資,其實投審會來處理什麼之類的,這個我覺得目前來講我們的機制已經越來越完善。"},{"start":11064.159,"end":11079.881,"text":"但如果是按照就像剛剛您講這個如果是用代理的方式這個相關的這個規範這個審查當然可以有內規但是我們顯得法律有沒有不足的地方就是有沒有可能就是需要更多的法源才有讓經濟部有辦法處理像類似像這樣的事務"},{"start":11081.103,"end":11106.837,"text":"資安的部分個資的部分也是我們非常的關心所以我們也有在詢問台灣的這家公司到底他跟新加坡商有談到是否會仿效這個瑞幸在中國的使用APP的部分我們還在等台灣的這家公司給我們回覆資安絕對是我們要資安等於國安所以這個部分還有個資的部分"},{"start":11107.897,"end":11123.762,"text":"這是一定我們會很堅持的因為這個就是說真的就是說這個就我之後還會繼續在追這一題然後那但是我覺得像你說TikTok他也是說他在新加坡但我們背後我們也都知道他的自己的跳動其實在後面是佔有實質的這個影響力"},{"start":11125.723,"end":11153.149,"text":"我現在看他如果說他在台灣不管他的logo什麼之類如果他跟中國都是一樣的那等於又說他用一個新加坡然後又說他要帶然後又從台灣來走代理但是問題是他背後很有可能就還是中國那所以這個部分除了我們要釐清有沒有中國以外他的隱私要怎麼保障這兩個層次我們可能都要來釐清那這個之後可能再到經濟委員會或者說到辦公室我們再來繼續持續追這件事情我覺得國人的隱私要保護這真的非常的重要是"},{"start":11154.509,"end":11159.512,"text":"那謝謝 主席我再請外交部 謝謝 請部長請部長部長好 喂好那我相信今天很多人都是要問霸凌相關的這個事情新聞報導什麼等等之類的這個我待會晚一點再說因為我覺得有幾件比較重要的事情我想先問第一個就是這一個"},{"start":11182.383,"end":11208.024,"text":"這個卡麥隆就是說現在這一個我剛看前面的委員有提到就是說因為我們缺席這一個WTO的這一個部長會議那確實啦這怎麼看都是一個中國的施壓那我認為啦就是說在過往我們在這個2758號其實也是打了漂亮的一仗那現在呢中國還是持續用這樣的一個方式去矮化台灣的一個國格目前外交部對此事的應對是如何"},{"start":11209.08,"end":11229.756,"text":"對這事情就是說我們當然積極爭取那也要有堅定的立場但是我們也要預防未來再發生就這個部分因為大家在交涉的過程包括WTO的秘書處還有包括各國都其實表達關切但是柯麥隆他就是吃了剩腿鐵了心因為你要入境"},{"start":11231.017,"end":11248.063,"text":"你必須要經過他的海關啊那好那後來要補救嘛發個邀請函至少讓我們有一個對不對符合我們身份的可是這個時候就錯誤擺出所以時間一直在過所以我們的方式就是我們把資料先送進去包括我們的書面的所有的報告我們的立場"},{"start":11248.843,"end":11276.08,"text":"那也表達抗議然後也要求未來包括秘書處都要針對申請主辦國必須承諾不能夠違反相關規定所以有的時候危機也是轉機我們把它轉為未來不會再發生的一個契機所以這件事情的處理我們是確實是有整體上考慮到我們的目標然後我們的攻防那最後這個結果當然我們也表達抗議不能接受可是我們讓它以後不會再發生"},{"start":11277.361,"end":11296.292,"text":"那我覺得這件事情我認為是處理的好就是說以這件事情來講我們外交部絕對不能自私立場那你看這個標題這個自由社會標題有說外交部說這個一中沒有論誤導國際社會那我現在我發現就是當然一中沒有論就是最主要是中國在傳遞這個一中沒有論但我看在台灣講一中沒有論的人也不少"},{"start":11297.112,"end":11313.142,"text":"就是說這一個他說這個全球都挺一中這是鄭麗文說的那他講這個所謂的全球我就來看這個新加坡這邊的這個非營利組織這個學者他就有講他說去整理各國的文件他就放些這個所謂的"},{"start":11314.683,"end":11333.396,"text":"這個所謂的一中原則然後呢一個中國的政策這兩個的差異他發現在各國的文件裡面真正有recognize說啊這一個中國是唯一的合法政府而且台灣把台灣放在中國的一部分根本就不是他們常常宣稱的一百八十幾國而是五十一國而已"},{"start":11334.076,"end":11359.482,"text":"所以這一個論述其實很重要就是說2758號那一次的戰役我剛剛前面有提到我們把這個法律的論述裁文而且很多國家站在我們這一邊嘛那現在我們是又再提出在外交上對方講的這個一中論述有問題然後也不是每一個國家都同意而且看起來是很多國家並沒有採取這個立場對 所以這個有點像假訊息啦所謂的什麼一中是全球共識"},{"start":11361.124,"end":11376.652,"text":"有些國家跟中共建交的時候都還沒有二七五八號決議而且有些國家其實就是沒有一中政策不要講一中原則很多的國家包括G7裡面也有甚至有些國家說那你要有一個中國你要有一個印度政策"},{"start":11377.432,"end":11400.132,"text":"那對台灣來講我們在國際上就避免跟一中有什麼牽扯不管什麼一中政策很容易變成一公原則這也是為什麼現在國際包括G7的這些首長會議都宣布的時候他們在談都不談在談不太用一中因為會被扭曲你沒講的話中共都把你放進你的嘴巴了何況你去講的一中然後你接的是政策他接的是原則所以日方"},{"start":11400.632,"end":11426.384,"text":"比如說或像英國或像這些其實很多包括印度等其實大家都不願意順從中共那樣子扭曲因為他會得寸進尺他會無中生有然後最後就用這個東西來給你霸凌然後因為他說實在他是像流氓一樣的用作法很多人沒有不想要跟他整天在爭吵所以就導致他到全球南方所以這51個國家其實很多"},{"start":11429.125,"end":11438.332,"text":"根本都不瞭解什麼一中兩中三中啊都完全不瞭解了就在你中國去講啦就是連這五十一個都很多事加起來你就給他好處啦那些國家你就替我寫就好了所以不能夠用什麼一個中國這個什麼什麼東西是國際的共識這個沒有這個事情"},{"start":11447.419,"end":11472.714,"text":"對 所以我覺得因為這是2758他們現在發現越來越多國家反對他又又回來要講這個所謂的一中那一中我們在應對的方式剛剛部長其實我覺得講得非常的清楚但我覺得國內真的是很多人會去應和這樣的論述那就拜託我們這樣的論述我們是要開展就是我們對於這件事情的外交的方式我跟委員補充一下九二共識這個字眼是什麼出來的 兩千年嘛第一次政壤輪替嘛"},{"start":11473.194,"end":11492.823,"text":"那1992年有講92公司嗎 沒有2758號決議最近跑出來嘛就是因為中共的一中嘛所以大家都要去反制所以美國的國務院就有四點立場然後現在所有的國家包括IPEC很多的這個議會都通過就是在否定中共他用這一種所謂的認知作戰"},{"start":11493.883,"end":11510.693,"text":"其實去扭曲說用法律戰來賦予他武力犯台的基礎跟壓縮我們的國際空間所以為什麼很多國家一開始就說你們台灣一直在講說不要去支持2758決議是什麼東西很多國家根本不知道然後結果歐洲議會那些議員去看之後發現150個字裡面沒有出現台灣所以這是一個假的東西然後稻草人然後可以講久了變成 謊話說100遍變真的嗎其實這只要一個氣球你只要一個針把它戳破"},{"start":11522.419,"end":11550.604,"text":"大家了解之後可是因為全球南方很多國家沒機會了解因為他就附從中國嘛我們台灣不能去附從中國真的我們要刺破對方的謊言有一個前提就是我們還是要趕快審總預算不然的話你那個那個針連買針的錢都沒有因為我們要刺破對方的技巧就國王的新衣沒有穿但是他一直國王說他有穿我們知道很多人就說你穿好漂亮久了他也覺得他是國王有穿新衣就是沒有穿衣服"},{"start":11552.382,"end":11580.741,"text":"因為時間到了那接下來就是說今天很多人在關心這個霸凌的問題那我剛剛因為前面大家已經提很多我就不重複那我剛剛有聽到部長應該是有講到就是說當然新聞報導是新聞報導新聞報導我們要去驗證但是雖然還沒有直接聽到有申訴但就算沒有申訴是不是也會做主動的調查對我們已經有要求了解然後我們人事處也在整個進行了解中OK我覺得這個反應很重要就是說我們不是說要申訴我們就要主動調查我們不容許霸凌"},{"start":11582.502,"end":11606.92,"text":"我們期待就是說如果有申訴我們辦理沒有申訴我們要去了解因為大家在關心了所以我也是有我有得到初步就是針對這個事情的回應那委員們希望說那個余大使他有對外的說明我們也會就請他應該要對外有所說明那這個就是因為有時候有一些批評難免會"},{"start":11608.641,"end":11636.596,"text":"不斷的隱身啦比如說我提到就是外面講到所謂換了20個這個清潔工這個是20個去哪裡找啊但我不能因為這樣子說人家的質疑我們不去釐清我覺得如果有的改進對不對沒有的話我們要盡快讓國人知道啦我覺得這才是最重要的事情我覺得作為政府的官員我們就是要讓國人知道現在政府做了哪些進度違和我認為這是重要的好 那時間到了謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":11640.994,"end":11646.218,"text":"謝謝接下來請謝龍介委員上台質詢主席我請補充 請林部長"},{"start":11671.965,"end":11697.736,"text":"柏庭你好你好很辛苦我家的工作是很辛苦也挑戰性很多啦尤其我們台灣中華民國這八十年來我家的處境就是全門挑戰是但是喔 要不信啦我不能當這個地方去講那個意識形態沒意義啦"},{"start":11701.565,"end":11714.992,"text":"你們就在外面那麼辛苦在拚啊再來當這個年少的對不對 要講很深奧的今天四月初一月二月三月請問你 你跟你的同齡到那裡就很漂亮"},{"start":11719.429,"end":11741.722,"text":"你們有出國訪問嗎?我有出國過,既去既去,既回來回來,既開就開嘛常態性的,就是他還要拖到中午,勤拖中午生大家捏到手鼻鼻,這叫你講中午生,不然是保盲,鄉鎮保盲最高興的你請他照應,對不對,不然把你三八角"},{"start":11745.184,"end":11756.816,"text":"不然就不能送家庭 這樣就難看了所以你剛才在問 你都不想跟人家說 我知道你的正宗下懷 無心的對你最好的"},{"start":11759.499,"end":11786.592,"text":"有啦 進行過啦 新增項目還是要你大願同意啦新增項目好啦 你來找我 我就跟你說新增項目我幫你支持啦那個 副市長 委員 美國這是我們很重要的一個外交的中央不能把派遣的逗陣 管理的逗陣 放卡地盤給大家看尤其下市下徵 去到外國繞過去 這不好"},{"start":11789.452,"end":11804.42,"text":"當然不是你做的 裡面有人他代表啊 我個人對他的個人也沒有意見大家都為了中華民國在做事情啊那麼為什麼在他主席 幾年就在給大家說他八百萬五百塊 開給大家看"},{"start":11818.71,"end":11847.122,"text":"這是你內部 外部的資料是怎麼可以丟出來的好知道啦 我的解讀是說 老總統要把他挖起來 挖不起來他不會說朱祕代表是非常重要的一個角色不經過美國的同意 你就安心要把他挖起來 哪有那麼簡單的但是你沒有到30年 你出來替他定情你會記得嗎 幾年 你出來替他定情"},{"start":11849.824,"end":11853.787,"text":"這就是一個陷阱我們做多久美國以外 日本對我們也很重要你算突破這記憶這我給你簽訂了日本裡面 當時到大陸建高的時候有一個密切那就是中華民國的官員 總統 副總統"},{"start":11879.485,"end":11884.167,"text":"行政議長跟外交部長這四個人不能去訪問大總統擔任副總統的時候去參加安倍首相的家庭這算一個突破歷史第二的突破當然努力很多但是第三個突破"},{"start":11904.858,"end":11921.285,"text":"對他來說這就是美中不足 也沒有對等也沒有尊嚴去到那裡 硬硬硬硬回來還給我們放婚照 他還給我們放公一半就整個安排裡面 沒有我們本來的期待 那麼漂亮這種沒有尊嚴 沒有對等的外交他不是說跟我們做好的台灣有事 就是日本有事為什麼最好會煞車"},{"start":11934.568,"end":11943.995,"text":"有什麼最好的事情 當然你這裡不便說這件事 要說突破 我說怎麼開的照你講 你是安排到一個可以辦宴會的結構但是相對 日本也有接觸的很大的壓力你要體諒對方如果這樣 你看可以彌補嗎 有要求要求一遍嗎"},{"start":11963.083,"end":11971.845,"text":"都已經要重新去看一般救世人家現在在那裡講出第一句安大 要去社務救中 要去參觀一下你有要再安排一遍嗎一般去比較有尊嚴 比較對等中華民國的最高行政首長有要再安排嗎 委員你以前有沒有參考你現在叫我去 我幫你加油 聽到你這樣"},{"start":11994.979,"end":12019.073,"text":"有要再安排一遍嗎?因為那個 左院長就有對外說明這是私人行程私人行程 你回來都說外交大突破跟私人行程我本來是要提案說這個不應該由自己包機啊應該我們給他專機都不為過 怎麼可以讓他花錢咧對不對 不是外交大突破嗎"},{"start":12022.233,"end":12045.644,"text":"給他加油就加油嘛 國家給他開就開 你看一個行政議長 自己又提前 我去看一張圖這樣變成你過去 你對外交安排 這些奴隸主要都幫你摸索不需要嘛 勇敢嘛 面對嘛 但是你的關係 不錯就是不錯嘛在坦白講 所有你去問台灣的鄉親就對了 大家對日本的印象都不錯"},{"start":12048.539,"end":12053.042,"text":"這個管理可以維持,可以突破的時候,你為什麼不敢,勇敢不敢走?為什麼啦?為什麼?你又要安排再多讓道義長,我們的鄉親議長,再多訪問日本嗎?"},{"start":12069.042,"end":12095.689,"text":"不過委員前面的前提說是什麼安排這個我想卓院長已經有對外說明了這是私人行程你沒辦法再安排對他還可以再一個私人行程去關心我們台南子弟在西武隊打棒球的林安可他可以再安排一次私人行程去嗎"},{"start":12097.806,"end":12121.474,"text":"這個委員的意見我們都有會尊重你有沒有要安排沒有啊因為不是我安排的所以委員一直假設這個選舉你外國補充你要給主席代表說啊你沒有要我安排不然你是怎麼可以去你去是什麼地方我自己的我當然是我可以自己安排自己啊你可以再去一遍嗎"},{"start":12123.39,"end":12149.133,"text":"我現在在這裡外交有很多這個非常微妙的地方所以我要講這個我已經講過嘛你確實已經做了一個很重大的突破嘛喔 照理講你回來有準修六年嘛 你沒有敲鑼打鼓嘛但事實這是一個在第一日期間這五十年來很重要的一個突破"},{"start":12152.408,"end":12168.033,"text":"你說他們都會聽到 我在內行 我幫你問這個就是這樣嘛不過辛苦 全辛苦啦可以再度突破嗎你有要再度去突破跟日本的往來 再度去日本訪問一遍嗎謝謝委員的提醒 跟期許你不敢把台灣人當他們 不然我們這麼天理"},{"start":12179.821,"end":12186.686,"text":"你如果要安排再去一遍 你就不敢這樣你是要做一個外交的戰術"},{"start":12189.536,"end":12212.942,"text":"外敲要有勇氣也要有智慧啊所以這個是非常...所以你在這裡跟我承諾就變成沒有智慧嗎沒有啦委員很有智慧 你有智慧的意見我都會放在心上我是傾聽你"},{"start":12217.645,"end":12240.557,"text":"因為那時候,你能夠緊張,沒有很扯到,這是對你對外交的恐懼,這點我是跟你很傾聽的但是對台灣一定會氣一半就對了,每每各各,是各自的很多但是又去對方給我們落魅各個,我們要吞下去,這我也沒辦法他這話我也是要吞下去啦,但是對我們很不公平啦"},{"start":12246.75,"end":12256.534,"text":"會變成一個憲政議長出門不對勁 沒尊嚴開始燒到燒花的事情不是錢的事情 也不是機票的事情對不對 轟轟轟轟出來 轟轟轟轟回來這樣我們不可以給你獎賞所以這是漏氣一機本來可以得分的 到現在沒那麼多本壘之前被刺殺了 謝謝"},{"start":12283.94,"end":12288.645,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請王洪威委員上台質詢謝謝主席 我請林部長請林部長"},{"start":12306.138,"end":12335.017,"text":"好部長我們的外交工作非常辛苦那我想請問一下在網路上有一個粉專政客爽那他有一個影片就是呢總統在接見就是美國代表團的時候因為總統在發表演說然後在那個影片裡面呢你眼睛閉起來然後有點頭請問一下那個時候你是不是非常的勞累疲累有度過嗎"},{"start":12336.278,"end":12348.691,"text":"有閉目養神嗎?謝謝委員的關心 外交的工作是跨時區很多的業務因為是同仁有提醒我 外界有在關心這個問題我是有去看了一下"},{"start":12359.688,"end":12387.904,"text":"是有閉幕啦,但很快就回神了很快回神,但是有一點,有杜姑是看起來是有啊,但是我是說打瞌睡與否是一回事,但拼外交不能打折啦我是說我是很全力所以部長也很誠實的講說那個時候確實有閉幕養神啦我們可以這樣講嗎對啦,這也是很快就回神了啦"},{"start":12389.325,"end":12413.187,"text":"因為我們質詢 因為我們還是會關心部長你的身體的狀態希望你都保持非常旺盛的精神來拚外交另外 這一次美國四位的參議員來台訪問我在這邊要特別肯定一位就是我們的現在是國防部的副部長徐思潔"},{"start":12414.728,"end":12422.193,"text":"為什麼呢 因為在參議員他在訪問的過程裡面到中科院訪問徐思簡在他們的面前特別提到就是我們已經我們已經付款但是仍然延宕還沒有交貨的這些軍購我覺得這點非常重要我們現在在審查這個有關於我們國防特別預算其實我們一直非常關心而且社會大眾最關心的這一點就是說我們預算給了"},{"start":12444.428,"end":12447.93,"text":"錢也付了但是為什麼我們採購的這個軍售遲遲沒有辦法到貨老實說過去我在看我們不管 雖然是拼外交也好你們到國外訪問也好或者美國的訪問團來台灣也好我都沒有看見我們的官員公開的來關心這個事情"},{"start":12464.6,"end":12468.042,"text":"來表達我們社會大眾關心我們已付款卻未到貨的這些軍購我覺得至少徐師姐敢講出來而不是在這些美國的訪問團裡面然後再大罵說這個藍白不是那個沒有通過預算很重要的就是我們社會大眾應該關心的事情要做反應這一點我覺得我是我這點我是肯定徐師姐的做法"},{"start":12492.054,"end":12497.133,"text":"那另外請教一下就是剛才也有委員特別講到WTO部長會議"},{"start":12499.13,"end":12527.831,"text":"部長 我們台灣雖然小 但是我們算是貿易大國我們的貿易量全球排名第15所以WTO對我們很重要很重要的是 台灣對於WTO也非常重要但是這一次呢 因為這樣的外交因素因為賀邁龍其實是非常無理 而且呢有矮化我們國格的問題使得我們第一次沒有辦法參加WTO部長"},{"start":12529.057,"end":12552.318,"text":"的會議這是非常重大的損失我們也擔心他未來不要變成一個常態所以部長你在這邊可不可以來做一個了解就說我很擔心今年我們沒有辦法參加部長級會議未來會不會有其他的會員國也如此無理所以除了對柯麥隆"},{"start":12553.419,"end":12567.635,"text":"的抗議之外 我們有沒有對WTO的秘書處做強烈的抗議你們WTO不能說你今天就尊重今天主辦國 愛怎麼搞就亂搞啊台灣是貿易大國耶 我們很重要啊"},{"start":12569.396,"end":12591.116,"text":"柯班長既然要主辦這種WTO的國際會議尤其是部長會議他就應該遵守WTO的規定他不遵守以他控制我們因為要簽證入關使我們實質上無法入境那我們現在就是說要求WTO的秘書處以及未來要稱辦的國家都必須要"},{"start":12592.148,"end":12607.539,"text":"就是先承諾不能夠有差別待遇我們要求秘書處要做這樣的一個因為申辦國現在也是有國家申辦我們也在交涉他們當然也表達他們會根據WTO的規定因為他不能這一次是一個極為極為例外他不能成為一個常態其實我老講我們是WTO的會員國我們不是觀察員"},{"start":12619.848,"end":12641.705,"text":"我們是會員國另外最後用一點時間剛剛特別提到你們在昨天對於南韓的應對方案臨時喊卡可是其實這樣的問題是越來越多我這邊也有接到民眾的投訴他在德國柏林的布蘭登機場"},{"start":12643.326,"end":12655.354,"text":"不然登保機場去這個就是它是自動的check in的時候這個系統呢出現在你的國籍的國籍欄裡面只有台灣,China然後當然韓國電子路徑卡還有前一陣子丹麥丹麥是對於我們的拘留證變成CHN所以呢"},{"start":12666.761,"end":12690.647,"text":"我們外交部也斥責也有斥責頒賣 也有跟他們抗議然後越南簽證也是如此也是China 然後瓜湖台灣所以也就是說韓國電子入境卡的事情它變成不是單一個案可能越來越多的其他的國家機場也好 拘留證也好簽證申請也好都會出現這樣子的一個把我們矮化的狀態"},{"start":12696.488,"end":12708.83,"text":"那當然我們本來是在韓國大家很生氣說我們把他改成南韓那如果我這樣子看那麼多那我們要把德國改成西德把你越南改成北越把你丹麥改成樂高王國算了"},{"start":12709.741,"end":12738.68,"text":"但是這樣子好像也不是一個正伴所以我們所以在講說我們中華民國的外交確實碰到很多的困境剛才也講的就是說除了韓國電子入境卡這次因為國人去韓國非常多所以感受很深刻可是剛才講的德國的機場越南的簽證當然可能到丹麥去去居留的人不多可是陸陸續續都碰到相關的狀態"},{"start":12739.961,"end":12758.589,"text":"所以請問一下部長有沒有一個就是未來一個怎麼樣的對應的方式我看得出來外交部不想把這個爭議直接的拉高希望給外就不要給韓國一些時間可是別說德國啦或者是丹麥這些我們要怎麼辦呢"},{"start":12759.717,"end":12777.47,"text":"各位報告 確實這個樣態也很多因為現在很多國家都在整合電子化的政府包括路徑 也許不同的政府單位也許有不同的做法現在在整合中就產生中共可以施壓的一個切入點"},{"start":12779.211,"end":12791.855,"text":"當然每個國家的情形我們都會根據那個情形來處理這個我想有關於韓方我們已經處理了丹麥我們在處理中基於外交就是對等丹麥有沒有可能有一些轉圜"},{"start":12794.216,"end":12822.126,"text":"是我想其實丹麥包括歐盟的國家包括丹麥裡面的很多政要也都認為他們在兩年多前去做這個有關於我們在他們那邊的這個所謂的居留證的登記這個國籍的部分去更改這個是他改變的現狀所以我們當然在交涉中在交涉過程我們也基於對等之原則那我們也有告訴他方案了"},{"start":12823.493,"end":12848.714,"text":"因為他要入境我們也是可以把他空白或用什麼所以我說要努力我們在台灣當然可以用大內宣方式或者用意識形態的方式比如說剛才沈博洋委員可以講一堆其實全世界沒有啦可是事實上我們國人出境或者在海外居留等等都陸續去碰到相關的問題"},{"start":12850.615,"end":12868.342,"text":"所以這已經不是單一事件這並不是我們自己在這邊覺得說這個就是全世界沒有這樣的做法可是事實上就碰到這些像這個到德國去check in的時候那他們也是來跟我們反映啊所以很生氣很生氣可是問題他要登機啊他還是要去登機對不對所以我覺得在這個部分我還是希望建議外交部能夠很務實的去看待這個問題"},{"start":12879.146,"end":12885.712,"text":"我們可以去抗議的 像我剛剛講WGO一定要嚴重的抗議因為我是會員國啊 會員國不能參加部長級會議 開玩笑了但是有一些他跟我們沒有邦交的跟我們沒有邦交 或者有一些他跟我們有一定的經貿往來或者是韓國是因為我們的旅客的人數佔他們非常大的一個比例我們有更好的更多的一個就是談判的條件"},{"start":12905.109,"end":12920.039,"text":"所以我們要很務實的去因應這些越來越多的像這樣的一個入境爭議 好不好好 我覺得委員的分析跟因個每個情形我們都要做妥當的應處對 好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請劉許廷委員上台質詢"},{"start":12935.638,"end":12937.799,"text":"謝謝主席 林部長要請請林部長部長晚安 辛苦了晚安好今天聊相關一些經貿合作協定的一些經濟效益但我想大部分社會大眾比較關心的最近新聞上的熱頭其實是一樣跟經貿談判相關的當然就是我們的副總談判代表的一些風波"},{"start":12962.612,"end":12990.759,"text":"那我們當然對於國家痛勢經貿談判好人才表達非常深切的遺憾但是他的這個辭呈裡面其實也提出了非常多的一些值得大家來做政策討論的一個方向所以我們先花點時間討論這個事情齁請問部長這個我們的嚴副總談代表的辭呈的內容啊你有事前有掌握嗎你可不可以簡單的敘述一下重點大概有哪些我知道他有递辭呈你知道他有递辭呈什麼時候知道的"},{"start":12991.758,"end":13011.192,"text":"嗯 就是就是舊歷年過後第一時間你就掌握了全部的內容嗎已經有隔幾天了隔了幾天但是你就有看到全部的內容你是事前掌握還是事後再補救啊都比較後面的時候我有得知就是因為他的家屬希望這個辭職能夠盡速生效"},{"start":13015.915,"end":13038.653,"text":"因為他的身份有雙重的因為他還有我們這個所謂台美會的對嘛 他是以台美會的這個身份來加入OTM經貿談判辦公室嘛所以這個我想有幾個問題要就教一下這個部長 不過那辭呈的內容你事前不見得第一時間能掌握這本身倒是可以理解但事後這個東西變成新聞話題了他自然內容重點你可以簡單報告一下吧"},{"start":13039.517,"end":13064.47,"text":"他的執政裡面提了哪些重點我想他有提到我們談判的機制人才還有涉及到就是跟CPTPP這個談判的怎麼去推動沒錯一個叫做CPTPP的政策執行狀況一個叫做談判人才培養的一個制度還有第三個是內部溝通的失靈大概就是這三件事情分別要跟部長做一下探討這個我想喔"},{"start":13065.715,"end":13088.968,"text":"我們就從CPTPP開始談因為今天主題還是經貿談判協議嘛對不對這個嚴富代表的辭呈明確的指出這個我們國家領導人層級啊這個對內的強力宣示啊甚至要求部分的政策開放都是基於說要加速CPTPP申請入會的一個程序但是這個辭呈裡面講實際的執行程式恐怕不是這樣卻充滿了消極敷衍的態度這個落差很大"},{"start":13089.728,"end":13108.838,"text":"那我也聽了部長前一段時間的回應也好答詢也好也有講到你說每一個國家的立場現在都有掌握對不對因為12個會員國奧克蘭三原則要全部有共識決對不對全部國家立場您都有掌握嗎我們都有持續掌握中而且去交涉有掌握有交涉那可不可以告訴大家誰贊成誰反對呢現在"},{"start":13110.589,"end":13126.177,"text":"因為我們都要面對到可能中共的因素那有一些我就不好代為說明因為講的時候中共可能會針對某一個對象有一些施壓那多少國家支持多少國家反對基本上沒有國家反對台灣因為"},{"start":13127.498,"end":13134.283,"text":"大家要瞭解台灣是符合所有自由貿易的條件我們這幾年有很大的進展因為台美簽了21世紀貿易倡議我們又跟包括英國加拿大很多都簽了一些像ETP部長你先回答問題因為奧克蘭三原則高標準能力跟意願我相信我們台灣也有做到"},{"start":13149.153,"end":13173.809,"text":"遵循貿易規範 我覺得我們表現應該是不錯唯一的障礙 其實剛剛很多人也質詢嘛 其實就是共識覺嘛那你剛剛講通過國家都沒有反對 那共識覺這怎麼會是問題呢好 那我跟委員簡單說明齁就是反對要找理由 你要說明 你不能說我們要申請 我們要去說服每個國家 可是有些國家有政治的顧慮或怕中國經濟協邦 我跟你講 他有政治的顧慮或其他壓迫也都是反對的 我跟委員講 我這邊很重要 客觀的障礙嘛"},{"start":13174.349,"end":13193.566,"text":"也就是說所謂共識決是你反對要有理由能夠說服別人不是說我不贊成所以現在您的意思是講說沒有辦法達成共識決是因為有部分的會員國反對但是都不講理由事實上這些他並沒有公開反對也沒有公開反對對對對但是他就是沒有辦法給你12個"},{"start":13196.689,"end":13211.305,"text":"會員都正式的表態另外有一個我們在突破的就是所謂因為他要成立工作小組所以現在有一個方式在加拿大當主席國的時候他已經允許你所謂的pre-consultation"},{"start":13211.866,"end":13237.022,"text":"你在成立工作小組之前的雙邊的諮商是可以進行的所以我們跟某些國家有展開雙邊諮商我現在問的是數量比如12個這個會員國裡面對不對因為要全部共識或者大家至少要開綠燈我們才能順利的通過那12個國家裡面有多少國家也開綠燈我不講個別吧我現在有公開講的包括像日本、英國都是有公開講台灣的進入是支持的我們要突破障礙突破障礙裡面還有幾個國家反對"},{"start":13238.988,"end":13258.727,"text":"不管他有沒有講正當的理由目前是真的沒有國家敢公開反對因為台灣的符合自由貿易的程度是比現在這12個國家高很多現在成立工作小組的有一些自由貿易程度還差我們很多也意思說大家都談得很愉快所以這變成政治去介入到所謂共識決我今天沒有在跟你討論這個政治我們要讓他凸顯出來就是說你反對要說理由"},{"start":13261.169,"end":13282.604,"text":"是啊 因為說理由他就說不出理由說不出理由就等於贊成因此這樣子我們12票我就要問你幾個國家幾個國家現在沒贊成但說不出理由的幾個國家贊成說不出理由反對還說不出理由就沒有辦法開綠燈嗎就沒有國家真的反對啊沒有國家真的反對但是共識覺得過不了這不是很矛盾嗎就是有政治利益介入啊"},{"start":13284.54,"end":13313.369,"text":"好啦 部長也算是能言善道啦我講的是報理啦大家都很努力啦 是不是啊輪值的從加拿大到澳洲馬上要到越南 對不對因為大家要知道的是這包含不管是這個嚴副總談判代表最後的這個辭職信裡面所談他都關切的內容我們就總要具體的關心具體的推進 對吧對啊 所以我們就要面對問題但今天你又講說有些國家這個反對但講不出理由那應該就是贊成但是好像因為又有壓力所以突破不了共識決 好吧你有一套說法"},{"start":13313.689,"end":13324.488,"text":"那到底我們做不做得到 有沒有明確的時間表呢我們現在行政院有說要整個就來推動嘛我們叫外交部是其中扮演一個角色"},{"start":13326.687,"end":13354.167,"text":"所以有沒有辦法有具體的時間表 或者是安排因為有各種談判 時間表跟具體方式都沒有要正確的認識奧克蘭三原則不要被扭曲 變成政治力介入 這第一點第二點 我們要成立工作小組啊 必須主席國家比如今年是越南他如果是正面的態度 那站他在主持這個會議的時候 空間表 對對對 會議的時候他現在是不是正面態度我們都主持會有說 沒有反對喔 我們就率成"},{"start":13354.967,"end":13374.701,"text":"啊你又說一一投票 你們是不是贊成 那很多人就說我們沒意見我們就眼下看眼前嘛 那越南友善嗎 會不會有壓力我們應該說台越之間有很多合作的公司我們有很多合作的公司啊 台商等等 非常密切那談判就這樣子嘛 除了我們參加這個我們來說理以外你有多大把握他今年會很有善的態度 而且有軍事的突破"},{"start":13377.003,"end":13399.195,"text":"你有多大把握他今年會是友善的態度我們在裡面有機會這個要由行政院整體的來做談判策略外交部我們因為有外管我們會去執行外管也是你抓種吧對不對除以在外管方面外交部會去就是說指示他們怎麼去推動可是上位的"},{"start":13400.255,"end":13401.436,"text":"談判的目標跟策略"},{"start":13430.515,"end":13454.013,"text":"但如果 如果他是友善的 我要加碼 你也要講嘛所以我今天問你的原因是這個 多少人贊成多少人反對委員講到重點了啦 對不對重點就在這裡所以你要明確整體談判的規則 雙邊關係那我們再簡單一點好了這是give and take嘛那今年越南輪值主席 你是樂觀還是悲觀簡單一點就好因為現在我們需要行政院有一個談判的目標跟策略的指導"},{"start":13456.226,"end":13484.955,"text":"譬如說我們台商投資我們的貿易很多然後台商發展半導體的產業我們的政策工具喔我跟委員講其實在所以你個人現在位置上的專業評估你覺得是樂觀還是悲觀嘛我的角色是外交部長這個經貿談判是有一個機制就是我們的角色把它扮演好我提醒部長我們花了八分多鐘的時間去談這件事情今天這樣子的一個回答恰恰就是嚴副總談判代表擔心的事情嘛"},{"start":13485.535,"end":13511.56,"text":"好啦這一題先到這裡因為我還有別題要問啦第二個其實我更關心的其實是這個外交人才的徵補跟掌握在本席了解OTN的編制上當然談判總代表抓總兩個副總談判代表的設置原則上就本席的粗淺的認識啦一個是經濟部體系嘛因為我要了解國內的產業對吧產能夠做合理的策略安排一個當然是外交部體系要尊重外交體系的專業演副總談判代表是哪一個體系出來的"},{"start":13512.554,"end":13537.724,"text":"他算是 所以他是比較是 雖然是掛在這個台北他是經貿 不是他的背景的專業另外一個是我們的陳明祺政事啊你看補他位置的是陳明祺是不是就是外交體系出來的對好現在他的裡面過去他所揭露的一些狀況不管是對內的溝通也好或者是怎麼樣顯然他受了蠻大的一個委屈啊那我想請問他是外交部"},{"start":13538.064,"end":13552.806,"text":"在派駐等於是外交部放在經貿談判辦公室裡面代表外交部的人才不是不是不是我們外交部是城市政事啊你事前有沒有掌握他遇到他只是因為經貿談判辦公室是個任務編組那他需要有一個正譜的一個角色那是同時間"},{"start":13553.527,"end":13568.275,"text":"他以台灣美國事務委員會主委身份兼任嘛所以當然是在外交體系嘛好他在裡面遇到問題或者是遇到一些委屈的時候外交部有沒有事前的掌握他有沒有循線跟你來做反應您在這個過程中扮演了什麼角色可不可以簡單回答一下"},{"start":13569.279,"end":13594.741,"text":"因為這是有經貿台灣辦公室在主政啦那屬於台美會的部分 比如說我們有美國的貴賓來我們也會邀請這個台美會的這個主席來參與這是屬於台美會的事務所以你跟他們只聊台美會的事不聊OTN的事嗎 經貿台灣辦公室他們在主政完蛋了 你這樣回答我就幫他捏把冷汗難怪他會孤軍奮戰嘛"},{"start":13596.667,"end":13619.808,"text":"他當然期待外交部也在裡面協助一下因為從他個人的身份他也不能跟他的黨官作對比如說我們外交部我們當然也會請中經院進行對於加入CPTPP對各國經貿包括對於GDP的影響我們這個就是屬於我們透過我們外交部的機制在做可是談判策略是行政院經貿辦公室整體"},{"start":13621.229,"end":13646.286,"text":"他是跨部會的 包括經濟部 農業部等等我真是捏了一把冷汗他裡面點出來的問題其實就是理論上來講這東西要兼顧產業的專業也要兼顧外交的專業兩邊要一起提供人才共同討論 形成理性決策這才是OTA應該扮演的角色但顯然在裡面他所呈現出來的不管是他的控訴也好 或怎麼樣也好顯現出來是不對稱的 也就是"},{"start":13646.866,"end":13663.484,"text":"也就是出現我都不談什麼是不是符合霸凌等等的細節這不是我今天要爭論的重點但在裡面顯然受了委屈而且孤軍奮戰外交部應該要提供適時的協助跟支援啊所以這就是我為什麼問你在這個過程中有沒有尋求外交部的協助或者是相反團隊的支持呢"},{"start":13664.665,"end":13691.931,"text":"我們在外交部做 我剛剛有報告我們派了三個次長到三個國家派了次長去遊說然後我們也做了調查報告然後我們也發動外管所以屬於外交部的這個部分我相信委員也質詢過很多我們對情資的掌握包括我剛剛講的那些所謂三原則的解釋然後所謂pre consultation在成立工作小組之間的雙邊智商也可以展開這個就是屬於"},{"start":13692.611,"end":13702.73,"text":"我現在就單純問你我們外交部一定有很多人也參與經貿談判嘛他們有沒有跟嚴副總代表有保持密切的溝通給予事實的支持然後你有沒有掌握他受到委屈的狀況有或沒有嘛"},{"start":13704.509,"end":13733.264,"text":"如果沒有的話他就是個問題需要檢討改進我想他提的現象是存在的對不對就是他提到的問題的現象是存在的我們當然要整個行政院我們整個經貿談判的策略我們的團隊我們的分工我們的策略都需要這個應該要徹底的檢討我希望部長您代表的是外交部全部你是外交部的龍頭啊外交部的體系在經貿談判裡面是很重要的"},{"start":13733.684,"end":13759.535,"text":"對我剛剛你剛剛講現在顯然有點缺乏資源的狀況我要再追著問因為他體現另外一個問題叫經貿談判人才的缺乏我們現在部裡面接下來還有多少的經貿談判的人才儲備委員我可以跟你講一個現象嗎比如說經貿談判公司他是戒掉我們外交部的同仁是啊就是外交專業對我們外交同仁他的一個升遷可能就會有影響不利的影響對不對"},{"start":13760.955,"end":13776.12,"text":"當然就是我們還是很支持啊可是這個也要找到適合的人所以外交部第一個在體制上制度上的修正第一要具體立章所以經貿談判的人才確實是一個要有一個國家的談判人才要有專門的儲備機制嘛你是要考量到他就是人才的整個這個制度嘛"},{"start":13778.961,"end":13799.14,"text":"這個委員講得是非常非常關鍵的我今天沒有要為難你的意思但是我今天一定要借這場質詢把話點出來要不然真的延復總談判代表的委屈就白受了嘛就一定是制度要完整你剛剛講到 部長你剛剛回答得來 至少我們今天還有點建設性也就是說 哎呀如果借調到OTM體系等等因為人家是經濟部主導 這已經是歷年來的習慣"},{"start":13800.842,"end":13819.159,"text":"那反而對我們外交人員的升遷跟發展可能會遭受影響所以可能普遍會出現相對困難跟意願低落的狀況這就是行政體系要檢討的東西嘛要不然現在這次調查完又穿過水無痕所有事情保持一致外交談判 經貿談判人才持續稀缺那所有事情原地踏步就完蛋了"},{"start":13819.724,"end":13841.016,"text":"不然我今天話有一點激動 你就不要說話啦我是很希望我們的人才是平衡的尤其因為中華民國的外交常常受到打壓所以經貿是我們的命脈所以我希望外交部花更多的精力跟資源培養經貿談判的人才特別是在借調到跨部合作的時候拜託外交部要當他們的後盾啦"},{"start":13841.936,"end":13854.969,"text":"讓他們可以好好的發揮 這樣整個團隊戰力才會強好啦 我的提醒就到這邊希望我們外交部不管是針對國際經貿談判的一些明確的進度或者是人才的增補培養 更重要的是人才的支持請扮演積極角色 謝謝"},{"start":13859.945,"end":13867.051,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請鄭振淺 鄭振淺委員不在請林倩琦 林倩琦委員不在請陳永康 陳永康委員不在請蘇清泉 蘇清泉委員不在請葉元芝 葉元芝委員不在請鐘家斌 鐘家斌委員不在"},{"start":13881.943,"end":13909.92,"text":"今天已登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有陳永康委員、鍾嘉斌委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報委員書面及口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者請外交部及相關機關兩週內以書面答覆委員有約定期限者從期鎖定那針對今天也有很多委員大家有提到"},{"start":13910.3,"end":13913.503,"text":"其實外交人員真的在國內是一個很重要然後可是我們看到公務人員之前有一個數據外交人員是公務人員體系裡面缺最多的甚至高達40幾%我不曉得它是不是是正確的可是如果有這樣的問題顯然我們的外交體系"},{"start":13932.016,"end":13939.619,"text":"是有很大的危機那這個部分我們也請部長還有我們相關的同仁尤其在上位者應該要珍惜我們所有的人才那外交人員都已經這麼難那要在外交體系裡面找到可以談判的這樣的人才就更困難所以我們應該要從這個制度面上也請部長去考量這個部分怎麼樣讓我們的人才可以好好的留住而且要怎麼樣去珍惜他們"},{"start":13961.149,"end":13967.485,"text":"這個也是我們今天希望提出來請外交部特別重視的部分那本次會議到此結束 散會 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"17316","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17316","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77dbbbd6dedb4516fb0fd6a76734f73991827a9d5466ed3f8140e72d70d9d19959675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「能源轉型政策下我國產業發展布局，及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就「AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及扶助政策規劃與執行情形」進行報告，並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-04-01","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-04-01T08:31:03+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:22:00+08:00","duration":10257,"影片長度":"02:50:57","委員發言時間":"08:31:03 - 11:22:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":1741.6659687500003,"end":1741.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1741.68284375,"end":1741.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1744.0453437500003,"end":1746.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1747.6565937500002,"end":1748.2809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1748.6353437500002,"end":1749.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1751.3015937500002,"end":1753.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1753.9678437500002,"end":1754.0353437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1754.4572187500003,"end":1755.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1755.9253437500001,"end":1758.6759687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1759.5197187500003,"end":1771.2984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1771.9903437500002,"end":1780.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1781.1872187500003,"end":1803.6478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1803.9684687500003,"end":1811.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1813.7222187500001,"end":1814.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1816.3378437500003,"end":1819.1390937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1819.2403437500002,"end":1821.2653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1821.2653437500003,"end":1821.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1823.25659375,"end":1846.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1846.59471875,"end":1846.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1846.88159375,"end":1847.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1848.1134687500003,"end":1859.8584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1860.3984687500001,"end":1867.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1867.68846875,"end":1870.4390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1871.1478437500002,"end":1873.5609687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1873.5778437500003,"end":1873.9828437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1874.5565937500003,"end":1879.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1879.5853437500002,"end":1880.9522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1889.3222187500003,"end":1895.0428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1895.2284687500003,"end":1895.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1896.2915937500002,"end":1898.2828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1898.5359687500002,"end":1899.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1899.8184687500002,"end":1904.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1904.8472187500001,"end":1906.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1907.47971875,"end":1910.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1910.7703437500002,"end":1912.8797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1913.26784375,"end":1915.8497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1916.3053437500002,"end":1917.3009687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1917.5372187500002,"end":1919.9334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1920.2540937500003,"end":1921.6378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1921.97534375,"end":1922.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1922.68409375,"end":1923.7640937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1924.4559687500002,"end":1926.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1926.9872187500002,"end":1931.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1932.23534375,"end":1933.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1933.7034687500002,"end":1937.6859687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1937.9897187500003,"end":1939.8965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1939.9303437500002,"end":1942.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1942.6640937500001,"end":1945.2797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1945.4315937500003,"end":1946.5453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1946.73096875,"end":1947.6084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1947.8278437500003,"end":1948.4690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1948.6040937500002,"end":1950.4940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1950.81471875,"end":1956.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1957.0415937500002,"end":1960.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1960.8553437500002,"end":1964.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1965.0403437500001,"end":1967.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1967.6390937500003,"end":1971.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1971.6384687500001,"end":1974.7772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1975.0303437500002,"end":1979.5359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1980.1603437500003,"end":1981.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1981.9659687500002,"end":1983.7715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1983.99096875,"end":1988.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1988.4628437500003,"end":1990.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1990.4203437500003,"end":1992.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1992.69846875,"end":1993.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1994.2847187500001,"end":1997.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1998.1490937500002,"end":2000.3934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2000.7647187500002,"end":2003.0765937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2003.1778437500002,"end":2006.1140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2006.3672187500001,"end":2008.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2009.1009687500002,"end":2013.7922187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2014.09596875,"end":2019.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2019.3609687500002,"end":2022.2128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2022.66846875,"end":2023.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2023.9678437500002,"end":2024.3897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2025.0140937500003,"end":2025.7228437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2026.04346875,"end":2027.8490937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2028.1697187500001,"end":2029.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2029.9415937500003,"end":2031.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2031.37596875,"end":2034.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2034.5822187500003,"end":2038.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2038.12596875,"end":2039.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2040.1340937500001,"end":2042.7328437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2042.8509687500002,"end":2046.6140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2047.4409687500001,"end":2048.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2049.17909375,"end":2053.7184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2053.95471875,"end":2054.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2055.2372187500005,"end":2057.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2058.10596875,"end":2064.0459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2064.5184687500005,"end":2068.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2068.83846875,"end":2070.2559687499997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2070.57659375,"end":2083.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2083.70534375,"end":2084.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2084.7684687500005,"end":2086.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2086.86096875,"end":2088.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2089.25721875,"end":2091.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2091.92346875,"end":2094.2859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2094.50534375,"end":2096.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2096.2265937500006,"end":2098.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2099.33159375,"end":2100.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2100.83346875,"end":2104.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2104.4278437500006,"end":2105.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2105.76096875,"end":2109.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2109.9459687500002,"end":2110.4522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2110.63784375,"end":2114.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2114.87346875,"end":2115.2109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2115.36284375,"end":2116.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2116.6453437500004,"end":2117.9109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2117.9615937500002,"end":2120.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2121.03284375,"end":2126.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2127.05721875,"end":2129.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2130.3309687500005,"end":2133.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2134.11096875,"end":2135.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2135.42721875,"end":2137.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2137.8572187500004,"end":2138.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2138.9540937500005,"end":2140.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2140.9959687500004,"end":2141.4684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2141.75534375,"end":2143.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2143.56096875,"end":2144.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2145.0459687500006,"end":2147.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2147.7965937500003,"end":2148.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2148.5222187500003,"end":2151.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2151.6609687500004,"end":2152.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2153.31471875,"end":2155.5759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2155.79534375,"end":2159.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2159.2547187500004,"end":2162.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2163.1865937500006,"end":2165.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2166.08909375,"end":2170.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2170.4597187500003,"end":2173.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2173.4128437500003,"end":2175.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2175.69096875,"end":2177.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2177.29409375,"end":2180.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2180.56784375,"end":2183.0147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2183.40284375,"end":2186.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2187.01409375,"end":2189.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2189.29221875,"end":2190.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2190.3047187500006,"end":2193.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2193.74721875,"end":2194.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2196.29534375,"end":2197.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2197.49346875,"end":2198.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2199.24846875,"end":2200.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2201.0203437500004,"end":2201.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2201.61096875,"end":2202.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2202.5390937500006,"end":2205.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2205.34034375,"end":2205.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2206.2684687500005,"end":2208.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2208.27659375,"end":2210.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2211.36471875,"end":2218.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2218.7390937500004,"end":2223.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2224.1559687500003,"end":2228.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2228.5603437500004,"end":2231.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2231.31096875,"end":2235.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2236.23846875,"end":2237.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2237.9597187500003,"end":2238.3984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2238.73596875,"end":2241.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2241.9422187500004,"end":2245.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2246.2115937500002,"end":2251.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2251.5272187500004,"end":2257.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2257.8047187500006,"end":2266.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2266.20846875,"end":2268.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2268.80721875,"end":2270.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2270.84909375,"end":2271.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2272.23284375,"end":2276.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2276.6034687500005,"end":2298.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2298.37221875,"end":2300.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2301.1228437500004,"end":2301.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2302.18596875,"end":2304.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2304.4472187500005,"end":2312.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2313.08721875,"end":2323.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2323.70159375,"end":2325.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2325.57471875,"end":2341.3190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2341.79159375,"end":2344.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2344.49159375,"end":2346.3984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2346.41534375,"end":2346.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2347.1240937500006,"end":2362.5984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2362.81784375,"end":2363.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2363.5097187500005,"end":2364.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2365.11284375,"end":2370.0065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2370.1922187500004,"end":2374.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2374.8328437500004,"end":2376.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2376.5203437500004,"end":2376.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2377.39784375,"end":2378.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2379.2878437500003,"end":2380.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2380.90784375,"end":2383.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2383.54034375,"end":2385.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2385.3797187500004,"end":2387.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2387.8603437500005,"end":2389.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2389.3115937500006,"end":2391.1172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2391.7078437500004,"end":2392.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2392.77096875,"end":2395.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2395.6903437500005,"end":2404.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2405.2753437500005,"end":2406.7097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2406.9122187500006,"end":2410.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2410.5065937500003,"end":2411.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2412.1434687500005,"end":2423.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2423.7028437500003,"end":2425.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2425.54221875,"end":2426.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2427.12846875,"end":2430.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2430.5878437500005,"end":2432.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2432.95034375,"end":2435.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2436.1903437500005,"end":2438.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2438.19846875,"end":2441.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2442.23159375,"end":2445.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2445.43784375,"end":2447.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2447.90159375,"end":2449.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2449.35284375,"end":2452.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2452.4578437500004,"end":2454.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2454.2128437500005,"end":2456.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2456.3222187500005,"end":2459.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2459.6803437500002,"end":2461.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2461.94159375,"end":2464.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2464.59096875,"end":2466.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2466.78471875,"end":2467.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2468.10096875,"end":2468.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2468.70846875,"end":2471.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2471.8809687500006,"end":2473.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2473.6697187500004,"end":2475.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2475.81284375,"end":2476.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2476.5722187500005,"end":2477.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2477.92221875,"end":2478.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2479.1540937500004,"end":2480.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2481.11159375,"end":2483.6934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2483.8622187500005,"end":2484.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2485.1278437500005,"end":2486.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2486.71409375,"end":2489.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2489.36346875,"end":2489.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2490.0722187500005,"end":2502.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2502.76221875,"end":2507.1159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2507.38596875,"end":2509.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2510.05221875,"end":2512.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2512.4315937500005,"end":2516.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2516.36346875,"end":2518.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2518.2197187500005,"end":2519.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2519.8903437500003,"end":2521.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2525.4928437500002,"end":2526.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2527.11284375,"end":2527.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2527.9228437500005,"end":2531.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2532.0065937500003,"end":2532.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2532.05721875,"end":2535.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2535.65159375,"end":2536.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2537.52471875,"end":2538.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2538.9422187500004,"end":2542.7897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2547.46409375,"end":2550.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2551.07534375,"end":2562.5672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2563.1240937500006,"end":2648.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2648.24159375,"end":2676.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2677.6378437500007,"end":2693.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2693.50034375,"end":2694.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2694.36096875,"end":2696.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2697.4490937500004,"end":2709.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2710.3584687500006,"end":2728.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2731.3340937500006,"end":2733.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2733.5615937500006,"end":2734.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2734.6922187500004,"end":2735.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2736.0253437500005,"end":2737.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2739.07971875,"end":2739.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2744.56409375,"end":2745.9140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2746.8590937500003,"end":2748.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2749.62659375,"end":2750.7403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2751.5672187500004,"end":2756.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2757.0515937500004,"end":2757.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2758.51971875,"end":2760.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2761.05096875,"end":2761.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2762.50221875,"end":2763.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2764.86471875,"end":2766.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2780.00159375,"end":2780.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2781.2165937500004,"end":2782.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2782.63409375,"end":2784.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2784.3722187500007,"end":2787.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2804.47034375,"end":2813.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2807.82846875,"end":2807.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2807.84534375,"end":2808.3347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2808.3347187500003,"end":2808.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2816.1815937500005,"end":2816.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2817.64971875,"end":2819.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2819.8603437500005,"end":2827.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2827.2684687500005,"end":2833.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2834.77784375,"end":2843.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2837.35971875,"end":2839.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2840.75159375,"end":2840.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2840.7684687500005,"end":2841.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2843.99159375,"end":2844.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2845.51034375,"end":2850.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2850.31971875,"end":2852.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2852.91846875,"end":2854.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2854.1503437500005,"end":2857.5759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2858.0147187500006,"end":2859.6347187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2860.1747187500005,"end":2861.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2861.76096875,"end":2868.5447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2868.76409375,"end":2869.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2869.91159375,"end":2870.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2870.94096875,"end":2872.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2873.03346875,"end":2873.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2873.05034375,"end":2873.3878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2873.3878437500007,"end":2877.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2877.8934687500005,"end":2878.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2878.65284375,"end":2887.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2884.66034375,"end":2885.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2885.33534375,"end":2885.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2886.2128437500005,"end":2886.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2886.76971875,"end":2886.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2887.37721875,"end":2898.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2899.02096875,"end":2903.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2903.7459687500004,"end":2903.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2904.08346875,"end":2904.1003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2904.37034375,"end":2905.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2906.0240937500002,"end":2906.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2907.03659375,"end":2907.7284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2909.68596875,"end":2910.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2911.06971875,"end":2911.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2911.1034687500005,"end":2911.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2912.03159375,"end":2912.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2912.3690937500005,"end":2913.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2914.56284375,"end":2926.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2925.71721875,"end":2926.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2926.8309687500005,"end":2926.8815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2926.8815937500003,"end":2926.9490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2927.2528437500005,"end":2930.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2929.93596875,"end":2930.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2930.42534375,"end":2936.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2930.4590937500006,"end":2930.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2937.6815937500005,"end":2937.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2938.2890937500006,"end":2942.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2942.28846875,"end":2952.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2953.1053437500004,"end":2962.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2963.12909375,"end":2966.6053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2966.87534375,"end":2967.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2968.32659375,"end":2968.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2969.05221875,"end":2969.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2969.9803437500004,"end":2970.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2972.1065937500007,"end":2972.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2973.1697187500004,"end":2975.5997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2976.0553437500002,"end":2976.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2977.9453437500006,"end":2981.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2982.0459687500006,"end":2997.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2998.1953437500006,"end":2998.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2999.54534375,"end":3000.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3000.55784375,"end":3001.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3002.2790937500004,"end":3005.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3005.6034687500005,"end":3007.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3007.7128437500005,"end":3009.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3009.90659375,"end":3012.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3013.21409375,"end":3015.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3015.44159375,"end":3017.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3018.17534375,"end":3019.0528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3019.3903437500003,"end":3020.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3020.94284375,"end":3021.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3022.2253437500003,"end":3024.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3024.9422187500004,"end":3029.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3029.5153437500003,"end":3030.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3031.01721875,"end":3032.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3034.0547187500006,"end":3035.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3036.2147187500004,"end":3037.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3038.47596875,"end":3045.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3045.2597187500005,"end":3048.6178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3048.9890937500004,"end":3051.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3052.6003437500003,"end":3053.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3053.6803437500002,"end":3054.6084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3055.09784375,"end":3057.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3057.57846875,"end":3070.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3070.28534375,"end":3070.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3071.38221875,"end":3072.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3073.5253437500005,"end":3075.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3075.29721875,"end":3081.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3079.6678437500004,"end":3082.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3082.8065937500005,"end":3088.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3087.22784375,"end":3087.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3088.2234687500004,"end":3100.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3092.4422187500004,"end":3092.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3100.8122187500003,"end":3103.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3104.7947187500004,"end":3105.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3106.6003437500003,"end":3107.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3107.59596875,"end":3109.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3109.95846875,"end":3112.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3113.1815937500005,"end":3117.6534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3118.2947187500004,"end":3119.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3119.5603437500004,"end":3121.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3121.70346875,"end":3125.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3126.36096875,"end":3127.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3128.28471875,"end":3130.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3130.7822187500005,"end":3133.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3133.21221875,"end":3142.7803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3143.4215937500003,"end":3144.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3145.26096875,"end":3152.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3152.68596875,"end":3154.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3155.14971875,"end":3157.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3157.9003437500005,"end":3160.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3160.6678437500004,"end":3163.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3164.2790937500004,"end":3166.3378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3166.5909687500007,"end":3167.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3168.10971875,"end":3168.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3168.76784375,"end":3169.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3169.6622187500006,"end":3171.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3171.0290937500004,"end":3172.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3173.0709687500002,"end":3185.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3177.2390937500004,"end":3178.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3179.0447187500004,"end":3179.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3180.27659375,"end":3180.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3185.6934687500006,"end":3191.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3191.8359687500006,"end":3192.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3192.52784375,"end":3196.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3197.47221875,"end":3200.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3198.0965937500005,"end":3198.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3200.2734687500006,"end":3211.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3211.8328437500004,"end":3215.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3216.01784375,"end":3218.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3219.0215937500006,"end":3222.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3222.3290937500005,"end":3224.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3225.5184687500005,"end":3226.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3227.89784375,"end":3229.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3229.63596875,"end":3230.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3230.2097187500003,"end":3230.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3230.2772187500004,"end":3231.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3231.9815937500007,"end":3234.2428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3234.3103437500004,"end":3235.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3235.96409375,"end":3236.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3236.8584687500006,"end":3236.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3237.48284375,"end":3238.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3241.02659375,"end":3242.7647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3255.0497187500005,"end":3258.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3259.18409375,"end":3259.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3259.2009687500004,"end":3259.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3259.23471875,"end":3261.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3259.2853437500007,"end":3260.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3266.1365937500004,"end":3266.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3266.6090937500003,"end":3272.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3273.8484687500004,"end":3277.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3277.6959687500002,"end":3280.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3281.1384687500004,"end":3284.8340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3285.57659375,"end":3297.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3298.5028437500005,"end":3303.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3303.7003437500007,"end":3306.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3307.15971875,"end":3309.2859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3309.69096875,"end":3312.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3312.20534375,"end":3314.1290937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3315.0909687500007,"end":3319.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3319.9678437500006,"end":3322.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3323.3428437500006,"end":3325.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3325.1990937500004,"end":3326.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3327.7303437500004,"end":3329.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3329.28284375,"end":3336.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3336.8428437500006,"end":3340.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3340.36971875,"end":3341.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3342.3272187500006,"end":3344.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3344.8584687500006,"end":3347.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3347.4909687500003,"end":3349.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3350.0222187500003,"end":3353.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3353.98784375,"end":3356.1815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3356.5865937500002,"end":3358.8984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3359.05034375,"end":3360.4678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3360.8053437500002,"end":3363.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3364.0284687500007,"end":3366.7284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3366.93096875,"end":3367.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3367.65659375,"end":3371.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3372.1622187500006,"end":3373.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3373.44471875,"end":3375.4190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3375.55409375,"end":3377.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3377.4103437500007,"end":3379.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3380.3972187500003,"end":3385.5440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3384.04221875,"end":3393.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3391.5684687500006,"end":3392.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3392.42909375,"end":3392.4459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3392.4459687500002,"end":3392.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3393.76221875,"end":3396.8165937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3397.3397187500004,"end":3398.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3398.6222187500007,"end":3400.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3400.07346875,"end":3401.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3401.0859687500006,"end":3401.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3401.1534687500007,"end":3410.7722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3411.90284375,"end":3416.6447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3417.08346875,"end":3418.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3419.0915937500004,"end":3423.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3419.9522187500006,"end":3425.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3425.7234687500004,"end":3430.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3431.30909375,"end":3432.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3433.04721875,"end":3448.9940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3450.15846875,"end":3453.3478437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3453.9890937500004,"end":3457.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3457.7353437500005,"end":3464.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3464.82284375,"end":3470.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3470.2059687500005,"end":3475.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3475.3865937500004,"end":3477.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3477.46221875,"end":3479.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3479.5547187500006,"end":3480.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3480.83721875,"end":3482.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3482.5078437500006,"end":3484.0772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3484.2628437500007,"end":3486.1190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3486.22034375,"end":3487.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3487.30034375,"end":3488.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3488.73471875,"end":3490.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3490.6415937500005,"end":3493.0040937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3493.2403437500006,"end":3501.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3500.7159687500007,"end":3501.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3501.57659375,"end":3501.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3501.9647187500004,"end":3502.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3502.79159375,"end":3502.8590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3503.0615937500006,"end":3504.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3503.9728437500007,"end":3511.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3511.02659375,"end":3512.5284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3512.5284687500007,"end":3512.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3513.2878437500003,"end":3515.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3515.7684687500005,"end":3517.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3517.67534375,"end":3519.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3519.3797187500004,"end":3526.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3524.12159375,"end":3533.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3532.0359687500004,"end":3532.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3533.03159375,"end":3540.6084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3534.06096875,"end":3534.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3536.3222187500005,"end":3541.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3541.3678437500002,"end":3544.5234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3542.0934687500003,"end":3544.5740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3544.5740937500004,"end":3549.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3545.7722187500003,"end":3546.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3548.57346875,"end":3554.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3554.37846875,"end":3568.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3561.17909375,"end":3563.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3564.7228437500007,"end":3566.1065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3567.0515937500004,"end":3570.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3568.65471875,"end":3573.1603437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3571.4728437500007,"end":3575.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3575.6240937500006,"end":3583.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3583.8759687500005,"end":3587.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3587.8415937500004,"end":3592.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3592.53284375,"end":3595.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3595.72221875,"end":3600.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3600.88596875,"end":3602.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3603.50159375,"end":3603.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3604.9528437500003,"end":3606.2859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3606.7078437500004,"end":3608.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3608.54721875,"end":3609.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3610.60596875,"end":3610.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3610.9772187500002,"end":3611.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3611.7028437500003,"end":3614.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3615.06096875,"end":3617.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3617.7440937500005,"end":3622.6378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3623.3465937500005,"end":3627.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3627.78471875,"end":3632.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3634.23096875,"end":3636.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3637.5722187500005,"end":3650.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3651.4434687500006,"end":3652.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3652.5909687500007,"end":3656.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3657.0965937500005,"end":3658.6153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3658.6153437500006,"end":3658.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3658.93596875,"end":3662.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3662.66534375,"end":3667.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3662.91846875,"end":3663.7790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3666.83346875,"end":3677.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3667.62659375,"end":3667.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3671.0184687500005,"end":3671.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3672.06471875,"end":3673.5665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3677.12721875,"end":3687.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3687.6403437500003,"end":3693.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3692.07846875,"end":3692.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3693.9684687500003,"end":3709.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3696.3309687500005,"end":3696.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3701.19096875,"end":3701.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3701.3259687500004,"end":3701.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3701.3428437500006,"end":3701.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3706.42221875,"end":3706.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3706.5065937500003,"end":3706.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3709.6453437500004,"end":3709.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3709.67909375,"end":3709.7634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3709.7634687500004,"end":3709.8815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3710.1347187500005,"end":3710.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3711.2822187500005,"end":3712.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3715.3828437500006,"end":3717.4922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3725.3222187500005,"end":3726.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3726.80721875,"end":3729.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3729.32159375,"end":3730.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3736.5947187500005,"end":3738.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3739.04159375,"end":3742.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3742.9059687500003,"end":3744.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3744.93096875,"end":3748.1203437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3748.5422187500008,"end":3752.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3753.0478437500005,"end":3755.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3755.61284375,"end":3757.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3758.54909375,"end":3769.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3769.8047187500006,"end":3774.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3775.30596875,"end":3777.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3778.2253437500003,"end":3786.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3786.69659375,"end":3787.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3788.45159375,"end":3789.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3789.95346875,"end":3796.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3796.34909375,"end":3802.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3802.6940937500003,"end":3811.4015937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3811.70534375,"end":3815.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3815.02971875,"end":3825.7790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3826.35284375,"end":3826.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3827.31471875,"end":3831.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3831.66846875,"end":3838.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3838.5028437500005,"end":3848.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3848.61096875,"end":3863.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3863.1572187500005,"end":3863.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3863.4609687500006,"end":3869.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3869.38409375,"end":3870.3797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3870.59909375,"end":3880.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3881.14596875,"end":3891.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3892.65471875,"end":3899.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3899.64096875,"end":3901.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3902.00346875,"end":3904.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3905.24346875,"end":3907.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3907.72409375,"end":3910.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3907.9265937500004,"end":3908.2303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3910.25534375,"end":3911.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3911.9597187500003,"end":3914.9972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3915.25034375,"end":3917.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3918.2372187500005,"end":3922.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3922.5909687500007,"end":3922.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3922.86096875,"end":3922.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3922.91159375,"end":3924.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3924.4640937500008,"end":3925.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3926.9784687500005,"end":3927.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3928.2947187500004,"end":3938.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3938.40284375,"end":3941.0353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3941.2547187500004,"end":3952.3584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3952.9659687500007,"end":3958.2140937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3958.5684687500006,"end":3959.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3958.7372187500005,"end":3960.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3960.34034375,"end":3971.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3971.1403437500003,"end":3971.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3971.2922187500008,"end":3972.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3972.03471875,"end":3972.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3972.50721875,"end":3972.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3972.5240937500002,"end":3981.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3978.5147187500006,"end":3979.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3981.7040937500005,"end":3985.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3985.2140937500008,"end":3987.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3987.40784375,"end":3992.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3990.0909687500007,"end":3990.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3992.3690937500005,"end":3992.3859687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3992.3859687500008,"end":3998.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3999.1190937500005,"end":4001.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4001.6672187500008,"end":4002.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4004.3503437500003,"end":4007.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4007.82659375,"end":4008.8728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4009.6153437500006,"end":4011.1003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4011.1678437500004,"end":4014.5428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4015.35284375,"end":4021.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4021.51221875,"end":4024.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4024.6678437500004,"end":4026.6759687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4026.7940937500007,"end":4027.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4027.9247187500005,"end":4031.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4032.5147187500006,"end":4051.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4051.4822187500004,"end":4053.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4053.03471875,"end":4053.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4054.3678437500002,"end":4054.4015937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4054.4015937500008,"end":4055.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4055.6672187500008,"end":4062.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4061.9278437500006,"end":4071.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4070.3653437500006,"end":4073.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4073.82471875,"end":4077.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4075.8834687500002,"end":4081.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4082.2115937500002,"end":4091.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4088.59034375,"end":4089.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4090.56471875,"end":4091.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4091.5772187500006,"end":4098.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4096.673468749999,"end":4097.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4098.76596875,"end":4098.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4098.782843749999,"end":4098.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4099.170968750001,"end":4099.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4099.18784375,"end":4099.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4099.204718749999,"end":4099.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4099.23846875,"end":4110.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4110.3084687499995,"end":4112.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4110.89909375,"end":4111.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4111.92846875,"end":4112.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4112.53596875,"end":4112.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4112.68784375,"end":4117.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4117.85159375,"end":4127.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4127.9090937500005,"end":4133.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4131.317843750001,"end":4131.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4132.026593750001,"end":4137.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4135.31721875,"end":4135.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4135.97534375,"end":4136.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4137.57846875,"end":4138.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4137.62909375,"end":4137.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4137.91596875,"end":4137.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4137.966593749999,"end":4138.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4138.0340937500005,"end":4138.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4138.23659375,"end":4138.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4138.37159375,"end":4138.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4138.388468749999,"end":4138.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4138.4559687500005,"end":4138.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4138.47284375,"end":4138.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4138.9959687499995,"end":4139.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4139.87346875,"end":4141.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4145.290343750001,"end":4146.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4159.85346875,"end":4162.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4163.54909375,"end":4166.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4170.231593750001,"end":4170.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4171.210343750001,"end":4171.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4172.17221875,"end":4173.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4173.640343749999,"end":4178.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4178.55096875,"end":4180.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4181.2509687500005,"end":4182.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4182.3309687500005,"end":4183.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4184.237843749999,"end":4201.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4201.264718750001,"end":4201.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4201.686593750001,"end":4209.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4209.128468749999,"end":4212.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4212.452843749999,"end":4213.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4212.67221875,"end":4213.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4213.262843750001,"end":4213.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4213.448468750001,"end":4223.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4218.52784375,"end":4218.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4222.1053437499995,"end":4254.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4255.28159375,"end":4286.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4286.97284375,"end":4332.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4337.091593749999,"end":4341.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4341.10784375,"end":4344.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4344.0947187500005,"end":4367.095343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4367.58471875,"end":4368.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4368.86721875,"end":4369.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4369.08659375,"end":4385.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4385.421593749999,"end":4386.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4385.573468750001,"end":4386.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4386.56909375,"end":4396.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4397.58846875,"end":4398.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4399.495343750001,"end":4400.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4401.8915937500005,"end":4403.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4403.849093750001,"end":4414.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4416.0497187500005,"end":4424.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4424.16659375,"end":4448.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4446.94784375,"end":4447.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4448.87159375,"end":4448.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4448.888468749999,"end":4449.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4448.905343750001,"end":4453.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4454.03534375,"end":4457.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4457.984093749999,"end":4463.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4460.903468750001,"end":4478.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4477.3397187499995,"end":4479.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4479.71909375,"end":4496.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4496.59409375,"end":4504.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4505.385968750001,"end":4510.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4511.477843750001,"end":4521.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4521.75471875,"end":4522.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4523.6278437500005,"end":4540.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4540.907843749999,"end":4556.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4555.487843749999,"end":4568.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4557.95159375,"end":4559.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4560.38159375,"end":4561.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4563.43596875,"end":4564.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4566.034718749999,"end":4566.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4567.722218749999,"end":4568.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4568.481593750001,"end":4568.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4568.717843750001,"end":4568.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4568.903468750001,"end":4568.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4569.20721875,"end":4582.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4582.8084687499995,"end":4610.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4610.567843750001,"end":4613.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4614.4490937499995,"end":4616.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4623.696593750001,"end":4626.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4626.39659375,"end":4627.206593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4629.788468750001,"end":4630.345343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4631.03721875,"end":4632.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4632.35346875,"end":4646.612843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4646.9334687499995,"end":4653.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4653.90284375,"end":4735.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4735.74659375,"end":4762.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4735.84784375,"end":4736.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4762.84784375,"end":4765.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4766.054093750001,"end":4779.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4780.583468750001,"end":4783.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4783.907843749999,"end":4806.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4806.33471875,"end":4833.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4833.8240937499995,"end":4853.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4853.669093750001,"end":4861.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4862.20784375,"end":4866.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4866.91596875,"end":4868.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4868.7215937500005,"end":4872.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4872.7040937500005,"end":4874.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4874.847218750001,"end":4877.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4877.86784375,"end":4880.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4880.483468750001,"end":4889.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4887.4697187500005,"end":4888.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4889.055968750001,"end":4904.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4889.07284375,"end":4890.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4904.935343749999,"end":4932.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4905.6103437500005,"end":4905.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4918.300343750001,"end":4921.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4922.35034375,"end":4923.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4929.606593750001,"end":4932.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4932.036593750001,"end":4932.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4932.509093750001,"end":4954.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4932.57659375,"end":4932.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4955.104718750001,"end":4979.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4979.995343750001,"end":4986.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4986.9647187499995,"end":5008.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5007.58596875,"end":5012.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5012.564093749999,"end":5019.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5020.19159375,"end":5038.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5038.9228437500005,"end":5038.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5038.93971875,"end":5038.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5038.97346875,"end":5043.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5039.17596875,"end":5040.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5044.305968750001,"end":5049.267218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5049.368468750001,"end":5075.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5052.20346875,"end":5052.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5072.993468750001,"end":5080.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5077.212218750001,"end":5078.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5078.714093750001,"end":5080.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5081.26221875,"end":5092.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5088.77159375,"end":5089.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5092.0115937499995,"end":5092.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5092.09596875,"end":5092.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5092.38284375,"end":5098.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5095.50471875,"end":5095.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5097.4959687499995,"end":5098.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5098.255343750001,"end":5098.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5098.3397187499995,"end":5100.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5100.600968750001,"end":5102.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5104.6678437499995,"end":5106.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5119.23096875,"end":5123.095343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5123.50034375,"end":5124.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5123.517218749999,"end":5124.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5125.28909375,"end":5126.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5132.376593749999,"end":5132.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5132.96721875,"end":5133.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5133.91221875,"end":5134.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5134.6884687500005,"end":5135.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5135.937218749999,"end":5141.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5142.0965937500005,"end":5144.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5144.91471875,"end":5145.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5146.12971875,"end":5147.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5147.935343749999,"end":5148.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5148.72846875,"end":5149.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5149.909718750001,"end":5159.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5160.3553437499995,"end":5163.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5164.60784375,"end":5165.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5166.2615937499995,"end":5175.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5170.66596875,"end":5171.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5171.07096875,"end":5171.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5175.47534375,"end":5180.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5180.21721875,"end":5180.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5180.26784375,"end":5182.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5180.6728437500005,"end":5181.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5182.107218749999,"end":5182.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5182.90034375,"end":5183.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5184.368468750001,"end":5212.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5213.140343749999,"end":5214.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5214.4228437500005,"end":5214.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5214.49034375,"end":5220.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5220.44721875,"end":5224.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5223.0965937500005,"end":5223.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5224.497218750001,"end":5242.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5227.28159375,"end":5227.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5236.3603437500005,"end":5236.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5236.66409375,"end":5236.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5242.38471875,"end":5244.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5243.667218750001,"end":5252.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5252.3915937500005,"end":5259.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5259.546593749999,"end":5263.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5263.41096875,"end":5263.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5264.2040937500005,"end":5264.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5265.06471875,"end":5275.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5275.999718749999,"end":5307.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5308.062218749999,"end":5313.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5313.597218750001,"end":5325.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5319.604718750001,"end":5319.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5319.62159375,"end":5320.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5320.077218750001,"end":5320.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5325.47721875,"end":5335.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5328.362843750001,"end":5328.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5328.37971875,"end":5328.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5335.33221875,"end":5339.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5339.010968750001,"end":5341.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5341.2215937500005,"end":5344.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5342.4872187500005,"end":5342.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5344.19159375,"end":5351.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5346.58784375,"end":5348.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5351.54909375,"end":5360.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5353.89471875,"end":5354.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5360.67846875,"end":5377.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5376.692843750001,"end":5380.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5380.69221875,"end":5382.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5382.43034375,"end":5385.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5385.67034375,"end":5385.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5385.82221875,"end":5387.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5387.07096875,"end":5387.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5387.475968750001,"end":5387.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5388.0497187500005,"end":5392.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5393.061593750001,"end":5395.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5395.862843750001,"end":5395.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5395.87971875,"end":5396.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5396.21721875,"end":5406.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5396.234093749999,"end":5396.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5399.187218749999,"end":5399.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5406.66284375,"end":5416.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5416.5009687500005,"end":5435.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5435.35034375,"end":5446.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5446.60596875,"end":5451.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5451.263468749999,"end":5473.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5471.6990937499995,"end":5474.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5474.989718750001,"end":5477.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5475.0740937499995,"end":5485.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5480.288468750001,"end":5481.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5485.6884687500005,"end":5485.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5485.80659375,"end":5486.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5485.907843749999,"end":5489.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5489.60346875,"end":5490.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5490.2615937499995,"end":5493.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5493.450968749999,"end":5502.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5493.467843750001,"end":5497.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5498.44596875,"end":5498.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5498.665343750001,"end":5498.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5498.6990937499995,"end":5498.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5498.935343749999,"end":5499.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5499.34034375,"end":5499.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5502.63096875,"end":5503.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5504.048468749999,"end":5505.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5507.153468750001,"end":5512.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5512.60409375,"end":5541.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5541.89909375,"end":5547.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5547.80534375,"end":5560.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5560.42784375,"end":5579.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5571.90284375,"end":5572.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5579.530343750001,"end":5610.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5592.0009687500005,"end":5592.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5592.2372187500005,"end":5592.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5609.247218750001,"end":5632.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5622.66284375,"end":5623.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5632.36596875,"end":5641.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5634.458468750001,"end":5635.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5637.225968750001,"end":5637.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5640.14534375,"end":5647.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5647.435343749999,"end":5648.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5649.696593750001,"end":5650.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5650.94534375,"end":5651.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5651.16471875,"end":5651.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5651.36721875,"end":5651.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5651.468468749999,"end":5651.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5652.61596875,"end":5653.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5654.7928437499995,"end":5655.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5656.0584687499995,"end":5657.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5660.057843750001,"end":5660.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5660.2772187499995,"end":5660.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5660.41221875,"end":5661.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5661.20534375,"end":5661.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5661.222218750001,"end":5661.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5661.30659375,"end":5661.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5662.15034375,"end":5663.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5670.503468750001,"end":5676.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5676.7978437500005,"end":5683.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5683.41284375,"end":5687.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5688.036593750001,"end":5691.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5691.61409375,"end":5693.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5693.520968750001,"end":5697.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5697.4697187500005,"end":5702.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5701.165343750001,"end":5701.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5701.637843750001,"end":5710.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5709.2822187500005,"end":5716.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5716.92659375,"end":5721.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5721.39846875,"end":5723.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5723.69346875,"end":5726.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5726.241593750001,"end":5729.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5729.81909375,"end":5729.852843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5730.409718750001,"end":5767.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5738.999093750001,"end":5739.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5739.032843749999,"end":5739.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5739.218468749999,"end":5739.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5755.94159375,"end":5756.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5756.009093750001,"end":5756.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5756.144093750001,"end":5756.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5767.956593750001,"end":5774.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5774.31846875,"end":5774.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5774.655968749999,"end":5785.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5785.00034375,"end":5785.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5785.8778437500005,"end":5785.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5785.911593750001,"end":5785.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5785.962218750001,"end":5786.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5786.02971875,"end":5786.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5786.0634687500005,"end":5786.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5786.147843750001,"end":5823.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5789.472218750001,"end":5789.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5801.622218750001,"end":5801.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5801.63909375,"end":5801.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5808.692843750001,"end":5808.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5823.9647187499995,"end":5857.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5857.3603437500005,"end":5857.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5857.7822187500005,"end":5858.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5857.79909375,"end":5858.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5858.4403437500005,"end":5858.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5858.72721875,"end":5862.405968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5862.557843750001,"end":5864.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5864.97096875,"end":5865.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5865.831593750001,"end":5868.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5869.00409375,"end":5870.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5870.7928437499995,"end":5871.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5872.024718750001,"end":5873.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5873.72909375,"end":5876.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5875.36596875,"end":5916.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5877.28971875,"end":5880.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5883.179093750001,"end":5883.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5883.229718750001,"end":5883.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5883.5165937500005,"end":5883.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5916.135968750001,"end":5916.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5916.30471875,"end":5917.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5917.030343750001,"end":5957.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5919.089093750001,"end":5919.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5957.49659375,"end":5961.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5961.25971875,"end":5961.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5962.019093750001,"end":5965.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5965.866593750001,"end":5967.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5967.790343750001,"end":5968.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5969.22471875,"end":5973.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5973.038468750001,"end":5977.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5977.544093750001,"end":5977.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5979.43409375,"end":5991.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5982.99471875,"end":5983.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5991.702218750001,"end":5992.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5992.022843750001,"end":5999.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5999.63346875,"end":6000.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6000.44346875,"end":6000.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6000.91596875,"end":6000.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6000.932843750001,"end":6012.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6011.142218750001,"end":6019.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6015.24284375,"end":6024.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6024.034718750001,"end":6040.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6026.565968750001,"end":6027.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6027.224093750001,"end":6027.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6027.3759687500005,"end":6028.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6028.0340937500005,"end":6028.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6028.23659375,"end":6028.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6040.65659375,"end":6040.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6040.673468750001,"end":6042.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6043.94721875,"end":6045.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6045.71909375,"end":6047.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6048.62159375,"end":6050.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6058.13909375,"end":6059.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6060.19784375,"end":6061.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6067.437218749999,"end":6067.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6068.39909375,"end":6101.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6102.16596875,"end":6106.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6107.059718750001,"end":6109.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6110.046593749999,"end":6137.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6112.8309687500005,"end":6113.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6113.50596875,"end":6113.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6119.7665937500005,"end":6120.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6122.567843750001,"end":6122.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6124.52534375,"end":6126.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6127.19159375,"end":6128.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6130.78596875,"end":6131.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6131.73096875,"end":6132.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6133.36784375,"end":6134.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6137.87346875,"end":6140.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6140.472218750001,"end":6143.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6144.134093750001,"end":6145.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6146.07471875,"end":6163.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6147.86346875,"end":6148.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6149.60159375,"end":6151.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6154.46159375,"end":6156.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6157.70159375,"end":6158.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6160.0809687500005,"end":6162.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6163.776593750001,"end":6164.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6164.87346875,"end":6166.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6166.42596875,"end":6166.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6166.965968750001,"end":6167.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6167.657843750001,"end":6167.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6167.6747187500005,"end":6168.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6168.974093750001,"end":6169.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6169.311593750001,"end":6172.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6173.192843750001,"end":6175.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6176.16284375,"end":6177.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6177.42846875,"end":6178.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6178.7615937499995,"end":6181.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6181.7822187500005,"end":6182.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6182.4403437500005,"end":6207.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6190.27034375,"end":6190.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6208.579718750001,"end":6218.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6219.9872187500005,"end":6220.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6221.06721875,"end":6224.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6224.54346875,"end":6228.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6229.116593750001,"end":6229.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6229.859093749999,"end":6234.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6232.575968749999,"end":6233.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6233.74034375,"end":6236.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6236.87909375,"end":6240.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6239.241593750001,"end":6239.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6240.135968750001,"end":6240.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6240.38909375,"end":6245.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6241.51971875,"end":6241.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6241.536593750001,"end":6242.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6245.8397187499995,"end":6246.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6246.16034375,"end":6248.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6249.467843750001,"end":6251.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6251.054093750001,"end":6251.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6252.032843750001,"end":6258.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6258.968468749999,"end":6259.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6259.542218750001,"end":6259.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6259.812218749999,"end":6260.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6260.4872187500005,"end":6261.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6261.972218750001,"end":6263.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6263.102843750001,"end":6263.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6263.609093749999,"end":6268.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6269.295968750001,"end":6269.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6269.31284375,"end":6269.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6269.41409375,"end":6269.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6269.5322187500005,"end":6283.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6274.257218750001,"end":6274.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6274.37534375,"end":6274.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6274.84784375,"end":6274.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6274.999718749999,"end":6275.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6275.050343750001,"end":6275.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6279.977843750001,"end":6283.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6283.79159375,"end":6284.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6284.02784375,"end":6284.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6284.6522187499995,"end":6284.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6285.05721875,"end":6288.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6289.124093750001,"end":6289.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6290.052218750001,"end":6294.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6291.925343750001,"end":6302.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6302.2528437500005,"end":6322.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6323.12721875,"end":6326.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6326.02971875,"end":6326.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6326.78909375,"end":6326.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6326.805968750001,"end":6326.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6327.00846875,"end":6327.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6327.02534375,"end":6327.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6327.29534375,"end":6329.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6329.03346875,"end":6340.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6330.467843750001,"end":6331.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6335.665343750001,"end":6339.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6340.27221875,"end":6340.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6340.52534375,"end":6341.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6341.40284375,"end":6346.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6347.663468750001,"end":6348.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6348.43971875,"end":6348.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6348.8447187500005,"end":6368.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6369.43221875,"end":6374.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6374.27534375,"end":6376.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6376.823468750001,"end":6376.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6377.9540937500005,"end":6394.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6393.597218750001,"end":6399.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6399.67221875,"end":6400.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6399.80721875,"end":6399.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6400.22909375,"end":6405.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6404.41409375,"end":6404.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6405.62909375,"end":6425.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6426.7059687500005,"end":6428.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6430.300343750001,"end":6431.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6431.63346875,"end":6433.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6433.860968750001,"end":6434.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6435.835343750001,"end":6444.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6444.15471875,"end":6446.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6447.175343750001,"end":6451.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6449.35221875,"end":6456.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6456.321593750001,"end":6467.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6456.405968749999,"end":6457.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6460.94534375,"end":6461.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6463.206593750001,"end":6463.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6466.98659375,"end":6475.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6473.466593749999,"end":6476.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6476.6728437500005,"end":6476.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6476.68971875,"end":6482.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6480.975968750001,"end":6481.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6482.03909375,"end":6492.923468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6491.92784375,"end":6492.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6492.029093749999,"end":6492.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6492.11346875,"end":6492.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6492.14721875,"end":6492.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6493.19346875,"end":6496.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6496.720343750001,"end":6501.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6502.154093749999,"end":6502.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6503.11596875,"end":6506.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6506.288468750001,"end":6507.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6508.347218750001,"end":6509.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6514.47284375,"end":6515.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6516.177218750001,"end":6518.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6518.64096875,"end":6522.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6521.982218749999,"end":6522.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6523.70346875,"end":6524.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6527.061593750001,"end":6528.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6528.782843750001,"end":6533.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6533.811593750001,"end":6535.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6536.02221875,"end":6536.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6537.186593750001,"end":6538.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6539.12721875,"end":6540.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6541.067843750001,"end":6543.126593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6543.76784375,"end":6546.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6547.294718749999,"end":6548.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6548.982218749999,"end":6549.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6550.450343750001,"end":6553.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6553.960343750001,"end":6556.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6557.13284375,"end":6558.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6558.972218750001,"end":6559.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6559.1747187500005,"end":6559.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6559.967843750001,"end":6562.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6562.70159375,"end":6569.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6570.19409375,"end":6573.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6573.029093749999,"end":6573.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6574.19346875,"end":6579.829718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6580.42034375,"end":6583.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6583.71096875,"end":6589.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6590.055968750001,"end":6591.220343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6591.57471875,"end":6594.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6595.52346875,"end":6598.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6598.965968750001,"end":6600.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6601.581593750001,"end":6602.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6602.610968750001,"end":6603.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6604.61909375,"end":6605.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6606.036593750001,"end":6609.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6609.546593749999,"end":6613.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6613.51221875,"end":6614.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6615.0478437500005,"end":6618.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6619.435343749999,"end":6622.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6622.8778437500005,"end":6624.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6624.90284375,"end":6628.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6628.98659375,"end":6630.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6630.842843750001,"end":6633.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6633.036593750001,"end":6633.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6633.23909375,"end":6633.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6633.25596875,"end":6633.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6633.9647187499995,"end":6634.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6634.015343749999,"end":6635.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6634.75784375,"end":6645.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6636.3778437500005,"end":6636.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6643.00971875,"end":6660.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6660.9647187499995,"end":6677.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6676.202843749999,"end":6687.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6680.03346875,"end":6680.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6683.577218750001,"end":6684.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6685.770968750001,"end":6687.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6687.880343750001,"end":6689.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6690.42846875,"end":6693.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6693.76971875,"end":6701.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6701.73471875,"end":6712.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6712.78784375,"end":6715.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6715.909718750001,"end":6719.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6719.72346875,"end":6721.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6722.187218749999,"end":6724.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6725.1572187500005,"end":6727.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6728.41409375,"end":6730.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6730.962218750001,"end":6735.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6735.029093749999,"end":6744.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6738.370343750001,"end":6739.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6739.669718749999,"end":6739.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6739.905968749999,"end":6739.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6739.97346875,"end":6740.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6742.70721875,"end":6743.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6743.5340937500005,"end":6743.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6744.15846875,"end":6746.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6744.90096875,"end":6746.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6746.92596875,"end":6752.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6752.41034375,"end":6758.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6758.95784375,"end":6759.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6760.37534375,"end":6763.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6763.46346875,"end":6764.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6765.10034375,"end":6766.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6766.669718749999,"end":6767.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6767.800343750001,"end":6768.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6768.62721875,"end":6770.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6771.10784375,"end":6772.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6772.964093750001,"end":6775.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6775.79909375,"end":6777.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6777.62159375,"end":6779.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6779.427218750001,"end":6785.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6783.10596875,"end":6784.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6784.860968750001,"end":6786.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6786.86909375,"end":6788.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6788.607218749999,"end":6798.782843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6799.10346875,"end":6801.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6802.56284375,"end":6805.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6805.98846875,"end":6810.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6810.34221875,"end":6810.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6810.359093749999,"end":6810.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6810.71346875,"end":6810.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6810.983468750001,"end":6817.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6817.98659375,"end":6824.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6825.360968750001,"end":6841.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6841.13909375,"end":6842.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6843.14721875,"end":6844.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6844.66596875,"end":6846.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6846.842843750001,"end":6851.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6851.92221875,"end":6866.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6866.8397187499995,"end":6873.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6873.4715937500005,"end":6881.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6882.01034375,"end":6897.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6897.872843749999,"end":6901.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6901.99034375,"end":6904.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6906.1415937500005,"end":6909.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6909.58409375,"end":6911.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6911.794718749999,"end":6915.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6916.38471875,"end":6920.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6920.9072187500005,"end":6924.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6924.602843750001,"end":6934.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6934.37346875,"end":6936.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6937.444718750001,"end":6939.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6940.04346875,"end":6941.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6942.05159375,"end":6952.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6952.952843750001,"end":6953.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6954.218468750001,"end":6957.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6957.880343750001,"end":6965.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6965.8622187500005,"end":6983.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6983.83409375,"end":7001.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7001.940968750001,"end":7002.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7002.514718750001,"end":7008.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7009.56846875,"end":7024.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7024.0809687500005,"end":7024.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7024.09784375,"end":7024.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7024.51971875,"end":7024.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7024.70534375,"end":7025.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7025.97096875,"end":7031.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7040.60159375,"end":7044.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7050.05159375,"end":7053.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7054.33784375,"end":7056.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7057.5947187500005,"end":7058.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7060.42971875,"end":7067.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7068.175343750001,"end":7071.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7071.21284375,"end":7075.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7075.870343750001,"end":7076.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7076.54534375,"end":7077.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7078.41846875,"end":7079.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7079.39721875,"end":7079.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7079.41409375,"end":7079.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7079.78534375,"end":7081.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7082.18159375,"end":7084.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7084.79721875,"end":7086.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7086.48471875,"end":7086.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7087.260968750001,"end":7091.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7092.23909375,"end":7096.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7096.28909375,"end":7097.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7098.06096875,"end":7099.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7099.93409375,"end":7102.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7102.920968750001,"end":7104.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7105.064093750001,"end":7105.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7106.1103437500005,"end":7108.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7108.9959687499995,"end":7110.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7110.58221875,"end":7111.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7112.32034375,"end":7112.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7112.894093750001,"end":7116.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7116.792218750001,"end":7119.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7119.66096875,"end":7121.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7122.276593750001,"end":7122.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7123.27221875,"end":7124.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7125.34784375,"end":7126.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7127.102843750001,"end":7128.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7128.77346875,"end":7129.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7129.904093749999,"end":7133.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7133.616593750001,"end":7136.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7136.991593750001,"end":7137.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7138.42596875,"end":7140.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7141.530968750001,"end":7142.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7142.290343750001,"end":7144.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7145.02409375,"end":7145.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7146.222218750001,"end":7152.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7152.56721875,"end":7156.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7156.41471875,"end":7162.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7163.21534375,"end":7166.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7167.48471875,"end":7168.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7170.032843750001,"end":7171.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7171.3153437500005,"end":7174.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7175.1122187500005,"end":7177.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7177.997843749999,"end":7181.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7180.495343750001,"end":7189.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7188.6122187500005,"end":7190.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7190.333468750001,"end":7192.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7192.64534375,"end":7195.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7195.14284375,"end":7199.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7199.5809687500005,"end":7205.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7205.841593749999,"end":7207.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7207.88346875,"end":7208.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7208.96346875,"end":7208.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7209.43596875,"end":7210.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7210.61721875,"end":7210.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7210.634093750001,"end":7211.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7211.20784375,"end":7232.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7223.59409375,"end":7224.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7225.75409375,"end":7226.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7227.981593750001,"end":7228.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7228.60596875,"end":7229.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7232.97659375,"end":7238.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7233.3309687500005,"end":7234.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7238.03909375,"end":7252.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7251.99471875,"end":7258.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7258.778468750001,"end":7259.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7259.993468750001,"end":7263.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7260.06096875,"end":7260.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7261.00596875,"end":7261.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7263.604718750001,"end":7263.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7264.347218750001,"end":7267.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7268.31284375,"end":7270.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7270.354718750001,"end":7270.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7270.94534375,"end":7277.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7278.0497187500005,"end":7278.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7279.214093750001,"end":7282.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7282.60596875,"end":7288.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7289.50784375,"end":7290.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7290.67221875,"end":7292.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7292.88284375,"end":7294.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7294.857218749999,"end":7299.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7299.76784375,"end":7304.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7305.38721875,"end":7307.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7308.07034375,"end":7309.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7309.94346875,"end":7318.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7318.83659375,"end":7319.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7319.747843749999,"end":7320.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7320.692843750001,"end":7323.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7323.561593750001,"end":7332.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7332.77534375,"end":7335.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7336.859093750001,"end":7338.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7338.44534375,"end":7343.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7343.6259687500005,"end":7344.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7344.19971875,"end":7344.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7345.33034375,"end":7347.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7348.70534375,"end":7348.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7349.17784375,"end":7354.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7356.01221875,"end":7356.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7356.737843750001,"end":7369.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7369.394093750001,"end":7371.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7371.33471875,"end":7374.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7374.0009687500005,"end":7385.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7374.99659375,"end":7376.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7382.387843750001,"end":7382.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7386.032843750001,"end":7386.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7386.62346875,"end":7388.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7387.80471875,"end":7388.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7388.142218750001,"end":7395.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7396.22534375,"end":7397.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7398.081593750001,"end":7405.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7405.405343750001,"end":7405.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7405.70909375,"end":7405.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7406.16471875,"end":7412.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7406.36721875,"end":7406.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7407.71721875,"end":7408.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7412.45909375,"end":7417.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7416.72846875,"end":7420.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7417.909718750001,"end":7425.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7425.19971875,"end":7425.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7425.38534375,"end":7430.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7428.642218750001,"end":7429.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7430.903468750001,"end":7431.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7431.44346875,"end":7432.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7431.544718749999,"end":7433.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7433.991593750001,"end":7446.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7434.05909375,"end":7434.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7434.2615937499995,"end":7436.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7440.6572187500005,"end":7440.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7442.96909375,"end":7443.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7444.84221875,"end":7445.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7445.87159375,"end":7457.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7448.9090937500005,"end":7449.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7452.14909375,"end":7452.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7457.852843750001,"end":7465.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7465.024718750001,"end":7477.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7475.048468750001,"end":7475.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7499.939093750001,"end":7503.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7504.5965937500005,"end":7506.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7507.296593750001,"end":7508.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7517.97846875,"end":7518.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7518.80534375,"end":7521.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7521.555968750001,"end":7522.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7521.792218750001,"end":7522.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7523.243468750001,"end":7525.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7524.9647187499995,"end":7525.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7528.89659375,"end":7529.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7529.63909375,"end":7532.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7533.48659375,"end":7539.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7540.37159375,"end":7541.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7542.24471875,"end":7543.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7544.26971875,"end":7544.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7545.01221875,"end":7545.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7546.59846875,"end":7547.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7548.454718750001,"end":7549.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7550.142218750001,"end":7551.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7551.76221875,"end":7553.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7554.1415937500005,"end":7556.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7557.5165937500005,"end":7558.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7558.967843750001,"end":7559.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7560.8915937500005,"end":7561.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7562.07284375,"end":7562.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7562.91659375,"end":7563.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7563.878468750001,"end":7564.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7565.31284375,"end":7566.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7567.067843750001,"end":7568.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7568.519093750001,"end":7571.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7572.923468750001,"end":7574.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7575.70784375,"end":7576.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7576.399718750001,"end":7576.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7577.800343750001,"end":7579.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7579.52159375,"end":7580.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7581.05721875,"end":7584.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7585.00596875,"end":7585.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7585.88346875,"end":7586.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7587.604718750001,"end":7590.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7590.76034375,"end":7591.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7592.3465937500005,"end":7594.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7594.84409375,"end":7595.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7596.10971875,"end":7597.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7597.679093750001,"end":7598.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7598.64096875,"end":7598.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7599.552218750001,"end":7601.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7601.69534375,"end":7602.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7602.876593750001,"end":7603.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7603.46721875,"end":7604.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7605.66096875,"end":7609.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7610.40284375,"end":7611.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7611.8709687499995,"end":7613.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7613.96346875,"end":7615.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7616.88284375,"end":7618.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7618.51971875,"end":7620.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7621.70909375,"end":7622.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7623.39659375,"end":7625.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7625.45534375,"end":7626.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7626.95721875,"end":7629.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7629.94409375,"end":7632.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7633.15034375,"end":7635.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7636.356593750001,"end":7638.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7638.90471875,"end":7642.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7642.85346875,"end":7647.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7647.7978437500005,"end":7649.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7649.55284375,"end":7650.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7651.392218750001,"end":7653.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7653.552218750001,"end":7655.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7655.948468750001,"end":7659.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7659.81284375,"end":7660.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7661.5340937500005,"end":7662.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7663.440968750001,"end":7664.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7665.85409375,"end":7666.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7666.27596875,"end":7667.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7667.8622187500005,"end":7668.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7668.94221875,"end":7669.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7670.03909375,"end":7671.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7672.013468749999,"end":7676.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7676.68784375,"end":7676.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7677.885968750001,"end":7678.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7678.965968750001,"end":7680.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7681.311593750001,"end":7683.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7683.85971875,"end":7686.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7686.62721875,"end":7687.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7688.68596875,"end":7689.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7689.4959687499995,"end":7690.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7691.21721875,"end":7693.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7694.4403437500005,"end":7696.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7696.904093749999,"end":7697.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7697.96721875,"end":7698.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7699.23284375,"end":7699.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7700.36346875,"end":7701.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7701.932843750001,"end":7703.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7704.10971875,"end":7705.814093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7706.337218750001,"end":7707.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7707.24846875,"end":7709.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7709.560343749999,"end":7711.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7711.905968750001,"end":7713.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7713.49221875,"end":7716.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7717.069718750001,"end":7717.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7718.72346875,"end":7719.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7720.61346875,"end":7722.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7723.954718750001,"end":7727.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7728.49409375,"end":7729.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7730.0634687500005,"end":7730.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7731.700343750001,"end":7733.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7733.35409375,"end":7734.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7735.260968750001,"end":7737.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7737.8934687500005,"end":7741.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7741.97721875,"end":7744.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7745.1834687499995,"end":7747.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7747.309718750001,"end":7748.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7748.96346875,"end":7753.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7754.07659375,"end":7757.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7757.4853437500005,"end":7759.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7760.286593750001,"end":7762.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7763.50971875,"end":7764.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7765.14659375,"end":7767.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7767.66096875,"end":7767.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7770.225968750001,"end":7771.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7772.6053437499995,"end":7773.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7773.077843750001,"end":7774.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7774.343468750001,"end":7776.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7776.7059687500005,"end":7778.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7778.30909375,"end":7782.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7782.44346875,"end":7783.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7783.860968750001,"end":7784.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7785.66659375,"end":7786.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7786.61159375,"end":7790.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7790.83034375,"end":7792.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7792.70346875,"end":7793.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7794.72846875,"end":7795.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7799.706593750001,"end":7800.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7800.735968750001,"end":7801.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7802.74409375,"end":7803.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7803.081593750001,"end":7803.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7804.499093750001,"end":7805.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7806.220343750001,"end":7807.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7808.86971875,"end":7809.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7809.595343750001,"end":7812.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7813.08846875,"end":7814.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7814.522843750001,"end":7815.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7816.0584687499995,"end":7820.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7820.49659375,"end":7824.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7824.934718750001,"end":7827.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7827.229718750001,"end":7829.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7829.59221875,"end":7833.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7833.72659375,"end":7836.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7836.66284375,"end":7846.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7846.247843749999,"end":7853.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7853.55471875,"end":7858.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7853.571593750001,"end":7854.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7858.583468750001,"end":7869.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7870.260968750001,"end":7871.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7871.155343750001,"end":7872.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7873.5009687500005,"end":7874.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7875.01971875,"end":7876.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7876.774718750001,"end":7877.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7877.87159375,"end":7880.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7880.21721875,"end":7880.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7880.72346875,"end":7881.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7881.0272187499995,"end":7881.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7881.0947187500005,"end":7881.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7881.128468750001,"end":7881.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7881.499718750001,"end":7945.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7881.53346875,"end":7882.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7946.26596875,"end":7948.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7948.9490937499995,"end":7949.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7949.185343749999,"end":7953.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7951.395968750001,"end":7955.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7955.96909375,"end":7957.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7957.8759687500005,"end":7958.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7960.03596875,"end":7969.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7965.01409375,"end":7965.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7969.823468750001,"end":7970.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7970.987843750001,"end":7972.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7973.16471875,"end":7974.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7974.7509687500005,"end":7975.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7975.577843750001,"end":7975.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7975.915343750001,"end":7979.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7979.35784375,"end":7979.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7979.610968750001,"end":7979.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7979.661593750001,"end":7982.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7982.142218750001,"end":7982.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7982.22659375,"end":7983.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7983.52596875,"end":7985.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7984.50471875,"end":7985.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7986.934718750001,"end":7991.423468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7992.790343750001,"end":7993.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7993.583468750001,"end":7994.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8011.015343750001,"end":8013.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8015.16659375,"end":8020.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8020.9715937500005,"end":8021.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8021.64659375,"end":8024.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8034.96096875,"end":8035.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8053.962218750001,"end":8054.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8054.63721875,"end":8055.497843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8055.970343750001,"end":8056.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8056.442843750001,"end":8057.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8057.11784375,"end":8057.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8057.944718750001,"end":8057.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8057.96159375,"end":8058.450968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8058.450968750001,"end":8058.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8058.61971875,"end":8060.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8060.25659375,"end":8061.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8061.8934687500005,"end":8062.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8062.36596875,"end":8063.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8063.04096875,"end":8063.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8072.423468750001,"end":8073.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8074.904093750001,"end":8074.954718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8074.9715937500005,"end":8080.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8082.514718750001,"end":8083.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8083.965968750001,"end":8084.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8086.7840937500005,"end":8087.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8095.32284375,"end":8098.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8099.27159375,"end":8102.376593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8102.376593750001,"end":8102.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8103.33846875,"end":8104.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8103.405968750001,"end":8103.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8105.17784375,"end":8105.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8105.565968750001,"end":8107.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8107.540343750001,"end":8107.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8107.75971875,"end":8109.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8111.06721875,"end":8111.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8111.08409375,"end":8111.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8111.995343750001,"end":8112.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8112.687218750001,"end":8116.298468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8112.80534375,"end":8113.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8113.4803437499995,"end":8113.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8113.9697187500005,"end":8114.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8114.03721875,"end":8114.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8114.982218750001,"end":8115.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8115.032843750001,"end":8117.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8117.22659375,"end":8117.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8117.78346875,"end":8117.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8117.91846875,"end":8130.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8119.31909375,"end":8120.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8124.63471875,"end":8127.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8127.8915937500005,"end":8127.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8127.95909375,"end":8127.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8130.67596875,"end":8130.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8130.794093750001,"end":8131.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8131.28346875,"end":8132.279093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8131.536593750001,"end":8133.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8132.83596875,"end":8135.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8134.1522187499995,"end":8135.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8302.649093750002,"end":8304.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8306.46284375,"end":8307.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8309.449718750002,"end":8310.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8317.245968750001,"end":8319.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8321.515343750001,"end":8321.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8323.06784375,"end":8323.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8325.852218750002,"end":8331.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8332.821593750003,"end":8334.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8335.285343750002,"end":8338.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8338.99784375,"end":8339.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8340.128468750001,"end":8340.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8341.140968750002,"end":8341.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8342.49096875,"end":8344.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8345.29221875,"end":8346.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8347.789718750002,"end":8349.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8350.81034375,"end":8354.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8354.97846875,"end":8358.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8359.652843750002,"end":8363.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8363.820968750002,"end":8366.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8367.094718750002,"end":8368.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8368.562843750002,"end":8368.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8369.457218750002,"end":8370.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8375.042843750001,"end":8378.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8378.87346875,"end":8379.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8383.379093750002,"end":8384.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8385.31971875,"end":8387.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8388.239093750002,"end":8389.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8392.20471875,"end":8392.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8392.69409375,"end":8392.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8392.710968750001,"end":8392.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8392.829093750002,"end":8392.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8392.980968750002,"end":8393.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8393.89221875,"end":8393.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8393.976593750001,"end":8394.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8394.43221875,"end":8394.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8394.65159375,"end":8394.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8394.972218750001,"end":8395.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8396.76096875,"end":8397.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8397.21659375,"end":8399.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8399.612843750001,"end":8399.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8399.66346875,"end":8402.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8399.71409375,"end":8399.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8400.304718750001,"end":8400.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8402.886593750001,"end":8403.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8403.64596875,"end":8404.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8405.02971875,"end":8405.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8406.953468750002,"end":8407.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8407.628468750001,"end":8409.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8409.94034375,"end":8409.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8412.15096875,"end":8412.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8413.433468750001,"end":8416.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8416.335968750001,"end":8418.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8419.289093750001,"end":8420.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8420.79096875,"end":8421.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8432.08034375,"end":8432.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8433.51471875,"end":8434.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8434.72971875,"end":8436.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8437.919093750003,"end":8438.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8440.77096875,"end":8440.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8440.78784375,"end":8441.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8441.800343750001,"end":8448.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8448.128468750001,"end":8450.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8450.305343750002,"end":8451.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8451.300968750002,"end":8451.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8451.65534375,"end":8455.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8451.672218750002,"end":8451.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8456.042843750001,"end":8458.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8458.962218750003,"end":8460.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8460.93659375,"end":8461.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8464.969718750002,"end":8467.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8468.05784375,"end":8472.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8472.36096875,"end":8472.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8472.934718750003,"end":8472.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8473.32284375,"end":8474.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8474.85846875,"end":8474.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8474.89221875,"end":8474.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8474.976593750001,"end":8475.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8475.449093750001,"end":8481.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8483.144093750001,"end":8483.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8483.32971875,"end":8483.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8483.38034375,"end":8483.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8483.414093750001,"end":8483.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8483.430968750003,"end":8483.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8483.66721875,"end":8483.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8483.80221875,"end":8483.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8483.86971875,"end":8484.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8484.004718750002,"end":8484.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8484.02159375,"end":8484.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8484.98346875,"end":8487.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8489.18534375,"end":8491.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8492.391593750002,"end":8492.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8494.973468750002,"end":8497.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8498.46659375,"end":8502.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8503.292843750001,"end":8505.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8505.047843750002,"end":8506.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8507.84909375,"end":8510.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8511.105968750002,"end":8512.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8513.29971875,"end":8514.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8513.586593750002,"end":8514.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8514.93659375,"end":8515.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8518.63221875,"end":8522.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8518.750343750002,"end":8519.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8522.969093750002,"end":8535.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8536.03034375,"end":8536.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8536.840343750002,"end":8544.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8544.653468750003,"end":8549.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8549.14221875,"end":8554.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8556.28034375,"end":8557.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8557.69784375,"end":8574.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8572.919093750003,"end":8583.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8583.297218750002,"end":8583.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8584.54596875,"end":8586.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8586.942218750002,"end":8609.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8593.219718750002,"end":8594.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8609.26784375,"end":8618.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8618.19471875,"end":8628.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8628.977843750003,"end":8642.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8642.039093750001,"end":8649.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8649.24471875,"end":8649.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8649.379718750002,"end":8649.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8649.39659375,"end":8649.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8649.531593750002,"end":8649.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8649.71721875,"end":8649.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8649.91971875,"end":8649.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8649.97034375,"end":8654.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8652.36659375,"end":8652.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8654.273468750001,"end":8657.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8657.78346875,"end":8661.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8661.41159375,"end":8666.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8666.355968750002,"end":8669.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8669.84909375,"end":8670.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8670.034718750001,"end":8675.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8675.940968750001,"end":8677.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8677.51034375,"end":8681.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8678.25284375,"end":8679.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8681.35784375,"end":8681.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8681.67846875,"end":8681.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8681.965343750002,"end":8682.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8682.03284375,"end":8682.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8682.539093750001,"end":8684.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8684.85096875,"end":8686.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8687.58471875,"end":8688.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8687.719718750002,"end":8687.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8688.934718750003,"end":8688.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8688.968468750001,"end":8691.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8690.824718750002,"end":8694.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8694.368468750003,"end":8697.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8698.55346875,"end":8708.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8701.219718750002,"end":8703.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8703.09284375,"end":8703.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8703.278468750003,"end":8703.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8703.97034375,"end":8704.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8709.20159375,"end":8713.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8719.22534375,"end":8720.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8721.149093750002,"end":8721.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8726.29596875,"end":8726.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8727.96659375,"end":8728.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8728.75971875,"end":8728.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8728.82721875,"end":8728.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8728.86096875,"end":8728.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8728.87784375,"end":8728.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8728.97909375,"end":8775.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8776.313468750002,"end":8777.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8778.22034375,"end":8779.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8779.469093750002,"end":8785.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8786.387843750003,"end":8787.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8787.99096875,"end":8788.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8789.66159375,"end":8790.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8791.011593750001,"end":8798.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8798.33534375,"end":8801.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8802.28409375,"end":8808.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8809.60784375,"end":8811.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8811.02534375,"end":8833.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8833.23284375,"end":8838.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8838.19409375,"end":8867.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8868.315968750001,"end":8880.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8881.37721875,"end":8950.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8950.93596875,"end":8958.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8958.68159375,"end":8975.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8976.19784375,"end":8988.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8988.21284375,"end":8988.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8988.43221875,"end":9074.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8996.65034375,"end":8996.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9038.820968750002,"end":9038.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9038.871593750002,"end":9039.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9039.00659375,"end":9039.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9058.868468750003,"end":9059.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9059.03721875,"end":9059.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9062.226593750001,"end":9062.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9071.187218750001,"end":9071.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9074.579093750002,"end":9075.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9075.422843750002,"end":9086.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9075.726593750001,"end":9076.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9083.860343750002,"end":9083.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9083.910968750002,"end":9083.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9083.97846875,"end":9084.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9084.062843750002,"end":9084.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9087.066593750002,"end":9094.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9094.930343750002,"end":9107.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9097.59659375,"end":9100.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9100.785968750002,"end":9101.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9107.02971875,"end":9110.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9111.805343750002,"end":9114.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9114.77534375,"end":9118.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9118.859093750001,"end":9119.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9120.192218750002,"end":9124.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9124.815968750001,"end":9125.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9125.59221875,"end":9126.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9127.414718750002,"end":9129.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9130.35096875,"end":9131.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9132.578468750002,"end":9133.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9133.91159375,"end":9134.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9138.07971875,"end":9138.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9142.58534375,"end":9144.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9144.77909375,"end":9145.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9149.90909375,"end":9150.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9150.989093750002,"end":9156.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9157.097843750002,"end":9166.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9166.851593750001,"end":9182.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9182.899718750003,"end":9185.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9186.19034375,"end":9194.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9194.89784375,"end":9196.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9197.19284375,"end":9205.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9205.680968750003,"end":9215.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9215.468468750001,"end":9216.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9216.86909375,"end":9218.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9217.78034375,"end":9217.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9218.10096875,"end":9218.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9218.15159375,"end":9218.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9218.97846875,"end":9225.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9220.88534375,"end":9220.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9220.902218750001,"end":9221.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9225.644093750001,"end":9231.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9233.27159375,"end":9241.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9241.253468750001,"end":9242.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9242.92409375,"end":9245.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9246.50159375,"end":9246.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9247.04159375,"end":9252.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9251.294093750003,"end":9261.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9261.28409375,"end":9265.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9263.29221875,"end":9274.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9275.121593750002,"end":9277.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9277.56846875,"end":9279.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9277.61909375,"end":9303.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9280.386593750001,"end":9280.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9283.440968750001,"end":9284.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9303.57284375,"end":9320.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9320.684093750002,"end":9320.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9320.903468750003,"end":9322.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9321.17346875,"end":9330.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9326.35409375,"end":9327.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9331.332218750002,"end":9347.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9331.41659375,"end":9332.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9347.97096875,"end":9357.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9358.450343750003,"end":9358.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9358.500968750002,"end":9358.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9358.51784375,"end":9363.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9359.51346875,"end":9359.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9360.30659375,"end":9380.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9380.320343750001,"end":9381.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9380.843468750001,"end":9382.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9382.125968750002,"end":9383.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9383.77971875,"end":9392.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9391.59284375,"end":9394.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9394.883468750002,"end":9402.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9402.76409375,"end":9402.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9402.949718750002,"end":9415.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9407.08409375,"end":9407.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9415.58909375,"end":9420.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9421.309718750003,"end":9426.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9426.203468750002,"end":9426.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9426.254093750002,"end":9427.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9426.726593750001,"end":9435.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9427.85721875,"end":9427.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9427.92471875,"end":9427.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9429.07221875,"end":9429.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9429.29159375,"end":9429.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9435.24846875,"end":9440.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9435.92346875,"end":9436.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9440.41221875,"end":9443.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9445.17096875,"end":9446.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9447.36471875,"end":9448.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9449.37284375,"end":9457.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9457.86096875,"end":9458.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9458.45159375,"end":9459.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9460.02096875,"end":9460.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9460.054718750001,"end":9462.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9462.02909375,"end":9462.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9462.383468750002,"end":9462.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9462.704093750002,"end":9463.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9469.082843750002,"end":9470.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9470.179718750001,"end":9470.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9471.36096875,"end":9471.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9471.968468750001,"end":9473.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9473.250968750002,"end":9479.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9479.39346875,"end":9490.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9490.46346875,"end":9508.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9497.26409375,"end":9498.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9508.97534375,"end":9514.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9514.56096875,"end":9529.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9528.617843750002,"end":9534.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9530.59221875,"end":9530.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9530.79471875,"end":9530.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9530.91284375,"end":9534.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9534.945968750002,"end":9535.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9535.620968750001,"end":9540.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9535.671593750001,"end":9536.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9540.29534375,"end":9543.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9542.25284375,"end":9544.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9544.46346875,"end":9545.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9545.391593750002,"end":9545.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9545.40846875,"end":9545.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9545.543468750002,"end":9545.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9545.56034375,"end":9545.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9545.62784375,"end":9546.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9546.03284375,"end":9550.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9548.26034375,"end":9548.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9549.593468750001,"end":9570.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9568.18971875,"end":9570.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9570.737843750001,"end":9575.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9575.56409375,"end":9580.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9579.293468750002,"end":9582.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9581.402843750002,"end":9589.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9586.718468750001,"end":9587.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9589.722218750001,"end":9594.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9594.54846875,"end":9594.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9594.97034375,"end":9598.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9598.81784375,"end":9604.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9604.605968750002,"end":9606.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9606.917843750001,"end":9607.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9607.94721875,"end":9610.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9610.90034375,"end":9623.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9612.891593750002,"end":9614.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9614.71409375,"end":9614.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9616.87409375,"end":9616.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9616.890968750002,"end":9616.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9616.90784375,"end":9617.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9617.71784375,"end":9617.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9618.055343750002,"end":9618.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9621.97034375,"end":9622.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9623.25284375,"end":9630.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9629.277218750001,"end":9629.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9630.542843750001,"end":9630.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9630.812843750002,"end":9633.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9632.41596875,"end":9632.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9633.79971875,"end":9636.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9636.80346875,"end":9637.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9638.05221875,"end":9639.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9639.63846875,"end":9639.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9639.672218750002,"end":9639.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9639.891593750002,"end":9643.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9642.355343750001,"end":9643.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9643.35096875,"end":9643.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9643.38471875,"end":9643.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9643.587218750003,"end":9644.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9644.009093750003,"end":9644.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9645.409718750001,"end":9649.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9648.41346875,"end":9648.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9649.577843750001,"end":9655.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9655.382843750001,"end":9655.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9655.63596875,"end":9658.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9657.981593750003,"end":9659.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9660.141593750002,"end":9661.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9661.339718750001,"end":9665.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9665.929718750001,"end":9674.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9673.000343750002,"end":9673.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9674.75534375,"end":9681.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9675.700343750003,"end":9676.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9677.489093750002,"end":9679.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9681.285968750002,"end":9682.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9681.31971875,"end":9681.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9682.973468750002,"end":9684.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9684.30659375,"end":9697.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9684.509093750003,"end":9685.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9686.179718750001,"end":9686.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9697.722218750001,"end":9703.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9700.050968750002,"end":9700.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9702.93659375,"end":9703.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9703.105343750001,"end":9708.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9703.45971875,"end":9704.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9710.68221875,"end":9711.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9712.16721875,"end":9713.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9714.05721875,"end":9714.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9715.862843750001,"end":9717.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9722.27534375,"end":9723.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9723.55784375,"end":9724.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9730.02096875,"end":9732.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9732.72096875,"end":9738.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9739.133468750002,"end":9742.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9742.99784375,"end":9747.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9746.22096875,"end":9746.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9748.296593750001,"end":9749.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9750.473468750002,"end":9750.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9751.23284375,"end":9753.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9753.257843750001,"end":9753.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9753.359093750001,"end":9753.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9753.39284375,"end":9756.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9753.730343750001,"end":9754.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9756.02534375,"end":9756.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9756.04221875,"end":9756.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9756.12659375,"end":9756.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9756.261593750001,"end":9756.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9756.97034375,"end":9760.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9759.82221875,"end":9759.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9760.109093750001,"end":9760.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9760.159718750001,"end":9760.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9760.24409375,"end":9768.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9767.719718750002,"end":9772.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9772.140968750002,"end":9772.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9772.461593750002,"end":9774.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9774.97596875,"end":9776.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9776.730968750002,"end":9779.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9779.110343750002,"end":9781.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9781.675343750001,"end":9786.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9786.40034375,"end":9789.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9789.50534375,"end":9795.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9795.63096875,"end":9798.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9798.550343750001,"end":9804.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9802.54971875,"end":9802.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9804.54096875,"end":9804.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9804.675968750002,"end":9805.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9805.33409375,"end":9808.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9808.50659375,"end":9809.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9809.890343750001,"end":9820.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9820.454093750002,"end":9828.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9828.18284375,"end":9841.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9831.405968750001,"end":9834.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9841.480343750001,"end":9848.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9849.074093750001,"end":9849.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9849.715343750002,"end":9850.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9850.390343750001,"end":9860.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9854.69346875,"end":9856.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9857.730968750002,"end":9858.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9859.671593750001,"end":9868.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9869.273468750001,"end":9878.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9878.85846875,"end":9879.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9879.769718750002,"end":9890.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9890.114093750002,"end":9890.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9890.19846875,"end":9890.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9890.434718750003,"end":9890.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9890.957843750002,"end":9892.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9892.98284375,"end":9895.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9895.159718750001,"end":9897.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9897.79221875,"end":9898.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9897.94409375,"end":9901.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9898.922843750002,"end":9900.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9902.73659375,"end":9903.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9903.917843750001,"end":9914.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9908.96346875,"end":9909.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9914.582843750002,"end":9918.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9919.004093750002,"end":9919.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9919.476593750001,"end":9919.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9919.93221875,"end":9920.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9920.97846875,"end":9921.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9921.012218750002,"end":9933.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9931.980968750002,"end":9933.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9933.95534375,"end":9943.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9935.42346875,"end":9938.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9941.835968750001,"end":9942.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9942.055343750002,"end":9942.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9943.962218750003,"end":9944.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9944.02971875,"end":9955.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9944.35034375,"end":9947.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9955.774718750003,"end":9962.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9962.33909375,"end":9966.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9966.54096875,"end":9978.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9968.903468750003,"end":9969.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9969.64596875,"end":9972.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9972.88596875,"end":9975.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9979.31534375,"end":9979.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9979.973468750002,"end":9986.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9982.977218750002,"end":9985.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9985.99784375,"end":9986.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9986.622218750003,"end":9986.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9986.84159375,"end":9991.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9988.360343750002,"end":9991.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9991.414718750002,"end":9998.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9993.13596875,"end":9994.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9998.08034375,"end":10001.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10000.425968750002,"end":10013.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10002.56909375,"end":10003.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10003.51409375,"end":10007.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10007.969093750002,"end":10014.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10015.410968750002,"end":10015.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10018.33034375,"end":10018.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10022.44784375,"end":10026.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10026.86909375,"end":10027.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10028.15159375,"end":10030.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10030.88534375,"end":10032.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10032.72471875,"end":10033.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10034.53034375,"end":10035.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10035.711593750002,"end":10036.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10036.69034375,"end":10039.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10039.508468750002,"end":10040.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10040.33534375,"end":10041.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10042.02284375,"end":10043.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10043.64284375,"end":10044.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10044.38534375,"end":10044.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10044.874718750001,"end":10045.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10045.02659375,"end":10047.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10048.13159375,"end":10054.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10054.83096875,"end":10056.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10057.31159375,"end":10064.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10065.192218750002,"end":10071.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10071.73971875,"end":10074.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10072.75221875,"end":10072.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10072.785968750002,"end":10073.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10074.405968750001,"end":10077.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10078.000343750002,"end":10087.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10087.63596875,"end":10091.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10091.48346875,"end":10095.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10096.10721875,"end":10097.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10097.64284375,"end":10104.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10104.64596875,"end":10106.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10106.60346875,"end":10111.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10111.919093750003,"end":10115.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10116.171593750001,"end":10118.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10118.16284375,"end":10118.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10118.196593750003,"end":10120.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10120.49159375,"end":10121.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10122.128468750001,"end":10123.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10123.512218750002,"end":10128.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10128.23721875,"end":10129.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10129.48596875,"end":10131.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10129.50284375,"end":10130.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10130.61659375,"end":10132.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10132.894718750002,"end":10134.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10132.962218750003,"end":10135.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10134.649718750003,"end":10142.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10136.28659375,"end":10136.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10142.83409375,"end":10186.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10186.270343750002,"end":10193.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10194.08346875,"end":10196.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10197.981593750003,"end":10198.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10198.977218750002,"end":10199.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10200.90096875,"end":10202.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10206.38534375,"end":10207.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10209.43971875,"end":10210.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10211.937218750001,"end":10216.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10217.067218750002,"end":10220.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10220.864093750002,"end":10227.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10227.47909375,"end":10228.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10229.301593750002,"end":10230.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10230.60096875,"end":10232.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10233.28409375,"end":10235.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10236.76034375,"end":10236.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10239.81471875,"end":10245.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10242.86909375,"end":10243.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10244.961593750002,"end":10250.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10250.58096875,"end":10252.09971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":23.524,"end":37.892,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":57.844,"end":57.964,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":144.667,"end":145.452,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":195.086,"end":207.511,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":228.353,"end":255.037,"text":"字幕志愿者 杨茜茜"},{"start":507.381,"end":509.869,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":589.773,"end":612.119,"text":"明镜与点点栏目"},{"start":699.462,"end":700.316,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":742.884,"end":742.965,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1192.221,"end":1204.548,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":1297.954,"end":1298.507,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":1412.554,"end":1413.677,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":1456.025,"end":1456.106,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1495.09,"end":1496.302,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":1574.541,"end":1574.621,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":1657.984,"end":1659.855,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":1702.511,"end":1702.923,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":1741.721,"end":1749.587,"text":"好第五位是基金委會第六次全體委員會議請主委報告初期人數"},{"start":1751.543,"end":1762.33,"text":"報導委員會出席委員13人以足法定人數好我們現在開會首先進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議事錄立法院第11屆第5會期經紀人會第5次全體委員會議事錄時間115年3月26日星期四9時至11時41分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員邱瑩等14人"},{"start":1772.057,"end":1790.884,"text":"列席委員陳金輝等六人列席人員公民交易委員會代理主任委員陳志明等主席召集委員洪立祥報事項一宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定二邀請公民交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告又該況並備質詢公民交易委員會代理主任委員陳志明報告後委員邱盈穎等15人提出質詢"},{"start":1791.824,"end":1811.58,"text":"經由公民教育委員會代理主任委員陳志明等即席答覆決定一於登記發言委員除不在場者外區域均與發言完畢訓達結束二委員陳昌明及蔡議員所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報三為其答覆部分請相關單位於一週內與書面答覆並複製本會委員另有要求期限者從其所定上會宣布完畢好"},{"start":1816.405,"end":1819.996,"text":"在討論數上不足待會再確定意思錄我們繼續進行報告事項請宣讀"},{"start":1823.408,"end":1841.936,"text":"一 邀請經濟部部長就能源轉型政策下我國產業發展佈局及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與依應對策略進行報告並備諮詢二 邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就AEI浪潮下臺灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及輔助政策規劃與執行情形進行報告並備諮詢宣傳並好"},{"start":1848.188,"end":1872.659,"text":"今天的專題報告排定是能源轉型政策下我國產業發展佈局及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略第二項專題報告針對AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力的強化及輔助政策的規劃以及執行情形今天排這兩案的這個專題報告"},{"start":1874.58,"end":1880.711,"text":"先請今天列席的行政部門做報告首先請經濟部何進昌何市長做報告"},{"start":1889.586,"end":1906.768,"text":"主席各位委員先進 陳鵬國委員會邀請就能源轉型政策下我國產業佈局及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全影響與因應策略進行報告敬請各位委員先進不吝指教"},{"start":1907.529,"end":1925.799,"text":"我國已經將能源轉型列為長期發展的一個目標積極推動多元綠能的發展並逐步降低對燃煤發電的依賴截至2025年燃煤發電的占比已經降至35.4%那在裝置容量方面再生能源已經從"},{"start":1928.101,"end":1953.538,"text":"2016年大幅增長至2025年的22.9G瓦顯示我國能源轉型已經逐漸展現成果目前多元綠能以離岸風電、太陽光電為主要發展的一個重點並同步積極發展地熱、小水利、海洋能等多元的再生能源持續優化整體的能源結構現行我國再生能源的總裝置已經達23.04G瓦"},{"start":1957.32,"end":1979.371,"text":"未來我們也會持續擴大綠電的一個供應那配合能源轉型及產業淨零的需求經濟部積極推動產業深度節能聚焦系列容量在800k瓦以上用電大戶辦理節能需求的調查及到場的一個診斷並結合能源技術服務業的能量來提升能源使用的一個效率"},{"start":1980.211,"end":2008.467,"text":"那能源的供應攸關國家的一個安全為確保我國能源供應的穩定政府長期透過進口來源多元化及安全存量等策略達到強化我國能源供應鏈韌性的目標那我國目前油氣的進口來源多元分散平時要建立能源安全存量的儲備的機制石油至少90天燃煤至少30天天然氣至少11天國內目前能源儲備是充足的"},{"start":2009.607,"end":2017.554,"text":"但是在2月28號中東情勢持續的一個升級那3月30號國際布蘭特原油的一個現貨價格來到123.42美元較戰爭前上升71%"},{"start":2025.28,"end":2046.42,"text":"整體油市不確定性高國際調研機構評估原油價格可能飆升會超過150美元一桶那經濟部因應中東局勢的一個急速升溫以在低時間啟動能源應變小組每次召開會議並急請石油公司提高油氣的存量"},{"start":2047.486,"end":2063.859,"text":"那以下就經濟部對於穩定能源的供應的機制與作為進行說明第一個在石油供應穩定的部分目前我國石油存量天數是150天高於法定的規範90天以上"},{"start":2065.06,"end":2088.029,"text":"為因應中東戰事及區域航運風險對來自中東地區油源所帶來的影響經濟部已經與國內的兩家石油公司建立緊密的聯絡網確實掌握石油的供需短期受影響的船隻已經有替代的方案並責請中油公司運理替代的調度"},{"start":2089.309,"end":2108.018,"text":"方案持續強化我國能源的韌性第二就天然氣供應穩定的部分我國經過和姆治海峽的氣源比例為34%經濟部已經折成中油公司全面盤點受影響船班並主動尋找替代的氣源目前已經完成五月底前天然氣供應與船級調度的準備"},{"start":2110.219,"end":2138.256,"text":"6月传奇的调度已经完成过半确保天然气供应无虞就电力稳定的部分台电公司也将依照既定发电排程来操作同时经济部也已经折承台电研理应用的方案全力供应能源稳定发电让国人及产业安心第四在价格稳定措施方面经济部已经折承台湾中油就国内汽柴油价格持续推行亚林最"},{"start":2138.996,"end":2162.548,"text":"最低價調整上限並視國際原油價格的一個變動有專案平穩機制吸收至少60%的一個售價漲幅同時政府也已經擴大對汽柴油貨物稅減增幅度至法定上限50%經濟部會在確保能源安全促進產業發展及兼顧環境永續的前提之下持續穩健推動再生能源的發展"},{"start":2163.448,"end":2180.019,"text":"經濟部也會每天持續追蹤油氣市場動態與價格的一個變動掌握國內能源存量及後續抵港傳奇確保能源供應不中斷我們也會持續掌握國際動態的一個資訊滾動調整應變機制然後努力減緩國際油氣價格大幅上漲的一個衝擊配合穩定"},{"start":2190.365,"end":2210.662,"text":"物價的政策來照顧民生以上報告進行指教那第二個報告請各位委員就AI讓朝下台灣傳統製造產業的競爭力強化及輔助政策規劃與執行的一個情形進行指教"},{"start":2211.423,"end":2235.902,"text":"那目前傳統產業的這個加數有8.53萬家就業人數208.15萬人以金屬製品 機械設備 塑膠製品 食品等加數最多傳統產業大部分都是中小企業調整的速度跟轉型能力較為不足按照支撐會的一個調查顯示14年我國重點中小企業製造中小型製造業的數位化比例達到99.9"},{"start":2240.685,"end":2253.894,"text":"數位優化及數位轉型程度達55.1%已經有初步的轉型的成效未來可加強運用最新的AI技術提升營運的效率至於在傳統產業競爭力強化協助策略與做法"},{"start":2258.116,"end":2265.582,"text":"我們以下有幾項措施第一個是百工百業要來導入AI那目前經濟部已經成立推動產業競爭力輔導團來協助業者導入AI運用第二 辦理AI的人才培訓以多元方式來培訓強化產業人才的AI的應用並依照"},{"start":2276.79,"end":2300.527,"text":"企業實務的需求規劃辦理AI應用與案例另外我們也可以來補助企業最高新台幣12萬元來提供他們AI相關訓練的一個費用另外我們經濟部產業發展署也推動辦理IPaaS的AI應用規劃師的能力鑑定協助企業依不同職能需求來申請合適的人才"},{"start":2302.268,"end":2322.584,"text":"最後就是協助AI進階的應用我們經濟部也協助產業按照特性及需求的一個差異提供客製化輔導或輔助那第二項是目前我們在產創條例的第10條之一也已經修正增列納入AI及節能減碳的一個項目讓這個"},{"start":2326.127,"end":2345.722,"text":"企業他採購這方面的一個設備的話支出的一個上限可以由10億元提高至20億元那適應期間是118年底來鼓勵產業導入AI及雲端的運算等數位的技術第三我們這個有一些研發補助的一個計畫來"},{"start":2347.203,"end":2350.764,"text":"提供傳統產業來做技術升級轉型包括我們的CITD還有這個產業升級產創的一個平台還有SBIR相關的計畫都會來協助產業進行技術研發另外針對美國關稅政策影響製造業"},{"start":2366.39,"end":2390.947,"text":"的一個部分我們也會在特別預算裡面編列了250億元來針對製造業提供升級轉型的一個補助那最後就是協助這個節能減碳的部分我們也有相關的預算來協助業者系統性的導入節能減碳技術與管理的一個做法並運用AI技術強化節能的一個成效"},{"start":2391.747,"end":2397.189,"text":"那至於這個傳統產業執行的一個成果輔導的一個成果統計到114年為止在AI導入的部分我們競爭力輔導團已經輔導1723家業者來強化AI技術的一個運用培育將近3萬1千位的這個產業應用人才"},{"start":2414.295,"end":2421.997,"text":"那IPaaS的一個AI應用規劃師的能力檢定到去年12月底子已經有累計有6500位這個人員來獲得這個方面的證"},{"start":2433.061,"end":2451.17,"text":"這個認證那在設備投資抵檢的一個部分在114年申請智慧機械投資抵檢的加數有1290家總投入金額達到1068億元那在協助受美國關稅政策影響業者的部分研發轉型的補助目前已經通過689件有762家的業者"},{"start":2454.372,"end":2460.756,"text":"補助金額是33.4億元那在節電減碳的部分114年已經完成251場的一個設備診斷742場的ASCO的一個煤核預估帶動節電20.3億度那114年也協助410家製造業完成減量的一個計畫申請預估減碳120萬噸累計這個減輕企業的負擔"},{"start":2479.507,"end":2485.193,"text":"約263億元那經濟部非常重視傳統產業的一個發展每年投入預算推動產業升級轉型未來將積極協助應用AI技術提升經營品質效能並發展刀子化的產品或服務那經濟部也已經編列461億元的特別預算推動"},{"start":2498.585,"end":2520.362,"text":"資金研發及行銷等支持的一個措施協助美國關稅受美國關稅影響的一個傳統產業來因應做調整那經濟部也跟傳統產業的一些相關工協會保持密切聯繫並不定期召開產業座談會收集業者的心聲並納入相關政策的規劃推動使得這個參考那以上報告敬請各位委員指正視角謝謝"},{"start":2526.009,"end":2550.518,"text":"謝謝何市長的報告在國安會業主委報告之前先進行會議事錄的確定請問在場委員上次會議事錄有錯誤沒有那我們就確定一次錄好接下來請國安會業主委報告主席各位委員還有各位委員會先進大家好"},{"start":2551.555,"end":2575.522,"text":"今天從貴委員會邀請就AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及輔助政策規劃與執行情形進行報告本會請就AI科技對傳統製造業帶來的契機政府協助傳統製造業運用AI之相關措施向各位提出說明"},{"start":2576.042,"end":2590.345,"text":"那敬請不吝指教那國內面臨少子化高齡化勞動力減少的情境如何善用人工智慧將有助因應勞動力減少之挑戰提高生產效率及產品品質"},{"start":2591.286,"end":2607.448,"text":"那為因應全球數位轉型浪潮加速創新驅動的經濟發展行政院已經在今年的1月核定AI新十大建設推動方案由本會、經濟部以及國科會、速發部等相關部會共同推動"},{"start":2608.369,"end":2617.815,"text":"在協助傳統製造業方面將透過百工百業智慧應用的推動策略由經濟部輔導製造業者導入AI並由速發部結合支付業開發AI工具協助企業數位轉型具體說明如下在提升傳統製造業AI應用普及方面"},{"start":2632.084,"end":2638.368,"text":"經濟部還有速發部等部會將協助產業運用AI升級轉型帶動國內製造業的AI普及率由去年的22.7%將提高到117年的50%那在"},{"start":2648.433,"end":2676.316,"text":"提供系統化AI輔導服務方面相關部會以提供系統化的AI輔導措施包括經濟部已成立產業競爭力輔導團提供全方位輔導服務那速發部也已發布AI產業人才認定指引建立製造業等領域之AI人才衡量標準等那在強化AI導入誘因方面"},{"start":2677.874,"end":2690.588,"text":"為降低企業導入AI的負擔政府也提供多元政策支持工具鼓勵企業加速導入AI例如提供購資AI產品或服務之企業租稅優惠推動數位點數補助機制等"},{"start":2697.515,"end":2714.586,"text":"那最後面對全球AI浪潮的衝擊行政團隊將持續扮演傳統製造業最堅實的後盾那未來將透過各項相關協助措施務求加速傳統製造業運用AI帶動創新轉型讓台灣傳統製造業在AI時代具備更強韌的國際競爭力那以上報告敬請不吝指教並祝各位委員先進"},{"start":2727.535,"end":2745.513,"text":"平安如意 謝謝大家謝謝國會議員主委報告中郵張總 台電王總有沒有補充報告沒有喔 好來 我們再"},{"start":2747.309,"end":2766.756,"text":"在進行之前先做一下宣告每位委員發言時間本會委員五分鐘必要時延長一分鐘非本會委員四分鐘上午十點十點截止發言登記首先哇今天開路先風換人了首先請登記第一位請中間一名委員發言"},{"start":2780.252,"end":2787.372,"text":"主席在黨委員先進列席的政府金融省官員現在設備好像還沒連結是不是請主席允許他們趕快調整"},{"start":2804.497,"end":2833.237,"text":"好 那麼有請經濟部何次長國發會葉主委那請法務部的李專委和調查局的五副局長準備好 主委副局 次長我今天呢是要請檢調依法調查台塑石化供應鏈揪出假減產真風台市場恐慌的元兇請教葉主委今天不是請你以主委的身份發言你最近有去市場買菜或去消費拿不到購物袋嗎"},{"start":2835.504,"end":2842.909,"text":"我大部分都在那一個大賣場但是你知道塑膠在目前好像市面上有恐慌是是好來謝謝你請回來次長"},{"start":2845.578,"end":2872.67,"text":"我要告訴你經濟部主管這個名聲其實問題不是塑膠袋是在塑膠力為什麼因為現在行政院要查囤積台價塑膠袋上游大中小很好查倉庫有沒有一查就知道對不對而且就算是缺貨購物袋環境部環保袋一堆也有替代的選項但是塑膠力他要做成一次性的包裁醫療器材食品包裝尤其是醫療衛生安全還有便利性不可替代如果缺貨了事情就大條是不是這樣是"},{"start":2873.43,"end":2876.977,"text":"好 那所以塑膠袋要抓有沒有囤積居奇的塑膠粒要不要抓"},{"start":2878.227,"end":2907.467,"text":"我們也會去了解一下來我告訴你來請那個李專門委員和副局長來我請教一下我們法務的專家來刑法251條囤積罪他寫意圖抬高交易價格囤積下六品之一無正當理由不應是銷售者會罰三年以下好那請問一下如果我手上我是大盤我手上有塑膠袋我放在倉庫裡不賣出去不供貨你們要不要查請問副局長"},{"start":2910.048,"end":2936.124,"text":"謝謝委員指教簡單回答好查倉庫是不是可以查得到因為烘台跟囤積依一般社會大眾理解烘台價格是指經營者在供需失衡災難或特定節慶時趁機以不正當手段那囤積要不要打當然這個委員指教我們一定是要配合調查那塑膠粒如果缺貨查倉庫倉庫沒有塑膠粒沒有成品沒有囤積就沒有犯法你同意嗎"},{"start":2938.322,"end":2967.468,"text":"好那往下看來先跟大家介紹一下塑膠力的最大來源台塑上游是台塑石化這個公司列解石油腦提供乙烯丙烯乙烯丙烯交給中游台塑公司的鉅烯事業部做成塑膠力然後呢再供應下游各種民生產業購買塑膠力來做成包材包括衣材食品包材還有倉儲物流連那些封裝袋都是國內的塑膠力來源台塑佔了將近75%如果台塑"},{"start":2968.368,"end":2997.376,"text":"不供應減產是不是就會造成缺貨好往下看來台塑第一部我手上掌握一份資料寫台塑的據西事業部營務處在3月10號發文給所有他的客戶說我上游的台塑石化已經對我公司發出以秉息減產奇怪為什麼要減產而且他們在3月2號3月2號祝華喔3月2號的時候呢他就說我對我的客戶因為上游沒有給我以秉息減產嘛所以我對你們的供應量一律砍半"},{"start":2998.403,"end":3023.926,"text":"各位啊 228 美伊戰事才爆發3月2號大家搞 搞不好一個星期川普就搞定了為什麼台塑石化要減乙丙烯供應減半減產都不減半 而且他的下游台塑石化他減產 然後他的下游就對他的客戶塑膠粒減量供應那這樣會不會業者恐慌提早購買 需求增加 價格是不是上漲了"},{"start":3025.06,"end":3050.729,"text":"石油輸出國料組織每次只要石油價格不好他們就聯手減產價格就應聲而起副局長你同意這樣的市場邏輯嗎?是好我們想要看二部曲3月10號是怎樣?3月2號已經通知你減半供應了3月12號的說法是說因為中東的戰事單位大大大大我現在不只減產我還調漲一公斤10塊半而且再砍半只供應25%"},{"start":3052.679,"end":3071.606,"text":"市場發生的情況恐慌啊之前是下個月要進的貨提早叫現在是有貨就拿不管多少價格價格這個標的可能是原來的三倍以上了台塑公司據悉事業部有沒有符合刑法251條意圖抬高交易價格囤積下的物品有沒有這樣的翻譯或這樣的一個要件構成"},{"start":3073.257,"end":3100.056,"text":"是 包委員如果台塑有減產造成中下流原料短缺引發塑膠袋的產能不是塑膠袋 塑膠粒跟你講不是塑膠袋是塑膠粒導致市面上有這個廠商烘台囤積那我們還是會繼續持續的了解但是台塑石化的三部曲昨天 昨回說話啦這些百貨通路商要供應塑膠袋也請中油台塑增產乙烯來 中油張總經理請上台"},{"start":3101.216,"end":3117.23,"text":"來 你會不會配合政府增產儀器你直接講會的 很好 台塑會不會 會他本來先把他的食用腦的庫存先握住然後我先減產 你政府叫我增產的時候 我產量全開啊"},{"start":3118.542,"end":3141.295,"text":"價格是什麼 價格是現在最高的價格跟主席申請一點點時間 我把這個講完好 所以台塑石化 名利雙收我請教一下 來往下看台塑石化囤積的是原料 不是成品台塑石化囤積原料 然後減產乙烯丙烯造成塑膠力供應不足 價格上漲然後台塑石化關閉兩條產線"},{"start":3143.456,"end":3172.085,"text":"部長 次長 你知道嗎台塑是佔我們國內塑膠力最主要的供應商中油還是其次 台灣中油還是其次它本來三條產線去年因為中國經濟內捲他們的塑膠力過剩 到貨所以國內的塑膠力很多跟對岸買台塑呢 它就怎樣 台塑實話就關掉一條產線因為人家想要進口的 不然要買我的合理吧但是二月底減產再關掉第二條生產線 你覺得合理嗎"},{"start":3173.383,"end":3195.769,"text":"跟委員報告 昨天那個中郵也召集了我不是問中郵 我問你台塑他這樣關閉產線你知道嗎我了解他們那個台塑石化他們有關閉一條產線你知道嗎 去年先關一條 今年2月3月又關一條來 法務部調查局兩個都請來法務部調查局要不要馬上立案調查台塑石化有沒有違反刑法251條的囤積罪"},{"start":3197.594,"end":3226.377,"text":"如果有違法我們當然會持續調查了解好來我請三個訴求第一請你們馬上去調閱台塑實話今年三月前後幾個月份跟過去歷年的同比他的以息秉息的產量的消長資料第二請你們去查扣他現在油槽裡面石油腦他過去進貨跟訂貨的存礦如果他都正常那他現在刻意減產囤積原料就有控涉犯刑法251條囤積罪法務部調查局要不要辦"},{"start":3227.972,"end":3242.539,"text":"只要有違法 報告委員我們一定會檢查的法務部專委要跑回去報告要不要辦是 有違法的情形我們一定會辦理好 謝謝主席好 謝謝鐘哲平委員請回座好 消費資源請邱映穎委員"},{"start":3255.097,"end":3260.582,"text":"好謝謝主席我還是請一下經濟部市長市長我想接續剛剛中委員的提問我要再次請教一下"},{"start":3274.165,"end":3297.601,"text":"經濟部在上個禮拜對外的說明是說國內的油品跟石化原料的供應是穩定的沒有短缺的問題是不是這樣那你們有沒有去比如說像剛剛中委員提出這麼明確的事證台塑先減產然後呢再因應卓院長的要求再增加產線增加產量"},{"start":3298.822,"end":3325.561,"text":"這個好像所有的這些塑膠粒石化原料要減產要增產全部掌握在台塑的手裡那經濟部你們現在掌握到的環節問題的環節到底在哪裡市面上買不到塑膠袋然後你們說原料供應無虞那現在被抓到了這個國內的最大廠商台塑去把這個原料鎖住直接減產"},{"start":3328.002,"end":3349.414,"text":"經濟部有什麼作為嗎跟委員報告其實台塑減產是因為上游的這個最主要是乙烯乙烯的部分供應是有一些比較短缺的部分那目前來講其實這個台塑它最主要的這個乙烯供應來源是台塑化"},{"start":3350.074,"end":3371.232,"text":"那剛剛鍾委員提到就台塑化他減產的醫療產線所以他的這個產能從14萬噸一個月變成這個9萬噸所以差5萬噸那差5萬噸其實我們也跟台塑化做了一些了解這5萬噸裡面其實原先是有大概有這個三分之二以上大概都是"},{"start":3372.193,"end":3392.305,"text":"外銷用就是給下游外銷用的那國內生產的部分大概1.1萬噸的部分是直接供給台塑做內銷生產的這些塑膠袋塑膠的部分我想要問的就是說到底你們有沒有掌握這些環節出問題的點是在哪裡是刻意囤貨"},{"start":3393.846,"end":3410.482,"text":"刻意不生產然後造成恐慌在趁機拉抬價格是不是這樣這是第一個第二個公平會呢我們上週問的時候公平會說要配合你們的這個調查所以公平會要啟動調查要三個月"},{"start":3412.023,"end":3432.052,"text":"三個月後會變成什麼樣子你不用三個月啦 三個禮拜這個政府可能就倒台了市長 現在人民去買菜去用什麼東西擺不到塑膠袋已經開始在罵了好 那我現在要再請教你們現在說協調小北百貨跟鎮宇五金去出貨"},{"start":3433.813,"end":3448.786,"text":"對不對為什麼是這兩家這兩家又不是專門在賣塑膠袋的為什麼是這兩家那除了這兩家以外還有什麼通路商是可以處理的你現在公布了這兩家會不會造成今天大家全部去這兩家搶塑膠袋接下來整個塑膠袋之亂經濟部要如何因應我想聽到的是這個事情"},{"start":3458.019,"end":3472.631,"text":"跟委員報告其實這個因為通路的業者來講我們現在也已經在協調一些生產製造商全力供應所有的通路目前我們已經有盤點20家的生產製造商"},{"start":3475.653,"end":3502.589,"text":"那這些生產製造商如果有缺料的部分我們產業發展署我們就會緊急來調料給他們來做生產那這20家的生產商他們也同意就是就目前市場上缺貨的部分會來做一些產能的一個調配所以我想這個供應的部分我們會確保上游端的部分在生產的部分是沒有問題什麼時候可以讓市面上恢復正常"},{"start":3503.389,"end":3518.88,"text":"我想我們會你的這個調節聽起來好像是有效率但是我想問的是什麼時候可以讓市面恢復正常是我們當然我們是希望每天我們去調查一下那個量的部分是不是重組我們現在每天對這個商圈夜市市場"},{"start":3519.58,"end":3534.456,"text":"的部分我們都跟知事會那邊也有聯繫哪邊如果有你沒有回答到我的問題我現在問你是說什麼時候可以讓這個塑膠袋之亂結束可以恢復正常供應當然我們是希望就是說現在就能夠穩定供應"},{"start":3536.718,"end":3559.549,"text":"現在就可以穩定供應是今天開始可以穩定供應還是明天開始可以穩定供應當然現在就是給我一個確切的數字好不好三天五天我都可以聽你的講法但是可不可以給大家一個確切的數字當然我們現在就是希望把所有的這個生產製造能夠完全的"},{"start":3560.489,"end":3565.693,"text":"這個充足供應那這個分配的部分我想我們會盡大力去我們來努力我們來努力盡量來讓整個市場的秩序能夠我期待經濟部能夠拿出魄力出來好"},{"start":3576.38,"end":3603.592,"text":"那我想接下來要問一下今天這個主席排定的這個議程我想對於整個AI產業的這個浪潮之下對於我們的傳產競爭力我剛剛稍微上台之前稍微看了一下今天的股市又大漲台積電又領軍又大漲看起來AI其實它的速度是無人能敵但是現在就會出現到一個很"},{"start":3604.977,"end":3628.129,"text":"很奇特的狀態就是AI一直飆傳產一直掉那這個包括國發會包括經濟部你們現在手上有的這個已經有傳產已經有導入AI的廠商大概只佔22.7%多達七成以上的中小企業其實是沒有導入AI的但是國發會說要在110"},{"start":3635.983,"end":3650.177,"text":"117年的時候要讓所有的AI普及率是達到五成等於是三年內要翻倍請問你們要怎麼做我現在看到的這個預算157億看起來很多不過你實際把它分發下去"},{"start":3651.462,"end":3677.808,"text":"你包括製造業30個人以下的製造業他大概只能分到10萬塊這個錢是很少的到底你們要怎麼做才能翻倍主席再給我一分鐘 何不請市長您回答跟委員報告因為中小企業的家屬非常多所以你的157億看起來很多但是你實際分配下去能夠讓他們能夠直接轉型到AI運用引用到AI的時候其實這個錢是很少的那你要怎麼做"},{"start":3678.208,"end":3700.228,"text":"是我們一定要是用一個集體的一個方式來做輔導啦也就是說大帶小的一個方式來做那目前來講所以你的大帶小是錢是給大然後小是附加還是說你要去輔導小然後才能把它整個帶上來就我現在提出的這些東西嘛30個以下的公司大概只能分到10萬塊嘛"},{"start":3701.249,"end":3729.076,"text":"是那你的大公司單一廠商最高可以補助到三千嘛你如何大帶小這個可不可以給本席一個比較完整的書面說明好不好是好謝謝邱議員請回座好消息資訊請黃義祥委員主席好我們有請在一個經濟部核市長經濟部核市長"},{"start":3737.619,"end":3757.441,"text":"好市長好我想第一個因為今天的題目是這樣子但是第一個我先幫我們這些產業界電腦工會等等這些來請命也就是說我們的研發替代液的話大概我們要在2029年就要全面走入歷史"},{"start":3758.581,"end":3781.06,"text":"那過去來講的話其實我們在這個97年實施到現在碩博士的替代役的人數以及企業用人的滿意程度那加上這基本上我們還是有很多企業的需求大概是差不多5000配合的話行政大概只有2600其實這個在我們國防比例大概3%左右"},{"start":3781.781,"end":3801.905,"text":"那因為他就要走入歷史要落日了所以我們想要看的是說可不可以請這個經濟部去跟內政部行政院這些人溝通我們希望能夠延續這樣的替代制度而且他對國家安全的科技發展是有很重大的幫助市長的看法"},{"start":3803.102,"end":3825.263,"text":"當然這個整個會涉及到整個國家的一個兵役制度啦那也許我們來了解一下為什麼這樣的一個制度會有一個亂這個就是產業的需求那我覺得這個制度也是很好的所以請次長後續去跟部長然後再去跟國防部或者是內政部溝通一下"},{"start":3826.428,"end":3841.544,"text":"再來我們現在的話呢在這個目前的這個官報這邊122沒有錯但是重點是不要忘記我們還有個301那他現在的調查的時程的話目前3月17到4月15是在意見爭取然後的話5月5號在辦公廳會那我想要請教經濟部的就是說"},{"start":3848.672,"end":3867.206,"text":"我們現在做的大概都是比較防禦式的比較是納共型的這種外交我覺得我們在反制的做法上面比如說你是不是可以用先進製程的出口的管制去做為你談判的門票然後我們對大概一堆的核能或者是能源的採購是不是做為調整結構性的一個順差"},{"start":3869.648,"end":3889.356,"text":"甚至你們也應該要跟日韓歐盟等16國發起被調查者的聯盟因為我們也不是第一次遇到所以我想要知道的是說經濟部在這邊你除了幫廠商寫這些英文意見書到底有沒有一些實質的一些的策略可以提供給經貿辦還是說這個是歸經貿辦負責"},{"start":3893.154,"end":3898.676,"text":"當然這個談判是在經貿辦在負責那資訊的部分經濟部也會就來提供相關資訊給經貿辦那目前據我了解就是說在跟美方所簽訂的ART的這個協定裡面在跟美方協議的過程裡面其實許多的這些剛委員提到這些問題其實在裡面也都有"},{"start":3915.541,"end":3925.854,"text":"跟美方也已經有達成一定的一個協議了啦所以我現在的問題是這樣子我不太相信美國人但美國人不可信是吧"},{"start":3928.342,"end":3951.932,"text":"那基本上來講如果他的美方毀約那他說ART不管因為ART只是所謂的行政法而已但是你301是他的法律案所以他的位階是比我們這ART要高所以他如果說我現在301簽完了反正那個這都美國說了算那這個時候你後續萬一他ART不用那你後面比如說WTO是不是要提起爭端的解決"},{"start":3953.012,"end":3971.886,"text":"或者是說我們的半導體出口是很強這個應該拿來作為談判的一個籌碼我希望這個在報告裡面的話你們再提供給經貿辦的也給本席一個參考因為我覺得這個對我們很重要你們現在有內憂剛剛前面兩個委員都是內憂我現在是提及外患"},{"start":3972.886,"end":3986.857,"text":"這個外販是馬上就到了是我跟委員報告一下就是說其實這個美方那邊他也有做一些對話說明希望跟美方達成協議的這些國家能夠按照跟美國達成協議的內容能夠來持續來推進那我們現在也在等待美方的"},{"start":3992.642,"end":4002.241,"text":"你都要交報告給我好不好因為我覺得這是很重要的事情大家要去不然就是忘記了啦再來的話就是你們今天的報告有沒有人看過"},{"start":4004.46,"end":4016.423,"text":"次長有沒有看過還是部長有沒有看過這是國發會啊到底有沒有看過我現在舉幾個例子你們在經濟部裡頭這邊所寫的這個報告3月25號輔導團應用加數是1584家今天就1723家國發會還停留在1584家所以如果照你的報告1.7天就增加了輔導139家"},{"start":4032.557,"end":4046.57,"text":"然後AI4產線3月2、4、5是50條建制中國發會的報告可能是85條以建制主席再給我一分鐘一下那你人才的培育也是因為數字你一開始3月2、4、5是12萬然後4月1號的報告又變成30989中間9萬人蒸發"},{"start":4054.417,"end":4070.704,"text":"很多欸跟委員報告其實我們這個輔導是持續在進行啦所以這個時間會有一個累積不是你的AI市產線累積也不會那麼誇張啊你3月25號是50條建制中國發後這邊寫85條已建制國會幫你加碼還幫你建完應該是85條啦目前是目前我們這個市產線是85條對啊然後你3月25號你的增加加速的話是139加7天"},{"start":4082.247,"end":4098.528,"text":"那你的輔導團才44團啊除下來的話可能一個輔導團一週完成3.159家我也沒那麼厲害我也走過啊因為那個都是過去一直持續在輔導所以可能有很多同步在輔導那國發會的報告也不能"},{"start":4099.309,"end":4117.072,"text":"也要去驗證一下我說你們叫AI內閣這種報告兩邊的報告也不check一下或者是也不consistent check就是說你不要用人看你用AI看也可以啊好不好那最後啦最後我覺得一個也是很扯的就是你們那個AI普及率啊"},{"start":4117.893,"end":4146.583,"text":"也是一樣喔這個我想後續我會再請你們來做一些報告那個普及率到底是什麼然後提升目標值也是一樣就跟國發會不同步啊加速也都要統計一下好不好好啊你們再看一下我那個書片因為可能是運用的來源不一樣啦因為我數據來源不一樣我後續再追好不好謝委員謝委員好謝謝洪義祥委員請回座蕭域子雲請真正前委員"},{"start":4160.483,"end":4165.461,"text":"謝謝主席我想請一下那個國發會主委跟經濟部次長"},{"start":4170.593,"end":4196.138,"text":"市長早謝謝主席今天特別安排一個能源轉型跟整個AI產業在傳統產業這邊的一個相關的備詢我想說針對整個能源政策的部分我特別關心核能重啟的問題因為其實核安會這邊也具體表示從3月27號已經收到了我們台電送出去的一個"},{"start":4198.419,"end":4211.643,"text":"那我想請教一下經濟部這邊有沒有針對我們整個核能政策的一個轉彎當中的時候我們的社會到底付出了多少的一個成本對於這樣的一個政策的一個轉彎有沒有"},{"start":4212.483,"end":4235.853,"text":"有沒有具體的數字跟委員報告因為這個會牽涉到就是說因為目前正在做自主安全檢查那自主安全檢查就要了解設備現在老化設備這是另外一個問題我想另外針對這個整個政策當中的一個轉彎的時候我們社會跟整個老百姓到底擔負了多少的一個成本那我特別來講一下因為事實上那時候我們還講到一個核電重點三個背景"},{"start":4237.714,"end":4254.195,"text":"包括了一個整個AI的產業的一個爆發那產業的需求那包括了一個比方說那個國際低碳的一個轉型還有一個比方說全球電能政治其實這三個狀態其實長期來看其實都沒有變因為這三個東西它不是突然間"},{"start":4255.336,"end":4280.396,"text":"出現的變化他事實上是本來就是我相信我們行政部門本來都預計在這裡頭可是我們這樣光是一個這樣一個能源政策的一個轉型的時候一個轉彎一個髮夾彎的時候我們到底花了多少成本請經濟部這邊之後給我一個很詳細的一個數字因為目前來說的時候針對這個我們這個核能政策的一個轉彎到底我們社會承擔了多少的成本不一而足有不同的說法我這邊簡單講一下就有人說從那個離岸風電"},{"start":4285.481,"end":4300.34,"text":"這個部分來看的時候呢比方說20年我們短購的價格就要多一兆這是一個說法那也有人說從我們這幾年在整個火力發電天然氣發電當中投入的一個資金可能要多個5000億左右"},{"start":4302.623,"end":4331.903,"text":"讓我們補助台電這幾年可能又有四千億等等那各式各樣那當然也有人提到說我們光是這樣的一個能源的一個轉型的時候搞不好就有數兆元的部分那我希望我們經濟部給一個很具體的一個評估報告出來因為他們這裡面可能有些是重疊的可是有些沒有算到的像我們這個社會成本環境的成本都沒有算進去那我希望經濟部給本席一個很清楚的一個這樣的一個分析報告大概多久可以給"},{"start":4332.363,"end":4332.483,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":4337.69,"end":4366.057,"text":"壓一個時間好不好這政策這麼重大政策轉彎應該本來就會有啊報告是不是給我們三個月的時間可以嗎好可以因為我希望一個很清楚的一個狀態從不同的角度來看我們一個這樣核能政策的一個轉彎的時候我們社會到底承擔了多少的成本那麼接下來我想問一件事情就是我們從2006年開始的時候每一週都有一個油價的一個浮動調整的一個"},{"start":4366.697,"end":4382.263,"text":"的一個評估對不對2006年到現在已經20年了那我想請教一下因為當時我們從中東這邊進口的有很多所以我們的公視當中很清楚講到了一個所謂的7D 3B這樣的一個計價原則"},{"start":4385.624,"end":4407.833,"text":"對不對那這個部分呢因為最近總統在講說我們到中油經過中油要跟中油講謝謝我都覺得很莫名其妙為什麼因為現在我們大部分的油是從哪邊進口從美油進口對不對從美國進口嘛美國進口這種狀態的時候我們7D 3B這樣的一個公式還要繼續嗎還是我們要做一個怎麼樣的調整可不可以請次長做個說明"},{"start":4416.332,"end":4434.364,"text":"因為我們那個那個油的進口我們希望說能夠盡量未來會減少在中東方面的這個油源 是所以目前我們從中東這邊進口的狀態已經低於四成可是我們的浮動油價消費者買到的油的時候呢還是用比較"},{"start":4434.804,"end":4449.641,"text":"高的中東的油價這邊來當作大頭啊來算那我覺得這某個部分等於是中油佔了消費者的便宜總統竟然還叫我們經過中油要跟中油講謝謝我都覺得這很混淆啊跟我們報告齁"},{"start":4450.202,"end":4475.138,"text":"因為像這個中油最近他們在調度這個天然氣的這個船的時候其實每一艘船會增加10億以上的這個成本其實這些東西這個部分都沒有特別的問題我也理解這個狀態那我只是覺得說我們對於原本7D、3B這樣的一個浮動油價的一個計算公式是不是在這個時間點應該要稍微做一點調整好不好請這邊的時候我們會做檢討"},{"start":4481.722,"end":4503.892,"text":"最後的部分我們今天也特別講到AI對傳統產業的部分我想請教一下國發會跟經濟部因為現在我們整個的傳統產業能夠導入AI的狀態條件非常的不成熟光是人才大概就沒有辦法真的在傳統產業除非很大型的傳統產業它可以"},{"start":4505.493,"end":4522.309,"text":"吸納到這樣的一個人才那對於這樣子的一個情況的時候我們國發會所提出來的一個新十大建設部分我們經濟部這邊具體在落實在傳統產業這邊的一個AI升級到底有沒有足夠"},{"start":4524.03,"end":4539.063,"text":"人才這邊怎麼去做然後AI在傳統產業這邊有多少的關卡那甚至於說有一些傳統產業他們一些老舊的機台我們要不要怎麼去做幫協助他們做更新當這些基礎條件都沒有不夠的時候傳統產業怎麼去導入AI"},{"start":4541.165,"end":4559.512,"text":"在這邊跟委員報告就整個人才培育的角度來講的話我們有分兩大面一個是國內跟國外國外的話我們當然是積極地從國外去攬去攬才攬一些AI的人才在國內的話我們也有兩大部分是因為國外攬才怎麼到傳統產業裡面去你要到高科技產業本身可以理解傳統產業要找人其實是非常困難的一個狀態尤其是要AI的專業人才那你要怎麼去協助傳統產業的一個轉型"},{"start":4569.275,"end":4570.777,"text":"在那個傳統產業這一個部分的話其實經濟部這邊也有成立所謂的輔導中心那有北中南東這四個輔導中心那另外就是那個速發部也有提出人才認證的一個引導啦這個部分"},{"start":4584.372,"end":4609.449,"text":"主委站起來了我不站太多的時間請經濟部這邊給本席一個更詳細的希望我們執行到哪裡因為目前傳統產業大概只有20%左右的時候有開始去接觸AI還有超過七成以上的產業他們其實還在一個荒漠當中我們要怎麼協助他們還是要怎麼協助他們做不同的轉型轉型不一定是AI轉型我覺得這部分請經濟部給本席一個更詳細的一個報告跟說明謝謝"},{"start":4614.172,"end":4614.192,"text":"國務委員"},{"start":4631.392,"end":4646.297,"text":"主委長 建於全球能源結構性快速的一個調整歐盟也在3月份的時候公開承認降低核能占比是一個戰略的錯誤而且他們加大"},{"start":4647.438,"end":4663.699,"text":"對核能的一個投資那日本在2月份的時候也重啟核電東南亞更有很多的國家因為AI的這個資料中心用電需求暴增跟能源安全的一個考量那麼他們也加速核能發展"},{"start":4664.64,"end":4689.641,"text":"可以看出國際的能源趨勢已經很明確的朝向核能視為兼具穩定供電、低碳轉型及國家安全的重要基礎設施我們再來看看本席在跟你討論也就是說在AI產業快速的擴張跟再生能源被動性的提高之下"},{"start":4690.402,"end":4717.912,"text":"供電系統的韌性我們面臨到很大的一個挑戰那如果說我們的能源政策沒有辦法就穩定基載的這個電力提出明確的這個方向呢那恐怕要投資的人的一個信心跟整個長期的競爭力是會受影響所以本席首先要請教面對全球核能復興跟AI用電的需求爆發那麼現在我們"},{"start":4718.812,"end":4735.182,"text":"自己本身現行的能源政策是不是足以能夠來支撐未來高耗能的一個產業發展還是將這些供電的風險去轉嫁到競爭力的一個流失請主委說明"},{"start":4736.222,"end":4761.875,"text":"謝謝委員在這邊跟委員報告就是說我們目前台灣目前還沒有一個確定的一個狀況當然未來假如說一些資料中心的興建或者是AI更蓬勃的發展的話對用電的需求其實是會增加是沒有錯那就我這邊的資料來看的話經濟部這邊其實有預估未來10年的用電的情況那每一年大概會增加一個Gigawatt"},{"start":4763.015,"end":4779.387,"text":"做整個供電來講的話經濟部這邊預估就是說我們國內供電會有1.2個GW所以在未來10年看起來是供需上面來講的話應該是還不會有很大問題但是我們很難去預估說10年後的有沒有更"},{"start":4780.657,"end":4799.165,"text":"大的一個用電的那個狀況所以現階段就是說經濟部他們有再重新再評估就是說核三或者是核二這個部分的話是不是會再重新再去經由兩個必要跟三個原則的條件情況之下的話去看看就是說核能是不是"},{"start":4800.706,"end":4816.894,"text":"假如說萬一有需要的話那是不是能夠及時的提供這樣的一個供電那你身為國防會主委你以10年來計算每一天世界的變化非常的大本席也提出世界各國目前的方向是什麼"},{"start":4817.734,"end":4833.1,"text":"那如果剛剛照主委您所說的第一個我們沒有現在這樣的預估第二個你說經濟部或許他們在10年會有什麼樣的方向但是本席認為還是有形因為這樣子的一個回答"},{"start":4833.92,"end":4861.305,"text":"跟世界的一個進度跟產業的需求似乎還有很大的落差所以本席還是希望剛剛你特別說了經濟部長市長你上來了那你就回答你們的用電產業需求AI的高機載量能你們預作怎麼樣的準備好跟委員報告其實我們剛剛主委有提到我們每年都有做這個未來10年這個電力工序的調查"},{"start":4862.685,"end":4883.792,"text":"我們推估以AI的需求再加上半導體的這些需要大概2030年我們會增加5G的電力5G以上的電力但是我們台電這邊都有一個增加燃氣機組的一些裝置容量的建置我們到2034年我們會淨增加12點"},{"start":4886.613,"end":4902.286,"text":"市長 本期要請教的就是說 你照預估10年你們怎麼做但是現在加入的AI用電的一個需求爆發全世界都以核能的復興為走向你們有將這個評估納入在裡面嗎"},{"start":4906.204,"end":4921.473,"text":"這兩項因子有沒有納入在裡面目前是沒有納進來我聽到你的回答大家產業就是在憂心最重要的兩個因素你們並沒有納入我希望你好好的去思考一定要好好去思考我們今天難怪產業會緊張因為這個重點你們沒有納入那你只有告訴我們這樣難怪產業會緊張好好的去思考產業的新生你必須要聽到"},{"start":4932.659,"end":4954.354,"text":"好 接下來本席要請教 現在因為中東戰爭的這些問題全球石化的基礎原料 乙烯 丙烯這些都已經有一點失控但是你告訴我們天然氣的傳奇 順利調度是沒有問題中油吸收了多少 但是本席還是要請教"},{"start":4955.474,"end":4979.236,"text":"導致下游PE PVC PS等原料暴增40%甚至乙烯暴增97%到現在是有錢買不到料而且現在呢市長下游的廠商反映報價一缸 三期 四期都有那導致被迫配給的供料的時候呢那你們掌控"},{"start":4980.097,"end":4999.832,"text":"真實的量能產能到底是怎麼樣因為現在下單只來了一半的這個塑料這是在最基層的一個反應所以台塑化台塑也宣布不可抗力那經濟部你告訴我們你掌控的實際的這個庫存嗎它的產能跟我們供應的缺口的情況到底是怎麼樣企業界可以拿到原料嗎請說說明"},{"start":5009.199,"end":5036.377,"text":"其實那個中油今天他已經啟動了四清的這個列結廠的一個運作會增加1.9萬噸的這個乙烯的一個供應量那到下個月他會再變成增加3萬噸所以這是供內需來用的話確實是已經是足夠的那昨天中油也已經找了台聚台化跟台塑大家來面商中油也願意把這個產能來分配給他們來做這個"},{"start":5039.319,"end":5058.971,"text":"昨天這個協商也就是我們中小企業目前你們有一個本席跟你討論一下中小企業他拿不到料你們經濟部有一個說媒合的作用但是媒合下去所有的中小企業告訴我們也就是說他還是供應原廠商"},{"start":5060.012,"end":5080.241,"text":"所以他一樣拿不到料這怎麼辦表示你們的媒合的當中的效能是產生不出來的我們要看末端中小企業可以拿到這個為重點對不對是那現在你的媒合角度要怎麼樣去調整哪些廠商拿不到料可以來跟我所以你的媒合的角度"},{"start":5081.361,"end":5096.989,"text":"你的方式必須要好好去檢討因為我們共同的目標就是要讓中小企業它可以拿到料嘛你整個經濟鏈才可以啟動嘛 是不是那你將你的這個媒合的方式怎麼樣調整順便再給本席 謝謝蕭瑞職運行 謝一鳳委員"},{"start":5119.261,"end":5121.127,"text":"好謝謝主席我想要請何市長還有台電台電王總經理"},{"start":5132.383,"end":5159.641,"text":"委員好市長就教一下我們現在在談就是核能重啟的這個自主安全檢查但是我其實很想要了解的是現在核二核三的舊機組那會不會因為我們現在用的是舊機組嘛那會不會他的機組的零件現在所有的供應商已經沒有生產了"},{"start":5160.624,"end":5180.626,"text":"這個部分是不是回答一下報告委員因為2和3的基礎大概40年所以目前我們所盤點出來的結果初步大概都還有供應商在供應可以供應幾年"},{"start":5184.632,"end":5212.433,"text":"對啊因為你這牽涉到你重啟自主安全檢查如果是1.5年後那未來在1.5年後你會不會有相關的就是說零件可以使用以及未來1.5年後如果這些供應商不生產零件的時候那我們要怎麼樣子重啟那這些零件要怎麼樣子取得這是不是"},{"start":5213.234,"end":5231.93,"text":"也应该做一下说明好跟委员报告我们这样说就是分成两类一类是河岛区就是在我们的那个反应炉那一代的那个设备那个是西医西医跟基医两家公司那目前这两家公司的那个生意那个量体非常的大"},{"start":5232.45,"end":5249.006,"text":"也就是說大家都在做重啟的這樣子的準備所以相關的零組件即使沒有那它的那個設計圖原始的設計圖都還在所以還是有辦法生產還是有辦法生產是因為這兩家公司還是你也知道是非常大的公司所以是沒有什麼問題"},{"start":5249.827,"end":5263.472,"text":"那另外的就是非核導區就是外面的一些發電機、切輪機的那些設備那些設備基本上都是可以有替換性的所以即使真的沒有生產那我們可以找到替代品來替代還有"},{"start":5265.137,"end":5285.243,"text":"你知道我們進行非核假業人就是說政府推動非核假業一段時間了那現在學校裡面相關的合工的人才那會不會有相關的斷層因為其實過去一段時間當沒有這樣子相關的這個經驗的時候 未來我們要重啟核電"},{"start":5286.583,"end":5312.893,"text":"這合工人才從何而來而且我們所有過去的合工人才會不會因為現在其他國家重啟核電了嘛那又大量的用核電那會不會已經跑到了周邊的 鄰近的這些國家日本 韓國 大陸等等去對不對 會不會去那裡就是工作那未來我們的人才怎麼辦"},{"start":5313.766,"end":5339.987,"text":"跟委員報告我們分兩個部分來看一個是既有人才在引進的部分就是學校那個部分我們其實每年都就是之前每年都有跟一些大學合作就是合工人才的引進其實持續在進行只是量稍微少一點所以等於是學校的培養的部分這個部分還是有的那有沒有被挖角就是原先的被挖角去別的地方"},{"start":5340.447,"end":5356.818,"text":"部分也會被挖掉那你們台電裡面的咧我們台電相對因為你們台電裡面的人也都走掉了台電有台電人的精神所以比較不會他們比較忠誠所以比較不會被挖了那這是第一點第二個就是我們還跟國研院"},{"start":5357.939,"end":5386.815,"text":"還有那個就是工研院這些外面的研究機構也在合作就是在做加強訓練讓他們在證照區的跟實務的運轉經驗方面在做強化所以這等於是內外就是新舊的同仁都有在持續的做這方面的經驗所以在那個試運轉計劃所以如果核電重啟不會有人才斷才的斷成的這個現象是不是這是必要條件所以我們人才的準備是一定要做到所以你們現在就充足了嗎"},{"start":5388.195,"end":5405.927,"text":"呃持續在擴充當中持續在擴充現在有減少所以持續在擴充當初減少是因為有一部分同仁退休嗯好退休那我們有再新進一些同仁補充好所以你們現在在新增人才當中就對了是都有些補充補充的這些人才的培訓都是我們在強化的重點"},{"start":5406.721,"end":5430.493,"text":"好 市長我再就教一下我們過去就是因應美國關稅的影響我們編了就是460億的預算那就是希望說協助這些企業在升級 資金等等的技術的方面可是我看到了460億的預算現在只核准了762加33.4億是不是"},{"start":5435.535,"end":5454.726,"text":"第一個是不是我們的方案沒有辦法協助廠商所以他們沒有申請還是就是說核准的時間過慢還是怎麼樣子是不是請這個部分說明一下新聞報告因為我們這460億的預算的編列包括研發補助包括市場拓銷還有這個融資保證"},{"start":5456.947,"end":5473.972,"text":"以及利息補貼等等所以在這邊呈現的可能只是一個部分而已所以我們現在每一個大概每一兩個禮拜我們都會追蹤而且會發布新聞稿會把我們的461的使用的狀況會跟社會大眾來做交代是現在我們會再送是因為是沒有統計進去應該是就是說我今天呈現的可能只是一部分跟這個AI應用有關的這個部分"},{"start":5486.176,"end":5505.556,"text":"那什么时候可以把一个具体的统计数据给委员会可以我们是不是一个礼拜一个礼拜内把具体的数据给委员会好不好把具体的数据给委员会最后我就叫一下国科会的业主委是国科会业主委"},{"start":5507.939,"end":5525.264,"text":"葉主委我想請教一下就是說現在我們對於要推動的這些數位就是傳產的數位化還有AI的普及率其實我必須要了解說國發會有沒有一個很清楚的KPI"},{"start":5526.024,"end":5546.918,"text":"以及就是說能夠去追蹤我們現在數位化或AI化因為對傳產來講他很難去自己去跨入那個門檻那所以你必須要協助必須要引導嘛那你們有一個KPI你們現在KPI是什麼有就是輔導這個部分來講的話我們在今年的3月"},{"start":5547.839,"end":5555.402,"text":"底為止我們大概福島的加次有1584那我們116年的目標大概會14000強那就普及率這個部分來講的話在提供AI的那個解決方案這個部分來講的話我們114年底是預計114年底的話我們目標是266個AI的模型"},{"start":5572.168,"end":5589.974,"text":"那我們116年底的話會希望說再增加140個AI的模型來協助中小企業導入AI的技術我是說國發會即便是你們做了非常多的模型其實我說的KPI或者是說真的能夠對於中小企業有成效的是說怎麼樣子協助他們轉型"},{"start":5592.495,"end":5608.958,"text":"就是說有用的嘛不是說多嘛是不是能夠真的協助他們有用而不是多有用的也許幾個就夠了那能夠協助他們真正的轉型而不是說你們設計了非常多的模型出來結果都沒有用"},{"start":5611.159,"end":5631.63,"text":"我們譬如說像在福島這一塊的話其實我們都有在追蹤案例譬如說像福島這一塊的話我們其實舉一個比較指標性的案例就是榮泰銅器公司我們都有在追蹤這幾個特定一些案例然後看這些案例是不是能夠把它散播出去給其他中小微企業做參考"},{"start":5632.658,"end":5650.395,"text":"對 我是說只要有用就是一個 也許就可以大家共同使用而不是說我們發展出很多的模型 結果一個都沒有用我們就這些指標性的案例 我們會繼續追蹤 而且繼續推廣謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝謝一鋒委員來 請先回座 委員賴慧如賴慧如賴慧如委員賴慧如先生賴慧如委員"},{"start":5660.083,"end":5675.515,"text":"好 謝謝召委 請何次長請金副何次長何次長我先請教一下這個塑膠袋的這個事件這為什麼會發生"},{"start":5677.2,"end":5693.087,"text":"當然就是我也知道現在就是整個美伊戰爭從中東的這些來的原油還有清油的部分他的船的這個運量可能受到影響所以連帶就影響到"},{"start":5693.887,"end":5714.695,"text":"所以現在處理方案是有加速來做公益嗎 校園長也要到剛剛提到我們中游其實在世青的部分今天已經重啟了那我另外要問的是除了這之外有沒有人刻意去烘台跟刻意去"},{"start":5716.695,"end":5741.102,"text":"所以昨天這個法務部也啟動了這個所謂聯絡稽查的這樣的一個行動那藉由我們經濟部還有公民會大家一起去了解一下市面上是不是有這樣的一個現象我們還是要提醒因為像這樣的事件因為像會有一些偶發的事件發生那發生了之後可能請經濟部這邊也要立即的去掌握狀況因為市場上的一些波動你們會掌握到"},{"start":5741.522,"end":5766.082,"text":"那如果有這樣的狀況當然如果是需要給物料增加我們盡快增加但如果說有人刻意在囤積有人刻意在烘台甚至希望去這個獲取這樣一個戰爭財的話我覺得這個要立即有效率做處理因為經濟部在這邊也扮演關鍵角色該啟動相關程序就要啟動我覺得這個未來我希望這個速度再更快一點那另外是可能要更提高警覺因為這樣的狀況"},{"start":5768.324,"end":5785.615,"text":"有新人絕對會在裡面去做更多的一些煽動那人心恐慌的時候 我想就會造成很多的分人是好不好 好 請這個再多多注意那所以像包括幾個五金的百貨的已經都已經有充分供應了嘛對不對是 我們都"},{"start":5786.195,"end":5806.44,"text":"都有在做調查這個就是讓人民安心的方案是政府有作為的話立即有作為人民安心的話這件事情很快就會消下去了是有原料充分的供應然後同時去打壓有任何可能囤積或者是這樣的一個行為的時候那這樣的然後同時讓大家知道充分的供應那這樣的訊息很快就壓下去了是"},{"start":5806.94,"end":5823.4,"text":"好 我希望未來密切注意再來我請教一下次長其實包括我跟邱昭榮我們都一直關心的這個中南部的一些產業的研發跟整個前瞻的我們不斷地強調它跟台北之間的落差還是相當大光這裡面其實也追了很多次到現在台北的是"},{"start":5824.221,"end":5847.022,"text":"Aplus這個部分230加21%的比例而在南台灣的重症高雄73加6.68我希望次長跟部長也要思考要找到一些方案讓我們不斷強調啦如果這些東西職群還是一樣集中在北部的話那南部的能量還是受到很大的影響我希望次長能不能定一個目標就是多久時間能夠達到"},{"start":5848.723,"end":5873.132,"text":"不敢說馬上就像台北這樣的水準但至少積極的去輔導去協助讓至少能夠達到一半以上的一個水準好 跟我們報告其實我們現在已經有輔導團那過去很多的這個企業他為什麼在申請政府資源會有一些困難是因為他們第一個就是不會寫計畫書第二個可能找不到主題"},{"start":5873.832,"end":5902.602,"text":"所以藉由我們這些法人團隊這個都是老問題的在兩年前我也都這樣那我希望的是要很刻意有心的去協助他們協助他們賺血跟協助他們找到那我希望我們從目標來看我希望在這半年內我看到的是高雄這整體的量其實是至少達到了台北的一半我們來努力現在大概只三分之一左右而已我希望至少達到一半讓那個整個拉上來而這個要設定一個目標"},{"start":5903.382,"end":5926.91,"text":"那經濟部跟所有的法人應該要朝這個目標去全力推進好不好我下次還會再質詢這個題目我希望看到的時候這個數字已經拉上來而不是只是在講著他們本身的這個相關的比較沒有經驗或鑽寫能力比較弱啊等等我想透過福老團應該我們可以把這個比例可以再往上我希望在下次三個月後在質詢這次這樣的議題的時候已經看到了整個拉上來了我希望達到一半的水準是好不好"},{"start":5927.37,"end":5956.349,"text":"再來我請教一下中油台電其實這陣子很辛苦因為包括中東的戰爭包括過去以來的原物料的上漲的部分中油台電吸收了很多本來好不容易有獲利的空間就最近遇到了中東的戰爭受到影響我也希望未來給予中油跟台電更多的支持在於整個包括中油的一些增資包括台電的補助的部分這個能不能請經濟部持續來協助"},{"start":5958.13,"end":5976.72,"text":"我們一直都很支持台電跟中油在挹注更多的這些資源給他們來穩定物價然後照顧民生那當然也希望獲得國內委員的支持那我先問一下現在中油的增資現在的進度是到哪邊"},{"start":5979.685,"end":5999.798,"text":"目前是已經報到行政院去了報到行政院了所以院裡面會支持吧目前行政院應該是會支持但是這個我們會編入預算還是需要送到立法院這邊來做審查所以現在已經送到行政院了院裡面也會支持然後送到立法院來了那另外台電的補助呢有規劃了嗎"},{"start":6001.399,"end":6012.368,"text":"台電目前大概也是就是說我們希望原來是希望說能源價格因為去年有要編嗎 現在有要編經費再來補助台電嗎目前還沒有"},{"start":6017.932,"end":6042.243,"text":"但是我們看整個情況的一個發展如果需要的話我們再來研議當然從去年情況本來這個獲利狀況不錯啦但現在又遇到了中東這樣的問題我希望該支持台電該支持中油的部分我希望經濟部跟行政院還是要全力的支持不要讓他們在第一線承擔國家一些政策上的要求反倒是讓台電的公司跟台電的員工受到的影響經濟部的全力支持好 謝謝謝謝賴總委員 國務院請先回座"},{"start":6048.706,"end":6058.76,"text":"下一位執行請李玉玲委員謝謝主席 請次長 何次長"},{"start":6067.469,"end":6087.004,"text":"委員好 次長因為國際能源局勢的震盪我們國內的產業跟民生用電不斷的提高所以我們的政府也要重新的來檢視我們能源政策的合理性也把我們的核能列為選項之一但是本席要在這邊強調我們的再生能源部分我們還是要來重視那現在本來是再生能源在2025年的時候我們達到20%那部長後來也坦言了可能就要二度跳票"},{"start":6096.531,"end":6121.584,"text":"但是我們不能無限期一直延宕所以請問這個20%我們什麼時候可以達到當然這個會隨著我們這個用電的成長因為母樹會成長你就評估說什麼時候不用講這個細則啦我們會再努力啦努力就是每年所以無限期延期不會 應該也會很快就會達到因為我們2030年有一個目標"},{"start":6122.584,"end":6123.425,"text":"所以你沒有時間表啦"},{"start":6146.507,"end":6167.814,"text":"至少去年會講今年啊那你今年不敢講什麼時候各種不同的這個綠能包括小水利包括這個所以總評估會什麼時候達成不知道當然我們現在會滾動但是2030年會達到嗎2030年會到百分之三十的這樣的目標百分之三十是哪一年達到2030年2030年就要達到對好那你知道2050年要達到多少嗎"},{"start":6173.274,"end":6177.879,"text":"你們有一個淨零排放的這個路徑嘛國發會公布的 葉主委"},{"start":6179.223,"end":6190.566,"text":"大概60到70左右了好這都是你我們的指標我希望你們能夠努力那本席會這樣子問就是憂心因為美伊這個戰爭不知道什麼時候結束那我們受到中東部分的這個原油的問題我們現在也要分散我們的能源的採購到澳洲跟美國那但是我們跟中東不只是買賣的關係我們還有投資的關係就是卡達我們有投資了北方"},{"start":6208.989,"end":6214.113,"text":"棄田東段計畫將近有5%的這個股權109億那現在戰爭一直在發生有沒有在評估我們在這方面的話我們的設備等等這些設備還有這個投資的預算會不會增加"},{"start":6229.892,"end":6234.614,"text":"那本來是今年11月會要生產啦 但是後來因為戰事的關係每年會分配40萬桶的 40萬噸的這個40萬噸的天然氣 那現在已經停工了那明年的40萬噸就不可能了 是不是"},{"start":6252.236,"end":6268.046,"text":"會不會 明年會不會我們會再尋找替代替代的這個來源所以明年就不可能有40萬噸的天然氣嗎其實我們會有其他的從其他國家來的本來我們預估明年會分配回來現在沒有辦法分配了那可以知道什麼時候分配回來嗎"},{"start":6269.692,"end":6283.326,"text":"因為我們都沒有去評估這個風險看整個戰事還有整個設備那這個戰事已經發生了因為他也一直攻擊了這個卡達的那個油田的嘛那如果這種情形我們會不會我們會不會要增加這個投資的預算"},{"start":6290.094,"end":6311.901,"text":"可能我們要先了解一下這些都要評估出來因為我們現在受到全球能源供給的壓力所以中油這部分也要趕快跟其他的國家簽約但是我們現在看到美國的川普本來是對俄羅斯有制裁所以大家都沒有再跟俄羅斯簽約那現在"},{"start":6313.721,"end":6332.094,"text":"我們國家本來2017年到2022年有跟俄羅斯簽約後面就沒有簽約了那現在放寬的時候我們要不要繼續簽約目前是沒有考慮到沒有考慮繼續簽約的部分因為在別的國家已經有採購了是嗎是 我們有其他的來源我們盡量就是說從美國 從其他西非 巴西這些國家來調度好"},{"start":6341.481,"end":6346.656,"text":"那接下來我們想謝謝那個部長你就先請回我請葉主委喔"},{"start":6347.968,"end":6375.776,"text":"藝術委 委員好AI是我們一直在推的尤其是製造業的AI我們是用輔導在輔導那AI現在是新十大建設啦那而且也特別你們國發會有評估出來說如果說AI在2040年可以創造15兆的產值50萬的高薪工作機會這個評估這個目標會不會太過於樂觀你有沒有短中長期的一個計畫有有有 因為就"},{"start":6378.004,"end":6399.206,"text":"第一個就是說我們這個設定那個2040年45兆的話其實有一個設算的基礎其實我們會就我們目前比如說到2028年我們會達到哪一個目標那2035年會達到哪一個目標那2040年也會達到所以有短中長期的計畫嗎你必須有短中長期的話我們才可以知道說你們的成效的一個成果出來"},{"start":6400.347,"end":6419.321,"text":"那為什麼要這樣子問因為我們看到一般的製造業的AI我們看到製造業我們要輔導的產業全台灣製造業總共有9.96萬家到目前去年10月份你們的資料裡面在產業的輔導你有個產業的輔導團現在輔導只有526家而且這526家幾乎是大企業"},{"start":6430.516,"end":6441.845,"text":"獨厚大企業那一般的中小企業的你們有沒有在輔導這個部分的話我們還是就經濟部的資料來講的話經濟部會持續在推動所謂的輔導中心那經濟部我們請問何次長"},{"start":6447.23,"end":6455.376,"text":"你們有沒有認真說這個不會不會說只讀後發企業啦其實我們對中小企業最主要還是也輔導中小企業為主啦可是目前裡面526家我們將近有10萬家的製造業喔你只有輔導526家這比例原則會讓未來的話沒有跟上的話就被淘汰了跟我們報告我們的報告裡面是有1723家我們已經有協助這麼多的家屬來協助他們做AI技術的運用總共有將近10萬家"},{"start":6477.35,"end":6505.703,"text":"對 所以我們現在還是持續在輔導輔導當中所以我們希望你們擴大輔導的這些資源這些能量不然的話沒有跟上去的人就會被淘汰了而且不要都獨厚大企業變成大企業的專利好不好是 謝謝謝謝李議員委員來 國安委員請先回座消費諮詢請陳昌明委員陳昌明委員待會你諮詢完 麻煩你留下等一下你記錯了 你留下因為下一位置我諮詢"},{"start":6514.89,"end":6519.515,"text":"主席啊首先有請我們國安會業主委還有我們經濟部的副部長委員長"},{"start":6527.119,"end":6556.278,"text":"首先我請教一下尤其國發會的主委跟我們經濟部的何處長你覺得美以跟伊朗的戰爭這個是能源戰整個現在打得很激烈你覺得這樣的問題會持續多久不要隨便回答你是我們經濟計畫最主要的一個規劃者經濟部是主要在執行著"},{"start":6557.62,"end":6573.037,"text":"您的看法怎麼樣依照美國智庫的預估啦這個比較有可能的情況是會打四周到八周所以從二月底這樣推算回來應該在四月底之前這是機率比較高這是美國的智庫預估的"},{"start":6574.258,"end":6600.516,"text":"但是整个世界都变化现在谁也不能掌控谁谁也不能掌控别人我觉得这个战争可能会持续很久美国之后讲四到八座好像他们答应如果从其他的群来看的话这场仗打起来是会天翻地覆的那我现在你们不能讲四到八座你要有长远的规划"},{"start":6601.933,"end":6627.819,"text":"萬一我們的天然氣如果能不能在別的地方能繼續的採購現在每一條船幾乎都增加了10億萬一這個世界一直在動盪不安在持續亂下來我們的對岸把你封鎖起來你要怎麼辦所以做任何事情你要想要做到一個最壞的打算"},{"start":6629.039,"end":6636.607,"text":"你們現在抱得很平安但是這裡面牽扯很大你一定要做到最壞的狀況會成什麼樣子但是我們都會再做滾動式的調整不會說因為這樣子我們就放棄了後面的規劃對 當然要準備"},{"start":6645.396,"end":6660.114,"text":"你說都要採購油鹽有沒有很薄如果那邊繼續下來整個都封掉了包括紅磚包括沙烏地那整個整個油漆都會被打掉生殖劑都會被打掉看起來現在的局勢是這樣"},{"start":6661.495,"end":6689.081,"text":"經濟部的資料告訴我們就是說五月底之前LNG是沒問題那六月的話也大部分都已經到位大概只剩下六七三還沒有但這個都持續在補充當中那我們會隨著整個局勢的變化做滾動式的調整要為臺灣的能源做好最大的一個準備萬一能源斷了臺灣的命脈我大概會指揮一下所以你們要好好努力好好加油謝謝委員那第二個問題我要請教"},{"start":6690.901,"end":6719.001,"text":"現在剛剛那個中委員提到那上次我請教我們經濟部長所有石化的產品都在漲價都買不到貨那我們的拱部長說買不到貨不可能我問他如果苗栗的工廠買不到貨我跟他調他說好沒有問題但是這樣的情形已經在發生這個發生了又要通貨膨脹所以控制不了"},{"start":6719.801,"end":6746.182,"text":"因為你來人稀少你缺貨這是我們要面臨的問題所以在這一方面我們要如何來應對要來準備假如委員有知道哪一家廠商掉不到貨的話可以請經濟部我還沒我是在高鐵上兩三家碰到我做售銷的我跟您報告一下因為最主要我們是要讓這個他講的台收那個是真的我們國內的市場要那麼穩定你不要以為假的"},{"start":6747.063,"end":6769.569,"text":"是以前廠商都跟我們講暫停報價暫停停貨4月1號才報價所以我們現在當務之急就是說第一個確保生產不會斷貨斷料那所以台塑今天中油已經啟動了四清的一個運作那今天開始這個月會增加1.9萬"},{"start":6771.669,"end":6798.53,"text":"噸的這個乙烯那下個月會增加變三萬噸所以這樣的一個供給量他會優先供給給做塑膠袋做衣材的這個廠商來加速這個生產我要接到一個消息現在我們啊公家單位在鋪柏油路的也要斷貨了都是停止不報價了不報價了那很多道路都鋪到一半都停下來啊是"},{"start":6799.75,"end":6824.556,"text":"這個輪入要特別注意的一個現象那個綠圈大概以前都是進口啦那現在這都是從中東、伊朗進口那個比較便宜啦現在整個所以你們要掌握整個狀況要有靈活的應用好不好還有剛剛講到10年10年4月1號宣布它的石油它的油氣不出口啦"},{"start":6825.444,"end":6839.348,"text":"全部擋下來所以我們面臨的危機跟美國我們能不能買得到跟澳洲能不能買得到大家都在搶貨這個要特別注意一下我希望這個要好好做應用的設施"},{"start":6841.309,"end":6865.977,"text":"再來談到AIAI的話真的是百功百業我希望國華會我們的經濟部跟社會部要去分工你要如何去分工?因為這就叫學習要成長要跟人一樣當然現在人的機器人還有很多零件不能像人這樣的靈活那腦力的方面這邊大概沒有問題"},{"start":6867.337,"end":6888.276,"text":"現在就是在你的視覺在你視覺在你手腳的應用要自行判斷所以百工百業每一個人在學習的環境不一樣尤其我們前端的話包括設計那些我們困難但是我們在製造方面專長但是我們最重要一塊就是說皮子電安捏"},{"start":6889.457,"end":6904.03,"text":"你要設計一個模型啊那個譬如水泥工要什麼模型都要設計出來以後才會有成效那我一直強調一件事情要學習的熱潮那要應用AI最重要要會問問題"},{"start":6906.812,"end":6923.119,"text":"問問題才能去得到一個正確的答案所以如果學習這場像電視台那些名字叫他們不要亂講你要播一段時間政府播一段時間講AI的重要讓全民去學習那都是亂講話啦"},{"start":6924.66,"end":6953.229,"text":"我們是講真的話在立法會我們都很清楚你大王他這樣現在很多人在看他這樣看他越新鮮越好越刺激越好但是都說一些無所謂我是指到說你們強制每一個電視台每一個名嘴在那個廣播的節目請大家學習AI增強台灣未來的競爭力讓大家曉得這個事情的重要你們在說"},{"start":6954.289,"end":6983.157,"text":"有做生意的人做產業的人有了解但是很多不曉得怎樣去實力因為這都有基礎老師的經驗也不交給你第二交給你以後給AI人來做他的職位又要被替代了這個人性的問題在這邊要如何去突破要如何這樣子台灣每一個人有學習AI的這種熱場因為這是未來的一個戰力非常非常的重要"},{"start":6984.137,"end":7000.142,"text":"白宮白夜市在經濟部那邊把他分門白列找一家公司專門研究他怎樣做蛋糕怎樣去那個都是要學習的一個過程把他思考裡面才會應用得當我確實說不知道會不會開始"},{"start":7002.943,"end":7031.062,"text":"每一個大的變化裡面在推動都非常困難但是我們一定要持之有百工百業把它分類一下大概有幾個行業有那一種模型可以來做然後做出來大家能通用個人的技術個人的know-how他把它輸到裡面就可以去改變了好不好好謝謝謝謝陳昌平委員那就麻煩陳昌平委員幫我代一下主席"},{"start":7040.666,"end":7044.351,"text":"現在我們請教會求職委員員執行謝謝主席 邀請經濟部核市長 國會業主委另外農業組 吳署長委員長"},{"start":7061.533,"end":7077.786,"text":"星期五經濟委會在新達電廠的考察針對電協經的相關制度引起地方上很大的問題會中決議一個月之內提出相關檢討辦法一個月大概就是四月底"},{"start":7078.447,"end":7101.741,"text":"提出來可以嗎?是可以可以讓大家都可以接受到雙贏地方都可以接受然後台電也可以執行然後這個整個制度設計一定要跟地方上多充分說明還跟市政府跟像當地的這些里長可以吧?可以好謝謝那個署長先請回那我先請教這個運動也是一種產業"},{"start":7106.195,"end":7127.395,"text":"像這個你看職棒剛37年剛開幕滿場4萬多人這個在10年前這個大概不會有這種攏景因為這個時候項目得到冠軍然後這個變成一個大家非常去進場去看球是一種修行也是一種活動"},{"start":7128.817,"end":7135.561,"text":"那幾乎每一場都人數都是上萬以上所以怎麼樣去協助國發會跟經濟部啊國發會"},{"start":7138.482,"end":7166.638,"text":"你們有經濟處嘛對不對有產業發展處嘛那這個經濟部的話是哪一個單位針對運動產業你怎麼樣讓運動產業能夠比方說我舉一個例子來說以前日本這個職業足球剛開始的時候人沒有很多他用政策去協助租稅讓這些公司成立這個球團然後行銷啦然後跟國際合作等等"},{"start":7167.919,"end":7183.099,"text":"每一場都4萬人所以怎麼樣讓運動產業能夠有一個發展的一個好的環境我想應該是國發會跟經濟部來同力合作市長你先說一下根本報告今年那個國科會"},{"start":7185.522,"end":7208.831,"text":"他會開一個策略會議就針對這個運動這個產業所以我們會配合這個國發會的整個整理規劃那我們經濟部不管是技術師或是產業發展署未來就是也會找一些相關的產業我們來做一些AI運用的一些推動好 這個部分國發會呢國發會扮演什麼角色"},{"start":7210.692,"end":7218.034,"text":"在運動部裡面它本身就有所謂的產業發展條例那我們也會順著這樣一個產業發展條例我們國發會這邊會提供國發基金那我們也會鼓勵運動部來申請所謂的那個百億基金你們有文化部 有數位部 好像沒有運動部其實我們都一直在鼓勵運動部來申請七大產業的百億計畫裡面沒有這個運動產業"},{"start":7238.038,"end":7263.032,"text":"我們希望他趕快來申請那你要編預算啊,你的預算要...有有有,我們那個其實都有在規劃當中啊現在就是說持續的在跟那個運動部那邊在商討就是說他們怎麼樣把這個計畫送過來這樣子職棒已經站穩腳步了職男也開始有明顯成長現在還有職業排球還有羽球啊這些羽球啊,但是以後有足球"},{"start":7264.437,"end":7288.082,"text":"日本以前那個沒有人去看職業足球的那現在職業足球進場人數比職棒還多那是要有策略去引導國家來協助會會會謝謝那繼續請教一下何市長這個扣建扣建被稱為是工業之謎那扣建目前遇到的困境包括國際市場需求的大崩潰這準備又遲到了"},{"start":7289.602,"end":7317.956,"text":"是在美國市場那加上中國的地價競爭就會陷入平庸化的陷阱還會成本增加勞動力增加勞動力成本增加減碳的壓力等等那要怎麼讓這個台灣的螺絲擴建能夠維持國際的競爭力啊一定要拿出這個好的策略我覺得應該有一個怎麼樣協助擴建產業轉型升級你要有一個政策的白皮書用這個白皮書來做個引導提出具體的解方啦"},{"start":7318.885,"end":7346.116,"text":"比如說你所有的扣件所有的國內公共城所有的國內的這些不要說公家的啦或者是民間的這些需要扣件的都用國產的扣件然後你要怎麼樣用AI高質化的轉型把這個螺絲扣件朝向高質化比如說航太啦AI啦半導體相關的這個螺絲不要停留在這個比較傳統的低階螺絲"},{"start":7349.591,"end":7353.74,"text":"我發現如果用國防相關的螺絲可以得到關稅減免"},{"start":7356.078,"end":7384.837,"text":"是這樣子是沒錯現在我們跟或是太空等等我們跟美方這邊已經也達成一個協議就是說針對汽車零組件的部分已經可以有15%的優惠的稅率那航空零組件的部分這個關稅的稅率也可以豁免就是特殊螺絲你要把政策引導團把這些相關螺絲導向這個關稅可以減免的那些品項是不要大家一窩蜂還是停留在比較低階的螺絲"},{"start":7386.138,"end":7411.923,"text":"是我們現在輔導方向也是這樣另外這個能源的問題那你們像有三個機制比如說你要提前領貨提前領貨然後另外就是說要請這個同業調貨同業調貨同業就是跟日本函股那第三個是市場買現貨這三個你們應用方案目前執行情況怎麼樣"},{"start":7412.769,"end":7433.456,"text":"目前應該都有朝著這樣的一個方向所以包括像我們 朝著方向有沒有具體的做提醒你 提醒你掉貨掉多少貨到五月份的這個天然氣的部分都已經掉足了那六月份已經有七成的這個船隻都已經掉起來半年之內沒有斷氣的危機吧不會不會 一年之內呢"},{"start":7434.356,"end":7457.404,"text":"對 我們一年之內也不會有斷線 你要保證半年之內不會有任何斷線的可能性因為有一個法定存量在 那我們不可能是你這三個因應方案如果確實執行 我還比較有信心我就怕你提出這方案 沒有辦法去執行包括提前調貨 包括你要跟日本 韓國相互支援 這個做得到嗎"},{"start":7458.184,"end":7477.299,"text":"對 我們現在就是都在市場上就是只要有貨我們大概就是不管是現貨或是這個跟同業家我要看出數據跟刺激的好我要看出你們這三大因應方案這一個月來你們執行的狀況怎麼樣你會後再給我一個書面資料好的謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":7500.214,"end":7518.461,"text":"校委請鄭天才委員鄭天才委員質詢之後我們休息五分鐘必要時延長一分鐘主席有請這個經濟部市長還有我們國發會主委"},{"start":7530.941,"end":7557.86,"text":"兩位大家辛苦了今天的議題都非常非常的重要我們召委安排的我們的經濟發展就是長期以來就是要由國發會的前身經建會早期然後就是我們經濟部一直以來"},{"start":7559.328,"end":7585.905,"text":"來去促請行政院院長甚至總統來去推動來去能夠讓你們去執行我們看今天的經濟部的報告裡面第一句話能源供應穩定光復國家安全確實是這樣"},{"start":7587.985,"end":7615.146,"text":"不只是經濟發展還涉及到國家的安全從這段時間的美與伊朗這樣的一個中東的戰爭更能夠體會到我們看這個特別剛提到早期的經濟部長早期的經建會早期的政務委員"},{"start":7616.943,"end":7623.693,"text":"怎麼樣去說服當時的行政院院長甚至總統你看我們合一從1971年開始興建到1978年"},{"start":7630.541,"end":7643.954,"text":"當時很快啊,1978年,現在很慢啊,現在很多問題啊,現在還有很多的程序啊,以前的程序不會那麼冗長啊。1971年開始興建,1978年就開始啟用了。我們合二,1974年。"},{"start":7651.988,"end":7664.133,"text":"都很早,這邊很多年輕的公務員都還沒出生了1974年開始興建河,1981年就開始啟用河山1981年開始興建,1984年就開始啟用所以這樣的,然後這段時間大家一直爭執爭議"},{"start":7679.473,"end":7705.628,"text":"這個賴總統也感謝立法院修正了這個核管法所以要啟動核二核三所以這個都是一個這個國發會跟經濟部共同的要去協調相關的部會協調各個政黨不同的意見然後往這個經濟發展往國家的安全"},{"start":7706.748,"end":7726.658,"text":"來去推動這個是我們共同去回憶過去然後再看看現在然後我們共同的去促成所以這個2月28號中東情勢持續升級就是美以一的戰爭"},{"start":7728.727,"end":7740.362,"text":"現在已經是四月了又一個月了現在四月一號了所以這個什麼時候會停不知道所以這樣的一個我們要有更長遠的"},{"start":7742.345,"end":7766.851,"text":"一個規劃當然你們這段時間也有好的規劃了也有做調整這個我們的油價這些我們的油的來源各方面的來源也做了這一些調整所以這樣一情形之下這個我們看這個汽油柴油"},{"start":7770.27,"end":7795.769,"text":"我们看这个计算的公式指标油价日期70%是这个杜拜30%是这个布兰特这样的一个计算之后有调降为什么有降低那为什么我们的这个"},{"start":7800.942,"end":7814.955,"text":"禮拜一還漲價這個禮拜一啊還漲價禮拜天還去加油啊所以這個部分到底是什麼原因什麼因素那個經濟部的說明嗎"},{"start":7816.429,"end":7832.815,"text":"根文報告這個油價的漲幅他是會根據這個當週啦當週的這個國際油價就是剛剛講的布蘭特原油跟那個杜拜原油的這個油價的一個均值來做調整然後加上匯率"},{"start":7833.815,"end":7851.829,"text":"那當然就是我們一直在強調就是說現在市場上調貨的一些成本我們並沒有把它加入到這樣的一個價格的一個計算裡面來那至於說油價的公式是不是合理這個部分我想我們這個中油這個部分會再來做檢討"},{"start":7853.81,"end":7872.706,"text":"那當然現在整個油價的公式 如同剛剛委員提到的我們油大部分來自於美國所以這個部分的一個公式的換算的部分是不是我們再來做一些研議 做一些調整中油要不要來說明一下"},{"start":7873.987,"end":7897.997,"text":"這個為什麼按照這個公司啊是這個公司是有調價啊那這個我們國內油品價格的調整是按照國際價格的漲幅啊幅度啦那目前以布朗特來講的話已經漲70%那大家可以看到我們國內的零售的價格漲幅是遠低於它的"},{"start":7898.757,"end":7922.498,"text":"所以油品的這個組合的比例事實上是政府跟中油這邊在談吸收部分的多寡所以社會大眾認為說好像我們沒有吸收這麼多其實重點在這裡但是重要的是說我們要讓國內的油品供應無虞這個量要充分供應所以價格方面我們來讓民眾感覺到波動比較少"},{"start":7925.501,"end":7952.027,"text":"那至於說剛剛那個比例我們在過去這20年來那個油價公司也經過了9次的調整就是隨著時事的改變那目前呢我們也在找那個各個研究機構來協助開始要找他們來檢討把過去段時間譬如說運費漲了這麼多但是原來的浮動壓機子沒有考慮運費啊你現在這種情況下河母只能不能動了河海危險一併納入 謝謝"},{"start":7954.587,"end":7972.015,"text":"謝謝你的說明不管怎麼樣這個應該要檢討油價的計算公式這個部分你剛也說了所以經濟部跟中油共同的來去讓我們的當然很重要的"},{"start":7973.186,"end":7994.312,"text":"不漲價當然是最好的就想辦法世界要和平不要有戰爭這是最重要的謝謝政見財委員請關羽先回座現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":8002.195,"end":8003.517,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":8028.456,"end":8029.396,"text":"我可以去那裡嗎?"},{"start":8045.842,"end":8046.643,"text":"不會有邀請"},{"start":8075.902,"end":8078.884,"text":"這個已經是世界幾乎是最棒的"},{"start":8095.489,"end":8103.232,"text":"我覺得今天就是目前看起來就是就是台塑跟獨家公司兩個開心其他就是其他都沒有聊"},{"start":8111.138,"end":8135.434,"text":"有没有看我写的?有啊我看完之后我称赞了你啊我要说出来事实吗?因为前几天我只有看标题然后他就跟我讲说是不是那天回忆你看不懂那是什么?不是是我刚刚找"},{"start":8302.874,"end":8317.457,"text":"來,列席官員請就座來,列席官員請就座好,我們繼續開會這個列席官員請就座"},{"start":8332.881,"end":8356.629,"text":"好 我們繼續開會蕭子昀 廖先祥 廖先祥 廖先祥不在林黛華 林黛華 林黛華不在林楚昀 林楚昀 林楚昀不在洪孟凱 洪孟凱 洪孟凱不在李坤臣 李坤臣 李坤臣不在葉仁芝 葉仁芝 葉仁芝不在何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳不在吳詩瑤 吳詩瑤 吳詩瑤不在陳定飛 陳定飛 陳定飛不在"},{"start":8359.91,"end":8377.386,"text":"陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷不在 蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇燕不在張家俊張家俊張家俊不在 林健齊林健齊林健齊不在徐欣吟徐欣吟不在議會跳過了 剩下講三分鐘好"},{"start":8383.627,"end":8408.438,"text":"蘇星泉 蘇星泉不在 張家俊 張俊不在 林倩琦 林靜怡不在 徐欣怡 徐欣怡不在兩位委員會議都按照時間進行 這已經跳過了但你們來了還是會讓你們講一下"},{"start":8412.316,"end":8415.438,"text":"好那我就開始還是要再討論一下程序什麼狀況"},{"start":8441.856,"end":8468.969,"text":"因為剛剛有休息休息之後你們沒有人來嘛那誰人到我家繼續開會啊那沒有人來我當然繼續面下去啦休息就是到上休息我們從辦公室過來啊沒有啦我已經因為現場沒有人我才宣布休息嘛休息完之後你們還是沒有人來嘛那我也要繼續進行啊OK 我要我是說剛剛是你是到誰哪一個委員先到前面然後結果把我們跳掉沒有人先到前面因為"},{"start":8469.75,"end":8497.372,"text":"下一位就是休息完是這個正天才之後休息嘛那下一位是廖仙祥嘛那休息之後我繼續開會沒有人來我當然就繼續喊下去啦我想說仙祥代話沒有啦 你要尊是要替誰來一個喔三位啊沒有啦 我主席回就是要講白啦沒關係 這樣啊沒有啦 這樣啊我們再補充一下好不好你既然來了就交你這裡啦"},{"start":8498.53,"end":8514.622,"text":"那代化也來了然後這個紅碼也來了就是不是就三分鐘三分鐘三分鐘好請掉進來委員資訊好謝謝主席麻煩請我們這個何政次經濟部陳副市長還有王總經理那個台電王王總"},{"start":8518.643,"end":8534.774,"text":"好 委員好 老師好 這個能源大漲嘛 那這幾天有一個新聞啦 就是我們的中油針對這個天然氣的一個售價有調漲尤其是針對電力用戶的價格有調漲 想確認一下也包含台電公司嗎"},{"start":8536.252,"end":8553.886,"text":"有有有包含嘛對不對那我想確認一下那我們台電公司有沒有算過就是說台電已經公布調漲的比例了嘛對不對那未來對我們台電的成本的影響是多少那有沒有可能會產生民眾要感謝台電公司的一個機會可以麻煩說明一下"},{"start":8556.631,"end":8581.54,"text":"報告委員那這次的調漲是從12.6067毫米一立方公尺調升到17.8485一立方公尺所以我們這樣算一算大概一年會增加900多億一年增加如果要按照這樣的價格會增加900多億的這個成本是是是那你們現在有再評估過這個電價的調整了嗎"},{"start":8585.469,"end":8599.759,"text":"應該這樣說啦就是說這個戰爭的期間會多久還有條幅多少都是這兩個變數嘛那我們算短期嘛短期跟長期嘛如果是短期的話如果是短期的話那就是一年100億一個月100億啦一個月100億那短期再一個月100億"},{"start":8603.041,"end":8628.459,"text":"那台電因為去年還有729億稅後盈餘的這個部分所以在因應上還有一點疑慮的空間那自己說如果是真的長期那就還要再另外再思考所以我們等於是邊走邊看所以短期內我們就是台電這邊釋放的訊息就是雖然說我們天然氣的成本有提升大概一個月增加100億的一個成本但是因為我們台電去年有盈餘"},{"start":8629.139,"end":8651.97,"text":"所以說今年到目前為止還沒因為戰爭延續多久還不知道短期間內我們台電會先吸收成本還暫時先不會這個反映到我們中端的電價無論是民生或者是工業是這樣子嗎這部分是根據3月底的電價審議委員會的決議是這個樣子的3月底是這樣子那下一次開會大概是哪時候就9月底"},{"start":8652.41,"end":8667.647,"text":"所以說我們目前我們大概所有的這個用電戶可以大概放心大概在9月台電的電價審議委會之前無論天然氣的價格如何的變化我們民生或者是工業的電價原則上不會有調整機會還是有開庭時會的可能嗎"},{"start":8670.569,"end":8696.088,"text":"上一 三月底開的那個電價審議委員會並沒有提到中間要開臨時委員會確定嗎 到9月9月9月之前不會開臨時委員會目前的決議是這樣子那如果說會開的話會有會有怎樣的情況可能會觸發我要幫大家擔心一下這個部分事事多變經濟部交代還是說有上層交代我們就會再開還是說決議了3月決議不會開就是9月再開"},{"start":8698.735,"end":8721.694,"text":"因為要看這個戰事拖延多久所以還是有可能開啦 只是說我們現在台電目前是沒有啦目前是沒有 目前狀況是不會再開好 那以上了解 謝謝謝謝好 謝謝梁院長委員 關於請先回座下一位請林太二委員有請次長經濟部何次長"},{"start":8729.22,"end":8745.079,"text":"市長在我正式執行之前我先要對您所督導的一個業務我表達我的不滿就是有關特定工廠的部分在部長製作業務報告的時候我也提出質詢所以我這邊希望你們允諾能夠從現在開始"},{"start":8747.142,"end":8771.77,"text":"到119年3月以前能夠啟動所謂的忠誠計畫我列為忠誠是因為從我們法108年通過之後到現在已經執行6年了成效如何XXX 三個字今天在700家的在已經拿到特登的部分進入到土地變更有7000家 幾千家提出申請700家 幾家通過 7家"},{"start":8776.651,"end":8785.276,"text":"哇 777 真好 差勁啊然後再來你包括你列管的表面上叫做四萬家還在納管輔導的幾家通過 千家"},{"start":8789.707,"end":8807.478,"text":"差所以這樣的績效表示你的法的一個理想性跟你實質落實是不夠的嘛所以次長我知道你很認真那也事實上也希望能把這件事做好那所以我在這邊就請你提出一個忠誠計畫可以嗎"},{"start":8810.082,"end":8831.263,"text":"這個我們來研議啦你們研議那這裡面當然包括有一些這個我關心的一些這個案件我等一下我就公文給你那再來呢就是針對水利署的部分雖然不是你督導但是我認為無自來水地區裡面的偏鄉我認為太"},{"start":8833.405,"end":8851.593,"text":"的標準對人民太不利了我認為越偏鄉你政府負擔的部分應該要越多 人民應該越少那比如說我現在關心的六龜區寶萊里的蘇羅婆地區它是在寶萊裡面 寶萊裡面更進去了"},{"start":8853.555,"end":8867.593,"text":"裡面有園民區那園民區你知道多棒嗎他的無自來水可以政府補助他一戶到100萬我的這種漢人同樣那塊地我補助最高80萬我排進去還不一定排得到"},{"start":8868.374,"end":8894.966,"text":"排進去還要多少大概一戶三四十萬的那樣的評比才可以排進去耶那偏鄉永遠弱勢嘛我五自來對於永遠都是用捲一自來水捲一自來水就是髒水啦我老實講啦所以這部分針對這兩個議題我就是請您關心好針對這個9300萬家的製造業我在這邊要替他們發聲我特別指的是製造業他們在政府的政策之下"},{"start":8895.926,"end":8901.729,"text":"到底是轉型的孤兒還是說你們現在的政策是救命服務還是稻草呢好我這邊講他們的辛苦在哪裡九萬三千家的製造業正面對中美對等關係5%的懸崖你們的我就舉這個例子產業升級創新平台條例你看右邊的數字多慘你們合併的你們有兩這個從111年的60件合併的"},{"start":8925.498,"end":8949.634,"text":"到113年 3年後 7件再更慘 114年 這個去年 核定38件31件 核定在這邊38件 你到目前為止2025年的4月 我這邊是2月的資料 7件到底9萬多家的這樣的製造業在等救命前 你們一年只救31家 38家"},{"start":8951.095,"end":8974.825,"text":"那包括這樣的杯水車經根本沒有辦法讓基層製造業自生自滅好我簡單講你們的方案有兩個壟斷第一個縱北侵南 你看你的TIIP創新條例北部這五年來你核定幾家 119家南部幾家 35家這叫做你們支持中小企業 支持中南部 支持製造業嗎"},{"start":8976.306,"end":8979.888,"text":"光是TIIP這樣的創新比賽我的南部只有你北部的29%好這兩個壟斷第一個右邊這個圖這個廠商都是你們提供的除了南北的壟斷北部的壟斷以及獨厚大企業前20家一看合作鴻海偽創獨拿了3000萬到6000萬"},{"start":8999.361,"end":9014.327,"text":"但是對於我中南部尤其是大康電機 包括我南高雄只要廠商需要的AI良率的提升降低成本 降低人力你們到底支持了什麼把補助放在30萬的直通訊產業那400萬人的傳統製造業又如何呢我這邊具體要求四項第一個建立南部專項的保障"},{"start":9021.469,"end":9049.08,"text":"第二個建立基礎製造業的智慧化的核電列別第三個落實大廠帶動供應鏈第四個一個月能夠提供報告從現在開始115年的所有的南部的計畫40%以上要用在南部製造業專屬的配額第二個製造業只要涉及降低成本降低人力提高良率這三個訴求一律就是合法"},{"start":9050.1,"end":9074.43,"text":"核准下去而且呢在這個程序上的簡化讓中小企業的製造業核定的建樹增加並得到相對主額的補助大廠帶動這個小廠那再來呢在這邊我要呼籲數位製造結合AI才是競爭力數位升級不是生存錢是生存錢不是奢侈品那個次長回應一下吧"},{"start":9076.67,"end":9094.377,"text":"我們會跟委員做一個說明那其實我們在460億的那個特別預算裡面其實在南部的這個輔導的比例是有提升的那剛剛委員提到那個產算平台那個部分是因為我們現在把預算用在特別的一些主題式的"},{"start":9095.017,"end":9109.939,"text":"的這個研發補助所以剛剛委員看到數字下降所以那個主題我們南部都不需要沒有那個比方說有一些可能是因為無人機啦或是這些都是南部可能比較擅長的這種產業區的好我們再把書面剪到這邊吧重視中南部重視製造業吧謝謝"},{"start":9111.857,"end":9133.215,"text":"好 謝謝林大會委員 歡迎先回座主席這邊再講一下 因為剛剛已經跳過了所以因為委員你們都趕來 我都尊重但時間只有三分鐘 大家把握一下時間那葉元智是最後一個葉元智是最後一個了下一位諮詢請彭文凱"},{"start":9142.605,"end":9165.937,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請次長來 次長直接請教 因為我剛剛交通委員會一樣問就是中東的戰事的部分 那現在機票今天已經確定要調漲國際航空長城機票大漲2300元但現在不是機票漲的問題 而是油夠不夠用的問題"},{"start":9166.957,"end":9192.73,"text":"交通部剛剛講是說因為油的庫存等等相關還是在經濟部這邊可以掌握最實際的狀況可是現在面臨到一個部分是其他國家的航空公司來到台灣其他國家要求我國國籍的航空公司飛到他們那邊不加油就是我們要自己載油去飛啊飛來回啊那就變成是其他國家已經有在控管油了那我們到目前為止有沒有這樣的一個計畫或者是說預估來 請說明"},{"start":9195.644,"end":9216.185,"text":"我們那個原油石油的法定存量是90天那我們現在存量是到150天所以目前因應中東這個情勢我們當然中東那邊的油源可能就會減少所以目前我們的這個中油的部分已經在美國澳洲還有西非巴西這個部分調度油"},{"start":9216.966,"end":9244.986,"text":"道度游遠所以這個部分我們調度我知道都要努力嘛但我現在講說其他國家東南亞尤其東南亞東北亞國家已經有這樣的一個措施了那我們過去這幾一個月的時間從二二八到現在四月一號我們中油補貼了多少錢我們不是講是說漲價的部分我們都補貼嘛那上最新一次更新是六十幾億嘛那到今天一個月了我們航空產油是沒有我現在不會講航空產油我講全國的油"},{"start":9247.654,"end":9272.065,"text":"我們已經吸收了大概將近70億了70億啊 對嘛所以現在本席看到問題就是說當其他世界各國有這樣做的做法中東戰事到底會什麼時候結束 您知道嗎其實我們很難預估啦很難預估嘛 就是會很難預估也因此你現在講即便我們講說安全庫存90天或是說我們跨胸部保證現在150天那150天或90天內中東戰事有可能結束嗎"},{"start":9275.208,"end":9302.995,"text":"其實我們都一直持續在調度所以本席現在才講的重點在於是我們要超前部署防範未來我們都有所以我現在看到其他國家有這樣的一個做法我剛剛跟交通部長陳士凱也講是說要跟經濟部開會兩個禮拜內訂出標準看是我們到什麼時間譬如說我簡單講假設我們安全庫存量只剩50天的時候是不是要開始控管"},{"start":9303.675,"end":9330.413,"text":"就是說那其他飛機來台灣那我們先以我們國籍航空加油為主還是用什麼樣的步驟先把這個遊戲規則定出來而不會造成國內或是國際上面的大家的一個恐慌那也可以這個說一解十嘛是不是這樣子是 跟我們報告其實中東戰事大概已經持續三四個禮拜了一個 將近一個月就一個月嘛對 其實我們的這個油的庫存都沒有減少"},{"start":9331.834,"end":9332.475,"text":"庫存沒有減少?"},{"start":9332.475,"end":9356.885,"text":"都沒有減少就是維持一百就是一百五十天的這樣的一個存量所以表示說我們其實整個有源的調度其實都有陸陸續續一直補充進來所以目前來講我們在調度原有的部分其實是沒有太大問題但你認為是說這樣的調度的狀況可以維持多久?因為我現在國際上其他國家都沒有那我覺得是其他國家來我們台灣來取經"},{"start":9359.423,"end":9380.013,"text":"國際有這樣整席點出一個國際的狀況所以說我才想是說我們預先部署超前衛來那還有韓國他們現在甚至有國內要求公務員不要開車上班或是分流開車上班就是避免韓國國內的油都已經有在做緊縮了那我們有沒有這樣的一個規劃跟打算"},{"start":9380.974,"end":9398.553,"text":"即便你現在講說沒有預留但是是不是能夠先來做規劃本期講是說我們最好不要用到但是你的Plan B Plan C一定要有我們都有其實我們就有三套劇本一個就是這個市場調現貨然後同業調貨市場買現貨同業調貨然後"},{"start":9403.038,"end":9420.079,"text":"當你調不到貨或是買不到現貨的時候你就不用再講這些所以我本席才會講的是說你現在應該因應的是如果有一天有可能調不到貨或買不到現貨的時候要有什麼樣的方案預先做準備公告給國人讓國人比較有個心理預期準備"},{"start":9421.48,"end":9439.811,"text":"剛剛交通部長講是說會找經濟部開會兩個禮拜內提出相關的辦法可以做到嗎是可以主動也跟交通部這邊聯繫兩個禮拜後給本席跟經濟委員會的委員讓國人比較有個清楚明白的方向這樣可以嗎可以可以好 謝謝謝謝委員哇 你跳過時間還比我發言時間還長好 謝謝"},{"start":9445.393,"end":9463.312,"text":"來 下面請李昆城委員剛剛那個三大方案那個三大因應方案要把過去一個月執行的狀況以及未來三個月的執行的目標可能提一個書面資料好 請李昆城委員好 謝謝主席那我們就請何市長請進步 何市長"},{"start":9469.667,"end":9489.518,"text":"市長好 請教一下 這個我們現在 我前兩天去買那一個紅豆餅那紅豆餅他本來都會附一個小的塑膠袋給我那現在他已經沒有一個塑膠袋給我 還有我就自己用這個紙包裝拿著 也OK啦但是我就是要問這個市長 我們現在塑膠袋到底有沒有缺貨的問題"},{"start":9490.538,"end":9507.81,"text":"其實塑膠袋的這個生產的部分其實應該是不會有斷料 短缺的部分原料沒有短缺的問題對 尤其這個像這個最上有的這個乙烯的部分其實中油今天已經增加這個釋清的這個產能那賣場到現在去賣場買這個塑膠袋一定都買得到嗎"},{"start":9514.614,"end":9529.069,"text":"是 我們當然就是說希望能夠讓每一個賣場都能夠有充足的塑膠袋的供應但是我們也呼籲民眾就是不要搶購或是囤積因為這個讓整個市場的機制會錯了那民眾為什麼會有搶購或囤積還是怕說 第一個會漲價第二個他可能會買不到"},{"start":9534.977,"end":9560.043,"text":"可能都是那源頭就在於說如果我們這個供應量充足的話是不是就沒有這些問題對所以我們就是說盡量就是那我們現在的供應量夠不夠能不能化解民眾這個囤積搶購單機漲價的問題跟我們報告我們已經跟這個20家的跟塑膠袋衣材包材的這些生產廠商已經都已經有做一些了解然後"},{"start":9560.883,"end":9573.951,"text":"他們也強調就是說就是配合國內的這個供應的這個生產那他們來做一些市長能夠保證就是我們如果去我今天去賣場買塑膠袋一定都買得到嗎"},{"start":9575.915,"end":9603.096,"text":"當然這個就會有很多的狀況這狀況就如同我當然不是說就一般的這個大賣場的話我們希望他就充足供應我們每天也都有在做一些調查那目前的供應是大賣場的供應是OK的不要像之前有所謂的這一個大家囤積衛生紙這個衛生紙這麼大包也去囤積希望這個因為上次蘇院長就去查所以就是二者這個囤積這個衛生紙"},{"start":9605.017,"end":9620.189,"text":"這次的垃圾那個塑膠袋不要演變成過去大家囤積的那個位置是怎樣好不好是 我們經濟部也在呼籲也不是只有呼籲啊呼籲 而且也希望說大家能夠來配合要去查我們這樣 這個昨天法務部已經也啟動這個稽查的這個動作了"},{"start":9623.311,"end":9648.82,"text":"好 那就請教一下 我們現在這個液化天然氣你說到六月都沒有問題嘛是不是對這有確定嗎目前六月還差一點點啦不過我想應該沒問題我們的現在安全存量還是在12天嗎對 現在法定是11天法規11天 所以我們是有超過這樣的一個那才多一天啊 12天啊那這個 這個安全的期限能夠再延長嗎能夠再增加嗎"},{"start":9649.62,"end":9676.548,"text":"那我們是希望除潮能夠增加因為明年法定存量就14天所以就是一定要達到這樣的一個所以那個除潮 我們那個除潮除潮夠嗎目前是應該就是在有些戰線之中應該是夠的啦最後一個問題 我請教一下就是說我們現在主要是天然氣從卡達澳洲過來嘛 對不對那美國部分有增加嗎還是有增加 美國 澳洲"},{"start":9677.368,"end":9703.931,"text":"這個部分那現在大概比例是多少本來是大概10%現在這樣兩成五左右就美國的部分就對了未來會再增加會再增加在三成以上因為這個液化天然氣很重要因為我們現在的這個發電大部分是用這一個產生液化天然氣你如果沒有充足的這個液化天然氣的話我也很擔心電價會跟著漲不然你就變成燃煤要增加了這個就是未來這個經濟部要注意的部分好 了解謝謝謝謝李坤政府員"},{"start":9706.053,"end":9722.888,"text":"那些跳過的比還沒跳過的講了還久啊來 介關先回座 下一個質疑請預言之三分鐘冠廷你剩下兩分鐘了來 麻煩請次長提出報告 次長"},{"start":9731.286,"end":9755.756,"text":"我上次有問部長就是說因為我們現在是天然氣是在現貨市場去搶大概比原來貴多少他說大概一船是貴11億如果20幾艘的話大概就已經中游大概多虧了200多億都多付出200多億那現在有最新的數據嗎可能有沒有這個張總就是不斷在搶嘛那預計大概要搶幾艘"},{"start":9757.492,"end":9776.054,"text":"呃 就每個月的船期都排好的嘛對那因應這個要經過荷姆斯海峽的船的話呢我們目前就去找替代了所以那個數量都是一定的多少嗎因為我們那個主席控制我們時間控制很緊你可不可以針對問題回答好對 之前是說二十幾艘啦那 那還要再增加嗎"},{"start":9777.109,"end":9802.707,"text":"差不多到6月底就是這個數字到6月底就是這個數字但是如果說暫時拖長的話比如說7月8月的話很可能就繼續延續下去就不只不只多增加200多億可能300多億400多億都可能嘛那上次我問那個部長說那怎麼辦中油怎麼辦那現在他的解決方案是說中油要提出增資計畫那我退回去看一下中油的增資計畫有一個背景是因為中油的負債比很高啦大概92%然後累虧大概800多億"},{"start":9805.448,"end":9818.454,"text":"然後每一年的利息就孵了非常多但是很奇怪的是因為之前中油類似的狀況也有跟經濟部提出政治計畫但是都被打回票打回票的理由是說中油都還有盈餘849億"},{"start":9820.515,"end":9848.415,"text":"那我就不懂啊為什麼之前增資被打回票理由有盈餘現在又忽然間說增資很重要原因是什麼跟委員報告那個是禁止不是盈餘啦是禁止因為畢竟就是說他的這個就是負債比拉高因為經濟部最近才打回票現在忽然間又要大家去支持他增資計畫中間的轉折是什麼"},{"start":9850.515,"end":9878.248,"text":"因為最主要是這一次的這個中東的戰事是因為中東的戰事喔中東的戰事讓他的就是美軍吸收的成本會增加所以主要是中東戰事所以才忽然間經濟部改變立場要去支持他的增資計畫那剛剛講到就是因為中東戰事的關係所以多付出的成本是大概兩百多億嘛兩百多億那我想問那為什麼他增資計畫是三千五百億"},{"start":9879.967,"end":9901.619,"text":"為什麼你如果說是要打消他的累虧800多億再加上現在可能增加了兩三百億那就1000億啊那為什麼中油要增資3500億理由是什麼根文報告齁其實剛委員估算的只是氣的部分氣油的部分還沒有加進來所以油是多少油大概預計會多付出多少成本"},{"start":9902.779,"end":9917.692,"text":"預計大概65億美金65億美金是因為中東戰事的關係所以加起來你覺得是3500億所以3500億就不含別的就純粹是因為中東戰事所衍生出來的成本增加就3500億"},{"start":9921.294,"end":9943.702,"text":"這麼多三千五百億是中友提出的是四年三千五百億那我們會評估到底這三千五百億有沒有需要所以我們現在目前報到行政院的沒有這麼多因為你們現在那時候部長就講說已經提了三千五百億報到行政院是一千一千多億一千七百億一千七百億而已是不是再我問一下再一分鐘就好"},{"start":9943.942,"end":9965.898,"text":"沒有沒有 剛剛大家都可以喔 一個小問題就好一個小問題就是因為大家現在在質疑說中油他油價公式啊以前是七成杜拜三成布蘭特油嘛但是現在其實我們購買的比例美國油是比較多大概六成中東降到四成以下那之前大家在問啊中油是說這公司有否有訂的去問經濟部啊經濟部現在立場怎麼樣"},{"start":9967.279,"end":9986.314,"text":"中友目前也委託一些經濟部的立場給他回答一下經濟部的立場你們希望他能夠調整嗎我們會來做一個檢討什麼時候檢討因為隨時他每一週都在動你不能夠拖到六年馬月區什麼時候會有一個公式公式的調整方案什麼時候"},{"start":9986.914,"end":10013.586,"text":"可能 至少半年啦 半年左右要半年 那這半年這半年的 大家中油多調的部分咧為什麼要半年 因為你每週都在調油價嘛那公司竟然發現有問題 為什麼不立刻調因為這個可能要做一個更深入的一些沒有 我覺得這樣可能大家不太能夠接受啦大家可能不太能接受中油很多的一些成本沒有加進那這可能兩回事嘛 你現在他已經提政治計畫了嘛這一碼歸一碼嘛不要全部的事情都混在一起了謝謝 謝謝好來"},{"start":10022.48,"end":10041.057,"text":"這個因為我當主席啊因為本委員會我都很準時五加一啊但是跳過了還比本席講還久這個這個以後齒力不可開啊以後類似狀況大家要來知情委員會請大家注意時間跳過沒有再回頭了"},{"start":10042.279,"end":10046.501,"text":"現在聽起來是3、4、5月都已經鞏固了6月還在掉那我們現在就不進入細節我就想請教一下那我們現在怎麼樣分散這樣子的風險"},{"start":10071.795,"end":10097.056,"text":"澳洲、美國有沒有開始在講未來如果同樣發生類似這樣子挑戰的時候我們該怎麼做我們現在終於有幾個策略就是市場買現貨然後同業調貨然後就提前取貨那這三個策略我們是交叉在運用當中所以目前來講油原的那個氣體的部分其實我們就從澳洲、美國"},{"start":10098.297,"end":10121.173,"text":"還有一些其他的一些這個非洲的一些國家巴布亞新幾內亞等等這些國家來做調度所以未來我們也會檢討是不是中東的這個氣源的這個比例我們希望能夠降低避免又造成這些戰事這個調度的一些風險市長我們現在這個占比大概多少在中東的"},{"start":10122.199,"end":10137.03,"text":"中東大概三層左右大概三層,所以七層的話以哪一個地方為主?澳洲嗎?我看我們跟澳洲的澳洲三層,美國兩層,三三二,然後其他的地方就是七雲八部,新幾內亞等等之類的我是這樣具體建議,因為我們分血風單看起來中東這樣子的狀況它已經會是長期的風險了"},{"start":10144.355,"end":10170.067,"text":"那長期的風險的話儘管說我們現在要確保的是穩定的供貨也就是說我們不僅僅是說要把這個價格降低我們現在可能要追求的不是降低價格而是穩定確保我們有這樣的天然氣 氣一定要足因為我們接下來所有的你說AI的發展等等的每一項都需要能源那我們與其擔心說這個哪一個價格是最便宜的可能現在要想的是風險喔風險可能要優先於價格"},{"start":10172.088,"end":10194.77,"text":"因為剛才你聽到了332這樣子的這種大概八成左右其中的三成是在中東三成是在澳洲兩成在美國我可能這個調配速度要把它往上再往上走一點美國的部分跟澳洲的部分都要往上走一點然後確保說地緣政治風險的地方我們把它拿掉這個是我覺得是必須講的那謝謝主席那我想今天就答應兩分鐘就兩分鐘好 謝謝"},{"start":10198.038,"end":10202.824,"text":"哎呀 冠廷真是楷模啊謝謝 謝謝這個還有沒有要發言的 沒有了喔"},{"start":10211.994,"end":10234.709,"text":"登議發言委員除不在場之外 期許經營發言完畢 我們訓導結束有委員蔡宇宇 陳金飛 許新穎所提書面諮詢我們列入記錄 刊登公報書面諮詢和未及答覆部分請相關到一週之內以書面答覆並佈置本會委員另要求期限者從期所定本日所定一程處理完畢謝謝大家 大家辛苦了 現在散會"},{"start":10239.978,"end":10251.073,"text":"注意那個七大產業是不是加一個運動產業就是七大你現在有七大嘛對不對七大對七大我們都持續在跟運動部他們都動作不是我們不積極"},{"start":10302.338,"end":10302.419,"text":"谢谢大家"}]}},{"id":"168168","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168168","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cb94221f8435d86457570c8d4d2e9dc7870bdfb2511f2cb5c7c45cb4d80bcee6c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"12:56:34 - 13:16:46","影片長度":"00:20:12","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:56:34+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:16:46+08:00","duration":1212,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.117843750000002,"end":13.395968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.699718750000002,"end":14.037218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.037218750000001,"end":14.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.57721875,"end":14.594093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.09971875,"end":19.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.28096875,"end":21.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.664718750000002,"end":24.567218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31.48596875,"end":35.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.721593750000004,"end":38.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.619718750000004,"end":42.353468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":42.72471875,"end":48.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.59284375,"end":51.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.220968750000004,"end":59.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.28721875,"end":62.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":62.789093750000006,"end":63.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.61596875,"end":66.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.15971875000001,"end":68.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.09159375,"end":74.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":72.57659375,"end":73.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.19659375,"end":75.63096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.62659375,"end":79.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.45284375,"end":91.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.15159375,"end":99.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.24721875,"end":102.42846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.49596875,"end":107.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.04784375000001,"end":111.40596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":111.47346875000001,"end":115.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.50659375000001,"end":132.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.97221875,"end":150.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":150.40409375000002,"end":150.74159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.34909375,"end":196.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.81034375000002,"end":203.13846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":203.64471875,"end":221.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.15659375,"end":223.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.89471875,"end":234.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.16471875000002,"end":224.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.75534375,"end":225.73409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.94034375,"end":229.29471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":233.15909375,"end":238.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":239.23409375000003,"end":244.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":244.80284375000002,"end":257.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.86409375,"end":260.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.34471875,"end":262.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.89284375,"end":263.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.12471875,"end":265.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":265.64346875,"end":286.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.72034375000004,"end":288.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":288.59346875,"end":292.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.45346875,"end":294.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.71909375,"end":299.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":300.00096875,"end":312.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.62346875000003,"end":313.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.66971875,"end":315.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.84659375,"end":324.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":324.85784375000003,"end":331.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":331.77659375,"end":334.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.45534375,"end":345.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.64784375000005,"end":346.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.96409375,"end":347.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":347.95971875000004,"end":348.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":349.19159375000004,"end":350.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":351.09846875,"end":353.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":356.22846875000005,"end":369.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":370.15034375000005,"end":409.06409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":409.18221875,"end":410.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":411.02159375,"end":413.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.95784375000005,"end":419.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.74596875000003,"end":442.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.89409375,"end":444.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":444.61971875,"end":446.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":447.57284375,"end":449.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.61471875,"end":452.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":452.38221875000005,"end":456.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.28034375000004,"end":457.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.90034375000005,"end":461.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.95096875,"end":458.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.18284375,"end":459.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.10659375,"end":462.86159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":462.91221875,"end":466.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":466.96221875000003,"end":471.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":472.46346875,"end":474.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":474.47159375,"end":491.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.02596875,"end":495.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":495.51471875000004,"end":495.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":496.56096875000003,"end":500.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":500.76284375000006,"end":535.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":536.1159687500001,"end":542.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":542.2922187500001,"end":554.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":555.45471875,"end":584.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.8172187499999,"end":623.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":616.1203437500001,"end":617.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":618.21284375,"end":619.4109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":621.11534375,"end":634.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":634.46346875,"end":635.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":636.3703437500001,"end":639.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":639.69471875,"end":641.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.84221875,"end":654.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":641.8715937500001,"end":641.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.8484687499999,"end":664.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":664.33221875,"end":668.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.7534687500001,"end":672.2803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":672.76971875,"end":673.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":674.01846875,"end":676.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":677.3090937500001,"end":682.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.9115937500001,"end":701.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":704.12346875,"end":705.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.7140937500001,"end":708.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":708.8147187500001,"end":723.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":723.37784375,"end":724.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.50846875,"end":734.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":733.6884687500001,"end":735.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":735.86534375,"end":737.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":736.84409375,"end":738.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":739.15596875,"end":776.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":776.68596875,"end":787.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":788.2453437500001,"end":797.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":797.64471875,"end":799.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":799.9734687500002,"end":803.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":803.8547187500001,"end":822.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":822.7209687500001,"end":827.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":828.4753437500001,"end":842.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":849.2990937500001,"end":850.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":862.9509687500001,"end":863.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":864.3347187500001,"end":868.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":869.2959687500002,"end":877.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":877.1428437500001,"end":890.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":891.85784375,"end":893.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":893.37659375,"end":894.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":894.25409375,"end":895.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":895.8403437500001,"end":897.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":897.6965937500001,"end":921.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":922.04721875,"end":926.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":926.7553437500001,"end":927.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":927.9028437500001,"end":930.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":930.65346875,"end":931.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":931.0078437500001,"end":938.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":934.2309687500001,"end":935.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":935.9015937500001,"end":937.8928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":939.64784375,"end":945.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":945.7397187500001,"end":948.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":948.81096875,"end":949.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":950.48159375,"end":956.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":958.4634687500002,"end":965.0109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":959.32409375,"end":961.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":965.11221875,"end":972.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":972.5034687500001,"end":973.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":973.5834687500001,"end":979.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":979.9453437500001,"end":985.0415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":985.3115937500002,"end":989.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":990.6609687500002,"end":992.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":991.9097187500001,"end":994.3228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":992.5847187500001,"end":1012.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":994.79534375,"end":995.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1013.1215937500001,"end":1016.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1017.17159375,"end":1018.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1018.7578437500001,"end":1019.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1021.0190937500001,"end":1022.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1023.3647187500001,"end":1024.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1024.9678437500002,"end":1026.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1028.0559687500001,"end":1031.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1031.7009687500001,"end":1032.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1034.08034375,"end":1034.4009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1035.73409375,"end":1038.7547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1039.0753437500002,"end":1043.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1039.1765937500002,"end":1039.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1039.51409375,"end":1039.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1039.54784375,"end":1039.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1043.2940937500002,"end":1046.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1046.5340937500002,"end":1051.4109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1050.34784375,"end":1055.4778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1056.8953437500002,"end":1071.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1061.7890937500001,"end":1065.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1072.1165937500002,"end":1097.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1097.91846875,"end":1101.6478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1102.4409687500001,"end":1104.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1105.5459687500002,"end":1109.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1110.1697187500001,"end":1111.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1111.82346875,"end":1113.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1113.9665937500001,"end":1127.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1127.31471875,"end":1129.1709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1129.39034375,"end":1133.2547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1133.89596875,"end":1134.2840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1134.85784375,"end":1135.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1135.87034375,"end":1137.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1137.67596875,"end":1138.4690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1137.82784375,"end":1144.7972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1145.15159375,"end":1146.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1147.5984687500002,"end":1161.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1162.4990937500002,"end":1163.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1163.6465937500002,"end":1174.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1174.69971875,"end":1182.6309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1182.81659375,"end":1192.0640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1192.7897187500002,"end":1199.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1200.3497187500002,"end":1203.0328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1203.37034375,"end":1205.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1205.17596875,"end":1208.9559687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1209.1922187500002,"end":1209.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1209.58034375,"end":1210.1709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1211.36909375,"end":1212.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1212.78659375,"end":1213.5459687500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.135,"end":37.361,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩請一下洪部長好 請洪部長請問好部長好 首先想要先跟您請教一下答案都跟你說了 跟你看了但是我想問的是原住民的職在千人綠"},{"start":39.653,"end":58.398,"text":"你給他看沒關係啊,那也不是今年的吧我要問你今年的114年原住民的職災遷人率是多少?跟委員報告,我們現在正在統計中那初步的資料是職災遷人率是3.267那全產業的職災遷人率又是多少?"},{"start":71.141,"end":99.436,"text":"我們可能要再查一下數據我幫你查好這2點你們也還沒公布我就不要聽你們公布了對因為113年我這邊簡報上面是前年的那去年的我們目前還沒有看到那這目前你們還沒公布那這個兩者的相差他有一些差距那部長你怎麼看待這個差距有什麼特別的意義嗎"},{"start":101.594,"end":119.463,"text":"的確原住民族他在很多他的就業跟職業上面可能是比較會是高風險的職場的確我們也看到這個狀況第一個來部長我跟你說一下我換算給你看那每年大約有上萬件的這個職災發生以114年來看總共有25371件意思是說呢在這個兩萬大概"},{"start":129.648,"end":150.467,"text":"大概25000件的植栽里面呢比例换算一下从这个刚刚植栽千人率这样换算起来我们大概原住民的部分有占了15000人那其他族群的部分加起来大约有1万人左右这个比例是这样看起来是很可怕的那"},{"start":152.048,"end":179.21,"text":"原住民的這個職災宣導跟統計我們在過去在這個研究所就是我們前所長何俊傑的帶領之下他有特別建置了這個專屬的網站可以利用那這個網站在過去定期會分析原住民的這個職災的特性那這也顯示勞動部對於原住民高發生率的職災是有所重視的"},{"start":180.071,"end":202.734,"text":"那只是說在他離開之後那我們最近想要再查詢這個網站那我特別上網去看你們在這個網頁3月30號的時候有更新這個要給你們拍拍手但是我很認真的再去看一下裡面的內容卻停留在"},{"start":203.795,"end":222.864,"text":"去年也就是去年114年2月17日裡面的內容是完全沒有更新了所以本席會合理的懷疑所以我們是不是因為今天有這個專報然後你們要來備詢所以我趕快做個假動作那個網頁給他更新一下而且只有一人瀏覽那一人就是我們啊"},{"start":224.068,"end":241.654,"text":"不是 他主要是他的資料的時間出來因為他可能涉及到勞保的資料然後我們還要跟內政部所以我們今年其實應該在三月中的時候重點是因為網頁今天三月三十要有更新而且這已經就是有過了一年多了這有一年多的差距"},{"start":242.554,"end":260.866,"text":"那比較重要的是說我們看一下113年是比112年植栽增加了64例那我不知道說114年它會繼續上升還是下降那因為我要講的是整體來說114年應該是下降的"},{"start":264.148,"end":285.583,"text":"那我們下降聽起來很好 好消息 但我們來細看一下114年度職災死亡的人數是251人比這個前年度要減少了36人看起來如部長所說的 我們這個降災的成效看起來是不錯的"},{"start":287.184,"end":314.698,"text":"我覺得還有精進的空間好沒關係但是至少看起來人數下降嘛那這個要給你拍拍手但是呢我們在西部看一下實際上是因為今年我們的這個近年我們住宅的開工數也下降了下降了兩趴那也就是等於少了將近三千戶左右那這個也是一個很重要的數據那我們這樣換算起來"},{"start":316.219,"end":334.369,"text":"可能就不一定是降灾成效良好了因为更何况在你们的制造业就是说制造业的死亡人数它是比去年增加了7人那total是你看在全产业"},{"start":335.51,"end":352.137,"text":"這個7不要小看這7個人這就已經佔了這個增加這7個等於佔了全產業的25%的死亡人數了好這個是很高的好那我們再看一下喔就是在"},{"start":356.26,"end":369.112,"text":"教育跟宣導是當然是這個旨在預防非常重要的措施那感覺過去你們看起來是比較重視那畢竟就是說原住民利用這個我們遂時祭儀還有"},{"start":371.934,"end":395.749,"text":"各類的活動像射箭、壘球比賽等等你們在這些活動上藉這樣子人數聚集的時候我們大力的宣導當然這是過去研究所所主導而且有看到一些好成績但是同時我在這邊也要提醒勞動部就是我們要注意數據的正確性"},{"start":397.95,"end":413.304,"text":"那也不要像職安署就是說曾經他發布了然後又增加重大職災人數因為必要的時候部長你也可以請這個跟這個勞保局可以再確認一下部長是不是可以同意這樣的建議"},{"start":414.665,"end":440.932,"text":"我們當然會請治安署跟勞保局都保持資料上面的對接那今年初其實的確有一度我們有增加幾個人重大自災人數但比較大的原因是因為當時其實有一些自災認定案件還在司法單位裡面其實檢察官還在認定那後來檢方把那個他的資料給確認出來以後他是自災所以我們也很直接的就把這些相關的數字加上去那我們都不會隱匿不會隱匿絕對不會隱匿"},{"start":444.957,"end":471.317,"text":"因为大家都会去看当年的这个换算的人数嘛那至于你说每年都要去解释为什么增加我们现在会是每季那我想这个部分就提醒你们我每三个月就公布一次那这个另外要也是要再提醒劳动部就是说我们"},{"start":472.558,"end":494.338,"text":"就是說在這個你們那個下降就是說數據一下下降太顯著太漂亮然後又沒有分析原因的時候然後發佈的時間又比往年要再晚我說這樣的種種的這個跡象會讓我們難免去質疑這個數據的真實性所以跟我們說明我們接下來會是每三個月每一季就會發佈一次好"},{"start":496.618,"end":525.42,"text":"那我們就拭目以待希望有所精進那另外就是說勞研所的這個績效跟部長是不是重視會不會有沒有在重視是有很大的關係因為這個機構呢他當然配合這103年2月勞委會升格為勞動部之後呢所有的預算跟人員呢都沒有變動那全部都是職業安全衛生的背景的研究人員"},{"start":526.901,"end":554.41,"text":"那但是呢我們檢視一下這個政府的所長還有新來的主命呢都不是這個職業安全衛生的這個職安衛的這個專業的人去領導那本席只是想要請教說部長這樣子的安排在領導統一上會不會容易出問題那專業上有沒有說服力"},{"start":555.65,"end":583.418,"text":"會不會容易做出錯誤的決策跟判斷而不自知然後造成而且底下的這些專業的部署可能也不敢多說什麼那這些呢可能都會影響到部長做出一些在做判斷的時候做決策的時候可能會有一些落差那我想我不知道部長有沒有掌握這樣的問題或者認為這樣根本也不是問題"},{"start":584.841,"end":599.501,"text":"跟文說明第一個因為確實我們研究所這邊過去比較多會是專案位的人員但其實近年外界越來越重視很多關於勞動市場相關的研究所以我們這幾年尤其是跟勞動力有關的好"},{"start":599.821,"end":616.58,"text":"包括跟就業有關的這也其實是在我們整個研究的範圍裡面所以我們整個接下來當然我們還是會保持因為我們的在這個研究所的一個優勢就是針對職安衛的研究的部分可是接下來我們也會要來強化在勞動市場上面的研究因為這也是現在包括大家提到缺工的問題"},{"start":618.682,"end":638.655,"text":"包括各種勞動型態的研究的問題這可能過去不是傳統職安衛範圍的但是我講的是我剛剛談的問題主要是集中在我們的第一層一層的這個專業人士的部分他們的專業因為畢竟這個領導你也可以平衡一下"},{"start":639.856,"end":654.091,"text":"我的問題在這裡跟跟文說明其實因為現在那個王所長他之前在公布的重規師其實重規師就是掌握跟了解整個勞動部相關的政策其實都了解到都有一定程度的了解"},{"start":654.992,"end":675.658,"text":"所以當然這個如果委員有什麼建議我們可以也再來跟委員聽取委員的建議那或者是有什麼提醒也可以再來提醒我們我想我點出這個問題啦那那個部長重不重視認為是不是有問題就是我也沒有辦法勉強但我想"},{"start":677.398,"end":696.532,"text":"在針對因為我們是監督單位那我就提出這樣子的提醒那另外就是說今天另外的議題是霸凌那目前就是說有關於這個職場霸凌的諮詢專線我們查了一下除了1955之外還有這個職安署跟這個勞工健康服務的心理諮商專線並沒有專責的這個服務單位你們未來會設置嗎"},{"start":704.298,"end":721.194,"text":"會想要設置在哪裡嗎我想接下來在預防重圓中心我們會來規劃相關的機制好這樣很好謝謝喔那職安署的這個職場霸凌申訴管道申訴專線跟傳真請問從這個職安法的霸凌專章通過之後接到申訴服務的次數次量有沒有統計有沒有"},{"start":724.037,"end":736.448,"text":"對 你們有統計嗎跟委員報告 因為現行是條文還沒施行不過過去以來的不罰侵害的這個案件都有持續在接受跟統計所以目前是沒有啦因為還沒上路"},{"start":739.23,"end":766.035,"text":"因為只要是涉及到人的管理就有可能有這個霸凌的發生那這個涉及到客觀的事實跟主觀的感受那勞動部呢剛好就自己你們都遇到了那第一案呢謝一榮的案子勞動部從一開始調查是不成立的後來因為龐大的這個輿論壓力那我們又重啟調查然後又成立了這個就是他重新調查之後又成立了"},{"start":767.015,"end":787.355,"text":"结果呢这个法院认定又霸凌案又不成立那另外一件呢是裁判法人职灾中心的主管的霸凌案那法人的内部调查经过他经过三次三次的会议决议才认定这个霸凌案成立过程看起来是非常严谨啊"},{"start":788.588,"end":802.281,"text":"但是呢這位被認定霸凌案的副處長卻還不斷的去提告申訴人證人還有調查委員結果呢反而被法院的這個判決書"},{"start":803.982,"end":826.621,"text":"把這個調查的這個過程結果認定霸凌案的理由公開那結果呢就變成了這個是霸凌專章通過之後我國第一件我們第一件由法院引用職安法認證通過的霸凌案成立那我想要請部長去看一下那份判決書就是"},{"start":829.242,"end":842.63,"text":"臺灣臺北地方法院114年度勞檢制第183號民事判決原告葉秀珊告證人原告之訴駁回我想我把這一份就先送給部長"},{"start":862.961,"end":890.254,"text":"好 這個看起來職安署負責的調查程序跟結果遠遠不如你們當時的這個職災中心能夠在司法認證上站得住腳那部長你知道嗎在有聽說這位副處長在調查階段有私下事先跟調查委員接觸我想請教部長調查委員的名單是不是不公開"},{"start":892.155,"end":920.914,"text":"應該是不公開吧他不能事先公開吧根文說明第一個在重建中心當時有幾件的霸凌案我們都依照相關的程序來辦理所以確實因為這當然涉及到一些個資那幾件案子那確實有霸凌成立的情況他不是到法院才認定霸凌成立是在我們在這個重建中心在法人的調查裡面就認定"},{"start":922.155,"end":947.28,"text":"成立的對而且認定完以後也做了相關的處置好在法人那個時候就認定成立是好那你可能要關注一下後續的發展對所以後來我現在後來又有他們的提告到法院部長我現在問的你要回答我我現在問的是調查委員的名單是可以事先公開的嗎因為"},{"start":950.509,"end":979.366,"text":"因為你們的這位副處長他事先去跟著這個調查委員接觸了啊你不知道這件事嗎你知道嗎調查委員的名單我們其實並沒有公開好那我想請問葉秀珊副處長他是如何得知調查委員是誰那他怎麼可以事先去找調查委員部長你要不要回去調查一下為什麼"},{"start":981.647,"end":989.393,"text":"我不確定他怎麼知道但我要可以說的事情是說這個案子基本上這個內部的調查霸凌就是成立的"},{"start":990.751,"end":1018.037,"text":"我要在這裡 我現在不是部長你稍等一下部長你弄清楚我的問題我今天我不是在跟你討論霸凌案我不是在跟你計較霸凌案在你們內部就已經成立還是到法院才成立我今天我在乎的是為什麼這個副處長他可以事先知道這個調查委員的名單如果你們在這件事情上不能好好把關的話那未來會變成什麼樣子"},{"start":1021.098,"end":1032.284,"text":"所以我今天在這裡要求我很清楚有掌握這個訊息業副處長他有跟調查委員他有去找他有接觸那"},{"start":1035.785,"end":1055.245,"text":"你要很正視我提出來今天這個問題因為他可能就是成為未來你們在處理所有的大靈案的一個很重要的一個破口所以如果你有相關的資訊的話其實你可以提供給我們但是問題是這個葉副處長到處告人搞不好我今天質詢完他也告我呀"},{"start":1057.103,"end":1070.998,"text":"雖然不會成立但是他可能也會到處告啦那我要提一下啦就如果你有明確的事實的話你也可以提供給我們部長你暫時不要再跟我反駁任何事情因為我告訴你有這件事情那我們要提出來是因為"},{"start":1073.16,"end":1101.198,"text":"我希望你做調查你去調查為什麼會發生然後你把這個調查結果跟本席報告跟我們所有委員衛環委員會的委員來報告我為什麼要你做這個動作因為未來如果有內部的人因此受影響而有特定的立場造成有一方被冤枉了那霸凌專章未來還可以保護勞工嗎還是說變成有利人士的這些可以興風作浪的源頭"},{"start":1102.483,"end":1126.313,"text":"好我今天特別指出這個問題我是要你杜絕未來有可能發生同樣的問題所以你一定要回去調查所以委員當時在這個法人裡面的確有幾件霸凌案的調查霸凌案成立以後我們在人事上面都做了處理的就是希望杜絕也希望能夠讓法人有一個新的在人事上面一個新的開始"},{"start":1127.349,"end":1146.114,"text":"所以我們也不希望說未來負責調查的或者去做證人的都被變成被告或者是甚至被開除或者甚至被反告變成是霸凌的對象這些都是不對啦"},{"start":1147.625,"end":1162.777,"text":"所以一般的法律都可以透過執法或者這個行政命令來確保這個法律的效果可以被發揮那你們現在既然訂了這個霸凌專章但是你們卻沒有這個實質程序禁止行為等等的宣示都沒有所以"},{"start":1163.738,"end":1191.915,"text":"而且也沒有這個諮詢服務的專責單位所以我希望勞動部你們可以再繼續加油要有所作為讓自己通過的法案能夠真正發揮到保護被霸凌的勞工委員我還是做說明說現在附屬法規正在修訂中所以剛才委員剛才講到的幾個點包括禁止的部分在新的附屬法規裡面我們都有放進去對這是在去年底的修法之後然後再新訂的附屬法規那我們希望能夠在7月1號可以上路"},{"start":1192.844,"end":1208.168,"text":"好那這個部分喔我剛剛講的那個調這個事先那個名單洩露然後被我是說那個葉副處長去找的這件事情好你們一定要好好調查清楚如果有委員有什麼相關資訊也可以再提供給我們我們來確認對謝謝謝謝陳營委的資訊"}]}},{"id":"168167","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168167","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c55b510241aaf51bae62ad2ff7c69481570bdfb2511f2cb5c3b12e6e223e8e7575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"13:05:49 - 13:11:24","影片長度":"00:05:35","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:05:49+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:11:24+08:00","duration":335,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.915968750000001,"end":11.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.72971875,"end":11.691593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.552218750000002,"end":13.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.99034375,"end":17.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.289718750000002,"end":23.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.33534375,"end":24.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.719093750000003,"end":41.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.16784375,"end":45.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.99846875,"end":69.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.33221875000001,"end":119.65784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.24846875,"end":158.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.65721875000001,"end":123.87659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.89159375,"end":136.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.58409375000002,"end":191.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.27534375000002,"end":192.99659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.09784375,"end":209.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.60159375,"end":220.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.27909375000002,"end":234.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.06596875000002,"end":235.96034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.48346875000001,"end":240.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.85409375,"end":244.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.36409375000002,"end":247.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.51971875,"end":250.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.61221875,"end":249.88221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.43909375,"end":252.73409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.08846875,"end":257.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.61096875000004,"end":259.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.99034375,"end":262.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.60596875000005,"end":265.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.06534375,"end":269.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.44034375,"end":271.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.24159375,"end":275.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.29159375,"end":299.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.06846875,"end":325.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.49909375000004,"end":331.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.02971875000003,"end":332.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.09721875,"end":332.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.13096875,"end":332.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.45159375000003,"end":332.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.78909375,"end":333.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.24034375,"end":334.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.89846875,"end":335.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.11784375,"end":335.97846875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.026,"end":13.017,"text":"你好 我們請部長跟鐵道局局長請陳部長還有鐵道局 跟觀光署署長好 觀光署陳署長"},{"start":18.311,"end":40.619,"text":"部長好 部長我們先看一下我們的這個斗南車站的站前廣場那你看這個站前廣場跟斗南車站經過大幅步的擴建跟整修之後我們現在看到它整個門面看起來非常的乾淨那而且是有一些歷史性的這些建物都可以整體的融合在這樣子的規劃裡面"},{"start":42.216,"end":69.202,"text":"那我們認為我們的民雄車站它未來我們鐵路高加化之後它的空間也可以往類似這樣的方向去規劃我們這附近有早期的民雄警察分局的這個局長宿舍然後旁邊有鐵道倉庫然後還有農會倉庫那這些空間都基本上都具有歷史的這個意義在那整個人文的對整個民雄鄉的鄉親們來說都有它的歷史意義在那過去我們的車站"},{"start":70.722,"end":85.911,"text":"規劃的時候他以車站以功能性為主體以交通為主體他沒有辦法把人文地景歷史文化把它包裹進來那現在我們看到說從東南車站的這一個這個潛力看到說未來他是可以有這樣子的規劃的可能性的"},{"start":86.411,"end":103.628,"text":"那我的鐵路高教化預計是2031年來通車嘛那也就是說在整建的階段我們就可以把整個車站的周遭進行完整的規劃那以後完成之後它不是只是有交通性的意義鐵路高教化之後縫補整個市區讓未來的整個交通更便捷之外"},{"start":104.349,"end":119.287,"text":"他又可以把整個觀光的因素因子全部都納進去部長你認為民雄車站是不是有可能像或者是說超越斗南的車站 位化戰前的廣場而且連結周遭的歷史建物然後把它納入整個車站的新空間"},{"start":120.467,"end":144.358,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們有在規劃跟討論中那這個過程當中其實地方政府的意見也相當的重要因為這個不是只有我們鐵道局在處理這個軌道的這個高架化而已那我們之前在動工的時候我也跟委員有討論過就是說地方的一些文化跟地方的需求跟地方的創生或許也可以納入未來裡面的商業使用的思考那對於廣場"},{"start":145.478,"end":158.687,"text":"要怎麼使用這個部分或者是說整體的交通動線該怎麼樣去規劃我們會跟地方政府來做合作那大家來討論什麼樣的方向對地方來講是符合需求而且可以看得到有這個觀光價值存在"},{"start":159.605,"end":184.439,"text":"我看最近包含整個民雄的重返大學路啊各個地方的NGO啊那街景文化商圈的這些都已經成了各種不同的公民團體那這些公民團體都在討論說未來怎麼樣去規劃所以參與感是很重的所以未來當然地方政府一定是要納入我們的這個討論的空間相公所縣政府那還有這些地方的公民團體NGO"},{"start":185.379,"end":203.128,"text":"我希望有類似有公民參與這種神意式民主的方式把它全部都納入之後那接下來觀光署的行銷那就可以連結在後面的這個俄羅街也好美食文化歷史那整體的行銷就會更加有力所以這個部分"},{"start":203.228,"end":220.554,"text":"我還是希望說是不是能夠請這個我們會希望縣政府來帶頭那很快縣市長的這個選舉交接可能會是在這一年會比較忙碌但是我們希望說在那之前我們就可以先開啟這樣子的作業所以我們回去也會跟地方的縣府"},{"start":221.354,"end":246.401,"text":"官員們來討論說是不是就盡快來開始把這個前期就不要到後期的時候再規劃前期就必須先想好 是那納入大家的這個考量那盡快把它去推動這部分局長也覺得是我們可以把它納入的嗎剛剛有您報告因為民雄車站的這個建築還有包括跟周遭商業上面的整合那這個在去年現在縣政府已經召開過"},{"start":247.803,"end":270.791,"text":"都市審的這個審查委員會那基本上在去年五月就已經得到一個原則通過後續是在等都市計畫的變更之後呢再來去做確定的這樣的一個定案那委員剛剛所提示的我想包括而若一條街北側的廣場還有南側的這個廣場未來都會朝著這個方向來跟地方的創生跟相關的這些活動來做結合"},{"start":272.667,"end":299.41,"text":"最後就是這部分部長就跟民雄火車站比較沒有直接關係就高鐵的部分那我想未來我們嘉義縣太保站他接下來要承載的是整個嘉義科學園區那嘉義科學園區還是在擴建中包含嘉義的這個實驗高中等等全部都在那個區塊那縣府那邊已經有提示說整體的周遭附近已經開始可能只要"},{"start":300.191,"end":323.976,"text":"台積電完工之後再擴廠之後就會有擁設的狀態那另外一個部分就是跟高鐵的班次那未來隨著更多的這種國際的這個企業人士來的話我們認為說高鐵的班次可能是可以思考一下是不是像台南一樣增開這種直達的班次或者是多增加班次那對我們整個嘉義接下來的交通上面的輸入會比較有幫助"},{"start":325.577,"end":334.941,"text":"其實這個部分我們會請高鐵公司滾動檢討就他的需求跟我們實際能夠提供的餘量來做檢討那再麻煩部長把這個考量一下好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168166","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168166","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c5ee12cf285fa4be9e62ad2ff7c69481570bdfb2511f2cb5c69b51f63c6f260655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"12:59:14 - 13:05:36","影片長度":"00:06:22","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:59:14+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:05:36+08:00","duration":382,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.26659375,"end":8.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.78034375,"end":11.792843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.180968750000002,"end":13.379093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.480343750000003,"end":14.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.89784375,"end":17.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.918468750000002,"end":19.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.94346875,"end":21.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.41596875,"end":20.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.449718750000002,"end":20.669093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.02346875,"end":21.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.04034375,"end":57.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.07409375,"end":21.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.12471875,"end":22.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.01471875,"end":24.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.06846875,"end":65.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.55659375,"end":69.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.89346875000001,"end":75.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.32284375,"end":81.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.21221875,"end":92.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.43846875000001,"end":97.99034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.96534375,"end":96.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.37846875000001,"end":105.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.12846875000001,"end":106.41096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.41096875000001,"end":107.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.16596875,"end":111.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.86159375000001,"end":116.77221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.97471875000001,"end":121.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.32846875000001,"end":122.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.93159375,"end":126.42471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.67784375000001,"end":128.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.88846875000002,"end":134.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.72721875000002,"end":136.49909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.88721875000002,"end":137.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.88284375,"end":160.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.84034375000002,"end":139.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.92471875,"end":140.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":142.05096875,"end":142.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.06784375,"end":142.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":142.32096875000002,"end":142.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.77659375000002,"end":143.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":143.97471875000002,"end":143.99159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.99159375000002,"end":144.00846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.99971875,"end":146.94471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.00721875000002,"end":152.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.44159375,"end":154.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.44471875000002,"end":165.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.60846875000001,"end":169.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.21971875,"end":169.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.60784375,"end":184.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.57596875000002,"end":192.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.11909375000002,"end":203.81346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.48846875,"end":210.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.96846875,"end":215.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.86221875,"end":220.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":220.03034375000001,"end":221.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.07221875000002,"end":236.28096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.59346875000003,"end":244.44846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.18784375,"end":238.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":243.13221875000002,"end":244.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":244.26284375,"end":244.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.56659375,"end":277.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":277.18596875000003,"end":277.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":277.27034375,"end":305.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.82159375000003,"end":288.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.60784375000003,"end":305.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.41784375000003,"end":312.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.72471875,"end":313.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.97346875,"end":315.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.81721875,"end":314.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.03659375,"end":315.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.96471875000003,"end":317.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.04471875,"end":319.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.96409375,"end":343.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.92659375,"end":374.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.28909375,"end":383.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.17409375,"end":380.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":380.32596875,"end":380.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.79846875000004,"end":380.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":381.54096875000005,"end":384.13971875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.258,"end":8.163,"text":"好謝謝謝謝主席麻煩幫我要請陳部長請陳部長我們楊局長一起好了那個鐵道局楊局長楊局長部長這個會期不在交通委員會許久不見甚至想念"},{"start":21.755,"end":41.91,"text":"但我關心的議題你應該都知道啦首先這個會期還是想要先跟您還有楊局長探討一下我們這個汐止的新北市汐止的軌道運輸啦那除了西龍縣核定他目前在修正這個修正計畫沒有那麼急迫外啦另外兩個還沒動工的就是基隆捷運跟台北的民生縣那一段嘛"},{"start":42.29,"end":64.911,"text":"那想先確認一下 我們的基隆捷運 之前工程會有一些意見那目前新北市政府也已經在提升修正計畫進來了那我們目前交通部處理的狀況怎麼樣 那大概哪時候可以再函給工程會是 報告委員 我們鐵道局在4月中旬會來召開會議來做審議是那這個部分如果要更詳細我是不是請局長來回答"},{"start":65.572,"end":74.884,"text":"好那我們審議完了之後到工程會就一樣的問題工程會再討論一次嗎還是會說我們鐵道局討論的跟工程會討論的會是不一樣的項目"},{"start":76.785,"end":97.361,"text":"是針對工程會的意見來做處理那這次因為工程會有提出包括預算的編列的問題包括工程相關的設計上的問題那我想我們來協助新北市政府在這些議題上面來去回應工程會的意見所以有一點算是幫工程會預審把關的概念了啦也就是說工程會"},{"start":98.462,"end":127.974,"text":"充分尊重的話 遠上我們這邊省過工程會的意見就不會太大了可以這樣理解嗎好 那就再拜託我們鐵道局再多多的指導那另外一個這個台北民生線的部分就是西東線的延伸東湖到寧夏夜市這一段那之前的問題在於兩個嘛一個是營運單位嘛另外一個是機場經費分攤的部分營運單位好像之前討論的差不多了嘛那不確定機場這個經費分攤的部分還是說有沒有什麼其他的問題目前還在探討中需要去克服"},{"start":129.185,"end":157.112,"text":"跟委員報告八堵機場的議題這個共識還在努力當中所以經費分攤還沒有還沒有下來好啦那再拜託啦再拜託我們幫幫這個部長這邊是幫忙授權一下局長多多邀請其實專業最專業啦那需要裁員的部分這個各地方政府自己本來就要去做一些指引嘛我們交通部多多的協助啦好那再拜託這一點是應該算是整個西東縣已經開始做了"},{"start":157.512,"end":183.49,"text":"那既然已經投資下去了,要讓它的效益能夠高那就必須要整條線的串聯,才能讓整個西東線的捷運能夠來提升我想這應該是大家都會認同的一件事情那另外還有一個事情,就是現在捷運的補助啊之前我們就不去探討過去的原因了嘛,那現在補助確証少一點那有一些聲音出來說,因為有一些軌道建設現在已經是地方政府已經負擔了"},{"start":184.731,"end":202.97,"text":"可能一定很高的一個比例了中央補助的比例相對起來比較低了可能因為我們地方比較有錢了出了更多人那地方有聲音說那是不是既然都已經幾乎是地方出了未來如果說還有相關的軌道建設都地方出的錢那中央一定要透過在中央審查的這一段的行政程序嗎如果說他們願意"},{"start":204.531,"end":221.213,"text":"假設100%自籌這個軌道建設的話那這樣子的程序你們認為有沒有機會未來修法來做修改大眾捷運運輸法之類的讓地方在做軌道建設一部分為自己的負責任一部分加速行政流程"},{"start":222.156,"end":244.451,"text":"是 報告委員 這個部分我們要做通盤的檢討啦就是我們的審查要點裡面其實沒有把百分之百地方出資這一項把它挪移掉當然是那我們可以來做這方面的討論可以來討論啦 因為其實這個可以加速行政流程那一部分也是地方政府既然都全部他自己的出了錢他應該要對自己的稅金更要能夠對自己的市民去交代是是是"},{"start":245.051,"end":270.617,"text":"那另外一個請教一下還有一點時間就是我們的那個自駕車之前我們不是台美對等關稅有提到說我們的車輛的檢驗如果說如果簽訂了現在還沒簽訂如果簽訂了我們採納美國的檢測標準那大家會說那特斯拉是不是就能夠進來用自駕了那我知道在技術面跟法律面可能會有脫鉤的情況那部長這部分能不能多做一些說明如果說台美關稅簽訂了照之前大家講的那個版本過了"},{"start":272.717,"end":288.289,"text":"那我們特斯拉的自駕系統那在台灣上路的試用情形大概會是怎麼樣子的報告委員我對於交通部的要求是我們的法令必須要走在業者的需求之前也就是說車子研發出來了沒如果有的話我們法令要走在前面第二個有沒有業者的要求當然特斯拉在美國已經可以自駕了"},{"start":289.089,"end":313.216,"text":"有沒有要引進 如果有要引進的話我們一定要有適用的法令 不可以沒有所以這個部分其實我們交通部都有在對接到國外的法令那我們的法令也會先準備起來如果當有業者要進來 或者是委員知道有這樣的訊息給我們我們就會把法令做到完畢因為他說他是雲端更新就可以了其實每輛車都可以的 只要說台灣開放的話還是請市長多做一些說明 在實務面"},{"start":316.338,"end":342.995,"text":"這個部分我跟委員報告一下這裡面有兩個課題啦第一個部分就是說台美關稅談判裡面所涉及到的是這個安全法規的部分那剛剛委員所提到那個自駕的這個部分那個已經有些是跳脫到安全法規之外了那個只是就是說從Level 1到Level 5的一個部分那每一個這個他層級到什麼地方然後來到那個地方可不可以這個落地的"},{"start":344.116,"end":372.122,"text":"的一個課題啦那這個有一些像美國這個支架它開放也是到這個頂多到L2 Plus那有一些所謂支架的部分還是在特定場域裡面在特定場域裡面就有點像國內的一個這個沙盒那這個部分的話也就是剛剛早前這個部長有提到的部分國內支架這些相關的一個部分的話目前大概先朝這個公車這個部分來做推動那這個小客車這個部分的話基本上就是看市場的一個這個"},{"start":373.442,"end":383.161,"text":"所以不是像坊間說的只要開放了進來就可以用而是我們還是有其他除了車輛安全檢驗的部分還有其他的法令需要去做突破才有可能嗎對對對好那以上好謝謝好謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"168165","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168165","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c9dd68f812a26ed0be62ad2ff7c69481570bdfb2511f2cb5c69b51f63c6f260655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"12:51:12 - 12:58:56","影片長度":"00:07:44","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:51:12+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:58:56+08:00","duration":464,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.228468750000001,"end":7.574093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.759718750000001,"end":8.637218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.30721875,"end":14.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.77971875,"end":77.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.50846875,"end":82.78596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.32596875,"end":85.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.04284375,"end":91.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.24534375,"end":87.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.98721875000001,"end":91.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.02096875000001,"end":94.34534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.25221875000001,"end":103.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.33534375,"end":128.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.53534375000001,"end":121.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.17221875000001,"end":123.48846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.06159375000001,"end":131.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.69846875000002,"end":129.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.83346875,"end":129.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.85034375,"end":129.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.25534375,"end":130.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.33971875,"end":136.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.73534375,"end":142.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.31721875,"end":141.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.69596875000002,"end":150.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.91096875,"end":148.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.97784375,"end":159.28034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.67784375000002,"end":155.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.75284375,"end":168.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.65909375,"end":166.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.15221875,"end":171.39659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.98721875,"end":172.22346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.29096875000002,"end":172.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.72971875000002,"end":195.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.05096875,"end":208.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.44159375,"end":212.68971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.14534375000002,"end":266.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.44909375000003,"end":268.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.03534375000004,"end":285.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.57284375,"end":301.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.46721875000003,"end":288.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.69721875000005,"end":307.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.97034375000004,"end":349.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.54596875000004,"end":363.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.67909375000005,"end":396.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.09159375,"end":403.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.90971875,"end":398.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.40721875,"end":400.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.54221875,"end":400.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.77846875,"end":400.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.79534375000003,"end":400.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.96409375,"end":401.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.06534375,"end":401.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.13284375,"end":401.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.70659375,"end":401.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.74034375,"end":401.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.82471875000005,"end":401.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.97659375,"end":402.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.73159375,"end":404.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.20409375,"end":405.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.07721875000004,"end":437.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.57471875000005,"end":408.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.58721875000003,"end":452.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.23971875,"end":446.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.85471875,"end":454.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.93034375,"end":463.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.85846875000004,"end":457.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.97159375,"end":461.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.91221875,"end":463.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.84034375000005,"end":463.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.97534375000004,"end":464.11034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.233,"end":8.594,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請陳部長請陳部長委員好部長好那我們知道今年1月份的時候修法生效的牌照稅的第7條對於身障者他在使用車輛的部分有較大的放寬但是我們接獲了到很多的陳情是指出因為他規定車籍地須與身障者的戶籍地相同"},{"start":32.66,"end":44.946,"text":"那很多與實際同住的這個照顧者他車籍地那如果以自身戶籍呢跟身障者戶籍地不同的家屬呢他因為他還在跑這個病更的流程就變成不馬上受惠了那為了落實這樣的修法美意的話呢據我所知啊經濟就是交通部呢他已經啟動了這個放寬的這樣的一個規定"},{"start":55.111,"end":82.149,"text":"把這個牌照登記的跟駐居所跟就業駐住所的地址呢納入到車籍認定的範圍那他也並要他就知會激增了牌照稅的這個財政部那不想說這個程序上面有沒有辦法有沒有辦法加快尤其是現在在四月份已經就已經開始的生收牌照稅那部長你們這邊的看法是怎麼樣財政部那邊會來做解釋那他們來做解釋之後我們就可以來來做執行"},{"start":83.431,"end":102.83,"text":"那表示你們內部還沒有溝通嗎其實兩邊的訊息都有在溝通啦這個沒有問題昨天已經開過會了對那你們的時程有在什麼時程大家會完成這個部分我大概跟委員報告一下這裡面有兩個課題啦第一個就是說原來復席地對復席地那現在復席地跟這個"},{"start":104.392,"end":120.184,"text":"租居所或者是那個相關的部分那目前這些資料如果說只要有申請的話現在公務建立機關的車籍資料裡面已經有了那現在就是配一個現在財政部只要把這個原來戶籍對戶籍這個認定的部分把這個放寬進來的話那原則上"},{"start":122.245,"end":131.616,"text":"我剛才是在問這個地方那個監理車籍的部分 聯合上就OK那我現在問的是時間性 我知道你們有在方向做但是時間性上面呢我們要看財政部那邊他只要一發過來我們就可以馬上處理據我所知財政部也在發動因為我在財委會已經有知道這個消息所以事實上一個月之內有可能嗎"},{"start":145.951,"end":168.378,"text":"4月會發佈 財政部4月會發佈他只要一發佈我們就可以配合處理好 希望就4個月 希望是今這個月就能夠發佈 因為這樣子那他說有可能有已經繳了 不能有可能也會退稅也會處理嘛 對不對這個部分因為現在牌照稅是屬於地方稅我們資料提供給地方政府都是地方政府開竄那如果說後面需要做處理的話各地方政府會來做處理"},{"start":169.178,"end":195.111,"text":"好那我們繼續往下看齁在去年的時候呢看到彭博凱委員有跟你提到問到說這個台灣的這個有沒有一個科學的根據的數據去支撐這個限速的部分齁那請問部長那這邊因為是大家用特殊照相機在搶錢啊所以說這一部分有沒有可以告訴我說現在道路的速限的標準有沒有寫在哪一條"},{"start":196.429,"end":212.114,"text":"報告委員其實不是在哪一條是很廣泛的各個規範工程規範裡面其實也有對於速度的限制那這個包含工程設計的過程裡面部長我跟你講其實這部分你說你還沒辦法答出來到底有沒有對不對"},{"start":213.214,"end":215.996,"text":"你說可能在很多三進可是連兩條都沒有說出來那我們繼續往下看這部分我可以看到的是道路交通標誌標線設置規則當中85條就說了只說像你剛才所說的主管機關要參照那參照是什麼一個標準呢"},{"start":230.785,"end":239.056,"text":"就是參照的是路線設計 道路狀況 交通量 肇事資料跟其他因素呢可是你說了這部分的參照的這個內容之後呢本身的標準呢其實就是讓地方去落實的時候就是沒有標準嘛那怎麼想要去怎麼訂都可以啊"},{"start":247.466,"end":263.351,"text":"這個問題呢就可以知道說這個標準85條是一個這麼寬寬的只是一個因素在決定參考價值而已那根本就沒辦法去做那這個地方尤其我們看到是有了大車子的向右轉的時候撞死人了然後但是呢卻是用降速的方式呢還設置了照相桿呢來去來因應這根本就是找錯方向啊部長您的回應呢"},{"start":269.393,"end":285.093,"text":"報告委員每一條道路都有它的設計速率這是最基本的參考那其實也包含了很多其他的參考點不是只有這個您剛剛上面也有寫交通量跟造勢資料例如說很簡單的講學校的附近"},{"start":286.254,"end":306.633,"text":"是 部長我現在的意思是說這就涉及到我們的財產權它包括是道路安全因為我剛剛說的很多地方是大車它違規右轉你們卻是沒有對症下車跑到去把這個限速降低啊這不適用嘛再一說根本就是沒有質疑喔報告委員您剛剛在說的這個都不是交通部去把它速限降低都不是都是地方政府在設定的"},{"start":307.153,"end":311.838,"text":"因為你們的這個85條其實就是一個當初最高的就是在行政命令它是一個規則讓後面的地方能夠因此去做一個規範那在規範當中呢包括是速限的規定上面呢是希望說應該有個指引啦因為你的放空那四個因素等等其實是不夠的啦"},{"start":328.354,"end":349.068,"text":"所以就是說你們是不是可以來去承諾說像德國他們已經說了說這個有現行人區是30公里啊市區50公里市區外100公里其實如果相關的這些部分等等呢也應該都有相關的一個指引啊幫你空白授權代大讓地方政府可以去自行去做甚至還變成說是一個可以增加裁員的一種有利方式啊這樣子是沒辦法真正達到"},{"start":349.588,"end":373.781,"text":"報告委員所以行人友善區的書寫我們本來就是30以下本來就有市區您希望是50公里問題是在於有辦法所有的地方政府全部配合所以我說這個地方就是說因為你的放寬部長你請你要重視到我的重點在於說因為你的那個因素實在太多當然我知道也是有因地制宜可是這些指引是有必要的如果你沒有辦法這樣子看到的是以"},{"start":376.682,"end":403.678,"text":"北宜高速公路當中的在平民這部分他是用最小設計速限的方式在公路路線設計規範當中有這個過程去做那但是卻是以最彎曲最危險的彎道卻是完就規範所有的北宜高速公路北宜公路的這樣的一個一個一個速限喔其實是不合理的啦所以我才說必須要有一些指引而且我覺得您在說的指引其實都有存在在哪裡呢 現在有辦法這麼多的速率那在哪裡 在哪裡我是不是請局長跟您回答 好"},{"start":404.278,"end":433.898,"text":"我跟我們報告一下這個所謂指引的這個剛剛我也有提到就是指引的部分比如說按照你的道路這個等級那你這些道路包括在丘陵區或平原區那這些相關這個要設計的時候要怎麼如何設計的部分那像公路的部分在公路設計規範裡面有那像市區道路的部分的話這個國土署的市區道路附屬設施相關的一個裡面也有一些設計的一個規範所以設計規範是一個通則的規定但是到個別的一個路線的時候他會有"},{"start":434.658,"end":462.54,"text":"這個山區平原區這些相關的部分沒有因為你設置到跟地方政府有相關的現在設置到有至少有三千的這樣的一個測數設像感嘛所以這邊我想說你是不是給本席一個這樣子報告說這邊目前的這樣的一些你們有的這個執行等等還包括地方政府他們怎麼樣去落實是不是可以給本席一個報告好你需要這樣的資料我們會提供給OK好謝謝希望大家能夠尊重到我們的保障到我們的這個用路人的或是在用車用路人的這個安全好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168164","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168164","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c1d4d3cf9b13b0962e62ad2ff7c69481570bdfb2511f2cb5c5ab69b334a180b4b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"12:44:20 - 12:51:01","影片長度":"00:06:41","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:44:20+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:51:01+08:00","duration":401,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2.95034375,"end":4.2497187499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4.654718750000001,"end":5.920343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.207218750000001,"end":7.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.484718750000003,"end":25.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.27159375,"end":38.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.079718750000005,"end":49.845968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.18346875,"end":75.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":75.96846875,"end":75.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.98534375,"end":76.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":76.96409375,"end":91.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.03784375000001,"end":98.36159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":98.12534375,"end":99.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.08721875,"end":110.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":104.70659375000001,"end":104.72346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":104.77409375,"end":104.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":104.80784375,"end":104.92596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":110.86596875000001,"end":112.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.04284375,"end":120.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.35034375000001,"end":116.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.40034375,"end":126.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.35721875,"end":131.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.11159375,"end":137.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.44409375,"end":140.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.92034375,"end":146.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.33721875,"end":150.80909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":150.35346875000002,"end":151.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.26471875000001,"end":159.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.28034375000001,"end":160.54596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.20409375,"end":165.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.04721875,"end":172.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":173.18534375000002,"end":175.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.66596875000002,"end":177.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.62784375,"end":180.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":180.77909375000002,"end":182.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.39909375000002,"end":188.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":188.98034375,"end":194.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.19034375,"end":222.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":221.97096875000003,"end":246.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":231.55596875,"end":231.74159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":244.66784375,"end":246.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":246.96284375000002,"end":251.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":251.80596875,"end":253.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.97471875000002,"end":252.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.83534375000002,"end":264.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.03784375,"end":253.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":254.77596875,"end":255.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.91784375000003,"end":286.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":286.92284375,"end":297.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":298.36409375,"end":303.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":303.67971875,"end":317.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.48471875,"end":309.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.90221875000003,"end":312.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.96471875000003,"end":317.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":317.80409375,"end":317.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":317.87159375000005,"end":330.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":318.02346875,"end":318.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":330.76409375000003,"end":334.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":334.99971875,"end":336.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.58596875,"end":336.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":336.68721875,"end":336.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.78846875000005,"end":351.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":340.41659375,"end":341.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.60471875,"end":357.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.59159375,"end":355.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.48159375,"end":363.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.82221875000005,"end":376.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.71471875000003,"end":390.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":390.73784375,"end":400.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.06221875,"end":396.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.03659375,"end":396.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.76221875000005,"end":396.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.84659375,"end":397.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.28096875,"end":399.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.22159375,"end":400.84596875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.964,"end":5.632,"text":"好謝謝主席那我們請陳部長請陳部長"},{"start":13.054,"end":31.742,"text":"來部長辛苦了那先問一下這個地方的一個建設的問題這個武泰輕軌的這一個輕軌的這條路線它雖然是叫武泰輕軌其實它的起點站是在三重是從三重最後是到這個輕軌然後在三重還可以再跟我們這一個蘆洲縣還有個交接"},{"start":33.823,"end":57.304,"text":"然後呢 這個目前它的進度是今年的3月4號環境部的這個環評委員會已經通過了那等於是說 可行性研究已經核定了然後呢 都市計畫變更呢 也有這個公展的座談然後呢 環境部的這個環評的法律程序已經完成了那接下來呢 應該就是要等到這個交通部的這個綜合規劃報告嘛"},{"start":58.365,"end":78.881,"text":"那我看這個新北市好像今天捷運局也有過來那這個新北市的捷運局有送了這個綜合規劃報告給我們交通部在2025年的12月第四次提送那我想請問一下那有關於五太輕軌的這個最新的進度報告委員目前已經在我們鐵道局在審議當中"},{"start":80.302,"end":99.744,"text":"那我們1月16號已經喊請各相關單位大家一起來審查因為這不是只有在鐵道局裡面審查各相關單位那我們等他們的資料彙整回來之後就應該會有一些結論因為已經他提了4次了嘛是不是那就表示之前有被你們退了退了3次不斷在修正不斷在修正"},{"start":100.325,"end":111.605,"text":"通常這個因為這一關就是綜合規劃評估那這一關大概你們這個綜合規劃報告通常會審查多久的時間我是不是請局長來回答"},{"start":113.109,"end":139.691,"text":"根本報告這個其實沒有一定的期程其實要看計畫的成熟度那這個案子我想送進來的話我們過去有一些相關議題的處理包括跟高速公路之間的落墩問題還有工程經費的檢討等等我們對於這個案子的了解是應該這一次相關單位的審查意見回來如果可以收斂的話我們會簽給交通部建議召開捷運的審查委員會"},{"start":141.364,"end":160.36,"text":"那所以你認為現在最大的問題有在哪裡嗎那新北市有提出合理的說明了嗎過去主要的問題是跟高速公路之間的一個工程界面那這個問題我的了解是已經有收斂就高工局的意見應該是可以得到高工局的認可那經費的部分"},{"start":161.675,"end":187.387,"text":"經費的部分要看我們採組單位對於最後他的這個公共經費的估算還有工程造價是不是有回到最新的這樣的一個物價水準來做檢討那個總經費是多少那中央跟地方目前的總經費是513.96億那中央跟地方的負擔新北市政府的估算是中央要負擔183新北市政府負擔330"},{"start":189.839,"end":214.444,"text":"那如果說這兩個問題能解決這個綜合雇要報告就比較容易過關我想這個我們會再往下一個程序來走但是因為現在院裡面有給我們一些新的指示也就是希望我們全面檢討捷運建設的補助要點的相關規定那我不是很有把握對於這樣的一個議題是不是因為它是一個通案性的原則性的問題"},{"start":215.484,"end":231.006,"text":"那在這個個案上面會不會對於進度上面產生一些干擾我想可能我們要看後面我想如果是這個錢經費的問題的話那當然中央跟地方要去談因為現在財務法通過之後的確地方經費比較豐富分配比例會不一樣"},{"start":231.727,"end":257.83,"text":"對啊 那這個是可以調整但是我還是希望說不要因為這個經費卡住因為這個計畫是好的 正確的話還是盡快能夠讓他通過經費問題當然還可以跟那個新北市政府在談不過你講的這也不是個案全盤台灣通案來處理好 我是希望說能夠盡量把這個五太經委能夠讓他完成我們來努力因為完成之後還要七年依照委員的要求 我們來加速好 謝謝 接著部長"},{"start":258.89,"end":276.822,"text":"時間到了還有 再問一下我們這個親民的這個的這個交通的規劃那請教一下部長你們有請這個國道的這個客運業者來配合這提出了蠻多的優惠86條路線有6折TIPA 12.0最高42折然後加10小時的這個轉成免費然後提供了這個122萬個座位但是呢"},{"start":287.189,"end":303.228,"text":"這個是3月25號的資料啦預售票才售出3.7萬張就是你們有122萬個座位啊但是呢只有售出3.7萬張那我不曉得最近的這個宣傳的情況怎麼樣那現在賣出了多少張"},{"start":303.889,"end":330.317,"text":"報告委員其實我們在這個國道客運的部分它本來預售的狀況都不會太好因為大家的習慣是到現場去買票那我們這幾年這兩年裡面我們推出了很多的優惠方案尤其在廉價的時候那我們有看到就是說每一車的這個承載人數的數量人次的部分其實都有在上升也就是說利用率有在提高利用率有在提高那我們希望可以做得更好"},{"start":331.214,"end":347.373,"text":"那我問一下局長 去年應該也有類似的這個優惠嗎我們最近這幾個連假都有那目前大概整體狀況整體狀況大概就是陳母部長剛剛所提到的部分就是個別車輛每車乘客率的部分的話從18點多拉到這個19點多"},{"start":352.717,"end":376.145,"text":"18點多到19點多再加一個人我們不是一台車可以做到快40個人嗎那個拉一個人那個在國道上面算是蠻不錯的那另外一個部分的話就是說東部東部這個排北宜蘭的部分那個運量都有這個成長那在西部的部分大概目前持平但是在西部各北的國道科運業者裡面有些人這個成長的比例都相當高"},{"start":376.945,"end":398.785,"text":"我這個是一個非常好的優惠也能夠節省大家的錢然後大家利用國道客運也能夠盡量不要去塞車這是好的政策但是我認為到現在為止好像不知道是宣傳效果不夠還是怎麼樣我們再加強宣導不然才提供那麼多的位置結果做不到一半好不好謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"168171","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168171","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cad9dd7d1d89500fbe62ad2ff7c69481570bdfb2511f2cb5cd553ae1fc4f0545b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"13:11:38 - 13:17:24","影片長度":"00:05:46","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:11:38+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:17:24+08:00","duration":346,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.32534375,"end":9.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.396593750000001,"end":13.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.037218750000001,"end":14.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.04034375,"end":33.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.56159375,"end":55.195343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.532843750000005,"end":56.055968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.359718750000006,"end":172.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.76346875000002,"end":204.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.10846875000001,"end":206.47971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.47971875000002,"end":230.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.45096875000002,"end":337.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.52221875,"end":231.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.12159375000005,"end":346.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.09596875,"end":340.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.69471875000005,"end":343.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.06971875000005,"end":348.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.67721875,"end":347.14971875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.804,"end":13.402,"text":"好 謝謝我們主席 林總召這邊先請我們觀光局 對不起 交通部部長請陳部長"},{"start":21.272,"end":41.94,"text":"阿姨部長好因為本席昨天總質詢有兩個議題是跟你們有關的最後一個議題因為時間比較窘迫所以今天本席在這邊在做一個比較完整的一個就教昨天的最後一個議題就是在談我們希望能夠打造一個台灣的朝聖之路這個議題其實本席已經關心很久了"},{"start":42.56,"end":70.397,"text":"那遠啟最主要是整個長距離徒步的旅行是成為一個很重要的旅遊的趨勢那很具代表性的昨天本席有講過就是西班牙的跟日本的兩條路徑型的文化遺產那這兩個路徑型的文化遺產其實整合了歷史的敘事跟宗教文化還有地方的經濟它其實已經形成了一個國際品牌辨識度非常高的一個旅遊行程"},{"start":71.377,"end":99.28,"text":"那麼很重要就是說我們其實也蠻有幸的台灣在過去其實我們在許多這個宣教士的一個歷史跟宗教文化脈絡上有這個朝聖之路的條件那東部目前也有人希望能夠在這個部分更做一個強化來做宗教性的一個徒步觀光路往那目前很重要的一件事情就是說中央層級跟地方的一個整合其實還有一些落差所以本席要請教部長那交通部是不是也有評估"},{"start":100.481,"end":117.763,"text":"把現在分散的一個宣教士的文化路徑整合成為一個徒步的旅遊路網然後在半年內是不是可以具體可行的評估一些事辦計畫事實上台灣現在很多人在走那我們也可以從一些相關的討論看到大家在走的時候的一些需求"},{"start":118.704,"end":134.842,"text":"那台灣的一些宣教士的歷史足跡其實包括了西班牙的道明會大概在南部跟北部都有這樣一個路徑還有在花蓮有法國外方的一個傳教會東部地區花東也有台東的白冷會跟中部有聖瑪利諾"},{"start":135.903,"end":156.504,"text":"這只是說天主教的系統 基督教的系統還有馬街 瑪雅各等等但目前呢 相關的這些資源都分散在不同的部會當中有文化部 然後也有這個園民會的這個園鄉那所以有一些跟觀光署或地方的相關的這個部分其實比較沒有一個整合性"},{"start":157.125,"end":172.266,"text":"所以這些文化路徑可不可以來結合既有的國家綠道 你昨天有談到那淡蘭古道 張之細路 等路然後好好的來建構一個路網成為一個台灣的朝聖路網那事實上這個東西也可以直接跟"},{"start":173.728,"end":188.148,"text":"目前國外的品牌來做結合或者是我們可以自己獨立發展出來一個品牌那本席這邊提醒我們知道你們現在在觀光轉型上在旅遊的這個旅宿的升級也做了一些投入但是很重要的目前看起來都有點"},{"start":189.129,"end":204.716,"text":"景點是 可是現在的趨勢是漫遊 徒步旅遊那這個部分其實所需要的經費也不多那有的時候你們就是做一個整合性的工作所以目前不知道你們是不是可以將徒步的觀光跟漫遊台灣納入中長期觀光的一個政策"},{"start":206.661,"end":231.85,"text":"部長好 謝謝委員的關心您所提到的這個朝聖之路那這是一個應該是蠻新的一個看法在台灣那您提出來是不是我請觀光署也去了解一下類似這樣子的遊程現在的吸引力到底有多大那有沒有可能有一些旅遊團或是觀光團願意走這樣的路程我們先了解一下可能在這個部分一個是所謂的觀光的思維然後一個是"},{"start":232.91,"end":254.691,"text":"自助性的那其實現在很多人在走那大部分大家會自己連結可是這樣觀光團一併進去的一個方式可能大家這中間要有一些整合跟一些溝通跟對談那是不是你們可以先把這些路網給整理出來然後了解一下目前已經在走的人的一個狀況那看看大家的需求是什麼"},{"start":255.171,"end":276.153,"text":"那當然這裡面有一個大家也不太熟悉的概念就是過去這種長期徒步的比較長徒步的這個路網型態有這個所謂的庇護所的一個系統這個是台灣可能都完全沒有的一個概念那事實上這個部分也可以透過一些空間的活化或平台的整合跟連結然後把這個系統慢慢的整合起來"},{"start":276.753,"end":293.878,"text":"那目前現階段其實交通部這邊能夠做的就是路網的一個安全性然後跟一個路網的指示性我想這是第一步可以來做的那本席這邊先做一個這個建議啦但是切入的觀點就如同這個概念在台灣並不是太盛行"},{"start":294.278,"end":322.703,"text":"所以我們或許可以轉化一個旅遊團或觀光團大部分切入的一個觀點能夠讓大家自助性的或者是自發性的目前已經在走的或者是曾經在國外走過的然後在國內把這個路網再連結起來最重要就是這些宣教士跟歐美文化的一個連結這個甚至在外交上很多歐美人來到台灣會尋找這種路徑我想如果外交部比較更深而且有一些經驗的外交官他們大概都知道"},{"start":323.403,"end":340.992,"text":"這樣一個連結是什麼樣子的一個形態當然觀念很新最主要就是說可不可以透過了解跟對談把這個路網給建置起來那是不是可以列為交通部在中長期的一個計畫的一個建置呢好 我們把這件事列入討論我們把它列進來討論因為過去確實沒討論過謝謝委員提供這麼好的建議那我們以後把它列入討論好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長"}]}},{"id":"168170","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168170","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c89bfd88b6c788295bd67b93b5004dc0270bdfb2511f2cb5cae5e27c9773548e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱慧洳","委員發言時間":"13:18:07 - 13:24:35","影片長度":"00:06:28","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:18:07+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:24:35+08:00","duration":388,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.00971875,"end":8.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.73346875,"end":14.290343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.442218750000002,"end":50.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.220968750000004,"end":54.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.16034375,"end":63.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.25721875,"end":75.15846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.61034375,"end":73.50471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.49596875,"end":95.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.40846875000001,"end":96.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.99909375,"end":98.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.78784375000001,"end":119.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.09409375000001,"end":109.36409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.15159375,"end":119.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.23596875000001,"end":139.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.67159375,"end":140.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.00471875,"end":158.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.14534375000002,"end":170.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.56221875,"end":164.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.27909375000002,"end":167.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.89909375000002,"end":169.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.08034375,"end":170.11409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.41784375,"end":170.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.63721875000002,"end":171.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.80596875,"end":170.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.53159375,"end":187.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.97409375,"end":175.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.10909375,"end":175.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.30596875,"end":184.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.89596875,"end":220.26659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.26659375000003,"end":234.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.73409375000003,"end":225.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.17221875,"end":230.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.64409375000002,"end":268.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.01846875,"end":242.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.07221875000002,"end":249.40971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.40909375,"end":253.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.42596875,"end":253.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.49346875,"end":253.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.77596875,"end":256.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.65659375,"end":262.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.69034375,"end":263.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.19159375000004,"end":344.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.93034375,"end":372.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.54659375,"end":389.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.05284375,"end":373.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.53596875000005,"end":386.97471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.717,"end":6.048,"text":"還有各位委員同仁 還有各位政府部門的同仁 大家好那我們有請鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":13.772,"end":18.894,"text":"今天我站在這邊是想替偏遠地區的校戶來請命因為似乎感覺政府忘了校戶的存在我們講一下其實針對偏遠地區因為人才有容易流失的問題"},{"start":35.862,"end":63.296,"text":"所以呢我們這個學校的 偏遠地區學校教育發展條例就規範說為了挽留這些專業人力在偏遠地區所以呢有規範了9任獎金那部長不知道您知不知道這件事9任獎金是"},{"start":64.672,"end":83.252,"text":"確實我們九任獎金從教育部來講我們當然學校裡面第一個思考的就是老師、校長、主任這些確實也因為這樣校務或者過去有一些輔導人員在這個部分就被社工人力的一個在校園裡面就被忽略"},{"start":83.912,"end":95.238,"text":"因為它涉及到權序部跟人事總處所以我們必須要考量所有人員上的一些性質跟設立的一些特性所以我想這個還有待一些跨部會的一些討論部長謝謝你的回覆那你剛剛提到說教師要關照到"},{"start":102.182,"end":113.053,"text":"可是事實上這個偏遠的地區學校教育發展條例他關照到的不是只有教師而已他關照到是10類的人員10類的人員而我們校護卻不在這10類人員的範圍之內關照的人非常的多可是我們"},{"start":119.5,"end":137.821,"text":"我們校戶卻被獨排於外那我想這裡呈現出來的關照道的人有教師有校長那還有專聘教師代理教師專業您剛講的專業輔導人員其實他有被包括在裡面那社工人員也有包括在裡面那除此之外副社的幼兒園當中的園長"},{"start":141.084,"end":156.826,"text":"老師教保員助理教保員都有在這個9任獎金的發放範圍之內但是獨弄我們這個校戶難道我們校戶真的在這個政府部門的眼中這麼的不重要嗎可以獨排於這10項人員之外"},{"start":159.175,"end":187.395,"text":"我想我的心情跟委員是一致的校務當然是重要的它是在穩定學校的學童的一些健康的一個力量所以我同意這一個部分在校務裡面我們怎麼樣來努力或者用怎麼樣的方式因為剛才特別提到專業的輔導老師 代理代課老師這都是我們教育部可以直接做為的但是因為校務基本上它的一個整個任用"},{"start":188.956,"end":213.698,"text":"沒有他的任用其實這10類人員的任用跟校戶也可以相提並論為什麼其他的人有校戶沒有那我們看到這些9任獎金其實雖然不是說金額非常的巨大但是至少也能夠撫慰校戶感覺好像被不公平對待的一個心情有相對剝奪感已經出現了因為別人都有但校戶都沒有那這些數字"},{"start":214.318,"end":233.935,"text":"好這些數字真的是既看不到也吃不到那再請那個署長幫我們來做一個說明謝謝委員給我們這個說明用10秒簡單的說明剛剛講的幾類人員他屬於部長或是國教署或是地方政府教育單位可以直接做決定而不涉及到相關單位人員"},{"start":234.836,"end":242.962,"text":"那今天如果在包含衛福部、全區部在看校護護理師這個角色的時候可能也會讓我們去顧慮要我們也多幫忙去思考校護之外的護理人員"},{"start":249.847,"end":266.233,"text":"那種也有在偏遠地區比如說衛生所等等所以這個是不是容我們也做一些討論因此在當時的第21條他大概有這些顧慮之後希望教育部處理教育部能處理的部分不過剛剛部長已經有說可以再去約相關單位大家一起再討論這涉及到21條"},{"start":268.234,"end":294.344,"text":"相關單位討論那什麼時候可以給我們時間表因為那個署長您剛有提到嘛好像關照到學校的校戶然後就好像也會連帶的被質疑說衛生所為什麼沒有我想衛生所他們全也要打關但是我們現在是在講校園裡頭的情境其他10類人員都有了獨排校戶沒有我覺得這個可以不用扯到衛生所人員的事情去我們就是在校園裡頭我們先處理校園裡頭一件事這是第一件事"},{"start":297.205,"end":309.835,"text":"那第二件事其實我們偏遠地區的學校教育發展條例第9條有提到說中央政府其實是有補助地方政府某些經費的那其中有一個項目就是第9條第1項提到說這個合理的配置這個"},{"start":313.277,"end":337.902,"text":"護理人員然後還有協助他們的專業發展所以9任獎金的裁員就來自於第9條第二項那第一項又提到銷戶那不知道為什麼前面有關照到銷戶就第9條然後21條卻沒有關照到銷戶這是我的疑問齁那剛也提到您也提到說願意研議嘛那事實上早在你們願意研議之前因為銷戶一直來跟我請命那我也提出這個修正的草案那修正的草案我就在第21條的第二項把銷戶納進去了齁那剛你們"},{"start":341.383,"end":344.077,"text":"提出願意演繹 那不曉得這邊可不可以給我們一個具體的時間表"},{"start":346.974,"end":371.693,"text":"我們在一個月內其實對這個議題我們也覺得 像剛剛布朗講的這個護理師如果在我們的偏鄉服務那麼久看怎麼樣不會衝擊到其他的我們可以照顧好那這個是不是給我們一個月我們會約時間但這個一個月是約了以後談一下方向是不是他逐步會往前進的過程或洽談的過程我們再回報委員中間的一些商議結果"},{"start":372.674,"end":388.741,"text":"沒有問題謝謝教育部願意帶回去演繹那也希望在不久的將來就是教育部這邊跟我這邊我們能夠聯手來守護校護的一些權益然後保障偏遠地區學生的健康這樣子以上謝謝謝謝邱惠如委員的質詢"}]}},{"id":"168169","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168169","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cd4a583eb015a6fe0bd67b93b5004dc0270bdfb2511f2cb5c26b757c7aa9b9ad15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"13:11:17 - 13:17:52","影片長度":"00:06:35","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:11:17+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:17:52+08:00","duration":395,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.52721875,"end":12.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.176593750000002,"end":14.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.94346875,"end":20.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.70284375,"end":21.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.187843750000003,"end":43.737218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.462843750000005,"end":57.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.173468750000005,"end":64.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":64.76346875,"end":71.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.48846875000001,"end":70.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.34471875,"end":74.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.26409375,"end":78.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.76596875,"end":76.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.36471875000001,"end":82.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.31346875,"end":83.39346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":84.00096875,"end":84.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.72659375,"end":87.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":86.68409375,"end":86.76846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.76846875000001,"end":134.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.77034375000001,"end":101.78721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.78721875000001,"end":101.93909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.93909375000001,"end":102.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.02471875,"end":121.54784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.40221875,"end":137.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.18659375000001,"end":138.99659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.22034375,"end":160.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.36034375,"end":160.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.15346875,"end":166.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.30846875,"end":177.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.21034375000002,"end":176.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.04971875,"end":180.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.13346875000002,"end":212.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.56284375,"end":237.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.38846875000002,"end":223.64159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.18784375,"end":241.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.00159375,"end":245.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.76471875000001,"end":247.75596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.99221875,"end":249.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.57409375,"end":251.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.78909375,"end":252.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.30784375000002,"end":258.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.15971875,"end":258.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.28596875,"end":261.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.66971875,"end":304.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.27034375,"end":304.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.52346875,"end":347.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.84971875,"end":377.25471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.05221875,"end":378.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.97596875000005,"end":391.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.09409375,"end":380.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.99096875000004,"end":391.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.69971875000005,"end":392.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.37471875,"end":396.40784375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.558,"end":13.243,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請鄭部長好 有請鄭部長委員好"},{"start":20.762,"end":38.777,"text":"好部長好那我們知道去年呢教育部調高了國中小的導師費還有包括監政的這個終點費並增訂了行政獎金這都提高了但是獨立了以工作為終點計時的這個專輔教師那請問這部分"},{"start":44.502,"end":54.095,"text":"因為這部分我在1月19號的時候也做了這樣一個質詢部長你那時候說應該要跟人事行政總處來做研議才可以知道那現在過了70天請問現在研議進度是怎麼樣有什麼結果嗎"},{"start":60.336,"end":82.754,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在目前確實在這個專輔老師因為他的一個工作性質事實上是跟中小學老師是不一樣的他並沒有一節一節的他是個案在接個案裡面您的現在進度是怎麼樣還沒有研議結果出現嗎我們目前並沒有並沒有一個具體的有在研議嗎"},{"start":84.056,"end":104.916,"text":"有有有那大概什麼時候要做研議跟委員報告剛剛部長已經特別有說明接到委員這樣一個垂詢之後部長立即請我們就各類老師包含甚至剛才柯恩老師的一個情形我們都做研議包含地方政府的態度所以這些可能因為一點時間要收斂具體的講"},{"start":106.357,"end":134.747,"text":"像目前你採個案認定以現在學校在認定個案上二級輔導它的認定的情形或是個案數量你可能它有它的複雜性小校有小校的複雜性六十班的學校跟六班的學校這可能要有22縣市政府有經驗的這些福祉中心可能要給我們一點時間但我覺得這一類的演繹很有價值它得要走過這個過程沒有辦法一下跳到那個答案"},{"start":136.767,"end":159.394,"text":"可能給我們兩個月從1月19號您問了之後那兩個月我們已經有初步了解到縣市對這件事的可能的態度但還有專業的團體以及現在我們剛剛有講到的五個議題在4月份會跟地方政府一起談整體的相關的會商那個會商會比較大規模會涉及到剛剛您提到的這個議題好"},{"start":161.235,"end":184.833,"text":"那包括像他非上班時間的這個加班他這部分也是會考量去一去就對了這個比較細節的會等到所有研議的那個議案會從上層一直到中層或下層這個逐個議題再來一起探討好 謝謝那我們又聽到的是因為中央呢在輔資中心的這個安排上面呢這個中央因為"},{"start":186.334,"end":212.294,"text":"才化法的一個理由然後減少了對縣市的這樣的輔資中心的一個補助從87%降到少微到50%以下那這部分呢結果那個他的督導的能量就不夠了那請問可是這個民眾的學生他自己的一個心理的健康的需求是很重要的他還是都有需求那預計用哪些措施來跟各縣市政府合作來照顧到孩子們的這個心理健康呢"},{"start":214.622,"end":236.468,"text":"跟各位人報告那委員剛剛關心的涉及到補助比率以及在相關的補助下怎麼樣強化中央地方的合作那首先因為在財劃法的確我很坦率的講國教署的經費是最直接跟地方政府有關那跟這一波的財劃法也是直接相關我們被大概整體調雲了大概138億所以相關的這個補助的設算會變動"},{"start":242.116,"end":246.885,"text":"那地方政府我們隨便抽取四個直轄市有兩個直轄市增加400多億有兩個直轄市增加"},{"start":250.655,"end":275.068,"text":"三百億有一個省轄市增加兩百億有一個第一線市增加一百八十八億地方政府應該把錢撥出來讓大家出來是不是可能就會照委員講的我們會有一些在第一個議題上在經費的整體的運作上會有一些溝通第二點可能在即便這樣的一個情況下部長還是站在整個國家往前學生的利益最大的話所以"},{"start":276.589,"end":303.712,"text":"這裡面會有一些措施仍然在不變的情況下還會往前進例如最新修的輔導法在輔導室的功能還有各處是包含普特融合輔導室統整功能等等這新一波的執法都在運作中那這也是新修的學生輔導法之後的四個執法那在併同四月份可能還有一個新的執法以及相關的補助要點都會來運用在這些措施的強化 謝謝"},{"start":304.673,"end":323.167,"text":"好 謝謝我們看到國教署有這樣的用心發現到這個財化法上面的分配精粹上面的也願意做這樣的相關執法的再把它補充進去好 謝謝那最後一個問題就是涉及到我們關心到大專的部分就在大學每900位的學生才分配到一名具有心理師跟社工師資格的專輔人員"},{"start":324.508,"end":347.04,"text":"但是這些專輔人員他們事實上在三年就算九任了流動率就非常高尤其看到他們最終把行政負擔過多雜務也過多這些部分薪資當然不如預期因為一個諮商師可能一個小時就是一兩千塊這樣子的一個費用那現在想要問的是說如果降低大學薪輔人員的流動率這部分那請這邊部長是不是能夠做回答"},{"start":350.075,"end":377.47,"text":"跟委員報告有關大專幸福人員的這個部分其實我們在去年就有提高我們相關的經費補助那像國立的部分我們都是提高到一個人要55萬然後私立的部分一個人是提高到65萬其實我們光是今年補助給大專校園的這個幸福人力就經費就高達3億多了那這個部分我們也會持續跟各個學校來一起合作然後看怎麼樣的措施可以讓這些人可以繼續留任那你們這個是專款專用嗎"},{"start":379.111,"end":379.491,"text":"謝謝劉淑冰委員的質詢"}]}},{"id":"168187","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168187","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106ca9b7d424b220d69fbd67b93b5004dc02d517ee29457ab42dad42bf842d6bf2965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"13:45:27 - 13:52:10","影片長度":"00:06:43","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:45:27+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:52:10+08:00","duration":403,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.71721875,"end":13.075343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.57784375,"end":10.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.36221875,"end":15.454718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.488468750000003,"end":32.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.68409375,"end":150.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.07096875000002,"end":166.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.30471875,"end":174.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.94096875000002,"end":171.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.73409375,"end":175.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.48471875,"end":174.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.64909375000002,"end":177.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.96096875,"end":315.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.43221875,"end":186.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.99846875000003,"end":331.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.00471875,"end":340.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.04096875000005,"end":349.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.40659375,"end":355.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.60846875000004,"end":354.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.03034375000004,"end":355.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.58721875000003,"end":355.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.68846875,"end":356.32971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.84034375000005,"end":355.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.32971875000004,"end":356.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.70096875,"end":357.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.02159375,"end":357.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.13534375,"end":361.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.93221875,"end":362.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.59034375000005,"end":368.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.73721875,"end":392.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.18471875,"end":399.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.33971875000003,"end":402.97221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.389,"end":18.359,"text":"謝謝我們的主席吳釗瑋我請我們部長再次有請鄭部長謝謝鄭部長 部長 府會同仁 大家好"},{"start":22.041,"end":46.222,"text":"本席長期在關心有關於偏鄉跟原鄉的一個教育環境最主要是因為這些地方資源不足,失之不穩的結構性問題也是長期存在但是今天本席要針對一個個案來做一些關心也就是跟本席脈絡也很親的澎湖縣就是離島的一個問題,我想跟偏鄉原鄉都有一些相同的處境"},{"start":46.983,"end":64.301,"text":"那么大池国小有一个家长的集体澄清案件那全校大概14名学生已经很少了只有近半以上也不是近半应该多于一半以上的大概有九位家长的联署来向教育相关单位去反映"},{"start":65.021,"end":77.871,"text":"教學跟行政的問題那也提出了二十幾頁的這個具體事證那反映的內容包括課程長期的落後然後期末也倉促趕課然後最重要的是也常常存在的一個教學還沒有完成就進行評量那考試 那考試的狀況呢又自行翻書"},{"start":83.976,"end":111.645,"text":"那這樣子的狀況對教長來講很難以想像那這些問題都很長期的累積那在教學行政跟校務的層面呢那校長也沒有辦法督導那整個入班的一個官課跟教學輔導的機制沒有好好發揮功能感覺像學校好像失去了一些治理所以多次向縣府的教育處反映也沒有具體的改善那麼所以在這個部分本席請教"},{"start":112.985,"end":133.939,"text":"第一個部分是如果對於家常多次具體陳情也沒有辦法改善的案件教育部會不會多做一些了解然後去做處理然後第二個部分是像偏鄉這類小學校的這個案件那當地主管機關如果沒有能夠有效的處理的時候教育部是不是有主動能夠介入跟督導的一個機制還是完全仰賴地方的一個治理"},{"start":134.779,"end":158.826,"text":"那第二個部分是那目前對於教師品質跟這個校務運作的監督有沒有一個跨縣跨縣市一致的標準呢那會不會因為地方的差異讓偏鄉的學生或離島的學生的權益就被打折那這個部分是不是請部長先回應謝謝委員這個提醒我們這個大城大慈國小我想我們在下班之前我們一定會了解然後必要的時候我們就會"},{"start":160.047,"end":167.254,"text":"這個國教署會專人到學校裡面去介入實地的一個勘察最主要主動關心那離島整個資源狀況也跟田鄉很接近對可能做一個關心好不好"},{"start":178.064,"end":199.443,"text":"那麼最重要就是說那個中央跟地方有效的一個補位的救濟機制可能請那個部裡面要針對這些可能最沒有資源最需要保障的學生去做一個處理讓教育的一個公平性能夠被落實那接下來本席也在談一個長期以來大家都在講但是也是這個通面性的一個問題也就是學習歷程檔案的一個"},{"start":202.906,"end":218.703,"text":"實際成效啦那本席進入立法院之後其實這個議題常在談那幾年來都會再又整理一次我想他的初衷最重要是希望能夠憑良多元化但是食物的運作到底有沒有在符合他的初衷那一段時間都會有人拿出來討論"},{"start":219.764,"end":239.382,"text":"那麼你們的國教所的統計啦108的課綱第一屆到第三屆的高中畢業生那整個的學系成果沒有提交的比例從第一屆的18.31%達到了第三屆的30.17%那這個沒有提交比例的增加那是不是制度的一個運作有一些明顯的落差"},{"start":240.543,"end":265.551,"text":"那這邊我們來談一下其實很多人也提到學習歷程在實務上漸漸變成了一個資源的競爭者那有資源的學生就參加各種營隊製作精美的檔案然後外部還可以進行一些內容的包裝但是實際這個資源比較少的學生比如說像本席關注的偏鄉原鄉甚至剛才所說的離島的這個個案往往沒有辦法投入相同的時間跟成本那這個其實是"},{"start":268.192,"end":291.889,"text":"这样子的本来是希望多元化的初衷就扩大了城乡的一个差距跟社会阶级的落差然后最后本席要提醒AI时代的来临那深层式的AI也会在学习历程档案在真实性上跟可验证性上面临挑战那包括部里面或者是相关单位要来检测的话呢也是有很大的一个问题所以"},{"start":292.409,"end":315.569,"text":"那目前大學的入學主要還是以學測成績作為門檻那學習歷程本來應該是輔助的資料那是不是在這個部分整個升學體制當中的定位你們要不要再做一個比較確切的一個回應那最重要就是說制度如果沒有辦法這個減輕壓力就增加了一些沒有必要的負擔又擴大了不平等那是不是應該要檢討啦"},{"start":317.691,"end":340.371,"text":"我們其實長期以來有很多檢討的聲音但是這個問題還是存在這個一個通案性的問題本席在這邊就今天的質詢也在提出一些這個問題是不是部長這邊可以很快的簡單的一個回饋我們學習歷程好像有它一定的價值但是怎麼樣與時俱進我們現在請大考中心跟高中端"},{"start":341.252,"end":361.169,"text":"在眼裡看有怎麼樣能夠以實際性包含剛才委員所提的雖然我們的老師大學老師很多人他是很認真在看學生的學習歷程檔案但是AI的一個深層式的AI會不會造成許多更新的一些挑戰我想我們會"},{"start":362.894,"end":379.365,"text":"願意更正視這個問題來做討論來看怎麼樣最重要就是說不要再增加大家太多的負擔然後做的事情如果沒有效度那原本的初衷又達不到然後資源的落差越來越大然後成像差異又更明顯的話"},{"start":380.205,"end":398.549,"text":"我想真的要好好地檢討一下初中然後跟實際的一個執行的狀況跟我們未來即將面臨的挑戰那這個部分部裡面真的要很審慎地做一些檢討跟討論好不好那如果有相關的這個進度是不是可以把一些階段性的報告送給本席的一個研究室好嗎謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168186","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168186","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c1da5973bca625fd9bd67b93b5004dc02d517ee29457ab42dad42bf842d6bf2965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"13:31:58 - 13:38:18","影片長度":"00:06:20","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:31:58+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:38:18+08:00","duration":380,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.25034375000000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.11096875,"end":3.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.35096875,"end":5.076593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.814718750000001,"end":7.236593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.67534375,"end":10.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.98596875,"end":19.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.90971875,"end":20.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.56784375,"end":21.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.22096875,"end":26.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.76096875,"end":40.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.03721875,"end":84.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.41846875,"end":91.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.82221875,"end":94.96971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.78409375000001,"end":96.25221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.20159375,"end":97.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.00721875,"end":98.34471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.61034375000001,"end":121.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.86409375000001,"end":124.06221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.14659375000001,"end":124.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.32784375000001,"end":169.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.88596875000002,"end":172.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.15159375000002,"end":182.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.18534375000002,"end":173.91096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.95596875,"end":183.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.69409375,"end":187.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.23409375,"end":188.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.67659375000002,"end":191.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.22034375,"end":212.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.96409375000002,"end":219.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.46159375000002,"end":214.78221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.03471875000002,"end":221.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.23721875,"end":221.09346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.24534375000002,"end":221.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.76846875,"end":240.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.65159375000002,"end":259.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.93971875,"end":271.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.58346875,"end":324.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.89159375,"end":328.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.48596875000004,"end":334.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.34596875,"end":340.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.77534375000005,"end":341.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.88909375000003,"end":349.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.84971875,"end":351.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.81159375000004,"end":359.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.69221875,"end":359.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.51909375,"end":359.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.83971875000003,"end":373.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.06721875,"end":362.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.20221875000004,"end":362.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.01909375,"end":373.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.40721875,"end":374.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.41534375000003,"end":380.03909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.621,"end":19.006,"text":"張雅琳委員有請張雅琳委員上台詢答謝謝主席 我們有請部長有請部長"},{"start":27.044,"end":40.442,"text":"委員好我想有一件事情還要先跟部長討論一下就是說前幾天我跟台大社監受害的學生已經召開記者會因為法院已經判處加害人的一些相關刑罰那台北的高人法院"},{"start":41.243,"end":64.465,"text":"行政法院更明確的確認台大在性平程序存在違法的問題那我想其實我也可以看到就是教育部在這段時間裡面也做了一些事情也是來要求我們台大但是從114年的10月到115年的3月整個台大還是沒有依法重啟調查那到"},{"start":65.886,"end":90.798,"text":"114年的12月你們又再去持續的要求台大限期召開相關的性評會那我想問一個問題就是說我們目前呢也已經要求台大你們由教育部的性評會做成的決議視同台大性評會的決議要求從請調查我想問一下像這樣子的案例由中央來做決議的案例是多的嗎"},{"start":94.609,"end":121.509,"text":"這次比較少的比較少見對不對是比較少見的對嗎對好那我想就是說在台大在這個案件上面其實已經出現了嚴重的制度失靈跟行政怠惰那我希望這是一個提醒也要請一個懇求我們的教育部應該好好審視我們現在的校園性平法規是不是應該要有一些地方來做檢討避免有類似的情況再度發生可以嗎"},{"start":123.15,"end":150.718,"text":"當然可以的好那再來另外一個問題是有關於特教生的問題就是說我看部長您先看一下您前方的這個表格這個是各地特殊教育他們去分類就是說從11年到113年特教生跟疑似生的一個數據的統計比例可是呢這張的問題在於說我們依據特教法或是特教學生及幼兒鑑定辦法其實沒有所謂的疑似生的一個規範"},{"start":151.838,"end":169.194,"text":"而是我們的縣市政府卻有統計疑似身的規範可是呢在我們現行的法規我們對於疑似身是沒有辦法給予相關的支持和補助所以為什麼會有這樣子的疑似身這樣子的身份又代表什麼樣子的意義我們能實際上給他什麼樣的支持呢"},{"start":171.923,"end":183.789,"text":"好 我們請蘇亮謝謝韋恩 疑似生他有至少兩個情況第一個 他在過程中或是他原來鑑定沒有過等等但是都給予補助"},{"start":184.798,"end":211.498,"text":"我們現在疑似生也都有給予輔助嗎對 這個我們都給予輔助那到底要分特教生跟疑似生的意義到底差別在哪裡疑似生因為他有機會而且很有機會只是在相關的新品或相關的收集資訊上還要比較完善一點但是他看起來其實很多都是需要照顧所以在政府不管中央地方都有給予協助如果有個案我們可以馬上來就文的這個說明來處理"},{"start":212.619,"end":240.074,"text":"今天討論到不是因為個案的問題沒問題就應該是說我們現在這種鑑定疑似生的做法對所以我第二個要跟委員報告您看到的那個將近有十一分之一或十分之一這一個我們現在的策略是既然都照顧我們希望縣市政府其實能夠加快讓他變成真正可以直接就叫做特教的需求的孩子在那個疑似生那個階段不要太久"},{"start":240.914,"end":259.065,"text":"不要太久所以盡量把它完整的把它去可以送到是特教生這一邊來那這一個鑑定的相關的規範或是因為它涉及到專業是不是容我們會後把各縣市的情況整理給委員我們的策略也跟委員做個報告"},{"start":260.246,"end":277.071,"text":"因為我認為一四升其實並沒有得到相對應的足夠的資源我覺得這還是在各縣市上面存在資源上面的落差同時我也看到台北市在一四升的比例數量其實都是比其他縣市要來得更高我覺得這是一個蠻大的問題"},{"start":278.231,"end":307.321,"text":"就變成說像我之前也處理了一些個案就是這些孩子就是永遠都沒有辦法被判定是特殊生可是在醫學判鑑定上面他就是特殊生可是當地的縣市教育局就是不願意給他這樣子的資格所以我不認為一次生的確有得到相對應的補助但這件事情呢我認為是非常重要因為他實際的影響到這個學生他得到的支持以及他可能會造成課間上面老師能不能給予他足夠的正確的支持"},{"start":308.141,"end":323.868,"text":"所以除了這個孩子外學生還有其他的學生以及這個老師其實都會因疑似生沒有辦法得到足夠的支持這一個東西我覺得是要徹底的檢討特別還有各縣市對於疑似生的規範也是非常的不一致"},{"start":325.506,"end":349.401,"text":"所以我想就是這個部分呢等到你們收集好各縣市的資料的時候我們要一起來重新的檢討因為這也是學校的老師跟我反映的問題確實台北市的遺失生有異常的一個多我想這個會後我們來跟台北市跟這個湯局長我們來了解一下到底發生什麼事"},{"start":350.081,"end":374.04,"text":"對 因為你看他跟新北市相比因為他是在評估在鑑定在各方面裡邊流程跟為什麼就比例上來講為什麼他有異常的高沒錯啊他光是新北市都是好幾倍了啦好不好所以我想這個部分人家麻煩部長關心啦畢竟每個都是我們很重要的孩子那對於這個東西我們有機會在半年內有一個延長的方向嗎可以可以喔好 謝謝"},{"start":375.452,"end":379.75,"text":"好謝謝張雅琳委員的質詢請部長回座"}]}},{"id":"17314","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17314","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685bbd6dedb4516fb0fa82c4ca6dd6713f27a9d5466ed3f814041a18c057a2581a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-04-01","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-04-01T08:38:02+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T14:53:00+08:00","duration":22498,"影片長度":"06:14:58","委員發言時間":"08:38:02 - 14:53:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1340.5640937500002,"end":1342.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1342.18409375,"end":1342.3865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1342.3865937500002,"end":1342.6734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1342.6734687500002,"end":1342.7915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1344.56346875,"end":1344.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1344.58034375,"end":1347.5840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1347.5840937500002,"end":1347.6178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1347.8878437500002,"end":1351.0772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1352.9672187500003,"end":1379.3428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1381.0472187500002,"end":1382.9203437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1384.47284375,"end":1389.7715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1389.8897187500002,"end":1397.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1402.20846875,"end":1429.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1429.8328437500002,"end":1483.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1485.06471875,"end":1488.6422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1493.9409687500001,"end":1495.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1495.9490937500002,"end":1520.0297187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1520.4515937500003,"end":1558.6903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1561.55909375,"end":1564.5628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1567.2122187500001,"end":1568.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1569.6084687500002,"end":1570.7390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1573.6922187500002,"end":1575.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1578.4678437500002,"end":1580.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1583.0072187500002,"end":1585.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1585.45409375,"end":1585.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1586.6015937500001,"end":1588.6603437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1590.49971875,"end":1592.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1595.0390937500001,"end":1596.8953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1598.97096875,"end":1600.7259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1602.8522187500002,"end":1605.2147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1608.3365937500002,"end":1611.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1613.7703437500002,"end":1615.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1615.3228437500002,"end":1615.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1615.67721875,"end":1619.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1622.0559687500001,"end":1624.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":1624.9247187500002,"end":1625.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1626.35909375,"end":1628.2828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1630.1222187500002,"end":1632.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1633.2440937500003,"end":1633.3790937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1635.9778437500001,"end":1637.5978437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1640.28096875,"end":1642.6097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1645.93409375,"end":1647.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1650.86159375,"end":1652.7178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1654.7259687500002,"end":1656.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1659.0290937500001,"end":1660.6659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1662.2015937500003,"end":1664.9859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1668.9515937500003,"end":1670.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1670.9934687500001,"end":1673.0184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1677.27096875,"end":1677.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1677.55784375,"end":1679.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1680.4434687500002,"end":1680.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1685.28659375,"end":1687.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1694.43284375,"end":1696.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1696.0190937500001,"end":1696.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1696.0865937500002,"end":1696.3397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1696.3397187500002,"end":1696.4578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1696.4578437500002,"end":1696.5253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1702.5497187500002,"end":1707.8822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1708.20284375,"end":1722.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1723.1540937500001,"end":1725.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1725.78659375,"end":1731.6253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1731.86159375,"end":1770.7247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1771.2478437500001,"end":1813.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1814.4309687500001,"end":1834.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1835.0859687500001,"end":1846.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1846.59471875,"end":1879.4503437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1880.5809687500002,"end":1911.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1912.2553437500003,"end":1918.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1919.0390937500001,"end":1940.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1941.5672187500002,"end":1942.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1943.0184687500002,"end":1943.9972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1945.60034375,"end":1965.3103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1965.6647187500002,"end":1986.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1986.65721875,"end":1999.4315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2000.17409375,"end":2003.3634687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2003.6165937500002,"end":2021.0484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2021.3184687500002,"end":2035.9322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2037.4678437500002,"end":2045.4328437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2046.1247187500003,"end":2047.6097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2047.9134687500002,"end":2059.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2060.82284375,"end":2062.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2062.9997187500003,"end":2063.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2063.94471875,"end":2065.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2065.69971875,"end":2078.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2079.3347187500003,"end":2082.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2083.1990937500004,"end":2088.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2088.8015937500004,"end":2125.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2125.6397187500006,"end":2143.9490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2144.38784375,"end":2145.2653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2145.67034375,"end":2157.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2158.37721875,"end":2160.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2160.43596875,"end":2160.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2161.4990937500006,"end":2167.2028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2167.5740937500004,"end":2172.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2174.22284375,"end":2195.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2196.1434687500005,"end":2212.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2214.31784375,"end":2217.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2218.3172187500004,"end":2222.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2223.05909375,"end":2224.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2224.9997187500003,"end":2253.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2254.09221875,"end":2267.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2267.64284375,"end":2272.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2273.32971875,"end":2285.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2286.0534687500003,"end":2287.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2287.30221875,"end":2289.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2300.12721875,"end":2312.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2313.5428437500004,"end":2318.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2318.8584687500006,"end":2351.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2351.0897187500004,"end":2357.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2357.9747187500006,"end":2361.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2362.91909375,"end":2387.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2387.9615937500002,"end":2390.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2390.61096875,"end":2395.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2396.09534375,"end":2398.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2398.5928437500006,"end":2399.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2399.52096875,"end":2406.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2406.4734687500004,"end":2442.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2442.7040937500005,"end":2475.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2476.72409375,"end":2488.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2489.07659375,"end":2489.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2489.6503437500005,"end":2504.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2504.4834687500006,"end":2523.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2524.34534375,"end":2539.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2540.0897187500004,"end":2568.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2568.8447187500005,"end":2569.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2570.80221875,"end":2583.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2584.2009687500004,"end":2593.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2593.9715937500005,"end":2618.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2618.47409375,"end":2619.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2619.50346875,"end":2622.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2624.0428437500004,"end":2625.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2626.5065937500003,"end":2641.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2641.55909375,"end":2646.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2647.09409375,"end":2660.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2660.94846875,"end":2665.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2676.4734687500004,"end":2684.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2685.0965937500005,"end":2768.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2768.59409375,"end":2770.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2770.1465937500006,"end":2790.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2790.71721875,"end":2800.4034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2800.7409687500003,"end":2804.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2804.70659375,"end":2805.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2806.02284375,"end":2810.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2811.7772187500004,"end":2823.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2824.21409375,"end":2855.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2855.87159375,"end":2873.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2874.7040937500005,"end":2877.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2877.5897187500004,"end":2895.8653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2896.06784375,"end":2898.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2898.5653437500005,"end":2902.2947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2902.6659687500005,"end":2905.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2913.5672187500004,"end":2915.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2915.7272187500002,"end":2917.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2925.2615937500004,"end":2925.8690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2925.8690937500005,"end":2976.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2976.8990937500002,"end":2989.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2989.79159375,"end":3006.2109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3006.9197187500004,"end":3019.2722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3020.26784375,"end":3022.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3022.5290937500004,"end":3027.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3027.7097187500003,"end":3039.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3039.1847187500007,"end":3049.7315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3041.2265937500006,"end":3041.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3049.5459687500006,"end":3056.3972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3056.73471875,"end":3115.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3114.34596875,"end":3119.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3118.86846875,"end":3118.9190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3118.9190937500007,"end":3118.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3119.3240937500004,"end":3121.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3122.4122187500006,"end":3140.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3124.53846875,"end":3124.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3124.8253437500007,"end":3124.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3140.6540937500004,"end":3167.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3168.34596875,"end":3184.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3185.00159375,"end":3186.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3187.3640937500004,"end":3212.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3213.68909375,"end":3222.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3222.5822187500007,"end":3228.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3228.57284375,"end":3229.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3229.0284687500007,"end":3230.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3230.90159375,"end":3234.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3235.2384687500007,"end":3262.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3261.2428437500002,"end":3263.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3263.03159375,"end":3265.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3263.0822187500007,"end":3263.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3263.26784375,"end":3263.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3266.4403437500005,"end":3267.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3269.1572187500005,"end":3275.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3277.5947187500005,"end":3281.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3282.25221875,"end":3289.9472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3288.95159375,"end":3292.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3292.91721875,"end":3295.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3295.8534687500005,"end":3296.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3296.9334687500004,"end":3298.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3297.76034375,"end":3300.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3300.40971875,"end":3302.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3304.18971875,"end":3324.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3325.82346875,"end":3378.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3377.30909375,"end":3378.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3378.2372187500005,"end":3378.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3378.99659375,"end":3380.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3379.6884687500005,"end":3381.7472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3381.88221875,"end":3415.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3416.2228437500007,"end":3416.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3417.3365937500002,"end":3445.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3445.8553437500004,"end":3460.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3460.30034375,"end":3470.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3471.08346875,"end":3483.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3474.88034375,"end":3475.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3475.0322187500005,"end":3475.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3475.9772187500002,"end":3476.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3476.02784375,"end":3476.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3483.26721875,"end":3518.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3500.8340937500006,"end":3501.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3502.9772187500002,"end":3503.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3518.7215937500005,"end":3521.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3518.9072187500005,"end":3519.2615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3520.67909375,"end":3542.3634687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3542.98784375,"end":3572.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3573.59909375,"end":3627.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3599.68784375,"end":3599.7384687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3599.7384687500007,"end":3599.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3599.75534375,"end":3600.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3622.72221875,"end":3622.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3622.7390937500004,"end":3623.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3623.68409375,"end":3626.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3627.5653437500005,"end":3658.9022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3627.5822187500007,"end":3627.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3659.2565937500003,"end":3670.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3672.5203437500004,"end":3672.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3673.11096875,"end":3673.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3673.7859687500004,"end":3703.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3704.4647187500004,"end":3707.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3707.5528437500006,"end":3709.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3710.03346875,"end":3713.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3713.8809687500006,"end":3726.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3726.06471875,"end":3731.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3726.1659687500005,"end":3726.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3732.3590937500003,"end":3742.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3742.0622187500003,"end":3768.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3769.04534375,"end":3777.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3776.4197187500004,"end":3797.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3791.3203437500006,"end":3791.5734687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3796.9734687500004,"end":3802.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3802.0865937500002,"end":3805.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3805.32659375,"end":3805.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3805.7147187500004,"end":3806.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3806.42346875,"end":3807.7228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3809.0897187500004,"end":3811.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3819.07971875,"end":3824.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3825.1378437500007,"end":3828.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3834.7565937500003,"end":3834.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3835.27971875,"end":3835.9040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3836.35971875,"end":3846.8728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3865.9415937500007,"end":3925.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3926.5397187500002,"end":3937.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3929.05409375,"end":3929.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3935.31471875,"end":3935.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3935.33159375,"end":3935.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3937.42409375,"end":3943.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3943.2459687500004,"end":3943.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3944.19096875,"end":3947.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3947.54909375,"end":3947.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3947.8359687500006,"end":3960.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3957.4209687500006,"end":3957.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3960.03659375,"end":3960.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3960.2390937500004,"end":3972.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3965.09909375,"end":3965.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3965.4872187500005,"end":3965.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3973.2159687500007,"end":3974.4815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3973.35096875,"end":3973.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3974.5322187500005,"end":3994.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3995.40659375,"end":3997.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3997.8703437500008,"end":4012.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4012.65284375,"end":4037.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4037.3409687500007,"end":4051.1784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4041.1378437500007,"end":4042.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4050.1153437500006,"end":4050.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4050.7059687500005,"end":4051.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4051.22909375,"end":4051.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4052.0897187500004,"end":4065.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4065.6572187500005,"end":4065.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4065.97784375,"end":4066.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4066.0284687500007,"end":4066.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4066.0622187500003,"end":4066.2140937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4066.2140937500008,"end":4066.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4067.5303437500006,"end":4098.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4097.9559687500005,"end":4101.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4100.45346875,"end":4115.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4102.309718750001,"end":4102.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4115.30346875,"end":4124.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4124.16284375,"end":4128.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4127.706593749999,"end":4158.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4160.325968749999,"end":4165.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4162.38471875,"end":4162.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4162.401593750001,"end":4162.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4162.435343749999,"end":4162.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4165.439093749999,"end":4168.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4168.56096875,"end":4173.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4171.00784375,"end":4171.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4172.999093750001,"end":4201.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4176.71159375,"end":4176.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4176.89721875,"end":4176.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4202.64846875,"end":4215.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4207.23846875,"end":4207.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4207.491593750001,"end":4207.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4214.78159375,"end":4214.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4215.372218750001,"end":4231.487843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4218.10596875,"end":4218.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4223.82659375,"end":4224.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4230.1209687499995,"end":4230.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4231.47096875,"end":4236.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4237.46159375,"end":4237.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4238.35596875,"end":4240.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4240.634093750001,"end":4242.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4242.8447187500005,"end":4244.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4252.5478437500005,"end":4252.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4252.56471875,"end":4252.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4252.80096875,"end":4252.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4256.935343749999,"end":4257.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4257.407843749999,"end":4258.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4258.57221875,"end":4267.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4273.169093750001,"end":4274.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4282.99034375,"end":4283.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4283.057843750001,"end":4283.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4285.47096875,"end":4286.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4287.25971875,"end":4288.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4289.0653437500005,"end":4306.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4306.9697187500005,"end":4307.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4308.555968750001,"end":4341.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4343.520968750001,"end":4363.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4362.825968749999,"end":4363.112843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4363.062218749999,"end":4398.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4392.087218750001,"end":4394.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4395.9178437499995,"end":4396.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4398.21284375,"end":4400.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4400.59221875,"end":4477.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4478.6053437499995,"end":4479.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4480.259093750001,"end":4480.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4481.0184687500005,"end":4481.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4481.6259687500005,"end":4484.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4484.69721875,"end":4497.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4496.59409375,"end":4500.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4497.43784375,"end":4504.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4500.036593750001,"end":4500.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4501.437218749999,"end":4501.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4501.4540937500005,"end":4501.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4503.090968750001,"end":4507.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4505.21721875,"end":4506.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4508.11971875,"end":4510.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4509.11534375,"end":4509.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4510.70159375,"end":4513.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4513.6884687500005,"end":4516.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4516.202843749999,"end":4516.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4516.8778437500005,"end":4521.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4521.75471875,"end":4528.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4529.196593750001,"end":4539.878468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4536.132218750001,"end":4591.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4539.878468749999,"end":4539.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4539.91221875,"end":4539.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4591.7353437500005,"end":4654.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4656.366593750001,"end":4667.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4667.72346875,"end":4671.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4671.4022187499995,"end":4674.034718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4672.88721875,"end":4675.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4674.220343749999,"end":4677.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4675.46909375,"end":4678.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4678.4559687500005,"end":4693.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4693.69409375,"end":4695.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4697.59221875,"end":4698.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4705.05096875,"end":4705.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4705.253468750001,"end":4706.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4706.35034375,"end":4707.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4707.48096875,"end":4708.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4715.83409375,"end":4724.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4724.30534375,"end":4729.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4729.5028437500005,"end":4729.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4729.99221875,"end":4731.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4732.0340937500005,"end":4733.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4732.97909375,"end":4734.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4733.333468750001,"end":4734.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4734.90284375,"end":4735.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4736.0165937500005,"end":4739.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4739.17221875,"end":4739.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4739.59409375,"end":4785.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4785.7303437499995,"end":4786.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4786.962218750001,"end":4793.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4794.184718750001,"end":4802.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4804.05659375,"end":4814.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4816.24034375,"end":4817.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4817.97846875,"end":4819.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4822.770968750001,"end":4829.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4830.263468749999,"end":4831.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4833.99284375,"end":4844.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4844.30346875,"end":4845.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4845.82221875,"end":4846.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4846.85159375,"end":4874.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4875.269093750001,"end":4895.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4895.95784375,"end":4896.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4899.99096875,"end":4901.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4900.9022187499995,"end":4905.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4905.374093750001,"end":4906.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4908.10784375,"end":4908.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4908.1415937500005,"end":4908.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4908.175343750001,"end":4908.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4908.24284375,"end":4908.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4908.29346875,"end":4908.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4908.39471875,"end":4909.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4909.00221875,"end":4910.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4910.234093749999,"end":4918.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4919.39721875,"end":4925.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4924.5947187500005,"end":4924.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4925.573468750001,"end":4925.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4925.607218749999,"end":4925.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4925.6747187500005,"end":4926.079718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4926.34971875,"end":4929.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4940.92971875,"end":4950.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4946.17784375,"end":4946.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4946.194718750001,"end":4946.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4946.430968750001,"end":4946.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4946.481593750001,"end":4946.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4950.16034375,"end":4951.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4958.142218749999,"end":4958.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4958.81721875,"end":4982.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4982.44221875,"end":4983.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4983.28596875,"end":4987.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4987.589093750001,"end":4988.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4988.567843750001,"end":4991.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4991.31846875,"end":4994.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4993.545968750001,"end":4993.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4994.794718749999,"end":5000.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5000.8865937499995,"end":5003.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5003.68784375,"end":5008.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5006.151593750001,"end":5006.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5008.210343750001,"end":5025.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5025.2372187500005,"end":5025.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5025.52409375,"end":5033.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5033.2528437500005,"end":5037.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5040.458468750001,"end":5040.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5042.2978437500005,"end":5106.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5107.13159375,"end":5116.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5116.311593750001,"end":5122.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5122.97721875,"end":5124.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5124.47909375,"end":5176.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5176.92659375,"end":5187.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5187.692843750001,"end":5239.532843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5240.1572187500005,"end":5241.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5241.827843749999,"end":5247.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5249.337218750001,"end":5251.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5251.98659375,"end":5272.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5259.512843750001,"end":5259.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5259.5634687500005,"end":5259.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5266.532843749999,"end":5266.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5266.56659375,"end":5267.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5268.67596875,"end":5268.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5270.700968749999,"end":5270.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5272.18596875,"end":5282.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5280.741593750001,"end":5281.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5282.41221875,"end":5285.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5285.60159375,"end":5301.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5302.22346875,"end":5306.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5304.2147187499995,"end":5304.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5307.38721875,"end":5308.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5308.112843750001,"end":5338.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5338.302218750001,"end":5349.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5342.77409375,"end":5342.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5348.96721875,"end":5362.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5362.635968750001,"end":5363.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5363.78346875,"end":5406.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5408.16471875,"end":5409.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5409.126593749999,"end":5410.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5410.42596875,"end":5420.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5417.850968750001,"end":5418.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5420.1122187500005,"end":5512.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5512.722218750001,"end":5520.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5520.9403437500005,"end":5542.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5530.390343749999,"end":5530.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5530.79534375,"end":5530.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5532.364718750001,"end":5532.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5536.870343750001,"end":5537.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5538.47346875,"end":5538.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5542.23659375,"end":5548.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5548.4803437499995,"end":5556.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5551.484093749999,"end":5551.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5557.154093749999,"end":5576.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5562.30096875,"end":5562.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5568.3084687499995,"end":5568.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5568.747218750001,"end":5568.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5571.227843750001,"end":5571.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5571.2615937499995,"end":5571.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5574.2147187499995,"end":5574.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5576.03721875,"end":5583.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5585.0653437500005,"end":5588.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5588.153468750001,"end":5612.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5613.229718750001,"end":5638.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5638.727843750001,"end":5653.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5646.30471875,"end":5646.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5646.33846875,"end":5646.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5646.608468750001,"end":5646.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5646.6590937500005,"end":5646.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5646.76034375,"end":5646.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5646.96284375,"end":5647.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5653.763468749999,"end":5660.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5661.6103437500005,"end":5664.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5663.87159375,"end":5666.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5665.03596875,"end":5667.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5666.30159375,"end":5667.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5667.90471875,"end":5672.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5669.794718749999,"end":5670.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5672.005343750001,"end":5672.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5672.91659375,"end":5682.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5685.555968750001,"end":5685.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5686.062218749999,"end":5692.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5689.538468750001,"end":5689.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5689.55534375,"end":5689.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5689.97721875,"end":5690.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5692.79534375,"end":5699.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5692.913468750001,"end":5693.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5699.714093750001,"end":5708.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5704.47284375,"end":5704.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5708.3709687499995,"end":5742.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5742.323468750001,"end":5750.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5751.975968750001,"end":5752.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5752.61721875,"end":5781.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5782.55346875,"end":5793.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5793.77534375,"end":5794.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5794.60221875,"end":5798.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5797.28534375,"end":5805.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5805.368468750001,"end":5807.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5807.78159375,"end":5817.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5814.3290937500005,"end":5818.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5818.64909375,"end":5867.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5820.184718750001,"end":5821.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5866.624718749999,"end":5868.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5868.05909375,"end":5892.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5871.0965937500005,"end":5871.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5874.62346875,"end":5875.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5875.28159375,"end":5875.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5887.212218750001,"end":5887.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5893.60784375,"end":5895.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5896.071593750001,"end":5897.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5899.64909375,"end":5903.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5909.50409375,"end":5910.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5910.95534375,"end":5912.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5912.997218750001,"end":5914.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5926.69971875,"end":5928.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5928.72471875,"end":5934.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5935.08659375,"end":5936.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5937.179093750001,"end":5941.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5941.769093750001,"end":5943.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5944.114718750001,"end":5950.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5950.341593749999,"end":5958.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5958.9647187499995,"end":5975.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5976.177218750001,"end":5976.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5977.29096875,"end":5981.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5982.218468749999,"end":5983.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5984.108468750001,"end":5992.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5993.69346875,"end":6004.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6004.8309687500005,"end":6008.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6008.72909375,"end":6018.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6019.444718750001,"end":6025.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6025.671593749999,"end":6049.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6049.41471875,"end":6061.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6062.50971875,"end":6064.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6064.60221875,"end":6075.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6075.75659375,"end":6087.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6088.0584687499995,"end":6096.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6097.55909375,"end":6098.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6101.946593750001,"end":6102.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6102.925343750001,"end":6105.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6105.7772187499995,"end":6106.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6106.09784375,"end":6110.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6110.9072187500005,"end":6116.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6116.762843750001,"end":6119.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6120.1209687499995,"end":6131.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6130.83659375,"end":6140.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6132.3553437499995,"end":6132.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6136.202843749999,"end":6136.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6139.37534375,"end":6139.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6140.759093750001,"end":6142.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6141.77159375,"end":6147.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6148.09971875,"end":6152.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6152.841593749999,"end":6157.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6157.17846875,"end":6174.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6157.583468750001,"end":6158.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6158.950343750001,"end":6159.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6159.591593749999,"end":6159.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6167.91096875,"end":6168.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6175.33596875,"end":6178.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6179.014718750001,"end":6184.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6184.026593750001,"end":6190.860968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6185.59596875,"end":6188.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6190.84409375,"end":6201.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6199.534718750001,"end":6202.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6204.68159375,"end":6206.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6208.42784375,"end":6219.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6209.64284375,"end":6209.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6209.82846875,"end":6209.845343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6211.93784375,"end":6216.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6219.21096875,"end":6223.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6222.9403437500005,"end":6222.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6222.95721875,"end":6223.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6223.868468750001,"end":6225.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6224.155343750001,"end":6226.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6226.028468750001,"end":6226.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6226.28159375,"end":6227.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6229.2684687500005,"end":6235.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6233.571593750001,"end":6243.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6243.7303437499995,"end":6244.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6245.147843750001,"end":6245.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6246.34596875,"end":6260.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6260.841593749999,"end":6276.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6276.467843750001,"end":6300.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6279.505343750001,"end":6280.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6301.51034375,"end":6316.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6316.394093750001,"end":6337.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6316.529093749999,"end":6316.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6317.32221875,"end":6317.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6329.657843750001,"end":6329.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6330.7040937500005,"end":6331.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6334.12971875,"end":6361.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6340.94721875,"end":6344.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6361.8553437499995,"end":6362.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6361.99034375,"end":6362.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6362.935343749999,"end":6365.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6366.61409375,"end":6372.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6372.975968750001,"end":6381.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6378.359093749999,"end":6390.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6390.4247187500005,"end":6393.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6394.727843750001,"end":6395.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6395.4872187500005,"end":6395.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6396.7528437500005,"end":6398.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6399.11534375,"end":6403.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6400.43159375,"end":6401.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6401.03909375,"end":6401.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6401.96721875,"end":6402.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6402.034718750001,"end":6403.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6403.41846875,"end":6411.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6406.2197187500005,"end":6406.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6406.27034375,"end":6406.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6406.52346875,"end":6406.860968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6407.36721875,"end":6407.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6407.384093750001,"end":6410.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6411.974093750001,"end":6429.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6430.0809687500005,"end":6434.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6434.890343749999,"end":6439.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6435.042218750001,"end":6442.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6442.669718749999,"end":6458.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6449.993468750001,"end":6451.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6458.97096875,"end":6462.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6462.784718750001,"end":6463.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6466.56471875,"end":6475.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6476.50409375,"end":6485.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6487.6415937500005,"end":6489.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6487.74284375,"end":6487.860968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6489.075968749999,"end":6495.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6496.3153437500005,"end":6501.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6502.42409375,"end":6503.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6504.0947187500005,"end":6511.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6511.6884687500005,"end":6513.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6514.08471875,"end":6523.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6522.96096875,"end":6524.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6524.294093750001,"end":6524.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6524.749718749999,"end":6524.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6524.7665937500005,"end":6531.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6532.64721875,"end":6554.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6556.18784375,"end":6558.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6558.0272187499995,"end":6559.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6560.08596875,"end":6565.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6565.6209687499995,"end":6579.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6579.57659375,"end":6581.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6581.02784375,"end":6586.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6586.64721875,"end":6589.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6589.93784375,"end":6600.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6601.09221875,"end":6602.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6602.3240937499995,"end":6602.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6602.96534375,"end":6603.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6603.134093750001,"end":6616.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6617.46096875,"end":6619.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6620.1103437500005,"end":6621.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6628.22721875,"end":6631.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6634.167218750001,"end":6642.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6643.397843750001,"end":6645.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6646.36784375,"end":6647.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6648.44346875,"end":6648.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6650.147843750001,"end":6650.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6652.69596875,"end":6655.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6656.155343750001,"end":6659.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6659.81721875,"end":6662.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6663.546593749999,"end":6669.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6669.030968749999,"end":6671.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6671.27534375,"end":6671.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6671.5115937499995,"end":6678.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6679.27409375,"end":6682.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6683.69534375,"end":6691.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6692.55471875,"end":6696.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6698.22471875,"end":6701.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6702.47721875,"end":6702.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6703.28721875,"end":6704.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6704.468468749999,"end":6707.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6707.87721875,"end":6710.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6710.2059687500005,"end":6710.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6711.134093750001,"end":6717.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6717.90096875,"end":6717.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6718.6434687500005,"end":6734.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6734.944718750001,"end":6741.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6741.509093750001,"end":6744.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6744.546593749999,"end":6746.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6746.807843750001,"end":6749.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6750.67221875,"end":6755.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6756.325343750001,"end":6763.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6763.80096875,"end":6766.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6767.007218750001,"end":6775.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6775.680968750001,"end":6781.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6781.94159375,"end":6783.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6784.439093750001,"end":6787.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6788.74221875,"end":6794.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6794.1590937500005,"end":6794.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6794.22659375,"end":6804.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6805.27971875,"end":6806.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6806.5790937500005,"end":6808.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6808.637843750001,"end":6810.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6811.42221875,"end":6812.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6812.4178437499995,"end":6813.126593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6813.362843750001,"end":6815.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6816.16409375,"end":6820.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6821.31096875,"end":6825.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6826.55909375,"end":6827.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6827.807843750001,"end":6829.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6829.394093750001,"end":6837.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6838.18596875,"end":6841.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6841.79721875,"end":6843.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6843.99096875,"end":6846.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6847.0115937499995,"end":6855.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6855.702218750001,"end":6858.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6859.060343749999,"end":6860.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6860.46096875,"end":6861.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6861.642218750001,"end":6865.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6866.58659375,"end":6867.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6868.679093750001,"end":6868.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6868.965968750001,"end":6883.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6883.630343750001,"end":6900.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6886.22909375,"end":6887.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6901.88909375,"end":6906.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6907.28909375,"end":6920.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6920.940968750001,"end":6927.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6928.60221875,"end":6934.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6935.048468750001,"end":6935.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6935.892218750001,"end":6939.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6940.04346875,"end":6950.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6950.843468750001,"end":6954.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6954.33659375,"end":6957.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6957.745343750001,"end":6960.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6961.120343750001,"end":6965.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6965.187218750001,"end":6973.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6974.333468750001,"end":6977.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6979.075343750001,"end":6988.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6989.385968750001,"end":6993.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6994.904093749999,"end":6996.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6996.86159375,"end":6996.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6997.5028437500005,"end":6997.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6999.71346875,"end":7035.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7035.25221875,"end":7035.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7035.977843750001,"end":7036.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7036.028468750001,"end":7036.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7036.214093750001,"end":7036.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7036.46721875,"end":7036.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7036.5009687500005,"end":7036.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7036.534718750001,"end":7036.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7037.243468750001,"end":7044.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7043.50409375,"end":7043.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7044.39846875,"end":7044.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7044.63471875,"end":7048.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7045.79909375,"end":7045.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7046.575343750001,"end":7047.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7048.482218749999,"end":7050.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7050.929093750001,"end":7051.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7056.63284375,"end":7058.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7060.109093750001,"end":7062.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7063.56846875,"end":7065.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7065.49221875,"end":7066.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7067.16284375,"end":7071.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7072.394093750001,"end":7076.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7077.01784375,"end":7079.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7080.00471875,"end":7081.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7081.540343750001,"end":7089.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7090.669718749999,"end":7096.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7097.21721875,"end":7101.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7101.8915937500005,"end":7102.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7103.49471875,"end":7109.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7110.227843750001,"end":7118.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7119.458468750001,"end":7128.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7128.11534375,"end":7128.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7128.14909375,"end":7134.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7134.7303437499995,"end":7142.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7142.374718750001,"end":7148.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7149.3778437500005,"end":7149.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7150.79534375,"end":7152.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7152.80346875,"end":7153.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7154.45721875,"end":7156.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7157.64659375,"end":7181.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7181.72721875,"end":7186.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7186.51971875,"end":7188.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7189.08471875,"end":7191.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7190.670968750001,"end":7192.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7192.071593750001,"end":7196.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7192.27409375,"end":7194.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7196.999093750001,"end":7199.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7198.09596875,"end":7201.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7199.88471875,"end":7203.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7203.85034375,"end":7204.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7205.97659375,"end":7210.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7211.241593750001,"end":7215.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7216.067843750001,"end":7218.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7219.79721875,"end":7222.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7222.64909375,"end":7225.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7226.78346875,"end":7227.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7228.217843750001,"end":7231.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7231.89659375,"end":7232.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7233.9384687500005,"end":7238.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7238.96721875,"end":7253.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7252.33221875,"end":7256.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7256.12909375,"end":7260.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7256.145968750001,"end":7256.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7261.3603437500005,"end":7268.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7269.07221875,"end":7275.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7275.67034375,"end":7280.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7281.694718750001,"end":7283.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7283.669093750001,"end":7288.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7287.179093750001,"end":7287.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7288.815968750001,"end":7288.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7288.84971875,"end":7305.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7305.67409375,"end":7307.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7307.68221875,"end":7312.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7312.50846875,"end":7314.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7315.124093750001,"end":7315.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7316.40659375,"end":7319.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7319.68034375,"end":7321.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7321.84034375,"end":7322.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7322.97096875,"end":7323.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7323.67971875,"end":7323.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7323.696593750001,"end":7325.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7333.51784375,"end":7334.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7335.47534375,"end":7336.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7336.75784375,"end":7337.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7337.6522187499995,"end":7342.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7342.495343750001,"end":7342.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7343.03534375,"end":7343.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7343.77784375,"end":7344.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7344.7059687500005,"end":7346.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7346.984093750001,"end":7347.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7347.06846875,"end":7348.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7349.144093750001,"end":7349.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7349.5322187500005,"end":7350.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7350.747218750001,"end":7351.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7351.84409375,"end":7352.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7353.227843750001,"end":7353.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7355.809718750001,"end":7357.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7358.104718750001,"end":7358.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7361.02409375,"end":7394.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7395.735968750001,"end":7411.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7411.32846875,"end":7428.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7429.09784375,"end":7431.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7431.81471875,"end":7444.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7444.960343750001,"end":7447.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7448.36909375,"end":7461.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7461.700343750001,"end":7478.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7478.895968750001,"end":7486.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7486.6415937500005,"end":7488.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7489.42596875,"end":7493.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7493.796593750001,"end":7495.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7496.057843750001,"end":7498.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7498.960343750001,"end":7500.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7501.08659375,"end":7501.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7502.419718749999,"end":7503.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7503.9384687500005,"end":7505.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7506.368468750001,"end":7507.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7508.59596875,"end":7510.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7510.435343749999,"end":7517.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7517.759093750001,"end":7521.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7522.65284375,"end":7528.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7529.385968750001,"end":7531.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7531.815968750001,"end":7557.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7557.972218750001,"end":7567.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7568.046593750001,"end":7573.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7573.311593750001,"end":7581.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7582.305968750001,"end":7582.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7583.30159375,"end":7600.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7600.9697187500005,"end":7610.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7610.68971875,"end":7611.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7612.124093750001,"end":7613.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7614.419093750001,"end":7619.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7619.83596875,"end":7620.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7621.97909375,"end":7623.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7623.126593750001,"end":7626.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7627.210343750001,"end":7628.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7630.264718750001,"end":7632.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7632.6103437500005,"end":7634.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7635.85034375,"end":7669.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7669.026593750001,"end":7677.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7678.79721875,"end":7679.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7679.7928437499995,"end":7686.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7686.52596875,"end":7691.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7691.40284375,"end":7691.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7691.419718749999,"end":7692.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7692.0272187499995,"end":7692.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7692.735968750001,"end":7693.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7693.022843750001,"end":7693.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7693.967843750001,"end":7694.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7694.03534375,"end":7699.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7699.31721875,"end":7699.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7699.57034375,"end":7735.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7735.530968750001,"end":7772.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7748.946593750001,"end":7749.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7749.09846875,"end":7749.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7749.11534375,"end":7749.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7772.03159375,"end":7781.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7779.929093750001,"end":7788.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7782.696593750001,"end":7783.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7788.029093749999,"end":7795.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7789.88534375,"end":7789.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7791.6572187500005,"end":7792.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7795.60596875,"end":7799.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7800.600968750001,"end":7803.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7803.80721875,"end":7818.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7818.927218750001,"end":7819.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7820.22659375,"end":7821.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7821.9647187499995,"end":7822.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7823.196593750001,"end":7834.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7834.722218750001,"end":7849.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7849.825343750001,"end":7851.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7852.93034375,"end":7856.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7857.25034375,"end":7858.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7858.60034375,"end":7858.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7859.612843750001,"end":7866.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7867.915343750001,"end":7875.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7875.44159375,"end":7875.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7875.458468750001,"end":7875.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7875.94784375,"end":7884.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7884.503468750001,"end":7885.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7887.70971875,"end":7898.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7898.96534375,"end":7899.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7900.9228437500005,"end":7908.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7909.09034375,"end":7909.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7910.17034375,"end":7912.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7912.5497187500005,"end":7913.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7913.3934687500005,"end":7914.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7914.7772187499995,"end":7916.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7917.02159375,"end":7917.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7920.43034375,"end":7920.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7921.29096875,"end":7921.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7923.552218750001,"end":7924.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7925.35784375,"end":7925.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7925.96534375,"end":7932.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7932.15846875,"end":7934.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7934.55471875,"end":7941.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7943.009093750001,"end":7947.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7947.5653437500005,"end":7947.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7948.37534375,"end":7949.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7950.43409375,"end":7951.345343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7952.3915937500005,"end":7953.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7953.134093750001,"end":7970.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7970.68409375,"end":7973.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7973.7215937500005,"end":7982.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7983.91409375,"end":7987.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7987.93034375,"end":7989.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7989.90471875,"end":7994.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7995.507218750001,"end":7996.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7997.1103437500005,"end":7999.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7999.624718750001,"end":8001.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8002.03784375,"end":8006.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8006.69534375,"end":8007.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8007.62346875,"end":8008.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8008.872218750001,"end":8009.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8011.065968750001,"end":8011.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8012.39909375,"end":8013.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8014.120343750001,"end":8014.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8015.014718750001,"end":8015.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8016.16221875,"end":8017.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8020.026593750001,"end":8020.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8020.296593750001,"end":8029.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8030.16846875,"end":8032.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8033.08784375,"end":8036.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8036.935343750001,"end":8042.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8042.13284375,"end":8042.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8042.77409375,"end":8042.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8042.97659375,"end":8067.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8068.37346875,"end":8083.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8083.5272187499995,"end":8084.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8084.03346875,"end":8099.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8099.87909375,"end":8101.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8101.110968750001,"end":8102.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8104.401593750001,"end":8106.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8106.76409375,"end":8108.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8109.413468750001,"end":8110.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8111.2528437500005,"end":8112.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8113.61534375,"end":8114.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8114.35784375,"end":8115.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8115.91034375,"end":8116.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8116.51784375,"end":8118.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8118.880343750001,"end":8119.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8120.2303437499995,"end":8120.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8123.385968750001,"end":8125.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8126.102843750001,"end":8127.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8128.1278437500005,"end":8128.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8129.44409375,"end":8130.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8130.929093750001,"end":8132.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8132.26221875,"end":8132.279093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8133.07221875,"end":8133.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8133.089093750001,"end":8133.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8135.77221875,"end":8155.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8155.870343750001,"end":8159.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8160.1903437500005,"end":8161.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8161.962218750001,"end":8166.450968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8167.075343750001,"end":8167.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8167.733468750001,"end":8169.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8170.028468750001,"end":8171.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8173.74096875,"end":8173.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8173.75784375,"end":8193.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8186.58284375,"end":8186.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8186.59971875,"end":8186.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8191.42596875,"end":8205.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8205.499718750001,"end":8208.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8208.452843750001,"end":8208.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8208.503468750001,"end":8213.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8208.55409375,"end":8208.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8213.38034375,"end":8213.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8213.80221875,"end":8213.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8213.81909375,"end":8213.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8213.97096875,"end":8231.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8231.79096875,"end":8241.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8242.523468750001,"end":8244.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8244.88596875,"end":8245.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8245.40909375,"end":8252.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8253.137843750003,"end":8265.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8265.895343750002,"end":8267.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8268.19034375,"end":8268.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8269.70909375,"end":8271.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8271.531593750002,"end":8271.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8271.97034375,"end":8273.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8274.07971875,"end":8283.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8283.20909375,"end":8284.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8285.48721875,"end":8288.524718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8892.329093750002,"end":8893.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8895.214718750001,"end":8896.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8897.003468750001,"end":8898.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8908.64721875,"end":8913.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8912.629718750002,"end":8914.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8919.852218750002,"end":8919.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8919.86909375,"end":8920.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8920.86471875,"end":8944.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8944.962218750003,"end":8963.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8963.64284375,"end":8969.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8970.22409375,"end":8980.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8981.344718750002,"end":8985.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8985.614093750002,"end":8986.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8986.829093750002,"end":8987.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8987.402843750002,"end":8989.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8990.929718750001,"end":8991.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8991.351593750001,"end":8991.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8991.38534375,"end":8992.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8997.274718750003,"end":8999.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8999.957843750002,"end":9007.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9008.10846875,"end":9010.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9010.69034375,"end":9020.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9012.85034375,"end":9012.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9020.76471875,"end":9029.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9029.92784375,"end":9031.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9032.20596875,"end":9032.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9032.813468750002,"end":9037.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9037.69034375,"end":9043.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9041.16659375,"end":9041.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9042.837218750003,"end":9045.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9045.26721875,"end":9079.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9079.995968750001,"end":9120.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9120.546593750001,"end":9157.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9157.789718750002,"end":9172.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9173.63534375,"end":9176.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9176.74034375,"end":9182.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9179.06909375,"end":9179.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9181.48221875,"end":9191.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9191.843468750001,"end":9195.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9192.315968750001,"end":9192.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9194.62784375,"end":9194.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9195.72471875,"end":9201.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9201.79971875,"end":9203.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9203.04846875,"end":9204.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9206.575343750003,"end":9209.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9209.039093750001,"end":9209.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9209.477843750003,"end":9212.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9212.92034375,"end":9216.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9215.839718750001,"end":9219.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9216.734093750001,"end":9217.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9219.805343750002,"end":9220.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9220.24409375,"end":9222.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9222.35346875,"end":9244.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9245.25284375,"end":9252.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9249.387218750002,"end":9250.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9253.53846875,"end":9255.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9256.47471875,"end":9261.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9261.13221875,"end":9261.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9261.43596875,"end":9288.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9289.465343750002,"end":9289.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9291.422843750002,"end":9299.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9299.52284375,"end":9306.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9306.019718750002,"end":9306.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9306.914093750001,"end":9317.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9307.30221875,"end":9307.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9307.31909375,"end":9307.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9307.36971875,"end":9307.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9307.977218750002,"end":9308.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9317.511593750001,"end":9322.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9320.464718750001,"end":9325.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9325.965968750003,"end":9352.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9355.446593750003,"end":9357.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9358.079093750002,"end":9370.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9364.305968750003,"end":9364.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9364.339718750001,"end":9364.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9364.42409375,"end":9364.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9371.359718750002,"end":9374.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9374.81909375,"end":9375.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9376.000343750002,"end":9377.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9377.02971875,"end":9377.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9378.97034375,"end":9379.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9379.054718750001,"end":9380.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9380.82659375,"end":9381.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9382.227218750002,"end":9382.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9383.18909375,"end":9383.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9384.184718750003,"end":9387.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9387.88034375,"end":9423.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9423.63846875,"end":9423.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9423.75659375,"end":9449.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9450.047843750002,"end":9454.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9454.82346875,"end":9465.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9465.62346875,"end":9467.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9465.89346875,"end":9465.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9468.660968750002,"end":9490.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9490.83471875,"end":9506.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9495.762218750002,"end":9496.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9506.17409375,"end":9507.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9507.64221875,"end":9525.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9525.816593750002,"end":9526.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9526.10346875,"end":9535.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9535.90784375,"end":9544.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9545.50971875,"end":9547.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9547.872218750003,"end":9556.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9550.386593750001,"end":9550.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9550.58909375,"end":9550.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9550.656593750002,"end":9550.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9556.69784375,"end":9556.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9556.79909375,"end":9584.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9584.27159375,"end":9584.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9584.406593750002,"end":9626.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9621.531593750002,"end":9621.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9626.83034375,"end":9636.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9636.077843750001,"end":9646.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9644.481593750003,"end":9645.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9646.82721875,"end":9654.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9651.46784375,"end":9652.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9655.112843750001,"end":9657.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9655.855343750001,"end":9656.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9656.445968750002,"end":9671.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9671.12721875,"end":9673.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9671.54909375,"end":9672.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9673.03409375,"end":9677.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9677.82659375,"end":9678.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9678.36659375,"end":9684.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9679.919093750003,"end":9680.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9684.05346875,"end":9684.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9684.35721875,"end":9693.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9684.37409375,"end":9684.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9687.040343750003,"end":9687.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9691.96784375,"end":9692.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9692.929718750001,"end":9706.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9698.76846875,"end":9699.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9703.375343750002,"end":9712.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9709.09596875,"end":9710.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9711.340343750002,"end":9711.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9712.11659375,"end":9714.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9713.58471875,"end":9714.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9714.546593750001,"end":9718.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9715.99784375,"end":9716.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9718.91721875,"end":9722.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9723.254093750002,"end":9743.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9744.094718750002,"end":9750.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9750.777218750001,"end":9752.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9752.042843750001,"end":9753.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9753.39284375,"end":9755.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9754.844093750002,"end":9756.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9756.81846875,"end":9757.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9757.324718750002,"end":9760.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9761.57721875,"end":9764.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9765.15471875,"end":9766.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9767.16284375,"end":9774.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9770.94284375,"end":9772.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9774.65534375,"end":9779.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9779.59971875,"end":9782.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9784.527218750001,"end":9790.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9787.075343750003,"end":9787.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9790.602218750002,"end":9792.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9792.711593750002,"end":9799.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9796.829093750002,"end":9833.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9833.65034375,"end":9833.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9833.937218750001,"end":9835.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9834.426593750002,"end":9835.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9835.81034375,"end":9839.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9840.02909375,"end":9843.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9841.73346875,"end":9842.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9843.77534375,"end":9845.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9845.648468750001,"end":9845.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9845.665343750003,"end":9845.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9846.964718750001,"end":9854.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9855.790343750003,"end":9855.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9855.80721875,"end":9859.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9860.22846875,"end":9861.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9862.219718750002,"end":9865.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9863.535968750002,"end":9863.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9864.34596875,"end":9865.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9865.544093750003,"end":9879.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9879.75284375,"end":9880.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9880.54596875,"end":9889.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9888.88221875,"end":9898.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9898.500968750002,"end":9911.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9899.327843750001,"end":9899.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9899.969093750002,"end":9900.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9909.63846875,"end":9912.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9912.254093750002,"end":9912.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9913.199093750001,"end":9913.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9913.688468750002,"end":9914.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9915.02159375,"end":9916.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9916.253468750001,"end":9920.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9920.03346875,"end":9922.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9922.480343750001,"end":9922.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9922.800968750002,"end":9926.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9926.42909375,"end":9926.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9926.918468750002,"end":9948.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9940.671593750001,"end":9940.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9940.688468750002,"end":9940.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9940.97534375,"end":9941.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9948.61971875,"end":9950.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9950.13846875,"end":9951.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9951.45471875,"end":9961.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9961.49534375,"end":9967.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9967.671593750001,"end":9974.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9972.86909375,"end":9973.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9974.370968750001,"end":9977.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9977.914718750002,"end":9985.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9983.247218750003,"end":9987.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9985.390343750001,"end":9985.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9988.27596875,"end":9989.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9989.89596875,"end":10002.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10000.71284375,"end":10001.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10002.41721875,"end":10005.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10003.800968750002,"end":10003.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10003.969718750002,"end":10004.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10004.47596875,"end":10004.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10005.285968750002,"end":10020.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10019.933468750001,"end":10021.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10020.97971875,"end":10022.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10022.49846875,"end":10031.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10033.534718750001,"end":10034.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10035.35721875,"end":10036.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10037.348468750002,"end":10038.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10050.747218750003,"end":10057.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10057.46346875,"end":10057.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10063.11659375,"end":10063.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10064.58471875,"end":10074.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10074.97971875,"end":10080.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10080.953468750002,"end":10081.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10081.18971875,"end":10089.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10094.06534375,"end":10094.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10095.70221875,"end":10098.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10096.680968750003,"end":10096.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10098.621593750002,"end":10100.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10100.039093750001,"end":10107.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10100.34284375,"end":10100.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10110.704093750002,"end":10114.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10110.805343750002,"end":10110.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10114.500968750002,"end":10126.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10126.06034375,"end":10130.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10130.97096875,"end":10133.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10133.97471875,"end":10133.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10133.99159375,"end":10142.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10134.04221875,"end":10135.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10144.47096875,"end":10144.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10145.53409375,"end":10148.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10147.27221875,"end":10148.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10148.16659375,"end":10148.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10148.183468750001,"end":10149.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10149.820343750001,"end":10159.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10159.75971875,"end":10160.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10161.61596875,"end":10163.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10163.97846875,"end":10164.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10165.24409375,"end":10193.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10193.05409375,"end":10195.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10196.175968750002,"end":10196.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10198.065968750001,"end":10198.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10198.16721875,"end":10198.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10198.20096875,"end":10198.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10198.26846875,"end":10199.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10198.352843750003,"end":10198.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10199.972843750002,"end":10200.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10200.74909375,"end":10205.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10206.520343750002,"end":10208.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10209.355343750001,"end":10219.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10223.547218750002,"end":10223.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10224.30659375,"end":10224.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10224.390968750002,"end":10224.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10224.610343750002,"end":10227.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10227.512843750003,"end":10230.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10230.85409375,"end":10240.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10241.012843750003,"end":10247.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10248.285968750002,"end":10252.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10252.757843750001,"end":10253.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10253.669093750003,"end":10255.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10256.149718750003,"end":10260.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10261.262843750003,"end":10266.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10262.74784375,"end":10262.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10262.96721875,"end":10263.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10263.23721875,"end":10263.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10266.848468750002,"end":10272.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10267.101593750001,"end":10267.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10272.484718750002,"end":10286.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10287.06471875,"end":10290.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10292.160968750002,"end":10294.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10294.995968750001,"end":10328.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10329.62346875,"end":10331.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10332.15471875,"end":10333.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10334.196593750003,"end":10337.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10338.68534375,"end":10344.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10357.079093750002,"end":10370.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10370.882843750001,"end":10388.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10388.85471875,"end":10407.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10410.04971875,"end":10424.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10424.96721875,"end":10430.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10430.62034375,"end":10432.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10431.66659375,"end":10451.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10452.54096875,"end":10453.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10453.38471875,"end":10454.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10453.519718750002,"end":10461.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10461.99096875,"end":10463.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10463.20596875,"end":10463.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10463.425343750001,"end":10467.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10467.644093750001,"end":10468.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10468.11659375,"end":10470.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10470.78284375,"end":10476.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10477.144718750002,"end":10477.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10477.684718750003,"end":10486.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10488.231593750003,"end":10489.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10489.93596875,"end":10490.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10490.762843750003,"end":10494.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10492.83846875,"end":10493.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10493.83409375,"end":10501.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10501.27596875,"end":10501.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10502.085968750001,"end":10504.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10505.17409375,"end":10511.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10511.14784375,"end":10531.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10532.039093750001,"end":10534.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10534.80659375,"end":10544.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10544.57721875,"end":10544.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10544.644718750002,"end":10544.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10546.180343750002,"end":10547.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10547.78346875,"end":10551.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10551.884093750003,"end":10589.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10590.949718750002,"end":10593.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10593.902843750002,"end":10612.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10611.503468750001,"end":10611.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10611.53721875,"end":10612.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10612.02659375,"end":10612.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10612.97159375,"end":10621.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10613.612843750001,"end":10613.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10621.172843750002,"end":10624.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10625.273468750001,"end":10632.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10633.086593750002,"end":10635.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10635.465968750003,"end":10650.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10650.67034375,"end":10651.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10650.687218750001,"end":10651.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10651.227218750002,"end":10651.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10651.969718750002,"end":10656.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10657.015343750001,"end":10658.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10658.989718750003,"end":10661.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10662.516593750002,"end":10663.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10663.613468750002,"end":10678.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10677.332843750002,"end":10690.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10690.54596875,"end":10691.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10691.406593750002,"end":10693.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10694.207843750002,"end":10695.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10696.047218750002,"end":10699.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10700.28284375,"end":10717.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10718.102843750003,"end":10719.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10719.790343750003,"end":10739.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10725.12284375,"end":10725.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10737.390968750002,"end":10738.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10739.500343750002,"end":10739.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10739.770343750002,"end":10740.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10739.80409375,"end":10759.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10759.919093750003,"end":10783.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10772.777843750002,"end":10774.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10774.48221875,"end":10774.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10783.30784375,"end":10786.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10786.547843750002,"end":10786.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10786.71659375,"end":10792.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10787.18909375,"end":10787.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10791.15471875,"end":10791.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10792.335968750001,"end":10804.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10795.829093750002,"end":10796.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10804.33409375,"end":10807.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10807.77659375,"end":10813.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10813.41284375,"end":10823.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10824.094718750002,"end":10828.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10828.313468750002,"end":10832.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10832.852843750003,"end":10834.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10835.14784375,"end":10838.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10835.367218750001,"end":10835.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10836.12659375,"end":10844.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10844.83409375,"end":10851.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10851.80346875,"end":10880.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10880.17034375,"end":10889.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10890.12659375,"end":10894.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10894.497218750003,"end":10905.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10903.91346875,"end":10912.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10908.503468750001,"end":10908.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10912.43534375,"end":10919.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10919.843468750001,"end":10919.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10920.09659375,"end":10938.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10938.422843750002,"end":10938.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10939.114718750003,"end":10941.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10941.29159375,"end":10941.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":10941.325343750003,"end":10941.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10941.679718750001,"end":10941.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10942.01721875,"end":10943.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10944.93659375,"end":10945.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10945.274093750002,"end":10945.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10945.324718750002,"end":10945.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10945.544093750003,"end":10945.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10952.98596875,"end":10971.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10971.88596875,"end":10977.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10978.129718750002,"end":10982.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10982.618468750003,"end":10986.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10987.360343750002,"end":10987.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10987.96784375,"end":10988.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10988.49096875,"end":11012.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11013.077843750001,"end":11025.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11025.51471875,"end":11047.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11047.671593750001,"end":11052.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11053.172843750002,"end":11056.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11057.15534375,"end":11062.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11063.145968750003,"end":11101.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11101.97534375,"end":11102.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11102.363468750002,"end":11103.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11104.118468750003,"end":11135.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11135.067218750002,"end":11135.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11135.13471875,"end":11135.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11135.18534375,"end":11135.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11135.30346875,"end":11135.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11135.421593750001,"end":11135.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11135.472218750001,"end":11135.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11135.62409375,"end":11150.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11150.11971875,"end":11160.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11160.34596875,"end":11165.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11165.914718750002,"end":11168.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11168.817218750002,"end":11172.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11172.664718750002,"end":11173.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11173.609718750002,"end":11174.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11174.031593750002,"end":11174.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11174.706593750001,"end":11175.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11174.84159375,"end":11175.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11175.33096875,"end":11176.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11176.49534375,"end":11178.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11178.90846875,"end":11221.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11202.195968750002,"end":11204.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11208.945968750002,"end":11209.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11221.973468750002,"end":11227.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11226.985343750002,"end":11249.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11249.294093750003,"end":11255.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11255.031593750002,"end":11276.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11274.89346875,"end":11284.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11285.32221875,"end":11302.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11302.73721875,"end":11314.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11314.02659375,"end":11320.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11320.320968750002,"end":11320.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11320.65846875,"end":11337.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11331.05346875,"end":11334.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11337.972218750001,"end":11338.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11338.00596875,"end":11338.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11338.10721875,"end":11339.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11340.21659375,"end":11344.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11345.852843750003,"end":11346.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11346.156593750002,"end":11351.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11352.02909375,"end":11353.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11352.974093750003,"end":11353.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11353.024718750003,"end":11366.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11366.777843750002,"end":11370.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11367.80721875,"end":11370.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11370.54096875,"end":11371.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11372.07659375,"end":11376.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11377.35846875,"end":11377.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11377.375343750002,"end":11384.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11384.78346875,"end":11389.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11390.554718750001,"end":11391.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11391.145343750002,"end":11391.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11393.406593750002,"end":11396.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11396.54534375,"end":11398.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11400.54471875,"end":11404.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11405.77596875,"end":11408.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11408.03721875,"end":11408.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11408.72909375,"end":11408.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11408.745968750001,"end":11417.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11415.90096875,"end":11421.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11423.612843750001,"end":11424.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11425.367843750002,"end":11431.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11431.223468750002,"end":11431.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11431.83096875,"end":11432.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11432.050343750001,"end":11442.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11442.934718750003,"end":11443.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11443.609718750002,"end":11443.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11444.01471875,"end":11444.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11444.85846875,"end":11445.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11446.00596875,"end":11447.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11448.469718750002,"end":11450.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11453.97096875,"end":11465.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11465.95221875,"end":11471.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11468.297843750002,"end":11469.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11470.42409375,"end":11480.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11480.734718750002,"end":11482.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11482.962218750003,"end":11482.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11482.97909375,"end":11483.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11483.19846875,"end":11484.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11483.65409375,"end":11483.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11483.70471875,"end":11484.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11484.07596875,"end":11488.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11488.547843750002,"end":11514.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11512.628468750001,"end":11517.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11517.84284375,"end":11536.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11536.72596875,"end":11536.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11536.86096875,"end":11537.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11536.894718750002,"end":11537.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11537.19846875,"end":11574.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11571.809093750002,"end":11584.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11584.80284375,"end":11612.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11611.49909375,"end":11623.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11614.620968750001,"end":11618.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11623.125968750002,"end":11645.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11643.325343750003,"end":11644.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11645.02971875,"end":11666.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11666.96721875,"end":11667.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11668.367843750002,"end":11670.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11670.54471875,"end":11677.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11678.712218750003,"end":11679.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11679.269093750001,"end":11679.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11680.14659375,"end":11681.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11681.969093750002,"end":11684.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11684.331593750001,"end":11695.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11695.97534375,"end":11716.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11716.02284375,"end":11730.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11731.109093750001,"end":11732.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11732.94846875,"end":11733.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11733.40409375,"end":11733.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11733.640343750001,"end":11744.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11738.297843750002,"end":11740.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11740.96409375,"end":11741.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11741.132843750001,"end":11741.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11745.28409375,"end":11747.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11747.730968750002,"end":11749.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11749.722218750001,"end":11755.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11757.906593750002,"end":11786.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11787.31971875,"end":11789.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11795.183468750001,"end":11799.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11799.60471875,"end":11801.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11801.86596875,"end":11803.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11803.55346875,"end":11804.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11805.359093750001,"end":11806.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11806.81034375,"end":11807.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11807.35034375,"end":11809.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11810.35409375,"end":11811.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11811.77159375,"end":11812.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11813.442218750002,"end":11818.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11821.06971875,"end":11821.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11821.238468750002,"end":11821.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11821.812218750001,"end":11822.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11822.149718750003,"end":11822.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11822.16659375,"end":11822.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11823.617843750002,"end":11829.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11830.266593750002,"end":11834.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11836.324718750002,"end":11837.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11837.60721875,"end":11837.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11837.87721875,"end":11844.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11844.441593750002,"end":11846.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11846.80409375,"end":11850.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11851.32659375,"end":11852.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11853.317843750003,"end":11853.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11854.43159375,"end":11855.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11856.08534375,"end":11856.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11858.29596875,"end":11864.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11872.62284375,"end":11876.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11877.094718750002,"end":11877.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11886.274718750003,"end":11898.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11886.39284375,"end":11886.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11899.16721875,"end":11921.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11921.914718750002,"end":11952.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11953.285343750002,"end":11961.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11962.27971875,"end":11968.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11967.426593750002,"end":11968.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11968.641593750002,"end":11970.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11970.61596875,"end":12010.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11972.97846875,"end":11973.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11977.956593750001,"end":11978.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12010.829093750002,"end":12010.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12010.879718750002,"end":12040.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12040.10721875,"end":12040.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12040.461593750002,"end":12079.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12079.628468750001,"end":12086.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12086.53034375,"end":12088.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12087.52596875,"end":12087.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12088.808468750001,"end":12097.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12098.089718750001,"end":12118.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12118.64346875,"end":12160.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12121.52909375,"end":12121.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12123.739718750003,"end":12124.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12129.325343750003,"end":12130.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12138.066593750002,"end":12138.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12138.167843750001,"end":12138.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12143.58471875,"end":12144.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12160.98284375,"end":12161.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12161.168468750002,"end":12164.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12161.20221875,"end":12161.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12164.813468750002,"end":12199.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12179.528468750003,"end":12179.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12187.66221875,"end":12188.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12188.10096875,"end":12188.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12188.117843750002,"end":12188.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12199.96409375,"end":12242.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12206.12346875,"end":12206.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12206.59596875,"end":12206.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12208.536593750003,"end":12209.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12223.69034375,"end":12224.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12231.38534375,"end":12231.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12240.93659375,"end":12272.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12243.51846875,"end":12244.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12249.82971875,"end":12250.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12252.394718750002,"end":12253.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12255.75284375,"end":12256.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12257.84534375,"end":12259.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12262.48596875,"end":12262.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12266.738468750002,"end":12266.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12266.97471875,"end":12267.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12272.813468750002,"end":12278.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12279.090968750003,"end":12282.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12283.039718750002,"end":12285.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12285.300968750002,"end":12287.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12287.359718750002,"end":12298.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12298.31159375,"end":12298.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12298.429718750001,"end":12298.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12298.51409375,"end":12319.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12298.547843750002,"end":12298.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12298.800968750002,"end":12298.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12303.644093750001,"end":12304.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12319.75971875,"end":12356.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12323.10096875,"end":12323.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12328.93971875,"end":12329.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12329.024093750002,"end":12329.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12347.738468750002,"end":12347.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12355.41659375,"end":12356.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12356.125343750002,"end":12368.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12365.96346875,"end":12366.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12368.933468750001,"end":12369.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12369.152843750002,"end":12389.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12388.457843750002,"end":12388.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12390.80346875,"end":12394.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12394.414718750002,"end":12394.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12394.634093750003,"end":12396.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12396.70971875,"end":12398.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12399.46034375,"end":12407.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12407.020343750002,"end":12409.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12409.51784375,"end":12424.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12422.44409375,"end":12422.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12422.460968750001,"end":12422.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12424.43534375,"end":12437.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12425.59971875,"end":12425.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12425.61659375,"end":12426.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12429.12659375,"end":12429.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12438.019718750002,"end":12438.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12438.441593750002,"end":12455.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12442.54221875,"end":12442.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12443.75721875,"end":12444.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12453.477218750002,"end":12453.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12456.177218750003,"end":12471.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12464.125343750002,"end":12464.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12464.226593750001,"end":12464.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12464.378468750001,"end":12464.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12464.51346875,"end":12464.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12470.68971875,"end":12482.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12482.70471875,"end":12482.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12482.907218750002,"end":12515.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12482.92409375,"end":12483.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12494.83784375,"end":12494.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12494.922218750002,"end":12495.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12495.00659375,"end":12495.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12495.074093750001,"end":12495.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12495.411593750003,"end":12495.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12496.930343750002,"end":12496.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12496.94721875,"end":12496.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12496.980968750002,"end":12497.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12502.38096875,"end":12502.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12507.645968750003,"end":12507.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12507.66284375,"end":12508.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12508.08471875,"end":12508.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12508.169093750003,"end":12508.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12509.215343750002,"end":12509.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12509.333468750003,"end":12509.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12509.907218750002,"end":12509.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12516.30284375,"end":12528.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12521.58471875,"end":12521.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12521.618468750003,"end":12521.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12521.871593750002,"end":12522.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12527.575343750003,"end":12529.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12529.81971875,"end":12531.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12531.81096875,"end":12557.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12554.879093750002,"end":12565.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12559.840343750002,"end":12560.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12565.493468750003,"end":12565.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12566.20221875,"end":12569.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12581.035343750002,"end":12583.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12583.92096875,"end":12586.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12586.840343750002,"end":12588.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12599.867843750002,"end":12600.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12601.04909375,"end":12608.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":12610.718468750001,"end":12616.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":12617.87346875,"end":12619.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12619.965968750003,"end":12633.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12633.550343750001,"end":12640.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12641.312843750002,"end":12641.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12641.515343750001,"end":12641.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12641.734718750002,"end":12642.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12642.29159375,"end":12651.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12651.72471875,"end":12653.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12653.85096875,"end":12655.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12656.06159375,"end":12658.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12658.559093750002,"end":12658.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12659.11596875,"end":12660.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12660.31409375,"end":12661.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12661.815968750001,"end":12663.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12664.195343750001,"end":12664.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12665.12346875,"end":12667.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12668.92034375,"end":12673.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12673.628468750001,"end":12674.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12674.67471875,"end":12675.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12675.737843750001,"end":12676.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12676.93596875,"end":12677.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12678.387218750002,"end":12681.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12682.386593750001,"end":12682.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12683.21346875,"end":12683.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12683.972843750002,"end":12685.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12686.504093750002,"end":12699.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12700.375343750002,"end":12700.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12700.965968750003,"end":12706.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12707.85096875,"end":12734.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12722.954093750002,"end":12723.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12723.12284375,"end":12723.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12735.289718750002,"end":12739.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12739.42409375,"end":12739.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12740.53784375,"end":12741.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12742.343468750001,"end":12743.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12744.01409375,"end":12748.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12751.13534375,"end":12752.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12752.704718750003,"end":12752.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12752.755343750003,"end":12753.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12753.261593750001,"end":12756.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12756.012218750002,"end":12757.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12757.699718750002,"end":12760.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12762.05346875,"end":12764.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12764.46659375,"end":12767.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12767.723468750002,"end":12777.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12777.780968750001,"end":12780.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12780.750968750002,"end":12782.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12782.52284375,"end":12783.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12783.34971875,"end":12783.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12784.007843750001,"end":12785.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12785.03721875,"end":12796.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12796.96784375,"end":12797.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12797.625968750002,"end":12797.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12797.71034375,"end":12797.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12797.929718750001,"end":12797.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12797.946593750003,"end":12799.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12800.089718750001,"end":12817.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12813.04971875,"end":12813.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12818.297843750002,"end":12819.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12820.42409375,"end":12822.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12822.837218750003,"end":12823.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12824.01846875,"end":12825.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12825.891593750002,"end":12830.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12830.430968750003,"end":12835.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12835.71284375,"end":12862.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12862.98284375,"end":12876.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12876.972218750001,"end":12878.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12878.659718750001,"end":12879.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12879.38534375,"end":12886.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12885.07221875,"end":12886.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12886.995968750001,"end":12887.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12887.92409375,"end":12891.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12892.075343750003,"end":12895.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12895.99034375,"end":12896.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12896.800343750001,"end":12919.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12920.020343750002,"end":12920.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12920.03721875,"end":12925.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12925.58909375,"end":12925.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12925.94346875,"end":12932.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12932.59221875,"end":12950.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12951.35721875,"end":12957.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12958.59659375,"end":12961.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12961.718468750001,"end":12964.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12964.85721875,"end":12967.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12966.49409375,"end":12967.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12967.067843750003,"end":12975.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12975.84284375,"end":12976.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12977.277218750001,"end":12984.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12985.10721875,"end":12988.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12989.055968750003,"end":12992.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12993.375968750002,"end":13009.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13009.79534375,"end":13012.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13010.200343750003,"end":13010.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13012.157843750003,"end":13012.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13012.37721875,"end":13013.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13012.42784375,"end":13012.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13014.081593750001,"end":13014.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13015.65096875,"end":13029.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13029.707843750002,"end":13035.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13035.934718750003,"end":13038.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13038.85409375,"end":13048.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13048.742843750002,"end":13052.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13053.61971875,"end":13054.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13055.492843750002,"end":13057.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13058.142218750003,"end":13087.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13088.26409375,"end":13088.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13088.280968750001,"end":13092.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13089.95159375,"end":13090.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13093.52909375,"end":13096.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13096.043468750002,"end":13098.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13097.629718750002,"end":13114.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13114.285343750002,"end":13114.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13115.230343750001,"end":13117.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13117.829093750002,"end":13119.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13120.714718750001,"end":13123.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13123.634093750003,"end":13126.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13126.82346875,"end":13127.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13127.66721875,"end":13130.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13130.637218750002,"end":13134.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13135.277843750002,"end":13137.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13137.977843750003,"end":13147.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13148.49096875,"end":13154.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13154.61659375,"end":13155.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13155.899093750002,"end":13157.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13158.04221875,"end":13158.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13159.18971875,"end":13190.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13190.965343750002,"end":13192.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13192.68659375,"end":13193.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13195.335968750001,"end":13199.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13199.520968750003,"end":13214.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13214.99534375,"end":13215.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13216.26096875,"end":13218.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13218.79221875,"end":13219.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13219.703468750002,"end":13220.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13220.648468750001,"end":13221.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13221.89721875,"end":13222.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13223.11221875,"end":13236.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13237.08471875,"end":13254.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13254.70221875,"end":13255.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13256.06909375,"end":13258.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13258.70159375,"end":13260.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13261.148468750001,"end":13261.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13262.312843750002,"end":13263.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13263.359093750001,"end":13264.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13265.468468750001,"end":13266.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13269.231593750003,"end":13270.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13270.581593750001,"end":13271.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13273.09596875,"end":13274.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13274.564093750003,"end":13279.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13280.79096875,"end":13282.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13283.102843750003,"end":13288.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13289.65034375,"end":13297.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13297.767218750003,"end":13299.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13299.47159375,"end":13299.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13300.332218750002,"end":13301.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13301.142218750003,"end":13303.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13303.26846875,"end":13305.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13305.85034375,"end":13306.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13307.554718750001,"end":13308.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13308.921593750001,"end":13310.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13310.946593750003,"end":13311.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13311.874718750001,"end":13314.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13314.54096875,"end":13321.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13321.98284375,"end":13323.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13323.754718750002,"end":13332.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13332.816593750002,"end":13334.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13334.976593750001,"end":13336.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13337.187218750001,"end":13338.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13339.38096875,"end":13340.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13341.743468750003,"end":13342.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13342.87409375,"end":13346.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13346.114093750002,"end":13347.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13348.08846875,"end":13348.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13348.965968750003,"end":13350.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13351.024718750003,"end":13354.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13354.78784375,"end":13355.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13355.88471875,"end":13358.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13359.546593750001,"end":13361.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13361.672843750002,"end":13363.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13363.47846875,"end":13367.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13367.781593750002,"end":13380.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13381.382843750001,"end":13383.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":13386.00659375,"end":13390.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":13391.254718750002,"end":13400.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":13401.126593750003,"end":13409.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13405.14284375,"end":13406.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13406.67846875,"end":13406.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13409.564093750003,"end":13412.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":13411.133468750002,"end":13416.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13416.297218750002,"end":13424.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13424.44784375,"end":13427.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13427.265968750002,"end":13428.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13429.105343750001,"end":13430.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13431.079718750003,"end":13431.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13432.395968750003,"end":13433.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13433.56034375,"end":13435.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13435.872218750003,"end":13438.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13438.977218750002,"end":13444.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13445.052218750003,"end":13450.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13451.07659375,"end":13458.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13459.159718750001,"end":13460.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13460.610968750003,"end":13466.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13466.399093750002,"end":13475.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13475.376593750003,"end":13476.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13477.60409375,"end":13478.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13479.409718750001,"end":13481.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13482.07596875,"end":13482.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13483.324718750002,"end":13487.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13488.910343750002,"end":13489.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13489.028468750003,"end":13489.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13489.332218750002,"end":13489.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13489.551593750002,"end":13489.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13489.720343750003,"end":13491.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13492.20096875,"end":13497.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13511.10096875,"end":13514.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13514.40846875,"end":13515.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13523.31846875,"end":13523.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13524.094718750002,"end":13544.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13545.32346875,"end":13556.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13556.27534375,"end":13560.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13560.696593750003,"end":13561.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13561.911593750003,"end":13564.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13565.87721875,"end":13576.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13568.020343750002,"end":13568.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13576.457843750002,"end":13595.610968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13596.285968750002,"end":13602.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13603.96409375,"end":13606.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13606.883468750002,"end":13619.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13620.36659375,"end":13626.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13627.251593750003,"end":13630.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13631.90909375,"end":13634.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13635.199718750002,"end":13639.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13639.958468750003,"end":13646.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13646.92784375,"end":13647.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13647.265343750001,"end":13652.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13652.277218750001,"end":13658.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13658.74034375,"end":13661.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13662.33471875,"end":13663.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13665.422843750002,"end":13667.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13669.60784375,"end":13670.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13671.548468750003,"end":13672.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13672.18971875,"end":13672.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13673.235968750003,"end":13680.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13681.09971875,"end":13696.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13695.899093750002,"end":13699.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13699.24034375,"end":13704.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13704.640343750001,"end":13708.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13709.145968750003,"end":13714.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13715.71034375,"end":13719.220343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13719.473468750002,"end":13721.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13720.148468750001,"end":13722.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13721.987843750001,"end":13723.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13723.675343750001,"end":13724.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13725.160343750002,"end":13725.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13725.210968750001,"end":13727.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13728.56909375,"end":13730.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13730.30721875,"end":13734.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13734.52596875,"end":13739.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13735.47096875,"end":13736.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13739.68971875,"end":13740.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13740.550343750001,"end":13747.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13749.477218750002,"end":13749.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13749.899093750002,"end":13754.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13756.530968750001,"end":13760.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13760.142218750003,"end":13766.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13765.74471875,"end":13767.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13767.26346875,"end":13769.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13768.309718750003,"end":13771.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13771.54971875,"end":13777.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13776.46034375,"end":13781.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13780.375343750002,"end":13783.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13784.50971875,"end":13788.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13789.21784375,"end":13795.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13796.406593750002,"end":13804.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13804.793468750002,"end":13806.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13807.965968750003,"end":13810.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13811.03721875,"end":13812.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13813.754093750002,"end":13824.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13824.351593750001,"end":13828.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13830.156593750002,"end":13835.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13836.704093750002,"end":13838.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13839.066593750002,"end":13856.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13858.017218750003,"end":13861.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13861.898468750001,"end":13865.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13865.745968750001,"end":13866.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13868.09159375,"end":13872.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13873.204718750003,"end":13875.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13875.128468750001,"end":13877.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13878.030968750001,"end":13884.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13885.590968750003,"end":13889.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13890.180968750003,"end":13891.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13892.070968750002,"end":13898.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13899.664718750002,"end":13902.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13903.10721875,"end":13904.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13904.64284375,"end":13915.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13915.965968750003,"end":13921.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13923.05346875,"end":13926.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13926.95159375,"end":13937.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13937.92034375,"end":13939.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13940.282843750003,"end":13941.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13941.91971875,"end":13943.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13944.332843750002,"end":13946.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13947.117218750001,"end":13948.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13950.20534375,"end":13952.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13952.85471875,"end":13954.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13954.74471875,"end":13959.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13960.988468750002,"end":13967.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13968.109718750002,"end":13977.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13979.348468750002,"end":13985.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13986.452843750001,"end":13993.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13994.940968750001,"end":13998.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13999.09221875,"end":14011.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14011.984718750002,"end":14013.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14013.28409375,"end":14017.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14018.093468750001,"end":14023.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14024.759093750003,"end":14031.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14031.863468750002,"end":14034.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14035.457843750002,"end":14041.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14042.157218750002,"end":14050.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14050.40909375,"end":14052.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14052.67034375,"end":14059.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14060.21346875,"end":14062.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14063.132843750001,"end":14065.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14066.254718750002,"end":14067.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14067.773468750001,"end":14070.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14070.321593750003,"end":14072.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14072.751593750003,"end":14074.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14075.282843750003,"end":14076.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14077.61159375,"end":14081.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14082.910343750002,"end":14084.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14085.20534375,"end":14102.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14102.856593750003,"end":14104.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14105.387843750003,"end":14107.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14107.19346875,"end":14114.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14115.68159375,"end":14119.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14120.035343750002,"end":14122.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14122.43159375,"end":14123.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14123.64659375,"end":14124.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14125.33409375,"end":14127.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14127.29159375,"end":14129.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14129.738468750002,"end":14135.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14137.26471875,"end":14138.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14139.120968750001,"end":14140.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14141.719718750002,"end":14143.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14143.559093750002,"end":14150.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14150.96721875,"end":14151.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14155.60784375,"end":14181.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14181.81471875,"end":14184.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14185.67909375,"end":14188.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14190.134093750003,"end":14190.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14192.51346875,"end":14195.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14197.508468750002,"end":14201.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14201.575343750003,"end":14204.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14204.410343750002,"end":14212.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14212.054718750001,"end":14212.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14212.08846875,"end":14214.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14214.636593750001,"end":14218.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14214.754718750002,"end":14215.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14218.16346875,"end":14219.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14219.344718750002,"end":14220.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14221.285343750002,"end":14223.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14223.715343750002,"end":14225.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14226.195968750002,"end":14228.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14228.929718750001,"end":14235.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14235.274718750003,"end":14237.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14237.45159375,"end":14240.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14242.73346875,"end":14243.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14243.56034375,"end":14246.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14246.395343750002,"end":14248.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14249.297843750002,"end":14249.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14249.46659375,"end":14254.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14254.02284375,"end":14256.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14256.030968750001,"end":14256.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14256.55409375,"end":14256.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14256.97596875,"end":14259.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14259.422843750002,"end":14264.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14260.739093750002,"end":14261.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14261.61659375,"end":14261.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14261.65034375,"end":14261.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14263.422218750002,"end":14268.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14268.04596875,"end":14268.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14268.906593750002,"end":14275.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14275.403468750003,"end":14281.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14281.54596875,"end":14282.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14283.65534375,"end":14288.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14288.684093750002,"end":14288.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14289.308468750001,"end":14290.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14291.35034375,"end":14293.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14293.746593750002,"end":14299.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14299.382843750001,"end":14309.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14304.141593750002,"end":14304.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14310.21659375,"end":14319.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14319.88596875,"end":14368.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14369.29596875,"end":14401.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14403.164093750001,"end":14405.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14407.062218750001,"end":14409.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14410.487843750001,"end":14411.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14411.652218750001,"end":14421.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14421.996593750002,"end":14429.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14430.99096875,"end":14436.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14437.234718750002,"end":14441.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14442.094718750002,"end":14444.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14445.030968750001,"end":14446.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14448.203468750002,"end":14453.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14454.46409375,"end":14458.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14459.003468750001,"end":14463.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14463.458468750003,"end":14469.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14469.17909375,"end":14469.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14469.70221875,"end":14469.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14470.309718750003,"end":14473.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14473.769093750001,"end":14478.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14475.794093750003,"end":14476.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14478.257843750001,"end":14480.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14480.856593750003,"end":14487.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14485.767218750003,"end":14489.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14488.062218750001,"end":14489.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14489.749718750001,"end":14497.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14498.49096875,"end":14499.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14500.043468750002,"end":14503.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14503.418468750002,"end":14506.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14508.531593750002,"end":14510.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14508.56534375,"end":14508.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14510.657843750003,"end":14513.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14512.800968750002,"end":14515.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14517.239093750002,"end":14518.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14520.090968750003,"end":14521.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14522.048468750003,"end":14523.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14525.06909375,"end":14529.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14529.76034375,"end":14534.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14529.844718750002,"end":14530.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14534.384093750003,"end":14548.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14548.559093750002,"end":14557.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14557.519718750002,"end":14558.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14559.12284375,"end":14589.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14590.071593750003,"end":14590.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14591.55659375,"end":14599.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14599.487843750001,"end":14608.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14608.90409375,"end":14611.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14612.76846875,"end":14613.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14614.860968750003,"end":14621.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14623.21409375,"end":14626.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14628.934718750003,"end":14633.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14634.90846875,"end":14658.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14658.668468750002,"end":14677.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14678.395343750002,"end":14684.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14684.672843750002,"end":14685.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14685.820343750001,"end":14690.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14691.777218750001,"end":14693.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14693.59971875,"end":14695.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14696.24909375,"end":14702.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14703.657218750002,"end":14703.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14704.58534375,"end":14705.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14708.11221875,"end":14710.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14710.761593750001,"end":14713.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14714.38971875,"end":14715.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14717.140343750001,"end":14718.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14719.13159375,"end":14728.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14729.391593750002,"end":14737.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14737.96409375,"end":14757.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14758.180343750002,"end":14769.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14770.161593750003,"end":14794.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14795.254718750002,"end":14795.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14795.997218750003,"end":14805.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14805.852218750002,"end":14826.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14827.01346875,"end":14829.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14829.39284375,"end":14830.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14831.19846875,"end":14846.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14847.465968750003,"end":14871.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14871.546593750001,"end":14871.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14873.26784375,"end":14890.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14890.969718750002,"end":14893.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14894.47971875,"end":14896.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14897.399093750002,"end":14913.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14914.122218750003,"end":14918.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14919.82596875,"end":14921.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14921.93534375,"end":14925.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14926.42409375,"end":14934.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14935.45221875,"end":14936.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14937.98346875,"end":14941.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14943.012218750002,"end":14948.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14948.564093750003,"end":14949.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14949.390968750002,"end":14954.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14955.33096875,"end":14958.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14959.00971875,"end":14961.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14962.35096875,"end":14963.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14964.46034375,"end":14968.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14969.94471875,"end":14972.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14972.965343750002,"end":14978.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14979.462218750003,"end":14984.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14986.296593750001,"end":14987.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14988.794093750003,"end":14990.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14991.055343750002,"end":14991.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14993.940968750001,"end":14994.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14995.155968750001,"end":14999.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14999.57721875,"end":15002.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15003.32346875,"end":15006.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15007.59284375,"end":15009.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15010.07346875,"end":15014.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15015.76034375,"end":15021.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15022.746593750002,"end":15026.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15026.864093750002,"end":15027.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15028.349093750003,"end":15033.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15034.187843750002,"end":15035.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15036.719093750002,"end":15037.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15038.187218750001,"end":15039.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15042.28784375,"end":15044.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15044.65034375,"end":15047.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15047.13096875,"end":15048.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15049.88159375,"end":15051.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15053.290343750003,"end":15055.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15056.31096875,"end":15060.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15061.930343750002,"end":15066.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15066.722843750002,"end":15070.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15071.12721875,"end":15073.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15074.907218750002,"end":15077.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15077.40471875,"end":15081.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15082.36596875,"end":15091.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15092.06909375,"end":15093.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15094.060343750003,"end":15099.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15100.894718750002,"end":15104.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15104.607218750003,"end":15112.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15115.94721875,"end":15129.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15130.18971875,"end":15138.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15138.930968750003,"end":15140.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15141.344093750002,"end":15150.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15151.739093750002,"end":15153.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15155.856593750003,"end":15156.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15158.55659375,"end":15159.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15161.492843750002,"end":15174.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15174.992843750002,"end":15187.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15187.98659375,"end":15200.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15201.368468750003,"end":15201.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15202.364093750002,"end":15203.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15204.54096875,"end":15205.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15205.536593750003,"end":15205.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15209.62034375,"end":15210.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15210.497843750003,"end":15211.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15212.10096875,"end":15214.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15215.239718750003,"end":15222.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15223.727843750003,"end":15231.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15231.70971875,"end":15232.485968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15232.03034375,"end":15244.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15245.226593750001,"end":15246.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15246.644093750001,"end":15252.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15254.22096875,"end":15255.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15255.58784375,"end":15266.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15266.94471875,"end":15267.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15268.581593750001,"end":15273.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15270.269093750001,"end":15275.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15276.20909375,"end":15282.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15282.874718750001,"end":15286.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15285.06846875,"end":15294.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15288.81471875,"end":15289.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15293.607218750003,"end":15299.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15301.133468750002,"end":15311.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15303.58034375,"end":15304.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15311.190968750001,"end":15311.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15311.477843750003,"end":15316.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15315.24096875,"end":15319.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15319.965968750003,"end":15319.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15319.999718750001,"end":15320.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15320.03346875,"end":15320.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15320.50596875,"end":15320.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15320.52284375,"end":15323.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15322.04159375,"end":15323.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15323.324093750001,"end":15323.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15323.40846875,"end":15338.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15323.425343750001,"end":15323.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15323.560343750003,"end":15323.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15323.965343750002,"end":15324.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15324.977843750003,"end":15326.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15341.66721875,"end":15348.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15348.552218750003,"end":15356.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15357.090968750003,"end":15365.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15365.579093750002,"end":15369.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15369.409718750001,"end":15370.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15370.70909375,"end":15376.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15381.070343750001,"end":15388.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15390.047843750002,"end":15394.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15395.481593750003,"end":15403.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15404.340968750003,"end":15410.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15410.179718750001,"end":15414.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15415.410968750002,"end":15417.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15418.414718750002,"end":15420.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15420.372218750003,"end":15422.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15422.65034375,"end":15425.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15426.51471875,"end":15433.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15434.867843750002,"end":15438.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15439.356593750003,"end":15445.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15445.70159375,"end":15450.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15451.000343750002,"end":15452.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15452.232218750003,"end":15453.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15456.535343750002,"end":15457.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15458.594093750002,"end":15461.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15462.42471875,"end":15464.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15464.500343750002,"end":15469.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15471.149093750002,"end":15472.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15475.435343750003,"end":15478.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15479.13096875,"end":15484.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15485.864093750002,"end":15488.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15490.58909375,"end":15492.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15492.52971875,"end":15494.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15494.90909375,"end":15495.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15499.70159375,"end":15501.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15504.98346875,"end":15507.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15521.132843750001,"end":15523.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15523.69784375,"end":15524.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15529.114718750003,"end":15529.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15529.60409375,"end":15529.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15530.29596875,"end":15531.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15531.679718750001,"end":15534.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15541.500968750002,"end":15545.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15545.719718750002,"end":15548.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15549.63471875,"end":15552.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15552.739718750003,"end":15558.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15559.624718750001,"end":15559.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15559.641593750002,"end":15559.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15559.742843750002,"end":15559.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15559.911593750003,"end":15560.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15560.012843750003,"end":15561.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15561.09284375,"end":15561.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15561.227843750003,"end":15561.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15563.235968750003,"end":15569.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15571.285343750002,"end":15572.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15572.80409375,"end":15573.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15573.64784375,"end":15576.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15577.157843750003,"end":15578.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15581.089718750001,"end":15584.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15582.591593750003,"end":15583.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15584.144093750001,"end":15584.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15584.22846875,"end":15584.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15584.262218750002,"end":15585.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15586.641593750002,"end":15589.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15591.46784375,"end":15601.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15602.200343750003,"end":15609.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15611.262218750002,"end":15612.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15612.595343750003,"end":15617.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15618.079718750003,"end":15621.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15621.488468750002,"end":15625.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15625.53846875,"end":15642.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15642.919718750003,"end":15660.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15660.402218750001,"end":15660.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15661.364093750002,"end":15697.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15697.341593750003,"end":15706.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15706.825343750003,"end":15713.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15713.676593750002,"end":15731.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15732.171593750001,"end":15733.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15733.909718750001,"end":15744.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15734.83784375,"end":15734.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15734.888468750003,"end":15735.782843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15738.938468750002,"end":15739.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15743.157218750002,"end":15748.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15749.265968750002,"end":15754.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15754.817843750003,"end":15765.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15765.90471875,"end":15767.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15767.879093750002,"end":15770.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15770.359718750002,"end":15772.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15772.92471875,"end":15773.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15774.156593750002,"end":15775.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15775.675343750001,"end":15796.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15796.735343750002,"end":15798.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15798.60846875,"end":15802.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15803.485343750002,"end":15804.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15804.750968750002,"end":15809.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15810.032843750003,"end":15822.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15822.638468750003,"end":15823.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15823.684718750003,"end":15825.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15825.86159375,"end":15834.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15834.872843750003,"end":15841.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15841.79159375,"end":15844.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15845.48721875,"end":15855.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15855.645968750003,"end":15856.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15856.97909375,"end":15857.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15857.97471875,"end":15858.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15859.206593750001,"end":15860.657843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15861.113468750002,"end":15863.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15866.226593750001,"end":15879.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15880.148468750001,"end":15919.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15919.21409375,"end":15920.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15921.05346875,"end":15923.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15923.972843750002,"end":15929.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15929.76096875,"end":15930.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15930.58784375,"end":15952.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15953.90909375,"end":15954.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15954.617843750002,"end":15956.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15957.58784375,"end":15959.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15959.629718750002,"end":15962.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15962.414093750001,"end":15966.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15966.278468750003,"end":15967.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15967.915343750003,"end":15971.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15968.050343750001,"end":15968.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15969.113468750002,"end":15969.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15971.138468750003,"end":15972.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15972.910343750002,"end":15976.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15976.99409375,"end":15981.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15982.47846875,"end":15984.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15984.48659375,"end":16001.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16001.024093750002,"end":16005.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16001.04096875,"end":16001.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16005.52971875,"end":16005.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16006.575968750003,"end":16010.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16010.777843750002,"end":16036.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16036.74846875,"end":16045.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16046.164718750002,"end":16052.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16052.30721875,"end":16064.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16065.469718750002,"end":16094.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16094.832218750002,"end":16134.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16126.202843750001,"end":16126.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16126.388468750003,"end":16127.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16128.210968750001,"end":16129.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16131.14721875,"end":16145.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16146.38534375,"end":16149.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16149.70971875,"end":16151.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16150.857218750003,"end":16164.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16151.92034375,"end":16152.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16164.863468750002,"end":16174.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16174.33034375,"end":16178.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16178.785343750002,"end":16182.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16182.801593750002,"end":16183.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16184.03346875,"end":16186.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16187.340968750003,"end":16192.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16192.926593750002,"end":16212.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16214.15534375,"end":16215.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16214.72909375,"end":16215.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16215.47159375,"end":16215.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16215.62346875,"end":16218.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16218.84659375,"end":16233.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16233.375968750002,"end":16234.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16234.523468750001,"end":16244.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16243.703468750002,"end":16245.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16245.880343750003,"end":16247.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16246.859093750001,"end":16248.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16249.187843750002,"end":16286.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16286.700968750003,"end":16297.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16298.26034375,"end":16307.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16307.676593750002,"end":16309.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16309.988468750002,"end":16313.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16313.86971875,"end":16332.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16332.75284375,"end":16337.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16338.50721875,"end":16352.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16359.314093750003,"end":16360.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16372.965968750003,"end":16373.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16374.34971875,"end":16378.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16379.31096875,"end":16400.944718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16401.872843750003,"end":16403.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16403.40846875,"end":16404.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16404.285968750002,"end":16405.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16405.85534375,"end":16407.374093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16407.694718749997,"end":16431.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16432.07909375,"end":16436.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16436.770343750002,"end":16437.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16437.91784375,"end":16440.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16440.668468750002,"end":16441.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16441.022843749997,"end":16448.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16444.24596875,"end":16445.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16445.359718749998,"end":16445.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16445.93346875,"end":16445.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16445.950343750003,"end":16447.030343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16447.030343749997,"end":16447.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16447.890968749998,"end":16447.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16449.662843750004,"end":16455.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16455.754718750002,"end":16458.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16458.842843749997,"end":16459.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16460.496593750002,"end":16466.757218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16468.47846875,"end":16475.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16469.32221875,"end":16471.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16475.12721875,"end":16482.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16482.51846875,"end":16483.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16483.598468750002,"end":16489.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16489.960343749997,"end":16494.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16495.37721875,"end":16497.132218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16497.351593749998,"end":16499.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16500.67596875,"end":16502.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16501.958468750003,"end":16504.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16502.616593749997,"end":16522.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16504.32096875,"end":16504.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16504.725968749997,"end":16504.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16504.793468750002,"end":16505.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16523.153468750003,"end":16526.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16527.169718750003,"end":16528.148468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16528.772843749997,"end":16529.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16531.03409375,"end":16532.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16533.396593750003,"end":16534.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16534.982843750004,"end":16536.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16538.07096875,"end":16541.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16541.732843750004,"end":16542.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16544.09534375,"end":16544.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16545.732218750003,"end":16548.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16549.107218750003,"end":16553.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16549.15784375,"end":16549.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16549.225343750004,"end":16549.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16549.242218749998,"end":16549.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16549.529093750003,"end":16549.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16553.309093750002,"end":16556.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16556.53221875,"end":16561.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16560.36284375,"end":16565.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16566.91034375,"end":16581.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16571.787218750003,"end":16575.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16582.131593750004,"end":16607.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16607.93346875,"end":16611.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16612.43909375,"end":16614.818468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16615.560968750004,"end":16619.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16620.184718750003,"end":16621.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16621.83846875,"end":16623.795968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16624.015343749998,"end":16637.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16637.32971875,"end":16639.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16639.47284375,"end":16643.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16643.910968750002,"end":16644.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16644.872843750003,"end":16645.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16645.90221875,"end":16647.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16647.69096875,"end":16648.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16647.859718749998,"end":16654.812218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16655.18346875,"end":16656.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16657.61346875,"end":16671.788468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16672.514093750004,"end":16673.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16673.661593750003,"end":16684.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16684.71471875,"end":16692.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16692.105968750002,"end":16692.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16692.61221875,"end":16692.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16692.83159375,"end":16702.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16702.804718749998,"end":16709.335343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16710.364718750003,"end":16713.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16713.38534375,"end":16715.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16715.19096875,"end":16718.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16719.224093750003,"end":16719.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16719.61221875,"end":16720.185968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16721.41784375,"end":16722.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16722.700343750003,"end":16723.577843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16724.37096875,"end":16725.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17936.41784375,"end":17937.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17938.037843750004,"end":17940.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17956.380968750003,"end":17971.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17961.89909375,"end":17962.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17971.804718749998,"end":17973.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17976.69846875,"end":17977.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17977.72784375,"end":18012.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18013.40159375,"end":18023.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18023.64471875,"end":18054.154718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18054.96471875,"end":18098.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18098.873468750004,"end":18121.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18121.469093749998,"end":18124.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18124.405343749997,"end":18139.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18140.04846875,"end":18150.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18151.03409375,"end":18176.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18176.66721875,"end":18221.639093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18222.162218750003,"end":18225.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18225.554093749997,"end":18299.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18300.023468749998,"end":18306.554093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18306.621593750002,"end":18306.655343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18306.655343749997,"end":18306.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18306.959093750003,"end":18355.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18355.76159375,"end":18357.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18357.41534375,"end":18407.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18408.411593750003,"end":18408.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18409.356593750003,"end":18426.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18426.95721875,"end":18458.125343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18458.513468750003,"end":18490.694093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18491.47034375,"end":18500.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18501.004718750002,"end":18502.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18502.45596875,"end":18533.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18534.062843749998,"end":18600.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18600.19596875,"end":18635.295968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18635.717843749997,"end":18650.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18651.17534375,"end":18697.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18698.07096875,"end":18713.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18714.11909375,"end":18719.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18720.295343750004,"end":18727.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18727.585343749997,"end":18774.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18774.902843750002,"end":18778.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18777.63659375,"end":18777.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18778.919093750003,"end":18778.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18778.98659375,"end":18780.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18780.03284375,"end":18780.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18800.637218750002,"end":18805.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18810.50909375,"end":18814.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18814.96409375,"end":18817.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18817.512218750002,"end":18817.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18817.866593749997,"end":18817.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18817.88346875,"end":18817.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18817.90034375,"end":18819.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18817.934093750002,"end":18818.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18818.74409375,"end":18819.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18819.16596875,"end":18819.554093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18819.57096875,"end":18819.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18819.60471875,"end":18820.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18827.114093750002,"end":18827.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18828.64971875,"end":18849.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18849.64221875,"end":18880.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18880.692218750002,"end":18888.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18889.19721875,"end":18986.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18937.544093750003,"end":18941.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18987.004718750002,"end":18994.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18994.311593750004,"end":19026.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19026.93096875,"end":19029.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19030.30596875,"end":19040.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19039.92471875,"end":19042.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19044.12659375,"end":19076.897843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19077.03284375,"end":19090.397843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19091.528468750003,"end":19097.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19097.114093750002,"end":19098.835343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19097.890343749998,"end":19101.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19099.864718750003,"end":19104.015968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19104.285968750002,"end":19107.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19107.82971875,"end":19108.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19107.897218750004,"end":19111.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19110.107843750004,"end":19110.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19111.154093750003,"end":19158.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19159.062218749998,"end":19200.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19200.574718750002,"end":19205.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19205.265968749998,"end":19227.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19227.507218749997,"end":19252.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19251.92534375,"end":19308.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19270.605968750002,"end":19271.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19274.26784375,"end":19274.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19308.389093750004,"end":19315.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19310.02596875,"end":19310.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19315.07159375,"end":19315.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19315.358468750004,"end":19333.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19317.248468750004,"end":19317.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19333.76909375,"end":19336.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19336.19909375,"end":19337.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19337.56596875,"end":19342.341593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19340.468468749998,"end":19341.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19341.86909375,"end":19345.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19344.484718749998,"end":19344.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19345.514093750004,"end":19352.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19346.054093749997,"end":19346.459093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19352.51721875,"end":19356.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19356.702218750004,"end":19369.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19360.920968750004,"end":19361.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19369.037843750004,"end":19377.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19377.12096875,"end":19377.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19377.93096875,"end":19392.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19392.527843750002,"end":19393.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19393.270343750002,"end":19394.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19395.312218749998,"end":19405.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19407.14159375,"end":19477.341593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19414.54971875,"end":19414.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19414.920968750004,"end":19414.937843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19414.937843749998,"end":19414.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19433.93909375,"end":19434.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19451.100968749997,"end":19451.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19476.26159375,"end":19476.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19477.40909375,"end":19492.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19492.90034375,"end":19504.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19505.03346875,"end":19524.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19524.929093749997,"end":19525.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19525.60409375,"end":19531.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19531.240343750003,"end":19536.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19532.944718749997,"end":19533.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19534.311593750004,"end":19534.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19536.640343749998,"end":19542.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19540.538468749997,"end":19542.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19542.05721875,"end":19542.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19542.07409375,"end":19543.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19543.32284375,"end":19543.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19544.70659375,"end":19549.819718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19578.35534375,"end":19580.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19585.240343750003,"end":19586.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19596.225968749997,"end":19599.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19600.326593750004,"end":19601.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19601.96346875,"end":19604.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19604.562218749998,"end":19605.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19607.14409375,"end":19612.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19612.49346875,"end":19612.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19612.864718750003,"end":19614.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19614.70409375,"end":19619.125343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19619.429093749997,"end":19627.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19628.00159375,"end":19630.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19630.98846875,"end":19633.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19633.78971875,"end":19635.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19637.90721875,"end":19640.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19641.552218750003,"end":19647.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19647.998468750004,"end":19650.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19650.732218750003,"end":19656.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19657.060343750003,"end":19669.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19669.919093750003,"end":19674.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19674.96471875,"end":19681.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19682.271593750003,"end":19683.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19684.380968750003,"end":19686.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19687.09784375,"end":19688.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19688.717843750004,"end":19690.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19690.692218750002,"end":19692.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19695.147218750004,"end":19696.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19697.678468750004,"end":19698.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19698.741593749997,"end":19699.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19699.75409375,"end":19701.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19701.272843749997,"end":19706.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19706.92596875,"end":19709.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19709.794718750003,"end":19714.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19715.14409375,"end":19730.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19730.63534375,"end":19736.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19736.777843750002,"end":19745.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19744.13534375,"end":19744.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19745.215343750002,"end":19750.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19751.172218749998,"end":19756.116593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19756.521593750003,"end":19758.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19758.66471875,"end":19762.866593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19763.44034375,"end":19792.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19793.08971875,"end":19793.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19795.334093750003,"end":19798.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19798.89471875,"end":19799.687843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19799.991593749997,"end":19800.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19801.51034375,"end":19802.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19803.09659375,"end":19806.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19807.07909375,"end":19810.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19810.79159375,"end":19816.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19812.98534375,"end":19813.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19816.27596875,"end":19858.632218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19859.256593750004,"end":19862.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19863.374093750004,"end":19877.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19878.645968750003,"end":19880.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19880.58659375,"end":19881.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19882.51034375,"end":19884.248468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19884.61971875,"end":19886.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19886.64471875,"end":19888.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19890.593468749998,"end":19891.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19892.31471875,"end":19893.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19893.17534375,"end":19894.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19893.749093750004,"end":19894.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19894.272218750004,"end":19901.764718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19897.03971875,"end":19897.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19900.21221875,"end":19900.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19901.61284375,"end":19902.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19903.047218749998,"end":19904.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19905.139718750004,"end":19906.185968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19906.489718750003,"end":19907.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19907.957843750002,"end":19909.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19910.11784375,"end":19911.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19912.58159375,"end":19914.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19915.163468749997,"end":19926.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19926.57096875,"end":19926.672218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19926.82409375,"end":19929.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19929.97971875,"end":19939.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19940.49284375,"end":19942.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19942.85534375,"end":19945.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19947.07409375,"end":19949.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19949.60534375,"end":19951.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19951.444718749997,"end":19954.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19954.515968749998,"end":19955.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19955.61284375,"end":19962.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19962.632843749998,"end":19962.835343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19962.835343749997,"end":19962.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19964.03346875,"end":19965.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19965.906593749998,"end":19968.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19968.944093750004,"end":19972.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19972.99409375,"end":19975.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19976.132843749998,"end":19980.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19980.975968749997,"end":19986.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19986.764093750004,"end":19988.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19989.109718749998,"end":19990.780343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19991.43846875,"end":19992.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19993.007843749998,"end":19995.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19995.184718750003,"end":19995.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19995.87659375,"end":20000.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20001.310343750003,"end":20002.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20003.301593750002,"end":20006.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20006.811593750004,"end":20009.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20010.625343749998,"end":20012.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20012.78534375,"end":20014.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20015.029718750004,"end":20021.155343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20021.81346875,"end":20022.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20023.19721875,"end":20024.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20024.98596875,"end":20025.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20025.053468750004,"end":20026.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20026.622843750003,"end":20026.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20026.99409375,"end":20027.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20027.027843750002,"end":20043.109718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20027.09534375,"end":20027.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":20031.600968749997,"end":20031.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20043.396593750003,"end":20043.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20044.122218750003,"end":20044.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20045.202218750004,"end":20046.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20046.83909375,"end":20047.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20049.420968750004,"end":20054.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20055.023468749998,"end":20055.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20055.090968750003,"end":20055.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20055.344093749998,"end":20055.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20055.37784375,"end":20056.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20056.10346875,"end":20056.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20056.23846875,"end":20056.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20057.031593749998,"end":20057.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20057.520968750003,"end":20059.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20059.46159375,"end":20059.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20060.507843749998,"end":20067.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20067.73034375,"end":20069.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20070.04221875,"end":20071.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20083.997843750003,"end":20087.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20087.76096875,"end":20089.397843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20091.051593750002,"end":20091.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20091.67596875,"end":20091.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20091.84471875,"end":20093.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20094.20721875,"end":20094.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20095.084718750004,"end":20098.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20098.459718750004,"end":20102.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20103.35346875,"end":20106.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20107.116593749997,"end":20112.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20113.545968750004,"end":20115.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20116.279718750004,"end":20119.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20119.418468750002,"end":20123.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20124.075968750003,"end":20128.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20129.49284375,"end":20129.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20130.623468750004,"end":20131.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20131.585343749997,"end":20133.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20134.55534375,"end":20137.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20137.812218749998,"end":20138.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20138.959718750004,"end":20141.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20142.18284375,"end":20143.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20143.97159375,"end":20146.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20147.21159375,"end":20153.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20154.31596875,"end":20158.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20159.547218749998,"end":20162.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20162.51721875,"end":20166.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20167.005968750003,"end":20168.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20168.76096875,"end":20170.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20171.69721875,"end":20188.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20188.89284375,"end":20191.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20191.50846875,"end":20192.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20192.318468750003,"end":20198.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20199.11909375,"end":20202.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20203.01721875,"end":20207.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20208.248468750004,"end":20212.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20212.61909375,"end":20214.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20216.12909375,"end":20217.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20218.913468749997,"end":20224.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20224.785968750002,"end":20228.295968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20228.44784375,"end":20235.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20235.653468750003,"end":20237.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20238.100343750004,"end":20239.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20240.952218750004,"end":20251.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20251.600343750004,"end":20252.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20252.545343750004,"end":20253.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20254.435343750003,"end":20255.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20257.169093750003,"end":20258.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20258.70471875,"end":20260.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20260.257218749997,"end":20261.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20261.927843750003,"end":20265.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20266.43346875,"end":20267.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20267.68221875,"end":20272.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20273.841593750003,"end":20279.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20280.287843750004,"end":20292.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20293.349093750003,"end":20296.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20296.184093750002,"end":20299.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20299.896593750003,"end":20317.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20318.357843750004,"end":20319.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20320.21409375,"end":20405.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20405.466593750003,"end":20412.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20413.195343749998,"end":20415.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20415.794093750003,"end":20420.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20420.789093749998,"end":20422.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20423.320343749998,"end":20433.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20433.968468749998,"end":20436.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20434.559093750002,"end":20435.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20436.364718750003,"end":20437.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20437.78221875,"end":20440.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20437.79909375,"end":20448.615968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20441.039093749998,"end":20441.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20449.257218749997,"end":20456.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20457.660968750002,"end":20460.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20461.74471875,"end":20465.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20466.16596875,"end":20472.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20472.47721875,"end":20474.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20474.48534375,"end":20476.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20477.725343750004,"end":20480.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20480.52659375,"end":20483.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20484.053468750004,"end":20487.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20488.82909375,"end":20491.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20491.81596875,"end":20504.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20504.742218749998,"end":20508.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20509.365968750004,"end":20511.475343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20511.64409375,"end":20527.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20528.29971875,"end":20539.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20538.981593750003,"end":20545.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20539.70721875,"end":20539.740968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20539.79159375,"end":20541.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20542.12034375,"end":20552.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20551.70534375,"end":20558.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20552.34659375,"end":20552.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20552.44784375,"end":20552.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20552.515343749998,"end":20552.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20552.63346875,"end":20553.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20557.51034375,"end":20575.397843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20564.44596875,"end":20570.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20574.30096875,"end":20574.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20575.21221875,"end":20577.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20577.405968749998,"end":20577.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20577.591593750003,"end":20588.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20577.692843750003,"end":20578.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20588.40846875,"end":20591.749718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20591.834093750003,"end":20592.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20592.795968750004,"end":20595.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20595.934718750003,"end":20607.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20607.257843749998,"end":20619.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20619.64409375,"end":20620.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20620.943468750003,"end":20623.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20624.35221875,"end":20624.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20625.465968750003,"end":20626.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20628.199718750002,"end":20633.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20628.435968750004,"end":20628.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":20628.72284375,"end":20628.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":20628.80721875,"end":20628.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20628.89159375,"end":20629.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20629.178468750004,"end":20629.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20629.482218750003,"end":20629.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20633.78534375,"end":20636.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20636.51909375,"end":20640.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20640.670343750004,"end":20642.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20641.05846875,"end":20641.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20643.404093750003,"end":20650.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20660.684093750002,"end":20664.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20665.30784375,"end":20668.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20668.750343749998,"end":20669.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20669.374718749998,"end":20672.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20673.475343750004,"end":20674.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20673.795968750004,"end":20676.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20676.225968749997,"end":20677.170968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20677.069718749997,"end":20678.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20678.132843749998,"end":20682.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20681.372843750003,"end":20682.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20682.60471875,"end":20682.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20683.296593749998,"end":20782.420343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20782.03221875,"end":20849.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20786.419718750003,"end":20786.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20849.97096875,"end":20858.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20859.539093749998,"end":20888.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20868.685343750003,"end":20873.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20888.15909375,"end":20947.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20947.96409375,"end":20948.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20948.77409375,"end":20948.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20948.89221875,"end":20965.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":20962.020968750003,"end":20962.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20962.324718750002,"end":20962.375343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20965.88534375,"end":20965.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":20966.020343750002,"end":20966.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20966.32409375,"end":20966.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20966.340968750003,"end":20966.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20966.357843750004,"end":20969.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20970.171593749998,"end":20977.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20978.490968750004,"end":20979.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20979.098468750002,"end":20981.764718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20982.709718750004,"end":21007.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21007.195343749998,"end":21026.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21026.97284375,"end":21037.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21032.811593750004,"end":21034.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21037.469093749998,"end":21056.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21054.647843749997,"end":21055.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21056.031593749998,"end":21071.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21059.00159375,"end":21059.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21062.79846875,"end":21063.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":21063.74346875,"end":21063.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21071.97846875,"end":21095.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21096.32909375,"end":21096.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21096.34596875,"end":21132.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21103.703468749998,"end":21104.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21133.80846875,"end":21135.647843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21136.913468749997,"end":21154.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21141.06471875,"end":21141.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21154.834718750004,"end":21194.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21194.10284375,"end":21255.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21255.865343750003,"end":21283.287218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21283.43909375,"end":21289.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21289.22721875,"end":21289.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21289.429718749998,"end":21291.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21291.03284375,"end":21291.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21291.04971875,"end":21291.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21291.201593750004,"end":21333.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21333.25409375,"end":21346.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21336.51096875,"end":21337.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21338.890343749998,"end":21339.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21346.29846875,"end":21349.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21350.027843750002,"end":21352.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21352.42409375,"end":21354.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21355.090343750002,"end":21357.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21357.82409375,"end":21361.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21361.92471875,"end":21365.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21366.210968749998,"end":21375.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21375.32346875,"end":21383.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21384.098468750002,"end":21384.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21384.250343749998,"end":21397.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21397.632218749997,"end":21401.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21402.458468750003,"end":21422.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21422.67471875,"end":21431.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21433.154093750003,"end":21477.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21477.771593750003,"end":21482.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21482.15909375,"end":21516.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21516.85409375,"end":21531.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21531.029093750003,"end":21560.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21560.91471875,"end":21561.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21561.97784375,"end":21592.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21592.03221875,"end":21601.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21595.356593750003,"end":21595.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21600.537218750003,"end":21659.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":21617.36159375,"end":21617.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21660.359093749998,"end":21695.374718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21695.965343750002,"end":21744.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21745.07159375,"end":21778.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21779.04096875,"end":21781.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21781.03221875,"end":21782.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":21782.905343750004,"end":21782.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21782.989718750003,"end":21793.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21793.857218750003,"end":21796.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21794.397218750004,"end":21794.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21796.422218749998,"end":21805.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21805.905968749998,"end":21806.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21807.93096875,"end":21810.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21810.98534375,"end":21812.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21812.89221875,"end":21814.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21814.731593750003,"end":21815.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21816.40221875,"end":21820.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21821.88659375,"end":21823.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":21831.91034375,"end":21832.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":21833.412218750003,"end":21835.217843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21835.69034375,"end":21835.960343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":21835.960343749997,"end":21836.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21836.93909375,"end":21838.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21840.179093749997,"end":21840.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21840.95534375,"end":21840.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":21840.97221875,"end":21842.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21842.00159375,"end":21842.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21843.030968749998,"end":21844.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21844.53284375,"end":21857.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21857.49284375,"end":21857.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21857.84721875,"end":21868.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21868.529093750003,"end":21871.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21871.73534375,"end":21881.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21881.97846875,"end":21887.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21887.15909375,"end":21890.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21891.225968749997,"end":21893.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21893.92596875,"end":21902.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21904.97909375,"end":21905.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21907.459718750004,"end":21911.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21912.201593750004,"end":21940.045343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21913.045343750004,"end":21913.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":21939.35346875,"end":21939.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21939.37034375,"end":21939.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21940.045343750004,"end":21940.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21940.450343750003,"end":21943.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21942.559718750003,"end":21943.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21943.200968750003,"end":21943.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21943.757843749998,"end":21947.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21948.668468750002,"end":21960.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21949.07346875,"end":21949.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21960.44721875,"end":21979.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21980.17409375,"end":21984.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21988.139093750004,"end":21988.999718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21991.429718749998,"end":21991.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21992.459093750003,"end":22005.554093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21997.319093750004,"end":21997.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21997.36971875,"end":21998.382218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22006.785968750002,"end":22014.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22015.375343749998,"end":22016.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22019.543468750002,"end":22020.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22021.18034375,"end":22022.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22023.694718749997,"end":22024.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22025.41596875,"end":22028.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22025.71971875,"end":22026.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22028.639093750004,"end":22037.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22030.91721875,"end":22030.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22033.87034375,"end":22034.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22035.726593749998,"end":22065.460343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22049.513468750003,"end":22050.694718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22051.58909375,"end":22052.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22063.654718750004,"end":22064.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22065.240968750004,"end":22069.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22069.797218749998,"end":22085.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22086.30096875,"end":22098.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22099.37909375,"end":22102.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22103.05784375,"end":22103.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22105.504718750002,"end":22107.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22108.00221875,"end":22112.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22114.75221875,"end":22116.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22117.50284375,"end":22123.358468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22123.93221875,"end":22130.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22131.677843750003,"end":22133.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22134.344093749998,"end":22135.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22136.35221875,"end":22139.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22139.55846875,"end":22142.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22143.726593749998,"end":22146.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22147.45596875,"end":22153.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22154.357843750004,"end":22156.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22156.63596875,"end":22158.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22159.04909375,"end":22159.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22160.29784375,"end":22161.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22161.78284375,"end":22165.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22166.32221875,"end":22166.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22167.80721875,"end":22168.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22169.764718750004,"end":22173.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22173.747218750003,"end":22177.780343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22178.77596875,"end":22179.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22180.15971875,"end":22183.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22183.551593750002,"end":22183.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22183.770968750003,"end":22186.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22186.97721875,"end":22188.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22188.47909375,"end":22243.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22193.777843750002,"end":22194.233468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22243.94721875,"end":22263.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22264.264718750004,"end":22265.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22264.382843749998,"end":22264.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22264.551593750002,"end":22264.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22265.631593750004,"end":22290.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22289.442218750002,"end":22294.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22294.622843750003,"end":22312.982843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22299.803468750004,"end":22300.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":22313.421593749998,"end":22313.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22313.43846875,"end":22314.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22314.450968750003,"end":22316.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22315.02471875,"end":22319.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22319.749718749998,"end":22321.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22320.053468750004,"end":22321.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22321.15034375,"end":22321.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22321.70721875,"end":22335.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22324.32284375,"end":22324.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22333.94159375,"end":22337.687843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22337.130968750003,"end":22357.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22337.755343750003,"end":22337.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22359.709718750004,"end":22367.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22368.434093750002,"end":22373.108468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22373.969093749998,"end":22408.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22408.934093750002,"end":22411.617218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22410.16596875,"end":22410.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22411.583468750003,"end":22418.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22413.490343750003,"end":22414.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22414.72221875,"end":22414.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22415.53221875,"end":22415.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22418.19846875,"end":22420.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22421.35409375,"end":22423.092218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22423.092218750004,"end":22423.632218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22423.632218749997,"end":22424.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22424.08784375,"end":22424.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22425.13409375,"end":22425.319718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22426.230968750002,"end":22426.585343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22427.44596875,"end":22437.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22437.28409375,"end":22438.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22440.068468750003,"end":22441.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22441.975343750004,"end":22443.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22443.81471875,"end":22449.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22449.889718750004,"end":22453.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22454.547218749998,"end":22454.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22454.90159375,"end":22456.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22457.09534375,"end":22457.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22457.85471875,"end":22460.04846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1340.778,"end":1350.304,"text":"請準備報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員14人以主法定人數現在開會請議事人員先讀三次會議時錄"},{"start":1353.018,"end":1378.985,"text":"立法院第十屆第五會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第三次全體委員會議事錄時間115年3月25日9時至13時21分115年3月26日9時至14時15分地點群縣樓801會議室出席委員林月琴等15人列席委員鍾嘉斌等20人列席官員3月25日及3月26日均由衛生福利部部長石崇良及各相關主管代表列席"},{"start":1381.089,"end":1396.77,"text":"主席林昭吉委員月勤3月25日報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定討論事項審查委員謝一鳳等19人女聚兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第31條條文修正草案等72案"},{"start":1402.247,"end":1427.42,"text":"本日會議經委員陳金輝等七人說明提案指去由衛生福利部部長石崇良及教育部國民及學前健康署教育署副署長戴淑芬說明後委員林月琴等十八人提出質詢軍經衛生福利部部長石崇良及教育部國民及學前教育署副署長戴淑芬及各相關主管等即席答覆委員柯之恩等三人所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報決議說明集群檔案必為"},{"start":1429.901,"end":1450.935,"text":"委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料則請相關機關於2週內已書面答覆委員另要求期限則從期鎖定3.兒童及少年福利與權益保障法修正草案等70案另則其繼續審查3月26日邀請衛生福利部部長及勞動部部長就在職照顧者支持體系是否完善長照3.0服務輸送與長照安排價評估進行專題報告並備質詢"},{"start":1456.238,"end":1483.774,"text":"本人会议由卫生福利部部长石冲良及劳动部部长洪森汉报告后委员林月琴等20人提出质询均经卫生福利部部长石冲良政务次长吕建德及劳动部部长洪森汉及各相关主管等即席答复文扬琼英等4人所提书面质询列入纪录刊登公报决定报告及询导完毕而委员质询未及答复后请补充资料者请相关机关与二周内以书面答复委员另要求期限者从期锁定通过临时提案一项宣读完毕"},{"start":1485.447,"end":1487.15,"text":"請問委員會三次議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處"},{"start":1493.971,"end":1519.714,"text":"好意思錄確定本日會議議程有三項專題分別是邀請勞動部部長衛生福利部援助民主委員會就穩定援助民主就業改善低薪以勞動權益保障並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為進行專題報告並被質詢第二勞邀請勞動部衛生福利部衛生福利部就開放"},{"start":1520.535,"end":1542.969,"text":"家有12歲以下子女家庭進行申請外籍家事移工政策對本國勞工就業照顧體系負擔兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套進行專題報告並被質詢三邀請勞動部衛生福利部行政院行政院人事行政總處權序部公務人員保障暨"},{"start":1543.909,"end":1570.547,"text":"培訓委員會法務部就職場80申訴機制之檢討以研會新案為例如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制進行專題報告並備諮詢這三項專題我們採綜合詢問方式進行現在介紹在場委員及列席官員王振旭委員李玉琴召委"},{"start":1574.373,"end":1595.91,"text":"勞動部部長洪聖翰勞發署署長黃玲玉資金運用局局長蘇玉清職業安全衛生署署長林玉堂勞安署署長王厚誠勞動關係司司長王厚維勞動保險司司長陳美女"},{"start":1603.261,"end":1627.989,"text":"勞動福祉退休師師長黃維生勞動條件及就業平等師師長黃齊亞勞動條件及維生福利部政務次長呂健德護理及健康照護師副市長陳春梅心理健康師副市長鄭淑欣"},{"start":1630.331,"end":1655.11,"text":"長崎照顧師檢任計政白山崎社家署副署長詹美美國建署檢任計政劉巧金園民會處長劉赫祿行政院副秘書長李國新人事處處長陳崑源"},{"start":1659.062,"end":1663.664,"text":"監規處處長李美惠全區部法規司專門委員蕭立榮保障暨培訓委員會處長蔡憲維法治司檢察官楊石宇接下來請勞動部部長報告"},{"start":1696.194,"end":1722.203,"text":"一起報告好 主席 各位委員 大家好那今天 各位委員會排定穩定原住民就業改善低薪與勞動權益保障並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與經營作為專案報告本部應要列席說明並聆聽各位委員的這個指教 那"},{"start":1723.944,"end":1750.066,"text":"請委員不吝指教本部緊就協助原住民足就業提升薪資及降低職業災害等面向之執行現況與精進作為報告如下有關穩定原住民就業原住民為就業服務法第24條第1項第4款所列政府應致力就業促進對象由各公立就業服務機構依其就業意願與需求"},{"start":1750.706,"end":1769.642,"text":"提供就業諮詢就業媒合轉介職業訓練等個別化服務為促進其就業積極運用各項就業促進措施包括提供雇用獎助鼓勵雇主提供職缺增加禁用援助民族工作機會運用缺工就獎"},{"start":1771.283,"end":1799.506,"text":"鼓励失业劳工投入特定制造业及照顾服务业等特定缺工行业助其稳定就业并提供跨域就业津贴降低失业者异地就业障碍有关保障原住民劳工薪资及相关劳动权益凡受雇于适用劳动基准法失业单位之劳工其劳动权益受该法保障雇主及应遵守该法及最低工资法相关规定"},{"start":1800.086,"end":1812.576,"text":"另外本部也致力協助原住民提升職能在地就業為協助失業或待業勞工就業依產業發展及就業市場需求辦理多元化就業導向"},{"start":1814.488,"end":1833.581,"text":"之前训练课程原住民朋友可依个别需求参训并结合民间团体办理多元就业开发方案及赔利就业计划提供在地上工岗位作为重返就业市场前之过渡及适应在降低职业灾害方面近年本部"},{"start":1835.534,"end":1852.346,"text":"勞動及職業安全衛生研究所針對職災比例較高之營造工程業製造業及住宿餐飲業原住民勞工進行深度訪談發現職業災害成因主要包括未落實防護措施"},{"start":1853.106,"end":1879.11,"text":"作業疏忽他人過失及工作環境存在危險因子早期針對特定族群職災特性分析也發現原住民勞工在營造之傷營造業之傷害失能與死亡事故多集中於年資未滿一年的勞工顯示高風險作業現場基本防護最管理及新進人員安全訓練為降低原住民勞工"},{"start":1880.906,"end":1905.595,"text":"為降低原住民勞工職災風險的重要環節為持續強化原住民職場安全與健康降低職災發生本部自今年度正式啟動為期三年的強化職場減災行動計劃優先鎖定營造業與中小微企業透過跨部會合作及公司協力推動相關減災策略如強化營造業源頭管理及現場防護機制針對"},{"start":1907.996,"end":1936.823,"text":"製造業等中小微型企業提供輔導與補助本部持續依勞動市場供需狀況掌握原住民就業及參訓中需求規劃符合產業需求之多元職類執訓課程並會與原住民會合作加強各項措施促進公司部門落實禁用原住民強化就業穩定落實原住民勞工職災預防工作以降低事故的發生保障勞工權益"},{"start":1937.563,"end":1964.894,"text":"以上報告那敬請各位委員指教那這是真的第一個那第二個第二案是這個針對開放家有12歲以下子女家庭進行申請外籍以外外型家事移工政策對本國就業照顧體系負擔兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估及制度配套進行專案報告首先"},{"start":1965.754,"end":1985.772,"text":"因少子化及双薪家庭补给育儿与家务负担日益沉重影响劳工需求职场意愿政府推动0到6岁国家一起养政策并大力到推动各项育儿补助措施但面对夜间临时及多元家务的需求仍有不足"},{"start":1986.733,"end":2000.452,"text":"家庭的多元需求需以多元政策組合回應讓家庭有更多選擇現行外籍幫忙申請門檻嚴格可適用家庭比例偏低難以回應多數的育兒家庭需求精神性評估後規劃放寬申請資格讓育有"},{"start":2003.757,"end":2020.015,"text":"未滿12歲子女家庭得依需求申請外籍包容以減輕家務負擔並支持勞工續留職場外籍包容政策定位為輔助性的家務幫手協助日常家務及生活支持並非取代專業托育服務"},{"start":2020.795,"end":2035.388,"text":"是給不同需求家庭多一種選擇實務上不同家庭會依各自的需求選擇並非全部都使用幫庸同時針對弱勢及特殊需求家庭採差異化措施包括降低就業安定費"},{"start":2037.503,"end":2061.301,"text":"那也針對弱勢部分優先審查以兼顧公平與照顧需求經本部與衛福部廣泛了解各界意見同時影響評估說明如下對本國勞工就業而言需要家務協助的家庭表示若政策開放多數人會依據自身需求使用現有的社會支持措施那部分的家庭可能會減少一些使用的服務時數"},{"start":2063.035,"end":2077.306,"text":"那二與既有體系互補也就是外籍幫傭可以現行的托育措施互補補足夜間及臨時照顧缺口減輕主要照顧者壓力降低因照顧被迫離開職場的情形三對兒童"},{"start":2079.966,"end":2097.458,"text":"儿童利益的影响当繁重的家务获得分担后家长可投入更多时间与教养与陪伴那针对影响评估的部分本部和卫福部共同合作相关配套如下第一个稳定本国劳工就业与开拓劳务市场"},{"start":2109.686,"end":2123.84,"text":"確保工作品質與勞僱權益本部將與衛福部合作強化外籍包容訓練與到宅指導並透過僱主聘請獎席職前訓練入國獎席落實法令宣導與勞僱關係的管理"},{"start":2125.842,"end":2143.639,"text":"第三持续强化育儿支持措施配合0到6岁国家一起养政策持续大力道的推动育婴留停以日申请包括家庭照顾假以及企业托育措施形成完整的相关的网络那本部会与卫福部密切合作来确保"},{"start":2144.44,"end":2171.8,"text":"本國的工作者勞動力穩定發展同時也為下一代建構更完善的這個相關的環境那最大的目的是希望育兒家庭能夠安心工作續留職場家庭減壓以上報告那我們的第三份報告那是針對這個職場霸凌申訴機制是檢討那以這個顏惠欣副總談判代表為例那如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障"},{"start":2174.264,"end":2193.608,"text":"那我們在這部分第一部分是有關職場霸凌防制相關的法制那在114年12月19號新修正的這個職安法已經徵定了職場霸凌防制的專章那相關的重點我想其實大家應該都可以查得到那第二部分是那我們關於這個職場霸凌"},{"start":2196.243,"end":2211.504,"text":"防治規劃的配套措施有包括如下第一個建置職場霸凌調查專業人才資料庫以及職場霸凌案件通報系統規劃全國職場霸凌防治的宣導教育訓練以及外部人調查培訓資源第三個積極爭取各縣市"},{"start":2214.366,"end":2235.132,"text":"政府以及檢查機構之人力相關經費第三第四點是提供中小企業聆聽外部調查專案人員之部分補助資源那我們也在跟公務人員與勞工職場霸凌的法制進行調和那去年在執案法修法修法過程中本部已多次會商考試院保訓會"},{"start":2236.112,"end":2253.323,"text":"就公務人員與勞工不同場域之職場霸凌防治機制進行調和並於研擬相關附屬法規時參考公務人員保障法及公務人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法等規定使職場霸凌之申訴調查處理機制盡量趨於一致"},{"start":2254.505,"end":2271.867,"text":"資產霸凌防制著重前端預防需要勞資政三方共同努力那新法上路後我們會擴大宣傳那目前我們資安署其實也針對相關的附屬法規進行修訂那預計希望在今年年中那都可以上路那來提升"},{"start":2273.997,"end":2289.015,"text":"勞資雙方對職場霸凌預防及處理的職能形塑健康安全友善的職場文化確保健康勞動力永續發展以上報告敬敬祝大家身體健康萬事如意謝謝謝謝紅部長接下來請衛生福利部理見的資產報告"},{"start":2300.151,"end":2311.539,"text":"主席各位委員女士先生今天大院第15屆第5次未還委員會召開全體會議那麼本部呈要列席報告深感榮幸那麼以下就"},{"start":2313.595,"end":2330.689,"text":"委員會這邊所關心的幾個案幾個部分來向各位來做個報告第一促進原住民族健康縮短平均餘命差距影響平均餘命原住民平均餘命因素非常多包括生活型態環境生物因子以及醫療資源等等"},{"start":2331.129,"end":2357.407,"text":"那麼113年原住民族平均餘命為73.23歲國人則為80.77那麼歷年原住民族與全體國民平均餘命的差距是103年的8.24歲目前已經降至113年的7.54第二原住民族113年死因排行事故第六那麼另外根據112年原住民族統計年報資料事故傷害以"},{"start":2358.449,"end":2361.258,"text":"當中以運輸事故所在的比例為最高 第三"},{"start":2362.964,"end":2392.33,"text":"本部持續推動六大策略來補食原鄉地區醫療資源以及量能包含提升醫療照護可敬性充實在地醫事人力提升公立醫療設備強化在地醫療量能緊急強化緊急醫療後送機制等等作為來促進原住民族健康平權來建構符合原住民族文化安全的健康照護服務模式第二開放家有12歲以下子女家庭進行申請"},{"start":2393.01,"end":2419.887,"text":"外籍家事移工政策第一本部为减轻家庭育儿的负担持续通过部件公共化托育机构以及运用准公共机制扩大整体托育服务量能透过公司协力共同满足家长的托育照顾需求那么以下几个数字来跟各位报告截至1215年2月底为止"},{"start":2420.467,"end":2430.116,"text":"全國總計有537家公共化托育機構可以收托17796名兒童那麼有1387托育施托中心可以收托58773名兒童其中1217家有跟政府簽訂總公共契約"},{"start":2442.768,"end":2464.204,"text":"等等那麼另外我想這些基本上都體現我們政府會持續來推動各項的公托以及準公托的政策第二依據兒童及少年福利權利保障法對於托育人員的資格規範專業職能的培訓都有相關的規定那麼本部為確保托育人員有相關的有品質的托育服務那麼也會來"},{"start":2465.765,"end":2471.332,"text":"包括推動積極作為 包括第一 托育資訊的公開揭露 第二 事前把關 第三 仿視的輔導第三 為了因應"},{"start":2476.755,"end":2502.707,"text":"家庭照顧的需求多元化本部也積極佈建公共化以及准公共的托育服務外並且也擴大推動育兒指導員的服務以及長期照顧服務的3.0這些基本上都是屬於所謂社會照顧那麼都需要來進一步的增加我們的照顧服務能力同時也搭配勞動部的家務幫手政策擴大勞務市場進行社會投資本部也持續積極培養"},{"start":2505.209,"end":2522.101,"text":"托育人員育兒指導員照顧服務員等等以支持協助育兒家庭以及擴增整體協助家庭的服務量能第四因為開放家有12歲以下子女家庭申請外籍家事移工的政策本部已經規劃兩年期"},{"start":2524.483,"end":2539.208,"text":"居家托育人員多元就業的獎勵計畫持續協助居家托育人員的媒合在宅或到宅的托育服務以穩定就業或者鼓勵居家托育人員從事托育中心托育人員"},{"start":2540.188,"end":2569.29,"text":"育儿指导员照顾服务员等工作以增补社会照顾体系所需要的人力第五本部会针对照顾服务的需求增加需要更多的服务人力来持续培育托育人员并且关注外籍帮佣新制实施后对于托育服务市场的这一个影响与劳动部共同合作来提供多元就业的机会让有需求的家庭都能够获得协助第三建构"},{"start":2571.108,"end":2593.187,"text":"員工心理健康與職場保障的機制第一本部已經根據我們最新修訂的包括去年所修訂的公務人員保障法以及安慰辦法等等相關法規來建立完善的職場霸凌申訴以及調查處理機制那麼作為同仁反映與處理職場霸凌的重要依據"},{"start":2594.068,"end":2622.796,"text":"那麼在員工支持方案方面我們也推動各項的員工的協助方案此外本部也結合了13個部會共同推動全民心理健康任性計畫在職場面向強化員工協助的方案與社區的資源並且將心理健康的教育等等這些來納入那麼綜合以上我們為了落實健康台灣的願景本部將持續推動援助民族地區醫療照護服務可進行以及資源的部件的各項策略"},{"start":2624.113,"end":2640.938,"text":"逐步來縮短城鄉差距而針對開放家有12歲以下子女進行申請外籍家事移工的政策本部則辦理各項多項的措施來減輕家庭育兒的負擔並且以勞動部來持續來共同合作"},{"start":2641.638,"end":2665.178,"text":"而最后本部也将透过制度建立跨部会的合作以及资源整合来营造友善而且知识性的职场环境并且提升同仁心理健康与组织的整体韧性再次感谢委员对本部的一个指教尽致谢诚谢谢谢谢我们李建德次长接下来请行政院李国新副秘书长报告"},{"start":2676.716,"end":2703.732,"text":"主席各位委員先進大家好今天應邀列席貴委員會進行專題報告請代表行政院列席說明為了建構健康友善職場並落實職場霸凌的防治本院依相關規定設置了院本部安全及衛生防護委員會處理相關事件委員共計12人由秘書長擔任召集人其中5人為專家學者"},{"start":2704.372,"end":2729.094,"text":"那本院院本部員工如果有遭受職場霸凌如果是非因被霸凌人申訴而知悉時本院會就相關的事實進行必要的釐清那有關台灣美國事務委員會原前主任委員會心他是自13年5月20日起兼任本院經貿談判辦公室副總談判代表"},{"start":2729.795,"end":2745.391,"text":"那疑似於執行職務過程受職場霸凌情勢本院在3月26號隨即依前述的相關規定於同日組成調查小組並為了確保調查的公正性與客觀性"},{"start":2746.272,"end":2774.762,"text":"調查小組成員全數執請本院防護委員會專業的外聘委員來擔任經徵詢意願後由四位具有相關專長且有意願參與之外聘委員組成並於3月27日隨即召開第一次會議就各階段的任務拟據執行的計畫如下第一階段以問卷普發的方式針對相關單位進行全面的調查"},{"start":2775.362,"end":2790.048,"text":"第二阶段确认发放的对象实施方式办理实诚及接受访谈的意愿并根据回收的结果初步会诊增点作为会诊后续深度访谈的参考第三阶段"},{"start":2790.808,"end":2810.609,"text":"安排委员与关键的同仁进行深度的访谈第四阶段会诊问卷访谈以及会议等等的各项客观资料厘清争点与事实完成初步的报告第五阶段会提交本院防护委员会就调查报告进行审议"},{"start":2811.857,"end":2836.314,"text":"全案调查及审议我们会遵循相关的法律规范来办理同时在规定的期限内紧速地完成调查内容还原事实的样貌针对职场霸凌事件本院除了启动相关的调查程序谨慎处理外也会依实际情形提供相关员工协助方案的关怀措施"},{"start":2837.054,"end":2855.09,"text":"持续加强友善职场的建构透过多元宣导或者教育训练强化同仁及主管对于职场霸凌的意识培力提升对于相关事件的觉察敏感度以及应变能力落实友善健康的职场"},{"start":2855.971,"end":2872.544,"text":"最後本院對於嚴副總談判代表的離世深感遺憾與不捨國家因此痛失在國際經貿領域的優秀人才然而釐清事實的樣貌建構友善職場行政院必定會努力不懈謝謝"},{"start":2877.887,"end":2897.679,"text":"現在開始尋答座 以下宣告有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入記錄刊登公報本會委員尋答時間6加2分鐘 列席委員4加1分鐘10點半截止發言登記委員如果書面質詢請 散會請提出 預期不受理暫定10點半休息10分鐘"},{"start":2898.639,"end":2916.451,"text":"原則上11點半處理臨時提案 11點截止收案現在請登記第一位委員 林玉月請召委發言謝謝主席 麻煩勞動部部長我請洪森漢部長"},{"start":2925.285,"end":2953.079,"text":"林委員好部長早我想今天有很多議題要問可是我今天事實上是帶著我們的環團的託付來問一些問題國家已經宣示我們2050年的那個近年轉型賴總統也成立了氣候變遷對策委員會而且訂出203020322035的那個減碳目標在這樣政策方向下勞動部主管的勞金局"},{"start":2953.806,"end":2975.938,"text":"掌管了大概8兆元的基金我完全同意基金操作当然要重视财务报酬可是现在我们的绿色金融已经是国际趋势金管会推动我国接轨IFRS永续揭露的准则要求上市柜公司揭露永续风险完成我们的"},{"start":2977.279,"end":2997.698,"text":"溫室的氣體的盤查 提出氣候轉型的計畫 也就是說民間企業都被要求要做 政府基金當然沒有理由 事實上是落後的 所以我要請教部長一個很簡單的問題今年全國環境NGO的大會 環團針對勞金局提出幾項要求 包括要求提升"},{"start":2998.238,"end":3026.823,"text":"基金的透明度 揭露投資組合的減碳路徑明確的化石燃料的測資的時間表請問部長為什麼勞金局會要求我們的還團對於還團要求的這個在會議上的建議來解除劣管是因為勞金局已經達成還團要求的人嗎那是不是部長可不可以解釋一下要建議解除劣管的那個理由是什麼"},{"start":3027.965,"end":3056.147,"text":"跟文說明其實關於這個我們基金的相關的投資運用那要如何來符合國際上面其實不管是這個人權或者是環境氣候的要求其實我想我自己也跟老金局做了好幾次的討論那我想請這部分請局長來跟說明所以局長要講清楚為什麼他們要求的就你要叫人家解除列管你已經做到了嗎"},{"start":3057.146,"end":3078.145,"text":"報告委員事實上我們勞金局在永續投資的部分尤其氣候變遷風險的部分我們一直都是持續向前也積極在推動的那我們很多的措施都同步在推動那至於環境基金NGO大會所謂的項目包括他可能希望我們是不是能夠承諾"},{"start":3079.746,"end":3101.56,"text":"對特定的高碳排產企業去撤資等等的我想藉這個機會跟委員報告就國際整個趨勢來看包括國際大型的退休基金都不主張撤資所以我們其實也考慮到對勞工的影響尤其我們勞動基金是政府大型的退休基金"},{"start":3102.481,"end":3120.494,"text":"不適合直接對外宣布我們對哪個公司哪個產業去撤資那我想至於是不是解除列管因為其實不影響我們對於整個永續投資的進程那列管會有什麼困難嗎因為他不是只有講說撤資的時間表啦委員長因為這個"},{"start":3122.535,"end":3139.533,"text":"全國環境NGO大會我也很熟那當然行政部門其實常常因為這個他會有很多項的列管那其實這個列管其實也是需要跟NGO討論所以如果NGO覺得這個議題還有再討論下去的需要的話其實我想大家也可以繼續再深入討論"},{"start":3140.754,"end":3166.159,"text":"那就希望部長要講得更精準一點就是勞金局不是沒有做可是做得還不夠因為今天問題不是形式上有沒有能夠要寫進報告書裡面而是這是人民的退休基金有沒有持續鋪在一個高碳排投資風險當中這才是關鍵勞金局在永續報告書裡面確實宣示要朝我們的投資組合進營"},{"start":3168.399,"end":3182.596,"text":"排放的一個來做前進可是問題是只有宣示沒有具體的路徑只有方向沒有短中長期的目標反過來看勞金局從WBA的那個世界基準的聯盟的國際永續金"},{"start":3185.086,"end":3212.495,"text":"容額的評估來看的話在全球400個受評機構當中我們是排名大324名幾乎是後段班而且有好幾個項目是零這不是環團自己講的而且這事實上是國際評比直接點出來的落差所以想問部長說面對民間企業被要求揭露被要求轉型勞金局卻明顯落後你怎麼看這個落後而且每次團體拿出這個評分表資料出來的時候我也想知道部長回應到底是什麼"},{"start":3214.035,"end":3229.684,"text":"跟我說明我們可以來再看一下這個評鑑的狀況可是我是想補充其實我認為這件事情這個議題最根本的字最關鍵的字叫做風險那當然對於氣候的風險要去怎麼認定"},{"start":3235.847,"end":3259.965,"text":"國際上面也會有很多對氣候風險不斷去認定的框架不斷的演進的事情不斷演進的趨勢所以我也請蘇局長那針對國際上面對氣候風險怎麼樣去認定怎麼樣去認知包括人權風險怎麼樣去認定認知我們應該要跟上國際的趨勢我想其實關鍵是這件事情所以勞軍局其實他每天最重要的工作就是去評估判斷這個風險"},{"start":3261.326,"end":3275.226,"text":"只是哪些風險只是哪些風險要納進來可是我覺得因為在這個這個評鑑它它是不是針對金融機構的排名可是因為我們不是金融機構啊"},{"start":3278.866,"end":3302.122,"text":"問題是今天我覺得還是在基金是你們投資那你們有沒有還是投資在這些我們覺得不是這麼OK的因為剛剛那個評比剛剛有人看前一張他的標的是台灣金融機構可是也是國際氣候的那個評比因為勞金局不算是金融機構"},{"start":3304.192,"end":3324.147,"text":"好 再來我要談的是勞金局到底什麼時候才開始算因為勞金局在永續報告裡面寫得很清楚要等到上市櫃公司2029年才開始盤查跟確信才開始蒐集資料計算我們的財務碳排放照這個時程的話最快2030年才會有第一個基準數"},{"start":3327.283,"end":3335.208,"text":"我補充報告 事實上我們勞金局持續在關注碳排的相關資訊我們內部在113年就完成112年我們投資組合自營的部分的碳排放114年就完成113年"},{"start":3342.773,"end":3368.104,"text":"但是我們考量到資訊品質最主要就是因為金廣會在宣佈他要在上市櫃公司2027年完成碳盤查2029年才完成確信所以我們考量到目前的資訊品質我們在我們規劃的路徑上我們規劃在2026年也就是今年我們提前"},{"start":3369.024,"end":3387.417,"text":"因為我們經過兩年的評估檢視我們的資訊品質然後也仿佛去不同的來源去核對所以現在是2027嗎沒有我們會是維持到2029沒有沒有沒有我剛剛有報告就是說我們經過這幾年的收集跟相關事實上我們內部都有資料"},{"start":3387.637,"end":3413.603,"text":"那我們會配合我們因為我們兩年發布一次永續報告書我們會在2026年的永續報告書也就是今年的永續報告書揭露我們國內自營投資如果我們委託我們委託有117個帳戶那這個金額也很龐大我們有400多檔的股票所以我們如果說我們檢視再重新檢視後我們會一起提前在今年的2026年永續報告書一併揭露好"},{"start":3417.423,"end":3443.804,"text":"因為你看原來我們的勞金局說話我覺得這個問題很大因為現在退府基金都已經完成了財務碳排放的一個揭露所以我覺得你們不是做不到為什麼因為再來八大工股的行庫也都在進行這代表要做不是完全沒有基礎勞金局也不能再用基金規模差異我們的基礎數據是不是可靠來做回應我一"},{"start":3445.922,"end":3462.549,"text":"只要求就是就是要開始做了所以現在外界質疑很直接別人已經做到的事情為什麼勞金局還要等因為國家訂的目標事實上是2030年的那個減碳要到30%這就變成一個很荒謬的狀況就有有些國家都已經要交成績單了"},{"start":3463.489,"end":3480.662,"text":"老金局卻還要再等說什麼時候開始計分那我辦公室已經跟老金局溝通過好幾次所以我要請教部長說真的要等到2029開始算嗎還是反正剛剛講說你2026年就會開始嘛那就是會是比我們剛剛得到那前面我們溝通都一直"},{"start":3481.282,"end":3502.387,"text":"溝通無效啦那不知道為什麼我還是要說明我覺得關鍵的概念是風險所以怎麼看待這個氣候的風險人權的風險因為對勞軍局來說他們也需要對這麼多的勞工他們的勞工的錢拿到這個政府的基金來投資他也要對收益負滿大的沉重的責任"},{"start":3503.147,"end":3528.342,"text":"所以這個風險怎麼認知其實會關乎到勞軍局在這裡面各種基金運用跟投資的判斷那我也請他們說如果今天在國際上面對於氣候的風險的認定有一些新的看法請勞軍局我們應該要跟上那我覺得這件事情是重要的關鍵部長我覺得為什麼國際會有這樣子也關乎到我們地球的生存的量我覺得這也很至為關鍵"},{"start":3529.162,"end":3548.003,"text":"所以接下来我要谈执行策略面对高碳牌的产业国际上已经有很多做法很清楚了包括挪威 荷兰 法国 韩国还有我们台湾不少民间金融机构都已经设定好投资门槛定定了一个撤资的时程承诺不再新增对于我们的煤炭跟"},{"start":3548.86,"end":3571.775,"text":"美電廠的一個投資並且逐步撤出所以反過來看勞金局我們辦公室在溝通的時候勞金局目前還是堅持以義核作為主要的策略我要請教部長原因是什麼你真的認為單靠義核效果是可以期待的嗎為什麼在面對高碳排投資的時候我們的那個撤資始終事實上不是一個優先的一個選項"},{"start":3574.45,"end":3590.008,"text":"我想要跟委員還是說明因為我知道勞運局的壓力他們這個擔負了這麼多的勞工然後甚至有些基金還有這個財務上面的挑戰比方說勞保基金還有財務上面的挑戰"},{"start":3591.129,"end":3617.899,"text":"所以他們其實對於收益這件事情他們的壓力是非常非常大的所以還是一樣我覺得今天有可能很多種路徑可以達到這個相關的方向可是我們還是把這個風險的認定的方式我覺得我認為在風險認定的方式大家可以做多做討論今天如果的確因為氣候的風險或環境的風險造成某一些投資的標的他的風險也急劇升高很多那這個該減少就減少"},{"start":3619.44,"end":3638.579,"text":"我覺得必須從風險的角度來看待對不一定是我們單押在某一種路徑上面某一種工具上面我要對勞金局說義和事實上是世界潮流這個來提出討論因為荷蘭的兩大退休基金APP跟我們的"},{"start":3639.119,"end":3655.439,"text":"PFZW原本也不是一開始就是測試他們一開始是採取的的確也是義核策略但問題是和化石燃料公司義核多年之後他們最後得到一個結論是義核成效真的事實上是有限的所以最後還是要"},{"start":3656.94,"end":3670.13,"text":"請部長有具體的兩個那個答案剛剛已經講是勞進局現在的義和到底有沒有要求機械改善的明確的時程然後另外一個是如果義和沒有達標的時候有沒有一個撤資的機制"},{"start":3674.52,"end":3693.127,"text":"剛剛委員提的這兩個我們可以研議但是就像剛剛提到的就我們政府基金我們基本上是不會去對外宣布我們對某個公司某個產業去撤資但是我們是一個長期財務性的投資我們在投資的流程已經納入了"},{"start":3693.947,"end":3712.937,"text":"這個氣候邊遷風險所以如果我們看到公司並沒有如預期的他所做的承諾我們當然隨時可以在投資的部分做處理所以委員的所提出來我們也會很我覺得這如果沒有辦法做的話當然外界就很難相信說"},{"start":3714.139,"end":3730.513,"text":"金曲仙在彈的義和真的能產生效果嗎為什麼我覺得今天你說叫老虎不要吃肉然後我念佛經給你聽然後老虎就真的不吃肉嗎你如果沒有一些手段的話當然我就沒有辦法做到我還是要說我覺得我們還是會比較回到風險的概念"},{"start":3731.499,"end":3759.737,"text":"那從風險的認定來看待老金局在投資上面的合理性包括跟效益我認為還是必須回到這件事情上部長我對這件事情我會一直警惕因為這是對我們這是我們國家對國人對國際社會對我們下一代的責任我相信部長投入這個議題的時間比我更長更深所以我也知道老金局同仁我很謝謝昨天趕出一份報告給我但是"},{"start":3760.738,"end":3768.21,"text":"僅對於我們的期程設定有做了一些更新我不是很滿意因為您做的事情很多我希望勞動部一個月內清楚告訴我們"},{"start":3769.113,"end":3797.607,"text":"你們的困難到底在哪裡?對這些要求做不到的原因是什麼?是缺錢還是缺人來執行?我從立院也會盡全力我會請老林局來參考國際的做法那國際做法上也許有些會走到比較前面一點那我覺得各種的做法我們都會來參考可是一樣概念我覺得回到風險的事情上面那民間倡議撤資這當然我們理解民間的倡議可是從政府的基金的角度他從風險來去做他相關的決策的判斷是部長您"},{"start":3798.007,"end":3811.096,"text":"之前如果站在我這個位置上 我相信你也會問同樣的問題啦是 所以我們很清楚 必須以風險為核心好 謝謝好 謝謝林玉琴召委接下來請陳金輝委員發言謝謝主席 謝謝今天出席的委員跟官員首先想請勞動部部長還有衛福部次長"},{"start":3825.148,"end":3828.229,"text":"好請吳副部長及李建德次長好 你好這個是本週的一個案例他爆發了一起診所的負責人對他的女員工有嚴重的職場性騷擾我們先看一下這個影片"},{"start":3866.03,"end":3881.767,"text":"許多人在網路上流傳了兩段影片有一段是在診所的櫃台另外一段是他在幫應該是診所負責人開門的時候發生的強行搂抱並且這個女員工不斷的退縮閃躲她還變本加厲"},{"start":3882.808,"end":3910.841,"text":"那這名女員工她後來身心受創報警然後離職了但至今呢已經超過一個月這個醫師連一句道歉都沒有本案現在他是同步他有送檢調強制猥褻罪法辦但是我也想請問勞動部其實蠻多受害人你也知道啦很多這樣類似的受害人他不一定會走上法律途徑因為因為他這個身心煎熬會更久這些審判可能長達數年"},{"start":3912.222,"end":3925.36,"text":"所以我們想請教您的是現在部長掌握的資訊你會不會覺得這是很嚴重的職場性騷擾案件還有另外這起性騷擾案件的行政流程調查流程到底進度到哪裡了"},{"start":3926.601,"end":3953.392,"text":"根本說沒有其實我也非常關注這個案子那包括這個案子的協助來自苗栗縣的一位民醫代表所以其實我們也很關注那我就知道現在這個案子其實應該已經進入到苗栗縣政府的申訴跟調查的程序裡面了那目前應該司法的部分其實也有所介入所以就程序面的部分的進度應該是到這邊那我們當然從畫面上面來看"},{"start":3954.372,"end":3974.294,"text":"因為我之前也看過好幾次你剛才播放的畫面的確這當然是一件非常非常嚴重的事情所以我自己也很希望像這樣的狀況尤其是在醫療業的現場我自己也希望我們能夠跟目的世界主管機關來討論怎麼樣盡量的從更根本性的方式管理性的方式去避免"},{"start":3974.574,"end":3993.469,"text":"好那我們就來討論根本性的方式因為您都提了這個上禮拜還沒有這個新聞我已經質詢這個議題因為衛福部被糾正一連串過去一年非常多醫事人員違反這個性別平等等等的事件所以衛福部被監察院糾正說他們的衛政跟這個"},{"start":3995.55,"end":4011.404,"text":"社政的串聯不夠好以至於很多醫事人員他可能已經爆發了行政調查報告也出來了結果一直持續接觸了脆弱族群或者是持續在這個職場還在上班可是很多人都不知道那我先給你看一下這個資訊"},{"start":4012.825,"end":4035.607,"text":"監察院對你提出了糾正他對很多部門都有提出糾正但是其中就包括衛福部監察院是這樣子說他說社政跟衛政的聯繫極度不足你們說已經建構了社會局通知衛生局的機制但是這邊還有一個bug要跟您討論因為一位醫事人員他有可能是在他的職場違反性工法有可能是在學校違反性教法那這樣子衛生局會不會收到通知因為我們不能每次都靠這種發公文傳統會有時間差的通知"},{"start":4037.489,"end":4064.572,"text":"我們現在已經建立那個瑞瑟鎮的聯繫管道所以那個已經可是我剛剛有講啊因為還有教育場域還有職場的場域也有可能發生好那我們再跟教育部跟勞動部來討論一下好了我們之前是瑞瑟鎮先連的那現在要跨部隊了這是上週啦3月25號他說他要建立三方平台裡面就包括社會局包括勞動局包括這個教育局等等的那我想問一下這個系統性的借街他找你們聯絡了嗎有"},{"start":4067.828,"end":4096.625,"text":"非常感謝委員那個對於 包委員我們的一個對於整個職場性騷我想我們的態度一定是零容忍我想這是我們的基本原則那在這個部分其實在上一次委員您諮詢之後其實我們有跟勞動部這邊我們現在未來現在就是說先兩個部分第一個就是說我們現在目前衛生的部分我們主要事實上是透過跟衛生局這邊那只要有相關的案例的話我們會簽到有關職場的那個部分的話我們就跟勞動部這邊會建立一個整個"},{"start":4097.105,"end":4125.76,"text":"相互的一個聯繫機制因為他說跟社會局的已經連結好了他已經有一個對接的平台然後另外上次委員您諮詢之後現在也跟教育嘛對不對那現在我們後續我們現在也跟那個勞動部這邊因為現在有關職場的部分好像有關於像醫院啊醫院端等等這些的部分的話我們也會大概什麼時間內你可以具體給大家因為全國都在看大概多久的期限以內你們這個系統性的對接會完成包圍我們在一個月之內好不好"},{"start":4126.32,"end":4154.888,"text":"一個月 沒錯 謝謝那接下來再問勞動部長一個問題因為我們知道說現在是這個縣政府他在做一個調查但是這個案件比較特別因為他本於是負責人本身就是加害人所以也會有一些關心這個事件的人他們會擔心是不是會有調查上的困難所以製作出完整的報告因為這方面你應該也蠻有經驗的可能蠻多都是有權勢的人他本身就是加害人那這個"},{"start":4155.908,"end":4184.882,"text":"你認為這個調查報告會不會有所延誤他如果是機構的負責人的話其實應該會可以到地方政府來去做向地方政府申訴來做調查所以其實就是針對這個最高負責人的狀況我們是在問您啊因為以您以往處理的經驗有權勢的人他其實也有可能會是加害人嘛但這個就有點困難了因為他必須要交由第三方比如說地方政府再請"},{"start":4186.283,"end":4200.631,"text":"這個學者啊等等但因為他本身在這個地方工作所以他有可能會對於接觸一些這個受害者的同事或者是對於影像的處理他比較容易接觸到那這方面會不會對於你們之後的調查報告會有所影響"},{"start":4202.917,"end":4231.85,"text":"其實因為在姓名三法修法以後其實就是針對最高負責人所以我自己是認為也是因為針對最高負責人如果被設定為是加害者的潛在對象的話所以才需要地方政府來做調查就是希望能夠去盡量避免他在這個事業單位裡面的那個權利的運用的狀況所以地方政府是有權利來做各種的調閱調查的狀況其實地方政府是有權利的好 收到"},{"start":4232.27,"end":4244.036,"text":"那之後如果您有這個調查報告再希望您可以轉交給衛福部謝謝那兩位可以請先回座接下來想邀請這個保訓會的蔡處長好"},{"start":4259.021,"end":4267.424,"text":"處長我們先聽一段音檔因為這個是疑似楊真理霸凌員工從前的音檔我們先聽完以後你再評價一下可以幫我播一下嗎"},{"start":4290.173,"end":4298.599,"text":"我們給你的指令為什麼你要掌握生命自己的指令我的指令是希望同仁不要浪費時間的指令我有這樣講過你嗎我可以告你耶"},{"start":4308.605,"end":4336.477,"text":"我想請教保訓會因為根據你們公務人員保障法的定義其實勞動部長也在場勞動部長也蠻在意這個議題的職場霸凌是指機關人員假借權勢逾越必要的範圍持續的以威脅侮辱或孤立的方式造成敵意性的工作環境以致於公務員身心受創那條文裡面也特別講到雖然他有強調持續性可是情節重大的不在此現那你認為這一段應當"},{"start":4338.038,"end":4340.728,"text":"在你們公務人員保障法裡面算不算是一個80"},{"start":4343.547,"end":4368.404,"text":"公務人員報告我們關於職場霸凌的定義目前是定義在公務人員保障法第19條第二項跟安慰辦法上面其實它對於職場霸凌的定義都有做一些客觀性的描述那至於這些法令上面的條文規定在具體個案事實上面怎麼樣去含設那這個我們在制度上是設計由包含了外部學者專家加入了調查小組來進行調查"},{"start":4370.726,"end":4400.189,"text":"那之所以会有这样设计也是避免让政府机关的人可以去可能会对这件事情有左右的空间或者是对于过去的组织文化有可能有认知上面的误区那也因此对于刚刚播放的这样的一个阴档的这样一个个案事实据我们的了解应该相关的机关已经有成立调查小组已经开始了已经开始调查在进行调查那我们可能不适合在这个地方去做评价好 当然这边我是要提醒你"},{"start":4400.689,"end":4423.986,"text":"之後你也說了一定要第三方公正的來做調查嘛我們也擔心中間會被掩滅證據等等的我們來看這個是當時行政院114年1月2號提交了一個專欄報告當時勞動部有霸凌衛福部也有行政院還有兩個處長他被公有投訴就院本部就出現了霸凌的"},{"start":4424.366,"end":4445.515,"text":"事件所以當時呢引用賴總統的話就說一定要杜絕職場各種形式的霸凌落實健康的工作環境但今天為什麼會在這裡開這個委員會就是因為我們發生了談判副代表揭露遭到長期的忽視沒有人重視職場霸凌如果連行政院高層都疑似帶頭對照這個報告承諾落實賴總統指示我是覺得非常的諷刺啦那"},{"start":4451.297,"end":4477.297,"text":"這邊你剛有提到第19條你講得非常好如果發生這個事件置之不理主管應該要受罰但我想問您假使這個事件的受害者是談判副代表行政院體系政務委員的主管是誰誰該負起這個監督還有懲罰的責任因為如果職場已經知悉主管知悉沒有採取具體的有效措施是要依法懲處的是誰"},{"start":4480.279,"end":4508.538,"text":"是跟委員報告依照我們公務人員職應職務安全衛生防護辦法第35條第一項第二款的規定就是當機關在接獲到申訴的時候其實他應該要立即採取有效的這個措施那證實是未接獲申訴也是應該要去採取立即有效的措施政務委員的主管是誰是秘書長是副院長還是院長"},{"start":4510.779,"end":4527.85,"text":"是以本案來說應該是行政院行政院院長好主管是行政院院長我們會說他是一個機關的責任所以應該是行政院要去負責所以最後如果我們出來結果行政院有疏失您會說是行政院有疏失是嗎"},{"start":4529.969,"end":4539.372,"text":"這個必須要看因為據我們所知行政院在接獲到可能接獲到這樣的可能有 沒關係我先給你看時間序我整理時間序給您看我也希望您好好的去回顧一下近期的新聞3月12號是媒體披露我們的副談判代表他因病過世"},{"start":4552.535,"end":4557.278,"text":"3月12號之後呢這個我們副院長就出來說非常的難過哽咽稱呼他是最佳的戰友這件事結束之後呢就有他在因病離職的離職信很長你也看過流了出來流到媒體上然後再加上呢他的前同事就匿名到Threads上面揭露說"},{"start":4576.591,"end":4579.956,"text":"他長期壓力業務壓力並且會議頻頻遭受否定斥責不同專業的觀點或者是遭長官繞過指揮包括赴美談判不帶他啦休息喝珍奶排擠他"},{"start":4591.874,"end":4617.176,"text":"隔絕這個關鍵談判資訊也不給他然後專業被踐踏職責被推諉多次建言被忽視無視最後他積勞成疾想要請辭的時候連辭呈都不批啊直到他最後真的是住院的時候才寫下沉痛的離職書但是這些離職書跟這個匿名的爆料披露之後行政院發言人是表示過去未曾聽聞"},{"start":4618.157,"end":4644.671,"text":"但還是很遺憾很難過失去了一個很優秀的同事我跟你更新一個最新的資訊昨天王玉敏委員在總質詢的時候直接問卓院長什麼時候收到這個沉痛的離職信結果他回答2月19號當時他的同仁拿手機的內容給他看所以院長已閱讀同日信件寄達院長辦公室"},{"start":4645.251,"end":4653.602,"text":"以你現在了解的資訊你說行政院要負起調查責任請問你現在收到的日期是2月19日嗎因為他2月19日就收到簡訊啊"},{"start":4656.391,"end":4683.844,"text":"各位委員報告這個各機關非因申訴而窒息到可能有這場霸凌的情形通常會需要一段的時間去了解一下因為它情況有很多種有包括是在媒體上面的爆料也有可能是社群媒體上的報章所以對於機關來說它就是有必要去了解一下它是不是屬於一個具體事實至少要做一個初步了解啦"},{"start":4684.184,"end":4695.293,"text":"那至於在行政院在從成立調查小組之前的這段過程他們怎麼樣去進行的這個進程這可能要由行政院來說明可能會比較妥適那成立調查小組是什麼時候行政院要說明嗎人事處長副秘書長副秘書長"},{"start":4715.868,"end":4734.543,"text":"跟委員報告我們在3月26號之夕的時候就成立了調查小組來做釐清事實的動作所以你們2月19收到這個離職信他裡面說他長期被忽視的時候你們還沒開始我們不知道你不知道對我不知道但是卓院長知道"},{"start":4736.709,"end":4759.037,"text":"昨天有回答王毅民委員他是在2月19號的時候辦公室的幕僚轉資這個訊息給院長院長那時候是希望表達關心然後要請他好好休息因為請他好好養病接下來繼續為國服務但是那是在過年期間2月19號是在過年"},{"start":4761.198,"end":4785.694,"text":"然後過年完了以後的話我們緊接著就228連假再來再表示關心的時候3月初得知副總檯面廖有病情急轉直下大概院長昨天也講述了這個過程我們真正知道的時候是因為3月26號的那個TID的訊息出來以後我們才知道的"},{"start":4785.794,"end":4802.025,"text":"我跟你說你看這個時間序3月26號已經被披露他業務有長期的壓力你才知道對不對發言人表示過去未聽說但其實2月19你們收到他的離職簡訊的時候內容就跟26號是有點重複的我要跟委員強調的時候因為我們真的沒有沒有任何的公文完反的記錄那個純粹就是他傳給院長幕僚的簡訊"},{"start":4816.277,"end":4819.119,"text":"沒有公文我們保訊會回來因為你剛剛講得很清楚嘛你剛剛的意思是說當主管知悉的時候可以先內部詢問一下是需要公文的嗎"},{"start":4834.019,"end":4851.138,"text":"公務員報告那個知曦可能有職場霸凌情勢的方式真的有很多種不一定是單純是可能是曾經信也有可能是社群媒體上面的發文好沒關係我希望保訓會處長今天可以把這個資訊帶回去因為全國的公務員"},{"start":4852.219,"end":4874.414,"text":"還有社會大眾都在看你們接下來的作為可不可以勿往勿縱剛剛我們從這個時間軸還有網路上的他同事是義憤填膺出來說覺得非常的不捨那在核對他之前就已經送給院長的簡訊內容其實他是早在知情的狀況下就代呼職守去不處理那"},{"start":4875.334,"end":4895.373,"text":"之後我們要看到保訓會的作為看是院長要負責還是副院長要負責還是秘書長要負責因為這個是行政院的霸凌世界根本就是對我們法律尊嚴的一個挑戰所以我也希望你現在找的外部專家可以公正客觀啟動調查最後我們要看到一個全民可以信服的報告好嗎"},{"start":4900.652,"end":4906.297,"text":"我們可能沒有那麼相信行政院的報告我是說請保訓會回答保訓會不會有報告啊好您說您說那我們針對這次調查的時候我們為了讓他公正客觀我們的調查委員都是外部委員沒有內部委員"},{"start":4919.445,"end":4927.529,"text":"好那全國的公務員都在看今天的資訊他們也希望知道說最後的結果如何謝謝主席謝謝陳金輝委員接下來請邱惠如委員發言"},{"start":4941.949,"end":4949.286,"text":"主席還有各位委員同仁各位政府部門的同仁大家好我們有請勞動部長洪部長謝謝請洪部長"},{"start":4958.154,"end":4987.071,"text":"邱委員好是 部長好我今天是想跟你交流最低服務年限即違約金條款那我想問部長請問您知道其實我們醫療機構也好護理機構也好長照機構也好常常使出最低服務年限即違約金條款來約束護理人員的離職自由請問一下部長有掌握這件事嗎我知道那您對這件事目前的看法是如何"},{"start":4989.172,"end":5007.768,"text":"這勞基法有相關的規定是勞基法規範在第15條之一那事實上部長覺得那相關的規定那您的看法呢這個有規定我們都知道但是您的看法當然法的規定就應該落實但確實它應該有一些相關的前提"},{"start":5008.608,"end":5037.347,"text":"相關前提我先跟部長建構一些基本的觀念就是我們護理人員他如果受僱於醫療機構也好長照機構也好護理機構也好那通常都跟醫院或者是護理長照機構簽訂一個不定期勞動契約那不定期勞動契約如果護理人員想離職那其實按照勞基法的規定其實只要預告僱主其實就可以離職了我想這個概念我想這個基本概念我們應該是都有掌握"},{"start":5040.49,"end":5065.949,"text":"那現在呢醫院呢因為我也大家也知道說那個護理人員荒非常嚴重嘛所以這些機構其實很害怕護理人員離職所以他就會寄出一個最低服務年限寄違約金的條款來約束護理人員的自由那護理人員其實比較單純比較單純比較涉世未深他們就覺得說那我們簽了這個違約金條款我們如果想要"},{"start":5066.75,"end":5085.681,"text":"在這個條款所約定的期限以內離職例如說條款提到說護理人員你應該在機構任職兩年如果你期限戒之前離職的話你就會被科以違約金那我們護理人員比較單純比較涉事衛生他們就會覺得說那我們既然簽了違約金條款那我們真的"},{"start":5088.022,"end":5115.664,"text":"在期限戒之前我們真的做不下去所以想離職了那我們也只好為了求順利離職也只好任陪了事這樣子好那現在問題來了就是說既然剛剛部長也有認知說所謂的最低年限計違約金條款他規定在勞基法第15條質疑您剛剛也提到說要用違約金條款來綁住勞工的離職自由是具有前提要件的那請問一下您有掌握是具備哪些前提要件嗎"},{"start":5116.385,"end":5123.511,"text":"我想事務之一上面就是有寫到嗎你要有培訓然後跟培訓費用然後還有簽約金"},{"start":5124.537,"end":5150.555,"text":"其實我們可以比較有體系的來講這些概念你要用違約金條款來綁住勞工離職自由你的違約金條款必須經過兩個要件的檢驗第一個要件就是違約金條款要有必要性第二個要件就是違約金條款要具有合理性那所謂的必要性就是雇主要付出相當的訓練成本然後把員工培訓成是一個不可或缺的人物"},{"start":5151.075,"end":5174.348,"text":"然後勞工的驟然離職會造成雇主的損失這時候雇主的利益才有需要以違約金條款來保障的必要這個叫做必要性那第二個合理性呢就是說你約束勞工的離職自由的年限要跟你所付出的訓練成本兩個要相當如果不相當的話就不具有合理性這樣那如果不整合掌握這兩個概念我們來操作一個實際的判決"},{"start":5177.47,"end":5191.805,"text":"這個實際的判決就是護理人員簽了一個違約金條款他必須在這家醫院任職滿兩年那如果提前離職的話就要賠償違約金兩個月結果這個護理人員真的是水土不服坐不下去然後要離職了這樣子那現在"},{"start":5193.426,"end":5211.14,"text":"院方他就提出了他們的訴求說你既然沒有做到兩年就離職那你要賠償我相當於兩個月薪水的違約金那我們來看一下院方怎麼主張院方他主張說我有對你進行新進人員的訓練課程那是這些兩年期的護理師的學習歷程那還有一些網路課程那又安排你去參加一些研習會跟研討會那請問一下我們剛有"},{"start":5220.287,"end":5246.985,"text":"操作過相關的定義了嘛你雇主必須是支付相當的訓練成本讓勞工成為不可替代的人選然後勞工的驟然離職會造成雇主的損失這時候勞工的利益雇主的利益才有必要以違約金條款來約束好那以這個具體來是事實來看部長你覺得這個雇主這個醫院雇主的利益有必要以違約金條款來加以保障嗎"},{"start":5249.349,"end":5272.069,"text":"那個跟委員說明因為第一個我就目前你這個簡報的左邊的這些相關的課程因為當然我不是護理的專業所以我不是那麼清楚知道你現在列的這些相關的課程是在護理的專業裡面它是不是一個必要或者是它是一個什麼樣定性的相關的課程這可能我也要去找"},{"start":5272.469,"end":5296.818,"text":"課程一定是必要我們講的必要性是指說雇主的利益有沒有必要以違約金條款來約束課程一定是必要所以我的意思是說因為你剛剛列的這些事情包括這課程包括雇主有沒有相關的支出它是不是一個最基本的就新到值的東西比方說它如果是最基本的法律要求的"},{"start":5297.578,"end":5305.61,"text":"跟還是說僱主也做更進一步額外進一步的培訓我自己不是護理的專業所以我比較沒有辦法從現在"},{"start":5308.172,"end":5335.757,"text":"其實部長你已經講到一個觀念了嘛它是不是一些必要的訓練例行性的訓練如果它是一個必要的訓練例行性的訓練那本來就是雇主你在經營一家醫院也好護理機構也好長照機構本來要負擔的基本的人事成本啊那本來就是雇主要負擔的那怎麼會把這個要負擔的基本的人事成本轉嫁在我們護理人員身上呢所以有沒有經過必要性的檢驗"},{"start":5336.917,"end":5361.891,"text":"部長可以再思考一下所以我說我這部分可能也要跟衛福部這邊來討論是這些課程的定性符不符合15-1他的前提的條件了解沒有問題那我也非常謝謝部長願意去跟衛福部來做一個專業上觀點的溝通那等一下馬上我們就會呈現司法的判決我們可以來聆聽法官對這件事怎麼看好那請問一下呢"},{"start":5363.872,"end":5369.939,"text":"我們接著來檢驗合理性那合理性當然定義已經有了嘛你付出這些新進人員的訓練成本然後去約束勞工兩年的離職自由那如果當中顯不相當例如說付出的錢非常的少"},{"start":5378.829,"end":5405.64,"text":"然後呢卻約束勞工兩年的離職自由那這樣會不會有顯不相當那如果顯不相當當然就不符合合理性那如果既不符合合理性又不符合必要性你用違約金條款來約束護理人員的自由那我想根據勞基法第15條之一這樣的違約金條款當然就是一個無效的條款來那部長請問一下你覺得這個違約金條款你目前看起來會是一個無效的違約金條款嗎"},{"start":5409.186,"end":5426.933,"text":"一樣是有專業嗎我確實沒有對護理的專業這麼了解所以我很難我自己就下一個怎樣的判斷了解通常這可能會進到法院裡面沒有問題那我們來看一下法院的判決那部長再跟我們分享對於法官的這個判斷是否能夠認同"},{"start":5428.493,"end":5446.545,"text":"那首先呢我們來講必要性的檢驗那法官就認為說這只是一個例行性的教育那不是為了這個特定的護理人員所製作並沒有額外的支出所謂的訓練成本而且有一些線上的課程這些課程其實都可以日後反覆的在使用其實這本來就是例行性的訓練"},{"start":5447.466,"end":5468.867,"text":"那雇主負擔的成本其實是很低的那所以難以認為說醫院有付出龐大的訓練成本讓這個護理人員成為不可替代的人選所以他的作然離職其實是不會造成醫院的損失所以這時候雇主的利益就沒有必要用違約金條款來保障這是必要性的檢驗法院的看法那第二個合理性的看法就是說這個訓練的費用其實都只是"},{"start":5471.089,"end":5494.848,"text":"一般的例行性的訓練 新進人員的訓練那你用這些例行性的訓練來約束護理人員兩年的離職自由然後他沒有達到兩年提前離職你又要科與他付一個違約金的義務這個兩個權衡之下顯不相當所以當然也沒有符合合理性所以這個案件最後就是違約金條款無效那既然違約金條款無效當然護理人員就不用賠償"},{"start":5495.709,"end":5519.336,"text":"但是回歸到我們的食物層面護理人員設施衛生也很單純那某個程度也是勞動教育的概念沒有非常的普及跟扎實所以他們為了順利的離職所以他們就認賠了事那部長對這件事的看法如何不知道勞動部這邊可以多做一些什麼事嗎跟委員說沒有其實我們之前也有在跟衛福部在討論是不是對於一些醫療業的"},{"start":5521.021,"end":5538.52,"text":"工作的現場包括他的人員有沒有可能其實跟會服務一起來合作那有更多這個關於勞動法規教育的機會包括宣導那讓大家其實能夠在這個法的框架下面能夠更加落實法尊"},{"start":5539.661,"end":5556.398,"text":"所以当然这是一个明确的判决明确判决那部长能够认同吗认为说这是例行性的训练然后雇主的利益没有必要用违约金条款来保障这个法院的判决就是判决我自己是认为说我们其实应该因为确实有很多法规的处理"},{"start":5557.219,"end":5582.725,"text":"包括行政的處理其實都會看法院的判決來作為一個重要的參考點所以我是說在這樣一個明確的法院的判決之下我想我們願意來跟衛夫婦來討論就是說是不是在怎麼樣狀況之下透過一個大家怎麼進一步的作為其實能夠讓法尊能夠更加落實那部長我想請問一下像這些濫用違約金條款的這個雇主啊請問勞基法相關的處罰是什麼"},{"start":5586.011,"end":5598.396,"text":"這條文老計法並沒有罰是老計法對於這條並沒有罰則那沒有罰則會有一個現象不公平的現象什麼現象呢如果護理人員傻傻的笨笨的陪下去醫院多賺到了一筆10萬塊的違約金如果護理人員不從的話"},{"start":5603.658,"end":5632.958,"text":"其實醫院沒有拿到他本來應該拿到的違約金他其實也沒有損失那濫用違約金條款的雇主等於他沒有成本啊他違法他濫用這種手段來約束護理人員約束護理人員的自由還讓護理人員平白無故從口袋掏出這個違約金條款反正成功了多賺一筆沒成功了也沒有損失但是這個濫用違約金條款雇主卻完全沒有成本所以我在這邊想要請教部長您是否覺得應該來建議一些法則"},{"start":5633.858,"end":5660.455,"text":"才能夠讓用違約金的僱主有一些這個成本要付出啊我覺得法規的討論當然法規要不要做更進一步優化我覺得這部分當然都可以來討論啦來看實際上面的需求但是我覺得就目前來看的話我自己還是比較希望是說大家針對包括是尤其是主管機關尤其很多醫院其實也是在"},{"start":5661.656,"end":5682.191,"text":"相關的世界單位主管機關的管轄之內不管要不要修法我認為都應該進一步有一些進一步的作為那您進一步作為是除了做勞動教育因為當你有提到勞動教育這個措施是很明確的日後想要來深化那請問一下還有哪一些作為"},{"start":5686.114,"end":5708.11,"text":"跟委員報告現在地方政府有時候去勞檢的時候他們有時候在醫院勞檢他們有時候也會去問所以或許我們也可以提醒地方政府將來做一些專案勞檢或深度勞檢順便去查一下他們提醒抽查幾位護理人員有沒有簽署這樣的一個條款然後去提醒業者這樣的約定是不是有預言無法"},{"start":5708.43,"end":5721.665,"text":"提醒其實就很像沒有牙齒的老虎而且可能不是沒有牙齒的老虎根本是小貓咪一隻完全沒有嚇阻的效力那我先分享一下我的做法本辦呢已經在大概一個月前就提出說要去修正勞基法79條"},{"start":5724.648,"end":5746.353,"text":"把濫用違約金條款的雇主呢作為79條裁罰的標的之一就是如果你濫用違約金條款就會出2萬元以上10萬元以下罰款那也許這個方向是不是可以帶勞動部帶回去研議那我接著再講第二件事情第二件事情就是說衛福部有出一個這個規則叫做醫療機構護理人員勞動契約建議應記載跟不得記載事項那這個"},{"start":5753.736,"end":5781.414,"text":"所謂的因記載跟不得記載事項裡頭有羅列了一些項目就是說醫院你跟護理人員簽訂勞動契約哪一些東西應該記載上去那我這邊建議如果既然沒有罰則既然沒有罰則是不是過渡期的做法當然我們日後希望有罰則過渡期的做法可不可以在這個因記載跟不得記載的這份文件裡頭要求要放入一個事項什麼事項呢就是"},{"start":5782.856,"end":5792.628,"text":"醫院或者是機構所為的例行性訓練或者是應該負擔的訓練成本不能夠作為雇主求償違約金的基礎"},{"start":5793.837,"end":5816.177,"text":"可以嗎第一個這個應該是衛福部當然我知道這是衛福部這是邱文達時期如果我沒有記錯是他弄出來的一個記載因記載會不得記載事項我想我們願意配合然後來提供我們的意見是那我覺得勞動部如果這邊願意支持這樣的一個建議的話當然我們有勞動部長的一個建議我們也許好好的可以去跟衛福部來溝通"},{"start":5818.903,"end":5838.236,"text":"所以您同意嗎我們現在最後來做一個總結就是說本辦想請你們提供資料但是其實沒有裁罰資料那我知道其實治安署的署長他上次有來我辦公室拜會他提到說雖然沒有裁罰資料但有一些輔導的資料所以可不可以"},{"start":5838.496,"end":5867.751,"text":"一些醫院濫用違約金條款沒有裁罰但有輔導的資料可不可以送到本辦一個月內提供那我們了解現在實務上到底濫用違約金條款的現象是如何這是第一件事那當然第二個就是說這個應記載跟不得記載事項能不能記載說例行性的或者是院方應該負擔的這個基本的雇主的訓練成本不能夠作為求償違約金的一個條款您剛也表示可以了嘛就是站在法尊的立場"},{"start":5868.231,"end":5886.176,"text":"當然啊法組長我們全台灣大家不是都依法行政嗎我想我們的政府也對於依法行政這四個字非常的崇尚所以我也是樂觀其成那當然另外一個就是建立裁罰機制那我請部長不要這麼快的否決待會去研議一下思考一下那有什麼難處我們再互相來交流來討論這樣子那謝謝部長謝謝部長的支持跟這個協助謝謝"},{"start":5893.609,"end":5913.89,"text":"好 謝謝邱副委員的質詢接下來請邱政軍委員在此宣告待會蘇志全委員質詢完畢後休息十分鐘主席好我們請一下洪部長好 邀請洪部長"},{"start":5929.514,"end":5942.639,"text":"這個我看到我們4月13號即將上路的這個家事移工新制那乍看之下是好事可是我突然仔細想想可是裡面好像很多的問題我在這邊請教我們部長我們決定這個開出一張144萬人的這個空投支票"},{"start":5950.441,"end":5975.174,"text":"那先讓我們的家長認為說有便宜的勞動力可以用那至於人從哪裡來勞動部好像也沒說明我們現在目前只管把這個門檻拆掉然後引發這個洗工潮讓原本照顧老人的看護都跑去照顧小孩那至於以後小孩怎麼長大台灣保母會不會失業那長照體系會不會崩盤"},{"start":5977.335,"end":5992.829,"text":"不是勞動部要關心的問題數據好看比較重要那我看到衛福部的報告他承認我們承認這個國家一起養這個小孩子這個牛皮吹破了"},{"start":5993.737,"end":6017.643,"text":"既然公托蓋不夠 本國保母又太貴那我們決定棄守專業照護的底線反正只要把這批移工定義為家務幫傭 而非專業保母未來家裡出事就不歸衛福部管我們只負責發幾份數位教材 求個新安至於144萬個小孩的成長品質跟本土托育產業的崩潰"},{"start":6019.503,"end":6034.475,"text":"那是家庭的私事與市場的競爭請大家自求多福那從這兩份書面報告我們可以看到政府的政策現在已經簡化到只要有人看小孩讓大人去工廠或辦公室上班就是成功的政策"},{"start":6035.636,"end":6061.569,"text":"至於小孩照顧得好不好那本國保母有沒有飯吃國家這個養了這個政策是否名存實亡在4月1號的報告裡面都沒有看到具體的解決方案那我先請教衛福部你們現在這個定調勞動政策說家務幫庸不涉及專業托育請教一下你有沒有去過任何一個家裡有小孩同時又請了移工的家庭你看過他們的真實生活嗎"},{"start":6062.569,"end":6086.009,"text":"在你們這種表格化的這個腦袋裡世界是切開來的這一男是移工的廚房洗碗煮飯掃地這叫勞動部的勞動政策另一男是小孩在哭那在爬要換尿布這叫衛福部的這個社政業務但現實生活中這兩件事是分開的只要家裡有小孩移工的手都會隨時都會觸碰到那我再請問就是說"},{"start":6088.12,"end":6098.216,"text":"在這個萬一這個事情成真之後我們這個一百四十四萬個家庭當中如果發生了嚴重移工裂銅的案件這是屬於誰要負責的"},{"start":6103.004,"end":6119.184,"text":"包委員我還是再重申一次委員剛剛所說的我覺得可能會有一些些小小偏頗我必須要跟委員報告所有這些政策其實基本上大概都是一攬子的一個政策對於這些部分我們有我們有津貼"},{"start":6120.205,"end":6138.516,"text":"我們有公托我們也需要給家長時間這是現在目前全世界在推行有關於這個對育兒家庭最重要事實上就是有這些綜合的政策工序我請問衛福部衛福部對本土的保母當初的要求是要受訓要訪視 要進行考核衛福部說要專業嘛 沒錯要管得到我們這個也及時 現在針對這144萬的家庭如果引進外籍幫佣你說這個部分你怎麼處理"},{"start":6148.437,"end":6174.81,"text":"包委員這兩個並不是互相替代的啊這互相是補充的這不是互相替代是互相是補充的那他不會照顧到小孩嗎那你請你給這些家庭請這些外勞的用意是什麼包委員我們現在目前容我在他不會你請過來請過來你現在是年齡限制12歲以下嘛對不對包委員讓我再簡單說明一下我們現在目前對家庭照顧有三個層次一個叫teacher"},{"start":6175.43,"end":6202.561,"text":"第二個呢是有關baby sister另外第三個叫housekeeper這三個是不一樣的但是三個不一樣其實大家每一個家庭你一個家庭他有辦法處理這麼多人嗎他有辦法這樣有辦法消化嗎因為他領的錢他有辦法去做這麼多的事情嗎包委所以我們現在每一個家庭都有不同的階段都有他們不同的需求所以我覺得這裡面事實上是我們應該要有一個所謂那我請問這些幫傭他能不能照顧小孩"},{"start":6205.525,"end":6225.044,"text":"這些外勞 外勞 外勞報告委員喔 讓我再重複一下我就這樣問嘛 他如果能夠照顧小孩 那是不是就要照你的規定外勞工作內容大概有幾個部分嘛 是房舍清理嘛 食物烹調 家庭成員他也要照顧他的起居所以他當然 請這個當然是子女啊對 他要不要領保母證照"},{"start":6229.429,"end":6244.36,"text":"他是邦庸,所以他跟保姆是不一樣的所以我剛剛就講,一個是housekeeper,一個是major sitter你怎麼去界定這個事情,我這樣講因為邦庸,這個外勞請到家裡你怎麼去限制他說,這個不能碰,那個不能碰你懂我意思嗎"},{"start":6246.817,"end":6267.058,"text":"其實現在大家對保姆的專業期待很高,比方說他的健康照顧,甚至是他的發展的支持,就是小孩的早期發展的引導,甚至也包括一些輕職上面的顧問,或者是輕職上面的協助。"},{"start":6267.959,"end":6288.708,"text":"當然這些事情都是現在專業保姆裡面被期待賦予的一些專業的角色這些工作當然是外籍幫傭無法做的啊對啦我現在要講的就是說我發現的問題點所以提醒你們我現在是提醒你們你們要把這個事情釐清把它做得清楚一點寫得清楚一點就像我部長我還再請教就像你現在講話我再問你一個問題"},{"start":6291.189,"end":6299.915,"text":"就是說我們今天的這項政策是要讓家長安心去工作嘛提高我們的勞動力對吧那邏輯上申請人應該都要在職場對吧"},{"start":6301.584,"end":6323.18,"text":"我沒有看到我們要申請的時候,我只看到要戶口名簿、要申請表、身障罕見證明、罕病證明那你們沒有寫說這兩個人的在職證明或者是勞保紀錄吧?你們要提供嗎?第一個,其實的確現在大部分來跟我們要求、希望來申請的"},{"start":6324.24,"end":6339.557,"text":"絕大部分的確都是雙性家庭這是確定的但你沒有限制啊可是你沒寫清楚啊我們的資格的條件就是現在就是以12歲以下的小孩現在就是報告上沒寫嘛我現在提醒你"},{"start":6341.577,"end":6364.103,"text":"對 我就舉例啦 一個家庭他是這個收出工媽媽是專業貴婦 兩個名下財產過億喔如果沒有工作需求他就可以天天遊山玩水那家裡有一個10歲以下的小孩子他就可以申請嘛 對不對那如果這樣對我們的這個提高的勞動力好像一點幫助都沒有啊你跟我意思嗎第一個我還是要說"},{"start":6366.704,"end":6382.349,"text":"我們剛剛在講到其實現在絕大多數來表達希望申請的確都是雙薪家庭那這個雙薪家庭他有他在工作跟家務分配上面這樣的需求你們的出發點是對的那我剛剛提醒你說你沒有剛剛沒有限制這個項目的時候你這個這個所謂的這個增加勞動的這個政策啊會變成富人管家的補助計畫"},{"start":6394.775,"end":6412.99,"text":"委員其實你在兩年前你也要求我們要研議開放我覺得是好事啊請我們研議要開放邦庸啊對對對我沒有反對我現在不是反對我的意思是說當年你們的規則你們的審查資格都沒有寫清楚你懂我意思嗎"},{"start":6414.531,"end":6433.648,"text":"原本是三個小孩六歲以下這的確在現代的家庭結構裡面是過度嚴格的所以我們希望能夠把它放寬那在這個放寬的過程裡面第一個我們針對如果是弱勢比方說如果家長是生長或者是小孩的狀況是早療或者是發展遲緩"},{"start":6435.069,"end":6460.411,"text":"包括這些東西我們都做了優先的配套的設計時間沒很多啦我其實我是支持這個政策但是我希望你們把這個政策的規則寫清楚不要到時候搞得亂七八糟的好不好我們會把配套做好那再來我想請部長請回我想請這個行政院理副秘書長人總我們的理處長保訓會蔡處長"},{"start":6466.601,"end":6484.927,"text":"我先請教你們三位就是代表我們台灣公務體系最核心的人事與法治單位那我先請教您你們在過去的公務生涯當中有沒有親自擔任過職場霸凌小組的調查委員或親自撰寫過這個霸凌案的這個認定報告"},{"start":6488.091,"end":6513.003,"text":"有沒有去擔任過跟委員報告那我擔任過調查委員但是我沒有寫過調查報告對因為我看到你們你們有講到就是說現在行政院是外聘四個嘛對不對外聘四個這個調查委員那我請教一下這四個裡面是誰在做主還是行政院另外有派人"},{"start":6514.57,"end":6527.718,"text":"跟委員報告那這一次的調查小組的話我們四位都是外聘委員那沒有內部委員沒有內部委員那誰為主導呢誰為主導啊如果他們四個調查回來兩個說有問題兩個又說沒有那怎麼辦"},{"start":6533.883,"end":6554.452,"text":"調查小組是四個人他會分工共同調查但是出那個報告的話是四個人共同出一份報告沒有出四份報告那他們如果四個人在講四個人都講不好怎麼辦四個人他們自己內部會有開會那他們會協調出共同的結論會討論出一個共同的那你們就會照做嗎"},{"start":6560.554,"end":6586.061,"text":"我們會照做嗎你們會照他們的報告做嗎因為這一次就是為了要公正跟客觀為了要釐清事實的真相所以我們自己的內部委員是沒有介入調查的那對於他的報告我們當然會信任跟尊重對啦 我不希望說這四個大家調查到後來然後沒有一個結論到時候又不了了之"},{"start":6587.081,"end":6615.5,"text":"不會那到時候誰要介入是你們介入還是誰介入他是這樣的他的過程中的話現在由調查小組先去調查那調查完以後會出一份調查報告出稿那這個要多久你們現在調查要多久依照規定的時限是兩個月必要可以延長一個月但是院長昨天已經宣示了我們會盡量在規定兩個月的期限內完成報告好那我們就靜待報告了好謝謝"},{"start":6618.494,"end":6631.572,"text":"謝謝邱政軍委員的質詢 接下來請蘇清泉委員質詢重新宣告待會劉建國委員質詢完畢後休息10分鐘"},{"start":6634.192,"end":6662.495,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我請行政院副秘書長好 請副秘書長好 還有沒有 李建德次長李建德次長還有人事處的陳崑源好 人事處我也好好副秘書長你是事務官事務官所以你是公務體系幾乎最高的嘛是你對公務人員有沒有疼惜的心"},{"start":6664.128,"end":6677.819,"text":"我們自己是公務體系的人員,我們對公務人員當然會有疼惜的心啊你不要這樣,政務官拍拍屁股就走人啦所以沒在插插,你會怎麼樣來,我今天要問的是我們公務人員的體檢一般有3500跟4500嘛,對不對"},{"start":6683.972,"end":6709.62,"text":"那如果高強度的,譬如說錦霄、海巡、空巡、台鐵司機,這裡就不要講台鐵司機那這個就是一年一次,其他兩年一次嘛三千五到四千五啦,副理事長你知不知道?知!知!那三千五要做什麼檢查?是要去量身高體重、抽抽血?"},{"start":6712.199,"end":6733.611,"text":"我的印象裡面這幾年我們已經人事總署這部分已經逐年逐年在調整我參考日本的公務體系他們是非常的嚴謹金額也很高體檢完之後如果有紅字有不正常的他們就會再追蹤"},{"start":6735.012,"end":6761.912,"text":"那我們這邊是三千五、四千五,你自己找便宜,放股吃草,人流跌倒出來,怎樣也不能追蹤。我覺得這一塊比不上勞保,我們勞動部在我們洪部長的這個柔韌之下,我們這些事業單位大家都很怕命,還有什麼職安護理師、職安什麼師什麼師,"},{"start":6763.837,"end":6786.978,"text":"Data出來又有問題 追耶 一直追所以我在想 我們這個國務卿館 每次都要試 課還要做情緒還要吃雞 每次都要用早餐每次都要出事情 我是覺得這個你們要好好的思考至少參考日本一下嘛 如果沒有就叫勞動部來幫我們支度嘛"},{"start":6788.823,"end":6796.006,"text":"我覺得公務人員我沒有預測將來考公務人員高考的人會越來越少"},{"start":6805.502,"end":6826.864,"text":"會越來越少你看看今年的大學那個第一階段現在已經可以收到84%今年要收的大學的入企新生他占了84%然後各位看到那些AI的電子的全部都在前面很高"},{"start":6827.99,"end":6840.068,"text":"你做公務人員,還有什麼將來想,我看這間公務人員,他們站到的,就要自己提撥自己什麼,我看那個條件越來越差,那你自己當副秘書長,你就要想一下,"},{"start":6841.963,"end":6865.4,"text":"我們衛生部的理事長,你聽到醫療界的角度,這種體檢,只做一個Low-Dose的CT就要4000塊,你用3000塊,你真的是要叫他去喝咖啡,增高體重量一量,抽抽血,還要這樣而已,一些Straight的Check啦,一些心血管的Check,你看我怎麼樣?"},{"start":6868.977,"end":6892.613,"text":"國務委員我其實我是來衛福部學習啦 也來委員學習嘛我是覺得 委員你所關心這個 我覺得是真的 我們公務人員真的這麼辛苦 我想這個都可以來研究啦 謝謝所有公務人員都是國家 國家是雇主那你用這種心態 應付應付的 然後一天到晚再出事"},{"start":6894.074,"end":6900.588,"text":"尤其是精神上的壓力的好像今天太多人在講這個霸凌的事情一件接一件"},{"start":6901.943,"end":6927.716,"text":"那都是精神壓力,那個比獅子的壓力還大所以我覺得我們行政單位還有我們行政院一定要這個方面考量你最高的文官你可以一年是一萬六嘛跟比照立委嘛,可以保留一年兩年一起做所以比較做高階很實際的,很實際的真的是抓到重點不然的話對這些公務人員是不公平"},{"start":6928.656,"end":6943.528,"text":"真的不公平,那我今天不講那個霸凌,霸凌講太多了,沒有意思啦,健康好不好,我看到太多的警察就心急梗塞,我在屏東就看到好幾個,連屏東選舉委員會的主秘也是暴斃,猝死,怕死人"},{"start":6950.934,"end":6977.214,"text":"所以我都說他們那是無形的壓力啦所以那如果又加上人委去跟他那個,那更不得了所以怎麼衛部跟人事總署這邊看看有沒有一個formula你要做基本的檢查做心血管的,做癌症指數的種種做金額要大幅提高我為了三千四、四千五,要救死人啊"},{"start":6979.11,"end":6996.096,"text":"我們勞保的公司好像有的都加得很高,自己加嘛這個是,員工就是最大的資產嘛你們沒有把你們的員工當作資產,我覺得我一點都沒有感受到福民省,你不說兩句"},{"start":6999.761,"end":7014.322,"text":"我們謝謝委員提醒了我們公務員健康檢查這個機制的相關問題這個議題對我們所有的公務員其實是非常重要的那我們原先的時候也是從零開始然後慢慢逐步逐步的建立"},{"start":7014.983,"end":7028.71,"text":"那目前委員對於這個金額部分呢就是一般年齡還沒到了同仁的時候三千五、四千五這個金額的部分的時候有所關心嘛那會後的話我們會把這個議題帶回去我們會請人事總署的時候跟有關機關一起來研議一下"},{"start":7035.393,"end":7047.638,"text":"好,就是壓力檢查,stress check,再來就是吸血管,再來就是精神過勞,好不好研究一下,我會給各位對,謝謝,我們請回,請回第二個提問我請部長,洪部長我已經15分鐘了,再來啦,你去選館長"},{"start":7064.379,"end":7076.016,"text":"來,你現在這個12歲以下你跟美賴總統跟你的最原始的想法我想是不是因為我們台灣的女性的"},{"start":7077.093,"end":7084.139,"text":"像我們醫院的夫妻都是臨床醫師啦像我辦公室的助理也是這樣啊他們都是雙薪所以我說你用這個12歲以下我覺得非常好啊非常好"},{"start":7103.559,"end":7108.619,"text":"非常好 講三次你們的起心是怎麼樣 起心動念是怎麼樣"},{"start":7110.727,"end":7134.297,"text":"其實這個政策當然它是我們也在面對現在的家庭結構跟過去其實不同所以過去的家庭的型態會有比較多長輩的後援那現在比較少那現在雙薪家庭也是主流所以我們最大的政策的目的就是希望能夠讓很多的雙薪家庭勞工朋友其實可以安心的工作然後家庭可以減壓這是最重要的"},{"start":7134.797,"end":7155.994,"text":"像我們醫院有 我講一個例子 夫妻都是臨床醫師然後一個小孩是七歲 一個是三歲那早上就會送到學校嘛 國小一個 國小一個在小班嘛那下午下課 哇完蛋了 幾位狗跳 沒有人去接孩子"},{"start":7157.737,"end":7180.877,"text":"所以就請家庭的幫傭,就是下午來上班接小孩,然後給他準備晚餐,然後家裡的一些幫傭的事情事實上他們沒有在照顧小孩,他們是把他接回來,先去洗洗,看一會兒回家然後爸爸媽媽有可能七點八點,有可能九點才回來"},{"start":7181.778,"end":7210.215,"text":"因為有時候要開刀啊什麼的所以這個他找台灣的這個幫傭不好找耶在高雄要很累耶夜間比較尤其是晚上特別困難到爸爸媽媽回來之後他就下班了對 晚上的部分特別難找從四點到八點多九點那所以這個幫傭 外籍幫傭進來我覺得是非常非常有需要"},{"start":7211.277,"end":7232.208,"text":"那你以前是六歲以下三個,那不可能的事啦他有可能六歲以下生三個,那不少的他有可能,所以你現在這個,那是很好而且現在外籍的移工,大家都在搶人欸條件要過好唯一的就是一個要繳五千塊的救安基金,先過啦"},{"start":7235.273,"end":7253.639,"text":"這個救安費當然原本就是五千塊啦但是我們有針對如果特殊家庭或者是家長有身障那或者是家裡的照顧需求特別高的比方說小孩如果有兩個小孩其中一個是六歲以下的話都可以把五千塊降到兩千塊這不是有殘障的有什麼有問題的啦"},{"start":7256.88,"end":7278.168,"text":"就是說家長單親或者是生長,假設有生長的話那他可能特別辛苦,我們也希望降低他的負擔,把他的救援費減下來我覺得如果家庭很辛苦的,或者是有真的殘障的,是不是不收也可以啦兩千塊,你寫兩千塊,搞得人家不聽話,家大業大"},{"start":7281.718,"end":7307.265,"text":"我爸爸也是一宿一宿我們大概都會有一個這個分層次的市長市長你聽到沒有?對啊,殘障還要更加嚴重,滿有人太大壓力了這個大家都在為這件事打拚,尤其我們女性的勞動力,我再講一次素質都很高、學歷都很高、能力都很強,這些人擋在家裡,我是覺得可惜啦"},{"start":7308.105,"end":7325.331,"text":"所以這個來補充而且是真的有需要所以你這個政策我給你肯定在野黨肯定你 你要拍手加油 謝謝好 謝謝蘇清玄委員接下來請劉建平委員自選好 謝謝主席二位理事"},{"start":7336.809,"end":7352.136,"text":"你不用上來 你當我事情一個禮拜再不處理我就請這個主席來排專報再不行 我就直接拜託主席直接到你們那個衛務部去考察好 謝謝來 接下來請部長好 有請黃部長均如細言 小心一點"},{"start":7362.219,"end":7389.958,"text":"我們農政部推的在你主政之下育嬰假的這個新制嘛那女性的申請率從原本的72.2降為到55.6看圖表那這個少了16.6的這樣的一個成績啦雖然是一個突破但還是有56.6的女性能有請育嬰假的這樣的需求顯示照顧的兒童的責任還是以女性為主嘛這個不為過嘛對不對"},{"start":7390.979,"end":7410.182,"text":"然後主計總署跟衛護部的統計近年婦女層因為結婚而離子的主因以被孕或懷孕為最大中將近快40%左右2023年這個媒體又做出相關的報導台灣女性就有33萬人因為要照顧家庭而退出勞動市場"},{"start":7411.543,"end":7428.075,"text":"他怎麼統計怎麼基礎然後年齡到幾歲這個就要你們這邊來做相關的這樣的一個調查評估不過33萬在對照那一次在這邊提出職選的時候一年流失了13萬3左右"},{"start":7429.722,"end":7447.482,"text":"顯然這個數據越看是越恐怖但是基本基礎這個有時間再做討論所以不論是育嬰假還是今天召委安排的專報我想都是要解決照顧離子的問題讓女性可以安心續留讓台灣的女性勞工可以安心續留"},{"start":7448.43,"end":7477.93,"text":"我們是不是要對比你對外勞的安心續留的相關的因應這個措施跟這樣的一個政策是不是要有所做一些處理了不管是生了育女的方式有十種類別的這樣的一個勞動的一個情況他可能就有十種的選擇一定會有孕婦或母親選擇離開職場在一段的時間內全身心的來專心帶孕或陪伴孩子的成長"},{"start":7478.97,"end":7496.844,"text":"但也或許就是這一段時間的陪伴,當小孩進入小學或中學時,女性就應該能夠重回職場。但部長可以看這張圖表,這是從台灣、日本、南韓、新加坡、美國、瑞典。這個圖表,部長可以看,台灣的這個曲線圖,長得就特別不一樣。"},{"start":7502.452,"end":7521.609,"text":"它到了77點,應該是這麼講,在高點是89.9,然後就每況愈下,然後到了26這個地方,這個曲線跟,你在對照南海,南海有一年,它是往上升的。"},{"start":7522.791,"end":7537.897,"text":"往上升的那其他各國它是維持穩定的一段時間可能平均都還要在應該是81到86左右它可能到近幾年它才是最適合這樣下跌這個曲線圖給部長做一個參考"},{"start":7543.179,"end":7566.991,"text":"我提供這個表是說從30歲就直直往下掉底下還有歲數的一個標誌然後對比其他國家30歲雖然各國也都有明顯往下降的趨勢但40歲左右都好像還會再回升一下會再回升然後以安穩為例剛剛特別提到就曲線最明顯連鄰近的日本也是這個樣子"},{"start":7568.132,"end":7581.622,"text":"所以政府希望女性不用照顧兒離子但這群離子的女性願意重回職長時那應該是整個國家社會求之不得的一個勞動力嘛對不對那怎麼台灣反而是回不去了"},{"start":7583.399,"end":7586,"text":"所以勞動部在規劃婦女再就業計畫從112年到9月1號到今年的8月31號為止鼓勵婦女自主訓練精進原有職能訓練完成並辦理求職登記就發給2萬的獎金如果訓練完成180內經推介"},{"start":7603.703,"end":7628.647,"text":"推介就業或自行就業者再發給一萬元也就是說成功的訓練完成並在180天內完成就業的再就業的婦女就可以拿到三萬元這是一個好的政策啦這是一個好的政策那是怎麼還會這個最危險的下降然後剛剛對照圖表台灣女性30歲之後就難以再回到職場所以我覺得這三萬塊是不是不夠"},{"start":7630.305,"end":7633.689,"text":"因為今年8月31號就要結束了,白宮部會再升級婦女債就業2.0嗎?"},{"start":7635.882,"end":7664.599,"text":"根本說明其實我們近期其實是如火如荼在討論跟研議針對這個婦女在就業計劃要有一個升級版那在講的原因也是剛才就像委員剛才說的我們的確看到臺灣的這個二讀就業婦女重回職場的比率相比於其他的國家其實還是比較偏低的所以看起來我們的確可能在一些條件上面會需要更加的放寬或者力道也要加大這是我們"},{"start":7665.439,"end":7671.905,"text":"接下來 我想應該近期就會來跟外界報告自主訓練獎勵啦 從原有的3萬你們是2加1啦 2萬加1萬嘛 對不對然後有沒有機會變成4加2"},{"start":7678.84,"end":7705.497,"text":"就變成到6萬跟我們說明確實我們在考慮剛剛原本是2加1嘛那接下來我們也在思考是不是加碼到就是委員講的這個數字就4加2嘛對好不好我們就朝這個方向來努力了我們來努力我們願意我願意朝這個數字來努力這個應該一個月內可以來做決定吧我希望更快我們不只是鼓勵這個我們所有的婦女的就業2.0就他們的這樣的"},{"start":7708.098,"end":7733.908,"text":"可以回到職場再持續的來貢獻這樣的一個勞動力除此之外鼓勵勞工我們也要鼓勵企業嘛那你們企業是這樣就除了獎勵護女在就業外針對這些聘用在就業的企業老東部也給予一個月值缺是3000塊每月3000塊的獎勵啦最長是12個月嘛對不對那也讓這些鼓勵配合我們政策的這些企業老東部是不是也一併要加碼"},{"start":7735.909,"end":7751.201,"text":"跟委員說的確因為除了錢以外我們也在檢討他的一些機制那這個機制裡面我們也看到其實很多二度就業的婦女他從會知道他有他在工時上面的期待跟需求譬如說他會比較希望他的工時不一定是那麼長"},{"start":7752.342,"end":7772.821,"text":"或者是有一些工时因人而异的调整的空间所以我们的确也在研议如果企业愿意来协助二路最后的妇女在做工时的调整或相关的支持措施的话我们也会加码这个奖励金这部分也是我们在规划研议的其中一个重要的部分"},{"start":7773.241,"end":7799.09,"text":"就是等於婦女再就業的2.0版針對女性勞工也針對願意配合的這些企業我剛才講的部分就給企業企業願意給予勞工彈性跟工時的一些調整的機制我們就願意支持企業好 那我們就4月底前了4月底是 OK就已經答應了是 沒問題不要是因為今天是4月1號好 謝謝來 再來我們再看請部長看勞工職場尊嚴"},{"start":7801.232,"end":7817.704,"text":"2024的一個屏東地院的判決等一下再看到2025的一個宜蘭的判決這罵星巴克的員工智障然後你奧克在用冰拿鐵去潑臉然後標罵 做標罵兩分鐘的王插蛋還有怒罵店員XX娘"},{"start":7820.285,"end":7848.885,"text":"挨告後或判無罪法官說妨礙名譽非彰化罪台灣什麼時候有彰化罪我不太懂就是罵彰化不等同於應該是講說罵彰化不等同於妨礙不等同於妨礙名譽的罪責這個是下面我就不再贅述了他說這個人雖然罵了勞工之後口出惡言但妨礙名譽非彰化所以如果因此判有罪法院會變成怎麼道德救察隊也就是過度干涉個人"},{"start":7849.878,"end":7863.628,"text":"干涉被告個人羞恿介入干涉被告個人羞恿或言行品味的私的領域這已遠於該罪的正當的保護目的我實在不太清楚這是什麼樣的一個說辭那部長有什麼看法"},{"start":7868.247,"end":7883.752,"text":"如果按照這個敘述的話,其實這當然已經是,可能是有這個不法侵害,職場不法侵害的狀況了,對。有不法侵害的狀況嘛,對不對?對。好,那應該像這樣的一個消費者,這樣的一個顧客,應該受到什麼樣的懲處?什麼樣的處罰?"},{"start":7887.925,"end":7899.54,"text":"根委員報告 在治安法裡面目前是要求僱主要對勞工可能遭受不法侵害採取預防的措施採取預防的措施 現在發生了"},{"start":7901.03,"end":7917.603,"text":"然後我們的勞工去告了罵他的對象那法院又就這樣處理不是只有這一案還有依然一案依然入罵超商店員就王插蛋什麼東西法官以認定為是公然侮辱這兩個20分鐘"},{"start":7923.578,"end":7935.874,"text":"店內當時沒有其他人,縱使言語過於粗鄙,令人心生不快,但冒犯及影響程度尚屬輕微,最多算是修養欠佳,因不足以貶損女店員的社會名譽或名譽人格。"},{"start":7943.249,"end":7969.804,"text":"那你們現在處理方式,照我們的食安法的處理方式還是針對雇主嘛對不對最近這一案怎麼處理統一那個職場怎麼處理各位說明因為相關的法源因為食安法的整部法的這個施行的邏輯裡面最重要的其實就是可以雇主的責任那當然如果對於顧客的部分當然這部分可能就會進入到司法司法的處理跟判決"},{"start":7971.126,"end":7982.24,"text":"我今天就是要跟部長討論這個事情如果針對勞工受到顧客不當的傷害的情況之下那我們的職安法裡面只有針對"},{"start":7984.013,"end":8005.825,"text":"向顧主來做是不是有教育訓練是不是有防暴力的指引防範的責任他都有做了假設他都有做了這個勞工又被傷害了然後又到法院去訴訟這樣的一個法律訴訟的情況之下又被法官做這樣的一個判決無罪的判決"},{"start":8011.124,"end":8017.533,"text":"那你覺得我們這個治安法是不是有輸入之處還是有修正的空間"},{"start":8020.326,"end":8038.457,"text":"我引用這兩個例子跟引用統一的這個例子你們最終還是去做這樣的處理當然你必須要做這樣的處理是不是有教育訓練是不是有環抱相關的指引如果沒有就是告發了嘛對不對那勞工被傷害了勞工被傷害的回復正義誰來幫助他們來主張誰來幫他們回復"},{"start":8042.819,"end":8067.424,"text":"跟各位說明因為職安法整部法它設計的原意就是在處理職場裡面因為職場的指揮或權力關係所造成的傷害所以整個職安法它其實比較絕大部分的對象就是科與僱主相關的責任這是職安法的邏輯可是現在因為現在遇到的是員工跟顧客員工跟消費者之間第三者的關係"},{"start":8068.444,"end":8082.551,"text":"他其實就這個消費者跟員工之間他可能就不是一個雇主跟員工之間的這樣的從屬或指揮的關係下的確會有些部分不容易用責任法去規範到所以就必須回到我們其他的也許刑事法規上面去處理"},{"start":8083.638,"end":8102.492,"text":"但是現在就是我跟部長提起的這兩個案件基本上那個受傷受暴力對待受言語暴力對待的勞工通通沒有辦法在法院得到正義上的彰顯嘛所以我才會回到未完委員會來垂詢部長我們該不該面對這個問題該不該來幫助這些在職場上受到傷害的勞工"},{"start":8113.783,"end":8133.637,"text":"這一塊已經碰壁了對不對那這一塊你們處理就是針對僱主那受傷勞工他要找誰能不能大家冷靜來思考這件事情這個事情層出不窮啊訴出懷孕又無解啊又做出這樣的解釋啊那怎麼處理"},{"start":8136.319,"end":8159.491,"text":"跟委員報告現在在我們這一次的治安法的修法也有提到這個要調查跟處理他雖然是外部的一個人員那我們認為說在後續事情發生後僱主應該還是要提供有關於剛剛法律的一個協助還有心理諮商的一些諮詢協助這個是在我們法上可以要求僱主來做的"},{"start":8160.932,"end":8170.858,"text":"懷慮的協助我不曉得這兩個案例這個雇主有沒有協助即便有協助判決就這樣對不對即便有協助判決就這樣那雇主有協助啊"},{"start":8173.789,"end":8190.864,"text":"那個委員我覺得我們可能的確會需要,也許需要跟法務部來討論一些相關是不是有在怎麼樣來協助像這樣子案例的更進一步的可能,我懂委員的意思啦就是說既有的法規確實是有些受限,在這樣的案例裡面有些受限"},{"start":8191.425,"end":8196.11,"text":"我們針對醫護人員在急診的暴力我們也經過好幾年的討論然後節節的提高相關的這樣的一個法則然後對應的方法 沒錯那勞工的職場何嘗不是他在職業中遇到的暴力的傷害不管言語 不管是行為 對不對"},{"start":8212.445,"end":8230.862,"text":"那我們怎麼沒有去思考所以委員我想針對不法侵害的概念尤其是如果這樣幾個判例或者是案例出來我們可以綜合思考說是不是有些地方可以再更多強化有更多的保護不過的確這個可能要找法務部這邊大家來做一些討論這樣子"},{"start":8231.943,"end":8250.85,"text":"對啦 我們不應該說醫事人員在執行這個業務的時候遇到的相關的一些暴力我們就有相關的規範 法則去作為處理護理也是勞工的對象啊他們在衛務部這邊就有這樣的一個處置啊那整體各類別的勞工遇到這樣在執業的過程"},{"start":8253.271,"end":8267.091,"text":"受到這樣的不可侵賴 言語 行為 相關的暴力然後訴諸法律 求助無門的情況之下那我們只是針對雇主 去說你有沒有做教育訓練你有沒有做相關的一些職業 如果沒有我就跟你告發那對那個勞工情何以堪"},{"start":8269.727,"end":8288.12,"text":"而且我們來正視這個問題啦好不好當然好也請部長一個月內可以吧來研擬相關的營運措施保護勞工在職業過程中不應該再受到這樣的一個傷害啦是好 謝謝好 謝謝主席 謝謝好 謝謝劉建國委員的發言謝謝侯生漢部長現在休息十分鐘"},{"start":8892.366,"end":8912.843,"text":"好 現在開始開會繼續開會現在請王業民委員質詢謝謝主席 我們先請行政院副秘書長 李副秘書長請副秘書長委員好"},{"start":8922.469,"end":8939.623,"text":"今天這個委員會排葬的專案其中很關切的就是有關於霸凌的議題那這一個大家都很痛心委員會新副代表他這個去世的消息那大家也想要知道真相那昨天我在院會質詢的時候"},{"start":8941.184,"end":8969.499,"text":"其實就有直接問院長那這個昨天楊珍妮代表她沒有上台接受質詢但是她有跟媒體說她跟副代表這個生前互動是良好的但是隨即呢昨天下午就有顏慧欣的友人出來說顏慧欣從3月12號去世到3月29號骨灰入塔"},{"start":8970.819,"end":8992.086,"text":"這個楊珍妮代表連一通慰問電話都沒有我想請教李副秘書長就行政院掌握到的情況是這樣子嗎各位報告這個部分我們沒有獲得訊息所以你們也不清楚我們不清楚那行政院有派人去關心嗎慰問家屬也不清楚這個不清楚"},{"start":9000.638,"end":9020.594,"text":"這個我覺得行政院你們掌握能力好像也太弱了吧這個事情發生到現在你今天要來委員會那畢竟這個顏慧欣是副代表也是一個很重要的職務那發生這樣子的事情我覺得行政院總該有人實際去關心慰問一下吧結果你今天來委員會你們都不清楚"},{"start":9020.794,"end":9044.565,"text":"不過如同昨天委員執行院長的時候院長當下接到幕僚的訊息的時候他就有表達他的關心但我是說從知道他3月12號就是去世到3月29號中間行政院都沒有派人再去慰問跟關心家屬這個部分我們不清楚"},{"start":9045.319,"end":9063.765,"text":"完全不清楚那你們就是完全沒有掌握我想這件事情外界這麼關心就是我們希望我們公務人員在公務體系裡面大家得到都是一個友善的職場那如果連顏惠欣這麼高職務的一個副代表他可能都會來自上級長官的一個霸凌"},{"start":9064.345,"end":9076.718,"text":"然後抑鬱難生我覺得這件事情真的是值得大家來關注那今天我就要問就是事實上根據你們的公務人員執行安全及衛生的防護辦法裡面第35條這個保訊會在報告裡面也寫得非常清楚當你們"},{"start":9084.286,"end":9095.195,"text":"知道職場霸凌的情況不一定要申訴就是你們其實是可以採取一些調查的行動的這個是在今天的報告裡面有講到那我就要問副秘書長這一條有在落實嗎如果以顏慧欣的個案事實上她在辭職信裡面就有提到這個會被嚴厲的訓斥這樣的一個情況"},{"start":9107.426,"end":9125.568,"text":"那看起來這個也沒有處理第二件其實是於大雷案我昨天其實也問了這個院長那是在我一再的逼問底下院長才指示說希望外交部可以去了解那之前外交部是不想了解他說沒有人透過正式的申訴管道"},{"start":9126.129,"end":9148.757,"text":"他說沒有這一案媒體報導的這麼清楚但是外交部的回應是說因為沒有正式投訴所以他就採取不告不理就是沒有申訴人所以他就當作沒有發生但是按照你們的這個辦法裡面你們35條你們是可以主動去調查的那為什麼之前外交部這樣的一個態度"},{"start":9150.197,"end":9172.07,"text":"這個我們行政院沒有主動去要求他應該要先去了解啊包括這20名的這個清潔工還有這個外交人員這個被當工友使喚等等這些情況你們應該是可以要求外交部要主動了解為什麼也沒做這個動作是我昨天質詢才要求院長應該要這樣子下指令的"},{"start":9174.329,"end":9191.32,"text":"這個是屬於外交部的權責但是辦法裡面講他們也是公務人員35條不是說你們可以主動去掌握就我們行政院院本部的防治作業要點裡面的話我們對於知悉的話我們是會下去釐清事實"},{"start":9192.02,"end":9204.554,"text":"對啊 報紙都已經報成這樣了不是知悉了嗎所以我們3月26號知悉以後我們就馬上成立調查小組要去釐清事實外交部這件案子嗎不是 我們院本部的"},{"start":9206.618,"end":9221.583,"text":"外交部是外交部要去處理的所以你們院本部也26號有立案然後是針對這個余大磊這個案子不是不是余大磊案子不會到院本部來他是外交部的執掌"},{"start":9222.443,"end":9244.324,"text":"我知道那如果這樣子的話就變成說如果外交部駐外單位發生任何霸凌的事件他就是話外之地因為行政院管不著所以再怎麼嚴重那就是尊重外交部就是他沒有一個更上級的單位可以往上申訴行政院也不是那是總統府嗎是總統的職權這個就是我看到看起來是有漏洞"},{"start":9245.305,"end":9273.273,"text":"昨天是因為在行政院院會我質詢院長院長也認為說應該要處理那要不然本來外交部次長他是覺得就是沒有人沒有人透過政治管道甚至說他是他是沒有要受理的耶那如果未來再發生類似這樣的個案件請問怎麼辦這是不是漏洞那你整個行政院你要不要去檢討不不可能我們駐外單位就是話外之地啊派駐到那邊也都是我們公務人員"},{"start":9274.013,"end":9288.797,"text":"那他們發生一些職場霸凌的事件如果外交部官官相互他採取不告不理他完全就是說因為你不敢具名啊你沒有正式申訴啊我就當作沒有發生那恐怕會更嚴重這怎麼辦 副秘書長這個我們在現在的那個規定裡面的話對於知悉的部分的時候他是要下去釐清事實"},{"start":9300.455,"end":9316.14,"text":"那你的35條有沒有有沒有範圍有沒有到我們這一些駐外單位有啊所以我剛剛講像于大雷案你們就可以啊你們就可以要求外交部要去了解你不是還是上解督導單位還是說外交部現在不歸你們只歸總統"},{"start":9317.56,"end":9333.699,"text":"不是外交部他自己有外交部的我知道但是他做的不好啊他被動啊他消極啊那這個時候怎麼辦這個就是我要跟你講的現在這個這個勞動部在我們的監督底下他現在提出來的機制"},{"start":9334.159,"end":9351.707,"text":"他是可以有更上層的單位就是說這個原單位企業他若不受理的話他可以跟公部門投訴但是你公部門我就問你外交部不受理的時候怎麼辦可以跟行政院投訴嗎還是跟總統府投訴你的機制你的更上位的那一個監督機制到底在哪裡"},{"start":9355.472,"end":9376.836,"text":"我覺得這個是個漏洞喔副秘書長我希望你們回去之後你們要把這個洞補起來啊現在看起來就是這樣子啊你都尊重原單位我就問你原單位如果沒有受理或他受理不公那請問他還有再上一層的機制嗎有嗎可以上到哪裡不知道"},{"start":9384.873,"end":9407.234,"text":"這個會後我們會再去釐清一下我要求這個部分的洞應該要補起來不可以有這樣子的一個情況既然我們之前發生了這些霸凌的案件我們覺得應該要做好那當時是勞動部是勞動部這邊的修法但是公務人員這邊你們也說你們要好好來修法要來落實"},{"start":9408.055,"end":9431.083,"text":"那現在顯然我覺得你們現在的辦法裡面還是有漏洞我希望這一塊要補起來這個就是我講的現在我們在勞動部裡面就是他可以地方勞工局投訴然後外部第三方強制的介入但是我們現在公部門裡面沒有更上層的單位這個應該要做另外一個我要問你的是這一個小組的審議"},{"start":9432.863,"end":9441.291,"text":"剛剛也有委員提到了我們現在以楊蕙心這個案為例現在已經有四個外部的委員就是來做調查對不對"},{"start":9442.25,"end":9466.481,"text":"那第一個是誰來督導這件事情讓他可以更完整我昨天也跟院長講第一個我要求的是這個涉及到霸凌的當事人他要不要調理限職因為他如果這個主管他是最高主管目前還在這個職務上面他沒有暫時調理限職請問他整個辦公室他以下他所掌管的人員有人敢講真話嗎"},{"start":9468.84,"end":9490.648,"text":"會不會就是礙於這樣的一個壓力他都還在這個位置上誰講馬上就被發現然後對他的保護其實是不周全你們有沒有考慮過這樣的一個問題你要讓調查還原真相涉及霸凌的當事人主管是不是需要暫時請假或調離限制讓這個調查可以更深入 複民長你的看法呢"},{"start":9491.308,"end":9510.709,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們現在的外部委員正在調查嘛是那協助我們把事實釐清那我們會依照調查的結果還有防護委員會的審議決議的話來處理我知道我要告訴你的是調查結果能不能還原真相"},{"start":9511.369,"end":9535.13,"text":"在於他能不能接觸到這一些跟事件相關的人而這一些事件相關的人他會不會有來自上級的壓力他可不可以有一個好的保護然後他敢把事實真相完全說出來大家都還記得當時勞動部的霸凌案的時候第一次的報告是霸凌案不成立的有沒有調查 有有沒有還原事實 沒有"},{"start":9536.091,"end":9556.352,"text":"所以這個就是關鍵後來我記得洪澄漢部長還說他設了一個信箱所有的人就是可以只到他那邊就是完全不會洩漏出去那我不知道公務部門你們這邊行政院的做法是什麼可不可以真的保護到吹哨者要不然有調查但是會變成沒真相"},{"start":9556.952,"end":9579.528,"text":"因為你調查到的不是最核心最敢講真話或是礙於事實壓力你的這個調查報告可能就只是流於形式沒有還原真相那我具體建議一個是剛剛講的涉及霸凌的主管你要讓他暫時調離限制這是一個建議第二個是所有的包括像楊蕙心個案她的友人這個爆料者"},{"start":9580.248,"end":9602.848,"text":"你怎麼樣想方設法讓他們願意講出最真實的真相這些調查委員有沒有接觸到他們還有包括現在被指涉的楊珍妮她之前她服務過了包括國貿局跟她互動的單位包括外交部擴大調查範圍這是必要的這個也是去稀釋不要讓當事人你只調查少數人這少數人的壓力就很大"},{"start":9603.388,"end":9610.816,"text":"你調查多一點人的時候就是他可以免除那個直接被指涉的壓力這個是在調查過程當中要蠻細膩的我不知道你們有沒有考慮這些如果這些你們沒有很仔細的一個去討論跟執行的話將來的調查報告恐怕會不符合就是大家的期待家屬可能也覺得沒有還原真相這個你們可以做到嗎"},{"start":9627.372,"end":9645.605,"text":"個人報告剛剛委員講的這些點的話我們回去的話都會提供給我們的調查小組委員讓他做審議的參考現在這整個是誰在主導因為還有更上位的小組審議誰是主持人是副秘書長嗎還是誰我們審議委員會的話有12個委員外部委員 主席是秘書長"},{"start":9655.191,"end":9677.336,"text":"是秘書長擔任主席但是我們之前會前的時候也有在開會因為他自己是北美協調委員會的小組委員他會自請迴避所以你是主席自請迴避完以後我們會委員互推代理主席"},{"start":9677.836,"end":9698.263,"text":"好 這個主席也很重要就是一定要很客觀的來審理所有的事實家屬需要真相 社會也需要真相那你們預計多久可以完成我昨天跟院長說希望一個月之內可以完成調查你們可以加快嗎我們規定是兩個月院長昨天也跟委員承諾我們會盡速的來完成但是我們不會刻意說拜託委員趕在一個月之內完成"},{"start":9703.345,"end":9715.374,"text":"我知道但是要加速好不好而且那個主要要接觸到真的知道真相的而且讓他願意講出事實這個才是關鍵好不好還原事實的真相最重要對好謝謝那你先請回我請那個勞動部我們洪部長"},{"start":9719.016,"end":9736.162,"text":"就是公安的問題 我很快的要幫我們這些從事演藝工作的臨演來請命因為我們看到現在這一些臨演可能是我們現在安全網的破洞這個有調查 這個也是來自你們自己的調查52%從業者因公負傷 只有0.7%申請災保的給付"},{"start":9744.145,"end":9765.913,"text":"那最近爆發的這個案件呢他具組從來沒有幫他保勞保或災保所以這樣一個情況等於是這是舊的數據最舊的 那最新的有改善嗎這是災保法之前的數據那你們現在更新的數據你告訴本席啦對 但是這是確定這是災保法之前的那最新的你說"},{"start":9767.416,"end":9779.126,"text":"最新我們可能要再找一下可是目前的狀況因為災保法通過以後後來經過請工會協助等等等他的機制大概就不是這個數據了那為什麼這個臨演還是沒有災報"},{"start":9785.515,"end":9802.467,"text":"當然這個個案的狀況是可以檢討可是我說數據本身這不是現況的數據好啊 那你就告訴本席最新的數據對 那我覺得我們再來看一下有沒有有最新的數據的話我再提供這樣好不好好 我要指出來是這邊還是有人沒有受到保障"},{"start":9802.967,"end":9831.558,"text":"他的職業安全沒有受到保護特別是過去我們可能真的比較忽略臨時演員這一塊那因為有爆發這樣的一個事件我希望你們可以好好的去改善這樣的一個現象那我這邊有三個建議我覺得這一些影視的這個臨時的演員勞工也不應該被拋棄他們還是應該要被好好照顧那第一個你們可不可以做到要求這一些臨演要百分之百投保"},{"start":9832.219,"end":9861.006,"text":"這一個職業災害保險百分之百做到雖然他是臨演但是他還是可以勤領的他還是可以勤領的他可以勤領對還是可以的沒有投保的情況底下也可以勤領跟委員報告只要他是受雇勞工是具有雇傭關係的他到職他就他是承攬他不是雇傭臨演現在被發現他只有承攬他不是雇傭這個個案是雇傭關係"},{"start":9862.504,"end":9880.058,"text":"這個是你們後來查到是雇傭是不是所以他是可以的根本說明這個案子發生之後我自己親自也主動找李遠部長那我們也針對目前對於這個影視圈的這個因為我們有指引嘛那我們也看到指引裡面其實確實有些不足沒有落實"},{"start":9880.638,"end":9897.785,"text":"所以指引裡面有不足之處那也有一些部分在部分的比方說拍電視劇的部分特別不容易多好那我就一題問你了職業這個安全衛生自動檢查表要不要事先審查你們開會討論完之後需不需要他們現在是不用送的"},{"start":9898.584,"end":9910.777,"text":"要不要要不要送審讓主管機關審核覺得你這個有做到因為有很多是爆破啊高空跳啊就是都是一些設計比較危險的那你們現在其實是沒有這個部分應該是會送影視局啦對"},{"start":9913.294,"end":9935.754,"text":"要嘛這是送隱私局會有一個自主檢查表對但是他們的那個對於職安的意識我們現在比較希望的方向是針對一些高風險的拍攝行為對那這些高風險的拍攝行為我們現在正在跟隱私局討論是不是應該想要設計一個這個在前端事前通報的機制所以"},{"start":9936.314,"end":9947.08,"text":"不只是這個安全衛生的部分尤其特別針對高風險的部分我們應該提前先掌握那這部分正在跟影視局還有跟業界那目前正在針對這個機制的討論正在討論中所以還沒有討論出來現在正在討論 對"},{"start":9951.502,"end":9977.003,"text":"好這個部分我要求你們要趕快討論出來這個的確是過去大家都會忽略大家看戲看得很過癮但是從來沒有好好去思考這些臨演他承受這些高風險的時候我們國家的制度政府的制度有沒有事先有一個比較強制性的要求跟檢核去確保他在那個過程當中的安全其實這個部分真的是被忽略其實我們的確看到這裡面政府會有一定的責任所以我們也跟"},{"start":9978.044,"end":10004.81,"text":"文化部在討論包括我們相對應的這些記錄其實都變成是應該變成文化部在補助的時候判斷的依據你們多久這個新的機制可以演繹出來你們的目標跟委員報告其實目前在配合子安法裡面的附屬法規也有把這個部分放進來所以我們應該是會在六月底把這個法案所以會做修法會做母法的修正然後再做配合"},{"start":10005.43,"end":10030.744,"text":"這是隨著去年底職安法修法以後我們也希望把這一塊考慮進來放到附屬法規裡面所以應該我今天剛才有說我們希望7月1號其實職安法的部分可以就附屬法規經過預告以後可以上路7月1號可以上路對我們希望是7月1號好我們希望在這一塊就是要補足就是我們去照顧到這些臨演他們的工作職業的安全好謝謝"},{"start":10033.513,"end":10035.414,"text":"謝謝主席那我們先請這個我們行政院的副秘書長李副秘書長有請林副市長"},{"start":10063.157,"end":10089.507,"text":"你好李副秘好我想從這次的顏惠欣的個案我想大家都非常關心所以我想要先請教一下這個請問這個特任官顏惠欣副總談判代表是前年的五月底上任五月底上任嘛對不對那請問她上任的人是不是因為談判辦公室的作業疏失導致她被延誤兩個星期才上任"},{"start":10094.093,"end":10107.124,"text":"有嗎你不曉得沒關係你曉得就說曉得不曉得就說不曉得這個訊息我們你不曉得好那請問一下李副我這個編制上副總談判代表有沒有專任的秘書"},{"start":10110.751,"end":10133.842,"text":"但是以下的問題都是你知道就說知道,不知道就說不知道沒關係因為他是台美會的主任委員那他是兼任副總談判代表所以基本上我們是應該是沒有配秘書的沒有專任秘書那他第一天上班就被拋銷這件事情行政院有沒有掌握這個我們不清楚,我們是看到媒體報導才知道"},{"start":10135.683,"end":10158.754,"text":"好,那再來呢,我想要請教一下李副秘書長,特仁館的顏惠欣副總談判代表是何時開始請病假的?不知道?去年九月的時候,就不細細。好,那請問一下他在這個今年2月19號,是大年初三的時候,在病榻前寫的這個辭職信,請問一下行政院是何時收到這份?"},{"start":10159.95,"end":10172.103,"text":"這封辭職信的那請問卓院長有沒有交辦這件事情跟委員報告那卓院長昨天回答王育敏委員的質詢的時候那他是有這樣子說說他2月19號的時候"},{"start":10174.966,"end":10203.969,"text":"那嚴副總有把這個訊息傳給行政院那個院長室的幕僚那幕僚有把這個訊息給院長看那院長對他表達關心但是也希望他好好休息休息好了以後病好以後能夠繼續為國來效力所以換言之是沒有處理這個實質性我們可能還不曉得你不曉得我們不知道你不知道就回答不知道沒關係我就是在釐清一些問題而已"},{"start":10205.154,"end":10219.35,"text":"所以所以這個我想要請教一下那今年的2月23是年後上班的第一天那到了3月12號這個顏副總代表他辭世請問你們有什麼中間有什麼任何的作為嗎"},{"start":10223.564,"end":10250.043,"text":"沒有不曉得因為我們根本不知道這個訊息所以其實我想要表達的就是今天的報告說行政院是3月26號才開始啟動調查對不對那也就是說在3月24號的這種霸凌案被揭露之後被媒體揭露之後被媒體逼出來之後才在兩天的時間說要開始有動作所以這就是凸顯出從這個個案凸顯出"},{"start":10252.805,"end":10260.282,"text":"整個這個行政的失靈然後呢也凸顯出行政院的一個冷漠無作為啊"},{"start":10261.311,"end":10289.87,"text":"跟委員報告因為這過了很這個看起來這時間過了非常的久啊然後也是被媒體揭露之後才開始兩天的時間才開始說好那我們要來啟動調查我們事實上也是3月26號看到那個Tree的報導的時候他那個詳細的揭露那些事情的時候我們知悉這件事情我們馬上就組成那個專案小組要來釐清事實對所以你不覺得這裡面哪裡疏漏了嗎"},{"start":10292.56,"end":10301.093,"text":"因為我們是真的3月26號才知道的所以你這樣的講法就會讓這個我們覺得說那行政院長明明就知道了2月19號就知道了怎麼過了這麼多這麼久的時間沒有交辦沒有去請"},{"start":10306.062,"end":10328.494,"text":"這個下面的去相關了解這個案情的事情好等到媒體報了之後才匆匆的說我們趕快來調查這就是我今天想要從這個個案推出來讓大家覺得說哇這個很很嘩然喔讓社會嘩然怎麼會行政院長自己本身已經知道這件事情居然沒有請責成下下面的人去了解去關心"},{"start":10329.799,"end":10342.155,"text":"這就是現在大家在討論一個這個時間點的問題所以這部分我想要再進一步從這個個案推到這個系統性的問題我想要再請這個保訓會的處長保訓會處長"},{"start":10357.093,"end":10369.961,"text":"好 我想要請問兩位就是你們可以看是誰的執掌來負責回答所以首先我想要請教根據你們的114年度的職場霸凌防制執行的情形調查表"},{"start":10370.936,"end":10388.023,"text":"就是更深入探討了霸凌行為的層級關係跟行為樣態那表上呢也有顯示這個此項調查是自114年的7月1日到12月31日指對不對然後要求各機關詳實記錄所有受理的情形"},{"start":10388.925,"end":10406.738,"text":"那這個統計的框架不僅包含了案件數啦也更深入的這個探討了霸凌行為的層級關係行為樣態那你們最後要求的截止通報日是3月31號那今天是4月1號是不是想必你們資料是已經有收集完成了對嗎"},{"start":10410.086,"end":10430.292,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分因為還有少數的主管機關他還在彙整中像是一些縣市政府因為他下面所有機關其實很多那所以我們有已經在31號的時候我們另外有在行文去催請大家所以等於是說你本來說3月31號要要求這些資料回來還很多人沒有交回來是這個意思嗎"},{"start":10430.652,"end":10450.673,"text":"一部分 並沒有很多就一部分是不是因為其實我們就是我本席也有在上週就有跟相關的單位包含人事總書有去索資喔那目前我是沒有得到回應所以我這邊想要請教喔第一個就是根據你們目前為止的資料喔你們統計的案件數前三名的部會是哪幾個"},{"start":10452.574,"end":10469.685,"text":"目前跟委員報告目前我們收到了其實還不齊全我們後續在整個整體收完之後我們還要再做進一步通所以目前還不知道是好所以你也沒辦法評估說哪三個是案件比較多的是好那再來第二個問題"},{"start":10470.851,"end":10486.782,"text":"就是職場霸凌的申訴數量總共是多少結案數是多少你現在等於也沒辦法回答是那再來第三個我想要了解的事情是職場霸凌申訴後霸凌者行這個處分的份件數有幾件你們也沒有也現在也都沒有有沒有初步的數據也都沒有"},{"start":10491.021,"end":10501.431,"text":"這部分可能都得要等三月份的這一份那我剛剛問的這三個問題就是我本席想要希望你們等這個資料回來之後提供給本席辦公室讓我們瞭解好不好是"},{"start":10502.148,"end":10530.714,"text":"因為這份表格其實我覺得是相對相關是蠻完整的我希望你們可以盡快到時候去識別化之後也定期的公佈那我也想要提醒這個表格其實明確的也有規定說114年的7月1日前所有的案件數均不記錄所以事實上你們到現在還沒有辦法完全的拿到這些資料我也很好奇喔因為這個明明就已經這段時間已經很久了並不是說這個中間持續增加的還要他們"},{"start":10532.846,"end":10544.615,"text":"還要他們再補上去所以你也給了很多時間了這個部分要請你落實去追蹤要求相關的部會誰還沒有交回來的哪些地方政府還沒交回來的你要趕快去跟他們要求好不好是好那再來就是"},{"start":10547.884,"end":10576.136,"text":"我想要 最後我也想要詢問 監察院有指出這個許多的機關的人事處在接收到霸凌陳情的時候常常為了顧及長官的顏面將其歸類為一般申訴導致案情沒有辦法進入法定的防護小組甚至也有報導指出這個經濟部的技術司案中即便有監察院的報告背書內部仍然會傳出說抓吹哨者的這個吹哨者的這個風聲那"},{"start":10577.953,"end":10588.871,"text":"這也反映出來我們公共機關其實在這個文化裡面對於異議的聲音極度的不耐受導致內部修正機制完全失靈請問這件事要怎麼改善"},{"start":10590.964,"end":10612.895,"text":"各位委員報告依照這個公務人員保障法跟安慰辦法的規定其實各機關對於提出這場霸凌申訴的人都不能給予不利對待或不合理的處分那相對於這件事情其實在保障法跟安慰辦法上路之後保訓會也陸續的到各個機關去做宣導跟教育我跟你說有一個很根本的問題"},{"start":10613.735,"end":10626.93,"text":"就是你可以看到這個通報制度其實是有問題的有很多基層的公務員向本辦公室反映他說現場現在的這個職場霸凌案件通報平台你要給不是要給他自然人憑證"},{"start":10627.782,"end":10655.859,"text":"就是要健保卡但但事實上也根本沒有人敢實名的使用啊對不對那這部分你要怎麼你要怎麼處理跟委員報告依照我們安慰辦法的規定提出職場霸凌申訴其實本來就應該要具名申訴的嗯也是避免說機關可能被少數的這個不當的爆料或者是不實的指控而導致整個行政作業上面是但是但是也是發生了這個問題嗎所以這個第一線也分是發生了所謂的實名通報"},{"start":10657.404,"end":10661.26,"text":"會讓人家不敢通報那你這部分你有什麼改善的想法"},{"start":10662.543,"end":10689.867,"text":"是 那以目前來說我們都是要求各機關在收到職場霸凌申訴的時候都要在10天內去決定是否要受理同時他應該要通報上級機關那如果機關違反這樣的規定依照保障法沒有啊 你這個規定都是一樣我懂你要表達的就是說你的規定依照這樣走可是現在就是發生了這個事嘛就是說他不敢通報嘛因為他怕通報上去他會知道說他通報了誰然後去指控他的"},{"start":10690.647,"end":10717.025,"text":"上級以後有不利對待他以後可能會被會被這個針對所以剛剛也有委員提到之前洪宣安部長就說不然你就直接直接寄到我的信箱我來直接來處理那請問你們現在這個部分你有什麼精進的想法或是作為因為大家就不信任這個還是你可以跟他們說請大家放心你這個你這個你這個東西到我這裡來絕對不會外洩外洩了會發生什麼事你這部分有辦法"},{"start":10718.137,"end":10747.114,"text":"承諾或者是怎麼改善嗎跟委員報告其實我們現在目前也在建置資產霸凌的申訴平台那這個平台建置之後其實所有的人他都可以以他的自然人憑證或者是健保卡直接在我們的平台上面做申訴那申訴之後他的案件就會記錄在那個平台上那你申訴完了之後上級機關也會收到你申訴完之後你要怎麼確保這件事情這樣或者是你要再去宣導說跟這些這個相關的公務部門的同仁說"},{"start":10747.774,"end":10770.533,"text":"你去用這個自然人憑證或是你用健保卡你來了我怎麼用保密機制讓你確保你的這個身份不會外洩不會被你的相關的直屬長官知道這個部分你們會怎麼做是這當然就關系到我們後續這個系統怎麼建制那以及我們也會對於那些可以使用這套系統的人的權限也會做劃分"},{"start":10771.033,"end":10787.844,"text":"那你要怎麼做 你現在有具體一點系統上 原則上啦 機關在看到這筆申訴案的時候其實他只會接收到有一筆申訴案 可是他不會去讀到就是讀到他實際上的申訴內容你說誰會拿到這個他有一筆申訴案 你說長官會說他被申訴了"},{"start":10792.807,"end":10812.433,"text":"機關通常都會有一個職場霸凌的申訴窗口那個窗口的負責人我們就會給他一個權限讓他可以定期的去看一下那個系統上是不是有職場霸凌的申訴案那他看到那個申訴案之後他就可以知道是申訴人跟被申訴人但是他沒有辦法見到實際上的具體內容"},{"start":10813.473,"end":10834.114,"text":"申訴人跟被申訴人就是最大的問題啦不是嗎如果他在同一個機關裡你的譬如說我舉個例子啦就是我們紅部長假設你有一個司長他去申訴了然後到了這個部會裡面然後這個窗口知道說這個紅部長你被某司長申訴囉那這樣子不就會造成了他們不敢申報的原因嗎"},{"start":10835.545,"end":10850.612,"text":"這不就是現在我提出來的問題嗎就算是現在用書面上做申訴那個申訴的窗口他一定要知道是誰被誰申訴嘛那他才能再往後續把整個案件提交到防護委員會去做討論"},{"start":10851.872,"end":10865.799,"text":"所以你這個勿填這個機制會不會發生我剛剛說的這個問題就是申訴的從一個單位裡面的這個窗口他收到有申訴案了那知道某長官被某下屬這個申訴了那這個事情就可能會在那個機關單位傳出去"},{"start":10867.219,"end":10887.94,"text":"那傳出去之後大家就更不敢去申訴這件事所以我剛剛說從個案我們來檢討整個系統的問題這個系統現在是有問題的我是不是可以請你們回去把我的意見帶回去你們到底要怎麼做到不管是匿名匿名申報也好或者是你要用一個機制去告訴這些人說我這個絕對不會洩漏或者是洩漏了之後這個人要負什麼責任"},{"start":10890.311,"end":10908.596,"text":"這個部分你們是不是可以回去檢討然後給本席一個具體的方案可以跟委員報告依照我們安慰辦法的規定本來調查小組跟所有參與這項調查整個程序過程的人都具有保密義務所以你說這個所以你這個窗口本身就是也不能夠有透露"},{"start":10908.996,"end":10938.455,"text":"那他如果透露了之後他會有什麼責任當然會違反安慰辦法的規定那同時他可能也有公務人員考積法公務員服務法的相關追究好那你就要去好好的宣傳你給本席一個修改的建議修正的建議之後你也必須去各個單位機關跟這些公務人員跟他們掛保證說你要跟他說這件事情你去申訴了你用證人憑證申訴了你去實名申訴了你絕對不會有得到不利對待是"},{"start":10939.161,"end":10943.273,"text":"是不是 你要去做這件事那接下來我要請洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":10953.901,"end":10981.427,"text":"來 部長好 我想要請教一下有關公安和老安的部分那依照勞動檢查法的第五條這個由中央主管機關設勞動檢查機構或授權直轄市主管機關或有關機關專設勞動檢查機構辦理之 對不對那授權之勞動檢查依法依本法啦 因依本法有關的規定辦理並受中央主管機關之指揮和"},{"start":10982.938,"end":10984.081,"text":"監督你們確實是有監督的權責對嗎是"},{"start":10988.561,"end":11010.556,"text":"好那根據這個你們在2025年的7月8號也有個新聞稿你們明確的定義說多次發生災害勞動檢查的機構也就是你們的職安署或與地方政府應該要擴大停工範圍並加嚴復工審查那是不是這樣子是那也顯見勞動部具有監督的責任對嗎"},{"start":11013.197,"end":11030.137,"text":"本來就有對本來就有好那我就想要請教一下因為為何在高雄有某特定的建案那他已經屬於定類的危險性工作場所那麼他在2024年的3月2024年3月的時候有發生板模坍塌"},{"start":11031.138,"end":11041.63,"text":"而且在2025年的11月4日又發生這個工人高樓墜落死亡意外那其實已經符合你們所謂的多次發生災害的範疇那依照你們的規定應該要擴大停工範圍加強稽查那麼為何又在2026年呢他1月11號又發生了第三起"},{"start":11053.223,"end":11075.015,"text":"工地高處天降鐵板的意外然後你們在兩天內就有予以復工不管是你或地方政府有予以復工所以導致最後在兩個月後在2026年的3月24號第四度發生天降鋼板的意外砸死人這個時候就砸死人所以"},{"start":11076.075,"end":11102.712,"text":"這兩年內發生這個公安意外兩人死亡那你們治安署去年的督導考評中有沒有針對這個高雄勞檢處的復工審查流程提出過糾正或者是警告或者對於這兩年這四起反覆造災的這個高風險的工地中央有沒有啟動過任何專案督導或是書面要求或是復工的這個流程的檢視或考評的扣分"},{"start":11104.298,"end":11130.713,"text":"跟委員報告我們確實在停復工要點去年有修正那我們的認定還是職業災害就職業 職安法裡面所定義的職業災害那剛剛委員提到的這些案件就我們所知有部分的案件經過這個法官法醫或是檢察官他認定不是因工作引起的那就不會回到我們剛剛提到的這個這個停復工要點因為我們認定是職業災害 對"},{"start":11132.034,"end":11159.046,"text":"如果最近這一切是實業者還沒有錯好這個等一下我們會回來講我覺得這個是有一個流程上會有會發生問題喔所以其實你們也有說這個設施不良造災其他相同的處要全面檢討改善可是明明在這個部分1月11號你就有發生這個天降鋼板嘛對不對那後來讓他復工了復工了之後所以導致有人然後後來再次天降這個鋼筋砸壞兩台車一個小時之後再這個砸死人所以這個東西你剛剛這樣子歸類是不是"},{"start":11160.447,"end":11172.823,"text":"反而是沒有好好的去檢查他如果譬如說他已經掉下來你沒有砸到人這個工地他掉下來一個危險物品沒砸到人然後你就沒有去要求他或者是說示警他那"},{"start":11173.812,"end":11200.397,"text":"這只是剛好那裡沒有人而已嘛對吧第一個我們其實在去年下半年提出的減災計畫裡面其實也有一個是會針對高質災跟高危違規的這個監管的計畫那我想在這些相關的案件裡面我們都會來跟高雄市老檢處來瞭解一下包括也跟他們在瞭解有沒有大家可以互相協助然後能夠把這樣子的一個"},{"start":11202.238,"end":11220.937,"text":"其實你們兩方不管是高雄市政府或者是你所以這次到底是要誰負這個督導的責任監督的責任當然這是高雄市勞檢處他要來進行這些這個相關的檢查的業務但是這個高雄市勞檢處當然也跟中央的部分也會有一些互相可以互相協助的關係"},{"start":11221.598,"end":11250.795,"text":"所以你要互相協助他但是這樣看起來是高雄市勞檢處沒有好好的去去檢討我沒有這樣子我沒有這樣因為政策當然是中央我們訂定的政策所以不管是減災計畫或者是剛才說強化停復工的計畫這都是中央提出來的可是我們當然也有義務來協助地方政府的檢查機構來照著這個政策的方向盡量的來落實所以我們也有這個部分的所以你有沒有去檢討說他先"},{"start":11251.195,"end":11274.692,"text":"那這個流程裡面到底他的檢查哪裡出了問題所以我說在這幾個案例裡面當然也有剛剛林組長說的裡面有部分的計畫他在檢查官的認定裡面他並不是職災也有這樣的部分可是我想有職災的尤其是重大職災的案例的發生就是大家不樂見的我們都願意來跟相關的地方政府的檢查機構來多做一點關心跟了解"},{"start":11275.052,"end":11302.365,"text":"請問一下那你們有沒有依照你們頒布的這個職場減災計畫你剛剛一直提到對這個案件同類樣態進行抽查或是複核你們有做這件事嗎跟委員報告我們確實在去年下半年我們也有頒布一個高違規高職災的監管計畫那我們會就這個個案我們會要求高公司勞檢處是不是有符合我們的規範應該要列入這個所謂的列管的一個工地"},{"start":11303.205,"end":11319.556,"text":"對所以簡單來講我聽到現在你好像沒有去監督或是督導他們有沒有依照你們訂新的這個停工跟復工的要點去確實落實說他有沒有依照這個新規則去執行不是各位我們定期性或年度的考評"},{"start":11320.757,"end":11344.091,"text":"都有 都有 但是這個在執行上不可能每一個個案這個 但是我們會假設這樣的案件我們會每個月去從我們的系統上去看對嘛 它是屬於高違規所以你們有系統可以去看嘛 對不對我們所有的檢查都要進到我們中央的系統 對所以你們有個通報平台有 都有你們有個通報平台 對不對好 那我想要請教一下你說你每個月去看那這件事情"},{"start":11346.212,"end":11365.844,"text":"不是每個月去看那個現場不是 我知道 就是這個通報平台嘛你們就是要透過通報平台才知道有沒有發生這件事 對嗎你們現在是要這樣嗎是 他如果有剛剛委員提到的被檢查 被罰還 被停工在我們的記錄都會看到那如果是屬於我們列管的那我們就要提高檢查頻率還有提高罰還金額那這個案件有被通報嗎"},{"start":11366.984,"end":11389.509,"text":"這個案件一定通報一定有通報是不是一定有通報一定有通報嗎所以那這個部分勞檢單位可能他有介入嗎勞檢單位依照我們剛剛委員提到勞檢法跟相關的法規程序規範都會去做勞檢對都要去做勞檢所以你這個案子應該會有所以在通報平台上應該也要會有當然確定"},{"start":11393.447,"end":11421.384,"text":"我想要 所以我就想要問喔 但是我有去查齁我有去查 這個是零筆資料欸我查不到這件事情欸我上網去查 我根本查不到這件事啊甚至我也去看他的地圖 根本沒有這個案件啊那個 第一個 公開網的部分當然會跟我們 他還通報的這個資訊系統不一定一樣但我們可以來看一下就是說所以你說 那你如果不一樣的話那你又何必 又需要這個網站呢"},{"start":11425.71,"end":11449.816,"text":"我跟你講我去你們重大職災公開網這個案件是一筆資料都沒有啊一筆資料都沒有那個他的關鍵字不一定是用凹子底啦好那再往下我沒有關鍵字沒有凹子底那我去看的地圖也沒有這個案件再往下再往下有一個圖片好我有去看你們的公開的地圖地圖上也沒有這個案件"},{"start":11454.671,"end":11482.46,"text":"跟委員報告那整個只要經過我們檢查報告書經過我們中央核定以後他資料就要上傳那這個個案是不是我們會後把提供完整資料給委員所以你們就是有督導的疏失嘛所以因為你這個資料我根本完全查不到這件事情如果剛剛委員這個案子他剛發生剛發生 實在報告書要一到兩個月我們整個責任都釐清以後我們才允許他上去對 是這個部分那你這一到兩個月這個工地你們要怎麼處理"},{"start":11484.921,"end":11502.092,"text":"委員你把好幾件事情全部混在一起了第一個事情是資訊流的通報跟揭露這件事情他有他在這個職災上面責任認定的程序必須把這些相關責任認定的程序給走完他才能夠確認這筆資料相關的資料是如何"},{"start":11502.372,"end":11523.447,"text":"他才會放到相關的資訊公開的部分這是一個部分但是那個工地現場該怎麼處理這也會有一套系統所以這是不同的事情你把他好幾件事情沒有所以我剛剛是幫你拍開來講所以我的問題也是問另外一件事就是說那這段時間因為我們最終我們要講的事情叫做你有沒有落實督導有沒有發生說你看他明明就掉了東西下來"},{"start":11524.187,"end":11538.804,"text":"然後呢因為沒有及時的去用嚴格的監督的管理規則讓他復工結果隔了兩個月之後又掉下來我就要表達的事情是你第一次發生的時候是剛好下面沒有人那你第二次發生的時候就砸到人了嘛"},{"start":11539.104,"end":11554.41,"text":"所以我現在要說的事情是說針對這個案例我想我們會請治安署來跟高雄市勞檢處針對這個案子目前處理到什麼樣子的程序來做一個更深入的瞭解因為這的確是地方政府的勞檢檢察機構在處理我們會來瞭解那我們會來跟他確認"},{"start":11558.191,"end":11583.712,"text":"他有沒有按照去年我們頒布的相關的這個政策跟機制來去處理我們會來跟他確認這件事情但他的確在這個案例上面也會有他要走的流程他的走的流程到目前按照該個參與的話他到現在不一定這個流程你剛剛有說中央地方都有各自的責任然後他表達說你們的督導責任包含不管這個資訊的問題或者是他有沒有依照你們新規則去逐一的去執行落實"},{"start":11584.953,"end":11605.489,"text":"這件事情是你們的督導責任然後再來就是你們地方政府上面他有沒有落實做這件事情所以我要表達的是你這個公安和勞安其實你在這個個案你就可以發現說一個很奇妙的地方他第一次砸下來之後只是剛好沒有人那後面呢你很快的復工之後好大概兩個月後你如果沒有落實檢查這些要點"},{"start":11607.15,"end":11631.741,"text":"他再砸下來的時候剛好下面有人哇那就一個一個工人就這樣子過世了這個狀況的發生都是我們不樂見的情況我們都不樂見所以我們願意跟地方政府我們願意跟地方政府來加強這部分的督導我想這部分我們願意跟地方政府來做所以我想要跟你說的事情是第一個你們好像不願意承認你們在資訊流上面請你們回去檢討一下然後給本席辦公室檢討的報告為什麼我去查 查不到"},{"start":11632.301,"end":11648.507,"text":"然後有四起我就說過去這個工地就有四起可是我在網站上是一筆都查不到但是你剛剛在質詢前面又跟我說你們都有落實登記所以這件事情本席希望會後給本席辦公室一個報告我還是要再強調這個案件他一定會有通報但通報以後他"},{"start":11649.167,"end":11677.661,"text":"他去處理的程序會要走到一定處理的程序以後他才會放上一個公開揭露的系統因為如果他沒有走完一個一定處理的程序的時候他放上公開揭露的系統他的資訊不一定是完整跟正確的所以公開揭露的部分跟內部的通報這是兩件事情那我想要請問一下前面有一個53歲工人他在之前就有意外墜樓也很久了也很久以前那為什麼他還是沒有上你們這個公開系統呢"},{"start":11678.852,"end":11695.642,"text":"這個我們來剛剛有說明那個公開網是職業災害因為工作而引起的如果這個個案就目前我們了解它不是跟工作有相關性所以它不是職業災害就是不能不是職業就不是在我的平台去公布"},{"start":11696.002,"end":11714.548,"text":"所以你的意思就是這就是我們剛剛講的就是這兩件事情你可能要去看一下這件事情它要怎麼在資訊上面串起來因為不管是公安或是這個職災我覺得這個東西你們要去想一下這個流程上第一階段發生了這個事你們要嚴格的去要求不要再發生坍塌"},{"start":11715.208,"end":11744.058,"text":"掉下來 這個是不是要特別示警至少這個案例我們會重點來關注那過去 剛才講的你剛才應該是講你現在投影片上面的第二起事件是後來檢察官認定他不是職業災害他是他新陰性的原因對好 你看著這個 好 OK但是我還是要講在天降鐵板這兩個關係所以我說我們願意重點來關注請你們這個會後之後再提供給本席辦公室為什麼我的質疑的點好 謝謝"},{"start":11745.322,"end":11754.655,"text":"好謝謝廖友雄委員的質詢本會收到臨時提案進行處理我們現在處理臨時提案既有疑案請宣讀"},{"start":11758.07,"end":11786.502,"text":"衛生福利部已明確布達醫事人員完成繼續教育積分授訓時間屬工作時間雇主應給予工價為今日仍有醫事人員反映醫院沒有給予工價為維護醫事人員勞動權益勤勞動部將醫事人員完成繼續教育積分授訓時間屬工作時間雇主應給予工價納入醫療專案勞檢項目並請於一個月內提出書面報告與立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提案委員邱惠如邱振鈞陳金輝宣讀完畢"},{"start":11787.852,"end":11809.088,"text":"請問本案行政單位有意見報主席能不能麻煩在倒數第二行再加三個字請勞動部將醫事人員依法應完成繼續教育積分之後"},{"start":11810.387,"end":11825.961,"text":"再加三個字就好了依法應完成繼續教育積分授訓時間屬工作時間就加三個字就可以好 黃部長我想我們這邊也OK那我們對這個案子我想我們會很願意"},{"start":11830.287,"end":11855.263,"text":"那全有推動 因為這也是我在當立委的時候我其實有推動過的議題好 委員有意見好 謝謝 謝謝勞動部還有衛福部這邊對於我們這一項的提案就是願意來協助跟願意來配合那可不可以請一個月內提出書面報告給衛環委員會好 謝謝那我們就修正通過"},{"start":11858.785,"end":11862.369,"text":"臨時提案全部處理完畢 接下來繼續詢問 請黃修芳委員質詢謝謝主席 我們先請那個勞動部洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":11886.294,"end":11907.777,"text":"部長好 部長在前幾天我們有特別提到就是在4月份我們即將就是開放家有12歲以下子女的這個家庭可以申請外籍幫傭那現在就是兒童節快到了那也蠻多家長有特別提到就是說我們"},{"start":11909.699,"end":11923.996,"text":"當孩子生病的時候家長可能把一年當中的試駕、有薪駕全部都用上了往往都還不夠因為孩子有時候常病毒"},{"start":11925.618,"end":11950.747,"text":"一請假可能就是在家可能就是一個禮拜兩個禮拜的這個時間那我想請教部長就是說我們當時我們現在4月份開始就是開放這個12歲以下的這個子女的家庭可以申請外籍幫佣那這個確實可以解決這個孩子們如果這個當生病的時候那這個"},{"start":11954.229,"end":11978.127,"text":"確實12歲以下在家裡面我們開放這樣的外籍幫傭是不是真的可以解決這樣的一個問題跟委員說明其實剛剛委員講的情境是很多現在家長都會遇到的那這個情境裡面可能有包括緊急性的狀況臨時性的狀況也有可能不是緊急性可是也還是希望減少負擔的部分"},{"start":11978.767,"end":12002.583,"text":"所以我們其實有幾個相關的政策當然這個現在的外籍辦公室的新制是其中一個但如果剛剛委員在講我們其實最新的這個讓育嬰留庭可以以日來請小孩三歲以前以日來請那三歲以前有30天平均每年有10天其實也可以支應剛剛剛剛委員講到的這樣子的需求尤其是現在蠻多的家長都用這個以日來請來去"},{"start":12004.424,"end":12027.543,"text":"來去因應就像小孩突然生病或藏病毒的這個做法那我們在數據上也看到使用的程度是蠻高的確實現在還有很多家長一直在反映就是說孩子們一旦生病然後再加或者是這個班級這個幼兒園班級有人藏病毒然後就需要全班就是不能到學校"},{"start":12028.203,"end":12046.095,"text":"那家長就會碰到類似這樣的一個狀況那我想這個部長可不可以建議可以去參考一下我們的鄰近國家像日本他們有一個病兒的保育我也想請教一下我們的衛福部次長"},{"start":12047.196,"end":12059.492,"text":"就是說鄰近國家有這樣子針對孩子們如果生病或者是因為班級有人傳病毒不能再到學校可能就一個禮拜兩個禮拜的時間"},{"start":12062.696,"end":12088.062,"text":"我們有沒有可能來發展成就是說家長可能他的假可能也都請完或者是可能也不適合請假或沒辦法請假的這個狀況那是不是有沒有去考慮一下就是病兒的這個保育這樣的一個制度來產生是不是有沒有可能把這樣的一個制度來長出來我是不是可以請教一下次長"},{"start":12089.502,"end":12116.861,"text":"非常感謝黃委員對這個問題的關心我們知道確實家長有這個需求但是我站在惠福部的立場我們就考慮兩件事第一個就是說小朋友確實抵抗力比較差那如果說真的有這個狀況的話盡可能恐怕就是說這個托育人員跟醫護人員他的角色我們建議恐怕還是要分清楚就是說六種控制"},{"start":12119.542,"end":12143.813,"text":"當然一定要有醫生第一個就是帶到醫院現在目前的狀況可能就是家長自己照顧或是阿公阿嬤有的他本身因為班級有人染腸病毒整個班級就沒辦法再到學校去那可能就是留在家裡面有的是爸爸媽媽自己請假或者是阿公阿嬤自己帶那類似這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":12146.354,"end":12171.017,"text":"那有的家長可能我剛剛講的他的假可能都請完了那確實也需要有人協助他那就是我剛剛講的鄰近的國家有這樣的一個制度那當然這個制度也不是那麼就是不是那麼的完善總是會有人覺得說這個病兒的保育第一個"},{"start":12171.717,"end":12198.99,"text":"尤其是在這個高峰期的時候譬如說長病毒的高峰期那這個可能也一味難求或者是這個制度或這種病而保育的這樣的一個環境其實也不是每個地方都有所以我在想說我們這個勞動部或衛福部有沒有可能就是說也可以參考鄰近的國家那有這樣的一個制度來產生是不是有可能"},{"start":12200.351,"end":12222.857,"text":"包委員這樣好不好我覺得委員這個想法很好反正日本那邊也有這個案例我們是不是可以允許我們來研究好不好我們來待會研究也跟委員報告其實勞動部這邊也非常非常幫忙我們現在目前因應我們現在目前的整個這一個蛇睡以下這個部分我們其實賴總統他也非常關心就是社會投資其實我們現在目前家庭都面臨轉型"},{"start":12224.458,"end":12249.281,"text":"這裏面有很多都需要整個托育還有整個像我們現在目前衛福部也推出了育兒指導員我想很多都相關的人力我們都會有一個 勞動部這邊會有一個計畫來讓我們的保姆他這邊能夠有多元的其實雙薪家庭確實碰到這樣的一個問題尤其是孩子如果生病的時候家裡面又沒有人可以幫忙的"},{"start":12250.461,"end":12270.935,"text":"確實會造成他蠻大的一個困擾是不是有可能就是有這樣的一個制度來產生我覺得也可以去研究一下我們來研究好不好接下來我想請教次長就是說其實我們都一直在擔心就是說少子化這個議題這個逐年這個我們的新生兒逐年一直在減少"},{"start":12272.896,"end":12294.466,"text":"那你看到這個數字你會不會覺得很可怕去年是10萬出嘛那你今年預計我們的新生兒會有多少人會不會比去年還要再少那如果是這樣子的話我覺得整個育兒環境如果沒有改善的話其實我覺得年輕人不婚不生的這個狀況我是覺得是會越來越嚴重所以"},{"start":12300.428,"end":12319.046,"text":"一直在讲说这个少子化是国安的议题确实我觉得我们政府应该要多花一些时间去研究去检讨把我们的育儿环境做好我今天刚刚看到一则新闻就是高雄的一位市议员在咨询的说"},{"start":12320.347,"end":12329.134,"text":"質詢高雄市長就是說如果生第三胎送一棟房子怎麼樣想說這個是政府這個可能不是政府做的來的就是說我們應該針對少子化的這個部分怎麼樣讓我們的育兒環境更好"},{"start":12336.46,"end":12357.856,"text":"那政府就是要做好這個支援整個支持的背後的這個系統可能也要都要做好讓他能夠無後顧之憂他才敢婚敢生嘛其實我們在地方都會碰到很多類似我們這種年紀小孩可能也都是室溫年齡了然後那他們也會很擔心就是說"},{"start":12358.656,"end":12379.147,"text":"我們的下一代可能就是不想結婚那當然就是有結婚可能有這個生的這個機會就比較大那連結婚的這個念頭都沒有的話這我覺得真的是我們要好好去思考怎麼樣讓整個育兒環境能夠更好那今年的這個新生兒的比例會不會比去年又更少"},{"start":12379.967,"end":12397.75,"text":"我覺得這個真的是一個很嚴重的問題我覺得這個應該是勞動部跟或者是我們衛福部跨部會要去檢討的一個議題我們現在目前其實有一個少子女化計畫那我想這裡面其實可是我覺得成效不彰"},{"start":12400.094,"end":12423.58,"text":"我覺得成效不長如果說真的有用的話不可能每一年的這個新生兒的比例是逐年再降低所以也正因為這樣所以說其實總統他自己是要提出我們現在目前有提出了這一個3歲以下我想這基本上也是希望能夠用多元的方式我們有報告其實全世界各國處理這個問題不外乎就三個策略就是給錢 給服務 還有給時間"},{"start":12427.361,"end":12454.334,"text":"給錢的話其實我們現在目前有育兒今天0到6歲然後給服務絕對我們現在目前在加強在推動我也要利用這個機會跟大家鄭重來講就是說我們的公托一定是加倍然後我們的整個家外送托比例現在32對不對我們會提高到36第三個其實最重要是給時間那勞動部這邊其實也已經有通過育嬰留庭論日還有我們家庭照顧假論時這個都是一些彈性化的措施我知道說"},{"start":12456.235,"end":12470.385,"text":"可能要不久,所以我們的家鄉,我們現在目前會有一連串的一個方案當然站在主管機關,我們當然希望就是說,不能夠再補了我是覺得今年這個數字可能會再往下掉"},{"start":12476.469,"end":12503.894,"text":"這確實真的很嚴重我覺得真的如果不花一些時間花一些預算在這上面我覺得這個真的對整個國家未來的競爭力確實是一個危機是一個危機所以我希望就是說因為也即將兒童節放年假大家都非常的開心我覺得政府應該要去想到怎麼樣讓我們的育兒環境能夠更好讓年輕人敢婚敢生"},{"start":12505.214,"end":12530.861,"text":"政府應該要投入更多的資源我覺得這一點當然就是說如果可以像那個有的民意代表提到那我是不是可以解決住的這個問題我覺得這個也是很棒只是說政府是不是有這個能力所以我認為就是說應該要投入更多的資源來解決這樣的一個少子女化的問題好不好真的要"},{"start":12531.881,"end":12555.084,"text":"多投入一些心思在上面要不然我覺得真的是還蠻蠻嚴重的以前我們當民意代表的時候這個假日可能跑通話最多可能就是那個結婚喜宴那現在結婚喜宴一個月不到一次不到一場兩場真的很可怕所以我覺得真的真的政府要投入更多的資源在這上面真的是沒錯"},{"start":12556.805,"end":12565.373,"text":"我知道黃委員一直以來都非常關切這個問題我們這個也會回去跟院那邊來報告好 謝謝感謝委員 謝謝謝謝黃雄方委員的諮詢 接下來請圖全景委員諮詢"},{"start":12581.069,"end":12608.122,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那請我們保訓會蔡處長和行政院副秘書長好 請蔡處長及副秘書長我也好好 我先請問一下處長那如果公務人員遭受霸凌我們通常是依據什麼法規來處理"},{"start":12610.728,"end":12616.604,"text":"公務員報告是依照公務人員保障法以及公務人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法的規定"},{"start":12618.23,"end":12640.55,"text":"好那根據工人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法裡面他有一個各機關應組成安全及衛生防護委員會那就是我們講防護委員會他在處理職場霸凌的事件那通常他都上面有寫通常是由機關的副首長或者幕僚長來擔任召集人"},{"start":12641.551,"end":12666.869,"text":"然後其中當然也會聘請我們相關的專家學者不能少於三分之一這是我們裡面的處理辦法的條例那像我們這一次爆發我們研會新副代表這個高階談判代表的事件那他上面就是我們的政務委員跟行政院那他的法規上所以看起來應該"},{"start":12669.693,"end":12685.082,"text":"他的機關副首長應該就是我們的行政院副院長鄭麗君那他的幕僚長就是我們的經貿談判代表楊貞妮不是這樣是嗎如果照你規章的話"},{"start":12686.53,"end":12706.275,"text":"跟委員報告 那行政院本部目前也有設置防護委員會那我們總共有12位委員那裡面有5位是外聘的那我們的召集人是我們的幕僚長 秘書長對 但是我剛剛講的那兩位其實也是可以擔任只是你這次是因為迴避嘛"},{"start":12707.895,"end":12734.455,"text":"所以請秘書長來擔任這次的召集人不是 我們那是常設的編組好 那重點是這次我們我看我們這次行政院昨天下午提的這份專案報告那召集人是我們行政院的秘書長秘書長行政院秘書長他提這個報告那針對這部分報告說是依據我們行政院院本部職場霸凌防制申訴及調查處理的要點"},{"start":12735.376,"end":12760.081,"text":"那我想請問一下這個要點是什麼時候公布的去年年底那奇怪那這個為什麼這要點我們在網路上都查不到我們行政院本部有這個要點我們有做內部公告但是所以是有這個要點只是我們查不到所以我想了解說因為我們都查不到這個要點"},{"start":12762.11,"end":12776.883,"text":"然後一般來講像我們很多像司法院環境部各單位都有公布這個要點而且他針對這個委員會的名單都有訂定都有公布反而我們行政院這邊我們是看不到的"},{"start":12777.867,"end":12793.08,"text":"所以我在想說到底是不是有這個要點還是因為這次事情發生我們才去成立這個要點去做處理沒有 這個我們是根據保訓會的安慰辦法然後修我們自己的內規然後再重新設立"},{"start":12794.241,"end":12817.292,"text":"好 那重點就是我們當然也看得到像我們成立這個調查小組如果當事人關係人雖然他有可能是我們機關副首長或者幕僚長但是如果跟他有相當的關係的話當事人當然是一定要迴避的嘛所以這次由秘書長擔任是沒有問題但是我們疑義的是"},{"start":12818.396,"end":12835.228,"text":"其實秘書長來去做這個調查小組的召集人但是副院長跟幕僚長跟他的關係也是相當密切那會不會對於這個中立性或者政治力的介入我覺得大家是有疑義的"},{"start":12836.048,"end":12861.948,"text":"跟委員報告這一次的調查小組的話我們四位都是外聘委員完全沒有我們內部的委員參與調查出來以後他會寫結案報告結案報告我們會送到防護委員會來開會原先防護委員會的召集人是我們的秘書長他因為也是我們對美貿易小組的成員所以他會自請迴避"},{"start":12863.597,"end":12885.173,"text":"所以這份報告來提會討論的時候他會自請迴避自請迴避的時候我們委員之間會互為代理推舉一個主席來主持這個會議好12位裡面有4位是外聘的有5位是外聘的5位是外聘的就是外聘的專家學者那其他的部分是我們行政院內部的機關的人員那"},{"start":12888.196,"end":12894.974,"text":"這一次的調查小組 那我請問一下這個外部的人員外部聘任是由誰去聘任 由誰來挑選"},{"start":12896.877,"end":12913.551,"text":"外部聘任的話,因為這次保訓會是修改了規定以前我們就有性騷的成員,以前也有霸凌的小組這次我們是把他合併起來,我們就是用原來的委員來繼續留任"},{"start":12920.077,"end":12939.236,"text":"因為我們 據我們了解啦其實這外聘委員還是由我們機關裡面去聘任的所以就算這12人裡面有7個是我們機關的成員另外5個雖然是外部聘任可是挑選聘任還是由我們機關的人員去聘任所以我們認為這個公正性"},{"start":12941.057,"end":12959.488,"text":"其實有待考量啦那尤其像這次我們顏慧欣副代表的事件據我們了解其實她進去之後去年9月份就因為壓力很大就開始請病假就開始請病假之後2月19號請辭王一鳴委員質詢的時候院長也"},{"start":12966.015,"end":12991.904,"text":"當場就有承認說2月19號辭呈裡面他已經知道他有澄清因為工作上的這些的問題所以2月19號也就辭呈提出來卓院長也知情這件事情也知悉了那到12月到3月12號那個顏慧欣副代表往生結果也沒有看到去調查這件事情那當然"},{"start":12993.71,"end":13013.243,"text":"這個事情我們真正社會大眾知道是3月26號我們社群網站披露之後我剛剛也有聽我們副秘書長講因為社群網站在3月26號披露之後我們才正式成立調查小組去調查做處理沒有錯吧那所以"},{"start":13015.717,"end":13045.017,"text":"我們今天要討論的就是我覺得我們這個機制上應該是有一些問題啦你這個霸凌申訴的管道你看12個成員裡面7個就是我們機關裡面的成員5個外聘也是由機關去挑釁那等於12個都是你們決定啊那試問顏惠欣代表9月份因為壓力太大你看連這個高階代表都不敢申訴何況一般的公務人員"},{"start":13045.817,"end":13057.07,"text":"而且到2月19號連卓院長之息辭呈的原因那我請問一下後來卓院長有交代處理嗎"},{"start":13058.594,"end":13087.133,"text":"跟委員報告那昨天左院長回覆王委員的說明的時候他是說他2月19號的時候有收到那個院長辦公室的幕僚拿轉來的訊息他知道有這件事情那他也交代幕僚要下去關心除了關心以外也希望那個嚴副總談判代表的話他好好休養身體康復以後繼續來為國服務是給他慰留的啦不是所以"},{"start":13088.335,"end":13092.144,"text":"我有聽副秘書長講啊所以其實你們都不知道這件事情所以"},{"start":13093.901,"end":13119.628,"text":"講實在話就是沒有交辦去調查嘛對不對當時我們是真的沒有調查因為剛剛我有聽嘛你回答其他委員說你們根本不知道這件事情是後來王育民委員提出質詢你們才知道原來2月19號院長就知道那知道之後你們不清楚就表示沒有交辦那結果我們原來調查僑組的成立我們這些機制看起來都沒用"},{"start":13120.765,"end":13147.662,"text":"而且連行政院長知道也沒處理真正調查小組成立的關鍵點在哪裡原來在社群網站披露之後我們調查小組才依輿論成立調查小組所以這個機制跟行政院長其實看起來都沒有處理這件事情難怪一般的公務人員認為這個申訴管道基本上是沒有效益的而且"},{"start":13149.744,"end":13156.994,"text":"剛剛講12個委員7個是你機關的人另外5個還是機關指定你不覺得一般公務員敢申訴嗎"},{"start":13159.426,"end":13188.678,"text":"跟國民報告 那我們近兩年來的時候呢我們確實也有一些霸凌的申訴案那我們也運作這個機制的時候呢齁那其實也是很順利的運作啦因為我們參加這個委員會的同仁的時候呢大家都有一個認知啦因為你處理事情一定要公正客觀然後呢 你對執行職務的部分的時候你要做保密的義務啦那基本上 我自己的觀察啦我們這一兩年來我們在運作上的時候我們都確保這兩個大前提"},{"start":13189.238,"end":13218.066,"text":"不是啊你保密我們接受啊重點根本沒有辦啊我沒有叫你公開啊問題是確實你也承認從2月19號院長知道之後也沒有處理也沒有交辦所以我說這個事情你看從之前勞動部現一種職場霸凌的事件我們開始一直爆發我們整個行政體系職場霸凌的事情我說講啊人之將死其言也善啊"},{"start":13219.767,"end":13236.186,"text":"連我們嚴慧心都已經在加護病房病他上提出辭呈而且很明確講辭職的原因就是因為在職場上在行政院和工作上遭受到"},{"start":13237.553,"end":13266.337,"text":"職場的霸凌已經講得很清楚了而且還是沒處理最後處理還是因為3月26號社群網站披露不用人交辦原來只要媒體披露自然調查小組就成立了所以這個申訴機制包含我們的行政院的最高行政首長也都沒處理試問我們民眾對政府公部門這個公信力怎麼會有信心"},{"start":13269.315,"end":13288.473,"text":"所以我希望喔保訓會啊保訓會針對剛剛本席提的這些問題啊我們講啊我們沒有超前部署也沒有及時處理我們只好退而求其次啊拜託亡羊補牢總可以吧"},{"start":13289.744,"end":13310,"text":"希望後續針對我們剛剛講的這些文官體制這些後續研議它的方向跟你們要怎麼去做可不可以提出來怎麼去研議怎麼去改善我們這些申訴管道的機制你想想看12個委員7個內部聘的"},{"start":13311.007,"end":13337.814,"text":"五個聽起來很好聽外部專家學者但是這都是你決定要用誰就用誰啊連陳情到行政院長也沒處理我們這個申訴管道基本上我覺得漏洞百出所以難怪職場霸凌的問題層出不窮保訓會是不是後面可以給我們提出一個書面演繹如何去改善這個方向要怎麼去做"},{"start":13339.411,"end":13367.092,"text":"可以提出這書面報告嗎我希望這個事情我們一直講從去年勞動部發生到現在而且從勞動部發生之後我們才發現這個事情層出不窮而且每次都等到人往生之後才去檢討這件事情我說今天這個事情如果不是在3月26號社群網站披露"},{"start":13367.853,"end":13383.508,"text":"我們怎麼知道原來2月19號他的辭呈早就像行政院長說的清清楚楚但是根本連辦都沒有辦連處理都沒有處理連行政院都不知道這件事情是不是保訊會後面亡羊補牢吧"},{"start":13386.158,"end":13398.211,"text":"總委員報告一下就是行政院這個案子其實他是非陰身訴而知悉那如果前面他收到包含像是社群媒體所接收到的資訊甚至是像行政院長收到的簡訊類似這一類的資訊"},{"start":13401.398,"end":13407.147,"text":"對於機關來說他還是必須要進行一部分的去認定啦所以我剛剛有講啦之後才會進到防護委員會處長我剛剛有講啦所以防護委員會外部委員的成員的性質應該是沒有什麼關係啊"},{"start":13416.38,"end":13431.426,"text":"所以我剛剛有講啦你看我們根據公務人員執行植物安全及衛生防護辦法這個防護委員會他裡面他規章召集人是我們機關的副首長跟幕僚長可是"},{"start":13432.586,"end":13458.323,"text":"還有可能這個召集人就是當裡面的關係人也有可能就是當事人再加上你另外就算聘的召集人也是他的下屬啊他怎麼去執行他是不是在調查過程中是不是還要回去請示他的長官可不可以這樣子調查然後12個委員會裡面7個都是你們自己人連另外唯一的5個還是由你們指定來聘任"},{"start":13459.204,"end":13487.043,"text":"哪裡來的公信力難怪現在這個霸凌事件層出不窮每次爆發都是人往生之後再來檢討我說啊從去年前年等等發生了那麼多事情勞動部霸凌事件就說要深切的檢討到現在也沒超前部署也沒有及時處理又要亡羊補牢所以我覺得保訓會希望你真的提出一個研議的方向跟改善的辦法"},{"start":13489.805,"end":13498.05,"text":"好謝謝好謝謝圖千鈞委員的發言待會陳穎委員質詢完畢後休息20分鐘用餐現在請林素芬委員質詢好現在主席是不是請我們洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":13523.342,"end":13536.288,"text":"林委員好部長上次我在這裡質詢你關於開放12歲以下這個有子女的家庭進行申請外勞這個家事服務員的這個政策"},{"start":13537.473,"end":13564.581,"text":"走出去外面然後就有人來陳情了我們立法院裡面的職員工他就說他們真的很可憐因為他爸爸中風而他們的外籍移工因為知道了這個政策以後馬上就跟他說他要換轉換僱主他要去顧小孩比較他優先想要去選擇顧小孩的工作"},{"start":13566.145,"end":13594.204,"text":"這個是立法院的職員工我走出去人家就馬上來說那我中風的家人怎麼辦誰要顧所以我就想說難道我們的外籍移工我們所謂的外勞現在變成開放外勞來照顧弱勢照顧中風的照顧失能的要變成照顧最強勢的照顧最有錢的照顧優勢的嗎"},{"start":13596.346,"end":13602.001,"text":"因為大家都知道不是每一個有孩子的父母都請得起外勞"},{"start":13603.973,"end":13625.959,"text":"而大概會只有所得台灣人的全部的所得分成五等份第一等份的前五分之一的家庭才有能力去負擔去申請家庭幫傭的外勞而這個所得就是年所得要大概兩三百萬兩三百萬的所得的家庭才請得起"},{"start":13631.983,"end":13657.619,"text":"所以我從來沒有想到說有一天從照顧弱勢變成照顧最優勢最強勢的那就算了你們有沒有配套你可不可以永遠不覺得外勞提供那我就沒話說了他不但是這樣子要留住既有照顧中風和失能的外勞一個失能的家庭要留住這個外勞你知道他還要給他加多少薪水嗎"},{"start":13658.846,"end":13663.718,"text":"你不給他加薪 他要跑掉他就是要走那要加多少薪水啊"},{"start":13669.919,"end":13698.466,"text":"我可以說明嗎你說啊我們其實在去年8月的時候我們其實有做法規的修訂那是針對這個在家庭看護如果要轉換的話那在程序上應該要由這個重症家庭來優先來承接那必須符合14天內優先這個媒合給重症家庭那是要在沒有重症家庭承接的我現在要問你圖法不足以自行"},{"start":13699.346,"end":13714.014,"text":"你講這個都是道理講說你有配套這個都行不通啊他就每天跟你吵架我上個禮拜不是跟你講了嗎他就每天說你要讓我出去你要合意合意讓我走但是就算轉出去也是要優先讓中正家庭承接啊會嗎 是嗎現在法規修訂是這樣子的是嗎 有罰則嗎有罰則嗎要處罰仲介還是處罰外籍移工"},{"start":13728.615,"end":13746.823,"text":"有罰則嗎那個在轉換的順序上面我們有我現在問你說你有什麼處分的機制否則這個形同道德勸說你會處罰仲介嗎你會處罰外籍移工嗎你要換僱主要轉出去你不知道不少你不知道還要官僚告訴你所以你對這個配套你不知道嗎"},{"start":13757.425,"end":13783.459,"text":"這個機制存在而且在我們優先媒合的順序上面就是提供優先媒合那我就不走那個我就要直接轉去有人要我的小孩如果違反的話就會把他送出去我現在問你如果違反的話就會在60天內就會把他送出去所以你是懲罰這個外籍移工喔最好是喔不要在這裡吃我的肺如果惡性代工他不按照我們的法規來進行罰你這個如果就太離譜了叫惡性代工"},{"start":13784.54,"end":13788.503,"text":"他沒有惡性代工啊 我怎麼證明你怎麼證明他惡性代工他每天跟你玩遊戲沒在理你生氣 你如果生氣 你要給他擋手你就說你不行了多少人是這樣生氣了受不了大吵大鬧以後對外籍移工就動手了他就可以合法的轉換僱主了你在講的前提都是都是不食人間煙火的都沒有務實的"},{"start":13813.826,"end":13826.785,"text":"事實上就是吵架以後就可以轉換了事實上就是他不想要照顧重度失能的然後他就要去照顧小孩了事實上就是你沒有足夠的外勞來支撐"},{"start":13830.165,"end":13853.581,"text":"所以你讓移工市場外勞要留住他的經費 薪水大幅上升是啊 就是這樣子啊我們要講的是說 一個弱勢關懷出身的部長你端出這一種搶台灣人工作的政策讓台灣 欸 照顧小孩 家庭幫傭台灣不是找不到工耶 都有人在做耶"},{"start":13858.032,"end":13864.717,"text":"照顧小孩 不管是居家保姆不管是什麼樣的都收拓單位然後 欸少子化 今年生幾個孩子今年我都生十萬了有沒有越來越少的狀況整體的市場在萎縮然後保姆就是這樣子在那裡托兒中心在那裡你還要開放人家來搶保姆的生意"},{"start":13885.629,"end":13898.651,"text":"家庭幫傭 中典費的家庭家事服務工台灣人幫傭然後這個清潔工煮飯的都有人在做欸你開放人家來搶他們工作"},{"start":13899.744,"end":13911.307,"text":"你說台灣看護 本級看護 也有人耶所得 台灣前五分之一所得的有錢人有在調的 現在也在搶耶 也在搶榜樣耶其實是台灣人比較貴你現在把外籍移工可以搶 他媽想台灣的死掉 換小的"},{"start":13923.103,"end":13936.769,"text":"你這個政策第一個搶走了台灣人的工作第二個本來在照顧最需要的台灣人沒人要做的家庭失能的 中風的 重度殘障的這一個移工我們大家不該做啊所以台灣人失業外籍勞工缺工外勞缺工"},{"start":13950.259,"end":13955.621,"text":"重度癱瘓在那裡就沒人要走所以現在這樣叫人情何以堪啊你是弱勢關懷出身的部長然後你端出一個這樣的政策叫台灣人失業 叫外籍勞工缺工叫有錢的人 能夠入省籍 不能娶到熟的叫窮的人 乾坤的人 中風的家庭 娶沒人"},{"start":13979.64,"end":13984.827,"text":"這樣子怎麼行呢這樣子怎麼行呢然後你剛剛在這裡一開始你就報告了你說啊為了一間夜間啦臨時需求的沒人顧孩子啦所以呢"},{"start":13995,"end":14011.022,"text":"你們要開放這個外籍幫傭兼顧小孩啦然後呢你剛才又回答立委蘇貞欣跟你問你說因為現在有長輩當後援的家庭越來越少了需要人手所以開放了"},{"start":14012.148,"end":14019.571,"text":"寶庭 我問你 你是羅東寶寶庭 還是衛福部部長啦夜間臨時需求 拖兒育兒 這不是衛福部的業務嗎沒有長輩後援 所以你要開放外籍幫傭現在長輩是理所當然喔 長輩一定要到各個村"},{"start":14035.512,"end":14049.561,"text":"你這種思想裡面裝了什麼價值你應該講國家要進來幫忙政府要端出照顧公共化的政策你怎麼說長輩退位了 變少了不是這樣說的嘛"},{"start":14052.731,"end":14076.275,"text":"你作為一個所謂的進步人士你應該端出的是照顧公共化更多的你知道我們衛福部你有部位整合嗎你知道衛福部我們剛立了一個兒托法嗎我們這個裡面要加強各地方政府要有定點臨托還有活動臨托你知道這什麼意思嗎你不知道夜間臨時需求你剛才不是說要開放外樓"},{"start":14082.987,"end":14092.938,"text":"我們的定點零拖就是現在局府中心或地方政府可以設置更多的定點甚至連在車站都會設置定點零拖你有事 要走孩子來政府辦的政府委託檢查做的你上來 我跟你說三點鐘四點鐘你可以臨時拖的"},{"start":14105.561,"end":14113.186,"text":"這就是公共政策啊這就是我們額托法現在正在審查的啊這就是現在地方政府也有人在做的定點零托一天多你知不知道兩百塊如果不是三百塊有收沒 有啊"},{"start":14125.43,"end":14135.334,"text":"所以你要端出這種政策在衛福部的業務啊你勞動部去搶了衛福部你講的那些理由都好像是衛福部部長所以我不知道你你這樣子做你端出了這個東西你怎麼還有辦法在這裡講的義正言辭呢義正辭言呢不中"},{"start":14155.646,"end":14179.898,"text":"然後你說開放外籍幫庸的事業衝擊評估性別影響評估兒童最佳利益評估你們在做了你什麼時候可以做好什麼時候可以寫完你評估都還沒出來你就開放了4月13就要上路了評估都沒做好沒寫完你就出來了當然外面也有人講了啦你找台大某某人寫啦權威啦專家啦大家都很想看他評估出什麼樣子啦"},{"start":14185.711,"end":14188.713,"text":"他會照實評估嗎 大家也都拭目以待啦對不對你大概是什麼時候要公布 你們會做完相關的報告我們會在下一次的性評會的時候提出報告性評會 那失業衝擊評估呢"},{"start":14205.171,"end":14220.06,"text":"包括就業的影響包括這個性別的部分都會在下一次性評會的時候提出兒童最佳利益評估呢?下一次性評會議是什麼時候?行政院的?這段行政院安排啊這段什麼時候?所以你不知道啊?沒有擺就沒辦法?這個是定期的會議啊"},{"start":14228.973,"end":14256.323,"text":"你這個都沒有告訴我們你什麼時候要出來如果是定期你可以回答我什麼時候會出來啊但是確切的安排的時間是行政院那邊對啊你定期的下一次理論上應該是幾月包委我們那個姓平會好像3月30號才剛剛開完嘛所以是4月30還是5月30我們那個會看那個院那邊看院那邊的安排他說定期會開啊定期是多久一次"},{"start":14257.068,"end":14277.94,"text":"姓平輝我記得差不多四個月四個月喔所以你如果三個月三十再來叫到你四個月喔 你這法案政策就做下去了 再做到評估要從下都已經執行了 政策都執行了那我們要這個評估 不過評估出來說有衝擊 你都開放了怎麼辦委員 我想是 我知道委員對這個部門非常關心 我想跟委員"},{"start":14285.184,"end":14308.26,"text":"這個整個真的是我們的策略社會投資嘛我們知道現在家庭現在是在變遷當中我要委員報告就是說我們不是說我們現在要做這一行八行都不做 我要委員報告我沒有在問你啦 我現在在問外籍移工政策 外籍勞工政策啦你不可能拿補償回答 你先下去啦"},{"start":14310.387,"end":14324.022,"text":"我們是要檢視開放外籍邦傭的政策對台灣的勞工和托育的負面衝擊是什麼那台灣我要講不是我自己說的啦台灣障礙者權益促進會他們有一個新聞稿他們就是這樣講"},{"start":14328.487,"end":14339.172,"text":"政府雖然以協助育兒 釋放女性勞動力為名但是你缺乏完整的配套 沒有完整的影響評估下恐怕會惡化性別和階級的不平等擴大資源分配的不均 讓照顧責任進一步私有化淪為有錢人才能享有的特權"},{"start":14350.157,"end":14364.692,"text":"因為你所謂的前五分之一的家庭有能力負擔幫傭者這是典型的 這個政策是階級政策對障礙者家庭而言 他們很憂心他們憂心放寬幫傭資格 引發搶工效應"},{"start":14369.369,"end":14388.133,"text":"身心障礙者知道啊 搶工啊導致原本就吃緊的外籍看護人力被引流到工作條件較輕鬆的高所得家庭進一步稀釋掉弱勢障礙者的照顧資源照顧的困境會加劇我現在講 有錢人請幫忙我請台灣人可能五萬我請這個外籍移工三萬我給他們中金四萬"},{"start":14395.555,"end":14399.678,"text":"有一個普通人他們到外籍看護就好了可以給到四萬五萬的啊不可能嘛 不可能嘛所以會不會搶工 當然會除非源源不絕外籍移工的勞動力市場是供給大於需求才不會發生問題啦"},{"start":14422.485,"end":14429.408,"text":"現在外籍勞動力市場是進入賣方市場供給遠遠小於需求是我現在外籍移工要選雇主 不是雇主選移工遠遠小於需求 價格上升現在是移工選雇主所以會不會產生問題 當然會產生問題現在我請教你說"},{"start":14449.1,"end":14466.066,"text":"這個政策到底是不是階級政策部長你說說看這政策是不是階級政策跟委員說沒有第一個其實對於整體的相關育兒支持相關的政策這其實是一個整體的政策組合不要講育兒啦連家庭幫傭都一樣他搶走台灣人幫傭的工作嘛"},{"start":14470.41,"end":14496.067,"text":"所以我們針對不同的需求我們會規劃不同的政策我現在問你這是不是階級政策只服務所得前五分之一的是不是我們針對不同的需求會設計不同的政策那其他所得五分之四的人育兒的家庭難道他們就沒有需求了嗎也會設計其他的政策去協助他們那請問你他要夜間臨時這個需求他回家很累家務不想做了那你要怎麼幫他"},{"start":14498.55,"end":14515.02,"text":"你幫他什麼其他五分之四的喔他回去也很累了他回去也不想工作了他也不想做家事了那請問你端出什麼政策幫他我們當然要用其他的政策沒有啦 你沒有辦法幫他嘛不是嗎 你應該這樣我現在跟你講說你沒有辦法幫他"},{"start":14525.117,"end":14529.298,"text":"外傭可以幫你接小孩 但他不能讓你準時下班外傭可以幫你煮飯 但他不能幫你加薪外傭可以幫你陪孩子 但他不可能替代父母在教育上的角色更現實一點 連外傭本身也需要被管理 被安排 被負責你會發現最後可能是女人"},{"start":14548.664,"end":14555.091,"text":"女人不只是說多一個幫手 而還多了一份工作還要一份人力資源調配部門的兼職"},{"start":14557.654,"end":14583.505,"text":"事實上這個政策是假設家庭可以無痛升級成小型雇主單位政府將照顧的責任和問題丟給家庭然後家庭再把壓力轉嫁給外勞再將照護工作的性別責任轉嫁給更弱勢的勞工把照護責任從本國女性轉嫁到外籍廉價的女性勞動力"},{"start":14584.905,"end":14610.964,"text":"這個是一個很典型的責任向下流動的鏈條所以中產家庭勉強強稱低薪家庭用不起高收入的家庭本來就不缺他只是花的錢成本高或低看起來好像是大家都受益事實上是擴大階級這個差距啦為什麼要講這個呢我現在在跟你討論喔你知道"},{"start":14614.895,"end":14624.462,"text":"在很多人其實都走過這一段路 以新加坡為例新加坡來我找一個新加坡的這個數據以新加坡為例 其實他們開放嘛 而且他們沒有最低工資嘛 對嘛"},{"start":14634.949,"end":14656.55,"text":"新加坡在2010年有一個Teresa還有一個Leon我不曉得這個那個啦他發表了一篇Made for work-life balance think again中文譯文叫做用女傭換取工作與生活平衡嗎可以嗎請三思他點出了新加坡社會對外籍家庭幫傭的依賴但是"},{"start":14659.212,"end":14679.269,"text":"為社會帶來沉重的代價不但強化了鞏固了照顧應該有女性而不是男性負責還導致企業僱主忽略職場育兒友善的必要性然後可以不在乎員工工作生活平衡的需求所以在這種狀況裡面他們就發現其實並不是只有利沒有弊"},{"start":14684.733,"end":14705.818,"text":"然後員工想要請假 你家裡不是有幫傭了嗎你怎麼還請假 我想要回去顧小孩 不行啊你家裡有幫傭啦所以這個政策並不是說有錢人都只有得到好處而已他可能讓他的僱主更有理由和更有藉口那我現在在講說不是一般人請得起的啊現在連有三間房的"},{"start":14714.711,"end":14726.349,"text":"這個住宅都很少事實上也買不起這個你知道在台北市喔每月生活所必須喔撫養一個人是48910元"},{"start":14730.023,"end":14756.714,"text":"是 撫養一個人是每月要四萬八千九百一十元事實上再不要講房貸 車貸還有這個其他的費用啦事實上的確就是錢所得全台灣人的所得 錢等據五個等據裡面的第一等據的人有辦法負擔得起其他都沒有辦法連空間 生活空間都沒有辦法負擔得起歐洲人口學刊喔 這個"},{"start":14758.24,"end":14772.519,"text":"European Journal of Population早在2013年就有一篇由人口學家叫Angela還有經濟學家Oliver他撰寫的論文他明白指出長工時會減少生育率"},{"start":14773.3,"end":14791.831,"text":"而且由於女性就業以後蠟燭兩頭燒的壓力遠遠高於男性所以長工時對女性的生育率殺傷力尤其大他們計算出的結果是一個國家的女性平均年總工時增加100個小時生育率將會減少0.08%"},{"start":14796.1,"end":14824.398,"text":"人口經濟學的雜誌2023年也提到雇用外籍幫傭有望減輕家長養育子女的負擔但有些學者也表示在考慮家務外包對生育決策的影響時後面還有很多重的機制在運作文章提到聘僱家庭幫傭家長實際上可以擁有更多時間可能會育兒"},{"start":14825.499,"end":14843.971,"text":"也有可能真的會提高他們的意願但是第一種第一種原本就全職沒有上班全職從事家務的女性有了家庭幫傭以後會待在家的成本會變高因為開支變多了他們就會選擇進入勞動市場"},{"start":14847.466,"end":14869.503,"text":"但廣義而言女性可能會選擇就業增加勞動時間然後這樣子你以為是好了 增加勞動力 不因為這樣子他們對生育的意願就受到負面的影響這是第一種你以為有人來幫我了 我要去工作了但是工作 長工時就不想生了第二種"},{"start":14873.291,"end":14896.434,"text":"聘僱家庭的幫傭對本來就有工作剛才是本來沒有工作的現在是本來就在工作就業中的女性而言也會產生負面影響例如為了獲得晉升或追求更高職位而延長工作時間或者是老闆知道你有家庭幫傭事情都找你做你也回不了家"},{"start":14897.495,"end":14918.317,"text":"所以這個是人口經濟學雜誌在2023年提到你以為家庭幫傭制度完美無缺提升女性勞動力提升生育率事實上不是那台灣呢台灣的總工時名列前茅啊112年南韓的總工時一年多少"},{"start":14921.983,"end":14930.229,"text":"1874日本的總工時是多少1637北歐的瑞典1416西歐的荷蘭1351112年的台灣總工時2019韓國1874日本1637"},{"start":14943.092,"end":14971.801,"text":"所以如果人口學家那個Angela跟那個經濟學家Oliver的量化研究論文這個推論台灣總生育率極低完全就是預料之中因為工時太工時太長對生育率生育的意願太低那外籍邦庸最泛濫的國家是哪一個國家新加坡啊新加坡啊"},{"start":14973.304,"end":14982.676,"text":"剛剛不是講了嗎 新加坡的外籍邦庸政策全開放他新加坡一年總工時多少 112年總工時多少2267亞洲第一高不是嗎"},{"start":14994.053,"end":15021.104,"text":"所以呢就算在職的女性需要聘請幫手來協助家務她的月薪要多少肯定一定要比一定要比這個聘僱外傭的薪水更高那如果還沒工作的女性未來她從事的工作薪資要多少錢才能夠負擔起去引進這個外傭呢這個薪資年薪沒有數百萬真的是沒那麼容易啦"},{"start":15022.779,"end":15035.126,"text":"女性為什麼要主動放棄就業選擇在家育兒部長為什麼為什麼女性要準備生小孩在家育兒的時候勞動力就下滑為什麼為什麼是女性保定為什麼你也是要回答因為女性可能她薪資是比較低的對啊薪資比較低啊那你做了什麼你勞動部做了什麼你要提高女性的勞參率"},{"start":15053.345,"end":15072.573,"text":"那你做了什麼 你端出了什麼讓女性繼續留在職場 不要 不要而不是說為了顧小孩 然後就不上班因為顧小孩的成本很高我上班的薪水這麼一點點那不如我自己顧 不是嗎"},{"start":15074.983,"end":15099.417,"text":"所以你要解決這個勞參慮你應該端出你的政策而不是只有外籍幫傭而且為什麼會這樣放棄就業都不是所得前五分之一那一種女性啦那一種家庭啦都是你沒看到的所得全台灣所得五分之一以外的五分之四的家庭的女性"},{"start":15100.956,"end":15112.259,"text":"而勞動力最多這一群也是最重要的你服務那五分之一的所得前五分之一的那所得後面五分之四的人怎麼辦呢怎麼辦呢你這個東西就是看得出來女性仍然是家務跟育兒實質的承擔者號稱要留住女性 女性勞工你都沒有解決這個問題"},{"start":15130.776,"end":15150.492,"text":"薪資低於聘僱外籍幫傭的成本或外籍或者是保姆的成本所以即便有意願也沒有辦法他要請外傭也沒辦法就算有能力好他有能力的女性好了他請一個外籍幫傭可能你變相的要投入工作的時間要更長這也是另一種剝削啊對不對所以這個政策"},{"start":15161.53,"end":15186.182,"text":"我再說一遍 外籍包容這個政策真的會造成台灣人失業 外籍勞工短缺然後大家搶移工 只有錢留得住移工那沒有錢的 中風的 失能的 癱瘓的這一些真正需要 最需要長照的照顧的體系的這一些家庭怎麼辦"},{"start":15187.503,"end":15202.588,"text":"而顧小孩的家庭幫傭的那些有錢人他本來就買得起結果你讓他有便宜的外勞他解雇他自己家庭裡面的本勞這樣這樣子好嗎部長請和一看"},{"start":15212.371,"end":15222.713,"text":"跟人說其實這段時間的確其實有很多其實是中產的雙性家庭來表達他們的確很有需要這個政策"},{"start":15223.786,"end":15243.931,"text":"你現在講的中產的雙薪的家庭的確很需要這個政策他們的實質薪水是多少他們的代表性是什麼因為每次勞動部推了一個什麼政策都會說我們去做了有意願你們沒有做好失業衝擊評估你們先做好需求評估這就是還沒設建未設建先畫把都已經畫好了啊早就知道啦"},{"start":15254.281,"end":15281.33,"text":"你講這些話 敢對你過去的自己會膽大你說中產的 中產的也有能力 你不是講有錢人你意思是說 有錢人請得起 中產的家庭也請得起一個外傭委員的確是有中產的中心家庭教導的確有啊 當然也有啊那我問你 你定義的中產家庭是什麼啦你所定義的中產薪水的家庭是多少叫中產 你可以告訴我嗎"},{"start":15283.456,"end":15299.093,"text":"他跟我表達他們可能雙薪是個人還是多數那你所謂的中產階級雙薪是多少錢可能爸爸媽媽加起來可能有十多萬出頭的薪資他們就希望能夠請"},{"start":15301.438,"end":15315.853,"text":"10多萬的薪水他本來是不是就有需求他本來那他本來他有沒有請人在顧他如果要他的確反應因為夜間所以你這個政策是顧孩子為主家庭幫傭為輔不是"},{"start":15321.058,"end":15338.366,"text":"那我現在告訴你新加坡那個例子新加坡人家走過了那一段路新加坡的例子你又是怎麼講你現在都可以繼續講繼續拗啊但是新加坡就告訴你活先生的例子就在那裡了"},{"start":15342.121,"end":15356.068,"text":"讓婦女出去外面工時越來越長然後家庭工作沒有得到平衡然後呢我剛剛已經我也是跟你講了很多遍啊外傭可以幫你接小孩但他不能讓你準時下班"},{"start":15357.168,"end":15376.283,"text":"可以兼你的小孩但你不能準時下班外傭可以幫你煮飯但他不會幫你加薪外傭可以幫你陪孩子但他沒有辦法成為他的父母你孩子的父母在教育上該扮演的角色父母該有的陪伴的角色"},{"start":15381.109,"end":15403.169,"text":"我的意思是說 五分之四的人家庭需求 你怎麼辦 你怎麼沒有端出來你只服 這是不是一個階級政策你說不是啊 因為中產人員 有人跟你反應啊 有人跟你反應就可以了那我在這裡也跟你大聲疾呼陳情 為那些癱瘓的 失能的 中風的家庭在這裡跟你請命"},{"start":15404.426,"end":15431.716,"text":"你讓他們的外勞不要跟他吵架說要轉換雇主要去雇有錢人的小孩我也在這裡幫中風的、癱瘓的、失能的家庭跟你請命請你不要說不加薪的話他就要跑了我會替他們跟你請命不要為了照顧啊每天蓋腰巴擦我也替他們請命可以不要讓他們的家屬心驚膽戰說我中風的父母不知道什麼人要照顧"},{"start":15435.226,"end":15451.826,"text":"那你怎麼辦 你端出一個什麼政策給我們有人跟你請命說 我很辛苦 我需要有人幫我照顧孩子 照顧家務那這一群 這一群失能的 癱瘓的 家庭的辛苦 什麼人要幫他解決"},{"start":15456.55,"end":15468.876,"text":"我也在這裡請命啊真的 真的 不然你去想辦法讓外籍移工的供給源源不絕供不應求供大於求現在是供不應求 你讓他供大於求啊現在不是台灣人在唱歌日本 韓國 世界都在唱外籍勞工"},{"start":15485.899,"end":15495.105,"text":"大家全世界都在搶工欸不要以為外籍移工開放這麼簡單就不是啦謝謝林淑芬委員的質詢現在請陳委員質詢"},{"start":15521.152,"end":15547.378,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩請一下洪部長好 請洪部長主委好部長好 首先想要先跟您請教一下答案都跟你說了 跟你看了但是我想問的是原住民的職在千人綠"},{"start":15549.67,"end":15571.587,"text":"你給他看沒關係啊 那也不是今年的吧我要問你今年的114年原住民的職災牽人率是多少我請跟委員報告我們現在正在統計中那初步的資料是職災牽人率是3.267那全產業的職災牽人率又是多少全產業的沒有統計"},{"start":15581.158,"end":15609.453,"text":"我們可能要再查一下數據我幫你查好這2點你們也還沒公佈我就不要聽你們公佈了對因為113年我這邊簡報上面是前年的那去年的我們目前還沒有看到那這目前你們還沒公佈那這個兩者的相差他有一些差距那部長你怎麼看待這個差距有什麼特別的意義嗎"},{"start":15611.611,"end":15629.2,"text":"對 的確原住民族他在很多他的就業跟職業上面可能是比較會是高風險的職場的確我們也看到這個狀況第一個來部長我跟你說一下換算給你看那每年大約有上萬件的這個職災發生以114年來看總共有25371件意思是說呢在這個兩萬"},{"start":15639.665,"end":15660.484,"text":"大概25000件的植栽里面呢比例换算一下从这个刚刚植栽千人率这样换算起来我们大概原住民的部分有占了15000人那其他族群的部分加起来大约有1万人左右这个比例是这样看起来是很可怕的那"},{"start":15662.064,"end":15689.189,"text":"原住民的這個職災宣導跟統計我們在過去在這個研究所就是我們前所長何俊傑的帶領之下他有特別建置了這個專屬的網站可以利用那這個網站在過去定期會分析原住民的這個職災的特性那這也顯示勞動部對於原住民高發生率的職災是有所重視的"},{"start":15690.089,"end":15712.735,"text":"那只是說在他離開之後那我們最近想要再查詢這個網站那我特別上網去看你們在這個網頁3月30號的時候有更新這個要給你們拍拍手但是我很認真的再去看一下裡面的內容卻停留在"},{"start":15713.815,"end":15732.898,"text":"去年就是去年114年2月17日裡面的內容是完全沒有更新了所以本席會合理的懷疑所以我們是不是因為今天有這個專報然後你們要來備詢所以我趕快做個假動作那個網頁給他更新一下而且只有一人瀏覽那一人就是我們啊"},{"start":15734.085,"end":15751.671,"text":"不是他主要是他的資料的時間出來因為他可能涉及到勞保的資料然後我們還要跟內政部所以我們今年其實應該是在三月中的時候重點是因為網頁今天三月三十要有更新而且這已經就是有過了一年多了這有一年多的差距"},{"start":15752.571,"end":15770.883,"text":"那比較重要的是說我們看一下113年是比112年植栽增加了64例那我不知道說114年它會繼續上升還是下降那因為我要講的是整體來說114年應該是下降的"},{"start":15774.165,"end":15795.595,"text":"那我們下降聽起來很好 好消息 但我們來細看一下114年度職災死亡的人數是251人比這個前年度要減少了36人看起來如部長所說的 我們這個降災的成效看起來是不錯的"},{"start":15797.315,"end":15824.713,"text":"我覺得還有精進的空間好沒關係但是至少看起來人數下降嘛那這個要給你拍拍手但是呢我們在西部看一下實際上是因為今年我們的這個近年我們住宅的開工數也下降了下降了兩趴那也就是等於少了將近三千戶左右那這個也是一個很重要的數據那我們這樣換算起來"},{"start":15826.234,"end":15843.943,"text":"可能就不一定是這個降災成效良好了因為更何況在你們的這個製造業就是說這個製造業的死亡人數他是比去年增加了7人那total是你看在全產業"},{"start":15845.524,"end":15862.154,"text":"這個7不要小看這7個人這就已經佔了這個增加這7個等於佔了全產業的25%的死亡人數了好這個是很高的好那我們再看一下喔就是在"},{"start":15866.277,"end":15879.126,"text":"教育跟宣導是當然是這個旨在預防非常重要的措施那感覺過去你們看起來是比較重視那畢竟就是說原住民利用這個我們遂時祭儀還有"},{"start":15881.948,"end":15905.763,"text":"各類的活動像射箭、壘球比賽等等你們在這些活動上藉這樣子人數聚集的時候我們大力的宣導當然這是過去研究所所主導而且有看到一些好成績但是同時我在這邊也要提醒勞動部就是我們要注意數據的正確性"},{"start":15907.964,"end":15923.318,"text":"那也不要像職安署就是說曾經他發布了然後又增加重大職災人數因為必要的時候部長你也可以請這個跟這個勞保局可以再確認一下部長是不是可以同意這樣的建議"},{"start":15924.699,"end":15950.948,"text":"我們當然會請治安署跟勞保局都保持資料上面的對接今年初其實的確有一度我們有增加幾個人重大自災人數但比較大的原因是因為當時其實有一些自災認定案件還在司法單位裡面其實檢察官還在認定那後來檢方把那個他的資料給確認出來以後他是自災所以我們也很直接的就把這些相關的數字加上去那我們都不會隱匿不會隱匿絕對不會隱匿"},{"start":15954.974,"end":15981.331,"text":"因为大家都会去看当年的这个换算的人数嘛那至于你说每年都要去解释为什么增加为什么我们现在会是每季那我想这个部分就提醒你们我每三个月就公布一次那这个另外要也是要再提醒劳动部就是说我们"},{"start":15982.572,"end":16005.568,"text":"就是說在這個你們那個下降就是說數據一下下降太顯著太漂亮然後又沒有分析原因的時候然後發布的時間又比往年要再晚我說這樣的種種種種的這個跡象會讓我們難免去質疑這個數據的真實性所以跟我們說明我們接下來會是每三個月每一季就會發布一次好"},{"start":16006.633,"end":16035.432,"text":"那我們就拭目以待希望有所精進那另外就是說勞研所的這個績效跟部長是不是重視會不會有沒有在重視是有很大的關係因為這個機構呢他當然配合這103年2月勞委會升格為勞動部之後呢所有的預算跟人員呢都沒有變動那全部都是職業安全衛生的背景的研究人員"},{"start":16036.913,"end":16064.429,"text":"那但是呢我們檢視一下這個政府的所長還有新來的主命呢都不是這個職業安全衛生的這個職安衛的這個專業的人去領導那本席只是想要請教說部長這樣子的安排在領導統一上會不會容易出問題那專業上有沒有說服力"},{"start":16065.666,"end":16093.435,"text":"會不會容易做出錯誤的決策跟判斷而不自知然後造成而且底下的這些專業的部署可能也不敢多說什麼那這些呢可能都會影響到部長做出一些在做判斷的時候做決策的時候可能會有一些落差那我想我不知道部長有沒有掌握這樣的問題或者認為這樣根本也不是問題"},{"start":16094.858,"end":16109.518,"text":"跟文說明第一個因為確實我們研究所這邊過去比較多會是專案位的人員但其實近年外界越來越重視很多關於勞動市場相關的研究所以我們這幾年尤其是跟勞動力有關的好"},{"start":16109.838,"end":16127.318,"text":"包括跟就業有關的這也其實是在我們整個研究的範圍裡面所以我們整個接下來當然我們還是會保持因為我們的在這個研究所的一個優勢就是針對職安衛的研究的部分可是接下來我們也會要來強化在勞動市場上面的研究因為這也是現在包括大家提到缺工的問題"},{"start":16128.699,"end":16148.672,"text":"包括各種勞動型態的研究的問題這可能過去不是傳統資安會範圍的但是我講的是我剛剛談的問題主要是集中在我們的第一層一層的這個專業人士的部分他們的專業因為畢竟這個領導你也可以平衡一下"},{"start":16149.853,"end":16164.105,"text":"我的問題在這裡其實因為現在王首長他之前在勞動部的重規師其實重規師就是掌握跟了解整個勞動部相關的政策其實都有一定程度的了解"},{"start":16165.006,"end":16185.677,"text":"所以當然這個如果委員有什麼建議我們可以也再來跟委員聽取委員的建議那或者是有什麼提醒也可以再提醒我們我想我點出這個問題啦那那個部長重不重視認為是不是有問題就是我也沒有辦法勉強但我想"},{"start":16187.398,"end":16206.512,"text":"在針對因為我們是監督單位那我就提出這樣子的提醒那另外就是說今天另外的議題是霸凌那目前就是說有關於這個職場霸凌的諮詢專線我們查了一下除了1955之外還有這個職安署跟這個勞工健康服務的心理諮商專線並沒有專責的這個服務單位你們未來會設置嗎"},{"start":16214.318,"end":16231.211,"text":"會想要設置在哪裡嗎我想接下來在預防重圓中心我們會來規劃相關的機制好這樣很好謝謝那職安署的這個職場霸凌申訴管道申訴專線跟傳真請問從這個職安法的霸凌專章通過之後接到申訴服務的次數次量有沒有統計有沒有"},{"start":16234.054,"end":16246.463,"text":"對 你們有統計嗎跟委員報告 因為現行是條文還沒施行不過過去以來的不罰侵害的這個案件都有持續在接受跟統計所以目前是沒有啦因為還沒上路"},{"start":16249.245,"end":16276.052,"text":"因為只要是涉及到人的管理就有可能有這個霸凌的發生那這個涉及到客觀的事實跟主觀的感受那勞動部呢剛好就自己你們都遇到了那第一案呢謝一榮的案子勞動部從一開始調查是不成立的後來因為龐大的這個輿論壓力那我們又重啟調查然後又成立了這個就是他重新調查之後又成立了"},{"start":16277.192,"end":16296.806,"text":"結果法院認定霸凌案又不成立另外一件是裁判法人職在中心主管的霸凌案法院內部調查經過三次會議決議才認定霸凌案成立過程看起來是非常嚴謹"},{"start":16298.608,"end":16312.301,"text":"但是呢這位被認定霸凌案的副處長卻還不斷的去提告申訴人證人還有調查委員結果呢反而被法院的這個判決書"},{"start":16314.002,"end":16336.621,"text":"把這個調查的這個過程結果認定霸凌案的理由公開那結果呢就變成了這個是霸凌專章通過之後我國第一件我們第一件由法院引用職安法認證通過的霸凌案成立那我想要請部長去看一下那份判決書就是"},{"start":16339.242,"end":16352.648,"text":"臺灣臺北地方法院114年度勞檢制第183號民事判決原告葉秀珊告證人原告之訴駁回我想我把這一份就先送給部長"},{"start":16374.699,"end":16400.28,"text":"這個看起來職安署負責的調查程序跟結果遠遠不如你們當時的這個職災中心能夠在司法認證上站得住腳那部長你知道嗎有聽說這位副處長在調查階段有私下事先跟調查委員接觸我想請教部長調查委員的名單是不是不公開"},{"start":16402.166,"end":16431.014,"text":"應該是不公開吧他不能事先公開吧根文說明第一個在重現中心當時有幾件的霸凌案我們都依照相關的程序來辦理所以確實因為這當然涉及到一些個資那幾件案子那確實有霸凌成立的情況他不是到法院才認定霸凌成立是在我們在這個重現中心在法人的調查裡面就認定"},{"start":16432.174,"end":16457.299,"text":"成立的對而且認定完以後也做了相關的處置好在法人那個時候就認定成立是好那你可能要關注一下後續的發展對所以後來我現在後來又有他們提高到法院部長我現在問的你要回答我我現在問的是調查委員的名單是可以事先公開的嗎因為"},{"start":16460.526,"end":16489.383,"text":"因為你們的這位副處長他事先去跟著這個調查委員接觸了啊你不知道這件事嗎你知道嗎調查委員的名單我們其實並沒有公開好那我想請問葉秀珊副處長他是如何得知調查委員是誰那他怎麼可以事先去找調查委員部長你要不要回去調查一下為什麼"},{"start":16490.023,"end":16499.425,"text":"委員我不確定他怎麼知道但我要可以說的事情是說這個案子基本上這個內部的調查霸凌就是成立的"},{"start":16500.768,"end":16528.07,"text":"我要在這裡 我現在不是部長你稍等一下 部長你弄清楚我的問題我今天我不是在跟你討論霸凌案 我不是在跟你計較霸凌案在你們內部就已經成立還是到法院才成立我今天我在乎的是為什麼這個副處長他可以事先知道這個調查委員的名單如果你們在這件事情上不能好好把關的話那未來會變成什麼樣子"},{"start":16531.115,"end":16542.301,"text":"所以我今天在這裡要求我很清楚有掌握這個訊息業副處長他有跟調查委員他有去找他有接觸那"},{"start":16545.802,"end":16565.254,"text":"你要很正式我提出來今天這個問題因為他可能就是成為未來你們在處理所有的大靈案的一個很重要的一個破口所以如果你有相關的資訊的話其實你可以提供給我們但是問題是這個葉副處長到處告人搞不好我今天質詢完他也告我呀"},{"start":16567.12,"end":16581.015,"text":"雖然不會成立但是他可能也會到處告啦那我要提一下啦就如果你有明確的事實的話你也可以提供給我們部長你暫時不要再跟我反駁任何事情因為我告訴你有這件事情那我們要提出來是因為"},{"start":16583.176,"end":16611.182,"text":"我希望你做調查你去調查為什麼會發生然後你把這個調查結果跟本席報告跟我們所有委員衛環委員會的委員來報告我為什麼要你做這個動作因為未來如果有內部的人因此受影響而有特定的立場造成有一方被冤枉了那80專章未來還可以保護勞工嗎還是說變成有利人士的這些可以興風作浪的源頭"},{"start":16612.5,"end":16636.39,"text":"好我今天特別指出這個問題我是要你杜絕未來有可能發生同樣的問題所以你一定要回去調查所以委員當時在這個法人裡面的確有幾件霸凌案的調查霸凌案成立以後我們在人事上面都做了處理的就是希望杜絕也希望能夠讓法人有一個新的在人事上面一個新的開始"},{"start":16637.369,"end":16656.143,"text":"所以我們也不希望說未來負責調查的或者去做證人的都被變成被告或者是甚至被開除或者甚至被反告變成是霸凌的對象這些都是不對啦"},{"start":16657.659,"end":16672.811,"text":"所以一般的法律都可以透過執法或者這個行政命令來確保這個法律的效果可以被發揮那你們現在既然訂了這個霸凌專章但是你們卻沒有這個實質程序禁止行為等等的宣示都沒有所以"},{"start":16673.752,"end":16701.935,"text":"而且也沒有這個諮詢服務的專責單位所以我希望的勞動部你們可以再繼續加油要有所作為讓自己通過的法案能夠真正發揮到保護被霸凌的勞工還是說明說現在附屬法規正在修訂中所以剛才委員剛才講到的幾個點包括禁止的部分在新的附屬法規裡面我們都放進去對這是在去年底的修法之後然後再新訂的附屬法規那我們希望能夠在7月1號可以上路"},{"start":16702.861,"end":16719.706,"text":"好那這個部分我剛剛講的那個事先那個名單洩漏然後被我是說那個葉副處長去找的這件事情好你們一定要好好調查清楚如果有委員有什麼相關資訊也可以再提供給我們我們來確認對謝謝謝謝陳營委的質詢現在休息20分鐘"},{"start":17936.391,"end":17937.033,"text":"現在繼續開會我們現在請王振旭委員質詢"},{"start":17956.437,"end":17971.334,"text":"好 謝謝主席謝謝主席今天排了這麼豐富這麼多元的主題大家可以來針對必要的主題做更多的質詢那小武部長已經不在現場我們就麻煩次長好 我請次長是"},{"start":17976.944,"end":17999.483,"text":"請委員保重是 謝謝市長的問候還有關心我想針對今天開放外籍邦傭就是外籍家事移工的部分很多委員也都有很多相關的意見基本上其實都是針對我國應該要改善育兒環境的期待希望能夠讓他做得更好也讓我們這些年輕的勞工朋友們"},{"start":18000.083,"end":18010.902,"text":"在他照顧育兒同時呢都能夠有更好的資源來協助他們來把事情做好所以今天還是想要針對整體育兒政策的強化來跟市長這邊做個討論"},{"start":18013.353,"end":18040.004,"text":"那第一個部分呢就是有關於這個育兒彈性配套擴大領到六歲這一部分那首先真的要先肯定勞動部在推動育嬰留庭彈性化這邊的努力這個努力呢經過今年一二月開始推動這個新制以來根據貴部的統計不管是在申請的數量或者是在這個促進育兒性平的部分"},{"start":18040.544,"end":18059.568,"text":"看起來都進步非常的多大家也都感同身受知道這樣的政策是對我們這些民眾有非常大的幫忙也是因為這樣成效非常不錯所以大家也會期待現在0到3歲的這個育兒友善措施能不能夠擴大從變成0到6歲"},{"start":18063.169,"end":18083.983,"text":"那其實不管是今天早上很多委員或者是甚至在總諮詢的時候劉建國委員也有跟我們院長還有跟部長共同來質詢過類似的問題那個時候洪部長也有在說他會研議看來有沒有機會在下半年能夠提出這個修法的版本就是針對0到6歲的這個延長的部分"},{"start":18087.705,"end":18110.475,"text":"除了委員很關心以外其實我們很多的民團也都曾經表達類似的訴求就是希望這些育兒友善的措施能夠再開放他這個年齡這個大家共同期待主要原因是因為三歲以上到六歲甚至小學的低年級其實這個需求都還是明顯的存在"},{"start":18111.255,"end":18139.12,"text":"如果我們要落實這個雙就業還有雙照顧的這樣的政策那就是要讓雙薪家庭的父母都能夠兼顧到工作與育兒照顧所以三歲以上的托育服務機構依照現況常常尤其是在不同的季節會因為腸病毒或流感等等的情況而有需要停班停課的情形之下這些的家長需要用額外的時間來做接送這是普遍的存在"},{"start":18140.2,"end":18159.831,"text":"所以我相信民間團體這樣的訴求跟委員或者是大家社會的期待是相當一致的所以在這邊就有希望勞動部在研議修法的時候能夠一併跟下列的三個部分來做研議的對象第一個就是有關的"},{"start":18161.011,"end":18184.176,"text":"這個性別平等工作法第16條可以來申請這個育嬰留停的年齡從0到3歲變成0到6歲那第二部分就是就業保險法第11條跟第19條之二有關於這個育嬰留職停薪期間的這個津貼的額度算是還有這個裁員也一併來考量"},{"start":18185.436,"end":18203.112,"text":"第三個就是有關性別平等工作法第十九條30天以上的失業單位工時來縮減或者是調整的制度那這三個法我們其實辦公室也都有提出相關的法案的修正內容那如果說下半年能夠讓這個修法有順利的來推動的話"},{"start":18203.973,"end":18223.773,"text":"那我們希望在未來三個月的時間裡面能不能夠針對這個擴大育兒友善措施的年齡延伸到六歲的演繹的結果能夠提供給委員會做一個參考那這邊不知道次長有沒有相關的一些想法是跟委員報告就是"},{"start":18225.763,"end":18254.655,"text":"國家在面對整體的人口結構的變化還有友善家庭甚至於職場的部分各部會都有完整的分工那在勞動部的部分主要是雙就業雙照顧這一塊那有一部分需要短期脫離職場在育嬰留庭的部分我們要讓他能夠回復到職場來也讓他的育嬰留庭可以比較容易去申請所以我們就會擴大到按日然後有一部分是屬於家庭照顧的部分我們擴大到按時"},{"start":18255.515,"end":18270.494,"text":"那有一些是屬於彈性工作時間的安排我們也在積極推出當中所以有關性別工作平等法在相應的部分委員所指教的包括育嬰留庭是不是可以從三歲放寬到六歲以上或者是說"},{"start":18271.355,"end":18299.386,"text":"就業保險法裡面這一邊原來我們透過公務預算加給兩成的部分算是裁員各方面還有30人以上的調整工時縮減的這些相應的制度我們洪部長有特別在大院答詢的時候有說我們會在今年下半年並同的整體來做一個考量看可不可以在下半年有一個比較好的完整的想法所以委員所指教的這幾個部分我們都會審慎的來納入思考案的研議"},{"start":18300.026,"end":18324.532,"text":"好那就像這個原意的這個成果報告也可以先在三個月提供給我們做參考是是好謝謝那再過來就是有關於日本育兒友善措施的彈性化日本跟我們面臨的困境其實是非常類似就是他們的勞動力也不足那少子化也非常的嚴重我們可以看到日本的育兒介護休業法"},{"start":18324.932,"end":18352.44,"text":"他們在2024年也做一個很完整的修法那這些修法後來在2025年的4月1日還有2025年的10月1號開始分別這個實施上路那這個內容呢就會包括涉及適用年齡的擴大申請室友的放寬還有育兒方案的彈性選項等等這邊我們可以看到的就是有關於在4月1號修"},{"start":18353.96,"end":18380.567,"text":"開始實施的部分他們修法的內容裡面在事業要商路的部分就是將這個室友擴大到傳染病導致的停班停課這就是我們目前也希望能夠針對這個部分也把它納進來那他們還包括像入學或者是在畢業典禮上面也都讓這些家長們是當作一個室教的一個室友"},{"start":18381.187,"end":18406.307,"text":"另外他們的這個申請範圍也從就學前擴大到小學三年級主要是因為他們是小學一二三年級還是上半天的課上家長有更方便那我們這次是期待先放到六歲未來是不是能夠適度的再放寬我們是可以再參考的那在10月1號開始實施的部分他們更特別的就是針對於"},{"start":18409.429,"end":18434.854,"text":"在要求僱主的部分是有更好的一個方做法他們的做法就是希望說能夠有設定一個五項的一個必要的措施讓這些需要來做相對來做處理的部分能夠有所選擇那我把他們的這個五項的措施提供給這個次長來做參考"},{"start":18437.455,"end":18456.202,"text":"他們就是針對於在子女三歲到小學之前雇主可以提供五項的這個育兒的措施其中有兩項是可以提供給這個員工來做參考那員工呢再從其中裡面折一來利用那這個五項這麼有彈性的這個內容"},{"start":18458.643,"end":18483.207,"text":"雇主的義務第一個就是變更這個使業的時間就是包括彈性工時跟實測的出勤第二個就是遠距辦公可以每個月有10天以上第三項就是設置或者是營運的托育設施第四項就是養育兩立資源的休假就是每年有10天以上做選擇第五項就是短時間的勤務制度"},{"start":18484.328,"end":18499.462,"text":"就是僱主必須要從這個法定的五項裡面呢他們選擇兩項以上來實施那從裡面再讓勞工可以選擇一項來利用那這個過程當然他們有義務需要跟這個勞工"},{"start":18501.063,"end":18516.349,"text":"做一個互動做一個關懷讓人在選擇的時候更知道為什麼他要做這樣的選擇那他們也非常鼓勵但不是強制說一定要遠距辦公這樣的需求那我相信這樣日本的修法"},{"start":18517.85,"end":18532.83,"text":"當有他們當地的條件可是也應該可以當為我們台灣在修法的時候一個重要的參考那不知道市長對這樣的日本的做法有沒有一些想法或者是想要做哪一部分的一些處理"},{"start":18535.131,"end":18551.617,"text":"他三思十當然可以公錯不過兩國的法治環境沒有很完全一樣即使是這樣子我相信各國的做法都是相對類似的譬如說有關於上下班時間的相對彈性化在我們性別工作平等法已經有一些範定"},{"start":18552.657,"end":18575.567,"text":"那或者是說遠距辦公其實勞動部也推出了相關的指引在鼓勵雇主和勞工可以來適用這個部分尤其在COVID之後確實也是一個趨勢那至於托兒或者是照相關的措施這邊在我們的法律上也是要求一定層級以上的雇主需要去"},{"start":18576.267,"end":18599.725,"text":"去提供相應的措施的所以有關於日本的相關的法制我們會參考委員的建議去實際的蒐集案了解那在我們整體的相應的評估的部分再來做一些考量看什麼樣子可以讓我們的工作的家庭裡面父母親在育兒方面可以得到更多的支持和照顧"},{"start":18601.085,"end":18626.731,"text":"也請勞動部能夠研議這個日本知識修法相關的制度適合我國參考實施的部分能夠研議給我們一份報告也希望三個月能夠完成最後一個比較相關的性工法公布資料應該可以更明確的部分我們知道性別工作平等法在促進工作平等措施的立法結構上面有這三條"},{"start":18627.911,"end":18649.748,"text":"比較大家可以參考就是性供法第14條到第20條裡面就是針對生理假、暈、流停假或者是家庭照顧假、產假、陪產假等等做一個相關的規定那第21條就是勞工在請求這前面7條不得拒絕或不利益的對待那如果在"},{"start":18651.549,"end":18676.927,"text":"違反到21條的話 那在新公法第38條就會有處罰2到30萬那同時要公布這些違法的僱主的資料這是我們可以看到的相關的這個立法架構跟結構那可是我們在勞動部目前的公布的網站上面呢會根據不同的縣市他們所公布出來的資料 其實是不是那麼樣的統一"},{"start":18678.368,"end":18694.629,"text":"原來有一些縣市就會根據前面第14條到24條他們違反了哪一些的內容那做了什麼樣的懲處公布相對仔細那有一些縣市呢他就是針對於說他違反了第21條所以用38條來處分"},{"start":18696.551,"end":18719.126,"text":"結果我們在做相關的這些處理的內容的時候事實上是會有造成的落差基本上我們要在統計或者是想要掌握狀況那對民眾來講這個資料的透明度也相對是不夠完整所以可不可以麻煩部理能夠針對如何去公告公布能夠跟地方主管機關"},{"start":18720.347,"end":18742.316,"text":"一起來討論把它一個比較明確的一個做法讓大家都可以有所了解有所掌握好謝謝委員的指教因為相關的法令對違反的情節要求行政部門要予以公佈上網公開其實落實法尊的一個重要的環節那我們勞動部跟地方政府"},{"start":18742.996,"end":18772.055,"text":"過去在這一邊包括其他相關的法令的規範我們都有持續在檢討也在其一相應的標準包括上網的時間然後應該上網的內容和方式那委員所提到的這部分我們一方面已經請我們的業管單位跟該管的地方政府在做協調另外一方面我們也會再重新整個去審視我們的上網公告的相應的部分有沒有可以再進一步檢討精進還有跟地方政府再把那個基準"},{"start":18772.515,"end":18777.082,"text":"化的更奇異的部分謝謝委員的指教好那就請市長繼續努力謝謝王振旭委員的發言"},{"start":18800.694,"end":18805.256,"text":"好 那下一位我們請趙偉 盧趙偉發言謝謝主席 有請陳次長及園民會我們盧處長請陳次長還有盧委好對 盧處長謝謝"},{"start":18828.674,"end":18846.846,"text":"我們原住民的工作類型真的是比較辛苦大家都是從事營造業一些非典型勞動的比例比較高所以都是暴露在高風險低保障的勞動環境當中所以我們本席在很多次的一個諮詢裡面都有提到這些我的請求謝謝我們"},{"start":18849.708,"end":18870.461,"text":"我們勞動部有提供一些資料我們先看一下就是我們的死亡死亡值債的部分在13年到14年10月有34件然後因為工地承攬停工的這個案件大概有62件那我想知道的是說我們一直在要確保我們的權益然後希望能夠去督促那些比較"},{"start":18871.581,"end":18888.511,"text":"辛苦的這些非典型勞動加保的這些我們的基層勞工我想知道到目前為止我們的為了要催保跟查核我們到底推動哪些政策跟執行的措施現在執行的成效又是什麼"},{"start":18889.886,"end":18904.351,"text":"第一件事情跟委員報告就是說我們的原住民朋友主要他的勞參率其實比國人還高我要感謝原住民朋友的協助那他主要最大的兩個工作場域一個是製造業一個是服務業"},{"start":18905.071,"end":18925.976,"text":"製造業的部分因為製造業的工作屬性在過往的情況確實他的職災的發生率會偏高那這部分勞動部大概會採取幾個措施一個部分是我們對於職災發生的原因會去加強職安位的相關的的加強的相關的措施那第二個部分是有關於"},{"start":18927.396,"end":18940.184,"text":"營造業過往有一些多層承攬或者是分包的狀況我們在這一次承蒙大院的協助我們在職安法的修法也把這一塊做了一個起義的處理第三個部分是有關萬一不幸發生職業災害我們其實在勞工職業災害保險及保護法會有相應的保障那這邊我們一方面會透過相應"},{"start":18951.71,"end":18972.471,"text":"官的宣導去鼓勵大家去催促強制納保那另外萬一有一時半刻沒有辦法是長時間的僱用我們也有減便的加保措施那如果退一萬步言真的不幸發生了在植栽保法裡面也有即使沒有納保我們還是有一些基本的保障"},{"start":18973.352,"end":18994.074,"text":"對原住民朋友們的保護的部分我們會來持續加強那如果有發生離災不幸離災的狀況也會透過地方的個案的造福的同仁來提供必要的支持不知道原民會有沒有特別去掌握被典型勞動者的那些加保制度我們目前實際使用的人數有多少"},{"start":18995.035,"end":19009.168,"text":"跟委員報告一下那我們在107年開始就跟勞動部有合作有針對那些未納保的部分來去做相關的處理從107年當時的無勞保人數大概是六萬三千多人113年已經減低到四萬兩千人"},{"start":19010.209,"end":19029.544,"text":"也是說我們的那個有勞保的人數從73.98到83.478左右那這個也是要謝謝我們勞動部就針對那些五人以上五勞保公司那部分有加強查核那有我們部分呢也配合也做針對四人以下五一定雇主的部分來去做一個宣導以上"},{"start":19033.209,"end":19041.241,"text":"那我想知道說有沒有裁法或者是說你覺得這個裁法的比例有沒有掌握裁法比例可能勞動部這邊"},{"start":19044.815,"end":19067.627,"text":"這邊當然如果只要有工作就應該要加保這是僱主應該承擔的責任那如果僱主沒有加保我們一方面會提供勞工的職災勞工保護法會提供勞工必要的給付同時也會裁罰僱主他應該支付的相應的費用除了罰完之外本來他應該透過保險來給付的這部分我們也會請僱主來負擔"},{"start":19069.568,"end":19086.982,"text":"相應的部分我們其實都有在一些處理我是不是請我們市長可以就數據的部分跟你們做一個說明跟委員報告就是我們從災保法是111年5月1號開始實施我們對沒有加保的失業單位我們會裁罰2萬到10萬那大概從那個時候到"},{"start":19091.584,"end":19107.17,"text":"到115年的1月為止一共有10,073件那麼多件這個是全體不是原民原民的部分我是希望有一些數據給我們原民的部分再細分出來給我們知道"},{"start":19107.89,"end":19125.969,"text":"我再看看勞保局能不能把它分開我知道在加重裁法跟嚴格查核這個機制是對當然是全國通用不過我是覺得如果說像我們針對我們原住民的企業可能都是在起步的階段或者是說他確實沒有一些專業的人力來幫他做這些比如說"},{"start":19126.65,"end":19141.657,"text":"他缺乏法務跟行政的一些量能他缺乏風險辨識的一些專業能力也就是說可能雇主也不知道哪裡危險也還有一些就是他買不起房付或者是外部的這些配備也就是說他缺乏財務的彈性跟資源"},{"start":19142.657,"end":19158.105,"text":"所以雖然我們有加重裁罰跟嚴格查核可是就僱主的部分我覺得還是要輔導我們原住民的這些危險的企業者因為本來就做這些事情本來就已經很辛苦可是他們沒有這方面的專業可以加以輔導嗎"},{"start":19159.15,"end":19184.253,"text":"是這邊沒有問題謝謝委員分成兩個部分來看第一個部分是只要有工作就應該參加職災保險那這部分也有簡便的加保方式可以去做處理那第二個部分是有關於降災防災減災的部分這部分就是有關於在營造業的現場如何避免他職場安全的部分受到危害那主要以前大部分都會"},{"start":19184.733,"end":19198.624,"text":"碰到的是高空墜落諸如此類的相應的災害那這部分我們洪部長有請治安署針對營造業的防災減災的部分去推動相應的專案那也跟很多的"},{"start":19200.926,"end":19225.256,"text":"工協會在營造夥伴關係會去持續的去推廣OK 那希望我再看職場減災這個部分我覺得原鄉也沒有被特別拉出來看所以它如果它在全國的一個平均數裡面就看不出它的嚴重性了所以這個職場減災的部分我希望有個原住民的KPI就是說你原鄉跟原民的企業覆蓋率是多少你們宣導是怎麼做的我覺得應該是還是要具體一點讓我們知道"},{"start":19228.078,"end":19251.44,"text":"好謝謝這部分我們會分成兩個部分來做第一個部分就是說原民朋友如果在一般的企業裡面我們會透過整個職安位的角度透過全企業的方式來宣導那第二個如果是原鄉或者是原民事業單位比較特殊的情況我們也跟原民會來請教一起來對針對這部分來做出"},{"start":19252.14,"end":19278.915,"text":"對 因為現在的裁法都很高比如300萬到450萬也就是說隱匿這些那其實就我們的這個我剛才說的微型創業這些他們根本就沒有能力去負擔這些那所以我就說既然有這麼高的裁法應該有相當程度的一個所謂的輔導跟我們剛才所說的所謂的KPI 減災KPI最後就是針對我們之前有講到促進人主民主就業獎勵計畫這個部分"},{"start":19280.916,"end":19306.417,"text":"那可能工作到一定的時間可能就獎勵原住民一些他的獎勵可是只有獎勵勞工可是沒有獎勵雇主所以我們之前在12年的6月像會議上面勞動部就代替原住民提案說原民會提案說要補助失業單位促進原住民主就業計畫希望能夠補助雇主的負擔勞保及救保的費用的50%我不知道現在這個執行的狀況如何"},{"start":19308.92,"end":19335.062,"text":"先跟委員報告那有關就針對原住民促進就業獎勵的計劃部分其實我們是跨部會合作那我們就針對原住民的個人的部分如果是你的薪資超過三而且穩定工作三個月大概就會有三千到一萬左右的不同等級的薪資來去做獎勵但是雇主的部分有現有勞動部的計劃就已經有了所以我們這個部分是跨部會有在合作所以現有的就是50%嗎"},{"start":19337.765,"end":19356.224,"text":"但是補助的那一塊那個還在研議中所以已經從12年到現在已經三年了還在研議所以我們現在就是用促進就會獎勵計畫這個部分先做我們可以做的部分那我希望那勞動部主責嗎還是你們主責"},{"start":19357.524,"end":19377.431,"text":"我們研究個人的部分我們這邊會來處理但是我們也會用跨部而且我們每半夜也都跟勞動部做一次的一個研究業方面的一個平台的一個聯絡會議我是希望一個具體的一個財務評估適用條件跟上路的時程不然我們的雇主其實也是很辛苦可以嗎好謝謝"},{"start":19379.832,"end":19404.818,"text":"最後一個問題是關於那個我們因為大家都講到那個時候所以我就講我們75歲那個免巴士量表的部分那還是勤務服部還有勞動部還有我們運營會因為我之前找過分別找過各單位來談結果大家都互相貼來貼去我很想知道說到底這個75歲免巴士量表是哪一個單位要主責"},{"start":19407.445,"end":19433.208,"text":"跟委員報告大院在修正就業保險就業服務法的時候80歲以上是免巴士量所以我們當時跟衛務部在整個的相應的措施裡面部會去協調合作去讓他順利的實施也沒有排擠到重症家庭的需求至於委員所提到說原住民朋友的部分是不是75歲以上"},{"start":19434.469,"end":19455.077,"text":"就可以免巴士量表跟文包在現目前的狀況底下原住民朋友在70歲75歲到80歲這部分其實他有相關如果萬一不幸有失能情況相關的照顧其實現在絕大部分都已經可以走到多元免評了唯一如果說如果說他沒有到"},{"start":19456.477,"end":19476.918,"text":"沒有達到失能的狀況而要去放寬免巴士量表的話那這部分恐怕現階段還需要再做審慎的討論但是我要強調說原住民朋友在70歲以上如果他有失能的狀況需要協助照顧在現階段都已經多元免評絕大部分在多元免評就可以得到協助"},{"start":19477.498,"end":19492.004,"text":"那好那我知道這個就是說多元免貧可能協助大部分可是我是希望羅處長這邊園民會能不能掌握75歲的長者我們原住民的確實有這個需求的可不可以在近期之內調查出來或者是說你們覺得"},{"start":19493.064,"end":19520.374,"text":"有沒有一個替代比如說今天做不到這些過度的配套是不是有衛生所或者巡迴醫療或者是長照評估就可以拿到這些他應該要有的這個量表而不是要又要派車去帶長者去醫院然後再去做一個巴車因為現在他說還沒有一個可行方案嘛75歲以上免巴車量表他還是要巴車量表嘛萬一他需要這個的話能不能有地區的也就是衛生所跟我們在地的診所就可以不然"},{"start":19521.334,"end":19549.266,"text":"那個舟車勞頓真的問了一張紙很辛苦有那個衛福部有先公告的一個就是在針對那個多元的那個評估的方式這個已經有相關的有相關規定出來了那75歲以上的長者確實需要的我覺得也可以去掌握數據我們也是歡迎人看OK好謝謝好謝謝謝映映召委的發言也謝謝各位官員的答詢"},{"start":19579.053,"end":19600.401,"text":"現在請鄭天才委員質詢主席 各位委員有請勞動部還有延民會請城市長 請羅副處長鄭委員好"},{"start":19608.02,"end":19619.849,"text":"這個根據113年度原住民族就業狀況調查這個原住民在營建工程業佔了18.24%營造業14.26%總共就是三十幾32.50%所以也就是說我們有三分之一的就業是在這個營建跟製造業"},{"start":19637.95,"end":19638.651,"text":"那根據就說剛剛已經講過了"},{"start":19641.547,"end":19651.233,"text":"好 我們看看我們這個衛福部的一個勞動部勞動部的一個這個2025年跟2024年重大職災死亡人數這個統計雖然2025比2024少了但是少的還是很有限總共在2025年還是有251件的"},{"start":19670.941,"end":19692.117,"text":"這個重大之災的一個死亡人數當然這個受傷的還沒有在裡面所以要請這個那個勞動部針對這個2025年了2025年原住民到底多少我們先分兩個先分兩個部分中華民國的國民"},{"start":19697.711,"end":19712.603,"text":"多少然後外籍勞工多少分兩個部分然後再從中華民國國民裡面原住民占多少的人數這個在2025年的部分現在有數據了嗎"},{"start":19715.539,"end":19742.749,"text":"根文報告我現在手邊的數字是我們在原住民勞工朋友們的部分是2025年嗎2025年的部分直災死亡的件數有10人然後他的原住民的直災千人率是3.267死亡千人率是0.044那比113年略有下降但是無論如何我們都不樂見任何直災的發生"},{"start":19746.532,"end":19762.509,"text":"這個統計的時候在後面再補充之後包含受傷的包含受傷的部分這樣的話就會更完整那我們看這個報告裡面有勞動部的報告裡面特別提到"},{"start":19764.911,"end":19790.12,"text":"這個114年營造業死亡人數105人佔42%蠻高的然後相關的這個墜落致死亡高達67%而且是民間工程的比例超過7成而且死亡人數還致造業死亡人數還增加了增加了7人共63人所以這個都是需要繼續去加強防範"},{"start":19795.393,"end":19815.192,"text":"這個早期沒有話說但是現在相關的技術、科技各方面工程的那個技術或是那個都一直很先進的結果還是一樣這麼多這個都是需要去加強去檢討"},{"start":19818.474,"end":19831.321,"text":"在營造業的特性時常比較容易有分包轉包或者是協同公進的相應部分這部分謝謝大院的支持我們在職安法這一次的修正也把這部分列為一個重點"},{"start":19832.581,"end":19858.27,"text":"會去加強相應的施工的指揮協調還有相應的處理那至於製造業的部分可能跟他的不同的工作製程會有一定的關聯我們治安署會分析每一個個案的相關案件的成因然後針對相應的類型去對治安位的部分如何去降災防災減災的部分再跟相關的工學會持續去做密切的合作"},{"start":19859.424,"end":19888.718,"text":"剛剛你有提到 確實是一個問題會造成這些質災的給付或是包括它有投保的比如說營造業它有投保的保險公司的認定就很多因為我們都會發生災害的會發生質災的都是第一線的工人而這些第一線的工人絕大部分都不是"},{"start":19890.949,"end":19913.838,"text":"第一線的承包商的功能以前他缺乏相關職安位的安全衛生的督導和協調都是大包、中包、小包來公投再勞工所以這個都是一個需要加強的部分我們看延命會的報告"},{"start":19915.639,"end":19925.666,"text":"這裡面提到這個確實是原住民的植栽的人數確實是比較高了我們看這個嚴明會的報告裡面提到"},{"start":19927.348,"end":19943.323,"text":"這個原住民族工作近年收入近年逐漸成長108年到起原住民族有酬就業者每人每月主要工作平均收入突破3萬元且逐年增加至113年已達3萬5千"},{"start":19948.01,"end":19974.081,"text":"304年水準這個處長是這個數字你認為很好嗎是有改善但是還不夠我們都還有那個改善的空間我覺得還有很多努力的空間這個紀理勞工的平均薪資最起碼差一萬塊是的你看台灣勞工的薪資狀況"},{"start":19977.075,"end":20001.865,"text":"2024年基本工資兩萬七千四百多然後這個每人每月經常性薪資平均是四萬六四萬六千四百五十這是2024年2025年基本工資兩萬八千多所以我們這個三萬出頭只是比基本工資多一點點而已如果要跟這個"},{"start":20003.842,"end":20020.309,"text":"這個平均勞工的平均薪資2025年是四萬七千七百零九少了一萬多了所以這個部分都是這不僅是人民會勞動部都是要去加強怎麼樣能夠"},{"start":20022.192,"end":20047.538,"text":"提升我們的事實上都是勞力的跟委員報告一下因為我們現在新一起的原住民住金九月方案當中已經有邀請六七個部會包含勞動部在內那我們過去都是從就業優先現在是轉為薪資提升那剛剛委員在講的那個差一萬塊的那個差距其實我們都有在掌握主要問題就是我們都是"},{"start":20049.448,"end":20070.386,"text":"第一包第二包第三包然後公投下面的對就是這樣就結構然後有有很多都沒有勞勞保啊對所以問題重重所以真的是要請勞動部跟園林會要加油好好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝曾天才委員的諮詢接下來請吳立華委員諮詢"},{"start":20084.865,"end":20105.611,"text":"謝謝主席 有請勞動部 袁銘慧請楊次長 羅處長吳委員好次長好其實今天特別謝謝召委安排來關心我們原住民的勞工的勞動條件其實很多都是老生常談"},{"start":20107.422,"end":20132.724,"text":"講到薪資低或者是職災的比率高這都是老生常談那我其實是想要表達因為我來到立法院六年我常常面對我們原住民的勞工跟我講一件事他們會跟我說可不可以去處理一下移工的問題但是我們台灣確實是缺工"},{"start":20134.628,"end":20158.23,"text":"所以我們有這樣的一個移工的政策可是很感慨的就是偏偏我們台灣缺工的前五大反而剛好恰巧就是原住民投入行業的前五大所以我們可以說原住民對台灣是非常有貢獻的"},{"start":20160.343,"end":20169.982,"text":"當我們看到今年1月美國的攀岩家攀登101大樓可是101大樓是原住民勞工蓋的"},{"start":20171.772,"end":20194.3,"text":"所以在這樣的一個基層去從事這樣的一個勞動就業照理說我們是政府的寶很值得政府好好的來幫忙去解決原住民所面對的困境可是我就是不理解我以過去原住民勞工來講民國80年的時候30多年前"},{"start":20199.175,"end":20214.705,"text":"他們去做工鐵工綁鐵一天是可以拿到3000甚至工頭可以拿到5000可是35年過去怎麼會變成這樣所以他們就一直怪罪移工因為移工進來了之後"},{"start":20218.976,"end":20239.393,"text":"其實最大的問題癥結點像其實我們去現在很多國家日本我們也看到他們缺工的情形很嚴重那也用了很多的移工進來現在到日本我們看到的很多都是國外的從事他們的勞力工作可是台灣不一樣啊"},{"start":20241.021,"end":20255.267,"text":"我們要理解的是因為癥結點在於我們原住民的這些就業的職業求職的意向跟移工高度重疊"},{"start":20257.213,"end":20272.392,"text":"那移工他賺到這些錢他回到他的國家非常的好用可以蓋房子可以買土地可是我們卻倒退到只配得基本工資"},{"start":20273.905,"end":20292.287,"text":"我們沒有辦法在台灣過上跟這些移工回國一樣好的生活所以我想這個部分包括現在的移工也非常多的逃逸到我們的原鄉像那些種茶的種咖啡的種高麗菜的"},{"start":20293.376,"end":20316.495,"text":"但是我們好像沒有辦法跟他們競爭所以在這個部分我就是比較想要了解一下我是希望勞動部跟我們的園民會針對目前原住民勞工這種窮忙又窮又忙的這種困境我不知道說到底有沒有提出移工開放對原住民就業衝擊的評估報告勞動部有沒有"},{"start":20320.456,"end":20334.837,"text":"跟委員報告以營造業來說其實當時營造業在處理移工開放的議題的時候我們其實跟原民會還有行政相關部會都很關切對原住民朋友的就業的影響"},{"start":20335.678,"end":20361.905,"text":"那後來開放主要是基於幾個考量第一個是說因為其實台灣的人口結構確實變化了那營造業真的就是缺人那導致了非法的失聯移工大量的湧入營造業那湧入營造業會產生兩個很複雜的現象第一個就是他的職場安全一定會有很大的問題那這會連帶影響到包括我們的勞工朋友原住民朋友在職場安全的部分"},{"start":20362.105,"end":20376.698,"text":"那第二部分就是說因為它是非法工作所以僱主always都用cost down的角度在做理解那某種程度上也會變相的去在勞動條件上面對我們其他的包括原住民朋友在內是不利的所以回過頭來我們在營造業這一邊的邏輯上是我們"},{"start":20380.741,"end":20405.296,"text":"適度的去引進合法的移工然後讓他的經過一些適當的訓練讓他的職場安全衛生可以獲得確保讓他在相關的薪資條件上有一個基本的門檻那至於說原住民朋友在相應的這部分營造業也好或者服務業也好相對的勞動條件的部分我們跟原住民會來人民會會一起來看看如何來"},{"start":20405.776,"end":20432.842,"text":"因為時間的關係我在這邊本席就是要求我希望勞動部跟原民會因為移工開放對原住民的就業衝擊他到底是我們的一個想像他還是真實的發生存在那到底要怎麼樣去保障我們國人的薪資原住民的這些勞工的薪資防護機制我希望可以提出一個報告可以嗎"},{"start":20434.886,"end":20459.98,"text":"一個月我是希望那個報告是策進作為喔包括園民會這個地方怎麼樣去照顧到保障原住民的勞工薪資如果他就跟移工拿的一樣人家回去很好過我們永遠就在底層我們是全國平均薪資的一半"},{"start":20461.769,"end":20487.286,"text":"我們永遠就生活在底層有多少人在貧窮線下所以這個部分其實對我們尤其是我要特別強調原住民沒有少子化的問題只有平均餘命短少的問題我們現在是對台灣很有貢獻我們的人口已經來到2.7%台灣原住民對台灣這個國家是很有貢獻的"},{"start":20488.888,"end":20508.571,"text":"但是我們竟然有這種薪資低勞動條件不佳然後呢教育高等教育我們的出債學率跟一般的大學生竟然落差30%然後我們的平均餘命又低我想這個都是整個告訴政府"},{"start":20509.452,"end":20515.894,"text":"我們沒有照顧好原住民我想這個部分就麻煩勞動部跟園民會可不可以就薪資的防護機制保護這一塊那移工的衝擊影響然後我們怎麼策進我們的薪資的保護提升那我希望一個月可以給我這樣的報告可以嗎"},{"start":20528.457,"end":20551.52,"text":"跟委員報告就是有關於植栽的減栽或者是強化技能修業輔導這部分我們本來就一直持續關注一個月內提出沒有對我是希望怎麼樣讓原住民的薪資可以增加跟移工有差異化薪資的部分如果去做提升然後如何去有一個衝擊評估這部分就需要比較多的"},{"start":20551.88,"end":20576.918,"text":"因為我們現在原住民就是被迫嘛你不願意跟移工拿一樣的薪資我也不想要你嘛關於這一塊有關於衝擊影響評估或針對原民朋友具體的情況去提出一個日本那些國家是沒有那麼多原住民啊台灣不一樣欸台灣很多原住民欸一個月可能會有一些困難是不是再給我們多一點的時間我們跟人民會可以一起兩個月三個月都可以"},{"start":20577.739,"end":20592.327,"text":"委員是不是我再補充一下那有關剛剛委員提到的一些影響評估那個外籍工的部分我們會拉到原住民健康狀況調查裡面那至於說在委員提到的二期計劃草案當中我們放說外籍"},{"start":20592.887,"end":20616.563,"text":"移工對於原住民的就業的一些影響的一些相關因應措施我們也會把這個計畫當中放進來那也有把剛剛委員講到的薪資保障的部分也會放到二期計畫來我們這個已經在3月20的時候由我們副主委召集六七個部會來去做一個相關計畫的因應以上好 謝謝次長 謝謝處長 謝謝主席"},{"start":20619.653,"end":20620.335,"text":"好 謝謝我們陳市長及羅處長現在請"},{"start":20628.243,"end":20649.473,"text":"王宏威委員 王宏威不在我們接著請徐欣盈委員 徐欣盈委員 徐欣盈不在我們接著請岳元之委員 岳元之委員 岳元之委員不在我們接著請鄭振淺委員 鄭振淺委員 鄭振淺委員不在我們接著請林倩琦委員"},{"start":20660.691,"end":20681.262,"text":"好 謝謝文主席盧昭偉接下來本席這邊的一個質詢先請衛福部的次長還有我們現在勞動部也是次長陳次長陳次長在然後跟園民會的代表盧處長"},{"start":20683.363,"end":20691.716,"text":"好 那本席第一個部分先針對這個原住民健康不平等跟公安的問題來請幾個部會來做一個討論那麼根據內政部的統計花蓮縣原住民的人口達到了94924人"},{"start":20698.726,"end":20719.224,"text":"那麼佔全國原住民大概15%以上那也佔花蓮縣人口的三成以上那麼也算是全國非常具有代表性的原住民族的這個聚集區那人口基本上應該是成長的但是健康狀況沒有同步的改善那麼113年呢整個花蓮縣原住民標準化的死亡率達每10萬人1170.8"},{"start":20721.886,"end":20748.244,"text":"那麼也高於這個所有標準化的750.3那甚至全國排名的也是第二那僅次於本席的這個故鄉台東那代表這中間原住民族的健康不平等的問題是事實存在的而且花東地區呈現高度集中跟結構性的一個特徵那本席關注的這個部分是死因跟事故傷害的問題那看起來在這個區塊特別嚴重"},{"start":20750.606,"end":20771.662,"text":"那麼整個花蓮縣事故的死亡當中的死亡率也偏高那麼顯示原住民在工作跟生活的環境當中承擔不成比例的風險所以本席這邊先就叫勞動部那麼原住民在從事高風險工作的比例比較高那目前針對原住民族的一個職業安全的預防機制"},{"start":20772.082,"end":20786.939,"text":"跟勞檢機制那是不是有針對族群的特性跟產業的分布來進行調整還是仍然以一般勞工來看待處理那是不是請勞動部這邊先回應我先跟委員做報告等一下再請我們子安署林署長做補充第一件事"},{"start":20787.159,"end":20811.175,"text":"就是說原住民朋友主要的集中的工作場域大概就是營造業製造業跟服務業那近年來就是服務業是大宗但是看起來相應的植栽的發生事故率還有致死率最高的其實還是在營造業那營造業因為它的產業特性對這本席剛才有聽到幾位原住民的委員其實有提到這個區塊"},{"start":20812.076,"end":20839.986,"text":"所以我跟委員報告當然我們做了幾件事第一個就是謝謝大院的支持我們在職安法修法的時候針對這樣一個多重轉包或分包如何去建立其他職安位的相關的督考底細我們做了處理那第二部分是我們也針對原鄉的部分有原民的巡迴教室我們有在做相應的職業安全衛生甚至於勞保各方面的宣導"},{"start":20840.786,"end":20858.741,"text":"那第三個部分我們對營造業也相對的有一些減災的計畫在執行那我想這是一般性的做法你們都有那對於原住民你們是以一般勞工來看待呢還是有族群的一個分布跟族群的特性跟產業的分布再去做一個更細部的處理呢"},{"start":20860.082,"end":20885.91,"text":"當然剛才跟回答鄭天才文也有同樣的質詢嘛就有關一般的營造業的部分我們確實是整個我們不要只談營造業啦剛才本席有談到原鄉原鄉的這部分有關原鄉產業的特性相應的部分那這部分我們會跟原民會一起來協助如果這需要有相應的方案來處理我們會請治安署"},{"start":20888.391,"end":20904.908,"text":"本席希望這邊再更細緻一點啦剛才本席其實幾位原住民的委員在跟你們詢答的時候其實也有注意到這個區塊你們常常當然是本席都這個問題就是說你們是把它當一般勞工或者是整體性大概一致性的這樣一個看"},{"start":20905.989,"end":20923.762,"text":"看法可是剛才本席一進來其實就有先提到了區域的特殊性然後當然這個部分還會關係到產業的特性其實還有很多更細部的一個原因那本席這邊期待是說你們可以對細部的原因有更多的一個了解因為畢竟職災或勞工的區塊你們掌握都是相對比較高的"},{"start":20924.502,"end":20948.439,"text":"好 那麼當然待會兒我還可能再請你們做一個補充那接下來衛福部那本席在針對這個部分想要了解一下那我們整個原住民族的標準化的死亡率偏高那麼目前有沒有針對花東地區可以提出比較專案型的健康介入的一個措施那包括醫療的可請性跟事故以後的醫療資源配置那有沒有區域性的強化策略"},{"start":20949.079,"end":20977.191,"text":"OK 好 包委我們這邊還主要大概幾個部分一個當然就是說我們有一個就是花東基金那邊特別是有關於整個花東這邊的一個整個相關醫療量能的一個提高對本席這邊談到的醫療可靜性有沒有比較具體的一個措施醫療的可靜性跟事故以後的醫療資源的配置包委我們這邊大概幾個部分就是遠距醫療還有其實最重要事實上是醫事人力的一個提高"},{"start":20979.11,"end":20979.977,"text":"對沒錯我這邊是不是請我們我們副市長來跟"},{"start":20982.742,"end":21010.49,"text":"好 各位報告 那目前針對尤其是花東地區我們對衛生所我們有專科援軍醫療的一個機制現在幾乎每個衛生所都已經有設置了這是第一個 第二個我們對在地的醫事人力培育一直都有也就是說援助民屬於援助民的部分我們在公費的培育我們有這個公費的制度我們剛才講的這些東西我想一致性的一個推動"},{"start":21011.11,"end":21034.209,"text":"都有 但是本席要知道的是說 針對這個區域那醫療可進行的一個分佈那另外一個部分就是事後醫療的一個資源配置針對區域性的一個強化策略你們是不是有比較具體的一個措施那因為時間關係 我是不是也請你們會後做一個提供我簡單說一下就是說一樣花東 花蓮跟台東還是不一樣就是像危險區 台東其實主要應該還是靠衛生所"},{"start":21037.852,"end":21053.165,"text":"花蓮那邊因為它有一個花池它有醫學中心是以大代小但是台東是非常不一樣的16個衛生所裡面我跟委員報告我們現在我也剛從台東回來上禮拜其實我去那邊考察其實最重要事實上是整個台東那邊的衛生所這邊我們會提出一個新的計畫"},{"start":21054.666,"end":21070.217,"text":"對 其實期待的就是這樣其實感謝你至少知道花蓮跟台東不一樣那我也希望大家都知道宜蘭 花蓮 台東很不一樣所以在許多政策上大家都會把它全部當東部可是如果當緯度一分或者是區域一分其實這樣差異還是很大的"},{"start":21071.578,"end":21095.415,"text":"它的整個總共是154公里從成功到南邊大武那邊我覺得整個區域的分佈包括整個北部靠近成功還有台東市還有大武這邊南回這邊我覺得應該都有一些因地制宜不同的策略這邊我跟委員報告其實最主要是衛生所衛生所這邊我們的整個量能我覺得應該是最重要的一個重點"},{"start":21096.623,"end":21124.579,"text":"謝謝你們知道這樣一個問題所以本席比較期待看到是區域性的一個針對性的強化策略好那最後針對這個部分要請教三個部會那目前原住民的健康就業跟生活風險的這個問題其實分在不同的單位各自推動也缺乏整合那本席認為我們需要原住民族的健康專責機關那原住民的健康問題不是只有醫療的問題還包括工作型態交通環境文化差異跟生活條件"},{"start":21125.8,"end":21154.221,"text":"那這個部分不知道各部會是不是支持來推動設置原住民族健康專責機關作為跨部會整合的平台三個部會是不是可以給本期一個回應跟委員報告就是我們跟衛福部還有原民會對原住民朋友各方面其實都有跨部會在協助當中至於說如何把這個機制做得更smooth更到位或者是推動的更部分這個部分我們也許可以再收集大家的意見來做考慮"},{"start":21154.881,"end":21176.822,"text":"那可能再更具體的 其實本席先前有提到就是在這個衛福部先前在討論某一些署的一個設置原住民的平均移民其實在現階段還是相較於一般來講有一個階段性的問題所以事實上在這個原住民的健康署的一個"},{"start":21177.983,"end":21193.512,"text":"這個方向是不是可以請你們考量跟討論看看好不好就是針對原住民健康照護的這個部分好嗎好那也請大家支持一下至少原住民現在平均一例我們希望能夠稍微及時地趕上好嗎"},{"start":21194.392,"end":21198.694,"text":"好 謝謝那最後 對不起那各部會請回出了這個園民會園民會我這邊可能做一個提醒那我現在是針對我們在整個家庭財富分配的這個部分要提醒你們注意一下那整個主計處最近的一個公告那整個家庭財富分配的統計那貧富差距也越來越大"},{"start":21214.399,"end":21228.41,"text":"這個問題其實已經很久了但是目前的數據已經從16.8的一個差距擴大到66.9已經算是全國性的問題但是我們通常全國性的問題在原住民的社群裡面就會更加的劇烈"},{"start":21229.891,"end":21234.972,"text":"所以原民會你們在110年的經濟狀況調查原住民的貧富差距也越來越大但是都會區跟原鄉也是差距很大這雖然是當然只是說擴大也比較嚴重像在都會區平均大概96萬5000元但是山地鄉跟平地鄉目前大概差不多是74跟73萬差距很明顯比過去也是擴大很多"},{"start":21256.016,"end":21282.89,"text":"那所以整個資源跟機會的一個分配集中在特定的區域跟族群那變成原住民族內部也有一些新的不平等所以我想要請教一下那針對都會區跟園鄉之間收入的一個差距那園民會是不是有區域均衡的一個政策以免相關的這個資源過度集中在都會那第二個部分是針對原住民族內部貧富差距擴大的問題你們是不是有一個跨部會的整合的策略"},{"start":21283.53,"end":21301.252,"text":"那怎麼來結合產業發展教育培力跟就業的機會從結構面上來進行改善那這個部分 余明慧有沒有比較具體的一些作為好 跟委員報告那剛剛委員提到應該是不但是跨部會也是跨處事的問題我們就從就業教育跟經濟產業"},{"start":21302.453,"end":21318.039,"text":"層面來講我們都是因主因地制宜來去推動相關計劃那在社會福利處的部分就促進就業方案當中也顧及到現在我們都縣地區有已經近60%以上的人口那在"},{"start":21319.424,"end":21339.543,"text":"京巴處的一些產業四年計畫當中也有針對一些我們都議員跟一些相關屏幕差距的部分來去做那所以我們也希望在我們的相關計畫當中可以去把那個屏幕差距縮短然後也把薪資可以縮短目前是有比較具體的嗎還是你們都有已經預設到這個問題我們都有相關的一個計畫"},{"start":21343.186,"end":21371.685,"text":"教育方面因為剛剛有提到一些教育要去做一個因為有30%的一個初再選那個錯學率我們也希望針對這部分來去做處理那總歸來講我們其實在顏名會跟部會當中都是有蠻多的一個跨部會的一個平臺包含是剛剛健康方面有健康政策會那勞動部方面我們有一個就業的一個相關平臺這些也都固定在開會我們也會把一些相關各部會之間跟顏住民有關係的一些相關計畫"},{"start":21373.066,"end":21400.514,"text":"整齊來就是你們已有的會會提供給本席好不好然後本席所談到的這個未來的策進作為那你們有什麼樣一個方向可能也給本席這邊一個回應好那因為最近本席也提到在原住民方面不管是都會或是原鄉的一些教育的一個重點那本席可能會會也請你們能夠在這個部分緊密的做一些溝通好那謝謝那最後是我這邊針對兩個"},{"start":21403.035,"end":21419.738,"text":"還是針對可能我記得剛才那個盧委員在質詢的時候我沒有聽到一些那個部會比較確切的回應因為盧委員這邊他有提到那個促進原住民的就業獎勵那針對這個勞工的部分那園民會這邊有一些作為但是針對雇主的這個就是保險的這個部分的50%目前還在研議那我想請問一下這究竟是哪一個單位在處責是勞動部嗎"},{"start":21433.151,"end":21452.32,"text":"根文報告就我印象所及這部分是之前在談到說原住民朋友的勞工保險那個保費的部分雇主負擔的部分是不是要有一個協助的機制但這個協助的機制目前現階段看起來不太可能從公務機關的預算來處理"},{"start":21454.281,"end":21477.033,"text":"那我記得曾經在相應的保險有稍微談過但是相應的保險也目前在法院上也會有一些困難所以最終在這部分如何來做適度的處理我們可能要跟原民會這邊再來持續的討論就我所知道原民會後來有一些替代方案但是是不是可以符合大家的一個期待我們還要再持續的去溝通"},{"start":21477.873,"end":21493.815,"text":"所以目前也不太確定主責的一個單位吧是你們嗎就是勞動部如果說到最終是要補助雇主相關的勞保或者是相關保險的費用最終如果決定政策要處理會是勞動部要去處理"},{"start":21494.455,"end":21515.435,"text":"但是現階段而言因為因為包括涉及到經費多少如何去做處理然後再怎麼面向去做相應的機制協助那這部分原民會才會是比較專業的單位所以我們在這部分持續都有在一些討論那我們會再持續就這部分再來做一些釐清和瞭解看有沒有一些機會可以來處理"},{"start":21517.009,"end":21533.312,"text":"那就謝謝勞動部那希望未來假設你們主責的話那可能呃或者是你們已有的相關報告在一些困難點那你說適不適合公部門然後怎麼個處理跟一些障礙我想你們應該會有一些記錄那是不是可以提供給本席做一個參考我們回去看"},{"start":21533.652,"end":21559.787,"text":"找一下相應的紀錄那因為這部分對勞動部來講我們比較不會直接單純針對特定的族群或特定的對象去提供相應的措施所以勢必要跟人民會做一些協助那包括發動或者說一些具體的影響評估這方面我們跟人民會會一起來再做一些處理那過往的一些相應的軌跡跟紀錄我們再來整理給委員"},{"start":21561.609,"end":21589.247,"text":"謝謝 那既然這樣本席這邊有兩個東西其實有一個東西也是跟你們一來的時候其實教育部跟你們也是都有一些說對方的一個主責啦那我們這邊提兩個東西一個也是呼籲剛才吳麗華委員這邊提的那麼移工對原住民就影響了一個衝擊那是不是你們最後到底是勞動部或者是園民會這邊可以有一個具體的這個結果截至目前為止這個衝擊"},{"start":21590.288,"end":21617.551,"text":"正負面我想應該是要有一些評估嘛這部分我們跟原民會一起來處理原民的處長有講他們在那個計畫裡面會去做你是在一個大計畫裡面會針對這個部分做一個評估可是本席要知道的是說我們先知道這個問題在哪裡然後你再計畫再施行而不是計畫施行之後你先把這個東西又包在裡面你如果不知道原因那可能原因問題只會越來越大所以本席提到的是一個比較單一的"},{"start":21619.352,"end":21639.166,"text":"究竟移工對原住民的影響有多大或者是正負面我覺得這個部分要先獨立出來我們先了解問題才知道如何解決問題那本席有聽到您剛才講的就是說目前有一個健康相關的計畫你要把它放進去做本席是覺得這樣有點雜本席要先知道那移工目前對原住民的影響在正負面來講"},{"start":21641.027,"end":21659.381,"text":"有哪一些狀態然後最後那個也是勞動部這邊本席一直要不然你們自己去跟教育部說啦可能也跟園民會商量本席不希望園民會到最後就是你們又大雜會因為聽起來你會大雜會的一個處理也就是那麼這麼原住民的這個學生在"},{"start":21660.562,"end":21688.865,"text":"原專班之後呢 那請問到社會上他的一個就業的他就業的形態到底是什麼我覺得目前你們各部會之間沒有沒有把它連結起來就是自己知道可能有一些數額可是我們沒有辦法知道這個系統性的狀態是什麼所以包括原住民的學生畢業以後就在原專班畢業以後那他就業的職場那勞動部你會說教育部做 教育部認為勞動部要做其實本席已經兩年了還沒有拿到相關的資料"},{"start":21690.046,"end":21712.666,"text":"到最後不會又通通都是原民會做吧所以這個你們是不是研議一下我覺得今天有三個問題啦第一個就是有關於這個雇主的這個保險的這個補助那第二個部分呢就是原住民族的這個這個就業移工對原住民族就業的一個影響然後第三個部分是本席兩年都沒有拿到相關資料因為你們各部會都說其他人嘛"},{"start":21713.567,"end":21722.618,"text":"其他的部會所以到現在沒有一個部會真的能夠主責所以就是那原住民的學生在學校學習尤其特別是原專班然後到了這個就業職場上的一個的這個數量還有數額還有比例這是本席"},{"start":21729.266,"end":21744.099,"text":"要知道的這樣我們才能就政策面來說一個檢討嘛好不好那這部分看起來所有單位都會找園民會可是希望園民會你們可不可以知道問題有些時候你們的量能可能沒有辦法去涵蓋到社會的整體面所以剛才那個問題"},{"start":21745.2,"end":21764.086,"text":"先知道問題是什麼那我們再從你們的計畫政策裡面去做處理這樣才不會一堆問題都包進來結果到最後處理的並不是那麼有效度好不好那也請勞動部跟這個相關的單位今天我們也有這個衛福部那針對本席所講的健康的這個問題"},{"start":21765.686,"end":21780.261,"text":"可不可以針對原住民的健康那我們有一個獨立的單位來做處理至少把我們的平均餘命提高到比較接近這一般值那其他就是剛才本席所講的我們先找出問題然後再去處理這個問題的一個應對好嗎"},{"start":21782.912,"end":21806.094,"text":"好 跟委員再補充一下就是我們原住民的就業狀況調查當中其實有把那個外勞的那個影響那個數據是有放進來但是影響評估是沒有影響評估這個東西有點系統性也有一些連接性你們真的是要跟那個勞動部這邊來更比較縝密的一個連結那才會知道比較細節性的一個問題在哪裡好嗎 好的好 謝謝"},{"start":21807.915,"end":21823.062,"text":"好 謝謝我們林倩琪委員質詢接下來請侯孟楷委員侯孟楷委員侯孟楷委員不在我們接著請林柱英委員林柱英委員林柱英委員不在我們接著請楊耀委員質詢"},{"start":21832.169,"end":21855.982,"text":"謝謝主席主席請一下勞動部次長吧請陳次長楊委員好次長好是次長我先前就已經有初步跟洪部長討論過有關降低加油幼童可聘僱外籍幫傭資格限制的鬆綁的問題"},{"start":21859.284,"end":21880.143,"text":"接下來也繼續跟你做相關的探討我們從去年8月份開始實施放寬80歲以上免82票就可以聘僱外籍看護移工即將上路的政策是降低家有幼童也可以聘僱外籍幫傭的資格"},{"start":21882.145,"end":21911.04,"text":"那社會各界大概最有疑慮的就是會不會有移工挑工作的狀況那先請教次長從先前我們放寬80歲以上免80樣表以後看護移工的勞動市場有沒有產生移工挑工作的狀況"},{"start":21912.59,"end":21939.801,"text":"這部分我們當然持續在做密切的注意我們也做一些相應的處理那其實移工最重要的問題是在他的勞動條件如何可以適度的去做提升至於去年80歲以上免評的情況出現那個大院通過之後我們在輕重的部分做了一些分流那重症的家庭基本上面我們都讓他一天之內就可以完成相應的審查一天啊"},{"start":21940.541,"end":21940.963,"text":"國內推介都會一天就完成審查"},{"start":21949.215,"end":21974.851,"text":"我們審查的部分所以我們盡量在這樣一個政策放寬的情況底下不要影響到重症家庭的需求其實當初就是要80歲以上免巴士量表可以聘雇移工大家最大的疑慮就是這個政策也已經上路半年多了也就是說市長現在覺得並沒有"},{"start":21976.932,"end":22005.291,"text":"並沒有產生移工挑工作我們會盡量降低這樣一個可能的發生你們怎麼降低第一個部分當然是我們在重症家庭會優先然後第二個部分就是說在國內如果移工要轉換雇主的時候我們在優先排序上面還是會以重症家庭優先"},{"start":22007.637,"end":22019.784,"text":"那次長你們有沒有掌握到移工到了正正家庭可以工作多久有沒有這個數據"},{"start":22025.955,"end":22050.166,"text":"因為我們要觀察一個政策必須要從多面向去做觀察那剛剛剛好次長就回答到讓我想到這一點我們是不是應該要去我們回過頭再去看相關的資料因為移工基本上面我們在在聘僱是一次三年嘛那到底三年期滿的比例有多少有沒有辦法期滿"},{"start":22051.867,"end":22068.407,"text":"期滿中間如果沒有期滿就轉出是因為看護的長者不幸往生還是有其他的相關的問題我們可以再做資料上的大數案對這個我們假如說要真的很嚴肅面對"},{"start":22069.969,"end":22084.088,"text":"有沒有移工挑工作的狀況產生必須要去研究他未滿三年就離職的實際原因我們才能夠做政策的調整好不好所以我在這邊"},{"start":22086.417,"end":22112.418,"text":"提出一些問題你們假如說在這裡沒有答的很完整我基本上不大會為難你們可是你們回去真的必須要把它當作一個問題來認真面對好不好那現在我還是要提醒勞動部缺工是全球性的所以呢大概全球也就掀起了搶人大戰"},{"start":22114.807,"end":22138.212,"text":"有媒體報導就是日本跟韓國併顧外籍移工其實在相關的配套利多政策的配套部分不管是薪資或者是取得永居的限制都優於台灣那會不會台灣這幾年之所以不缺工是因為台灣這幾年台幣相較於日幣韓元是強勢的"},{"start":22144.223,"end":22163.98,"text":"我大概一個數據提供給次長相對疫情爆發的時候台幣對韓元的漲幅將近三成對日幣的漲幅大概38%可是呢所以也因為台幣強勢所以台灣"},{"start":22169.807,"end":22187.83,"text":"目前在招工比較沒有那麼困難可是匯率是變動的假如匯率有翻轉勞動部有沒有什麼比較長遠一點的政策對於吸引移工的部分"},{"start":22189.147,"end":22210.439,"text":"就移工的部分確實陳主委員所說全世界都在搶人日韓跟我們也都在競逐當中移工會選擇日韓或選擇台灣當然經濟因素是一個其他的因素也都有這部分會整體的來看以台灣目前來看我們對於這樣一個情況大概做幾件事"},{"start":22210.879,"end":22233.402,"text":"第一個就是說持續的提升相關的勞動條件然後第二個部分是去擴大來源國還有持續去優化國內雇主在人才移工招募的一些相應的過程那第三個就是讓外國的移工朋友進來台灣的時候得到比較友善的對待讓他的勞動條件可以比較"},{"start":22234.422,"end":22248.767,"text":"比較可以得到適度的保障那這部分我們持續的跟來源國的政府都還有一直持續在精進相應的作為剛剛次長講的就是有一些必須要雇主配合有一些必須要來源國"},{"start":22250.067,"end":22265.3,"text":"現在現有的勞動力輸出國來做協商那有關擴大來源國的部分這個就是全部主動權都在勞動部這裡你們現在方向是怎麼樣接觸了多少國家"},{"start":22265.72,"end":22293.988,"text":"跟委員報告就是第一個部分我們在原來的移工來源國除了最早的移工之外我們現在在處理跨國技術人力的部分那跟幾個來源國都持續的在洽談當中也得到積極正面的回應那我們在菲律賓已經今年1月份去設了勞工組那目前正在處理相應的事務那第二個就是說去菲律賓設的是不是就是跨國勞動力延展中心"},{"start":22294.868,"end":22311.895,"text":"跨國勞動力延攬中心是在台北這一邊的專案辦公室在那邊我們是在我們駐馬尼拉經濟文化辦事處裡面在我們的外交處裡面專設一個勞工組我們有派駐人員現在在那邊積極協調相應的事情"},{"start":22313.796,"end":22334.911,"text":"一個兩個可是菲律賓本來就是我們的來源國啊我現在講的他那個部分是原來是只有移工我們現在要擴大輸入相應的技術人力那第二個部分當然就是之前過去大家持續有在討論啊包括印度啦柬埔寨啦我現在講的是這個部分"},{"start":22337.413,"end":22356.112,"text":"這些其實外管有一些持續的評估其實包括但不限於這幾個國家但是這東西因為必須要涉及到國對國的基本的一個談判的understanding所以如果有比較具體的進展會跟大院來報告像印度基本上過去就簽了MOU所以相應的部分在積極的接洽當中"},{"start":22361.58,"end":22370.107,"text":"時間也到了我向來不大喜歡佔用大家太多時間那相關的問題我們還是後續再來做討論不過"},{"start":22374.022,"end":22396.288,"text":"部裡面也知道全球都在搶人所以有關勞動力的輸入怎麼保障已經進來的移工可以有一個很好的工作條件跟環境怎麼向外在原有的輸出國"},{"start":22398.628,"end":22422.179,"text":"增加招募的能力也好或者是再找新的勞動力輸出國家也好這個是部裡面必須要趕快去做的好不好好 謝謝委員提醒我們會朝這方向來努力好 謝謝次長 謝謝主席主席辛苦了好 謝謝楊耀文委員質詢我是全院最後一個質詢的主席辛苦了好 謝謝"},{"start":22427.506,"end":22453.26,"text":"好 本日會議詢答全部結束委員高晶樹梅 委員習新穎 委員林儲英 所聽書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報現在做以下決定報告及詢答完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請求補充資料者請相關機關兩週內以書面答覆委員領要求期限者從期所定"},{"start":22454.889,"end":22455.511,"text":"本次會議到此結束現在散會"}]}},{"id":"17315","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17315","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373dbbd6dedb4516fb0f144cd8b23c89c68c7a9d5466ed3f81405e3a048f706d2c0f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-04-01","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-04-01T08:33:38+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T15:25:00+08:00","duration":24682,"影片長度":"06:51:22","委員發言時間":"08:33:38 - 15:25:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1686.3159687500001,"end":1687.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1690.09596875,"end":1696.8965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1697.5547187500001,"end":1698.9047187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1699.6134687500003,"end":1701.4359687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1701.45284375,"end":1701.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1701.5034687500001,"end":1708.0172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1708.35471875,"end":1714.7672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1715.8978437500002,"end":1738.0040937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1738.2403437500002,"end":1741.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1742.52659375,"end":1743.3197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1743.9778437500001,"end":1751.4534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1751.7403437500002,"end":1752.4322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1754.3053437500002,"end":1756.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1756.4315937500003,"end":1774.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1775.0615937500002,"end":1784.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1786.0472187500002,"end":1791.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1792.44284375,"end":1793.9447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1795.9359687500003,"end":1798.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1799.2772187500002,"end":1816.7259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1817.5697187500002,"end":1821.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1822.8009687500003,"end":1826.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1828.47096875,"end":1831.2047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1832.2340937500003,"end":1832.7403437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1833.3140937500002,"end":1836.1322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1837.7690937500001,"end":1840.5028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1842.0384687500002,"end":1847.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1848.1978437500002,"end":1853.5978437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1854.18846875,"end":1857.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1860.5672187500002,"end":1862.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1864.60034375,"end":1866.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1868.4984687500003,"end":1870.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1872.5653437500002,"end":1875.6703437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1877.5603437500001,"end":1880.1422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1881.8634687500003,"end":1884.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1885.4747187500002,"end":1888.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1889.9972187500002,"end":1892.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1894.5872187500001,"end":1897.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1899.3628437500001,"end":1901.9278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1904.3072187500002,"end":1907.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1909.8084687500002,"end":1911.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1913.5884687500002,"end":1915.6978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1917.1322187500002,"end":1919.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1920.5072187500002,"end":1922.6165937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1923.81471875,"end":1925.9747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1927.59471875,"end":1928.5059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1928.9447187500002,"end":1930.4634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1932.1678437500002,"end":1936.6397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1938.7322187500001,"end":1940.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1942.7653437500003,"end":1945.0097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1946.7478437500001,"end":1948.8909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1950.6797187500001,"end":1956.1303437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1958.2734687500001,"end":1961.0072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1962.2897187500002,"end":1964.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1966.0528437500002,"end":1971.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1972.73534375,"end":1975.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1978.1184687500001,"end":1979.6034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1981.32471875,"end":1983.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1984.7672187500002,"end":1985.0372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1985.3747187500003,"end":1986.4547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1989.4922187500001,"end":2008.7297187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2017.6397187500002,"end":2018.3653437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2019.0909687500002,"end":2021.1328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2022.0609687500003,"end":2032.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2032.9790937500002,"end":2035.6622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2037.01221875,"end":2038.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2038.5815937500001,"end":2039.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2039.9147187500002,"end":2046.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2047.6434687500002,"end":2048.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2049.34784375,"end":2051.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2051.6934687499997,"end":2086.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2087.08034375,"end":2096.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2096.96909375,"end":2117.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2118.60284375,"end":2118.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2119.46346875,"end":2139.0215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2139.5447187500004,"end":2147.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2147.35784375,"end":2147.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2148.38721875,"end":2162.7478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2165.9540937500005,"end":2168.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2168.8397187500004,"end":2176.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2176.39971875,"end":2188.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2189.19096875,"end":2194.8103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2195.19846875,"end":2209.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2209.3397187500004,"end":2209.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2210.3184687500006,"end":2229.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2230.09596875,"end":2238.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2239.0565937500005,"end":2254.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2254.7165937500004,"end":2294.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2295.30096875,"end":2303.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2310.3534687500005,"end":2310.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2311.3659687500003,"end":2313.2897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2313.7959687500006,"end":2462.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2462.85284375,"end":2469.4678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2469.92346875,"end":2567.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2567.71409375,"end":2575.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2585.2978437500005,"end":2590.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2590.19159375,"end":2723.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2723.94284375,"end":2747.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2747.3484687500004,"end":2747.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2747.3653437500006,"end":2747.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2747.75346875,"end":2750.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2750.58846875,"end":2757.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2763.34596875,"end":2764.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2765.0165937500005,"end":2765.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2765.9784687500005,"end":2765.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2766.0459687500006,"end":2768.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2768.4928437500002,"end":2830.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2830.7615937500004,"end":2862.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2862.9928437500002,"end":2874.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2874.60284375,"end":2945.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2945.0390937500006,"end":2947.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2947.5534687500003,"end":2954.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2958.74159375,"end":2971.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2971.88721875,"end":2973.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2978.14784375,"end":2978.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2978.9747187500006,"end":3014.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3014.6484687500006,"end":3023.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3023.87909375,"end":3029.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3029.61659375,"end":3033.2109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3033.9197187500004,"end":3059.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3059.38409375,"end":3060.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3061.2234687500004,"end":3063.2315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3063.4509687500004,"end":3063.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3063.95721875,"end":3064.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3065.18909375,"end":3065.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3065.84721875,"end":3068.2940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3068.7159687500007,"end":3069.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3070.96034375,"end":3071.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3072.27659375,"end":3073.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3073.72784375,"end":3078.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3078.90846875,"end":3083.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3084.27471875,"end":3086.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3087.16034375,"end":3091.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3091.46346875,"end":3093.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3098.9053437500006,"end":3100.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3100.9303437500002,"end":3101.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3101.5547187500006,"end":3101.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3104.45721875,"end":3104.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3105.5203437500004,"end":3105.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3106.98846875,"end":3118.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3119.0372187500006,"end":3181.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3181.5928437500006,"end":3188.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3194.56971875,"end":3209.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3209.47034375,"end":3236.1159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3236.7909687500005,"end":3288.3947187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3289.44096875,"end":3316.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3317.0822187500007,"end":3322.3809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3324.27096875,"end":3342.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3349.51596875,"end":3352.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3350.0390937500006,"end":3350.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3352.6209687500004,"end":3362.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3363.0665937500007,"end":3375.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3375.8240937500004,"end":3403.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3403.88721875,"end":3404.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3404.7478437500004,"end":3409.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3410.28284375,"end":3412.8478437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3413.4215937500003,"end":3428.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3429.48659375,"end":3430.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3430.9884687500007,"end":3432.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3432.7097187500003,"end":3435.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3435.7303437500004,"end":3448.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3449.43284375,"end":3450.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3451.1709687500006,"end":3457.1784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3457.53284375,"end":3461.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3462.0722187500005,"end":3463.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3464.3165937500007,"end":3470.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3470.61096875,"end":3478.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3480.3815937500003,"end":3485.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3485.91659375,"end":3494.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3494.45534375,"end":3505.9472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3506.3015937500004,"end":3510.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3510.68909375,"end":3511.9040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3513.3047187500006,"end":3527.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3527.3447187500005,"end":3531.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3532.5253437500005,"end":3537.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3538.0772187500006,"end":3543.6628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3544.65846875,"end":3546.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3546.5822187500007,"end":3547.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3548.05034375,"end":3549.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3549.97409375,"end":3551.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3552.1172187500006,"end":3553.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3554.2772187500004,"end":3569.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3569.6503437500005,"end":3571.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3571.9453437500006,"end":3574.8815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3575.1347187500005,"end":3576.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3576.6872187500003,"end":3578.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3578.72909375,"end":3580.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3581.0915937500004,"end":3585.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3585.3778437500005,"end":3587.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3587.89221875,"end":3592.5665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3593.1572187500005,"end":3596.0597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3596.6503437500005,"end":3608.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3609.15471875,"end":3609.6778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3610.30221875,"end":3611.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3612.52971875,"end":3616.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3617.1365937500004,"end":3628.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3628.8478437500007,"end":3642.8203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3643.09034375,"end":3649.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3649.6209687500004,"end":3654.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3655.2909687500005,"end":3658.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3659.2734687500006,"end":3667.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3667.74471875,"end":3677.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3678.0047187500004,"end":3678.7303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3678.8484687500004,"end":3682.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3682.7634687500004,"end":3685.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3686.0203437500004,"end":3688.8553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3690.5597187500007,"end":3695.7403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3696.17909375,"end":3703.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3704.38034375,"end":3710.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3710.77596875,"end":3712.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3714.92721875,"end":3715.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3716.2772187500004,"end":3752.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3752.9972187500007,"end":3758.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3759.4940937500005,"end":3764.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3765.36659375,"end":3772.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3772.42034375,"end":3776.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3777.2634687500004,"end":3778.4109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3779.1872187500003,"end":3782.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3782.6297187500004,"end":3796.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3797.4797187500008,"end":3805.6640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3806.1872187500003,"end":3812.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3812.7684687500005,"end":3830.7403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3831.8878437500007,"end":3843.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3844.20659375,"end":3847.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3851.0240937500002,"end":3853.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3853.6228437500004,"end":3858.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3860.3728437500004,"end":3861.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3861.8240937500004,"end":3862.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3862.6172187500006,"end":3864.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3864.6590937500005,"end":3870.2784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3870.6834687500004,"end":3872.6915937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3873.2315937500007,"end":3875.5097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3875.9484687500008,"end":3877.1972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3877.82159375,"end":3882.1922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3882.8672187500006,"end":3886.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3888.25034375,"end":3889.3809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3889.7184687500003,"end":3891.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3892.35096875,"end":3893.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3895.5234687500006,"end":3897.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3898.25721875,"end":3898.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3899.0165937500005,"end":3900.2315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3901.7334687500006,"end":3904.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3904.72034375,"end":3905.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3905.68221875,"end":3906.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3907.77471875,"end":3908.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3908.9728437500007,"end":3909.6309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3909.90096875,"end":3911.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3912.1959687500002,"end":3912.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3913.1072187500004,"end":3918.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3919.58721875,"end":3920.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3920.5997187500006,"end":3922.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3923.9578437500004,"end":3924.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3926.47221875,"end":3928.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3929.00346875,"end":3959.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3961.30221875,"end":3961.7072187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3962.33159375,"end":3963.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3963.90096875,"end":3967.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3969.3515937500006,"end":3973.8065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3974.1609687500004,"end":3975.7472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3976.4053437500006,"end":3981.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3981.8728437500004,"end":3984.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3984.7078437500004,"end":3986.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3987.3572187500004,"end":3988.3190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3988.3865937500004,"end":3992.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3992.7740937500002,"end":3995.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3996.4528437500003,"end":3999.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4000.04721875,"end":4000.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4001.0597187500007,"end":4005.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4007.3878437500007,"end":4009.2272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4010.23971875,"end":4011.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4012.3828437500006,"end":4018.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4020.0947187500005,"end":4023.1659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4023.5372187500006,"end":4025.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4025.8659687500003,"end":4032.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4032.8184687500006,"end":4036.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4036.5984687500004,"end":4037.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4038.31971875,"end":4038.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4040.3953437500004,"end":4040.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4040.96909375,"end":4044.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4045.00221875,"end":4051.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4052.78159375,"end":4054.8234687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4055.3634687500007,"end":4061.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4061.9109687500004,"end":4062.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4062.50159375,"end":4063.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4063.8347187500003,"end":4070.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4070.8884687500004,"end":4078.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4079.4440937500003,"end":4080.1359687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4080.57471875,"end":4084.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4084.6415937500005,"end":4085.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4086.5653437500005,"end":4097.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4098.02346875,"end":4116.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4117.56471875,"end":4119.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4120.04534375,"end":4132.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4132.60034375,"end":4138.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4138.92846875,"end":4145.189093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4145.526593750001,"end":4147.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4148.04096875,"end":4148.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4149.15471875,"end":4152.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4152.360968749999,"end":4153.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4154.149718750001,"end":4156.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4156.3603437500005,"end":4159.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4159.3134687500005,"end":4160.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4160.798468749999,"end":4163.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4163.65034375,"end":4166.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4166.940968749999,"end":4167.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4167.5653437500005,"end":4177.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4178.17971875,"end":4181.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4182.16221875,"end":4200.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4200.70784375,"end":4213.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4213.83659375,"end":4231.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4231.75784375,"end":4239.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4239.80721875,"end":4244.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4245.409718749999,"end":4247.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4248.1434687500005,"end":4252.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4254.11721875,"end":4306.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4310.73284375,"end":4312.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4313.73659375,"end":4315.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4316.048468749999,"end":4316.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4320.80721875,"end":4321.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4321.78596875,"end":4322.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4323.169718749999,"end":4354.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4355.198468750001,"end":4356.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4357.1728437500005,"end":4357.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4358.387843750001,"end":4363.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4363.88909375,"end":4364.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4364.749718749999,"end":4367.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4368.968468749999,"end":4371.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4371.38159375,"end":4379.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4379.39721875,"end":4394.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4394.73659375,"end":4394.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4394.87159375,"end":4394.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4395.44534375,"end":4411.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4412.45534375,"end":4413.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4413.95721875,"end":4419.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4415.30721875,"end":4415.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4419.89721875,"end":4434.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4434.84846875,"end":4436.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4436.670968750001,"end":4437.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4437.970343749999,"end":4514.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4515.173468749999,"end":4518.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4518.5653437500005,"end":4525.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4523.661593750001,"end":4523.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4525.4334687499995,"end":4530.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4530.732218749999,"end":4553.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4543.08471875,"end":4543.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4543.33784375,"end":4543.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4543.42221875,"end":4543.439093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4550.30721875,"end":4550.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4552.23096875,"end":4553.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4553.96909375,"end":4554.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4554.25596875,"end":4554.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4554.509093750001,"end":4554.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4554.795968750001,"end":4556.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4554.829718749999,"end":4555.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4556.26409375,"end":4559.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4557.833468750001,"end":4558.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4559.942843750001,"end":4559.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4559.95971875,"end":4571.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4560.29721875,"end":4560.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4570.962218750001,"end":4587.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4573.341593749999,"end":4573.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4587.76971875,"end":4591.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4591.9715937500005,"end":4597.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4597.60784375,"end":4631.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4631.69534375,"end":4646.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4636.589093750001,"end":4636.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4636.79159375,"end":4636.909718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4644.30096875,"end":4644.689093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4646.899718750001,"end":4652.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4652.670968750001,"end":4755.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4754.950343750001,"end":4777.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4773.040343750001,"end":4775.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4775.892218749999,"end":4788.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4788.37971875,"end":4794.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4798.97721875,"end":4800.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4801.23846875,"end":4801.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4803.01034375,"end":4803.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4808.292218750001,"end":4808.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4808.91659375,"end":4867.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4868.4178437499995,"end":4875.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4876.264718750001,"end":4881.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4881.934718750001,"end":4883.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4883.45346875,"end":4888.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4887.840968750001,"end":4988.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4988.41596875,"end":5020.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5020.56284375,"end":5023.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5021.03534375,"end":5021.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5021.06909375,"end":5021.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5021.54159375,"end":5021.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5024.376593749999,"end":5028.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5025.96284375,"end":5026.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5027.751593749999,"end":5031.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5029.253468750001,"end":5033.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5033.472218750001,"end":5033.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5033.48909375,"end":5035.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5034.53534375,"end":5034.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5035.345343749999,"end":5044.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5044.60971875,"end":5051.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5049.57096875,"end":5053.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5052.8447187500005,"end":5052.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5052.878468750001,"end":5052.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5052.89534375,"end":5053.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5053.97534375,"end":5055.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5055.81471875,"end":5057.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5056.84409375,"end":5059.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5059.93221875,"end":5061.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5061.974093750001,"end":5065.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5062.19346875,"end":5067.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5066.73284375,"end":5073.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5072.40284375,"end":5075.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5074.14096875,"end":5081.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5080.958468750001,"end":5102.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5102.91284375,"end":5109.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5107.46909375,"end":5108.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5109.274718750001,"end":5109.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5109.29159375,"end":5110.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5110.28721875,"end":5110.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5110.32096875,"end":5114.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5112.362843750001,"end":5119.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5116.817843750001,"end":5122.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5119.956593750001,"end":5120.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5120.07471875,"end":5120.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5122.622843749999,"end":5168.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5169.315968750001,"end":5170.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5171.138468749999,"end":5177.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5178.19221875,"end":5182.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5181.364718750001,"end":5185.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5185.04346875,"end":5195.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5185.17846875,"end":5185.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5193.63284375,"end":5205.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5204.7197187500005,"end":5208.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5208.128468750001,"end":5216.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5208.837218750001,"end":5209.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5216.059718750001,"end":5263.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5216.802218750001,"end":5216.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5232.63096875,"end":5233.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5233.03596875,"end":5234.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5264.11971875,"end":5273.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5273.890343749999,"end":5361.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5361.420968750001,"end":5371.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5364.15471875,"end":5365.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5371.69784375,"end":5374.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5374.78596875,"end":5376.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5376.96284375,"end":5379.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5379.66284375,"end":5380.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5380.65846875,"end":5394.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5394.20909375,"end":5399.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5398.47846875,"end":5401.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5399.575343750001,"end":5399.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5401.060343749999,"end":5401.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5401.41471875,"end":5406.595343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5401.43159375,"end":5401.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5402.849093750001,"end":5403.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5403.49034375,"end":5404.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5404.65471875,"end":5408.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5409.02534375,"end":5418.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5416.720343749999,"end":5437.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5432.4647187499995,"end":5433.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5434.42221875,"end":5452.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5451.76971875,"end":5471.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5470.770968750001,"end":5484.642218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5473.403468750001,"end":5473.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5483.68034375,"end":5521.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5484.86159375,"end":5485.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5520.2822187500005,"end":5521.345343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5522.155343750001,"end":5523.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5523.94409375,"end":5525.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5524.56846875,"end":5528.095343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5527.09971875,"end":5528.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5528.483468750001,"end":5530.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5531.31846875,"end":5535.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5534.5584687499995,"end":5537.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5538.270968750001,"end":5541.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5541.173468749999,"end":5541.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5541.831593750001,"end":5541.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5541.966593749999,"end":5542.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5542.169093750001,"end":5542.439093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5543.282843749999,"end":5546.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5547.2147187499995,"end":5550.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5557.575968749999,"end":5560.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5560.7147187499995,"end":5562.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5567.83596875,"end":5569.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5569.253468750001,"end":5575.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5576.7459687499995,"end":5584.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5585.2509687500005,"end":5588.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5588.575343750001,"end":5590.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5591.22471875,"end":5592.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5593.18221875,"end":5593.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5593.94159375,"end":5595.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5596.32096875,"end":5596.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5596.9959687499995,"end":5606.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5607.407843749999,"end":5612.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5612.706593750001,"end":5618.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5619.43971875,"end":5624.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5626.206593750001,"end":5628.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5628.9403437500005,"end":5641.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5641.107218749999,"end":5641.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5642.45721875,"end":5644.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5644.7353437500005,"end":5644.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5646.20346875,"end":5669.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5661.34034375,"end":5661.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5670.4697187500005,"end":5677.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5677.827218750001,"end":5683.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5683.9697187500005,"end":5693.470343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5686.83846875,"end":5687.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5691.732218749999,"end":5692.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5692.79534375,"end":5709.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5709.265343749999,"end":5729.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5709.315968750001,"end":5710.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5729.36346875,"end":5744.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5744.78721875,"end":5748.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5748.53346875,"end":5768.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5769.89721875,"end":5778.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5778.790343750001,"end":5780.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5781.76034375,"end":5783.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5783.44784375,"end":5784.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5784.510968750001,"end":5786.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5786.97471875,"end":5787.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5787.90284375,"end":5792.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5793.5897187499995,"end":5795.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5795.935343749999,"end":5806.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5806.09409375,"end":5807.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5807.88284375,"end":5808.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5808.99659375,"end":5832.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5832.7059687500005,"end":5835.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5835.979718750001,"end":5865.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5865.966593749999,"end":5884.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5882.6053437499995,"end":5883.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5884.022843750001,"end":5884.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5884.157843750001,"end":5885.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5884.42784375,"end":5884.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5885.03534375,"end":5889.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5891.245343750001,"end":5893.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5893.70909375,"end":5894.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5894.0634687500005,"end":5894.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5894.282843750001,"end":5895.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5895.970343750001,"end":5899.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5898.19784375,"end":5899.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5899.88534375,"end":5908.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5900.03721875,"end":5912.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5912.87909375,"end":5923.814093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5912.895968750001,"end":5913.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5921.620343750001,"end":5926.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5924.3709687499995,"end":5926.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5926.17659375,"end":5926.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5926.395968750001,"end":5926.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5926.41284375,"end":5926.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5926.733468750001,"end":5926.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5926.767218750001,"end":5935.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5927.03721875,"end":5927.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5927.67846875,"end":5929.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5932.8084687499995,"end":5937.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5935.42409375,"end":5935.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5935.491593750001,"end":5935.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5935.52534375,"end":5935.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5936.993468750001,"end":5970.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5970.57471875,"end":5973.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5974.354718750001,"end":5974.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5975.569718750001,"end":5980.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5981.003468750001,"end":5981.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5981.189093750001,"end":5987.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5988.310343749999,"end":5989.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5989.019093750001,"end":5993.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5993.895968750001,"end":5995.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5995.85346875,"end":5995.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5995.904093749999,"end":5996.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5996.241593750001,"end":6003.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6003.34596875,"end":6003.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6003.835343750001,"end":6009.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6005.7928437499995,"end":6011.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6011.96909375,"end":6021.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6021.975968750001,"end":6030.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6027.966593749999,"end":6028.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6028.962218750001,"end":6029.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6031.442843750001,"end":6043.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6043.50846875,"end":6047.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6048.57096875,"end":6051.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6051.878468750001,"end":6052.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6052.823468750001,"end":6060.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6061.159718750001,"end":6064.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6064.7372187500005,"end":6074.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6069.225968750001,"end":6069.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6075.25034375,"end":6079.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6079.637843750001,"end":6079.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6079.78971875,"end":6079.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6079.823468750001,"end":6079.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6079.9247187500005,"end":6079.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6079.99221875,"end":6081.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6081.67971875,"end":6094.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6081.696593750001,"end":6082.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6094.33596875,"end":6120.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6105.405968749999,"end":6107.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6109.1522187499995,"end":6110.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6120.81284375,"end":6124.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6123.15846875,"end":6123.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6124.69409375,"end":6124.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6124.964093750001,"end":6125.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6125.335343750001,"end":6127.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6127.680968750001,"end":6132.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6132.47346875,"end":6149.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6144.33659375,"end":6144.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6144.35346875,"end":6146.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6146.22659375,"end":6147.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6147.458468750001,"end":6147.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6147.76221875,"end":6147.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6149.2978437500005,"end":6157.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6150.833468750001,"end":6151.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6155.0184687500005,"end":6156.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6157.93784375,"end":6159.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6157.98846875,"end":6160.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6160.14846875,"end":6167.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6168.315968750001,"end":6170.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6170.67846875,"end":6174.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6175.251593750001,"end":6186.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6183.01409375,"end":6183.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6183.25034375,"end":6202.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6186.20346875,"end":6186.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6201.57659375,"end":6212.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6211.1278437500005,"end":6211.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6212.03909375,"end":6230.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6228.880343750001,"end":6228.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6229.18409375,"end":6251.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6231.749093750001,"end":6232.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6233.11596875,"end":6233.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6251.03721875,"end":6263.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6263.96346875,"end":6266.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6266.25846875,"end":6267.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6268.823468750001,"end":6274.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6274.5947187500005,"end":6277.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6275.45534375,"end":6275.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6276.75471875,"end":6279.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6279.083468750001,"end":6310.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6280.4334687499995,"end":6280.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6281.39534375,"end":6281.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6281.952218750001,"end":6282.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6310.55534375,"end":6311.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6311.145968750001,"end":6312.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6312.86721875,"end":6329.657843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6329.657843750001,"end":6340.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6340.542218750001,"end":6342.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6342.550343750001,"end":6343.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6347.69721875,"end":6349.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6355.763468749999,"end":6355.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6355.780343750001,"end":6357.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6358.024718750001,"end":6358.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6364.589093750001,"end":6365.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6365.68596875,"end":6366.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6367.08659375,"end":6374.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6374.83221875,"end":6402.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6403.030343750001,"end":6422.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6422.82471875,"end":6451.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6431.852843750001,"end":6431.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6451.90034375,"end":6458.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6458.58284375,"end":6482.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6483.28784375,"end":6487.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6487.74284375,"end":6490.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6490.780343750001,"end":6492.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6492.80534375,"end":6495.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6495.72471875,"end":6496.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6496.214093750001,"end":6517.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6506.45721875,"end":6506.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6506.474093750001,"end":6506.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6506.96346875,"end":6507.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6517.341593749999,"end":6518.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6517.763468749999,"end":6524.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6525.39096875,"end":6525.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6526.33596875,"end":6527.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6527.044718749999,"end":6527.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6527.145968750001,"end":6527.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6527.17971875,"end":6527.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6527.432843750001,"end":6527.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6527.63534375,"end":6527.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6529.677218750001,"end":6546.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6546.467843750001,"end":6546.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6546.85596875,"end":6579.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6555.1415937500005,"end":6555.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6555.968468749999,"end":6556.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6565.6884687500005,"end":6567.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6577.88909375,"end":6577.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6577.905968749999,"end":6578.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6579.81284375,"end":6614.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6615.35159375,"end":6649.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6619.09784375,"end":6619.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6619.14846875,"end":6619.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6627.872843749999,"end":6628.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6650.333468750001,"end":6660.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6660.981593750001,"end":6664.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6664.4072187500005,"end":6668.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6668.54159375,"end":6680.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6679.03784375,"end":6695.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6696.43596875,"end":6704.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6704.4853437500005,"end":6711.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6711.606593750001,"end":6712.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6713.327843749999,"end":6719.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6719.72346875,"end":6724.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6722.372843749999,"end":6729.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6727.13159375,"end":6728.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6728.39721875,"end":6846.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6846.53909375,"end":6866.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6867.00846875,"end":6867.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6868.37534375,"end":6868.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6870.5184687500005,"end":6874.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6874.484093749999,"end":6874.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6874.93971875,"end":6878.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6879.02346875,"end":6887.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6883.3603437500005,"end":6883.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6887.292218750001,"end":6897.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6897.6365937499995,"end":6946.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6946.6415937500005,"end":6957.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6948.76784375,"end":6950.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6951.75471875,"end":6952.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6958.18409375,"end":6965.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6965.87909375,"end":6969.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6969.76034375,"end":6971.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6971.329718750001,"end":6973.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6973.74284375,"end":7013.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6977.472218750001,"end":6977.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7013.753468750001,"end":7029.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7029.413468750001,"end":7043.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7043.858468750001,"end":7044.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7044.280343750001,"end":7051.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7051.857218749999,"end":7072.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7072.529093749999,"end":7072.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7072.545968750001,"end":7074.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7075.00971875,"end":7076.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7076.663468750001,"end":7082.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7077.15284375,"end":7077.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7078.89096875,"end":7085.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7089.505343750001,"end":7091.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7102.93784375,"end":7103.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7103.96721875,"end":7104.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7104.827843750001,"end":7106.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7106.58284375,"end":7107.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7107.71346875,"end":7108.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7113.9403437500005,"end":7114.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7114.024718750001,"end":7114.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7114.51409375,"end":7137.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7138.18971875,"end":7139.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7139.69159375,"end":7157.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7157.140343750001,"end":7158.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7159.31721875,"end":7160.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7161.122843749999,"end":7181.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7181.69346875,"end":7184.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7185.43971875,"end":7192.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7195.59846875,"end":7206.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7206.58409375,"end":7215.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7216.2197187500005,"end":7222.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7217.97471875,"end":7220.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7222.294718749999,"end":7223.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7224.4715937500005,"end":7226.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7224.52221875,"end":7231.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7232.35221875,"end":7263.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7235.08596875,"end":7235.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7235.811593750001,"end":7236.689093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7262.895968750001,"end":7271.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7272.126593750001,"end":7272.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7273.1728437500005,"end":7306.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7306.65284375,"end":7314.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7317.4697187500005,"end":7335.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7332.555968750001,"end":7340.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7340.284718750001,"end":7343.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7344.19971875,"end":7344.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7344.216593749999,"end":7363.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7363.47096875,"end":7371.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7371.75659375,"end":7388.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7388.96909375,"end":7391.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7391.989718750001,"end":7399.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7399.9715937500005,"end":7400.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7401.20346875,"end":7405.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7407.58221875,"end":7423.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7422.9384687500005,"end":7423.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7423.32659375,"end":7423.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7423.495343750001,"end":7423.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7423.529093749999,"end":7423.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7423.61346875,"end":7441.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7441.09596875,"end":7449.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7449.4490937499995,"end":7456.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7457.58284375,"end":7459.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7460.08034375,"end":7474.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7474.27221875,"end":7555.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7475.82471875,"end":7475.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7554.29346875,"end":7554.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7555.2215937500005,"end":7562.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7562.477843750001,"end":7565.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7565.02596875,"end":7575.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7573.66596875,"end":7578.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7575.5897187499995,"end":7588.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7588.70159375,"end":7595.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7595.63721875,"end":7605.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7603.484093750001,"end":7618.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7616.41034375,"end":7641.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7635.00659375,"end":7636.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7639.56284375,"end":7647.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7648.23659375,"end":7651.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7651.93221875,"end":7664.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7662.19221875,"end":7690.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7688.02784375,"end":7688.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7689.15846875,"end":7701.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7690.7615937499995,"end":7691.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7699.401593750001,"end":7699.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7701.038468750001,"end":7707.923468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7708.59846875,"end":7709.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7709.610968750001,"end":7715.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7715.247218750001,"end":7751.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7751.5115937499995,"end":7759.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7759.22346875,"end":7771.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7766.800343750001,"end":7767.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7767.981593750001,"end":7767.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7770.749093750001,"end":7770.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7770.76596875,"end":7785.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7785.970343750001,"end":7786.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7793.31096875,"end":7794.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7794.795968750001,"end":7795.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7796.247218750001,"end":7799.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7803.06471875,"end":7803.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7803.604718750001,"end":7804.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7804.98846875,"end":7805.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7806.33846875,"end":7814.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7814.607218749999,"end":7837.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7837.52346875,"end":7850.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7850.989718750001,"end":7851.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7851.68159375,"end":7852.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7853.08221875,"end":7853.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7853.40284375,"end":7854.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7854.364718750001,"end":7894.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7854.550343750001,"end":7855.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7895.53971875,"end":7896.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7897.0584687499995,"end":7912.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7912.33034375,"end":7917.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7917.44346875,"end":7932.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7932.934718750001,"end":7952.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7933.37346875,"end":7934.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7934.11596875,"end":7934.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7956.509093750001,"end":7957.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7959.310343749999,"end":7961.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7962.077843750001,"end":7962.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7962.972218750001,"end":7969.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7969.907843750001,"end":7976.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7976.45534375,"end":7991.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7984.57221875,"end":7984.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7984.99409375,"end":7985.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7985.97284375,"end":7986.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7986.968468750001,"end":7987.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7991.72721875,"end":8042.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8042.807843750001,"end":8070.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8069.200343750001,"end":8077.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8077.485968750001,"end":8086.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8077.907843750001,"end":8078.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8084.3709687499995,"end":8084.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8085.467843750001,"end":8088.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8087.17221875,"end":8100.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8099.49096875,"end":8190.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8101.22909375,"end":8104.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8104.99221875,"end":8105.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8191.47659375,"end":8230.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8217.76784375,"end":8218.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8231.352218750002,"end":8237.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8235.38534375,"end":8254.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8238.034718750001,"end":8238.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8254.67346875,"end":8266.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8259.22971875,"end":8259.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8259.246593750002,"end":8261.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8261.86221875,"end":8261.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8261.980343750001,"end":8261.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8261.997218750003,"end":8263.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8265.625343750002,"end":8266.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8266.941593750002,"end":8275.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8269.23659375,"end":8269.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8273.691593750002,"end":8279.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8276.712218749999,"end":8277.134093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8278.29846875,"end":8281.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8282.297843750002,"end":8296.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8296.844093750002,"end":8298.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8298.902843750002,"end":8317.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8315.89596875,"end":8316.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8317.465343750002,"end":8343.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8342.59221875,"end":8346.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8344.92096875,"end":8346.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8347.367843750002,"end":8353.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8353.324718750002,"end":8369.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8353.93221875,"end":8353.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8353.999718750001,"end":8354.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8356.14284375,"end":8356.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8369.47409375,"end":8382.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8381.050343750001,"end":8387.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8387.47971875,"end":8387.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8387.715968750003,"end":8389.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8389.808468750001,"end":8396.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8404.81034375,"end":8406.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8407.29096875,"end":8408.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8409.07971875,"end":8412.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8414.09159375,"end":8414.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8414.93534375,"end":8437.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8437.851593750001,"end":8441.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8441.95221875,"end":8444.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8445.141593750002,"end":8447.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8447.976593750001,"end":8451.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8452.27971875,"end":8467.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8467.855343750001,"end":8472.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8472.15846875,"end":8476.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8476.613468750002,"end":8482.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8482.992218750001,"end":8485.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8488.577843750001,"end":8489.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8489.62409375,"end":8494.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8495.19284375,"end":8508.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8509.38471875,"end":8516.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8516.860343750002,"end":8518.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8519.762843750003,"end":8522.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8522.817218750002,"end":8548.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8548.821593750003,"end":8550.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8550.711593750002,"end":8586.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8587.195343750001,"end":8643.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8643.945968750002,"end":8670.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8670.81096875,"end":8691.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8691.78659375,"end":8693.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8693.507843750001,"end":8697.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8698.097843750002,"end":8704.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8705.590343750002,"end":8710.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8710.281593750002,"end":8711.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8712.239093750002,"end":8721.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8722.836593750002,"end":8728.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8726.38034375,"end":8726.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8728.624718750001,"end":8729.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8728.92846875,"end":8732.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8731.86471875,"end":8732.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8733.13034375,"end":8733.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8733.99096875,"end":8734.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8735.18909375,"end":8741.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8740.11659375,"end":8770.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8742.47909375,"end":8743.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8765.95221875,"end":8766.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8770.42409375,"end":8774.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8775.570968750002,"end":8782.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8782.844093750002,"end":8830.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8831.81534375,"end":8848.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8844.066593750002,"end":8845.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8848.21784375,"end":8897.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8898.285968750002,"end":8905.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8906.082218750002,"end":8908.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8908.90034375,"end":8958.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8922.164093750001,"end":8922.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8922.55221875,"end":8922.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8958.394718750002,"end":8961.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8962.02284375,"end":8985.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8985.934718750003,"end":9020.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9021.33846875,"end":9029.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9029.77596875,"end":9035.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9035.496593750002,"end":9039.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9039.664718750002,"end":9041.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9042.06096875,"end":9056.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9056.13471875,"end":9067.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9064.47096875,"end":9066.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9066.867218750001,"end":9066.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9067.67721875,"end":9074.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9074.17409375,"end":9074.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9165.14721875,"end":9167.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9167.03721875,"end":9167.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9167.847218750001,"end":9168.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9386.26034375,"end":9388.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9388.62284375,"end":9392.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9406.56096875,"end":9409.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9410.18909375,"end":9413.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9418.440968750001,"end":9424.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9424.245968750001,"end":9497.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9498.05721875,"end":9563.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9563.937218750001,"end":9565.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9566.18159375,"end":9574.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9574.129718750002,"end":9580.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9581.031593750002,"end":9590.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9582.465968750003,"end":9583.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9590.262218750002,"end":9591.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9591.76409375,"end":9591.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9591.96659375,"end":9592.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9592.03409375,"end":9592.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9592.202843750001,"end":9592.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9592.23659375,"end":9598.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9595.45971875,"end":9595.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9598.969718750002,"end":9628.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9599.003468750001,"end":9599.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9628.99034375,"end":9646.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9643.06409375,"end":9649.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9650.320343750001,"end":9667.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9650.92784375,"end":9650.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9650.961593750002,"end":9651.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9668.17409375,"end":9669.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9670.06409375,"end":9670.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9671.32971875,"end":9672.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9672.22409375,"end":9675.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9676.03784375,"end":9677.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9678.383468750002,"end":9680.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9680.543468750002,"end":9682.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9683.04096875,"end":9685.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9686.36534375,"end":9688.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9688.407218750002,"end":9690.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9690.972218750001,"end":9690.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9691.10721875,"end":9706.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9707.45909375,"end":9715.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9714.394718750002,"end":9722.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9717.90471875,"end":9718.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9719.69346875,"end":9720.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9720.925343750001,"end":9787.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9788.324093750001,"end":9790.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9795.36096875,"end":9796.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9796.25534375,"end":9825.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9825.972218750001,"end":9829.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9831.895343750002,"end":9832.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9834.409718750001,"end":9835.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9837.329093750002,"end":9839.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9839.60721875,"end":9844.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9845.547218750002,"end":9847.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9847.26846875,"end":9847.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9847.285343750002,"end":9847.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9848.48346875,"end":9849.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9849.37784375,"end":9855.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9857.00534375,"end":9857.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9859.40159375,"end":9864.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9861.22409375,"end":9861.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9864.953468750002,"end":9886.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9890.13096875,"end":9891.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9891.81846875,"end":9892.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9894.13034375,"end":9897.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9899.15909375,"end":9902.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9902.770343750002,"end":9902.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9902.871593750002,"end":9904.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9904.862843750001,"end":9905.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9910.38096875,"end":9919.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9919.965968750003,"end":9920.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9920.87721875,"end":9922.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9922.26096875,"end":9922.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9922.31159375,"end":9922.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9924.35346875,"end":9932.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9929.51721875,"end":9930.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9931.710968750001,"end":9941.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9936.38534375,"end":9938.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9941.160968750002,"end":9956.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9956.449718750002,"end":9956.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9956.753468750001,"end":9992.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9991.92096875,"end":9997.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9999.329093750002,"end":10036.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10036.62284375,"end":10051.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10051.945343750001,"end":10077.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10077.375968750002,"end":10077.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10077.54471875,"end":10078.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10078.000343750002,"end":10086.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10087.500968750002,"end":10092.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10093.15409375,"end":10098.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10099.988468750002,"end":10106.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10107.09284375,"end":10108.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10109.55659375,"end":10110.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10110.957218750002,"end":10110.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10111.109093750001,"end":10111.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10111.159718750001,"end":10111.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10111.227218750002,"end":10113.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10113.15096875,"end":10116.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10117.25159375,"end":10117.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10117.26846875,"end":10140.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10117.30221875,"end":10118.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10140.15096875,"end":10145.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10145.027843750002,"end":10156.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10145.702843750001,"end":10146.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10151.76096875,"end":10152.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10155.70971875,"end":10171.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10171.79159375,"end":10192.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10194.437843750002,"end":10197.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10197.981593750003,"end":10215.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10210.87409375,"end":10211.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10211.34659375,"end":10211.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10216.24034375,"end":10223.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10223.26034375,"end":10225.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10225.757843750001,"end":10263.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10264.047218750002,"end":10265.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10265.07659375,"end":10268.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10268.485343750002,"end":10272.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10273.04159375,"end":10281.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10278.25596875,"end":10284.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10284.769718750002,"end":10354.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10355.003468750001,"end":10364.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10364.976593750001,"end":10369.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10370.12346875,"end":10370.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10373.97096875,"end":10374.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10374.105968750002,"end":10377.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10377.09284375,"end":10377.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10377.93659375,"end":10378.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10378.172843750002,"end":10378.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10378.29096875,"end":10378.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10379.94471875,"end":10382.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10382.762843750003,"end":10382.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10382.77971875,"end":10389.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10389.293468750002,"end":10421.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10421.625968750002,"end":10422.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10423.195343750001,"end":10426.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10427.38034375,"end":10428.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10429.38846875,"end":10432.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10445.38596875,"end":10446.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10447.52909375,"end":10449.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10453.367843750002,"end":10454.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10455.49409375,"end":10457.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10458.02534375,"end":10459.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10459.965968750003,"end":10462.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10465.77096875,"end":10467.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10467.644093750001,"end":10469.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10469.770343750002,"end":10471.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10471.69409375,"end":10472.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10473.48284375,"end":10475.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10475.507843750001,"end":10478.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10478.66346875,"end":10480.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10480.53659375,"end":10482.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10483.40534375,"end":10484.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10484.957843750002,"end":10490.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10490.121593750002,"end":10491.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10492.21409375,"end":10493.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10494.239093750002,"end":10495.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10496.129093750002,"end":10502.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10503.43596875,"end":10506.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10506.878468750001,"end":10508.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10509.426593750002,"end":10512.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10512.531593750002,"end":10513.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10514.472218750001,"end":10515.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10516.04159375,"end":10516.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10517.324093750001,"end":10520.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10521.171593750001,"end":10522.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10523.230343750001,"end":10525.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10525.677218750003,"end":10528.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10528.95096875,"end":10531.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10531.887218750002,"end":10533.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10533.945968750002,"end":10534.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10535.042843750001,"end":10539.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10540.105343750001,"end":10542.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10543.76721875,"end":10544.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10545.20159375,"end":10556.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10550.196593750003,"end":10550.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10551.32721875,"end":10554.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10555.91721875,"end":10556.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10556.187218750001,"end":10557.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10556.96346875,"end":10558.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10558.81971875,"end":10559.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10560.000968750002,"end":10567.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10566.12659375,"end":10566.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10566.88596875,"end":10568.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10569.265343750001,"end":10571.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10571.965343750002,"end":10576.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10576.605968750002,"end":10576.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10577.348468750002,"end":10578.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10579.305968750003,"end":10581.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10583.17034375,"end":10586.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10587.625343750002,"end":10590.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10591.624718750001,"end":10593.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10595.472218750001,"end":10597.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10598.13846875,"end":10599.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10600.66971875,"end":10604.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10607.655968750001,"end":10608.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10610.609093750001,"end":10610.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10612.44846875,"end":10620.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10619.046593750001,"end":10619.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10619.164718750002,"end":10619.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10619.367218750001,"end":10619.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10621.13909375,"end":10627.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10627.770968750003,"end":10628.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10628.73284375,"end":10631.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10633.137218750002,"end":10634.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10635.16221875,"end":10635.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10637.102843750003,"end":10637.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10638.368468750003,"end":10640.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10640.579093750002,"end":10649.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10650.14721875,"end":10651.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10651.530968750001,"end":10654.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10655.395343750002,"end":10659.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10660.15409375,"end":10670.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10671.07221875,"end":10678.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10678.750343750002,"end":10682.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10683.42471875,"end":10688.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10688.504093750002,"end":10695.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10695.55784375,"end":10695.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10696.519718750002,"end":10696.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10697.481593750003,"end":10698.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10698.59534375,"end":10703.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10704.46784375,"end":10711.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10711.52159375,"end":10713.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10714.339718750001,"end":10719.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10719.68909375,"end":10722.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10722.321593750003,"end":10723.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10724.144093750001,"end":10725.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10725.61221875,"end":10727.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10727.97471875,"end":10728.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10729.88159375,"end":10731.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10733.67846875,"end":10736.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10737.036593750003,"end":10737.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10740.10784375,"end":10742.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10743.077843750001,"end":10745.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10745.96346875,"end":10751.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10752.13971875,"end":10752.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10753.911593750003,"end":10755.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10756.105343750001,"end":10756.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10756.999718750001,"end":10757.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10757.87721875,"end":10762.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10762.99034375,"end":10765.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10765.69034375,"end":10767.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10768.727843750003,"end":10770.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10771.242218750001,"end":10775.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10775.17409375,"end":10776.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10777.890968750002,"end":10781.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10782.379718750002,"end":10782.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10783.105343750001,"end":10785.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10787.594093750002,"end":10793.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10794.833468750003,"end":10796.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10796.68971875,"end":10797.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10797.68534375,"end":10799.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10800.047843750002,"end":10801.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10801.296593750001,"end":10802.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10802.37659375,"end":10804.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10805.44784375,"end":10807.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10807.77659375,"end":10817.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10818.40784375,"end":10821.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10822.035968750002,"end":10827.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10827.48659375,"end":10828.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10829.54534375,"end":10830.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10830.92909375,"end":10831.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10832.59971875,"end":10840.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10841.442218750002,"end":10846.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10847.027843750002,"end":10847.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10849.00221875,"end":10850.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10850.824718750002,"end":10854.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10855.70159375,"end":10856.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10857.051593750002,"end":10861.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10860.780968750001,"end":10861.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10861.33784375,"end":10861.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10862.40096875,"end":10865.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10865.489093750002,"end":10872.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10872.644093750001,"end":10873.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10872.711593750002,"end":10872.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10873.977218750002,"end":10883.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10880.38971875,"end":10881.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10881.030968750001,"end":10881.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10883.950343750003,"end":10894.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10894.598468750002,"end":10896.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10896.25221875,"end":10902.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10903.10346875,"end":10915.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10904.26784375,"end":10905.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10916.18159375,"end":10924.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10924.281593750002,"end":10928.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10928.618468750003,"end":10929.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10928.68596875,"end":10929.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10930.12034375,"end":10930.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10930.74471875,"end":10942.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10948.125968750002,"end":10951.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10951.51784375,"end":10953.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10967.29596875,"end":10968.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10969.01721875,"end":10969.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10969.574093750001,"end":10970.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10971.227843750003,"end":10972.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10975.56471875,"end":10976.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10977.04971875,"end":10979.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10979.749718750001,"end":11044.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11045.055968750003,"end":11077.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11071.735343750002,"end":11073.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11076.949718750002,"end":11079.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11079.24471875,"end":11079.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11079.683468750001,"end":11080.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11080.915343750003,"end":11089.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11086.16346875,"end":11086.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11089.977218750002,"end":11106.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11090.753468750001,"end":11091.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11106.649718750003,"end":11109.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11109.332843750002,"end":11109.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11111.52659375,"end":11111.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11111.543468750002,"end":11138.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11138.965343750002,"end":11161.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11161.999718750001,"end":11189.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11190.012218750002,"end":11202.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11202.347843750002,"end":11213.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11213.02971875,"end":11214.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11214.329093750002,"end":11217.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11214.39659375,"end":11215.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11217.552218750003,"end":11230.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11231.153468750003,"end":11248.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11246.13846875,"end":11247.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11247.505343750003,"end":11276.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11276.665343750003,"end":11276.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11276.73284375,"end":11276.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11276.800343750001,"end":11276.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11276.969093750002,"end":11284.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11277.47534375,"end":11278.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11284.680968750003,"end":11285.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11285.659718750001,"end":11288.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11288.410343750002,"end":11340.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11288.54534375,"end":11290.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11310.347843750002,"end":11310.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11340.030968750001,"end":11405.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11405.792843750001,"end":11439.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11439.914093750001,"end":11452.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11452.992218750001,"end":11463.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11464.349093750003,"end":11509.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11509.422218750002,"end":11563.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11561.76846875,"end":11561.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11561.785343750002,"end":11562.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11563.38846875,"end":11563.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11563.40534375,"end":11563.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11563.472843750002,"end":11563.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11563.523468750001,"end":11563.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11563.60784375,"end":11573.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11563.911593750003,"end":11564.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11564.60346875,"end":11564.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11572.551593750002,"end":11579.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11576.21346875,"end":11587.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11587.958468750003,"end":11681.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11682.62721875,"end":11688.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11688.567218750002,"end":11689.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11688.65159375,"end":11689.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11689.86659375,"end":11691.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11690.929718750001,"end":11694.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11691.21659375,"end":11691.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11695.80659375,"end":11720.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11704.024718750003,"end":11704.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11704.058468750001,"end":11704.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11721.000968750002,"end":11721.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11721.28784375,"end":11721.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11721.33846875,"end":11721.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11721.405968750001,"end":11721.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11721.726593750001,"end":11721.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11721.794093750003,"end":11722.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11722.01346875,"end":11723.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11723.633468750002,"end":11723.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11723.66721875,"end":11723.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11724.274718750003,"end":11743.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11743.02284375,"end":11744.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11744.86221875,"end":11784.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11785.125968750002,"end":11795.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11796.887843750003,"end":11799.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11799.90846875,"end":11816.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11816.47971875,"end":11889.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11890.645343750002,"end":11910.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11895.285968750002,"end":11896.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11910.96284375,"end":11912.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11913.17346875,"end":11913.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11914.40534375,"end":11921.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11914.540343750003,"end":11915.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11916.160343750002,"end":11919.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11921.340968750003,"end":11959.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11960.86221875,"end":12073.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12074.430968750003,"end":12075.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12075.39284375,"end":12076.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12077.046593750001,"end":12090.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12091.440968750001,"end":12140.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12091.47471875,"end":12093.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12095.59221875,"end":12095.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12095.96346875,"end":12096.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12097.80284375,"end":12098.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12139.93971875,"end":12162.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12162.265343750001,"end":12195.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12195.239093750002,"end":12197.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12197.11221875,"end":12199.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12200.200343750003,"end":12204.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12209.633468750002,"end":12213.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12218.661593750003,"end":12219.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12219.218468750001,"end":12364.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12365.085968750001,"end":12367.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12368.106593750003,"end":12370.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12370.688468750002,"end":12374.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12374.215343750002,"end":12380.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12377.20221875,"end":12377.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12379.93596875,"end":12383.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12382.36596875,"end":12385.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12384.35721875,"end":12400.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12385.42034375,"end":12385.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12401.063468750002,"end":12406.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12406.76721875,"end":12416.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12416.099093750003,"end":12440.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12416.48721875,"end":12417.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12441.192218750002,"end":12441.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12443.099093750003,"end":12474.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12475.161593750003,"end":12476.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12476.59596875,"end":12519.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12519.812843750002,"end":12531.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12532.097843750002,"end":12546.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12546.509093750003,"end":12575.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12572.766593750002,"end":12573.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12573.289718750002,"end":12576.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12576.141593750002,"end":12581.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12577.778468750003,"end":12578.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12578.774093750002,"end":12599.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12586.38471875,"end":12586.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12586.40159375,"end":12586.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12597.269093750001,"end":12597.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12598.652843750002,"end":12615.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12616.050968750002,"end":12632.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12632.80784375,"end":12632.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12632.84159375,"end":12679.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12679.56846875,"end":12691.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12681.27284375,"end":12681.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12689.54159375,"end":12689.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12689.69346875,"end":12689.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12691.836593750002,"end":12692.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12692.258468750002,"end":12692.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12693.22034375,"end":12699.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12699.329093750002,"end":12701.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12701.13471875,"end":12703.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12703.176593750002,"end":12703.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12703.699718750002,"end":12711.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12712.22159375,"end":12722.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12723.477218750002,"end":12729.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12729.535343750002,"end":12731.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12731.72909375,"end":12737.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12737.820968750002,"end":12743.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12738.765968750002,"end":12739.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12740.48721875,"end":12741.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12742.394093750001,"end":12747.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12748.38471875,"end":12753.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12753.14346875,"end":12755.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12757.598468750002,"end":12760.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12758.391593750002,"end":12758.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12759.15096875,"end":12787.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12770.355968750002,"end":12770.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12770.79471875,"end":12770.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12788.445968750002,"end":12804.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12805.169093750003,"end":12819.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12819.79971875,"end":12835.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12835.93221875,"end":12840.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12840.488468750002,"end":12848.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12848.31846875,"end":12861.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12861.07596875,"end":12884.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12884.481593750003,"end":12887.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12887.063468750002,"end":12887.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12887.535968750002,"end":12893.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12892.73346875,"end":12892.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12892.750343750002,"end":12894.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12894.10034375,"end":12894.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12894.20159375,"end":12894.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12894.218468750001,"end":12894.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12894.505343750003,"end":12897.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12896.31096875,"end":12896.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12896.327843750001,"end":12896.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12896.395343750002,"end":12896.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12897.20534375,"end":12897.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12897.441593750002,"end":12920.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12918.704093750002,"end":12919.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12920.425343750001,"end":12920.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12920.813468750002,"end":12922.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12923.73284375,"end":12931.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12936.18659375,"end":12937.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12937.82346875,"end":12939.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12939.54471875,"end":12940.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12945.77159375,"end":12946.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12946.345343750003,"end":13030.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13030.754093750002,"end":13037.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13038.989093750002,"end":13062.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13060.015343750001,"end":13083.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13084.26471875,"end":13102.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13102.152218750001,"end":13116.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13115.922218750002,"end":13120.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13120.54596875,"end":13126.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13126.08096875,"end":13141.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13141.63971875,"end":13216.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13214.370968750001,"end":13218.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13218.437843750002,"end":13228.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13229.609093750001,"end":13244.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13242.214718750001,"end":13242.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13244.03721875,"end":13246.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13247.05784375,"end":13267.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13267.324718750002,"end":13292.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13272.52221875,"end":13275.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13275.25596875,"end":13275.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13275.30659375,"end":13275.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13278.52971875,"end":13278.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13278.64784375,"end":13278.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13278.73221875,"end":13278.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13292.60346875,"end":13298.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13297.125968750002,"end":13310.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13310.929718750001,"end":13311.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13311.16596875,"end":13326.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13315.739093750002,"end":13316.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13325.189093750003,"end":13326.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13326.31971875,"end":13424.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13326.35346875,"end":13327.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13424.86971875,"end":13425.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13426.590968750003,"end":13443.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13444.00596875,"end":13462.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13453.152218750001,"end":13453.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13453.641593750002,"end":13455.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13455.649718750003,"end":13456.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13463.36159375,"end":13492.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13489.551593750002,"end":13513.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13514.72909375,"end":13517.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13515.79221875,"end":13529.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13521.614093750002,"end":13521.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13521.64784375,"end":13523.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13529.477843750003,"end":13532.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13529.54534375,"end":13529.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13531.92471875,"end":13531.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13533.12284375,"end":13538.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13537.78034375,"end":13552.579718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13551.43221875,"end":13562.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13561.742843750002,"end":13566.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13565.438468750002,"end":13565.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13565.45534375,"end":13566.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13566.974093750003,"end":13567.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13567.024718750003,"end":13567.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13567.109093750001,"end":13567.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13567.21034375,"end":13567.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13567.227218750002,"end":13567.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13567.24409375,"end":13655.517218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13567.26096875,"end":13567.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13567.41284375,"end":13567.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13655.770343750002,"end":13704.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13704.37034375,"end":13724.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13724.384093750003,"end":13729.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13727.30346875,"end":13738.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13729.176593750002,"end":13729.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13737.394718750002,"end":13737.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13737.63096875,"end":13737.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13738.42409375,"end":13783.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13740.364718750003,"end":13740.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13744.195343750001,"end":13744.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13744.22909375,"end":13744.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13744.33034375,"end":13744.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13744.364093750002,"end":13744.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13744.81971875,"end":13744.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13755.51846875,"end":13755.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13756.56471875,"end":13757.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13757.25659375,"end":13757.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13757.594093750002,"end":13757.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13757.644718750002,"end":13757.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13757.93159375,"end":13757.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13757.965343750002,"end":13758.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13758.20159375,"end":13758.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13783.73346875,"end":13785.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13786.500968750002,"end":13787.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13787.327843750001,"end":13808.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13817.01096875,"end":13818.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13818.985343750002,"end":13820.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13820.21721875,"end":13821.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13826.96721875,"end":13854.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13854.70971875,"end":13881.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13881.945968750002,"end":13883.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13883.59971875,"end":13899.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13899.968468750001,"end":13951.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13951.96034375,"end":13957.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13957.343468750001,"end":13959.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13960.161593750003,"end":13965.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13965.93284375,"end":13965.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13965.98346875,"end":13970.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13970.894093750001,"end":13971.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13971.602843750003,"end":13985.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13986.13221875,"end":13988.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13988.730968750002,"end":14005.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13990.23284375,"end":13993.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13993.472843750002,"end":13993.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13994.99159375,"end":13996.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13997.219093750002,"end":13998.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13999.395968750003,"end":13999.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14003.88471875,"end":14006.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14006.972843750002,"end":14007.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14007.040343750003,"end":14008.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14008.47471875,"end":14066.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14067.047843750002,"end":14067.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14068.161593750003,"end":14089.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14089.59284375,"end":14120.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14120.74409375,"end":14132.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14132.94471875,"end":14162.610968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14159.99534375,"end":14160.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14162.03721875,"end":14166.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14165.95221875,"end":14166.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14166.660968750002,"end":14166.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14166.69471875,"end":14166.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14166.72846875,"end":14168.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14166.74534375,"end":14167.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14168.11221875,"end":14170.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14168.145968750003,"end":14168.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14168.280968750001,"end":14168.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14171.672843750002,"end":14191.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14183.50221875,"end":14186.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14191.770968750003,"end":14203.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14203.49909375,"end":14210.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14206.82346875,"end":14208.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14208.03846875,"end":14208.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14208.08909375,"end":14208.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14210.40096875,"end":14210.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14210.586593750002,"end":14211.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14211.784718750001,"end":14212.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14213.387843750003,"end":14214.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14215.09221875,"end":14226.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14226.044093750003,"end":14226.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14226.094718750002,"end":14226.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14226.11159375,"end":14229.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14226.145343750002,"end":14226.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14229.368468750003,"end":14230.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14229.689093750003,"end":14231.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14231.680343750002,"end":14232.220343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14232.220343750003,"end":14235.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14235.86534375,"end":14240.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14240.67471875,"end":14257.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14257.515968750002,"end":14265.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14266.071593750003,"end":14271.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14271.99471875,"end":14274.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14275.859093750001,"end":14284.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14285.511593750001,"end":14285.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14285.96721875,"end":14285.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14286.220343750003,"end":14286.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14287.941593750002,"end":14291.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14290.590968750003,"end":14291.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14291.77221875,"end":14291.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14291.82284375,"end":14291.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14291.97471875,"end":14292.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14292.02534375,"end":14301.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14292.29534375,"end":14292.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14294.269718750002,"end":14295.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14301.036593750003,"end":14308.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14309.001593750003,"end":14312.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14310.790343750003,"end":14314.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14314.55346875,"end":14326.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14316.645968750003,"end":14317.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14317.65846875,"end":14319.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14322.906593750002,"end":14324.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14325.032843750003,"end":14332.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14327.074718750002,"end":14327.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14327.95221875,"end":14328.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14328.407843750003,"end":14328.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14331.816593750002,"end":14332.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14333.402843750002,"end":14339.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14333.453468750002,"end":14335.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14340.50721875,"end":14341.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14341.570343750001,"end":14344.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14345.417843750001,"end":14347.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14348.269718750002,"end":14353.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14350.63221875,"end":14352.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14353.112843750001,"end":14355.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14355.964718750001,"end":14356.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14357.348468750002,"end":14358.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14358.63096875,"end":14368.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14367.473468750002,"end":14369.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14369.19471875,"end":14370.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14370.747218750003,"end":14385.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14370.780968750001,"end":14371.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14384.550968750002,"end":14384.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14384.719718750002,"end":14384.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14384.83784375,"end":14384.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14385.023468750001,"end":14417.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14416.815968750001,"end":14420.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14418.149093750002,"end":14418.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14419.70159375,"end":14422.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14421.38909375,"end":14423.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14423.39721875,"end":14444.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14428.594718750002,"end":14428.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14444.507843750001,"end":14444.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14444.96346875,"end":14449.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14450.07659375,"end":14459.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14460.032843750003,"end":14460.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14460.99471875,"end":14464.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14465.972843750002,"end":14467.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14468.36909375,"end":14469.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14469.837218750003,"end":14494.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14494.930343750002,"end":14519.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14519.939093750003,"end":14520.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14521.339718750001,"end":14523.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14524.27596875,"end":14544.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14545.302218750003,"end":14553.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14553.43596875,"end":14555.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14556.355343750001,"end":14559.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14559.96659375,"end":14560.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14561.333468750003,"end":14564.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14565.36659375,"end":14570.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14571.019718750002,"end":14579.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14580.317843750003,"end":14592.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14593.14284375,"end":14612.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14611.92471875,"end":14612.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14612.02596875,"end":14612.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14612.987843750001,"end":14621.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14613.86534375,"end":14614.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14622.37034375,"end":14627.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14627.669093750003,"end":14640.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14640.12284375,"end":14649.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14647.159718750001,"end":14648.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14649.606593750003,"end":14653.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14654.04471875,"end":14657.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14657.85846875,"end":14668.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14661.28409375,"end":14662.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14669.164718750002,"end":14673.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14674.31159375,"end":14678.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14678.31096875,"end":14683.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14683.727843750003,"end":14700.923468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14700.923468750003,"end":14702.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14701.075343750003,"end":14702.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14702.762843750003,"end":14702.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14702.93159375,"end":14703.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14703.032843750003,"end":14703.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14703.269093750001,"end":14703.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14703.336593750002,"end":14703.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14703.74159375,"end":14704.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14704.36596875,"end":14708.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14704.41659375,"end":14704.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14709.411593750003,"end":14714.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14715.06471875,"end":14722.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14722.28721875,"end":14750.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14748.679718750001,"end":14750.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14750.13096875,"end":14758.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14758.534718750001,"end":14777.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14777.35034375,"end":14777.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14777.384093750003,"end":14779.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14777.839718750001,"end":14780.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14779.864718750003,"end":14782.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14781.535343750002,"end":14782.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14783.003468750001,"end":14785.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14785.04534375,"end":14790.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14789.73659375,"end":14791.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14790.985343750002,"end":14793.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14796.58784375,"end":14799.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14801.565968750001,"end":14803.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14810.25659375,"end":14811.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14811.809093750002,"end":14812.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14813.192843750003,"end":14814.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14814.441593750002,"end":14815.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14816.36534375,"end":14818.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14823.368468750003,"end":14823.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14824.60034375,"end":14826.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14826.70971875,"end":14828.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14829.224093750003,"end":14830.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14831.468468750001,"end":14834.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14834.92784375,"end":14836.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14836.547843750002,"end":14837.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14838.31971875,"end":14839.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14839.99034375,"end":14840.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14840.800343750001,"end":14841.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14841.829718750003,"end":14842.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14844.512843750003,"end":14845.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14846.26784375,"end":14847.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14846.36909375,"end":14846.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14847.027218750001,"end":14852.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14852.882843750001,"end":14857.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14858.60346875,"end":14862.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14863.649093750002,"end":14874.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14874.415343750003,"end":14896.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14896.909718750001,"end":14901.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14902.17471875,"end":14916.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14917.345343750003,"end":14918.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14920.855343750001,"end":14922.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14923.909718750001,"end":14925.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14926.15409375,"end":14931.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14932.144718750002,"end":14938.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14938.472843750002,"end":14949.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14950.09971875,"end":14966.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14958.520343750002,"end":14959.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14964.07221875,"end":14969.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14967.582218750002,"end":14967.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14969.55659375,"end":14975.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14974.281593750002,"end":14974.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14976.137843750003,"end":14979.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14980.407218750002,"end":14983.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14983.22534375,"end":14987.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14987.562218750001,"end":14989.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14989.789718750002,"end":14995.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14995.949093750001,"end":15010.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15010.90034375,"end":15042.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15043.23284375,"end":15046.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15046.65846875,"end":15058.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15058.94346875,"end":15062.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15063.617843750002,"end":15092.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15091.242218750001,"end":15095.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15095.96721875,"end":15104.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15104.759093750003,"end":15111.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15111.32346875,"end":15123.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15123.49034375,"end":15128.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15128.97471875,"end":15130.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15130.949093750001,"end":15162.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15159.88971875,"end":15160.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15162.74159375,"end":15293.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15293.92784375,"end":15309.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15309.942218750002,"end":15315.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15317.316593750002,"end":15369.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15369.81471875,"end":15372.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15372.76784375,"end":15376.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15376.547843750002,"end":15377.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15378.15096875,"end":15386.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15387.499718750001,"end":15399.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15399.362843750001,"end":15403.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15404.374718750001,"end":15409.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15409.724093750003,"end":15419.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15421.60409375,"end":15439.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15438.360968750003,"end":15442.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15443.22096875,"end":15470.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15468.921593750001,"end":15524.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15525.030968750001,"end":15529.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15530.363468750002,"end":15533.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15533.232218750003,"end":15537.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15537.72096875,"end":15538.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15539.560343750003,"end":15554.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15555.000968750002,"end":15564.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15564.61971875,"end":15569.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15569.547218750002,"end":15570.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15571.57221875,"end":15573.782843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15574.42409375,"end":15611.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15611.54909375,"end":15617.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15618.029093750003,"end":15619.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15619.83471875,"end":15633.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15633.419093750003,"end":15638.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15639.004718750002,"end":15639.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15639.055343750002,"end":15639.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15639.19034375,"end":15639.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15639.308468750001,"end":15648.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15649.281593750002,"end":15652.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15663.65909375,"end":15672.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15672.56909375,"end":15674.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15675.336593750002,"end":15677.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15679.11659375,"end":15687.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15687.621593750002,"end":15690.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15691.047218750002,"end":15696.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15697.29096875,"end":15721.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15722.164718750002,"end":15723.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15724.13909375,"end":15726.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15726.062843750002,"end":15726.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15726.079718750003,"end":15726.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15726.36659375,"end":15726.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15726.383468750002,"end":15726.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15726.40034375,"end":15726.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15726.552218750003,"end":15726.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15726.83909375,"end":15726.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15726.872843750003,"end":15858.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15859.898468750001,"end":15860.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15860.03346875,"end":15860.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15860.370968750001,"end":15860.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15860.607218750003,"end":15863.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15865.433468750001,"end":15868.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15868.04909375,"end":15869.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15870.10784375,"end":15878.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15879.55784375,"end":15883.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15891.640343750001,"end":15893.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15894.407843750003,"end":15895.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15901.191593750002,"end":15901.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15901.984718750002,"end":15902.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15903.13221875,"end":15942.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15942.29909375,"end":15959.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15960.254093750002,"end":15967.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15967.864718750003,"end":15974.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15975.222218750001,"end":15988.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15988.840343750002,"end":15990.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15990.86534375,"end":16019.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16021.476593750001,"end":16026.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16027.028468750003,"end":16029.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16029.610343750002,"end":16033.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16033.575968750003,"end":16048.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16048.67909375,"end":16059.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16059.90096875,"end":16065.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16065.43596875,"end":16084.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16085.63534375,"end":16117.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16118.22096875,"end":16119.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16120.02659375,"end":16123.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16124.144093750001,"end":16141.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16141.64346875,"end":16142.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16142.74034375,"end":16143.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16144.42784375,"end":16145.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16146.28409375,"end":16147.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16148.17409375,"end":16166.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16167.00659375,"end":16174.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16174.245968750001,"end":16176.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16177.047218750002,"end":16204.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16204.38471875,"end":16220.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16220.80409375,"end":16228.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16229.29221875,"end":16230.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16230.642218750003,"end":16265.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16265.99534375,"end":16266.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16266.231593750003,"end":16292.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16293.61971875,"end":16295.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16296.20159375,"end":16305.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16305.128468750001,"end":16309.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16310.44409375,"end":16314.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16315.30409375,"end":16317.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16318.274093750002,"end":16322.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16323.15096875,"end":16399.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16400.725343750004,"end":16401.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16403.138468750003,"end":16407.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16407.30659375,"end":16408.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16408.015343749998,"end":16410.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16410.850343750004,"end":16410.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16410.934718750003,"end":16411.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16411.00221875,"end":16411.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16411.20471875,"end":16412.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16411.390343749998,"end":16417.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16417.41471875,"end":16471.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16472.207843750002,"end":16478.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16480.240343750003,"end":16496.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16497.014093750004,"end":16519.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16519.33971875,"end":16546.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16546.64346875,"end":16551.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16552.00971875,"end":16615.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16615.898468749998,"end":16617.670343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16617.906593749998,"end":16619.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16619.71221875,"end":16620.319718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16628.976593749998,"end":16640.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16645.851593749998,"end":16649.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16649.02409375,"end":16650.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16650.96471875,"end":16650.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16650.998468750004,"end":16657.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16656.044093750003,"end":16656.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16668.531593749998,"end":16670.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16671.18096875,"end":16672.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16677.94784375,"end":16678.420343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16678.69034375,"end":16679.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16680.192218750002,"end":16701.741593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16702.467218750004,"end":16715.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16718.177843750003,"end":16722.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16722.75096875,"end":16729.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16727.49284375,"end":16727.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16727.50971875,"end":16727.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16727.982218750003,"end":16728.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16729.349093750003,"end":16732.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16732.26846875,"end":16736.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16733.770343750002,"end":16734.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16736.38596875,"end":16740.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16740.317843750003,"end":16741.397843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16742.005343750003,"end":16742.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16742.747843750003,"end":16745.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16744.68846875,"end":16744.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16744.755968750003,"end":16781.459093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16759.77471875,"end":16759.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16759.80846875,"end":16759.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16759.89284375,"end":16760.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16779.045968749997,"end":16779.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16781.49284375,"end":16793.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16793.42346875,"end":16795.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16796.19096875,"end":16797.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16796.241593749997,"end":16818.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16818.364718750003,"end":16818.803468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16819.19159375,"end":16824.608468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16826.312843749998,"end":16835.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16833.21471875,"end":16834.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16835.07096875,"end":16838.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16839.12096875,"end":16870.491593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16872.567218750002,"end":16895.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16881.37596875,"end":16881.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16896.209093750003,"end":16899.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16900.005968750003,"end":16903.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16903.76909375,"end":16905.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16905.96284375,"end":16907.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16908.561593749997,"end":16909.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16909.77659375,"end":16910.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16911.295343750004,"end":16962.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16914.18096875,"end":16916.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16916.357843750004,"end":16916.459093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16917.724718750003,"end":16919.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16962.27471875,"end":16962.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16962.544718750003,"end":17005.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17007.85409375,"end":17036.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17035.090343750002,"end":17035.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17036.997218750003,"end":17056.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17037.115343750003,"end":17038.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17048.99534375,"end":17049.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17050.36221875,"end":17050.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17056.55534375,"end":17059.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17068.08096875,"end":17068.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17069.02596875,"end":17076.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":17081.76659375,"end":17082.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17082.475343750004,"end":17118.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17121.23721875,"end":17122.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17131.193468750003,"end":17131.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17132.29034375,"end":17136.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17136.154718750004,"end":17143.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17140.64346875,"end":17141.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17143.545968749997,"end":17163.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17163.44159375,"end":17164.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17164.03221875,"end":17166.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17165.82096875,"end":17187.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17177.12721875,"end":17177.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17187.26909375,"end":17207.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17207.72159375,"end":17208.413468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17209.037843750004,"end":17226.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17227.178468750004,"end":17234.670968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17232.578468749998,"end":17232.882218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17234.755343750003,"end":17236.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17235.32909375,"end":17235.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17236.881593750004,"end":17237.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17236.93221875,"end":17238.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17238.11346875,"end":17238.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17238.434093750002,"end":17238.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17238.569093750004,"end":17238.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17238.687218749998,"end":17239.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17238.855968750002,"end":17238.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17239.56471875,"end":17255.663468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17243.02409375,"end":17243.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17252.30534375,"end":17252.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17252.33909375,"end":17252.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17256.929093749997,"end":17288.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":17288.29971875,"end":17336.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17293.78409375,"end":17294.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17298.18846875,"end":17298.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17298.20534375,"end":17298.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17310.068468750003,"end":17310.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17317.08846875,"end":17317.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17321.442218750002,"end":17321.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17322.809093750002,"end":17324.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17324.02409375,"end":17325.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17325.01971875,"end":17325.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17330.68971875,"end":17331.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17336.224718750003,"end":17412.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":17414.96346875,"end":17440.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17440.57971875,"end":17464.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":17441.085968749998,"end":17441.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17454.61971875,"end":17454.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17465.06534375,"end":17469.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17469.68909375,"end":17472.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17477.957843750002,"end":17479.476593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17479.662218750003,"end":17480.944718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17481.41721875,"end":17483.155343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17487.694718749997,"end":17552.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17552.309093750002,"end":17571.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17575.410968750002,"end":17583.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17583.848468750002,"end":17585.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17585.60346875,"end":17591.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17591.30721875,"end":17622.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17623.200968750003,"end":17644.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17644.750343749998,"end":17655.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17655.97221875,"end":17664.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17664.73034375,"end":17665.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17665.489718750003,"end":17665.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17666.08034375,"end":17670.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17670.552218750003,"end":17680.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17680.94721875,"end":17689.671593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17689.92471875,"end":17691.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17691.73034375,"end":17750.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17750.96159375,"end":17779.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17779.24409375,"end":17823.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17790.786593750003,"end":17792.609093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17792.86221875,"end":17793.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17821.33034375,"end":17821.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17822.49471875,"end":17823.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17823.74346875,"end":17823.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17823.96284375,"end":17835.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17824.553468750004,"end":17825.093468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17834.74596875,"end":17837.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17837.76659375,"end":17839.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17837.834093750003,"end":17838.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17838.390968749998,"end":17840.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17840.787218750003,"end":17849.764718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17841.124718749998,"end":17841.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17849.764718749997,"end":17849.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17849.89971875,"end":17856.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17856.34596875,"end":17867.078468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17857.797218749998,"end":17857.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17865.22221875,"end":17867.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17867.078468749998,"end":17867.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17867.09534375,"end":17867.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17867.11221875,"end":17889.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17867.95596875,"end":17869.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17875.24596875,"end":17875.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17889.99471875,"end":17896.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17896.94721875,"end":17900.187218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17901.030968749998,"end":17902.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17904.270968750003,"end":17905.047218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17906.76846875,"end":17907.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17907.62909375,"end":17910.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17917.93971875,"end":17919.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17919.84659375,"end":17920.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17920.504718750002,"end":17921.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":17926.15784375,"end":17926.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":17926.69784375,"end":17926.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17926.71471875,"end":17940.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17940.687218749998,"end":17940.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17941.02471875,"end":17984.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17985.372218750003,"end":17991.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17993.77596875,"end":17994.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17994.687218749998,"end":17996.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17996.155343749997,"end":17997.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17997.960968749998,"end":17998.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17999.547218749998,"end":18021.670343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18022.80096875,"end":18024.015968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18024.100343750004,"end":18024.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18025.281593749998,"end":18069.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18071.83971875,"end":18072.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18073.08846875,"end":18082.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18073.122218750003,"end":18073.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18082.90971875,"end":18083.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18084.647843749997,"end":18087.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18085.170968749997,"end":18088.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18088.630343750003,"end":18091.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18092.15721875,"end":18112.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18111.867218749998,"end":18119.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18114.31409375,"end":18114.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18118.95471875,"end":18121.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18119.17409375,"end":18121.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18121.755968750003,"end":18140.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18140.60534375,"end":18159.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18142.140968749998,"end":18142.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18159.89346875,"end":18170.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18171.520343750002,"end":18224.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18224.84534375,"end":18227.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18228.42284375,"end":18234.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18233.29971875,"end":18249.584093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18239.71221875,"end":18240.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18240.927218750003,"end":18241.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18249.786593750003,"end":18251.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18250.748468750004,"end":18259.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18258.62909375,"end":18259.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18259.793468750002,"end":18273.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18262.037843750004,"end":18262.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18262.17284375,"end":18262.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18273.124718749998,"end":18273.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18273.310343750003,"end":18274.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18275.36909375,"end":18289.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18289.780343749997,"end":18293.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18297.12096875,"end":18298.960343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18299.280968749998,"end":18301.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18304.444718749997,"end":18319.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18316.965968750003,"end":18317.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18319.277843750002,"end":18322.686593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18322.905968749998,"end":18342.092843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18341.755343750003,"end":18341.890343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18342.97034375,"end":18366.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18366.662843750004,"end":18371.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18371.640968749998,"end":18373.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18373.88534375,"end":18374.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18375.47159375,"end":18379.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18380.567843750003,"end":18381.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18381.98534375,"end":18393.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18393.460343749997,"end":18416.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18416.106593750003,"end":18427.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18427.96971875,"end":18434.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18434.31471875,"end":18438.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18439.664093749998,"end":18441.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18442.22909375,"end":18445.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18445.48596875,"end":18445.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18446.093468749998,"end":18451.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18452.286593750003,"end":18455.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18455.762843750003,"end":18458.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18458.80034375,"end":18460.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18461.71971875,"end":18467.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18467.895968750003,"end":18468.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18468.70596875,"end":18470.342843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18471.068468750003,"end":18473.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18473.02596875,"end":18483.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18484.01159375,"end":18487.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18487.97721875,"end":18492.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18492.41534375,"end":18513.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18513.50909375,"end":18513.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18513.82971875,"end":18535.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18536.273468749998,"end":18555.983468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18556.422218749998,"end":18558.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18559.375343749998,"end":18560.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18561.40034375,"end":18570.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18570.968468749998,"end":18576.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18571.272218750004,"end":18571.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18576.672218749998,"end":18582.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18582.47721875,"end":18582.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18582.51096875,"end":18583.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18582.544718750003,"end":18598.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18597.310343750003,"end":18597.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18598.96409375,"end":18622.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18600.02721875,"end":18600.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18623.449718750002,"end":18629.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18630.08159375,"end":18632.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18632.781593749998,"end":18645.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18644.762843750003,"end":18660.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18660.96284375,"end":18662.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18662.98784375,"end":18675.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18673.09596875,"end":18675.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18675.762218750002,"end":18678.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18678.56346875,"end":18678.749093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18678.749093749997,"end":18683.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18683.94659375,"end":18696.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18697.56471875,"end":18700.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18701.817218750002,"end":18706.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18706.86284375,"end":18709.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18718.75971875,"end":18722.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18719.552843750003,"end":18719.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18719.62034375,"end":18719.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18722.37096875,"end":18724.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18724.514093750004,"end":18741.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18741.77721875,"end":18859.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18858.062843749998,"end":18875.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18874.296593749998,"end":18883.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18879.91596875,"end":18880.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18880.725968749997,"end":18884.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18883.476593749998,"end":18883.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18884.65784375,"end":18886.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18886.935968750004,"end":18895.170968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18895.170968750004,"end":18895.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18895.40721875,"end":19024.686593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19025.04096875,"end":19040.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19039.013468750003,"end":19049.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19050.015968749998,"end":19058.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19059.398468749998,"end":19066.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19063.600343750004,"end":19063.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19066.030343750004,"end":19066.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19067.12721875,"end":19070.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19070.92409375,"end":19071.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19071.58221875,"end":19077.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19076.72909375,"end":19101.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19102.193468750003,"end":19108.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19109.365343750003,"end":19109.382218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19109.382218749997,"end":19109.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19109.500343749998,"end":19110.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19110.023468749998,"end":19114.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19114.664093749998,"end":19119.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19120.48596875,"end":19158.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19191.765968749998,"end":19192.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19223.84534375,"end":19224.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19255.536593750003,"end":19255.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19342.965968750003,"end":19343.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23203.62846875,"end":23222.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23224.09784375,"end":23227.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23227.97909375,"end":23232.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23233.66596875,"end":23234.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23242.812218749998,"end":23243.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23244.465968750003,"end":23246.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23247.14909375,"end":23253.139718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23253.73034375,"end":23254.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23255.147843750005,"end":23256.936593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23257.240343750003,"end":23263.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23264.47971875,"end":23266.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23267.365343750003,"end":23269.812218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23270.14971875,"end":23273.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23276.19096875,"end":23280.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23281.01721875,"end":23284.139093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23284.29096875,"end":23285.303468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23285.97846875,"end":23292.677843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23292.30659375,"end":23313.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23315.07096875,"end":23316.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23317.652843750002,"end":23318.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23318.631593750004,"end":23322.529718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23318.66534375,"end":23320.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23322.630968750003,"end":23322.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23322.69846875,"end":23324.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23325.33096875,"end":23326.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23327.86221875,"end":23370.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23370.218468749998,"end":23384.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23385.10221875,"end":23392.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23393.421593749998,"end":23394.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23394.83909375,"end":23394.889718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23395.66596875,"end":23395.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23395.96971875,"end":23396.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23396.71221875,"end":23452.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23452.163468750005,"end":23452.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23452.382843749998,"end":23453.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23454.52596875,"end":23473.358468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23474.15159375,"end":23507.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23507.02409375,"end":23515.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23516.828468749998,"end":23557.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23557.395968750003,"end":23575.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23576.02596875,"end":23576.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23577.240968750004,"end":23593.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23593.72784375,"end":23648.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23648.031593749998,"end":23648.639093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23648.639093750004,"end":23648.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23648.70659375,"end":23648.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23648.80784375,"end":23648.875343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23649.51659375,"end":23649.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23649.53346875,"end":23659.725968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23656.36784375,"end":23656.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23656.435343750003,"end":23656.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23656.452218750004,"end":23656.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23656.570343749998,"end":23656.671593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23660.046593749998,"end":23720.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23721.26909375,"end":23721.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23722.568468750003,"end":23731.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23735.41034375,"end":23735.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23736.051593750002,"end":23738.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23738.684093750002,"end":23747.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23748.16784375,"end":23815.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23815.85346875,"end":23829.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23829.65721875,"end":23832.475343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23833.90971875,"end":23834.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23834.382218750005,"end":23834.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23834.73659375,"end":23885.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23886.171593749998,"end":23887.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23888.061593750004,"end":23901.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23902.32096875,"end":23906.522843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23906.809718750003,"end":23908.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23909.695343749998,"end":23910.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23911.703468749998,"end":23912.007218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23912.78346875,"end":23913.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23913.897218750004,"end":23913.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23916.614093750002,"end":23923.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23924.140343749998,"end":23936.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23937.79221875,"end":23941.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23941.90971875,"end":23943.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23944.154093750003,"end":23946.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23946.600968750005,"end":23956.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23957.350343750004,"end":24003.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24003.773468749998,"end":24014.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24015.164093749998,"end":24020.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24021.40784375,"end":24022.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24024.59721875,"end":24041.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24041.607218750003,"end":24080.335343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24081.567218750002,"end":24083.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24083.355968750002,"end":24106.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24112.53284375,"end":24114.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24119.72159375,"end":24121.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24121.999718749998,"end":24123.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24131.29784375,"end":24132.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24135.499718749998,"end":24145.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24146.80596875,"end":24147.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24148.341593750003,"end":24172.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24172.03409375,"end":24176.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24176.640968749998,"end":24179.155343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24179.22284375,"end":24186.647843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24181.63596875,"end":24183.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24185.787218750003,"end":24194.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24194.865968750004,"end":24195.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24195.270968750003,"end":24197.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24195.726593749998,"end":24196.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24197.44784375,"end":24197.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24197.76846875,"end":24198.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24197.835968749998,"end":24198.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24198.038468750005,"end":24231.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24198.71346875,"end":24198.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24232.514093750004,"end":24241.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24241.50846875,"end":24242.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24242.89221875,"end":24245.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24245.288468750005,"end":24290.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24291.255968750003,"end":24307.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24293.601593749998,"end":24294.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24295.66034375,"end":24296.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24307.03409375,"end":24307.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24307.77659375,"end":24308.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24308.09721875,"end":24346.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24346.622843750003,"end":24361.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24362.654093750003,"end":24369.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24369.55596875,"end":24370.686593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24370.686593750004,"end":24370.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24370.73721875,"end":24370.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24371.226593749998,"end":24371.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24371.46284375,"end":24373.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24371.47971875,"end":24371.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24373.082843750002,"end":24373.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24373.13346875,"end":24373.319093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24373.319093750004,"end":24373.420343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24374.027843750002,"end":24442.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24400.45409375,"end":24400.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24400.58909375,"end":24400.842218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24400.842218750004,"end":24400.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24423.859718749998,"end":24424.686593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24431.67284375,"end":24432.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24441.81471875,"end":24471.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24471.98721875,"end":24479.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24481.47096875,"end":24482.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24483.68159375,"end":24484.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24484.76159375,"end":24500.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24504.97784375,"end":24505.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24505.703468749998,"end":24507.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24507.576593750004,"end":24507.593468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24507.593468749998,"end":24507.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24508.87596875,"end":24508.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24508.97721875,"end":24509.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24509.027843750002,"end":24509.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24509.97284375,"end":24510.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24510.023468749998,"end":24513.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24513.85409375,"end":24515.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24516.16596875,"end":24516.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24517.33034375,"end":24523.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24524.350343750004,"end":24525.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24525.36284375,"end":24527.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24529.834718750004,"end":24531.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24532.450343750003,"end":24533.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24533.90159375,"end":24534.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24534.660968750002,"end":24536.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24537.090968750003,"end":24537.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24538.272218750004,"end":24554.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24555.61971875,"end":24587.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24589.04909375,"end":24589.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24589.842218750004,"end":24591.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24591.529718750004,"end":24593.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24594.145343750002,"end":24594.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24594.85409375,"end":24598.077218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24598.97159375,"end":24614.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24602.481593750003,"end":24603.460343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24603.47721875,"end":24603.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24614.918468750002,"end":24615.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24616.521593750003,"end":24621.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24621.820343749998,"end":24621.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24622.410968750002,"end":24622.444718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24622.46159375,"end":24622.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24622.69784375,"end":24622.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24622.967843750004,"end":24623.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24626.83221875,"end":24630.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24630.61221875,"end":24631.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24641.125343749998,"end":24641.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24641.631593750004,"end":24641.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24642.64409375,"end":24646.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24645.39471875,"end":24645.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24647.115968750004,"end":24648.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24651.82409375,"end":24653.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24653.967218750004,"end":24655.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24654.10221875,"end":24654.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24656.717843750004,"end":24658.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24661.00409375,"end":24663.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24661.59471875,"end":24663.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24664.092218750004,"end":24665.459093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24666.03284375,"end":24667.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24670.25159375,"end":24671.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24670.740968750004,"end":24671.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":24671.65221875,"end":24671.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24674.723468750002,"end":24676.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24675.398468749998,"end":24676.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":24679.178468750004,"end":24682.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24679.63409375,"end":24680.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":24680.039093749998,"end":24682.40159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1606.124,"end":1606.246,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":1686.648,"end":1714.549,"text":"大家早安立法院第十一届第五会起教育及文化委员会第四次全体委员会议会议开始出席委员十四人已达法定人数现在开会那本次的会议呢是三次一次会首先我们来进行报告事项请议事人员宣读上次会议的议事录"},{"start":1715.956,"end":1715.976,"text":"審查"},{"start":1744.056,"end":1772.861,"text":"委員廖偉祥等18人你具學校衛生法第22條第23條之3條文修正草案案等37案本次會議有委員陳培宇等17人提出質詢軍經教育部政務次長張廖萬堅及相關人員及其答覆說明另有委員楊瓊英許新穎提出書面質詢決議一報告及詢答完畢二委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":1774.161,"end":1793.191,"text":"3.對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆不問請相關機關建樹與樹面答覆4.學校衛生法相關修正草案令定期繼續審查 宣讀完畢好 請問各位委員 上次會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏的地方好 議事錄確定"},{"start":1796.004,"end":1821.14,"text":"这次会议的议程有两个第一个邀请教育部部长郑英耀列席报告业务概况并被质询第二个部分审查委员武力华、塞贝克、达霍夫扎克等17人拟据教师法第25条条文修正草案等14案首先我们先来介绍在场的委员"},{"start":1822.861,"end":1839.764,"text":"好 第一位委員是羅志強委員 謝謝第二位委員 蔡春綢委員第三位委員 葛如君委員第四位委員 林怡瑾委員"},{"start":1843.277,"end":1861.77,"text":"謝謝各位委員接著我們來介紹與會的官員因為今天是第一次做業務報告所以我們全部都一起並介紹首先來介紹教育部部長鄭英耀政務次長張廖萬堅政務次長劉國偉常務次長朱俊彰"},{"start":1872.862,"end":1901.53,"text":"綜合規劃司司長陳素燕高教師廖高賢司長技職司楊玉慧司長中生司梁學正司長國際教育司李玉娟司長詩意司吳小霞司長資訊科技司葉家宏司長"},{"start":1904.472,"end":1918.861,"text":"學生事務特殊教育司許家倩司長秘書處杜國正處長人事處林建章處長政風處邱蒼林處長會計處劉家偉處長統計處田玉霞處長法治處汪康定副處長"},{"start":1932.353,"end":1960.196,"text":"私校退府儲蓄監理會賴俊能執行秘書國遣署彭副原署長清發署陳雪玉署長國教院林從一院長行政院人事總處給予福利處曾益群副處長全序部林戴帆專門委員"},{"start":1962.409,"end":1962.749,"text":"好 以上 謝謝"},{"start":1989.574,"end":2008,"text":"那我們現在要來做提案說明因為今天我們有安排教師法的第25條那我們這邊就依委員到場的先後順序來安排那第一位我們先請台灣民眾黨黨團的代表蔡春籌委員請主席"},{"start":2019.404,"end":2035.323,"text":"各位同仁大家好依據教師法第25條現行規定教師若因案停聘事後後判回復復任依法只能補發本薪"},{"start":2037.042,"end":2052.151,"text":"但我們都知道學術研究家級以及地域家級都是屬於教師待遇條例法定家級的項目為教師薪級的一部分"},{"start":2052.811,"end":2059.216,"text":"如果只補花本心等於讓恢復聘任的教師平白承受經濟懲罰非常的不公平因此本席代表台灣民眾黨黨團提出兩項修法第一修正第25條明定"},{"start":2072.525,"end":2093.055,"text":"為受處分而恢復互認的教師除本心外必須一併補發停聘期間的學術研究加級以及地域加級同時增訂過度條款讓目前尚未結案的停聘事件也能夠一體適用不讓教師"},{"start":2099.066,"end":2117.517,"text":"第二 修正第53條 明訂本次修正條文至公布日實行 跳過等待的一個空窗期即時保障教師權益 落實程序正義 完整保障教師合法的權益"},{"start":2119.559,"end":2146.539,"text":"本席身為退休教師深知教師是百人素人的一個責任跟辛勞要有幸福的教師才會有幸福的學生對於提升學校教育還有學生受教品質教師權益的提議本席都敬表尊重跟支持請各位委員教育部共同支持本案謝謝"},{"start":2149.165,"end":2160.678,"text":"謝謝蔡春雄委員的提案發言那接下來是羅志強委員待會依序是葛如君委員林倩琪委員林怡瑾委員葉元芝委員請羅志強委員"},{"start":2166.825,"end":2187.44,"text":"主席大家早安台灣這幾年不只是面臨少子化事實上我們的教育現場也出現了教師荒那承載教育親子溝通跟培育下一世代的重責大人在教師身上事實上我最近就是有開始一一拜訪我選區裡的學校"},{"start":2189.264,"end":2208.283,"text":"每一個校長跟我講的第一件事情都是教師荒這一次我們來討論有關於教師待遇條例的部分本席提出的草案就是要回復跟維護我們復聘教師的薪資權益"},{"start":2210.405,"end":2238.484,"text":"教師待遇條例第二條明定教師之待遇分本薪加給跟獎金那薪給是指本薪與加給合計之給予那且於該法中第六條另有明定教師之薪給以月計之並按月給付因此可以得知教師之薪給因為經常性的薪資為待遇的一部分與執行職務之津貼有所差別"},{"start":2239.184,"end":2253.683,"text":"但是現在的教師法25條針對配合接受調查而受暫時停聘的教師調查後未受解聘或停聘處分並回復聘任者代表因案暫停"},{"start":2255.265,"end":2272.624,"text":"停聘的教師並無不適應的情形如果只補發本心 而非經常性的心急那在校園爛樹的情況惡意日益惡化的情況之下那對副職教師來講的話其實是很不公平的"},{"start":2273.124,"end":2293.803,"text":"所以雖然停聘期間教師沒有教學的事實但是並非教師拒絕或怠惰教學的產生的所以責任不應該有教師負擔因此我們認為現行法規顯然有違公平正義希望透過這次修法能夠真正保障教師合理的薪資權益以上 謝謝"},{"start":2296.378,"end":2303.131,"text":"好謝謝羅志強委員的提案說明接下來有請葛如君委員下一位林倩琪委員"},{"start":2310.407,"end":2324.743,"text":"主席各位在場的立委同仁夜席的官員以及媒體朋友大家早安首先感謝趙偉我們今天安排這個教師法第25條的巡大以及審查本席過去也是教師那現在呢也持續的"},{"start":2325.384,"end":2341.887,"text":"希望能够跟教育界有更多的连结本席提出教师法第25条修正案一方面是在处理教师在停聘期间的待遇问题但另外一方面它更关系到我们如何用一个更公平的制度留住愿意投入教育现场的人才"},{"start":2342.688,"end":2367.785,"text":"那根据教育部在2025年开学前的统计全国3303所公立国中小一度有高达1429名的代理教师缺儿即使到了8月底仍然还有412名的缺儿没有补齐甚至有学校公开甄选教师超过40次直到开学了还找不到人而且缺儿的问题还不只出现在偏乡连台北"},{"start":2368.385,"end":2386.656,"text":"高雄桃园这些都会区都一样面临招募困难的情况这代表我们的教育体制啊必须要通盘的检讨改善首先要做的就是如何挽留第一线教师的师资还有教育的人才那目前一线教师所感受到的必须要讲"},{"start":2387.136,"end":2415.712,"text":"是越来越不友善的教学环境所有的一线教师不仅承担了高压高风险的工作条件结果在制度上竟然还得不到应有的保障现行的教师待遇条例第二条就明文规定教师待遇是由本薪加给以及奖金所组成同法第四条也明定教师的薪给本来就是本薪加上加给而且应按月给付"},{"start":2416.452,"end":2442.13,"text":"換句話說對於教師來講加給不是時有時無的獎勵而是教師們法定薪資待遇的一部分那現行的教師法第25條規定教師如果因為調查而被停聘最後證明沒有被解聘沒有被終局停聘而回復聘任目前只能補發停聘期間的本薪或者年工薪"},{"start":2442.91,"end":2469.088,"text":"教师待遇条例第19条也是采用相同的做法只补发了本心没有把加急给纳入这就产生一个明显不公平的现象明明最后证明了教师是没有问题的不是可规则的一方却还是要由教师自行承受停聘薪期间的部分薪资的损失这对于学校与教师之间的风险"},{"start":2470.309,"end":2485.798,"text":"還有損失明顯的不平等本席要強調今天有12個不分黨派的提案版本顯見是為教師要來爭取應有的薪資待遇是跨黨派的共識那我們要求的就是如果最後證明教師是被停聘"},{"start":2487.379,"end":2514.74,"text":"证明教师被解聘没有被终局停聘那么制度就应该要完整的去回复这位教师的薪资权益因为一个法治的社会不能让无可规则的人在程序走完以后还要继续为制度的成本买单我想最后本席要再次强调今天审查教师法第25条的修法不是只为了老师个人权益的问题整体来说还是要为了维持整个教育体系的稳定"},{"start":2515.541,"end":2542.432,"text":"今天年輕人為什麼不願意進入教育的現場除了工作的壓力行政負擔很重以外還有一個很重要的原因就這份工作到底有沒有辦法提供給他們人性的制度友善的保障如果一個制度連最基本的待遇回覆都做不到連最基本的符合法律條文的待遇回覆都做不到的話那我們要如何能夠邀請優秀的人才長期投入教職"},{"start":2543.152,"end":2566.97,"text":"我们本来就应该要用更合理的制度让真正愿意教学愿意陪伴孩子成长的教师感受到国家制度真正的友善地方跟他们站在一起让制度也有正义让教师也有尊严让学校也留作助人最后真正受益的还是我们的孩子跟下一代这是本席提出教师法第25条修正草案最重要的原因恳请大家一起支持谢谢"},{"start":2567.771,"end":2574.869,"text":"好谢谢葛如君委员接下来有请林倩琪委员做提案说明下一位林一锦委员"},{"start":2585.342,"end":2606.801,"text":"主席媒体朋友还有我们福利图人大家早安大家好那本席过去在大学担任专任的教师那么在中小学的这个教育现场也多所接触在这个工作上呢立法院的工作上也有许多的这个教师还有学校反映目前教学的一个状况"},{"start":2607.661,"end":2627.967,"text":"所以我們在維持整個教育現場的一個穩定的情況下本席在今天針對教師法的第25條來提出修正主要的目的是在對於現行的制度對教師停聘期間權益保障不足的這個問題然後回復制度應有的公平性"},{"start":2628.627,"end":2647.324,"text":"那么现行的规定教师在接受调查而遭停聘的期间可能不发给待遇或仅发给半数然后当调查结果确认未受解聘或者是终局停聘的一个处分的时候来恢复聘任"},{"start":2647.864,"end":2670.127,"text":"可是只有補發本薪但是教師的薪資結構不是只有本薪我想這個大家都很清楚還包括學術研究加給跟職務的加給然後也會進一步來影響考核獎金年終獎金及兼任行政職務的休假等相關的權益那在過程當中可能都沒有辦法被考量進去"},{"start":2670.988,"end":2685.555,"text":"所以換言之呢即使教師最終沒有受到任何的實體的處分那我們教師仍然必須要自己承擔停聘期間所產生的各項薪資與附隨權益的損失那這樣子的制度安排顯然權益"},{"start":2686.495,"end":2707.96,"text":"在这个平衡的原则下是不服的所以教师在停聘期间没有办法提供劳务不可归咎于教师本人那依民法的一个相关规定在不可归咎于受雇人之情形下人应该保障其报酬请求权因此在确认教师无需受处分并恢复"},{"start":2708.7,"end":2723.095,"text":"聘任之後呢那理應要回復至未停聘前之完整權益的一個狀態那本次的修法來明定教師於停聘後經確認未受處分者除了應該要補發本薪以外"},{"start":2724.056,"end":2746.625,"text":"而且要補發加給並恢復考核獎金年終獎金以及相關休假等權益事項使整體的一個勞動條件得以完整回復那麼本案的一個提案呢最主要是針對來回應制度性風險不應該由個人來承擔基本原則所以敬請各位委員來支持本案以上謝謝"},{"start":2747.805,"end":2757.024,"text":"好谢谢林倩琪委员接下来我们请林一金委员做提案说明下一位业员之委员林一金委员请"},{"start":2763.613,"end":2781.695,"text":"謝主席各位同仁我想大家今天感謝教委來安排教師法的修正本席這次提出教師法25條修正草案主要源自於讓很多老師教苦連天的校園爛樹現象"},{"start":2783.797,"end":2790.623,"text":"那從前年解聘辦法修正後在一年間校士會議的投訴案件高達1372件有超過八成的案件有受理那根據調查資料當時已經完成調查的769件當中不成立的案件有382件 佔比49.7%"},{"start":2810.22,"end":2834.816,"text":"那達到停解聘的只有3.3%那雖然校士會議的主要用意是要處理不適應老師的停解聘的事宜但卻演變成這個小案大辦的現象那教會部發現這個爛訴現象後有著手修改這個校士會議的相關規定那教師的這個停聘接受調查那事後如果這個"},{"start":2836.617,"end":2860.498,"text":"結果判定責任不歸屬教師那也應該有所謂的冤案補償那因此本席提出這個教師法第25條的修正案就是對於教師停聘是由消滅或調查後未受解聘或終局停聘的處分並回復聘任者除了現行規定補發本席以外也應該要補發家籍"},{"start":2863.18,"end":2877.589,"text":"教師的待遇分為本薪、家籍及獎金家籍又分成職務家籍、學術研究家籍、地域家籍所以如果老師被停聘接受調查調查結果責任不歸屬老師的時候"},{"start":2880.891,"end":2894.647,"text":"沒有給老師補發這段時間的這個加給那等於就是補發了半薪而已那加上停職是屬於非自願的停職工作所以經調查後如果沒有受不利的處分"},{"start":2896.188,"end":2914.664,"text":"來就應該要補發教師原來他應該得到的薪資所以本席認為教育部應該要和老師跟學校的團體充分來討論這個補發的範圍我想最低的限度一定是要把學術研究加急"},{"start":2915.785,"end":2944.117,"text":"補發給老師因為學術研究佳績是老師教學研究工作本來就有的佳績這屬於固定心思的一部分所以我們逐條討論的時候我就還要再請教育部再來做詳細的評估跟說明那可以做到怎樣的程度當然最大的重點就是務必要讓受到冤屈的老師們得到合理的補償制度以上敬請支持 謝謝主席"},{"start":2945.817,"end":2953.939,"text":"謝謝林益謹委員接下來請葉元芝委員做提案說明最後一位張雅琳委員葉元芝委員請大家都知道現在教室荒非常嚴重不是說代理老師非常難找有的學校的40幾招50幾招都找不到代理老師那現在狀況是正式老師考上了都不報到那所以到底為什麼會面臨這個"},{"start":2979.635,"end":3005.615,"text":"為什麼面臨這個狀況其實有非常多的研究指出就是因為現在老師的教學環境非常不友善第一個老師被迫做非常多跟教學無關的行政工作所以大家一直在呼籲要做行政減量但是依然各部會各個公家機關還是會要求老師做非常多跟教學無關的宣導然後還包括要辦非常多的公文然後做各式各樣的評鑑"},{"start":3006.776,"end":3032.948,"text":"所以讓他們產生了非常大的跟教學無關的壓力第二個就是濫訴的情況之前因為校事會議引爆很大的風波其實大家都有發現校事會議的召開其實很多時候老師最後都是是被不賴的而且並沒有人家指控的這樣可是他卻進入了漫長的調查期大概最長可以調查四個月"},{"start":3033.988,"end":3062.647,"text":"然後最新的一項調查指出親子殿下做的他說現在近六成的教師五年內想要離職更可怕的是呢這些教師呢他超過六成是不支持他的下一代投入老師的行業而且他也不希望學生繼續當老師換言之這個教師的環境現在是處於一種急劇惡化的這個螺旋當中所以希望教育部各方"},{"start":3064.188,"end":3092.857,"text":"擺散讓老師覺得做老師是值得被尊重是有榮譽感的然後還有一項調查指出啊 他說95.8%的老師他即使覺得自己是秉持著教育專業但是還是擔心被誤解被隨便的控訴然後認為呢 校園現在存在一種多做多做少做少錯的氛圍"},{"start":3099.005,"end":3123.059,"text":"其實受害的是學生所以其實真正受害的是學生因為學生們也沒有辦法得到一個好的教學所以這個問題是急需解決的那我們今天所討論的教師法第25條它只是環老師一個最起碼的公道而已"},{"start":3123.519,"end":3144.292,"text":"因為如果這些老師他被他被隨便投訴投訴之後進入調查區然後中間被停聘最後還他清白其實他在過程當中已經受到很大的煎熬了然後即便是最後恢復他的就是說他沒有這樣的問題要恢復他的聘任可是過程當中他所受的傷害已經難以彌補那如果你還把他"},{"start":3147.334,"end":3169.694,"text":"這段期間應該領的加級把它扣掉的話我覺得是非常非常不公道的所以我們今天這個法律我們今天的修法就是希望能夠把加級一起因為現行狀況之下是只回復本薪和年功薪嘛沒有加級那我們的修法是希望能夠把加級一併回復除了是讓老師得到應有的待遇之外"},{"start":3170.054,"end":3187.9,"text":"更是對老師有一個最起碼的尊重所以呢希望一起來努力然後除了這個之外還希望大家一起共同把老師所面臨的不友善的環境一併把它改善謝謝好謝謝葉園珠委員最後一位有請張雅令委員做提案說明請"},{"start":3194.808,"end":3218.433,"text":"謝謝主席我想大家今天應該都引用了蠻多2026年親子天下的最新的教師幸福感的調查那這一份調查裡面其實的資料非常 蒐集的資料非常的完整那我也希望教育部可以仔細的來看看我們的教師面對了一個怎麼樣艱辛的一份工作因為他們的幸福感只有五成一份只有幸福感五成的工作卻要面臨到非常多的爛訴或者是很多"},{"start":3219.353,"end":3235.998,"text":"管教上面的包含最近大家有看到一些对于老师的一些批评等等的我想这个是我们今天大家应该要一起来关注的事情那今天我特别来讲一下针对于教师法第25条的修正那我认为这几件事情的核心说法的核心就是追求一个公平而已"},{"start":3236.838,"end":3253.57,"text":"我們的制度現在是一個老師如果被停聘但是最後調查結果是沒有問題也沒有被解聘也沒有被終局停聘的時候那他可以回來任教那會補給他這個停聘期間的一個本性可是卻沒有補給他學術佳績"},{"start":3254.932,"end":3269.874,"text":"我認為這樣是非常的不合理的對於許多沒有兼任行政職務的那也沒有在偏遠地區服務的老師來說他的固定薪資就是本薪加上學術加級這不是額外的獎勵這是他日常穩定的收入結果他現在"},{"start":3270.635,"end":3288.095,"text":"調查結果也沒有做錯事情好朋友已經證明了清白我必須說真的是蠻艱辛的得到了清白之後卻只有補給他一半的薪資另外一半直接消失那我認為這就是一個制度上的扣薪而且是對於一個沒有做錯事情的人來扣薪"},{"start":3289.496,"end":3315.369,"text":"那從法律上來說民法第487條也講得非常清楚如果不是受僱人的責任沒有提供勞務也不代表他不能請求報酬老師在停聘期間沒有上課不是他自己造成的他也沒有補上課的義務那為什麼報酬要打折所以這次還是回到我在講的就是我追求的就是一個公平而已不只本心連同學術加級要一併的補發"},{"start":3317.19,"end":3340.055,"text":"我們不能夠讓一個已經證明自己沒有問題的老師還要獨自承受損失謝謝謝謝張雅玲委員那我們所有的提案說明到這邊告一個段落那這一次的會議呢採一併報告綜合詢答現在我們進行報告請教育部鄭英耀部長報告報告時間15分鐘請"},{"start":3349.537,"end":3374.539,"text":"主席各位委員大家早安大家好本人今日應邀列席貴委員會就本部主管教育全國教育青年發展等業務以及委員所提案修正教師法第245條發給教師暫時停聘期間之待意提出報告進行各位委員會議指教以下僅就責要報告11項教育措施以及未來規劃重點相關內容"},{"start":3376.025,"end":3396.042,"text":"備有詳細的一個書面資料另外第12項分析發給教師暫時停聘期間之大疫疫情委員一併指正首先在學權教育方面為提供學權兒童幼兒能夠在一個更安全更舒適的環境中快樂成長我們在114年補助2955元改善教學設施設備另外也投入了2.2億"},{"start":3403.968,"end":3428.61,"text":"鼓勵幼兒開始喜歡閱讀也添夠適合的圖書其次在充裕幼兒研師之鼓勵教保員在持進修取得幼兒研教師資格持續辦理幼教專班及幼兒研教師學士後教育學問班另外增加9任議員也積極提升教保服務人員的工作條件"},{"start":3429.831,"end":3447.484,"text":"調整公立幼稚園企業禁用教保服務人員之薪資基準每人每月提高3%另外也明定公共化教保服務機構具幼兒園教師資格之教保員其教保費補助比照教師職務加給額度資給此外增加"},{"start":3452.247,"end":3478.784,"text":"評價教保的一個就學機會提供全國約五十二萬個評價就學機會並為提供育兒家庭臨時支持措施臨時照顧服務目前公立幼兒園延長照顧在一百一十四年開辦以來已經達到九成其次在國民教育方面為確保兒少權益及教學品質持續精進校園是建了一個處理會議制度"},{"start":3480.424,"end":3484.958,"text":"建構更健全有效且符合公平正義原則的教師管理體系"},{"start":3486.187,"end":3511.702,"text":"體制另外展現對教師專業的付出體恤教學現場長期累積的工作負荷提高導師職務家及終點會增加行政工作獎金追溯從民國14年9月1日起生效此外也持續提供師師工會生的生活支持提高專業成長會及生活津貼其實在充裕"},{"start":3513.356,"end":3536.799,"text":"偏眼地區事實方面我們也開辦偏眼地區學士學校學士或學問班總共有500提供530人修讀為教育注入新的一個人才另外也引導教師導入數位科技以人工智慧的一個應用此外本部也跟運動部持續合作精進學校體育"},{"start":3538.12,"end":3542.991,"text":"交協品質並補助290所高級中等學校以下修建運動"},{"start":3544.967,"end":3571.374,"text":"場地及充實體育器材設備第三在技職教育方面聚焦六大核心戰略產業五大信賴產業政策的推動所需要的一個技術人才本部核定離岸風電電動車智慧電網無人機等20座新興產業人才培育基地並擴充53所技專校園AI教學設備培育跨校跨領域學生"},{"start":3572.074,"end":3592.376,"text":"具備AI技術因為落實產學連結共益專才實施彈性學制以課程並兼顧學生就業就學需求持續推動產學攜手合作2.014年至少有2萬名技術型高中以上學生參加此外"},{"start":3593.337,"end":3611.549,"text":"為了強化技職學士的一個整合推動技術高中跟科技大學的一個合作3加2新武裝模式也已經有300有38所科大138所技高合作辦理合定技術技高"},{"start":3612.6,"end":3626.158,"text":"學生一萬一千四百五十人更示範計職工會實施培育專班計畫優化專班實作技術培育課程及輔導工會生取得以及以上專業製造專業證照"},{"start":3629.022,"end":3656.267,"text":"是在高等教育方面為延攬重點領域優秀人才及培育國家高階人才推動彈性薪資協助大學延攬符合校務發展重點領域需求之新進教師此外為精進國家重點領域頂尖研究及提升高教品質配合國家重點產業領域人才需求鼓勵大專校院擴增資通訊半導體AI"},{"start":3659.492,"end":3688.275,"text":"機械科領域相關系統招生名額此外在115跟116前年度也感謝我們所有委員的一個支持通過特別預算200億來協助大學的一個發展國際攬財以及跟企業共賠人才此外也補助博士生海外留學每人每年最高100萬及延攬優秀境外博士生每人每夜4萬元"},{"start":3690.592,"end":3712.377,"text":"另外為因應生成式AI帶動產業的一個轉型成立台灣大專校園人工智慧學程聯盟台卡整合全國AI教育資源推動跨校合作教學以學分採認培育具專業素養以競爭力之AI人才此外推動教育平權"},{"start":3715.397,"end":3735.383,"text":"為輔助弱勢級特殊經營學生,我們也在2014年起開始試辦大專校院清涵學生當他的一個成績達到前班或者前夕的30%,他就可以每個月有獎學金8000元到1萬元的來協助他們在困境中經濟學業第五"},{"start":3736.943,"end":3757.601,"text":"在數位科技方面為營運國際數位學習的一個發展趨勢以及AI的發展對教育造成了一個深遠影響持續引導不同年齡的學生強化數位學習軟硬體資源充實數位內容以及應用深層式AI輔助教學以自主學習並研發新一代AI學習系統"},{"start":3759.554,"end":3778.116,"text":"另外提供教師教學輔導與支持推動入校入班陪伴服務14年累計了787校次的一個參加提升教師數位教學資能推廣數位教學之一以及強化科技領域AI素養"},{"start":3779.266,"end":3805.47,"text":"另外也建置教育部學習載具管理系統建構以維護教育大數據資料庫以及培養教育人員資料素養另外推廣高級中等學校新興科技教育共計22所中興學校及123所合作學校辦理2015年開始推動AI實驗方案推動偏遠地區學生數位學習的興趣及自主學習能力"},{"start":3806.274,"end":3825.098,"text":"第六在語言教育方面為厚植多元平權的本土語言教育辦理台灣語料庫的一個建置計畫建置台灣客語拼音學習網供各界使用另外增進高級中等以下學校學生應用雙語機會補助1320學校辦理雙語生活化的一個計畫此外也"},{"start":3832.42,"end":3858.801,"text":"選擇三所偏鄉學校、四辦住宿學校及雙語創新學校協助其發展全日行的多元學習環境豐富偏鄉學生學習資源其次在國際教育方面為配合國家發展需求這一個鼓勵學生護國外優秀大學攻讀五大信賴產業相關領域的博士學位從今年開始"},{"start":3860.438,"end":3886.269,"text":"考試方式改變先不再用紙筆的測驗直接改採書面審查後面試提高五大信賴產業學門的一個錄取生也錄取生的一個學位跟生活費的一個補助額度持續擴大招收國際生來臺就學及留學就業強化start in Taiwan的宣傳及"},{"start":3888.271,"end":3911.16,"text":"提供僑外生就學獎學金推動新南向產學合作專班設立國際產學人才教育專班畢業後留才就業就業義務提供產業所需人才以一三年一三學年度國際生在七十六所大學"},{"start":3913.385,"end":3917.99,"text":"畢業總共有8294人留下就業升學有4265人這一個留台率高達二分之一以上15年開始"},{"start":3929.076,"end":3950.068,"text":"推動華語教育2030年計畫以深化全球華語教育合作鏈結整合國內華語教育資源透過鏈結國內外華語教育專業人員強化行銷具台灣特色的華語教育在安心校園方面為維護學生的身心健康及"},{"start":3950.788,"end":3970.024,"text":"全人發展推動促進學生身心健康相關計畫以打造健康安心平等以尊重的友善校園環境充實校園專業輔導人力14年度高中端共治5352名專任輔導老師及專業輔導人員大專校園"},{"start":3976.445,"end":4005.007,"text":"共補助138校488名專任及兼任輔導人員的終點會此外也持續落實性別平等教育推動數位及網路性別暴力防治營造性別友善的一個校園空間另外也積極改善協助改善無障礙校園環境持續建構特殊教育的支持體系"},{"start":4007.438,"end":4036.89,"text":"目標於117年達成特殊教育班師生比國小1比10國中1比8高中時1比15完善特教助理人員人力並增加1600名月薪制學生助理員提升服務量能久在中生教育畫面為提供民眾中生學習機會及管道從114年開始推動中生學習線以及"},{"start":4041.081,"end":4055.471,"text":"中生教育師所管轄五管的一個通行票提供國人依其自身需求至社區大學、樂齡大學或部署社教館體驗社教館所體驗優質學習並進而培養中生學習習慣及行動另外從115年度推動"},{"start":4063.951,"end":4085.524,"text":"三十plus大學示範計畫也就是說將終身學習的一個對象從原本的55歲調整到30歲以上的成人已有60所大學申請鼓勵民眾培養第二專長及社會參與的能力讓不同階段的一個民眾都能回流在學習第十在原住民教育方面"},{"start":4086.636,"end":4092.94,"text":"以建立完整体系深耕民族意识培育族群人才尊重多元共荣为方针"},{"start":4116.617,"end":4116.637,"text":"好"},{"start":4117.845,"end":4146.865,"text":"開始增加到20名另外也攜手跟地方政府與學校合作擴充教育現場所需施施透過工會專班來培育務實調整以及務實調整國小足以施施資格及工會生畢業條件等措施創新足以施施培育制度第十一在青年發展方面為推動青年發展落實總統國家希望工程維護青年權益"},{"start":4148.103,"end":4174.81,"text":"除以以今年115年1月21日公布青年基本法並依據115年青年整合就學就業創業居住公共參與等政策為架構制定完成青年政策白皮書協助青年自我實現促進國家社會永續發展此外擴大青年白藝海外研夢計畫14年總共錄取"},{"start":4180.244,"end":4199.836,"text":"1463位年輕朋友到80幾個國家去圓夢今年更增加推出圓夢助力方案優先保障原住民偏鄉經濟弱勢學生及特殊技藝的青年參與權總共有331位青年走向世界"},{"start":4200.777,"end":4229.765,"text":"那最後有關委員提案的教師法第25條修法內容發給教師暫停暫時停聘期間待遇之本部立場現行教師法第25條規定教師經學校暫時停聘經調查後未受解聘或終極停聘並互聘者依規定發給本心我想有關這一個本心裡邊應該他是包含本縫跟協助研究會那麼"},{"start":4230.425,"end":4251.826,"text":"本部全力積極這一個建請我們委員也能夠支持來做教師法25條的一個修改以確保教師的一個權益 以上 謝謝好 謝謝鄭英耀部長其餘提出書面報告的機關代表有沒有口頭補充"},{"start":4254.172,"end":4278.192,"text":"好 沒有齁那機關代表報告完畢相關的書面資料請各位參閱並列入公報記錄現在我們開始進行詢答那因為登記發言的人數較多而且今天會進行法案的逐條審查所以討論條文的時候呢我們還是可以充分的表達意見所以今天每位出席委員質詢五分鐘"},{"start":4280.194,"end":4306.341,"text":"必要时延长两分钟 列席委员质询时间是4分钟发言登记截止时间是10点30分如果有委员有临时提案请在10点30分前提出处理提案的时候如果提案委员跟联署委员均不在场原例我们不予处理首先请登记第一位罗志强委员质询请"},{"start":4311.028,"end":4311.769,"text":"主席有請部長請鄭義耀部長謝謝"},{"start":4321.852,"end":4341.952,"text":"部長好那我在這個會期來到教育文化委員會所以我會期一開始就到我的選區的各個學校去拜訪然後看看每個學校目前的教育現場到底的狀況如何需要的那個幫助是什麼"},{"start":4342.893,"end":4366.561,"text":"那我剛剛在提案說明已經說過了我非常印象深刻幾乎每一個校長跟我講的第一件事情他們反應第一件事情是什麼請問部長你知道是什麼事嗎教師聘任對 教師荒每一個校長沒有一個校長沒提到這件事情所以部長你覺得目前教師荒嚴重嗎"},{"start":4369.342,"end":4394.223,"text":"跟委員報告我想當然我們看到了有部分的縣市陳儒委員剛才所提的他不只是在偏鄉離島或者飛山飛勢的學校連都會區也有遇到一些代理代課的老師特別在STEAM或者一些特教的一些類科上他確實是有一定程度的挑戰"},{"start":4395.544,"end":4412.836,"text":"但是我看完教育部的業務報告裡面幾乎沒有提到教師黃的議題只有非常篇幅少的提到教師的家籍所以我跟部長說這就是我今天來這邊我看到一個很大的落差感當我在"},{"start":4414.025,"end":4441.161,"text":"各個學校拜訪每一個學校校長跟我講的第一件事都是教師荒但這個基層的聲音竟然沒有反映到今天我們教育部的業務報告裡面我覺得這一點麻煩部長針對教師荒這件事情能夠請部裡面到底現在怎麼因應這件事給我一個報告好嗎準備一個報告給我可以嗎可以好那我要告訴部長剛剛你已經講過他是全國現象"},{"start":4442.802,"end":4466.392,"text":"顯示教育現場失調人才失之的推力大於拉力尤其其實對台北、雙北的衝擊又特別大所以甚至有媒體形容這是教師的脫北潮我想請問部長你知道教師離開都會離開台北造成的缺額有多嚴重嗎"},{"start":4467.472,"end":4494.214,"text":"那根據統計跟媒體報導台北市教師缺額連四年增加114學年度總學缺是2210位高中值732位 國中721位 國小757位那去年的狀況台北市佔全國缺額也高達34%招不到老師 要招代理老師但找代理老師 剛剛部長也講 其實也很困難"},{"start":4495.049,"end":4514.364,"text":"那從招聘六次七次到放寬到十幾二十次甚至也有到四十五次才找到代理老師一招再招不斷的放寬變成代理教室裡面沒有教師證也可能在三到四成我剛剛去拜訪學校的教育學生也是這樣反應"},{"start":4515.265,"end":4543.901,"text":"找代理教師基本上大學畢業就可以了幾乎跟委員報告委員可不可以我有比較長的時間把這一個來龍去脈是跟委員做詳細的一個報告因為執行時間有限沒關係部長你簡要但是有些東西我們可以在另外再談可以那我整個事後我可以跟委員做詳細報告簡單來講就是說我們國教署當時為了確保國民教育因為少子化裡邊許多學校大量採用代理老師對所以鼓勵"},{"start":4545.001,"end":4570.215,"text":"地方能夠優先聘專任老師從111嫌疑度到114其實我知道你又增加那個正式老師的職缺嘛每年增加500位的專任欸5000位的專任部長這個其實我在教育現場所以因為這樣所以產生了一定的我懂了部長你不用擔心喔因為這個其實我在教育現場那些校長也跟我講到這件事情喔但是它形成另外一個問題就是對台北市衝擊變更大嘛對不對"},{"start":4571.556,"end":4586.276,"text":"因為台北市的物價指數身為各方面所以台北市現在其實他開始給在地的這些中小學老師在攬財留財有更多的一些待遇上的一些加碼我覺得這樣一個策略"},{"start":4587.81,"end":4603.598,"text":"台北市在未來教師的一個延攬應該會有正面的一些感覺其實我覺得部長講到重點就是說以前你看到偏鄉的老師很難找所以偏鄉我們教育部我們國家會給予一些補助的政策對不對但是現在其實倒過來"},{"start":4604.719,"end":4631.261,"text":"現在變成是說今天都會區尤其是台北因為生活物價高但薪水拿的都一樣的時候事實上就會造成說今天教師荒最嚴重是發生在都會區尤其是在發生在台北市這點我還是要拜託部長為我的我們台北市請命就是說在所謂的增加這個所謂補貼的一個部分的話我們請教育部也能夠來研擬怎麼樣去幫助紓解台北市的教師荒可以嗎"},{"start":4632.582,"end":4646.202,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心我想國民教育當然是地方權限但是確保教育品質中央跟地方怎麼樣來共同攜手合作讓老師有一個更好的更穩定的一個教學環境更支持力道"},{"start":4647.023,"end":4668.624,"text":"支持性夠的一個環境我想這對我們新世代的教育品質絕對有幫助的我有些想法我再另外跟教育部溝通另外我這邊有接到一些反應就是有關於老師兼教練的問題也麻煩我們部裡頭來研究一下在教育歷程裡面運動教育只是很重要的一環"},{"start":4669.525,"end":4686.044,"text":"不管是培養國手還是學能或全能養成那實際上現在我知道教育部也好我們的運動部都很重視這一塊但是呢有很多老師現在幾乎是燃燒自己在帶校隊帶體育機優或專長的學生這一點狀況我想部長應該知道對不對那怎麼說呢因為"},{"start":4689.508,"end":4706.417,"text":"按照現行規定教師兼任校隊訓練工作他只能用社團老師的名義每週只能減授一到二節課那我現在台北市接到很多陳情的狀況是國中專任教師一週基本授課時數是18節但是兼校隊的訓練老師每週基本授課時數仍然高達16到17節但是這些老師帶學生早晚"},{"start":4715.222,"end":4737.47,"text":"午休甚至假日寒暑假訓練工作都在進行每週實際工作量甚至高達30節課以上那也有老師跟我反映說為了帶校隊帶體育學生學生時間還超過陪自己家裡小孩那我要講就是說我說的這不是體育班是沒有專任教練的學校"},{"start":4738.03,"end":4757.079,"text":"那很多體育老師或是經驗相關經驗的老師帶校隊跟體育相關學生有些老師本身選手出身那這些部分我覺得教育部能不能也給我一個報告就是說怎麼樣來去對他們有一些幫助跟支援確實我們在中小學特別小學"},{"start":4757.699,"end":4783.772,"text":"有許多的這些老師間這個社團 等於說運動團隊的一些教練他們都是非常熱情甚至有的還提供學生的時數我想這一個部分我們都經常會耳聞聽到這樣的優秀熱情的老師我們來給他怎麼樣一個更大的我覺得要給實質的幫助啦因為你今天完全靠老師燃燒自己去做其實對老師來講負擔真的是非常大"},{"start":4784.332,"end":4790.737,"text":"所以我們需要教育部來做後盾 以上好 謝謝謝謝羅志強委員 請部長回座接下來有請柯志恩委員謝謝各位 我們請部長請部長謝謝"},{"start":4809.169,"end":4824.532,"text":"部长好我想今天从刚刚到现在到等一下都有很多人关切我们老师的这个环境的问题你知道学生的管教越来越严重那我想很多的家长跟学校其实都有点束手无策像之前就有一个是"},{"start":4825.092,"end":4850.052,"text":"1岁的小孩飙车还压车过关哇塞过弯了这个父母亲都不知道该怎么管而且呢现在没有宗措但是常常请假这是校园里面常常发生的一些的状况显然这个学校也是不太有有办法来做处理啊那部长你可以知道从2012年开始有关师生的问题冲突的问题啊那个时候呢大概每年平均只有300多件"},{"start":4850.913,"end":4867.731,"text":"在2019的时候呢赢到500多件到了2023年赢到771件而且这还有很多的黑数所以说呢这个师生关系紧张学生不断地用网络上网去po跟老师进行冲突面对这样的状况部长你有任何的对策吗"},{"start":4869.334,"end":4880.648,"text":"謝謝委員關心青少年一個發展確實在情緒上的一個教育情緒的一個管理人際之間的一個互動溝通我們從去年暑假開始跟委員報告"},{"start":4882.177,"end":4900.104,"text":"國教署我已經要他們開始推動這一個屬性就是培養同理心部長我知道同理心我們從以前就培養到現在你會發現現在的孩子跟老師越來越沒有同學部長因為時間因為召委給我們的時間太短今天是夜報應該給我們更多的時間那你看我還是給你看一個數據"},{"start":4901.044,"end":4925.083,"text":"为什么我要拿这个当例子就是目前来说老师感受到整个教学环境让他们倍感挫折你可以看出来当初部长我们都是学教育心理学的我们都施施培育过当初我们培养的学生这个施培出来他们为了要考上教真教简他们花了多好时间然后考上之后欣喜若狂然后就到学校去任教这是我们所知道的教育的正常但是你看现在你看这个比率"},{"start":4925.743,"end":4950.99,"text":"目前来说呢新手老师的任教比例越来越低了你知道吗取得教师证跟正式代理的比例大概只有57.4你再看下面这个数字就成了我刚刚所说的当身为一个师资培育的老师我们目前为止大概有23万个是具有教师证的一个资格但是呢投入整个的教职的工作大概只有13万也就是说有三分之一合格老师是不进校园的"},{"start":4951.69,"end":4971.582,"text":"而且任教十年的变化里面呢从70%到60%而且呢这个整个心血投入下降所以你不可否认就是整个的环境真的是让老师觉得倍感挫折这边可以给部长看到吗不同的团体做出不同的这样的比例图但是呢青师生三片面的共同困难"},{"start":4972.122,"end":4987.643,"text":"校园文化的管理问题缺乏成就感 质押疲乏还有缺乏专业制度再加上校士会的整个那个烂数所以说呢一些老师就告诉你我不是不爱孩子啊我是这个制度没有办法让我爱下去啊所以你看这个比率"},{"start":4988.504,"end":5006.749,"text":"当初考上学校包括你自己从师专毕业你那时候是琢磨以当老师为荣结果你看现在你可以想象到目前为止你当教育部长的当下你看看连公费生也宁可赔钱也要离职就表示这个环境已经让他没有办法带下去了所以我们归纳结果是怎么样呢下面一页"},{"start":5007.469,"end":5022.828,"text":"就是整个的结构的问题师资人力不稳校园冲突增加亲事关系简单烂速明白身为部长同样是一个教师专业出来一路过来的你应该很有感吧部长怎么办你不要告诉我怎么同理心那不好了"},{"start":5024.394,"end":5043.623,"text":"委員這太重要了同理心很重要但是你先告訴我老師的問題老師問題怎麼解決我跟委員關係的都一樣我們都非常在意是來怎麼解決那我也有一個數據可能這一個跟委員update一下我們現在近五年拿到教師證的有八成的"},{"start":5045.244,"end":5058.631,"text":"教室這個年輕老師他們還是到中小學教育現場停留多久 三年 停留三年以上的比例多少比例多少 告訴我我要跟委員報告是代理代課呢 還是正式老師"},{"start":5060.498,"end":5078.719,"text":"正式老師或者帶領帶客的正式老師停留三年以上有多少同意委員有許多的現象我們怎麼樣提供更友善的校園環境怎麼友善部長怎麼友善我們一直在努力就像委員也支持學生胡刀華"},{"start":5079.56,"end":5102.298,"text":"也通过了嘛对吧来来来你不抢还好学生服务长先谈这个问题学生服务长那个彭书长也在我后面我真的要特别问一下你上次告诉我的有关于新的编制准则我们好不容易过去了编制编制准则你告诉我你已经公告了有吗我点进去看112年你还是用旧的法再来做这样的事情"},{"start":5102.958,"end":5105.02,"text":"包委員 我們那時候跟您報告的是現行的相關作法都已經到我們的計畫內會增加600位包委員 會增加600位老師跟"},{"start":5120.391,"end":5147.441,"text":"192位专政人员这个都跟委员报告过不是你告诉我你的网站上面你的新的编制准则你还是照旧法来往下面看更不要想说我们好不容易进去了部长你这个部分里面还包括我们的老师这个很多的老师就特别提到了他们这个已经的人力已经非常的缺乏然后呢也很多老师特别提到了目前来说他们没有办法像一般老师一样可以按节次来去做这样的一个增补"},{"start":5148.121,"end":5167.899,"text":"那这些都是一个很大的问题我们下面的这样的一个部分好 我先回到刚刚我真的还没有讲完所以部长你跟我说我支持学生辅导法是 但是很多的配套你完全没有update跟上来所以根据刚刚我们所提到那么多的教师的觉得校园不友善的问题你真正的对策到底在哪里"},{"start":5169.54,"end":5187.572,"text":"對策在哪裡嗎 根據這個我想譬如說施施的不穩定我們看到了STEM或者偏鄉離島我們開始增加了一個原住民的專班我們對STEM這個我肯定你能努力但是你這些問題還是沒有不足以我們對偏鄉的代理代課老師他沒有辦法"},{"start":5188.593,"end":5205.088,"text":"因為他對教育是有熱忱的所以我們改變了用線上來上課部長我再跟你加雞同鴨講這個部分我剛才說我肯定你的做法對於偏鄉但是對於線上不是偏鄉的這些老師的人力不穩校園衝突校園爛樹我們也感謝委員的支持我們現在事實上"},{"start":5208.271,"end":5230.494,"text":"所以你都认为你都做好了吗不是我想有一些东西教育这个东西不是一夜之间就能够看到效果我当然知道教育不是一夜之间但是教育的很多的问题我们到目前为止同样讨论的都是这些表示很多的做法目前为止还是没有办法解决这是我所提出来的"},{"start":5230.894,"end":5256.807,"text":"部長因為時間有限我請你把這樣的部分給我一份報告來告訴我你針對我所提出這四大項你做的策略到底是什麼可以嗎因為我們時間沒有辦法在這個地方對不起給我一分鐘的時間我還是要問到這個有關於這個我們上次已經我們的召委在這個地方已經排定了這樣子的一個問題但是很顯然沒有辦法解決原因很簡單你知道目前為止來說我們往下看"},{"start":5259.528,"end":5273.164,"text":"这是一个学生在我们上次的讨论完之后他亲手写信给我的学生给我写的他就是我把他的名字弄掉啊他是说告诉我们目前他们这些的剥削一直存在然后你们告诉大家"},{"start":5274.445,"end":5278.247,"text":"那时候教育部本来非常好的也可以告诉我们就说你有个公约有一个合约就是说你用赋月薪的方法教育部本来本意很良善"},{"start":5304.338,"end":5319.905,"text":"但是呢因为赋月薪的方法这些很多的地方就是让他一个礼拜可以工作40小时可是他只有4天可以工作所以要求他们一天工作10小时一天工作10小时而且呢"},{"start":5320.285,"end":5334.273,"text":"他們工作10小時的時候呢有很多你們當初我們被糾舉的新南向國際專班因為你們特別要求特別保護所以呢他們可以收時薪而且每天不能超過8小時反而是這些僑生他們每天被要求工作超過一天超過10小時的這樣子的血汗所以他們告訴大家他們真的是很累了"},{"start":5342.637,"end":5370.024,"text":"他們想來這邊學習但是呢他們被要求的沒有辦法所以好像就是一個來這邊留學可是被當作勞工來做看待那這樣子的一個合法化你怎麼來做這個解決這是存在的事實不要告訴我們你們超乎違法沒有這種事超乎違法就不會有一群學生來這邊控告我想我的心情這樣一個案例的控訴這不是案例喔我的心情跟委員是一樣的我一定會嚴格來查只要查到"},{"start":5371.784,"end":5397.699,"text":"我事實上跟我們報告我在去年跟32所的技高學校的所有的董事校長我直接感謝我們彭署長的邀請在南東我特別舉了因為我不希望台灣是一個國學天堂我希望台灣有更多的國際派是以後培養出更多的林培但是你現在的政策我相信這是一個理想因為這個東西來說的話"},{"start":5401.461,"end":5425.429,"text":"對,不用預告,不預告,不定期的去做,你不要有事情你才去做我們也去查到了一個即將要退場的一個學校就是說我要談的是說許多的東西我們逐步來做,我的心情是跟我一樣的部長,我從2016年當立委到這邊所有的部長在那執行台上面都告訴我教育不是一觸之間就可以完成,我們都逐步來做"},{"start":5426.369,"end":5451.423,"text":"問到2026了 十年了 還在逐步來做你會知道讓我們所有的老師 還有讓我們很多的學生都非常的覺得希望教育部能夠主動做一些的事情我說如果你們沒有辦法按照法定的規定來辦我會把這個班關掉第二個如果你學校連在地的本國生都沒有認真地把他辦學你們學校我也會把你關掉"},{"start":5452.183,"end":5472.627,"text":"所以说我现在已经呈现出这样的一个状况421请不要让这些学生永远要透过跟立法委员这样子的告知然后才有办法发现这些事实我只能告诉你每一次我们做出任何的事情然后你们去查都说查无违法这种的状况真的会让很多受害的学生不定期的"},{"start":5473.467,"end":5489.617,"text":"我們我的這個專門委都親自下去現場去看我想這個我們來努力但也許一時間沒有辦法立即改善但是這是我們我現在最後只是祈求部長你真的也是教育出身的老師的環境越來越惡劣"},{"start":5490.478,"end":5511.164,"text":"你不能否认有更多更多的老师不愿意投注在这个地方有更多的老师很希望他的热情能够被我们的教育部可以接触然后呢我们有很多的学生在这个过程里面桥外学生也很想来台湾学习不要因为我们的法治我们的一些制度还有我们一些想贪小便宜因为找移工找学工远比找那些"},{"start":5511.644,"end":5527.873,"text":"所謂的移工來得更且省錢我不希望我們的台灣教育變成是如此這個是你跟我共同期望你現在握有權力你應該更知道如何能夠來做這樣的一個部分留在這裡的原因謝謝委員你要走到這裡你就好好幫我們把這些你的問題把它解決啊"},{"start":5528.853,"end":5530.214,"text":"我現在的眼睛會越來越多了謝謝委員"},{"start":5557.602,"end":5584.261,"text":"好謝謝主席有請部長請部長到質詢台委員好部長好部長剛剛柯委員下去以後啊他講了一句話你可能沒聽到他說你是一個好人但是呢我一直要想我們不能夠把所有的事情建立在各個部會首長是好人"},{"start":5585.325,"end":5591.394,"text":"的一個基礎上而是要把它建立在制度上就像你剛剛說的不要讓我看到你絕對會出力"},{"start":5593.22,"end":5614.012,"text":"但是有多少我們沒有看到這是重點所以不只是增加眼睛我們更希望透過制度透過檢舉透過不要只是找立法委員我們能夠處理多少這樣子的零星案件他已經變成零星變成很多的通案的話我想是制度上有問題不管是剛剛喬森的問題到校園爛樹的問題到現在校園暴力的問題"},{"start":5619.542,"end":5644.062,"text":"前幾天又出了一個所謂的用棍棒敲頭的案件您知道嗎我想這個事情到底要怎麼處理有委員為了這樣子還要求我一定要排公聽會一定要排這個案子要來審他所謂的希望有特殊案例的孩子要轉介到其他的單位來做一個培養那您覺得這樣的說法對嗎"},{"start":5646.24,"end":5668.659,"text":"我想教育的一個難處就是我們很難把某一個事件變成全部大家都一致的處理但是我也同意委員剛才所提我們在很多時候是要建立制度所以校園怎麼樣防止有一個更友善校園而是沒有死角的一個校園讓我們怎麼樣在課間或者放學的時間"},{"start":5670.895,"end":5695.621,"text":"校安人員學校的一個幸福人員能夠或者導致能夠全力的投入到協助學生青少年的一個這一個發展我想這都是我們在努力的我知道我們都努力但是不能夠僅靠愛的教育啊你不能說因為校園暴力多我們來多一點品德教育就這樣子而已不是說品德教育不重要因為他當然會有這樣一個行為絕對不是一日之"},{"start":5696.101,"end":5717.473,"text":"形成了嘛我們先來瞭解從親師親子教育親師合作到校園的一個友善環境的一個所有的一個努力包含我們國教署在這一個去年就有這個前面我都知道包括你的夜光天使願意來支持我想這個都是不管是事前我們來做一些相關的教育"},{"start":5717.953,"end":5743.383,"text":"事後我們也希望說有一些強力的手段能夠介入這是家長端這是老師端這是其他正常願意認真上課的學生都希望的所以我們還是回歸到今天的主題前言我們談了這麼多但今天我們就教師法25條我想今天的報告寫得很清楚25條我們為什麼今天要來討論你的報告裡面就寫得很清楚引發校園爛樹一綠"},{"start":5745.024,"end":5768.522,"text":"省着教师非自愿停止工作以及现在近年物价大幅成长下尚难充分的维持基本生活跟家庭照顾的所需却有再检讨精进之处这个是你的报告所写的所以我的版本很简单现行条文说的补发其停聘期间全数的本薪"},{"start":5770.143,"end":5791.913,"text":"還有我還多了五項考核獎金年終獎金職務佳績學術佳績地域佳績簡而言之就是四個字權益還原就如同今天的教育報告你們的裡面所到所寫到的爛樹一律非自願停止以及生活照顧的所需我認為"},{"start":5794.113,"end":5807.81,"text":"應該要補發這五項這五項不是額外的優惠是教師在原聘任的狀態下就應該領取的待遇結構的一部分部長您怎麼回應我的版本"},{"start":5809.205,"end":5835.241,"text":"我感謝委員的一個對老師權益的一個關心但是確實我們學校裡邊不是每一個老師都有兼行政工作也不是每一個老師都有兼導師但是我們怎麼確保他最基本的所謂的薪水每個月那個薪水就是本鳳家學術研究會這應該的我從將近兩年前進來我跟地方在"},{"start":5836.101,"end":5853.623,"text":"老師在座談的時候我聽一聽就是還是同理心將心比心我認為他的薪水應該被保障當他被不實指控這也是我們第一個階段在處理校士會議以後把濫訴匿名投訴的拿掉接著再來支持老師當他有"},{"start":5854.364,"end":5879.579,"text":"受到不當的指控或者誤解的時候回他 回復他金牌不是來自於他 歸咎於他個人的我們本來就應該把整個月的薪水給他所以就像你剛剛講的嘛不是每個人都有行政家級不是每個人都有教師家級所以我所主張的1加5並不是他一定領到滿 領到有啊一定也要看他原本的薪資待遇結構裡面有沒有這一項啊"},{"start":5880.279,"end":5892.701,"text":"所以你只說你的一加一我認為他就已經喪失他原有的權益了嘛建立制度一個完美的一個未來社會的一個想像當然有時候沒有辦法一出"},{"start":5894.387,"end":5917.37,"text":"一次到位你又要說無法一觸即成了但是我這個誰不知道但是我還是希望這件事情還人家清白了就應該要好好的重視他的問題啊但是我想整個來講仇英社會的一個公正性您剛剛報告寫得很清楚非自願停止工作啊"},{"start":5918.07,"end":5946.204,"text":"證明清白了我們現在就是應該要修法進行補發是學校讓教師暫時不能服刑人我覺得不合理因為他的清白他本來就應該領著所有他該有的一些新的待遇結構的時候他是因為學校讓他暫時不能服刑他不是自願不做這件事情啊所以就不應該把沒有服刑的後果全部算在教師頭上啊"},{"start":5947.805,"end":5973.735,"text":"所以我們一直在講還他清白就應該要原有的責任都全部給他我想剛剛已經在談論到這麼多的問題我們教師能力不足校園爛數的問題以及現在我們看到我們要怎麼樣還他們清白之後給他們該有的權益這都是讓第一線的老師願意再回到學校最後的動力所以您在主張一加一的時候我覺得就是沒有在為老師想"},{"start":5974.375,"end":5996.014,"text":"沒有啦跟文報告你也知道我是小學老師出身我非常清楚第一線上我也擔任過兩次的地方的教育局的局長我非常熟悉第一線上老師的各項的一些他們的挑戰所以我也說你是一個好人但我也要告訴你你也知道我是三個孩子的父親是"},{"start":5996.354,"end":6009.543,"text":"站在家長角度我都願意幫老師講話因為我知道對老師好就是對我們的學生好如果沒有老師我們的孩子的未來就可能會接受更差的教育"},{"start":6012.125,"end":6030.434,"text":"就是溺愛我們有一些老師他事實上你如果錢不應該給老師老師領了他也會覺得心虛我們反而陷他於不義這樣子啦 部長再思考看看啦我希望能夠更全面的保障教師權益才符合公平這個我們的想法是一致的所以今天"},{"start":6031.734,"end":6046.233,"text":"遭委要逐條我也建議遭委今天現在院會還在施政總質詢是不是再給部長時間再想一下建議逐條能夠緩一緩不要急著我們是1加5不要1加1最後我再問一個問題"},{"start":6048.629,"end":6063.78,"text":"我想接著問學校運動設施補助案向我們部長來請教一下請問部長現在教育跟體育分家了請問你同意運動部在學校運動設施的補助上"},{"start":6064.833,"end":6088.225,"text":"只負責棒球跟足球嗎你同意嗎你覺得這合理嗎他現在的意思是其他的他一概不論任何運動設施喔都要由教育部來負責補助喔跟委員報告因為我並沒有聽到運動部有這樣的說法我現在告訴你了運動部給我的答案就是運動部只負責棒球跟足球場其他"},{"start":6089.145,"end":6116.376,"text":"所有的運動設施全部教育部自己要負責你同意嗎請你回答我我想應該他可能沒有把話講完因為還有一些專項還有一些許多的這些屬於政策上這一個在推動的那請問目前你有白紙黑字去了解這些分工的這個部分我想我們那個張料次長他都定期跟運動部這一個洪次長都會有一個雙邊的一個溝通協調"},{"start":6118.757,"end":6143.167,"text":"那這個部分我想委員所關心的我們來了解現在運動部要推給你啊那我再幫你爭取權益啊但我希望你應該要了解你目前到底有多困境有學校能夠蓋棒球場跟足球場應該很少九成以上的其他運動設施都要由教育部負責如果你同意這樣子的分工我只能說啊你會很辛苦"},{"start":6144.188,"end":6166.887,"text":"我們現在在爭取很多的考察的時候也遇到這樣的問題你剛剛跟我講的是專班相關的運動設施可能是針對比如說體育班專項競技類的但是就不要跟一般教學的設施一起審查的話我想體育班拉出來他們才有機會可以獲得補助"},{"start":6168.709,"end":6174.447,"text":"現在我們看到這樣的規定我們也希望他可以提出申請但問題是你們不會補助啊"},{"start":6175.342,"end":6202.969,"text":"所以這個問題在分工上你跟運動部我覺得你還要再好好的協商我們這些委員對於現在這樣子的考察遇到狀況我們沒辦法接受那基本上制度上就委員所言則上我們是都有共識的那我想委員剛才所提的也許我們這一個是不是運動部上話沒有把它講清楚我們事後再來了解所以我現在就想了解嘛 操場"},{"start":6203.729,"end":6227.935,"text":"跑道 籃球場 射箭場 羽球場 游泳池 網球場這些誰來補助 講清楚說明白所以部長你可以多久給我一個答案這基本上是由教育部因為體育教學但是如果屬於專項的這個競技型的一些團隊上的一些這個訓練那當然是運動部 我想我們會後再把它弄清楚"},{"start":6228.835,"end":6250.42,"text":"委員說造成委員的困擾兩個禮拜內給我答案好嗎兩個禮拜好可以嗎可以可以上個禮拜四我在教文辦這個考察我去台中教育大學十小看他們輕艇校隊台中教育大學的十小輕艇隊培育出多位國家代表亞運的選手像這樣子的輕艇校隊補助案要找誰"},{"start":6251.3,"end":6273.781,"text":"你知道嗎清庭基本上它是比較戶外的水域的活動應該是跟運動部的關聯性比較大但是如果在個案上來講我們來看怎麼樣來我們現在部長說應該是運動部啦我不怪你但運動部說叫我找你所以我就撐得很納悶今天我會遇到的問題我呼籲所有的委員你們都會遇到"},{"start":6274.676,"end":6291.322,"text":"一起來釐清這件事情最後30秒我們要感謝部長願意大力的支持夜光天使延伸到國中目前事辦兩年的成效都非常好我想還是要希望部長繼續能夠支持夜光天使能夠"},{"start":6292.202,"end":6309.537,"text":"事半延伸到國中的夜間的教育政策我們來推動夜光天使3.0脫貧是一條非常漫長辛苦的路但教育無疑是公平也希望有一條公平的路能夠讓新興學子透過自己的努力在教育制度上能夠向上繼續"},{"start":6311.698,"end":6339.479,"text":"來就學能夠有這樣的可能性所以我們要支持就像你剛剛說的雖然對於暴力事件我們沒有辦法很多方法但現在你說的品德教育同理心也好我們都希望夜光天使多一點接觸就來實施這一些教育這部分我希望一定要加油一定要支持好嗎一定好謝謝我們現在對偏鄉離島還有非三會式的學校我們大概都有這個前面來支持這個夜光天使拜託你謝謝"},{"start":6340.76,"end":6341,"text":"委員好"},{"start":6365.851,"end":6389.23,"text":"部長早首先本席還是要跟部長關心一下我們國家教育大業這新一年度的預算那目前在野黨遲遲不審總預算那雖然表面上假裝很在乎所以也想讓什麼新興計畫要先行動之可是根據這個立法院職權行使法第七條"},{"start":6390.431,"end":6401.506,"text":"預算案應該經過三讀程序所以這種所謂的新行動之案根本沒有前例而且除了有急迫性的新興計畫預算我們還有常態性的延續性的計畫預算"},{"start":6407.714,"end":6426.015,"text":"那比去年度多編一些預算那這些預算有可能是因應物價成長或者是要深化既有的政策那現在這筆錢也因為總預算沒省那面臨到不能使用的窘境那預算法第54條是說除了新興資本"},{"start":6427.196,"end":6455.348,"text":"支出及新增計劃外其他的計劃是依以或授權的原定計劃或接上年度執行數核實動之按照教育部提供的資料2026年常態性延續性的計劃預算比上一年度增加了66億元那白花一點來講這筆錢可說是藍白不省總預算可能會被實質砍掉的"},{"start":6456.889,"end":6480.442,"text":"看得到吃不到所以要請他補充簡單講一下這新增的66億的金額主要是用在什麼地方那如果像是說電費人事費這些費用可能今年的成本會有一些增加而且還要一定支出那就是無法被壓縮那其他哪些項目會因為這樣而被"},{"start":6483.342,"end":6484.263,"text":"緩減齁這個或者減縮它的規模部長"},{"start":6488.236,"end":6513.519,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實我們真的希望預算115的預算能夠趕快升為什麼因為光剛才委員所講的這個新增的預算裡邊我一直覺得對我們從小學到大學有一項無人機的一個學習這一個學習這一個協作然後從無人機的操作到設計到製造到"},{"start":6515.14,"end":6523.324,"text":"以後會影響到一個整個產業就是說我們從小學開始到大學這一個9.3億在未來我們是總共編了60對 將近10億"},{"start":6529.901,"end":6543.371,"text":"總共有將近五十億四年那我會希望說這個真的是非常重要的那當然像其他的它也包含譬如說我們看到有一些大學它事實上有許多歷史建物放在那邊我朋友說我覺得很不敢"},{"start":6546.973,"end":6566.887,"text":"我們怎麼樣給一些錢教育部第一是我們從公益算邊來支持大學去做老屋的改建或者一些維護我想這也非常有價值那剛才譬如說委員所提到的原來14年已經做的我們現在繼續再持續往好的方面再加碼譬如說像中生教育師裡面的"},{"start":6570.289,"end":6588.575,"text":"公共圖書館包含地方的Big Maker我們地方圖書館光這一項就增加了將近18億這事實上用來支持地方縣市裡面有自己的縣域更美更現代化的更Fashion的圖書館或者鄉鎮的一些鄉鎮型的圖書館上的擴充或者增建"},{"start":6596.218,"end":6614.279,"text":"那另外呢還有一個在資訊裡邊我們對中小學的數位的學習我想我們AI裡邊有許多的一些基本的設備我們用來支持中小學這裡邊的一些設備的一個添置包含這個用電當然用電補助也有還有像是"},{"start":6615.407,"end":6637.811,"text":"大學裡邊譬如說陽明大學的輔助醫院第二期的擴建計畫那麼也有15.6億這個都是今年新增的以類似這樣的東西他就都沒有辦法做我想我們擔心這個延誤到這一個工程特別在醫院裡邊其實有很多的時候他服務的是更廣大的社會大眾的一個健康"},{"start":6638.271,"end":6659.823,"text":"所以我還真心的期待我們委員能夠趕快來審查這一個15年的預算讓教育部能夠走得更快速更穩健所以部長剛講很多有列舉很多的項目就這66億到底有哪幾個項目其實是被擋掉的"},{"start":6661.204,"end":6678.314,"text":"假設沒有省 這些都動彈不得 都沒有辦法動那我現在是要問說 好 那既然狀況是這樣那我們要想到最壞最壞的話就是說 那藍白真的就擺爛不省那這樣子的話 你怎麼解決怎麼解決 有沒有想"},{"start":6678.914,"end":6695.522,"text":"想一些方法怎麼因應我不期待我不想像說我們預算不省我是一個正向難萬事樂觀的人我相信他還是會省就是說我只是希望我們都是做福國利民的事是要因為原來良善的一些"},{"start":6696.722,"end":6717.497,"text":"對未來想像社會更進步的想像因為這樣而耽擱了一些時間因為這樣而沒有辦法執行這確實是比較困難當然如果藍白可以來審總預算當然是最好因為你看去年的今年的不審那再來我們下半年度照理要審明年的那明年的呢"},{"start":6718.577,"end":6736.332,"text":"對 所以這個都環環相扣喔所以還是要趕快今年趕快審那明年 趕快這一個也跟在野黨的也能夠大家一起合作這裡就有一位在野黨的要拜託他好 那另外跟部長探討一下就是轉型正義教育的問題喔"},{"start":6737.573,"end":6759.393,"text":"這個行政院在2023年有韓班國家轉型正義教育行動綱領為期四年的這個管考計畫到今年2026年那這個轉型正義的教育隨著很多越來越多的研究啊口述歷史跟藝文的著作它教育的面向越來越多元也更加深入"},{"start":6760.094,"end":6783.661,"text":"比如說本席曾經向衛福部關心過的政治暴力創傷的療癒或者近期推動轉型正義匯報重視的戰後援助民族轉型正義的強化方案等等那在今年的2月26的行政院院會也特別宣示說要責成教育部啟動嚴定第二期的教育行動綱領那基本上這份到2026的行動綱領"},{"start":6788.522,"end":6810.019,"text":"是依據促轉會任務總結報告的各面向去編寫的這些教育議題總綱領裡面也有提到會由教育部來協同各面向的主辦機關來研編國家轉型正義教育行動綱領的實施指引來提供各機關來規劃專屬推動計畫跟訓練課程落實轉型教育"},{"start":6815.743,"end":6838.541,"text":"那這邊綱領今年就要到期那很可能就要來開始編寫下一個階段的這個轉型正義教育規劃所以除了本席剛剛提到的那兩個特定的議題以外那近期掀起很多的歷史補課潮啦那我們看到教育部做了這個補課專區那目前也正逐步在建置這個頁面那我想要請教育部長是說"},{"start":6839.622,"end":6867.159,"text":"下一份的綱領會加強辦理哪些教育部認為這四年還沒有落實的部分那另外比如說有可能是機關不配合轉型這個轉型正義的教育消極的配合這個國家的這個轉型教育的政策另外說其他我們還有一些新增什麼樣的內容我們要來深化國家的這個轉型正義教育部長好"},{"start":6870.875,"end":6896.965,"text":"謝謝委員關心轉型正義我想自由從來不是理所當然歷史可以被原諒但是不應該被遺忘那我們也知道有些歷史不是存在課本裡邊那也存在這塊土地的記憶中所以我們最近陳委員所關心的我們在今年年底就會把新的一個四年計畫就把它弄出來那過去呢我們確實在許多的那些"},{"start":6898.085,"end":6920.994,"text":"來自這塊土地的這些轉型正義我剛才講土地也保留了許多的歷史記憶我們開始鼓勵大學有這個透過USR去大手牽小手結合在地的文史工作者跟在地的相關的NGO團體民間團體去把這樣的一個轉型正義故事地圖開始實地去踏查透過教學透過戶外"},{"start":6922.234,"end":6944.194,"text":"戶外的一個教育裡面戶外的活動裡面開始去推動那另外呢從今年開始陳副委員剛才有看到我們大概每一個月會有一到兩期的短影音包含每一個月裡面有特定的來自因為過去白色恐怖的一個受難或者扼巴或者來自於譬如說下個月的沒有今天4月1號我講話是算數的"},{"start":6947.296,"end":6965.262,"text":"今天4月7號是言論自由日我們就會有一期這個短影音的言論自由的一個出來那類似這樣的一個東西包含實地的比如說我們也開始"},{"start":6965.962,"end":6981.089,"text":"跟我們報告我們的部會議已經在3月初禮兵我們部會議一起主管全部到這個景美的人權博物館去開部會議我們也開始校長老師學生開始陸續去鼓勵參觀這個"},{"start":6986.671,"end":7012.525,"text":"人權博物館或者是到立島裡面實際的像我們這個月就我會帶領我們的一級主管分兩梯次到立島裡面去真正的去理解過去在那一個危險的一個時代裡面我們怎麼樣從這裡邊去尋求這一個經驗然後避免要珍惜台灣的一個自由民主得來不易我想這個我們會全面的來做"},{"start":7013.906,"end":7028.659,"text":"真的非常肯定部長對於轉型正義教育的重視之所以那麼重要我覺得我們看看其他的國家像德國 波蘭你就可以感受到他們認真在做這個教育紮根的努力可是"},{"start":7029.56,"end":7052.189,"text":"要做事就要有人所以我還是很懇切的來請求這個部長這方面的專責人力應該要增編因為目前那個做轉型正義教育部這邊只有兩位所以我想說是不是也可以來增編那當然這個請您回去研議看看那可不可以在會後來回覆本席有回應跟委員報告我們確實也因為"},{"start":7054.97,"end":7075.564,"text":"這一個轉型正義裡面的業務量忽然可能這一個部長也這一個非常積極在推動所以我們人手確實有一些不足我們也跟人事總處這邊在積極在希望能夠透過這一個他們能夠獲得支持增加人力好好謝謝那加油啦"},{"start":7076.984,"end":7083.213,"text":"多增加一些人力才能把這事情做得更好謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝議級委員質詢部長請回座接下來請蔡春城委員質詢"},{"start":7103.004,"end":7106.867,"text":"主席我們請教育部的鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":7113.959,"end":7137.332,"text":"委員好部長好剛剛有很多委員都有提到都非常關心目前校園就是有一些問題譬如說教師方還有我們的校園的一個氛圍已經非常的不友善包括我們的孩子在協同有五個就有一個很想"},{"start":7139.753,"end":7152.801,"text":"不想上學然後有年紀關係的一個焦慮那在113年的教育部的一個校安通報那個學生的一個自殺率將近兩萬人那如果從106人到現在將近"},{"start":7159.4,"end":7179.382,"text":"成長了12倍這個數字是非常非常的驚人那今天呢我就要替這些焦慮的學生想自殺的學生還有剩下幸福感50分的老師來對我們教育部提出最沉重的一個呼籲"},{"start":7182.545,"end":7192.159,"text":"請問部長在這樣的一個狀況裡面部長你有沒有決心就是明年就能夠把教師的幸福感提升到60%"},{"start":7195.706,"end":7223.362,"text":"我想老師的幸福感當然有主客觀的一些感受但是怎麼樣提供老師讓他能夠更願意留在校園裡邊這讓他有覺得培養一起來大家一起來努力這個培養我們新世代的這個年輕小孩讓他們有一個更美好的未來的一個發展所以校園的負面不好是我們一直在努力的要怎麼樣努力"},{"start":7224.757,"end":7245.473,"text":"就像剛才委員所關心的我們把校士會議裡面造成老師無謂的壓力這些匿名的投訴我們把它拿掉了我們來調整老師的終點會老師的一些也許大家覺得好像力有未盡但是至少我們看到了一些我們從"},{"start":7246.494,"end":7271.007,"text":"他的薪資報酬的一些工作上的一些相對的一些帶也做了一些調整那我們也開始對偏鄉離島的老師我們開始這一個支持宿舍的整建或者蓋宿舍讓老師能夠有一個安穩的那個部長我了解希望這個決心能夠落實那就是在那個"},{"start":7273.308,"end":7275.349,"text":"檢察院也有調查出我們的一個輔導的機制輔導人力的不足輔導老師的一個行政負擔過重然後我們的輔導的一個銜接的機制也不流暢所以才會造成這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":7290.854,"end":7313.241,"text":"這個就是我們目前為什麼我們會有這麼多的學生不想上學然後壓力很大所以然後我們現在也有一個所謂的身心調試架這個身心調試架目前利用的沒有很多那請問各縣市有沒有掌握到這個城鄉的一個使用的統計差異"},{"start":7317.523,"end":7338.334,"text":"就是我想身心調適下確實是最近我們去年開始實施嘛高中生裡面已經有兩萬三千多的一個學生全國大概佔了將近5%將近5%的學生有用到這個身心調適下那後續呢如果這些學生有這樣的一個狀況學校有沒有做後續的一個輔導這是詳細我是請我們署長來補充說明"},{"start":7344.564,"end":7369.154,"text":"謝謝委員 跟委員補充兩點第一點 剛剛來部長所提的那個數據那是經過我們一學年的運作那第二點是這個有沒有要結合輔導機師當時的討論是如果太緊密結合學生會覺得他不過只是想要調適一下卻被拿來增加很多輔導機師他們會有顧慮而不敢申請所以這一點我們會用我們比較專業的輔導方式來協助謝謝"},{"start":7372.135,"end":7394.244,"text":"比較羅興的那最後呢我們現在明顯的就是說我們也可以講說我們的學校的氣候已經變天了這個是一個危機我們當然當然也是要非常的關心那我們這樣的一個情形壓力學生的壓力老師的壓力那這個危機會影響到我們未來的一個國家的競爭力那"},{"start":7400.326,"end":7423.246,"text":"請問部長 那我們又要如何來提升這樣的一個國家競爭力我想當然最基本的 因為台灣沒有天然資源 我們靠的就是人才所以每一個教育階段 把每一個小孩子 每一位學生把他教好我想這是最直接的一個提升國家競爭力最直接的一個方式"},{"start":7423.706,"end":7448.421,"text":"那剛剛部長還要講要調薪然後有種種的一些措施但是我要告訴部長不是你調了一千兩千那個植物價值調了一千兩千就能夠改變現在這個那個校園氣候不佳的一個狀況我想影響教師的一個工作滿意度影響的因素當然很多有時候他並不是不喜歡"},{"start":7449.562,"end":7474.095,"text":"但是他因為產業有更大的吸引力量包含我們師師的培育機制也改變過去我跟委員的年代是師大張師大高師大他們需要多少老師培養多少老師是公會的但是現在是儲備制所以變成有許多年間的生涯他當然原來他想要當老師生涯有可能改變這個狀況"},{"start":7476.756,"end":7504.267,"text":"我了解 但是現在問題就是老師呢 在學校為什麼不快樂 就是因為教師的一個尊嚴很低嘛然後呢 教育政策呢 常常改來改去啊還有就是最嚴重的就是我們學生的素質不好嘛這些都是對老師都是一個壓力然後呢 我還要再跟部長就是請教 就是有學校校長有跟我"},{"start":7505.888,"end":7524.051,"text":"提過在高中的時候早期就是有教官那現在教官已經退出校園了所以在管理學生的這個部分對給學校老師產生行政的一個壓力那當初這些教官要退出校園的時候有沒有做配套"},{"start":7524.451,"end":7548.511,"text":"沒有啊現在的所有的工作都留到給現任的那個老師增加這個壓力增加行政工作那我請教一下現在的那個校長每一次到下學期的時候要請行政人員來擔任行政工作的時候都找不到那這就是一個問題嘛就是給老師很大的一個壓力嘛那我們要如何的來"},{"start":7549.993,"end":7562.541,"text":"退出校園了那如何讓這個老師跟行政人員能夠分開來分治校園裡面有教官過世於世來自因為金正時期當然台灣隨著民主化的一個過程裡面對對對那現在我要問的那個部長是"},{"start":7566.264,"end":7594.78,"text":"你的配套配套配套的有校安人員的一個補助那另外國中原來沒有教官他是管理組長嘛在那個學務處的管理組長嘛當然每一個家每一個小孩都是家庭的寶也是台灣未來的希望所以我們在給小孩子有一個更好的一個發展的一個成長環境我們在國中也去年也補了600多位的這個校安人力去協助這一個"},{"start":7596.02,"end":7617.467,"text":"國中在許多的一些校園的一些這個更安全更友善的一個環境上的營造我們也希望不要讓老師兼太多的行政工作讓老師回歸在教學的部分讓他們能夠提升教學品質老師回到教學的本業這是對的"},{"start":7622.069,"end":7646.248,"text":"但是因為我們國民教育法裡邊開宗明義 國民教育就是培養德智體群美 五意均衡發展所以老師不是只有 特別在小學生這一個他不是只有學科的教學養老的情緒 人格 態度 生活 習慣的養成這個不可否認的當然是要前面的一個教育 這個沒有錯但是呢 我們就是說"},{"start":7648.311,"end":7663.801,"text":"最後能夠行政能夠專業化老師當然這個剛剛講的5億是老師的一個要教學的一個內容沒有錯行政工作能夠分治我希望我們能夠朝這樣的一個方向來走"},{"start":7664.702,"end":7681.896,"text":"也聽到第一層的這些老師的一些聲音所以我們在去年就把全面的檢討了我們這個目前對中小學老師地方到底要求什麼樣的許多的一些表格什麼樣的資料的申請我們大概150向里兵我們減少了將近70%就行政的減量我想"},{"start":7688.321,"end":7691.385,"text":"因為教育部開始在行政減量那地方縣市教育局處"},{"start":7708.669,"end":7733.961,"text":"有時候增加的時候他都算教育部的說教育部要求我想這也跟委員做這樣一個補充說好那最後呢我要跟部長分享的是說我們要有幸福的老師才能教出幸福的孩子那當學校的心理健康還有就是心理健康要落實那對學生的學習的一個成效呢才能夠有加成的一個效應"},{"start":7735.542,"end":7756.379,"text":"因此我們希望能夠將教師的幸福感還有心理健康教育能夠納入國家的一個品質關鍵的指標希望我們一起來努力今天我們有一些請教教育部的有順便一個計畫或報告也能夠送到本辦來"},{"start":7759.321,"end":7786.661,"text":"谢谢 谢谢委员关心也指正我想对老师怎么创造老师的幸福感我们一起努力这也是我们重要的我同意它是一个很重要的教育品质之一是 好 那我们一起努力好 谢谢好 谢谢蔡春桥委员的咨询请部长回座下一位有请陈秀宝委员那等一下吴思瑶委员寻到完毕之后我们休息五分钟秀宝委员请"},{"start":7793.345,"end":7795.586,"text":"教育部有透露將研議修改規定將毒品唾液篩檢"},{"start":7814.833,"end":7837.12,"text":"來引入校園希望可以改善傳統的尿檢法對於新興藥物像伊托米酯這樣子代謝比較快的毒品比較難用尿檢法檢出來這個問題我想請教部長目前有規劃具體的時程嗎後續這個毒品的唾液快篩要如何分配到學校我們如何執行是不是已經有開始討論了請部長說明一下"},{"start":7837.92,"end":7852.151,"text":"這次的公文報告我想這個引入快篩它確實是有助於讓我們及早發現學生的許多的一些不當的一些毒品的一些接觸那詳細的是不是我請我們學特斯"},{"start":7853.449,"end":7881.19,"text":"那請市長市長委員報告那因為那個毒品快篩的這個部分其實我們已經有在委託市長來幫我們修正相關的要點還有一些相關的一些補充的一些措施那這個部分我們也在跟內政部警政署有研議那有加入內政部警政署他的一些毒品快篩的共同採購契約那這部分我們是希望在今年的9月能夠上路那這個部分如果採購順利的話是希望9月可以上路這樣子"},{"start":7881.75,"end":7894.57,"text":"現在在九月剩下半年的時間所以你要如何執行 學校要如何配合包括相關的人力 包括對象 包括怎麼執行其實必須要有一個很具體的時程安排你們已經有這樣子具體的討論出來嗎"},{"start":7897.935,"end":7915.585,"text":"對這部分呢我們那個施大的研究案出來之後我們會就找各縣市然後會辦理相關的一些研析那第一線的一些教官還有校安人力可以知道說可以讓怎麼樣的運用這個毒品快篩的這個試劑那是不是說等你們整個的研究的這個"},{"start":7917.806,"end":7932.3,"text":"過程了解之後呢你們開始做討論跟縣市不管是教育局處或者是相關能力做這些相關的執行的討論的時候有進展請把你們的這個報告可以給我辦公室讓我了解說你們再來是怎麼做安排好嗎"},{"start":7933.582,"end":7952.299,"text":"好謝謝委員好那部長以後公民團體建業除了這個唾液的快篩之外呢也可以考慮配合第二層的檢測就是所謂的夜巷晨曦的串聯質譜讓這個快篩呢如果有偽陽性或是有爭議的時候呢可以做一些相關的這個依據部長您認為呢部長這一個部分確實是"},{"start":7959.586,"end":7975.834,"text":"這超乎我的專業的想像但是就快篩 拖曳的一個快篩對學校來講事實上是最方便但如果有一個更能夠更精這一個更好的一個方式我想這一個部分我們來看學生有沒有"},{"start":7976.619,"end":7990.984,"text":"跟委員報告 因為我們想要用那個快篩的步 推一快篩主要是因為因為那個像一坨米子這樣的一個新型肚皮這是第二層 對 它代謝很快 所以我們才用推一快篩但是推一快篩它只是快篩 所以"},{"start":7991.764,"end":8021.023,"text":"不管有没有实施快筛最后我们都还是要送尿检那尿检这个要一筛检这个才是最正确的部分所以快筛只是我们初步的一个快筛而已所以后面我们都还是会送尿检其实除了这个毒品的检验之外我们只是说对学生比较一个这样子的检测之外呢本席也认为说像图片中这样子的一些毒品食物展示向学生来宣导毒品的多变性也真的确实让学生可以对"},{"start":8021.603,"end":8041.804,"text":"類似的物品有警惕有警覺比較容易去辨識所以我希望教育部這邊可以多辦理類似這樣毒品宣導讓學生有警覺心那提高他們辨識就是毒品就是類似毒品的話我們就趕快去避免才能夠真正防止毒品進入校園那我想請問教育部你們可以安排這樣子類似的毒品宣導的課程"},{"start":8044.324,"end":8068.57,"text":"根文報告我們確實在宣導裡面事實上已經做到入班以目前來講114年我們總共有5702班直接到班上去做宣導那另外我們還有透過一些一教一樂的用戲劇的一些團體藝術團體到學校裡面去做反讀的一些宣導就是說我們事實上是多面向的"},{"start":8069.13,"end":8097.611,"text":"所以已經有在做其實本席也是支持也是肯定說這是有效果的也希望說這樣子的班次是不是才可以開更多我們除了有一些大規模的場合就是說已經做到入班然後還有音樂團體這個藝術團體這是對於校園的安全學生的安全還有來自影子我們企業界也關心這個他們也在許多許多的這一些民間的企業團體他們也幫忙在做這樣的一個宣導"},{"start":8098.612,"end":8103.234,"text":"我希望說在這個部分我們可以更積極謝謝部長接下來我們也是要關心學生權益的部分接下來是考試的部分我們108課綱為了要適應洋財在學測階段就將數學分流成數A跟數B一般就是我們區分成自然組跟社會組的學生來報考"},{"start":8121.161,"end":8126.826,"text":"但是我们根据这个统计资料显示呢这112的学测及113的学测分别有高达61.22%以及60.65%就超过六成的学生是数A数B都报考"},{"start":8137.654,"end":8157.154,"text":"那所以这也导致说社会主的学生可能会受到比较大的影响因为数A数B虽然说他命题及考试内容针对的部分是不太一样但是其实数B大部分的考题是可以用数A的这个逻辑观念来解题的那自然主的学生呢他可以相对来讲是觉得是比较简单的来跨考"},{"start":8157.935,"end":8179.828,"text":"那造成說社會主的學生恐怕會面臨更大的競爭跟壓力而且很多學生他是要考量說未來在大學校系可能希望可以有更多的選擇所以呢他們都會數A數B全包所以導致說學生他要花更多的時間來學兩套考試的內容更多時間來準備甚至需要另外去補習我想請教部長"},{"start":8182.83,"end":8190.49,"text":"您覺得說數A數B的分流上我們是不是可以有更妥善的做法來降低社會主學生所受到的影響"},{"start":8191.97,"end":8217.089,"text":"謝謝委員這個議題其實本來就是我們當初的一個設計的利益就是能夠視性選才每一個學生高中生也開始去思考他的一個生涯的一個發展走向早期是只有一個數學不管你要選人文社會或者理工全部都是一個數學現在把它分流就是希望說學生能夠本以他的一個興趣來發展"},{"start":8217.91,"end":8236.13,"text":"但是有超過六成對 但是現在這個變成有六成這個部分我想我們會我們再來看怎麼樣去兼顧學生的生涯發展又能夠讓這個這個秩序上的資料的選擇裡面因為其實108課綱這個多元學型適性發展本身也是認同的"},{"start":8240.435,"end":8253.59,"text":"但是我們要重視到不同類組學生的權益這麼高比例的跨考其實跟我們108課剛這個事情發展我們要做數學分流這樣的初中本意是背道而馳的"},{"start":8254.724,"end":8278.462,"text":"本來分流還有一個包含他學習過程裡面他能夠因為分流讓他有更好的學習他就可以轉到A的這個A班嘛部長 超過六成耶所以這個跟我們本來的本意我覺得是沒有做到位而且反而增加學生的壓力我們來跟等於說一線上的部長"},{"start":8279.483,"end":8297.919,"text":"其實很多學生家長有希望說那你既然分數A跟數B你就同堂考試你不要分堂嘛那讓你要選擇的學生你就很確認很正確的去選擇你要數A或數B然後擇一應考這樣的方式可以嗎"},{"start":8299.574,"end":8314.868,"text":"這個我想我們還是來研究因為確實在民主的一個寶貴的精神就是多元那我們學生他事實上是有多項的一個興趣如果你一定要用一刀兩切的一個方式我想這個我們會後我們來研議"},{"start":8317.771,"end":8344,"text":"剛才本席所說的其實你這麼高比例的跨考跟你本來要做分流的這個初中就本來就一看就知道說跟你本來這個好意學生在他選擇上來講並沒有照著你們所想的這樣去做他兩組都要考兩套教材他們都要準備那當然對理科的學生來講他的理解力這樣子來考兩組的考試他可能就覺得沒有那麼負擔我同意當然如果在數學他本來就是比較優"},{"start":8348.442,"end":8368.504,"text":"這個學習比較好的他確實在考數B的時候是比較駕輕就熟的那對只選擇數B的學生他也不得不去選擇數A但是他沒有這個優勢啊因為其實一般念文組的學生他本來在這個理科的這個理解力或者是他在這個數學的運算能力可能就沒有數理科的這麼強"},{"start":8369.545,"end":8391.483,"text":"那這樣相對下來會造成他們的壓力跟他們的負擔所以這個部分我希望教育部你們這邊可以研議相關的配套而且兩個月之內你把你們的書面報告我們來看怎麼考召的制度能夠更精進我們在會後再跟委員做報告好 就麻煩部長了 謝謝好 謝謝陳秀寶委員的質詢 請部長回座接下來有請吳思瑤委員質詢 請"},{"start":8404.831,"end":8414.325,"text":"谢谢主席有请郑部长请郑部长备询今天的主题跟高教跟国教都有关系很好"},{"start":8415.297,"end":8436.469,"text":"大家辛苦那今天我剛剛有聽到林議警委員也針對轉型正義有提出他的一些觀點那我希望也能夠補強一些我給教育部的建議轉型正義就要從教育下手教育部是主角而不是配角我們除了頒布了行動綱領我們的行動更要具體化"},{"start":8438.09,"end":8440.212,"text":"轉型正義就在我們每一天的生活裡"},{"start":8467.97,"end":8485.028,"text":"那吳思瑤跟你一樣啦只是你比我高一級你是已經認列為台獨的頑固分子那吳思瑤現在只是台獨的打手幫兇也就是我在幫助你這樣子你會怕嗎?中國對你的跨境鎮壓"},{"start":8490.152,"end":8508.297,"text":"會怕嗎我無憂無懼無憂無懼因為您是優雅的台灣人對於壞鄰居冠上的名稱你會一笑置之而且會更秉持著教育基本法我們培育人才推動愛台灣的愛國教育守護台灣的民主自由吳思耀跟你一樣"},{"start":8509.517,"end":8521.667,"text":"有一天如果我也能夠榮登跟您榜上列在一起我會覺得更大的光榮我會持續的努力但是從這件事情下一頁搭配著現在轉型正義"},{"start":8522.878,"end":8548.07,"text":"的一個特快車我認為我們教育部就應當借力使力跟上這一股的熱潮搭上這班列車轉型正義是全台灣公民的民主的補課我們需要更多覺醒的賈永傑那教育部是主角不是配角雖然我知道你們剛剛說你只有兩個人力我們來看怎麼做好下一頁國際是這樣做的"},{"start":8550.791,"end":8568.044,"text":"德國呢他們用追討回來的不義黨產大概40億來成立了一個評估的委員會他們的做法是設立圖書館展示文物他們支持公司裡的文化事物包括各類的出版跟展覽"},{"start":8568.965,"end":8586.207,"text":"他們當然也鼓勵非常多的寫作他們也進行國際合作他們更提供學術的補助以及設獎學金你可以想想我們哪裡沒做到所以我說這裡有高教的工作也有國教的工作好 下一頁"},{"start":8587.268,"end":8602.429,"text":"加拿大他们的转型正义是对原住民族的历史的平反所以不外乎是针对原住民族受迫害的那些受迫害的那一段的历史真相呢来强化教育他的做法也是给补助"},{"start":8603.09,"end":8622.313,"text":"然後呢要從課程來進行教學不外乎都是這些做法看看波蘭喔波蘭是更生活化的他們設計非常多生活化的桌遊跟教具然後呢這個國家記憶研究院其實就等同於我們過去現在退場的促轉會一樣"},{"start":8623.374,"end":8643.022,"text":"会定期提供学校出版品举办教师的研习活动而且来进行受难者的访谈现身说法这更有说服力然后进行全国性的展览我用这些国际例子是让您想一想我们还有哪些可以做更多下一页"},{"start":8644.042,"end":8670.287,"text":"我在促進轉型正義條例2016修法的時候吳思瑤的版本就是把促轉基金追討回來的不義黨產除了國家原始的用途要用在長照跟社福之外我把它增加可以用在人權教育跟轉型正義相關的文化事務所以我們要爭取這個促轉基金的使用"},{"start":8671.047,"end":8695.856,"text":"而促轉會退場之後呢教育部就應當跟跨部會一起來進行合作教育部當然是人權教育為主但我們應當跟文化部保存的不義遺址或政治檔案的研究多多合作我都提點到這裡下頁我們的這個馬上要到期的轉型正義的行動剛臨"},{"start":8698.171,"end":8720.808,"text":"到2026年2023到2026年是第一期請問你們有第二階段嗎跟委員報告有的我們這一個豬市長他現在在統合會有第二階段非常好那我希望未來也建議主席我們能夠有轉型正義的專報所以有2.0對不對確定會有是幾年期的呢市長"},{"start":8722.898,"end":8734.068,"text":"跟委員報告我們是明年開始是4年4年4上1 1 6好 那預算呢但是我們用1加4的方式我們今年就會先超過好 那預算也多少足夠嗎"},{"start":8735.236,"end":8742.44,"text":"原則上我們會再申請促轉基金的協助但是教育部也會允許我們一些給我們機會的相關資料允許後來跟我說一個你們的新的規劃好嗎那我希望您能夠納入我剛剛的一些國際經驗我現在要分享給部長給次長的就是不用怕雖然只有兩個人力我覺得不夠啦還是要擴編啦"},{"start":8755.788,"end":8782.086,"text":"但是跨部会的下手合作以及跟公司合作其实是一个很好建立实力的方法因为民间非常多这样子的NGO我们可以去合作下一页我提供您几个建议第一个国教端鼓励教案的多元开发融入课程第二个跨部会plus公司协力来提出多元的活动"},{"start":8782.927,"end":8805.235,"text":"第三結合沉浸式的體驗教育就是現在文化部教育部在做很多文化體驗的課程把它搭配進去而且要注意是現地的教學on-site learning這是國教端我的三個期許而高教端呢我更鼓勵我們現在的大學部分學校有針對轉型正義有通識課程我認為可以鼓勵"},{"start":8808.976,"end":8829.705,"text":"以及我們可以鼓勵這方面的研究設立獎學金也是一個可以的方向我的這些中整的意見請問朱次長對於通識教育還有設轉學獎學金來鼓勵轉型正義的學術領域的研究可以參採吧"},{"start":8832.012,"end":8848.304,"text":"跟委員報告委員剛才所提的不管從國際的一個經驗到國教端跟高教端都這個深化這個轉型正義都非常具體可行我想我們會把它納入2.0納入2.0的這個轉型正義的一個綱好我最後有三頁很簡單就安你們的心你們可以在現有少少的人力當然我希望擴充人力跟能量好下一頁怎麼做呢"},{"start":8859.311,"end":8877.354,"text":"這些人權故事車去巡迴校園 吳思瑤也爭取了到北投的學校人權故事的展覽還有舞台劇 這個很好 校園在巡迴人權素養的教具箱有非常多元的教具還有"},{"start":8878.055,"end":8897.184,"text":"下面这个桌游的开发台湾文学馆做的以上这四个事情其实都是文化部在做文化部的文化馆社在做你们要跟他们搭上线人权叫故事车多来一些学校对不对人权故事行动的舞台剧或是展览多去我们的下乡"},{"start":8898.625,"end":8922.712,"text":"這些多元的桌遊課程都可以跟這些人權館或文學館來合作這些是不用你們的人甚至不用太多你們的錢搭便車好嗎然後促轉會過去也有非常多的當事人入校的一個分享這些我們都是跨部會可以搭便車的在下一頁"},{"start":8923.852,"end":8938.364,"text":"這些是現有的課程我們都有各校的文化美感的教學這是融入課程的我建議過去都去很多兩廳院故宮北美館高美館衛武營都很好"},{"start":8939.045,"end":8961.191,"text":"融入对于人权管或者是不义移植都是扩充这些选项而已不用花太多钱直接纳入就好on-site learning是UNESCO定定最有效的遗产教育的方式好最后一个这个也是刚刚讲有很多管所"},{"start":8962.111,"end":8984.262,"text":"其實人權管是我們要擴大合作的單位我過去歷次 當然我是這一次在兩年後再回到教育文化委員會這是我2023整理的資料我們讓學生的校外教學前進人權管是逐年遞減的我不知道為什麼 這是2023的統計搭上這一股台灣的公民的民主補課"},{"start":8986.044,"end":9009.294,"text":"其实你不用有这些大家现在都去看自由的花蕊大家都去人权管但是教育部的责任教育部是主角不是配角对于人权管跟不义移植的这些融入校外教学的选择我们真的可以来推广出去我提供的这些建议都是在现在只有两个人力的状况之下马上就可以做的"},{"start":9009.774,"end":9038.675,"text":"至於如何去擴充extend 2.0的部分我希望後續還有時間跟大家做更多元的討論但是不要忘了不是只有國教高教有相當大的責任好不好我今天提供給我們台獨頑固分子鄭英耀部長我們就要做更多當我們被中國鎖定我們代表我們做對了很多事我們毫無恐懼好所以我們都可以走了"},{"start":9039.721,"end":9057.726,"text":"感謝委員的一個指導我想我們都非常的一個具體也是我們很多東西跟我們目前的規劃方向是一樣包含高等教育裡面我們怎麼樣去創新教學計畫裡面就把它融入或者大學的USR我想我們會前面來很好USR是可以擴大的我們後續希望能夠有這樣的專題分享我們來進一步研議USR非常好我倒還沒有納入我們可以來做謝謝"},{"start":9068.709,"end":9073.375,"text":"謝謝吳斯堯委員的質詢請部長回座我們現在休息五分鐘謝謝"},{"start":9165.249,"end":9167.828,"text":"現在我就給他換了還是有還是有我給他放這裡好了"},{"start":9386.611,"end":9412.131,"text":"現在繼續開會 下一位有請葛如軍委員進行詢答好 謝謝主席 有請教育部鄭義耀部長好 請鄭義耀部長上備詢台 謝謝"},{"start":9418.499,"end":9435.755,"text":"委員好部長好剛剛有提到台獨頑固分子我想沒有AI主權就沒有獨立主權我想AI的人才技術真的是下一個世代最重要的也包括教育部長不知道有沒有看過周星馳的電影"},{"start":9436.856,"end":9456.812,"text":"我是星爺的粉絲在電影《九品芝麻官》裡面有一句非常經典的台詞拿明朝的劍斬清朝的官我看到部長你都在笑顯然你可能也是粉絲我至少看過這部片用來比喻舊時代的制度來治理新時代的現象這邏輯是荒謬而且語法無據的部長"},{"start":9457.552,"end":9476.907,"text":"既然不能用明朝的建來展清朝的官為什麼我們可以用3G時代所制定的課綱來教育5G的孩子呢我想部長您的笑容怎麼臉上消失了這真的很不好笑而且非常離譜當3G的時代的通信已經在2024年6月30號已經全面在台灣關閉以後"},{"start":9478.368,"end":9493.437,"text":"同個年代的產物也就是108課綱仍然被奉為台灣中小學教育的閨念本席一直向來都非常關心台灣數位科技教育的推展那部長啊我也必須要非常感念您啊2024年的7月份呢對於108課綱的說法說"},{"start":9498.223,"end":9518.961,"text":"明確地講法律沒有明確規定每十年要大改一次因此沒有118課綱但是會對於科技領域的課綱進行局部微調加入AI以及數學學習的內容這是您的原話結果將近兩年的時間過去直到今天我們登上國教院的網站科技領域的課綱"},{"start":9519.662,"end":9534.899,"text":"依然是107年就是2018年9月份所制定的3G時代的東西部長承諾的AI以及數學學習的部分目前只聞樓梯響部長 近來有很多科技大廠就在呼籲人才 人才 人才"},{"start":9535.64,"end":9561.893,"text":"能源能源能源那能源呢我們也看到賴清德總統已經說要從幾何店要願意放下神主牌人才的部分我們則沒有看到教育部有任何的回應甚至前幾天公平會來公布深層市人工智慧報告明確指出業界普遍認為台灣現階段人才培育速度難以跟上需求請教部長教育部何時能夠完成科技領域課綱的微調"},{"start":9564.091,"end":9580.166,"text":"跟委員報告 確實在這個AI的一個時代裡邊我們一直 我們看在108客康裡邊它就有科技領域 科技水養是 要微調嘛對不起 我時間很有限你不要再重複我的問題我問你什麼時候可以完成啦"},{"start":9581.192,"end":9602.281,"text":"我們現在就在做我們現在的課程從課程教學跟老師的真容我們現在事實上都一直在做那什麼時候嘛我就說什麼時候做到什麼時候啊因為108課綱是科技素養嘛在科技素養裡面就直接我們就談AI不再談3G了好那我們就來看先看教育部的回文說108課綱"},{"start":9605.895,"end":9628.326,"text":"據前瞻性已經可以將世界趨勢產業發展大陸學生的學習本部未維持現行課綱的穩定性沒有要修改也沒有要微調啊部長這是2026年的教育部要打臉你2024年的正部長嗎還是您底下的這些同仁陽奉陰違不遵守部長微調108課長的指示呢"},{"start":9629.416,"end":9645.508,"text":"我想這裡邊可能當時話沒有講清楚跟我很抱歉因為主要在科技素養裡邊本來我們過去可能是教教這個PE2但是現在我們實際就進AI就是說同樣都是一個進AI我們現在講的是課綱啦我們現在講課綱啦課綱有沒有AI"},{"start":9650.413,"end":9677.128,"text":"很前瞻性嘛 前瞻性啊哇 又前瞻性又有世界趨勢好 那我來請教部長你說我們有科技領域課綱嘛 對不對有前瞻嘛 AI嘛 請部長猜一下這本課綱從頭到尾出現過幾次人工智慧 幾次AI 知不知道很前瞻嘛 世界趨勢嘛 出現幾次這麼重要的文件"},{"start":9678.464,"end":9706.496,"text":"部長竟然沒有概念啊科技領域的中等學校的課綱出現幾次人工智慧答案部長不知道對不對跟我們報告這個幾次真的我不曉得這一本課綱啊從頭到尾只出現過一次啦只有一次四個字就是人工智慧這樣更誇張的AI這兩個字啊完全沒有提啊所以我們的學生在學的時候到底AI人工智慧"},{"start":9707.543,"end":9722.494,"text":"完整的理念是完全不足的早在2016年谷歌的人工智慧就已經在棋盤上面委員是這一個領域的專家當然我們教育部如果有不足的歡迎委員跟我來做專業的指導我現在就點出問題嘛我現在點出問題我們一起來解決啦"},{"start":9725.856,"end":9748.871,"text":"那現在我們其實看到這個真的不能再怠惰下去了我們真的是希望贏回2024年的鄭部長啊我們真的應該要趕快微調了不要再只是講我們有在做什麼時候我們現在部長您看啊兩任兩本是前任部長一本是您啊這個AI指引嘛用普丁的方式在搞我們的AI教育這樣夠嗎"},{"start":9750.572,"end":9777.649,"text":"我想這可能還是完全不夠的真的能讓學生認識AI 了解AI 善用AI嗎那我們認為啦AI還有所謂AI素養數位素養都完全不夠課綱裡面對AI的描述也完全不足那我想要考一下這個部長啊數位世界裡面的數位素養要去理解它 學習它大家常用emoji來這個社群互動啊部長看一下很好的範例喔這個女星安海社會開通最帳號啦前"},{"start":9779.671,"end":9789.681,"text":"總統蔡英文底下留言三個小圖示部長可不可以幫忙我們全國的資深翻譯一下這三個小圖示是什麼意思看一下部長您的素未素養"},{"start":9795.593,"end":9820.35,"text":"請委員指導這一題我是讓分耶 這個很簡單 你看那個主席都在笑了我很佩服啊 蔡前總統的小編太厲害 這個叫做真羨慕啦很羨慕的意思啦安海社會的那個真羨是脆的意思啦 這串在一起的意思沒有關係 這個梗就是樹為樹養的一部分啦那我覺得有人會不知道 有人會知道"},{"start":9821.03,"end":9828.952,"text":"也許我們下一步 部長我們也可以來補充一下那也再做一下測驗啦這個emoji是什麼意思左邊是什麼翻譯一下這沒有陷阱啦 部長就是你現在的表情啦笑啦 開心啦中間呢 中間翻譯成中文是什麼也是笑 喜極而泣"},{"start":9848.644,"end":9863.613,"text":"笑到掉眼淚好啦可以啦笑哭啦那第三個是什麼這比較難了這比較難了試試看倒立著笑是不是笑翻過來也不錯很有創意"},{"start":9865.243,"end":9892.763,"text":"這叫陰陽怪氣的意思啦部長我們用這個賴總統尷尬又不失禮貌的微笑來這個對您的程度我只能給你這樣的一個微笑啦那我們在看AI素養數位素養我再請部長看一段影片判斷一下這是不是AI偽造的訊息美國第一夫人梅蘭妮與AI機器人一同亮相的影片就在白宮啊白宮的背景啊"},{"start":9894.235,"end":9922.02,"text":"部長 你覺得這是AI偽造的假影片嗎確實現在的假影片確實是這是真的還假的啦 部長部長很好 我覺得部長這個精神很棒要很仔細看才能回答 沒錯這要給部長一個肯定我跟部長報告啦這是 要不要說一下嘛"},{"start":9924.38,"end":9941.23,"text":"您是你不行啊部長你這樣子不能逃避寫答案的那個責任這您像我質詢您要回答好不好我同意我一定遵照委員的意思來辦來做沒有啦沒關係部長說不出來沒關係啦因為委員是理業的專家我不敢在委員的面前部長"},{"start":9942.752,"end":9956.073,"text":"對 謝謝 謝謝沒有沒有 大家都不夠專家我們AI時代所有人都在同一條起跑線上所以要教育部拜託要讓我們在新的起跑線上讓所有的學生都要能夠往前衝這部影片是真的"},{"start":9957.194,"end":9980.21,"text":"為什麼?因為他的這個帳號是有一個金色勾勾Twitter2022年就發布了金色勾勾就是企業的帳號而這個影像完全是真實的AI時代不是只是手機裡面的AI是走出來了走在白宮裡面啊結果我們的課綱科技領域隊人工智慧提到一次四個字人工智慧懂不懂啊部長"},{"start":9981.611,"end":9996.746,"text":"這種科技教育原地踏步我想不是只是您在這裡說委員我尊重我謝謝您的精神但要take actionaction talks louder than words好不好拜託我們事實上現在有規劃了一個未來人才AI的能力圖像"},{"start":9999.414,"end":10025.3,"text":"好啦我知道部長您自己也有點要笑哭了啦這個我們都知道同仁也很努力不夠好不好真的不夠這個稿子我都知道同仁準備很努力真的不夠啦課綱微調好不好課綱科技的部分的微調2024年的您不要打臉2024年的你自己啦那最後我爭取一點時間啦其實芬蘭有一些例子我希望教育部的同仁可以去研議啦"},{"start":10026.38,"end":10051.472,"text":"他接下來要強調數位參與權要作為基本公民權每個人都要有平等使用AI的機會目標很具體喔住在偏鄉的阿嬤都要懂AI這是芬蘭部長本席先前有提醒過教育部AI要大力推廣而且要在終身教育全面的推廣上次質詢完以後教育部有沒有加強終身教育階段的AI教育資源"},{"start":10052.757,"end":10077.831,"text":"這個確實我們在中生教育這個社區大學裡邊我們也請這個中生師能夠跟社區大學裡邊能夠管開類似的一些AI科技教育的部分就是科技教育我們現在事實上我也去看了這個彰化的一個社區大學裡邊我們看到一個80歲的女士也在操作"},{"start":10078.311,"end":10105.956,"text":"這是很好的很好的例子謝謝教育部但是本席也整理過了台灣的學生或者所有人最常使用的AI工具要錢的對吧有20美金的600塊台幣的有6000塊台幣的知行要合一我謝謝有提供知的教育知道但是用付費的跟付很貴的費用的到底差在哪裡學生有沒有那個能力去知道"},{"start":10107.145,"end":10109.875,"text":"有沒有這個能力知道我想這一個當然"},{"start":10111.175,"end":10136.684,"text":"老師在上課的其實怎麼樣去做那老師有沒有辦法報帳去付錢去教學有沒有這樣的預算跟我們報告當我們這一個這一個AI這一個方舟人才培育計畫我們確實考慮到是不是在老師的教學裡面也能夠有一些部分的經費的一些補助太好了太好了我們確實是有這樣對已經在討論這一個議題"},{"start":10140.205,"end":10145.912,"text":"好 要做好不好不要我們每次問AI的時候再討論你2024年討論到現在了我們當然中央跟地方來合作看怎麼樣能夠因為老師在交接時他會用到這個附會的軟體"},{"start":10155.783,"end":10170.88,"text":"部長你們的高度還是很重要啦先前我們曾經引用Global AI Index台灣賣AI全球第一用AI全球第二十一遠遠落後新加坡日本韓國啦我這都已經倒背如流了部長文化部的文化幣是很棒的政策"},{"start":10171.877,"end":10192.343,"text":"教育部有沒有辦法研議AIB我們已經講了一整年了啦剛剛提到的偏鄉阿嬤用AIB可以來用付費的AI老師可以用AIB來教學生學生可以用AIB來體驗付費的AI跟沒付費的差別在哪這也是學習對AIB發放進程有沒有什麼具體的進展"},{"start":10194.731,"end":10214.311,"text":"最後我想我們內部我們來討論這個我們會持續跟同仁保持緊密的聯繫我想主席也會認同這真的太重要那我最後給部長一個非常重要的idea這是open source的idea 開源的部長我們研議內部做了很多討論教育部所屬的圖書館"},{"start":10216.288,"end":10241.13,"text":"可不可以率先做起成為台灣數位平權的領頭羊管管有AI這不是只是喊話而已圖書館裡面的電腦可不可以有AI訂閱的服務可不可以訂20塊美金的可不可以訂200塊美金的只要你有一個借書證你可以去使用這台電腦你可以體驗一下付費的AI畫出來的圖字都不會歪"},{"start":10242.131,"end":10262.473,"text":"付費的AI畫出來的寫出來的文章它可以教導我很多的知識呢AI就像一個有汪洋大海的圖書館而且它還可以跟你一起協作管管有AI的目標讓教育部所屬的圖書館成為台灣民眾接觸先進科技的平台的第一站跟媒介有沒有機會"},{"start":10264.096,"end":10291.101,"text":"有沒有機會部長這idea真的很棒謝謝委員這一個非常專業也非常良善的一個建議我想我們來做太讚了部長可不可以在一個月內將相關研議結果書面提供給本席初步就好了一個月真的因為AI真的走得很快我們糧食廠來跟委員來做報告最後我今天真的非常感謝主席願意讓我借用這麼多的時間我最後要跟部長分享"},{"start":10292.401,"end":10307.8,"text":"芬蘭真的例子可以參考其實那個觀光有AI他們也在做部分我們一定可以做得比他更好那因為為什麼每一個AI的晶片都台灣在賣的嘛我們應該要讓台灣的每一個孩子都更加的能夠使用到AI那還有一個很重要的議題啦"},{"start":10308.661,"end":10329.356,"text":"芬蘭不僅一己之力躍升AI科技強國並且大力推廣免費的政府做的免費的AI線上課程叫Elements of AI他除了加會他自己本國的國名還把這個課程免費送給歐盟所以現在歐洲很多國家170個國家透過200萬人的超過200萬人透過這個平台來瞭解AI部長"},{"start":10334.5,"end":10354.057,"text":"全球有12到14億的人口使用中文那當然我們美麗的繁中也是有很多人在使用那今天教育部有沒有辦法抓緊時機讓14億人利用繁體中文的教材來學習AI我們最了解AI我們中華民國我們台灣是最了解AI的"},{"start":10355.066,"end":10370.774,"text":"要了解AI 看台灣要了解AI 看台灣的繁體中文我看到官員也都點頭了這個我們有沒有辦法更積極呀來推動一個真正的AI教程可以跟課綱為調一起進行好不好 有沒有辦法有開麥嗎"},{"start":10380.029,"end":10388.291,"text":"AI人才方舟計畫我們就會做這一個事情我想我們一起來研議部長AI發展一日千里"},{"start":10389.437,"end":10409.856,"text":"希望教育部可以发AI币这是民进党执政有可能一个非常重要的得证我们也不分党派我们也赞美文化币我们也赞美运动币可是人才教育AI的对接小米社会的断层促进数位的平权提升科技的禁用这是不分党派的"},{"start":10410.636,"end":10430.629,"text":"內容教育的提升14億中文人口學習AI的機會就掌握在部長您的手上好不好這一點我們希望一起來努力提升我們台灣在AI世界的話語權好 謝謝謝謝AI立委葛如君委員的豐富質詢請部長回座接下來有請謝龍介委員質詢"},{"start":10445.427,"end":10458.954,"text":"主席我請補充有請部長雙倍訊臺補充你好請教這個老師越來越會你跟這個砍公教退休金有關嗎陳佩玉說沒有啦我相信你教書出身的你有很多同學"},{"start":10471.718,"end":10482.325,"text":"你的同僚都有這個感受這是一個事實 但是這已經過去的事情就是說以前我們總有算一條七千多億到一條九千億說未來災情會很困難所以請大家共體時間來檢驗一些退休金運動機時也同意"},{"start":10496.235,"end":10507.54,"text":"結果不知道現在變三成了,民進黨說他接種了不錯,災情越來越好,一年比一年好,結果同期時間,台北市的角度都不一樣所以這點是很重要的原因,所以今天修法,你如果拿不出對策,他們會說種的不白,聽的到六倍,那是不好的,要對症下藥"},{"start":10523.531,"end":10541.791,"text":"當受治療比喻擁護啊老師基本上不會受到紊亂又不能退休又沒辦法有保障什麼人要做老師啊回到同期時的你啦現在的你跟同期時的你那現在的你 你是不可能再去做老師啊 覺得是這樣"},{"start":10543.831,"end":10552.434,"text":"跟委員報告喔 我真的客人比較浪漫 比較熱情喔我對高雄 一直都有興趣抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉"},{"start":10560.177,"end":10568.181,"text":"因為我不是吃不飽,因為我們現在就是說,我們對老師當然要怎麼提升他的一些服務代表我看你剛才的報告,靠靠想想都AI,不然那個AI的立委一直問你,我只會把他當,對不對越說越久,你這個AI如果沒電就AI了"},{"start":10583.24,"end":10589.183,"text":"台灣的電力 河河山重啟 這是正確的你的AI講那些 我來問看看我伺候一下請問你對於中華民國教育部對學生所規劃的AI學習課程有什麼看法來"},{"start":10612.586,"end":10631.454,"text":"他說我先用實際這個政策實際在教什麼,我的評價是優點跟問題,我幫你評價優點,跟總結來回答,第一教育部目前AI課程在教什麼,我來重點拆解,不錯耶,他說大致可以分三層,看你們會不會有問題"},{"start":10637.165,"end":10650.681,"text":"基礎成AI素養 中小學為主 認識AI是什麼 怎麼運作 理解AI在生活中的應用 學習判斷譬如用AI做語言學習 寫作輔助 練習辨識AI產生的"},{"start":10655.424,"end":10681.932,"text":"不是工程師也要懂AI啦 這是你的核心目標第二個 應用層就是跨域加上問題解決的課程核心這是你們的規則裡面教育部強調 學生要用AI處理真實問題培養解決問題跟跨域能力第三 就是進階層專業的AI課程大概就是高中大學"},{"start":10683.656,"end":10702.835,"text":"課程 程式設計 機器學習 自然語言處理跨校AI課程 甚至可以拿證書第四 教學上的一個關鍵改變好 第二 現在Chap TV已經說了我對這套AI課程的看法"},{"start":10704.96,"end":10728.177,"text":"優點我認為做得不錯是課程設計是未來導向而不是工具導向所以給你額熱的啦但是台灣課程在做的是理解AI 應用AI批判AI啦這對你來講是比較成熟跨域跨域的部分設計是正確方向再來現在他說你的問題在哪裡"},{"start":10733.715,"end":10761.622,"text":"第一 課程理念很好 但是很難教要會AI 要會設計問題要會引導討論 現實是不是每個老師都準備好了我現在要大家問的呢第二 學生容易學到表面使用 不是深度理解"},{"start":10763.035,"end":10785.555,"text":"譬如會用AI寫報告 但不知道AI怎麼錯了這是你現在面臨的問題如果沒有設計好 學生會變成AI操作員 而不是思考者我感覺不中 他把你寫得這麼有道理第三 評量方式跟不上你的課程"},{"start":10787.882,"end":10799.07,"text":"現在的課程在教創造力問題解決但是考試還是標準答案跟背誦這會導致一個矛盾課堂一套考試又是另外一套"},{"start":10800.103,"end":10819.925,"text":"哇 差這麼多 第四 課程可能會過度樂觀AI目前很多課程AI很好用 AI幫助學習 但比較少強調他的偏誤跟幻覺以及過度依賴 會讓學生低估了風險他給你一個比較直接的結論"},{"start":10822.256,"end":10847.263,"text":"這套AI課程在理念上是先進的,但在學習深度上有相當的風險講白一點,教學方向,教對方向就是跨域加素養加應用但不一定學得深,容易流於工具使用阿伯有說,如果你叫他幫你升級,他會有三件事,你自己去問AI"},{"start":10849.059,"end":10851.606,"text":"你覺得他告訴你,昨天現在的情況有接近嗎?"},{"start":10856.065,"end":10863.752,"text":"謝謝委員,真的這個GPT真的很厲害因為我們現在面臨的挑戰,老師我們目前有參加過AI的研習,重慶五萬人但是我們所有的老師二十萬人我再給你一個建議,因為我們現在的問題大家都會去問AI"},{"start":10879.747,"end":10902.361,"text":"你現在課程怎麼樣啊 那我建議你再多問幾個啦多問幾個平台 綜合這些答案 然後針對你現在對AI所提出來的課程給各級學校 大家共同 我覺得他講得很客觀喔你的問題跟你的優點都有了 然後改進方向也有了"},{"start":10903.511,"end":10924.564,"text":"這就是你剛才說他厲害嘛 但是你必須要接納他嘛如果你不接納他 你只想當一個操作者最後你就會像他剛剛講的一樣嘛不管部長也好 委員也好 學生也好我們都要自己去思考我們要運用AI不是只把它當成工具 好不好是好 謝謝我看他們委員都完全一敵了恭喜委員提起"},{"start":10930.848,"end":10952.789,"text":"好我們也特別謝謝台南點子王謝龍介委員的AI質詢請部長回座下一位我們有請陳培宇委員詢答請好謝謝主席部長是不是喝個水休息一下嗎那一樣要有請部長"},{"start":10967.343,"end":10969.084,"text":"好有請部長謝謝好請鄭部長備詢請委員好"},{"start":10977.694,"end":10991.833,"text":"我们来看第一个新闻我们感到很纳闷我们看到有相关的新闻报道说国立台中科技大学为什么要强调国立呢教育部你们的主管业务你们是他们主管我想问一下"},{"start":10992.193,"end":11012.135,"text":"相關的報導我們後來詢問了教育部問說這個校長到中國去申請補助這件事情有沒有報請教育部同意教育部給我們辦公室的回函說得非常的模糊你們只告訴我相關法規但是你們沒有告訴我台中科大目前的說法是什麼"},{"start":11012.836,"end":11034.219,"text":"第二个他当时参选的时候他必须要交一些书面资料就是他到底有没有到中国大陆地区去从事交流呢或者是他有没有去中国大陆地区做一些讲座啦那他哪一些沟有哪一些沟没有我相信你们手上有资料但是我在看你们给我回复的资料我觉得非常的荒谬到底有没有"},{"start":11034.839,"end":11043.924,"text":"說不清楚相關的法規其實規定的很清楚但是到底這個學校現況如何那教育部接下來如何問責跟確認相關事情到底是不是屬實"},{"start":11045.217,"end":11071.281,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個台中科大陳校長的這一件案例因為經媒體揭露我們教育部自己指示已經行文要學校把所有的對外界的一個指控要這個先說明清楚等於說要回覆教育部然後我們再根據他的一個回覆我們會到現場裡面再去做實地的一些這個調查了解"},{"start":11072.422,"end":11077.168,"text":"我目前行政程序目前是已經行文要學校針對外界的什麼時候發文部長什麼時候發的文我們那個"},{"start":11081.087,"end":11108.682,"text":"大聲一點謝謝跟委員報告喔那個報載之後的第二天我們就發文了那你們讓他們多久時間回應你們我們就一周內一周那他們回覆了嗎還沒還沒好那我聽說現在有地方上有聲音傳出我不確定教育部你們接下來態度會是什麼據說台中科技大學的人可能會跟你們說可能然後會說查無事實那你們怎麼辦假設你們收到這樣的回覆你們該怎麼辦"},{"start":11111.581,"end":11135.456,"text":"那個部長已經指示了我們會主專案小組依據學校所報的他們自己提供的一些資料佐證資料給我們那我們就會實際的主條的根據報導還有你們回覆的這一些我們會去做一些的查核那還有論文的部分國科會也是在做查核"},{"start":11135.856,"end":11160.864,"text":"所以教育部会跟国客会一起开会吗还是分头并进我们会分头做因为国客会只负责论文好没有问题我觉得这个态度非常的坚定而且非常的清楚有就有没有就没有有犯法就有犯法没有犯法就没有犯法我们从来没有阻止两岸学术交流但是该申报就要申报该遵守法规就要遵守法规我想态度非常的清楚以上谢谢好接下来第二个"},{"start":11162.525,"end":11189.537,"text":"学生辅导法在修法之后有非常多的执法要修订那我现在回到教文我继续追踪相关进度第一个是相关的要点那我们办公室在召开会议之后我们知道实施要点往下呢会有这个教职员原而编制准则的问题还有专业辅导人设置的办法那这边我想要直接请国教署署长回答署长我想要确认一下原而编制准则跟辅导人设置办法你们目前执法修法进度跟相关公告进度的规划"},{"start":11190.037,"end":11212.732,"text":"好謝謝首先在要點的部分會配合原則準則以及下面的第三點在行政院4月9號會審議審議的結果我們會作為補助的依據這是第一點那這個我們預期行政院那個是我們會尊重行政院審議的結果應該是4月份會審議完所以第一項應該5月份以前會公布"},{"start":11213.092,"end":11230.514,"text":"好 第一項五月份以前第二項因為它會涉及到最近委員們提到了行政專職化的討論原來我們預定前一個版本在三月三十一號可以公布但是行政專職化因為部長很關心還是希望我們全面蒐集一件檢討這個我們會在五到六月間公布"},{"start":11231.215,"end":11246.387,"text":"好第二項它是很大規模的那我們會在那個時間公佈不希望在可能要更久本來要7月8月我們覺得應該要5月6月讓學校就可以禁用在新學年度前所以我們會在5月6月5月底會完成太好了署長好署長你完全都知道我要問什麼"},{"start":11250.27,"end":11274.001,"text":"第一項我沒有問題然後第三項專府人的辦法跟補助辦法4月9號會公佈這個我也沒有問題確實關鍵是他會連動到第二項你剛說這個關於人員員額編制準則他會牽扯到行政人員專職這件事情我認為確實如同剛謝委員所說的很多老師在問可不可以減輕他們的行政但是你現在跟我說五六月所以你們決定這個部分需要送交行政院嗎"},{"start":11274.801,"end":11289.077,"text":"第二項不用送交行政院所以部裡面自己決定就可以了現在主要是在蒐集意見譬如說我們有五條的主要內涵好 請說包含說我們要不要讓小學有設副組長我們要不要讓"},{"start":11290.338,"end":11311.649,"text":"這個關係到緣而編制我們要不要讓變動的學校組織因為少了一個班結果他設組呢結果他大量減組這些能不能夠跟地方政府溝通讓他變動不要這麼大因為他的所有行政事務還是在類似這些有五個項目會後我們給委員那另外專職化也考慮到"},{"start":11312.489,"end":11340.063,"text":"不要一定要配置正式公務員有沒有可能因為不是設組長他是設人力的專職化能不能夠用契約禁用等等這些都因為涉及到地方政府整體運用人力那我們也覺得是一個新時代比較先進的做法但這五項的精神可能要跟地方政府或有關單位包含人力單位做比較完整的溝通那相關的進度會繼續跟委員匯報"},{"start":11340.623,"end":11365.815,"text":"好謝謝署長這麼清楚的說明我想我們都知道正義的點在哪裡尤其是才化把新版實施之後其實非常多的錢到的地方去我先預告我認為如果你們在這件事情上沒有把態度說清楚到底這些新增的員額編制裡面包含你剛剛說副組長也好還是相關契約的範本也好到底用什麼樣的方法聘請這些行政專職進來我希望教育部的態度要清楚"},{"start":11366.235,"end":11392.794,"text":"到底钱是地方政府出的还是你们出的因为我们知道国教系统有非常多隶属地方政府我不希望在选举这一年到时候很多地方政府因为自己不愿意编列相关的预算不愿意有所承担要甩锅丢包回来教育部就如同之前三张EQ一样所以我先提醒这件事情也期待国教署跟我们办公室比较明确刚刚署长您所说的五项回复以上谢谢好接下来那署长请"},{"start":11394.115,"end":11418.817,"text":"暫時再停一下這邊還是跟你有關再來就關於偏鄉師資的部分我們要謝謝部長之前到TFT參加了一個所謂進論式也就是所謂的偏遠地區學校學士候學分班甚至各式各樣課程規劃的進度那當時我們在講說偏遠地區學校的學士候學分班開班很少報名人數也相對少"},{"start":11419.397,"end":11438.923,"text":"可是感謝教育部在去年擴大辦理之後呢目前我們看到開班人數都是過去的二到三倍確實看見實務上的需求也謝謝教育部願意開班那我想問關於今年的部分我們什麼進度的規劃跟過去不一樣的做法或是更積極的回應地方老師的需求這個可不可以請部長來說明一下"},{"start":11439.983,"end":11463.276,"text":"我想我們謝謝委員關心偏鄉的一個教育品質包括師資的來源我們確實在這個偏鄉地區裡邊我們不僅是開學生學問班我們現在還開專班然後這一個用線上的一個甚至這個寒暑假因為我們非常清楚偏鄉的這些老師代理代課老師他們沒有辦法在一般的一個上課日裡邊"},{"start":11464.457,"end":11485.075,"text":"夜間來上課所以我們大概有更多的除了有專班像原住民地區我們開了原住民的一個工會專班像有一些STEM我們也從請師大開這一個公教的這一些STEM的這些專班然後對偏鄉的我們除了有學士或專班以外我們還有"},{"start":11486.296,"end":11506.346,"text":"來自於偏鄉的這個特別對金門馬祖澎湖我們也開專班也用線上的來學習理論課我們基本上鼓勵這個失陪單位盡量用線上的一個課然後實務操作的就利用寒暑假讓這些真正對台灣教育人才培育有熱情的這些年輕老師能夠圓他們的夢也能夠一起來守護台灣的教育"},{"start":11509.468,"end":11537.271,"text":"好 谢谢部长说明的非常清楚确实在去年小教报考人数就变多了那目前呢我知道可是因为宗教的报考人数仍然寥寥可数我知道教育部今年有放宽说只要四个学期就可以报名可是因为小教现在还是要六个学期我当然知道民间团体有他们的倡议但我想我就简单的说请教育部带回去研议有没有机会小教从六学期一样改成四学期当然我知道你们认为现在小教已经人满为患也许不需要"},{"start":11537.591,"end":11562.903,"text":"但我想你們還是可以回去考慮一下第二個要問的是部長關於之前部長也非常喜歡非常在意的是教學實作導向的師資培育事辦計畫我知道你們有計畫在推進跟進行我也想要確定今年的進度大方向是不是會後可以給我們一個報告因為時間有限我就不讓部長在這裡多說可以嗎好但是我希望相關的同仁要協助部長積極推進這件事情因為部長也非常在意"},{"start":11563.843,"end":11577.75,"text":"等等的這些結合這個施培我想這個是非常有價值的我們也看到國際的經驗所以我想它會變成我們另外的一個施施培育的重點也許也比較適合現在現場的職務困境很多如果老師們邊做邊學"},{"start":11579.891,"end":11592.299,"text":"這些年輕畢業的學生他們充滿對教育的熱情數量非常大我們希望他們能夠投入接下來謝謝部長接下來問這個關於9任獎金的部分因為已經開始發放了也謝謝署長之前國教署署長這邊願意放寬認定獎金請領資格可是當我們在細部盤點之後發現9任獎金還是有一些問題"},{"start":11604.386,"end":11629.895,"text":"那我认为应该没有办法在今天质询台上给我回复可是我还是要把问题提出来拜托部长甚至请关心的委员一起来关心来偏乡教育奖金现在发现几个困境来第一个任职的同为偏乡可是他跑到不同学校去了可能没有办法请领第二个任职的同为偏乡可是跑到不同县市去了也没有办法请领第三个现在的状况是这样罗署长你听听看"},{"start":11630.495,"end":11649.806,"text":"公立學校的附設幼兒園可以支領可是偏鄉的公立幼兒園沒有辦法支領第四個可能是我們武力華委員也會關心的目前有非常多足語的老師還有新著名語言的支援老師他可能長期在一個偏鄉支援這些母語的教學"},{"start":11650.566,"end":11678.189,"text":"但是他可能是因为待客的性质或是原本不在偏乡条例里面所以他完全没有办法支领这个偏乡9任奖金我们想要在这个第一线师资匮乏的当下跟署长跟部长反应我们有没有机会召开相关会议去把这些样态都盘点完然后有没有机会在预算可支应的情况下更加的开放让这些9任的偏乡老师都可以实职"},{"start":11679.13,"end":11694.268,"text":"實質的受到這些獎金的鼓勵來 署長謝謝委員關心我想我們目前委員所關心的幾個樣態我們基本上都已經有掌握法律都已經改變了也就是說沒有沒有 部長我剛剛講的都沒有的我剛剛講的就是沒有我才講出來"},{"start":11696.692,"end":11718.645,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛部長的意思是說在部長的理念跟3月5號的文都可以處理但是有一些認定因為在細節的操作裡面是不是容我把剛才講的公立幼兒園不是附幼以及剛剛足以老師他的身份認定這會涉及到地方政府可能在認定上他的權限他會認為他有到那麼大嗎這個由我們來跟他開會開完幾個個案之後我們把它變成問題會編就可以全國通用你講到關鍵那問題會編什麼時候要開始修訂"},{"start":11725.13,"end":11744.101,"text":"問題會變現在是逐期可以公佈我們每半個月會公佈一次因為最近這個新制度部長很關心希望能夠盡量照顧多一點的我們的夥伴所以3月5號那個文已經非常的放寬並且授權但是認定上怕地方政府還怕有治案所以我們會定期召開每15天會公佈一個新版的QA"},{"start":11744.941,"end":11773.192,"text":"同時也請副本給舊愛文化委員會所有委員包含辦公室我認為偏鄉老師這些部分非常多委員會關心為什麼要這樣講我們當時立這個九月偏鄉獎金我們到底在意的是穩定師資指的到底是指整體的偏鄉師資還是個別學校當時的版本比較看起來是照顧個別學校但我認為在時過境遷這麼多年之後其實所有整體偏鄉的師資穩定這件事情變得非常非常重要謝謝部長跟署長好最後一個題目"},{"start":11774.632,"end":11798.737,"text":"今年是實驗教育修法三法上路已經十年了那有越來越多的學生走出所謂的主流體制但我認為所有進到所謂實驗教育三法不管是個人自學、機構自學還是團體自學有非常多的困境都已經在十年後開始浮現了我等署長講完我怕部長沒有聽到我講的"},{"start":11799.977,"end":11815.624,"text":"好很多困境浮現包含來第一個很多縣市政府他們本來有很多空出來的教室跟場地應該優先提供給這些自學機構申請但是很多地方政府置之不理他們不友善的不接受這些申請非常可惜再來"},{"start":11816.904,"end":11841.19,"text":"很多地方政府面對不同的機構之間有大小眼我們也不知道為什麼例如說作為公辦公營或是公辦民營完全態度不同接下來就是我們在特教法跟學復法修法完之後有非常多自學機構裡面的老師跟家長遇到孩子沒有特教的需求跟輔導的需求完全沒有辦法在這個體制裡面受到照顧我認為十年前很多人認為走進實驗教育的小孩叫做體制外錯"},{"start":11842.33,"end":11857.405,"text":"我希望从现在开始大家重新去想一个念头就是实验教育三法所照顾的都是我们的孩子这些孩子因为有法他们都叫体制内所以认为既然是体制内在十年后的今天我们应该要开启修法的座谈会跟讨论"},{"start":11858.306,"end":11878.337,"text":"這個部分我要先請提醒部長我們來看一下實驗教育人數逆勢成長在學生總數5年少了27萬的同時有越來越多人走出校園走到實驗教育三法所照顧的機構裡面這件事情我認為非同小可尤其輔導資源跟特教資源都照顧不了這些小孩"},{"start":11878.897,"end":11889.469,"text":"我認為這是我們要檢討的部分我知道部長今天應該沒有辦法回答那我就簡單說到這邊我希望後續教育部可以開啟修法的討論我們辦公室也會實質的推進想聽一下部長的態度"},{"start":11890.814,"end":11912.379,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心實驗教育三法確實它是一個民主的象徵我們過去就單一的一個思維我們民主本來就是多元所以我們因應這一個所謂的個別差異能夠因材施教我想實驗三法它某種程度上補助等於說在輔助這一個"},{"start":11914.751,"end":11929.689,"text":"應該是說他照顧了不同學習樣態的家庭跟孩子的需求能夠兼顧到個人需求對 而且這個個人需求我認為不再那麼個人囉你看這個數字就知道其實非常非常的明顯接下來這一題我覺得很難但是我要告訴部長"},{"start":11930.31,"end":11959.391,"text":"现在教育部面对的困境是这个就是台语沉浸幼儿园的问题我们来看一下我们发现在教育部的很多座位上呢其实非常的消极那我们办公室一直在想啊我们不是只有提出问题我们也很试着很想跟教育部一起努力提出解方那我们就找了课委会来讨论而且请教了现场的专家学者来下一张我们办公室就开了这个座谈会我们邀请了课委会来告诉我们现在呢课委会他们的做法是什么呢来课委会的做法我们来看下一张"},{"start":11960.902,"end":11988.559,"text":"关于教保员的部分呢在幼儿园的部分课委会他们就要求教保员的语言门槛必须要在课语中高级以上能力但是在台语幼儿园完全没有那在教保员的培训机制呢课委会有一套机制非常的完整可是我们看到台语的部分完全没有只有演习再来呢语言陪伴的制度呢台语的部分是顾问制而且不可以入班可是课委会它从中央到地方都有专业辅导团甚至有课语陪伴员还有教师互助社群"},{"start":11989.119,"end":12006.153,"text":"再來資訊獲取的管道目前台語幼兒園的老師跟教保員告訴我們分散他們要自己去找可是我們看到課委會非常認真做專屬網站跟一站式的資源其實不是只有教育部現在面臨這個困境我們問了園民會跟課委會跟教育部之間你們在協助成立這些"},{"start":12006.753,"end":12021.946,"text":"所謂的國家語言的學校機制上其實從來沒有一個平台去討論這個事情那如果整體的環境跟有越來越多的家長有意識不論他是希望他的小孩進入所謂課委會這課宇的幼兒園還是台語幼兒園甚至我們未來"},{"start":12023.027,"end":12042.841,"text":"在部落裡頭會有非常多原住民語言的幼兒園這些事情如果我們的教育部跟客人會跟園民會沒有一個好的經驗交流甚至成果分享我認為在教育部這邊會依然可能三五年後看到都會是同一個狀況那我們辦公室也做了研究做了多座談所以我想要快速給教育部幾個建議我們辦公室也會持續的追蹤"},{"start":12044.222,"end":12072.99,"text":"第一个我们希望你们积极跟课委会已经有做出成效的原民会还有文化部就国家语言的部分进行经验分享跟交流第二个教育部如果没有中央辅导团以学术研究跟论述作为基底协助开发课程模组教具教材辅导资源我认为现场老师困境很大还有教育部如何跟地方政府专家学者演绎成立地方辅导团还有陪伴员再来台语教保资讯平台相关计划的一站式网站现在依然是没有的讲了这么多"},{"start":12074.488,"end":12089.21,"text":"千頭萬緒我只是要告訴部長我們不是只是來提出問題我們也請教了課委會謝謝課委會還有那個屏東大學的老師給我們非常多好的建議我這邊把這些建議交給部長我想要請教一部積極去研議三個月內給我們規劃報告可以嗎"},{"start":12091.919,"end":12108.812,"text":"這個資料我們可以再送交教育部張可業提相關報告OK的但是我也不用這個機會跟委員報告我們從去年的9月開始已經超過全國這一個22個教育局處所長的一個會議裡面已經有宣示從幼兒園裡面從語言上的一個"},{"start":12109.552,"end":12126.794,"text":"等於說這個社區語言的一個共通性開始這一個不管是台語或者客語或者原住民語就幼兒園裡面它變成一個老師一個很重要的一個跟幼兒的教學裡面很重要的一個語言的一個界面那我們也"},{"start":12128.756,"end":12143.849,"text":"這個請這個國教署這個不定期的到各地方學校這個幼兒園去訪視希望這個本土園國家園的一個推動能夠從幼兒園就開始前面來推我知道時間有限再給我三四秒部長你剛剛講的我完全認同你在局處會議上"},{"start":12144.85,"end":12162.341,"text":"用宣誓的方法可是一旦所有老師要動起來教保員要動起來他就需要我剛講的這些事情他需要教材他需要資源他需要網站他需要陪伴他需要相關的輔導機制協助他去落實部長的宣誓跟交代對嗎所以部長這邊該做的事情我們一起努力"},{"start":12162.441,"end":12183.102,"text":"市長我想這個輔導團裡面包含許多教材的開發我們當然都一直持續在做地方現在也有一定程度的做得非常非常不錯像去年全國舉辦的這個本土語言本土的教材的一個開發我也到現場去看到各縣市其實在這個部分他們還真的是都"},{"start":12183.883,"end":12203.549,"text":"做的有許多的具體的一個成果我想會後我們除了委員的建議我們來深化以外有一些東西我想我也跟我們會後也來跟委員做一個更詳細的報告好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳培雲委員請部長回座接下來有請吳佩奕委員"},{"start":12209.687,"end":12213.41,"text":"好 謝謝我請教育部鄭部長好 請鄭部長委員好好 部長好剛陳培育委員提到這個實驗教育三法上路之後我們要來一個通盤檢討我相當的支持也相當有感因為我過去在擔任市議員的時候就時常跟像我們這種非學員型態的實驗教育的團體家長或者學員團體都有他們時常遇到真的很多的這些困擾"},{"start":12238.968,"end":12260.825,"text":"譬如說學校裡面跟學校來談場地常常有時候都需要來協助來協調甚至曾經譬如說租金要幫忙負擔土地稅等等的問題那麼像新府資源也是一樣有些學生他們是沒有學籍的或有些是掛在教育局的那在新府資源的使用上面有時候他們就會比較被忽略到所以我覺得確實因為上路已經實務經驗這麼多年了"},{"start":12264.028,"end":12268.61,"text":"那我們針對學校型態 非學型態也好就是各方類型的實驗教育的學生我們能夠怎麼樣整體再來提供他們資源跟後盾我覺得真的是可以整體來討論一下那今天最主要幾個問題要跟部長討論首先是因為前陣子因為林義雄先生過去林齋寫案的事件重新被社會大眾看見那社會上面發起一個叫轉型正義補課潮"},{"start":12290.6,"end":12314.957,"text":"那我受到很多人的反應說很感謝教育部有一個轉型正義的補課專區因為上面的資訊至少國人可以知道說這個資訊是正確的因為現在資訊特別發達也變成說查證也需要花比較多的心力所以知道資訊正確那很多人他是想要認識歷史想要了解歷史有一個管道有一個入口讓他可以入門那大家會自己再去挖掘更多的資料來閱讀"},{"start":12316.138,"end":12331.184,"text":"那麼事實上我們去回顧教育部對轉型正義教育的推動其實一直是關鍵角色為了轉型正義的工程教育是重中之重因為我們要真的去認識歷史我們才能夠反省才能夠學習尊重所以教育部我們從2000年以後開始推動人權教育我們有國家轉型正義教育行動綱領從2023至2026年的同時我們也有教學諮詢網"},{"start":12342.068,"end":12355.377,"text":"我們針對轉型正義的教育人才庫我們也有設置要點這些都是等於是我們轉型正義教育的基礎工程我覺得很重要那也肯定教育部我們也希望可以繼續來做那針對轉型正義補課專區我們目前上線的是兩個單元一個是228一個是湯德章那麼接下來4月7日是輿論自由日"},{"start":12365.203,"end":12384.361,"text":"言論自由日我們也會有鄭南榮的一個短影音的一個言論自由日那一天會公佈好這個是我們教育部轉型正義補課專心的下一張新的一張的課程那麼未來5月19號也會有5月19號也有再一個課程那麼我們"},{"start":12385.442,"end":12400.332,"text":"就是說我們會針對每一個月裡面不同的一些不管白色恐怖或者對個人的這個人權上造成了一個傷害我們大概希望說陳柏惟講說自由全然不是自然發生的那歷史"},{"start":12401.132,"end":12415.568,"text":"我們可以原諒但是不能遺忘那我想這一個部分我們也希望因為透過這個短營透過轉型正義的一個更積極全面的推動希望我們國人能夠更珍惜我們的自由台灣的自由跟民主"},{"start":12416.149,"end":12436.294,"text":"是 因為迴響真的相當不錯那我們也需要這樣比較科普性質的教育那就我所知這一次因為是事件引發的所以說第一個課程上線的時候也比較倉促一點所以很感謝我們相關單位我們承辦同仁大家都是全力的在拼啦那我們有沒有針對這一個轉型正義的補課專區有一個中長程的規劃呢"},{"start":12443.154,"end":12468.067,"text":"跟委員報告我們已經排到明年二月也就是說那因為明年剛好二二八又是八十週年就是說我們大概在這個行動綱領裡面到今年第一期結束我們明年事實上會請這個我們租賜場現在會有一個一家從今年開始等於有一個重疊明年又有一個新的四年但是今年成為一家四雖然它是最後一年"},{"start":12468.567,"end":12484.875,"text":"我們有一系列的這些轉型正義的一些課程或者一些不遺址的大學裡邊開始今年過去沒有我們今年開始把大學的USR包含大學的教學實驗實踐計畫裡邊已經也都摳"},{"start":12489.677,"end":12510.789,"text":"希望老師在教學創新裡面或者USR大學能夠把這個轉型正義人權教育也都能夠帶進來那目前在USR裡面已經有七所大學提出這樣一個計畫我想從大所接小所裡面結合在地的地方文史跟社會工作者能夠把這些地圖然後"},{"start":12511.409,"end":12526.922,"text":"讓中小學能夠透過他們來協助中小學的學生也都能夠進一步的去理解我們這個歷史好 部長我們很支持你們去推動但你知道我長期關注所以我看了去年12月行政院有一個轉型爭議這個會報會議記錄我們行政院人權處就提出說認為你們的業務繁重"},{"start":12534.128,"end":12559.816,"text":"認為你們的人力是有必要增加的這個行政院通常都是我們去跟行政院要人力他說你這個太多了 不可以再多了很少行政院叫你們要增加人力所以人力的部分我們有沒有相應的規劃呢謝謝委員關心 確實我們做了非常多 包含教師課程教材的發展包括校長的演習 包括我們看許多的這些轉型正義相關的影片那也邀請行政院的"},{"start":12560.476,"end":12582.241,"text":"這一個委員去現場跟我們指導那我們現在也感謝他們看到我們在有限人力做了還蠻積極的所以我們現在大概也跟人事總署人事總署在爭取說希望能夠有能力的調整要去進行那我們也建議"},{"start":12582.901,"end":12603.135,"text":"就是因為我們這一次也有跟像228基金會來合作嘛我們也可以多來增加跟像228紀念館國家人權館這些專案的合作我覺得都很重要然後諸次也是228基金會的董事嘛這個他們都長期在投入了來去善用整合這些資源我想也很重要我們是展現一個態度就是說我們在今年"},{"start":12604.115,"end":12632.35,"text":"在這個月裡面應該上個月我們教育部的部務會議我也親自帶我們所有的一級主管到景美的人權博物館裡面去開部務會議同時也請受難者當事人出來解說我想這也是展現說我們教育部在未來轉型政治跟人權教育這個我們一定會全面的來更積極的來推動"},{"start":12632.87,"end":12637.095,"text":"好那我們也支持教育部繼續來推動這個主持人謝謝那時間不是很夠但是我一定要跟部長討論是專任輔導教師的權益因為黃姐委員在總質詢的時候也有跟部長您討論過那當時這個"},{"start":12649.068,"end":12657.714,"text":"您的回應是說再請地方政府來補貼我認為這是不夠有誠意所以今天還是要討論一下這個因為根據我們學生輔導法我們專輔教師跟專業輔導人力這個當然是守護我們校園心理健康最重要的兩個防線那上一週我們是在審查學生衛生法學校衛生法這時候也有提到專輔人力的議題今天要講的是專輔教師主要就是說因為我們對教師我們有一個標準是授課時數"},{"start":12679.728,"end":12698.855,"text":"所以我們可以去衡量去評估說例如他這個有沒有超過業務量啊有沒有超時加急啊等等但是專輔教師他是用個案他是用案量對個案進行處遇嘛那所以等於教育部目前你們對專輔教師的業務你們有衡量標準嗎你們衡量標準是什麼"},{"start":12700.915,"end":12722.562,"text":"我們目前其實是沒有標準的所以沒有標準會造成什麼問題你根本看不見專輔教師他的辛勞我連衡量評估的工具都沒有那所以說呢這個目前不管是輔導教師教師團體或家長團體都有提出一個訴求就是說我們的專輔教師能夠比照特教"},{"start":12723.522,"end":12733.645,"text":"老師有特教老師有特教家級嘛我們能不能夠有專輔家級這個部分呢我想已經部長已經充分了解這個問題了我們有沒有我們可不可以來開啟一個討論就是說你們找這個專業團體大家來討論說這個到底是要怎麼樣改善我關專輔教師確實怎麼樣去讓給他們有一個更大的支持我想我們"},{"start":12748.45,"end":12749.554,"text":"我們會來會後會來找相關的包括專業團體我們一起來討論這個要開會我們有沒有一個時間"},{"start":12758.425,"end":12765.168,"text":"近快來兩個月內我們就來開啟這個討論好不好因為你們一定比我們更了解實務上面遇到的困難那這個你要增加加擠也好這都是要整體互相來做評估的所以趕快來開啟這個會議的討論那除了加擠以外還有一個比較具體的是我們學校的這個輔導主任是不是一定要專輔老師來兼任這個我們國民教育法21條是規定說輔導主任"},{"start":12787.378,"end":12792.343,"text":"是有輔導熱忱及專業智能的教師擔任學生輔導法第九條學校輔導主管依據輔導專業專長者優先任用實際上是你有輔導教師證就可以來擔任輔導主任才對"},{"start":12805.27,"end":12820.505,"text":"那唯一只有在高中我們的高級中等教育法20條裡面有明定說這個主任必須要專輔教師來擔任之好 現在問題來了因為我這邊收到了不只一所各縣市都有完全中學來反映"},{"start":12820.865,"end":12835.483,"text":"因為學校實務狀況很多事這個處長可能知道他輔導老師可能就只有兩位那你一定要專輔老師來才能擔任輔導主任的話兩個人輪流一直在兼主任等於這個行政職他永遠這個是永遠沒有辦法放下的"},{"start":12836.104,"end":12854.414,"text":"那所以他們說我們完全中學我的業務其實包含了國中跟高中那我們的法規的解釋其實就我來看法規解釋你不一定是要比照高中的標準因為它也有國中的業務存在那麼那個完全中學它是不是可以只要是有這個輔導教師證的這個老師就可以來擔任輔導主任這個部長過去有沒有聽聞過這相關的陳情啊"},{"start":12862.479,"end":12881.251,"text":"謝謝委員因為確實這一個問題就剛才委員所說的完全中學我們目前是比照高級中學法的第20條那我們也這個法規會的一個知情裡面大概也都是目前的態度都是採用比照這一個高中的教育法這樣來執行"},{"start":12884.893,"end":12901.541,"text":"這個部長我看過你們所有的會議記錄其實有專家是有提出不同的法律解釋沒有認為說一定要用這個高級中等教育法來解釋所以部長拜託一下因為我覺得這個實務上如果我們可以替他解決這個困擾只要是法規"},{"start":12902.461,"end":12921.033,"text":"可以允許的範圍內甚至我看起來甚至不用修法請你們來討論一下好不好就實務的需求跟法規解釋面來做整體的評估我們希望就我們現在不用修法的階段你可以我們能夠提供給他們幫助的盡量來協助因為真的現場的狀況是負擔相當的大好謝謝部長好謝謝署長好謝謝吳佩儀委員的詢答請部長回座接下來有請郭育晴委員質詢"},{"start":12936.206,"end":12940.378,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請部長好 有請部長"},{"start":12945.814,"end":12966.509,"text":"委員好部長辛苦了那今天其實我還是要針對這個校事會議的部分來提出一些我的看法跟一些問題那我想這個校事會議其實是在我們第一線的老師的現場其實他們也就是因為校事會議的關係那剛剛前面其實我聽了有幾位的委員也特別提到現在其實我們"},{"start":12967.009,"end":12986.765,"text":"老師的部分 校園的部分其實有一波這個老師要出走潮那我想消失會議可能也佔了很大的一個重要的一個原因那我先請教一下這個部長我們之前其實當然我們1月12號的時候其實我們也對外公布了這個消失會議的部分我們怎麼樣來做這個最好的一個補救的一個方式"},{"start":12987.265,"end":13009.995,"text":"就是让老师不要在校园当中除了教学以外还有人心惶惶面对自己被调查这样子的一个危机那当时其实我们也说了我们会删除这个匿名检举弹书那我相信这个应该就可以解决蛮大的一个部分就是被滥诉的一个就是匿名滥诉的这样子一个状况那第二个其实之前我多次的在咨询我相信我是第一个提到这个消失会议的人"},{"start":13010.475,"end":13037.503,"text":"那當然我也多次的建議就是教育部我們是不是在這個進入校事會議之前我們會有一個分流也就是分級的一個機制那這個部分呢我想問一下就是教育部目前有沒有收到來自校園方面他們做了這樣子的一個處理那效果或成效又如何這個分流的機制就是在進入校事會議之前我們先把有一些根本就是溝通上的一個問題我是現場可以解決的不需要再走所謂的校事會議的程序這個部分有沒有收到一些回饋"},{"start":13039.21,"end":13054.04,"text":"跟委員報告到這個2月28號等於說今年1月12到2月28我們收到的全國有86案那麼受理的才只有等於說在事前就分流了大概就只有"},{"start":13054.56,"end":13083.732,"text":"二十二案其他就變成不受理或者轉到考二案它確實達到了已經開始有分流了好那我想要再回到這個所謂的分流有所謂的這個分流的一個這樣子的一個算是方法就是在校園當中已經開始實行了那它的確也出現了一些效果但是我想要問的是這個誰來決定分流到底是停留在我只是溝通我在學校端我就可以解決然後接著下來我可能有一些部分我可能要"},{"start":13084.392,"end":13107.808,"text":"往所謂的校士會議前進這個分流的組成的判定的團體或者是組織是由校方的人員呢還是由老師還是由所謂的這個家長還是由外部的一些專業的這個學者或者是專家這個分流的這個制度根文報告在基本上就是這一個組成是校長老師代表"},{"start":13108.528,"end":13124.062,"text":"家長代表還有社會公正人士但是校長是不投票的所以等於就是由教師代表家長代表跟社會公正人士他們取得一些共識之後然後再回來就是校長來做裁定對不對應該是這樣子他們就做了一個決定校長基本上就在主持這個會議讓他能夠順暢"},{"start":13126.264,"end":13140.492,"text":"為什麼我今天特別提到這個問題這個看似我們針對所謂的這個消失會議的這個前端的部分分流的一個部分看似我們好像還蠻多元的然後還蠻完整的但是問題是會不會有可能成為"},{"start":13141.713,"end":13164.173,"text":"不是沒有有沒有專業的問題是誰要不要負責判斷的這個問題我為什麼要這麼講喔那我以日本來做這樣子的一個例子日本在2020年其實他們就已經提出了所謂的這個校園律師這樣子的一個機制那校園律師的一個存在其實不只是存在於校園當中他可以處理包含學生被霸凌或者是師生"},{"start":13165.074,"end":13182.549,"text":"事件的一些關係等等他做一些比較正確而且法律上的一個專業的一個判斷那回到我們現在講的所謂的教師會議的前端我們的分級的一個機制喔那我想呢是由法律的專業來主導這個前端的一個判斷他是一個非常重要的一個緩衝同時他也會避免"},{"start":13183.149,"end":13207.41,"text":"我想避免是什麼避免行政最後來主導這個判斷也就是說我把這些專業意見變成只是其中的一個參考而已但是在日本他們是有這樣子的一個所謂的校園律師我們有沒有可能往這個方向來做這樣子的一個考量也就是說當一個案件進來的時候其實在台灣剛剛我們講到台灣的校園我們是有家長代表我們可能有學生代表"},{"start":13207.99,"end":13227.966,"text":"家長代表我們有這個教師代表然後再來可能有行政人員然後最後這個校長他是沒有投票的一個權利這位公證人是訓練過是外界的公證人好那只要有爭議只要碰到如果這個所謂的案例他是有爭議的會不會因為我們剛剛講的沒有一個人想要當壞人啊"},{"start":13229.833,"end":13246.064,"text":"你懂我意思嗎就沒有一個人想要當壞人沒有人想當壞人的時候他沒有人願意去承擔說啊這個所謂的這個消失會議我可能就不受理那最後我們大家都沒有辦法決定好那就只好送消失會議會不會有可能這樣的一個狀況當然有時候土耳不足以置信當然"},{"start":13247.205,"end":13267.306,"text":"有沒有可能我當然是有可能但是我們至少在程序比如說他是匿名投票然後這個校外的公證人士當然他有可能有法律專業背景的或者因為這個事件裡面他們可能是走這個心理學家或者這個兒童社工人士等等的這些"},{"start":13267.466,"end":13291.939,"text":"因為今天這個時間關係我為什麼會特別提到就是說我們是不是可以來參考日本他們的一個做法也就是說我們傾向程序化的處理不要只是為了自保而已而是這個程序化之前的這個分級的處理我們是不是可以給一個所謂的這個第三方最公正的一個單位這個人可能就是所謂有律師背景我們來做所謂的這個比照"},{"start":13292.759,"end":13309.821,"text":"如果是法律問題進入程序如果只是溝通問題我們可以現場來到處理我們到處理實時的審查到那個第二個階段那個所謂的真正認定他可能會可能會觸及到這個解聘不續的這些但通常各個學校都會有法律的專家進來好"},{"start":13311.383,"end":13325.879,"text":"但是我剛剛講了法律的專家進來他只是其中的一環的其中的一個人但是其實我們看到日本他們是把法律的專家是守在整個所有的制度或所有的機制的最前面這個其實我們也可以來做一個參考好不好"},{"start":13326.4,"end":13352.006,"text":"好那接下來第二個問題其實我剛剛有特別提到我們的老師出走潮那現在其實關於這個國中小的一個教師離職的人數其實算是最多的那麼從這個109年的一個資料到113年從原本的2249人包含這些離職啦退休啦或者是所謂的這個留停的這個人數從2000多人已經暴增到"},{"start":13352.626,"end":13373.593,"text":"五千零二十四人五年之內其實已經高達了百分之一百二十三那這個其實等於是翻倍的在流失啊就是老師的這樣子的一個人才是翻倍的在流失那尤其是中間的四十歲到五十歲這最重要的中生代的一個教師他是校園最重要的一個主幹但"},{"start":13374.013,"end":13374.353,"text":"我們調查過了這個"},{"start":13392.325,"end":13417.769,"text":"這是翻轉教育他們說了這個校園當中將近有四成的老師考慮在三年之內要離職我們有沒有掌握到底是什麼原因留不住人是因為我們的整個所有的薪資的結構還是有一個最重要的原因還是剛剛我提到的所謂的校士的會議我們不能在一個已經在漏水的桶子裡面我說沒關係我就一直加水加水加水他還在漏啊"},{"start":13418.149,"end":13442.684,"text":"如果沒有找到真正的原因我們怎麼補足這一塊因為最終受影響的還是學生的受教權這個部分謝謝委員提醒確實老師的工作滿意度是很重要關係到我們台灣的一個教育品質那我們事實上從實施因為譬如說我們實施在從民國五十七年改制為國中每三十年"},{"start":13444.039,"end":13461.976,"text":"大概一個世代退休潮那當然隨著你看五十七年到八十七年到一一七理論上他就是他可能會是一個世代交替但是剛好在這幾年因為隨著我們科技產業的犀利這當然也可能是一個原因另外"},{"start":13463.91,"end":13490.536,"text":"所以剛剛其實部長有講到可能可能可能可是問題是我希望教育部要做到的因為我們畢竟是教育部我們是最高的主管機關這個部分如果我們沒有辦法掌握真正學校校園失資流失的真正的關鍵的原因我們找不到方法如果找不到方法我們有再好的一些政策其實我們真的都應該認為這個是一個非常重要的一個危機"},{"start":13493.496,"end":13513.386,"text":"是專業的一個立場我的很清楚我們在師培裡邊我們功一定要大於求那至於地方國民教育本來是地方他應該他是地方前線嘛老師校長都是他們在聘學校的經理人都是來自地方前線我們希望地方也能夠"},{"start":13518.011,"end":13532.357,"text":"我們都知道我們公願意大於求但重點是很多好幾招之後他還是招不滿要好幾招我想我的心情跟委員是一樣就是說"},{"start":13533.437,"end":13557.404,"text":"國民教育地方他不能兩手一攤就說我聘不到老師我希望我們來做一個真正的現場的盤點來真的找出到底這些老師留不住的真正的原因到底在哪裡然後我們才能夠更具體這個部分是不是有一些比較實設師跟國教署也一直在這一個部分委託學者專家在做"},{"start":13558.785,"end":13576.178,"text":"一系列的一些計畫研究在了解我想老師的專業跟基石是國家最重要的一個競爭力的存在那最後請主席再給我一點時間還有第三個問題然後我想這個部分我們如果有一些比較進程的一些報告再提供給我辦公室我們真的來正視這樣子的一個問題好嗎好"},{"start":13578.26,"end":13594.731,"text":"然後再來第三個問題我想大家都知道現在不管是假訊息也好然後AI是日新月異啊然後再加上所謂的認知作戰是越來越嚴重了但是在我們的教育體系當中我們是不是還停留在教學生不要亂信所謂的假訊息這樣子一個層次而已剛剛"},{"start":13595.892,"end":13611.048,"text":"聽到就是我們的這個AI立委我們的葛羅軍委員他有特別提到芬蘭那我也想要用芬蘭來做這樣子的一個例子來說明那我想這個芬蘭他們是從3歲到10歲就已經開始在教孩子們什麼叫做"},{"start":13612.149,"end":13632.107,"text":"識讀的能力那他們甚至在語言的課程當中已經開始在辨識所謂的訊息的來源那麼他們在社會課程當中已經開始在判讀所謂的公共的議題甚至在數位科的這個教學的方面他們已經開始在用演算法跟假訊息這樣子的一個操作在作為教育了所以為什麼這個芬蘭從這個如果我沒記錯從2018年到2023年"},{"start":13638.092,"end":13654.864,"text":"他一直是所謂的嗜讀教育整個所有的評比的第一名這是在歐洲但是除了在歐洲德國也開始做了英國也開始做了連我們知道的南韓也開始做了韓國也開始做了那我想呢現在如果說大家都已經全世界都已經"},{"start":13655.945,"end":13680.642,"text":"意識到所謂的識讀的教育識讀的認知的問題其實是媒體識讀非常非常重要的問題我們如果還只是停留在分散在各科流於形式只是在告訴大家說啊這個可能是假的這個可能是真的但是我們沒有統一或者是系統性的不管是師培也好或者是教學的資源的支柱也好讓老師只是輕輕的帶過我想這個問題會非常非常的嚴重我們有沒有"},{"start":13685.666,"end":13703.459,"text":"我想這所謂的這個媒體的試讀它不是選修而是真的從小現在開始我們就應該要有一個整合性的一個這樣子的一個把中小學把媒體試讀這樣子的一個科學能夠放進去我們的課綱當中我們有沒有這樣子一個計畫"},{"start":13705.561,"end":13724.034,"text":"最近確實我們規劃了一個AI人才這個方舟計畫裡邊本來媒體試讀我們就一直在從小學就前面在做包含我們這一個終身教育師他也在這個社大裡邊社區大學裡邊 樂齡裡邊也都有在教"},{"start":13724.414,"end":13748.575,"text":"沒有我不是在講外面我是在講學校啊我是在講中小學啊學校就有開始在做那這個剛才所講的是AI人才方舟計畫裡面媒體試圖它也是一個重點也是我們一個計畫裡面我想我提醒教育部我們要把這個部分當成是國家級的基礎工程來做為什麼我要這麼說因為它其實跟我們的國家安全有分別"},{"start":13748.575,"end":13773.224,"text":"非常大的一個關係如果孩子們他沒有從小有這樣子的一個觀念其實他就是國安非常嚴重的一個破口我們一定要我們一定要把它當成一個非常重要的正式來做看怎麼樣把所謂的這個媒體識讀的一個教育正式納入國中小的一個階段讓每一個孩子都知道我要怎麼樣在日新月異的AI整個所有"},{"start":13773.604,"end":13784.211,"text":"都有可能因為一個指令就可能變成一個假訊息這樣子充斥的一個環境當中能夠找到自己能夠自我判斷媒體識讀的一個能力好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":13786.567,"end":13807.962,"text":"好 谢谢郭玉晴委员 请部长回座主席在这边先宣告那个叶元之委员发言前我先有一件事要说明今天有一个临时提案一案那在武力华委员咨询完毕之后我们要进行处理好 现在有请叶元之委员询答 请"},{"start":13817.626,"end":13821.49,"text":"主席好麻煩請教育部長謝謝好有請曾部長"},{"start":13826.991,"end":13854.328,"text":"委員好部長好因為今天大家討論這個教師法其實最終目的我覺得還是要給老師一定的尊重要改善對老師的不友善的環境剛剛大家都談很多現在少事化真的非常嚴重我真是希望教育部可以很正視這個問題因為教育是國家的根本如果連老師都不願意投入這個工作的話那以後誰來教育學生這其實是雙輸的局面教育部常常講說地方怎麼樣地方怎麼樣但教育部"},{"start":13855.048,"end":13878.115,"text":"總是教育的最高單位嘛當然希望你多做一些事情包括我們都希望跟你一起來討論然後看怎麼樣讓教育更好那我昨天總諮詢也跟卓榮泰院長跟部長很深入的討論有關於校園安全的問題基本上我覺得校園安全這個議題也會影響到老師願不願意留在這個職場的動機就像昨天卓榮泰院長"},{"start":13878.795,"end":13899.296,"text":"他 我也是很感謝他啦 他有肯定 我因為想要解決這個校園安全的問題 所以呢 提了一個安心上學法案針對那些常常戴蝴蝶套上課啊 然後那種動不動就拿 可能會有疑慮他也可能拿刀刺人的啊或者是拿鋁棒敲人的啊 這種背後有乾哥乾姐的這種學生"},{"start":13900.197,"end":13923.182,"text":"希望能夠由教育部可以設立一個專屬的學校由一些教育很有理念的專業團體來設立比如說以人為本比如說愛德教育正向管教讓原本的學校的師生可以得到喘息好好讀書昨天院長他說他有認同我這個大方向不過昨天院長講了一句話在網路上有一些老師也有意見因為院長說"},{"start":13925.262,"end":13940.229,"text":"如果遇到那些會帶刀上課的學生那老師跟行政人員就要有所處置啊但是他講這句話是完全不了解教學現場的因為在現在的教學情況之下如果你說要一般的行政人員跟老師面對這種學生他要怎麼處理他沒有能力處理啊"},{"start":13940.868,"end":13969.728,"text":"所以教育部要針對這件事情我覺得要提出一個方案出來那我覺得既然院長他要肯定我的立法方向那接下來細節部分我們是不是可以真的非常認真我們上次有開過公聽會但是部長沒有來啦是不是可以找一個時間跟請部長啊部長可以找一些相關的人我們一起就是不一定要利用這個委員會的時間我們可以很認真地來討論一下細節因為他可能牽涉到比較深入的討論不知道部長你願意嗎"},{"start":13971.854,"end":13987.611,"text":"怎麼樣讓學校更友善更安全讓老師教學能夠安心學生學習放心家長也能夠放心小孩子在學校學習我想這個方向我們是一定願意來努力的你沒有回答我問題啊"},{"start":13988.812,"end":13992.836,"text":"我是說既然院長有肯定我們的立法方向的話那我們就我們來找一個時間來討論一下細節啦因為我們委員會職群時間也不多啦也沒辦法很認真進入細節我都約你啊我們再找一個時間來討論因為確實細節要有另外的一個時間重溫討論"},{"start":14009.634,"end":14036.134,"text":"我來先我來這個提一下因為我之前我在上個會期我有提到一個事情也是跟跟老師的待遇跟尊重老師有關的因為我先肯定一下教育部把老師的終點費提高了那這個是肯定當然這第一步我們覺得不夠但是可以再多一點可是至少已經跨出第一步但是因為他還有他反映了一個狀況就是說如果學校的老師他如果不是導師也不是行政人員他也不是終點老師的話其實對這些老師來講"},{"start":14038.536,"end":14065.783,"text":"教育部現在的做法對他們來說是沒有差的反而是讓他們多付出為什麼呢因為他們如果請假一般老師請假的待課費用是老師自己出嘛那所以他出的待課費用反而提高所以像一群就是比如說他可能是科人老師在教育部這一波的待遇的調整他們其實沒有受惠其實是沒有受惠反而多付出這個部長我跟您提過不知道您還記得嗎"},{"start":14067.096,"end":14087.344,"text":"你記得嗎 記得嗎那當時我是不知道說教育部要怎麼去解決這個問題啦針對我剛剛提到那一群老師 但是我有提一個建議我說不然的話是不是可以減老師的終點開始做起因為現在國小是20個終點 國中18個終點 高中16個終點如果讓所有的老師都可以減兩個終點的話他第一個 因為108課綱關係老師其實負擔也蠻重的"},{"start":14093.767,"end":14114.815,"text":"讓他撿終點 如果他願意撿終點 那他可以多一點時間去備課或去跟學生相處教學之類的第二個 部長可能會講說 那撿終點的話 那其他的課誰要來教如果找得到就可以讓其他人來教那如果找不到的話呢 校內因為撿了終點之後假設由原來的校內老師來上這些課的話"},{"start":14116.676,"end":14142.415,"text":"那這些老師他就可以得到額外的終點費那他如果得到額外的終點費那他等於是這一次教育部調漲的終點費對他來說就有幫助他等於是有點變相加薪那我上個會期提的時候幾個月已經隔很多個月了當時我跟部長講說其實幫你算過了全國大概增加二十幾億啦這個錢真的對教育部來說不是一個大錢可是你至少可以讓老師"},{"start":14143.396,"end":14170.256,"text":"得到一個基本尊重而且讓至少讓所有的老師不管他是不是導師或者是行政人員那他都可以在薪資上面有增加一些其實也增加不多但是這就是有增加到嘛那時候我不知道部長你好像是說要研議一下有好幾個月了我不知道部長研議的怎麼樣報告因為他涉及到地方的一個教育前線嘛地方自治的一個前線不會啊你去談啊國民教育沒有部長對不起我要跟你溝通一個觀念"},{"start":14171.738,"end":14189.925,"text":"教育雖然說國民教育簽到地方但教育部是最高的主管機關我來今天這邊跟你討論如果你認為做這件事情對教育是有幫助那你教育部可以去跟地方去談啊那你開會了嗎我已經講幾個月了嘛那你去開 你去找了嗎你找了嗎 會議紀錄給我啊"},{"start":14191.866,"end":14212.096,"text":"這是上個會期跟您說的啊那如果每一次跟你說你提的都是說那地方的事然後沒有任何的動作那請問一下那部長你是在所以教育都跟你無關嘛你能推就推嗎這是幾個月前就跟你講了嘛你說這地方的事請問一下教育部有沒有找地方政府來討論過有沒有國教署署長"},{"start":14213.427,"end":14239.797,"text":"跟委員報告一下剛剛專業委員有問到類似您的問題行政檢調的同時把這個一般老師 科任老師有沒有機會給他加薪這個有列在我們這一次在四月份跟地方政府談的議題裡面我上個 不好意思署長上個會期就講了上個會期就講了然後呢 其實教育部你也可以編這個錢嘛你們對於高教我上次就講了嘛高教那時候特別預算送過來就是幾百億"},{"start":14240.857,"end":14265.3,"text":"就覺得高教 但我覺得我們也都支持高教啊那高教幾百億 你覺得不編這幾百億高教的韌性會有問題那現在大家今天討論的主題就是怎麼面臨少師化嘛剛剛那麼多委員都有提到我的這個方案才增加二十幾億然後可以讓一般的老師他不兼行政 沒有當導師他也可以透過減終點的方式得到一點加薪"},{"start":14266.741,"end":14286.528,"text":"這全國大概就是二三十億然後你就是做不到這個地方的事然後幾個月前跟你們講你說那個地方那你也沒有找地方啊這是全國的嘛 撿終點難道是台北市的事嗎是新北市的事嗎要撿當然全國一起撿啊這也是可以全國一體試用啊為什麼教育部不願意呢所以委員我問部長"},{"start":14287.964,"end":14307.79,"text":"沒有 委員到底要剪幾小兩個終點我剛講了嘛這個跟地方當然 我們還是那你請問一下你去那你去跟他們討論沒那現在剛才署長已經有跟你報告說我們四月已經把四月我是上個會期講的你那時候說要研議結果你現在因為我來這邊問了所以你跟我說四月"},{"start":14309.062,"end":14332.628,"text":"那我沒有問就8月啦我再沒有問就12月啦公務員報告你不要大聲啦不是大聲跟大聲小聲什麼關係那我跟部長報告你回答問題不要那麼蠻憨我沒有蠻憨你如果說要來站態度的話要站態度大家一起來站啊我也是就事論事我們尊重地方也跟地方協調希望有一個共通的但是你沒有做"},{"start":14333.516,"end":14344.31,"text":"你到現在為止都沒有做做得比較慢是這樣沒有錯嗎好啦你要來站態度啦我不要大聲啦那你可不可以積極"},{"start":14345.472,"end":14369.533,"text":"可以啊你可以做一個積極的教育部長嗎你可以做一個面對問題解決問題然後針對教育困境提出方案的部長嗎我是一個非常積極的教育部長是自我感覺良好阿偉我可不可以補充一下因為你那時候提的時候我們是提用12月31號那個方案已經先做了一波現在地方政府要連續12月31號是什麼方案加了那三項加薪"},{"start":14371.614,"end":14393.345,"text":"我是上個會期提出來因為三項加薪衍生出來的問題就是一般老師他的待課費用增加如果他不是行政職不是導師等於是這波加薪對他沒有幫助但反而是付出更多成本這個是上個會議講不是12月底的方案我們是12月底宣布那個方案所以您提的時候不是因應那個三項加薪"},{"start":14394.285,"end":14417.285,"text":"三项加薪是在一月份你又在跟我提过说能不能够也考虑我跟委员回报说这一个因为涉及到地方政府容我在最近一次通盘性的演绎中一起来规划因为这个要由刚刚委员讲的你说的减两节地方政府在12月他们已经花了大概21亿是不是容我在跟地方政府沟通呢什么时候"},{"start":14417.785,"end":14443.104,"text":"什麼時候 那我們訂一個日期出來好不好剛剛有講到四月中以前四月中會完成溝通是不是會完成溝通 第一次溝通因為這會涉及到五項方案剛剛跟陳培英委員講到五項其中有含一項您提到的這一類要不要用減中這一類思考讓老師行政減量但恐怕沒有辦法減但有點實質加薪這些都是我們的規劃可是時序上跟委員再補充一下"},{"start":14443.724,"end":14468.956,"text":"剛剛的時序是這個樣子喔 謝謝四月是不是四月是不是對好 那到時候我四月再來問喔好 再來喔我再請教一下因為最近學測開始放榜嘛那我這邊有接到一些學生的抱怨啦也反映給部長 署長知道因為如果要申請用學測要申請入學是不是要準備學期歷程檔案對吧 要準備學期歷程檔案嘛那結果呢"},{"start":14469.895,"end":14492.328,"text":"學生其實說考得也不錯啦但是可能因為有些學校要入學他有一個門檻嘛比如國文加社會要達到幾分或是哪一科加哪一科要幾分可是有時候就差一分兩分他就沒有辦法去申請他理想的學校但是他的學習歷程檔案已經做一大堆所以學生就在抱怨那為什麼既然我沒有機會去申請這些學校為什麼要做這些學習歷程檔案呢"},{"start":14495.129,"end":14519.211,"text":"那以前的做法啦在108課綱之前的做法是說申請學校就是你如果達到申請那間學校的標準的時候給你幾個月讓你去準備備審資料以前的做法是這樣可是後來把它改成說有一些可能教育專家吧認為說那這樣學生壓力太大要他在兩三個月之內就要準備那麼多資料啊那乾脆就讓他高一就開始"},{"start":14519.992,"end":14544.413,"text":"高一就開始結果反而就造成我剛剛講的那個狀況那我再提一個數據啦我相信教育部應該很清楚學習歷程檔案現在越來越大家不想教最新的數據學習成果的未提交比例都接近五成了在高一的時候高一喔高一還是應該是比較聽話的時候剛進到這個環境還願意配合這個體制到高三可能七成多不想教啊"},{"start":14545.393,"end":14570.487,"text":"所以這個學期歷程檔案真的是應該到了檢討的時候他是不是真的有必要讓學生做這件事情不僅是對很多人覺得白費時間願意準備的白費時間然後很多人是乾脆不理那請問一下這個有達到當初你想要做學期歷程檔案的目的嗎部長這個跟你也沒關係啦我覺得大家也要就事問事因為這個不是你推的"},{"start":14571.107,"end":14592.189,"text":"但是既然在這個位置上面假設其他人推的東西遇到了問題那是不是由你來解決那你也是功德一件嗎跟委員報告確實我們現在也看到因為少子化以後我們大學供給量遠大於需求量所以有一定的一個程度委員剛才也提到了就是說他不需要靠"},{"start":14593.223,"end":14621.208,"text":"那个学习历程档案他就可以进入到大学我们现在已经折成这个大学入学考试这个委员会跟高中端做一个针对这个学习历程档案在政策上做一个认真的一个讨论看到底要有什么样的一个因应与时俱进的一个方法简单来讲比如说如果有一些大学他事实上他就从不管申请申请入学或者特殊选材里边"},{"start":14622.421,"end":14648.495,"text":"或者繁星他已經不需要用到或者有一些大學他心要真正去看學生的一個學習歷程檔案我們還是希望認真的來思考這個學習歷程檔案對他們的選材跟學生的一個未來的發展上搭的一個價值性因為現在是多元入學啦有的入學方式本來就不用學習歷程檔案嘛比如你考分科就不用學習歷程檔案但是我們現在對我現在是針對"},{"start":14649.736,"end":14668.344,"text":"申請入學的部分嘛學測加上學習程檔案的部分嘛那這個部分很多人認為說也不需要嘛然後還有你會造成學生的負擔嘛他高一高二就開始做對 高一高二就開始做結果他因為學測沒考好就全部都白做啦那為什麼不能恢復像以前一樣"},{"start":14669.484,"end":14688.56,"text":"就是說他要申請在備審資料就好為什麼要強迫他們高一高二就要做那當然你們會講說什麼高一高二就可以來做的話校園什麼什麼自主探索啊什麼那你們去評估一下他的成效呢那這個其實也有對老師增加負擔嘛因為學生要做要上傳老師也要看"},{"start":14689.321,"end":14701.968,"text":"所以如果一件事情大家都認為說他沒有達到你當初設定的目標反而製造一些困擾的時候對老師、對學生都有困擾的時候那這個東西還有必要持續下去嗎?我現在是講這件事情好不好,那一樣啦這個學紀念檔案"},{"start":14709.811,"end":14735.689,"text":"每次講都說會思考會研議會什麼我們壓一個日期好不好你是不是可以在什麼時間點把你們的決定或者是怎麼改良要繼續還是怎麼做給大家一個報告好不好各位委員報告針對這個學習歷程檔案其實我們每個月都有召開所謂的剛海部長所說的考照聯動小組的檢討但是在裡面還沒有形成一個比較完善還是有人認為說根據108課剛還是要讓學生提報這個所謂的學習"},{"start":14740.152,"end":14757.944,"text":"但是也有部分的學者專家就如同委員剛才所說的可以做一些調整跟改變那雙方還沒有具體的共識這個我們會持續的市長我們不能等了啦如果要等到全世界人大家意見都一致的話那這個事情可能可能118課剛剛都出來了啦"},{"start":14759.464,"end":14779.471,"text":"你壓一個日期就決定嘛利大於弊還怎麼樣就要做一個決定的不是讓他一直拖啦當然你們的感覺都是一動不如一進嘛可是現在這個問題就衍生出來很多人在抱怨嘛你要做一個決斷嘛那你如果認為說這個東西好要繼續你也跟社會大眾公布一下啊你壓一個日期沒關係壓一個日期三個月內"},{"start":14783.272,"end":14803.519,"text":"利弊分析提供給那個利弊分析之外要告訴大家說怎麼做啦好不好具體的做法啦好不好具體的做法啦好謝謝好是葉元之委員部長署長請回座好接下來有請吳立華召委"},{"start":14810.647,"end":14836.793,"text":"謝謝主席有請鄭部長還有袁明慧好有請鄭部長袁明慧委員好部長好辛苦了部長我不曉得您知不知道原住民的人口目前佔全國總數"},{"start":14840.029,"end":14855.827,"text":"的比例你知道嗎不到3%這是很聰明的回答那我跟部長來說明其實在我們看那個數據2004年的時候"},{"start":14859.006,"end":14862.627,"text":"我们全国人数有2269万人到了2013年2337万人但是2026年呢下滑到2328万人"},{"start":14874.571,"end":14892.688,"text":"相對的我們來看原住民的人口數他從44.3萬爬升到53.2萬再爬升到現在的62.9萬那如果以比例來看的話呢在2004年到現在2026年他從1.9%"},{"start":14897.212,"end":14918.65,"text":"來到2.2%再來到現在的2.7%所以剛才的部長的回答是非常有智慧的3%以下那我覺得部長如果您看到這樣的數據你會不會覺得原住民沒有少子化的現象對國家很有貢獻部長您覺得如何"},{"start":14923.993,"end":14948.702,"text":"我想原住民的這些族群事實上在我心目中充滿創意而且才華橫溢我有許多同學他們就展現這樣的不管從藝術或者從文學從社會觀有很多另外我們也看到台灣現在"},{"start":14950.183,"end":14977.732,"text":"有一定比例的我們在所謂的在世界上看到台灣的貢獻台灣之光事實上也是來自於我們原住民並且包含經典賽包含許多的這些國際的運動這個競技上的一些我們光是看每一次出國比賽的棒球隊大概都有一半50%的比例是原住民所以確實很有貢獻您提到如果101大樓"},{"start":14980.752,"end":14994.886,"text":"雖然不是原住民去攀登的但是101大樓是很多原住民去蓋的甚至是目前勞動部統計全國前五大的缺工行業"},{"start":14996.127,"end":15022.121,"text":"恰恰是原住民的前五大投入的行业所以没有人要做的都是原住民在做确实对我们这个国家贡献很大但是我们要靠教育翻身所以在我们的原教法的第十一条特别这样子写着中央政府因宽列预算专款办理原住民主教育其比率"},{"start":15022.901,"end":15040.547,"text":"合计不得少于中央教育主管机关预算总额1.9%并依其需求逐年成长这个是2004年的法条所以呢在2013年的时候呢我们把它修到了2.2%"},{"start":15043.608,"end":15061.938,"text":"這個是10年的一個調整但是又過了13年到現在又時隔13年我們的比例又來到了2.7%想要了解一下部長您覺得在您的任內該不該做這樣的調整"},{"start":15063.666,"end":15079.576,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心原住民的許多的教育的一些經費那確實我們這些年在根據法令上的一個編制我們以15年來講已經到2.54那如果就人口比例好像又似乎稍微"},{"start":15080.716,"end":15107.921,"text":"少了一點但是怎麼樣對原住民教育投入更多的一些資源包括對原住民人才的培育我想這教育部基本立場跟委員是一致的好謝謝但我也想聽一聽因為我知道原民會在這一路上應該都是教文處在負責這個業務那想聽一下表示一下意見原民會的意見好謝謝委員對我們原住民族孩子的關心我想"},{"start":15108.92,"end":15127.915,"text":"原教好規定的原住民教育的總經費的1.9%是十三年前修法的時候所訂定不過我們這幾年跟教育部合作已經把我們的年度預算的編列已經達到了2.54已經遠超過法律規定的比例了那我想"},{"start":15129.142,"end":15149.811,"text":"要在法定的修法裡面去把這個比例再提升我們認為目前的現狀是已經有達到這樣的一個實際的需求不過我要提醒的是說因為從去年那個平埔族群身份法通過之後未來今年度開始會有很多很多的平埔族群會回到原住民族的家庭所以"},{"start":15150.091,"end":15168.9,"text":"未來原住民的教育的預算不能以現在的人口數來算應該是要再考慮未來平衡處境加入之後會有更多的需求會加進來這個是可能我們跟教育部一起要再來思考的好 謝謝謝謝園民會的一個回應因為我們希望可以開始啟動"},{"start":15170.481,"end":15187.513,"text":"原教法第11條的修正因為也已經隔很久人口比例也往上升那更重要的是我們從目前高教原住民的出債學率跟全體高教生的出債學率那個是斷崖式的差距將近30%"},{"start":15189.754,"end":15208.849,"text":"所以呢我覺得在這個部分需要更多的教育經費來協助我們的原住民的學生那我也謝謝部長長期以來去肯定這樣的做法那接下來就是想要提到的就是為什麼我們需要更多的經費就像陳培宇委員剛剛講的實驗三法"},{"start":15212.452,"end":15230.062,"text":"施行也已經十年了那也需要去做一些討論所以可能會辦公聽會那原住民的部分原住民實驗學校很多也都已經走了一段時間他們也很迷惘不知道下一步何去何從"},{"start":15230.862,"end":15247.433,"text":"那甚至是原住民族學校法被明定在原教法裡面是要定定的執法可是時至今日大家對於什麼是原住民族學校也沒有想法 沒有共識所以也謝謝原民會已經編列經費開始做事辦但是這些都很需要更多的原住民的教育經費來支撐所以在這個部分就特別的要請部長來支持"},{"start":15258.78,"end":15279.227,"text":"那因為今天也排了一個就是關於教師法第25條的一個審查那這個是源自於這些年發生了一件事因為109年修訂的這個教師解聘辦法就是有了校事會議這個名稱校園事件處理法"},{"start":15282.668,"end":15304.097,"text":"那麼到了112年的時候呢為了要說避免同一個事件重複的調查不同的機制運作有不同的調查結果本來是好意啦所以希望把性別事件以外的所有失對生的違法事件全部都整合到這個校事會議裡面結果沒有想到美意不成反而變成一場夢魘"},{"start":15310.52,"end":15333.169,"text":"那我們可以看到我們也有請教育部幫我們做統計才實施校事會議的這樣的一個整合型結果短短一年發現原來80%的投訴案件是不成立的而且成立的當中呢其實只有50%是需要申借的那其他呢"},{"start":15333.849,"end":15362.184,"text":"造成我們老師這麼樣的一個動盪所以在這邊我們就是要提到說我們必須要把老師的尊嚴找回來那我也知道部長您上任以來其實我覺得啦其實你的回應是算不錯的當我們說要啟動校事會議的討論其實我們也討論了而且1月也已經公告新的包括分流包括"},{"start":15362.904,"end":15386.709,"text":"不處理匿名的包括要怎麼樣去新增輔佐的機制等等但是我想要請教一下部長因為還是有人喊廢除校事會議還是有人這樣喊雖然我們覺得這樣的一個修訂已經回到1、2年之前原來的做法"},{"start":15387.549,"end":15408.961,"text":"但是仍有人發出了廢除校事會議這樣的聲音所以我想跟部長請示一下 請教一下如果明年的一月我們再來統計從一月新實施的這個辦法我們希望明年的一月看到實施的一個結果"},{"start":15409.801,"end":15418.275,"text":"那如果還是不盡理想我不知道部長您會回應他們很多人喊要廢除消失會議這件事嗎"},{"start":15421.633,"end":15442.688,"text":"各位報告 確實我們新的校試法以後我們也一直在掌握 除每個月我們現在目前是每個月在做追蹤 各校因為新的校試法裡面所造成的一些實際的進展請部長報告 現在上路以來的一個月"},{"start":15443.568,"end":15469.976,"text":"對每個月我們現在以後我們每個月在追蹤那在去年的時候當時也感謝委員的關心我們也希望說至少在收集這個新的法實行以後到今年的六月我們希望在今年的暑假至少有一個半年的觀察期看它的一個效益怎麼樣然後再有一個假設大家還覺得可以更精進我們再有一個新的一個想像"},{"start":15470.656,"end":15498.051,"text":"謝謝部長開放的態度那因為我們有高級中等以下學校教師大概有21萬人那其實大家也都很關注這件事但是至少我還是要肯定部長因為關於找回老師尊嚴這件事情有很多事情喊了很久包括調升導師費啊終點費的調升啊行政加急的調升啊還有擴大這些偏鄉教師的保險啊然後甚至是談到"},{"start":15499.572,"end":15523.91,"text":"年資的採計或者是終點費的調生要涵蓋到教學支援人員還有包括偏鄉久任獎金一直調一直調現在的態度應該是幾乎有反應其實都接納了所以從這個部分其實我們看得出來部長您確實是抱持著一個非常開放的態度那在這裡我們就是希望說"},{"start":15525.131,"end":15553.54,"text":"我們還有一件事沒做就是今天要排審的教師法的第25條我們希望對於這些被停聘然後呢復聘回復名譽我覺得最起碼該有的尊嚴就是全心還給他那至於其他的部分像家籍的部分我想人種主計種也都在這邊但是我們想要特別強調"},{"start":15555.08,"end":15570.097,"text":"教師幸福感的調查為什麼親子天下會來做調查就是因為我們發現這一兩年特別特別老師的聲音就是斷崖式的滑落已經有"},{"start":15571.993,"end":15596.579,"text":"一半的老師覺得不幸福然後這個問卷是有意義的因為是回收了5412份問卷然後有超過六成的老師是想要離開教職所以這個時候我希望在我們討論教師法第25條的時候我們希望我們的各個機關各個代表都能夠秉持著一個開放的態度"},{"start":15598.18,"end":15616.74,"text":"來讓老師的尊嚴至少能夠回復我們不知道怎麼回復他的名譽但是我們至少要回復他這段時間所損失的我想這是最基本的那部長不曉得你的態度如何謝謝委員關心我們老師的一個權益包括他的名義上怎麼樣去維護"},{"start":15618.081,"end":15636.97,"text":"我的想法跟委員的一個看法是一致的我們也希望說怎麼樣讓老師能夠更安心因為當他將心比心當他變成被不實的指控或者誤解而造成的一些訴訟後來恢復他基本上不是規則而已我覺得是應該給他全心好"},{"start":15639.812,"end":15651.953,"text":"謝謝部長在這邊就我們就等下午的排審好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳麗華教委部長跟署長請回"},{"start":15664.203,"end":15689.848,"text":"依照先前的宣告我們先來處理臨時提案今天提出的臨時提案有一案那請問提案委員我們先請宣讀臨時提案內國民教育階段部分男性學生面臨學習退縮情緒壓抑作為孤立及暴力風險增加等男性困境並形成有毒的男子氣概"},{"start":15691.564,"end":15709.269,"text":"為現行課程與教師培訓能缺乏系統性的男性困境研究與教材教育部如何具體落實形成相關教材如何在學校進行推廣周知教師培訓及鼓勵社會討論同時針對如何形成教材如何鼓勵社會討論手術"},{"start":15710.569,"end":15712.37,"text":"請問提案委員有沒有補充說明或意見"},{"start":15726.401,"end":15741.767,"text":"好 謝謝主席我來說明一下這個提案是本席所提雖然我們是女性也十分關心這個男性的困境這個議題所以希望教育部要作為教育主管機關能給你相關的教育對策讓這個社會對這個現象有更多的認識"},{"start":15744.528,"end":15768.496,"text":"那近年來在學術界其實男性困境這個詞開始有比較多的討論那特別是台灣男性協會這個等團體在那個論述中有被凸顯出來就許多男性他感受到自己竟已經失去在父權結構中的那種特權位置那又沒有被清楚的提供新的角色的典範因而會產生一種被責備卻找不出口的這種焦慮狀態"},{"start":15774.438,"end":15789.971,"text":"那台灣男性協會有觀察到這個台灣的性別平等跟女性的主義發展其實已經讓很多的女生女性清楚可以做自己的空間那但同時社會對男性的期待卻沒有同步的鬆動"},{"start":15791.212,"end":15809.378,"text":"所以許多的男性在伴侶跟家庭關係中被要求也要溝通 要溫柔要承擔情緒勞動可是他卻缺乏被教導如何做這件事的資源或者是支持所以說男性困境不只是變得比較弱勢"},{"start":15810.658,"end":15834.508,"text":"而且它更是一種在傳統跟當代的價值之間的拉扯的那種未知的模糊那我覺得這種多重的矛盾變成了是男性困境的結構性的面向那我想不只是單一男生的問題喔這是整套社會對男人應該怎麼做的規範跟期待沒有同步被調整跟翻新所帶來的狀況"},{"start":15835.908,"end":15858.4,"text":"所以最後我要強調的是傳統對男性的期待擁有的什麼男子氣概其實是對很多男性來說我覺得他們也是受害者所以因此我就希望教育部可以研擬這個相關的各教育階段的教學對策讓這個社會更認識男性困境這些議題 以上請問教育部有沒有補充說明"},{"start":15865.444,"end":15868.126,"text":"好 招案通過臨時提案處理完畢 繼續我們請劉淑斌委員質詢劉淑 換了有請楊瓊英委員詢答 請"},{"start":15891.684,"end":15895.226,"text":"我們共同來討論教師荒的問題因為我們看到教師荒他不是未來的他是現在正在發生的這個危機所以請教教育部長"},{"start":15915.512,"end":15941.218,"text":"目前已經出現了結構性教師人力的一個危機那這個出現的現象本期來綜合幾項第一個教師增試的時候報名人數他是下降的但是我們在錄取率上升但仍然是補不滿甚至出現了有分科別的部分部分科別的部分是開缺但是沒有人來報考"},{"start":15942.538,"end":15959.561,"text":"那如果說連想當老師的人都在減少的時候那我們教育部在整個培育的制度是不是有出現了失靈的這個狀況那第二個我要提出更嚴重的問題是人留不住"},{"start":15960.402,"end":15987.372,"text":"人留不住那第一件的教師呢反應最直接他說工作負擔過重還有加上行政壓力爆炸尤其是導師加行政的雙重負擔所以各類的這個評鑑填報工作它是不斷的在增加所以本期要請教教育部你是不是有一個整體的人力重建的這個計畫"},{"start":15988.902,"end":16017.576,"text":"因為如果制度不改那未來還要有人願意當老師嗎如果現在的現象已經產生那我們的教育我們的制度到底要怎麼改因為教師荒它不只是教育的問題它更是國安的一個議題所以本席認為我們要怎麼樣支持老師不讓他有這些的困境也就是國家的競爭力才能夠不流失"},{"start":16018.457,"end":16019.181,"text":"我要請教部長"},{"start":16022.253,"end":16047.14,"text":"謝謝委員關心我們老師的培育跟老師的穩定性首先我要跟委員報告我們教師人才人力上的流失當然有因素是複雜的譬如說每30年一個世代117年從民國57年到現在剛好第二個世代交替這是一個原因第二個我們在這個產業上"},{"start":16049.16,"end":16064.691,"text":"產業上我們當然是科技產業真的是蓬勃發展他也吸引了許多steam的老師第三個我們在私私的培育從過去我們這一個等於說工會的一個從師大工會的制度我們缺多少老師就"},{"start":16065.552,"end":16084.446,"text":"招考的招多少的學生來儲備但是我們現在完全是儲備制多元施施多元從民國83年開放以後我們的老師就是我們以現在來講我們施施的培育的供給量事實上是遠大於需求量這個我也必須要先說明那最近"},{"start":16085.959,"end":16108.353,"text":"特別在去年我們看到許多代理老師會大量的缺失因為來自於我們要希望能夠確保國民教育的品質國教雖然少子化但是我們希望各校不要有太多比例的代理代課老師儘管他們裡邊也有很多熱情有使命感的所以我們國教從1111年到1114年裡邊"},{"start":16109.634,"end":16133.4,"text":"特別透過這個只要各校保留8%因為我們看到地方縣市教育這個中小學當然有的這個代理老師占到20幾% 30幾%我們希望穩定這個老師的一個教育品質老師能夠最多控留因應潮汁或控留8%所以呢從11年開始"},{"start":16133.8,"end":16143.532,"text":"由國教署來補助地方教育局處經會如果你學校只控留在8%改善了等於說你要開始"},{"start":16145.446,"end":16163.364,"text":"這個釋放出更多的正規的合格的教師的缺那麼從111年開始每年大概都補了五千個等於111、121、113、114這樣裡面這四年裡面大概原來代理代課老師有兩萬個大概幾乎都到"},{"start":16164.245,"end":16190.107,"text":"變成正式缺的老師所以呢我們變成有一些原來代理代課的老師他確實是會有一些不足再加上譬如說以台北市非常嚴重大家都看到的一些媒體的報導因為台北市在過去代理代課老師他是給一年的一個薪資當法院判定各地方縣市我們22地方縣市有的給9個月有的給10個月"},{"start":16192.549,"end":16219.806,"text":"並沒有像台北市一年當我們這一個制度一改變全部代理代課都要給一年的薪資的時候台北市的物價生活資格方面當然他就比不上這個因為條件都一樣了所以呢有一定比例的年輕人他當然要從事教職他有熱情他就回到他自己的這個自己的故鄉裡邊我想他是有多樣的一個原因在"},{"start":16220.974,"end":16243.155,"text":"在滚动那当然我们也看到偏乡的离岛的比如说原住民地区我们开始从去年就请屏东大学里边开原住民专班工会专班我们也看到steam的一些课也请台湾师大去开一些这个工会的专班除了这个以外我们还有一些学士或专班"},{"start":16243.675,"end":16265.205,"text":"甚至對這個偏鄉離島的這些代理代課老師他沒有教育學問我們甚至開線上的一個課程我們事實上是從整體的整體的一個系統裡面去看私私的培育包括世代的一個交替我們希望在這個部分培養出來的老師一方面解決我們許多熱情老師能夠留在"},{"start":16266.543,"end":16292.326,"text":"這一個中小學繼續這一個為台灣培養人才另外一個我們開始更大量的培養這一個各領域的這一個所謂的實施人才比如說包含steam的steam的這樣的一個人才那當然我也利用這個機會要拜託我們地方政府怎麼樣當教育部培養足夠的這樣的一個各領域的人才實施人力的時候我們地方怎麼樣去"},{"start":16293.686,"end":16322.225,"text":"透過一個攬財的一個機制跟流財的一個機制讓許多我們年輕人能夠繼續為台灣培養人才來一起努力一起為台灣做出本席之所以願意要給部長你大概三分鐘的時間去說明但是我們看到你目前所有的政策跟制度跟執行還是一個問題叫是謊所以我本席認為說我們當政府制定了制度之後"},{"start":16323.226,"end":16344.864,"text":"制定的制度在執行的同時你必須要去看到目前的現況到底是如何如果依照剛剛部長你所說的那沒有辦法去解決我們現在所稱的教師荒所以呢還好你知道問題在哪裡那這個問題因為你身為我們教育的最大的這個機構"},{"start":16347.026,"end":16351.269,"text":"所以更應當要從中怎麼樣去嚴明方案能夠落實到目前家長學校等沒有教師荒的這個隱憂這才是我們要的所以我願意給你這麼多的時間來說明也就是到目前為止我們的制度你要怎麼去調整我還是一句話本席說我們希望協助學校"},{"start":16373.123,"end":16399.763,"text":"協助我們的家長協助我們的教師他不是教師荒三個字一直印記在我們的社會在我們的教育當中所以我具體的建議請你把你剛剛目前所說的你預計的KPI到底是如何你順便資料給本席我希望把這個教師荒這三個字能夠去除掉真正幫助學校OK嗎你多久時間可以告訴本席多久時間"},{"start":16403.186,"end":16430.378,"text":"根文包括會後我們事實上這個data我們事實上都可以隨時就是因為你這個data要怎麼去調整嘛好不好你既然已經有了你一個禮拜時間給本席接下來本席在主席本席要討論的是說在我們的整個升學制度到底公不公平因為我們一直認為學習歷程我們所強調的是要多元性的一個表現"},{"start":16431.638,"end":16452.254,"text":"而且減輕壓力但是現在似乎有變成了什麼呢有資源的學生他補習競賽包裝成果資源不足的學生他只能夠填寫基本的資料所以本期要請教部長在城鄉學生在鼎大錄取的一個比例差距有沒有持續在擴大"},{"start":16453.695,"end":16478.695,"text":"因為我們制定了這個制度教育最重要的是一個立足點的一個公平資源差異的一個影響評估本期認為必須在一段時間做滾動式的一個調整那我們的目的就是要落實當時設計的公平跟欠壓的目標這是非常重要 請做說明"},{"start":16480.602,"end":16495.928,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實事實上我們當這一個制度在改變的時候我們的城鄉的這些比較鄉區的這些學校的學生錄取鼎大的一個比例事實上是在增加的我想詳細的情形請廖市長來說說"},{"start":16497.568,"end":16518.617,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們的升學管道現在分很多一個是繁星那繁星其實就是顧及到每校都等值的這樣的一個概念所以不管是城鄉或者是在城市地區的學生的入學率其實是差不多的那再來就是針對學習歷程檔案城鄉之間有沒有差距這我們有進行相關的研究調查是不是會後我們提供給委員做"},{"start":16519.397,"end":16545.929,"text":"所以部長就針對城鄉差距在這個部分跟社會階級落差的這個部分本是非常重視你們必須要滾動式的去檢討最後一個功課我要請教因為3月23號教育部跟司法院跟法務部有開了公聽會也就針對校園暴力的這個問題精神狀況不穩學生的事件那家長請問的一句話"},{"start":16546.829,"end":16569.927,"text":"孩子在学校是真的安全吗这句话在我们的教育这个层面来说是不应当有这样子的话语因为我们一定要让我们的孩子安全所以目前为止我们教育部似乎都停滞在个案的一个处理所以本期要请教部长3月23号的公听会也就是针对于"},{"start":16570.487,"end":16590.552,"text":"是不是有專輔機構讓暴力強制去在專輔機構裡頭來協助讓原本的校園能夠安全也讓教師能夠有權責的來處理這是我們在維護我們孩子的安全那目前為止早上我也特別在法治委員會也請問了這個"},{"start":16595.273,"end":16620.058,"text":"這個法務部他是跟你的立場是贊同來設置專輔機構但是司法還是認為有疑慮所以我特別要請部長站在你的立場你是贊成的教育部是贊成的是不是要更積極的三方再去會合還給家長讓孩子在校園安全的一個放心請教部長"},{"start":16627.458,"end":16642.543,"text":"對於這些有暴力或是一些情緒困擾的這些學生怎麼樣有一個更個別化的一些安置跟教育的方案我想這都是一直我們在試驗"},{"start":16645.882,"end":16670.46,"text":"好謝謝這個願意三方趕快再會合還給校園的一個安全謝謝好謝謝楊瓊英委員請部長回座接下來有請劉淑斌委員詢答好謝謝主席那有請鄭部長好有請鄭部長"},{"start":16677.984,"end":16696.78,"text":"委員好部長好那我們知道去年呢 教育部調高了國中小的導師費還有包括監政的這個終點費並增訂了行政獎金 這就提高了但是獨立了以工作為終點計時的這個專輔教師那請問這部分"},{"start":16702.506,"end":16712.099,"text":"因為這部分我在1月19號的時候也做了這樣一個質詢部長你那時候說應該要跟人事行動總署來做研議才可以知道那現在過了70天請問現在研議進度是怎麼樣有什麼結果嗎"},{"start":16718.34,"end":16740.757,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在目前確實在這個專輔老師因為他的一個工作性質事實上是跟中小學老師是不一樣的他並沒有一節一節的他是個案在結果案裡面您的現在進度是怎麼樣還沒有研議結果出現嗎我們目前並沒有並沒有一個具體的有在研議嗎"},{"start":16742.059,"end":16762.917,"text":"有有有那大概什麼時候要做研議跟委員報告剛剛部長已經特別有說明接到委員這樣一個垂詢之後部長立即請我們就各類老師包含甚至剛才柯恩老師的一個情形我們都做研議包含地方政府的態度所以這一些可能因為一點時間要收斂具體的講"},{"start":16764.358,"end":16792.77,"text":"像目前你采个案认定以现在学校在认定个案上二级辅导它的认定的情形或是个案数量你可能它有它的复杂性小校有小校的复杂性六师班的学校跟六班的学校所以你要花很多时间吗这个可能要有22县市政府有经验的这些福祉中心可能要给我们一点时间但我觉得这一类的演绎很有价值它得要走过这个过程没有办法一下跳到那个答案"},{"start":16794.77,"end":16817.456,"text":"可能給我們兩個月從1月19號您問了之後那兩個月我們已經有初步了解到縣市對這件事的可能的態度但還有專業的團體以及現在我們剛剛有講到的五個議題在4月份會跟地方政府一起談整體的相關的會商那個會商會比較大規模會涉及到剛剛您提到的這個議題好"},{"start":16819.236,"end":16842.834,"text":"那包括上他非上班時間的這個加班他這部分也是會考量去一去就對了這個比較細節的會等到所有研議的那個議案會從上層一直到中層或下層這個逐個議題再來一起探討好 謝謝那我們又聽到的是因為中央呢在輔資中心的這個安排上面呢這個中央因為"},{"start":16844.356,"end":16870.297,"text":"才化法的一個理由然後減少了對縣市的這樣的輔資中心的一個補助從87%降少為到50%以下那這部分呢結果那個他的督導的能量就不夠了那請問可是這個民眾的學生他自己的一個心理的健康的需求是很重要的他還是都有需求嗎那預計用哪些措施來跟各縣市政府合作來照顧到孩子們的這個心理健康呢"},{"start":16872.625,"end":16894.571,"text":"跟各位人報告那委員剛剛關心的涉及到補助比率以及在相關的補助下怎麼樣強化中央地方的合作那首先因為在財劃法的確我很坦率地講國教署的經費是最直接跟地方政府有關那跟這一波的財劃法也是直接相關我們被大概整體調雲了大概138億所以相關的這個補助的設算會變動"},{"start":16900.12,"end":16907.195,"text":"那地方政府我們隨便抽取四個直轄市有兩個直轄市增加400多億有兩個直轄市增加"},{"start":16909.879,"end":16935.692,"text":"300億有一個省轄市增加200億有一個第一級的縣市增加188億地方政府應該把錢撥出來讓大家出來是不是可能就會照委員講的我們會有一些在第一個議題上在經費的整體的運作上會有一些溝通第二點可能在即便這樣的一個情況下部長還是站在整個國家往前學生的利益最大的話所以這裡面會有一些措施"},{"start":16936.192,"end":16961.697,"text":"仍然在不變的情況下還會往前進例如最新修的輔導法在輔導室的功能還有各處是包含普特融合輔導室統整功能等等這新一波的執法都在運作中那這也是新修的學生輔導法之後的四個執法那在併同四月份可能還有一個新的執法以及相關的補助要點都會來運用在這些措施的強化 謝謝"},{"start":16962.677,"end":16981.168,"text":"好 謝謝我們看到國教署有這樣的用心發現到這個才化法上面的分配精粹上面的也願意做這樣的相關執法的再把它補充進去好 謝謝那最後一個問題就是涉及到我們關心到大專的部分就在大學呢每900位的學生才分配到一名具有心理師跟社工師資格的這個專輔人員"},{"start":16982.509,"end":17005.043,"text":"但是這些專輔人員他們事實上在三年這個就算九任了啦流動率就非常高尤其看到他們最終把行政負擔過多雜務也過多這些部分薪資當然不如預期因為一個諮商師可能一個小時就是一兩千塊的這樣子的一個費用那現在想要問的是說如果降低大學薪輔人員的流動率這部分那請這邊部長是不是能夠做回答"},{"start":17008.078,"end":17035.473,"text":"跟委員報告有關大專幸福人員的這個部分其實我們在去年就有提高我們相關的經費補助那像國立的部分我們就是提高到一個人要55萬然後私立的部分一個人是提高到65萬其實我們光是今年補助給大專校園的這個幸福人力就經費就高達3億多了那這個部分我們也會持續跟各學校來一起合作然後看怎麼樣的措施可以讓這些人可以繼續留任那你們這個是專款專用嗎"},{"start":17037.074,"end":17038.074,"text":"謝謝劉淑冰委員的質詢 請部長回座下一位有請邱惠如委員"},{"start":17069.093,"end":17074.086,"text":"主席還有各位委員同仁還有各位政府部門的同仁大家好那我們有請鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":17081.789,"end":17088.312,"text":"今天我站在這邊是想替偏遠地區的校戶來請命因為似乎感覺政府忘了校戶的存在我們講一下其實針對偏遠地區因為人才有容易流失的問題"},{"start":17103.9,"end":17117.871,"text":"所以呢我們這個學校的偏遠地區學校教育發展條例就規範說為了挽留這些專業人力在偏遠地區所以呢有規範的9任獎金那部長不知道您知不知道這件事9任獎金是"},{"start":17132.689,"end":17151.29,"text":"確實我們九任獎金從教育部來講我們當然學校裡面第一個思考的就是老師、校長、主任這些嘛那確實也因為這樣校務或者過去有一些輔導人員在這個部分就被社工人力的一個在校園裡面就被忽略"},{"start":17151.95,"end":17163.28,"text":"因為它涉及到權序部跟人事總署所以我們必須要考量所有人員上的一些性質跟設立的一些特性所以我想這個還有待一些跨部會的一些討論部長謝謝你的回覆那你剛剛提到說教師要關照到"},{"start":17170.206,"end":17181.094,"text":"可是事實上這個偏遠的地區學校教育發展條例他關照到的不是只有教師而已他關照到是10類的人員10類的人員而我們校護卻不在這10類人員的範圍之內關照的人非常的多可是我們"},{"start":17187.538,"end":17205.924,"text":"我們校戶卻被獨排於外那我想這裡呈現出來的關照道的人有教師有校長那還有專聘教師代理教師專業您剛講的專業輔導人員其實他有被包括在裡面那社工人員也有包括在裡面那除此之外副社的幼兒園當中的園長"},{"start":17209.125,"end":17224.863,"text":"老師教保員助理教保員都有在這個9任獎金的發放範圍之內但是獨弄我們這個校戶難道我們校戶真的在這個政府部門的眼中這麼的不重要嗎可以獨排於這10項人員之外"},{"start":17227.213,"end":17255.419,"text":"我想我的心情跟委員是一致的校務當然是重要的它是在穩定學校的學童的一些健康的一個力量所以我同意這一個部分在校務裡面我們怎麼樣來努力或者用怎麼樣的方式因為剛才特別提到專業的輔導老師代理代課老師這都是我們教育部可以直接做為的但是因為校務基本上它的一個整個任用"},{"start":17256.997,"end":17281.738,"text":"沒有他的任用其實這10類人員的任用跟校戶也可以相提並論為什麼其他的人有校戶沒有那我們看到這些9任獎金其實雖然不是說金額非常的巨大但是至少也能夠撫慰校戶感覺好像被不公平對待的一個心情有相對剝奪感已經出現了因為別人都有但校戶都沒有那這些數字"},{"start":17282.358,"end":17301.18,"text":"好這些數字真的是既看不到也吃不到那再請那個署長幫我們來做一個說明謝謝委員給我們這個說明我用10秒簡單的說明剛剛講的幾類人員他屬於部長或是國教署或是地方政府教育單位可以直接做決定而不涉及到相關單位人員"},{"start":17302.862,"end":17312.576,"text":"今天如果在包含衛福部、全序部在看校護護理師這個角色的時候可能也會讓我們去顧慮要我們也多幫忙去思考校護之外的護理人員"},{"start":17317.884,"end":17334.145,"text":"那種也有在偏遠地區譬如說衛生所等等所以這個是不是容我們也做一些討論因此在當時的第21條他大概有這些顧慮之後希望教育部處理教育部能處理的部分不過剛剛部長已經有說可以再去約相關單位大家一起再討論這涉及到21條"},{"start":17336.288,"end":17362.409,"text":"相關單位討論那什麼時候可以給我們時間表因為那個署長您剛有提到嘛好像關照到學校的校戶然後就好像也會連帶的被質疑說衛生所為什麼沒有我想衛生所他們全也要把關但是我們現在是在講校園裡頭的情境其他10類人員都有了獨排校戶沒有我覺得這個可以不用扯到衛生所人員的事情去我們就是在校園裡頭我們先處理校園裡頭一件事這是第一件事"},{"start":17365.231,"end":17380.258,"text":"那第二件事其實我們偏遠地區的學校教育發展條例第九條有提到說中央政府其實是有補助地方政府某些經費的那其中有一個項目就是第九條第一項提到說這個合理的配置這個"},{"start":17381.318,"end":17405.802,"text":"護理人員然後還有協助他們的專業發展所以9任獎金的裁員就來自於第9條第2項那第1項又提到銷戶那不知道為什麼前面有關照到銷戶就第9條然後21條卻沒有關照到銷戶這是我的疑問那剛也提到您也提到說願意研議嗎那事實上早在你們願意研議之前因為銷戶一直來跟我請命那我也提出這個修正的草案那修正的草案我就在第21條的第2項把銷戶納進去了那剛你們"},{"start":17409.423,"end":17412.097,"text":"提出願意演繹 那不曉得這邊可不可以給我們一個具體的時間表"},{"start":17414.991,"end":17421.496,"text":"我們在一個月內其實對這個議題我們也覺得 像剛剛布朗講的這個護理師如果在我們的偏鄉服務那麼久看怎麼樣不會衝擊到其他的我們可以照顧好那這個是不是給我們一個月我們會約時間但這個一個月是約了以後談一下方向所以他逐步會往前進的過程或洽談的過程我們再回報委員中間的一些商議結果"},{"start":17440.711,"end":17469.013,"text":"沒有問題謝謝教育部願意帶回去研議那也希望在不久的將來就是教育部這邊跟我這邊我們能夠聯手來守護校護的一些權益然後保障偏遠地區學生的健康這樣子以上謝謝好謝謝邱惠如委員的質詢請部長回座接下來有請廖先祥委員廖先祥委員廖先祥委員不在鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在"},{"start":17469.753,"end":17480.667,"text":"有請李昆城委員巡查好 謝謝主席 我們請鄭部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":17488.289,"end":17507.889,"text":"部長好,辛苦了這個質詢到現在那我先想跟部長討論一下這個校園暴力的問題那在2023年12月的時候發生的這個新北校園的這個戈井案那這個案子最後在2026年今年2月定宴那其中的這一個郭楠被判"},{"start":17508.93,"end":17526.02,"text":"12年,教說的連女被判刑11年這已經定讞了這件事情也引起了說大家要對於說這個少年事件處理法要修法的一個問題那在今年3月又發生了這個國中生一個國中女生被履棒的霸凌的案子"},{"start":17526.92,"end":17549.708,"text":"就是說我們當然希望說藉由這個教育然後藉由這個家庭然後學校我們一起來讓這個校園暴力的這個案子能夠減少那但是呢少年事件處理法那的確也到了一個修法的一個有這個必要性那我先請教一下部長那現在就是說對於這個少年事件處理法"},{"start":17550.228,"end":17567.034,"text":"因為過去有這個一律塗銷前科那就是說你只要滿三年那你沒有再犯就一律塗銷前科那現在民間團體是希望說能夠採取這個按照這個他犯罪的這個輕重才分級這個來塗銷動態註記那我想請教一下這個部長的看法"},{"start":17575.778,"end":17596.576,"text":"這個我想從教育來看我們當然希望說人能夠給他犯錯給他有一個機會但是就這裡邊的一個塗銷他可能還是涉及到這個司法院相關的一些我是想說因為您是教育部的部長那您的看法會跟這個因為這個問題我有問過司法院"},{"start":17599.018,"end":17622.432,"text":"那他當然現在他們的這個修法是希望說採這個分罪的輕重比如說他如果是犯重罪的話那可能這個塗銷的時間會有分這個等級時間不同那就教育部的立場來看您對於這個上年事件處理法的修法是抱持什麼樣的態度那對於這個民間團體他們希望採取這個前科分級塗銷那您的態度怎麼樣"},{"start":17623.728,"end":17643.906,"text":"這裡邊譬如說這個如果是來自一個輕罪微罪他一時的一個糊塗所犯下的就是說不會涉及到生命上的一些傷害我想我從教育的立場當然我會我會傾向這一個支持但是屬於重大型案應該他必須要對"},{"start":17644.887,"end":17661.666,"text":"行為付出責任這種法令上他應該要承擔的我是認為以目前這樣委員所提供的這一個圖示來看我基本上是認同的所以部長也認同就是說我們按照這個罪行的輕重再來決定說是不是要分級來做這個前科的圖效是"},{"start":17666.141,"end":17691.018,"text":"那其實除了這個法律之外其實我們也希望從家庭教育還有從專業的社工心理師一起來努力希望說這個是最後的就是說因為你犯法之後那你怎麼樣去處理說犯罪這個青少年之後怎麼在社會上立足我們其實教育的這部分是更重要是說在"},{"start":17692.119,"end":17708.919,"text":"這個校園暴力還沒發生之前我們要做什麼預算我想這才是最重要的包括這是個大課題今天很短時間沒有辦法跟部長討論那麼多那有另外一個問題想請教一下部長就是校園交通安全那校園交通安全就是說因為在前幾天"},{"start":17709.7,"end":17734.988,"text":"發生在這個長庚大學的這個校區裡面那有一輛這個三重客運的公車它其實算是違規然後這個押到了這一個一個20歲的這一個學生那這個學生目前也還在這個加護病房當中那這其實也不是個案那現在就是說按照這個教育部你們在2024年所做的這一個校園安全災害事件的分析報告裡面光是交通事故"},{"start":17736.508,"end":17749.774,"text":"這個2024年就有608件然後受傷的有864人次那所以說這個其實校園的交通安全的這部分那其實是也值得這個教育部來做處理那可是現在就是說變成說"},{"start":17751.155,"end":17780.453,"text":"教育部跟這個交通部對於這個校園的交通安全的部分目前看來好像是處於一個深不管的地帶就是說這個在一般的道路我們就規範的很明確我們有這個道交條例這個道交的這個處罰條例來做處理但是呢這個在學校裡面其實沒有就放由這個各個學校來做處理那我不曉得說在校園這部分的話那有什麼樣更具體的一個做法那公權力要怎麼去做介入跟委員報告喔"},{"start":17781.013,"end":17805.11,"text":"我們事實上這個校安的通報裡面各大學每年發生多少的所謂的校園的交通安全的事件我們都有記錄的然後我們每一年我們把那個交通安全做得最不安全等於說他校園最不安全了我們會找學者專家去現場去看有沒有來自於基礎設施要怎麼改善要怎麼我們"},{"start":17806.211,"end":17820.448,"text":"會協助他改善從專業來協助他這幾年我們事實上也看到了一些成果原來譬如說去年被列為前十大前三名的今年看起來因為改善以後他就沒有了我想這個部分會後我再"},{"start":17820.928,"end":17849.728,"text":"把這個資料給委員我們更正向的 積極的去協助學校的改善我希望這個數字能夠減少嘛但是就是說剛剛部長所提到的應該就是一些譬如說硬體設備的一些改善道路的一些視角的一些改善當然他學校也應該要正視這個學生的行程安全嘛許多的宣導等等的那現在我也希望說交通部能夠介入在處理這部分因為現在學校的這個道路不是一般道路啊是"},{"start":17850.348,"end":17866.6,"text":"對啊 就變成說很多屬於這個道教的處罰條例裡面好像沒辦法處罰到這個校園裡面的這個大學其實校園是開放的所以社區民眾或者很多人的進出我想這個部分我們來看你們再跟交通部來"},{"start":17867.521,"end":17887.365,"text":"來怎麼樣來合作來合作怎麼讓公權力可以介入因為現在都是按照各個學校自己去處理那就是說一般道路所適用的規範那是不是在我們校園的道路因為有些校園真的很大是不是能夠一體適用這方面是不是請教育部來跟交通部來做一個協調一下謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":17890.066,"end":17910.07,"text":"好 谢谢李昆成委员的质询请部长回座接下来有请张亚林委员上台询答张亚林委员好 有请张亚林委员上台询答"},{"start":17918.147,"end":17940.372,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請部長好 有請部長委員好好 非常好我想有一件事情還要先跟部長討論一下就是說前幾天我跟台大社監受害的學生已經召開記者會因為法院已經判處加害人的一些相關刑罰那台北的高人法院"},{"start":17941.192,"end":17964.411,"text":"行政法院更明確的確認台大在性平程序存在違法的問題那我想其實我也可以看到就是教育部在這段時間裡面也做了一些事情也是來要求我們台大但是從114年的10月到115年的3月整個台大還是沒有依法重啟調查那到"},{"start":17965.832,"end":17990.767,"text":"114年的12月你們又再去持續的要求台大限期召開相關的性評會那我想問一個問題就是說我們目前呢也已經要求台大你們由教育部的性評會做成的決議視同台大性評會的決議要求從請調查我想問一下像這樣子的案例由中央來做決議的案例是多的嗎"},{"start":17994.558,"end":18021.457,"text":"這次比較少的比較少見對不對是比較少見的對嗎對好那我想就是說在台大在這個案件上面其實已經出現了嚴重的制度失靈跟行政怠惰那我希望這是一個提醒也要請一個懇求我們的教育部應該好好審視我們現在的校園性平法規是不是應該要有一些地方來做檢討避免有類似的情況再度發生可以嗎"},{"start":18023.098,"end":18050.667,"text":"當然可以的好那再來另外一個問題是有關於特教生的問題就是說我看部長您先看一下您前方的這個表格這個是各地特殊教育他們去分類就是說從11年到113年特教生跟疑似生的一個數據的統計比例可是呢這張的問題在於說我們依據特教法或是特教學生及幼兒鑑定辦法其實沒有所謂的疑似生的一個規範"},{"start":18051.787,"end":18069.142,"text":"而是我們的縣市政府卻有統計疑似身的規範可是呢在我們現行的法規我們對於疑似身是沒有辦法給予相關的支持和補助所以為什麼會有這樣子的疑似身這樣子的身份又代表什麼樣子的意義我們能實際上給他什麼樣的支持呢"},{"start":18071.872,"end":18083.343,"text":"好 我們請蘇亮謝謝韋恩 疑似生他有至少兩個情況第一個 他在過程中或是他原來鑑定沒有過等等但是都給予補助"},{"start":18084.747,"end":18111.434,"text":"我們現在疑似生也都有給予輔助嗎那到底要分特教生跟疑似生的意義到底差別在哪裡疑似生因為他有機會而且很有機會只是在相關的新品或相關的收集資訊上還要比較完善一點但是他看起來其實很多都是需要照顧所以在政府不管中央地方都有給予協助如果有個案我們可以馬上來就文的這個說明來處理"},{"start":18112.554,"end":18140.023,"text":"今天讨论到不是因为个案的问题没问题就应该是说我们现在这种鉴定疑似生的做法对所以我第二个要跟委员报告您看到的那个将近有十一分之一或十分之一这一个我们现在的策略是既然都照顾我们希望县市政府其实能够加快让他变成真正可以直接就叫做特教的需求的孩子在那个疑似生那个阶段不要太久"},{"start":18140.843,"end":18152.43,"text":"不要太久所以盡量把它完整的把它去可以送到是特教生這一邊來那這一個鑑定的相關的規範或是因為它涉及到專業是不是容我們會後把各縣市的情況整理給委員我們的策略也跟委員做個報告"},{"start":18160.195,"end":18177.023,"text":"因為我認為一四升其實並沒有得到相對應的足夠的資源我覺得這還是在各縣市上面存在資源上面的落差同時我也看到台北市在一四升的比例數量其實都是比其他縣市要來得更高我覺得這是一個蠻大的問題"},{"start":18178.183,"end":18207.25,"text":"就變成說像我之前也處理了一些個案就是這些孩子就是永遠都沒有辦法被判定是特殊生可是在醫學判鑑定上面他就是特殊生可是當地的縣市教育局就是不願意給他這樣子的資格所以我不認為一次生的確有得到相對應的補助但這件事情呢我認為是非常重要因為他實際的影響到這個學生他得到的支持以及他可能會造成課間上面老師能不能給予他足夠的正確的支持"},{"start":18207.87,"end":18223.833,"text":"所以除了這個孩子外學生還有其他的學生以及這個老師其實都會因疑似生沒有辦法得到足夠的支持這一個東西我覺得是要徹底的檢討特別還有各縣市對於疑似生的規範也是非常的不一致"},{"start":18224.878,"end":18249.087,"text":"好 所以我想就是這個部分呢等到你們收集好各縣市的資料的時候我們要一起來重新的檢討因為這也是學校的老師跟我反映的問題確實台北市的遺失生有異常的一個多我想這個會後我們來跟台北市跟這個湯局長我們來了解一下到底發生什麼事"},{"start":18250.027,"end":18273.973,"text":"對 因為你看它跟新北市相比因為它是在評估在鑑定在各方面裡面流程跟為什麼就比例上來講為什麼它有異常的高沒錯啊它光是新北市都是好幾倍了啦好不好所以我想這個部分人家麻煩部長關心啦畢竟每個都是我們很重要的孩子那對於這個東西我們有機會在半年內有一個延長的方向嗎可以可以喔好 謝謝"},{"start":18275.401,"end":18293.418,"text":"好謝謝張雅玲委員的質詢請部長回座下一位何新淳委員何新淳委員何新淳委員不在林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員不在下一位請洪孟凱委員上台詢答主席謝謝好主席謝謝麻煩請鄭部長好有請鄭部長"},{"start":18304.465,"end":18322.332,"text":"好 部長我們教育文化委員會同仁大家辛苦本來本席是真的想說中午就趕快但是因為有個案件我真的還是過意不去一定要過來反應跟希望能夠聽到部長正面的答案就是最近發生這個女國中生的一個霸凌事件"},{"start":18322.992,"end":18341.891,"text":"那霸凌的一個影片也在崔上面有在轉傳那當然這個絕對不要傳是因為這可能會造成當事人多次傷害但本席想要講的是說嚴重的霸凌現在的現行制度雖然我們過去已經討論非常久但還是實際有那就變成是說霸凌者他到底有沒有負起應有的責任"},{"start":18343.035,"end":18361.926,"text":"而讓他我們已經有做很多的方向不管是社會安全網不管是校園的一個教導指導等等但是還是有人霸凌那霸凌能不能也要要求霸凌者負起相對應的責任我先請教因為現行的法律制度來講的話他可能會變成是校園裡面調查"},{"start":18364.908,"end":18379.418,"text":"輔導、記點、轉班或是轉校但是他當轉校之後後續他要升學什麼的還是如果他之後變洗白了還是升學那有看到韓國的例子其實韓國過去霸凌也非常嚴重"},{"start":18380.612,"end":18409.853,"text":"部長你應該也理解嘛韓國他們在2025年2026年開始有列入校園霸凌的扣分制度就是把它變成是在升學時候的一個評分標準那當然一定也會有人有反對意見因為講是說這樣子會不會讓孩童造成是說他犯一次過沒有辦法去這個改過向上改過自新但是我們現在要討論的地方這也是如果他已經非常離譜的已經造成人身傷害"},{"start":18410.513,"end":18438.275,"text":"严重霸凌或是重复反复霸凌的情况我们是不是应该也要让霸凌者负起相对应的责任我完全同意委员的看法当这个防护造成人身的伤害他必须要付出法律的责任我觉得这是肯定的但付出法律的责任的同时相对应的因为好譬如说部长就如同现在这一个案件他是女国中生被学姐逼下跪呼巴掌"},{"start":18439.704,"end":18460.672,"text":"那這有人身傷害 會有傷害罪但可能他的傷害罪相對性而且還要走司法程序等等但如果說這一個事件譬如說過了之後沒有再往上或是說他霸凌沒有去譬如說校內寄過而已那他沒有法律上責任的時候那他還是一樣構成霸凌啊"},{"start":18461.786,"end":18469.951,"text":"那他有沒有對於應該對於這部分他升學的地方有要有所要有記錄或是要有所取捨"},{"start":18471.541,"end":18491.872,"text":"部長這就是我們今天要談論的意思我想是不是把他納入他的升學的一些扣分或者在許多的這些他可享用的資源上的一些暫停或者隔離我想這個我們確實是可以來研究啦是因為現在我們就看到韓國已經在做了"},{"start":18492.892,"end":18512.673,"text":"韓國甚至他們從2025年去年的時候就是因為有高官的兒子他在校園做霸凌事件但到最後他還可以考上一個頂尖大學造成全國嘩然而且因為我們現在即便是我們的制度已經有所謂的校內的評議委員會但是社會有些時候也是一個縮影"},{"start":18513.894,"end":18538.255,"text":"但霸凌者他會霸凌他可能自視家庭的背景不錯所以如果說真的成立評議委員會的時候也許他的家長也會有互相的勢力角力啊也造成說沒有辦法還原公道也因此我們這邊才想是說既然韓國以及其他國家有針對校園霸凌的部分能夠用更積極的態度去做處理那我們台灣能不能來做一個參考"},{"start":18539.116,"end":18560.046,"text":"所以感謝剛剛部長您有講到是說正面的回憶是可以研議那我們是不是可以針對這個部分請教育部參考韓國現在的一個做法甚至來了解是說他們用這樣的做法之後有沒有什麼後遺症以及有沒有減少霸凌的案件那什麼時候可以給我們本席一個書面的一個報告"},{"start":18561.485,"end":18576.023,"text":"我们是因为这里边收集国外的资料我们跟学者专家希望能够有一个更深入的一些讨论是两个月两个月好本席等你两个月但本席希望看到的是如果说确实有效"},{"start":18576.784,"end":18595.951,"text":"那我们应该可以往这个方向来推动因为这可能不只是只是立法或修法而是牵扯到更要不要家长也负年代责任是如果真正的一个青少年在学校犯下了一个非常严重的一个伤害的一个我想家长也不能这一个置身事外"},{"start":18596.411,"end":18621.992,"text":"自身之外或是我想這個我們比較系統性的是 謝謝部長您提到一個重點因為這也是本席要講是說因為很多人會講說邵氏法的部分我也有提案但是邵氏法已經變成是刑案的部分你的前科要做突銷與否這個是一塊但本席現在講到的是更普遍的霸凌現象你說孤立人潑人家水然後叫人家下跪甚至罰站唱國歌"},{"start":18623.53,"end":18641.173,"text":"我說這些都是我們過去在國中高中升學的時候有聽過或是有看到的霸凌狀況那既然如此這一些他又沒有到涉及刑案可是他真的是如果反覆不要拉扁甚至是說他在這個學校完了之後可以轉學到另外一個學校"},{"start":18641.613,"end":18662.284,"text":"他就重新醒白 重新再一次然後沒有任何記錄然後到最後變成是他學校所有的機制都是希望能夠讓學生知過能改而且往好的方向走我想這個不管任何一個機制任何一個辦法任何一個制度都是這樣的一個本質教育的本質當然是希望讓大家"},{"start":18663.884,"end":18671.828,"text":"但是如果說真的已經一而再再而三也應當讓霸凌者負起相對應的責任嗎因為說實在那個影片我們任何人都於心不忍再去看"},{"start":18679.031,"end":18697.201,"text":"那既然但是我們不能因為我們沒有看而當這個影片沒發生它確實有發生也因此我們才會說希望能夠更積極的態度那兩個月兩個月之後我看到教育部的報告我也會再進一步的針對這個部分來跟教育部做研究討論好嗎謝謝謝謝部長謝謝洪文凱委員的質詢請部長回座"},{"start":18701.897,"end":18709.405,"text":"下一位徐富贵委员徐富贵委员徐富贵委员不在有请林倩琪委员上台询答"},{"start":18719.572,"end":18738.522,"text":"謝謝我們的主席吳釗瑋我請我們部長再次有請鄭部長謝謝鄭部長 部長 輔會同仁 大家好本期長期在關心有關於偏鄉跟原鄉的一個教育環境最主要是因為這些地方資源不足 實質不穩"},{"start":18739.702,"end":18755.204,"text":"的結構性問題也是長期存在但是今天本席要針對一個個案來做一些關心也就是跟本席脈絡也很親的澎湖縣這是離島的一個問題我想跟偏鄉原鄉都有一些相同的處境"},{"start":18756.045,"end":18773.275,"text":"那麼大池國小有一個家長的集體陳情案件那全校大概14名學生已經很少了只有近半以上也不是近半應該多於一半以上的大概有九位家長的連署來向這個教育相關單位去反映"},{"start":18774.015,"end":18786.865,"text":"教學跟行政的問題那也提出了二十幾頁的這個具體事證那反映的內容包括課程長期的落後然後期末也倉促趕課然後最重要的是也常常存在的一個教學還沒有完成就進行評量那考試 那考試的狀況呢又自行翻書"},{"start":18792.97,"end":18820.652,"text":"那這樣子的狀況對教長來講很難以想像那這些問題都很長期的累積那在教學行政跟校務的層面呢那校長也沒有辦法督導那整個入班的一個官課跟教學輔導的機制沒有好好發揮功能感覺像學校好像失去了一些治理所以多次向縣府的教育處反映也沒有具體的改善那麼所以在這個部分本席請教"},{"start":18821.993,"end":18842.931,"text":"第一個部分是如果對於家常多次具體陳情也沒有辦法改善的案件教育部會不會多做一些了解然後去做處理然後第二個部分是像偏鄉這類小學校的這個案件那當地主管機關如果沒有能夠有效的處理的時候教育部是不是有主動能夠介入跟督導的一個機制還是完全仰賴地方的一個治理"},{"start":18843.772,"end":18867.817,"text":"那第二個部分是那目前對於教師品質跟這個校務運作的監督有沒有一個跨縣跨縣市一致的標準呢那會不會因為地方的差異讓偏鄉的學生或離島的學生的權益就被打折那這個部分是不是請部長先回應謝謝委員這個提醒我們這個大城大慈國小我想我們在下班之前我們一定會了解然後必要的時候我們就會"},{"start":18869.038,"end":18876.244,"text":"這個國教署會專人到學校裡面去介入實地的一個勘察最主要主動關心那離島整個資源狀況也跟原鄉很接近對 可能做一個關心好不好"},{"start":18887.054,"end":18908.433,"text":"那麼最重要就是說那個中央跟地方這有效的一個補位的救濟機制可能請那個部裡面要針對這些可能最沒有資源最需要保障的學生去做一個處理讓教育的一個公平性能夠被落實那接下來本席也在談一個長期以來大家都在講但是也是這個通面性的一個問題也就是學習歷程檔案的一個"},{"start":18911.896,"end":18927.703,"text":"實際成效啦那本席進入立法院之後其實這個議題常在談那幾年來都會再又整理一次我想他的初衷最重要是希望能夠憑良多元化但是食物的運作到底有沒有在符合他的初衷那一段時間都會有人拿出來討論"},{"start":18928.743,"end":18948.393,"text":"那麼你們的國教所的統計啦108的課綱第一屆到第三屆的高中畢業生那整個的學系成果沒有提交的比例從第一屆的18.31%達到了第三屆的30.17%那這個沒有提交比例的增加那是不是制度的一個運作有一些明顯的落差"},{"start":18949.553,"end":18976.405,"text":"那這邊我們來談一下其實很多人也提到學習歷程在實務上漸漸變成了一個資源的競爭者那有資源的學生就參加各種營隊製作精美的檔案然後外部還可以進行一些內容的包裝但是實際這個資源比較少的學生比如說像本席關注的偏鄉原鄉甚至剛才所說的離島的這個個案往往沒有辦法投入相同的時間跟成本那這個其實是"},{"start":18977.465,"end":18999.891,"text":"這樣子的本來是希望多元化的初衷就擴大了城鄉的一個差距跟社會階級的落差然後最後本期要提醒AI時代的來臨那深層式的AI也會在學習歷程檔案在真實性上跟可驗證性上面臨挑戰那包括部裡面或者是相關單位要來檢測的話呢也是有很大的一個問題所以"},{"start":19001.391,"end":19024.566,"text":"那目前大學的入學主要還是以學測成績作為門檻那學習歷程本來應該是輔助的資料那是不是在這個部分整個升學體制當中的定位你們要不要再做一個比較確切的一個回應那最重要就是說制度如果沒有辦法減輕壓力就增加了一些沒有必要的負擔又擴大了不平等那是不是應該要檢討啦"},{"start":19026.687,"end":19049.364,"text":"我們其實長期以來有很多檢討的聲音但是這個問題還是存在這個一個通案性的問題本席在這邊就今天的質詢也在提出一些這個問題是不是部長這邊可以很快的簡單的一個回饋我們學習歷程好像有它一定的價值但是怎麼樣與時俱進我們現在請大考中心跟高中端"},{"start":19050.245,"end":19070.137,"text":"在眼裡看有怎麼樣能夠以實際性包含剛才委員所提的雖然我們的老師大學老師很多人他是很認真在看學生的學習歷程檔案但是AI的一個深層式的AI會不會造成許多更新的一些挑戰我想我們會"},{"start":19071.887,"end":19088.36,"text":"願意正視這個問題來做討論來看怎麼樣最重要的就是說不要再增加大家太多的負擔然後做的事情如果沒有效度那原本的初衷又達不到然後資源的落差越來越大然後成像差異又更明顯的話"},{"start":19089.201,"end":19113.823,"text":"我想真的要好好的檢討一下初中然後跟實際的一個執行的狀況跟我們未來即將面臨的挑戰那這個部分 部裡面真的要很審慎的做一些檢討跟討論 好不好那如果有相關的這個進度是不是可以把一些階段性的報告送給本席的一個研究室 好嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝林倩琪委員的質詢請部長回座"},{"start":19114.761,"end":19119.473,"text":"下一位苏清泉委员苏清泉委员苏清泉委员不在"},{"start":19120.526,"end":19149.48,"text":"卢宪一委员卢宪一委员卢宪一委员不在今天登记质询的委员均已发言完毕询答结束另外有卢宪一万美玲徐富贵三位委员提出书面质询列入公报记录那因为等一下要做教师法第25条的排审为利于讨论准备协商的场地也让大家先用餐我们休息到下午三点"},{"start":19150.1,"end":19158.219,"text":"那跟审查法案无关的列席机关代表可以先行离席现在休息谢谢"},{"start":19191.845,"end":19191.866,"text":"喽"},{"start":19223.78,"end":19223.885,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":19255.486,"end":19255.913,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":19342.985,"end":19343.005,"text":"嗯"},{"start":19388.445,"end":19388.688,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":23204.06,"end":23221.733,"text":"現在繼續開會審查教師法第25條及第53條相關修正草案請議事人員宣讀條文內容並進行討論與協商討論時如果有新增修正動議請一併宣讀討論時請參閱教育部提供的題會討論版本書面資料並列入公報記錄"},{"start":23234.075,"end":23250.105,"text":"請宣讀教師法委員吳麗華等提案第25條第二項及第三項默劇句末均爭定"},{"start":23250.546,"end":23269.577,"text":"及學術研究佳績其餘未修正委員馬文君等提案第25條第二項及第三項莫具巨莫均爭議及佳績其餘未修正委員葉言之等委員羅志強等委員徐曉新等提案第25條軍統委員馬文君等提案"},{"start":23276.295,"end":23291.21,"text":"委員郭玉琴等提案第25條同委員吳麗華等提案委員林倩琴等提案第25條第二項第二項莫具巨莫均徵定加持並恢復考核獎項"},{"start":23292.372,"end":23312.483,"text":"主席宣告現在進行教師法第25條及第53條條文修正草案主條審查審查時請參照條文對照表及提案關係文書第25條條文修正有委員武麗華等17人共14個提案以及委員陳秀寶等修正動議那"},{"start":23322.785,"end":23324.654,"text":"是不是請委員表示意見來 請秀寶委員"},{"start":23328.115,"end":23354.457,"text":"謝謝主席在第25條這個部分本席提的是修正動議那我想其實在今天早上很多委員的發言對這一條其實大家都是認同的就考量教師在受停聘的期間他是非自願停職工作那所以這個停聘期間結束後如果並沒有被解聘或是終局停聘這個處分代表教師他並沒有從事相關不法行為所以停聘期間的薪水本來就應該要補發"},{"start":23356.118,"end":23383.466,"text":"那先行的條文規定說只補發本薪的部分是有點不合理包括學術研究加給的部分所以本席提修正動議是來增加補發的薪資要加進學術研究加給的部分來保障教師的權益以上好 謝謝秀寶委員的意見我們是不是先請所有委員第一輪發言"},{"start":23385.497,"end":23394.473,"text":"齁 好不好 可以齁好 那接下來我們請林怡瑾委員接下來蔡春丑委員然後郭鈺晴委員"},{"start":23395.711,"end":23418.769,"text":"好 謝謝這個這案本席在上個會期初第一次質詢教育部的時候就有提過主要是還是校事會議爛訴的狀況太多那很多小案大辦的這個問題那就在這個期間那老師被停聘 被調查那有些樣態就是這個期間有發給辦述的本心有的是全部都沒有發"},{"start":23419.85,"end":23440.03,"text":"那等這個未受這個解聘或終局停聘的處分那回復聘任才補發這個停聘期間的薪資那主要是補發薪資的部分是不是要包含加給那目前只發本薪也就是所謂年工薪那加給跟獎金都沒有發可是老師的薪水結構"},{"start":23440.811,"end":23452.998,"text":"跟一般的工人員跟我們的都不一樣因為他其實本心只佔了其中的一部分那絕大部分的差不多四五成是所謂的研究"},{"start":23454.911,"end":23472.893,"text":"絕數研究佳績那所以你如果說只給他本分那上面就給他一半薪水而已嘛他就已經沒事了所以我說這實在是很不公平所以與這些薪資結構的不同所以大家忽略這一點所以應該是就是說"},{"start":23474.255,"end":23503.033,"text":"所以我的草案是寫要補發家籍當然家籍現在包括學術研究家籍啊這個地域家籍啊植物家籍等等那有些版本是只有強調學術研究家籍那我覺得這個當然可以再細討論那無論如何啦學術研究家籍是最重要因為它占比太大四五成所以是不是無論如何把這個學術研究家籍一定要加進去那至於其他的家籍"},{"start":23504.074,"end":23507.657,"text":"主席 大家好那台灣民眾黨呢提案的也是一樣我們接著再回聘回來的老師呢我們應該除了"},{"start":23531.857,"end":23553.152,"text":"之前是只有供奉嘛只有就是能供奉那我們這裡我們主張應該要把學術研究會還有地域家級都要納入就是要補償給回任的老師那這裡呢在這個地域家級在這裡我做一個說明"},{"start":23557.735,"end":23574.671,"text":"這個就是屬於偏遠的 偏遠地區的教師那現在目前呢 我們偏鄉的一個老師呢本來就是教師方 有很多人也不願意到偏鄉去那 好不容易有人願意到偏鄉去了然後 再來就是說"},{"start":23577.313,"end":23592.882,"text":"目前呢根據統計目前有這樣的一個問題大概有26個人那26個人期間呢有幾位是在偏鄉也沒有多少人那我們要想說這些偏鄉的他本身在一個"},{"start":23593.823,"end":23616.553,"text":"很多人不願意去的地方第二他說這樣的一個調查對他本身就是一種尊嚴的傷害那既然已經調查完了他是沒有這回事是受冤枉的那他也在偏鄉在調查的期間我相信他也一定住在那個地方等嘛因為要調查嘛所以我覺得第一"},{"start":23617.073,"end":23617.653,"text":"我是覺得這沒有多少錢啊"},{"start":23633.099,"end":23648.371,"text":"這個經費沒有多少錢了因為26個人然後再扣掉那個噴箱也沒有多少人那既然說自尊就受傷了何必去計價這幾千塊而且也沒有多少人所以這個是我的建議"},{"start":23649.551,"end":23674.811,"text":"好 非常謝謝蔡村崇委員所表示的意見那接下來請郭玉琴委員那郭玉琴委員發言完之後我們請教育部來做回應好 那我要強調一下這個學術研究家其實跟本心是一樣的啦如果說老師他因為資歷就是固定的資歷這個薪資其實他是為了要維持他原本生活的一個本來重要的一個核心啦"},{"start":23675.231,"end":23689.187,"text":"那如果說是因為他非自願或者是不可規則於自己的一個室友被停聘那最後獲得這個清白要復職這個也是我們一直不斷強調部長之前也強調就是要恢復這個名譽的部分"},{"start":23690.128,"end":23719.888,"text":"我想如果只發揮這個本心其實比較不符合這個受僱人他們的這個請求報酬的一個精神比較難以去維持他們原本的可能家庭的照顧的一些基本的一個費用那尤其是近幾年這個物價又大幅增長的一個狀況之下所以我想這個部分就是學術研究家級的部分那我把它寫進去的這個條文當中也是主要因為這個原因好 以上"},{"start":23721.309,"end":23731.034,"text":"好以上有四位提案委員都有表示意見現在我們就是請教育部是不是鄭部長回覆還是好請人事處處長請謝謝委員我們教育部這邊當然就是剛剛委員已經說明過就是"},{"start":23748.294,"end":23764.917,"text":"原先的規定是本薪那現在要把學術研究家級加進來那我們是站在一個就是給老師每個月經常性的一個固定薪資的一個概念就是全新的一個概念在看待這樣子的一個條文"},{"start":23765.518,"end":23780.355,"text":"那如果按照這樣子每個月固定薪的一個結構應該是本薪加學術研究加給那所以我們建議的文字是就是後面加學術研究加給那另外剛剛有問"},{"start":23780.455,"end":23804.323,"text":"委員也提到就是說家籍另外可能有職務家籍或者是地域家籍那這個都是因為身份上他可能有兼主管職務或者是他服務在偏鄉所給予的另外其他的家籍跟我們剛剛說明的就是每個月老師固定薪資的一個經常性給予"},{"start":23805.683,"end":23828.578,"text":"本質上還是有一些些的不太一樣所以我們教育部這邊建議的一個條文是本新加學術研究加級上報告謝謝處長的回應那教育部這邊在螢幕上有打出他們的題會版本那是不是請各位委員我們就依照教育部提供的版本來討論可以嗎那我先念一下"},{"start":23834.902,"end":23862.574,"text":"一第十八條第一項或第二十一條第二款第三款停聘之教師停聘期間不發給待遇一第二十一條第一款第二十二條第一項第二十三條第六項停聘之教師於停聘期間不發給待遇停聘是由消滅後未受解聘或終局停聘處分並回復聘任者補發期停聘期間全數本薪瓜湖年工薪及增加"},{"start":23863.314,"end":23883.827,"text":"文字及學術研究家及依第22條第二項停聘之教師於停聘期間發給半數本薪瓜湖年工薪增加文字及學術研究家及調查後未受解聘或終局停聘處分並回復聘任者補發期停聘期間好這邊"},{"start":23886.369,"end":23908.368,"text":"未發之本薪 未發之本薪 瓜湖年功薪及學術研究家級那看起來早上大家的質詢都蠻有共識就是剛才幾位委員的發言也大概往這個方向那如果大家同意同意嗎才遵守委員"},{"start":23916.913,"end":23933.142,"text":"我個人還是一樣對這個地域加緊我還是要提出看法為什麼其實早上我有講我們的校園其實就是期貨變貨已經為什麼會有這些問題應該就是校士會議惹的禍那那個第一"},{"start":23944.272,"end":23956.221,"text":"我覺得啦我覺得第一這個薪水他本來就已經發放了他本來他雖然沒有上班但是這些薪水還是放在學校"},{"start":23957.406,"end":23984.284,"text":"那換在學校的話 恢復了以後這個薪水還是換在學校的基金裡面 你就還給他而已嘛所以我覺得 而且呢 在偏鄉他本來就是 他也在那邊住駕 也已經住在那邊等候檢查嘛所以既然也沒有增加 那本來這個薪水也都在學校裡面那為何呢 我們對他的傷害也很大"},{"start":23984.744,"end":24013.944,"text":"他的一個尊嚴的受損難道就只有這幾千塊或者是說把這一個誰是研究會的這個錢給他之後就能夠彌補他的傷害嗎我覺得這個是需要大家再討論一下這是我個人我覺得應該要我認為我要堅持的地方好那蔡村首委員這邊有特別提到他希望把這個地域家籍放回去即便沒有上班"},{"start":24015.224,"end":24021.906,"text":"就是還是希望把地域加級加回去那這個部分是不是還是請教育部人事處長來請謝謝委員剛剛的那個說明那我這邊還是要強調一下就是這個條文其實是適用每一個教師那剛剛委員所提到的地域加級這個部分其實是"},{"start":24041.77,"end":24056.296,"text":"有在偏鄉或者是離島服務的教師才會發給並不是所有的老師他的薪資必然的有這樣子必然有的是本薪加學術研究債這是每一位老師都"},{"start":24057.156,"end":24082.682,"text":"都有的那第一家級跟剛剛也有提到的主管資助家級都是一樣的性質所以在這個條文裡面我們才會去講說你被冤枉後來復職的話應該是去回復他這兩項的一個薪資結構所以我們建議還是維持學術研究家級就可以了大概是這樣"},{"start":24085.248,"end":24105.324,"text":"那個意思就是說因為我們還有其他的教師待遇條例考核辦法等等有其他的法令那如果說在這個地方把它寫進這個文字它就會破壞那個就是其一性的部分因為這種特殊的部分有在其他的法條裡面規定"},{"start":24112.594,"end":24123.579,"text":"那其他委員有沒有什麼意見那李怡瑾委員先等蔡春嫂委員來請蔡春嫂委員"},{"start":24135.586,"end":24146.908,"text":"又表達了啦我是覺得應該是因為你有增加啊你這些薪水本來就放在學校的基金裡面啦你也沒有增加然後他"},{"start":24148.816,"end":24175.641,"text":"我是覺得我們要鼓勵鼓勵就是說有人願意到偏鄉去那我們這些老師本來就是不容易然後呢我個人是這樣子啦我是覺得希望啦我希望能夠把這個偏鄉我講的也沒有幾個人啊然後呢這也是特殊對象啊還是可以考慮看看有 理解因為真的是名譽"},{"start":24176.761,"end":24193.818,"text":"無法用金錢回復啦那如果可以的話當然是很好我們只是怕那個體力上文字不知道會不會跟其他的法令那這裡可以稍微修一下嘛他只是針對一些偏鄉的特殊的一些人而且也不多而且也不多"},{"start":24194.879,"end":24198.661,"text":"其實我某程度是非常支持就覺得說這個老師在這個調查的期間他是停聘的狀態嘛那既然這個還給他清白的時候其實他原本的薪水就應該給他可是現在卡在說"},{"start":24220.794,"end":24230.86,"text":"它停止的時候 其實一定有人代理的代理它的進步嘛所以它這個所謂的 這個地域家族就代理那個進步的 應該唸起來"},{"start":24233.094,"end":24246.683,"text":"所以我意思是說,如果這樣算是你就大不敷出了嘛,所以有很多行政系統來看,應該就是說,就是那個學術研究家族這是最大條的,這就是它的本分的一部分,以前說一般人的心碎就是,它的心碎就是本分跟學術研究家族,這條就叫心碎啦,"},{"start":24256.289,"end":24263.633,"text":"所以這套薪水都給他 都給他 剩下的就叫做頂替的概念頂替 你不吃 因為你紅天節 你不吃陶爐所以你不做工作 應該這樣說所以你應該不用去頂替 我是這樣想的所以我們的原意其實就是 原本的薪水 該領的薪水要給人家"},{"start":24282.121,"end":24307.151,"text":"所以我覺得如果可以的話大家有共識只差在這一咪咪啦這個好不容易我們也都凹到下午然後大家都那麼辛苦三次一次會而且這個學術研究加起這個是大家如果有共識這是最好的就真的幫了這些被調查的老師們所以再請蔡委員拜託啦"},{"start":24308.511,"end":24323.807,"text":"不過我在這邊也是要補充因為從校事會議被討論各個委員輪番上陣質詢然後不斷的要求給予全心那也很感謝部長在質詢台上總是說"},{"start":24324.688,"end":24344.039,"text":"他個人相當支持所以呢就啟動了這個修法也看到這麼多的委員都把版本提出來那如果我們可以順利通過接下來我們就要請司法委員會排教師待遇條例的修法因為這個兩個都要連動修所以如果這邊快那邊也"},{"start":24346.761,"end":24367.668,"text":"可以順利進行應該我們這個會期我們就可以完成處理這個三讀所以可以讓老師早一點可以如果有遇到這樣的狀況讓他們可以安心好那還有沒有其他意見好那謝謝各位委員順利達成共識我們是不是就照這個還沒有好來來"},{"start":24374.826,"end":24398.325,"text":"那個我當然謝謝那個前輩啦那我個人當然我也不要說我一直在阻擋這個但是我還是要強烈表達我個人的意願就是比較希望就是那個第一家級啦那如果說大家都要做一個協商最後的一個決定我當然尊重但是我提的不是最苛刻不是最那個還有人就是要全部都要都必須要補償"},{"start":24401.107,"end":24419.805,"text":"那剛剛我們前輩講的就是說他是偏鄉但是我想這個是短期的一個代理有時候也就是在地人來兼的那這個偏鄉的老師也許是外地進來的所以我是覺得如果以情理來講我這樣提出也沒有什麼"},{"start":24420.265,"end":24427.787,"text":"什麼苛刻啦我們純粹是為老師嘛沒有苛刻尊嚴都被受傷了這麼嚴重了補了那個一點點也補償不了啦那當然啦我們還是尊重教育部來做一個協商那是我個人的意見是比較希望這樣子能夠對第一家級能夠考慮一下"},{"start":24442.492,"end":24462.487,"text":"那個 遵守委員你不用擔心你絕對沒有苛刻因為其實如果可以的話大家都覺得應該要全部回覆只是因為在法令上可能有一些沒有辦法這樣處理謝謝你的體諒也謝謝大家達成共識那我們第25條就修正通過好嗎好 謝謝那下一個53條比較單純因為好像只有"},{"start":24472.114,"end":24500.624,"text":"只有民眾黨黨團有那個齁那是不是請大家看一下第53條那我們看一下易經一目好 易經一目第53條本法施行日期由行政院定之那增加的這個修正文字是本法修正條文字公佈日施行好 請各委員發表意見"},{"start":24506.087,"end":24526.842,"text":"提案委員說明我們這個通過之後就可以試用這樣子好 那人事處教育部同意嗎好 那我們第53條照台灣民眾黨黨團提案通過好 三思一次會"},{"start":24539.605,"end":24553.535,"text":"今天的審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響條文議前提下文字 條字及標點符號為統一體力授權議事人員整理列入記錄"},{"start":24555.84,"end":24580.249,"text":"關於本次會議作如下決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面資料或相關資料均列入記錄刊登公報對於委員諮詢時要求提供的相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆教師法第25條及第53條相關修正草案已全部審查完畢並按擬具審查報告提請院會公決"},{"start":24584.891,"end":24587.033,"text":"請問是否需交黨團協商不用交友黨 呃不報告委員會今日議程 有剛剛說不需 不用"},{"start":24599.393,"end":24621.439,"text":"我要採釋喔好 不需交由黨團協商主席一名議員會討論時由五兆級委員立華補充說明報告委員會今日議程處理完畢現在散會大家辛苦了有效力 有效力是不是因為初委員會我們是不是合照來 合照"},{"start":24625.213,"end":24632.363,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":24638.951,"end":24645.094,"text":"來大家先看這台先等一下先等一下大家先看這台好大家看這台好大家看這台"},{"start":24670.498,"end":24675.002,"text":"好 大家看我這一台還有沒有補啊 這一台好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"17320","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17320","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3eabbd6dedb4516fb0f8c1248ad583d61267a9d5466ed3f8140a617719806c1924b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況（含上會期臨時提案辦理情形），並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-04-01","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-04-01T08:38:30+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:57:00+08:00","duration":8310,"影片長度":"02:18:30","委員發言時間":"08:38:30 - 10:57:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-5-15-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1328.7684687500002,"end":1332.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1333.6622187500002,"end":1336.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1337.83034375,"end":1340.2603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1340.6990937500002,"end":1343.9222187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1345.12034375,"end":1354.1822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1354.3678437500002,"end":1357.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1358.2490937500002,"end":1361.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1362.1809687500001,"end":1364.8640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1365.06659375,"end":1367.5472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1367.78346875,"end":1368.5765937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1369.18409375,"end":1370.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1370.5172187500002,"end":1373.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1374.63471875,"end":1381.6378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1381.8740937500002,"end":1383.9834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1384.0340937500002,"end":1394.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1394.2940937500002,"end":1394.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1394.8509687500002,"end":1398.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1399.0359687500002,"end":1404.8240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1405.4822187500001,"end":1408.7390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1408.9922187500001,"end":1417.0753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1417.54784375,"end":1417.7840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1417.9359687500003,"end":1430.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1431.0140937500003,"end":1434.0684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1434.3722187500002,"end":1438.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1434.7265937500001,"end":1434.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1439.18159375,"end":1443.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1443.7884687500002,"end":1448.2772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1448.4290937500002,"end":1449.9815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1450.31909375,"end":1451.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1452.2090937500002,"end":1454.8584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1454.9765937500001,"end":1458.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1458.9253437500001,"end":1460.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1460.84909375,"end":1461.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1461.7265937500001,"end":1464.7134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1464.8822187500002,"end":1465.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1465.4222187500002,"end":1470.0628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1470.3665937500002,"end":1472.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1473.0159687500002,"end":1475.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1476.2390937500002,"end":1482.1790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1482.7022187500002,"end":1485.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1485.58784375,"end":1489.5028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1489.9247187500002,"end":1494.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1494.5822187500003,"end":1495.0040937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1495.7972187500002,"end":1500.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1500.4884687500003,"end":1501.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1501.8553437500002,"end":1512.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1512.58784375,"end":1513.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1513.46534375,"end":1518.6290937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1518.9834687500002,"end":1519.5572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1519.7090937500002,"end":1525.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1525.54784375,"end":1526.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1526.4253437500001,"end":1531.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1531.8422187500003,"end":1542.2203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1544.3128437500002,"end":1572.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1574.0128437500002,"end":1578.0459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1578.5015937500002,"end":1579.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1581.08346875,"end":1583.6990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1585.16721875,"end":1597.7559687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1598.4984687500003,"end":1602.5653437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1604.1347187500003,"end":1606.4634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1608.64034375,"end":1609.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1611.0703437500001,"end":1612.0997187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1613.1797187500001,"end":1614.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1615.1709687500002,"end":1623.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1626.08909375,"end":1626.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1628.0972187500001,"end":1634.7628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1637.76659375,"end":1639.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1640.9222187500002,"end":1641.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1643.80784375,"end":1644.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1645.6809687500001,"end":1651.0809687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1653.3422187500003,"end":1656.1603437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1657.86471875,"end":1661.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1662.80909375,"end":1668.2597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1668.3947187500003,"end":1670.8922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1673.9465937500001,"end":1674.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1675.4822187500001,"end":1677.0684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1677.3047187500001,"end":1680.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1688.96534375,"end":1692.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1692.76221875,"end":1696.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1697.4872187500002,"end":1699.8665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1700.4065937500002,"end":1701.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1702.2628437500002,"end":1706.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1707.0722187500003,"end":1709.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1709.6034687500003,"end":1711.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1712.2022187500002,"end":1715.5097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1715.9147187500002,"end":1719.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1720.1334687500002,"end":1723.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1723.8965937500002,"end":1725.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1726.1240937500002,"end":1730.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1731.8109687500003,"end":1737.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1737.9872187500002,"end":1739.9784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1740.41721875,"end":1743.0159687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1743.5390937500001,"end":1747.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1748.0447187500001,"end":1749.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1750.00221875,"end":1752.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1753.4784687500003,"end":1756.2628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1756.3472187500001,"end":1758.1865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1758.3215937500001,"end":1759.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1760.0259687500002,"end":1763.4009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1763.8228437500002,"end":1765.8140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1766.1178437500002,"end":1768.5309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1769.7290937500002,"end":1771.5684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1771.77096875,"end":1774.8422187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1775.3653437500002,"end":1778.0315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1778.40284375,"end":1781.1703437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1781.3897187500002,"end":1785.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1785.8278437500003,"end":1788.1903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1788.4603437500002,"end":1794.6197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1795.3284687500002,"end":1798.8722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1799.19284375,"end":1800.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1800.9984687500003,"end":1802.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1802.7703437500002,"end":1805.8753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1806.6178437500002,"end":1811.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1812.2203437500002,"end":1814.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1814.97096875,"end":1826.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1826.6990937500002,"end":1828.6734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1829.02784375,"end":1829.3484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1829.58471875,"end":1833.3309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1834.0565937500003,"end":1838.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1838.8153437500002,"end":1840.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1840.5197187500003,"end":1842.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1842.6290937500003,"end":1843.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1844.4009687500002,"end":1847.6747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1848.0628437500002,"end":1848.8222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1849.2947187500001,"end":1852.7372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1853.0072187500002,"end":1855.5722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1855.6734687500002,"end":1857.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1857.3440937500002,"end":1857.9515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1858.3228437500002,"end":1860.4659687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1861.07346875,"end":1862.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1862.5584687500002,"end":1865.6972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1866.84471875,"end":1868.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1868.54909375,"end":1876.0415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1876.7503437500002,"end":1879.2647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1879.50096875,"end":1884.2090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1884.3947187500003,"end":1885.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1886.1665937500002,"end":1886.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1887.11159375,"end":1888.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1888.5628437500002,"end":1895.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1896.8990937500002,"end":1899.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1899.7172187500003,"end":1903.5140937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1903.8684687500001,"end":1905.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1905.4715937500002,"end":1907.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1907.6147187500003,"end":1910.1459687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1910.29784375,"end":1915.1578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1916.1703437500003,"end":1920.6759687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1921.5028437500002,"end":1926.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1926.88596875,"end":1928.9278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1929.28221875,"end":1932.2015937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1932.5728437500002,"end":1933.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1933.6865937500002,"end":1934.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1934.8847187500003,"end":1936.5722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1937.0784687500002,"end":1939.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1939.55909375,"end":1946.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1946.8322187500003,"end":1948.3847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1948.97534375,"end":1949.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1949.7347187500002,"end":1953.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1953.76784375,"end":1957.3959687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1957.8515937500001,"end":1958.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1959.4715937500002,"end":1959.8934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1960.1128437500001,"end":1963.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1963.9434687500002,"end":1967.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1967.7909687500003,"end":1974.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1975.13159375,"end":1988.8340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1989.34034375,"end":1991.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1991.8378437500003,"end":1994.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1994.7234687500002,"end":1999.2628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1999.8028437500002,"end":2002.6547187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2003.0765937500003,"end":2003.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2003.7178437500002,"end":2013.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2013.7922187500003,"end":2016.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2017.1165937500002,"end":2019.2597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2019.7828437500002,"end":2021.8584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2022.53346875,"end":2029.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2029.5872187500001,"end":2032.2872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2032.7259687500002,"end":2034.4134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2034.7003437500002,"end":2035.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2035.8478437500003,"end":2042.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2045.0109687500003,"end":2046.4790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2047.3903437500003,"end":2052.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2057.05971875,"end":2057.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2059.11846875,"end":2059.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2061.2109687500006,"end":2061.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2062.39221875,"end":2068.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2069.05784375,"end":2070.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2071.5553437500002,"end":2079.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2080.2965937500003,"end":2080.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2081.19096875,"end":2097.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2097.44159375,"end":2108.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2108.5622187500003,"end":2110.8572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2111.24534375,"end":2120.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2121.3028437500006,"end":2134.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2134.95471875,"end":2171.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2171.77596875,"end":2179.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2180.2303437500004,"end":2207.8884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2207.9559687500005,"end":2234.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2235.09096875,"end":2242.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2243.0390937500006,"end":2254.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2254.26096875,"end":2273.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2273.8190937500003,"end":2288.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2289.5465937500003,"end":2336.2565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2336.6278437500005,"end":2341.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2342.1628437500003,"end":2375.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2375.54159375,"end":2389.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2390.30721875,"end":2408.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2408.7684687500005,"end":2410.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2410.84409375,"end":2413.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2413.9490937500004,"end":2416.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2417.29034375,"end":2456.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2456.6259687500005,"end":2461.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2462.38034375,"end":2467.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2467.2403437500006,"end":2474.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2474.80034375,"end":2476.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2476.9265937500004,"end":2477.4159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2482.93409375,"end":2489.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2489.80221875,"end":2506.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2508.1453437500004,"end":2508.3984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2508.78659375,"end":2509.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2510.23784375,"end":2515.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2527.8047187500006,"end":2529.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2541.22034375,"end":2542.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2542.53659375,"end":2551.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2551.5309687500003,"end":2551.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2551.58159375,"end":2553.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2553.99471875,"end":2561.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2560.42409375,"end":2564.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2564.03534375,"end":2564.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2565.41909375,"end":2565.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2565.43596875,"end":2569.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2570.05971875,"end":2571.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2571.7303437500004,"end":2575.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2573.7722187500003,"end":2593.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2594.2753437500005,"end":2604.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2604.3834687500002,"end":2604.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2605.15971875,"end":2616.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2616.83721875,"end":2619.3347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2619.62159375,"end":2620.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2620.88721875,"end":2623.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2623.6209687500004,"end":2636.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2636.14221875,"end":2647.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2638.06596875,"end":2638.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2647.87034375,"end":2656.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2656.0378437500003,"end":2656.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2656.08846875,"end":2656.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2656.62846875,"end":2656.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2656.6453437500004,"end":2659.5309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2659.9697187500005,"end":2663.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2663.5134687500004,"end":2673.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2674.22909375,"end":2677.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2675.07284375,"end":2675.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2677.9753437500003,"end":2705.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2695.0865937500002,"end":2695.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2704.6209687500004,"end":2705.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2705.2115937500002,"end":2707.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2707.7428437500002,"end":2749.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2732.2959687500006,"end":2732.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2735.5359687500004,"end":2735.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2735.82284375,"end":2735.8397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2750.21721875,"end":2759.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2765.9109687500004,"end":2765.9278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2765.9278437500006,"end":2766.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2767.04159375,"end":2768.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2768.59409375,"end":2769.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2770.4334687500004,"end":2779.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2780.3728437500004,"end":2806.1240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2806.4278437500006,"end":2808.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2808.6553437500006,"end":2813.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2814.0722187500005,"end":2829.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2829.78284375,"end":2829.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2830.23846875,"end":2831.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2831.94284375,"end":2832.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2832.90471875,"end":2834.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2835.5372187500006,"end":2837.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2835.8915937500005,"end":2836.1784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2837.6465937500006,"end":2841.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2842.23659375,"end":2843.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2843.5359687500004,"end":2862.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2862.4022187500004,"end":2871.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2872.39221875,"end":2872.8984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2873.28659375,"end":2880.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2875.7334687500006,"end":2876.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2881.4372187500003,"end":2894.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2894.26221875,"end":2894.7009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2894.7009687500004,"end":2900.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2900.65784375,"end":2912.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2912.63909375,"end":2913.9890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2914.51221875,"end":2919.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2919.4059687500003,"end":2920.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2920.60409375,"end":2935.3359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2926.30784375,"end":2927.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2935.5553437500002,"end":2936.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2936.93909375,"end":2952.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2953.02096875,"end":2953.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2953.39221875,"end":2957.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2957.5603437500004,"end":2958.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2958.1678437500004,"end":2961.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2961.44159375,"end":2965.5759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2965.7784687500007,"end":2968.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2968.37721875,"end":2976.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2976.57846875,"end":2982.3328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2982.4509687500004,"end":2982.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2983.2440937500005,"end":2984.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2984.0372187500006,"end":2984.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2985.3365937500002,"end":2988.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2989.06596875,"end":3000.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2991.9347187500007,"end":2992.3565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3000.67596875,"end":3008.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3004.7428437500002,"end":3004.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3004.77659375,"end":3005.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3008.2022187500006,"end":3009.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3009.61971875,"end":3018.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3009.78846875,"end":3009.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3014.37846875,"end":3014.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3018.6815937500005,"end":3025.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3025.8534687500005,"end":3028.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3028.3172187500004,"end":3032.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3032.5528437500006,"end":3032.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3032.62034375,"end":3033.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3034.18971875,"end":3035.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3036.01221875,"end":3041.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3041.80034375,"end":3042.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3042.1209687500004,"end":3044.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3045.36096875,"end":3046.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3046.6940937500003,"end":3051.5878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3051.55409375,"end":3051.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3051.7565937500003,"end":3061.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3061.8984687500006,"end":3064.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3064.58159375,"end":3064.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3064.9697187500005,"end":3066.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3066.2184687500003,"end":3066.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3066.2353437500005,"end":3066.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3066.50534375,"end":3067.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3072.4959687500004,"end":3076.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3077.45721875,"end":3077.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3084.4265937500004,"end":3089.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3094.6022187500002,"end":3095.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3095.59784375,"end":3095.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3096.0703437500006,"end":3097.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3096.9647187500004,"end":3097.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3097.7578437500006,"end":3098.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3098.6015937500006,"end":3106.7184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3106.95471875,"end":3114.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3115.3415937500004,"end":3143.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3143.57346875,"end":3186.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3186.6384687500004,"end":3223.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3212.1365937500004,"end":3212.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3212.2547187500004,"end":3212.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3223.62846875,"end":3241.6847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3242.42721875,"end":3263.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3265.0565937500005,"end":3286.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3287.1628437500003,"end":3289.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3289.37346875,"end":3302.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3303.3122187500003,"end":3305.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3305.89409375,"end":3307.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3307.32846875,"end":3307.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3308.47596875,"end":3312.7790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3313.5047187500004,"end":3315.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3316.1709687500006,"end":3339.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3339.4922187500006,"end":3395.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3395.1797187500006,"end":3440.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3438.5822187500007,"end":3439.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3440.0840937500006,"end":3443.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3443.0878437500005,"end":3445.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3445.93971875,"end":3452.5040937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3452.6222187500007,"end":3467.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3467.6072187500004,"end":3470.6447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3470.9990937500006,"end":3491.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3491.92409375,"end":3494.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3495.1472187500003,"end":3519.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3520.39221875,"end":3527.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3527.7665937500005,"end":3529.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3529.9265937500004,"end":3532.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3532.6434687500005,"end":3535.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3534.83721875,"end":3536.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3535.6134687500007,"end":3536.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3536.9297187500006,"end":3554.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3555.2390937500004,"end":3582.4415937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3582.45846875,"end":3582.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3582.7284687500005,"end":3585.3947187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3585.6140937500004,"end":3592.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3593.07284375,"end":3597.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3597.8990937500002,"end":3600.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3599.6709687500006,"end":3600.9197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3600.76784375,"end":3603.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3603.3497187500006,"end":3611.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3611.7872187500006,"end":3612.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3611.8378437500005,"end":3615.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3615.5840937500006,"end":3619.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3619.9715937500005,"end":3622.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3622.3340937500006,"end":3624.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3624.46034375,"end":3627.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3626.0465937500003,"end":3631.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3628.07159375,"end":3628.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3630.6365937500004,"end":3632.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3632.0709687500002,"end":3632.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3638.38221875,"end":3642.8709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3649.7390937500004,"end":3651.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3656.99534375,"end":3658.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3658.68284375,"end":3660.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3661.16346875,"end":3666.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3666.6815937500005,"end":3671.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3671.9972187500007,"end":3679.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3679.77659375,"end":3681.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3683.0165937500005,"end":3683.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3683.03346875,"end":3686.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3683.0672187500004,"end":3683.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3683.9784687500005,"end":3684.1134687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3684.1134687500007,"end":3684.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3684.8222187500005,"end":3685.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3685.27784375,"end":3685.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3686.94846875,"end":3693.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3694.1034687500005,"end":3696.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3696.5672187500004,"end":3700.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3700.51596875,"end":3709.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3709.2234687500004,"end":3715.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3710.3034687500003,"end":3710.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3715.7372187500005,"end":3724.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3720.8165937500007,"end":3721.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3723.53346875,"end":3724.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3724.09034375,"end":3724.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3724.49534375,"end":3724.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3724.63034375,"end":3724.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3724.9678437500006,"end":3725.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3725.33909375,"end":3728.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3728.91659375,"end":3732.9159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3733.3209687500002,"end":3734.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3735.1434687500005,"end":3736.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3736.5778437500003,"end":3747.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3747.52971875,"end":3748.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3748.5928437500006,"end":3749.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3749.70659375,"end":3750.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3750.6515937500008,"end":3752.9972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3753.0309687500003,"end":3753.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3753.0984687500004,"end":3757.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3757.3172187500004,"end":3763.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3764.33721875,"end":3766.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3766.6153437500006,"end":3773.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3773.68596875,"end":3773.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3773.73659375,"end":3774.7490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3773.75346875,"end":3794.0203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3794.5265937500008,"end":3796.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3796.0284687500007,"end":3805.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3805.1072187500004,"end":3818.5734687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3814.60784375,"end":3815.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3818.8434687500003,"end":3820.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3821.1047187500008,"end":3823.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3824.1759687500007,"end":3836.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3836.2753437500005,"end":3836.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3836.4103437500007,"end":3846.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3846.3834687500002,"end":3847.4972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3847.7840937500005,"end":3849.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3850.3659687500003,"end":3851.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3851.3953437500004,"end":3853.1672187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3853.48784375,"end":3854.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3855.59721875,"end":3859.4953437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3860.42346875,"end":3863.1065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3863.3428437500006,"end":3871.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3872.1853437500004,"end":3874.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3875.8809687500006,"end":3909.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3909.0234687500006,"end":3920.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3910.79534375,"end":3910.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3920.86971875,"end":3927.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3927.18096875,"end":3932.4459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3932.68221875,"end":3936.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3936.9347187500007,"end":3946.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3947.02596875,"end":3952.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3952.93221875,"end":3954.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3955.1259687500005,"end":3955.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3955.8515937500006,"end":3958.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3958.6190937500005,"end":3960.1378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3960.5597187500007,"end":3963.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3964.44096875,"end":3965.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3965.4872187500005,"end":3968.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3969.1490937500002,"end":3969.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3970.53284375,"end":3972.3722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3972.81096875,"end":3978.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3978.8690937500005,"end":3982.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3983.2059687500005,"end":3984.5897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3985.3153437500005,"end":3986.8847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3987.1378437500007,"end":3987.4753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3987.64409375,"end":3992.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3993.4997187500003,"end":3995.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3995.42346875,"end":4000.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4000.2665937500005,"end":4005.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4006.37534375,"end":4007.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4008.24846875,"end":4012.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4012.6190937500005,"end":4012.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4012.6697187500004,"end":4012.7540937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4012.7540937500007,"end":4016.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4017.1922187500004,"end":4033.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4034.4215937500003,"end":4037.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4038.5222187500003,"end":4043.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4044.2597187500005,"end":4047.6515937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4048.0059687500006,"end":4049.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4050.4528437500003,"end":4052.1065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4052.30909375,"end":4053.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4054.7390937500004,"end":4055.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4056.03846875,"end":4057.5909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4058.40096875,"end":4063.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4063.0753437500007,"end":4067.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4067.9353437500004,"end":4084.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4084.0340937500005,"end":4085.4178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4085.4178437500004,"end":4085.4347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4085.4347187500007,"end":4085.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4085.56971875,"end":4085.6203437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4085.6203437500008,"end":4088.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4088.82659375,"end":4092.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4093.11284375,"end":4094.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4095.45846875,"end":4099.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4096.167218750001,"end":4096.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4099.74471875,"end":4103.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4103.389718750001,"end":4104.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4105.09409375,"end":4106.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4106.96721875,"end":4108.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4109.144093749999,"end":4117.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4114.27409375,"end":4114.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4117.83471875,"end":4132.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4128.128468749999,"end":4128.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4128.53346875,"end":4128.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4128.66846875,"end":4128.972218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4131.2840937500005,"end":4135.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4132.060343749999,"end":4132.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4135.587218750001,"end":4143.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4143.40034375,"end":4143.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4144.37909375,"end":4148.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4149.07034375,"end":4164.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4165.253468749999,"end":4166.519093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4167.362843749999,"end":4170.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4170.839093750001,"end":4172.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4172.104718750001,"end":4172.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4172.796593749999,"end":4172.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4172.8134687500005,"end":4188.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4178.010968750001,"end":4178.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4188.4228437500005,"end":4189.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4189.1990937499995,"end":4190.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4190.380343750001,"end":4205.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4205.5340937500005,"end":4209.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4210.545968750001,"end":4212.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4212.739718750001,"end":4218.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4219.23659375,"end":4224.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4225.19346875,"end":4229.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4230.171593749999,"end":4232.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4232.7197187500005,"end":4237.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4238.30534375,"end":4239.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4239.67221875,"end":4240.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4241.190968749999,"end":4244.329718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4244.717843750001,"end":4249.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4249.45971875,"end":4251.079718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4251.61971875,"end":4256.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4256.36159375,"end":4258.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4260.3778437500005,"end":4264.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4265.001593749999,"end":4266.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4275.075968749999,"end":4276.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4281.52221875,"end":4282.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4283.243468750001,"end":4298.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4298.515343749999,"end":4312.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4312.437218749999,"end":4335.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4336.19721875,"end":4341.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4342.862843749999,"end":4353.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4353.24096875,"end":4353.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4353.561593750001,"end":4391.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4353.57846875,"end":4353.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4391.243468750001,"end":4391.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4391.715968750001,"end":4400.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4400.845343749999,"end":4406.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4406.903468750001,"end":4408.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4408.202843749999,"end":4430.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4430.190968749999,"end":4431.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4431.70971875,"end":4465.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4466.185343749999,"end":4472.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4472.64846875,"end":4478.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4479.314093749999,"end":4482.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4482.30096875,"end":4497.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4498.298468749999,"end":4505.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4504.37346875,"end":4504.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4504.42409375,"end":4505.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4505.50409375,"end":4508.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4505.520968750001,"end":4505.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4505.571593750001,"end":4505.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4508.946593750001,"end":4508.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4508.96346875,"end":4511.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4510.60034375,"end":4515.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4514.515343749999,"end":4514.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4515.07221875,"end":4515.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4515.10596875,"end":4515.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4515.15659375,"end":4515.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4515.173468749999,"end":4547.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4520.96159375,"end":4521.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4521.01221875,"end":4521.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4521.67034375,"end":4522.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4522.9022187499995,"end":4523.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4548.11346875,"end":4552.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4552.88909375,"end":4583.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4568.987843749999,"end":4570.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4583.97284375,"end":4583.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4583.989718750001,"end":4584.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4585.03596875,"end":4588.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4585.93034375,"end":4585.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4588.79909375,"end":4589.659718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4590.030968749999,"end":4591.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4591.41471875,"end":4604.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4605.99471875,"end":4627.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4627.071593750001,"end":4687.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4688.31096875,"end":4702.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4702.823468750001,"end":4716.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4716.9647187499995,"end":4723.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4723.46159375,"end":4724.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4723.495343750001,"end":4725.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4728.11909375,"end":4730.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4731.544718749999,"end":4735.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4737.2147187499995,"end":4738.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4742.007218750001,"end":4743.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4744.52159375,"end":4745.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4745.97284375,"end":4748.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4757.565968750001,"end":4759.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4760.26596875,"end":4761.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4765.17659375,"end":4766.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4768.46721875,"end":4782.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4783.09784375,"end":4790.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4791.24846875,"end":4798.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4798.6903437500005,"end":4804.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4804.579718749999,"end":4804.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4805.102843750001,"end":4847.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4847.897843750001,"end":4848.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4848.319718750001,"end":4869.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4869.734093749999,"end":4885.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4885.950968749999,"end":4886.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4886.474093750001,"end":4886.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4889.35971875,"end":4891.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4891.78971875,"end":4902.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4902.70784375,"end":4903.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4903.97346875,"end":4904.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4904.057843750001,"end":4904.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4904.429093750001,"end":4905.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4905.99846875,"end":4906.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4906.403468750001,"end":4910.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4906.47096875,"end":4909.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4910.942843750001,"end":4922.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4922.78909375,"end":4925.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4926.872843749999,"end":4927.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4927.56471875,"end":4937.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4937.11596875,"end":4949.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4937.35221875,"end":4937.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4949.620343750001,"end":4950.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4950.71721875,"end":4951.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4951.03784375,"end":4994.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4951.08846875,"end":4951.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4951.155968749999,"end":4951.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4995.790343750001,"end":4999.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4998.54096875,"end":5007.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4999.41846875,"end":5000.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5000.802218750001,"end":5001.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5001.139718750001,"end":5001.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5007.82221875,"end":5023.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5024.663468750001,"end":5034.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5034.85596875,"end":5034.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5034.889718750001,"end":5035.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5036.054093750001,"end":5041.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5042.331593750001,"end":5044.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5045.1834687499995,"end":5045.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5045.200343750001,"end":5045.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5045.234093749999,"end":5045.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5045.858468750001,"end":5077.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5077.9715937500005,"end":5096.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5096.02784375,"end":5118.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5119.112843750001,"end":5122.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5124.24284375,"end":5126.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5125.45784375,"end":5126.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5126.841593749999,"end":5126.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5126.97659375,"end":5133.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5133.94596875,"end":5153.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5153.436593750001,"end":5154.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5155.107218749999,"end":5156.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5157.790343750001,"end":5160.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5160.05159375,"end":5168.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5168.91096875,"end":5170.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5170.395968750001,"end":5174.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5176.8759687500005,"end":5178.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5178.63096875,"end":5184.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5184.16596875,"end":5184.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5184.452843749999,"end":5184.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5184.4697187500005,"end":5184.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5184.874718749999,"end":5185.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5185.026593750001,"end":5186.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5186.17409375,"end":5186.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5186.22471875,"end":5186.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5187.72659375,"end":5194.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5192.68784375,"end":5200.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5200.80471875,"end":5201.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5201.22659375,"end":5211.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5212.532843749999,"end":5214.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5215.013468749999,"end":5217.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5218.05096875,"end":5221.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5221.965968750001,"end":5230.251593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5230.3865937499995,"end":5230.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5230.4540937500005,"end":5248.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5248.628468750001,"end":5250.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5250.2147187499995,"end":5251.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5251.311593750001,"end":5255.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5256.1209687499995,"end":5261.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5263.98471875,"end":5265.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5267.49471875,"end":5269.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5283.8465937500005,"end":5288.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5290.2928437499995,"end":5290.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5292.43596875,"end":5293.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5293.026593750001,"end":5293.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5293.3134687500005,"end":5293.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5293.38096875,"end":5293.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5293.93784375,"end":5303.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5303.2528437500005,"end":5311.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5311.2684687500005,"end":5314.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5314.491593750001,"end":5319.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5319.58784375,"end":5320.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5321.03909375,"end":5328.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5328.497843749999,"end":5334.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5335.163468750001,"end":5348.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5349.034718750001,"end":5352.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5352.274718750001,"end":5355.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5355.90284375,"end":5357.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5358.231593750001,"end":5360.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5360.847218750001,"end":5362.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5362.83846875,"end":5366.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5366.58471875,"end":5368.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5368.964093750001,"end":5371.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5372.35596875,"end":5374.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5374.46534375,"end":5376.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5376.62534375,"end":5379.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5379.645968750001,"end":5380.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5380.962218750001,"end":5381.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5382.19409375,"end":5390.985968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5391.374093750001,"end":5391.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5392.960343750001,"end":5395.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5396.58846875,"end":5404.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5405.0428437499995,"end":5408.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5408.35034375,"end":5416.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5409.312218749999,"end":5409.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5409.80159375,"end":5410.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5414.610968749999,"end":5415.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5416.534718750001,"end":5424.314093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5424.685343749999,"end":5430.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5430.878468750001,"end":5431.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5431.09784375,"end":5434.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5431.114718750001,"end":5431.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5431.18221875,"end":5431.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5434.6415937500005,"end":5435.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5436.177218750001,"end":5436.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5436.95346875,"end":5445.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5445.374093750001,"end":5447.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5448.05721875,"end":5449.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5449.6434687500005,"end":5452.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5452.93409375,"end":5454.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5454.33471875,"end":5455.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5455.920968750001,"end":5458.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5458.907843749999,"end":5459.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5459.97096875,"end":5460.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5461.169093750001,"end":5464.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5464.307843750001,"end":5465.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5466.01221875,"end":5469.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5470.247843749999,"end":5474.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5474.196593750001,"end":5477.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5477.757218750001,"end":5478.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5479.444718750001,"end":5480.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5480.9803437499995,"end":5481.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5482.347218750001,"end":5485.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5485.70534375,"end":5487.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5488.489718750001,"end":5511.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5511.67596875,"end":5512.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5513.144093750001,"end":5515.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5516.2997187500005,"end":5517.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5518.071593750001,"end":5519.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5520.11346875,"end":5521.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5521.88534375,"end":5523.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5524.04534375,"end":5525.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5526.05346875,"end":5527.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5526.171593749999,"end":5526.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5527.909718750001,"end":5573.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5550.70784375,"end":5551.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5573.522843750001,"end":5598.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5598.80159375,"end":5607.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5607.694718750001,"end":5623.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5614.680968750001,"end":5614.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5617.04346875,"end":5617.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5617.51596875,"end":5618.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5621.295968750001,"end":5623.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5623.8778437500005,"end":5627.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5627.8603437500005,"end":5627.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5627.944718750001,"end":5629.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5629.0584687499995,"end":5629.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5629.69971875,"end":5630.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5634.5428437499995,"end":5636.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5651.670968750001,"end":5655.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5661.44159375,"end":5664.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5665.255343750001,"end":5667.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5671.09409375,"end":5673.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5673.54096875,"end":5679.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5679.34596875,"end":5709.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5709.99096875,"end":5721.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5715.171593749999,"end":5715.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5723.11971875,"end":5725.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5726.325968749999,"end":5729.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5730.02159375,"end":5731.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5731.79346875,"end":5736.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5737.159718750001,"end":5737.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5737.3622187500005,"end":5739.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5739.75846875,"end":5741.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5741.429093750001,"end":5747.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5748.263468749999,"end":5750.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5750.91284375,"end":5751.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5751.99284375,"end":5753.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5753.62971875,"end":5757.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5757.6122187500005,"end":5761.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5762.03346875,"end":5763.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5764.345343749999,"end":5769.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5769.49221875,"end":5776.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5775.71909375,"end":5776.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5776.64721875,"end":5780.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5781.52409375,"end":5787.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5787.885968750001,"end":5788.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5789.53971875,"end":5792.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5792.982218749999,"end":5796.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5796.745343750001,"end":5797.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5798.2303437499995,"end":5798.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5798.618468750001,"end":5798.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5799.29346875,"end":5804.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5804.72721875,"end":5806.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5806.3134687500005,"end":5806.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5806.9715937500005,"end":5810.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5807.106593750001,"end":5807.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5810.700968749999,"end":5812.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5811.966593749999,"end":5818.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5816.894093750001,"end":5824.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5824.94346875,"end":5832.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5831.87909375,"end":5836.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5836.97534375,"end":5845.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5846.003468750001,"end":5848.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5848.61909375,"end":5853.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5853.5634687500005,"end":5856.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5856.735968750001,"end":5859.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5859.8915937500005,"end":5868.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5869.392218750001,"end":5869.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5870.151593750001,"end":5878.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5878.960343750001,"end":5903.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5903.22659375,"end":5911.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5911.967843750001,"end":5912.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5912.9803437499995,"end":5924.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5924.809718750001,"end":5944.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5942.83221875,"end":5945.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5944.401593750001,"end":5944.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5946.02159375,"end":5952.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5952.687218749999,"end":5956.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5956.349093750001,"end":5956.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5957.091593749999,"end":5957.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5958.01971875,"end":5960.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5960.804093750001,"end":5962.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5962.55909375,"end":5964.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5964.685343749999,"end":5975.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5975.940968750001,"end":5981.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5981.712218750001,"end":5985.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5985.86346875,"end":5988.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5989.13721875,"end":6004.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6004.27409375,"end":6006.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6007.024718750001,"end":6017.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6017.622218750001,"end":6020.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6020.760968750001,"end":6032.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6032.759093750001,"end":6034.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6034.109093749999,"end":6036.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6037.163468750001,"end":6037.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6037.60221875,"end":6041.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6042.10784375,"end":6047.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6047.659718750001,"end":6051.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6051.28784375,"end":6051.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6051.743468750001,"end":6064.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6064.23096875,"end":6069.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6069.81659375,"end":6076.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6076.56659375,"end":6084.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6085.122218750001,"end":6085.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6085.155968749999,"end":6086.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6085.18971875,"end":6087.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6087.788468750001,"end":6088.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6089.340968750001,"end":6091.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6091.686593750001,"end":6095.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6095.21346875,"end":6098.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6097.592843750001,"end":6099.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6099.364718750001,"end":6100.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6100.309718750001,"end":6101.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6101.609093749999,"end":6101.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6102.182843750001,"end":6102.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6102.975968750001,"end":6103.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6105.642218750001,"end":6113.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6114.788468750001,"end":6114.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6126.58409375,"end":6129.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6129.72284375,"end":6131.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6133.907843750001,"end":6141.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6136.0340937500005,"end":6136.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6141.58596875,"end":6145.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6145.298468750001,"end":6147.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6147.694718750001,"end":6149.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6149.989718750001,"end":6151.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6151.862843750001,"end":6174.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6175.50471875,"end":6181.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6182.06909375,"end":6188.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6189.089093750001,"end":6189.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6190.13534375,"end":6191.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6191.36721875,"end":6200.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6200.901593750001,"end":6203.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6204.276593750001,"end":6204.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6204.95159375,"end":6209.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6206.942843750001,"end":6206.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6206.95971875,"end":6206.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6209.524718750001,"end":6209.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6209.54159375,"end":6209.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6209.997218750001,"end":6214.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6214.38471875,"end":6216.595343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6215.717843750001,"end":6216.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6216.67971875,"end":6217.017218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6217.067843750001,"end":6221.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6221.16846875,"end":6221.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6221.387843750001,"end":6224.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6225.0497187500005,"end":6226.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6226.028468750001,"end":6240.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6232.42409375,"end":6232.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6240.878468750001,"end":6248.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6248.759093750001,"end":6249.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6249.653468750001,"end":6254.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6254.985968750001,"end":6260.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6261.01034375,"end":6264.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6265.110968750001,"end":6265.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6265.85346875,"end":6267.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6267.557843750001,"end":6276.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6276.48471875,"end":6277.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6277.260968750001,"end":6280.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6278.40846875,"end":6278.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6278.44221875,"end":6278.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6278.96534375,"end":6278.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6280.51784375,"end":6284.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6284.41596875,"end":6288.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6288.11159375,"end":6288.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6288.43221875,"end":6291.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6291.689093750001,"end":6294.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6294.70971875,"end":6300.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6299.991593750001,"end":6304.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6305.17221875,"end":6313.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6313.37346875,"end":6314.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6314.63909375,"end":6331.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6331.93596875,"end":6339.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6340.154093749999,"end":6345.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6346.684718750001,"end":6347.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6347.714093750001,"end":6361.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6362.800343750001,"end":6367.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6367.862843750001,"end":6373.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6373.6678437499995,"end":6378.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6378.780968749999,"end":6380.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6381.075968749999,"end":6389.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6389.985968750001,"end":6392.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6392.905343750001,"end":6397.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6397.32659375,"end":6402.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6402.4228437500005,"end":6409.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6410.16846875,"end":6410.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6411.029093749999,"end":6414.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6414.4715937500005,"end":6416.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6417.137843750001,"end":6423.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6423.837218750001,"end":6424.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6424.917218750001,"end":6427.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6429.0009687500005,"end":6431.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6431.07659375,"end":6433.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6434.08034375,"end":6435.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6435.784718750001,"end":6441.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6441.640343749999,"end":6447.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6447.934718750001,"end":6448.626593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6449.08221875,"end":6465.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6455.612843750001,"end":6455.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6455.96721875,"end":6456.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6465.75471875,"end":6467.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6467.59409375,"end":6468.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6469.298468750001,"end":6470.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6470.479718750001,"end":6472.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6472.60596875,"end":6475.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6475.677218750001,"end":6478.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6478.41096875,"end":6479.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6478.7822187500005,"end":6482.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6482.41034375,"end":6485.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6485.937218749999,"end":6487.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6487.388468749999,"end":6487.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6488.147843750001,"end":6495.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6495.67409375,"end":6501.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6500.9559687500005,"end":6511.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6512.059718750001,"end":6530.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6531.0272187499995,"end":6533.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6534.317843750001,"end":6537.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6538.215968750001,"end":6541.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6541.79346875,"end":6553.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6551.7665937500005,"end":6552.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6552.559718750001,"end":6554.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6554.77034375,"end":6575.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6575.86409375,"end":6578.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6579.1209687499995,"end":6583.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6583.6434687500005,"end":6584.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6584.4872187500005,"end":6586.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6586.309718750001,"end":6598.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6598.32471875,"end":6598.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6598.64534375,"end":6600.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6599.74221875,"end":6600.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6602.054093750001,"end":6602.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6602.07096875,"end":6602.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6602.7459687499995,"end":6604.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6605.5809687500005,"end":6614.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6614.8622187500005,"end":6619.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6620.97096875,"end":6621.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6623.0634687500005,"end":6627.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6627.923468750001,"end":6631.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6632.715968750001,"end":6635.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6637.52534375,"end":6638.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6638.03159375,"end":6638.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6642.638468749999,"end":6645.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6649.1522187499995,"end":6674.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6674.667218750001,"end":6677.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6678.39659375,"end":6693.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6693.651593750001,"end":6698.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6698.798468750001,"end":6709.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6709.952843749999,"end":6711.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6711.404093749999,"end":6711.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6711.8934687500005,"end":6717.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6717.512843750001,"end":6718.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6717.58034375,"end":6717.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6718.42409375,"end":6730.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6730.439093750001,"end":6748.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6733.13909375,"end":6733.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6733.392218750001,"end":6733.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6733.45971875,"end":6733.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6739.19721875,"end":6739.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6739.36596875,"end":6739.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6748.967843750001,"end":6752.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6753.06846875,"end":6758.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6758.87346875,"end":6762.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6762.90659375,"end":6763.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6763.294718749999,"end":6769.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6769.31909375,"end":6774.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6774.600968750001,"end":6783.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6783.34221875,"end":6793.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6793.450343750001,"end":6794.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6794.091593749999,"end":6797.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6797.60159375,"end":6810.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6810.57846875,"end":6824.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6825.175343750001,"end":6829.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6829.19159375,"end":6829.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6829.394093750001,"end":6844.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6829.41096875,"end":6829.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6836.21159375,"end":6836.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6836.245343750001,"end":6836.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6844.41284375,"end":6844.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6844.632218750001,"end":6877.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6877.909718750001,"end":6881.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6881.385968750001,"end":6881.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6881.58846875,"end":6884.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6884.288468750001,"end":6899.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6896.13471875,"end":6896.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6896.151593750001,"end":6897.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6897.552218750001,"end":6898.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6899.290343750001,"end":6913.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6913.532843750001,"end":6913.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6913.83659375,"end":6920.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6920.50221875,"end":6922.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6922.780343750001,"end":6924.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6924.788468750001,"end":6944.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6944.31284375,"end":6951.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6951.90659375,"end":6967.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6967.75221875,"end":6970.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6971.194718750001,"end":6972.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6973.37159375,"end":6978.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6978.99096875,"end":6979.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6979.530968750001,"end":6980.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6980.44221875,"end":6989.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6987.00659375,"end":6988.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6989.942843750001,"end":7019.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7019.96346875,"end":7035.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7035.62346875,"end":7036.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7037.108468750001,"end":7037.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7037.901593750001,"end":7038.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7038.509093750001,"end":7045.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7045.495343750001,"end":7052.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7052.31284375,"end":7055.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7055.012843750001,"end":7064.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7062.640343750001,"end":7064.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7065.89721875,"end":7065.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7065.9647187499995,"end":7068.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7069.592843750001,"end":7076.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7077.2372187500005,"end":7081.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7088.07096875,"end":7092.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7097.1834687499995,"end":7106.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7106.44784375,"end":7114.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7114.17659375,"end":7121.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7116.25221875,"end":7116.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7116.94409375,"end":7116.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7117.585343750001,"end":7117.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7117.635968750001,"end":7119.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7119.28971875,"end":7121.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7121.60159375,"end":7170.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7171.19721875,"end":7207.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7208.27159375,"end":7233.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7233.921593750001,"end":7237.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7238.3934687500005,"end":7245.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7245.700343750001,"end":7248.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7248.450968749999,"end":7254.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7254.272843750001,"end":7257.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7257.95159375,"end":7259.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7259.77409375,"end":7260.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7260.61784375,"end":7273.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7273.88159375,"end":7362.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7362.930968750001,"end":7379.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7378.9959687499995,"end":7384.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7386.20159375,"end":7387.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7395.5165937500005,"end":7395.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7395.53346875,"end":7397.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7397.5584687499995,"end":7418.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7418.989718750001,"end":7423.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7423.208468750001,"end":7428.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7428.034718750001,"end":7429.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7430.39721875,"end":7434.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7434.66659375,"end":7437.923468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7438.17659375,"end":7442.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7442.63159375,"end":7451.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7451.5584687499995,"end":7491.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7492.22721875,"end":7492.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7492.9697187500005,"end":7575.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7575.319718750001,"end":7576.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7576.872218750001,"end":7577.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7580.31471875,"end":7580.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7580.888468749999,"end":7582.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7584.66846875,"end":7588.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7593.20721875,"end":7596.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7601.45909375,"end":7603.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7603.70346875,"end":7604.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7605.1209687499995,"end":7607.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7607.702843750001,"end":7608.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7608.732218749999,"end":7614.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7614.8240937499995,"end":7617.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7618.33409375,"end":7619.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7619.7684687500005,"end":7622.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7622.02971875,"end":7623.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7623.00846875,"end":7623.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7623.2615937499995,"end":7623.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7623.278468750001,"end":7626.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7623.970343750001,"end":7624.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7624.814093750001,"end":7626.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7626.85596875,"end":7637.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7637.97659375,"end":7639.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7639.394093750001,"end":7646.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7644.49034375,"end":7644.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7645.6884687500005,"end":7650.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7649.147843750001,"end":7649.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7650.649718750001,"end":7650.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7650.66659375,"end":7653.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7652.16846875,"end":7653.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7653.552218750001,"end":7655.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7654.37909375,"end":7655.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7655.948468750001,"end":7657.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7658.6990937499995,"end":7658.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7658.715968750001,"end":7659.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7659.745343750001,"end":7659.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7659.779093749999,"end":7659.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7659.9647187499995,"end":7664.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7659.981593750001,"end":7660.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7660.97721875,"end":7661.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7663.74471875,"end":7664.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7664.048468750001,"end":7668.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7667.49096875,"end":7669.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7669.43159375,"end":7670.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7670.02221875,"end":7673.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7673.41409375,"end":7675.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7675.69221875,"end":7680.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7676.58659375,"end":7677.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7677.177218750001,"end":7677.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7681.83471875,"end":7684.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7684.956593750001,"end":7685.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7685.614718750001,"end":7699.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7700.44784375,"end":7704.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7704.7509687500005,"end":7710.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7710.8934687500005,"end":7712.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7712.64846875,"end":7722.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7722.99284375,"end":7724.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7724.798468750001,"end":7726.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7727.009093750001,"end":7732.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7732.88159375,"end":7732.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7732.89846875,"end":7732.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7732.965968750001,"end":7757.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7743.00659375,"end":7743.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7752.507218750001,"end":7752.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7757.02971875,"end":7758.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7758.413468750001,"end":7765.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7765.78784375,"end":7766.985968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7767.66096875,"end":7773.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7774.107218749999,"end":7776.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7776.53721875,"end":7779.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7780.09784375,"end":7781.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7781.68409375,"end":7801.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7801.56284375,"end":7811.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7811.36721875,"end":7811.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7812.29534375,"end":7815.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7815.653468750001,"end":7818.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7815.80534375,"end":7815.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7815.82221875,"end":7816.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7816.1259687500005,"end":7816.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7818.01596875,"end":7818.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7818.876593750001,"end":7826.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7827.263468749999,"end":7843.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7843.868468750001,"end":7854.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7854.53346875,"end":7860.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7860.72659375,"end":7862.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7862.430968750001,"end":7875.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7863.52784375,"end":7863.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7875.509093750001,"end":7889.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7889.4647187499995,"end":7890.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7890.831593750001,"end":7895.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7895.72534375,"end":7896.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7896.80534375,"end":7902.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7903.3865937499995,"end":7917.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7917.57846875,"end":7919.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7919.890343750001,"end":7921.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7921.915343750001,"end":7926.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7926.134093750001,"end":7929.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7928.22659375,"end":7931.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7932.597218750001,"end":7935.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7935.735968750001,"end":7940.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7940.73096875,"end":7941.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7942.51971875,"end":7949.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7942.6884687500005,"end":7942.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7942.80659375,"end":7942.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7942.97534375,"end":7943.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7949.843468750001,"end":7967.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7966.482218749999,"end":7971.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7968.186593750001,"end":7968.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7970.81909375,"end":7971.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7971.57846875,"end":7978.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7978.632218750001,"end":7984.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7984.97721875,"end":7985.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7985.31471875,"end":7985.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7985.331593750001,"end":7985.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7985.854718750001,"end":7988.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7986.934718750001,"end":7990.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7991.03534375,"end":7997.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7998.47721875,"end":8015.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8002.999718750001,"end":8003.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8015.68971875,"end":8017.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8018.8622187500005,"end":8026.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8024.58284375,"end":8033.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8031.467843750001,"end":8032.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8033.59409375,"end":8048.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8047.448468750001,"end":8048.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8048.427218750001,"end":8048.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8048.96721875,"end":8049.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8049.33846875,"end":8050.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8049.43971875,"end":8062.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8056.122218750001,"end":8056.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8056.64534375,"end":8056.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8061.4715937500005,"end":8077.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8067.512843750001,"end":8068.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8069.4872187500005,"end":8069.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8071.88346875,"end":8071.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8071.917218750001,"end":8072.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8072.96346875,"end":8073.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8077.70534375,"end":8079.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8079.983468750001,"end":8081.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8081.97471875,"end":8082.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8081.991593750001,"end":8082.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8082.39659375,"end":8082.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8082.43034375,"end":8082.919718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8082.919718750001,"end":8083.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8083.020968750001,"end":8083.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8083.1728437500005,"end":8083.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8083.18971875,"end":8083.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8083.79721875,"end":8085.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8083.88159375,"end":8084.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8085.56909375,"end":8085.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8085.653468750001,"end":8124.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8124.98909375,"end":8130.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8130.99659375,"end":8149.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8150.13284375,"end":8164.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8164.61159375,"end":8166.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8167.395968750001,"end":8170.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8169.032843750001,"end":8169.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8170.872218750001,"end":8179.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8179.64721875,"end":8180.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8180.87909375,"end":8182.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8182.819718750001,"end":8186.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8186.430968750001,"end":8189.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8189.02971875,"end":8196.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8196.82596875,"end":8238.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8225.496593750002,"end":8225.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8225.969093750002,"end":8226.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8236.617218750001,"end":8237.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8239.40159375,"end":8241.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8245.30784375,"end":8251.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8252.648468750001,"end":8254.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8254.47096875,"end":8258.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8258.38596875,"end":8262.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8262.63846875,"end":8267.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8267.81909375,"end":8269.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8269.81034375,"end":8276.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8277.437843750002,"end":8280.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8281.875968750002,"end":8282.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8284.086593750002,"end":8284.74471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":594.923,"end":595.144,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":886.084,"end":887.196,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1329.017,"end":1343.32,"text":"現在我們9點準時,請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會,出席委員9人,已足法定人數好,現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀第二次跟第三次的會議紀錄"},{"start":1345.168,"end":1372.964,"text":"立法院第十一屆第五會期內政委員會第二次全體委員會議議事錄時間115年3月16日星期一上午九十一分至十一時三十分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員蘇巧慧委員等十二人列席委員羅明采委員等十三人請教委員廖先祥委員一人列席官員內政部部長劉釋放及相關人員國家住宅及都市更新董事長花敬群主席李昭吉委員博弈報告事項一宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定"},{"start":1374.665,"end":1397.927,"text":"二 邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況含上會期臨時提案辦理情形並被質詢報告事項及討論事項合併詢答內政部部長劉世芳報告委員蘇巧慧等13人質詢由內政部部長劉世芳及相關人員答覆說明委員李貞秀發言時行政官員均不被詢決定登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均與發言完畢詢答結束"},{"start":1399.108,"end":1416.883,"text":"委員王美惠 廖千祥 高金素梅 羅志強 邱志偉所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報主席宣告一 委員會尊重韓國瑜院長的協商結論李政秀女士可以上台發言但法治國家的法律不能用協商所以我們也尊重行政院行政院官員可以不必回答也不必提供資料"},{"start":1417.623,"end":1433.362,"text":"二 書面質詢及未及答覆部分 請相關機關除了李珍秀女士以外於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會討論事項 審查委員林俊憲等23人擬據市區道路條例第23條條文修正常案案 決議討論事項所列議案 另定期繼續審查"},{"start":1434.763,"end":1450.729,"text":"立法院第十一屆第五會及內政委員會第三次全體委員會議議事錄時間115年3月23日星期一上午9時至12時11分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員李曾秀委員等13人列席委員陳昭芝委員等18人列席官員"},{"start":1452.233,"end":1474.982,"text":"大陸委員會主任委員秋垂政經相關人員財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長蘇嘉全暨相關人員主席廖昭吉委員先詳報告事項一宣讀上次會議議事錄決定暫不確定二邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席業務列席報告業務概況並被質詢大陸委員會主任委員秋垂政及財團"},{"start":1476.303,"end":1493.819,"text":"法人海峽交流基金會董事長蘇嘉全暨相關人員報告委員李曾秀等13人質詢時分由大陸委員會主任委員邱垂政及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長蘇嘉全答覆說明委員李曾秀發言時行政官員向主席答覆說明"},{"start":1494.8,"end":1513.136,"text":"決定一 登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢 詢答結束二 委員吳啟明 高金素梅 丁學中所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報三 書面質詢及未及導封部分請相關機關於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會主席宣告"},{"start":1514.076,"end":1539.31,"text":"諮詢過程請尊重發言委員並請行政與立法機關互相尊重未來如有行政院同仁以性別之稱呼委員主席將以同樣方式稱呼官員討論事項審查台北市政府未對計程道路處理條例草案提出建議請願文書案等9案決議請願案均不成為議案依立法院職權新施法第67條第二項之規定送由程序委員會報請願會審查並通知請願人宣讀完畢"},{"start":1544.743,"end":1572.532,"text":"我特別跟委員會說明這個巡曆會把上一次的會議做會議記錄的這個確認有沒有錯誤或遺漏但這一次比較特別因為上一次會議沒有辦法確認3月16號的這個會議的內容就是包含這個尊重行政院可以不用對李貞秀女士的詢答的這一段那如果這一段也確認放入我們的會議記錄請問在場委員有沒有意見"},{"start":1574.099,"end":1602.088,"text":"所以好沒有意見的話我們就把第二次跟第三次的會議記錄都確定現在繼續本本日議程請宣讀報告事項二邀請客家委員會主任委員帥彤所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況含上會期臨時提案辦理情形並備質詢宣讀完畢好現在介紹在場委員及列席官員"},{"start":1604.932,"end":1623.519,"text":"首先介紹張宏祿委員王美惠委員黃婕委員吳祁銘委員謝謝接下來我們再介紹行政院客委會與會官員客委會主任委員谷秀菲主委"},{"start":1628.171,"end":1655.939,"text":"接下來直接介紹財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長宋庭棟客家電視台台長向聖嫣台長還有剛剛的客家公共傳播基金會的代理總經理莊盛宏總經理還有客委會的主任秘書吳克能主秘"},{"start":1657.858,"end":1679.457,"text":"好謝謝,那其他與會官員我們就不一一介紹接下來會有兩個報告,那我們還是限制一下時間主委三分鐘還是五分鐘五分鐘好請谷秀暉主委報告,時間五分鐘,謝謝"},{"start":1689.228,"end":1715,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位朋友 大家好很高興列席國語委員會來做報告客語會核心業務之一是客語附贈今天在國會殿堂用客語來進行報告和質詢對委員來說 透過翻譯機可能會有些取得不便但容我們一起來實踐以客語為主要使用的語言的機會"},{"start":1715.953,"end":1730.09,"text":"以下的報告跟質詢 我就用客語來表達本市除了持續推動行業負增圖 合同創業創新以外 即將連結強硬勢推 做出合格文化用心的創設"},{"start":1731.852,"end":1739.559,"text":"以致重點實證的成果,就通過報告請國會委員職高在強硬供應產業方面,本市去年宿舍成立的合格強硬諮詢委員會、體育國委員會擬通批立工作"},{"start":1748.288,"end":1755.655,"text":"協力強硬委員、國民參議團政策諮詢的能力今年議廳判定分期座談,協助強硬委員參議政策推動也議廳判定休省行事階段設計規劃,由強硬來支柱提案,都分為今行短期的設施"},{"start":1769.758,"end":1790.665,"text":"在核架生涯發展方面,核架壁1.0已經累積成功與營運,僅僅為突出核架壁2.0擴大來使用對象和重塑來打造更加全面的工學成分圈,能夠推動重範核種和提防重生以及計劃,協助47V以及柵堤核種再建。"},{"start":1795.387,"end":1814.51,"text":"不必持續透過兩點的法庭、種植車路、離站、搭建國際賽事,來享受學家的信任、提升差異經濟。在學中建設團文化保存方面,已經在天土研室、食育研室、尼森尼利學中生化交流中心、"},{"start":1815.151,"end":1836.708,"text":"新竹縣等五縣市7位學種絲綢在省示範店以及新竹縣10縣市21位圖書館的空間有法讓本府持續推動學種歷史建築修復同在利用的工廠在行業復振方面 求人的參加行業認證"},{"start":1838.889,"end":1846.613,"text":"超過3萬人,比較前年慎重的超過5千人。能夠推動行政參議員服務計劃,開辦有844項,以及判斷兩百重的親子和合法公共事務法庭、養殖家庭和社區共享的環境,要完成行政議員辨識,"},{"start":1867.312,"end":1886.578,"text":"以及翻譯技術、開發的AI主播等多年的應用、用業、醫療、教育和公共服務從事。在連結全球學校名錄方面,以及今年本月的提拔示範裡,讓我們台灣學校勤勤大費、有請温泰族的學校沙團、國內的學校事務總裁機關,以及很多學校先進來參與。"},{"start":1896.943,"end":1920.466,"text":"在客座、仲裁、管法方面,大公司負責經驗成長的占點有610億元,同時攀起陸域同流的服務。另外,有40億元的占點為攀起非本的批判服務,發展於文化領域,做到了福祉的照顧服務模式。"},{"start":1921.553,"end":1942.991,"text":"在文化、美容及養殖營發展方面,求人的送食貴賓,台灣社貿平生行節目,展現了合格、嚴若、傳統及現代表現的特殊性。今年土的國有太歲,全台灣有四期將近五百推,超過一萬兩千人參與,同志豐廠合作推出營館勤製鏗,"},{"start":1949.016,"end":1972.648,"text":"在台湾与14城市、台北、高雄、美国及台南评统与全球企业参与本会日持续出版、创邀作杂作品、推动文学翻译及国际组织在流行文化方面,创立全球流行业务体系及企业企业开发"},{"start":1975.171,"end":1988.563,"text":"對於非所屬南北延期的洋運方面,除了非得到交通部公共事務、公共百貨兩點以外,也對延期亦得到最佳規律的重新做。"},{"start":1991.886,"end":2016.141,"text":"美国、英国、法国等知名的帝国与世界中方未来会持续退战合作最后本非与美国持续进行国防业务、枪法、抢眼、残疾、共枪事务、挑戈核武战策、抗体抗议、宣发、宣发权、活络与核武战役"},{"start":2017.162,"end":2042.918,"text":"提升全民共學的意識 未來會持續用俗創新 窮好 窮兇為主軸來推動行業生發法和國際學流 讓本台灣體育學家 體師界發光以上報告 堅強各位委員的資格 祝福各位身體健康 萬事宜 生命體格 安智晟 努力謝謝 謝謝谷主委"},{"start":2047.455,"end":2051.839,"text":"接下來我們請採訪法人客家公共傳播基金會宋庭棟董事長來報告謝謝好"},{"start":2062.455,"end":2069.218,"text":"主席,各位委員,大家好,聽眾見面,該永恆非同學位費顧諸委,來列席該委員費,來報告採訪發言客家公共傳播基金費,一百一十五年圖任務報告。"},{"start":2081.463,"end":2089.97,"text":"聖蒙主席亦與國會議員的至高致詞和傳譽順利運作,亦可以作為推動香港文化及共襄傳播與國際創業的單位。"},{"start":2096.796,"end":2115.408,"text":"我們基於當初實施的初衷,我們押下115年進行的工作,提供結合數位肥料平台,養育公共和公共天臺。115年,我們安心有80次的節目,"},{"start":2121.392,"end":2129.055,"text":"人們的為頭也有報導天台電台製作40億的節目總共有100億人的節目人們的節目的支持率達到66.1%人們可以輔助其他團體的20億人從社工力的廣播天台來直播58億的帶狀節目"},{"start":2148.761,"end":2170.629,"text":"我們在蘇美食堂的部分,我們有完成差不多74個Podcast的節目,不用說主要我們這次的講法講不聽的官方不用說,我們有送Apple10各種的春柳平台,到三月底日子,我們在這個食堂的次數有九十一萬七千人吃。"},{"start":2171.989,"end":2188.88,"text":"今天的工作是結合蘇維埃的科技來培育我們的黑衣傳播的研裁。為了鼓勵我們國家製作優秀的黑衣傳播的黑衣公布節目,我們一百二十年,"},{"start":2189.86,"end":2197.447,"text":"持續叛逆核三重,核戰的開始會開始修建。我們會規劃重視核二的博客創作因,例如健康三一批的核二公佈的運作。第三,我們想增加核二公佈的平台,加強核二的公共化,"},{"start":2218.203,"end":2230.93,"text":"為了增加行業貢獻發揮,我們一百一十三年由蘇建復興公佈天台、寬散公佈天台、國雄公佈天台來播放7個工學公佈天台的節目,其餘部分我們會持續進行。7次工作,來挑戰央視作品市場提高國際知名度,"},{"start":2243.197,"end":2251.541,"text":"近期有些樣片已經上映,其中雙片在背景樣片被播放後,新一代會送到中華電視MOD平台"},{"start":2265.187,"end":2272.512,"text":"目前在境外的現場也有對抗,有促進動體播放。我們在丟包阿公到我這裏拍片,也會在沙雷新一處參加芝加哥的亞洲運動演習,在北美首映。"},{"start":2289.645,"end":2301.114,"text":"在他們的工作下,製造新媒體的樣相,提高客家人間圖,並且結合實施製作相關議題的報導,以及從吳斯堅說出來,還有各種客家的斷言言。"},{"start":2307.779,"end":2320.564,"text":"也有AII依賴,也有等等的樣片當然三年代未知,我們的核酬比我們所屬的樣因的平台,觀看次數,觀看次數達到1100,其實是3萬次我們也有透過影響、影響肌肉的方式來製作民意設施,有歷史意義跟人文沉重的樣片"},{"start":2336.85,"end":2349.923,"text":"這六個工作,我們用行動專博查來成立合作,順序修正來呈現合格的故事,我們用講學後的行動專博查,只要有發通的時間,我們會成立合作,進行相同的採訪,補充及時的內容揚聲,"},{"start":2361.494,"end":2374.356,"text":"我們工學團隊的所謂的雙性壓力壓度我們在3月12日已經參加文創司發動來促進的運輸,差不多五成五萬元運輸我們也在連結採取的英文的執行,提前做的發佈屏東運教室、台服房還有神秘書店、神秘書店、電梯、棋盤等土壤合格的順序所在"},{"start":2390.579,"end":2405.724,"text":"這次的工作是我們披露客家兒童營養的年齡,提供贊揚的舞台,我們擁有的結立客家兒童合唱團,目前我們有50名團員,讓我們對合唱兩位也得到相同態的認定,"},{"start":2417.367,"end":2424.753,"text":"提拔工作,及時分享各種事實,提升各家鄉長對各家的認同度。我們的黑新聞,對我們的三月底為止,我們已經刊登了兩萬三千兩篇的新聞。"},{"start":2440.264,"end":2446.748,"text":"累積傳播年次699萬,有1,008萬次的點閱,持續提升名專新聞及記事信、多年信,存放我們的學傳費及學長的鏈結。"},{"start":2462.899,"end":2468.705,"text":"醫生追核傳肥115年的任務報告,堅強COVID-19的制高,也強度繼續支持我們的核傳肥。謝謝大家。"},{"start":2482.964,"end":2506.74,"text":"好謝謝我們現在進行詢答那委員諮詢前原例做幾點宣告每位委員諮詢時間本會委員5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記本次會議不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見沒有"},{"start":2509.377,"end":2529.734,"text":"好謝謝那現在進行詢問請登記第一位的張宏祿委員諮詢我先請這個宋董事長"},{"start":2541.583,"end":2564.514,"text":"委員好宋董事長,我想先請問一下我們這個客家廣播電台,這個全台灣的涵蓋率,你們覺得如何?目前在北部的涵蓋,收聽率是比較高的我沒有問你收聽率,我只問你涵蓋率"},{"start":2566.069,"end":2593.501,"text":"涵蓋是全島都有這個都能夠收聽所有的客庄我們都有在監測你們現在的頻道都是FM嘛對對不對對但你也知道有些客庄是在比較山上是其實他的收聽的很不清晰有的地方會很難收聽得到你們有知道嗎"},{"start":2594.361,"end":2618.973,"text":"有,我們有在做一個準備做一個調查這個就是各地的收聽品質的部分那我本人我也是在各地走的時候我也會去監測當地的收聽的環境的確有一些地方不太理想另外因為我們拿到的頻道是到就是台北"},{"start":2621.27,"end":2646.427,"text":"雙北這邊的頻率105.9那桃竹是105.7然後到苗栗台中南投這邊又是104.3 101.5然後再下去又104.3等等這個大家都知道啦每天他在那邊他都知道頻率在哪裡我現在跟你說的就是有一些比較山區比較什麼的"},{"start":2648.451,"end":2662.829,"text":"他根本就是收訊的狀況品質不怎麼好嘛對啊,這個你知道嗎?了解像比如說我們在苗栗那邊我們的發射台在火炎山"},{"start":2663.61,"end":2691.39,"text":"那但是像我們比較靠近台三線的大湖那邊就是它的收聽狀況不理想,所以我們就會設置這個補戲台使得那邊的那個收聽的情況可以改善我知道啦,我只問你像有很多地方收聽情況並不是很好的情況,你知道了嗎?你知不知道?我們知道有相當一部分的啊對嘛"},{"start":2692.811,"end":2706.649,"text":"對嘛 我也是很多人跟我反應啊 對不對他在山區 他在什麼 根本就收聽想要聽 也聽不到 聽不清楚嘛這個你知道嘛 知道那可能齁"},{"start":2707.95,"end":2737.69,"text":"想辦法去改善不然花了這麼多錢那我們的客家鄉親他要聽反而都聽不到啊甚至是不是有可能跟有一些AM的電台合作嘛他就有可能聽得到了嘛你如果跟他合作你反而不用自己再花很多錢啊你也知道有這種情況了有這種情況不是今天啦我覺得想辦法去把它改善啦"},{"start":2738.29,"end":2759.763,"text":"既然我們有製作這麼多的節目那我們客家鄉親聽不到耶聽不到耶這個我覺得做了這麼多結果聽不到很可惜啦所以我希望你們可以去改善這個問題啦好不好是非常認同委員指教好 謝謝那來我再請谷主委"},{"start":2766.16,"end":2766.32,"text":"總議員主委這個"},{"start":2770.475,"end":2798.437,"text":"我們從以前我就一直在講這個要推動這個客語方便什麼主委現在AI的這個應用非常的普及然後你看有很多用AI去學英文去什麼的這種也非常的多那我們客委會有沒有想過要來開發一個程式或什麼讓我們一般人想要學客語或什麼"},{"start":2798.897,"end":2806.781,"text":"我透過APP或什麼的然後我就可以即時對話我就可以什麼很方便來學客語我們有沒有這個想法"},{"start":2808.917,"end":2834.84,"text":"感謝委員的指教,目前對於藥膚粉的確實有慢慢的在推動包括藥膚機的導入,藥膚創業的,目前已經在進行沒錯,藥膚設備技術等等,很在進行所以你們有在做了?有,有在做那大概多久可以?"},{"start":2835.581,"end":2850.602,"text":"可以讓民眾去使用那如果民眾使用,要不要付費目前我們傾向不付費因為公共的資源,除非是藥塘或其他用藥"},{"start":2851.984,"end":2880.025,"text":"這個就要最主要的背後其實雨衣雨尿褲要建置得非常龐大非常完整它要有辦法推動所以這個建置其實是一直在持續提供金行等所以我們預計是今年年底那個客滑對翼等等的系統會出來不不不客滑對翼的系統那個是另外一個系統我現在所說的是其實現在的技術"},{"start":2882.008,"end":2898.966,"text":"應該都做得到你看人家那個英語教學的英語什麼的那個用AI然後跟你這個即時對話即時什麼這個來練習是很快的我的意思是說人家商業都已經這樣做了那我們課委會有這麼多"},{"start":2900.848,"end":2917.721,"text":"的資源那我們也要積極推廣這個我的意思是開發一個很簡單的APP的一個程式然後讓所有的人只要想的我就可以上啊對不對然後我就可以隨時隨地我就可以練習客語啊學客語啊"},{"start":2919.882,"end":2936.179,"text":"我覺得這個就像主委講的那個資料庫那個什麼可能是比較複雜的然後我們還有很多的不同的腔調這個有可能你們會比較複雜前期的前置座位會比較久但我覺得"},{"start":2937.26,"end":2956.879,"text":"這個是做得到的而且我也不認為要花很多錢啊如果要花很多錢啊這些人家商業用他怎麼可能會有獲利呢對不對所以我的意思是說開發像這樣的程式讓大家免費可以去隨時隨地去去講客家話啊去學客家話啊我的意思是這個欸 主委"},{"start":2959.442,"end":2981.74,"text":"我認為要提議過後,我們要做最重要的,因為我們在過去幾十年和未來重啟以來,事實和我們的語音、語料的部分已經累積到一定的程度了,要運用,要做的運用,未來所提的運用的部分,要構成我們的目標"},{"start":2983.868,"end":2999.594,"text":"我是這樣啦你們可以跟教育部一起合作這個開發出來的大家都一起共用的那你要做到百分之百你才要上線我覺得也沒有必要啦對不對一般的對話一般的什麼的這個"},{"start":3001.615,"end":3025.234,"text":"有差不多的就可以了啊你就慢慢補足啊也讓大家知道啊我覺得這就可以做啦我是覺得主委這個如果你也認同這樣我覺得你也認同嘛那我們就你們試試看來做做看嘛現在我們有AI主播啦但是很忙對話AI對話可以再推進再往前推進"},{"start":3026.595,"end":3045.637,"text":"我再說一下不好意思這個你現在去上網上很多學英文的都有了這太多了那只是要資料庫進去而已我不認為這是很困難的我也不認為這要花很多錢如果要花很多錢他商業的使用他要賺什麼"},{"start":3046.758,"end":3065.728,"text":"那我們既然有這個資源我們來做我覺得花不了多少錢讓所有的 而且你做這個不是只有給台灣喔全世界的客家人 全世界都可以用我們這個APP喔對不對 我覺得這個你可以思考一下好 感謝委員好 謝謝"},{"start":3073.523,"end":3089.168,"text":"謝謝,謝謝張宏祿委員接下來請張志倫委員質詢好,謝謝主席、各位委員、各位官員大家早有請克爾惠谷主委"},{"start":3096.181,"end":3113.697,"text":"股主委長謝謝還是要感謝客委會在去年對我們地方活動的支持尤其在114年當時新北市有舉辦一個新北客家藝名祭那當時我也特別拜託股主委這個地方的這個活動"},{"start":3115.419,"end":3141.691,"text":"因為某些的問題經費不足那也感謝谷主委把這個補助的金額從一百萬增加到兩百萬讓活動順利圓滿不僅是讓青年參與讓國際社會國際一些友好的組織來參與那也要拜託谷主委那今年希望也可以比照辦理給新北最大的支持因為新北的客家人數大概高達六十七萬的客家人都很重視這樣的活動"},{"start":3142.651,"end":3170.781,"text":"那接下來要請教就依照客核會最新的業務報告本席常常跟主委請教就是有關於博工造戶站那就報告裡面可以看到出來今年博工造戶站已經從過去的556個已經今年已經成立到611個的博工造戶站然後我覺得這是一件很好的事就是我們有放寬這個客家社區的認定那也讓這個"},{"start":3172.242,"end":3188.801,"text":"未來客家社區的人口數就是從過往要常住人口的50%放寬到30%這樣的調整本席可以接受可是本席的選區在新北市新北市跟台北市的客就是客家人的人數非常的多"},{"start":3189.341,"end":3215.339,"text":"那現在全國總共剛剛本席有提到611個我們雙北的博工照護站因為博工照護站我覺得很棒不僅是可以讓這個長輩有一個可以參加活動的地方甚至我們博工照護站它的意旨就是希望說有長輩來把這個課語可以傳給自己的下一代或者是孫子這樣子讓家庭照護更圓滿跟語言傳承更好的一個方式"},{"start":3215.839,"end":3240.886,"text":"可是現在雙北的博工造戶站只有台北市一個站新北市一個站都沒有那其他以現在來講以客家社區來講是有10個客家社區都沒有成立博工造戶站所以是不是請主委就是說你有在努力可是在雙北我們的博工造戶站好像成效還不是很好那是不是請主委有沒有什麼想法可以來解決這個問題"},{"start":3242.706,"end":3250.11,"text":"感謝委員 最主要是社區的意願最重要社區的意願最重要社區的意願最重要社區的意願最重要社區的意願最重要社區的意願最重要"},{"start":3265.137,"end":3282.807,"text":"是 就是主委說的沒錯因為你剛剛你所說的就是我們現在雙北市可以開放成客家社團這十個區只有一個區願意來設博工造戶站所以是不是說主委因為博工造戶站的這個今年的預算也比去年有稍微增加一些增加了大概一兩千萬"},{"start":3283.527,"end":3312.345,"text":"是不是今年可以再打破框架更大刀闊斧把這個比例可以再稍微調整一下比如說客羽使用30%我們可以下降到20%左右或是我跟主委報告一下我們可以調整就是如果說是客家人口涉及區域在城市民比如說像新北板橋新莊中和等等這些地方是不是都有機會來考慮就是像之前我請教你的他們都可以把它認為是客家社團"},{"start":3313.59,"end":3331.721,"text":"的一部分,有沒有這樣的機會?但你也報告,我們先,第一年先這樣我們再試一下,明年的中控很弱,我們先用以下30%至於說要下降多20%,我們看30%有其他的社區有依然在參議,看那參議的長途,我們再去調整修正"},{"start":3340.065,"end":3367.472,"text":"因為從30降到20的時候從剛剛講50降到30的時候只有一個增加一個博工照護站所以我覺得這個比例可以第一個還可以再往下調看看會不會有更多社區大家願意共同來參與我覺得這非常好那好謝謝主委那第二個我要來請教我們主委就是就是像去年我們有個政策也蠻不錯就是客家幣的使用率客家幣使用的部分那去年來講大概是有28萬人來去做申請"},{"start":3368.712,"end":3394.572,"text":"也花了大概政府大概28億的預算那以使用率來講如果我們簡單來講抓六七成的話大概是兩億的經費那現在目前為止到3月20的話這個總消費的金額大概是1.25億那我覺得是有達到階段性的目標不過整體使用率還是有比較低大概才45%那就客人會有去做問卷調查"},{"start":3395.333,"end":3412.001,"text":"那店家我們當然希望整個的目的就是不僅是要促進一些商家的效益也要促進這個客語的使用率可是就你們的訪查來講好像店家主動說客語的比例也只有40%所以現在我們客家屁的使用的經費不到50% 45%"},{"start":3413.542,"end":3439.637,"text":"那說店家願意說主動說客的比例也還不到50%只有40%那以現在我覺得這客家幣是一個很好的政策那是不是主委您針對客家幣的使用的進度執行率跟未來是不是盡量拜託店家來去主動說客讓大家知道有客家幣這樣的活動是不是有一些您覺得有沒有一些執行的方式可以跟大家說明一下"},{"start":3440.117,"end":3448.604,"text":"感謝委員 首先我要說我們多儲平益比值是1.3億我們預估 我們預編預算的2億那1.3億已經達到65%了那第一 今天我們主要的目的正是要強調體學也要重點在說學的事情所以我們也在今年替拜學家畢業時用也要"},{"start":3474.182,"end":3489.746,"text":"在2.0 今年新的一季我們會強調客語的使用一定要特多用的客語使用率才可以成為我們的店家要2.0強制這個部分所以我會推動以客語為消費語言的環境"},{"start":3495.185,"end":3519.782,"text":"好所以剛剛主委特別講到就是這次的客專的店家基本上都要盡量百分之百在至少連顧客來的時候一開始都一定要先講客語那今年我了解今年2.0你這個能使用客家幣的對象也沒有涉聯齡限制等等也有一些改進那我再請教一下主委就是說那今年客家幣大概預算整理發放的金額大概是多少"},{"start":3521.544,"end":3536.011,"text":"2.0的部分我們一樣編列2億元2億元來執行這個計畫有沒有今年沒有增加更多嗎我們預算沒有成長請委員支持我支持我支持這個客家地我們會支持預算沒有成長"},{"start":3538.072,"end":3562.69,"text":"最後一個問題就是關於客家語言發展法上次我有請教主委就是客家語言發展法我們現在立法的進度因為上次主委在這邊有跟我們講說因為跟文化部推動的國家語言發展中心的業務有重疊跟抵觸就本行有去了解了一下好像目前來講好像文化部還是不太願意跟你們來開協調會來處理這個問題"},{"start":3565.592,"end":3585.149,"text":"那在上次質詢的時候我有請教主委你說有可能這個客家語言發展法因為它最大的重點就是保障這個客語在國家語言的地位以及保障人民來使用客語那如果以現在文化部還是沒有來繼續跟你們開會這個會期有機會把草案送到立法院嗎"},{"start":3586.41,"end":3611.087,"text":"感謝議員 目前我們這次在亞非去送到立法院目前我們在京都 非禮堡已經都完備了要簽到行政院裡頭已經有溝通了是OK的有溝通OK了大概去年溝通了幾次我送您也有要客家語言研究中心這個已經送來立法院了"},{"start":3612.484,"end":3630.46,"text":"這個也要文化部的法案已經送下去了客語發展法目前要送行政院但是行政院通過的主要要送到立法院所以這個會期會送到行政院?對,我們會去期待OK,那是一個蠻好的進度啦那希望主委跟客語會的同仁大家一起加油謝謝"},{"start":3638.884,"end":3642.668,"text":"好 謝謝張志倫委員 接下來我們請王美惠委員質詢 謝謝主席 大家 諸位"},{"start":3659.396,"end":3678.353,"text":"主委老實講,在這裡本身跟你先談到一個,我們課宜基本法裡面在這個規定,在第四條的規定,很清楚的我們的課教委員,領口如果代理三分之一,叫做課宜就要通宇的"},{"start":3683.138,"end":3694.862,"text":"那個交流嘛那離婚制的那個時候就是主要的通行嘛在這個規定裡面說在1897年已經是到今年11月就八年要完成的時候立法委員會"},{"start":3704.826,"end":3727.759,"text":"現在會刻意實施,你覺得有麻煩嗎?來,主委,你回答一下感謝委員的指教,確實說,我不滿意啦就要合法的施用,不按國,要有滑落的跡象主委,你說的就是重點啦,我們想跟你說的是奇怪,我們的努力當中沒有進步、沒有打緊"},{"start":3733.362,"end":3748.734,"text":"還要批幾年,還要退步這是什麼原因?因為我覺得你也很認真去選擇認真去做的在這個過程當中,我們的公務人員你也是鼓勵他們去核實、去學但是在這裡看的時候,我們是覺得說一年要批一年就好"},{"start":3757.561,"end":3763.349,"text":"要不然說了解我們土的資料跟我們所有的"},{"start":3764.457,"end":3773.123,"text":"是退步的所以主委在這個過程當中你有什麼好的方法嗎來 請主委"},{"start":3795.098,"end":3806.547,"text":"主委你沒有要求提升很多人說的你又要求說不能夠比之前那些人說但是事實上已經越來越多人說了這才是危機的問題啦這就是定義跟說台語一樣啦你若沒有用心"},{"start":3821.178,"end":3843.183,"text":"去了解說要怎麼讓他們可以繼續進步的時候是越來越嚴重像我們的身體管理員也好廟裡管理員也好他的科家委員也很多嘛你如果在那裡的時候你把他一直鑽到那裡我們如果在那個地方你他不去鑽到的時候像我自己在那裡他都會了解他是在補分"},{"start":3850.605,"end":3871.133,"text":"的課程都大在那裡,但是每一次看到的活動還是我們中央有什麼說實在的,它都想不到,我們中央說課位有什麼活動,有什麼可以用課位來講故事這是很嚴重的,主委"},{"start":3877.36,"end":3886.525,"text":"也不是說要平安的那種種子種啦就運用的像所有的市民朋友在的這個問題這個問題意識啊 那每一個人都要有啊哪有可能成就一個這麼嚴重的問題啊"},{"start":3897.392,"end":3915.905,"text":"所以我們最核心的就是要開啟民眾對於這個課宇流失的危機感危機意識因為主委我本席聽你講的時候 我覺得你那個議題也有很感受我們的課宇會流失去"},{"start":3920.948,"end":3934.376,"text":"在像本席所謂的台語,大家不能說他講藝術所以說我希望主委要有一個配套的方法因為你說過程有時候我們的"},{"start":3937.037,"end":3950.863,"text":"文藝也好,什麼資源也好,都在自己固定可以表現的地方,這樣我們的科技不會進步我們要去議路進展的時候,像你們做的儀碼,你看做得怎麼樣"},{"start":3955.949,"end":3984.027,"text":"還在嘉義市表演的時候,有很多人看了尤其這次嘉義縣的發展的時候我們的魚也有很多人看了再來,我們的燈怪的時候在這次表演的時候,也可以客氣不可以說因為有很多人就沒有在那裡表演這樣我們的客氣"},{"start":3985.588,"end":4005.268,"text":"真的會流失去啦主委,你們政府像現在很好地表演的時候雖然是我們的政府誘惑,但是我們就是盡量要去各地去表演,大小廳都讓人了解"},{"start":4006.559,"end":4024.31,"text":"這裡的客人可以去參與,這才是最重要的所以,再來,我們的客人在裡面很重要的就是,你們還剩下三個月,在最近這麼多次的時候,要怎麼可以真的使用,大家都會使用到"},{"start":4034.482,"end":4051.756,"text":"因為剛才有委員跟你們說 跟你們用的信你可知道裡面 不要說店家會說我們的課宜 阿伯你可知道裡面 整個八達裡面 跟二十二達是我們課宜委員的財"},{"start":4058.444,"end":4065.449,"text":"那些東西,除了有美食的,還有什麼?你們的規定是如何規定的?你代表解釋一下好不好?跟議員說明,跟政府說明,要把東西推出來主要創造、恢復創造跟恢復用客語來消費的環境"},{"start":4088.904,"end":4106.152,"text":"美食的東西在創造我們刻意裡面的或是裡面我不排斥說美食或是日本料理因為我覺得裡面的東西你不覺得很奇怪嗎"},{"start":4110.214,"end":4126.591,"text":"我們回想我們三十年前回想我們三十年五十年聽說總統在一個聚落買任何東西消費任何東西都是用我的語言那是很自然的事情但是這三十年下來全部用華語"},{"start":4129.233,"end":4135.057,"text":"是要透過這個消費的模式去所以現在一個問題是很嚴重的就是說你東西也不是我們靠的料理的東西最不好你也要你的依然要你靠的依然東西也不是靠的"},{"start":4149.325,"end":4167.43,"text":"的料理跟公園不是客戶的料理跟我們台積的錢就不一樣了所以你也要反省說有一次是我們客戶的特色在哪裡說也不是八百多元裡面的麵跟二十二斤是我們客戶的"},{"start":4175.279,"end":4187.055,"text":"我認同這樣的看法而且客家幣2.0也要朝這個方向就不管商店營業的是什麼一定要說客語這件事情"},{"start":4189.378,"end":4196.743,"text":"因為主委本身是要跟你說,你有用心去用這個時候,你不管要什麼,像你說的,我們可以買百行,要不然用課宜說,這樣我們不就給大家那個標準,跟你說開支,要不然要說課宜,要不然要買"},{"start":4210.612,"end":4236.373,"text":"我們客家的料理跟這樣開車的錢哪有什麼意義所以在這裡面 我覺得這要去改善啦在客戶裡面的基本法的時候 我們說實在的要要的 因為要有時間有教育像高一七 加大國小他就辦得很好 他有十辦一辦他不過都是有這個"},{"start":4239.736,"end":4258.842,"text":"一概念就是 我覺得這樣沒辦法長久之計啦我們這都要去改善去處理才對 我也覺得說大家互相委託你的依然要保存下去 要用心去改觀完全認同 完全認同 感謝王委員謝謝 感謝王委員 謝謝完美會委員 謝謝接下來我們請黃婕委員"},{"start":4275.097,"end":4276.678,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請谷主委好 主委早我也是第一個問題想要請教這個客家幣因為這個其實我之前也有質詢過那我認為這個用意是很好的那可不可以請主委在這邊再次說明我們這個客家幣政策的用意為何"},{"start":4299.632,"end":4301.794,"text":"我們還有那種傳統的客家庭我們出去那邊在手機賣東西 不過賣菜、賣食物、賣東西的事情我們自然就會用客家在手機但是現在的環境,我們說國客的環境,有幾十年來"},{"start":4318.57,"end":4334.26,"text":"已經抹下來了,全部用反映的,我們要透過消費行為和語言意識在商店端、消費端建立起來所以我們要透過學校筆、媒介去要求、要點價,做到主動使用合法"},{"start":4342.878,"end":4372.258,"text":"好對所以我也希望說這個因為剛剛看這個現在你們希望使用客家幣的這個店家的講客語的比例其實不夠高那我也認為說那其實這樣子使用你們這個客家幣的政策就有點可惜所以在這邊兩個建議喔因為其實我之前也提過說我們高雄啊像是鳳山三明古山客家的人口雖然沒有說你們達到你們所謂的重點發展區的門檻但是也有一定的數量"},{"start":4372.938,"end":4390.789,"text":"那其實這樣的這個不看比例只看人口數的話其實是也蠻可觀的那所以我也希望說這一些沒有放在你們非重點區的這一些區域是不是也有機會被納入讓你們這樣子使用客家幣的範圍可以擴大呢這是第一個"},{"start":4392.43,"end":4417.843,"text":"這樣就跟我們委員報告後,還有比2.2萬經驗開始區域範圍,全台灣沒有限制合作但是唯一的條件,就是剛才說的客語要達到我們要求的比例一定會點眼所有的店員一定要會講三句話,三句客語還有前台的30%以上的前台服務人員,要達到客語流利的標準"},{"start":4418.723,"end":4438.793,"text":"所以要通過抑鬱的測試 做得順利 這樣點解所以 不過那毒素提起 核種提起 都要有它的條件 張有法圖所以 擴大全台灣的點解好 沒錯 因為這個我之前也提過我也希望說 更彈性 其實是更有機會擴大 加大使用科學的範圍"},{"start":4439.673,"end":4457.042,"text":"那另外一件事情就是年齡的門檻因為你們在1.0裡面的這個年齡門檻是說18到49歲可以來抽籤那我會希望說其實18歲以下的孩子如果鼓勵他們使用課語或者是加入這個課裝的話其實他們是更有機會學習的"},{"start":4458.343,"end":4467.616,"text":"那所以有沒有機會把這個年齡的門檻再放寬讓十八歲以下的孩子也有機會來使用客家幣呢我們二點人十八歲以下的目前那整堆在學校讀理 有學 學法"},{"start":4475.527,"end":4496.682,"text":"也要參與學家、課長、學生的一天的領用的對象所以也要部分我們已經由年齡向下國小、國中、高中、升都做到使用但是前提是不可以有參與課程"},{"start":4498.682,"end":4521.316,"text":"所以只要這個學校裡面有相關課與課程他們就有資格包括國小、國中、高中那他們都有機會來抽這個課加幣是嗎不用抽就可以你有這個課程他就可以拿到課加幣那太好了那這兩個目標就是希望2.0可以比1.0更好的地方那看來2.0都有改進了"},{"start":4523.277,"end":4552.279,"text":"好謝謝主委我在這邊非常非常的肯定那最後一件事情是這個課宇新傳師那因為課宇新傳師其實我看了一下就是我有課委會給我的數據現在全台的新傳師大概3858人但是呢去年的數據是開課803班也就是說每一位新傳師平均下來連開一班都不到那我不知道主委怎麼想這件事情那是不是有點可惜呢"},{"start":4553.132,"end":4560.682,"text":"沒有錯 新船師那樣的合法傳承 過程的阻力要在保育過度 過度複雜的年齡有的事情 不但開一半 也開好多半"},{"start":4568.172,"end":4570.094,"text":"他們的信箱一般都沒有開 沒錯所以可是委員體的問題人們重啟以後 也會針對教學跟新傳室方面有多多的溝通"},{"start":4586.507,"end":4603.582,"text":"郭董問題不用說他的距離就開班的好久那天過夜呢他父親沒心事但是他還沒認出沒發生什麼事他父親父親的好久開口所以郭董負責的問題"},{"start":4606.358,"end":4626.75,"text":"對所以呢我這邊其實有接到一些新傳師的反應啦他們有提供幾個可以改革的地方第一個是行政的負擔他們說啊教課一個小時但核銷要花兩個小時他們覺得這個過程的手續太繁複了太麻煩了他寧願就是雖然有新傳師的資格但是我懶得去開班"},{"start":4627.25,"end":4641.726,"text":"那我覺得如果行政負擔造成他們的這種阻力的話那這個就沒有意義了所以第一個希望行政負擔可以減少那第二個就是你們有限制說新傳師每年只能申請兩次嘛然後每次最多就是四班"},{"start":4642.227,"end":4662.397,"text":"那也就是說如果他整個開滿全年的終點費大概就不到12萬那也沒有所謂的老健保更沒有是納入這個什麼退休金等等的所以他就是一個興趣然後也就是鼓勵的性質但是相關的制度沒有很健全那也沒有足夠的誘因這個是我希望你們可以檢討的"},{"start":4663.097,"end":4686.977,"text":"如果可以的話是不是就讓新船師可以讓他有更正式一點的職位或者是說給他們更多的這種保險上面的保障或者是相關的誘因要更強這個其實都可以考慮那再來另外一個就是年齡的問題因為我看了一下這個新船師3800多位裡面60歲以上的佔了2200人那大概是六成"},{"start":4688.369,"end":4702.039,"text":"那我擔心的就是那會不會有傳承的問題如果都是比較高齡的人願意去擔任新傳師那接下來你們想要做到這個世代傳承的語言的延續是不是就卡關了呢"},{"start":4703.284,"end":4725.074,"text":"感謝委員 委員所講的三個問題 確實都是我們面對的問題想要請政府單位發出針對幾個問題 再來研議看怎麼推進好 這個再拜託你們回去討論一下那希望之後可以認真看待這個結構性的困境好 謝謝主委感謝 感謝王委員謝謝 謝謝黃婕委員"},{"start":4732.582,"end":4760.941,"text":"呃接下來第五位是李貞秀女士李貞秀女士李貞秀女士好確定不在齁那我們請請廖先祥召委好謝謝主席喔那麻煩幫我要請谷主委還有宋董事長"},{"start":4768.84,"end":4790.445,"text":"兩位好抱歉今天這個請教一下就是最近有一些我們客委會或是我們基金會的一些投資的電影有一些輿論的討論我想先確認一下我們在決定要做電影出版的時候我們是怎麼樣來評估我們是要用補助的方式還是要用投資的方式來宣傳我們的客家文化"},{"start":4792.111,"end":4798.054,"text":"感謝趙薇的提問我們有一套制度 針對電影開發 劇本開發等等的方式各種方式都有可能"},{"start":4805.185,"end":4834.731,"text":"那你們怎麼樣子去因為現在大家可能之前有在討論到我們是不是透過基金會來超過我們一千萬補助的上限嘛那課委會有做說明我們是投資的所以說可能沒有這一千萬然後透過基金會過水的一個概念那大家才會想那會不會有這個假投資真補助的方式來繞過這一千萬的限制所以我才在今天來請教主委跟董事長我們怎麼判斷一個案子電影投資宣揚我們客家文化要用"},{"start":4835.451,"end":4846.784,"text":"補助還是投資有沒有一套機制我們最明確的分野點在哪邊還是說今天誰說了算我想這應該不是我們期待大家聽到的答案而是有沒有一套制度去做這樣子的一個決策感謝趙偉"},{"start":4851.789,"end":4876.049,"text":"我們客人會針對這個確實我們內部都非常的嚴謹會有一套的程序至於這個這麼巨額的到目前為止除了跟公共電視客家電視台合作以外目前是沒有那麼高的補助的方案在我們的系統裡頭那這一次的那個這支片子我們這個是客傳會"},{"start":4880.052,"end":4886.315,"text":"所製作的相關的那個機制要請客傳會來說明報告張委員我們在這個那張照片裡的我們這一案我們是用藝文採購案我們在客傳會這邊是並不是補助的那個方式用採購那民間有出資嗎"},{"start":4906.064,"end":4925.625,"text":"有有出資所以說我們這些採購案還包含了民間的出資對好那剛剛我講的如果說我們在評估這個要做客家這個影視的創作的時候這個案子會使用採購案的原因是因為他可能已經超過一千萬補助的上限所以我們改用採購案的方式來做執行是這樣的概念嗎"},{"start":4927.858,"end":4948.236,"text":"我們在客船會這邊完全沒有補助的機制我們是採投資的方式所以只要我們基金會所做的出版的電影都是採購的方式也就是投資的方式沒有補助的方式這件事情有跟客人討論過嗎"},{"start":4949.917,"end":4972.843,"text":"出品錢 有 客委會有沒有提出來這個可能有1000萬的這個1億希望我們去做多一點的論述避免大家剛剛講的是不是因為我們的錢應該大部分的經費都是來自於客委會的補助嘛對不對一年的經費大概應該有超過九成都是客委會的補助那大家就會懷疑是不是透過這個補助我們基金會的方式然後再用超過1000萬的額度來做補助雖然說你們是用這個採購但是對"},{"start":4978.764,"end":4993.712,"text":"國人來說就是政府出錢嘛你就是超過一千萬了有沒有規避辦法的這樣子的一個想法所以說你們在做這件事情有跟客委會這邊確認過嗎有沒有違反他們的一些補助的要點甚至是客委會自己本身的一些內規的規定"},{"start":4996.992,"end":5023.163,"text":"呃 這個都是合法的那個有沒有確認過啦 有沒有確認過 有確認過有跟客人確認過所以客人會認同我們這個基金會客傳基金會的這個這一次的採購案是好 所以有客人會的配書好 那我確認一下那我們既然是採購嘛那我們就是出品人那他是電影的這個出資嘛那我想確認一下我不是討論你們這個收益多少跟效益的問題啊我想確認一下那我們分論的機制大概是什麼樣子的"},{"start":5025.888,"end":5049.826,"text":"我們那個分論是在我們的那個約裡面是漢草文創他那邊是優先分論是那也就是說在投資的成本還沒有攤平之前我們是不會有任何的收益沒錯那我們的這個總投資的成本我們大概是5000萬吧是不是5565萬"},{"start":5052.527,"end":5074.875,"text":"5560那民間出資多少那總額大概是多少民間是3445萬三千多也就是說民間的這三千多萬還沒有收回去也就是說票房已經超過三千萬了因為這個電影院還是要有分類嘛對不對也就是說出品方沒有超過三千多萬的時候我們客委會的投資是完全沒有任何的收益回來了"},{"start":5075.495,"end":5095.014,"text":"到目前為止整個影片的製作8000多萬那如果說在這個票房這些的回收沒有到達這個製作成本這個時候就是說事實上是沒有我們就是說沒有沒有分論這個可能"},{"start":5096.295,"end":5122.448,"text":"對那一部分是分潤嘛那一部分是回本嘛對不對8000多萬那5000多萬是我們租3000多萬他們租也就是說他們3000多萬如果拿回來了拿的回去了那超過3000多萬的又會優先讓我們補足這5000多萬那超過了總投資了之後那才會依照契約去分潤嘛對不對那我們的契約分潤的一個精神大概是按照出資比例嗎還是有其他的另外的一個規定"},{"start":5124.278,"end":5142.752,"text":"按照出資比例我想國人也是會認為說補助跟投資它其實是兩個不一樣的概念補助的精神其實補助我們很難去評估它的一個成效可能客戶會平常在做很多的一些補助案的時候我們很難去用它"},{"start":5143.633,"end":5156.538,"text":"到底有畢竟這種它是一個精神的一個概念它不是只用單一的金錢的這個指標去衡量的所以說一般來說很少會去質疑補助的一個它的正當性但是當投資的時候"},{"start":5157.93,"end":5185.711,"text":"就是跟補助不一樣了投資有賺有賠嘛 申購前應該詳細公開說明書嘛那我們投資方也會考慮一下我們的收益那你們當初在做投資的時候有沒有做過收益這方面的評估有沒有做票房的預估 那跟我們當初的評估有沒有產生多大的落差當時是有票房的預估 但事實上是沒有達到那我們當初的預估大概是怎樣的一個規模"},{"start":5188.365,"end":5210.074,"text":"可能就是說大概在類似五千萬這樣子五千萬左右所以說雖然說沒辦法回本但是它具有這個傳播客家精神的一個概念所以說我們還是願意去投資嘛好啦那我就覺得可能當初在做決策的時候為什麼會產生這麼大的一個落差那或許是我們基金會為了要去做檢討的"},{"start":5212.615,"end":5229.005,"text":"如果是補助就不會有後面這些問題了但如果是投資那我們立法院就絕對會來對財務的部分來多加的琢磨那也希望說不管是客委會因為你們也是這個錢都是你們補助來的嘛那我們基金會未來都能夠對相關的投資案有一個更為嚴謹的一個"},{"start":5231.007,"end":5250.767,"text":"審查的一個流程啦希望說不可能100%的準確嘛這個影音市場有很多變化性但是這個落差太大了會引起大家的質疑就希望說未來大家可能在題材的多元性上面你也知道我們在黨長期質疑我們現在的民進黨政府在電影補助或投資的多元性上面是不足的那是不是"},{"start":5251.387,"end":5261.06,"text":"因為多元訊不足的問題導致受眾沒有辦法那麼的廣況也沒有辦法那麼的完美的去散播我們客家的精神我覺得是我們值得去後續去檢討的好不好 以上麻煩主委跟我們董事長謝謝"},{"start":5284.87,"end":5288.755,"text":"主席 每一位同仁 請我們客委會我們的股主委"},{"start":5296.017,"end":5311.944,"text":"目前我們客委會尤其在過年的時候都會來舉辦收東西本席這邊看了這幾年我們所舉辦的這個成效倒是反應都還蠻熱烈"},{"start":5314.565,"end":5321.953,"text":"那尤其我們直年的增加的我們的預算包括109年我們500多萬113年增加到一倍就1100多萬那114年是增加逐年的增加將近1500萬"},{"start":5335.208,"end":5360.116,"text":"那可見說這個說東西代表說這是我們客家的文化那我們現在在客家要推動的就是我們的文化文化的傳承還有我們的客家的語言那我們可以借重這個戲劇來宣傳我們的語言讓我們年輕的一輩尤其小朋友他們能去接觸"},{"start":5360.956,"end":5384.065,"text":"那你要靠的我們的細劑這效果倒是都不錯那本席在這邊所講的因為在我的選區土層有24萬人口那我們客家族群有將近5萬多個那5萬多個他比例算是非常高那是不是拜託主委我講這應該你很清楚吧"},{"start":5385.305,"end":5407.474,"text":"是不是有機會尤其在過年的時候大家都比較喜歡我們說東西就是表示過年的時候大家農作物都收成就是在那裡慶祝是不是我們今年有機會邀請我們來土城演藝場"},{"start":5408.667,"end":5435.21,"text":"感謝吳議員 感謝六位優先的考慮地區沒問題啦 六位優先是沒問題好 那在這邊我代表土城人也感謝你啦因為土城的客家客家的租賃有五萬多人所以五萬多人我們在宣傳上效果應該都是不錯啦在這邊我也特別感謝我們的主委那尤其"},{"start":5438.509,"end":5464.981,"text":"我們過去所演的一些歷史的電影雖然說我們投入了金額跟我們所收益的這個金額的差距但是我們這是一個歷史一個文化這是我們當然又不注重在賺錢的方面我們就是要讓我們的文化下一傳承那本身是非常認同"},{"start":5466.081,"end":5478.198,"text":"那未來我們要怎樣去推動我看啊在去年啊我看我們客委會所舉辦的演唱會演唱會"},{"start":5479.505,"end":5500.013,"text":"才能響應更多的我們不管是我們客家人也好啦民眾也好這個族群絕對會會比較大吧因為我們要演就是要人多嘛讓我們的歷史讓我們的文化都可以下去傳承嘛那我看喔像我們上一次喔"},{"start":5500.633,"end":5525.589,"text":"包括田馥甄、江美琪、林曉培這些歌手倒是滿受我們客家族群他們的歡迎度都非常高所以我看未來我們還是要除息的潮這個方面下一推動比電影成本然後我們這個歌手要參差一些歌手這樣應該效果會更好"},{"start":5526.65,"end":5541.507,"text":"這是本席的建議啦感謝美燕 像客人會 合理費 針對多元形式的入出客家的議題 也要英國的 就不同的形式"},{"start":5542.848,"end":5558.012,"text":"講到《野愛天洋》這一部電影那張照片我們坦白說我們也很不滿意啦就是這樣的票房以及內容沒有那麼直接的直指這個歷史的事件我們是相當的不滿意"},{"start":5562.133,"end":5569.517,"text":"但是我們不能因為這樣子而就不去探討客家的歷史、事件、議題、社會議題等等的這個確是我們客委會的職責所在故事我們要嚴謹地回頭來嚴謹地檢討到底這過程當中應該可以改進些什麼這是我們責無旁貸的責任"},{"start":5587.868,"end":5606.979,"text":"就如同委員說的影視或者是出版品或者是戲劇等等的各種表現的形式都是我們所能夠認同的以及推展的方式我們不會把一個單一的來投入而已"},{"start":5607.879,"end":5629.693,"text":"好 謝謝因為我看那個電影我們所投資的就五千多萬嘛那收益有九百多萬啦那嫌失也是有過大啦那為了不讓外面的疑慮是我們該檢討我們還是要檢討是我們該檢討是不滿意是因為這歷史文化我絕對都支持我們課委會啦是好 謝謝感謝理事長好 謝謝謝謝胡啟明委員 謝謝"},{"start":5651.701,"end":5667.292,"text":"好,那我們先來請我們的召委,李博義委員好,謝謝,有請谷主委跟宋董事長好,請谷主委跟宋董事長"},{"start":5671.637,"end":5682.541,"text":"好謝謝主委跟主委這邊追蹤一下我在上一次在去年10月15號就針對客家幣使用的情形來提出質詢"},{"start":5684.861,"end":5705.621,"text":"我包含我主張擴大發放對象那我主張避免數位落差那我也主張希望如果這些兒童沒有金融卡有要擴大使用要怎麼樣克服這些障礙那我看到今年客家幣的這個實施包含所有這個你剛剛有"},{"start":5707.543,"end":5725.392,"text":"回答其他委員的問題有說有所有有學課語的這些有課程的這些小朋友都有這個資格了嘛那我覺得這個是很好的我今天要跟主委討論這個政策的內容是說很可惜啦這個是去年度的預算嘛"},{"start":5726.397,"end":5735.567,"text":"那去年度的預算我們如果說執行的很好我們今年到現在3月的3月為止是執行你剛說的1.3億執行率60%"},{"start":5739.827,"end":5756.424,"text":"那有機會今年是可以執行率達標是達到我們完全執行完我們的預算那執行完我們的預算呢其實就是在推廣這個課宇的使用這也是課委會最重要的工作之一"},{"start":5757.665,"end":5780.678,"text":"那很遺憾沒有辦法增加的話那如果可以增加的話主委你想要做什麼做什麼樣更推廣更多人來使用客家幣那更多人來用課與消費等等的這些文化來主委你有沒有什麼想法還是說預算沒有過沿用去年的我們就繼續這樣做就好了"},{"start":5781.598,"end":5802.537,"text":"感謝美燕今年2.0增加課與學習的學生的使用光是這樣子光是這樣子就吃掉我們所有的預算這我們非常肯定對 但是我們就沒有機會再開放給"},{"start":5804.933,"end":5831.821,"text":"這就需要新興計劃嘛沒有多的新興計劃就沒有機會嘛今天送過來如果立法院不審你們就沒有機會增加嘛我的同仁也很傷腦筋我一直說18歲以上的非客級的也有機會來我的同仁都說沒有預算沒有錢這樣所以這是比較可惜的地方"},{"start":5832.321,"end":5856.109,"text":"每個委員尤其是有選區的委員或者是代表客家族群的委員其實都很希望這些相關的經費可以增加可以推廣包含客語的使用包含這些海外的我們的客家族群的一些你們今年有在巴西有舉辦的這個活動那包含這個博工的照護站"},{"start":5856.789,"end":5867.664,"text":"那包含你們也跟子豐車合作在地方做這個課宇的推廣的演出那包含其他我今天剛剛請這個董事長上來就是要講戲劇方面"},{"start":5870.242,"end":5887.198,"text":"其實戲劇也不能完全用這個收潤或者是票房來衡量我覺得該投資客與環境該投資或者是客與戲劇相關的這些內容我覺得我們還是要"},{"start":5888.479,"end":5910.969,"text":"不要怕失敗還是要有價值的對客語推廣或者是客家文化有價值相關的戲劇我覺得我還是鼓勵我們客委會跟我們基金會要持續的來投入來請董事長來做一個回應我剛剛看到你看料子怎麼會怕看到賠錢好像會怕但是這次就是要推廣推廣就是要花錢"},{"start":5914.182,"end":5935.074,"text":"謝謝張偉的提點事實上一部影片的話就是沒有辦法說完全只用票房來決定它的價值它在於這個文化的面向在歷史的面向還有在人民情感人民的記憶的這個面向是有很多的"},{"start":5936.254,"end":5963.827,"text":"這些不能用這個票房的價錢去運算的這些的價值董事長你現在就講得很好啊謝謝主委我的選區齁其實有大量的過去海軍的這個眷村那海軍的眷村他移走了之後呢我們過去我曾經在高雄市政府的時候那也跟高雄市政府文化局"},{"start":5964.747,"end":5981.023,"text":"那也跟國防部還有中央文化部,費了好大一番功夫把這個眷村保留下來,做眷村文化保留園區保留的是什麼?保留的不是只有眷村那一個殼,保留的是眷村的文化"},{"start":5981.789,"end":6005.932,"text":"那我們客委會現在做的很重要的事情除了保留剛剛主委講的要讓客語的使用率止跌之外我覺得這個客家文化的保存還有包含你在推廣這些商店的客語消費這個客家文化的保存是非常非常值得我們再投入更多的心力讓"},{"start":6007.874,"end":6036.412,"text":"客委會讓所有的客家文化不管是語言或者是剛講的戲劇這些都可以不斷的來推廣主委還是期許主委這邊可以做更多的這些推廣即使我們目前的經費很遺憾就是只能沿用去年的計畫沒有新的計畫可以使用在只有去年的這些計畫可以使用的話我還是希望主委可以提出如果有機會我們客委會還希望可以做什麼"},{"start":6038.454,"end":6059.961,"text":"感謝委員我們想要做的事很多好 有沒有新的計畫你可以在這邊講一下我們來跟所有全國的客家鄉親所有全國的人民來爭取旁觀前陣子有實驗 還有實驗提到的語言的部分那語言的部分就還有很多可以做"},{"start":6060.461,"end":6087.048,"text":"那這些都牽涉到預算比如說我比如說很多小孩子下課了之後送安親班學課語是我們目前已經在推動的那到家裡之前的安親班是不是我們也可以介入呢因為透過語言的傳遞讓這個非常好就是類似"},{"start":6090.058,"end":6112.997,"text":"長輩去博工造戶站小朋友上學的小朋友他下課有一個課餘的安心環境沒錯沒錯沒錯而這個都需要經費要有經費才能做到都需要經費我們共同來努力是謝謝感謝你好謝謝我們李博義召委的執行謝謝那我們下一位林愛琴林愛琴委員好"},{"start":6126.636,"end":6127.757,"text":"我非常肯定這兩個政策的進行,但我認為"},{"start":6145.852,"end":6174.541,"text":"這兩個政策應該是從規模的擴張走向我們的實質的深化首先我要肯定 科委會這幾年的努力包括財富戰確實做出規模不過今年3月已經增加到611站特別是在苗栗 桃園 新竹這幾個客家的重點區那個網路也非常的密科委會也持續我們擴張高齡照顧的場域值得認同可是我要特別提醒主委"},{"start":6175.541,"end":6203.424,"text":"包含這副站已經不是一個事半的階段而是正式納入到長照3.0的核心政策當規模做到後我們必須面對兩個嚴肅的問題一個是實際的照顧的人數二是那個預算被稀釋所以主委站點在擴張可是每個站分配的資源在縮水如何確保這611站的服務品質不被稀釋而不是被淪為西極巷弄的一個長照站多掛一個牌子而已"},{"start":6205.576,"end":6223.808,"text":"對 那個高設計的問題 我們知道我們的預算規模 比就是這麼大我們希望照顧到所有 做到就省錢 省錢要賺錢那就只好真的是把預算給降低 那是很務實的那不然我們就會減少站點"},{"start":6226.121,"end":6254.621,"text":"這個是很兩難的決策主委站點要夠淺才有辦法做到一定的規模所以外界常有疑慮認為博工照護站跟衛福部的西級的長照站高度重疊雖然地方回應有增加課宇的志工老幼共學等元素可是我們還是要講清楚博工照護站究竟只是文化加值的據點還是在高齡支持體系中"},{"start":6255.066,"end":6283.76,"text":"有補上的其他部會做不到的哪些不可替代的一個功能先跟VM報告我們博工照護站還是要架構在衛福部西級相當據點之上有這個基本我們才有才能夠來申請這是第一個第二個是我們英文這語言是很有魔力很有魅力很有溫暖的"},{"start":6284.7,"end":6303.539,"text":"那這個語言是長輩習慣的語言那通常那個人是用他要學會、他熟悉的語言他的那個信任感、他的各種的會增加很多所以你意思是說 白宮政府在老實際點沒有強調那是英文語言"},{"start":6305.202,"end":6317.37,"text":"以你責任的責任的方式我們看到目前市集相當照顧站比如說我們今年試著要將繪本導入這個照顧的方式所以用紙本、用合法、用紙紙的、紙錄的責任責任責任的責任"},{"start":6334.242,"end":6361.407,"text":"也有一個自主性那個自主的可能所以也要讓另外一個人在學科部分做到抵押上來的希望就是也要提出三個具體的要求一個月內事實上希望主委這邊可以提交功能深化跟品質的精進報告因為我覺得還是要去做一些區隔"},{"start":6362.847,"end":6386.515,"text":"主委剛剛講說有些語言的功能我們還是希望能夠在如何補助在受壓縮的狀況下如果達成2026的服務人數的目標還有我覺得還是要去釐清跨部會的協力機制否則這兩個人家會分不太清楚還有預算的指標的轉型就是說不是只有我們的站點數而且要增列到底服務的總人數跟資源不足的補強的"},{"start":6387.725,"end":6415.532,"text":"主要的那個成果是什麼再來我們就要來問客家幣因為我覺得這也事實上是做得不錯的地方因為客委會推客家幣的那個方向我認為事實上是有政策上的一個意義在不僅鼓勵到我們的客語的傳承也為了那個活絡客庄的一個經濟可是有兩個目標的情況下我覺得下一步是不是要更要把這個政策的那個排序講得清楚所以想問主委客家幣已經進入到2.0階段了"},{"start":6417.202,"end":6443.496,"text":"在講客生活圈的這個大方向下哪些語言傳承的核心設計哪些是店家上線支付工具跟核銷系統的配套工作感謝美燕其實它在2.0還有它再提出的因為1.0它是具有稅籍的店家才可以申請但是2.0加入自然人"},{"start":6443.916,"end":6448.257,"text":"也會這樣,因為我們看到在學生上,不只是傳統的市場,還會有自然人在做交易所以我們應該拿進來,擴大講課的範圍和交易範圍,所以部分很不一樣的"},{"start":6469.942,"end":6485.184,"text":"所以要提到地推人員因為我們要讓自然人進來自然人會懷疑你是不是詐騙集團所以我們要透過在地熟悉的網路地推人員去宣導這個不是"},{"start":6486.365,"end":6511.672,"text":"然後來協助鄉村、學總、學總提起要數位能力支付比較差的長輩而且他又是所謂的商店方的人主委可是你今年也提到未來客家幣可能朝開放全年齡逐步放寬店家範圍就不再限定客庄的店家的方向"},{"start":6512.199,"end":6533.492,"text":"我覺得這個政策延伸真的要去討論因為我也諮詢那個課委會這個做法未來能不能守住把人帶進那個課專讓課宇進入到日常生活的原始設計當政策往全零的時候非課專的店家擴大時那主委說明一下如何守住原本對課專的重點支持"},{"start":6534.729,"end":6545.942,"text":"客庄還是比較有大比例 擴大比例會使用合法 擴大比例在都市還是更少 所以我們評估在各種地方的點和營業 還是會更多因為時間關係"},{"start":6555.027,"end":6576.985,"text":"請我們注意來下一頁就是是不是針對客家幣2.0我大概提出四個要求就是一樣就是在1.0結束的一個月內是不是能夠提交檢討跟2.0的設計的對照報告還有我就要公佈我們的查核標準因為這是上路前應該明文規定一個你的密客的查核機制對方到底有沒有講客家法"},{"start":6579.175,"end":6604.193,"text":"然後指標的獨立的拆分就是說把下一年度的預算當中把績效那個強制拆分為語言傳承的指標跟客庄的經濟指標不要混淆視聽還要釐清我們的工具的分工就客家幣跟客庄的產業價值的補助的一個角色跟排序跟分工好 感謝 感謝 感謝別人謝謝 謝謝 謝謝林月琴委員"},{"start":6606.347,"end":6634.426,"text":"接下來我們請徐富奎 欸對不起接下來請鄭振前委員 鄭振前委員 鄭振前委員不在蘇巧慧委員 蘇巧慧委員 蘇巧慧委員提書面質詢何新淳委員 何新淳委員 何新淳委員不在林楚英委員 林楚英委員 林楚英委員不在接下來我們請徐富奎委員"},{"start":6637.557,"end":6638.617,"text":"許議員 請質詢感謝主席 有請顧主委市議員"},{"start":6650.906,"end":6657.714,"text":"主委我們要請松仗業在屏東県拜面感謝六隊運動會還有朱天義站跟佛通法院的主委請指揮屏東的六隊來跟我們加油不過有機的問題"},{"start":6672.073,"end":6692.466,"text":"還是要請主席提出,主席我相信這個客家幣1.0的政策,像你搬到東亞門,我們的消費金額都一億啦,我們要請各位同仁,當然我們看到各位同仁給予的量額的績效,給予的成果,今天有打算推2.0的版本嗎?"},{"start":6693.9,"end":6710.857,"text":"有,我們也在目前體驗進行當中,在做目的地上好,我看到您的報告有寫說,我們要發放的對象只要由我們受到合格的中科學生和老師中科的內容"},{"start":6712.037,"end":6718.601,"text":"目前有擴大到這樣 本來還是有維持通過向年齡層向年齡層向年家庭對象以外學學法 參與學校課程 學生都可以利用"},{"start":6730.772,"end":6748.15,"text":"主委我記得我宋白的委員會我曾經討論過一個問題已經延萬年推的那個客家認證的那個政策規劃我們看到很多學生的 生人的 總得有靠那個思想 同時有那個獎勵但是我們看到靠思靠學的"},{"start":6749.331,"end":6770.318,"text":"實際上在人們的生活的面向 雙口味面向 讓他們說合法的記載 記載過程又沒有改動我們想這個政策是不是有點 沒有很弱勢 因為時刻有這個問題 主委有什麼看法嗎也不算啦 通過認證跟要用合法去交通的事情 那沒有按摩的關係"},{"start":6771.738,"end":6781.387,"text":"但是認真去待本生育的也要學習要認一個英雄的藝術的榮耀的方式所以我們透過過度的鑑託 比如說過度的創作包括養生的創作 戲劇的創作等等來鼓勵使用學法 因為像學生比那個"},{"start":6794.278,"end":6797.141,"text":"媒介就不應該跟那些說客的商店對話所以其實我們都想要用的方法就是本人有機會說客一件事情"},{"start":6810.592,"end":6828.72,"text":"主要是提醒他們的提防如果說政策推動改善但是我們希望透過推動核加幣政策2.0使本人的生育和種批有更多機會更好、更健康讓他們的好家文化傳承、意涵存在"},{"start":6829.5,"end":6843.794,"text":"主要是因為祖父可能會思考於他不是變成像你前兩年發的阿頓的客家傳承沒有幫助到沒差的這件事希望我提醒你提防"},{"start":6844.795,"end":6849.478,"text":"今天我想感謝我們的主委我們屏東的文化發電機的政策改善後補完充值萬萬女僕的古書和神秘我們的圖書館我們想要空間改造我們將樂觀啟程屏東的六堆文化的核心"},{"start":6863.527,"end":6875.743,"text":"地帶,我們想不是只有硬體建設做好如何的,也就是軟體的用於未來怎麼樣強化甚至本業的老人家、生育的、學生的,用於使用圖書館,主要有什麼看法嗎?"},{"start":6878.204,"end":6881.125,"text":"目前黑格斯已經辦公在圖書館我們會贊出有關核桿的書籍在圖書館裡邊我們會有核發工具師顧慮提供資訊 提圖書館"},{"start":6899.394,"end":6906.505,"text":"鼓勵大家去審慎經濟還有行業公司營業、公共公司營業日報、圖書館用合法來講解公司所以沒錯,我們提供的能力也要用來提升"},{"start":6914.182,"end":6919.008,"text":"主委,我實際上在徒手間,未來針對現代學生的一等於一百塊,家屬的比例,應該要做一些調查。其實我可以說,這個做法,他要給我們講,一定壓力啦。"},{"start":6929.881,"end":6936.325,"text":"鄉長或館長其實應該有責任,譬如台灣主委說的,我們重用補助金幣判罰通,但是我們嚴重要求他再重視那一塊,但是我們鄉鎮一定要加油,主委要再考慮,譬如天書嗎?絕對,我們一不用詞,譬如天書提供說,感染閱讀的習慣要避免"},{"start":6952.481,"end":6971.921,"text":"我們想事件改變,因為我們在客房中心,謝主任也在現場謝主任昨天早上說他對核瓦文化重視,還有六堆文化園區,我們想都有一些例行的活動攀,但是主任有什麼想法?"},{"start":6973.627,"end":6980.972,"text":"好像每一年應該要推陳促進,要發明不窮的東西,你也想辦法嗎?陸隊的發言期,之前陸隊的講,是講改革法,我們用陸隊來連結如果不在鄉鎮,我們用來連結"},{"start":6990.097,"end":7007.357,"text":"施主啊,當然,因為這樣可以被吸引入來嘛,這樣就被了解黑家文化,都要去研究的,當然,入對黑家的團體,那可以入入在北部研究,會帶動黑家的入入入對文化研究的方式啦。"},{"start":7008.558,"end":7016.283,"text":"平常是這樣辦法通,法通要有陸續的團體去保養可能對陸續的環境發展會有幫助我拜託主委一件事情,其實園區當然法通很重要,但是希望法律鄉鎮應該要行處理,要辦法律鄉鎮有盲窮用的法通比如說我們宣布客家傳播基金會,也有針對我們的"},{"start":7037.125,"end":7056.34,"text":"不用去聽人家的說話,還要給佛陀佛陀去錄影,讓佛陀佛好安寧,讓佛陀佛入天地圓圓的形態還要培植我們的聚團,不用去開天堂做表演主委要支持這樣嗎?我們願意來,主委支持我們在時代下,有什麼想法,我們跟主委討論一下,拜託謝主,我們就聽主委感謝,感謝市委"},{"start":7066.933,"end":7081.28,"text":"謝謝許富奎委員接下來我們請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在我們請林倩琦委員林倩琦委員林倩琦委員不在我們請王洪輝委員好謝謝主謝謝我們主席啊我請我們的谷主委"},{"start":7099.434,"end":7109.401,"text":"主委好剛才很多的委員都提到我們的客家幣我們的客家幣是主要是我們"},{"start":7117.987,"end":7139.782,"text":"所以我們這一次的客家幣跟過去的客庄券它有一些不一樣主要它其中除了希望能夠振興我們客庄的經濟消費之外還有一個就是要去推廣讓更多的人能夠去講客家話沒有錯吧好"},{"start":7142.043,"end":7162.569,"text":"但是我想這次的這個客家幣因為它有一些特約商店我去查了一下我必須要講就說我查了一下在整個的客家幣它的特約商店裡面我們的雙北並沒有特約商店雙北沒有特約商店那我覺得這是非常遺憾的事情"},{"start":7163.169,"end":7166.093,"text":"因為雖然我們知道比如說像新竹、苗栗、桃園有很多客家莊但是在雙北地區客家人口的排行其實是很多的"},{"start":7179.15,"end":7206.142,"text":"這個我想主委也知道一定很清楚所以像新北市在我們各縣市裡面我們新北市是排名第二佔16.7%我們台北市也排名第四佔17.4%所以呢如果以新北跟台北雙北啊他大概有36%的客家人口之多那同樣的我相信我們在這一次的如果透過客家幣除了要這個這個"},{"start":7208.683,"end":7237.299,"text":"這個振興消費之外還有一個就是能夠讓更多的人口能夠接觸客家化來講客家話那麼但是雙北沒有是不是就我覺得就是美中不足的地方所以在這邊我是不是也可以具體的來爭取雖然已經這個就是他的時間已經有一段時間是不是可以來爭取就是像這個雙北地區他也有很多的客家人口"},{"start":7238.422,"end":7247.306,"text":"好 感謝榮議員 確實在1點我們沒有開封讀詞提起 只提到學種提起以我們同道各道的聲音也許議員提出來 在雙北地區我們2.0 今年也許開示在那裡2.0開封全台灣的選項 但是最主要還是要外公學的選項 正是要用學法來"},{"start":7266.675,"end":7272.82,"text":"稍微他的交易的語言一樣會捏到當然的那些特約商店"},{"start":7274.279,"end":7302.833,"text":"我想我剛才講其實因為雙北它有也有非常多的客家人口那其實我們在一些大眾運輸我們也都一定這個客家化也一定是這個必備的那所以如果說未來就是各縣市能夠特約商店能夠推廣到各縣市我們絕對是樂見而我本身至少台北市我也幫這個雙北地區一起請命因為我們是一日生活圈一日的通行圈"},{"start":7303.513,"end":7309.819,"text":"那另外就是我們現在客家幣的這個政策預估是說可以創造4.6億元的產值這個是當時我們客委會所做的這個報告但是如果你去看過去的客庄旅遊券那這個是這個"},{"start":7323.371,"end":7331.994,"text":"中央政府總預算裡面所提到的就是別說客庄留卷的1.0 2.0他的經費一共是3.5億元一共3.5億元那他帶動的民間消費金額達到23億元所以如果兩相比較的話"},{"start":7342.777,"end":7362.097,"text":"那麼看起來恐怕我們客家幣所要創造的產值就要再加一把勁就要再加一把勁因為也許就說過去當然也是因為疫情的關係它是因為疫情的關係才開始出現的客裝券所以這一部分希望就是能夠更為加強好不好"},{"start":7363.619,"end":7367.021,"text":"時間暫停一下 謝謝主委我請客家電視台台長主委可以請回座 謝謝"},{"start":7399.147,"end":7417.553,"text":"我要特別講一下就是客家廚房這個節目我們所看到其實在我們很多的政府的宣傳裡面客家廚房算是比較成功的他討論度也很高然後他的這個就是也得了不少獎"},{"start":7419.073,"end":7428.903,"text":"那我想直接先請教 因為有第一季第二季請問一下 那客家廚房有沒有規劃進行第三季的製播"},{"start":7430.461,"end":7449.937,"text":"首先想問VN的肯定非常感謝委員的肯定因為你那些學校天使隊第一輩有台灣的學校從以前過去跟他自己說香港不論做天洋還是做一流戲都做得很好故事我就是希望說像台灣學校"},{"start":7451.618,"end":7454.181,"text":"包括文化的內容、食材、其他東西,都在韓國提供電視機、電視機、電視機、電視機、電視機、電視機、電視機"},{"start":7468.034,"end":7485.428,"text":"就像馬來西亞的Astro在亞洲方面也在建模同時同促前期希望有機會做T3軌但若是說NVIDIA前十年在地獨與東東韓國的民生要看其中的動機和其中那些亞洲岸的營業持續向台灣的黑客添輸的合作不過這會成為我們技術大變的目標"},{"start":7492.87,"end":7519.68,"text":"我必須要講就是說事實上我們作為監督者這個民意代表如果政府單位有做到好的地方我們也應該要拍拍手的但是我們就是會做一個強力的監督那因為我覺得客家廚房它是在我們很多你今天看各部會的這個相關的行銷它算是成功的案例它真的是成功的案例所以第一個第三季你可能有一些就是你要看到檔期的問題"},{"start":7520.6,"end":7530.364,"text":"那另外呢因為我們剛剛特別提到就是有關於我們的客家的旅遊美食還有我們客家莊的消費怎麼樣創生客家等等那這個節目呢當然因為它是一個實境秀因為它也到韓國去拍攝它會變成是說把這個我們的這個客家廚房客家美食把它帶到了一個國際性的討論而且因為它用實境秀的方式現在實境秀非常非常的紅嘛"},{"start":7550.151,"end":7575.248,"text":"年輕人非常容易接受所以我覺得也可以利用像這樣子的一個手法這樣的一個成功案例去把它進一步的去推展到有關旅遊啦或是其他我們相關的商圈或客家莊的經濟好不好那我覺得這一點我覺得我們該肯定的也一定會肯定然後我們也基本上樂見有第三季的這個呈現好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":7581.396,"end":7606.266,"text":"謝謝王宏威委員接下來我們請徐欣盈委員質詢謝謝謝謝主席 本席有請谷主委主委好 您好主委好 首先我請問您"},{"start":7610.427,"end":7626.201,"text":"聽完王委員說講話,我講話,妳要推動台價講話會,妳感覺妳要推動的成效怎麼辦?我知道我要動家有,還要很加油。還要很加油,我看到"},{"start":7629.569,"end":7634.491,"text":"那我們看到好像特優有縣市政府拿過特優嗎有有苗栗縣喔幾十年喔有拿到苗栗我現在說的是特優有嗎"},{"start":7658.766,"end":7660.227,"text":"所以縣市都沒有人拿過特優"},{"start":7685.697,"end":7711.916,"text":"沒有嘛,我問的原來縣市和蒙古人怎麼有特優啊那我有看到苗栗縣,苗栗縣有拿過優等然後再來都是加等嘛,都是加等所以我們看到我們這個課宇的推廣我們符合我們課委會的標準的其實縣市不多,就是縣市不多但是我的問題"},{"start":7712.777,"end":7720.966,"text":"能不能突然間你們對於這個客家委員會推動客語為通行語的成效平和及獎勵作業要點"},{"start":7723.015,"end":7744.713,"text":"突然改變他的這種審核標準,這也要年齡,主婦你懂嗎?不懂這是為什麼呢?因為裡面有很多的指標,多項的指標那些指標真的可以對應到鼓勵大眾來說客語這件事情"},{"start":7745.333,"end":7766.558,"text":"所以過去的指標通常都是在縣市公所裡頭的人員我們現在有一部分的指標把它拿到那現在就是說原本可能6000名突破就可以拿到優等那你現在"},{"start":7767.728,"end":7782.764,"text":"能夠突破六千人的縣市就不多了你又把標準提高到一萬三這個對於在努力推廣客家化的縣市會很大的挫折因為你看你推廣"},{"start":7784.125,"end":7810.743,"text":"就好比說老師說我們請大家要努力考到60分以上最好還有80分結果60分的就很少了你現在呢及格60分就很少了你現在把及格又變又提高到75分那大家都不想好好念書啦好 我就兩位特別要說啊我們新竹縣政府啊我們新竹縣政府該"},{"start":7812.384,"end":7826.26,"text":"推動客家不遺餘力所以我們新竹縣是客家人口比例全國最高我們總人數不多所以人數"},{"start":7827.701,"end":7852.333,"text":"跟其他縣市比不贏包括直轄市嘛但我們人口比例最高所以在新竹縣客家化各方面我們推動起來我們很希望是把這個客家文化好好的推廣跟傳承而且也是一個很值得也一定會有好成績的一個縣市嘛 對不對那所以縣政府在過去它的預算從346萬"},{"start":7854.834,"end":7870.726,"text":"他自己縣政府編預算在做客家的事編到6370萬英語才化法國還有縣市多了很多的預算才化法國才幾個月而已今年才到4月而已公教認證人數也從560人提升到了3370人"},{"start":7875.629,"end":7893.029,"text":"那學生認證的從只有327也提升到3584人那社區的課程也從兩班變成292班你看都是幾十倍的成長結果他們很努力想要往優等來爭取"},{"start":7895.772,"end":7916.082,"text":"那已經快接近了 你就突然把六千人的優等你又提高到一萬三 這對地方很大的打擊所以我要問 你們為什麼突然提高 有什麼充分的理由因為你整個的推廣 就推廣得不好 然後個縣市也很難達到"},{"start":7917.883,"end":7941.42,"text":"那你現在又把標準提高,你這在打擊地方啊沒有這樣啦,我們的設想都不是打擊,都是要有一個目標本來要朝向啦你現在六千人就已經不多了,你知道優等一直都只有苗栗縣,六千人那你現在又突然把六千優等改到一萬三,我不知道"},{"start":7942.894,"end":7948.96,"text":"我們二十幾個縣市現在我請教主委二十幾個縣市拿過優等的你跟我講"},{"start":7950.115,"end":7978.117,"text":"沒有得到的 我知道沒有幾個就是苗栗而已結果你只有一個苗栗然後我們應該是想辦法讓更多縣市它達到這個程度啊新竹縣這麼努力 結果被澆冷水萊迪委員是在為新竹縣請命其實應該說我們是為努力的請命那你看其他縣市它連優等甚至加等都沒有的"},{"start":7978.757,"end":7997.101,"text":"他根本不會想甩你他根本客家話他就不會想努力去做難免回頭來再來檢討看看所以本席真的要請你們第一個你如果要改我是看不到你們音樂也講不出來你為什麼要突然這樣改"},{"start":7998.847,"end":8017.409,"text":"那你突然改你沒有任何理由而且你前面定的標準不是說前面定的標準大家都達到全部都等於你一個階段一個階段大家都上岸了你再往下一個階段不是沒有人跟得上你的腳步你就繼續往上哇這個很打擊地方"},{"start":8019.071,"end":8044.96,"text":"因為行業通行業已經六年了六年一個整個階段我就問這六年這六年你優等有誰你現在馬上跟我說這六年只有苗栗縣政府你六年來只有一個縣市達到優等然後你現在就一直把標準提高你應該要想著六年只有一個那你要怎麼再去鼓勵更多人達到優等"},{"start":8046.821,"end":8051.065,"text":"我相信大家聽完一定認同所以現在就是說 有點像只有一個優等生其他學生你要讓他跟上啊我們一般30個人 我還有20幾個都跟不上"},{"start":8073.242,"end":8090.526,"text":"有一兩個或兩三個他在努力跟的時候你教他冷水其實這個政策這樣做真的太打擊地方了最後不好意思我再用一點時間就是我們推廣客家文化"},{"start":8091.606,"end":8119.529,"text":"我們希望有更多生活的活動 生活的推廣方式我們也想建議我們客委會 譬如說在生活中我們是不是辦一些野餐音樂會既然在那裡放一些善歌 客家歌謠還有客家流行音樂 然後又可以吃著我們的客家美食"},{"start":8120.509,"end":8149.449,"text":"類似這種讓大家在生活中可以來體會感受客家文化那這種活動是不是我們可以多鼓勵甚至我們有一些專案給各縣市他們可以來做來申請這個是第一個那再來就是我們振興我們客家的一些產業的部分是不是客會也可以多輔導我們有一些"},{"start":8154.254,"end":8169.872,"text":"可能一般人會覺得那個是有的時候比較感覺是鄉下人吃的可是你稍微包裝以後大家覺得又好吃然後又想吃像這個部分客會是不是可以積極的來做我想我再加問這個問題"},{"start":8171.534,"end":8194.473,"text":"感謝委員 您給的建議我們都跟持開放的態度討論形成一個政策跟提防政府和民間沙灘合作的推動委員的建議我們領域參考對啊 因為香港政府有很多的建議我們做的群眾辦的"},{"start":8197.355,"end":8221.747,"text":"分配一下那怎麼樣在我們課語的推廣更生活化這樣子來落實除了你看你考試你已經讓人家努力考試你都讓他很挫折那你給一些生活一點的讓更多人我們是希望包含不是客家人他們都很願意來講客家人你看剛剛王洪威委員說得動作我要說我也要說"},{"start":8224.528,"end":8225.569,"text":"登記諮詢委員除不在場者其餘均與諮詢完畢"},{"start":8252.677,"end":8280.011,"text":"委員蘇巧慧、邱振軍、徐欣盈、丁學忠所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報另外李貞秀女士提出書面行政院可以不必答覆書面質詢跟未答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會本次會議到此結束現在散會"},{"start":8287.557,"end":8288.281,"text":"結束了"}]}},{"id":"168094","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168094","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c5b91be57e7b54086bd67b93b5004dc024047e563c2ae160911b1cec9fb31ec975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"10:19:28 - 10:31:41","影片長度":"00:12:13","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:19:28+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:31:41+08:00","duration":733,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.734718750000001,"end":7.624718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.995968750000001,"end":8.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.560343750000001,"end":15.032843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.640343750000003,"end":16.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.04096875,"end":24.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.78659375,"end":52.697843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.984718750000006,"end":72.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.76221875,"end":101.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.84096875,"end":81.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.85471875,"end":108.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.53721875000001,"end":132.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.24221875,"end":137.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.71409375000002,"end":140.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.73471875,"end":167.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.42846875,"end":157.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.31284375,"end":168.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.73471875,"end":174.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.34534375,"end":175.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.29034375,"end":176.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.96534375000002,"end":177.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.03284375,"end":177.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.58971875,"end":177.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.64846875,"end":229.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.82721875000001,"end":196.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.11284375000002,"end":206.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.60909375,"end":217.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.87721875000003,"end":228.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.75034375,"end":264.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.30596875000003,"end":299.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.05221875,"end":269.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.18534375,"end":281.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.28784375000004,"end":310.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.96971875,"end":318.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.49596875000003,"end":330.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.00909375000003,"end":345.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.39034375,"end":354.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.43971875,"end":361.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.56096875000003,"end":362.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.29909375,"end":367.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.00721875000005,"end":369.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.66096875000005,"end":374.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.34409375,"end":379.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.10284375000003,"end":378.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.50346875,"end":496.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.51034375,"end":516.1865937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.9797187500001,"end":517.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.32971875,"end":518.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.4897187500001,"end":524.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.4553437500001,"end":524.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.97846875,"end":528.5053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.9778437500001,"end":596.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.3315937500001,"end":533.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.5959687500001,"end":607.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.7390937499999,"end":600.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.70909375,"end":602.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.1384687500001,"end":615.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.8334687500001,"end":619.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.73159375,"end":621.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.28409375,"end":623.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.7140937500001,"end":663.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.4265937499999,"end":627.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.72471875,"end":679.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.35096875,"end":701.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.09971875,"end":694.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.82846875,"end":701.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.87909375,"end":722.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.4665937500001,"end":722.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.51721875,"end":724.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":724.9809687500001,"end":725.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.61784375,"end":733.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.8115937500002,"end":729.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.85784375,"end":729.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.26284375,"end":732.1528437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.782,"end":14.854,"text":"谢主席 也有请郑部长请郑部长委员好"},{"start":15.817,"end":39.176,"text":"部長早首先本席還是要跟部長關心一下我們國家教育大業這新一年度的預算那目前在野黨遲遲不審總預算那雖然表面上假裝很在乎所以也想讓什麼新興計畫要先行動之可是根據這個立法院職權行使法第七條"},{"start":40.397,"end":51.471,"text":"預算案應該經過三讀程序所以這種所謂的新行動之案根本沒有前例而且除了有急迫性的新興計劃預算我們還有常態性的延續性的計劃預算"},{"start":57.679,"end":72.08,"text":"那比去年度多編一些預算那這些預算有可能是因應物價成長或者是要深化既有的政策那現在這筆錢也因為總預算沒省那面臨到不能使用的窘境"},{"start":73.001,"end":86.355,"text":"那預算法第54條是說除了新興資本支出及新增計劃外其他的計劃是依以或授權的原定計劃或接上年度執行數核實動之"},{"start":89.278,"end":105.314,"text":"按照教育部提供的資料2026年常態性延續性的計畫預算比上一年度增加了66億元那白花一點來講這筆錢可說是藍白不省總預算可能會被實質砍掉的"},{"start":106.855,"end":130.408,"text":"看得到吃不到所以要請補充 簡單講一下這新增的66億的金額主要是用在什麼地方那如果像是說電費 人事費這些費用可能今年的成本會有一些增加而且還要一定支出就是無法被壓縮那其他哪些項目會因為這樣而被"},{"start":133.308,"end":134.249,"text":"緩減齁這個或者減縮它的規模部長"},{"start":138.202,"end":163.465,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實我們真的希望預算115的預算能夠趕快升為什麼因為光剛才委員所講的這個新增的預算裡邊我一直覺得對我們從小學到大學有一項無人機的一個學習這一個學習這一個協作然後從無人機的操作到設計到製造到"},{"start":165.086,"end":173.301,"text":"以後會影響到一個整個產業就是說我們從小學開始到大學這一個9.3億在未來我們是總共編了60對 將近10億"},{"start":179.867,"end":205.841,"text":"總共有將近五十億四年那我會希望說這個真的是非常重要的那當然像其他的它也包含譬如說我們看到有一些大學它事實上有許多歷史建物放在那邊我跟別人說我覺得很不便宜我們怎麼樣給一些錢教育部第一是我們從公務運算邊來支持大學去做老屋的改建或者一些維護"},{"start":206.881,"end":228.57,"text":"我想這也非常有價值那剛才譬如說委員所提到的原來14年已經做的我們現在繼續再持續往好的方面再加碼可是有增加一些譬如說像終身教育師裡面的這個公共圖書館包含地方的Big Maker我們地方圖書館光這一項就增加了將近18億這事實上用來"},{"start":229.83,"end":238.938,"text":"支持地方縣市裡面有自己的縣域更美更現代化的更時尚的圖書館或者鄉鎮的一些鄉鎮型的圖書館上的擴充或者增建"},{"start":246.164,"end":264.239,"text":"那另外呢還有一個在資訊裡邊我們對中小學的數位的學習我想我們AI裡邊有許多的一些基本的設備我們用來支持中小學這裡邊的一些設備的一個添置包含這個用電當然用電補助也有還有像是"},{"start":265.373,"end":287.76,"text":"大學裡面譬如說陽明大學的輔助醫院第二期的擴建計畫那麼也有15.6億這個都是今年新增的以類似這樣的東西他就都沒有辦法做我想我們擔心這個延誤到這一個工程特別在醫院裡面其實有很多的時候他服務的是更廣大的社會大眾的一個健康"},{"start":288.24,"end":309.789,"text":"所以我還真心的期待我們委員能夠趕快來審查這一個15年的預算讓教育部能夠走得更快速更穩健所以部長剛講很多有列舉很多的項目就這66億到底有哪幾個項目其實是被擋掉的"},{"start":311.149,"end":317.914,"text":"假設沒有省 這些都動彈不得 都沒有辦法動那我現在是要問說 好 那既然狀況是這樣那我們要想到最壞最壞的話就是說 那藍白真的就擺爛不省那這樣子的話 你怎麼解決怎麼解決 有沒有想"},{"start":328.883,"end":345.471,"text":"想一些方法怎麼因應我不期待我不想像說我們預算不審我是一個正向難萬事樂觀的人我相信他還是會審就是說我只是希望我們都是做福國利民的事是要因為原來良善的一些"},{"start":346.671,"end":367.466,"text":"對未來想像社會更進步的想像因為這樣而耽擱了一些時間因為這樣而沒有辦法執行這確實是比較困難當然如果藍白可以來省總預算當然是最好因為你看去年的今年的不省那再來我們下半年度照理要省明年的那明年的呢"},{"start":368.526,"end":386.301,"text":"所以這個都環環相扣喔所以還是要趕快今年趕快審那明年趕快這一個也跟在野黨的也能夠大家一起合作這裡就有一位在野黨的要拜託他好那另外跟部長探討一下就是轉型正義教育的問題喔"},{"start":387.542,"end":409.334,"text":"這個行政院在2023年有韓班國家轉型正義教育行動綱領為期四年的這個管考計畫到今年2026年那這個轉型正義的教育隨著很多越來越多的研究啊口述歷史跟藝文的著作它教育的面向越來越多元也更加深入"},{"start":410.054,"end":435.899,"text":"比如說本席曾經向衛福部關心過的政治暴力創傷的療癒或者近期推動轉型正義匯報重視的戰後援助民族轉型正義的強化方案等等那在今年的2月26的行政院院會也特別宣示說要責成教育部啟動嚴定第二期的教育行動綱領那基本上這份到2026的行動綱領"},{"start":438.479,"end":459.967,"text":"是依據促轉會任務總結報告的各面向去編寫的這些教育議題總綱領裡面也有提到會由教育部來協同各面向的主辦機關來研編國家轉型正義教育行動綱領的實施指引來提供各機關來規劃專屬推動計畫跟訓練課程落實轉型教育"},{"start":465.709,"end":488.507,"text":"那這邊綱領今天就要到期那很可能就要來開始編寫下一個階段的這個轉型正義教育規劃所以除了本席剛剛提到的那兩個特定的議題以外那近期掀起很多的歷史補課潮啦那我們看到教育部做了這個補課專區那目前也正逐步在建置這個頁面那我想要請教育部長是說"},{"start":489.588,"end":516.162,"text":"下一份的綱領會加強辦理哪些教育部認為這四年還沒有落實的部分那另外比如說有可能是機關不配合轉型這個轉型正義的教育消極的配合這個國家的這個轉型教育的政策另外說其他我們還有一些新增什麼樣的內容我們要來深化國家的這個轉型正義教育部長"},{"start":520.843,"end":546.934,"text":"謝謝委員關心轉型正義我想自由從來不是理所當然歷史可以被原諒但是不應該被遺忘那我們也知道有些歷史不是存在課本裡邊那也存在這塊土地的記憶中所以我們最近陳委員所關心的我們在今年年底就會把新的一個四年計畫就把它弄出來那過去呢我們確實在許多的那些"},{"start":548.034,"end":570.94,"text":"來自這塊土地的這些轉型正義我剛才講土地也保留了許多的歷史記憶我們開始鼓勵大學有這個透過USR去大手牽小手結合在地的文史工作者跟在地的相關的NGO團體民間團體去把這樣的一個轉型正義故事地圖開始實地去踏查透過教學透過戶外"},{"start":572.2,"end":594.159,"text":"戶外的一個教育裡面戶外的活動裡面開始去推動那另外呢從今年開始陳主委員剛才有看到我們在每一個月會有一到兩期的短影音包含每一個月裡面有特定的來自因為過去白色恐怖的一個受難或者扼巴或者來自於譬如說下個月的沒有今天4月1號我講話是算數的"},{"start":597.262,"end":618.94,"text":"今天事業,我今天講話還是算數的事業七號是言論自由日我們就會有一期這個短影音的言論自由的一個出來那類似這樣的一個東西包含實地的比如說我們也開始跟委員報告我們的部會已經在"},{"start":619.841,"end":645.363,"text":"三月初裡邊我們部務會議一級主管全部到這個景美的這個人權博物館去開部務會議我們也開始校長老師學生開始陸續去鼓勵參觀參觀這個人權博物館或者是到立島裡邊實際的像我們這個月就我會帶領我們的一級主管分兩梯次到立島裡邊去"},{"start":646.744,"end":662.511,"text":"真正的去理解過去在那一個危險的一個時代裡面我們怎麼樣從這裡邊去尋求這一個經驗然後避免要珍惜台灣的一個自由民主得來不易我想這個我們會全面的來做"},{"start":663.872,"end":678.604,"text":"真的非常肯定部長對於轉型正義教育的重視之所以那麼重要我覺得我們看看其他的國家像德國 波蘭你就可以感受到他們認真在做這個教育紮根的努力可是"},{"start":679.525,"end":702.152,"text":"要做事就要有人所以我還是很懇切的來請求這個部長這方面的專責人力應該要增編因為目前那個做轉型正義教育部這邊只有兩位所以我想說是不是也可以來增編那當然這個請您回去研議看看那可不可以在會後來回覆本席有回應跟委員報告我們確實也因為"},{"start":704.913,"end":730.4,"text":"這一個轉型正義裡面的業務量忽然可能這一個部長也這一個非常積極在推動所以我們人手確實有一些不足我們也跟人事總處這邊在積極在希望能夠透過這一個他們能夠獲得支持增加人力好好謝謝那加油啦多增加一些人力喔才能把這事情做得更好好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168093","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168093","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cdca0e6a2b3106cdabad885c3c28ba2b24047e563c2ae1609176963589987de955ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"10:18:27 - 10:29:26","影片長度":"00:10:59","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:18:27+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:29:26+08:00","duration":659,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.30096875,"end":2.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.46096875,"end":3.2878437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.818468750000001,"end":52.174718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.30784375,"end":10.746593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.61346875,"end":128.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.85471875000002,"end":132.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.17471875,"end":136.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.49471875,"end":141.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.38846875000002,"end":144.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.75096875,"end":179.10846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.51346875000002,"end":193.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.73971875,"end":190.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.12721875000003,"end":254.87721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.54159375,"end":242.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.33284375000002,"end":260.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.46784375000001,"end":260.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.63159375000004,"end":260.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.71596875,"end":260.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.81721875,"end":272.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.35534375000003,"end":274.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.55346875000004,"end":275.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.19034375,"end":293.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.00346875,"end":284.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.65596875,"end":294.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.19159375000004,"end":305.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.60909375,"end":296.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.83971875000003,"end":328.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.92409375,"end":308.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.16096875,"end":340.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.21409375,"end":423.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.87284375,"end":364.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.39096875,"end":423.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.33596875,"end":424.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.35284375000003,"end":462.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.69284375,"end":464.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.98784375,"end":472.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.48034375000003,"end":474.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.42096875000004,"end":495.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.43034375,"end":548.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.2278437500001,"end":557.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.2434687500001,"end":557.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.13784375,"end":568.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.81971875,"end":579.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.76721875,"end":581.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.16784375,"end":582.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.58534375,"end":586.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.0109687500001,"end":590.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.07784375,"end":611.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.85096875,"end":655.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.9115937500001,"end":656.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.7553437500001,"end":657.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.29534375,"end":657.9028437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.853,"end":1.837,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請林部長請林部長"},{"start":9.824,"end":39.427,"text":"部長好 根據我們今天的題目我特別的去關心了一下就是有關於這個太平洋島國論壇今年將會是由我們的這個邦交國來做主辦但是我特別去做了一個這樣的整理就是中國對於台灣的國際空間參與的這個所謂介入是非常深的很希望的就是讓台灣被消失但是當然我們知道部長跟我們外交同仁都非常的努力喔那麼"},{"start":40.188,"end":44.134,"text":"以這個即將在今年舉辦的這個所謂的太平洋島國論壇我們張越剛好是我們的邦交國所以當然我們也積極的投入現在的話整個騎乘出來了嗎"},{"start":52.814,"end":70.127,"text":"出來了在八月底九月初的一週所以八月底九月初距離剛好我們年底的地方大選選舉非常的近其實如果來看一下的話以我們的這個曾經的邦交國索羅門他也是去年上一屆的主辦國但是可以看得出來中國對於像索羅門這樣的一個"},{"start":73.85,"end":78.692,"text":"前邦交國過去一開始是先用所謂的金錢外交讓他跟台灣斷交然後呢在2020年的總統大選的時候他企圖就要透過索羅門來介入我們中國中國介入我們台灣的選舉然後去年我想這個情況部長應該也非常清楚就是透過索羅門阻擋我們台灣參與雖然說這一個論壇台灣在1992年開始其實我們就一直都有參與但是他還是介入了"},{"start":101.26,"end":127.78,"text":"那麼去年我在質詢的時候也特別提到美國的智庫特別提醒在我們的邦交國就帛琉透過這個有關於帛琉的部分他甚至於也用金錢的方式介入了帛琉裡面的所謂精英的部分所以我們現在一個邦交國的狀況我想要請問一下部長對於現在我們在執行所謂太平洋論壇中國的動作我們是不是有所防範"},{"start":130.367,"end":140.319,"text":"對 因為去年在索門群島是中共把一些國家的外交部長找去中國開會然後後來就是索門群島呢"},{"start":143.178,"end":154.381,"text":"這個阻止台灣參加那中國在那邊有大使館他可能可以參加所以我們積極交涉的時候包括美日澳等國就有一些夥伴發展的這個所謂的他們夥伴國家也同樣表達意見所以也沒讓中國得逞這個是一個例子"},{"start":160.623,"end":176.357,"text":"那因為當然今年由帛琉來主辦的時候我們就跟他合作把我們榮邦計畫的成果展現而且不只是台灣在帛琉做的是全太平洋國家裡面鄉親國家在那邊做的甚至也不是在帛琉做的包括在馬紹爾群島在這個圖瓦魯就變成我們一個會展"},{"start":180.061,"end":188.67,"text":"我想也歡迎委員到時候可以有直航飛機可以套帛琉去參加這次的PIV甚至有一些我們國會議員也可以倡議我想很多的場邊會議跟活動也是非常的精彩"},{"start":194.637,"end":199.482,"text":"其實我們身為國防外交委員喔那麼邦交國有這樣辦一個大活動我相信不論朝野立委都會一起來出席喔那麼也增加國際交流的經驗但是就像您剛剛提到的這個榮邦計畫喔這個PEF在即但是我們知道很多總預算是卡關的其實今天在您的報告上面也提到了喔就是有一些計畫"},{"start":215.276,"end":232.712,"text":"是屬於新興的包括我們要協助邦交國的部分那麼像這樣的預算卡關的狀況底下您說今年8月會舉辦嘛對不對那麼包括PEF的舉辦我們在協助的部分包括我們要提供我們邦交國在永續觀光智慧永續島等等這個部分那麼會不會受到因為總預算的卡關而受到影響尤其是如果8月舉辦現在已經是"},{"start":242.1,"end":253.188,"text":"4月1號第一季已經過完了那麼在這個部分會不會在經費上面使用上去這個也算新興計畫恐怕無法延續前一年2025年的預算喔那部長該怎麼辦我們總不能你邀請我們去結果我們到現場發現該來的計畫都沒來是會有影響"},{"start":261.934,"end":274.895,"text":"但是當然我們也是先救我們超支再急因為我們有一些這些國家的比較常態性的這些就是援助或者是說相關的預算不過"},{"start":276.226,"end":303.64,"text":"我們當然期待大院能夠盡快的通過那因為外交部在今年的預算增加是比較多是因為榮邦計畫所以這個項目就像委員講的有68.43億那這直接就是說我們希望說把這個榮邦計畫做得更好那我們當然也期待如果能夠附委總預算之後呢我們外交部的預算也經過這個外交國防委員會能夠就新增項目能夠這個"},{"start":305.905,"end":324.838,"text":"能夠予以支持 尤其是我知道就是如果真的這個PEF在這個8月要舉行那麼當然很多的前期的作業是必須要透過來做協助的阿不然我們人去 包括我們朝委的委員如果要去 包括我知道這個召委也要帶著我們去做考察的時候這樣人們問起來 我們起來很難回答 對不對"},{"start":329.218,"end":345.238,"text":"是我也拜託韓院長也拜託召委這個兩位召委我都有說明他們都表達其實是對外交預算是都是跨黨派的支持好那沒有問題另外一個當然我提到我今天會鎖定在中國的部分就包括"},{"start":346.139,"end":354.346,"text":"我想這個中國的長臂管轄不只是對於台灣的國會議員現在連日本的國會議員也不放過但是我先要問一個時事題就是我們也知道政協會確定會在4月7號開始舉辦尤其大概一個禮拜吧"},{"start":364.774,"end":368.216,"text":"這個對於國際當中所傳達的訊息會是什麼呢我相信這個問題對於國際上面大家都在看包括現在我們的軍購特別條例都還在審查當中尤其是放了一個親民廉價回來之後4月7號剛好會是"},{"start":387.809,"end":400.579,"text":"我們的國防特別條例正在院內可能會進行朝野協商甚至於可能在院會當中進行處理而國民黨到現在的態度都還是面對這個國防特別條例是"},{"start":404.222,"end":422.802,"text":"部分同意部分不同意的狀況底下那麼當政協會舉辦的時候他會不會對國際傳達錯誤的訊息而外交部在這裡是不是也有積極的對我們的其他的邦交國或國際友人來做必要的溝通跟說明"},{"start":424.803,"end":445.506,"text":"包括委員 當然就是就順序上因為有所謂政席會之後才有川席會這當然可能都會有一些互相的影響那對台灣來講我們當然就國防特別預算如果能夠儘早通過比較不會被操作啦這個操作也就是說 那習近平可以講說你看我跟台灣的一些政黨也可以談啊"},{"start":446.707,"end":464.194,"text":"那這個對台灣跟美國其實我們的軍購或他們的軍售其實過去台灣關係法或是所謂六項保證就是都有很清楚的規定我們當然希望避免這一些干擾所以如果國防特區算可以儘早通過那就不會被操弄不然有可能"},{"start":465.054,"end":491.085,"text":"不一定有心但是可能會有那個後果啦這個是也是我們外交部我們在很密切的關注所謂的川習會的時候啊這個之前的變數怎麼樣能夠避免發生去影響讓習近平可以操弄用這個來就是介入未來可能美台關係裡面包括軍售他說那以後就透過北京來談你們對台灣有沒有要軍售或什麼這個就是會使得我們外交"},{"start":492.165,"end":507.687,"text":"因為中國的因素而變成一個一個風險好本席其實要建議會特別提出來這個部分就是其實現在包括等一下韓院長也要接見外賓那麼我認為在現在以台灣"},{"start":508.528,"end":511.231,"text":"有這麼樣多的外賓造訪的同時我們除了在國內進行宣傳之外我也要提醒外館在這個時候這個關鍵時刻我相信國際的友人其實都在看著不論是實質的邦交國或者是我們非常友好的這些同盟國家"},{"start":527.345,"end":542.757,"text":"自由民主陣線的國家在這個時候是所有外交同仁第一線要面臨更多做說明跟解釋包括部長您剛剛特別點到的就是如果說今天這樣的一場會面導致於國際社會有錯誤的印象認為說好像談軍購或是談台灣的未來甚至於談台灣的經貿透過北京習近平這一條線會有所謂的代理人他會下指導旗或者是在幕後"},{"start":556.688,"end":579.02,"text":"給予他所謂決定要或不要那麼這樣的一個錯誤的訊息的釋放對台灣就會相對的不利那麼就會像我剛剛從前面講到的帛琉在這個所謂的國際的太平洋的黨國論壇當中有機會上下其手又或者是用其他的方式來壓縮台灣的外交空間是"},{"start":583.649,"end":609.636,"text":"因為國際的大國之間當然都會就是說有很多的高峰會或什麼那我們包括這一次所謂的美日高峰會我想大家也看到包括川普總統他的事實清單以及日本方面他們都有反應對於台海這個的關心那也是反對單方的這個不管武力或脅迫來解決爭議所以"},{"start":611.937,"end":631.044,"text":"我們怎麼樣讓台灣的外交是呈現是團結的這個能夠對外不然的話這個確實是使我們在交涉的時候人家會問那你們到底對特別預算的態度那是不是這個就是當然我做一個外交部長內政的部分我說很多"},{"start":631.544,"end":631.564,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168092","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168092","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c3cb874f729dd87ad7570c8d4d2e9dc784047e563c2ae160964a5fa53d23552a65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"10:16:26 - 10:28:22","影片長度":"00:11:56","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:16:26+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:28:22+08:00","duration":716,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.5153437499999995,"end":6.494093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.966593750000001,"end":8.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.025343750000001,"end":10.172843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.69409375,"end":22.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.71096875,"end":24.195968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.70221875,"end":33.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.173468750000005,"end":37.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.74659375,"end":39.704093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.10909375,"end":45.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.33596875,"end":54.689093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.97596875,"end":71.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.17159375,"end":72.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.30221875000001,"end":77.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.21284375,"end":79.59659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.11971875,"end":88.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.68784375,"end":100.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.85909375,"end":104.06534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.72346875000001,"end":114.64596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.45596875000001,"end":121.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.66596875,"end":145.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.40909375,"end":157.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.50409375,"end":160.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.57971875,"end":171.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.73409375,"end":183.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.05284375000002,"end":192.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.57034375,"end":194.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.94096875000002,"end":198.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.95346875,"end":206.36159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.78846875000002,"end":201.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.80534375000002,"end":201.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.90159375000002,"end":212.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.75721875000002,"end":215.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.13221875000002,"end":227.15159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.84784375,"end":236.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.34971875000002,"end":228.70409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.19721875000002,"end":232.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.36971875,"end":235.85909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.77034375000002,"end":238.86284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.76596875,"end":243.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.09409375,"end":248.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.83596875,"end":270.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.59471875000003,"end":254.38784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.96159375000002,"end":255.26534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.92221875,"end":264.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.34721875,"end":274.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.00909375000003,"end":280.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.96596875,"end":286.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.59034375000005,"end":284.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.83846875,"end":297.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.52909375,"end":297.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.08159375,"end":297.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.57096875,"end":297.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.58784375000005,"end":297.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.89159375,"end":297.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.97596875,"end":298.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.67596875000004,"end":302.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.43909375000004,"end":308.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.65409375,"end":305.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.83971875000003,"end":305.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.93221875,"end":312.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.02909375,"end":315.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.20534375,"end":319.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.95159375000003,"end":319.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.86284375,"end":322.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.14971875000003,"end":321.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.17471875,"end":322.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.20846875,"end":322.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.25909375000003,"end":322.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.30971875,"end":322.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.34346875,"end":323.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.27971875000003,"end":331.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.56596875,"end":339.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.72471875,"end":340.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":341.14221875000004,"end":341.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":342.34034375000005,"end":356.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":356.83596875,"end":372.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.46221875000003,"end":396.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.48284375000003,"end":375.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":375.49971875,"end":376.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.50471875000005,"end":412.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":412.35471875,"end":433.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.57409375000003,"end":412.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.33346875,"end":413.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.69846875,"end":427.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":430.14096875,"end":457.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.84034375000005,"end":436.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.90784375000004,"end":440.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":457.86659375000005,"end":457.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.91721875,"end":458.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":457.98471875,"end":458.28846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.35596875000005,"end":458.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":458.44034375,"end":458.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.45721875000004,"end":458.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":458.52471875000003,"end":458.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.59221875000003,"end":458.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":458.84534375000004,"end":461.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":462.62534375,"end":468.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":468.98721875,"end":477.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.35346875000005,"end":486.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.41909375000006,"end":489.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":489.03471875,"end":489.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":490.72221875,"end":491.09346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":491.48159375000006,"end":491.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":492.76409375000003,"end":494.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":495.10971875,"end":500.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.44284375,"end":499.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.96534375000005,"end":506.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":502.24784375,"end":502.83846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":503.36159375000005,"end":525.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":526.05846875,"end":535.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.0534687500001,"end":538.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":538.6809687500001,"end":554.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":545.9878437500001,"end":547.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.9653437500001,"end":558.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.7790937500001,"end":559.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":562.5590937500001,"end":571.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.49846875,"end":581.8640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.6528437500001,"end":585.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.7709687500001,"end":583.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.0534687500001,"end":591.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.30971875,"end":597.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.4184687500001,"end":599.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.0890937500001,"end":607.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":607.6997187500001,"end":609.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.16784375,"end":609.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.0790937500001,"end":620.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.9553437500001,"end":619.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.7609687500001,"end":620.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":620.96346875,"end":627.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.6415937500001,"end":650.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":652.18221875,"end":654.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.9665937500001,"end":655.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.03409375,"end":655.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.62471875,"end":655.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.0972187500001,"end":661.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.61534375,"end":675.2334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.57096875,"end":678.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.96284375,"end":682.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.45596875,"end":682.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.6584687500001,"end":682.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.72596875,"end":684.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.02534375,"end":696.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":697.08659375,"end":698.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.3015937499999,"end":698.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.9428437500001,"end":699.1115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.1115937500001,"end":699.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":699.19596875,"end":699.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.21284375,"end":712.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":713.4384687500001,"end":715.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":715.93596875,"end":715.9697187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.701,"end":9.896,"text":"主席好 我們請一下洪部長好 邀請洪部長"},{"start":25.502,"end":38.653,"text":"這個我看到我們4月13號即將上路的這個家事移工新制那乍看之下是好事可是我突然仔細想想可是裡面好像很多的問題我在這邊請教我們部長我們決定這個開出一張144萬人的這個空投支票"},{"start":46.448,"end":71.161,"text":"那先讓我們的家長認為說有便宜的勞動力可以用那至於人從哪裡來勞動部好像也沒說明我們現在目前只管把這個門檻拆掉然後引發這個洗工潮讓原本照顧老人的看護都跑去照顧小孩那至於以後小孩怎麼長大台灣保母會不會失業那長照體系會不會崩盤"},{"start":73.322,"end":88.834,"text":"不是勞動部要關心的問題數據好看比較重要那我看到衛福部的報告他承認我們承認這個國家一起養這個小孩子這個牛皮吹破了"},{"start":89.744,"end":113.652,"text":"既然公托蓋不夠 本國保母又太貴那我們決定棄守專業照護的底線反正只要把這批移工定義為家務幫傭 而非專業保母未來家裡出事就不歸衛福部管我們只負責發幾份數位教材 求個西南至於144萬個小孩的成長品質跟本土托育產業的崩潰"},{"start":115.513,"end":130.484,"text":"那是家庭的私事與市場的競爭請大家自求多福那從這兩份書面報告我們可以看到政府的政策現在已經簡化到只要有人看小孩讓大人去工廠或辦公室上班就是成功的政策"},{"start":131.645,"end":157.576,"text":"至於小孩照顧得好不好那本國保母有沒有飯吃國家這個養了這個政策是否名存實亡在4月1號的報告裡面都沒有看到具體的解決方案那我先請教衛福部你們現在這個定調勞動政策說家務幫庸不涉及專業托孕請教一下你有沒有去過任何一個家裡有小孩同時又請了移工的家庭你看過他們的真實生活嗎"},{"start":158.556,"end":182.019,"text":"在你們這種表格化的腦袋裡世界是切開來的這一男是移工的廚房洗碗煮飯掃地這叫勞動部的勞動政策另一男是小孩在哭在爬要換尿布這叫衛福部的社政業務但現實生活中這兩件事是分開的只要家裡有小孩移工的手隨時都會觸碰到那我再請問就是說"},{"start":184.127,"end":194.063,"text":"在這個萬一這個事情成真之後我們這個144萬個家庭當中如果發生了嚴重移工裂銅的案件這是屬於誰要負責的"},{"start":199.01,"end":215.175,"text":"包委員我還是再重申一次委員剛剛所說的我覺得可能會有一些些小小偏頗我必須要跟委員報告所有這些政策其實基本上大概都是一攬子的一個政策對於這些部分我們有我們有津貼"},{"start":216.215,"end":239.066,"text":"我們有公托我們也需要給家長時間這是現在目前全世界在推行有關於這個對育兒家庭最重要事實上就是有這些綜合的政策公司我請問衛福部衛福部對本土的保姆當初的要求是要受訓要訪視要定期考核因為衛福部說要專業嘛對不對要管得到我們這個也其實現在針對這144萬的家庭如果引進外籍幫佣你說這個部分你怎麼處理"},{"start":244.424,"end":270.8,"text":"包委員這兩個並不是互相替代的啊這互相是補充的這不是互相替代是互相是補充的那他不會照顧到小孩嗎那你請你給這些家庭請這些外勞的用意是什麼包委員我們現在目前容我在他不會你請過來請過來你現在是年齡限制12歲以下嘛對不對包委員讓我再簡單說明一下我們現在目前對家庭照顧有三個層次一個叫teacher"},{"start":271.42,"end":298.548,"text":"第二個呢是有關baby sister另外第三個叫housekeeper這三個是不一樣的那三個不一樣其實大家每一個家庭你一個家庭他有辦法處理這麼多人嗎他有辦法這樣有辦法簽話嗎因為他領的錢他有辦法去做這麼多的事情嗎所以我們現在每一個家庭都有不同的階段都有他們不同的需求所以我覺得這裡面事實上是我們應該要有一個所謂比較我請問這些幫傭他能不能照顧小孩"},{"start":301.515,"end":321.031,"text":"這些外勞 外勞 外勞報告委員喔 讓我再重複一下我就這樣問嘛 他如果能夠照顧小孩 那是不是就要照你的規定外勞工作內容大概有幾個部分嘛 是房舍清理嘛食物烹調 但是家庭成員他也要照顧他的起居所以他當然 請這個當然是子女啊對 他要不要領保姆證照"},{"start":325.419,"end":340.357,"text":"他是邦庸所以他跟保姆是不一樣的所以我剛剛就講一個是housekeeper一個是fellowshitter你怎麼去界定這個事情我這樣講因為邦庸這個外勞請到家裡你怎麼去限制他說這個不能碰那個不能碰你懂我意思嗎"},{"start":342.823,"end":363.049,"text":"其實現在大家對保姆的專業期待很高,比方說他的健康照顧,甚至是他的發展的支持,就是小孩的早期發展的引導,甚至也包括一些輕職上面的顧問,或者是輕職上面的協助。"},{"start":363.969,"end":384.696,"text":"當然這些事情都是現在專業保姆裡面被期待賦予的一些專業的角色這些工作當然是外籍幫傭無法做的啊對啦我現在要講的就是說我發現的問題點我現在是提醒你們你們要把這個事情釐清把它做得清楚一點寫得清楚一點就像我部長我還再請教就像你現在講話我再問你一個問題"},{"start":387.197,"end":395.922,"text":"就是說我們今天的這項政策是要讓家長安心去工作嘛提高我們的勞動力對吧那邏輯上申請人應該都要在職場對吧"},{"start":397.574,"end":419.187,"text":"我沒有看到我們要申請的時候,我只看到要戶口名簿、要申請表、身障罕見證明、罕病證明那你們沒有寫說這兩個人的在職證明或者是勞保紀錄吧?你們也要提供嗎?第一個,其實的確現在大部分來跟我們要求、希望來申請的"},{"start":420.247,"end":435.564,"text":"絕大部分的確都是雙性家庭這是確定的但你沒有限制啊可是你沒寫清楚啊我們的資格的條件就是現在就是以12歲以下的小孩現在就是報告上沒寫嘛我現在提醒你"},{"start":437.565,"end":460.113,"text":"對 我就舉例啦我們基本上就是一個家庭家裡他是這個收出工媽媽是專業貴婦兩個名下財產過億喔如果沒有工作需求他就可以天天遊山玩水那家裡有一個10歲以下的小孩子他就可以申請嘛 對不對那如果這樣繞過他這樣對我們的這個提高的勞動力好像一點幫助都沒有啊你跟我意思嗎第一個我還是要說"},{"start":462.711,"end":478.358,"text":"我們剛剛在講到其實現在絕大多數來表達希望申請的確都是雙薪家庭那這個雙薪家庭他有他在工作跟家務分配上面這樣的需求對啦你們的出發點是對啦那我剛剛提醒你的時候你沒有剛剛沒有限制這個項目的時候你這個這個所謂的這個增加勞動的這個政策啊會變成富人管家的補助計畫"},{"start":491.586,"end":508.997,"text":"其實你在兩年前你也要求我們我覺得是好事啊請我們願意要開放邦庸啊對對對我沒有反對我現在不是反對我的意思是說你們的規則你們的審查資格都沒有寫清楚你懂我意思嗎"},{"start":510.538,"end":529.635,"text":"原本是三個小孩六歲以下這的確在現代的家庭結構裡面是過度嚴格的所以我們希望能夠把它放寬那在這個放寬的過程裡面第一個我們針對如果是弱勢比方說如果家長是生長或者是小孩的狀況是早療或者是發展遲緩"},{"start":531.056,"end":553.982,"text":"包括這些東西我們都做了優先的配套的設計你不用再跟我解釋這件事情時間沒有很多啦我其實我是支持這個政策但是我希望你們把這個政策的規則寫清楚不要到時候搞得亂七八糟的各位說明我們會把配套做好那再來我想請部長請回我想請這個行政院理副秘書長人總我們的理處長保訓會蔡處長"},{"start":562.591,"end":580.939,"text":"我先請教你們三位就是代表的我們台灣公務體系最核心的人事與法治單位那我先請教您你們在過去的公務生涯當中有沒有親自擔任過職場霸凌小組的調查委員或親自撰寫過這個霸凌案的這個認定報告"},{"start":584.097,"end":609.016,"text":"有沒有去擔任過跟委員報告 我擔任過調查委員但是我沒有寫過調查報告對 因為我看到你們 你們有講到就是說現在行政院是外聘四個嘛 對不對外聘四個調查委員那我請教一下 這四個裡面是誰在做主還是行政院另外有派人"},{"start":610.58,"end":623.728,"text":"跟委員報告那這一次的調查小組的話我們四位都是外聘委員那沒有內部委員沒有內部委員那誰為主導呢誰為主導啊如果他們四個調查回來兩個說有問題兩個又說沒有那怎麼辦"},{"start":629.89,"end":650.619,"text":"調查小組是四個人,他會分工共同調查但是出那個報告的話,是四個人共同出一份報告,沒有出四份報告那如果四個人都講不好怎麼辦?四個人他們自己內部會有開會,他們會協調出共同的結論會討論出一個共同的結論,那你們就會照做嗎?"},{"start":656.544,"end":682.194,"text":"我們會照做嗎你們會照他們的報告做嗎因為這一次就是為了要公正跟客觀嘛為了要釐清事實的真相所以我們自己的內部委員是沒有介入調查的那對於他的報告我們當然會信任跟尊重啊對啦 我不希望說這四個大家調查到後來然後沒有一個結論到時候又不了了之啊"},{"start":683.074,"end":711.51,"text":"不會那到時候誰要介入是你們介入還是誰介入他是這樣子他的過程中的話現在由調查小組先去調查那調查完以後會出一份調查報告出稿那這個要多久你們現在調查要多久依照規定的時限是兩個月必要可以延長一個月但是院長昨天已經宣示了我們會盡量在規定兩個月的期限內完成報告好那我們就靜待報告了好謝謝"},{"start":714.501,"end":715.285,"text":"謝謝邱政軍委員的資訊"}]}},{"id":"168090","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168090","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c3f85e5cbb5e8675b331a35e1dda586ae4047e563c2ae1609a488f48b86ec085f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳超明","委員發言時間":"10:19:22 - 10:28:12","影片長度":"00:08:50","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「能源轉型政策下我國產業發展布局，及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就「AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及扶助政策規劃與執行情形」進行報告，並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:19:22+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:28:12+08:00","duration":530,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":3.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.11471875,"end":4.705343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.127218750000001,"end":8.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.24909375,"end":9.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.98721875,"end":10.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.341593750000001,"end":10.594718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.392218750000001,"end":10.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.594718750000002,"end":11.708468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.450343750000002,"end":17.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.17159375,"end":20.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.63534375,"end":24.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.95971875,"end":24.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.69784375,"end":26.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.05596875,"end":30.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.794093750000002,"end":35.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.805968750000005,"end":37.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.033468750000004,"end":38.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.180968750000005,"end":40.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.12159375,"end":42.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.06221875,"end":45.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.76221875,"end":48.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.28909375,"end":50.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.976593750000006,"end":51.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.44471875,"end":55.515968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.937843750000006,"end":58.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.127218750000004,"end":60.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.83159375,"end":64.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.69596875,"end":71.83409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.18846875,"end":75.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.02346875,"end":75.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.17096875,"end":76.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.18784375,"end":81.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.43159375,"end":85.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.70534375000001,"end":89.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.53596875000001,"end":91.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.08409375000001,"end":93.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.56909375000001,"end":96.89346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.51784375000001,"end":100.52159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.94346875000001,"end":102.81659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.59284375,"end":104.26784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.60534375,"end":105.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.59659375000001,"end":107.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.03096875,"end":111.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.54096875,"end":115.06784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.48971875000001,"end":116.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.02534375,"end":121.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.41284375000001,"end":124.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.87221875,"end":126.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.89721875000001,"end":130.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.99784375000002,"end":132.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.82034375,"end":134.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.91284375,"end":135.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.25034375,"end":135.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.97596875000002,"end":136.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.02659375000002,"end":136.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.11096875,"end":136.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.70159375,"end":137.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.75221875,"end":147.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.37221875,"end":138.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.02096875,"end":161.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.96346875,"end":179.51346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.07909375,"end":189.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.99409375000002,"end":182.34846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.58846875,"end":186.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.76534375,"end":189.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.89159375,"end":191.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.40596875,"end":195.40971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.76409375,"end":203.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.72909375,"end":214.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.71471875,"end":217.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.92096875000001,"end":221.22846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.71784375000001,"end":223.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.19846875000002,"end":226.66221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.15159375000002,"end":229.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.42534375000002,"end":231.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.97784375,"end":237.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.02346875,"end":246.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.36471875,"end":241.09034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.09034375000002,"end":242.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.95909375000002,"end":244.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.60034375,"end":245.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.15284375000002,"end":248.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.89534375000002,"end":248.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.93721875000003,"end":254.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.35409375,"end":254.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.37096875,"end":260.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.93534375,"end":261.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.36971875,"end":265.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.44096875,"end":266.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.09471875,"end":268.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.68096875000003,"end":269.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.79471875,"end":270.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.60471875,"end":272.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.10221875,"end":274.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.92471875,"end":277.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.75971875,"end":279.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.61596875000004,"end":281.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.42159375,"end":287.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.11721875,"end":286.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.83846875,"end":288.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.86346875000004,"end":300.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.09784375000004,"end":303.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.57409375000003,"end":307.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.96596875,"end":312.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.33659375,"end":312.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.97784375000003,"end":319.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.22159375,"end":319.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.99784375,"end":326.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.35534375000003,"end":342.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.16721875,"end":344.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.12471875,"end":346.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.66034375000004,"end":348.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.83721875000003,"end":353.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.91659375,"end":368.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.80034375,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.46596875,"end":383.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.00471875000005,"end":399.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.85034375000004,"end":403.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.00159375000004,"end":406.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.13596875,"end":413.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.77221875000004,"end":417.72096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.36221875,"end":422.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.90159375,"end":426.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.59721875,"end":436.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.30034375,"end":438.42659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.45596875,"end":441.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.03784375000004,"end":443.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.97846875000005,"end":454.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.94721875000005,"end":455.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.21284375000005,"end":459.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.85784375000003,"end":467.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.83971875000003,"end":485.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.81159375000004,"end":503.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.95221875000004,"end":504.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.50909375000003,"end":510.98909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.54596875000004,"end":531.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.09221875,"end":526.48034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.049,"end":2.47,"text":"首先有請我們國安會業主委還有我們經濟部的副部長委員長"},{"start":29.116,"end":34.595,"text":"首先我請教一下尤其國發會的主委跟我們經濟部的何次長"},{"start":35.836,"end":58.27,"text":"你覺得美伊跟伊朗的戰爭這個是能源戰整個現在打得很激烈你覺得這樣的問題會持續多久不要隨便回答你是我們經濟計畫最主要的一個規劃者經濟不是只要在執行者"},{"start":59.61,"end":75.015,"text":"你的看法怎麼樣?依照美國智庫的預估啦這個比較有可能的情況是會打四周到八周所以從二月底這樣推算回來應該在四月底之前這是機率比較高這是美國的智庫預估的"},{"start":76.255,"end":101.587,"text":"但是整個世界都變化,現在誰也不能掌控誰,誰也不能掌控別人我覺得這個戰爭可能會持續很久美國資格講四到八座好像他們答應如果從其他的群來看的話,這場仗打起來是會天翻地覆的那我現在你們不能講四到八座,你要有長遠的規劃"},{"start":103.929,"end":129.819,"text":"萬一我們的天然氣如果能不能在別的地方能繼續的採購現在每一條船幾乎都增加了10億萬一這個世界一直在動盪不安在持續亂下來我們的對岸把你封鎖起來你要怎麼辦所以做任何事情你要想要做到一個最壞的打算"},{"start":131.135,"end":138.583,"text":"我們現在抱得很平安但是這裡面牽扯很大你一定要做到最壞的狀況會成什麼樣子但是我們都會再做滾動式的調整不會說因為這樣子我們就放棄了後面的規劃對 當然要準備"},{"start":147.393,"end":166.796,"text":"你說都要採購油鹽有沒有很薄如果那邊繼續下來整個都封掉了包括沙烏地那整個整個油漆都會被打掉生產肌肉都會被打掉看起來現在的局勢是這樣經濟部的資料告訴我們就是說五月底之前LNG是沒問題"},{"start":167.256,"end":191.557,"text":"那六月的話也大部分都已經到位大概只剩下六七三還沒有還沒有但這個都持都持續在補充當中那我們會隨著整個局勢的變化做滾動式的調整要為臺灣的能源做好最大的一個準備是萬一能源斷了臺灣的命脈我大概會說你們要好好努力好好加油謝謝委員那第二個問題我要請教"},{"start":192.878,"end":217,"text":"現在剛剛那個中委員提到那上次我請教我們經濟部長所有石化的產品都在漲價都買不到貨那我們的鞏部長說買不到貨不可能我問他如果苗栗的工廠買不到貨我跟他調他說好沒有問題但是這樣的情形已經在發生"},{"start":218.602,"end":245.72,"text":"這個發生了又要通貨膨脹所以控制不了因為你來源稀少你缺貨這是我們要面臨的問題所以在這一方面我們要如何來應對要來準備假如委員有知道哪一家廠商掉不到貨的話可以請經濟部我還沒我是在高鐵上兩三家碰到我做售銷的我跟您報告一下因為最主要我們是要讓這個他講的台塑那個是真的"},{"start":247.121,"end":271.566,"text":"你不要以為假的喔是以前廠商都跟我們講暫停報價暫停停貨4月以後才報價所以我們現在當務之急就是說第一個確保生產不會斷貨斷料那所以台塑今天中油已經啟動了四清的一個運作那今天開始這個月會增加1.9萬"},{"start":273.666,"end":300.527,"text":"噸的這個乙烯那下個月會增加變三萬噸所以這樣的一個供給量他會優先供給給做塑膠袋做衣材的這個廠商來加速這個生產我要接到一個消息現在我們啊公家單位在鋪柏油路的也要斷貨了都是停止不報價了不報價了那很多道路都鋪到一半都停下來啊是"},{"start":301.547,"end":326.333,"text":"這個人都要特別注意的一個現象那個綠圈大概以前都是進口啦那現在這都是從中東伊朗進口那個比較便宜啦現在整個所以你們要掌握整個狀況要有聯合的應用好不好還有剛剛講到10年10年4月1號宣布它的石油它的油氣不出口"},{"start":327.441,"end":341.365,"text":"全部擋下來所以我們面臨的危機跟美國我們能不能買得到跟澳洲能不能買得到大家都在搶貨這個要特別注意一下我希望這個要好好做應用的設施"},{"start":343.306,"end":367.973,"text":"再來談到AIAI的話真的是百功百業我希望國發會我們的經濟部跟社會部要去分工你要如何去分工?因為這就叫學習要成長要跟人一樣當然現在人的機器人還有很多零件不能像人這樣的靈活那腦力的方面這邊大概沒有問題"},{"start":369.333,"end":390.273,"text":"現在就是在你的視覺、在你視覺、在你手腳的應用要自行判斷所以百工百業每一個人在學習的環境不一樣尤其我們前端的話包括設計那些我們困難但是我們在製造方面專長但是我們最重要一塊就是說皮子電焊業"},{"start":391.454,"end":406.027,"text":"你要設計一個模型啊那個譬如水泥工要什麼模型都要設計出來以後才會有成效那我一直強調一件事情要學習的熱場那要應用AI最重要要會問問題"},{"start":408.808,"end":425.095,"text":"問問題才能去得到一個正確的答案所以如果學習這場像電視台那些名字叫他們不要亂講你要播一段時間政府播一段時間講AI的重要讓全民去學習那都是亂講話啦"},{"start":426.656,"end":455.226,"text":"我們是講真的話在立法會我們都很清楚你大王他這樣現在很多人在看他這樣看他越新鮮越好越刺激越好但是都說一些無所謂我是指到說你們強制每一個電視台每一個名嘴在那個廣播的節目請大家學習AI增強台灣未來的競爭力讓大家曉得這個事情的重要你們在說"},{"start":456.286,"end":485.154,"text":"有做生意的人做產業的人有了解但是很多不曉得怎樣去施力因為這都有技術老師的經驗也不交給你第二交給你以後給AI人來做他的職位又要被替代了這個人性的問題在這邊要如何去突破要如何這樣子台灣每一個人有學習AI的這種熱場因為這是未來的一個戰略非常非常的重要"},{"start":486.134,"end":500.759,"text":"白宮白夜市在經濟部那邊把他分門白列找一家公司專門研究他怎樣做蛋糕怎樣去那個都是要學習的一個過程把他思考裡面才會應用得當"},{"start":504.94,"end":527.292,"text":"每一個大的變化裡面在推動都非常困難但是我們一定要持之有百工百業把它分類一下大概有幾個行業有那一種模型可以來做然後做出來大家能通用個人的技術個人的know-how他把它輸到裡面就可以去改變了好不好好謝謝謝謝市長、議員"}]}},{"id":"168087","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168087","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c876b6de13725e9b4331a35e1dda586ae4047e563c2ae16090c48c7cb505eef785ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"10:11:53 - 10:19:17","影片長度":"00:07:24","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「能源轉型政策下我國產業發展布局，及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就「AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及扶助政策規劃與執行情形」進行報告，並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:11:53+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:19:17+08:00","duration":444,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.06471875,"end":0.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.130968750000001,"end":9.869093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.18971875,"end":11.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.42909375,"end":17.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.39096875,"end":51.432218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.157843750000005,"end":56.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.017843750000004,"end":59.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.055343750000006,"end":87.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.789093750000006,"end":63.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.49784375,"end":63.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.75846875,"end":70.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.51721875,"end":76.23846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.21721875,"end":78.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.77784375,"end":81.33471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.79034375,"end":82.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.35971875,"end":84.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.79784375,"end":90.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.46409375,"end":93.72096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.12596875000001,"end":95.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.06659375000001,"end":99.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.85534375,"end":98.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.03659375000001,"end":99.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.66096875000001,"end":113.59971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.69471875,"end":101.33159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.45346875000001,"end":106.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.69346875000001,"end":108.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.08971875,"end":112.06409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.76846875000001,"end":114.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.88221875,"end":117.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.64971875,"end":118.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.96596875,"end":119.30346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.30346875000001,"end":122.02034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.20159375,"end":125.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.13784375,"end":127.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.75346875,"end":131.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.79096875000002,"end":132.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.46596875,"end":157.59284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.26221875000002,"end":140.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.58846875,"end":168.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.99596875,"end":170.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.04221875000002,"end":174.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.53534375,"end":178.19721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.09159375000002,"end":179.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.85096875000002,"end":184.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.60159375,"end":183.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.73221875000002,"end":186.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.88784375,"end":190.06034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.25034375,"end":189.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.06034375000002,"end":190.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.39784375000002,"end":195.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.47784375,"end":192.06846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.84846875000002,"end":196.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.16909375,"end":198.76784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.45971875,"end":200.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.97846875000002,"end":201.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.02471875,"end":209.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.02784375000002,"end":209.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.58471875,"end":209.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.78721875000002,"end":210.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.47909375,"end":211.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.03596875000002,"end":211.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.12034375000002,"end":211.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.33971875,"end":211.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.39034375,"end":212.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.03159375,"end":218.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.12846875000002,"end":213.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.28784375,"end":233.04096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.35034375,"end":224.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.98659375000003,"end":233.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.96909375,"end":234.61034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.10409375,"end":234.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.61034375000003,"end":234.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.06596875000002,"end":237.96846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.96846875000003,"end":238.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.10346875000002,"end":238.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.09909375,"end":239.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.04409375,"end":244.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.88346875000002,"end":252.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.27846875000003,"end":272.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.11909375,"end":276.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.78096875,"end":276.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.01721875000004,"end":277.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.03409375,"end":277.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.27034375,"end":279.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.26159375000003,"end":290.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.44284375,"end":280.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.67409375,"end":289.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.33159375,"end":290.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.51721875000004,"end":290.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.55096875000004,"end":290.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.56784375,"end":290.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.65221875000003,"end":290.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.71971875,"end":291.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.39471875000004,"end":296.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.65534375000004,"end":298.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.39784375,"end":298.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.87034375,"end":298.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.98846875000004,"end":318.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.42409375,"end":324.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.25034375,"end":326.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.81534375,"end":326.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.94596875,"end":344.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.55534375,"end":349.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.66409375,"end":350.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.79909375,"end":349.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.22096875,"end":355.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.43971875,"end":354.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.62096875000003,"end":375.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.71471875000003,"end":378.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.29221875,"end":381.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.62534375,"end":383.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.83596875,"end":384.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.84409375,"end":394.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.14659375,"end":396.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.16721875,"end":401.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.36096875000004,"end":406.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.38096875,"end":417.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.41471875,"end":407.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.92034375000003,"end":410.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.98784375,"end":411.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.33346875,"end":413.92409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.97846875000005,"end":425.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.47534375000004,"end":426.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.66471875,"end":430.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.96784375000004,"end":442.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":430.98471875,"end":431.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.10534375000003,"end":442.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.18534375,"end":444.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.88971875000004,"end":444.97409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.555,"end":9.558,"text":"謝謝主席 請次長"},{"start":17.632,"end":37.325,"text":"好 次長因為國際能源局勢的震盪我們國內的產業跟民生用電不斷的提高所以我們的政府也要重新的來檢視我們能源政策的合理性也把我們的核能列為選項之一但是本席要在這邊強調我們的再生能源部分我們還是要來重視那現在本來是再生能源在2025年的時候我們達到20%那部長後來也坦言了可能就要二度跳票"},{"start":46.531,"end":71.584,"text":"但是我們不能無限期的一直延宕所以請問這個20%我們什麼時候可以達到當然這個會隨著我們這個用電的成長因為母樹會成長你就評估說什麼時候 不用講這個細則啦我們會再努力啦 努力就是每年所以無限期延期不會 應該也會很快就會達到因為我們2030年有一個目標"},{"start":72.384,"end":72.904,"text":"所以你沒有時間表啦"},{"start":98.027,"end":117.852,"text":"至少去年會講今年啊那你今年不該講什麼時候各種不同的這個綠能包括小水利包括這個所以總評估會什麼時候達成不知道當然我們現在會滾動但是2030年會達到嗎2030年會到百分之三十這樣的目標百分之三十是哪一年達到2030年2030年就要達到對好那你知道2050年要達到多少嗎"},{"start":123.254,"end":127.881,"text":"你們有一個淨零排放的這個路徑嗎國發會公布的 葉主委"},{"start":129.223,"end":140.908,"text":"大概60到70左右了好這都是你我們的指標我希望你們能夠努力那本席會這樣子問就是憂心因為美伊這個戰爭不知道什麼時候結束那我們受到中東部分的這個原油的問題我們現在也要分散我們的能源的採購到澳洲跟美國那但是我們跟中東不只是買賣的關係我們還有投資的關係就是卡達我們有投資了北方"},{"start":158.989,"end":164.353,"text":"棄田東段計畫將近有5%的這個股權109億那現在戰爭一直在發生有沒有在評估我們在這方面的話我們的設備等等這些設備還有這個投資的預算會不會增加"},{"start":179.895,"end":184.6,"text":"那本來是今年11月會要生產啦 但是後來因為戰事的關係每年會分配40萬桶的 40萬噸的這個40萬噸的天然氣 那現在已經停工了那明年的40萬噸就不可能囉 是不是"},{"start":202.216,"end":218.046,"text":"會不會 明年會不會我們會再尋找替代替代的這個來源所以明年就不可能有40萬噸的天然氣嗎其實我們會有其他的從其他國家來的本來我們預估明年會分配回來現在沒有辦法分配了那可以知道什麼時候分配回來嗎"},{"start":220.093,"end":220.794,"text":"我們會不會要增加這個投資的預算"},{"start":240.297,"end":261.884,"text":"我們要先了解一下這些都要評估出來因為我們現在受到全球能源供給的壓力所以中油這部分也要趕快跟其他的國家簽約但是我們現在看到美國的川普本來是對俄羅斯有制裁所以大家都沒有再跟俄羅斯簽約那現在"},{"start":263.724,"end":289.416,"text":"我們國家本來2017年到2022年有跟俄羅斯簽約後面就沒有簽約了那現在放寬的時候我們要不要繼續簽約目前是沒有考慮到沒有考慮繼續簽約的部分因為在別的國家已經有採購了是嗎是 我們有其他的來源我們盡量就是說從這個美國從其他這個西非能源的調度 巴西這些國家來調度好"},{"start":291.458,"end":296.49,"text":"那接下來我們想謝謝那個部長你就先請回我請葉主委"},{"start":297.968,"end":325.773,"text":"藝術委 委員好AI是我們一直在推的尤其是製造業的AI我們是輔導在輔導那AI現在是新十大建設啦那而且也特別你們國發會有評估出來說如果說AI在2040年可以創造15兆的產值50萬的高薪工作機會這個評估這個目標會不會太過於樂觀你有沒有短中長期的一個計畫有有有 因為就"},{"start":327.984,"end":349.306,"text":"第一個就是說我們這個設定那個2040年45兆的話其實有一個設算的基礎其實我們會就我們目前比如說到2028年我們會達到哪一個目標那2035年會達到哪一個目標那2040年也會達到所以有短中長期的計畫嗎有有有我們有短中長期你必須有短中長期的話我們才可以知道說你們的成效的一個成果出來對有"},{"start":350.347,"end":369.312,"text":"那為什麼要這樣子問因為我們看到一般的製造業的AI我們看到製造業我們要輔導的產業全台灣製造業總共有9.96萬家到目前去年11月份你們的資料裡面在產業的輔導你有個產業的輔導團現在輔導的只有526家而且這526家幾乎是大企業"},{"start":380.516,"end":391.825,"text":"獨厚大企業那一般的中小企業的你們有沒有在輔導這個部分的話我們還是就經濟部的資料來講的話經濟部會持續在推動所謂的輔導中心經濟部我們請問何次長"},{"start":397.233,"end":405.378,"text":"你們有沒有認真說這個兩端的幾段話其實我們對中小企業最主要還是也輔導中小企業為主可是目前裡面526家我們將近有10萬家的製造業你只有輔導526家這比例原則會讓未來的話沒有跟上的話就被淘汰了跟我們報告我們的報告裡面是有1723家我們已經有協助這麼多的家屬來協助他們做AI技術的運用總共有將近10萬家"},{"start":427.33,"end":441.56,"text":"對 所以我們現在還是持續在輔導輔導當中所以我們希望你們擴大輔導的這些資源這些能量不然的話沒有跟上去的人就會被淘汰了而且不要都獨厚大企業變成大企業的專利好不好是 謝謝謝謝李議員"}]}},{"id":"168133","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168133","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c4c72c5629f78967e811c6ac3ddeb80e0afe627a357cd2d7fae5e27c9773548e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:14:33 - 11:24:07","影片長度":"00:09:34","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林沛祥等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林德福等31人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員涂權吉等23人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員許宇甄等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員黃健豪等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員羅智強等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員游顥等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員賴士葆等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員羅明才等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法繼承編施行法增訂第十二條條文草案」案。\n【4月1日及2日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:14:33+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:24:07+08:00","duration":574,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-5-36-5"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.160343750000003,"end":11.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.89409375,"end":12.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.015968750000003,"end":15.707843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.09596875,"end":53.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.507843750000006,"end":59.869718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.869718750000004,"end":98.34471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.81721875000001,"end":109.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.94221875000001,"end":111.70971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.79409375,"end":116.50221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.06346875000001,"end":116.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.50221875000001,"end":116.75534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.75534375000001,"end":117.36284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.77221875000001,"end":116.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.70034375,"end":126.64409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.86346875000001,"end":129.64784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.12034375000002,"end":131.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.44096875,"end":130.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.16659375,"end":157.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.25096875,"end":131.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.04784375,"end":135.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.32784375,"end":152.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.36159375,"end":152.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.71096875,"end":162.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.24596875,"end":235.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.50471875000002,"end":235.55534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.57221875000002,"end":235.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.69034375,"end":257.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.98221875,"end":270.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.85784375000003,"end":271.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.87471875,"end":270.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.34721875,"end":273.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.77721875000003,"end":282.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.99534375,"end":282.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.92346875000004,"end":305.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.39534375,"end":288.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.52534375,"end":292.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.85659375,"end":308.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.13471875000005,"end":313.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.18534375,"end":308.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.51784375,"end":316.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.82971875000004,"end":321.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.12409375000004,"end":324.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.19534375,"end":327.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.93784375,"end":327.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.01784375,"end":327.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.21596875,"end":350.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.82846875,"end":369.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.98159375,"end":407.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.98409375,"end":412.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.15221875000003,"end":421.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.82159375000003,"end":437.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.98784375,"end":443.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.29909375000005,"end":501.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.92534375,"end":460.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.77721875000003,"end":463.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.63034375,"end":485.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.25221875000005,"end":535.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.9809687500001,"end":538.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.7865937500001,"end":558.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.7859687499999,"end":542.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.1315937500001,"end":544.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.1397187499999,"end":546.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.61221875,"end":546.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.59346875,"end":568.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.1572187500001,"end":572.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.90784375,"end":573.8484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.17784375,"end":572.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.89909375,"end":574.33784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.544,"end":33.966,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請次長有請次長委員好次長好 我想今天我有三個問題主要就是有關於這個民法1223條的一個邏輯上面的問題就是說我們在針對民法第1233條我們針對於兄弟姐妹特留份的一些檢討那在現行制度之下 兄弟姐妹的排行"},{"start":34.887,"end":52.929,"text":"繼承的順序是排在祖父母前面那今天其實有非常多的討論都是在討論刪除兄弟姐妹的一個特留份那我也了解這是因為整個制度的變遷嘛所以現在因應時代的變化所以我們有這樣子的一個刪除但是我想今天我們在刪除兄弟姐妹特留份的時候那"},{"start":53.63,"end":76.121,"text":"排行在兄弟姊妹之後的祖父母是不是也應該要一併來刪除呢想請教次長的意見各位報告當然委員有提供提供這種版本祖父母部分的特別婚事也要刪除但本部的立場是認為祖父母他畢竟是直系血親他跟兄弟姊妹旁立血親他的親入遠近關係還是不同啦另外就是說外國的立法例上七個祖父母他還是有"},{"start":76.881,"end":98.086,"text":"維持他的這個特留份的立法例第三個就是說目前整個我們刪除祖父母特留份的部分社會其實比較少在討論的維持現代的繼承狀態 順位狀態其實在外界沒有太大爭議的話本部是認為這部分先暫時還是維持祖父母的特留份的部分"},{"start":98.834,"end":117.171,"text":"好 那我自己會認為說因為聽起來就是說他的程序雖然是在後面但是因為今天比較沒有在討論所以我們就先保留聽起來我的解讀好像是這樣就是說祖父母他畢竟是直系血親對 但是直系血親上面我們現在還是把他排在順位的後面嘛 對不對畢竟你"},{"start":117.771,"end":132.942,"text":"你雖然是認定他直系水準可是你的立法上面就已經把他放在後面的順序那這件事情不是也應該要一併的來檢討嗎到底適不適合不然我覺得這個邏輯上面似乎有一點點體力上面這個我們已經列入我們會議中討論了會討論了"},{"start":135.183,"end":157.015,"text":"但是跟我們報告就是說 祖父母跟繼承人的關係有時候比較在現實社會上 因為兄弟姊妹他也比較疏離了但祖父母畢竟直系現在的社會裡面 祖父母跟背景人住在一起比兄弟姊妹搞不好還多需要撫養的搞不好還多如果把他特留份也剝奪掉他影響層面搞不好更大比兄弟姊妹還更大"},{"start":157.745,"end":174.691,"text":"好 了解那再來第二個問題也是想要請教就是說剛剛次長也有提到嘛因為多數的兄弟姊妹可能平常來回不生嘛然後特別是現在不婚不生的一個比例上升的狀況之下那也有可能有另外一個狀況就是說他們長期是跟兄弟姊妹住在一起"},{"start":175.771,"end":195.036,"text":"那實際上面照顧這個被繼承人甚至生活照料就醫陪伴處理生活撫養等等的都是由兄弟姐妹來承擔了主要的責任那如果今天就是完全刪除了他們的特留份那一旦被繼承人透過遺囑把財產全部留給其他人那這些兄弟姐妹擔任長期照顧者的"},{"start":195.436,"end":218.606,"text":"兄弟姊妹最後在法律上面反而一無所有那這也是有一些人擔心的問題那我們也有看到日本在2018年修法的時候他進一步也增設了貢獻粉的這個制度也就是讓不是繼承人的親屬如果被繼承人有相當的照顧或其他的特別貢獻也可以依法向繼承人來請求相當程度的貢獻程度支付金錢"},{"start":219.486,"end":234.466,"text":"所以這個其實就是日本有考量到我們剛剛講的這個狀況那我想要請教就是說如果今天法務部的方向是要強化個人的財產自由擴大移住自由的話那同時我們如果又要維持繼承制度中的家庭照顧倫理"},{"start":235.968,"end":257.55,"text":"那就不能夠只是單一刪除一項權利卻不來處理他的貢獻要如何被承認否則最後就是修法會保護到的是形式上的一組滯留卻忽略了實際上的照顧付出所以我想要請教法務部針對於這個修法後要如何來保障這些長期真正承擔了這些照顧責任的兄弟姊妹呢"},{"start":259.091,"end":279.179,"text":"對 如同委員剛所提的 我們一旦的完全刪除兄弟姊妹特留份的時候就會產生委員所這個簡報上面所提的問題那兄弟姊妹他如果本身是消極的被撫養的當然或者積極的撫養別人的這部分我們要不要做一個配套的處理所以我們一直主張就是說在兄弟姊妹被消極的被撫養的時候應該要有一個遺產著給請求權"},{"start":282.961,"end":305.336,"text":"在兄弟姊妹積極的撫養別人的時候應該要有一個貢獻份的概念所以我們配套措施在消極面跟積極面我們都認為應該要去補充所以我說在刪除兄弟姊妹特留份的這個架構底下法務部一直主張是不是要有兩條或三條的條文去做這個補充性的讓這個權益做成相互的平衡"},{"start":305.916,"end":326.687,"text":"所以我們現在法務部已經有提出條文了嗎沒有 這個正在研擬目前我們正在準備要開第二次會議了那大概預估的進度是什麼時候我今天會議一來講就是說我們希望在這個會期結束之前我們的草案能夠完成預告完成進行預告 提出預告完成提出預告是嗎對"},{"start":328.397,"end":349.347,"text":"我想這個可能要再加速啦因為我想民間非常關注這件事情等到結束前才提出預告我覺得時間實在是有點太慢了啦所以我這個希望可以再加速啦那最後一題就是說針對於法服酬金這件事情我也想要跟次長來討論一下就是說我們在法律輔助的制度的存在就是要保障那些沒有資源的人嘛對不對因為有錢人根本就不需要要用到法服嘛"},{"start":350.928,"end":369.074,"text":"可是我們一方面要求律師承擔公益件的案件可是一方面我們卻讓這個酬金標準停留在20年前法服基金會從2004年設立到現在我們一般案件的每一個計算則算的數額都是1000元20年前的一個陽春麵"},{"start":370.074,"end":397.093,"text":"是二三十塊現在的一碗陽春麵五十塊以上五十塊以上所以我們的物價指數已經改變得非常非常多了如果我們來看物價指數的成長已經成長了27.3%可是我們現在法服律是領的還是二十年前的一個報酬標準我認為這個非常的不合理啦因為我想法服案件不是只是把名字掛上去嘛畢竟整個過程之中他可能要接見月券撰狀出庭和當事人反覆溝通釐清"},{"start":397.913,"end":421.171,"text":"許多案件其實需要投入大量的時間跟專業那我們雖然現在在法服酬金計負辦法裡面有標準工時表也有佐減佐增的規定可是呢基數不變其實在一個過低的基礎上就算再怎麼細節的調整它還是非常的低啦所以2024年的時候立法院其實已經有決議啦要每三年"},{"start":421.932,"end":443.775,"text":"依據物價指數來檢討一次但是現在似乎上還沒有具體的落實那我想針對於資源不足的地方會更直接的影響我們的律師來承接這些案件的意願也會影響我們的制度的可延續性所以我想要請教司法院法服律師的酬金20年沒有調整現在有沒有明確的調整時程呢"},{"start":444.878,"end":462.831,"text":"向委員報告 司法院有成立這個法府的監管會 那麼主辦廳有就這個酬金的調整做一個很詳細跟公平的研究 就是支持合理酬金的調整 但是"},{"start":463.672,"end":484.341,"text":"不太適合齊頭式的一個基數齊頭式的一個調整這樣齊頭式的調整有一個不公平的缺點就是案件它有繁重跟比較簡單那麼如果一律用這樣的基數去算尤其近年來這個詐欺案件太多"},{"start":484.921,"end":500.798,"text":"那對於這個是法服這樣的一個籌金的負擔會很沉重但司法院有研擬一個合理調整的方案現在正在非常詳細的研擬中有一定要調整是的"},{"start":501.311,"end":515.45,"text":"我希望就是說因為我覺得這個方案不太確定是說是由誰來做這個調整這個行政裁量我不太確定到底是如何進行但是因為我時間已經到我有一個簡單的訴求希望司法院可以來參考"},{"start":516.431,"end":535.183,"text":"就是說我是還是希望可以把最低的則算數而定期的檢討週期以及物價指數聯動的機制來寫進我們的法律輔助法好要讓大家知道說我們是會有制度上面要求國家定期的來面對這件事情所以不曉得說我們是不是可以把這樣子的一個機制明文錄法呢想聽"},{"start":536.404,"end":558.235,"text":"聽一下我們司法院是不是可以簡單回應一下現在目前在研擬的方案內剛剛委員的說明我帶回去馬上向我們的主管報告同時我們的主管廳司法行政廳我會去把這些議題都帶給他們可以來加入研擬研究以上"},{"start":558.635,"end":573.404,"text":"好那我這樣子好不好因為看起來就是說我們會很快來進行這樣子的討論那我是不是可以兩個禮拜來追蹤一下我們相關的進度好嗎看知道一下現在進度到哪裡是我帶回去會報告回報好那我兩禮拜之後會再追蹤好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168132","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168132","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c7aba01f5505e6af0331a35e1dda586aeafe627a357cd2d7f4999303e8e406dd25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"11:18:22 - 11:21:04","影片長度":"00:02:42","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「能源轉型政策下我國產業發展布局，及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就「AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及扶助政策規劃與執行情形」進行報告，並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:18:22+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:21:04+08:00","duration":162,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.51596875,"end":2.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.34284375,"end":3.1359687500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.03034375,"end":5.042843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.61659375,"end":6.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.865343750000001,"end":9.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.122218750000002,"end":16.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.82159375,"end":18.981593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.28534375,"end":26.980343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.18284375,"end":33.274718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.73034375,"end":36.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.79346875,"end":34.860968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.39659375,"end":39.619718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.97409375,"end":49.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.643468750000004,"end":53.204093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.47409375,"end":57.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.080968750000004,"end":59.549093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.633468750000006,"end":66.33284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.63659375,"end":68.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.57721875,"end":73.69034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.90971875000001,"end":77.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.14534375000001,"end":80.05221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.13659375,"end":80.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.17034375,"end":82.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.44846875,"end":83.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.11909375,"end":85.50284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.50284375000001,"end":90.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.21096875,"end":91.18971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.49346875,"end":92.30346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.49346875,"end":93.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.45534375000001,"end":92.47221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.59034375,"end":94.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.88534375,"end":96.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.96971875000001,"end":97.78784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.64034375,"end":104.26784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.47971875,"end":98.80034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.82471875,"end":148.17659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.19346875000002,"end":155.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.07409375,"end":158.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.97221875,"end":161.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.97596875000002,"end":163.48221875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":3.019,"text":"大家要注意時間跳過沒有再回頭了"},{"start":5.94,"end":32.775,"text":"現在是沒辦法 剛才在質詢外交部 剛好時間重疊那也是在問關於天然氣相關的事情市長我們一樣就是講這個能源供應鏈跟這個五角穩定的問題那現在聽起來是三四五月都已經鞏固了 六月還在掉那我們現在就不進入細節 我就想請教一下那我們現在怎麼樣分散這樣子的風險"},{"start":33.795,"end":39.477,"text":"澳洲、美國有沒有開始在講未來如果同樣發生類似這樣子挑戰的時候我們該怎麼做"},{"start":41.49,"end":63.627,"text":"我們現在中游有幾個策略就是市場買現貨然後同業調貨然後就提前取貨那這三個策略我們是交叉在運用當中所以目前來講油原的那個氣體的部分其實我們就從澳洲美國還有一些其他的一些非洲的一些國家"},{"start":65.067,"end":83.153,"text":"巴布亞新幾內亞等等這些國家來做調度所以未來我們也會檢討是不是中東的這個氣源的這個比例我們希望能夠降低避免又造成這些戰事這個調度的一些風險市長我們現在這個占比大概多少在中東的"},{"start":84.178,"end":98.985,"text":"中東大概三層左右大概三層,所以七層的話以哪一個地方為主?澳洲嗎?我看我們跟澳洲的澳洲三層,美國的兩層,三三二然後其他的地方就是七層八坨啊,新西寧啊,等等之類的我是這樣具體建議因為我們分血風單看起來中東這樣子的狀況它已經會是長期的風險了"},{"start":106.348,"end":132.067,"text":"那長期的風險的話儘管說我們現在要確保的是穩定的供貨也就是說我們不僅僅是說要把這個價格降低我們現在可能要追求的不是降低價格而是穩定確保我們有這樣的天然氣 氣一定要足因為我們接下來所有的你說AI的發展等等的每一項都需要能源那我們與其擔心說這個哪一個價格是最便宜的可能現在要想的是風險喔風險可能要優先於價格"},{"start":134.068,"end":161.475,"text":"因為剛才你聽到了332這樣子的這種大概八成左右其中的三成是在中東三成是在澳洲兩成在美國我可能這個調配速度要把它往上再往上走一點美國的部分跟澳洲的部分都要往上走一點然後確保說地緣政治風險的地方我們把它拿掉這個是我覺得是必須講的那謝謝主席那我想今天就答應兩分鐘就兩分鐘好 謝謝關天真是楷模啊謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168131","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168131","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c44aa65d07e815d54331a35e1dda586aeafe627a357cd2d7fb066f83588e7a26e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:13:00 - 11:18:00","影片長度":"00:05:00","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「能源轉型政策下我國產業發展布局，及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就「AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及扶助政策規劃與執行情形」進行報告，並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:13:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:18:00+08:00","duration":300,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.08159375,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.257843750000001,"end":7.287218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.5572187500000005,"end":8.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.09721875,"end":8.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.00346875,"end":16.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16.70346875,"end":22.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.06534375,"end":26.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.997218750000002,"end":27.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.047843750000002,"end":31.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.23721875,"end":30.878468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.27909375,"end":33.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.455968750000004,"end":34.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.23221875,"end":37.814093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.290968750000005,"end":37.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":37.35846875,"end":40.345343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.814093750000005,"end":38.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.969718750000006,"end":44.024093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":43.821593750000005,"end":43.838468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.838468750000004,"end":43.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":43.85534375,"end":43.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.97346875,"end":43.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":44.024093750000006,"end":44.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.05784375,"end":44.159093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.159093750000004,"end":52.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":51.70221875,"end":56.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.12346875,"end":56.916593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":56.44409375,"end":58.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.97534375,"end":60.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.73034375,"end":63.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.09284375000001,"end":65.47221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":65.67471875000001,"end":70.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":70.38284375,"end":73.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.48784375000001,"end":76.64346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.67721875000001,"end":79.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.61346875000001,"end":82.34721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":82.54971875000001,"end":88.25346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.55721875,"end":88.70909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.67534375000001,"end":89.13096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.31659375000001,"end":91.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.50596875000001,"end":93.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.88971875,"end":99.62721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.67784375000001,"end":104.08221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.43659375,"end":106.42784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.49534375,"end":112.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.16534375,"end":125.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.40534375,"end":118.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.44596875,"end":132.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.05659375000002,"end":133.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.71471875,"end":134.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.38971875000001,"end":144.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.69284375,"end":140.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":141.71346875,"end":142.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":143.67096875000001,"end":152.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.27284375000002,"end":162.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.84096875,"end":163.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.75221875,"end":167.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.07659375,"end":174.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.41721875000002,"end":174.43409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.43409375000002,"end":174.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.70409375,"end":174.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.95721875,"end":176.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.96534375000002,"end":179.00721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.15909375,"end":181.58909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.79159375,"end":181.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.87596875,"end":182.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.97721875000002,"end":182.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.95596875,"end":183.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":182.97284375,"end":185.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":186.73596875,"end":187.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":187.91721875000002,"end":198.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.94596875000002,"end":193.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.01346875000002,"end":193.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.33409375000002,"end":193.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":198.54846875,"end":202.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.66596875000002,"end":202.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":202.98659375000003,"end":203.49284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.89784375000002,"end":204.30284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.94409375,"end":205.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.01159375,"end":217.34721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":215.98034375,"end":217.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":217.34721875000002,"end":217.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.41471875000002,"end":217.43159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":217.43159375000002,"end":217.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.48221875000002,"end":217.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":217.66784375,"end":217.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.97159375,"end":218.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.03909375,"end":239.65596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.43971875000003,"end":222.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.88596875000002,"end":226.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.33284375000002,"end":231.80909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":239.68971875000003,"end":246.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":246.35534375,"end":250.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.52346875,"end":260.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.97034375,"end":253.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":253.64534375000002,"end":253.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":253.94909375,"end":256.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.90221875000003,"end":259.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":260.96909375,"end":262.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":263.29784375,"end":270.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.95971875000004,"end":268.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.46159375,"end":269.87909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.92971875,"end":270.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.79034375000003,"end":275.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.35971875,"end":275.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":275.38034375,"end":282.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.13534375,"end":278.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.75534375,"end":278.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.06284375,"end":285.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":284.37471875,"end":297.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.60221875,"end":291.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.02346875,"end":297.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.02659375,"end":298.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.41034375000004,"end":299.62971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.149,"text":"來麻煩請次長"},{"start":14.199,"end":39.779,"text":"業務人好我上次有問部長就是說因為我們現在是天然氣在現貨市場去搶大概比原來貴多少他說大概一船是貴11億如果20幾艘的話大概就已經中右大概多虧了200多億都多付出200多億那現在有最新的數據嗎可能有沒有這個張總就是不斷在搶嘛那預計大概要搶幾艘"},{"start":41.485,"end":60.047,"text":"呃就每個月的船期都排好的嗎?對那因應這個要經過荷姆斯海峽的船的話呢我們目前就去找替代了所以那個數量都是一定的多少嗎?因為我們那個主席控制我們時間控制很緊你可不可以針對問題回答好對事件是說二十幾艘啦那那還要再增加嗎?"},{"start":61.085,"end":86.401,"text":"差不多到6月底就是這個數字但是如果說暫時拖長的話比如說7月8月的話很可能就繼續延續下去就不只多增加200多億可能300多億400多億都可能嘛那上次我問那個部長說那怎麼辦中油怎麼辦那現在他的解決方案是說中油要提出增資計畫那我退回去看一下中油的增資計畫有一個背景是因為中油的負債比很高啦大概92%然後累虧大概800多億"},{"start":89.442,"end":102.447,"text":"然後每一年的利息就孵了非常多但很奇怪的是因為之前中油類似的狀況也有跟經濟部提出政治計畫但是都被打回票打回票的理由是說中油都還有盈餘849億"},{"start":104.508,"end":132.4,"text":"那我就不懂啦為什麼之前增資被打回票理由有盈餘現在又忽然間說增資很重要原因是什麼跟委員報告那個是淨值不是盈餘啦是淨值因為畢竟就是說他的這個就是負債比拉高因為經濟部最近才打回票現在忽然間又要大家去支持他增資計畫中間的轉折是什麼"},{"start":134.508,"end":162.241,"text":"因為最主要是這一次的這個中東的戰事是因為中東的戰事喔中東的戰事讓他的這個就是美軍吸收的成本會增加所以主要是中東戰事所以才忽然間進一步改變立場要去支持他的政治計畫那剛剛講到就是因為中東戰事的關係所以多付出的成本是大概兩百多億嘛兩百多億那我想問那為什麼他政治計畫是三千五百億"},{"start":163.96,"end":185.618,"text":"為什麼 你如果說是要打消它的累虧800多億再加上現在可能增加了兩三百億 那就1000億啊那為什麼中油要增資3500億 理由是什麼跟委員報告齁 其實剛委員估算的只是氣的部分其實油的部分還沒有加進來所以油是多少 油大概預計會多付出多少成本"},{"start":186.772,"end":201.683,"text":"預計大概65億美金65億美金是因為中東戰事的關係所以加起來你覺得是3500億所以3500億就不含別的就純粹是因為中東戰事所衍生出來的成本增加就3500億"},{"start":205.285,"end":227.692,"text":"這麼多?三千五百億是中友提出的是四年三千五百億那我們會評估到底這三千五百億有沒有需要所以我們現在目前報到行政人員沒有這麼多因為你們現在那時候部長就講說已經提了三千五百億報到行政人員是一千多億 一千七百億一千七百億而已是不是再我問一下再一分鐘就好"},{"start":227.932,"end":249.891,"text":"沒有沒有 剛剛大家都可以喔 因為我一個小問題就好一個小問題就是因為大家現在在質疑說中油他油價公式啊以前是七成杜拜三成布蘭特油嘛但是現在其實我們購買的比例美國油是比較多大概六成中東降到四成以下那之前大家在問啊中油是說這公司有沒有訂的 去問經濟部啊經濟部現在立場怎麼樣"},{"start":251.273,"end":269.687,"text":"中友目前也委託一些經濟部的立場給他回答一下經濟部的立場你們希望他能夠調整嗎我們會來做一個檢討什麼時候檢討因為隨時每一週都在動你不能夠拖到流年馬月去什麼時候會有一個公式公式的調整方案什麼時候"},{"start":270.908,"end":296.514,"text":"可能至少半年啦 半年左右要半年 那這半年這半年呢 大家中油多調的部分咧為什麼要半年呢 因為你每週都在調油價嘛那公司竟然發現有問題 為什麼不立刻調油因為這個可能要做一個更深入的一些沒有 我覺得這樣可能大家不太能夠接受啦大家可能不太能接受中油有很多的一些成本沒有加進來那這可能兩回事嘛 你現在他已經提政治計畫了嘛這一碼歸一碼嘛 不要全部的事情都混在一起了謝謝 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168130","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168130","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c597313e2656be653811c6ac3ddeb80e0afe627a357cd2d7f4a3685e9cc37c4ee5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝龍介","委員發言時間":"11:07:07 - 11:14:21","影片長度":"00:07:14","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林沛祥等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林德福等31人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員涂權吉等23人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員許宇甄等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員黃健豪等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員羅智強等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員游顥等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員賴士葆等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員羅明才等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法繼承編施行法增訂第十二條條文草案」案。\n【4月1日及2日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:07:07+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:14:21+08:00","duration":434,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-5-36-5"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.189093750000001,"end":15.724718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.84284375,"end":16.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.89284375,"end":22.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.926593750000002,"end":20.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.11159375,"end":25.242218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.149093750000002,"end":28.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.96721875,"end":32.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.869718750000004,"end":33.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.25346875,"end":35.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.87346875,"end":38.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.82659375,"end":40.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.22721875,"end":45.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.88034375,"end":54.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.16159375,"end":71.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.28971875,"end":78.38159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.58409375000001,"end":82.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.24159375,"end":85.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.27909375,"end":90.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.40909375000001,"end":91.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.62846875000001,"end":93.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.61971875,"end":107.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.29346875,"end":102.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.01471875,"end":104.45346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.35159375,"end":119.03346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.82659375,"end":124.92284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.04909375000001,"end":142.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.63096875000002,"end":130.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.28409375,"end":135.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.10596875000002,"end":142.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.67534375,"end":145.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.77221875,"end":144.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.47659375,"end":152.07471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.78346875,"end":153.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.39096875,"end":165.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.41159375,"end":158.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.70534375,"end":171.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.19409375,"end":172.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.91971875000002,"end":172.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.72971875000002,"end":174.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.61534375000002,"end":185.35221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.22971875000002,"end":194.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.20721875,"end":203.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.49409375000002,"end":195.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.43346875,"end":210.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.57596875000002,"end":213.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.47846875000002,"end":219.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.27096875,"end":224.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.40596875000003,"end":219.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.99159375000002,"end":226.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.32034375,"end":229.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.94471875000002,"end":228.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.22284375,"end":231.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.96096875,"end":233.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.47971875000002,"end":239.67284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.80034375000002,"end":234.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.24659375000002,"end":241.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.96784375000001,"end":247.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.01846875,"end":242.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.01409375000003,"end":243.48659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.82346875000002,"end":259.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.24034375000002,"end":253.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.37034375,"end":258.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.63596875,"end":272.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.42034375000003,"end":263.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.07346875,"end":269.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.49471875,"end":274.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.17346875000004,"end":277.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.48534375,"end":279.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.21909375,"end":282.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.38784375,"end":281.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.72096875,"end":283.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.19346875,"end":287.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.34534375000004,"end":284.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.91846875000005,"end":313.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.44096875,"end":293.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.93784375,"end":300.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.93971875,"end":317.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.39471875000004,"end":322.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.91721875,"end":324.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.95471875000004,"end":326.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.69284375,"end":328.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.75596875,"end":340.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.99034375,"end":341.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.96909375,"end":343.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.47909375,"end":345.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.93471875,"end":348.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.22909375,"end":356.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.79784375,"end":360.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.52721875000003,"end":363.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.31159375000004,"end":369.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.06596875,"end":384.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.50284375,"end":383.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.56159375000004,"end":386.53596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.21096875,"end":392.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.74159375000005,"end":395.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.53846875000005,"end":400.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.23846875000004,"end":413.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.40096875,"end":414.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.98721875,"end":415.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.48909375000005,"end":418.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.54784375,"end":422.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.28971875,"end":424.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.42034375000003,"end":426.22596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.43659375000004,"end":429.14534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.52471875000003,"end":431.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.97596875000005,"end":433.73534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.372,"end":28.043,"text":"主席 我要請他出場一下好 請次長主席 我請教你喔 辛苦啊三位弟齁算長嘛齁"},{"start":30.014,"end":39.247,"text":"您敢不想去投行、分林、高雄,去欠債有嗎?對,聯合稽查你欠債什麼?就是物價看有沒有壟斷或豐台或什麼什麼壟斷"},{"start":46.476,"end":71.026,"text":"壟斷就是我們公民交易法上面有一些聯合行為的壟斷那你如果發現有人異常囤貨壟斷的時候你怎麼處理這看有行政上的處理跟行事上的處理行政上的處理就是行政主管機關他會進行如果有的話會進行採訪如果有刑事案件的話我們就會發交給地檢署去做他壟斷了嘛他已經壟斷了囤貨了你要行事上怎麼處理"},{"start":72.715,"end":77.518,"text":"公民交易法他要行政機關先進行相關的裁罰自己相關的裁罰你不用請人去調查,他就壟斷啦,你看啊,風台物價,不然你們是在欺負什麼"},{"start":91.926,"end":103.873,"text":"該不會叫行政機關去裁判,卡到你們去扣渣,這樣就在作秀啊不一定,它如果涉及到有可能刑法251條有囤積拘獲這條罪它有可能會涉及刑事犯罪251條是什麼囤積積起這個犯罪251條是說意圖抬高交易價格嘛,囤積嘛對無證當理由則處三年以下有期徒刑嘛對"},{"start":119.875,"end":124.548,"text":"然後這是三十萬法科這裡面有三款是什麼"},{"start":127.079,"end":151.66,"text":"就是你囤積的物品他要限定這三款囤積什麼物品啊第一個第一款當然就是相關的飲食物品第二個是這個原料啦糧食農產品或其他民生必須之飲食物品嘛齁這第一啊塑膠袋要感謝這個嗎不是第二種苗肥料原料或其他農業工業必須之物品嘛對塑膠袋要感謝"},{"start":153.991,"end":174.651,"text":"塑膠袋本身不是,它有可能會有顏料的問題塑膠袋不是嘛塑膠袋不是,那第三前兩款以外經行政院公告之生火必須用品如果這樣塑膠袋應該是稍微這條了吧這個要等行政院公告好,要等行政院公告"},{"start":175.666,"end":203.468,"text":"那請問你行政院有公告嗎?這部分行政院院會已經有決議就要請經濟部來報告行政院他有公告嗎?目前還沒有我感覺你們實在是無農無地無稻為了一個塑膠袋民間沒有風台你們自己就先風台啊那你就衝到人心惶惶吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼吼�"},{"start":205.492,"end":229.258,"text":"行政院他也沒有公告那上次衛生紙在烘台也沒有看到行政院公告啊行政院有史也到今天有公告哪一項是民生必需品要杜絕這個囤貨烘台物價有沒有我查是沒有啊口罩沒有公告啊"},{"start":230.471,"end":243.376,"text":"應該有吧 應該有公告啊有公告嗎行政院有公告這是生活必需用品嗎你不可以囤積嘛他是直接徵收啊他哪有公告這我確認一下你有用251條去給他發到這間你告訴我"},{"start":248.067,"end":274.404,"text":"跟我們報告 事實上我們這個案件 光去年度我們就將近偵辦了一百多件 兩百五十一條案件偵辦你有做一條 用了一條 因為你都沒有符合定數 行政院就沒有公告啊當然不是只有公告 它有三款嘛三款就第一款 第二款不是 第三款就是要行政院公告嘛當然我們去查的不只這個說法 那我們立法就是兩百五十一條我就寫在這 你不想贏 行政院不想遵守"},{"start":276.223,"end":301.626,"text":"阿你為什麼要自己民搬阿你違法無辜阿不是這樣嗎行政醫生是要先講過啦對 各位他有三款啦阿你第一款 第二款不是嘛阿第三款就是要經過行政院公告嘛了解 第二款它是原料 原塑化的原料我們不只只有查塑膠袋這整個是全面去查不是只有塑膠袋你現在這樣拋下去都是塑膠漏了啦"},{"start":302.366,"end":324.274,"text":"我們這個小組跟委員報告 我們不是只有這個塑膠袋它是相關的民生物資 相關的資源 我們都會去做聯合的稽查行政院齁 我現在要跟你講這個就是這樣嘛 有發落地的嘛阿你無地無稿嘛 阿沒要慎用發掉嘛然後行政院根本就是配著做秀嘛 它是只有要做秀而已好 有人在頓 有人在頓結果勒"},{"start":327.731,"end":340.22,"text":"他也沒有要講究,他如果今天講究,你怎麼去欺負大家的違法優遇啊檢察官也違法優遇啊,也可以給他起訴啊他只有251條,他就可以辦啊不是啊,你行政他擺爛啊啊如果正經的,可以不復甦啊對不對,叫你們出來擔啊,五個頭子,八個大嘴我告訴你,這個明明你說的251條啊,不是啊"},{"start":357.831,"end":369.109,"text":"第一款、第二款真的就不是啊第三款就是要行政院公告啊該當現在的公告據我所知他們也在進行相關的公告程序"},{"start":370.177,"end":395.789,"text":"他沒說過你就沒辦法 你現在去勘測 人家都說你做瘦了他不是只有刑法251條 我剛剛講的公民交易法他有可能會涉及公民交易法的行為不是只有行政上的行為公民交易法的刑例 我數你一萬五百萬千萬我一段時間 我的原料 我的勝算 我的告費 我有頂多對不對 這是主流買的買啊"},{"start":397.571,"end":409.295,"text":"啊你不是啊 你看補助補什麼 沒有人在頓塑膠爐啊 都你政府在頓你政府出一口水在頓 頓到大家百姓都來跟我說啊現在去都沒塑膠爐 我問你 你跟我說做一間賣場沒塑膠爐啊你跟我說 我來幫你處理 每天都有 這樣是誰在頓啊你又去勘測 喔你又 欸 給你連鑼 吼 講鑼講釘 去人家說要來勘測你剛去王王隊 左翁台去陪盟"},{"start":428.479,"end":428.499,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168129","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168129","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c34809d5237e66afc331a35e1dda586aeafe627a357cd2d7f9b0160faa0cdae515ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:08:30 - 11:12:49","影片長度":"00:04:19","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「能源轉型政策下我國產業發展布局，及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就「AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及扶助政策規劃與執行情形」進行報告，並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:08:30+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:12:49+08:00","duration":259,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.36409375,"end":3.0178437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.37221875,"end":11.269718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.84346875,"end":12.113468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.41721875,"end":13.480343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.00346875,"end":16.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.70346875,"end":17.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.06534375,"end":24.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.34346875,"end":25.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.96784375,"end":27.098468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.23346875,"end":33.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.37596875,"end":44.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.445968750000006,"end":62.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.24659375,"end":52.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.97471875,"end":68.22284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.54346875,"end":83.39346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.60034375000001,"end":88.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.92909375,"end":88.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.92846875000001,"end":89.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.63721875,"end":94.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.65409375,"end":90.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.27784375,"end":97.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.20159375,"end":98.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.44596875,"end":99.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.37409375,"end":99.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.72846875,"end":99.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.98159375,"end":99.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.99846875,"end":100.72409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.01534375,"end":104.04846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.29346875,"end":102.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.54221875,"end":124.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.17221875000001,"end":124.33221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.70346875000001,"end":129.25971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.54659375,"end":134.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.27596875,"end":136.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.40221875,"end":143.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.71784375000001,"end":141.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.70471875,"end":148.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.53096875,"end":148.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.95284375,"end":152.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.76659375,"end":158.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.58846875,"end":160.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.88346875000002,"end":161.76096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.92971875,"end":164.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.88284375,"end":177.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.92471875,"end":168.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.85659375,"end":171.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.03784375,"end":172.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.91909375,"end":176.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.21846875,"end":184.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.52534375000002,"end":187.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.39846875,"end":186.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.78221875,"end":190.78596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.78596875000002,"end":191.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.05159375000002,"end":193.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.63784375,"end":193.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.89096875,"end":198.00846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.35471875000002,"end":197.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.00846875000002,"end":198.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.39221875,"end":203.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.39596875,"end":202.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.56034375000002,"end":209.36534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.36534375000002,"end":209.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.61846875,"end":212.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.98096875000002,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.12409375000001,"end":215.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.33909375000002,"end":219.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.91221875000002,"end":228.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.96596875,"end":227.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.73784375000002,"end":235.85909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.66596875000002,"end":230.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.47159375,"end":232.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.30221875,"end":236.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.97284375,"end":239.43659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.28909375,"end":251.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.16221875000002,"end":240.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.28034375000001,"end":240.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.68784375,"end":257.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.03346875000003,"end":254.11784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.88534375,"end":260.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.44221875,"end":258.06659375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":16.146,"text":"請李昆成委員剛剛那個三大方案那個三大因應方案要把過去一個月執行的狀況以及未來三個月執行的目標可能提一個素面資料好 請李昆成委員好 謝謝主席那我們就請何市長請金門何市長"},{"start":23.64,"end":43.714,"text":"市長好 請教一下這個我們現在我前兩天去買那一個紅豆餅那紅豆餅他本來都會附一個小的塑膠袋給我那現在他已經沒有一個塑膠袋給我了我就自己用這個紙包裝拿著也OK啦但是我就是要問這個市長我們現在塑膠袋到底有沒有缺貨的問題"},{"start":44.525,"end":61.801,"text":"其實塑膠袋的這個生產的部分其實應該是不會有斷料短缺的部分原料沒有短缺的問題對 尤其這個像這個最上有的這個乙烯的部分其實中油今天已經增加這個釋清的這個產能那賣場到現在去賣場買這個塑膠袋一定都買得到嗎"},{"start":68.587,"end":82.964,"text":"是 我們當然就是說希望能夠讓每一個賣場都能夠有充足的塑膠袋的供應但是我們也呼籲民眾就是不要搶購或是囤積因為這個讓整個市場的機制會錯亂那民眾為什麼會有搶購或囤積還是怕說 第一個會漲價第二個他可能會買不到"},{"start":88.953,"end":116.702,"text":"可能都是 那源頭就在於說如果我們這個供應量充足的話 是不是就沒有這些問題對 所以我們就是說盡量 那我們現在的供應量夠不夠 能不能化解民眾這個囤積搶購單機漲價的問題 我們已經跟這個20家的跟塑膠袋 衣材 包材的這些生產廠商已經都已經有做一些了解 然後他們也強調就是說 就是"},{"start":117.182,"end":128.944,"text":"配合國內的這個供應的這個生產那他們來做一些市長能夠保證就是我們如果去我今天去賣場買水稻菜一定都買得到嗎"},{"start":129.891,"end":157.072,"text":"當然這個就會有很多的狀況這狀況就如何我們可以講我當然不是說就一般的這個大賣場的話我們希望他就充足供應我們每天也都有在做一些調查那目前的供應是大賣場的供應是OK的不要像之前有所謂的這一個大家囤積衛生紙這個衛生紙這麼大包也去囤積希望這個因為上次蘇院長就去查所以就是二者這個囤積這個衛生紙"},{"start":158.993,"end":174.157,"text":"這次的垃圾那個塑膠袋不要演變成過去大家囤積的那個位置是怎樣好不好是 我們經濟部也在呼籲也不是只有呼籲啊呼籲而且也希望說大家能夠來配合要去查我們現在這個昨天法務部已經也啟動這個稽查的這個動作了"},{"start":177.298,"end":202.793,"text":"好 那就請教一下 我們現在這個液化淺染器你說到六月都沒有問題嗎?是不是?對這有確定嗎?是 目前六月還差一點點啦不過我想應該沒問題我們的現在安全存量還是在12天嗎?對 現在法定是11天法規11天 所以我們是有超過這樣的一個那才多一天啊 12天啊 對那這個 這個安全的期限能夠再延長嗎?能夠再增加嗎?"},{"start":203.593,"end":230.541,"text":"那我們是希望除潮能夠增加因為明年法定存量就14天所以就是一定要達到這樣的一個所以那個除潮 我們除潮夠嗎目前應該就是有些在建制中應該是夠的啦最後一個問題 我請教一下就是說我們現在主要是天然氣從卡達澳洲過來嘛對不對那美國部分有增加嗎還是有增加 美國 澳洲"},{"start":231.341,"end":258.235,"text":"這個部分那現在大概比例是多少本來是大概10%現在這樣兩成五左右就美國的部分就對了未來會再增加會再增加再三成以上因為這個液化天然氣很重要因為我們現在的這個發電大部分是用這一個產生液化天然氣你如果沒有充足的這個液化天然氣的話我也很擔心電價會跟著漲不然你就變成燃煤要增加了這個就是未來這個經濟部要注意的部分好 了解好 謝謝謝謝李坤城委員"}]}},{"id":"168128","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168128","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c270ae2ea16022860e62ad2ff7c694815afe627a357cd2d7f3b12e6e223e8e7575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"10:49:44 - 11:02:44","影片長度":"00:13:00","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:49:44+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:02:44+08:00","duration":780,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.96284375,"end":7.607843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.087843750000001,"end":14.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.31971875,"end":21.512843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.356593750000002,"end":23.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.63471875,"end":25.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.33909375,"end":28.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.735343750000002,"end":31.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.73846875,"end":38.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.69971875,"end":40.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.75034375,"end":41.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.67846875,"end":48.360968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.93471875,"end":49.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.39034375,"end":49.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.47471875,"end":49.508468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.369093750000005,"end":55.29659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.70159375,"end":60.274718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.41846875,"end":58.485968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.66284375,"end":64.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.08409375000001,"end":68.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.37471875,"end":68.64471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.72909375,"end":71.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.08721875,"end":72.86346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.86346875000001,"end":73.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.06159375,"end":75.00659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.42846875000001,"end":81.06471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.45284375,"end":94.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.35784375,"end":97.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.51784375000001,"end":98.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.63159375000001,"end":105.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.25909375,"end":130.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.82909375,"end":133.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.84971875000002,"end":139.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.58284375,"end":141.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.89909375000002,"end":155.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.69846875000002,"end":158.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.21284375000002,"end":163.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.97159375,"end":220.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.45846875,"end":207.66096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.03034375000001,"end":228.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.85596875000002,"end":275.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.49659375000005,"end":260.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.04284375000003,"end":277.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.79346875000005,"end":279.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.12221875,"end":292.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.77846875,"end":297.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.41909375,"end":299.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.70971875000004,"end":304.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.48534375,"end":311.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.26909375,"end":315.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.45846875,"end":317.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.97284375000004,"end":320.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.14534375,"end":330.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.96659375,"end":335.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.87721875,"end":336.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.12596875,"end":338.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.86409375,"end":347.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.30159375,"end":347.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.68971875,"end":413.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.73846875000004,"end":418.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.68721875,"end":418.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.22284375000004,"end":420.67409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.96096875,"end":425.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.47909375,"end":428.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.97659375,"end":451.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.28096875000006,"end":461.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.92471875,"end":481.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.04846875000004,"end":514.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.27971875,"end":517.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.9584687500001,"end":529.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.5178437500001,"end":533.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.1797187500001,"end":534.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.4328437500001,"end":533.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.81659375,"end":551.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.38346875,"end":554.1553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.58971875,"end":561.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.90096875,"end":565.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.9678437499999,"end":584.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.39096875,"end":586.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.6059687500001,"end":588.1415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.47909375,"end":590.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.5209687500001,"end":597.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.94596875,"end":599.3972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.2747187500001,"end":610.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.9734687499999,"end":633.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.7590937500001,"end":633.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.2822187500001,"end":633.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.2990937500001,"end":633.3328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.68721875,"end":637.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.31534375,"end":637.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.46721875,"end":637.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.5178437500001,"end":637.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.61909375,"end":637.6359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.6359687500001,"end":637.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.75409375,"end":638.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.6147187500001,"end":638.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.7665937500001,"end":638.7834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.7834687500001,"end":644.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.0534687500001,"end":639.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.6897187500001,"end":645.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.0903437500001,"end":654.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.4734687499999,"end":651.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.3759687500001,"end":657.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.43034375,"end":686.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.8772187500001,"end":695.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.4328437500001,"end":697.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":697.94721875,"end":699.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.60096875,"end":705.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.5534687500001,"end":711.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.3459687500001,"end":711.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.4597187500001,"end":712.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.96596875,"end":713.2865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":713.82659375,"end":741.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":741.9740937500001,"end":742.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":743.2565937500001,"end":769.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":769.0247187500001,"end":769.5647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":770.0203437499999,"end":779.5715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":778.18784375,"end":779.21721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.991,"end":31.175,"text":"好 謝謝主席 主席我們要先請交通部陳部長請陳部長委員好部長好 部長一開始當然真的剛剛一個臨時提案喔這個雙黃燈使用規範我們來做個是非題啦路邊臨停的時候可以打嗎目前的法規不行 對不行那突發情況緊急減速的時候可以打嗎"},{"start":35.941,"end":47.931,"text":"緊急減速煞車燈自然會亮起可以嗎你們說可以啦我們問過你們說可以沒關係這就是大家認知不同部分沒關係車輛故障的時候可以打嗎"},{"start":48.988,"end":70.827,"text":"可以可以那遇到大雨或大霧以至前方視線不連的時候可以打雙黃燈嗎這個是開霧燈開霧燈嘛所以不行嘛沒有後霧燈才可以開嘛對不對那路邊停車倒車前用示警後方來車這時候可以打嗎打方向燈才是正確打方向燈才可以嘛不能打雙黃燈嘛禮貌的回應他車讓道可以打嗎"},{"start":72.39,"end":96.415,"text":"應該是不行 不行 好部長不愧是交通部長基本上你的答案都是對的就是除了剛剛我們這個緊急簡述的認知不太一樣之外但是我們要提到這個部分這個在交通道道交條例第42條只要誤打的或者說認知不同的他的裁罰標準不依規定使用燈光就是法1200以上3600元以下的罰款那我今天跟提出來這個討論其實不管"},{"start":98.675,"end":116.702,"text":"哪一種情況我們要去討論說到底這個規範是要適應民情還是要加強這個宣導就像剛剛部長你提到的幾個問題以這個突發情況緊急減速或者是我們經常在路邊停車的時候我們打方向燈法規上說要打方向燈但實際上怎麼樣很多人當然會打雙閃燈那被檢舉那就被罰錢了嘛"},{"start":118.143,"end":139.705,"text":"那他本來的原因當然是希望說能夠警示後方說我這邊要停車或等等的所以來打這個警示燈因為打方向燈會有什麼問題因為打方向燈除非你一次倒車路過或一次路邊停車方向盤轉一次就成功了不然你那個方向燈會跳回去耶那又會被檢舉所以我覺得這個法規應該要重新的來去檢討怎麼樣適用包含剛剛信箱委員提案的那個部分"},{"start":140.646,"end":155.664,"text":"法規怎麼改或是說這個階段是用心勸導然後去了解一下真實的使用規範原來包含說像第六點這個禮貌回應他設這樣的道路我們常常在快速道路高速公路上切車道的時候看到前車跟我們感謝就打雙紅燈我如果擷取他"},{"start":156.735,"end":178.712,"text":"他要說謝謝喔 我可以檢舉他啊一千二三千六都是罰燈就來了所以這部分交通部的立場有沒有願意去做相關的檢討跟改善報告委員這方面的規定其實是跟世界的這個標準是一致的燈號的使用這個世界有一定的標準所以我們符合世界的這個一致的規範但是委員所提的這個很務實"},{"start":179.853,"end":207.004,"text":"一般民眾到底理解或不理解我相信一般的民眾用車開車的習慣我自己也開車有一些確實跟我們一般的習慣是不太一樣所以我覺得考駕照的時候要大家讀到這麼細也有點困難所以我認為這個部分規範的部分依據國際的標準但在執法的過程我們希望以勸導為優先我們所理解的其實警方不會主動來抓這方面"},{"start":207.904,"end":227.876,"text":"那但是如果有民眾檢舉的時候我們也期待說警方是不是用勸導作為優先至少讓民眾知道說這樣子的做法可能不符合我們目前的規定那以後就要注意因為我想要討論就是還是要回到法規回到法規本身當初立這個法或是這個燈號我們在開車的時候打任何不管左轉燈右轉燈這個警示燈"},{"start":228.897,"end":250.394,"text":"他的目的是什麼嘛 今天車子設計這個警示燈 比如說我們放 我會在這個時刻有人會在路邊臨停的時候打警示燈 或在後 倒車的時候打警示燈或是禮貌的回應他車讓道 我們都很清楚他的用意 他不是為了違規或他甚至他是故 他是刻意的去做這件事情 結果他是違規的所以我覺得在宣導上面 或在法規 在這個質疑上面 應該要有一個平衡啦"},{"start":250.854,"end":269.221,"text":"要回到原意嘛他不是故意要圍堵他不是就他打了這幾次並不會造成交通事故吧沒錯好不好這部分所以交通部目前調就是往勸導的方向去去執行對我們希望可以用勸導讓民眾能夠理解好部長謝謝喔那接下來喔我想最近國人很關心所謂的汽車安全的問題我想這兩天這新聞都非常大"},{"start":269.801,"end":291.655,"text":"好有的車子獲得這個TNCAP的這個認證五顆星那有的車子已經上市了好但是呢這個平等是零顆星那零顆星呢當然他們就回應說他們的車體結構很堅實而且所有等級車款都通過國家嚴謹安全審驗並取得安全審驗合格證他講的也沒有錯他確實有取得所以他才能上市嘛那問題來了"},{"start":293.256,"end":310.988,"text":"這個當初安全誰合格證不是你們給的可是這個TNCAP是交通部的指導下的規範你們是為了行車安全也肯定這件事情沒錯可是為什麼同樣都是國家標準前面的可以上市的標準長這樣子那後面我們TNCAP給出來的這個"},{"start":312.335,"end":337.38,"text":"的撞擊測試報告裡面它的特定車款它的這個平等這麼低就變成有兩套標準那麼未來能不能要求說至少上市前你要先做過這個測試再上市才可以保障用路人安全還是說就是繼續按照現行的規範我先上市了我們再後續再來做那如果講白了這一定會造成特定車廠他們的營業有受到衝擊啦那就沒有意思了嘛所以這個問題"},{"start":339.481,"end":347.172,"text":"這個安全標準能不能在上市前就先做到還是一定要上市之後我才能做這個實行工作報告委員我是不是請局長來回答一下"},{"start":348.071,"end":374.14,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下剛剛講的一個部分的話就是TNCAP的部分它是一個市場評價比這個國家這個強制要求應該要符的標準是更高的標準那所有剛剛委員有提到就是說車輛要上市銷售之前必須要取得審驗合格證明這個部分要符合的法規基本上就是要聯合國的法規跟歐盟跟這個日本跟韓國都這個一致"},{"start":375.74,"end":390.011,"text":"那現在也就是說有一些這個做TNCAP的那個標準有一些是強制法規沒有那有一些是他要求的標準比強制法規這個標準還要高所以這個評價起來就會有一顆星兩顆星三顆星到五顆星不等的這樣子的一個這個情況"},{"start":391.152,"end":417.89,"text":"那最近有一個車型它裡面就是說評價的這個結果這個不太好的一個這個部分的話那這裡面如果說有涉及到不是強制法規要做要求而是車子本身設計可能在於品質觀念有一些瑕疵這個部分的話那就必須實施這個預警預警性的這個招勵所以現在部裡面也在做這件事情部長 局長你們剛剛講當然線型當然就是長這樣子我也清楚知道說你們"},{"start":419.298,"end":425.644,"text":"但是問題就是說今天以這個車型為例今天看到大家看到那個影片他是連椅子都會飛出去嘛"},{"start":426.73,"end":451.515,"text":"就是安全帶也沒有什麼作用嘛那未來這個事情我們在上市前有沒有辦法提高到就是說如果今天它是符合你講的法定的標準它才能出場然後我們後面再做市場上的評價那至少基本安全都要有啊但是現在至少看起來這個狀況是在第一階段它的基本安全都沒有看起來是沒有做到的才會有這個評鑑零分的狀況產生那我們今天要問的是說"},{"start":452.715,"end":480.948,"text":"這個TNCP它相關的標準能不能部分的就是至少在安全性上主動安全性上把它列入在一開始出廠的法定標準裡面這個部分我大概跟委員報告一下譬如說它這個大概涉及到這個實車碰撞項目的部分那實車碰撞的部分現行這個法規強制要求已經有了那但是在這個TNCAP的部分的話它要求是相對是比較高是相對這個更高車速更快"},{"start":482.549,"end":503.071,"text":"所以基本我剛剛才一直跟我們報告就是說就國際通用的法規在這個十幾公里要求的這個膨脹他一定要符合才能夠上市銷售那現在在TN CAP要求到56公里這個部分比較相對比較高標準的部分的話他測試出來的一個市場評價確實是不如其他的部分"},{"start":503.391,"end":528.553,"text":"但是針對這樣子的一個情況的話就是陳委員講的部分未來在這個審驗端對於車廠品質一致性管控這個部分應該是有一些可以檢討再來做加強謝謝有麻煩你們真的不要把這列入不然真的這個消費者沒保障因為這個車款都已經賣很久了我想也是車銷售量非常高那對消費者是一個很大的影響我覺得這個如果交通部能夠事前把這個標準放進去我覺得未來"},{"start":529.634,"end":549.833,"text":"有機會比較能夠保障到這個駕駛人好不好好 我們加強事前的審驗好 那接下來最後一題也是這個我快速講一下這個世襲的問題當然這個世襲問題會被揭露也是因為現在董事長本來發了公開信提到說過去可能之前的董事長 之前的主管層級或之前的顧問去領了這個相關的這個經費那我們這邊也取得相關的這個內部的會議資料 會議報告喔"},{"start":555.646,"end":584.299,"text":"金額當然這個前顧問這是之前的高層領了上千萬的這個獎金 領走了那當然目前世襲的這個說法是說他們覺得追回就好因為在相關的本來的會議裡面也提到過去在獎勵辦法在個人獎勵的部分對董事長對顧問等等他其實本來的規範是沒有的那我不知道前面發生什麼事情為什麼這個顧問或相關的這些主管能夠把這麼高額的獎金領走那現在看起來"},{"start":585.701,"end":599.147,"text":"繳回就沒事了但是呢我想四期工程喔是交通部雖然你們沒有直接持股啦但是你們基本上也算是百分之百持股因為你們轉頭再轉頭嘛都算百分之百的關股啦但是說這樣子的狀況下面"},{"start":600.339,"end":614.904,"text":"有這麼奇怪的問題發生那到底交通部立場有什麼有沒有要移送減掉還是說大家把錢繳回就不算就沒事了會有這個問題報告委員這個部分其實我們世西公司之前也經過一個很詳盡的調查"},{"start":616.445,"end":645.126,"text":"那之前的這個幹部跟這個公司的同仁有這個領的獎金的部分程序不完備的部分那所以他們公司決定說以繳回的方式來處置那這個部分也已經繳回這個部分已經繳回我知道因為我要講說所以我要問部長的意思部長的態度嗎不該領的就不要領因為這個前面領的是未經董事會同意他就把這個錢去領走也沒有相關的規定那如果這樣"},{"start":646.187,"end":669.628,"text":"今天會提出來說他如果單純就是民營公司,那可能他們公司內部董事會沒意見,那大家就沒意見那今天事先,你是最大股東,貴部是最大股東,可能也是唯一股東啦在這個情況下面,你作為最大股東,你對於這樣的狀況,你會覺得前腳就算了嗎?還是說應該要去處理,不管背信也好,這可能沒有貪汙啦,但是可能有背信的問題,因為他完全沒有相關的機制"},{"start":670.549,"end":698.184,"text":"去授權他去領這個錢那還有包含說裡面這些腐爛的報價包含大家媒體也揭露了嘛這個企業總部本來預計要買多少錢他後來因為只剩多少只剩兩千兩千多萬所以我就兩千二兩千多億我就用兩千多億去做對不起口誤本來預算這個要買的裝潢是四千萬啊買完房地產之後剩不多錢剩兩千多萬他說好那兩千多萬就夠了就是你從頭到尾預算你的實施跟你的預算是搭嘎的那這樣虛報"},{"start":699.665,"end":705.321,"text":"因為講真的 我在講的是如果他是純粹民營公司 那他們家的事情但是因為今天世新工程是"},{"start":706.581,"end":735.8,"text":"中澳交通部100%持股雖然你們沒有直接持股但是就是100%持股的狀態下這個交通部的立場是什麼向委員報告針對公司治理的部分應該要更詳盡的部分我們已經請世襲公司做檢討而他們內部的這個規範也已經做了改變那所以未來可以避免這樣的狀況發生那另外針對這個是否有法律上的問題其實我們有跟請世襲公司跟法律的專業人士還有他們自己內部的法治單位"},{"start":737.504,"end":742.401,"text":"那這個部分是目前還沒有跟我說要做這個司法上面的追溯所以"},{"start":743.308,"end":769.286,"text":"他們就算了是不是我要確定這件事情交通部也覺得沒關係目前兩關一個是世西工程本身公司裡面的法務的部分去做監管第二個他的控股公司其實是中華顧問工程師財政法院中華顧問工程師他們裡面也有做過法律上面的研析那目前就是朝向先把經費追回那建構一個更完整的公司治理的機制"},{"start":770.106,"end":778.323,"text":"好 不然部長 反正剛剛林子緹也提到了你們要請這個中央顧問同事去提出相關報告讓我們後續看報告結果怎麼樣我們再追後面的狀況啦好不好好 謝謝委員好 部長謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168127","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168127","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c380c84134ab7ef40e62ad2ff7c694815afe627a357cd2d7f69b51f63c6f260655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林俊憲","委員發言時間":"10:33:25 - 10:43:08","影片長度":"00:09:43","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:33:25+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:43:08+08:00","duration":583,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.8997187500000003,"end":4.148468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.755968750000001,"end":13.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.83784375,"end":22.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.660343750000003,"end":24.870968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.242218750000003,"end":26.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.16596875,"end":32.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.852843750000005,"end":33.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.18596875,"end":36.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.13909375,"end":38.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.11346875,"end":46.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.774718750000005,"end":48.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.90971875,"end":47.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.46659375,"end":48.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.799718750000004,"end":53.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.30096875,"end":55.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.313468750000006,"end":57.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.40159375,"end":61.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.67534375,"end":62.485343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.025343750000005,"end":65.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.74221875,"end":66.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.22721875,"end":70.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.45034375,"end":71.41221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.98596875,"end":76.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.67721875000001,"end":79.61346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.60909375,"end":82.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.47784375,"end":85.95846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.48159375,"end":88.06784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.33346875000001,"end":89.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.46409375,"end":90.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.93221875,"end":93.72096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.51409375,"end":94.76721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.23971875000001,"end":96.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.75846875,"end":100.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.38659375,"end":101.50034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.85471875,"end":102.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.05284375000001,"end":105.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.76534375,"end":107.89596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.46971875000001,"end":114.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.57409375,"end":119.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.65346875,"end":122.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.55596875,"end":125.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.91846875,"end":127.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.14596875,"end":132.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.51659375,"end":134.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.57096875000002,"end":136.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.32596875000002,"end":138.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.27096875,"end":139.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.21159375000002,"end":143.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.19409375,"end":144.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.54846875,"end":145.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.20221875000001,"end":147.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.33284375000002,"end":147.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.68721875,"end":148.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.96971875,"end":182.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.51346875000002,"end":152.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.92221875,"end":156.20909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.62221875,"end":158.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.67284375,"end":158.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.02096875,"end":172.29096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.14159375,"end":185.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.68971875000003,"end":187.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.76534375,"end":194.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.93721875,"end":195.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.66284375,"end":197.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.80596875,"end":199.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.59471875000003,"end":201.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.60284375,"end":204.33659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.33659375000002,"end":224.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.98596875,"end":207.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.02346875,"end":210.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.91284375,"end":216.23346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.89159375000003,"end":217.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.17784375000002,"end":223.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.74284375000002,"end":229.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.68284375000002,"end":236.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.96471875,"end":236.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.51721875,"end":236.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.53409375,"end":236.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.55096875,"end":236.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.61846875,"end":240.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.75346875000002,"end":236.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.90471875000003,"end":244.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.88721875000002,"end":247.26659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.80659375000002,"end":250.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.13096875000002,"end":252.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.61596875,"end":254.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.45534375000003,"end":255.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.61971875,"end":256.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.05409375,"end":258.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.50534375,"end":260.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.72846875,"end":266.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.99346875000003,"end":269.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.97596875,"end":273.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.31721875,"end":275.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.83596875,"end":277.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.67534375,"end":280.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.53971875,"end":283.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.93596875000003,"end":285.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.80909375000005,"end":287.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.96909375,"end":288.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.99846875000003,"end":289.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.96034375,"end":295.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.08596875,"end":296.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.28409375,"end":299.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.62534375,"end":303.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.42221875,"end":305.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.43034375,"end":306.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.00409375000004,"end":314.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.81721875,"end":319.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.62221875,"end":323.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.52034375,"end":326.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.49034375,"end":328.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.51534375,"end":334.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.22346875,"end":335.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.48909375,"end":336.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.55221875,"end":337.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.23971875,"end":340.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.63159375000004,"end":343.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.50034375,"end":346.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.13721875000005,"end":348.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.24659375000005,"end":351.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.63471875000005,"end":348.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.57096875,"end":351.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.49909375000004,"end":355.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.03846875000005,"end":358.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.24909375000004,"end":360.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.20659375,"end":362.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.59034375000005,"end":366.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.62346875000003,"end":369.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.91409375,"end":375.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.78659375,"end":381.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.36784375,"end":386.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.46409375,"end":388.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.94471875000005,"end":393.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.43346875000003,"end":394.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.20971875000004,"end":395.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.90159375,"end":397.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.83784375000005,"end":399.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.87971875000005,"end":401.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.02284375000005,"end":406.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.16159375,"end":407.20784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.16971875,"end":408.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.89534375000005,"end":410.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.97096875000005,"end":412.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.29971875,"end":415.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.62409375000004,"end":418.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.66596875000005,"end":419.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.84284375000004,"end":421.51784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.59784375000004,"end":423.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.35284375000003,"end":425.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.57596875,"end":429.14534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.28034375000004,"end":430.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.82846875,"end":432.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.22909375,"end":438.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.74721875,"end":440.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.90721875,"end":441.73409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.15596875000006,"end":442.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.89846875,"end":443.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.65784375000004,"end":445.98659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.56034375,"end":447.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.85971875,"end":449.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.07034375,"end":451.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.02784375000005,"end":452.70284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.09096875,"end":454.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.94721875000005,"end":455.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.87534375,"end":458.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.19971875000005,"end":459.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.02659375,"end":460.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.92096875000004,"end":463.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.60409375,"end":467.43471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.24471875,"end":470.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.24846875000003,"end":472.49721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.30721875,"end":474.67409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.89346875,"end":476.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.39534375000005,"end":478.99409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.99409375000005,"end":480.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.63096875,"end":486.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.33471875000004,"end":490.63784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.63784375000006,"end":499.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.65471875000003,"end":491.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.33284375000005,"end":499.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":499.66596875000005,"end":499.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.81784375,"end":500.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":499.90221875000003,"end":515.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.11096875,"end":517.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.91659375,"end":516.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.8234687500001,"end":532.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.02596875,"end":518.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.65784375,"end":525.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.7165937500001,"end":526.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.9228437500001,"end":535.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.78721875,"end":534.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.0359687499999,"end":535.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.08659375,"end":535.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.10346875,"end":536.7234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.39034375,"end":535.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.07784375,"end":540.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.7734687500001,"end":541.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.4990937499999,"end":548.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.3334687500001,"end":548.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.3672187500001,"end":548.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.83971875,"end":548.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.97471875,"end":560.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.66909375,"end":583.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.40659375,"end":569.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.14346875,"end":576.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.7040937500001,"end":579.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.66596875,"end":580.80096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.932,"end":13.197,"text":"好謝謝主席本席邀請我們交通部陳部長來請陳部長我們中華電信的簡董事長簡董事長我們高鐵的施董事長施董事長"},{"start":20.848,"end":35.674,"text":"委員好部長好部長我今天特別邀請兩位跟民眾生活關係最密切的兩位董事長中華電信還有我們台灣高鐵一起來探討幾個問題第一個問題"},{"start":39.178,"end":66.108,"text":"我想我先請教中華電信簡董事長你有沒有知不知道這個事情就是台南亞太棒球場正式啟用報告委員知道3月29開幕戰當天這個整個台南亞太棒球場的區域轉播都斷了訊號全部都沒有網路因為我們的總統是棒球迷那也是也是私迷總統賴清德他是全場"},{"start":67.267,"end":88.116,"text":"看到我們都陪他我們都在那邊看球但是整整差不多四個小時了三四個小時了現場完全沒有手機訊號連總統旁邊的隨行助理市政府很多要聯絡事項的全部都沒有手機訊號一直到總統看到球賽快結束"},{"start":95.291,"end":122.349,"text":"那總統要離開那我們也陪同總統到總統的車隊上車那已經在場外了當場還是完全沒有手機訊號那擅長的時候啦當天幾乎滿座啦兩萬三千多位民眾出來很多民眾看到我就抱怨啦就在那邊罵沒辦法聯絡啦沒辦法聯絡完全都沒有手機訊號聽說只有台哥大有啦"},{"start":123.709,"end":142.858,"text":"中華電信案遠傳都沒有訊號那台客大為什麼有訊號因為台客大他有超檢部署啦他知道那天人很多所以就開一台訊號出去啦所以這種事情現在職棒的球季已經開打經常性的會在台南的亞太棒球場來辦"},{"start":144.696,"end":160.048,"text":"比賽啊不可以再有這種狀況請立刻改善來 董事長委員 我跟你報告就是這個開賽我們知道大概容納兩萬五千人那天確實剛好都是差不多兩萬四、兩萬五事實上中華電力之前"},{"start":160.928,"end":171.033,"text":"我們在裡面就有20個細胞當時是有增加到32個細胞那確實因為人湧進來之後那個提供細胞的電力過熱所以細胞有時候飄來飄去所以那個訊號會斷斷續續確實當時有這個現象後來調適大概經歷了50幾分鐘好那這個現象已經發生後面我們要改善一步你內腔後面幫你報告"},{"start":187.842,"end":216.737,"text":"不是 他說好像細胞沒有電力不穩然後調整以後就恢復正常完全沒有訊號啦到碎掉 歸掉都沒有訊號啦所以很多網友在網路上罵翻了啦所以你要幫他去改善好嗎有啊 現在就是有採取三個動作啦一個就是細胞在增加第一個動作電力設備也在增加那另外就是行動車啦聚集的時候我們現在會加派行動車"},{"start":217.717,"end":246.436,"text":"那另外4月10號也約了這個業主 應該是台南市政府因為職幫已經開打了 台北大巨蛋四萬個 多多都有信號台南球場只有兩萬五 應該不會造成容量太大當機的問題市政府也約了4月10號在裡面再廠刊再增加我們中華電信立刻改善好不好 好 謝謝那接下來我會請教高鐵"},{"start":248.037,"end":269.594,"text":"這高鐵的營運啊 服務啊 其實口碑都非常好啦那我接到唯一民眾抱怨最多 最詬病的罵得最兇的 就是行李空間不足像我幾乎把 我沒辦法啦 我把高鐵當捷運在上下班那我每次在高鐵上看到喔"},{"start":271.401,"end":287.135,"text":"看到旅客推著搭行李撞來撞去看到很抱歉因為真的找不到行李的置放空間這個問題也反映很久了我們希望高鐵能夠盡快來改善"},{"start":289.056,"end":303.591,"text":"其中我們在每一個車廂都有一個行李自放區那最常發生的 我這都拿網友在網路上他們所投訴的問題啦基本上那個地方應該是要放大行李嘛"},{"start":304.448,"end":328.634,"text":"但是有的民眾因為方便嘛他到坐 要去他的坐位陣營喔經過那個行李區就把他的行李放了不管他的行李大或小所以有時候會看見幾個都是登機箱那個二十吋的小卡的就給他占滿了因為我們的行李區 置放區只有一層所以放的東西就沒有了那有的民眾喔"},{"start":329.554,"end":355.259,"text":"就招來招去啦 這個車廂 下個車廂這樣找看有空間沒有啦如果沒有 沒有的 就抱著行李坐在位置上這個也是民眾拍的照片啦你看喔 那是長途搭高鐵啦他的腳部空間啊 抱一個大行李廂啊坐到中間啦 坐到腳抽筋啦那我們來看一下啦 我舉一個例子 像日本喔"},{"start":357.699,"end":381.007,"text":"日本就宣傳得非常好 你看那個座位上面的那個架 那真的是放行李的你看它擺滿了都是小的行李箱 日本人已經習慣了他設下行李 讓我們登機箱 他不會放在車廂平面的那個行李四方去 他會放在他的位置上面"},{"start":382.403,"end":401.087,"text":"那我們的旅客基本上還很少有這樣的一個概念我認為這個要加強宣傳你看日本甚至於你大行李你要先預約空間還收錢你看大行李去給你放還要你收錢我們再看一下你看韓國韓國是在兩個車廂之間它都設為行李自放區"},{"start":408.383,"end":415.789,"text":"其實我們車廂跟車廂中間 廁所位置不算我們車廂跟車廂中間其實還有空間看能不能立刻改善再來 你看台鐵台鐵的行李區 它現在坐在地上台鐵這個做法其實非常有效你知道嗎"},{"start":433.257,"end":457.833,"text":"我們的行李區就是說 因為你現在放電影 你沒有第二層你沒有上面這個鐵架 沒有第二層你就沒有空間放了嘛一般人就不 也不會把我的行李放在你的行李箱裡所以罵就罵啦 但台鐵那做這個鐵架我們去看就很多小行李廂 登機廂20吋的那種 它就放在第二層把下面的空間讓給大行李區啦"},{"start":460.1,"end":470.198,"text":"我覺得這個行李問題現在迫切很多民怨要趕快解決 要馬上來解決那未來我們高鐵新訂製的車廂"},{"start":473.359,"end":496.799,"text":"更應該要把行李自放列為一個重要的設施好不好我們請教董事長好 謝謝你的關心我想行李自放它確實是這幾年應該是全世界這個大家人移動的習慣的改變因為台灣一年有超過一千萬人是出國是所以現在大型利害是"},{"start":497.079,"end":516.049,"text":"大家高鐵的旅客非常多事實上包括連國內的營地都攜帶大量的行李所以我想大概採訪兩個方面來解決第一個就是有關於既有行李架的雙層化在新車以及舊車我們都會同步的要求那也會在明年上路第二個就是我做個美女 拜託你"},{"start":518.03,"end":539.93,"text":"第二個就是說這個我們這個宣導大家民眾事實上是要把小型行李放在這個乘車架上這個部分我們也會來進行我想這整體是有賴的台灣人很有功德心有的人只是不注意沒想到或者說他的方便所以經過行李區他的小行李也放在那你如果加強宣導"},{"start":541.551,"end":567.541,"text":"是或者是我們的台鐵工作人員可不可以也幫民眾把小行李就放在行李車上面對 我們會來全面性的來進行這個宣導我想這個是乘車禮儀我們接下來的一個重點啦我想大家有賴於大家互相以及我們在設備上的改進一起來促成來達成 好謝謝不然你說要到明年我是覺得你也當逐步來改善立刻就可以做啦因為這個雙程車廂 逐步改善"},{"start":569.722,"end":580.367,"text":"這你要先做啦我們是逐步改善但是三十四組雙層的行李置放這可以先做啦有在做啦但是三十四組車要全部完成要到明年了好 了解謝謝謝謝兩位董事長謝謝部長"}]}},{"id":"168114","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168114","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106caea8866cd08e28688b964e64394a70074047e563c2ae16094e9b506dd3952c205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"10:06:24 - 10:12:24","影片長度":"00:06:00","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況（含上會期臨時提案辦理情形），並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:06:24+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:12:24+08:00","duration":360,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-5-15-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.83534375,"end":14.914718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.29846875,"end":16.500968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.45846875,"end":19.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.42034375,"end":19.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.94346875,"end":28.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.27534375,"end":37.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.290968750000005,"end":40.024718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.49721875,"end":45.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.59346875,"end":46.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.06159375,"end":54.064718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.486593750000004,"end":60.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.16909375,"end":74.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.05721875,"end":78.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.31409375,"end":81.75659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.92534375000001,"end":83.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.22034375000001,"end":86.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.83596875,"end":88.50659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.86096875000001,"end":92.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.62409375,"end":94.59846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.96971875000001,"end":97.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.37846875000001,"end":100.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.47096875000001,"end":102.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.61409375000001,"end":105.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.65159375,"end":106.63034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.96784375,"end":107.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.18284375,"end":116.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.37971875000001,"end":117.80159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.96596875,"end":121.75034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.59409375000001,"end":128.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.46659375000002,"end":130.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.04846875,"end":134.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.35596875000002,"end":142.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.31784375,"end":135.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.84096875,"end":136.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.61659375000002,"end":141.91596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.54034375,"end":150.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.69096875,"end":152.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.64846875,"end":160.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.88409375,"end":156.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.10346875000002,"end":157.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.64721875,"end":161.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.94221875000002,"end":170.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.46846875,"end":171.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.43034375000002,"end":173.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.07971875,"end":175.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.68284375000002,"end":178.58534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.95659375000002,"end":180.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.37409375000001,"end":181.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.96034375000002,"end":184.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.93034375000002,"end":185.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.97659375,"end":186.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.15784375,"end":190.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.33034375000003,"end":191.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.01784375000003,"end":193.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.75596875000002,"end":195.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.25346875000002,"end":200.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.23596875,"end":203.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.74596875,"end":204.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.46721875,"end":206.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.01971875,"end":207.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.36971875,"end":211.44096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.74471875,"end":212.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.19596875000002,"end":213.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.49534375000002,"end":217.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.90409375000002,"end":236.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.19659375,"end":237.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.68159375000002,"end":238.84596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.14971875,"end":241.83284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.30534375000002,"end":243.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.06034375000002,"end":245.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.10221875000002,"end":247.72221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.84034375000002,"end":249.78096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.00034375,"end":251.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.07596875000002,"end":253.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.16034375,"end":252.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.91534375,"end":299.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.71346875,"end":277.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.61284375,"end":324.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.79034375000003,"end":333.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.70034375,"end":349.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.66971875,"end":340.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.57221875000005,"end":344.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.30159375,"end":349.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.88346875,"end":353.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.88284375,"end":353.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.93346875000003,"end":355.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.08096875,"end":355.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.97534375000004,"end":356.48159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.859,"end":14.776,"text":"主席 每一位同仁請我們客委會我們的股主委"},{"start":22.003,"end":38.307,"text":"目前我們客委會尤其在過年的時候都會來舉辦收東西本席這邊看了這幾年我們所舉辦的這個成效倒是反應都還蠻熱烈"},{"start":40.56,"end":47.946,"text":"那尤其我們指年增加的我們的預算包括109年我們500多萬113年增加到一倍就1100多萬那114年是增加逐年增加將近1500萬"},{"start":61.218,"end":86.132,"text":"那可見說這個說東西代表說這是我們客家的文化那我們現在在客家要推動的就是我們的文化文化的傳承還有我們的客家的語言那我們可以借重這個戲劇來宣傳我們的語言讓我們年輕的一輩尤其小朋友他們能去接觸"},{"start":86.952,"end":107.628,"text":"那你要靠的我們的細劑這效果倒是都不錯那本席在這邊所講的因為在我的選區土層有24萬人口那我們客家族群有將近5萬多個那5萬多個他比例算是非常高那是不是 拜託主委"},{"start":108.428,"end":133.481,"text":"我講這應該你很清楚吧是不是有機會尤其在過年的時候大家都比較喜歡我們說東西就是標示過年的時候大家農作物都收成了嘛就是在那裡慶祝嘛是不是我們今年有機會邀請我們來土城演藝場"},{"start":134.417,"end":161.183,"text":"好,感謝吳議員,能夠列為優先的考慮地區啦沒問題啦,列為優先的考慮地區好,那在這邊我代表土城人也感謝你啦因為土城的客家,客家的租賃有五萬多人所以五萬多人,我們在宣傳上效果應該都是不錯啦在這邊我也特別感謝我們的主委那尤其"},{"start":164.516,"end":190.988,"text":"我們過去所演的一些歷史的電影雖然說我們投入了金額跟我們所收益的這個金額的差距但是我們這是一個歷史一個文化這是我們當然又不注重在賺錢的方面我們就是要讓我們的文化下一傳承那本席是非常認同"},{"start":192.088,"end":204.195,"text":"那未來我們要怎樣去推動我看啊在去年啊我看我們客委會所舉辦的演唱會演唱會"},{"start":205.512,"end":226.025,"text":"才能響應更多的我們不管是我們客家人也好啦民眾也好這個族群絕對會會比較大吧因為我們要演就是要人多嘛讓我們的歷史讓我們的文化都可以下去傳承嘛那我看喔像我們上一次喔"},{"start":226.625,"end":251.579,"text":"包括田馥甄、江美琪、林曉培這些歌手倒是滿受我們客家族群他們的歡迎度都非常高啊所以我看未來我們還是要除息的潮這個方面下一推動比電影成本然後我們這個歌手要參差一些歌手這樣應該效果會更好"},{"start":252.64,"end":255.482,"text":"這是本席的建議啦好,感謝美燕,希望課友會合併會針對多元形式的露出客家的議題和英國的不同的形式"},{"start":268.254,"end":270.255,"text":"我們也很不滿意這樣的票房以及內容沒有那麼直接的直指這個歷史的事件我們是相當的不滿意"},{"start":288.119,"end":295.463,"text":"但是我們不能因為這樣子而就不去探討客家的歷史、事件、議題、社會議題等等的這個卻是我們客委會的職責所在故事我們要嚴謹的回頭來嚴謹的檢討到底在這過程當中應該可以改進些什麼這是我們責無旁貸的責任"},{"start":313.873,"end":333.009,"text":"就如同委員說的影視或者是出版品或者是戲劇等等的各種表現的形式都是我們所能夠認同的以及推展的方式我們不會把一個單一的來投入而已"},{"start":333.889,"end":354.388,"text":"好 謝謝因為我看那個電影我們所投資的都五千多萬嘛那收益有九百多萬啦那嫌失也是有過大啦那為了不讓外面的疑慮是我們該檢討是我們該檢討是不滿意是因為這歷史文化我絕對都支持我們客委會啦是好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168086","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168086","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c57efe062cb0cfeacbad885c3c28ba2b24047e563c2ae1609f774445f8f1023ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃仁","委員發言時間":"10:06:16 - 10:18:08","影片長度":"00:11:52","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:06:16+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:18:08+08:00","duration":712,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.55409375,"end":1.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.7353437500000002,"end":3.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.199093749999999,"end":4.941593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.290343750000002,"end":23.554718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.72909375,"end":14.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.925968750000003,"end":24.297218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.242218750000003,"end":69.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.34909375000001,"end":76.05284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.66034375000001,"end":94.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.53096875,"end":99.82971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.03221875000001,"end":101.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.95596875000001,"end":104.95971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.22971875,"end":137.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.98409375,"end":163.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.47784375,"end":166.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.30034375000002,"end":169.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.04659375,"end":172.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.66221875000002,"end":186.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.61784375000002,"end":212.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.40284375000002,"end":214.79909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.83721875,"end":215.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.62596875000003,"end":234.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.85909375000003,"end":242.35596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.18284375000002,"end":244.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.73096875000002,"end":246.82784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.16534375,"end":249.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.23659375000003,"end":251.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.23221875000002,"end":278.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.46159375,"end":268.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.04221875,"end":279.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.88596875,"end":314.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.80034375,"end":349.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.73159375,"end":349.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.83284375,"end":358.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.21534375000005,"end":359.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.43034375,"end":362.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.84346875,"end":378.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.87471875,"end":409.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.65471875000003,"end":409.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.68846875,"end":410.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.89096875,"end":412.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.94534375,"end":449.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.14221875000004,"end":453.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.40721875,"end":500.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.24596875000003,"end":462.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.98221875,"end":511.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.2378437500001,"end":516.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.91221875,"end":542.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.7478437500001,"end":543.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.1147187500001,"end":550.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.69596875,"end":554.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.16784375,"end":558.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.3740937499999,"end":559.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.9097187500001,"end":565.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.59659375,"end":567.1828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.7734687500001,"end":568.6340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.98846875,"end":571.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.35096875,"end":572.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.90346875,"end":576.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.41346875,"end":579.0459687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.40034375,"end":584.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.30659375,"end":586.7240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.7578437500001,"end":613.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.53409375,"end":619.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.9172187500001,"end":648.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.99284375,"end":683.6709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.00971875,"end":652.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.9497187500001,"end":656.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.6203437500001,"end":710.9072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.0928437500002,"end":711.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.6328437500001,"end":712.39221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.843,"end":28.191,"text":"謝謝主席,有請我們林部長請林部長部長,針對這一次的WTO第十四屆的部長會議部長級的一個會議剛結束很遺憾我國被迫拒絕出席"},{"start":29.11,"end":58.402,"text":"那當然這是我們自從2001年加入WTO之後首次沒有出席WTO部長級會議原因是受中共的影響主辦國柯麥隆對我國極度的不尊重矮化我國的地位外交部為了維護國家的尊嚴主動記者出席會議本席認同外交部維護中華民國國家的尊嚴的決定"},{"start":59.122,"end":72.815,"text":"那但是再請問沒有出席WTO部長級的會議對我國有什麼樣的不利的影響或者損失你來說明一下好不好報告委員對這一次在柯耐農舉辦的部長級會議我們"},{"start":77.181,"end":93.931,"text":"這個交涉的結果啦雖然我們沒有參與但是我們也都積極掌握會議的進行那最主要是他矮化我們之外因為不能形成先例那我們交涉還有包括各國包括這個WTO的這個秘書處啊都覺得我們的主張是有道理所以最後"},{"start":95.031,"end":110.196,"text":"這個柯麥隆政府是有調整不過他在調整裡面又有一些錯誤那已經來不及再更正比如說他給我們要能夠免簽入境已經不是用原來的這個所謂的這個台灣然後 Province of China"},{"start":110.876,"end":137.241,"text":"可是名字也寫錯然後性別也錯那這個時候時間已經壓縮到很接近大會那我們是有做好各種應變的方案不過最後綜合考量並沒有就是來得及有辦法在他更改之後去出席這個也有新聞稿加以說明也就是說我們爭取所有參加的機會但是因為這些錯誤我們如果沒有再要求他更正"},{"start":138.041,"end":163.388,"text":"那就會變成慣例所以這個也是在外交上有時候某種形式跟實質關係的都是互相影響但是對我們這次權益就這次柯麥隆所主辦的會議我們並沒有因此受到直接的影響我們也因此開始交涉以後要主辦這種所謂的M部長級會議的國家在申辦的時候就必須對台灣承諾"},{"start":164.548,"end":190.065,"text":"不能有任何矮化對我們差別待遇我們就是在WTO裡面我們就是台澎金馬關稅領域那一般也用台灣這樣的方式在稱呼尤其是涉及入境他卻以為說因為涉及到這個入境是他單方的國家的主權那事實上這個大家當然要了解嘛因為這個是有政治力的介入所以我們從2001年加入WTO"},{"start":191.346,"end":216.551,"text":"這一次是首次拒絕出席但是我們要維護中華民國的尊嚴我們也要強勢的來表達對WTO的一個會議的出席的一個尊嚴所以部長你也特別要表明我們的一個強勢的立場而且非常要受到尊重他要遵守相關的規定所以從這一次的事件看來"},{"start":217.611,"end":244.821,"text":"本席也看到了我國外交工作的兩難實際上以中共的期望就是要減少我國的一個國際的參與如果從結論來看部長會不會覺得我國主動拒絕出席會議之後正符合了中共的一個心意是不是報告委員這當然是綜合評估如果是可以出席我們真的一切的辦法我們還是要出席"},{"start":245.799,"end":263.499,"text":"可是因為他有錯誤,這個錯誤他又來不及更正的時候我們必須在捍衛我們國家的地位的情形之下抗議,抗議完當然持續交涉,事實上他們也承認有一些失誤"},{"start":264.58,"end":278.519,"text":"所以這個就不太會成為以後的一個範例反而是未來要主辦的國家在申請的時候都必須跟我們或跟這個秘書處表示很清楚他必須平等對待台灣"},{"start":280.241,"end":295.827,"text":"至於在榮邦計畫即將要成立榮邦經貿辦事處並籌授榮邦經貿公司這是不是代表了我國將以投資外交期待於援外的外交看了這個報告,榮邦經貿辦事處是參考中美洲的經貿辦事處但是本席發現風險部分"},{"start":302.789,"end":328.084,"text":"榮邦經貿辦事處比中美洲經貿辦事處高出非常多那成立這個榮邦經貿辦事處的風險是什麼但是本席認為有絕對風險為什麼我們現在像是一個投資的平台是一個政府支持的投資網路如果透明度不夠"},{"start":328.764,"end":349.475,"text":"很容易被質疑是否特定企業因此得到政府的資源是否形成政府背書替特定企業開發海外的市場有將來以後可能會發生如何防治如何控管我想部長你來說明一下"},{"start":350.295,"end":377.533,"text":"報告委員 雖然是叫做農幫經貿辦事處他是參考中美洲經貿辦事處可是他並沒有這個一個基金我們現在就是行政上的協助那希望說透過我們政府鼓勵企業他們多去做跟我們友邦的經貿這個關係包括投資貿易那我們台灣有很多的這個這方面的know-how可是他們我們的邦交國台灣會覺得有點"},{"start":379.274,"end":393.278,"text":"為什麼我們都不去投資他呢或者是為什麼我們都不買他的東西呢啊雖然我們政府我們如果自己政府去做我們的很難去持續啦還是要企業有商業模式所以剛剛委員擔心的這個倒是不用擔心因為我們中美洲經貿辦事處很有經驗他也會來協助龍幫經貿辦事處雖然他是個任務編組"},{"start":398.759,"end":427.759,"text":"它並不是去成立新的一筆基金但是我們讓企業想要去幫忙我們榮邦的時候它有一個行政上的我舉例來講我們的邦交國我們都有大使館我們可以收集所有可以做貿易的項目然後它的產量它的季節它的品質等等我是認為提供這些資訊的服務然後讓我們的企業比較容易願意去那邊可能採購啦可能去加工啦可能去就是說做各種的投資"},{"start":428.579,"end":453.305,"text":"那這個是應該想說也是我們現在在做總和外交一個所謂公私協力公部門跟私部門合作的一個我覺得是應該是在全世界包括現在川普政府他也是在做所謂的commercial diplomacy那不要講說日本歐洲國家他們長期其實都透過投資在帶動貿易以及帶動整個雙邊或各方的外交關係"},{"start":454.508,"end":478.729,"text":"所以今天我們提到這個就是一個責任的歸屬一定要劃清清楚就行政服務啦 協助啦投資遭遇到項目的失敗邦交國這個邦交國政治異動甚至斷交之後投資歸屬及是否再繼續所以外交部對於這些問題的責任釐清是否明確那第三是榮邦計畫"},{"start":480.73,"end":497.679,"text":"辦事處設立的根本是我國近年來邦交國流失速度極快政府想用投資綁定邦交但是還是免不了外交競價的一個風險可能被迫提供邦交國不符合我國利益的一個產業投資會不會將來以後會發生這樣的事情"},{"start":501.021,"end":516.145,"text":"包括我也應該不會我舉例以前我們去我們在榮邦計畫不只是經貿啦又是投資那我們在開發過去的工業區其實就遇到開發完之後我們無法招商因為其實企業需要什麼我們需要為他們服務就像台灣的政府"},{"start":517.006,"end":541.824,"text":"我們的這個單一窗口啦 我們這個同步平行作業就像科學園區或各個產業園區就台灣的這個經驗 尤其是行政上面的這個我們的這些經驗是很寶貴 這是無價的那他們國家要發展 他們也期待台灣把我們台灣經驗能夠輸出給他所以我們其實除了在促進所謂雙方面的所謂的這個經貿的這個外交以外其實我們也在幫他做制度建構"},{"start":542.785,"end":566.981,"text":"跟能力建構其實這個就是在幫助他怎麼進入世界市場他們有很好的東西但是他們的附加價值不高那這時候我們透過台灣市場的需求來幫助他比如說他們生產的像在這個馬紹爾群島他有這個糯粒果他是一個很對這個提高免疫能力可是他們就不知道怎麼去加工那我們如果能夠跟他契作"},{"start":567.922,"end":584.33,"text":"還有氣收那我們又讓他這個加工之後可以價格可以提升然後他就建立品牌之後因為他跟美國又有特殊的COVA這種協約的關係就可能可以銷到美國他有很多好東西但他不知道怎麼去把它變成一個好的商品"},{"start":585.35,"end":613.149,"text":"好 最後 榮邦經貿辦事處形塑出的一個外交模式那也很符合部長的一個雙軌外交的理念那當政府外交透過榮邦經貿這個體系的結合企業聯盟外交本身很擔心政府的外交政策最後會被企業投資利益的會不會被利益綁架以上 那請說明"},{"start":614.602,"end":624.945,"text":"因為我們是請企業幫忙我們外交啦其實他們投資在其他的領域或做生意所以很多創業楷模都是經濟部認定的那些創業楷模都是中小企業為主"},{"start":631.307,"end":648.71,"text":"這些都是台灣打造經濟部落國非常好的這個可以說可以參加我們所謂的聯合艦隊啦所以我倒是說台灣的 我們政府的資源有限那怎麼去讓民間 尤其是企業能夠促進跟我們邦交國的各方面的交流合作"},{"start":649.831,"end":669.905,"text":"這個不會有什麼負面或是說太大的負擔注意上述的風險當然也要設置好一個防火牆以免會傷及到我們外交部的形象既然我們有心要做一個經貿的邦交來帶著企業過去引領、引導"},{"start":672.146,"end":691.772,"text":"引導他們這個所謂投資的一個環境當然是一個好事但是我們也不要被企業反過來綁架了我們外交的一些事務好不好好 我跟委員說明一下我舉例來講比如說像創凱總會啦還有這個工商協定會台北市進出口"},{"start":694.553,"end":710.644,"text":"這個工會他們就是在幫我們做榮邦經貿推動的最主要的參與者他們很多都是領導的企業他們平常的社會形象都非常的好我們會注意委員提到的在新藝的時候怎麼也做到防弊好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168106","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168106","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cb64bb53cb8ea36107570c8d4d2e9dc784047e563c2ae160926c4e24d5983e9f25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇清泉","委員發言時間":"10:28:28 - 10:40:06","影片長度":"00:11:38","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:28:28+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:40:06+08:00","duration":698,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2.2415937500000003,"end":5.920343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.164718750000002,"end":16.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.395343750000002,"end":19.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.36534375,"end":21.563468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.44096875,"end":22.980968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.12846875,"end":24.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.69346875,"end":29.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.16971875,"end":33.274718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.79784375,"end":36.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.52721875,"end":43.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.02846875,"end":45.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.25596875,"end":45.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.54284375,"end":52.680968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.27159375,"end":56.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.69284375,"end":65.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.55221875000001,"end":70.36596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.20534375,"end":75.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.47471875000001,"end":76.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.26784375000001,"end":78.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.43221875,"end":83.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.96721875,"end":84.23721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.13159375000001,"end":91.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.62409375,"end":108.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.94221875000001,"end":115.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.50659375000001,"end":118.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.54409375,"end":120.34971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.80534375,"end":123.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.65284375,"end":128.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.32284375,"end":137.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.78159375,"end":140.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.00471875,"end":149.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.66159375,"end":155.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.92221875,"end":157.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.43659375000001,"end":161.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.73971875,"end":178.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.27721875,"end":180.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.55971875,"end":182.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.61846875,"end":184.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.40284375000002,"end":186.11159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.38159375,"end":187.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.32659375,"end":189.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.16159375,"end":194.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.29159375,"end":199.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.53971875000002,"end":201.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.80534375000002,"end":203.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.37471875,"end":211.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.16659375,"end":215.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.77784375000002,"end":217.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.98846875,"end":220.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.00909375,"end":229.10909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.69971875000002,"end":232.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.05784375000002,"end":233.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.45846875,"end":234.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.63971875000001,"end":239.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.56721875000002,"end":241.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.65971875000002,"end":242.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.67659375000002,"end":257.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.61096875000004,"end":260.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.24346875000003,"end":261.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.54721875,"end":274.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.88659375000003,"end":280.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.26971875000004,"end":294.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.92159375,"end":301.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.59971875,"end":308.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.04596875000004,"end":309.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.88971875000004,"end":313.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.04096875000005,"end":324.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.84096875,"end":328.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.31721875,"end":331.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.70909375,"end":334.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.11784375,"end":339.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.21846875,"end":347.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.31409375000004,"end":351.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.07284375,"end":362.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.36659375000005,"end":367.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.90159375,"end":370.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.84221875000003,"end":370.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.50034375,"end":371.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.71096875,"end":409.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.21596875,"end":409.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.23284375000003,"end":410.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.25784375,"end":418.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.39596875,"end":418.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.64909375,"end":422.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.77971875000003,"end":419.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.57284375,"end":421.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.47971875,"end":424.50471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.92659375000005,"end":425.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.63034375,"end":432.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.08971875000003,"end":436.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.54909375000005,"end":439.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.47284375000004,"end":440.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.17721875,"end":445.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.39159375,"end":450.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.99846875000003,"end":453.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.00221875000005,"end":455.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.53784375000004,"end":462.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.47346875000005,"end":463.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.66721875,"end":470.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.19784375,"end":475.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.88909375000003,"end":476.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.50909375000003,"end":483.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":484.22534375000004,"end":492.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":493.42221875,"end":496.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":497.11784375,"end":502.02846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":502.11284375,"end":508.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.72784375000003,"end":516.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.37221875,"end":522.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.39221875,"end":523.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.80971875,"end":526.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.8347187500001,"end":527.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.45471875,"end":530.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.6440937500001,"end":555.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.72471875,"end":560.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.51721875,"end":562.0022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.08221875,"end":565.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":564.6515937500001,"end":565.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.86659375,"end":565.9678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":565.9678437499999,"end":566.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.03534375,"end":566.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.2547187499999,"end":566.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.27159375,"end":570.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.28846875,"end":568.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.9965937500001,"end":573.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":572.07659375,"end":575.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.86534375,"end":577.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.93221875,"end":578.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.95721875,"end":584.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.2222187500001,"end":589.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.06534375,"end":592.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.7947187500001,"end":599.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.78096875,"end":601.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.2153437500001,"end":605.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.9109687499999,"end":606.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":607.93596875,"end":612.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":613.0490937500001,"end":627.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.32971875,"end":630.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":630.14346875,"end":635.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":635.37471875,"end":642.1415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.06971875,"end":649.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.66784375,"end":654.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.6753437500001,"end":657.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":657.66659375,"end":662.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.21034375,"end":661.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":662.8134687500001,"end":662.8303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.8303437500001,"end":679.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.62096875,"end":686.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.4553437500001,"end":688.5647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.1215937500001,"end":689.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.4040937500001,"end":693.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.6609687499999,"end":695.0109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.83784375,"end":697.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":697.62659375,"end":698.48721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.267,"end":24.21,"text":"重新宣告待會兒劉建國委員諮詢完畢後休息10分鐘好謝謝主席我請行政院副秘書長好請副秘書長好還有李建德次長李建德次長還有人事處的陳崑源好人事處我也好好"},{"start":26.864,"end":53.936,"text":"副局長你是事務官事務官所以你是公務體系幾乎最高的嘛是那你對公務人員有沒有疼惜的心我們自己是公務體系的人員我們對公務人員當然會有疼惜的心你不要像政務官拍拍屁股就走人啦所以沒在插插你會怎麼樣來我今天要問的是我們公務人員的體檢一般有3500跟4500對不對"},{"start":57.965,"end":83.62,"text":"那如果高強度的,譬如說錦霄、海巡、空巡、台鐵司機,這裡就不要講台鐵司機那這個就是一年一次,其他兩年一次嘛三千五到四千五啦,副院長你知不知道?知知,三千五要做什麼檢查?是要去量身高體重、抽抽血?"},{"start":85.588,"end":107.601,"text":"我的印象裡面這幾年我們已經人事總署這部分已經逐年逐年在調整我參考日本的公務體系他們是非常的嚴謹金額也很高體檢完之後如果有紅字有不正常的他們就會再追蹤"},{"start":109.002,"end":136.102,"text":"那我們這邊是三千五、四千五,你自己找便宜,放股吃草然後人家Data出來,怎樣也不能追蹤我覺得這一塊比不上勞保我們勞動部在我們洪部長的這個柔韌之下我們就是事業單位大家都很怕病還有什麼職安護理師、職安什麼師什麼師"},{"start":138.23,"end":160.958,"text":"貼圖出來又有問題 追耶 一直追所以我在想 我們這個國務卿館 每次都要死 哭要哭情緒吃雞 常常要用早餐 身體這樣 常常出事我覺得這個你們要好好的思考 至少參考日本一下嘛如果沒有就叫勞動部來幫我們支援嘛"},{"start":162.818,"end":170,"text":"我覺得公務人員我沒有預測將來考公務人員高考的人會越來越少"},{"start":179.495,"end":200.846,"text":"會越來越少你看看今年的大學那個第一階段現在已經可以收到84%今年要收的大學的入企新生他占了84%然後各位看到那些AI的電子的全部都在前面很高"},{"start":201.983,"end":214.048,"text":"你做公務人員,有什麼將來想,我看這間公務人員,他們站到了,就要自己提撥,我看那個條件越來越差,那你自己當副秘書長,你就要想一下,"},{"start":215.954,"end":230.846,"text":"我們衛生部的理事長,你站在醫療界的角度,這樣一宗體檢,只做一個Low dose的CT就要4000塊,你用3000塊,你真的是要叫他去喝咖啡,增高體重量一量,抽抽血,敢要這樣而已,一些Straight check,一些心血管的check,你看我怎麼樣?"},{"start":242.971,"end":266.606,"text":"國務委員我其實我是來衛福部學習啦 也來委員學習嘛我是覺得 委員你所關心這個 我覺得是真的 我們公務人員真的這麼辛苦 我想這個都可以來研究啦 謝謝所有公務人員都是國家 國家是雇主是 沒錯那你用這種心態 應付應付的 然後一天到晚再出事"},{"start":268.067,"end":274.576,"text":"尤其是精神上的壓力的好像今天太多人在講這個霸凌的事情一件接一件"},{"start":275.936,"end":301.706,"text":"那都是精神壓力,那個比獅子的壓力還大所以我覺得我們行政單位還有我們行政院一定要做分別考量你最高的文官你可以,一年是一萬六嘛跟比照立委嘛,可以保留一年兩年一起做所以要做高檢要很實際的,很實際的真的是抓到重點不然的話對這些公務人員是不公平"},{"start":302.646,"end":323.403,"text":"真的不公平,那我今天不講那個霸凌,霸凌講太多了,沒有意思啦,健康好不好,我看到太多的警察,心機更塞,我在屏東就看到好幾個,連屏東選舉委員會的主秘也是暴斃,猝死,怕死人"},{"start":324.924,"end":350.131,"text":"所以我都說他們那是無形的壓力所以那如果又加上人委去跟他那個,那更不得了所以怎麼衛部跟人事總署這邊看看有沒有一個formula你要做基本的檢測做心血管的,做癌症指數的種種做金額要大幅提高我為了三千四、四千五,要找新人"},{"start":353.103,"end":370.72,"text":"我們勞保的公司好像有的都加得很高,自己加嘛,這個是員工最大的資產嘛你們沒有把你們的員工當作資產,我覺得我一點都沒有感受到福民省,你不說兩句啊"},{"start":373.755,"end":388.315,"text":"我們謝謝委員提醒了我們公務員健康檢查這個機制的相關問題這個議題對我們所有的公務員其實是非常重要的那我們原先的時候也是從零開始然後慢慢逐步逐步的建立"},{"start":388.976,"end":408.246,"text":"那目前委員對於這個金額部分呢就是一般年齡還沒到了同仁的時候三千五、四千五這個金額的部分的時候那有所關心嘛那會後的話我們會把這個議題帶回去我們會請人事總署的時候跟有關機關一起來研議一下"},{"start":409.386,"end":421.996,"text":"好,就是壓力檢查,stress check,再來就是吸血管,再來就是精神過勞,好不好研究一下,我會給各位來對,好謝謝,請回請回第二個提問我請部長,洪部長我前15分鐘,等一下啦,你去選館長"},{"start":438.389,"end":450.01,"text":"來你現在這個12歲以下你跟美賴總統跟你的最原始的想法我想是不是因為我們台灣的女性的"},{"start":451.087,"end":458.128,"text":"像我們醫院的夫妻都是臨床醫師啦像我辦公室的助理也是這樣啊他們都是雙薪所以我說你用這個12歲以下我覺得非常好啊非常好"},{"start":477.569,"end":482.604,"text":"非常好 講三次你們的起心是怎麼樣 起心動念是怎麼樣"},{"start":484.721,"end":508.287,"text":"其實這個政策當然它是我們也在面對現在的家庭結構跟過去其實不同所以過去的家庭的型態會有比較多長輩的後援那現在比較少那現在雙薪家庭也是主流所以我們最大的政策的目的就是希望能夠讓很多的雙薪家庭勞工朋友其實可以安心的工作然後家庭可以減壓這是最重要的"},{"start":508.787,"end":529.986,"text":"像我們醫院有 我講一個例子 夫妻都是臨床醫師然後一個小孩是七歲 一個是三歲那早上就會送到學校 國小一個 國小一個在小班下午下課 完蛋了 幾位狗跳 沒有人去接孩子"},{"start":531.73,"end":554.87,"text":"所以就請家庭的幫傭,就是下午來上班接小孩然後給他準備晚餐,然後家裡的一些幫傭的事情事實上他們沒有在照顧小孩,他們是把他接回來,先去洗洗,看一會兒回家然後爸爸媽媽有可能七點八點,有可能九點才回來"},{"start":555.771,"end":584.202,"text":"因為有時候要開刀啊什麼的所以這個他找台灣的這個幫傭不好找耶在高雄要很貴耶夜間比較尤其是晚上特別困難到爸爸媽媽回來之後他就下班了對 晚上的部分特別難找什麼四點到八點多九點那所以這個幫傭外籍幫傭進來我覺得是非常非常有需要"},{"start":585.27,"end":606.21,"text":"那你以前是六歲以下三個,那不可能的事啦太不可能六歲以下生三個,那不少的太不可能,所以你現在這個,那是很好而且現在外籍的移工,大家都在搶人條件要過好唯一的就是一個要繳五千塊的救安基金,先過啦"},{"start":609.268,"end":627.638,"text":"這個救安費當然原本就是五千塊啦但是我們有針對如果特殊家庭或者是家長有身障那或者是家裡的照顧需求特別高的比方說小孩如果有兩個小孩其中一個是六歲以下的話都可以把五千塊降到兩千塊那不是有殘障的有什麼有問題的啦"},{"start":630.879,"end":653.605,"text":"對,就是說家長單親或者是生長,假設有生長的話那他可能特別辛苦,我們也希望降低他的負擔,把他的救援費減下來我覺得如果家庭很辛苦的,或者是有真的殘障的,是不是不收也可以啦兩千塊,你是要兩千塊,老人家不聽好話,家大業大"},{"start":655.731,"end":661.503,"text":"我報告也是一書一書啊我們大概都會有一個這個分層次的市長你聽到沒有"},{"start":662.987,"end":688.321,"text":"對啊,殘障還要再加一些,不要讓人太大壓力了這個大家都在為主席,大家都在打拚尤其我們女性的勞動力,我再講一次素質都很高、學歷都很高、能力都很強這些人就綁在家裡,我是覺得可惜啦所以這個來補充,而且是真的有需要所以你這個政策我給你肯定"},{"start":690.663,"end":694.569,"text":"在野黨肯定你 你要拍手加油 謝謝好 謝謝蘇清泉委員"}]}},{"id":"168105","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168105","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c12b854cc950b542d811c6ac3ddeb80e04047e563c2ae160903c53ec228b776055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"10:36:38 - 10:46:13","影片長度":"00:09:35","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林沛祥等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林德福等31人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員涂權吉等23人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員許宇甄等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員黃健豪等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員羅智強等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員游顥等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員賴士葆等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員羅明才等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法繼承編施行法增訂第十二條條文草案」案。\n【4月1日及2日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:36:38+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:46:13+08:00","duration":575,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-5-36-5"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.06409375,"end":5.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.494093750000001,"end":7.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.632843750000003,"end":10.476593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.476593750000003,"end":84.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.92909375,"end":131.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.07784375,"end":147.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.58596875,"end":153.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.93096875,"end":208.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.09534375,"end":219.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.97971875000002,"end":231.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.67409375000003,"end":245.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.27096875,"end":265.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.82909375,"end":281.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.70409375,"end":309.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.53534375000004,"end":313.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.58096875,"end":335.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.79284375000003,"end":337.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.56034375,"end":413.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.55284375,"end":417.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.05846875000003,"end":490.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.38471875000005,"end":507.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.81909375000004,"end":492.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.94096875,"end":495.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.50034375,"end":510.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.67721875,"end":512.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.2378437500001,"end":516.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.3347187500001,"end":513.7903437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.97159375,"end":517.5872187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.5534687500001,"end":522.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.49846875,"end":518.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.7978437500001,"end":528.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.45471875,"end":548.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.5178437500001,"end":529.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.66034375,"end":535.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.8234687500001,"end":553.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.97471875,"end":549.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.78846875,"end":556.3659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.3659687500001,"end":556.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.6528437500001,"end":565.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.30534375,"end":566.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.74409375,"end":567.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.95909375,"end":568.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.71846875,"end":574.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.7353437500001,"end":568.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.3715937500001,"end":574.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.00846875,"end":576.6497187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.169,"text":"有請黃次長"},{"start":11.191,"end":36.01,"text":"市長您好主要今天也想跟您討論一個跟民法的修法相關的議題就是離婚的相關法規特別是贍養費的部分我想你們在去年2月行政院就有通過法務部的版本2005年9月行政院司法院經會嫌送立法院代審議"},{"start":37.391,"end":56.25,"text":"那我想這個修法的重點那我也要肯定你們就是提出你們的版本那你也可以看到我從上一屆當立委就開始推動要完善離婚後的經濟保障制度那不只是來我們司法法制會質詢過那當時希望你們能夠往"},{"start":59.233,"end":83.643,"text":"善養費不只是撫養費的方向修那我也跟婦女團體一起開記者會希望能夠修法支持經濟的弱勢女性在離婚後的處境那這邊你可以看到我去年六月就提出我的版本裡面大概有兩個重點第一個是要把善養費的意義轉化為婚姻生活的補償金"},{"start":85.003,"end":104.709,"text":"那第二個是職業年金也應該納入離婚的分配請求權的範圍那從我的角度來看你們的願板事實上是有三個突破那你看右邊的線型條文如果要領到贍養費真的非常非常的困難主要是因為1057條"},{"start":106.87,"end":131.339,"text":"寫的無過失之一方應判決離婚而限於生活困難者他方重無過失應給贍養費這跟全世界很多國家比基本上台灣是請不到的因為法官對於什麼叫做限於生活困難者是給一個非常嚴格的定義至少這個你們突破了你看左邊是你們的版本"},{"start":132.139,"end":145.652,"text":"已經改成因離婚而生活陷於困難或有一個或於離婚時就業能力已減損或就業機會減少者所以我覺得這意義有三個第一個不只是無過失能請領贍養費"},{"start":147.654,"end":167.387,"text":"也不只是判決離婚能請領贍養費那他也包含因為婚姻、生育、家庭減少就業機會、職壓、發展、經濟能力的弱勢配偶他有機會請領贍養費這是我肯定的部分但是我覺得你們有未盡之處"},{"start":169.008,"end":182.616,"text":"就是如果你不移除生活限於困難這個要件可能會有一些問題以下不是我說的婦女薪資基金會有蒐集近百個相關的例子還做訪談他發現大概85%的律師不會建議當事人請求贍養費"},{"start":188.88,"end":208.116,"text":"主要的原因就是當事人不會符合生活限於困難那請求失敗的案例中有請求的大部分律師都不會希望就是他的當事人請求在請求的例子中就是主要都是因為法官認為請求人沒有限於生活之困難"},{"start":209.127,"end":227.664,"text":"也就是說你留著這個生活陷於困難也幾乎根本不會符合然後去請求了也不會成功十年間次長你看一下十年間中華民國去請求的我們都不要算沒有請求的"},{"start":228.224,"end":244.753,"text":"只有21件21個人領到所以那個次長為了21個可以領到的你留這個文字在這裡可能會產生很大的問題這個不是婦女心之題的是2020年就是其他的人所做的研究"},{"start":246.391,"end":264.927,"text":"所以我今天就是也再告訴你一個具體的例子譬如說這個原告主張年事已高患有慢性病女兒自顧不暇而且訴訟費用龐大生活已陷於困難他請求的贍養費多少不是幾百萬幾千萬其實是八十萬"},{"start":266.148,"end":281.805,"text":"結果法院認為他雖然慢性病沒有減損工作的能力每個月子女還奉養他兩萬多元就沒有幫他請求就是因為子女有養他兩萬多這是一個實質上在研究裡面的"},{"start":282.782,"end":308.491,"text":"所以到底要不要把陷於生活困難 刪除我認為就實證上十年來至少只有21個人法院判可以 你乾脆把他刪除以免律師們的經驗你留在那裡基本上就會讓法官認為很有這個機會那其實更不利於法官往另外一邊判"},{"start":309.651,"end":333.761,"text":"那這是第一個我要講的是你們的版本的未竟之功那第二個未竟之功是什麼善養費如果是對於婚姻的補償不是限於困難為什麼就是一個離婚的人如果我們假設他多數的時候比較是女性為多實證上他後來遇到好的對象他要再婚就會失去善養費的這個權利"},{"start":338.598,"end":367.774,"text":"那不知道就是說他再婚也可能遇到一個很貧窮的人啊不是說再婚就能夠遇到一個經濟能力相當的所以再婚為什麼就會使得一個曾經對婚姻有貢獻的人他之後本來有判得贍養費之後就沒有了那這個基本上不是限就是離婚的女性或者他也可能會是男性就是限制他有"},{"start":368.254,"end":385.82,"text":"新的幸福跟選擇的可能嗎那我覺得這是一個非常不合理的那我也沒有辦法看到有其他的國家有這樣的規定那最後一個就是軍公教那我知道從2017年起軍人公務人員公立學校教職員政務人員退休金"},{"start":386.44,"end":412.79,"text":"都已經陸續納入離婚分配請求範圍而且事實上我國的職業年金高度反映勞動市場的成就所以應該要把職業年金納入離婚分配的範圍那這是我覺得應該要做的那再來就是也給您看一下現判字第四號就是說修法明文規定合理提高他方配偶請求夫妻善於財產分配之比例"},{"start":413.771,"end":416.562,"text":"這是112年的憲判字第四號明文這麼寫"},{"start":418.123,"end":442.924,"text":"那我們台灣簽署的CDO也很清楚的講第44段45段47段都告訴大家要肯定配偶就是他因為照顧家庭家務所失去的經濟機會還有他的無形對家庭的非經濟的貢獻這個部分都應該要放入所以國家報告還很明確說你們這個民法"},{"start":444.665,"end":470.104,"text":"就是要使所有職業中都有配偶年金分配權然後國際審查來台灣的時候建議我們政府考慮取消生活陷入困難作為善養費的條件所以他直接就叫你們把這個刪掉了這是CEDAW的國際專家的意見那部長我現在的要求很簡單啦你不用現在答應我你是不是可以去研議"},{"start":471.205,"end":489.68,"text":"因為我知道你們已經準備好了我剛剛有肯定過基本上有些部分做到了可不可以再考慮移除生活限於困難再婚不能領膳養肺還有職業年金納入離婚財產分配這三點以盡全功好嗎我們司法法是還沒審查希望那你這多久可以給我報告"},{"start":490.661,"end":517.273,"text":"更有可能說明一下啦因為這個法案司法委員未來會審查嘛最後委員剛剛提幾個問題我先簡單的回應關於第一項移除現有困難的部分我們又是知道這個問題所以我們構成要件裡面增加了選項這邊剛剛委員剛剛提到的選項不限於這個選項10年內只有12個我知道那不排除BC選項啊沒有 律師說你留在那裡法官就會往他倒非常的不利他的構成要件是或"},{"start":517.893,"end":532.949,"text":"如果它這麼容易的話你可不可以告訴我10年內為什麼只有這麼少的之賴以前沒有這個要件以前只有限於這個生活困難這個要件所以它能成立的機率少沒有我現在講的是另外一邊當然有開放了嘛可是你擺在那邊10年間也只有21件"},{"start":535.211,"end":549.679,"text":"那為什麼不乾脆就把它刪掉呢那個CITO的專家他們對這方面是性別平等跟離婚是專家他們都建議我們直接刪除欸那您現在不用回答我可不可以再去研議啊當然我們會來討論啦我們委員會的時候可以來討論可不可以先研議再告訴我你們的專業看法好嗎好我現在請你研議這三點因為今天時間不夠了我沒有辦法在這邊就是跟您進行答辯好不好"},{"start":563.706,"end":572.096,"text":"那多久可以給我這個報告一個月 好 一個月好不好一個月 好 要盡快喔因為我們知道司法法制會不會隨時突襲拍攝好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168104","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168104","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c7ceb5d5ca4c34a49331a35e1dda586ae4047e563c2ae1609dd317367dc2c47e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"10:36:06 - 10:44:18","影片長度":"00:08:12","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「能源轉型政策下我國產業發展布局，及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就「AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及扶助政策規劃與執行情形」進行報告，並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:36:06+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:44:18+08:00","duration":492,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.6340937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.56221875,"end":4.705343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.19471875,"end":5.2115937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.312843750000001,"end":5.970968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.94409375,"end":19.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.52159375,"end":20.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.75784375,"end":20.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.22596875,"end":23.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.930343750000002,"end":23.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.86221875,"end":27.419093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.60471875,"end":30.456593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.43534375,"end":37.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.337218750000005,"end":39.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.21034375,"end":41.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.21846875,"end":43.939718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.564093750000005,"end":45.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.42034375,"end":47.297843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.10784375,"end":51.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.10721875,"end":53.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.48221875,"end":56.157218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.93346875,"end":57.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.85721875,"end":59.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.03846875000001,"end":60.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.88221875000001,"end":61.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.844093750000006,"end":62.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.27846875,"end":64.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.03346875,"end":66.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.48471875,"end":69.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.88909375,"end":72.45846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.67346875,"end":74.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.34846875000001,"end":74.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.76596875,"end":77.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.48721875000001,"end":78.14534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.00596875000001,"end":80.67659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.69346875000001,"end":82.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.97159375000001,"end":83.22471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.86596875000001,"end":84.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.57034375,"end":88.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.72596875,"end":89.72159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.31221875,"end":92.28659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.80971875,"end":93.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.07534375,"end":95.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.64471875000001,"end":96.03284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.60659375,"end":96.91034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.51784375000001,"end":99.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.66096875000001,"end":100.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.84221875,"end":101.16284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.43284375,"end":102.20909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.60971875000001,"end":107.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.35159375,"end":109.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.83659375,"end":111.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.91221875000001,"end":113.38034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.86534375000001,"end":115.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.48534375000001,"end":118.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.67471875000001,"end":120.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.36221875000001,"end":122.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.42096875000001,"end":124.53471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.93971875000001,"end":127.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.89284375000001,"end":130.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.11596875,"end":133.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.32221875000002,"end":136.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.87034375000002,"end":140.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.81909375,"end":145.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.76346875000002,"end":147.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.51846875,"end":148.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.35784375,"end":151.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.51784375,"end":153.34034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.93096875,"end":157.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.79534375,"end":158.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.48284375,"end":160.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.40659375,"end":162.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.81971875000002,"end":164.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.24159375000002,"end":165.05159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.82784375,"end":166.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.90784375,"end":167.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.00471875000002,"end":169.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.97909375,"end":174.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.63659375,"end":174.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.83471875,"end":176.42534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.91471875000002,"end":178.66971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.27721875,"end":181.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.82534375,"end":184.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.59284375000001,"end":185.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.63471875000002,"end":186.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.46159375000002,"end":188.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.18284375000002,"end":191.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.40596875,"end":194.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.86971875,"end":195.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.94971875000002,"end":196.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.19846875000002,"end":197.63721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.31221875,"end":199.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.88159375,"end":201.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.07534375,"end":203.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.30284375000002,"end":205.07909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.24784375000002,"end":207.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.52596875,"end":209.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.87159375000002,"end":211.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.45784375000002,"end":214.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.05221875,"end":215.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.68909375,"end":217.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.56221875000003,"end":220.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.93721875000003,"end":225.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.45971875,"end":227.43846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.01221875000002,"end":228.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.64909375000002,"end":231.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.33659375000002,"end":232.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.20971875,"end":235.15034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.85909375000003,"end":239.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.94284375,"end":242.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.14909375000002,"end":245.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.25846875000002,"end":246.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.92909375000002,"end":248.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.95409375000003,"end":251.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.02534375000002,"end":255.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.43409375000002,"end":257.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.23534375,"end":260.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.47534375000004,"end":262.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.11221875,"end":265.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.62659375000004,"end":265.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.19159375000004,"end":269.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.57096875,"end":270.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.04346875000005,"end":272.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.29221875,"end":274.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.67159375,"end":276.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.29159375,"end":280.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.40909375,"end":281.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.89409375,"end":282.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.61534375,"end":284.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.56034375,"end":288.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.79596875000004,"end":290.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.65221875000003,"end":291.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.69409375000004,"end":293.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.67221875,"end":298.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.70159375000003,"end":299.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.70971875000004,"end":301.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.46471875000003,"end":303.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.18596875000003,"end":305.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.83534375,"end":307.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.56096875000003,"end":310.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.03721875,"end":312.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.48846875000004,"end":313.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.00721875,"end":318.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.47909375,"end":322.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.93409375000005,"end":324.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.21221875000003,"end":327.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.55784375,"end":331.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.69221875,"end":334.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.62846875,"end":340.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.82159375000003,"end":343.99409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.19659375000003,"end":351.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.52034375,"end":356.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.53721875,"end":352.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.56596875,"end":367.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.20971875000004,"end":369.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.13784375,"end":370.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.46659375,"end":372.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.98534375,"end":374.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.74034375,"end":375.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.83721875000003,"end":378.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.16596875000005,"end":378.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.68909375000004,"end":378.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.72284375000004,"end":379.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.44846875,"end":443.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.48221875,"end":380.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.23159375,"end":446.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.16784375000003,"end":451.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.36159375000005,"end":453.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.93471875,"end":455.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.82471875000005,"end":456.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.00159375000004,"end":467.53596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.96284375000005,"end":463.28346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.75534375,"end":468.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.93659375000004,"end":470.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.13034375,"end":472.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":472.71659375,"end":473.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.52659375,"end":477.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.62721875000005,"end":479.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.10784375000003,"end":481.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.20909375,"end":480.22596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.22596875000005,"end":480.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.49159375000005,"end":483.88784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.48721875,"end":483.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.90034375000005,"end":487.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":487.80284375,"end":489.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.70534375000005,"end":492.67971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.87,"text":"主席有請經濟部副市長還有我們國發會主委"},{"start":28.913,"end":55.821,"text":"兩位大家辛苦了今天的議題都非常非常的重要我們召委安排的我們的經濟發展就是長期以來就是要由這個國發會的前身經建會早期然後就是我們經濟部一直以來"},{"start":57.297,"end":83.852,"text":"來去這個促請這個行政院院長甚至總統來去推動來去這個能夠去讓你們去執行我們看今天的這個我們經濟部的報告裡面第一句話能源供應穩定光復國家安全確實是這樣"},{"start":85.952,"end":113.115,"text":"不只是經濟發展還涉及到國家的安全從這段時間的美、以、伊朗這樣的一個中東的戰爭更能夠體會到我們看這個特別剛提到早期的經濟部長早期的經建會早期的政務委員"},{"start":114.892,"end":121.662,"text":"怎麼樣去說服當時的行政院院長甚至總統你看我們合一從1971年開始興建到1978年"},{"start":128.511,"end":141.902,"text":"當時很快啊1978年現在很慢啊現在很多問題啊現在現在還有很多的程序啊以前的程序不會那麼冗長啊1971年開始興建1978年就開始啟用了我們合二1974年"},{"start":149.937,"end":162.102,"text":"都很早,這邊很多年輕的公務員都還沒出生了1974年開始興建河,1981年就開始啟用河山1981年開始興建,1984年就開始啟用所以這樣的,然後這段時間大家一直爭執爭議"},{"start":177.423,"end":200.38,"text":"這個賴總統也感謝立法院修正了這個核管法所以要啟動核二核三所以這個都是一個這個國發會跟經濟部共同的要去協調相關的部會協調各個政黨不同的意見然後往這個經濟發展"},{"start":202.53,"end":224.626,"text":"往國家的安全來去推動這個是我們共同去回憶過去然後再看看現在然後我們共同的去促成所以這個2月28號中東情勢持續升級就是美以一的戰爭"},{"start":226.699,"end":246.146,"text":"現在已經是四月了又一個月了現在四月一號了所以這個什麼時候會停不知道所以這樣的一個我們有更長遠的一個規劃當然你們這段時間也有好的規劃了也有做調整"},{"start":247.477,"end":268.836,"text":"我們的油價這些我們的油的來源各方面的來源也做了這一些調整所以這樣一情形之下這個我們看這個汽油柴油我們看這個計算的"},{"start":271.412,"end":277.974,"text":"公式指標油價日期70%是杜拜30%是布蘭特這樣的一個計算之後有調降為什麼有降低那為什麼我們的禮拜一還漲價"},{"start":301.546,"end":311.724,"text":"這個禮拜一啊還漲價禮拜天還去加油啊所以這個部分到底是什麼原因什麼因素那個經濟部的說明嗎"},{"start":314.399,"end":330.764,"text":"根文報告這個油價的漲幅他是會根據這個當週的這個國際油價就是剛剛講的布蘭特也有跟那個杜拜也有的這個油價的一個均值來做調整然後加上匯率"},{"start":331.784,"end":349.801,"text":"那當然就是我們一直在強調就是說現在市場上調貨的一些成本我們並沒有把它加入到這樣的一個價格的一個計算裡面來那至於說油價的公式是不是合理這個部分我想我們這個中油這個部分會再來做檢討"},{"start":351.782,"end":370.676,"text":"那當然現在整個油價的這個公司 如同剛剛委員提到的我們油大部分來自於美國啦所以這個部分的一個公司的換算的部分是不是我們再來做一些研議 做一些調整中油要不要來說明一下"},{"start":371.937,"end":395.964,"text":"這個為什麼按照這個公司啊這個公司是有調價啊那這個我們國內油品價格的調整是按照國際價格的漲幅啊幅度啦那目前以布朗特來講的話已經漲70%那大家可以看到我們國內的零售的價格漲幅是遠低於它的"},{"start":396.704,"end":420.958,"text":"所以呢 油品的這個組合的比例事實上是政府跟中油這邊在談吸收部分的多寡啦所以社會大眾認為說好像我們沒有吸收這麼多其實重點在這裡但是重要的是說我們要讓國內的油品供應無虞這個量要充分供應所以價格方面呢我們來讓民眾感覺到波動比較少"},{"start":423.459,"end":450.012,"text":"那至於說剛剛那個比例我們在過去這20年來那個油價公司也經過了9次的調整就是隨著時事的改變那目前呢我們也在找那個各個研究機構來協助開始要找他們來檢討把過去段時間譬如說運費漲了這麼多但是原來的浮動壓機子沒有考慮運費啊你現在這種情況下荷姆茲不能動了荷牌危險一併納入 謝謝"},{"start":452.553,"end":469.987,"text":"謝謝你的說明不管怎麼樣這個應該要檢討油價的計算公式這個部分也請你剛也說了所以經濟部跟中油共同的來去讓我們的當然很重要的"},{"start":471.155,"end":492.287,"text":"不漲價當然是最好的就想辦法就是世界要和平不要有戰爭這是最重要的謝謝政見台委員請關羽先回座現在休息五分鐘"}]}},{"id":"168103","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168103","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c7b8285a2841b0bd5bd67b93b5004dc024047e563c2ae1609486914daaa45fd855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡春綢","委員發言時間":"10:31:47 - 10:43:13","影片長度":"00:11:26","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:31:47+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:43:13+08:00","duration":686,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.4990937500000001,"end":3.8109687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.965343750000002,"end":15.589718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.960968750000003,"end":16.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.82159375,"end":18.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.59346875,"end":19.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.70721875,"end":20.550968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.934093750000002,"end":26.457218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.507843750000003,"end":49.609718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.18346875,"end":51.111593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.68534375,"end":70.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.31096875,"end":72.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.11659375,"end":93.11346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.68721875,"end":96.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.45034375,"end":104.90909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.59221875,"end":118.20659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.57784375000001,"end":127.69034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.21346875,"end":134.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.98534375,"end":132.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.28846875000002,"end":135.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.48221875000002,"end":138.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.51596875,"end":143.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.34596875,"end":175.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.77159375000002,"end":148.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.90659375,"end":183.58034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.13721875000002,"end":184.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.16659375,"end":218.14034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.62971875000002,"end":226.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.46346875,"end":247.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.56659375,"end":252.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.29534375000003,"end":255.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.21034375,"end":275.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.46471875000003,"end":283.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.76721875000004,"end":300.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.96284375000005,"end":303.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.98346875000004,"end":311.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.96534375000005,"end":312.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.21409375,"end":317.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.59284375000004,"end":335.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.94909375000003,"end":335.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.32034375,"end":335.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.48909375,"end":335.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.62409375000004,"end":353.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.03909375,"end":361.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.45971875000004,"end":368.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.59346875,"end":371.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.07409375000003,"end":386.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.28284375000004,"end":387.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.83534375000005,"end":387.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.88596875,"end":467.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.20284375000006,"end":474.67409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.47159375,"end":477.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.03659375,"end":487.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.67659375000005,"end":490.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.60034375000004,"end":500.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.67846875000004,"end":507.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.61409375000005,"end":517.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.49471875,"end":530.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.4209687499999,"end":553.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.01721875,"end":548.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.55659375,"end":559.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.23034375,"end":563.4365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.92596875,"end":576.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.20284375,"end":602.6709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.02159375,"end":600.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.15221875,"end":613.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.72159375,"end":603.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.3953437499999,"end":611.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.0322187500001,"end":619.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.60909375,"end":621.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.6047187500001,"end":627.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.2578437500001,"end":663.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.48846875,"end":671.1328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.21721875,"end":683.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.81096875,"end":680.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.74284375,"end":687.9740937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.53,"end":3.212,"text":"主席我們請教育部的鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":25.976,"end":49.329,"text":"委員好部長好剛剛有很多委員都有提到都非常關心目前校園就是有一些問題譬如說教師房還有我們的校園的一個氛圍已經非常的不友善包括我們的孩子在協同有五個就有一個很想"},{"start":51.75,"end":68.397,"text":"不想上學 然後有年紀關係的一個焦慮那在一一三年的教育部的一個校安通報那個學生的一個自殺率將近兩萬人那如果從一百零六年到現在將近"},{"start":71.397,"end":91.378,"text":"成長了12倍這個數字是非常非常的驚人那今天呢我就要替這些焦慮的學生想自殺的學生還有剩下幸福感50分的老師來對我們教育部提出最沉重的一個呼籲"},{"start":94.541,"end":104.156,"text":"請問部長在這樣的一個狀況裡面部長你有沒有決心就是明年就能夠把教師的幸福感提升到60%"},{"start":107.722,"end":135.359,"text":"我想老師的幸福感當然有主客觀的一些感受但是怎麼樣提供老師讓他能夠更願意留在校園裡邊讓他有覺得培養一起來大家一起來努力培養我們新世代的年輕小孩讓他們有一個更美好的未來的發展所以校園的負面不好是我們一直在努力的要怎麼樣努力"},{"start":136.573,"end":157.466,"text":"就像剛才委員所關心的我們把校士會議裡面造成老師無謂的壓力這些匿名的投訴我們把它拿掉了我們來調整老師的終點會老師的一些也許大家覺得好像力有未盡但是至少我們看到了一些我們從"},{"start":158.487,"end":183,"text":"他的薪資報酬的一些工作上的一些相對的一些帶也做了一些調整那我們也開始對偏鄉離島的老師我們開始這一個支持宿舍的整建或者蓋宿舍讓老師能夠有一個那個部長我了解好那希望這個決心能夠落實那就是在那個"},{"start":185.302,"end":187.604,"text":"申察院也有調查出我們的一個輔導的機制輔導人力的不足輔導老師的一個行政負擔過重然後我們的輔導的一個銜接的機制也不流暢所以才會造成這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":202.855,"end":225.257,"text":"這個就是我們目前為什麼我們會有這麼多的學生不想上學然後壓力很大所以然後我們現在也有一個所謂的身心調試架這個身心調試架目前利用的沒有很多那請問各縣市有沒有掌握到這個城鄉的一個使用的統計差異"},{"start":229.52,"end":250.351,"text":"就是我想身心調適下確實是最近我們去年開始實施嘛高中生裡面已經有兩萬三千多的一個學生全國大概佔了將近5%將近5%的學生有用到這個身心調適下那後續呢如果這些學生這些學生有這樣的一個狀況學校有沒有做後續的一個輔導這是詳細我是請我們署長來補充說明"},{"start":256.557,"end":281.151,"text":"謝謝委員 跟委員補充兩點第一點 剛剛來部長所提的這個數據那是經過我們一學年的運作那第二點是這個有沒有要結合輔導機制當時的討論是如果太緊密結合學生會覺得他不過只是想要調適一下卻被拿來增加很多輔導機制他們會有顧慮而不敢申請所以這一點我們會用我們比較專業的輔導方式來協助謝謝"},{"start":284.152,"end":306.241,"text":"比較柔性的那最後我們現在明顯的就是說我們也可以講說我們的學校的氣候已經變天了這個是一個危機我們當然當然也是要非常的關心那我們這樣的一個情形壓力學生的壓力老師的壓力那這個危機會影響到我們未來的一個國家的競爭力那"},{"start":312.323,"end":335.243,"text":"請問部長 那我們又要如何來提升這樣的一個國家競爭力我想當然最基本的 因為台灣沒有天然資源 我們靠的就是人才所以每一個教育階段 把每一個小孩子 每一位學生 把他教好我想這是最直接的一個提升國家競爭力最直接的一個方式"},{"start":335.703,"end":360.415,"text":"那剛剛部長還要講要調薪然後有種種的一些措施但是我要告訴部長不是你調了一千兩千那個植物價值調了一千兩千就能夠改變現在這個氣那個效能氣候不佳的一個狀況我想影響教師的一個工作滿意度影響的因素當然很多有時候他並不是不喜歡"},{"start":361.556,"end":386.092,"text":"但是他因為產業有更大的吸引力量包含我們師師的培育機制也改變過去我跟委員的年代是師大張師大高師大他們需要多少老師培養多少老師是公會的但是呢現在是儲備制所以變成有許多年間的生涯他當然原來他想要當老師生涯有可能改變對這個狀況"},{"start":388.773,"end":416.264,"text":"我了解 但是現在問題就是老師呢 在學校為什麼不快樂 就是因為教師的一個尊嚴很低嘛然後呢 教育政策呢常常改來改去啊還有就是最嚴重的就是我們學生的素質不好嘛這些都是對老師都是一個壓力然後呢 我還要再跟部長 就是請教就是有學校校長有跟我"},{"start":417.885,"end":436.048,"text":"提過在高中的時候早期就是有教官那現在教官已經退出校園了所以在管理學生的這個部分對給學校老師產生行政的一個壓力那當初這些教官要退出校園的時候有沒有做配套"},{"start":436.448,"end":460.504,"text":"沒有啊 現在的所有的工作都留到給現任的那個老師增加這個壓力 增加行政工作那我請教一下 現在的那個校長每一次到下學期的時候要請行政人員來擔任行政工作的時候都找不到那這就是一個問題嘛 就是給老師很大的一個壓力嘛那我們要如何的來"},{"start":461.986,"end":475.44,"text":"退出校園了那如何讓這個老師跟行政人員能夠分開來分治校園裡面有教官過世於世來自因為金正時期當然台灣隨著民主化的一個過程裡面對對對那現在我要問的那個部長是"},{"start":478.263,"end":506.777,"text":"你的配套配套配套的有校安人員的一個補助那另外國中原來沒有教官他是管理組長嘛在那個學務處的管理組長嘛當然每一個家每一個小孩都是家庭的寶也是台灣未來的希望對所以我們在給小孩子有一個更好的一個發展的一個成長環境我們在國中也去年也補了600多位的這個校安人力去協助這一個"},{"start":508.017,"end":528.715,"text":"國中在許多的一些校園的一些這個更安全更友善的一個環境上的一個營造很好很好那我們也希望不要讓那個老師呢兼太多的行政工作讓老師回歸在教學的部分讓他們能夠提升到教學品質然後給學生的一個"},{"start":531.037,"end":558.485,"text":"老師回到教學的本業這是對的但是因為我們國民教育法裡邊開宗明義國民教育就是培養德智體群每五億金融發展所以老師不是只有特別在小學生這一個他不是只有學科的教學沒有錯沒有錯情緒人格態度生活習慣的養成這個不可否認的當然是要前面的一個教育這個沒有錯但是呢我們就是說"},{"start":560.307,"end":576.018,"text":"最後能夠行政能夠專業化老師當然這個剛剛講的武藝是老師要教學的一個內容沒有錯行政工作能夠分治我希望我們能夠朝這樣的一個方向來走"},{"start":576.698,"end":593.913,"text":"也聽到第一層的這些老師的一些聲音所以我們在去年就把全面的檢討了我們這個目前對中小學老師地方到底要求什麼樣的許多的一些表格什麼樣的資料的申請我們大概150向里兵我們減少了將近70%就行政的減量我想"},{"start":600.318,"end":603.381,"text":"因為教育部開始在行政減量地方縣市教育局處"},{"start":620.683,"end":645.958,"text":"有時候增加的時候他都算教育部的說教育部要求我想這也跟委員做這樣一個補充說好那最後呢我要跟部長分享的是說我們要有幸福的老師才能教出幸福的孩子那當學校的心理健康還有就是心理健康要落實那對學生的學習的一個成效呢才能夠有加成的一個效應"},{"start":647.539,"end":668.372,"text":"因此我們希望能夠將教師的幸福感還有心理健康教育能夠納入國家的一個品質關鍵的指標希望我們一起來努力今天我們有一些請教教育部的有順便一個計畫或報告也能夠送到本辦來"},{"start":671.694,"end":687.385,"text":"谢谢我们关心也指正我想对老师怎么创造老师的幸福感我们一起努力这也是我们重要的我同意它是一个很重要的教育品质是好然后我们一起努力好谢谢好谢谢蔡君君"}]}},{"id":"168107","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168107","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c9d1cb33711a26a62bd67b93b5004dc024047e563c2ae160910ab85f957d34f9a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"10:43:18 - 10:53:31","影片長度":"00:10:13","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:43:18+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:53:31+08:00","duration":613,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.38096875,"end":5.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.970968750000001,"end":6.915968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.294718750000001,"end":13.328468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.328468750000003,"end":14.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.77971875,"end":15.775343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.230968750000002,"end":19.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.04846875,"end":23.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.58846875,"end":23.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.60534375,"end":24.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.97221875,"end":25.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.32221875,"end":34.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.59096875,"end":57.321593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.50721875,"end":70.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.99034375000001,"end":71.37846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.68221875,"end":72.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.06596875000001,"end":73.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.38659375,"end":73.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.38221875,"end":101.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.51721875,"end":74.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":101.60159375,"end":114.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.52346875,"end":116.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.05909375,"end":132.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.33096875,"end":137.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.44409375,"end":152.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.88471875000002,"end":172.66221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.35721875000002,"end":154.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.08284375000002,"end":154.13346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.50971875000002,"end":177.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.31096875,"end":181.89284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.07846875,"end":182.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.95596875,"end":189.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.89159375,"end":196.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.43909375,"end":211.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.12971875000002,"end":207.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.69409375,"end":222.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.03846875000002,"end":222.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.94971875000002,"end":223.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.33784375000002,"end":262.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.79159375,"end":290.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.20096875,"end":297.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.48659375,"end":306.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":297.94221875,"end":298.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":304.37159375000005,"end":304.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":305.48534375,"end":308.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.15596875,"end":320.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":319.47471875,"end":410.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.21284375000005,"end":324.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.89159375,"end":324.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.95909375,"end":325.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.47721875,"end":450.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.73471875,"end":438.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.35284375000003,"end":456.98909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":455.38596875,"end":474.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.00159375000004,"end":458.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.67409375000005,"end":486.94221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":479.34846875000005,"end":481.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":482.04846875000004,"end":483.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":485.62596875,"end":486.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":486.94221875000005,"end":495.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.69221875000005,"end":499.07534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":496.69596875,"end":497.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":498.29909375000005,"end":501.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":502.28159375,"end":516.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":516.82784375,"end":518.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.90346875,"end":537.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":535.8797187499999,"end":536.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":537.44909375,"end":563.8584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.5759687500001,"end":566.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":564.90471875,"end":566.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.3515937500001,"end":573.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":573.32534375,"end":589.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.9328437500001,"end":573.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.00034375,"end":574.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.14346875,"end":576.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":589.4578437499999,"end":602.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.05096875,"end":607.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":607.4297187500001,"end":611.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.96909375,"end":613.43721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.43,"end":18.917,"text":"那等一下吴思瑶委员寻报完毕之后我们休息五分钟休保委员请谢谢主席请郑部长好请郑部长上备训台谢谢"},{"start":23.826,"end":31.531,"text":"韓議部長好 請教部長日前教育部有透露將研議修改規定將毒品唾液篩檢"},{"start":34.816,"end":55.422,"text":"來引入校園希望可以改善傳統的尿檢法對於新興藥物像伊托米酯這樣子代謝比較快的毒品比較難用尿檢法檢出來這個問題我想請教部長目前有規劃具體的時程嗎後續這個毒品的唾液快篩要如何分配到學校我們如何執行是不是已經有開始討論了請部長說明一下"},{"start":57.903,"end":72.158,"text":"這次的公文報告我想這個引入快篩它確實是有助於讓我們及早發現學生的許多的一些不當的一些毒品的一些接觸那詳細的是不是我請我們學特斯"},{"start":74.48,"end":101.173,"text":"市政委員報告那因為那個毒品快篩的這個部分其實我們已經有在委託師大家來幫我們修正相關的要點還有一些相關的一些補充的一些措施那這個部分我們也在跟內政部警政署有研議那有加入內政部警政署他的一些毒品快篩的共同採購契約那這部分我們是希望在今年的9月能夠上路那這個部分如果採購順利的話是希望9月可以上路這樣子"},{"start":101.733,"end":114.653,"text":"現在在九月 剩下半年的時間了所以你要如何執行 學校要如何配合包括相關的人力 包括對象 包括怎麼執行其實必須要有一個很具體的時程安排你們已經有這樣子具體的討論出來嗎"},{"start":117.918,"end":135.588,"text":"對這部分呢我們那個施大的研究案出來之後我們會就找各縣市然後會辦理相關的一些研析那第一線的一些教官還有校安人力可以知道說可以讓怎麼樣的運用這個毒品快篩的這個試劑那是不是說你們整個的研究的這個"},{"start":137.789,"end":152.303,"text":"過程了解之後呢你們開始做討論跟縣市不管是教育局處或者是相關能力做這些相關的執行的討論的時候有進展請把你們的這個報告可以給我辦公室讓我了解說你們再來是怎麼做安排好嗎"},{"start":153.585,"end":170.579,"text":"好 謝謝委員好 那部長 以後公民團體建業除了這個拓業的快篩之外呢也可以考慮配合第二層的檢測就是所謂的夜巷晨曦的串聯質譜讓這個快篩呢如果有偉陽性或是有爭議的時候呢可以做一些相關的這個依據部長您認為呢確實是"},{"start":179.569,"end":195.814,"text":"這超乎我的專業的想像但是就快篩 拖曳的一個快篩對學校來講事實上是最方便但如果有一個更能夠更精 更好的一個方式我想這一個部分我們來看 學徒師有沒有"},{"start":196.622,"end":210.967,"text":"跟委員報告,因為我們想要用那個快篩的步驟,推一快篩主要是因為因應那個像一坨米子這樣的一個新型肚皮,它在泄很快,所以我們才用推一快篩,但是推一快篩它只是快篩,所以"},{"start":211.747,"end":215.351,"text":"不管有沒有實施快篩最後我們都還是要送尿檢那尿檢這個尿液篩檢這個才是最正確的部分所以快篩只是我們初步的一個快篩而已所以後面我們都還是會送尿檢其實除了這個毒品的檢驗之外我們只是說對學生比較一個這樣子的檢測之外呢"},{"start":230.447,"end":255.831,"text":"本席也認為說像圖片中這樣子的一些毒品實物展示向學生來宣導毒品的多變性也真的確實讓學生可以對類似的物品有警惕比較容易去辨識所以我希望教育部這邊可以多辦理類似這樣的毒品宣導讓學生有警覺心那提高他們辨識就是毒品就是類似毒品的話我們就趕快去避免"},{"start":256.351,"end":261.783,"text":"才能夠真正防止毒品進入校園那我想請問教育部你們可以安排這樣子類似的毒品宣導的課程"},{"start":264.307,"end":288.573,"text":"根文報告我們確實在宣導裡面事實上已經做到入班以目前來講114年我們總共有5702班直接到班上去做宣導那另外我們還有透過一些一笑一樂的用戲劇的一些團體藝術團體到學校裡面去做反讀的一些宣導就是說我們事實上是多面向的"},{"start":289.133,"end":303.189,"text":"所以已經有在做其實本席也是支持也是肯定說這是有效果的也希望說這樣子的班次是不是才可以開更多我們除了有一些大規模的場合就是說已經做到入班然後還有音樂團體這個藝術團體"},{"start":305.913,"end":313.181,"text":"這是對於校園的安全學生的安全還有來自影子我們企業界也關心這一個他們也在許多許多的這一些民間的企業團體他們也幫忙在做這樣的一個宣導也有這一些我希望說在這個部分類似研遊會這個大的一些活動"},{"start":324.915,"end":329.197,"text":"謝謝部長接下來我們也是要關心學生權益的部分接下來是考試的部分我們108課綱為了要是信仰才在學測階段就將數學分流成數A跟數B一般就是我們區分成自然組跟社會組的學生來報考"},{"start":341.144,"end":346.487,"text":"但是我们根据这个统计资料显示呢这112的学测及113的学测分别有高达61.22%以及60.6%就超过六成的学生是数A数B都报考"},{"start":357.654,"end":374.654,"text":"那所以這也導致說社會主的學生可能會受到比較大的影響因為數A數B雖然說他命題及考試內容針對的部分是不太一樣但是其實數B大部分的考題是可以用數A的這個邏輯觀念來解題的那自然主的學生呢他可以相對來講是覺得是比較簡單的來跨考"},{"start":377.918,"end":400.592,"text":"那造成說社會主的學生恐怕會面臨更大的競爭跟壓力而且很多學生他是要考量說未來在大學校系可能希望可以有更多的選擇所以呢他們都會數A數B全包所以導致說學生他要花更多的時間來學兩套考試的內容更多時間來準備甚至需要另外去補習我想請教部長"},{"start":402.813,"end":410.694,"text":"您觉得说数A数B的分流上我们是不是可以有更妥善的做法来降低社会主学生所受到的影响"},{"start":411.953,"end":437.069,"text":"謝謝委員這個議題其實本來就是我們當初的一個設計的利益就是能夠視性選才每一個學生高中生也開始去思考他的生涯的一個發展走向早期是只有一個數學不管你要選人文社會或者理工全部都是一個數學現在把它分流就是希望說學生能夠本以他的一個興趣來發展"},{"start":437.91,"end":441.951,"text":"但是有超過六成對 但是現在這個變成有六成這個部分我想我們會我們再來看怎麼樣去兼顧學生的生涯發展又能夠讓這個這個秩序上的資料的選擇裡面因為其實108課剛多元學型適性發展本身也是認同的"},{"start":460.435,"end":473.561,"text":"但是我們要重視到不同類組學生的權益這麼高比例的跨考其實跟我們108課剛這個事情發展我們要做數學分流這樣的初中本意是背道而馳的"},{"start":474.707,"end":501.298,"text":"本來婚牛還有一個包含他學習過程裡面他能夠因為婚牛當他要學習他兩組都要準備啊超過六成欸部長超過六成欸所以這個跟我們本來的本意我覺得是沒有做到位而且反而增加學生的壓力我們來跟等於說一線上的部長其實很多學生家長有希望說"},{"start":502.398,"end":517.921,"text":"那你既然分數A跟數B你就同堂考試你不要分堂嘛那讓你要選擇的學生你就很確認很正確的去選擇你要數A或數B然後擇一應考這樣的方式可以嗎"},{"start":519.556,"end":534.846,"text":"這個我想我們還是來研究因為確實在民主的一個寶貴的精神就是多元那我們學生他事實上是有多項的一個興趣如果你一定要用一刀兩切的一個方式我想這個我們會後我們來研議"},{"start":537.568,"end":565.273,"text":"你剛才本席所說的其實你這麼高比例的跨考跟你本來要做分流的這個初中就本來一看就知道說跟你本來這個好意學生在他選擇上來講並沒有照著你們所想的這樣去做他兩組都要考兩套教材他們都要準備那當然對理科的學生來講他的理解力這樣子來考兩組的考試他可能就覺得沒有任何負擔但是在社會主義學生"},{"start":568.434,"end":588.487,"text":"這個學習比較好的他確實在考數B的時候是比較駕輕就熟的那對只選擇數B的學生他也不得不去選擇數A但是他沒有這個優勢啊因為其實一般念文組的學生他本來在這個理科的這個理解力或是是他在這個數學的運算能力可能就沒有數理科的這麼強"},{"start":589.528,"end":613.23,"text":"那这样相对下来会造成他们的压力跟他们的负担所以这个部分我希望教育部你们这边也可以演绎相关的配套而且两个月之内你把你们的书面报告我们来看怎么考招的制度能够更精进我们会后再跟委员做报告好就麻烦部长了谢谢好谢谢陈秀宝委员的咨询请部长回座"}]}},{"id":"168097","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168097","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c76fd0cb30c823a6fe62ad2ff7c6948154047e563c2ae1609f2f941b50267ca495ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳清龍","委員發言時間":"09:57:45 - 10:08:38","影片長度":"00:10:53","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T09:57:45+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:08:38+08:00","duration":653,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.2115937500000005,"end":6.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.7134687500000005,"end":8.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.059093750000002,"end":9.075968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.075968750000001,"end":9.970343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.970343750000001,"end":10.122218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.032843750000001,"end":15.640343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.640343750000003,"end":15.657218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.809093750000002,"end":16.652843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.09596875,"end":16.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.61471875,"end":18.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.59346875,"end":19.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.38221875,"end":24.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.73596875,"end":26.153468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.44034375,"end":27.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.144718750000003,"end":30.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.456593750000003,"end":30.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.827843750000003,"end":32.329718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.54471875,"end":36.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.649718750000005,"end":38.016593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.877218750000004,"end":39.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.29471875,"end":41.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.72471875,"end":44.884718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.711593750000006,"end":46.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.977218750000006,"end":48.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.17096875,"end":49.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.588468750000004,"end":53.423468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.87909375,"end":55.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.49909375,"end":56.376593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.899718750000005,"end":58.789718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.61659375000001,"end":60.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.915968750000005,"end":62.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.55284375,"end":65.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.04596875,"end":67.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.56471875,"end":69.52221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.89346875000001,"end":71.80034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.72846875,"end":73.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.16284375000001,"end":75.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.71534375,"end":77.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.48284375,"end":79.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.27159375000001,"end":81.70596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.48221875,"end":84.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.57471875,"end":85.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.00909375,"end":87.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.44346875000001,"end":88.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.08034375000001,"end":91.45971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.93221875,"end":92.86034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.48471875,"end":95.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.98221875,"end":96.87659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.56846875000001,"end":98.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.62721875000001,"end":101.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.58471875000001,"end":103.87971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.62221875,"end":106.37721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.83284375000001,"end":108.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.62159375,"end":109.80284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.27534375,"end":110.78159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.72659375,"end":114.15659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.78096875000001,"end":116.33346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.80596875,"end":122.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.25221875000001,"end":125.80034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.57659375000001,"end":127.70721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.48346875000001,"end":131.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.29721875,"end":132.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.07346875000002,"end":136.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.60034375,"end":138.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.06409375,"end":142.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.94534375,"end":143.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.41346875000002,"end":145.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.45534375,"end":147.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.24409375000002,"end":149.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.69534375,"end":152.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.30659375000002,"end":154.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.24721875,"end":156.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.86284375,"end":159.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.82034375,"end":160.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.01846875,"end":162.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.27971875,"end":164.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.39346875,"end":166.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.41846875000002,"end":167.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.73471875,"end":170.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.49784375000002,"end":173.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.59034375000002,"end":175.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.35784375,"end":177.74159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.84284375000001,"end":179.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.42909375000002,"end":181.90971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.29784375,"end":184.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.20471875,"end":185.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.99346875,"end":186.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.51659375,"end":213.93846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.85409375,"end":187.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.63846875000002,"end":190.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.67471875,"end":204.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.74471875,"end":213.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.12846875000002,"end":224.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.64721875,"end":217.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.21096875,"end":227.47221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.80971875,"end":228.36659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.55221875,"end":234.20534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.81284375,"end":243.57096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.12784375,"end":251.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.29534375000003,"end":256.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.88534375,"end":258.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.84284375000004,"end":259.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.56409375000004,"end":262.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.82534375,"end":270.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.18284375,"end":270.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.62159375000005,"end":277.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.24096875000004,"end":283.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.27846875,"end":280.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.63659375000003,"end":303.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.98659375,"end":284.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.31034375,"end":291.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.42846875000004,"end":291.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.44534375,"end":291.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.00596875,"end":295.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.05659375000005,"end":295.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.22534375000004,"end":295.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.73471875,"end":305.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.25346875,"end":305.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.09721875,"end":305.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.18159375000005,"end":305.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.28284375000004,"end":326.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.91471875,"end":311.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.26909375,"end":312.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.87096875000003,"end":322.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.19096875,"end":327.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.54534375000003,"end":326.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.74346875000003,"end":328.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.58721875000003,"end":338.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.61096875000004,"end":342.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.17159375,"end":349.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.98159375,"end":345.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.41096875,"end":358.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.20284375,"end":361.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.29971875,"end":392.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.53659375,"end":382.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.08909375,"end":384.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.81034375,"end":386.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.18909375000004,"end":393.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.99471875,"end":394.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.12534375,"end":396.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.64409375,"end":397.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.05721875,"end":399.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.00221875000005,"end":401.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.06096875000003,"end":402.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.22534375000004,"end":404.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.64284375000005,"end":410.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.81909375000004,"end":412.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.35471875,"end":419.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.96534375000005,"end":422.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.47971875,"end":424.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.45409375,"end":429.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.97221875,"end":436.06409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.57034375,"end":437.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.54909375000005,"end":438.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.71346875,"end":440.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.46409375,"end":443.45534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.11346875000004,"end":447.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.60659375,"end":448.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.02409375,"end":455.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.95971875000004,"end":459.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.14471875000004,"end":469.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.91534375000003,"end":474.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.33221875000004,"end":477.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.35284375000003,"end":480.09096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.63096875,"end":487.26284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.65096875,"end":489.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.69284375,"end":491.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.68409375000005,"end":492.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.76409375000003,"end":494.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.87346875000003,"end":495.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.85221875,"end":497.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.30346875000004,"end":497.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.94471875000005,"end":507.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.25534375,"end":511.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.03971875,"end":514.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.7690937500001,"end":522.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.0715937500001,"end":538.1240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.79971875,"end":536.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.1240937499999,"end":538.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.5122187500001,"end":538.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.86659375,"end":538.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.9172187500001,"end":539.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.3178437500001,"end":540.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.95909375,"end":541.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.7859687499999,"end":543.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.1653437500001,"end":545.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.7178437499999,"end":546.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.5615937499999,"end":548.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.60346875,"end":549.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.31221875,"end":550.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.54409375,"end":551.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.19784375,"end":552.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.7547187499999,"end":553.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.35784375,"end":555.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.77534375,"end":558.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.96471875,"end":566.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.86221875,"end":568.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.27971875,"end":579.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.78846875,"end":584.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.3615937500001,"end":585.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.67784375,"end":593.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.6765937499999,"end":594.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.8915937500001,"end":595.4990937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.7353437500001,"end":599.3972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.3972187500001,"end":632.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.4978437500001,"end":632.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.64096875,"end":632.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.97846875,"end":648.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.82971875,"end":640.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.7734687500001,"end":648.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.9084687500001,"end":648.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.9253437500001,"end":652.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.9422187499999,"end":649.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.0009687500001,"end":652.4015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.5365937500001,"end":653.6840937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.259,"end":10.061,"text":"謝謝主席那請我們那個部長陳部長好請陳部長部長好部長好我想部長跟我一樣來自台中來自地方那地方民眾的心聲我們應該有共同的感受那我跟部長提到"},{"start":33.618,"end":37.306,"text":"我的感受 民眾的感受就是我們的罰單啊"},{"start":39.462,"end":58.206,"text":"這個開例這個越開越多那事故的死傷這個案件並沒有明顯的下降人行地利的這樣的一個惡名還是無法抹除我這邊簡單的一個統計資料保證你看一下那我們在民國111年的時候"},{"start":66.087,"end":68.428,"text":"我們的交通發展開了1385萬件我們的事故也達到47萬件"},{"start":78.55,"end":86.536,"text":"整個罰單的開立是整個往上升到我們去年罰單開到1631萬件死傷事故的案件來到了53.6萬件整個統計"},{"start":98.024,"end":121.666,"text":"事實就告訴我們你罰單開得越多你的交通事故並沒有減少那這樣的一個過程我們就發覺到其中的一個狀況我們的整個罰單的罰款收入依照我們目前這個高度級交通違規罰款收入分配及運用辦法"},{"start":123.291,"end":134.698,"text":"那麼多的一個交通罰款收入75%是來分配到我們各地方政府那24%分配給我們的處罰機關1%結繳國庫那我們在這樣的一個罰站分配給地方75%的一個部分我們只有"},{"start":149.781,"end":156.736,"text":"12%要求他分配給地方政府的正義派要來強制助於交通安全的改善"},{"start":157.915,"end":186.011,"text":"在這樣的一個現象我相信部長來自地方也了解你認為這樣的分配合理嗎取之於我們全民的發展收入那麼多的罰款收入你其中分配給地方75%之後你只強制12%要來助於交通安全的改善這樣的分配合理嗎 部長"},{"start":186.811,"end":213.528,"text":"請問一下我認為相當不合理我認為相當不合理所以這個部分其實我們有提要修法因為說實在話交通的罰單的目標跟目的是希望交通能夠更安全更安全啊不是為了罰款 要罰款啊應該要放在交通安全相關的這個部門看要怎麼樣去改善交通這個部分我們已經有提出修法我們希望提高到百分之三十"},{"start":214.308,"end":233.726,"text":"我也提出修法我在這個會期一擔任一就任我就提出修法為什麼要提出修法我們來看我們現在我以六都直轄市為例子你看從台北、新北、桃園、台中、台南、高雄我們分配給地方的金額"},{"start":234.887,"end":249.805,"text":"台北24億多 新北24億 桃園17億 台中20億 台南11億 高雄16億多我們目前啊 以目前分配辦法 強制用在交通安全改善 12%"},{"start":252.352,"end":269.788,"text":"分別只有差不多兩億元左右的這樣的經費我提出的修法我認為75%給地方地方的75%應該就要來做交通安全的改善你認為合理嗎"},{"start":270.809,"end":281.597,"text":"報告委員我認為應該要全部放在這個交通安全的改善我認為很合理那你認為是百分之百還是百分之七十我們目前還是剛剛你所說你要修法的幾趴三十趴對兩個數據跟委員報告"},{"start":286.06,"end":303.214,"text":"實際上地方所得到的不是只有75%以直轄市來說他們得到99%所有的罰款他得到99%那我們目前提啦因為根據是12我們希望至少要提到30不過我們也很歡迎也很感謝委員在提出能夠更高的版本人權經濟交通安全"},{"start":305.356,"end":326.262,"text":"既然這些罰單都是我們人民他辛苦的血汗錢不得不來繳罰款那他因為違反交通安全而被罰款這些款項拿來做交通安全的改善是理所當然而且也是一定必然的嘛對不對"},{"start":327.742,"end":348.814,"text":"好 那我們從這個比例來看如果今天各地方政府有這樣的一個專款這樣的一個費用所以交通的一個改善我相信人民的感受也會比較好是 沒錯那整個交通安全提升在硬體工程方面的改善速度就可以加快很多"},{"start":349.634,"end":377.091,"text":"對啊 我相信你來自地方現在各地方政府常常就把這個罰款的收入納入他財政缺口變成小金庫對 變成那個小金庫你各地方政府的財政缺口用人民罰款的費用作為他的財政缺口的挹注變成小金庫而不用再交通安全的改善所以我才會就任之後就提出修法"},{"start":377.631,"end":397.045,"text":"希望這樣的款項直接用於交通安全 道路安全的改善好不好 我們一起來努力讓這個修法能夠通過好 謝謝部長接下來我來請我們這個開設公司我們曾董事長我想這兩天 應該這個禮拜"},{"start":402.088,"end":408.594,"text":"我們真的還蠻辛苦的啦連續的開會剛剛我們有委員也提到光這個禮拜從327、328、330包括昨天連我們在新烏日站那個旁邊還有"},{"start":422.726,"end":435.054,"text":"還會有這個火災的發生而且是我們台鐵的協力廠商的一個戰車廠的一個問題產生火災造成列車的延誤汙點跟安全變成我們台鐵的指標那我請問曾董事長"},{"start":444.359,"end":459.199,"text":"當初過去我們對台鐵這樣的百年成科我們覺得用公司化的治理能夠來改善台鐵的一個文化那三二七這樣的一個事件"},{"start":461.081,"end":477.518,"text":"5.2萬分鐘整個改革整個台鐵的要求3月4月你說要求我們台鐵要認真研讀行車規章要防止路線電車線的故障你越要求越是重點"},{"start":478.679,"end":506.499,"text":"結果就月出包那整個這樣的過程連續一個禮拜時間一直發生那我問鄭董事長你是交通的專業你的專業大家都不以置疑那你知道台鐵一年了吧 今天啊各位不到一年九個月期待你的改革你認為公司的話真的可以解決台鐵目前的一個狀況嗎"},{"start":508.291,"end":530.818,"text":"我想台鐵現在這幾次的發包這幾次的出包呢完全就是一個SOP沒有落實那換句話說譬如說像3月17號這個部分的話呢應該在這個集電工的這個檢修方面呢一定要檢修但是呢它沒有完全落實檢修另外一個司機員呢遇到了這個我們的這個真空電路器啊壞掉的時候啊"},{"start":531.758,"end":551.631,"text":"應該要求要馬上停車檢查都沒有說SOP在做嗎那我就告訴副市長你們SOP給我的都非常OK都非常好你們SOP都做得很好啊但是人員沒有確實去依這個SOP去進行嘛"},{"start":555.834,"end":578.937,"text":"很明顯而且最重要的我以旅客我作為一個台鐵的一個旅客的一個感受你們事故發生你們的通報你們對困在車廂裡面的旅客還有繼續要可能要去救我們台鐵的旅客你們整個通報的機制都不完整"},{"start":580.099,"end":594.017,"text":"通報提示整個後續的一個辦理我只感受到不然你就退票就好了你就是退票就好了這樣的一個惡性循環一直在道歉"},{"start":595.859,"end":604.87,"text":"檢討 抱歉 檢討這樣的過程啊 所有可以來解決是 我想 謝委員抱歉不是能夠解決問題我們現在最重要的是針對這個問題怎麼來做像以這個case我們現在來做的話就是說我們要強化我們整個應變的機制"},{"start":613.039,"end":631.609,"text":"應變的機制說在整個有一個小組那麼在行動中心裡面協助他把我們的整個後續的車班的這個規劃重新調整調整以後的資訊很快的能夠到報告給這個車站跟列車上的行動的列車長讓旅客知道所以分農車長"},{"start":632.629,"end":645.949,"text":"希望用你的專業真的可以徹底的改善台鐵啦讓你可以重拾對台鐵的信心啦不然你所有人都跑去搞台鐵啦連我就不敢寫你台鐵啦"}]}},{"id":"168091","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168091","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c95ed1065f4b954987570c8d4d2e9dc784047e563c2ae16090b94474edbfc61895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱慧洳","委員發言時間":"10:00:18 - 10:16:17","影片長度":"00:15:59","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:00:18+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:16:17+08:00","duration":959,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.941593750000001,"end":14.138468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.15596875,"end":10.476593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.138468750000001,"end":15.032843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.12034375,"end":22.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.79534375,"end":46.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.42034375,"end":47.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.24721875,"end":51.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.56721875,"end":52.242218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.54596875,"end":55.313468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.29659375000001,"end":58.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.524093750000006,"end":57.945968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.75596875,"end":64.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.88159375000001,"end":67.59846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.66596875,"end":71.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.12971875000001,"end":70.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.18846875,"end":97.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.21534375,"end":89.35034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.21409375,"end":101.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.43659375,"end":104.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.27596875,"end":170.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.41534375,"end":159.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.10971875,"end":180.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.30659375000002,"end":186.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.93846875,"end":188.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.45721875,"end":240.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.90471875000003,"end":251.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.65409375000002,"end":303.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.13534375,"end":305.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.80596875000003,"end":311.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.29846875000004,"end":315.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.96471875000003,"end":336.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.49096875000004,"end":323.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.52784375000005,"end":331.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.73846875000004,"end":332.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.64534375,"end":334.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.16409375,"end":346.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.71971875,"end":345.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.42409375,"end":349.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.68096875000003,"end":365.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.18471875,"end":370.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.20971875000004,"end":368.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.36534375,"end":372.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.10784375000003,"end":402.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.28034375000004,"end":413.50221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.94534375,"end":426.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.61409375000005,"end":427.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.76159375000003,"end":470.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.12596875,"end":473.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.10471875,"end":474.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.40409375,"end":484.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.82909375,"end":482.26784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.10721875,"end":576.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.70034375,"end":584.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.9184687500001,"end":606.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.38534375,"end":594.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.35971875,"end":596.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.8484687499999,"end":601.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.5022187500001,"end":602.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.21471875,"end":612.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.4584687500001,"end":620.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.4453437500001,"end":615.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.13221875,"end":640.2178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.2790937500001,"end":626.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.2865937500001,"end":632.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.22284375,"end":635.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.17596875,"end":638.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.01534375,"end":647.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.00971875,"end":652.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.1315937500001,"end":676.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.22471875,"end":701.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.70596875,"end":717.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.3334687500001,"end":710.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":710.7553437500001,"end":710.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.97471875,"end":711.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.75846875,"end":724.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":725.58846875,"end":728.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.84971875,"end":730.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.03096875,"end":731.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":730.29659375,"end":731.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.8659687500001,"end":736.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":733.77284375,"end":734.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.9665937500001,"end":736.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":736.9115937500001,"end":746.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":750.0403437500001,"end":756.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.49971875,"end":754.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":756.7565937500001,"end":763.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.84096875,"end":757.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":763.6922187499999,"end":772.2647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.4509687500001,"end":768.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":772.3490937500001,"end":805.9978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":806.2847187500001,"end":814.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":815.61659375,"end":816.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":816.5615937500002,"end":817.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":817.42221875,"end":845.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.53159375,"end":857.0615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":857.7534687500001,"end":858.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":858.5634687500001,"end":862.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":861.2465937500001,"end":869.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":862.4109687500002,"end":862.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":862.5459687500002,"end":862.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":869.34659375,"end":871.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":871.7765937500001,"end":881.9522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.2903437500001,"end":882.0872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.6609687500002,"end":888.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":884.1628437500001,"end":885.6140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":888.75284375,"end":931.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":930.6028437500001,"end":932.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":932.0203437500002,"end":956.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":935.0578437500001,"end":935.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":938.68596875,"end":939.3272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":951.19034375,"end":951.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":957.5690937500001,"end":959.3915937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.924,"end":12.668,"text":"主席還有各位委員同仁各位政府部門的同仁大家好我們有請勞動部長洪部長謝謝請洪部長"},{"start":22.13,"end":51.047,"text":"邱委員好是 部長好我今天是想跟你交流最低服務年限即違約金條款那我想問部長請問您知道其實我們醫療機構也好護理機構也好長照機構也好常常使出最低服務年限即違約金條款來約束護理人員的離職自由請問一下部長有掌握這件事嗎我知道那您對這件事目前的看法是如何"},{"start":53.149,"end":71.748,"text":"這勞基法有相關的規定是勞基法規範在第15條之一那事實上部長覺得那相關的規定那您的看法呢這個有規定我們都知道但是您的看法當然法的規定就應該落實但的確它應該有一些相關的前提"},{"start":72.588,"end":101.327,"text":"相關前提我先跟部長建構一些基本的觀念就是我們護理人員他如果受僱於醫療機構也好長照機構也好護理機構也好那通常都跟醫院或者是護理長照機構簽訂一個不定期勞動契約那不定期勞動契約如果護理人員想離職那其實按照勞基法的規定其實只要預告僱主其實就可以離職了我想這個概念我想這個基本概念我們應該是都有掌握"},{"start":104.469,"end":129.917,"text":"那現在呢 醫院呢 因為我也大家也知道說那個護理人員慌非常嚴重嘛所以這些機構其實很害怕護理人員離職所以他就會寄出一個最低服務年限寄違約金的條款來約束護理人員的自由那護理人員其實比較單純比較單純 比較涉世未深他們就覺得說那我們簽了這個違約金條款我們如果想要"},{"start":130.737,"end":149.329,"text":"在這個條款所約定的期限以內離職例如說條款提到說護理人員你應該在機構任職兩年如果你期限戒之前離職的話你就會被刻以違約金那我們護理人員比較單純比較涉事衛生他們就會覺得說那我們既然簽了違約金條款那我們真的"},{"start":151.99,"end":179.642,"text":"在期限戒之前我們真的做不下去所以想離職了那我們也只好為了求順利離職也只好認賠了事這樣子好那現在問題來了就是說既然剛剛部長也有認知說所謂的最低年限計違約金條款他規定在勞基法第15條質疑您剛剛也提到說要用違約金條款來綁住勞工的離職自由是具有前提要件的那請問一下您有掌握是具備哪些前提要件嗎"},{"start":180.362,"end":187.503,"text":"我想事務之一上面就是有寫到嗎你要有培訓然後跟培訓費用然後還有簽約金"},{"start":188.513,"end":209.027,"text":"其實我們可以比較有體系的來講這些概念你要用違約金條款來綁住勞工離職自由你的違約金條款必須經過兩個要件的檢驗第一個要件就是違約金條款要有必要性第二個要件就是違約金條款要具有合理性那所謂的必要性就是雇主要付出相當的訓練成本"},{"start":210.908,"end":236.085,"text":"然後把員工培訓成是一個不可或缺的人物然後勞工的驟然離職會造成雇主的損失這時候雇主的利益才有需要以違約金條款來保障的必要這個叫做必要性那第二個合理性就是說你約束勞工的離職自由的年限要跟你所付出的訓練成本兩個要相當如果不相當的話就不具有合理性這樣那如果不等於掌握這兩個概念我們來操作一個實際的判決"},{"start":241.448,"end":255.778,"text":"這個實際的判決就是護理人員簽了一個違約金條款他必須在這家醫院任職滿兩年那如果提前離職的話就要賠償違約金兩個月結果這個護理人員真的是水土不服坐不下去然後要離職了這樣子那現在"},{"start":257.399,"end":275.122,"text":"院方他就提出了他們的訴求說你既然沒有做到兩年就離職那你要賠償我相當於兩個月薪水的違約金那我們來看一下院方怎麼主張院方他主張說我有對你進行新進人員的訓練課程那是這些兩年期的護理師的學習歷程那還有一些網路課程那又安排你去參加一些研習會跟研討會那請問一下我們剛有"},{"start":284.264,"end":310.961,"text":"操作過相關的定義了嘛你雇主必須是支付相當的訓練成本讓勞工成為不可替代的人選然後勞工的驟然離職會造成雇主的損失這時候勞工的利益雇主的利益才有必要以違約金條款來約束好那以這個具體來是事實來看部長你覺得這個雇主這個醫院雇主的利益有必要以違約金條款來加以保障嗎"},{"start":313.342,"end":336.045,"text":"那個跟委員說明因為第一個我就目前你這個簡報的左邊的這些相關的課程因為當然我不是護理的專業所以我不是那麼清楚知道你現在列的這些相關的課程是在護理的專業裡面它是不是一個必要或者是它是一個什麼樣定性的相關的課程這可能我也要去找"},{"start":336.445,"end":360.808,"text":"課程一定是必要我們講的必要性是指說雇主的利益有沒有必要以違約金條款來約束課程一定是必要所以我的意思是說因為你剛剛列的你剛剛列的這些事情包括這課程包括雇主有沒有相關的支出它是不是一個最基本的就薪到值的東西比方說它如果是最基本的法律要求的"},{"start":361.569,"end":369.586,"text":"跟還是說僱主也做更進一步額外進一步的培訓我自己不是護理的專業所以我比較沒有辦法從現在"},{"start":372.145,"end":399.731,"text":"其實部長你已經講到一個觀念了嘛它是不是一些必要的訓練例行性的訓練如果它是一個必要的訓練例行性的訓練那本來就是雇主你在經營一家醫院也好護理機構也好長照機構本來要負擔的基本的人事成本啊那本來就是雇主要負擔的那怎麼會把這個要負擔的基本的人事成本轉嫁在我們護理人員身上呢所以有沒有經過必要性的檢驗"},{"start":400.891,"end":425.867,"text":"部長可以再思考一下所以我說我這部分可能也要跟衛福部這邊來討論是這些課程的定性符不符合15-1他的前提的條件沒有問題那我也非常謝謝部長願意去跟衛福部來做一個專業上觀點的溝通那等一下馬上我們就會呈現司法的判決我們可以來聆聽法官對這件事什麼看好那請問一下呢"},{"start":427.848,"end":442.365,"text":"我們接著來檢驗合理性那合理性當然定義已經有了嘛你付出這些新進人員的訓練成本然後去約束勞工兩年的離職自由那如果當中顯不相當例如說付出的錢非常的少"},{"start":442.805,"end":469.616,"text":"然後呢卻約束勞工兩年的離職自由那這樣會不會有顯不相當那如果顯不相當當然就不符合合理性那如果既不符合合理性又不符合必要性你用違約金條款來約束護理人員的自由那我想根據勞基法第15條之一這樣的違約金條款當然就是一個無效的條款來那部長請問一下你覺得這個違約金條款你目前看起來會是一個無效的違約金條款嗎"},{"start":473.163,"end":490.964,"text":"一樣是有專業嗎我確實沒有對護理的專業這麼了解所以我很難我自己就下一個怎樣的判斷通常這可能會進到法院裡面沒有問題那我們來看一下法院的判決那部長再跟我們分享對於法官的這個判斷是否能夠認同"},{"start":492.466,"end":510.536,"text":"那首先我們來講必要性的檢驗那法官就認為說這只是一個例行性的教育那不是為了這個特定的護理人員所製作並沒有額外的支出所謂的訓練成本而且有一些線上的課程這些課程其實都可以日後反覆的在使用其實這本來就是例行性的訓練"},{"start":511.496,"end":532.285,"text":"那雇主負擔的成本其實是很低的那所以難以認為說醫院有付出龐大的訓練成本讓這個護理人員成為不可替代的人選所以他的作然離職其實是不會造成醫院的損失所以這時候雇主的利益就沒有必要用違約金條款來保障這是必要性的檢驗法院的看法那第二個合理性的看法就是說這個訓練的費用其實都只是"},{"start":535.066,"end":554.252,"text":"一般的例行性的訓練新進人員的訓練那你用這些例行性的訓練來約束護理人員兩年的離職自由然後他沒有達到兩年提前離職你又要科與他付一個違約金的義務這個兩個權衡之下顯不相當所以當然也沒有符合合理性所以這個案件最後就是違約金條款無效"},{"start":555.632,"end":583.326,"text":"那既然違約金條款無效當然護理人員就不用賠償但是回歸到我們的實務層面護理人員設施衛生也很單純那某個程度也是勞動教育的概念沒有非常的普及跟扎實所以他們為了順利的離職所以他們就認賠了事那部長對這件事的看法如何不知道勞動部這邊可以多做一些什麼事嗎跟委員說沒有其實我們之前也有在跟衛福部在討論是不是對於一些醫療業的"},{"start":584.997,"end":602.273,"text":"工作的現場包括他的人員有沒有可能其實跟衛福一起來合作那有更多這個關於勞動法規教育的機會包括宣導那讓大家其實能夠在這個法的框架下面能夠更加落實法尊"},{"start":603.634,"end":620.394,"text":"所以当然这是一个明确的判决明确判决那部长能够认同吗认为说这是例行性的训练然后雇主的利益没有必要用违约金条款来保障这个法院的判决就是判决我自己是认为说我们其实应该因为确实有很多法规的处理"},{"start":621.195,"end":641.702,"text":"包括行政的處理其實都會看法院的判決來作為一個重要的參考點所以我是說在這樣一個明確的法院的判決之下我想我們願意來跟衛福部來討論就是說是不是在怎麼樣狀況之下透過一個大家怎麼進一步的作為其實能夠讓法尊能夠更加落實那部長我想請問一下像這些濫用違約金條款的這個雇主請問勞基法相關的處罰是什麼"},{"start":649.988,"end":666.724,"text":"這條文 老計法並沒有罰是 老計法對於這條並沒有罰則那沒有罰則會有一個現象不公平的現象 什麼現象呢如果護理人員傻傻的笨笨的陪下去醫院多賺到了一筆十萬塊的違約金如果護理人員不從的話"},{"start":667.645,"end":696.905,"text":"其實醫院沒有拿到他本來應該拿到的違約金他其實也沒有損失那濫用違約金條款的雇主等於他沒有成本啊他違法他濫用這種手段來約束護理人員約束護理人員的自由還讓護理人員平白無故從口袋掏出這個違約金條款反正成功了多賺一筆沒成功了也沒有損失但是這個濫用違約金條款雇主卻完全沒有成本所以我在這邊想要請教部長您是否覺得應該來建議一些法則"},{"start":697.825,"end":724.425,"text":"才能夠讓濫用違約金的僱主有一些這個成本要付出啊我覺得法規的討論當然法規要不要做更進一步優化我覺得這部分當然都可以來討論啦來看實際上面的需求但是我覺得就目前來看的話我自己還是比較希望是說大家針對包括是尤其是主管機關尤其很多醫院其實也是在"},{"start":725.646,"end":746.185,"text":"相關的事業單位主管機關的管轄之內部長我先跟您分享一下不管要不要修法我們都應該進一步有一些進一步的作為那您進一步作為是除了做勞動教育因為剛剛有提到勞動教育這個措施是很明確的日後想要來深化那請問一下還有哪一些作為"},{"start":750.11,"end":772.086,"text":"跟委員報告現在地方政府有時候去勞檢的時候他們有時候在醫院勞檢他們有時候也會去問所以或許我們也可以提醒地方政府將來做一些專案勞檢或申訴勞檢順便去查一下他們提醒抽查幾位護理人員有沒有簽署這樣的一個條款然後去提醒業者這樣的約定是不是有預言無法"},{"start":772.426,"end":785.621,"text":"提醒其實就很像沒有牙齒的老虎而且可能不是沒有牙齒的老虎根本是小貓咪一隻完全沒有嚇阻的效力那我先分享一下我的做法本辦呢已經在大概一個月前就提出說要去修正勞基法79條"},{"start":788.624,"end":810.323,"text":"把濫用違約金條款的雇主呢作為79條裁罰的標的之一就是如果你濫用違約金條款就會處2萬元以上10萬元以下罰款那也許這個方向是不是可以帶勞動部帶回去研議那我接著再講第二件事情第二件事情就是說衛福部有出一個這個規則叫做醫療機構護理人員勞動契約建議應記載跟不得記載事項"},{"start":815.367,"end":830.578,"text":"那這個所謂的因記載跟不得記載事項裡頭有羅列了一些項目就是說醫院你跟護理人員簽訂勞動契約哪一些東西應該記載上去那我這邊建議如果既然沒有法則"},{"start":831.378,"end":856.608,"text":"既然沒有罰則是不是過渡期的做法當然我們日後希望有罰則過渡期的做法可不可以在這個應記載跟不得記載的這份文件裡頭要求要放入一個事項什麼事項呢就是醫院或者是機構所為的例行性訓練或者是應該負擔的訓練成本不能夠作為雇主求償違約金的基礎"},{"start":857.813,"end":880.12,"text":"可以嗎第一個這個應該是衛福部當然我知道這是衛福部這是邱文達時期如果我沒有記錯是他弄出來的一個記載因記載會不得記載事項我想我們願意配合然後來提供我們的意見那我覺得勞動部如果這邊願意支持這樣的一個建議的話當然我們有勞動部長的一個建議我們也許好好的可以去跟衛福部來溝通"},{"start":882.897,"end":900.869,"text":"所以您同意嗎我們現在最後來做一個總結就是說本辦想請你們提供資料但是其實沒有裁罰資料那我知道其實治安署的署長他上次有來我辦公室拜會他提到說雖然沒有裁罰資料但有一些輔導的資料"},{"start":902.31,"end":931.728,"text":"把一些醫院濫用違約金條款沒有裁罰但有輔導的資料可不可以送到本辦一個月內提供讓我們了解現在實務上到底濫用違約金條款的現象是如何這是第一件事那當然第二個就是說這個應記載跟不得記載事項能不能記載說例行性的或者是院方應該負擔的這個基本的雇主的訓練成本不能夠作為求償違約金的一個條款您剛也表示可以了嘛就是站在法尊的立場"},{"start":932.228,"end":956.319,"text":"當然啊法組長我們全台灣大家不是都依法行政嗎我想我們的政府也對於依法行政這四個字非常的崇尚所以我也是樂觀其成那當然另外一個就是建立裁罰機制那我請部長不要這麼快的否決待會去研議一下思考一下那有什麼難處我們再互相來交流來討論這樣子好那謝謝部長謝謝部長的支持跟這個協助謝謝好謝謝邱副委員的諮詢"}]}},{"id":"168089","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168089","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c3a357a08754f21dd811c6ac3ddeb80e04047e563c2ae160905516ffde792dc4e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林沛祥","委員發言時間":"10:18:05 - 10:24:10","影片長度":"00:06:05","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林沛祥等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林德福等31人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員涂權吉等23人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員許宇甄等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員黃健豪等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員羅智強等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員游顥等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員賴士葆等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員羅明才等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法繼承編施行法增訂第十二條條文草案」案。\n【4月1日及2日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:18:05+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:24:10+08:00","duration":365,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-5-36-5"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.556593750000001,"end":13.024718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.665968750000001,"end":15.825968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.38284375,"end":17.918468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.28846875,"end":26.727218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.63846875,"end":29.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.034718750000003,"end":114.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.91159375000001,"end":144.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.98659375000001,"end":122.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.83534375000002,"end":150.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.60659375,"end":151.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.93534375000002,"end":237.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.28096875,"end":155.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.51721875,"end":155.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.10346875000002,"end":240.07784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.07784375000003,"end":269.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.22096875,"end":269.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.80721875,"end":273.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.77721875000003,"end":284.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.89346875,"end":297.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.43596875000003,"end":354.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.41846875000005,"end":363.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.87721875,"end":362.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.73784375,"end":363.75471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.34534375000004,"end":365.13846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.581,"end":27.688,"text":"好謝謝主席首先我想請教內政部請內政部專委張專委你好"},{"start":30.308,"end":47.347,"text":"內政部長期掌握台灣最真實的人口跟家庭結構數據那單身人口持續上升頂客族成為常態少子化跟高齡化同時發生家庭的樣貌早已經不再是過去這種所謂大家族共同生活的形態"},{"start":48.007,"end":68.933,"text":"我想這應該不只是說我們全民都有感覺到或甚至講全民共識那內政部應該比我們更清楚這樣的樣貌那我就想請問內政部在你們所掌握的這些趨勢之下現行兄弟姊妹仍享有特留份的制度設計還真的符合今天台灣的社會現實嗎"},{"start":70.433,"end":85.825,"text":"當一個人一生努力累積的財產在身後卻未必能完全依照他的意志來去做分配這樣的制度是否能符合現代社會對於財產自主跟遺主自由的期待呢"},{"start":86.605,"end":114.154,"text":"內政部應該是擁有最完整的真實數據但我要誠懇的是說政策不能一天到晚只留在描述現實必須要回應現實所以我要在這邊進一步先請教內政部內政部是否願意將這些結構變遷轉化成修法的明確立場還是說內政部還是單純的把這個數據只是留在所謂統計報告而不願意跨出所謂政策表態的內部呢"},{"start":116.914,"end":143.854,"text":"如果是針對嫂子的話還有兄弟姊妹這個部分因為我代表地政司啦那這個戶政司的資料就是說如果有需要這些比較統計數據可能要會後再請戶政司那邊提供那至於今天本案針對兄弟姊妹這個特留份的部分因為內政部如果針對不動產登記的部分我們是依循民法的規定所以今天討論的結果其實我們就會支持法務部的政策跟大院的立場這樣"},{"start":144.858,"end":149.855,"text":"好 那謝謝莊委 莊委請回再來就有請法務部 我們請黃次長麻煩了好 請黃次長"},{"start":153.247,"end":181.376,"text":"委員好市長好上上個禮拜我在委員會已經詢問過這個問題了當時部長的回應是繼承偏修法牽涉範圍很大需要整體檢討那這句話老實講聽起來很周全也很謹慎但是我也要很坦白的說與時俱進很重要如果沒有具體時程我那時候問說這個會期有沒有機會他說我們努力看看那時候我第一我記得第一時間部長的回應說今年"},{"start":182.256,"end":207.816,"text":"那我會認為說這個可能會不會對於說有這方面困擾的民眾可能這已經不會是少數是否有點可惜啦如果沒有具體時程這樣的說法很容易變成改革停滯的理由因為社會在變如果法律一直還停在總體檢討那就不是審慎而是落後今天我要特地很清楚的指出兄弟姊妹特留份是一個可以單獨處理的議題"},{"start":209.597,"end":235.69,"text":"他並不然一定要綁在整部繼承篇的全體修正之下更不應該因為整體工程浩大而讓已經具備社會討論基礎的議題被無限延後所以我在這裡具體來就教法務部是否願意將兄弟姊妹特留份單獨抽離優先提出修法版本第二是否已經還是一樣期程期程期程是否已經有明確的時程規劃還是"},{"start":238.231,"end":252.9,"text":"我們還是在原則性的討論當中好 各位報告我們也可以在這邊明確的說我們就這個計程片其實要修正的法條非常多我們整個立法的政策方向就是兄弟姊妹特留份的部分我們單獨把它抽離出來單獨的完成修法"},{"start":253.32,"end":269.04,"text":"只是這個修法要不要相關的配套措施這要再研議那只是說立法期程的部分我剛才跟委員報告了我們在四月的中旬即將召開第二次的專家會議我們希望能夠在這個會期結束之前就把法案預告"},{"start":271.549,"end":284.111,"text":"謝謝我們次長明確的回答老實說這個議題社會上已經討論非常久了而人民在意的核心也非常簡單我一生所努力得到的財產能不能由我自己來決定"},{"start":285.936,"end":303.375,"text":"但很可惜我們在政策回應上面我們常常出現一個問題我們不斷強調制度的複雜性卻沒有直接回應改革的具體進度這樣的回應其實是失焦的人民要的不是再多一份研究報告人民要的是一個清楚的方向跟一個可預成的時期"},{"start":304.156,"end":328.235,"text":"那今天我用最後一句話來作為今天整個質詢最後的話語法律的價值不在於它曾經有多完整而是在於它是否能持續回應時代的變遷兄弟姊妹特留份制度是過去設定特定社會結構下的產物但今天在台灣我們已經走到一個需要重新思考個人意志跟家庭關係界線的階段"},{"start":328.835,"end":353.503,"text":"因此我在這邊要很明確的呼籲請法務部跟內政部就算內政部今天有關的相關的官員沒有來不過內政部在這邊其實很重要因為整個社會形態的數據跟真實的樣貌內政部在掌握請法務部跟內政部不要再以整體修法作為延宕的理由拿出與時俱進的勇氣回應社會已經形成的共識謝謝"},{"start":355.612,"end":363.515,"text":"更為報告其實我們一再強調法務部是支持三族兄弟姊妹特留份只是要有一兩條的配套而已好我們一起努力謝謝好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168135","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168135","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c8718f563f9f47d0abad885c3c28ba2b2afe627a357cd2d7f913bf80977d0b5285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"11:07:29 - 11:26:04","影片長度":"00:18:35","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:07:29+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:26:04+08:00","duration":1115,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.12784375,"end":3.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.06409375,"end":7.287218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.349718750000001,"end":113.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.41409375,"end":122.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.67846875000001,"end":187.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.20409375,"end":292.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.68971875,"end":295.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.61346875000004,"end":296.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.77784375000005,"end":309.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.14284375,"end":318.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.37784375,"end":323.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.24221875,"end":328.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.62596875,"end":323.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.48596875000004,"end":362.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.59034375000005,"end":371.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.96971875,"end":366.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.20096875,"end":373.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.25534375,"end":375.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.87096875000003,"end":381.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.94596875,"end":391.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.37909375000004,"end":393.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.97784375000003,"end":398.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.43284375,"end":403.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.57971875000004,"end":403.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.25471875000005,"end":406.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.61721875,"end":409.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.97534375000004,"end":413.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.36721875,"end":414.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.36284375,"end":415.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.83096875,"end":418.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.91909375,"end":441.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.58284375000005,"end":438.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.47721875,"end":491.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.29596875000004,"end":500.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.57721875000004,"end":569.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.85659375,"end":548.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.68034375,"end":611.9522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.00284375,"end":629.0803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.5190937500001,"end":649.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.3428437499999,"end":683.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.73846875,"end":658.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.07846875,"end":668.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.3272187500002,"end":672.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.8315937500001,"end":703.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.72471875,"end":691.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.9184687500001,"end":693.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.1828437500001,"end":711.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.7859687499999,"end":706.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.9578437499999,"end":711.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.39221875,"end":737.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.93221875,"end":714.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.70471875,"end":784.0772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":784.29659375,"end":787.8740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":788.3803437500001,"end":800.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":797.61096875,"end":798.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":799.29846875,"end":834.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.8034687500001,"end":875.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.97846875,"end":978.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":978.03846875,"end":981.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":982.13909375,"end":1010.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1010.50596875,"end":1011.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1011.92346875,"end":1013.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1014.06659375,"end":1016.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1016.27721875,"end":1029.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1029.9290937500002,"end":1031.4478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1030.0303437500002,"end":1031.0597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1031.80221875,"end":1033.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1031.93721875,"end":1047.4790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1046.1797187500001,"end":1073.9559687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1070.05784375,"end":1077.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1077.66846875,"end":1089.8015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1089.8015937500002,"end":1114.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1097.7159687500002,"end":1098.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1116.5484687500002,"end":1116.9703437500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.937,"end":3.402,"text":"謝謝主席,麻煩請林部長好,有請林部長"},{"start":12.586,"end":34.538,"text":"部長早剛剛有提到就是說我們國防預算的部分我們擔心會被操弄其實這個不用擔心只要我們自己不操弄沒有人可以操弄我們所以就這個部分我們只要把握核心的原則因為尤其在國防預算上面我們希望所有納稅人"},{"start":35.979,"end":50.352,"text":"辛苦的血汗錢用所當用然後我們的特別預算也不要腐爛因為它畢竟就是跟子孫借錢的所以只要我們採購的是符合我們作戰需求它是最重要的一個原則"},{"start":51.173,"end":54.355,"text":"所以就這樣子也才是我們審查的重點所以不用刻意去要把中共啦或者美國啊全部都通通扯進來我們要的就是我們的最重要的我們的國防戰力的需求我想我們不要自己嘲弄自己這個可能才是重點"},{"start":70.563,"end":88.357,"text":"那另外就是在CPTPP的部分因為最近也被拿出來討論本席其實也觀察到我們在近期其實在很多包括業務報告啊或者其他的可能有些相關的資訊上面其實CPTPP近期都沒有談了那台灣經濟跟產業高度依賴出口這個"},{"start":94.162,"end":100.805,"text":"很重要的政府都把加入CPTPP這個亞太主要的區域經貿組織當成重要的施政目標可是我們看到目前為止其實這11個成員國裡面跟台灣貿易往來其實也非常密切總共佔我國對外貿易總額的25.25%"},{"start":114.09,"end":118.012,"text":"也是占比很高那成員國當中的日本、新加坡、馬來西亞跟越南也是我國前十大貿易夥伴不管是政府或者到產業其實他們都非常關注我們是不是可以順利的加入然後它對產業會帶來的影響跟衝擊也可以希望透過加入CPTPP可以來提升台灣出口的競爭力"},{"start":139.941,"end":141.762,"text":"那為了爭取加入這樣的組織我們政府在之前其實大概也做了一些事推動了萊豬的進口而且告訴我們的民眾因為在CPTPP組織中的國家所有成員國都開放萊豬進口所以這是國際規範我們也必須要這麼做"},{"start":161.01,"end":180.576,"text":"在台灣萊豬是一個食品安全上面的議題過去民進黨在野的時候也極力的反對所有相關萊豬萊牛的進口可是現在加大宣傳向人民保證說這是我們可能要加入國際組織一個很重要的一個承諾那我們也開放了CPTPP"},{"start":188.257,"end":199.483,"text":"的部分我們除了萊豬開放以外我們也有很多根本還沒有經過協商的部分可是行政院已經向立法院提出12項修法的草案而且也都在民進黨當時人數強勢的情況之下都通過了包括修改農業管理法"},{"start":209.628,"end":211.329,"text":"把農藥的試驗資料保護期延長從上市開始起算十年非常長的時間然後修改漁業法還有投資經營外國籍漁船管理條例我們甚至有很多我們漁民的權益都把它犧牲掉了我們因為我們修過了"},{"start":229.46,"end":231.782,"text":"那另外又新訂了遠洋漁業條例就這些還有修改化妝品衛生安全管理法等等減少進口化妝品的標示這些我們已經都通過了還有包括萊豬的進口"},{"start":244.735,"end":265.431,"text":"可是我們現在看到CPTPP如果不是我們的金包夥談判副總談判代表他在他的辭職信上顯露出來的其實大家都還被蒙在鼓裡所以我們希望知道的是政府一直在做很多的開放"},{"start":266.792,"end":292.011,"text":"我們減少關稅我們甚至主動降了很多很多周邊國家包括日本我們很多的關稅主動把它甚至降到一半以下就是原來假設20我們甚至只剩下10這個犧牲都已經做出來了可是我們現在看起來我們沒有任何在CPTPP上面有的進展那這一部分部長有沒有說明"},{"start":294.269,"end":317.386,"text":"報告委員這個新DPP的重要性跟我們的努力我想大家也都了解那至於說進展怎麼樣現在可能在一個地方就是說成立工作小組之前有一個可以雙邊諮商這個是在加拿大做主席國的時候通過的那因為行政院有個經貿談判辦公室他必須去統合"},{"start":318.507,"end":342.556,"text":"整體的談判策略因為這要從戰略的角度這不是個別一般貿易的問題部長 你要說的不是我要的答案我們剛剛提到在就是那個原副總談判代表他說得非常清楚我們根本就沒有努力在CPTPP上面去加入的這樣子的一個進程"},{"start":344.056,"end":366.514,"text":"所以這是他覺得非常可惜或者他遺憾的地方這也是他提出來強力訴求的地方也是我們今天要討論的我們沒有要我們過去跟民眾講也是講這些所以部長我們要的不是你剛剛提的那些答案而是怎麼樣具體的要去做他的推展這個部分簡單的方向不好因為你們在預算上面都有編喔包括WTO是不是簡單說一下我當部長之後"},{"start":373.459,"end":397.821,"text":"我派了三個次長到像去年是澳大利亞做主席國然後也去日本也去英國那我是有整體的我認為我們是執行單位在整個經貿談判現在外交部變成我們的外館要跟人家交涉可是我剛剛講的是要有一個上面指導的戰略然後整合我們跨部會的能量然後很鎖定有對象國家比如假設今年是越南"},{"start":398.522,"end":412.953,"text":"那這個我們跟台越整個經貿發展戰略裡面去談怎麼樣互惠因為我們都知道有中國的因素然後各國的不願意去得罪中國的時候我們怎麼去突圍這個就是我想顏惠欣副總台辦代表"},{"start":413.533,"end":437.011,"text":"他認為提到的我覺得這個也是指出了包括機制上一個任務編組跟真的把它制度化 但是能量是不一樣第二個就是說所謂我們的談判戰略的指導才有我們雙邊關係的交涉我們外交部是在整個經貿談判裡面是在變成是一個我們有駐外的外館我們去交涉可是上位的東西必須要有"},{"start":437.651,"end":454.135,"text":"部長我相信因為你沒有特別提過在CPTPP也許外交部其實是有用心可是楊真你完全不重視就在這個實質性裡面清楚的揭示這樣子的一個狀況所以我們要很明確的"},{"start":456.676,"end":465.319,"text":"知道說大家要怎麼樣去共同的一個推動而不是告訴我們當我們我剛剛講了我們犧牲那麼多付出那麼多把關稅持續的下降以後我們接下來的成員接下來的一個主辦主席國是越南我們也說越南現在台商在當地有很多的投資台越的交流也非常頻繁如果我們剛剛提到的包括加拿大包括像越南"},{"start":483.184,"end":499.916,"text":"這樣我們都還沒有我們在之前付出這麼多以後在這樣子的一個條件優勢底下我們都還沒有任何的一個作為最讓人家不可以接受而且最可惡的就是他們根本不在乎我們從他的辭職信上面看到"},{"start":500.977,"end":509.884,"text":"楊珍妮她完全不在乎的情況這是我們不能接受的當國人要犧牲這麼多的情況底下所以就這個部分因為中國的因素始終存在如果中國的因素我們就認為沒有辦法克服那我們就不要再編這麼多的預算加入這些啊就這個部分我們希望外交部就這個部分必須強力的要求而且經貿"},{"start":526.917,"end":529.74,"text":"經濟部今天也在這裡就這個部分我們要求不要再晃點我們所有的國人當你用掉大家那麼多的經費的時候全部都在打假球會讓大家不能接受所以就這個部分CPTPP我們持續請外交部再提供給我們相關的這些作為"},{"start":549.819,"end":568.798,"text":"這個進展到底怎麼樣再提供書面資料好不好那經濟部可能就這個部分也可以提供我們相關的後續他的處置作為謝謝那另外駐美大使他現在已經變成職場霸凌的最高等剛剛因為他不是第一次"},{"start":570.28,"end":588.661,"text":"這個問題已經越來越嚴重所以我們希望部長可以慎重的去考慮這個部分因為這個第二次發生外交部掌握了解的狀況到底是什麼剛剛部長有稍微提到可是我們還在等這些管員要循機制去提出來嗎"},{"start":589.562,"end":610.708,"text":"因為我們都說要外交部對於這一次的事件有說持續要求各駐外管處的首長落實妥善管理及領導責任問題是被檢舉霸凌的人就是首長那我們應該要怎麼做他的處理程序是什麼有沒有比較簡單的一個做法因為"},{"start":612.208,"end":628.139,"text":"在根據媒體提出的具體事證裡面有三項第一個就是餐廳打包的菜色不如預期把主管降至副主管這是第一點第二個他的妻子在官邸換掉清潔工至少20個服務他的外交人員至少5個人"},{"start":629.66,"end":646.506,"text":"然後第三個家眷進出辦公室對官邸服務不周到在辦公室大罵文官第三項也許你們需要再做一些調查因為他的因素不是那麼主觀可是剛剛說的第一項跟第二項是不是有把主管降成副主管這個部分很明確有沒有"},{"start":650.424,"end":679.137,"text":"有一個這樣的案例但是是有事證也經過法定的程序所以我並不認為說人事的升遷然後因為個人的事情因為這沒有正式申訴那是外傳我也不希望說打擊我們外交部整個我們的行政的程序所以有申訴我們一定全力來辦沒有申訴我會主動來了解但是不能夠因為有一些涉案的人或者是私底下或是另外的再去轉傳"},{"start":680.177,"end":685.819,"text":"這樣子的話我們每一個館長在現場我們同意部長就這一個部分因為我說這個很明確嘛你就是主管變成副主管他到底是什麼因素這個你們去查查以後這個會很具體那第二個清潔工換掉20個這個也非常嚴重因為老實說清潔工他可以有什麼除非非常懶惰那你怎麼用的全部都是報告委員在美國你要去找一個清潔工恐怕都要拜託來部長所以用說20個"},{"start":707.726,"end":711.039,"text":"我們會請人士出網後去了解 至少20個"},{"start":712.698,"end":735.63,"text":"這個部分因為 要拜託來的那如果是這樣 汰換的程度這麼嚴重我想這個部分也去查 因為很明確嘛你外交人員去服務的需要五個人外交的工作非常辛苦如果在這些雜務或甚至不相干的事務上面有受到霸凌的狀況 那不是第一次如果這些聲音我們只聽"},{"start":737.791,"end":745.097,"text":"一個說法那可能還會有第三次因為我們上一次已經有經歷過一次所以不要因為他是誰的人或者有什麼樣的考量不管他是不是因為美國人是比較特殊那他是專任的還有什麼其他的考量"},{"start":753.944,"end":768.061,"text":"這個都不能影響到我們對於職場上面受到霸凌的不管是同事也好或者其他人員也好這個都不能影響這些這是基本的要求所以就這個部分我們希望不是只有聽片面的"},{"start":769.242,"end":774.669,"text":"應該要怎麼樣有具體的一個事證或者要去查查清楚不要再發生憾事以後再回過頭來想要做什麼樣的彌補那時候哭都沒有用所以就這個部分是不是請部長可以再去做一些具體的一個"},{"start":784.629,"end":811.923,"text":"對 我們對於職場霸凌 零容忍請大家如果有管道申訴沒有的話我們也會主動來了解那有些個案剛剛已經有提到比較具體的話那剛剛委員所指示的我們會來把他釐清好 謝謝不要只聽首長這樣不好意思 再利用一點時間因為我們這個WTO其實也是很重要那我們這一次因為美國現在已經把關稅工具"},{"start":813.004,"end":829.752,"text":"的工具它把它戰略化那這樣的模式正在重塑整個世界台灣也不是一個可以自由去簽訂大量的FTA或者去主導這個經濟秩序的我們也不是這樣的一個角色或國家所以就這個部分我們認為事態是非常嚴重的"},{"start":834.855,"end":839.039,"text":"就WTO的部分我們在國際經貿的體系當中最重要的立足點從來就不是政治的影響力我們這一次因為名稱我們要據理力爭沒有錯可是我們因為這樣的因素然後主動缺席這個對我們來說影響很大因為我們主要是制度上的定位我們的政治影響力其實是很弱"},{"start":858.658,"end":875.015,"text":"那WTO其實就是少數讓台灣能夠以正式會員身份去參與甚至主張權利而且要求非歧視待遇的一個國際平台所以這一次沒有出席WTO部長會議的意義不能只是看成民生的爭議而已"},{"start":876.036,"end":879.017,"text":"表面上是尊嚴的問題那其實也做了修正可是我們後來卻因為他名字寫錯或者性別寫錯我們還是沒有出席這個對我們來說會讓全球唯一一個台灣可以制度性參與的多邊貿易的這個場域我們自己去限縮我們選擇缺席那已經把我們有限的這樣子的一個制度空間我們把它縮小了"},{"start":902.807,"end":904.108,"text":"這對我們來說影響很大你有第一次 你有下一次如果其他國家還是發生這樣的事那我們就都還不要參加嗎部長剛剛其實也有委員提到韓國的問題你比之前的部長其實更敢有作為啦至少"},{"start":918.416,"end":932.151,"text":"你對韓國提出有其他的一個就是因應的一個處置作為那現在聽起來好像他們也願意做改變那如果像這樣子WTO這個是更嚴重的問題我們卻選擇缺席"},{"start":937.937,"end":942.643,"text":"讓人家不可思議因為在現在多邊的體系正在碎片化其他的國家都可以透過像這些FTA或地緣政治的聯盟他們都還有第二個選項他們還有B計畫可是台灣沒有"},{"start":954.918,"end":962.685,"text":"所以我們在WTO對台灣的重要性它不是關稅減讓而已它很重要的是非歧視待遇 第一個第二個 規則的保障第三個 是可預測性所以當這些我們自己把經貿問題把它政治化以後對台灣會有什麼樣的影響這個部分是不是簡單的部長可以簡單的回應我是同意委員我們要窮盡一切可能爭取出席"},{"start":982.362,"end":999.349,"text":"但這次為什麼最後沒有出席雖然我們書面資料也有倒查秘書處也有代為分發那最主要是說他要入境他這個入境除了矮化之外就是說因為我們沒有免簽那這個國家其實說實在也比較不是一個法治的國家"},{"start":999.989,"end":1028.812,"text":"那因此在這處理上他又沒有給我們正確的邀請函以前有一個解決方案就是說你的邀請函裡面就是以平等待我那他一開始沒有可是後來他表達他要補足這個資料可是時間已經很接近那有一些行政上的困難等等所以我是同意委員我也跟我的同仁講我們的外交處境很困難就算拿著抗議中的牌子我也要到會場"},{"start":1030.257,"end":1047.149,"text":"因為說實在啦我們不用我們尷尬是不尷尬它就尷尬但是有時候連入境都有困難的時候啊這恐怕就不是在其他的國際的場合我們可以比較去用比較屬於抗議或比較甚至一種比較幽默的方式去表達"},{"start":1047.489,"end":1056.461,"text":"現在我們因為我剛剛提到其實WTO對台灣來說是非常重要的所以如果我們這樣子連這樣子一個這麼重要的一個我們可以參與的國際平台像這樣我們都至於缺席因為你可以透過很多其他的方式"},{"start":1064.412,"end":1089.31,"text":"未來如果其他國家也持續有這樣的做法的時候我們難道就一直頭腦不清所以我這樣委員報告就是說我們就是記取這一次的經驗我們就是要求以後要主辦國都必須先承諾而且這承諾不只對我要對WO的秘書處那也要讓這些大國們支持台灣的他們也了解所以我們不要希望這個事情我們不希望它再發生"},{"start":1090.17,"end":1095.333,"text":"因為時間的關係這個部分我們還是持續認為我們不要把它擴大在政治上的考量應該要怎麼樣去要求或者因為每日都出手了那還是沒辦法那以後我們的處境會越來越艱難這個部分有什麼樣的一個比較具體的做法也希望在下一次的一個報告當中其實可以把它明確的提出來好不好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168134","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168134","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c6d10befc3f0e17397570c8d4d2e9dc78afe627a357cd2d7ffb440351d05509a35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"11:06:22 - 11:25:17","影片長度":"00:18:55","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:06:22+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:25:17+08:00","duration":1135,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.637218750000002,"end":13.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12.602843750000002,"end":14.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19.84221875,"end":20.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.83784375,"end":44.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.93534375,"end":63.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.632843750000006,"end":69.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.19721875,"end":80.05221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":81.35159375,"end":85.06409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.62096875,"end":86.81909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":86.81909375000001,"end":87.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.39284375000001,"end":89.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":90.95346875,"end":91.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.37534375,"end":92.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":97.26471875,"end":99.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.93096875,"end":107.82846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.06471875000001,"end":110.37659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.66346875,"end":120.75471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":112.84034375,"end":112.89096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":120.75471875000001,"end":131.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":132.19596875000002,"end":132.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.80346875,"end":137.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.68034375000002,"end":143.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":141.15659375,"end":141.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":142.84409375,"end":145.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.24034375000002,"end":179.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.96909375,"end":220.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.48596875,"end":257.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.77971875000003,"end":272.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":273.60846875000004,"end":276.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.73034375000003,"end":282.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":279.05909375000005,"end":279.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":281.47221875,"end":291.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.81659375000004,"end":295.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":292.32284375,"end":292.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":294.65159375,"end":294.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":295.71471875000003,"end":301.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.78971875,"end":303.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":303.03846875,"end":304.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":306.54846875000004,"end":309.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.80971875,"end":309.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.36659375,"end":316.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":315.82971875000004,"end":319.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.72409375,"end":317.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.79534375000003,"end":320.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":320.25096875,"end":322.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.34346875,"end":344.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.24284375,"end":352.81971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.37721875,"end":350.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.52846875,"end":355.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.46471875000003,"end":366.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.20159375000003,"end":388.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":389.45534375,"end":389.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":391.41284375000004,"end":399.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.51284375,"end":406.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":406.02659375,"end":406.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.88721875000005,"end":417.33284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":407.14034375,"end":408.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":417.51846875,"end":422.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.45471875000004,"end":425.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.83784375000005,"end":452.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.43659375000004,"end":457.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.05221875,"end":470.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.31284375,"end":464.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.34971875,"end":474.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":474.79221875,"end":475.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.00721875000005,"end":477.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":477.01971875000004,"end":477.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.10409375,"end":477.23909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.99409375000005,"end":480.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.81659375000004,"end":481.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":482.21721875000003,"end":482.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.16221875,"end":483.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":484.15784375000004,"end":487.36409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.85346875000005,"end":549.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.7634687500001,"end":523.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.0378437500001,"end":554.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.79659375,"end":565.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.61346875,"end":567.2334687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.88346875,"end":565.9678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.65096875,"end":590.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":590.8247187500001,"end":606.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.7522187500001,"end":596.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.1640937500001,"end":635.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.88096875,"end":644.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.49971875,"end":647.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":647.86221875,"end":726.5672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.37659375,"end":650.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":684.41346875,"end":684.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":721.5047187499999,"end":721.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":721.70721875,"end":721.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":726.8203437500001,"end":736.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.0678437500001,"end":746.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":744.48846875,"end":745.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":746.8172187499999,"end":754.9509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.4578437499999,"end":753.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.1028437500001,"end":757.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":755.84534375,"end":756.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":756.43596875,"end":771.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.1003437500001,"end":773.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":771.5390937500001,"end":772.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":773.02409375,"end":777.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.81659375,"end":778.1709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":778.33971875,"end":784.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":779.89221875,"end":780.5672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":784.0603437500001,"end":784.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.3134687500001,"end":793.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":784.38096875,"end":784.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":787.0303437500002,"end":787.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.3003437500001,"end":787.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":791.9578437499999,"end":792.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":792.9197187500001,"end":806.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":798.77534375,"end":799.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":803.3484687500002,"end":812.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":809.0859687500001,"end":810.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":811.3303437500001,"end":811.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":812.10659375,"end":814.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":813.5747187500001,"end":814.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":814.5365937500001,"end":818.6203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":815.9709687500001,"end":816.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":818.9072187500001,"end":823.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.19346875,"end":843.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":844.0678437500001,"end":850.4297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":850.76721875,"end":852.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":852.03284375,"end":853.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":853.3828437500001,"end":855.2390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":854.83409375,"end":856.3359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":856.82534375,"end":857.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":857.3147187500001,"end":860.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":861.5503437500001,"end":864.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":865.14471875,"end":866.3090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":867.1528437500001,"end":874.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":870.9497187500001,"end":872.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":874.66221875,"end":879.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":879.58971875,"end":882.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":884.51721875,"end":890.6765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":887.06534375,"end":887.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":890.57534375,"end":892.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":892.70159375,"end":899.0803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":896.78534375,"end":897.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":897.1397187500002,"end":897.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":897.17346875,"end":933.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":933.64034375,"end":933.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":933.9272187500001,"end":935.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":934.3997187500001,"end":935.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":935.7834687500001,"end":939.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":940.0190937500001,"end":943.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":941.7065937500001,"end":942.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":943.7822187500001,"end":945.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":946.95471875,"end":954.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":955.7803437500002,"end":959.5772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":960.20159375,"end":961.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":962.2097187500001,"end":965.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":963.5259687500002,"end":963.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":964.3190937500001,"end":965.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":965.53409375,"end":979.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":979.74284375,"end":980.5359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":980.5359687500002,"end":989.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":988.87221875,"end":997.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":998.4909687500001,"end":1011.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":999.3178437500001,"end":999.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":999.97596875,"end":1000.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1009.6115937500001,"end":1012.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1012.2609687500001,"end":1012.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1013.18909375,"end":1013.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1013.6953437500001,"end":1014.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1015.02846875,"end":1016.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1016.2265937500001,"end":1020.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1020.0234687500001,"end":1022.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1022.47034375,"end":1022.8584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1022.79096875,"end":1026.8240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1026.89159375,"end":1048.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1040.66159375,"end":1040.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1040.7122187500001,"end":1041.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1048.6265937500002,"end":1050.1790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1050.1453437500002,"end":1051.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1051.4278437500002,"end":1061.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1061.48534375,"end":1067.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1067.66159375,"end":1074.6478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1072.84221875,"end":1073.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1074.3440937500002,"end":1077.4322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1077.90471875,"end":1085.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1083.2372187500002,"end":1087.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1085.38034375,"end":1085.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1088.2828437500002,"end":1089.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1089.88596875,"end":1102.5928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1100.68596875,"end":1101.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1102.39034375,"end":1105.2928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1103.80784375,"end":1103.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1103.9765937500001,"end":1104.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1105.2590937500001,"end":1120.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1119.9065937500002,"end":1121.1722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1120.96971875,"end":1122.4715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1122.4715937500002,"end":1131.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1133.47409375,"end":1133.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1133.49096875,"end":1134.89159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.824,"end":12.665,"text":"我們先請行政院副秘書長李副秘書長請副秘書長你好"},{"start":20.908,"end":39.626,"text":"副秘書長好今天委員會排檔的專案其中很關切的就是有關於霸凌的議題這一個大家都很痛心委員會新副代表他去世的消息大家也想要知道真相昨天我在院會質詢的時候"},{"start":41.167,"end":69.499,"text":"其實就有直接問院長那這個昨天楊珍妮代表她沒有上台接受質詢但是她有跟媒體說她跟副代表這個生前互動是良好的但是隨即呢昨天下午就有顏慧欣的友人出來說顏慧欣從3月12號去世到3月29號骨灰入塔"},{"start":70.819,"end":92.228,"text":"這個楊真理代表連一通慰問電話都沒有我想請教李副秘書長就行政院掌握到的情況是這樣子嗎各位報告這個部分我們沒有獲得訊息所以你們也不清楚我們不清楚那行政院有派人去關心嗎慰問家屬也不清楚這個不清楚"},{"start":100.62,"end":120.574,"text":"這個我覺得行政院你們掌握能力好像也太弱了吧這個事情發生到現在你今天要來委員會那畢竟這個顏慧欣是副代表也是一個很重要的職務那發生這樣子的事情我覺得行政院總該有人實際去關心慰問一下吧結果你今天來委員會你們都不清楚"},{"start":120.894,"end":144.575,"text":"不過如同昨天委員執行院長的時候院長當下接到幕僚的訊息的時候他就有表達他的關心但我是說從知道他3月12號就是去世到3月29號中間行政院都沒有派人再去慰問跟關心家屬這個部分我們不清楚"},{"start":145.322,"end":163.785,"text":"完全不清楚那你們就是完全沒有掌握我想這件事情外界這麼關心就是我們希望我們公務人員在公務體系裡面大家得到都是一個友善的職場那如果連顏惠欣這麼高職務的一個副代表他可能都會來自上級長官的一個霸凌"},{"start":164.325,"end":176.698,"text":"然後抑鬱難生我覺得這件事情真的是值得大家來關注那今天我就要問就是事實上根據你們的公務人員執行安全及衛生的防護辦法裡面第35條這個保訊會在報告裡面也寫得非常清楚當你們"},{"start":184.269,"end":195.239,"text":"知道職場霸凌的情況不一定要申訴就是你們其實是可以採取一些調查的行動的這個是在今天的報告裡面有講到那我就要問副秘書長這一條有在落實嗎如果以顏惠欣的個案事實上她在辭職信裡面就有提到這個會被嚴厲的訓斥這樣的一個情況"},{"start":207.429,"end":225.571,"text":"那看起來這個也沒有處理第二件其實是於大雷案我昨天其實也問了這個院長那是在我一再的逼問底下院長才指示說希望外交部可以去了解那之前外交部是不想了解他說沒有人透過正式的申訴管道"},{"start":226.132,"end":248.737,"text":"他說沒有這一案媒體報導的這麼清楚但是外交部的回應是說因為沒有正式投訴所以他就採取不告不理就是沒有申訴人所以他就當作沒有發生但是按照你們的這個辦法裡面你們35條你們是可以主動去調查的那為什麼之前外交部這樣的一個態度"},{"start":250.177,"end":272.053,"text":"這個我們行政院沒有主動去要求他應該要先去了解啊包括這20名的這個清潔工還有這個外交人員這個被當工友使喚等等這些情況你們應該是可以要求外交部要主動了解為什麼也沒做這個動作是我昨天質詢才要求院長應該要這樣子下指令的"},{"start":274.309,"end":301.086,"text":"這個是屬於外交部的權責但是辦法裡面講他們也是公務人員35條不是說你們可以主動去講話就我們行政院院本部的那個防治作業要點裡面的話我們對於知悉的話我們是會下去釐清事實那報紙都已經報成這樣了不是知悉了嗎所以我們3月26號知悉以後我們就馬上成立調查小組要去釐清事實"},{"start":301.846,"end":321.585,"text":"外交部這件案子嗎不是我們院本部的外交部是外交部要去處理的所以你們院本部也26號有立案然後是針對這個余大雷這個案子不是不是余大雷案子不會到院本部來所以他是外交部的執掌"},{"start":322.426,"end":344.307,"text":"我知道那如果這樣子的話就變成說如果外交部駐外單位發生任何霸凌的事件他就是話外之地因為行政院管不著所以再怎麼嚴重那就是尊重外交部就是他沒有一個更上級的單位可以往上申訴行政院也不是那是總統府嗎是總統的職權這個就是我看到看起來是有漏洞"},{"start":345.288,"end":373.273,"text":"昨天是因為在行政院院會我質詢院長院長也認為說應該要處理那要不然本來外交部次長他是覺得就是沒有人沒有人透過政治管道甚至說他是沒有要受理的耶那如果未來再發生類似這樣的一個案件請問怎麼辦這是不是漏洞那你整個行政院你要不要去檢討不可能我們駐外單位就是劃外之地啊派駐到那邊也都是我們公務人員"},{"start":374.013,"end":388.777,"text":"那他們發生一些職場霸凌的事件如果外交部官官相互他採取不告不理他完全就是說因為你不敢具名啊你沒有正式申訴啊我就當作沒有發生那恐怕會更嚴重這怎麼辦 副秘書長這個我們在現在的那個規定裡面的話對於知悉的部分的時候他是要下去釐清事實"},{"start":400.43,"end":416.139,"text":"那你的35條有沒有有沒有範圍有沒有到我們這一些駐外單位嗎有啊所以我剛剛講像于大雷案你們就可以啊你們就可以要求外交部要去了解你不是還是上解督導單位還是說外交部現在不歸你們只歸總統"},{"start":417.56,"end":422.843,"text":"不是 外交部他自己有外交部的我知道 但是他做得不好啊他被動啊 他消極啊那這個時候怎麼辦這個就是我要跟你講的現在這個勞動部在我們的監督底下他現在提出來的機制"},{"start":434.148,"end":451.699,"text":"他是可以有更上層的單位就是說這個原單位企業他若不受理的話他可以跟公部門投訴但是你公部門我就問你外交部不受理的時候怎麼辦可以跟行政院投訴嗎還是跟總統府投訴你的機制你的更上位的那個監督機制到底在哪裡"},{"start":455.475,"end":477.001,"text":"我覺得這個是個漏洞喔副秘書長我希望你們回去之後你們要把這個洞補起來啊現在看起來就是這樣子啊你都尊重原單位我就問你原單位如果沒有受理或他受理不公那請問他還有再上一層的機制嗎有嗎可以上到哪裡不知道"},{"start":484.853,"end":507.234,"text":"這個會後我們會再去釐清一下好 我要求這個部分的洞應該要補起來不可以有這樣子的一個情況既然我們之前發生了這一些霸凌的案件我們覺得應該要做好那當時是勞動部是勞動部這邊的修法但是公務人員這邊你們也說你們要好好來修法 要來落實"},{"start":508.035,"end":531.481,"text":"那現在顯然我覺得你們現在的辦法裡面還是有漏洞我希望這一塊要補起來這個就是我講的現在我們在勞動部裡面就是他可以地方勞工局投訴然後外部第三方強制的介入但是我們現在公部門裡面沒有更上層的單位這個應該要做另外一個我要問你的是這一個小組的審議剛剛也有委員提到了我們現在"},{"start":535.262,"end":538.714,"text":"以楊蕙欣這個案為例現在已經有四個外部的委員"},{"start":539.485,"end":566.482,"text":"就是來做調查嘛 對不對那第一個是誰來督導這件事情讓他可以更完整我昨天也跟院長講了第一個我要求的是這個涉及到霸凌的當事人他要不要調理限職因為他如果這個主管他是最高主管目前還在這個職務上面他沒有暫時調理限職請問他整個辦公室他以下他所掌管的人員有人敢講真話嗎"},{"start":568.84,"end":590.631,"text":"會不會就是礙於這樣的一個壓力他都還在這個位置上誰講馬上就被發現然後對他的保護其實是不周全你們有沒有考慮過這樣的一個問題你要讓調查還原真相涉及霸凌的當事人主管是不是需要暫時請假或調離限制讓這個調查可以更深入 複民長你的看法呢"},{"start":591.292,"end":610.713,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們現在的外部委員正在調查嘛是那協助我們把事實釐清那我們會依照調查的結果還有防護委員會的審議決議的話來處理我知道我要告訴你的是調查結果能不能還原真相"},{"start":611.354,"end":635.113,"text":"在於他能不能接觸到這一些跟事件相關的人而這一些事件相關的人他會不會有來自上級的壓力他可不可以有一個好的保護然後他敢把事實真相完全說出來大家都還記得當時勞動部的霸凌案的時候第一次的報告是霸凌案不成立的有沒有調查 有有沒有還原事實 沒有"},{"start":636.094,"end":656.332,"text":"所以這個就是關鍵後來我記得洪澄漢部長還說他設了一個信箱所有的人就是可以指到他那邊就是完全不會洩露出去那我不知道公務部門你們這邊行政院的做法是什麼可不可以真的保護到吹哨者要不然有調查但是會變成沒真相"},{"start":656.952,"end":679.748,"text":"因為你調查到的不是最核心最敢講真話或是礙於事實壓力你的這個調查報告可能就只是流於形式沒有還原真相那我具體建議一個是剛剛講的涉及霸凌的主管你要讓他暫時調離限制這是一個建議第二個是所有的包括像楊蕙心個案她的友人這個爆料者"},{"start":680.248,"end":700.749,"text":"你怎麼樣想方設法讓他們願意講出最真實的真相這些調查委員有沒有接觸到他們還有包括現在被指涉的楊真理他之前他服務過的包括國貿局跟他互動的單位包括外交部擴大調查範圍這是必要的這個也是去稀釋不要讓當事人你只調查少數人這少數人的壓力就很大"},{"start":703.371,"end":710.798,"text":"你調查多一點人的時候就是他可以免除那個直接被指涉的壓力這個是在調查過程當中要蠻細膩的我不知道你們有沒有考慮這些如果這些你們沒有很仔細的一個去討論跟執行的話將來的調查報告恐怕會不符合就是大家的期待家屬可能也覺得沒有還原真相這個你們可以做到嗎"},{"start":727.234,"end":745.585,"text":"跟委員報告 剛剛委員講的這些點的話我們回去的話 都會提供給我們的調查小組委員讓他做審議的參考現在這整個是誰在主導 誰在因為還有更上位的小組審議 誰是主持人是副秘書長嗎 還是誰我們審議委員會的話 有12個委員外部委員 主席是秘書長"},{"start":755.191,"end":777.319,"text":"是秘書長擔任主席但是我們之前會前的時候也有在開會因為他自己是北美協調委員會的小組委員他會自請迴避所以你是主席自請迴避完以後我們會委員互推代理主席"},{"start":777.839,"end":798.324,"text":"好 這個主席也很重要就是一定要很客觀的來審理所有的事實家屬需要真相 社會也需要真相那你們預計多久可以完成我昨天跟院長說希望一個月之內可以完成調查你們可以加快嗎我們規定是兩個月院長昨天也跟委員承諾我們會盡速的來完成但是我們不會刻意說拜託委員趕在一個月之內完成"},{"start":803.345,"end":815.496,"text":"我知道但是要加速好不好而且那個主要要接觸到真的知道真相的而且讓他願意講出事實這個才是關鍵好不好還原事實的真相最重要對好謝謝那你先請回我請那個勞動部我們洪部長"},{"start":818.999,"end":836.169,"text":"就是公安的問題 我很快的要幫我們這些從事演藝工作的臨演來請命因為我們看到現在這些臨演可能是我們現在安全網的破洞這個有調查 這個也是來自你們自己的調查52%從業者因公負傷 只有0.7%申請災保的給付"},{"start":844.133,"end":865.912,"text":"那最近爆發的這個案件呢他具組從來沒有幫他保勞保或災保所以這樣一個情況等於是這是舊的數據最舊的 那最新的有改善嗎這是災保法之前的數據那你們現在更新的數據你告訴本席啦對 但是這是確定這是災保法之前的那最新的你說"},{"start":867.399,"end":879.107,"text":"最近我們可能要再找一下可是目前的狀況因為災保法通過以後後來通過請工會協助然後等等等他的機制大概就不是這個數據了那為什麼這個臨演還是沒有災報"},{"start":885.498,"end":897.868,"text":"當然這個個案的狀況是可以檢討可是我說數據本身這不是現況的數據好啊 那你就告訴本席最新的數據對 那我覺得我們再來看一下有沒有最新的數據的話我再提供這樣好不好好 我要指出來是這邊還是有人沒有受到保障他的職業安全沒有受到保護特別是過去我們可能真的比較忽略臨時演員這一塊那因為有爆發這樣的一個事件我希望"},{"start":911.9,"end":931.555,"text":"你們可以好好的去改善這樣的一個現象那我這邊有三個建議我覺得這一些影視的這個臨時的演員勞工也不應該被拋棄他們還是應該要被好好照顧那第一個你們可不可以做到要求這一些臨演要百分之百投保這個職業災害保險"},{"start":933.7,"end":960.989,"text":"其實雖然他是臨演但是他還是可以請領的他還是可以請領的沒有投保的情況底下也可以請領跟委員報告只要他是受雇勞工是具有雇傭關係的他到職他就他是承攬他不是雇傭臨演現在被發現他只有承攬他不是雇傭這個個案是雇傭關係"},{"start":962.487,"end":983.199,"text":"這個是你們後來查到是雇傭是不是所以他是可以的根本說明這個案子發生之後我自己親自也主動找李遠部長那我們也針對目前對於這個影視圈的這個因為我們有指引嘛但我們也看到指引裡面其實確實有些不足沒有落實所以指引裡面有不足之處"},{"start":984.5,"end":1010.605,"text":"那也有一些部分在部分的比方說拍電視劇的部分特別不容易做好那我具體問你啦職業這個安全衛生自動檢查表要不要事先審查你們開會討論完之後需不需要他們現在是不用送的要不要要不要送審讓主管機關審核覺得你這個有做到因為有很多是爆破啊高空跳啊就是都是一些設計比較危險的那你們現在其實是沒有這個部分應該是會送影視局啦對"},{"start":1013.294,"end":1035.754,"text":"要嘛這是送隱私局會有一個自主檢查表對但是他們的那個對於職安的意識我們現在比較希望的方向是針對一些高風險的拍攝行為對那這些高風險的拍攝行為我們現在正在跟隱私局討論是不是應該想要設計一個這個在前端事前通報的機制所以"},{"start":1036.314,"end":1047.06,"text":"不只是這個安全衛生的部分尤其特別針對高風險的部分我們應該提前先掌握那這部分正在跟影視局還有跟業界那目前正在針對這個機制的討論正在討論中所以還沒有討論出來現在正在討論 對"},{"start":1051.482,"end":1076.97,"text":"好 這個部分我要求你們要趕快討論出來 這個的確是過去大家都會忽略大家看戲看得很過癮 但是從來沒有好好去思考這些臨演 他在承受這些高風險的時候我們國家的制度 政府的制度有沒有事先有一個比較強制性的要求跟檢核去確保他在那個過程當中的安全其實這個部分真的是被忽略了其實我們的確看到這裡面政府會有一定的責任 所以我們也跟"},{"start":1078.03,"end":1104.816,"text":"文化部在討論包括我們相對應的這些記錄其實都變成是應該變成文化部在補助的時候判斷的依據你們多久這個新的機制可以演繹出來你們的目標跟委員報告其實目前在配合子安法裡面的附屬法規也有把這個部分放進來所以我們應該是會在六月底把這個法案做法所以會做修法會做母法的修正然後再做配合"},{"start":1105.416,"end":1131.184,"text":"這是隨著去年底職安法修法以後我們也希望把這一塊考慮進來放到附屬法規裡面所以應該我今天剛有說我們希望7月1號其實職安法的部分可以就附屬法規經過預告以後可以上路啦所以7月1號可以上路對我們希望是7月1號好我們希望在這一塊就是要補足就是我們去照顧到這些臨演他們的工作職業的安全好謝謝謝謝王雲美委的發言"}]}},{"id":"168136","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168136","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c494091c800ed9644bd67b93b5004dc02afe627a357cd2d7fb328fc7562c8dfc65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"11:10:08 - 11:27:22","影片長度":"00:17:14","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:10:08+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:27:22+08:00","duration":1034,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.047843750000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":2.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.03909375,"end":2.5115937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.51784375,"end":19.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.14596875,"end":23.031593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.031593750000003,"end":23.402843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.402843750000002,"end":23.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.39784375,"end":107.87909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.92971875,"end":172.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.91096875000002,"end":175.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.12159375000002,"end":184.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.10346875000002,"end":190.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.98846875,"end":200.05034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.45659375000002,"end":193.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.05034375000002,"end":201.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.83909375000002,"end":202.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.19346875000002,"end":202.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.22721875000002,"end":208.89284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.46721875,"end":205.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.89284375000003,"end":238.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.96409375000002,"end":256.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.03784375,"end":259.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.29409375,"end":277.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.86784375,"end":261.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.11409375,"end":279.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.03784375000004,"end":280.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.28659375,"end":282.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.19784375,"end":285.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.99471875,"end":287.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.35721875,"end":290.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.50034375,"end":292.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.01471875000004,"end":295.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.32221875000005,"end":298.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.43159375000005,"end":300.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.94596875,"end":300.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.04721875,"end":316.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.41596875000005,"end":324.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.35159375,"end":327.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.89534375,"end":327.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.94596875,"end":332.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.99659375000005,"end":328.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.59971875,"end":330.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.89909375,"end":397.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.28096875,"end":400.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.33471875000004,"end":406.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.21221875000003,"end":439.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.86909375000005,"end":442.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.36659375000005,"end":445.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.30284375,"end":449.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.59784375000004,"end":454.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.50409375000004,"end":457.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.24221875,"end":457.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.45721875000004,"end":459.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.31784375,"end":465.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.96221875000003,"end":467.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.37534375,"end":474.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.19784375,"end":471.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.97784375000003,"end":496.15596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.10471875,"end":501.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.79221875,"end":502.90596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.08721875000003,"end":507.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.14971875000003,"end":512.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.82846875,"end":514.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.80284375,"end":515.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.3547187500001,"end":529.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.9397187500001,"end":530.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.85096875,"end":532.1840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.25159375,"end":532.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.3103437500001,"end":542.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.4909687500001,"end":540.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.66784375,"end":551.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.34221875,"end":548.6709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.85221875,"end":549.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.13471875,"end":566.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.42346875,"end":566.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.71034375,"end":601.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.89471875,"end":607.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.9115937500001,"end":602.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.30284375,"end":646.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.59659375,"end":661.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.91909375,"end":687.3328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.3328437499999,"end":687.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.51846875,"end":687.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.9909687500001,"end":696.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":697.47471875,"end":702.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":703.0603437500001,"end":708.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.9622187500001,"end":716.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.04971875,"end":718.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.5134687500001,"end":721.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.09971875,"end":721.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.11659375,"end":721.1840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.1840937500001,"end":723.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.12471875,"end":726.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.2084687500001,"end":727.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.2422187500001,"end":750.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.2590937500001,"end":728.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.09096875,"end":755.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":753.4153437500001,"end":753.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.02284375,"end":754.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.3559687500001,"end":755.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":755.45721875,"end":756.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.8959687500001,"end":755.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.98034375,"end":766.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.7178437500002,"end":761.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":765.68346875,"end":781.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":781.74846875,"end":802.9265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":804.39471875,"end":807.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.9384687500001,"end":825.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":820.83096875,"end":821.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.19721875,"end":833.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":833.16659375,"end":835.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":835.71471875,"end":873.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":873.98721875,"end":875.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.97846875,"end":878.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.4422187500002,"end":882.8972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":883.01534375,"end":891.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":888.2465937500001,"end":889.9509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":890.30534375,"end":894.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":894.7265937500001,"end":964.3697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":964.96034375,"end":974.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":974.96721875,"end":979.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":980.0803437500001,"end":980.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":983.94471875,"end":987.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":987.06659375,"end":987.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":987.91034375,"end":988.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":988.43346875,"end":988.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":989.9184687500001,"end":992.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":992.7365937500001,"end":999.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":999.25034375,"end":1031.1947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1031.5659687500001,"end":1032.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1032.5953437500002,"end":1032.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1032.6797187500001,"end":1032.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1032.81471875,"end":1032.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1033.1690937500002,"end":1034.2490937500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.369,"end":2.09,"text":"好,謝謝主席,有請教育部政醫藥部長好,請政醫藥部長上備巡台,謝謝"},{"start":28.584,"end":45.724,"text":"韋恩好部長好剛剛有提到台獨頑固分子那我想沒有AI主權就沒有獨立主權我想AI的人才技術真的是下一個世代最重要的也包括教育部長不知道有沒有看過周星馳的電影"},{"start":46.825,"end":66.577,"text":"我是新爺的粉絲,在電影《九品芝麻官》裡面有一句非常經典的台詞,拿明朝的劍斬清朝的官。我看到部長你都在笑,顯然你可能也是粉絲,我至少看過這部片。用來比喻舊時代的制度來治理新時代的現象,這邏輯是荒謬而且語法無據的。"},{"start":67.518,"end":86.873,"text":"既然不能用明朝的建來展清朝的官為什麼我們可以用3G時代所制定的課綱來教育5G的孩子呢我想部長您的笑容怎麼臉上消失了這真的很不好笑而且非常離譜當3G的時代的通信已經在2024年6月30號已經全面在台灣關閉以後"},{"start":88.334,"end":103.4,"text":"同個年代的產物也就是108課綱仍然被奉為台灣中小學教育的規念本席一直向來都非常關心台灣數位科技教育的推展那部長啊我也必須要非常感念您啊2024年的7月份呢對於108課綱的說法說"},{"start":108.188,"end":122.018,"text":"明確地講法律沒有明確規定每十年要大改一次因此沒有118課綱但是會對於科技領域的課綱進行局部微調加入AI以及數學學習的內容這是您的原話結果"},{"start":123.599,"end":138.476,"text":"將近兩年的時間過去直到今天我們登上國教院的網站科技領域的課綱依然是107年就是2018年9月份所制定的3G時代的東西部長承諾的AI以及數學學習的部分"},{"start":138.996,"end":161.857,"text":"目前只聞樓梯響部長近來有很多科技大廠就在呼籲啊人才人才人才能源能源能源那能源呢我們也看到啊賴清德總統啊已經說啊要從幾何店啊要願意放下神主牌人才的部分我們則沒有看到教育部有任何的回應甚至前幾天啊公平會公佈深層市人工智慧報告"},{"start":162.498,"end":190.132,"text":"明確指出業界普遍認為台灣現階段人才培育速度難以跟上需求請教部長教育部何時能夠完成科技領域課綱的微調跟務委員報告確實在這個AI的一個世代裡邊我們一直我們看在108課綱裡邊它就有科技領域科技主義是要微調嘛對不起我時間很有限你不要再重複我的問題我問你什麼時候可以完成啦"},{"start":191.158,"end":212.249,"text":"我們現在就在做我們現在的課程課程所謂從課程教學跟老師的真容我們現在事實上都一直在做那什麼時候嘛我就說什麼時候做到什麼時候啊因為108課綱是科技素養嘛在科技素養裡面就直接我們就談AI不再談3G了好那我們就來看先看教育部的回文說108課綱"},{"start":215.86,"end":238.289,"text":"據前瞻性已經可以將世界趨勢產業發展大陸學生的學習本部未維持現行課綱的穩定性沒有要修改也沒有要微調啊部長這是2026年的教育部要打臉你2024年的正部長嗎還是您底下的這些同仁陽奉陰違不遵守部長微調108課長的指示呢"},{"start":239.365,"end":255.21,"text":"我想這裡邊可能當時話沒有講清楚跟我們抱歉因為主要在科技素養裡邊本來我們過去可能是教教這個PE2但是現在我們直接就進AI就是說同樣是一個純燒鞋我們現在講的是課綱啦我們現在講課綱啦課綱有沒有AI"},{"start":260.359,"end":287.094,"text":"很前瞻性嘛 前瞻性啊哇 又前瞻性又有世界趨勢好 那我來請教部長你說我們有科技領域課綱嘛 對不對有前瞻嘛 AI嘛 請部長猜一下這本課綱從頭到尾出現過幾次人工智慧 幾次AI 是不知道很前瞻嘛 世界趨勢嘛 出現幾次這麼重要的文件"},{"start":288.413,"end":316.468,"text":"部長竟然沒有概念啊科技領域的中等學校的課綱出現幾次人工智慧答案部長不知道對不對根本不知道這個幾次真的我不曉得這一本課綱啊從頭到尾只出現過一次啦只有一次四個字就是人工智慧這樣更誇張的AI這兩個字啊完全沒有提啊所以我們的學生在學的時候到底AI人工智慧"},{"start":317.509,"end":332.66,"text":"完整的理念是完全不足的早在2016年谷歌的人工智慧就已經在棋盤上面委員是這一個領域的專家當然我們教育部如果有不足的歡迎委員跟我來做專業的主導我現在就點出問題嘛我現在點出問題我們一起來解決啦"},{"start":335.822,"end":358.837,"text":"那現在我們其實看到這個真的不能再怠惰下去了我們真的是希望贏回2024年的鄭部長我們真的應該要趕快微調了不要再只是講我們有在做什麼時候我們現在部長您看兩本是前一任部長一本是您這個AI指引用普丁的方式在搞我們的AI教育這樣夠嗎"},{"start":360.538,"end":387.617,"text":"我想這可能還是完全不夠的真的能讓學生認識AI 了解AI 善用AI嗎那我們認為啦AI還有所謂AI素養數位素養都完全不夠課綱裡面對AI的描述也完全不足那我想要考一下這個部長啊數位世界裡面的數位素養要去理解它 學習它大家常用emoji來這個社群互動啊部長看一下很好的範例喔這個女星安海社會開通最帳號啦前"},{"start":389.638,"end":399.648,"text":"總統蔡英文底下留言三個小圖示部長可不可以幫忙我們全國的師生翻譯一下這三個小圖示是什麼意思看一下部長您的素胃素養"},{"start":405.559,"end":430.316,"text":"請委員指導這一題我是讓分耶 這個很簡單 你看那個主席都在笑了我很佩服啊 蔡前總統的小編太厲害 這個叫做真羨慕啦很羨慕的意思啦安海社會的那個真羨是脆的意思啦 這串在一起的意思沒有關係 這個梗就是素未素養的一部分啦那我覺得有人會不知道 有人會知道"},{"start":430.996,"end":439.039,"text":"也許我們下一步 部長我們也可以來補充一下那也再做一下測驗啦這個emoji是什麼意思左邊是什麼翻譯一下這沒有陷阱啦 部長就是你現在的表情啦笑啦 開心啦中間呢 中間翻譯成中文是什麼也是笑 喜極而泣"},{"start":458.607,"end":473.579,"text":"笑到掉眼淚好啦可以啦笑哭啦那第三個是什麼這比較難了這比較難了試試看倒立著笑是不是笑翻過來也不錯很有創意"},{"start":475.209,"end":502.729,"text":"這叫陰陽怪氣的意思啦部長我們用這個賴總統尷尬又不失禮貌的微笑來這個對您的程度我只能給你這樣的一個微笑啦那我們在看AI素養數位素養我再請部長看一段影片判斷一下這是不是AI偽造的訊息美國第一夫人梅蘭妮與AI機器人一同亮相的影片就在白宮啊白宮的背景啊"},{"start":504.201,"end":531.995,"text":"部長 你覺得這是AI偽造的假影片嗎確實現在的假影片確實是這是真的還假的啦 部長部長很好 我覺得部長這個精神很棒要很仔細看才能回答 沒錯這要給部長一個肯定我跟部長報告啦這是 要不要說一下嘛"},{"start":534.346,"end":551.196,"text":"您是你不行啊部長你這樣子不能逃避寫答案的那個責任這您現在我質詢您要回答好不好我同意我一定遵照委員的意思來辦來做沒有啦沒關係部長說不出來沒關係啦因為委員是職業的專家我不敢在委員的面前部長"},{"start":552.718,"end":566.039,"text":"對 謝謝 謝謝沒有沒有 大家都不夠專家我們AI時代所有人都在同一條起跑線上所以要 教育部拜託要讓我們在新的起跑線上讓所有的學生都要能夠往前衝這部影片是真的"},{"start":567.16,"end":590.176,"text":"為什麼因為他的這個帳號是有一個金色勾勾Twitter2022年就發布了金色勾勾就是企業的帳號而這個影像完全是真實的AI時代不是只是手機裡面的AI是走出來了走在白宮裡面啊結果我們的課綱科技領域最人工智慧提到一次四個字人工智慧懂不懂啊部長"},{"start":591.577,"end":606.709,"text":"這種科技教育原地踏步我想不是只是您在這裡說委員我尊重我謝謝您的精神但要take actionaction talks louder than words好不好 拜託我們事實上現在有規劃了一個未來人才AI的能力圖像"},{"start":609.38,"end":635.022,"text":"好啦我知道部長您自己也有點要笑哭了啦這個我們都知道同仁也很努力不夠好不好真的不夠這個稿子我都知道同仁準備很努力真的不夠啦課綱微調好不好課綱科技的部分的微調2024年的您不要打臉2024年的你自己啦那最後我爭取一點時間啦其實芬蘭有一些例子我希望教育部的同仁可以去研議啦"},{"start":636.343,"end":661.443,"text":"他接下來要強調數位參與權要作為基本公民權每個人都要有平等使用AI的機會目標很具體喔住在偏鄉的阿嬤都要懂AI這是芬蘭部長本席先前有提醒過教育部AI要大力推廣而且要在終身教育全面的推廣上次質詢完以後教育部有沒有加強終身教育階段的AI教育資源"},{"start":662.724,"end":687.8,"text":"這個確實我們在中生教育這個社區大學裡邊我們也請這個中生師能夠跟社區大學裡邊能夠管開類似的一些AI科技教育的部分就是科技教育所以我們現在事實上我也去看了這個彰化的一個社區大學裡邊我們看到一個80歲的女士也在操作"},{"start":688.28,"end":715.942,"text":"這是很好的例子謝謝教育部但是本席也整理過了台灣的學生或者所有人最常使用的AI工具要錢的對吧有20美金的600塊台幣的有6000塊台幣的知行要合一我謝謝有提供知的教育知道但是用付費的跟付很貴的費用的到底差在哪裡學生有沒有那個能力去知道"},{"start":717.113,"end":719.823,"text":"有沒有這個能力知道我想這個當然"},{"start":721.144,"end":746.973,"text":"老師在上課的其實怎麼樣去做那老師有沒有辦法報帳去付錢去教學有沒有這樣的預算跟我們報告當我們這一個這一個AI這一個方舟人才培育計畫我們確實考慮到是不是在老師的教學裡面也能夠有一些部分的經費的一些補助太好了太好了我們確實是有這樣對已經在討論這一個議題好要"},{"start":750.914,"end":777.295,"text":"做好不好 我們每次問AI再討論你2024年討論到現在了我們當然中央跟地方來合作看怎麼樣能夠因為老師在教他會用到這個附會的軟體部長你們的高度還是很重要啦先前我們曾經引用Global AI Index台灣賣AI全球第一用AI全球第二十一遠遠落後新加坡日本韓國啦我這都已經倒背如流了部長"},{"start":778.035,"end":802.306,"text":"文化部的文化幣是很棒的政策教育部有沒有辦法研議AIB我們已經講了一整年了啦剛剛提到的偏鄉阿嬤用AIB可以來用付費的AI老師可以用AIB來教學生學生可以用AIB來體驗付費的AI跟沒付費的差別在哪裡這也是學習對AIB發放進程有沒有什麼具體的進展"},{"start":804.677,"end":824.277,"text":"最後我想我們內部我們來討論這個我們會持續跟同仁保持緊密的聯繫我想主席也會認同這真的太重要那我最後給部長一個非常重要的idea這是open source的idea 開源的部長我們研議內部做了很多討論教育部所屬的圖書館"},{"start":826.254,"end":846.532,"text":"可不可以率先做起成為台灣數位平權的領頭羊管管有AI這不是只是喊話而已圖書館裡面的電腦可不可以有AI訂閱的服務可不可以訂20塊美金的可不可以訂200塊美金的只要你有一個借書證你可以去使用這台電腦"},{"start":847.233,"end":872.42,"text":"你可以體驗一下付費的AI畫出來的圖字都不會歪付費的AI畫出來的寫出來的文章它可以教導我很多的知識AI就像一個有汪洋大海的圖書館而且它還可以跟你一起協作管管有AI的目標讓教育部所屬的圖書館成為台灣民眾接觸先進科技的平台的第一站跟媒介有沒有機會"},{"start":874.042,"end":901.29,"text":"有沒有機會部長這idea真的很棒喔謝謝委員這一個非常專業也非常良善的一個建議我想我們來做啦太讚了喔部長可不可以在一個月內將相關研議結果書面提供給本席初步就好啦一個月喔真的因為AI真的走得很快來跟委員來做報告好最後我今天真的非常感謝主席願意讓我借用這麼多的時間喔那我最後要跟部長分享啦"},{"start":902.37,"end":917.766,"text":"芬蘭真的例子可以參考其實那個觀光有AI他們也在做部分我們一定可以做得比他更好那因為為什麼每一個AI的晶片都台灣在賣的嘛我們應該要讓台灣的每一個孩子都更加的能夠使用到AI那還有一個很重要的議題啦"},{"start":918.627,"end":937.941,"text":"芬蘭不僅一己之力躍升AI科技強國並且大力推廣免費的政府做的免費的AI線上課程叫Elements of AI他除了加會他自己本國的國名還把這個課程免費送給歐盟所以現在歐洲很多國家170個國家透過200萬人的超過200萬人透過這個平台來瞭解AI部長"},{"start":944.466,"end":964.02,"text":"全球有12到14億的人口使用中文那當然我們美麗的繁中也是有很多人在使用那今天教育部有沒有辦法抓緊時機讓14億人利用繁體中文的教材來學習AI我們最了解AI我們中華民國我們台灣是最了解AI的"},{"start":965.034,"end":987.312,"text":"要了解AI看台灣要了解AI看台灣的繁體中文我看到官員也都點頭了這個我們有沒有辦法更積極呀來推動一個真正的AI教程可以跟客干為調一起進行好不好有沒有辦法有開麥嗎"},{"start":989.997,"end":998.259,"text":"AI人才方舟計畫我們就會做這一個事情我想我們一起來研議部長AI發展一日千里"},{"start":999.406,"end":1019.802,"text":"希望教育部可以發AI幣這是民進黨執政有可能一個非常重要的德政我們也不分黨派我們也讚美文化幣我們也讚美運動幣可是人才教育AI的對接小米社會的斷層促進數位的平權提升科技的禁用這是不分黨派的"},{"start":1020.602,"end":1030.696,"text":"內容教育的提升14億中文人口學習AI的機會就掌握在部長您的手上好不好這一點我們希望一起來努力提升我們台灣在AI世界的話語權好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168088","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168088","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c4a2d0af972ba28a9bd67b93b5004dc024047e563c2ae1609e4b6af63088ab7755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"10:06:30 - 10:19:21","影片長度":"00:12:51","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:06:30+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:19:21+08:00","duration":771,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.047843750000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":1.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.603468750000001,"end":11.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.759093750000002,"end":13.665968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.86346875,"end":20.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.28096875,"end":26.676593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.773468750000003,"end":35.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.26159375,"end":39.180968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.619718750000004,"end":41.307218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.26909375,"end":43.180343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.20971875,"end":44.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.96909375,"end":46.892843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.34846875,"end":47.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.00659375,"end":57.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.43534375,"end":63.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.750968750000006,"end":69.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.48409375,"end":75.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.23409375,"end":79.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.96784375,"end":92.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.15159375,"end":92.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.48471875,"end":95.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.76284375,"end":95.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.23096875,"end":120.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.36784375,"end":112.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.49721875,"end":128.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.85471875000002,"end":135.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.03096875,"end":144.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.84909375,"end":138.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.70909375000002,"end":143.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.80596875,"end":160.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.29284375,"end":180.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.30971875,"end":161.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.42471875,"end":195.39284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.81471875000003,"end":199.20659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.54409375,"end":219.82784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.92471875,"end":229.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.81784375,"end":231.70784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.78784375,"end":234.32346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.47534375,"end":235.15034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.55534375000002,"end":238.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.89659375000002,"end":243.62159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.61721875,"end":246.47346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.96284375000002,"end":257.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.08784375,"end":259.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.02409375,"end":283.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.75034375,"end":286.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.99034375,"end":317.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.02784375000005,"end":336.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.68346875000003,"end":334.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.02909375,"end":340.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.27284375000005,"end":344.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.75346875,"end":345.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.10784375000003,"end":345.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.29346875000005,"end":347.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.03159375,"end":350.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.22534375000004,"end":350.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.91284375000004,"end":359.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.08159375,"end":364.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.92346875000004,"end":374.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.61409375000005,"end":375.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.07784375,"end":375.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.26346875,"end":375.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.38159375000004,"end":377.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.41534375000003,"end":377.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.44034375,"end":377.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.76096875,"end":377.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.77784375000005,"end":386.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.03096875,"end":378.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.85784375000003,"end":380.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.83596875,"end":388.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.02096875,"end":421.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.60221875,"end":424.96034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.38221875000005,"end":425.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.59721875,"end":431.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.03096875,"end":438.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.21659375,"end":432.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.33784375000005,"end":441.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.04659375000006,"end":446.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.88096875,"end":454.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.37346875000003,"end":454.87971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.87971875000005,"end":460.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.82034375,"end":462.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.99659375000005,"end":472.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.02471875000003,"end":481.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.99409375000005,"end":480.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.47034375000004,"end":494.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.53596875000005,"end":498.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.59846875000005,"end":502.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.90596875000006,"end":503.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.85096875000005,"end":511.41096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.17034375,"end":515.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.7647187499999,"end":525.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.1184687500001,"end":520.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.2197187500001,"end":520.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.2778437500001,"end":530.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.6315937500001,"end":532.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.70721875,"end":545.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.7240937500001,"end":533.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.02596875,"end":571.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.45034375,"end":558.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.21346875,"end":561.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.8403437500001,"end":575.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.16909375,"end":574.2703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.28721875,"end":574.7934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.26596875,"end":575.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.99159375,"end":576.3797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.3797187499999,"end":578.5734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.65784375,"end":583.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.5009687500001,"end":600.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.38096875,"end":599.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.3759687500001,"end":608.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.84409375,"end":602.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.0290937500001,"end":607.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.9653437500001,"end":618.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.03284375,"end":610.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.85534375,"end":610.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.34346875,"end":621.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.7397187500001,"end":625.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.2790937500001,"end":637.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.92346875,"end":653.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.63784375,"end":662.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.9653437500001,"end":682.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.9584687500001,"end":680.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.1609687499999,"end":702.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.8103437500001,"end":683.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.14346875,"end":685.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.29096875,"end":685.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.87471875,"end":714.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.0290937500001,"end":717.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.30284375,"end":718.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.85096875,"end":725.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.62221875,"end":728.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.44909375,"end":726.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.7822187500001,"end":730.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":730.11096875,"end":762.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.41034375,"end":731.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.4228437500001,"end":733.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.18221875,"end":733.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.17346875,"end":763.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":763.89471875,"end":780.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":780.6853437500001,"end":791.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":791.56971875,"end":793.0378437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.636,"end":26.431,"text":"好謝謝主席有請部長請部長到質詢台委員好部長好部長剛剛柯委員下去以後啊他講了一句話你可能沒聽到他說你是一個好人"},{"start":27.83,"end":43.019,"text":"但是我一直要想我們不能夠把所有的事情建立在各個部會首長是好人的一個基礎上而是要把它建立在制度上就像你剛剛說的不要讓我看到你絕對會出力"},{"start":44.244,"end":66.679,"text":"但是有多少我們沒有看到這是重點所以不只是增加眼睛我們更希望透過制度透過檢舉透過不要只是找立法委員我們能夠處理多少這樣子的零星案件他已經變成零星變成很多的通案的話我想是制度上有問題不管是剛剛喬生的問題到校園爛樹的問題到現在校園暴力的問題"},{"start":70.561,"end":95.067,"text":"前幾天又出了一個所謂的用棍棒敲頭的案件您知道嗎我想這個事情到底要怎麼處理有委員為了這樣子還要求我一定要排公聽會一定要排這個案子要來審他所謂的希望有特殊案例的孩子要轉介到其他的單位來做一個培養那您覺得這樣的說法對嗎"},{"start":97.264,"end":119.703,"text":"我想教育的一個難處就是我們很難把某一個事件變成全部大家都一致的處理但是我也同意委員剛才所提我們在很多時候是要建立制度所以校園怎麼樣防止有一個更友善校園而是沒有死角的一個校園讓我們怎麼樣在課間或者放學的時間"},{"start":121.918,"end":127.982,"text":"校安人員學校的一個幸福人員能夠或者導師能夠全力的投入到協助"},{"start":128.965,"end":158.195,"text":"學生青少年的一個這一個發展我想這都是我們在努力的我知道我們都努力但是不能夠僅靠愛的教育啊你不能說因為校園暴力多我們來多一點品德教育就這樣子而已不是說品德教育不重要因為他當然會有這樣一個行為絕對不是一日之行程的嘛我們先來了解我們是用從親師親子教育親師合作到校園的一個友善環境的一個所有的一個努力包含我們國教署在"},{"start":158.955,"end":179.958,"text":"這一個去年就有這個前面我都知道包括你的夜光天使願意來支持我想這個都是不管是事前我們來做一些相關的教育事後我們也希望說有一些強力的手段能夠介入這是家長端這是老師端這是其他正常願意認真上課的學生都希望的"},{"start":180.538,"end":194.424,"text":"所以我們還是回歸到今天的主題前言我們談了這麼多但今天我們就教師法25條我想今天的報告寫得很清楚25條我們為什麼今天要來討論你的報告裡面就寫得很清楚引發校園爛樹一綠"},{"start":196.065,"end":219.566,"text":"省着教师非自愿停止工作以及现在近年物价大幅成长下尚难充分的维持基本生活跟家庭照顾的所需却有再检讨精进之处这个是你的报告所写的所以我的版本很简单现行条文说的补发其停聘期间全数的本薪"},{"start":221.167,"end":242.935,"text":"還有我還多了五項考核獎金年終獎金職務佳績學術佳績地域佳績簡而言之就是四個字權益還原就如同今天的教育報告你們的裡面所到所寫到的爛樹一律非自願停止以及生活照顧的所需我認為"},{"start":245.134,"end":258.851,"text":"應該要補發這五項這五項不是額外的優惠是教師在原聘任的狀態下就應該領取的待遇結構的一部分部長您怎麼回應我的版本"},{"start":260.229,"end":286.265,"text":"我感謝委員的一個對老師權益的一個關心但是確實我們學校裡邊不是每一個老師都有兼行政工作也不是每一個老師都有兼導師但是我們怎麼確保他最基本的所謂的薪水每個月那個薪水就是本鳳家學術研究會這應該的我從將近兩年前進來我跟地方在"},{"start":287.125,"end":304.644,"text":"老師在座談的時候我聽一聽就是還是同理心將心比心我認為他的薪水應該被保障當他被不實指控這也是我們第一個階段在處理校士會議以後把濫訴匿名投訴的拿掉接著再來支持老師當他有"},{"start":305.385,"end":330.6,"text":"受到不當的指控或者誤解的時候回他 回復他清白不是來自於他 歸咎於他個人的我們本來就應該把整個月的薪水給他所以就像你剛剛講的嘛不是每個人都有行政家級不是每個人都有教師家級所以我所主張的1加5並不是他一定領到滿 領到有啊一定也要看他原本的薪資待遇結構裡面有沒有這一項啊"},{"start":331.32,"end":343.726,"text":"所以你只說你的一加一我認為他就已經喪失他原有的權益了嘛建立制度一個完美的一個未來社會的一個想像當然有時候沒有辦法一出"},{"start":345.411,"end":371.473,"text":"一次到位你又要說無法一觸即成了這個誰不知道但是我還是希望這件事情還人家清白了就應該要好好的重視他的問題啊但是我想整個來講醜英社會的一個公正性您剛剛報告寫得很清楚非自願停止工作啊證明清白了我們現在就是應該要修法進行補發"},{"start":372.794,"end":397.225,"text":"是學校讓教師暫時不能服刑的我覺得不合理因為他的清白他本來就應該領著所有他該有的一些性質概慮結構的時候他是因為學校讓他暫時不能服刑他不是自願不做這件事情啊所以就不應該把沒有服刑的後果全部算在教師頭上啊"},{"start":398.826,"end":424.767,"text":"所以我們一直在講還他清白就應該要原有的責任都全部給他我想剛剛已經在談論到這麼多的問題我們教師能力不足校園爛數的問題以及現在我們看到我們要怎麼樣還他們清白之後給他們該有的權益這都是讓第一線的老師願意再回到學校最後的動力啊所以您在主張一加一的時候我覺得就是沒有在為老師想"},{"start":425.404,"end":447.038,"text":"沒有啦跟文報告你也知道我是小學老師出身我非常清楚第一線上我也擔任過兩次的地方的教育局的局長我非常熟悉第一線上老師的各項的一些他們的挑戰所以我也說你是一個好人但我也要告訴你你也知道我是三個孩子的父親是"},{"start":447.398,"end":459.924,"text":"站在家長的角度我都願意幫老師講話因為我知道對老師好就是對我們的學生好如果沒有老師我們的孩子的未來就可能會接受更差的教育"},{"start":463.146,"end":481.455,"text":"就是溺愛我們有一些老師他事實上你如果錢不應該給老師老師領了他也會覺得心虛我們反而陷他於不義這樣子啦部長再思考看看啦我希望能夠更全面的保障教師權益才符合公平這個我們的想法是一致的所以今天"},{"start":482.775,"end":497.254,"text":"遭委要逐條我也建議遭委今天現在院會還在施政總質詢是不是再給部長時間再想一下建議逐條能夠緩一緩不要急著我們是1加5不要1加1最後我再問一個問題"},{"start":499.653,"end":514.8,"text":"我想接著問學校運動設施補助案向我們部長來請教一下請問部長現在教育跟體育分家了請問你同意運動部在學校運動設施的補助上"},{"start":515.876,"end":539.273,"text":"只負責棒球跟足球嗎你同意嗎你覺得這合理嗎他現在的意思是其他的他一概不論任何運動設施喔都要由教育部來負責補助喔跟委員報告因為我並沒有聽到運動部有這樣的說法我現在告訴你了運動部給我的答案就是運動部只負責棒球跟足球場其他"},{"start":540.174,"end":567.416,"text":"所有的運動設施全部教育部自己要負責你同意嗎請你回答我我想應該他可能沒有把話講完因為還有一些專項還有一些許多的這些屬於政策上這一個在推動的那請問目前你有白紙黑字去了解這些分工的這個部分我想我們那個張料次長他都定期跟運動部這一個洪次長都會有一個雙邊的一個溝通協調"},{"start":569.798,"end":586.185,"text":"那這個部分我想委員所關心的我們來了解現在運動部要推給你啊那我再幫你爭取權益啊但我希望你應該要了解你目前到底有多困境有學校能夠蓋棒球場跟足球場應該很少"},{"start":587.466,"end":601.741,"text":"九成以上的其他運動設施都要由教育部負責如果你同意這樣子的分工我只能說啊你會很辛苦我們現在在爭取很多的考察的時候也遇到這樣的問題你剛剛跟我講的是專班相關的運動設施可能是針對比如說體育班"},{"start":609.888,"end":625.455,"text":"專項競技類的但是就不要跟一般教學的設施一起審查的話我想體育班拉出來他們才有機會可以獲得補助啊現在我們看到這樣的規定我們也希望他可以提出申請但問題是你們不會補助啊"},{"start":626.365,"end":653.99,"text":"所以這個問題在分工上你跟運動部我覺得你還要再好好的協商我們這些委員對於現在這樣子的考察遇到狀況我們沒辦法接受那基本上制度上就委員所言則上我們是都有共識的那我想委員剛才所提的也許我們這一個是不是運動部上話沒有把它講清楚我們事後再來了解所以我現在就想了解嘛 操場"},{"start":654.75,"end":678.955,"text":"跑道 籃球場 射箭場 羽球場 游泳池 網球場這些誰來補助 講清楚說明白所以部長你可以多久給我一個答案這基本上是由教育部因為體育教學但是如果屬於專項的這個競技型的一些團隊上的一些這個訓練那當然是運動部 我想我們會後再把它弄清楚"},{"start":679.855,"end":701.444,"text":"委員說造成委員的困擾兩個禮拜內給我答案好嗎兩個禮拜好可以嗎可以可以上個禮拜四我在教文辦這個考察我去台中教育大學十小看他們輕艇校隊台中教育大學的十小輕艇隊培育出多位國家代表亞運的選手像這樣子的輕艇校隊補助案要找誰"},{"start":702.324,"end":724.822,"text":"你知道嗎清庭基本上它是比較戶外的水域的活動應該是跟運動部的關聯性比較大但是如果在個案上來講我們來看怎麼樣來我們現在部長說應該是運動部啦我不怪你但運動部說叫我找你所以我就撐得很納悶今天我會遇到的問題我呼籲所有的委員你們都會遇到"},{"start":725.7,"end":742.242,"text":"一起來釐清這件事情最後30秒我要感謝部長願意大力的支持夜光天使延伸到國中目前事辦兩年的成效都非常好我想還是要希望部長繼續能夠支持夜光天使能夠"},{"start":743.223,"end":760.56,"text":"事半延伸到國中的夜間的教育政策我們來推動夜光天使3.0脫貧是一條非常漫長辛苦的路但教育無疑是公平也希望有一條公平的路能夠讓新興學子透過自己的努力在教育制度上能夠向上繼續"},{"start":762.722,"end":790.383,"text":"來就學能夠有這樣的可能性所以我們要支持就像你剛剛說的雖然對於暴力事件我們沒有辦法很多方法但現在你說的品德教育同理心也好我們都希望夜光天使多一點接觸就來實施這一些教育這部分我希望一定要加油一定要支持好嗎一定好謝謝我們現在對偏鄉離島還有非三會式的學校我們大概都有這個前面來支持這個夜光天使拜託你謝謝"},{"start":791.645,"end":791.826,"text":"謝謝樂天為委員質詢"}]}},{"id":"168126","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168126","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cab80ec0a1d7b4b4c331a35e1dda586aeafe627a357cd2d7f2c7d51a1cd78116b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:03:00 - 11:08:20","影片長度":"00:05:20","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「能源轉型政策下我國產業發展布局，及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就「AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及扶助政策規劃與執行情形」進行報告，並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:03:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:08:20+08:00","duration":320,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.8153437500000003,"end":3.7097187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.16534375,"end":8.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.77221875,"end":9.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.56534375,"end":10.054718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.387843750000002,"end":12.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.324093750000003,"end":15.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.53471875,"end":17.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.88471875,"end":18.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.01909375,"end":22.609718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.54159375,"end":28.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.735343750000002,"end":29.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.88221875,"end":34.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.962218750000005,"end":40.446593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.070968750000006,"end":50.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.80784375,"end":59.009093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.110343750000006,"end":66.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.82221875,"end":69.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.12971875000001,"end":78.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.85409375,"end":80.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.16596875,"end":89.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.62034375,"end":98.98596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.44159375000001,"end":100.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.82534375,"end":101.98971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.98971875000001,"end":109.58346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.84159375,"end":105.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.65096875,"end":115.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.22784375,"end":125.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.20971875000001,"end":126.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.91409375,"end":129.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.45784375,"end":130.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.99784375000002,"end":136.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.26721875,"end":145.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.24034375000002,"end":149.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.26534375,"end":158.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.09471875,"end":161.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.54159375,"end":163.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.60909375,"end":187.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.34284375000001,"end":164.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.47784375,"end":164.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.41409375,"end":168.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.86534375000002,"end":168.91596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.51221875000002,"end":204.65721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.65721875000003,"end":204.67409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.67409375000003,"end":204.69096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.69096875000002,"end":204.70784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.70784375000002,"end":205.12971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.12971875000002,"end":214.78221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.14659375000002,"end":206.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.29346875000002,"end":211.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.30534375000002,"end":227.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.42346875,"end":216.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.48909375000002,"end":231.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.97784375,"end":241.83284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.42346875,"end":242.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.52471875,"end":247.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.46971875000003,"end":243.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.12784375,"end":264.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.29346875000005,"end":265.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.79971875,"end":266.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.09909375,"end":267.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.75284375,"end":276.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.54909375,"end":278.67096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.87346875000003,"end":286.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.53471875,"end":299.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.98971875,"end":291.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.54534375000003,"end":304.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.28284375000004,"end":310.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.14284375,"end":310.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.44659375000003,"end":311.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.48034375000003,"end":310.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.71659375,"end":319.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.06221875,"end":313.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.54221875,"end":320.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.89659375,"end":320.74034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.269,"end":27.909,"text":"這邊再講一下因為剛剛已經跳過了所以因為我以為你們都敢來我都尊重但時間只有三分鐘大家把握一下時間那葉元之是最後一個葉元之是最後一個了下一位質疑請彭光愷主席謝謝好主席謝謝麻煩請市長請金正恩市長"},{"start":34.185,"end":49.914,"text":"來 次長直接請教 因為我剛剛在交通委員會一樣問就是中東的戰事的部分那現在機票今天已經確定要調漲國籍航空長程機票大漲2300元但現在不是機票漲的問題而是油夠不夠用的問題"},{"start":50.914,"end":76.689,"text":"交通部剛剛講是說因為油的庫存等等相關還是在經濟部這邊可以掌握最實際的狀況可是現在面臨到一個部分是其他國家的航空公司來到台灣其他國家要求我國國籍的航空公司飛到他們那邊不加油就是我們要自己載油去飛啊飛來回啊那就變成是其他國家已經有在控管油了那我們到目前為止有沒有這樣的一個計畫或者是說預估來 請說明"},{"start":79.623,"end":100.141,"text":"我們那個原油石油的法定存量是90天那我們現在存量是到150天所以目前因應中東這個情勢我們當然中東那邊的油源可能就會減少所以目前我們的這個中油的部分已經在美國澳洲還有西非巴西這個部分調度油"},{"start":101.082,"end":128.942,"text":"調度我知道都要努力嘛但我現在講說其他國家東南亞尤其東南亞東北亞國家已經有這樣的一個措施了那我們過去這幾一個月的時間從228到現在4月1號我們中油補貼了多少錢我們不是講是說漲價的部分我們都補貼嘛那上最新一次更新是六十幾億嘛那到今天一個月了我們航空男友是沒有我現在不會講航空男友全國的油"},{"start":131.613,"end":156.149,"text":"我們已經吸收了大概將近70億了啦70億啊 對嘛所以現在本席看到的問題就是說當其他世界各國有這樣做的做法中東戰事到底會什麼時候結束 您知道嗎其實我們很難預估啦很難預估嘛 就是會很難預估也因此你現在講即便我們講說安全庫存90天或是說我們跨胸部保證現在150天那150天或90天內中東戰事有可能結束嗎"},{"start":159.167,"end":186.971,"text":"其實我們都一直持續在調度所以本席現在才講的重點在於是我們要超前部署防範未來我們都有所以我現在看到其他國家有這樣的一個做法我剛剛跟交通部長陳士凱也講是說要跟經濟部開會兩個禮拜內訂出標準看是我們到什麼時間譬如說我簡單講假設我們安全庫存量只剩50天的時候是不是要開始控管"},{"start":187.651,"end":214.372,"text":"就是說那其他飛機來台灣那我們先以我們國際航空加油為主還是用什麼樣的步驟先把這個遊戲規則定出來而不會造成國內或是國際上面的大家的一個恐慌那也可以這個說一解十嘛 是是不是這樣子 是跟我們報告其實中東戰事大概已經持續三四個禮拜了一個 將近一個月 就一個月嘛對 其實我們的這個油的庫存都沒有減少"},{"start":215.793,"end":216.433,"text":"庫存沒有減少?"},{"start":216.433,"end":240.882,"text":"都沒有減少就是維持一百 就是一百五十天的這樣的一個存量所以表示說我們其實整個有緣的調度其實都有陸陸續續一直補充進來所以目前來講我們在調度原有的部分其實是沒有太大問題但你認為是說這樣的調度的狀況可以維持多久?因為我現在國際上 其他國家都沒有那我覺得是 其他國家來我們台灣來取經"},{"start":243.399,"end":263.972,"text":"國際有這樣整席點出一個國際的狀況所以說我才想是說我們預先部署超前衛來那還有韓國他們現在甚至有國內要求公務員不要開車上班或是分流開車上班就是避免韓國國內的油都已經有在做緊縮了那我們有沒有這樣的一個規劃跟打算"},{"start":264.892,"end":282.527,"text":"即便你現在講說沒有預留但是是不是能夠先來做規劃本期講是說我們最好不要用到但是你的Plan B Plan C一定要有我們都有其實我們就有三套劇本一個就是這個市場調現貨然後同業調貨市場買現貨同業調貨然後這個"},{"start":287.01,"end":304.018,"text":"當你調不到貨或是買不到現貨的時候你就不用再講這些所以我本席才會講的是說你現在應該因應的是如果有一天有可能調不到貨或買不到現貨的時候要有什麼樣的方案預先做準備公告給國人讓國人比較有個心理預期準備"},{"start":305.439,"end":320.197,"text":"剛剛交通部長講是說會找經濟部開會兩個禮拜內提出相關的辦法可以做到嗎是可以主動也跟交通部這邊聯繫兩個禮拜後給本席跟經濟委員會的委員讓國人比較有個清楚明白的方向這樣可以嗎可以可以好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"168125","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168125","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cb4ed37a3d277b2c1bad885c3c28ba2b2afe627a357cd2d7f8d2e5e7e7ae529c45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"10:54:43 - 11:07:11","影片長度":"00:12:28","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:54:43+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:07:11+08:00","duration":748,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.10221875,"end":4.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.792843750000003,"end":12.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.602843750000002,"end":14.543468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.77971875,"end":15.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.859718750000003,"end":16.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.05784375,"end":20.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.84971875,"end":28.684718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.86596875,"end":32.228468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.62471875,"end":47.837843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.658468750000004,"end":35.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.02971875,"end":35.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.040343750000005,"end":71.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.01096875,"end":90.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.91971875,"end":107.25471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.47409375000001,"end":115.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.43471875,"end":146.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":146.64096875,"end":151.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.73721875,"end":186.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.70721875,"end":154.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.51659375,"end":194.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.02221875,"end":192.05159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.59971875000002,"end":194.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.49409375000002,"end":196.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.01721875,"end":196.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.03409375,"end":198.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.00409375,"end":199.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.28659375,"end":220.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.39721875,"end":221.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.10596875000002,"end":227.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.23159375,"end":242.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.33471875,"end":243.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.97596875000002,"end":244.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.02659375000002,"end":244.33034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.54971875,"end":246.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.19096875000002,"end":246.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.76034375,"end":251.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.33346875,"end":252.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.97034375,"end":256.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.05409375,"end":258.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.47159375,"end":264.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.32284375,"end":271.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.70159375000003,"end":272.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.52846875,"end":274.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.08096875,"end":274.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.63784375,"end":281.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.61971875,"end":283.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.18909375000004,"end":294.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.25659375000004,"end":285.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.93846875,"end":302.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.53221875,"end":311.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.13409375000003,"end":318.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":318.69846875,"end":322.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.81596875,"end":332.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":332.80596875000003,"end":334.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":334.24034375,"end":337.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":337.34534375000004,"end":338.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.01596875,"end":346.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.98096875000005,"end":349.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":349.32659375000003,"end":353.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.93346875000003,"end":354.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.32159375000003,"end":368.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":368.49659375000005,"end":381.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":381.94596875,"end":384.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":384.51096875,"end":387.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.81846875,"end":415.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.18034375,"end":396.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.24284375,"end":399.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.69284375,"end":410.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.39221875000004,"end":419.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.62784375,"end":424.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.14534375000005,"end":451.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.22971875,"end":429.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.35971875,"end":434.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.87596875,"end":457.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.37721875000005,"end":469.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":461.81534375,"end":461.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.57346875,"end":479.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":479.97284375000004,"end":487.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.02221875000004,"end":505.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.74096875000004,"end":505.79159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.80846875000003,"end":515.0559687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.72346875000005,"end":512.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.7690937500001,"end":526.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.95284375,"end":542.7647187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.88909375,"end":529.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.9397187500001,"end":530.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.0915937500001,"end":530.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.96721875,"end":568.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.0222187500001,"end":569.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.1865937499999,"end":597.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.4228437500001,"end":600.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.33784375,"end":627.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.18596875,"end":639.3740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.2009687500001,"end":643.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.60534375,"end":708.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.6459687500001,"end":733.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.98034375,"end":728.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":728.99721875,"end":729.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.8784687500001,"end":735.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":736.05096875,"end":747.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.5603437500001,"end":743.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":743.62784375,"end":743.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.93159375,"end":743.9653437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":28.491,"text":"台湾日本关系协会秘书长跟农业部次长不好意思台湾日本关系协会秘书长洪英杰跟常务次长农业部次长等一下再请部长谢谢还有农业部次长好谢谢次长"},{"start":30.873,"end":47.521,"text":"市長最近我們看到很多農業上面的災損是因為沒有雨沒有水那導致有很多的農作物都需要急需現金救助或者是災害救助等等"},{"start":48.137,"end":70.873,"text":"那在我們嘉義族旗它是有高階梨就是台灣的梨樹種但是他們現在有遇到一個小問題就是說這些梨樹他們通常都會跟日本來去進梨稅那進梨稅的部分呢主要大概是從這個新瀉那或者是秋田等等的看他們自己的喜歡什麼樣的梨種那特別是新瀉可是現在問題在於說"},{"start":74.085,"end":90.156,"text":"量啦第一個是量不夠然後第二個就是說有中間商那導致說他們變成說他的利潤可能都被中間商拿走那爭取不到這些好的離稅那就沒有辦法產出好的這個水利給我們的鄉親朋友們那他們"},{"start":91.477,"end":115.099,"text":"說法我認為也可以請次長跟看一下台日協看怎麼樣來去做他說我們現在很多台灣的縣市首長都在推縣市外交跟日本的各個縣知識在建立關係那把這種我們的需求那透過廣告文宣也好讓更多可以提供的人知道那這樣我們的supply供給就能增加那需求不變的"},{"start":116.52,"end":145.76,"text":"需求不變的狀況供給增加的話那當然價格也會下降那我們也可以得到更好的離稅那這個部分市長有沒有辦法跟我們的台灣負責日本相關業務的這些外交同仁們來去談這件事情因為我想不是只有嘉義縣會有類似這樣子的問題我們當然也是希望說嘉義縣跟農業局來跟中央的這些政府們一起來去推動這個部分各位請市長簡單來回應一下然後接下來再請我們台日相關的同仁來回應"},{"start":146.901,"end":161.733,"text":"非常謝謝委員關心跟支持台灣的農業因為其實講到不管是哪種農產品最終端的產品是好的那它的很重要的是源頭比如說高階梨的那個梨碎的來源那就很重要所以我們非常樂意做這樣子的橋樑"},{"start":163.815,"end":185.944,"text":"就是說希望透過縣市對某個縣也好對城市跟哪個城市也好那去確保就是說雙方因為在農業的結合是密切的是不是可以結合成一個不管是姊妹市也好或是戶房也好或者是對於供貨來源品質的一些協議我想我們都非常樂意來做這樣子的協助跟平台"},{"start":186.544,"end":197.894,"text":"好那這個部分的話我就請我們縣的農業局再跟農業部來對接那請問台日協可不可以簡單來回應一下主席好委員好台日協洪英傑報告"},{"start":200.382,"end":220.062,"text":"其實因為離歲的關係苗曲縣有個三朝町跟北龍町跟我們的大渡鄉還有石岡鄉並結姊妹都市那是因為離歲的關係那所以每年大概春天的時候就會有卓蘭卓蘭鎮的人去因為要拿離歲所以去苗曲縣訪問"},{"start":221.448,"end":241.883,"text":"那鳥取縣他們也反映一個問題他們因為人口高齡化的關係所以他們去取這個離稅會有就是說越來越少的情況這是他們結構的問題啊那我們也會幫忙就是說促進兩個都市交流然後譬如說因為我們年輕人能加去那邊拿"},{"start":243.356,"end":270.73,"text":"打工度假嘛對 也是一個方式或者是把我們的年輕同學以前都直接就在那邊就把這個離稅的問題就解決沒錯 沒錯 我們也有提出這個建議那我們就請農業局跟次長次長跟台日寫因為他們都在講新縣你現在提供一個新的一個可能性出來那今天的質詢就有就有成績出來了 謝謝你喔感謝 感謝那鳥取縣也是一個我還沒聽到他們講這個東西現在我知道它是跟哪一個我們台灣哪個縣"},{"start":272.571,"end":281.422,"text":"台灣的台中我們也把他搶下來非常好 謝謝次長跟台學協接下來次長我們問一下肥料供應的部分"},{"start":283.157,"end":311.112,"text":"市長昨天農糧署跟我們說今年三月的戰爭風險提高之後原物料的供應跟庫存的頻率現在從每個月的檢視提高到每週來檢視目前尿素應該可以支撐到半年左右到年底應該是無雨但是我們擔心的是除了庫存之外就是擔心恐慌造成的搶購物價可能就被哄抬現在有沒有掌握到這樣子的狀況"},{"start":312.322,"end":337.401,"text":"有 謝謝委員關心因為其實在肥料的原物料這塊其實我們都一直有在盤點那也就像委員說的至少在半年內一直到年底這個原料是沒問題啦這供應是夠的那對於我們國內肥料供應最大宗的就是台肥那我們也跟台肥這邊有取得共識就是說對於第一線農民需要使用的這些肥料我們就是不漲價那吸收當然由台肥跟政府這邊來協助這個差價的協助因為"},{"start":339.122,"end":353.284,"text":"在第一線的農民這邊如果肥料有漲價對他們來講是非常大的一個負擔所以我們跟台肥有這樣子的協調所以目前台肥的話會吸收這個我們跟台肥就是政府跟台肥會來處理這個肥料的差價的這塊"},{"start":353.956,"end":377.919,"text":"那另外我想知道說現行的肥料補出大概就是會落在農系跟複合肥料嘛那如果是特殊肥料液態肥料的價格持續偏高那農民可能會考量到說轉向複合肥料那這樣子會不會集中到單一皮相對我們來講其實就是說化學肥料當然有它的效果因為會比較快那也有農民使用上的這個習慣性但是其實我們手頭上其實還有一些有機肥料"},{"start":378.419,"end":395.455,"text":"所以我們覺得其實雙邊這樣的調整其實希望能夠在第一線把農民所需要的這些資材能夠控制在非常穩定的狀況好 因為哪些可以透過農會系統處理哪些可以透過市場機制處理這個部分再麻煩透過哪些是納入這個輔助的範圍的品項"},{"start":400.299,"end":423.434,"text":"這個價格啊 替代肥腫啊 技術輔導這個部分可能就是要跟我們 因為其實第一線接觸的都是農會來跟他們再來討論一下 因為我是擔心這個狀況啦我是希望說可以善用我們的區域糧肥技術來去強化我們的替代施肥啦還有這個堆肥利用這個部分那 部長 這個可能 這個也跟部長有一點關係了 對"},{"start":429.281,"end":450.709,"text":"部長你看這個外交很重要耶外交它跟農業也是直接相關喔所以人人都是外交官部部都是外交部每一個部門也要麻煩外交部幫我們連接起來今天就聽到一個我們未來的離稅從過去我們習以為常的薪稅那個 抱歉 薪卸然後甚至可以到鳥取現我覺得這個都是很好的一個"},{"start":452.486,"end":468.935,"text":"那再麻煩部長來去幫我們協助一下跟農業這個結合在一起是 報告委員因為農業部有跟我們這個協商我們也在住的代表處也設了我們農業組也為他們安排了一個"},{"start":470.806,"end":498.621,"text":"辦公的地方本來是喬不太出來後來我們農業部長我們跟他們好好的溝通是現在也可以共同辦公部長再麻煩鳥取縣跟嘉義這個是用離稅的部分來給他節約一下讓我們的這個同時就是我們剛才講的嘛因為現在是高齡化的狀況包含我們台灣跟日本都一樣那我們要他的離稅但是他沒有因為人口老化沒有辦法去採集的話那"},{"start":499.201,"end":525.239,"text":"怎麼樣來去把整合起來那就是外交部可以去發展的一個方向這個部分再麻煩部長好 我會來 其實我當台東市長的時候就建立了跟鳥取縣這個跟台東市的對 誰是我任內的好有時候持續在交流中我跟嘉義很適合好啊 那就麻煩部長再麻煩一下了這個離稅的部分我們很關心那再來就是台灣民運剛才講到的中東情勢因為這個遷移法動全身從肥料到這一個整體的"},{"start":527.06,"end":542.349,"text":"甚至我們肥料之後就是糧食嘛糧食有可能會出現的問題或者是在我們就講了能源的問題這個是非常嚴峻的那過去這兩個禮拜我已經在跟這個華盛頓郵報還有這個日經亞洲的國際媒體我就已經不斷的在跟他們提出來就是說我們希望"},{"start":543.269,"end":567.977,"text":"Pivot to Asia重返亞洲這個事情它必須還是在美方的優先順序裡面我不斷在強調也希望美方能夠聽到那包含昨天跟參議員們的對話我也一再的在強調這件事情因為對台灣來說美國在印太地方的存在它是最好的震懾力那我是希望說部長你們這邊透過外交管道"},{"start":569.236,"end":596.525,"text":"我相信共和黨民主黨他們各自有他們的不同的戰略觀但是絕大多數的智庫也好分析師也好都知道這一個世紀美國要面臨的挑戰者絕對不是中型國家像是伊朗或者是已經沒落的強權俄羅斯這個關根本都不是美國的在經濟層面軍事層面安全上面都不是美國的對手那如果美國在持續的分心或者是他的資源"},{"start":597.645,"end":625.247,"text":"再稀釋的話那可能他們就有辦法在印太突破那過去中國這一年來你就看到說英國啦這個加拿大等等不斷的來去訪問中國就是這個狀況在外交上面他們也開始出現了他們內部上面的一些問題美國跟這些國家所以我們更要重視美國在印太地區的存在那這個存在我們很擔心就是沒有人再把這個管道再透過這個管道再去強調這件事情"},{"start":627.108,"end":643.739,"text":"因為每一個佈置在部署在印太的軍事資源就少一個部署在印太的資源這我一直在強調的我們還是希望部長可不可以簡單來回覆一下有沒有這個有沒有方向怎麼樣來去跟美方來去談這件事情"},{"start":644.836,"end":670.1,"text":"那報告委員 因為川普總統是第二任那在第二任他的政策也都很明朗那在安全上當然就是NDS跟這個NSS這兩個主要的國防跟安全的報告就奠定了我想印太還是美國最重要的我想一個區域那印太司令部"},{"start":670.6,"end":687.328,"text":"我想跟整個第一島鏈還有周邊國家的關係我想這個台灣當然沒有在集體安全的組織裡面我們跟美國只有台灣關係法六項保證可是跟其他國家的鏈結是有很多的小多邊在進行這也是我也很關心"},{"start":688.268,"end":704.974,"text":"因為我覺得大的政策方向那當然也反映在這個包括現在軍售軍購的重視上面那只是說要責任分攤那在這個完之上呢我們是覺得經濟跟安全已經密切相關所以我想川普總統透過關稅投資還有供應鏈重組是有把"},{"start":708.715,"end":732.196,"text":"台灣編織進來它的再工業化這個整個戰略裡面所以我是覺得我們先前也許有一些人會擔心或不確定性很高但現在已經比較明朗那我們應該做些什麼就是根據這個大的國家的戰略我們就是來操之在己的部分我們就全力以赴那其他的國家的關係我們就做好這個一起來協調 推動"},{"start":733.737,"end":746.975,"text":"我覺得講得很好 但是我覺得還是希望傳達我們的擔憂就是希望他們盡量的 盡速的重返印太就是我們來講是我們的最大國家利益嘛所以這個部分還是希望他們能轉達希望你們轉達一下謝謝好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"17322","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17322","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcbbd6dedb4516fb0faf9b1f37204a89c67a9d5466ed3f81408437a3be8cc1c2305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林沛祥等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林德福等31人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員涂權吉等23人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員許宇甄等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員黃健豪等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員羅智強等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員游顥等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員賴士葆等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員羅明才等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法繼承編施行法增訂第十二條條文草案」案。\n【4月1日及2日兩天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-04-01","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-04-01T08:36:15+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:12:00+08:00","duration":12945,"影片長度":"03:35:45","委員發言時間":"08:36:15 - 12:12:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-5-36-5"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1472.4422187500002,"end":1476.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1477.9097187500001,"end":1485.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1486.29659375,"end":1541.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1543.0472187500002,"end":1547.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1547.7890937500001,"end":1557.4078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1558.5384687500002,"end":1559.8040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1560.68159375,"end":1561.7447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1562.67284375,"end":1563.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1564.3265937500003,"end":1565.5415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1566.06471875,"end":1568.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1568.8997187500001,"end":1571.7853437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1572.35909375,"end":1586.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1589.4534687500002,"end":1592.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1592.6934687500002,"end":1604.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1604.6915937500003,"end":1610.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1610.9353437500001,"end":1611.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1612.2178437500002,"end":1612.8253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1613.87159375,"end":1614.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1620.7228437500003,"end":1621.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1623.00096875,"end":1626.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1626.81471875,"end":1627.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1627.2872187500002,"end":1629.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1629.7847187500001,"end":1631.6240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1632.0965937500002,"end":1636.3153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1637.2265937500001,"end":1639.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1640.2640937500003,"end":1643.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1644.4828437500003,"end":1646.5922187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1646.8622187500002,"end":1650.9628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1651.3678437500002,"end":1654.4222187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1654.5740937500002,"end":1656.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1656.8184687500002,"end":1673.7440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1674.3853437500002,"end":1680.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1681.3209687500002,"end":1686.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1687.5984687500002,"end":1697.5040937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1697.9259687500003,"end":1726.5965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1727.47409375,"end":1740.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1741.2947187500001,"end":1742.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1743.0497187500002,"end":1769.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1769.7290937500002,"end":1780.8497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1781.22096875,"end":1782.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1783.0772187500002,"end":1793.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1794.1978437500002,"end":1837.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1837.7184687500003,"end":1852.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1854.4247187500002,"end":1859.8753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1865.3765937500002,"end":1868.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1871.9915937500002,"end":1965.9515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1967.0653437500002,"end":1978.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1979.21534375,"end":2007.5990937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2008.59471875,"end":2054.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2065.34534375,"end":2067.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2078.87909375,"end":2080.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2081.37659375,"end":2097.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2098.0997187500006,"end":2106.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2107.65096875,"end":2115.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2115.54846875,"end":2141.3503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2141.94096875,"end":2148.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2149.3828437500006,"end":2170.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2170.91534375,"end":2185.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2186.4403437500005,"end":2191.0134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2191.28346875,"end":2212.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2213.6090937500003,"end":2216.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2217.3047187500006,"end":2233.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2234.21346875,"end":2235.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2235.8503437500003,"end":2250.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2250.78471875,"end":2255.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2257.0115937500004,"end":2261.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2271.13596875,"end":2275.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2275.8103437500004,"end":2276.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2277.17721875,"end":2286.2559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2286.5934687500003,"end":2320.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2321.11971875,"end":2337.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2338.39971875,"end":2350.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2350.65096875,"end":2357.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2357.50221875,"end":2376.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2376.4022187500004,"end":2380.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2381.3972187500003,"end":2383.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2383.67534375,"end":2390.7459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2391.2353437500005,"end":2393.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2394.01971875,"end":2397.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2397.83346875,"end":2408.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2408.92034375,"end":2411.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2411.7890937500006,"end":2424.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2424.29346875,"end":2433.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2434.41846875,"end":2443.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2446.87221875,"end":2449.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2452.0528437500006,"end":2452.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2456.45721875,"end":2456.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2457.5709687500002,"end":2457.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2460.5409687500005,"end":2470.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2470.6490937500002,"end":2474.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2474.90159375,"end":2494.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2494.98284375,"end":2500.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2500.34909375,"end":2505.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2506.1709687500006,"end":2520.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2520.71721875,"end":2541.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2542.11471875,"end":2552.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2553.26909375,"end":2570.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2570.90346875,"end":2574.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2575.8309687500005,"end":2579.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2584.5722187500005,"end":2596.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2596.4353437500004,"end":2606.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2606.84721875,"end":2609.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2609.61471875,"end":2774.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2774.61846875,"end":2775.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2775.46221875,"end":2775.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2776.18784375,"end":2776.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2776.23846875,"end":2780.5584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2792.9784687500005,"end":2813.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2814.0215937500006,"end":2818.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2818.9997187500003,"end":2830.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2831.4365937500006,"end":2840.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2841.4434687500006,"end":2845.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2845.9659687500007,"end":2852.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2853.7284687500005,"end":2856.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2857.0528437500006,"end":2859.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2859.6347187500005,"end":2880.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2880.94784375,"end":2891.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2894.0428437500004,"end":2895.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2895.4434687500006,"end":2904.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2904.80909375,"end":2906.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2909.02784375,"end":2916.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2916.31784375,"end":2919.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2919.4734687500004,"end":2946.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2946.87846875,"end":2949.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2949.8653437500006,"end":2964.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2964.4959687500004,"end":2973.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2973.9122187500006,"end":2977.1690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2978.14784375,"end":3037.4972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3038.12159375,"end":3039.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3040.4503437500007,"end":3044.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3044.85471875,"end":3047.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3048.1453437500004,"end":3048.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3049.6472187500003,"end":3057.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3058.11846875,"end":3059.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3059.6540937500004,"end":3064.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3064.34534375,"end":3065.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3065.84721875,"end":3066.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3068.05784375,"end":3069.6778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3069.88034375,"end":3070.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3071.0615937500006,"end":3072.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3072.2597187500005,"end":3083.0597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3085.30409375,"end":3094.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3104.84534375,"end":3243.9122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3246.0553437500002,"end":3249.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3262.6603437500007,"end":3289.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3289.49159375,"end":3392.5303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3393.4922187500006,"end":3395.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3396.6647187500002,"end":3405.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3405.57471875,"end":3410.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3410.50221875,"end":3419.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3421.9940937500005,"end":3422.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3422.0447187500004,"end":3422.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3422.19659375,"end":3422.2303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3422.38221875,"end":3423.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3423.64784375,"end":3425.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3426.73596875,"end":3434.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3435.29159375,"end":3458.9334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3459.57471875,"end":3470.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3470.8640937500004,"end":3604.2440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3606.5222187500003,"end":3611.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3612.78284375,"end":3635.6990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3636.0028437500005,"end":3641.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3646.44846875,"end":3646.9884687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3647.3259687500004,"end":3649.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3649.35096875,"end":3649.8065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3650.6503437500005,"end":3652.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3653.08034375,"end":3654.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3657.5353437500007,"end":3659.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3659.6784687500003,"end":3669.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3669.83721875,"end":3670.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3671.22096875,"end":3673.1447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3673.2628437500007,"end":3680.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3680.9072187500005,"end":3693.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3693.69846875,"end":3695.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3695.3522187500002,"end":3695.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3695.9259687500007,"end":3724.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3724.6472187500003,"end":3727.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3728.0222187500003,"end":3733.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3734.3165937500007,"end":3734.8397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3734.8397187500004,"end":3739.9022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3740.3240937500004,"end":3747.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3747.7490937500006,"end":3754.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3754.51596875,"end":3756.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3757.1990937500004,"end":3761.0128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3761.3672187500006,"end":3764.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3764.1515937500008,"end":3766.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3766.3115937500006,"end":3767.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3767.84721875,"end":3768.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3769.3322187500007,"end":3770.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3770.73284375,"end":3794.9147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3795.4209687500006,"end":3799.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3800.50034375,"end":3801.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3801.8672187500006,"end":3802.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3802.84596875,"end":3808.8028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3809.1572187500005,"end":3810.9122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3811.53659375,"end":3817.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3818.16846875,"end":3819.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3819.9403437500005,"end":3834.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3834.5709687500002,"end":3849.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3850.0622187500003,"end":3864.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3864.7772187500004,"end":3865.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3865.9415937500007,"end":3875.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3875.77971875,"end":3893.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3894.27471875,"end":3906.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3906.45846875,"end":3906.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3906.62721875,"end":3906.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3906.76221875,"end":3949.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3913.79909375,"end":3914.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3940.4109687500004,"end":3940.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3950.02971875,"end":3992.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3992.9765937500006,"end":4019.0147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3994.4953437500008,"end":3995.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4012.8047187500006,"end":4012.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4012.9059687500003,"end":4012.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4012.9734687500004,"end":4013.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4015.4034687500007,"end":4015.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4019.4197187500004,"end":4027.7559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4028.1778437500006,"end":4029.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4030.0340937500005,"end":4035.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4036.1934687500006,"end":4039.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4039.3322187500007,"end":4041.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4041.94784375,"end":4044.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4044.64784375,"end":4046.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4046.99346875,"end":4096.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4097.55096875,"end":4102.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4102.74846875,"end":4107.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4108.165343750001,"end":4124.331593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4124.483468750001,"end":4124.753468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4124.753468749999,"end":4124.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4124.854718750001,"end":4145.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4124.87159375,"end":4125.597218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4145.003468749999,"end":4145.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4145.69534375,"end":4149.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4150.015343749999,"end":4155.314093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4155.651593750001,"end":4164.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4165.42221875,"end":4171.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4173.70784375,"end":4181.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4175.513468749999,"end":4176.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4179.090968750001,"end":4180.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4180.60971875,"end":4180.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4181.014718750001,"end":4189.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4190.1103437500005,"end":4199.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4200.01596875,"end":4201.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4201.36596875,"end":4209.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4210.630343750001,"end":4211.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4212.030968749999,"end":4242.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4244.0428437499995,"end":4246.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4246.6415937500005,"end":4249.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4250.2528437500005,"end":4250.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4250.944718750001,"end":4251.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4252.0584687499995,"end":4272.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4272.932843750001,"end":4273.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4274.147843750001,"end":4281.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4281.25221875,"end":4283.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4283.44596875,"end":4292.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4294.14471875,"end":4300.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4300.47284375,"end":4307.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4307.999093750001,"end":4311.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4312.4540937500005,"end":4320.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4320.030968749999,"end":4333.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4331.8603437500005,"end":4332.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4333.41284375,"end":4350.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4333.46346875,"end":4333.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4333.5478437500005,"end":4334.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4334.290343750001,"end":4334.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4334.475968750001,"end":4334.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4334.577218750001,"end":4334.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4338.272843750001,"end":4338.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4350.321593750001,"end":4358.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4358.843468749999,"end":4369.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4366.79159375,"end":4369.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4369.87971875,"end":4372.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4372.917218750001,"end":4373.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4373.69346875,"end":4374.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4378.41846875,"end":4379.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4381.439093749999,"end":4381.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4381.962218750001,"end":4382.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4385.8603437500005,"end":4386.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4386.33284375,"end":4418.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4417.399718750001,"end":4423.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4421.669093750001,"end":4421.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4423.204718749999,"end":4485.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4426.765343749999,"end":4426.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4485.3553437499995,"end":4506.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4505.284718749999,"end":4505.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4506.48284375,"end":4511.376593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4509.8240937499995,"end":4520.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4520.13471875,"end":4553.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4554.458468750001,"end":4561.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4562.659718749999,"end":4569.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4570.23659375,"end":4599.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4599.24471875,"end":4608.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4607.429093750001,"end":4610.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4608.81284375,"end":4616.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4616.96346875,"end":4619.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4619.984093749999,"end":4662.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4659.80909375,"end":4660.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4660.905968749999,"end":4666.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4665.276593750001,"end":4670.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4670.1365937499995,"end":4675.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4674.794093750001,"end":4683.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4676.802218750001,"end":4678.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4681.915343750001,"end":4681.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4681.9490937499995,"end":4682.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4682.96159375,"end":4682.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4682.97846875,"end":4683.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4683.265343749999,"end":4683.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4684.3622187500005,"end":4690.673468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4690.97721875,"end":4725.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4725.7059687500005,"end":4729.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4729.2665937500005,"end":4733.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4733.434718750001,"end":4735.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4737.2822187500005,"end":4753.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4744.60596875,"end":4744.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4744.622843749999,"end":4745.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4752.52034375,"end":4759.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4760.36721875,"end":4767.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4766.526593750001,"end":4772.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4771.79159375,"end":4779.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4778.524718750001,"end":4788.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4783.857218749999,"end":4784.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4788.835343750001,"end":4789.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4789.03784375,"end":4789.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4789.74659375,"end":4793.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4793.948468750001,"end":4795.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4796.378468750001,"end":4798.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4796.54721875,"end":4796.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4798.6903437500005,"end":4807.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4800.10784375,"end":4800.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4806.67221875,"end":4806.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4806.72284375,"end":4807.296593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4807.634093750001,"end":4807.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4807.9715937500005,"end":4808.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4810.485968749999,"end":4810.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4810.5028437500005,"end":4810.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4810.51971875,"end":4811.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4811.92034375,"end":4816.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4825.99409375,"end":4828.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4833.99284375,"end":4836.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4840.69221875,"end":4844.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4841.55284375,"end":4841.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4841.97471875,"end":4842.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4846.93596875,"end":4847.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4849.3153437500005,"end":4853.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4854.124718749999,"end":4857.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4857.76971875,"end":4896.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4896.39659375,"end":4919.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4919.937218749999,"end":4925.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4925.64096875,"end":4938.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4939.208468750001,"end":4960.251593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4960.50471875,"end":4993.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4994.11971875,"end":5012.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4996.110968749999,"end":4996.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4999.33409375,"end":4999.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5006.30346875,"end":5006.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5006.624093750001,"end":5006.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5013.05346875,"end":5020.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5015.58471875,"end":5016.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5020.545968750001,"end":5033.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5034.0965937500005,"end":5041.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5042.095343749999,"end":5057.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5057.97471875,"end":5061.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5061.5184687500005,"end":5064.454718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5065.062218749999,"end":5073.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5072.200343750001,"end":5076.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5077.70159375,"end":5080.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5081.41409375,"end":5087.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5082.3759687500005,"end":5082.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5082.39284375,"end":5082.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5082.71346875,"end":5082.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5087.7928437499995,"end":5104.296593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5090.17221875,"end":5092.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5094.0028437500005,"end":5095.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5098.47471875,"end":5101.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5102.609093749999,"end":5111.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5111.73846875,"end":5154.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5154.179093750001,"end":5157.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5157.01409375,"end":5225.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5225.91471875,"end":5229.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5227.247843749999,"end":5227.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5229.57659375,"end":5231.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5231.87159375,"end":5232.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5232.61409375,"end":5233.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5233.45784375,"end":5233.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5233.50846875,"end":5233.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5233.575968749999,"end":5247.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5239.46534375,"end":5239.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5240.477843750001,"end":5240.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5240.5115937499995,"end":5240.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5243.937218749999,"end":5244.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5247.514718750001,"end":5248.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5247.5653437500005,"end":5250.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5249.185343749999,"end":5250.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5250.231593750001,"end":5250.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5250.974093750001,"end":5251.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5251.817843750001,"end":5259.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5257.92659375,"end":5258.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5260.019093750001,"end":5308.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5308.585343750001,"end":5309.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5311.42034375,"end":5313.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5313.968468749999,"end":5314.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5318.760968750001,"end":5319.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5319.030968749999,"end":5319.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5325.1903437500005,"end":5327.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5332.682843750001,"end":5339.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5340.360968749999,"end":5343.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5343.61784375,"end":5346.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5347.51596875,"end":5349.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5348.849093750001,"end":5349.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5349.034718750001,"end":5349.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5350.485968749999,"end":5495.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5495.560343749999,"end":5495.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5496.06659375,"end":5527.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5528.17971875,"end":5553.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5554.08284375,"end":5560.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5560.022843750001,"end":5566.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5560.124093750001,"end":5560.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5565.70971875,"end":5566.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5566.97534375,"end":5599.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5600.0165937500005,"end":5612.048468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5609.145968750001,"end":5629.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5626.155968749999,"end":5626.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5629.93596875,"end":5630.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5631.43784375,"end":5650.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5651.198468750001,"end":5791.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5790.602843750001,"end":5833.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5835.6590937500005,"end":5872.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5871.839093750001,"end":5875.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5874.555968750001,"end":5887.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5886.503468750001,"end":5886.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5887.026593750001,"end":6035.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5891.515343749999,"end":5891.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5891.97096875,"end":5894.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6037.264718750001,"end":6039.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6041.247218750001,"end":6080.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6081.00471875,"end":6089.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6087.90659375,"end":6103.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6090.6572187500005,"end":6091.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6091.349093750001,"end":6091.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6098.87534375,"end":6099.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6121.55534375,"end":6123.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6123.647843750001,"end":6125.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6126.38159375,"end":6127.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6136.304093750001,"end":6136.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6137.620343750001,"end":6139.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6139.577843749999,"end":6139.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6140.03346875,"end":6145.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6145.60221875,"end":6145.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6145.720343750001,"end":6145.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6145.8553437499995,"end":6224.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6225.91034375,"end":6254.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6231.968468749999,"end":6232.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6232.00221875,"end":6232.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6232.305968750001,"end":6232.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6254.81721875,"end":6260.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6260.6053437499995,"end":6261.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6262.917218750001,"end":6265.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6265.27971875,"end":6265.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6265.41471875,"end":6340.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6265.482218749999,"end":6265.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6340.74471875,"end":6347.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6348.11909375,"end":6350.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6350.059718750001,"end":6379.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6379.13534375,"end":6379.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6379.169093750001,"end":6379.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6379.18596875,"end":6379.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6380.78909375,"end":6383.657843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6383.72534375,"end":6394.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6395.892218750001,"end":6407.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6407.468468749999,"end":6464.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6465.417218750001,"end":6473.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6474.360968750001,"end":6476.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6476.63909375,"end":6480.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6493.46346875,"end":6494.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6495.370343750001,"end":6496.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6499.0322187500005,"end":6499.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6500.095343750001,"end":6504.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6505.107218749999,"end":6505.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6506.25471875,"end":6508.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6508.904093749999,"end":6516.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6516.497843749999,"end":6521.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6522.555968750001,"end":6526.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6522.57284375,"end":6522.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6522.67409375,"end":6522.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6527.39909375,"end":6534.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6534.48659375,"end":6539.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6539.852843750001,"end":6554.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6554.382218750001,"end":6573.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6573.467843750001,"end":6573.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6574.19346875,"end":6578.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6578.49659375,"end":6579.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6579.76221875,"end":6589.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6589.482218749999,"end":6597.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6599.03346875,"end":6603.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6603.606593750001,"end":6606.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6606.981593750001,"end":6608.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6608.92221875,"end":6615.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6615.48659375,"end":6616.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6616.904093749999,"end":6620.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6620.31284375,"end":6622.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6622.79346875,"end":6640.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6641.001593750001,"end":6642.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6643.17846875,"end":6644.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6645.220343750001,"end":6646.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6647.36346875,"end":6650.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6650.60346875,"end":6652.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6653.151593750001,"end":6657.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6657.94409375,"end":6662.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6662.34846875,"end":6671.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6672.135968750001,"end":6676.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6677.02971875,"end":6677.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6677.08034375,"end":6690.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6687.34034375,"end":6688.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6690.732218749999,"end":6690.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6690.86721875,"end":6695.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6695.92971875,"end":6698.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6699.47346875,"end":6713.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6715.200968749999,"end":6729.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6730.017218750001,"end":6733.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6734.64096875,"end":6741.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6742.3865937499995,"end":6751.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6751.78596875,"end":6752.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6753.169718749999,"end":6755.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6755.7684687500005,"end":6756.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6757.1522187499995,"end":6763.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6764.374718749999,"end":6770.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6770.82096875,"end":6782.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6782.565968750001,"end":6789.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6789.7040937500005,"end":6792.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6792.53909375,"end":6794.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6795.01971875,"end":6795.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6796.2684687500005,"end":6798.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6799.204718750001,"end":6801.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6802.7822187500005,"end":6803.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6804.4022187499995,"end":6823.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6823.31909375,"end":6823.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6823.538468750001,"end":6831.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6832.296593749999,"end":6837.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6837.561593750001,"end":6843.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6843.653468750001,"end":6849.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6850.42034375,"end":6853.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6854.335343750001,"end":6862.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6863.1103437500005,"end":6867.126593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6867.16034375,"end":6869.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6869.472218750001,"end":6875.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6875.26034375,"end":6875.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6875.3447187500005,"end":6876.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6876.4247187500005,"end":6881.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6881.655968749999,"end":6887.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6887.59596875,"end":6892.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6893.519093750001,"end":6893.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6893.856593750001,"end":6896.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6896.77596875,"end":6899.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6899.67846875,"end":6902.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6903.5428437499995,"end":6915.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6908.13284375,"end":6909.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6914.899718750001,"end":6919.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6915.49034375,"end":6917.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6920.02971875,"end":6923.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6924.24846875,"end":6927.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6927.319718750001,"end":6928.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6929.02409375,"end":6941.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6940.56659375,"end":6940.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6941.25846875,"end":6941.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6941.3934687500005,"end":6952.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6953.35784375,"end":6956.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6956.91846875,"end":6958.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6958.60596875,"end":6959.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6960.15846875,"end":6964.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6964.64721875,"end":6991.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6991.579718750001,"end":6995.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6995.477843750001,"end":6996.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6996.70971875,"end":7006.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7005.58596875,"end":7006.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7006.497218750001,"end":7018.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7013.68596875,"end":7015.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7018.7147187499995,"end":7023.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7018.731593750001,"end":7020.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7023.220343750001,"end":7025.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7025.430968750001,"end":7033.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7026.325343750001,"end":7026.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7033.83471875,"end":7034.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7035.134093750001,"end":7037.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7038.1209687499995,"end":7040.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7041.0740937499995,"end":7048.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7048.904093749999,"end":7049.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7050.4228437500005,"end":7050.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7051.28346875,"end":7053.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7053.47721875,"end":7055.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7055.991593750001,"end":7058.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7058.472218750001,"end":7059.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7060.5478437500005,"end":7062.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7062.6572187500005,"end":7070.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7065.30659375,"end":7066.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7070.571593750001,"end":7072.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7071.077843750001,"end":7072.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7072.24221875,"end":7073.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7073.102843750001,"end":7077.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7076.562218750001,"end":7076.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7077.169718749999,"end":7081.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7081.962218750001,"end":7084.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7082.333468750001,"end":7083.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7083.278468750001,"end":7094.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7095.24284375,"end":7095.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7096.03596875,"end":7098.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7098.14534375,"end":7099.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7098.702218750001,"end":7104.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7105.31721875,"end":7111.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7112.3709687499995,"end":7114.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7115.189093750001,"end":7116.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7117.61909375,"end":7124.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7125.280343750001,"end":7126.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7126.61346875,"end":7129.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7130.27534375,"end":7135.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7135.304093750001,"end":7139.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7136.63721875,"end":7136.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7139.3709687499995,"end":7146.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7146.57659375,"end":7149.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7146.66096875,"end":7146.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7149.833468750001,"end":7154.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7149.85034375,"end":7150.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7154.5584687499995,"end":7160.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7154.67659375,"end":7154.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7154.72721875,"end":7155.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7155.16596875,"end":7155.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7155.4697187500005,"end":7155.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7157.03909375,"end":7157.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7160.92034375,"end":7162.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7162.0340937500005,"end":7173.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7170.38721875,"end":7170.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7174.33596875,"end":7177.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7178.284718750001,"end":7181.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7181.54159375,"end":7184.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7185.05159375,"end":7186.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7186.94159375,"end":7195.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7190.35034375,"end":7190.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7190.569718750001,"end":7190.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7190.63721875,"end":7190.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7190.7215937500005,"end":7190.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7196.93159375,"end":7198.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7198.61909375,"end":7206.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7206.651593750001,"end":7214.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7215.05534375,"end":7222.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7226.057843750001,"end":7227.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7228.47096875,"end":7229.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7231.60971875,"end":7232.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7232.45346875,"end":7306.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7306.9228437500005,"end":7312.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7312.964093750001,"end":7353.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7354.05471875,"end":7369.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7369.56284375,"end":7375.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7375.907843750001,"end":7430.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7431.05534375,"end":7441.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7441.93971875,"end":7453.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7453.65096875,"end":7466.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7468.23096875,"end":7487.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7487.78909375,"end":7503.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7504.66409375,"end":7531.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7531.51221875,"end":7535.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7536.54096875,"end":7554.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7554.512843750001,"end":7557.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7557.7528437500005,"end":7559.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7560.53721875,"end":7635.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7635.512843750001,"end":7639.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7640.0184687500005,"end":7712.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7712.36159375,"end":7729.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7713.779093749999,"end":7714.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7716.90096875,"end":7716.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7716.934718750001,"end":7717.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7717.27221875,"end":7717.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7728.47721875,"end":7732.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7730.68784375,"end":7734.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7734.19784375,"end":7738.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7735.311593750001,"end":7735.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7736.96534375,"end":7739.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7739.54721875,"end":7744.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7740.44159375,"end":7740.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7741.75784375,"end":7750.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7750.36409375,"end":7770.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7751.49471875,"end":7751.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7757.63721875,"end":7757.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7766.78346875,"end":7775.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7770.9178437499995,"end":7771.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7774.74846875,"end":7778.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7778.342843750001,"end":7778.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7778.59596875,"end":7787.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7778.612843750001,"end":7778.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7788.29909375,"end":7788.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7788.788468750001,"end":7789.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7789.919093750001,"end":7790.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7790.69534375,"end":7796.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7790.712218750001,"end":7790.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7796.34846875,"end":7796.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7798.03596875,"end":7808.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7809.66284375,"end":7810.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7816.83471875,"end":7820.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7820.142218750001,"end":7821.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7821.30659375,"end":7822.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7822.3865937499995,"end":7823.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7823.92221875,"end":7827.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7827.95534375,"end":7830.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7830.38534375,"end":7831.954718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7832.798468750001,"end":7842.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7842.889718750001,"end":7845.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7846.09596875,"end":7847.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7848.1884687500005,"end":7849.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7849.89284375,"end":7856.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7856.87909375,"end":7880.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7881.21284375,"end":7882.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7883.2040937500005,"end":7888.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7888.958468750001,"end":7910.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7910.4403437500005,"end":7917.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7917.66284375,"end":7932.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7932.968468750001,"end":7943.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7943.97096875,"end":7945.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7945.89471875,"end":7947.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7947.919718749999,"end":7952.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7952.475968750001,"end":7954.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7955.378468750001,"end":7957.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7957.94346875,"end":7963.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7963.765343750001,"end":7969.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7969.452218750001,"end":7970.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7972.50659375,"end":7979.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7980.91034375,"end":7984.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7984.31909375,"end":7985.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7986.90096875,"end":8002.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8002.122218750001,"end":8008.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8008.669718749999,"end":8009.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8010.28971875,"end":8011.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8012.34846875,"end":8012.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8013.546593750001,"end":8014.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8015.03159375,"end":8015.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8016.19596875,"end":8020.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8021.03909375,"end":8022.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8022.827843750001,"end":8024.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8025.07221875,"end":8027.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8027.620343750001,"end":8028.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8028.63284375,"end":8031.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8031.788468750001,"end":8039.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8040.39471875,"end":8041.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8041.94721875,"end":8043.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8043.90471875,"end":8049.169718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8049.28784375,"end":8049.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8049.7772187499995,"end":8051.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8052.24096875,"end":8053.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8053.75971875,"end":8055.919718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8056.864718750001,"end":8057.185343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8057.55659375,"end":8060.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8061.01596875,"end":8065.251593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8065.487843750001,"end":8069.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8070.38159375,"end":8071.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8072.03534375,"end":8072.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8072.659718750001,"end":8077.857218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8078.194718750001,"end":8081.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8082.1434687500005,"end":8083.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8084.53971875,"end":8089.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8089.51784375,"end":8091.357218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8091.559718750001,"end":8096.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8097.415343750001,"end":8098.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8099.74409375,"end":8100.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8101.161593750001,"end":8109.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8110.358468750001,"end":8111.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8111.624093750001,"end":8112.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8113.27784375,"end":8113.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8114.374718750001,"end":8134.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8134.23659375,"end":8134.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8135.147843750001,"end":8135.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8136.278468750001,"end":8137.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8138.3709687499995,"end":8145.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8145.795968750001,"end":8147.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8147.73659375,"end":8156.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8156.62971875,"end":8157.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8158.114718750001,"end":8159.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8159.515343750001,"end":8160.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8160.983468750001,"end":8161.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8162.046593750001,"end":8171.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8172.15471875,"end":8172.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8173.352843750001,"end":8186.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8187.15659375,"end":8191.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8192.52284375,"end":8194.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8194.66596875,"end":8197.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8198.074718750002,"end":8201.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8202.242843750002,"end":8206.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8207.659718750001,"end":8209.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8209.90409375,"end":8211.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8212.23284375,"end":8215.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8215.60784375,"end":8217.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8218.08846875,"end":8224.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8225.547218750002,"end":8225.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8226.45846875,"end":8233.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8233.90034375,"end":8234.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8234.49096875,"end":8236.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8236.988468750002,"end":8245.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8245.847843750002,"end":8247.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8247.72096875,"end":8248.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8250.167843750001,"end":8252.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8252.918468750002,"end":8253.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8253.77909375,"end":8258.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8258.90909375,"end":8259.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8260.02284375,"end":8261.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8261.44034375,"end":8269.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8270.19846875,"end":8272.493468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8272.577843750001,"end":8282.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8283.023468750001,"end":8286.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8286.465968750003,"end":8291.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8292.97971875,"end":8294.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8294.75159375,"end":8295.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8295.780968750001,"end":8347.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8347.739093750002,"end":8347.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8347.77284375,"end":8354.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8347.789718750002,"end":8348.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8355.180968750003,"end":8356.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8357.003468750001,"end":8361.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8361.69471875,"end":8363.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8363.48346875,"end":8376.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8377.01721875,"end":8389.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8389.487843750001,"end":8392.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8392.980968750002,"end":8393.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8393.301593750002,"end":8412.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8412.87659375,"end":8414.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8414.93534375,"end":8415.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8415.542843750001,"end":8423.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8423.86221875,"end":8426.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8426.84909375,"end":8429.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8430.308468750001,"end":8434.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8434.93221875,"end":8437.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8437.39596875,"end":8438.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8439.488468750002,"end":8440.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8440.399718750003,"end":8441.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8442.070343750001,"end":8445.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8445.293468750002,"end":8450.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8449.32659375,"end":8450.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8450.74409375,"end":8451.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8451.570968750002,"end":8451.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8451.58784375,"end":8451.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8451.63846875,"end":8456.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8451.65534375,"end":8452.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8453.02221875,"end":8453.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8456.65034375,"end":8458.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8456.70096875,"end":8459.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8460.278468750003,"end":8479.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8480.106593750003,"end":8482.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8482.92471875,"end":8495.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8494.29846875,"end":8495.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8497.082843750002,"end":8503.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9030.51846875,"end":9037.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9037.42034375,"end":9051.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9066.15846875,"end":9067.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9067.84596875,"end":9068.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9071.879093750002,"end":9074.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9071.91284375,"end":9072.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9076.097843750002,"end":9077.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9079.13534375,"end":9080.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9081.953468750002,"end":9084.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9084.855968750002,"end":9085.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9086.23971875,"end":9087.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9087.84284375,"end":9089.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9089.024093750002,"end":9090.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9090.812843750002,"end":9091.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9091.977218750002,"end":9092.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9092.230343750001,"end":9097.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9097.86659375,"end":9100.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9100.97159375,"end":9106.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9106.03409375,"end":9106.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9107.14784375,"end":9118.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9118.977218750002,"end":9123.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9124.27596875,"end":9130.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9130.60409375,"end":9134.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9135.227843750003,"end":9135.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9135.97034375,"end":9137.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9138.265343750001,"end":9142.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9143.378468750001,"end":9143.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9143.665343750003,"end":9145.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9145.62284375,"end":9149.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9149.031593750002,"end":9156.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9154.27971875,"end":9154.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9155.984093750001,"end":9159.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9160.33784375,"end":9171.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9171.812843750002,"end":9176.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9179.01846875,"end":9179.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9179.035343750002,"end":9182.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9181.58346875,"end":9182.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9183.06846875,"end":9187.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9187.270343750002,"end":9194.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9193.04159375,"end":9193.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9193.14284375,"end":9193.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9193.98659375,"end":9194.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9194.66159375,"end":9197.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9195.74159375,"end":9195.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9195.758468750002,"end":9195.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9195.809093750002,"end":9196.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9196.68659375,"end":9196.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9197.445968750002,"end":9204.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9204.769718750002,"end":9205.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9205.360343750002,"end":9206.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9206.96346875,"end":9207.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9207.26721875,"end":9208.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9208.296593750001,"end":9210.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9208.33034375,"end":9210.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9210.574718750002,"end":9217.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9218.691593750002,"end":9223.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9223.011593750001,"end":9223.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9223.180343750002,"end":9223.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9223.72034375,"end":9224.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9223.905968750001,"end":9224.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9224.715968750003,"end":9226.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9227.601593750001,"end":9229.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9229.035968750002,"end":9229.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9229.59284375,"end":9229.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9229.79534375,"end":9229.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9229.84596875,"end":9236.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9236.96721875,"end":9237.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9238.199093750001,"end":9246.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9247.176593750002,"end":9255.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9247.46346875,"end":9247.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9247.78409375,"end":9247.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9257.41971875,"end":9262.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9263.562218750001,"end":9265.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9266.464718750001,"end":9271.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9271.25721875,"end":9271.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9271.39221875,"end":9272.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9272.23596875,"end":9276.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9276.977843750003,"end":9278.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9279.30659375,"end":9279.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9279.340343750002,"end":9279.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9279.88034375,"end":9279.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9279.89721875,"end":9280.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9279.930968750003,"end":9281.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9282.192218750002,"end":9283.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9283.94721875,"end":9285.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9285.465968750003,"end":9291.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9285.769718750002,"end":9286.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9292.23284375,"end":9293.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9293.954093750002,"end":9294.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9294.004718750002,"end":9294.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9294.02159375,"end":9295.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9294.98346875,"end":9299.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9299.809718750003,"end":9305.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9305.226593750001,"end":9310.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9310.339718750001,"end":9310.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9310.89659375,"end":9311.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9311.63909375,"end":9314.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9314.38971875,"end":9319.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9314.406593750002,"end":9315.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9319.317218750002,"end":9319.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9319.40159375,"end":9319.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9319.418468750002,"end":9320.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9320.059718750003,"end":9324.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9320.07659375,"end":9321.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9324.480968750002,"end":9326.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9328.159718750001,"end":9329.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9330.47159375,"end":9331.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9333.20534375,"end":9334.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9333.390968750002,"end":9333.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9334.707218750002,"end":9334.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9335.179718750001,"end":9336.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9335.31471875,"end":9339.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9339.887843750003,"end":9340.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9339.972218750001,"end":9339.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9340.02284375,"end":9340.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9340.20846875,"end":9340.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9340.27596875,"end":9340.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9340.96784375,"end":9341.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9341.035343750002,"end":9361.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9344.410343750002,"end":9345.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9350.92409375,"end":9352.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9361.437218750001,"end":9365.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9365.94284375,"end":9369.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9370.38096875,"end":9374.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9374.903468750003,"end":9376.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9377.957843750002,"end":9378.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9379.67909375,"end":9380.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9380.759093750003,"end":9392.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9392.95971875,"end":9393.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9393.95534375,"end":9395.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9397.465343750002,"end":9397.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9397.90409375,"end":9400.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9404.215343750002,"end":9408.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9409.78409375,"end":9412.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9413.51346875,"end":9415.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9415.032218750002,"end":9415.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9416.297843750002,"end":9421.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9422.035343750002,"end":9434.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9434.421593750001,"end":9436.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9434.472218750001,"end":9435.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9436.56471875,"end":9438.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9439.21409375,"end":9444.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9445.727843750003,"end":9447.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9449.524718750003,"end":9465.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9465.37034375,"end":9466.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9466.973468750002,"end":9467.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9468.47534375,"end":9469.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9470.53409375,"end":9474.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9475.27596875,"end":9476.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9476.406593750002,"end":9478.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9480.43971875,"end":9481.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9483.49409375,"end":9483.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9483.81471875,"end":9483.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9483.96659375,"end":9483.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9484.945343750001,"end":9486.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9486.784718750001,"end":9491.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9491.813468750002,"end":9492.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9492.859718750002,"end":9496.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9505.11096875,"end":9507.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9507.86159375,"end":9508.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9511.01721875,"end":9511.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9512.08034375,"end":9549.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9549.47534375,"end":9555.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9555.85409375,"end":9594.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9594.784718750001,"end":9605.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9604.926593750002,"end":9607.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9607.761593750001,"end":9612.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9612.030968750001,"end":9612.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9612.73971875,"end":9613.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9613.684718750003,"end":9622.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9622.898468750001,"end":9625.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9626.10471875,"end":9627.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9626.425343750001,"end":9626.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9627.10034375,"end":9627.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9627.15096875,"end":9653.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9627.235343750002,"end":9627.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9631.032218750002,"end":9631.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9648.312218750001,"end":9648.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9648.34596875,"end":9648.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9653.67846875,"end":9658.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9659.21346875,"end":9731.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9731.472218750001,"end":9731.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9731.65784375,"end":9753.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9753.96659375,"end":9766.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9766.825343750003,"end":9767.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9766.84221875,"end":9766.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9767.31471875,"end":9769.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9769.74471875,"end":9778.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9777.97971875,"end":9778.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9778.90784375,"end":9801.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9783.362843750001,"end":9784.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9788.50971875,"end":9788.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9788.52659375,"end":9788.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9801.824093750001,"end":9804.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9804.152843750002,"end":9809.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9804.203468750002,"end":9804.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9806.70096875,"end":9806.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9809.50221875,"end":9812.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9811.81409375,"end":9817.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9818.10846875,"end":9820.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9821.14596875,"end":9823.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9821.90534375,"end":9822.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9822.90096875,"end":9823.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9823.035968750002,"end":9823.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9824.200343750003,"end":9831.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9831.60846875,"end":9834.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9834.08909375,"end":9846.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9846.812843750002,"end":9865.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9865.965968750003,"end":9903.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9903.985343750002,"end":9907.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9908.11971875,"end":9917.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9917.805968750003,"end":9933.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9933.972218750001,"end":9939.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9940.266593750002,"end":9997.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9955.909718750001,"end":9956.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9956.770343750002,"end":9956.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9958.812218750001,"end":9959.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9980.597843750002,"end":9980.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9997.23659375,"end":10003.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10003.19346875,"end":10031.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10031.93159375,"end":10034.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10033.754093750002,"end":10054.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10037.770343750002,"end":10038.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10040.11596875,"end":10040.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10042.10721875,"end":10042.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10042.57971875,"end":10042.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10054.577843750001,"end":10064.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10065.124718750001,"end":10068.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10067.90909375,"end":10069.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10069.96784375,"end":10070.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10072.212218750003,"end":10077.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10086.25221875,"end":10092.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10092.934718750003,"end":10094.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10094.36909375,"end":10094.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10094.52096875,"end":10094.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10094.53784375,"end":10094.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10094.58846875,"end":10094.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10094.74034375,"end":10096.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10097.457218750002,"end":10097.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10097.929718750001,"end":10121.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10122.145343750002,"end":10167.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10168.29846875,"end":10185.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10169.715968750003,"end":10169.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10169.85096875,"end":10170.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10170.00284375,"end":10170.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10185.49409375,"end":10191.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10191.02909375,"end":10206.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10206.70596875,"end":10209.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10209.27096875,"end":10211.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10210.45221875,"end":10210.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10211.211593750002,"end":10220.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10216.86471875,"end":10217.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10218.282218750002,"end":10218.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10220.644718750002,"end":10234.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10224.660968750002,"end":10224.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10224.88034375,"end":10224.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10228.94721875,"end":10229.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10229.031593750002,"end":10229.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10229.183468750001,"end":10229.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10230.48284375,"end":10230.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10230.499718750001,"end":10231.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10234.95471875,"end":10242.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10241.77221875,"end":10274.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10274.594093750002,"end":10282.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10282.22159375,"end":10283.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10282.289093750001,"end":10289.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10289.984093750001,"end":10295.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10294.77659375,"end":10295.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10296.34596875,"end":10296.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10296.430343750002,"end":10303.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10304.817218750002,"end":10308.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10308.293468750002,"end":10316.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10308.344093750002,"end":10308.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10308.867218750001,"end":10310.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10316.781593750002,"end":10316.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10316.899718750003,"end":10320.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10317.895343750002,"end":10318.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10319.532218750002,"end":10325.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10325.910968750002,"end":10337.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10330.180343750002,"end":10330.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10338.027218750001,"end":10339.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10339.15784375,"end":10351.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10351.915343750003,"end":10355.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10355.324093750001,"end":10360.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10361.129093750002,"end":10370.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10370.410343750002,"end":10383.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10383.336593750002,"end":10391.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10388.88846875,"end":10391.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10391.06534375,"end":10391.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10391.16659375,"end":10397.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10396.785968750002,"end":10400.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10400.49846875,"end":10406.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10401.81471875,"end":10402.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10406.03346875,"end":10418.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10418.976593750001,"end":10436.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10437.03284375,"end":10439.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10439.445968750002,"end":10453.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10454.44784375,"end":10456.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10457.24909375,"end":10469.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10468.74096875,"end":10493.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10492.922843750002,"end":10494.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10494.222218750001,"end":10505.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10505.950343750003,"end":10522.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10522.89284375,"end":10527.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10528.10721875,"end":10536.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10535.582843750002,"end":10551.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10552.677218750003,"end":10553.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10552.710968750001,"end":10553.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10553.26784375,"end":10574.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10557.80721875,"end":10559.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10572.57284375,"end":10572.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10572.67409375,"end":10583.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10583.38971875,"end":10591.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10591.87784375,"end":10601.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10592.13096875,"end":10592.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10601.597843750002,"end":10601.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10601.699093750001,"end":10603.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10601.766593750002,"end":10613.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10608.06096875,"end":10608.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10613.849093750003,"end":10627.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10618.169093750003,"end":10619.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10619.164718750002,"end":10619.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10625.18909375,"end":10625.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10627.36596875,"end":10631.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10630.36971875,"end":10648.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10647.51471875,"end":10653.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10650.130343750003,"end":10650.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10652.62784375,"end":10679.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10681.028468750003,"end":10684.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10685.11221875,"end":10689.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10696.85721875,"end":10703.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10703.691593750002,"end":10703.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10705.277843750002,"end":10705.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10706.30721875,"end":10706.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10707.015968750002,"end":10730.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10731.062843750002,"end":10745.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10745.305343750002,"end":10760.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10761.117218750001,"end":10764.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10762.21409375,"end":10765.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10765.032218750002,"end":10776.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10766.06159375,"end":10767.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10769.04846875,"end":10770.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10776.152843750002,"end":10782.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10777.18221875,"end":10777.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10779.08909375,"end":10779.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10782.734093750001,"end":10788.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10783.223468750002,"end":10783.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10786.007843750001,"end":10786.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10788.285968750002,"end":10789.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10788.45471875,"end":10802.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10799.01846875,"end":10799.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10802.96721875,"end":10803.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10804.249718750001,"end":10811.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10810.40909375,"end":10868.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10868.47596875,"end":10874.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10875.462218750003,"end":10876.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10876.84596875,"end":10908.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10909.11096875,"end":10942.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10943.586593750002,"end":10944.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10944.88596875,"end":10953.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10954.082843750002,"end":10954.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10955.399093750002,"end":10964.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10964.612843750001,"end":10982.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10982.567843750003,"end":11013.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10998.49784375,"end":10998.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11005.88909375,"end":11005.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11005.905968750001,"end":11006.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11006.024093750002,"end":11006.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11007.171593750001,"end":11007.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11007.20534375,"end":11007.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11007.222218750001,"end":11007.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11012.925968750002,"end":11018.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11014.47846875,"end":11016.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11018.258468750002,"end":11018.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11018.27534375,"end":11018.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11018.882843750001,"end":11020.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11020.469093750002,"end":11033.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11034.188468750002,"end":11036.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11036.972843750002,"end":11037.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11037.15846875,"end":11037.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11037.495968750001,"end":11054.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11054.742218750001,"end":11055.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11055.02909375,"end":11078.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11078.637218750002,"end":11081.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11082.14721875,"end":11099.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11099.44409375,"end":11117.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11111.644718750002,"end":11111.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11118.597218750001,"end":11122.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11123.727218750002,"end":11125.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11126.24159375,"end":11143.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11143.909718750001,"end":11144.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11144.027843750002,"end":11154.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11154.86159375,"end":11157.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11158.38846875,"end":11158.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11159.012843750003,"end":11165.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11165.796593750001,"end":11170.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11170.58909375,"end":11186.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11186.907218750002,"end":11187.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11188.004093750002,"end":11189.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11190.07971875,"end":11191.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11191.446593750003,"end":11203.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11205.199718750002,"end":11206.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11206.836593750002,"end":11208.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11208.96284375,"end":11209.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11210.042843750001,"end":11213.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11213.97471875,"end":11214.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11214.49784375,"end":11214.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11215.122218750003,"end":11270.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11270.370968750001,"end":11325.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11325.687218750001,"end":11326.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11326.46346875,"end":11326.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11326.547843750002,"end":11331.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11331.79596875,"end":11338.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11338.95096875,"end":11352.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11353.24409375,"end":11362.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11364.48284375,"end":11374.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11374.87784375,"end":11376.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11377.223468750002,"end":11383.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11383.29846875,"end":11400.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11401.000343750002,"end":11440.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11441.21346875,"end":11444.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11445.21284375,"end":11464.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11464.99034375,"end":11476.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11477.055968750003,"end":11500.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11502.13221875,"end":11505.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11505.827843750001,"end":11509.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11509.962218750003,"end":11515.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11515.969718750002,"end":11517.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11518.112843750001,"end":11529.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11530.02659375,"end":11532.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11532.777218750001,"end":11538.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11538.261593750001,"end":11555.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11558.22471875,"end":11578.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11580.347843750002,"end":11581.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11582.59221875,"end":11586.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11587.45221875,"end":11591.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11592.81846875,"end":11594.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11595.41721875,"end":11609.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11609.676593750002,"end":11613.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11614.60409375,"end":11616.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11616.08909375,"end":11618.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11618.99159375,"end":11622.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11622.77159375,"end":11629.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11630.46659375,"end":11639.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11641.165343750003,"end":11653.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11653.72034375,"end":11673.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11674.66221875,"end":11676.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11677.98659375,"end":11715.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11715.550343750001,"end":11717.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11718.250343750002,"end":11725.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11726.02971875,"end":11731.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11732.98221875,"end":11733.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11733.437843750002,"end":11738.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11738.95596875,"end":11743.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11744.06909375,"end":11746.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11746.634093750003,"end":11757.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11758.26096875,"end":11763.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11763.542843750001,"end":11764.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11764.99409375,"end":11766.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11766.765968750002,"end":11769.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11769.90471875,"end":11772.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11772.58784375,"end":11773.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11774.005343750003,"end":11779.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11779.70909375,"end":11780.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11781.312218750001,"end":11783.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11783.99534375,"end":11792.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11792.63534375,"end":11797.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11797.79909375,"end":11807.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11808.61596875,"end":11818.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11819.09534375,"end":11820.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11821.17096875,"end":11825.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11826.098468750002,"end":11827.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11827.48221875,"end":11834.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11835.227843750003,"end":11856.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11857.03034375,"end":11857.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11857.18221875,"end":11861.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11861.890343750001,"end":11862.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11862.852218750002,"end":11863.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11863.999718750001,"end":11870.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11870.766593750002,"end":11871.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11872.25159375,"end":11875.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11875.89659375,"end":11877.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11877.11159375,"end":11877.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11877.837218750003,"end":11890.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11891.18534375,"end":11897.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11897.53034375,"end":11900.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11900.88846875,"end":11901.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11901.715343750002,"end":11909.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11910.945968750002,"end":11911.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11912.24534375,"end":11914.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11914.844093750002,"end":11916.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11916.852218750002,"end":11917.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11918.269718750002,"end":11920.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11921.121593750002,"end":11922.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11923.83846875,"end":11925.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11926.082843750002,"end":11931.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11931.85409375,"end":11933.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11933.879093750002,"end":11935.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11935.836593750002,"end":11937.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11938.45221875,"end":11941.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11941.87784375,"end":11942.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11942.637218750002,"end":11958.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11958.60096875,"end":11959.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11959.96784375,"end":11961.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11962.00971875,"end":11964.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11964.827843750001,"end":11966.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11966.61659375,"end":11970.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11971.375343750002,"end":11972.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11973.29909375,"end":11979.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11979.542843750001,"end":11994.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11994.527843750002,"end":11997.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11998.206593750001,"end":12001.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12001.969718750002,"end":12004.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12004.804718750001,"end":12005.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12005.918468750002,"end":12011.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12011.53784375,"end":12011.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12012.617843750002,"end":12013.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12014.06909375,"end":12021.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12021.91596875,"end":12024.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12024.784718750001,"end":12028.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12028.98659375,"end":12030.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12030.387218750002,"end":12034.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12036.42846875,"end":12044.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12044.579093750002,"end":12085.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12086.074718750002,"end":12086.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12086.88471875,"end":12145.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12145.305968750003,"end":12152.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12153.625343750002,"end":12155.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12156.207218750002,"end":12163.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12164.914718750002,"end":12223.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12224.601593750001,"end":12235.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12235.688468750002,"end":12261.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12263.886593750001,"end":12267.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12268.949093750001,"end":12325.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12325.98659375,"end":12355.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12355.703468750002,"end":12359.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12359.989718750003,"end":12366.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12366.97596875,"end":12378.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12379.34534375,"end":12382.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12382.703468750002,"end":12420.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12420.43596875,"end":12429.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12430.577843750001,"end":12446.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12445.394093750001,"end":12445.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12447.01409375,"end":12475.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12475.33034375,"end":12487.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12488.67846875,"end":12516.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12516.72471875,"end":12532.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12532.92471875,"end":12585.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12586.23284375,"end":12613.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12613.77284375,"end":12710.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12694.047218750002,"end":12694.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12710.43284375,"end":12715.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12715.32659375,"end":12723.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12726.04221875,"end":12738.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12739.79534375,"end":12740.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12740.63909375,"end":12740.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12741.28034375,"end":12741.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12741.989093750002,"end":12749.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12750.375968750002,"end":12751.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12752.519093750001,"end":12753.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12753.329093750002,"end":12757.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12757.56471875,"end":12762.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12760.062218750001,"end":12760.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12762.880343750003,"end":12763.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12763.673468750003,"end":12765.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12767.26784375,"end":12769.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12768.094718750002,"end":12769.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12769.52909375,"end":12783.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12783.805343750002,"end":12785.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12785.88096875,"end":12790.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12792.074093750001,"end":12794.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12795.297218750002,"end":12795.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12796.292843750001,"end":12801.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12803.12721875,"end":12809.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12810.265343750001,"end":12811.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12811.93596875,"end":12814.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12814.754093750002,"end":12816.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12816.35721875,"end":12822.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12820.829093750002,"end":12821.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12822.75284375,"end":12828.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12827.359718750002,"end":12832.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12833.367218750001,"end":12846.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12848.942843750003,"end":12862.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12864.04596875,"end":12864.82221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1472.663,"end":1485.037,"text":"報告委員會初席委員10人已足法定人數 請主席宣布開會好 各位委員還有各位觀眾人早安那我們就現在開會 首先先進行報告事項請先宣讀上次的會議議事錄"},{"start":1486.363,"end":1503.09,"text":"立法院第十一屆第五會期司法及法治委員會第四次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年三月三十日星期一上午九十二分至十一時四十五分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員陳昭志委員等十二人"},{"start":1503.57,"end":1523.799,"text":"列席委員李坤成委員等五人列席官員司法院秘書長高金之等人主席翁昭吉委員小林報告事項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 邀請司法院秘書長法務部部長 內政部警政署就法院安全秩序維護與法警職權行使進行專題報告並備質詢"},{"start":1525.66,"end":1541.146,"text":"本次會議有委員陳昭資委員等12人提出質詢委員蔡其昌吳宗憲提出書面質詢決定一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關尽速送交個別委員及本會宣讀完畢"},{"start":1543.764,"end":1561.264,"text":"好 請問這場委員對於這個上次會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏之處沒有的話呢 我們就議事錄確定那接著我就先介紹今天到場的委員以及應邀列席的官員首先介紹在場的委員有陳昭芝委員黃建豪委員張志倫委員"},{"start":1562.711,"end":1581.297,"text":"然後林沛翔委員還有陳軍輝委員好那今天列席的官員有法務部的黃某信政務次長是還有司法院的少年級家事廳的鍾中林廳長內政部的地政司專門委員張專委然後財政部的財富署財稅組的專門委員蔡專委好謝謝然後我們接下來就先好"},{"start":1593.005,"end":1593.285,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":1623.172,"end":1642.963,"text":"首先我必須向社會大眾澄清一個重點就是這次修法絕對沒有剝奪兄弟姊妹的繼承權尤其我們現在是超高齡社會兄弟姊妹其實非常非常的重要但是我們這次重視的是個人對於自己的財產的支配的一個權限"},{"start":1644.537,"end":1673.129,"text":"那如果往生者他只要沒有預立遺囑排除兄弟姊妹的繼承權的話那手足兄弟姊妹一樣可以依法繼承一毛錢都不會少所以我有看到很多人他批評我們的提案但是他的部分可能有所誤解我們並沒有侵害兄弟姊妹的繼承權而是當被繼承人他遺囑有特別排除兄弟姊妹繼承的時候這時候才會受影響"},{"start":1674.449,"end":1697.287,"text":"所以我們的修法只有一件事情就是如果一個人他生前他已經把遺囑寫好了法律要不要去硬性規定一定得分一部分給兄弟姊妹這是我們的核心那我們這個特留份的制度呢它是民國19年在農業大家族時代的產物其實早就不符合現在的這種家庭制度的"},{"start":1698.007,"end":1725.836,"text":"的這個關係了那世界上的文明國家很多國家他們也沒有這個制度或是早就廢棄了這個制度那我們以韓國為例好了韓國在2024年他就已經宣判宣布這個東西是違憲的那但是呢我們到2026我們還在討論這個部分要不要修法所以我們今天是希望跟上世界的潮流我們希望走向尊重被繼承者他對於自己財產的"},{"start":1727.723,"end":1742.359,"text":"一個主要的自己的決定權限當一個人他白紙黑字寫下遺囑說要把畢生的積蓄留給照顧他陪伴他終老的配偶或伴侶或其他人法律卻特別"},{"start":1743.54,"end":1768.634,"text":"強迫他必須把錢拿出來交給一個幾十年沒有聯絡的手足這個合理嗎所以這是我們的核心最近那個藝人那個曹熙平過世就發生這個狀況他希望把錢留給一直照顧他起居的乾兒子但是呢我們的法治卻會讓他必須把錢交給可能他非常久都沒有見面彼此沒有往來的手足"},{"start":1769.815,"end":1793.606,"text":"所以我要說 雖然有人覺得說兄弟姊妹裡面的人是不是有誰生活比較辛苦 需不需要這一筆錢但是這個應該是政府的責任 是社會局的責任不應該強迫被繼承人來去服從這樣的法令所以我要說 不能因為少數狀況就讓所有的兄弟姊妹不管平常沒有來往 不管有沒有照顧他 不管有沒有陪伴他 甚至是"},{"start":1794.726,"end":1821.055,"text":"爸爸媽媽在外面去生的小孩根本一輩子都沒有見過面的都可以依法先拿走一部分一部分的這個特留份更何況民法1149條它就有遺產佐給制度也就是佐給遺產請求權所以任何長期受他撫養或生活上有照顧的必須之人本來就可以透過民法1149條去請求而不是像現在一刀切的"},{"start":1821.775,"end":1847.845,"text":"用特留份來處理這個問題我們不能用80幾年前僵化的法律制度來要求現在的人必須繼續的去做那這次修法的重點是我們尊重醫院回歸遺族自由自己的財產自己決定而且保障真正的照顧者那這個東西這個法案是一個福國利民的法案那我們希望朝野能夠團結一致務必支持好那真的最後"},{"start":1848.725,"end":1857.87,"text":"請所有的立委同仁能夠支持這個法案 謝謝現在我們請翁曉琳委員做提案說明"},{"start":1872.191,"end":1890.981,"text":"各位委員還有主席 大家好我想這次針對民法第1223條關於特留份的規定這條規定其實最早是制定於民國18年在當時的社會背景主要是強調是家族共同體血親之間的"},{"start":1893.282,"end":1911.128,"text":"經濟關係是緊密而且相互依存因此在當事人如果說有立有遺囑之餘還特別有設置有特留份的制度借以來維護家庭成員的基本經濟安全然而隨著時代的演進台灣的家庭形態已經從家族的團體結構"},{"start":1912.888,"end":1932.034,"text":"轉變成為是以個人以及核心家庭為中心那麼單身族以及頂客族的比例是逐年攀升那兄弟姊妹之間的互動與情感聯繫可能也不如以往的這麼緊密因此在此由檢討修正給予兄弟姊妹特留份制度的必要性"},{"start":1932.734,"end":1944.659,"text":"那現行的法律強制規定兄弟姐妹是可以請求應濟分三分之一的特留份但是就像我們之前所說的在現代社會當中這種制度的設計其實已經與實際的狀況脫節如果我們強行要求個人一定要留遺產"},{"start":1952.523,"end":1978.075,"text":"给兄弟姐妹这可能会对于当事人也就是被继承人的遗嘱自由造成过度的限制导致没有办法依据个人的意志完全处分他的遗产那再说我们放眼国际重视个人的遗产处分的自主权已经是一个主流的趋势像是在韩国2024年就已经正式宣告兄弟姐妹特留份的制度是违宪的"},{"start":1979.298,"end":2007.33,"text":"那麼在日本、德國、法國雖然說他們仍然保有特留份但是保障範圍也大部分都是只限於直系的親屬也就是父母、子女以及配偶相較之下我國現行法規雖然仍然是將兄弟姐妹納入遺產的保障範圍但是其實也不符合時代的趨勢因此在這時候我們要做一個與時俱進的改革修正其實是有它的必要性的"},{"start":2008.632,"end":2022.001,"text":"那麼為了落實憲法保障財產權處分的意志因此本次修正的重點呢主要就是刪除兄弟姐妹的特留份將民法1223條第四款的規定解除對於被繼承人處分財產的束縛那麼同時呢我們也會配合刪除的條款去調整那個修改的項次那最後我們是希望透過這次的修法可以讓法律回歸到這個回應"},{"start":2037.651,"end":2054.129,"text":"现在的社会的形态那么同时呢我们要保障每位国民的遗产处分的自主权那么在此呢也敬请各位委员同仁们能够支持本次的修正草案将兄弟姐妹特别份的制度规定的予以废止以上谢谢"},{"start":2065.393,"end":2066.966,"text":"好 接下來我們請林沛翔委員發言"},{"start":2078.908,"end":2106.248,"text":"主席 各位委員先進本席與上會席總舉之尋間曾向行政院及法務部明確提出應全面檢討現行繼承制度中的兄弟姊妹特留份制規定並呼籲政府正視其與現代社會脫節之問題現行民法第121223條所定的特留份制度是建立於過往以大家庭為主的社會結構"},{"start":2107.731,"end":2135.483,"text":"然而 隨著我國社會的快速變遷人口結構及家庭形態已產生重大轉變我國目前正面臨少子女化及超高齡化的趨勢單身人口比例持續上升 頂客家族日益普遍家庭關係亦趨於多元化發展此等變化均顯示現行制度所依據的社會基礎已不復存在"},{"start":2136.303,"end":2140.153,"text":"然而在現行制度之下即使繼承人已透過遺囑"},{"start":2142.011,"end":2170.254,"text":"明確表達其財產分配意願但仍可能因兄弟姊妹特留份規定之限制至其意思無法完全實現甚至須將其一生累積之財產分配於平時鮮少來往或無實質輔助關係之手足此等制度設計鮮於以人民與對於財產自主及遺主自由的期待有所落差"},{"start":2171.135,"end":2183.873,"text":"是以本案修正重點系刪除民法第1223條第4款有關兄弟姊妹特留份之規定使繼承制度回歸合理分配之本質"},{"start":2187.038,"end":2212.378,"text":"並強化對被繼承人財產處分意思之尊重本席必須強調本次修法並非否定家庭價值或親屬關係而系在保障直系親屬基本生活制度架構之下適度調整與不合時宜之規範使法律在維護家庭倫理與尊重個人財產自主之間"},{"start":2213.689,"end":2233.252,"text":"取得更為切實之平衡法律制度本已應與時俱進隨社會變遷而適度調整倘若拘泥於過往的制度設計無視現實環境之變化將難以回應人民之期待亦不利於法治之健全發展"},{"start":2234.298,"end":2260.4,"text":"本案之提出阻止在使我國繼承制度更符合當代社會的實際狀況落實財產自主以及移植自由的基本原則並回應社會各界對於制度改革的期待眾上所屬敬請各位委員支持本修正草案之通過謝謝好 謝謝林委員接下來我們就請張志倫委員發言"},{"start":2271.175,"end":2283.271,"text":"好謝謝主席各位委員同仁各位各位官員大家好本席今天與林佩祥蘇清泉等18位委員共同提出民法第1223條條文修正"},{"start":2286.696,"end":2311.932,"text":"草案核心訴求就是一個順應時代變遷刪除兄弟姐妹特留份的規定把財產處分權還給當事人民法第1223條條文制定於民國第19年當時社會是以宗族大家庭兄弟姐妹共居共財同居共財但現在台灣社會早已是以核心家庭為主"},{"start":2312.552,"end":2336.041,"text":"成年兄弟姐妹大多各自獨立生活對於被繼承人的財產累積及維繫通常沒有實質貢獻然而在這樣的背景之下現行民法規定強制保留三分之一特留份給兄弟姐妹這不僅嚴重侵害了憲法上保障財產處分自由實務上更是引發家族兄弟姐妹間增產訴訟"},{"start":2338.462,"end":2356.482,"text":"甚至許多未聯絡的兄弟姊妹當當事人過世後突然出現要求分配遺產這對長期照護當事人的配偶或伴侶來說極度不公平所以本席在這裡要特別強調只是修法只是刪除特留份並未"},{"start":2357.583,"end":2375.688,"text":"更動兄弟姊妹的法定繼承順位也就是說當事人未立遺囑兄弟姊妹依法仍有享有繼承權但若當事人生前已立下遺囑處分財產法律上兄弟姊妹們就不應該再以特留份"},{"start":2377.128,"end":2395.92,"text":"來強制分產違背當事人的最終意願我們以鄰近國家韓國特留份為例韓國憲法法庭在2024年宣告兄弟姐妹特留份制度違憲理由正是不符合現代家庭結構過度侵害財產中的處分權"},{"start":2397.941,"end":2423.857,"text":"而法務部在去年114年的12月專案報告及委託研究中也明確指出我國已經邁入超高齡社會繼承法制必須翻修這其包含我國移組協會等公民團體以及民眾現在在公共政策網路參與平台上發起的廢除特留份的連署"},{"start":2424.477,"end":2443.493,"text":"都展現了社會對修法的高度的共識跟強烈訴求立法機關應當積極回應這股民間倡議的力量帶領國家邁向法治的現代化所以懇請各位委員同仁與行政機關支持本案謝謝大家好 謝謝張委員那接下來我們請黃建豪委員發言接下來就是你"},{"start":2456.462,"end":2457.796,"text":"妹妹妹"},{"start":2460.578,"end":2487.444,"text":"好 謝謝主席在場各位官員 各位委員我想我們今天這邊討論這個兄弟姊妹特留份的部分還是要一樣再次強調今天這個討論這個修法的過程裡面手足的繼承權完全不受影響兄弟姊妹的法定繼承的地位它依然存在那只是修法只是取消了強制保留給兄弟姊妹也就是這一次修法的重點特留份的規定所以如果被繼承人他沒有特別利益主要將財產"},{"start":2488.664,"end":2505.705,"text":"子弟給其他人的話兄弟姊妹當然他依然可以依照這個因紀份來繼承相關的財產那另外呢我們要考慮到現代社會的變遷我想由於台灣當代社會裡面我們的婚姻關係非常多元不管是離婚率再婚率或非婚生子女的比例我想也比過去農業時代高非常非常多"},{"start":2506.286,"end":2534.445,"text":"那這個法律當初立的標準是確實在這個大家族在家庭和樂融融的年代立下的法律所以認為說兄弟姊妹應該互相照顧但是在我提到剛剛的所說的現在社會裡面離婚率、再婚率跟非婚生子女心上存在的情況之下我們如果還是強制用法律去要求兄弟姊妹之間有特留份的話我想對於很多當事人或對個人來講他的心情上的衝擊跟他對財產分配的自由權還是有很大的影響所以我們這一次的修法是希望說"},{"start":2536.246,"end":2537.888,"text":"所以我們還是要回到這個法律本身"},{"start":2553.866,"end":2573.951,"text":"當時當然是為了防止經濟能力親屬喪失這個生活依據之後可能兄弟姊妹之間互相照顧去立這樣的法但是我想當代社會跟當時民國19年時的當時的社會形態有很大很大的變遷我想法律還是要回應當代的需求所以我們特別提出這個修法也希望各位委員跟我們的行政機關能夠來支持以上說明 謝謝好 謝謝黃金航委員那接下來我們請陳軍輝委員發言"},{"start":2584.642,"end":2608.395,"text":"主席各位委員同仁還有我們今天列席的官員們本席提出民法第1223條條文的修正草案主張刪除兄弟姐妹的特留份規定這是目前外界社會界針對現代社會變遷還有家庭型態的重塑以及個人財產處分自主權的重要回應現行民法繼承制度的結構"},{"start":2609.696,"end":2631.385,"text":"多半成型於民國初期的時候在當時農業經濟背景下宗族的聚落是社會最核心的生活單位家族的成員往往同居共財兄弟姊妹在生產還有生活上具有極高度的依存還有分工的關係彼此的扶持共同承擔的家族的勞務"},{"start":2632.305,"end":2652.198,"text":"在當時的歷史背景下法律將兄弟姊妹列為繼承人並賦予特留份制度是為了肯定他們對於家庭經濟的投入與貢獻這個體現了早期社會對於家族責任和互助倫理的制度化回應然而呢上述制度設計所依循的社會基礎早已跟現代的現實漸行漸遠"},{"start":2655.76,"end":2670.893,"text":"隨著經濟結構轉型多數國民的財產來源主要憑藉著個人離鄉就業的薪資所得專業收入或者是金融投資理財所累積其形成的過程已不再建立在家族成員之間的共同勞動還有共財的關係"},{"start":2673.194,"end":2693.35,"text":"當財富取得形態由家族共同打拼全面轉向成個人努力累積法律制度如果仍維持傳統時代的繼承邏輯勢必會造成嚴重的現實落差難以回應現代社會的發展需求此外少子化高齡化還有都市化所帶來的人口家庭結構改變"},{"start":2694.491,"end":2712.411,"text":"正加速改變我國的國家樣貌核心家庭還有小家庭的比例持續上升這樣子的背景下財產處分的自主性與尊重個人意志已成為現代法治社會的重要價值對於許多與原生家庭關係疏離或是一生獨自奮鬥的國人來說"},{"start":2715.214,"end":2732.135,"text":"應該擁有完全的權力去決定如何處分自己辛苦累積的成果而非受限於過時的法律強制分配大法官釋字第770號就曾經提到財產權不僅是生存的保障更是個人自主發展的基礎"},{"start":2733.036,"end":2757.843,"text":"當兄弟姊妹之間已經沒有實質的經濟依賴關係時強制保留特留份制度不僅失去了原有的社會正當性更往往成為許多家庭遺產紛爭的導火線違背了被繼承人的真實意願我們已經收到很多的陳情案件所以本席才認為有修法的必要本席提案刪除兄弟姊妹特留份是為了落實尊重"},{"start":2758.883,"end":2779.911,"text":"財產處分自主還有被繼承人抑制的核心精神使繼承制度更加的周延並符合現代社會的通念希望各位委員同仁都可以同力支持推動法案與時俱進回應人民對自主生活的期待 謝謝謝謝主席好 謝謝陳靜惠委員那接下來我們請林德福委員發言"},{"start":2793.919,"end":2818.133,"text":"謝謝 謝謝主席 各位委員同仁我想今天有關於修正兄弟姊妹特留婚規定的部分將本條第四條修正為曾有撫養被繼承人事實或繼承人身心障礙或無謀生能力受被繼承人撫養者兄弟姊妹之特留婚"},{"start":2819.414,"end":2830.414,"text":"為其因計三分聚分三分之一為各繼承人中為何僅有兄弟姊妹須符合上開要件"},{"start":2831.576,"end":2852.225,"text":"此能獲得特留分是否有公平性之問題見請審酌又兄弟姐妹曾有撫養被繼承人士時為僅此要件是難衡量兄弟姐妹互出之多寡而一律獲得特留分而"},{"start":2855.107,"end":2879.749,"text":"較難達到繼承人兼之實質平等逆兄弟姊妹為繼承人而有身分身心障礙或無謀生能力受繼承人撫養之情形一律獲得固定比例之特留分而非考量其個案需受撫養之程度及一切相關"},{"start":2881.05,"end":2903.766,"text":"因素決定是缺乏彈性中以上是否能達到修正本條款規定之目的見情再酌以上謝謝謝謝林德鋒委員那接下來下一位我們請羅廷威委員進行提案說明那羅廷威委員進行提案說明之後就是徐宇貞委員請指"},{"start":2909.056,"end":2928.217,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想先請大家思考一個問題如果當一個人已經清楚寫下了遺囑決定他的財產要怎麼留要分給誰我們的法律為什麼要替他來做另外一種的分配這個問題就是今天修法我們要面對的核心"},{"start":2929.378,"end":2949.136,"text":"我們民法第1223條讓兄弟姊妹享有特留份這個制度相信許多委員都一再的強調民國18、19年將近100年前大家族的共居共財的一個背景下所設計的但在現在的社會很明顯就不一樣"},{"start":2950.057,"end":2977.017,"text":"我們看到最近甚至有知名的藝人所留下的深厚是在接受社會輿論的討論我們也看到鄰近國家許多的一些觀點甚至是潛力現在多數的家庭兄弟姊妹各自成家各自生活各自經濟上都是獨立在現在的現實當中也有很多是長年沒有往來的"},{"start":2978.188,"end":3002.847,"text":"但在現行的制度下即使沒有共同的生活沒有撫養關係仍然可以依法主張一定比例的特留份我們在實務上看到通常是很具體的情況簡單來說就是一個人和配偶一起生活了數十年當他要離開的時候他透過遺囑所做的安排卻不一定能夠完整的被實現"},{"start":3004.328,"end":3021.114,"text":"這裡我們要談的已經不是怎麼分配財產而是我們的法律制度沒有真正尊重一個人對自己的人生所做的最後決定也就是被繼承人的意思能夠自治能不能真正被落實"},{"start":3022.054,"end":3047.004,"text":"同時我也想特別說明本次的說法並非剝奪兄弟姊妹的繼承權在沒有遺族的情況下兄弟姊妹仍然可以依現行法定繼承順序來繼承遺產法律不只是分配財產更重要的是是理解並且尊重我們的國人每一個人的選擇"},{"start":3048.434,"end":3064.807,"text":"當一個人已經透過遺囑為自己人生做最後的安排我們應該讓這份心意能夠好好的被完成財產要留給誰是親情的選擇是人生的安排法律的角色不應該讓遺憾"},{"start":3068.34,"end":3093.845,"text":"讓他變成真正完成他的遺願才是我們應該要做的以上我也懇請朝野所有的立委以及我們現在的主管機關能夠一起來支持好 謝謝那接下來我們請徐宇貞委員進行提案說明徐委員之後我們就請林建勤委員進行提案說明"},{"start":3104.881,"end":3121.566,"text":"主席各位同仁本席今日提出民法第1223條的條文修正草案就是刪除我國現行民法兄弟姊妹特留分的規定兄弟姊妹特留分是在民國19年所制定當時的社會背景是家族共同體"},{"start":3122.426,"end":3142.535,"text":"兄弟姊妹間不僅血濃於水經濟上也高度的互相依存然而將近一個世紀過去台灣已經步入核心家庭少子化的社會當年的法律設計顯然已經跟不上現代社會的腳步不同以往現代社會中家庭資源大都集中在父母跟子女即是親屬之間"},{"start":3143.695,"end":3167.234,"text":"兄弟姐妹成年後也多半各自獨立組成家庭彼此間的經濟依賴極低現行法律強制撥出財產給兄弟姐妹往往違反被繼承人的真實意願實務上我們常看到被繼承人與兄弟姐妹長期疏離其實已經甚至早已互不往來但因受限於特留份的規定被繼承人"},{"start":3167.854,"end":3190.185,"text":"即便遇利已主也無法完整的處分遺產導致繼承發生時徵送平仁反而撕裂了家族的情感對此本席參考國際立法的趨勢包括德國、日本、法國等先進國家雖然仍保留有特留份的制度但其保障的對象大都限於配偶與直系血親"},{"start":3190.885,"end":3215.984,"text":"兄弟姐妹也多半早已排除在特留份之外韓國甚至宣布違憲所以台灣若要落實財產處分自由就必須要檢討現行的法規因此本席提議刪除民法第1223條第4款即刪除兄弟姐妹之特留份為其因紀份三分之一之規定讓特留份的保障回歸到最需要照顧的直系親屬與配偶"},{"start":3217.645,"end":3243.448,"text":"各位同仁,此次的修法并非否定亲情而是尊重个人对财产的处分权让民众在人生的最后一里路能够依照自己的意志将资源留给最亲近或者最需要照顾的人而非受限于百年前的陈旧教条希望能够做到落实遗嘱自由并维护继承公民以上恳请各位同仁支持,谢谢"},{"start":3246.101,"end":3248.926,"text":"好 謝謝徐委員那接下來我們請林慶琪委員發言"},{"start":3262.697,"end":3288.319,"text":"主席福惠同仁還有媒體朋友大家好今天本席針對民法第1223條特留份制度來提出修正主要的目的是在於回應當前家庭結構的一個變遷也是在落實遺主自由與財產處分自主的一個原則那麼現在的特留份制度原本是為了保障近親屬的一個基本權"},{"start":3289.8,"end":3317.506,"text":"繼承的一個權益然而呢隨著社會的一個發展我國的家庭形態已經由傳統大家庭轉為以核心家庭為主那麼兄弟姐妹多於成年之後各自獨立生活那與被繼承人的經濟依附跟日常互動的顯然其實減少很多那麼在此情形下呢如果能保留兄弟姐妹之特留份很難符合制度的一個原始設計目的"},{"start":3318.826,"end":3347.37,"text":"那實務上呢也常常見到旁系親屬在關係疏遠甚至長期沒有往來的情況下能依法主張特留份進而引發了繼承的一個徵送那這一類的案件呢不僅削弱了遺囑安排的完等性也造成家族衝突與司法資源的一個負擔那麼顯示現行的制度有檢討的必要那麼比較法上包括德國日本等國特留份"},{"start":3347.97,"end":3373.872,"text":"都限於配偶及直系血親並不急於兄弟姊妹那麼我國在現行的一個規範之下比較看起來這樣化那沒有辦法來反映現代社會的一個實際狀況因此本次修法的重點在於刪除兄弟姊妹之特留份規定那麼使特留份制度回歸保障與被繼承人具有高度撫養關係之生活連結之盡清楚"},{"start":3376.074,"end":3405.318,"text":"同时强化遗嘱自由与财产自由分配之正当性并有助于减少不必要之继承争议那么以上的报告呢那敬请各位委员及相关的单位来支持本案的这个修法以上谢谢好谢谢林委员那么就提案说明就进行到此那本次议程有排定讨论事项两案分别为民法第1223条条文修正草案"},{"start":3405.845,"end":3418.357,"text":"還有審查民法繼承偏施行法增訂第12條的條文草案那麼接下來我們就先進行機關代表報告每位發言時間也是三分鐘為限那麼我們首先先請法務部的鄭次長報告對不起 是黃政務次長 對不起"},{"start":3426.969,"end":3445.432,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士各位先生今天奉邀列席各位委員會請代表本部說明並備詢說明如下有關兄弟姊妹特留分的議題本部於去年為請學者完成的檢討修正民法繼承編的研究後目前正參酌整個研究的成果"},{"start":3446.133,"end":3470.03,"text":"還有這個併同105年民法修正編的相關草案目前已經邀集相關的學者專家成立本部的民法計程編研修小組現在正在進行修法的推動工作有關於兄弟姊妹特留份這個議題依照這個研究成果的建議以及參考外國的立法例以橫著各方權益及檢視相關的配套"},{"start":3471.251,"end":3488.702,"text":"例如是否採外國立法律的貢獻分的制度以及對於這個遺產著給的部分如何的在衡著最佳的修正模式來符合不同個案的狀況跟公平性"},{"start":3489.542,"end":3507.505,"text":"那接下來就各委員的修正意見本部基本上是這個有關於刪除兄弟姊妹特留份的立法方向本部是贊成的但為求法制的完善人應該就相關的配套及修正條文提供以下的意見第一個有關於"},{"start":3508.306,"end":3522.771,"text":"完全的刪除這個兄弟姊妹特留份的部分呢那建議是不是採個案這個狀況呢要有相關的配套較為周全第二個是刪除兄弟姊妹及祖父母特留份的部分那"},{"start":3523.531,"end":3543.363,"text":"參考外國的立法例現在關於祖父母的特留份外國還是有保留特留份的規定而且個案上祖父母去繼承的狀況實際上是非常少數目前社會還沒有就這部分形成共識是否有祖父母的部分的特留份也刪除的必要見請歸案再酌"},{"start":3545.444,"end":3566.872,"text":"另外有關於修正兄弟姊妹特留份的增加前提要件的部分這部分人請大院審酌因為為什麼只有兄弟姊妹要設特別的要件來規範而且為什麼一律給或者是給固定的比例完全沒有彈性空間這個是否可以達到修法的目的人請再酌"},{"start":3568.092,"end":3590.304,"text":"另外有關於這個民法計程編施行法的部分事實上我們民法計程編施行法第一條就有關於這個不說既往的相關規定是否有再增訂的必要議請再酌那最後有關於兄弟姊妹退後份的相關議題本部目前正召集相關的修法會議研修當中建議廣納各界的意見並同相關的配套審議以為周妥"},{"start":3592.105,"end":3611.529,"text":"那如果大院最後的決定仍要刪除這個兄弟姊妹特留份本部人尊重大院審議結果也會適時的提供相關的法制意見 以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝 那麼其餘的列席機關除了書面內容外 還沒有要進行狗頭報告的"},{"start":3612.847,"end":3641.222,"text":"好 那因為時間關係我想就是其他的機關的書面報告我們就列為公報記錄那現在我們就進行開我們現在開始進行詢答那考量今天詢答之後還會進行法案的審查所以我們就請本會的委員詢答時間為6分鐘必要時候可以延長2分鐘非本會的委員詢答時間為4分鐘並且不再延長那麼上午10點30分截止發言登記那我們首先先請登記第一位的吳宗憲委員發言"},{"start":3647.404,"end":3652.176,"text":"謝謝主席那我們麻煩次長還有我們麻煩中廳長麻煩次長還有中廳長"},{"start":3657.76,"end":3685.823,"text":"兩位早安 辛苦了次長 我在討論這個遺產分配的修法之前我想先要討論一下檢察官一個很重要的相驗也就是驗屍工作那制度上面有一些必須改善那因為這個跟我們今天要討論的這個遺產分配能不能夠尊重其實都是一個相似的目標就是法務部到底有沒有站在人民最痛苦的時刻去思考我們制度該怎麼做"},{"start":3686.604,"end":3706.359,"text":"那我先講相驗這個部分就驗屍這個部分因為我在宜蘭地方跑的時候遇到很多鄉親其實他們都一直在抱怨法務部同一件事情那也就是說制度上面非病死或以為非病死那我們就要進入司法相驗由檢察官來處理也就是說很多家庭他親人突然離世他都必須面對檢察官來驗屍"},{"start":3708.2,"end":3733.155,"text":"檢察官相驗的工作呢不應該只是查明死因而已他必須還要思考的就是在家屬最痛苦的時刻他感受到政府的制度是冷漠還是政府的制度是溫暖但是現代時務的運作可能會讓民眾感覺到是很折磨啦那我想請教次長 次長你知不知道26年前我第一次參加相驗或解剖是誰帶我去的 次長知道嗎"},{"start":3735.055,"end":3755.704,"text":"就就次長 次長是我的老師嘛所以我第一次 世澳關訓練所世澳關學院他的法醫學只是紙上彈兵我們是看照片看影片但是第一個帶我去實際參與驗屍解剖的是次長您嘛那我記得第一次解剖當時退休楊日松法醫也有在場那我在您在處理這個"},{"start":3757.445,"end":3775.912,"text":"外勤案件的時候我在上面看到的是您對於家屬的尊重以及對於制度的堅持這是我在您身上學習到了但是我現在走訪到地方很多人告訴我常常派出所告訴家屬說下午兩點會議但是甲官到場是下午六點的"},{"start":3776.352,"end":3799.599,"text":"那也有那種他們已經穿好獸衣了結果法醫到場必須拿剪刀把獸衣剪開來驗屍因為我們都知道死亡之後屍體會僵硬所以你要再把獸衣脫下來驗屍是很困難的事所以法醫到場就直接把它剪開結果後來家屬還要去找新的獸衣然後可能還找不到結果整個在那邊一團混亂所以"},{"start":3800.559,"end":3807.389,"text":"我認為說 親人離世 家屬已經很痛苦了司法是不是應該給他最基本的體諒"},{"start":3809.232,"end":3837.88,"text":"我這個部分我希望說對對於這個去驗屍的這個時間叫家屬請他等待的這個時間我們能不能夠去做一個修正家屬不是不能等當然不能被晾在那邊那警察很多時候不敢問檢察官時間所以警察就隨便跟家屬說兩點要去驗結果檢察官因為整個縣市要跑嘛那他必須必須這樣子排著過去的時候可能已經晚了但是這個部分"},{"start":3838.32,"end":3864.864,"text":"是不是可以修正一下這個制度有沒有進到一個基本的告知預估時間或者是基本的同理心我想這個是民眾很在意的所以我想說請次長做的能夠兩個最基本的今天就能做到的是第一個法務部是不是願意函各地檢署就相驗時間通報機制讓排成一出來就能夠把預估到達時間請派出所轉資加速因為"},{"start":3865.984,"end":3891.26,"text":"很多地檢一天的外勤抱怨大概就是四件五件那大的地檢雖然有十幾件但是有外一外二有兩組人嘛所以負擔上面並不會增加很多那第二個就是說法務部是否能夠積極的宣導譬如說統一製作一個香煙注意事項的一夜市說明讓這個家屬跟殯葬業者在香煙前不要先更換獸醫避免說還要再檢調這個問題啦"},{"start":3894.712,"end":3913.452,"text":"這兩個事情都不需要修法而且不需要編預算我們就請書記官大概彙整一下整個路徑然後來請警察通知這部分不知道次長有沒有辦法做跟委員報告相驗的狀況下這個檢察官的同理心這的確屬我們在各個相驗案件我們都做要求的啦"},{"start":3913.832,"end":3939.63,"text":"尤其在相應案的過程當中讓家屬等的在過程當中的確在引起很多的民怨所以事實上現在各地檢署的檢察官他都會請書記官或請司法警察會預先的告知什麼時候會到但是如同這個委員講的他也許有些地檢署只有一班在輪有些地檢署大地檢署兩班在輪他有些碰到一個有些緊急要處理的相應案件他會先處理所以有些案件他會有一些排擠的狀況"},{"start":3941.351,"end":3947.745,"text":"你剛才提到的事實上有些地檢署在我曾經服務過的地檢署我就做過一件事情就是說我要把相驗的時間就上網"},{"start":3950.123,"end":3978.689,"text":"上網排序用編號的方式大概幾點幾時分的時候會驗到你上網家屬就可以透過警察上網去查我大概幾點的時候會排到我相驗這個制度這個制度當然後來各地的地檢組各地的地檢組去落實啦那我剛剛提的這個絕對可以做到要求書記官要求檢察官你什麼時候去要跟人家說明第二點有關一夜市的說明的簡單那個簡子說明事實上現在在各地的地檢組相驗的過程當中尤其我們飯堡"},{"start":3979.389,"end":3993.381,"text":"都會有一些相關的配套措施再給一個一頁式的說明相驗後你要去辦哪些行政措施你要辦哪些手續 電話是什麼我們都把列一張表讓家屬一張表 他一目了然他該做的後續時間他都可以做好 謝謝市長 因為時間關係"},{"start":3995.643,"end":4018.84,"text":"我覺得我還是希望政府能夠愛民如子啊那現在在地方上還有很多人抱怨這個事那表示我們還有修正改進的空間那是如果有相關的東西也是盡量宣導至少民眾不是不能等但是他不能被晾在那因為他們家裡有親人過世其實他們非常的忙非常多事情要做這部分再麻煩您那可不可以兩週內跟警政組確認一下流程然後"},{"start":4020.581,"end":4035.579,"text":"然後告訴我們一下 或是能夠頒布全國地檢署這部分再請次長處理因為我再談一個 日本我看他的實務還有一些研究資料裡面他甚至在討論說 要不要再"},{"start":4036.86,"end":4058.27,"text":"屍檢的就是驗屍的一開始他就雙手合十對那個屍體去做一鞠躬他叫一理的這個動作啦那當然我沒有說要求我們要學習這個制度但是我看到的是當其他國家在進行司法調查這個死亡調查的過程中他們都對於遺體是如此的尊重他們重視一個程序倫理"},{"start":4059.491,"end":4074.421,"text":"既然他們都有這種想法那我們是不是最基本我沒有要求你對屍體要去做這個致敬的動作但是至少我們要同理心能夠了解家屬他們在這個等待漫長等待的這個的辛苦所以這是我今天提出來"},{"start":4074.921,"end":4096.539,"text":"司法不應該只是查明死因司法應該要尊重懂得尊重死者還有體諒死者的家屬公務員必須苦民所苦這部分再麻煩次長那第二個回到今天的重點是特留份的部分我想法務部已經競表同意了啦那應該是不要再拖延啦當然法務部是有提到一個就是"},{"start":4098.108,"end":4123.988,"text":"有關這個特留份這個刪除之後會不會有一些影響一些其他手足的一些生活或一些什麼問題我想特留份制度是民國19年制定的其實跟現在的家庭的制度已經有很大的差距了那法務部其實之前有做過有請學者做過一份報告總共57頁那我們有把它看完了那一份報告可不可以給我們一份"},{"start":4125.748,"end":4148.937,"text":"那謝謝麻煩就是本週內給我們想要了解一下這個研究報告的結果是什麼那我那個研究報告其實他確實也是我知道他的結論是有明確有把這個修正特留份列為是一個重點修法項目的建議所以這部分麻煩市長能夠給我一份所以我想我今天講的一個核心三件事情"},{"start":4150.086,"end":4170.313,"text":"回歸遺族自由第二個 尊重被禁止人的遺願第三個 讓制度更貼近實質照顧跟陪伴的關係我知道你們有提了一個貢獻份對不對市長院簡單回答 貢獻份需不需要我國的這個佐給遺產請求權需不需要有特殊的親屬關係"},{"start":4174.137,"end":4198.653,"text":"報告委員 昨天受撫養之人 生前受撫養之人不需要你們這次法務部有提到貢獻份那司法院你們的報告有提到啦但是這個貢獻份其實它的重點在哪裡我先跟你們報告它重點並不是在談這個什麼血緣關係啦或是什麼它不是在這個 它的重點是在於實質照顧"},{"start":4200.635,"end":4209.569,"text":"這個部分是在談這個 但是這個東西不就跟我們的多給一餐請求權的制度其實是類似的嗎所以刪除特留份跟"},{"start":4210.717,"end":4238.978,"text":"建立貢獻份制度其實這兩個沒有矛盾我必須跟法務部報告一下這兩個根本就不矛盾這貢獻份的重點不是在血緣而是在實質照顧所以不管你有沒有血緣你有實質照顧的話其實我們的佐給遺產請求權跟日本的這貢獻份制度其實是類似的這個不能拿來當作說我到底要不要刪除這個特留份當作是這個理由啦所以我在這邊跟法務部報告這個狀況"},{"start":4240.4,"end":4242.694,"text":"那那個 我想我們就是"},{"start":4245.094,"end":4272.27,"text":"1149條有著卓格伊丹請求權這部分其實法務部也能夠列入參考一下好嗎好那那個我想我還提一個我跟主席報告就是施行法第12條那個部分因為那個是比較技術性的規範那個我不堅持因為我看法務部跟司法院沒有討論這一塊那其實我們回歸到不溯及記網原則也是可以用所以今天我們在討論法案的時候那個施行法12條我就不堅持好那不好意思最後30秒就是"},{"start":4274.231,"end":4292.529,"text":"市長我今天問了兩件事一個是鄉縣程序的辨明跟尊重然後一個是兄弟姊妹特留份的修法還有最近我覺得是拖延了表面上一個是檢查實務一個是民法繼承但本質上都是問同一件事就是法務部到底有沒有站在人民最痛苦的那一刻去設計制度所以"},{"start":4294.175,"end":4323.079,"text":"回答三個問題法務部願不願意在兩週內就是建立香煙制度通報機制避免家屬空等然後統一製作這個香煙注意事項等等例如避免這個收益被解開這事情可不可以好謝謝那法務部在那個今天報告說對於特留份的部分你們是競表贊同那今天可不可以支持我們這個刪除特留份的部分送出委員會各位報告這個刪除是贊成但是要有配套"},{"start":4323.399,"end":4340.518,"text":"那我跟委員報告 剛才講的遺產桌給請求錢 因為貢獻份基本上不太一樣遺產請求錢它是一個消極面 我是被這個被記者人撫養然後貢獻份是我撫養對 但是在特留份的部分我是講特留份 但我知道它兩個本質不太一樣但是在特留份刪除這一塊 它是能夠補足"},{"start":4341.739,"end":4357.333,"text":"這個空缺的然後法務部不要再用嚴議中來去拖延這個部分我想重點自己的財產法律應該尊重他的遺願親人離世希望司法給予他們最基本的體諒好 謝謝兩位"},{"start":4359.254,"end":4374.804,"text":"謝謝吳委員那剛剛吳委員有說希望就是說你們可以把研議報告送給吳委員一份我也希望說能夠給我們法治委員會的每一位委員都有一份好麻煩了好那接下來我們請陳昭志委員進行詢答謝謝謝謝主席麻煩次長好請次長"},{"start":4385.865,"end":4403.901,"text":"我也好好 次長早次長我先跟您確定一個法律問題根據我現在的民法其實在某一定條件下兄弟姊妹之間確實負有撫養義務就是說目前是這樣子但是因為台灣的目前社會基應該已經實際上很難看到這樣子一個例子所以在這個"},{"start":4404.842,"end":4422.751,"text":"這樣的事實下在這個目前的制度卻給予這個兄弟姊妹當然發生的特留份權利當然發生的所以您覺得這個的確是一個比例失衡嗎市長您的觀點是比例失衡嗎請簡單回答對那本部也說了在報告說了本部對刪除特留份的立場方向基本上贊成"},{"start":4423.251,"end":4428.315,"text":"他雖然有一定服養的這個 有服養的 一定條件下服養義務但是相對權力 但是又很少這樣執行嘛好 謝謝次長 次長我們法院有很多兄弟姊妹因為要爭這個特留份的那個訴訟 爭議而發生的訴訟案件坦白說看了很難過的 這是發生家屬之間我在司法院判決書系統上輸入特留份還有兄弟姊妹的關鍵字來搜尋"},{"start":4446.631,"end":4452.473,"text":"這個案子非常的多我先簡單舉一個例子被繼承人蔡先生他過去他生前未結婚然後他也沒有小孩爸爸媽媽又很早離世所以他的遺產繼承理論上是由他的兄弟姊妹來繼承繼承開始後他大哥跟小妹才發現因為蔡先生把遺產全部一證給二哥的兩個小孩子因為這兩個小孩子是生前真正照顧他的人"},{"start":4471.44,"end":4494.897,"text":"所以這個蔡先生大哥跟小妹竟然就對兩個舉止提出了這個告上的法院我必須說這個兄弟姊妹甚至是儲值或是這個孤子之間的特留分比率正義提高結果會是什麼呢大概我們看到就是多年長期的一個訴訟那大概整個家庭或家屬關係大概就破裂了所以特留分幾乎成了一個徵產工具"},{"start":4496.698,"end":4518.835,"text":"所以請問這樣的導致這個家庭破裂這個家族關係的制度 破碎的制度所以法務部您還會再堅持嗎 法務部會再堅持嗎各位報告 法務部刪除兄弟妹的特留份 法務部沒有堅持那我們來看一下比較法 日本在2018年修法之前是跟台灣幾乎一樣那有兄弟姊妹這個特留份的制度可以行使扣減權"},{"start":4520.276,"end":4548.997,"text":"到2019現行法實施後刪除了這個部分因為日本認為現代的關係現在家庭結構已經變化了而且這個兄弟姊妹的關係撫養關係也被弱化了那為了減少這個繼承糾紛而且很重要尊重被繼承人的一個意思所以做出了修正那我們看德國德國民法典也就是BGB當初在設計時就沒有採用法國的一個強制繼承的形態所以BGB2303條就沒有規定兄弟姊妹的特留份因為德國民法"},{"start":4550.018,"end":4569.495,"text":"認為兄弟姊妹不屬於撫養共同體核心強調個人財產自由也就是以主自由為先這樣的概念但是德國跟日本他並沒有完全這個否定所屬之間的輔助觀念和互相輔助的觀念而是說不把這個關係提升到"},{"start":4570.336,"end":4597.877,"text":"分財產的這樣的一個強度所以請教次長之前其實在司法委員會的公聽會當中法務部有表示說會採行現在日本的現行法已經修過的這個現行法去研擬但是您剛剛是沒有特別提到那我想知道說你剛剛也說了現在正在就是專家在研擬這樣的一個內容我想知道進度次長我想要知道這個進度你什麼時候要送出來今天有這麼多委員提出版本了我們在等咧在等願版咧"},{"start":4599.478,"end":4616.353,"text":"各位報告我剛也提到就是說我們的委託研究案去年已經完成了嘛那我們事實上我們在今年已經召開這個計程片的修法交通我想知道您預期的進度總量的預期進度我們現在進度我們已經開過一次會準備要開第二次會我們希望能不能夠在這個會期結束之前把法案預告"},{"start":4616.974,"end":4619.676,"text":"那今天這麼多委員提出的版本呢這個次長我要強調就是說目前民法中目前還有的兄弟姊妹的撫養義務其實是一種補充性的一個撫養義務在現實中往往生活上是不存在的所以不應該轉化為全面性的分產權利退留份制度應該是回到保障依附關係而不是擴張財產的請求權"},{"start":4640.612,"end":4643.374,"text":"那撫養義務的存在但不足以正當化特留份如果法務認為你們會擔心就是過去有必要性避免弱勢的兄弟姊妹生活困難那應該透過撫養制度啊而不是用直接分財產這個做法來做那社長你們今天版本到現在都送不出來那這邊有這麼多的"},{"start":4661.468,"end":4681.457,"text":"版本刪除其實很快 刪除就刪除而已我們現在是講 你想著給請求權今天有這麼多版本 我們乾脆就就其中討論 取出一個我們共同的版本我們是說要不要有其他配套 刪除我們也不反對要不要其他配套那其他委員已經有提出相對的這些版本沒有 其他委員是沒有其他的配套我們其實要趕快讓制度進步 接回國際不要讓台灣再投在一百年前"},{"start":4687.48,"end":4712.597,"text":"請問檢察官可以用不確定因素的某時地來定罪嗎?對於檢察官起訴人員遭到外界質疑例如2018年三中案經台北地檢署起訴當年的北檢檢察長邢太昭建議未來北院審理的過程全程開放直播面對外界質疑邢太昭甚至說他希望將錄音全部公布讓全民來檢視北檢是不是如外界所說的羅織"},{"start":4714.378,"end":4730.588,"text":"如果被告們願意簽據同意書那北院願意公開錄音證據請問次長您是否同意檢察總長邢太昭的當時的政策建議您是否同意請簡單回答委員你提到的是法庭直播的公開的錄音公佈嗎我是指剛剛我已經跟您說明邢太昭當這個北檢檢察長的時候他提出來的這個說法"},{"start":4737.315,"end":4759.617,"text":"他現在已經當然是申任總長了但是我知道這幾年我沒有看到他在法務部內外有類似的主張但是他當時確實提出了法庭全程直播甚至把錄音全部公開那我想您的意見 法務部的意見現在市長法院組織法已經就法庭直播的部分已經有法律明文規定 相關的公開播送的規定"},{"start":4760.881,"end":4788.002,"text":"但是法庭直播法你們沒有你們實施的辦法根本沒有依照這個立法的精神去執行現在的問題很多破綻很多那個是司法院所按照法院組織法所定的相關的辦法所以我想要知道法務部對於法庭全權直播這樣的母法已經在幾個月前已經確認你們的看法跟立場母法已經有了當然我們都要依法行政只是執法怎麼規範我們要尊重主管機關司法院現在就出很多問題了對那是主管機關司法院他定的執法的問題"},{"start":4788.883,"end":4811.033,"text":"那我們會往遵循 完全遵循母法立法的精神方向走嗎當然啊 當然法律已經定在那裡 我們就要依法行政啦好 今天時間有限啦我們會有一些沒有遵循母法的做法有很多的 我們再來繼續溝通協調好 謝謝市長謝謝主席謝謝陳委員那是不是可以請林切子委員先代替委員長解釋"},{"start":4826.836,"end":4836.001,"text":"我們現在請歐小瑩到位謝謝主席 首先有請黃次長也請中廳長好了好 那"},{"start":4849.486,"end":4868.451,"text":"首先我想跟次長這邊做個意見的交流因為事實上這次我們立法院很多的委員都提出要刪除兄弟姊妹的特留份這樣的規定那麼本席在這裡其實跟法務部還有也看了"},{"start":4869.291,"end":4891.408,"text":"司法院所提出的報告基本上就是你們在方向上面政策方向上面是支持可以刪除兄弟姐妹的特留份的規定那當然部長剛剛也一再的強調就希望能夠有配套措施那但是呢事實上就是法務部也已經進行研議了多年了其實這個已經也不算是說是"},{"start":4892.648,"end":4919.083,"text":"這個第一次演繹在更早之前當時法務部也曾經有多年前也曾經有提出過相關的版本那為什麼到現在為止還沒有辦法確定說如果你們要提出配套措施的話那這個配套措施是什麼因為我們今天的看起來我們法案會繼續的往前推進那麼如果說是這個配套措施是可以和今天我們所要刪除的特留份兄弟姊妹特留份的規定"},{"start":4920.544,"end":4938.36,"text":"脫鉤的話那我覺得基本上也不會妨礙整個今天的法案的審查各位報告我們105年提到大院的有關特留份的版本兄弟姐妹的部分其實不是完全刪除只是降低他特留份的比例現在限定規定是三分之一當時是把它降到四分之一"},{"start":4939.301,"end":4959.856,"text":"更低 降低比例之後兄弟姐妹還是保有一點點的特留份所以基本上不會有遺產著給請求權或者是貢獻份這個問題產生現在修法的方向是整個拿掉了整個拿掉之後就會產生這些兄弟姐妹我們要不要給他遺產著給要不要給他貢獻份的問題就會產生所以才說這個部分才要演繹配套的理由在這裡"},{"start":4960.6,"end":4965.781,"text":"是但是如果說按照就是剛剛次長這邊講的有關於遺產民法1149條的這個遺產酌給請求權的就是114條的規定的話其實這裡講的被繼承人生前繼續撫養之人這撫養之人不見得是指的他是法定繼承人嘛他可能是非法定繼承人如果說是法定繼承人的話那麼他也許就是就看他那個狀況對不對他有可能是"},{"start":4990.247,"end":5000.791,"text":"具有可以去請求法去請求特留份的就叫請求權的人或是他沒有特留份請求權的這個人所以在實際上你可不可以告訴我們類似會像你們所講的可能會涉及到之後會衍生有民法1149條的"},{"start":5013.537,"end":5030.208,"text":"遺產著給請求權的例子會是什麼?然後會有很多這樣的個案的發生嗎?跟委員報告這個119的遺產著給請求權從法條裡面看不出來但是我們實務行程的結果最高法院的判決結果認為這遺產著給的對象不包括繼承人"},{"start":5034.15,"end":5060.496,"text":"他的實務產生多年來一個實務上的間諜 不關他繼承人如果這個實務間諜落實的話未來不修法 不特別明定的話實務間諜繼續往下走的話兄弟姊妹他本身就是繼承人他就會被排除在1149的這一個遺產佐給的那個主體了所以為了避免實務產生這個實務間諜多年來的間諜的產生所以我們才希望訂一個法條在兄弟姊妹這種狀況之下明文規定他可以遺產佐給"},{"start":5061.596,"end":5076.311,"text":"要不然我們剝奪他的特留份之後他又不能夠遺產著給但他如果是法定繼承人的話基本上本來就不會有1149條的適用嘛那他就可以就是因此就會有如果他不是他如果他他繼承人他不能適用1149他就不能夠著給了"},{"start":5077.762,"end":5106.112,"text":"他生前是被這個死亡的人撫養的人他沒有特留份之後他又不能夠遺產佐給他就全無了其實他是可以申請的為什麼他不能夠申請就是我剛剛就是說149條對 149我們在實務法院實務的進檢是如此但是之後的話他應該可以有不同的一個解釋嘛但是我們法條對 因為從我們法條裡面來看的話他基本上並沒有排除這個法定繼承人因為我們149沒有如果沒有去修的話"},{"start":5107.152,"end":5118.758,"text":"他又沒有修碼 使用的穩定的見解就會包括不含繼承人好 那如果說是到次長您的見解您所提出來的這樣一個問題的話是不是其實這可以脫鉤處理你們應該是法務部競訴的可以提出1149條的修正"},{"start":5123.601,"end":5141.871,"text":"而不是說我們現在要刪除了這個已經要準備要啟動刪除兄弟姐妹特留份的規定可是你們現在的說法是說因為我們配合措施沒有完成所以呢這刪除兄弟姐妹特留份的規定不能夠向前行但是以本性來看的話這兩件事情不見得是具有直接的相關當然"},{"start":5142.771,"end":5149.973,"text":"不排除您說的有可能有部分少數的案例會發生如果這樣的話是不是應該法務部反而應該要儘速的提出149條的相關規定的修正對所以我們現在很快速的正在處理當中好那麼看起來就是說是這個跟我們今天之後要推動的刪除特留份規定這個沒有說一定要這個"},{"start":5167.177,"end":5181.294,"text":"整個綁在一起我們還是可以分頭的進行還有另外一個部分就是本席也想再繼續請教的就是事實上這次談到特留份制度的改革當然很重要也是跟我們要尊重未來的個人"},{"start":5182.996,"end":5209.908,"text":"財產就遺產的處分的自主權那麼事實上如果說有預歷遺主的話那麼這個才會有涉及到特留份制度的適用但是呢如果說是從2023年8月份公正法學期刊裡面所當時的有這個實證報告裡面來看其實台灣現在我們人民就是會有意願要去訂立預歷遺主的人基本上人數"},{"start":5210.768,"end":5212.49,"text":"大概每年平均大概會有多少件手上應該沒有資料"},{"start":5235.996,"end":5255.795,"text":"遺囑事實上也不只有認證公正遺囑遺囑有五種的遺囑的方式這個數字可能也會失真不精確這個不知道四百萬有沒有這個資料我保護部是沒有今天我們是沒有帶這些資料來但是本席希望你們之後可以給本席一份"},{"start":5256.475,"end":5281.204,"text":"資料就是至少就是近五年來然後這個經過認證還有公證的預歷遺囑的件數比例大概是多少因為我覺得這個基本上也是有意義的其實現在蠻多人都在還有包含就是我認識的司法實務界的律師或是法官們大家都認為說其實有過於遺囑的這套制度也是必須要進行在進步的改革"},{"start":5281.804,"end":5307.836,"text":"那麼所以如果說可以有更詳細的有關於育立遺囑的數據的話可以幫助我們之後有關於就是遺產和繼承的這個相關的規定的這個修正好那麼之後因為我們待會今天尋答之後我們緊接著可能就會進行這個法條的處理那麼有一些涉及到貢獻份或是特別貢獻份的一些問題或許我們待會還可以再討論好那就是以上謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":5311.445,"end":5312.386,"text":"我們接下來請林倩琦委員詢答"},{"start":5332.711,"end":5355.066,"text":"好 謝謝我們主席翁朝偉本席在今天的這個議題當中那第一個部分我們先想請司法院的我們今天是中廳長嗎請中廳長中廳長那麼本席今天要針對你好針對這個司法體系的這個資訊安全跟各自保護的這個問題來跟您做一個討論"},{"start":5357.968,"end":5364.634,"text":"昨天在高院前法官案件一審宣判他在擔任審判長期間有長達兩年多的時間都是運用了公務電腦的一個系統權限來查詢跟審判沒有關的個人資料高達了134筆"},{"start":5375.544,"end":5389.319,"text":"那麼這個查詢的內容包括他的同事房客還有這個配偶的組織醫師等就是相關案例的這個同事們的一些個資那屬於長期反覆性的一個濫用系統權限的行為那本席這邊強調這個案件除了"},{"start":5392.301,"end":5413.412,"text":"他本身操守的一個問題這個法官本身操守的一個問題那最重要就是制度應該在檢視啦這基本上是一個警訊那畢竟現在資訊化的複雜程度已經超過了2010年代那這樣的行為如果持續兩年沒有能夠被及時發現那代表系統在第一個存取控管"},{"start":5413.792,"end":5441.588,"text":"第二個 異常監測跟第三 內部結合上那需要嚴加把關並持續的一個測定那本席在這邊請教那麼第一個部分是目前司法院的一個資訊系統對於法官跟司法人員的權限查詢是不是要採取還繼續採取這個高度信任然後低度監管的一個設計那還是是不是要依照最小權限原則來進行分級的一個控管"},{"start":5442.168,"end":5464.884,"text":"那例如是不是可以只有限制查詢與審案件直接相關的一個資料那第二個部分是針對這類非案件關鍵查詢的行為是不是有即時的異常警示機制例如頻繁的查詢或者是跨案件的查詢或者是無案號的查詢那有沒有自動觸發警示或者是通報"},{"start":5465.805,"end":5495.165,"text":"那最後一個部分是司法院是不是會定期盤點及外部集合的這個機制那頻率跟標準你們怎麼定定那本席在這邊提醒那這種問題在目前AI跟大數據的時代風險只會越來越高那樣態只會越來越複雜那當資料整合的程度越高那一旦權限被濫用那侵害的除了個人隱私還會有整體的一個司法信任那是不是請您這邊給本席做一個回應"},{"start":5496.226,"end":5511.206,"text":"是 向委員報告雖然這樣一個資訊安全的業務不是我掃家廳來直接承辦不過因為今天你代表了司法院是 但我可以做一個必要的報告就是我擔任過"},{"start":5512.928,"end":5527.419,"text":"台灣高雄少年家事法院的院長也有管理這種資訊安全的這種相關的職責我跟委員報告第一個核發權限的部分是非常嚴格的那除了具有法官身份"},{"start":5528.78,"end":5553.575,"text":"其他以外都是指定特定特定人查核給他葬祕這是第一點那麼第二點就是說那法官查核的部分在這些年來已經變更為每個月都有很詳細逐筆由庭長級的以上去一筆一筆核對他的"},{"start":5554.596,"end":5566.37,"text":"陳辦的案號對不對他所查詢的跟內部資料對不對都一筆一筆查詢那所以你覺得這個案例的發生最主要的關鍵就你這個是在過去以前的查核那麼不那麼嚴謹的時候"},{"start":5570.535,"end":5599.093,"text":"那現在第三部來加入了政風室一起下去查核這是我在108年擔任院長之後我們所制定的制度中央落實到地方我也都照這樣來進行所以現在也會有發現說這個證人你查這個資料怎麼跟你本案沒有什麼關係馬上就進入第二部的檢核而且是前線控制以上是我知道的做一個報告"},{"start":5600.189,"end":5628.327,"text":"那所以你覺得目前在這個檢核的跟查核的這個機制上已經相對比較沒有問題如果說我剛剛說明的是完訂定的檢查檢核標準大家都落實我想很快就發現每個月一定是有庭長科長書記館長還加上政風室資訊室下去聯合查核然後都要報到中央去每一筆主筆"},{"start":5629.96,"end":5649.812,"text":"所以你覺得目前如果真正的問題就是說落實程度對不對所以我想司法院我這邊也提醒一下那如何真正的落實有沒有必要做相關的一個更多的這個培訓或者是需不需要做實務上的一個操演那這個是我提供給你去做一個參考好不好謝謝"},{"start":5651.26,"end":5667.936,"text":"好 那接下來本席要可能請到司法院跟法務部我們次長那麼就針對今天我們談的這個廢除兄弟姐妹特留份的一個相關法案那我們在強化遺囑自由的同時那我們整個制度是不是有準備好"},{"start":5669.037,"end":5696.599,"text":"濫用跟犯罪的一個風險那去年台北地方法院判決了一起重大的案件是有關於不肖業者來勾結警察律師公證人書記官戶籍戶證人員及里長那透過偽造代筆的這個遺囑那詐領了11名獨居往生者的遺產那整個不罰所得高達了1.4億元那麼這個案件令社會很震驚不是"},{"start":5697.119,"end":5710.364,"text":"主要也不是只有金額龐大那整個的犯罪結構基本上滲透了整個司法跟行政體系那包括了有公正資格的律師護證人員警察跟書記官都參與其中"},{"start":5713.605,"end":5735.977,"text":"這整體利用了制度授予的查詢跟認證的權限結果變成了犯罪工具那本席在這邊要請教法務部那麼對於地面私犯罪目前有沒有專責的一個查緝的一個機制那這一類的結合不動產、繼承、護證跟司法程序然後還高度跨領域喔那這樣子的一個特性如果我們再用傳統的這個詐欺案件來處理"},{"start":5739.659,"end":5764.607,"text":"還是說我們已經有建立了跨機關整合的一個偵查模式那麼司法院我這邊請教就是說本案顯示司法人員包括書記官竟然還參與了組織性的犯罪因為這已經是最前線了而且並且利用職權來調閱個資那呼應剛才本席所講的那本席非常關心整個司法院的內控機制那對於民眾治安是不是能夠完全的保障"},{"start":5765.387,"end":5790.545,"text":"那另外對於公證人的一個制度那司法院認為現在的一個監督強度是不是夠那所以這個部分是不是可以先就來兩個單位來做一個討論那我也針對這個公證法第51條那司法院作為公證人的一個監督機關那有怎麼樣的因應的一個措施以上是不是兩個機關你們就前後說明好嗎"},{"start":5790.845,"end":5813.558,"text":"各位報告有關於地面式的案件事實上我們各地檢署陸續也發生過幾件地面式的案件因為這地面式的案件我們也是做一些制度性的檢討我們建立了一個地檢署跟相關的戶證、議證的一個聯繫平台就是一個預警機制我們現在預警機制除了銀行的預警機制銀行端行員發現有一些異常他向我們地檢署建立預警機制之外"},{"start":5815.319,"end":5830.912,"text":"對於地面式的案件我們也跟地政跟戶政機關建立了一個前提的預警機制當這些公務員發現有異常的時候他就可以馬上跟地檢署的窗口聯繫他預警平台就會產生運作來及早偵辦及早蒐證來保全證據"},{"start":5835.774,"end":5861.587,"text":"司法院 向委員報告首先有關法院書記官利用這樣一個專門的帳戶去查核資料去做犯罪這個是一個已經很特殊的個案那基本上書記官不會有權限可以用帳密去查這些資料這些資料是經過三層控管才可以那他應該是"},{"start":5862.668,"end":5884.682,"text":"那一件利用植物然後去跟在我們的科長室裡面在我們查核人裡面他怎麼偷用這個事後來開始所以是個案在實務操作上的一個漏洞就對了所以已經把這個漏洞補起來了已經做了很多查核這個都能盡各項都管制這個是很例外的例外因為沒有一個事關有這種查核的權限沒有"},{"start":5887.504,"end":5904.978,"text":"所以至少在制度上目前是你們覺得相對是完整的這當然就是在對岸的一個實務上產生了一些破洞對好那本席就提出來就針對這樣一個組織性可能請兩個單位都要做一些注意是"},{"start":5905.859,"end":5934.778,"text":"好 謝謝那最後這邊一個有關於數位遺產的民法訂定跟法制的一個精進那這邊其實也跟我們的遺產有一點關係所以我先提出來做一個提醒就是數位資產包括社群帳號雲端資料跟加密的一個貨幣會形成數位遺產那麼目前我們對數位遺產的法律定位好像還不明那首先在民法體系上那數位遺產究竟是什麼樣子的權利那是不是一律都可以作為繼承的一個標的那目前有沒有明確的規範"},{"start":5935.959,"end":5964.378,"text":"那麼學界有認為那個財產性質可以類推來適用民法的一個相關規定但是這種類推適用在實務上好像有點不太確定所以本席在這邊請教法務部那法務部對於數位遺產的一個法律性質的有沒有一個明確的見解那還是要透過修法或解釋來將繼承遺產體系當中民文化那麼實務上的障礙是不是也來在網路服務業者也有一些實務上的障礙"},{"start":5966.14,"end":5980.641,"text":"許多的平台在服務的條款上有直接明訂帳號不得轉讓或繼承那即使法律上承認繼承權實務上到底能不能做那法務部是不是要評估這個強制性的一個最低保障機制"},{"start":5981.041,"end":6004.816,"text":"那最後 法律承認即使法律來承認數位遺產的這個繼承但是如果繼承人沒有辦法取得帳號 密碼或者是這個所謂私密的鑰匙那實際上還是不能處分啦那目前的平台已經提供了一個數位遺產聯絡人或者是紀念帳戶的一個管理的機制但是這些零散的措施那有沒有可能在實際上碰到困難"},{"start":6005.757,"end":6013.061,"text":"所以法律部有沒有在思考來推動一個比較制度化的數位遺囑或預立數位資產處理的一個機制讓民眾在生前也可以來確定他遺產的一個處理方式那本席就藉著今天我們在談特留份也把這個問題提出來做個討論那如果因為時間關係那像你們可不可以把在這個部分的一個作為然後跟時程"},{"start":6033.711,"end":6052.762,"text":"會後送個報告讓本席了解好嗎還是你有很簡短的一個補充有關於數位資產的法律定性到底是物還是債權當然這實務上有不同的爭議當然現在現行民法就這部分民法在制定的時候並沒有就數位資產當時有規範到那至於數位資產的性質那未來我們數發部有那個數位一個專法"},{"start":6059.306,"end":6080.073,"text":"它也許會定性它這個數位資產的性質是為何所以您所提到的數位輿組的部分電子輿組的部分那我們剛才提到我們整個計程片都在修正包括翁委員上次也有提到就有關輿組是不是要電子化類似這種輿組的這個立輿組的方式現行的五種輿組方式要不要創立第六種這都可以未來都會在修法中會再來討論的"},{"start":6081.173,"end":6102.446,"text":"好的謝謝法務部那司法院是不是如果有沒有要及時回應的那如果沒有就會後的一個相關報告我想對這部分的話可以做一個研究報告也希望你們在這個會期結束之前可以先至少提個你們的大概的政策方向然後讓我們委員會這邊知道好嗎好好謝謝謝謝林委員好那接下來我們請林培祥委員發言"},{"start":6121.584,"end":6137.674,"text":"好 謝謝主席首先我想請教內政部請內政部專委張專委你好"},{"start":6140.308,"end":6157.336,"text":"內政部長期掌握台灣最真實的人口跟家庭結構數據那單身人口持續上升頂客族成為常態少子化跟高齡化同時發生家庭的樣貌早已經不再是過去這種所謂大家族共同生活的形態"},{"start":6157.996,"end":6183.075,"text":"我想這應該不只是說我們全民都有感覺到或甚至講全民共識那內政部應該比我們更清楚這樣的樣貌那我就想請問內政部在你們所掌握的這些趨勢之下現行兄弟姊妹仍享有特留份的制度設計還真的符合今天台灣的社會現實嗎當一個人一生努力累積的財產"},{"start":6183.715,"end":6205.603,"text":"在身後卻未必能完全依照他的意志來去做分配這樣的制度是否能符合現代社會對於財產自主跟遺主自由的期待呢內政部應該是擁有最完整的真實數據但我要誠懇的是說政策不能一天到晚只留在描述現實必須要回應現實"},{"start":6206.923,"end":6224.157,"text":"所以我要在這邊進一步先請教內政部內政部是否願意將這些結構變遷轉化成修法的明確立場還是說內政部還是單純的把這個數據只是留在所謂的統計報告而不願意跨出所謂政策表態的那一步呢"},{"start":6226.893,"end":6253.838,"text":"如果是針對嫂子的話還有兄弟姊妹這個部分因為我代表地政司啦那這個戶政司的資料就是說如果有需要這些比較統計數據可能要會後再請戶政司那邊提供那至於今天本案針對兄弟姊妹這個特留份的部分因為內政部如果針對不動產登記的部分我們是依循民法的規定所以今天討論的結果其實我們就會支持法務部的政策跟大院的立場這樣"},{"start":6254.858,"end":6259.822,"text":"好 那謝謝政委 政委請回再來就有請法務部 我們請黃次長麻煩了好 請黃次長"},{"start":6263.227,"end":6291.376,"text":"委員好市長好上上個禮拜我在委員會已經詢問過這個問題了當時部長的回應是繼承偏修法牽涉範圍很大需要整體檢討那這句話老實講聽起來很周全也很謹慎但是我也要很坦白的說與時俱進很重要如果沒有具體時程我那時候問說這個會期有沒有機會他說我們努力看看那時候我第一我記得第一時間部長的回應說今年"},{"start":6292.256,"end":6317.807,"text":"那我會認為說這個可能會不會對於說有這方面困擾的民眾可能這已經不會是少數是否有點可惜啦如果沒有具體時程這樣的說法很容易變成改革停滯的理由因為社會在變如果法律一直還停在總體檢討那就不是審慎而是落後今天我要特地很清楚的指出兄弟姊妹特留份是一個可以單獨處理的議題"},{"start":6319.588,"end":6345.673,"text":"他並不然一定要綁在整部繼承篇的全體修正之下更不應該因為整體工程浩大而讓已經具備社會討論基礎的議題被無限延後所以我在這裡具體來就教法務部是否願意將兄弟姊妹特留份單獨抽離優先提出修法版本第二是否已經還是一樣期程期程期程是否已經有明確的時程規劃還是"},{"start":6348.214,"end":6362.903,"text":"我們還是在原則性的討論當中好 各位報告我們可以在這邊明確的說我們就這個計程片其實要修正法條非常多我們整個立法的政策方向就是兄弟姐妹特留份的部分我們單獨把它抽離出來單獨的完整修法"},{"start":6363.323,"end":6378.762,"text":"只是這個修法要不要相關的配套措施這要再研議那只是說立法期程的部分我剛才跟委員報告了我們在四月的中旬即將召開第二次的專家會議我們希望能夠在這個會期結束之前就把法案預告"},{"start":6381.528,"end":6394.095,"text":"謝謝我們次長明確的回答老實說這個議題社會上已經討論非常久了而人民在意的核心也非常簡單我一生所努力得到的財產能不能由我自己來決定"},{"start":6395.916,"end":6413.342,"text":"但很可惜我們在政策回應上面我們常常出現一個問題我們不斷強調制度的複雜性卻沒有直接回應改革的具體進度這樣的回應其實是失焦的人民要的不是再多一份研究報告人民要的是一個清楚的方向跟一個可預成的時期"},{"start":6414.142,"end":6438.212,"text":"那今天我用最後一句話來作為今天整個質詢最後的話語法律的價值不在於它曾經有多完整而是在於它是否能持續回應時代的變遷兄弟姊妹特留份制度是過去設定特定社會結構下的產物但今天的台灣我們已經走到一個需要重新思考個人意志跟家庭關係界限的階段"},{"start":6438.812,"end":6463.5,"text":"因此我在這邊要很明確的呼籲請法務部跟內政部就算內政部今天有關的相關的官員沒有來不過內政部在這邊其實很重要因為整個社會形態的數據跟真實的樣貌內政部在掌握請法務部跟內政部不要再以整體修法作為延宕的理由拿出與時俱進的勇氣回應社會已經形成的共識謝謝"},{"start":6465.592,"end":6480.059,"text":"更為報告其實我們一再強調法國不是支持三族兄弟姊妹特留份只是要有一兩條的配套而已好我們一起努力謝謝好謝謝林沛翔委員那麼接下來我們就有請沈發慧委員詢答好主席我們請次長"},{"start":6495.527,"end":6521.74,"text":"有請次長我也好次長好我想說早上到現在的整個詢問過程大概其實整個我們有關於這個這個繼承的這個特留份制度兄弟姊妹的部分的討論其實大概我覺得釐清的差不多了那這部分我就想說利用短短時間來大家做一個整理以利於"},{"start":6522.64,"end":6536.892,"text":"如果今天要進入主條討論的話最後的立法結果我想這部分來做溝通剛剛很多委員都提到其實這個特留份的制度設計本來現代民法的精神本來就是"},{"start":6540.114,"end":6557.747,"text":"私有財產權神聖不可侵犯是私有財產所以遺主自由原本是我的財產我死後才要怎麼分配是我遺主自由我個人意志的展現但是就是因為基於他有一些這個這個有關於這個繼承人一些基本的權益"},{"start":6558.627,"end":6570.697,"text":"或者是這個至少享有一定成立的程度的保障生活保障的情況之下他設計了一個橫貧制度在遺產自由跟這個跟這個繼承人基本權益之間的一個橫貧特留分設計本來就是這樣子"},{"start":6573.559,"end":6597.751,"text":"那當初我們所謂特留份哪些人會有特留份他其實跟這個這個第114條的這個撫養義務其實他是有關聯的就是說你在親屬片裡面你父有撫養義務所以因為這個所謂特留份他就有一種所謂死後撫養的這種性質就死後死後撫養性質所以大家會互付"},{"start":6599.279,"end":6616.199,"text":"互付撫養義務我生前有對你有撫養義務那你死後我有這個死後的撫養大概這樣的精神那現在所以過去的立法裡面會這樣子立法他就是因為這樣那當然剛剛前面我也提到就是你現在是一個社會"},{"start":6617.02,"end":6644.108,"text":"形態的改變所以在當初早期的立法其實不只是我們台灣的這個民法其實所有很多大陸法系的國家都有這種兄弟姊妹特留份的設計但是因為家庭形態改變導致現在產生一大堆很多的這個諸多的這種案例引起社會的非議就是說可能平常兄弟姊妹也沒有在互相撫養那也沒有甚至根本就沒有聯繫那影響再加上這個"},{"start":6645.268,"end":6652.001,"text":"現在少子化的這個家庭這個家庭結構的變遷甚至很多就沒有子女的他們這些所謂高齡配偶"},{"start":6653.748,"end":6681.936,"text":"的這個生活保障他卻受到完全互不相似的互不往來的這個這個被繼承人的兄弟姊妹來要求這個影響到他的居住權等等相關的這樣子的配套問題所以今天才有這樣討論那我看今天有這麼多的草案其實這個我們過去其實105年我們105年的時候我們有法務部有提過一個整個這個特留份的整個調整的修正草案"},{"start":6682.876,"end":6698.364,"text":"那時候的修正草案其實不只是兄弟姊妹其實連配偶你們整個都有做這個比例的調整下降了把特留份的比例做下降這是當年的這個修法的精神但是因為你那個當年的修法牽涉到配偶的這個"},{"start":6700.186,"end":6713.444,"text":"這個特留份的降低這也引起了這個社會這個婦女團體的一些疑慮那在這樣的爭議之下所以當年就在屆期不連續的情況之下就擱置了你們也沒有再提了"},{"start":6715.23,"end":6729.054,"text":"那今天我看到這樣看起來我算是二十案併成這個二十個都是委員提案沒有法務部的版本那二十案併成裡面我們今天就要針對這個二十個委員的提案來進行這個逐條討論要經過完成修法程序"},{"start":6734.83,"end":6762.32,"text":"這樣子我就看一下這20案其實這20案並不是都一樣的其實裡面是有差別的各個委員的提案不太一樣最多的最單純的就是直接就把兄弟姊妹的特留份刪除了這個我看是最多委員提案就是直接刪除看起來很單純那這個另外一種形態他是這個也有委員的提案他除了兄弟姊妹刪除以外祖父母也給他刪除了也有這樣子的提案"},{"start":6764.577,"end":6786.426,"text":"另外還有提案是把放進日本人的貢獻份的概念就是把限縮兄弟姊妹特留份的增加一些要件增加他的謀生能力還有他是不是有撫養事實這樣子的增加這些要件這也是一種修法"},{"start":6786.966,"end":6800.238,"text":"再加上我們法務部105年的版本這個是直接降低比例簡單講就是針對兄弟姊妹特留份的調整大概就這四個方向都有法案在"},{"start":6804.508,"end":6831.198,"text":"所以我們如果進入逐條我們就會針對這些法案剛才我們所有法務部的回答都是講說你們其實有在檢討你們也已經有委託學者研究研究報告也已經完成了你們依據這個研究報告現在在召開這個修法的研議會議已經召開了一次對不對那你們希望說召開幾次之後把這個完整的整體的這個版本你們一直強調配套措施"},{"start":6832.378,"end":6851.749,"text":"那大家我想今天如果說要不要在委員會裡面把這個就依照這20個這個修正法案我們就直接通過我想最關鍵的就是你們所謂的配套到底重不重要到底這配套是整套一起修比較好還是說我們今天就單獨這個先刪除了配套你們以後再來這大概就今天大概就只有這兩種選擇這兩種選擇"},{"start":6854.403,"end":6880.75,"text":"那這個所以我們就應該要來看說是整個你們所謂的配套到底有哪一些有哪一些配套這部分是不是要請市長你剛剛因為這個東扯一點西扯一點有講到貢獻份有講到這個這個這個撫養義務有講到甚至講到這個這個這個遺產的這個佐給的制度這些你是不是稍微簡短但是完整的提到有哪些配套你們要做"},{"start":6881.73,"end":6892.037,"text":"更為報告一旦全部刪除了兄弟姊妹的特留份之後呢那兄弟姊妹萬一他生前這個兄弟姊妹他消極的被撫養"},{"start":6894.098,"end":6906.763,"text":"這時候要不要給他一些遺產著給消極的被撫養第二狀況他是積極的撫養這個被繼承人他有貢獻他對財產的增加對被害的這個被繼承人有貢獻這要不要給他貢獻份從消極面積極面未來整個一個貢獻份一個就是這個著給遺產著給這兩個嘛你們提到這兩個配套"},{"start":6920.109,"end":6940.427,"text":"另外有一個剛才大家沒有提到就是我剛才有稍微提到就是在日本的修法日本在2019年修法他們特別針對現在的這個社會形態少子化高齡者居住的形態他們特別設計了這個所謂配合居住權的保障設計"},{"start":6941.668,"end":6959.215,"text":"這樣的配偶居住權保障設計我覺得如果說配偶如果說配套我認為說這應該要放在配套裡面來一起一併檢討一併修法啦就是不要說到現在的狀況就是老夫老妻兩個人住結果配偶"},{"start":6960.225,"end":6975.839,"text":"死亡被繼承那我只有這個房子住但是因為這個特留份我就要來分配這個我可能所有財產只有這棟房子就要來分配這棟房子的所有權導致我整個他連居住的地方都沒有或者甚至如果繼續繼續居住要幾戶"},{"start":6978.861,"end":7006.018,"text":"給付這個不當得利的這些金錢所以為了解決這個問題日本才有這樣子的所謂配偶保障配偶居住權的這個這個部分我們在現在的研擬裡面有沒有包括這個部分各位報告這個研究報告裡面其實有建議要增修這部分那我們現在的研擬對 我們整個計程片有包括這部分但是因為立法的啟程我們現在三階段這部分我會放在後面階段我們等一下先把特留份那部分先拿出來單獨先抽出來立法好 所以"},{"start":7007.839,"end":7032.859,"text":"你們所謂的配現在所謂說希望給你們時間有配套的部分還不包括沒有包括配偶居住權因為你如果包括這個配偶居住權可能就它修的就很大了配偶居住權可能要單獨成為一張而且那是我們國家現行沒有的制度要創製的制度那這部分這個我希望說這個我們在整個配套"},{"start":7035.161,"end":7062.051,"text":"這個它是第二階段但是我覺得非常重要在現在我拿掉這個兄弟姊妹特留份等等相關的配套我覺得這個部分是重要的配套這個要一併考量那所有這些這些我們剛剛大概都談了你們所謂的配套大概就是這些東西但是大家更關心的就是說那你們研擬了那麼久你們到底什麼時候可以提出來"},{"start":7063.478,"end":7081.099,"text":"我剛剛一再回覆幾個委員我們希望在本會議結束之前把法案完成預告提出預告那可能時程就跟本委員會的期待就有點落差了因為我跟委員報告我們現在這個4月其實4月了我們現在要召開第二次會議"},{"start":7082,"end":7104.323,"text":"那會期結束大概五六月嘛其實你們也可以再拖個兩年就在我們民法實施百年的時候做一個整個民法的整體配套的整個修改也可以啊再過兩年就我們民法就實施一百年啊那你也可以拖到那個時候啊不會 不然我也不會拖啦但是你如果說你們希望說在這個會期結束之前才是提出預告而已那可能跟"},{"start":7105.336,"end":7116.759,"text":"本委會的期待會有點落差我是希望說你們不只是在本會期結束之前提出法案送到立法院來我甚至希望如果"},{"start":7117.697,"end":7135.499,"text":"如果這個在刪除兄弟姊妹的這個特留份的部分在本委員會如果等一下逐條審查有高度共識那我甚至希望如果說今天保留條文你們能夠在保留協商完成之前把這個法案提出來這樣子就有機會在這次整個立法過程裡面一併討論"},{"start":7136.62,"end":7156.6,"text":"因為總是這個制度的變革你們沒有一個官方的態度也很奇怪我完全贊成那委員也清楚知道我們的法案預告完成之後要送行政院審查還會嫌司法院再送到大院他有一定的立法的一個期程程序所以現在在會期結束前只剩下這會期大概剩兩三個月這個期程因為他還要行政院審查會嫌司法院"},{"start":7161.124,"end":7184.384,"text":"這是要匯錢的法案這部分如果你們趕不及那很有可能很有可能就我們就直接就刪除就直接刪除兄弟姊妹的特留份其他配套你們自己再再去再去再去趕路了變成這樣子了我這樣子這樣的立法我個人會覺得會有點缺憾會留下遺憾就是說你這個修法你們一個連官方版本都沒有一個制度的變革連連個官方態度"},{"start":7187.247,"end":7194.483,"text":"都沒有展現我是覺得不是很妥當這部分我們就等一下留到主條討論的時候大家來看看是不是能夠有共識"},{"start":7197.174,"end":7222.156,"text":"好 謝謝沈委員剛剛沈委員也有提出希望法務部的腳步要加快我們因為也發現其實這幾個會期我們立法院 市委會這邊積極推動的法案可是法務部都沒有提對岸或是至少我希望這個法案在協商的時候你們也可以提出一些你們的想法 好不好好 接下來我們請有請范雲委員發言 謝謝"},{"start":7226.431,"end":7227.014,"text":"謝謝 有請黃次長有請黃次長"},{"start":7233.154,"end":7257.972,"text":"市長您好主要今天也想跟您討論一個跟民法的修法相關的議題就是離婚的相關法規特別是贍養費的部分那我想你們在去年2月行政院就有通過法務部的版本2005年9月行政院司法院經會嫌送立法院代審議"},{"start":7259.353,"end":7278.13,"text":"那我想這個修法的重點那我也要肯定你們就是提出你們的版本那你也可以看到我從上一屆當立委就開始推動要完善離婚後的經濟保障制度那不只是來我們司法法制會質詢過那當時希望你們能夠往"},{"start":7281.192,"end":7305.585,"text":"善養費不只是撫養費的方向修那我也跟婦女團體一起開記者會希望能夠修法支持經濟的弱勢女性在離婚後的處境那這邊你可以看到我去年六月就提出我的版本裡面大概有兩個重點第一個是要把善養費的意義轉化為婚姻生活的補償金"},{"start":7307.166,"end":7325.315,"text":"第二個是職業年金也應該納入離婚的分配請求權的範圍從我的角度來看你們的願板事實上是有三個突破你看右邊的線型條文如果要領到贍養費真的非常非常的困難"},{"start":7326.135,"end":7353.318,"text":"主要是因為1057條寫的無過失之一方應判決離婚而限於生活困難者他方重無過失應給贍養費這跟全世界很多國家比基本上台灣是請不到的因為法官對於什麼叫做限於生活困難者是給一個非常嚴格的定義那至少這個你們突破了你看左邊是你們的版本"},{"start":7354.119,"end":7367.637,"text":"已經改成因離婚而生活陷於困難或有一個或於離婚時就業能力已減損或就業機會減少者所以我覺得這意義有三個第一個不只是無過失能請領贍養費"},{"start":7369.62,"end":7389.361,"text":"也不只是判決離婚能請領贍養費,那他也包含因為婚姻、生育、家庭、減少就業機會、職壓、發展、經濟能力的弱勢配偶,他有機會請領贍養費這是我肯定的部分,但是我覺得你們有未盡之處"},{"start":7390.962,"end":7404.596,"text":"就是如果你不移除生活限於困難這個要件可能會有一些問題以下不是我說的婦女薪資基金會有蒐集近百個相關的例子還做訪談他發現大概85%的律師不會建議當事人請求贍養費"},{"start":7410.842,"end":7430.101,"text":"主要的原因就是當事人不會符合生活限於困難那請求失敗的案例中有請求的大部分律師都不會希望就是他的當事人請求在請求的例子中就是主要都是因為法官認為請求人沒有限於生活之困難"},{"start":7431.107,"end":7450.906,"text":"也就是說你留著這個生活陷於困難幾乎根本不會符合然後去請求了也不會成功十年間 次長你看一下十年間中華民國去請求的我們都不要算沒有請求的只有21件 21個人領到"},{"start":7453.769,"end":7466.719,"text":"所以那個次長為了21個可以領到的你留這個文字在這裡可能會產生很大的問題喔這個不是婦女心之題的是2020年喔就是其他的人所做的研究"},{"start":7468.371,"end":7486.889,"text":"所以我今天就是也再告訴你一個具體的例子譬如說這個原告主張年事已高患有慢性病女兒自顧不暇而且訴訟費用龐大生活已陷於困難他請求的善養費多少不是幾百萬幾千萬其實是八十萬"},{"start":7488.11,"end":7503.768,"text":"結果法院認為他雖然慢性病沒有減損工作的能力每個月子女還奉養他兩萬多元就沒有幫他請求就是因為子女有養他兩萬多這是一個實質上在研究裡面的"},{"start":7504.761,"end":7530.473,"text":"所以到底要不要把限於生活困難刪除我認為就實證上十年來至少只有21個人法院判可以 你乾脆把它刪除以免律師們的經驗你留在那裡基本上就會讓法官認為很有這個機會其實更不利於法官往另外一邊判"},{"start":7531.613,"end":7555.743,"text":"那這是第一個我要講的是你們的版本的未竟之功那第二個未竟之功是什麼善養費如果是對於婚姻的補償不是限於困難為什麼就是一個離婚的人如果我們假設他多數的時候比較是女性為多實證上他後來遇到好的對象他要再婚就會失去善養費的這個權利"},{"start":7560.56,"end":7589.754,"text":"那不知道就是說他再婚也可能遇到一個很貧窮的人不是說再婚就能夠遇到一個經濟能力相當的所以再婚為什麼就會使得一個曾經對婚姻有貢獻的人他之後本來有判得贍養費之後就沒有了那這個基本上不是限就是離婚的女性或者他也可能會是男性就是限制他有"},{"start":7590.234,"end":7607.779,"text":"新的幸福跟選擇的可能嗎那我覺得這是一個非常不合理的那我也沒有辦法看到有其他的國家有這樣的規定那最後一個就是軍公教那我知道從2017年起軍人公務人員公立學校教職員政務人員退休金"},{"start":7608.419,"end":7634.769,"text":"都已經陸續納入離婚分配請求範圍而且事實上我國的職業年金高度反映勞動市場的成就所以應該要把職業年金納入離婚分配的範圍那這是我覺得應該要做的那再來就是也給您看一下現判字第四號就是說修法明文規定合理提高他方配偶請求夫妻善於財產分配之比例"},{"start":7635.729,"end":7659.098,"text":"這是112年的憲判字第四號,明文這麼寫我們台灣簽署的CDO也很清楚的講第44段、45段、47段都告訴大家要肯定配偶就是他因為照顧家庭家務所失去的經濟機會還有他的無形對家庭的非經濟的貢獻"},{"start":7661.139,"end":7679.375,"text":"這個部分都應該要放入所以國家報告還很明確說你們這個民法就是要使所有職業中都有配偶年金分配權然後國際審查來台灣的時候建議我們政府考慮取消生活陷入困難作為善養費的條件"},{"start":7681.757,"end":7702.93,"text":"所以他直接就叫你們把這個刪掉了這是CEDAW的國際專家的意見那部長我現在的要求很簡單啦你不用現在答應我你是不是可以去研議因為我知道你們已經準備好了我剛剛有肯定過基本上有些部分做到了可不可以再考慮移除生活限於困難再婚不能領贍養肺還有職業年金納入離婚財產分配這三點以盡全功好嗎我們司法法是還沒審查希望"},{"start":7710.754,"end":7739.255,"text":"那你這多久可以給我報告跟委員說明一下啦因為這個法案司法委員未來會審查嘛最後委員剛剛提幾個問題我先簡單的回應關於第一項移除現有困難的部分我們又是知道這個問題所以我們構成要件裡面增加了選項這邊剛剛委員提到的選項不限於這個選項10年內只有12個我知道那不排除BC選項啊沒有 律師說你留在那裡法官就會往他倒非常的不利他的構成要件是或"},{"start":7739.875,"end":7754.891,"text":"如果他這麼容易的話你可不可以告訴我10年內為什麼只有這麼少的依賴以前沒有這個要件以前只有限於這個生活困難這個要件所以他能成立的機率少沒有我現在講的是另外一邊當然有開放了嘛可是你擺在那邊10年間也只有21件"},{"start":7757.173,"end":7771.661,"text":"那為什麼不乾脆就把它刪掉呢那個CITO的專家他們對這方面是性別平等跟離婚是專家他們都建議我們直接刪除那您現在不用回答我可不可以再去研議啊當然我們會來討論啦我們委員會的時候可以來討論可不可以先研議再告訴我你們的專業看法好嗎好我現在請你研議這三點因為今天時間不夠了我沒有辦法在這邊就是跟您進行答辯好不好"},{"start":7785.669,"end":7809.936,"text":"那多久可以給我這個報告一個月一個月好不好一個月好要儘快喔因為我們知道司法法制會不會隨時突襲拍攝好OK謝謝是謝謝范雲委員那麼我們先做會議程序的宣告待會在莊瑞雄委員詢答完畢之後呢我們就休息五分鐘好然後再繼續詢答好有請莊委員"},{"start":7817.887,"end":7822.932,"text":"謝謝 請法務部黃柏信次長好 請次長還有我們中廳長嗎我看也只是次長你而已次長 其實這個問題這個大家可以"},{"start":7832.83,"end":7856.276,"text":"平心靜氣把整個法制讓它更完備那我想針對這整個廢除兄弟姊妹特留份這樣的一個議題社會上討論也非常熱烈那今天翁小玲招委排這樣的一個議程我也表達非常的一個欽佩那其實在不同政黨之間差異其實不大"},{"start":7856.994,"end":7882.528,"text":"大家在等的就是說那你們的版本什麼時候會出來涉及到這整個重大制度的一個變革總不可能行政部門這邊一個國家沒有你們的角色這也好奇怪你像譬如說這個議題大家都在講的就是說你到底一個兄弟姊妹之間的特留分你要把它廢除的話在講的問題就只有一個就是說這個被繼承人"},{"start":7883.248,"end":7903.885,"text":"我生錢我賺了很多錢累積下很多的一個財產我是不是可以完全的自由來處分就是在講這個問題而已嗎結果變成他被特留份給限制住了尤其社會只要碰到說這個常常我這個被犧牲人我財產要自由處分的時候跑出毫無貢獻的或者沒有往來的這些兄弟姐妹出來了以後大家會覺得說哎喲阿開"},{"start":7905.606,"end":7926.566,"text":"真的應該照顧被繼承人在還沒有死亡之前真正照顧的是他或者說他心有所屬要遺產也是他要跑出這些兄弟姊妹出來也許大家會覺得說尊重當事人財產所有權人這些被繼承財產怎麼樣去做處分的問題可是本席倒也有一個想法啦"},{"start":7926.986,"end":7954.458,"text":"我今天也看了司法院的一些報告裡面我也看到說你像譬如說我們兄弟姐妹在這個繼承的順序裡面第三順位嘛那你第三順位像譬如說你我們要去把它做刪除的話那祖父母的部分它又是第四順位第三順位你把它刪除那你第四順位它又留在那裡這個好像又在法理上啊"},{"start":7955.444,"end":7974.343,"text":"市長你會不會覺得有點奇怪我個人都覺得有點奇怪那剛很多委員也提到說像日本這個像仿造其他國家的有特別貢獻的部分甚至還配偶居住權的部分我昨天跟我辦公室專門在討論這個問題那個問題越衍生越來越大"},{"start":7980.95,"end":7984.444,"text":"真的是只有如果真正要修法真的只有這一條而已嗎你說1138"},{"start":7987.08,"end":8015.498,"text":"繼承的部分順序的部分你不需要重新再考量嗎1144的部分你都不要去重新考量嗎或者配偶的順序的部分你是不是也要適當的去做一個安排那這個啊我相信這個議題喔這個議題社會上現在看到的只是說以現在的法制限制了被繼承人處分財產的自由的一個意志但我總覺得說這個議題最後啊可能會通過但是呢"},{"start":8016.306,"end":8030.228,"text":"行政部門 我覺得黃市長應該是你的立法的方向跟法務部真正的一個態度 你最後的版本是怎麼樣或者說有沒有更周延的設計"},{"start":8031.823,"end":8050.962,"text":"我擔心的是這個啦 你如果有應該要快點撤出來啦然後呢 不過差這幾個月啦 我們大家差不多都有共識啦社會有這個呼聲 那確實有的國家也認為根本就沒有兄弟姊妹的特留份的規定啊我們去把它刪除掉也沒有什麼啦 社會開始有那種變化嘛我如果說那一代喔 差不多還站在一起才是大家庭啦"},{"start":8057.909,"end":8082.879,"text":"這就變成說 以前的農業社會本來就是大家庭啊那像這個19年修的 在中國大陸那邊修的民法當初的社會背景 社會環境包括農業社會嘛 都把大家做得出來你看現在有好多技師工業的分散在各地的財產為什麼當初會有這樣那就是要娶大家嘛 要娶大家以前大家庭 沒有人在搬家"},{"start":8084.605,"end":8112.574,"text":"我的爺爺那一代 我爺爺到最後他不曉得幾歲他才跟我的叔公 伯公 爺公 伯公那些都是大家庭 到最後大家分居了大家分一塊給他做大家去分居 怎麼說 國語叫什麼那也不是分居 分居好像是配偶的意思可是當年的分居就是一個大家庭分出去了 你去獨立了"},{"start":8114.415,"end":8137.58,"text":"那以前大家彼此會互相照顧 變成小家庭了那現在社會又改變了 改變到最後連子女都不跟父母親住了那當然累積到最後的一個財產 跟過去的社會裡面說唉呦 你可能生前大家兄弟姊妹要互相照顧連這個兄弟姊妹死掉以後"},{"start":8138.94,"end":8157.411,"text":"弟弟會照顧哥哥或者哥哥照顧弟弟有一方死亡以後還輪流要掃掃去照顧那一個家庭過去的社會是如此可是現在就突然這樣的一個變革以後兄弟姐妹的感情當然跟以前又不太一樣了所以這個變革是可以接受但是"},{"start":8158.231,"end":8171.427,"text":"我都聽起來我都擔擔啦確實有其他委員提到的特殊貢獻的部分那確實那個有道理啊我也認為那個有道理啊可是現行法制就沒有這個東西啊所以把它放進來又是對的"},{"start":8173.627,"end":8196.961,"text":"這個本席都可以表達贊同啊像譬如說大家要學我們來學日本那個配偶的居住權的部分留給他看起來又是合理啊可是簽一法又動全身啊你那個又不是那個具備除非你把它我們把它定性成他具備有優先權啊否則你給他你給他也沒有用啊只要有兩個兄弟姊妹在的你說要有配偶有那個居住權"},{"start":8202.307,"end":8224.5,"text":"只要兄弟姊妹他是占大多數我告訴他 我要賣給別人就好因為他是共同共有啊我共有人我又超過一半啊我們兩個是兄弟姊妹我跟翁偉我們兩個是兄妹就是我們兩個說不然按照居住權的設計的話是要給媽媽住的給配偶住的我們兩個就把他給賣掉啦看你要不要買啊 你不買"},{"start":8226.516,"end":8248.77,"text":"你不買我們就真的把它給賣掉了所以我倒認為這一部法制的一個變革牽一法而動全身特殊貢獻的部分本席也贊同居住權我也贊同你說刪除掉的人社會也有這樣的一個呼聲因為環境改變了可是我們不可能真的只有修一個條文所以這個時候就期待法務部你們真的重大變革的時候你們不能缺席"},{"start":8253.857,"end":8269.346,"text":"我從這個議題在司法法治委員在討論的時候民進黨都開放的太多了我看其他政黨也開放我認為法務部你也是開放啊司法院也是開放啊可是你們不能開放到最後沒有角色啊"},{"start":8270.256,"end":8291.611,"text":"所以我覺得可惜的地方 次長你簡單給我回應一下涉及到重大的一個變革到底是完全尊重被繼承人他自己對他財產的處分權或者說你制度要去修改的時候你其他的配套要不要上來像我剛剛提到的部分你既然兄弟姐妹是第三順位你要把它刪除掉那第四順位的 那更不用講啦"},{"start":8293.135,"end":8316.689,"text":"這不是這樣說,所以請麻煩你回應跟委員報告,我們絕對支持也贊同剛剛委員講的就是說,制度的設計它一定要有相關的配套那特留份的制度它有它的歷史因素嘛到目前為止,大多數的委員贊成這個刪除兄弟緣特留份的這個立法架構基本上這個架構本方向我們是贊成的"},{"start":8316.929,"end":8346.849,"text":"只是在架構底下我們剛剛提到要有配套如同委員剛剛提到的這個貢獻份還有包括配偶的居住權像日本他甚至配偶居住權他有優先權在電條件他可是可以有優先權的設計這個台灣是沒有的所以我是贊成所以本部一直立場是說在這個刪除特留兄弟姐妹特留份的架構底下要有B法條C法條或更外圍的配套來支撐刪除後的產生的社會的一些一些權益的互相的一個平衡"},{"start":8347.97,"end":8374.347,"text":"所以我也在這邊我也跟召委來做一個建議你看我們當召委也很辛苦大家提案每一個人的案子提出來以後今天就算我們去阻調他都當事人都未必提案的委員未必會到我們也沒辦法去幫他們做決定然後行政部門又沒有他的一個版本那可是我們在看不管汪召委或者我我們去看德國的法治看日本的法治居住權 貢獻分我們都認為很合理啊大家都被嚇一嚇沒人來講我們兩個天天做冠軍"},{"start":8377.209,"end":8400.28,"text":"這也好奇怪 所以我一直在講說 一直在追的就是你們的版本真的要趕快出來啦 吃緊弄破好的配套啦 既然大家有這個共識要做 行政部門應該你們也去委託研究啦 委託研究出來大家覺得放進去 你就提出一個版本 不要大家再來把它給捨棄掉"},{"start":8401.62,"end":8423.134,"text":"阿不然林德福委員一個版本我也覺得很有道理賴思寶的我也覺得不錯民進黨的我也覺得不錯阿這三個版本你叫我兩個要怎麼算要不然把它湊一湊放進去這整個法制又不對所以我建議法務部你們真的要擔當起這樣的一個責任這個是一個制度的一個重大變革立法會會支持"},{"start":8423.894,"end":8438.532,"text":"啊但是我們不及這一時啦你給他弄主條規要怎麼主條啊也是都送出去所有的版本全部都送進去不然又要用誰的版本沒有你們的版本啊個別委員的都沒有全部放進去那我們都覺得又還不錯"},{"start":8439.617,"end":8458.908,"text":"那這邊要怎麼處理所以我期待市長你們法務部的版本什麼時候可以出來我剛多次說明就是我在這個會議結束之前我們會進行預告這個會議結束我們就差不多剩2個月時間我們因為還要研修嘛完成之後就預告你們加快啦不然在立法院裡面"},{"start":8460.817,"end":8468.845,"text":"國會的研究室是很專業沒有錯啦可是最後畢竟是國會議員在審在主條的時候國會議員在審嘛你總是要有一個比較完整的版本給大家來做一個參考這樣大家審理的時候比較不會淡淡啦因為立法委員來自不同的領域"},{"start":8480.397,"end":8502.793,"text":"並不是每一個人都是法律專家方方面面該去顧及到整個法制面會不會產生酣格或者說應該怎麼樣的一個配套才更合理的您說出來之後大家共同成就一件事嘛 好不好好 謝謝 希望這樣子 謝謝好 謝謝莊稍委那麼我們就依照之前的會議宣告現在先休息五分鐘 待會再繼續"},{"start":9030.54,"end":9038.328,"text":"好 現在繼續開會接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員不在鄭振淺委員不在洪孟凱委員不在張志倫委員不在接下來我們有請謝龍介委員詢答"},{"start":9066.369,"end":9079.788,"text":"主席 我要請他出場一下好 請次長主席 我請教你喔 辛苦啊三位弟喔算長嘛齁"},{"start":9082.014,"end":9090.925,"text":"你有沒有去投行、分臨、雇傭?去欠債有嗎?聯合稽查你欠債什麼?就是物價看有沒有壟斷或豐台什麼壟斷?"},{"start":9098.453,"end":9123.009,"text":"壟斷就是我們公民交易法上面有一些聯合行為的壟斷那你如果發現有人異常囤貨在壟斷的時候你怎麼處理這看有行政上的處理跟行事上的處理行政上的處理就是行政主管機關他會進行如果有的話會進行採訪如果有刑事案件的話我們就會發交給地檢署去做他壟斷了嘛他已經壟斷了囤貨了你要行事上怎麼處理"},{"start":9124.695,"end":9129.498,"text":"公民交易法他要行政機關先進行相關的裁罰,制止相關的裁罰你不用請他去調查,他就壟斷啦,你看啊,封台物價,不然你們是在欺負什麼"},{"start":9143.783,"end":9155.869,"text":"要不然叫行政機關去裁判,卡到你們去扣債,那你就在作秀啊不一定,它如果涉及到有可能刑法251條有囤積拘獲這條罪它有可能會涉及刑事犯罪251條是什麼囤積積持這個犯罪251條是說意圖抬高交易價格嘛,囤積嘛對無證當理由則處三年以下有期徒刑嘛對"},{"start":9171.874,"end":9176.53,"text":"然後這是三十萬法科這裡面有三款是什麼"},{"start":9179.059,"end":9203.649,"text":"就是你囤積的物品 他要限定這三款囤積什麼物品啊第一個第一款當然就是相關的飲食物品 第二個是這個原料糧食 農產品或其他民生必須之飲食物品嘛 沒錯這第一阿塑膠底要感謝這位嗎 這當然不是 不是第二 種苗 肥料 原料或其他農業 工業必須之物品嘛 對塑膠底要感謝"},{"start":9205.968,"end":9226.621,"text":"塑膠袋本身不是,它有可能會有個原料的問題塑膠袋不是嘛塑膠袋不是,那第三前兩款以外經行政院公告之生火必須用品如果這樣,塑膠袋應該是屬於這條吧這個要等行政院公告好,要等行政院公告"},{"start":9227.642,"end":9251.141,"text":"那請問你行政院有公告嗎?這部分行政院院會已經有決議就要請經濟部來報告行政院他有公告嗎?目前還沒有我感覺你們真的是無農無地無稻為了一個塑膠袋民間沒有風台你們自己就先風台啊你就衝到人心惶惶吼 吼 吼 吼 吼 吼 吼我問你現在去大賣場什麼人沒辦法拿到塑膠袋啊"},{"start":9257.492,"end":9281.243,"text":"行政院他也沒有公告那上次衛生紙在烘台也沒有看到行政院公告啊行政院有史也到今天有公告哪一項是民生必需品要杜絕這個囤貨烘台物價有沒有我查是沒有啊口罩沒有公告啊"},{"start":9282.465,"end":9295.44,"text":"應該有吧 應該有公告啊有公告嗎行政院有公告這是生活必需用品嗎你不可以囤積嘛他是直接徵收啊他哪有公告這我要確認一下你有用251條去給他發到這間你告訴我"},{"start":9300.044,"end":9326.403,"text":"各位報告 事實上我們這個案件 光去年度我們就將近偵辦了一百多件 兩百五十一條偵辦偵辦你有做一條 用了一條 因為你都沒有符合定數 行政院就沒有公告啊當然不只有只有公告 它有三款嘛三款就第一款 第二款不是 第三款就是要行政院公告嘛但我們去查的不只只有說兩百五十一條 那我們立法就是兩百五十一條我就寫在這 你不想贏 行政院也不想遵守"},{"start":9328.203,"end":9353.602,"text":"阿你為什麼要自己民辦阿你違法無辜阿是不是這樣行政醫生是要先講過啦對 各位他有三款啦阿你第一款 第二款不是嘛阿第三款就是要經過行政院公告嘛了解 第二款它是原料 原塑化的原料我們不只只有茶塑膠袋這整個是全面去去查不是只有茶塑膠袋你們現在這樣補下去都是塑膠漏了啦"},{"start":9354.342,"end":9376.251,"text":"我們這個小組跟委員報告 我們不是只有這個塑膠袋它是相關的民生物資 相關的資源 我們都會去做聯合的稽查行政院齁 我現在要跟你講的就是這樣嘛 有法律體驗嘛阿你無敵無告嘛 阿沒要慎用法條嘛然後行政院根本就是陪著做秀嘛 它是只有要做秀而已好 有人在頓 有人在頓結果勒"},{"start":9379.71,"end":9395.764,"text":"他也沒有要講究,他如果今天講究,你怎麼去揭曉大家的違法優遇啊檢察官也違法優遇啊,也可以給他起訴啊他只有251條,他就可以辦啊不是啊,你行政他擺爛啊啊如果正經的,可以不復甦啊對不對,叫你們出來擔啊,五九頭家,八九大罪我告訴你,這個明明你說的251條啊,不是啊"},{"start":9409.83,"end":9421.103,"text":"第一款、第二款真的就不是啊第三款就是要行政院公告啊該當現在已經公告據我所知他們也在進行相關的公告程序"},{"start":9422.153,"end":9447.788,"text":"他沒說過你就沒辦法 你現在去勘測 人家都說你作秀了他不是只有刑法251條 我剛剛講的公民教育法他有可能會涉及公民教育法的行為不是只有行政上的行為公民教育法的刑律 我數你一萬五百名秋秋我一段時間 我的原料 我的勝算 我的告費 我有頂多對不對 這是主要買的買啊"},{"start":9449.548,"end":9461.814,"text":"啊你不是啊 你看補助補什麼 沒人在頓塑膠爐啊 都你政府在頓你政府出一口水在頓 頓到大家百姓都來跟我說啊現在去都沒塑膠爐 我問你 你跟我說做一間賣場沒塑膠爐啊你跟我說 我來跟你處理 每天都有 這樣是誰在頓啊你又去勘測 喔你又 欸 給你連鑼 吼 講鑼講鍋 去人家說要來勘測你再去 王王隊 卓榮泰去陪夢"},{"start":9480.458,"end":9506.338,"text":"姜特姐好謝謝 謝委員那請次長這邊要趕快提醒行政院趕快公告相關的法案好那接下來我們有請張雅琳委員發言謝主席我們有請次長有請次長"},{"start":9511.235,"end":9533.854,"text":"委員好市長好我想今天我有三個問題主要就是有關於這個民法1223條的一個邏輯上面的問題就是說我們在針對民法第1233條我們針對於兄弟姊妹特留份的一些檢討那在現行制度之下兄弟姊妹的排行繼承的順序是排在祖父母前面"},{"start":9534.534,"end":9548.88,"text":"那今天其實有非常多的討論都是在討論刪除兄弟姐妹的一個特留份那我也了解這是因為整個制度的變遷嘛所以現在因應時代的變化所以我們有這樣子的一個刪除但是我想今天我們在刪除兄弟姐妹特留份的時候那"},{"start":9549.6,"end":9572.094,"text":"排行在兄弟姊妹之後的祖父母是不是也應該要一併來刪除呢想請教次長的意見跟我們報告當然委員有提供提供這種版本祖父母部分的特別婚事要刪除但本部的立場是認為祖父母他畢竟是直系血親他跟兄弟姊妹旁立血親他的親入遠近關係還是不同啦另外就是說外國的立法例上其一個祖父母他還是有"},{"start":9572.854,"end":9594.059,"text":"維持他的這個特留分的立法例第三個就是說目前整個我們刪除祖父母特留分的部分社會其實比較少在討論的維持現在的繼承狀態 順位狀態其實在外界沒有太大爭議的話本部是認為這部分先暫時還是維持祖父母的特留分的部分"},{"start":9594.824,"end":9613.16,"text":"好那我自己會認為說因為聽起來就是說他的程序雖然是在後面但是因為今天比較沒有在討論所以我們就先保留聽起來我的解讀好像是這樣就是說祖父母他畢竟是直系血親對但是直系血親上面我們現在還是把他排在順位的後面對不對畢竟你"},{"start":9613.74,"end":9628.908,"text":"你雖然是認定他直系水準可是你的議法上面就已經把它放在後面的順序那這件事情不是也應該要一併的來檢討嗎到底適不適合不然我覺得這個邏輯上面似乎有一點點體力上面這個我們已經列入我們會議中討論了會討論了"},{"start":9631.149,"end":9653.007,"text":"但是跟我們報告就是說 祖父母跟繼承人的關係有時候比較在現實社會上 因為兄弟姐妹他也比較疏離了但祖父母畢竟直系現在的社會裡面 祖父母跟被紀念人住在一起比兄弟姐妹搞不好還多需要撫養的搞不好還多如果把他特留份也剝奪掉他影響層面搞不好更大比兄弟姐妹還更大"},{"start":9653.735,"end":9674.078,"text":"好 了解那再來第二個問題也是想要請教就是說剛剛次長也有提到嘛因為多數的兄弟姐妹可能平常來回不生嘛然後特別是現在不婚不生的一個比例上升的狀況之下那也有可能有另外一個狀況就是說他們長期是跟兄弟姐妹住在一起那實際上面照顧這個被繼承人"},{"start":9674.418,"end":9691.028,"text":"甚至生活照料就醫陪伴處理生活撫養等等的都是由兄弟姊妹來承擔了主要的責任那如果今天就是完全刪除了他們的特留份那一旦被繼承人透過遺囑把財產全部留給其他人那這些兄弟姊妹擔任長期照顧者的"},{"start":9691.408,"end":9714.576,"text":"兄弟姊妹最後在法律上面反而一無所有那這也是有一些人擔心的問題那我們也有看到日本在2018年修法的時候他進一步也增設了貢獻粉的這個制度也就是讓不是繼承人的親屬如果被繼承人有相當的照顧或其他的特別貢獻也可以依法向繼承人來請求相當程度的貢獻程度支付金錢"},{"start":9715.456,"end":9730.521,"text":"所以這個其實就是日本有考量到我們剛剛講的這個狀況那我想要請教就是說如果今天法務部的方向是要強化個人的財產自由擴大移住自由的話那同時我們如果又要維持繼承制度中的家庭照顧倫理"},{"start":9731.941,"end":9753.525,"text":"那就不能夠只是單一刪除一項權利卻不來處理他的貢獻要如何被承認否則最後就是修法會保護到的是形式上的一組滯留卻忽略了實際上的照顧付出所以我想要請教法務部針對於這個修法後要如何來保障這些長期真正承擔了這些照顧責任的兄弟姊妹呢"},{"start":9755.065,"end":9775.153,"text":"對 如同委員剛才所提的我們一旦完全刪除兄弟姊妹特留份的時候就會產生委員檢報上面所提的問題那兄弟姊妹他如果本身是消極的被撫養的當然或者積極的撫養別人的這部分我們要不要做一個配套的處理所以我們一直主張就是說在兄弟姊妹被消極的被撫養的時候應該要有一個遺產著給請求權"},{"start":9778.934,"end":9801.309,"text":"在兄弟姊妹積極的撫養別人的時候應該要有一個貢獻份的概念所以我們配套措施在消極面跟積極面我們都認為應該要去補充所以我說在刪除兄弟姊妹特留份的這個架構底下法務部一直主張是不是要有兩條或三條的條文去做這個補充性的讓這個權益作為相互的平衡"},{"start":9801.894,"end":9822.66,"text":"所以我們現在法務部已經有提出條文了嗎沒有 這個正在研擬目前我們正在準備要開第二次會議了那大概預估的進度是什麼時候我今天會議一來講就是說我們希望在這個會期結束之前我們的草案能夠完成預告完成進行預告 提出預告完成提出預告是嗎對"},{"start":9824.369,"end":9845.345,"text":"我想這個可能要再加速啦因為我想民間非常關注這件事情等到結束前才提出預告我覺得時間上面實在是有點太慢了啦所以我這個希望可以再加速啦那最後一題就是說針對於法服酬金這件事情我也想要跟次長來討論一下就是說我們在法律輔助的制度的存在就是要保障那些沒有資源的人嘛對不對因為有錢人根本就不需要要用到法服嘛"},{"start":9846.886,"end":9865.046,"text":"可是我們一方面要求律師承擔公益件的案件可是一方面我們卻讓這個酬金標準停留在20年前法輔基金會從2004年設立到現在我們一般案件的每一個計算則算的數額都是1000元20年前的一個陽春麵"},{"start":9866.067,"end":9883.257,"text":"是二三十塊現在的一碗陽春麵五十塊以上五十塊以上所以我們的物價指數已經改變得非常非常多了如果我們來看物價指數的成長已經成長了27.3%可是我們現在法服律是領的還是二十年前的一個報酬標準我認為這個非常的不合理啦"},{"start":9883.997,"end":9903.085,"text":"因為我想法服案件不是只是把名字掛上去嘛畢竟整個過程之中他可能要接見月券撰狀出庭和當事人反覆溝通釐清許多案件其實需要投入大量的時間跟專業那我們雖然現在在法服酬金計付辦法裡面有標準工時表也有佐檢"},{"start":9904.305,"end":9932.839,"text":"濁增的規定可是基數不變其實在一個過低的基礎上就算再怎麼細節的調整它還是非常的低所以2024年的時候立法院其實已經有決議要每三年依據物價指數來檢討一次但是現在似乎上還沒有具體的落實那我想針對於資源不足的地方會更直接的影響我們的律師來承接這些案件的意願也會影響我們的制度的可延續性所以我想要請教司法院"},{"start":9934.585,"end":9958.965,"text":"法服律師的酬金20年沒有調整現在有沒有明確的調整時程呢是 向委員報告司法院有成立這個法服的監管會那麼主辦廳有就這個酬金的調整做一個很詳細跟公平的研究就是支持合理酬金的調整但是呢"},{"start":9959.645,"end":9980.316,"text":"不太適合齊頭式的一個基數齊頭式的一個調整這樣齊頭式的調整有一個不公平的缺點就是案件它有繁重跟比較簡單那麼如果一律用這樣的基數去算尤其近年來這個詐欺案件太多"},{"start":9980.896,"end":9996.773,"text":"那對於這個是法服這樣的一個籌金的負擔會很沉重但司法院有研擬一個合理調整的方案現在正在非常詳細的研擬中有一定要調整是的"},{"start":9997.301,"end":10011.437,"text":"我希望就是說因為我覺得這個方案不太確定是說是由誰來做這個調整這個行政裁量我不太確定到底是如何進行但是因為我時間已經到我有一個簡單的訴求希望司法院可以來參考"},{"start":10012.418,"end":10031.155,"text":"就是說我是還是希望可以把最低的則算數而定期的檢討週期以及物價指數連動的機制來寫進我們的法律輔助法好要讓大家知道說我們是會有制度上面要求國家定期的來面對這件事情所以不曉得說我們是不是可以把這樣子的一個機制明文錄法呢想聽"},{"start":10032.376,"end":10054.208,"text":"聽一下我們司法院是不是可以簡單回應一下現在目前在研擬的方案內剛剛委員的說明我帶回去馬上向我們的主管報告同時我們的主管廳司法行政廳我會去把這些議題都帶給他們可以來加入研擬研究以上"},{"start":10054.608,"end":10070.303,"text":"好那我這樣子好不好因為看起來就是說我們會很快來進行這樣子的討論那我是不是可以兩個禮拜來追蹤一下我們相關的進度好嗎看知道一下現在進度到哪裡是我帶回去會報告回報好那我兩禮拜之後會再追蹤好謝謝謝謝好謝謝曾委員那麼接下來我們有請徐宇珍委員發言"},{"start":10086.798,"end":10093.084,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請法務部黃次長及司法院中廳長好,請次長還有廳長我也好"},{"start":10098.089,"end":10121.307,"text":"你好 聽長好正次還有聽長今天我們要討論的就是有關民法第1223條的這個有關特留份的問題那因為這一條法令是大概在民國大概18、19年制定的以今天的社會的結構跟這個親屬互動還有產產的方式其實已經"},{"start":10122.208,"end":10140.716,"text":"早就跟當年不同了這已經將近快一百年前的這樣子的一個法令那所以今天其實我們很多委員都有提出相關的修法版本就希望說因應現在的一個我們現在的社會的一個狀況因為其實大部分我們現在的人大概都是成年之後大概兄弟姊妹就各自經濟獨立"},{"start":10142.037,"end":10166.62,"text":"那彼此互為互養照顧的狀況其實不多所以我們今天特別提出來這樣的一個這個條文的修正草案那當然我想我們看到就是司法院的書面意見最後寫得很清楚就是無不同意見那請問一下鐘廷長所以針對這個部分司法院對於這個刪除方向是不是認為沒有問題"},{"start":10168.685,"end":10184.445,"text":"報告員是的另外我再請教一下黃政策司法院的報告剛寫的是無不同意見但是你們法務部一方面寫競表贊同但又寫說要考量不同的個案情況"},{"start":10185.886,"end":10206.193,"text":"適用的公平性,要採取配套的措施比較周全,是這樣嗎?對,基本上我們對這個三族兄弟組織特別部門的方向贊同,這個是跟我們要增加相關的配套,這是不衝突的。在這個暫存的架構下,我們主張另外要增加一條,增加兩條或三條的這個相關的配套。"},{"start":10206.961,"end":10228.733,"text":"對 那這相關的配套你們已經研擬出來了是嗎沒有 目前還在開會因為其實這個法條也已經將近一百年那針對這個部分而且時空背景還有整個環境其實已經不同那為什麼到現在還沒有辦法研擬出來跟我們報告因為我們一百零五年其實提出相關的版本當時的立法方向是就兄弟姐妹特留份的部分是降低他的特留份"},{"start":10229.193,"end":10247.306,"text":"現在兄弟姊妹的特留份是三分之一當時提案是降到四分之一因為還有兄弟姊妹當時還保有一點點的特留份所以不會跟今天完全刪除他是完全不同的立法方向這次你可以看一下就是依據司法院的統計資料我們可以看到有關遺囑訴訟已經有105年的1364件增加到"},{"start":10252.871,"end":10272.99,"text":"114年的2864件那確實我們也看到很多這個遺產的糾紛都是兄弟姊妹之間在做這樣子的一個徵送那因為你們現在要採議題式的三階段修法那請問一下就如果這個議題式的三階段修法是你們第一次研修小組會議的結論是嗎"},{"start":10275.791,"end":10303.736,"text":"對 這個是我們第一件修法就是把今天大家討論的特留份先拿出來抽出來單獨先立法所以說今天兩位的話到底針對這個部分是不是都同意這個刪除的方向是正確的基本上我們報告也講了刪除兄弟有沒有特留份的這個立法院本部是贊成的只是要配套那既然已經贊成 包括廳長這邊司法院也沒有意見嘛那是不是今天我們就可以讓這個法案能夠推進呢"},{"start":10305.965,"end":10312.532,"text":"我們還是認為要有配套的措施我們希望這個會期結束之前能提出法案的預告因為我們現在已經開過一次專家會議正準備四月中開第二次四月中已經四月了"},{"start":10325.965,"end":10350.172,"text":"我們還是希望說針對這個部分其實這個是一個相對單純的法條我們還是希望能夠因應現在實現這個真正被繼承人的遺囑自由的這樣子的一個方向可以嗎這個方向我們是贊同的那另外再請教一下廳長您可以請回我現在要請教的是這個黃政次就是有關這個房屋部在3月16號高調宣布要聯合這個"},{"start":10352.532,"end":10369.741,"text":"這個延長塑膠袋的囤貨那當時你們也開了一個記者會說要開始這個你們稽查的重點那這樣的一個方向不是就在告訴那些囤貨的黑心商人趕快來趕快把貨藏好我要來稽查了"},{"start":10370.601,"end":10389.088,"text":"會不會有這樣的問題因為現在看起來的話確實這個問題還蠻嚴重而且接下來有可能塑膠和飲料杯都可能斷貨所以這個方向是不是當時你們其實做法是有待商議的各位報告其實我們也沒有公布是哪一家要去查哪一家嘛全國這麼多的這個不會有預先"},{"start":10391.409,"end":10416.955,"text":"對你們有公佈要稽查哪一家可是我就是知道你們要開始稽查啦所以真正要囤貨的商人就趕快把貨藏起來就好了跟我報告他本來如果有涉及犯罪違法本來就不應該跟我們查不查當然當然所以現在有查到嗎你們現在有查到那個嗎有囤貨的狀況嗎因為因為他是昨天才開始聯合稽查所以相關相關主管機關因為聯合稽查他是主管機關根據他本身的業管去做聯合稽查所以相關的主管機關他會進行相關的盤整"},{"start":10418.135,"end":10436.106,"text":"對 因為針對這個部分的話其實法務部如果再不拿出鐵碗的話接下來我剛剛講的就是塑膠和飲料杯都有可能斷貨所以因為現在看起來中東的戰爭還沒有結束的一個跡象嘛所以這個塑膠通膨可能會壓垮這個基層的攤商那請問這個次長你這邊你們要怎麼來去解決這個問題呢"},{"start":10439.788,"end":10453.744,"text":"跟委員報告就是說我們除了這一個剛剛委員提到的聯合稽查小組啟動之外我們還請台高檢署如果涉及犯罪的話台高檢署他有一個這個關於這個打擊民生犯罪的平台他會要求所屬的地檢署"},{"start":10454.525,"end":10473.52,"text":"也要成立這個打擊犯罪比賽犯罪的平台現在這幾天全國各地檢署已經如我如獨的召集轄區內的所有跟這一個民生物資有關係的夜館的居住啊進行相關的情緒的分享或進行相關查處的一些研議所以說也希望政策這邊喔一定我們一定要好好的來去嚴格的這個稽查"},{"start":10475.042,"end":10489.272,"text":"讓這樣子的一個塑膠袋之亂不至於能夠擴展要不然現在大家都開始驚慌尤其是這個我們的小吃店的話幾乎都為了這個有的塑膠袋已經漲了一倍以上了那接下來還有可能面臨斷貨的問題所以這請法務部一定要嚴格的來去稽查"},{"start":10494.375,"end":10520.443,"text":"那另外再請教您有關就是新北市土城的圍棋老師猥褻12名兒童案那因為這個部分其實我們現在其實一直強調要減速作業但是呢這個減速作業的這個程序還是耗時過長在90年事辦的初期大概只需要兩個小時可是現在實務上進入減速作業的案件卻大幅增加到六個小時請問為什麼要會增加這麼多時間"},{"start":10523.244,"end":10551.187,"text":"各位報告那減速當然是我們的政策方向啦但每一個個案不一樣他這個小朋友的狀況也不一樣他只要剛花這麼多小時在詢問這個被害人一定是個案上有他的理由當天的狀況其實他從9月1號到隔天凌晨是歷經13個小時喔那這樣對一個這個被害的這個學生他其實生理的心理的煎熬其實都非常的大所以這根本完全違反我們這個減速作業的初衷嘛"},{"start":10552.912,"end":10571.46,"text":"簡述跟委員報告簡述是避免重複的多不同的人進行詢問詢問那這個是檢察官他的問他的詢問但是檢察官詢問被害人他時間是不是過長這一點基本上檢察官他個案他有一定他的理由但我也贊成這個委員所提的因為他畢竟被害的小朋友時間能不能"},{"start":10572.56,"end":10591.46,"text":"尤其是這一件的話當時在這個家長要培訓還拒絕家長培訓的狀況請問一下檢察官可以這樣剝奪家長的陪同權嗎當然陪同權原則上是可以但是他法律上有規定就是說檢察官在特定的狀況之下特定要件之下他是可以不讓他在場的"},{"start":10592.1,"end":10613.215,"text":"可是檢察官是為了他自己辦案的一個方便結果忽視了保護我們這個真正受害的這些孩童那請問一下這個方向正是您認同這個邏輯嗎原則上當然小朋友我們要這樣他可陪同或可靠信賴人在場但檢察官他都有清楚知道這個規定他還會做這種決定表示他個案上的確有他的考慮"},{"start":10613.975,"end":10630.23,"text":"那你不能說個案上有這樣的考慮其實我現在講的是通盤的問題就是說對於孩童來說事實上他最信任的就是家人那為什麼家人不能陪伴在旁邊我覺得針對這個案子我們覺得非常的匪夷所思啊所以這個條文設計上原則上是讓他陪童這檢察官也清楚的"},{"start":10630.77,"end":10649.358,"text":"對 所以說針對這部分檢察官他在這方面的真的在這個執法上是不是有過當那所以我覺得這個部分法務部應該也要特別去了解讓我們所有的這個被害的學童不至於說在面對這樣子的一個冗長的一個宣誓過程中還要遭受到這樣的壓力又沒有親人陪伴在場這個部分因為監察院他事實上有進行調查"},{"start":10650.618,"end":10677.324,"text":"那相關我們也相關的這個對還有針對他針對這個因為他這次還有拍攝性影像嘛所以針對這個數位這個性暴力的這個起訴居然還沒有懲罰檢查官居然還沒有起訴這個兒少性剝削條例的第36條所以這個檢查官其實基本上有很多地方我們都覺得有很大的一個問題啊所以說可能請法務部也要了解也要了解一下狀況好謝謝"},{"start":10681.069,"end":10703.175,"text":"好 謝謝許宇珍委員 那我們接下來有請黃敬豪委員 黃敬豪委員黃敬豪委員不在 那接下來請楊瓊瑩委員謝謝主席 楊瓊瑩發言 邀請法務部跟司法好 那有請次長跟廳長委員好"},{"start":10707.072,"end":10729.732,"text":"好 就今天本席跟黃建豪等28人所提案針對民法第1223條的修正也就是刪除兄弟姊妹特留份規定落實遺產自由並維護繼承的一個公平我請教兩位 是不是贊同本席的這個提案 請說明"},{"start":10731.309,"end":10760.609,"text":"官員報告就法務部的立場報告和我多次答詢我已經持有刪除兄弟姊妹特留方向的部分我們是贊成的只在刪除的架構底下法務部一直主張希望有增加兩條到三條的配套的條文來做補充配套的條文現在委員以及社會大眾方向跟您的方向也是一樣也就是都同意刪除的這個方向那你的配套今天我們已經在尋答在審議你什麼時候要出來"},{"start":10762.41,"end":10766.611,"text":"為什麼會慢半拍呢 你既然認同為什麼還要等待這個時間呢什麼時候會出來我們剛剛就希望這個會期結束之前我們能夠進行預告提出預告 條文提出預告這個會期結束進行預告 可是我們已經ING在審查當中"},{"start":10783.413,"end":10802.366,"text":"你還說你沒慢半拍這個法案提出已經什麼時候就已經提出啊好 法部我們仍舊希望因為立法院在審議在詢答我們希望你的腳程要一起提出來做討論這才是重點這是非常重要因為既然大家方向是一致嘛來 司法 廳長"},{"start":10804.281,"end":10821.34,"text":"包括委員 關於這個兄弟姊妹特留份的刪除司法院的立場是認同的 同意的是認同的 好 非常感謝那也就是說因為依照民法將兄弟姊妹來列為特留份的這個權利人因為我們以往的社會"},{"start":10822.861,"end":10850.704,"text":"這個生活方式跟形態到現在有很大的改變早期是大家族共同撫養的一個結構所以有當時這樣子的一個設置但是我們當前核心的家庭形態它已經跟以往這個是不一樣了所以實際上兄弟姊妹長大之後呢他也各自能夠獨立有各自去獨立 去經濟所以如果我們強制去分配遺產 倒置"},{"start":10852.165,"end":10874.68,"text":"無子女者即使他有力道這個遺族他就沒有辦法依照他自己意願去分財產那不僅是侵害了遺族的自由更形成未婚未育反而被制度去做懲罰這也就是我們大家贊同的這個不對等的一個現象再來我們也看到日本 德國"},{"start":10876.909,"end":10888.296,"text":"法國他們這個法治國家都已經早已經是排除那在去年2024年2024年前的時候呢那韓國他也宣告違憲並已經廢止了所以呢剛剛我們已經有討論到"},{"start":10892.839,"end":10908.058,"text":"大家都認同是取消的那至於你的配套我還是勉勵在我們審議當中你有這個方向就必須提出共同討論讓這個案能夠真正的落實在我們社會的一個"},{"start":10909.499,"end":10930.247,"text":"這個公正上面才不會又引導說立了遺囑而沒有辦法去落實的這個人民信貸保護原則最高的原則去受挑戰好 所以要加油那接下來本席法務部我要請教中東戰爭這原有的這個問題讓石化業在這個它的原料方面呢"},{"start":10931.267,"end":10940.553,"text":"PE PVVC 這一些不斷在漲 尤其乙烯的部分它不是漲四五十趴它乙烯的部分現在幾乎漲到一倍 97%那現在導致報價"},{"start":10945,"end":10964.316,"text":"也沒有辦法出貨甚至報價頂多給你出半料那所以導致我們整個生活產業的形態大受影響塑膠袋紙杯這些會大受影響那現在你們說你們在查你們查的方向是什麼進度是什麼請做說明"},{"start":10965.897,"end":10981.816,"text":"這涉及到行政方面的角度跟行事方面的角度行政方面的角度的話 部裡面有一個物價聯合計查小組會到各主管機關 結合各主管機關到各地去做查訪如果有涉及行政 他就行政裁罰"},{"start":10982.797,"end":11005.491,"text":"這是行政的角度那從刑事犯罪的角度呢我們台高檢署呢他有一個平台他已經要求所屬各地檢的這個打擊民生犯罪平台各地檢署要結合轄區內的所有的相關機關他要成立自己的平台然後呢如果一旦什麼時候成立跟我們報告台高檢署他已經在上個禮拜已經成立這個平台早就有他已經重申在上個禮拜"},{"start":11006.752,"end":11033.307,"text":"要求 要求那各地檢署要求說各地檢署在這個禮拜都陸續的召集轄區內的平台在召會所以還沒有實際去諮詢嗎有 有 有 已經有實際有沒有 本期要請問的是這個因為已經告訴你末端沒有辦法出貨影響到我們的民生產業了那到底你從上個禮拜開始注重到這個問題說你們要去查那到現在今天已經是禮拜四了"},{"start":11034.247,"end":11060.612,"text":"那到底查的情況到底是怎麼樣那個中央的聯合稽查 物價聯合稽查小組昨天就已經聯合稽查了那您提到的各地方的地檢署的檢察官的部分他也陸續地質稽查但相關有沒有案件正在 他還要進行蒐證的過程嗎他不可能昨天查 今天就有案子出現他要進行相關的蒐證所以你現在回答本席的就是說從上個禮拜你們已經有開始啟動"},{"start":11062.633,"end":11081.146,"text":"因為這位大眾要了解是政府的進度到底是什麼啊也就是上個禮拜你們開始啟動現在還是有進行是在查是不是如此那當然那請教那當然為什麼越查越漲價為什麼越查越末端越沒有辦法出貨"},{"start":11084.1,"end":11098.45,"text":"這問題到底出在哪裡這問題當然很多那就從法務部的角度來看我們當然是要這一個有行政部法要聯合稽查有刑事部法我們要進行偵辦委員提到的那個變數因素太多了那就不是法務部他的主管範圍"},{"start":11099.551,"end":11117.783,"text":"所以法部當然在查的時候就是說你如何去區分它是合理的庫存行為跟不法的囤積那當然公平會有沒有聯合的壟斷這是政府必須橫向去聯繫的因為我們要看的是民眾的需求"},{"start":11119.046,"end":11143.572,"text":"產業的需求產業的需求看到政府越查越漲價越查越沒有出貨這是我們身為民代必須告訴政府我們現在碰到的困難是如何所以你們必須橫向的去了解因為本席非常深怕如果無限量的一直漲在這樣的情況之下整個民生同本再漲哇 那這個人民的生活太痛苦了"},{"start":11144.292,"end":11157.61,"text":"所以政府必須要拿出政府的權責要好好去做一定要加油最後本席一個課題給你也就是說我們現在在新北校園割井的這個案件"},{"start":11159.204,"end":11185.957,"text":"那在這個案件當中到底據聞你們3月23號是有開公聽會去做這個討論那到底我們司法院也就是有危險的高暴力的這一些反覆偏差行為的你如果讓他一直留在一般的校園那我們的老師怎麼辦我們的孩子怎麼辦家長問了一句話我的孩子在學校有沒有安全"},{"start":11188.378,"end":11203.243,"text":"這個是民主國家不應當有的話語不應當這樣子但是他明明白白會讓家長來憂心所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教成立專責關護機構是不是有這個必要因為教育部司法院還有法務部你們三方那現在你們的公聽會方向有沒有一致了"},{"start":11217.37,"end":11230.035,"text":"有關高風險飛行少年回到校園的安全目前司法院在少年法庭這一端已經實施了所謂高風險篩選"},{"start":11231.656,"end":11247.561,"text":"一篩選到高中選加入幫派或有危害生命的一律都是用隔離方式的那這個也跟教育部一起有所謂的過渡性中途的學校教育措施來隔離另外比較嚴重的我們是送到這個角質學校"},{"start":11250.002,"end":11269.452,"text":"第三方面就是這幾個所有行政端跟司法端聯合開這種專案的資源整合會議來將這些高風險的孩子有一個層次的處理至於說要不要成立關戶署這個是一個國家大政策的問題那我們同意一起討論一起研究"},{"start":11270.672,"end":11293.772,"text":"討論一句同意討論因為3月23號裡頭教育部跟法務部你們都是贊成的就司法的部分你們有意見當然有意見我們要好好去討論因為我們要看的是末端如果依照廳長你剛剛所說的你都是足夠的但是足夠一樣跟剛剛那個議題一樣末端的時候家長問一句我的孩子在校園到底安不安全"},{"start":11294.372,"end":11316.016,"text":"到底安不安全這個是我們必須要去思考的而不是我們依照目前的制度但是你的答案是不好的那就有討論的空間所以我也歡喜有看到3月23號的這個公聽會那兩方都贊成就你這方還有疑慮我希望三方還是要好好的去討論我們的目標就是讓孩子"},{"start":11316.536,"end":11338.093,"text":"能夠安全這是我們終極的目標嘛對不對所以我們必須要好好再討論好嗎讓我們的孩子安全謝謝謝謝楊委員那接下來是林柱英委員林柱英委員林柱英委員不在蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在羅廷維委員"},{"start":11339.242,"end":11362.532,"text":"羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員不在那今天所有登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢我們就詢答結束那委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者就請相關機關盡速送交個別委員以及本會那委員蔡奇商和張志倫兩位委員他們所提的書面質詢我們就列入記錄並且刊登公報而且請相關機關要以書面答覆"},{"start":11364.557,"end":11381.085,"text":"那麼我們現在就進行討論事項那麼先請議事人員宣讀今天的有兩個提案然後所有的提案條文宣讀時間大約兩分鐘那麼如果有修正都議互附帶決議提出的話那麼也請儘速將書面送交到主席台"},{"start":11381.565,"end":11397.3,"text":"要一臂應發到現場進行討論審查法案的時候也請主要的列席機關代表移到主席台正前方首長席的位置就座宣讀的時候如果有收到修正動議也請一併宣讀宣讀後我們就即進行討論現在先請宣讀條文"},{"start":11400.981,"end":11430.981,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":11431.101,"end":11442.954,"text":"委員羅廷英委等提案第1223條委員林佩祥等提案第1223條均同委員吳宗憲等提案委員柯智恩等提案第1223條委員楊瓊英等提案第1223條均同委員林倩琦等提案委員王洪威等提案第1223條同委員吳宗憲等提案"},{"start":11451.303,"end":11475.826,"text":"委員吳曉伶等提案第1223條委員徐曉欣等提案第1223條均同委員林建啟等提案委員林登夫等提案第1223條除將第四款修正為次曾有撫養被繼承人逝世或繼承人身心障礙或無謀生能力受被繼承人撫養者兄弟姊妹之特留份為其因紀份三分之一其餘未修正"},{"start":11477.099,"end":11486.924,"text":"委員圖全集等提案第1223條委員徐宇貞等提案第1223條委員張志倫等提案第1223條委員黃建豪等提案第1223條委員羅志強等提案第1223條委員游皓等提案第1223條委員吟寬衡等提案第1223條俊桐委員吳宗慶等提案委員賴思寶等提案第1223條"},{"start":11502.236,"end":11517.488,"text":"除刪除現行條文第四款及第五款外其餘未修正委員羅明才等提案第1223條及委員陳金威等提案第1223條均同委員吳宗憲等提案討論事項第二案民法繼承邊施行法"},{"start":11518.208,"end":11537.922,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案增訂條文第12條中華民國某年某月某日修正通過之民法繼承編第1223條自公佈日施行本條修正施行後發生之繼承事件適用修正後之規定施行前發生之繼承事件仍適用修正前之規定"},{"start":11538.482,"end":11555.293,"text":"修正事行前因兄弟姐妹特留份提起之訴訟長置執行或保全程序依修正前之規定處理修正事行前以確定之判決調解和解或以完成遺產分割登記不得僅以本次修正為由請求撤銷或變更宣讀完畢"},{"start":11558.479,"end":11584.858,"text":"那麼條文已經都宣讀完畢了那麼現在就進行討論事項第一案 併案審查民法第1223條條文修正草案那麼因為這個本案條文只有一條而且我們也經過上午的詢答所以我們就想請問在場的委員我們是不是本案就省略大提討論直接進入逐條審查好 那麼那我們接下來就進入逐條審查"},{"start":11587.492,"end":11613.158,"text":"本案系修正總共是處理一條就1223條請問有沒有意見就是說針對1223條那事實上我們總共有20個委員提案但是歸納起來大概就是有三種不同的版本那麼而且就是有18個委員的提案就是直接就是刪除"},{"start":11614.673,"end":11639.699,"text":"兄弟姐妹特留份第四款那麼另外兩個版本一個是林德福委員他的提案是將兄弟姐妹特留份的部分就限縮在如果是有曾經撫養被繼承人的事實或是繼承人身心障礙或無謀生能力受被繼承人撫養者的話那仍然是維持他的特留份"},{"start":11642.029,"end":11664.398,"text":"賴氏寶委員的提案則是刪除兄弟姊妹和祖父母的特留份 足以這三案那經過我們剛剛大家的討論那麼事實上因為法務部還要有一些時間去研議但是這個條文大部分我們委員是有共識的在政策方向上大家是一致的所以在這裡本席是"},{"start":11664.938,"end":11673.382,"text":"想請問就是各位委員們的看法如果說今天對於這個條文還沒有辦法確定的話是不是我們可以就保留送協商先請想法會委員就結論的部分我贊成主席的結論就先保留送協商但是我這次要提除了剛剛大家在這個詢答裡面所提到的問題因為我們這一次保留送協商是單一這個條文"},{"start":11694.412,"end":11710.485,"text":"至於這個法務部所提的剛剛所提的其他的配套包括這些所謂貢獻份的討論或者是這個配偶居住權這些相關的這個顯然沒有辦法塞在這個條文裡面也就是說保留送鞋商之後你們這個配套也沒有辦法放進來討論也沒辦法放進來討論"},{"start":11717.13,"end":11730.836,"text":"這個部分齁這個我希望說第一個就是你們要這個配套因為我們這一條顯然在我們協商期過了之後應該就會達成共識就會做修正但是你其他的配套你沒有沒有的話會"},{"start":11733.861,"end":11757.449,"text":"問題也許也許不是很大但是真的還是會有問題就是他會在例如說以這個林德福委員的案子為例就是說他的這些兄弟姐妹裡面他有有身心障礙沒有謀生能力的或者是他事實上有長期撫養的事實的這些兄弟姐妹他在這個你們還沒有其他的配套這些貢獻份這些相關的修法沒有提出來但是他的特留份卻被刪除了"},{"start":11758.97,"end":11765.926,"text":"這個就有個空窗期即使是兩個月也好 半年也好這半年裡面這些人的權益就受到損害了"},{"start":11767.567,"end":11791.824,"text":"這個你們如果不加速立法的話到時候這個部分就會發生問題這個第一個要請法務部等一下做個回應就是說如果我們今天保留送協商那麼你們接下來你說在這個會期結束之前預告到你通過到送進立法院裡面大概時間還要再三個月兩三個月應該跑不掉"},{"start":11793.085,"end":11798.189,"text":"到下個會期去了這中間的空窗期裡面我剛剛講的這個狀況它變成權益受損這些無謀生能力這些有適時撫養適時撫養適時的這些兄弟姊妹他的權益受損"},{"start":11808.943,"end":11822.259,"text":"這個部分要請法務部要考量另外即使只修這一條也有幾個問題我覺得說是不是我們能夠在協商期到之前我們法務部能夠有什麼樣的意見就針對這一條第一個就是"},{"start":11826.204,"end":11842.506,"text":"就是這個有關於這個他目前的這個各款的順序的問題順序其實我們目前的立法例的順序是有問題的他跟外國的這些立法例雖然他的順序不影響他的權力但是他的立法結構是有問題的"},{"start":11843.487,"end":11860.92,"text":"因為你在1138條裡面,配偶之外的繼承人,配偶之外的繼承人這些是有血緣關係的,它有一個順序第一個是直系血清非親屬,第二個父母,第三兄弟姊妹,第四組父母"},{"start":11864.322,"end":11890.263,"text":"顯然在這個1138條裡面它的順序祖父母是在兄弟姊妹之後的但是我們卻把第三款的特留份去掉在第四款的特留份如果保留那就在立法體系上會變得很奇怪理論上如果要做這樣子的修法是不是在1138條它應該要配合修正把1138條的祖父母提到第三把兄弟姊妹降到第四"},{"start":11891.484,"end":11917.608,"text":"這樣才會符合立法體力雖然權益上面沒有影響但符合立法體力就變成兄弟姊妹繼承順序在祖父母之後才會他的特留份被拿掉祖父母特留份保留嘛對不對這是第一個順序問題第二個我們目前現行的這個今天要修的這個1223條裡面他的這個配偶的特留份是放在第三款"},{"start":11918.308,"end":11922.362,"text":"但是1138他的配偶是在所有繼承人之前"},{"start":11923.908,"end":11948.333,"text":"所以這個順序上面顯然也是立法的體力是有漢格的理論上這次修如果要修我們應該順便是不是就順便就把配偶提到第一順位他已符合1138條的體力這個在協商期之後我想如果真的我們只要如果我們委員真的堅持只要單獨修這一條不等"},{"start":11950.333,"end":11977.48,"text":"法務部的其他配套的話那至少是不是在那時候修法的時候這部分請我們委員會能夠納入考量再來第三個就是法務部其實有委託學者研究學者研究出來有一個條文我有看到這個條文它基本上是仿日本的立法它的立法其實整個文字"},{"start":11978.76,"end":12000.754,"text":"他在第一項的前面他就說兄弟姊妹以外是繼承人其特留份應依下列籍款規定這是你們研究報告裡面的建議的立法體例這樣子的立法體例事實上是比較好的因為在1138條裡面所有的繼承人大家都有特留份但是在123條裡面卻兄弟姊妹不見了"},{"start":12002.145,"end":12028.039,"text":"那他用這一條文字增加這一款的文字來說明為什麼就是說這一款就在規定兄弟姊妹以外的繼承人的特留份這個修法方向是不是如果最後我們只要單修這一條是不是能夠有提出相關的對案來做這樣子的調整以上我個人是贊成主席的結論但是我希望剛剛我所提的這些問題能夠在法務部在我們最後"},{"start":12029.579,"end":12044.108,"text":"這個協商期完成大家要進行協商之前能夠就這些部分表示意見 以上好 謝謝那個孫委員的這個說明那接下來我們剛剛是許委員先舉手 請許與曾委員先發言"},{"start":12045.205,"end":12062.132,"text":"謝謝主席針對剛剛主席提議的就是要保留送協商本席沒有意見但是在這邊我要特別的請教一下事實上因為剛剛法務部是說還要等到會期結束之前才能把相關的配套"},{"start":12062.632,"end":12084.939,"text":"那當然說在這個相關的配套因為我看你們的這個議題研修小組的結論會有三個階段嘛包括特留分跟貢獻分還有遺囑相關的修正條文還有其他本部重新彙整105年的民法繼承篇的相關的這個修正條文所以看起來是非常多的條文要一起那其實我們今天其實只有其中的一條喔是不是能夠是"},{"start":12087.543,"end":12108.097,"text":"我等一下講完可能請這個次長再特別然後另外其實像我們的這個委員裡面有人提到說是針對有少數兄弟姊妹照顧的個案應該是要照顧到他那但是我想請教一下說這個部分是不是可以依照民法第1149條請求佐給遺產"},{"start":12112.08,"end":12134.422,"text":"那如果不行的話那是不是要用什麼樣的方式那當然我們現在是主張要刪除民法第1223的第4條的這個相關的特留份的規定其實就是希望說這個已經將近百年的這樣子的一個條文能夠讓它符合現在真正現在現有的環境那所以也希望說法務部是不是能夠加速這個"},{"start":12136.023,"end":12152.116,"text":"對 你們提出配套的一個時程要不然的話 就像我們今天保留送人箱一個月之後可能就會開始有這個協商的時候也許 萬一通過之後 那你們即使你們的配套也沒辦法納進來的狀況之下那我們要怎麼來處理這個問題 謝謝好 那麼接下來請曾委員發言不好意思 我先處理一下那個會議時間今天我們中午不休息 然後上午會議時間就繼續進行好 來請"},{"start":12164.926,"end":12190.424,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我想我一樣對於主席剛剛的結論沒有任何的意見那當然一樣是在我剛剛的質詢裡面其實我也特別提到有關於貢獻份的部分然後還有就是說剛剛兩位委員也其實都有提到就是說我們對於這個現實上就是有一些特殊的身心狀況的孩子或者是身心障礙或是因為重大疾病而造成他沒有謀生能力需要靠家庭來支持的那這些人在現實生活裡都不是少數"},{"start":12191.204,"end":12217.076,"text":"所以這些人在這一次的修法通過之後如何來確保他們這些的權益可以被保障我覺得這個其實是需要把不同的處境都要來納入來做評估才能夠找到一個比較周延的方式不然我覺得這些人可能最後就會實質的受到一些影響所以剛剛因為其實在法務部在剛剛我的質詢裡面其實有提到說他們是在會期結束的時候才會預告那我覺得剛剛其實兩位委員都有提到這個其實是太慢了"},{"start":12217.256,"end":12234.836,"text":"所以待會還是要請法務部更明確的讓大家知道說我們應該如何的來去處理這件事情那我覺得這才能夠去確保我們不會有一些弱勢的族群受到影響那再來針對林德福委員的提案裡面呢他特別把兄弟姐妹拉出來要符合這些條件"},{"start":12235.957,"end":12260.463,"text":"我覺得這邊有一個疑問啦就是說為什麼只有兄弟姊妹特別被拉出來必須符合這些條件才能夠取得特留份這是我的問題因為其他的順序繼承人如果不是這樣那針對於兄弟姊妹有額外的標準那這樣子的差別待遇會不會因為標準不夠清楚不夠合理我覺得都會造成一些問題所以我想這個部分我自己是蠻有疑慮的啦那我不曉得說法務部對這一條的看法又是什麼我想聽聽看 謝謝"},{"start":12264.187,"end":12291.723,"text":"那個剛剛是不是陳昭志委員有要發言好請謝謝我先就原則上的問題因為今天這麼多委員提出了大概20個版本那早上我在質詢的時候也是有請教法務部有這麼多的版本那大家也聽你們也聽到了一些意見跟想法但是因為一直又說我們有開了第一次會議專家會議然後準備開第二次那我一直希望說有一個明確的一個進度而且在國發會的這個"},{"start":12292.984,"end":12301.232,"text":"公共意見的這個平台上面也聚集了很多的這個意見我是希望這個法務部能夠加速啦因為我自己的人工選舉法被擱這20年我都覺得無法想像我沒有想到這個部分這個民法居然被放置了100年將近100年都"},{"start":12308.038,"end":12319.006,"text":"沒有人去盤點關心或要做一個更新這個是第一個 我希望就是說我可以支持今天是保留這些條款然後把剛剛的疑慮等等趕快禁訴 但是要有個時辰不是說我們在演繹中或我們會繼續開會第二個有關剛剛幾位同事們提到的弱勢的兄弟姊妹當然法務部也有提出這個觀念"},{"start":12334.036,"end":12359.371,"text":"弱勢的兄弟姊妹被撫養的問題其實某個程度它是個假議題假問題因為這些兄弟姊妹之所以會有特留份是因為被繼承人沒有子女父母又雙亡所以這些前順位的有繼承權的人都不存在那兄弟姊妹才有繼承權的發生所以弱勢的兄弟姊妹的撫養應該不是應該不應該是依照這個特留份"},{"start":12360.932,"end":12377.948,"text":"來處理啦 就這一點我表達我的意見那我是支持今天保留送出委員會但是我們要求法務部對於這個法的送出 送到行政院送到立法院來 這個時程今天一定要說一個清楚 好 謝謝好 謝謝 好好再請那個省法會委員"},{"start":12382.725,"end":12409.788,"text":"不好意思我補充一下因為剛剛在講的過程中有口誤了所以我這邊做一個修正以避免造成誤違就是說我剛剛講說1138條他繼承人的順序我說這個祖父母跟兄弟姊妹不是說祖父母跟兄弟姊妹調整這部分不能調整調整之後會影響到其他部分所以我的意思是說因為因應這個1138條他的這個順序所以我是認為我是贊成我們這個法務部所提出來的那個"},{"start":12411.13,"end":12429.026,"text":"這個學者不是提出來說什麼委託學者所做的那樣子的修正就是把兄弟姊妹放到這個第一項你說兄弟姊妹以外之繼承人在123條裡面兄弟姊妹以外之繼承人他的特留分的規定應該照這樣子的修正不是要去修正138條一座以上修正"},{"start":12430.623,"end":12446.446,"text":"好那麼謝謝那接下來是不是可以請那個黃次長這邊需不需要做些回應那我需要先講就是說因為剛剛這個很多的委員都已經有提到大家不太能夠認同就法務部要提出你們的版本一直要到這個會期結束"},{"start":12447.226,"end":12468.874,"text":"之前然後才有可能會提出更何況現在就是說很多的法案然後法令案都押在行政院行政院他這公文不批然後他不去加速去審查的話其實對就算法務部你們已經把法案送到行政院但是因為這個法案沒有經過行政院院會的同意通過也是出不來"},{"start":12469.474,"end":12486.049,"text":"所以呢其實希望說剛剛大家原本都有共識希望法務部能夠加速你們的法案的提出那我們接下來可能會有一個月的政黨協商的時間然後能夠盡量在這個階段裡面提出你們的對案好嗎好來請"},{"start":12488.977,"end":12515.797,"text":"跟各位報告那各位剛才都提到要加速這整個修法的時程這本部絕對會遵從只是說立法它修法它有一定的期程那這個法它如果送到行政院之後它還要經過行政院會的審查還要會嫌司法院再送大院所以它有一定的這個客觀上的時間上的一個需求所以本部在這個才會提就是說我們在這個因為我們下個月"},{"start":12517.278,"end":12532.344,"text":"這個四月中就要召開第二次會議了嘛那剩下大概一兩月的時間我們就把草案寫出來就進行預告的程序所以才提出這個期程要不然的話的確會有剛剛委員講到的就是說我們今天如果把兄弟檢驗退留份刪掉就過的話那之後"},{"start":12533.024,"end":12549.397,"text":"法務部的配套措施再進來的話會產生時間差的規定不同會產生平等權的問題為什麼之前的會有特留份之前的沒有特留份之後我們過了又有特留份這個時間差會產生兄弟姐妹之間有撫養事實的時間差的不違反平等原則的問題"},{"start":12556.263,"end":12584.682,"text":"所以這部分要請大院來考慮啦另外剛剛的委員有提到就是說如果大院要刪除這一個兄弟姊妹1223的第四款的特留份的話兄弟姊妹特留份的部分那本部的文字上建議也是比較贊成就把配偶的部分提到最上面來啦而不是按照現有單純把它刪掉配偶又夾在中間這很怪就把配偶提到最上位依序的往下排這個如果文字上要進行這樣的刪除"},{"start":12586.683,"end":12613.311,"text":"機械式把它刪掉這樣那這是立法上的建議啦那剛剛委員有提到立法建議就是說是不是要採我們研究版本的就是說除兄弟姊妹以外的繼承人這個加在這個前面那個帽子啦那這個我們在整個研修過程中有討論過這個立法的技術啦這個立法技術後來不採的原因是說除兄弟姊妹以外的繼承人那好像兄弟姊妹還有其他的繼承人的方式"},{"start":12614.111,"end":12641.837,"text":"還有其他的方式要去找事實上沒有我們就整個沒他沒有特留份嘛我們如果調整起來除兄弟妹妹以外之繼承人外好像還有兄弟妹妹有一個特殊的規定在哪裡事實上沒有我們就把它刪掉而已所以後來我們整個這個研修的過程當中就不贊成這個我們維修研究案的這一個條文要刪的話就直接把這個第四款刪掉調次把那個配偶的提到最最上面來最上面來"},{"start":12642.737,"end":12657.077,"text":"好那剛剛另外有委員有提到的就林德福林委員的版本就是說在前面加個條件要件的部分加要件這部分我在我們的報告裡面其實有說明那為什麼只有兄弟姐妹有要件那其他的記者為什麼"},{"start":12659.139,"end":12687.37,"text":"他的特留分就不需要要件這第一個第二個他是一個全有跟全無的概念一旦符合就全有要不然不符合就全無他沒有中間一個彈性的一個空間所以說就單這個零得分零版本就這一個特留分的部分三特留分設一個要件設在前面本部是不贊成這種立法模式好另外剛剛委員有提到就是說若是兄弟姐妹之間撫養的問題他不是特留分的問題對啊"},{"start":12689.411,"end":12707.702,"text":"但是三求特留分之後就會產生弱勢的兄弟姐妹之間互相撫養的問題所以我們本部才一直在主張要配套我消極的被繼承人撫養的兄弟姐妹你要不要給我一個遺產 佐給請求權我已經沒有特留分了我是被你撫養的你可不可以給我遺產請求權 這是第一個積極的撫養他的 我撫養他的"},{"start":12715.687,"end":12723.911,"text":"那你要不要給我特留份 貢獻份 貢獻份所以消極積極才需要去做一個配套我們一直主張是這樣以上回應好 那麼這個經過今天大家剛剛的詢答還有逐條審查的討論我想還是希望能夠等到法務部這邊有個更具體的意見"},{"start":12739.878,"end":12765.687,"text":"我們就1223條的條文經過逐條討論之後我們就還是決議保留送協商好不好保留送協商那麼本案逐條已經處理完畢那就接下來做以下的宣告本案必須要交由黨團協商院會討論的時候就由本席來出席說明"},{"start":12767.352,"end":12793.962,"text":"各位報告還有那個施行法的部分接下來還有進行討論事項第二案那我們接下來就審查民法繼承偏施行法增訂第12條的條文草案請問在場委員本案是否也省略了大體討論我們就直接進入主條討論好嗎就只有吳宗憲委員的他所提出的民法繼承偏施行法增訂第12條條文草案我們可以就同意省略大體討論嗎"},{"start":12795.356,"end":12806.023,"text":"好的那麼接下來我們就繼續審查民法繼承偏施行法增訂第12條條文草案那麼先請宣讀宣讀過了那繼續我們就進行主條討論請問在場委員有沒有意見"},{"start":12810.322,"end":12832.46,"text":"因為這個主要是針對施行的日期是請沈委員我想這個是針對這個1223條的修法的配套那我們既然這個修法的條文都保留了我們是這個也保留這條也保留一併協商那就請問在座的委員有沒有意見我們是不是這條就也保留送協商好的謝謝"},{"start":12835.731,"end":12861.812,"text":"那麼本案的主條也已經處理完畢了所以就做以下宣告那本案需要交由黨團協商院會討論的時候也是有本席來出席說明那麼今天本次的會議議程所立的事項都已經處理完畢了那非常謝謝各位今天這個討論的非常的愉快而且也都提出很具體的意見那本次會議就到此結束那現在散會謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"168163","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168163","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106ca19f9228dd4b8352e62ad2ff7c69481570bdfb2511f2cb5c5ab69b334a180b4b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"12:26:49 - 12:32:50","影片長度":"00:06:01","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:26:49+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:32:50+08:00","duration":361,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.58784375,"end":2.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.22034375,"end":4.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.704718750000001,"end":8.755343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.755343750000002,"end":24.668468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.172843750000002,"end":10.274093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.274093750000002,"end":10.442843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.42471875,"end":18.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.12409375,"end":28.465343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.735343750000002,"end":32.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.39721875,"end":45.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.09971875,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.523468750000006,"end":88.65846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.72596875,"end":107.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.29909375000001,"end":93.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.20409375000001,"end":118.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.86471875000001,"end":122.61096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.79659375000001,"end":135.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.09846875,"end":164.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.97096875,"end":141.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.48846875,"end":150.79221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.37221875,"end":167.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.66721875000002,"end":179.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.33659375000002,"end":177.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.79221875000002,"end":177.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.42909375000002,"end":185.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.04409375,"end":189.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.97596875000002,"end":191.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.61284375000002,"end":194.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.71784375000001,"end":194.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.78534375,"end":194.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.86971875,"end":195.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.08909375000002,"end":195.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.15659375,"end":195.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.79784375,"end":202.98659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.29034375,"end":205.68659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.97346875000002,"end":244.06034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.21221875,"end":266.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.22159375,"end":275.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.85284375000003,"end":317.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.65221875000003,"end":336.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.97846875000005,"end":355.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.99284375,"end":352.39784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.11909375000005,"end":356.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.29596875000004,"end":359.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.89034375,"end":362.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.56534375,"end":361.10534375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.5,"end":3.942,"text":"麻煩我們的交通部部長請陳部長我們來請看大螢幕鯉魚潭8歲南投溺斃事件這不是單一事件在2023年基隆市就是大五輪沙灘一天就溺斃了"},{"start":25.331,"end":45.186,"text":"三人事件 那就看到基隆市政府曾就跟觀光署發生了沙灘跟水域管理範圍的一個爭議紅色警戒線事實上是市政府劃的可是又緊鄰我們的北關處的管轄範圍導致對於到底誰要對這個管理產生模糊的地帶"},{"start":46.187,"end":74.333,"text":"到了2026年就今年度我們的花蓮女儀壇年初三發生了8歲男童的溺斃事件又同樣發生同樣的爭議地方說它僅負責營業許可管理機關是中央的縱管處並非地方政府因此縣府沒有任何法律義務或權限去訂定相關的一些營業管理的條例可是縱管處又說縣市政府應該去訂定來作為管理當地的一個業者的法律依據"},{"start":75.733,"end":104.493,"text":"部長 出事之後我們看到的標準公示就是中央說歸地方管 地方說中央管是這樣嗎部長 一條人命來不及長大孩子就這樣走了部長 我想TIT區的結果就是把風險提給無辜的受害人這大不是我們熱見的所以我們希望一起共同來去重視這個課題那 部長 所以請看這張圖花蓮縣政府在114年6月12號就廢止了相關管理程序"},{"start":105.393,"end":126.147,"text":"從廢止到今年初發生意外那整整半年的時間呢我們的鯉魚潭水域竟然處在一個法律跟檢查完全真空的狀態縱管處聲稱說拿不到安檢的一個資料顯然過去在這段時間這些天天載客的天鵝船動力船根本長期沒有依程序進行安檢"},{"start":126.827,"end":134.372,"text":"在國家風景區內竟然允許完全沒有安檢記錄的船隻違規營運所以部長請問一下為什麼會發生這種狀況是 報告委員確實發生不幸的事情我們希望風險能夠再降低就是說看到了問題我們希望能夠解決問題"},{"start":143.979,"end":163.797,"text":"那確實過去這段時間有一些法令上不周全或者是該執行而未執行的事情我們希望未來不要來發生那這個部分其實觀光署已經有跟這個花蓮縣政府有開會討論過大概有一些共識那未來也會想辦法該列管的部分要列管我是不是請署長先來回答一下"},{"start":165.907,"end":193.954,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個議題今年2月19號的那個事情真的是很遺憾因為發展台灣的觀光基本上是要中央跟地方政府共同合作所以我們這段時間檢討下來確實是彼此都有可能我覺得在法令上面有一些疑慮的地方所以這段時間我們也找了華麗縣政府共同討論彼此如何完善因為遊客的安全是最重要的事"},{"start":194.754,"end":212.483,"text":"對 可是不是只有花蓮這樣我想剛剛也講基隆 花蓮都這樣所以我說部長在管理方面是不是因為管理方面不能僅依照我們的發展觀光條例的第36條公告說哪裡不能玩例如公告特定的活動時間"},{"start":214.105,"end":229.88,"text":"劃定我們禁止進入的危險區或是針對違規的遊客要怎麼進行行政裁罰可是對於並沒有辦法這些都沒有辦法去做到說那你的輔具到底做安全管理怎麼去做是依據我們的輔具及人員操作的安全注意事項嗎"},{"start":231.061,"end":253.323,"text":"位階這麼低 這法律效果僅有命令位階沒有強制力也沒有相關法則所以部長對於這件事情針對於扶具是否有其他的法律管理或依據現行法律的配套措施是什麼報告委員 這個其實在各個地方的自治條例裡面可以去訂這個東西那我們也經過觀光署的關注我們全國的各個水上的"},{"start":254.503,"end":275.37,"text":"有遊玩的領域我們都做檢討那法令不足的部分我們現在民航局也有介入幫忙協助也是督導地方政府必須要制定這樣子的自治條例接下來會去制定嗎為什麼我這樣講你看這一份我們的航港局頒布的服務器具及人員操作安全注意事項那地方政府"},{"start":276.39,"end":292.904,"text":"並得視需要予以納管 視需要可是今天這些服務局到處都是的話你怎麼說視需要那他如果覺得沒需要就不用管理嗎這也就是說地方政府可以制定相關的安全規範就讓他們自己視需要所以部長再看右邊這張各縣市對照表"},{"start":295.626,"end":316.861,"text":"新北南投宜蘭都定有自治條例或者是管理辦法為什麼花蓮嘉義桃園等13個縣市可以沒有而造成了有的地方有罰則有的地方完全沒有安全檢查也不會有罰則的狀況發生所以部長我要請問是德市需要這四個字是不是就是地方政府可以繼續不作為"},{"start":317.942,"end":335.987,"text":"報告委員這個有分動力扶具跟非動力扶具非動力扶具我們比較有勸導也希望但是有動力扶具的部分這個危險性相對高一點我們會比較強制的作為希望能夠要求他們趕快來制定那這個部分局長可以再補充一下"},{"start":336.147,"end":362.223,"text":"因為時間關係我最後就是請你們盡速研擬相關法律不足的部分然後希望中央能夠訂定輔具跟動力小船的相關處罰規定而不是當發生事情的時候還是各推各的這是人命 請部長一定要重視這個問題謝謝 關心這個我們會納入然後各位拜託回去研擬的時候也希望找民間團體一起討論好 謝謝非常感謝林月"}]}},{"id":"168162","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168162","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106ca600aa7780cbdd6be62ad2ff7c69481570bdfb2511f2cb5c5ab69b334a180b4b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王安祥","委員發言時間":"12:21:07 - 12:26:33","影片長度":"00:05:26","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:21:07+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:26:33+08:00","duration":326,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.52409375,"end":5.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.71784375,"end":7.371593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.371593750000001,"end":8.654093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.687843750000003,"end":9.109718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.239718750000002,"end":15.117218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.442218750000002,"end":14.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.57721875,"end":14.610968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.47159375,"end":73.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.75784375,"end":102.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.62221875,"end":78.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.29659375,"end":82.34721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.34721875000001,"end":82.75221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.75221875000001,"end":82.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.84909375000001,"end":84.01784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.54471875,"end":87.66284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.96846875,"end":138.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.86159375,"end":142.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.68409375000002,"end":141.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.10596875000002,"end":141.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.82284375,"end":173.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.38784375,"end":176.49284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.03721875000002,"end":204.35346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.00284375,"end":180.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.37034375000002,"end":204.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.38721875000002,"end":275.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.43096875000003,"end":291.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.25534375,"end":324.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.74346875000003,"end":303.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.96659375,"end":304.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.30096875000004,"end":325.53284375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.865,"end":6.971,"text":"主席好 有請部長跟觀光署陳署長陳部長還有陳署長是"},{"start":14.524,"end":40.945,"text":"部長早我今天來質詢主要是針對3月16號我們有一個新的方案就是9000萬的促進新旅遊的補助方案我想現在對於旅遊的促進其實我覺得還是有一定程度的幫助只是因為前一陣子我們看到我們的一些觀光景點發生一些狀況我想在座大家比較清楚的就是那時候"},{"start":42.126,"end":58.882,"text":"在我們南投發生的遊園車的部分更早的部分在花蓮旅遊團這邊也有一些天鵝船的部分因為我過去在學校其實都做安全跟災害預防的研究所以我是想問的是說因為這個補助其實振興旅遊產業比較多"},{"start":62.265,"end":86.966,"text":"是不是可以把這個所謂的安全的改善這些安全的品質或者是一些災害的預防放在這個補助的方案裡面因為現在看起來好像教育訓練什麼好像項目比較多一點報告委員您所提的那個九千萬的部分它主要是針對旅行社那因為針對旅行社所以這個可能就是人員的教育還有它的數位化還有它永續的部分數位轉型跟永續的部分作為重點"},{"start":87.887,"end":102.083,"text":"那您在提的這個安全的部分不一定會放在這個計畫裡面但是安全確實很重要我們是不是請觀光署可以的話我們想辦法用其他的方面來做安全的這個檢討跟安全的協助跟補助"},{"start":102.964,"end":127.244,"text":"我想這個大家每次看到這樣的消息其實大家都是非常快樂的出遊其實大家都非常的不捨所以希望不只是這個九千萬希望有其他 剛剛部長說有其他的方式可以增進這些旅遊的業者他這些的觀念我想交易訓練裡面也可以放到一些這些所謂的強化這些知能那另外就是其實想到這個事就想到那個日月潭的那個電動船的部分"},{"start":128.365,"end":142.485,"text":"我們這邊也去查了一些資料好像那個我們有做了一些那個KPI嘛好像目前的算還有一些距離不曉得署長那邊的看法是怎麼樣就是有關日月潭的電動船的部分這個部分補助是在航港局是不是航港局能來回答好不好"},{"start":144.2,"end":162.359,"text":"我想為了營造一個低碳的旅遊環境我想我們跟光屬合作現在我們新推出了全國內水電動化的一個計畫這裡面有六個水域總共有57艘的業者"},{"start":164.581,"end":179.67,"text":"要來參與我們這個計畫我們會給予大概49%這樣的補助日月潭的部分總共有32艘好像要到115馬上就要到了我們目前計畫部裡面已經抱怨了"},{"start":180.43,"end":203.273,"text":"那奉合之後我們就會來推動那日月潭的部分有32艘32艘是佔他們目前這個營運大概60幾艘的將近半數所以也就是說大概118年左右118、119左右將近日月潭有半數的這個載客船舶他是以電動化的方式來營運的"},{"start":204.774,"end":216.28,"text":"我今天提這個 兩個其實是同樣的概念不管是安全 健康 或者是永續我想現在都是我們國家追求的目標所以我這邊有幾個重點也請部長能夠採納"},{"start":220.942,"end":238.842,"text":"基本上我認為我們觀光產業除了我們要振興它提升它的一些發展之外其實建立一套好的管理制度導入一些安全預防災害的概念我覺得這個也蠻重要的也就是說我們過去在管理一些產業的時候常常會建立一些燈號"},{"start":240.163,"end":267.335,"text":"那把這個風險高的這些產業或是這些事業單位把它標出來我希望公關也慢慢可以做這樣的事情尤其他們最近如果發現一些最重大的這些這個公關安全的事情是不是可以把它標註出來然後日後嚴格地來做一些管考那當然我剛剛前面就說了我希望有一些經費上可以挹注在這個提升安全跟這個危害預防的這個部分不知道部長"},{"start":267.995,"end":291.65,"text":"是不是可以進一步有一些接下來不管等一下回答或是接下來給我們一些裡面的想法是感謝委員的關心安全確實是相當重要尤其我們最近社會有看到一些觀光的過程當中發生的一些安全疑慮的問題那這個部分我們也請觀光署把這個列為一個很重要的項目我們來做這個更大的關注跟更大的協助"},{"start":292.35,"end":309.341,"text":"是 所以剛剛說那個就是我們九千萬裡面的那個有一部分是種教育訓練我剛剛說了是不是可以在教育訓練的這個項目對 就有一些這種項目因為通常會有一個pool嘛那個有一些這個課程的名稱希望有把一些安全"},{"start":310.282,"end":324.41,"text":"那因為其實現在很多安全其實我們都有一些自治的方式我們事前的做一些風險評估他們比如說像現在有人可能他可能管理上就非常的困難因為他可能也不是正式的車輛那這個提供這個教務者參考謝謝好 謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"168118","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168118","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c1b70ddb1208957288b964e64394a70074047e563c2ae1609ff736705a4ade47f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"10:36:33 - 10:44:48","影片長度":"00:08:15","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況（含上會期臨時提案辦理情形），並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:36:33+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:44:48+08:00","duration":495,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-5-15-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.072218750000001,"end":10.442843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.184718750000002,"end":24.044093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.43221875,"end":32.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.17784375,"end":39.501593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.27034375,"end":34.979093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.58659375,"end":38.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.56909375,"end":68.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.907843750000005,"end":59.127218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.98221875,"end":88.92846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.23221875,"end":125.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.27284375,"end":151.19721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.92284375,"end":155.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.39471875,"end":163.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.71846875,"end":166.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.45221875000001,"end":169.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.02971875,"end":172.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.29096875000002,"end":175.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.96971875,"end":177.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.77534375000002,"end":178.18034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.61909375000002,"end":191.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.88284375,"end":280.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.49346875000003,"end":280.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.93221875,"end":297.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.01409375000003,"end":297.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.36846875000003,"end":297.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.57096875,"end":302.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.20284375,"end":305.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.51784375,"end":313.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.53471875,"end":314.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.22659375,"end":314.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.29409375,"end":315.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.55971875,"end":316.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.82534375,"end":336.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.02471875000003,"end":341.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.24346875000003,"end":346.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.03596875,"end":347.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.39846875,"end":352.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.68471875,"end":355.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.21159375,"end":360.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.63284375,"end":365.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.99909375000004,"end":369.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.55971875,"end":409.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.22846875000005,"end":410.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.97096875000005,"end":493.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.18596875000003,"end":494.89034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.89034375000006,"end":495.56534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.367,"end":10.171,"text":"好 謝謝主 呃 謝謝我們主席啊我們請我們的谷主委好 董議員齁 那個主委好齁那個剛才呢 很多的委員都提到我們的客家幣我們的客家幣是 我不曉得講的那個對不對啊 就主要是我們"},{"start":34.011,"end":40.236,"text":"所以我們這一次的客家幣跟過去的客庄券它有一些不一樣主要它其中除了希望能夠振興我們客庄的經濟消費之外還有一個就是要去推廣讓更多的人能夠去講客家話沒有錯吧"},{"start":60.049,"end":73.344,"text":"但是呢我想這次的這個客家幣因為它有一些特約商店我去查了一下我必須要講就說我查了一下在整個的客家幣它的特約商店裡面我們的雙北啊並沒有特約商店雙北沒有特約商店那我覺得這是非常遺憾的事情"},{"start":81.172,"end":84.557,"text":"因為雖然我們知道比如說像新竹、苗栗、桃園有很多客家莊但是在雙北地區客家人口的排行其實是很多的"},{"start":97.156,"end":124.145,"text":"這個我想主委也知道一定很清楚所以像新北市在我們各縣市裡面我們新北市是排名第二佔16.7%我們台北市也排名第四佔17.4%所以呢如果以新北跟台北雙北啊他大概有36%的客家人口之多那同樣的我相信我們在這一次的如果透過客家幣除了要這個這個"},{"start":126.686,"end":155.306,"text":"這個振興消費之外還有一個就是能夠讓更多的人口能夠接觸客家化來講客家化那麼但是雙北沒有是不是就我覺得就是美中不足的地方所以在這邊我是不是也可以具體的來爭取雖然已經這個就是它的時間已經有一段時間是不是可以來爭取就是像這個雙北地區它也有很多的客家人口"},{"start":156.425,"end":165.65,"text":"好 感謝文委員 確實在1點我們沒有開封都市提起 只有在學總提起因為我們剛才還在這樣上演然後委員提出在雙北地區我們2.0 今年開市在2.0開封全台灣的省點但是最主要還是要外公學的省點 真是要用學法來"},{"start":184.66,"end":190.826,"text":"稍微他的交易的語言一樣會捏到當然的特約商店"},{"start":192.263,"end":220.828,"text":"我想我剛剛講其實因為雙北它也有非常多的客家人口那其實我們在一些大眾運輸我們也都一定這個客家化也一定是必備的那所以如果說未來就是各縣市能夠特約商店能夠推廣到各縣市我們絕對是樂見而我本身至少台北市我也幫這個雙北地區一起請命因為我們是一日生活圈一日的通行圈"},{"start":221.508,"end":227.81,"text":"那另外就是我們現在客家幣的這個政策預估是說可以創造4.6億元的產值這個是當時我們客委會所做的這個報告但是如果你去看過去的客庄旅遊券那這個是這個"},{"start":241.374,"end":249.2,"text":"中央政府總預算裡面所提到的就是比如說客庄旅遊券的1.0 2.0它的經費一共是3.5億元一共3.5億元那它帶動的民間消費金額達到23億元"},{"start":258.107,"end":280.084,"text":"所以如果兩相比較的話那麼看起來恐怕我們客家幣所要創造的產值就要再加一把勁就要再加一把勁因為也許就說過去當然也是因為疫情的關係它是因為疫情的關係才開始出現的客庄券所以這一部分希望就是能夠更為加強好不好"},{"start":281.606,"end":284.909,"text":"時間暫停一下謝謝主委我請客家電視台台長"},{"start":317.154,"end":335.553,"text":"我要特別講一下就是客家廚房這個節目我們所看到其實在我們很多的政府的宣傳裡面客家廚房算是比較成功的他討論度也很高然後他的這個就是也得了不少獎"},{"start":337.074,"end":346.905,"text":"那我想直接先請教因為有第一季第二季請問一下那客家廚房有沒有規劃進行第三季的製播"},{"start":348.444,"end":367.926,"text":"首先想問VN的肯定非常感謝委員的肯定因為你那些學校天使隊第一輩有台灣的學校同一堂課堂他跟自己說香港不論做天洋也要做幾條溪都做得很好故事我就是希望說像台灣學校"},{"start":369.608,"end":371.929,"text":"包括文化、內容、設策等東西大家都看過去電視機、電視機、電視機、電視機、電視機、電視機、電視機、電視機"},{"start":386.017,"end":397.604,"text":"就像馬來西亞的Astro在亞洲上也在見面同時同時都希望有機會做第三季不過若是說NVIDIA前十年在其中有很多很貴的民生看他們的動機和他們在亞洲上的營業持續到台灣的客家店舖合作不過這會成為我們技術大變的目標"},{"start":410.653,"end":437.684,"text":"我必須要講就是說事實上我們作為監督者這個民意代表如果政府單位有做到好的地方我們也應該要拍拍手的但是我們就是會做一個強力的監督那因為我覺得客家廚房它是在我們很多你今天看各部會的這個相關的行銷它算是成功的案例它真的是成功的案例所以第一個第三季你可能有一些就是你要看到檔期的問題"},{"start":438.584,"end":448.408,"text":"那另外呢因為我們剛剛特別提到就是有關於我們的客家的旅遊美食還有我們客家莊的消費怎麼樣創生客家等等那這個節目呢當然因為它是一個實境秀因為它也到韓國去拍攝它會變成是說把這個我們的這個客家廚房客家美食把它帶到了一個國際性的討論而且因為它用實境秀的方式現在和實境秀非常非常的紅嘛"},{"start":468.137,"end":468.157,"text":"謝謝美營"}]}},{"id":"168117","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168117","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c5d912b7b1ad937708b964e64394a70074047e563c2ae1609ff736705a4ade47f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"10:29:06 - 10:36:16","影片長度":"00:07:10","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況（含上會期臨時提案辦理情形），並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:29:06+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:36:16+08:00","duration":430,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-5-15-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.53284375,"end":2.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.629093750000001,"end":9.329093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.14284375,"end":38.252843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.69159375,"end":41.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.38721875,"end":49.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.55909375,"end":54.790343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.04346875,"end":57.40596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.659093750000004,"end":62.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.789093750000006,"end":73.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.99409375,"end":75.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.39471875000001,"end":75.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.86721875,"end":81.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.52034375000001,"end":82.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.58784375,"end":81.94221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.41471875,"end":94.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.42971875,"end":112.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.14659375000001,"end":97.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.18784375000001,"end":103.22159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.37346875,"end":103.40721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.40721875000001,"end":103.42409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.42409375000001,"end":103.47471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.97534375000001,"end":116.53596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.07596875,"end":122.44221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.86409375000001,"end":126.89721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.89721875000001,"end":127.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.28534375000001,"end":133.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.37721875,"end":138.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.57471875000002,"end":147.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.31596875,"end":157.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.49159375000002,"end":157.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.13284375,"end":161.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.62596875,"end":174.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.55221875,"end":188.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.16596875000002,"end":193.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.14846875,"end":193.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.40159375000002,"end":241.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.20221875000001,"end":200.89409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.35284375,"end":208.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.91721875000002,"end":245.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.37659375,"end":245.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.51159375,"end":245.57909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.57909375000003,"end":248.14409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.61284375000002,"end":245.71409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.34659375,"end":263.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.14221875000004,"end":262.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.26409375000003,"end":277.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.52346875,"end":277.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.84409375,"end":284.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.61096875000004,"end":286.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.73721875,"end":288.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.77909375,"end":308.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.32034375,"end":315.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.91409375,"end":331.43909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.75971875000005,"end":334.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.18534375,"end":336.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.36221875,"end":342.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.98159375,"end":343.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.53846875000005,"end":344.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.44971875000005,"end":353.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.99721875,"end":352.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.95034375,"end":383.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.97096875,"end":399.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.63096875,"end":400.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.09909375,"end":401.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.90909375,"end":401.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.92596875000004,"end":402.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.49971875,"end":404.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.33909375,"end":409.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.48596875000004,"end":416.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.30346875000004,"end":419.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.00346875,"end":428.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.63971875000004,"end":424.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.86721875,"end":428.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.31846875,"end":428.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.90471875000003,"end":430.63034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.701,"end":2.823,"text":"感謝主席 還有有請顧主委市委員"},{"start":14.897,"end":21.699,"text":"主委我們要請松仗業在屏東県拜面感謝六隊運動會還有珠天驛站跟佛通法院的主委請指揮屏東的六隊來跟我們加油不過有機的問題"},{"start":36.066,"end":56.459,"text":"還是要請主席提出,主席,如果客家幣1.0的政策,去年半月多一萬,我們的消費金額多1億,我們要請改動,當然我們看到改動,改革的量額的績效,改革的成果,今天有打算推2.0的版本嗎?"},{"start":58.314,"end":74.847,"text":"有,我們要在目前體驗進行當中,而折磨第二階段好,我們在討論的報告以下說,我們要發放的對象只要由我們受到合格的中科學生和老師中科的內容"},{"start":75.447,"end":77.289,"text":"目前有擴大,本來還是有維持,通過行業認證、行業家庭、對象、意外、學校、參議、學校課程、學生都有利用"},{"start":94.765,"end":101.072,"text":"主委,我記得我宋白的委員會有討論過一個問題,他們也希望可以推出一個客家認證的政策規劃,讓很多學生、學生生意的人可以靠這個思考,同時有這個獎勵,但是我們看到靠思考的,"},{"start":113.324,"end":134.327,"text":"實際上在人們的生活的面向,雙口味面向,讓他們說合法的記載,他記載過程中又沒有改動,我們想這個政策是不是有點沒有很弱勢,因為時刻有這個問題,主委有什麼看法嗎?也不算啦,通過認證跟要用合法去交通的事情,沒有按摩的關係,"},{"start":135.748,"end":144.477,"text":"但是認真做的台本、聲音、或是文人,一個英雄會有很榮耀的方式所以我們透過過度的鑑託,比方說過度的創作,包括洋相的創作、戲劇的創作等等,來鼓勵使用學法,因為像學生那些"},{"start":158.271,"end":163.674,"text":"媒介,就在運作的用途之下,比其他學家講學的重點,去做對話所以其實我們都在想要運用的用途方法,就在本人有機會講學一件事情"},{"start":175.039,"end":192.713,"text":"主委,我會提醒市府,如果政策推動改善,但是希望透過推動合格比的政策2.0,使本人的聲音和總批有夠多機會更好、更講,讓有好家文化傳承的意涵存在"},{"start":193.493,"end":207.928,"text":"主委 如果要做的話可能要思考一下啦不是 變成像你前兩年發的那些客家傳承沒有幫你綁住綁住都沒差的啦這件事 希望我提醒你的地方啦"},{"start":209.009,"end":216.618,"text":"今天我想感謝我們的主委,我們屏東的文化發電機的政策,改革後,包含我們重資萬萬女僕的古書和新筆,我們的圖書館,我們想要空間改造,我們將樂觀啟程。"},{"start":224.887,"end":239.717,"text":"品種那六堆文化的核心地帶,我們想不是只有硬體建設做好越好,也就是軟體的未來怎麼樣強化,甚至本業的老人家、生育的、學生的,我們用去使用圖書館,主要有什麼看法?"},{"start":242.194,"end":245.896,"text":"目前黑格斯已經辦公在圖書館,我們會贊出有關合格的書籍,放在圖書館內,我們會由合法鞏固師,顧理,提供人權,"},{"start":263.383,"end":270.508,"text":"鼓勵大家去審慎經濟還有行業公司營業、公共公司營業、日報、圖書館用合法來講解的公司所以我們提供的能力也要用來提升"},{"start":278.195,"end":292.631,"text":"主委,我實際上在徒手間,未來針對日台協商的一等於一百塊,家屬的比例,應該要做一些調查,其實我可以說,如果要做好,也要給我們的公司一定壓力"},{"start":293.872,"end":300.336,"text":"鄉長或館長其實應該有責任,譬如台灣主委說的,我們重用補助金幣去判法通,但是我們嚴重要求他再重視那一塊,但是我們鄉鎮一定要加油,主委要再考慮,譬如天書嗎?絕對,我們一不用詞,而天書提供說,感染閱讀的習慣要避免,"},{"start":315.916,"end":335.917,"text":"好 我想事件講到那裡 因為我們在客房中心 謝主任也在現場謝主任昨天早上他在說他對核和文化要重視還有六堆文化園區 我想都有一些例行的活動攀但是主任有什麼想法"},{"start":337.621,"end":346.745,"text":"好像每一年應該要推陳促進去那樣,要泛民不窮的同時,你也想辦法嗎?陸隊我願意去,之前陸隊在講,是講改革法,我們用陸隊來連結如果不在鄉鎮我們用來連結"},{"start":354.088,"end":371.351,"text":"事主啊,當然,因為這樣可以被吸引入來嘛,這樣就被廖家的核桿文化都可以研究了。當然,入對核桿的團體,那可以入入在北部研究,會帶動核桿的入入,入對文化研究的方式啦。"},{"start":372.553,"end":382.36,"text":"平常是這樣辦法通,法通有六個團體可以保養,可能對六個團體發展會有幫助我拜託主委一件事情,原區當然法通很重要,但是希望法內鄉鎮應該要行處理,要辦法內鄉鎮有盲窮用的法通比如說我們宣佈客家傳播基金會,也有針對我們的"},{"start":401.118,"end":420.773,"text":"不用去聽人家的說話,要給佛陀佛陀就讓人家去好安寧,夜間的露天電影院的形態就這樣培植我們的劇團,不用去開堤防做表演主委要支持這樣嗎?我們願意來,主委支持我們時代下,有什麼想法,我們跟主委討論一下拜託謝主委,我們就聽主委,感謝感謝市委員"}]}},{"id":"168116","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168116","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106ce32e657d79d48f2f8b964e64394a70074047e563c2ae1609a854e45adebac5195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"10:20:26 - 10:28:32","影片長度":"00:08:06","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況（含上會期臨時提案辦理情形），並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:20:26+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:28:32+08:00","duration":486,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-5-15-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.8240937500000001,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.61971875,"end":15.353468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.74159375,"end":18.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.926593750000002,"end":27.570968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.035968750000002,"end":22.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.621593750000002,"end":31.249718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.367843750000002,"end":33.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.713468750000004,"end":35.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.00846875,"end":60.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.523468750000006,"end":67.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.10471875,"end":74.77034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.12471875,"end":75.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.15409375,"end":77.31846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.43659375,"end":86.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.88659375,"end":89.50221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.29534375,"end":90.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.97034375000001,"end":95.88096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.54346875,"end":95.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.01596875,"end":100.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.42034375,"end":102.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.75346875000001,"end":102.36096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.71534375,"end":103.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.08659375,"end":107.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.18721875,"end":110.19096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.40659375000001,"end":107.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.06846875000001,"end":112.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.97534375000001,"end":113.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.00909375,"end":113.31284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.31284375000001,"end":126.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.44284375000001,"end":118.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.96471875,"end":134.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.76096875000002,"end":135.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.67221875,"end":146.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.04596875000001,"end":150.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.12971875000002,"end":151.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.87221875,"end":153.28971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.57659375,"end":162.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.62159375000002,"end":163.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.39784375000002,"end":166.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.44409375,"end":164.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.53659375,"end":169.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.43471875,"end":177.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.45096875000002,"end":174.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.72471875000002,"end":180.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.72846875000002,"end":186.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.99346875,"end":190.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.19096875000002,"end":199.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.40909375,"end":200.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.65784375,"end":217.78596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.95471875,"end":225.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.18971875000003,"end":231.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.72034375,"end":233.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.73284375000003,"end":247.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.81909375,"end":253.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.88159375,"end":259.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.70346875,"end":264.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.78284375000004,"end":266.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.07784375,"end":275.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.02159375,"end":278.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.92409375,"end":283.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.34534375000004,"end":288.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.42471875,"end":295.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.20409375,"end":296.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.04784375,"end":300.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.49034375,"end":302.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.15659375,"end":309.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.85596875000005,"end":310.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.95284375,"end":313.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.03659375,"end":317.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.12909375000004,"end":319.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.09909375,"end":321.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.80346875000004,"end":327.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.65909375,"end":333.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.95346875,"end":334.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.10096875000005,"end":353.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.64846875,"end":342.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.64659375,"end":354.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.31721875,"end":356.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.51534375,"end":358.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.62471875,"end":361.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.69596875,"end":364.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.42971875,"end":365.05409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.81784375,"end":368.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.44596875,"end":371.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.93909375000004,"end":373.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.37346875000003,"end":373.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.14971875000003,"end":387.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.29284375000003,"end":376.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.97471875,"end":394.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.53471875,"end":397.89284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.14596875,"end":416.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.06284375,"end":419.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.33659375,"end":423.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.23471875,"end":427.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.81221875,"end":439.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.59534375000004,"end":440.08034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.80596875000003,"end":461.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.88284375,"end":464.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.12284375,"end":469.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.66221875,"end":470.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.53971875,"end":472.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.34534375000004,"end":480.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.93471875000006,"end":484.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.34346875000006,"end":485.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.68096875000003,"end":486.75659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.76096875,"end":486.23346875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.794,"end":1.755,"text":"我非常肯定這兩個政策的"},{"start":30.21,"end":37.339,"text":"但我認為這兩個政策應該是從規模的擴張走向我們的實質的深化"},{"start":38.075,"end":60.582,"text":"首先我要肯定 客委會這幾年的努力 包括財富戰確實做出規模了不過今年3月已經增加到611站 特別是在苗栗 桃園 新竹這幾個客家的重點區那個網路也非常的密 客委會也持續我們擴張高齡照顧的場域 值得認同可是我要特別提醒主委"},{"start":61.562,"end":89.431,"text":"包括這副站已經不是一個事半的階段而是正式納入到長照3.0的核心政策當規模做到後我們必須面對兩個嚴肅的問題一個是實際的照顧的人數 二是那個預算被稀釋所以主委站點在擴張可是每個站分配的資源在縮水如何確保這611站的服務品質不被稀釋而不是被淪為西極巷弄的一個長照站多掛一個牌子而已"},{"start":91.483,"end":92.203,"text":"那是很務實的,不然我們就會減少占點"},{"start":112.145,"end":140.645,"text":"這個是很兩難的決策所謂站點要夠淺才有辦法做到一定的規模所以外界常有疑慮認為博工照護站跟衛福部的西級的長照站高度重疊雖然地方回應有增加課宇的志工老幼共學等元素可是我們還是要講清楚博工照護站究竟只是文化加值的據點還是在高齡支持體系中"},{"start":141.089,"end":169.781,"text":"有補上的其他部會做不到的哪些不可替代的一個功能先跟VM報告我們博工照護站還是要架構在衛福部西級相當據點之上有這個基本我們才有才能夠來申請這是第一個第二個是我們英文這語言是很有魔力很有魅力很有溫暖的"},{"start":170.721,"end":190.667,"text":"那這個語言是長輩習慣的語言那通常那個教師用他要學發他熟悉的語言他的那個信任感,他的各種的會增加很多所以你意思是說,白宮政府在老十幾年沒有強調那是英文語言"},{"start":191.226,"end":214.702,"text":"以你贊助這個政府的方式我們看到目前市級相當照顧站有各部份用的比如說我們今年試著要將繪本導入這個照顧的方式所以有批本、有合法、有疏寫的、速錄的再來就是歐益本、我們的帳篇"},{"start":220.286,"end":247.437,"text":"也有它的自主性 自主的可能所以 也要讓另外一個人替大家撥分 做到抵押上來的也希望 也要提出三個具體的要求一個月內 實際上希望 主委這邊可以提交功能深化跟品質的精進報告因為我覺得還是要去做一些區隔"},{"start":248.871,"end":272.543,"text":"主委剛剛講說有些語言的功能我們還是希望能夠在如何補助在受壓縮的狀況下如果達成2026的服務人數的目標還有我覺得還是要去釐清跨部會的協力機制否則這兩個人家會分不太清楚還有預算的指標的轉型就是說不是只有我們的站點數而且要增列到底服務的總人數跟資源不足的補強的"},{"start":273.749,"end":301.556,"text":"主要的那個成果是什麼再來我們就要來問客家幣因為我覺得這也事實上是人做得不錯的地方因為客委會推客家幣的那個方向我認為事實上是有政策上的一個意義在不僅鼓勵到我們的客語的傳承也為了那個活絡客庄的一個經濟可是有兩個目標的情況下我覺得下一步是不是要更要把這個政策的那個排序講得清楚所以想問主委客家幣已經進入到2.0階段了"},{"start":303.226,"end":329.523,"text":"在講客生活圈的這個大方向下哪些語言傳承的核心設計哪些是店家上線支付工具跟核銷系統的配套工作感謝美燕其實它在2.0還有它再提出的因為1.0它是具有稅籍的店家才可以申請但是2.0加入自然人"},{"start":329.923,"end":332.025,"text":"也會這樣,因為我們看到在合同上,不只是傳統的市場,還會有自然人在做交易,所以我們應該用英語納進來,擴大講課的範圍,還有交易範圍,所以部分很不一樣的。"},{"start":357.488,"end":371.208,"text":"地推人員讓自然人進來自然人會懷疑你是不是詐騙集團所以要透過在地熟悉的網路地推人員去宣導這個不是"},{"start":372.369,"end":397.695,"text":"然後來協助鄉村、學總、學總提起要數位能力支付比較差的長輩而且他又是所謂的商店方的人主委可是你今年也提到未來客家幣可能朝開放全年齡逐步放寬店家範圍就不再限定客庄的店家的方向"},{"start":398.223,"end":419.518,"text":"我覺得這個政策延伸真的要去討論因為我也諮詢那個客委會這個做法未來能不能守住把人帶進那個客庄讓客語進入到日常生活的原始設計當政策往全零的時候非客庄的店家擴大時那主委說明一下如何守住原本對客庄的重點支持"},{"start":420.736,"end":431.946,"text":"客庄還是比較有大比例 客廳比例會使用合法 客廳比例在肚子的還是更少 所以我們評估在學生底部的點和營業 還是會更多因為時間關係"},{"start":441.051,"end":463.009,"text":"請我們注意是不是針對客家幣2.0我大概提出四個要求就是一樣就是在1.0結束的一個月內是不是能夠提交檢討跟2.0的設計的對照報告還有我就要公佈我們的查核標準因為這是上路前應該明文規定一個你的密客的查核機制對方到底有沒有講客家法"},{"start":465.199,"end":483.875,"text":"然後指標的獨立的拆分就是說把下一年度的預算當中把績效那個強制拆分為語言傳承的指標跟客庄的經濟指標不要混淆視聽還要釐清我們的工具的分工就客家幣跟客庄的產業價值的補助的一個角色跟排序跟分工好 謝謝 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168115","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168115","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c3d004ec0f0ffc7c58b964e64394a70074047e563c2ae1609a854e45adebac5195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"10:12:45 - 10:20:15","影片長度":"00:07:30","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況（含上會期臨時提案辦理情形），並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:12:45+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:20:15+08:00","duration":450,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-5-15-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.36846875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.472843750000001,"end":10.847843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.269718750000003,"end":13.699718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.10846875,"end":19.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.62284375,"end":25.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.360343750000002,"end":29.511593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.680343750000002,"end":33.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.96659375,"end":34.017218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.118468750000005,"end":55.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.02221875,"end":63.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.16909375,"end":61.557218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.31221875000001,"end":67.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.13409375,"end":71.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.35721875,"end":75.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.10346875,"end":77.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.80784375,"end":82.97159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.17409375000001,"end":85.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.35971875,"end":83.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.77284375,"end":87.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.44346875000001,"end":93.73784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.26096875,"end":96.65721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.92721875000001,"end":97.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.00721875,"end":99.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.67784375000001,"end":103.18784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.62659375000001,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.22534375000001,"end":107.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.06471875000001,"end":109.95471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.34284375,"end":122.44221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.71659375,"end":122.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.64471875000001,"end":126.79596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.53846875,"end":128.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.70284375,"end":129.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.68159375000002,"end":133.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.90034375000002,"end":134.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.55409375000002,"end":138.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.97971875000002,"end":142.79346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.70909375000002,"end":143.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.22784375,"end":144.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.29534375,"end":144.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.54846875,"end":144.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.97034375,"end":144.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.37534375,"end":150.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.70784375000002,"end":152.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.34471875,"end":152.90159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.90159375000002,"end":156.69846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.12096875,"end":153.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.69846875000002,"end":158.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.98096875000002,"end":164.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.89159375,"end":170.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.10971875,"end":178.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.89346875,"end":182.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.95596875,"end":191.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.03471875000002,"end":194.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.65034375000002,"end":199.22346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.59471875000003,"end":202.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.73346875000001,"end":205.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.90596875,"end":214.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.38971875000001,"end":215.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.14909375000002,"end":224.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.99159375000002,"end":244.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.70159375000003,"end":249.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.10221875000002,"end":246.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.25784375,"end":257.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.98221875,"end":258.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.01159375000003,"end":270.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.79034375000003,"end":289.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.86346875000004,"end":289.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.74096875000004,"end":289.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.97721875,"end":290.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.12909375000004,"end":290.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.36534375,"end":290.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.61846875000003,"end":290.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.80409375,"end":291.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.03596875,"end":298.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.70159375000003,"end":302.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.39721875000004,"end":302.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.15659375,"end":303.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.05096875000004,"end":306.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.86909375000005,"end":308.23596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.59034375000005,"end":310.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.69971875000005,"end":321.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.97221875,"end":325.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.38096875,"end":327.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.72659375,"end":331.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.89471875000004,"end":332.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.80596875000003,"end":334.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.15159375,"end":350.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.28846875000005,"end":352.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.00534375,"end":363.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.63659375000003,"end":366.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.77534375000005,"end":378.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.79034375000003,"end":380.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.15721875,"end":382.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.17784375,"end":383.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.63346875,"end":385.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.84409375,"end":387.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.12221875,"end":397.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.88159375000004,"end":388.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.91534375000003,"end":388.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.30221875,"end":397.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.77471875000003,"end":410.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.24534375,"end":413.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.21534375000005,"end":415.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.84784375000004,"end":421.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.80471875,"end":422.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.58096875,"end":428.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.94284375,"end":430.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.11971875,"end":433.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.17034375000003,"end":432.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.80284375,"end":434.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.35534375000003,"end":437.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.70096875,"end":441.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.22784375000003,"end":444.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.57346875,"end":445.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.36221875,"end":446.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.23971875,"end":447.67409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.71221875000003,"end":446.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.62346875000003,"end":447.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.70784375000005,"end":447.74159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.07909375,"end":448.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.72034375000004,"end":448.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.77096875,"end":448.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.95659375,"end":449.63159375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.512,"end":28.56,"text":"好謝謝有請谷主委跟宋董事長好請谷主委跟宋董事長好謝謝主委跟主委這邊追蹤一下我在上一次在去年10月15號就針對客家幣使用的情形來提出質詢"},{"start":29.967,"end":51.628,"text":"當初我包含我主張擴大發放對象那我主張避免數位落差那我也主張希望如果這些兒童沒有金融卡有要擴大使用要怎麼樣克服這些障礙那我看到今年客家幣的這個實施包含所有這個你剛剛有"},{"start":53.55,"end":71.196,"text":"回答其他委員的問題有說有所有有學課語的這些有課程的這些小朋友都有這個資格了那我覺得這個是很好的我今天要跟主委討論這個政策的內容是說很可惜啦這個是去年度的預算"},{"start":72.403,"end":81.567,"text":"那去年度的預算我們如果說執行的很好我們今年到現在3月的3月為止是執行你剛說的1.3億執行率60%"},{"start":85.831,"end":102.453,"text":"那有機會今年是可以執行率達標,是達到我們完全執行完我們的預算那執行完我們的預算呢,其實就是在推廣這個課宇的使用這也是課委會最重要的工作之一"},{"start":103.675,"end":126.682,"text":"那很遺憾沒有辦法增加的話那如果可以增加的話主委你想要做什麼做什麼樣更推廣更多人來使用客家幣那更多人來用課與消費等等的這些文化來主委你有沒有什麼想法還是說預算沒有過沿用去年的我們就繼續這樣做就好了"},{"start":127.608,"end":148.426,"text":"感謝美燕今年2.0增加課與學習的學生的使用光是這樣子光是這樣子就吃掉我們所有的預算這我們非常肯定對 但是我們就沒有機會再開放給"},{"start":150.939,"end":177.825,"text":"這就需要新興計劃嘛 是沒有多的新興計劃就沒有機會嘛我們預算就不足 新興計劃送過來如果立法院不審你們就沒有機會增加嘛 是我的同仁也很傷腦筋 我一直說18歲以上的非客級的也有機會來我們同仁都說沒有預算沒有錢這樣所以這是比較可惜的地方"},{"start":178.325,"end":194.059,"text":"每個委員,尤其是有選區的委員,或者是代表客家族群的委員其實都很希望這些相關的經費可以增加可以推廣,包含客語的使用,包含這些海外的我們的"},{"start":195.079,"end":213.675,"text":"客家族群的一些你們今年有在巴西有舉辦的這個活動那包含這個博工的照護站那包含你們也跟子豐車合作在地方做這個客語的推廣的演出那包含其他我今天剛剛請這個董事長上來就是要講戲劇方面"},{"start":216.246,"end":233.228,"text":"其實戲劇也不能完全用這個收潤或者是票房來衡量我覺得該投資客與環境,該投資或者是客與戲劇相關的這些內容我覺得我們還是要"},{"start":234.489,"end":256.984,"text":"不要怕失敗,還是要有價值的對客語推廣或者是客家文化有價值相關的戲劇我覺得我還是鼓勵我們客委會跟我們基金會要持續的來投入來請董事長來做一個回應我剛剛看到你,看了錢怎麼會怕,看到賠錢怎麼會怕但是這次就是要推廣,推廣就是要花錢"},{"start":260.186,"end":281.077,"text":"謝謝張偉的提點事實上一部影片的話就是沒有辦法說完全只用票房來決定它的價值它在於這個文化的面向在歷史的面向還有在人民情感人民的記憶的這個面向是有很多的"},{"start":282.257,"end":309.854,"text":"這些不能用這個票房的價錢去運算的這些的價值所以我的選區齁其實有大量的過去海軍的這個眷村那海軍眷村他移走了之後呢我們過去我曾經在高雄市政府的時候那也跟高雄市政府文化局"},{"start":310.774,"end":327.036,"text":"那也跟國防部還有中央文化部,費了好大一番功夫把這個眷村保留下來,做眷村文化保留園區保留的是什麼?保留的不是只有眷村那一個殼,保留的是眷村的文化"},{"start":327.796,"end":351.939,"text":"那我們客委會現在做的很重要的事情除了保留剛剛主委講的要讓客語的使用率止跌之外我覺得這個客家文化的保存還有包含你在推廣這些商店的客語消費這個客家文化的保存是非常非常值得我們再投入更多的心力讓"},{"start":353.88,"end":382.416,"text":"客委會讓所有的客家文化不管是語言或者是剛講的戲劇這些都可以不斷的來推廣主委還是期許主委這邊可以做更多的這些推廣即使我們目前的經費很遺憾就是只能沿用去年的計畫沒有新的計畫可以使用在只有去年的這些計畫可以使用的話我還是希望主委可以提出如果有機會我們客委會還希望可以做什麼"},{"start":384.46,"end":405.988,"text":"感謝委員 我們想要做的事很多好 有沒有新的計畫你可以在這邊講一下我們來跟所有全國的客家鄉親所有全國的人民來爭取旁觀前陣子有實驗 還有實驗提到的語言的部分那語言的部分就還有很多可以做"},{"start":406.468,"end":433.068,"text":"那這些都牽涉到預算比如說我比如說很多小孩子下課了之後送安親班學課語是我們目前已經在推動的那到家裡之前的安親班是不是我們也可以介入呢因為透過語言的傳遞讓這個非常好就是類似"},{"start":436.065,"end":449.26,"text":"長輩去博光照護站小朋友 上學的小朋友他下課有一個課餘的安心環境沒錯 沒錯 沒錯而這個都需要經費要有經費才能做到都需要經費我們共同來努力是謝謝感謝你"}]}},{"id":"168108","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168108","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c5d8891d599d33e30bad885c3c28ba2b24047e563c2ae1609ac6f5c410dd661785ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"10:40:33 - 10:54:12","影片長度":"00:13:39","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:40:33+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:54:12+08:00","duration":819,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0772187500000001,"end":3.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.33846875,"end":4.148468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.57346875,"end":13.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.020343750000002,"end":71.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.61471875000001,"end":98.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.49221875,"end":99.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.52596875,"end":117.56534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.56534375000001,"end":153.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.95346875,"end":146.57346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.82971875,"end":158.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.50409375,"end":158.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.53784375,"end":159.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.06096875,"end":159.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.51659375,"end":215.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.35159375,"end":240.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.78659375,"end":241.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.79909375000003,"end":268.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.83284375,"end":291.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.27221875000004,"end":297.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.19534375,"end":299.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.16971875,"end":334.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.44284375,"end":360.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.51596875,"end":352.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.86909375000005,"end":383.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.97096875,"end":384.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.08909375,"end":384.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.40971875,"end":384.42659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.42659375000005,"end":410.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.43096875000003,"end":420.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.99471875,"end":425.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.46659375,"end":441.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.12221875,"end":446.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.30284375,"end":452.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.90534375000004,"end":460.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.68471875,"end":472.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.42971875,"end":475.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.53034375000004,"end":476.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.90159375,"end":489.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.72659375,"end":503.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.39534375000005,"end":507.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.61471875,"end":503.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.78721875,"end":516.1865937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.8615937500001,"end":520.4053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.9622187500001,"end":522.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.1940937500001,"end":527.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.47596875,"end":529.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.3953437499999,"end":552.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.90659375,"end":553.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.78409375,"end":553.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.8347187500001,"end":560.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.70284375,"end":560.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.2934687500001,"end":561.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.34409375,"end":561.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.47909375,"end":561.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.6984687500001,"end":561.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.96846875,"end":567.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.9422187499999,"end":570.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.2665937500001,"end":573.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.2365937500001,"end":587.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.6184687500001,"end":589.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.77846875,"end":593.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.03096875,"end":609.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.64034375,"end":612.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.12096875,"end":613.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.01534375,"end":613.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.2009687500001,"end":613.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.23471875,"end":613.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.3022187500001,"end":613.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.3528437500001,"end":613.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.42034375,"end":613.5047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.5047187499999,"end":613.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.52159375,"end":613.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.53846875,"end":613.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.70721875,"end":613.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.79159375,"end":622.0434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.90034375,"end":620.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.84096875,"end":622.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.68471875,"end":622.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.71846875,"end":638.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.27721875,"end":640.7747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.0109687500001,"end":651.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.08659375,"end":643.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.9128437500001,"end":649.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.4734687499999,"end":666.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.30659375,"end":666.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.96471875,"end":672.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.50034375,"end":668.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.29721875,"end":742.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":742.8178437500001,"end":745.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.2478437500001,"end":745.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.83846875,"end":745.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.9734687499999,"end":748.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.38221875,"end":759.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":760.04721875,"end":779.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":779.9428437500001,"end":802.8759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":781.84971875,"end":783.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":783.11534375,"end":786.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.65659375,"end":805.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":806.5209687500001,"end":818.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":817.4053437500002,"end":818.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":818.68784375,"end":820.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":820.99971875,"end":821.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":821.94471875,"end":821.97846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.652,"end":2.837,"text":"謝謝主席主席我們有請林部長"},{"start":11.584,"end":39.271,"text":"委員好 部長你好部長對於前行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表顏慧欣 殷斌其實我們都感到非常的惋惜因為這樣的談判人才是非常的稀缺但從後續看到這些訊息是了解到他因為遭到長官的排擠然後職場霸凌導致他心生恥意本席其實向來都反對職場霸凌但我相信部長應該跟本席也一樣"},{"start":40.131,"end":61.101,"text":"那反對職場霸凌是會影響辦公室文化很重要的一件事情那我們過去媒體有報導說我國駐美代表這個於大雷他有被遭到發文指控說他涉嫌職場霸凌過去因為這個職場因為這個菜色問題辱罵這個督導主管把主管降到副主管"},{"start":61.781,"end":80.144,"text":"那對於媒體這些指控我們昨天行政院的主院長也說要請外交部來主動來瞭解那請問部長目前我們瞭解大概查到什麼狀況我們人事處有在進行瞭解那余大使本身也有傳訊跟我做了初步的說明"},{"start":80.985,"end":98.535,"text":"因為這次其實因為涉及到的一些網路或媒體的報導我們並沒有說正式收到這個申訴但不是因為沒有收到申訴我們就不去處理我們會主動去關心 去了解所以就是有在進行中"},{"start":99.708,"end":117.259,"text":"部長因為這個駐外大使代表的是我國的在駐外的這個門面那一切行為他都會被高規格來看待所以請部長能不能好好的來查一下如果確實沒有這件事也要讓他還他一個清白那會不會也請部長把這個初步調查結果提供給本席這個辦公室"},{"start":117.919,"end":143.374,"text":"我跟委員也說明一下我比較直接有掌握因為有一些我們外館人事的調整還是都有一規定至於說每一個館長或我們的大使或代表他用人當然有一個程序也不能個人的好惡所以這個部分外面有一些紫色的部分我有請人事單位在家了解因為有時候當然在每個人的領導風格還有方法上"},{"start":146.315,"end":162.73,"text":"一定是不能夠具有職場的霸凌那我們有相關的法令我們也希望說大家能夠透過這些管道來申訴如果具體的事證也可以提供給我們好 謝謝部長那我們回到今天的主題今天早上特別安排這個"},{"start":164.051,"end":187.61,"text":"我國三個太平洋三個友邦的這個專案報告就是關於這三個友邦目前都面臨氣候變遷然後導致海平面上升然後侵蝕大規模這個土地然後國家面臨消失的這些問題那我們既然是這個三個國家友邦我們當然就來協助我們友邦來解決困難那不過本席這邊也要強調就是說協助不是傻逼那個如果靠傻逼"},{"start":188.311,"end":201.681,"text":"才能夠拱惡外交 這個情誼不會長久以下本席有幾個問題想要來跟部長這邊來就教第一個就是從經濟部國貿署的資料我們可以發現我國對馬紹爾出口在2022年的時候是4億3857萬一路下滑到2024年達到最低只有1億3389萬美金馬紹爾出口會急速下降的原因是什麼"},{"start":216.711,"end":240.329,"text":"因為我想這麼短的時間它下降一定有原因農業部的報告也指出說馬紹爾的遠洋漁業有發展的潛力請問我國目前在馬紹爾的遠洋投資有什麼未來有哪些新的項目在進行這個對於我國未來在海洋產業發展上有什麼樣的幫助第一個 請部長回應"},{"start":242.771,"end":267.272,"text":"對 陳議員所講其實馬紹爾最主要還是以漁業的收入那這裡面當然有一些是漁船那過去我們有企業有跟他合作那也有幾艘漁船但有一些漁船是產權是登記在馬紹爾群島不過也隨著漁船的可能老舊或者是要換新而有新的他們的"},{"start":270.014,"end":293.628,"text":"這個合作的模式所以這個部分我們也是密切關注因為這是民間的一個投資我們是希望都能夠維持那再來一個就是有關於這個漁權就是捕魚的這個日的這個交易的問題那我們過去是這方面比較多不過隨著那個漁的這個說氣候變遷它那個漁場的改變也影響到"},{"start":298.377,"end":316.079,"text":"這些國家的收入那最後我想最重要的是說能不能在這裡發展漁業加工它的碼頭還有相關的這些不管是產業或是服務業這個也是我們這一次如果我們有安排這個投資考察團"},{"start":317.08,"end":334.168,"text":"希望能夠著重這也是美國希望說幫助馬薩爾群島以舉例來講我們必須要讓他找到他可以有穩定或是這些財政收入的產業也創造人民工作機會這樣我們的邦交也才比較能夠鞏固"},{"start":334.897,"end":354.028,"text":"長久了 當然就是因為是共榮嘛它好我們也要好嘛所以這個也要對我們國內的產業特別是在漁業這一塊台灣是一個四面黃海的海洋國家我們要為海外發展那些這個是未來對於我們的這些產業是有實質幫助這是更重要的這個是人民會支持我們外交啦"},{"start":354.688,"end":383.851,"text":"那另外就是說在查了這個三個國家的這個貿易檔案裡面發現三個國家跟這三個邦交國家裡面他從中國進口的物品的比例非常高尤其是馬紹爾跟這個帛琉主要他都是佔他們國內進口的第一個那未來有沒有可能中國會利用這樣的方式經貿協約要求要斷交 甘不可領那對於這一些我們有什麼因應的方式那有沒有還有沒有什麼樣的措施能夠提高他對我們的進口 甘不"},{"start":385.451,"end":409.798,"text":"委員只講到一個很重點因為這些我們的邦交國當然他中國比較沒有辦法大張旗鼓的去承攬工程雖然有時候透過國際的這些銀行這個算是援助的項目那也是開放這個招標這個對我們是一個我們多密切注意但是另外一個就是所謂的這一些進口品"},{"start":410.618,"end":434.398,"text":"它形成了一個商店甚至他們的人就在這邊買賣這個其實就會進入它社會的末梢這裡面會不會有其他的一些任務比如說我們在帛琉的時候我想在2024帛琉總統選舉的時候其實後來公布了很多的調查其實這個確實是我們應該要去妥善因應所以馬紹爾群島來講比如說它這個碼頭然後有漁船進來就會有漁工"},{"start":440.003,"end":452.001,"text":"他生活上各方面的需求我們希望說我們未來在物流上面我們為什麼要去推動榮邦經澳辦事處來促成民間對他們的比如說進口"},{"start":453.17,"end":475.703,"text":"台灣有非常好的貨品可以進口這裡,因為我們有這個ECA等等那再來就是要培訓他們的人才,也就是他們要有辦法跟這一些通路啊能夠來做生意那如果他在台灣學習的時候,我們就能夠引導他進入到相關的這一些產業那他一技之長之後回去,就可以代理啊"},{"start":477.034,"end":502.807,"text":"即使是一個超商他也要進貨這個時候的物流呢那如果台灣這次我們希望透過民間的投資以外也促進他的這個所謂的貿易的進出口這個可能會某種程度會解決到他剛剛委員提到的就是他的貨都來自於中國然後在這邊買賣的人都是中國在那邊長期的滲透影響或利益輸送就是"},{"start":503.507,"end":529.369,"text":"有時候一下子看不到 但是它長期就會你這個末梢就會出問題都是要再提醒要注意的事情因為其實經濟部裡面的報告提出是三個 太平洋是三個邦交國它的特色就是人口少然後它的產業其實相對都不發達那特別像我剛才看了資料這三個國家加起來人口數還沒有我們台東市多我們台東市還有80萬 這三個國家還有不到10萬"},{"start":530.51,"end":559.469,"text":"那在這個特別我們要提到還在報告裡面提到說這個土瓦魯的這個他更提到說他的工商交通貿易都極度不發達市場規模也小短期內亦難大幅改善不利的條件必須仰賴我國的政權才得以生存那我想要請問外交部跟經濟部說你針對土瓦魯的這個產業困境我們要怎麼協助他產業升級然後另外除了援助以後我們有沒有什麼我們榮邦計畫的實行有沒有什麼具體的措施"},{"start":560.41,"end":588.758,"text":"成果 報告委員除了基礎設施包括像電信或者是說這些道路以外他的民生需求就是需要進出口貿易這個大概我們有在協助未來包括他獎學金的人才然後包括他能夠產學合作然後到我們的企業比如說我們的這些很大的這些超商然後也可以建立他這邊的人脈那另外一個很重要是漁業"},{"start":589.998,"end":609.219,"text":"就是怎麼樣讓他捕魚之後也可以增加收入除了漁權的交易以外那個漁船因為他們也是有分到一定的配額我們台灣就像我想在台東 屏東這些其實我們有相當多的漁業其實可以用他們的Quota"},{"start":609.999,"end":636.773,"text":"這樣也可以讓我們台灣的漁業有更大的發展當作是一個另外一個遠洋的基地這樣對 那如果食品加工可以做像在馬紹爾群島可能有這個簡歷北極的話我們也有台商在那邊投資不像我們這幾年一直在推動的務實外交我覺得務實外交就是要讓彼此之間的連結性更高要互助互利就是你好我也要好這個感情只要長久只有靠感情為何只有靠金錢為何感情會不會孤單"},{"start":638.614,"end":665.788,"text":"對 我覺得這個才是正確的 保證你有沒有認同對啊 感情或價值這些都是很重要啦但是麵包啊 要讓他能夠有一個經濟的發展就業機會也是非常重要部長 用點時間 最後提到就是說我們提到這個三個國家這三個 太平洋三個邦交國 它都是屬於南島語系部長 你知道南島文化 它是屬於南島語系嘛南島文化的發源地在哪邊 你知道嗎"},{"start":666.648,"end":690.694,"text":"現在學界大概已經幾乎是來自於台灣特別是台東那這個部分也要跟部長講說過去我們為了要推動南島文化的交流我們在1999年的時候台東縣政府就舉辦了南島文化節邀請世界各地的南島文化的國家來到台灣來展演那後來因素就停辦不過這幾年我們還是有辦一些相關的活動"},{"start":691.494,"end":720.701,"text":"那像這幾年像那個園民會也辦一個叫Pasivali的這個國際音樂祭那也吸引很多的國外的音樂人才來這邊來展演那也吸引很多台灣的觀光客甚至國外的觀光客來台東那這些東西我想台東縣政府其實除了做這些以外還有辦很多的這些公益的展演的活動像我們一個叫原住民文化產業創業聚落我們透過文化透過公益的活動讓更多人來認識南島文化認識台東那不想"},{"start":721.181,"end":743.935,"text":"你都說要用文化來走向世界文化就是最好的媒介嘛那我想台東也用文化來證明我們台東是屬於南島文化中心的這個決心那未來是不是也建議我們外交部也好或可以結合園民會來讓預祝更多這樣子在國際曝光的機會讓更多人認識南島文化認識台灣也認識台東"},{"start":746.056,"end":766.017,"text":"我還前同意委員的這個主張我們的總和外交原住民外交跟文化外交事實上在太平洋的島國包括像加拿大跟澳洲他們其實有對於原住民的經濟社會權利就是像我們跟澳洲紐西蘭也有三邊的會議其實在這方面就是可以透過原住民文化"},{"start":766.678,"end":779.154,"text":"其實跟經濟社會發展把它連結它不只可以促進觀光可能在產業上所以這個確實是太平洋我們有時候看起來好像就幾個島國然後沒有多少人可是這些島國的海域啊"},{"start":780.477,"end":805.468,"text":"他的藍色國土是很大的 這個就是我們原住民當時可能獨步舟然後就沿著這個洋流這樣的一個學術上的研究基本上也已經都證實了所以這是台灣很特別做的南島文化之源我們一定要來怎麼樣去促進原住民尤其是文化上面的交流合作我相信台中縣政府非常樂意的跟外交部跟"},{"start":806.608,"end":817.929,"text":"相關的單位來合作那未來我們一起來努力這邊也請不會就今天本席提到的一些問題那跟本席辦公室這邊來做報告好我們再補充資料提供給委員謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"168121","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168121","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c38e68aed46b3295d7570c8d4d2e9dc784047e563c2ae16098a3d5adc657703f85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"10:40:12 - 10:56:07","影片長度":"00:15:55","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:40:12+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:56:07+08:00","duration":955,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.54096875,"end":4.418468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.48159375,"end":6.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.764093750000001,"end":7.523468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.64159375,"end":12.130343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.484718750000003,"end":12.822218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.024718750000002,"end":13.716593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.750343750000003,"end":14.543468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.72909375,"end":16.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.99034375,"end":17.024093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.05784375,"end":18.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.15034375,"end":19.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.53846875,"end":20.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.75346875,"end":21.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.83346875,"end":22.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.21721875,"end":23.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.79909375,"end":27.469718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.094093750000003,"end":28.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.01346875,"end":64.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.74221875,"end":81.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.36846875,"end":98.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.10409375,"end":101.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.80409375,"end":114.17346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.96659375,"end":117.61596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.34159375,"end":131.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.67284375,"end":148.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.90221875,"end":156.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.63096875000002,"end":158.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.41534375,"end":163.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.78596875000002,"end":164.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.71409375000002,"end":165.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.04721875,"end":168.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.94971875000002,"end":170.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.07596875000002,"end":171.39659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.42596875,"end":173.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.97846875000002,"end":175.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.37471875,"end":177.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.60221875000002,"end":180.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.42471875,"end":187.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.74846875,"end":191.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.64221875,"end":199.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.39221875,"end":201.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.80534375000002,"end":227.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.97846875000002,"end":237.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.01909375000002,"end":243.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.30096875,"end":243.48659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.48659375000003,"end":251.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.29534375000003,"end":252.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.30784375000002,"end":270.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.95909375,"end":280.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.64534375,"end":281.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.09659375,"end":283.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.42534375,"end":289.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.84221875000003,"end":290.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.96846875,"end":293.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.09909375,"end":296.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.19971875000005,"end":298.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.27096875,"end":302.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.59971875,"end":304.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.83971875000003,"end":339.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.03284375000004,"end":347.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.80346875000004,"end":349.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.78221875,"end":356.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.51534375,"end":361.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.39221875000004,"end":366.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.65721875,"end":405.06471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.27284375000005,"end":369.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.52034375000005,"end":442.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.98659375000005,"end":419.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.03784375000004,"end":451.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.91846875000005,"end":459.03096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.70284375000006,"end":453.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.03096875000006,"end":465.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.73971875,"end":460.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":461.64659375,"end":462.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.59534375000004,"end":469.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.59034375000005,"end":473.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.81346875,"end":488.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.91659375,"end":489.89534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.23284375000003,"end":491.65034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.97096875000005,"end":492.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.18596875000003,"end":504.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.71159375,"end":519.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.8147187500001,"end":521.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.9197187500001,"end":526.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.2565937500001,"end":528.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.60659375,"end":528.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.61909375,"end":536.3015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":537.90471875,"end":545.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.4309687500001,"end":545.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.93721875,"end":554.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.49284375,"end":555.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.69909375,"end":568.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.97159375,"end":569.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.24159375,"end":569.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.25846875,"end":569.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.91221875,"end":578.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.07971875,"end":579.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.1597187500001,"end":582.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.5390937500001,"end":583.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.3828437500001,"end":584.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.7665937500001,"end":586.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.0278437500001,"end":587.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.4197187500001,"end":590.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.2803437499999,"end":591.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.54159375,"end":594.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.3472187500001,"end":595.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.0390937500001,"end":602.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.16471875,"end":604.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.54409375,"end":611.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.99846875,"end":617.0990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.5547187500001,"end":617.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.3647187500001,"end":619.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.42346875,"end":621.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.3640937499999,"end":623.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.12346875,"end":640.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.69034375,"end":643.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.7109687500001,"end":652.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.92034375,"end":657.3797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.9365937500002,"end":659.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":659.8940937500001,"end":664.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.1472187500001,"end":660.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.4965937500001,"end":666.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.09971875,"end":669.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.6140937499999,"end":671.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.02721875,"end":676.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.68471875,"end":677.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.5959687500001,"end":678.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.8615937500001,"end":679.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.05534375,"end":681.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.3884687500001,"end":683.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.10971875,"end":684.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.0209687500001,"end":685.8984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.1684687500001,"end":687.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.03284375,"end":690.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.30284375,"end":699.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":700.14096875,"end":702.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.0603437500001,"end":706.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.94159375,"end":711.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.97034375,"end":712.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.7634687500001,"end":737.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":738.3628437500001,"end":753.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":753.49971875,"end":755.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.03534375,"end":767.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.94471875,"end":769.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":769.8178437500001,"end":771.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.0834687500001,"end":772.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":774.39096875,"end":776.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":776.7365937500001,"end":778.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":779.4197187500001,"end":780.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":781.2422187500001,"end":782.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":783.6215937500001,"end":784.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.3472187500001,"end":785.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":785.8997187500001,"end":786.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":786.52409375,"end":788.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":788.88659375,"end":789.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":790.2197187500001,"end":790.7934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":793.37534375,"end":795.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":796.10909375,"end":797.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":798.1172187500001,"end":798.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":799.43346875,"end":800.3953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":800.9353437500001,"end":802.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.25159375,"end":802.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.0615937500002,"end":803.7365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":805.76159375,"end":825.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":825.85971875,"end":829.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":830.1797187500001,"end":831.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.96846875,"end":836.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":837.0815937500001,"end":837.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":837.7397187500001,"end":839.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":840.0178437500001,"end":841.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":843.74721875,"end":863.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":856.6228437500001,"end":856.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":861.43221875,"end":875.0165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.50596875,"end":878.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":878.2903437500001,"end":878.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.5265937500001,"end":883.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":878.5434687500001,"end":878.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":883.25159375,"end":901.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":883.3528437500001,"end":883.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":901.7803437500002,"end":911.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":912.51284375,"end":914.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":914.87534375,"end":915.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":915.3984687500001,"end":922.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":923.1440937500001,"end":935.2603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":935.88471875,"end":937.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":938.1797187500001,"end":938.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":939.6984687500001,"end":941.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":941.5209687500001,"end":941.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":941.9428437500001,"end":943.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":944.0690937500001,"end":953.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":951.15659375,"end":951.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":951.4097187500001,"end":951.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":953.2490937500002,"end":954.83534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.527,"end":22.324,"text":"好 謝謝主席那個 理事你不用上來你待會事情一個禮拜再不處理我就請這個主席來排專報再不行我就直接拜託主席直接到你們那個衛務部去考察好 謝謝來 接下來請部長好 有請黃部長均如細言 小心一點"},{"start":31.058,"end":59.958,"text":"部長我們農政部推的在你主政之下育嬰假的這個新制嘛那女性的申請率從原本的72.2降為到55.6看圖表齁那這個少了16.6的這樣的一個成績啦雖然是一個突破但還是有56.6的女性齁能有請育嬰假的這樣的需求顯示照顧的兒童的責任還是以女性為主嘛齁這個不為過嘛對不對"},{"start":60.96,"end":62.244,"text":"然後主計處主計總署跟衛護部的統計"},{"start":65.805,"end":79.209,"text":"近年婦女層因為結婚而離子的主因以被孕或懷孕為最大中將近快40%左右2023年這個媒體又做出相關的報導台灣女性就有33萬人因為要照顧家庭而退出勞動市場他怎麼統計啦 怎麼基礎然後年齡到幾歲這個就要你們這邊來做相關的這樣的一個調查評估"},{"start":91.713,"end":117.476,"text":"不過33萬在對照那一次在這邊提出質詢的時候一年流失了13萬3左右顯然這個數據越看是越恐怖但是基本基礎這個有時間再做討論所以不論是育嬰假還是今天召委安排的這個專報我想都是要解決照顧離子的問題讓女性可以安心續留讓台灣的女性勞工可以安心續留"},{"start":118.427,"end":147.927,"text":"我們是不是要對比你對外勞的安心續留的相關的因應這個措施跟這樣的一個政策是不是要有所做一些處理了不管是身為孕女的方式有十種類別的這樣的一個勞動的一個情況他可能就有十種的選擇一定會有孕婦或母親選擇離開職場在一段的時間內全身心的來專心帶孕或陪伴孩子的成長"},{"start":148.968,"end":166.785,"text":"但也或許就是這一段時間的陪伴,當小孩進入小學或中學時,女性就應該能夠重回職場。但部長可以看這張圖表,這是從台灣、日本、南韓、新加坡、美國、瑞典。這個圖表,部長可以看,台灣的這個曲線圖,長得就特別不一樣。"},{"start":172.435,"end":191.58,"text":"它到了77點應該是這麼講在高點是89.9然後就每況愈下然後到最後是26這個地方這個曲線跟你在對照南韓南韓還有一年它是往上升的"},{"start":192.791,"end":207.897,"text":"往上升的那其他各國它是維持穩定的一段時間可能平均都還要在應該是81到86左右它可能到近幾年它才是最來勢的這樣下跌這個曲線圖給部長做一個這樣一個參考"},{"start":213.179,"end":236.991,"text":"我提供這個表是說從30歲就直直往下掉底下還有歲數的一個標誌然後對比其他國家30歲雖然各國也都有明顯往下降的趨勢但40歲左右都好像還會再回升一下會再回升然後以南冷為例剛剛特別提到就曲線最明顯連鄰近的日本也是這個樣子"},{"start":238.112,"end":251.6,"text":"所以政府希望女性不用照顧兒離子但這群離子的女性願意重回職長時那應該是整個國家社會求之不得的一個勞動力嘛對不對那怎麼台灣反而是回不去了"},{"start":253.399,"end":256.021,"text":"所以勞動部在規劃婦女再就業計畫從112年到911號到今年的8月31號為止鼓勵婦女自主訓練精進原有職能訓練完成並辦理求職登記就發給2萬的獎金如果訓練完成180內經推介"},{"start":273.693,"end":298.627,"text":"推介就業或自行就業者再發給一萬元也就是成功的訓練完成並在180天內完成就業的再就業的婦女就可以拿到三萬元這是一個好的政策啦這是一個好的政策那是怎麼還會這個最危險的下降然後剛剛對這個圖表台灣女性30歲之後就難以再回到職場所以我覺得這三萬塊是不是不夠"},{"start":300.285,"end":303.694,"text":"因為今年8月31號就要結束了,勞動部會再升級護理債就業2.0嗎?"},{"start":305.885,"end":334.602,"text":"根本說明其實我們近期其實是如火如荼在討論跟研議針對這個婦女在就業計劃要有一個升級版那在講的原因也是剛才就像委員剛才說的我們的確看到臺灣的這個二度就業婦女重回職場的比率相比於其他的國家其實還是比較偏低的所以看起來我們的確可能在一些條件上面會需要更加的放寬或者力道也要加大這是我們"},{"start":335.422,"end":341.891,"text":"接下來 我想應該近期就會來跟外界報告自主訓練獎勵啦 從原有的3萬你們是2加1啦 2萬加1萬嘛 對不對有沒有機會變成4加2"},{"start":348.82,"end":375.492,"text":"就變成到6萬跟我們說明確實我們在考慮剛剛原本是2加1嘛那接下來我們也在思考是不是加碼到就是委員講的這個數字就4加2嘛對好不好我們就朝這個方向努力了我們來努力我們願意我願意朝這個數字來努力這個應該一個月內可以來做決定吧我希望更快好我們不只是鼓勵這個我們所有的婦女的就業2.0就他們的這樣的"},{"start":378.095,"end":404.048,"text":"可以回到職場再持續的來貢獻這樣的一個勞動力除此之外鼓勵勞工我們也要鼓勵企業嘛那你們企業是這樣除了獎勵護女在就業外針對這些聘用在就業的企業勞動部也給予一個月值缺是3000塊每月3000塊的獎勵啦最長是12個月嘛對不對那也讓這些鼓勵配合我們政策的這些企業勞動部是不是也一併要加碼"},{"start":405.909,"end":421.181,"text":"跟委員說的確因為除了錢以外我們也在檢討他的一些機制那這個機制裡面我們也看到其實很多二度就業的父母他從回智障他有他在工時上面的期待跟需求比方說他會比較希望他的工時不一定是那麼長"},{"start":422.342,"end":442.821,"text":"或者是有一些公食因人而异的调整的空间所以我们的确也在研议如果企业愿意来协助二路最后的妇女在做公食的调整或相关的支持措施的话我们也会加码这个奖励金这部分也是我们在规划研议的其中一个重要的部分"},{"start":443.221,"end":469.075,"text":"就是等於婦女再就業的2.0版針對女性勞工也針對願意配合的這些企業嘛是 我剛才講的這部分就給企業企業願意給予勞工彈性跟工時的一些調整的機制我們就願意支持企業好 那我們就4月底前啦 4月底是 可以就已經答應了啦是 沒問題不要是因為今天是4月1號好 謝謝來 再來我們再看 請部長看勞工職場尊嚴"},{"start":471.213,"end":487.708,"text":"2024的一個屏東地院的判決等一下再看到2025的一個宜蘭的判決這罵新巴克的員工智障然後你奧克在用檳榔鐵去破臉然後標罵 做標罵兩分鐘的王茶蛋還有怒罵店員"},{"start":488.991,"end":503.859,"text":"XX娘哀告後或判無罪法官說妨害名譽非彰化罪台灣什麼時候有彰化罪我不太懂就是罵彰化不等同於應該是講說罵彰化不等同於妨害不等同於妨害名譽的罪責"},{"start":505.64,"end":527.692,"text":"這個是下面我就不再贅述了他說這個人雖然罵了勞工之後口出惡言但反而名譽徽章化所以如果因此判有罪法院會變成怎麼道德就查隊也就是過度干涉個人干涉被告個人羞辱介入干涉被告個人羞辱或言行品味的私的領域這已遠於這個"},{"start":530.076,"end":553.757,"text":"這該罪的正當的保護目的我實在不太清楚這是什麼樣的一個說辭啦那部長有什麼看法如果按照這個敘述的話其實這當然已經是可能是有這個不法侵害職場不法侵害的狀況了有不法侵害的狀況嘛對不對那應該像這樣的一個消費者像這樣的一個顧客應該受到什麼樣的懲處什麼樣的處罰"},{"start":557.905,"end":569.532,"text":"根委員報告 在職安法裡面目前是要求僱主要對勞工可能遭受不法侵害採取預防的措施採取預防的措施 現在發生了"},{"start":571.03,"end":587.526,"text":"然後我們的勞工去告了罵他的對象那法院又就這樣處理不是只有這一案,還有依然一案依然入罵超商店員,就王插蛋什麼東西法官以認定為是公然侮辱這兩個20分鐘"},{"start":593.578,"end":605.864,"text":"店內當時沒有其他人,縱使言語過於粗鄙,令人心生不快,但冒犯及影響程度尚屬輕微,最多算是修養欠佳,因不足以貶損女店員的社會名譽或名譽人格。"},{"start":613.252,"end":639.805,"text":"那你們現在處理方式 照我們的食安法的處理方式還是針對雇主嘛 對不對最近這一案怎麼處理 統一那個職場怎麼處理各位說明因為相關的法源因為食安法的整部法的這個施行的邏輯裡面最重要的其實就是可以雇主的責任那當然如果對於顧客的部分當然這部分可能就會進入到司法司法的處理跟判決 對"},{"start":640.945,"end":652.214,"text":"我今天就是要跟部長討論這個事情嘛如果針對勞工受到顧客不當的傷害的情況之下那我們的職安法裡面只有針對"},{"start":653.996,"end":679.264,"text":"向這個僱主來做是不是有教育訓練是不是有防暴力的指引防範的責任他都有做了假設他都有做了然後這個勞工又被傷害了然後又到法院去訴訟這樣的一個法律訴訟的情況之下又被法官做這樣的一個判決無罪的判決"},{"start":681.107,"end":687.516,"text":"那你覺得我們這個職安法是不是有輸入之處還是有修正的空間"},{"start":690.326,"end":708.455,"text":"我引用這兩個例子跟引用統一的這個例子你們最終還是去做正常處理當然你必須要做正常處理是不是有教育訓練是不是有環抱相關的指引如果沒有就是告發了嘛對不對那勞工被傷害了勞工被傷害的回復正義誰來幫助他們來主張誰來幫他們回復"},{"start":712.817,"end":734.119,"text":"跟各位說明因為職安法整部法他設計的原意就是在處理職場裡面因為職場的指揮或權力關係所造成的傷害所以整個職安法他其實比較絕大部分的對象就是科與雇主相關的責任這是職安法的邏輯對可是現在因為現在遇到的是員工跟"},{"start":735.019,"end":752.548,"text":"顧客員工跟消費者之間第三者的關係他其實就這個消費者跟員工之間他可能就不是一個雇主跟員工之間的這樣子從屬或指揮的關係下的確會有些部分不容易用責任法去規範到所以就必須回到我們其他的也許刑事法規上面去處理"},{"start":753.641,"end":772.435,"text":"但是現在就是我跟部長提起的這兩個案件基本上那個受傷受暴力對待受言語暴力對待的勞工通通沒有辦法在法院得到正義上的彰顯嘛所以我才會回到未完委員會來垂詢部長我們該不該面對這個問題該不該來幫助這些在職場上受到傷害的勞工"},{"start":783.863,"end":802.233,"text":"這一塊已經碰壁了對不對那這一塊你們處理就是針對僱主那受傷勞工他要找誰能不能大家冷靜來思考這件事情這個事情層出不窮啊訴出懷怨又無解啊又做出這樣的解釋啊那怎麼處理"},{"start":806.319,"end":829.494,"text":"跟委員報告現在在我們這一次的治安法的修法也有提到這個要調查跟處理他雖然是外部的一個人員那我們認為說在後續事情發生後僱主應該還是要提供有關於剛剛法律的一個協助還有心理諮商的一些諮詢協助這個是在我們法上可以要求僱主來做的"},{"start":830.915,"end":840.872,"text":"懷慮的協助,我不曉得這兩個案例,這個雇主有沒有協助啦即便有協助,判決就這樣,對不對即便有協助,判決就這樣,那雇主有協助啊"},{"start":843.769,"end":860.844,"text":"那個委員我覺得我們可能的確會需要比方說也許需要跟法務部來討論一些相關是不是有在怎麼樣來協助像這樣子案例的更進一步的可能我懂委員的意思啦就是說既有的法規確實是有些受限在這樣的案例裡面有些受限"},{"start":861.465,"end":866.106,"text":"我們針對醫護人員在急診的暴力我們也經過好幾年的討論然後節節的提高相關的這樣的一個法則然後對應的方法那勞工的職場何嘗不是他在職業中遇到的暴力的傷害不管言語不管是行為對不對"},{"start":882.43,"end":900.848,"text":"那我們怎麼沒有去思考所以委員我想針對不法侵害的概念尤其是如果這樣幾個判例或者是案例出來我們可以綜合思考說是不是有些地方可以再更多強化有更多的保護不過的確這個可能要找法務部這邊大家來做一些討論這樣子"},{"start":901.929,"end":917.963,"text":"對啦 我們不應該說醫事人員在執行這個業務的時候遇到的相關的一些暴力我們就有相關的規範 法則去作為處理護理也是勞工的對象啊他們在衛務部這邊就有這樣的一個處置啊"},{"start":918.644,"end":937.075,"text":"那整體各類別的勞工遇到這樣在執業的過程受到這樣的不滿青睞言語行為相關的暴力然後訴諸法律求助無母的情況之下那我們只是針對雇主去說你有沒有做教育訓練你有沒有做相關的一些執業如果沒有我就跟你告發那對那個勞工情何以堪"},{"start":939.727,"end":953.999,"text":"我想我們來正視這個問題好不好 也請部長一個月內可以吧 來研擬相關的營運措施保護勞工在職業過程中不應該再受到這樣的一個傷害啦好 謝謝 好 謝謝主席 謝謝好 謝謝劉建國委員的發言"}]}},{"id":"168120","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168120","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cc26ec0f43a5d9f0e331a35e1dda586ae4047e563c2ae16098a3d5adc657703f85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"10:52:49 - 10:56:17","影片長度":"00:03:28","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「能源轉型政策下我國產業發展布局，及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就「AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及扶助政策規劃與執行情形」進行報告，並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:52:49+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:56:17+08:00","duration":208,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.7565937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0434687500000002,"end":2.3934687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.8615937500000004,"end":6.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.08471875,"end":8.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.278468750000002,"end":11.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.548468750000001,"end":10.054718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.610968750000001,"end":18.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.745968750000003,"end":15.134093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.88034375,"end":25.512218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.59659375,"end":31.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.009093750000005,"end":32.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.81909375,"end":50.065343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.259093750000005,"end":53.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.67659375,"end":70.53471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.89784375,"end":79.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.52471875,"end":82.53284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.92096875,"end":114.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.18159375,"end":90.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.17346875000001,"end":124.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.93971875000001,"end":138.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.96284375000002,"end":145.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.03784375,"end":153.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.37909375,"end":148.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.74534375000002,"end":157.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.39034375,"end":162.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.33471875,"end":165.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.28784375,"end":165.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.81096875,"end":165.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.96284375000002,"end":173.47221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.47221875000002,"end":177.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.21471875,"end":175.64909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.26909375000002,"end":178.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.23096875000002,"end":178.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.48409375,"end":180.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.81284375,"end":182.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.54659375,"end":184.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.71534375000002,"end":183.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.96409375000002,"end":185.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.20034375,"end":187.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.82034375,"end":190.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.34721875000002,"end":193.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.54909375000003,"end":198.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.19846875000002,"end":198.75096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.95346875,"end":198.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.97034375,"end":204.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.34159375000002,"end":200.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.16346875000002,"end":209.97284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.549,"end":10.074,"text":"好 請掉進來文言資訊好 謝謝主席 我慢慢請我們這個何政次經濟部陳副市長 還有王總經理那個台電 王總"},{"start":14.616,"end":30.744,"text":"好 委員好 老師好 這個能源大漲那這幾天有一個新聞就是我們的中油針對這個天然氣的一個售價有調漲尤其是針對電力用戶的價格有調漲想確認一下也包含台電公司嗎"},{"start":32.242,"end":49.856,"text":"有有有包含嘛對不對那我想確認一下那我們台電公司有沒有算過啊就是說台電已經公布調漲的比例了嘛對不對那未來對我們台電的成本的影響是多少那有沒有可能會產生民眾要感謝台電公司的一個機會可以麻煩說明一下"},{"start":52.624,"end":77.51,"text":"報告委員那這次的調漲是從12.6067每一立方公尺調升到17.8485立方公尺所以我們這樣算一算大概一年會增加900多億一年增加如果要按照這樣的價格會增加900多億的這個成本是是是那你們現在有再評估過這個電價的調整了嗎"},{"start":81.439,"end":96.769,"text":"應該這樣說啦就是說這個戰爭的期間會多久還有條幅多少都是這兩個變數嘛所以我們分為短期嘛短期跟長期嘛對不對如果是短期的話如果是短期的話那就是一年100億一個月100億啦一個月100億那短期再一個月100億"},{"start":99.011,"end":124.432,"text":"那台電因為去年還有729億稅後盈餘的這個部分所以在因應上還有一點疑慮的空間那自己說如果是真的長期那就還要再另外再思考所以我們等於是邊走邊看所以短期內我們就是台電這邊釋放的訊息就是雖然說我們天然氣的成本有提升大概一個月增加100億的一個成本但是因為我們台電去年有盈餘"},{"start":125.112,"end":147.96,"text":"所以說今年到目前為止因為戰爭延續多久還不知道短期內我們台電會先吸收成本還暫時先不會反映到我們終端的電價無論是民生或者是工業是這樣子嗎這部分是根據三月底的電價審議委員會的決議是這個樣子的三月底是這樣那下一次開會大概是哪時候九月底"},{"start":148.4,"end":164.999,"text":"所以說我們目前我們大概所有的這個用電戶可以大概放心大概在九月台電的電價審議委會之前無論天然氣的價格如何的變化我們民生或者是工業的電價原則上不會有調整機會還是有開庭實惠的可能嗎"},{"start":166.562,"end":191.583,"text":"上3月底開的那個電價審議委員會並沒有提到中間要開臨時委員會確定嗎?9月之前不會開臨時委員會目前的決議是這樣子那如果說會開的話會有怎樣的情況可能會觸發我要幫大家擔心一下這個部分事事多變經濟部交代還是說有上層交代我們就會再開還是說決議了3月決議不會開就是9月再開"},{"start":194.708,"end":203.903,"text":"因為要看這個戰事拖延多久所以還是有可能開啦 只是說我們現在台電目前是沒有啦目前是沒有 目前狀況是不會再開好 那以上了解 謝謝謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168119","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168119","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c0cce2f78745323a08b964e64394a70074047e563c2ae1609ff736705a4ade47f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"10:44:57 - 10:55:49","影片長度":"00:10:52","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況（含上會期臨時提案辦理情形），並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:44:57+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:55:49+08:00","duration":652,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-5-15-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":2.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.21971875,"end":10.172843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.488468750000003,"end":16.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.024093750000002,"end":17.445968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.74971875,"end":18.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.15034375,"end":21.344093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.73221875,"end":22.137218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.76159375,"end":28.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.87034375,"end":31.789718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.36346875,"end":33.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.79784375,"end":37.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.27409375,"end":40.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.96596875,"end":40.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.885343750000004,"end":51.735968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.02284375,"end":53.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.47409375,"end":60.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.51971875,"end":58.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.70096875,"end":64.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.92846875,"end":61.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.17721875,"end":63.565343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.67909375,"end":64.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.79721875,"end":64.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.91534375,"end":67.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.18096875,"end":67.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.58159375000001,"end":67.59846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.59846875000001,"end":69.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.40846875,"end":69.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.97784375,"end":71.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.72846875,"end":72.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.74534375,"end":73.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.60596875,"end":73.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.96034375,"end":74.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.99409375,"end":78.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.04471875,"end":74.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.09534375,"end":74.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.48346875,"end":74.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.83784375,"end":74.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.97284375000001,"end":75.58034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.74034375000001,"end":82.53284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.52034375000001,"end":83.84909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.42721875000001,"end":84.27096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.06846875000001,"end":87.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.57846875,"end":89.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.70471875000001,"end":89.72159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.72159375000001,"end":94.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.70034375,"end":91.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.86409375000001,"end":99.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.01971875000001,"end":99.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.32346875,"end":99.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.62721875000001,"end":113.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.46034375,"end":117.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.78471875000001,"end":118.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.79721875000001,"end":124.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.95659375000001,"end":126.23909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.67784375000001,"end":136.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.00534375,"end":138.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.82784375,"end":140.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.08909375000002,"end":146.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.87721875,"end":171.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.01909375,"end":157.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.51971875,"end":166.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.97034375,"end":172.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.42596875,"end":172.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.49346875,"end":173.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.04596875000001,"end":179.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.83409375000002,"end":180.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.67346875,"end":187.95096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.15346875,"end":190.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.53284375,"end":193.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.14409375000002,"end":195.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.69659375,"end":197.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.97471875000002,"end":208.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.62284375000002,"end":215.23784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.62596875000003,"end":218.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.08971875,"end":218.19096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.19096875000002,"end":223.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.50659375,"end":225.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.39659375000002,"end":225.78471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.30784375000002,"end":229.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.66596875000002,"end":232.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.81784375,"end":230.39159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.02846875,"end":232.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.90596875000003,"end":240.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.30971875,"end":257.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.93159375,"end":268.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.57971875000004,"end":274.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.72221875,"end":277.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.03409375,"end":289.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.55534375,"end":303.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.49409375000005,"end":304.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.87784375,"end":309.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.73784375,"end":310.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.83471875000004,"end":316.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.43284375,"end":331.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.62471875,"end":333.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.91971875,"end":335.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.94471875000005,"end":339.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.18034375,"end":343.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.01971875000004,"end":345.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.60971875,"end":349.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.79909375,"end":354.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.74346875000003,"end":355.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.53221875,"end":363.33284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.70096875,"end":357.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.85596875000005,"end":381.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.47784375000003,"end":385.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.30034375,"end":382.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.84846875000005,"end":385.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.70909375,"end":392.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.69534375,"end":396.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.96471875000003,"end":402.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.39471875000004,"end":399.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.94721875000005,"end":404.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.04784375,"end":411.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.48971875,"end":429.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.71909375,"end":431.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.87471875000006,"end":440.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.61221875,"end":446.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.48034375000003,"end":447.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.60659375,"end":451.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.15034375000005,"end":460.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.34721875,"end":460.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.38096875,"end":462.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":461.47784375000003,"end":476.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.46909375,"end":464.16096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.15159375,"end":470.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.48409375000006,"end":491.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.54221875,"end":482.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.96346875,"end":487.26284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.73471875,"end":493.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.96221875000003,"end":496.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.90284375000005,"end":496.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.52721875000003,"end":496.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.83096875,"end":497.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.82659375000003,"end":499.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.94471875000005,"end":498.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.69971875000005,"end":538.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.01846875,"end":542.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.56221875,"end":544.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.07659375,"end":563.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.1453437499999,"end":578.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.65784375,"end":581.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.4253437500001,"end":584.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.04534375,"end":583.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":584.9184687500001,"end":593.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.69346875,"end":594.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.9253437500001,"end":596.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.81534375,"end":600.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.3759687500001,"end":603.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.02534375,"end":610.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.83846875,"end":652.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.4584687500001,"end":639.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.94784375,"end":639.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.96471875,"end":640.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.5959687500001,"end":651.8953437499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.397,"end":16.364,"text":"主席 本席有請谷主委主委好修憲 請問"},{"start":24.454,"end":32.959,"text":"王委員有講話,我講話,妳要推動台價講話會,妳感覺妳要推動成效擁辦?我會動家有,還要很加油。"},{"start":45.935,"end":71.173,"text":"推動課與通行每年都有這個成效平和的成績那我們看到好像特優有縣市政府拿過特優嗎有有苗栗縣喔去那邊喔找到他們那裡苗栗我看有通行譽品的那裡有沒有特優的有我現在說的是特優有嗎"},{"start":72.796,"end":79.201,"text":"現的沒有,但是有優等,但是鄉鎮的有我問的是,直轄市跟縣市有特優等嗎縣市和優等級,鄉鎮公所有特優級所以縣市都沒有人拿過特優"},{"start":99.707,"end":125.924,"text":"沒有嘛,我問的原來縣市和門櫃哪個特優啊那我有看到苗栗縣,苗栗縣有拿過優等然後再來都是加等嘛,都是加等所以我們看到我們這個課宇的推廣我們符合我們課委會的標準的其實縣市不多,就是縣市不多但是我的問題"},{"start":126.804,"end":134.991,"text":"能不能突然間你們對於這個客家委員會推動客語為通行語的成效平和及獎勵作業要點"},{"start":137.045,"end":158.718,"text":"突然改變他的這種審核標準,這也難得,主婦妳知道嗎?知道這是為什麼呢?因為裡面有很多的指標,多項的指標那些指標真的可以對應到鼓勵大眾來說客語這件事情"},{"start":159.358,"end":180.593,"text":"所以過去的指標通常都是在縣市公所裡頭的人員我們現在有一部分的指標把它拿到現在就是說原本可能6000名突破就可以拿到優等那你現在"},{"start":181.755,"end":196.762,"text":"能夠突破六千人的縣市就不多了你又把標準提高到一萬三這個對於在努力推廣客家化的縣市會很大的挫折因為你看你推廣"},{"start":198.143,"end":222.573,"text":"就好比說老師說我們請大家要努力考到60分以上最好還有80分結果60分的就很少了你現在呢及格60分就很少你現在把及格又變又提高到75分那大家都不想好好念書啦好 我就兩位台北人說啊我們新竹縣政府"},{"start":226.394,"end":240.27,"text":"推動客家不遺餘力所以我們新竹縣是客家人口比例全國最高我們總人數不多所以人數"},{"start":241.711,"end":266.34,"text":"跟其他縣市比不贏包括直轄市嘛但我們人口比例最高所以在新竹縣客家化各方面我們推動起來我們很希望是把這個客家文化好好的推廣跟傳承而且也是一個很值得也一定會有好成績的一個縣市嘛對不對那所以縣政府在過去他的預算從346萬"},{"start":268.841,"end":284.736,"text":"他自己縣政府編預算在做客家的事編到6370萬英語才化法國還有縣市多了很多的預算才化法國才幾個月而已今年才到4月而已公教認證人數也從560人提升到了3370人"},{"start":289.64,"end":307.052,"text":"那學生認證的從只有327也提升到3584人那社區的課程也從兩班變成292班你看都是幾十倍的成長結果他們很努力想要往優等來爭取"},{"start":309.775,"end":335.673,"text":"那已經快接近了你就突然把六千人的優等你又提高到一萬三這對地方很大的打擊所以我要問你們為什麼突然提高有什麼有什麼充分的理由因為你整個的推廣就推廣的不好然後個縣市也很難達到那你現在又把標準提高你這在打擊地方啊"},{"start":336.493,"end":362.987,"text":"沒有這樣啦 我們的設想都不是打擊 都是要要有一個目標 本來要去朝向啦你現在六千人就已經不多 你知道優等一直都只有苗栗縣 六千人那你現在又突然把六千優等改到一萬三我不知道 我們二十幾個縣市現在我請教主委 二十幾個縣市拿過優等的你跟我講"},{"start":364.122,"end":383.099,"text":"某一堆我知道沒有幾個就是苗栗而已結果你只有一個苗栗然後我們應該是想辦法讓更多縣市它達到這個程度啊新竹縣這麼努力結果被澆冷水白體委員是在為新竹縣請命"},{"start":385.721,"end":411.091,"text":"其實應該說我們是為努力的請命那你看其他縣市他連優等甚至加等都沒有的他根本不會想甩你他根本客家話他就不會想努力去做啊我們回頭來再來檢討看看所以本席真的要請你們第一個你如果要改我是看不到你們音樂也講不出來你為什麼要突然這樣改"},{"start":412.857,"end":428.223,"text":"那你突然改你沒有任何理由而且你前面定的標準不是說前面定的標準大家都達到全部都等於你一個階段一個階段大家都上岸了你再往下一個階段不是沒有人跟得上你的腳步你就繼續往上"},{"start":429.804,"end":446.776,"text":"哇 這個很打擊地方耶因為這樣行業通行業已經六年了六年那一屆整個階段我就問這六年這六年你優等有誰嘛你現在馬上跟我說這六年只有苗栗縣政府嘛"},{"start":447.697,"end":467.034,"text":"你六年來只有一個縣市達到優等然後你現在就一直把標準提高,你應該要想著六年只有一個,那你要怎麼再去鼓勵更多人達到優等啊我相信大家聽完一定認同我相信大家聽完一定認同我相信大家聽完一定認同我相信大家聽完一定認同我相信大家聽完一定認同我相信大家聽完一定認同"},{"start":475.041,"end":494.887,"text":"所以現在就是說 有點像只有一個優等生 其他學生你要讓他跟上啊我們一般30個人 我還有20幾個都跟不上有一兩個或兩三個 他在努力跟的時候 哇 你教得他冷水其實這個政策這樣做真的太打擊地方了"},{"start":498.088,"end":519.835,"text":"最後不好意思我再用一點時間就是我們推廣客家文化我們希望有更多生活的活動生活的推廣方式我們也想建議我們客委會譬如說在生活中我們是不是辦一些野餐音樂會其實在那裡可以選購"},{"start":525.561,"end":538.338,"text":"客家歌謠還有客家流行音樂然後又可以吃著我們的客家美食類似這種讓大家在生活中可以"},{"start":540.519,"end":563.467,"text":"來體會感受客家文化那這種活動是不是我們可以多鼓勵甚至我們有一些專案給各縣市他們可以來做來申請這個是第一個那再來就是我們振興我們客家的一些產業的部分是不是客會也可以多輔導我們有一些"},{"start":564.908,"end":583.899,"text":"就像我剛才講的 可能一般人會覺得那個是有的時候比較感覺是鄉下人吃的可是你稍微包裝以後 大家覺得又好吃 然後又想吃像這一個部分 客委會是不是可以積極地來做我想我再加問這個問題"},{"start":585.56,"end":608.925,"text":"感謝委員,您的建議,我們都跟持開放的態度討論,形成一個政策,跟地方政府和民間社團合作的推動,委員的建議,我們就另一場。對啊,因為香港政府有很多的建議,我們就在看,要不然"},{"start":611.385,"end":635.762,"text":"分配一下那怎麼樣在我們課語的推廣更生活化這樣子來落實除了你看你考試你已經讓人家努力考試你都讓他很挫折那你給一些生活一點的讓更多人我們是希望包含不是客家人他們都很願意來講客家人你看剛剛王洪威委員說得動作我會說我也會"},{"start":638.404,"end":639.024,"text":"我們一起努力啦 好不好好 神明 神明"}]}},{"id":"168102","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168102","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cbfb46a7abc3c2f6ebad885c3c28ba2b24047e563c2ae1609ab1e007f00cecbda5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王安祥","委員發言時間":"10:29:39 - 10:40:11","影片長度":"00:10:32","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:29:39+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:40:11+08:00","duration":632,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.0178437500000004,"end":3.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.79409375,"end":7.236593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.835968750000001,"end":7.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.290343750000002,"end":44.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.83034375,"end":14.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.96909375,"end":46.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.268468750000004,"end":46.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.572218750000005,"end":50.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.94284375,"end":59.19471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.182218750000004,"end":59.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":59.19471875000001,"end":60.797843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.797843750000006,"end":63.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.814718750000004,"end":66.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.84346875,"end":77.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.95159375,"end":97.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.36034375,"end":80.23784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.76096875,"end":80.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.70784375000001,"end":121.53096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.95284375000001,"end":123.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.47159375000001,"end":123.72471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.19721875,"end":125.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.61471875000001,"end":146.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.74971875000001,"end":126.37409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.84596875,"end":131.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.02159375000002,"end":141.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.03846875000002,"end":141.86534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.48909375,"end":148.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.02471875,"end":174.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.53534375,"end":176.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.34096875,"end":176.56034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.76659375,"end":194.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.30159375000002,"end":185.72346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.72346875000002,"end":185.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.32221875000002,"end":188.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.76846875,"end":198.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.66659375,"end":201.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.95721875,"end":203.93159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.25221875000003,"end":206.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.51346875000002,"end":213.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.76971875,"end":222.83159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.06784375,"end":225.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.75096875000003,"end":226.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.56096875,"end":234.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":233.64846875,"end":241.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":241.68096875,"end":247.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":247.73909375000002,"end":270.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.95909375,"end":271.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":271.04346875000005,"end":271.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":271.78596875,"end":289.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.74096875000004,"end":289.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.77471875000003,"end":289.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":290.29784375,"end":290.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.31471875,"end":293.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.01034375,"end":294.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.02284375,"end":304.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.33784375000005,"end":310.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.22284375000004,"end":318.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":318.44534375,"end":342.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":343.13346875,"end":355.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.05534375,"end":364.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":364.27784375000005,"end":364.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.61534375,"end":364.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.00346875,"end":370.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.95596875,"end":382.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.78971875,"end":392.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.07096875,"end":395.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":395.02409375,"end":395.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.10846875000004,"end":395.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":395.29409375,"end":395.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":395.71596875,"end":404.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.18721875,"end":441.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.53971875,"end":444.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":446.13846875,"end":449.32784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.56409375000004,"end":453.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":454.01909375,"end":490.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.60409375,"end":515.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":515.0390937500001,"end":556.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":556.75409375,"end":556.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.7709687500001,"end":564.5672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.76971875,"end":568.4990937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.4990937499999,"end":568.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.83659375,"end":603.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.21596875,"end":571.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":582.72471875,"end":584.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":587.6015937500001,"end":587.9053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.01846875,"end":593.3728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.1615937500001,"end":595.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.22909375,"end":595.4990937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.4990937499999,"end":595.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.7509687500001,"end":609.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.2309687500001,"end":614.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":614.8547187500001,"end":614.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":615.1415937500001,"end":629.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.48596875,"end":625.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.89096875,"end":627.59534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.213,"end":3.333,"text":"請林副長"},{"start":14.315,"end":41.838,"text":"部長早 剛我聽到前面也有委員提到WTO的這個事情就是前一陣子3.26因為已經過了就是部長級的會議其實這個戈外龍這邊有一些矮化我們的狀況他把我們變成Providence of Taiwan所以看起來後來我們這邊的決定就是不出席了那部長這邊覺得這個不出席會不會影響到一些我們有關一些經貿上面談判的一些權益"},{"start":43.039,"end":63.593,"text":"就這次議題我們的書面資料都還是有到場所以並沒有影響可是我們不能形成一個先例所以我們除了抗議然後去交涉然後他們也後來也做了一些想要補救好像不OK嘛因為名字錯了然後性別也不對好像有點誇張這樣子"},{"start":66.215,"end":94.816,"text":"那是我們就是說前事不忘後事之事我們對於後續要申請第15次這個部長級會議的國家我們就有像接下來是沙烏地阿拉伯嗎對 他們也要爭取主辦就是說是不是可以因為有這一次的剛剛隊長說有這一次的借鏡是不是可以就是針對下一次就是在這個沙烏地阿拉伯舉辦的時候能夠有一些事前的一些準備或是得到他們一些承諾"},{"start":96.717,"end":122.465,"text":"我們要求就是他們必須要對台灣有所承諾然後也要讓這個WTO的秘書處也需要廣為周知其實台灣在過去除了WTO之外在APEC比較常發生可是自從秘魯那一次我們據理力爭那也得到各國的支持之後其實就建立了有相當長時間中國是透過所謂的兩會把它就是變成"},{"start":124.405,"end":144.675,"text":"兩岸關係來處理我們後來又回到APEC的管道到韓國的時候在慶周舉行的時候就已經比較恢復了我們也希望說今年在深圳主辦的時候都能夠依照相關的規範這些都有一些不管是重要的"},{"start":147.096,"end":172.883,"text":"組織章程啊或者是決議來進行因為這個好像也蠻突然的本期就是提醒外部這邊在下一屆的時候要特別注意這個事情因為它裡面有一個主題就是有關於我們這個電子傳輸的那個稅的部分可以獲評我想這個部分因為跟這個可能跟這個經濟部跟這個財務部這邊很多有點關係不曉得大家有沒有針對這個部分有一些具體的它好像是沒有討論還是說就我們這邊的部分是不是有請我們請經濟部來說明"},{"start":180.906,"end":201.478,"text":"有關於這次那個電子傳輸他要佔豁免關稅的部分延長部分大家都沒有達到共識在這邊所以第一個我們會密切的關注他後續的發展因為支持這樣子豁免的國家是非常的多所以我們第一個要支持就是觀察後續的發展"},{"start":202.011,"end":226.068,"text":"第二個呢就是我們因為大部分的我們的重要貿易夥伴其實是支持這樣的延長所以我們會去看說未來呢這些重要貿易夥伴對這個議題是不是會形成一個另外一個多邊的一個協議這個也是需要密切觀察那因為我們在日內瓦代表有代表團所以我們利用"},{"start":226.808,"end":246.564,"text":"我們在日內瓦代表團跟其他的這些代表團的會持續的參與相關的討論因為影響可能蠻大的所以我也是提醒這件事情可能要密切的持續的注意好 感謝那接下來就是部長就是我們這邊的那個"},{"start":247.905,"end":270.743,"text":"辦公室有接到一些電話主要就針對越南辦事處的部分因為我們現在就是做南向政策我想越南是我們很重要的一個國家而且我們現在移工的部分其實在越南的部分他們做一個輸出國其實數量蠻多的我們這邊有接到的就是好像越南辦事處常常打電話好像找不到人越南駐台"},{"start":273.982,"end":292.321,"text":"臺北的越南辦事處臺北的越南辦事處就是常常會找不到人或電話沒有人接我們去查一些過去的資料好像過去也有人有這樣的反應不知道部長是不是要這個狀況還是有做一些了解我請亞太司看有沒有掌握這個狀況"},{"start":294.416,"end":315.774,"text":"報告委員過去確實曾經有這樣的反應那我們也一而再再而三在一些相當的場合裡面向他們越南駐台代表轉達但是因為他們本身業務量跟人員的調配方面事實上他們可能在辦公時間回應的速度有點慢但是我們也會持續請他們繼續在這邊做改進 謝謝"},{"start":318.736,"end":342.568,"text":"對 因為我真的是看到很多過去我們查到2011年開始就有人這樣反映不過看起來截至目前為止還是有人跟我們的辦公室做這樣子的反映我想南向政策 越南這個地方對我們來說蠻重要而且我們的移工很多而且真的他們要恰功辦理一些文件的這個部分其實是蠻頻繁的我不知道就是說"},{"start":343.428,"end":369.825,"text":"我想那邊當然是越南那邊他們的一個主政的狀況不曉得因應這個部分如果他們真的有一些人他沒有辦法取得即時性的一些聯絡不知道這邊有沒有什麼提供協助的部分當然因為這涉及到他們住管在這裡我們可以跟他協調怎麼樣來改善或他需要我們什麼協助因為確實台越之間的這個不管是就是說"},{"start":372.242,"end":394.532,"text":"這涉及到的包括移民、勞工、經貿、觀光、社企、婚姻等等業務真的很多我想外交就是雙方的一個關係我們還是有看到這樣的狀況還是請外交部是不是能夠在這個地方多琢磨一下我們多加了解之後看怎麼樣去協助它改善"},{"start":395.768,"end":408.763,"text":"那剛剛下一個題目就是有關於這個剛剛其實前面很多的委員有提到因為這個委員前面關心的就是所謂的這個榮邦的經貿辦的這個部分"},{"start":411.266,"end":430.008,"text":"那因為部長上任以後其實就一直在宣示我們不要警戒外交我們大概都是用這個所謂的總和外交的方式或者榮邦的方式透過政府這個剛剛部長說G2G或者是B2B就是透過民間的方式來這個增加我們的這個跟我們的"},{"start":431.089,"end":452.08,"text":"不只是邦交國啦,或是不非邦交國之間的一些關係啦所以我們就去查了一下相關的一些這個預算的一些編列啦不過我們看起來齁,這個預算的部分啦好,下一頁就是我們看一下有一些這個預算齁就是在我們那個"},{"start":454.082,"end":479.705,"text":"另外一個部分,這個部分大概都在第二項目的部分我們看到這個大家可以看到我們的螢幕上其實這兩項寫起來差不多不過好像這個增加了大概50億左右這個基礎是用編列的預算並不是立法院後來審議後的預算就增加了大概50億另外就是這一部分也是一樣的部分包含這個第二項他們有包含的部分好像多了大概19億左右"},{"start":480.706,"end":502.079,"text":"那我在猜是不是這個就是有關於跟榮邦計畫有關實質上推動所增加的預算不曉得這個部長是不是對他溢出在這個部分針對榮邦計畫有八個旗艦那總共預算有68億大概這個部分我們有完整的預算的說明"},{"start":503.019,"end":524.546,"text":"至於說這個寫的方式啦因為這個還不是到個別預算的那個項目那我們會提供詳細的資料給委員來參考是是是 那當然我們希望這個人幫計畫希望有些實質上的一些作用所以我們也想知道說這些錢是分配在哪一個部分再請這個部長這邊再給我們一些進一步的這個說明好 謝謝"},{"start":529.088,"end":555.131,"text":"那另外就是我們那個有一個這個台歐的這個獎學金的部分就這個部分這個部分也是好像要把它做一些整併也是多了非常非常多的錢那過去其實這個已經有在做就是我們這個有過斯化伐克捷克的部分不曉得過去針對這個經費的挹注好像跟那個什麼半導體什麼都有關係不曉得這個有沒有在做一些追蹤過去的成效怎麼樣那這些拿到獎學金的人現在的狀況如何"},{"start":556.843,"end":583.838,"text":"是,我們布蘭透過國會跟工研院去培訓人才因為他要進入半導體這個供應鏈必須先有人才所以我們有個中東OR這個所謂供應鏈韌性的計畫我們也增加了波蘭因為波蘭是4000萬人口那之前是捷克、斯洛伐克跟立陶宛那我們也擴增到這個波羅的海的三國所以確實在規模跟項目上我們是有擴大都有增加嘛"},{"start":584.298,"end":602.423,"text":"那現在就是說效果來講以捷克我們是政府跟他們政府簽署的幾個大的一個合作案進展都很好我也親自到捷克看過所以這個預算應該是反映尤其是人才的方面是我們也辦過"},{"start":604.294,"end":629.283,"text":"結業典禮我也主持過確實那個反應是很好因為台灣就是在人才的這個方面是可以說他們要進入半導體必備的一個條件所以我想台灣這個當然這個晶片或是半導體這邊非常的強所以我也想知道一下包含這個過去的一些成效也許可以提供一些資料好 我們一起努力 謝謝好 謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"168101","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168101","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cf845d8cfa915b0b5811c6ac3ddeb80e04047e563c2ae16095235172bced87b3e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"10:24:17 - 10:36:13","影片長度":"00:11:56","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林沛祥等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林德福等31人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員涂權吉等23人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員許宇甄等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員黃健豪等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員羅智強等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員游顥等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員賴士葆等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員羅明才等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法繼承編施行法增訂第十二條條文草案」案。\n【4月1日及2日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:24:17+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:36:13+08:00","duration":716,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-5-36-5"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.505968750000001,"end":12.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.395968750000002,"end":14.324093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.05784375,"end":17.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.15471875,"end":22.609718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.132843750000003,"end":24.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.297218750000003,"end":26.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.94659375,"end":34.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.540343750000005,"end":40.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.59846875,"end":44.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.68284375,"end":40.969718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.44159375,"end":52.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.52909375,"end":57.625343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.945968750000006,"end":72.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.44159375000001,"end":91.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.51034375,"end":91.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.23596875000001,"end":96.03284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.53909375,"end":97.31534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.78784375000001,"end":107.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.50784375,"end":116.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.07596875,"end":121.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.64909375,"end":124.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.02409375,"end":126.59346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.96471875,"end":133.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.51221875000002,"end":134.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.92971875,"end":140.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.90346875,"end":159.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.21284375000002,"end":160.91721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.23784375,"end":162.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.24596875,"end":164.71409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.40596875,"end":168.40971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.66284375,"end":170.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.19409375,"end":175.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.96971875,"end":180.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.37409375000001,"end":208.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.38284375,"end":206.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.79159375,"end":208.89284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.89284375000003,"end":213.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.90971875000002,"end":208.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.97221875000002,"end":217.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.49909375000001,"end":231.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.24346875,"end":247.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.04284375,"end":251.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.68346875,"end":259.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.42909375,"end":269.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.82846875,"end":274.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.17784375,"end":281.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.41721875,"end":288.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.89721875000004,"end":300.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.57471875000005,"end":307.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.72971875,"end":310.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.58159375,"end":312.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.07909375,"end":313.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.31096875000003,"end":316.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.24721875,"end":319.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.82471875000005,"end":321.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.44471875,"end":341.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.41221875,"end":341.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.53034375000004,"end":350.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.35596875000005,"end":355.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.55346875000004,"end":367.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.44596875,"end":371.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.36096875000004,"end":380.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.15284375000005,"end":387.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.46409375,"end":387.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.51471875000004,"end":394.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.45034375,"end":399.64784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.68159375000005,"end":405.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.63846875,"end":410.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.56159375000004,"end":411.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.59534375000004,"end":414.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.83534375000005,"end":417.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.70409375,"end":421.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.58534375000005,"end":435.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.19221875000005,"end":427.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.60034375000004,"end":437.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.05534375,"end":441.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.25721875000005,"end":445.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.34534375000004,"end":446.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.04971875,"end":459.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.62596875,"end":458.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.30096875000004,"end":459.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.45284375000006,"end":470.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.36659375000005,"end":474.60659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.92721875,"end":477.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.20096875,"end":509.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.60534375000003,"end":513.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.53721875,"end":514.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.7522187500001,"end":524.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.6284687500001,"end":524.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.53971875,"end":536.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.72846875,"end":533.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.74034375,"end":541.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.77409375,"end":538.9678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.27971875,"end":543.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.4734687499999,"end":551.3372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.36784375,"end":544.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.8772187500001,"end":552.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":553.1597187500001,"end":555.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.14659375,"end":558.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.0322187500001,"end":566.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.9297187500001,"end":567.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.4484687500001,"end":568.9209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.3090937500001,"end":571.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.51971875,"end":573.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.03409375,"end":576.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.53159375,"end":577.8984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.6072187500001,"end":580.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.6828437500001,"end":588.3103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.3490937500001,"end":584.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.5972187500001,"end":590.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.1203437500001,"end":589.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.1372187500001,"end":590.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.2847187500001,"end":591.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.1453437499999,"end":595.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.6047187500001,"end":594.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.2122187500001,"end":599.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.9878437500001,"end":602.3334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.3759687500001,"end":612.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.3022187500001,"end":613.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.07846875,"end":616.1709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.1709687499999,"end":617.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.74471875,"end":622.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.35971875,"end":629.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.39659375,"end":632.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.21471875,"end":635.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.6784687500001,"end":642.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":643.3059687500001,"end":644.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.63909375,"end":647.9128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.28409375,"end":657.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.41346875,"end":667.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.70346875,"end":664.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.9309687500001,"end":667.3359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.8759687500001,"end":672.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.8928437500001,"end":668.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.61784375,"end":678.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.71909375,"end":673.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":673.4953437500001,"end":674.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.54096875,"end":678.6084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.96284375,"end":678.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.9965937500001,"end":692.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.3447187500001,"end":696.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":696.2765937500001,"end":699.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":699.5334687500001,"end":702.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":703.09409375,"end":704.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":704.98409375,"end":713.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.44346875,"end":708.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.40471875,"end":713.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.94034375,"end":716.35784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.816,"end":39.797,"text":"主席我們請次長有請次長我也好次長好我想說早上到現在的整個詢答過程大概其實整個我們有關於這個這個繼承的這個特留份制度兄弟姊妹的部分的討論其實大概我覺得釐清的差不多了那這部分我是想說利用短短時間來大家做一個整理以利於"},{"start":40.658,"end":54.93,"text":"如果今天要進入主條討論的話最後的立法結果我想這部分來做溝通剛剛很多委員都提到其實這個特留份的制度設計本來現代民法的精神本來就是"},{"start":58.152,"end":75.782,"text":"私有財產權神聖不可侵犯是私有財產所以遺主自由原本是我的財產我死後才要怎麼分配是我遺主自由我個人意志的展現但是就是因為基於他有一些這個這個有關於這個繼承人一些基本的權益"},{"start":76.662,"end":90.235,"text":"或者是這個至少享有一定成立的程度的保障生活保障的情況之下他設計了一個橫屏制度在遺產自由跟這個跟這個繼承人基本權益之間的一個橫屏特留分設計本來就是這樣子"},{"start":91.596,"end":115.789,"text":"那當初我們所謂特留份哪些人會有特留份他其實跟這個這個第114條的這個撫養義務其實他是有關聯的就是說你在親屬片裡面你父有撫養義務所以因為這個所謂特留份他就有一種所謂死後撫養的這種性質就死後死後撫養性質所以大家可以互付"},{"start":117.313,"end":134.236,"text":"互付撫養義務啦我生前有對你有撫養義務那你死後我有這個死後的撫養大概這樣的精神那現在所以過去的立法裡面會這樣子立法他就是因為這樣那當然剛剛前面我也提到就是你現在是一個社會"},{"start":135.057,"end":162.143,"text":"形態的改變所以在當初早期的立法其實不只是我們台灣的這個民法其實所有很多大陸法系的國家都有這種兄弟姊妹特留份的設計但是因為家庭形態改變導致現在產生一大堆很多的這個諸多的這種案例引起社會的非議就是說可能平常兄弟姊妹也沒有在互相撫養那也沒有甚至根本就沒有聯繫那影響再加上這個"},{"start":163.303,"end":189.45,"text":"現在少子化的這個家庭這個家庭結構的變遷甚至很多就沒有子女的他們這些所謂高齡配偶的這個生活保障他卻受到完全互不相似的互不往來的這個這個被繼承人的兄弟姊妹來要求這個影響到他的居住權等等相關的這樣子的配套問題所以今天才有這樣討論那我看今天有這麼多的草案"},{"start":190.43,"end":216.422,"text":"其實這個我們過去其實105年我們105年的時候我們有法務部有提過一個整個這個特留份的整個調整的修正草案那時候的修正草案其實不只是兄弟姐妹其實連配偶你們整個都有做這個比例的調整下降比例把特留份的比例做下降這是當年的這個這個修法的精神但是因為你那個當年的修法牽涉到配偶的這個"},{"start":218.224,"end":231.481,"text":"這個特留份的降低這也引起了這個社會這個婦女團體的一些疑慮那在這樣的爭議之下所以當年就在屆期不連續的情況之下就擱置了你們也沒有再提了"},{"start":233.268,"end":247.112,"text":"那今天我看到這樣看起來我算是二十案併成這個二十個都是委員提案沒有法務部的版本那二十案併成裡面我們今天就要針對這個二十個委員的提案來進行這個逐條討論要經過完成修法程序"},{"start":252.865,"end":280.352,"text":"這樣子我就看一下這20案其實這20案並不是都一樣的其實裡面是有差別的各個委員的提案不太一樣最多的最單純的就是直接就把兄弟姊妹的退留分刪除了這個我看是最多委員提案就是直接刪除看起來很單純那這個另外一種形態他是這個也有委員的提案他除了兄弟姊妹刪除以外祖父母也給他刪除了也有這樣子的提案"},{"start":282.475,"end":304.466,"text":"那另外還有提案是把放進日本的貢獻份的概念就是把限縮兄弟姊妹特留份的增加一些要件增加他的是不是有謀生能力還有他是不是有撫養事實這樣子的增加這些要件這也是一種修法"},{"start":305.006,"end":318.305,"text":"再加上我們法務部105年的版本這個是直接降低比例簡單講就是針對兄弟姊妹特留份的調整大概就這四個方向都有法案在"},{"start":322.546,"end":349.236,"text":"所以我們如果進入逐條我們就會針對這些法案剛才我們所有法務部的回答都是講說你們其實有在檢討你們也已經有委託學者研究研究報告也已經完成了你們依據這個研究報告現在在召開這個修法的研議會議已經召開了一次對不對那你們希望說召開幾次之後把這個完整的整體的這個版本你們一直強調配套措施"},{"start":350.416,"end":369.787,"text":"那大家我想今天如果說要不要在委員會裡面把這個就依照這20個修正法案我們就直接通過我想最關鍵的就是你們所謂的配套到底重不重要到底這配套是整套一起修比較好還是說我們今天就單獨這個先刪除了配套你們以後再來這大概就今天大概就只有這兩種選擇這兩種選擇"},{"start":372.438,"end":399.384,"text":"那這個所以我們就應該要來看說是整個你們所謂的配套到底有哪一些有哪一些配套這部分是不是要請市長你剛剛因為這個東扯一點西扯一點有講到貢獻份有講到這個這個這個撫養義務有講到甚至講到這個這個這個遺產的這個佐給的制度這些你是不是稍微簡短但是完整的提到有哪些配套你們要做"},{"start":399.764,"end":410.072,"text":"更為報告一旦全部刪除了兄弟姊妹的特留份之後呢那兄弟姊妹萬一他生前兄弟姊妹他消極的被撫養"},{"start":412.136,"end":428.362,"text":"這時候要不要給他一些遺產著給消極的被撫養第二狀況他是積極的撫養這個被繼承人他有貢獻他對財產的增加對被害的這個被繼承人有貢獻這要不要給他貢獻份從消極面積極面未來整個一個貢獻份一個就是這個著給遺產著給這兩個嘛你們提到這兩個配套"},{"start":438.146,"end":458.458,"text":"另外有一個剛才大家沒有提到就是我剛才有稍微提到就是在日本的修法日本在2019年修法他們特別針對現在的這個社會形態少子化高齡者居住的形態他們特別設計了這個所謂配偶居住權的保障設計"},{"start":459.698,"end":477.247,"text":"這樣的配偶居住權保障設計我覺得如果說配偶如果說配套我認為說這應該要放在配套裡面來一併檢討一併修法啦就是不要說到現在的狀況就是可能我們就是老夫老妻兩個人住結果配偶"},{"start":478.263,"end":493.776,"text":"死亡被繼承那我只有這個房子住但是因為這個特留份我就要來分配這個我可能所有財產只有這棟房子就要來分配這棟房子的所有權導致我整個他連居住的地方都沒有或者甚至如果繼續繼續居住要幾戶"},{"start":496.898,"end":525.016,"text":"給付這個不當得利的這些金錢所以為了解決這個問題日本才有這樣子的所謂配偶保障配偶居住權的這個這個部分我們在現在的研擬裡面有沒有包括這個部分各位報告這個研究報告裡面其實有建議要增修這部分那我們現在的研擬對 我們整個計程片有包括這部分但是因為立法的啟程我們現在三階段這部分我會放在後面階段我們等一下先把特留份那部分先拿出來單獨先抽出來立法好 所以"},{"start":525.876,"end":550.893,"text":"你們所謂的配現在所謂說希望給你們時間有配套的部分還不包括沒有包括配有居住權因為你如果包括這個配有居住權可能就它修的就很大了配有居住權可能要單獨成為一張而且那是我們國家現行沒有的制度要創製的制度那這部分我希望說我們在整個配套"},{"start":553.195,"end":580.089,"text":"這個它是第二階段但是我覺得非常重要在現在我拿掉這個兄弟姊妹特留份等等相關的配套我覺得這個部分是重要的配套這個要一併考量那所有這一些我們剛剛大概都談了你們所謂的配套大概就是這些東西但是大家更關心的就是說那你們研擬了那麼久你們到底什麼時候可以提出來"},{"start":581.531,"end":599.137,"text":"我剛剛一再回覆幾個委員我們希望本會議結束之前把法案完成預告提出預告那可能時程就跟本委員會的期待就有點落差了因為我跟委員報告我們現在這個4月其實4月了我們現在要召開第二次會議"},{"start":600.057,"end":622.358,"text":"那會期結束大概五六月嘛其實你們也可以再拖個兩年就在我們民法實施百年的時候做一個整個民法的整體配套的整個修改也可以啊再過兩年就我們民法就實施一百年啊那你也可以拖到那個時候啊不會 不然我也不會拖啦但是你如果說你們希望說在這個會期結束之前才是提出預告而已那可能跟"},{"start":623.393,"end":634.794,"text":"本委會的期待會有點落差我是希望說你們不只是在本會期結束之前提出法案送到立法院來我甚至希望如果"},{"start":635.731,"end":653.517,"text":"如果這個在刪除兄弟姊妹的這個特留份的部分在本委員會如果等一下逐條審查有高度共識那我甚至希望如果說今天保留條文你們能夠在保留協商完成之前把這個法案提出來這樣子就有機會在這次整個立法過程裡面一併討論"},{"start":654.657,"end":678.345,"text":"因為總是這個制度的變革你們沒有一個官方的態度也很奇怪啊我完全贊成那委員也清楚知道我們的法案預告完成之後要送行政院審查還會嫌司法院再送到大院他有一定的立法的一個期程啦程序所以現在在會期結束前只剩下這會期大概剩兩三個月這個期程事實上也對他因為他還要還要行政院審查會嫌司法院"},{"start":679.165,"end":702.379,"text":"這是要會前的法案這部分如果你們趕不及那很有可能很有可能就我們就直接就刪除就直接刪除兄弟姊妹的特留份其他配套你們自己再再去再去再去趕路了變成這樣子了我這樣子這樣的立法我個人會覺得會有點缺憾會留下遺憾就是說你這個修法你們一個連官方版本都沒有一個制度的變革連一個官方態度"},{"start":705.281,"end":712.852,"text":"都沒有展現 我是覺得不是很妥當這部分我們就等一下留到主條討論的時候大家來看看是不是能夠有共識好 謝謝謝謝沈委員"}]}},{"id":"168100","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168100","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c1e64de3bc78e9098331a35e1dda586ae4047e563c2ae160908f75701a873fd4f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"10:28:21 - 10:35:41","影片長度":"00:07:20","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「能源轉型政策下我國產業發展布局，及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就「AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及扶助政策規劃與執行情形」進行報告，並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:28:21+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:35:41+08:00","duration":440,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.57909375,"end":6.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.029093750000001,"end":15.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.29846875,"end":18.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.555343750000002,"end":20.550968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.39034375,"end":29.950343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.08534375,"end":33.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.22409375,"end":37.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.84784375,"end":38.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.50596875,"end":39.822218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.37909375,"end":41.189093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.35784375,"end":41.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.37471875,"end":41.408468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.408468750000004,"end":41.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.42534375,"end":41.712218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.712218750000005,"end":43.737218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.142218750000005,"end":46.251593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.75784375,"end":48.141593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.44534375,"end":48.782843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.221593750000004,"end":53.727218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.19971875,"end":58.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.21596875,"end":59.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.02159375,"end":61.455968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.89471875,"end":64.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.88159375000001,"end":66.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.02471875,"end":67.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.07096875,"end":70.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.95659375000001,"end":72.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.55971875,"end":72.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.28096875,"end":74.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.85471875,"end":78.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.73596875,"end":81.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.62159375,"end":83.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.23721875000001,"end":84.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.23284375,"end":86.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.30846875,"end":88.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.06346875,"end":90.12659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.73409375,"end":91.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.84784375000001,"end":95.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.59409375,"end":98.80034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.01971875000001,"end":99.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.38659375,"end":102.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.50846875,"end":103.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.25096875000001,"end":106.63034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.98471875000001,"end":107.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.19971875,"end":114.00471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.52784375,"end":124.73721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.17596875000001,"end":128.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.44534375,"end":130.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.99346875,"end":133.09034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.29284375,"end":136.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.05596875,"end":139.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.97534375,"end":142.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.48971875,"end":151.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.55596875,"end":152.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.31096875,"end":154.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.50471875000002,"end":156.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.05284375000002,"end":161.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.54159375,"end":167.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.80221875,"end":169.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.86096875,"end":170.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.02971875,"end":170.95784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.39659375000002,"end":171.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.41346875000002,"end":172.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.57784375,"end":172.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.16846875000002,"end":186.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.55471875,"end":187.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.02284375000002,"end":195.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.71471875,"end":188.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.50346875000002,"end":189.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.90846875000003,"end":191.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.27471875,"end":200.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.30846875,"end":196.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.03346875000003,"end":214.39409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.95534375000003,"end":220.43534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.73909375000002,"end":220.75596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.75596875000002,"end":221.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.97096875000003,"end":225.32909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.05534375000002,"end":222.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.00034375,"end":223.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.58221875,"end":225.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.80159375000002,"end":225.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.32471875000002,"end":229.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.25659375,"end":231.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.31534375,"end":232.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.90596875000003,"end":239.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.01034375,"end":240.65159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.17471875,"end":244.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.56659375,"end":250.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.46846875000003,"end":252.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.63284375,"end":254.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.86034375000003,"end":256.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.80096875000004,"end":261.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.74534375,"end":266.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.34784375000004,"end":269.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.03096875,"end":271.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.90409375,"end":280.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.81409375000004,"end":281.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.69159375000004,"end":282.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.60284375000003,"end":285.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.53909375,"end":294.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.73596875000004,"end":297.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.81971875,"end":300.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.49034375,"end":305.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.60346875000005,"end":306.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.17721875,"end":306.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.30784375,"end":309.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.66596875000005,"end":310.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.13846875,"end":316.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.97284375000004,"end":319.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.03596875,"end":319.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.06971875,"end":319.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.96409375,"end":327.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.35534375000003,"end":331.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.33784375000005,"end":336.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.94471875000005,"end":347.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.94034375,"end":338.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.31471875,"end":344.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.97659375,"end":348.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.60096875000005,"end":350.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.76534375,"end":357.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.20284375,"end":359.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.07596875,"end":361.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.54409375,"end":363.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.83909375,"end":367.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.39971875000003,"end":367.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.12534375,"end":374.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.32784375,"end":368.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.67784375,"end":370.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.40284375000005,"end":379.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.70596875,"end":382.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.88721875000005,"end":391.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.61971875,"end":395.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.52221875000004,"end":394.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.95221875000004,"end":398.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.01971875000004,"end":408.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.61784375,"end":402.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.92971875,"end":405.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.78596875000005,"end":407.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.78159375,"end":419.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.92034375000003,"end":411.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.12659375000004,"end":414.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.81346875,"end":427.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.96846875,"end":439.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.99221875,"end":438.19034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.61,"end":6.393,"text":"現在我們請教會求職委員員執行謝謝主席 邀請經濟部核市長 國會業主委另外農業組 吳署長國務院長"},{"start":23.496,"end":39.752,"text":"星期五經濟委會在新達電廠的考察針對電協經的相關制度引起地方上很大的問題會中決議一個月之內提出相關檢討辦法一個月大概就是四月底"},{"start":40.413,"end":63.707,"text":"提出來可以嗎?是可以可以讓大家都可以接受到雙贏地方都可以接受然後台電也可以執行然後這個整個制度設計一定要跟地方上多充分說明還跟市政府跟像當地的這些里長可以吧?可以好謝謝那個署長先請回那我先請教這個運動也是一種產業"},{"start":68.157,"end":89.378,"text":"像這個你看職棒剛37年剛開幕滿場4萬多人這個在10年前這個大概不會有這種攏景因為這個時候向我們得到冠軍然後這個變成一個大家非常去進場去看球是一種修行也是一種活動"},{"start":90.779,"end":97.535,"text":"那幾乎每一場都人數都是上萬以上所以怎麼樣去協助國發會跟經濟部啊國發會"},{"start":100.444,"end":128.6,"text":"你們有經濟處嘛對不對有產業發展處嘛那這個經濟部的話是哪一個單位針對運動產業你怎麼樣讓運動產業能夠比方說我舉一個例子來說以前日本這個職業足球剛開始的時候人沒有很多他用政策去協助租稅讓這些公司成立這個球團然後行銷啦然後跟國際合作等等"},{"start":129.5,"end":145.16,"text":"哇每一場都4萬人所以怎麼樣讓運動產業能夠有一個發展的一個好的環境我想應該是國發會跟經濟部來同力合作市長你先說一下根本報告那今年那個國科會"},{"start":147.482,"end":170.793,"text":"他會開一個策略會議就針對這個運動這個產業當然也要結合這個運動部啦對 所以我們會配合這個國發會的整個整理規劃那我們經濟部不管是技術士或是產業發展署未來就是也會找一些相關的產業我們來做一些這個AI運用的一些推動好 這個部分國發會呢國發會扮演什麼角色對"},{"start":172.654,"end":196.522,"text":"在運動部裡面它本身就有所謂的產業發展條例那我們也會順著這樣一個產業發展條例我們國發會這邊會提供國發基金那我們也會鼓勵運動部來申請所謂的那個百億基金裡面的運動部有文化部 有數位部 好像沒有運動部其實我們都一直在鼓勵運動部來申請七大產業的百億計畫裡面沒有這個運動產業"},{"start":200.003,"end":224.993,"text":"我們希望他趕快來申請那你要編預算啊有有有我們那個其實都有在規劃當中啊現在就是說持續的在跟那個運動部那邊在商討就是說他們怎麼樣把這個計畫送過來這樣子職棒已經站穩腳步了職單也開始有明顯成長現在還有職業排球還有羽球啊這些但是以後有足球"},{"start":226.4,"end":249.945,"text":"日本以前沒有人去看職業足球現在職業足球進場人數比職棒還多那是要有策略去引導國家來協助會會會謝謝那繼續請教一下何市長這個扣建扣建被稱為是工業之謎那扣建目前遇到的困境包括國際市場需求的大崩潰這存在嗎"},{"start":251.545,"end":279.912,"text":"是在美國市場那加上中國的地價競爭就會陷入平庸化的陷阱還有生本增加 勞動力增加勞動力成本增加減碳的壓力等等那要怎麼讓這個台灣的螺絲擴建能夠維持國際的競爭力啊一定要拿出這個好的策略我覺得應該有一個怎麼樣協助擴建產業轉型升級你要有一個政策的白皮書用這白皮書來做個引導提出具體的解方啦"},{"start":280.848,"end":308.078,"text":"比如說你所有的扣件所有的國內公共城所有的國內的這些不要說公家的啦或者是民間的這些需要扣件的都用國產的扣件然後你要怎麼樣用AI高質化的轉型把這個螺絲扣件朝向高質化比如說航太啦AI啦半導體相關的這個螺絲不要停留在這個比較傳統的低階螺絲"},{"start":311.553,"end":315.702,"text":"我發現如果用國防相關的螺絲可以得到關稅減免"},{"start":318.041,"end":346.8,"text":"是這樣子是沒錯現在我們跟或是太空等等我們跟美方這邊已經也達成一個協議就是說針對汽車零組件的部分已經可以有15%的優惠的稅率那航空零組件的部分這個關稅的稅率也可以豁免就是特殊螺絲你要把政策引導團把這些相關螺絲導向這個關稅可以減免的那些品項是不要大家一窩蜂還是停留在比較低階的螺絲"},{"start":348.101,"end":370.38,"text":"是我們現在輔導方向也是這樣另外這個能源的問題那你們像有三個機制比如說你要提前領貨提前領貨然後另外就是說要請這個同業調貨同業調貨同業就是跟日本函股那第三個是市場買現貨這三個你們應用方案目前執行情況怎麼樣"},{"start":374.731,"end":395.359,"text":"目前應該都有朝向的一個方向所以包括像我們 朝向有沒有具體的做提前掉貨掉多少貨到五月份的這個天然氣的部分都已經掉足了那六月份已經有七成的這個船隻都已經掉起來半年之內沒有斷氣的危機吧不會不會一年之內呢"},{"start":396.319,"end":419.367,"text":"對,我們一年之內也不會有段期,因為中油其實它每天...你要保證半年之內不會有任何段期的可能性?當然,我們是因為有一個法定存量在,那我們不可能是...你這三個因應方案如果確實執行的話,我還比較有信心,我就怕你提出這方案,沒有辦法去執行,包括提前調貨,包括你要跟日本、韓國相互支援,這個做得到嗎?"},{"start":420.147,"end":439.058,"text":"對 我們現在就是都在市場上就是只要有貨我們大概就是不管是現貨或是這個跟同業家我們都我要看出數據跟刺激的好我要看出你們這三大因應方案這一個月來你們執行狀況怎麼樣你會後再給我一個書面資料好的謝謝好 謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"168099","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168099","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cb9c80d603e3b988ae62ad2ff7c6948154047e563c2ae16094cf22a73b69dd6195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"何欣純","委員發言時間":"10:20:55 - 10:33:16","影片長度":"00:12:21","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:20:55+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:33:16+08:00","duration":741,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.03909375,"end":5.076593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.262218750000001,"end":5.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.98784375,"end":7.000343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.27034375,"end":8.282843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.46346875,"end":37.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.767218750000001,"end":14.340968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.09159375,"end":17.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.67721875,"end":22.829093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.84596875,"end":22.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.18221875,"end":31.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.134718750000005,"end":60.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.70284375,"end":48.158468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.28471875,"end":50.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.62909375,"end":62.282843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.687843750000006,"end":64.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.79721875,"end":69.92721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.18034375,"end":71.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.24784375,"end":72.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.86346875000001,"end":81.31784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.55409375,"end":84.47346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.96284375,"end":86.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.19471875,"end":87.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.69659375,"end":106.78221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.90034375,"end":107.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.84534375000001,"end":133.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.01846875,"end":190.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.15721875,"end":195.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.88221875000002,"end":197.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.46409375000002,"end":297.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.31784375,"end":322.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.96784375000004,"end":323.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.19971875000005,"end":350.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.38534375,"end":354.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.59159375,"end":358.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.38846875,"end":395.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.16346875000005,"end":394.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.22659375,"end":403.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.18409375000005,"end":397.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.96784375000004,"end":432.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.48659375000005,"end":432.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.92534375,"end":434.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.46096875,"end":455.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.43659375000004,"end":455.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.48721875,"end":455.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.72346875000005,"end":485.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.75721875000005,"end":455.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.69346875,"end":508.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.79534375000003,"end":544.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.19471875,"end":567.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.6384687500001,"end":573.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.1015937500001,"end":577.7803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.5903437500001,"end":587.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.65596875,"end":590.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.29721875,"end":594.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.5203437499999,"end":597.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.04721875,"end":610.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.31534375,"end":626.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.7390937499999,"end":632.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.24846875,"end":634.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":636.04971875,"end":637.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.87221875,"end":639.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.28534375,"end":646.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.58784375,"end":649.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.97159375,"end":652.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.09346875,"end":653.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.1272187500001,"end":653.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.20721875,"end":654.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.0847187500001,"end":657.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.6159687500001,"end":664.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":665.9353437500001,"end":686.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":686.7590937500001,"end":687.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":688.19346875,"end":689.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.20159375,"end":703.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.59221875,"end":703.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":703.4484687500001,"end":704.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":705.1865937500002,"end":706.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":706.46909375,"end":710.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":710.9072187500001,"end":714.1640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.61971875,"end":717.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":717.1340937500001,"end":721.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.28096875,"end":723.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.96846875,"end":724.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":724.08659375,"end":724.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":724.22159375,"end":730.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.14034375,"end":731.3428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.5790937500001,"end":739.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":736.28721875,"end":737.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":739.4765937500001,"end":741.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":740.96159375,"end":741.82221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.102,"end":2.283,"text":"我們有請陳部長"},{"start":13.619,"end":35.595,"text":"部長我們都是台中隊所以你來自台中那我一向也以台中的交通建設以及問題為主來拜託跟要求您那我想這個交通的問題一定是中央地方大家一起合作吧才能夠讓一個城市不管在交通安全或者是交通建設裡面才能夠有"},{"start":38.837,"end":63.428,"text":"顯著的進步 顯著的進步需要花很大的力氣也必須奠基在一個準確的一個數據上所以接下來我想請教一下部長我們官方有說之前公布的台中的交通死傷人數居高不下那這個數據到底是怎麼來的"},{"start":64.81,"end":80.421,"text":"部長您有知道我們交通部的官方數據都是怎麼來的按照我的理解你先說向委員報告這個官方的數據其實是不只是交通部也有地方政府也有警方各方面的數據綜合起來的"},{"start":81.698,"end":106.146,"text":"所以我們對於這個所謂的交通部公佈全國各縣市包括六都各種死傷的人數其中交通部當然是公佈交通事故交通相關的死傷人數那這個來自警方來自各地方政府來自交通部自己本身有的數據對不對對沒錯"},{"start":107.887,"end":133.468,"text":"好 那這個時候我就要問了喔如果其中有部分的這個數據來自於各地方政府以及警方的話那盧市長說對於交通部公布台中的交通死傷人數居高不下的這件事盧市長說這個叫做數據失真那我們交通部對於這四個字如何反映"},{"start":134.328,"end":162.167,"text":"報告委員第一我認為數據失不失真這個我們交通部絕對有把握數據並沒有失真那如果盧市長覺得有其他的縣市誤報或者是謊報那請他提出哪一個縣市我們一定會去查明這是必然的那第二其實交通死傷的數據不需要去跟其他縣市來相比跟自己相比如果我們的交通的狀況是變得劣化那就要趕快去檢討"},{"start":163.207,"end":190.775,"text":"趕快去檢討那如果變得好我們要找出好的原因持續把它做下去那我看到台中市的這個回答其實我身為台中市民我是擔心的面對整個數據劣化或者說交通的安全狀況劣化之後如果政府的作為是說數據不夠真實是因為我們太過誠實我覺得這個我作為市民我不太能接受我只希望作為市民我只希望交通變得更安全"},{"start":191.295,"end":208.516,"text":"是 你看喔 這個台中市政府還很認真的直接發文來告訴交通部還有各單位說我們第三點 戲就有六案的死亡案情都跟交通事故沒有關聯喔"},{"start":209.657,"end":227.978,"text":"是因為什麼死亡前30日很認真的解釋說曾經發生交通事故所以列入我就覺得怎麼這麼用力而且認真的還直接正式發文呢來說我們的這個交通部公布的官方的數據是失真是可能不夠精準"},{"start":229.94,"end":235.082,"text":"這個我是很納悶啦第一個納悶因為呢如果數據失真是直接用發公文來要求交通部澄清那也做了很多說明有時候我覺得越說明越會失焦啦那也許這個就是盧市長他想要的目的啦不然呢我們一般身為行政首長我看到的這個數字就如同部長您說的好吧我也不要跟各縣市比"},{"start":259.389,"end":286.455,"text":"我跟我自己比我今年被公布的數據跟去年公布的數據到底是如何發展那如果是往這個居高不下發展越來越高我當然就要自我檢討看要如何改善啊如果有降低我可以跟所有的市民說我的努力所以呢我們的交通死亡事故呢是降低當中而且呢我們希望能夠的持續的降低能夠讓"},{"start":287.475,"end":315.402,"text":"台中這個城市越來越安全論述應該是這樣子才對吧那不是咧 我們的盧市長說因為呢 我台中最誠實申報這個你看喔 這很矛盾的一件事喔他說他誠實申報 但是他又發公文跟你講說雖然我提供這個數據啊 是我誠實申報的數據但是呢 這個呢 其中有六案呢其實跟交通事故沒有關係我倒想要請盧市長回去問看看 那當時候他"},{"start":316.462,"end":318.024,"text":"提出的申報最誠實的數據是誰來提供給交通部的 對不對"},{"start":324.649,"end":350.367,"text":"數據也是地方政府提供的啊也是他們自己誠實申報啊那現在重整起來看到這個台中的交通死傷人數居高不下結果呢反而是怪數據失真那還說到其他縣市其他城市誤報不報錯報或言報所以讓他覺得不公平啦齁這個其他縣市有"},{"start":352.249,"end":377.672,"text":"誤報、不報、錯報或言報這樣子的情況嗎我們交通部有沒有去問其他縣市報告委員其實全國都是一致性的標準那我們詢問的時間也都是一致性的所以我還是要強調就是說跟自己比不用跟其他縣市來相比跟自己比我們希望交通越來越安全死傷的數字可以在每個都市都能夠跟自己比的狀況底下越來越下降"},{"start":378.172,"end":402.871,"text":"那裡面有提到以30日的事故的問題其實我們交通部也有做另外一項的精進那過去A30確實很多縣市有在反映但我們現在A1跟A30都會來提供所以兩邊的數據都可以提供給社會來看但重點是要跟自己比要有進步要有進步要更安全嘛那所以我以公車事故為例我之前也提過這個問題台中死傷六度最高"},{"start":404.245,"end":431.806,"text":"這個就是要自己要檢討嘛為什麼我們以公車事故剛剛是交通事故整體的一個比例現在呢以公車大型車這個事故為例公車事故台中的時商也是六都最高啊數字是會說話的而且呢這些數字我想也不是只有台中市自己提供啊六都台北新北桃園台南高雄大家都有提供出來的數字啊這是公開透明的啊對不對部長是"},{"start":433.107,"end":454.669,"text":"是嘛那像這種情形我就覺得台中市政府應該要告訴自己我要怎麼痛定思痛要來反省要來檢討要來做得更好做得更安全才對不是嗎好接下來我就要跟你講我也希望不是只有台中市政府自己努力啦我們交通部中央可以協助的部分我也覺得要拜託部長啊是"},{"start":456.371,"end":484.45,"text":"找出我們預言所曾經呢以台中市的水南經貿園區跟台灣大道做一個實作的場域做了一個智慧交通的數位神經中樞的一個系統開發跟驗證實作那呢112年呢就做好了而且也提出對台中交通的一個改善建議那我只是希望說中央我們不是只有研究計畫"},{"start":486.511,"end":514.102,"text":"我們如何實質的透過你們講的5G、AIoT、AI、大數據、智慧控制系統的驗證等等這些要能夠落地要能夠大量的應用在我們的城市當中解決交通問題讓所有人車道各項措施能夠落實到位改善讓整個交通環境是安全的"},{"start":514.542,"end":534.033,"text":"那部長我們對於這樣子的一個研究計畫我請交通部也請部長您承諾是不是可以再多給資源讓台中讓各個地方政府能夠真的有一套屬於自己的智慧交通的數位神經中樞我們台"},{"start":534.793,"end":554.41,"text":"曾經有人說過啦去參觀智慧城市展的時候說台北是AI的大腦台中可以做AI的身體我是認為我們台中不是只有做AI打造身體之用而已台中也該屬於有自己的AI大腦台中自己的城市"},{"start":555.01,"end":577.147,"text":"如何將AI真正應用在整座城市裡面各個層面這個就是我們台中是有底氣也是做得到的但是我也希望交通部中央可以來支持部長可以嗎好 報告委員台中市政府願意做這方面的改善跟精進交通部一定全力來支持好 那我想知道是運營所在這裡"},{"start":578.832,"end":587.617,"text":"對於你一一二年就已經提出來對台中交通的一個改善的建議你看到目前為止台中市的各項改善有落實執行嗎來請說你的意見專業意見"},{"start":594.597,"end":619.483,"text":"是跟委員報告事實上透過我們在台灣大道還有水南經貿園區確實在委員剛所說的實證的結果我們透過這樣的數位神經中樞然後去偵測預測的結果我們在擁捨事件的前30分鐘就可以知道了所以台中市政府交通局非常清楚因此他也在那個台灣大道跟水南經貿園區"},{"start":620.703,"end":634.226,"text":"然後去在30分鐘前然後下到他的所有的耗資的實質計畫裡面去可是你知道會展中心就在水南經貿園區會展中心呢 上個禮拜的工具機展整個塞爆整個塞爆停車嚴重不足然後呢 預警 你講的什麼預警系統完全沒有發揮功能 為什麼塞爆"},{"start":649.133,"end":664.572,"text":"報告委員預警是預警但是預警之後的作為才是重點對啦部長我要的其實就是這一句話啦那我們中央拜託中央我們也來支持也來幫忙台中市政府好了啦如果他們自己不會做"},{"start":666.084,"end":684.894,"text":"對不對我們都給了他改善也給了錢然後也給了資源那那還是一樣的塞爆還是一樣的沒有改善其實重點就是在台中市政府地方政府自己到底有沒有真正的作為跟落實改善嘛對不對那我們要有這個智慧交通的一個這個"},{"start":686.855,"end":703.007,"text":"智慧控制系統智慧交通不是只有口號是要落實要應用要真正發揮功能這個部分我會持續跟交通部要求希望能夠支持我們台中市好不好部長我們會協助台中市沒問題"},{"start":703.507,"end":730.157,"text":"好 最後一個就只有一個地方建設這個請部長能夠積極有效率的加快腳步台63線銜接國道3號的一個系統高價化的一個案子這對我南台中部的入網是一個非常重要的最後一塊拼圖部長 現在你們報行政院行政院轉國發會 國發會又已經喊轉交通部了"},{"start":731.755,"end":740.901,"text":"向委員報告目前我們又把修正意見做好了又回到行政院了我相信可行性研究可以很快的完成好那再拜託了好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168123","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168123","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cf76087512a2d65bd331a35e1dda586aeafe627a357cd2d7fa1134436d75394885ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林岱樺","委員發言時間":"10:56:20 - 11:02:55","影片長度":"00:06:35","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「能源轉型政策下我國產業發展布局，及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就「AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及扶助政策規劃與執行情形」進行報告，並備質詢。【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:56:20+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:02:55+08:00","duration":395,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.2034687500000003,"end":4.6715937499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.127218750000001,"end":5.886593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.290968750000001,"end":10.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.94471875,"end":12.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.73784375,"end":59.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.274718750000005,"end":61.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.181593750000005,"end":63.227843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.430343750000006,"end":69.69096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.34909375000001,"end":71.59784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.95221875,"end":72.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.63971875,"end":74.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.97284375000001,"end":82.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.27971875,"end":85.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.24534375,"end":92.65784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.56909375000001,"end":94.98659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.98659375000001,"end":117.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.21096875,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.15534375000001,"end":128.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.65221875,"end":151.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.27721875,"end":164.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.33846875,"end":234.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.88034375,"end":241.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.65971875000002,"end":259.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.15909375,"end":358.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.41034375000004,"end":272.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.62846875,"end":280.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.79909375,"end":323.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.88034375,"end":343.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.18784375,"end":346.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.21596875,"end":355.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.55721875,"end":359.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.41784375000003,"end":370.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.72159375,"end":359.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.82159375000003,"end":367.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.93971875,"end":368.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.04471875,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.14534375000005,"end":378.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.89159375,"end":391.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.57471875000005,"end":384.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.74721875,"end":385.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.04159375,"end":394.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.88471875000005,"end":395.96909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.231,"end":4.291,"text":"有請次長經濟部何次長"},{"start":13.174,"end":28.5,"text":"市長在我正式執行之前我先要對您所督導的一個業務我表達我的不滿就是有關特定工廠的部分在部長製作業務報告的時候我也提出質詢所以我這邊希望你們允諾能夠從現在開始"},{"start":31.101,"end":56.286,"text":"到119年3月以前能夠啟動所謂的忠誠計畫我列為忠誠是因為從我們法108年通過之後到現在已經執行6年了成效如何XXX 三個字今天在700家的在已經拿到特登的部分進入到土地變更有7000家 幾千家提出申請700家 幾家通過 7家"},{"start":60.627,"end":67.535,"text":"哇 777 真好 差勁啊然後再來你包括你列管的表面上就說4萬家還在納管輔導的幾家通過 千家"},{"start":73.706,"end":91.437,"text":"差所以這樣的績效表示你的法的一個理想性跟你實質落實是不夠的嘛所以次長我知道你很認真那也事實上也希望能把這件事做好那所以我在這邊就請你提出一個忠誠計畫可以嗎"},{"start":94.058,"end":121.776,"text":"這我們來研議啦你們研議那這裡面當然包括有一些這個我關心的一些這個案件我等一下我就公文給你那再來呢就是針對水利署的部分雖然不是你督導但是我認為無自來水地區裡面的偏鄉我認為太的標準太對人民太不利了"},{"start":122.516,"end":151.559,"text":"我認為越偏鄉你政府負擔的部分應該要越多人民應該越少那比如說我現在關心的六龜區寶萊里的舒羅婆地區它是在寶萊裡面寶萊裡面更進去了裡面有園民區那園民區你知道多棒嗎它的無自來水可以政府補助它一戶到100萬我的這種漢人同樣那塊地我補助最高80萬我排進去還不一定排得到"},{"start":152.339,"end":178.94,"text":"排進去還要多少大概一戶三四十萬的那樣的評比才可以排進去耶那偏鄉永遠弱勢嘛我五自來對軍永遠都是用捲一自來水捲一自來水就是髒水啦我老實講啦所以這部分針對這兩個議題我就是請您關心好針對這個九千三百萬家的製造業我在這邊要替他們發聲我特別指的是製造業他們在政府的政策之下"},{"start":179.88,"end":185.683,"text":"到底是轉型的孤兒還是說你們現在的政策是救命服務還是稻草呢好我這邊講他們的辛苦在哪裡九萬三千家的製造業正面對中美對等關係5%的懸崖你們的我就舉這個例子產業升級創新平台條例你看右邊的數字多慘你們合併的你們有兩這個從111年的60件合併的"},{"start":209.474,"end":233.6,"text":"到113年3年後7件再更慘好114年這個去年核定38件31件核定在這邊38件你到目前為止2025年的4月我這邊是2月的資料7件到底9萬多家的這樣的製造業在等救命前你們一年只救31家38家"},{"start":235.06,"end":258.801,"text":"那包括這樣的杯水車經根本沒有辦法讓基層製造業自生自滅好我簡單講你們的方案有兩個壟斷第一個縱北侵南 你看你的TIIP創新條例北部這五年來你核定幾家 119家南部幾家 35家這叫做你們支持中小企業 支持中南部 支持製造業嗎"},{"start":260.262,"end":263.864,"text":"光是TIIP這樣的創新比賽我的南部只有你北部的29%好這兩個壟斷第一個右邊這個圖這個廠商都是你們提供的除了南北的壟斷北部的壟斷以及獨厚大企業前20家一看合作鴻海偽創獨拿了3000萬到6000萬"},{"start":283.317,"end":304.7,"text":"但是對於我中南部尤其是大康先驚報我南高雄只要廠商需要的AI良率的提升降低成本降低人力你們到底支持了什麼把補助放在30萬的資通訊產業那400萬人的傳統製造業又如何呢我這邊具體要求四項第一個建立南部專項的保障"},{"start":305.44,"end":333.056,"text":"第二個建立基礎製造業的智慧化的核電列別第三個落實大廠帶動供應鏈第四個一個月能夠提供報告從現在開始115年的所有的南部的計畫40%以上要用在南部製造業專屬的配額第二個製造業只要涉及降低成本降低人力提高良率這三個訴求一律就是合法"},{"start":334.076,"end":358.403,"text":"核准下去而且呢在這個程序上的簡化讓中小企業的製造業核定的建樹增加並得到相對主額的補助大廠帶動這個小廠那再來呢在這邊我要呼籲數位製造結合AI才是競爭力數位升級不是生存錢是生存錢不是奢侈品那個次長回應一下吧"},{"start":360.644,"end":378.356,"text":"我們會跟委員做一個說明那其實我們在460億的那個特別預算裡面其實在南部的這個輔導的比例是有提升的那剛剛委員提到那個產算平台那個部分是因為我們現在把預算用在特別的一些主題式的"},{"start":378.996,"end":394.37,"text":"的這個研發補助所以剛剛委員看到數字下降所以那個主題我們南部都不需要沒有那個比方說有一些可能是因為無人機啊或是這些都是南部可能比較擅長的這種產業區好我們再把書篇其他都沒有重視中南部重視製造業吧謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168122","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168122","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cbf5e64bb9fa44f70811c6ac3ddeb80e04047e563c2ae160915ecab491915b16c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"10:46:29 - 10:57:52","影片長度":"00:11:23","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林沛祥等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林德福等31人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員涂權吉等23人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員許宇甄等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員黃健豪等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員羅智強等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員游顥等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員賴士葆等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員羅明才等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法繼承編施行法增訂第十二條條文草案」案。\n【4月1日及2日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:46:29+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:57:52+08:00","duration":683,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-5-36-5"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.8572187499999995,"end":8.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.181593750000001,"end":9.109718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.34596875,"end":10.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.425968750000003,"end":11.185343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.961593750000002,"end":15.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.977843750000002,"end":18.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.40784375,"end":20.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.820968750000002,"end":30.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.92909375,"end":33.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.118468750000005,"end":35.603468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.227843750000005,"end":37.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.94909375,"end":44.564093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.93534375,"end":68.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.23534375,"end":70.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.24346875,"end":76.84596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.01471875,"end":98.34471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.46284375,"end":105.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.70221875,"end":120.68721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.97409375000001,"end":131.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.99346875,"end":133.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.91721875000002,"end":135.23346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.95909375000002,"end":142.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.41784375,"end":145.30784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.98284375,"end":151.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.80471875,"end":157.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.44096875,"end":159.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.54596875000001,"end":167.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.94971875000002,"end":172.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.35846875000001,"end":173.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.94034375,"end":189.99284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.21221875,"end":196.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.65846875000003,"end":197.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.32909375,"end":199.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.38784375,"end":200.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.58596875,"end":202.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.07096875000002,"end":203.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.23534375000003,"end":208.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.07846875,"end":210.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.85034375,"end":212.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.07784375,"end":215.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.65971875000002,"end":216.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.68909375,"end":219.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.81096875,"end":223.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.20284375000003,"end":227.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.43409375000002,"end":229.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.00346875000002,"end":231.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.94409375,"end":237.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.31034375000002,"end":237.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.81659375,"end":239.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.26346875000002,"end":241.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.78221875000003,"end":243.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.90409375000002,"end":245.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.59596875000003,"end":248.51534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.05534375000002,"end":253.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.49346875,"end":258.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.42096875000004,"end":259.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.05784375,"end":260.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.68221875,"end":265.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.21721875000003,"end":269.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.16596875,"end":271.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.56221875,"end":277.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.52346875,"end":285.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.43784375,"end":286.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.78346875,"end":288.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.20096875,"end":297.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.38096875,"end":300.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.31721875,"end":301.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.41409375,"end":317.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.23034375000003,"end":322.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.19159375000004,"end":322.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.17034375000003,"end":324.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.28409375,"end":325.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.41034375000004,"end":333.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.80159375,"end":335.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.75909375000003,"end":345.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.20471875000004,"end":347.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.55471875,"end":348.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.00596875,"end":349.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.08596875,"end":359.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.19409375000004,"end":361.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.40909375,"end":374.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.17909375000005,"end":379.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.56221875,"end":382.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.68846875,"end":385.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.11409375000005,"end":389.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.28221875,"end":394.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.69909375000003,"end":397.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.94346875,"end":399.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.27221875000004,"end":403.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.63034375,"end":405.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.12784375,"end":412.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.58659375,"end":413.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.49784375,"end":422.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.53034375000004,"end":424.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.04471875,"end":433.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.87034375,"end":435.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.76034375,"end":436.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.20721875000004,"end":441.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.81846875,"end":446.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.96534375000005,"end":447.74159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.07909375,"end":449.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.47971875,"end":457.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.23784375,"end":460.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.60034375000004,"end":470.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.06284375,"end":474.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.48846875000004,"end":479.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.00221875000005,"end":482.23409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.79096875000005,"end":483.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.87096875000003,"end":535.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.77846875,"end":535.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.81221875,"end":542.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.8290937500001,"end":536.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.22034375,"end":549.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.73409375,"end":551.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.52284375,"end":564.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.05659375,"end":577.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.54409375,"end":581.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.37471875,"end":600.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.89909375,"end":602.5022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.97471875,"end":611.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.9015937500001,"end":614.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.8715937500001,"end":617.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.34784375,"end":622.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.9209687499999,"end":625.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.4184687500001,"end":626.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.5278437500001,"end":628.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.43909375,"end":629.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.10971875,"end":633.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.3328437499999,"end":638.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.3828437500001,"end":640.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.69471875,"end":644.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.0447187500001,"end":641.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.58846875,"end":644.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.6728437500001,"end":644.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.7065937500001,"end":647.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.74034375,"end":646.0734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.3178437500001,"end":667.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.1459687500001,"end":670.4072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.9640937500001,"end":683.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.30409375,"end":683.72159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.926,"end":10.973,"text":"謝謝 請法務部黃柏信次長好 請次長還有我們中廳長嗎我看也只是次長你而已次長 其實這個問題這個大家可以"},{"start":20.868,"end":37.129,"text":"平心靜氣把整個法制讓它更完備了那我想針對這整個廢除兄弟姊妹特留份這樣的一個議題社會上討論也非常熱烈那今天翁小玲招委排這樣的一個"},{"start":38.235,"end":66.776,"text":"一個議程啊我也表達非常的一個欽佩啦那其實在不同政黨之間啊差異其實不大大家在等的就是說那你們的版本什麼時候會出來涉及到啊這整個重大制度的一個變革啊總不可能行政部門這邊一個國家沒有你們的角色這也好奇怪你像譬如說這個議題大家都在講的嘛就是說你到底一個兄弟姊妹之間的特留分你要把它廢除的話就是"},{"start":67.717,"end":82.471,"text":"在講的問題就只有一個嘛就是說這個被繼承人我生前我賺了很多錢累積下很多的一個財產我是不是可以完全的自由來處分就是在講這個問題而已嘛結果變成他被特留份給限制住了尤其社會只要碰到說這個"},{"start":83.752,"end":104.857,"text":"常常我這個被繼承人我財產要自由處分的時候跑出毫無貢獻的或者沒有往來的這些兄弟姊妹出來了以後大家會覺得說哎喲阿凱真的應該照顧被繼承人在還沒有死亡之前真正照顧的是他或者說他心有所屬要遺產給也是他要跑出這些兄弟姊妹出來"},{"start":105.757,"end":134.659,"text":"也許大家會覺得說尊重當事人財產所有權人這些被繼承財產怎麼樣去做處分的問題可是本席倒也有一個想法啦我今天也看了司法院的一些報告裡面我也看到說你像譬如說我們兄弟姊妹在這個繼承的順序裡面第三順位嘛你第三順位像譬如說我們要去把它做刪除的話那祖父母的部分他又是第四順位"},{"start":136.02,"end":158.655,"text":"第三順位你把它刪除,第四順位你把它留著這個好像在法理上,市長你會不會覺得有點奇怪我個人都覺得有點奇怪那剛很多委員也提到說,像日本仿造其他國家特別貢獻的部分甚至還配偶居住權的部分"},{"start":160.592,"end":172.486,"text":"我昨天跟我辦公室專門在討論這個問題那個問題越衍生越來越大真的是只有如果真正要修法真的只有這一條而已嗎你說1138"},{"start":175.117,"end":197.49,"text":"繼承的部分順序的部分你不需要重新再考量嗎一一四四的部分你都不要去重新考量嗎或者配偶的順序的部分你是不是也要適當的去做一個安排那這個啊我相信這個議題喔這個議題社會上現在看到的只是說以現在的法制限制了被繼承人處分財產的自由的一個意志但我總覺得說這個議題最後啊"},{"start":201.616,"end":227.168,"text":"可能會通過但是呢 行政部門 我覺得黃市長應該是你的立法的方向還有法務部真正的一個態度你最後的版本是怎麼樣或者說有沒有更周延的設計我擔心的是這個啦 你如果有應該要快點揭出來然後呢 不過差這幾個月啦我們大家差不多都有共識啦"},{"start":228.642,"end":238.996,"text":"小孩有這個呼聲那確實有的國家也認為根本就沒有兄弟姊妹的那個特留分的規定啊我們去把它刪除掉也沒有什麼啦小孩開始有那邊啦嘛我如果說那一代齁差不多再起立才會都是大家庭啦"},{"start":245.943,"end":270.916,"text":"這就變成說 以前的農業社會本來就是大家庭啊那像這個19年修的 在中國大陸那邊修的民法當初的社會背景 社會環境包括農業社會嘛 都被大家做得出來你看現在有好多技師工業的分散在各地的財產為什麼當初會有這樣那就是要娶大家嘛 要娶大家啊 以前大家庭 沒有人在搬家"},{"start":272.622,"end":300.611,"text":"我的爺爺那一代 我爺爺到最後他不曉得幾歲他才跟我的叔公 伯公 爺公 伯公那些都是大家庭 到最後大家分居了大家分一塊給他做大家去分居要怎麼說 國語叫什麼那也不是分居 分居好像是配偶的意思可是當年的分居就是一個大家庭分出去了 你去獨立了"},{"start":302.452,"end":322.528,"text":"那以前大家彼此會互相照顧 變成小家庭了那現在社會又改變了 改變到最後連子女都不跟父母親住了那當然累積到最後的一個財產 跟過去的社會裡面說唉呦 你可能生前大家會兄弟姊妹要互相照顧連這個兄弟姊妹死掉以後"},{"start":326.972,"end":345.649,"text":"弟弟會照顧哥哥或者哥哥照顧弟弟有一方死亡以後還輪流要掃掃去照顧那個家庭過去的社會是如此可是現在就突然這樣的一個變革以後兄弟姐妹的感情當然跟以前又不太一樣了啦所以這個變革是可以接受但是啊"},{"start":346.269,"end":359.47,"text":"我都聽起來我都淡淡啦確實有其他委員提到的特殊貢獻的部分那確實那個有道理啊我也認為那個有道理啊可是現行法制就沒有這個東西啊所以把它放進來又是對的"},{"start":361.665,"end":384.994,"text":"這個本席都可以表達贊同啊像譬如說大家要學我們來學日本那個配偶的居住權的部分留給他看起來又是合理啊可是簽一法又動全身啊你那個又不是那個具備又除非你把它我們把它定性成他具備有優先權啊否則你給他你給他也沒有用啊只要有兩個兄弟姊妹在的你說要有配偶有那個居住權"},{"start":390.345,"end":412.531,"text":"只要兄弟姊妹 他是占大多數 我跟他說 我要賣給別人就好因為他是共同共有啊我共有人 我又超過一半啊我們兩個是兄弟姊妹 我跟翁偉我們兩個是兄妹就是我們兩個說 不然按照居住權的設計的話是要給媽媽住的 給配偶住的我們兩個就把它給賣掉啦看你要不要買啊 啊你不買"},{"start":414.554,"end":436.872,"text":"你不買我們就真的把它給賣掉啦所以我倒認為這一部法制的一個變革牽一法而動全身特殊貢獻的部分本席也贊同居住權我也贊同你說刪除掉的人社會也有這樣的一個呼聲因為環境改變了可是我們不可能真的只有修一個條文所以這個時候就期待喔法務部你們真的重大變革的時候你們不能缺席啊"},{"start":441.894,"end":457.387,"text":"我從這個議題在司法法治委員在討論的時候民進黨都開放的太多了我看其他政黨也開放我認為法務部你也是開放啊司法院也是開放啊可是你們不能開放到最後沒有角色啊"},{"start":458.294,"end":479.649,"text":"所以我覺得可惜的地方 次長你簡單給我回應一下涉及到重大的一個變革到底是完全尊重被繼承人他自己對他財產的處分權或者說你制度要去修改的時候你其他的配套要不要上來像我剛提到的部分你既然兄弟姊妹是第三順位你要把它刪除掉那第四順位的那更不用講啦"},{"start":481.052,"end":504.72,"text":"所以麻煩你回應跟委員報告我們絕對支持也贊同剛剛委員講的就是說制度的設計他一定要有相關的配套那特留份的這個特留份的制度他有他的歷史因素到目前為止大多數的委員的贊成這個刪除兄弟園特留份的這個立法架構基本上這個架構本方向我們是贊成的"},{"start":504.96,"end":534.86,"text":"只是在架構底下我們剛剛提到要有配套如同委員剛剛有提到的這個貢獻份還有包括配偶的居住權像日本他甚至配偶居住權他有優先權在電子條件他可是可以有優先權的設計這個台灣是沒有的所以我是贊成所以本部一直立場是說在這個刪除特留兄弟姐妹特留份的架構底下要有B法條C法條或更外圍的配套來支撐刪除後的產生的社會的一些一些權益的互相的一個平衡"},{"start":536.001,"end":562.378,"text":"所以我也在這邊我也跟召委來做一個建議你看我們當召委也很辛苦大家提案每一個人的案子提出來以後今天就算我們去組條他都當事人都未必提案的委員未必會到我們也沒辦法去幫他們做決定然後行政部門又沒有他的一個版本那可是我們在看不管汪召委或者我我們去看德國的法治看日本的法治居住權 貢獻分我們都認為很合理啊大家都在嚇嚇的沒人來講我們兩個天天做冠軍"},{"start":565.24,"end":580.721,"text":"這也好奇怪 所以我一直在講說 一直在追的就是你們的版本真的要趕快出來啦 趕快弄破 好的配套啦既然大家有這個共識要做 行政部門應該 你們也去委託研究啦"},{"start":581.642,"end":602.127,"text":"對不對 委託研究的記錄出來 大家覺得放進去你就提出一個版本 不要大家再來把它給捨棄掉不然 林德福委員一個版本 我也覺得很有道理賴思寶的我也覺得不錯 民進黨的我也覺得不錯那三個版本 你叫我兩個要怎麼算 要不然能把它湊一湊放進去這整個法制又不對"},{"start":603.047,"end":626.571,"text":"所以我建議法務部你們真的要擔當起這樣的一個責任這個是一個制度的一個重大變革立法院會支持但是我們不及這一時啦你給他弄組條規要怎麼組條 也都送出去所有的版本全部都送進去 不然又要用誰的版本沒有你們的版本啊個別委員的都沒有全部放進去那我們都覺得又還不錯"},{"start":627.554,"end":646.946,"text":"那這邊要怎麼處理所以我期待市長你們法務部的版本什麼時候可以出來我剛多次說明就是我在這個會期結束之前我們會進行預告這個會期結束我們就差不多存兩公會時間我們因為還要研修嘛完成之後就預告你們加快啦不然在立法院裡面"},{"start":648.853,"end":656.901,"text":"國會的研究室是很專業沒有錯啦可是最後畢竟是國會議員在審在主條的時候國會議員在審嘛你總是要有一個比較完整的版本給大家來做一個參考這樣大家審理的時候比較不會淡淡啦因為立法委員來自不同的領域"},{"start":668.431,"end":682.687,"text":"並不是每一個人都是法律專家方方面面該去顧及到整個法制面會不會產生酣格或者說應該怎麼樣的一個配套才更合理的您站出來要大家共同成就一件事嘛好不好好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168124","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168124","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cce319386590ce7ecbd67b93b5004dc02afe627a357cd2d7f538125fad269566d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"10:53:40 - 11:06:40","影片長度":"00:13:00","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T10:53:40+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:06:40+08:00","duration":780,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.8153437500000003,"end":4.7897187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.2790937499999995,"end":10.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.09659375,"end":12.552218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.94034375,"end":35.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.83971875,"end":39.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.940343750000004,"end":42.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.11284375,"end":45.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.98159375,"end":49.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.28471875,"end":65.48909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.86034375,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.98034375,"end":83.61284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.56596875000001,"end":87.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.61221875000001,"end":88.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.06346875,"end":92.69159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.18096875,"end":106.98471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.37284375,"end":114.35909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.84846875000001,"end":116.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.76784375000001,"end":120.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.82221875,"end":146.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.82659375,"end":148.31159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.69971875000002,"end":184.44096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.18346875,"end":241.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.93409375000002,"end":289.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.79159375,"end":291.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.51284375,"end":295.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.10284375000003,"end":302.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.57846875,"end":308.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.26971875000004,"end":309.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.24409375000005,"end":319.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.84159375,"end":326.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.36846875000003,"end":324.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.62971875,"end":327.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.03471875,"end":330.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.86971875,"end":330.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.15221875000003,"end":331.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.99596875000003,"end":332.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.19409375000004,"end":339.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.12159375000005,"end":368.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.48409375,"end":341.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.94034375,"end":364.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.42909375000005,"end":372.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.55909375000005,"end":380.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.83221875000004,"end":393.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.99471875,"end":428.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.82034375,"end":446.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.05471875,"end":443.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.20596875,"end":495.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.30784375,"end":503.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.07034375,"end":506.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.88846875,"end":556.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.16909375,"end":520.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.33221875,"end":559.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.0109687500001,"end":583.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.9228437500001,"end":619.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":619.32659375,"end":627.5615937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.73034375,"end":633.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.50159375,"end":637.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.6528437500001,"end":639.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.0659687500001,"end":654.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.1228437500001,"end":665.4965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.47596875,"end":662.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.50971875,"end":662.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.9653437500001,"end":664.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":665.68221875,"end":672.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":763.13534375,"end":766.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":765.0590937500001,"end":765.58221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.83,"end":12.325,"text":"谢谢主席有请郑部长请郑部长备询今天的主题跟高教跟国教都有关系很好"},{"start":13.301,"end":34.713,"text":"大家辛苦那今天我剛剛有聽到林益謹委員也針對轉型正義有提出他的一些觀點那我希望也能夠補強一些我給教育部的建議轉型正義就要從教育下手教育部是主角而不是配角我們除了頒布了行動綱領我們的行動更要具體化"},{"start":36.074,"end":38.196,"text":"轉型正義就在我們每一天的生活裡"},{"start":65.974,"end":83.186,"text":"那吳思瑤跟你一樣啦只是你比我高一級你是已經認列為台獨的頑固分子沒救啦那吳思瑤現在只是台獨的打手幫兇也就是我在幫助你這樣子你會怕嗎?中國對你的跨境鎮壓會怕嗎?"},{"start":87.674,"end":116.592,"text":"我无忧无惧无忧无惧因为您是优雅的台湾人对于坏邻居冠上的名称你会一笑置之而且会更秉持着教育基本法我们培育人才推动爱台湾的爱国教育守护台湾的民主自由有一天如果我也能够荣登跟您榜上列在一起我会觉得更大的光荣我会持续的努力但是从这件事情下一页"},{"start":117.793,"end":119.665,"text":"搭配著現在轉型正義"},{"start":120.865,"end":145.536,"text":"的一個特快車我認為我們教育部就應當借力使力跟上這一股的熱潮搭上這班列車轉型正義是全台灣公民的民主的補課我們需要更多覺醒的賈永傑那教育部是主角不是配角雖然我知道你們剛剛說你只有兩個人力我們來看怎麼做國際是這樣做的"},{"start":148.777,"end":166.048,"text":"德國呢他們用追討回來的不義黨產大概40億來成立了一個評估的委員會他們的做法是設立圖書館展示文物他們支持公司裡的文化事物包括各類的出版跟展覽"},{"start":166.949,"end":184.134,"text":"他們當然也鼓勵非常多的寫作他們也進行國際合作他們更提供學術的補助以及設獎學金你可以想想我們哪裡沒做到所以我說這裡有高教的工作也有國教的工作好 下一頁"},{"start":185.254,"end":200.434,"text":"加拿大他们的转型正义是对原住民族的历史的平反所以不外乎是针对原住民族受破坏的那一些受迫害的那一段的历史真相呢来强化教育他的做法也是给补助"},{"start":201.094,"end":220.296,"text":"然後呢要從課程來進行教學不外乎都是這些做法看看波蘭喔波蘭是更生活化的他們設計非常多生活化的桌遊跟教具然後呢這個國家記憶研究院其實就等同於我們過去現在退場的促轉會一樣"},{"start":221.377,"end":241.026,"text":"会定期提供学校出版品举办教师的研习活动而且来进行受难者的访谈现身说法这更有说服力然后进行全国性的展览我用这些国际例子是让您想一想我们还有哪些可以做更多下一页"},{"start":242.046,"end":268.276,"text":"我在促進轉型正義條例2016修法的時候吳思瑤的版本就是把促轉基金追討回來的不義黨產除了國家原始的用途要用在長照跟社福之外我把它增加可以用在人權教育跟轉型正義相關的文化事務所以我們要爭取這個促轉基金的使用"},{"start":269.036,"end":293.858,"text":"而促轉會退場之後呢教育部就應當跟跨部會一起來進行合作教育部當然是人權教育為主但我們應當跟文化部保存的不義遺址或政治檔案的研究多多合作我都提點到這裡下頁我們的這個馬上要到期的轉型正義的行動剛臨"},{"start":296.155,"end":318.816,"text":"到2026年2023到2026年是第一期請問你們有第二階段嗎跟委員報告有的我們這個朱次長他現在在統合會有第二階段非常好那我希望未來也建議主席我們能夠有轉型正義的專報所以有2.0對不對確定會有是幾年期的呢次長"},{"start":320.882,"end":332.054,"text":"跟委員報告我們是明年開始是4年4年至少116好 那預算呢但是我們用1加4的方式我們今年就會先超過好 那預算也多少足夠嗎"},{"start":333.243,"end":339.786,"text":"原則上我們會再申請促轉基金的協助但是教育部也會允諸我們一些你之後來跟我說一個你們的新的規劃好嗎那我希望您能夠納入我剛剛的一些國際經驗我現在要分享給部長給次長的就是不用怕雖然只有兩個人力我覺得不夠啦還是要擴編啦"},{"start":353.812,"end":380.07,"text":"但是跨部会的下手合作以及跟公司合作其实是一个很好借力使力的方法因为民间非常多这样子的NGO我们可以去合作下一页我提供您几个建议第一个国教端鼓励教案的多元开发融入课程第二个跨部会plus公司协力来提出多元的活动"},{"start":380.931,"end":403.221,"text":"第三結合沉浸式的體驗教育就是現在文化部教育部在做很多文化體驗的課程把它搭配進去而且要注意是現地的教學on-site learning這是國教端我的三個期許而高教端呢我更鼓勵我們現在的大學部分學校有針對轉型正義有通識課程我認為可以鼓勵"},{"start":406.963,"end":427.711,"text":"以及我們可以鼓勵這方面的研究設立獎學金也是一個可以的方向我的這些中整的意見請問朱次長對於通識教育還有設轉學獎學金來鼓勵轉型正義的學術領域的研究可以參採吧"},{"start":429.995,"end":446.248,"text":"跟委員報告委員剛才所提的不管從國際的一個經驗到國教端跟高教端都這個深化這個轉型正義啊都非常具體可行我想我們會把它納入2.0納入2.0的這個轉型正義的一個綱好我最後有三頁很簡單就安你們的心你們可以在現有少少的人力當然我希望擴充人力跟能量好下一頁怎麼做呢"},{"start":457.297,"end":475.335,"text":"這些人權故事車去巡迴校園 吳思瑤也爭取了到北投的學校人權故事的展覽還有舞台劇 這個很好 校園在巡迴人權素養的教具箱有非常多元的教具還有"},{"start":476.056,"end":495.407,"text":"下面这个桌游的开发台湾文学馆做的以上这四个事情其实都是文化部在做文化部的文化馆社在做你们要跟他们搭上线人权叫故事车多来一些学校对不对人权故事行动的舞台剧或是展览多去我们的下乡"},{"start":496.608,"end":520.898,"text":"這些多元的桌遊課程都可以跟這些人權館或文學館來合作這些是不用你們的人甚至不用太多你們的錢搭便車好嗎然後促轉會過去也有非常多的當事人入校的一個分享這些我們都是跨部會可以搭便車的在下一頁"},{"start":521.858,"end":548.143,"text":"這些是現有的課程我們都有各校的文化美感的教學這是融入課程的我建議過去都去很多兩廳院故宮北美館高美館衛武營都很好融入對於人權館或者是不義遺址都是擴充這些選項而已不用花太多錢直接納入就好"},{"start":548.703,"end":574.467,"text":"On-Site Learning是UNESCO定定最有效的遺產教育的方式好最後一個這個也是剛剛講有很多管所其實人權管是我們要擴大合作的單位我過去歷次當然我是這一次在兩年後再回到教育文化委員會這是我2023整理的資料我們讓學生的校外教學前進人權管是"},{"start":574.947,"end":582.264,"text":"逐年遞減的我不知道為什麼這是2023的統計搭上這一股台灣的公民的民主補課"},{"start":584.028,"end":607.28,"text":"其实你不用有这些大家现在都去看自由的花蕊大家都去人权管但是教育部的责任教育部是主角不是配角对于人权管跟不易移植的这些融入校外教学的选择我们真的可以来推广出去我提供的这些建议都是在现在只有两个人力的状况之下马上就可以做的"},{"start":607.76,"end":636.638,"text":"至於如何去擴充Extend 2.0的部分我希望後續還有時間跟大家做更多元的討論但是不要忘了不是只有國教高教有相當大的責任好不好我今天提供給我們台獨頑固分子鄭英耀部長我們就要做更多當我們被中國鎖定我們代表我們做對了很多事我們毫無恐懼所以我們都不可以走了"},{"start":637.708,"end":655.623,"text":"感謝委員的一個指導我想我們都非常的一個具體也是我們很多東西跟我們目前的規劃方向是一樣包含高等教育裡面我們怎麼樣去創新教學計畫裡面就把它融入或者大學的USR我想我們會全面來很好USR是可以擴大的我們後續希望能夠有這樣的專題分享我們來進一步研議USR非常好我倒還沒有納入我們可以來做謝謝"},{"start":665.871,"end":672.442,"text":"谢谢吴思瑶委员的质询请部长会座我们现在休息五分钟谢谢"},{"start":763.232,"end":765.808,"text":"現在我就給它換好了還是有還是有我給它放這裡好了"}]}},{"id":"168156","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168156","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c83d22defc3da676bbd67b93b5004dc02994a069f48f295f3bb2b46c06798901d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"12:23:52 - 12:40:14","影片長度":"00:16:22","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:23:52+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:40:14+08:00","duration":982,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.0178437500000004,"end":4.654718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.992218750000001,"end":6.072218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.207218750000001,"end":7.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.974093750000002,"end":67.81784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.91909375,"end":85.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.95846875000001,"end":137.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.93346875,"end":145.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.13471875000002,"end":156.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":156.88409375,"end":157.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.64346875,"end":171.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.12221875,"end":174.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.70409375,"end":191.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.25659375,"end":179.85096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":180.86346875,"end":182.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.15846875000003,"end":184.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":189.87471875,"end":192.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.57471875000002,"end":193.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":193.11471875,"end":194.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.49846875,"end":252.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.03784375,"end":253.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.15159375000002,"end":275.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.56596875,"end":287.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.27721875000003,"end":306.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.73409375,"end":318.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.90096875,"end":348.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.96846875,"end":346.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.04409375,"end":352.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.92534375,"end":353.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.78596875,"end":354.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.10221875,"end":356.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":354.13596875,"end":354.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.66284375000004,"end":377.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":369.49221875,"end":372.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.74409375000005,"end":389.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.48909375000005,"end":396.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":392.84721875,"end":394.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.05346875000004,"end":396.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.57659375000003,"end":397.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":397.74096875000004,"end":398.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.36096875000004,"end":400.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.06534375,"end":412.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.03409375,"end":415.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.35846875000004,"end":415.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.69596875,"end":417.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.84784375000004,"end":416.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.70409375,"end":417.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.92346875000004,"end":418.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.19346875,"end":426.22596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.64784375000005,"end":443.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.48909375000005,"end":451.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.04471875,"end":460.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.84909375,"end":470.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":471.50159375000004,"end":471.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.21034375000005,"end":472.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":473.93159375000005,"end":476.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.54721875,"end":476.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.56409375000004,"end":477.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.59784375000004,"end":477.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.76221875000005,"end":477.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":477.84659375,"end":487.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.26846875,"end":478.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.20909375,"end":481.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.02659375,"end":494.08034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.99159375000005,"end":498.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":496.78034375000004,"end":500.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.54346875000005,"end":512.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":502.61909375000005,"end":505.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":508.84596875000005,"end":510.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":511.64721875000004,"end":518.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.0478437500001,"end":514.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.41471875,"end":514.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.77284375,"end":518.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.3928437500001,"end":525.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.44346875,"end":521.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":526.49721875,"end":527.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.5603437500001,"end":530.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.39096875,"end":533.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.25971875,"end":539.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":536.62221875,"end":538.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":539.0522187500001,"end":541.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.66784375,"end":541.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.93784375,"end":542.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.33846875,"end":544.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.62096875,"end":554.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.46346875,"end":555.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.16784375,"end":556.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.75409375,"end":572.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.85534375,"end":557.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.49034375,"end":570.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.9709687500001,"end":603.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.7890937500001,"end":606.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.15596875,"end":604.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.69159375,"end":608.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.37909375,"end":609.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.4040937500001,"end":630.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.5847187500001,"end":614.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.41346875,"end":635.9990937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.03284375,"end":645.5672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.00596875,"end":646.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.9678437499999,"end":650.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.96284375,"end":653.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.35909375,"end":655.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.8272187499999,"end":705.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":705.91221875,"end":706.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.31284375,"end":709.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.2490937500002,"end":730.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":731.27534375,"end":739.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":739.40909375,"end":741.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":742.34534375,"end":745.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.9565937500001,"end":746.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.3234687500001,"end":750.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":751.33971875,"end":756.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.97596875,"end":765.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":766.29096875,"end":778.4578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":779.1328437500001,"end":798.8090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":797.9484687500001,"end":798.6572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":798.9778437500001,"end":807.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":799.85534375,"end":800.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":808.34346875,"end":813.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":813.64221875,"end":826.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.0959687500001,"end":835.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":833.16659375,"end":834.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":835.57971875,"end":839.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":840.0178437500001,"end":843.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":843.8315937500001,"end":854.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":847.3078437500001,"end":848.3034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":855.13784375,"end":859.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":860.2847187500001,"end":869.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":869.6840937500001,"end":886.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":886.89659375,"end":888.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":887.04846875,"end":888.7022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":888.71909375,"end":888.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":888.7865937500001,"end":888.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":888.92159375,"end":888.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":888.9722187500001,"end":889.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":889.02284375,"end":889.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":889.32659375,"end":889.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":889.73159375,"end":889.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":889.90034375,"end":894.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":890.40659375,"end":890.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":895.4015937500001,"end":900.8015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":901.0547187500001,"end":908.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":908.27721875,"end":936.0872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":934.6697187500001,"end":935.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":936.00284375,"end":936.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":936.0872187500001,"end":944.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":944.5247187500001,"end":963.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":963.3234687500001,"end":965.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":963.81284375,"end":966.4790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":965.82096875,"end":968.3015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":967.52534375,"end":968.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":968.9765937500001,"end":971.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":971.03534375,"end":976.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":975.7097187500001,"end":977.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":976.94159375,"end":978.9834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":982.54409375,"end":982.7465937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.632,"end":29.899,"text":"主席好 麻煩請教育部長 謝謝好 有請曾部長委員好部長好因為今天大家討論這個教師法其實最終目的我覺得還是要給老師一定的尊重要改善對老師的不友善的環境剛剛大家都談很多現在少事化真的非常嚴重我真是希望教育部可以很正視這個問題因為教育是國家的根本"},{"start":30.199,"end":55.178,"text":"如果連老師都不願意投入這一個工作的話那以後誰來教育學生這其實是雙輸的局面教育部常常講說地方怎麼樣地方怎麼樣但教育部總是教育的最高單位當然希望你多做一些事情包括我們都希望跟你一起來討論看怎麼樣讓教育更好那我昨天總諮詢也跟總太院長跟部長很深入的討論有關於校園安全的問題"},{"start":55.578,"end":74.609,"text":"基本上我覺得校園安全這個議題啊也會影響到老師願不願意留在這個職場的動機就像昨天卓榮泰院長他我也是很感謝他他有肯定我因為想要解決這個校園安全的問題所以呢提了一個安心上學法案針對那些"},{"start":75.189,"end":104.111,"text":"常常戴蝴蝶套上課啊然後那種動不動就拿可能會有疑慮他也可能拿刀刺人的啊或者是拿鋁棒敲人的啊這種背後有乾哥乾姐的這種學生希望能夠由教育部可以設立一個專屬的學校然後由一些教育很有理念的專業團體來設立比如說以人為本然後比如說那個愛的教育正向管教讓原本的學校的師生可以得到喘息好好讀書啦昨天院長他說他有認同我這個大方向"},{"start":104.631,"end":126.233,"text":"不過昨天院長講了一句話在網路上有一些老師也有意見因為院長說如果遇到那些會帶刀上課的學生那老師跟行政人員就要有所處置啊但是他講這句話是完全不了解教學現場因為在現在教學的情況之下如果你說要一般的行政人員跟老師面對這種學生他要怎麼處理他沒有能力處理啊"},{"start":126.84,"end":155.578,"text":"所以教育部要針對這件事情我覺得要提出一個方案出來那我覺得既然院長他肯定我的立法方向那接下來細節部分我們是不是可以真的非常認真我們上次有開過公聽會但部長沒有來啦是不是可以找一個時間跟請部長啊部長可以找一些相關的人我們一起就是不一定要利用這個委員會的時間我們可以很認真來討論一下細節因為他可能牽涉到比較深入的討論不知道部長願意嗎"},{"start":157.844,"end":171.28,"text":"怎麼樣讓學校更友善更安全讓老師教學能夠安心學生學習放心家長也能夠放心小孩子在學校學習我想這個方向我們是一定願意來努力的"},{"start":174.804,"end":179.087,"text":"我是說既然院長有肯定我們的立法方向的話那我們就我們來找一個時間來討論一下那個細節啦因為我們委員會職區時間也不多啦也沒辦法很認真進入細節我都約你啊我們再找個時間來討論因為確實是需要有另外的一個時間重溫討論這個好"},{"start":195.62,"end":222.108,"text":"我來提一下因為我之前我在上個會期我有提到一個事情也是跟老師的待遇跟尊重老師有關的因為我先肯定一下教育部把老師的終點費提高了那這個是肯定當然這第一步我們覺得不夠但是可以再多一點可是至少已經跨出第一步但是因為它反映了一個狀況就是說如果學校的老師他如果不是導師也不是行政人員他也不是終點老師的話其實對這些老師來講"},{"start":224.509,"end":252.089,"text":"教育部現在的做法對他們來說是沒有差的反而是讓他們多付出為什麼呢因為他們如果請假一般老師請假的待課費用是老師自己出嘛那所以他的請的他出的待課費用反而提高所以像一群就是比如說他可能是科人老師在教育部的這一波的待遇的調整他們其實沒有受惠其實是沒有受惠反而多付出這個部長我跟你提過不知道你還記得嗎"},{"start":253.086,"end":272.646,"text":"你記得嗎 記得嗎那當時我是不知道說教育部要怎麼去解決這個問題啦針對我剛剛提到那一群老師 但我有提一個建議我說不然的話是不是可以減老師的終點開始做起因為現在國小是20個終點 國中18個終點 高中16個終點如果讓所有的老師都可以減兩個終點的話他第一個齁"},{"start":275.689,"end":300.764,"text":"因為108課綱關係老師其實負擔也蠻重的那讓他撿終點如果他願意撿終點那他可以多一點時間去備課或去跟學生相處教學之類的第二個部長可能會講說那撿終點的話那其他的課誰要來教如果找得到就可以讓其他人來教那如果找不到的話呢校內因為撿了終點之後假設由原來的校內老師來上這些課的話"},{"start":302.665,"end":324.026,"text":"那這些老師他就可以得到額外的終點費那他如果得到額外的終點費那他等於是這一次教育部調漲的終點費對他來說就有幫助他等於是有點變相加薪那我上個會期提的時候幾個月已經隔很多個月了當時我跟部長講說其實幫你算過了全國大概增加二十幾億啦"},{"start":325.208,"end":340.586,"text":"這個錢真的對教育部來說不是一個大錢可是你至少可以讓老師得到一個基本尊重而且至少讓所有的老師不管他是導師或者是行政人員他都可以在薪資上面有增加一些其實也增加不多但是這就是有增加到嘛"},{"start":342.048,"end":354.399,"text":"那時候我不知道部長你好像是說要研議一下啦有好幾個月了我不知道部長研議的怎麼樣因為他涉及到地方的一個教育前線嘛地方自治的一個前線國民教育沒有部長部長對不起我要跟你溝通一個觀念喔"},{"start":357.731,"end":370.716,"text":"教育雖然說國民教育牽涉到地方但教育部是最高的主管機關我來今天這邊跟你討論如果你認為做這件事情對教育是有幫助那你教育部可以去跟地方去談啊那你開會了嗎我已經講幾個月了嘛那你去找了嗎你找了嗎會議紀錄給我啊"},{"start":377.839,"end":398.075,"text":"這是上個會期跟您說的啊那如果每一次跟你說你提的都是說那地方的事然後沒有任何的動作那請問一下那部長你是在所以教育都跟你無關嘛能推就推嗎這是幾個月前就跟你講了嘛你說這地方的事請問一下教育部有沒有找地方政府來討論過有沒有國教署署長"},{"start":399.397,"end":425.767,"text":"跟委員報告一下剛剛專業委員有問到類似您的問題行政減量的同時把這個一般老師柯恩老師有沒有機會給他加薪這個有列在我們這一次在四月份跟地方政府談的議題裡面我上個 不好意思署長上個會期就講了上個會期就講了然後呢其實教育部你也可以編這個錢嘛你們對於高教我上次就講了嘛高教那時候特別預算送過來就是幾百億"},{"start":426.847,"end":451.289,"text":"就覺得高教 但我覺得我們也都支持高教啊那高教幾百億 你覺得不編這幾百億高教的韌性會有問題那現在大家今天討論的主題就是怎麼面臨掃師化嘛剛剛那麼多委員都有提到我的這個方案還增加二十幾億然後可以讓一般的老師他不兼行政 沒有當導師他也可以透過減終點的方式得到一點加薪"},{"start":452.73,"end":472.501,"text":"這全國大概就是二三十億然後你就是做不到這個地方的事然後幾個月前跟你們講你說那個地方那你也沒有找地方啊這是全國的嘛撿終點難道是台北市的事嗎是新北市的事嗎要撿當然全國一起撿啊這也是可以全國一體試用啊為什麼教育部不願意呢所以委員我問部長"},{"start":473.956,"end":493.765,"text":"沒有 委員到底要剪幾小...兩個終點我剛講了嘛這個跟地方當然 我們還是那你請問一下你去那你去跟他們討論沒那現在剛才署長已經有跟你報告說我們四月已經把...四月 我是上個會期講的你那時候說要研議結果你現在因為我來這邊問了所以你跟我說四月"},{"start":495.051,"end":518.618,"text":"那我沒有問就8月啦我真的沒有問就12月啦公務員報告你不要大聲啦不是大聲跟大聲小聲什麼關係那我跟部長報告你回答問題不要那麼蠻憨我沒有蠻憨你如果說要來站態度的話要站態度大家一起來站啊我也是就事論事我們尊重地方也跟地方協調希望有一個共通的但是你沒有做"},{"start":519.505,"end":530.297,"text":"你到現在為止都沒有做做得比較慢是這樣沒有錯嗎好啦你要來站態度啦我不要大聲啦那你可不可以積極"},{"start":531.462,"end":555.525,"text":"可以啊你可以做一個積極的教育部長嗎你可以做一個面對問題解決問題然後針對教育困境提出方案的部長嗎我是一個非常積極的教育部長喔 是自我感覺良好阿偉我可不可以補充一下因為你那時候提的時候我們是提用12月31號那個方案已經先做了一波現在地方政府要連續12月31號是什麼方案加了那三項加薪"},{"start":557.607,"end":577.948,"text":"我是上個會期提出來因為三項加薪衍生出來的問題就是一般老師他的待課費用增加如果他不是行政職不是導師等於是這波加薪對他沒有幫助但反而是付出更多成本這個是上個會議講不是12月底的方案我們是12月底宣布那個方案所以您提的時候不是因應"},{"start":578.689,"end":603.272,"text":"那個三項加薪三項加薪是在1月份你又在跟我提過說能不能夠也考慮我跟委員回報說這一個因為涉及到地方政府容我在最近一次通盤性的演繹中一起來規劃因為這個要由剛剛委員講的你說的減兩截地方政府在12月他們已經花了大概21億是不是容我在跟地方政府溝通啦好不好什麼時候"},{"start":603.772,"end":629.077,"text":"什麼時候 那我們訂一個日期出來好不好剛剛有講到四月中以前四月中會完成溝通是不是會完成溝通 第一次溝通因為這會涉及到五項方案剛剛跟陳培英委員講到五項其中有含一項 您提到的這一類要不要用減中這一類思考讓老師行政減量但恐怕沒有辦法減但有點實質加薪這些都是我們的規劃可是時序上 跟委員再補充一下"},{"start":629.717,"end":654.923,"text":"剛剛的時序是這個樣子,謝謝四月是不是?四月是不是?好,那到時候我四月再來問再來,我再請教一下因為最近學測開始放榜嘛那我這邊有接到一些學生的抱怨也反映給部長、署長知道因為如果要申請,用學測要申請入學是不是要準備學期歷程檔案?對吧,要準備學期歷程檔案嘛那結果呢"},{"start":656.966,"end":680.341,"text":"學測其實說考得也不錯啦但是可能因為有些學校要入學他有一個門檻嘛比如國文加社會要達到幾分或是哪一科加哪一科要幾分可能有時候就差一分兩分他就沒有辦法去申請他理想的學校但是他的學習歷程檔案已經做一大堆所以學生在抱怨那為什麼既然我沒有資格沒有機會去申請這些學校為什麼要做這些學習歷程檔案呢"},{"start":681.101,"end":705.201,"text":"那以前的做法啦在108課綱之前的做法是說申請學校就是你如果達到申請那間學校的標準的時候給你幾個月讓你去準備備審資料以前的做法是這樣可是後來把它改成說有一些可能教育專家吧認為說那這樣學生壓力太大要他在兩三個月之內就要準備那麼多資料那乾脆就讓他高一就開始"},{"start":705.982,"end":730.382,"text":"高一就開始結果反而就造成我剛剛講的那個狀況那我再提一個數據啊我相信教育部應該很清楚學習歷程檔案現在越來越大家不想教最新的數據學習成果的未提交比例都接近五成了在高一的時候高一喔高一還是應該是比較聽話的時候剛進到這個環境還願意配合這個體制到高三可能七成多不想教啊"},{"start":731.363,"end":750.03,"text":"所以這個學期歷程檔案真的是應該到了檢討的時候他是不是真的有必要讓學生做這件事情不僅是對很多人覺得白費時間願意準備的白費時間然後很多人是乾脆不理那請問一下這個有達到當初你想要做學期歷程檔案的目的嗎 部長"},{"start":751.777,"end":778.162,"text":"這個跟你也沒關係啦我覺得大家也要就事論事因為這個不是你推的但是既然在這個位置上面假設其他人推的東西遇到了問題那是不是由你來解決那你也是功德一件嘛跟委員報告確實我們現在也看到因為少子化以後我們大學供給量也很大需求量所以有一定的一個程度委員剛才也提到了就是說他不需要靠"},{"start":779.212,"end":806.743,"text":"那個學習歷程檔案他就可以進入到大學我們現在已經折成這個大學入學考試這個委員會跟高中端做一個針對這個學習歷程檔案在政策上做一個認真的一個討論看到底要有什麼樣的一個因應以實際性的一個方法簡單來講比如說如果有一些大學他事實上他就從不管申請入學或者特殊選材裡面"},{"start":808.413,"end":834.065,"text":"或者環境他已經不需要用到或者有一些大學他需要真正去看學生的一個學習歷程檔案我們還是希望認真的來思考這個學習歷程檔案對他們的選材跟學生的一個未來的發展上搭的一個價值性因為現在是多元入學啦有的入學方式本來就不用學習歷程檔案嘛比如你考分科就不用學習歷程檔案但是我們現在學習歷程檔案"},{"start":835.726,"end":854.317,"text":"申請入學的部分嘛學測加上學習程檔案的部分嘛那這個部分很多人認為說也不需要嘛然後還有你會造成學生的負擔嘛他高一高二就開始做對 高一高二就開始做結果他因為學測沒考好就全部都白做啦那為什麼不能恢復像以前一樣"},{"start":855.457,"end":878.693,"text":"就是說他要申請再備審資料就好為什麼要強迫他們高一高二就要做那當然你們會講說什麼高一高二就可以來做的話校園什麼什麼自主探索啊什麼那你們去評估一下他的成效呢那這個其實也有對老師增加負擔嘛因為學生要做要上傳老師也要看所以如果一件事情大家都認為說他沒有達到你當初設定的目標"},{"start":879.594,"end":888.398,"text":"反而製造一些困擾的時候對老師對學生都有困擾的時候那這個東西還有必要持續下去嗎我現在是講這件事情對不對好不好那那一樣啦這個學習證檔案因為"},{"start":895.801,"end":921.679,"text":"每次講都說會思考會研議會什麼我們壓一個日期好不好你是不是可以在什麼時間點把你們的決定或者是怎麼改良要繼續還是怎麼做給大家一個報告好不好各位委員報告針對這個學習歷程檔案其實我們每個月都有召開所謂的剛海部長所說的考照聯動小組的檢討但是在裡面還沒有形成一個比較完善還是有人認為說根據108課剛還是要讓學生提報這個所謂的學習"},{"start":926.122,"end":942.796,"text":"但是也有部分的學者專家就如同委員剛才所說的可以做一些調整跟改變那雙方還沒有具體的共識這個我們會持續的市長我們不能等了啦如果要等到全世界人大家意見都一致的話那這個事情可能118課剛剛就出來了啦"},{"start":945.457,"end":965.404,"text":"你壓一個日期就決定嘛利大於弊還怎麼樣就要做一個決定的不是讓他一直拖啦當然你們的感覺都是一動不如一進嘛可是現在這個問題就衍生出來很多人在抱怨嘛你要做一個決斷嘛那你如果認為說這個東西好要繼續你也跟社會大眾公佈一下啊你壓一個日期沒關係壓一個日期三個月內"},{"start":969.246,"end":976.419,"text":"利弊分析提供給利弊分析之外要告訴大家說怎麼做啦好不好具體的做法啦好不好具體的做法啦謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168155","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168155","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c2716fefb9dd90f0ebad885c3c28ba2b2994a069f48f295f34e5686418a82e3265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"12:10:30 - 12:25:49","影片長度":"00:15:19","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:10:30+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:25:49+08:00","duration":919,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.5372187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.85784375,"end":1.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.902843750000002,"end":10.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.94909375,"end":10.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.98284375,"end":11.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.30346875,"end":15.032843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.539093750000003,"end":44.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.205343750000004,"end":49.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.65596875,"end":52.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.900343750000005,"end":54.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.09846875,"end":54.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.71846875000001,"end":59.650343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.66721875,"end":59.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.68409375,"end":62.502218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.181593750000005,"end":63.953468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.750968750000006,"end":68.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.56096875,"end":64.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.44221875000001,"end":78.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.63471875,"end":79.63034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.63471875,"end":86.58284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.64721875000001,"end":82.34721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.26659375,"end":89.53596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.05534375,"end":87.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.53596875000001,"end":89.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.87346875,"end":102.79971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.49159375,"end":104.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.89221875000001,"end":115.21971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.65034375,"end":114.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.21971875000001,"end":126.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.11659375,"end":127.65659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.06159375000001,"end":128.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.58034375,"end":151.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.78784375,"end":153.27284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.67784375000002,"end":158.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.80784375000002,"end":166.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.97534375,"end":170.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.65409375000002,"end":174.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.58596875,"end":175.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.59846875000002,"end":205.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.14659375000002,"end":178.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.95596875,"end":186.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.45221875000001,"end":195.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.01721875,"end":197.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.97346875000002,"end":222.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.27721875,"end":207.61034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.68096875,"end":215.23784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.49909375000001,"end":218.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.03846875000002,"end":226.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.26971875,"end":246.49034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.87221875,"end":234.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.28534375,"end":237.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.61284375000002,"end":252.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.02534375000002,"end":257.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.04221875000002,"end":252.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.31596875000002,"end":256.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.96534375,"end":258.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.26471875000004,"end":275.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.51784375,"end":263.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.29784375,"end":263.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.07784375,"end":267.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.82034375,"end":267.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.90471875000003,"end":268.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.96784375000004,"end":269.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.65034375,"end":275.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.68409375000005,"end":282.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.31596875,"end":288.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.18846875,"end":292.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.37346875000003,"end":299.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.57534375,"end":302.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.98784375,"end":304.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.74721875,"end":316.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.56096875000003,"end":308.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.72846875000005,"end":317.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.65221875000003,"end":332.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.50409375000004,"end":320.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.61784375,"end":322.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.49846875000003,"end":330.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.54034375000003,"end":334.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.45971875000004,"end":334.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.96596875,"end":335.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.67034375000003,"end":346.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.94409375000004,"end":340.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.48284375000003,"end":359.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.14909375,"end":352.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.85659375,"end":380.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.02221875000004,"end":380.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.79846875000004,"end":380.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.83221875000004,"end":388.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.65346875,"end":390.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.68721875,"end":396.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.87659375000004,"end":418.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.45659375,"end":408.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.18596875000003,"end":416.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.73346875000004,"end":423.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.09596875000005,"end":425.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.07409375000003,"end":426.64784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.10346875000005,"end":427.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.13721875000005,"end":427.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.18784375,"end":427.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.01471875000004,"end":440.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.22534375000004,"end":431.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.35596875000005,"end":431.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.30034375,"end":440.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.21534375000005,"end":444.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.28221875,"end":444.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.48471875,"end":444.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.63659375000003,"end":472.95284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.17971875,"end":452.73659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.92096875000004,"end":461.98409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.42659375000005,"end":468.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.06721875000005,"end":494.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.48534375,"end":495.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.59909375,"end":498.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.58596875,"end":502.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.73784375,"end":498.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.83034375000005,"end":502.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.78784375000004,"end":509.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.33971875000003,"end":509.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.50409375000004,"end":509.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.97659375,"end":515.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.4484687500001,"end":518.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.0134687500001,"end":518.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.18596875,"end":528.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.6497187500001,"end":523.8984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.13471875,"end":525.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.5603437500001,"end":528.1003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.9778437500001,"end":529.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.02846875,"end":529.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.9734687499999,"end":530.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.02409375,"end":531.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.67784375,"end":531.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.0322187500001,"end":540.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.6597187500001,"end":565.1240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.44471875,"end":575.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.54846875,"end":589.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.61534375,"end":582.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.65221875,"end":597.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.08096875,"end":612.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.0078437500001,"end":618.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.5715937500001,"end":617.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.9722187500001,"end":632.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.0290937500001,"end":648.2334687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.6553437499999,"end":652.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.5834687500001,"end":652.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":652.9753437500001,"end":659.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.65346875,"end":667.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.33221875,"end":664.5515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.6653437500001,"end":688.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.06096875,"end":672.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.90346875,"end":681.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.1897187500001,"end":727.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.17909375,"end":759.1865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.7609687500001,"end":766.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.21471875,"end":774.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":771.0834687500001,"end":774.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":774.69471875,"end":792.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":789.4265937499999,"end":809.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":809.00159375,"end":830.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":815.7009687500001,"end":818.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.10909375,"end":823.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":828.81284375,"end":832.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":832.35659375,"end":844.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":836.03534375,"end":838.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":844.3547187500001,"end":845.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":845.97471875,"end":883.5047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":883.70721875,"end":886.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":884.83784375,"end":885.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":885.78284375,"end":887.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":887.6728437500001,"end":897.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":898.03409375,"end":900.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":900.4640937500001,"end":905.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":905.7122187500001,"end":909.2390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":909.55971875,"end":919.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":910.3190937500001,"end":910.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":911.11221875,"end":912.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":919.56659375,"end":920.25846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.791,"text":"今天聊相關一些經貿合作協定的一些經濟效益但我想大部分社會大眾比較關心的最近新聞上的熱頭其實是一樣跟經貿談判相關的當然就是我們的副總談判代表的一些風波"},{"start":26.653,"end":54.786,"text":"那我們當然對於國家痛勢經貿談判好人才表達非常深切的遺憾但是他的這個辭呈裡面其實也提出了非常多的一些值得大家來做政策討論的一個方向所以我們先花點時間討論這個事情齁請問部長這個我們的嚴副總談判代表的辭呈的內容啊你有事前有掌握嗎你可不可以簡單的敘述一下重點大概有哪些我知道他有递辭呈你知道他有递辭呈什麼時候知道的"},{"start":55.785,"end":75.219,"text":"嗯 就是就是舊歷年過後第一時間你就掌握了全部的內容嗎已經有隔幾天了隔了幾天但是你就有看到全部的內容你是事前掌握還是事後再補救啊都比較後面的時候我有得知就是因為他的家屬希望這個辭職能夠盡速生效"},{"start":79.942,"end":102.674,"text":"因為他的身份有雙重的因為他還有我們這個所謂台美會的對嘛 他是以台美會的這個身份來加入OTM 經貿談判辦公室嘛是所以這個我想有幾個問題要就教一下這個部長 不過那辭呈的內容你事前不見得第一時間能掌握這本身倒是可以理解但事後這個東西變成新聞話題了他自然內容重點你可以簡單報告一下吧"},{"start":103.547,"end":126.577,"text":"他會執政裡面提的哪些重點我想他有提到我們談判的機制人才還有涉及到就是跟CPTPP這個談判的怎麼去推動沒錯一個叫做CPTPP的政策執行狀況一個叫做談判人才培養的一個制度還有第三個是內部溝通的失靈大概就是這三件事情分別要跟部長做一下探討這個我想喔"},{"start":129.722,"end":152.992,"text":"我們就從CPTPP開始談因為今天主題還是經貿談判協議嘛對不對這個嚴富代表的辭呈明確的指出這個我們國家領導人層級啊這個對內的強力宣示啊甚至要求部分的政策開放都是基於說要加速CPTPP申請入會的這樣一個程序但是這個辭呈裡面講實際的執行程式恐怕不是這樣卻充滿了消極敷衍的態度這個落差很大"},{"start":153.772,"end":172.865,"text":"那我也聽了部長前一段時間的回應也好,答詢也好,也有講到,你說每一個國家的立場現在都有掌握對不對?因為12個會員國,奧克蘭三原則要全部有共識決,對不對?全部國家立場您都有掌握嗎?我們都有持續掌握中,而且去交涉。有掌握有交涉,那可不可以告訴大家誰贊成誰反對呢?現在?"},{"start":174.619,"end":190.205,"text":"因為我們都要面對到可能中共的因素那有一些我就不好代為說明因為講的時候中共可能會針對某一個對象有一些施壓那多少國家支持多少國家反對基本上沒有國家反對台灣因為"},{"start":191.525,"end":198.31,"text":"大家要瞭解台灣是符合所有自由貿易的條件我們這幾年有很大的進展因為台美簽了21世紀貿易倡議我們又跟包括英國、加拿大很多都簽了一些像ETP部長你先回答問題因為奧克蘭三原則高標準、能力跟意願我相信我們台灣也有做到"},{"start":213.18,"end":236.919,"text":"遵循貿易規範 我覺得我們表現應該不錯唯一的障礙 其實剛剛很多人也諮詢嘛 其實就是共識覺嘛那你剛剛講通過國家都沒有反對 那共識覺這怎麼會是問題呢好 那我跟委員簡單說明齁就是反對要找理由 你要說明 你不能說我們要申請 我們要去說服每個國家 可是有些國家有政治的顧慮或怕中國經濟協同 我跟你講 他有政治的顧慮或其他壓迫也都是反對的 我跟委員講 我這邊很重要 客觀的障礙嘛"},{"start":238.38,"end":257.594,"text":"也就是說所謂共識決是你反對要有理由能夠說服別人不是說啊我不贊成所以現在您的意思是講說沒有辦法達成共識決是因為有部分的會員國反對但是都不講理由事實上這些所謂的會員國他並沒有公開反對也沒有公開反對對對對但是他就是沒有辦法給你12個"},{"start":260.717,"end":269.206,"text":"會員都正式的表態另外有一個我們在突破的就是所謂因為他要成立工作小組所以現在有一個方式在加拿大當主席國的時候他已經允許你所謂的pre-consultation"},{"start":275.894,"end":301.046,"text":"你在成立工作小組之前的雙邊的諮商是可以進行的所以我們跟某些國家有展開雙邊諮商我現在問的是數量 比如12個會員國裡面因為要全部共識 或是大家至少要開綠燈我們才能順利的通過那12個國家裡面有多少國家也開綠燈 我不講個別吧我現在有公開講的 包括像日本 英國都是有公開講台灣的進入是支持的我們要突破障礙 突破障礙裡面還有幾個國家反對"},{"start":303.015,"end":322.794,"text":"不管他有沒有講正當的理由目前是真的沒有國家敢公開反對因為台灣的符合自由貿易的程度都比現在這12個國家高很多現在成立工作小組的有一些自由貿易程度還差我們很多也意思說大家都談得很愉快所以這會變成政治去介入到所謂共識覺我今天沒有在跟你討論這個政治我們要讓他凸顯出來就是說你反對要說理由"},{"start":325.656,"end":346.614,"text":"是啊 因為說理由他就說不出理由說不出理由就等於贊成因此這樣子我們12票我就要問你幾個國家幾個國家沒贊成但說不出理由的幾個國家贊成說不出理由反對說不出理由就沒有辦法開綠燈嗎就沒有國家真的反對啊沒有國家真的反對但是共識覺得過不了這不是很矛盾嗎就是有政治利益介入啊"},{"start":348.567,"end":377.397,"text":"好啦 副長也算是能言善道啦我講的是幫你啦大家都很努力啦 是不是啊輪值的從加拿大到澳洲馬上要到越南 對不對因為大家要知道的是這包含不管是這個嚴副總談判代表最後的這個辭職信裡面所談他都關切的內容我們就總要具體的關心具體的推進 對吧對啊 所以我們就要面對問題但今天你又講說有些國家這個反對但講不出理由那應該就是贊成但是好像因為又有壓力所以突破不了共識決 好吧你有一套說法"},{"start":377.717,"end":388.518,"text":"那到底我們做不做得到 有沒有明確的時間表呢現在行政院有說要整個來推動嘛我們外交部是其中扮演一個角色"},{"start":390.714,"end":418.194,"text":"所以有沒有辦法有具體的時間表 或者是安排因為有各種談判 時間表跟具體方式都沒有要正確的認識奧克蘭三原則不要被扭曲 變成政治力介入 這第一點第二點 我們要成立工作小組啊 必須主席國家比如今年是越南他如果是正面的態度 那站他在主持這個會議的時候 空間表達對 會議的時候他現在是不是正面態度我們都主持會友說 沒有反對 我們就率成"},{"start":418.994,"end":438.728,"text":"啊你又說一一投票 你們是不是贊成 那很多人就說我們沒意見我們就眼下看眼前嘛 那越南友善嗎 會不會有壓力我們應該說台越之間有很多合作的公司我們有很多合作的公司啊 台商等等 非常密切那談判是這樣子嘛 除了我們參加這個 我們來說你以外你有多大把握他今年會很有善的態度 我們有軍事會兼顧到"},{"start":441.03,"end":463.222,"text":"你有多大把握他今年會是友善的態度我們在裡面有機會解決這個要由行政院整體的來做談判策略外交部我們因為有外管我們會去執行外管也是你抓種吧對不對除以在外管方面外交部會去就是說指示他們怎麼去推動可是上位的"},{"start":464.282,"end":493.822,"text":"談判的目標跟策略是要有整個政府的整體的 全政府的整體考量來來來 沒關係啦我們今天在這邊表達關切因為這些東西第一越具體越好第二有一些明確的進展作為政策到底要花多少的資源跟心力在上面大家務實的看待我想是有必要的如果今年越南可能基於政治的壓力不見得友善那你就跟大家清楚的說明我們這個Priority稍微後面一點先處理台美關稅這都可以講這就是道理"},{"start":494.542,"end":518.037,"text":"但如果 他是友善的 我要加碼 你也要講嘛所以我今天問你的原因是這個 多少人贊成多少人反對委員講到重點了啦 對不對重點就在這裡所以你要明確整體談判的規則 雙邊關係那我們再簡單一點這是give and take嘛那今年越南輪值主席 你是樂觀還是悲觀簡單一點就好因為現在我們需要行政院有一個談判的目標跟策略的指導"},{"start":520.253,"end":548.982,"text":"譬如說我們台商投資我們的貿易很多然後台商發展半導體的產業我們的政策工具喔我跟委員講其實在所以你個人現在位置上的專業評估你覺得是樂觀還是悲觀嘛我的角色是外交部長這個經貿談判是有一個機制就是我們的角色把它扮演好我提醒部長我們花了八分多鐘的時間去談這件事情今天這樣子的一個回答恰恰就是嚴副總談判代表擔心的事情嘛"},{"start":549.542,"end":575.59,"text":"好啦這一題先到這裡因為我還有別題要問啦第二個其實我更關心的其實是這個外交人才的徵補跟掌握在本席了解OTM的編制上當然談判總代表抓總兩個副總談判代表的設置原則上就本席的粗淺的認識啦一個是經濟部體系嘛因為我要了解國內的產業對吧產能夠做合理的策略安排一個當然是外交部體系要尊重外交體系的專業演副總談判代表是哪一個體系出來的"},{"start":576.581,"end":601.748,"text":"他算是 所以他是比較是 雖然是掛在這個台北他是經貿 不是他的背景的專業另外一個是我們的陳明基政事啊你要補他位子的是陳明基政事是不是外交體系出來的對好 現在他的裡面過去他所揭露的一些狀況不管是對內的溝通也好或者是怎麼樣顯然他受了蠻大的一個委屈啊那我想請問啊 他是外交部"},{"start":602.088,"end":616.814,"text":"在派駐 等於是外交部放在經貿談判辦公室裡面代表外交部的人才不是不是不是 我們外交部是城市政事啊他只是因為經貿談判辦公室是任務編組那他需要有一個政府的一個角色 那是同時間"},{"start":617.554,"end":632.299,"text":"他以台灣美國事務委員會主委身份兼任嘛所以當然是在外交體系嘛好他在裡面遇到問題或者是遇到一些委屈的時候外交部有沒有事前的掌握他有沒有循線跟你來做反應您在這個過程中扮演了什麼角色可不可以簡單回答一下"},{"start":633.306,"end":658.759,"text":"因為這是有經貿台灣辦公室在主政啦那屬於台美會的部分比如說我們有美國的貴賓來我們也會邀請這個台美會的這個主席來參與這是屬於台美會的事務所以你跟他只聊台美會是不聊OTN的經貿台灣辦公室他們在主政完蛋了你這樣回答我就幫他捏把冷汗難怪他會孤軍奮戰嘛"},{"start":660.694,"end":684.635,"text":"他當然期待外交部在裡面協助一下因為從他個人的身份他也不能跟他的黨官作對比如說我們外交部我們當然也會請中經院進行對於加入CPTPP對德國經貿包括對於GDP的影響我們這個就是屬於我們透過我們外交部的機制在做可是談判策略是行政院經貿辦公室整體"},{"start":686.277,"end":704.859,"text":"包括經濟部、農業部等等我真是捏了一把冷汗它裡面點出來的問題其實就是理論上來講這東西要兼顧產業的專業也要兼顧外交的專業兩邊要一起提供人才共同討論形成理性決策這才是OTA應該扮演的角色但顯然在裡面它所呈現出來的"},{"start":705.76,"end":726.772,"text":"不管是他的控訴也好或怎麼樣顯現出來是不對稱的也就是出現我都不談是不是符合霸凌等等細節這不是我今天要爭論的重點但在裡面顯然受了委屈而且孤軍奮戰外交部應該要提供適時的協助跟支援所以這就是我為什麼問你在這個過程中有沒有尋求外交部的協助或者是相關團隊的支持呢"},{"start":728.693,"end":755.178,"text":"我們在外交部做 我剛剛有報告我們派了三個次長到三個國家派了次長去遊說然後我們也做了調查報告然後我們也發動外管所以屬於外交部的這個部分我相信委員也質詢過很多我們對情資的掌握包括我剛剛講的那些所謂三原則的解釋然後所謂pre consultation在成立工作小組之間的雙邊智商也可以展開這個就是屬於"},{"start":756.638,"end":766.761,"text":"我現在就單純問你我們外交部一定有很多人也參與經貿談判嘛他們有沒有跟嚴副總代表有保持密切的溝通給予事實的支持然後你有沒有掌握他受到委屈的狀況有或沒有嘛"},{"start":768.597,"end":797.152,"text":"沒有的話他就是個問題需要檢討改進我講他提的現象是存在的對不對就是他提到的問題的現象是存在的我們當然要整個行政院我們整個經貿談判的策略我們的團隊我們的分工我們的策略都需要這個應該要徹底的檢討我希望部長您代表的是外交部全部你是外交部的龍頭啊外交部的體系在經貿談判裡面是很重要的"},{"start":797.712,"end":818.187,"text":"我剛剛你剛剛講現在顯然有點缺乏資源的狀況我要再追著問因為他體現另外一個問題叫經貿談判人才的缺乏我們現在部裡面接下來還有多少的經貿談判的人才儲備委員我可以跟你講一個現象嗎比如說經貿談判公司他是借調我們外交部的同仁一棍去跑他這個對我們外交同仁他的一個升遷可能就會有影響不利的影響對不對"},{"start":824.971,"end":840.161,"text":"當然就是我們還是很支持啊可是這個也要找到適合的人所以外交部第一個在體制上制度上的修正第一要距離立章所以經貿談判的人才確實是一個要有一個國家的談判人才要有專門的儲備機制嘛你是要考量到他就是人才的整個這個制度嘛"},{"start":842.982,"end":862.852,"text":"這個委員講的是非常非常關鍵的我今天沒有要為難你的意思但是我今天一定要藉這樣子允把話點出來要不然真的顏副總談判代表的委屈就白受了嘛就一定是制度要完整你剛剛講到 部長你剛剛回答得來 至少我們今天還有點建設性也就是說 哎呀 如果借調到OTM體系等等因為人家是經濟部主導 這是歷年來的習慣"},{"start":864.853,"end":883.189,"text":"那反而對我們外交人員的升遷跟發展可能會遭受影響所以可能普遍會出現相對困難跟意願低落的狀況這就是行政體系要檢討的東西嘛要不然現在這件事情調查完又傳過水無痕所有事情保持一致外交談判 經貿談判人才持續稀缺那所有事情原地踏步就完蛋了"},{"start":883.752,"end":905.043,"text":"不然我今天話有一點激動,你就不要太快了我是很希望我們的人才是平衡的尤其因為中華民國的外交常常受到打壓所以經貿是我們的命脈所以我希望外交部花更多的精力跟資源培養經貿談判的人才特別是在借調到跨部合作的時候拜託外交部要當他們的後盾啦"},{"start":905.964,"end":918.983,"text":"讓他們可以好好的發揮這樣整個團隊戰力才會強好啦 我的提醒就到這邊希望我外交部不管是針對國際經貿談判的一些明確的進度或者是人才的增補培養更重要的是人才的支持請扮演積極角色 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168154","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168154","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cd607c9b283dbde65bd67b93b5004dc02994a069f48f295f37ddab3ead9da41ef5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"12:09:09 - 12:23:47","影片長度":"00:14:38","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:09:09+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:23:47+08:00","duration":878,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.1822187500000005,"end":5.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.81909375,"end":7.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.54034375,"end":8.755343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.767218750000001,"end":14.340968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.340968750000002,"end":98.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.74971875,"end":105.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.98471875000001,"end":130.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.01096875000002,"end":151.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.27721875,"end":170.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.14784375000002,"end":184.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.70471875,"end":170.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.91784375,"end":188.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.54159375,"end":194.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.07659375,"end":209.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.61846875,"end":284.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.38346875,"end":286.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.45034375,"end":286.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.92284375,"end":296.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.58784375000005,"end":312.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.14284375,"end":310.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.01596875,"end":314.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.05346875000004,"end":335.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.97284375000004,"end":318.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.32034375,"end":360.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.51784375,"end":343.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.52534375000005,"end":346.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.61596875000004,"end":366.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.10471875,"end":378.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.04971875,"end":366.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.92534375,"end":492.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.75159375000004,"end":384.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.16784375000003,"end":393.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.31971875000005,"end":394.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.36596875000004,"end":395.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.88221875000005,"end":493.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.58659375,"end":511.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.98471875,"end":530.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.58659375,"end":522.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.97034375,"end":523.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.6453437499999,"end":523.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.96596875,"end":524.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.0334687500001,"end":524.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.3572187500001,"end":560.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.5303437499999,"end":581.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.72471875,"end":585.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.7709687500001,"end":597.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.60971875,"end":591.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.4734687499999,"end":600.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.54096875,"end":597.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.9540937500001,"end":599.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.1184687500001,"end":604.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.40909375,"end":606.1640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.80971875,"end":620.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.4109687499999,"end":630.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.72159375,"end":634.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.4172187500001,"end":635.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.2734687500001,"end":723.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.7322187500001,"end":772.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":772.3490937500001,"end":792.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":792.3797187499999,"end":796.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":795.3159687500001,"end":806.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":796.91909375,"end":797.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":805.4240937500001,"end":805.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":806.4365937500002,"end":851.1215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":812.1909687500001,"end":812.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":823.51409375,"end":823.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":824.5434687500001,"end":825.7078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":825.9440937500001,"end":826.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":851.72909375,"end":853.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":853.02846875,"end":853.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":854.4965937500001,"end":854.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":855.3234687500001,"end":876.1472187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.192,"end":8.358,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請部長好 有請部長"},{"start":13.803,"end":34.5,"text":"委員好部長辛苦了今天其實我還是要針對消失會議的部分來提出一些我的看法跟一些問題我想消失會議其實是在我們第一線的老師的現場其實他們也因為消失會議的關係剛剛前面其實我聽了有幾位的委員也特別提到現在其實我們"},{"start":35,"end":54.729,"text":"老師的部分 校園的部分其實有一波這個老師要出走潮那我想消失會議可能也佔了很大的一個重要的一個原因那我想先請教一下這個部長我們之前其實當然我們1月12號的時候其實我們也對外公布了這個消失會議的部分我們怎麼樣來做這個最好的一個補救的一個方式"},{"start":55.249,"end":78.102,"text":"就是让老师不要在校园当中除了教学以外还要人心惶惶面对自己被调查这样子的一个危机那当时其实我们也说了我们会删除这个匿名检举弹书那我相信这个应该就可以解决蛮大的一个部分就是被滥诉的一个就是匿名滥诉的这样子一个状况那第二个其实之前我多次的在咨询我相信我是第一个提到这个消失会议的人哦"},{"start":78.482,"end":105.489,"text":"那當然我也多次的建議就是教育部我們是不是在這個進入校事會議之前我們會有一個分流也就是分級的一個機制那這個部分呢我想問一下就是教育部目前有沒有收到來自校園方面他們做了這樣子的一個處理那效果或成效又如何這個分流的機制就是在進入校事會議之前我們先把有一些根本就是溝通上的一個問題我是現場可以解決的不需要再走所謂的校事會議的程序這個部分有沒有收到一些回饋"},{"start":107.196,"end":122.026,"text":"跟委員報告到這個2月28號等於說今年1月12到2月28我們收到的全國有86案那麼受理的才只有等於說在事前就分流了大概就只有"},{"start":122.546,"end":151.718,"text":"二十二案其他就變成不受理或者轉到考二案他確實達到了已經開始有分流了好那我想要再回到這個所謂的分流有所謂的這個分流的一個這樣子的一個算是方法就是在校園當中已經開始實行了那他的確也出現了一些效果但是我想要問的是這個誰來決定分流到底是停留在我只是溝通我在學校端我就可以解決然後接著下來我可能有一些部分我可能要"},{"start":152.378,"end":175.792,"text":"往所謂的校士會議前進這個分流的組成的判定的團體或者是組織是由校方的人員呢還是由老師還是由所謂的這個家長還是由外部的一些專業的這個學者或者是專家這個分流的這個制度根文報告在基本上就是這一個組成是校長老師代表"},{"start":176.332,"end":192.068,"text":"家長代表還有社會公正人士但是校長是不投票的所以等於就是由教師代表家長代表跟社會公正人士他們取得一些共識之後然後再回來就是校長來做裁定對不對應該是這樣子他們就做了一個決定校長基本上就在主持這個會議讓他能夠順暢"},{"start":194.25,"end":208.478,"text":"為什麼我今天特別提到這個問題這個看似我們針對所謂的這個消失會議的這個前端的部分分流的一個部分看似我們好像還蠻多元的然後還蠻完整的但是問題是會不會有可能成為"},{"start":209.699,"end":232.177,"text":"不是沒有有沒有專業的問題是誰要不要負責判斷的這個問題我為什麼要這麼講喔那我以日本來做這樣子的一個例子喔日本在2020年其實他們就已經提出了所謂的這個校園律師這樣子的一個機制那校園律師的一個存在其實不只是存在於校園當中他可以處理包含學生被霸凌或者是師生"},{"start":233.058,"end":250.529,"text":"事件的一些關係等等他做一些比較正確而且法律上的一個專業的一個判斷那回到我們現在講的所謂的校事會議的前端我們的分級的一個機制喔那我想呢是由法律的專業來主導這個前端的一個判斷他是一個非常重要的一個緩衝同時他也會避免"},{"start":251.129,"end":275.392,"text":"我想避免是什麼避免行政最後來主導這個判斷也就是說我把這些專業意見變成只是其中的一個參考而已但是在日本他們是有這樣子的一個所謂的校園律師我們有沒有可能往這個方向來做這樣子的一個考量也就是說當一個案件進來的時候其實在台灣剛剛我們講到台灣的校園我們是有家長代表我們可能有學生代表"},{"start":275.993,"end":295.949,"text":"家長代表我們有這個教師代表然後再來可能有行政人員然後最後這個校長他是沒有投票的一個權利社會公正是訓練過是外界的公正那只要有爭議只要碰到如果這個所謂的案例他是有爭議的會不會因為我們剛剛講的沒有一個人想要當壞人啊"},{"start":297.799,"end":314.19,"text":"你懂我意思嗎就沒有一個人想要當壞人沒有人想當壞人的時候他沒有人願意去承擔說啊這個所謂的這個消失會議我可能就不受理那最後我們大家都沒有辦法決定好那就只好送消失會議會不會有可能這樣的一個狀況當然有時候土耳不足以置信當然"},{"start":315.211,"end":335.29,"text":"有沒有可能我當然是有可能但是我們至少在程序譬如說他是匿名投票然後這個校外的控制人士當然他有可能有法律專業背景的或者因為這個事件裡面他們可能是走這個心理學家或者這個兒童社工人士等等的這些"},{"start":335.35,"end":359.926,"text":"因為今天這個時間關係我為什麼會特別提到就是說我們是不是可以來參考日本他們的一個做法也就是說我們傾向程序化的處理不要只是為了自保而已而是這個程序化之前的這個分級的處理我們是不是可以給一個所謂的這個第三方最公正的一個單位這個人可能就是所謂有律師背景我們來做所謂的這個比照"},{"start":360.746,"end":377.792,"text":"如果是法律問題進入程序如果只是溝通問題我們可以現場來做處理我們到進入實時的審查到那個第二個階段那個所謂的真正認定他可能會可能會觸及到這個解聘不信任的這些但通常各個學校都會有法律的專家進來好"},{"start":379.392,"end":393.869,"text":"但是我剛剛講了法律的專家進來他只是其中的一環的其中的一個人但是其實我們看到日本他們是把法律的專家是守在整個所有的制度或所有的機制的最前面這個其實我們也可以來做一個參考啦好不好"},{"start":394.389,"end":420.009,"text":"好那接下來第二個問題其實我剛剛有特別提到我們的老師出走潮那現在其實關於這個國中小的一個教師離職的人數其實算是最多的那麼從這個109年的一個資料到113年從原本的2249人包含這些離職啦退休啦或者是所謂的這個留停的人數從2000多人已經暴增到"},{"start":420.609,"end":441.597,"text":"五千零二十四人五年之內其實已經高達了百分之一百二十三那這個其實等於是翻倍的在流失啊就是老師的這樣子的一個人才是翻倍的在流失那尤其是中間的四十歲到五十歲這最重要的中生代的一個教師他是校園最重要的一個主幹但"},{"start":442.197,"end":449.842,"text":"這群人他們最不想要留在校園這是一個非常大的一個隱憂再來現在連心血都不願意進來了為什麼心血不願意進來因為連同公費生可能有15%他說我真的寧可賠錢我也要解約要走人好那這個也是隱憂再來我們調查過了這個"},{"start":460.309,"end":485.755,"text":"這是翻轉教育他們說了這個校園當中將近有四成的老師考慮在三年之內要離職我們有沒有掌握到底是什麼原因留不住人是因為我們的整個所有的薪資的結構還是有一個最重要的原因還是剛剛我提到的所謂的校士的會議我們不能在一個已經在漏水的桶子裡面我說沒關係我就一直加水加水加水他還在漏啊"},{"start":486.135,"end":510.671,"text":"如果沒有找到真正的原因我們怎麼補足這一塊因為最終受影響的還是學生的受教權這個部分謝謝委員提醒確實老師的工作滿意度是很重要關係到我們台灣的一個教育品質那我們事實上從實施因為譬如說我們實施在從民國五十七年改制為國中每三十年"},{"start":512.045,"end":529.96,"text":"大概一個世代退休潮那當然隨著你看五十七年到八十七年到一一七理論上他就是當然他可能會是一個世代交替他可能會是一個在這幾年因為隨著我們科技產業的犀利這案也可能是一個原因另外"},{"start":531.897,"end":558.842,"text":"所以剛剛其實部長有講到可能可能可能可是問題是我希望教育部要做到的因為我們畢竟是教育部我們是最高的主管機關這個部分如果我們沒有辦法掌握真正學校校園失資流失的真正的關鍵的原因我們找不到方法如果找不到方法我們有再好的一些政策其實我們真的都應該認為這個是一個非常重要的一個問題"},{"start":560.882,"end":581.372,"text":"是專業的一個立場我的很清楚我們在師培裡邊我們功一定要大於求那至於地方國民教育本來是地方他應該他是地方前線嘛老師校長都是他們在聘學校的經理人都是來自地方前線我們希望地方也能夠"},{"start":585.997,"end":600.344,"text":"我們都知道我們公願意大於求但重點是很多好幾招之後他還是招不滿要好幾招我想我的心情跟委員是一樣就是說"},{"start":601.444,"end":625.407,"text":"國民教育地方他不能兩手一攤就說我聘不到老師我希望我們來做一個真正的現場的盤點來真的找出到底這些老師留不住的真正的原因到底在哪裡然後我們才能夠更具體這個部分是不是有一些比較施設師跟國教署也一直在這一個部分委託學者專家在做"},{"start":626.788,"end":644.625,"text":"一系列的一些計畫研究在了解我想老師的專業跟基石是國家最重要的一個競爭力的存在那最後請主席再給我一點時間還有第三個問題那我想這個部分我們如果有一些比較進程的一些報告再提供給我辦公室我們真的來正視這樣子的一個問題好嗎好"},{"start":646.266,"end":662.717,"text":"然後再來第三個問題我想大家都知道現在不管是假訊息也好然後AI是日新月異啊然後再加上所謂的認知作戰是越來越嚴重了但是在我們的教育體系當中我們是不是還停留在教學生不要亂信所謂的假訊息這樣子一個層次而已剛剛"},{"start":663.878,"end":679.034,"text":"聽到就是我們的這個AI立委我們的葛羅軍委員他有特別提到芬蘭那我也想要用芬蘭來做這樣子的一個例子來說明那我想這個芬蘭他們是從3歲到10歲就已經開始在教孩子們什麼叫做"},{"start":680.135,"end":700.09,"text":"識讀的能力那他們甚至在語言的課程當中已經開始在辨識所謂的訊息的來源那麼他們在社會課程當中已經開始在判讀所謂的公共的議題甚至在數位科的這個教學的方面他們已經開始在用演算法跟假訊息這樣子的一個操作在作為教育了所以為什麼這個芬蘭從這個如果我沒記錯從2018年到2023年"},{"start":706.095,"end":722.87,"text":"他一直是所謂的嗜讀教育整個所有的評比的第一名這是在歐洲但是除了在歐洲德國也開始做了英國也開始做了連我們知道的南韓也開始做了韓國也開始做了那我想呢現在如果說大家都已經全世界都已經"},{"start":723.931,"end":748.626,"text":"意識到所謂的嗜讀的教育嗜讀的認知的問題其實是媒體嗜讀非常非常重要的問題我們如果還只是停留在分散在各科流於形式只是在告訴大家說啊這個可能是假的這個可能是真的但是我們沒有統一或者是系統性的不管是師培也好或者是教學的資源的支柱也好讓老師只是輕輕的帶過我想這個問題會非常非常的嚴重我們有沒有"},{"start":753.649,"end":771.445,"text":"我想這所謂的這個媒體的試讀它不是選修而是真的從小現在開始我們就應該要有一個整合性的一個這樣子的一個把中小學把媒體試讀這樣子的一個科學能夠放進去我們的課綱當中我們有沒有這樣子一個計畫"},{"start":773.547,"end":790.281,"text":"最近確實我們規劃了一個AI人才這個方舟計畫裡邊本來媒體試讀我們就一直在從小學就前面在做包含我們這一個終身教育師他也在這個社大裡邊社區大學裡邊樂齡裡邊也都有在教"},{"start":792.403,"end":816.578,"text":"沒有我不是在講外面我是在講學校啊我是在講中小學啊學校就有開始在做那這個剛才所講的是AI人才方舟計畫裡面媒體試圖它也是一個重點也是我們一個計畫裡面我想我提醒教育部我們要把這個部分當成是國家級的基礎工程來做為什麼我要這麼說因為它其實跟我們的國家安全有分別"},{"start":816.578,"end":841.21,"text":"非常大的一個關係如果孩子們他沒有從小有這樣子的一個觀念其實他就是國安非常嚴重的一個破口我們一定要我們一定要把它當成一個非常重要的正式來做看怎麼樣把所謂的這個媒體識讀的一個教育正式納入國中小的一個階段讓每一個孩子都知道我要怎麼樣在日新月異的AI整個所有"},{"start":841.59,"end":852.2,"text":"都有可能因為一個指令就可能變成一個假訊息這樣子的一個充斥的一個環境當中能夠找到自己能夠自我判斷媒體識讀的一個能力好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":854.554,"end":875.954,"text":"好 谢谢郭玉晴委员请部长回座主席在这边先宣告那个叶元之委员发言前我先有一件事要说明今天有一个临时提案一案那在武力华委员咨询完毕之后我们要进行处理好 现在有请叶元之委员询答请"}]}},{"id":"168153","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168153","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cbec18e1d7376a5257570c8d4d2e9dc78994a069f48f295f3498159baeeef385c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"12:07:43 - 12:22:56","影片長度":"00:15:13","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:07:43+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:22:56+08:00","duration":913,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.0603437500000001,"end":3.5915937500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.96284375,"end":6.527843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.83159375,"end":8.907218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.85909375,"end":20.399093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.02346875,"end":23.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.90909375,"end":28.887218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.70971875,"end":36.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.86471875,"end":39.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.97409375,"end":60.915968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.30409375000001,"end":71.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.50659375,"end":61.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.299718750000004,"end":62.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.73284375,"end":73.50471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.84221875,"end":75.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.05284375000001,"end":78.38159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.53346875000001,"end":78.98909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.09034375,"end":80.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.32221875,"end":81.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.79034375,"end":83.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.18659375,"end":84.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.11471875000001,"end":87.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.91159375000001,"end":93.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.55221875000001,"end":94.41284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.66596875,"end":95.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.72909375,"end":96.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.92721875000001,"end":97.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.37846875000001,"end":101.53409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.36096875000001,"end":102.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.20471875000001,"end":103.69409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.98096875,"end":105.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.49534375,"end":119.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.36659375,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.03721875000001,"end":126.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.84221875000001,"end":143.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.94534375,"end":143.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.02971875,"end":154.96034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.11409375,"end":143.13096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.19659375,"end":155.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.26409375,"end":159.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.41534375,"end":159.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.52909375000002,"end":161.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.33471875,"end":163.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.98846875,"end":168.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.10971875,"end":171.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.29534375,"end":171.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.32909375,"end":171.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.41346875000002,"end":172.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.72971875000002,"end":172.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.81409375,"end":173.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.20221875000001,"end":176.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.00346875000002,"end":177.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.69096875000002,"end":180.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.04471875000002,"end":187.39409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.71471875,"end":197.08034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.77221875,"end":202.22721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.56471875000003,"end":203.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.01596875,"end":205.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.97346875000002,"end":215.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.03534375,"end":219.43971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.08096875,"end":237.54659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.05784375000002,"end":233.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.32284375,"end":239.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.41534375,"end":242.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.84534375,"end":243.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.02659375000002,"end":245.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.88284375,"end":249.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.25784375,"end":250.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.43909375,"end":255.68721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.70409375000003,"end":282.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.99096875000004,"end":296.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.03534375000004,"end":299.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.02221875000004,"end":299.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.32596875,"end":306.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.08034375,"end":306.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.98721875,"end":307.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.89846875,"end":315.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.96471875000003,"end":316.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.79159375,"end":339.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.01159375000003,"end":340.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.06221875,"end":345.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.59721875,"end":345.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.93471875,"end":352.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.58346875,"end":370.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.36534375,"end":377.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.58784375000005,"end":381.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.70971875000004,"end":384.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.86534375,"end":395.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.50221875,"end":387.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.81721875000005,"end":396.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.26846875,"end":404.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.14909375,"end":408.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.03034375000004,"end":412.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.36721875,"end":429.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.78659375,"end":432.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":430.19159375000004,"end":430.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.13221875000005,"end":432.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.38534375,"end":433.75221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.08971875000003,"end":434.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.64221875000004,"end":449.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.71596875,"end":455.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.90909375,"end":458.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.82846875,"end":467.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.71721875000003,"end":472.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.61096875000004,"end":474.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.48409375000006,"end":477.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.13346875,"end":507.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.02346875,"end":507.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.83346875,"end":507.90096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.23846875000004,"end":508.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.25534375,"end":512.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.01034375000006,"end":510.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.5203437499999,"end":516.4397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.0347187500001,"end":518.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.62096875,"end":534.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.25971875,"end":534.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.22159375,"end":537.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.8203437500001,"end":539.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.70596875,"end":546.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.7978437500001,"end":547.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.59096875,"end":550.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.6284687500001,"end":554.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.2522187500001,"end":557.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.9015937500001,"end":567.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.4653437500001,"end":574.2703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.60784375,"end":575.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.87346875,"end":577.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.0503437500001,"end":578.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.1809687500001,"end":610.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.02846875,"end":612.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.67784375,"end":613.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.3103437500001,"end":634.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.9865937500001,"end":635.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.2522187500001,"end":638.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.7834687500001,"end":639.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.69471875,"end":640.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.6397187499999,"end":641.4834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.9053437499999,"end":642.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.10346875,"end":652.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":652.6884687500001,"end":656.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.0759687500001,"end":675.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.0434687500001,"end":678.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.6928437500001,"end":680.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.1397187500002,"end":681.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.30409375,"end":683.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.3503437500001,"end":684.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.4597187500001,"end":686.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.22284375,"end":690.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.5559687500001,"end":691.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.0703437500001,"end":694.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.55534375,"end":699.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":700.7822187500001,"end":702.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.11096875,"end":708.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.6584687500001,"end":717.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.72471875,"end":719.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.44596875,"end":719.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.30659375,"end":723.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.25971875,"end":725.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":725.8415937500001,"end":726.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.5290937500001,"end":728.3897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.9128437500001,"end":730.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.93784375,"end":731.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.8659687500001,"end":734.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":734.5322187500001,"end":741.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.9740937500001,"end":743.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":743.79659375,"end":752.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":752.79096875,"end":754.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.9678437500002,"end":756.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":757.1784687500001,"end":758.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.37221875,"end":760.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":761.7178437500002,"end":762.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.8484687499999,"end":767.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.07971875,"end":768.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.9740937500001,"end":770.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":770.9484687500001,"end":774.0872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":774.7790937500001,"end":775.3359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":775.8759687500001,"end":778.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":779.5378437500001,"end":781.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":781.6640937500001,"end":783.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":783.4697187500001,"end":787.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":787.78971875,"end":800.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":801.3572187500001,"end":802.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":802.69034375,"end":803.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":805.9978437500001,"end":810.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.26284375,"end":820.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":821.10096875,"end":829.6397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":825.1340937500001,"end":826.6528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":829.53846875,"end":831.1922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":831.12471875,"end":836.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.20909375,"end":832.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":836.27159375,"end":844.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":844.43909375,"end":847.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.2234687500002,"end":848.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":849.09659375,"end":850.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":851.07096875,"end":851.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":852.3872187500001,"end":853.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":853.5347187500001,"end":855.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":855.82971875,"end":858.7322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":858.93471875,"end":864.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":865.0434687500001,"end":870.8484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":871.0678437500001,"end":878.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":879.15096875,"end":880.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":880.58534375,"end":886.0359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":886.37346875,"end":895.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":895.4184687500001,"end":896.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":897.59534375,"end":898.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":899.3840937500001,"end":901.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":902.0672187500002,"end":902.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":903.3159687500001,"end":907.3659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":908.88471875,"end":909.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":909.7622187500001,"end":911.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":912.1415937500001,"end":913.76159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.052,"end":28.102,"text":"好謝謝主席那請我們保訓會蔡處長和行政院副秘書長請蔡處長及副秘書長我也好好我先請問一下處長那如果公務人員遭受霸凌我們通常是依據什麼法規來處理"},{"start":30.731,"end":36.601,"text":"公務員報告是依照公務人員保障法以及公務人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法的規定"},{"start":38.833,"end":60.53,"text":"那根據工人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法裡面他有一個各機關應組成安全及衛生防護委員會那就是我們講防護委員會他在處理職場霸凌的事件那通常他都上面有寫通常是由機關的副首長或者幕僚長來擔任召集人"},{"start":61.531,"end":86.869,"text":"對嘛然後其中當然也會聘請我們相關的專家學者不能少於三分之一這是我們裡面的處理辦法的條例那像我們這一次爆發我們研會新副代表這個高階談判代表的事件那他上面就是我們的政務委員跟行政院那他的法規上所以看起來應該"},{"start":89.673,"end":105.062,"text":"他的機關副首長應該就是我們的行政院副院長鄭麗君那他的幕僚長就是我們的經貿談判代表楊貞妮不是這樣是嗎如果照你規章的話"},{"start":106.53,"end":126.281,"text":"跟委員報告那行政院本部目前也有設置防護委員會那我們總共有12位委員那裡面有5位是外聘的那我們的召集人是我們的幕僚長秘書長對但是我剛剛講的那兩位其實也是可以擔任只是你這次是因為迴避嘛"},{"start":127.898,"end":154.438,"text":"所以請秘書長來擔任這次的召集人不是 我們那是常設的編組好 那重點是這次我們我看我們這次行政院昨天下午提的這份專案報告那召集人是我們行政院的秘書長行政院秘書長他提這個報告那針對這部分報告說是依據我們行政院院本部職場霸凌防制申訴及調查處理的要點"},{"start":155.379,"end":180.08,"text":"那我想請問一下這個要點是什麼時候公布的去年年底那奇怪那這個為什麼這要點我們在網路上都查不到我們行政院本部有這個要點我們有做內部公告但是所以是有這個要點只是我們查不到所以我想了解說因為我們都查不到這個要點"},{"start":182.11,"end":196.858,"text":"然後一般來講像我們很多像司法院環境部各單位都有公布這個要點而且他針對這個委員會的名單都有訂定都有公布反而我們行政院這邊我們是看不到的"},{"start":197.85,"end":213.06,"text":"所以我在想說到底是不是有這個要點還是因為這次事情發生我們才去成立這個要點去做處理沒有 這個我們是根據保訓會的安慰辦法然後修我們自己的內規然後再重新設立"},{"start":214.241,"end":237.278,"text":"好 那重點就是我們當然也看得到像我們成立這個調查小組如果當事人關係人雖然他有可能是我們機關副首長或者幕僚長但是如果跟他有相當的關係的話當事人當然是一定要迴避的嘛所以這次由秘書長擔任是沒有問題但是我們疑義的是"},{"start":238.396,"end":255.202,"text":"其實秘書長來去做這個調查小組的召集人但是副院長跟幕僚長跟他的關係也是相當密切那會不會對於這個中立性或者政治力的介入我覺得大家是有疑義的"},{"start":256.042,"end":281.912,"text":"跟委員報告這一次的調查小組的話我們四位都是外聘委員完全沒有我們內部的委員參與調查出來以後他會寫結案報告結案報告我們會送到防護委員會來開會原先防護委員會的召集人是我們的秘書長他因為也是我們對美貿易小組的成員所以他會自請迴避"},{"start":283.577,"end":305.173,"text":"所以這份報告來提會討論的時候他會自請迴避自請迴避的時候我們委員之間會互為代理推舉一個主席來主持這個會議好12位裡面有4位是外聘的有5位是外聘的5位是外聘的就是外聘的專家學者那其他的部分是我們行政院內部的機關的人員那"},{"start":308.176,"end":314.954,"text":"這一次的調查小組 那我請問一下這個外部的人員外部聘任是由誰去聘任 由誰來挑選"},{"start":316.857,"end":333.551,"text":"外部聘任的話,因為這次保訓會是修改了規定以前我們就有性騷的成員,以前也有霸凌的小組這次我們是把他合併起來,我們就是用原來的委員來繼續留任"},{"start":340.077,"end":359.376,"text":"因為我們 據我們了解啦其實這外聘委員還是由我們機關裡面去聘任的所以就算這12人裡面有7個是我們機關的成員另外5個雖然是外部聘任可是挑選聘任還是由我們機關的人員去聘任所以我們認為這個公正性"},{"start":361.037,"end":379.488,"text":"其實有待考量啦那尤其像這次我們顏慧欣副代表的事件據我們了解其實她進去之後去年九月份就因為壓力很大就開始請病假就開始請病假之後2月19號請辭王一鳴委員質詢的時候院長也"},{"start":385.999,"end":411.897,"text":"當場就有承認說2月19號池城裡面他已經知道他有陳情因為工作上的這些的問題所以2月19號也就池城提出來卓院長也知情這件事情也知悉了那到12月到3月12號那個顏慧欣副代表往生結果也沒有看到去調查這件事情那當然"},{"start":413.69,"end":431.006,"text":"這個事情我們真正社會大眾知道是3月26號我們社群網站披露之後我剛剛也有聽我們副秘書長講因為社群網站在3月26號披露之後我們才正式成立調查小組去調查做處理沒有錯吧那所以"},{"start":435.717,"end":465,"text":"我們今天要討論的就是我覺得我們這個機制上應該是有一些問題啦你這個霸凌申訴的管道你看12個成員裡面7個就是我們機關裡面的成員5個外聘也是由機關去挑釁那等於12個都是你們決定啊那試問顏惠心代表9月份因為壓力太大你看連這個高階代表都不敢申訴何況一般的公務人員"},{"start":465.8,"end":477.048,"text":"而且到2月19號連卓院長之息辭呈的原因那我請問一下後來卓院長有交代處理嗎"},{"start":479.995,"end":503.531,"text":"昨天昨院長回覆王委員說明的時候他是說他2月19號的時候有收到院長辦公室的幕僚轉來的訊息他知道有這件事情他也交代幕僚要下去關心除了關心以外也希望嚴副總談判代表他好好休養身體康復以後繼續來為國服務是給他慰留的"},{"start":508.334,"end":509.196,"text":"我有聽副秘書長講啊所以其實你們都不知道這件事情所以"},{"start":513.901,"end":539.631,"text":"講實在話就是沒有交辦去調查嘛對不對當時我們是真的沒有調查因為你剛剛我有聽嘛你回答其他委員說你們根本不知道這件事情是後來王育民委員提出質詢你們才知道喔原來2月19號院長就知道那知道之後你們不清楚就表示沒有交辦那結果我們原來調查小組的成立我們這些機制看起來都沒用"},{"start":540.745,"end":567.642,"text":"而且連行政院長知道也沒處理真正調查小組成立的關鍵點在哪裡原來在社群網站披露之後我們調查小組才依輿論成立調查小組所以這個機制跟行政院長其實看起來都沒有處理這件事情難怪一般的公務人員認為這個申訴管道基本上是沒有效益的而且"},{"start":569.724,"end":576.994,"text":"剛剛講12個委員7個是你機關的人另外5個還是機關指定你不覺得一般公務員敢申訴嗎"},{"start":579.426,"end":608.661,"text":"跟國民報告 那我們近兩年來的時候呢我們確實也有一些霸凌的申訴案那我們也運作這個機制的時候呢齁那其實也是很順利的運作啦因為我們參加這個委員會的同仁的時候呢大家都有一個認知啦因為你處理事情一定要公正客觀然後呢 你對執行職務的部分的時候你要做保密的義務啦那基本上 我自己的觀察啦我們這一兩年來我們在運作上的時候我們都確保這兩個大前提"},{"start":609.221,"end":638.069,"text":"不是啊你保密我們接受啊重點根本沒有辦啊我沒有叫你公開啊問題是確實你也承認從2月19號院長知道之後也沒有處理也沒有交辦所以我說這個事情你看從之前勞動部現一種職場霸凌的事件我們開始一直爆發我們整個行政體系職場霸凌的事情我說講啊人之將死其言也善啊"},{"start":639.758,"end":656.172,"text":"連我們顏惠心都已經在加護病房病他上提出辭呈而且很明確講辭職的原因就是因為在職場上在行政院和工作上遭受到"},{"start":657.533,"end":686.32,"text":"職場的霸凌已經講得很清楚了而且還是沒處理最後處理還是因為3月26號社群網站披露不用人交辦原來只要媒體披露自然調查小組就成立了所以這個申訴機制包含我們的行政院的最高行政首長也都沒處理試問我們民眾對政府公部門這個公信力怎麼會有信心"},{"start":689.315,"end":708.453,"text":"所以我希望喔 保訓會啊保訓會針對剛剛本席提的這些問題啊我們講啊 我們沒有超前部署也沒有及時處理我們只好退而求其次啊拜託 亡羊補牢總可以吧"},{"start":709.747,"end":729.985,"text":"希望後續針對我們剛剛講的這些文官體制這些後續研議它的方向跟你們要怎麼去做可不可以提出來怎麼去研議怎麼去改善我們這些申訴管道的機制你想想看12個委員7個內部聘的"},{"start":730.99,"end":757.817,"text":"五個聽起來很好聽外部專家學者但是這都是你決定要用誰就用誰啊連陳情到行政院長也沒處理我們這個申訴管道基本上我覺得漏洞百出所以難怪職場霸凌的問題層出不窮保訓會是不是後面可以給我們提出一個書面演繹如何去改善這個方向要怎麼去做"},{"start":759.414,"end":787.075,"text":"可以提出這書面報告嗎我希望這個事情我們一直講從去年勞動部發生到現在而且從勞動部發生之後我們才發現這個事情層出不窮而且每次都等到人往生之後才去檢討這件事情我說今天這個事情如果不是在3月26號社群網站披露"},{"start":787.836,"end":803.488,"text":"我們怎麼知道原來2月19號他的辭呈早就像行政院長說的清清楚楚但是根本連辦都沒有辦連處理都沒有處理連行政院都不知道這件事情是不是保訊會後面亡羊補牢吧"},{"start":806.141,"end":818.198,"text":"總委員報告一下就是行政院這個案子其實他是非因申訴而之襲那如果前面他收到包含像是社群媒體所接收到的資訊甚至是像行政院長收到的簡訊類似這一類的資訊"},{"start":821.381,"end":849.967,"text":"對於機關來說他還是必須要進行一部分的去認定啦所以我剛剛有講啦之後才會進到防護委員會處長我剛剛有講啦所以我剛剛為什麼說外部委員的成員的性質應該是沒有什麼關係啊所以我剛剛有講啦你看我們根據公務人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法這個防護委員會他裡面他規章召集人是我們機關的副首長跟幕僚長"},{"start":851.127,"end":878.324,"text":"可是很有可能這個召集人就是當裡面的關係人也有可能就是當事人再加上你另外就算聘的召集人也是他的下屬啊他怎麼去執行他是不是在調查過程中是不是還要回去請示他的長官可不可以這樣子調查然後12個委員會裡面7個都是你們自己人連另外唯一的5個還是由你們指定來聘任"},{"start":879.184,"end":907.046,"text":"哪裡來的公信力難怪現在這個霸凌事件層出不窮每次爆發都是人往生之後再來檢討我說啊從去年前年等等發生了那麼多事情勞動部霸凌事件就說要深切的檢討到現在也沒超前部署也沒有及時處理又要亡羊補牢所以我覺得保訓會希望你真的提出一個研議的方向跟改善的辦法"},{"start":909.226,"end":912.436,"text":"好謝謝好謝謝涂謙俊委員的發言待會兒陳穎委員質詢"}]}},{"id":"168152","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168152","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106ca0e043405b8b3f337570c8d4d2e9dc78994a069f48f295f331d4186e9443af555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"11:55:50 - 12:07:30","影片長度":"00:11:40","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:55:50+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:07:30+08:00","duration":700,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.59534375,"end":10.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.084093750000001,"end":11.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.247218750000002,"end":32.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.348468750000002,"end":20.972843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.190343750000004,"end":55.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.81971875,"end":86.75159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.25784375,"end":95.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.25221875000001,"end":101.98971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.39909375,"end":101.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.61409375000001,"end":104.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.58846875,"end":144.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.96784375,"end":107.42346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.94596875,"end":112.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.15846875,"end":129.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.78471875,"end":213.09471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.07971875,"end":174.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.60096875000002,"end":220.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.51971875,"end":222.78096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.48159375,"end":221.53221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.78096875000003,"end":222.79784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.83159375000002,"end":231.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.02846875,"end":252.78471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.59909375,"end":294.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.51846875,"end":255.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.72909375,"end":258.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.29784375,"end":263.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.02221875000004,"end":272.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.14034375,"end":272.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.32596875,"end":272.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.59096875,"end":278.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.98909375,"end":295.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.12409375000004,"end":298.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.15784375000004,"end":295.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.76909375,"end":333.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.50096875,"end":313.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.61784375,"end":322.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.63284375,"end":333.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.85221875,"end":333.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.93659375000004,"end":376.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.12971875,"end":340.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.14659375,"end":340.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.53471875,"end":340.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.50909375000003,"end":343.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.66284375000004,"end":358.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.35784375000003,"end":365.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.89221875000004,"end":412.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.50784375,"end":378.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.80221875,"end":384.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.27471875000003,"end":384.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.46846875,"end":387.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.72534375000004,"end":390.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.80096875000004,"end":393.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.45846875,"end":396.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.72784375000003,"end":400.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.76159375000003,"end":401.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.06346875,"end":416.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.01221875000005,"end":419.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.27346875,"end":421.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.31534375,"end":453.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.28409375,"end":432.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.52034375000005,"end":432.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.61659375000005,"end":438.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.74909375000004,"end":489.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.07346875,"end":457.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.94596875,"end":463.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.38909375000003,"end":490.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.09784375000004,"end":523.8984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.95284375000006,"end":500.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.88909375000003,"end":502.90596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.12534375,"end":503.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.39659375,"end":522.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.77596875,"end":528.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.3703437500001,"end":528.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.58971875,"end":530.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.60659375,"end":528.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.69909375,"end":532.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.4328437500001,"end":540.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.97596875,"end":543.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.4734687499999,"end":558.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.41659375,"end":556.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.39096875,"end":571.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.57221875,"end":560.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.0990937500001,"end":563.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.9922187500001,"end":572.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.4140937500001,"end":589.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.6159687500001,"end":576.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.7297187500001,"end":577.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.4497187500001,"end":587.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.6015937500001,"end":587.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.82096875,"end":587.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.1497187500001,"end":605.0165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.75284375,"end":591.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.1147187500001,"end":598.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.48596875,"end":598.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.67909375,"end":616.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.6940937500001,"end":617.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.91346875,"end":649.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.7934687500001,"end":628.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.8272187499999,"end":629.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.41784375,"end":629.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.9028437500001,"end":631.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.6184687500001,"end":642.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.20471875,"end":643.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.3059687500001,"end":643.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.37346875,"end":643.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.27534375,"end":662.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.55721875,"end":655.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.62471875,"end":655.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.8272187499999,"end":655.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.53096875,"end":661.5984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.61534375,"end":663.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.7922187500001,"end":665.0747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":665.7834687500001,"end":688.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.8684687500001,"end":699.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":688.90221875,"end":688.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.03721875,"end":691.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":693.81284375,"end":694.2178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.4153437500001,"end":699.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.15784375,"end":702.1997187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.48,"end":10.553,"text":"謝謝主席 我們先請勞動部洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":22.671,"end":41.737,"text":"在前幾天我們有特別提到就是在4月份我們即將就是開放家有12歲以下子女的這個家庭可以申請外籍幫佣那現在就是兒童節快到了那也蠻多家長有特別提到就是說我們"},{"start":43.678,"end":57.972,"text":"當孩子生病的時候家長可能把一年當中的市價、有薪價全部都用上了往往都還不夠因為孩子有時候常病毒"},{"start":59.594,"end":84.72,"text":"一請假可能就是在家可能就是一個禮拜兩個禮拜的這個時間那我想請教部長就是說我們當時我們現在4月份開始就是開放這個12歲以下的這個子女的家庭可以申請外籍幫佣那這個確實可以解決這個孩子們如果這個當生病的時候那這個"},{"start":88.203,"end":94.595,"text":"確實12歲以下在家裡面我們開放這樣的外籍幫傭是不是真的可以解決這樣的一個問題"},{"start":96.317,"end":119.108,"text":"跟委員說明其實剛剛委員講的情境是很多現在家長都會遇到的那這個情境裡面可能有包括緊急性的狀況臨時性的狀況有可能不是緊急性可是也還是希望減少負擔的部分所以我們其實有幾個相關的政策當然這個現在的外籍辦公的心智是其中一個"},{"start":119.648,"end":144.745,"text":"但如果剛剛委員在講的我們其實最新的這個讓育嬰留庭可以以日來請小孩三歲以前以日來請那三歲以前有30天平均每年有10天其實也可以支應剛剛剛剛委員講到的這樣的需求尤其是現在蠻多的家長都用這個以日來請來去來去因應就像小孩突然生病或腸病毒的這個做法那我們在數據上也看到使用的程度是蠻高的"},{"start":146.607,"end":161.748,"text":"確實現在還有很多家長一直在反應就是說孩子們一旦生病然後再加或者是這個班級這個幼兒園班級有人藏病毒然後就需要全班就是不能到學校嘛"},{"start":162.168,"end":180.091,"text":"那家長就會碰到類似這樣的一個狀況那我想這個部長可不可以建議可以去參考一下這個我們的鄰近國家像日本他們有一個這個病兒的保育然後我也想請教一下我們的這個衛福部次長"},{"start":181.172,"end":193.468,"text":"就是說鄰近國家有這樣子針對孩子們如果生病或者是因為班級有人傳病毒不能再到學校可能就一個禮拜兩個禮拜的時間"},{"start":196.672,"end":222.041,"text":"我們有沒有可能來發展成就是說家長可能他的假可能也都請完或者是可能也不適合請假或沒辦法請假的這個狀況那是不是有沒有去考慮一下就是病兒的這個保育這樣的一個制度來產生是不是有沒有可能把這樣的一個制度來長出來我是不是可以請教一下次長"},{"start":223.481,"end":250.84,"text":"非常感謝黃委員對這個問題的關心我們知道確實家長有這個需求但是我站在惠福部的立場我們就考慮兩件事第一個就是說小朋友確實抵抗力比較差那如果真的有這個狀況的話盡可能恐怕就是說這個托育人員跟醫護人員他的角色我們建議恐怕還是要分清楚就是說六種控制"},{"start":253.521,"end":277.709,"text":"當然一定要有醫生第一個就是帶到醫院現在目前的狀況可能就是家長自己照顧或是阿公阿嬤有的他本身就因為班級有人染腸病毒整個班級就沒辦法再到學校去那可能就是留在家裡面有的是爸爸媽媽自己請假或者是阿公阿嬤自己帶那類似這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":280.771,"end":296.989,"text":"有的家長可能我剛剛講的他的假可能都請完了確實也需要有人協助他我剛剛講的鄰近的國家有這樣的一個制度當然這個制度也不是那麼"},{"start":298.971,"end":321.352,"text":"就是不是那麼的完善總是會有人覺得說這個病兒的保育第一個尤其是在這個高峰期的時候比如說腸病毒的高峰期那這個可能也一味難求或者是這個制度或這個這種病兒保育的這樣的一個環境其實也不是每個地方都有"},{"start":322.233,"end":336.289,"text":"所以我在想說我們這個勞動部或衛福部有沒有可能就是說也可以參考鄰近的國家那有這樣的一個制度來產生是不是有可能呢好 包委員這樣好不好我覺得委員這個小部分"},{"start":337.27,"end":364.747,"text":"反正日本那邊也有這個案例我們是不是可以允許我們來研究好不好我們來待會研究也跟委員報告其實勞動部這邊也非常非常幫忙我們現在目前因應我們現在目前的整個這一個蛇睡以下的這個部分我們其實賴總統他也非常關心就是社會投資其實我們現在目前家庭都面臨轉型這裡面有很多都需要我們的整個托育還有我們的整個像我們現在目前衛福部也推出了育兒指導員"},{"start":365.867,"end":378.178,"text":"我想很多都相關的人力我們都會有一個老公部這邊會有一個計畫來讓我們的保姆他這邊能夠有多元的其實雙薪家庭確實碰到這樣的一個問題尤其是孩子如果生病的時候家裡面又沒有人可以幫忙的這確實會造成他蠻大的一個困擾是不是有可能"},{"start":388.246,"end":416.351,"text":"就是有這樣的一個制度來產生我覺得也可以去研究一下我們來研究好不好那接下來我想請教次長就是說其實我們都一直在擔心就是說少子化這個議題這個逐年這個我們的新生兒逐年一直在減少那你看到這個數字你會不會覺得很可怕去年是10萬出嘛那你今年預計我們的新生兒會有多少人"},{"start":417.331,"end":437.082,"text":"會不會比去年還要再少那如果是這樣子的話我覺得整個育兒環境如果沒有改善的話其實我覺得年輕人不婚不生的這個狀況我是覺得是會越來越嚴重所以我一直在講說這個少子化是這個國安的議題"},{"start":438.764,"end":452.461,"text":"確實我覺得我們政府應該要多花一些時間去研究去檢討把我們的育兒環境做好那我今天剛剛看到一則新聞就是高雄的一位市議員在質詢的說"},{"start":454.324,"end":463.112,"text":"質詢高雄市長就是說如果生第三胎送一棟房子怎麼樣想說這個是政府這個可能不是政府做的來的就是說我們應該針對少子化的這個部分怎麼樣讓我們的育兒環境更好"},{"start":470.439,"end":491.832,"text":"那政府就是要做好這個支援整個支持的背後的這個系統可能也要都要做好讓他能夠無後顧之憂他才敢婚敢生嘛其實我們在地方都會碰到很多類似我們這種年紀小孩可能也都是室溫年齡了然後那他們也會很擔心就是說"},{"start":492.632,"end":513.129,"text":"我們的下一代可能就是不想結婚那當然就是有結婚可能有這個生的這個機會就比較大那連結婚的這個念頭都沒有的話這我覺得真的是我們要好好去思考怎麼樣讓整個育兒環境能夠更好那今年的這個新生兒的比例會不會比去年又更少"},{"start":513.949,"end":531.704,"text":"我覺得這個真的是一個很嚴重的問題我覺得這個應該是勞動部跟或者是我們衛福部跨部會要去檢討的一個議題我們現在目前其實有一個少子女化計畫那我想這裡面其實可是我覺得成效不彰"},{"start":534.064,"end":557.556,"text":"我覺得成效不長 如果說真的有用的話不可能每一年的這個新生兒的比例是逐年再降低是 包委員所以也正因為這樣所以說其實總統他自己是要提出我們現在目前有提出了這一個奢侈以下我想這基本上也是希望能夠用多元的方式我們有報告其實全世界各國處理這個問題不外乎就三個策略就是給錢 給服務 還有給時間"},{"start":561.338,"end":588.31,"text":"給錢的話其實我們現在目前有育兒今天0到6歲然後給服務絕對我們現在目前在加強在推動我也要利用這個機會跟大家鄭重來講就是說我們的公托一定是加倍然後我們的整個家外送托比例現在32對不對我們會提高到36第三個其實最重要是給時間那勞動部這邊其實也已經有通過育嬰留庭論日還有我們家庭照顧假論時這個都是一些彈性化的措施我知道說"},{"start":590.211,"end":595.355,"text":"可能要不久,所以我們會加強我們現在目前會有一連串的一個方案當然站在主管機關,我們當然希望就是說不能夠再補了我是覺得今年這個數字可能會再往下掉"},{"start":610.445,"end":637.87,"text":"這確實真的很嚴重我覺得真的如果不花一些時間花一些預算在這上面我覺得這個真的對整個國家未來的競爭力確實是一個危機是一個危機所以我希望就是說因為也即將兒童節放年假大家都非常的開心我覺得政府應該要去想到怎麼樣讓我們的育兒環境能夠更好讓年輕人敢婚敢生"},{"start":639.19,"end":664.848,"text":"政府應該要投入更多的資源我覺得這一點當然就是說如果可以像那個有的民意代表提到那我是不是可以解決住的這個問題我覺得這個也是很棒啊只是說政府是不是有這個能力啊所以我認為就是說應該要投入更多的資源來解決這樣的一個少子女化的問題好不好真的要"},{"start":665.851,"end":689.041,"text":"多投入一些心思在上面要不然我覺得真的是還蠻嚴重的以前我們當民意代表的時候這個假日可能跑通話最多可能就是那個結婚喜宴那現在結婚喜宴一個月不到一次不到一場兩場真的很可怕所以我覺得真的政府要投入更多的資源在這上面真的是沒錯"},{"start":690.783,"end":697.172,"text":"我知道黃委員一直以來都非常關切這個問題我們這個也會回去跟院那邊來報告好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168151","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168151","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c3b0dcd7524819f07e62ad2ff7c694815994a069f48f295f30cc001442e8e29285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許智傑","委員發言時間":"11:57:57 - 12:08:17","影片長度":"00:10:20","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:57:57+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:08:17+08:00","duration":620,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4.72221875,"end":8.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.56971875,"end":9.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.51034375,"end":10.746593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.40471875,"end":12.535343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16.21409375,"end":16.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16.973468750000002,"end":19.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19.605968750000002,"end":22.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22.72784375,"end":23.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24.31409375,"end":31.047218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.996593750000002,"end":31.840343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":31.469093750000003,"end":33.274718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":33.93284375,"end":37.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":37.712843750000005,"end":40.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":40.48034375,"end":58.924718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":59.24534375,"end":63.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":64.44284375000001,"end":70.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":70.65284375,"end":73.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.96034375,"end":92.65784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.74221875,"end":94.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.15534375,"end":120.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.90659375000001,"end":132.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":132.80346875,"end":135.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.98471875,"end":134.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":136.26284375,"end":136.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.05596875,"end":137.71409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":137.71409375000002,"end":138.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.73096875000002,"end":137.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.76471875000001,"end":137.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.01784375,"end":138.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":138.50721875000002,"end":143.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":143.62034375000002,"end":149.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":149.89784375000002,"end":150.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":150.60659375,"end":153.35721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":153.61034375,"end":157.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":158.43659375000001,"end":164.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":164.32596875000002,"end":167.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.42721875,"end":164.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":167.53221875,"end":183.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":183.59721875000002,"end":207.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":207.32346875000002,"end":208.96034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":208.33596875,"end":208.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":208.89284375000003,"end":217.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":217.66784375,"end":242.22096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.22096875000003,"end":258.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":258.97784375000003,"end":265.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":265.60971875,"end":280.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.86471875,"end":283.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":284.27346875,"end":284.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":284.74596875000003,"end":286.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.43721875,"end":295.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.74846875000003,"end":296.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.16596875000005,"end":301.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.35096875,"end":304.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.81034375,"end":310.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":309.38346875,"end":314.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.55971875,"end":329.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.11034375,"end":331.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":332.08034375,"end":334.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.91971875,"end":335.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":335.74221875,"end":349.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.17096875000004,"end":346.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.42409375,"end":349.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":349.66409375,"end":353.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":354.10221875,"end":359.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":359.60346875000005,"end":361.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":361.71284375000005,"end":370.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":371.83784375000005,"end":372.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.10346875000005,"end":379.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.14034375,"end":403.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":403.54596875000004,"end":403.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.59659375,"end":404.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":404.05221875,"end":404.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.86221875,"end":404.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":404.89596875,"end":405.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":405.03096875,"end":409.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":407.25846875,"end":407.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":410.05971875,"end":415.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.13471875000005,"end":416.45534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":416.26971875000004,"end":416.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":416.28659375,"end":418.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":416.45534375000005,"end":416.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":419.08784375000005,"end":423.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":423.52596875,"end":429.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":430.98471875,"end":431.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":431.06909375000004,"end":435.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":432.38534375,"end":433.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":434.88284375,"end":440.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":441.07596875,"end":443.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":444.38346875,"end":461.20784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":461.78159375,"end":465.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":466.18596875000003,"end":471.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.07096875,"end":477.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.37409375000004,"end":511.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.09909375,"end":482.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":511.61346875000004,"end":528.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.2153437500001,"end":521.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":527.8134687500001,"end":530.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":528.89346875,"end":540.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":540.9422187499999,"end":549.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":547.2365937500001,"end":547.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":549.31221875,"end":549.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":549.39659375,"end":549.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":549.4978437500001,"end":549.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":549.6328437500001,"end":553.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":549.7509687500001,"end":549.9365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":553.9697187500001,"end":556.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":556.83846875,"end":556.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":556.9734687499999,"end":558.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":557.2097187500001,"end":558.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":560.07846875,"end":560.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":561.36096875,"end":566.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.8115937499999,"end":567.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":567.1997187500001,"end":577.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.25721875,"end":577.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":577.4428437500001,"end":594.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.1628437500001,"end":587.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.39909375,"end":587.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":594.4865937500001,"end":596.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":596.4272187500001,"end":596.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":598.4353437500001,"end":603.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":603.9197187500001,"end":606.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":605.9953437500001,"end":606.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":607.05846875,"end":617.8584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":611.6653437500001,"end":612.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":614.93909375,"end":616.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":617.8584687499999,"end":618.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":618.9553437500001,"end":620.2040937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.741,"end":12.258,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們請部長跟公路局長請陳部長請公路局局長"},{"start":16.263,"end":39.792,"text":"委員好部長好那個台86這個我有跟局長討論過了啦那就是說這整個我們的建設其實是非常的重要所以需要部長再給我們侃奉一下那就是說我們高雄東高雄就是往台南這邊以前都是走縣道"},{"start":41.372,"end":61.389,"text":"就是市道啦 現在是182那現在就是說我們需要說如果說台86可以銜接上的話對於東高雄從內門往台南這樣子的互動事實上非常的有幫助所以現在的進度就是說是不是請部長跟局長公開給我們砍縫一下預計"},{"start":66.152,"end":87.221,"text":"2028開始動工2034可以完工嗎這個部分是不是請那個局長先說明一下首先我跟委員報告一下就是說這個台86前面一段大概就是說跨過台16甲連接這個國道3號那委員講的是後半段就是說這個在過去跟這個182然後到這個屏東這個內門這個地方"},{"start":92.984,"end":112.119,"text":"那這個案子目前這個中規已經這個定案了那目前是在做這個環評的審查那環評審查的部分上次有一些意見我們是希望說在6月可以通過這個環評那6月通過環評我們希望這個就是說這個臨底可以提報這個"},{"start":113.74,"end":130.459,"text":"整個10層的規劃的話上次大概也跟委員這個報告大概前面一段因為前面一段那個現在建設計畫是在院裡面待這個核定那那個部分的預估完工時間是121年那後半段這個部分的話預計完工時間是122年"},{"start":133.888,"end":157.179,"text":"122年所以還有7年所以跟部長報告一下就是其實東高雄我一直在推動東高雄的觀光跟交通跟醫療的提升那就是說東高雄現在像我們內門現在那邊有個動物學校其實那個是那個"},{"start":158.817,"end":166.593,"text":"場景式的觀察而不是只是去看動物園它是去體驗所以東高雄包括我們的假日"},{"start":167.628,"end":191.3,"text":"就是包括內門動物學校 包括祁山老街 包括美濃客家文化甚至再到裡面茂林紫斑蝶等等的相關的寶萊的溫泉那這些其實可以做一個整體的套裝的規劃那當然這個我們也有跟公共署在要求說怎麼樣有機會把茂林國家風水區延伸到整個東高雄"},{"start":192.08,"end":208.765,"text":"那當然現在比較重要的就是說交通要先通暢就是說在這個台88這一條線其實對東高雄的發展非常的重要所以剛剛局長也有跟大家報告過也請部長能夠大力支持好 我們全力來推動 速度加快"},{"start":209.205,"end":225.706,"text":"那另外就是說包括這個有沒有機會台灣好行因為東高雄的觀光事實上它的交通真的是比較不容易比如說你如果要去寶萊的話可能你要到旗山轉運站再轉六龜再轉寶萊"},{"start":227.448,"end":241.804,"text":"那像這個一個溫泉特區如果有機會我們來開發的話就是說能夠讓這個交通先行才有辦法所以是不是請部長也指示署長跟局長重視我們這邊的交通跟觀光"},{"start":242.344,"end":264.682,"text":"是我們針對整體的交通,除了硬體建設之外,您剛剛所提到的公共運輸的部分,我們應該要來關注那台灣好行的路線,或許我們可以檢討一下,如果真的有這樣子的觀光的資源在那個地方,我們也希望說公共運輸可以到達我想這個是雞生蛋、蛋生雞的問題啦就是說目前就是說,當然他一直覺得還有提升的空間"},{"start":265.843,"end":285.545,"text":"那當然就是在地的整個設施要去加強之外,其實交通就是一個非常重要的路線所以是不是有機會就是說我們的台86之外,台灣好行這邊公路局可以先協助台灣好行應該是公共署這邊我們請公共署這邊來協助"},{"start":289.965,"end":314.469,"text":"謝謝委員提問 上次我們也有討論到這件事情確實在交通的部分 確實是能讓大家到的景點加上東高雄那相關的觀光資源也非常的豐富那這個部分我們現在是請報館處這邊一起在來提出申請跟所有相關的評估跟怎麼去做串聯 以上先做調查之前我提到有沒有可能把貿易國家貨幣區把東高雄通通納入"},{"start":316.216,"end":331.248,"text":"這個上次因為委員一直很關心這個項目 對不對那我們說這件事情要再跟高雄市政府還有屏東縣政府一起討論要由地方政府提出來然後這個才能進入到我們的程序裡面來"},{"start":332.129,"end":360.807,"text":"所以地方政府先提你們是後面地方政府要先提OK好那我再跟地方溝通一下謝謝好那這個東高雄就拜託那個署長跟局長多幫忙部長就盡量點頭就好好這個東高雄的支持很重要好那再來就是那個我們的那個交通交易園區這個也公路局也不簡單啦事實上台灣現在設了兩個地方嘛"},{"start":362.754,"end":372.352,"text":"北台灣在桃園那南台灣是在高雄我們鳳山監理所的所在地那這個已經做好了嘛還沒有啟用"},{"start":373.531,"end":397.974,"text":"是的原則上大概做好了那之前高雄區監獄所是試營運那最近大概我去看我跟我們曾經是有去看了一次那裡面有一些標線可能要再做一個調整那目前我是請局裡面的教官組再幫忙做一個調整那有些東西有這個脫落的部分我們重新再做一個處理完之後那我想"},{"start":398.755,"end":415.417,"text":"這個我們再規劃一個這個時間然後這個邀請委員一起來做這個邀請部長一起來不是 正式啟用一定會跟委員報告邀請委員的那個一起來參與我想在這個之前我希望說很多配套交通部可能也必須要思考"},{"start":416.358,"end":443.028,"text":"因為這個部分其實日本的教育你看日本的兒童過馬路都會舉手部長知道嗎是 我知道這個已經養成習慣你看台灣人小朋友過馬路有沒有都舉手比較沒有現在開始有一些小朋友會舉手所以這個就是從其實這個交通安全其實教育是從小慢慢的小時候走路再來"},{"start":444.914,"end":471.201,"text":"讀國中可能騎腳踏車吧再來騎摩托車這個其實你從小就培養這樣子一個教育的觀念交通教育的觀念這個對於整體這個是後面長久會影響的所以我是覺得我們這個交通公園是不是交通部有跟教育部有結合去思考一些怎麼樣去推動兒童交通教育而不是說這個設施做好了如果沒有跟教育部結合有可能去的人還是不多"},{"start":473.48,"end":492.787,"text":"跟我也報告一下目前大概就是因為美國交通公園所在還是有地域性這一個可及的一個課題所以目前大概就是說有我們在地譬如說像在桃園建立站的部分的話大概是新出所跟大桃園地區的一個幼稚園教學學校的教學來相結合"},{"start":493.627,"end":520.801,"text":"那目前在這個高雄區建議所的這個部分的話也是跟高雄大高雄地區來做這個部分的一個結合那剛剛委員所提到的我想局裡面這邊再來跟教育部相關單位就是說有一些中央比較一致性的原則的一個部分的話我們跟教育部再來做一個所以你們還沒跟教育部接觸像委員報告以桃園為案例我們不是跟教育部這邊來做接觸跟合作是跟地方的教育局"},{"start":521.341,"end":536.166,"text":"那地方的教育局他們就會找在地的例如說小學或者是幼兒園一起來這個園區裡面做交通案例所以現在有跟高雄市教育局聯絡了嗎那高雄的部分我們如果正式要啟動的時候也會跟地方的教育局來做合作那目前我看已經試辦了15場嘛要辦15場這15場應該也是有跟他們做聯繫"},{"start":541.168,"end":556.783,"text":"所以我是提醒就是我們交通部就是公務局這個要跟教育單位交通甚至市府也有交通局就是市政府的相關單位我們要動就一起動這樣子才會把那個效果發揮到最高好 謝謝最後那個"},{"start":564.53,"end":586.569,"text":"陰水法陰水法部長應該了解這個部分那個航港局也很幫忙就是說要發展我們地方高雄的遊艇觀光事實上這個也是在地的需求所以就是我們提出這個遊艇觀光就是飲水一千噸以下事實上你不用讓這個遊艇事實上他吃水很淺"},{"start":587.51,"end":595.795,"text":"所以這個部分我想我們也希望說交通部可以支持那航港局在這個交通安全的維護上有沒有什麼問題"},{"start":598.559,"end":619.608,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們會支持一千噸以下的這個遊艇外極遊艇不需要強制飲水這個部分我們會支持OK那這個就是希望說香港局跟交通部能夠盡力協助是好沒問題那包括那個安全的我認為也很重要可能要相關的配套要把它想好好謝謝委員OK好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168150","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168150","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c1d5a35136623c753e62ad2ff7c694815994a069f48f295f30cc001442e8e29285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"11:46:22 - 11:57:42","影片長度":"00:11:20","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:46:22+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:57:42+08:00","duration":680,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5.98784375,"end":8.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8.282843750000001,"end":10.223468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.316593750000003,"end":8.805968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10.290968750000001,"end":10.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15.015968750000003,"end":15.454718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15.84284375,"end":16.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17.344718750000002,"end":28.094093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":28.296593750000003,"end":40.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":40.83471875,"end":50.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":51.16221875,"end":56.393468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":57.28784375,"end":78.55034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.46596875,"end":107.84534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.46534375,"end":134.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":134.17034375,"end":137.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.56221875,"end":138.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":138.01784375,"end":138.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.96284375000002,"end":139.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":139.58721875,"end":174.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":174.55221875,"end":180.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":180.03659375,"end":201.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":202.80096875,"end":218.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":218.59596875000003,"end":218.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.95034375,"end":229.54784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.47596875000002,"end":235.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.09534375,"end":238.81221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.16659375,"end":242.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.38971875000001,"end":245.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.66346875000002,"end":247.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.75596875000002,"end":250.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":250.70909375000002,"end":256.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":257.12159375,"end":264.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.58471875000004,"end":264.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.88409375000003,"end":265.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":265.28909375,"end":274.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":275.32971875000004,"end":276.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":276.96659375,"end":276.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.11846875000003,"end":311.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":311.84721875,"end":324.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.00971875000005,"end":348.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.42784375,"end":371.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":372.81659375000004,"end":380.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.81534375,"end":382.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":381.20346875,"end":386.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":386.46846875,"end":388.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":393.28596875000005,"end":397.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":397.45409375,"end":398.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":398.26409375000003,"end":406.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":407.22471875,"end":420.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":421.21409375,"end":421.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":421.82159375000003,"end":435.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":435.03471875,"end":469.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":469.59471875,"end":481.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":480.93471875000006,"end":482.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":482.20034375000006,"end":483.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":483.02721875000003,"end":483.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":483.22971875,"end":483.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":483.31409375000004,"end":483.49971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":483.49971875000006,"end":483.56721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":483.56721875000005,"end":495.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":495.02534375000005,"end":517.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":517.67159375,"end":517.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":517.9753437500001,"end":532.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":532.36971875,"end":532.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":532.65659375,"end":550.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":550.66221875,"end":562.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":562.0359687499999,"end":562.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":563.45346875,"end":592.9678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":592.9678437499999,"end":605.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":605.97846875,"end":619.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":620.3559687500001,"end":639.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":639.81284375,"end":646.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":648.45284375,"end":651.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":651.1697187500001,"end":671.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":669.37784375,"end":670.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":671.9765937500001,"end":672.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":672.02721875,"end":672.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":672.9722187500001,"end":673.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":673.02284375,"end":673.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":673.9678437500002,"end":675.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":675.82409375,"end":676.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":675.85784375,"end":678.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":678.96284375,"end":682.62471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.413,"end":9.905,"text":"謝謝主席 有請我們陳部長請陳部長觀光署陳署長陳署長"},{"start":15.029,"end":39.821,"text":"委員好 部長好 署長部長我想這個還是要回歸到一個主要的一個政體我們目前的去年的總預算到目前為止已經兩百多天沒有審那我想這個對整個中央也好地方也好我想是一個很大的一個行政的一個衝擊那尤其我們很多的公務同仁我覺得他們都很緊張壓力也很大"},{"start":40.962,"end":55.953,"text":"那觀光署今年提出了這個觀光雙輪的一個驅動方案那有提出了這個針對平日的國旅的補助我想編列了23億元左右的一個預算那我想這個是一個很好的一個措施但是呢"},{"start":57.332,"end":85.311,"text":"部長你看一下這個幾個項目因為這個不是一個新增的一個獨立項目是我們講是一個延續性的一個計畫但是因為總預算沒有過的關係我想若說以我們目前的規範來講這個會不會有受到打折的一個影響那對你們這個推動上面是不是好像看得到吃不到會不會有這個狀況出現其實國人都相當的期待尤其是這個平日住宿的優惠國人期待那旅宿業者也期待"},{"start":85.971,"end":107.434,"text":"那生日的住宿優惠國人也相當相當期待您上面所列的每一樣都是國人很期待的那我們知道這個總預算沒過我們本來原定4月就要開始啟動這個平日住宿優惠的計畫也就停擺坦白講預算沒過我們就沒有辦法支應也沒辦法做那詳細的部分我是不是請署長來回答"},{"start":109.86,"end":133.503,"text":"謝謝委員關心這一題這個今年提出來這個方案確實是成業界跟民眾都非常的期待那也一直在持續詢問觀光署那最主要是這樣因為這個預算是編在觀光署的單位預算裡面那這個部分是觀光業務工作計畫向下但是因為超過去年的總執行數所以還是得要經過立法院預算審議才能動之"},{"start":134.444,"end":148.74,"text":"所以總之說如果沒有通過可能這個都還是會打折部長署長我想我還是要提一個想法因為我們今年至少有九個連續假期那尤其我們最近就是清明連假"},{"start":149.901,"end":173.716,"text":"那目前我知道恆春半島的訂房率大概已經有突破八九成當然是很好但是我認為我們不能去期待這個九個連假帶動整個國旅市場甚至對觀光業的這個衝擊我想還是很大那藉由這個平日的一個國旅的優惠我想我們一定要支持這個樣一個案子那這也是觀光業者的期待那"},{"start":174.897,"end":201.562,"text":"總預算沒有過但是我想我們還是應該要持續看想辦法怎麼樣來做處理不准願意支持這樣的一個說法嗎我們希望能夠往前推進啦那不過錢的部分沒有錢其實很難做事那這個部分委員的期待跟業者的期待我們都知道那如果可以提早啟動我們也希望能夠提早啟動那不過我們還是要呼籲立法院總預算要趕快過民眾的期待才有辦法真正的落實"},{"start":202.844,"end":229.324,"text":"那我想總預算沒有過我也很擔心我們屏東縣幾個重大的交通建設受到影響那所以我還是要請教一下部長部長第一個高鐵南延屏東的部分今年原本預定今年的六快車站暫停的遷移會不會受到影響向委員報告我們目前正在趕緊加緊腳步在處理這件事情那不過預算的部分有沒有影響到這件事我是不是請局長來回答一下"},{"start":230.769,"end":249.885,"text":"六塊錯這個計畫我們現在優先爭取行政院來做核定如果核定的話因為去年並沒有編這個六塊錯計畫在115年的預算裡面但我們可以透過公建計畫的相關的運資來去做處理我想現在優先的目標還是要爭取核定"},{"start":250.842,"end":276.57,"text":"我想這個我們要加快速度啦要不然這個目前我們的規劃是2039年通車嘛如果因為這樣今天沒辦法動工 暫停沒辦法動工是不是氣程要往後延 這個我們非常非常的擔心啦所以我們要加快氣程那第二個就是高屏二快那我想這一次高屏二快也是預計要今年要動用的一個重要的一個交通項目部長 那這個案子目前的進度我是不是請局長來回答"},{"start":277.17,"end":302.532,"text":"跟委員報告一下高屏二塊的部分的話目前在做稀釋那原則上大概以這個屏東段為優先那有關於這個第一個優先標的部分就是台山這個交流道的部分的話大概我們四月上旬可以把稀釋這個經費報工程會來做一個這個審議那原則上是希望就是說九月可以來這個動工但是我這邊也跟委員報告一下"},{"start":303.052,"end":323.583,"text":"因為高屏二塊是新鮮計畫也會可能也就是說我們也希望說後面這個預算審查要趕快做一個處理那另外就是我們屏南鄉新最關心的屏南快速道路那我知道我們最近公務局也加快角度已經在開環評的一個說明會啦那這個期程能不能再提早因為大家都說當時有顧問"},{"start":325.426,"end":348.219,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分的這個期整的話大概上次大概有跟委員報告過就是說有關於這個一階環評已經過了那現在這個就是說環境部在審二階環評這個範疇界定的部分那我們上次是有一些意見我們五月希望說二階環評這個範疇的部分能夠趕快把它審定我們後面來做"},{"start":349.84,"end":367.084,"text":"一個啟動那原則上後面順利的話我們是希望大概就是說期程可以這個加速縮減一年半到這兩年大概目前整個時程推出出來的部分的話大概原則上順利的話我們是希望說在117年能夠通過這個環評然後趕快提報經濟計畫報這個行政院"},{"start":372.827,"end":387.684,"text":"好 那我想這個也是我們這個屏南鄉親最關切的這個翻斷事工的部分我想要同步來進行好 那我想最後針對這個台鐵的部分我請一下鄭董事長部長跟署長請回 謝謝"},{"start":393.491,"end":420.181,"text":"董事長這個有兩個案子我想還是要麻煩董事長關注一下第一個就是去年12月我們有一位屏東的一個鄉親也是我們的同仁在花蓮車站被這個貨車擰過不治身亡那我知道董事長有特別去關心家屬那因為家屬前兩天有來找我到目前為止我們整個事故的調查跟檢查的報告他們都還沒有看到"},{"start":422.378,"end":441.451,"text":"這個董事長我想這是一個年輕的生命也是我們這個很多年輕的同仁在這個工作上面職場上面很注視的一個案件這部分報告什麼時候可以出爐是這個根本報告其實上那個治安署他們那個調查報告已經出來了他3月27號的已經"},{"start":443.432,"end":468.081,"text":"把這個檢查報告給我們公司那結論就是說這個整個發生的事情的責任我們這個同仁嚴同仁他是沒有責任的所以在這個情況之下就是說在他這個撫恤方面我們就趕快的我們在昨天3月31號已經把這個吻送到我們全序部去所以應該"},{"start":469.781,"end":494.833,"text":"我們除了原來的這些我們公司的慰問金保險金都已經付給他以後這個我現在很關心的就是說這個撫恤的部分的話讓我們應該很快會有走路用因公的部分來處理是的是的是的那董事長我還是要了解一下那針對事故發生我們相關的檢討裡面我們的人員的部分跟現場的作業的部分有沒有什麼樣的問題是需要改善的"},{"start":495.353,"end":516.644,"text":"是的,我們針對一些可能的風險,因為他像這位同仁他是因為很不幸,就是他在吊車的過程裡面,在一個背帶,被一些資金的支架勾到,最後就吊在地上,像這個的話,我們公司已經做了一個修正的安排。"},{"start":518.045,"end":541.101,"text":"我想這個我們的家長他其實來跟我談這個事情的時候他並不是要責怪我們的同仁他只是希望董事長我要轉達他的心聲給董事長知道以希望這樣的憾事不要再發生不要再有同仁因為這樣的現場事故有一個年輕的生命更沒意了那所以我想前幾次的委員會我有特別跟董事長提到說"},{"start":542.342,"end":560.71,"text":"現在我們這個人力短缺跟薪資結構已經比不上其他的國營事業我想 董事長這是很嚴重的問題我們的年輕的同仁不願意待在台鐵那未來連甚至很多我們屏東的鄉親現在分化在東部的 北部的都調步回來這是怎麼安居樂業 董事長這個問題到底有檢討嗎"},{"start":564.354,"end":590.795,"text":"確實啦這個人力的問題是在台鐵也是一樣遭遇到這個問題尤其在這個吊車的事情這個又複雜度比較高所以有很多但是呢公司能夠做的就是我們除了改善整個環境包括我們檢討我們SOP譬如說我們如果是車動人就不動這樣的一個要求我們會落實那減少這樣的一個不幸的事情發生"},{"start":592.616,"end":619.538,"text":"總統最後一個問題 這一分鐘不好意思我想我要幫我們的這個長輩來請命一下當初這個我之前有跟你提過我們現在屏東縣的敬老卡我們有每個月一千塊的額度那我們的鄉親他有的時候要去坐火車去高雄台南甚至去東部他們現在只能不能坐對號的一個車子只能說刷那個路卡但是非常非常的不方便"},{"start":620.719,"end":644.327,"text":"我認為這是對你們來講是一個很大的一個商機所以我有請你們研究結果你們跟我說回應的部分是說更改這個相關的設備總共要花六千兩百萬是的而且你們是希望地方政府來分攤這實在是很不得力的啦甚至你們在賺錢這樣叫地方政府來分攤很不得力的董事長我覺得花六千兩百萬可以帶給台鐵幾百億的商機為什麼你不做這部分有什麼困難"},{"start":649.07,"end":664.138,"text":"這個跟委員報告確實因為改這個系統而且是所有的公司所有地方政府他可能他的這個社福卡跟台鐵要連接的話其實系統都要改所以這一部分的話這個發射這個錢"},{"start":665.979,"end":679.988,"text":"那我們希望說呢 這個當然還是要地方政府這邊因為我們的冰湯的大眾交通工具還是不普及啦所以這部分還是要拜託一下來客錄一下啦 好不好 謝謝我們還是希望說這個財源如果有問題有的話我們也會全力來配合辦理啦"}]}},{"id":"168149","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168149","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106ce61ad26bb31cb666e62ad2ff7c694815994a069f48f295f30cc001442e8e29285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱若華","委員發言時間":"11:36:24 - 11:46:11","影片長度":"00:09:47","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:36:24+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:46:11+08:00","duration":587,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.1697187500000004,"end":3.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.8953437500000003,"end":5.9372187499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.308468750000001,"end":8.164718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.04221875,"end":10.442843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.712843750000001,"end":11.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.450968750000001,"end":14.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.328468750000003,"end":17.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.99909375,"end":15.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.93909375,"end":27.942218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.27659375,"end":21.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.39784375,"end":30.473468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.92909375,"end":52.377218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.63284375,"end":36.869093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.61346875,"end":66.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.32846875,"end":73.08284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.38659375,"end":76.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.03159375,"end":81.73971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":82.54971875000001,"end":95.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.63721875,"end":89.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.48846875000001,"end":102.78284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.77034375000001,"end":104.08221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.04846875000001,"end":111.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.96721875,"end":113.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.24534375,"end":122.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.27034375000001,"end":115.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":123.30284375000001,"end":127.43721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.58909375,"end":138.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.25409375,"end":147.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":141.88221875000002,"end":142.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":147.65346875,"end":149.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.57721875000001,"end":150.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":150.38721875000002,"end":150.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":150.48846875,"end":150.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":150.57284375,"end":151.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.12534375,"end":152.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.78346875,"end":155.01096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.18846875,"end":166.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.70534375,"end":168.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.74721875,"end":172.22346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.45971875,"end":172.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.51034375,"end":172.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.54409375,"end":174.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.32846875,"end":181.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.62284375000002,"end":187.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.47846875000002,"end":190.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.39784375000002,"end":197.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":197.75534375,"end":202.22721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.61971875,"end":201.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":202.86846875,"end":208.55534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.22221875000002,"end":218.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.11909375000002,"end":220.67159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.77284375000002,"end":226.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.54409375,"end":231.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":231.52221875,"end":232.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":236.85471875000002,"end":236.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":236.97284375,"end":237.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.02346875,"end":237.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":237.19221875000002,"end":237.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.36096875,"end":250.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":251.53596875000002,"end":273.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.16159375,"end":281.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.89409375,"end":287.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.96909375,"end":289.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":288.07034375,"end":317.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.22596875,"end":337.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":322.44471875,"end":322.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":338.88096875,"end":342.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.45409375,"end":354.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":344.58471875000004,"end":345.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.92909375000005,"end":359.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":359.58659375,"end":373.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.84596875,"end":387.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.81409375000004,"end":389.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.23159375,"end":391.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.95284375,"end":393.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":391.96971875,"end":395.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.52221875000004,"end":393.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.53909375,"end":393.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.57284375,"end":393.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.58971875000003,"end":394.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.64846875,"end":395.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":395.66534375000003,"end":396.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.10409375,"end":396.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.30659375000005,"end":406.36409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.80284375,"end":438.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.83596875,"end":440.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.68784375,"end":450.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.77909375,"end":460.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.99784375,"end":455.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.46534375000005,"end":486.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.70596875,"end":504.59346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.72284375000004,"end":487.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.16159375,"end":487.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.57909375,"end":488.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.05096875000004,"end":493.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.94784375000006,"end":506.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.73659375000005,"end":512.1028437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.2547187499999,"end":525.4678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":526.04159375,"end":526.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":526.88534375,"end":528.5053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.18471875,"end":536.8584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":534.4453437500001,"end":534.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.1453437499999,"end":566.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.51534375,"end":546.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.2478437500001,"end":556.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.1497187500001,"end":563.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.57534375,"end":573.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.50284375,"end":578.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.53971875,"end":583.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.72471875,"end":582.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":582.9778437500001,"end":583.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.1297187499999,"end":583.8047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":583.60221875,"end":583.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":583.8047187500001,"end":583.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":584.58096875,"end":587.3315937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.157,"end":10.96,"text":"謝謝主席 主席先請台灣高鐵池澤董事長我們請高鐵總經理我們請總經理"},{"start":21.393,"end":36.367,"text":"總經理好 那今天要跟你討論的是剛才稍早稍微今天也有提出關心嘛就是那本席這邊有看到2025年高鐵的全年運量是8207萬人次那高鐵平均每日的運量是也有高達22萬人次嘛"},{"start":36.967,"end":60.041,"text":"我們最近也看到國際機場2026年它最新的入境人數是418萬出境也有432萬春節連假當日也超過16萬人次228的連假也有15萬人次不管是通勤還是前往桃園機場很多民眾都是選擇搭乘高鐵列車搭行行李方式空間不足的問題長期也普遍存在著民怨"},{"start":60.601,"end":81.537,"text":"那尤其是在連續假期還有國際觀光復甦後還有桃園機場往返的旅客嘛那民眾他攜帶28吋以上的行李箱那場面臨沒有地方可以放載用總道也影響了動線那很多乘客也反映嘛大型行李區被小型行李站住那想請問高鐵那現在能放的行李件數有多少"},{"start":83.111,"end":99.326,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們現在舊的車原來是35我們已經增加到45了目前來講我們在新車還沒導致之前新車可以到100、110我們舊車準備要改到80現在目前正在進行準備要改到80什麼時候可以改到80"},{"start":104.35,"end":122.117,"text":"我們預計在今年年底看能不能蓋完因為現在目前來講我們車子只能利用非健康時段才能夠現在很明顯的就是已經不符合旅運的需求了嘛那單日也有六到七萬人次就是搭乘台灣高鐵那你們有沒有去住過機場旅客攜帶大型行李的比例"},{"start":124.206,"end":150.189,"text":"這個分析我們自己是有分析那目前來講其實我們現在目前最大的問題是很多的旅客的行李28吋都把它放在那個行李架裡面那這一部分我們在行李架其實我們都有貼標示在我看到今年你們也有公告嗎就是小型行李應該要放在座位的上方然後行李不得載用走道車門那你們有沒有再去做宣傳跟教育民眾呢有有有這個都有在公布那效果如何"},{"start":150.709,"end":171.969,"text":"效果還是平均現象因為我看到你們今年二月份在臉書上面的宣導上面的按讚數一百四十二個留言數三折分享的次數是七次那總共的觀看次數是八千五百四十九次那面對每天都有那麼多民眾搭乘高鐵那我們這邊要怎麼來去提升再加強宣導呢"},{"start":172.609,"end":197.385,"text":"我們其實我們現場現場我們就有有那個是要保全嗎還有我們的列車長胡靖遠其實有看到這種情況的時候也會會陷倒所以我搭乘的時候有碰過這樣的問題嗎那變成就是說他們小型行李那變成說列車的乘務員他們還要再去找旅客看就是大型行李他們已經沒有地方放了放在座位前面他們還要再告訴民眾去放到大型行李放置處可是問題就是沒有地方放"},{"start":198.226,"end":201.917,"text":"我們從4月1號以後我們在車上有一個就是"},{"start":202.915,"end":229.977,"text":"那個QR Code就是有需要列車長服務的時候就可以透過那個QR Code 因為我還要上去你們的APP上面看嘛那你們APP上面確實是沒有在做宣導這一塊那臉書上面那明顯的這個宣傳效果也沒有很好那是不是還可以透過其他的方式所以今天向高鐵了解可以 這部分我們會再加強那再請加強教育跟宣導民眾讓民眾就是不要把小型行李一上車就放置在大型行李的放置處那這邊再請我們交通部陳部長好 請陳部長"},{"start":236.86,"end":248.259,"text":"委員好 部長好 部長在上週3月26號行政院會 桃園市的蘇俊斌副市長他有特別提出防狼三件之子 當前的脫掉蟑螂橫行那關於脫掉蟑螂 部長您怎麼看"},{"start":251.938,"end":272.132,"text":"對 報告委員這是非常不好的一個行為啦那過去在我們的這個高速公路也曾經發生過類似的問題所以這幾年我們在高速公路也好或者是省道也好我們都已經有一個比較標準化的定型化契約在執行那我認為那是很好的範例所以我們交通部也決定說要來協助所有的地方趕快來修訂這個定型化契約"},{"start":282.318,"end":308.494,"text":"不得記載事項並希望能夠建立全國統一的收費標準部長這項工作將會如何是可以完成這個不一定有辦法全國制定一個統一的標準因為每個地方的成本不一定一樣但是我們希望每個地方政府都可以訂定出適合他們當地的一個收費標準我們昨天已經開了第一次會議就是全國各縣市大家一起來開這個會議以我們高速公路跟公路總局"},{"start":308.874,"end":336.753,"text":"他們審到上面的這個定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項的這個範例來做一個推演我們希望各縣市都能夠定出來因為現在消費者遇到這樣的糾紛那只能去尋求消保官嘛那地方政府也遇到這樣的問題那所以蘇俊斌副市長他特別提到嘛那包括要修改消保法然後賦予執法人員讓他們可以盡以裁罰的權利那交通部有沒有針對這個跟內政部然後還有其他相關的部會討論"},{"start":339.191,"end":359,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們目前應該還沒有跟他們來做溝通那希望可以針對這一點交通部就是跟其他部會一起進行討論因為目前熱線室的消防官他們只能獨自的去面對特殊背景的業者嘛那所以希望部長您提到就是全國統一有一個困難那是不是可以透過修法呢"},{"start":359.819,"end":387.271,"text":"修法的部分我們會先匯集大家地方政府大家的意見我們在昨天有開過會議了或許已經有些意見的整合那如果有需要我們交通部這邊來協助去溝通其他部會那我們也嘗試看看來做溝通因為現在就是沒有明確的收費的基準所以法院跟消防官他就沒有辦法去認定業者是否有涉及暴力所以我這邊我也提出希望交通部可以比照我們是希望是不是可以比照"},{"start":390.318,"end":405.951,"text":"快速道路跟高速公路的救援標準跟委員報告昨天其實我們大概都有找地方政府來做一個討論那我們也有告訴地方政府說為什麼我們沒有辦法訂一個統一的標準"},{"start":406.852,"end":436.161,"text":"因為每個地方的特性真的差異很大那我們訂那個應記載不得記載事項的目的呢就是希望說地方政府能夠依照他的特性來訂定不同的一個收費標準然後來做他後續執法的一個依據那另外在那個那個消保法裡面其實對於只要有違規的部分其實現在的處分就已經甚至已經可以到停業的部分所以這個部分消保法已經有一個"},{"start":437.262,"end":460.199,"text":"規範可以做出因為前面一段都是要求他們限期改善嘛限期改善不完成的話也是可以去做停止他的產品的一個規定就是簡單說就是他必須做停業的動作那我們也如果說他被其實在這個停業動作之前他們都已經不知道坑殺了多少民眾了嘛那我們這邊是不是那我們拖掉收費的指引呢是不是能夠落實一個定型化契約"},{"start":461.219,"end":486.92,"text":"因為我們因記載不得記載事項裡面就會有包括所有的項目就是說哪些可以收費的項目我們都會訂在裡面那超出這些項目的部分就不能去收費那昨天當然有一番討論大概大家有不同的意見我們還會持續收集大家的意見就項目的部分會再去因記載不得記載事項裡面再做一些訂定跟釐定那超出這些項目的部分原則上就是不能再去"},{"start":487.5,"end":514.369,"text":"召開第一次會議那我這邊後續也會持續關心那這邊好那也請部長重視這個問題那部長接著請教那麼談到桃園國際機場那最新的雅虎民調它有顯示超過六成的民眾都支持機場開放多元計程車那在數位轉型之下呢那日本的成田機場韓國仁川機場還有新加坡的仗義機場他們都已經提供了多元的接送選擇民眾可以用APP來叫車"},{"start":515.009,"end":541.13,"text":"那交通部目前規劃是一一六年要在松山還有小港機場事辦可是旅運量最大的桃園機場卻沒有在事辦名單那什麼時候可以納入桃園機場是請局長先跟委員報告有關這個開放事辦那因為每個機場特性不同因為譬如說松山機場它位在市區那高雄地區的話高雄機場因為它對於南部台南等等的"},{"start":541.61,"end":561.522,"text":"那有一些需求那桃園機場其實它本身有自立委員會那你們要試辦之前都有進行過評估嗎基本上我們內部有先評估一下那可是因為這是一個試辦計畫所以我們是認為說是先從高雄機場來先試辦那各自的評估條件可能桃機公司這邊也可以再進一步評估這個部分"},{"start":563.243,"end":583.582,"text":"那我們初步在做的時候 基本上法規是可以容納每個機場根據他的需求去做不同的事辦計畫那希望過去也可以拿到桃園機場然後你們也去針對桃園機場來做一個評估報告好不好好 這個部分我們就再跟桃機來一起討論好 非常感謝邱若驊委員"}]}},{"id":"168148","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168148","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106ce23bb6f62559d756e62ad2ff7c694815994a069f48f295f31128cb8e9f3039315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳雪生","委員發言時間":"11:25:21 - 11:36:10","影片長度":"00:10:49","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:25:21+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:36:10+08:00","duration":649,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.63784375,"end":5.599718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.810343750000001,"end":9.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.18971875,"end":11.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.602843750000002,"end":14.459093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.184718750000002,"end":15.437843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.68659375,"end":17.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.01971875,"end":19.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.46659375,"end":22.356593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.84596875,"end":23.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.55034375,"end":26.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.997218750000002,"end":27.047843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.047843750000002,"end":27.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.21659375,"end":27.840968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.37659375,"end":31.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.384093750000005,"end":35.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.75534375,"end":36.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.44284375,"end":39.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.48034375,"end":41.492843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.56034375,"end":44.040968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.040968750000005,"end":44.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.74971875,"end":44.783468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.783468750000004,"end":46.470968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.92659375,"end":47.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.52971875,"end":53.929718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.45284375000001,"end":55.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.32596875,"end":57.102218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.28784375,"end":58.890968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.23284375,"end":60.03846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.32534375,"end":64.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.67534375,"end":63.565343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.69596875,"end":65.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.97846875,"end":67.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.14284375,"end":85.31721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.39909375,"end":75.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.89659375000001,"end":77.31846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.72721875,"end":80.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.70534375000001,"end":89.97471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.97471875000001,"end":96.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.97784375,"end":98.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.85096875,"end":105.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.72346875000001,"end":105.80346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.97221875000001,"end":107.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.43596875,"end":108.45284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.45284375000001,"end":110.14034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":110.51159375,"end":111.47346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.99596875,"end":116.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.02971875,"end":117.95346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":118.47659375,"end":126.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.47221875000001,"end":120.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.42909375,"end":126.47534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.47534375000001,"end":126.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.96471875,"end":128.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.37784375,"end":130.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.08221875,"end":137.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":136.26284375,"end":138.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.86596875,"end":139.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.26221875000002,"end":141.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.75971875000002,"end":144.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.79721875,"end":149.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.35346875000002,"end":156.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.00221875,"end":158.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.56721875000002,"end":160.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.67659375000002,"end":162.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.68471875,"end":164.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.98409375,"end":167.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.34221875,"end":170.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.85659375,"end":172.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.20221875000001,"end":174.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.04159375,"end":178.53471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.05784375000002,"end":181.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.55534375000002,"end":184.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.33534375000002,"end":189.21659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":185.75721875000002,"end":186.97221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.97221875000002,"end":187.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.07721875000001,"end":192.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.86159375000003,"end":196.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.96221875,"end":199.66221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.15159375000002,"end":202.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.91471875000002,"end":205.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.59784375,"end":207.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.08284375000002,"end":210.56346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":210.56346875000003,"end":210.59721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.60971875,"end":211.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":211.62659375,"end":212.67284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":213.04409375,"end":221.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.20721875,"end":224.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.53596875000002,"end":228.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.31596875000002,"end":229.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.54346875000002,"end":233.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.27721875,"end":243.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.84096875,"end":247.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":247.55346875,"end":249.35909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.85721875000002,"end":260.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.39096875,"end":262.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.34409375,"end":264.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.56284375,"end":269.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.71034375,"end":270.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.00971875,"end":271.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.91659375,"end":274.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.54909375,"end":277.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":277.97909375,"end":277.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.99596875000003,"end":280.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.08409375,"end":281.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.85596875000005,"end":285.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.92346875000004,"end":284.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.15534375000004,"end":284.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.85971875,"end":286.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.73284375000003,"end":289.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.04034375000003,"end":292.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.41971875,"end":295.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.93409375000005,"end":296.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.08159375,"end":297.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.94221875,"end":300.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.74346875000003,"end":303.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.73034375000003,"end":305.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.80596875000003,"end":307.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.83096875,"end":308.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.28221875,"end":310.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.95284375,"end":313.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.64846875,"end":316.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.85909375,"end":319.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.77846875,"end":320.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.60096875,"end":323.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.81159375000004,"end":324.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.49909375000004,"end":327.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.55346875000004,"end":331.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.65846875,"end":333.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.90284375000005,"end":336.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.27784375000005,"end":339.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.89346875,"end":340.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.48409375,"end":341.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.52596875,"end":344.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.88846875,"end":346.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.74034375,"end":349.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":349.86659375000005,"end":349.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":350.55846875000003,"end":376.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.79909375,"end":380.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.55346875000004,"end":392.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.57721875000004,"end":393.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.02846875,"end":398.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.90534375000004,"end":400.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.74471875,"end":418.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.36221875,"end":419.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.44221875000005,"end":424.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.24721875,"end":427.87971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.50409375000004,"end":429.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.92596875000004,"end":431.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.46971875,"end":433.81971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.79846875000004,"end":438.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.79784375,"end":440.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.14346875,"end":446.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.81346875,"end":448.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.31096875000003,"end":454.39034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.20534375000005,"end":450.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.45846875,"end":450.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":454.94721875000005,"end":463.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.72221875,"end":467.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.16034375000004,"end":470.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":469.93221875,"end":470.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.89409375,"end":475.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.27346875,"end":475.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.53471875,"end":475.93971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.09159375,"end":477.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.42034375000003,"end":481.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.08221875000004,"end":483.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.63034375,"end":487.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.12346875000003,"end":491.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.15659375,"end":495.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.40909375,"end":497.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.82221875000005,"end":501.35346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.06221875000006,"end":505.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.73659375000005,"end":510.11159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":511.12409375000004,"end":513.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.29659375,"end":517.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":517.0303437499999,"end":524.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.70034375,"end":524.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.6072187500001,"end":524.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.7084687500001,"end":526.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.77596875,"end":525.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.22721875,"end":533.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":526.2947187500001,"end":526.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.3484687499999,"end":534.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.06971875,"end":535.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.79096875,"end":538.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":538.8328437499999,"end":539.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.13221875,"end":540.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.56659375,"end":543.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.0134687500001,"end":546.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.86534375,"end":549.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":549.10971875,"end":549.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":549.9365937499999,"end":549.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.95346875,"end":550.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":549.97034375,"end":554.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.69159375,"end":553.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.0034687500001,"end":554.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.91471875,"end":557.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.3403437500001,"end":562.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.3859687500001,"end":565.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.3728437500001,"end":568.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.98409375,"end":570.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.7053437500001,"end":574.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.4853437500001,"end":576.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.1853437500001,"end":580.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.93596875,"end":582.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.01159375,"end":584.9184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.4584687500001,"end":586.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.99409375,"end":588.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.06971875,"end":591.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":591.04409375,"end":591.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.8203437500001,"end":593.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.03096875,"end":595.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.6340937500001,"end":597.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.08096875,"end":599.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.6965937500001,"end":601.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.84409375,"end":604.7803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.1853437500001,"end":608.8640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.15096875,"end":615.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":614.63534375,"end":628.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.4622187500001,"end":616.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.9622187500001,"end":629.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.16034375,"end":633.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.9740937500001,"end":640.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.89784375,"end":635.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":635.91471875,"end":636.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.6909687500001,"end":636.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":636.72471875,"end":636.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.9609687500001,"end":637.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.23034375,"end":644.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.1584687500001,"end":642.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.1328437500001,"end":644.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.5378437500001,"end":646.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.5290937500001,"end":649.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":646.8159687500001,"end":647.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.2334687499999,"end":648.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.87471875,"end":649.4990937499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.653,"end":13.156,"text":"好,謝謝主席中華郵政王董有來嗎?老部長向你請安,沒事中華郵政簡董中華電信簡董來,請你上來一下不要偷懶,跑步跑一下"},{"start":35.847,"end":63.822,"text":"主席謝謝簡董那個二號海欄又斷了是不是三號二號已經斷了五月底會修好什麼時候修好五月底會不會有影響通訊馬祖的通訊沒有影響因為二號三號因為三號現在還活著三號活著對二號斷了二號老到牙了嘛二號已經快二十年了"},{"start":64.773,"end":90.937,"text":"快90歲了沒問題吧現在現在通訊沒問題那縱使3號是前兩天因為施工又弄了一些沒有斷沒斷24星有12星弄障礙還12星還通著所以現在馬祖的通訊沒問題那縱使2號3號都斷了我們微波12.6G還可以啟動目前是沒有啟動好啦好啦好啦這個注意一下好不好"},{"start":91.617,"end":111.147,"text":"不要我們老太太、老先生帶著孫子到你們中華電力門口去排隊等啊因為只有那邊才收得到訊號啊是是那跟委員報告四號海欄應該六月底如果順利六月底會在我知道我知道,謝謝你辛苦了主席是不是請交通部陳部長我們請陳部長委員好好久沒見了"},{"start":118.93,"end":141.134,"text":"不會啦有沒有一點想念嗎?前兩個禮拜才去您辦公室有來嗎?有,我有去我前兩週才去您辦公室大橋?是大橋還是幫我們注意一下好不好?預算?有,一直都在追蹤那如果有新的進度,我也會向你們報告我前幾天打電話給您聽說院長要去馬祖我們縣長知道院長要去馬祖"},{"start":146.374,"end":173.814,"text":"沒有接到說要請他吃飯來幹什麼餐廳有訂因為他在馬祖堡幹什麼我全部都會知道的啦對不對不要警察知道也不要國安系統我本人就是國安系統我幾乎都會知道的也沒邀請我去啊也沒邀請我去他邀請我就會去,不要邀請我就不去我覺得這是一個尊重的問題嘛我也打電話去院長辦公室院長辦公室說"},{"start":175.1,"end":202.307,"text":"有通知你就有通知你,沒通知你就沒通知你,我說好反正現在院長總統都很大我們小老百姓,請你幫我轉告好不好以前再也是好朋友,現在再吵了反而變成一定要臉紅脖子粗嗎是不是我也沒砍你預算,也沒罵過你本人,也沒罵過你交通部也沒砍過你交通預算對不對那你已經七年了,大小的預算不給我"},{"start":203.956,"end":221.276,"text":"你看誰有人好惹的話你就惹一下嘛我沒意見現在跟你談親民廉價輸運都準備好了沒有報告委員其實我們全國的輸運計畫都已經準備好了那您所提的航空跟海運的部分我們也都準備好了"},{"start":222.25,"end":243.124,"text":"不過你們ABC計畫每一次,尤其對離島,你們準備的是非常的周到啦尤其軍方啊,軍方那個西凹山洞他們現在更配合的非常的好只要民防局有公文到國防部去,他們速度都很快這一點請您啊"},{"start":244.045,"end":264.829,"text":"交通部這邊也花點公關費,有時候跟人家也要參敘一下慰問人家的辛勞我們該做的,我們縣政府也會做好不好我們不會失禮啦好不好清明這個書記的事情請您拜託一下好沒問題這個時候請民防局我們何局長上來好不好何局長請何局長部長你了解"},{"start":272.947,"end":281.431,"text":"W-8跟W-2空中航線的因果關係嗎?你瞭解嗎?W-2跟W-8跟軍方有關係最近我發現這個整個的航道從去年12月到1、2、3"},{"start":295.987,"end":318.894,"text":"以前我們,當然我們主航道是W2,副航道是W8那麼這四個月,以前都是99%飛W8航線W8航線有什麼好處呢?可以節省十分鐘可以節省十分鐘那現在從去年12月是78%,1月72%"},{"start":323.851,"end":345.261,"text":"二月七十八三月只有剩下六十九齁那麼這不是常態吧應該如果說演習的話齁中共那邊飛機在我們環島在演習很早就演習演習好幾年啦是不是那為什麼這四個月齁比較有一些狀況那軍方盡量能夠開放他就開放啦"},{"start":347.779,"end":375.027,"text":"您如果不知道的話是不是請何局長回答我像委員報告W2它是民航為主那W8是軍方為主不過過去因為我們這個直航的部分路線W8比較短所以我們都會去申請那不過以國防部的使用為優先過去核給我們的這個比例很高那現在他們有一些演訓的問題所以它比例有稍微降低一點不過我們走W2也是可以不過時間會稍微拖長一點"},{"start":376.874,"end":399.34,"text":"好 請何局長您是否了解更深入的跟我們回答一下跟委員報告確實這個就是其實因為他是會經過這個R9的限航區那如果軍方有演訓的話那基本上一定是軍方演訓優先他就不會同意我們的民航機去用這個W8的這個航路"},{"start":400.86,"end":427.726,"text":"那W2確實是稍微有一點彎繞就像剛剛委員講的大概要多個十分鐘那這個部分我想也是軍方延續需求要不然我們看前面幾個月其實都高達到97% 96%等等那所以說這部分我們也會再跟軍方來密切保持聯繫如果說他們這個延續需求不需要的時候是不是就盡量給我們民航機來使用我想這邊跟軍方那邊多聯繫一下嘛好不好"},{"start":429.201,"end":447.788,"text":"因為現在因為戰爭的問題,油料持續上漲昨天我去加個油本來都加一千二,現在加到一千八了我一下漲了六百塊你看韓國現在補貼油價,他們要給民眾一萬二很像多少部長有沒有這個打算"},{"start":450.126,"end":477.031,"text":"其實油價的漲幅大部分已經中油有吸收了所以政府大概會透過中油的吸收的部分來做補貼不會再給老闆印錢目前沒有聽到行政院有這樣子規劃不要行政院,你交通部要有建議你沒有建議行政院哪有院長那麼厲害他全部都知道你們要給他提供好的建議因為大部分都已經中油有吸收尤其是有建議加分另外部長我請教"},{"start":478.882,"end":505.021,"text":"鄭麗文,中國國民黨鄭麗文主席是在去大陸啦我們不要一直給他唱紅嘛我們現在不是觀光啊什麼都斷掉了嗎聽說他們來我們這邊觀光還在阻撓人家又這個缺這個缺那個一大堆啊有沒有什麼議題如果執政黨不跟反對黨去藉著他去跟習近平習主席見面的機會"},{"start":506.929,"end":533.447,"text":"丟出一些東西,我們丟個橄欖枝也可以啊是不是會有一些好的建議,你不方便給他你交給我好不好我來請鄭主席幫忙提一下嘛是不是我們的建議很簡單,如果中國方面願意用小兩會來跟我們做這個觀光方面的溝通其實速度就很快了很好啊你不要老是人家還沒去就講說哎呀你就講我們台灣國怎麼樣的啊幹什麼一邊一國啊什麼的你去講這個幹什麼去那邊去"},{"start":536.84,"end":561.46,"text":"弄和平的嘛 不是要去吵架的是不是你同意嗎不要警告啊 鄭主席啊 你去那邊啊如果講錯話啦 回來要關五年喔不要恐嚇人家嘛 這個就不好啦 是不是不需要嘛我們為了台灣好嘛 是不是我們拿到希望打仗嗎 是不是好不好 你有好的 像這個觀光小兩會如果能夠復談"},{"start":563.89,"end":588.145,"text":"這也是正面的好不好好那最後一個問題那個何局長請回去航港局上次說那個備援船進度怎麼樣要做一條那個藍色公路藍色公路這個構想非常好尤其現在日本我去過日本他們跳島還有現在很多的郵輪郵輪也在跳島"},{"start":591.912,"end":599.339,"text":"非常好的一個公關活動如果這條船在被淵船買了它可以跑澎湖金門馬祖對不對"},{"start":601.894,"end":629.243,"text":"那甚至風浪大的時候都可以救援然後平常沒用的話,我們東營那邊的交通也可以幫忙解決非常好的事情希望你積極的,部長積極推動好不好我們在1月30號已經報到行政院那我們預計希望能夠在118年底能夠交船來正式營運院長的態度怎麼樣?我想院長是支持藍色公路的建制跟備援船的建制"},{"start":630.183,"end":645.909,"text":"好,你趁著院長現在還在,他支持這個案子的院長,你要很積極的去做可是院長下台了嗎?他跑掉了,你要去找新的院長,就很麻煩了好不好?主席你要趕人嗎?趕快走,我去下台吧"}]}},{"id":"168147","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168147","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c59f116ee81c08549e62ad2ff7c694815994a069f48f295f31128cb8e9f3039315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"魯明哲","委員發言時間":"11:13:12 - 11:25:14","影片長度":"00:12:02","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:13:12+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:25:14+08:00","duration":722,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.51471875,"end":10.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.98284375,"end":12.450968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.68721875,"end":13.716593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.750343750000003,"end":16.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.20096875,"end":20.770343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.23034375,"end":20.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.49159375,"end":24.044093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.31409375,"end":32.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.190343750000004,"end":37.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.64534375,"end":47.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.77034375,"end":48.799718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.204718750000005,"end":57.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.625343750000006,"end":58.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.009093750000005,"end":60.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.51096875,"end":65.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.20221875,"end":75.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.05284375000001,"end":79.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.33909375,"end":92.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.29909375000001,"end":109.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.89159375000001,"end":116.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.99159375,"end":128.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.24721875,"end":141.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.98346875000001,"end":144.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.70034375,"end":169.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.83784375000002,"end":156.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.65846875,"end":169.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.33346875,"end":171.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.97034375,"end":172.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.69159375,"end":218.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.83721875,"end":187.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.97534375,"end":194.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.24159375000002,"end":218.57909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.57909375000003,"end":219.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.21596875,"end":222.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.62909375,"end":222.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.76409375,"end":222.78096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.78096875000003,"end":222.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.57409375,"end":225.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.86909375000002,"end":229.95284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.56034375000002,"end":233.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.64846875,"end":235.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.74096875,"end":236.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.44971875000002,"end":238.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.74471875,"end":240.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.59659375,"end":244.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.53284375,"end":245.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.64659375000002,"end":246.47346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.91221875000002,"end":248.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.75159375,"end":251.06346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.23221875000002,"end":263.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.39471875000004,"end":284.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.45471875000004,"end":285.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.34909375,"end":287.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.91846875000005,"end":288.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.18409375000005,"end":289.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.34846875,"end":291.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.44096875,"end":295.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.90034375000005,"end":301.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.21159375,"end":303.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.96659375,"end":304.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.35471875,"end":315.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.61034375,"end":321.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.84971875,"end":325.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.76909375,"end":329.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.85721875,"end":329.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.69659375000003,"end":354.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.08534375000005,"end":354.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.84471875,"end":378.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.57096875,"end":409.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.65471875000003,"end":420.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":420.79221875,"end":428.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.14534375000005,"end":436.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.67159375000006,"end":438.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.61221875,"end":439.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.65846875000005,"end":449.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.88471875000005,"end":452.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.20909375,"end":460.71846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":461.08971875000003,"end":462.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.24971875000006,"end":463.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.82346875,"end":464.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.44346875,"end":508.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.28909375,"end":511.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":511.83284375000005,"end":515.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.65909375,"end":525.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.48471875,"end":527.8640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.2522187500001,"end":529.6359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.9228437500001,"end":536.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":537.19596875,"end":538.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.02284375,"end":578.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.08409375,"end":578.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.3203437500001,"end":578.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.97846875,"end":587.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.53409375,"end":610.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.87221875,"end":611.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":612.00284375,"end":613.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.0447187500001,"end":615.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.7322187500001,"end":616.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.3015937499999,"end":617.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.5503437500001,"end":620.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":620.69346875,"end":622.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.5834687500001,"end":643.5928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.4028437500001,"end":653.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.44784375,"end":658.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.9153437500001,"end":662.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":662.61096875,"end":663.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.8259687500001,"end":671.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":671.74034375,"end":672.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":672.88784375,"end":675.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":675.7565937500001,"end":677.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":677.4440937500001,"end":677.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":677.79846875,"end":678.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.3047187500001,"end":678.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":678.3215937500001,"end":678.4397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.4397187500001,"end":678.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":678.82784375,"end":718.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":719.17596875,"end":720.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":720.7790937500001,"end":721.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.66909375,"end":724.2722187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.22,"end":31.226,"text":"好 謝謝趙偉我請我們交通部陳部長好 請陳部長高速公路局陳局長陳局長來 部長 局長各位好好 直接切入主題首先第一個問題是左邊那個新聞把它弄得比較小一點但標題應該看得到了就是在兩年前7月21號"},{"start":33.383,"end":48.535,"text":"一個標題是塞道報內立南下的紮道畫了將近一公里的雙白線當時民怨四起因為事前沒有溝通可能因為高速公路也不用跟誰溝通就把它畫上了畫上了把"},{"start":49.575,"end":74.886,"text":"內立交流道因為有從中立大園兩個交流道要上去的 紮到就把它關起來了大概關了900公尺那事實上我們也跟高速公路局開過協調會也透過交通委員會質詢更跟我們高工局甚至我們交通部也在聯絡這個問題必須要去解決最後得到一個答案說中方交流道中方交流道"},{"start":76.207,"end":91.955,"text":"上路之後上路之後因為道路本身就會拓寬開放之後對當時的一個整個站碑道都會改善那時候就可以去做一個處理了那現在因為去年的12月25我們迎接了中峰這個"},{"start":93.436,"end":116.193,"text":"交流道的啟用那現在也三個月了三個月到底現在這個我再問那個那天問局長說你們也在考慮看看怎麼樣有什麼建議方案那現在能不能確認一下好不好大概什麼時候可以調整要不要調整說明一下像委員報告這個部分高工局這邊已經有做過會刊那也決定要做調整那調整的時間是不是請局長這邊"},{"start":117.915,"end":131.262,"text":"我們因為它是兩個就是說南入的閘道其實蠻接近的那這次中風交通道通車之後我們也做了整體的這個交通量的一些做一些調整也做一些調查"},{"start":132.162,"end":157.036,"text":"那所以就是說我們就是第一個從這個內力上來的這個南路環道的這一個的雙白絲線我們要做一些調整那把它縮短那讓這一個從這邊上來的這一個交通量的話就可以直接併入主線然後不用到前面就是說從大園進來的才要整個合併再進來那這一個的調整的話這個我們大概時間大概要多久"},{"start":157.597,"end":172.399,"text":"我們當初估是大概因為三月份有去做大概的一個評估所以大概三個月是到六月不過我有請同仁就是說能不能盡快在下個月我們下個月五月底以前把它完成那要拜託一下就是說因為"},{"start":173.752,"end":202.159,"text":"可以做而且已經決定要做了我們就希望速度能夠快一點當然不影響到這個交通你們是深夜去把它做一下因為畢竟只有標線的問題你們可能部分路段要重鋪重新劃線讓我們這個區塊因為內地交通道一直是我們桃園南區非常重要的交流道它不光是附近的大概幾十萬個我們的市民更重要還是中壢工業區中壢工業區五百家廠商"},{"start":202.719,"end":221.784,"text":"那邊不管是機械電子甚至食品批發都在那裡他要撲過到全台灣往南下的車流非常非常多已經困擾很久了所以這個部分也拜託部長局長要做我們就盡快來做好不好我們加速來進行好那接下來我們要談一下台鐵公司"},{"start":223.612,"end":240.746,"text":"台鐵公司這個民營化因為我正好有經過民營化那個討論的一個激烈的過程當時因為這個我們畢竟陳部長那時候還沒有擔任交通部部長那在台鐵公司化當時主要的一個目標你們要達成的我們"},{"start":243.688,"end":262.419,"text":"2024第一年不好意思問你第二年也過了現在2026邁向第三年第三個年頭那我就請教一下當時你昭告我們所有的全民不光是立法委員三大核心目標第一個安全第一安全沒有什麼打折扣我當時也質詢過很多"},{"start":264.44,"end":288.312,"text":"那為什麼公司化之後你們就會這個安全會提升你們有很多的說法嘛因為你們自由度啊人才找很多專家你們有很多的一個說法那第二個是提升服務的準點率第三個今天不談啦改善財務的結構但財務的結構我事先講喔我們立法院也好我們全國這個"},{"start":290.413,"end":302.971,"text":"只要坐火車的國民在去年的六月份你們調高平均的一個票價26.8%我也坦白講大家也說這麼多年沒調了要你們做好"},{"start":304.008,"end":321.181,"text":"那把你們的一些票價補足我是覺得那一陣子並沒有很多很大的一些民怨大家就好給你們讓你們的財務先做一個改善那我覺得你這個董事長你說一下好不好你覺得三大目標你覺得你打幾分啊"},{"start":323.762,"end":338.474,"text":"這個分數可能還是要由民眾來打分我是跟委員報告就是說在安全方面我們當然是台鐵的天子一定要把安全做好"},{"start":338.934,"end":365.99,"text":"那在這部分的話我是覺得如果說以異常事件來看那麼前一年的話是第一年的時候是271件那去年我們少了103件那今年的話我們現在也朝這個目標大概一個禮拜大概是11件12件在努力那這一部分的話我是去年6月上來"},{"start":366.71,"end":385.576,"text":"那從7月開始啊我在這部分呢要求我們所有的一級主管包括最主要的是跟安全有關係的公務 電務 機務跟運務那這個主管應該對可能對安全有問題的異常事件呢多做深切的檢討那這樣下來以後啊從去年7月啊"},{"start":385.976,"end":409.517,"text":"一個禮拜大概是二十幾件我跟委員報告我們現在最近已經到可規則的事件大概只到八件九件但十件以內所以這部分我是覺得是有很大的一個進步但是所以在第二點準點力的部分的話其實也是有幫忙但是最近幾個事情可能把大家都認為說台鐵的準點力又把大家脫鉤"},{"start":410.658,"end":436.073,"text":"這樣好了因為我時間的關係因為其實我覺得交通部希望借重你在高鐵的一些經驗能夠來到我們的台鐵雖然那個實在是那邊比較單純路線單一車型也單一你到了台鐵之後完全不一樣車型那麼多不容易啦可是我覺得安全第一你剛剛講頻率改善它的強度你可能單一事件一鍵就好了"},{"start":436.733,"end":448.678,"text":"那讓全民的感受我覺得安全跟準點服務我覺得現在民眾的感受並不是很好我希望你們能夠知道這是我在去年12月29號這個當時是我們總經理你來回答的嘛"},{"start":453.308,"end":475.496,"text":"我們那時候就在問說這個因為急電工造成的不管電車線交互的影響受損程度從109年到去年114年怎麼越來越多那你當時一個特別回答我們全縣每天都在做這個檢查那我們也願意相信我們也希望拜託要做要做好嘛"},{"start":476.016,"end":492.183,"text":"要做要做實戰不能說 喔 檢查了那你現在這很我剛剛這個其他表都是我去年12月29號跟你請教的結果你3月27號你發生這樣的在三家站附近讓樹林英哥整個那邊斷線"},{"start":493.924,"end":515.836,"text":"而且修了特別久 修了將近到中午之後才單線雙向通車就影響到 居然是比我們去年在執行的不管是影響了班次 影響了人數尤其延誤的時間超過兩萬分鐘啊甚至有一個站延誤 車輛延誤310分鐘啊你們知道嗎 本來要坐上班的"},{"start":516.847,"end":543.938,"text":"結果他等到下班了我覺得光這一件事的感受這個強度由於對準點相對的安全的印象我覺得是真的很不行那這個董事長我想你們真的要好好再檢討一下還是總經理再回答一下那急電工就是每天都在檢查對不對你也承諾了跟委員報告這個急電工的問題這一次是一個急電工造成的問題"},{"start":544.798,"end":570.691,"text":"但是今天主要是因為這個駕駛員他沒有按照SOP他的急電工有狀況的時候他的VCP就是所謂的這個空調電路器他應該要趕快下來看是不是急電工有造作他不應該再開他繼續再開所以就從這個一路從樹林一直到英哥那邊大概搞了大概9.6公里"},{"start":571.932,"end":586.73,"text":"所以就造成整個沿路的這個電車線都下來所以就造成在我們修路上非常的困難這個弄到我們部長都震怒了震怒了可是因為這個問題你不解決因為我覺得有一些是人為的問題有一些是市都的問題"},{"start":587.671,"end":612.778,"text":"我看到你好幾件事都是有double check的機制不管是有這個檢修人員或者司機員有好幾一堆人要看這件事情然後一樣在一堆人面前把這個事情搞砸你們讓這兩件事情讓那個這個EMU最美電聯車現在變不美了你知道嗎你現在最美區間車3月30號基礎撞在一起了你知道前面那個"},{"start":614.096,"end":643.356,"text":"微笑的曲線那一天啊變成什麼 剩下那個凹陷曲線不見了 剩下凹陷扭曲的凹陷在這整個那個過程中而且比剛剛那個來講是司機員 檢修員你這件事情在吊車場裡面有第一個吊車員第二個司機員第三個至少三名的吊車工配合吊車工第四個還有監控的巡控人員四組人叫做分工合作"},{"start":644.457,"end":661.499,"text":"合作到這樣的我覺得已經有double check你到底制度上出了什麼問題就說簡單來說如果是真的只有一個人的出了意外互相監督居然在制度上系統上沒有辦法解決我真的覺得這個部長說三天以內"},{"start":662.642,"end":678.636,"text":"你要有一個明確的答案而且真的要落實到教育這種我覺得都是不應該的低級的錯誤但是不斷的發生那最後請部長你來講一下"},{"start":679.096,"end":705.778,"text":"報告委員非常感謝您的關心我覺得安全是最重要的我們所有的同仁的訓練是很重要的這是第一第二我們的SOP一定是有設定但第三如果同仁沒有照SOP在做的時候台鐵的問責文化也必須要啟動因為我們有看到一些事件其實不只是造成旅客的不方便更重要的是造成我們自己的同仁受傷不照SOP的結果就會造成我們的同仁受傷或者是像這個列車線把電線拉斷的問題"},{"start":708.84,"end":717.974,"text":"所以我認為台鐵一方面他們的SOP要重新檢討二方面對SOP的落實如果無法做到那台鐵公司的問責文化也必須要啟動"}]}},{"id":"168146","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168146","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c0ea72d166f9ca1b9bad885c3c28ba2b2994a069f48f295f3c86df9d5e1265cba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:59:51 - 12:10:15","影片長度":"00:10:24","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:59:51+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:10:15+08:00","duration":624,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.0434687500000002,"end":1.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.38096875,"end":3.2372187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.60846875,"end":4.384718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.15596875,"end":10.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.016593750000002,"end":13.817843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.121593750000002,"end":38.438468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.53971875,"end":39.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.22721875,"end":42.032843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.454718750000005,"end":49.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.39034375,"end":49.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.59284375,"end":51.432218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.22971875,"end":53.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.955343750000004,"end":53.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.59221875,"end":59.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.36346875,"end":59.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.59971875,"end":61.30409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.455968750000004,"end":61.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.877843750000004,"end":62.265968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.907218750000006,"end":63.126593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.025343750000005,"end":65.70846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.46409375,"end":66.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.48471875,"end":69.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.46346875,"end":68.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.47159375000001,"end":69.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.01159375,"end":70.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.73284375,"end":74.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.06971875,"end":84.47346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.30534375,"end":84.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.43971875000001,"end":90.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.12659375000001,"end":92.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.70846875000001,"end":118.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.51034375,"end":168.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.51096875000002,"end":186.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.56721875000002,"end":195.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.05096875,"end":197.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.16471875000002,"end":201.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.08784375000002,"end":203.52659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.03284375,"end":210.98534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.23846875,"end":213.95534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.52909375000002,"end":217.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.39346875,"end":232.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.80471875,"end":263.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.68596875000003,"end":271.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.77034375,"end":263.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.56221875,"end":285.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.94409375000004,"end":291.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.10346875,"end":295.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.11971875,"end":296.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.63846875,"end":298.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.65096875,"end":300.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.49034375,"end":303.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.00471875,"end":311.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.67971875,"end":303.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.41284375000004,"end":370.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.95596875,"end":318.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.28409375,"end":325.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.01596875,"end":339.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.62284375,"end":400.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.47471875,"end":408.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.94596875,"end":412.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.73846875000004,"end":416.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.02909375,"end":417.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.87284375,"end":418.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.68284375,"end":443.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.72534375000004,"end":445.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.22284375000004,"end":450.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.89721875000004,"end":452.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.66909375,"end":462.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.05159375000005,"end":463.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.51971875000004,"end":468.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.49346875000003,"end":470.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.13034375,"end":473.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.39596875,"end":472.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.16784375000003,"end":474.28596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.60659375000006,"end":478.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.09534375000004,"end":481.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.21721875000003,"end":482.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.07784375000006,"end":493.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.06346875,"end":496.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.88159375000004,"end":523.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.83096875,"end":523.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.42159375,"end":526.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.93596875,"end":527.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.2690937500001,"end":534.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.69034375,"end":554.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.64784375,"end":536.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.5265937500001,"end":582.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.62346875,"end":616.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.16659375,"end":623.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.64659375,"end":624.6928437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.831,"end":2.877,"text":"謝謝主席 我請林部長"},{"start":10.148,"end":39.05,"text":"好 部長我們的外交工作非常辛苦那我想請問一下在網路上有一個粉專政客爽那他有一個影片就是呢總統在接見就是美國代表團的時候因為總統在發表演說然後在那個影片裡面呢你眼睛閉起來然後有點頭請問一下那個時候你是不是非常的勞累疲累有度過嗎"},{"start":40.291,"end":52.716,"text":"有閉目養神嗎?謝謝委員的關心,外交的工作是跨時區,很多的業務因為是同仁,有提醒我,外界有在關心這個問題,我是有去看了一下"},{"start":63.712,"end":91.922,"text":"是有閉幕啦,但很快就回神了很快回神,但是有一點,有杜姑是看起來是有啊,但是我是說打瞌睡與否是一回事,但拼外交不能打折啦我是說我是很全面所以部長也很誠實的講說那個時候確實有閉幕養神啦我們可以這樣講嗎對啦,這也是很快就回神了啦"},{"start":93.342,"end":116.312,"text":"因為我們質詢 因為我們還是會關心部長你的身體的狀態希望你都保持非常旺盛的精神來拚外交另外 這一次美國四位的參議員來台訪問我在這邊要特別肯定一位就是我們的現在是國防部的副部長徐思潔"},{"start":118.753,"end":123.636,"text":"為什麼呢?因為在這個參議員他在訪問的過程裡面到中科院訪問徐思簡在他們的面前特別提到就是我們已經我們已經付款但是仍然延宕還沒有交貨的這些軍購我覺得這點非常重要我們現在在審查這個有關於我們國防特別預算其實我們一直非常關心而且社會大眾最關心的這一點就是說我們預算給了"},{"start":148.473,"end":151.955,"text":"錢也付了但是為什麼我們採購的這個軍售遲遲沒有辦法到貨老師說過去我在看我們不管 雖然是拼外交也好你們到國外訪問也好或者美國的訪問團來台灣也好我都沒有看見我們的官員公開的來關心這個事情"},{"start":168.607,"end":172.07,"text":"來表達我們社會大眾關心我們已付款卻未到貨的這些軍購我覺得至少徐師姐敢講出來而不是在這些美國的訪問團裡面然後大罵藍白沒有通過預算很重要的就是我們社會大眾應該關心的事情要做反應這一點我覺得我是肯定徐師姐的做法"},{"start":196.087,"end":199.83,"text":"那另外請教一下就剛才也有委員特別講到WTO部長會議"},{"start":203.154,"end":231.855,"text":"部長我們台灣雖然小但是我們算是貿易大國我們的貿易量全球排名第15所以WTO對我們很重要很重要的是台灣對於WTO也非常重要但是這一次因為這樣的外交因素因為克麥隆其實是非常無理而且有矮化我們國格的問題使得我們第一次沒有辦法參加WTO部長"},{"start":232.896,"end":256.346,"text":"及的會議這是非常重大的損失我們也擔心他未來不要變成一個常態所以部長你在這邊可不可以好來做一個了解就說我很擔心今年我們沒有辦法參加部長級會議未來會不會有其他的會員國也如此無理所以除了對柯麥隆"},{"start":257.446,"end":271.659,"text":"的抗議之外 我們有沒有對WTO的秘書處做強烈的抗議你們WTO不能說你今天就尊重今天主辦國 愛怎麼搞就亂搞啊台灣是貿易大國耶 我們很重要啊"},{"start":273.423,"end":295.143,"text":"柯班長既然要主辦這種WTO的國際會議尤其是部長會議他就應該遵守WTO的規定他不遵守以他控制我們因為要簽證入關使我們實質上無法入境那我們現在就是說要求WTO的秘書處以及未來要稱辦的國家都必須要"},{"start":296.175,"end":306.382,"text":"就是先承諾不能夠有差別待遇我們要求秘書處要做這樣的一個因為申辦國現在也是有國家申辦我們也在交涉他們當然也表達他們會對我覺得這一點很重要因為他不能這一次是一個極為極為例外他不能成為一個常態其實我老講我們是WTO的會員國我們不是觀察員"},{"start":323.875,"end":327.418,"text":"我們是會員國另外最後用一點時間剛剛特別提到你們在昨天對於南韓的應對方案臨時喊卡可是其實這樣的問題是越來越多我這邊也有接到民眾的投訴他在德國柏林的布蘭登機場布蘭登堡機場他是自動check in的時候"},{"start":353.034,"end":380.704,"text":"這個系統呢 出現在你的國籍的國籍欄裡面只有台灣,China然後當然韓國電子路徑卡 還有前一陣子丹麥丹麥是對於我們的拘留證 變成CHN所以呢 我們外交部也斥責也有斥責丹麥 也有跟他們抗議然後越南簽證也是如此 也是China 然後瓜湖台灣"},{"start":381.724,"end":394.414,"text":"所以也就是說韓國電子入境卡的事情它變成不是單一個案可能越來越多的其他的國家機場也好 拘留證也好 簽證申請也好都會出現這樣子的一個把我們矮化的狀態"},{"start":401.058,"end":412.844,"text":"那當然我們本來是在韓國大家很生氣說我們把他改成南韓那如果我這樣子看那麼多那我們要把德國改成西德把你越南改成北越把你在外改成樂高王國算了"},{"start":413.769,"end":442.688,"text":"但是這樣子好像也不是一個正伴所以我們所以在講說我們中華民國的外交確實碰到很多的困境剛才也講的就是說除了韓國電子入境卡這次因為國人去韓國非常多所以感受很深刻可是剛才講的德國的機場越南的簽證當然可能到丹麥去去居留的人不多可是陸陸續續都碰到相關的狀態"},{"start":443.989,"end":462.616,"text":"所以請問一下部長有沒有一個就是未來一個怎麼樣的對應的方式我看得出來外交部不想把這個爭議直接的拉高希望給外就不要給韓國一些時間可是別說德國啦或者是丹麥這些我們要怎麼辦呢"},{"start":463.724,"end":481.497,"text":"各位報告 確實這個樣態也很多因為現在很多國家都在整合電磁化的政府包括入境 也許不同的政府單位也許有不同的做法現在在整合中就產生中共可以施壓的一個切入點"},{"start":483.238,"end":495.882,"text":"當然每個國家的情形我們都會根據那個情形來處理這個我想有關於韓方我們已經處理了丹麥我們在處理中基於外交就是對等丹麥有沒有可能有一些轉圜"},{"start":498.243,"end":526.133,"text":"是我想其實丹麥包括歐盟的國家包括丹麥裡面的很多政要也都認為他們在兩年多前去做這個有關於我們在他們那邊的這個所謂的居留證的登記這個國籍的部分去更改這個是他改變的現狀所以我們當然在交涉中在交涉過程我們也基於對等之原則那我們也有告訴他方案了"},{"start":527.523,"end":552.741,"text":"因為他要入境我們也是可以把他空白或用什麼其他的方式所以我說要努力但是我們目的是要解決問題我們在台灣當然可以用大內宣方式或者用意識形態的方式比如說剛才沈伯陽委員可以講一堆其實全世界沒有啦可是事實上我們國人出境或者在海外居留等等都陸續去碰到相關的問題"},{"start":554.642,"end":561.845,"text":"所以這已經不是單一事件這並不是我們自己在這邊覺得說這個就是全世界沒有這樣的做法可是事實上就碰到這些像這個到德國去check in的時候那他們也是來跟我們反映啊所以很生氣很生氣可是問題他要登機啊他還是要去登機對不對所以我覺得在這個部分我還是希望建議外交部能夠很務實的去看待這個問題"},{"start":583.174,"end":590.14,"text":"我們可以去抗議的 像我剛剛講WGO一定要嚴重的抗議因為我是會員國啊 會員國不能參加部長級會議 開玩笑了但是有一些他跟我們沒有邦交的跟我們沒有邦交 或者有一些他跟我們有一定的經貿往來或者是韓國是因為我們的旅客的人數佔他們非常大的一個比例我們有更好的更多的一個就是談判的條件"},{"start":609.136,"end":623.066,"text":"所以我們要很務實的去因應這些越來越多的像這樣的一個入境爭議 好不好好 我覺得委員的分析跟因個每個情形我們都要做妥當的應處對 好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168145","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168145","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c363dc00e1834261abd67b93b5004dc02994a069f48f295f3bfec343d2020f60e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"11:57:05 - 12:09:00","影片長度":"00:11:55","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:57:05+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:09:00+08:00","duration":715,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.60846875,"end":7.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.636593750000003,"end":13.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.15971875,"end":158.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.04409375,"end":161.79471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.09846875000002,"end":164.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.66346875000002,"end":168.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.17346875,"end":174.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.14346875,"end":171.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.91096875000002,"end":177.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.30721875,"end":179.07471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.88909375,"end":178.95659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.07471875000002,"end":179.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.26034375,"end":194.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.44596875000002,"end":179.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.00471875000002,"end":200.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.72534375,"end":210.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.05721875,"end":234.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.46221875,"end":211.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.16721875000002,"end":235.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.04034375,"end":268.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.11971875,"end":270.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.55409375,"end":313.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.78784375000004,"end":325.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.05596875000003,"end":340.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.48409375,"end":369.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.72471875,"end":367.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.23096875000005,"end":370.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.09971875,"end":375.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.66909375,"end":393.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.35971875,"end":380.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.62784375,"end":409.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.02596875,"end":426.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.78284375000004,"end":426.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.79971875,"end":473.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.50971875000005,"end":486.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.23096875000005,"end":475.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.53346875000005,"end":483.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.63471875000005,"end":483.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.23346875000004,"end":486.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.17846875000004,"end":493.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.28721875,"end":495.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.07596875,"end":497.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.08409375,"end":497.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.69159375000004,"end":505.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.19659375000003,"end":516.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.4184687500001,"end":523.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.51034375,"end":525.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.68721875,"end":531.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.7790937500001,"end":537.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.7240937500001,"end":533.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.4453437500001,"end":535.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.4028437500001,"end":541.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.3428437499999,"end":547.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.1184687500001,"end":549.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.55659375,"end":553.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.34971875,"end":552.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.1428437500001,"end":581.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.29721875,"end":564.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.4209687499999,"end":598.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.1103437500001,"end":613.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.7578437500001,"end":629.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.9072187500001,"end":634.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.46346875,"end":642.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.25971875,"end":655.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.05096875,"end":678.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.4228437500001,"end":681.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.03846875,"end":681.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.46034375,"end":714.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.69159375,"end":687.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.2859687499999,"end":690.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.16346875,"end":691.3659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.3997187500001,"end":691.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.66221875,"end":713.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.34971875,"end":714.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.38346875,"end":714.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.78846875,"end":716.20596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.646,"end":7.369,"text":"好 謝謝我請教育部鄭部長好 請鄭部長委員好好 部長好剛陳培育委員提到這個實驗教育三法上路之後我們要來一個通盤檢討我相當的支持也相當有感因為我過去在擔任市議員的時候就時常跟像我們這種非學員型態的實驗教育的團體家長或者學生團體都有他們時常遇到真的很多的這些困擾"},{"start":32.947,"end":56.166,"text":"譬如說學校裡面跟學校來談場地常常有時候都需要來協助來協調甚至曾經譬如說租金要幫忙負擔土地稅等等的問題那麼像新府資源也是一樣有些學生他們是沒有學籍的或有些是掛在教育局的那在新府資源的使用上面有時候他們就會比較被忽略到所以我覺得確實因為上路已經實務經驗這麼多年了"},{"start":57.987,"end":62.569,"text":"那我們針對學校型態 非學型態也好就是各方類型的實驗教育的學生我們能夠怎麼樣整體再來提供他們資源跟後盾我覺得真的是可以整體來討論一下那今天最主要幾個問題要跟部長討論首先是呢因為前陣子因為林義雄先生過去林齋寫案的事件重新被社會大眾看見那社會上面發起一個叫轉型正義補課潮"},{"start":84.58,"end":108.913,"text":"那我收到很多人的反應說很感謝教育部有一個轉型正義的補課專區因為上面的資訊至少國人可以知道說這個資訊是正確的因為現在資訊特別發達也變成說查證也需要花比較多的心力所以知道資訊正確那很多人他是想要認識歷史想要了解歷史有一個管道有一個入口讓他可以入門那大家會自己再去挖掘更多的資料來閱讀"},{"start":110.114,"end":125.138,"text":"那麼事實上我們去回顧教育部對轉型正義教育的推動其實一直是關鍵角色為了轉型正義的工程教育是重中之重因為我們要真的去認識歷史我們才能夠反省才能夠學習尊重所以教育部我們從2000年以後開始推動人權教育我們有國家轉型正義教育行動綱領從2023至2026年的同時我們也有教學諮詢網"},{"start":136.041,"end":148.134,"text":"我們針對轉型正義的教育人才庫我們也有設置要點這些都是等於是我們轉型正義教育的基礎工程我覺得很重要那也肯定教育部我們也希望可以繼續來做那針對轉型正義補課專區我們目前上線的是兩個單元一個是228一個是湯德章那麼接下來4月7日是輿論自由日"},{"start":159.165,"end":178.317,"text":"言論自由日我們也會有鄭南榮的一個短影音的一個言論自由日那一天會公佈好這個是我們教育部轉型正義補課專心的下一張新的一張的課程那麼未來5月19號也會有5月19號也有再一個課程那麼我們"},{"start":179.398,"end":194.29,"text":"就是說我們會針對每一個月裡邊不同的一些不管白色恐怖或者對個人的這個人權上造成了一個傷害我們大概希望說陳某講說自由全然不是自然發生的那歷史"},{"start":195.091,"end":209.528,"text":"我們可以原諒但是不能遺忘那我想這一個部分我們也希望因為透過這個短影透過轉型正義的一個更積極全面的推動希望我們國人能夠更珍惜我們的自由台灣的自由跟民主"},{"start":210.109,"end":230.253,"text":"是因為迴響真的相當不錯那我們也需要這樣比較科普性質的教育那就我所知這一次因為是事件引發的所以說第一個當課程上線的時候也比較倉促一點所以很感謝我們相關單位我們承辦同仁大家都是全力的在拼啦那我們有沒有針對這一個轉型正義的補課專區有一個中長程的規劃呢"},{"start":237.113,"end":262.023,"text":"跟委員報告我們已經排到明年二月也就是說那因為明年剛好二二八又是八十週年就是說我們大概在這一個行動綱領裡面到今年第一期結束嘛我們明年事實上會請這個我們朱次長現在會有一個一加從今年開始等於有一個重疊明年又有一個新的四年但是今年成為一加四雖然它是最後一年"},{"start":262.523,"end":279.302,"text":"我們有一系列的這些轉型正義的一些課程或者一些不予以指的大學裡邊開始今年過去沒有我們今年開始把大學的USR包含大學的教學實驗實踐計畫裡邊已經也都摳"},{"start":283.627,"end":304.769,"text":"希望老師在教學創新裡面或者USR大學能夠把這個轉型正義人權教育也都能夠帶進來那目前在USR裡面已經有七所大學提出這樣一個計畫我想從大所接小所裡面結合在地的地方文史跟社會工作者能夠把這些地圖然後"},{"start":305.369,"end":320.882,"text":"讓中小學能夠透過他們來協助中小學的學生也都能夠進一步的去理解我們這個歷史好 部長我們很支持你們去推動但你知道我長期關注所以我看了去年12月行政院有一個轉型爭議這個會報會議記錄我們行政院人權處就提出說認為你們的業務繁重"},{"start":328.087,"end":353.775,"text":"認為你們的人力是有必要增加的這個行政院通常都是我們去跟行政院要人力他說你這個太多了 不可以再多了很少行政院叫你們要增加人力所以人力的部分我們有沒有相應的規劃呢謝謝委員關心 確實我們做了非常多 包含教師課程教材的發展包括校長的演習包括我們看許多的這些轉型正義相關的影片那也邀請行政院的"},{"start":357.338,"end":376.216,"text":"這個委員去現場跟我們指導那我們現在也感謝他們看到我們在有限人力做了還蠻積極的所以我們現在大概也跟人事總署人事總署在爭取說希望能夠有能力的調整要去進行那我們也建議"},{"start":376.877,"end":397.103,"text":"就是因為我們這一次也有跟像228基金會來合作嘛我們也可以多來增加跟像228紀念館國家人權館這些專案的合作我覺得都很重要然後諸志也是228基金會的董事嘛這個他們都長期在投入了來去善用整合這些資源我想也很重要我們是展現一個態度就是說我們在今年"},{"start":398.083,"end":424.124,"text":"在這個月裡面應該上個月我們教育部的部務會議我也親自帶我們所有的一級主管到景美的人權博物館裡面去開部務會議同時也請這個受難者當事人出來解說那我想這也是展現說我們教育部在未來轉型政治跟人權教育這個我們一定會全面的來更積極的來推動"},{"start":426.826,"end":431.07,"text":"好那我們也支持教育部繼續來推動這個主持人謝謝那時間不是很夠但是我一定要跟部長討論是專任輔導教師的權益因為黃婕委員在總質詢的時候也有跟部長您討論過那當時這個"},{"start":443.021,"end":451.687,"text":"您的回應是說在請地方政府來補貼我認為這是不夠有誠意所以今天還是要討論一下這個因為根據我們學生輔導法我們專輔教師跟專業輔導人力這個當然是守護我們校園心理健康最重要的兩個防線那上一週我們是在審查學生衛生法學校衛生法這時候也有提到專輔人力的議題今天要講的是專輔教師主要就是說因為我們對教師我們有一個標準是授課時數"},{"start":473.701,"end":492.811,"text":"所以我們可以去衡量去評估說例如他這個有沒有超過業務量啊有沒有超時加急啊等等但是專輔教師他是用個案他是用案量對個案進行處遇嘛那所以等於教育部目前你們對專輔教師的業務你們你們有衡量標準嗎你們衡量標準是什麼"},{"start":494.892,"end":510.118,"text":"我們目前其實是沒有標準的所以沒有標準會造成什麼問題你根本看不見專輔教師他的辛勞我連衡量評估的工具都沒有那所以說呢這個目前不管是輔導教師教師團體或家長團體都有提出一個訴求就是說我們的專輔教師能夠比照特教"},{"start":517.481,"end":525.965,"text":"老師有特教老師有特教家級嘛我們能不能夠有專輔家級這個部分呢我想已經部長已經充分了解這個問題了我們有沒有來開啟一個討論就是說你們找這個專業團體大家來討論說這個到底是要怎麼樣改善有關專輔教師確實怎麼樣去讓給他們有一個更大的支持我想我們"},{"start":542.412,"end":543.515,"text":"我們會來會後會來找相關的包括專業團體我們一起來討論這個要開會我們有沒有一個時間"},{"start":552.381,"end":566.069,"text":"近快來兩個月內我們就來開啟這個討論好不好因為你們一定比我們更了解實務上面遇到的困難那這個你要增加加給也好這都是要整體互相來做評估的所以趕快來開啟這個會議的討論那除了加給以外還有一個比較具體的是我們學校的這個輔導主任是不是一定要專輔老師來兼任這個我們國民教育法21條是規定說輔導主任"},{"start":581.337,"end":586.323,"text":"是有輔導熱忱及專業智能的教師擔任學生輔導法第九條學校輔導主管依據輔導專業專長者優先任用實際上是你有輔導教師證就可以來擔任輔導主任才對"},{"start":599.219,"end":605.824,"text":"那唯一只有在高中我們的高級中等教育法20條裡面有明定說這個主任必須要專輔教師來擔任資"},{"start":630.06,"end":648.39,"text":"那所以他們說我們完全中學我的業務其實包含了國中跟高中那我們的法規的解釋其實就我來看法規解釋你不一定是要比照高中的標準因為他也有國中的業務存在那麼如果完全中學他是不是可以只要是有這個輔導教師證的這個老師就可以來擔任輔導主任這個部長過去有沒有聽聞過這相關的陳情啊"},{"start":656.435,"end":674.942,"text":"謝謝委員因為確實這一個問題就剛才委員所說的完全中學我們目前是比照高級中學法的第20條那我們也這個法規會的一個知情裡面大概也都是目前的態度都是採用比照這一個高中的教育法這樣來執行"},{"start":677.563,"end":681.367,"text":"這個部長我看過你們所有的會議記錄其實有專家是有提出不同法律解釋沒有認為說一定要用這個高中中等教育法來解釋所以部長拜託一下因為我覺得這個實務上如果我們可以替他解決這個困擾只要是法規"},{"start":696.42,"end":710.814,"text":"可以允許的範圍內我看起來甚至不用修法請你們來討論一下好不好 就實務的需求跟法規解釋面來做整體的評估我們希望就我們現在不用修法的階段你可以 我們能夠提供給他們幫助的盡量來協助因為真的現場的狀況是負擔相當的大好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長"}]}},{"id":"168144","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168144","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c62401077a45072c3bad885c3c28ba2b2994a069f48f295f3e391b23e5ee14c115ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝龍介","委員發言時間":"11:49:14 - 11:59:30","影片長度":"00:10:16","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:49:14+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:59:30+08:00","duration":616,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0434687500000002,"end":2.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.1697187500000004,"end":4.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.35409375,"end":11.759093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.809718750000002,"end":14.695343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.04971875,"end":15.387218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.437843750000003,"end":17.024093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.37846875,"end":20.027843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.88846875,"end":22.778468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.723468750000002,"end":26.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.79471875,"end":28.785968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.47784375,"end":29.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.55784375,"end":31.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.941593750000003,"end":33.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.494093750000005,"end":34.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.53596875,"end":38.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.877218750000004,"end":39.940343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.32409375,"end":43.602218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.462843750000005,"end":48.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.43659375,"end":55.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.000968750000006,"end":57.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.77721875,"end":60.612218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.27034375,"end":79.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.61534375000001,"end":69.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.61346875000001,"end":80.64284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.23346875,"end":83.83221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.40596875,"end":87.20721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.22409375000001,"end":87.81471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.30409375,"end":89.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.17721875000001,"end":97.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.90159375,"end":109.38096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.40784375000001,"end":100.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.68471875,"end":116.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.17284375000001,"end":119.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.61971875,"end":121.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.64471875000001,"end":125.59784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.86784375,"end":127.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.15846875,"end":130.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.47034375,"end":132.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.14096875,"end":133.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.23784375,"end":135.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.79034375,"end":137.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.59159375000002,"end":140.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.49409375000002,"end":141.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.70909375000002,"end":143.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.92409375,"end":144.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.03784375,"end":145.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.43846875,"end":146.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.04596875000001,"end":147.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.35784375,"end":150.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.51784375,"end":153.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.30221875,"end":154.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.82096875000002,"end":156.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.50409375,"end":162.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.05596875,"end":166.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.38471875000002,"end":168.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.48971875,"end":172.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.03346875,"end":174.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.02471875,"end":176.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.91471875000002,"end":177.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.90596875,"end":181.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.82534375,"end":183.24284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.96846875,"end":185.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.28471875000002,"end":185.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.28034375000001,"end":187.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.80721875,"end":191.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.91221875000002,"end":193.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.28284375,"end":199.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.92784375000002,"end":202.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.39159375000003,"end":203.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.28596875000002,"end":205.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.50909375,"end":211.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.81221875,"end":212.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.15784375,"end":214.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.42346875,"end":216.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.41471875000002,"end":218.59596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.45659375000002,"end":221.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.52784375000002,"end":224.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.17284375000003,"end":227.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.74221875,"end":230.50971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.96534375000002,"end":232.14659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.17596875,"end":233.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.01971875,"end":234.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.90971875000002,"end":237.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.39034375000003,"end":238.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.52096875,"end":241.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.17034375000003,"end":243.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.81971875000002,"end":246.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.51971875,"end":249.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.27034375000002,"end":251.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.68346875,"end":256.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.71659375,"end":260.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.49659375000005,"end":261.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.62284375,"end":263.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.55096875000004,"end":265.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.99346875000003,"end":270.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.63846875,"end":272.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.55346875000004,"end":277.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.77659375,"end":278.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.34596875,"end":280.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.96596875,"end":282.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.61534375,"end":288.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.53846875,"end":292.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.68971875,"end":295.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.61346875000004,"end":295.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.60909375,"end":297.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.07721875000004,"end":299.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.35534375000003,"end":301.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.05534375,"end":305.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.24034375,"end":312.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.60221875,"end":315.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.31909375000004,"end":318.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.42846875000004,"end":319.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.57596875,"end":321.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.93409375000005,"end":323.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.79034375000003,"end":325.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.47784375000003,"end":327.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.09784375000004,"end":328.77284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.16096875,"end":332.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.90721875,"end":333.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.96596875,"end":336.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.52659375,"end":352.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.85346875000005,"end":357.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.66284375000004,"end":359.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.21909375,"end":363.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.49721875,"end":366.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.11284375,"end":369.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.09971875,"end":374.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.65159375,"end":377.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.28409375,"end":380.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.89971875000003,"end":386.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.37971875000005,"end":387.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.93659375000004,"end":391.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.15971875,"end":393.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.33221875000004,"end":395.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.50471875000005,"end":397.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.66471875,"end":400.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.21284375000005,"end":404.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.42346875000004,"end":405.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.68909375000004,"end":408.05159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.01346875,"end":411.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.00034375,"end":413.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.92409375000005,"end":414.37971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.97034375000004,"end":417.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.01596875,"end":421.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.23096875000005,"end":421.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.00721875000005,"end":431.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.52034375000005,"end":432.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.81971875000005,"end":436.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.48159375,"end":440.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.80159375000005,"end":442.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.06284375,"end":451.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.98659375000005,"end":448.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.24721875,"end":452.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.68159375000005,"end":455.65596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.03971875,"end":461.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.37721875000005,"end":458.28846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.36784375,"end":464.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.71784375000004,"end":465.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.94971875000005,"end":467.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.51909375,"end":477.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.94909375000003,"end":475.02846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.15034375000005,"end":478.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.01096875,"end":479.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.97284375000004,"end":483.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.68096875000003,"end":489.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.38034375,"end":491.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.34221875000003,"end":496.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.01659375,"end":499.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.88534375,"end":501.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.70346875,"end":504.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.04909375000005,"end":508.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.82471875000005,"end":511.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.57971875000004,"end":512.5247187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.3134687500001,"end":518.2959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.59971875,"end":518.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.71346875,"end":522.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.83096875,"end":525.1472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.1765937499999,"end":527.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.48846875,"end":541.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.02846875,"end":532.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.1540937500001,"end":537.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.86659375,"end":540.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.48596875,"end":549.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.4978437500001,"end":549.9028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.98721875,"end":551.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.68721875,"end":553.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.64471875,"end":555.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.6147187500001,"end":558.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.36971875,"end":560.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.24284375,"end":561.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.5590937500001,"end":563.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.6897187500001,"end":568.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.0390937500001,"end":571.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.5490937500001,"end":573.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.15221875,"end":575.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.99159375,"end":580.7334687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.07096875,"end":583.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.6865937499999,"end":585.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.6397187499999,"end":589.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.62221875,"end":591.1115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.5334687500001,"end":592.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.5247187500001,"end":595.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.71846875,"end":597.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.19471875,"end":599.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.17346875,"end":601.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.72596875,"end":602.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.73409375,"end":605.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.5859687500001,"end":608.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.89784375,"end":611.9522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.3403437500001,"end":612.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.94784375,"end":613.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.1628437500001,"end":614.55096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.332,"end":4.073,"text":"主席 我請保長好 請林部長保長 你好你好 很辛苦 外交的行為是很辛苦 而且挑戰性很多尤其我們台灣中華民國這八十年來 外交的促進就是全面挑戰"},{"start":32.181,"end":55.31,"text":"但是喔 要不信啦我不要在這個地方去講那個意識形態 沒意義啦你們就在外面那麼辛苦在拚啊再來在這裡亂笑話對不對 要講真心話今天四月初一啦 一月二月三月請問你 你跟你的同齡狗娘有什麼關係"},{"start":59.446,"end":81.739,"text":"你們有出國訪問嗎?我出國過,每次去、回、回、回、回、回常態性的,就是中午生是怎樣?他還要拖到中午、勤拖中午生,大家捏到手臂這叫你講中午生,不然是保盲,鄉鎮保盲最高興的你請他照應,對不對,不然把你三八角"},{"start":85.201,"end":96.83,"text":"不然就不能送家庭這樣就難看了所以他剛才在問你都沒什麼要跟他答應我知道你正中下懷,沒心的對你最好的"},{"start":99.516,"end":116.084,"text":"有啦 進行過啦 新增項目 還是要你大願同意新增項目好啦 你來找我 我就跟你說新增項目我給你支持啦那個 陳導委員 美國這是我們很重要的一個外交的中央不能把派遣的逗陣 管理的逗陣 放卡地盤給大家看尤其是下市下場 去到外國繞一圈 這不好"},{"start":129.469,"end":145.281,"text":"當然不是你做的 裡面有人 他代表啊我個人對他的個人也沒有意見大家都為了中華民國在做事情啊那麼為什麼在他主席 幾年就在跟大家說他八百多萬後備開 開得很壞"},{"start":158.707,"end":187.319,"text":"這是你內部 外部的資料是怎麼可以丟出來的好知道啦 我的解讀是說 老總統要把他挖起來 挖不起來他不會說朱立民代表是非常重要的一個角色不經過美國的同意 你就安心要把他挖起來 哪有那麼簡單的但是你沒有到30點鐘 你出來替他定情你會記得嗎 幾年 你出來替他定情嘛"},{"start":189.844,"end":193.786,"text":"這就是一個陷阱那麼做多久美國以外 日本對我們也很重要你算突破這記憶了這我給你簽訂了日本裡面呢 總之是到大陸建高的時候有一個密切的那就是中華民國的官員 總統 副總統"},{"start":219.602,"end":224.183,"text":"行政議長跟外交部長這四個人不能去訪問老總統擔任副總統的時候去參加安倍首相的家庭這算一個突破歷史第二的突破當然努力很多但是第三個突破"},{"start":244.875,"end":261.282,"text":"對他們來說這就是美中不足 也沒有對等也沒有尊嚴去到那裡 硬硬硬硬回來還給我們放婚照 他們還給我們放公一半就整個安排裡面 沒有我們本來的期待 那麼漂亮這種沒有尊嚴 沒有對等的外交他不是說跟我們做好的台灣有事 就是日本有事為什麼最好會煞車"},{"start":274.588,"end":294.6,"text":"有什麼最好的事情 當然你在這裡不便說這件事 要說突破 我說鬧開照你說 你是安排到一個可以放煙火的結構但是相對 日本也有接觸的很大的壓力你要體諒對方如果這樣 你看可以彌補嗎 有要再邀請一次嗎"},{"start":303.1,"end":312.082,"text":"就已經要重新去看一班救世了嗎你們現在在那裡講出第一句安大 有要去社務救中 去參觀一下嗎你們要安排一班嗎一班去比較有尊嚴 比較對等中華民國的最高行政首長有要安排嗎 為了一件我們要參考你現在叫我去 我幫你加油 幫你挺到這樣"},{"start":334.996,"end":359.09,"text":"有要再安排一遍嗎?因為那個 左院長就有對外說明這個是私人行程私人行程 你回來都說外交大突破跟私人行程我本來是要提案說這個不應該由自己包機啊應該我們給他專機都不為過 怎麼可以讓他發錢咧對不對 不是外交大突破嗎"},{"start":362.25,"end":373.956,"text":"給他加油就加油嘛 國家給他開就開 你看一個行政議長 自己又提前 我去看一張圖這樣變成你過去 你對著外交安排 這裡的勞力團都幫你摸索不需要嘛 勇敢嘛 面對嘛 但是你的關係 不錯就是不錯嘛 這坦白講所有你去問台灣的鄉親就對了 大家對日本的印象都不錯"},{"start":388.556,"end":393.059,"text":"這個管理可以維持,可以突破的時候,你為什麼不敢,勇敢不敢走?為什麼啦?為什麼?你又要安排再度讓道義長,我們的鄉親議長,再度訪問日本嗎?"},{"start":409.059,"end":435.706,"text":"不過委員前面的前提說是什麼安排這個我想卓院長已經有對外說明了這是私人行程你沒辦法再安排他還可以在一個私人行程去關心我們台南子弟在西武隊打棒球的林安可他可以再安排一次私人行程去嗎"},{"start":437.826,"end":461.494,"text":"這委員的意見我們都有會尊重你有沒有要安排沒有啊因為不是我安排的所以我有一隻假說的情緒你外國補充你要給助理代表說啊你沒有要我安排不然你怎麼去你去是什麼地方我當然是我可以自己安排自己啊你可以再去一遍嗎"},{"start":463.407,"end":476.959,"text":"我現在在這裡 外交有很多這個非常微妙的地方我已經講過嘛 你確實已經做了一個很重大的突破嘛照理講 你回來有準修六年嘛 你沒有敲鑼打鼓嘛但事實這是一個在台日期間這五十年來很重要的一個突破"},{"start":492.406,"end":508.035,"text":"你說他們都會聽到,我內行的,我幫你蒙這個就是這樣嘛!不過辛苦,很辛苦啦!可以再度突破嗎?你有要再度去突破跟日本的往來,再度去日本互蒙一遍嗎?謝謝委員的提醒跟期許你不敢把台灣人當他們,不可以我們這麼天理"},{"start":519.838,"end":521.684,"text":"你如果要安排再去一遍 你就不敢這樣你是要做一個外交的戰術"},{"start":529.534,"end":539.002,"text":"外交要有勇氣也要有智慧啊所以這個是非常委員很有智慧你的有智慧的意見我都會放在心上我是傾聽你"},{"start":557.659,"end":580.571,"text":"因為那時候,你能緊張,沒有很扯到,這是對你對外交的恐懼,這點我是跟你很傾聽但是對對方一定會氣一半就對了,每每各各,是各自的很多但是又去對方給我們落魅各個,我們要吞下去,這我也沒辦法他這話我也是要吞下去啦,但是對我們很不公平啦"},{"start":586.75,"end":596.553,"text":"會變成一個憲政議員出門,不對勁,沒尊嚴,開始搜刮事情,不是錢的事情,也不是機票的事情,對不對,轟轟轟轟出來,轟轟轟轟回來,這樣我們不可以給你獎金,所以這是漏氣一機,本來可以得分的,到現在沒那麼多,本來之前被刺殺了,謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168143","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168143","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c78a52d4ac91146f8bd67b93b5004dc02afe627a357cd2d7fab895d7d41794bf65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"11:35:59 - 11:56:59","影片長度":"00:21:00","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:35:59+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:56:59+08:00","duration":1260,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":0.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.105968750000001,"end":9.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.430343750000002,"end":11.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.25909375,"end":26.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.980343750000003,"end":27.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.53721875,"end":28.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.17409375,"end":30.152843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.54471875,"end":34.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.01284375,"end":37.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":37.712843750000005,"end":102.42846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.01909375000001,"end":135.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":129.69846875000002,"end":131.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":134.91284375,"end":137.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.61284375,"end":138.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.54096875000002,"end":138.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.87846875,"end":164.25846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.14346875,"end":144.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.71659375000002,"end":149.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.62971875000002,"end":167.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.50659375,"end":169.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.96221875,"end":194.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.02596875,"end":219.06846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.97971875000002,"end":247.70534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.97534375,"end":275.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.35971875,"end":273.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.51534375,"end":288.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.11659375,"end":306.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":304.10159375,"end":305.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":305.45159375000003,"end":333.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.78471875,"end":333.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":333.95346875,"end":334.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.02096875,"end":334.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":334.45971875000004,"end":335.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.54409375,"end":334.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.20221875000004,"end":335.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.35409375,"end":336.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.42159375,"end":342.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.59346875,"end":343.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.62284375,"end":398.73659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.52534375000005,"end":347.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.37846875,"end":368.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":398.73659375000005,"end":463.24971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":463.77284375000005,"end":497.80971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.87721875000005,"end":510.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.93846875,"end":521.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.27846875,"end":567.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":567.38534375,"end":621.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.73159375,"end":620.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.3347187500001,"end":631.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":621.7734687500001,"end":621.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":621.8915937500001,"end":622.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":630.53159375,"end":637.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.2609687500001,"end":634.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.6828437500001,"end":645.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":645.92159375,"end":739.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.5903437500001,"end":746.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.5134687500001,"end":747.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":746.6315937500001,"end":747.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.84659375,"end":749.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":748.85909375,"end":752.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.21346875,"end":749.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":753.75284375,"end":778.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.9540937500001,"end":762.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":778.9640937500001,"end":778.9809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":778.9809687500001,"end":780.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":780.02721875,"end":781.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.2378437500001,"end":802.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":802.40346875,"end":802.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":802.82534375,"end":802.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":802.85909375,"end":842.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":843.07221875,"end":853.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":854.85096875,"end":857.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":857.8884687500001,"end":874.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":874.4428437500001,"end":947.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":948.5915937500001,"end":968.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":953.2490937500002,"end":953.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":968.92596875,"end":970.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":971.1197187500002,"end":971.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":972.3684687500001,"end":979.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":972.5203437500002,"end":973.2290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":974.2078437500002,"end":977.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":979.32096875,"end":1017.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1018.82534375,"end":1131.1790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1132.3940937500001,"end":1133.2884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1133.30534375,"end":1134.5372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1135.00971875,"end":1148.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1149.4040937500001,"end":1198.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1149.4378437500002,"end":1151.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1153.58909375,"end":1154.0615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1155.81659375,"end":1155.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1197.9197187500001,"end":1220.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1220.22846875,"end":1253.5059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1253.2190937500002,"end":1257.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1258.19721875,"end":1259.9690937500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.113,"end":25.907,"text":"請好謝謝主席部長是不是喝個水休息一下嗎那一樣要有請部長好有請部長謝謝好請鄭部長"},{"start":33.633,"end":49.786,"text":"貝勳請委員好部長好我們來看第一個新聞我們感到很納悶我們看到有相關的新聞報導說國立台中科技大學為什麼要強調國立呢教育部你們的主管業務你們是他們主管我想問一下"},{"start":50.146,"end":70.107,"text":"相關的報導我們後來詢問了教育部問說這個校長到中國去申請補助這件事情有沒有報請教育部同意教育部給我們辦公室的回函說得非常的模糊你們只告訴我相關法規但是你們沒有告訴我台中科大目前的說法是什麼"},{"start":70.828,"end":92.168,"text":"第二個他當時參選的時候他必須要交一些書面資料就是他到底有沒有到中國大陸地區去從事交流呢或者是他有沒有去中國大陸地區做一些講座啦那他哪一些溝有哪一些溝沒有我相信你們手上有資料但是我在看你們給我回覆的資料我覺得非常的荒謬到底有沒有"},{"start":92.788,"end":101.898,"text":"說不清楚相關的法規其實規定的很清楚但是到底這個學校現況如何那教育部接下來如何問責跟確認相關事情到底是不是屬實"},{"start":103.186,"end":129.25,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個台中科大陳校長的這一件案例因為經媒體揭露我們教育部自己指示已經行文要學校把所有的對外界的一個指控要這個先說明清楚等於說要回覆教育部然後我們再根據他的一個回覆我們會到現場裡邊再去做實地的一些這個調查了解"},{"start":130.37,"end":135.634,"text":"我目前 行政程序目前是已經行文要學校針對外界的什麼時候發文 部長 什麼時候發的文"},{"start":139.059,"end":167.151,"text":"大声一点谢谢跟委员报告哦那个报载之后的第二天我们就发文了那你们让他们多久时间回应你们我们就一周内一周那他们回复了吗还没还没好那我听说现在有地方上有声音传出我不确定教育部你们接下来态度会是什么据说台中科技大学的人可能会跟你们说可能然后会说查无事实那你们怎么办假设你们收到这样的回复你们该怎么办"},{"start":169.534,"end":193.406,"text":"那個部長已經指示了我們會主專案小組依據學校所報的他們自己提供的一些資料佐證資料給我們那我們就會實際的主條的根據報導還有你們回覆的這一些我們會去做一些的查核那還有論文的部分國科會也是在做查核"},{"start":193.826,"end":218.817,"text":"所以教育部会跟国客会一起开会吗还是分头并进我们会分头做因为国客会只负责论文好没有问题我觉得这个态度非常的坚定而且非常的清楚有就有没有就没有有犯法就有犯法没有犯法就没有犯法我们从来没有阻止两岸学术交流但是该申报就要申报该遵守法规就要遵守法规我想态度非常的清楚以上谢谢好接下来第二个"},{"start":220.474,"end":247.484,"text":"学生辅导法在修法之后有非常多的执法要修订那我现在回到教文我继续追踪相关进度第一个是相关的要点那我们办公室在召开会议之后我们知道实施要点往下呢会有这个教职员原而编制准则的问题还有专业辅导人设置的办法那这边我想要直接请国教署署长回答署长我想要确认一下原而编制准则跟辅导人设置办法你们目前执法修法进度跟相关公告进度的规划"},{"start":248.004,"end":270.684,"text":"好 謝謝首先在要點的部分會配合原則準則以及下面的第三點在行政院4月9號會審議審議的結果我們會作為補助的依據這是第一點那這個我們預期行政院那一個是我們會尊重行政院審議的結果應該是4月份會審議完所以第一項應該5月份以前會公布"},{"start":271.044,"end":286.223,"text":"好 第一項5月份以前第二項因為它會涉及到最近委員們提到了行政專職化的討論原來我們預定前一個版本在3月31號可以公布但是行政專職化因為部長很關心還是希望我們全面蒐集意見檢討這個我們會在5到6月間公布"},{"start":289.327,"end":298.733,"text":"第二項它是很大規模的那我們會在那個時間公布不希望在可能要更久本來要7月8月我們覺得應該要5月6月讓學校就可以禁用在新學年度前所以我們會在5月6月5月底會完成我們第三項剛才已經報告了書長你完全都知道我要問什麼"},{"start":308.239,"end":331.951,"text":"第一項我沒有問題然後第三項專府人的辦法跟補助辦法4月9號會公佈這個我也沒有問題確實關鍵是他會連動到第二項你剛說這個關於人員員額編制準則他會牽扯到行政人員專職這件事情我認為確實如同剛謝委員所說的很多老師在問可不可以減輕他們行政但是你現在跟我說五六月所以你們決定這個部分需要送交行政院嗎"},{"start":332.771,"end":347.047,"text":"第二項不用送交行政院所以布裡面自己決定就可以了現在主要是在蒐集意見譬如說我們有五條的主要內涵包含說我們要不要讓小學有設副組長我們要不要讓"},{"start":348.309,"end":366.686,"text":"這個關係到緣而編制我們要不要讓變動的學校組織因為少了一個班結果他設組呢結果他大量減組這些能不能夠跟地方政府溝通讓他變動不要這麼大因為他的所有行政事務還是在類似這些有五個項目會後我們給委員那另外專職化也考慮到"},{"start":370.45,"end":396.053,"text":"不要一定要配置正式公務員有沒有可能因為不是設組長他是設人力的專職化能不能夠用契約禁用等等這些都因為涉及到地方政府整體運用人力那我們也覺得是一個新時代比較先進的做法但這五項的精神可能要跟地方政府或有關單位包含人力單位做比較完整的溝通好"},{"start":396.613,"end":423.764,"text":"那相關的進度會繼續跟委員匯報好 謝謝署長這麼清楚的說明我想我們都知道正義的點在哪裡尤其是才化把新版實施之後其實非常多的錢到的地方去我先預告我認為如果你們在這件事情上沒有把態度說清楚到底這些新增的員額編制裡面包含你剛剛說副組長也好還是相關契約的範本也好到底用什麼樣的方法聘請這些行政專職進來我希望教育部的態度要清楚"},{"start":424.204,"end":450.498,"text":"到底錢是地方政府出的還是你們出的因為我們知道國教系統有非常多隸屬地方政府我不希望在選舉這一年到時候很多地方政府因為自己不願意編列相關的預算不願意有所承擔要甩鍋丟包回來教育部就如同之前三張一Q一樣所以我先提醒這件事情也期待國教署跟我們辦公室比較明確剛剛署長您所說的五項回覆以上謝謝好接下來那署長暫時"},{"start":452.799,"end":476.766,"text":"再停一下這邊還是跟你有關再來就關於偏鄉師資的部分我們要謝謝部長之前到TFT參加了一個所謂進論室也就是所謂的偏遠地區學校學士後學分班甚至各式各樣課程規劃的進度那當時我們在講說偏遠地區學校的學士後學分班開班很少報名人數也相對少"},{"start":477.366,"end":496.895,"text":"可是感謝教育部在去年擴大辦理之後呢目前我們看到開班人數都是過去的二到三倍確實看見實務上的需求也謝謝教育部願意開班那我想問關於今年的部分我們什麼進度的規劃跟過去不一樣的做法或是更積極的回應地方老師的需求這個可不可以請部長來說明一下"},{"start":497.935,"end":521.225,"text":"我想我們謝謝委員關心偏鄉的一個教育品質包括師資的來源我們確實在這個偏鄉地區裡邊我們不僅是開學生學問班我們現在還開專班然後這一個用線上的一個甚至這個寒暑假因為我們非常清楚偏鄉的這些老師代理代課老師他們沒有辦法在一般的一個上課日裡邊"},{"start":522.426,"end":543.047,"text":"夜間來上課所以我們大概有更多的除了有專班像原住民地區我們開了原住民的一個工會專班像有一些STEM我們也從請師大開這一個公教的這一些STEM的這些專班然後對偏鄉的我們除了有學士或專班以外我們還有"},{"start":544.248,"end":567.175,"text":"來自於偏鄉的這個特別對金門馬祖澎湖我們也開專班也用線上的來學習理論課我們基本上鼓勵這個失陪單位盡量用線上的一個課然後實務操作的就利用寒暑假讓這些真正對台灣教育人才培育有熱情的這些年輕老師能夠圓他們的夢也能夠一起來守護台灣的教育"},{"start":567.435,"end":586.313,"text":"好 谢谢部长说明的非常清楚确实在去年小教报考人数就变多了那目前我知道可是因为宗教的报考人数仍然寥寥可数我知道教育部今年有放宽说只要四个学期就可以报名可是因为小教现在还是要六个学期我当然知道民间团体有他们的倡议但我想我就简单的说"},{"start":586.773,"end":615.103,"text":"请教育部带回去演绎有没有机会小教从六学期一样改成四学期当然我知道你们认为现在小教已经人满为患也许不需要但我想你们还是可以回去考虑一下第二个要问的是部长关于之前部长也非常喜欢非常在意的是教学实作导向的师资培育试办计划我知道你们有计划在推进跟进行我也想要确定今年的进度大方向是不是会后可以给我们一个报告因为时间有限我就不让部长在这里多说可以吗"},{"start":615.643,"end":635.694,"text":"好 但是我希望相關的同仁要協助部長積極推進這件事情因為部長也非常在意嘛對 對 對我想這個是非常有價值的我們也看到國際的經驗所以我想它會變成我們另外的一個實施培育的重點也許也比較適合現在現場的食物困境很多如果老師們邊做邊學"},{"start":637.855,"end":649.501,"text":"這些年輕畢業的學生他們充滿對教育的熱情數量非常大我們希望他們能夠投入接下來謝謝部長接下來問這個關於9任獎金的部分因為已經開始發放了也謝謝署長之前國教署署長這邊願意放寬認定獎金請領資"},{"start":657.885,"end":672.285,"text":"可是呢當我們在細部盤點之後發現9任獎金還是有一些問題那我認為應該沒有辦法在今天質詢台上給我回覆可是我還是要把問題提出來拜託部長甚至請關心的委員一起來關心來偏鄉教育獎金現在發現幾個困境來第一個"},{"start":674.187,"end":700.896,"text":"任職的同為偏鄉可是他跑到不同學校去了可能沒有辦法請領第二個任職的同為偏鄉可是跑到不同縣市去了也沒有辦法請領第三個現在的狀況是這樣喔署長你聽聽看公立學校的附設幼兒園可以支領可是偏鄉的公立幼兒園沒有辦法支領第四個可能是我們無力華委員也會關心的目前有非常多足語的老師還有"},{"start":701.516,"end":723.619,"text":"新著名语言的支援老师他可能长期在一个偏乡支援这些母语的教学但是他可能是因为待课的性质或是原本不在偏乡条例里面所以他完全没有办法支领这个偏乡九任奖金我们想要在这个第一线失事匮乏的当下跟署长跟部长反映我们有没有机会"},{"start":724.119,"end":752.438,"text":"召開相關會議去把這些樣態都盤點完然後有沒有機會在預算可支應的情況下更加的開放讓這些9任的偏鄉老師都可以實質的受到這些獎金的鼓勵來 署長謝謝委員關心我想我們目前委員所關心的幾個樣態我們基本上都已經已經改變了也就是說沒有沒有 部長我剛剛講的都沒有的我剛剛講的就是沒有我才講出來"},{"start":754.1,"end":773.093,"text":"真的部長剛剛委員報告剛剛部長的意思是說在部長的理念跟3月5號的文都可以處理但是有一些認定因為在細節的操作面是不是容我把剛才講的公立幼兒園不是附幼以及剛剛足以老師他的身份認定這會涉及到地方政府可能在認定上他的權限他會認為他有到那麼大嗎這個由我們來跟他開會開完幾個個案之後我們把它變成問題會編就可以全國通用你講到關鍵那問題會編什麼時候要開始修訂"},{"start":783.084,"end":802.196,"text":"問題會變現在是逐期可以公佈我們每半個月會公佈一次因為最近這個新制度部長很關心希望能夠盡量照顧多一點的我們的夥伴所以3月5號那個文已經非常的放寬並且授權但是認定上怕地方政府還怕有治案所以我們會定期召開每15天會公佈一個新版的QA"},{"start":802.896,"end":831.141,"text":"同時也請副本給舊愛文化委員會所有委員包含辦公室我認為偏鄉老師這些部分非常多委員會關心為什麼要這樣講我們當時立這個9月偏鄉獎金我們到底在意的是穩定師資指的到底是指整體的偏鄉師資還是個別學校當時的版本比較看起來是照顧個別學校但我認為在時過境遷這麼多年之後其實所有整體偏鄉的師資穩定這件事情變得非常非常重要謝謝部長跟署長好最後一個題目"},{"start":832.581,"end":856.709,"text":"今年是實驗教育修法三法上路已經十年了那有越來越多的學生走出所謂的主流體制但我認為所有進到所謂實驗教育三法不管是個人自學、機構自學還是團體自學有非常多的困境都已經在十年後開始浮現了我等署長講完我怕部長沒有聽到我講的"},{"start":857.947,"end":873.594,"text":"好很多困境浮現包含來第一個很多縣市政府他們本來有很多空出來的教室跟場地應該優先提供給這些自學機構申請但是很多地方政府置之不理他們不友善的不接受這些申請非常可惜再來"},{"start":874.874,"end":899.145,"text":"很多地方政府面對不同的機構之間有大小眼我們也不知道為什麼例如說作為公辦公營或是公辦民營完全態度不同接下來就是我們在特教法跟學復法修法完之後有非常多自學機構裡面的老師跟家長遇到孩子沒有特教的需求跟輔導的需求完全沒有辦法在這個體制裡面受到照顧我認為10年前很多人認為走進實驗教育的小孩叫做體制外錯"},{"start":900.305,"end":914.68,"text":"我希望從現在開始大家重新去想一個念頭就是實驗教育三法所照顧的都是我們的孩子這些孩子因為有法他們都叫體制內所以認為既然是體制內在十年後的今天我們應該要開啟修法的座談會跟討論"},{"start":916.281,"end":936.292,"text":"這個部分我要先提醒部長我們來看一下實驗教育人數逆勢成長在學生總數5年少了27萬的同時有越來越多人走出校園走到實驗教育三法所照顧的機構裡面這件事情我認為非同小可尤其輔導資源跟特教資源都照顧不了這些小孩"},{"start":936.852,"end":947.418,"text":"我認為這是我們要檢討的部分我知道部長今天應該沒有辦法回答那我就簡單說到這邊我希望後續教育部可以開啟修法的討論我們辦公室也會實質的推進想聽一下部長的態度"},{"start":948.783,"end":970.342,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心實驗教育三法確實它是一個民主的象徵是沒錯就說我們過去就單一的一個思維我們民主本來就是多元所以我們因應這一個所謂的個別差異能夠因材施教我想實驗三法它某種程度上補助等於說在輔助這一個"},{"start":972.701,"end":987.82,"text":"應該是說他照顧了不同學習樣態的家庭跟孩子的需求能夠兼顧到個人需求對 而且這個個人需求我認為不再那麼個人囉你看這個數字就知道其實非常非常的明顯了接下來這一題我覺得很難但是我要告訴部長"},{"start":988.28,"end":1017.344,"text":"现在教育部面对的困境是这个就是台语沉浸幼儿园的问题我们来看一下我们发现在教育部的很多作为上其实非常的消极那我们办公室一直在想我们不是只有提出问题我们也很试着很想跟教育部一起努力提出解方那我们就找了课委会来讨论而且请教了现场的专家学者来下一张我们办公室就开了这个座谈会我们邀请了课委会来告诉我们现在课委会他们的做法是什么呢来课委会的做法我们来看下一张"},{"start":1018.994,"end":1034.846,"text":"關於教保員的部分呢 在幼兒園的部分 課委會他們就要求教保員的語言門檻必須要在客語中高級以上能力 但是在台語幼兒園完全沒有那在教保員的培訓機制呢 課委會有一套機制非常的完整 可是我們看到台語的部分完全沒有 只有演習"},{"start":1035.746,"end":1052.752,"text":"再來呢語言陪伴的制度呢台語的部分是顧問制而且不可以入班可是客委會他從中央到地方都有專業輔導團甚至有客語陪伴員還有教師互助社群再來資訊獲取的管道呢目前台語幼兒園的老師跟教保員告訴我們分散他們要自己去找"},{"start":1053.152,"end":1080.194,"text":"可是我们看到课委会非常认真做专属网站跟一站式的资源其实不是只有教育部现在面临这个困境我们问了原民会跟课委会跟教育部之间你们在协助成立这些所谓的国家语言的学校机制上其实从来没有一个平台去讨论这个事情那如果整体的环境跟有越来越多的家长有意识不论他是希望他的小孩进入所谓课委会这课语的幼儿园还是台语幼儿园甚至我们未来"},{"start":1080.994,"end":1101.385,"text":"在部落裡頭會有非常多原住民語言的幼兒園這些事情如果我們的教育部跟課委會跟園民會沒有一個好的經驗交流甚至成果分享我認為在教育部這邊會依然可能三五年後看到都會是同一個狀況那我們辦公室也做了研究做了多座談所以我想要快速給教育部幾個建議我們辦公室也會持續的追蹤"},{"start":1102.185,"end":1130.639,"text":"第一個我們希望你們積極跟課委會已經有做出成效的原民會還有文化部就國家語言的部分進行經驗分享跟交流第二個教育部如果沒有中央輔導團以學術研究跟論述作為基底協助開發課程模組教具教材輔導資源我認為現場老師困境很大還有教育部如何跟地方政府專家學者研議成立地方輔導團還有陪伴員再來台語教保資訊平台相關計畫的一站式網站現在依然是沒有的講了這麼多"},{"start":1132.438,"end":1147.166,"text":"千頭萬緒我只是要告訴部長我們不是只是來提出問題我們也請教了課委會謝謝課委會還有那個屏東大學的老師給我們非常多好的建議我這邊把這些建議交給部長我想要請教一部積極去研議三個月內給我們規劃報告可以嗎"},{"start":1149.428,"end":1154.47,"text":"這個資料我們可以再送交教育部張腾業提相關報告OK的可是我也不用這個機會跟委員報告我們從去年的9月開始已經透過全國這個22個教育局處所長的一個會議裡邊已經有宣示從幼兒園裡邊從語言上的一個"},{"start":1167.515,"end":1184.755,"text":"等於說這個社區語言的一個共通性開始這一個不管是台語或者客語或者原住民語就幼兒園裡面它變成一個老師一個很重要的一個跟幼兒的教學裡面很重要的一個語言的一個界面那我們也"},{"start":1185.576,"end":1201.815,"text":"這一個請這一個國教署這個不定期的到各地方學校這個幼兒園去訪視希望這一個本土園 國家園的一個推動能夠從幼兒園就開始 前面來推我知道時間有限 再給我三四秒部長你剛剛講的我完全認同你在局處會議上"},{"start":1202.816,"end":1220.304,"text":"用宣誓的方法可是一旦所有老師要動起來教保員要動起來他就需要我剛講的這些事情他需要教材他需要資源他需要網站他需要陪伴他需要相關的輔導機制協助他去落實部長的宣誓跟交代所以部長這邊該做的事情我們一起努力"},{"start":1220.404,"end":1241.05,"text":"是的我想這個輔導團裡面包含許多教材的開發我們當然都一直持續在做地方現在也有一定程度的做得非常非常不錯像去年全國舉辦的這個本土語言本土的教材的一個開發我也到現場去看到各縣市其實在這個部分他們還真的是都"},{"start":1241.85,"end":1254.021,"text":"做的有許多的具體的一個成果我想會後我們除了委員的建議我們來深化以外有一些東西我想我也跟我們會後也來跟委員做一個更詳細的報告好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳培雲委員請部長回座"}]}},{"id":"168142","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168142","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c67a04d5b55091a227570c8d4d2e9dc78afe627a357cd2d7f6eb0d0d8684cdce65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"11:25:25 - 11:53:49","影片長度":"00:28:24","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:25:25+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:53:49+08:00","duration":1704,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.72159375,"end":15.910343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.090968750000002,"end":21.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.57596875,"end":32.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.95409375,"end":38.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.96159375,"end":39.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.16409375,"end":39.720968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.75471875,"end":39.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.78846875,"end":47.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.039718750000006,"end":52.562843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":53.65971875,"end":56.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.64659375,"end":58.24971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.24971875000001,"end":65.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.283468750000004,"end":58.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":68.69534375,"end":72.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.47534375000001,"end":84.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":84.03471875000001,"end":88.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.92846875000001,"end":90.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.97034375000001,"end":91.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.98284375,"end":100.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.99971875,"end":93.28221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.44534375,"end":102.83346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.50846875,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":105.22971875,"end":105.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.02284375,"end":106.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.44471875,"end":106.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.46159375,"end":107.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.74409375,"end":116.94096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.73409375000001,"end":118.81409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.59034375,"end":121.80096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.96971875000001,"end":122.86409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.21846875000001,"end":150.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.04534375,"end":153.74534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.15034375000002,"end":154.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.21784375000001,"end":154.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.02346875,"end":156.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":156.34409375,"end":157.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.96409375000002,"end":158.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":158.28471875,"end":158.33534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.33534375000002,"end":158.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":158.48721875,"end":163.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.49471875,"end":166.75596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.32971875,"end":177.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.53846875000002,"end":181.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.28096875,"end":182.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":182.31471875000003,"end":182.77034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.77034375000002,"end":185.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":185.21721875,"end":185.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.38596875000002,"end":185.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":185.48721875,"end":188.25471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":188.82846875,"end":198.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":198.97034375,"end":205.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":206.26034375,"end":210.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":210.73221875000002,"end":211.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":211.64346875,"end":213.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":214.12409375000001,"end":218.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.23721875,"end":224.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.72221875000002,"end":221.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.82284375,"end":230.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.09284375000001,"end":225.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.45909375000002,"end":243.99284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":245.03909375,"end":248.14409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.13534375,"end":252.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.97034375,"end":286.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":287.58096875,"end":289.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":290.09534375000004,"end":291.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.17096875000004,"end":295.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":296.65971875,"end":302.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.03659375,"end":328.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":328.85721875,"end":346.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.82909375,"end":365.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.02409375,"end":383.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":383.97096875,"end":388.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.57784375,"end":390.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":389.62409375000004,"end":409.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":410.51534375,"end":411.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":411.37596875,"end":412.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.47721875,"end":421.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":421.97346875000005,"end":425.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.63534375,"end":426.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":426.07409375000003,"end":428.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":428.77409375,"end":434.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.08534375000005,"end":435.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":435.65909375,"end":444.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":446.20596875,"end":447.67409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.91034375000004,"end":448.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.73721875,"end":448.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":448.97346875000005,"end":449.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.54721875,"end":449.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.96909375,"end":450.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.13784375,"end":450.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.20534375000005,"end":450.23909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.23909375000005,"end":450.66096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.69471875000005,"end":450.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.76221875000005,"end":450.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.77909375,"end":452.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.81284375,"end":451.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":451.80846875000003,"end":459.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.26721875000004,"end":459.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":460.07721875000004,"end":462.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":463.14846875,"end":489.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":490.01346875,"end":502.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.51784375000005,"end":502.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.60221875,"end":502.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":504.15471875000003,"end":505.50471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":505.74096875000004,"end":509.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":509.85846875000004,"end":547.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.9072187500001,"end":551.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.94471875,"end":570.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":569.4778437500001,"end":570.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":570.3047187500001,"end":570.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.5747187500001,"end":570.6084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":570.6084687499999,"end":570.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.64221875,"end":570.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":570.94596875,"end":579.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.5872187500001,"end":571.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":579.07971875,"end":582.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":583.19721875,"end":590.5715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":591.04409375,"end":593.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.42346875,"end":609.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":608.6615937500001,"end":609.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.2353437500001,"end":609.8090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":609.8090937500001,"end":609.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.89346875,"end":609.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":609.9778437500001,"end":614.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":614.97284375,"end":616.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":616.9640937500001,"end":619.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.4909687500001,"end":621.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.57096875,"end":636.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":635.30721875,"end":648.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.5034687500001,"end":651.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":652.1484687500001,"end":653.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":654.02159375,"end":657.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":658.25721875,"end":675.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":676.09409375,"end":677.5790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.7478437500001,"end":698.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.97909375,"end":683.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":695.3484687499999,"end":696.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":697.77846875,"end":717.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.87659375,"end":741.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":730.7522187500001,"end":732.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.3328437499999,"end":744.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.5222187500001,"end":744.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":744.5390937500001,"end":750.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.18034375,"end":745.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.12909375,"end":749.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":750.2934687500001,"end":765.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":753.8203437500001,"end":754.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.7509687500001,"end":771.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":771.3872187500001,"end":781.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":782.0690937500001,"end":786.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":786.2878437500001,"end":790.4897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":790.8272187500002,"end":792.5147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":793.13909375,"end":796.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":794.13471875,"end":802.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":802.80846875,"end":809.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":809.7778437500001,"end":847.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":848.10096875,"end":852.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":852.47159375,"end":863.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":861.87096875,"end":862.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":863.01846875,"end":870.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":866.49471875,"end":866.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":870.44346875,"end":877.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":877.76721875,"end":877.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":878.07096875,"end":896.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":896.3803437500001,"end":896.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":897.0890937500001,"end":899.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":899.28284375,"end":899.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":899.6540937500001,"end":899.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":899.97471875,"end":901.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":902.9109687500002,"end":903.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":910.97721875,"end":929.6240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":929.8603437500001,"end":935.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":935.9522187500002,"end":936.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":936.0872187500001,"end":940.0022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":940.5928437500002,"end":944.9128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":945.3347187500001,"end":945.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":945.9084687500001,"end":946.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":946.4653437500001,"end":970.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":971.0522187500001,"end":983.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":983.4890937500002,"end":1005.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1005.62909375,"end":1010.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1011.1303437500001,"end":1014.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1015.1128437500001,"end":1020.7153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1021.10346875,"end":1059.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1059.94971875,"end":1060.0172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1060.33784375,"end":1060.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1060.35471875,"end":1060.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1060.3884687500001,"end":1060.9790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1062.1097187500002,"end":1093.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1093.96971875,"end":1118.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1118.30346875,"end":1123.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1123.8553437500002,"end":1126.6397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1126.74096875,"end":1131.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1131.5672187500002,"end":1136.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1132.78221875,"end":1132.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1132.90034375,"end":1132.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1132.91721875,"end":1132.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1132.93409375,"end":1133.0184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1133.0184687500002,"end":1133.1534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1136.8828437500001,"end":1242.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1160.17034375,"end":1161.9759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1184.9765937500001,"end":1185.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1207.2684687500002,"end":1207.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1232.90159375,"end":1234.0997187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1243.29659375,"end":1260.6609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1260.6609687500002,"end":1272.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1272.0347187500001,"end":1295.9634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1278.6497187500001,"end":1278.7003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1289.02784375,"end":1291.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1295.9634687500002,"end":1295.9972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1295.9972187500002,"end":1296.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1296.0984687500002,"end":1297.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1297.87034375,"end":1297.9378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1298.17409375,"end":1302.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1303.1184687500001,"end":1303.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1303.5572187500002,"end":1309.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1309.98659375,"end":1311.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1310.96534375,"end":1311.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1311.10034375,"end":1311.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1311.25221875,"end":1311.2859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1311.2859687500002,"end":1324.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1324.73534375,"end":1328.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1325.7815937500002,"end":1328.0428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1328.51534375,"end":1329.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1330.05096875,"end":1334.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1335.3328437500002,"end":1335.3497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1335.3497187500002,"end":1342.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1342.7578437500001,"end":1347.5672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1348.5290937500001,"end":1349.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1351.3809687500002,"end":1356.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1358.50221875,"end":1362.7547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1363.7503437500002,"end":1366.3153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1366.6865937500002,"end":1379.5453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1373.8753437500002,"end":1375.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1381.5872187500001,"end":1382.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1383.3422187500003,"end":1400.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1389.11346875,"end":1389.7715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1400.8922187500002,"end":1401.4322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1401.5503437500001,"end":1402.5628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1402.8328437500002,"end":1403.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1403.9803437500002,"end":1405.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1406.42721875,"end":1408.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1411.9453437500001,"end":1423.9265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1423.9265937500002,"end":1429.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1426.10346875,"end":1427.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1428.3984687500001,"end":1438.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1438.6753437500001,"end":1441.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1441.15596875,"end":1446.0328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1441.6284687500001,"end":1442.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1446.52221875,"end":1478.5509687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1470.6534687500002,"end":1471.3790937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1471.3790937500003,"end":1471.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1471.54784375,"end":1471.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1478.6522187500002,"end":1542.2203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1494.8522187500002,"end":1494.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1494.86909375,"end":1494.9534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1494.9534687500002,"end":1494.9703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1494.9703437500002,"end":1495.0040937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1529.78346875,"end":1532.7872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1534.6097187500002,"end":1534.6265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1542.7772187500002,"end":1625.2959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1569.4734687500002,"end":1569.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1569.54096875,"end":1569.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1569.96284375,"end":1570.0472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1572.5784687500002,"end":1576.1390937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1601.2828437500002,"end":1602.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1626.3253437500002,"end":1628.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1628.5190937500001,"end":1635.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1636.6865937500002,"end":1637.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1637.0240937500002,"end":1637.2940937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1638.03659375,"end":1642.0359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1642.3228437500002,"end":1653.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1653.9665937500001,"end":1688.7797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1689.08346875,"end":1690.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1690.92284375,"end":1691.2603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1691.32784375,"end":1702.4990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1696.27221875,"end":1699.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1703.2584687500002,"end":1705.1484687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.972,"end":15.876,"text":"謝謝主席 那我們先請這個我們行政院的副秘書長 李副秘書長你好李副秘好 我想從這次的研會刑的個案我想大家都非常關心所以我想要先請教一下 這個"},{"start":33.539,"end":47.616,"text":"請問這個特任官顏惠欣副總談判代表是前年的五月底上任嘛五月底上任嘛 對那請問他上任的人是不是因為談判辦公室的作業疏失導致他被延誤兩個星期才上任有嗎"},{"start":53.7,"end":65.093,"text":"你不曉得沒關係你曉得就說曉得不曉得就說不曉得這個訊息我們不曉得那請問一下李副委這個編制上副總談判代表有沒有專任的秘書"},{"start":68.74,"end":91.806,"text":"但是以下的問題都是你知道就說知道,不知道就說不知道沒關係因為他是台美會的主任委員,那他是兼任副總談判的代表所以基本上我們是應該是沒有配秘書的沒有專任秘書那他第一天上班就被拋銷這件事情行政院有沒有掌握這個我們不清楚,我們是看到媒體報導才知道"},{"start":93.646,"end":100.031,"text":"好,那再來呢,我想要請教一下李副秘書長,特仁館的顏慧欣副總談判代表是何時開始請病假的?不知道?去年9月的時候呢,就不細細。好,那請問一下他在這個今年2月19號,是大年初三的時候,在病榻前寫的這個辭職信,請問一下行政院是何時收到這封辭職信的?"},{"start":119.782,"end":139.627,"text":"那請問卓院長有沒有交辦這件事情?跟委員報告,那卓院長昨天回答王育敏委員的質詢的時候呢那他是有這樣子說啦,說他2月19號的時候呢那嚴副總有把這個訊息傳給行政院那個院長室的幕僚,那幕僚有把這個訊息給院長看"},{"start":141.187,"end":161.913,"text":"那院長對他表達關心,但是也希望他好好休息休息好以後,病好以後,能夠繼續為國來效力所以換言之是沒有處理這個實質性?我們不知道你不知道就回答不知道沒關係,我就是在釐清一些問題而已"},{"start":164.557,"end":177.303,"text":"所以這個我想要請教一下那今年的2月23是年後上班的第一天那到了3月12號這個顏副總代表他辭世請問你們有什麼中間有什麼任何的作為嗎"},{"start":181.533,"end":198.376,"text":"沒有不曉得因為我們根本不知道這個訊息所以其實我想要表達的就是今天的報告說行政院是3月26號才開始啟動調查嘛對不對那也就是說在3月24號的這種霸凌案被揭露之後"},{"start":199.096,"end":217.855,"text":"被媒體揭露之後被媒體逼出來之後才在兩天的時間說要開始有動作所以這就是突顯出從這個個案突顯出整個這個行政的失靈然後也突顯出行政院的一個冷漠無作為"},{"start":219.281,"end":243.756,"text":"跟委員報告因為這過了很這個看起來這時間過了非常的久啊然後也是被媒體揭露之後才開始兩天的時間才開始說好那我們要來啟動調查我們事實上也是3月26號看到那個Tree的報導的時候他那個詳細的揭露那些事情的時候我們知悉這件事情我們馬上就組成那個專案小組要來釐清事實對所以你不覺得這裡面哪裡疏漏了嗎"},{"start":250.529,"end":259.063,"text":"因為我們是真的3月26號才知道的所以你這樣的講法就會讓這個我們覺得說那行政院長明明就知道了2月19號就知道了怎麼過了這麼多這麼久的時間沒有交辦沒有去請"},{"start":264.029,"end":286.462,"text":"這個下面的去相關了解這個案情的事情好等到媒體報了之後才匆匆的說我們趕快來調查這就是我今天想要從這個個案推出來讓大家覺得說哇這個很很嘩然喔讓社會嘩然怎麼會行政院長自己本身已經知道這件事情居然沒有請責成下下面的人去了解去關心"},{"start":287.768,"end":300.124,"text":"這就是現在大家在討論一個這個時間點的問題所以這部分我想要再進一步從這個個案推到這個系統性的問題我想要再請這個保訓會的處長保訓會處長"},{"start":315.08,"end":327.941,"text":"好 我想要請問兩位就是你們可以看是誰的執掌來負責回答所以首先我想要請教根據你們的114年度的職場霸凌防治執行的情形調查表"},{"start":328.905,"end":346.025,"text":"就是更深入探討了霸凌行為的層級關係跟行為樣態那表上呢也有顯示這個此項調查是自114年的7月1日到12月31日指對不對然後要求各機關詳時記錄所有受理的情形"},{"start":346.886,"end":364.704,"text":"那這個統計的框架不僅包含了案件數啦也更深入的這個探討了霸凌行為的層級關係行為樣態那你們最後要求的截止通報日是3月31號那今天是4月1號是不是想必你們資料是已經有收集完成了對嗎"},{"start":368.055,"end":388.261,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分因為還有少數的主管機關他還在彙整中像是一些縣市政府因為他下面所有機關其實很多那所以我們有已經在31號的時候我們另外有在行文去催請大家所以等於是說你本來說3月31號要要求這些資料回來是還很多人沒有繳回來是這個意思嗎"},{"start":388.621,"end":408.643,"text":"一部分 並沒有很多 就一部分是不是因為其實我們就是 我本席也有在上週就有跟相關的單位包含人事總書有去索資喔 那目前我是沒有得到回應所以我這邊想要請教喔 第一個就是根據你們目前為止的資料喔你們統計的案件數前三名的部會是哪幾個"},{"start":410.543,"end":427.671,"text":"目前你們報告目前我們收到了其實還不齊全啊我們後續在整個整體收完之後我們還要再做進一步通所以目前還不知道是好所以你也沒辦法評估說哪三哪三個是案件比較多的是好那再來第二個問題"},{"start":428.837,"end":444.773,"text":"就是職場霸凌的申訴數量總共是多少結案數是多少你現在等於也沒辦法回答是那再來第三個我想要了解的事情是職場霸凌申訴後霸凌者行這個處分的份件數有幾件你們也沒有現在也都沒有有沒有初步的數據也都沒有"},{"start":448.991,"end":459.417,"text":"這部分可能都得要等三月份的這一份那我剛剛問的這三個問題就是我本席想要希望你們等這個資料回來之後提供給本席辦公室讓我們瞭解好不好是"},{"start":460.137,"end":488.704,"text":"因為這份表格其實我覺得是相對相關是蠻完整的我希望你們可以盡快到時候去識別化之後也定期的公佈那我也想要提醒這個表格其實明確的也有規定說114年的7月1日前所有的案件數均不記錄所以事實上你們到現在還沒有辦法完全的拿到這些資料我也很好奇喔因為這個明明就已經這段時間已經很久了並不是說這個中間持續增加的還要他們"},{"start":490.835,"end":502.612,"text":"還要他們再補上去所以你也給了很多的時間了這個部分要請你落實去追蹤要求相關的部會誰還沒有交回來的哪一些地方政府還沒交回來的你要趕快去跟他們要求好不好是"},{"start":504.209,"end":528.886,"text":"好那再來就是我想要最後我也想要詢問監察院有指出這個許多的機關的人事處在接受到霸凌陳情的時候常常為了顧及長官的顏面將其歸類為一般申訴導致案情沒有辦法進入法定的防護小組甚至也有報導指出這個經濟部的技術司案中即便有監察院的報告背書"},{"start":529.887,"end":546.842,"text":"內部仍然會傳出說抓吹哨者的這個吹哨者的這個風聲那這反映出來我們公務機關其實在這個文化裡面對於異議的聲音極度的不受不耐受導致內部修正機制完全失靈請問這件事要怎麼改善"},{"start":548.953,"end":570.884,"text":"各位委員報告依照這個公務人員保障法跟安慰辦法的規定其實各機關對於提出職場霸凌申訴的人都不能給予不利對待或不合理的處分那相對於這件事情其實在保障法跟安慰辦法上路之後保訓會也陸續的到各個機關去做宣導跟教育我跟你說有一個很根本的問題"},{"start":571.704,"end":592.17,"text":"就是你可以看到這個通報制度其實是有問題的有很多基層的公務員向本辦公室反映他說現場現在的這個職場霸凌案件通報平台你要給不是要給他自然人憑證就是要建保卡但事實上也根本沒有人敢實名的使用啊對不對那這部分你要怎麼處理"},{"start":593.45,"end":619.231,"text":"跟委員報告依照我們安慰辦法的規定提出職場霸凌申訴其實本來就應該要具名申訴的也是避免說機關可能被少數的這個不當的爆料或者是不實的指控而導致整個行政作業上面的事但是也是發生了這個問題嘛所以這個第一線也發生了所謂的實名通報會讓人家不敢通報那你這部分你有什麼改善的想法"},{"start":620.512,"end":647.844,"text":"是 那以目前來說我們都是要求各機關在收到職場霸凌申訴的時候都要在10天內去決定是否要受理同時他應該要通報上級機關那如果機關違反這樣的規定依照保障法沒有啊 你這個規定都是一樣我懂你要表達的就是說你的規定依照這樣走可是現在就是發生了這個事嘛就是說他不敢通報嘛因為他怕通報上去他會知道說他通報了誰然後去指控他的"},{"start":648.624,"end":674.992,"text":"上級以後有不利對待他以後可能會被會被這個針對所以剛剛也有委員提到之前洪宣安部長就說不然你就直接直接寄到我的信箱我來直接來處理那請問你們現在這個部分你有什麼精進的想法或是作為因為大家就不信任這個還是你可以跟他們說請大家放心你這個你這個你這個東西到我這裡來絕對不會外洩外洩了會發生什麼事你這部分有辦法"},{"start":676.107,"end":705.06,"text":"承諾或者是怎麼改善嗎跟委員報告其實我們現在目前也在建置資產霸凌的申訴平台那這個平台建置之後其實所有的人他都可以以他的自然人憑證或者是健保卡直接在我們的平台上面做申訴那申訴之後他的案件就會記錄在那個平台上那你申訴完了之後上級機關也會收到你申訴完之後你要怎麼確保這件事情這樣或者是你要再去宣導說跟這些這個相關的公務部門的同仁說"},{"start":705.74,"end":728.499,"text":"你去用這個自然人憑證或是你用健保卡你來了我怎麼用保密機制讓你確保你的這個身份不會外洩不會被你的相關的直屬長官知道這個部分你們會怎麼做是這當然就關系到我們後續這個系統怎麼建制那以及我們也會對於那些可以使用這套系統的人的權限也會做劃分"},{"start":728.999,"end":745.825,"text":"那你要怎麼做 你現在有具體一點系統上 原則上啦 機關在看到這筆申訴案的時候其實他只會接收到有一筆申訴案 可是他不會去讀到就是讀到他實際上的申訴內容你說誰會拿到這個他有一筆申訴案 你說長官會說他被申訴了"},{"start":750.767,"end":770.422,"text":"機關通常都會有一個職場霸凌的申訴窗口那那個窗口的負責人我們就會給他一個權限讓他可以定期的去看一下那個系統上是不是有職場霸凌的申訴案那他看到那個申訴案之後他就可以知道是申訴人跟被申訴人但是他沒有辦法見到實際上的具體內容"},{"start":771.443,"end":792.07,"text":"申訴人跟被申訴人就是最大的問題啦不是嗎如果他在同一個機關裡你的譬如說我舉個例子就是我們紅部長假設你有一個司長他去申訴了然後到了這個部會裡面然後這個窗口知道說這個紅部長你被某司長申訴囉那這樣子不就會造成了他們不敢申報的原因嗎"},{"start":793.515,"end":808.596,"text":"這不就是現在我提出來的問題嗎就算是現在用書面上做申訴那個申訴的窗口他一定要知道是誰被誰申訴嘛那他才能再往後續把整個案件提交到防護委員會去做討論"},{"start":809.838,"end":823.778,"text":"所以你這個勿填這個機制會不會發生我剛剛說的這個問題就是申訴的從一個單位裡面的這個窗口他收到有申訴案了那知道某長官被某下屬這個申訴了那這個事情就可能會在那個機關單位傳出去"},{"start":824.94,"end":828.804,"text":"那傳出去之後大家就更不敢去申訴這件事所以我剛剛說從個案我們來檢討整個系統的問題這個系統現在是有問題的我是不是可以請你們回去把我的意見帶回去你們到底要怎麼做到不管是匿名匿名申報也好或者是你要用一個機制去告訴這些人說我這個絕對不會洩漏或者是洩漏了之後這個人要負什麼責任"},{"start":848.3,"end":866.603,"text":"這個部分你們是不是可以回去檢討然後給本席一個具體的方案可以跟委員報告依照我們安慰辦法的規定本來調查小組跟所有參與這項調查整個程序過程的人都具有保密義務所以你說這個所以你這個窗口本身就是也不能夠有透露"},{"start":866.963,"end":896.447,"text":"那他如果透露了之後他會有什麼責任當然會違反安慰辦法的規定那同時他可能也有公務人員考積法公務員服務法的相關追究好那你就要去好好的宣傳你給本席一個修改的建議修正的建議之後你也必須去各個單位機關跟這些公務人員跟他們掛保證說你要跟他說這件事情你去申訴了你用證人憑證申訴了你去實名申訴了你絕對不會有得到不利對待是"},{"start":897.15,"end":901.239,"text":"是不是 你要去做這件事那接下來我要請洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":911.88,"end":939.418,"text":"來 部長好我想要請教一下有關公安和老安的部分那依照勞動檢查法的第五條這個由中央主管機關設勞動檢查機構或授權直轄市主管機關或有關機關專設勞動檢查機構辦理之對不對那授權之勞動檢查依法依本法啦 因依本法有關的規定辦理並受中央主管機關之指揮和"},{"start":940.907,"end":941.77,"text":"監督 你們確實是有監督的權責 對嗎"},{"start":945.427,"end":968.543,"text":"是是好那根據這個你們在2025年的7月8號也有個新聞稿你們明確的定義說多次發生災害勞動檢查的機構也就是你們的職安署或與地方政府應該要擴大停工範圍並加嚴復工審查那是不是這樣子是那也顯見勞動部具有監督的責任對嗎"},{"start":971.107,"end":988.101,"text":"本來就有對本來就有好那我就想要請教一下因為衛科在高雄有某特定的建案那他已經屬於定類的危險性工作場所那麼他在2024年的3月2024年3月的時候有發生板模坍塌"},{"start":989.102,"end":999.686,"text":"而且在2025年的11月4日又發生這個工人高樓墜落死亡意外那其實已經符合你們所謂的多次發生災害的範疇那依照你們的規定應該要擴大停工範圍加強稽查那麼為何又在2026年呢他1月11號又發生了第三起"},{"start":1011.192,"end":1032.99,"text":"工地這個高處天降鐵板的意外然後你們在兩天內就有予以復工不管是你或地方政府有予以復工所以導致最後在兩個月後在2026年的3月24號第四度發生天降鋼板的意外砸死人這個時候就砸死人所以"},{"start":1034.05,"end":1060.672,"text":"這兩年內發生這個公安意外兩人死亡那你們治安署去年的督導考評中有沒有針對這個高雄勞檢處的復工審查流程提出過糾正或者是警告或者對於這兩年這四起反覆造災的這個高風險的工地中央有沒有啟動過任何專案督導或是書面要求或是復工的這個流程的檢視或考評的扣分"},{"start":1062.288,"end":1091.083,"text":"跟委員報告我們確實在停復工要點去年有修正那我們的認定還是職業災害就職業職安法裡面所定義的職業災害那剛剛委員提到的這些案件就我們所知有部分的案件經過這個法官法醫或是檢察官他認定不是因工作引起的那就不會回到我們剛剛提到的這個這個停復工要點因為我們認定是職業災害對如果最近這一切是職業災害沒有錯"},{"start":1091.943,"end":1121.234,"text":"好這個等一下我們會回來講我覺得這個是有一個流程上會有會發生問題喔所以其實你們也有說這個設施不良造災其他相同的處要全面檢討改善可是明明在這個部分1月11號你就有發生這個天降鋼板嘛對不對那後來讓它復工了復工了之後所以導致有人然後後來再次天降這個鋼筋砸壞兩台車一個小時之後再這個砸死人所以這個東西你剛剛這樣子歸類是不是反而是沒有好好的去檢查它如果譬如說它已經"},{"start":1122.235,"end":1130.807,"text":"掉下來你沒有砸到人這工地他掉下來一個危險物品沒砸到人然後你就沒有去要求他或者是說示警他那"},{"start":1131.798,"end":1158.366,"text":"這只是剛好那裡沒有人而已嘛對吧第一個我們其實在去年下半年提出的減災計劃裡面其實也有一個是會針對高質災跟高危違規的這個監管的計劃那我想在這些相關的案件裡面我們都會來跟高雄市勞檢處來瞭解一下包括也跟他們在瞭解有沒有大家可以互相協助然後能夠把這樣子的一個"},{"start":1159.546,"end":1178.894,"text":"這樣子的一個公檢的案其實你們兩方不管是高雄市政府或者是你所以這次到底是要誰負這個督導的責任監督的責任當然這是高雄市勞檢處他要來進行這些這個相關的檢查的業務但是這個高雄市勞檢處當然也跟中央的部分也會有一些互相可以互相協助的關係"},{"start":1179.554,"end":1207.141,"text":"所以你要互相協助他但是這樣看起來是高雄市勞檢處沒有好好的去去檢討我沒有這樣子我沒有這樣因為政策當然是中央我們訂定的政策所以不管是減災計畫或者是剛才說強化停復工的計畫這都是中央提出來的可是我們當然也有義務來協助地方政府的檢查機構來照著這個政策的方向盡量的來落實所以我們也有這個部分的"},{"start":1207.321,"end":1221.909,"text":"所以你有沒有去檢討說他現在這個流程裡面到底他的檢查哪裡出了問題所以我說在這幾個案例裡面當然也有剛剛林組長說的裡面有部分的計畫他在檢查官的認定裡面他並不是指災也有這樣的部分可是我想"},{"start":1222.869,"end":1236.96,"text":"呃有職災的尤其是重大職災的案例的發生就是大家不樂見的我們都願意來跟相關的地方政府的檢查機構來多做一點關心跟了解來協助請問一下那你們有沒有依照你們頒布的這個職場檢災計畫你剛剛一直提到對這個案件同類樣態進行抽查啦或是複合你們有做這件事嗎"},{"start":1243.485,"end":1260.335,"text":"跟委員報告我們確實在去年下半年我們也有頒布一個高違規高職災的監管計畫那我們會就這個個案我們會要求高公司勞檢處是不是有符合我們的規範應該要列入這個所謂的列管的一個工地"},{"start":1261.175,"end":1277.523,"text":"對 所以簡單來講我聽到現在你好像沒有去監督或是督導他們有沒有依照你們訂新的這個停工跟復工的要點去確實 落實說他有沒有依照這個新規則去執行不是 我們的定期性或年度的考評"},{"start":1278.724,"end":1302.066,"text":"都有 都有 但是這個在實情上不可能每一個個案這個 但是我們會假設這樣的案件我們會每個月去從我們的系統上去看對嘛 它是屬於高違規所以你們有系統可以去看嘛 對不對我們所有的檢查都要進到我們中央的系統 對所以你們有個通報平台有 你們有個通報平台 對不對好 那我想要請教一下你說你每個月去看 那這件事情"},{"start":1304.187,"end":1323.823,"text":"不是每個月去看那個現場不是 我知道 就是這個通報平台嘛你們就是要透過通報平台才知道有沒有發生這件事 對嗎你們現在是要這樣嗎是 他如果有剛剛委員提到的被檢查 被罰還 被停工在我們的紀錄都會看到那如果是屬於我們列管的那我們就要提高檢查頻率 還有提高罰還金額那這個案件有被通報嗎"},{"start":1324.964,"end":1347.469,"text":"這個案件一定通報一定有通報是不是一定有通報一定有通報嗎所以那這個部分勞檢單位可能他有介入嗎勞檢單位依照我們剛剛委員提到勞檢法跟相關的法規程序規範都會去做勞檢對都要去做勞檢所以你這個案子應該會有所以在通報平台上應該也要會有當然確定"},{"start":1351.417,"end":1379.353,"text":"我想要 所以我就想要問喔 但是我有去查齁我去查 這個是零筆 零筆資料欸我查不到這一件事情欸我上網去查 我根本查不到這件事啊甚至我也去看他的地圖 根本沒有這個案件啊那個 第一個公開網的部分 當然會跟我們他還通報的這個資訊系統不一定一樣 但我們可以來看一下就是說所以你說 那你如果不一樣的話 那你又何必公開又需要這個網站呢"},{"start":1383.679,"end":1407.791,"text":"我跟你講我去你們重大職災公開網這個案件是一筆資料都沒有啊一筆資料都沒有那個他的關鍵字不一定是用凹子底啦好那再往下我沒有關鍵字沒有凹子底那我去看的地圖也沒有這個案件再往下再往下有個圖片好我有去看你們的公開的地圖地圖上也沒有這個案件"},{"start":1412.637,"end":1440.395,"text":"跟委員報告那整個只要經過我們檢查報告書經過我們中央核定以後他資料就要上傳那這個個案是不是我們會後把提供完整資料給委員所以你們就是有督導的疏失嘛所以因為你這個資料我根本完全查不到這件事情如果剛剛委員這個案子他剛發生剛發生 實在報告書要一到兩個月我們整個責任都釐清以後我們才允許他上去對 是這個部分那你這一到兩個月這個工地你們要怎麼處理"},{"start":1441.576,"end":1460.079,"text":"委員你現在把好幾件事情全部混在一起了第一個事情是資訊流的通報跟揭露這件事情他有他在這個職災上面責任認定的程序必須把這些相關責任認定的程序給走完他才能夠確認這筆資料相關的資料是如何"},{"start":1460.339,"end":1481.413,"text":"他才會放到相關的資訊公開的部分這是一個部分但是那個工地現場該怎麼處理這也會有一套系統所以這是不同的事情你把他好幾件事情沒有所以我剛剛是幫你開開來講所以我的問題也是問另外一件事就是說那這段時間因為我們最終我們要講的事情叫做你有沒有落實督導有沒有有沒有發生說你看他明明就掉了東西下來"},{"start":1482.173,"end":1496.67,"text":"然後呢因為沒有及時的去用嚴格的監督的管理規則讓他復工結果隔了兩個月之後又掉下來我就要表達的事情是你第一次發生的時候是剛好下面沒有人那你第二次發生的時候就砸到人了嗎"},{"start":1497.09,"end":1512.394,"text":"所以我現在要說的事情是說針對這個案例我想我們會請治安署來跟高雄市勞檢處針對這個案子目前處理到什麼樣子的程序來做一個更深入的瞭解因為這的確是地方政府的勞檢檢察機構在處理我們會來瞭解那我們會來跟他確認"},{"start":1516.175,"end":1541.678,"text":"他有沒有按照去年我們頒布的相關的這個政策跟機制來去處理我們會來跟他確認這件事情但他的確在這個案例上面也會有他要走的流程他的走的流程到目前按照該個三月的話他到現在不一定這個流程你剛剛有說中央地方都有各自的責任然後他表達說你們的督導責任包含不管這個資訊的問題或者是他有沒有依照你們新規則去逐一的去執行落實"},{"start":1542.819,"end":1563.416,"text":"這件事情是你們的督導責任然後再來就是你們地方政府上面他有沒有落實做這件事情所以我要表達的是你這個公安和勞安其實你在這個個案你就可以發現說一個很奇妙的地方他第一次砸下來之後只是剛好沒有人那後面呢你很快的復工之後好大概兩個月後你如果沒有落實檢查這些要點"},{"start":1565.117,"end":1589.73,"text":"他再砸下來的時候剛好下面有人 哇那就一個工人就這樣子過世了這個狀況的發生都是我們不樂見的情況我們都不樂見所以我們願意跟地方政府我們願意跟地方政府來加強這部分的督導我想這部分我們願意跟地方政府來做所以我想要跟你說的事情是第一個你們好像不願意承認你們在資訊流上面請你們回去檢討一下然後給本席辦公室檢討的報告為什麼我去查 查不到"},{"start":1590.27,"end":1606.487,"text":"然後有四起我會說過去這個工地就有四起可是我在網站上是一筆都查不到但是你剛剛在質詢前面又跟我說你們都有落實登記所以這件事情本席希望會後給本席辦公室一個報告我還是要再強調這個案件他一定會有通報但通報以後他"},{"start":1607.128,"end":1635.642,"text":"他去處理的程序會要走到一定處理的程序以後他才會放上一個公開揭露的系統因為如果他沒有走完一個一定處理的程序的時候他放上公開揭露的系統他的資訊不一定是完整跟正確的所以公開揭露的部分跟內部的通報這是兩件事情那我想要請問一下前面有一個53歲工人他在之前就有意外墜樓也很久了也很久以前那為什麼他還是沒有上你們這個公開系統呢"},{"start":1640.143,"end":1653.611,"text":"那個公開網是職業災害因為工作而引起的如果這個個案就目前我們了解他不是跟工作有相關性所以他不是職業災害就是不能不是職業就不是在我的平台去公布"},{"start":1653.971,"end":1672.517,"text":"所以你的意思就是這就是我們剛剛講的就這兩件事情你可能要去看一下這件事情他要怎麼在資訊上面串起來因為不管是公安或是這個職災我覺得這個東西你們要去想一下這個流程上第一階段發生了這個事你們要嚴格的去要求不要再發生坍塌"},{"start":1673.177,"end":1702.025,"text":"掉下來 這個是不是要特別示警至少這個案例我們會重點來關注那過去 剛才講的你剛才應該是講你現在投影片上面的第二起事件是後來檢察官認定他不是職業災害他是他新陰性的原因對好 你看著這個 好 OK但是我還是要講在天降鐵板這兩個關係所以我說我們願意重點來關注請你們這個會後之後再提供給本席辦公室為什麼我的質疑的點好 謝謝"},{"start":1703.291,"end":1704.687,"text":"好,謝謝廖瑋雄委員的諮詢"}]}},{"id":"168161","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168161","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c92313a866a2febf5e62ad2ff7c69481570bdfb2511f2cb5cc243b8408b1a723d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"12:15:00 - 12:20:54","影片長度":"00:05:54","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:15:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:20:54+08:00","duration":354,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.574093750000001,"end":8.063468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.349718750000001,"end":18.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.25221875,"end":15.977843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.06159375,"end":20.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.32721875,"end":24.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.01409375,"end":30.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.48596875,"end":33.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.32096875,"end":35.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.21096875,"end":39.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.88971875,"end":43.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.31096875,"end":45.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.930968750000005,"end":49.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.43659375,"end":53.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.03096875,"end":56.460968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.148468750000006,"end":60.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.60784375,"end":66.55221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.00784375,"end":71.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.67784375000001,"end":74.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.82096875,"end":75.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.64346875000001,"end":78.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.29284375,"end":80.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.54159375,"end":82.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.90409375,"end":85.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.63784375,"end":95.42534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.65471875,"end":86.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.65784375000001,"end":93.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.42534375000001,"end":95.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.58971875,"end":97.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.88909375,"end":100.90971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.19659375,"end":106.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.03534375000001,"end":108.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.53721875000001,"end":110.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.86596875000001,"end":113.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.61659375,"end":116.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.46846875000001,"end":120.73784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.50159375000001,"end":123.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.72471875000001,"end":127.52159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.82534375,"end":147.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.48471875,"end":192.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.72659375,"end":197.14784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.65409375000002,"end":197.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.53159375,"end":199.62846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.67471875,"end":202.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.15534375000001,"end":205.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.77096875,"end":206.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.40346875,"end":214.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.00159375,"end":218.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.25409375,"end":225.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.35846875000001,"end":227.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.96159375000002,"end":229.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.27346875,"end":238.82909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.93034375000002,"end":244.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.38096875000002,"end":247.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.24534375000002,"end":249.79784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.00034375,"end":252.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.35846875000001,"end":256.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.02034375,"end":258.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.70346875,"end":261.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.71159375,"end":264.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.10346875,"end":265.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.54221875,"end":266.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.44909375000003,"end":275.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.22846875,"end":276.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.96659375,"end":284.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.37034375,"end":292.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.11596875000004,"end":295.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.38971875000004,"end":299.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.18284375,"end":299.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.20346875,"end":302.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.01721875000004,"end":305.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.05909375000005,"end":308.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.73346875000004,"end":314.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.78346875,"end":316.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.51721875000004,"end":318.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.06971875,"end":322.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.15346875,"end":326.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.03909375,"end":326.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.98409375,"end":328.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.97534375000004,"end":330.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.09346875,"end":331.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.38409375000003,"end":343.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.99409375000005,"end":344.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.07846875,"end":348.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.80346875000004,"end":350.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.43596875000003,"end":352.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.73534375,"end":353.59596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":13.106,"end":34.799,"text":"主席有請部長台鐵部長好所有的官員好這個台鐵大霧點在3月27號這張照片是我在台鐵"},{"start":36.523,"end":51.774,"text":"等候的火車的時候照的照片所以你看如果我們從這張照片這個最晚要延遲到240分鐘延遲就從這張照片240分鐘有195分鐘130分鐘然後這張也是我在現場拍的"},{"start":62.147,"end":81.801,"text":"這個PUMA延遲130分鐘,然後滯響號160分鐘,這個真的是非常非常的久然後你們的網路上其實沒有看到說會延誤,可以不用那麼早去"},{"start":83.748,"end":110.03,"text":"所以這個都是要去檢討的所以委員說的如果說網路上沒有的話這個我們確實應該檢討第一時間所有的訊息應該讓所有的旅客能夠通透透過各種管道都必須通透這個當然你們也提到了這個道歉整個因為電力線的故障霧點總共加起來你們是寫超過兩萬分鐘這個部分所以一定要去"},{"start":111.441,"end":114.594,"text":"檢討然後你們提了相關的改善措施因為時間的關係"},{"start":116.918,"end":143.194,"text":"這個部分再請台鐵這邊能夠提供素面的是 我很簡單的跟委員報告準備了避免這個大霧點我們就是在行控中心這個硬幣中心我們會成立一個專責的單位然後把我們所謂的班次整個重新的編排因為我們在單線雙向的時候我們的容量是受限制所以我們可能會在某一個時間點裡面"},{"start":144.915,"end":160.241,"text":"就是把他這個以前的單次取消然後看客人能夠搭這個我們譬如說多號座我們的車廂的話我們就讓他可以自由坐上去但是往後的部分的話就會縮短他的時間所以我們這樣的一個方向"},{"start":166.303,"end":170.168,"text":"以後我們會來錄音另外就是說在這個時間點裡面我們有一組人專門來說會預估延後多少時間我們會把這時間送到各個車站送到各個列車長有列車長來告訴我們的旅客"},{"start":182.242,"end":206.645,"text":"有車站動作告示來讓旅客知道同時我們在內部的網站裡面也應該要推播這樣的一個資訊讓所有搭乘台鐵的旅客他有知道這樣的delay的情況好 這個最主要早上就發生了嘛 對不對早上上班族就影響了結果我是"},{"start":208.444,"end":229.111,"text":"晚上我是六點左右到了台北車站才知道原來是我知道早上就有誤我沒有想到會那麼久啦我沒想到會那麼久去修這些那些這個都是要去加強檢討改進的部分好這個接下來就"},{"start":230.319,"end":255.793,"text":"台鐵漁花東這個也就是零三零四零三一百一十三年零四零三大地震造成的這個部分行政院在今年的三月十六號合定終於合定了七十七點九九億元接下來就是要請這個交通部鐵道局台鐵這個部分要優先針對這個河仁道"},{"start":260.044,"end":283.824,"text":"從德這一段因為這階段會涉及到不只是鐵路也會涉及到這個公路台九這個蘇花公路的那個部分所以這個部分優先去處理可以嗎報告委員這個部分我會優先處理不過現在最大的問題會是在立法院的總預算還沒審議通過所以我們沒有錢可以做"},{"start":286.444,"end":300.288,"text":"這個新新計畫 這個算新增新新計畫你們只要提送過來部長不要用這樣的用詞啦按照預算法54條新新計畫或者是新增 何況這是新新計畫嘛"},{"start":310.762,"end":321.453,"text":"第一個你們只要報來立法院絕對會同意,何況立法院已經主動718億718億的主動裡面沒有包含這一項對你們還要送來啊為什麼主動沒有包含這一項"},{"start":332.438,"end":349.051,"text":"因為這個3月16號今年3月16號才核定當然沒有嘛你當然沒有列入115年度的預算嘛部長我這個30年的公務員我們不要用這個樣的那個我們去解決問題解決問題趕快送來啊好不好好"}]}},{"id":"168160","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168160","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c40c6cc0cb3cdcaa1e62ad2ff7c69481570bdfb2511f2cb5cc243b8408b1a723d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪毓祥","委員發言時間":"12:08:30 - 12:14:45","影片長度":"00:06:15","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:08:30+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:14:45+08:00","duration":375,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.624718750000001,"end":9.109718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.08846875,"end":15.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.754718750000002,"end":14.037218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.20159375,"end":15.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.78721875,"end":21.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.37784375,"end":22.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.082218750000003,"end":24.094718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.31409375,"end":34.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.64159375,"end":44.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.85096875,"end":51.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.140968750000006,"end":52.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.27159375,"end":55.853468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.66346875,"end":63.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.70034375,"end":67.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.13846875,"end":69.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.02846875,"end":74.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.97284375000001,"end":85.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.12721875000001,"end":93.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.77159375000001,"end":97.12971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.63596875,"end":100.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.74096875000001,"end":102.37784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.76596875000001,"end":105.12846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.56721875000001,"end":107.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.53721875000001,"end":112.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.17784375000001,"end":125.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.22221875000001,"end":127.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.36971875,"end":129.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.68596875,"end":130.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.85034375,"end":130.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.71096875,"end":142.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.45159375,"end":149.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.70784375000002,"end":157.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.00221875,"end":158.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.06096875,"end":159.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.83721875,"end":170.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.59534375,"end":173.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.33721875,"end":173.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.43846875,"end":176.84721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.10909375,"end":178.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.24784375000002,"end":183.24284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.80409375000002,"end":185.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.70659375000002,"end":188.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.99721875,"end":189.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.87471875,"end":192.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.01784375000003,"end":194.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.70096875000002,"end":201.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.06784375,"end":197.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.84346875,"end":205.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.37034375000002,"end":208.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.06159375000001,"end":211.87971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.48721875,"end":238.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.49159375000002,"end":241.39409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.34346875000003,"end":241.37721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.39409375000002,"end":241.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.54596875000001,"end":260.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.42909375,"end":263.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.61846875000003,"end":273.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.62534375,"end":274.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.84034375000005,"end":291.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.41159375,"end":305.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.70471875000004,"end":316.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.60159375,"end":325.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.97159375,"end":327.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.18221875,"end":330.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.47721875,"end":338.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.75846875,"end":351.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.06034375,"end":357.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.23659375,"end":373.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.64784375000005,"end":377.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.28471875,"end":374.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.31846875,"end":374.33534375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.642,"end":10.789,"text":"我們有請這個交通部陳部長 觀光署陳署長陳署長"},{"start":20.816,"end":43.948,"text":"好兩位好我覺得因為問題很多所以我大概只挑一個因為我在交通部在以前林佳龍部長的時候我也擔任過你們運營所的這些MARS的一個審查的委員是智慧觀光也協助規劃過所以我覺得這個問題還是要跟你們提一下這樣子"},{"start":45.549,"end":67.48,"text":"我們賴總統函出這個觀光的國家對2030年的目標是產值一兆那國發計畫列入目標是九千億這個早上我已經也罵過國發會常常每次收各部會的報告那個資料都不sync都不一致所以這個請你們再跟他溝通調成是一致"},{"start":68.2,"end":85.337,"text":"那我的問題就是說因為從以前我們在做觀光的時候其實我怕的就是我們的基礎啊到底是不是這個底盤是不是有打好那我們先來看一個東西就是說我翻了你們的一個報告那如果是像你們這樣喊的Joyce"},{"start":87.479,"end":112.332,"text":"2030就是邁向2030這樣的方案那基本上我現在在那個報告裡頭也許你們有啦或會後提供也可以就是我看不到分年的目標然後你一年四季季度的追蹤那這個東西如果我達不到目標到底是哪一個部會你要去負責那這個東西我相信你們有但是可能我報告看不到"},{"start":113.317,"end":142.557,"text":"因為以前我們在弄計畫的時候你們交通部或是這些的外面我們這些審查人在問的就是你每一次都講當年度但是你還是要告訴我每一年每一年的MILESTONE是多少這個有應該有吧這個有這個有那你再會後提供好沒問題另外呢我想要再問一個就是右邊這裡缺公開儀表板這裡因為在我們之前做的時候像你們報告有寫觀光綜合的管理平台我就問部長"},{"start":143.497,"end":149.441,"text":"你手上的手機APP有沒有這個東西或者是你們講的PWS可不可以看得到這樣子的數據"},{"start":151.525,"end":176.799,"text":"向委員報告您所說的這個公開儀表板我也希望能夠建置我也覺得這個相當的重要你們已經有在建置很久了對但是我認為現在對民眾來講或者是說對於想要知道資料跟資訊的用者來講使用者來講其實是不便利的暫停儀表板這個概念因為你內部一定要有所以我到達到這個目標為什麼我五年前就講過我們內部已經有了"},{"start":178.481,"end":187.22,"text":"對但是我要知道手掌手上有沒有因為那時候也是觀光區上面也是這些問題他們固定時間都會提供給我做參考不要啦我們現在都AI行動內閣了"},{"start":189.062,"end":217.003,"text":"可以嗎可以這五年前我就提出來了所以你的原因是希望我們一定要在手機上看手機平板都可以啊你隨時都可以看到比如說你現在去訪問記者訪問你的時候現在觀光區是多少其實大部分大部分提供給我都是用檔案沒有錯都是用檔案的方式你那麼年輕可以啦行動內閣好不好來再來的話我為什麼比較沒有信心的原因就是說因為這個目標一路一路下修這個是指我們的國際的旅客人數來談那"},{"start":218.884,"end":237.796,"text":"為什麼這個東西我這樣講因為你們現在花在很多的品牌的行銷海外推廣的活動花了多少預算可能我這邊報告也沒有看到但是我比較關心的就是說你這個預算算下去的時候到底那個轉換率以及我增加旅客的成本是多少"},{"start":238.696,"end":261.834,"text":"我覺得這個要去做ROI的一個分析啊不然的話我只看到人次人次然後其實我就一直達不到然後你人來了停留多少多少產值那我是不是可以達到這一個2030年造園的目標那我這樣才有辦法對的回來所以我是覺得在整個計畫執行的結構上可能要再去清楚一點然後另外是一個比較結構性的問題就是說"},{"start":263.995,"end":282.923,"text":"我們民眾都喜歡出國就不喜歡待在國旅我覺得這個問題很多我會後也可以提供給你們做一些參考因為我們都是希望他能夠就是現在人民就是這樣子用腳投票給你看他就是想要出去了然後他也不想要待在國旅我覺得這也不是房價的問題"},{"start":283.823,"end":311.594,"text":"他可能包含你烘台產品高度重複體驗感低甚至接駁像我們很多剛剛在委員講的還好行我也是常常K他們對不對你有些東西的使用率人次高或不高等等但有些是你要貼錢補貼去做但是我覺得那個ROI跟那個癥結點因為這都是十幾年將近應該有十年了所以我一直覺得說這個東西如果你還是用舊的做法去做的話這個會比較不好"},{"start":312.984,"end":338.714,"text":"那最後啦我因為時間的關係我再跟各位說明一下就是我大概希望是一個月內來告訴我就說整個市場的飲客的KPI包含你的旅客數停留的天數消費重遊率飲客的成本然後你們現在呢在報告裡面也做了一些台灣100亮點的這些的工程等等但是我覺得你不要只看完工率"},{"start":339.813,"end":356.802,"text":"就不要只看那個什麼使用人士其實我要知道說你這樣的營收到底有沒有達到這樣的倍增的目標那另外一個也是跟許智傑委員一樣有一些的觀光好行的這些檢討要去改善一下尤其是我們外籍旅客之前我一直在講本國旅客說實在的"},{"start":358.263,"end":376.865,"text":"他搞不好也不會想要去抓可能開車或幹嘛但是外籍旅客這個接駁跟你的台灣PASS以前我們是要做MAS的系統整個整合起來那我是希望就一個角度啦也是跟你們這樣子溝通一下好不好好謝謝委員您所關心的這些都很重要我們陸續來做那也會提供資料給您謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168159","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168159","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c04177fcbefedcf3abd67b93b5004dc0270bdfb2511f2cb5c0071cf153f999cd55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"12:58:12 - 13:11:12","影片長度":"00:13:00","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:58:12+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:11:12+08:00","duration":780,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":4.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.5153437499999995,"end":9.126593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.63159375,"end":19.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.399093750000002,"end":21.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.18284375,"end":27.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.97596875,"end":28.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.106593750000002,"end":67.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.30721875,"end":85.94159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.24534375,"end":93.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.85596875,"end":100.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.23034375,"end":114.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.83159375000001,"end":116.72159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.85659375,"end":145.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.46784375000001,"end":152.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.01971875,"end":155.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.60159375,"end":159.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.58409375000002,"end":174.31596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.67034375,"end":185.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.89221875,"end":191.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.41034375,"end":210.69846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.64346875,"end":243.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.21221875,"end":245.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.01784375000003,"end":249.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.11846875,"end":267.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.63471875,"end":268.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.71471875000003,"end":269.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.43596875000003,"end":271.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.27534375,"end":273.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.18221875,"end":280.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.81409375000004,"end":292.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.99784375,"end":300.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.23721875,"end":302.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.05534375,"end":330.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.35909375,"end":346.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.79534375000003,"end":354.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.28346875,"end":356.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.63346875,"end":391.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.00346875,"end":392.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.20596875,"end":400.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.67721875,"end":418.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.62784375,"end":421.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.19284375,"end":431.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.11971875,"end":435.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.45221875000004,"end":440.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.27846875,"end":443.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.26534375000006,"end":448.48409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.14221875000004,"end":525.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.6997187500001,"end":527.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.14659375,"end":533.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.28096875,"end":534.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.0065937500001,"end":536.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.8584687499999,"end":536.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.9765937500001,"end":537.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":537.07784375,"end":537.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.17909375,"end":538.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":537.3815937500001,"end":543.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.40596875,"end":597.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.19909375,"end":604.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.23159375,"end":622.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.0053437500001,"end":645.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":645.33096875,"end":672.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":672.58409375,"end":677.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":677.98409375,"end":741.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":741.8897187500002,"end":743.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":743.89784375,"end":745.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":745.70346875,"end":746.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":753.9722187500001,"end":766.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":771.8428437500002,"end":780.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":780.9553437500001,"end":780.9722187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.389,"end":7.835,"text":"劉淑斌委員質詢劉淑 欸 喔 換了好 有請楊瓊英委員詢答 請好 謝謝主席 要請發言 要請部長好 請鄭部長委員好"},{"start":28.018,"end":55.916,"text":"部長好我們共同來討論教師荒的問題因為我們看到教師荒它不是未來的它是現在正在發生的這個危機所以請教教育部部長目前已經出現了結構性教師人力的一個危機那這個出現的現象本期來綜合幾項第一個教師增市的時候報名人數呢它是下降的"},{"start":56.576,"end":85.551,"text":"但是我們在錄取率上升但仍然是補不滿甚至出現了有分科別的部分部分科別的部分是開缺但是沒有人來報考那如果說連想當老師的人都在減少的時候那我們教育部在整個培育的制度是不是有出現了失靈的這個狀況那第二個我要提出更嚴重的問題是人留不住"},{"start":86.391,"end":113.359,"text":"人留不住那第一件的教師呢反應最直接他說工作負擔過重還有加上行政壓力爆炸尤其是導師加行政的雙重負擔所以各類的這個評鑑填報工作他是不斷的在增加所以本校要請教教育部你是不是有一個整體的人力重建的這個計畫"},{"start":114.892,"end":143.589,"text":"因為如果制度不改那未來還要有人願意當老師嗎如果現在的現象已經產生那我們的教育我們的制度到底要怎麼改因為教師荒它不只是教育的問題它更是國安的一個議題所以本席認為我們要怎麼樣支持老師不讓他有這些的困境也就是國家的競爭力才能夠不流失"},{"start":144.449,"end":145.172,"text":"我要請教部長"},{"start":148.264,"end":173.166,"text":"謝謝委員關心我們老師的培育跟老師的穩定性首先我要跟委員報告我們教師人才人力上的流失當然有因素是複雜的譬如說每30年一個世代117年從民國57年到現在剛好第二個世代交替這是一個原因第二個我們在這個產業上"},{"start":175.167,"end":190.698,"text":"產業上我們當然是科技產業真的是蓬勃發展他也吸引了許多steam的老師第三個我們在私私的培育從過去我們這一個等於說工會的一個從師大工會的制度我們學多少老師就"},{"start":191.539,"end":210.452,"text":"招考的招多少的學生來儲備但是我們現在完全是儲備制多元施施多元從民國83年開放以後我們的老師就是我們以現在來講我們的施施的培育的供給量事實上是遠大於需求量這個我也必須要先說明那最近"},{"start":211.958,"end":234.886,"text":"特别在去年我们看到许多代理老师会大量的缺失因为来自于我们要希望能够确保国民教育的品质国教虽然少子化但是我们希望各校不要有太多比例的代理代课老师尽管他们里边也有很多热情有使命感的所以我们国教从111年到114年里边"},{"start":235.626,"end":259.41,"text":"特別透過這個只要各校保留8%因為我們看到地方縣市教育這個中小學當然有的這個代理老師占到20幾% 30幾%我們希望穩定這個老師的一個教育品質老師能夠最多控留因應少子化控留8%所以呢從11年開始"},{"start":259.81,"end":269.519,"text":"由國教署來補助地方教育局處經會如果你學校只控留在8%改善了等於說你要開始"},{"start":271.433,"end":289.353,"text":"這個釋放出更多的正規的合格的教師的缺那麼從111年開始每年大概都補了5000個等於111 12 13 14這樣裡面這四年裡面大概原來代理代課老師有兩萬個大概幾乎都到"},{"start":290.234,"end":316.094,"text":"變成正式缺的老師所以呢我們變成有一些原來代理代課的老師他確實是會有一些不足再加上譬如說以台北市非常嚴重大家都看到的一些媒體的報導因為台北市在過去代理代課老師他是給一年的一個薪資當法院判定各地方縣市我們22地方縣市有的給9個月有的給10個月"},{"start":318.556,"end":345.802,"text":"並沒有像台北市一年當我們這一個制度一改變全部代理代課都要給一年的薪資的時候台北市的物價生活值各方面當然他就比不上這個因為條件都一樣了所以呢有一定比例的年輕人他當然要從事教職他有熱情他就回到他自己的這個自己的故鄉裡邊我想他是有多樣的一個原因在"},{"start":346.961,"end":369.142,"text":"在滚动那当然我们也看到偏乡的离岛的比如说原住民地区我们开始从去年就请屏东大学里边开原住民专班工会专班我们也看到steam的一些课也请台湾师大去开一些这个工会的专班除了这个以外我们还有一些学士或专班"},{"start":369.662,"end":391.194,"text":"甚至對這個偏鄉離島的這些代理代課老師他沒有教育學問我們甚至開線上的一個課程我們事實上是從整體的整體的一個系統裡面去看私私的培育包括世代的一個交替我們希望在這個部分培養出來的老師一方面解決我們許多熱情老師能夠留在"},{"start":392.398,"end":418.596,"text":"这一个中小学继续为台湾培养人才另外一个我们开始更大量的培养各领域的所谓的实施人才比如说包含Steam的这样的人才那当然我也利用这个机会要拜托我们地方政府怎么样当教育部培养足够的这样的一个各领域的人才实施人力的时候我们地方怎么样去"},{"start":419.676,"end":448.215,"text":"透過一個攬財的一個機制跟留財的一個機制讓許多我們年輕人能夠繼續為台灣培養人才來一起努力一起為台灣做出本席之所以願意要給部長你大概三分鐘的時間去說明但是我們看到你目前所有的政策跟制度跟執行還是一個問題叫是謊所以我本席認為說我們當政府制定了制度之後"},{"start":449.236,"end":470.851,"text":"制定的制度在執行的同時你必須要去看到目前的現況到底是如何如果依照剛剛部長你所說的那沒有辦法去解決我們現在所稱的教師荒所以呢還好你知道問題在哪裡那這個問題因為你身為我們教育的最大的這個機構"},{"start":473.012,"end":497.93,"text":"所以更应当要从中怎么样去研明方案能够落实到目前家长学校等没有教师荒的这个隐忧这才是我们要的所以我愿意给你这么多的时间来说明也就是到目前为止我们的制度你要怎么去调整我还是一句话本席说我们希望协助学校"},{"start":499.111,"end":526.933,"text":"協助我們的家長協助我們的教師他不是教師荒三個字一直印記在我們的社會在我們的教育當中所以我具體的建議請你把你剛剛目前所說的你預計的KPI到底是如何你順便資料給本席我希望把這個教師荒這三個字能夠去除掉真正幫助學校OK嗎你多久時間可以告訴本席多久時間"},{"start":529.175,"end":556.388,"text":"跟委員報告 會後我們事實上這個data我們事實上都就是因為你這個data要怎麼去調整嘛好不好 好 你既然已經有了你一個禮拜時間給本席接下來本席在那個主席本席要討論的是說在我們的整個升學制度到底公不公平因為我們一直認為學習歷程我們所強調的是要多元性的一個表現"},{"start":557.628,"end":578.464,"text":"而且減輕壓力但是現在似乎有變成了什麼呢有資源的學生他補習競賽包裝成果資源不足的學生他只能夠填寫基本的資料所以本校要請教部長在城鄉學生在鼎大錄取的一個比例差距有沒有持續在擴大"},{"start":579.685,"end":604.261,"text":"因為我們制定了這個制度教育最重要的是一個立足點的一個公平資源差異的一個影響評估本席認為必須在一段時間做滾動式的一個調整那我們的目的就是要落實當時設計的公平跟欠壓的目標這是非常重要 請說說明"},{"start":606.588,"end":621.917,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實事實上我們當這一個制度在改變的時候我們的城鄉的這些比較鄉區的這些學校的學生錄取鼎大的一個比例事實上是在增加的我想詳細的情形請廖市長來說說"},{"start":623.558,"end":644.627,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們的升學管道現在分很多一個是繁星那繁星其實就是顧及到每校都等值的這樣的一個概念所以不管是城鄉或者是在城市地區的學生的入取率其實是差不多的那再來就是針對學習歷程檔案城鄉之間有沒有差距這我們有進行相關的研究調查是不是會後我們提供給委員做"},{"start":645.387,"end":671.919,"text":"所以部長就針對城鄉差距在這個部分呢跟社會階級落差的這個部分非常重視喔你們必須要滾動式的去檢討最後一個功課喔我要請教因為3月23號教育部跟司法院跟這個法務部有開了公聽會喔也就針對校園暴力的這個問題精神狀況不穩學生的事件那家長請問的一句話"},{"start":672.819,"end":700.199,"text":"孩子在学校是真的安全吗这句话在我们的教育这个层面来说是不应当有这样子的话语因为我们一定要让我们的孩子安全所以目前为止我们教育部似乎都停滞在个案的一个处理所以本期要请教部长3月23号的公听会也就是针对于是不是有专府机构让暴力强制"},{"start":700.819,"end":716.557,"text":"去在專輔機構裡頭來協助讓原本的校園能夠安全也讓教師能夠有權責的來處理這是我們在維護我們孩子的安全那目前為止早上我也特別在法治委員會也請問了這個"},{"start":721.261,"end":746.051,"text":"這個法務部他是跟你的立場是贊同來設置專輔機構但是司法還是認為有疑慮所以我特別要請部長站在你的立場你是贊成的教育部是贊成的是不是要更積極的三方再去會合還給家長讓孩子在校園安全的一個放心請教部長"},{"start":772.954,"end":776.456,"text":"謝謝這個願意 三方趕快再會合還給校園的一個安全 謝謝謝謝楊瓊英委員 請部長回座"}]}},{"id":"168158","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168158","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c3663fa3c0917f5747570c8d4d2e9dc78994a069f48f295f38466b1d63248431c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"12:23:03 - 12:56:23","影片長度":"00:33:20","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:23:03+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:56:23+08:00","duration":2000,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.067218750000002,"end":14.087843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.374718750000003,"end":15.387218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.28471875,"end":23.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.976593750000003,"end":23.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.06096875,"end":44.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.289718750000006,"end":56.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.258468750000006,"end":60.156593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.66284375,"end":61.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.89471875,"end":64.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.84346875,"end":76.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.98659375,"end":68.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.42409375000001,"end":95.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.25221875000001,"end":102.61409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.91346875,"end":119.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.33284375000001,"end":126.22221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.21784375000001,"end":130.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.87534375,"end":134.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.16596875000002,"end":139.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.92471875,"end":146.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.87721875,"end":146.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.89409375,"end":147.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.21471875,"end":152.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.20971875,"end":158.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.70659375,"end":161.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.30096875,"end":163.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.37221875,"end":167.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.57409375,"end":170.95784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.51471875000001,"end":172.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.13909375,"end":172.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.17284375,"end":172.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.20221875000001,"end":180.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.03221875,"end":196.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.86534375000002,"end":199.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.22346875000002,"end":204.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.60659375,"end":208.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.12909375,"end":214.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.69346875000002,"end":219.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.43971875000003,"end":221.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.13159375,"end":221.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.95409375000003,"end":223.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.64159375000003,"end":224.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.12659375,"end":225.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.17721875,"end":227.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.53534375,"end":230.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.27346875,"end":234.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.49221875,"end":239.31846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.45409375000003,"end":236.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.67284375000003,"end":240.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.51659375000003,"end":247.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.42659375000002,"end":254.57346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.49721875,"end":260.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.10846875000004,"end":266.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.71096875,"end":267.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.22971875,"end":269.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.30971875,"end":271.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.51596875,"end":277.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.42659375,"end":281.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.35846875000004,"end":283.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.47596875,"end":288.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.18409375000005,"end":295.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.37284375,"end":304.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.75971875000005,"end":306.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.93221875,"end":310.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.00346875,"end":312.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.72034375000004,"end":324.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.31784375,"end":328.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.12284375,"end":335.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.65346875,"end":338.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.03284375000004,"end":356.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.98346875000004,"end":361.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.86471875,"end":363.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.73784375,"end":364.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.71221875000003,"end":366.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.05784375,"end":372.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.17096875000004,"end":374.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.09471875,"end":377.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.99721875,"end":384.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.55721875,"end":389.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.14721875000004,"end":391.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.05409375000005,"end":398.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.63096875,"end":402.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.03971875,"end":404.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.60909375,"end":415.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.94909375000003,"end":421.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.01971875000004,"end":426.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.91784375000003,"end":437.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.88659375000003,"end":439.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.24909375000004,"end":441.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.91971875,"end":443.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.31596875,"end":446.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.06659375000004,"end":448.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.17159375000006,"end":452.28096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.82096875,"end":454.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.71096875,"end":459.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.97159375,"end":477.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":479.31471875000005,"end":485.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.41909375000006,"end":493.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.90721875,"end":498.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":499.05846875000003,"end":511.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":511.95096875,"end":512.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.25034375,"end":517.8403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.07659375,"end":523.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.7253437500001,"end":531.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.82971875,"end":534.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.4240937500001,"end":541.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.12346875,"end":550.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.3584687499999,"end":552.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":552.63659375,"end":559.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.1797187500001,"end":562.5928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.08221875,"end":565.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.2209687500001,"end":567.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.7397187500001,"end":570.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.2709687500001,"end":572.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.7178437499999,"end":574.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.2490937499999,"end":576.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":577.57784375,"end":581.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.87659375,"end":584.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.17159375,"end":602.0803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.82284375,"end":604.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.35409375,"end":606.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":607.1597187500001,"end":610.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.28159375,"end":614.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.64784375,"end":619.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":620.00159375,"end":622.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.41471875,"end":623.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.6128437500001,"end":624.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.3003437500001,"end":627.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.2409687500001,"end":629.2490937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.70471875,"end":635.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.2309687500001,"end":637.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.0872187500001,"end":640.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.70284375,"end":643.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":643.49159375,"end":650.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.93346875,"end":651.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.57409375,"end":681.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":681.78096875,"end":684.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":685.6453437499999,"end":688.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.1172187500001,"end":690.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.4797187500001,"end":695.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":697.49159375,"end":701.6428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":701.54159375,"end":704.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.37659375,"end":712.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.0209687500001,"end":712.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.0715937500001,"end":714.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.61971875,"end":718.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.7209687500001,"end":715.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.14659375,"end":719.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":719.29409375,"end":720.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":721.25159375,"end":723.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.68159375,"end":725.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.16221875,"end":728.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":728.8959687500001,"end":735.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":735.2409687500001,"end":737.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":737.41784375,"end":740.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":742.6828437500001,"end":743.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.47596875,"end":746.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":746.3784687500001,"end":748.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.4665937500001,"end":754.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":754.05659375,"end":754.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":754.2084687500001,"end":754.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":754.9678437500002,"end":756.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.03096875,"end":756.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":756.5203437499999,"end":756.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.9253437500001,"end":759.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.40596875,"end":764.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":760.6884687500001,"end":761.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":763.4053437500002,"end":768.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.0122187500001,"end":768.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":768.8728437500001,"end":775.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.5047187499999,"end":775.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.80846875,"end":781.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":781.44471875,"end":782.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":783.6215937500001,"end":788.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":788.65034375,"end":788.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":789.2409687500001,"end":790.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":791.31659375,"end":793.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":793.71284375,"end":799.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":799.48409375,"end":799.6528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":799.6528437500001,"end":799.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":799.70346875,"end":809.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":804.12471875,"end":804.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":810.1828437500001,"end":819.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":819.81846875,"end":868.4015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":869.2790937500001,"end":901.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":903.1303437500001,"end":905.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":907.02846875,"end":909.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":910.4540937500001,"end":911.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":911.6184687500001,"end":921.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":921.96284375,"end":927.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":927.26159375,"end":929.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":930.95721875,"end":936.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":937.2009687500001,"end":941.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":942.06096875,"end":944.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":944.98034375,"end":946.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":948.1697187500001,"end":953.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":954.43034375,"end":958.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":958.9697187500001,"end":963.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":963.42471875,"end":969.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":969.17909375,"end":969.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":969.5165937500001,"end":969.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":970.2759687500002,"end":973.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":973.7522187500001,"end":978.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":975.7603437500002,"end":976.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":978.2409687500001,"end":980.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":980.8228437500002,"end":987.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":985.7165937500001,"end":989.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":988.04534375,"end":989.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":989.69909375,"end":997.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":998.45721875,"end":999.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1000.00971875,"end":1003.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1003.4015937500001,"end":1006.5572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1008.4978437500001,"end":1008.5147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1008.5147187500002,"end":1008.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1008.54846875,"end":1010.6240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1010.6240937500002,"end":1013.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1012.78409375,"end":1015.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1017.2053437500001,"end":1018.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1020.0572187500002,"end":1021.2890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1022.0147187500002,"end":1023.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1025.03534375,"end":1029.4903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1029.7265937500001,"end":1034.1140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1029.81096875,"end":1030.3509687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1034.33346875,"end":1048.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1048.52534375,"end":1057.0472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1057.4859687500002,"end":1058.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1059.08909375,"end":1089.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1090.03784375,"end":1090.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1091.5228437500002,"end":1099.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1099.43721875,"end":1108.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1108.87034375,"end":1111.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1112.7347187500002,"end":1113.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1114.8272187500002,"end":1121.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1123.18034375,"end":1126.3865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1128.9009687500002,"end":1133.8453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1134.87471875,"end":1158.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1158.61784375,"end":1177.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1178.34471875,"end":1183.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1184.63909375,"end":1185.1622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1185.78659375,"end":1190.6634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1191.7434687500001,"end":1193.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1193.54909375,"end":1195.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1196.2322187500001,"end":1199.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1199.8097187500002,"end":1202.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1203.64034375,"end":1203.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1204.5515937500002,"end":1205.8509687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1208.0784687500002,"end":1210.2047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1210.7278437500001,"end":1213.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1214.3728437500001,"end":1215.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1217.1065937500002,"end":1218.6084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1219.09784375,"end":1228.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1229.3409687500002,"end":1237.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1237.94721875,"end":1257.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1258.1465937500002,"end":1269.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1270.1278437500002,"end":1293.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1295.22096875,"end":1295.5753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1295.9634687500002,"end":1305.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1305.8522187500002,"end":1326.3890937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1326.97971875,"end":1329.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1329.3422187500003,"end":1330.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1331.1647187500002,"end":1346.3184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1347.4153437500001,"end":1371.3778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1371.54659375,"end":1371.9347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1373.23409375,"end":1390.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1390.96971875,"end":1393.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1394.4459687500002,"end":1396.6565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1397.3484687500002,"end":1413.3965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1414.0884687500002,"end":1418.6109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1419.77534375,"end":1421.2603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1421.88471875,"end":1425.7828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1426.40721875,"end":1434.0684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1435.40159375,"end":1436.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1437.94971875,"end":1441.5609687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1442.97846875,"end":1448.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1448.5134687500001,"end":1454.8753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1455.2972187500002,"end":1458.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1458.9759687500002,"end":1461.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1462.3172187500002,"end":1463.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1464.4265937500002,"end":1468.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1469.9109687500002,"end":1471.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1472.93159375,"end":1478.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1479.42846875,"end":1484.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1486.2122187500001,"end":1487.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1488.7603437500002,"end":1490.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1491.0215937500002,"end":1491.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1493.90721875,"end":1494.7003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1495.1390937500003,"end":1499.2228437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1499.54346875,"end":1502.8340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1503.2897187500002,"end":1506.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1507.55909375,"end":1509.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1510.0397187500002,"end":1514.7984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1515.7265937500001,"end":1521.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1522.71284375,"end":1526.0540937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1526.81346875,"end":1527.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1528.3153437500002,"end":1533.2259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1534.1540937500001,"end":1535.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1536.6853437500001,"end":1537.5628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1538.1534687500002,"end":1539.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1542.2540937500003,"end":1544.6165937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1544.6165937500002,"end":1545.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1546.0172187500002,"end":1547.0128437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1547.1140937500002,"end":1548.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1549.86471875,"end":1551.9234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1553.25659375,"end":1555.6865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1556.2772187500002,"end":1560.3272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1561.8797187500002,"end":1566.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1566.6890937500002,"end":1570.3340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1571.09346875,"end":1573.0172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1574.8734687500003,"end":1577.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1577.3709687500002,"end":1581.8597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1582.3322187500003,"end":1591.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1592.05221875,"end":1593.8578437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1593.9928437500002,"end":1599.7134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1600.8609687500002,"end":1604.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1604.57346875,"end":1612.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1615.9134687500002,"end":1629.1265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1630.15596875,"end":1638.5597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1638.89721875,"end":1640.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1641.3103437500001,"end":1650.7603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1651.70534375,"end":1653.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1655.8228437500002,"end":1656.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1658.5397187500002,"end":1659.7884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1661.4590937500002,"end":1674.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1674.9759687500002,"end":1687.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1687.96971875,"end":1700.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1701.33471875,"end":1701.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1702.33034375,"end":1703.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1704.5240937500002,"end":1705.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1705.5197187500003,"end":1705.7728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1709.5865937500002,"end":1710.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1710.46409375,"end":1711.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1712.0840937500002,"end":1714.6153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1715.2059687500002,"end":1722.9515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1723.7109687500001,"end":1731.6422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1731.6422187500002,"end":1732.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1731.97971875,"end":1744.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1745.19284375,"end":1746.0197187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1746.61034375,"end":1752.0272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1754.20409375,"end":1755.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1755.5372187500002,"end":1766.6409687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1766.9447187500002,"end":1767.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1768.54784375,"end":1773.1547187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1770.23534375,"end":1775.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1776.15846875,"end":1781.9972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1782.8409687500002,"end":1786.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1785.0347187500001,"end":1794.3328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1788.79784375,"end":1789.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1793.57346875,"end":1799.5978437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1801.0997187500002,"end":1811.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1803.56346875,"end":1804.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1811.4103437500003,"end":1816.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1815.1903437500002,"end":1819.9322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1819.9322187500002,"end":1820.4890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1820.4890937500002,"end":1823.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1822.0078437500001,"end":1823.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1823.39159375,"end":1838.6634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1823.9315937500003,"end":1826.6990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1841.6503437500003,"end":1848.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1848.4678437500002,"end":1856.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1857.0403437500001,"end":1869.1565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1869.3422187500003,"end":1870.1859687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1870.6753437500001,"end":1876.6659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1881.0365937500003,"end":1888.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1890.0140937500003,"end":1894.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1895.4478437500002,"end":1903.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1904.3240937500002,"end":1910.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1910.1797187500001,"end":1914.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1915.37721875,"end":1917.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1918.3809687500002,"end":1920.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1919.5453437500003,"end":1919.6634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1920.3384687500002,"end":1922.0259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1922.6165937500002,"end":1925.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1926.48096875,"end":1933.5515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1934.8340937500002,"end":1938.7828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1939.3228437500002,"end":1945.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1945.6847187500002,"end":1950.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1950.9665937500001,"end":1952.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1952.1647187500002,"end":1953.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1956.5015937500002,"end":1957.7840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1958.5603437500001,"end":1960.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1960.1465937500002,"end":1961.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1962.4078437500002,"end":1964.1459687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1964.4665937500001,"end":1969.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1971.1153437500002,"end":1972.8197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1975.40159375,"end":1978.4897187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1979.08034375,"end":1983.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1985.83034375,"end":1988.4122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1990.5553437500002,"end":1992.3103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1992.5297187500003,"end":1994.2172187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1994.8753437500002,"end":1995.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1999.6509687500002,"end":2001.0684687500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.087,"end":15.311,"text":"好 謝謝主席 是不是請我們洪部長有請洪部長林委員好部長 上次我在這裡質詢你關於開放12歲以下有子女的家庭進行申請外勞家事服務員的政策"},{"start":37.439,"end":64.56,"text":"走出去外面然後就有人來陳情了我們立法院裡面的職員工他就說他們真的很可憐因為他爸爸中風而他們的外籍移工因為知道了這個政策以後馬上就跟他說他要換轉換僱主他要去顧小孩比較他優先想要去選擇顧小孩的工作"},{"start":66.111,"end":94.25,"text":"這個是立法院的職員工我走出去人家就馬上來說那我中風的家人怎麼辦誰要顧所以我就想說難道我們的外籍移工我們所謂的外勞現在變成開放外勞來照顧弱勢照顧中風的照顧失能的要變成照顧最強勢的照顧最有錢的照顧優勢的嗎"},{"start":96.312,"end":101.965,"text":"因為大家都知道不是每一個有孩子的父母都請得起外勞"},{"start":103.936,"end":126.105,"text":"而大概會只有所得大概所得台灣人的全部的所得分成五等份第一等份的前五分之一的家庭才有能力去負擔去申請家庭帮佣的外勞而這個所得就是年所得要大概兩三百萬兩三百萬的所得的家庭才請得起"},{"start":131.946,"end":157.607,"text":"所以我從來沒有想到說有一天從照顧弱勢變成照顧最優勢最強勢的那就算了你們有沒有配套你可不可以永遠不覺得外勞提供到我就沒話說了他不但是這樣子要留住既有照顧中風和失能的外勞一個失能的家庭要留住這個外勞你知道他還要給他加多少薪水嗎"},{"start":158.812,"end":163.682,"text":"你不給他加薪 他要跑掉他就是要走那要加多少薪水啊"},{"start":169.885,"end":198.432,"text":"我可以說明嗎你說啊我們其實在去年8月的時候我們其實有做法規的修訂那是針對這個在家庭看護如果要轉換的話那在程序上應該要由這個重症家庭來優先來承接那必須符合14天內優先這個媒合給重症家庭那是要在沒有重症家庭承接的狀況之下我現在要問你圖法不足以自行"},{"start":199.312,"end":213.98,"text":"你講這個都是道理講說你有配套這個都行不通啊他就每天跟你吵架我上個禮拜不是跟你講了嗎他就每天說你要讓我出去你要合意合意讓我走但是就算轉出去也是要優先讓中正家庭承接啊會嗎 是嗎現在法規修訂是這樣子的是嗎 有罰則嗎有罰則嗎要處罰仲介還是處罰外籍義工"},{"start":228.598,"end":246.788,"text":"有罰則嗎那個在轉換的順序上面我們有我現在問你說你有什麼處分的機制否則這個形同道德勸說你會處罰仲介嗎你會處罰外籍移工嗎你要換僱主要轉出去你不知道不少你不知道還要官僚告訴你所以你對這個配套你不知道嗎"},{"start":257.391,"end":283.448,"text":"這個機制存在而且在我們優先媒合的順序上面就是優先媒合那我就不走那個我就要直接轉去有人要我的小孩如果違反的話就會把他送出去我現在問你如果違反的話就會在60天內就會把他送出去所以你是懲罰這個外籍移工喔最好是喔不要在這裡吃我肥的如果惡性代工他不按照我們的法規來進行懲罰你這個如果就太離譜了叫惡性代工"},{"start":284.509,"end":288.471,"text":"他沒有惡性代工啊 我怎麼證明你怎麼證明他惡性代工他每天跟你玩遊戲沒在理你生氣 你如果生氣 你要給他擋手你就說你不行了多少人是這樣生氣了受不了大吵大鬧以後對外籍移工就動手了他就可以合法的轉換僱主了你在講的前提都是都是不食人間煙火的都沒有務實的"},{"start":313.792,"end":326.746,"text":"事實上就是吵架以後就可以轉換了事實上就是他不想要照顧重度失能的然後他就要去照顧小孩了事實上就是你沒有足夠的外勞來支撐"},{"start":330.151,"end":353.547,"text":"所以你讓移工市場外勞要留住他的經費 薪水大幅上升是啊 就是這樣子啊我們要講的是說 一個弱勢關懷出身的部長你端出這一種搶台灣人工作的政策讓台灣 欸 照顧小孩 家庭幫傭台灣不是找不到工耶 都有人在做耶"},{"start":357.998,"end":364.683,"text":"照顧小孩 不管是居家保姆不管是什麼樣的都收拓單位然後 欸少子化 今年生幾個孩子今年我都生十萬了有沒有越來越少的狀況整體的市場在萎縮然後保姆就是這樣子在那裡托兒中心在那裡你還要開放人家來搶保姆的生意"},{"start":385.595,"end":398.614,"text":"家庭幫傭 終點費的家庭家事服務工台灣人幫傭然後這個清潔工煮飯的都有人在做欸你開放人家來搶他們工作"},{"start":399.71,"end":410.773,"text":"你說臺灣看護本級看護也有人耶所得臺灣前五分之一所得的有錢人有資料的現在也在搶耶也在搶榜樣耶其實是臺灣人比較貴你現在把外籍移工可以搶他媽想臺灣的資料多小的"},{"start":423.069,"end":436.733,"text":"你這個政策第一個搶走了台灣人的工作第二個 本來在照顧最需要的台灣人沒人要做的家庭失能的 中風的 重度殘障的這一個移工 全大家不該做啊所以台灣人失業 外籍勞工缺工 外勞缺工"},{"start":450.222,"end":455.504,"text":"重度癱瘓在那裡就沒人要走所以現在這樣叫人情何以堪啊你是弱勢關懷出身的部長然後你端出一個這樣的政策叫台灣人失業 叫外籍勞工缺工叫有錢的人 能夠入省籍 可以請到鄉的叫窮的人 乾坤的人 中風的家庭請沒人"},{"start":479.606,"end":484.889,"text":"這樣子怎麼行呢這樣子怎麼行呢然後你剛剛在這裡一開始你就報告了你說啊為了一間夜間啦臨時需求的沒人顧孩子啦所以呢"},{"start":494.966,"end":510.975,"text":"你們要開放這個外籍幫傭兼顧小孩啦然後呢 你剛才又回答立委蘇貞欣問你說因為現在有長輩當後援的家庭越來越少了需要人手 所以開放了"},{"start":512.274,"end":519.257,"text":"寶釘 我問你 你是羅東寶寶釘 還是衛福部部長啦夜間臨時需求 托兒育兒 這不是衛福部的業務嗎沒有長輩後援 所以你要開放外籍幫傭現在長輩是理所當然 長輩一定要到各個村"},{"start":535.478,"end":537.199,"text":"你這種思想裡面裝了什麼價值你應該講國家要進來幫忙政府要端出照顧公共化的政策你怎麼說長輩退位了 變少了不是這樣說的嘛"},{"start":552.697,"end":573.981,"text":"你作為一個所謂的進步人士你應該端出的是照顧公共化更多的你知道我們衛福部你有部位整合嗎你知道衛福部我們剛立了一個兒托法嗎我們這個裡面要加強各地方政府要有定點臨托還有活動臨托你知道這什麼意思嗎你不知道夜間臨時需求你剛才不是說要開放外樓"},{"start":582.95,"end":592.32,"text":"我們的定點零拖就是現在局府中心或地方政府可以設置更多的定點甚至連在車站都會設置定點零拖你有事 要怕孩子來政府辦的政府委託夾這麼多的你上來 我跟你說三點鐘 四點鐘你可以臨時拖的"},{"start":605.527,"end":613.154,"text":"這就是公共政策啊這就是我們額托法現在正在審查的啊這就是現在地方政府也有人在做的定點零托一天這麼多你知不知道兩百塊如果不是三百塊有需要嗎 有啊"},{"start":625.376,"end":635.3,"text":"所以你要端出這種政策在衛福部的業務啊你勞動部去搶了衛福部你講的那些理由都好像是衛福部部長所以我不知道你你這樣子做你端出了這個東西你怎麼還有辦法在這裡講的義正言辭呢義正辭言呢不中"},{"start":655.612,"end":683.566,"text":"然後你說開放外籍幫庸的事業衝擊評估性別影響評估兒童最佳利益評估你們在做了你什麼時候可以做好什麼時候可以寫完你評估都還沒出來你就開放了4月13就要上路了評估都沒做好沒寫完你就出來了當然外面也有人講了啦你找台大某某人寫啦權威啦專家啦大家都很想看他評估出什麼樣子啦"},{"start":685.697,"end":688.679,"text":"他會照實評估嗎 大家也都拭目以待啦對不對你大概是什麼時候要公布 你們會做完相關的報告我們會在下一次的性評會的時候提出報告性評會 那失業衝擊評估呢"},{"start":705.137,"end":720.026,"text":"包括就業的影響包括這個性別的部分都會在下一次性評會的時候提出那要從最佳利益評估呢?下一次性評會議是什麼時候?行政院的?這段行政院安排大概什麼時候?所以你不知道啊?沒有擺就沒辦法?這個是定期的會議啊"},{"start":728.956,"end":756.289,"text":"你這個都沒有告訴我們你什麼時候要出來如果是定期你可以回答我什麼時候會出來啊但是確切的安排的時間是行政院那邊對啊你定期的下一次理論上應該是幾月包委員我們那個性評會好像3月30號才剛剛開完嘛所以是4月30還是5月30我們那個會看那個院那邊看院那邊的安排他說定期會開啊定期是多久一次"},{"start":757.034,"end":777.904,"text":"姓平輝我記得差不多四個月四個月喔所以你如果三個月三十再來叫到你四個月喔 你這法案政策就做下去了 再做到評估要做什麼都已經執行了 政策都執行了那我們要這個評估 不過評估出來說有衝擊 你都開放了怎麼辦委員 我想是 我知道委員對這個部門非常關心 我想跟委員"},{"start":784.309,"end":797.198,"text":"其實這整個真的是我們的策略社會投資嘛我們知道現在家庭現在是在變遷當中我要委員報告就是說我們不是說我們現在要做這一項兩項都不做 我要委員報告我沒有在問你啦 我現在在問外籍移工政策 外籍勞工政策啦你不可能退部長回答 你先下去啦"},{"start":810.352,"end":823.986,"text":"我們是要檢視開放外籍幫傭的政策對台灣的勞工和托育的負面衝擊是什麼那台灣我要講不是我自己說的啦台灣障礙者權益促進會他們有一個新聞稿他們就是這樣講"},{"start":828.45,"end":840.757,"text":"政府雖然以協助育兒 釋放女性勞動力為名但是你缺乏完整的配套 沒有完整的影響評估下恐怕會惡化性別和階級的不平等擴大資源分配的不均讓照顧責任進一步私有化 淪為有錢人才能享有的特權"},{"start":850.123,"end":864.215,"text":"因為你所謂的前五分之一的家庭有能力負擔幫傭者這是典型的 這個政策是階級政策對障礙者家庭而言 他們很憂心他們憂心放寬幫傭資格 引發搶工效應"},{"start":869.335,"end":888.103,"text":"身心障礙者知道啊 搶工啊導致原本就吃緊的外籍看護人力被引流到工作條件較輕鬆的高所得家庭進一步稀釋掉弱勢障礙者的照顧資源照顧的困境會加劇我現在講 有錢人 請幫忙我請台灣人可能五萬我請這個外籍移工三萬我給他們中金四萬"},{"start":895.486,"end":899.648,"text":"有一個普通人他們到外籍看護就好了可以給到四萬五萬的啊不可能嘛 不可能嘛所以會不會搶工 當然會除非源源不絕外籍移工的勞動力市場是供給大於需求才不會發生問題啦"},{"start":922.451,"end":929.394,"text":"現在外籍勞動力市場是進入賣方市場供給遠遠小於需求是我現在外籍移工要選雇主 不是雇主選移工遠遠小於需求 價格上升現在是移工選雇主所以會不會產生問題 當然會產生問題現在我請教你說"},{"start":949.066,"end":966.032,"text":"這個政策到底是不是階級政策部長你說說看這政策是不是階級政策跟文說沒有第一個其實對於整體的相關育兒支持相關的政策這其實是一個整體的政策組合不要講育兒啦連家庭幫傭都一樣他搶走台灣人幫傭的工作嘛"},{"start":970.376,"end":996.085,"text":"所以我們針對不同的需求我們會規劃不同的政策我現在問你這是不是階級政策只服務所得前五分之一的是不是我們針對不同的需求會設計不同的政策那其他所得五分之四的人育兒的家庭難道他們就沒有需求了嗎也會設計其他的政策去協助他那請問你他要夜間臨時這個需求他回家很累家務不想做了那你要怎麼幫他"},{"start":998.516,"end":1006.521,"text":"你幫他什麼其他五分之四的喔他回去也很累了他回去也不想工作了他也不想做家事了那請問你端出什麼政策幫他我們當然要用其他的政策沒有啦你沒有辦法幫他嘛不是嗎你應該這樣我現在跟你講說你沒有辦法幫他"},{"start":1025.083,"end":1029.264,"text":"外傭可以幫你接小孩 但他不能讓你準時下班外傭可以幫你煮飯 但他不能幫你加薪外傭可以幫你陪孩子 但他不可能替代父母在教育上的角色更現實一點 連外傭本身也需要被管理 被安排 被負責你會發現最後可能是女人"},{"start":1048.63,"end":1071.512,"text":"女人不只是說多一個幫手 而還多了一份工作還要一份人力資源調配部門的兼職事實上這個政策是假設家庭可以無痛升級成小型雇主單位政府將照顧的責任和問題丟給家庭然後家庭再把壓力轉嫁給外勞"},{"start":1073.093,"end":1088.589,"text":"再將照護工作的性別責任轉嫁給更弱勢的勞工把照護責任從本國女性轉嫁到外籍廉價的女性勞動力這個是一個很典型的責任向下流動的鏈條所以"},{"start":1091.604,"end":1110.908,"text":"中產家庭勉強強稱低薪家庭用不起高收入的家庭本來就不缺他只是花的錢成本高或低看起來好像是大家都受益事實上是擴大階級這個差距啊為什麼要講這個呢我現在在跟你討論你知道"},{"start":1114.861,"end":1126.25,"text":"在很多人其實都走過這一段路 以新加坡為例新加坡來 我找一個新加坡的這個數據以新加坡為例 其實他們開放嘛 而且他們沒有最低工資嘛 對嘛"},{"start":1134.912,"end":1156.497,"text":"新加坡在2010年有一個Teresa還有一個Leon我不曉得這個那個啦他發表了一篇Made for work-life balancethink again中文譯文叫做用女傭換取工作與生活平衡嗎可以嗎請三思他點出了新加坡社會對外籍家庭幫傭的依賴但是"},{"start":1159.177,"end":1179.234,"text":"為社會帶來沉重的代價不但強化了鞏固了照顧應該有女性而不是男性負責還導致企業僱主忽略職場育兒友善的必要性然後可以不在乎員工工作生活平衡的需求所以在這種狀況裡面他們就發現其實並不是只有利沒有弊"},{"start":1184.699,"end":1205.468,"text":"然後員工想要請假你家裡不是有幫傭了嗎你怎麼還請假 我想要回去顧小孩 不行啊你家裡有幫傭啦所以這個政策並不是說有錢人都只有得到好處而已他可能讓他的僱主更有理由和更有藉口那我現在在講說不是一般人請得起的現在連有三間房的"},{"start":1214.697,"end":1226.301,"text":"這個住宅都很少事實上也買不起這個你知道在台北市喔每月生活所必須喔撫養一個人是48910元"},{"start":1229.829,"end":1256.687,"text":"是 撫養一個人是每月要四萬八千九百一十元事實上再不要講房貸 車貸還有這個其他的費用啦事實上的確就是錢所得全台灣人的所得錢等據五個等據裡面的第一等據的人有辦法負擔得起其他都沒有辦法連空間 生活空間都沒有辦法負擔得起歐洲人口學刊喔 這個"},{"start":1258.223,"end":1272.502,"text":"European Journal of Population早在2013年就有一篇由人口學家叫Angela還有經濟學家Oliver他撰寫的論文他明白指出長工時會減少生育率"},{"start":1273.283,"end":1291.796,"text":"而且由於女性就業以後蠟燭兩頭燒的壓力遠遠高於男性所以長工時對女性的生育率殺傷力尤其大他們計算出的結果是一個國家的女性平均年總工時增加100個小時生育率將會減少0.08%"},{"start":1296.066,"end":1324.364,"text":"人口經濟學的雜誌2023年也提到雇用外籍幫傭有望減輕家長養育子女的負擔但有些學者也表示在考慮家務外包對生育決策的影響時後面還有很多重的機制在運作文章提到聘僱家庭幫傭家長實際上可以擁有更多時間可能會育兒"},{"start":1325.465,"end":1343.917,"text":"也有可能真的會提高他們的意願但是第一種第一種原本就全職沒有上班全職從事家務的女性有了家庭幫傭以後會待在家的成本會變高因為開支變多了他們就會選擇進入勞動市場"},{"start":1347.432,"end":1369.671,"text":"但廣義而言女性可能會選擇就業增加勞動時間然後這樣子你以為是好了增加勞動力不因為這樣子他們對生育的意願就受到負面的影響這是第一種你以為有人來幫我了我要去工作了但是工作長工時就不想生了第二種"},{"start":1373.257,"end":1396.39,"text":"聘僱家庭的幫傭對本來就有工作剛才是本來沒有工作的現在是本來就在工作就業中的女性而言也會產生負面影響例如為了獲得晉升或追求更高職位而延長工作時間或者是老闆知道你有家庭幫傭事情都找你做你也回不了家"},{"start":1397.463,"end":1418.283,"text":"所以這個是人口經濟學雜誌在2023年提到你以為家庭幫庸制度完美無缺提升女性勞動力提升生育率事實上不是那台灣呢台灣的總工時名列前茅啊112年南韓的總工時一年多少"},{"start":1421.949,"end":1430.435,"text":"1874日本的總工時是多少1637北歐的瑞典1416西歐的荷蘭1351112年的台灣總工時2019韓國1874日本1637"},{"start":1443.055,"end":1471.769,"text":"所以如果人口學家那個Angela跟那個經濟學家Oliver的量化研究論文這個推論台灣總生育率極低完全就是預料之中因為工時太工時太長對生育力生育的意願太低那外籍邦庸最泛濫的國家是哪一個國家新加坡啊新加坡啊"},{"start":1473.27,"end":1482.642,"text":"剛剛不是講了嗎 新加坡的外籍邦庸政策全開放他新加坡一年總工時多少 112年總工時多少2267亞洲第一高不是嗎"},{"start":1494.019,"end":1521.07,"text":"所以呢就算在職的女性需要聘請幫手來協助家務她的月薪要多少肯定一定要比一定要比這個聘僱外傭的薪水更高那如果還沒工作的女性未來她從事的工作薪資要多少錢才能夠負擔起去引進這個外傭呢這個薪資年薪沒有數百萬真的是沒那麼容易啦"},{"start":1522.745,"end":1531.689,"text":"女性為什麼要主動放棄就業選擇在家育兒部長為什麼為什麼女性要準備生小孩在家育兒的時候勞動力就下滑為什麼為什麼是女性保定為什麼你也是要回答因為女性可能她薪資是比較低的對啊薪資比較低啊那你做了什麼你勞動部做了什麼你要提高女性的勞參率"},{"start":1553.311,"end":1572.536,"text":"那你做了什麼 你端出了什麼讓女性繼續留在職場 不要 不要而不是說為了顧小孩 然後就不上班因為顧小孩的成本很高我上班的薪水這麼一點點那不如我自己顧 不是嗎"},{"start":1574.949,"end":1599.38,"text":"所以你要解決這個勞參率你應該端出你的政策而不是只有外籍幫傭而且為什麼會這樣放棄就業都不是所得前五分之一那一種女性啦那一種家庭啦都是你沒看到的所得全台灣所得五分之一以外的五分之四的家庭的女性"},{"start":1600.919,"end":1612.223,"text":"而勞動力最多這一群也是最重要的你服務那五分之一的所得前五分之一的那所得後面五分之四的人怎麼辦呢怎麼辦呢你這個東西就是看得出來女性仍然是家務跟育兒實質的承擔者號稱要留住女性 女性勞工你都沒有解決這個問題"},{"start":1630.739,"end":1650.444,"text":"薪資低於聘僱外籍幫傭的成本或外籍或者是保姆的成本所以即便有意願也沒有辦法他要請外傭也沒辦法就算有能力好他有能力的女性好了他請一個外籍幫傭可能你變相的要投入工作的時間要更長這也是另一種剝削啊對不對所以這個政策"},{"start":1661.496,"end":1686.148,"text":"我再說一遍 外籍包容這個政策真的會造成台灣人失業外籍勞工短缺然後大家搶移工 只有錢留得住移工那沒有錢的 中風的 失能的 癱瘓的這一些真正需要 最需要長照的照顧的體系的這一些家庭怎麼辦"},{"start":1687.469,"end":1702.554,"text":"而顧小孩的 家庭幫傭的那些有錢人他本來就買得起結果你讓他有便宜的外勞他解雇他自己家庭裡面的本勞這樣這樣子好嗎部長 請合一看"},{"start":1712.334,"end":1722.676,"text":"跟委員說其實這段時間的確其實有很多其實是中產的雙性家庭來表達他們的確很有需要這個政策"},{"start":1723.752,"end":1743.897,"text":"你現在講的中產的雙薪的家庭的確很需要這個政策他們的實質薪水是多少他們的代表性是什麼因為每次勞動部推了一個什麼政策都會說我們去做了有意願你們沒有做好失業衝擊評估你們先做好需求評估這就是還沒設建未設建先畫把都已經畫好了啊早就知道啦"},{"start":1754.246,"end":1781.299,"text":"你講這些話 敢對你過去的自己會高大的你說中產的 中產的也有能力 你不是講有錢人你意思是說 有錢人請得起 中產的家庭也請得起一個外傭委員的確是有中產的中心家庭教導 阿翔啊那我問你 你定義的中產家庭是什麼啦你所定義的中產薪水的家庭是多少叫中產 你可以告訴我嗎"},{"start":1783.421,"end":1790.845,"text":"他跟我表達他們可能雙親是個人還是多數那你所謂的中產階級雙親是多少錢可能爸爸媽媽加起來可能有十多萬出頭的薪資他們就希望能夠請"},{"start":1801.404,"end":1815.552,"text":"10多萬的薪水他本來是不是就有需求他本來那他本來他有沒有請人在顧他如果要他的確反應因為夜間所以你這個政策是顧孩子為主家庭幫傭為輔不是"},{"start":1821.016,"end":1838.111,"text":"那我現在告訴你新加坡那個例子新加坡人家走過了那一段路新加坡的例子你又是怎麼講你現在都可以繼續講繼續拗啊但是新加坡就告訴你活先生的例子就在那裡了"},{"start":1842.088,"end":1856.047,"text":"讓婦女出去外面工時越來越長然後家庭工作沒有得到平衡然後呢 我剛剛已經 我也是跟你講了很多遍啊外傭可以幫你接小孩 但他不能讓你準時下班"},{"start":1857.148,"end":1876.449,"text":"可以兼你的小孩但你不能準時下班外傭可以幫你煮飯但他不會幫你加薪外傭可以幫你陪孩子但他沒有辦法成為他的父母你孩子的父母在教育上該扮演的角色父母該有的陪伴的角色"},{"start":1881.075,"end":1903.355,"text":"我的意思是說 五分之四的人家庭需求 你怎麼辦 你怎麼沒有端出來你只服 這是不是一個階級政策你說不是啊 因為中產人員 有人跟你反應啊 有人跟你反應就可以了那我在這裡也跟你大聲疾呼陳情 為那些癱瘓的 失能的 中風的家庭在這裡跟你請命"},{"start":1904.389,"end":1932.723,"text":"你讓他們的外勞不要跟他吵架說要轉換雇主要去雇有錢人的小孩我也在這裡幫中風的、癱瘓的、失能的家庭跟你請命請你不要說不加薪的話他就要跑了我會替他們跟你請命不要為了照顧每天蓋腰巴擦我也替他們請命可以不要讓他們的家屬心驚膽戰說我中風的伯母不知道什麼人要照顧"},{"start":1935.192,"end":1952.8,"text":"那你怎麼辦 你端出一個什麼政策給我們有人跟你請命說 我很辛苦 我需要有人幫我照顧孩子 照顧家務那這一群 這一群 失能的 癱瘓的 家庭的辛苦 什麼人要幫他解決我也在這裡請命啊"},{"start":1958.584,"end":1968.833,"text":"真的 真的 不然你去想辦法讓外籍移工的供給源源不絕 供不應求供大於求現在是供不應求 你讓他供大於求啊現在不是台灣人在唱歌 日本 韓國 世界都在唱外籍勞工"},{"start":1985.865,"end":1992.598,"text":"大家全世界都在搶工欸不要以為外籍移工開放這麼簡單這不是啊謝謝林淑芬委員的諮詢"}]}},{"id":"168157","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168157","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c7972ded3be636576bd67b93b5004dc02994a069f48f295f352c7019b845b5da65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"12:40:23 - 12:54:27","影片長度":"00:14:04","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T12:40:23+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T12:54:27+08:00","duration":844,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.257843750000001,"end":7.236593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.793468750000001,"end":8.654093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.177218750000002,"end":10.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.442843750000002,"end":11.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.349718750000001,"end":14.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.35284375,"end":19.875968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.58471875,"end":20.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.60159375,"end":21.985343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.69409375,"end":23.824718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.90909375,"end":24.719093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.20846875,"end":26.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.452843750000003,"end":30.254093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.92909375,"end":32.228468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.53221875,"end":33.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.32096875,"end":34.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.97471875,"end":36.244718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.78471875,"end":37.290968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.830968750000004,"end":38.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.49721875,"end":41.408468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":42.26909375,"end":43.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.37034375,"end":42.657218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.02846875,"end":45.087218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.13784375,"end":48.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.86721875,"end":53.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.587843750000005,"end":58.992218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.633468750000006,"end":70.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.39971875,"end":92.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.91096875000001,"end":97.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.17596875000001,"end":112.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.34659375000001,"end":114.86534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.85659375,"end":118.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.89409375000001,"end":121.53096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":122.13846875,"end":127.63971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.14596875,"end":134.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":134.45721875,"end":145.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":146.10096875000002,"end":162.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.50471875000002,"end":155.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.05659375000002,"end":165.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.65096875,"end":163.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.54096875000002,"end":172.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.28284375,"end":170.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.50221875,"end":170.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.12221875,"end":175.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.39159375,"end":183.25971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.56346875,"end":185.36909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.77409375000002,"end":191.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.93346875,"end":206.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.86784375000002,"end":238.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.20034375,"end":242.35596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.64284375000003,"end":254.38784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.92784375000002,"end":258.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":259.61909375,"end":288.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.24346875000003,"end":291.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.95159375000003,"end":300.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.74346875000003,"end":307.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.32471875000005,"end":319.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.47471875,"end":324.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.95909375,"end":326.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.88284375,"end":358.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.89096875,"end":356.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.74284375,"end":489.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.91221875,"end":505.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.92659375000005,"end":511.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.30096875,"end":565.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.76534375,"end":568.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.7522187500001,"end":572.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.5322187500001,"end":574.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.1184687500001,"end":582.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.48409375,"end":595.0772187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.3640937499999,"end":599.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.35909375,"end":605.2865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.7253437500001,"end":615.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":617.58846875,"end":635.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.32846875,"end":638.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":639.2053437500001,"end":666.2390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.90596875,"end":720.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.01534375,"end":725.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.34784375,"end":729.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.2334687500002,"end":733.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.7053437500001,"end":734.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":735.5447187500001,"end":750.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":750.9853437500001,"end":760.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":760.62096875,"end":765.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.54846875,"end":766.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.55659375,"end":769.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":770.4084687500001,"end":807.3647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":807.5334687500001,"end":813.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":813.9965937500001,"end":815.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":815.8022187500001,"end":835.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":835.03971875,"end":844.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":844.9622187500001,"end":845.1140937500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.62,"end":32.801,"text":"謝謝主席有請鄭部長還有袁明慧好有請鄭部長袁明慧委員好部長好辛苦了部長我不曉得您知不知道原住民的人口目前佔全國總數"},{"start":36.018,"end":51.817,"text":"的比例你知道嗎不到3%這是很聰明的回答那我跟部長來說明其實在我們看那個數據2004年的時候"},{"start":54.976,"end":58.617,"text":"我们全国人数有2269万人到了2013年2337万人但是2026年呢下滑到2328万人"},{"start":70.581,"end":88.677,"text":"相對的我們來看原住民的人口數他從44.3萬爬升到53.2萬再爬升到現在的62.9萬那如果以比例來看的話呢在2004年到現在2026年他從1.9%"},{"start":93.201,"end":114.62,"text":"來到2.2%再來到現在的2.7%所以剛才的部長的回答是非常有智慧的3%以下那我覺得部長如果您看到這樣的數據你會不會覺得原住民沒有少子化的現象對國家很有貢獻部長您覺得如何"},{"start":119.983,"end":144.692,"text":"我想原住民的這些族群事實上在我心目中充滿創意而且才華橫溢我有許多同學他們就展現這樣的不管從藝術或者從文學從社會觀有很多另外我們也看到台灣現在"},{"start":146.172,"end":173.725,"text":"有一定比例的我們在所謂的在世界上看到台灣的貢獻台灣之光事實上也是來自於我們原住民包含經典賽包含許多的這些國際的運動這個競技上的一些我們光是看每一次出國比賽的棒球隊大概都有一半50%的比例是原住民所以確實很有貢獻您提到如果101大樓"},{"start":176.742,"end":190.873,"text":"雖然不是原住民去攀登的但是101大樓是很多原住民去蓋的甚至是目前勞動部統計全國前五大的缺工行業"},{"start":192.114,"end":218.111,"text":"恰恰是原住民的前五大投入的行業所以沒有人要做的都是原住民在做確實對我們這個國家貢獻很大但是我們要靠教育翻身所以在我們的原教法的第十一條特別這樣子寫著中央政府因寬裂預算專款辦理原住民主教育其比率"},{"start":218.891,"end":236.54,"text":"合计不得少于中央教育主管机关预算总额1.9%并依其需求逐年成长这个是2004年的法条所以呢在2013年的时候呢我们把它修到了2.2%"},{"start":239.601,"end":257.91,"text":"這個是10年的一個調整但是又過了13年到現在又時隔13年我們的比例又來到了2.7%想要了解一下部長您覺得在您的任內該不該做這樣的調整"},{"start":259.656,"end":275.569,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心原住民的許多的教育的一些經費那確實我們這些年在根據法令上的一個編制我們以15年來講已經到2.54那如果就人口比例好像又似乎稍微"},{"start":276.709,"end":303.908,"text":"少了一點但是怎麼樣對原住民教育投入更多的一些資源包括對原住民人才的培育我想這教育部基本立場跟委員是一致的好謝謝但我也想聽一聽因為我知道原民會在這一路上應該都是教文處在負責這個業務那想聽一下表示一下意見原民會的意見好謝謝委員對我們原住民族孩子的關心我想"},{"start":304.908,"end":323.903,"text":"原教好規定的原住民教育的總經費的1.9%是十三年前修法的時候所訂定不過我們這幾年跟教育部合作已經把我們的年度預算的編列已經達到了2.54已經遠超過法律規定的比例了那我想"},{"start":325.131,"end":345.804,"text":"要在法定的修法裡面去把這個比例再提升我們認為目前的現狀是已經有達到這樣的一個實際的需求不過我要提醒的是說因為從去年那個貧苦族群身份法通過之後未來今年度開始會有很多很多的貧苦族群會回到原住民族的家庭所以"},{"start":346.084,"end":367.38,"text":"未來原住民的教育的預算不能以現在的人口數來算應該是要再考慮未來平衡處境加入之後會有更多的需求會加進來這個是可能我們跟教育部一起要再來思考的好 謝謝原民會的一個回應因為我們希望可以開始啟動原教法第11條的修正"},{"start":369.341,"end":391.67,"text":"因為也已經隔很久人口比例呢也往上升那更重要的是我們從目前高教原住民的出在學率跟全體高教生的出在學率那個是斷崖式的差距將近30%所以呢我覺得在這個部分需要更多的教育經費來協助我們的原住民的學生那我也謝謝部長"},{"start":395.371,"end":404.944,"text":"長期以來去肯定這樣的做法那接下來就是想要提到的就是為什麼我們需要更多的經費就像陳培宇委員剛剛講的實驗三法施行也已經十年了"},{"start":410.811,"end":426.071,"text":"那也需要去做一些討論所以可能會辦公聽會那原住民的部分原住民實驗學校很多也都已經走了一段時間他們也很迷惘不知道下一步何去何從"},{"start":426.852,"end":450.527,"text":"那甚至是原住民族學校法被明定在原教法裡面是要定定的執法可是時至今日大家對於什麼是原住民族學校也沒有想法 沒有共識所以也謝謝原民會已經編列經費開始做事辦但是這些都很需要更多的原住民的教育經費來支撐所以在這個部分就特別的要請部長來支持"},{"start":454.77,"end":475.217,"text":"那因為今天也排了一個就是關於教師法第25條的一個審查那這個是源自於這些年發生了一件事因為109年修訂的這個教師解聘辦法就是有了校事會議這個名稱校園事件處理法"},{"start":478.658,"end":500.09,"text":"那麼到了112年的時候呢為了要說避免同一個事件重複的調查不同的機制運作有不同的調查結果本來是好意啦所以希望把性別事件以外的所有失對生的違法事件全部都整合到這個校事會議裡面結果沒有想到美意不成反而變成一場夢魘"},{"start":506.514,"end":529.174,"text":"那我們可以看到我們也有請教育部幫我們做統計才實施校事會議的這樣的一個整合型結果短短一年發現原來80%的投訴案件是不成立的而且成立的當中呢其實只有50%是需要申借的那其他呢"},{"start":529.835,"end":558.174,"text":"造成我們老師這麼樣的一個動盪所以在這邊我們就是要提到說我們必須要把老師的尊嚴找回來那我也知道部長您上任以來其實我覺得啦其實你的回應是算不錯的當我們說要啟動校事會議的討論其實我們也討論了而且1月也已經公告新的包括分流包括"},{"start":558.894,"end":567.693,"text":"不處理匿名的包括要怎麼樣去新增輔佐的機制等等但是我想要請教一下部長"},{"start":568.803,"end":594.643,"text":"因為還是有人喊廢除校事會議還是有人這樣喊雖然我們覺得這樣的一個修訂已經回到一二年之前原來的做法但是仍有人發出了廢除校事會議這樣的聲音所以我想跟部長請示一下請教一下如果明年的一月"},{"start":595.524,"end":614.983,"text":"我們再來統計從1月新實施的這個辦法我們希望明年的1月看到實施的一個結果那如果還是不盡理想我不知道部長您會回應他們很多人喊要廢除消失會議這件事嗎"},{"start":617.622,"end":638.678,"text":"各位報告 確實我們新的校試法以後我們也一直在掌握 除每個月我們現在目前是每個月在做追蹤各校因為新的校試法裡面所造成的一些實際的進展請部長報告就是現在上路以來的一個月"},{"start":639.558,"end":665.963,"text":"對每個月我們現在以後我們每個月在追蹤那在去年的時候當時也感謝委員的關心我們也希望說至少在收集這個新的法實行以後到今年的六月我們希望在今年的暑假至少有一個半年的觀察期看它的一個效益怎麼樣然後再有一個假設大家還覺得可以更精進我們再有一個新的一個想像"},{"start":666.643,"end":686.178,"text":"謝謝部長開放的態度那因為我們有高級中等以下學校教師大概有21萬人那其實大家也都很關注這件事但是至少我還是要肯定部長因為關於找回老師尊嚴這件事情有很多事情喊了很久包括調升導師費啊終點費的調升啊行政加急的調升啊還有擴大這些偏鄉教師的保險啊然後甚至是談到"},{"start":695.565,"end":719.88,"text":"年資的採計或者是終點費的調生要涵蓋到教學支援人員還有包括偏鄉久任獎金一直調一直調現在的態度應該是幾乎有反應其實都接納了所以從這個部分其實我們看得出來部長您確實是抱持著一個非常開放的態度那在這裡我們就是希望說"},{"start":721.121,"end":749.51,"text":"我們還有一件事沒做就是今天要排審的教師法的第25條我們希望對於這些被停聘然後呢復聘回復名譽我覺得最起碼該有的尊嚴就是全心還給他那至於其他的部分像家籍的部分我想人種主計種也都在這邊但是我們想要特別強調"},{"start":751.07,"end":766.087,"text":"教師幸福感的調查為什麼親子天下會來做調查就是因為我們發現這一兩年特別特別老師的聲音就是斷崖式的滑落已經有"},{"start":767.982,"end":792.571,"text":"一半的老師覺得不幸福然後這個問卷是有意義的因為是回收了5412份問卷然後有超過六成的老師是想要離開教職所以這個時候我希望在我們討論教師法第25條的時候我們希望我們的各個機關各個代表都能夠秉持著一個開放的態度"},{"start":794.172,"end":812.73,"text":"來讓老師的尊嚴至少能夠回復我們不知道怎麼回復他的名譽但是我們至少要回復他這段時間所損失的我想這是最基本的那部長不曉得你的態度如何謝謝委員關心我們老師的一個權益包括他的名義上怎麼樣去維護"},{"start":814.071,"end":833.68,"text":"我的想法跟委員的一個看法是一致的我們也希望說怎麼樣讓老師能夠更安心因為當他將心比心當他變成被不實的指控或者誤解而造成的一些訴訟後來恢復他名基本上不是規則而已我覺得是應該給他全心好 謝謝部長那在這邊就我們就等下午的排審好"},{"start":842.945,"end":843.429,"text":"好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"168185","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168185","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cfb1292a7e0d22dd9bd67b93b5004dc02d517ee29457ab42d4bd0c126c431d72f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"13:24:50 - 13:31:50","影片長度":"00:07:00","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:24:50+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:31:50+08:00","duration":420,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.00471875,"end":7.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.72596875,"end":8.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.447218750000001,"end":11.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.724718750000001,"end":80.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.35596875,"end":99.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.45784375000001,"end":111.42284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.89534375000001,"end":113.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.65034375,"end":118.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.03784375000001,"end":150.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.23096875000002,"end":172.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.79721875,"end":183.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.34409375,"end":192.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.77721875,"end":193.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.53659375,"end":193.75596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.12721875000003,"end":198.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.61596875,"end":208.58909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.97721875000002,"end":217.73534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.97159375,"end":219.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.76034375,"end":307.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.56096875000003,"end":308.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.70846875,"end":308.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.91096875,"end":351.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.81659375000004,"end":320.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.89221875000004,"end":321.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.45784375,"end":346.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.37721875,"end":349.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.54159375,"end":363.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.61721875,"end":353.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.77596875,"end":365.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.79659375,"end":367.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.91471875,"end":366.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.42096875000004,"end":368.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.83409375,"end":377.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.13784375,"end":369.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.76096875,"end":378.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.01409375000003,"end":385.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.39284375,"end":395.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.81034375,"end":385.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.26909375,"end":417.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.00284375,"end":397.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.29284375000003,"end":403.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.02471875000003,"end":419.96534375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.037,"end":8.701,"text":"好,謝謝主席我們請鄭部長好,有請鄭部長"},{"start":16.326,"end":35.943,"text":"部長好,辛苦了這個諮詢到現在那我先想跟部長討論一下這個校園暴力的問題那在2023年12月的時候發生的這個新北校園的這個戈井案那這個案子最後在2026年今年2月定宴那其中的這一個郭楠被判"},{"start":36.984,"end":54.055,"text":"12年,教說的鄰女被判刑11年,這已經定宴了這件事情也引起了說大家要對於說這個少年事件處理法要修法的一個問題那在今年3月又發生了這個國中生,一個國中女生被履棒的霸凌的案子"},{"start":54.955,"end":77.766,"text":"就是說我們當然希望說藉由這個教育然後藉由這個家庭然後學校我們一起來讓這個校園暴力的這個案子能夠減少但是呢少年事件處理法那的確也到了一個修法的一個有這個必要性那我先請教一下部長那現在就是說對於這個少年事件處理法"},{"start":78.266,"end":95.072,"text":"因為過去有這個一律塗銷前科那就是說你只要滿三年那你沒有再犯就一律塗銷前科那現在民間團體是希望說能夠採取這個按照這個他犯罪的這個輕重才分級這個來塗銷動態註記那我想請教一下這個部長的看法"},{"start":103.816,"end":124.614,"text":"這個我想從教育來看我們當然希望說人能夠給他犯錯給他有一個機會但是就這裡邊的一個塗銷他可能還是涉及到這個司法院相關的一些規劃那我是想說因為您是教育部的部長那您的看法會跟這個因為這個問題我也問過這個司法院"},{"start":127.837,"end":150.487,"text":"當然現在他們的修法是希望說分罪的輕重,比如說他如果是犯重罪的話,那可能塗銷的時間會有分這個等級,時間不同。就教育部的立場來看,您對上年事件處理法的修法是抱持什麼樣的態度?對於民間團體,他們希望採取前科分級塗銷,那您的態度怎麼樣?"},{"start":151.785,"end":171.943,"text":"這裡邊譬如說這個如果是來自一個輕罪微罪他一時的一個糊塗所犯下的就是說不會涉及到生命上的一些傷害我想我從教育的立場當然我會我會傾向這一個支持但是屬於重大型案應該他必須要對"},{"start":172.924,"end":189.714,"text":"行為付出責任這種法令上他應該要承擔的我是認為以目前這樣委員所提供的這一個圖示來看我基本上是認同的所以部長也認同就是說我們按照這個罪行的輕重再來決定說是不是要分級來做這個前科的圖效是"},{"start":194.198,"end":219.055,"text":"那其實除了這個法律之外其實我們也希望從家庭教育還有從專業的社工心理師一起來努力那希望說這個是最後的就是說因為你犯法之後那你怎麼樣去處理說這個犯罪這個青少年之後怎麼在社會上立足那我們其實教育的這部分是更重要是說在"},{"start":220.176,"end":236.956,"text":"這個校園暴力還沒發生之前我們要做什麼運防我想這才是最重要的包括這是個大課題今天很短時間沒辦法跟部長討論那麼多那有另外一個問題想請教一下部長就是校園交通安全那校園交通安全就是說因為在前幾天"},{"start":237.737,"end":263.023,"text":"發生在長庚大學的校區裡面那有一輛三重客運的公車它其實算是違規然後壓到了一個20歲的學生那這個學生目前也還在加護病房當中那這其實也不是個案那現在就是說按照教育部你們在2024年所做的校園安全災害事件的分析報告裡面光是交通事故"},{"start":264.564,"end":277.692,"text":"這個2024年就有608件然後受傷的有864人次那所以說這個其實校園的交通安全的這部分那其實是也值得這個教育部來做處理那可是現在就是說變成說"},{"start":279.193,"end":308.311,"text":"教育部跟這個交通部對於這個校園的交通安全的部分目前看來好像是處於一個深不管的地帶就是說這個在一般的道路我們就規範的很明確我們有這個道交條例這個道交的這個處罰條例來做處理但是呢這個在學校裡面其實沒有就放由這個各個學校來做處理那我不曉得說在校園這部分的話那有什麼樣更具體的一個做法那公權力要怎麼去做介入跟委員報告"},{"start":309.051,"end":333.148,"text":"我們事實上這個校安的通報裡面各大學每年發生多少的所謂的校園的交通安全的事件我們都有記錄的然後我們每一年我們把那個交通安全做得最不安全等於說他校園最不安全的我們會找學者專家去現場去看有沒有來自於基礎設施要怎麼改善要怎麼我們"},{"start":334.248,"end":348.485,"text":"會協助他改善從專業來協助他這幾年我們事實上也看到了一些成果原來譬如說去年被列為前十大前三名的今年看起來因為改善以後他就沒有了我想這個部分會後我再"},{"start":348.965,"end":377.766,"text":"把這個資料給委員我們更正向的 積極的去協助學校人我希望這個數字能夠減少嘛但是就是說剛剛部長所提到的應該就是一些譬如說硬體設備的一些改善道路的一些 死角的一些改善當然他學校也應該要正視這個學生的行業安全嘛許多的宣導等等的那現在我也希望說交通部能夠介入在處理這部分因為現在學校的這個道路不是一般道路啊是"},{"start":378.386,"end":394.618,"text":"對啊就變成說很多屬於這個道教的處罰條例裡面好像沒辦法處罰到這個校園裡面的這個大學其實校園是開放的所以社區民眾或者很多人的進出我想這個部分我們來看你們再跟交通部來"},{"start":395.559,"end":415.411,"text":"來怎麼樣來合作來合作怎麼讓公權力可以介入因為現在都是按照各個學校自己去處理那就是說一般道路所適用的規範那是不是在我們校園的道路因為有些校園真的很大是不是能夠一體適用這方面是不是請教育部來跟教工部來做一個協調一下謝謝委員提醒謝謝李坤"}]}},{"id":"168184","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168184","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c756dbac68168f6e9bd67b93b5004dc02d517ee29457ab42d4bd0c126c431d72f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:53:35 - 10:06:03","影片長度":"00:12:28","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T09:53:35+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T10:06:03+08:00","duration":748,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.0222187500000004,"end":3.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.26659375,"end":5.042843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.0553437500000005,"end":6.4772187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.320343750000003,"end":11.759093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.759093750000002,"end":11.809718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.94471875,"end":70.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.46284375,"end":78.80346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.29284375,"end":84.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.96284375,"end":86.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.48159375,"end":91.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.86909375,"end":191.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.42721875,"end":223.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.57409375,"end":226.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.97909375,"end":224.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.40471875,"end":231.33659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.97409375,"end":230.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.77971875,"end":234.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.26471875000001,"end":236.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.50034375,"end":238.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.56346875000003,"end":238.01909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.35659375,"end":254.05034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.59909375,"end":256.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.85596875000002,"end":256.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.00346875,"end":258.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.84284375000004,"end":260.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.87221875,"end":262.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.96034375,"end":264.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.00221875,"end":268.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.23846875000004,"end":270.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.76096875,"end":276.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.44784375,"end":278.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.18596875000003,"end":284.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.98659375,"end":305.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.94096875,"end":312.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.49721875,"end":311.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.31971875,"end":313.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.34909375,"end":317.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.39096875,"end":323.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.86284375,"end":325.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.65096875,"end":371.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.34409375,"end":373.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.16659375,"end":380.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.22034375000004,"end":385.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.29159375,"end":388.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.15596875,"end":391.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.26096875,"end":398.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.66096875000005,"end":408.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.78159375,"end":411.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.38909375000003,"end":408.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.62909375000004,"end":411.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.76409375000003,"end":419.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.96659375,"end":412.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.08784375000005,"end":466.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.86409375000005,"end":419.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.65909375,"end":437.09346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.14784375000005,"end":476.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.93534375,"end":564.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.44909375,"end":574.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.1997187500001,"end":568.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.72596875,"end":577.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":577.83096875,"end":579.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.9909687500001,"end":582.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.6909687500001,"end":583.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.6865937499999,"end":597.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.20346875,"end":602.6203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.25409375,"end":597.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.4897187500001,"end":604.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.00409375,"end":609.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.4597187500001,"end":604.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.8772187500001,"end":606.3328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":606.65346875,"end":606.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":607.93596875,"end":611.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":612.0534687500001,"end":621.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.74846875,"end":640.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.50971875,"end":636.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.45034375,"end":655.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.7978437500001,"end":674.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.03409375,"end":655.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":673.8159687500001,"end":687.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.7253437500001,"end":724.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":687.8559687500001,"end":688.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.3103437500001,"end":724.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":725.20034375,"end":726.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":726.9553437500001,"end":728.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.59659375,"end":731.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":730.12784375,"end":731.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":731.51159375,"end":733.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.34659375,"end":738.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":737.55284375,"end":740.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":741.3159687500001,"end":744.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":744.18471875,"end":745.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.9778437500001,"end":745.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.2434687500001,"end":748.0828437499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.051,"end":27.35,"text":"谢谢召唤我们请部长请部长谢谢部长好我想今天从刚刚到现在到等一下都有很多人关切我们老师的这个环境的问题你知道学生的管教越来越严重那我想很多的家长跟学校其实都有点束手无策像之前就有一个11"},{"start":27.91,"end":52.752,"text":"一岁的时候还飙车还压车过关哇塞过弯了这个父母亲都不知道该怎么管而且呢现在没有宗措但是常常请假这是校园里面常常发生的一些的状况显然这个学校也是不太有办法来做处理那部长你可以知道从2012年开始有关师生的问题冲突的问题那个时候呢大概每年平均只有300多件"},{"start":53.933,"end":70.749,"text":"但2019的时候呢已经到500多件到了2023已经到771件而且这还有很多的黑数所以说呢这个师生关系紧张学生不断的用网络上网去po跟老师进行冲突面对这样的状况部长你有任何的对策吗"},{"start":72.354,"end":83.931,"text":"謝謝委員關心青少年一個發展確實在情緒上的一個教育情緒的一個管理人際之間的一個互動溝通我們從去年暑假開始跟委員報告"},{"start":85.194,"end":103.067,"text":"國教署我已經要他們開始推動這一個屬性就是培養同理心部長我知道同理心我們從以前就培養到現在你會發現現在的孩子跟老師越來越沒有同學部長因為招委給我們的時間太短今天是夜報應該給我們更多的時間那你看我還是給你看一個數據"},{"start":104.068,"end":128.1,"text":"为什么我要拿这个当例子就是目前来说老师感受到整个教学环境让他们倍感挫折你可以看出来当初部长我们都是学教育心理学的我们都施施培育过当初我们培养的学生这个施培出来他们为了要考上教真教解他们花了多好时间然后考上之后欣喜若狂然后就到学校去任教这是我们所知道的教育的正常但是你看现在你看这个比率"},{"start":128.78,"end":154.025,"text":"目前来说呢新手老师的任教比例越来越低了你知道吗取得教师证跟正式代理的比例大概只有57.4你再看下面这个数字就成了我刚刚所说的当身为一个师资培育的老师我们目前为止大概有23万个是具有教师证的一个资格但是呢投入整个的教职的工作大概只有13万也就是说有三分之一合格老师是不进校园的"},{"start":154.705,"end":174.611,"text":"而且任教十年的变化里面呢从70%到60%而且呢这个整个心血投入下降所以你不可否认就是整个的环境真的是让老师觉得倍感挫折这边可以给部长看到吗不同的团体做出不同的这样的比例图但是呢青师生三片面的共同困难"},{"start":175.151,"end":190.661,"text":"校园文化的管理问题缺乏成就感 质押疲乏还有缺乏专业制度再加上校士会的整个那个烂数所以说呢一些老师就告诉你我不是不爱孩子啊我是这个制度没有办法让我爱下去啊所以你看这个比率"},{"start":191.542,"end":209.803,"text":"当初考上学校包括你自己从师专毕业你那时候是琢磨以当老师为荣结果你看现在你可以想象到目前为止你当教育部长的当下你看看连公费生也宁可赔钱也要离职就表示这个环境已经让他没有办法带下去了所以我们归纳结果是怎么样呢下面一页"},{"start":210.504,"end":226.025,"text":"就是整个的结构的问题师资人力不稳校园冲突增加亲事关系简单烂速明白身为部长同样是一个教师专业出来一路过来的你应该很有感吧部长怎么办你不要告诉我怎么同理心那不好了"},{"start":227.435,"end":246.662,"text":"委員這太重要了你也知道同理心很重要但是你先告訴我老師的問題老師問題怎麼解決我跟委員關係的都一樣我們都非常在意是來怎麼解決那我也有一個數據可能這一個跟委員update一下我們現在近五年拿到教師證的有八成的"},{"start":248.263,"end":261.684,"text":"教室這個年輕老師他們還是到中小學教育現場停留多久 三年 停留三年以上的比例多少比例多少 告訴我我要跟委員報告是代理代課呢 還是正式老師"},{"start":263.539,"end":281.976,"text":"正式老师拿到教师证进出带领带开正式老师停留三年以上有多少同意委员有许多的现象我们怎么样提供更友善的校园环境怎么友善部长怎么友善我们一直在努力就像委员也支持学生胡道华"},{"start":285.56,"end":305.338,"text":"你不抢还好,学生服务长先谈这个问题,学生服务长彭书长也在我后面,我真的要特别问一下,你上次告诉我的有关于新的编制准则,我们好不容易过去了,编制编制准则你告诉我你已经公告了,有吗?我点进去看,112年你还是用旧的法再来做这样的事情。"},{"start":305.999,"end":308.062,"text":"包委員 我們那時候跟您報告的是現行的相關作法都已經到我們的計畫內會增加600位包委員 會增加600位老師跟"},{"start":323.422,"end":350.472,"text":"192位专政人员这个都跟委员报告过不是你告诉我你的网站上面你的新的编制准则你还是照旧法来往下面看更不要想说我们好不容易进去了部长你这个部分里面还包括我们的老师这个很多的老师就特别提到了他们这个已经的人力已经非常的缺乏然后呢也很多老师特别提到了目前来说他们没有办法像一般老师一样可以按节次来去做这样的一个增补"},{"start":351.152,"end":370.92,"text":"那这些都是一个很大的问题啊我们下面的这样的一个部分好我先回到刚刚我还真的还没有讲完所以部长你跟我说我支持学生辅导法是但是很多的配套你完全没有update跟上来所以根据刚刚我们所提到那么多的教师的觉得校园不友善的问题你真正的对策到底在哪里"},{"start":372.561,"end":390.59,"text":"對策在哪裡嗎 根據這個我想譬如說施施的不穩定我們看到了STEM或者偏鄉離島我們開始增加了一個原住民的專班我們對STEM這個我肯定你能努力但是你這些問題還是沒有不足以我們對偏鄉的代理代課老師他沒有辦法"},{"start":391.63,"end":408.126,"text":"因為他對教育是有熱忱的所以我們改變了用線上來上課部長我再跟你加雞同鴨講這個部分我剛才說我肯定你的做法對於偏鄉但是對於線上不是偏鄉的這些老師的人力不穩校園衝突校園爛樹我們也感謝委員的支持我們現在事實上"},{"start":411.309,"end":433.511,"text":"所以你们的投诉也把它拿掉了我想有一些东西教育这个东西不是一夜之间就能够看到效果我当然知道教育不是一夜之间但是教育的很多的问题我们到目前为止同样讨论的都是这些表示很多的做法目前为止还是没有办法解决这是我所提出来的"},{"start":433.911,"end":460.405,"text":"部长因为时间有限我请你把这样的部分给我一份报告来告诉我你针对我所提出这四大项你做的策略到底是什么可以吗因为我们时间没有办法在这个地方对不起给我一分钟的时间我还是要问到这个有关于这个我们上次已经我们的召委在这个地方已经排定了这样子的一个问题但是很显然没有办法解决原因很简单你知道目前为止来说我们往下看"},{"start":462.566,"end":488.513,"text":"这是一个学生在我们上一次的讨论完之后他亲手写信给我的学生给我写的他就是我把他的名字弄掉啊他是说告诉我们目前他们这些的剥削一直存在然后你们告诉大家查到的这个所谓违反的这个违规没有所以让这些学生觉得非常的愤怒他们写信告诉我剥削一直存在因为呢你们教育部的规定让很多事情合法化"},{"start":488.953,"end":506.598,"text":"举例来说他们现在非常痛苦的是四二一四天实习两天读书一天休息那时候教育部本来非常好的也可以告诉我们就说你有个公约有一个合约就是说你用赋月薪的方法教育部本来本意很良善"},{"start":507.378,"end":535.456,"text":"但是呢因为复月薪的方法这些很多的地方就是让他一个礼拜可以工作40小时可是他只有4天可以工作所以要求他们一天工作10小时一天工作10小时而且呢他们工作10小时的时候呢有很多你们当初我们被揪举的新南向国际专班因为你们特别要求特别保护所以呢他们可以收时薪而且每天不能超过8小时"},{"start":535.976,"end":563.854,"text":"反而是這些僑生他們每天被要求工作超過一天超過十小時的這樣子的血汗所以他們告訴大家他們真的是很累了他們想來這邊學習但是呢他們被要求的沒有辦法所以好像就是一個來這邊留學可是被當作勞工來做看待那這樣子的一個合法化你怎麼來做這個解決這是存在的事實不要告訴我們你們超乎違法沒有這種事超乎違法就不會有一群學生來這邊"},{"start":564.514,"end":582.836,"text":"我想我的心情這樣一個案例的控訴我的心情跟委員是一樣的我一定會嚴格來查只要查到我事實上跟委員報告我在去年跟32所的技高學校的所有的董事校長"},{"start":583.777,"end":611.115,"text":"我直接感謝我們彭署長的邀請在南東我特別舉了因為我不希望台灣是一個剝削天堂我希望台灣有更多的國際派是以後培養出更多的靈體但是你現在的政策我相信這是一個理想因為這個東西來說的話我們現在也開始不定期的對不要預告不預告不定期的去做你不要有事情你才去做我們也去查到了一個即將要"},{"start":612.336,"end":640.719,"text":"這一個退場的一個學校就是說我要談的是說許多的東西我們逐步來做我的心情是跟我一樣的部長我從2016年當立委到這邊所有的部長在那執行台上面都告訴我教育不是一觸之間就可以完成我們都逐步來做換到2026了10年了還在逐步來做你會知道讓我們所有的老師還有讓我們很多的學生都非常的覺得希望教育部能夠主動做一些的事情我怎麼說"},{"start":642.04,"end":670.414,"text":"我說如果你們沒有辦法按照法定的規定來辦我會把這個班關掉第二個如果你學校連在地的本國生都沒有認真的把他辦學你們學校我也會把你關掉是所以說我現在已經呈現出這樣的一個狀況421請不要讓這些學生永遠要透過跟立法委員這樣子的告知然後才有辦法發現這些事實我只能告訴你每一次我們做出任何的事情然後你們去查都說查無違法"},{"start":671.335,"end":685.77,"text":"這種的狀況真的會讓很多受害的學生我們現在有不定期的我們我的這個專門委員都親自下去現場去看我想這個我們來努力但也許一時間沒有辦法立即改善但是"},{"start":686.631,"end":714.202,"text":"我现在最后只是祈求部长你真的也是教育出身的老师的环境越来越恶劣你不能否认有更多更多的老师不愿意投注在这个地方有更多的老师很希望他的热情能够被我们的教育部可以接触然后呢我们有很多的学生在这个过程里面桥外学生也很想来台湾学习不要因为我们的法治我们的一些制度还有我们一些想贪小便宜因为找移工找学工远比找那些"},{"start":714.682,"end":726.265,"text":"所謂的移工來得更且省錢我不希望我們的台灣教育變成是如此這個是你跟我共同期望你現在握有權力你應該更知道如何能夠來做這樣的一個部分留在這裡的原因"},{"start":727.416,"end":728.437,"text":"謝謝委員我現在的眼睛會越來越多了謝謝委員謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"168183","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168183","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106ca8bb81b7cf02698b7570c8d4d2e9dc78d517ee29457ab42dc243b8408b1a723d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"13:37:08 - 13:51:03","影片長度":"00:13:55","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:37:08+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:51:03+08:00","duration":835,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.476593750000003,"end":25.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.99471875,"end":16.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.91721875,"end":27.402218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.794093750000002,"end":31.739093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.840343750000002,"end":49.643468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.91346875,"end":55.29659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.48221875,"end":66.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.49721875,"end":77.06534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.75721875,"end":108.28409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.04346875,"end":152.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.96909375,"end":165.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.16971875000002,"end":175.31159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.58159375000002,"end":178.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.51784375,"end":193.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.19471875000002,"end":204.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.12971875000002,"end":275.71784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.25784375,"end":279.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.66659375,"end":353.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.11909375000005,"end":360.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.73409375,"end":360.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.76784375,"end":361.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.83534375000005,"end":360.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.10534375000003,"end":411.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.47721875,"end":461.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.50721875000005,"end":462.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.45221875000004,"end":480.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.00221875000005,"end":512.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.60909375,"end":544.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.5659687500001,"end":554.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.1003437500001,"end":556.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.5515937499999,"end":587.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.1584687500001,"end":654.1397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.29159375,"end":689.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.8134687500001,"end":699.1115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.34784375,"end":704.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.2878437500001,"end":751.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":752.20034375,"end":767.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.19784375,"end":773.9184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":774.3740937500002,"end":781.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":781.6809687500001,"end":828.7959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":828.99846875,"end":832.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":831.7490937500002,"end":831.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":832.9809687500001,"end":833.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":833.16659375,"end":834.90471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.193,"end":25.431,"text":"好 謝謝主席謝謝主席今天排了這麼豐富這麼多元的主題謝謝大家可以來針對必要的主題做更多的質詢那小武部長已經不在現場我們就麻煩次長好 我請次長是"},{"start":31.039,"end":53.599,"text":"請委員保重是 謝謝市長的問候還有關心我想針對今天開放外籍邦傭就是外籍家事移工的部分很多委員也都有很多相關的意見基本上其實都是針對我國應該要改善育兒環境的期待希望能夠讓他做得更好也讓我們這些年輕的勞工朋友們"},{"start":54.199,"end":64.998,"text":"在他照顧育兒同時呢都能夠有更好的資源來協助他們來把事情做好所以今天還是想要針對整體育兒政策的強化來跟市長這邊做個討論"},{"start":67.686,"end":94.102,"text":"第一個部分就是有關於育兒彈性配套擴大領到6歲這一部分首先 要先肯定勞動部在推動育嬰留庭彈性化這邊的努力這個努力經過今年2月開始推動這個新制以來根據貴部的統計不管是在申請的數量或者是在促進育兒性平的部分"},{"start":94.642,"end":113.699,"text":"看起來都進步非常的多大家也都感同身受知道這樣的政策是對我們這些民眾有非常大的幫忙也是因為這樣成效非常不錯所以大家也會期待現在0到3歲的這個育兒友善措施能不能夠擴大從變成0到6歲"},{"start":117.262,"end":138.088,"text":"那其實不管是今天早上很多委員或者是甚至在總諮詢的時候劉建國委員也有跟我們院長還有跟部長共同來質詢過類似的問題那個時候洪部長也有在說他會研議看來有沒有機會在下半年能夠提出這個修法的版本就是針對0到6歲的這個延長的部分"},{"start":141.81,"end":164.589,"text":"除了委員很關心以外其實我們很多的民團也都曾經表達類似的訴求就是希望這些育兒友善的措施能夠再開放他這個年齡這個大家共同期待主要原因是因為三歲以上到六歲甚至小學的低年級其實這個需求都還是明顯的存在"},{"start":165.35,"end":193.215,"text":"如果我們要落實這個雙就業還有雙照顧的這樣的政策那就是要讓雙薪家庭的父母都能夠兼顧到工作與育兒照顧所以三歲以上的托育服務機構依照現況常常尤其是在不同的季節會因為腸病毒或流感等等的情況而有需要停班停課的情形之下這些的家長需要用額外的時間來做接送這是普遍的存在"},{"start":194.315,"end":213.947,"text":"所以我相信民間團體這樣的訴求跟委員或者是大家社會的期待是相當一致的所以在這邊就有希望勞動部在研議修法的時候能夠一併跟下列的三個部分來做研議的對象第一個就是有關的"},{"start":215.107,"end":238.279,"text":"這個性別平等工作法第16條可以來申請這個育嬰留停的年齡從0到3歲變成0到6歲那第二部分就是就業保險法第11條跟第19條之二有關於這個育嬰留職停薪期間的這個津貼的額度算是還有這個裁員也一併來考量"},{"start":239.54,"end":254.551,"text":"第三個就是有關於性別平等工作法第19條30人以上的失業單位工時來縮減或者是調整的制度那這三個法我們其實辦公室也都有提出了相關的法案的修正內容那如果說下半年能夠"},{"start":255.732,"end":277.892,"text":"讓這個修法有順利來推動的話那我們希望在未來三個月的時間裡面能不能夠針對這個擴大育兒友善措施的年齡延伸到六歲的演繹的結果能夠提供給委員會做一個參考那這邊不知道次長有沒有相關的一些想法是跟委員報告就是"},{"start":279.878,"end":308.751,"text":"國家在面對整體的人口結構的變化還有友善家庭甚至於職場的部分各部位都有完整的分工那在勞動部的部分主要是雙就業雙照顧這一塊那有一部分需要短期脫離職場在育嬰留庭的部分我們要讓他能夠回復到職場來也讓他的育嬰留庭可以比較容易去申請所以我們就會擴大到按日然後有一部分是屬於家庭照顧的部分我們擴大到按時"},{"start":309.611,"end":324.609,"text":"那有一些是屬於彈性工作時間的安排我們也在積極推出當中所以有關性別工作平等法在相應的部分委員所指教的包括育嬰留庭是不是可以從三歲放寬到六歲以上或者是說"},{"start":325.449,"end":353.699,"text":"就業保險法裡面這一邊原來我們透過公務預算加給兩成的部分算是裁員各方面還有30人以上的調整工時縮減的這些相應的制度我們洪部長有特別在大院答詢的時候有說我們會在今年下半年並同的整體來做一個考量看可不可以在下半年有一個比較好的完整的想法所以委員所指教的這幾個部分我們都會審慎的來納入思考案原意"},{"start":354.121,"end":382.584,"text":"好那就像這個原意的這個成果報告也可以先在三個月提供給我們做參考是是好謝謝那再過來就是有關於日本育兒友善措施的彈性化日本跟我們面臨的困境其實是非常類似就是他們的勞動力也不足那少子化也非常的嚴重我們可以看到日本的育兒介護修業法他們在2024年也做一個很完整的修法"},{"start":383.064,"end":410.543,"text":"那這些修法後來在2025年的4月1日還有2025年的10月1號開始分別這個實施上路那這個內容呢就會包括涉及適用年齡的擴大申請室友的放寬還有育兒方案的彈性選項等等這邊我們可以看到的就是有關於在4月1號開始實施的部分他們"},{"start":411.744,"end":433.078,"text":"修法的內容裡面在事業要商路的部分就是將這個室友擴大到傳染病導致的停班停課這就是我們目前也希望能夠針對這個部分也把他納進來那他們還包括像入學或者是在畢業典禮上面也都讓這些家長們是當作一個試駕的一個室友"},{"start":435.299,"end":460.42,"text":"另外他們的這個申請範圍也從就學前擴大到小學三年級主要是因為他們是小學一二三年級還是上半天的課上家長有更方便那我們這次是期待先放到六歲未來是不是能夠適度的再放寬我們是可以再參考的那在十月一號開始實施的部分他們更特別的就是針對於"},{"start":463.522,"end":488.947,"text":"在要求僱主的部分是有更好的一個方做法他們的做法就是希望說能夠有設定一個五項的一個必要的措施讓這些需要來做相對來做處理的部分能夠有所選擇那我把他們的這個五項的措施提供給這個次長來做參考"},{"start":491.548,"end":509.963,"text":"他們就是針對於在子女三歲到小學之前雇主可以提供五項的育兒的措施其中有兩項是可以提供給員工來做參考員工再從其中裡面折翼來利用這個五項這麼有彈性的內容"},{"start":512.745,"end":537.302,"text":"雇主的義務第一個就是變更這個死夜的時間就是包括彈性工時跟實差的出勤第二個就是遠距辦公可以每個月有10天以上第三項就是設置或者是營運的托育設施第四項就是養育兩立資源的休假就是每年有10天以上做選擇第五項就是短時間的勤務制度"},{"start":538.443,"end":555.677,"text":"就是僱主必須要從這個法定的五項裡面呢他們選擇兩項以上來實施那從裡面再讓勞工可以選擇一項來利用那這個過程當然他們有義務需要跟這個勞工做一個互動"},{"start":556.658,"end":571.653,"text":"做一個關懷讓人在選擇的時候更知道為什麼他要做這樣的選擇那他們也非常鼓勵但不是強制說一定要遠距辦公這樣的需求那我相信這樣日本的修法當有他們當地的條件"},{"start":573.835,"end":588.372,"text":"可是也應該可以當為我們台灣在修法的時候一個重要的參考那不知道市長對這樣的日本的做法有沒有一些想法或者是想要做哪一部分的一些處理是"},{"start":589.232,"end":605.721,"text":"他三四十當然可以公錯不過兩國的法治環境沒有很完全一樣即使是這樣子我相信各國的做法都是相對類似的有關於譬如說有關於上下班時間的相對彈性化在我們性別工作平等法已經有一些範定"},{"start":606.761,"end":629.682,"text":"那或者是說遠距辦公其實勞動部也推出了相關的指引在鼓勵雇主和勞工可以來適用這個部分尤其在COVID之後確實也是一個趨勢那至於托兒或者是照相關的措施這邊在我們的法律上也是要求一定層級以上的雇主需要去"},{"start":630.382,"end":653.42,"text":"去提供相應的措施的所以有關於日本的相關的法制我們會參考委員的建議去實際的蒐集案了解那在我們整體的相應的評估的部分再來做一些考量看什麼樣子可以讓我們的工作的家庭裡面父母親在育兒方面可以得到更多的資產照顧"},{"start":654.641,"end":680.847,"text":"那是不是也請勞動部能夠研議這個日本知識修法相關的制度適合我國參考實施的部分能夠研議給我們一份報告也希望三個月能夠完成那最後一個比較相關的性工法公佈資料應該可以更明確的部分我們知道性別工作平等法在促進工作平等措施的立法結構上面有這三條"},{"start":682.007,"end":703.844,"text":"比較大家可以參考就是性供法第14條到第20條裡面就是針對生理假、育嬰、留庭假或者是家庭照顧假、產假、陪產假等等做一個相關的規定那第21條就是勞工在請求這前面7條不得拒絕或不利益的對待那如果在"},{"start":705.645,"end":731.042,"text":"違反到21條的話 那在新公法第38條就會有處罰2到30萬那同時要公布這些違法的僱主的資料這是我們可以看到的相關的這個立法架構跟結構那可是我們在勞動部目前的公布網站上面呢會根據不同的縣市他們所公布出來的資料 其實是不是那麼樣的統一"},{"start":732.463,"end":748.725,"text":"原來有一些縣市就會根據前面第14條到24條他們違反了哪一些的內容那做了什麼樣的懲處公布相對仔細那有一些縣市呢他就是針對於說他違反了第21條所以用38條來處分"},{"start":750.667,"end":773.219,"text":"結果我們在做相關的這些處理的內容的時候事實上是會有造成的落差基本上我們要在統計或者是想要掌握狀況那對民眾來講這個資料的透明度也相對是不夠完整所以可不可以麻煩部理能夠針對如何去公告公布能夠跟地方主管機關"},{"start":774.44,"end":796.432,"text":"一起來討論把它一個比較明確的一個做法讓大家都可以有所了解有所掌握好謝謝委員的指教因為相關的法令對違反的情節要求行政部門要予以公佈上網公開其實落實法尊的一個重要的環節那我們勞動部跟地方政府"},{"start":797.092,"end":826.15,"text":"過去在這一邊包括其他相關的法令的規範我們都有持續在檢討也在其一相應的標準包括上網的時間然後應該上網的內容和方式那委員所提到的這部分我們一方面已經請我們的業管單位跟該管的地方政府在做協調另外一方面我們也會再重新整個去審視我們的上網公告的相應的部分有沒有可以再進一步檢討精進還有跟地方政府再把那個基準"},{"start":826.61,"end":831.185,"text":"化的更奇異的部分謝謝委員的指教好那就請市長繼續努力謝謝謝謝王振旭委員的發言"}]}},{"id":"168182","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168182","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c16fe5370e9834b337570c8d4d2e9dc78b88717e2a81a321e2a1e36cdd7c250075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊曜","委員發言時間":"14:41:48 - 14:51:49","影片長度":"00:10:01","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T14:41:48+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T14:51:49+08:00","duration":601,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.920343750000001,"end":6.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.422218750000001,"end":9.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.700343750000002,"end":9.953468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.953468750000003,"end":10.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.93221875,"end":12.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.15534375,"end":14.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.965343750000002,"end":16.011593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.024093750000002,"end":18.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.52596875,"end":42.049718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.50284375,"end":31.570343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.50534375,"end":45.188468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.728468750000005,"end":55.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.87034375,"end":64.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.21909375,"end":67.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.88534375,"end":76.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.95534375000001,"end":79.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.45284375,"end":85.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.17784375000001,"end":114.17346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.34659375000001,"end":113.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.46034375,"end":121.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.53596875000001,"end":117.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.66159375000001,"end":134.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.06659375000001,"end":123.43784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.44034375,"end":150.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.65721875,"end":153.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.18409375000002,"end":158.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.13221875000002,"end":162.99284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.42284375,"end":165.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.46909375,"end":179.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.29534375,"end":172.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.77909375000002,"end":188.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.36846875,"end":190.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.51971875,"end":194.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.17346875,"end":196.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.72159375,"end":198.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.42596875,"end":202.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.74659375000002,"end":200.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.63221875000002,"end":211.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.88034375,"end":208.15034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.73659375000003,"end":224.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.50659375,"end":225.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.49784375000002,"end":239.70659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.56534375,"end":226.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.66471875000002,"end":238.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.21721875000003,"end":243.45284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.80721875,"end":259.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.31096875000003,"end":272.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.38909375000003,"end":276.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.05096875000004,"end":277.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.49784375,"end":281.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.01221875000005,"end":283.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.26096875,"end":286.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.76221875000005,"end":290.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.51284375,"end":297.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.92534375,"end":304.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.67096875000004,"end":307.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.33721875000003,"end":309.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.34534375000004,"end":313.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.53471875,"end":316.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.71971875,"end":320.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.44909375000003,"end":327.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.35096875000005,"end":330.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.64596875,"end":332.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.02534375000005,"end":333.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.30784375,"end":335.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.79284375000003,"end":339.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.31534375,"end":340.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.80034375,"end":342.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.77471875000003,"end":347.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.72346875,"end":351.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.75221875,"end":353.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.13596875,"end":357.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.54471875,"end":357.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.74721875,"end":360.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.05471875,"end":362.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.48909375,"end":417.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.77096875,"end":368.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.94034375,"end":437.93721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.24096875000004,"end":439.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.37596875,"end":438.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.47721875,"end":438.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.62471875000006,"end":465.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.12284375,"end":465.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.17346875000004,"end":465.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.25784375,"end":465.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.29159375,"end":465.39284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.39284375000005,"end":465.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.91596875000005,"end":466.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.11846875000003,"end":466.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.28721875,"end":467.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.02971875000003,"end":468.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.26159375000003,"end":468.27846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.61596875000004,"end":486.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.81346875,"end":474.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.41471875,"end":488.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.44409375000004,"end":490.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.00096875,"end":493.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.75971875000005,"end":495.16034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.06346875,"end":495.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.53159375,"end":495.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.64971875000003,"end":509.68971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.93471875000006,"end":511.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.12409375000004,"end":531.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.71471875000003,"end":511.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.70284375,"end":541.9209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.4440937500001,"end":547.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.9622187500001,"end":582.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.9440937500001,"end":585.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.15909375,"end":584.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.59346875,"end":594.2334687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.50034375,"end":588.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.52534375,"end":589.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.3303437500001,"end":597.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.11909375,"end":598.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.17346875,"end":600.35909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.162,"end":29.972,"text":"謝謝主席主席請一下勞動部次長吧請陳次長楊委員好次長好是次長我先前就已經有初步跟洪部長討論過有關降低家有幼童可聘僱外籍幫傭資格限制的鬆綁的問題"},{"start":33.273,"end":54.118,"text":"接下來也繼續跟你做相關的探討我們從去年8月份開始實施放寬80歲以上免82票就可以聘僱外籍看護移工即將上路的政策是降低家有幼童也可以聘僱外籍幫傭的資格"},{"start":56.158,"end":76.168,"text":"那社會各界大概最有疑慮的就是會不會有移工挑工作的狀況那先請教次長從先前我們放寬80歲以上免80樣表以後看護移工的勞動市場有沒有產生移工挑工作的狀況"},{"start":86.583,"end":113.788,"text":"這部分我們當然持續在做密切的注意我們也做一些相應的處理那其實移工最重要的問題是在他的勞動條件如何可以適度的去做提升至於去年80歲以上免評的情況出現那個大院通過之後我們在輕重的部分做了一些分流那重症的家庭基本上面我們都讓他一天之內就可以完成相應的審查一天啊"},{"start":114.548,"end":116.89,"text":"我們在國內推介都會一天就完成審查"},{"start":123.208,"end":148.841,"text":"我們審查的部分所以我們盡量在這樣一個政策放寬的情況底下不要影響到重症家庭的需求其實當初就是要80歲以上免巴士量表可以聘戶移工大家最大的疑慮就是這個政策也已經上路半年多了也就是說次長現在覺得並沒有"},{"start":150.922,"end":179.267,"text":"並沒有產生移工挑工作我們會盡量降低這樣一個可能的發生你們怎麼降低第一個部分當然是我們在重症家庭會優先然後第二個部分就是說在國內如果移工要轉換雇主的時候我們在優先排序上面還是會以重症家庭優先"},{"start":181.632,"end":193.788,"text":"那次長你們有沒有掌握到移工到了重症家庭可以工作多久?有沒有這個數據?"},{"start":199.948,"end":223.962,"text":"因為我們要觀察一個政策必須要從多面向去做觀察那剛剛剛好次長就回答到讓我想到這一點我們是不是應該要去我們回過頭再去看相關的資料因為移工基本上面我們在在聘僱是一次三年嘛那到底三年期滿的比例有多少有沒有辦法期滿"},{"start":225.863,"end":242.4,"text":"期滿中間如果沒有期滿就轉出是因為看護的長者不幸往生還是有其他的相關的問題我們可以再做資料上的大數案對這個我們假如說要真的很嚴肅面對"},{"start":243.982,"end":258.078,"text":"有沒有移工、挑工作的狀況產生必須要去研究他未滿三年就離職的實際原因我們才能夠做政策的調整好不好所以我在這邊"},{"start":260.41,"end":286.411,"text":"提出一些問題你們假如說在這裡沒有答的很完整我基本上不大會為難你們可是你們回去真的必須要把它當作一個問題來認真面對好不好那現在我還是要提醒勞動部缺工是全球性的所以呢大概全球也就掀起了搶人大戰"},{"start":288.8,"end":312.219,"text":"有媒體報導就是日本跟韓國併顧外籍移工其實在相關的配套利多政策的配套部分不管是薪資或者是取得永居的限制都優於台灣那會不會台灣這幾年之所以不缺工是因為台灣這幾年台幣相較於日幣韓元是強勢的"},{"start":318.216,"end":337.971,"text":"我大概一個數據提供給次長相對疫情爆發的時候台幣對韓元的漲幅將近三成對日幣的漲幅大概38%可是呢所以也因為台幣強勢所以台灣"},{"start":343.8,"end":361.82,"text":"目前在招工比較沒有那麼困難可是匯率是變動的假如匯率有翻轉勞動部有沒有什麼比較長遠一點的政策對於吸引移工的部分"},{"start":364.121,"end":384.432,"text":"就移工的部分確實陳主委員所說全世界都在搶人日韓跟我們也都在競逐當中移工會選擇日韓或選擇台灣當然經濟因素是一個其他的因素也都有這部分會整體的來看以台灣目前來看我們對於這樣一個情況大概做幾件事"},{"start":384.892,"end":407.395,"text":"第一個就是說持續提升相關的勞動條件然後第二個部分是去擴大來源國還有持續去優化國內雇主在人才移工招募的一些相應的過程那第三個就是讓外國的移工朋友進來台灣的時候得到比較友善的對待讓他的勞動條件可以比較"},{"start":408.415,"end":422.76,"text":"比較可以得到適度的保障那這部分我們持續的跟來源國的政府都還有一直持續在精進相應的作為剛剛次長講的就是有一些必須要雇主配合有一些必須要來源國"},{"start":424.06,"end":439.293,"text":"現在現有的勞動力輸出國來做協商那有關擴大來源國的部分這個就是全部主動權都在勞動部這裡你們現在方向是怎麼樣接觸了多少國家"},{"start":439.713,"end":467.984,"text":"跟委員報告就是第一個部分我們在原來的移工來源國除了最早的移工之外我們現在在處理跨國技術人力的部分那跟幾個來源國都持續的在洽談當中也得到積極正面的回應那我們在菲律賓已經今年1月份去設了勞工組那目前正在處理相應的事務那第二個就是說去菲律賓設的是不是就是跨國勞動力延展中心"},{"start":468.864,"end":486.809,"text":"跨國勞動力延攬中心是在台北這邊的專案辦公室在那邊我們是在我們駐馬尼拉經濟文化辦事處裡面在我們的外交處裡面專設一個勞工組我們有派駐人員現在在那邊積極協調相應的事情"},{"start":490.812,"end":508.907,"text":"可是菲律賓本來就是我們的來源國原來是只有移工我們現在要擴大輸入相應的技術人力那第二個部分當然就是之前過去大家持續有在討論包括印度、柬埔寨我現在講的是這個部分"},{"start":511.409,"end":530.008,"text":"這些其實外管有一些持續的評估其實包括但不限於這幾個國家但是這東西因為必須要涉及到國對國的基本的一個談判的understanding所以如果有比較具體的進展會跟大院來報告像印度基本上過去就簽了MOU所以相應的部分在積極的接洽當中"},{"start":535.577,"end":544.108,"text":"時間也到了我向來不大喜歡佔用大家太多時間那相關的問題我們還是後續再來做討論不過"},{"start":548.015,"end":570.301,"text":"部裡面也知道全球都在搶人所以有關勞動力的輸入怎麼保障已經進來的移工可以有一個很好的工作條件跟環境怎麼向外在原有的輸出國"},{"start":572.621,"end":596.17,"text":"增加招募的能力也好或者是再找新的勞動力輸出國家也好這個是部裡面必須要趕快去做的好不好好 謝謝委員提醒我會朝這方向來努力好 謝謝次長 謝謝主席主席辛苦了好 謝謝楊耀偉委員質詢我是全院最後一個質詢的主席辛苦了好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168181","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168181","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c9367475f8e4670417570c8d4d2e9dc78b88717e2a81a321e6869bf68ab9a87a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"14:22:16 - 14:41:33","影片長度":"00:19:17","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T14:22:16+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T14:41:33+08:00","duration":1157,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.66284375,"end":10.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.286593750000002,"end":14.442218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.695343750000003,"end":18.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.43721875,"end":19.825343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.75784375,"end":22.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.90971875,"end":20.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.137218750000002,"end":23.132843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.06534375,"end":24.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.11159375,"end":28.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.38534375,"end":28.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.21221875,"end":28.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.22909375,"end":28.245968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.58346875,"end":28.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.87034375,"end":28.937843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.27534375,"end":128.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.97721875000002,"end":195.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.38159375,"end":132.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.96659375000002,"end":204.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.50096875000003,"end":234.34034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":214.64721875,"end":219.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.34034375000002,"end":292.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.03596875,"end":311.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.99971875,"end":308.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":311.99909375000004,"end":312.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.03284375000004,"end":315.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":312.28596875,"end":312.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.33659375,"end":312.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.13346875,"end":323.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":324.41909375,"end":325.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.00971875000005,"end":327.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":328.67159375,"end":353.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":353.03909375,"end":372.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.02346875,"end":383.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.79034375000003,"end":380.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.43096875000003,"end":402.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":400.54221875,"end":401.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":402.97221875,"end":416.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.96346875,"end":405.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.74346875000003,"end":409.77284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.97846875000005,"end":441.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.24846875000003,"end":417.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.31596875,"end":417.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.29096875000005,"end":443.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.97846875000005,"end":478.92659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":449.68221875,"end":450.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":479.77034375000005,"end":481.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.87534375,"end":500.79659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":486.94221875000005,"end":487.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":500.79659375000006,"end":540.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":540.0647187500001,"end":601.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":601.7934687500001,"end":629.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":629.43471875,"end":637.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.9734687499999,"end":692.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.47284375,"end":682.4897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":682.4897187500001,"end":682.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.9453437500001,"end":682.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":684.83534375,"end":685.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.2434687500001,"end":698.0990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.3859687500001,"end":700.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":701.01846875,"end":703.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":703.7859687499999,"end":707.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.93721875,"end":711.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.1897187500001,"end":721.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":721.0322187500001,"end":729.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":730.0603437500001,"end":743.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":743.59409375,"end":747.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":743.6784687500001,"end":743.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":748.42034375,"end":768.4678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":768.67034375,"end":777.7322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":779.1159687500001,"end":823.7334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":823.7334687500002,"end":828.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":828.12096875,"end":862.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":862.8159687500001,"end":877.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":877.0247187500001,"end":906.1003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":906.89346875,"end":907.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":907.9734687500002,"end":938.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":938.0278437500001,"end":947.0728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":946.4990937500002,"end":1005.8484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":963.3403437500001,"end":963.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1006.32096875,"end":1041.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1041.92721875,"end":1090.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1091.01659375,"end":1124.5809687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1124.9859687500002,"end":1127.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1127.97284375,"end":1128.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1128.85034375,"end":1128.9347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1128.9347187500002,"end":1139.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1139.81909375,"end":1142.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1140.37596875,"end":1140.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1142.02971875,"end":1151.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1151.8340937500002,"end":1152.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1153.87596875,"end":1156.2890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1156.96409375,"end":1157.40284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.667,"end":27.22,"text":"好謝謝文主席盧昭偉接下來本席這邊的一個質詢先請這個衛福部的次長還有我們現在勞動部也是次長陳次長陳次長在然後跟園民會的這個代表"},{"start":29.341,"end":37.673,"text":"好 那本席第一個部分先針對這個原住民健康不平等跟公安的問題來請幾個部會來做一個討論那麼根據內政部的統計花蓮縣原住民的人口達到了94924人"},{"start":44.702,"end":65.182,"text":"那麼佔全國原住民大概15%以上那也佔花蓮縣人口的三成以上那麼也算是全國非常具有代表性的原住民族的這個聚集區那人口基本上應該是成長的但是健康狀況沒有同步的改善那麼113年呢整個花蓮縣原住民標準化的死亡率達每10萬人1170.8"},{"start":67.845,"end":94.101,"text":"那麼也高於這個所有標準化的750.3那甚至全國排名的也是第二那僅次於本席的這個故鄉台東那代表這中間原住民族的健康不平等的問題是事實存在的而且花東地區呈現高度集中跟結構性的一個特徵那本席關注的這個部分是死因跟事故傷害的問題那看起來在這個區塊特別嚴重"},{"start":96.562,"end":122.94,"text":"那麼整個花蓮縣事故的死亡當中的死亡率也偏高那麼顯示原住民在工作跟生活的環境當中承擔不成比例的風險所以本席這邊先就叫勞動部那麼原住民在從事高風險工作的比例比較高那目前針對原住民族的一個職業安全的預防機制跟勞檢機制那是不是有針對族群的特性跟產業的分布來進行調整"},{"start":126.922,"end":152.444,"text":"是不是請勞動部這邊先回應我先跟委員做報告等一下再請我們治安署林署長做補充第一件事情就是說原住民朋友主要的集中的工作場域大概就是營造業製造業跟服務業那近年來就是服務業是大宗但是看起來相應的植栽的發生事故率還有致死率最高的其實還是在營造業那營造業因為他的產業特性"},{"start":153.284,"end":174.977,"text":"對這本席剛才有聽到幾位原住民的委員其實有提到這個區塊所以我跟委員報告當然我們做了幾件事第一個就是謝謝大院的支持我們在職安法修法的時候針對這樣一個多重轉包或分包如何去建立其他職安位的相關的督考底細我們做了處理那第二部分是我們也針對原鄉的部分有"},{"start":176.237,"end":204.697,"text":"原民的巡迴教室我們有在做相應的職業安全衛生甚至於勞保各方面的宣導那第三個部分我們對營造業也相對的有一些減災的計畫在執行那我想這是一般性的做法你們都有那對於原住民你們是以一般勞工來看待還是有族群的一個分布跟族群的特性跟產業的分布再去做一個更細部的處理呢"},{"start":206.058,"end":218.904,"text":"當然剛才跟回答鄭天才問也有同樣的質詢嘛就有關一般的營造業的部分我們確實是整個你們不要只談營造業啦剛才本席有談到原鄉原鄉的這部分有關原鄉產業的特性相應的部分那這部分我們會跟原民會一起來協助如果這需要有相應的方案來處理我們會請治安署"},{"start":234.35,"end":250.856,"text":"本席是希望這邊再更細緻一點剛才本席其實幾位原住民的委員在跟你們詢答的時候其實也有注意到這個區塊你們常常當然是本席的這個問題就是說你們是把它當一般勞工或者是整體性大概一致性的這樣一個看"},{"start":251.957,"end":269.637,"text":"看法可是剛才本席一進來其實就有先提到了區域的特殊性然後當然這個部分還會關係到產業的特性其實還有很多更細部的一個原因那本席這邊期待是說你們可以對細部的原因有更多的一個了解因為畢竟職災或勞工的區塊你們掌握都是相對比較高的"},{"start":270.478,"end":294.384,"text":"好 那麼當然待會兒我還可能再請你們做一個補充那接下來衛福部那本席在針對這個部分想要了解一下那我們整個原住民族的標準化的死亡率偏高那麼目前有沒有針對花東地區可以提出比較專案型的健康介入的一個措施那包括醫療的可請性跟事故以後的醫療資源配置那有沒有區域性的強化策略"},{"start":295.044,"end":323.147,"text":"OK 好 包委我們這邊還主要大概幾個部分一個當然就是說我們有一個就是花東基金那邊特別是有關於整個花東這邊的一個整個相關醫療量能的一個提高對本席這邊談到的醫療可靜性你們有沒有比較具體的一個措施醫療的可靜性跟事故以後的醫療資源的配置好 包委我們這邊大概幾個部分就是遠距醫療還有其實最重要事實上是醫事人力的一個提高"},{"start":325.081,"end":325.946,"text":"對沒錯我這邊是不是請我們我們副市長來跟"},{"start":328.697,"end":356.446,"text":"好 各位人報告 那目前針對尤其是花東地區 我們對衛生所我們有專科援軍醫療的一個機制現在幾乎每個衛生所都已經有設置了這是第一個 第二個我們對在地的醫事人力培育一直都有也就是說援助民屬於援助民的部分 我們在公費的培育我們有這個公費的制度我們剛才講的這些東西我想一致性的一個推動"},{"start":357.066,"end":380.182,"text":"都有 但是本席要知道的是說 針對這個區域那醫療可靜性的一個分佈那另外一個部分就是適合醫療的一個資源配置針對區域性的一個強化策略你們是不是有比較具體的一個措施那因為時間關係 我是不是也請你們會後做一個提供我簡單說一下 就是說一樣花東 花蓮跟台東還是不一樣就是這樣子不一樣 台東其實主要應該還是靠衛生所"},{"start":383.824,"end":399.12,"text":"花蓮那邊因為它有一個花池它有醫學中心是以大代小但是台中是非常不一樣的16個衛生所裡面我跟委員報告我們現在我也剛從台東回來上禮拜其實我去那邊考察其實最重要事實上是整個台東那邊的衛生所這邊我們會提出一個新的計畫"},{"start":400.621,"end":416.026,"text":"對 其實期待的就是這樣 感謝你至少知道花蓮跟台東不一樣那我也希望大家都知道 宜蘭 花蓮 台東很不一樣所以在許多的政策上 大家都會把它全部當東部可是如果當緯度一分 或者是區域一分其實這樣差異還是很大的"},{"start":418.767,"end":441.364,"text":"總共是154公里從成功到南邊大武那邊我覺得整個區域的分佈包括整個北部靠近成功還有台東市還有大武這邊南回這邊我覺得應該都有一些因地制宜不同的策略這邊我跟委員報告其實最主要是衛生所衛生所這邊我們的整個量能我覺得應該是最重要的一個重點"},{"start":442.595,"end":462.854,"text":"謝謝你們知道這樣一個問題所以本席比較期待看到是區域性的一個針對性的強化策略好那最後針對這個部分要請教三個部會那目前原住民的健康就業跟生活風險的這個問題其實分在不同的單位各自推動也缺乏整合那本席認為我們需要原住民族的健康專責機關"},{"start":464.375,"end":481.36,"text":"那原住民的健康問題不是只有醫療的問題還包括工作型態交通環境文化差異跟生活條件那這個部分不知道各部會是不是支持來推動設置原住民族健康專責機關作為跨部會整合的平台三個部會是不是可以給本席一個回應"},{"start":482.901,"end":500.674,"text":"跟委員報告就是我們跟衛福部還有原民會對原住民朋友各方面其實都有跨部會在協助當中至於說如何把這個機制做得更smooth更到位或者是推動的更部分這個部分我們也許可以再收集大家的意見來做考慮"},{"start":500.854,"end":522.772,"text":"那可能在更具體的 其實本席先前有提到就是在這個衛福部先前在討論某一些署的一個設置原住民的平均移民其實在現階段還是相較於一般來講有一個階段性的問題所以事實上在這個原住民的健康署的一個"},{"start":523.953,"end":539.464,"text":"這個方向是不是可以請你們考量跟討論看看好不好就是針對原住民健康照護的這個部分好嗎好 那也請大家支持一下至少原住民現在平均盈利我們希望能夠稍微及時地趕上好嗎"},{"start":540.345,"end":544.667,"text":"好 謝謝那最後 對不起那各部會請回出了這個園民會園民會我這邊可能做一個提醒那我現在是針對我們在整個家庭財富分配的這個部分要提醒你們注意一下那整個主計處最近的一個公告那整個家庭財富分配的統計那貧富差距也越來越大"},{"start":560.355,"end":574.363,"text":"這個問題其實已經很久了但是目前的數據已經從16.8的一個差距擴大到66.9已經是算是全國性的問題但是我們通常全國性的問題在原住民的這個社群裡面就會更加的這個劇烈"},{"start":575.844,"end":580.905,"text":"所以原民會你們在110年的經濟狀況調查原住民的貧富差距也越來越大但是都會區跟原鄉也是差距很大這雖然是當然只是說擴大也比較嚴重像在都會區平均大概96萬5000元但是山地鄉跟平地鄉目前大概差不多是74跟73萬差距很明顯比過去也是擴大很多"},{"start":601.989,"end":628.865,"text":"那所以整個資源跟機會的一個分配集中在特定的區域跟族群那變成原住民族內部也有一些新的不平等所以我想要請教一下那針對都會區跟園鄉之間收入的一個差距那園民會是不是有區域均衡的一個政策以免相關的這個資源過度集中在都會那第二個部分是針對原住民族內部貧富差距擴大的問題你們是不是有一個跨部會的整合的策略"},{"start":629.505,"end":647.225,"text":"那怎麼來結合產業發展教育培力跟就業的機會從結構面上來進行改善那這個部分 余明慧有沒有比較具體的一些作為好 跟委員報告那剛剛委員提到應該是不但是跨部會也是跨處事的問題我們就從就業教育跟經濟產業"},{"start":648.306,"end":664.025,"text":"整面來講我們都是因主因地制宜來去推動相關計畫那在社會福利處的部分就促進就業方案當中也顧及到現在我們都縣地區有已經近60%以上的人口那在"},{"start":665.386,"end":685.517,"text":"京巴處的一些產業四年計畫當中也有針對一些我們都議員跟一些相關屏幕差距的部分來去做那所以我們也希望在我們的相關計畫當中可以去把那個屏幕差距縮短然後也把薪資可以縮短目前是有比較具體的嗎還是你們都有已經預設到這個問題我們都有相關的一個計畫"},{"start":689.139,"end":717.638,"text":"教育方面因為剛剛有提到一些教育要去做一個因為有30%的一個初再選那個錯學率我們也希望針對這部分來去做處理那總歸來講我們其實在顏名會跟部會當中都是有蠻多的一個跨部會的一個平台包含是剛剛健康方面有健康政策會那勞動部方面我們有一個就業的一個相關平台這些也都固定在開會我們也會把一些相關各部會之間跟顏住民有關係的一些相關計畫"},{"start":719.039,"end":745.949,"text":"整齊來就是你們已有的會會提供給本席好不好然後本席所談到的這個未來的策進作為那你們有什麼樣一個方向可能也給本席這邊一個回應那因為最近本席也提到在原住民方面不管是都會或是原鄉的一些教育的一個重點那本席可能會會也請你們能夠在這個部分緊密的做一些溝通好那謝謝那最後是這邊針對兩個"},{"start":748.99,"end":765.703,"text":"還是針對可能我記得剛才那個盧委員在質詢的時候我沒有聽到一些那個部會比較確切的回應因為盧委員這邊他有提到那個促進原住民的就業獎勵那針對這個勞工的部分那園民會這邊有一些作為但是針對雇主的這個就是保險的這個部分的50%目前還在研議那我想請問一下這究竟是哪一個單位在處責是勞動部嗎"},{"start":779.124,"end":798.825,"text":"根文報告就我印象所及這部分是之前在談到說原住民朋友的勞工保險那個保費的部分雇主負擔的部分是不是要有一個協助的機制但這個協助的機制目前現階段看起來不太可能從公務機關的預算來處理"},{"start":800.246,"end":823.002,"text":"那我記得曾經在相應的保險有稍微談過但是相應的保險也目前在法院上也會有一些困難所以最終在這部分如何來做適度的處理我們可能要跟園民會這邊再來持續的討論就我所知道園民會後來有一些替代方案但是是不是可以符合大家的一個期待我們還要再持續的去溝通"},{"start":823.843,"end":841.798,"text":"所以目前也不太確定主責的單位是你們嗎如果說到最終是要補助雇主相關的勞保或者是相關保險的費用最終如果決定政策要處理會是勞動部要去處理但是現階段而言因為"},{"start":842.438,"end":861.387,"text":"因為包括涉及到經費多少如何去做處理然後在怎麼一個面向去做相應的機制協助那這部分原理會才會是比較專業的單位所以我們在這部分持續都有在一些討論那我們會在持續就這部分再來做一些釐清和瞭解看有沒有一些機會可以來處理"},{"start":862.984,"end":879.147,"text":"那就謝謝勞動部那希望未來假設你們主責的話那可能或是你們已有的相關報告在一些困難點那你說適不適合公部門然後怎麼個處理跟一些障礙我想你們應該會有一些記錄那是不是可以提供給本席做一個參考我們回去看"},{"start":879.608,"end":905.76,"text":"找一下相應的紀錄那因為這部分對勞動部來講我們比較不會直接單純針對特定的族群或特定的對象去提供相應的措施所以勢必要跟原民會做一些協助那包括發動或者說一些具體的影響評估這方面我們跟原民會會一起來再做一些處理那過往的一些相應的軌跡跟紀錄我們再來整理給委員"},{"start":907.588,"end":935.204,"text":"謝謝 那既然這樣 本席這邊有兩個東西其實有一個東西也是跟你們一來的時候其實教育部跟你們也是都有一些說對方的一個主責啦那我們這邊提兩個東西 一個也是呼籲剛才吳麗華委員這邊提的那麼移工對原住民就影響了一個衝擊那是不是你們最後到底是勞動部或者是園民會這邊可以有一個具體的這個結果 截至目前為止這個衝擊"},{"start":936.244,"end":963.866,"text":"正負面我想應該是要有一些評估嘛這部分我們跟原民會一起來處理原民的處長有講他們在那個計畫裡面會去做你是在一個大計畫裡面會針對這個部分做一個評估可是本席要知道的是說我們先知道這個問題在哪裡然後你再計畫再施行而不是計畫施行之後你先把這個東西又包在裡面你如果不知道原因那可能原因問題只會越來越大所以本席提到的是一個比較單一的"},{"start":965.327,"end":985.142,"text":"究竟移工對原住民的影響有多大或者是正負面我覺得這個部分要先獨立出來我們先了解問題才知道如何解決問題那本席有聽到您剛才講的就是說目前有一個健康相關的計畫你要把它放進去做本席是覺得這樣有點雜本席要先知道那移工目前對原住民的影響在正負面來講"},{"start":986.983,"end":1005.356,"text":"有哪一些狀態然後最後那個也是勞工部這邊本席一直要不然你們自己去跟教育部說啦可能也跟園民會商量本席不希望園民會到最後就是你們又大雜匯因為聽起來你會大雜匯的一個處理也就是那麼這個原住民的這個學生在"},{"start":1006.537,"end":1035.055,"text":"原專班之後呢 那請問到社會上他的一個就業的他就業的形態到底是什麼我覺得目前你們各部會之間沒有沒有把它連結起來就是自己知道可能有一些數額可是我們沒有辦法知道這個系統性的狀態是什麼所以包括原住民的學生畢業以後就在原專班畢業以後那他就業的職場那勞動部你們說教育部做教育部認為勞動部要做其實本席已經兩年了還沒有拿到相關的資料"},{"start":1036.016,"end":1058.623,"text":"到最後不會又通通都是原民會做吧所以這個你們是不是演繹一下我覺得今天有三個問題啦第一個就是有關於這個雇主的這個保險的這個補助那第二個部分呢就是原住民族的這個這個就業移工對原住民族就業的一個影響然後第三個部分是本席兩年都沒有拿到相關資料因為你們各部會都說其他人嘛"},{"start":1059.543,"end":1068.574,"text":"其他的部會所以到現在沒有一個部會真的能夠主責所以就是那原住民的學生在學校學習尤其特別是原專班然後到了這個就業職場上的一個的這個數量還有數額還有比例這是本席"},{"start":1075.222,"end":1102.508,"text":"要知道的 這樣我們才能就政策面來說一個檢討嘛好不好 那這部分看起來所有單位都會找園民會可是希望園民會你們可不可以知道問題有些時候你們的量能可能沒有辦法去涵蓋到社會的整體面所以剛才那個問題先知道問題是什麼那我們再從你們的計畫政策裡面去做處理這樣才不會一堆問題都包進來結果到最後處理的並不是那麼有效度 好不好"},{"start":1103.348,"end":1126.225,"text":"那也請勞動部跟這個相關的單位今天我們也有這個衛福部嘛那針對本席所講的健康的這個問題可不可以針對原住民的健康那我們有一個獨立的單位來做處理至少把我們的平均餘命提高到比較接近這一般值那其他就是剛才本席所講的我們先找出問題然後再去處理這個問題的一個應對好嗎"},{"start":1129.789,"end":1152.385,"text":"跟委員再補充一下就是我們原住民的就業狀況調查當中其實有把那個外勞的那個影響那個數據是有放進來但是影響評估是沒有影響評估這個東西有點系統性也有一些連接性你們真的是要跟那個勞動部這邊來更比較縝密的一個連結那才會知道比較細節性的一個問題在哪裡好嗎好謝謝好謝謝我們林倩熙委員質詢接下來"}]}},{"id":"168180","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168180","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106caf43c13d065a7a3d7570c8d4d2e9dc78b88717e2a81a321e046b0eefe8e5e5315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"14:12:40 - 14:21:46","影片長度":"00:09:06","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T14:12:40+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T14:21:46+08:00","duration":546,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.970968750000001,"end":9.177218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.750968750000002,"end":11.35409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.848,"end":8.069,"text":"謝謝主席 有請勞動部 袁銘慧請楊次長 羅處長"}]}},{"id":"168141","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168141","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c537cbfddc74f2bc6bad885c3c28ba2b2afe627a357cd2d7f6367c9c5a82321895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"11:37:10 - 11:48:52","影片長度":"00:11:42","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:37:10+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:48:52+08:00","duration":702,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.31784375,"end":5.599718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.6040937500000005,"end":7.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.814093750000001,"end":49.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.710968750000006,"end":54.45284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.84096875,"end":55.549718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.70159375,"end":75.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.40159375,"end":58.890968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.58221875,"end":63.666593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.91534375,"end":65.47221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.10471875,"end":68.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.30721875,"end":68.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.57659375,"end":73.09971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.85034375000001,"end":89.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.96846875,"end":78.56721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.83721875,"end":79.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.89159375,"end":82.36409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.49034375000001,"end":85.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.80596875,"end":90.14346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.14346875000001,"end":93.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.62409375,"end":92.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.33284375000001,"end":98.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.61471875000001,"end":103.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.66534375,"end":98.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.73659375000001,"end":102.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.55909375,"end":144.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.51471875000001,"end":151.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.22721875000002,"end":148.61534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.17596875,"end":154.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.60596875000002,"end":155.01096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.01096875000002,"end":155.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.04471875000002,"end":155.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.15846875,"end":157.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.98096875000002,"end":160.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.03159375,"end":158.43659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.07346875000002,"end":160.54596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.25909375,"end":165.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.54596875000001,"end":160.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.69284375,"end":166.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.87846875000002,"end":174.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.67534375000002,"end":170.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.23159375,"end":222.93284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.27971875,"end":217.29659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":217.29659375000003,"end":217.75221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.33784375000002,"end":223.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.04159375,"end":244.76909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.57909375000003,"end":272.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.78159375,"end":277.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.97909375,"end":278.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":278.19846875,"end":285.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.21534375000005,"end":278.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.81409375000004,"end":281.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.69096875,"end":286.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":285.89346875,"end":289.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.39534375,"end":287.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.43721875,"end":289.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.75784375,"end":292.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.60971875,"end":293.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.06534375,"end":294.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.71909375,"end":294.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.85409375,"end":296.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.52471875000003,"end":296.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":296.82846875,"end":302.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.83596875,"end":303.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.10596875000005,"end":304.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.84409375,"end":305.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":305.04659375,"end":308.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.92784375,"end":309.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.33284375,"end":312.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.52221875000004,"end":312.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.75846875,"end":318.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.85034375000004,"end":319.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":319.05284375,"end":340.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.02284375,"end":322.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.30096875000004,"end":324.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.37534375,"end":334.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.51034375,"end":334.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.49284375,"end":339.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.33221875000004,"end":360.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.86909375000005,"end":362.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.63659375000003,"end":397.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.97721875,"end":417.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.36221875,"end":418.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":418.37909375000004,"end":424.04909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.04909375000005,"end":424.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":425.07846875,"end":428.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.75721875000005,"end":429.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":429.33096875,"end":432.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.64284375000005,"end":432.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.72284375000004,"end":433.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.16159375,"end":436.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.58721875000003,"end":436.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.62096875000003,"end":436.70534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.70534375000005,"end":437.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.19471875000005,"end":441.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":441.37971875000005,"end":447.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.63221875000005,"end":445.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.92721875,"end":448.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":448.04534375000003,"end":452.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.41596875000005,"end":452.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":452.71971875,"end":457.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.44471875000005,"end":457.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.46159375,"end":470.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.11096875000004,"end":460.29659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.25846875,"end":461.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.46909375,"end":463.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.35409375,"end":470.87721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.87721875000005,"end":475.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.28159375,"end":475.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.55159375000005,"end":479.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.26409375000003,"end":479.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":479.63534375,"end":484.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.98909375000005,"end":484.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":484.25909375000003,"end":486.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":486.52034375000005,"end":487.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.54971875,"end":487.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":487.63409375000003,"end":489.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.59159375,"end":489.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":490.03034375000004,"end":492.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":493.06784375,"end":495.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.58221875000004,"end":496.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":496.00409375000004,"end":503.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.83909375,"end":501.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.64034375000006,"end":501.67409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.74159375000005,"end":502.51784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.98596875000004,"end":504.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":504.34034375000005,"end":509.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.55471875,"end":510.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":509.75721875000005,"end":510.95534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.95534375000005,"end":532.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":529.8047187500001,"end":535.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.57221875,"end":533.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.20471875,"end":535.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":535.5590937500001,"end":536.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.90909375,"end":537.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":537.16221875,"end":543.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.17909375,"end":537.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.08534375,"end":543.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":543.4397187500001,"end":547.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":547.6584687500001,"end":549.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.8015937499999,"end":550.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":550.08846875,"end":550.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":550.12221875,"end":552.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.13909375,"end":550.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.5690937500001,"end":552.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":552.77159375,"end":557.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.3784687500001,"end":557.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":557.7665937500001,"end":561.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.91784375,"end":562.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":562.1203437500001,"end":563.8415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.8415937500001,"end":564.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":563.9597187500001,"end":571.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.19909375,"end":571.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":571.33409375,"end":576.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.78971875,"end":572.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.31221875,"end":576.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":576.4809687500001,"end":586.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.7084687500001,"end":578.7253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.7253437500001,"end":579.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.13346875,"end":586.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":586.3359687500001,"end":589.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.74471875,"end":589.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.79534375,"end":589.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.81221875,"end":589.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.9640937500001,"end":590.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":590.0990937500001,"end":591.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.16659375,"end":590.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.75284375,"end":591.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.76971875,"end":592.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":591.9722187500001,"end":593.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.87909375,"end":599.2959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.65034375,"end":605.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":604.6453437499999,"end":611.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.55659375,"end":607.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.2434687500001,"end":611.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":611.42909375,"end":613.4709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.46284375,"end":611.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.4709687500001,"end":613.7747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":613.69034375,"end":614.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.7747187500001,"end":613.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.80846875,"end":613.8928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.93909375,"end":614.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.9897187500001,"end":615.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.25971875,"end":634.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":634.95284375,"end":640.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.1672187500001,"end":644.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":641.68596875,"end":644.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.92596875,"end":644.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":644.9765937500001,"end":644.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.9934687500001,"end":645.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":645.33096875,"end":645.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":645.34784375,"end":645.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":646.46159375,"end":650.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.64659375,"end":651.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":650.8997187500001,"end":659.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":659.84346875,"end":659.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":659.9953437500001,"end":662.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.5434687500001,"end":662.8640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":662.8303437500001,"end":672.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":672.58409375,"end":679.3172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.3172187499999,"end":679.7390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":679.7390937499999,"end":680.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":681.2747187500001,"end":682.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.70909375,"end":683.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.9622187500001,"end":686.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":686.97846875,"end":686.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.9953437500001,"end":687.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":687.0290937500001,"end":687.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.1303437500001,"end":691.2647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.0834687500001,"end":702.16596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.11,"end":7.013,"text":"謝謝主席我先請經濟部次長請經濟部次長好 次長好那這個其實跟我之前這個案件有點類似我記得之前在經濟委員會的時候有問過淘寶等等相關的那時候有得到一些答覆後續也有做一些處理那這一次我想問的是瑞幸咖啡"},{"start":27.603,"end":48.711,"text":"就是說因為目前按照這個瑞幸咖啡的這個說法就是經濟部也有講說他說這個是這個若是透過代理商進入台灣屬於這種商業行為那就沒有辦法去用投審會來處理那但是到底是怎樣這個我現在還不是很清楚是不是有可能請次長稍微說明一下現在瑞幸咖啡的狀況"},{"start":50.536,"end":75.236,"text":"謝謝委員關心瑞幸咖啡它是之前有透過在台灣的公司我應該這樣講台灣的有一家公司有在申請公司的設立我們也同意了後來台灣的這家公司就有表達它希望能夠代理"},{"start":76.116,"end":103.417,"text":"所以比較像是代理這條路所以我們跟這家台灣的公司有一直保持密切的聯絡因為對於這家台灣公司跟新加坡商他之間的關係到底是什麼樣子而且他們也有簽訂相關的合約所以我們現在還在繼續的了解中他們的契約的內容非常的多所以我們在逐項的在了解"},{"start":104.097,"end":127.726,"text":"這個要麻煩經濟部,因為畢竟就是雖然他說是咖啡,但比如說像瑞幸咖啡在中國他有APP嘛那就算沒有APP,比如說你要加入他的會員,他會員也會有台灣人的資料所以無論如何他一定會有跟我們國人的隱私要如何保障的問題那如果說單純的中資,其實投審會來處理什麼之類這個我覺得目前來講我們的機制已經越來越完善"},{"start":128.186,"end":144.152,"text":"但如果是按照就像剛剛您講這個如果是用代理的方式這個相關的這個規範這個審查當然可以有內規但是我們顯得法律有沒有不足的地方就是有沒有可能就是需要更多的法源才有讓經濟部有辦法處理像類似像這樣的事物"},{"start":145.131,"end":174.064,"text":"資安的部分個資的部分也是我們非常的關心所以我們也有在詢問台灣的這家公司到底他跟新加坡商有談到是否會仿效這個瑞幸在中國的使用APP的部分我們還在等台灣的這家公司給我們回覆資安絕對是我們要資安等於國安所以這個部分還有個資的部分這是一定我們會很堅持的"},{"start":174.264,"end":202.711,"text":"嗯哼因為這個齁就是說真的就是說齁這個就我之後還會繼續再追這一題啦齁那但是我覺得像你說TikTok他也是說他在新加坡但我們背後我們也都知道他的自己的跳動其實在後面是佔有實質的這個影響力那我現在看他如果說他在台灣不管他的Logo啊什麼之類如果他跟中國都是一樣的那等於又說欸他用一個新加坡然後又說他要帶然後又從台灣來走代理但是問題是他背後很有可能就還是中國"},{"start":203.331,"end":221.669,"text":"那所以這個部分呢除了我們要釐清有沒有中國以外它的隱私要怎麼保障這兩個層次我們可能都要來釐清那這個之後呢可能再到這個經濟委員會或有時候到辦公室我們再來繼續持續追這件事情我覺得國人的隱私要保護這真的非常的重要是那謝謝那我覺得之前那個主席我要請外交部謝謝 請部長請部長"},{"start":229.379,"end":242.547,"text":"部長好我相信今天很多人都是要問霸凌相關的這個事情新聞報導什麼等等之類的這個我待會晚一點再說因為我覺得有幾件比較重要的事情我想先問第一個就是這一個"},{"start":246.409,"end":272.015,"text":"這個卡麥隆就是說現在這一個我剛看前面的委員有提到就是說因為我們缺席這一個WTO的這一個部長會議那確實啦這怎麼看都是一個中國的施壓那我認為啦就是說在過往我們在這個2758號其實也是打了漂亮的一仗那現在呢中國還是持續用這樣的一個方式去矮化台灣的一個國格目前外交部對此事的應對是如何"},{"start":273.267,"end":293.783,"text":"對這事情就是說我們當然積極爭取那也要有堅定的立場但是我們也要預防未來再發生就這個部分因為大家在交涉的過程包括WTO的秘書處還有包括各國都其實表達關切但是柯麥隆他就是吃了剩腿鐵了心因為你要入境"},{"start":295.044,"end":312.09,"text":"你必須要經過他的海關啊那好那後來要補救嘛發個邀請函至少讓我們有一個對不對符合我們身份的可是這個時候就錯誤百出所以時間一直在過所以我們的方式就是我們把資料先送進去包括我們的書面的所有的報告我們的立場"},{"start":312.87,"end":339.767,"text":"那也表達抗議然後也要求未來包括秘書處都要針對申請主辦國必須承諾不能夠違反相關規定所以有的時候危機也是轉機我們把它轉為未來不會再發生的一個契機所以這件事情的處理我們是確實是有整體上考慮到我們的目標然後我們的攻防那最後這個結果當然我們也表達抗議不能接受可是我們讓它以後不會再發生"},{"start":341.388,"end":360.313,"text":"那我覺得這件事情我認為是處理的好就是說以這件事情來講我們外交部絕對不能自私立場那你看這個標題這個自由社會標題有說外交部說這個一中妙論誤導國際社會那我現在我發現就是當然一中妙論就是最主要是中國在傳遞這個一中妙論但我看在台灣講一中妙論的人也不少"},{"start":361.133,"end":377.189,"text":"就是說這一個他說這個全球都挺一中這是鄭麗文說的那他講這一個所謂的全球我就來看這一個新加坡這邊的這個非營利組織這個學者他就有講他說去整理各國的文件他就放些這個所謂的"},{"start":378.71,"end":397.427,"text":"這個所謂的一中原則然後呢一個中國的政策這兩個的差異他發現在各國的文件裡面真正有recognize說這一個中國是唯一的合法政府而且台灣把台灣放在中國的一部分根本就不是他們常常宣稱的一百八十幾國而是五十一國而已"},{"start":398.087,"end":423.512,"text":"所以這一個論述其實很重要就是說2758號那一次的戰役我剛剛前面有提到我們把這個法律的論述裁穩而且很多國家站在我們這一邊嘛那現在我們是又再提出在外交上對方講的這個一中論述有問題然後也不是每一個國家都同意而且看起來是很多國家並沒有採取這個立場對 所以這個有點像假訊息啦所謂的什麼一中是全球共識"},{"start":425.134,"end":440.693,"text":"有些國家跟中共建交的時候都還沒有二七五八號決議而且有些國家其實就是沒有一中政策不要講一中原則很多的國家包括G7裡面也有甚至有些國家說那你要有一個中國你要有一個印度政策"},{"start":441.454,"end":464.14,"text":"那對台灣來講我們在國際上就避免跟一中有什麼牽扯不管什麼一中政策很容易變成一公原則這也是為什麼現在國際包括G7的這些首長會議都宣布的時候他們在談都不談不太用一中因為會被扭曲你沒講的話中共都把你放進你的嘴巴了何況你去講的一中然後你接的是政策他接的是原則所以日方"},{"start":464.66,"end":490.408,"text":"比如說或像英國或像這些其實很多包括印度等其實大家都不願意順從中共那樣子扭曲因為他會得寸進尺他會無中生有然後最後就用這個東西來給你霸凌然後因為他說實在他是像流氓一樣的用作法很多人沒有不想要跟他整天在爭吵所以就導致他到全球南方所以這51個國家其實很多"},{"start":493.149,"end":502.26,"text":"根本就不瞭解什麼一中兩中三中啊都完全不瞭解了就在你中國去講啦就是連這五十一個都很多事加起來你就給他好處啦那些國家你就替我寫就好了所以不能夠用什麼一個中國這個什麼什麼東西是國際的共識這個"},{"start":510.248,"end":536.422,"text":"沒有這個事情對 所以我覺得因為這是2758他們現在發現越來越多國家反對他又又回來要講這個所謂的一中那一中我們在應對的方式剛剛部長其實我覺得講得非常的清楚但我覺得國內真的是很多人會去應和這樣的論述那就拜託我們這樣的論述我們是要開展就是我們對於這件事情的外交的方式我跟委員補充一下九二共識這個字眼是什麼出來的兩千年嘛第一次政壤輪替嘛"},{"start":537.222,"end":556.85,"text":"那1992年有講92公司嗎 沒有2758號決議最近跑出來嘛就是因為中共的一中嘛所以大家都要去反制所以美國的國務院就有四點立場然後現在所有的國家包括IPEC很多的這個議會都通過就是在否定中共他用這一種所謂的認知作戰"},{"start":557.91,"end":574.66,"text":"其實是扭曲說用法律戰來賦予他武力犯台的基礎跟壓縮我們的國際空間所以為什麼很多國家一開始就說你們台灣一直在講說不要去支持2758決議是什麼東西很多國家根本不知道然後結果歐洲議會那些議員去看之後發現150個字裡面沒有出現台灣所以這是一個假的東西然後稻草人然後可以講久了變成 謊話說100遍變真的嗎其實這只要一個氣球你只要一個針把它戳破"},{"start":586.446,"end":614.634,"text":"大家了解之後可是因為全球南方很多國家沒機會了解因為他就服從中國嘛我們台灣不能去服從中國真的我們要刺破對方的謊言他有一個前提就是我們還是要趕快省總預算不然的話你那個那個針連買針的錢都沒有因為我們要刺破對方的技巧就國王的新衣沒有穿但是他一直國王說他有穿我們知道很多人就說你穿好漂亮久了他也覺得他是國王有穿新衣就是沒有穿衣服"},{"start":616.409,"end":644.768,"text":"因為時間到了那接下來就是說今天很多人在關心這個霸凌的問題那我剛剛因為前面大家已經提很多我就不重複那我剛剛有聽到部長應該是有講到就是說當然新聞報導是新聞報導新聞報導我們要去驗證但是雖然還沒有直接聽到有申訴但就算沒有申訴是不是也會做主動的調查對我們已經有要求了解然後我們人事處也在這個進行了解中OK我覺得這個反應很重要就是說我們不是說要申訴我們就要主動調查我們不容許霸凌"},{"start":646.529,"end":670.947,"text":"我們期待就是說如果有申訴我們辦理沒有申訴我們要去了解因為大家在關心了所以我也是有我有得到初步就是針對這個事情的回應那委員們希望說那個余大使他有對外的說明我們也會就請他應該要對外有所說明那這個就是因為有時候有一些批評難免會"},{"start":672.668,"end":699.614,"text":"不斷的隱身啦比如說我提到就是外面講到所謂換了20個這個清潔工這個是20個去哪裡找啊但我不能因為這樣子說人家的質疑我們不去釐清我覺得如果有都改進對不對沒有的話我們要盡快讓國人知道啦我覺得這才是最重要的事情我覺得作為政府的官員我們就是要讓國人知道現在政府做了哪些進度違和我認為這是重要的好時間到了謝謝部長謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"168140","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168140","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c8f6ca75c2f4d3735811c6ac3ddeb80e0afe627a357cd2d7faf1408e11982b4235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"11:34:26 - 11:45:03","影片長度":"00:10:37","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林沛祥等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林德福等31人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員涂權吉等23人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員許宇甄等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員黃健豪等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員羅智強等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員游顥等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員賴士葆等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員羅明才等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法繼承編施行法增訂第十二條條文草案」案。\n【4月1日及2日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:34:26+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:45:03+08:00","duration":637,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-5-36-5"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.915968750000001,"end":13.750343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.31971875,"end":15.825968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.34909375,"end":16.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.95659375,"end":40.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.087843750000005,"end":55.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.086593750000006,"end":49.103468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.34721875,"end":71.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.15909375000001,"end":74.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.25596875000001,"end":75.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.07409375,"end":86.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.10346875,"end":77.48721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.10721875,"end":80.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.22846875,"end":87.17346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.17346875000001,"end":88.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.19034375000001,"end":89.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.02971875,"end":89.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.06346875,"end":92.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.09721875000001,"end":89.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.77596875,"end":98.20971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.26534375,"end":93.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.04971875000001,"end":96.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.27721875,"end":98.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.31096875,"end":99.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.49659375,"end":112.67159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.70596875000001,"end":108.72284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.06034375,"end":109.12784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.00909375,"end":113.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.27471875,"end":121.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.45096875,"end":178.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.56846875000002,"end":184.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.50409375,"end":186.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.88784375,"end":218.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.13596875000002,"end":252.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.61159375000003,"end":254.43846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.92784375000002,"end":263.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.14159375,"end":265.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.44096875,"end":274.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.65471875000003,"end":292.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.54221875,"end":323.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.40471875000003,"end":308.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.91409375,"end":316.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.89284375,"end":316.99409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.21346875,"end":317.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.75346875,"end":317.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.96784375000004,"end":330.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.52034375,"end":327.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.31721875,"end":328.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.49409375000005,"end":343.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.23034375000003,"end":346.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.03596875,"end":347.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.30159375,"end":347.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.48721875,"end":364.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.73346875000004,"end":366.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.97784375000003,"end":391.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.17221875,"end":409.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.48596875000004,"end":428.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.68659375000004,"end":421.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.63909375000003,"end":432.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.76909375,"end":435.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.28346875000005,"end":453.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.95159375000003,"end":464.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.90346875,"end":467.89034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.43034375,"end":468.76784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.08846875,"end":475.48409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.82159375000003,"end":480.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.63096875,"end":496.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.94909375000003,"end":497.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.06284375,"end":499.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.10471875,"end":501.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.48846875000004,"end":513.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.24159375,"end":516.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.8615937500001,"end":518.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.0047187499999,"end":519.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.0847187500001,"end":523.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.99971875,"end":524.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.52284375,"end":524.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.1640937500001,"end":580.8178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.4128437500001,"end":635.5772187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.6953437500001,"end":636.8090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":636.3872187500001,"end":638.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.15909375,"end":638.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.2434687500001,"end":638.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.27721875,"end":638.3447187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.384,"end":13.212,"text":"謝主席 楊瓊瑩發言 邀請法務部跟司法好 要有請次長跟廳長委員好"},{"start":16.428,"end":39.764,"text":"好 就今天本席跟黃建豪等28人所提案針對民法第1223條的修正也就是刪除兄弟姊妹特留份規定落實遺產自由並維護繼承的一個公平我請教兩位 是不是贊同本席的這個提案 請說明"},{"start":41.882,"end":70.661,"text":"就法務部的立場報告和我多次答詢我已經持有刪除兄弟姐妹特留方向的部分我們是贊成的只在刪除的架構底下法務部一直主張希望有增加兩條到三條的配套的條文來做補充配套的條文現在委員以及社會大眾方向跟您的方向也是一樣也就是都同意刪除的這個方向那你的配套今天我們已經在尋答在審議你什麼時候要出來"},{"start":72.442,"end":78.746,"text":"為什麼會慢半拍呢 你既然認同為什麼還要等待這個時間呢什麼時候會出來我們剛剛就希望這個會期結束之前我們能夠進行預告提出預告 條文提出預告這個會期結束進行預告 可是我們已經ING在審查當中"},{"start":93.445,"end":112.425,"text":"你還說你沒慢半拍這個法案提出已經什麼時候就已經提出啊好 法部我們仍舊希望因為立法院在審議在詢答我們希望你的角陳要一起提出來做討論這才是重點這是非常重要因為既然大家方向是一致嘛來 司法 廳長"},{"start":114.332,"end":131.394,"text":"包括委員關於這個兄弟姊妹特留份的刪除司法院的立場是認同的同意是認同的非常感謝那也就是說因為依照民法將兄弟姊妹來列為特留份的這個權利人因為我們以往的社會"},{"start":132.895,"end":160.795,"text":"這個生活方式跟形態到現在有很大的改變早期是大家族共同撫養的一個結構所以有當時這樣子的一個設置但是我們當前核心的家庭形態它已經跟以往這個是不一樣了所以實際上兄弟姊妹長大之後呢他也各自能夠獨立有各自去獨立 去經濟所以如果我們強制去分配遺產 倒置"},{"start":162.196,"end":184.681,"text":"無子女者即使他有立到這個遺族他就沒有辦法依照他自己意願去分財產那不僅是侵害了遺族的自由更形成未婚未育反而被制度去做懲罰這也就是我們大家贊同的不對等的一個現象再來我們也看到日本 德國"},{"start":186.96,"end":201.572,"text":"法國他們這個法治國家都已經早已經是排除那在去年2024年2024年前的時候呢那韓國他也宣告違憲並已經廢止了所以呢剛剛我們已經有討論到"},{"start":202.873,"end":218.109,"text":"大家都認同是取消的那至於你的配套我還是勉勵在我們審議當中你有這個方向就必須提出共同討論讓這個案能夠真正的落實在我們社會的一個"},{"start":219.55,"end":240.301,"text":"這個公正上面才不會又引導說立了遺囑而沒有辦法去落實的這個人民信賴保護原則最高的原則去受挑戰好 所以要加油那接下來本席法務部我要請教中東戰爭這原有的這個問題讓石化業在這個它的原料方面呢"},{"start":241.301,"end":250.587,"text":"PE PVVC 這一些不斷在漲 尤其乙烯的部分它不是漲四五十趴它乙烯的部分現在幾乎漲到一倍 97%那現在導致報價"},{"start":255.034,"end":274.376,"text":"也沒有辦法出貨甚至報價頂多給你出半料那所以導致我們整個生活產業的形態大受影響塑膠袋紙杯這些會大受影響那現在你們說你們在查你們查的方向是什麼進度是什麼請做說明"},{"start":275.937,"end":291.867,"text":"這涉及到行政方面的角度跟行事方面的角度行政方面的角度的話 部裡面有一個物價聯合計查小組會到各主管機關 結合各主管機關到各地去做查訪如果有涉及行政 他就行政裁罰"},{"start":292.848,"end":316.235,"text":"這是行政角度那從刑事犯罪的角度呢我們台高檢署呢他有一個平台他已經要求所屬各地檢的這個打擊民生犯罪平台各地檢署要結合轄區內的所有的相關機關他要成立自己的平台然後呢如果一旦什麼時候成立跟我們報告台高檢署他已經在上個禮拜已經成立這個平台早就有他已經重申在上個禮拜加重嗎"},{"start":317.255,"end":343.341,"text":"要求那各地檢處要求說各地檢處在這個禮拜都陸續的召集轄區內的平台在召會所以還沒有實際去執行嗎有有有 已經有實際執行有沒有 本期要請問的是這個因為已經告訴你末端沒有辦法出貨影響到我們的民生產業了那到底你從上個禮拜開始注重到這個問題說你們要去查那到現在今天已經是禮拜四了"},{"start":344.281,"end":370.646,"text":"那到底查的情況到底是怎麼樣?那個中央的聯合稽查 物價聯合稽查小組昨天就已經聯合稽查了那您提到的各地方的地檢署的檢察官的部分他也陸續地質稽查但相關有沒有案件正在 他還要進行蒐證的過程嘛他不可能昨天查 今天就有案子出現他要進行相關的蒐證所以你現在回答本席的就是說從上個禮拜你們已經有開始啟動"},{"start":372.667,"end":391.148,"text":"因為這位大眾要了解是政府的進度到底是什麼啊也就是上個禮拜你們開始啟動現在還是有進行是在查是不是如此那當然那請教那當然為什麼越查越漲價為什麼越查越末端越沒有辦法出貨"},{"start":394.134,"end":408.484,"text":"這問題到底出在哪裡這問題當然很多那就從法務部的角度來看我們當然是要有行政部法要聯合稽查有刑事部法我們要進行偵辦委員提到的那個變數因素太多了那就不是法務部它的主管範圍"},{"start":409.605,"end":427.812,"text":"所以法部當然在查的時候就是說你如何去區分它是合理的庫存行為跟不法的囤積那當然公平會有沒有聯合的壟斷這是政府必須橫向去聯繫的因為我們要看的是民眾的需求"},{"start":429.092,"end":453.624,"text":"產業的需求產業的需求看到政府越查越漲價越查越沒有出貨這是我們身為民代必須告訴政府我們現在碰到的困難是如何所以你們必須橫向的去了解因為本席非常深胖如果無限量的一直漲在這樣的情況之下整個民生通膨在漲哇 那這個人民的生活太痛苦了"},{"start":454.344,"end":467.664,"text":"所以政府必須要拿出政府的權責要好好去做一定要加油最後本席一個課題給你也就是說我們現在在新北校園割井的這個案件"},{"start":469.257,"end":496.013,"text":"那在這個案件當中到底據聞你們3月23號是有開公聽會去做這個討論那到底我們司法院也就是有危險的高暴力的這一些反覆偏差行為的你如果讓他一直留在一般的校園那我們的老師怎麼辦我們的孩子怎麼辦家長問了一句話我的孩子在學校有沒有安全"},{"start":498.415,"end":513.281,"text":"這個是民主國家不應當有的話語不應當這樣子但是他明明白白會讓家長來憂心所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教成立專責關護機構是不是有這個必要因為教育部司法院還有法務部你們三方那現在你們的公聽會方向有沒有一致了"},{"start":527.423,"end":540.067,"text":"有關高風險飛行少年回到校園的安全目前司法院在少年法庭這一端已經實施了所謂高風險篩選"},{"start":541.687,"end":556.246,"text":"一篩選到高中選加入幫派或有危害生命的一律都是用隔離方式的那這個也跟教育部一起有所謂的過渡性中途的學校教育措施來隔離另外比較嚴重的我們是送到這個角質學校"},{"start":560.05,"end":579.505,"text":"第三方面就是這幾個所有行政端跟司法端聯合開這種專案的資源整合會議來將這些高風險的孩子有一個層次的處理至於說要不要成立關戶署這個是一個國家大政策的問題那我們同意一起討論一起研究"},{"start":580.726,"end":603.82,"text":"討論一句同意討論因為3月23號裡頭教育部跟跟法務部你們都是贊成的就司法的部分你們有意見當然有意見我們要好好去討論因為我們要看的是末端如果依照廳長你剛剛所說的你都是足夠的但是足夠一樣跟剛剛那個議題一樣末端的時候家長問一句我的孩子在校園到底安不安全"},{"start":604.42,"end":626.047,"text":"到底安不安全這個是我們必須要去思考的而不是我們依照目前的制度但是你的答案是不好的那就有討論的空間所以我也歡喜有看到3月23號的這個公聽會那兩方都贊成就你這方還有疑慮我希望三方還是要好好的去討論我們的目標就是讓孩子"},{"start":626.587,"end":634.663,"text":"能夠安全這是我們終極的目標嘛對不對所以我們必須要好好再討論好嗎讓我們的孩子安全謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168139","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168139","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cf11d5dd2fc61cb88bad885c3c28ba2b2afe627a357cd2d7fbf58e434f61d1a005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:26:23 - 11:36:47","影片長度":"00:10:24","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:26:23+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:36:47+08:00","duration":624,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-5-35-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.56659375,"end":3.3553437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.6759687500000005,"end":4.570343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.262218750000001,"end":5.9372187499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.645343750000002,"end":12.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.450968750000001,"end":20.820968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.090968750000002,"end":22.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.49159375,"end":25.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.89596875,"end":40.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.408468750000004,"end":43.079093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.11284375,"end":47.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.87159375,"end":53.946593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.50346875,"end":58.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.24971875000001,"end":68.02034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.71221875,"end":83.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.62971875000001,"end":84.43971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.95034375,"end":85.11471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.11471875000001,"end":85.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.14846875,"end":85.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.16534375,"end":86.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.02596875,"end":86.12721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.12721875000001,"end":86.14409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.14409375000001,"end":86.16096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.16096875000001,"end":86.17784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.61659375,"end":86.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.68409375,"end":90.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.98721875000001,"end":92.28659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.28659375000001,"end":92.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.38346875,"end":93.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.41721875,"end":93.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.48471875,"end":93.50159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.50159375000001,"end":93.51846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.67034375,"end":93.73784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.73784375000001,"end":95.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.92346875000001,"end":94.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.23971875000001,"end":102.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.61409375000001,"end":105.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.71909375000001,"end":110.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.22034375000001,"end":111.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.65471875,"end":121.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.02909375,"end":123.01596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.22284375000001,"end":128.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.87159375000002,"end":129.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.93471875,"end":134.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.35159375,"end":136.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.03471875,"end":140.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.65034375000002,"end":143.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.14346875,"end":146.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.38346875000002,"end":151.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.68221875,"end":154.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.39909375000002,"end":159.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.99784375000002,"end":160.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.24221875,"end":160.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.96784375000001,"end":161.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.60909375,"end":161.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.84534375,"end":161.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.91284375,"end":166.77284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.40221875,"end":164.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.16971875000002,"end":172.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.79284375,"end":176.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.29909375,"end":175.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.61096875,"end":180.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.04909375,"end":182.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.95596875,"end":184.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.94284375,"end":186.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.83721875,"end":189.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.68471875,"end":190.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.97159375,"end":191.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.89971875,"end":191.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.93346875,"end":202.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.91971875000002,"end":199.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.51409375,"end":218.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.28159375,"end":205.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.51784375000003,"end":205.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.48284375,"end":236.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.15846875000003,"end":240.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.68534375000002,"end":241.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.86659375000002,"end":245.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.91221875000002,"end":252.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.01346875000002,"end":252.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.86909375000002,"end":253.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.64534375000002,"end":258.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.45471875000004,"end":259.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.99034375,"end":262.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.80846875000003,"end":263.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.74909375000004,"end":267.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.17471875,"end":282.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.85596875000005,"end":291.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.04159375,"end":284.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.26909375,"end":285.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.93534375,"end":298.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.07284375,"end":300.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.42284375,"end":303.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.64596875,"end":311.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.76284375,"end":315.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.14596875,"end":322.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.11971875,"end":324.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.76909375,"end":331.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.13096875,"end":340.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.51346875,"end":344.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.66909375,"end":348.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.73159375,"end":351.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.53721875,"end":356.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.98784375,"end":360.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.18971875,"end":364.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.54346875000005,"end":373.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.23034375000003,"end":373.91346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.91346875000005,"end":374.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.28471875,"end":374.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.97659375,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.02721875000003,"end":375.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.04409375,"end":375.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.06096875000003,"end":376.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.31409375000004,"end":383.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.78534375000004,"end":384.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.27034375000005,"end":386.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.19409375000004,"end":388.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.71284375000005,"end":392.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.21846875,"end":401.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.61784375,"end":406.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.25846875,"end":408.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.14846875,"end":417.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.95721875000004,"end":421.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.46721875000003,"end":434.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.51159375000003,"end":435.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.54909375000005,"end":439.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.38846875,"end":441.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.58221875000004,"end":442.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.49346875000003,"end":443.94471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.50159375000004,"end":446.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.11721875,"end":449.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.12534375,"end":449.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.27284375000005,"end":450.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.30659375000005,"end":450.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.24721875,"end":458.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.81159375000004,"end":458.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.86221875,"end":458.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.13221875000005,"end":459.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.18284375,"end":460.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.65909375,"end":464.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.95409375,"end":468.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.80159375000005,"end":471.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.75471875000005,"end":472.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.56034375,"end":474.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.69096875,"end":478.47096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.77034375000005,"end":481.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.03596875000005,"end":481.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.25096875,"end":484.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.17034375000003,"end":487.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.22471875,"end":504.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.68846875,"end":490.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.18534375,"end":497.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.23596875000004,"end":502.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.66971875,"end":502.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.00721875000005,"end":516.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.3047187500001,"end":517.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.8022187500001,"end":522.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.29096875,"end":529.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.70346875,"end":531.6103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.67346875,"end":542.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.8953437499999,"end":544.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.1147187500001,"end":544.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.1653437500001,"end":544.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.23284375,"end":544.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.2834687500001,"end":544.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.65471875,"end":544.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.8234687500001,"end":544.8403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.8403437500001,"end":544.8740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.8740937499999,"end":544.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.94159375,"end":544.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.9922187500001,"end":545.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.02596875,"end":553.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.8190937500001,"end":547.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.63221875,"end":554.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.0203437499999,"end":566.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.03721875,"end":557.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.74409375,"end":566.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.0772187499999,"end":568.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.09409375,"end":570.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.46909375,"end":573.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.3547187500001,"end":581.1215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.8472187500001,"end":600.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.6965937500001,"end":602.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.29534375,"end":605.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.1640937500001,"end":607.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.03721875,"end":613.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.65659375,"end":616.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.14096875,"end":619.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.4697187500001,"end":622.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.69721875,"end":625.08096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.861,"end":24.863,"text":"主席謝謝 麻煩請林部長部長好 本席在這邊也跟剛剛馬文君委員還有很多委員共同關心都一樣先講 我覺得很為我們外交部同仁報不平也為我們朝野委員在過去這段時間裡面"},{"start":26.923,"end":53.256,"text":"大有為的政府告訴我們是說萊豬一定要進口如果沒有進口的話會有設定這個障礙沒有辦法加入CPTPP2021年那時候陳吉仲 王美花都跳出來講是說這個是一個很嚴重的障礙好 通過之後從2021年到現在2026年這四年多很多外交場合跟很多我們外交部的同仁我們只要接見或者是說出去參訪"},{"start":55.257,"end":82.873,"text":"國際的議會的議員我們也都講啊外交部提供給我們委員的談餐也都講說拜託最後一定要寫一定要講請貴國政府支持我們中華民國加入CPTPP所以外交部我們委員不分朝野藍綠大家都希望能夠把握每一個機會發言甚至我剛剛也看到英國這兩天也有代表團來然後外交部長也有跟他們希望能夠加入CPTPP嘛"},{"start":83.96,"end":111.311,"text":"對 九個國會議員那結果CPTPP主要推動主責的單位是誰行政院經貿談判辦公室那行政院經貿談判辦公室居然有我們一位高階的文官 嚴慧心女士她在最後 其實她的辭職信看完之後你真的覺得是說她是保留她最後文官的尊嚴一個"},{"start":112.728,"end":136.176,"text":"高考及格在政府單位裡面做了幾十年的文官並且他的父親也是我們過去很資深的一個官結果到最後居然變成是說他要要辭職的時候他要把他的這些大白話給講出來然後講消極敷衍沒有具體的計畫沒有具體的時程外交部之前知道嗎"},{"start":138.086,"end":154.242,"text":"我們外交部該做的我們都全力以赴所以外交部之前也不知道說經貿辦事處到底在幹嘛我們只知道是說只要面對到每一個國際單位面對到各國代表來我們都要講CPTPP到最後好像變成是西反社士嘛"},{"start":155.438,"end":184.295,"text":"那但是外交部也不知道說經貿辦公室根本沒有具體的計畫經貿談判策略要有OTN所以看來部長你也不清楚嘛所以你也不用幫他們背書嘛但是看起來就是我覺得今天我一定要用這個機會再幫我們外交部同仁報部評應該主責負責的單位沒有具體的計畫沒有具體的時程沒有具體的成果敷衍消極然後我們其他人在前面衝"},{"start":185.967,"end":212.009,"text":"不覺得很莫名其妙嗎 政府還是被一體打部長我們外交部啊 比如說派三個次長啊到達澳大利亞 日本跟英國去交涉因為這三個國家最重要嘛之前的主席國是加拿大 我們也全力在溝通可是我剛剛講說因為上位的談判策略啊因為這不是一般的經貿談判 因為涉及到政治因為中國的因素所以這個時候怎麼樣去"},{"start":213.49,"end":240.898,"text":"所以我們只要講的是我們到目前為止都肯定我們外交部的同仁所以我講是說過去這四年我們朝野委員也都很努力你們給我們的談餐我幾乎都有留著每一次的最後一定都講尤其是我們日本的國會議員來最後一定都有一整頁寫說請拜託委員不分朝野藍綠都要跟日本的國會議員美國國會議員拜託他們支持中華民國加入CPTPP但是"},{"start":241.929,"end":261.883,"text":"降帥無能累死三軍阿阿外交部現在也被累死阿來啦 阿現在遇到一個奧克蘭三人車走去突圍阿現在講你這邊可以掌握的狀況我們是也有一些進展啦那當然大戰略還是要整體阿是啊那現在就是沒有戰略阿所以消極敷衍嘛來 部長現在講你可以掌握的狀況啦駐美代表"},{"start":264.79,"end":282.249,"text":"他2024年已經發生過一次爭議了那當時我記得外交國防委員會我們也有要求是說那他是不是回來這個每一年每半年這些代表其實也都有回國報告的狀況的時候能不能來外交國防委員會當時沒有讓他回來嘛"},{"start":282.91,"end":308.859,"text":"那到現在2026年 因為那個遲號剛好正在進行一些我想對美...那沒關係 我覺得部長 我很持平地來看我對這個駐美代表完全不認識但我覺得空穴不來風還有以我對於民進黨政府說實在的話我們國人也一定程度了解如果今天這個駐美代表再被爆出說霸凌再被爆出說換20個傭人的這些事件"},{"start":311.92,"end":340.075,"text":"如果說不是事實或說沒有事實基礎的話你們早就已經講說這個是中共的陰謀啦這是假訊息啦這是認知作戰啦但到目前為止沒有欸到目前為止沒有人講說這個不是事實欸你們只講說會再調查會再了解欸我覺得這很嚴重 為什麼部長我跟你很持平很客觀我們黨派不同但是很嚴重的是因為駐美代表代表我們中華民國"},{"start":341.564,"end":363.274,"text":"他就是最重要的一個溝通管道如果說他在那邊天高皇帝遠作威作福然後吃香喝辣我覺得美國人也沒有辦法接受啊怎麼會中華民國你們派來一個官員是這個樣子那你不要跟我講說什麼過去這個美國傭人不好找那如果這樣的話蕭美琴駐美代表以前有換20個傭人嗎"},{"start":365.592,"end":382.563,"text":"以前馬政府時代的時候最有名我們金補充代表有換20個傭人嗎沒有啊那一樣都是在北投那為什麼 因為那個都是網路跟媒體轉傳有待查證你看有待查證嘛你也不敢講不是假消息你也不敢講認知作戰嘛就是因為我太了解你們了嘛我們"},{"start":385.325,"end":406.01,"text":"知道是好事我們說不算如果說今天真的沒有任何的事實基礎的話早就府 院 黨 青鳥 測疫 網軍全部出來講這個是認真作戰 這個是假消息不要陷入中共的陷阱但在這一次沒有而已經被爆第二次"},{"start":407.344,"end":434.89,"text":"所以現在有媒體才講是說如果他現在沒有辦法短時間回來接受外交國防委員會接受立法院的質詢能不能用視訊能不能好好的請他也面對國內的媒體他自己出來否認自清反駁讓我們知道是說所有的外交同仁在國外也都是為我們中華民國努力捍衛而不是做威做福吃香喝辣有可能嗎"},{"start":437.608,"end":460.538,"text":"可不可以下一次 我想如果說可以的話 召委絕對不會反對我們下一次就馬上就排外交國防委員會可不可以用視訊的方式來跟駐美代表來去做一個了解行嗎這可能要根據立法委員行使法還有有關於相關的規定部長你做過立法委員你算是我們立法院的學長"},{"start":462.691,"end":481.289,"text":"你當時也是在野黨的委員如果說現在一個執政黨的駐美代表已經連兩次爆發這樣的事件那為什麼不是報駐日代表為什麼不是報駐泰代表為什麼不是報駐新代表那尤其美國又最重要"},{"start":482.338,"end":500.176,"text":"其實報告委員 其實網路傳的這幾件事情以前都報過了只是現在把它又放在一起了當然我們還是要去釐清我們也鼓勵正式的申訴如果不放心 我個人的心想我現在是很無奈的笑因為你這樣講是什麼 死豬不怕開水燙"},{"start":502.679,"end":531.122,"text":"了解 就已經報了 報第一次 大家重視2024年很重視 第二次 欸 第三次 欸 第四次啊沒關係啦 都報過了啦所以我成不成見也沒關係反正駐美代表天高皇帝遠啊那他想怎麼樣吃香喝辣那就我沒意見啊我部長都自己都在國內都不敢這樣子了結果一個駐美代表在那邊可以這樣然後傳的風風火火傳的真的就像是鉅細迷離也沒有辦法澄清也沒有辦法致親"},{"start":532.708,"end":541.874,"text":"我不要冤枉任何人啊但現在連讓他自己面對媒體面對國人說明說他沒有這樣的事情也都不敢也都不肯也都不願意嗎"},{"start":543.939,"end":566.416,"text":"不會說不願意啦應該是願意啦我想如果適當的方式人家外界的質疑說明那應該是要來說明部長你也很無奈嘛那方式我想就是說因為傳起來 那個也不是你的人嘛過去傳過啦當然有些是大家現在把它放在一起那我想委員或是有這個關切我們都應該要加以說明部長時間到但是我真的很與眾心長啦"},{"start":572.09,"end":580.877,"text":"講這麼多我只想強調的是外交部的同仁我對外交部的同仁我其實有多一份的尊重跟多一份的"},{"start":581.892,"end":605.057,"text":"包容是因為我國的外交處境都不容易但就正因為如此如果有任何人站在那麼重要的位置他可以在吃香喝辣可以這樣子用職務來霸凌然後只仗著說他是誰的人只仗著說他跟誰派系好然後誰都管不到我覺得這樣子真的是中華民國悲哀"},{"start":606.209,"end":616.639,"text":"我也不樂見這樣的狀況那我更不希望是說讓媒體報導說好像變成是外交部長管不動一個駐美代表因為那個駐美代表老闆根本不是外交部長部長真的加油啦謝謝好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168138","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168138","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106ce21f3343e0105dd4bd67b93b5004dc02afe627a357cd2d7fdcf26fffb41f74a55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝龍介","委員發言時間":"11:27:28 - 11:35:55","影片長度":"00:08:27","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:27:28+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:35:55+08:00","duration":507,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.353468750000001,"end":16.450343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.496593750000002,"end":19.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.33534375,"end":24.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.44471875,"end":27.452843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.992843750000002,"end":29.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.933468750000003,"end":32.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.73846875,"end":37.493468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.594718750000006,"end":39.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.73784375,"end":40.969718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.64471875,"end":42.893468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.45034375,"end":45.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.47534375,"end":48.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.63096875,"end":50.166593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.50409375,"end":52.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.35596875,"end":54.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.94221875,"end":59.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.970968750000004,"end":60.055343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.072218750000005,"end":61.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.164718750000006,"end":63.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.18971875,"end":65.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.09659375000001,"end":72.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.40346875,"end":76.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.82909375,"end":78.11159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.37721875000001,"end":82.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.49909375,"end":83.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.42284375,"end":85.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.02596875,"end":86.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.29159375,"end":90.54846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.13909375,"end":92.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.19784375,"end":95.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.64471875000001,"end":98.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.90159375,"end":101.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.85471875,"end":103.45784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.89659375000001,"end":104.52096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.99346875,"end":109.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.05596875,"end":112.70534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.73471875000001,"end":114.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.18596875,"end":119.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.96159375,"end":126.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.18096875,"end":120.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.37909375000001,"end":124.73721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.88471875,"end":126.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.96471875,"end":128.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.99846875000001,"end":127.23471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.75346875,"end":129.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.98534375,"end":137.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.11096875,"end":136.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.80284375000002,"end":138.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.23284375,"end":141.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.91596875000002,"end":146.15159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.57346875000002,"end":146.94471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.29909375,"end":148.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.27346875,"end":151.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.13784375,"end":156.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.59284375000001,"end":160.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.57534375,"end":163.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.43971875,"end":167.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.10596875000002,"end":169.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.63721875000002,"end":174.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.62346875,"end":178.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.57659375,"end":180.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.41596875000002,"end":190.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.19971875000002,"end":189.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.10659375,"end":197.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.72159375,"end":198.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.70034375,"end":201.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.10471875000002,"end":204.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.12971875000002,"end":205.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.05346875,"end":207.79596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.33596875,"end":210.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.56346875000003,"end":219.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.09784375,"end":221.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.49846875,"end":224.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.34596875000003,"end":229.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.12159375000002,"end":240.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.03971875000002,"end":248.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.70096875000002,"end":252.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.39221875,"end":258.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.48846875000004,"end":265.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.52534375,"end":265.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.48721875,"end":266.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.43221875,"end":268.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.54596875000004,"end":273.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.41846875000005,"end":281.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.48909375,"end":283.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.30721875,"end":289.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.65659375,"end":292.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.28909375,"end":293.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.09471875,"end":295.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.56284375,"end":297.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.94221875,"end":298.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.84909375,"end":301.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.64596875,"end":306.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.00409375000004,"end":307.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.07534375,"end":312.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.02846875,"end":315.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.96471875000003,"end":316.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.09971875,"end":321.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.09034375000005,"end":322.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.87909375000004,"end":325.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.07284375,"end":326.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.96721875000003,"end":327.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.84471875,"end":332.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.95784375,"end":335.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.65784375000004,"end":337.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.69534375,"end":340.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.19284375,"end":346.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.85846875000004,"end":349.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.22534375000004,"end":351.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.33034375,"end":352.81971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.05596875000003,"end":355.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.54471875,"end":363.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.80096875000004,"end":366.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.65721875,"end":367.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.65284375000005,"end":369.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.01534375,"end":371.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.16284375000004,"end":372.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.32721875000004,"end":374.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.39846875,"end":377.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.72721875,"end":387.80159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.37534375,"end":391.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.00346875,"end":397.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.45409375,"end":398.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.51284375,"end":400.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.87971875000005,"end":401.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.55034375,"end":410.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.40971875,"end":416.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.99534375,"end":417.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.96971875,"end":420.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.77534375000005,"end":424.11659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.66909375,"end":426.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.00221875000005,"end":431.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.79909375000005,"end":431.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.35159375,"end":435.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.43971875000005,"end":442.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.62846875,"end":443.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.97846875000005,"end":453.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.39096875,"end":451.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.88409375000003,"end":464.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.54909375000005,"end":465.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.23659375000005,"end":472.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.07096875,"end":485.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.20159375000003,"end":475.45034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.14909375,"end":494.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.24909375000004,"end":495.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.05909375000005,"end":495.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.17721875,"end":498.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.58596875,"end":499.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.65346875000006,"end":499.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.08784375000005,"end":500.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.71221875000003,"end":503.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.15471875000003,"end":507.42846875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.129,"end":24.1,"text":"有請謝龍介委員質詢主席我請保證有請部長上備訊台保證一二"},{"start":25.712,"end":40.246,"text":"請教,這個老師越來越會,你跟這個侃公教退休金有關嗎?陳佩儀說沒有啦,我相信你教書出身的,你有很多東北"},{"start":41.684,"end":52.173,"text":"你的同僚都有這個感受這是一個事實但是這已經過去的事情就是說以前我們總有一條七千多億到一條九千億說未來災情會很困難所以請大家共體時間來檢驗一些體育金運動機器也同意"},{"start":66.204,"end":77.494,"text":"結果不知道現在變三成了,民進黨說他接種了不錯,災情越來越好,一檔比一檔好結果同期時間,台北郵件的角度都不一樣所以這點是很重要的原因所以今天修法,你如果拿不出對策,他們會說種的不白,聽到的料到流培,那是不好的,要對症下藥"},{"start":93.497,"end":110.976,"text":"當受治療比喻擁護老師基本上對不上溫暖又不能退休又沒辦法有保障什麼都要做老師回到同期時的你現在的你跟同期時的你現在的你不可能再做老師了"},{"start":113.797,"end":122.942,"text":"跟委員報告,我真的客人比較浪漫,比較熱情,我對高雄一直都有興趣不好意思,不好意思,不好意思,沒有我今天不站在這裡啦,說實在,沒有關係,這個老師吃不飽沒關係就對了,沒有關係"},{"start":130.126,"end":141.27,"text":"因為我不是吃不飽,因為我們現在就是說,我們對老師當然要如何提升他的一些服務代表我看你剛才的報告,靠靠什麼什麼都AI,難怪AI的立委一直問你,我如果是潘石居跟董,對不對越說越久,你這個AI如果沒電就會害了"},{"start":153.206,"end":159.609,"text":"台灣的電力 河河山重啟這是正確的你的AI講那些 我來問問看我企劃來請問你對於中華民國教育部對學生所規劃的AI學習課程有什麼看法來"},{"start":182.552,"end":201.48,"text":"他說我先用實際這個政策實際在教什麼 我的評價是優點跟問題我幫你評價優點 跟總結來回答第一 教育部目前AI課程在教什麼 我來重點拆解不錯耶 他說大致可以分三層 看你們會不會對"},{"start":207.13,"end":220.646,"text":"基礎成AI素養 從小學為主認識AI是什麼 怎麼運作理解AI在生活中的應用 學習判斷譬如用AI做語言學習 寫作輔助練習辨識AI產生的"},{"start":225.39,"end":251.881,"text":"不是工程師也要懂AI啦這是你的核心目標第二個 應用層就是跨域加上問題解決的課程核心這是你們的規則裡面教育部強調學生要用AI處理真實問題培養解決問題跟跨域能力第三 就是進階層專業的AI課程大概就是高中大學"},{"start":253.602,"end":272.801,"text":"課程 程式設計 機器學習 自然語言處理 跨校AI課程 甚至可以拿證書第四 教學上的一個關鍵改變好 第二 現在Chart DVD說了 我對這套AI課程的看法"},{"start":274.925,"end":298.143,"text":"優點我認為做得不錯是課程設計是未來導向而不是工具導向所以給你額外的啦但是台灣課程在做的是理解AI 應用AI批判AI啦這對你來講是比較成熟跨域跨域的部分設計是正確方向再來現在他說你的問題在哪裡"},{"start":303.68,"end":331.585,"text":"第一 課程理念很好 但是很難教要會AI 要會設計問題要會引導討論 現實不是每個老師都準備好了我現在要大家問的呢第二 學生容易學到表面使用 不是深度理解"},{"start":333.001,"end":355.518,"text":"譬如會用AI寫報告 但不知道AI怎麼錯了這是你現在面臨的問題如果沒有設計好 學生會變成AI操作員 而不是思考者我感覺不中 他把你寫得這麼有道理第三 評量方式跟不上你的課程"},{"start":357.848,"end":369.037,"text":"現在的課程在教創造力問題解決但是考試還是標準答案跟背誦這會導致一個矛盾課堂一套 考試又是另外一套"},{"start":370.069,"end":389.886,"text":"哇 差這麼多 第四 課程可能會過度樂觀AI目前很多課程AI很好用 AI幫助學習但比較少強調它的偏誤跟幻覺以及過度依賴 會讓學生低估了風險他給你一個比較直接的結論"},{"start":392.202,"end":417.232,"text":"這套AI課程在理念上是先進的但在學習深度上有相當的風險講白一點教學方向教對方向就是跨域加素養加應用但不一定學得深容易流於工具使用阿伯阿姨有說如果你叫他幫你升級他會有三件事你自己去問AI"},{"start":419.025,"end":422.577,"text":"你覺得他在台北,我剛才跟你說,你覺得現在的情況有接近嗎?"},{"start":426.034,"end":433.721,"text":"謝謝委員,真的這個GPT真的很厲害因為我們現在面臨的挑戰,老師我們目前有參加過AI的研習,中間5萬人但是我們所有的老師20萬人我再給你一個建議,因為我們現在的問題大家都會去問AI"},{"start":449.716,"end":472.327,"text":"你現在課程怎麼樣啊 那我建議你再多問幾個啦多問幾個平台 綜合這些答案然後針對你現在對AI所提出來的課程給各級學校 大家共同 我覺得他講得很客觀你的問題跟你的優點都有了 然後改進方向也有了"},{"start":473.477,"end":497.832,"text":"這就是你剛才說他厲害嘛但是你必須要接納他嘛如果你不接納他你只想當一個操作者最後你就會像他剛剛講的一樣嘛不管部長也好委員也好學生也好我們都要自己去思考我們要運用AI不是只把他當成工具這樣好不好是好 謝謝我看他們委員都完全一定的感謝委員提起好"},{"start":501.015,"end":507.226,"text":"我们也特别谢谢台南点子网谢龙介委员的AI质询请部长回座"}]}},{"id":"168137","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168137","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106ce5c86d86ac46587c811c6ac3ddeb80e0afe627a357cd2d7faa0123905ad953be5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"11:24:14 - 11:34:16","影片長度":"00:10:02","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林沛祥等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林德福等31人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員涂權吉等23人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員許宇甄等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員黃健豪等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員羅智強等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員游顥等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員賴士葆等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員羅明才等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法繼承編施行法增訂第十二條條文草案」案。\n【4月1日及2日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T11:24:14+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T11:34:16+08:00","duration":602,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-5-36-5"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.265968750000003,"end":14.880968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.99909375,"end":16.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.36596875,"end":16.922843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.024093750000002,"end":18.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.47096875,"end":19.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.48784375,"end":19.926593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.926593750000002,"end":43.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.94346875,"end":19.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.159093750000004,"end":89.77221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.31221875,"end":112.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.74659375,"end":92.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.03034375,"end":128.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.70284375,"end":131.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.26784375,"end":133.54596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.44909375,"end":132.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.20846875,"end":142.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.27909375000002,"end":140.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.65846875,"end":156.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.64096875,"end":147.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.96096875,"end":151.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.49659375000002,"end":153.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.93471875,"end":164.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.78596875000002,"end":196.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.59096875,"end":204.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.23534375000003,"end":205.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.28596875000002,"end":211.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.99784375000002,"end":217.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.73971875,"end":217.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.35971875,"end":218.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.42721875,"end":225.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.83096875,"end":230.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.30721875,"end":238.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.88096875000002,"end":232.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.79534375000003,"end":238.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.94721875000002,"end":242.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.89221875,"end":240.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.54596875000001,"end":247.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.90784375,"end":259.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.34596875000003,"end":252.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.04096875,"end":261.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.17159375,"end":273.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.91221875,"end":277.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.32096875,"end":282.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.12596875,"end":305.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.35034375000004,"end":313.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.90221875000003,"end":312.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.07909375,"end":313.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.18034375,"end":319.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.79971875,"end":322.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.47846875000005,"end":328.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.81159375000004,"end":324.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.03034375000004,"end":340.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.06221875,"end":358.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.97909375,"end":361.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.45971875000004,"end":375.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.46159375,"end":378.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.24596875000003,"end":391.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.75471875000005,"end":427.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.95346875,"end":416.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.21909375,"end":416.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.96409375,"end":444.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.92346875000004,"end":449.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.13784375,"end":458.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.57971875000004,"end":473.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.67409375000005,"end":496.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.70784375000005,"end":475.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.82096875,"end":481.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.70471875000004,"end":505.40346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.40346875000006,"end":514.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.8915937500001,"end":525.3328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.0772187499999,"end":514.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.85346875,"end":514.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.81409375,"end":535.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.0747187500001,"end":530.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.8797187499999,"end":549.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.1997187500001,"end":541.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.18596875,"end":547.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.39659375,"end":552.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.38346875,"end":570.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.51159375,"end":575.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.1103437500001,"end":572.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.6415937500001,"end":601.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.99159375,"end":603.24471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.815,"end":18.152,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請法務部黃次長及司法院中廳長好 請次長還有廳長我也好政策好"},{"start":24.204,"end":43.32,"text":"今天我們要討論的就是有關民法第1223條的這個有關特留份的問題那因為這一條法令是大概在民國大概18、19年制定的以今天的社會的結構跟這個親屬互動還有財產的方式其實已經"},{"start":44.221,"end":62.73,"text":"早就跟當年不同了這已經將近快一百年前的這樣子的一個法令那所以今天其實我們很多委員都有提出相關的修法版本就希望說因應現在的一個我們現在的社會的一個狀況因為其實大部分我們現在的人大概都是成年之後大概兄弟姊妹就各自經濟獨立"},{"start":64.051,"end":88.628,"text":"那彼此互為互養照顧的狀況其實不多所以我們今天特別提出來這樣子一個這個條文的修正草案那當然我想我們看到就是司法院的書面意見最後寫得很清楚就是無不同意見那請問一下鐘廷長所以針對這個部分司法院對於這個刪除方向是不是認為沒有問題"},{"start":90.696,"end":106.453,"text":"報告員 是的好 謝謝那另外呢 我再請教一下黃證詞就是司法院的報告剛寫的是無不同意見但是你們法務部一方面寫競表贊同但又寫說要考量不同的個案情況"},{"start":107.894,"end":128.21,"text":"適用的公平性,要採取配套的措施比較周全,是這樣嗎?對,基本上我們對這個三族兄弟組織特別部門的方向贊同這個是跟我們要增加相關的配套,這是不衝突的在這個贊存的架構下,我們主張另外要增加一條或加兩條或三條的這個相關的配套"},{"start":128.957,"end":150.747,"text":"對 那這相關的配套你們已經研擬出來了是嗎沒有 目前還在開會因為其實這個法條也已經將近一百年那針對這個部分而且時空背景還有整個環境其實已經不同那為什麼到現在還沒有辦法研擬出來跟我們報告因為我們一百零五年其實提出相關的版本當時的立法方向是就兄弟姐妹特留份的部分是降低他的特留份"},{"start":151.187,"end":169.317,"text":"現在兄弟姐妹的特留份是三分之一當時提案是降到四分之一因為還有兄弟姐妹當時還保有一點點的特留份所以不會跟今天完全刪除它是完全不同的立法方向但是這次你可以看一下就是依據司法院的統計資料我們可以看到有關遺囑訴訟已經有105年的1364件增加到"},{"start":174.879,"end":194.984,"text":"114年的2864件那確實我們也看到很多這個遺產的糾紛都是兄弟姐妹之間在做這樣子的一個徵送那因為你們現在要採議題式的三階段修法那請問一下就如果這個議題式的三階段修法是你們第一次研修小組會議的結論是嗎"},{"start":197.805,"end":225.758,"text":"對 這個是我們第一件修法就是把今天大家討論的特留份先拿出來抽出來單獨先立法所以說今天兩位的話到底針對這個部分是不是都同意這個刪除的方向是正確的基本上我們報告也講了刪除兄弟有沒有特留份的這個立法方向本部是贊成的只是要配套那既然自己已經贊成 包括廳長這邊司法院也沒有意見嘛那是不是今天我們就可以讓這個法案能夠推進呢"},{"start":227.501,"end":247.458,"text":"我們還是認為要有配套的措施配套的措施什麼時候可以引領出來我們希望這個會期結束之前能提出法案的預告這個會期結束之前還要一段時間我們現在已經開過一次專家會議正準備四月中開第二次四月中已經四月了"},{"start":247.978,"end":271.144,"text":"我們還是希望說針對這個部分其實這個是一個相對單純的法條我們還是希望能夠因應現在實現這個真正被繼承人的遺囑自由的這樣子的一個方向可以嗎這個方向我們是贊同OK好謝謝那另外再請教一下廳長您可以請回廳長可以請回我現在要請教的是這個黃政次就是有關這個房屋部在3月16號高調宣布要聯合這個"},{"start":274.545,"end":290.174,"text":"這個延長塑膠袋的囤貨那當時你們也開了一個記者會說要開始這個你們稽查的重點那這樣的一個方向不是就在告訴那些囤貨的黑心商人趕快來趕快把這過場我要來稽查了"},{"start":292.515,"end":310.499,"text":"會不會有這樣的問題因為現在看起來的話確實這個問題還蠻嚴重而且接下來有可能塑膠和飲料杯都可能斷貨所以這個方向是不是當時你們其實做法是有待商議的各位報告其實我們也沒有公布是要去查哪一家嘛全國這麼多的這個業者不會有預先"},{"start":313.42,"end":338.973,"text":"對你們有公佈要稽查哪一家可是我就是知道你們要開始稽查啦所以真正要囤貨的商人就趕快把貨藏起來就好了各位報告他本來如果有涉及犯罪違法本來就不應該跟我們查不查當然當然所以現在有查到嗎你們現在有查到那個嗎有囤貨的狀況嗎因為因為他是昨天才開始聯合稽查所以相關相關主管機關因為聯合稽查他是主管機關根據他本身的業管去做聯合稽查所以相關的主管機關他會進行相關的盤整"},{"start":340.134,"end":357.034,"text":"對 因為針對這個部分的話其實法務部如果再不拿出鐵碗的話接下來我剛剛講的就是塑膠和飲料杯都有可能斷貨所以因為現在看起來中東的戰爭還沒有結束的一個跡象嘛所以這個塑膠通膨可能會壓垮這個基層的攤商那請問這個次長你這邊"},{"start":359.136,"end":375.745,"text":"你們要怎麼來去這個解決這個問題呢跟委員報告就是說我們除了這個剛剛委員提到的聯合稽查小組啟動之外我們還請台高檢署如果涉及犯罪的話台高檢署他有一個這個關於這個打擊民生犯罪的平台他會要求所屬的地檢署"},{"start":376.525,"end":395.524,"text":"也要成立這個打擊犯罪比賽犯罪的平台現在這幾天全國各地檢署已經如我如獨的召集轄區內的所有跟這一個民生物資有關係的夜館的居住啊進行相關的情緒的分享或進行相關查處的一些研議對 所以說也希望政策這邊喔一定 我們一定要好好的來去嚴格的這個稽查"},{"start":397.046,"end":411.422,"text":"讓這樣子的一個塑膠袋之亂不至於能夠擴展要不然現在大家都開始驚慌尤其是這個我們的小吃店的話幾乎都為了這個有的塑膠袋已經漲了一倍以上了那接下來還有可能面臨斷貨的問題所以這請法務部一定要嚴格的來去這個檢查"},{"start":416.388,"end":442.457,"text":"那另外再請教您有關就是新北市土城的圍棋老師猥褻12名兒童案那因為這個部分其實我們現在其實一直強調要減速作業但是呢這個減速作業的這個程序還是耗時過長在90年事辦的初期大概只需要兩個小時可是現在實務上進入減速作業的案件卻大幅增加到六個小時請問為什麼要會增加這麼多時間"},{"start":445.258,"end":473.184,"text":"呃 各位報告那減速當然是我們的政策方向啦但每一個個案不一樣他這個小朋友的狀況也不一樣他只要剛花這麼多小時在詢問這個被害人一定是個案上有他的理由你當天的狀況其實他從9月1號到隔天凌晨是歷經13個小時喔那這樣對一個這個被害的這個這個學生他其實生理的心理的煎熬其實都非常的大所以這根本完全違反我們這個減速作業的初衷嘛"},{"start":475.432,"end":494.171,"text":"跟委員報告檢數是避免重複的多不同的人進行詢問那這個是檢察官他的問他的詢問但是檢察官詢問被害人他時間是不是過長這一點基本上檢察官他個人他有一定的理由但我也贊成這個委員所提的因為他畢竟被害的小朋友時間能不能"},{"start":494.571,"end":513.452,"text":"尤其是這一件的話當時在這個家長要培訓還拒絕家長培訓的狀況請問一下檢察官可以這樣剝奪家長的陪同權嗎當然陪同權原則上是可以但是他法律上有規定就是說檢察官在特定的狀況之下特定要件之下他是可以不讓他在場的"},{"start":514.113,"end":535.228,"text":"可是檢察官是為了他自己辦案的一個方便結果忽視了保護我們這個真正受害的這些孩童那請問一下這個方向正是您認同這個邏輯嗎原則上當然小朋友我們要這樣他個陪同或可靠信賴人在場但檢察官他都有清楚知道這個規定他還會做這種決定表示他個案上的確有他的考慮"},{"start":535.988,"end":552.398,"text":"那你不能說個案上有這樣的考慮其實我現在講的是通盤的問題就是說對於孩童來說事實上他最信任的就是家人那為什麼家人不能陪伴在旁邊我覺得針對這個案子我們覺得非常的匪夷所思啊所以這個條文設計上原則上是讓他陪童這檢察官也清楚的知道"},{"start":552.778,"end":571.485,"text":"對 所以說針對這部分檢察官他在這方面的真的在這個執法上是不是有過當那所以我覺得這個部分法務部應該也要特別去了解讓我們所有的這個被害的學童不至於說在面對這樣子的一個冗長的一個宣誓過程中還要遭受到這樣的壓力又沒有親人陪伴在這這個部分因為監察院他事實上有進行調查啦"},{"start":572.625,"end":599.342,"text":"對那相關我們也相關的這個對還有針對他針對這個因為他這次還有拍攝性影像嘛所以針對這個數位這個性暴力的這個起訴居然還沒有懲罰檢查官居然還沒有起訴這個兒少性剝削條例的第36條所以這個檢查官其實基本上有很多地方我們都覺得有很大的一個問題啊所以說可能請法務部也要了解也要了解一下狀況好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168179","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168179","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c561d3e09365663ef7570c8d4d2e9dc78b88717e2a81a321e1677080d570f7ede5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"14:04:28 - 14:12:33","影片長度":"00:08:05","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T14:04:28+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T14:12:33+08:00","duration":485,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.27971875,"end":2.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.14034375,"end":2.2415937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.231593750000002,"end":15.724718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.34909375,"end":17.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.96909375,"end":20.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.56784375,"end":21.293468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.14971875,"end":30.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.70971875,"end":35.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.400968750000004,"end":43.416593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.00721875,"end":46.150343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.977218750000006,"end":49.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.77846875,"end":51.398468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.91284375,"end":56.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.540968750000005,"end":63.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.00409375000001,"end":66.33284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.72096875,"end":72.64409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.04909375,"end":85.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.92471875000001,"end":90.34596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.97034375000001,"end":97.50096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.26034375,"end":99.47534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.38659375,"end":102.42846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.08659375,"end":104.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.72346875000001,"end":106.56284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.66409375,"end":108.95909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.15284375,"end":112.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.66721875,"end":114.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.74721875,"end":115.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.74284375,"end":117.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.27846875,"end":122.44221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.94846875,"end":125.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.78346875000001,"end":130.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.14971875,"end":146.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.65784375,"end":161.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.14096875,"end":160.54596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.22096875,"end":166.72221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.16096875000002,"end":172.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.52721875,"end":174.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.67034375,"end":178.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.42909375000002,"end":208.52159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.09534375,"end":209.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.33971875,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.88346875000002,"end":215.69346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.99721875,"end":216.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.49909375000001,"end":218.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.08534375000002,"end":222.46034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.08471875,"end":226.27409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.79721875,"end":232.14659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.02471875,"end":229.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.28159375,"end":274.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.26221875000005,"end":278.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.36284375,"end":293.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.63471875000005,"end":296.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.57534375,"end":297.75659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.49909375000004,"end":300.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.60846875000004,"end":304.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.58221875000004,"end":307.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.28659375,"end":309.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.18096875000003,"end":317.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.75471875,"end":310.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.04534375000003,"end":313.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.20096875,"end":316.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.61846875000003,"end":318.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.05284375,"end":320.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.14534375,"end":322.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.47846875000005,"end":323.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.94659375000003,"end":325.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.12346875000003,"end":327.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.58721875000003,"end":330.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.16909375,"end":342.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.61034375,"end":342.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.82971875000004,"end":345.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.98534375,"end":355.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.49846875000003,"end":358.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.86096875000004,"end":361.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.07971875000004,"end":365.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.61096875000004,"end":367.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.45034375,"end":370.11659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.52159375,"end":371.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.60159375,"end":378.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.63846875,"end":378.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.72284375000004,"end":378.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.80721875,"end":378.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.82409375000003,"end":378.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.02221875000004,"end":381.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.92909375000005,"end":384.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.96659375,"end":388.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.99971875,"end":391.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.12159375000005,"end":396.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.96471875000003,"end":402.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.73596875000004,"end":404.64284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.09846875000005,"end":406.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.44409375000004,"end":408.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.99659375000005,"end":411.00471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.19034375,"end":411.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.88221875000005,"end":416.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.33284375000005,"end":418.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.30721875,"end":422.36159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.81721875000005,"end":425.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.63096875,"end":428.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.77409375,"end":430.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.01846875,"end":437.16096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.81909375000004,"end":438.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.18596875000003,"end":440.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.99159375000005,"end":441.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.05909375000005,"end":442.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.59471875,"end":442.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.98284375000003,"end":443.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.03346875000005,"end":459.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.16846875000005,"end":443.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.60659375,"end":447.64034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.38534375,"end":459.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.12784375,"end":460.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.19096875,"end":462.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.82784375000006,"end":463.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.42659375000005,"end":470.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.02909375,"end":471.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.06284375,"end":471.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.09659375,"end":471.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.11346875000004,"end":471.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.34971875,"end":471.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.38346875,"end":472.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.12596875,"end":472.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.24409375000005,"end":472.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.52659375,"end":475.45034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.45034375000006,"end":475.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.68659375000004,"end":475.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.49659375000005,"end":483.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.85846875000004,"end":483.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.63471875000005,"end":485.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.03096875000006,"end":486.97596875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.526,"end":15.088,"text":"主席 各位有請勞動部還有言明會請陳社長 請羅組長政務委員好"},{"start":24.007,"end":35.856,"text":"這個根據113年度原住民族就業狀況調查這個原住民在營建工程業佔了18.24%營造業14.26%總共就是三十幾32.50%所以也就是說我們有三分之一的就業是在這個營建跟製造業"},{"start":53.936,"end":54.641,"text":"那根據就說剛剛已經講過了"},{"start":57.537,"end":82.012,"text":"好 我們看看我們這個衛福部的一個勞動部勞動部的一個這個2025年跟2024年重大職災死亡人數這一個統計雖然2025比2024少了但是少的還是很有限總共在2025年還是有251件的"},{"start":86.948,"end":108.124,"text":"這個重大之災的一個死亡人數當然這個受傷的還沒有在裡面所以要請這個那個勞動部針對這個2025年2025年原住民到底多少我們先分兩個先分兩個部分中華民國的國民"},{"start":113.717,"end":128.59,"text":"多少然後外籍勞工多少分兩個部分然後再從中華民國國民裡面原住民占多少的人數這個在2025年的部分現在有數據了嗎"},{"start":131.549,"end":158.765,"text":"根文報告 現在手邊的數字是我們在原住民勞工朋友們的部分是2025年嗎2025年的部分 植栽死亡的件數有10人然後它的原住民的植栽遷人率是3.267死亡遷人率是0.044那比113年略有下降但是無論如何我們都不樂見任何植栽的發生"},{"start":160.726,"end":164.568,"text":"統計的時候再補充之後 包含受傷的部分 這樣就會更完整我們看勞動部的報告裡面特別提到"},{"start":180.918,"end":206.127,"text":"這個114年營造業死亡人數105人佔42%蠻高的然後相關的這個墜落致死亡高達67%而且是民間工程的比例超過7成而且死亡人數還致造業死亡人數還增加了增加了7人共63人所以這個都是需要繼續去加強防範"},{"start":211.383,"end":231.179,"text":"這個早期沒有話說但是現在相關的技術、科技各方面工程的那個技術或是那個都一直很先進的結果還是一樣這麼多這個都是需要去加強去檢討"},{"start":234.481,"end":247.33,"text":"在營造業的特性時常比較容易有分包轉包或者是協同公進的相應部分這部分謝謝大院的支持我們在職安法這一次的修正也把這部分列為一個重點"},{"start":248.591,"end":274.286,"text":"會去加強相應的施工的指揮協調還有相應的處理那至於製造業的部分可能跟他的不同的工作製程會有一定的關聯我們治安署會分析每一個個案的相關案件的成因然後針對相應的類型去對治安衛的部分如何去降災防災減災的部分再跟相關的工學會持續去做密切的合作"},{"start":275.413,"end":304.705,"text":"剛剛你有提到 確實是一個問題會造成這些植栽的幾戶或是包括它有投保的比如說營造業它有投保的保險公司的認定就很多因為我們都會發生災害的會發生植栽的都是第一線的工人而這些第一線的工人絕大部分都不是"},{"start":306.956,"end":329.848,"text":"第一線的承包商的功能所以以前他缺乏相關職安位的安全衛生的督導和協調都是大包、中包、小包勞工頭在勞工所以這個都是一個需要加強的部分我們看延命會的報告"},{"start":331.626,"end":341.673,"text":"這裡面提到這個確實是原住民的植栽的人數確實是比較高了我們看這個嚴明會的報告裡面提到"},{"start":343.355,"end":359.264,"text":"這個原住民族工作近年收入近年逐漸成長108年到起原住民族有酬就業者每人每月主要工作平均收入突破3萬元且逐年增加至113年已達3萬5千"},{"start":364.317,"end":390.085,"text":"304年水準這個處長是這個數字你認為很好嗎是有改善但是還不夠我們都還有那個改善的空間我覺得還有很多努力的空間這個距離勞工的平均薪資最起碼差一萬塊是的你看台灣勞工的薪資狀況"},{"start":393.062,"end":417.852,"text":"2024年基本工資兩萬七千四百多然後這個每人每月經常性薪資平均是四萬六千四百五十這是2024年2025年基本工資兩萬八千多所以我們這個三萬出頭只是比基本工資多一點點而已如果要跟這個"},{"start":419.849,"end":436.314,"text":"這個平均勞工的平均薪資2025年是47709少了1萬多了所以這個部分都是這不僅是人民會勞動部都是要去加強怎麼樣能夠"},{"start":438.181,"end":463.565,"text":"提升我們的事實上都是勞力的委員報告一下因為我們現在新一起的原住民住金決議方案當中已經有邀請六七個部會包含勞動部在內那我們過去都是從就業優先現在是轉為薪資提升那剛剛委員在講的那個差一萬塊的那個差距其實我們都有在掌握主要問題就是我們都是"},{"start":465.458,"end":485.233,"text":"第一包第二包第三包然後公投下面的就是這樣就是結構然後有有很多都沒有勞保啊對所以問題重重所以真的是要請勞動部跟研民會要加油好好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝曾天才委員的資訊接下來請"}]}},{"id":"168178","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168178","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c8abfd57a10bc281ae62ad2ff7c694815b88717e2a81a321e5f9ce4f0ed6650c55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"13:25:19 - 13:32:11","影片長度":"00:06:52","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:25:19+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:32:11+08:00","duration":412,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.2790937499999995,"end":10.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.62034375,"end":8.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.03784375,"end":11.708468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.910343750000003,"end":16.500968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.500968750000002,"end":27.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.144718750000003,"end":33.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.86534375,"end":40.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.01159375,"end":76.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.16284375,"end":47.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.603468750000005,"end":62.99159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.03596875000001,"end":85.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.57034375,"end":96.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.20159375,"end":101.34846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.43284375,"end":118.22346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.51034375,"end":127.30221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.53846875,"end":141.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.94971875000002,"end":142.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.11846875,"end":145.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.78034375000001,"end":152.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.68659375000001,"end":181.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.70846875,"end":173.94471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.84221875,"end":187.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.27159375000002,"end":194.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.54471875000002,"end":213.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.75284375,"end":217.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.61721875,"end":221.53221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.03846875000002,"end":222.81471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.38846875000002,"end":223.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.41784375,"end":224.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.43034375000002,"end":226.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.57784375000003,"end":228.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.00784375,"end":231.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.99471875,"end":232.50096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.61909375000002,"end":241.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.63034375,"end":243.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.41471875000002,"end":260.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.95221875000004,"end":293.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.82284375,"end":281.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.31596875,"end":282.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.28471875,"end":294.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.76534375,"end":296.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.98034375000003,"end":311.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.55659375000005,"end":312.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.06221875,"end":313.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.36596875000004,"end":315.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.70721875000004,"end":317.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.55096875000004,"end":317.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.37784375,"end":337.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.81784375,"end":351.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.26721875000004,"end":362.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.09659375,"end":373.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.52096875,"end":376.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.30534375,"end":378.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.82409375000003,"end":385.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.97909375,"end":395.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.59784375000004,"end":396.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.84659375,"end":401.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.04409375,"end":406.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.71846875,"end":406.75221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.75221875000005,"end":406.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.80284375,"end":406.85346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.85346875000005,"end":407.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.29221875,"end":410.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.31284375,"end":410.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.07221875000005,"end":412.06784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.295,"end":9.7,"text":"好 謝謝部長我請我們交通部部長以及觀光署署長好 請總部長 請陳署長"},{"start":15.97,"end":39.919,"text":"委員好好部長好署長好請教一下就是前一陣子發生在呂一潭花蓮呂一潭的一個溺水事件大家都覺得非常的這個難過那有關於這個他的管轄權責的這個分配我想請問一下署長我們是不是已經有做了一些相關的釐清權責的部分"},{"start":43.315,"end":70.499,"text":"是 因為我覺得上次那個事情真的是也非常遺憾然後因為我們現在的觀光的部分因為會很多新的有觀光的體驗的部分那這次的狀況是像有動力船動力船那塊是在航港局這邊來處理那三個以下的部分跟非動力船是航港局授權各地方政府用資質條例的方式來做相關的管理"},{"start":71.039,"end":81.291,"text":"那因為觀光署的縱管處負責的是鯉魚潭的管理所以鯉魚潭是由觀光署來做觀光署縱管處來做管理還有訂定相關的管理規則"},{"start":86.237,"end":101.08,"text":"比如说到我们这边来那我们需要是业者到到领域团来经营的时候当然应该需要具备什么样的条件比如说要符合商单然后呢比如说要投保等等这些是由关公署这边来负责要求"},{"start":101.479,"end":118.027,"text":"好所以發生這件遺憾的事件我們將來有關於他的相關的管理規則包含有些業者他已經違反相關的規定要怎麼樣停業那也都是應該是由我們觀光署來訂定是吧"},{"start":120.328,"end":141.742,"text":"基本上因為公務署在場面經營上面有兩件事情是必須負責的因為第一個是遊客的安全那遊客的安全在現在目前所有當時在整個旅遊台裡面經營的這些業者他目前沒有辦法提出被誰檢驗過他的船隻的安全上面的檢驗目前現在是沒有的"},{"start":142.222,"end":145.124,"text":"我肯定不管中央地方都以負責任的態度因為不要發生遺憾的事情最後變成用踢皮球的方式至於鋁魚潭的管理的權責在這邊也已經相當的釐清"},{"start":164.973,"end":193.313,"text":"由觀光署眾管處來做負責好謝謝那我請那個署長先請回部長請教一件事情我覺得這也很重要是前不久發生一件事情就是我們中華電信百分之百投資的中華投資這個是算是中華電一孫公司結果他的董事長叫做丁彥志那麼他去擔任一家叫聖玉科技公司的獨董"},{"start":194.613,"end":211.281,"text":"讀懂但是這家生育科技呢它的第一大客戶剛剛好就是中華電信佔它的這個比重啊非常非常的大中華電信就是這一家公司的第一大客戶好啦 所以外界就認為啊"},{"start":212.401,"end":222.409,"text":"怎麼會有這樣子啊中華電信成為一家公司的最大客戶然後呢他的孫公司的董事長去做人家讀董這是怎麼樣是當顧問嗎還是去當門審當然所以就因為這樣的事情"},{"start":232.782,"end":260.313,"text":"又遭到外界的質疑所以短短五天這位丁業智董事長就辭去了獨董的職務可這件事情就這樣了了嗎就我們的國營事業的子公司孫公司可以這樣去當他的母公司最大客戶的獨董被外界認為是門神嗎所以我想請問一下部長對這件事情你們的處理是什麼"},{"start":261.293,"end":282.298,"text":"報告委員第一方面是法令上行不行法規上行不行有沒有限制他去擔任這個獨董那第二是媒體所寫的跟委員剛剛所質疑的也沒有錯觀感的問題社會認為你這樣去擔任這樣子的獨董適不適合那如果第一項在法令上在法令上不行的話"},{"start":282.958,"end":311.524,"text":"那當然我們就得追究那第二如果觀感上不好的話那我們也希望他可以離開這樣子的獨董的職位這大概就是我們交通部的態度所以你們就這樣了掉了就這樣了了這個部分請中華電信內部去做了解就是說第一法令上行不行如果法令上不行那當然要有另外的處置法令上不行他卻又去擔任但第二個可能性是法令上可能但是觀感上的問題這位是簡董事長嗎"},{"start":313.28,"end":337.018,"text":"總經理總經理 董事長有來嗎沒有來好那董事長他還後來跟他們去就是吃飯啊之類的也被外界在做質疑我認為吃飯不是說完全不能吃飯因為當然你吃飯的內容是些什麼東西但是剛才如果按照部長講的這部長就有點在獲悉你啦"},{"start":337.859,"end":361.842,"text":"好 所以因為呢 在法律上沒有然後呢 他只要吃掉獨董就好了所以他當了五天獨董 就跑掉了就是因為外界觀感不好 大家會有利益迴避的原則可是丁智 丁彥智 丁彥智不就是你們所派任的嗎我剛講 他是中華投資可是中華電信百分之百去投資的公司"},{"start":363.154,"end":373.389,"text":"如果這樣的話 所有國營事業 像看台電有多少客戶中鋼有多少客戶 中油有多少客戶結果他的子公司 孫公司都可以去當讀懂一魚兩吃"},{"start":377.538,"end":406.918,"text":"這很難看因為這種是放諸四海皆准的一個原則我希望我在這邊做具體的建議不是只是五天內請辭很難看嘛你也承認這個違背社會觀感但是我覺得應該該處理就要處理啊好不好那我覺得丁彥志還適合擔任這個董事長的職務嗎也許交通部應該跟中華電信做一個徹底的檢討好不好"},{"start":407.41,"end":409.04,"text":"是 我們作為大股東 我們會跟中華電信來討論這個議題"}]}},{"id":"168177","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168177","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c561d3e09365663efe62ad2ff7c694815b88717e2a81a321e5f9ce4f0ed6650c55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"13:17:39 - 13:24:58","影片長度":"00:07:19","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:17:39+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:24:58+08:00","duration":439,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.228468750000001,"end":6.207218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.730343750000001,"end":7.894718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.114093750000002,"end":9.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.813468750000002,"end":15.404093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.825968750000001,"end":66.31596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.10721875,"end":25.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.01409375,"end":27.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.50346875,"end":27.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":66.50159375,"end":93.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.97409375000001,"end":94.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":94.91909375,"end":94.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.93596875,"end":115.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.33346875000001,"end":117.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.53596875000001,"end":120.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.92784375000001,"end":120.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.55221875000001,"end":125.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":124.66971875,"end":216.23346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.00221875,"end":130.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.43659375000001,"end":131.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.48159375,"end":141.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.17971875,"end":155.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.91784375,"end":183.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.70596875,"end":221.61659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.13971875000001,"end":232.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.38284375,"end":233.36159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.37846875000002,"end":254.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.92784375000002,"end":260.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":260.44596875,"end":292.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.98096875000005,"end":295.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":295.73159375,"end":309.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.38346875,"end":310.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.63221875,"end":314.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.44596875,"end":347.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.41971875,"end":357.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.71846875,"end":353.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":356.85284375000003,"end":358.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.73034375000003,"end":374.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":366.43784375,"end":366.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.95971875000004,"end":388.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":388.45971875000004,"end":436.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.72221875,"end":436.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.85721875,"end":439.10159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.674,"end":7.339,"text":"謝謝主席交通部陳部長有請我們請陳部長"},{"start":14.841,"end":43.627,"text":"委員好部長午安辛苦了交通部是大部業報總是質詢大排長龍就辛苦了但我們今天還是要繼續追這個本期的選區在桃園這我一向都是幫通勤族的權益代言那這段時間雖然小有成果但結構性的問題的改善卻有限所以今天當然我們要持續的來做關心通勤族的三大困境在桃園一個叫人一個叫車一個叫路分別不代表不同的題目我希望可以聽到交通部明確的回答"},{"start":44.207,"end":65.761,"text":"人的困境當然就是國道客運的司機荒這件事情其實我們已經在這裡反覆討論非常多次那曾經有一度有討論比如說橋外生等等有沒有辦法輔導就業讓他變成大客車司機培訓的這樣子一個來源那看當初就講說正在做跨部會的研議但是部長研議到了現在好像還在研議"},{"start":67.101,"end":94.242,"text":"114年12月統計公路客運駕駛缺員是661市區客運缺員1367合計缺口還是超過2000人比起去年10月我們關心這個題目的時候稍微收斂一點點少了253人就是稍微找到了一些人但是恐怕這離2000多人目標還是很大一段距離要走啊所以當初勞動部也預告要修正法規我說橋外政府我們要開放嘛總得補人嘛但卻在5月公告的時候不見了這中間發生什麼事了是不是請交通部說明一下"},{"start":95.263,"end":115.311,"text":"報告委員 應該是勞動部那邊對一些條件還有一些疑義不過最近我有跟勞動部長有在做討論我們的各自的意見其實都已經開始在收斂所以我們希望能夠趕快針對橋外生的駕駛的部分能夠來做一些對客運業者的協助時間有沒有明確"},{"start":116.691,"end":132.499,"text":"你比較講究五月嘛後來表現不是這樣對不對有沒有新的時間表是我們先把問題解決因為我現在沒有辦法給一個比較具體的時間我本期再給你另外一個建議啦就是曾經我們在國防委員會的時候跟退府會討論的時候其實很多是軍人退役他也要有生涯發展等等"},{"start":133.019,"end":159.748,"text":"然後也許具備一定的技術嘛所以我講你從各個不同的領域多方的跨部位的協調去看看有沒有辦法去擴大這個人才的儲備庫啦我想這也是值得嘗試的所以我想退役軍人的部分也可以思考一下當然我們的政策都要重優嘛不管是喬艾森這一塊也好或者是其他也好政策上的重優補助讓他大量的誘因我想是很必要的那再來改善環境這我們就不多講因為今天時間有限希望交通部這我們兩個禮拜之內會不會書面回覆你們的辦理進度可以嗎"},{"start":160.468,"end":180.843,"text":"呃可以可以可以啊OK好謝謝這是人人的困境第二個叫車的困境啊這這個算是有一點點明確進展但是一樣是卡關的狀態嘛這之前很多人包含交通部裡面我們都委員在質詢都希望國道客運可以開放雙層巴士同樣的司機一個司機我載客量double他也是解決問題的一個方式那現在看起來也好像"},{"start":181.403,"end":195.468,"text":"有開放了對不對 修法已經修完了對不對那修完之後 因為桃園市政府很快啊因為我們桃園非常需要國道客運所以桃園市政府已經看到投影片上已經有補助實施計畫但我要跟部長講殘酷的現實就真的補助實施計畫給的時候客運業者有點害怕"},{"start":197.449,"end":215.749,"text":"因為客戶業者在等待嘛 這個很正常站在業者的角度 我也在思考中央有沒有相關的政策配套跟誘因碼我當然是 欸 可以共同申請 還是重優申請還是共同合流 這個都是業者在期待的但現在看起來 我們中央雖然放寬了法規但針對雙城巴士 有沒有打算擬相關的新興計畫呢"},{"start":217.17,"end":240.759,"text":"這個部分我們應該會做一些補助啦那詳細的補助我是不是請局長來回答好 剛剛會員報告一下這個補助的這個部分我們現在在檢討把它納到這個公運裡面啦但是現在就是還有兩個課題必須要就是有點 必須要一點時間第一個部分的話大概面臨到的課題去年公運有53億的經費但是今年只有這個35億所以經費到5億所以我們的空間是相當的這個局限"},{"start":244.961,"end":257.834,"text":"那第二個部分的話因為我想我還是要跟各位報告一下因為這個預算我必須要考慮說通過的預算有多少那個再做調整所以目前大概就是這兩個課題這邊我們內部已經有在研擬這個補助的情況"},{"start":260.697,"end":280.365,"text":"這一樣啦 你兩個禮拜一樣我至少要知道計畫的內容那我想我跟部長我也很清楚講像這種民生相關的你就大膽的提新計畫因為我們這個立法院通過的其實都是民生相關的你這樣來提沒有關係或者是未來用追加的方式我相信尤其是照顧通勤族的所有立法委員都不會為難這筆預算但希望交通部至少要點要出來嘛我們讓這個東西明確嘛"},{"start":281.505,"end":303.061,"text":"那大概業者也許會做比較 有地方政府走比較快 優惠比較多 至少就可以先走我們才可以具體的看到政策成效啦 好不好這一點 一樣我們兩個禮拜之後 我們要有書面 甚至要來做一下討論 可以嗎好 第三個要入的困境 這是我桃園區這個大桃園非常重要的一個交通工程 叫做國道一號甲線現在這個西段 也就是海邊到蘆竹南崁"},{"start":303.801,"end":319.627,"text":"接到大坑交流道這一段基本上已經開始進行動工非常感謝這個中央地方共同合作來推展的建設但是我要提醒陳部長您可能是來的時間比較新一點這個過去的時候在討論國道一號甲線的建設的時候它其實有分西段跟東段"},{"start":320.387,"end":344.987,"text":"而東段對於疏解桃園春日路的塞車上交流道的塞車是非常非常重要的但這一段中間一度有一些困難後來變成要分段處理我現在沒有講說你馬上就要變出錢然後馬上動工很難但是我至少希望這個計畫不要被刪除我東段我要重啟討論所以我現在希望交通部重新做研究評估等等現在有沒有相關的進度跟規劃請部長回答我是不是請局長回答可以的 謝謝"},{"start":347.809,"end":373.625,"text":"跟委員報告因為國藝甲的這一個確實西段的這個部分已經開始了嘛對已經開始了那我們三標的部分都有絕標都有絕標了嘛那東段之前在做這個可研的時候其實本來就委員也知道這邊的話還有很多就是說包括中油的一些煉油廠的相關的一些設施那所以後續的這個部分的話我想我們會再跟因為也涉及到包括這個"},{"start":375.487,"end":387.225,"text":"經濟部然後還有這個地方的部分我想我們或許這個東研的這個部分的話以前的一些研究的一些基礎我想我們會來做再做一個那個完整的一些檢討這樣子"},{"start":388.819,"end":415.738,"text":"這個我跟部長跟局長也更新一下進度這從本席就任立委開始我第一個去的地方就是煉油廠經濟部長也跟著去了其中我們就有討論到未來包含除油槽怎麼去做調整路廊怎麼畫最經濟其實跟煉油廠都有展開合理的溝通台灣市政府也同步在進行相關的一個準備所以其實我講今天講我們至少要讓這個計畫重新開始啟動花一點時間做政策溝通都是要的本席也百分之一百願意去協助但希望交通這邊既然"},{"start":416.178,"end":438.936,"text":"地方已經開始動起來了對於這個有所期待就希望不要再停留在過去的想像說我們做西段就好東段把它遺忘了這我想對桃園的通勤狀況的改善那就扣分了好不好所以希望交通部部長這個一樣這個會後一樣我們就兩個禮拜這個都只是講說現在的一個進度跟研究的計畫我們重新把它排上軌道上這我們再來做進一步的研討可以嗎好人車路三個問題拜託交通部長"}]}},{"id":"168176","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168176","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cdd154dbddce655497570c8d4d2e9dc78b88717e2a81a321e2920bcfc32d3c7235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"13:51:29 - 14:03:52","影片長度":"00:12:23","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:51:29+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T14:03:52+08:00","duration":743,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.5372187500000001,"end":1.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.544718750000001,"end":10.695968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.016593750000002,"end":13.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.919093750000002,"end":15.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.969718750000002,"end":14.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.640343750000003,"end":16.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.14971875,"end":23.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.68534375,"end":45.087218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":45.67784375,"end":76.27221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.71096875,"end":84.89534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.23284375,"end":182.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":133.59659375,"end":137.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.04034375,"end":190.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.63409375,"end":222.78096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.88221875000002,"end":225.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.34159375000002,"end":236.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.94346875000002,"end":238.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.16221875000002,"end":272.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.05159375,"end":286.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.56409375000004,"end":293.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.14971875000003,"end":294.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.92596875000004,"end":297.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":295.90034375000005,"end":300.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":300.33846875,"end":303.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.84846875,"end":304.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.93284375,"end":307.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":306.14346875,"end":306.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.18971875,"end":354.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.11471875,"end":396.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.61034375,"end":401.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":401.30159375000005,"end":423.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.54284375000003,"end":448.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":447.96096875,"end":504.10409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.64159375,"end":467.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.32034375,"end":470.45534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.42471875,"end":529.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":506.02784375000005,"end":506.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":511.39409375,"end":511.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.46159375,"end":511.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.30096875,"end":513.6047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":529.7878437500001,"end":532.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.25159375,"end":538.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":536.48721875,"end":537.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":537.88784375,"end":541.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.5203437499999,"end":540.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.54971875,"end":548.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":542.07284375,"end":542.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":548.55284375,"end":552.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":552.7378437500001,"end":561.7322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":556.9565937500001,"end":557.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.79971875,"end":565.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":565.05659375,"end":573.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.17346875,"end":573.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":573.88221875,"end":573.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.89909375,"end":573.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":573.9665937500001,"end":588.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":588.54659375,"end":589.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":589.3059687500001,"end":590.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":591.34784375,"end":601.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.14346875,"end":673.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":610.58534375,"end":610.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.9734687499999,"end":611.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.97471875,"end":630.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.13659375,"end":647.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":672.3647187500001,"end":672.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":673.42784375,"end":688.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":688.95284375,"end":720.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":720.96471875,"end":721.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":721.65659375,"end":727.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.29284375,"end":732.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":728.98034375,"end":729.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":730.3303437500001,"end":730.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":732.67596875,"end":739.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":736.55721875,"end":738.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":739.3415937500001,"end":739.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":739.40909375,"end":739.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":739.42596875,"end":739.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":739.4597187500001,"end":739.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":740.64096875,"end":740.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":740.7422187500001,"end":742.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":742.9697187500001,"end":745.85534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.59,"end":6.916,"text":"謝謝主席有請陳次長及圓明會羅處長請陳次長還有羅處長謝謝"},{"start":24.695,"end":42.867,"text":"我們原住民的工作類型真的是比較辛苦大家都是從事營造業一些非典型勞動的比例比較高所以都是暴露在高風險低保障的勞動環境當中所以我們本席在很多次的一個諮詢裡面都有提到這些我的請求謝謝我們"},{"start":45.729,"end":66.502,"text":"我們勞動部有提供一些資料我們先看一下就是我們的死亡死亡值債的部分在13年到14年10月有34件然後因為工地承攬停工的這個案件大概有62件那我想知道的是說我們一直在要確保我們的權益然後希望能夠去督促那些比較"},{"start":67.602,"end":84.549,"text":"辛苦的這些非典型勞動加保的這些我們的基層勞工我想知道到目前為止我們的為了要催保跟查核我們到底推動哪些政策跟執行的措施現在執行的成效又是什麼"},{"start":85.931,"end":100.383,"text":"第一件事情跟委員報告就是說我們的原住民朋友主要他的勞參率其實比國人還高我要感謝原住民朋友的協助那他主要最大的兩個工作場域一個是製造業一個是服務業"},{"start":101.104,"end":122.019,"text":"製造業的部分因為製造業的工作屬性在過往的情況確實他的職災的發生率會偏高那這部分勞動部大概會採取幾個措施一個部分是我們對於職災發生的原因會去加強職安位的相關的的加強的相關的措施那第二個部分是有關於"},{"start":123.42,"end":138.909,"text":"營造業過往有一些多層承攬或者是分包的狀況我們在這一次承蒙大院的協助我們在職安法的修法也把這一塊做了一個起義的處理第三個部分是有關萬一不幸發生職業災害我們其實在勞工職業災害保險及保護法會有相應的保障那這邊我們一方面會透過"},{"start":147.754,"end":168.515,"text":"官的宣導去鼓勵大家去催促強制納保那另外萬一有一時半刻沒有辦法是長時間的僱用我們也有減便的加保措施那如果退一萬步言真的不幸發生了在植栽保法裡面也有即使沒有納保我們還是有一些基本的保障"},{"start":169.196,"end":190.095,"text":"對於原住民朋友們的保護的部分我們會來持續加強那如果有發生離災不幸離災的狀況也會透過地方的個案的造福的同仁來提供必要的支持不知道原民會有沒有特別去掌握就是說被典型勞動者的那些加保制度我們目前實際使用的人數有多少"},{"start":190.635,"end":205.203,"text":"好 跟委員報告一下那我們在107年開始就跟勞動部有合作有針對那些未納保的部分來去做相關的處理從107年 當時的無勞保人數大概是六萬三千多人113年已經減低到四萬兩千人"},{"start":206.244,"end":225.582,"text":"也是說我們的那個有勞保的人數從73.98到83.478左右那這個也是要謝謝我們勞動部就針對那些5人以上5勞保公司那部分有加強查核那有我們部分呢也配合也做針對4人以下無一定雇主的部分來去做一個宣導以上"},{"start":229.245,"end":236.409,"text":"那我想知道說有沒有裁法或者是說你覺得這個裁法的比例有沒有掌握"},{"start":240.859,"end":263.648,"text":"這邊當然如果只要有工作就應該要加保這是僱主應該承擔的責任那如果僱主沒有加保我們一方面會提供勞工的職災勞工保護法會提供勞工必要的給付同時也會裁罰僱主他應該支付的相應的費用除了罰完之外本來他應該透過保險來給付的這部分我們也會請僱主來負擔"},{"start":265.589,"end":283.023,"text":"相應的部分我們其實都有在一些處理我是不是請我們市長可以就數據的部分跟我們做一個說明跟委員報告就是我們從災保法是111年5月1號開始實施我們對沒有加保的失業單位我們會裁罰2萬到10萬那大概從那個時候到"},{"start":287.608,"end":303.23,"text":"到115年的1月為止一共有10,073件那麼多件但是這個是全體不是原民原民的部分我是希望有一些數據給我們原民的部分再細分出來給我們知道"},{"start":303.951,"end":321.98,"text":"我再看看勞保局能不能把它分開我知道在加重裁法跟嚴格查核這個機制是對當然是全國通用不過我是覺得如果說像我們針對我們原住民的企業可能都是在起步的階段或者是說他確實沒有一些專業的人力來幫他做這些比如說"},{"start":322.68,"end":337.7,"text":"他缺乏法務跟行政的一些量能他缺乏風險辨識的一些專業能力也就是說可能雇主也不知道哪裡危險也還有一些就是他買不起房付或者是外部的這些配備也就是說他缺乏財務的彈性跟資源"},{"start":339.281,"end":354.149,"text":"雖然我們有加重採訪跟嚴格採訪可是就僱主的部分我覺得還是要輔導我們原住民的這些危險的企業者因為本來就做這些事情本來就已經很辛苦可是他們沒有這方面的專業可以加以輔導嗎"},{"start":355.191,"end":380.271,"text":"是這邊沒有問題謝謝委員分成兩個部分來看第一個部分是只要有工作就應該參加職災保險那這部分也有簡便的加保方式可以去做處理那第二個部分是有關於降災防災減災的部分這部分就是有關於在營造業的現場如何避免他職場安全的部分受到危害那主要以前大部分都會"},{"start":380.771,"end":394.668,"text":"碰到的是高空墜落諸如此類的相應的災害那這部分我們洪部長有請治安署針對營造業的防災減災的部分去推動相應的專案那也跟很多的"},{"start":396.95,"end":421.78,"text":"工協會在營造夥伴關係會去持續的去推廣那希望我再看職場減災這個部分我覺得原鄉也沒有被特別拉出來看所以他如果他在全國的一個平均數裡面就看不出他的嚴重性所以這個職場減災的部分我希望有個原住民的KPI就是說原鄉跟原民的企業覆蓋率是多少你們宣導是怎麼做的我覺得應該是還是要具體一點讓我們知道"},{"start":424.282,"end":447.484,"text":"好謝謝這部分我們會分成兩個部分來做第一個部分就是說原民朋友如果在一般的企業裡面我們會透過整個職安位的角度透過全企業的方式來宣導那第二個如果是原鄉或者是原民事業單位比較特殊的情況我們也跟原民會來請教一起來對針對這部分來做出"},{"start":448.164,"end":474.976,"text":"對 因為現在的財法都很高比如300萬到450萬就是說隱匿這些其實就我們的這個我剛才說的微型創業這些他們根本就沒有能力去負擔這些所以我就說既然有這麼高的財法應該有相當程度的一個所謂的輔導跟我們剛才所說的所謂的KPI 減災KPI最後就是針對我們之前有講到促進人主民主就業獎勵計畫這個部分"},{"start":476.937,"end":502.443,"text":"那可能工作到一定的時間可能就獎勵原住民一些他的獎勵可是只有獎勵勞工可是沒有獎勵雇主所以我們之前在12年的6月像會議上面勞動部就代替原住民提案說原民會提案說要補助失業單位促進原住民主就業計畫希望能夠補助雇主的負擔勞保及救保的費用的50%我不知道現在這個執行的狀況如何"},{"start":504.963,"end":531.103,"text":"先跟委員報告那有關就針對原住民促進就業獎勵的計劃部分其實我們是跨部會合作那我們就針對原住民的個人的部分如果是你的薪資超過三而且穩定工作三個月大概就會有三千到一萬左右的不同等級的薪資去做獎勵但是雇主的部分有現有勞動部的計劃就已經有了所以我們這個部分是跨部會有在合作所以現有的就是50%嗎"},{"start":533.786,"end":552.247,"text":"但是補助的那一塊那個還在研議中所以已經從12年到現在已經三年了還在研議所以我們現在就是用促進就會獎勵計畫這個部分先做我們可以做的部分那我希望那勞動部主責嗎還是你們主責"},{"start":553.548,"end":573.453,"text":"我們研究個人的部分我們這邊會來處理但是我們也會用跨部而且我們每半夜也都跟勞動部做一次的一個研究業方面的一個平台的一個聯絡會議我是希望一個具體的一個財務評估適用條件跟上路的時程不然我們的雇主其實也是很辛苦可以嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":575.873,"end":600.861,"text":"最後一個問題是關於那個我們因為大家都講到那個時候所以我就講我們75歲那個免巴士量表的部分那還是勤務服部還有勞動部還有我們運營會因為我之前找過分別找過各單位來談結果大家都互相貼來貼去我很想知道說到底這個75歲免巴士量表是哪一個單位要主責"},{"start":603.468,"end":616.426,"text":"跟委員報告大院在修正就業保險就業服務法的時候80歲以上是免巴士量所以我們當時跟衛務部在整個的相應的措施裡面"},{"start":618.228,"end":646.51,"text":"不會去協調合作去讓他順利的實施也沒有排擠到重症家庭的需求至於委員所提到說原住民朋友的部分是不是75歲以上就可以免巴氏量表我跟委員報告在目前的狀況底下原住民朋友在70歲75歲到80歲這部分其實他有相關如果萬一不幸有失能情況相關的照顧其實現在絕大部分都已經可以走到多元免貧了"},{"start":647.851,"end":672.939,"text":"唯一如果說他沒有達到失能的狀況而要去放寬免巴士量表的話那這部分恐怕現階段還需要再做審慎的討論但是我要強調說原住民朋友在70歲以上如果他有失能的狀況需要協助照顧在現階段都已經多元免貧絕大部分在多元免貧就可以得到協助"},{"start":673.539,"end":700.092,"text":"那好那我知道這個就是說多元免貧可能協助大部分可是我是希望羅處長這邊園民會能不能掌握75歲的長者我們原住民的確實有這個需求的可不可以在近期之內調查出來或者是說你們覺得有沒有一個替代比如說今天做不到這些過度的配套是不是由衛生所或者巡迴醫療或者是長照評估就可以拿到這些他應該要有的這個量表而不是要又要派車去"},{"start":701.612,"end":717.607,"text":"帶長者去醫院然後再去做一個巴車因為現在他說還沒有一個可行方案嘛75歲以上免巴車量表他還是要巴車量表嘛萬一他需要這個的話能不能有地區的也就是衛生所跟我們在地的診所就可以不然那個週車勞頓真的問了一張紙"},{"start":720.97,"end":745.301,"text":"很辛苦有那個衛福部有新公告的一個就是在針對那個多元的那個評估的方式這個已經有相關的有相關規定出來了那75歲以上的長者確實需要的我覺得也可以去掌握數據我們也試著幫您看看OK 好 謝謝好 謝謝謝映映召委的發言也謝謝各位官員的答詢"}]}},{"id":"168175","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168175","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c3915359abd00ee54e62ad2ff7c694815b88717e2a81a321e6304fc2c5abcbb3c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"13:32:20 - 13:38:52","影片長度":"00:06:32","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-01","start_time":"2026-04-01T13:32:20+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-01T13:38:52+08:00","duration":392,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-5-23-4"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.400343750000001,"end":15.167843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.16284375,"end":30.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.64221875,"end":30.996593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.996593750000002,"end":32.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.24534375,"end":32.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.61659375,"end":35.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.53596875,"end":42.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.353468750000005,"end":44.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.96909375,"end":45.610343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.09971875,"end":47.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.580343750000004,"end":97.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.85534375,"end":100.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.92659375000001,"end":112.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.65471875,"end":117.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.83534375,"end":119.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.96159375,"end":119.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.09659375000001,"end":130.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.21721875,"end":138.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.44784375,"end":141.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.03409375,"end":142.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.50221875,"end":151.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.10846875000001,"end":154.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.21784375000001,"end":157.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.97659375,"end":161.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.21659375000002,"end":163.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.28409375,"end":164.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.92096875000001,"end":164.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.44409375,"end":164.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.46096875,"end":164.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.49471875,"end":164.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.59596875,"end":178.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.82346875000002,"end":167.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.49784375000002,"end":176.89784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.02409375000002,"end":183.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.27721875,"end":181.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.98096875000002,"end":191.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.16659375,"end":186.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.79471875000002,"end":189.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.70971875,"end":195.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.18596875,"end":214.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.64721875,"end":216.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.06034375000002,"end":219.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.97971875000002,"end":229.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.91909375,"end":234.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.43721875000003,"end":238.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.69409375,"end":240.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.96346875,"end":246.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.04721875,"end":248.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.07221875000002,"end":252.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.02534375000002,"end":252.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.64971875,"end":252.70034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.70034375000003,"end":252.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.80159375000002,"end":255.28221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.88596875000002,"end":253.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.03346875000003,"end":263.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.77471875000003,"end":262.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.21346875,"end":280.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.07784375,"end":267.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.91971875,"end":284.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.92784375,"end":293.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.50409375000004,"end":294.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.48284375000003,"end":308.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.71284375000005,"end":314.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.15909375,"end":321.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.48284375000003,"end":323.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.44034375,"end":333.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.03409375,"end":337.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.00409375000004,"end":336.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.21034375000005,"end":342.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.29471875,"end":337.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.94784375,"end":351.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.50346875,"end":366.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.90659375,"end":365.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.32409375000003,"end":365.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.61909375000005,"end":369.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.17596875000004,"end":386.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.13721875000005,"end":373.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.93846875,"end":376.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.88721875000005,"end":380.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.04721875,"end":385.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.40096875,"end":386.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.58221875000004,"end":391.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.96596875,"end":389.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.94471875000005,"end":391.44659375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.673,"end":13.494,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請部長謝謝請陳部長"},{"start":20.585,"end":46.683,"text":"部長好委員好我們來關心一下我們選區的建設啦其實你應該知道我要問什麼因為我跟您提過很多次了從您剛上任的時候就是太阪輕軌啦您知道嘛建設不分藍綠啦當然但是這拖到太久了當時我有跟您提到太阪輕軌他是民進黨前交通部長王國才為了幫民進黨某一位立委助選跑到板橋開的政見"},{"start":49.224,"end":72.901,"text":"跟大家講說我們要蓋太阪輕軌 社後支線這個是2024年之前王國才對板橋鄉親做的莊嚴承諾然後結果新北市政府也都很配合啊 積極啊112年開始5月3號就第一次提報然後後來來來回回來來回回已經到了第五次提報"},{"start":73.769,"end":100.339,"text":"第五次提報是去年的十月十三號當時新北市政府很慎重由侯友宜市長主動召集里長還有民代然後到現場宣布這件事情來問大家的意見然後大家沒有意見就送出了結果去年十月到今天又半年過去了然後我得知道最新的進度是交通部在二月份的時候又退回了"},{"start":100.979,"end":119.631,"text":"那退回的理由我跟部長報告因為部長你日語萬機啦你可能不會了解到那麼多重大建設啦他的理由是因為太阪輕軌它幾個路段把它改成高架那我想局長會知道改成高架的原因是因為要提升行駛的速率因為它有時候可能會遇到一些失智路口"},{"start":120.231,"end":138.825,"text":"那如果說高架的話他就可以避開這些十字路口然後所以提高這些速率然後讓這一個可行性可以更高嘛這是一件好事嘛結果鐵道局又回覆就說請新北市政府說明一下新增這兩段高架路段的必要性必要性我跟你講了就這樣"},{"start":143.996,"end":156.246,"text":"然後再來就是說我不懂說人家十月份送這個過來哇 你提這個問題你要開這麼久的會你要開四個月的會然後問了一個大災問了一個那麼籠統的問題"},{"start":159.886,"end":183.259,"text":"這個難免會讓人家覺得你在卡啦因為如果說絕對不會卡你放心這個不會卡不是啦不要講一套錯一套我說難免讓人家覺得我剛剛講的意思是說人家十月就送來了然後結果審了四鐵道局要審的案子同時要審查案子非常多審了四個月然後只是回了這一個問題欸不只這個問題然後差不多啦部長這個還是要跟你拜託"},{"start":185.014,"end":213.559,"text":"好不好這個是王博才部長的莊嚴承諾謝謝王博才他都已經下來不知道已經幾任部長了然後那個時候我們在地方開會的時候民進黨立委因為板橋有兩個立委嘛另外一位啦然後他說哇那時候交通部啊都已經講了社後輕軌的什麼路啊都已經指明是哪一條路了錢都準備好了新北市怎麼沒有做這個社後輕軌我現在講的是主線都沒有過啦還要支線耶"},{"start":214.699,"end":239.837,"text":"主線的可行性研究都沒過那你怎麼承諾嘛你現在讓我們的感覺是說你這個效益很低啊沒什麼可行性啊那幹嘛一定要蓋咧現在感覺就這樣嘛那如果是這種態度的話那當時王國才為什麼來跟大家講說要蓋社後輕軌然後按照民進黨立委的說法是錢都準備好了路都指明了欸局長我先問一下請問一下他當時是指哪一條路社後輕軌是指哪一條路"},{"start":243.143,"end":270.115,"text":"報告委員這個我可能要再了解一下所以沒這件事是不是所以那個立委也在隨便亂講然後說錢都準備好請問是錢是準備多少不是啦報告委員那個立委說錢都準備好錢是準備多少一條歸一條啦這一條呃太阪輕軌的部分他的問題我們要去面對跟解決先把這一條解決完之後我們再來談我沒有我沒有第一個齁不然我沒有說不要解決我沒有說啊很潦草但是這個時程嘛時程嘛"},{"start":270.675,"end":293.593,"text":"一百一十二年五月三號就已經提了然後到現在已經一百一十五年也快五月三號了已經過三年了不過報告委員他裡面有一些修改您剛剛也提到你可以快一點嗎我跟你講任何報告都是會有修改來來回回這我們都知道您在部裡面有一些公文你叫下面的人重送也都OK重點是時程嘛是"},{"start":294.651,"end":315.684,"text":"當然會來來回回啊那如果按照你的理由的話十年夠不夠給你十年夠不夠反正都會來來回回嘛那難道你不能夠找一些方法是讓他來來回回的時間縮短嗎或者來來回回的頻率降低嗎部長如果說你願意做一定是可以啊所以我現在就是告訴你說地方給我們的回答如果是符合鐵道局的審議會議裡面所要求的那當然所以交通部現在站的"},{"start":316.524,"end":342.072,"text":"態度就是把你東西給我啦OK的話我就過不OK我就叫你改你現在是比較被動的態度嘛OK這件事是看專業的態度你是比較被動的態度那我已經講了這是交通部長的莊嚴承諾所以你應該是化被動為主動積極的去解決這個問題我的態度很簡單我們會積極希望能夠解決這個問題這也必須要地方政府能夠配合地方政府很配合不然的話交通部會讓人家感覺王國才部長在"},{"start":343.953,"end":366.352,"text":"為了選舉亂開支票然後我們另外一區民進黨立委也是為了選舉亂開支票所以你做這個事情是不分藍綠的不分藍綠的主線是在我們那邊沒錯但是支線在另外一個我們一起來爭取所以今天把這個問題凸顯出來我真的覺得太久了啦真的太久了可以加快速度嗎部長 局長可以願意願意協助嗎願意化被動為主動嗎"},{"start":367.671,"end":390.954,"text":"我們一直都很願意 願意發揮不是說看他不OK不OK就過 不OK就繼續啊不要這種態度啦好不好 部長我們謝謝葉委員那下一次接下來可不可以主動聯絡一下然後趕快讓他過可不可以因為趙偉也是民意代表 趙偉很懂瞭解我們多次的會議啦我們開很多次會議 盡力努力啦 好不好盡力努力 好 謝謝"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}