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{"start":1964.798,"end":1983.605,"text":"常務司長楊基榮中將參事石溫榮中將政務辦公室主任孫立芳中將主計局局長謝祺賢中將戰略規劃司司長黃文綺中將法律事務司司長吳義聖中將國防採購室主任趙雅萍中將"},{"start":1995.359,"end":2023.905,"text":"中科院副院長林高洲先生再來介紹機關代表那就介紹代表為主財政部國庫署陳柏成署長行政院主計總處陳慧娟副主計長公務預算處陳台偉專門委員經濟部產業發展署周宇新副署長"},{"start":2026.105,"end":2053.948,"text":"數位發展部自動安全署綜合規劃組李東儀組長衛生福利部會計處鄭美琴檢任審查社會及家庭署江琴英科長國家科學及技術委員會郭金副處長行政院國文工程委員會謝基正代理處長"},{"start":2056.102,"end":2078.168,"text":"審計部第二廳陳正庸廳長法務部廟江縣參事那我們今天很可惜看到國民黨沒有派員參加但是民眾黨的這個委員大家都有來參與那我們是再次"},{"start":2079.506,"end":2100.771,"text":"很沉痛的呼籲這個重要的這種國防特別條例已經為了國民黨已經更改了兩次的時間到今天那事前也跟所有的國民黨的委員都努力的來去溝通但是到最後還是一樣可能是他們的黨邊就是克裕竹 傅坤祺委員還是一樣"},{"start":2102.475,"end":2125.373,"text":"我認為這樣子對我們的國防條例的審議是一點幫助都沒有根本沒有辦法討論根本沒有辦法來去做之前沒有共識的地方來去商討那這樣子對整個國家的推進是完全沒有幫助的那我們不希望今天就這樣子再空轉下去不要因為明天是要見習近平還是怎麼樣然後就故意把這個事情往後擱置不要跟中共連動嘛"},{"start":2128.32,"end":2138.618,"text":"沒關係 我們今天一樣要讓這場的委員盡可能的把該說的話還是要說出來首先我們請王定偉"},{"start":2141.571,"end":2160.132,"text":"主席各位同仁本席在這邊先建議雖然在委員會進行黨團協商我們希望它不只是一個程序而是一個有效的溝通那我會建議主席這邊我們再多等十分鐘我們期待"},{"start":2161.013,"end":2188.792,"text":"有國民黨的委員能夠出席黨團的協商你贊成或反對可以在這邊表達態度你支持不支持可以在這邊把話說出來而不是只因為中國國民黨黨主席鄭麗文現在正要在中國見習近平結果呢國防預算擋國防特別預算的特別條例也擋然後現在連這一個有人形容叫過水式的協商連來都不來兩度更改時間"},{"start":2190.713,"end":2218.478,"text":"兩度更改時間到底為了什麼那國防特別預算的特別條例攸關著台灣不對稱戰力的建立防空力量的整合這是台灣盾以及台美合作在台灣建立我們的軍工供應鏈以及台灣精準彈藥及產線的取得在條例的送入委員會之前在程序委員會被杯葛十次在委員會的討論我相信各位同仁都有看到"},{"start":2220.479,"end":2245.616,"text":"國民黨的版本3800億那個沒有加恩他的加恩要另外提特別條例他就是給你3800億那委員會的討論呢沒有辦法聚焦有共識那現在呢由召委主責召委召開委員會的黨團協商這個程序其實各黨可以來這邊表達意見反對也可以可是怎麼會為了擔心習近平不高興就不來了呢"},{"start":2247.253,"end":2275.689,"text":"威脅台灣2300萬軍民同胞的就是中國共產黨的解放軍我們在山上頂著雪顧著雷達站的是我們的國軍弟兄姐妹在最難的疆域在那些遙遠的小島上站著崗的是我們的國軍弟兄姐妹我們的國防預算是要讓他拿足夠的預算正確的裝備保護我們2300萬人的家而唯一威脅的是中國共產黨的解放軍就現在為了建"},{"start":2276.789,"end":2303.227,"text":"共產黨的老大習近平預算要擋 國防不給然後現在連我們這個協商會議兩度更改到現在根本就乾脆不來我個人在這邊表達很深的遺憾不管誰執政這無關政治 更無關政黨這攸關2300萬人我們共同的家園一個基本的安全我們所應該最支持的國軍應該要得到充足的資源去守護這個國家"},{"start":2304.588,"end":2330.701,"text":"所以今天這一個重要的協商程序我們很遺憾到目前為止主要的在野黨兩個主要在野黨有一位來我們王委員早上就說他今天會來我們表達感謝跟肯定我們希望能夠有一些共識但是另外一個政黨連來都不來這個協商根本無法簽字導致無法進行程序我們的年度國防預算被擋住了我們的特別預算特別條例被擋住了"},{"start":2331.821,"end":2345.234,"text":"特別條例通過之後還要再送進來審特別預算的細項這樣子的阻擋全世界唯一高興的應該只有解放軍吧所以我建議主席我們再多等一下子我希望國民黨的委員"},{"start":2346.516,"end":2374.071,"text":"能夠選擇來出席把贊成或反對的意見說出來這1.25兆分8年攸關台灣整體防衛力量提升的特別預算到底哪裡不適合到底哪裡不對這不是黨派之見這是一個國防安全的需求所以我們建議再等一下那我們也希望國人的擔憂八成民意的支持1.25兆我們希望跟在野黨能夠達成共識謝謝"},{"start":2376.344,"end":2379.867,"text":"主席首先我先建議就是我們可以一邊等一邊發言因為我想今天包括民眾黨的王委員來到這裡那麼他一定也是希望能夠促進我們現在整個國防預算特別條例能夠有機會達到一個共識因為"},{"start":2401.364,"end":2414.853,"text":"鄭麗文在去見習近平的時候國民黨發了一個文宣叫做躺平那我希望現在國民黨的委員不是正在家裡躺著等習近平躺著等習近平明天見了鄭麗文之後給指令因為我們都知道鄭麗文講說希望兩岸帶來的和平是天上飛的是鳥不是"},{"start":2426.26,"end":2450.707,"text":"飛機結果習近平就打了個臉讓他直接這兩天不斷的有共軍來擾台希望海裡游的是魚不要是軍艦結果習近平也開了個軍艦再打他一耳光我要講的就是其實和平如果你躺著等習近平那就是投降了所以這是為什麼今天我們現在坐在這裡可以看得到是中國直接就是出軍艦出軍機"},{"start":2452.881,"end":2463.324,"text":"把這些軍艦大炮架在我們的脖子上而現在第一線站在第一線守護我們的國軍最需要的就是國防特別條例趕快過關然後讓預算送進來審查這個才是最重要的躺在那裡等習近平你等到的是什麼等到的就是"},{"start":2474.144,"end":2485.789,"text":"共軍 共艦 直接給你來下馬威還有就是從今天早上10點到今天下午4點鐘在黃海北部的實彈演習"},{"start":2487.301,"end":2492.385,"text":"所以我們這個時候坐在這裡為什麼我們民進黨認為不應該把時間往後延那就是因為現在就是一個關鍵的時刻而這筆預算守護的是所有的人包括現在躺平等著習近平的國民黨委員現在時間是2點12分我還是希望他們有在看直播現在從辦公室走過來"},{"start":2514.261,"end":2531.309,"text":"不用五分鐘一切都還來得及躺平等著習近平等到的絕對不會是和平那我要講的是包括現在國民黨在後來委員會當中所通過的附帶決議其實大家如果認真來讀這個附帶決議是完全在打假球"},{"start":2535.871,"end":2540.577,"text":"也就是那一天在我們預算條例審查的過程當中他們講的都很好聽都說要過但是這張附帶決議拆穿了他們的假面所謂三千五百億加NN等於零就是告訴大家"},{"start":2555.885,"end":2563.368,"text":"今天根本就是不要讓我們來買所謂國家以及第一線的官兵最需要的預算如果今天我的解讀不對國民黨的委員你們還來得及趕快坐起來不要再躺平了可以移動你們的腳步用你的兩條腿走過來解釋你們是不是三千五百億加NN等於零就是"},{"start":2586.107,"end":2593.994,"text":"打假球直接要讓這筆預算消失 根本連買都買不到這是我的發言 謝謝"},{"start":2602.812,"end":2627.119,"text":"國安特別條例在程序委員會被在野黨擋了九次之多然後好不容易進入到委員會來做審查那審查的時候我們也發現在野黨的版本其實跟院版是差異非常的大所以我們希望能夠快速的進入朝野協商"},{"start":2627.899,"end":2648.517,"text":"那可是呢国民党在没有任何合理的理由之下呢要求要延迟两次他们要求要延迟来做协商可是呢是没有任何合理的这个理由那我们认为合理的理由呢就是明天郑立文呢"},{"start":2649.181,"end":2670.486,"text":"要跟習近平見面他們呢要得到了這個聖旨之後呢要怎麼做才要來做這個協商所以真的是非常非常的這個遺憾我剛才非常認同林楚昀委員所說的所謂他們的躺平主義在我看來躺平主義呢國民黨的躺平主義是充滿了滿滿的這個投降主義所以我們在這裡等因為國民黨的委員其實都在國內"},{"start":2677.438,"end":2686.866,"text":"他們沒有任何一個理由說不來協商沒有任何一個理由說他們要做演會可是他們今天卻在這個政協會之前都不來了都不來了很顯然就是為了明天的這個政協會這一點真的是讓大家非常的遺憾我想國人都看在眼裡這就是國民黨這就是國民黨好 以上謝謝"},{"start":2705.441,"end":2705.681,"text":"民進黨現場6位立委"},{"start":2723.186,"end":2727.65,"text":"外交國防委員會有七位委員有另外一位召委馬文君還有委員徐巧欣、牛許廷、陳永康黃仁、黃建斌還有韓院長那居然沒有一位在這裡出席我要講這是我擔任立委的第二屆也是第七年"},{"start":2744.085,"end":2753.454,"text":"我參加過這麼多的不管是黨團協商或者是委員會協商沒有看過有一個政黨沒有派出任何一位委員到場的那只有兩個解釋第一個 他們完全不關心台灣的國防強化"},{"start":2760.8,"end":2776.63,"text":"那第二個他們就算有人關心不敢出席因為怕耽誤了他們在中國的正主席可能見不了他心心念念想要的歷史地位就是習正會那大家都有看到剛剛林楚瑩委員也有講了"},{"start":2778.291,"end":2800.876,"text":"今天十點到六點鐘他們在進行實彈射擊禁止船隻靠近更不用講還有軍機軍艦所以這個和平之旅根本就是被軍機軍艦還有實彈射擊包圍的一個和平之旅可是今天不出席這個協商雖然我們還在等他們"},{"start":2801.636,"end":2824.867,"text":"那坐實了外界所說的這根本就是一個躺平之旅那我要再次痛心的強調就是軍購真的是賣方市場那國防部不管是部長或者是他們的司長都已經幾度講了這時間因為我們一直無法審查藍白拖到現在極度的急迫"},{"start":2825.728,"end":2845.41,"text":"那82號海馬市是幸好在美方願意的理解下所以爭取到能夠延後付款那結果今天早就安排通知的條例協商還要被繼續拖延那我想請問馬文君、徐巧興、牛許廷、陳永康、黃仁、黃建斌還有韓院長"},{"start":2846.601,"end":2867.702,"text":"你們到底有沒有看到國防部黃司長他的中將的眼淚我真的覺得我們寶貴的強化台灣自我防衛能力的時間不應該再被你們消耗尊重主席願意繼續等他們但我真的覺得他們在消耗全台灣強化自我防衛能力的寶貴時間"},{"start":2872.332,"end":2898.204,"text":"好謝謝范雲委員其實這一次我們的這個會議已經在之前上週我們就已經在跟國民黨已經有磋商過了已經延了兩次然後到現在那再來就是說在美方的這些參眾議員來訪的時候我看到我們的這些同仁們也都是非常正面的在回應國防特別條例不管是說要在審理上面或者是說在黨團協商的參與上面可是"},{"start":2899.344,"end":2913.06,"text":"我剛才提到的這些委員們還是受制於他們的黨鞭 傅坤祺還是受制於他們的主席 鄭麗文那我想這兩個是關鍵人物來擋這個特別條例的審議跟這個跨黨派的這種協調我們非常遺憾"},{"start":2918.26,"end":2944.767,"text":"那我還是再次呼籲 國民黨的委員們 中生代的委員們 新生代的委員們不管是從北到南 我們都看到有些委員有不同的心聲 不同的看法可是卻沒有辦法今天一起來協商國民黨這些黨 這一次今天的這些條例裡面有一些是上一次在討論過程當中 就已經說這一次要帶過來他們黨團討論完之後要帶過來 包含施行日期也好"},{"start":2946.038,"end":2967.235,"text":"包含是不是要來去送公園成績這些爭點都是可以在這一次先做討論的但是都沒有來沒有來的話我們這樣子是不是要原地踏步那要再重新再講一次嗎那在我們等待之前我們還是希望是不是要請王委員要不要來簡單的發言一下"},{"start":2969.482,"end":2985.437,"text":"好我想大家都知道台灣民眾黨也提出我們自己的軍購的特別條例的版本所以在前幾個禮拜我們在做了這個非常複雜的討論我們都一直在呼籲希望大家能夠支持台灣民眾黨的版本"},{"start":2986.558,"end":3010.976,"text":"今天也是一樣,我來到這裡進行協商我也是希望大家能夠支持我們台灣民眾黨的版本因為我想這個條例其實也蠻重要如果今天真的沒有辦法達到協議我們也希望藉由韓院長的高度能夠幫助我們促成大家我一直在講,希望能夠促成大家的意中求同"},{"start":3011.756,"end":3025.789,"text":"的一個這個特別條例的部分那不論是哪一次的協商包括未來的協商我們都希望大家所有委員能夠支持我們台灣民眾黨的版本以上再次感謝汪委員那這個汪委員的出席對於"},{"start":3027.372,"end":3041.509,"text":"我們的這種跨黨派的這種協商都是很有幫助的那其實這幾次我們都有針對這個國防特別條例來交換意見我們希望國民黨在我們現在在討論的時間還有時間還有機會能夠盡快來出席接下來我們請吳佩儀委員"},{"start":3046.637,"end":3051.358,"text":"主席剛剛主席有才事說我們這個會議我們這個王定義委員提議說我們再等10分鐘也許這個國民黨的委員會來參與但是我要提醒大家我們已經等了20分鐘了我們已經等了20分鐘至今這個黨團的協商沒有看到國民黨的國防外交委員的委員出席"},{"start":3068.303,"end":3071.044,"text":"那麼我想請問大家我們今天坐在這裡是為了什麼我們為什麼要審軍購條例台灣為什麼要軍購我們為什麼需要台灣要跟我們民主夥伴的國家合作不就是為了要和平嗎以實力求和平有實力才有和平這是人類從古希臘時代就有的智慧啊"},{"start":3091.564,"end":3094.405,"text":"所以我不了解我們立法院有一些黨團的同仁到今天不知道是在裝傻還是真的沒有慧根口口聲聲說台灣要和平兩岸要和平台灣目前對台灣最大的軍事威脅力量就是來自於中國這個不是我們說的這是客觀上面的事實嘛"},{"start":3113.815,"end":3117.797,"text":"那如果今天我們全體國人不分黨派我們襲擊的就是和平我們不就是需要來支持我們國家的軍購嗎我今天感到非常的痛心我感到非常的痛心我看到我們國家我們第一線最精英的軍人國防部的團隊他們坐在這裡在等待的是什麼"},{"start":3136.377,"end":3143.662,"text":"他們希望可以有機會當面的來向立法院依法報告說明為什麼國防部需要這個軍購條例為什麼這個軍購條例對我們台灣國家自我防護保衛是有所幫助的當大家都依法依程序坐在這裡等待開會的時候卻又為了國民黨的委員們集體翹班啊連人來都沒有來"},{"start":3164.414,"end":3173.939,"text":"各位現在國民黨很多委員我相信你們正在收看直播就我所知很多人現在都在立法院但是立法委員仍在立法院卻不敢依法來會議室參加黨團協商開會是為什麼"},{"start":3181.249,"end":3199.563,"text":"是鄭麗文交代你們不准來嗎是傅昆吉交代你們不准來嗎還是習近平交代國民黨的委員不准來國防外交委員會審查軍購條例國民黨你們可以翹班各位國人請你們看清楚了立法委員仍在立法院卻不來參與立法院的開會這樣子的態度國人可以接受嗎我希望國民黨要對今天集體缺席"},{"start":3210.902,"end":3214.206,"text":"集體下班這種惡劣的行徑要給社會一個交代"},{"start":3215.7,"end":3219.283,"text":"人在立法院卻不來開會是什麼原因到底是誰下令這麼可怕讓你們連來開會都不敢開會那我還是要再次懇求因為據我所知我們立法院黨團不分黨派的同仁在陪伴韓國瑜院長接待外賓的時候都向外賓表達我們台灣需要積極的來架構我們的軍事國防力量"},{"start":3241.559,"end":3249.285,"text":"但是怎麼轉過頭來當只有我們自己人在的時候你們在開會不管是條例的審查也好你現在連協商的場合你們一字一句都在阻擋原來難道中國國民黨的黨是黨軍購的黨黨預算的黨黨條例的黨嗎總預算也不審軍購條例也不審通通都不審查的立法委員到底"},{"start":3269.639,"end":3275.746,"text":"要如何來向國人交代我們是非常沉重 非常的心痛的來再次的盼望 也要拜託懇求"},{"start":3279.246,"end":3287.914,"text":"我們立法院各個黨派的委員大家可不可以負起自己的責任依法依程序的來參與這個協商軍購條例真的對台灣來講非常重要我們的軍購時間已經拖延了我們大家都坐在這裡等待請問台灣的安全還要等多久請問台灣的軍購還要等多久"},{"start":3306.754,"end":3311.978,"text":"謝謝吳佩儀委員的發言因為現在國民黨黨團還沒有代表出席那我們先暫時休息四分鐘"},{"start":3334.404,"end":3335.845,"text":"我們來管整罐點"},{"start":3368.855,"end":3375.538,"text":"這不能進行啊對啊在後面他瘦一點沒有啦"},{"start":3403.554,"end":3405.875,"text":"烧饼烧饼"},{"start":3433.831,"end":3450.056,"text":"等一下喔 等一下喔OK Alright"},{"start":3537.06,"end":3537.466,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":3917.369,"end":3923.432,"text":"我們繼續開會 因為國民黨的代表沒有來我們先請國防部長 顧部長來簡單的發言一下國防部"},{"start":3946.758,"end":3974.703,"text":"就這個特別預算我們耗費了相當久的時間我們就這個強化防衛專案整體的效能進行了詳細的規劃我們也跟美方進行了相當綿密的討論之後提出了這個特別條例"},{"start":3976.377,"end":3996.083,"text":"我們必須在這裡凱切的告訴在座的委員及各位國人中國不斷的持續擴張軍力在軍事上對我們的威脅日益的嚴峻隨時可以由信轉也由言轉戰"},{"start":4005.43,"end":4031.755,"text":"所以我們強化防衛人心跟不對稱戰力是我們一個迫在眉睫而且必須要從過去所累積的在不斷地堆疊上去所必須要進行的一個工作那我們之前做過精密專報我們也在這個條例審查之初我們也提出了一個充分的一個說明"},{"start":4032.81,"end":4053.844,"text":"那這邊特別有提到就是說我們為什麼要編列這個特別預算基於這個公預算的一個限制那也基於我們建金備戰的一個需要我們一直認為一照2500億是分8年編列"},{"start":4059.69,"end":4086.852,"text":"在跟行政院的相關的單位包括主席總書等認為在我們財政可以負擔的情況之下我們必須要正視整個印太區域和平的穩定是要靠我們願意來承擔我們應該負擔的防衛責任作為一個最大的前提去考量這件事情"},{"start":4088.627,"end":4102.696,"text":"剛剛很多委員也提到如果我們都不願意挺身付出來展現我們防衛自己國土的一個能力跟決心那別人為什麼要幫我們為什麼要幫我們所以我"},{"start":4111.727,"end":4134.663,"text":"在編列的這個過程當中我我們深刻的感受到是說我們真的是花了很很大的心力去編寫這個特別條例以及後續在條例通過之後大家會看得到的這些每一個的預算書表所能夠展現出來帶給我們真正"},{"start":4141.694,"end":4150.402,"text":"表現出我們有這個防衛的決心的那一個詳細的規劃這樣子的一個詳細的規劃代表了我們願意在集體嚇阻的一個架構下台灣作為第一島鏈的前緣我們不會置身事外我們願意"},{"start":4172.438,"end":4194.661,"text":"我們也有能力透過這樣子的一個戰力的提升來防衛我們自己的國土我們的家園所以集體嚇阻防衛分攤這是美國在國家安全戰略裡面一再提起的一個對美國來講他們的一個"},{"start":4195.72,"end":4216.752,"text":"最大的核心利益的對印太區域國家的要求也就是說它的核心利益是要維持印太區域的和平穩定而它對印太區域國家不只是對我們也對其他第一島鏈的國家有做這樣同樣要求而我們我們站在第一島鏈最前緣我們面對的"},{"start":4220.99,"end":4244.914,"text":"就是一個始終不放棄武力要併吞台灣的中國我們有什麼理由我們有什麼理由我們不願意在這個集體嚇阻的戰略架構下來承擔自我防衛的責任我沒有辦法理解這樣子的自我防衛責任能力的提升到底有什麼值得大家來質疑的"},{"start":4248.257,"end":4267.697,"text":"那我們當然不會只限於對美的軍購就認為我們的整體防衛專戰效能就可以藉由這個來加強因為還要顧慮到的是我們整個國防自主量能的一個提升因為這樣才有韌性因為這樣才有韌性"},{"start":4276.917,"end":4305.17,"text":"所以我只是在這裡最懷是凱切的這個目前朝野不分黨派理性的來思考我們除了跟美國討論美國願意供售的項目之外提升我們國防自主的一個量能包括無人載具包括相關的AI決策的輔助的系統包括相關我們應該要"},{"start":4308.714,"end":4334.521,"text":"增加的這些彈藥的產線等等這些都是強化我們作戰任性一個非常非常重要的一個課題如果我們能夠做到國際盟友就不會質疑我們自我防衛的決心但最可怕的就是所有的國際盟友假設都質疑我們有沒有這樣的決心的時候"},{"start":4340.305,"end":4364.052,"text":"那我們會面臨什麼我沒有辦法能夠想像就是說我們要尋求的和平不站在實力形成嚇阻的基礎之上我沒有辦法想像我們除了這個以外面對虎視眈眈的中國我們"},{"start":4371.636,"end":4400.515,"text":"在大家所有的民主夥伴都同意大家一起承擔這個集體嚇阻大家都來強化自我防衛的能力然後大家形成這樣子一個有效的嚇阻然後維持一個印太區域台海區域的一個和平穩定維持現狀那我們大家都不願意去"},{"start":4404.031,"end":4423.883,"text":"去接受這個我們面對的軍事威脅日益嚴峻的一個現實環境就認為我們沒有需要沒有需要進一步強化沒有需要進一步提升整理防衛作戰的能力"},{"start":4427.634,"end":4454.47,"text":"我沒有辦法能夠想像我們未來會面臨什麼樣子的更險惡的一個情境然後沒有什麼能力來持續的捍衛我們經過幾十年來不斷的奮鬥所得到的這樣的一個民主自由的生活我本身是"},{"start":4458.446,"end":4475.251,"text":"我們都從1990年代過來我過去擔任律師,這個大家都知道在擔任律師期間,我1988年唸書回來投入這個社會改革的相關運動"},{"start":4477.318,"end":4503.71,"text":"我三刻的體驗到我們民主真的不是天上掉下來的是多少的前輩努力來換得這個民主自由的生活我希望大家要珍惜我也特別珍惜不管我在這個位置"},{"start":4505.41,"end":4533.395,"text":"做了好與不好但是我衷心的期盼大家能夠支持國軍大家能夠支持我們國防力量的提升來永續的維持我們經過歷來多少的前面努力所能夠得到的這樣子真的是得之不易的民主自由的生活這樣的民主自由生活不容任何人來"},{"start":4534.972,"end":4556.985,"text":"催產來破壞我希望大家一起珍惜一起支持國軍一起來增加我們的國防力量以嚇阻以實力形成嚇阻以嚇阻來取得真正的和平以上謝謝謝謝顧部長"},{"start":4562.874,"end":4581.571,"text":"還是在強調這個鄭篤熙他希望盼望和平但那個不是策略也沒有辦法改變任何事情那是寄望在你敵人的仁慈那不是策略我們要能夠控制我們能夠控制的那就是包含我們自己對自己的國防投資"},{"start":4583.137,"end":4602.473,"text":"包含這一次我們跨黨派理論上要來去審議的很可惜我們沒有看到我們沒有辦法做超知在自己的能力的提升我們只能夠盼望只能夠希望嗎這是不對的這樣子的躺平也好或者是他的追求和平的方式完全是沒有戰略觀的本日結商"},{"start":4609.98,"end":4621.666,"text":"因為國民黨沒有代表出席無法取得共識後續立法院職權行使法第十二章相關規定另定期繼續協商非常遺憾但是謝謝 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衛生福利部組織法衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持署的組織法衛生福利部長期照顧及社會發展署組織法衛生福利部中央健康保險署組織法國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例以及國家中醫研究院設置條例等"},{"start":1916.667,"end":1937.017,"text":"這個都是因應整個國民對衛生福利服務的一個期待整個擴大醫療科技評估技術發展應用跟中醫藥研究能力的相關法案一共六個主題稍後我們按照協商的通知順序排序來依序進行協商"},{"start":1937.617,"end":1944.205,"text":"那協商進行前我們先介紹道場的委員來跟機關代表道場的委員我們有盧憲一代表還有程昭芝委員盧憲一委員程昭芝委員范雲委員還有"},{"start":1956.618,"end":1980.877,"text":"有立法委員有立法委員那就是我最尊敬的所以我這樣繞過後覺得自己人這樣那還有機關代表很多耶來 也是選一個啦應該還是要製作文書衛生福利部石崇良部長還有好 有聽到那個您這個署長是周道 周什麼軍周道軍署長然後這位是誰"},{"start":1986.117,"end":1987.818,"text":"師長還有一個郭采龍還有祝劍芳師長還有蘇益璋師長還有蔡淑鳳師長"},{"start":2011.874,"end":2038.91,"text":"好啦 其餘的應邀列席的官員名單就列入公報紀錄啦司法院人事行政總署 監察院主祕全序部專委 內政部專委 財政部還有教育部 法務部 經濟部我就沒有一直叫你了 今天太多人了還有勞動部 文化部 國家發展委員會國家科技及技術委員會 公共工程委員會原住民委員會 主計總署"},{"start":2040.251,"end":2060.819,"text":"那應要列席的官員名單我們就列入公報記錄我們現在來進行逐案的進行協商啊協商的時候請參閱協商條文的對照表跟審查報告及淨富二讀提案的關係文書那與會的委員如果有修正動議或者機關有建議的內容的話也請提出書面印發現場來進行討論"},{"start":2063.92,"end":2081.967,"text":"那首先我們進行主題一的病案協商司法法制跟社會福利及未還兩委員會報告病案審查行政院函請審議的衛生福利部的組織法第二條 第五條 第八條的條文修正案還有 現在覺得怎麼樣"},{"start":2085.373,"end":2087.034,"text":"委員許宇珍等17人委員沈發費等18人"},{"start":2097.685,"end":2117.007,"text":"這提案我們就分別經115年3月13號第11屆五會期第三次院會還有第四次院會第五次院會的決定淨附二讀與相關提案我們就併案來做協商以上共四案在今天的併案協商裡面"},{"start":2121.775,"end":2135.059,"text":"那我再跟委員會報告跟聯席會報告審查會我們在1月19號審查完略審查的結果是第二條第五條第八條都是保留送院會來處理並決議須交由黨團來做協商來我們現在開始進行主條的協商就是衛福部組織法的一個修正案現在為第二條"},{"start":2150.37,"end":2172.44,"text":"在這裡修正動議一共19個版本還有兩個修正動議那台灣民眾黨團所提的修正動議還有委員范雲委員所提的修正動議都中19個版本"},{"start":2178.408,"end":2185.261,"text":"來 我們現在各位委員有什麼看法嗎 還是先我們先聽聽衛福部啦 好不好"},{"start":2186.906,"end":2214.955,"text":"那個 柏中你先看你們外務部的看法是怎樣好 跟召委還有個委員說明一下第二條的部分因為我們上次主要是還有一些婦女權益的部分要不要這個移到這個私啦所以呢最後的討論的結果是要從原本的社家屬移到私所以我們在"},{"start":2215.515,"end":2239.311,"text":"第二條的本部長理事項下特別寫出在第四款有婦女權益保障就是未來這個就是私的業務從屬的業務移到私所以那也經過跟范雲委員的討論之後那大家也都支持這樣那所以我們就修正了一個協商的建議條文就是第二條的部分"},{"start":2239.951,"end":2253.637,"text":"那麼本部長李夏烈四項那特別修訂第四款有婦女權益保障跟婦女福利服務然後後面就是這個現行我們有的"},{"start":2255.118,"end":2275.928,"text":"婦女權益保障婦女福利服務跟社會參與這個是新增那其他都是原本的這個文字略做修正而已這個是第一個修正的建議那第二個是有陳昭志委員提出要在第二條再新增一項"},{"start":2277.248,"end":2299.986,"text":"是有關於對於本法施行前這個原聘僱用資約聘僱人員的權益保障問題那這個我們也一直在跟委員溝通那麼按照我們總原額法那麼已經有相關的規定所以我們建議不在本條條文在另針一項以上的說明"},{"start":2301.243,"end":2325.681,"text":"好 謝謝部長的說明那 法務部啊 啊不不 那個衛福部啊現在就是第四款喔 第四款加婦女權益保障婦女的福利服務社會參與啊 跟那個性侵害 性騷擾 防治加一個級你知道齁 呃 陳昭志委員你現在有創一個第二項嗎"},{"start":2329.003,"end":2354.621,"text":"對不對 那請陳昭志委員你也自己來說明一下好不好我們就是在第二條 第二條的部分第二條你給第二項對 第一 那個第二項這個是我們非常強調的部分就是說對於現在 因為當年其中一個單位 譬如以健保署來看當年是改制過的從國營事業進入到這個變成公家機構那當時有"},{"start":2357.063,"end":2382.56,"text":"雖然沒有正式的公務員考試,他們也經過招考所以他們可能一直留在約聘、聘用、聘僱的狀況下那這個時候因為整個組織要進行不管是整病等等的時候這個時候他們的基層的工作人員尤其是資深,相對也是資深,也貢獻很久了應該要給予一個最基本的保障就是他們目前的職位、職等,然後他們相關的工作"},{"start":2383.46,"end":2397.688,"text":"基本上要剛剛我在事前你們溝通第七條的內容我知道你們拿第七條來討論這個組織法但是我還是要講說那個法律是這樣子法律是應該要有哪些不代表說"},{"start":2399.089,"end":2410.415,"text":"這個完整是應該哪些,不應該哪些,現在法律有這些也不代表它是完備的那我們希望我們能夠具體的進入趙執委員,你的問題我聽到,他的第二項就是說原來這裡的人,你要怎麼處理衛福部當然是公務機關,跟這裡不同,但是他的第二項衛福部看你們的陳昭志委員這樣的一個意見你們的看法,來"},{"start":2425.675,"end":2454.123,"text":"人事總署 趙委 人事總 副人事長吳仁志長來我跟趙委跟這個趙志偉報告啦我剛剛會前也有跟趙志偉報告那我們很感謝這個趙志偉對我們競技同仁這個照顧的心意啦那權益保障的部分在組織法上面的處理大概分兩軌啦因為趙委是法律人應該很清楚 就是"},{"start":2456.609,"end":2470.616,"text":"剛剛趙志偉提到的那個第一類的就是制度改變機關性質改變事業機構的移到行政機關或者行政機關的移到事業機構這個他們身份上是有重大的改變"},{"start":2471.616,"end":2490.777,"text":"那這樣的改變才會在組織法裡面落條文那其他的像一般的這個隨同業務移撥的人員就是在剛剛趙志偉提到我們剛剛報告的就是在總委員法第七條上面就是做一般性的規範就是"},{"start":2491.923,"end":2517.597,"text":"因為你原來是公務員轉到事業機構或者是這個事業機構轉到公務機關來他不能適用他那個新的機關的制度嘛所以當然要在法律上特別在組織法上面在做規範那要不然在一般在中央這個行政機關組織機制法他規定的事項其實沒有這個事項是啦 他的意思是說他現在頂接工作權的保障有沒有解套的方法"},{"start":2518.757,"end":2541.152,"text":"我剛剛是做一個建議啦就是說請衛福部寫一個附帶決議的稿讓趙志遠看看能不能就是現在是大家希望能夠保障這些同仁嘛那我相信衛福部也一定會做到啦只是如果更大家希望居住率更強一點讓衛福部可以做得更好那我們寫一個附帶決議"},{"start":2545.234,"end":2572.64,"text":"阿寫的具體一點啦好啦你謹慎啦因為陳昭志委員這個提案其實也是很有建設性啦我本來想說要入法有什麼困難困難為什麼不能入法沒有因為他剛剛那個婦人市長他其實有講得很清楚啦公務機關跟事業單位是不一樣但是怎麼樣去保障他這些人員的工作權過去有權利喔過去勞工局跟健保署那種有權利他們的組織法裡面有寫的喔好來他現在說有權利請再說明"},{"start":2575.5,"end":2599.15,"text":"權益就是我剛剛報告的就是他的性質不同就是事業機構的人轉到行政機關去或者是行政機關轉到事業機構來那當然他的適用的人事制度就完全是不同的那所以在這個裡面就會做特別的規範去做他的權益保障這樣好了,我聽好了,您先附帶決議先寫出來好不好先寫一下,先擬一下,讓陳昭智委員看一下"},{"start":2604.417,"end":2631.133,"text":"主席不好意思我還是覺得用入法你如果有什麼特例什麼處理你把你用負債決議把它處理掉我們通過你們自己要內部的使用的負債決議啊你若擔心什麼你反投什麼東西到底會這個入這個法有什麼困難嗎有什麼這些人都在貴單位裡面服務這麼久相對都資深啦貢獻很久了嘛聽到有啦來再說明我再說明一下啦這個真的很感謝趙哲元對我們同仁的這個愛護啦"},{"start":2632.634,"end":2648.733,"text":"那因為制度的邏輯是很清楚就剛剛講的制度的轉換會有這樣的規範那一般性的權益保障會在總約法第七條裡面也做一個完整的規範那我們之所以會有一些顧慮就是因為所有的"},{"start":2651.052,"end":2665.859,"text":"同性質機關的轉換在他的組織法裡面都沒有這樣的規定那如果在衛福部特別做這樣的規定那大家就會有特別的期待那這個是有額外的另外的"},{"start":2667.94,"end":2681.929,"text":"絕對的保障嘛那我剛才也在講說他有可能衍生一些爭議啦譬如說如果我們每一個同仁都覺得我這個是絕對的保障譬如說現在我們大家比較關注的像霸凌"},{"start":2683.222,"end":2708.108,"text":"性騷或者是酒駕這些如果有這樣的情形的同仁的話那中間就會有一些爭議就想說你們能不能請我離開那因為一般其他的機關這一類的人都沒有這樣的規範就會有一些誤解跟爭議出來那我們是覺得效果如果沒有不同"},{"start":2709.383,"end":2735.875,"text":"就讓整個法的體系越清楚是這樣不然你們先看看不然這條要保留不要第一條卡關先寫一個 呈召委員看一下對於原先這一些的這一些人的工作的一個保障早知先讓他們看看不然這條第一條的保留也沒意思 好不好來 接下來第五條"},{"start":2737.341,"end":2743.806,"text":"接下來我們第五條我剛剛第二條有一個修正動議可以簡單說明一下嗎不只台灣民眾黨還有泛民委員"},{"start":2759.918,"end":2771.688,"text":"主要是第四項就是加上婦女權益保障婦女福利服務那等於是提升原本的保護絲讓他可以成為一個兼顧婦女權益及保護"},{"start":2773.109,"end":2790.704,"text":"那為什麼要有這個提案那我先謝謝部長認同這個方向所以他已經直接放在他的協商參考條文中了雖然後面的文字有幾個不一樣但我覺得精神上是一致的所以可以接受那我很簡要的說明一下為什麼要有這個提案"},{"start":2791.405,"end":2809.939,"text":"因為從一年之內台大醫院就爆發好幾起醫生對病人的性侵性騷猥褻的案而且是好幾起可以看到婦女的福利權益相關的業務在衛福部整體裡面還是處於一個比較邊陲的地帶"},{"start":2811.92,"end":2840.677,"text":"那根據社家署的統計現行的婦女福利科其實只有7個元額那業務也只佔社家署的0.12%那在公益彩券的回饋金中比例只有佔6.81%所以這一次很高興部長認同我提出來的要提高婦女業務的層級所以從原本規劃是長照發展署下的一個組別提高到二級機關那是跟原有的保護司合併"},{"start":2841.797,"end":2862.623,"text":"那這邊也跟大家跟部長講一下我知道部的關於私的名稱比較傾向於婦女發展及保護私那這邊很多婦團的朋友希望能夠優先考慮婦女權益及保護私因為如果沒有權益的話保護會做不好如果只強調婦女發展"},{"start":2864.363,"end":2883.931,"text":"好像婦女好像能力很差需要發展所以這邊也讓部長參考那最重要的是婦女團體認為不是只有提升層級人力跟預算一定要提升那希望能夠增設兩到三個科特別是要強調有政策研究的量能"},{"start":2884.651,"end":2907.79,"text":"所以那大家非常的擔心所以希望我有提出兩個附帶決議就是提升人力預算另外一個也是希望修法通過後衛福部可以邀請這些長期跟衛福部有一些合作或者是監督的婦女團體那共同討論未來的組織設計那這部分剛剛衛福部有一些修正我想我就到附帶決議再講那最後"},{"start":2910.072,"end":2932.005,"text":"就是也有婦團擔心說跟保護私放在一起好像婦女會被弱化所以也希望在組織的設計上要明確區隔就是婦女權益跟保護她的編制跟預算要獨立出來那不會讓大家覺得你這個私就只處理一個性別暴力以上說明 謝謝"},{"start":2932.945,"end":2956.009,"text":"好 謝謝范雲委員范雲委員所提的修正動議其實在衛福部第四款裡面對於整個婦女保障跟婦女福利的部分也把它放進去那其他的部分是不是請部長再說明一下有關剛剛謝謝范雲委員的這個提案附帶決議這個我們都朝這個方向來努力好 沒有問題好 謝謝這樣現在"},{"start":2963.042,"end":2969.966,"text":"第五條 第五條修正動議的部分我看我看有幾案這都附帶決議來我們是不是第五條的部分請衛福部"},{"start":2988.336,"end":3002.146,"text":"好跟委員會說明第5條我們也提出了這個協商的建議文字主要是針對本部的刺激機關跟業務來明定那上一次因為"},{"start":3003.587,"end":3021.875,"text":"有關於這個婦女權益業務的部分因為定位尚未明的時候所以我們把這個條文先保留那另外在兒家屬的任務上大家也還有一些建議那我們經過這一陣子的溝通之後已經把它確認所以最主要在第五款"},{"start":3022.535,"end":3038.581,"text":"那麼名稱是稱為兒少及家庭支持署那麼規劃執行與協調托育照顧早期療癒兒少福利權益保障家庭支持服務兒少健康及醫療照護四項那麼第六款是"},{"start":3039.601,"end":3051.778,"text":"把署的名稱改為社會發展及長期照顧署來規劃與執行高齡者身心障礙者權益與福利長期照顧"},{"start":3053.413,"end":3076.052,"text":"瓜湖戶及國民年金事項所以我們提出這樣的一個修正的建議再請各位委員指教至於今天在修正動議的部分那麼有關王振旭委員也有提出一個修正動議那麼基本上我們已經納入了這個"},{"start":3077.393,"end":3096.494,"text":"在第五款的兒少級家庭支持署裡面已經有納入這個執行與協調托育照顧的部分已經採納了那麼至於這個秋惠路委員也有提出這個修正的動議那基本上"},{"start":3101.479,"end":3118.836,"text":"那個邱惠露委員主要是在兒家屬的組織法所以我們剛剛的是針對第五條的部分先做這樣的說明部長的說明那衛務部所提供的"},{"start":3120.605,"end":3136.798,"text":"這個整個協商的參考的條文那剛剛王正旭委員是第五款就是兒少級家庭支持屬規劃及執行跟協調托育照護那都放進去了嘛那請問其他的委員對於第五條的部分有沒有意見沒有意見我們就叫衛福部第五條第五條第五條還有其他的你有什麼案要放嗎"},{"start":3149.636,"end":3177.408,"text":"沒有因為第五條我們看到就是我自己的版本是有關係到就是原住民健康署的部分那在協商的參考條文裡面我們看到現在有調整出一個兒少級家庭支持署還有社會發展及長期照顧署所以這個部分其實並沒有回應到我們許多原民委員的原住民族健康署"},{"start":3179.068,"end":3201.553,"text":"妳要不要特別要再弄一個出來就對了因為112年6月我們嘛很多的人的努力之下我們終於把十多年來的訴求原住民族健康法把它立法三讀通過那其實這些年我們也一直為健康不平等原住民族的平均餘命"},{"start":3202.253,"end":3222.694,"text":"跟全體國人的落差仍然經過這麼多年的努力還是有8歲的差距所以我們一直覺得說原住民族健康法立了但是沒有一個專責比較高層級的單位所以一直讓這個成效或者是他的經費有一個比較正規的一個"},{"start":3224.255,"end":3232.41,"text":"一個規模來做所以這個是這次應該蠻多委員在第五條的部分其實是有這樣的一個"},{"start":3237.612,"end":3256.578,"text":"謝謝委員對這個原住民族健康的關心那我們這一次在修法裡面也有其他委員的提案那我們是建議因為由於整個這個組織法的限制我們強化在私籍的單位提高他的人力跟預算是不是可以用在私籍的部分我們來處理"},{"start":3257.958,"end":3270.724,"text":"好因為確實啦因為要爭取一個數不容易我們只是看到這一次的這個調整齁有這樣的一個契機跟機會啦那我也看到很多我們也都喔不是這裡嗎喔不是這個第五條喔"},{"start":3275.294,"end":3299.888,"text":"我們現在討論的不是這個第五條現在是在講第五條但是你們講的有意見我們就要讓你去講沒關係好那既然謝謝部長已經有做這樣的回應所以我們在附帶決議也是有成立原住民健康司這樣的一個看法好那第五條大家沒有意見的話我們就按照協商參考條文通過再來第八條"},{"start":3305.906,"end":3317.838,"text":"對 八條 大家看一看喔盡量滿足大家啦 因為這個對於整個家庭兒少這方面的一個滿足 讓他更完備第八條第八條 還有什麼其他的 衛福部這裡也沒有提第八條"},{"start":3330.56,"end":3347.727,"text":"行政院第八條就是本法施行日期由行政院與命令定之本法中華民國一百零七年這個就改成直接把它改這邊"},{"start":3375.877,"end":3389.981,"text":"第八條你們打算要怎麼訂先說說好 因為這個案子半分也這麼多現在只是施行日期的問題而已啦"},{"start":3413.539,"end":3415.908,"text":"第二項要回到5月29然後把公佈刪掉下來"},{"start":3459.464,"end":3482.969,"text":"你們現在這個沒有條文啦我看這樣子啦你特別條這個每個委員都用心良苦啦現在直接要去落實你現在就是定義特別條另外一條行政院條第八條是本法施行日期由行政院以命令定之本法中華民國一百零七年五月二十九日修正條文自公佈日施行這樣可以嗎好"},{"start":3489.597,"end":3514.785,"text":"我們這邊照我們過去行政院各部會送進來我們都不接受行政院各部會我們要改為三讀記所以這邊是5月59日讓他那個條文弄因為每一個委員版本會有所不同那因為那個行政院院版你們沒有提出修正案嘛所以呢我們現在就是第八條的部分你沒修正當然這麼多人我就給你衝一條啦好啊好啊"},{"start":3517.187,"end":3529.167,"text":"這樣啦 不然這條你們現在說不出來了 我們再與委員溝通啦並參照委員的意見 研擬相關文之後再處理好不好第二項的日期改一下 加個第三項 仿第二項的寫法啦對"},{"start":3531.949,"end":3559.247,"text":"你不可以跟他說 你那條文要拿出來好 跟趙偉報告這個現在就是我們會再提出一個修正的建議主要是在這一次的這個修正的條文那麼要由行政院以命令訂之因為這涉及到幾個署的設立所以需要一點時間那至於原來的第二項 這個是過去那麼它是"},{"start":3561.509,"end":3580.144,"text":"這個過去的那個修正的那個到底是何時的條文我們做個修正日期就好那個6月13日好像是5月29啦對嗎 用這樣我們馬上弄出來就可以好啦 今天你們等一下有條文嗎現在在寫 好這樣還是讓你們寫出來 現在只剩條文而已嘛我們就直接處理附帶決議了啦 好不好"},{"start":3590.387,"end":3591.869,"text":"我們現在先處理附帶決議我們繼續處理協商會長范雲委員所提的附帶決議兩案先處理第一案請問提案委員有沒有補充說明范雲"},{"start":3603.476,"end":3622.381,"text":"范芸委員要處理你們大家的負擔決議出來我都幫你們處理那妳有沒有說明現在是那個妳的第一案第一案那我想先說明一下那第一案主要就是我們希望衛福部能夠邀集婦女團體性別研究學者討論會議"},{"start":3624.602,"end":3640.154,"text":"那我知道衛福部不想要用協商會議這個字眼那也可以用座談會主要就是我們剛講的大家關心的是人力跟預算有沒有提升那人力要提升的話你這個科的設計那增加要做什麼不要讓大家覺得"},{"start":3641.535,"end":3667.448,"text":"換湯不換藥只有在做性別暴力因為我們這邊還有婦女權益跟婦女福利那這個部分因為之前那個衛福部呂健德次長在跟婦女團體溝通的時候那他有承諾說可以再找大家討論那所以我希望說衛福部可以接受因為你們剛剛希望我修正文字那我覺得不要叫做會議但是叫座談好附帶決議第一案文字有沒有問題吳某"},{"start":3673.001,"end":3697.151,"text":"范雲委員所提附帶決議第一案文字有沒有問題謝謝委員同意把那個進行座談謝謝好那照修正通過那我們第一案就照學商後修正文字通過那我們繼續處理第二案請問提案委員第二案范雲委員也要理解喔你有沒有補充說明"},{"start":3699.534,"end":3728.745,"text":"好 那個第二案的部分其實也是一樣希望能夠在預算的部分可以增加那我想就是衛福部的意見是說針對第三點那個16種希望刪除我們可以接受那其他的部分也是希望跟剛剛講的不要只提升到私可是人力跟錢都沒有增加那這樣讓大家覺得是換湯不換藥因為原本就有一個家庭暴力私就是處理性別暴力的那請問衛福部"},{"start":3729.745,"end":3748.851,"text":"范雲委員的那個復賴結遇第二案有沒有什麼意見或者補充說明遵照辦理可以好那你們那個文字修正的就要你們要提供書面喔那第二案我們就照案就沒有修正囉沒有修正就照案通過囉"},{"start":3751.206,"end":3778.914,"text":"好 那我們現在繼續處理協商會場我們盧委員縣議 盧縣議委員所提的附帶決議案請問盧委員有沒有補充說明好 謝謝主席那剛才有聽到委員跟我們衛生福利部部長講的就是希望能夠在 他們也同意希望能夠在私的這個層級因為這是一個最基本的要求啦因為它比較不激進 而且它比較務實希望能夠做最基本最應該的制度回應"},{"start":3779.654,"end":3802.847,"text":"因為從2012年6月21號,研建法三讀通過之後就是希望有一個專責機構可是我們一直在等,等到這麼久了都沒有一個所謂的相對應的一個層級目前還是在原住民理導科所以我希望能夠將護理及照護健康師名稱變更為護理及原住民民主健康師這樣"},{"start":3804.096,"end":3810.337,"text":"好 請問衛福部針對盧憲義委員的附帶決議第一案有沒有什麼補充說明或意見可以接受 謝謝可以喔 那就照照案通過來 另外我們繼續處理協商的會場裡面我看江 吳立華委員所提的附帶決議請問吳立華委員有沒有補充說明"},{"start":3834.231,"end":3857.788,"text":"謝謝主席我延續剛才的發言最主要就是希望衛福部能夠在本席我們很多委員112年6月積極促成通過的原住民族健康法基礎之上要持續的投入資源並且要精進各項的原住民族健康照護政策來縮減健康不平等"},{"start":3858.348,"end":3883.485,"text":"所以呢就是在這個地方希望檢討現行的衛福部處務規程來新設一個援助民族健康及照護司然後來全面提升援助民族健康照護在行政體系內的組織定位還有它的一個政策的可見度彰顯政府對援助民族健康權益的重視以上"},{"start":3886.102,"end":3910.482,"text":"好 謝謝武力法委員的說明 衛部對於這個武力法委員所提的附帶決議有沒有意見 或補充說明跟委員說明 是不是可以按照剛剛那個盧憲宜委員的提案 那麼名稱上來做處理 可以嗎什麼名稱叫護理及援助民族健康師"},{"start":3911.976,"end":3940.423,"text":"護理及援助民族健康司那請問特別要加護理兩個字的原因是因為原本現在已經有啦所以把原本的那個司換後面的幾個字對 把它擴充編制跟預算來努力那意思就是說那個經費還是會跟護理share沒有沒有 分開的編的時候是分開編"},{"start":3941.283,"end":3955.711,"text":"那以前是離島對對對對那現在離島兩個字改成護理沒有沒有沒有沒有本來就沒有離島本來就沒有這個名稱本來只有護理這個名稱而已那以前我們以前是離島跟原住民族嗎"},{"start":3957.006,"end":3972.567,"text":"那個是科 現在是把它變成是師的理論那現在師的時候還是要前面掛一個東西就對了沒有辦法獨立他已經算是已經是獨立了可是我聽到護理 護理是一個主體耶"},{"start":3974.635,"end":3996.03,"text":"也不是它也只是兩個科護理是一個主體那還是跟人家併科然後變師併在一個師但是不是併科是分開的我當然是希望獨立一點對我是希望新設就還是獨立一點對我們逐步再擴充它的編制"},{"start":3996.57,"end":4005.081,"text":"好 逐步謝謝衛務部的說明但是也不能只有你們兩個這樣講一講啦書面 書面 提出書面是啦 這樣說看要怎麼如果原本來就有你現在又增加看怎麼樣變進去就"},{"start":4016.453,"end":4026.777,"text":"我們能夠得到最好的就要得到次要的這樣就照已經本來原住民族健康事項這樣吳立華委員的意見然後就依照盧縣醫委員的所提附帶決議通過這樣有意見嗎"},{"start":4034.059,"end":4048.53,"text":"按那個盧委員的各位我們可以啦請教一件事因為我本來很認真在研究這些密密麻麻的法案突然聽到護理兩個字就耳朵豎起來從夢中警醒的感覺沒關係不要嚇到"},{"start":4050.572,"end":4077.198,"text":"因為我們本來就有一個叫做護理及健康照護師嘛那這個是不受影響的嗎不受 只是說另外的那個師還前面加了護理兩個字對對對對所以合併喔因為本來的護理就不是只有一個師他就不是 業務不是獨立啦他裡面也是兩個科在負責那另外的是在負責離島啦還有這個偏鄉啦這樣"},{"start":4080.25,"end":4102.047,"text":"阿只是把長照業務現在我們把它移出然後讓原住民族的健康的業務擴大這樣這樣我聽得懂啦 謝謝邱委員還有我們石部長的補充說明你們這樣沒辦法處理啦你們還是 附帶決議你們要併還是要有一個文字出來有要加嗎 或是在那裡要加人的都完全都沒有改變喔來 接下來第五案這是古居化委員的附帶決議第二案"},{"start":4110.68,"end":4120.707,"text":"第五案就是武力法委員你所提的附帶決議第二案威武部有看到了有沒有補充說明你的意見是怎樣看起來還好"},{"start":4138.49,"end":4154.953,"text":"你們要不要給你們補充一下文字看你們要不要修正不然我要跪下這個是每一位委員大家都非常用心把整個在法制面裡面把它完整可以讓你們好做事有一個法院的依據"},{"start":4168.274,"end":4191.965,"text":"你們都沒準備耶我們盡量給大家大家關注面,大家都盡量滿足大家啦是啊,是啊,沒有錯啊,沒有錯啊對啦,阿不然就你們在附帶局文字課,整理一下好不好"},{"start":4196.209,"end":4223.65,"text":"我本來是 人家本來是很有效率的 你們這樣就沒準備了我也都可以保留啦 但問題就是說我是希望今天完成大家因為意見都整合得差不多 你們文字快寵啦等一下再回來討論這個 好不好這樣好啊 那就算了 你們的文字剛好適中 你們也安排給我"},{"start":4231.053,"end":4241.019,"text":"你們這一部法例好不容易達到各三黨委員大家都有一致性的一個看法那個只是文字的調整而已"},{"start":4267.028,"end":4286.904,"text":"那我先處理衛生福利部組織法第八條的修正草案那第八條本法施行日期由行政院以命令定之本法中華民國107年5月29日修正條文自公佈日施行本法"},{"start":4287.901,"end":4304.215,"text":"中華民國115年就 圈月 圈日修正條文施行日期 由行政院與命令定之文字都要搞好 都要念的一樣 可以齁好 大家沒有意見 我們就按照修正條文通過他們沒有提安全OK 沒問題他們是提供意見"},{"start":4320.933,"end":4321.194,"text":"沒有書面了"},{"start":4331.941,"end":4350.296,"text":"先保留 先保留因為我還是想知道那個經費規模人員編制沒關係 那給你再說明那現在就是說 你要捱 你總是要條文那個部分你要給我我們這邊才可以 主席總不能宣告你們聊天的暫照你們聊通內容通過啊 應該要文字啊 好不好好啦 先保留 先保留"},{"start":4354.962,"end":4361.507,"text":"來 那我們接著進行主題二 病案協商司法跟法治社會福利及衛生 跟衛環兩個委員會報告病案審查 行政院函請這個"},{"start":4368.342,"end":4381.33,"text":"委員林月琴等20人 阿伯一堆就沒了分別凝聚衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持署的組織法草案一共14案還有委員徐宇珍17人 委員沈發慧17人分別經第四次聯會 淨富二讀"},{"start":4389.436,"end":4393.38,"text":"第四次跟第五次的院會決定淨富二讀與相關提案來併案協商以上一共有三個案在今天我們併案來做一個協商"},{"start":4400.816,"end":4415.724,"text":"那我們審查會在1月19號審查完畢審查的結果跟大家報告說除第二條第三條跟附帶決議三案保留以外其餘都有審查結果通過並決議須交由黨團協商那我們為了求效率我們是不是就保留了部分來進行討論其他有共識的部分就按照審查會的審查結果通過"},{"start":4426.63,"end":4448.272,"text":"那如果各位協商代表對於審查會通過的條文有意見我們就等保留條文處理完畢以後再來接續的進行處理請問各位有沒有意見這樣可以喔 好來現在我們開始本案保留條文的討論審查會保留兩條需要協商有兩條我們從第二條開始第二條"},{"start":4450.319,"end":4462.39,"text":"喔 第二條兩個修正動議就是台灣民眾黨跟林瑞琼委員所以呢請是不是先請台灣民眾黨家你要先嗎不然就來 林瑞琼委員"},{"start":4469.305,"end":4495.823,"text":"我這邊有幾個要就教的就是說本來事實上是嚴定後來改成嚴尼如果是嚴尼的話事實上他側重在初步的一個擬定是一個從無到有和提出草案的過程那可是你是主管機關我最在我看來應該你們前面也寫嚴定為什麼後來變成是嚴尼所以我對這個有這樣子的意見然後另外一個就是我的修正動議有"},{"start":4497.29,"end":4519.119,"text":"之前我就提這個修正動議可是後來明娜今天又再提出來也就是說本來這一次成立兒家屬我們覺得很重要的意義在於表意權這一塊和參與公共就是社會參與所以本來我們有列兒童及少年權益及發展與促進及其參與公共事務相關政策之評估規劃"},{"start":4520.6,"end":4543.591,"text":"推動跟執行及相關法規的原定我不知道就是說為什麼今天衛福部會把它當初我們有修正動議進來的時候你們還是把它剔除那我今天又再提出來今天我說你要符合兒權公約的精神裡面有一個這個是非常重要的不知道為什麼會把它丟掉了那另外一個就是說"},{"start":4544.491,"end":4559.979,"text":"你們提出來的版本裡邊跟我的有個差異的是我們針對於網路安全這一塊事實上是希望而造的隱私保護保障跟網路使用安全跟風險的防治政策的評估規劃推動執行跟相關法規的嚴定"},{"start":4563.601,"end":4589.43,"text":"可是為何你們會變成只剩下一個協調你跟誰協調你們本來這個兒家族成立我們現在很希望能夠解決網路安全的問題結果你變成只是一個協調單位嗎你的工作內容只是一個協調嗎那最後也要問就是有一個你們提出來第六兒童及少年遊戲及休閒政策的推動跟協調"},{"start":4590.911,"end":4614.057,"text":"也一樣剩下只是協調另外一個我要問的是休閒是上位概念休氣跟遊戲事實上是下層的概念所以我不知道說當初這樣子定的考量會是什麼因為要不要從定義來看因為休閒就南瓜休氣跟遊戲所以我不知道你們這樣子把它全部列出來"},{"start":4614.639,"end":4619.522,"text":"主席還有各位委員大家好我們在第二條的部分的第二款在那個"},{"start":4638.314,"end":4649.92,"text":"我來念一下好不好意思就是在兒童及少年的保護安置之後我們加了幾個字這幾個字叫做偏差行為防治與輔導"},{"start":4655.323,"end":4673.078,"text":"我們加了偏差行為防治與輔導那為什麼我們會加了偏差行為防治與輔導因為有一些偏差行為的小孩他們其實原本是在內政部警政署下面的少婦會來對這類型的兒少進行輔導"},{"start":4677.381,"end":4699.291,"text":"但是因為內政部警政署他們處理這一塊比較欠缺專業所以有一些偏差行為的小孩即使經過他們的輔導跟教化其實成效並不高因為他們欠缺專業那其實最有名的一個案例就是前一陣子那個新北的戈井案"},{"start":4700.151,"end":4716.847,"text":"其實那個殺人的兇手 殺人的少年他其實進入關護所 少年關護所非常多次進進出出 進進出出那也在少年關護所可能沒有得到非常好的輔導 教育 教化 感化"},{"start":4717.708,"end":4734.225,"text":"所以變成他再出來的時候就犯了又犯了一個滔天大錯所以這讓我們去思考說是不是對於偏差行為的少年我們真的是要深入的專業的去輔導他們然後以其他們的行為能夠做一個改正然後避免為社會的治安埋下一個隱憂的炸彈所以我們才想說"},{"start":4738.409,"end":4761.805,"text":"這麼專業的事也不是任何人都可以做的必須仰賴專業的人員來協助那當然我們的衛福部當然就是充滿這些專業的人員可以來進行這件事所以我們才想說把偏差行為的防治跟輔導放到這個兒少及家庭支持署裡面這個業務放進來那其實完全都是專業考量那也希望能夠讓少年"},{"start":4763.726,"end":4770.655,"text":"能夠得到專業的照顧之後 迷途知返 以上說明 謝謝好 謝謝 讓你們這個委員都很專業其實委員也很厲害所以專業對專業 我盡量來滿足各位來 接下來請王正旭委員"},{"start":4781.207,"end":4799.266,"text":"謝謝主席對這個二元委員會的美言真的每個委員都非常的用心那針對第二條的第八款有關於從原來的兒童少年福利機構業務之監督輔導及考核現在把它修正為變成"},{"start":4801.068,"end":4818.264,"text":"現在的文字就是第八款 兒童及少年之生命統計健康促進預防保健 事故傷害防治及醫療照護政策之規劃推動執行及協調非常感謝大家共同支持 針對這個協調能夠把它"},{"start":4820.726,"end":4838.32,"text":"正式的納為這個法律的條文裡面我們之前一直在強調協調本身的工作的重要性所以我們很希望大家把這個支持的內容真的能夠化為這個法律上的文字再再度感謝大家的支持 謝謝"},{"start":4840.869,"end":4847.355,"text":"謝謝王正旭委員我們現在就請衛務部 石部長我這邊可不可以再一下補充謝謝主席我這邊剛才因為有一些討論也有一些決定了所以這邊就把我的立場也做一個表述所以一向對於在原住民族健康的部分"},{"start":4860.868,"end":4886.781,"text":"其實在這次的這個組織法裡面我之前也是表述過但我在這邊還是針對這個第二條的這個區塊我還是做一個補充啦雖然剛才也有一些階段性的結論但我認為在原住民族的這個健康那把它跟一般事物的一個混同在一起在政策治理上還是有一些不足那本席在先前也一直表達那因為原住民的平均餘命的這樣一個階段性的問題其實如果在這一次的這個組織"},{"start":4891.743,"end":4917.151,"text":"組織法裡面能夠做一個處理也是很好的那我這邊的訴求當然是說說這個醫療的這個問題不是只有單一的問題那也涉及了一個文化安全還有健康不平等跟長照世界性還有人才培育的一個問題那但是呢我們在第二條看起來也是原住民的這個部分好像還是一個被附帶處理的但是我希望未來能夠再走向一個制度的一個承擔"},{"start":4918.351,"end":4933.124,"text":"那這次新增了兒少跟家庭的支持當然也是很重要但是像原住民的這個部分其實本席還是要表達啦雖然剛才有一些結果但我覺得私處的層級還是不足以回應這整個社會的一個複雜性所以"},{"start":4933.844,"end":4945.69,"text":"我覺得在中長期我們還是希望能夠上升到一個專責的一個機關的一個層級所以原住民除了健康如果在今天的這個大家的一個討論那目前有一個共識可是我還是希望未來能夠到屬的這樣一個層級來針對原住民現在健康與命"},{"start":4953.074,"end":4976.121,"text":"還沒有跟進跟到整個標準的一個狀況能夠做一些中長期的一個規劃所以我還是比較在數的這個部分原住民族健康數那跟我以前所提出來的一個論點這邊再做個回應那當然我也尊重大家今天的一個決議啦謝謝林倩琪委員用心良苦啦我們也請衛務部這個部分其實對原住民族的健康這個部分也可以加強來接下來還有"},{"start":4978.983,"end":4989.309,"text":"張雅玲委員 欸你今天都不能亂喔我今天兩張臉是 我一些咖啡都喝光了你知道嗎 來張雅玲委員好 那我想 接下來張雅玲委員完以後 就讓我們黃毓民 黃毓民委員 失禮失禮失禮"},{"start":4998.029,"end":5016.264,"text":"我想在針對那個衛福部的第六條關於兒少的遊戲跟休閒政策我原本提案是這樣子寫的原因我也簡單說明一下讓各位委員更了解其實我是參考CRC的原文"},{"start":5017.765,"end":5043.766,"text":"他是有時間去休閒 休閒遊戲跟遊戲啦原本的CRC的原文是這樣寫所以我在立法的時候就這樣寫那因為它對應到就是兒童的遊戲發展這一塊的一個政策核心那另外還有就是空間跟設施也就是遊戲那休閒也就是時間跟生活型態這樣子那我當時的立法是這樣的一個概念那我不曉得說衛福部是不是也是參考這樣子的立法來做這次的這個條文上的修正這樣 謝謝"},{"start":5045.114,"end":5046.335,"text":"在我原來的版本裡面 事實上有把這個少子化 特別是生育相關政策"},{"start":5060.649,"end":5078.051,"text":"我的版本裡面是有的那現在衛福部的這個版本事實上都沒有看到那另外一個是有關於處罰跟曝險兒童少年的處遇服務那你們這邊是用兒童及少年輔導之統籌我不曉得這一塊是不是就已經涵蓋"},{"start":5078.952,"end":5092.89,"text":"那另外討論第二條事實上很重要的是關乎到未來整個兒少家庭署他的整個出屋規程跟內部單位的分工還有那個組織所以這個部分我有提一個附帶決議"},{"start":5094.732,"end":5115.208,"text":"這裡面呢就是總共有分了六組就是六個組別那我希望討論第二條的時候跟後面的附帶決議事實上它應該是要連動的就是不太可能說這個後面我們希望的組別裡面的任務有的但是在前面你的這一個第二條裡面"},{"start":5116.108,"end":5140.525,"text":"是沒有寫入的 譬如說少子化我認為將來在政策規劃的時候少子化是很重要的一塊那如果未來在這一個組織架構裡面我們希望綜合企劃裡面包含少子化這一塊但是在前端其實都沒有寫到這一塊是不是應該要有一些文字修正進去這樣子這個部分我希望這個等一下部長可以回應 針對"},{"start":5142.13,"end":5155.884,"text":"我提出來的這個架構分組裡面就是要執行的業務內容你們有什麼樣的意見然後是同意還是有一些要修正是不是可以一併來回應因為這個跟前面第二條其實非常關鍵 以上謝謝"},{"start":5165.647,"end":5186.063,"text":"簡單跟委員會報告第一個就是少子女化我們沒有把它寫在這個兒家屬是因為他是要更高層級的那我們的任務主要是對育兒者跟這個兒童的福利盡量給他提升這個是我們這個屬要扮演的角色對育兒者"},{"start":5186.516,"end":5197.688,"text":"跟這個兒童的照顧要給他提升所以才會我們沒有特別去訂這個少子女化因為不是這個署有辦法解決少子女化的問題"},{"start":5200.223,"end":5223.283,"text":"這個在跨層級的在行政院的層級會去有啦有一個跨部會的會議會在討論這個有關因為它對應的政策很多它包含住宅政策包含職場的友善包含勞力的沒錯但是對應到你衛福部你自己要有一個在思考這件事情的單位你要放在哪裡"},{"start":5223.883,"end":5238.408,"text":"你懂我意思嗎 就少子化涉及到很多嘛那你們衛福部也本部的業務也不只是只有這個署應該是在部裡面要來 所以是哪個單位哪個單位 你衛福部下面還有哪個單位在思考少子化這件事情"},{"start":5239.211,"end":5255.593,"text":"如果是我們就是有綜合規劃來來這個這屬於這跨部門會不會綜合規劃對啊如果是跨部門屬於報部報部會放進去嘛對不對對對對就是在綜合規劃你的綜合規劃師會有嗎就你不放在兒家屬你自己會有對對對我們目前相關的"},{"start":5257.415,"end":5277.697,"text":"政策上在提的時候也都是好謝謝 謝謝石部長的說明那我們現在來做處理那我們第二條我們就按照協商參考的條文通過大家有沒有意見沒有意見的話我們就通過來 再來不好意思那個剛剛還沒回答我就是有關於"},{"start":5278.82,"end":5288.217,"text":"我剛剛講嚴定嚴密還有一個是我原本有列的因為我覺得要符合兒權公義很重要的精神在於"},{"start":5290.344,"end":5318.499,"text":"就是我本來有寫的兒童及少年權益的發展跟促進參與公共事務這一項好 跟委員說明這個嚴定跟嚴擬這個是法規用字因為它不見得是只有定是嚴擬因為有些涉及到還要立法立法的話要到立法院不是我們定出來就可以所以現在的文字上都是用嚴擬而不再用嚴定至於說有一款兒少權益之發展及促進"},{"start":5319.479,"end":5340.275,"text":"這個我們可以接受把它新增進去就好新增一款還有一個你們寫的我覺得今天網路安全你們不會剩下協調這個工作所有的東西都寫說你們會推動執行尤其網路安全現在是重中之重怎麼今天成立了兒家屬你們只剩下一個政策協調"},{"start":5341.616,"end":5362.284,"text":"你們政策也不要執行也不要去做任何事情然後只剩下一個協調好不好那就改成原理及跨機關政策協調還要執行啊規劃跟 第二條捏如果全部都推給我們第二條捏 這個一定會有觸發第二條捏第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條"},{"start":5363.513,"end":5383.832,"text":"在他的13款就是會新 我們可以接受這個林月琴委員的這個修正動議裡面有一款第七款這個兒少發展及促進參與公共事務這個我們等一下把文字寫出來新增一款"},{"start":5384.472,"end":5404.13,"text":"那最後一個是 好啦 那這個第二條齁 主席在這個地方更正啦 更正啦 齁 你這 你這教你講 你們早上應該講好了 這協商條文 你們這做好了來這裡給你們開槓的捏那這個本來就是要幫大家來做處理的 齁 那所以剛剛主席的宣告 更正 口誤 講得最快齁 趕快把文字拿出來"},{"start":5408.433,"end":5434.714,"text":"要有文字啦要有文字好不好要在那個本來是參考條文跟你們協商條文參考你們現在講一講主席可以做更正但是你們必須要把文字拿出來來我們現在第三條第三條台灣民眾黨所提的修正動議請來台灣民眾黨家補充說明一下"},{"start":5438.597,"end":5460.052,"text":"我第一問好了 柏中你對台灣民眾人的意見 你有修正黨的意見嗎我們是希望還是能夠保留用人的彈性不要說只是只能夠以公職任用 可以有比照任用的模式這樣啦 那個 趙志"},{"start":5463.475,"end":5474.519,"text":"陳大致委員 民眾委員 我們就一個叫衛福部的意見好不好行政院的 他們現在修正棟一家 我們就叫行政院一家啦好不好"},{"start":5481.283,"end":5481.523,"text":"主席"},{"start":5505.687,"end":5521.396,"text":"是要讓你們大家這樣和和氣氣 你們的愛很滿足因為我們叫做司法法治委員會 我們沒有跟你們揮櫃你知道嗎 是你們來我們盡量滿足各位不要到現在還在爭執啦 不然我就自己給你們算一算我是要讓你們大家比較高興的 今天晚上快過了好不好 不然就叫可以嗎 周資 叫行政院辦分"},{"start":5538.973,"end":5552.597,"text":"主席建議啦是不是按照行政院的提案通過啦哈囉不好意思我們討論的結果因為我們是希望常任穩關的制度能夠健全然後能夠發展所以我們這一條"},{"start":5555.444,"end":5581.035,"text":"要含保留要保留 其實我也認為說健全其實常任文官跟政務官現在是剛好涉入到各個政黨之間大家最會緊張啦這個都過度攻防啦不然其實政務官的部分未必也叫做不健全啦大家正統都希望比較有彈性啦應該去跟監督說這個人來是不是醜庸譬如說你把莊瑞雄放到衛福部去當然就是醜庸啊"},{"start":5582.856,"end":5591.682,"text":"不是這樣說 問題是這個堅持這個尊教練的意思好不好今天是希望讓這個瓦置趕快去做一個完備那這一條我們就先保留囉"},{"start":5597.315,"end":5597.895,"text":"請問提案委員先做補充說明"},{"start":5627.735,"end":5651.256,"text":"張雅玲委員基本上因為我跟衛福部已經討論好了啦就是說我們基本上就是希望有一定的一個編制啦不能用三級機關的名義來做壓縮那也要有資訊專業的源而以及研究跟政策的專業源那這基本上衛福部都同意啦那只是說他們希望可以改成書面報告那這邊我也沒有意見好 謝謝 來台灣民眾黨"},{"start":5661.836,"end":5680.284,"text":"這個部分我剛有講過就是我的版本是有分六個組別那事實上這個也是民間兒少團體希望的一個架構那現在大家都會很想要知道說這個兒少家庭署其實是非常關鍵也是這一次我們組織調整重中之重"},{"start":5681.024,"end":5709.251,"text":"那不曉得到目前為止整個衛福部你們初步的規劃包括人員包括是不是這樣的架構組別這樣至少是六組的一個情況我希望這個衛福部應該跟外界有一個說明因為今天已經審到這邊附帶決議我想有多位委員提出來的都是跟這個組織架構有關組別有關裡面的這一些任務功能有關那到底現在衛福部自己的版本"},{"start":5710.114,"end":5737.856,"text":"大概是什麼樣的架構 為什麼部長突然不見來 請衛福部說明各位委員報告目前衛福部這邊在規劃未來的兒少及家庭支持署的細部的組別組織的部分我們目前整個規劃架構確實是以六個組的方向來做規劃不過六個組裡面細部的有一些細部的事項"},{"start":5738.616,"end":5753.287,"text":"是不完全就是有些因為各個委員的這個附帶決議的內容這個事項放在組別稍微有些不一樣那這個部分的話我們大概會到時候再討論過做一些條大概做一些整理但是目前基本上是以六個組的方向在做討論跟規劃"},{"start":5757.791,"end":5772.944,"text":"人員的部分的話現有的工作人員都會做一個移撥那也在評估未來考慮到比較長期的人力發展需要那不過未來確定的組織以及人力的部分還需要跟這個人事總署這邊來做相關人力的爭取以上"},{"start":5777.825,"end":5793.649,"text":"那這個我也一樣 因為我也其實還有一個附帶決議那這個是跟這個組織架構是有關係的那其實我這邊還有強調一個就是原則上每一組不得少於四顆啦來確保我們的人力配置充足那所以這部分應該也是沒有問題嘛 對不對"},{"start":5796.324,"end":5812.388,"text":"我們會盡力來爭取好啦 我知道那個兩邊的衛福部的協商參考條文那個附帶決議的部分跟台灣民眾兩家 你們寫一個版本出來啦 好不好報告主席 我們正在整理趕快 給我文字這樣文字好嗎"},{"start":5826.04,"end":5847.894,"text":"來 謝謝 文字是哪一個該好啊 我看該如何你們現在該在哪裡這是這一個 哪一個哇 這要怎麼量我買"},{"start":5850.595,"end":5876.734,"text":"沒有啦 你要有一個文字看要怎樣 我不能給你們說改這個 這樣就沒有形成出來 文字念不出來好 可以 那就以現在你提這個版本林月琴按照林月琴委員修正動議所提版本第二條這也要運給大家 這樣不行每一個委員都要有才可以"},{"start":5878.593,"end":5907.039,"text":"我簽沒問題啊 其他委員也都要看到啊有有有有都盡量把大家的意見放進去但是那個文字要去做整理來 抱歉抱歉抱歉 不好意思謝謝主席那我們台灣民眾黨在這邊做一個補充說明那就是關於這個兒少家庭署它裡頭會有六個內部單位那六個內部單位"},{"start":5908.539,"end":5924.366,"text":"當然就涉及分工跟職長的相關說明那我們在那個第二個內部單位就是兒少保護安置署這邊我們有加進去一個叫兒少偏差行為防治輔導的業務項目"},{"start":5928.714,"end":5950.581,"text":"這是台灣民眾黨我們加進去的那除此之外在第一個內部單位就兒少健康組他有一個房子照顧括號後面本來是講含淹害房子但是因為我們覺得少年他可能不只有遭受淹害的襲擊他可能日常生活校園內"},{"start":5951.781,"end":5969.926,"text":"也會接觸到一些非法物質濫用的可行性可能性所以我們這邊就把那個煙害比較侷限的一個名詞把它擴大成非法物質濫用 那非法物質濫用就可以把一些可能是毒品 可能是煙 可能是什麼的把它涵蓋進去好 以上說明"},{"start":5970.566,"end":5994.148,"text":"好 謝謝 我要再次強調說明因為今天審查的是組織法組織法在我們司法法治委員會如果不是在你們為人家你們最在意的那召委是盡量滿足大家只是因為組織法我必須要我來排我盡量把你們納進來我這樣苦口婆心你們若不愛我待會把你們保留都要處理"},{"start":5994.989,"end":6002.173,"text":"我本來是要讓你們開開心心 你們待會兒 咻 就在那裡拍照啊你們現在沒有了沒有了 我就要幫你們剝離 有沒有處理啊我已經很盡力在協商了 好不好好 來 就這樣 嘿沒有 我不知道你們沒說好事啦我本來想說你們如果聽完說會好事你就衛福部這樣擬一擬出來我念念你們大家就開心到這樣還有現在第三案喔 請問"},{"start":6018.922,"end":6047.643,"text":"我們繼續來處理保留的負債決議有三案現在我們第三案那請問這個提案的委員有補充說明嗎那剛剛我們的負債決議是通過還是怎麼樣沒有沒有 剛才的保留所有的負債決議都保留嗎沒有有嗎負債決議你們不是說沒有問題嗎沒有 剛兩個沒有問題啦你們就文字出來嘛剛才案的保留嘛"},{"start":6048.513,"end":6070.028,"text":"因為你們就有意見啦我們的負債決議有問題嗎沒有問題啊 主席沒問題啦沒有問題的就文字給我那個一案一案處理嘛不是不是不是你們審查會保留的部分你們剛才看你們大家十幾九八鐘一直說要加進去我就給你們加要加進去之後你們要文字給我啊沒有啦 我們今天有幾案已經結束OK了"},{"start":6082.199,"end":6089.509,"text":"好啦 台灣民眾黨你有案啦 蔣麗玲委員你有案啦 你們大家都有案啦不是 是 你們要哪一個版本是嘛 問題你們兩個的文字不一樣 你們要給我一個啊 看要怎麼樣"},{"start":6114.081,"end":6120.907,"text":"我先來做處理原來審查報告附帶決議的第三案我看張惠玲妳也有簽名那我們就照修正動議通過第三案"},{"start":6135.221,"end":6157.76,"text":"不 附帶決議 附帶決議第三案 按照修正文字通過再來 您其他的版本那衛福部回應一下 我的部分因為剛才我通過了 你說了 我跟他說我做更正啦是要讓你們加進去嘛 加進去你們就要有書面嘛不是你們講好了 我要看到書面啊"},{"start":6159.571,"end":6170.737,"text":"我們本來就有提附帶決議那附帶決議可能衛福部表示意見如果沒有問題就可以通過那衛福部那個王玉民委員的說明衛福部有沒有意見"},{"start":6178.868,"end":6199.857,"text":"我們要不要一案一案過就附帶決議題剛才那個就過了沒有沒有就是我剛是一案一案我本來過了那林瑞琴委員你還有你的看法嘛那我就更正嘛我就更正讓你們再提文字修正給我嘛我還主席還沒有主席還沒有看到文字啊我怎麼宣告你不會逼我這裡啦你那文字給我"},{"start":6207.849,"end":6223.32,"text":"主席主席我得有文字啦不是 我說剛剛那個剛剛做文字修正的部分等一下 等一下 等一下來 按一下再回來同櫃 我們剛才同櫃在"},{"start":6237.708,"end":6257.265,"text":"第三案通過了對 按照修正文字通過了來 現在第一案第一案是王玉敏的第一案是王玉敏 王委員的我們沒有問題 我們可以遵照來 原來第一案你的附帶決議有三個對啊對不對 那"},{"start":6267.267,"end":6287.684,"text":"因為你們都跟內部單位分工跟執掌建議相關聯嘛那要申請通告啊我 蔡英文也有 王一民也有 這樣就要叫上個班分"},{"start":6291.598,"end":6300.38,"text":"因為全部都是內部分工跟職長那你們各有版本我要按照哪一個版本通過因為你們的長得不一樣啊你們三個都通過了 那個衛護部怎麼辦"},{"start":6320.014,"end":6345.497,"text":"妳的是哪一案?我的是第一案的附帶決議五啊我剛才保留,我現在做達成共識做修正文字好,那修正...好,修正...一人一人來,現在先第二案還是第二案?修正動議五啊,妳文字咧?還沒有處理到妳的啊不會啦,啊不會,啊不會,這先來附帶決議先來"},{"start":6352.225,"end":6357.008,"text":"那是審查會保留這麻煩不是"},{"start":6407.28,"end":6407.942,"text":"好 我們先休息齁"},{"start":6628.291,"end":6643.619,"text":"不是 沒有文字啦沒有文字啦今天說好就好來 那個我們現在會議 我們繼續開會啦來 主席跟大家報告啦請坐坐 請坐坐"},{"start":6645.049,"end":6668.347,"text":"主席本來以為啊這個法案啊各個政黨大家有所關注在未完委員會裡面啊我看大家是以為大家喬的差不多那我看還是有很多的分歧啊那我們司法法治委員會的你這個整個組織法一定都是到送到司法法治委員會來大家也知道我主持的風格我盡量來滿足各位可是因為你們這個文字弄不出來啦會啦會盡量滿足你們我們則其在協商大家"},{"start":6675.297,"end":6690.762,"text":"你不用煩惱 大家說好就會交你的意見今天講好的部分 就照這個會通過這個不用擔心啦 只要我們找個時間啦大家 因為衛生部裡面等一下 等一下 你們等一下 不要講話衛生部你們現在是告訴我們 各政黨都說好了 結果他有說好"},{"start":6695.762,"end":6715.15,"text":"有 成長日圍就沒有太多不然成長日圍你太花了 我想說有我是要做餅...不不不 我是要做餅蓋給你們 不不不我們對於兒家屬這個部分我知道各位很...大家非常在意那我在跟..."},{"start":6717.091,"end":6742.573,"text":"我看王正旭委員 林瑞琴委員 張雅琳委員你也都一直跟我們溝通了很多 我也盡量來滿足各位那陳昭志 台灣民眾黨 或者說中國國民黨這邊所提出來的意見 我們也都非常尊重但是我看你們今天文字是弄不出來的啦這樣啦 石部長你再跟各黨團家 跟衛環的委員再溝通一下"},{"start":6743.7,"end":6753.385,"text":"文字出來 我再一次時間我就幫你們通過好不好好 那我們擇期再協商啦好不好那我們今天會議就 協商會議就到這個地方"},{"start":6762.369,"end":6778.32,"text":"統統沒人簽啦 不要啦 不要啦這個 那個今天齁 大家各政黨之間 還開誠布公今天大家有共識的 到最後大家也沒有人會耍賴啦因為今天你這個案子 大家所關注的很正面的啦 好不好 我們則即再協商今天協商到這裡 散會"}]}},{"id":"168337","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168337","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc77368218f699a0a060a49e36d97d29c5f8ce3249aa741ed418ce2492c85169a165ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱慧洳","委員發言時間":"09:40:00 - 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雇主已經慢慢的意識到說用違約金條款來約束護理人員的離職自由 其實很容易因為它無效而約束不住所以開始改弦易策 那個腦筋就慢慢動到其他的方式 例如說留任獎金"},{"start":94.313,"end":111.651,"text":"早期會比較用違約金的方式去約束護理人員的自由那現在比較洋氣用違約金但洋氣並不是完全根絕如果完全根絕就沒有必要上次來這邊再跟部長對於違約金的事情來做交流那現在就是他們"},{"start":113.412,"end":126.878,"text":"比較傾向是用留任獎金的方式去留住護理人員的心去留住護理人員的人在職場因為畢竟留任獎金是一個鼓勵性質的手段那所以我這邊先給部長看一下這個"},{"start":128.038,"end":155.016,"text":"留任獎金的這個手段真的是已經慢慢出現在醫院要留人的方式了那這是上個禮拜的這個報導那這邊就提到說台中醫院為了留人所以呢三年祭出18萬意思就是護理人員如果能夠認滿三年就可以取得18萬的留任獎金那這個是去年12月9號的新聞那這是一個地方政府介入"},{"start":155.916,"end":173.477,"text":"在要如何去挽救護理人力的故事那台東縣政府他就宣布他投入4000萬然後呢作為這7家醫院在留任護理人員的時候給予留任獎金的一個後盾給予留任獎金的一個後盾"},{"start":174.258,"end":194.628,"text":"那這個羅東醫院是在去年的5月9號其實這就是在護師節的前夕所以護師節的前夕是會有一些放送的那我這邊提醒部長今年的護師節是5月12號那通常護師節的前夕會有放送一些東西那個什麼薪資的提升 勞動小生的改善所以我這邊先預告給部長知道還有一個月的時間可以準備看要送什麼禮物給護理人員那羅東博愛醫院他們就是"},{"start":203.593,"end":220.838,"text":"祭出了兩年12萬的留任獎金那一樣屏東縣也是在去年護士節的前夕那就說我們縣內的7家醫院趕快過來跟我喝一個大和解咖啡和解什麼呢就是你們要祭出"},{"start":221.638,"end":246.822,"text":"高的留任獎金然後跟遠離跟逃離醫界的護理師和解了不要讓他們覺得這裡很不溫暖然後都要跑到外面去工作所以我們祭出這個獎金應該是說我們號召醫院來去討論這些獎金的必要性那政府能夠給予什麼一些的資源政府會提出那所以18家醫院也從善如流"},{"start":247.042,"end":270.416,"text":"那分別祭出一萬到十萬不等的留任獎金所以我們可以從這些新聞其實都是近期的新聞然後可以看到說醫院其實他慢慢的想用一些鼓勵性的方式把護理人員留下來好那現在這就是我要請教部長一個最重要的一個層次的問題了當然給留任獎金是沒有問題的可是留任獎金的發放時間點"},{"start":273.258,"end":289.623,"text":"發放在前或發放在後可能會有不同的糾紛的呈現那我先跟部長說明一下我們舉一個具體的例子例如說有個護理師他承諾在這家醫院任滿12個月然後12個月之後他就能夠取得留任獎金3.6萬這樣子那現在是"},{"start":293.024,"end":313.595,"text":"以A情境來說好了這個護理人員他進來上班然後呢他就坐著坐著真的轉眼間坐到12月了好啊坐到12月了嘛12月就能夠有3.6萬的留院獎金所以這時候呢醫院就發3.6萬的留院獎金給他這是A情境那B情境呢是他"},{"start":314.839,"end":332.431,"text":"願意在這邊任滿12個月那當然也要領到3.6萬的獎金但是僱主的發放時間點是在他就職的時候就給他就職只是就職第一天所以意味著你先把錢拿進放在你的口袋了但是未來12個月你要好好在這邊跟我們工作"},{"start":334.873,"end":362.972,"text":"那前面那種借其認滿所給予的留任獎金比較沒有爭議但是後面這個預付性的留任獎金會有一個問題什麼問題呢你答應人家做滿12個月但是錢也已經進你的口袋了啊但是呢你做不滿12個月你再11個月就離職了那現在請問放進去你口袋那一筆三萬六你要全部退出來還給雇主還是要部分退出來還給雇主"},{"start":368.356,"end":388.334,"text":"這個委員這其實就我知道可能有一些進到法院的訴訟啦那這可能的確也會有這個法官對這事情比方說也許也許會有些法官會認為是案比例或者是什麼我覺得可能要進入到各不同的個案的我們等一下就看個案好等一下就看個案那我們看一下"},{"start":389.395,"end":407.71,"text":"你說進入法官的審判階段我覺得當然程序會進入那邊但是前提就是說你有沒有法律可以給法官認識用法的時候去試用我的第一個問題就是他會進入訴訟訴訟進去之後法官也是依照勞基法第幾條認識"},{"start":409.631,"end":425.738,"text":"認定事實然後適用法律進而去得出一個結論那所以你要有法條你要有法律給法官去適用啊那問題這個就是有我要問你問部長的就是說請問勞基法幾十條當中有沒有一條是在規範留任獎金的"},{"start":429.115,"end":454.22,"text":"方委員我們上次討論文言執教的那個服務年限也是一樣有兩種邏輯第一種邏輯就是給你訓練第二邏輯就是說給你一筆簽約金也是在那個條文的範圍裡面也會經過那些條文的來考量有沒有限制的必要然後還有那個金額跟你要返還的金額的比例有沒有相當一樣有那個合理性的必要性的審視一樣那個條文可以適用"},{"start":455.97,"end":473.744,"text":"喔 我知道你在講什麼嘛因為那個有兩個情境嘛一個情境就是給訓練費用一個條文就是給補償可是那個是違約金的概念啊那個是違約金的概念那個是違約金的概念可是這個是留任獎金的概念啊"},{"start":474.662,"end":487.882,"text":"各位報告我們有認為這筆錢就是等於說他希望給你的邀約希望你服務滿一定的期限如果你沒有滿足你應該要等於你違約所以那個違約金的概念跟這個服務年限跟這筆錢是類似"},{"start":490.586,"end":511.608,"text":"我覺得違約金條款有兩種情境一種是給你錢讓你變成不可替代的人選嘛然後另外一個就是說可能給你一些補助給你一些補助可是那個就是違約金的概念所以你們覺得這裡的留任獎金是違約金的概念所以你們覺得可以"},{"start":512.489,"end":527.711,"text":"如果留任獎金是違約金的概念因為那裡是寫補償或補助兩個字啊那有些人不會聯想到說是一個留任獎金啊所以如果你們真的這樣認為真的可不可以給一個行政函式你要給一個行政函式"},{"start":528.672,"end":550.483,"text":"那個我覺得這是讓我們回去真的這個意思因為這當然已經進入到很多的細節了那甚至一些個案的情境這事情讓我們回去研議一下好不好好沒問題好我們一個月的時間給委員沒有問題好那我先接著當然你們要研議那我這邊的資料也有一些可以讓你們參考的其實要返還全部或返還部分呢實務有兩個見解這兩個見解是分題的第一個見解呢是這個護理人員他拿了三萬六"},{"start":557.247,"end":574.035,"text":"他答應要做兩年他沒有做到兩年那他就要把這三萬六都返還回去即使他已經做了11個月了就他承諾要做12個月那即使他已經做了11個月了但是他這筆三萬六就是要全部的返還這是A見解就是A見解那A見解他"},{"start":576.576,"end":603.922,"text":"直接的法律基礎是什麼就是我們的那個民法99條嘛這是附有解除條件的法律行為如果解除條件成就什麼叫解除條件成就就是離職離職這件事發生了所以你跟人家簽的留任獎金已經是無效了那既然無效你在你的口袋當中有3.6萬這筆錢就是一個不當得利所以你要返還給雇主所以全部要返還這個是A見解那B見解的部分呢就是B見解"},{"start":604.742,"end":605.664,"text":"就是法官覺得說這筆錢不失為違約金的"},{"start":612.472,"end":637.995,"text":"性質不失為違約金的性質好那現在要請護理人員把三萬六發回去就是一個違約金的概念但是呢整個三萬六要還回去對護理人員來說也不公平因為12個月他已經做了11個月了所以其實他已經履行了12分之11的約了他唯一沒有履行的是12分之1那一塊所以法官就覺得說好你既然這個我們把他"},{"start":639.076,"end":666.286,"text":"定性成他是一個違約金那違約金條款有酌減的條款就明法252嘛所以他就用252來把他應該還回去的三萬六進行酌減那酌減到三千那為什麼會從三萬六要酌減到三千是因為未滿日數的比例就是十二分之一所以你只要把三萬六的十二分之一的錢拿出來就可以了所以法官在見解這是"},{"start":667.186,"end":692.038,"text":"B見解法官所持的見解那我當然這邊就有一個案例其實我這個案例是真實的發生的那情境也是一模一樣他這個護理師他就是要承諾任滿12個月然後可以得到留任獎金3.6個月結果他任職11個月他就走了他就走了那現在醫院提告要請他返還那36000那最後法官怎麼判法官就是用B見解"},{"start":693.995,"end":709.95,"text":"畢竟也就是說你拿的那三萬六不思維違約金的性質那如同我剛說的你要叫護理人員把三萬六都拿出來還給醫院好像對護理人員也不公平因為護理人員雖然承諾要做12個月可是他已經做了12分"},{"start":710.971,"end":737.242,"text":"支11的提成了嘛對不對所以呢他只剩下12分之1沒做那我們是不是就針對那12分之1請他要把違約金給返還回去所以這個概念呢就會衍生出說就像部長您剛開始講1比例返還那1比例返還的一個背後的思維就來自於這樣的一個邏輯的還有運作所以我這邊有提到說衛生門"},{"start":739.603,"end":753.951,"text":"這個判決等於是告訴我們一個定卯神爭的一個概念就是未認滿日數就是依未認滿日數的比例返還那我這邊要給部長一個建議就是說"},{"start":754.811,"end":771.271,"text":"到底是不是違約金你們要回去想清楚因為判決說判決也沒有認為他是一個違約金只認為說他不思維違約金不思維違約金有違約金的那種感覺那我覺得法官是不是在認識用法的時候他也沒有一條法律"},{"start":771.812,"end":786.208,"text":"可以好好的來使用貼切的法律百分之百貼切的法律可以來使用所以他就這裡東接一個A概念那裡B接一個法律概念所以我這邊建議說是不是對這種預付性的留任獎金可以來立法那我這邊有個"},{"start":787.089,"end":814.928,"text":"草案可以給勞動部參考就是預付性的留任獎金勞工在任職屆滿前離職留任獎金僅需按未任滿日數之比例返還這個就是白紙黑字如果你有白紙黑字你不用再進去法院攻防然後呢你遇到A法官可能他會出現A見解你遇到B法官他可能會出現B見解所以我覺得我們的條文如果明確化可能不管是對勞工的角度或對整個職場運作的角度會比較順遂那當然"},{"start":817.009,"end":838.588,"text":"就要有相對應的罰則,就是說如果這個情形是要依比例返還,僱主卻要叫你全額返還,那可能也要有一些相對應的罰則那第二個建議就是說,這個這個概念上禮拜我也跟部長說過了,就是建議過有一個機構與人員勞動契約建議應記載跟不得記載事項的這份文件,那其實如果"},{"start":839.269,"end":859.009,"text":"像這種預付性的留任獎金因為雇主來跟你要其實都是要全部他不會在薪人後給你只要什麼十二分之一三千塊那是不是這個因記載事項就要寫說如果是預付性的留任獎金護理人員他在借滿錢離職留任獎金僅需按未滿日數的比例返還這個部長不知道認同嗎"},{"start":864.251,"end":885.264,"text":"跟委員說明第一個是這個因為這個醫療機構跟相關醫護人員的勞動企業的部分應濟財不得積載食箱這當然是在臥福部處理那我想我們針對剛剛其實委員講的這個議題我們會來做一個研議那剛剛講我們大概一個月的時間我可以跟委員說一個月的時間"},{"start":886.184,"end":897.125,"text":"那如果當然我們研議的結論是如何當然就也要送送到給衛福部來去做相關的的的參考好OK謝謝好好那呃"},{"start":900.188,"end":925.433,"text":"我也是到了尾聲了到了尾聲就是想要跟部長這邊再做一個確認第一個就是說可不可以提供給我們獎金因為也許留任獎金目前沒有裁罰機制那如果沒有裁罰機制的話你們有沒有輔導機制因為現在留任獎金似乎是醫院他使出要留任護理人員的一個常用的手段所以我們有一些留任獎金糾紛的資料可以提供"},{"start":927.554,"end":954.313,"text":"那個委員因為現在你剛講的這個輔導部分我覺得我們可能還是要找衛福部這邊來討論因為如果要有相關那邊沒有資料嗎你說哪一個部分的資料留任獎金糾紛的資料所以我說剛才跟委員說我們會先檢視一下目前其實有的一些個案的狀況跟他的樣態情境包括剛剛委員說的可能法官的見解包括他對法官的見解上他有沒有他其實不同的脈絡的條件因為如果只單純"},{"start":956.715,"end":973.905,"text":"看這部分他不一定資訊很完整那把這些相關判斷以後我們其實做一個研議那這研議那當然一定是要把這個這樣子的研議的我們的判斷跟思考要送到要給衛福部這邊做參考那包括後面講的輔導也什麼的是不是應該我認為都要找衛福部一起來討論"},{"start":974.745,"end":998.462,"text":"沒有問題就是建立跨部會的平台才能有效率的解決問題那第二點您剛也提到了就是那個關於應記載跟不得記載事項我想這個也是要找衛福部來一起來確認然後勞基法我建議能夠有一條修法但你們要待會去研議那我再進一步的講說如果真的你們覺得用法律的層次來把這件事講清楚沒那麼快"},{"start":999.383,"end":1015.091,"text":"沒那麼快短期目標是不是先給個行政函式那當然你要一步到位直接就把法修好我覺得我也樂觀其成那可如果沒有辦法一步到位還要再那個慢慢的去思考那是不是短過渡期間短期目標是不是有一個行政函式這樣"},{"start":1016.091,"end":1042.881,"text":"我自己是認為就委員剛才講的話我們應該在這些個案去做一點盤整梳理以後我也認為應該要給一個比較穩定的見解這個穩定的見解要用哪些方式這部分我們可以帶來看但是我也覺得有一個相對穩定的見解那對於讓我們的醫護人員跟這個醫療院所其實比較有一個明確的方向怎麼來去思考跟盤整我覺得這也是會比較好的"},{"start":1043.302,"end":1052.718,"text":"好好謝謝部長那我們就一個月後就等待您的這個回覆謝謝好謝謝邱惠如委員發言接下來請王玉明委員發言"}]}},{"id":"168334","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168334","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7034322d5e15ed089b509ad0e4ca3d8668ce3249aa741ed4126f20e6437c5d88a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"09:44:10 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桃園核定率4%但是為願望難走 比如台南核定率8%高雄的核定率是21%這個是校園周邊改善計畫的部分所以當然剛才我們劉世芳部長一直強調就是說今天來自於地方政府他是不是 他來有沒有申請就沒有申請大概就會有七八成之多"},{"start":199.821,"end":225.768,"text":"那我認為所有的不管是哪一都即便不在我的選區內我覺得如果各縣市政府他有需要有需要其實真的就應該盡量給他核定那剛才也聽到部長的報告就說現在呢也能夠希望盡量的盡量的加快流程那這個部分我是肯定的好我們來看下一頁那另外就是說"},{"start":227.113,"end":251.641,"text":"我要特別說的即使是如此我們在人行道的部分全國人行道的普及率到現在仍然不到五成而且這幾年可以看到可能前幾年他這個我們的這個工程做下去你也容易看到這個數字的提升如果我們看七年來的這個人行道到2025年"},{"start":253.081,"end":279.717,"text":"七年來的人行道的普及率這兩年出現了一個停滯的狀態出現一個停滯的狀態所以我想請問一下也許要問交通部那這個部分我們到底現在還因為我們希望一年要增加一個百分點可是現在顯然看起來現在是一個停滯的狀態我們要如何的去做改善呢"},{"start":280.683,"end":304.481,"text":"我想跟委員報告一下那個人行道其實要偵測或要改善其實如果在一開始都市設計或規劃的時候沒有要來偵測是有困難的所以就是因為這樣的困難所以在這樣的一個人行改善計畫裡面人行道的改善也是我們列為一個重點所以市長你們認為現在人行道的普及率進入了一個瓶頸區了嗎"},{"start":306.891,"end":326.101,"text":"不是進入一個瓶頸區就是說大家要持續的去改善所以我們每一年大概都會同內政部來訂定相關的一個API來持續的來推動因為我們台北市來說就是因為他簽署的度市計畫你之前沒有規劃那有很多還是私地"},{"start":327.142,"end":341.338,"text":"那我們這幾年台北市做的很多我覺得做的也比較好的地方就是我們盡量用標線型的人行道標線型人行道 老實講它的重點 它的困難是在於溝通我自己的選區"},{"start":342.819,"end":357.267,"text":"有時候標寫性 因為一樓都不要給你嘛一樓因為他要停車嘛 對不對對 同意嘛 你這個部長然後死都不肯 而且我們即便在校園旁邊 他們也是不肯啊有的找里長 里長 你看像選舉 他左右為難"},{"start":360.589,"end":379.06,"text":"但是呢這幾年台北市因為很多的一些示範區的標線型人行道把它做出來之後那對於議員在做會刊的時候也比較好去爭取我們在初期標線型人行道尤其一樓的店面真的我們遭到非常非常大的阻力"},{"start":379.6,"end":406.157,"text":"所以我覺得你們在做一些目標的時候除了當然你最好能夠做人行道甚至我們還有什麼腳踏車怎麼樣的在人行道裡面還有這個自行車道這個把它做得比較完整但是有很多的我知道像台北市有一些路都可以做可是我到新北我自己來看我都不曉得要怎麼做連人行道做出來都非常困難"},{"start":406.957,"end":433.804,"text":"所以我覺得標線型人行道標線型人行道也可以把它作為一個指標標線型人行道仍然非常有可能被佔用也有可能被圍停 非常可能但是呢 它做下去之後其實對於行人的保障還是有一定的效果尤其對於年長者尤其台北市 因為它是一個老化的城市那很多都根本要推輪椅"},{"start":435.945,"end":450.921,"text":"我們以前還做過就在人行道裡面推人椅然後就摔到整臉通通都花掉了因為你人行道品質不好更差你有做跟沒做可能你有做還造成更多人受傷這個是一個建議另外一個"},{"start":454.244,"end":481.064,"text":"就是剛才有特別提到要怎麼樣去簡化程序來下一頁喔簡化程序也就是說要提高公共的參與率可是我在這邊特別提到我們從推出全民參與街道改善然後呢到目前為止只有一件完工只有一件完工後來我問我問說欸這個這件事在哪裡啊民族珍貴嘛結果部長你知道在哪裡嗎你們知道在哪裡嗎"},{"start":485.383,"end":491.621,"text":"跟那個委員回答是在台北市的安居街對台北市大安區因為這一類的案件其實通常"},{"start":493.023,"end":513.888,"text":"環境都是比較複雜一點就是民眾溝通的時間要花比較多所以通常會讓就是沒有我跟你講我聽到台北市大安區然後我覺得預料之中因為確實我們大安區居民他們對於他們很多的交通設施他們前一陣子應該去年嘛為了要拆一個路橋他們也"},{"start":515.828,"end":541.716,"text":"也發動了所有的公民參與那個完全是跨黨派的喔完全是跨黨派我不在那個區域裡面我都被我都接受到陳情跟投訴就是為了一個路橋所以我的意思說雖然我們想說能夠希望有這個街道醫生用公民參與平台可是以現在來看顯然參與率是不足的然後每個投票每個提案只有40個人投票"},{"start":542.276,"end":559.527,"text":"那這樣的狀況你即便做下去搞不好還有其他人發現了之後很不爽說你為什麼要這樣做所以我覺得這個公民參與平台它可以推動那或者說你們要在這個既然要推動的話就需要更多人的參與"},{"start":560.367,"end":589.706,"text":"那我覺得像大安區 台北市大安區因為他們過去 他們公民參與的踴躍度是很高的那邊就是 尤其很多他們是文教區嘛那都很樂於踴躍參與但是 老師說我覺得其他縣市未必所以我認為如果說要加速 加速那你單單只是靠公共參與平台的話那其實它的效率不一定會做顯著的提升這是我的一個提醒"},{"start":590.167,"end":590.368,"text":"好不好好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168333","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168333","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7be726d4419558dd5b509ad0e4ca3d8668ce3249aa741ed4166db0adbae60701a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"09:35:57 - 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因為只有他們生活在社區你才知道說他們人行道安全出了什麼狀況會提供給我們更詳細的資料這個又是另外一個問題了啦因為我剛剛在問您的是說我第一 我告訴大家"},{"start":202.743,"end":215.206,"text":"我鼓勵內政部這邊說你們這個計畫裡面把孩童相關的學校地區放在優先我覺得是好的而且成效顯著這是我給予肯定嘛所以我剛剛的問題就是那接下來的兩年你持續繼續啊你的方向重點會在哪裡我當然順著這個邏輯下來我的期待其實就是要聽到孩童會繼續維持在優先學校會繼續維持在優先"},{"start":227.808,"end":248.155,"text":"所以我更要加碼跟您報告的就是說其實就是在這個過程當中我們學校周邊已經改善過了那麼孩子不是只有從家裡到學校不是只有學校旁邊才是需要被保護、被安全的嘛所以我今天要提出的就是通學入廊也應該要能夠被放在優先的部分我們可不可以下一個 對"},{"start":249.676,"end":258.635,"text":"對 這路廊的部分嘛 這你看是過去我們直接沒有人行道直接是通 直接是接在馬路上面的狀況好 那我就舉兩個例子跟你說好了"},{"start":259.983,"end":287.891,"text":"下面兩個例子那個第一張圖的話我們這兩張圖的話其實分別是來自新莊跟新店這樣子的兩個部分齁那其實我們在新莊的部分上福音國中往丹鳳捷運站的路上其實就是沒有人行道直接走在巷道上面那再來呢第二個的話是新店的雙城國小我們都是舉例嘛一離開學校馬上你看旁邊人行道也就是斷掉的部分所以"},{"start":288.631,"end":311.018,"text":"剛剛部長又提到另外一個問題另外一個計畫是公民可以通報但我今天在這裡質詢台上我要跟你討論並且我提出的就是我同意我贊成孩子優先學校優先所以我認為下一階段的兩年計畫裡面是不是可以把學校我們沒有辦法到每個人家裡因為每個人住的地方不一樣但至少比如說學校到捷運站學校到公車站"},{"start":314.339,"end":329.569,"text":"這種通學路廊的部分也可以列為我們在改善計畫裡面的優先部分這樣一節一節做下去接起來學童的安全回家路上學路才能夠完成市長您認為是謝謝委員的關心我們在114年度的時候已經有邀集一些民團來開會現在會用六個直轄市政府先行辦理兩處的校園示範區也就是您所說的在校園周邊已經改善了以後它的往外擴"},{"start":341.357,"end":348.86,"text":"這個計畫還要再跟六個直轄市政府再來但是它列為內政部這邊的優先計畫跟六個直轄市討論然後也跟委員報告到115年3月的時候內政部已經累計中央政府補助的校園周邊的改善計畫已經有400"},{"start":363.785,"end":377.852,"text":"01案已經完成401案正在執行17案總共加起來418案這是全國的400案對全國也就是我們在過去一段時間裡面對於校園周邊的改善確實是有顯著的一個成果部長你剛剛說的這個資料400案裡面是時間點到什麼時候115年3月底"},{"start":382.954,"end":410.893,"text":"那一個400案裡面我們新北市根據我的資料目前是只有核定32件那我是覺得這個比例相對來講的話如果我們是同一份資料的話那我是覺得新北市的話可能是稍微少了一點對 跟委員報告我剛有提過我們有去統計一下就是由地方政府報上來我們的核定的比例大概都是七成到八成所以你意思是他提出的不少了是 他提出的比較少的話那當然核定就比較少可是我們"},{"start":411.954,"end":441.469,"text":"我們有需要改善的還蠻多的好沒關係那我覺得部長是這樣我剛剛跟您在這個六分鐘的過程當中其實就是在確認我們接下來兩年的方向那既然你也同意這個學校的周圍的通學路廊應該要持續放在最優先的部分的話那不管是我們現在督促地方政府通報我們會跟地方的議員繼續合作像剛剛的話就是新莊林秉佑議員新店這個陳乃瑜議員他們通通有這樣回報的狀況我們不但會合作然後跟地方政府出"},{"start":442.209,"end":463.23,"text":"催促他們繼續前進通報另外你剛剛說的這個公民的部分連這些部分應該也是可以一併的通報也會放在優先嗎他的排序是因為這是我們內政部跟交通部一起合作的那所以只要合乎我們原來出去的這個改善計畫的規定的話通報上來我們只要這個會刊沒有問題的話我們就會處理"},{"start":463.37,"end":482.484,"text":"好 那我會想要這個通報機制的部分是不是能夠給我們辦公室一份資料它整個的流程從通報然後審核的程序然後使用的期間大概會是多少我們在國土署的官方網站我們再處理一下給委員辦公室來參考好 非常感謝 謝謝部長 謝謝次長"}]}},{"id":"168322","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168322","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7e38257168457de3b9dfcc871f89f4d35ce3311c87f234439b2462f6caa9091c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"09:40:25 - 09:49:51","影片長度":"00:09:26","會議時間":"2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查「總統咨，為最高檢察署檢察總長邢泰釗任期於115年5月7日屆滿，茲依法院組織法第66條第2項規定，提名徐錫祥為最高檢察署檢察總長，咨請同意案」案。\n【本案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-09","start_time":"2026-04-09T09:40:25+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-09T09:49:51+08:00","duration":566,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,15],"id":"聯席會議-11-5-36,15-1"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.127218750000001,"end":11.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.79221875,"end":20.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.68596875,"end":21.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.25534375,"end":26.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.17034375,"end":26.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.49096875,"end":42.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.07284375,"end":29.511593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.150968750000004,"end":42.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.85971875,"end":47.213468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.77034375,"end":51.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.34346875,"end":56.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.815343750000004,"end":108.04784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.48659375000001,"end":109.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.08971875,"end":129.25971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.61409375,"end":139.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.50284375,"end":143.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.55284375000002,"end":150.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.18034375000002,"end":184.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.01471875000001,"end":226.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.02096875,"end":243.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.50346875000002,"end":314.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.91846875000005,"end":318.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.37784375,"end":327.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.48221875,"end":325.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.30471875,"end":333.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.48971875,"end":347.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.03159375,"end":350.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.69346875,"end":357.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.88221875000005,"end":363.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.73784375,"end":364.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.45909375,"end":366.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.12971875000005,"end":368.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.58096875,"end":371.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.90534375000004,"end":378.94221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.46534375000005,"end":379.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.49909375000004,"end":379.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.95471875000004,"end":391.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.24534375,"end":384.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.99971875,"end":389.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.53096875,"end":394.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.53471875,"end":396.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.76221875000005,"end":407.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.43971875000005,"end":414.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.54846875000004,"end":418.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.53096875,"end":419.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.80096875000004,"end":419.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.88096875,"end":419.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.96534375000005,"end":420.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.03284375000004,"end":453.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.90596875,"end":422.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.83346875,"end":463.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.30909375000005,"end":462.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.40159375,"end":489.82784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.31721875000005,"end":496.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.84784375000004,"end":535.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.82096875,"end":507.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.03159375,"end":539.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.99721875,"end":547.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.8103437500001,"end":562.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.9184687500001,"end":558.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.1497187500001,"end":566.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.9340937500001,"end":566.7947187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.644,"end":9.432,"text":"我是娘,我到網路耍他"},{"start":15.973,"end":41.526,"text":"好 謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員 大家好有請徐錫祥 主任檢察官提名人好 請配提名人最高組檢察官提名人委員長提名人早那今天是司法跟內政委員會聯席來針對提名人您來去做一個請教是 哪裡"},{"start":43.007,"end":63.654,"text":"那我想說今天這個檢查總長的位置非常的重要其實大家都希望未來您有機會擔任檢查總長的以後一定要保持獨立性那可是今天本席還是要在這邊來請教您一些問題那也希望說您有機會來去做說明"},{"start":64.494,"end":89.476,"text":"那因為檢察總部長他是管理全國檢查體系非常重要的一個位置那其實也是要保持非常大的獨立性不能被政治所凌駕跟綁架那您過去的經歷其實是長期在檢查體系那不過剛剛很多委員跟福田公聽會也特別提到您過去擔任過法務部次長國安局的副局長"},{"start":90.197,"end":107.712,"text":"那這個當然對於一般很多民眾會認為這是高度政治性的職務那當然在昨天的公聽會那也要特別我們有一位這個台高檢的主任檢察官陳鴻達也在公聽會指出"},{"start":110.894,"end":127.641,"text":"這個認為您的核心歷練不足啊那擔任政務官有濃厚的政治性是不是可以把擔任我們現在的職位的未來的職位的時候有沒有辦法斬斷這個過去的政黨跟人脈關係啊那只對法律跟證據負責請回答"},{"start":130.483,"end":157.726,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝委員垂詢我想一個人是不是會被政治控制進而影響到整個檢查系統的偵辦的態度絕對不是說你當過什麼官而在於你的心態你今天如果說你的心態是正常你維護的我們檢察官的獨立的獨立性跟中立性的話不管你是什麼職務你自然就會畫一條線這條線就是不能跨過的紅線那我擔任"},{"start":158.526,"end":175.074,"text":"那個國安局副局長以及政務次長委員如果有興趣可以去檢視我所有做過的事情沒有一項是跟政治是有關係的都是為了國家安全以及政務的話法務部的政務推動包括刑法修正打詐釋法以及我們的我們的一個"},{"start":177.235,"end":191.369,"text":"轉弦 轉弦會議還有我們的評鑑 洗房辦的評鑑以及廉政署這邊的透明組織的評鑑哪一項不是跟我們人民的權利息息相關沒有一項是所謂的政治性"},{"start":191.849,"end":213.222,"text":"我想這個都可以去檢視我走過的任何一個足跡所以我覺得不是你當過什麼職務而是你的所作所為是不是符合我們國家的利益那國安局這個就是保護我們國家的安全防止滲透 防止別人對我們的不法以及特警的部門還要維護首長的安全這個沒有一項是政治的"},{"start":214.142,"end":242.625,"text":"次長剛才我也已經講得很清楚所以可以去檢視我做過的事情而不是單就這個職位就去評斷說他是政治性我想這是對職位不公平對我也是不公平的好 謝謝您的回應那當然他有特別昨天的這個公聽會他也說這個您沒有擔任過台北地檢署的檢察長跟二審的檢察長那相較過去三任檢察總長的歷練仍然不足那你有什麼回應嗎好"},{"start":243.746,"end":256.358,"text":"那我想根據司法人員人事條例第16條的規定裡面所列的我是符合第三款的規定那這個是無庸置疑那裡面有提到一個還要具備領導的才能"},{"start":257.884,"end":284.913,"text":"那我雖然沒有當過北檢檢察長這也不是我刻意或怎樣而是我的檢察官的生涯裡面長官任賦予我們的任務我們是一步一步的走誰也不能安排下一步那我當過新北的檢察長我去的時候剛好就是疫情最嚴重的時候一年來我率領大家透過這個疫情我還是能夠偵辦刑事案件很有名的雙核的雙核醫院的殺富士案也是我"},{"start":285.433,"end":314.029,"text":"我費盡了很多心思然後去協調很多單位才把這個案子給辦好還有我們辦的那個國備局的這個收取匯款案以及我之前在彰化的綠能案件有很多很多的案子是因為當時題目設定是我當檢察官的時候辦的案子而不是我領導指揮的案子我參與的這些案子我也可以把它寫進去有人說我比較老實啦就寫那個以前那個最年輕的時候辦的案子"},{"start":314.449,"end":333.111,"text":"那25年前的案子它的性質就是這樣哪知道說25年後我們會變成這麼龐大的一個犯罪組織我們面對的跟以前是完全是不可同日而語所以你要以指揮監督這種大型案子我的經驗是很多的並不是沒有只是我沒有把它寫進去而已"},{"start":334.492,"end":356.849,"text":"那我方不方便再請教那我請教賴總統有沒有特別提說他提名你的原因以及未來您的這個當任檢察總長的辦案的重點是不是可以請您說明一下我跟委員這個誠實的講沒有我還沒見過總統所以沒有任何的提示但是不用提示"},{"start":359.15,"end":378.816,"text":"就是說你要爭取這個同意權提名跟同意權我該做什麼事情我很清楚那條線也很清楚我要率領的全體檢察官要能夠遵照法律的規定要公平的來偵辦任何案子沒有派系黨派之分這個是非常明確的"},{"start":379.66,"end":407.601,"text":"那未來您的辦案重點可不可以簡單說明一下辦案重點對你來講是比較重要的比如說等一下可能我會請教你的就是有關於詐騙詐欺最近氾濫你有沒有什麼是你的辦案重點我們的重點就是今年的大選這是大選還有貪圖案件詐欺也在委員剛才問的詐欺也在還有國安案件還有我們的營業秘密這都是我們我們還有一個那個掃黑這都是我們最高檢非常核心的工作"},{"start":408.499,"end":438.259,"text":"好那針對詐騙你有沒有什麼可以未來可以讓詐騙案件可以降低的一些方式報告委員詐騙案件已經降了超過百分之二十五了我是說還有沒有降低的方式不是現在降低多少這個決策是多方向的我想委員非常有經驗第一個就是要跨機關還有跨公司協力目前台高檢在做的這個預警系統就非常有效他已經成功攔阻十一億的彰款的匯出我想這個是我們檢察官往前跨一步"},{"start":438.699,"end":451.951,"text":"在可疑的賬戶的時候我們就凍結然後開始追往上追這就是公私協力跨機關的合作這是非常非常重要那再來最重要的是我們要扣住這些賬戶"},{"start":453.972,"end":464.66,"text":"然後來落實返還我想民眾最關心的點在這裡我們就是如何去把這些賬款全部扣住將來返還最重要就是要宣導提名 謝謝實際的關係請教您最後一個問題因為當然最近有一個問題就是我們這個基層的檢察員的過勞的問題也有基層檢察員檢察官集體離職的等等相關的問題那當然就像你講的"},{"start":478.79,"end":496.128,"text":"當然我們在偵辦案件的時候很積極然後把這個詐騙的金額下降那當然檢察官的也會相對非常辛苦那你對於基層檢察官過勞集體離職你擔任檢察總長有沒有如果未來擔任檢察總長你有沒有一些方式可以給他比如說AI偵辦或什麼樣的方式"},{"start":497.169,"end":521.622,"text":"謝謝委員的關心我真的是替檢察官感謝委員我想現在最重要的就是減輕檢察官的負擔那我在當次長的時候包括現在部裡面一直在推像我們的檢察官助理我們已經非常成功的到院裡面同意我們再來的兩年我們會增加244個那當然這也是大院的一個支持"},{"start":522.382,"end":545.059,"text":"檢察官助理對檢察官來講非常的重要可以有效的緩解他們的壓力再來剛才委員提到了AI對AI不是只有幫我們寫書類我們現在在進行的是什麼是AI輔助偵查系統希望有一天我們AI就是我們一個檢查事務官可以提供給我們很多偵查作為的協助這都是我們努力的目標還有我們書類簡化我們的"},{"start":548.281,"end":564.226,"text":"立案審查的制度在意的一個簡化這個有很多很多我們部裡面一直在推目標就是要減輕檢察官的工作負擔這是我們在努力的我想這個是一定要做的最刻不容緩的工作好 謝謝我們的問題到這裡謝謝您的回應"}]}},{"id":"168321","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168321","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc704afb62b7a0f32330a49e36d97d29c5fce3311c87f23443954de318ebac86ee55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:25:14 - 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請洪部長"},{"start":21.027,"end":41.384,"text":"一開始先講一些就最近觀察到的數據讓您知道2025年的工總呢他白皮書發表說最近最大的問題就是缺工我想這個你應該也都知道了那跟您比較相關的是財訊做了一個對於賴清德總統的民調那他最滿意喔"},{"start":42.185,"end":71.708,"text":"他們最滿意的政策85.6%剛好是您從前反對那就是調整非核家園這樣子的政策可是企業是很支持的那最不滿意的政策剛好也跟您相關這個就是缺工的問題有63%的企業不滿意現況那未來呢我覺得您可能常會面對到這樣子的問題啦可能每次答詢都要講這些所以未來應該也沒有什麼要迴避的地方那"},{"start":72.128,"end":95.833,"text":"我本期間只是想跟你討論說剛你有一直提到說外籍的移工或者是這篇是在講外籍的實習生那你都希望可以盡量跟本國人拉齊這你剛答詢你會請委員的那缺工就真的太嚴重所以不管是交通部經濟部教育部都引進了外籍留學生這樣子的人力"},{"start":97.233,"end":119.09,"text":"那很多委員都質詢嘛所以今年2026年1月的時候經濟部就提出了企業級法人申請外國籍學生來中華民國實習要點那裡面也一直強調說都有找勞動部要來稽查找勞動部給意見所以其實呢他們就是找勞動部來背書說他們有正視這些實習生的勞權那經濟部說要比照勞務的事實但這個實習要點"},{"start":125.475,"end":142.541,"text":"我不知道你有沒有注意到他其實沒有很很強烈的罰則他唯一的處罰就是說他會對實習單位撤銷或廢止實習核准函所以我想問您會覺得說這有達到您剛提到的想要跟本國人拉起這個標準嗎"},{"start":144.329,"end":168.091,"text":"跟陳委員說明其實現在在講的這個外國實習生他們的學籍現在在包括是經濟部跟交通部他們的學籍其實是在國外那是由國外的學生那國外的這個學校單位來跟來找台灣的企業來去做這樣實習的合作那在今年以前"},{"start":169.591,"end":175.103,"text":"其實這樣子的實習生他用他用這樣實習的名義其實他"},{"start":177.847,"end":204.293,"text":"有很多的包括薪資的給付包括相關的權益說實話都跟現在台灣的勞動法規是有一段落差的所以其實去年就是我們勞動部我們也去找包括經濟部包括交通部也包括行政院大家協調我們認為這樣子的做法不是個辦法因為這會讓很多企業"},{"start":205.273,"end":212.531,"text":"就會用這樣子的方式可能會繞開勞動的法規甚至去找這個相對非常非常"},{"start":214.366,"end":242.357,"text":"廉價的或便宜的這個勞動力我們認為不是辦法所以我們才在應該是在去年的時候在行政院跟經濟部跟交通部來討論至少他們應該要把這個用這樣子方式的進來的外國籍的實習生比方說他們的工資他們相關的權益包括可能相關該做的一些這個尤其是薪資的部分然後勞動條件應該至少要比照我們"},{"start":244.198,"end":263.975,"text":"臺灣勞動法規的最低的標準那所以現在是應該在1月1號之後在經濟部跟交通部其實他們有調整了他們的相關的規範想要把它給拉起來那這部分的確我們是跟一步一步談不然如果在去年的情境的話很有可能其實這一個外國行醫生他一個月拿到薪資確實是非常非常低的"},{"start":264.175,"end":290.175,"text":"那我舉一個很簡單的例子我舉一個很簡單的例子因為我看了一下這個實習要點裡面一個很簡單的例子也會是您重視的如果根據勞工保險條例沒有對勞工投保那他這個罰環是重的可能從4倍到10倍都有根據第72條第38條可是這個實習要點就像我剛剛跟你講的他只會對實習單位做撤銷或是廢止核准函"},{"start":290.675,"end":299.088,"text":"那除了薪資我覺得他們的勞權你未來的進度是如何否則我們又會常常被冠上這種強迫勞動的惡名"},{"start":300.964,"end":321.693,"text":"跟這跟陳委員說明第一個確實因為比方說如果如果這個學生他是學籍是在國內那學籍在國內的話其實通常會分成學習型實習跟工作型實習如果是工作型實習的話其實就是比較工作你的意思是說因為他學籍不在國內所以你這邊有點困難"},{"start":324.694,"end":352.401,"text":"因為他的學籍不在國內所以他不太目前的確在現有的這個司法性上他不太適用於我們目前國內的當法規但是我跟你說因為他現在是由他進來的方式是由經濟部跟交通部可是經濟部經濟部的投審代理司長他對外的發言他是說過去較偏重學生身份現在的重點則是放在勞務提供者"},{"start":353.001,"end":372.089,"text":"所以呢他會給予勞務提供者的相對基本保障並且啊他還直接講說他會不定期的與勞動部共同進行防事所以他自己經濟部他已經把他偏重在勞務提供者勒跟穆仁說明這是我們去跟經濟部談"},{"start":374.901,"end":387.891,"text":"現在大家才比較清楚至少在這個國外學籍的實習生進來他就是一個應該是比較一個工作形式只是他的法規是法性上面的確他目前不是"},{"start":392.274,"end":418.564,"text":"不是直接適用交通部這邊主管的相關法規所以比較要從經濟部跟交通部他們訂的要點那這部分我們也一直在跟經濟部溝通他們應該把這個相關的標準給拉高那我講下一個案例這個新聞我相信你應該有看到就是BBC去採訪我們的一位外籍移工那這個移工他是女性他跟其他的女性組了一個女性工人組織的工會那隨即呢"},{"start":419.184,"end":433.075,"text":"有這個工會成立之後他就跟其他組工會的人被非法解雇就規定他們說離開產線交回制服員工證一個小時內搬出宿舍因為他們破壞和諧那這個BC對我們的報導是非常不"},{"start":434.696,"end":452.166,"text":"非常其實非常侵犯到我們國家的顏面啦因為他直接說台灣移工是囚犯式的管理那為什麼這樣描述是因為他們在這個宿舍女生規定一定要住有宵禁所以呢回來以後還要拍照回傳那如果說你"},{"start":452.866,"end":464.68,"text":"遲了或者是說你未歸那你就要被罰一些勞動的清掃廁所等等清掃廁所還要再存證所以這個移工他說他整個手機裡面全部都是每天打卡或是清掃廁所這些照片那他認為啊他"},{"start":468.644,"end":492.402,"text":"如果這個在台灣如果這些人他可能有其他的親戚朋友他出去他就要趕著11點回來並且被公司規定說你在台灣有什麼認識的人姓名手機地址全部都要交出來那這個工會的幹部也說如果這個他們裡面有個內部管理的規章被他們取得如果在受僱的時候談戀愛等等結婚懷孕就會被受罰"},{"start":493.303,"end":508.373,"text":"那這一家呢他已經因為歧視懷孕者曾經被桃園市政府開罰30萬今年呢勞動部已經函請新北市勞動局依法調查那我只想確認一下您現在掌握的中央調查進度如何"},{"start":509.363,"end":531.119,"text":"跟文說明因為這個案子在去年的下半年那因為他有新北的部分有桃園的部分所以其實相關的部分我們其實都請地方政府去查查那其實我們其實都就是說就是依法辦理那如果其實在查查過程裡面確確有違法的事證的話該怎麼處理 多久之內我們可以看到這個裁罰的公函"},{"start":532.079,"end":552.716,"text":"現在就我們知道他應該是在台灣市的這個檢查下面去年12月應該有被裁罰兩筆一個是應該是一個是我記得一個是性供法一個是加班公使的部分那加班公使是勞基法那他應該當然這個這個案例裡面還有一個部分是現在進入到裁決的部分"},{"start":556.76,"end":574,"text":"那這步進度我請市長說你就簡單的講大概多久以內我們大概就四月份就會完成這個裁決的調查跟確定好那我們在等你的裁決公函那依照這個例子其實我就想跟您討論一下外國人生活照顧服務計畫書裁量基準"},{"start":574.52,"end":604.1,"text":"那這個基準當然是為了保護這些移工宿舍它規定的空間的大小這個廁所啦 隱私啦 安全啦等等的它硬體的規定比較多但您從這個案例看得出來說您這個採樣基準其實很難規定到它延伸出去的管理問題比如說門禁 拍照啊私生活的監控啊交往啊 懷孕等等的它已經逾越人權的這樣子的紅線是沒有辦法藉由這個基準"},{"start":605.341,"end":623.451,"text":"來規範的你認為這個基準是需要調整根本說沒有其實我認為我們現在的這個基準就是我們其實這些相關的執法或者相關的基準其實如果大家有更進一步相關的意見的話我認為我們的目標其實跟我們發言所目標很簡單就是我們應該對齊國際的標準"},{"start":625.833,"end":642.662,"text":"對那在這個國際的標準的這個範疇之下那我們當然都可以來對於這些相關的標準來進行一些檢討我想這個因為我們也看到一個狀況是這些國際的標準他其實也越標準也越來越高他也在變動"},{"start":644.461,"end":666.868,"text":"大家對長期活動的問題也越來越重視不管是我們很多貿易的重要的貿易夥伴國家或者是很多的供應鏈的品牌或者是進口商他們其實對這部分的重視程度包括要求標準越來越高所以我們的確也會需要針對這部分一段時間就要來檢視我們的標準跟國際的標準之間有沒有落差是不是要調整的"},{"start":667.108,"end":689.935,"text":"那我等一下再跟您請教這個進度所以因為剛剛已經你們都有提到了因為ART所以2026年2月你們也發布了一個企業防制強迫勞動參考的指引但是呢這個指引他就欠缺執行力更強的查核揭露還有處罰機制我舉一個國建署自己統計的例子國建署他跟勞保局一起統計2024年有6000名移工懷孕"},{"start":693.376,"end":706.362,"text":"但是呢被聯手勸退就回到了母國所以這高達78%是終止契約的看在人民的眼裡這個數據正常嗎所以您覺得這個指引真的有規範到雇主嗎"},{"start":707.366,"end":728.332,"text":"跟委員說明第一個這裡面會分幾個層次其實現在ILO在強迫勞動上面其實是有11項指標那我們自己其實也去做了相關的法規的檢視在法規的檢視裡面大概我們認為比方說有幾項的確我們在法規上面其實有強化的必要比方說"},{"start":729.352,"end":746.274,"text":"不應該扣留移工相關的證件這也是為什麼今天我們提出這個修法這部分這個你說今天院會會討論你們有預計什麼時候要完成修法嗎要什麼時候送到立法院今天如果院會通過就馬上送就馬上送到立法院就關於扣留護照立法院扣留的部分那另外一個部分是包括"},{"start":747.472,"end":775.569,"text":"就是招募費就是recruitment fee的部分那這的確在我們在跟美方的承諾裡面是認為是三年內要用法規來明定用法規來明確不能夠向移工來做收費不然這就會有抵債勞務的問題所以這幾個部分這幾個指標尤其特定這幾個指標確實在法規上我們認為有強化的必要那剛剛委員剛剛其實前面在講的的確指引的部分它其實比較是讓"},{"start":776.59,"end":799.776,"text":"我們很多企業比較知道第一個怎麼樣去辨識自己目前強迫勞動的風險但是這個得靠企業的自律啊對所以他有些部分他也要靠法規可是法規的修訂會部分法規修訂會陸陸續續一步一步的來修訂那我以為你剛才講的包括查核包括處罰這當然都是需要法規的那指引的目的是因為很多企業現在先來跟我們做他說"},{"start":801.256,"end":813.301,"text":"我大概知道國際上有這個要求可是我不知道該怎麼做我不知道該怎麼去檢視我的風險那這一個指引的目的是協助我們的企業先做辨識風險才有辦法管理風險"},{"start":816.24,"end":839.449,"text":"好那我給你三個結論就剛剛提到的啦這個指引他缺乏強制力還有他就是很仰賴自律那當然我們也有很好的企業但是也有可能不良的企業那很難防堵他侵害人權那第二當然是包括這個我們來規定他建議他生活照顧標準的裁量基準那大部分是著重在硬體"},{"start":840.169,"end":862.289,"text":"您剛也說您會考量把它延伸到這個管理層面以免它逾越了一些私人的紅線等等的監控那這個第三項就是修復法第五條跟第四條那這三樣因為中間您已經解釋了所以關於指引還有基準您要怎麼修改可不可以一個月提供書面報告給我"},{"start":864.071,"end":876.041,"text":"第一個我可以跟委員這邊我們請同仁這邊交換資料再說但我覺得一個重要的原則就是希望要能夠接軌國際的要求跟標準其實我覺得這是最重要的原則好 謝謝謝謝主席 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的確現在在部會分工上面那近海的漁業勞工的部分會是勞工部這邊來組成那遠洋漁業的部分會是農業部漁業署所以這部分其實他當然都是在漁撈業下所以漁撈業下包括近海包括遠洋那近海的部分是勞工部組的 遠洋部分是可是2024年我們統計就有18555人的遠洋"},{"start":151.727,"end":167.255,"text":"境外聘用的那個外籍漁工漁工權益到底要誰來把關還是說這些承諾就像你剛剛講會不會你在這個記者會講的承諾只有近海的沒有遠洋的如果說不歸啊那部長那在這個"},{"start":169.135,"end":196.624,"text":"在台美貿易協定上承諾的說治本協定生效日期三年內因於台灣之法律為從事遠洋漁業之非國民的移工提供相當於我國從事相當相同職業值國民享有的勞動權的一個保障那個跟文說明你剛才念的這一段其實是約束跟美方的承諾是這樣那可能請約束這邊來對好"},{"start":198.004,"end":226.757,"text":"那我先繼續先來提問 等一下我們再請那個署長這邊一併來做回答所以我們先來談一個就是我們扣留身份的文件是我們的國際勞工組織的11項強迫勞動的指標之一兩公寓平行報告也指出來說大部分的漁業的移工都會被以出海工作不好保管為由要求簽署請雇主仲介為其保管的志願書"},{"start":227.857,"end":249.735,"text":"但我想點出這個全責歸屬的問題現在境外僱用外籍漁工不適用就業服務法所以我想請問部長說境外僱用的外籍漁工也能有這個保障嗎這個政策會如何落實第一個事情是其實我們今天早上行政院院會已經會通過應該是會來討論列為討論案"},{"start":254.373,"end":276.923,"text":"就是關於這個救福法裡面那要把那個禁止留置勞工相關重要文件包括護照包括其他一些相關的許可文件的這樣子的修法的法案那如果今天早上的行政院會有在院會通過的話那會馬上的送到立法院來做審議"},{"start":278.854,"end":291.483,"text":"那但遠洋漁工的部分確實現在在行政院的部會分工裡面目前還是經濟部嗎?是漁業署他們有相關的法規應該會來處理這件事情來"},{"start":294.045,"end":309.865,"text":"署長 相關法規是什麼跟委員報告就是說我們遠洋漁業其實在民國60年代就開始發展它一開始發展的時候其實它高度仰賴境外僱傭的漁工它的制度就是在境外"},{"start":310.886,"end":325.343,"text":"這一個聘僱境外解僱所以當時那一塊裡面他一直沒有適用勞基法是這麼來的那剛剛委員特別提到說這一個證件的扣留的部分對 蘇長你先回答這個證件扣留"},{"start":325.843,"end":340.257,"text":"那我們在去年也特別修了那剛剛就是說我們走的是遠洋漁業條例授權的相關的法規嘛那在去年我們針對這一個政見扣留這一個部分我們也修法明文禁止說那什麼時候"},{"start":340.977,"end":354.893,"text":"已經修完了現在我們就明文禁止說不管是船長、船東、仲介都不能違反漁工的意願去扣留他的文件為什麼現在民團還是他們現在在處理這個時候還是碰到這些問題"},{"start":360.86,"end":382.233,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在一年我們所有的漁船裡面我們的訪查率大概達到將近60%也就是說100條船我訪了60條船這個扣留證件這件事是我們避訪的一個題目就是說漁工你有沒有被船方扣留證件我們高度重視這個議題"},{"start":383.294,"end":394.989,"text":"署長你可能把相關的你剛剛講到你們查訪的這些東西相關的資料再給我們因為我覺得時間的關係再來就是我覺得針對於優化仲介評鑑這一塊民團認為現在的評鑑相關資訊沒有完全公開"},{"start":399.054,"end":423.606,"text":"職方代表有求人兼裁判之嫌而且憑一些流於形式我現在是簡單化事實上他們報告給我的東西事實上是非常的多而且更應該要跟移工有直接溝通的一個機制都沒有所以美國的人口範圍報告當中也直接進行說將社會公民的團體的意見比如包括製造業跟移工代表跟專家及從業人員的意見你們正式納入人力"},{"start":424.566,"end":448.806,"text":"中介的評鑑的一個程序當中可是現在的評鑑就是中介的評鑑事實上是由我們的民業部約署來主管那我先問部長說可是在記者會上在優化評鑑這一塊事實上是洪山部長講的所以我就想說你們兩個邊的分工到底是什麼而且這次優化的評鑑制度會做出什麼樣的改善嗎"},{"start":451.439,"end":461.768,"text":"其實現在在移工的這個主管方面大家在行政院這邊的部會分工其實大概就是我剛才說的"},{"start":463.735,"end":482.752,"text":"包括製造業營造業家庭看護工甚至現在的幫傭那以致近海的這個移工近海的漁業移工其實都是有勞動部這邊相關署管的法規來去做管轄可是平建是他們呢"},{"start":483.832,"end":510.946,"text":"呃,評鑑的部分當然會涉及到他們,他們遠洋還是他們,但我們也會有這個國內的部分的中介評鑑,那我們目前其實也在規劃這個中介評鑑的優化的做法,尤其是要把這個公平招募的概念給放進來,那剛剛委員講到說在這個評鑑的過程裡面,我我自己的確認為各個厲害相關方都應該被納入進來,可以表達他們的意見跟想法,那包括當然包括民間團體好,"},{"start":511.966,"end":535.071,"text":"那也請漁業署也是比照辦理現在歐向不是只有我們落地的有管那遠洋的你沒有管然後那個評鑑你沒有辦法處理根據委員報告其實我們的評鑑因為我們既然走了遠洋漁業條例也有仲介機構那我們其實都是參考勞動部相關的規定建立了這一個仲介評鑑制度那評鑑委員的部分我們"},{"start":536.111,"end":563.039,"text":"學長我覺得還是時間的關係所以請你都有相關的資料給我是說包含你們這幾年邀請的委員是誰不是只有資方跟學者那民間團體甚至一些漁工代表都沒有這個請你們再把相關的報告給我報告沒問題那勞動部承諾三年內要去落實我們的製造業跟漁勞業的移工的那個"},{"start":563.679,"end":585.179,"text":"我剛剛也聽到部長也講說你們接下來要做我看報告也有我認為這當然是利益良善的政策可是我想追問三個問題第一個三零零付費的年度進度的那個指標是什麼那第二個是說如果沒有達成的話問責機制是什麼還有這項政策到底是誰來主動是農業部還是是勞動部"},{"start":588.611,"end":616.547,"text":"跟委員說明喔其實三年內那要以這個法規的方式來禁止像製造業跟漁勞業的移工收取招募還有相關的費用這部分是我們跟美方在ART裡面相關的承諾的事項是那我們的確我們認為這一個這個方向其實也符合目前國際上面勞動權益規範的部分可是如果沒有達成的話你的問責其實"},{"start":618.315,"end":646.452,"text":"其實我想這個政策方向當然就是我們要去努力去做的事情那也跟我們坦白說明其實因為台灣確實我們的中小企業比較多所以我們會在這裡面會需要有一點這個調試期這個所謂的調試期就是這三年所以在這三年的過程裡面我們現在其實已經在ART通過前我們已經發布了指引那接下來會有相關的宣導那我們也會來調整像剛剛我們剛才講到的"},{"start":646.892,"end":665.088,"text":"包括仲介的評鑑甚至其實相關的制度我們會一步一步的在這三年內讓我們的產業然後有能力來去因應接下來這樣子國際的要求那我再去問一個就它外籍漁工母國的仲介費用這次是不是也是你們要去處理的範圍"},{"start":666.329,"end":694.22,"text":"跟委員報告一樣啊這個招募費的禁止收取這一個部分我們國內的部分在我們境外僱用的遠洋漁工的部分我們現在已經是已經修法完成了禁止我們的仲介機構對那是這邊是那來源國的部分因為我們也支持就是跟勞動部的政策就是說未來漁工來到台灣都是要零付費但是現在來源國這一端他的收費"},{"start":695.14,"end":713.918,"text":"其實是有一點不夠透明那到底要收多少我想這一個是應該雙邊我們台灣跟來源國雙邊要諮商好如果要由我們台灣的雇主要全額來吸收也沒關係大家要談清楚就是說你來源國那一邊你的費用從"},{"start":715.82,"end":734.753,"text":"這一個護照見檢然後訓練到他的所謂的服務費到底多少可能要講清楚要不然我們僱主會有一個不知所措說那我答應了說由我僱主付那結果像印方收的這個招募費可能6000到7000美金那這個不談清楚的時候是很難跟我們僱主去說明的好 署長一樣這個還是提供我書面資料最後就是針對於"},{"start":745.7,"end":764.172,"text":"能不能擴大我們的災保的納保對象那因為之前我就先請教過部長了那部長說當然沒有辦法向家事移工那我們也有問過漁業署漁業署是說商保都有可是基本上怎麼會跟民團的說法都不一樣因為時間關係我很簡單的就是希望"},{"start":767.234,"end":784.317,"text":"約署可不可以給我你們所謂商保的納保率到底多少那數據提供給我然後未來我覺得還是要問我們的勞動部我們還是希望能夠朝向能夠納入在我們的那個災保法的一個納保對象是否有可能"},{"start":785.143,"end":801.634,"text":"先跟委員報告這一個資料提供沒問題那我們現在法制是強制要求通通是要納入商業保險重點就是問題是你們的納保率說很高跟民團的那個狀況就說的是不一樣所以說請你們提供所有的相關數據給我們讓我們了解到否則的話我們覺得這個根本好像"},{"start":808.118,"end":828.512,"text":"是一邊講這個一邊講那個可是根本我們也是沒有辦法看數據最後我們就希望說不要把部分勞工排除在保障之外應該將境外的聘僱的外籍漁工一起納入到我們的勞動保險的法規所以我還是希望我們的勞動部能夠去研議跟漁業署這邊來共同合作"},{"start":830.083,"end":844.641,"text":"跟我們說明其實包括在這次這個台美的這個貿易談判裡面其實我想農業部約署其實也很清楚的確國際上面是要求說在遠洋漁工他其實要受到的這個"},{"start":846.202,"end":871.095,"text":"勞動上面的權力的保障其實應該要往這個本國人去往這個方向去拉起所以我說這部分其實方向上是這樣所以即便用不同的法規可是這個要求的標準其實現在也要往拉起的方向去目前這是我們跟農業部會分工在跟這個社會的談判裡面其實方向是這樣就算是不同的法規"},{"start":872.156,"end":882.403,"text":"但是盡量要求的標準要趨近好 再麻煩 謝謝好 謝謝丁育群 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离岛他们的体育班变成一种类社服系统"},{"start":140.347,"end":168.245,"text":"他承接了非常多原生家庭有困境的孩子的另外一個去處孩子去那邊有飯吃孩子去那邊有求醫孩子去那邊得到其他的發展也就是在原本的學校系統裡面好像沒有人可以承擔這一切而社福衛教系統可能又沒有辦法完全承擔於是體育班的教練意外的還要變成照顧這些孩子的人所以在這個前提底下體育班何去何從好像沒有人敢談談了這麼久我現在不知道部長"},{"start":169.105,"end":189.052,"text":"你上岸到現在半年了你怎麼看這個問題或者是運動部到目前為止關於體育班何去何從你們做了哪些座談嗎做了哪些政策規劃嗎做了哪些研究嗎部長跟委員報告首先真的很感謝你對我們體育班的學生還有家長這些的重視那我自己身為體育班八年的學生其實我一直認為說體育班"},{"start":190.512,"end":209.062,"text":"我還是希望說他的教育正常化因為自己身為體育班的學童裡面我認為當體育班正常化的時候我們不要放棄學業的時候那我們才有可能將這個學生運動員的學業以及這個數科成績才有機會一起來完成"},{"start":209.582,"end":230.097,"text":"那我自己身為體育班的議員來講那我當然知道這個體育班是跟我們運動部跟教育部需要跨部會來合作那牽扯的這一個部會我們也希望說我們可以在合作的方法讓基層的運動員以及這個體育班能夠在最小的影響下來去完成這個改變"},{"start":232.329,"end":258.485,"text":"部長我花這麼多時間讓你講完你的理念我聽懂了可是我剛問的是您上任到現在做了哪些座談做了哪些改革做了哪些研究做了哪些政策我還是沒有聽到光是週末聯賽這件事情其實就是部長你積極可以做的因為過度密集的聯賽不管是在週末還是在週間它都大大影響了體育班的孩子的正常學習我們不要管它正常到什麼程度光是過去報導者在前年所做的一個報導"},{"start":259.326,"end":273.322,"text":"以棒球為主的體育班他們的學術成績在會考的時候他們的C等級是一般學生的36倍而國家在培養這些運動選手的同時有沒有讓這些小選手知道我們可能不小心犧牲了你們的什麼"},{"start":274.343,"end":276.484,"text":"然后会是教育部跟我们运动部之间去做这个相关的议题的研讨"},{"start":305.49,"end":333.467,"text":"還有嗎這部分的話當然我們在跨部會我們跟教育部其實一直在聯繫平台上一直在體育班的這個議題其實一直在溝通那不管是專任運動教練的何去何從還是我們基層體育班的狀況其實這部分我相信真的是需要很長期的評估因為它牽扯的面向極廣不管是專任運動教練還有體育班還有剛剛委員您重視的這個週末比賽然後"},{"start":334.247,"end":353.156,"text":"一到五平日的時候正常上課的這部分我覺得都是一個需要一個長期評估畢竟身為體育班的一員其實在我還是學生的時候其實就已經是這樣的現行體制那我們希望一個比較具有常態性的評估之後我們再來去做這個體育班的相對的視野"},{"start":354.209,"end":371.745,"text":"好部長我跟你說我會繼續追蹤我覺得就算我剛剛的舉例其實你們都可以開始做但是我到現在還沒有看到作為光是辦基層教練的座談會這件事情你透過不管是在野黨還是執政黨的委員的選區服務去辦座談會你都可以讓基層教練的焦慮降低"},{"start":372.185,"end":387.445,"text":"但連這麼簡單的事情我也沒有看到體育運動部有態度或者直接把選手找來座談現在所有第一線的國手也好或是在職業線上的選手我相信他們都樂於跟部長你分享關於體育班的存費光是這兩件這麼簡單的事情運動部就可以做"},{"start":388.306,"end":405.502,"text":"我不確定跟預算有沒有關係但我認為光是這件事情如果都沒有願意啟動我難以想像教練會有多麼焦慮我難以想像想要留在體育班的孩子不知道自己的未來在哪裡我也不知道想要改革的選手他們看到希望在哪裡所以這麼簡單的事情拜託運動部開始研議接下來"},{"start":406.523,"end":420.879,"text":"兒少工作證這件事情講了很久了部長您上任之後我相信你不是第一次聽到兒少工作證我們看到台中荒謬的事情荒謬至極荒謬至極我要講三遍荒謬至極我想要告訴部長在您還沒有當部長之前"},{"start":421.9,"end":437.396,"text":"很多教文委員就已經告訴過當時的體育署我們積極的作為可以有哪些消極的作為可以有哪些事後補強的動作可以有哪些我光是告訴部長一件事情這一次台中這個案子我真的認為它只是冰山的一角"},{"start":438.59,"end":454.095,"text":"當然盧秀燕市長必須要負責台中市教育局必須要負責甚至他們到今天還在丟包甩鍋但我要講盤點過去這麼多年運動現場所發生的身心暴力跟性暴力這件事情沒有降低部長沒有降低"},{"start":455.035,"end":475.137,"text":"所以我要說我們辦公室處拜託運動部或是當時的體育署研究的一件事情我簡單跟部長說來我們跳到建議這一頁我講一件事情就好來下一張光是國體法修法裡面除了讓合格教練的名字可以積極被看見我之前就說所有被撤銷證照這些教練們"},{"start":479.324,"end":485.735,"text":"所有被撤銷證照的教練們他們的名字沒有被公開所以他如果今天從棒球端被除名"},{"start":486.789,"end":512.265,"text":"他的體育能力夠好他明年後年他就可以去考足球工作證他可以當足球教練然後繼續流傳到足球界他如果被足球界提名他可以換到桌球這樣的事情不是從天上掉下來也不是我亂說是運動界就有這個現象所以你會看到這些人渣他繼續在現場危害小孩可是運動部毫無作為連消極的去公開他的名字在他的相關證件上"},{"start":513.326,"end":540.651,"text":"把他的名字放出來都不行當時我們辦公室還幫你們找了法務部幫你們找了個資籌備處來告訴你們相關法規範是有依據的不會有個資的問題到現在為止發生台中這樣的事情部長我要跟你說他不會是最後一件只要你們不願意做相關的事情你們不願意建立正向的制度你們也不願意建立消極這個制度他就不會停止所有這些人會繼續在流竄運動現場危害我們的兒少"},{"start":541.806,"end":556.835,"text":"而孩子說不出口這不是孩子的責任我要再說一次孩子說不出口不是孩子的責任而這些垃圾人渣繼續留在現場如果部長你沒有作為這些人他所有的證照相關協會發給你的主管機關是你運動部"},{"start":559.48,"end":576.605,"text":"所以我要說光是公開被撤銷教練證這件事情沒有這麼困難如果部長你當時沒有上任你不確定那個法規制度我們辦公室可以再幫你們召開一次會議我可以找各自籌備處我可以找法務部到底有沒有侵害工作權有沒有侵害隱私沒有沒有沒有"},{"start":578.149,"end":597.756,"text":"所以我們辦公室會再積極找你們還有從法治面如何把不適任人員跟運動專業人員這件事情做雙軌查詢也講了三年沒有作為就是沒有作為我們的法治是在保護這些犯罪人繼續留在陪伴兒少運動工作的現場這是我們現在的法治的灰色模糊地帶"},{"start":598.416,"end":621.771,"text":"所有的立法委員都想要協助你們補足這一塊不是只有我們辦公室范雲委員也好雅琳委員也好玉琴委員也好佩玉委員大家都在告訴你們這件事情法規部分補起來我們就有機會讓這些人不要流竄到現場部長你知道嗎當運動部成立之後社區運動成立之後這些人多了多少工作現場也就是說他們多了多少機會可以危害我們的兒少"},{"start":622.651,"end":638.865,"text":"他有學校的社團他有社區的運動他還有社區的運動中心這些人他無止境的在維護我們的兒少而教育部也好 運動部也好毫無作為的這件事情告訴我要保護他們的工作權請問孩子的兒少生存權在哪裡"},{"start":640.882,"end":667.357,"text":"我必須要這麼憤怒我是真心的感到悲傷焦慮跟憤怒所有這些孩子未來他在成長的過程他要如何去承擔誰要陪伴他所以我們把法治補起來給家長一個接住他們的可能性我們在犯罪之前就把這個事情補起來部長跟委員您報告我們國體法已經有相關的草案已經有那個擬出來了"},{"start":669.195,"end":687.892,"text":"你們這個會起到排國體法嗎你們有列為優先法案嗎跟委員報告是我們在這個部分我們肯定肯定會由我們運動部來一起統整出來在這個兒少部分我們肯定會來去做跟委員您剛剛提到這部分我們在法制上我們覺得會積極的去處理"},{"start":690.194,"end":708.822,"text":"我希望可以在這個會期也要拜託主席不管是羅廷偉召委或者是吳立華召委我們這個希望除了國體法修法之外我剛已經講了現在你們就可以做了我再說一次你們現在就可以有作為我當然認同國體法補起來沒有問題可是我要再說一次我們已經研究過你們現在就可以有作為"},{"start":710.131,"end":726.608,"text":"我們可以在之後再討論最後我講一個適應體育我相信也是所有區域委員之後會面對的問題主席不好意思再給我一分鐘運動部成立之後有了適應運動司適應運動司對於很多需要適應體育的小孩會是很大的幫助"},{"start":727.048,"end":752.038,"text":"我們發現了一個陳情的狀況之前我在司法法治委員會的時候我們協助矯正學校的孩子爭取到了適應運動適應體育的補助感謝當時的國教署積極的有所作為有所承擔結果運動部分出去之後矯正學校的孩子再也沒有適應運動的可能性了所以我們就來問了一下你們運動部我們通常運動部的回應是這樣部長你自己聽聽看我不確定你知不知道他們給我們回應你們運動部說"},{"start":754.199,"end":762.407,"text":"在適應運動的部分本部辦理學校的適應運動推展事宜是由適應運動司統籌辦理而教育部必須要組織課程內的適應體育推動而課程外的適應運動則由運動部辦理"},{"start":769.935,"end":795.412,"text":"部長我剛念了這一段你有沒有發現一下子是適應運動一下是適應體育一下是適應體育一下是適應運動到底在你們部裡面跟教育部的交接到底如何定義適應運動如何適應體育然後教育部則告訴我們說適應體育業務分工並沒有分校園內跟校園外作為全責劃分部長我就問一句話今天我是學校老師我收到這個公文我如何定義我的孩子要用的是適應運動還是適應體育或者是我在社區裡面推動適應運動還是適應體育的時候"},{"start":800.595,"end":827.053,"text":"如果兩個部會在這些事情上做了業務分工連名字定義都搞不清楚請問現場學校老師要怎麼辦所有需要適應運動服務的這些孩子怎麼辦而且教育部現在開始推普特融合已經推三年了所以在一般的學校裡面有大量的特教生他們需要適應運動適應體育而這件事情教育部的態度跟運動部的態度依然讓我到現在看不清楚就是看不清楚所以有一般學校的問題有特教學校的問題有矯正學校的問題還有社區內社區外的問題"},{"start":830.716,"end":852.648,"text":"部長跟委員您報告在課程內的適應這一部分是屬於教育部的那我們稱為示意體育但是課程外的話是屬於什麼叫課程內早上八點上課上到八點五十叫課程內所以下課時間叫課程外還是在四點以前叫課程內四點以後叫課程外跟委員您報告在學校裡面的體育運動我們通常會稱為體育那在"},{"start":857.463,"end":872.446,"text":"學校以外的我們稱為運動那當然我們有專任運動教練這些都是我們屬於我們運動部外加在學校裡面好部長你聽到了你自己都講了適應運動跟適應體育到底你們跟教育部的分工我到現在還是沒有聽懂"},{"start":873.686,"end":888.767,"text":"我們辦公室會找你們開會我剛剛說了一般學校 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大部分都對我們被提名人是相當肯定大概只有兩位有提出對於我們今天被提名人的一些質疑其中有一位就是我們的"},{"start":132.702,"end":161.269,"text":"這個高檢署的主任檢察官齁這個有針對你提出了蠻具體的幾個質疑而且基本上我看他的質疑是認為說你的這個事任性有問題啦齁那這部分我首先我先就程序上面來請教一下我們主席啦齁主席這個我們昨天的這個公聽會的這個與會代表是是怎麼邀請的是請這個還是請市長說明一下所以我們這個最我們昨天這個高檢署的主任檢察官是代表我們法務部出席的嗎"},{"start":162.942,"end":176.601,"text":"這個我說明一下 這個跟省委員報告 這個是各黨團來推薦什麼 各黨團是各黨團推薦各黨團推薦 所以昨天那個不是法務部的代表那昨天那個是那個是"},{"start":179.988,"end":206.508,"text":"陳鴻達主任檢察官陳鴻達主任檢察官非常優秀啦我想說法務部派出的代表這個我等一下查完再詳細正確的資料再跟陳委員做報告那這個我就想說怎麼法務部派出的代表結果對我們這個跟陳委員報告那個陳鴻達主任檢察官是中國國民黨推薦的是國民黨推薦的我想說是法務部推薦的因為法務部推薦的"},{"start":207.475,"end":232.812,"text":"的代表在對我們這個人選有這麼大的質疑,那就是大問題了如果是國民黨推薦的代表,那我們就大概可以理解雖然說我們這個,從他這個主任檢察官我個人也是非常尊敬他的操作,他甚至應該是這一次也是檢察總長的人選之一啦所以我個人是對他個人完全沒有任何批評我只是要理解說這昨天的公聽會到底是怎麼樣產生的這些人選是國民黨推薦"},{"start":235.282,"end":256.541,"text":"但是我們就是針對是誰提出的不重要了但是昨天我們陳主任檢察官他提出了四個大的質疑我覺得這部分因為昨天會後好像有記者去採訪我們我們這個徐主任檢察官好像有去採訪你了但是你昨天你說你不回應因為你這回應今天又要來回應好像你一句我一句你的說法就變成"},{"start":257.802,"end":275.675,"text":"你一句我一句所以今天我想這個就是應該要正式讓你回應的有關於我們昨天在公聽會裡面這個主任檢察官所提出的我幫他整理了一下大概就是四個四個質疑第一個就是說你在行政履歷以外"},{"start":277.433,"end":299.613,"text":"認為你是不是有這個可以被檢驗的辦案貢獻是足以支撐這個檢查總長職務的核心戰績他提到核心戰績這個部分這是第一個問題第二個問題是你擔任過政務次長這剛好吳宗憲委員有提說你政務次長跟這個背景跟這個檢查高位的這個分際這兩個職務是不是有衝突"},{"start":303.556,"end":329.899,"text":"第三個是你承認國安副局長的歷練到底是加分還是減分第四個問題是說你的這個支持基礎不足因為這次檢察官協會跟健清檢改這些專業團體這次沒有投票沒有投票所以他認為你這個支持基礎不足是不是這個一點點我覺得你今天這個機會時間很短我希望你針對這個部分一個一個回答"},{"start":330.62,"end":342.795,"text":"第一個所以你這個有沒有可供檢驗的核心戰績這部分請說明一下好那我先跟委員報告一下當時黨團提出來的問題是你擔任檢察官辦過哪些"},{"start":348.502,"end":363.173,"text":"重大的案件列出10點那我就很直覺的反應我從82年開始去算我就挑了10件各位委員就看這些案子因為我有篇幅的問題我沒有很詳細的寫其實這在當時82年83年84年已經算是在我們那裡算是蠻重大的案子"},{"start":369.597,"end":391.432,"text":"包括久慶的超代案 包括很多大安溪整個大安溪的沙石盜採案那些案子都非常非常的大所以當然如果跟北檢的規模比較或許人家會認為我們不夠可是如果說今天要把我擔任檢察長主任檢察官的領導指揮的案子也算進來的話我擔任過新北的檢察長"},{"start":392.293,"end":410.932,"text":"我們辦過了軍備局的張將軍這一個跟廠商中工所取的四千多萬的一個匯款案那我在彰化的時候是最有名的就是綠能的案子我們辦過普峰的食品物理案"},{"start":411.693,"end":429.572,"text":"同開的一個工業污泥案我們還要求補豐跟相關的廠商必須把農地恢復原狀這為國家也省了十幾億還有竹東我還辦了一個竹東六天辦了一千個人次的一個大型的會選案"},{"start":430.653,"end":453.595,"text":"這些在在都考驗了我們的一個領導的能力所以這些都是矚目暗刺只是說你沒有把它寫在自傳裡面沒有沒有我只寫我當小檢察官時候的所以陳主任陳主任我當然非常的敬重他是拿現在這個把檢察長的這一塊也算領導同意的話那當然就會不一樣那我寫的是我個人偵辦案件個人"},{"start":455.737,"end":466.944,"text":"主政的案子這是第一個問題大概就這樣回答那他就特別提到說這個你你沒有擔任過台北地檢署跟二審檢查機關這個最能夠這個最能夠展現這個檢查首長的核心戰場"},{"start":475.332,"end":489.1,"text":"他說你沒有站過核心戰場我當過新北的檢察長我的規模不會低於台北地檢署所以我當時來的時候一年期間剛好是疫情最嚴重的時候"},{"start":491.081,"end":513.697,"text":"我認為說這個就有點主觀了啦所以當然我們型態招檢察長他擔任過這兩個職務啦台北地檢署二層這個檢察機關的職務但是他前一任江惠民他也沒有擔任過啊他也沒有擔任過這個所謂核心戰場他也沒有擔任過啦所以我認為說這個質疑就有點主觀了接下來他說政務次長跟這個最高檢的分際"},{"start":515.078,"end":540.589,"text":"這根本以我的理解我們現任的這個型態招檢察長好像也擔任過政務次長他是不是有擔任過政務次長所以我想這個就會變成有點針對個人了啦我是覺得說這過去你不是說第一個說當次長再來當檢察長你是第一個那大家當然會質疑你這個問題但是事實上你並過去這樣子的例子包括現任的檢察長也都是擔任過政務次長所以我認為說這個應該不是問題啦"},{"start":543.49,"end":571.103,"text":"那這個有關這個你擔任國安局副局長這個部分這部分就好像我這個要幫國安局講一些話國安局從1955年就成立它是在等於是保護國家的安全以及我們元首的安全這是沒有顏色的任何人執政他就會要保護他要保護這個國家安全所以他是完全是在犧牲奉獻的無名英雄"},{"start":571.363,"end":598.318,"text":"好,不只這樣子啦,事實上以我所知啊昨天公聽會大家所關注的這個大概八大議題裡面有關詐欺案件其實詐欺案件現在已經是列為國安單位的重要的業務之一了所以你曾經在國安單位對於現在大家重視的這個詐欺案件他的辦理他當然也有一個重要的這個他當然是一個重要的加分啊包括現在我們大家"},{"start":599.458,"end":618.991,"text":"眾所矚目不分黨派許許多多的這個對岸的滲透的這些國家安全案件的司法審理這個你擔任國安局這個當然是加分而且我個人認為甚至是我們現在在偵辦案件也必須跟他們能夠協調那最後一個質疑很抱歉時間超過那我最後一個質疑我覺得你也還是要說明一下"},{"start":619.631,"end":629.883,"text":"他說有關檢察官協會漸進減改專業團體的支持基礎不足啦齁我所知道的他們過去都有辦理投票啦這次沒有辦理 為什麼"},{"start":631.293,"end":657.714,"text":"這個是因為這個我不能去有啦我幫你說啦因為這是他們決定的他們有發表理由啦他們理由是認為齁這個目前的這個制度應該要改革啦他們認為說在制度改革之前齁他們再繼續進行這樣的票選是沒有意義的所以他不是針對他完全沒有針對任何的人選等等的問題啦齁他們這次之所以沒有進行票選是因為他們認為這個制度必須要改革所以他們這次沒有進行票選"},{"start":658.354,"end":675.815,"text":"所以我個人認為說這也不應該成為理由不過這個零零總總在媒體上面呈現出來聽起來好像雜音就變得很多了好像說有這個理由有那個理由但是其實我們今天這樣子經過透過今天這樣子整理其實他大概就是質疑的人大概就質疑了就這幾點"},{"start":677.256,"end":695.64,"text":"這幾點有很多也不是你個人是過去歷任檢察長他本來更重要的我們檢察總長的這個職務在我們目前的法令上面其實他的角色職權是相當隱晦的其實他的在法制上面的這個規定其實很少甚至你連檢察總長"},{"start":697.961,"end":708.592,"text":"你要做什麼樣的職務什麼樣職權都沒有我們目前只有憲法就只有這個司法人員人事條例裡面有第16條有規定的最高檢查總署"},{"start":710.355,"end":728.941,"text":"對那個司法人員人事條例16條再來就是法院執法法官法也有法官法指揮監督他對於對於這個我們目前檢查總長他的職權職務要求其實我們目前的法令的規定是很隱晦的但是簡單講大家其實從昨天的公聽會我們聽起來大概"},{"start":730.101,"end":741.085,"text":"對檢察總長期許都差不多但是最重要的是說面對像這樣子很多的也不是很多面對這些質疑我覺得你一點一點都必須要說明清楚有很多我個人認為其實"},{"start":743.619,"end":772.046,"text":"應該不是你個人的問題這應該是歷任這個目前這個整個制度檢查狀況制度設計上面要不然你在法令上面就排除說當擔任過次長的不能當這個主任檢察官如果沒有你目前在我看你是我不敢像那個像其實法界也學術界也有人說你是五星級的人選那我不敢在這裡說說你是五星級人選但是我認為你是以這個資格條件來看我認為是相當符合資格的人選"},{"start":772.486,"end":772.506,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168318","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168318","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc769e7b3b852f4d5caff16f9abdda18f34ce3311c87f2344392fac930a77093c4f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴瑞隆","委員發言時間":"09:30:08 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謝謝昭緯 請拱部長還有我們公民會陳代理主委跟法務部的李專委法務部"},{"start":10.151,"end":33.31,"text":"部長我先請教一個問題昨天有委員關心到這個南梓鹽區台積電的水電準備好了嗎那我記得在去年的4月25號我諮詢過郭志偉部長其實水更電P6廠都已經準備好了也都沒有問題事實上國際大廠的投資也一定準備好才敢投資沒有準備好沒有人敢投資的那經過了一年有變化嗎水電有變化嗎"},{"start":37.393,"end":55.625,"text":"應該是沒有 應該是OK的啦都沒有問題嗎如果有問題他們會跟我講對啊 水電應該主要都是在經濟部轄下負責問你最清楚了嘛 水電是沒有問題的啦那因為去年11月25 半年前我們也做過考察一樣沒有問題啦所以我想這個要再次確認因為這樣會引起大家很大的一個擔憂啦我想這個是沒有問題的"},{"start":56.505,"end":77.537,"text":"那我再問一下最近的水情大家也高度關心這個清明年假的時候有高平溪的流量有大幅的增加了從7.5cm增加到19.1cm所以水情目前看起來應該相對是穩定吧對因為這一波的風面雨情還算是OK啦但是我們還是要觀察這個汛期比較"},{"start":79.378,"end":106.21,"text":"還是要持續觀察 謹慎小心因為接下來枯水期還沒有結束那也希望後面的持續性有一個穩定性的降雨然後給中南部的水情能更加穩定好 這個請部長再持續的關注好 那接下來回到今天的這個主題部分我還是想請教一下部長其實我們已經有增加了生產的量不管是中油跟台塑化中油增加的整個量到五月份會到九萬噸"},{"start":107.711,"end":122.761,"text":"台塑化的部分兩個廠裡面其實供應內需的廠這個也沒有問題所以整個原料增加的狀況下那還是有命名到了一些漲價的一些問題現在缺貨以外是另外一個是漲價的問題啦這個漲價問題部長怎麼來協助解決"},{"start":137.931,"end":161.441,"text":"那這個評價的部分呢按照這個台塑給我們的資料他明天就可以開始出貨所以這一批貨然後到這個製造端就是塑膠袋的製造端所以部長在抑制這個漲價這個部分經濟部這邊跟各部會之間會全力來協助嗎是是是現在看來有的會甚至增加了0.5%就是50%漲價50%這個部分部裡面跟各部會會全力來"},{"start":167.544,"end":184.845,"text":"穩住這樣的一個漲價的狀況我前兩天跟這個商圈座談當然有一部分是有漲價就像您講的大概漲30%左右但是事實上也有很好的這個通路商他們跟這些攤商講就是說他絕對不漲價"},{"start":185.926,"end":212.549,"text":"我希望部裡面要全力的讓這些部分都穩定下來好不好因為攤商都是在第一線的那這個部分如果有漲價就會造成大家心裡的波動缺貨絕對不能夠發生而漲價這部分也要有效的去遏止我問一下公民會主委好嗎在漲價這件事情跟缺貨囤貨這件事情上面公民會的作為各位我們報告一下我想公民會是針對有沒有聯合拒絕出貨聯合漲價的行為那目前看起來是沒有這樣的行為"},{"start":213.069,"end":232.855,"text":"但是我們的確觀察到價格有上漲然後供貨有一點我希望公平會更積極的去查處就是你們有查處的時候才會讓不肖的一些業者我相信這是極少數的不肖業者但是如果有這樣的狀況如果沒有積極的去嚇阻的話有可能會擴散開所以我們有配合聯合基金小組我們自己本身也有立案調查所以目前已經調查了17家廠商現在幾家廠商17家廠商我們已經查過了"},{"start":235.396,"end":257.596,"text":"那接下來呢接下來還是因為這兩週的時間會稍微那個但是這也是一個關鍵的時刻啦因為雖然停火了兩個禮拜的時間但這個時間點也是我們要穩定住整個所有狀況的一個最好的時間點是那主委這邊這兩個禮拜還會持續的我們會持續去會加大動作啦我會繼續好好那接下來是不是請法務部我會請教一下好不好最近有沒有相關的查查的一些方案"},{"start":260.393,"end":275.822,"text":"最近都是由法務部召集這個聯合稽查小組在做稽查的動作那調查局也會出動他們的同仁去集合場上那目前查查的狀況怎麼樣目前查起來應該是還算正常"},{"start":276.909,"end":299.982,"text":"我們希望這一塊包括各部會啦經濟部公平會法務部要大家聯合來合作讓整個一方面這個不要有這些異常的一些漲價的行為那一方面也要讓整個供貨來穩定我是不是再回到部長好不好部長可不可以再跟大家確認接下來的所有的這些不會有所謂的斷貨或缺貨這樣的狀況的發生"},{"start":301.98,"end":324.925,"text":"對就是剛剛委員報告就是我們從料源開始就增加了那明天台塑就可以開始出貨而且這一批是平價的貨那我們盡快的可以到生產端所以這樣來看來更沒有缺貨或斷貨這樣的可能性從量來講的話是絕對不會那所以請經濟部要全力的去協助不能夠讓有比較如果"},{"start":325.786,"end":347.326,"text":"說比較偏遠或是什麼樣,臨時調不到,跟我們講請基部主動去協助他們,偏遠你也知道哪些地方比較偏遠比較會有一些問題主動跟他們聯繫協助他們,不要讓他們遭遇到這樣的困難讓民間很清楚知道政府是有作為在有做事在協助整件事情不要讓塑膠袋這樣的問題去蔓延出去"},{"start":347.967,"end":368.366,"text":"好嗎好的好謝謝那因為像龍華市場跟寧夏市場有提到這些部分我也希望這樣的狀況是事實上寧夏市場他們是減塑的他們就是希望長久以來都這樣所以座談的時候他們希望就是說不要用塑膠袋他們過去以來都是這樣"},{"start":368.806,"end":387.24,"text":"減塑當然是一個好的方向啦但是在這樣的狀況下的時候還是要持續啦像現在全台灣涉及的這個攤販的一萬多家裡面光高雄就有1916家佔了很高的比例那很多的一些熱食或等等大家慣性才會使用所以當然我們鼓勵減塑但是這個是一個自發性的行為但是"},{"start":390.663,"end":405.898,"text":"我覺得在於便利性跟在於地方的攤商的使用性上面不要因為這樣而引起一些不必要的民怨我覺得這件事情還是要去能夠經濟部跟各部要穩健的一些作為啦是是是好 好 謝謝那再來我是不是請一下農業部好嗎"},{"start":409.807,"end":434.846,"text":"我是要肯定農業部陳部長跟所有同仁的努力我們的防疫作為讓我們重回了三大病株的非疫區那這個部分其實也是一個很不容易又再恢復回來的我們也希望後續上面持續要穩健的守住那除了這個之外我們也希望把台灣豬這樣的品牌持續推向國際讓更多人知道主委這件事情上有沒有什麼樣的作為跟看法"},{"start":435.406,"end":454.285,"text":"我想第一個部分就是這次能夠非常快地重回我們的WHO所認定的一個非疫區最主要是我們當初大家一起努力用高強度的靜音靜載然後儘速的清零讓這個病源鎖在一個案例場那後續大概一個半月就通過了"},{"start":455.286,"end":476.941,"text":"這個對於農業部的作為我必須給予肯定所以後續我想我們持續邊境的管制後市場的稽查跟養豬場的生物安全這三個面向我們會持續的去努力那更重要的是外銷我們要讓我們的豬肉重返外銷市場所以我們現在也在跟主要的外銷的這些廠商聯絡別拿幾個是我們現在主要想要去珍惜的外銷市場"},{"start":477.802,"end":502.515,"text":"菲律賓現在是過往我們之前已經好不容易打通的生鮮豬肉可以外銷的部分所以這個部分我想會努力還有一個新加坡的部分也是我們在努力的部分那日本的部分因為我們本來幾乎快談成了就是可以生鮮外銷後來因為又有非洲豬的問題那現在我們會從儘速的再去跟日本市場去做爭取但是日本的加工的豬肉是沒問題的"},{"start":503.676,"end":520.749,"text":"所以我們也希望日本這塊 剛剛幾個國家的部分我們也希望盡快的打通這樣的一個通路讓台灣豬更加的行銷到其他的國家去對 我們會來努力那另外最後一個我請教一下有一些講法對美談判裡面有所謂的滅龍這樣的說法主委 這個是事實嗎我覺得"},{"start":522.472,"end":540.802,"text":"外界這種滅龍我覺得是一個不負責任的說法因為SSG的免徵其實它只針對美國它整個制度還是在的然後我們在這樣子的一個進口的一個設計的保護的過程中第一關就是進口產品一定要低於其他的競爭對手國"},{"start":541.903,"end":561.142,"text":"他如果沒有低於其他競爭對手國他也沒辦法進來很順暢然後另外我們有TRQ的保護那TRQ的保護的過程中就還是有一些關稅的一個阻擋的部分所以我想我們有很好的一個作為那萬一有什麼樣子需要去協助的部分我們有農安基金來協助"},{"start":561.923,"end":573.28,"text":"部長這未來可能會越來越多這樣的說法我希望農業部要立即的澄清跟說明讓大家知道我們在保護我們的農業在保護我們的農民上面的作為是很積極的是好謝謝部長好謝謝好謝謝各位農委員接下來"}]}},{"id":"168317","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168317","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7aff57578e56658d2fa1e45401cc1f585ce3311c87f2344397f0c5e2542c48c5b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳永康","委員發言時間":"09:32:37 - 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主委好剛剛聽取的報告內心感觸很深第一個我們的這些榮民前輩前半生在國軍服務犧牲奉獻雖然檯面上我們看不到顯著的功勳但是實際上他們每一個人的犧牲奉獻"},{"start":30.305,"end":48.732,"text":"以及他的愛國情操其實不輸每一個國民那麼因此除了對榮民的照顧以外就剛才也聽到榮總意願那我們榮總的量能未來成長的這個capacity我們都是表達支持跟肯定但是最近我們看到國際情勢像俄烏戰爭"},{"start":50.713,"end":75.795,"text":"以色列在加萨的冲突以及最近美国跟伊朗的冲突除了军职人员还有很多老百姓的伤患那如果碰到这种问题一个是我们未来有没有这个预量在应急的规划中间先做一点潜在的前瞻计划做规划那么另外一个就是跟医疗体系本身没有冲突的就是"},{"start":76.556,"end":105.104,"text":"因為意外事件我們發現如果我們的試電中斷了那麼我們各個醫院他的緊急發電機的儲油跟儲水這個是可以修法來提升他能力他都有這個能力可是因為是消防安全法比方講你的儲油是多少小時這個東西我們要考慮到未來的潛在衝突希望在供水供電在試電中斷的過程中我們能夠持續有一個時間"},{"start":106.084,"end":128.025,"text":"那么下面我做几个建议我特别强调的就是我们这个推幅会对农家的照顾推幅会就知道农民需要什么就做什么东西那我们从的目标方法手段这个我们都有一个完整的作业的流程那我就提出几个建议"},{"start":129.006,"end":145.3,"text":"第一個是降低榮總的工作負荷在就醫方面醫療體系前提下我們篩選民間優質的醫療體系來共同合作這樣可以把他的負擔稍微降低一點那麼民間也可以跟榮總來做接軌"},{"start":147.915,"end":172.355,"text":"第二个舒缓后诊看诊的时间就是善用的绿色通道包括这些先进的资讯系统确保流程的效率跟服务的品质减轻这个焦虑与病痛那么周全医疗体系环境刚才您讲了将来AI系统一定是取代了很多复杂性的工作那前面的委员咨询也强调了"},{"start":172.935,"end":198.384,"text":"AI只要是资讯先进啊你就考虑到治安的问题那回过头来我们又不得考虑如果暂时的时候荣家的医院跟三军现有的医院这些对于现职的军人的战伤他的个人的这个资料是不是可以流通而不是要进去重新再验血重新再做测量这是"},{"start":199.673,"end":218.703,"text":"一个新的approach但是呢安全的问题也要强化那最主要就是现在法规下整合大数据以及优化数据库这个干在您的刚才报告中间我们听到在在在推进我们会支持这个理念那最后就是一个调整旧养金的给付"},{"start":219.423,"end":235.215,"text":"领取救养金的荣民期待是不是建议能够比照公务人员呢或者均值的调整同步也提升一下这个军公教这个比照的一个方法请这个主委给一些意见和指导"},{"start":238.063,"end":262.916,"text":"謝謝委員這些精闢的指導我想我們要服務照顧農民是我們的本務委員這些指導我覺得都非常的重要不管是降低農種的工作的負荷還有綠色通道我們的一個貫徹跟民間的合作周全的醫療跟調整的救養金這些意見都非常的寶貴我想我們回去"},{"start":263.556,"end":276.122,"text":"我們各處會做分辦然後再跟委員做回報特別是剛剛委員所提到的我們暫時的醫材我們主要是配合醫政動員的準備計劃我們儲備有25項的藥品跟70項的衛材這個是按照動員計劃來的其中有17項是重要的藥品還有13項的衛材"},{"start":285.866,"end":303.087,"text":"是在三個總院從110年開始就已經儲備了而且它是25萬人份然後平常就按照時間來推成換新那平時它是有兩到三周的庫存量那一到三級的管制藥品有一個月的庫存量所以這些"},{"start":305.29,"end":318.729,"text":"從這個中東戰爭我們都在做一些檢視做一些檢驗看怎麼樣能夠符合戰事的需求以及剛剛講的動員準備計劃裡面的規範那剛剛委員提到的降低總統的工作負荷我們"},{"start":320.455,"end":334.756,"text":"台中總統最近獲得友善環境醫學中心獎獲獎他在裏面採取了很多措施包含委員所提到的怎麼樣減輕我們的負荷我剛在業務報告裏面也報告了"},{"start":336.578,"end":351.717,"text":"怎麼樣去智慧化一些設施跟設備的一些徵購減輕我們醫護人員尤其護理師、照護人員的一個負擔那台中人種特別他們是把護病比給它降低我覺得這個措施可以然後自己去排班"},{"start":352.878,"end":356.1,"text":"謝謝主委的回應我想我們要大家努力要強化對農家的照顧作為對當年農民犧牲奉獻的一個回饋謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168332","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168332","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc756fbbe4782057453b509ad0e4ca3d8668ce3249aa741ed4166db0adbae60701a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"09:27:37 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對不對那交通部勒"},{"start":354.243,"end":382.445,"text":"總共新北市報了三案,那我們合了兩案總共三案的錢是八千一百三十五萬所以你合訂的比例因為我都有在追我認為你們的合訂比例也不算低那你有的是還沒合訂吧所以你們剛剛的回答是不漂亮的你們剛剛交通部你們的回答是不漂亮的"},{"start":384.156,"end":409.178,"text":"對啊,來到這邊你回答立委,你這樣子回答會造成全國的誤解還好我都有在追蹤這個整個永續提升人權安全計畫的這個,我都還有在追蹤我就覺得不對啊,你們回答的是不大對的啊,對不對所以你們要回答要精確一點啦,好不好"},{"start":412.535,"end":439.882,"text":"所以我拜託一下署長署長我剛剛說的那些我們不是要找地方政府麻煩我們只是要求他要做得快速一點然後照計畫來不要一個案子下去然後拖了很久你結果造成民怨然後地方政府就說沒有啊這是中央的啊中央的事啊他不知道是地方政府發包的"},{"start":441.252,"end":453.393,"text":"那結果你們都背黑鍋而且我也覺得這樣不對你一個工程就要盡速做嘛你要嘛要求地方政府你要變更計畫你要做什麼我們不反對"},{"start":454.417,"end":471.749,"text":"但你實效性 工程的實效性 你要把它整合起來嘛 一起做嘛而不是他們就 有的是這個發包 那個發包 結果這樣一段一段做那結果造成了交通擁擠 造成了很多的問題那他們一推 這是中央的計畫"},{"start":473.891,"end":484.043,"text":"這個我認為不對啦,對全國人民,對每天在那邊出路的人,在那邊走的人,我認為都是不對的我們會要求設計階段就全部把它整合好好,謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168331","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168331","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc71ecfe1d406da7e62b509ad0e4ca3d8668ce3249aa741ed41dff3bbbc96e0e24c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"09:16:14 - 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謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請內政部劉思芳部長 國土署蔡署長以及交通部門城政次好 麻煩部長 署長政次"},{"start":27.624,"end":53.196,"text":"好謝謝謝謝雷部長今天討論的重點是有關於政府人本交通的政策那這個政策是400億的經費那總共我們的這個執行期間是民國113年到116年執行那本席非常支持這樣子人本建設讓我們的人行道我們的交通可以更符合我們全台灣各個行人也是我們的"},{"start":53.976,"end":68.995,"text":"大家的我們的鄉親讓他們在行的過程中更安全走路更平穩更平順那尤其有這個現在以人為本的交通環境是現代化城市發展的核心指標那可是依照"},{"start":69.535,"end":94.892,"text":"行政院今年1月召開的中央道路交通安全匯報等等報告裡面顯示目前我們市區人行道的普及率還是4成左右所以目前還是有人與車爭道的危險的處境所以我覺得這部分我也是希望說大家共同來努力一起繼續來推行這樣的政策尤其這個匯報裡面的報告也顯示"},{"start":97.513,"end":112.662,"text":"我們目前來講我們是希望說我們114年我們的目標是希望整體這個因為行人或者是開車的人的整體死亡的率可以下降10%行人的死亡率下降15%的階段目標那很可惜114年的這個達成的"},{"start":116.406,"end":143.309,"text":"這個目標只有降幅3.1%所以這個我們也要繼續來去努力那這邊我想要修緣提一個點就是中央跟地方我們在努力在爭取經費以及建設完工了以後我們的完工率其實是非常的高的可是我們有時候把這個路段給改善了以後我們後續的維護是不是說中央跟地方我們一起來努力"},{"start":143.809,"end":162.589,"text":"因為我們還是有看到違規車輛停在我們把新修好的人行道上或是商家把一些雜物隨意堆放早日行人最初還是沒有辦法走在這個人行道上等等這樣子的問題請問我們部長內政部長跟交通部的次長有沒有一些解決的方案"},{"start":164.189,"end":188.897,"text":"報告委員你所提到的部分就是已經完成了這些小型的道路工程那按照地方制度法或是按照我們中央在這次專案上面的計畫的補助我們希望在完工之後那既然完工已經完成了那地方上面的話就應該在維修的日常支出裡面由地方政府來負責那這樣子比較好因為我們希望在這個大的計畫"},{"start":190.157,"end":216.325,"text":"持續往外擴充就是說人行道路的安全還是持續補充我想這樣會比較好否則我們把經費把它挪到說是做維護的支出的話它其實能夠普及率就降低好 謝謝部長那我再後來繼續請交通部所以道路的維護跟後續的使用的狀況就是說也希望地方政府一起來努力不然中央政府如果要把這個錢再來使用的話可能經費不是那麼充足"},{"start":217.125,"end":243.505,"text":"那我想要請教交通部的部分就是說交通部針對最近這個今年1月份單月死亡人數的波動這個特別有點名到新北說這個新北市把大家的努力都打翻了就是因為新北市這個死亡人數有增加31人比較高一點那本席要這邊要特別跟交通部報告本席是希望說第一個"},{"start":246.628,"end":264.347,"text":"這個交通的整個狀況我希望是滾動式的檢討那所以我要特別跟您報告說其實新北市有非常認真在處理這個交通道路的一個問題所以它的二月份就已經把這個數字給它穩定下來了那主要的解決方式就是因為"},{"start":265.107,"end":291.999,"text":"夜間的這個事故比例比較高所以我們有把這個夜間新北市有把夜間的號誌來去做整體的一個檢討所以現在已經有把整體的狀況把它給調整下來了所以這邊也要跟交通部給交通部回去可以再去檢討看看新北市有沒有有沒有把這個整個成效做得比較好可是本席在這邊也要拜託內政部跟交通部就是說在這400億的經費裡面其實我有看到"},{"start":294.46,"end":318.042,"text":"一個我們現在的永續計畫的案件的執行情形我在看到這個數字的時候我覺得非常的震驚因為新北市既然你都覺得新北市的死亡的人數是最高的可是新北市我想請教這個次長或部長你知道新北市在這400億的補助金額裡面新北市現在拿到的整體金額是多少錢嗎"},{"start":319.482,"end":319.883,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":331.847,"end":353.274,"text":"新北市的部分是32件那個5億5千萬所以你說新北市的補助的金額才5億5千萬所以我要特別跟部長跟交通部次長報告的是400億的經費新北市拿到的補助的金額才內政部才補助5億那交通部補助多少錢交通部我們正在請那個"},{"start":361.336,"end":374.407,"text":"跟委員報告因為新北市大概提出來的是一案是多少錢?補助金額多少錢?四千萬四千萬所以這個金額微乎其微所以本席要這邊嚴重的"},{"start":375.922,"end":384.924,"text":"要拜託 幫我們新北市民來請益 我們的補助金額 佔整體400億的補助金額現在金額只有1.25%所以我希望中央在罵地方說你們的這個改善的狀況不好的時候也要"},{"start":394.947,"end":413.892,"text":"來看看補助的金額是不是我們地方政府送上去的改善的方案的金額中央希望說不要看這個顏色來補助新北市的補助金額我簡單講一下是吉沙市排名倒數第二全國排名超出10名排名第12名我們有400萬"},{"start":415.592,"end":429.964,"text":"多的這個民眾每天在繁忙的這個道路上行走結果我們補助的金額才這個百分之 到目前來講才百分之1.25喔 所以是不是請請次長跟部長是不是可以多多來協助來補助"},{"start":431.602,"end":456.901,"text":"報告委員我們現在去查一下就是只要由地方政府申報上來那個可以通過的比例大概是七成以上那新北市政府他們在申請上來的件數確實比較少所以未來我們可以這個內政部跟交通部還會再跟新北市政府繼續溝通那另外一個我想委員非常清楚委員所這個服務的區域裡面的人口非常的複雜"},{"start":457.862,"end":475.716,"text":"那通常你要通過一個案件的話,從里長、里幹事或者是很多社區居民很多不同的意見,所以會有時間差那我們這個人行道路的這個整個計畫到117年那如果說委員可以幫忙在溝通地方居民上面的話呢,我們很歡迎提上來謝謝部長,部長講得我非常認同,其實我在我的選區裡面我們有非常多的案子"},{"start":481.761,"end":499.543,"text":"那每次送進的時候當然大家會有不同的意見我們都會討論那我們也希望說當我們意見整合起來的時候那希望說不管是內政部跟交通部大家可以多多來幫忙委員我可不可以稍微更正一下因為同仁剛才給我一個資料其實新北市的部分已經有三案了大概8,130"},{"start":502.327,"end":515.16,"text":"35萬我們已經補助了剛才特別提到一案是應該是還在審議中的另外一個就是說而且很多的都是在這個因為新北市我們是負責都市計畫範圍外的所以相較的數量是有比較少"},{"start":518.143,"end":534.901,"text":"那但是呢整體性來看因為整個這個計畫的提出可能是要由地方政府他基於他的這種交通的狀況他來提出的啦所以我們一定會大力來支持以上好那最後一個問題我想要請教國土署的署長"},{"start":536.38,"end":558.481,"text":"好 署長好 那本席一直常常在請教就是有關於這個屋頂強制裝光電板的問題那我簡單來問一下 現在確定這個政策8月1號會強制所有的新建案這個只要超過 建築面積超過100平方公尺以上都會強制來裝這屋頂 光電板嗎對1000平方公尺以上 有確定嗎確定"},{"start":559.522,"end":588.024,"text":"那如果請教一下如果有一些案子如果沒有辦法裝的話如果他就沒辦法裝強制不裝的話會不會有罰則還是你們準備不發給他建造這個部分如果他一規定要裝的話我們還是要要求他裝如果沒有裝就不發建造但是還是要跟委員報告這裡面有一些所以未來會不會我們再待一下會不會有土方之亂或者是現在有關電板屋頂關電板之亂未來很多的案子都會卡關我們現在已經在每個區域都有開說明會"},{"start":589.706,"end":614.586,"text":"說明會的資料目前都沒有清楚到底我們北部的日照不足的問題如何解決我們公共安全的問題如何解決熱島問題以及管理問題那未來管委會的責任以及法律問題的釐清那現在都沒有一個完整的回應所以本席在這邊持續的關係是不是會後趕快把你們開說明會的資料提供給我因為北部的日照就是不足你們現在開了說明會"},{"start":616.147,"end":643.546,"text":"其實非常多的問題連說明會的資料都不願意提供給本席所以本席我在這邊還是要語重心量的講你現在你只是一直說8月1號要上路很多的配套完全現在是一片空白啊沒有 跟委員報告我們其實目前在說明會的當中有一些會診那之前簡單提出說明會產生的問題是什麼對 譬如說日照的問題對 那你有沒有解決的方案能源署這邊他有一個認定的標準所以這個部分要去做認定"},{"start":643.962,"end":669.603,"text":"所以你看你現在連認定標準都就是要跨部會協商都沒辦法講得出來有 我們已經在協商我們已經有在協商但是因為北中南這個部分可是8月1號就要上路了現在只剩下4個月了 署長我們會把這一些相關的所有的要配套的措施不是 為什麼我要跟你講這是經濟部的政策我們的綠能的政策是很好可是不應該要強制而且是全國適用這個要非常的小心好不好那會後拜託趕快書面報告趕快提供給我們 好不好好 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也是官派嘛 不不不 委員我這個要補充一下檢審委員 我們民選的檢審委員提出的名單 那個名單已經框住了所以說今天這個不是單純部長一個任命 而是在"},{"start":186.102,"end":196.268,"text":"而是在提名的因為我的時間有限,今天我們的召委特別嚴格您真是認為沒有人可以去控制檢審會嗎?檢審會有17個成員,都是檢察官組成這個OK,法務部長派4位那檢察總長是當然委員如果您當選,你還可以另外再派3位就是說法務部長加上檢察總長方的人大概就有8位那剩下的9位,雖然好像是全體的檢察官票選"},{"start":213.477,"end":232.151,"text":"那似乎可以制衡官派的人事意見事實上的實踐不是這麼一回事我以主任檢察官的遴選為例地檢署可以提出排名單法務部長還可以自己放入想要的人選一起交由檢審會依照法務部檢察官人士審議委員會的審議規則來審議這個部份部長都沒有放進去"},{"start":239.215,"end":255.083,"text":"檢審會會從名單提出一份當年的職缺1.5倍的主任檢察官的人選交給法務部長圈選整個程序當中檢審會的組成圈選的決定法務部長是一個非常重要非常關鍵其實他就是決定者 對嗎"},{"start":256.78,"end":281.458,"text":"可是決定的範圍也只在檢審委員提出來的名單裡面我知道我知道法務部長是誰派的行政院派行政院長派的行政院長是誰派的總統派的也就是說掌握行政權的執政黨透過行政權掌握檢察官的人士是足以控制檢察官成為政治辦案的工具喔如果你想要把"},{"start":282.559,"end":311.509,"text":"檢察官把政治力的幽魂從檢察體系驅除驅離的話就必須要一個完全獨立的檢察官人事審議制度好 請問這個被提名人你知道美國的州檢察官是怎麼出現的嗎是怎麼產生的嗎 您知道嗎選舉 選舉您知道嗎好 這是人民選舉的人民選舉的 任期兩年到八年不等好 我再請教被提名人您認為檢察體系當中是否存在揣摩上意的檢察官 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提升疏容還有園容分院的整體醫療量能那致力在榮民及我們宜蘭鄉親提供更優質還有完善的相關健康照護的服務那我想是不是先請我們陳院長說明一下未來我們要如何透過我們北榮的這個"},{"start":151.179,"end":176.702,"text":"好的這個醫療體系的支持能夠提升我們蘇龍還有圓融兩間分院整體的一個醫療量非常謝謝陳委員首先我要感謝你對個人的關心這個詐騙集團的事情實在非常可惡第一時間都報案又怕有民眾受害那至於說圓山蘇澳呢台北榮總的資源是責無旁貸就重症的部分"},{"start":177.623,"end":202.859,"text":"那我們現在支援14個科部每個月超過25個醫師去那這個是基本的另外一個綠色通道更重要如果有重症需要北龍處理我們直接接到電話接到通知直接轉送回來絕對不會有沒有床的事情這個守護依然相親是非常重要至於高齡長照我們現在的護理師家原數號有300多床"},{"start":204.02,"end":224.952,"text":"圓山一百多床,一百五十幾床,那這個各地市市的據點,高齡長照的據點,我們很多的村裡都有現在一個表達我們最大的善意,我們最近奉我們主委的同意我們要把高齡醫學中心即將卸任的部主任,他是各中的高手"},{"start":226.192,"end":247.4,"text":"私製長照的高手社區醫療的高手他要到宜蘭服務那這個會注入一個非常大的力量我希望他變成一個典範另外一個我們的陽明交大布設醫院他的院長也是台北榮總指派過去那我們希望成成一個三角陽大復一"},{"start":248.362,"end":254.369,"text":"另外我們的蘇澳園山一起合作努力,來照顧我們的宜蘭鄉親謝謝委員確實是有啦,我們北榮跟我們的蘇榮還有園榮整個連結在一起的時候"},{"start":264.161,"end":278.098,"text":"能夠提供給我們在地醫療的服務面向非常的廣那也謝謝我們北榮包括我們所有的同仁一起努力也都有協助我們在地的需求來達到醫療的服務"},{"start":280.1,"end":299.967,"text":"那我想延續這個醫療量能還有長照需求的這個部分,我們也必須務實來面對一個問題就是人力是否能夠這個跟上服務擴充的一個腳步那無論在這個醫療還是長照還有失智失能的這個服務,都來自於第一線專業的護理還有長照人員"},{"start":302.108,"end":312.183,"text":"那如果我們專業的這種人力缺口過大再完善的這種政策還有設備恐怕也都難以真正的來落實那這是全國性的問題"},{"start":314.095,"end":339.057,"text":"但是在特別在宜蘭地區受限於地理因素還有人口結構的影響人力的招募留任本來就相對的困難近年來隨著需求的增加在第一線人員的工作負擔也持續加重我們要如何來穩定我們的人力減輕壓力並且能夠吸引更多年輕世代來願意投入已經是當前非常迫切的一個問題"},{"start":339.818,"end":365.575,"text":"那業報當中也指出我們榮榮開始透過引進外籍造福源來補充人力缺口但相關的制度與配套措施是否已經完善我想在此我請教我們兩分院目前在造物及這個長照人力上是否穩定那目前這個殊榮還有元榮引進外籍造物源的情況為何那是否能夠確保造物的品質"},{"start":366.995,"end":383.755,"text":"我跟您报告一下两个分院现在都有护理之家他们站场率我觉得还蛮高的站场率说跟原来分别是84跟88那长照人力非常的稳定而且他们引进了24名越南籍的外籍的照护人那状况都非常好"},{"start":384.395,"end":410.806,"text":"然後有關於剛剛委員關心的對外的這個護理師的招募蘇澳分院他跟聖母一副專科學校簽訂了五年的專科學校畢業生的一個展示計畫就是每年提供五個護理科的學生的獎學金然後可以到醫院來服務然後與台北榮總辦理的這些鏈接的招募有更新健康專科學校還有國立台北護專這些都有也有同學有意願願意去這兩個偏鄉醫院來服務"},{"start":413.007,"end":426.488,"text":"所以這個可以跟委員做報告那兩個分院在北農指導之下積極提升薪資跟福利提供在校護理系學生獎學金積極招募跟留任人才目前三半戶並比也都沒問題沒問題囉"},{"start":428.311,"end":446.296,"text":"好 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12月我們會做這個功能測試跟教育訓練OK"},{"start":295.635,"end":310.142,"text":"好那這個如果是進度超前當然是好事啦那還是要注意一下就是上次我特別提到的資安問題那這個應該是講過很多次了我就不多說但是倒回來講就是謝謝就是在這一個我們現在看到我們這一次的業報裡面有提到就是我們榮業這個長照機構那它有導入這個智慧床墊啊什麼這個沒問題那它這個"},{"start":316.889,"end":342.031,"text":"那個有運用這個人臉辨識這個系統改善憂鬱妄想等身心行為的症狀我想這是新的趨勢啦這個沒有什麼問題剛剛也有提到這個在智慧醫院的排行這個在國際上我們也是赫赫有名那但是因為只要是有人臉辨識都一定會有個人隱私安全的問題所以這一個是不是長者或者說家屬有沒有同意使用那如果有的話就算今天有這個"},{"start":344.093,"end":350.323,"text":"同意這一些資料他以後要怎麼去銷毀等等之類這個機制目前如何想確認一下這個資安的部分"},{"start":351.056,"end":380.237,"text":"委員它主要是應用在各種種跟分院的日照中心應用在這個單位那它的這個人臉辨識系統它是內網操作內網運作那如果對外媒鏈接的話就要採去識別化的一個處理那相關的這些剛剛委員所關心的軟硬體的設備都按照治安法的規定來辦理防火牆專點防護還有防毒軟體這些防護的一些作為都按照相關的治安法的規定來確保隱私及資訊安全"},{"start":380.997,"end":394.157,"text":"後續我覺得保障安全這個部分這樣聽起來比較沒有什麼問題但前階段是否有這個經過同意啊等等之類的這個也要確保那因為時間的因素我大概問到這裡是是 這我們會管制好 謝謝主委 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部長好首先我要先感謝運動部對於街舞運動的支持去年我們的總統盃有舉辦街舞比賽我們也希望今年可以持續來舉辦另外因為我之前跟運動部多次關心的就是我們社區俱樂部對於運動"},{"start":34.998,"end":43.662,"text":"從基層扎根的推動那這個我們也看到計畫已經開始在執行我們希望可以持續的落實那部長有機會的話也多到基層來看一看我們社區運動推廣的狀況那麼我想國人都非常關心而且相當感到雀躍以及恭喜的是我們台灣之光林玉婷相隔19個月終於重返國際賽場並且在亞錦賽拿下了銅牌"},{"start":63.012,"end":67.273,"text":"那麼我想19個月對一個選手來講應該是一段滿煎熬的過程不管是身體的或是心理的那麼從這個巴黎奧運到現在我覺得比較難過的是有時候在網路上面還是會看到有一些言論對於林玉婷選手有一些很惡意的發言特別是針對性別的這個言論所以呢我想要請部長再一次的來向國人釐清這一次"},{"start":92.057,"end":98.63,"text":"林玉婷之所以可以重返國際賽事那是因為我們收到了來自世界拳擊協會關於性別檢測很明確的結果你們請部長來說明"},{"start":103.045,"end":128.125,"text":"跟委員您報告那這次確實是由WB發函回來給我們的這個協會確認林玉婷選手的參賽那這邊很感謝委員對於林玉婷選手的重視對那目前我們確實林玉婷選手確實可以參賽那之前我們這個也有啟動專案小組讓玉婷可以有這個在性別檢測這邊可以明確的去檢測然後發函給這個WB這邊"},{"start":130.529,"end":155.488,"text":"所以世界拳擊運協會WB它的檢測項目跟未來這個亞奧運的檢測項目是不是一樣的?跟委員您報告,那這部分的話我們在專業小組如果後續如果有任何需要的部分我們都會配合因為其實最近國際賽事對於性別檢測這個地方的議題也其實蠻高漲的那我們希望說未來如果有任何選手需要我們都會讓這個小組去提供選手需要"},{"start":155.948,"end":175.161,"text":"好 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這個經費公開透明根本是依法最低的要求運動部本來就要去監督的部長我不知道你知不知道這個足協啊到現在喔"},{"start":286.448,"end":298.704,"text":"還有積欠我們球員職員防護員積欠款項積欠什麼費用交通費薪資集訓費從去年10月到現在還有錢到現在沒有給球員職員運動部有沒有了解"},{"start":302.564,"end":327.805,"text":"跟委員報告是不是請這個可以請說明跟委員報告那個委員提到的應該就是去年八零亞青運的賽前集訓那一筆集訓費用我們去年就已經撥給足協了那現在對那足協給球員了沒還沒到我們到現在還沒給對我們會趕快你們什麼時候知道的昨天我們昨天才知道是好足協基線球員款項不是第一次了部長"},{"start":329.386,"end":347.292,"text":"2025年學童被逐協積欠裁判工作人員費用多少錢130萬2022年逐協也曾經積欠男主當時去參加泰國友誼賽出場費跟獎金什麼時候還利用2022欠的款項2024年才還所以球員發出這麼卑微的請求"},{"start":351.186,"end":360.019,"text":"運動部可不可以來督導足協可不可以不要欠球員錢啊然後呢我要請問一下你們有沒有去了解足協這個錢這個款項經費是跟運動部申請的國訓專案經費嗎這款項是什麼經費"},{"start":366.943,"end":376.665,"text":"你們要去了解如果部長這個事情可能非常嚴重如果這個錢是足協用球員的訓練計畫來跟你們申請經費因為我們運動部要給補助不是隨便給錢嘛對不對計畫要來而且是每一個項目都要寫明給選手的訓練費交通費而且什麼交通工具都要寫清楚的對不對有計畫才有補助嘛如果他是用計畫項目來跟你申請補助結果你先給了協會給了足協"},{"start":395.53,"end":398.316,"text":"結果主協跟你說我這個是選手訓練經費結果錢沒有給選手錢有沒有被挪用"},{"start":404.241,"end":422.376,"text":"他有沒有來跟你核銷他用什麼項目跟你核銷錢用去哪裡了這個你們都要成立專案小組通通調查清楚這當中很有可能還有法律問題喔這非常嚴重所以我要拜託部長這個幾個問題第一個就是說球員希望對教練團的檢討可不可以兩週內來玩4月底以前完成這個運動部可不可以來督導一些"},{"start":429.589,"end":444.809,"text":"跟委員您報告,那其實我們的這部分我們也一直有跟選手來做到聯繫,那其實後續我也會親自跟女足的這個選手來進行開會,然後了解他們真實的訴求,然後我們會積極一直在督導這個足協趕快繳交這一個報告回來。"},{"start":447.708,"end":451.111,"text":"這個報告當中部長請你們一定要嚴查清楚尤其是關於經費因為我想積欠選手、防護員、職員這個經費已經不是第一次了好不好我們運動部我們有國體法我們有評鑑我們有各種的這個監督的政策工具拜託你們因為你們是選手最重要的後盾"},{"start":470.046,"end":486.81,"text":"那麼另外我也很關心的跟你們關係很多次是我們攔血啊攔球協會因為這個謝典玲理事長她因為過去這個狀況已經大家都反映了很多次了常常不出席會員大會那麼甚至過去攔血還出現秘書長帶開違規開會的狀況會員大會多次留會導致攔血的年度工作計畫無法核定也沒有依法完成程序"},{"start":496.733,"end":523.089,"text":"那麼這個今年1月的時候就是我們黃市長也就在這個地方接受備詢他當時說運動部當然不能接受而且不排除去懲處這個李市長那麼我最近在攔協李監事會的會議記錄其實我們都會去看的又看到一份臨時提案這個我要請教部長意見這個臨時提案內容是說呢這李監事們表達說我們理解李市長公務繁忙但希望李市長盡量撥控參與協會活動"},{"start":525.671,"end":535.292,"text":"來展現對協會重視 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徐貝提名人您好我想這個我們自己我們你我都是從基層檢察官出來的所以我們很清楚一個檢察首長我們要的其實是一個敢守誠意正義敢扛政治責任還有替基層扛住整個制度底線的這個檢察首長那我先請教一個問題啦就今年的3月26號總統太院長他說任何質疑任何質疑執政黨可以操控司法人沒有資格成為執政黨"},{"start":45.904,"end":62.313,"text":"但是賴總統去年他在民進黨中常會他又說大家都可以在個案審理中檢視司法審理的規範那一個說人民可以檢視 一個又說沒有資格我想請教您 人民到底可不可以質疑司法有沒有受到政治影響我想委員你也當過檢察官就直接回答 人民可不可以質疑"},{"start":73.581,"end":98.088,"text":"人民要相信司法我們的所有的檢察官或者是法官我們依法來做偵查審判我們心裡有一把刺啊人民可不可以質疑你還是沒有回答過人民要做怎樣的想法我沒有辦法去約束我也沒辦法被評斷說他是對還是錯但是我想思想是自由的所以他要怎麼想我們不能用任何規範去限制他好那不然這樣好了那我換個問題問啦"},{"start":99.668,"end":122.493,"text":"您認為行政院院長他說質疑任何質疑執政黨可以操控司法人都沒有資格成為執政黨請問您認同這句話嗎這句話應該有它深層的一點含義就是說如果一個執政黨是認為司法是不公的那他就不能成為執政黨我想這樣的解讀應該是比較精確的不是欸不是欸應該是因為"},{"start":125.133,"end":152.79,"text":"民進黨在野的時候也經常質疑司法那難道他就不適合成為執政黨嗎我認為這是一個因為您剛剛的報告其實一直有講到司法獨立不受政治影響嘛您的書面報告也有但在這第一個問題裡面你就沒有給我答案了那我怎麼能夠相信說你將來在擔任檢察總長的時候你有那個勇氣感跟現在執政黨對抗不是 這不是對抗這是堅持"},{"start":154.311,"end":165.038,"text":"對抗跟堅持是不一樣的這不是文字遊戲啊沒有文字遊戲對抗跟堅持今天如果執政黨他惡搞那他要用政治力介入司法的時候你有沒有勇氣跟他對抗嘛"},{"start":165.928,"end":186.029,"text":"身為一個檢察官就好 不要到總長任何一個非法的干涉 我們一定要有自己就有勇敢的去捍衛不是這樣繞來繞去我覺得還是沒有高拖你的政務官的包袱啦因為我知道您是政事嘛 那也做過這個國安局的副局長嘛"},{"start":186.61,"end":214.41,"text":"那當然這就是外界給您的質疑啦那我今天第一個問題其實很簡單就是說當院長說出這個我們認為不妥的話為什麼司法不能夠質疑那只要有人質疑的話那就不適合擔任執政黨那這個話其實不對啊因為民進黨在野的時候常在質疑甚至他的黨綱裡面的行動綱領也有要求要司法獨立那不是也一種質疑嗎那難道就不適合嗎我剛才特別強調就是說思想是沒有辦法限制的"},{"start":214.87,"end":240.206,"text":"我想這個要質疑沒有人有辦法限制好那你贊不贊成你贊不贊成卓榮泰院長的這句話您贊不贊成委員單單的一句話叫我是贊不贊成我只能說不能說司法不公好那我知道我們不可以質疑司法不公嘛好不好那您這樣講我也無話可說我只能跟你講一件事啦現在司法對人民對司法信任度"},{"start":242.432,"end":262.984,"text":"那是我們大家都要檢討的事情如果都認為說司法我們檢察官做你人民不可以質疑或執政在野黨不可以質疑那就不對啦應該是說 任何東西都可以被質疑吧應該是說 增審的一些作為我們可以來檢討他妥不妥適但是整體來講我想司法人員委員你也當過司法人員我們心中的那一把指"},{"start":263.504,"end":276.86,"text":"是需要被肯定我還是講的是人民對不然這樣好了因為時間的關係我直接給你跳到一個問題來我問一下這次北檢清潔監察院的那個案子當然我先講一個北檢清潔監察院的那個用公務車那個案子我覺得裡面問題非常的多"},{"start":284.448,"end":301.054,"text":"那一段時間曾經有個清潔隊員他曾經送一個老婦人一個幾十塊的電鍋然後他被起訴是貪污罪條例第六條那五年以上的重罪那我今天的問題是在於說北檢的檢察官 清潔的理由是說這個油錢他事後有付了"},{"start":301.514,"end":320.657,"text":"那請問一下那車輛的消耗或者是司機的有兼常用雇用這個都不用管嗎那我去搭計程車坐了10公里可不可以說我就付你一公升油錢就好那其他費用我都不出好那這個只是我就事實面的論述但是我也要請教你一個問題啦我們這個是符合牽結的理由嗎"},{"start":321.698,"end":342.138,"text":"我們簽結有簽結的要件耶 這可以直接簽結嗎我們那個高檢署還有各地檢署辦理他這案件注意事項第三點裡面 得報請簽結的理由只有這些啊 這六點啊那請問一下 監察院那個案子人事實地物都是明確而且濫用公務車這個事實也明確 憑什麼簽結"},{"start":345.865,"end":374.559,"text":"我以前接過很多案子亂告,我以前辦樹炭也接過很多亂告但那個一眼就知道這胡扯嘛什麼什麼我接過某某人把他家的電梯裡面塗滿什麼排泄物然後讓他沒辦法搭電梯下去這個東西一看就知道有問題但是這一次的監察院的這個簽結我覺得莫名其妙來請問一下被提名的你有什麼看法完全不符合定型注意事項裡面的各項規定而且人事實地物都是明確的"},{"start":376.187,"end":398.637,"text":"請問你有什麼看法這個案子的話應該是沒有人告訴告發應該是明確定的不是我問東寧又答西冷我說他不符合陰性注意事項的簽結規定因為人事實地物每一個都清楚這件事情給我一個感觸就是說原來只要大官犯案"},{"start":399.477,"end":422.729,"text":"找盡理由幫他牽結小小的清潔隊員的一個小事三十幾塊的東西用貪污之類條例來處理如果事實面我們不論述我們尊重檢察官的認定的話但至少程序面他不符合牽結的規定啊牽結要點第三點的六款請問他符合哪一款好 請問您對這個有什麼看法"},{"start":425.91,"end":452.586,"text":"我們兩個當過檢察官都知道說其實他有一個地方是比較可以有一點權宜有時候我們會選擇用簽結有時候我們會做一個不起訴處分書我個人認為如果能夠有一個不起訴處分書會比較好這對於被調查的人也給他一個確定的結果我個人感覺這樣是比較好的所以至少在本案的時候"},{"start":453.689,"end":469.995,"text":"是不是其實您也是比較支持說甲官應該用不起訴處分的方式來處理可以檢討這個可能性因為是這樣子對被調查的人也比較公平那我這邊也跟那個被庭名人報告這件事情我個人完全不認同"},{"start":471.115,"end":498.794,"text":"北檢的這個論述這個用牽結的方式北檢怎麼認定這是事實的認定我們基本上都予以尊重你說他有付油錢其他的耗損他都不當一回事這個檢察官這麼認定這麼奇怪我們就算了這是事實面我尊重他但是程序面他就不符合印行注意事項的牽結規定而且在人事實地物都明確的情況下還敢用牽結這種我以前我當蘇貪檢察官當11年我不敢這麼做"},{"start":501.136,"end":501.156,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168358","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168358","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7b9e2c99e771bcdd80a49e36d97d29c5f8ce3249aa741ed416b9ecd0214d1f5425ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"10:10:53 - 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對吧這個是你們的數據然後佔外籍被保險人總給付的75%"},{"start":108.595,"end":123.555,"text":"那本國的勞工同一比例只有49%所以部長75%也就是四分之三的外籍給付都集中在這一項這代表說這個制度其實已經有出現給付結構明顯偏移的狀況"},{"start":124.916,"end":136.241,"text":"那在這個勞保基金每年要撥補一千多億的前提之下其實現在這樣子的制度產生了一個問題叫做在台繳費全球提領的設計這就已經觸及到分配正義的核心問題所以我要再問那請問他提出這些申請的時候你們外館的驗證呢是程序審查還是實質審查"},{"start":149.009,"end":154.908,"text":"這個勞保局有沒有能力確認這一切死亡證明的內容完全屬實請問有沒有辦法"},{"start":156.345,"end":177.875,"text":"跟文說明其實因為其實現在這個因為不管是本國人或外國人都必須要投保勞保對那因為投保勞保所以他會有他的一些權權權利跟義務上面的狀況所以的確因為現在除了家事移工以外"},{"start":178.895,"end":202.932,"text":"其他的產業移工都是必須要投保勞保所以投保勞保裡面其中一個給付的項目就是家屬死亡的給付項目這並不是所以我想要問我剛剛就問了我的問題部長沒有回答我我說你們是程序審查還是實質審查這個部分勞保局有沒有完全有能力可以確認跨國的這些死亡證明內容完全屬實呢有沒有辦法因為這個後面的問題我要一一跟你討論跟人說明"},{"start":204.033,"end":231.676,"text":"就我知道勞保局在這方面的審查他是需要靠我們駐外單位來去驗證他相關的死亡證明的對所以其實不容易審查事實上是這樣子所以接下來就會討論到你剛剛說到的這個基於我們剛剛討論基於不管是普世價值或關懷人權我相信制度讓他們可以領我也不反對但是你怎麼消弭相對的剝奪感以及觸及這個分配正義的問題所以剛剛你有提到產業產業類的移工是強制勞保"},{"start":232.977,"end":256.173,"text":"那你剛剛說家事類是不強制所以結果就發生了一件事移工從弱勢家庭跑去工廠那工廠有勞保而且他還可以領家屬死亡給付薪水又相對高所以這就是現在普遍上講說造成喜功的一個原因之一那弱勢家庭本身就有經濟壓力而且還要面對移工被搶走政府雖然免了兩千元的安定費但勞保費的問題是完全沒有解決到所以剛剛你討論到"},{"start":260.196,"end":275.272,"text":"講到這個問題也導致這個制度的設計也有可能讓這個資源豐厚的企業從弱勢家庭中搶人其實之前你們也一直很擔心類似的事情所以是不是應該要研議讓勞保給付有不同的選項讓這個負擔沉重的家庭有喘息空間"},{"start":276.947,"end":296.718,"text":"跟委員說明如果按照委員剛才講的邏輯裡面就是兩個做法一個做法是如果按照委員剛才說的邏輯因為家事移工他這個因為企業的移工他有勞保所以他條件比較好所以雇儲網那種地方所以委員是贊成也贊成家事移工要保勞保嗎"},{"start":297.699,"end":317.206,"text":"我是要一步一步跟你討論這個制度本身出現的問題所以我的意思是說我剛剛講說因為他保了勞保所以導致他什麼他的家屬如果他的家屬不在台灣也沒有在台灣工作他在他的國家死亡了這個在台灣工作的勞工他可以領到家屬給付所以今天的問題就是他因為擁有了這個優越的比較優越的條件"},{"start":318.246,"end":336.375,"text":"所以你在這個制度上設計就導致他可能會這樣子偏移所以我剛剛也第一題就講了75%他在整個支付裡面他佔的75%是來自於這個家屬給付所以部長我覺得你可能有點搞不清楚我現在到底要表達的議題是什麼委員的資訊不是很精準我請我們局長來說明"},{"start":337.54,"end":362.178,"text":"跟委員做報告就是在勞保是一個綜合保險所以他包含剛才委員提到的死亡給付裡面有家屬死亡給付也有本人死亡給付那其實他還有絕大部分的給付是生育傷病老年那剛才提到的我就是要跟你討論家屬這個死亡給付的部分那跟委員報告剛才75%可能在那篇報導裡面的相關數字裡面他沒有把老年給付生育指數放進去所以我現在要跟你進一步討論跟你說好"},{"start":363.739,"end":386.105,"text":"那我就問你,國保跟勞保,同為社保,你剛剛講社保,其實他權益也是田茶地園。那你剛剛講到的這些,可能外籍移工他來到台灣,他工作了,我們覺得他對台灣貢獻,我們應該對於他要有相關的保險,這個沒有問題。但是,這個簡單的問題就是,國民年金有300多萬人被保險人,家庭主婦代業者他們父母配偶死亡的時候,請問我們國保有給他們相關的給付嗎?"},{"start":389.608,"end":411.121,"text":"這些被保險人家屬他死亡的時候有沒有跟各位說明第一個這邊沒有可是我們現在比較的標準其實是應該同時都在勞保裡面去比較所以這是有一個我剛剛講到這個東西就是有分配這一個問題因為勞保是他也要付勞保的勞保去比較對不對好我們就下一步來看你剛有說公平的問題嘛所以我要跟你說其實這不是這是台灣現在設計這個制度上真的出現的問題"},{"start":412.142,"end":440.401,"text":"像你如果說美國好了美國他的social security對於他的外國人他其實有除了他有credit的門檻的限制之外他還要加五年的居住要求但是台灣呢其實一公若你一入境加保了他隔天他的家屬在他的國家死亡了他就可以申請三個月的補助那他連一天的等待期都沒有所以我要講的事情是這個問題現在的制度設計是有問題的所以我不是說要歧視誰是最起碼是不是應該要給一個設定一個"},{"start":442.222,"end":468.542,"text":"相關的門檻和投保最低的期間這是美國的設計那再來所以我希望你們可以去研議這個部分的可行性因為你說要統一可是其實我等一下再跟你講統一的問題呢你去看其他的國家國際的比較其實事實上全世界全世界在這樣子的制度裡面我想要跟你說我想要問你印尼的BPJS有沒有被保險人家屬死亡的補助"},{"start":469.761,"end":482.493,"text":"有沒有跟文說明這部分當然我們可以去查證相關資料但我想跟文說明我想跟你說明的是說讓我先先先說明該講的部分第一個其實在我們的資料裡面這個"},{"start":489.111,"end":514.083,"text":"外國的被保險人他其實個人負擔的勞保的保費一年在114年的話是57.8億我想要跟你說你想要表達的是 我不知道你想要表達什麼你想要表達的是說他其實有付出所以他有拿到這個但是我要跟你講的是你這樣子的給付我都相信你可以把這個給付可以放在真正被保險的勞工身上"},{"start":514.463,"end":529.275,"text":"而不是放在這個你可能完全沒有辦法查核而且呢也其他國家也沒有這樣子制度的給付上面我要跟你表達如果委員這樣說的意思的話就變成說是要把外籍的移工從我們的社會保險制度裡面把他給排除嗎你這個部分你應該要參考其他國際的案例我現在就要講給你聽啊所以我的意思是說委員主張"},{"start":534.019,"end":562.564,"text":"在我們的產業移工裡面我覺得你應該回去研議一下因為印尼沒有菲律賓沒有我們都有跟他如果說要對等接軌國際的話我剛剛講的這些都是國際的案例第一個美國也沒有這樣子的這麼開放的規定第二個你跟印尼印尼也沒有菲律賓沒有越南沒有新加坡沒有德國也沒有所以我剛剛跟你講這個你應該要回去研議一下所以你覺得我們的社會保險制度裡面勞保制度裡面要不要把外籍的移工直接給排除掉"},{"start":562.984,"end":569.052,"text":"我沒有說要直接排除喔我說你應該嚴義讓他讓他真正的這個幾父放到給這個勞工身上所以我現在要講給你聽喔我查了主要的幾個這個我們的來源國的社保制度我剛剛講這幾個都沒有都沒有一個所謂的勞工本人死亡然後幾父家屬"},{"start":579.545,"end":602.344,"text":"沒有 這個通常是這樣子勞工本人死亡 給付家屬沒有問題但是沒有任何一個國家是勞工的家屬死亡你給付勞工的設計這個移工的部分所以新加坡 我跟你講新加坡2003年的時候他也把這個移工排出他的CPF之外他2024年的時候關閉所有非公民帳戶但是 但是我要強調的我們尊重 而且我們也感謝他對於台灣的這個貢獻"},{"start":603.985,"end":626.118,"text":"所以他是用了WICA保障這個工商那我跟你講歐盟呢他的EESSI的系統他有32國的電子查核但是對於第三國的勞工還是有限制所以部長我跟你講我現在不是跟你吵架我跟你說這個制度現在是有問題而且值得檢討全世界只有台灣你在沒有所謂的社安協定沒有電子查核系統的情況之下"},{"start":626.738,"end":653.299,"text":"你單方面的讓外籍移工跨境請領家屬的死亡給付我就要問你我剛才說要對等嘛那請問國與國的互惠在哪裡如果我們今天我們的這個台灣的國民他在譬如說他在印尼他在新加坡或者他在其他國家他工作了那他的家屬在台灣死亡了請問那些國家有沒有給我這樣的給我們這樣的給付呢我要講的是這個公文說明休文可以讓我寫第一個你剛才講"},{"start":655.18,"end":678.155,"text":"應該講的是因為我們的勞保制度裡面就是有家屬的死亡給付因為外國人也加入在這個勞保制度裡面他們也要繳保費所以我們也要有負擔所以部長請你好好看一下我今天叫你回去研議請你們去研究如果你都還沒研議和研究的情況之下不要用這種方式來溝通不是我剛剛講的你沒有讓我說完讓我說完可以嗎可以你說第一個"},{"start":679.788,"end":691.768,"text":"除非今天要設計的是在因為你剛才講到的外國的保險的制度社會保險制度要去確認你剛才說外國的勞工並沒有家屬給付可是他是不是本國也沒有"},{"start":692.785,"end":720.123,"text":"所以它其實是你同時在這個保險制度裡面因為本國人跟外國人都加入進去所以它原本是本國人也沒有加數死亡給付部長我就給你看新加坡的案例新加坡它的CPF從1987年逐步限縮外籍移工2003年完全排除而且2024年也關閉所有非公民帳戶所以你剛剛講的問題我現在已經回答你了但是它同時有用WICA來保障工商"},{"start":720.963,"end":743.566,"text":"讓雇主去買保險那他工商的死亡最高賠償也是很高的所以邏輯很清楚邏輯很清楚喔部長工商保障由雇主負責社會福利留給本國國民然後精準資源要精準使用保障真正該被保障的而不是現在整個結構偏移你把很多的這個移工他可能申請的補助裡面很大量的是他的家屬在"},{"start":744.706,"end":770.98,"text":"該國過世的時候申請了給付我們家族典容給付不是社會福利它是社會保險但是你現在的這個社保它不是社會福利它是因為它有繳保費所以我要講啦你的社保就應該是社保嘛你要讓它的社會福利真正用在精準使用的地方所以你的社會福利應該真正是要留給國內的公民那這個社會福利你剛剛所謂的社保這樣子的福利它這樣子的制度已經變得有點像福利的一種了我們社會保險跟社會福利是不一樣的當然是不一樣"},{"start":771.42,"end":792.72,"text":"社會保險跟社會福利不一樣可是你這條的規定在這裡看起來就是已經不夠精準了是社會保險我要跟你講邏輯很清楚工商保障這個人真正這個勞工真正在台灣工作的他有任何的受傷他有任何的不確定性我們都支持給他更好的保障好 但是如果他的家屬是你講的新加坡的CPF是不是社會保險"},{"start":793.24,"end":807.251,"text":"所以我跟你講沒有它就是社會保險的一種沒有錯啊所以我要跟你講的我要跟你講的就是明明就已經有這麼多國家案例然後你還是要硬扯你都不好好的去研究你就回去跟我說你好好的研究一下好不好我們研究新加坡的CPF並不是社會保險它是社會保險"},{"start":809.332,"end":824.164,"text":"是不是還有美國的社會保障所以我的意思是說今天我們今天已經跟你講了很多國家沒有這樣子的還是要討論社會福利所以我跟你說這個制度的福利的確如果是社會保障部長他如果是他如果這是有繳交保費的話我們在討論的是他就有繳交保費裡面的權利義務"},{"start":827.427,"end":853.319,"text":"來不及講 我們在討論的事情是那你就回答我 你就回答我假設我們的勞工我們到了其他國家我們也去做了這個所謂的相關的投保或是相關的這個工作那結果我們的臺灣勞工的家屬他在臺灣死亡了那個國家會不會支付給他這個所謂的資料但是那個國家他可能他原本說有 有沒有家屬死亡給付啊來 部長你回答有或沒有就好不是 委員所以我們要跟你講的是委員你要去檢討這個你沒有把概念弄對當然概念是這樣"},{"start":856.34,"end":879.514,"text":"我概念我跟你講的就是這樣這個制度本身它已經有一個設計的問題存在你應該是可以去檢討說它這個部分應該怎麼樣把它獨立出來而且究竟公不公平或者或者你應該把這件事情去討論你跟另外一個國家在簽訂這些關係的時候說這個是不是我們應該要互相互相對等的情況之下來做這件事情部長我要跟你講的就是這樣"},{"start":880.655,"end":901.929,"text":"好不好 我已經提了這麼多國家的案子 你可以回去好好的研議一下 你可以請你們的同仁我們會回去研議 那我們回去研議的時候 把剛剛講到的各種制度 它是屬於社會福利 還是屬於社會保險所以 這部分我們都要去確認清楚 我們三個很明確的第一個 三十天內請你們給我們外籍家屬死亡給付推薦的統計報告"},{"start":903.61,"end":931.43,"text":"好然後另外一個是三個月內你們所謂勞保跨境給付法規的影響評估就像我剛提的我剛是告訴你其他國家都沒有這樣子的狀況那我們呢我們是不是有需要調整的地方而且把這個資源精準使用保障該被保障的人這是第二個要求第三個你們在半年內應該也可以啟動所謂勞動力輸出國你們這個社安資訊交換的談判因為我剛說了你剛自己也回答不太出來你可能需要社外單位去確認這一些"},{"start":933.031,"end":949.548,"text":"這些這個死亡的證明是不是真的是精準的這都是現在制度出現的問題本席提供給你一個參考的政策方向的意見好不好跟我們說明第一個我們可以來確認比方說如果勞工在外國他的家屬死亡的話相關的證件的驗證"},{"start":950.689,"end":960.054,"text":"是不是能夠做到更精準所以我就三件事在這裡給你我們能夠做到更精準這部分我們可以來研議這件事情你剛剛已經講了我只是補充說你讓我說完嗎第一個我說對於這些相關的證明文件"},{"start":969.238,"end":984.132,"text":"的驗證是否夠精準這事情我們可以跟駐外單位來去研議怎麼樣這事情能夠更精準不要有好像大家覺得資訊上面無法確認的狀況我覺得這部分我們可以來研議第二個維根跟委員說對各國不同的社會保險制度"},{"start":985.733,"end":1005.26,"text":"不同社會保險制度下面那這些相關的給付那我們也可以來研議各種情形的狀況我們也可以把這個資料再整理給委員那在這個資料的前提下面第一個我們也需要認清楚每個制度它到底是屬於社會福利還是屬於社會保險因為如果是社會保險的話它的權利是來自於它有繳保費"},{"start":1007.679,"end":1022.891,"text":"如果要把一個權利那第一個可能會涉及到修法第二個是他的權利是來自他的繳保費所以這是社會保險但如果社會福利就不用所以我們要先弄清楚每一個在我們剛剛所提到的制度是社會福利還是社會保險這是不同的狀況這個社會保險走到現在"},{"start":1025.393,"end":1053.831,"text":"啊我剛剛也點出很多問題你自己也承認說好你要回去檢討一下這個驗證到底精不精準然後其他國家的比較是這部分我們可以檢討所以我要跟你講就是說我剛剛把所有的狀況點出來我並不是為了跟你吵架我要跟你講這個是現在不是跟你吵架我只是對我應該做的說明對我現在這些事情都是現在正在發生的事所以請你們回去研議我們的要求三件事就是這三件事齁請你答應回去研議第一個三十天內給我們給我本辦公室外籍家屬死亡的幾副推薦統計報告"},{"start":1055.032,"end":1077.124,"text":"第二個三個月內你們這個勞保跨境給付的法規影響評估我們剛剛講到的那些問題第三個就是半年內你跟這個啟動勞動力輸出國社安資訊交換的談判這個社安資訊就是我剛剛說的你的那些你說是不是找諸位單位把它的資料驗證更精準所以我的要求很清楚那也跟我剛剛的質詢內容相呼應謝謝部長好 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國人情報也都在看還是被提名的人只在乎檢查總長的職位能不能通過"},{"start":157.455,"end":181.334,"text":"再來要請教被提名人台灣民眾黨黨團去年通過法院組織法落實了法庭透明但目前司法院卻背離立法原意將原本立法者要求的公開播送延遲司法院違背國會立法權限縮母法讓陽光無法照進法庭現在的法律已經變成有檢察官解釋了嗎還是司法院"},{"start":182.441,"end":208.522,"text":"有權可以扭曲立法者的原意這樣還需要立法院嗎還需要正當的立法程序嗎被提名的都不回答就對了請記得要尊重民意啊台灣民眾黨的不分區立委有30多萬的369萬的民意基礎"},{"start":216.744,"end":240.857,"text":"立法院不是行政院的立法局目前外界眾多的質疑心聲浪都在批評現在有些不肖檢察官讓偵查不公開變成偵查大公開檢察官的起訴書淪為八卦笑料近幾年從宜蘭縣長林芝妙案立法委員高金樹美案到"},{"start":241.617,"end":259.188,"text":"台灣民眾黨創黨主席的柯文哲案雖然個案背景不同但都看到了偵查內容不斷外流檢方配合特定媒體引導輿論辦案輿論審判當檢查不公開變成選擇性公開檢查不公開成了媒體最公開"},{"start":264.164,"end":291.196,"text":"甚至連羈押都敢拿來當工具押人逼供個別檢察官公然討好上意墮落至此請問被提名人你若是檢察總長你要如何防止檢察官濫權偵查所以目前新的被提名人完全無法回答本席的這些最基本的審查問題"},{"start":293.837,"end":321.587,"text":"最後被提名人回答民眾黨台灣民眾黨的問卷中有提到針對不適任的檢察官要有相關的淘汰機制不適任檢察官讓司法體系已經成為最不被人民信任的機關但過去的一年多經過懲戒法院解除職位的才四位這樣做得到所謂的發揮淘汰功能嗎被提名人你上任之後"},{"start":323.632,"end":350.274,"text":"怎麼改善所以大家現在看到一個很好笑的人事審查立法委員面對的是一個空的質詢台被提名人沒有任何回應是你不想要被檢視嗎還是不需要通過民意的審查就已經內定好"},{"start":352.438,"end":378.23,"text":"是檢查總長了嗎你今天配合整個行政體系打壓一個民選的不分區立法委員中華民國憲法所有的民意政務官也好包括賴清德總統甚至本席都是對著中華民國憲法宣誓就任的請問你們這些人眼裡有中華民國憲法嗎"},{"start":381.459,"end":392.507,"text":"那你的薪水都是中華民國納稅人的薪水不是民進黨給你的薪水 也不是賴政府賴團隊給你的薪水"},{"start":395.709,"end":424.313,"text":"陸配的民意代表台灣民眾黨不是先例之前的國民黨也有過南投謝議員一樣也是陸配身份可是他從上任到卸任從來沒有任何事法性的問題今天賴政府帶著整個行政團隊刻意的羞辱陸配立法委員打壓陸配的民意代表原來本身合法的民意代表也全部給他薪水扣除"},{"start":426.124,"end":444.092,"text":"好 謝謝李珍秀女士那我想完全尊重你的發言行政部門或者行政官員或者被提名人之所以沒有上台倒不是他不尊重名義那是基於主席的一個才識他們可以不用上台備詢那其實"},{"start":447.573,"end":449.155,"text":"本席期許檢察總長身為檢察體系的最高長官不能淪為當權者的"},{"start":472.972,"end":484.6,"text":"法律打手啦應該要積極維護程序正義維護司法正義做全體國民的檢查整長讓人民能夠重新信任司法謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168350","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168350","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc76b06bf537daf39c7fa1e45401cc1f5858ce3249aa741ed41b9486bad3d5cf06a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"10:28:29 - 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我們這個退伍會有一個單位去承攬了空勤總隊跟總統專機的機棚"},{"start":210.496,"end":219.811,"text":"請問目前這個案子的進度如何?跟委員報告我們主要執行的是泛亞工程公司"},{"start":221.075,"end":245.453,"text":"那這個案子它總共分成ABCD再有四個工程四個工程裡面A、C、D這三個工程案目前進入的超前進入的超前的這是一個整體的一個總包案那問題出在這個B棟這個B棟那B棟主要是我們工程公司覺得這裡面的設計有問題這問題就是安全的問題如果照原來的設計規劃這樣走下去的話"},{"start":251.323,"end":268.474,"text":"會有問題所以現在停工然後現在是向工程會來申訴他們是希望解約工程公司希望能夠解約工程公司希望因為對方沒有要修改設計那前天如果重來的話要修設計要delay多久"},{"start":273.513,"end":299.202,"text":"那工程公司說如果你把設計修完了之後是安全無慮狀況下他可以接受他現在目前看這個設計的狀況他是可以說如期完工如果要修這個設計但你不修設計那就沒辦法做設計圖啊所以我知道那就是說如果現在去修了那個設計設計圖他們就可以如期完工如期完工關鍵就是要修設計圖"},{"start":303.749,"end":318.408,"text":"那所以要不要就設計一下工程會在處理中他們現在已經申訴到工程會這工程會在協助工程會在處理就是說他們最後會按照雙方的狀況是那工程會也開過第一次的會議了那工程會也認為這個設計圖是有問題的"},{"start":320.871,"end":334.882,"text":"所以現在就是工程會在處理如果解約重新做了設計按照目前的進度看起來它是可以如期完工因為這四個ABCD ACD都是超前的OK 好 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我們請國土署蔡署長麻煩蔡署長"},{"start":14.927,"end":35.049,"text":"好 署長好 先是感謝國土署其實對於這個行人相關的計畫辦理的補助然後跟這一些目前施行的計畫我都非常肯定因為對於地方的幫助很大那像是我們選區幾個人行道的不管是拓寬還是說改善的計畫其實目前也都成果蠻好的"},{"start":35.609,"end":64.21,"text":"那在這邊我想要先請教一下這個街道醫生的計畫就是其實也是永續提升人行安全計畫其中一個項目之一那我知道說2024年開始有先推了第一批那時候有大概一萬多件的案件送進來那算是蠻熱絡的那去年之後就開始變成只有一千多件那今年目前看到有上來登記的也大概是一千多件那我想要先請教說為什麼這個案件量只有第一年"},{"start":65.21,"end":83.017,"text":"很熱門呢跟委員報告那實際上這一些由民眾這邊直接來去提供的這一些案件齁其實他在執行上面有很多的一些困難度所以大概大家知道一些有時候會知道一些相關的訊息所以在提報上面就會慢慢的去減少"},{"start":84.397,"end":111.027,"text":"好這邊就是我想要拜託的就是說因為民眾當然也有這個其實是一個很好的管道讓民眾可以直接的公民參與嘛大家覺得哪裡有問題或是有想法都可以很直接的跟國土署來表達他們的意見但是呢目前看起來實際受理的案件其實第一年也只評選出八案然後第二年是十案那我想要請教的就是今年有沒有預計要評選幾案"},{"start":115.045,"end":143.803,"text":"各位報告每一年我們都會每一批次都是實案都是實案那也是會繼續辦理目前已經在3月16號有召開了好所以這邊我想要拜託的就是民眾也會希望說他們既然直接表達了那如果條件允許然後你們也很妥善的跟民眾溝通說這些確實就是民意的反應的話希望可以要嘛增加受理的案件量要嘛也告訴大家說接下來你們可以做的更多"},{"start":144.944,"end":168.765,"text":"我們會很支持這些案子因為這個是民眾直接報的所以很多民眾感同身受的一些地方我們會積極的去辦理也會跟地方政府來溝通那雖然他有些地方真的是不好做那我們還是跟地方政府利用各種目前在做的一些相關的技術或者是溝通這個部分很多個面向全部導入去協調完成"},{"start":169.065,"end":196.962,"text":"是啦我相信署長很有經驗啦這個跟地方溝通的事情那所以呢這個其實我就是希望說民意既然有反映了一定要讓大家的這個回饋感是有的就是覺得說我反映的事情政府真的有重視那每年評選只有評選十案我是覺得有點少啦我也希望說接下來可以的話可以再增加案量那另外一件事情就是受理的時間可以拉長因為現在也有民眾跟我反映說現在受理大概就是兩個月嘛"},{"start":198.042,"end":204.688,"text":"對 那大家希望說如果你們受理的時間可以拉長其實有更多的人可以在有限的時間裡面提供更多的意見"},{"start":205.632,"end":229.827,"text":"我們大概上半年會有一梯次下半年會有一梯次那每一梯次都有10案所以一年會有20案是一年都會有20案好對啊那有希望這可以逐步的增加那最後一件事情就是關於這個街道醫生其實你們都已經有這麼棒的民意的呈現了希望可以完整的把這樣的資料都提供給地方政府因為目前以你們的機制是說要達到門檻的"},{"start":231.368,"end":258.344,"text":"提案案件要200票以上你們才會做成一個清冊然後給地方政府參考嗎那如果可以的話其實你們就都放進去啊反正民眾都已經提供了所有的案件你們也都整理起來讓民地方政府知道說民意在哪裡好我們會比較廣泛的把這些資料收集好給地方政府好謝謝署長那另外一件事情我想要請教我們交通部的次長謝謝請署長先回座"},{"start":264.385,"end":288.64,"text":"好 次長好 這邊跟你請教一個醫療用的電動代步器你有看過嗎 在路上有沒有看過原則上就是我們講的代步車 類似像這樣那請問它算是我們把這種車輛定義就是行人的輔具沒錯 這就是我要請教次長的 它的定義是行人"},{"start":289.58,"end":318.504,"text":"所以呢他其實就是按照行人的規範要走在人行道上那當然很多地方人行道還不普及這個是我們要加強但是呢目前市面上有很多是違規的電動用的這個代步器會變成他們自己把最高上限應該只有10公里的限速提升到可以將近40公里所以你會看到路上有很多的這種醫療用的電動代步器他們是在標速的"},{"start":319.244,"end":326.953,"text":"那我這邊就接到過幾個陳情案件就是他在路上他是綠燈然後直行的車輛跟機車可是呢被那個非常快速的這個電動代步器撞過去那他們也很驚訝說哇"},{"start":336.123,"end":352.488,"text":"這個電動代步器不是最高應該是像行人一樣應該是走路的速度嗎怎麼變成機車的速度在行駛那這樣子擦撞的時候其實非常危險因為我接到的案件是怎麼樣呢第一個他們很多使用這個電動代步器的不會有保險"},{"start":353.328,"end":369.711,"text":"因为民间虽然有所谓的这个特别帮他们开设这样的项目可是因为他不是汽车也不是机车所以他不会有什么第三责任险也不会有一定要的强制险那这种东西你跟他发生擦撞的时候对方是没有保险的"},{"start":370.552,"end":394.117,"text":"沒有辦法理賠然後他也覺得我被撞得莫名其妙但是我不知道怎麼跟使用這個電動代步器的這樣的你說他是行人你說他是車主也好這是接下來很多東西是沒有辦法進行下去那甚至是像這樣子的違規上限可以到40公里的這種電動代步器喔市面上都是現在你上蝦皮你就找得到"},{"start":396.506,"end":414.596,"text":"我跟委員報告一下剛才委員一再提到那個電動代步車原則上是衛福部在這個核定或補助的當然他們核定的會希望大家照著規矩來這個都有一定的規定的所以剛才委員特別提到就是說如果沒有按照規定來的話這部分我想我們會來跟衛福部來討論因為像這樣的議題其實在中央的道安"},{"start":420.479,"end":442.808,"text":"的這個工作會小組裡頭大概也有請衛福部做一些相關的說明那後續呢這部分因為車輛因為那樣的一個輔具是由他們來核定的所以他本身對於什麼樣的輔具是符合規定的他有相關的規範那如果說不符合這個規範販售也好或者是在網路上販售或者是改裝也好"},{"start":443.908,"end":455.554,"text":"應該照理說要有相關的一個規範來如果不可規定那做處理那這一部分呢我們會來跟衛福部看怎樣來健全這樣的管理好謝謝次長這就是我要在這邊跟你拜託的跟衛福部討論看看你們要講說你們遇到的交通安全的狀況是這樣那衛福部不能只管他們的說符合標準就可以他們其實就是一個符合標準就可以來申請嘛一開始是想要照顧長輩輔具的申請就這麼單純"},{"start":472.762,"end":494.218,"text":"可是實際上路的時候就造成路上有很多狀況啊那這個應該是你們要把你們這邊的經驗彙整來跟衛福部討論才對第一個責任險是不是應該要有什麼樣的保險的機制讓他們在路上是更有安全保障的第二個這些違規的輔具在路上都已經變成是車輛了這個問題一定要解決是是是好這個拜託謝謝市長"}]}},{"id":"168348","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168348","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc77bd64043f3baeda2d16b10bbffbc7f678ce3249aa741ed410be9ff9e72e124835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"10:18:58 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郭玉琴委員好 謝謝主席辛苦了 有請部長有請部長"},{"start":15.489,"end":44.378,"text":"部長早安部長早安我想接下來這一題剛剛其實也有其他的委員有提過我想這不是單一的一個案件而是制度性的一個失守的一個問題那台中的這起這個狼屍教練的性侵案從整個個案到整個所有的制度失靈的一個狀況我們來回顧一下這個松信教練他從108年到113年長達6年的一個時間受害的學生高達了82人甚至他也涉及了"},{"start":44.878,"end":62.752,"text":"四十部的一個性影像那最小的受害年紀大概是八歲這令人髮指而且他是有性侵的一個尾碎還有這個性侵的一個前科我想這個新聞一出來其實讓我們非常非常之憤怒那我想所有的人都在問為什麼這樣子的人"},{"start":64.753,"end":82.028,"text":"他不是單一的個案他居然可以留在校園的球隊的體系當中可以留這麼久就算是地方政府他們沒有作為地方教育局沒有作為但我們的中央我們的運動部不能沒有角色這是我要提醒我們的部長那我想這個問題是我們現在看到的這個球隊的教練"},{"start":86.092,"end":102.042,"text":"他們有些是校園的這個外聘那有些是運用有些是協會來推薦那請問這些人有沒有比照我們教師不適任的一個查核的一個機制有沒有強制性性平的一個背景的一個查核如果沒有"},{"start":102.802,"end":123.52,"text":"那等於就是孩子在學校他變成有兩種不同的一個標準他穿上制服的時候教育局管但是他換上運動服的時候我們的運動部在哪裡我想這個我凸顯的這樣子的一個問題喔那我想運動部有沒有掌握這個全國的校園教練的聘任的一個資格跟他的背景如果"},{"start":124.081,"end":134.322,"text":"過去沒有那現在要不要開始介入我想這我點出第一個問題第二個問題是有沒有全國封鎖的一個機制我想這個案子其實讓人最害怕的"},{"start":135.41,"end":157.347,"text":"其實他不是一次性的犯案他是連續六年他是上百次的犯案上百次的犯案而且高達了82名的受害的孩子甚至這82名的受害孩子還是在檢調的調查當中還有沒有其他人是黑數我們真的不知道我想問的是如果今天一個教練他已經有這樣子的一個狀況了"},{"start":158.268,"end":182.769,"text":"能不能够有所谓的及时通报的一个机制能不能够阻止这样子的一个狼狮跨校园或者是跨县市阻止他再次的犯案如果不行他如果只是离开了学校他就可以到其他的一个地方继续的带球队那请问我们怎么防堵这已经不是漏洞而已这是严重的破口"},{"start":183.837,"end":207.336,"text":"我用破口來形容其實就表達我們對這件事情的一個憤怒還有我們運動部應該要怎麼樣重新來反省甚至我們要怎麼樣介入的一個問題再來第三個根據這個檢方的一個資料他犯案的地點包含校隊的一個教室宿舍還有宿舍外面比賽的飯店甚至在車上甚至在學童的住家"},{"start":208.477,"end":227.985,"text":"這些都是他犯案的場域那麼對於所謂的這個校隊他在外出比賽不管是集訓也好 住宿也好我們有沒有一個強制性的安全的一個規範比如說我可以禁止這個教練單獨跟未成年的球員相處有沒有這樣的一個機制或者是我可不可以要求至少兩個人以上的陪同"},{"start":228.405,"end":240.458,"text":"住宿的分房還有監督的機制在哪裡如果沒有我們等於又是把孩子交給一個完全沒有防護的一個環境這請何以堪再來第四點我們運動部這我要講的是請問部長"},{"start":244.457,"end":268.013,"text":"學生穿上制服跟換上運動服中間的這灰色的地帶我們要怎麼樣來整合如果連所謂的這個教練的基本的背景的審查風險的管理通報的機制我們完全都沒有那我想這個案件不是偶發這是我們對於整個所有的運動體系長期以來忽略了所謂的風險的一個結果請教一下部長我們怎麼辦"},{"start":270.802,"end":291.388,"text":"跟委員報告首先很感謝您對於這個學校的這個體育教練的這個問題的重視那在不適任教練的時候在運動部的成立以來其實就已經在這個不適任教練的機制已經進行那剛剛委員有提到或許我們還有很多需要精進的部分這部分我們也會回去再好好的精進"},{"start":292.168,"end":318.693,"text":"我給你三個方向我給部長提供三個方向第一個不適任的教練的一個查核機制這個我們是首先一定要開始一定要現在建立而且需要及時的介入第二個是建立全國校園教練的一個資料庫還有我們這個要跨部會來做一個即時通的一個整合跨縣市 跨區域 跨場域第三個就是比賽集訓的一個場域當中的一個安全規範我們可能也要馬上就要有"},{"start":319.313,"end":335.371,"text":"這樣子的一個規範出來這三個方向可不可以請部長給我一個具體的回答我們什麼時候可以提出具體的一個方案跟委員您報告那確實在運動部這邊也有在研議相關的制度是讓市已經在研議了那什麼時候會出來"},{"start":336.566,"end":359.708,"text":"跟委員您報告那這點上面確實我們需要這個我們目前評估的是適任的教練來申請相關的這個不適任的教練的公開可以公開嗎在網路上可以讓家長可以查得到嗎可以嗎孩子沒有辦法說話但我們要幫他說話可以嗎委員這部分我們會來處理你們會處理多久"},{"start":360.558,"end":381.14,"text":"跟委員報告是不是可以給我們一個三個月可以嗎三個月嗎三個月辦法要出來好嗎好那第二個問題請教一下部長我想這個話也很重我講出來你可能大概就知道是哪一位選手說的不要以為我沒有手可以擋你就可以一直閃我耳光"},{"start":382.592,"end":404.856,"text":"我想這句話非常非常重但是呢也非常的委屈我想這是來自一位他參加西班牙巴塞隆納國際帕拉游泳競賽當中他這次在這個50公尺他也拿到了非常仰視拿到非常好的一個成績雖然是拿到的這個國際賽的第七名但是他是亞洲的第一名這個就叫做林玉樹"},{"start":405.776,"end":419.164,"text":"我想他剛剛的這個公開的一個控訴喔其實呢就在於這個總會的部分那我想這個制度的壟斷跟行政上的一個干預這個問題我想這去年年底喔這個零數的這位選手他為了要參賽的一個資格爭取這樣子的一個機會我想這是對運動員"},{"start":425.367,"end":448.494,"text":"您身為運動員你曾經是傑出的國家的運動選手我相信其實這個部長一定非常清楚能夠為了要比賽爭取這樣子的機會這對運動員來講是何其重要的一件事情他自行募款35萬準備要出國但是呢這本來是應該要被鼓勵的但問題就在於整個國際賽的報名的窗口只有中華的帕總"},{"start":449.634,"end":473.671,"text":"他來掌握那再來選手他自費要參加最後卻被改成所謂的公費的一個資格同時連同他的教練也被臨時的更換這完全干預了整個所有的訓練那個體系我請教一下部長為什麼選手連自費來參賽的基本的權益我都要被總會來控制這到底是管理還是變相的行政壟斷請問"},{"start":475.083,"end":493.605,"text":"跟委員您報告那林玉樹選手的事情其實在事情發生的當下他們已經是公費來處理那其實是整團因為這個中東戰火的因素好講到中東戰火我要講了因為中東戰火的因素所以帕總就整個臨時取消所有的行程對吧"},{"start":494.81,"end":523.935,"text":"是嗎 帕總一句話而已喔帕總講說未來另有安排直接拒絕這代表什麼選手已經失去參賽的一個資格但是後來他還是自費去了齁但是我要問的是為什麼取消行程的決策跟標準有沒有達到那個標準的機制為什麼泳隊被取消但人家羽球隊沒有影響欸人家去了欸那是不是連自費都要看帕總的臉色"},{"start":524.375,"end":536.621,"text":"跟委員您報告那這一團確實在暫別可能那中間確實我們有希望說是不是更改航程的部分那確實他也說要更改航程他還可以自行自費更改航程啊選手"},{"start":537.642,"end":556.156,"text":"他有表達喔好所以這個就是中間的溝通上的問題嗎還是怕種的強勢因為這樣子的一個強勢的介入強勢的阻斷選手參賽的一個資格跟機會那連同訓練的節奏也被打斷了阿母還好"},{"start":556.656,"end":582.971,"text":"刚好这位零星的运动员他后来拿到很好的一个成绩所以这个要不要被检讨如果没有一定的标准片面的取消人家参赛的一个机会那我直接讲就是两个字叫黑箱真的就是黑箱所以这个要检讨再来我想我们每年都在补助所谓的这些总会包含帕总今年我们补助了两亿对不对去年大概是一亿多"},{"start":583.991,"end":608.24,"text":"去年是一多今年要補助兩億如果今天呈現出來的是選拔的標準的不夠透明或者是我剛剛說的行政的溝通失靈讓選手的權益是毫無保障請問部長這兩億的補助這個KPI的標準到底是什麼是不是跟帕總自己喜不喜歡這位選手的滿意度主觀意見有關係如果連基本的行政都做不好"},{"start":608.86,"end":628.263,"text":"那請問這個總會有沒有退場的機制還有有沒有懲處的機制身為主管機關的運動部問一下部長各位委員您報告當然在這個這個退場的機制不太確定但是起碼在這一個我們已經走退場的機制不太確定我們現在其實可以開始研擬確定的一個方式可以嗎好"},{"start":629.344,"end":654.042,"text":"如果他的正義這麼的大如果選手被影響公平參賽的機會都要被剝奪但他最後還是為台灣爭光了拿下了這麼好的一個成績那請問帕總的角色在幹嘛請問帕總的角色在幹嘛我再講一次喔具體提出三項的建議我也提供給部長來做一些參考我們來建立自費參賽的保障的機制不要被總會來惡意阻擋 可以嗎"},{"start":656.124,"end":677.63,"text":"可以好那第二個就是公開選拔跟報名的一個標準就像我剛剛講的如果我們有標準我們就不是黑箱我們避免黑箱所以我們要建立這個標準第三個對於帕總應該要啟動關於這一件這件事件的一個專案的集合必要的時候是不是我們的"},{"start":678.97,"end":702.355,"text":"運動部我們的主管機關可以來調整補助跟治理的結構我話講得還蠻客氣的直接講就是我們要對帕總我們來做一個深刻的一個檢討不要讓身上的選手他在國際上為台灣為我們國家在賣命但是他在卻被國內的總會的制度"},{"start":703.866,"end":722.184,"text":"裡面給消耗掉運動選手的生命其實有就像剛剛這個其他的委員有提到他是有生命週期的那我想林玉樹運動員他是一個非常優秀的這個身上的選手他也兩度拿下總統教育獎"},{"start":722.845,"end":731.45,"text":"而且為國爭光如果帕總因為個人總會的一個喜好對於這位選手的參賽的機會的一個剝奪我想這都是我們大家不願意樂見的從個案我們來檢討制度可以嗎可以好 今天還有時間的一個關係本來我還有適應體育的一個部分要問沒關係 我們還有機會好 再次謝謝部長我們一起努力好 謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"168341","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168341","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc77ebe413dcfe26704d16b10bbffbc7f678ce3249aa741ed41f774445f8f1023ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡春綢","委員發言時間":"10:06:44 - 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金這邊我們也有編列相關的預算因為避免可能會有相關的事情發生那我們也在今年開始因為現行的狀況來講我們也積極的什麼狀況"},{"start":83.06,"end":92.895,"text":"什么状况不能启行因为我们是新成立的部会所以在预算法的规定下面我们没办法动用动之这个新兴计划"},{"start":94.976,"end":120.797,"text":"部長我聽到你這樣講我很遺憾我們同都是你我都是提議人我們對於選手的權益我相信你都知道我們都要守護那這個比賽呢就是給選手一個最好的磨練的機會然後呢我們也要為選手呢守護他的權益然後為他提供更多的一個比賽比賽機會那如同如果"},{"start":121.698,"end":131.329,"text":"部長你說的新成立的一個部會在經會上有問題有困難那部長你有沒有到立法院來協商"},{"start":133.015,"end":160.138,"text":"跟委員您報告那這個在法定的程序上面我們確實沒有過但我們一直以來都從到昨天為止我們運動部同仁都積極與田協這邊來接下希望他們來輔導他們來使用這個基金的預算來去繼續舉辦這個田協的賽事也跟委員您報告那到昨天為止都還是這樣那我們今天也會繼續跟田協來去做後續的那希望他們這個可以繼續舉辦"},{"start":161.579,"end":177.453,"text":"田徑賽事能夠繼續舉辦這是我們台灣唯一一個田徑有積分的賽事沒有錯而且是國際賽那根據那個田徑協會的秘書長他說的是他的考量是行政院呢到今"},{"start":178.374,"end":189.822,"text":"今年的立法院總議帥一直無法通過因此被迫取消賽事我今天這計畫就政治化了那部長你知道嗎有一個新興計畫裡面有屬於"},{"start":194.418,"end":211.277,"text":"應當品牌賽事有多少錢經費對有沒有通過有沒有三讀通過有沒有沒有經過法律程序的什麼叫做沒有沒有沒有經過那個法律程序都在立法院三讀通過請問部長你知道嗎啊"},{"start":214.318,"end":238.009,"text":"有多少反對票有多少贊成的票是哪些黨同意要動用這一個款項是哪一個黨反對要動用這個款項部長你知道嗎跟委員您報告這部分我們還是會積極輔導那個田徑協會來去申請這一個基金的部分"},{"start":239.127,"end":253.397,"text":"部長 我要就是很沉重的跟你提醒喔運動 尤其是教育跟運動不應該被政治綁架不應該政治化"},{"start":254.335,"end":279.946,"text":"尤其運動選手是你我共同要保護的共同要守護的那不能讓政治來犧牲我們選手的一個潛意尤其是比賽尤其是國際比賽尤其是這個國際比賽是能夠讓世界看到台灣的而且也是讓我們台灣的選手可以花光花熱的一個賽事"},{"start":281.026,"end":301.991,"text":"我覺得這樣的一個倉促的一個取消讓我們很驚訝那是不是請部長你在做在跟田徑協會做一個做一個協商跟委員您報告這個部分到昨天為止我們都還有積極協商然後今天我們也會積極跟田協來希望讓這個比賽繼續舉辦好的那我"},{"start":309.312,"end":332.203,"text":"還要再跟部長講就是說這次呢 台灣田徑國際公開賽的賽事呢它是 就是選拔賽嘛 就是免股屋它還是有積分 打標嘛 一個積分的考量嘛對 一個積分的一個考量嘛所以呢 在 我們不應該有政治的一個考量應該我們要積極地來爭取這樣的一個比賽 這個賽事然後呢"},{"start":337.265,"end":362.742,"text":"跟委員您報告我們確實一直在積極的輔導協會繼續舉辦這件事情對所以我們並沒有這個好那如果是這樣子的話我們就希望部長你能夠積極的來爭取這樣的一個機會我們也都知道那個選手是需要"},{"start":363.752,"end":383.721,"text":"一而再 再而三的參加比賽那部長 你知道田徑選手他的一個運動年齡有多久他的一個登峰時期大概三至五年不像那個部長你是羽毛球的你可能你還可以把八年的奧運的一個金牌那你的那個羽球的一個運動年齡"},{"start":385.141,"end":386.343,"text":"就是他運動的年齡比較長田徑不一樣田徑賽的選手因為他的體能是要做很強化的一個運動所以"},{"start":400.763,"end":420.177,"text":"騰訊選手他的一個登峰時期大概3至5年所以我們要把握3至5年這個時間讓我們的選手能夠充分的來比賽所以像這樣這麼重大的一個賽事我們都不知道有沒有任何的一個訊息出來然後忽然間就宣布說要停辦所以讓我們非常非常的驚訝所以呢我希望呢"},{"start":426.141,"end":441.216,"text":"部長你能夠站在運動員的一個立場一定要堅持所有的比賽所有的國際比賽我們都要去爭取所有的比賽就不應該沒有議警的就隨便的取消跟委員您報告那真的很感謝您對我們運動"},{"start":442.377,"end":469.686,"text":"員的這個權益參賽國際賽事的這個權益這個重視那不管是今年剛提到的田徑協會的這部分的舉辦的賽事還是後續的一些國際賽事我們都已經正在積極跟各個協會去輔導使用這個基金的這個預算因為我們是新成立的部會所以我們去年還是有編列這個體育署的預算我們可以只是不能超支體育署的預算那我們在基金的這部分一直在輔導各個協會去使用因為對"},{"start":470.746,"end":496.938,"text":"是的 運動部是承接體育署的但是體育署也應該都有編列這些相關的一個監會我們當時就是避免可能會遇到這樣的事情所以我們今年還是有編列相關的預算所以在這裡我還是要提醒李昂部長運動一定不能夠分黨派"},{"start":498.039,"end":515.736,"text":"那也不能夠當成那個政治攻防或者是嫌棄工具因為從田徑協會這樣的公告就是因為凍結沒有監會嘛所以不辦嘛那就有點政治化因為我們其實我們早就通過了先先計畫8億的錢那個運動賽事的這個監會要讓運動部來致用"},{"start":522.983,"end":539.017,"text":"這個時候呢 里昂部長你應該要去跟行政院長要求他趕快附屬這個新型計劃如果行政院長附屬了 公告了這筆錢就可以用了啦"},{"start":540.188,"end":551.921,"text":"所以呢 我希望 這個是我幫你解套的如果要辦 你怕沒有經費 就是找行政院長就好了嘛找你們 走院長嘛 把這個經費呢附屬嘛 公告嘛 那就可以用啦"},{"start":556.667,"end":577.866,"text":"跟委員您報告我們還是會積極輔導我們還是優先以保護選手參賽權為主所以我們還是積極輔導各個協會在舉辦台灣的賽事的部分可以今年先完成舉辦這件事情那比如說後續還有在花蓮舉辦的ICG的這個比賽我們都還是會積極的去輔導各個賽事的舉辦成功那就希望說這個各個協會能夠這個轉換這個申請的方式"},{"start":583.45,"end":599.014,"text":"所以剛剛我就跟你這樣講嘛要跟那個行政院長去爭取啊那這是你應該要努力的這個監會都已經要給運動部來用了但是呢就是不附屬啊這個你要去爭取啊你要為我們選手去爭取這個監會啊"},{"start":602.675,"end":623.835,"text":"跟委員您報告那確實在我覺得我們還是優先關心這個就如同委員您關心的運動員參賽的權利因為今年這個參賽的部分我們參賽的就如同委員您講的運動員的巔峰時間每一個項目不太一樣如果就您敘述的田徑可能3到5年的話那我們還是優先先把比賽辦好為最優先項目"},{"start":625.697,"end":638.064,"text":"對 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主席 再讓我嚴監禁 列席政務司長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生有請經濟部 拱部長 農業部 陳部長以及衛福部的林次長然後公平會的陳代理主委請準備"},{"start":32.57,"end":60.731,"text":"莊委員長兩位部長好 次長好盤點大宗物資進口依賴度建立供應鏈數據庫防炒作來我們看一下首先似乎美伊戰事播映見日但是仍然要為未來做準備我們看到了包材肥料農業部跟經濟部都出手了好那我們常常有一句話說請看下一頁不要浪費任何一次的危機兩位部長跟次長還記得在26年前有一個921地震嗎"},{"start":62.27,"end":86.878,"text":"那個時候發生的是我在地方政府屏東縣政府服務很多地方主動要去救災結果高速公路塞住了後來做了什麼事情呢因為921正在這初期沒有實時交通管制道路交通混亂後來災防法27條跟災防救法第30條就設定了在緊急狀況的時候政府會介入對這些道路運輸的優先使用順序部長兩位部長你同意嗎"},{"start":88.805,"end":109.197,"text":"前事不忘後事之資來往下看所以呢在昨天我在衛生委員會我就問了我們的環境部部長我說在資源有限的情況下要建立使用的優先順序情況緊急 原味要上漲缺貨 民眾搶購 以息不穩我們的醫材 書藝等等等都需要用到塑膠容器來往下看那請問一下"},{"start":110.097,"end":137.49,"text":"三個部位 農業部的資財 衛福部的醫財跟經濟部他們商家所使用的包財哪一個最重要 你們有共識嗎來 次長說我們的醫財最重要 對不對我同意 環境部長也同意但是呢 你看馬上有意見了 我們包財也很重要啊後面農業部長你不出聲 農民怎麼辦所以怎麼辦 醫財優先啊醫財優先 好 所以我在昨天的時候其實就請 應該是反過來"},{"start":139.851,"end":152.145,"text":"環境部會同經濟部會合部農業部就塑膠原料的優先供應順序但是我們是足量供應給他們沒有所謂的足量當缺料的時候你就要管制但是誰給多誰給少誰來決定"},{"start":155.649,"end":171.447,"text":"是環境部規定還是經濟部決定那目前來講的話你們有沒有定出來的 必要性跟急迫性的優先順位有沒有定出來理論上是這個 理論上我當然知道有啊 實務上有沒有沒有 理論上是依財優先啦不 我現在不是誰優先 我說這個優先順位有沒有定出來了"},{"start":173.032,"end":200.528,"text":"我們會逐量供應給醫材第一個我不是在問逐量供應給醫材我是說未來有這麼多需求者誰優先不夠的時候誰給多少誰給多誰給少這個要不要定出來要定出來好不好我相信你們可能還沒定要定出來環境部因為他負責檢縮他要定了來那個次長請回我們請那個公平會上來往下看所以呢過往的危機啊過往的危機呢我們會怎麼處理"},{"start":201.653,"end":230.26,"text":"有沒有看過過去三十幾年前的擠兌我現在公平會陳大理事會銀行發生擠兌的時候你覺得你是銀行你會怎麼做限制大家一天只能領一萬塊你會這樣做嗎如果是擠兌的情況當然這也是一個可能的選項不是通常銀行怎樣他把所有的鈔票擺在櫃檯上說你們放心來拿不缺大家一看一看哇錢那麼多摸摸鼻子不要解單啦他會損失利息是不是這樣子"},{"start":231.607,"end":259.253,"text":"所以我們在遇到危機的時候管理方法不同有些時候你要防止恐慌性的需求產生孔部長同不同意所以我們經常不斷的宣布我們足量供應就是預防恐慌性的需求是不是這樣很好但是口罩呢農業部長口罩的時候我們怎麼做我們有說要多少給多少我都無限量供應有這樣嗎那個農業部長我先問你因為我不是問次長我是問農業部長"},{"start":260.433,"end":283.956,"text":"你還記得他怎麼做嗎口罩口罩當年怎麼做口罩當時我用實名制對不對嚴峻的時候是實名制的方式剛剛我們召委也說到了有時候恐慌來之前我們要讓大家安心有時候真的不足了我們要實名制要管制對不對好謝謝還往下看所以呢台灣要哪些原物料高度仰賴進口部長 拱部長你有確認過嗎"},{"start":286.415,"end":308.727,"text":"能源的部分是我們陳部長糧食的部分也有確認過嘛最主要是畜牧用的飼料往下看所以呢我們看到以西塑膠飆漲啊今天我在上週揭發了台塑化假減產真烘台他辯解啊他說沒有啊我還是按照過去我的客戶"},{"start":310.046,"end":318.395,"text":"一年平均的月需求我還是先給一半再給四分之一再給四分之一他還是給他啊部長 兩位部長 國務部長你相信嗎"},{"start":320.748,"end":345.888,"text":"我們有去了解有去了解他是說法是這樣為什麼他要這樣做如果那時候台塑化的秉希以希他是像跟銀行擠兌一樣你要多少我給你避免恐慌性的這個需求結果會怎麼樣有人來搶貨搶到家裡囤積只要公平會抓不到囤積的暴利不是台塑化拿到是這些搶購的這些客戶拿到是不是這樣子"},{"start":346.528,"end":350.15,"text":"所以他的說法說我不要讓他們去囤積去取得這個超額利潤乾脆要囤我來囤你覺得這樣的說法合理嗎很難判斷需要檢調調查"},{"start":359.221,"end":379.08,"text":"所以說啊 當有一個斷貨危機的時候 手上有貨有料的他就會思考 我要是足量供應 試考別人在賺啦要是我這邊開始管制 到時候要給多要給少 我在賺 往下看所以我先問一下 如何遇上炒作首先要掌握真實的需求 陳主委你是不是同意"},{"start":381.049,"end":404.768,"text":"市場上目前的供需狀況是當然要了解的那你如何掌握真實的需求關於塑膠力所產生的各種產品從進口商、大盤商、中盤商、零碗商、消費者請問經濟部你如何掌握這些節點的真實需求我們都有這個看到原物料的去向我們都有了解確定嗎 我往下看來 從進口商到大盤商、中盤商你怎麼確定它的進跟消"},{"start":406.021,"end":426.273,"text":"你能掌握他的競銷項嗎如果巨乙烯的話是非常清楚到塑膠粒往下走他會囤在巨乙烯而已啦他會囤在塑膠粒啦因為塑膠粒的話是國內有供應而且還有進口啦你如果要掌握我告訴你啦因為我從財政委員會過來啦競銷項哪裡最清楚發票啦"},{"start":427.168,"end":454.783,"text":"是不是這樣子所以要掌握這些有發票的這個金流我可以知道它的競銷向嘛 對不對往下看好 那什麼工具我已經幫你講了什麼工具可以幫助政府建立資料庫金流的部分從進口商到中盤商都有競銷向的發票從零售商到消費者可能就沒有但是物流的部分除了報關資料之外你們知道過去稅捐機關怎麼查網購到底的營業額嗎"},{"start":456.632,"end":478.293,"text":"網購的這些賣家 你知道他銀額怎麼查嗎有沒有聽說 我跟你們講啊他如果覺得這個網購的賣家說我上個月只做了一百萬他去查他的什麼 查他你到底多少宅 物流 黑貓啊不對啊 你上個月你交給黑貓的配送物件就好幾百單了 怎麼可能銀額只有一百萬 了解嗎"},{"start":479.554,"end":507.703,"text":"所以部長除了金流的競銷項的發票之外還有物流的貨運的存取單啊你們有沒有把這個東西納入你是說要掌握什麼沒有關鍵的有進口依賴度的這些物料我們要為了緊急時我們可能沒有辦法足量供應我要給需要的人我要給他實際的需求的人我怎麼知道他過去每個月用多少我可以跟他謊報啊對不對"},{"start":509.004,"end":518.922,"text":"經濟部有沒有能力掌握 光平會如果是生產端 我們是有是的 現在不是生產端嘛 部長現在囤的在哪裡在中間的通路端嘛 陳主委"},{"start":520.758,"end":545.808,"text":"來 請教一下 你覺得呢 你要怎麼做對於這個所謂生產端的一些供需狀況我們必須要 通常都是在個案的時候 我們會進去調解是的 從生產到最後的消費者當中還有什麼 還有物流嘛 有中間的盤商嘛盤商你如何掌握他的進貨跟出貨有沒有屯 屯在他手上 進的多出的少 這叫屯嘛有沒有辦法掌握 部長了解了沒有要怎麼去掌握這些"},{"start":547.236,"end":575.655,"text":"我們如果有個案的話我們會去聊起來有個案啊但是當你要實施必要的時候要實施限量供應的時候你怎麼知道他真實的需求往下看所以呢我希望啊農業部也好經濟部也好當然衛福部他們比較容易掌握因為醫察的管制比較嚴所以呢多元的來源進口商這部分政府會參與從大盤中盤這裡面有競銷向的發票到了零售商這邊到了消費者手上可能還有物流的委託單"},{"start":576.957,"end":594.599,"text":"那這些數據有誰打算去掌握?我是針對什麼?針對這些有高度進口依賴的大宗物資,它所產生的衍生的民生物資,我們去掌握它的實際需求,以及它的去向。部長,這樣你同意嗎?跟你簡單講,你打算怎麼做?"},{"start":595.697,"end":615.184,"text":"如果這樣的話可能要一個很大的一個數據的一個現在就AI什麼AI就搞定了我們召委他就說了他是科技他是數位你問召委他就可以幫你解決我們嘗試來做但是這個東西是不是有牽涉到所謂的營業秘密還是是的沒有做所以你們要去研究你們有三八數對不對好陳部長農業的部分有沒有辦法做到"},{"start":619.066,"end":646.595,"text":"農業部分基本上我們針對主要的這些原物料的部分我們其實已經掌握進口商本身跟飼料廠之間的這些異動那往下通路的部分呢那基本上飼料比較不會有在另外通路通常都是進口來以後在飼料廠飼料廠就到農民端了是 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新章從109他只有10%現在已經進步到20%就是在委員的資格上10%也太低了我們34%持股耶然後那個主委你看一下會見董事長跟會見總經理洪志也是只有新章"},{"start":513.894,"end":540.225,"text":"五位我們退府會持股就算很低的薪高21%好歹還總經理是我們派的就新章我們有34%董事長不是我們派的總經理不是我們派的然後我們推薦的退俗衣官兵就業率又遠低於我們持股比率為什麼全部只有新章我就公開點名就只有新章他們的民間持股是誰"},{"start":541.543,"end":556.918,"text":"他流動率比較低人員流動率比較低所以這個牽涉到安置根據統計不會只有新章很特別那我們也知道以前歷史的因素相對持股的民間持股多數都是地方的政治人物新章到底對照是誰"},{"start":557.658,"end":585.144,"text":"委員好 這個新章是我們新雄 新南 新章這三家都是租家的都租家的那為什麼租家在新章這麼難配合因為他們持股超過百分之五十 將近百分之六十租家的持股超過百分之六十你說新高新南安置也不錯啊我們有會見總經理啊為什麼獨獨新章三無安置比率低無會見董事長 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我想今天有關於強迫勞動的議題是非常的重要因為大家知道美國301條款它已經開始啟動調查我們台灣其實是要被調查的國家另外一個在歐盟裡面我們可以看到它禁止強迫勞動產品上市的規章也即將要上路"},{"start":37.798,"end":54.924,"text":"所以強迫勞動不僅是關乎到我們移工人權的議題也涉及到我們的企業將來這些產品可不可以在美國跟歐盟繼續的擴展他們的通路那這當中我們今天看到行政院今天即將要審議通過這個救福法這是勞動部提出來的"},{"start":60.226,"end":88.289,"text":"列為討論案嗎 會通過嗎 應該會吧現在在開行政院會嗎 但是列為討論案好 如果今天行政院這一個法案通過之後第一個問題我要請教部長的就是因為根據ILO它的強迫勞動指標有11項那你這一次的修法在這11項當中你可以改善的事項有幾項按照行政院你們現在送出來的版本"},{"start":89.499,"end":115.504,"text":"這次行政院的版本主要是針對留置證件的這一項所以是11項之一對只有一項這次是針對留置證件的部分那太少了吧11項只改善一項那請問我們這樣子對於美國的301條款我們他如果啟動調查的話11項我們只有針對那個身份證扣留相關證件扣留這一項另外那10項怎麼辦一樣違反嗎"},{"start":117.504,"end":138.904,"text":"跟我的說明並不是這樣子的其實它的11項裡面其實我們也都有梳理它其實有對應相關的我們目前既有的法規那有一些比方對應救福法有一些是對應勞基法比方工時的問題對應的是勞基法那可能有一些救福法也會有一些是性供法好那我問你你全部盤點包括今天行政院要通過的這重要的關鍵指標這11項你可以改善幾項"},{"start":143.782,"end":164.35,"text":"我先跟委員說明我們自己在相關的法規盤點之後我們認為在法規強度上確實有改善的必要的有幾個第一個就是剛才講到留置證件的部分再來一個就是關於抵債勞務的部分抵債勞務有在這次的修法裡面嗎抵債勞務沒有在這次的修法那為什麼不放進去因為抵債勞務這部分我們跟美方的承諾是承諾三年內"},{"start":166.431,"end":186.089,"text":"會針對這個招募費的部分在製造業跟餘老業會要來以法規的方式來修訂所以美方有同意我們三年內改善三年內不追究嗎但是如果有的話為什麼這一次巨大還是發生這麼嚴重的他的這個產品被扣留的跟我們說明第一個一個部分是個案一個部分是同案"},{"start":186.77,"end":207.315,"text":"那巨大的部分當然巨大公司其實這段時間他也很積極的改善那我們當然政府的部分我們是針對通案的部分來進行所以剛才講的三年內要來以法規禁止向移工收取招募費跟相關費用這部分尤其是在製造業跟漁勞業部分這是我們跟美方討論好有共識的承諾事項"},{"start":208.22,"end":223.236,"text":"那這個為什麼你的速度沒有辦法再加快因為這一個禁止招募費這一個項目抵債勞務事實上是ILO它在強迫勞動禁止強迫勞動裡面非常關鍵的一個我給這個部長看一個數據"},{"start":224.837,"end":239.61,"text":"這個是國際調查的記者他們調查的這個你們可以回應2019年他的調查他顯示大概有高達66.7%的移工需要借貸支付仲介費"},{"start":240.971,"end":260.636,"text":"這一個部分第一個我請教勞動部你有沒有最新的調查這個數據有沒有下降第二個如果情況是這麼嚴重的話事實上這個禁止招募費應該是非常關鍵的為什麼不要在這一次的修法裡面既然又要修了我覺得為什麼不要直接把它放進去一併來處理的"},{"start":263.757,"end":281.82,"text":"在我們的知音裡面就是二月剛出爐的知音裡面其實我們認為抵債務是很關鍵的部分那確實現在的聘僱模式其實是台灣從90年代開放移工聘僱以來其實累積下來的一個聘僱的模式那"},{"start":282.981,"end":299.162,"text":"我也跟委員坦承因為確實台灣其實大概有九成的移工的聘僱其實是在中小企業所以我們第一個我們是認同這個方向必須改善可是也因為這裡面其實涉及到真的蠻多的中小企業那要讓中小企業可能會需要讓他們有一點調適期"},{"start":301.204,"end":317.679,"text":"所以我並不是三年後才來處理是我們現在從指引到宣導甚至各種制度上面包括接下來的仲介評鑑都必須相關的修訂把這個聘僱的模式就是公平招募聘僱的模式一步一步的去引導比較朝向現在國際上面要求的狀況好"},{"start":319,"end":341.305,"text":"這個其實已經到了關鍵時刻了你剛剛特別提到評鑑我就要問你那這個你的評鑑制度你要改哪一些關鍵性的內容因為如果你對於這些人力中介公司你在評鑑上面你沒有辦法有一個好的鑑別力你沒有一個好的強制性的評鑑指標事實上你不會有任何改變的是 所以我說"},{"start":342.789,"end":371.596,"text":"評鑑對於人力重建的評鑑所以你的重點你要改變哪些包括要把你如果今天回答不出來我希望你們就是把一個報告給你可不可以重點告訴大家可以可以就是我們要把公平招募的概念放到變成是其中的評鑑指標甚至要那你現在持續你沒有禁止招募費啊你這邊會有衝突的你知道嗎跟文說明第一個事情是因為法規的禁止我剛才說三年要處理這件事情對那你評鑑要先行嗎評鑑當然要先改"},{"start":372.296,"end":391.885,"text":"好所以就是說如果有這個高額招募費的高額仲介費的他就不可能成為是A級的人力仲介公司我們現在在這個評鑑裡面當然現在我們還在細部上面去做這些評估跟規劃可是評鑑的確一定不可能是三年後評鑑一定是這段時間你預計什麼時候上路你行修正的這個評鑑制度"},{"start":395.307,"end":414.867,"text":"我們現在評鑑的內容我們現在還在研議這部分其實法案組很密切在研議但我們也希望能夠盡快然後哪一些評鑑能夠讓公平招募在評鑑裡面具有鑑別性這是重點那你預計什麼時候 要個期程吧"},{"start":415.287,"end":430.426,"text":"我們是至少是希望今年我們可以處理然後明年是不是可以上路明年正式上路今年修改指標明年正式上路我們現在在研議這個相關的指標好我希望這一個事情你如果沒有做一個關鍵性的改變"},{"start":432.088,"end":444.562,"text":"事實上這些現象是不會消失的因為修法速度慢那你如果要憑鑑先行你就要有一個強制的指標接下來我要問你就是你另外一個提到就是職聘職聘的部分也是現在一個很大的問題事實上"},{"start":447.005,"end":475.812,"text":"我們在講這些大額的中介費等等有另外一個你可以幫中小企業拚的管道就是職聘制度你怎麼讓他更便利化你怎麼讓這些職聘可以省下一方面移工省下費用一方面雇主這邊也一樣可以省下費用但是我看到你現在的這個職聘制度你現在有三大問題第一個就是你的程序是非常繁瑣的有很多民眾他也想要自己拼但是程序繁瑣他有的只是勾錯欄位就被推薦"},{"start":476.792,"end":497.205,"text":"他哪有那個美國時間就是一直去跑你的職聘中心然後跑到一半之後放棄了然後還是回頭找中介公司這個程序繁瑣的問題我覺得你們到現在沒有改善第二個職聘服務中心過去其實從九處然後縮減到成一處然後你再從去年到今年再增加到變三處"},{"start":498.766,"end":526.047,"text":"這個是一個雞生蛋蛋生雞的問題你整個行政的程序沒有改善你沒有一個更友善的更便捷的措施所以你的量就很少量很少你回過頭來你就是裁測了這一些職聘服務中心然後又更不便利了所以又更少了那這個就是一個惡性循環就變成現在這樣一個情況所以你的職聘比例現在非常的低啊你現在整體的比例你企業的部分不到3%吧"},{"start":527.13,"end":544.4,"text":"根本說明第一個其實在強化職聘裡面是我們現在一個非常重要的工作目標裡面其中有幾個做法第一個部分是要把職聘的服務中心的這個個數的這個數目給增加你要增加到多少過去是九處"},{"start":544.96,"end":572.925,"text":"接下來到中部跟南部也會設但更重要的部分其實是剛剛委員其實有講到行政很煩我們目前其實也在檢討因為我們有很多在聘僱流程裡面的要求跟行政上面的關卡點我們也希望能夠把它給簡化那這個簡化的部分我們也正在跟相關部會正在談因為裡面比方有些部會設計那個部長有我提醒你因為你上任部長之前"},{"start":574.266,"end":589.858,"text":"委員會曾經就去參觀過你們職聘中心當時也有要求行政流程應該要再更便捷他們也說好啊好到現在你現在接了部長之後還是很繁瑣所以你們這個改變的速度非常的緩慢跟我說明齁其實"},{"start":592.32,"end":612.668,"text":"關於整個聘僱流程的簡化其實現在番薯是非常非常大量在檢討中裡面的功像其實是蠻多的概念就是像剛剛委員說的一樣這也是大家在講的當他的程序很繁瑣的時候僱主要自己來辦的時候他遇到的行政成本就會很高"},{"start":614.088,"end":635.36,"text":"那所以這裡面會有幾個部分剛才講說職聘的點要增加再來是流程要簡化再來一個部分也很重要因為職聘他會要談的是國對國的這個選工所以我們其實也要針對國對國的選工來增加跟來源國的商議希望能夠在國對國的選工裡面來源國給的這個勞動的這個移工的人數的供給希望能夠更穩定是"},{"start":641.963,"end":663.569,"text":"這也是為什麼我們其實在今年的公務預算裡面其實有編列演覽中心跨國演覽中心就是希望有更多可以跟來源母國談國對國的這個公益的點可是跟我們說明這部分我們其實編列相關預算需要預算的通過"},{"start":665.254,"end":692.082,"text":"會 預算一定會通過 對但是重點是我們做不出來到底那個流程應該要怎麼簡化怎麼會開會討論了兩年多了還是檢討不出來剛剛說這幾件事情都必須同時進行這個點要增加 流程要簡化國對國的這樣子的因為你們昨天才出了一個新聞稿我覺得很好啊你告訴民眾說自己去直拼可以省兩萬六"},{"start":693.615,"end":718.037,"text":"重點是你今天行政程序繁瑣他花的成本可能不止兩萬六但是重點是花了不止兩萬六的成本之後還不一定辦得成這個才是問題好不好所以今天我希望你們這一套的檢討執聘我非常的贊成往這個方向去做但是你們的成效不彰我希望你們可以有一個檢討那你這個行政程序的檢討什麼時候要出來"},{"start":719.898,"end":731.102,"text":"有一個新的 便捷的 讓民眾很有感的就是我可以透過職聘找到我需要的外籍移工郭文維說我們其實目前也在評估時程因為有些部分比較 因為其實它的功效蠻多的有些部分可以比較快有些部分可能還要多一點時間沒關係 你給外界一個時間我們來監督你嘛 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主席有請嚴主委我們請主委林委員好主委好今天我要質詢的一個議題是比較嚴肅的雖然我們都知道在退伏會的部分很多的題目當然都是著重一種服務的部分但是在服務的部分裡頭呢有一個就是跟公車有關"},{"start":26.587,"end":55.264,"text":"那麼過去我其實在委員會當中不只一次的質詢有關於經濟部或國安局就是我們的公車系統裡面如果有中國製造的話那麼會非常危險它形同是一台這個中國放在台灣內部的不論是真房車、間諜車等等那麼現在我要您看一下這是我們在我們新興跟大南客運當中的環景系統所以環景系統就是公車在路上跑但是"},{"start":56.204,"end":73.817,"text":"它為了安全起見所以它會拍攝到許多的路人車子跟街景而現在呢居然被抓到的是我們的公車系統當中用的是海思晶片海思晶片 海思半導體它是什麼樣的一個"},{"start":75.378,"end":103.768,"text":"民營企業呢是中國中華人民共和國廣東省深郡市言下之意他就是華為底下的公司而新興跟大南客運所使用的中國海思晶片晶片就在台灣我們雙北地區的公車跑來跑去這是一個非常嚴重的國安問題而且我現在"},{"start":104.888,"end":120.13,"text":"給的這張畫面是提供給我的人所拍攝時機在公車上面直擊下來的他甚至於企圖去塗抹把這個海思晶片的Logo把它去除掉"},{"start":121.55,"end":143.969,"text":"我在4月7號所資的時候當時第一時間新興跟大南所說的這些公車品牌都講到了它的環境系統產地有台灣有荷蘭但是經過我提供了這個照片之後4月8號所更正的資料裡面發現確實沒錯新興客運它的公車廠牌是創意"},{"start":148.633,"end":175.731,"text":"系統商是誠意而他使用的晶片是製造地中國大南客運同樣有這一間公車的廠牌跟他的系統商他所用的環景系統依舊是中國我第一時間要求提供採購時間為什麼因為我在想會不會是多年以前的合約所以以至於誤用了所謂的中國製造的晶片但是我發現採購時間竟然是"},{"start":178.774,"end":186.755,"text":"最接近的114年言下之意就是2025年也就是去年所以這整體的事件我要請"},{"start":188.188,"end":215.964,"text":"主委好好的來調查跟了解而目前對於這樣的一個廠商因為我們都知道在我們的這個切結書當中都有特別提到的就是嚴禁中國製造結果就這麼巧是一個拍攝台灣台北市雙北街景的環境系統裡面竟然就用了中國製造的晶片"},{"start":216.644,"end":217.785,"text":"所以說對於這樣的一個完全把切結書視為無物的廠商或者是系統商請問一下主委我們應該要如何來處置跟處理"},{"start":229.751,"end":258.539,"text":"县委员提供这个资讯我们也认为这个非常严重不能用中国大陆的这个制品是不可以的我们查目前这两家公司的电动公车这个环境系统它是按照当初是按照政府采购法公告来采购也是交通部审验合格的厂牌跟车型但是合约规范里面就已经规范不可以使用中国的一些产制品这在合约规范里面有的而且交通部当初也叫厂商做切结都已经完成这些程序了"},{"start":259.099,"end":274.251,"text":"而且目前我们查到的确是有这两家公司有违规的这个违反违反契约的这个中国制的一个产品我们现在的做法就是我们呃成立一个专业小组啊要去做全面的普查看这公司里面到底还有哪些"},{"start":274.952,"end":289.58,"text":"晶片是屬於這個公司的所有的全面做一個普查這是第一個第二個當然就是要提出球場向廠商追廠按照契約並且要更換這些所有的產品那目前跟委員做以上的報告"},{"start":290.468,"end":299.374,"text":"因為根據我現在手上的資料就是這兩家客運公司在雙北地區營運加起來是有700輛也就是新興有474輛而大南有259輛但是不全部都是這兩家廠商所以目前為止這一家廠商所以我要詢問的就是創意的公車品牌裡面的系統商使用的誠意的這個部分有幾輛"},{"start":320.228,"end":322.369,"text":"星星有幾亮 大南有幾亮現在有數字嗎 還是還在清查當中因為如果根據合約的話所以我要知道的是到底還有多少個這個MIC 就中國製造的晶片正在每天喔 在陸上 在雙北的"},{"start":336.714,"end":352.228,"text":"公車路線上不斷的在拍攝因為我們都知道海思過去一直有個狀況就是他會回傳這個所謂後門的系統包括之前也有說這個海思的晶片會把家裡面的狀況是回傳到中國去那麼我們從去年114年這個合約簽訂之後到底已經跑了多少趟多少的公車這個其實是更要注意的"},{"start":365.555,"end":370.997,"text":"兩家公司的電動車,總共兩家是244輛,新興是175輛,大蘭是69輛那現在出問題,成益公司的新興是61輛,大蘭是21輛,所以總共有問題的是82輛"},{"start":382.842,"end":412.032,"text":"那麼這82輛有多少時間去做調度比如說他們是不是即刻起不能上路然後要花多少時間讓他們更換回來不是中國系統的晶片這個有沒有一個工作期程跟時間點我們已經請兩家公司要按照這個重大事件的處理馬上就開始啟動已經在處理處理的時間大概是要多少到再跟委員做個回覆"},{"start":412.332,"end":423.898,"text":"好對於這樣的系統商我希望能夠列入黑名單那麼當然黑名單的部分也跟經濟部有關所以這個部分我也會去跟經濟部跟交通部來做進一步的質詢因為對於你們來講他們一定是給你們就像剛主委您說的是給了一個"},{"start":429.898,"end":445.443,"text":"可以來做採購的安全的名單嘛那這個部分我希望你們也回報給經濟部讓他們知道那我也會同樣帶著這份資料去相關的部門做質詢好不好我們一定交通部反映了好是 大家一起來做好 OK是 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我想前面可能有很多跟關於政治的討論那我這邊基本上就是回到非常實務面的討論就是有關於兒少的議題上面想要來跟貝提敏做一個討論就是說我想今天其實我最在意的事情是說未來一位要指揮監督全國檢察官的總長到底要用什麼樣子的案件來看待兒少我們這投影片還沒有出來是不是好"},{"start":47.611,"end":55.489,"text":"没关系那我想我先讲的就是说因为我想最近有一个案子就是在土城的时候呢"},{"start":57.093,"end":84.065,"text":"土城的一個案子是這個老師他是猥褻了12名兒童但是這個狀況是家屬其實已經在報案前就已經先打電話去確認流程警方也表示可以直接前往可是實際到現場又不要求他到另外一個派出所到了派出所之後又告訴他這個案件比較嚴重要到婦幼隊然後再去驗傷所以一個不到10歲的孩子"},{"start":84.605,"end":102.5,"text":"為了要讓加害人被追究就在這14個小時一次又一次的去撕開自己的創傷我認為我想自己我也看過您的自傳其實您是有這個婦幼的專業您過去也是這個婦幼保護跟被害人保護的一個歷練所以我想"},{"start":105.523,"end":121.816,"text":"這件事情其實我看在2024年的時候高檢署舉辦重大兒虐與司法詢問員研討會的時候您自己就有公開提到說司法詢問員的制度是要避免兒少級心智障礙被害人反覆陳述減輕心理負擔也就是說要透過制度優化"},{"start":123.077,"end":140.955,"text":"確保我們的被害人在平等跟尊重的環境下參與司法的一個程序而事實上其實我們的程序上面也都存在不管是在衛福部也好法務部也好其實都有相關的一個程序可是我們的制度上似乎在第一線並沒有真正的落實您認為問題到底是什麼"},{"start":144.552,"end":159.774,"text":"報告委員因為委員所追尋的這個內容應該是比較超出我們今天的範圍因為附約案件的話並不在我們的督導範圍之內沒有我的意思是說我今天是要問您的態度您到底可以被檢察官"},{"start":160.114,"end":178.086,"text":"因為詳細的內容我沒有卷我也沒有辦法客觀的回答我只能就這個感覺如果說一個小孩子要重複陳述十幾次的話我們就要檢討了我們真的就要檢討了因為不應該發生這樣的事情因為我們都有值班人員"},{"start":178.786,"end":181.53,"text":"抱歉喔 因為其實我想這個不是說針對這個個案來回覆喔而是說我們對於這樣子的案這樣子的狀態 而是要減速的一個狀態其實是我們的一個目標嘛 對吧我們現在正在做啊對 那我的問題就是說問題是它沒有落實嘛所以您認為這個問題是在哪裡嘛"},{"start":195.469,"end":210.945,"text":"因為有時候檢察官的判斷他可能認為說這個案子還有一些疑點可能請警察再繼續調查所以他沒有馬上去做那個偵訊這個都有可能發生所以具體的狀況一定要值班的檢察官才能夠了解"},{"start":211.545,"end":226.302,"text":"那如果說重複十幾次這個就非常非常的因為其實我想並不是只有這個個案啦其實是有蠻多不少的個案都有提出類似的問題那當時我們也做了一些了解普遍大家是說因為檢察官的案量很大"},{"start":227.223,"end":255.542,"text":"所以他難以及時親自詢問所以會用傳真指揮的方式來處理那結果就是讓被害人在警局枯等很久那也就是說原本我們的制度是好意希望可以保護他減速可是事實上卻造成他還是重複講那我想問一下就是說如果說您擔任檢察總長因為在我們的這個現在的檢察官的案量還是這麼大的狀況之下您覺得我們可以怎麼樣子來去改善這樣子的一個問題呢你有沒有一個方向呢"},{"start":256.805,"end":274.882,"text":"我想檢察官缺言那這個是一整體的問題我們當然就增援啦那剛才那個性侵害我自己也辦過我知道就是說有時候檢察官基於證據的收集有時候問完以後發現還有一些東西要再鑑定那我們是不是有一些"},{"start":275.262,"end":302.758,"text":"有些就會在第二次的開庭我覺得從兩次以上的開庭一定會有有時候是為了證據的蒐集這調查到最後的部分發現有一塊可能還不完整那為了起訴當然要完整性以免說到最後會拿到不利的判決所以有可能再補充的詢問這都會發生但是減少減速流程這絕對是我們追求的目標這個我們已經執行很久了"},{"start":303.278,"end":331.314,"text":"對在被提名單未來如果真的是成為我們的檢查中章我希望我們可以如實的去檢討我們現在到底哪裡還有不足的地方然後你剛說有第一次開庭第二次開庭第一開始沒有拿到一些問題沒有達到陳述那這些東西是不是都可以再怎麼樣去精進因為畢竟我們還是要回到這個我們可以承諾我們可以承諾在相關的研討的時候也會提出來好那我還有下一題就是有關於我們的兒少延長性兒少性侵人被害人的追溯時效我們是"},{"start":332.715,"end":346.831,"text":"想請教你的立場,你是否支持延長呢?這個我們的草案現在已經送到大院了我的意思是您的態度當然是支持,就是在20歲以前就不列入"},{"start":347.492,"end":362.079,"text":"就是說基本上您的態度是支持我們現在預告的版本嗎就是支持的OK好那我只是要了解你的態度那再來就是說我想要請教就是說因為我們還是回到一個檢察官我覺得我們這段時間其實社會也針對成少共"},{"start":365.4,"end":381.426,"text":"有很多的討論就是認為說我們應該要及早的介入更重的處理甚至把整個兒少的司法少年司法往成人的刑事司法的方向拉過去但是其實這有一點跟我們的CRC的精神是相違背的那我不曉得您的態度又是怎麼樣如何面對這樣子的問題"},{"start":383.679,"end":410.059,"text":"我想這個部分司法院已經在做檢討了陳少共犯站在檢察官的立場法官不可以完全退離因為如果不解決陳少共犯的問題的話會有源源不絕的案子會進入少年法庭所以我們現在重點是要協助我們去追成年犯只有有效的肅清這些成年犯兒少才不會再繼續變成共犯"},{"start":410.339,"end":418.625,"text":"那你認為兒少他是被害者還是受害者呢他應該是證人他是證人我們是把他列為證人在我們這個角度是證人"},{"start":419.687,"end":448.604,"text":"好 所以我的問題就是說因為我認為我們在這段時間其實跟一些檢察官在溝通了解的時候我們其實都可以感受到他們積極破案的一個決心大家都非常的想要趕快去避免下一個人受害這我百分之百肯定但是我們也可以看到說在這個過程之中他是不是有一些沒有考量到他也是一個需要被保護的兒少當然 這個東西要如何去平衡就是說當我積極的想要去破案的時候我可能會"},{"start":449.905,"end":464.676,"text":"比較長的時間去來詢問他那這樣子的狀況之下可能就會讓或是有些詢問的方式也沒有非常的考量到他是一個受害者的角度所以我想這應該是要找到一個應該我們會引應該都會有一些"},{"start":465.296,"end":478.896,"text":"遮蔽 隱匿 或者是有一些保護的措施兒少的話不可能是這樣大剌剌的就這樣當然我知道 我指的是說我們在這個包含他在詢問的時候呢有時候要陪同"},{"start":480.058,"end":508.175,"text":"可是有時候也有這種例外的案例啦所以我想我們實務上面跟我們制度上面呈現了一個落差那所以我覺得就是說這部分其實就在有衝突的狀況之下就是期待說檢查總長未來您勝利擔任的時候呢我們還是要展現這樣子的態度不要說為了一面為了要積極的破案結果卻傷害了一個兒少的權益這中間是要取得一個平衡的好 謝謝"},{"start":509.678,"end":509.698,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168343","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168343","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7b4002a0e9594a9f2fa1e45401cc1f5858ce3249aa741ed412aad447d12a835725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王安祥","委員發言時間":"10:13:30 - 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有請主委請主委王委員好主委長剛剛看到王委員在講有關於轉嫌因為我看到輔導會的報告裡面其實跟我們在勞動方面的一些尤其是一些轉嫌其實有非常大的關係我想有空我大概跟大家就教一下"},{"start":29.77,"end":58.971,"text":"因為在我們這個專業裡面其實跟王委員剛剛講的一樣第一就是我們其實有一些職能的分析啦也許可以協助輔導會在這個轉弦上會有一些更好的一個促進的結果那我看到這個在報告裡面不管是這個就學輔導還是就業媒合上其實都我覺得都還不錯啦這個不管是人次啦或人啦這個基本上都還不錯那我想那個有一個居民專長的轉弦嘛那現在也有做一些平台啦"},{"start":60.47,"end":79.54,"text":"因為最近我發現一個狀況就是好像大家年輕人包括我們那些學生去報考公職的狀況好像意味比較低一點點我們想補考會這邊有沒有因為這樣多去推薦一些退輔的人員能夠轉入公職的部分"},{"start":81.281,"end":105.228,"text":"我們每一年有這些特考進來的公職人員轉進來我們都有名額空給他們對所以考卷部那邊2016、2022他其實都做了一些調整而且科目有減少我們辦公室去做了一下我們去考卷部查了一下人數我們發現人數好像報考人數有逐漸下降的狀況不曉得這個狀況不曉得部長會這邊有沒有講過"},{"start":111.957,"end":136.818,"text":"還是我們查到的資料是不是正確?這是特考,這是特考的部分所以這個部分人數好像越來越少對不對不曉得有沒有什麼輔導的機制可以讓他們考去報考這個所謂特考的人數這個輔導在國安部就有做"},{"start":137.918,"end":151.686,"text":"國安部只要報名 國安部有一個機制就是利用時間來給他們考試 科目讀取輔導這幾年考試入局率還是蠻高的那這個人數有可能跟退伍人數有關係退伍人數少 他報考自然就會少"},{"start":152.799,"end":175.695,"text":"對 因為好像前一陣子有報導媒體有報導那個南投之光我不曉得主委知不知道這個事情就是他們好像有輔導一些質押的轉弦然後可以考一些什麼像什麼監所的人員我覺得這是很好啦那是不是這個委員這邊可以 主委這邊可以針對這個部分可以提供這個所謂我們的這個退役的這些軍職的人員可以多一點這樣的機會"},{"start":183.052,"end":188.715,"text":"委員好 我是就學監事處處長池玉蘭跟您報告其實我們很鼓勵我們的退出一官兵能夠轉任公職所以我們在公職的輔導上面我們都有給他那個國營事業或者公職的一個就業輔導我們會給他一生有五萬塊的一個輔導的金利你去補習買參考書等等你只要去考公職我們都會給他補助那另外有關於我們還有一個退出一特考"},{"start":209.565,"end":235.138,"text":"每兩年有一次退出於特考其實我們都鼓勵我們很多的場合活動場合我們都鼓勵我們的退出於官兵能夠轉到我們的公職的路上我想因為軍職人員其實都蠻優秀的啦而且這幾年我發現公職人員報考都是一直在下降其實那個就是那邊的問題啦我也會去關鍵不過也希望一些我想非常優秀的軍職人員能夠繼續留在公職能夠繼續幫協助國家做一些協助"},{"start":238.38,"end":264.975,"text":"另外就是有關於比較屬於基金的部分可以看到我們那個收入的部分有一些受證的收入那受證的收入的部分其實我們有看到好像逐年有減少的狀況就受證的部分我不曉得針對受證的部分有沒有什麼因應可以增加受證的收入的部分"},{"start":265.717,"end":293.139,"text":"提高一些所謂的捐贈收入的部分這個我們在榮民榮捐基金會一直在注意這件事情因為這個對榮民榮捐的照顧也跟我們服務照顧處跟榮護處有關係我們希望能夠充分的運用地方社會的這些資源擴展一些外面的捐贈因為我看到好像我們有編了一些推廣"},{"start":294.721,"end":302.717,"text":"媒體政策或是業務宣導的一些費用,都編了大概400萬左右我不曉得這樣的成效有沒有什麼具體的成效"},{"start":306.207,"end":334.69,"text":"委員好,我是榮民榮業基金會秘書長跟委員報告,有關於榮民遺症部分其實我們在我們的董事會裡面也有提出就是說希望把我們相關的宣導製成圖卡在今年部分我們會到各榮家去做相關的活動也會把這些訊息提供給我們所有的榮家讓這些榮民在百年之後如果可以就把相關的這些遺症給我們基金會讓我們做妥善的運用,所以可以做善的循環"},{"start":335.35,"end":360.36,"text":"所以我們今年再積極地做這件事情好 OK OK因為我看到真的是有逐漸減少的一個趨勢啦也請這個主委這邊特別關注這個事情另外就是我看到你們的這個財務的報表的部分啦發現你們這個資息的部分很多其實都是存在定存裡面啦都是定存的資息的部分我想這個可能跟那個組織的章程可能有關係啦不過這幾年因為我想這個現在社會都很動盪嘛很多都這個"},{"start":361.861,"end":378.682,"text":"這個不管是股市啦其實都不是很穩定啦也許啦也許這個定存是一個不錯的方法不過呢因為通膨最近實在蠻嚴重的我想針對這個部分有沒有可能做一些調整讓這個定存的不再是這麼高的比例大概90幾%都是從定存的部分"},{"start":380.626,"end":408.028,"text":"各位我們基金會面的這個大概定存的金額大概是23億多那我們都選擇了這個利率比較高的包含這個地方的銀行還有郵局我們現在存放的地方大概六家的這些公庫銀行大概平均利率大概一年是1.7%所以比其他的郵局比其他的銀行都要來得高那我們也投資我們會裡面所屬事業單位的股票那年度面獲利的狀況也都超過2%所以基本上獲利是很穩定的"},{"start":408.388,"end":414.152,"text":"是 是 因為最近這個其實金融不是非常的穩定那本期也希望這個輔導會這邊還是密切觀察這個機器的一個狀況好 感謝謝謝 謝偉恩"}]}},{"id":"168342","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168342","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc722a3de5a60c271179dfcc871f89f4d358ce3249aa741ed410c48c7cb505eef785ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"10:09:42 - 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辦了之後不了了之所以 被提名人"},{"start":380.999,"end":392.848,"text":"你在這個此時此刻 你當然認為你過去的辦案 你是中規中矩啦我憑良心 我看到你的案子 不像習太昭這麼離譜可是非常重要一點 如果你真的有幸當上檢察總長 我覺得一定要把這樣的一個這麼濃厚的這種政治的色彩 一定要盡量盡量的降低"},{"start":406.878,"end":430.854,"text":"最近韓國有一個他們的司法改革嘛他其實他是要修憲啦他們的改革其中就是限縮檢察官的調查權為什麼呢他覺得從他們過去幾次的政爭也好政治事件也好檢察官的權力太大了檢察官一再的涉入政治鬥爭裡面"},{"start":432.833,"end":460.311,"text":"然後他們認為應該要現做檢察官檢察官其實我們因為時間關係其實有太多要請教你啦別說無限的抗告檢察官可以一直抗告一直抗告我們希望二審能夠抗告法院能夠直接做裁定這個我美中贊成原來司法院提出來的修正草案他們自為裁定就好大家就不要再有分別不要再抗告了對不對他們只要做確定的"},{"start":462.973,"end":485.895,"text":"那我請問一下我剛才特別提到像這個三中案作為一個前總統戰經全國嘛已經十幾年了十多年老想最近大家還討論的馬總統健康狀態說實在一個人十幾年這樣子的一個司法的這樣子追溯下來二審都無罪了結果說還要上訴"},{"start":487.503,"end":506.586,"text":"沒完沒了所以我要講的就是說我們檢察官握有太大的一個權利了真的太大的權利要羈押也是你不羈押也是你那個交保不交保也是你起不起訴也是你"},{"start":507.367,"end":526.719,"text":"你的新政已成 最後就會變成 尤其我們過去我剛談到有這麼多的一個根本跟政治有非常大關係 而且在選舉期間去辦這種案子辦了四年下來 什麼都沒有 選舉也選舉完了然後人民的權利也被你 也被你限縮了所以我真的一個期許 我認為啊雖然我是作為在野黨 但我認為你的狀況 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吃魚"},{"start":355.265,"end":371.901,"text":"就要吃台灣來的然後吃不管是吃台灣的鯛魚或者是吃台灣的鰻魚都是最高品質的是不是這一點可以拜託部長我想謝謝委員的這樣的一個建議特別是農民的這些建議我想我支持也認同這樣的一個想法"},{"start":372.341,"end":400.983,"text":"那後續我想我們不會只仰賴日本市場因為只要有任何的機會特別是吳國瑜的魚片的部分像新加坡也是一個很強的市場那我們會透過相關的實名展甚至於我們會啟動一些在現有的通路我們已經建立的通路之下將這個吳國瑜或其他的產品進到原來的通路系統那更快就有機會去做我想我們我會交待約束來做一個安排"},{"start":401.323,"end":404.646,"text":"就是這一點特別脈迫部長我想其實如果把這個市場一打開來搞不好到時候我們不夠賣對不對我們的鯛魚我們的鰻魚真的都非常非常的棒那另外呢我接下來想要問一下就是部長喔我其實發現農業部很用心在於數位化這一方面就是APP"},{"start":424.162,"end":436.873,"text":"那今年農業部1月上架了一個新的APP叫做農業數位整合服務那我對於這個農業部善用科技工具是很贊同那我想要請問一下部長您知道農業部目前有幾個APP嗎我想我並"},{"start":441.677,"end":464.481,"text":"並沒有記住這樣的一個APP的像素那針對您剛才講的這個部分那其實剛才現在最近上架的就是未來希望我們的天然災害的時候不需要因為有很多資料庫可以去做比對那也能夠減輕未來農民有沒有樣樣都跑到公所去拿到地基因為他也許前一年"},{"start":465.181,"end":481.433,"text":"簡化他的流程他前一年也許有地籍有資料了所以我們希望把我們現在所有資料串聯以後能夠供第一線的鄉公所去簡化他的一個程序部長我覺得這個利益良好因為我們現在在現場現在在不算頭"},{"start":484.035,"end":511.389,"text":"說實在很多人不會用APP 要公所特別請人去協助用APP我現在不理解的是我初步盤點 目前農業部有12個APP什麼棄作一把抓 豬場一把抓然後農業缺工好幫手 農務一把抓然後田邊好幫手 I plan等等說實在我也希望說部長是不是可以花點時間盤點一下有一些是不是能夠整合 因為"},{"start":514.778,"end":530.804,"text":"我每天都不舒服 我都不知道這到底對什麼 要用對什麼所以我相信喔 部長你看看這個 你也不知道要用對什麼這麼多 我最好是單一入口然後多樣的功能讓農民可以方便使用不然你十幾個喔"},{"start":532.096,"end":548.302,"text":"今天我就算一個一個問部長你也不知道怎麼用所以我相信喔這個是需要一點時間去整合就好像如果假設我問你說今天部長是農民想要APP整理農地作業紀錄你是要用IPLAN還是要用農務一把抓"},{"start":549.464,"end":575.027,"text":"這兩個系統都可以是它後面是連接的是 所以你不要給它兩個入口嘛你最好就是 欸 單一入口因為它其實功能是重疊的那你如果入口分散反而會降低使用的意願而且你再一個一個加 很麻煩欸所以我 我是希望說這個方向是正確的你要讓它跟上科技的時代簡化很多公務的這個流程甚至讓我們農民喔 可以"},{"start":575.748,"end":593.374,"text":"越來越方便使用但是這一點我是不是給部長一個建議因為這實在是使用者的困擾而且你知道嗎運營的成本也一定是會增墊高你們運營成本包括你說農地限地行動調查作業APP一年編920萬農業數位整合服務APP一年又編1272萬說實在加加起來你說十幾個十幾個GAP"},{"start":604.697,"end":627.242,"text":"加起來不少錢所以我也希望說是不是可以開源節流然後整合比較少的路口我不敢說一個啦但是十幾個你總是可以當size到可能三個四個比較主要的這樣子我覺得是不是能夠方便我們農民跟漁民來使用我想我們可以來檢討但是因為"},{"start":629.022,"end":654.728,"text":"同一個領域性質類時我覺得可以把它整合在一起但是像餘的跟蓄的有沒有當然那要分開我會針對這些APP本身把它分類那同性質的部分盡量能夠有一個統一的一個窗口因為它現在已經有人在用的時候要去轉換可能需要一點時間所以我想我會啟動一個專案的方式來做這個方面的處理好 特別拜託部長 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謝謝主席 我們有請貝提寧人請貝提寧人委員好是 貝提寧人許檢察官您好那麼今天這場同意權的審查我想這不是只是在審查一個人您個人本身而是在審查整個台灣的檢查體系我們究竟是要停留在過去"},{"start":33.052,"end":48.798,"text":"守舊的這種威權移序還是說我們要邁向真正的法治國家那我必須在這裡坦白的說我發現現在的檢查制度已經不是零星的個別問題而是它可能是涉及到一個整體系統性的失靈所以接下來我的問題可能會環繞在整個檢查權制度的問題然後也要就教您的看法"},{"start":54.62,"end":58.204,"text":"那我們知道其實現在台灣的檢查制度呢主要是採的是這個單偵查主體制度所以檢察官他同時握有偵查權還有起訴權甚至他可能會實質的影響到審判的這樣的能力那麼這個在比較法上面其實可以說是相對來說比較老舊的一個過度集權的設計因此可能會發生濫權的機率極高"},{"start":78.664,"end":92.472,"text":"那麼以韓國為例我們知道在這個他們從2022年一直到最近2026年的3月份他們基本上對於整個檢查權的制度進行大幅度的修改那麼甚至已經廢除了檢察官的調查權的制度規定終結了韓國78年來的這種偵查起訴一把抓的歷史明確走向偵查與起訴分立"},{"start":102.638,"end":129.479,"text":"限縮檢查權限以及強化外部監督的這個方向但是呢台灣我們看到我們的檢查改革制度幾乎是原地踏步都沒有任何的進展所以我在這裡想請教被提名人您是否認同目前台灣檢查制度的這種一手偵查一手起訴的制度其實已經導致了權力的過度集中我們是不是未來可能可以參考像是日本韓國等等國家納入司法"},{"start":132.341,"end":141.509,"text":"警察為偵查主體檢察官就回歸到起訴的專業還是您個人認為其實現在制度是毫無問題請您回答"},{"start":144.241,"end":171.374,"text":"謝謝委員我目前認為我們檢察官為偵查主題沒有問題然後但是因為工作量負荷很重所以我們現在是在檢討的是有哪些案子可以免於解送可以在警察這一端就在報告檢察官同意之後可以在當地就做處理這樣可以免除警察的移送檢察官的一個夜間的訊問這是可以改良"},{"start":171.994,"end":173.142,"text":"但是韓國的這個制度"},{"start":174.781,"end":197.086,"text":"我們再觀察因為真的嗎委員你真的相信這個偵查權移給警察你真的睡得著覺嗎有沒有客觀性獨立性以及資源分配的問題每個國家的國情或有不同但是呢不得不說其實日本韓國的制度的確是有我國值得參考的地方那麼我剛剛問的是說檢察官會不會有濫權有權力過度集中的問題我覺得這個議題其實跟檢察官的工作量的負荷"},{"start":204.127,"end":229.348,"text":"沒有太大直接的相關因為我們知道其實現在的這個圖片就是大家社會上面對於司法不獨立然後司法有濫權的問題其實很大一部分可能都是因為檢查制度的關係所造成人民的一個印象那我覺得這個部分其實是值得檢討的或許我們不需要就是像這個日本韓國完全都是以"},{"start":230.048,"end":247.74,"text":"司法警察作為最主要的偵查主體但是未來有沒有可能納入相關的案件可以有所謂的雙偵查主體的這個制度我覺得這個是可以思考的這個部分的話可能邀請檢察總長假設如果您未來被提名人有幸擔任檢察總長的話我覺得應該要去嚴正的思考這個問題好那接下來我要談的就是說您在自傳當中曾經有提到過就是說檢察官的辦案不應該只是追求定罪率更應該要有勇氣去"},{"start":260.568,"end":283.275,"text":"認錯和糾錯可是我們要怎麼樣去認錯跟糾錯呢這個部分的話是本席想請教的首先呢您說這個追求定罪率不是檢察官辦案的一個主要目標那麼可是追求定罪率不是法務部向來的主張嗎那麼如果不追求定罪率的話那麼是不是未來檢察官他可能濫刑起訴或是待遇起訴的問題會更為嚴重"},{"start":287.526,"end":307.739,"text":"報告委員 你要相信我 我當檢察官的時候從來不看報表因為我認為辦案的正確性就是定罪率是隨著你的努力他自己就會上去 那有什麼好看的而且每個月的新案子那麼多 我沒有時間去看這個東西我的意思是檢察官不要只有看到那個定罪率 而是看到"},{"start":309.361,"end":323.795,"text":"當事人的人權公平審判的機會要給當事人有充分講話的機會有利跟不利的多要加以注意這樣才能夠做正確的判斷了解謝謝貝庭銘仁您的說法但是不可否認的"},{"start":324.696,"end":340.004,"text":"日本的定罪率是高達九成以上台灣的定罪率其實普遍來講大概就七八成像一些國安案件的定罪率它更低所以我要講就是說是這個部分的話也是值得思考整體來講不會只有七八成我們也是九成向來整個法務部的主張"},{"start":340.644,"end":342.705,"text":"現在我們看到檢察官幾乎沒有退場機制現行的評鑑制度可能收了很多案件但是他成立的比例是微乎其微"},{"start":362.792,"end":374.288,"text":"這代表說這個制度可能根本不是一個監督機制而是他更像是一個庇護的一個制度就保護檢察官那麼所以請問被庭免人如果說一個檢察官他濫刑起訴不起訴或是濫權上訴那麼幾乎"},{"start":378.013,"end":402.331,"text":"到最后都不会有任何的惩处那么人民要如何相信司法呢更何况就是说我们现在知道我们因为要推动就是呃人民这个司法信任度的提高啊然后人民参与司法所以现在已经有国民法官法就是国民去参与刑事审判法那未来在侦查的部分您是否支持我们也可以参考像是日本的做法制定检查审查会的专法"},{"start":403.132,"end":409.556,"text":"我們可以強化淘汰制度,也就是說讓人民也可以去參與有關於檢察官的這個檢察的這個總統作為"},{"start":415.773,"end":432.878,"text":"有關於監督檢察官我們本來就有評鑑委員會我們還有懲戒法院檢察院的彈劾這些都是在監督檢察官是不是依法在執行職務我們現在個案已經很多就是有人提出來檢舉我們會去調查"},{"start":436.019,"end":463.197,"text":"但是事實上他的退場機制他的監督機制還是不夠延遲這一年來有四個檢察官已經被撤職了就是累積下來一年內有四位我們給他調整職務了所以我們是有退場機制不是沒有你現在支不支持未來如果說可以讓人民也可以參與刑事的審查制度"},{"start":464.48,"end":468.524,"text":"本來人民就可以申請個案評鑑啊您知道現在法務部本身有在推動這個法嗎沒有 應該是沒有您回去好好看你的立法計畫吧徐檢察官你還擔任法務部次長兩年吧 就每一年的立法計畫裡面都有這個法"},{"start":488.21,"end":511.488,"text":"所以您看看是不是支持國民參與檢查審查法這個是你們自己的立法計畫接下來我還要再問一個就是社會上最有感的一個問題就是有關於淨檢文化那理論上偵查應該不公開但是為了保護被告的名譽避免輿論的審判 維護司法公正但是現在我們看到的情況是什麼"},{"start":513.951,"end":531.63,"text":"搜索還沒有結束,筆錄還沒有做完,特定媒體就已經掌握了這個相關的細節,甚至連偵查的方向都精準的掌握。那麼邢太昭總長說,其實偵查不公開很難做到。我想請問您,您認為偵查不公開是不是真的很難做到,無法落實,所以它只是一個訊示規定?"},{"start":532.971,"end":552.279,"text":"我們要承認他很難但是我們還是會依規定必要的時候一定要立案偵辦然後事實要對外說明我們還是會努力的去偵辦我們過去這些年裡面有沒有曾經有兩個檢察官是因為違反偵查不公開的原則而被處分的沒有"},{"start":552.699,"end":575.2,"text":"沒有所以這代表什麼代表也有可能另外你現在內部的監督機制其實出了很大的問題所以本先生想請教就是說假設您有幸上任你是否可以承諾就是未來可以建立偵查的存取追蹤機制如果說一旦有發生外洩追查到人或是對洩密者可以進行實質的懲處這個我們可以列入考慮"},{"start":580.48,"end":590.704,"text":"因為有些看起來有些很多是技術面的問題麻煩是可以再請我最後一分鐘的時間我會快快講我認為說偵查不公開的問題非常重要也希望被提名如果您有事上的話應該要好好去處理這個問題然後最後一個問題就是有關於就是說因為您曾經擔任過國安局副局長但時間並不長其實只有九個月的時間"},{"start":607.291,"end":614.992,"text":"那么我想请问您,您认为国安局和检察官之间的两者关系是如何?两者的职权逻辑思维是相同的吗?"},{"start":616.755,"end":624.939,"text":"我想他們的職責是不一樣的一個是犯罪偵查 一個是情報的收集跟研析那不一樣 可是我們辦理國安所以就是因為兩個的體系 他的職權邏輯思維是並不一樣所以基本上是屬於一個緊張對立的關係那麼就辦理這個相關的國安的這個偵查案件不會是對立"},{"start":642.387,"end":657.374,"text":"根據為導向 為主可是我們可以看到在過去檢察官所偵辦的案件當中雖然說起訴跟被告的人數是逐年攀升可是他的定罪率以及定罪被告的人數卻是這個看起來是 曲線是下滑的所以我想請問被提名人以你過去的官員經驗是否會影響到你對偵查發動門檻的認定你將來會不會傾向採取的是"},{"start":668.36,"end":672.284,"text":"用預防性偵查取代證據導向的偵查你怎麼樣確保偵查體系不會國安思維化不會被國安思維滲透"},{"start":681.052,"end":709.055,"text":"我們國安專組的檢察官在偵辦國安案件的時候都非常非常的等於是精準的來蒐集這些證據但是先天上他是有困難的他是有困難的但是我們檢察官還是不會放棄那我們二審對國安案件他也有一個確定判決的延期的一個小組也會把所有的可能被被法院不接受的一些判決我們會把它相關的資料都蒐集起來再做延期"},{"start":709.295,"end":724.065,"text":"本席非常期待就是假設您之後擔任有幸擔任檢察總長的話還是要抓住就檢察官最重要的職權就要以證據當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然"},{"start":737.253,"end":738.259,"text":"好 那你上午就問到這邊好 謝謝好 謝謝董事長李委員"}]}},{"id":"168328","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168328","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc79da3940ad4ce4522fa1e45401cc1f5858ce3249aa741ed4141711be454d84e9e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃仁","委員發言時間":"09:55:43 - 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也沒有人跟你說這個很重要要去查還是說這個"},{"start":239.554,"end":254.376,"text":"我們會觀測因為我們聯機小組也會開會就是發現輿情上面有什麼樣的反應這個就是我說的就是就會開會然後開會就告訴你說我有去查查就這樣子可是跟我剛剛講的那個民眾的距離很遙遠"},{"start":255.834,"end":276.602,"text":"我們兩個最遙遠的距離就是我都覺得有在漲你都說有在查所以我們就會跟聯基小組一起去查所以的確我們這次也進行了這些稽查的工作公平會剛剛也是被問很多啦我當然我也了解你的苦衷有聯合漲價什麼等等但不管啦我上次已經跟公平會說過你那個動作樣式還是要擺出來嘛"},{"start":281.405,"end":290.49,"text":"我們已經有立案調查了針對塑膠袋這個部分那釐清的部分我們也去了解跟工會進行初步了解我們專關確定是因為釐清昨天也是很多委員在問因為你光我們台電中油"},{"start":296.954,"end":315.927,"text":"從公民會的執掌裡面我們會關切末端的那個交易狀況那就是供貨供貨的確現在出現了不確定性然後價格上漲所以在利清的業者部分他們只能目前大概是鼓勵這個會員或是相關的同業或是買方去規劃一下那個工程的進度那個經濟部應該說利清是夠的"},{"start":317.984,"end":333.966,"text":"現在到存貨啦現在可以供應到五月底六月份這個台塑它已經在因為它到五月底是OK的嘛所以它六月份的部分它已經在國際間想辦法要進口了"},{"start":335.011,"end":353.337,"text":"好啦就是我相信各位都很努力啦那再順便請教經濟度問題就是說我們現在的話呢你也去拜託中油對不對世青要提前開路也協調台塑化台聚維持一些供應好那看起來塑膠袋你認為這個供應量應該是足夠"},{"start":355.498,"end":374.693,"text":"可是我的看法是說如果我們上游是有料的真的穩住了中游也都能中間的中中游也真的夠然後生產的出來下游如果也真的通我就搞不懂就是說我們為什麼還要緊急打電話專線臨時煤核點撞"},{"start":378.293,"end":399.23,"text":"來補這個破洞報告委員因為我們這個平價專案是從這個禮拜才開始啟動那中油的料已經給這個台塑了那台塑應該他做了以後明天就可以開始出貨所以這筆貨是平價的我們會慢慢到生產端然後鋪貨出去但是呢"},{"start":400.071,"end":421.538,"text":"因為這些中東事情開始發生以後呢在最末端大家會有一些預期心理是不是可能會有比較緊俏的狀況所以這種狀況就需要我們趕快去關懷調度我比較喜歡從數位科技的角度來看我剛點了這幾個問題就是說在行政院物價肯定小組裡面這些都是參與的單位嘛"},{"start":423.118,"end":442.717,"text":"所以我是覺得那整個上中下有整個戰情室整個這些資訊的通透到了我末端的供應上中下有這些的資料information我覺得行政院不管是哪一個部會要去負責你們就要 不然就是經濟部嘛我們產發署去負責把這個系統對不對"},{"start":447.116,"end":467.853,"text":"知道我在講什麼 邱署長應該知道我在講什麼我覺得這個很重要 因為我們已經喊了那麼多年嘛 是吧所以我覺得這件事情是不是從現在開始做了然後以後就是比較不會說我上游好像也有 中游也都夠了 然後剛剛委員一堆啊我的攤販 小吃 夜市 商場 那就是沒有了"},{"start":468.433,"end":488.248,"text":"對不對那你要跨到部會去農業部會是還有啦我說整個部會嘛行政院是一個整體嘛那你農業部衛財衛福部的醫財這些等等也都是好那我想這個經濟部就請回了各位這些請回休息一下我想請這個農業部跟這個衛福部就是"},{"start":493.962,"end":512.797,"text":"在我們現在這個資料裡面在農業部我是覺得這一次有去做一些預警對不對然後有去做一些的這樣子的補貼那我覺得衛福部這邊建立了醫材放醫通報但是我們也動資了健保安全基我是覺得說這種補貼到什麼時候會結束因為價格還是要穩下來嘛"},{"start":517.761,"end":534.859,"text":"我們很多醫材的一線的同仁也去反映就是我叫不到貨然後一堆我的看病好像也要漲等等這一個200億的健保安全準備金各位請衛福部說明一下"},{"start":537.43,"end":562.616,"text":"謝謝委員我先補充喔在我們在3月23的時候衛福部這邊就發現到我們在相關的藥品醫材還有包材的部分可能會受到衝擊所以其實3月23衛福部就先發文給經濟部請產發署協助我們能夠穩定我們在相關的醫療用品醫療衛材前端的原料供應這個部分先跟委員做報告那委員這邊提到的200億的安全準備金是準備其實是去年在我們的相關任性的議題裡面"},{"start":563.576,"end":587.79,"text":"準備說如果因為關稅或者是在這一次的因為戰爭等等的原因造成我們健保一些藥品或者是醫材必須要調整藥價的時候他可能會有必須要有一個準備不然的話超過我們的總額那這一塊當然我們現在已經啟動就是說假如這個藥品或者是醫材他有明確的這個成本上升那廠商這邊的他的價格必須要去調整我們的健保給付價的時候"},{"start":588.07,"end":613.562,"text":"我想有一些的就是說這些安全準備金的使用的方式因為當時是關稅嘛還沒有戰爭的爆發所以我想說這些的用途上面因為有些醫界的人是在所以這個部分也在跟我們補充就是說這個價格但是在這個部分也不能隨便就是去價格高薪多少就多少所以在健保這邊要重新去調整如果必須重新調整幾付價格的話就是我認為要照顧到病人對不對我們醫護人員"},{"start":616.264,"end":637.283,"text":"我們現在其實也謝謝產發署的協助我們現在我們都在媒合我們相關的醫材這邊那其實有些醫材它的這個原物料它的供應它的庫存因為有時間不夠沒關係你再提書面的報告給我們我用書面的什麼我們這個書面的這個健保的這個安全的準備金我們會那我們提供我們的做法制度這些"},{"start":640.166,"end":663.924,"text":"第一個農業波子剩一個問題就是說剛剛我們講那個肥料實名登記那我也請不用回答我就回去調查一下再給我書面就好就有些農民的使用他覺得有點蘿莉巴縮那看看是不是說強制使用跟回饋使用這裡頭有沒有什麼樣子的要改善之處好不好再書面報告給我這樣子 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我要講的是後面 你的一支二 一支三也要趕快出來對 那這個部分我們也會用我們的一個新市政的基金加速來去辦理"},{"start":265.806,"end":271.489,"text":"否則這個目前的一個僑科它的整個聯外系統交通聯外造成問題要積極不要太保守你看剛剛市政府跟內政部還有國科會還有交通部那麼積極可以把這個交流道創造出來"},{"start":281.694,"end":307.495,"text":"我覺得喬科我們也要做更積極的準備那今天還有另外一個很重要的議題就是我們是永續行人安全從113年到117年的這個計畫那當然總預算沒有交付總預算沒有審查當然影響到這個計畫我們希望剛剛劉部長講到的校園往外擴的這個計畫我也會在左營跟南子的校園來爭取那包含我在上任以後對於新莊一路這個"},{"start":308.555,"end":329.29,"text":"這個蔡署長在當蔡局長的時候也都陪我會看過啦那希望我們在今年度趕快把這些路數的這些移植然後包含這個道路的人行道的這些這些工程趕快把它完善好那個概念新莊一路的概念就跟通學步道"},{"start":330.431,"end":348.289,"text":"變成同學路廊一樣當內政部花了很多經費在直向南北向的人行道卻沒有東西向的人行道往原道很可惜所以當時就這樣子爭取那未來繼續來爭取這些校園、校園通道"},{"start":351.952,"end":374.515,"text":"往社區的這些友善行人環境我覺得這是必要我們要極力的來爭取的另外也要再跟部長請命老宅延售經費只有50億當然遠遠不足當然我們總預算也期待可以跟在野黨可以好好的合作希望總預算趕快交付甚至希望我們的新興計畫"},{"start":375.596,"end":397.414,"text":"有機會可以針對老宅延壽不足的地方我們可以再加強我講的就是國貿社區那部長可能也跟我一樣非常了解國貿社區的需求上次也在委員會裡面也答應說要研議國貿社區的老宅延壽或許部長會用不同的名稱不同的經費來支持國貿社區的這個"},{"start":400.736,"end":411.161,"text":"他的外牆瓷磚脫落導致行人安全也有問題行人安全不是只有路面我想這個瓷磚希望部長也可以允諾我們盡速來研議來處理謝謝 請部長回應"},{"start":416.25,"end":442.509,"text":"那個老宅延售因為只有50億各方都想要爭取這個經費所以目前我們第一期開始就是以四到六樓的公寓或六樓以下那國貿社區是12層樓第一個還有就是要全體住戶要同意真的很大的困難那我們來看一下就是說如果可以用這個都市更新的方式可以試試看但是也是要請這個委員或者是地方的民意代表來幫忙那個住戶要同意"},{"start":443.169,"end":454.575,"text":"如果租屋沒有同意的話,恐怕這個經費補助下去反而會適得其反我想除了都跟老宅之外,必須再找一條路出來我們再跟國土署、再跟內政部共同來研議,謝謝好,謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"168336","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168336","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7d13a57413a8bd05e9dfcc871f89f4d358ce3249aa741ed41c9a64353dbdea2ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"10:02:28 - 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雖然工廠的改善 工廠的技術沒有那麼困難但是主要是人的溝通 剛才大家都說了要不然這麼好的界位 坦白說 我們對方包括里長或是管理員 絕對一堆提案上來為什麼沒有 不是管理政府不夠打拚"},{"start":114.975,"end":122.322,"text":"是因為地方上的協調跟交通絕對是要有共識如果有共識,這經濟要下去已經都很快了所以要把委員講的部分應該是比較大的難題是這個地方啦,要拜託民意代表要報三天你講的話,重點就在這裡啦"},{"start":133.053,"end":144.282,"text":"有個好個結尾,要不然北省就留他,覺得說,跟你要做人性道,跟我們家外面本來就都很丟臉,跟你沒帶沒錢,要去中央請人家來做跟我們家一個人要放摩托車也不行,要放威卡也不行"},{"start":150.988,"end":157.671,"text":"這就是立法會的難處在這裡啦所以立法會都會認為說,你不要做就好了因為本身是怎麼來的呢?因為這裡的經費重金要到400億就是有地方政府,他有覺得說我建一地方要改善的年薪度來提出界外來領中央"},{"start":178.588,"end":193.432,"text":"協定和可以有經緯也有可能說因為我們的交通部發現到每一個地方他們都有這個交通的問題、連線道的問題、外線車號的問題主動補助地方政府部來補充立委答謝"},{"start":203.596,"end":216.108,"text":"我跟委員報告,我們現在都做三個計劃,一個就是永續提升人行安全計劃,一個叫做提升道路品質計劃,一個叫做生活圈道路交通系統計劃,這是市區道路啦,有一個計劃啦,在我們加以持家,一個是5.64億,一個是7.67億,一個是6.92億,"},{"start":225.629,"end":241.133,"text":"不聽 我也代表嘉義市跟嘉義市政府感謝你們對嘉義市的保重因為嘉義市政府 包括北省 包括里長 嘉義縣都很認真很發表 都可以說"},{"start":245.254,"end":265.91,"text":"建築我們中央的經費,回去建設交通,跟營運就更好現在我告訴你就是說,我這樣看我的資料看,我的僱傭有的改善,又不是在治安委報的裡面我自己的僱傭,很好,最好沒有減少,沒錯嗎?"},{"start":274.721,"end":280.565,"text":"大安匯報啦是不是請主席回答這不是只有硬體改善就可以處理啊包括軟體改善也有啊"},{"start":293.354,"end":320.144,"text":"我的意思就是說,是不是正好認真,中央好這個錢,是不是要怎麼改善,還要好我是不是請高通部的處長,跟你回答一下好不好好來好啊,委員報告一下市長,你有看到這個,你會怕嗎?高利貸是一個非常小的社區喔,你知道"},{"start":321.124,"end":337.594,"text":"六萬人的交通雖然台北我們大家都騎摩托車那麼多但是交通的安全對電運是非常重要何況你用這個經費來改善的時候你看有80年、11年、12年、13年、14年哇 委員報告齁 我們有看到這個現象啦你有沒有騎一條"},{"start":349.895,"end":351.52,"text":"人數的增加對我們來說都是很..."},{"start":356.434,"end":376.505,"text":"很心疼 沒辦法接受所以這個數目的增加我們不是把它看成是一個數字而已 冰冷的數字是覺得很沉痛所以我們歷次 尤其最近大概都有跟嘉義市政府相關的交通單位或警察單位大家討論如何來降低那當然這個情勢還在還沒 要怎麼做"},{"start":380.667,"end":404.643,"text":"幾個面向嘛 工程的面向當然要來看相關的改善另外一個執法面也是很重要警察的執法最後一個就是要多多的宣導那這部分我們會跟嘉義市相關的單位來找看他到底是什麼地方有問題來共同來解決因為說實在你看到這個掃利的時候我認為應該是"},{"start":411.308,"end":413.929,"text":"沒有這麼嚴重,我看的時候,我會覺得說,我的資料是不是不對?我會想這樣"},{"start":420.359,"end":431.506,"text":"想說跟我們有改善跟我們市政府也有認真發表來補充你要補充是不是請市長再跟您報告一下因為我們領域假期期的市區的道路設計可能有一些重放這是要很大的改善另外也要跟委員 委員非常關心這也包括假期期可能人來人往的觀光客也很多所以出現這麼多的交通事故其他的補充我請市長跟您做一個補充好啦"},{"start":450.257,"end":450.277,"text":"市長來"},{"start":480.197,"end":491.705,"text":"所以我們會給嘉義市政府一個建議就是說那個全市的一些路口,包含一些道路比較寬的地方可能要做整體的檢討因為署長跟部長本事在這,覺得我們是要解決問題不是要去求求說市政府做得不好或什麼因為我的雇傭,我的家族,我希望交通會更安全好"},{"start":506.155,"end":526.437,"text":"因為每一個民運代表都有這個責任,要如何去共享,要交通更好所以我希望我們的手機也好,手機也好,交通也好可以提出你們的專業,如果有力氣,都有三天,因為我覺得"},{"start":527.478,"end":542.985,"text":"在這裡,相信每一個立委都沒有分什麼擋牌只是他請主、他自己去,會溝通、會更安全、更好當然是在你未來的時候,我們請的訴訟,會正經整頓到自己去"},{"start":549.628,"end":552.853,"text":"當然要改善不是一天兩天的,但是我希望在中央的專業,可以下放到地方的政府,這樣你們改善的錢,夠有意義啦"},{"start":565.584,"end":571.588,"text":"因為在這兩年的時候,我們如果看到寶座好,還是出去那裡看好因為看到車禍的時候,像庇護島,有的開車的時候,有四個門"},{"start":580.513,"end":594.558,"text":"他自己開了,覺得這世界一樣,你看這是新聞,這是比較有意義的事情,這是開車的問題,還是我們社會的問題,這也很要緊,因為每一項改變的結尾,就是買車走路也好,開車也好,騎摩托車也好,大家都要硬頂,"},{"start":609.787,"end":624.437,"text":"小心,在這個過程,我認為有需要,我們的單位在此去配合地方政府,剛才我來補充說的,跟你們這400億的經費,是你們主動給地方,還是地方要請出,補充的回答就是,地方有各種問題,要幾位,幾位才有辦法請出這些錢,"},{"start":639.247,"end":646.054,"text":"所以我們也多多對自己的關心和協助因為我覺得在這段時間這七分鐘要去探討這些問題探討不了,但是事後的時候"},{"start":657.907,"end":677.679,"text":"本席會再教你來探討一下未來要改善更好,尤其我們的學校、旁邊的年輕人,我相信教育區有幾間都改善了很好,要不然還需要,很好,還要更好,以上"}]}},{"id":"168326","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168326","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7352558f9f17b993afa1e45401cc1f585ce3311c87f2344399c8b0e28f4b914155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"09:47:32 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這個是親南向國家的語言 像越南啦 印尼我們找不到那舉個例子來講 我們有進到另外一家 就是說這個台北市立的聯合醫院 它有提供這個新住民的友善門診之外呢它有外語同意查詢服務 比如說它的外語同意服務 它有印尼語 越南語 甚至還有緬甸語"},{"start":364.289,"end":367.41,"text":"那我不曉得說我們榮總有沒有提供這個線上的這個外語的同意服務我們不曉得因為他那個還有時段喔所以這個的話我想說榮總是不是來參考一下那另外呢還有就是說我有看到有新竹縣衛生局所主導的北區醫療網其實他有結合醫療同意資源呢推出了新著名就醫手指書"},{"start":388.054,"end":396.437,"text":"這個是就醫的小幫手我想這種種都可以來提供服務那當然那個剛剛我們院長有提到說我們現在有手機隨時可以做翻譯可是翻譯是不是準確不知道可是我是覺得像這個北區醫療網他所提供的這個新住民就醫手指數他從掛號篇診斷篇到領藥篇他都有非常清楚的這個指示比如說我們舉個例子來講我們畫面上顯示的是越南語的部分你看掛號篇他有"},{"start":417.484,"end":426.614,"text":"Step 1 Step 2就算你聽不懂這個中文不是很理解在掛號的時候他就直接在這個上面就說請問你要掛號嗎請問你是初診嗎是或否請填寫初診單字類"},{"start":432.481,"end":459.967,"text":"他都有這個我是覺得應該是還蠻好用的所以我是在想說為了新住民跟外籍人士的這個禁用性我覺得有很多的這個小小的一些指導我覺得都很需要那我們知道說當然我們有專業的這個同意人員可是我們在想說如果再給他們多一點輔助的話對這個新住民跟外籍人士的這個禁用性呢可以有很大的這個幫助"},{"start":461.047,"end":475.089,"text":"真的非常感謝委員今天我下午回去就交待同仁處理一定要讓他放在很明顯的地方讓我們新住民的好朋友容易找到榮總因為我們找不到服務專線一定要很快找到OK好以上謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"168324","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168324","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc74dc2ab61aa577877d16b10bbffbc7f67ce3311c87f2344397b10ae65e3cca9285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"09:38:28 - 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謝謝委員然後我們覺得運動員是經濟運動發展的核心那部長推動那個亞奧運協會運動員委員會的選舉方式產生那我覺得這是一個可以讓運動員選出自己喜歡認同的運動員代表"},{"start":166.335,"end":187.942,"text":"那也比較能夠為他們相關權益發言那另外協會也可以透過選舉產生的運動員委員會來聽到現役運動員的心聲跟想法所以這個改革本席是肯定的那希望部長繼續努力讓協會跟現役運動員間有更好的良性互動跟信任那另外我想請教一下關於人力不足的問題"},{"start":189.122,"end":216.061,"text":"今天部長報告如何落實全民體育但是我們運動部以及全民體育運動署的能力是不是足夠呢目前?甘委員您報告,那我們目前運動部的話禁用率為76.5%到年底禁用率為76.5%那全民運動署年底的禁用率為64.3%那整體的禁用率為73.3%那目前運動部的缺額大概多少?"},{"start":219.171,"end":223.582,"text":"74人那那個全民運動署呢?大概去了多少?"},{"start":225.014,"end":251.232,"text":"40人40人齁其實也算比例還算蠻高的啦對不對那我想請教齁那運動部齁這個今年1月有說齁幾乎每一天都在職缺有職缺在公告上網齁但各單位都有缺人的情況那希望加速來領補齁那現在三個月過去我剛才看稍微有改善嘛對不對比當時稍微有改善那部長你覺得多久才能夠把人力補齊呢"},{"start":252.793,"end":281.375,"text":"大概需要多少時間跟委員您報告首先很感謝您對於我們運動部還有全民運動署的人力的這個重視那當然我覺得如果就我評估的話可能還需要三四年三四年是不是應該是如果人力因為還有那個高考分發這樣高考分發當然我覺得部長其實點到一個問題因為運動部剛成立實際上確實有很多的地方是有一些結構性因素要調整改變"},{"start":282.256,"end":311.685,"text":"那成立運動部是總統賴清德的重要政見那當時把全民運動師擴大編制員而變成全民運動署那外界其實當時就有擔心是不是可以找到足夠的專業人才我還記得那時候人事行政總署官員就曾經說過目前文官體系並沒有那麼多相關專業的人所以以所謂現在專業人才的那個所謂的破耳來看的話其實是找不到這麼多人就現階段找不到這麼多人"},{"start":312.025,"end":329.911,"text":"但是既然已經升格為新部人力缺口這麼大那剛剛部長說要3到4年才能夠把這些專業人力的補齊的話我希望腳步還是要加快一點啦那包括培育人才然後去增補人才這個部分你有能力你才能夠好好做運動不該做的業務嘛對不對"},{"start":332.172,"end":348.355,"text":"跟委員報告是的我們也希望說在現行的狀況下的話確實運動部跟全民運動署的這個相對人意確實業務比較繁忙一點是好那接下來想請教一下關於教練待遇的問題那在去年教文委員"},{"start":349.256,"end":368.176,"text":"討論到教練的待遇的問題的時候你那時候有承諾要統整C級 B級 A級的教練還有初級 中級 高級 國家級的專任運動教練證來瞭解他們現行的待遇那請問這個評估做出來了沒有那結論是什麼 有沒有改善的時程"},{"start":369.217,"end":391.118,"text":"跟委員您報告那目前C級B級A級還有初級中級高級國家級這樣的專任運動教練以及這個協會這邊的證照其實我們一直都有在做評估但確實期程還沒有訂定出來的原因也跟剛剛這個委員提到的這個體育班分工因為我們還是要清楚的知道專任運動教練後續的這一個"},{"start":394.401,"end":411.737,"text":"工作可能會弱在哪裡那確實這個會是一個知識體大的比較複雜的問題所以我們也希望說會與體育班的議題一同來去做評估我覺得基本上一樣是希望部里的腳步要加快因為事實上"},{"start":412.498,"end":429.817,"text":"社会对我们运动部有这么大的期许现在也变成升级一个部会那教练的待遇问题只是长久的问题但是经过新的部会的话希望能够来去改变这件事那比方说现在教练跟老师是双轨制嘛"},{"start":430.017,"end":457.534,"text":"那教練是從170新年起那老師是190那光起薪教練就比老師要低那教練又分剛剛前面那幾個分級之後那除了國家級比照教授那基層教練是沒有鑑別度的那無論初級、中級、高級的專任運動教練專業家級都是同一個數字那也缺乏所謂的那個差異化那對於肌力晉升的這件事情可能就會比較弱一點點"},{"start":458.314,"end":482.403,"text":"那如果沒有長期穩定的專業教授專業優秀的教練的話那其實就不容易培養出優秀的選手所以這個部分我也希望部長能夠把它放在你們的評估裡面那真的是腳步還是要加快一點就是我看應該等不到三四年好不好這個應該不會這麼久就盡快那另外我也要跟部長討論一下學校教練的問題因為"},{"start":483.783,"end":497.276,"text":"上週我也質詢過教育部同樣的問題在教育歷程裡面運動教育當然是非常重要的一環不管是培養國手還是學能跟全能養成現代對運動也越來越重視"},{"start":498.737,"end":515.939,"text":"可是運動渣跟教育現場是密不可分其中關鍵角色就教練嘛對不對可是現在我又得到很多反應有很多老師他是燃燒自己在帶校隊帶體育機優或者專長的學生為什麼說是燃燒自己呢因為按照現行的規定"},{"start":516.96,"end":539.448,"text":"教師兼任校隊訓練工作只能用社團老師的名義那每週只可以減售一到兩節課那我在台北市又遇到很多的陳情國中專任教師一個禮拜基本收課時數是18節但兼校隊訓練的老師每週基本收課時數仍然高達16到17節可是他除了基本收課之外老師帶學生"},{"start":540.188,"end":566.985,"text":"早晚午休假日寒暑假的訓練工作那就算我們不去看誰他花的專業的心力備課的心力或是跟家長溝通等等關於時數來講就每週實際工作量是高達30節課以上甚至有些老師說他為了帶校隊體育學生陪學生的時間還超過自己家的小孩那這其實已經不是個案是制度問題我想請問一下像這種狀況我不知道那個運動部這邊部長"},{"start":569.867,"end":573.612,"text":"你有得到相關的反應嗎?那目前部裡面打算怎麼去解決這個問題呢?"},{"start":575.283,"end":598.553,"text":"跟委員您報告那這個確實是我們得到非常多的這個相關的澄清那這個確實也跟教育部我們兩個部會一直在跨部會去探討這個部分該怎麼去解決這個問題就如同委員您重視的這個學校教練以及老師這一塊確實因為我自己也身為這個大學老師確實也會遇到類似的事情那我們當然希望說不管是在這個國中國小"},{"start":600.094,"end":616.087,"text":"高中這樣老師能夠在上課的時數可以得以被保障那我想這個都是我們未來與教育部很重要的這個探討跨部會的合作我覺得部長就是麻煩跟這個教育部一同延伸改善指導啦因為說真的"},{"start":616.787,"end":634.664,"text":"你不可能一直靠老師燃燒自己來去支撐整個關於體育方面的工作所以這部分麻煩部長一下那最後我還是再提一下就是台中有個國小的教練他2024年底遭到揭發對於我們國小的球員伸出狼爪"},{"start":635.385,"end":649.653,"text":"那檢方已經日前有第三波癥結那從制度面檢視這個事情那這個教練是典型的性犯罪慣犯其實他在擔任教練之前已經兩度因為猥褻男童遭判刑但獲得緩刑對不對"},{"start":651.374,"end":665.149,"text":"沒錯吧可是他已經有猥褻招判刑的紀錄為什麼還能夠在2019年以無給職助理教練進入校園並且在2020年取得中華民國棒球協會的C級教練證"},{"start":668.012,"end":692.137,"text":"那這樣的一個所謂的取得證照的一個過程部長覺得有沒有什麼制度上可以去防止這樣的漏洞呢?跟委員您報告我們上任之後其實在不適任教練這一塊有這個查詢的系統我知道就是涉及違法事件不適任教練資訊專區嘛對不對那我想請教就很明確請那個部長具體告訴大家如果再有類似這位教練的情況"},{"start":693.477,"end":700.466,"text":"違法被判刑但獲得緩刑然後在緩刑期間取得良民證再取得教練身份在這個專區查得到嗎"},{"start":703.825,"end":722.587,"text":"目前的狀況應該是差不多如果是這樣的話我覺得部長真的當然我覺得很多制度法制設計上有些難處可是如果這樣子做不到查不到那說真的像這樣的一個一個所謂的一個性慣犯的那種教練進到校園這問題我就不知道要如何防堵啦"},{"start":723.442,"end":739.694,"text":"那請問部長那怎麼辦你根本不知道他如果經過這一段我們講洗白的過程他再進到校園裡面去那請問這個制度這樣的一個漏洞如何防堵你們現在承認說你的專區這樣的情況是無法判定判讀的嗎無法揭露的嗎"},{"start":742.078,"end":758.372,"text":"跟委員您報告那確實在現行的法治狀況下以及專區的部分確實如果他確實又獲得良民證又獲得教練證這件事情我們確實沒有那很謝謝委員您對於學校體育的重視那這部分我們會回去來好好檢討我們該怎麼保護好兒少這一塊的運動"},{"start":762.535,"end":779.911,"text":"我還是跟部長說發生這個事情我們都非常憤怒跟遺憾但是發生這個事情也就把這事情完全解剖開來看每一個層級到底漏洞在哪裡那到底我們要怎麼去防止這個漏洞有些是政策上的有些是人為管理上的疏失有些是法令規章上的問題"},{"start":780.672,"end":802.171,"text":"那像刚刚我们前面问这个问题部长也明确告诉我说你们有个资讯专区来去因应这样的一个状况但是我再问你详细情形的时候你会发现资讯专区是无法揭露我刚刚讲的那个情形那又变得回到最原初资讯专区就没办法解决所谓防范狼爪进到校园教练的狼爪进到校园这个问题或防范力下降的问题那这个部分"},{"start":803.192,"end":821.089,"text":"當然我覺得請部裡面包括跟我們法務部跟相關的法治單位真的要做一個全盤的一個所謂的剖析跟研究因為孩子是需要我們保護的要拜託部長把保護孩子這件事我們一起放在心上謝謝部長"}]}},{"id":"168323","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168323","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc76ac1bb4497b6a447ff16f9abdda18f34ce3311c87f23443994175fee1b8a1d2e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱議瑩","委員發言時間":"09:39:53 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謝委員提醒前天我們跟商圈的座談會理事長事實上他們觀念上也一直這樣提倡所以就是說他們是想就是說政府在這方面有沒有一些專案可以獎勵或是什麼樣那我也請署長說想一個辦法我們成立一個專案就是針對"},{"start":143.395,"end":168.747,"text":"檢做這件事情我們怎麼樣鼓勵讓這些商圈的這些攤商發揮一下創意吧部長過去這個大家在搶購衛生紙的時候我記得蘇院長蘇貞昌院長當時有一個很夯的口號叫做每一個人自己有一個卡車所以你不需要去搶購衛生紙那現在大家在搶購塑膠袋你們發揮一下創意吧好不好好來那個工部長請回我接下來請農業部"},{"start":174.007,"end":194.413,"text":"來陳部長我想恭喜台灣我們重回亞洲唯一的三大豬並非異區非異國這對台灣的養豬產業來說是一個絕大的好消息但是我想請教就是說台灣的養豬產業年產值大概有1000億重回非異國之後"},{"start":196.414,"end":218.669,"text":"接下來包括我們經歷過那一個非洲豬瘟入侵的這樣的一個恐怖警戒回到非裔國未來我們在防疫的措施上面有沒有更精進包括地方跟中央的整個通報機制是不是有能夠有更精進的作為來部長請說謝謝委員"},{"start":222.392,"end":248.204,"text":"我們很高興回到非疫區但是回到非疫區代表我們更需要去針對我們國內的這些防衛的部分那從這一次的非洲豬瘟的一個應變的過程中我們了解到中央跟地方其實過去的連結特別是在針對整個豬場本身的生物安全防護的這些稽查並不落實所以我們透過這一次的一個經驗我們重新針對"},{"start":249.644,"end":274.163,"text":"場域的部分的生活安全的一個稽查有做了更好的一個落實包括人員進出那個敘事的時候都要用QR Code掃描能夠知道哪一些人進去那第二個部分是在後市場的集合就是說應該講邊境的把關我們持續會去落實而且會去加強那另外第二關就是後市場的稽查那後市場的稽查我們經常跟衛務部"},{"start":274.944,"end":291.941,"text":"去訪查高風險的這些商店那這些商店是不是有來源不明的這些肉品然後再來就是我們場域的所以三道防線我們會跟進進部長我幾個提醒第一個當然在分工上面或者是說您剛剛講的稽查上面"},{"start":292.441,"end":311.618,"text":"我覺得這個還是要持續這個鎖緊螺絲包括在機場的第一線的這個把關上第二豬場的包括四組農場的場主的這個教育這個教育的部分是不是能夠再持續加強包括他們的衛生環境我們過去一直在講養豬場的這個養殖環境的"},{"start":315.08,"end":339.727,"text":"衛生安全的提升這個部分農業部應該還是有持續更精進的作為包括不管是補助也好或者是給他們更多的這些協助上我想這個部分農業部應該還是要持續的來做精進我覺得在第一線的養豬場他如何做好傾銷您剛講都是集合的部分但是在養豬場的場主如何在第一線做好傾銷甚至"},{"start":341.187,"end":359.868,"text":"面對到株枝有可能產生不明的病因的這一些疾病狀況發生的時候我們的獸醫師如何在第一時間介入關心調查甚至診斷我想這個教育上面是不是農業部還要再有更多的這一些"},{"start":360.989,"end":381.85,"text":"強化的作為我想非常謝謝委員的提醒特別提到就是說養豬場的衛生的一個提升那我們在第二期的養豬任性的裡面就有相關的經費去落實然後委員一直關心的就是獸醫師本身怎麼樣第一時間連結豬場那這個部分我想我們也正在啟動所有的獸醫師本身的一個防衛網"},{"start":382.751,"end":398.591,"text":"那這個獸醫師可能有些是特別獸醫師有些是兼職獸醫師但是我們都把他登錄以後就可以讓他更有系統的去協助這個部長我想要特別強調獸醫的管理應該都是在衛福部所以這個部分我想農業部"},{"start":401.274,"end":428.465,"text":"難怪剛剛衛福部司長一直在看我在農業部所以我希望這個部分其實農業部應該要加強在獸醫師的我們不要講管理我想對於加強獸醫師在這一方面應該給予他們有充分的授權跟充分的這一些知識這個部分我想請農業部來協助接下來要請教這個SSG的部分部長當然這個"},{"start":430.489,"end":450.077,"text":"台灣對美國排除了SSG的這個機制對市場的影響現在還沒看出來我在擔心農業部會不會過度樂觀因為當時設立SSG其實就是為了維持這個關稅機制以免大量進口嘛那我們現在當然是只有對美國"},{"start":451.697,"end":461.607,"text":"採取免徵那您剛剛講說包括肌肉的價格啦這個價差其實不大啦稻米的影響其實不嚴重但是一旦SSG被拿掉之後"},{"start":463.001,"end":481.643,"text":"有沒有可能對於農產品的價格或者我直接這樣問你們的評估會不會過度樂觀我跟委員說明其實我們評估針對14項的SSG的品項我們有逐項的評估那這14項裡面其中有10項它有配合制度"},{"start":482.404,"end":499.695,"text":"那有配額的時候就是有關稅內配額跟關稅外配額那如果一個產品要進來那我們也同時去分析它有沒有其他競爭對手國我舉豬肉就好豬肉有調降一些關稅但是美國調降關稅以後的豬肉還是比加拿大的還貴"},{"start":500.936,"end":528.888,"text":"所以他要能夠量到大到能夠啟動SSG他必須經過取代加拿大的一個豬肉或是巴拉圭的豬肉然後又針對這些量逐步的放大那以豬肉來講我們的消費習性跟我們後續的推動我覺得我們有把握但是我們也必須持續的去關注有一些可能的風險那在這個風險之下我們也投入了一些改善的措施所以部長"},{"start":529.668,"end":557.382,"text":"如果我今天是在野黨的委員在野黨委員一定會問你一句話如果照你這樣講的這麼樂觀、審慎其實對台灣的風險不大那你為什麼要編列300億的農安基金你300億的農安基金要拿來做什麼你的農安基金是只有穩定或者是輔導而已有沒有一個部分是拿來穩定這個物價或者是穩定這個農民的心絕對有我們的價格穩定啦或者是收購啦或者是及時補助"},{"start":558.743,"end":576.508,"text":"你的農恩基金有沒有做這一塊?絕對有,我跟委員報告齁其實這次跟美國對等談判的一個內容本身對談判是一個機會所以我們要趁這個機會重慶我們國內的一個產銷的一個次序包括我們要用價值取代價格的競爭"},{"start":578.028,"end":597.416,"text":"因為用低價的競爭我想我們的成本太高所以怎麼樣提升我們的價值我們就會投入更多的資源來避免您所擔心的這個可能的風險我們覺得影響不大但是我們不會樂觀到都不去忽略這個議題我們會持續的去關心"},{"start":599.417,"end":615.817,"text":"好 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谢谢委员好 所以我们希望在两个礼拜之内起码你要告诉我目前具体的做法到什么地方我不要再看到3月4号的这样的回文再出现在本席的办公室可以吗"},{"start":472.921,"end":497.651,"text":"好那么接下来我们来看看运科计划这个运科计划呢当然是已经有很多人遗忘但是我还是要特别提到一下因为我们施大女族的这个案件我们上次在部长上次我们大家在质询台上很多人就特别质疑这个有关于违反伦理的部分里面嘛那我现在要问的部分里面呢请问一下这个运动部有没有对于这个施大女族涉及违反研究伦理这部分你们有没有内部的行政调查"},{"start":498.715,"end":524.712,"text":"跟委員您報告那這個部分在孕科這個女足案那我們確實有去開會了解當時的狀況然後呢你們有做出任何的懲處嗎那這個確實我沒有掌握的這麼好那當時開會的確實是剛剛委員您提到的鄭市長對你們提到了鄭市長鄭市長怎麼樣主持的對然後呢"},{"start":529.828,"end":556.426,"text":"開會了開會然後結果呢有沒有懲處目前為止就我跟委員您報告那確實我沒有掌握的這麼好所以我要去問政次長就對了沒有我會會後提供給委員您好就是說我們要了解目前為止我們得到訊息是你對相關的這個相關人員你是沒有做一個懲處的然後呢這個監察院也正在調查當中監察院調查是一回事然後呢這也的確是有一些行政督導上的一個"},{"start":557.727,"end":578.243,"text":"所以说呢而且上一次我还要提醒啊上次黄次长当然要提供给我这个原住民运动医学检测计划的相关资料给我现在已经过了四个月了我还没有收到部长你可以要求一下吗可以对四个月了还没有为什么本席在质询台上所质询的东西要的资料目前都没有这个是基本上其他部分很少发生的而且呢"},{"start":578.743,"end":599.616,"text":"好不好我们会检讨然后呢为了借配合监察院的这个调查还有运客中心要清查所有的补助案是否依规定送这个RB或者REC这个是没问题吧对不对而且先前已经全面终止的运动支援计划我们希望能够调查完整完之后再来做这件事情应该没错吧嗯"},{"start":600.635,"end":618.671,"text":"但是就我发现有人告诉我们其实运科计划目前已经偷偷重启了而且已经开放申请了这个难道运动部已经先知道监察院调查结果会轻轻放下吗所以你们开始重启了当初不是说把所有的事情零定清楚完毕之后呢我们再来做这样部分为什么现在先有重启"},{"start":619.215,"end":627.079,"text":"跟委員您報告那這個我們絕對不是輕輕放下那是不是可以有請我請運客中心執行長來待會回覆而且呢現在目前為止你承辦單位從國體大改為運客中心所以說就換了一個招牌換了一個單位之後好像就能夠再重新而且呢就參加的學員不好意思我們有很多學員參加他聽完之後他不認為跟過去的做法有什麼不一樣還是在玩文字遊戲然後呢一些說法裡面"},{"start":646.93,"end":651.195,"text":"發生這麼大的一件事情大家都很累還要經過這麼樣的一個處理但是呢我們還是必須要我個人認為必須要保障全手的健康跟權益之下才有辦法來做一個進行在沒有釐清相關責任之前你們現在要重新開啟然後找人來做這樣的聽課你們是要有辦法確保"},{"start":666.63,"end":671.658,"text":"你們真的是在安全無慮而且大家都在同一時間進行檢測嗎如果是的話那為什麼所上的課找大家來說講的話跟過去這事件發生前講的一模一樣好像這件事情發生之後就沒有任何可以追溯的一個空間了是這樣子嗎"},{"start":682.634,"end":699.817,"text":"跟委員您報告那些你感謝的你關心我們世大女主案那其實在去年的時候在這個會議中我們確實有在做後續的這個制度的相關性的這個探討然後也有制定出來那詳細的部分不知道是不是可以有請運客中心指引很快時間因為我時間到了"},{"start":700.863,"end":717.213,"text":"跟委員報告我們特別是在法治跟運動員保護這邊做很多準備運科中心在今年成立了一個運動員沒有問題但是我只問你你運科計畫是不是又開始重啟開始申請在所有的這個案件沒有釐清之前你們是不是重啟又開始重新開放申請我只要問這件事"},{"start":720.275,"end":737.046,"text":"那为什么在没有厘清没有做出任何而且运动部在也都还在做调查的状况之下可以重启而且给予学员上课的这个整个内容跟过去一样也没有因为这件事情得到任何的一个部分起码上课的学员觉得讲的都是一样这样有改进吗"},{"start":739.161,"end":755.855,"text":"在運科資源的機制基本上是跟之前相同但是所有的運動員保護跟倫理的規範我們都訂定相關的一些制度在今年都已經通過了所以所有的情況你在上課的你去跟大家聽完之後去做這樣的申請開這樣的一個會議當中這個審查會議你們的講法有不一樣嗎"},{"start":760.534,"end":784.051,"text":"這確實有跟現場的學員說所有的計畫申請的過程都需要經過我們的保護人員會通過所以會經過一個很嚴謹的審查然後也要符合我們的倫理規範是 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傅雲慶院長好"},{"start":1825.27,"end":1831.992,"text":"高雄農民總醫院院長陳金順平東農民總醫院院長王瑞祥農民農卷基金會秘書長劉協慶本日會議邀請國軍退役官兵輔導委員會主任委員員得發報告"},{"start":1852.79,"end":1853.151,"text":"業務狀況並被質詢現在請顏主委上台報告"},{"start":1867.079,"end":1892.108,"text":"主席各位委員先進大家好承蒙各位委員先進上會期對本會各項施政的工作的指導跟支持謹致崇高的敬意面對社會形態日益多樣化以及農民退役官民結構多元化不同服務需求的挑戰在擴展農民服務量能優化農家環境推動智慧醫療照護"},{"start":1893.228,"end":1909.72,"text":"辅导转职稳定就业与深化事业经营管理等方面持续努力精进未来将聚焦人才培育数位转型尖端医疗与永续经营等面向持续推动居民专长转型农民照护数位转型"},{"start":1910.2,"end":1923.137,"text":"优化农家设施打造高龄友善照护环境及农场永续经营以全面提升农民照顾与服务的效能先紧急工作执行现况及未来重点预计灾报如后"},{"start":1924.295,"end":1942.941,"text":"工作执行现况一 妥善业务社会资源扩展农民服务量能以各农服处为服务平台定期访试农民券主动为具风险的农民券装设远距居家照顾系统并结合科技辅具与人力访试相互应用"},{"start":1943.601,"end":1957.051,"text":"并视其需求连接社会资源,并借由本会职员工运用社区资源服务的人员,以及荣心志工协力推动就学、就业、就医、就养及服务照顾等工作。"},{"start":1958.641,"end":1974.143,"text":"2.针对低收入户、中低收入户、特殊经济家庭及经学校认定、清寒无力支付午餐费的对象,提供例假日及寒暑假午餐补助,每月补助新台币80元,发给经济弱势或于"},{"start":1974.904,"end":1991.214,"text":"急濫困境榮民園急濫救助以及三節慰問令主動就75歲以下具低收中低收入戶中低老人生活津貼及特殊禁慰家庭之榮民及宜眷投保違行保險去年協助納保6891人3."},{"start":1991.214,"end":1991.454,"text":"榮民榮眷基金會"},{"start":1995.456,"end":2019.365,"text":"去年发放重大灾害救助清寒农民子女大学以上奖学金就学补助农民子女国外求学精英圆梦计划即2469人次3399万亿元而推动多元照护作为优化农家一样环境配合政府长照3.0政策持续推动一样和一服务稳定护理人员"},{"start":2020.205,"end":2048.008,"text":"导入智慧辅具建构三级医疗照护网络充实各项照护措施以满足需求各农家总传位数由8785床调整至8857床总占床率占床数是7148床占床率提升80.71感谢稳健服务的量能而奉行政院核定自今年1月1号起"},{"start":2049.164,"end":2065.811,"text":"各容家护理人员由委外全面改采约用制度禁用,相关薪资待遇及考评制度都明确规划,提高护理人员薪资待遇,拥有更稳定的服务环境及留院医院,达成员工福利与照护品质双赢的目标。"},{"start":2066.451,"end":2092.528,"text":"但一群政府长照政策推动失智忠诚计划于109到115年增建失智床位包括板桥等六所农家共增加502床以启用276床是115年底全数建制完成后失智总床位达1145床协助疏解失智照护需求强化国家长照安全网是促进活跃老化"},{"start":2093.208,"end":2121.402,"text":"举办各类热力课程及文康活动以促进认知活化进而延缓失能以促进健康其中高雄农家以活药老化为核心理念成立荣光快乐非洲谷队荣和卫福部114年长者活药老化全国竞赛冠军金牌奖成效显著5.导入智慧辅具结合非药物治疗农家养护区导入智慧床垫有1520床"},{"start":2123.163,"end":2149.554,"text":"今年将扩增到2604床可以全速满足各农家养护区私人照护的需求藉由压力感测及离床警示功能有效降低离床跌倒风险并减轻照护人员的工作压力并赋予多元的非药物治疗模式包含怀旧疗法、宠物补疗及运动治疗等达到疗愈的效果其能改善失智症的行为症状"},{"start":2150.154,"end":2175.939,"text":"减缓失智,有效提升生活品质而强化职场竞争优势辅导转职稳定就业在就学辅导方面深化产学合作扩大于国立屏东科技大学等15所学校以及日月光半导体等企业合作达成就学及就业的目标而在职业训练方面职训中心致力于提升训练品质"},{"start":2176.599,"end":2199.806,"text":"与制度化管理于去年与连续四度获得劳动部人才发展品质管理系统GTQS平和金牌殊荣成效深获肯定办理自办跟委外训练即培训2388人次并推动产训合作计划专案强化训后就业媒合即培训194人次另外透过"},{"start":2200.586,"end":2225.143,"text":"职业训练补助的措施,协助官兵依个人职业规划参训,促进在地训练、在地就业,即补助3596人次。3、在职业辅导方面,委托专业机构办理职业视性评量、职业咨询及接受官兵职业探索营,同时试办导入AI模拟面试的工具。"},{"start":2226.331,"end":2252.036,"text":"有效提升求职竞争力四在创业辅导方面提供创业咨询计划评估与经营管理辅导训练及服务八百人次五在就业媒合方面配合产业人力需求积极链接公司部门资源训练办理征才活动参与八千六百四十九人次另外成功推荐杨宁海运等居民企业就业"},{"start":2252.816,"end":2273.899,"text":"合法稳定就业军贴6346人是推动智慧医疗照护精进医照整合体系本会所属荣总持续推动智慧医疗成果卓著台北荣总为台湾唯一连续三年上榜美国全球前250强最佳医院三所荣总"},{"start":2274.58,"end":2290.076,"text":"都获评选为全球最佳智慧医院其中台中荣总连续两年为台湾唯一荣登全球百大智慧医院感谢荣总卓越医疗品质与国际竞争力提升尖端精准医疗量能"},{"start":2290.697,"end":2318.846,"text":"配合国家癌症防治三件积极推动重粒子、止止、膨中止、捕获治疗台北人种重粒子癌症治疗启用到今天3月份今年3月已完成692位病患的治疗台北人种与台中人种为健保卡特基细胞治疗认可的9家医学中心之二截至去年已执行122人456次癌症等细胞的治疗"},{"start":2320.402,"end":2349.714,"text":"是为缩短城乡医疗差距并强化偏乡农民照顾去年补助44名偏乡医师留院奖金共5250万元并补助91个科经营团队医师计约1.6亿元另外台中人种由院长率队支援24科55名医师进入嘉义分院强化地区集中症医疗量能深化云加兰地区农民圈及区域民众偏乡医疗服务"},{"start":2351.52,"end":2363.669,"text":"为部件住宿式长照跟医养合一体系各级容颜积极参与社区整体照顾服务计划ABC单位去年提供居家式长照服务累计10万8563人服务14万8000余人次"},{"start":2366.932,"end":2381.091,"text":"另外屏東榮總跟台積電、慈善基金會合作辦理醫療起點公益實踐活動結合企業、社區等資源深化社區與偏鄉醫療服務未來全面擴大服務量能"},{"start":2382.573,"end":2405.353,"text":"12家容院附设住宿式长照结构,导入智慧床垫,去年有效降低68%跌倒和92%压伤发生几率。17家日照中心应用人脸辨识系统,改善忧郁、妄想等身心行为症状,提供视觉照顾,提升照护效能,其因应我国人口结构老化。"},{"start":2405.973,"end":2429.973,"text":"本会所属医疗机构就长期照顾专业人力的准备规划去年各级容院具备长照专业人员资格就一万两千余人持续扩大运用外籍照护人力苏澳及高雄等六所容院已经禁用外籍照护员96名充实长照照护能量并持续招募"},{"start":2431.115,"end":2437.283,"text":"8、深化遠距照護及載載醫療台北、台中、高雄三所種種成立遠距醫療中心"},{"start":2439.403,"end":2463.656,"text":"提供农家全方位远距照护服务,自111年到114年,供给服务3290人次,减少4成,住民转送医院。另外,推动荣兴照护网计划,透过及时新建图传输与判读,目前中张等9所农家已经完成建置,成功及时救治9名心肌梗塞的病人。"},{"start":2464.276,"end":2487.745,"text":"各级农院也提供农民券及高龄长者友善就医绿色通道服务提供优先看诊快速挂号批价与签床等服务训练服务31万6千余人次5.深化事业经营管理形塑农场优质服务以精进投资事业营运目标114年税前营营73亿余元较113年成长4.24亿余元"},{"start":2492.661,"end":2499.126,"text":"全年目標131.92%安置率42.02%超過本會持股率33.27%經營績效及安置狀況良好持續督促轉投資事業將各類危安事項防範要求列為重要事項以安全為本 落實風險管理 確保營運穩定"},{"start":2513.396,"end":2530.229,"text":"为提升农业生产的效益及收益,三高山农场与农业部辖下各单元合作,精进农策产品的栽培技术。三高山农场提供实习场域培育专业人才,去年继17名大专院校学生至农场实习。"},{"start":2530.97,"end":2551.009,"text":"在三高山農場及台中農場松原別館參加觀光署觀光亮點獎榮獲最佳人氣獎十大觀光亮點最佳國際創新獎及台灣觀光一百亮點據交通部觀光署二零二五年全台農場跟牧場觀光人士排行榜的統計"},{"start":2552.523,"end":2570.522,"text":"农业高山清净农场、武林农场、福寿山农场名列前五名,去年累计约120万人次游客到访,其中清净农场更以近68万人次居首,为全台最受青睐的农场,感谢行销推广跟旅游的成效。"},{"start":2571.762,"end":2597.372,"text":"4.为感谢军营保教卫国及本会员工医护人员长期照顾农民的辛劳本会推出比照农民的优惠措施结合媒体采线深化体验强化行销退府会观光圈整体品牌与旅行社合作推出五福林门套装行程并将青云农场纳入整体行销提供优质山林体验"},{"start":2598.432,"end":2612.821,"text":"5.为生化品牌经营,结合故宫博物院百年愿庆,携手合作推出五大农场严选商品,共22项联名商品,提升农场品牌价值和曝光度。未来工作的重点1."},{"start":2612.821,"end":2618.665,"text":"建置居民专程转型后职科技人才培育,以为协助现役官兵执牙规划。"},{"start":2619.345,"end":2641.777,"text":"退后军职专长得以顺利转化民间职能自去年起及委托专业团队建设军民专长转型对照表历经116场次现役官兵的访谈以及53次场官学界专家的验证会议预定今年4月底将全数完成所有的军民职业专长的对照"},{"start":2642.657,"end":2670.547,"text":"明年1月平台启用后预期可以引导官兵再因此培养专业军职技能退伍后由本会和荣福处辅以AI模拟面试深层履历精准就业媒合缩短待业时间有效延伸推进官民人力资源到民间职场持续发挥面对全球AI发展的趋势执行中心推动执行课程创新以及教学设备的升级"},{"start":2671.167,"end":2696.555,"text":"今年将持续增加AI课程时数并更换于明年建置AI专业教室透过训练实作系统性培养训员AI应用的能力强化高阶技术人才培育此外配合政府五大信赖产业政策积极开办无人机培训课程与职训中心建置专业训练场辅导学员考取专业证照"},{"start":2697.395,"end":2717.274,"text":"职训衔接就业方面115年规划于新北台中高雄市荣福处与在地标杆企业推动产讯合作落实信用合一机制明年扩大到六都办理但配合政府推动人工智慧半导体及智慧制造等重点科技产业人才培育政策"},{"start":2718.345,"end":2742.924,"text":"今年持续与国立情义科大等15所大学院校合作,链接教育部推动的产学合作专班及产硕专班,以推出与官民就读科技相关系统,辅导居等参与半导体等科技产学合作班,兼顾就学就业需求,帮助进入交友前景的产业安定生活。"},{"start":2743.644,"end":2761.634,"text":"是为提升退股政策的能见度与触及率以今年4月1号起与大型人力银行网站建置推行官民就业服务专区串联本会及执行中心官网建构跨平台就业服务资讯的网络提升就业辅导的效能"},{"start":2763.308,"end":2787.727,"text":"而发展智慧系统平台荣民照护数位转型因超高龄社会来临做好孤独老服务照护建置荣民照护数位转型平台提供医疗端包含各荣总非医院医疗团队及各管事服务端包含荣服处社区服务组长辅导人社公司零头人跟零里长个案端及家属端包含家庭成员及看护"},{"start":2788.703,"end":2804.395,"text":"跨领域的公务馆应用及时的APP系统同步让参与协助照护人员更紧密照护更透明并以今年作为农民照护转型推动原理整合医疗保健资讯照顾服务与健康"},{"start":2805.763,"end":2818.998,"text":"檢查等資料建構健康風險預測模型經本會驗證初步成果顯示已可由被動回應式照顧邁向主動預測時整合型照顧的一個新階段"},{"start":2819.994,"end":2845.603,"text":"发挥一点政变全面应援的效果从事后的处理走向事前的预防减少非预期就医及医疗资源的浪费不仅落实依照合一实现农民安心安老的核心目标引领对高龄农民圈的照护升级做好孤独老的服务照顾三引进尖端医疗科技创新多元诊疗技术台中人种植子治疗中心将整合"},{"start":2846.383,"end":2870.624,"text":"放射化学药物手术免疫疗法提供国家级癌症医疗服务并预划明年试云配合国家推动新形态临床试验规划新建台中农种科技大楼打造符合国际标准的卓越临床试验中心预划今年10月开工为缩短心脏急症患者动线的流程降低移动风险"},{"start":2871.565,"end":2899.991,"text":"台北榮總規劃新建新血管中心大樓預期於明年開工次優化榮家硬體建設建構高齡友善環境第一持續推動榮家設施更新與家居環境改善工程並規劃在116年起推動台北榮家設施及環境總體營造中層計劃設施老舊建物更新動線改善無障礙環境強化跟照護空間的重塑"},{"start":2900.791,"end":2928.755,"text":"同时导入智慧科技与安全机制并透过数据化管理提升照护精准与效率减轻人力负担其可舒缓北部地区安养护常位后住的需求的压力导入智慧科技辅具建立新型照护模式16所农家无线网路以全面完成建制形成稳定且高效率的数位服务基础逐步推广智慧辅具打造让农民前辈"},{"start":2929.315,"end":2932.604,"text":"活得更健康,過得更精彩,生活更有尊嚴的醫療環境"},{"start":2935.069,"end":2958.683,"text":"五 完善农场经营环境促进事业永续发展以配合国家资源永续利用政策农场推动农策产品友善的工作福州山农场更为在115年到120年分六年推动原项更新并配合行政院自然碳汇关键战略计划逐步达到造林50公顷的目标二"},{"start":2959.463,"end":2976.55,"text":"为提升农场油气设施的服务品质与安全性三高山农场近年已投入十亿元办理客房整修、油气设施更新及整体环境优化未来将持续推动引入民间资源执行宜兰站、七兰及名池"},{"start":2986.395,"end":3000.204,"text":"3.鼓励各事业以前瞻思维落实永续发展及慈善企业社会的责任依循ESG关键指标与法规落实永续发展及善尽企业社会责任"},{"start":3001.084,"end":3022.913,"text":"应用现代化科技思维治理平台,强化内部控制与风险管控,提升决策效率与监管能力,优化组织韧性与应变能力。6.强化国际退协链接,开创友好合作新局,扩展与美国及亚太地区重要退伍军人团体跟邻近国家相关组织合作网络。"},{"start":3023.653,"end":3041.35,"text":"深化国际退府交流布局透过与驻台外馆国际智库及海外融光会互动合作宣扬我国遵从退府军人完善照顾体系的核心价值并派遣农家及农夫处首长出访分享并吸取有谋实务的经验"},{"start":3042.051,"end":3070.268,"text":"借以全面提升农民券服务跟照顾品质另外因国际政经情势快速变动积极与理念相近的民主国家交流深化伙伴关系扩大我国国际参与跟政策发生的能量彰显中华民国在国际社会中的重要性与贡献结与国军退出于官兵服役期间对国家安全无私奉献牺牲付出奠定我国稳定发展的重要基础本会基于"},{"start":3070.888,"end":3091.627,"text":"同工報薰 榮民為本 秉持中正團結 關懷 誠朴開創的核心價值順應社會環境變遷 持續檢討與精進各項服務與政策措施提供周延而具前瞻性的服務與照顧以上報告 敬請各位委員先進不定指導 敬祝各位委員先進健康如意 報告完畢"},{"start":3094.636,"end":3105.419,"text":"那我們現在開始詢答本會委員4加2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘10點半截止方案登記如果有提及實體案請在10點半前提出11點左右處理現在請沈博洋委員謝謝主席有請主委謝謝我們請主委謝謝"},{"start":3126.531,"end":3139.966,"text":"主委好我想先問一下這一次花蓮馬太安馬太安這一次我們有看到北榮有下去做功夫啟動心理衛生巡迴的醫療服務"},{"start":3143.93,"end":3157.601,"text":"這個確實當地是非常需要幫助因為其實不管是焦慮憂鬱等等的情形其實是在災後重建是非常常見的所以我想說是不是可以就這一個方面來說明一下現在的一個整個的進度"},{"start":3159.178,"end":3188.781,"text":"報告委員北龍院長北龍院長跟您報告沒問題報告委員那個光佈鄉因為它整個鄉只有五個醫師沒有精神科的醫師的確需要幫忙所以我們育理分院現在新回醫療每兩個禮拜去一次有醫師跟護理師到大同村南富村大概人口加起來兩千人提供協助如果這樣的量能還不夠民眾有請求我們再加派目前是OK的"},{"start":3189.121,"end":3211.182,"text":"好 密度是高的因為我看到農村其實我們的原民朋友也非常的多所以確實在這個資源的分配上是比較不夠那再幫忙評估一下如果說有不夠的情形的話可能就要請本人再辛苦一點好 謝謝那再來我想問一下這個主委就是因為這一次的新興資本跟這一個新增計畫有將近這個"},{"start":3214.745,"end":3244.103,"text":"那這個台北榮民總醫院信義院區的新建計畫我相信在這一個北部的辦公室其實已經有討論過了那我認為這件事情確實重要因為這跟我們的這整個的信義院區的一個規劃然後還有同仁的住宿然後以及對於未來我們其實這是有戰略性的一個需求那現在這一個的進度因為畢竟他現在就是沒有辦法通過那我們現在該怎麼處理這件事情"},{"start":3246.055,"end":3268.753,"text":"包圍我們今年的預算 變了有預算的經費就是要整理這個松德營區松德營區將來就要呈讓給北龍 改信義院區那預算如果沒有通過 那他的整修就會延宕那他一延宕 自然而然就會延宕到信義院區明年要開工的整個的時程"},{"start":3269.373,"end":3294.762,"text":"所以我們希望預算能夠盡快去通過讓我們把松德營區的同仁能夠搬到松柏松柏整建好之後可以順利的進去因為我看這件事情是蠻趕的上次在考察的時候就已經發現這個問題了那我們當然是希望預算能夠趕快審查但是這一件事情我覺得對我們來講這個其實對未來尤其是整個榮總的這整個的量能其實是有非常大的幫助"},{"start":3295.182,"end":3320.561,"text":"那心醫院區報員他是在心醫院那個地方是一個高端的癌症治療中心而且跟國際都有交流其實重點就是國際交流這一個部分好 那這個我們就只能盡快啦我們希望立法院能夠盡快接下來我想問一下鐘榮的問題就是第三醫療大樓那因為第三醫療大樓確實也可以增加多一點量能但我看進度上好像稍微慢了一點是否可以說明一下這個第三醫療大樓的進度"},{"start":3321.442,"end":3324.903,"text":"像沈委員報告台中總總第三醫療大樓的新辦計劃本來是預定118年3月14日竣工那截至3月31號今年為止目前的工程進度事實上是35.73%"},{"start":3343.291,"end":3365.502,"text":"較預定的17.36%事實上是超前18.37%所以目前整體施工並沒有落後的情形那我們會加強進度的管控確保工程可以如期如止的完工好那這沒有問題啦因為今天時間的關係我想說就是確保一下這些不管是量能上還有進度上都有符合我們的預期那"},{"start":3365.982,"end":3381.932,"text":"最後有這一個那個執訓這一個部分我之前每一次都會問但是是不是可以很簡短的報告因為好像是預估這個五月的時候可以完成嘛我記得那現在是不是進度這個反而是超前是不是請指出"},{"start":3385.819,"end":3395.865,"text":"委員好 我是就學監事處處長跟您報告我們原定的計畫其實7月上市6月可是我們4月底這個月底就是這個月底這個月底就會完成753項所有的軍事專長的對照然後我們再持續進行一個優化但是我們的運用平台就必須還有因為我們還有AI的智能服務的設計那就必須在10月底才會完成然後11 12月我們會做這個功能測試跟教育訓練OK"},{"start":3415.598,"end":3430.107,"text":"好那這個如果是進度超前當然是好事啦那還是要注意一下就是上次我特別提到的資安問題那這個應該是講過很多次了我就不多說但是倒回來講就是謝謝就是在這一個我們現在看到我們這一次的業報裡面有提到就是我們榮業這個長照機構那它有導入這個智慧床墊啊什麼這個沒問題那它這個"},{"start":3436.838,"end":3461.984,"text":"那個有運用這個人臉辨識這個系統改善憂鬱妄想等身心行為的症狀我想這是新的趨勢啦這個沒有什麼問題剛剛也有提到這個在智慧醫院的排行這個在國際上我們也是赫赫有名那但是因為只要是有人臉辨識都一定會有個人隱私安全的問題所以這一個是不是長者或者說家屬有沒有同意使用那如果有的話就算今天有這個"},{"start":3464.045,"end":3470.272,"text":"同意這一些資料他以後要怎麼去銷毀等等之類這個機制目前如何想確認一下這個治安的部分"},{"start":3471.025,"end":3500.186,"text":"委員它主要是應用在各種種跟分院的日照中心應用在這個單位那它的人臉辨識系統它是內網操作內網運作那如果對外媒鏈接的話就要去識別化的一個處理那相關的這些剛剛委員所關心的軟硬體的設備都按照治安法的規定來辦理防火牆 專點防護還有防毒軟體這些防護的一些作為都按照相關的治安法的規定來確保飲食及資訊安全"},{"start":3500.951,"end":3514.101,"text":"後續我覺得保障安全這個部分這樣聽起來比較沒有什麼問題但前階段是否有這個經過同意啊等等之類的這個也要確保那因為時間的因素我大概問到這裡是是 這我們會管制好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席好 謝謝沈浦洋委員接下來我們邀請陳永康委員質詢"},{"start":3534.796,"end":3563.087,"text":"主席有請嚴主委我們請嚴主委學長委員好 主委好剛剛聽取的報告內心感觸很深第一個我們的這些榮民前輩前半生在國軍服務犧牲奉獻雖然檯面上我們看不到顯著的功勳但是實際上他們每一個人的犧牲奉獻"},{"start":3564.298,"end":3582.865,"text":"以及他的愛國情操啊其實不輸每一個國民那麼因此除了對榮民的照顧以外就剛才也聽到榮總意願那我們榮總的量能未來成長的這個capacity我們都是表達支持跟肯定但是最近啊我們看到國際情勢啊像俄烏戰爭啊"},{"start":3584.706,"end":3609.788,"text":"以色列在加沙的冲突以及最近美国跟伊朗的冲突除了军职人员还有很多老百姓的伤患那如果碰到这种问题一个是我们未来有没有这个预量在应急的规划中间先做一点潜在的前瞻计划做规划那么另外一个就是跟医疗体系本身没有冲突的就是"},{"start":3610.549,"end":3639.097,"text":"因為意外事件我們發現如果我們的試電中斷了那麼我們各個醫院他的緊急發電機的儲油跟儲水這個是可以修法來提升他能力他都有這個能力可是因為是消防安全法比方講你的儲油是多少小時這個東西我們要考慮到未來的潛在衝突希望在供水供電在試電中斷的過程中我們能夠持續有一個時間"},{"start":3640.077,"end":3662.002,"text":"那么下面我做几个建议我特别强调的就是我们这个推幅会对农家的照顾推幅会就知道农民需要什么就做什么东西那我们从的目标方法手段这个我们都有一个完整的作业的流程那我就提出几个建议"},{"start":3663.002,"end":3679.299,"text":"第一個是降低榮總的工作負荷在就醫方面醫療體系前提下我們篩選民間優質的醫療體系來共同合作這樣可以把它的負擔稍微降低一點那麼民間也可以跟榮總來做接軌"},{"start":3681.906,"end":3706.332,"text":"第二个舒缓后诊看诊的时间就是善用的绿色通道包括这些先进的资讯系统确保流程的效率跟服务的品质减轻这个焦虑与病痛那么周全医疗体系环境刚才您讲了将来AI系统一定是取代了很多复杂性的工作那前面的委员咨询也强调了"},{"start":3706.932,"end":3732.36,"text":"AI只要是资讯先进啊你就考虑到治安的问题那回过头来我们又不得考虑如果暂时的时候荣家的医院跟三军现有的医院这些对于现职的军人的战伤他的个人的这个资料是不是可以流通而不是要进去重新再验血重新再做测量这是"},{"start":3733.649,"end":3752.856,"text":"一个新的approach但是呢安全的问题也要强化那最主要就是现在法规下整合大数据以及优化数据库这个干在您的刚才报告中间呢我们听到在在在推进我们会支持这个理念那最后就是一个调整旧养金的给付啊"},{"start":3753.396,"end":3769.208,"text":"领取救养金的荣民期待是不是建议能够比照公务人员呢或者均值的调整同步也提升一下这个军公教这个比照的一个方法请这个主委给一些意见和指导"},{"start":3772.057,"end":3796.912,"text":"謝謝委員這些精闢的指導我想我們要服務照顧農民是我們的本務委員這些指導我覺得都非常的重要不管是降低農種的工作的負荷還有綠色通道我們的一個貫徹跟民間的合作周全的醫療跟調整的救養金這些意見都非常的寶貴我想我們回去"},{"start":3797.552,"end":3810.115,"text":"我們各處會做分辦然後再跟委員做回報特別是剛剛委員所提到的我們暫時的醫材我們主要是配合醫政動員的準備計劃我們儲備有25項的藥品跟70項的衛材這個是按照動員計劃來的其中有17項是重要的藥品還有13項的衛材"},{"start":3819.857,"end":3837.079,"text":"是在三個總院從110年開始就已經儲備了而且它是25萬人份然後平常就按照時間來推成換新那平時它是有兩到三周的庫存量那一到三級的管制藥品有一個月的庫存量所以這些"},{"start":3839.283,"end":3852.722,"text":"從這個中東戰爭我們都在做一些檢視做一些檢驗看怎麼樣能夠符合戰事的需求以及剛剛講的動員準備計劃裡面的規範那剛剛委員提到的降低總統的工作負荷我們"},{"start":3854.451,"end":3868.732,"text":"台中歐陽總最近獲得友善環境醫學中心獎獲獎他在裏面採取了很多措施包含委員所提到的減輕我們的負荷我剛在業務報告裏面也報告了"},{"start":3870.574,"end":3885.71,"text":"怎麼樣去智慧化一些設施跟設備的一些徵購減輕我們醫護人員尤其護理師 照護人員的一個負擔那台中的那種特別他們是把護病比給它降低我覺得這個措施可以然後自己去排班"},{"start":3886.391,"end":3888.692,"text":"謝謝主委的回應我想我們要大家努力要強化對農家的照顧作為對當年農民犧牲奉獻的一個回饋謝謝"},{"start":3917.657,"end":3920.999,"text":"謝謝接下來我們請陳俊宇委員好謝謝主席我們請顏主委還有陳院長我們請陳院長顏主委謝謝"},{"start":3944.164,"end":3956.522,"text":"主委院長早我們院長可能是醫療受到大眾的肯定也在醫術方面"},{"start":3961.947,"end":3982.962,"text":"連詐騙集團都對我們院長進行AI身為的影片在傳播我覺得這蠻不可取的我們好像北龍也在第一時間已經澄清了很多的這種藥物的推銷或是這種商業手法都"},{"start":3984.261,"end":4007.163,"text":"用我們院長的肖像,這真的是蠻可怕的我想針對我們北榮在宜蘭的蘇澳跟園山有兩個分院常年來都是照顧我們榮民還有國軍官兵的一個非常重要的醫護院所同時在守護宜蘭鄉親的健康,也付出許多的心力"},{"start":4007.543,"end":4031.609,"text":"那這兩間分院的醫療資源和照護的量能不論在集中症的處理還有長照服務甚至在偏鄉醫療的資源上對地方來說都扮演著不可或缺的角色我想這兩間分院目前在人力配置還有資源的發展現況以及未來的這個展望想和這個主委還有院長進一步的討論跟追蹤"},{"start":4032.529,"end":4052.559,"text":"特別在面對超高齡社會的醫療和照護需求持續增加我們是否已經有做好萬全的準備來因應眼前所面臨的相關挑戰讓我們相關的照護量能還有進一步提升的空間上個月兩分院新任的熊院長"},{"start":4053.94,"end":4081.738,"text":"在就任典禮上他有說到未來將持續深化與地方及社區的這個連結緊密結合北榮這個總院的豐沛資源全面提升殊榮還有元榮分院的整體醫療量能那致力在榮敏及我們宜蘭鄉親提供更優質還有完善的相關健康照護的服務那我想是不是先請我們陳院長說明一下未來我們要如何透過我們北榮的這個"},{"start":4083.179,"end":4108.679,"text":"好的這個醫療體系的支持能夠提升我們蘇龍還有圓融兩間分院整體的一個醫療量非常謝謝陳委員首先我要感謝你對個人的關心這個詐騙集團的事情實在非常可惡第一時間都報案因為我怕有民眾受害那至於說圓山蘇澳呢台北榮總的資源是責無旁貸就重症的部分"},{"start":4109.6,"end":4134.839,"text":"那我們現在支援14個科部每個月超過25個醫師去那這個是基本的另外一個綠色通道更重要如果有重症需要北龍處理我們直接接到電話接到通知直接轉送回來絕對不會有沒有床的事情這個守護依然相親是非常重要至於高齡長照我們現在的護理師家呢原數號有300多床"},{"start":4136,"end":4156.937,"text":"圓山一百多床,一百五十幾床那這個各地市市的據點高齡長照的據點,我們很多的村裡都有現在一個表達我們最大的善意我們最近,奉我們主委的同意我們要把高齡醫學中心即將卸任的部主任他是各中的高手"},{"start":4158.172,"end":4179.019,"text":"私製長照的高手社區醫療的高手他要到宜蘭服務是那這個會注入一個非常大的力量我希望他變成一個典範另外一個我們的陽明交大附設醫院他的院長也是台北榮總指派過去那我們希望成成一個三角養大復醫"},{"start":4180.339,"end":4201.753,"text":"另外我們的蘇澳園山一起合作努力,來照顧我們的宜蘭鄉親謝謝委員確實是有啦,我們這個北榮跟我們的蘇榮還有園榮齁整個連結在一起的時候,能夠提升給我們提供給我們在地的這個醫療的這個服務面向非常的廣"},{"start":4202.353,"end":4210.514,"text":"那也謝謝我們這個北榮包括我們所有的同仁一起努力也都有協助我們在地的需求來達到那個醫療的服務"},{"start":4212.076,"end":4231.944,"text":"那我想延續這個醫療量能還有長照需求的這個部分我們也必須務實來面對一個問題就是人力是否能夠這個跟上服務擴充的一個腳步那無論在這個醫療還是長照還有失智失能的這個服務都來自於第一線專業的護理還有長照人員"},{"start":4234.085,"end":4244.166,"text":"那如果我們專業的這種人力缺口過大再完善的這種政策還有設備恐怕也都難以真正的來落實那這是全國性的問題"},{"start":4246.089,"end":4271.035,"text":"但是在特別在宜蘭地區受限於地理因素還有人口結構的影響人力的招募留任本來就相對的困難近年來隨著需求的增加在第一線人員的工作負擔也持續加重我們要如何來穩定我們的人力減輕壓力並且能夠吸引更多年輕世代來願意投入已經是當前非常迫切的一個問題"},{"start":4271.815,"end":4297.575,"text":"那業報當中也指出我們榮榮開始透過引進外籍照服員來補充人力缺口但相關的制度與配套措施是否已經完善我想在此我請教我們兩分院目前在照護及這個長照人力上是否穩定那目前這個殊榮還有袁榮引進外籍照護員的情況為何那是否能夠確保照護的品質"},{"start":4298.752,"end":4315.734,"text":"老闆我跟您報告一下兩個分院現在都有護理之家他們占床率我覺得還蠻高的占床率說跟原床率分別是84跟88那長照人力非常的穩定而且他們引進了24名越南籍的外籍的照護人那狀況都非常好"},{"start":4316.375,"end":4344.418,"text":"然后有关于刚刚委员关心的对外的这个护理师的招募苏澳分院他跟圣母一副专科学校签订了五年的专科学校毕业生的一个展示计划就是每年提供五个护理科的学生的奖学金然后可以到医院来服务然后与台北荣总办理的这些链接的招募有更新健康专科学校还有国立台北护专这都有也有同学有意愿愿意去这两个偏乡医院来服务"},{"start":4344.978,"end":4369.363,"text":"所以這個可以跟委員多報告那兩個分院在北陸指導之下積極提升薪資跟福利提供在校護理系學生獎學金積極招募跟留任人才這目前三半護病費也都沒問題沒問題了好那針對這個是否引進這個外籍的照護員那其實凸顯的是我們照護現場人力不足的相關問題"},{"start":4370.623,"end":4378.292,"text":"那外籍照護員的加入只是救急治標那對於我們醫院端還是必須全面檢視我們這個醫務人員勞動的一個環境問題還有相關的薪資的問題那再來針對外籍照護員"},{"start":4385.64,"end":4405.686,"text":"可能有這個語言溝通上的一個疑慮那我想提出一個建議就是是否我們能夠與在地的這個休息過長照的外籍學生優先作為我們合作的對象一來可以減輕我們這個溝通上的一個盲區那二來也可以這個縮減我們環境適應的相關問題以上提供給我們這個單位做參考謝謝主委跟謝謝委員"},{"start":4414.292,"end":4430.529,"text":"好謝謝主委謝謝委員接下來我們邀請羅美玲委員上台諮詢謝謝主席有請嚴主委請主委"},{"start":4439.039,"end":4444.581,"text":"羅委員好諸委早安諸委我們輔導會所屬的這個榮總無論是在醫療品質或是在這個國際競爭力確實是成果非常的這個卓越喔也因為醫療品質的受到這個肯定那所以榮總除了服務我們榮民之外的其實呢國人遇到這個病痛呢榮總往往呢是首選喔可是呢對於來自世界各國的這個外籍人士或是新住民來講呢可能可敬信就不是那麼的高"},{"start":4468.647,"end":4481.81,"text":"因為根據新南向人員健康服務中心最近跟多位在台生活多年的新住民深入訪談發現即使已經是長期居住在台灣新住民在就醫的過程當中普遍面臨語言跟資訊落差的問題舉個例子來講用藥指導方面好了"},{"start":4489.392,"end":4511.95,"text":"那由於醫療人員有時候他講的這個速度比較快一點或者是沒有提供適當的語言的這個輔助所以造成新住民或是外籍人士理解上面的是有困難的所以進而影響到這個用藥的這個正確性那其實呢我們北榮在2018年的時候曾經有一個創舉就是率先的成立了新住民門診可是後來因為掛號的人數偏低後來我們就"},{"start":4515.513,"end":4540.892,"text":"停止辦理了那當然在2024年的時候我曾經也有質詢過這個問題那當然榮總當然院長那時候我記得你有提到就是說那個掛號的這個這個人數過低那可能就是因為他大部分都是有家屬在陪同也許他覺得他只要掛副科或者是說他想要掛這個骨科等等家屬可能就直接就替他掛了那個專門的這個"},{"start":4543.874,"end":4564.931,"text":"這個科 比如說他可能需要婦產科 他可能就直接就掛婦產科就不會到新住民門診區 所以造成了這個掛號人數偏低其實這樣子也反映出就是說 新住民如果沒有家屬的陪同如果是他單獨去掛號的話 他可能對他來講這是一個很大的門檻"},{"start":4566.472,"end":4583.017,"text":"如果就變成說他沒有辦法單獨去到這個我們這個醫療體系去做一系列的這個檢查那因為醫院來講對他來講是一個很困難的一個理解所以我就想請問現在我們的新住民門診"},{"start":4586.118,"end":4604.877,"text":"也挺棒的 我想當然不只單單想問北榮我想問問我們的榮總那如果說新住民到我們榮總區的話如果他需要這個多國語言的這個協助的話目前我們的機制到底有哪一些協助的方案我要請陳院長跟您報告一下"},{"start":4607.145,"end":4631.358,"text":"謝謝委員提出這麼重要的一個議題那過去榮總當時2018年成立新竹門診後來會無疾而終的主要原因是因為台北榮總主要是來治療急重難寒他分科又分得非常的細如果每一個門診都設的話第一個護理師人力不足醫師人力不足每天可能各科只看到一兩個病人所以最後我們就把它改成一個"},{"start":4633.519,"end":4660.515,"text":"一個聯絡電話一個專線服務電話讓他們有問題可以打電話來我們幫他分派你這個問題可能是哪一科的那可以讓他去那邊看不過呢我在臨床上我現在在看門診也常常看到我們的新住民北榮的新住民的門診我們根據拘留證的號碼一個月大概兩千人一個月有兩千人一個月大概兩千人有兩千人呢當然照顧他們非常的重要那現在我們發現一個事情來的要嘛自己會講一點中文"},{"start":4661.516,"end":4679.316,"text":"要嘛會講一點英文要嘛都有家屬而且現在的手機每一個人都有翻譯軟體他一拿出來之後如果講不通就可以跟我翻譯我們一起跟他對話聊天也沒有什麼問題眼神交會也可以溝通那如果再不行會碰到需要通譯翻譯人員的是在急診"},{"start":4680.177,"end":4701.504,"text":"因為送急診的人他突然可能一個勞工那他宿傷了到急診室他不能臨時找到家屬來的時候什麼沒辦法溝通我們醫院有越南語有日語這通醫的人員隨時他會來幫忙所以我們在醫院裡面其實就有常駐的通醫人員我們國際大中心有兩位"},{"start":4703.124,"end":4714.576,"text":"精通越南語其中有一位是越南國營電視台的英文主播那他的幫我們很多很多忙他為什麼來榮總服務是因為孩子到榮總來換肝成功他會來報答台灣"},{"start":4718.516,"end":4727.643,"text":"是 那當然剛剛院長有提到就是說我們有所謂的服務專線那我們服務專線的餘種因為說實在的因為我們在前兩天其實有跟我們輔導會這邊聯繫是說我們有服務專線其實我們到這個我們的網頁去看的話我們找不到這個專門為新住民服務的這個服務專線所以我們也不知道它藏在什麼地方如果這個服務專線是那麼難"},{"start":4746.978,"end":4765.75,"text":"找的話其實它是沒有功能的所以我們不曉得說到底這服務專線在哪裡那當然院長提到說其實在我們醫院裡面其實都有這個同意人員可是在服務專線方面可能院長可能要幫我們尋找一下因為我們在網頁上找不到那還有一點就是說我們在我們的專門的網頁裡面專頁裡面有看到就是說我們有英文"},{"start":4771.153,"end":4790.046,"text":"有英文的這個是親南向國家的語言像越南啊 印尼我們找不到那舉個例子來講我們有進到另外一家就是說這個台北市立的聯合醫院它有提供這個新住民的友善門診之外呢它也有外語同意查詢服務比如說它的外語同意服務它有"},{"start":4791.506,"end":4816.854,"text":"印尼語、越南語甚至還有緬甸語那我不曉得說我們榮總有沒有提供這個線上的這個外語的同意服務我們不曉得因為他那個還有時段喔所以這個的話我想說榮總是不是來參考一下那另外呢還有就是說我有看到有新竹縣衛生局所主導的北區醫療網其實它有結合醫療同意資源呢推出了新著名就醫手指書"},{"start":4818.034,"end":4826.436,"text":"這個是就醫的小幫手我想這種種都可以來提供服務那當然那個剛剛我們院長有提到說我們現在有手機隨時可以做翻譯可是翻譯是不是準確不知道可是我是覺得像這個北區醫療網他所提供的這個新住民就醫手指數他從掛號片診斷片到領藥片他都有非常清楚的這個指示比如說我們舉個例子來講我們畫面上顯示的是越南語的部分你看掛號片他有"},{"start":4849.382,"end":4856.606,"text":"就算你聽不懂這個中文不是很理解在掛號的時候他就直接在這個上面就說請問你要掛號嗎請問你是初診嗎是或否那請填寫初診單字類"},{"start":4862.469,"end":4890.069,"text":"他都有這個我是覺得應該是還蠻好用的所以我是在想說為了新住民跟外籍人士的這個禁用性我覺得有很多的這個小小的一些指導我覺得都很需要那我們知道說當然我們有專業的這個通訊人員可是我們在想說如果再給他們多一點輔助的話對這個新住民跟外籍人士的這個禁用性呢可以有很大的這個幫助"},{"start":4891.041,"end":4905.958,"text":"真的非常感謝委員今天我下午回去就交代同仁處理一定要讓他放在很明顯的地方讓我們新住民的好朋友容易找到榮總因為我們找不到服務專線一定讓他很快找到OK好以上謝謝謝謝委員謝謝羅美玲委員接下來我們邀請黃榮委員來進行諮詢"},{"start":4921.52,"end":4945.865,"text":"謝主席,有請我們主委還有北農院長好,我們請主委跟院長黃委員好主委好那個,我針對這個北農的話,院長衛福部日前公布一四年度婦理友善職場典範的一個認證計畫那典範醫院名單"},{"start":4951.598,"end":4979.353,"text":"本席非常意外的是一直被認為負病比名列前茅的一個台北龍總竟然沒有醫學中心等級的前六名那請問院長原因為何那後來我查了一下那近五年的全國醫療機構全日平均負病比是1.11"},{"start":4981.747,"end":5000.899,"text":"主要就是一個婦理室差不多照顧到11個那我們北農平均來講都是1.8那如果以整個平均約1.72所以院長你來說明一下好不好"},{"start":5002.045,"end":5030.294,"text":"非常感謝黃委員提出這麼重要一個議題讓我有機會來表達其實台北榮總過去最引以為傲的是我們的工職比例是全國最高佔了將近七成那成大只有三成多那其他醫院 部立醫院兩成多可是現在因為法規的修訂要保護員工的安全危勞降臨現在55歲護理師就可以提早退休領退休金"},{"start":5031.955,"end":5048.633,"text":"對榮總造成一些很大的影響因為這群很有經驗在榮總貢獻這麼久的護理師他會選擇在去年年底之前就退休他領退休金到私人醫療機構去服務甚至到長照這個為國家高興他們可以幫"},{"start":5049.741,"end":5065.853,"text":"我們的私人體系也是在造福我們台灣但是我心裡面是非常的痛因為我怎麼去努力營造好的環境怎麼去補人都來不及這些公職護理師的優勢加上現在政府的規定"},{"start":5067.605,"end":5088.178,"text":"公家機關的護理師,如果不是主管60歲一定要退,私人醫院沒有這個規定,他們更到65有些人60歲以後他體力非常好,眼睛都很好,打針也很準,可是他不得已他就要退所以如果是這個法令可以修改,對台北榮總會有非常大的幫忙"},{"start":5089.198,"end":5109.45,"text":"那所以北龍為了要穩定其實我們去年的離職率是這幾年最低我們留任率這幾年最高也收了283位新的護理師可是呢公職護理師的提前退休把所有的努力都打折了所以沒辦法拿到這個獎但是我可以委員報告台北龍總護理師"},{"start":5111.351,"end":5126.877,"text":"效能的濃度應該全國數一數二的應該不是全國第一就是第二這個我是本席肯定但是現在你提出的問題是不是有檢討的空間提出"},{"start":5128.857,"end":5152.79,"text":"來讓我們整個院會的立法委員是不是看看是不是有其他的一些補救的方案因為現在如果以法令的一政策來講的話是對未來北農不管是全國的農種都會有相當的影響報告委員55歲威牢降臨其實我看起來是短空長多"},{"start":5154.127,"end":5173.89,"text":"短期會流失很多人不過呢這個是護理師他從事公職他的福利我們不能擋他以後可以領退休金又可以領備全新四人運的全新這個不能擋但是如果在60歲的退休有些人就想要留在公職希望能做到65歲這塊立法院如果可以幫我們解套"},{"start":5174.949,"end":5203.871,"text":"我們不如小補可以留下一些願意留在公家醫院服務的人到65歲再退不像私人醫院他們可以留那麼久這個是這一點讓他們用自願制也不要影響護理師的權益可是兼顧可以照顧我們國家公立醫院的醫療那現在呢我們真的很努力去拼這個事情所以還好榮總有新的優質的護理師宿舍否則現在整個崩盤當國家疫情在一起"},{"start":5204.741,"end":5224.523,"text":"我們公立醫院會造成很大的影響走第一線的都是公家機關的醫院所以我希望政府多給我們支持讓我們護理師更幸福讓我們人可以留得更多否則現在釋放這麼多利多已經把所有的能放老都放出來了可是四人醫院每天的廣告"},{"start":5226.336,"end":5250.526,"text":"臨終獎金六個月十個月我就預估無類公家機關最多一天五個月那競爭力在哪裡所以這個法規沒有修訂之前所以我們永總的美食街停車場業外收入不能拿來發獎金如果這個業外收入我可以來發獎金我把同仁照顧得更好吃一碗麵就是來照顧醫護同仁以上向委員報告很好"},{"start":5251.519,"end":5266.196,"text":"你提出這個議題來講也讓我們很多的委員都了解看看是不是我們來共同一起研究如何讓這一些醫護人員從他的自發性"},{"start":5266.897,"end":5290.575,"text":"包含他的自願意以及他借領到這個退休的時候能不能留下來那當然我們以他的一個尊重他的自發性願意來留下來來繼續為這些義父我們的這個龍總醫院的病人來做一個造福這是很好的一個政策那我想"},{"start":5291.595,"end":5303.421,"text":"這個我們會你們也提出一些方案給我們做一個參考好不好以上謝謝謝謝委員指導謝謝黃仁委員接下來我們請王定雲委員上台質詢"},{"start":5317.503,"end":5328.719,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩主委請主委主委怎麼感覺好像好久不見了那個主席應該常常排退府會來報告才對這個"},{"start":5334.264,"end":5362.848,"text":"主委辛苦了有一個事情剛好問你是最對的因為你擔任部長的時候我們也討論過這個話題有關軍民專長的轉嫌平台那這是本席在2024年當時的質詢也就是我們在軍中的職業軍人或者一般的軍人他有軍中專長嘛我裝甲兵我炮兵我有自己的專長但是呢我們軍中的袍澤他會利用公於"},{"start":5363.834,"end":5388.46,"text":"的時間可能去進修啊會拿到學位會拿到檢定會拿到證照嘛或者他有其他特殊專長廚藝啊各方面所以當時我在質詢的時候就建議說部隊的現役軍人這些自己進修各方面的專長包含軍中的專長應該跟人事部門登載在兵籍資料電子兵資裡面而這一個資料"},{"start":5389.744,"end":5412.929,"text":"也不能當作我軍隊裡面要把你派用你原來私底下有這個專長那我派你去開怪手不行那這有加一個前提我們也提了一個臨時提案在2024年那個主委你可以看一下在立法院公報這個有登載在裡面也就是官兵的電子兵資在退伍之後國防部應該把這一個電子兵資轉給"},{"start":5415.154,"end":5436.409,"text":"退府會由退府會根據這樣的專長不管是訓練或者輔導就業讓軍中的專長不管是原來部隊的專長或者工於進修的專長便於銜接他的第二職業我覺得對我們軍人跑則是很重要一件事情比如說我們很多運輸官現在在台鐵開火車"},{"start":5437.89,"end":5452.527,"text":"或者我們有一些EMTJ我們急救兵的專長也許未來可以輔導到衛福部做護佐來解決這個醫護的不足的部分所以當時做的這個建議我還特別提到說這一些"},{"start":5454.062,"end":5481.213,"text":"與職業務無關的自己進修的學位啦證照檢定證明等等我們放在人事的兵資資料裡面但是不要把它拿來當作他在職業軍人的調動那是你在部長那一塊我現在回到退輔會我看你們這一次的業報裡面有把這個放進去了這個我先謝謝表示我們在其實已經快兩年了兩年前的建議現在退輔會有要把它納入所以我現在請教兩個問題第一個"},{"start":5483.553,"end":5509.887,"text":"國防部把電子兵資移到退府會這一塊有沒有困難沒有困難取得沒有問題嗎有沒有各資的問題啊各方面都不會沒有問題所以你們現在有取得了嗎我們這個系統是跟勞動部的各分署桃竹苗分署鏈接的你們右手右手是跟國防部的兵資資料是國防部的人事嘛左手是跟那個勞動部的輔導就業那我們自己退府會"},{"start":5510.447,"end":5537.806,"text":"也有給這些退伍軍人的訓練啊 輔導嘛我們退伍會這邊輔導去民間就業我們那時候還有薪資補助六千 一萬二等等做得還不錯所以如果兵資資料取得沒有問題的話我可不可以大膽建議主委因為我看你們的夜報說希望在明年一月份正式啟用現在才四月真的不要像我們國會在審查年度預算一樣拖了半年什麼事都沒做這個可以快一點嗎"},{"start":5540.444,"end":5556.713,"text":"可不可以提早 就是不要到明年 你賓資的移轉沒有問題了嘛然後呢 我們的輔導就業訓練現有就有一個體系了嘛那我們現在是不是可以儘速啟用 不要拖到明年1月好 謝謝委員的關心各位委員報告 我們現在758項的這個軍職專長在這個月底會完全盤出來"},{"start":5561.215,"end":5585.589,"text":"那但是還是需要去做專家的去那個做一些校正那重點是我們因為要透過一個御用平台將來在廣為御用御用平台是在哪御用平台是在我們的現有的那個就業服務網裡面我會擴充那這個呢需要去時間因為他是1月3月而且我還有AI就業智能服務10月才能夠完成不管是AI或者不AI"},{"start":5587.11,"end":5604.122,"text":"這個東西其實就是他在部隊的兵資資料裡面他到底有什麼什麼專長有沒有什麼證照 廚師以及證照或者是重機具操作證照或者是某某大學管理學院畢業碩士這些東西你們第一個要做的是分類這分類我建議怎麼分類呢"},{"start":5606.561,"end":5630.6,"text":"看勞動部的就業服務的分類跟他對在一起那對在一起之後就把軍中的兵資轉成輔導就業的那個序號是一樣的那這樣就連在一起了這時候你有兩個好處第一個勞動部這邊現在有1000個就業需求電子業的有多少台積電要多少或者是餐飲業有多少那個序號就可以對著上來然後現在我們"},{"start":5631.4,"end":5652.654,"text":"部隊的弟兄姊妹退伍了他這幾個符合那個專長你可以告訴他說那裡有六個職缺這裡有八個職缺你可以過去這第一個好處所以那個序號要對接第二個對於你們自己開辦的職訓或者有尋才有一些企業透過你們要尋才的也可以透過這樣子直接媒合那這個事情其實不用太久時間啦"},{"start":5653.855,"end":5669.472,"text":"認真做的話因為這種分類一個禮拜就可以做得完我們王委員也是勞工專家這個不會太久他要立切的建交跟委員報告一下他這個系統大概三個部分第一個就是君子專長您剛剛指導的他什麼專長750多項專長然後第二個欄位就是他可以因為我們跨部會"},{"start":5676.539,"end":5698.377,"text":"經濟部 還有勞動部 教育部相關的工作 民間的職位有哪些最後一欄第三欄就是你的證照你必須獲得什麼證照端子所以這個可能要經過跨部會這些產官 學者剛剛我們處長講 還要再做驗證就要check一下 因為這700多太多了我樂見啦 因為我是前年主辦終於在今年我看到你們業報有這個內容了"},{"start":5699.918,"end":5727.745,"text":"那我不下時間啦 我期待可以快一點因為你到明年1月 今年退伍的人能快我們盡量會快就是說隨時都會有人退伍嘛然後這個主席站起來 我最後給他看個表格看一個 我常常說我們退伍會持股比例跟我們輔導官兵就業最起碼數據要相當我盯了大概四五年了大概從邱國正當退伍會主委到現在很多年了"},{"start":5729.141,"end":5745.355,"text":"到目前為止如果你去看我前幾年提供的表格有 有改善退幅會做得不錯確實數據有提升但我一直很納悶耶新章天然氣是哪是哪根筋有問題為什麼就只有它不配合就是說你看喔我們本來一片都紅字喔我們持股26%"},{"start":5746.656,"end":5772.654,"text":"安置率呢以前都低於這個%數就是說我們的持股比例跟安置比例以前都有落差都紅字經過我們這幾年我每次質詢都盯這個事情我持股比例跟我安置就業比例最起碼相當嘛因為退輔會存在的最重要的功能就是幫助國軍退出於官兵能夠就業而且官兵位置不論官大官小我們都要幫他從基層到將領"},{"start":5773.675,"end":5797.348,"text":"那經過這幾年努力我看起來不錯從新南到新平大概數據都是正的只有新章天然氣公司它的安置率竟然不足13%然後我們再看我們會派的會見的董事長會見的總經理有的有會派的有的沒有會派的那我們如果看一下"},{"start":5798.599,"end":5813.978,"text":"新章的話 我這邊沒有新章的新章好像沒有會派的我們持股高達三成多在一般民間企業持股這麼高其實都可以控制董事會了那為什麼新章的安置率這麼低能不能告訴我答案"},{"start":5814.42,"end":5830.647,"text":"那委員 新章從109他只有10%現在已經進步到20%就是在委員的資助10%也太低了我們34%持股耶然後那個主委你看一下會見董事長跟會見總經理洪志也是只有新章"},{"start":5831.863,"end":5858.192,"text":"五位我們退府會持股就算很低的薪高21%好歹還總經理是我們派的就新章我們有34%董事長不是我們派的總經理不是我們派的然後我們推薦的退俗衣官兵就業率又遠低於我們持股比率為什麼全部只有新章我就公開點名就只有新章他們的民間持股是誰"},{"start":5859.512,"end":5874.887,"text":"他流動率比較低人員流動率比較低所以這個牽涉到安置根據統計不會只有新章很特別那我們也知道以前歷史的因素相對持股的民間持股多數都是地方的政治人物新章到底對照是誰"},{"start":5875.627,"end":5900.952,"text":"委員好 這個新章是我們新雄 新南 新章這三家都是租家的那為什麼租家在新章這麼難配合因為他們持股超過百分之五十 將近百分之六十租家的持股超過百分之六十你說新高新南 安置也不錯啊我們有會見總經理啊 為什麼獨獨新章三無安置比率低"},{"start":5902.192,"end":5920.122,"text":"吳慧健董事長吳慧健總經理其實我們一直在努力朱家很能溝通朱家的新熊他已經開放給我們了那我們還要努力包含新南新章都要努力新章在中部新章在中部地區所以為了這個我們特別請我們副副主委"},{"start":5920.982,"end":5941.137,"text":"到他公司擔任董事從去年開始去年底就這樣講是我們這個副主委這個辦事不力不是不是他去要求他你剛才一講我就覺得是他辦事不力他當個董事什麼都沒完成啊三個都沒有啊這樣副主委好幾年不在因為他不在我們兩個可以好好檢討他沒關係不是這樣子他因為副主委去努力我們也把這樣好不好時間關係這個"},{"start":5943.679,"end":5964.591,"text":"這幾年確實有進步真的那個這個原主委可以去調我前幾年提供的數據以前是一片紅字啊現在只剩新章再努力一下好不好安置比例跟持服比例至少相當那最起碼要有個會見總經理我們可以訓練管理人才從高階將領到基層的官司兵都有個就業機會好不好新章我下次還會再檢討那我們也透過今天"},{"start":5966.117,"end":5989.23,"text":"國會頻道新章也聽進去安置我們退除役官兵尤其中部的官兵我覺得做得到盡力去做了好不好謝謝主委我們再努力謝謝委員指導謝謝王定宇委員接下來請王安祥委員謝謝主席有請主委有請主委"},{"start":5996.417,"end":6015.106,"text":"王委員好主委長剛剛看到王委員在講有關於轉嫌因為我看到輔導會的報告裡面其實跟我們在勞動方面的一些尤其是一些轉嫌其實有非常大的關係我想有空我大概跟大家就教一下"},{"start":6015.726,"end":6044.918,"text":"因為在我們這個專業裡面其實跟王委員剛剛講的一樣第一就是我們其實有一些職能的分析啦也許可以協助輔導會在這個轉弦上會有一些更好的一個促進的結果那我看到這個在報告裡面不管是這個就學輔導還是就業媒合上其實都我覺得都還不錯啦這個不管是人次啦或人啦這個基本上都還不錯那我想那個有一個居民專長的轉弦嘛那現在也有做一些平台啦"},{"start":6046.426,"end":6065.496,"text":"因為最近我發現一個狀況就是好像大家年輕人包括我們那些學生去報考公職的狀況好像意願比較低一點點我想福壯會這邊有沒有因為這樣多去推薦一些退輔的人員能夠轉入公職的部分"},{"start":6067.456,"end":6091.183,"text":"我們每一年有這些特考進來的公職人員轉進來我們都有名額空給他們對所以考卷部那邊他2016、2032他其實都做了一些這個調整而且科目有減少那我們這個我辦公室去做了一下這個我們去考卷部查了一下就是這個人數我們發現這個人數好像報考人數有逐漸下降的狀況不曉得這個狀況不曉得部長會這邊有沒有講過"},{"start":6097.913,"end":6122.77,"text":"還是我們查到的資料是不是正確?這是特考的部分所以這個部分人數好像越來越少對不對不曉得有沒有什麼輔導的機制可以讓他們考去報考這個所謂特考的人數這個輔導在國安部就有做"},{"start":6123.69,"end":6137.667,"text":"國安部他只要報名 國安部有一個機制就是利用時間來給他們考試 科目讀取輔導這幾年考試入局率還是蠻高的那這個人數也有可能跟退伍人數有關係退伍人數少 他報考自然就會少"},{"start":6138.755,"end":6162.196,"text":"對 因為好像前一陣子有報導媒體有報導那個南投之光我不曉得主委知不知道這個事情就是他們好像有輔導一些質押的轉嫌然後可以考一些什麼像什麼監所的人員我覺得這是很好啦那是不是這個委員這邊可以 主委這邊可以針對這個部分可以提供這個所謂我們的這個退役的這些軍職的人員可以多一點這樣的機會"},{"start":6169.008,"end":6172.01,"text":"委員好 我是就學監事處處長池玉蘭跟您報告其實我們很鼓勵我們的退出一官兵能夠轉任公職所以我們在公職的輔導上面我們都有給他那個國營事業或者公職的一個就業輔導"},{"start":6184.278,"end":6212.921,"text":"他一生有五萬塊的一個輔導的經歷你去補習買參考書等等你只要去考公職我們都會給他補助那另外有關於我們還有一個退暑衣特考退暑衣每兩年有一次退暑衣特考其實我們都鼓勵我們的很多的場合活動場合我們都鼓勵我們的退暑衣官兵能夠轉到我們的這個這個公職的路上我想因為軍事人員很多其實都蠻優秀的啦而且這幾年我發現這個公職人員辦好都是一直在下降"},{"start":6213.621,"end":6241.05,"text":"其實那個就是那邊的問題啦我也會去關鍵不過也希望啦一些我想非常優秀的軍人能夠繼續留在這個公職啦能夠繼續幫協助國家做一些協助那另外就是有關於另外一個問題啦就是有關於這個比較這個屬於這個基金的部分啦那可以看到我們那個他的那個收入的部分啦有一些受證的收入那受證收入的部分啦其實我們有看到好像逐年有減少的狀況啦"},{"start":6242.622,"end":6254.463,"text":"就授政的部分我不曉得這個針對這個授政的部分這個有沒有什麼因應可以增加這個授政的收入的部分提供提高一些所謂的捐贈收入的部分"},{"start":6256.265,"end":6279.075,"text":"這個我們在榮民榮建基金會一直在注意這件事情因為這個對榮民榮建的照顧也跟我們服務照顧處跟榮副處有關係我們希望能夠充分運用地方社會的這些資源擴展一些這些外面的捐贈因為我看到好像我們有編了一些推廣"},{"start":6280.677,"end":6288.672,"text":"媒體政策或是業務宣導的一些費用,都編了大概四百萬左右我想這樣的成效,不曉得有沒有什麼具體的成效"},{"start":6292.165,"end":6320.649,"text":"委員好,我是榮民榮業基金會秘書長跟委員報告,有關於榮民遺症部分其實我們在我們的董事會裡面也有提出就是說希望把我們相關的宣導製成圖卡在今年部分我們會到各榮家去做相關的活動也會把這些訊息提供給我們所有的榮家讓這些榮民在百年之後如果可以就把相關的這些遺症給我們基金會讓我們做妥善的運用,所以可以做善的循環"},{"start":6321.309,"end":6346.317,"text":"所以我們今年再積極地做這件事情好 OK OK因為我看到真的是有逐漸減少的一個趨勢啦也請這個主委這邊特別關注這個事情另外就是我看到你們的這個財務的報表的部分啦發現你們這個資息的部分很多其實都是存在定存裡面啦都是定存的資息的部分我想這個可能跟那個組織的章程可能有關係啦不過這幾年因為我想這個現在社會都很動盪嘛很多都這個"},{"start":6347.817,"end":6364.637,"text":"這個不管是股市啦其實都不是很穩定啦也許啦也許這個定存是一個不錯的方法不過呢因為通膨最近實在蠻嚴重的我想針對這個部分有沒有可能做一些調整讓這個定存的不再是這麼高的比例大概90幾%都是從定存的部分"},{"start":6366.584,"end":6393.303,"text":"各位我們基金會面的這個大概定存的金額大概是23億多那我們都選擇了這個利率比較高的包含這個地方的銀行還有郵局我們現在存放的地方大概六家的這些公庫銀行大概平均利率大概一年是1.7%所以比其他的郵局比其他的銀行都要來得高那我們也投資我們會裡面所屬事業單位的股票那年度面獲利的狀況也都超過2%所以基本上獲利是很穩定的"},{"start":6394.344,"end":6412.309,"text":"是 是 因為最近這個其實金融不是非常穩定本期也希望這個輔導會這邊還是密切觀察這個機器的一個狀況好 感謝謝謝 謝委員謝謝 王安祥委員接下來我們要請林柱昀委員上台諮詢"},{"start":6424.311,"end":6427.992,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請嚴主委我們請主委林委員好主委好今天我要質詢的一個議題是比較嚴肅的雖然我們都知道在退輔會的部分很多的題目當然都是著重一種服務的部分但是在服務的部分裡頭呢有一個就是跟公車有關"},{"start":6450.56,"end":6479.242,"text":"那麼過去我其實在委員會當中不只一次的質詢有關於經濟部或國安局就是我們的公車系統裡面如果有中國製造的話那麼會非常危險它形同是一台這個中國放在台灣內部的不論是真房車、間諜車等等那麼現在我要您看一下這是我們在我們新興跟大南客運當中的環景系統所以環景系統就是公車在路上跑但是"},{"start":6480.163,"end":6497.796,"text":"它為了安全起見所以它會拍攝到許多的路人車子跟街景而現在呢 居然被抓到的是我們的公車系統當中用的是海思晶片海思晶片 海思半導體它是什麼樣的一個"},{"start":6499.357,"end":6527.744,"text":"民營企業呢是中國中華人民共和國廣東省深郡市言下之意他就是華為底下的公司而新興跟大南客運所使用的中國海思晶片晶片就在台灣我們雙北地區的公車跑來跑去這是一個非常嚴重的國安問題而且我現在"},{"start":6528.864,"end":6544.09,"text":"給的這張畫面是提供給我的人所拍攝時機在公車上面直擊下來的他甚至於企圖去塗抹把這個海思晶片的Logo把它去除掉"},{"start":6545.526,"end":6567.945,"text":"我在4月7號所資的時候當時第一時間新興跟大南所說的這些公車品牌都講到了它的環境系統產地有台灣有荷蘭但是經過我提供了這個照片之後4月8號所更正的資料裡面發現確實沒錯新興客運它的公車廠牌是創意"},{"start":6572.609,"end":6600.127,"text":"系統商是誠意而他使用的晶片是製造地中國大南客運同樣有這一間公車的廠牌跟他的系統商他所用的環景系統依舊是中國我第一時間要求提供採購時間為什麼因為我在想會不會是多年以前的合約所以以至於誤用了所謂的中國製造的晶片但是我發現採購時間竟然是"},{"start":6602.75,"end":6610.725,"text":"最接近的114年言下之意就是2025年也就是去年所以這整體的事件我要請"},{"start":6612.165,"end":6639.94,"text":"主委好好的來調查跟了解而目前對於這樣的一個廠商因為我們都知道在我們的這個切結書當中都有特別提到的就是嚴禁中國製造結果就這麼巧是一個拍攝台灣台北市雙北街景的環境系統裡面竟然就用了中國製造的晶片"},{"start":6640.62,"end":6641.761,"text":"所以說對於這樣的一個完全把切結書視為無物的廠商或者是系統商請問一下主委我們應該要如何來處置跟處理"},{"start":6653.727,"end":6682.515,"text":"現在委員提供這個資訊我們也認為這個非常嚴重不能用中國大陸的這個製品是不可以的我們查目前這兩家公司的電動公車這個環境系統它是按照當初是按照政府採購法公告來採購也是交通部審驗合格的廠牌跟車型但是合約規範裡面就已經規範不可以使用中國的一些產製品這在合約規範裡面有的而且交通部當初也叫廠商做切結都已經完成這些程序了"},{"start":6683.075,"end":6698.227,"text":"而且目前我们查到的确是有这两家公司有违规的这个违反违反契约的这个中国制的一个产品我们现在的做法就是我们呃成立一个专业小组啊要去做全面的普查看这公司里面到底还有哪些"},{"start":6698.928,"end":6713.556,"text":"晶片是屬於這個公司的所有的全面做一個普查這是第一個第二個當然就是要提出球場向廠商追廠按照契約並且要更換這些所有的產品那目前跟委員做以上的報告"},{"start":6714.444,"end":6723.35,"text":"因為根據我現在手上的資料就是這兩家客運公司在雙北地區營運加起來是有700輛也就是新興有474輛而大南有259輛但是不全部都是這兩家廠商所以目前為止這一家廠商所以我要詢問的就是創意的公車品牌裡面的系統上使用的誠意的這個部分有幾輛"},{"start":6744.204,"end":6746.265,"text":"星星有幾亮 大南有幾亮現在有數字嗎 還是還在清查當中因為如果根據合約的話所以我要知道的是到底還有多少個這個MIC 就中國製造的晶片正在每天喔 在陸上 在雙北的"},{"start":6760.69,"end":6780.367,"text":"公車路線上不斷的在拍攝因為我們都知道海思過去一直有個狀況就是他會回傳這個所謂後門的系統包括之前也有說這個海思的晶片會把家裡面的狀況是回傳到中國去那麼我們從去年114年這個合約簽訂之後到底已經跑了多少趟多少的公車這個其實是更要注意的"},{"start":6789.532,"end":6795.154,"text":"兩家公司的電動車總共兩家是244輛新興是175大蘭是69那現在出問題這個誠意公司的新興是61輛大蘭是21輛所以總共有問題的是82輛好"},{"start":6806.818,"end":6836.028,"text":"那麼這82輛有多少時間去做調度比如說他們是不是即刻起不能上路然後要花多少時間讓他們更換回來不是中國系統的晶片這個有沒有一個工作期程跟時間點我們已經請兩家公司要按照這個重大事件的處理馬上就開始啟動已經在處理處理的時間大概是要多少我再跟委員做個回覆"},{"start":6836.308,"end":6852.096,"text":"好對於這樣的系統商我希望能夠列入黑名單那麼當然黑名單的部分也跟經濟部有關所以這個部分我也會去跟經濟部跟交通部來做進一步的質詢因為對於你們來講他們一定是給你們就像剛主委您說的是給了一個"},{"start":6853.871,"end":6869.947,"text":"可以來做採購的安全的名單嗎那這個部分我希望你們也回報給經濟部讓他們知道那我也會同樣帶著這份資料去相關的部門做質詢好不好我們一定交通部反映了好所以大家一起來做好OK謝謝委員謝謝謝謝林楚英委員接下來我們邀請王逸川委員"},{"start":6887.895,"end":6911.285,"text":"好 謝謝導委 我們請主委我們請主委王委員好好 謝謝主委首先要很感謝我們各地的榮民醫院到服務鄉親都做得很好因為你們做得很好 所以立法委員經常會接到電話"},{"start":6914.696,"end":6925.644,"text":"說鄉親在急診室看上面有沒有病床可以上去這一個部分我想這個量能的關係鄉親認為好的醫院都遇到這個問題"},{"start":6929.767,"end":6948.574,"text":"那我也看到台中榮總有新的大樓在興建是不是請台中榮總的院長報告一下目前這些新的建物到台中去看有一些土木工程也都在蓋現在目前的進度是如何"},{"start":6950.213,"end":6976.751,"text":"好 謝謝委員的詢問那目前我們在蓋第三醫療大樓那為了因應我們中部地區高齡化所以我們會跟衛福部申請台中榮總長期分院那目前預計是118年3月完工目前進度超前渴望可能這一兩年就會提早完工這是一點那第二個案子就是為了照顧我們的護理醫事人員"},{"start":6978.112,"end":7001.048,"text":"今年會預計動工是一個醫護宿舍可以提供我們大概單人套房提供給護理師一個月的租金預計是1500塊而已然後再來就是為了因應我們現在有個子子治療中心那目前硬體已經在這個月會完工那預計大概六月會開幕那我請問一下"},{"start":7002.25,"end":7031.689,"text":"如果你們那裡的這個收入啊是就是整體的收入比較高的時候你會加薪水嗎有我們一直在幫你啦你我自己喔我自己目前應該是我們會有個規定的上限所以大概我個人是不會啦那我是說會不會因為要收就是說收益比較多所以裡面的這一個管理階層就會加薪水有沒有這件事"},{"start":7033.157,"end":7048.564,"text":"目前我們沒有這個制度中榮的制度管理階層應該是比較固定我要提這個問題是主委我們這些包括榮總 榮民醫院各地的這個農場那這些應該思考的是"},{"start":7051.435,"end":7068.326,"text":"不是要賺錢啦 一方面照顧我們這些榮民、榮眷那有一些是重新的就業 二方面也是照顧鄉親跟國人所以我最近有看到報告在檢討什麼榮民醫院、榮總什麼收集、表現怎麼樣"},{"start":7074.75,"end":7084.818,"text":"我是覺得,我們算是退伍會的便宜,不必想那麼多不必想說這會賺不賺,這比較沒意思第二個,我們這個退伍會有一個單位去承攬了空勤總隊跟總統專機的機棚請問目前這個案子的進度如何?"},{"start":7101.206,"end":7105.784,"text":"根據委員報告,我們主要執行的是泛亞工程公司"},{"start":7107.031,"end":7134.268,"text":"那這個案子它總共分成ABCD再有四個工程四個工程裡面A、C、D這三個工程案目前進入的超前進入的超前的這是一個整體的一個總包案那問題出在這個B棟這個B棟那B棟主要是我們工程公司覺得這裡面的設計有問題這問題就是安全的問題如果照原來的設計規範這樣走下去的話"},{"start":7137.279,"end":7154.446,"text":"會有問題所以現在停工停工然後現在是向工程會來申訴他們是希望解約工程公司希望能夠解約工程公司希望因為對方沒有要修改設計那前面如果重來的話要修設計要delay多久"},{"start":7159.485,"end":7188.54,"text":"那工程公司說如果你把設計修完了之後是安全無慮狀況下他可以接受他現在目前看這個設計的狀況他是可以說如期完工如果要修這個設計但你不修設計那你沒辦法做設計圖啊所以我知道那就是說如果現在去修了那個設計設計圖他們就可以如期完工如期解約如期完工關鍵就是要修設計圖"},{"start":7189.721,"end":7211.529,"text":"那所以要不要修設計現在工程會在處理中他們現在已經申訴到工程會這工程會在協助工程會在處理就是說他們最後會按照雙方的狀況是那工程會也開過第一次的會議了那工程會也認為這個設計圖是有問題的所以現在就是工程會在處理那如果解了約重新做了設計"},{"start":7212.529,"end":7232.094,"text":"按照目前的進度看起來它是可以如期完工可以如期完工因為這四個ABCD ACD都是超前的OK 好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝王逸川委員王委員等一下再麻煩感謝 謝謝接下來我們邀請劉許廷委員謝謝主席 菸主委有請"},{"start":7249.975,"end":7276.843,"text":"劉委員好主委你好這個我們退伏會的服務對象是為了這些國家犧牲青春保衛家園的退役官兵那我想他們的待遇跟照顧品質是很重要的是我們對軍人服役價值的承諾之一所以今天跟這個主委針對業務報告一些內容做一下討論希望可以這個加強政策的品質第一個要討論的一下是榮家的環境因為現在這個"},{"start":7278.983,"end":7298.105,"text":"優化農家醫養環境現在講說各農家的總床位數在8800多床占床數大概是7100那在占床比是80%表示說這個使用率其實算相對高那麼使用率高的時候它其實代表一件事就是說退輔會要提供服務量能當然它就很吃緊那"},{"start":7298.886,"end":7313.191,"text":"本期有了解到,這個退府會今年1月1號起,其實奉行政院核定這個針對人力,護理人力的部分,從委外改成約用,就禁用那合佩,核定是338人,那合佩現在要用的是318位的護理人員"},{"start":7315.592,"end":7336.813,"text":"那很重要啊現在既然佔床率蠻高的我們要知道說你這個制度做修正之後這些護理人員有沒有準時如實的到位以確保容家的服務品質所以請問主委我們現在從委外轉為約用或者是在過渡等等現在護理人員318名合配的護理人員目前通通到位了嗎實際到位多少人招募的進度怎麼樣"},{"start":7337.453,"end":7358.187,"text":"包圍378那個是總數的編制就百分之一百你通通到位的話佔項列都滿的話要那麼多人但我們現在是佔項列百分之八成所以現在的人力318是足以夠了是可以滿足需求318已經全部到位了是可以到位了到位了現在喔這個他們到位的時間多長"},{"start":7361.164,"end":7367.73,"text":"到位今年1月1號就1月1號啟用開始就到位啟用開始就到位有沒有人離職"},{"start":7371.579,"end":7399.037,"text":"有啊 好 這就本席想問的因為其實大家都知道嘛這個當然不是純然是退輔會的責任但因為護理師在台灣是有名的血汗這個工作之一啊那這個人員的穩定性這也常常被大家來討論那既然它牽涉這個容價的服務品質所以我也想了解一下現在它提供的待遇等等環境足不足以讓它穩定的長久留任所以現在從一月到四月雖然時間還不是很長但是大概三 我剛好就想問這三個月你留任率是多少"},{"start":7400.186,"end":7420.288,"text":"多少人留下來 哪些人離開 有沒有這樣的問題跟狀況這個制度調整他大概多 薪資可以調高四千多塊當然可能有些交通因素或其他的考量會有一些離職的所以現在大概的留任率是多少98以上所以現在離職的比較還可以歸 可能是個案或個人生涯規劃好這件事我們要長期來做追蹤"},{"start":7420.808,"end":7432.597,"text":"但我就這邊做一下提醒就是說第一量能要能夠維持第二這些人的待遇我們要盡量給他維持這樣才能維護農家的這個品質這是第一個題目那第二個這個現在喔"},{"start":7434.129,"end":7461.371,"text":"關心完榮嘉就換比較大的榮民醫院因為這台北榮總桃分院啊這剛好就在這個本席的選區啊那本席的選區裡面這個也知道就同樣是護理師的就業環境的問題這護理人力其實十分吃緊護病比現在全市是9.3看起來數字是合理但其實大家都知道這樣的數字當然有填報等等跟實際上可能會有落差但這不是本席今天要關心的事情我希望的還是改善他們的工作環境這本席了解到啊這個"},{"start":7462.952,"end":7477.402,"text":"現在台北榮總陶芬院約聘的護理人員或是相關的護理人員他們能不能申請榮院的職工宿舍你們知道這個事嗎榮院是有一定的宿舍給工作的人去使用的"},{"start":7478.184,"end":7493.964,"text":"報告委員那北榮總院的部分呢不管公職跟契約都可以申請我們的宿舍那分院的部分我不知道他們的量能現在怎麼樣我回去會問一下我們的院長那這個事情如果足夠的量能應該要開放這是合理"},{"start":7494.264,"end":7521.376,"text":"好 這就是本席今天要提醒的因為就本席的私底下的明察暗訪啦他現在的狀況大概是說比如說護理長啊 或者是醫師他當然優先 這我們要理解工作繁重但我要提醒的是說 實務上就護理長也好 或者是醫生等等經濟條件 工作的時間也都相對的長在附近可能都有比較好的環境所以他不見得會去使用這樣子的一個這個這個容院的宿舍造成啦 這容院宿舍有閒置的狀況"},{"start":7522.617,"end":7550.106,"text":"那我想今天如果不是閒置那還沒話講大家要排一下順序但既然有閒置他應該思考一下這個做充分的利用所以我要幫這些基層的約聘等等護理師請請命吧有很多人出來乍到不見得在附近有地方可以安身有些人因為輪班這體力消耗其實非常非常的大如果就近在這樣的一個宿舍有休息的地方或者是有穩定的居住環境我想這是除了薪資待遇之外工作環境的改善應該有助於啊"},{"start":7550.946,"end":7575.554,"text":"讓台北榮總桃分院的護理師不管是留任也好 願意加入也好等等的誘因跟意願是做提升的所以本期花一點點時間跟這位做一下提醒剛剛已經正式承諾 本期非常高興這退伍會非常有效率我們趕快做盤點如果他有餘裕 有空間我們就來安排配套的措施讓我們這個護理師也可以來使用這個榮院的宿舍 可以嗎 主委謝謝委員指導 我們回去做檢討"},{"start":7577.54,"end":7581.291,"text":"OK 好 那個多少時間內可以給個明確的答案因為我們這總要幫基層請請命吧"},{"start":7584.81,"end":7611.282,"text":"一個月一個月 OK 好 這希望盡快來達成可以提前就提前再來這剛剛其他委員會有質詢過啦這個有關於這個退出域官兵的這個就業媒合的部分那現在開了一個專案也要成立一個平台現在你們四月已經做完了這個專長的對照表嘛我為了媒合要做專長的對照表但你的平台看起來是明年才會上線那剛剛其他委員問你講我現在在做跨部會整合但我們真的要關心的是現在這些人七百多項"},{"start":7612.603,"end":7619.42,"text":"職業對照已經做完之後可能很多人已經在等媒合啦你這八個月從現在到明年一月這個空窗期你的實際作為是什麼"},{"start":7623.286,"end":7644.411,"text":"高委員報告其實我們現在在各容負處第一線的就業媒合我們都已經會把它在軍中的相關的一個專長會加以考慮然後幫他推介那現在更有明確的一個初步的初稿方向出來以後我們已經其實有可以去請我們的容負處的第一線人員就可以做參考"},{"start":7645.231,"end":7668.278,"text":"但是因為他還沒有完成最後的一個驗證的一個到最後結論所以我們本來就有做這樣的事情現在還是需要等到四月底更完整的一個結果出來以後我們會請個人付出就可以加以運用所以四月底開始你就可以還是可以進行我的意思只是提醒說你不要等到平台成立好才開始做媒合這樣就中間空掉了嘛"},{"start":7670.339,"end":7676.083,"text":"平台是因為方便大家透過電腦一鍵按下去就可以看到但實際上你在這段時間還沒有見到我們可以把那個驗證完畢很嚴謹的一個結果出稿可以先給我們融服處去做一個參考運用先做參考運用就可以開始進行後面的媒合作業了嘛對不對所以四月底開始可以做這件事四月底之後 好 謝謝"},{"start":7693.755,"end":7706.82,"text":"我不知道 跟退府會第一次質詢還蠻愉快的因為回答都非常的清楚 而且也有明確的時間表我們就希望這可以照章執行 來完善各項的政策好不好好 辛苦主委了 謝謝好 謝謝牛起庭委員 現在我們請陳冠廷委員"},{"start":7724.793,"end":7736.17,"text":"你好 我們請主委教練好 主委好"},{"start":7736.744,"end":7763.919,"text":"所以我們現在退補會所有的轉投資的事業裡面我看到跟能源的項目比較多不管是天然氣等等的有沒有比較偏向這個國防先端科技外面的這種事業比方說是無人載具比方說是國防科技比方說是航太產業這個部分有沒有這樣相關的業務有沒有投資到這些公司的是指國防工業這一塊對投資事業我們都"},{"start":7765.095,"end":7784.121,"text":"我是事業部處長跟委員報告,我們目前22家轉投資公司,最主要是以傳統的事業為主,沒有這類的投資事業我自己看,包含美國許多的退役的,不管是將領也好,軍官也好,士官也好,士兵也好"},{"start":7785.281,"end":7810.242,"text":"他們參與很多國防產業他們退役之後有些是創新產業新創產業那有些直接是讓他們的這個人才庫可以有效的去運用那美國政府他自己有透過退伍軍人的創業跟中小企業的機制支持這種退役人就是退役的軍人的這種商務工作進入這個國防的產業鏈裡面法國的方向也是一樣法國國防部有一個"},{"start":7811.564,"end":7838.603,"text":"Defense Mobility我不太會講法文所以專門協助反正就是跟這個協助軍職人員轉職到民間產業那所以他們不是找工作他們是把人才導入企業我想不是找我們直接投資的公司而是說這些人怎麼樣可以直接軍轉民但這個民又在這個國防產業裡面是一個活水所以他們這樣子等於是代代都可以做最好的人才的運用那"},{"start":7840.819,"end":7852.171,"text":"除了這個之外他們還有國防創新局國防創新局有點像是我們的DIO那就是由國防部跟這些推動的支持戰略性國防的新創產業或者是他們的新案"},{"start":7853.277,"end":7875.956,"text":"那我們回到台灣我們現在民雄有航太園區那也有產業園區那中央是定位為研發生產軍民兩用也就是說未來如果有這些一般的民間企業進駐就不是只是由軍直接軍軍人直接的進入著而是由一般的商業企業進駐的話會有100多家國內外企業進駐所以人才的需求是會更多"},{"start":7876.596,"end":7902.018,"text":"那我們不希望說這些軍人們過去在這個他們自己的軍種的訓練他們過去的能力的培養就只是就放在那邊就沒有辦法再活用後來都要去這些能源相關的公司傳統產業這跟他們的所學跟他們這二三十年所培養的技能沒有直接關係那我會覺得非常可惜所以我是希望我們現在接下來可以思考說轉投資的方向"},{"start":7902.901,"end":7919.97,"text":"未來我們的新創企業跟國防相關的企業絕對是會非常多就像美國一樣美國無人機產業無人機產業鏈或者是無人載具的產業鏈都是許多曾經在這個國防企業相關的然後轉來進駐進入這些公司來去繼續服務"},{"start":7921.511,"end":7944.063,"text":"那甚至這些我看我最近在看那個美國的這個前印太司令阿基里諾退役之後也是參加這些產業公司所以怎麼樣可以讓他們的過去所學過去所培養的技術還是能夠投注在我國的國防還是能夠強化我的國防那我覺得這是非常重要的包含主委也是啊像主委你過去的這些軍旅的經驗"},{"start":7945.984,"end":7969.242,"text":"不會可惜在這邊當然是很好但是如果未來甚至你從隊補會退休之後你的經驗還是可以繼續被運用不管是對戰略上面的規劃對你過去這些能力的這些規劃我都覺得是值得去思考的現在國防心臟產業非常多各種面向都有我真的很希望說這些軍人的朋友們他們能夠不是只是安置"},{"start":7970.163,"end":7988.256,"text":"安置在這個企業裡面又如何每個月領薪水不是的他們的能力是可以被活用的那甚至是可以擴大我們整個國防產業這我覺得是非常重要的這部分是不是可以請主委思考一下謝謝委員的指導我想委員這個意見非常可貴尤其"},{"start":7989.256,"end":8017.514,"text":"在國防服務的不管是官士兵他們這塊的專業領域是非常難得的那退了之後如何能夠再運用到我們的國防產企業或國防工業上面這個是非常重要就他的所長能夠繼續留用那我們剛剛委員指導的轉投資事業在這一塊我們有它的限制因素我們轉投資事業主要是安置基金那安置基金它主要是照顧退伍軍人的"},{"start":8018.494,"end":8033.664,"text":"辅导他们的就业安置到我们的这个短途的公司事业单位22个单位里面这是这个安置基金那刚刚委员指导就看我觉得我们退伍可以做的第一个就是刚刚就业处的一个职训"},{"start":8034.344,"end":8060.447,"text":"那他們下來之後依據他們的原來的專長我們透過執訓相關的專長的班隊比方無人機或者是AI或者相關的這些軍工所需要的人才我們透過執訓來培訓他們這是第一部分第二個就是我們跟這些軍工產企業了解之後去訪視了解之後我們把這些需要哪些專長我們可以把它納到我們的"},{"start":8061.508,"end":8084.648,"text":"居民專長轉換系統的就現在要產生這個系統裡面如果更借階如果借階我想這是比較快然後他退下來之後馬上就可以就位好謝謝主委那我還是希望就是我們可以有創意一點就是創新一點的思考說可不可以就是不要在過去的框架裡面來去突破我們再研究好不好這個其實這個是行政權"},{"start":8085.848,"end":8109.447,"text":"你們可以思考的方向我們只能提供建議我們在國會但是這是你們行政權範圍如果你敢創新就是可以創新的好不好剛才有提到借街我們再補充一下借街的部分福壽商農場福壽商農場的離稅離就是離子的離稅就是稻稅的稅離稅就是我們在我們嘉義很多我們有高街裡高街裡的話是要嫁街"},{"start":8109.887,"end":8134.04,"text":"那嫁接的話才可以有出更好的品種比方說是有日本我們會從日本的新西縣啊秋田啊會進口梨穗那我為什麼要講到這件事情因為這補會的福壽山農場他們的梨樹品種非常的好那甚至是有梨王一棵樹可以嫁接三十幾種不同的品種那三十幾種不同的品種裡面有沒有考慮釋放出梨穗"},{"start":8136.441,"end":8153.466,"text":"這個部分可能要主委或者是其他相關的官員因為我們都還要再去日本去進口離稅那有些時候這個價格啦或者是裝盤商等等的話那可能是會有一些挑戰那如果我們本國就有一個非常好的這個離網那這對我們的農業對我們嘉義的農業是很有幫助的"},{"start":8156.599,"end":8171.997,"text":"委員跟委員報告我們在之前蘋果黃是嫁接了53種那現在蘋果黃吃下去是嫁接26種那梨樹的話是嫁接那個30幾種的品種沒錯那原則上我們的梨子都是現有的品種"},{"start":8172.918,"end":8198.05,"text":"那如果說果農有需要的話我們可以提供少量的嫁接苗給他但是我們本身農場沒有在做那個農苗的那個就是樹苗的培育這樣子這部分我了解了 對但是如果你們有 主要是量啦就是最近這個從日本進口的這個中盤商的等等的這些問題所以我們一直在思考各種方式啦 對那你剛剛提到說嫁接有三十幾種不同的品種對不對"},{"start":8199.15,"end":8215.325,"text":"那我們的轉投資的傳統產業只有22種我覺得也蠻可惜的就我拿一個比方啦思考一下國防產業的創新這個部分好 謝謝謝謝委員指導好 謝謝陳冠廷委員接下來我們請黃建斌委員"},{"start":8237.11,"end":8247.541,"text":"好謝謝主席我們有請嚴主委黃委員好主委早安主委好"},{"start":8249.008,"end":8273.76,"text":"所以那個退伏會是一個龐大的組織雖然說我們的組織是以照顧退出的官兵的權益為優先但是其實它很多工作是跟一般民眾息息相關像本席服務的選區台東縣那就有退伏會所屬的滿容家然後農民醫院、台東分院、台東農場還有資本分場這些機關可以說退伏會跟我們台東民眾的生活是很緊密的連在一起"},{"start":8274.54,"end":8284.467,"text":"那第一個問題請他來跟主委討論就是關於醫療的問題就是有關我們台東地區這個血統身心治療的這些問題我們請那個也請我們院長 院長請到"},{"start":8287.422,"end":8309.298,"text":"我們台中因為其實人口結構老化的關係所以高齡化人口比例比較高那這樣隔代接種的情況就比較多那也比較普遍那當學孩童發現他有注意力不集中然後學習遲緩甚至這個過動問題的時候他都是已經入學的時候才發現他也錯過了治療的黃金時期"},{"start":8310.299,"end":8326.47,"text":"那我們台東的孩童在找找這一塊其實主要集中在台東基督教醫院還有馬介醫院來進行但這兩間醫院因為近期語言治療師他流動頻繁所以導致學童他需要等半年到一年的時間要等半年到一年的時間他才有辦法掛號"},{"start":8327.711,"end":8343.972,"text":"他把掛到號讓這個語言治療師來治療那這樣會影響這些學童的這些語言發展的這個的能力那因此有些家長還有學校老師都跟本席來反映說其實他發現台東還有一間醫院其實也可以來做這些協助就是我們台東的農民醫院"},{"start":8344.753,"end":8373.568,"text":"那當本席把這個問題反映給我們退輔會的時候退輔會很快在4月2號那也請我們台中的院長這個胡宗明院長來跟本席這邊來討論那我們來想說怎麼樣來解決這些問題那這邊本席對於退輔會處理事情的速度非常快非常感到很肯定那我們胡院長也在也發展他也發揮他精神專科的這個專長也回答了很多問題不過我們大概最後的結論就是"},{"start":8374.328,"end":8389.719,"text":"礙於整個台東分院這個語言治療師跟這個臨床心理師的人力不足的問題所以他沒有辦法來改善所以這邊也要來跟主委跟院長這邊來請問就是說未來是不是可以增加人力然後讓台東分院有更多的量人來服務相親"},{"start":8390.74,"end":8410.811,"text":"那我想這些主委這些學童他在黃金治療期如果他能夠充分獲得這個相關的醫療的資源我相信他未來就可以擁有正常這個成長的這個兒童生活那本期再次這邊要跟主委跟院長來請命是可以多派一些人力來支援台東分院讓學童可以獲得治療"},{"start":8411.611,"end":8440.353,"text":"報告委員 請北農院長跟你回覆一下謝謝黃委員台東根據衛福部的估算大概一年需要早療服務的針對兒童遲緩的問題大概六百多人現在主要靠台東馬街跟台東基督教育院在承接因為我們台東醫院生的是規模不大只有一百多個員工早療的服務根據法規它要整個team"},{"start":8441.013,"end":8452.215,"text":"包括社公司、包括兒童心理、包括兒科、包括復健包括很多的個管師等才能做早療所以以現在人才招募困難"},{"start":8453.393,"end":8481.492,"text":"那的確我們現在能擔的責任就是第一個幫忙轉介協助東馬協助我們的東雞幫馬病這種轉給他們那另外我們能做的現在有物理治療師跟職能治療師這個我們可以幫他做本來現在量能一個月40個人我們可以提高到100個人廣為宣傳至於說語言治療師的部分我們朝這個夢想來前進如果能收得到人這個錢我們會花的就是擔心招募以後"},{"start":8484.373,"end":8505.662,"text":"台東分院也招不到人所以這個是人才非常的要招募非常的困難也希望委員能諒解但是我們會努力謝院長現在很正面的承諾盤錫覺得其實在整個榮民體系他全省有16間分院那加上我們其實軍系包括三總啦還有包括陽明醫院我們能夠產出的醫療人員其實非常多"},{"start":8505.882,"end":8527.023,"text":"那其實我自己本席自己覺得台東榮民醫院其實還可以做更多事因為我們其實都常常忽略其實榮民醫院其實它我們印象中大家都是服務榮民其實它能夠參與的社區很多所以本席也會建議就是說除了增派人力這一塊以外也建議說榮民醫院可以跟我們台東縣政府的社會處還有教育處共同來合作建構整個台東這個幼兒早療的這個醫療網"},{"start":8530.526,"end":8550.022,"text":"那如果有進一步需要來治療的學童可以藉由學校的系統或社區再轉介到我們北榮這邊 榮運醫院這邊來那來做更適合的治療那這部分我們一起來努力也再請推幅會跟榮運醫院這邊來多協助那第二個問題 謝謝院長第二個問題主要我要跟您討論就是關於職訓的問題"},{"start":8555.006,"end":8581.383,"text":"那就是這個執訓就大概有關無人機的訓練齁我們台東的產業其實很單純就是主要以農業跟觀光為主那這幾年其實因為缺工的問題所以其實人力越來越稀缺那我們的農民其實這幾年其實開始在利用一些科技的東西像是紙保機來協助整個播種啊施肥或是施藥這樣的過程那這不僅可以節省時間也可以更擴大面積來種植齁"},{"start":8582.924,"end":8606.522,"text":"那為了我們整個台東地區這個無人機的考照台東縣政府現在跟我們陸軍的太平營區來合作那利用軍方的場地來進行無人機的這個考場的考照那也滿足軍方的需求跟我們一般民間的這個市場的需求那本席辦公室有發現其實我們退輔會在花東地區也有開這樣的課程不過因為它的地點在花蓮是"},{"start":8607.682,"end":8625.427,"text":"主委那個台東跟花蓮啦其實交通啊坐我車要三個小時以上啦其實這樣是不便啦那我想說也建議主委這邊是不是未來我們跟台東縣政府來合作說我們共同來合作做這個無人機的這個訓練那讓我們台東的退役的弟兄也可以就近訓練不用這樣子跑到花蓮"},{"start":8628.374,"end":8655.242,"text":"謝謝委員跟委員報告目前花東地區我們都有開這個無人機的班那當然在台東地區我們只要需求量到達一定的程度我們就會開班那在這邊也跟委員報告其實我們勞動部因為政府都是一體的勞動部的那個在東部地區他也有無人機的班那我們只要是我們退伍軍有這個需求包括榮軍有需求他也可以去那個到分署去受訓他也提供蠻多的一個受訓的一個資源"},{"start":8656.502,"end":8676.332,"text":"我們可以本會可以去調查需求然後到達一定需求我就開班以上謝謝處長因為距離真的很遠大家都認為台東花蓮很近其實都要開車三個小時以上那這部分如果能夠就近來提供這樣的考照訓練的場地我相信對我們這個對我的弟兄其實都是一個福音那這邊也謝謝推幅會"},{"start":8679.073,"end":8697.962,"text":"最近我們這次也是本席第一次跟退福會來諮詢我覺得我們每次的提問都獲得很快的這些回覆讓我們一起來努力我想台東地區跟就像我一開始提到的台東地區跟退福會的關係非常密切那希望未來有些問題也希望退福會能來協助那謝謝主委 謝謝署長 謝謝主席謝謝委員謝謝黃建斌委員接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":8726.271,"end":8739.185,"text":"謝謝好 除夕 站長委員先進列席的政府協商官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請我們嚴主任委員還有就業就學的池處長和退休給付的羅處長請主委處長"},{"start":8742.708,"end":8759.322,"text":"主委好 主委好很開心又跟您見到面我的題目就是負力累積轉業金助招募增保障無人機操作及保修專長就業媒合請看之前要請教主委現行的短期士官兵退伍的保障夠嗎我之前問過這個問題"},{"start":8760.943,"end":8776.108,"text":"第二類的退伍服務應援兵因為他是願意滿四年以上 未滿十年他只能一次退休退伍金但是在我們退伍會輔導期間呢有包括急難救助 法律救治營 花費補助 職業訓練 就業津貼 進修補助你們覺得這個退跟輔應該是輔導的輔這樣的條件如果不夠會不會影響我們國軍的招募"},{"start":8783.57,"end":8805.278,"text":"所以我們現在積極在強化這一塊 包含我們把現在的居民專長轉換銜接系統完成這個也都是有助於所有的那是指轉業的部分 轉職的部分 好 那我們現在看其實我來看一下我們政府的這個做法怎麼做你看如果勞工的話 勞退條例10條跟33條我們有一個什麼 提繳的退休金 雇主提撥的6%"},{"start":8806.678,"end":8834.419,"text":"那在退休的時候的運用呢他可以怎樣管理運用營運分配可以複利累積最近賺很多耶如果現在勞工人很開心那麼就算農民的話呢第七條跟第三條又怎麼樣農民可以對等提撥他提三千政府就幫他撥三千一樣他也是累積複利但是我們陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例二十三條只有二十年以下就是有個退伍金一次退伍金是慢慢累積複利的"},{"start":8835.66,"end":8857.694,"text":"主委您對於這個福利的威力了解嗎當然我們是希望他的福利越多越好但是我跟委員報告這個陸海空軍順風服役條例主政機關是國防部我了解我只是在請教說您覺得從退伍的角度來講希望越多越好嗎當然支持好那我就告訴你其實呢我問過國防部我問過了今年初問過了副部長"},{"start":8858.454,"end":8873.184,"text":"對於短期式外賓強化退伍後的協助因為他不是退休有轉業或創業的需求他說值得研究我也問了部長我說是複利來提升退伍的保障助他轉職跟創業他說我們來評估顯見國防部還算是有正面的去看待這樣的一個加強短期的退伍保障好 再往下看那麼請問您覺得下列何者對我們國軍的招募或加強短期式外賓的退伍保障有什麼幫助第一"},{"start":8886.943,"end":8912.963,"text":"提高本俸 每個月多領現金還是我們增立一個轉職金每個月提撥 福利累積如果就您在過去的軍職生涯看到目前我們在招募的情況下已經輔導現在的退卒役的官兵你覺得哪一個比較有誘因 比較有幫助這個A可能會對於國防部來講會負擔比較重不是 我是說對那個招募的人招到你想要的人還有他的退伍之後的保障哪一種你比較有幫助"},{"start":8914.443,"end":8930.654,"text":"招募的 對招募的對象來看 應該是B比較好 增略轉資金可能啦 我老實說啦 如果我是高中畢業 我希望A啦但是等到我30歲的時候 我希望有B啦 是不是這樣子你們面對的是18歲想要來志願的 還是面對30歲要退伍的你們的對象是什麼"},{"start":8935.827,"end":8962.712,"text":"30歲要退伍的嘛 對不對所以你們要跟國防部跟他反應站在我們退伍費的立場來講我們輔導的 服務的這些退出役官兵來講他可能是30歲了他覺得轉職很重要但是現在官兵的一些聲音都說怎麼樣18歲 20歲這些年輕人我希望說服他改服志願役可能要多發現金比較好 這未必所以這一點呢 主委你們要發出你們的聲音就你們輔導退出役官兵他們的心聲"},{"start":8964.413,"end":8980.249,"text":"他們當年怎麼進來現在退休了 退伍了 國家照顧他他希望得到什麼來強化 好 往下看來 我們今天的報告就是說退後的均值專長可以順利轉化很好 很重要但是能不能符合業界的需求而且有效的就業媒合呢我們看這個題目我已經談了好幾年了"},{"start":8983.132,"end":8985.993,"text":"我首先在2021年我在這個委員會的質詢我也提到勞動部有證照對不對那麼退伍費呢這邊也有專長所以呢我們就把這樣的一個方式從從軍工作歷練累積專長考得證照符合就業市場是不是池處長是不是你們當時後來你們有採納嗎是"},{"start":9001.818,"end":9030.436,"text":"結果明年一月要上路對不對是好很好主委給你肯定雖然時間比較花了久了一點往下看所以呢我們來往下看但是我們要請教一下無人機現在很夯啊現在的操作或保修專長有沒有轉到公部門有問過你嘛對不對在113年的6月13號我就跟你請教過具有無人機操作或保修專長列入退役官兵媒合的職缺你說會列入對不對結果呢跑出幾個專長"},{"start":9032.896,"end":9036.466,"text":"三個來 是不是要請處長說明一下為什麼只有三個是"},{"start":9038.336,"end":9046.638,"text":"謝謝委員持續的關心跟您報告其實我們這幾年真的因為因應市場的無人機跟保修保修是本來就這個很多市場的一個需求那無人機來講以現在您所垂詢的神耀科技其實這個民間企業的一個職缺我都是滾動式的一個修正現在看到雖然只有這一家只有三個職缺但是我們在這個訓後我們都在到班之前都會快要結訓之前我都會"},{"start":9067.202,"end":9094.596,"text":"我來跟主委說明一下主委我在去年底 今年初就發起了一個無人機產業聯盟其實我跟很多無人機的供應商零部件的製造商或整機的開發商他們已經很清楚感受到未來市場的需求他們在招募人才可是比較招募的人才會專門寫出無人機修復工程書不太一樣我舉個例子您在服役的時候有沒有印象過那個寶傘的就是說折降落傘的"},{"start":9095.994,"end":9116.688,"text":"這樣的人員大概都在哪裡?在我們部隊裡嘛那這樣的保修官兵,他退伍後會做什麼,你知道嗎?您可能不太了解,我跟你講,這是提供啦我問過這些無人機的業者老闆他說我們這個無人機需要細心,要耐心像那種會折降落傘不會出錯的,我們很歡迎你們有沒有聽到這樣的一個需求?"},{"start":9118.383,"end":9144.122,"text":"所以我的意思是說其實啊我們對於未來民間需求職種的專長開發要多一點去貼近現場這樣的話你們就不會說他開出的叫無人機修工程師現在這個老闆說我在屏東內埔要設廠啊我擔心找不到人耶可是我想找那個大學剛畢業的他們的定力不夠我希望那些比較沉穩的像那個折匠落產不會出錯的那個好用中委員能不能幫我介紹幾個我突然問題主委可不可以幫我介紹幾個"},{"start":9148.879,"end":9176.636,"text":"我們可以再跟經濟部反映這個狀況所有的場案列出來我是建議你們齁除了已經明年一月要上路之後我們要改一個預先的一個建議你們可以做一個連結勞動部的就業服務資料庫因為勞動部有個就業服務資料庫我想你們的持續長不陌生而且你們去建立一個定期的工作對話平台你們可以更有效精準的掌握到民間企業的需求好不好這個方案一個月評估一下"},{"start":9177.637,"end":9197.4,"text":"主委可以嗎我們在做跨部會的連續是好那這個可以請你們提個書面的告訴我們你們答案怎麼做嗎可以好謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝鍾嘉斌委員這個無人機的應用真的非常重要那再麻煩主委這邊來協助接下來我們請翁曉琳委員"},{"start":9208.63,"end":9212.374,"text":"主委好我想我今天來質詢您應該可以猜得出我是要問什麼問題了吧"},{"start":9225.666,"end":9248.745,"text":"這個我們在去年6月27號國軍退出役官兵輔導條例就已經修正了然後新增訂27條之二要恢復辦理榮民子女就醫補助費而且是不分軍階的那麼這個是立法院三讀通過而且已經公佈的法律案那麼這不是行政命令也不是一個行政政策那其中就是希望要求"},{"start":9250.546,"end":9276.76,"text":"這個退府會主管機關你們要制定相關的辦法可是呢到現在這個法律已經通過了將近一年了兩個學期都過去了榮民朋友們到現在反應說還是申請不到領不到補助沒有辦法依法申請領不到補助我想請問主委就是我也看到你們這個退府會在去年八月的時候就已經"},{"start":9277.84,"end":9289.355,"text":"報了這個榮民支領什麼子女教育補助費的方案辦法就是你們已經制定預告了嘛也有這個草案然後已經呈報給行政院了那到底為什麼現在還沒有辦法正式公告"},{"start":9290.578,"end":9314.05,"text":"那委員我們也很急因為這個案子我們從107年就希望爭取恢復每一年的恢復那今年在大院去年6月27號公佈之後我們按照條文的授權會從教育部完成了發給辦法按照所有的程序包含公告還有法規審議都完成了就送到行政院送行政院行政院是通知我們因為要考量到"},{"start":9314.95,"end":9326.774,"text":"退休的軍人跟公教人員他的教務費的一個橫頻跨部會的一個協調現在在做審閱所以從去年8月20號到現在已經審了多少個月了行政院會有曾經討論過嗎我有跟人事長常常聯繫行政院人事長常常聯繫所以這是人事長的問題嗎人事長說這不是他們的問題啊"},{"start":9342.564,"end":9354.804,"text":"那整個還在行政院的審閱當中我們在積極做協調不是 這個非常非常的荒謬就是我們一個簡單的辦法而且並不是說退府會沒有經費你們是沒有經費嗎"},{"start":9356.708,"end":9377.17,"text":"應該是有嘛 對不對 我記得你們向來歷年也都有相關的預算編列可是竟然這麼重要的環節 然後就是卡在行政院搞不好就卡在卓榮泰的手上 他現在桌上不曉得押了多少公文對老百姓 對軍人 對軍公教有利的法案 他根本都不批這非常非常糟糕的"},{"start":9378.442,"end":9396.944,"text":"我希望原主委您身為退府會的大家長應該要站在保護或是愛護我們榮民朋友的立場上面要再積極的去反映啊否則我們現在大家做的這麼多的事情做白宮全部都是看卓榮泰的臉色"},{"start":9400.45,"end":9419.361,"text":"軍人加急我們這個立法院三讀通過的他也不發也不編列預算這存心就是在跟我們軍人朋友跟我們榮民朋友作對我是非常不滿這樣子的一個情況所以今天這個辦法草案還卡在行政院是吧我們在積極的協調爭取"},{"start":9423.259,"end":9439.301,"text":"真的我真的認為說再不通過的話這個可能接下來也還不只是彈劾行政院長可能退府會都會有問題好那接下來我再問第二個問題這個也是我這個常常有聽到基層榮民朋友抱怨的一個議題"},{"start":9440.382,"end":9460.279,"text":"就是說現在退府會將榮民分成第一類跟第二類這個分類本身沒有問題但是呢在第一類裡面又再細分為他是有職的榮民或是無職的榮民而且兩者的待遇差距非常大就以榮民就醫為例我看今天榮民就醫處的處長有來是不是"},{"start":9461.601,"end":9477.192,"text":"針對無職榮民他就想有很多譬如說在退府會可以補助繳納健保費啦住院伙食費還有有補助然後病房費也可以差額免收部分醫療費用也有補助但是對於有職榮民的部分"},{"start":9478.399,"end":9494.681,"text":"除了是在榮民醫院可以享有免掛號免收掛號費之外其餘的全部都回歸到健保體系他們還是要交健保費然後也沒有任何的榮民醫療的專屬補助所以在這裡想請教主委是您覺得這樣子的差別待遇公平嗎"},{"start":9495.402,"end":9512.345,"text":"同样是对国家对我们的这个这个军队奉献20年以上的荣民朋友却因为退伍之后他有没有工作就所享受到的福利待遇然后差别很大这个会不会有这种反而是"},{"start":9514.175,"end":9532.29,"text":"傳達一種所謂的反就業誘因最好就是這些早期退伍的朋友們退伍的榮民朋友們就不用再去工作了大家都在家裡面請問主委您贊同這樣子的一個現在的一個措施嗎我請我們就業處處長葉管跟您說明"},{"start":9535.615,"end":9556.478,"text":"報告委員 我是就醫保健處處長劉俊正針對這個在就業的部分 有職榮民的部分因為涉及到全民健保法的規定所以不管是榮民或者是配偶他如果是在就業或就職的話就必須以健保的第一類來投保我們的保費也是按照這個薪資的級距來計算這是按照全民健保法的作業來辦理的"},{"start":9557.719,"end":9582.754,"text":"那無職榮民的部分也是一樣按照全民健保法它是你有榮民證跟議事證或是榮民的遺卷的家戶代表證的話它是以健保的六類一幕來投表好 謝謝處長所以簡單來說就是這是涉及到全民健保法裡面的相關規定那你們有沒有曾經有反應過這個應該要去進行修法總站在保障榮民朋友的立場上面退府會是不是應該要提出修法"},{"start":9584.022,"end":9590.95,"text":"或是你們至少要跟健保法的主管機關應該是衛福部吧去溝通啊"},{"start":9592.185,"end":9596.147,"text":"包委員我們再想辦法來跟衛福部來做一個溝通把這樣的需求來轉遞給衛福部是本席認為說這個其實未來也會是一個可以鼓勵可以招募更多的年輕人加入我們國防這個軍隊那麼同時呢也可以對於我們現在對國家有功的榮民朋友們可以有更多的保障然後還有一個同樣類似的問題就是說現在榮民在政府機關公共體系服務他領的薪水是天花板的薪水也就是"},{"start":9620.997,"end":9639.673,"text":"只有三萬八千一百三十元因為他可能繼續領他退伍金但是他在政府部門工作的話有第二個職業也就是他在就業卻只能領三萬八千一百三十元其實這也是顯不公平的事情這個部分是不是也可以一併檢討好嗎"},{"start":9645.411,"end":9657.583,"text":"因為這真的是讓大家覺得同工不同酬即便是一個將軍退伍然後到公家機關去工作然後他也只能領三萬八千元這其實是很不合理的一件事情"},{"start":9658.403,"end":9672.877,"text":"跟委員報告,我是退組局副處處長,有關於轉任到公部門,這是依照服役條例,這是主管機關那我們會把這個建議跟國防部反映,以上報告對,這個部分我覺得也很重要,希望你們能夠積極去爭取"},{"start":9674.298,"end":9695.767,"text":"那最後我就是希望就是原主委是不是可以在一個月之內給本席一個全面盤點以及檢討現在有職榮民跟無職榮民的他的制度福利的差別然後以及相關的法規那麼同時對於剛剛我們講的有沒有可能未來再提高有關於榮民在公家機關服務薪資待遇這個部分請"},{"start":9697.148,"end":9721.488,"text":"退府會一個月內給本席份報告好嗎對 你們如果說不方便推法案的話本席可以在這裡提案我的目的就是希望能夠保障維護我們所有軍人以及榮民朋友們的權益我回去再做檢討好 一個月可以吧好 OK 那就謝謝好 謝謝翁曉林委員接下來請賴世保委員質詢"},{"start":9734.932,"end":9739.214,"text":"謝謝主席有請退伍會的顏主委我們請顏主委主委知道我們退伍會投資4月每年都有賺錢吧有22個4月單位這個其實"},{"start":9758.41,"end":9769.015,"text":"中東打仗了現在老百姓苦哈哈的說要動漲油價中油動漲這個每一週大概20億貼20億還要增資等等的結果有一塊還是漲就是瓦斯家用的瓦斯也漲小吃店的瓦斯也漲"},{"start":9783.468,"end":9790.513,"text":"結果我查了一下全國25家的天然氣公司裡面土耳其福島會直接持有二到四成股權佔16家而且間接投資星光無家的星駭瓦斯這個星就是星光的星另外一個那個星星像的星 星字號的很多啊所以真正的瓦斯界"},{"start":9810.646,"end":9816.908,"text":"我想說 乖乖 這個我們的東西現在便當100塊錢幾乎吃不到了都100塊以上了 就這一塊沒有動漲就是瓦斯 凶手找到了 就是退伍了你們投資這麼多 你們的市佔率加起來你這些事業加起來 66%主委 我就問你一句話可不可以承諾 你也動漲我們沒有接到要漲價的通知這個不會漲 目前不會漲"},{"start":9840.452,"end":9845.677,"text":"長啊 你們這個已經長了因為這個是經濟部人員署在主導不是不是不是 你們是老闆咧我們也是經濟部的董總是你指派的嘛經濟部好 你可不可以跟經濟部協調現在我們來看我們的統裝瓦斯"},{"start":9859.227,"end":9872.16,"text":"都一桶都這個超過八百塊了家用的也漲小吃店的也漲三月初每一桶就漲了十幾塊到五十塊那你看看喔這幾家我送給你聽喔你們這個瓦斯啊這個新字號的天然瓦斯賺多少錢呢你知不知道賺多少錢"},{"start":9880.862,"end":9886.105,"text":"我知道 每年大概賺十幾億不只十幾億啊 我跟你算了一下你們大概賺三十億到一百億之多平均報酬率十點五七 當然要很好報酬率多 北部報酬率十八趴 南部四趴"},{"start":9902.995,"end":9905.437,"text":"一般的公用事業報酬率只有5到7、8所以退伍費投資這幾家都不賣勒我做生意勒所以你們有賺啊就少賺一點啊就只有你反應你們是董長你可不可以承諾董長報告委員要跟您報告"},{"start":9919.626,"end":9947.6,"text":"所有公用瓦斯的售價我們各瓦斯公司都不能訂全部由能源署來訂所以我們不能去調整這個隨便去調整這個價值主委主委 我就問你一個政策上你可不可以跟經濟部長 工部長他在樓下有機會你跟他講一下我們現在都在你們手上嘛就是現在那個加油的動作呢什麼有動作 只有一個地方沒有動作"},{"start":9948.961,"end":9954.025,"text":"我們會和護髮師協會跟經濟部反映這個問題 跟中油反映這個問題要這個啦 因為等一下我們中油吃便當 便當你再看一百塊又賣無 賣無啦 幾乎賣無啦就是跟護髮師很有關係 這個我插了一下退伍費角色很重要的 我不知道你們怎麼會經營這麼賺錢"},{"start":9977.3,"end":9989.343,"text":"這個 這個 主委啊我看你的 你講個話咧法委員 我們這個是在安置基金在運用我知道啦 大部分給安置基金啦 給國庫不多啦我的意思是說 因為你會賺錢 所以少賺一點啦你跟經濟部講一下 當場可以嗎 可以嗎剛剛我們主委也講 會跟 透過法協會跟經濟部反映最後一個問題 小問題喔"},{"start":10002.173,"end":10020.058,"text":"這個那個農民救養金的申請資格現在有人啊這個有農民啊比如說在他退以前啊他可能持有一張台積電的股票結果他的鼓勵這個儘管會鼓勵大家藏地持有啊結果因為這樣子結果沒有辦法領農民救養金一個月一萬五嘛對不對"},{"start":10026.786,"end":10050.6,"text":"一萬五十個沒有,可不可以檢討單身或是沒有子女的農民入住農家政府的安置,重要是不一定是給錢,重要是安置他可不可以讓他住進來,可不可以檢討包委我是救養處處長,請報告我們領取救養金的農民大概有兩萬六千多人,那我每一年會去做驗證"},{"start":10052.042,"end":10073.736,"text":"按照他每一年平均的總收入那總收入的一項裡面就有包含利息的收入所以我們針對榮民的這些總收入因為訂那個太苛了因為主席站出來不要花太多時間那個他是用低收入戶的標準在訂啦我覺得這一部分對榮民可以放寬一點啦"},{"start":10075.576,"end":10084.343,"text":"排款條款我們回去再做檢討好不好沒有這是兩個一個是入住一個是領錢我現在關心的是入住因為這樣子取消入住對吧沒有取消了怎麼沒有"},{"start":10091.344,"end":10105.596,"text":"我剛剛跟您報告的是救養金 那救養的資格條件 我們有相關的規則你們監討一下吧 因為那個你們資格是比照門檻 比照那個低收入 太低啦我就不要強調這個太低啦 我覺得對農民這樣子 太苛啦 好不好 謝謝謝謝賴市長 委員 接下來請馬文軒 趙偉"},{"start":10124.047,"end":10125.656,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請主委請主委"},{"start":10132.355,"end":10154.462,"text":"主委好 主委好 主委我們在之前其實曾經針對國軍上校接領奉人員子女教育補助費的問題有詢問過主委目前執行的狀況那本期要再次的提醒退府會這個案子因為立法院在去年6月10號已經三讀通過"},{"start":10155.822,"end":10182.568,"text":"已經增訂了27條之一授權退府會跟教育部共同訂定子女教育補助費的這個發起辦法那總統也在去年6月27日已經公布退府會也完成了這些相關草案法規的審核明訂114年8月1日施行在去年就應該要做的事情可是退府會在去年9月1日公報辦理情形行政院"},{"start":10183.268,"end":10203.935,"text":"要求要抱怨審閱同意然後再會同教育部公告我想請教就是說從總統公布到現在已經快一年的時間行政院他審議也將近一年到現在目前的問題是什麼還不公布的原因到底是什麼"},{"start":10205.704,"end":10227.652,"text":"報導委員 我一直跟行政院人事長保持聯繫主要就是軍人跟公教人員補助費能夠很平他們在做計算或者計劃在做作業一直在審查審閱當中 需要一點時間目前我所知道的資訊是這樣我一直跟他們保持聯繫 希望能夠盡快回補"},{"start":10228.933,"end":10232.915,"text":"他們要錢的時候不是這樣子喔 那要錢都是需求恐急然後一天都不能等 可是如果要這個審議的過程當中因為這些榮民跑者子女 我們現在還是再一次提醒就是說我們在這個過程當中 我們覺得比較不合理的是沒有什麼橫品的這樣的考量"},{"start":10253.304,"end":10272.974,"text":"我們現在是對於中校、少校階跟上校階這樣子的一個考量而不是跟其他的這些公務人員去做比較就這個部分我們看到如果像這樣子就讀私立大學可以先領教育部的17500元的補助費"},{"start":10275.578,"end":10295.363,"text":"可是辦法公布以後要先繳回教育部的補助款再申請退輔會三萬五千八百元的補助費其實我們退輔會基本上補助是三萬五千八然後教育部是一萬七千五那現在退一上校跟中校平均月退縫其實它相差不多啊"},{"start":10296.503,"end":10301.967,"text":"我們現在看到如果比較資深的依據退府會提供的資料啦如果是退役比較資深的這些關節比如說上校資深的大概7萬3左右"},{"start":10309.434,"end":10338.499,"text":"中校大概五萬九 將近六萬那少校大概五萬一可是如果在比較之前的剛升沒多久就退其實他的月俸大概也是五萬多塊而已那今天你好不容易升到上校其實應該是他表現也很優異然後可以有這樣升遷的機會他才升到上校可是因為中校跟少校都可以有這樣的教育資女教育補助費可是反而上校就沒有"},{"start":10339.079,"end":10356.704,"text":"那對他們來說如果他們同樣是退役軍人因為階級跟身份的差異一個可以領一萬多然後一個只領三萬多那這個是不是形同簡奉這樣是合理的嗎然後一直這樣拖是可以嗎"},{"start":10357.779,"end":10375.479,"text":"因為他早期上校中校少校都可以領啊所以我們修了以後他才不能領那你現在一直而且法也都通過了這個等於是變相懲罰你在軍中多付出或者你表現更好的人那主委這樣子的一個看法或者我們還可以怎麼做"},{"start":10377.16,"end":10395.183,"text":"的確正如昭偉說的這些資深的上校跟資淺的上校還有跟中校、上校比的確是有一些不公平那麼我們也把這些狀況有跟向上反映就是希望能夠盡早恢復那我想要請教一下現在"},{"start":10398.203,"end":10424.566,"text":"他現在是在哪一個地方?在哪一個黨會?誰黨?為什麼黨?問題出在哪裡?是在哪裡?送到行政院是外法處現在在哪裡?外法處外交國防法務處外法處你放多久了?報告委員去年9月3號送到行政院一直到現在?是都在那裡?是沒有消息?"},{"start":10425.975,"end":10443.104,"text":"還在審閱中那請退補會針對行政院審議商校接領奉人員子女教育補助費的處理情形用書面來回覆本席好不好在後續因為我們可能看看哪一些人自己要錢的時候然後要得很兇可是對於應該給的然後已經修法通過的"},{"start":10448.787,"end":10460.718,"text":"然後一直說要照顧軍人的卻遲遲不願意能拖就拖能推就推這個部分我們希望可以確切的找到他的問題點請用書面回覆本席"},{"start":10462.53,"end":10481.855,"text":"另外我想要在這裡也要向退府會提出一個具體的建議我們在落實政府照顧國軍官兵政策的時候退府會針對就讀國中小的親韓榮民子女特別有律定相關的這個"},{"start":10484.93,"end":10502.702,"text":"農民就學子女午餐補助發放作業要點那這個部分是針對中低收入戶或低收入戶特殊禁慾家庭或者經學校認定侵含無力支付午餐費的對象我們是提供例假日跟寒暑假的午餐補助"},{"start":10503.402,"end":10523.685,"text":"而且我們每天補助新台幣80元等於說你在放假的時候然後或者例假日的時候或者寒暑假的時候我們只補助一天只補助一餐而且一餐只有80塊我們看到去年的資料其實我們總共補助的人數大概只有一千多人你既然是放假了"},{"start":10524.025,"end":10547.273,"text":"然後他又是低收入戶中低收入戶又是清寒他可能沒有能力可能可以去做這樣子的一個我們補貼的用意大概是這樣希望我們在中小學的時候可以讓他這個子小孩子可以安心的成長可以比較有營養的可以去獲得這樣子的一個補助可是我們現在物價飛漲剛剛有委員提到連100塊我們都很難買到適當的"},{"start":10553.095,"end":10570.701,"text":"便當那我們現在補助八十塊這是合理的嗎那如果人數不是那麼多我們甚至應該在例假日的時候我們全天候的補助我覺得這個部分才能夠落實照顧照顧到我們榮民所有的子女"},{"start":10571.141,"end":10589.555,"text":"因為他們不是一般一般的啦你當然還是有條件嘛那你如果中低收入戶或者親韓的我們能不能做到這樣的照顧主委這個部分您怎麼看是謝謝召委關心我們對親韓農民教學子女的照顧我想這個每天新台幣80元我們現在已經在做檢討已經在做檢討"},{"start":10591.696,"end":10619.581,"text":"我們明年的話我們預算大概是希望由80塊最少提高到100這是明年那我們會按照剛剛委員 召委所指導的我們看是不是再適度的再給它調高再增加好 主委我們剛剛有提到一個就是說它一餐你100塊其實也是補助一餐可是它明明一天它有三餐不管你要怎麼樣去做這樣的補助你說放假的時候它只吃一餐嗎或者你補助的那個"},{"start":10621.021,"end":10638.754,"text":"他的那個額度我想其實還可以更人性化一點而且更真的可以落實他的照顧他第一人數不多預算也不高所以就這個部分去做一個整體的一個評估跟考量以後我們做一個妥適的一個調整好不好是可以我們再做檢討好謝謝主委謝謝"},{"start":10641.018,"end":10669.855,"text":"好謝謝馬文君委員接下來我們請邱志偉委員邱志偉委員邱志偉委員不在鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員不在楊瓊瑛委員楊瓊瑛委員楊瓊瑛委員不在林倩琴委員林倩琴委員林倩琴委員不在洪孟楷委員洪孟楷委員洪孟楷委員不在宜丹俊諮詢委員逐步在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本會議由徐曉欣委員邱志偉委員提書面諮詢請列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":10670.856,"end":10679.022,"text":"委員書面及口頭諮詢未答部分或要求補充請對不諱兩中內已書面答覆委員有指定期限者從其鎖定本日會議到此結束散會"}]}},{"id":"168365","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168365","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc77160a2148dde01e1fa1e45401cc1f585775daf2063192877dff3bbbc96e0e24c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"10:59:08 - 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除夕 站長委員先進列席的政府監事長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請我們嚴主任委員還有就業就學的池處長和退休給付的羅處長請 諸位處長"},{"start":16.755,"end":38.106,"text":"主委好 主委好 很開心又跟您見到面我的題目就是 複利累積轉業金助招募增保障無人機操作及保修專長就業媒合 請看之前要請教主委 現行的短期士官兵退伍的保障夠嗎我之前問過這個問題 第二類的退伍士官兵因為他是願意滿4年以上 未滿10年"},{"start":39.927,"end":50.132,"text":"他只能領一次退休退伍金但是在我們退伍會輔導期間呢有包括急難救助 法律救治 雲化化費的補助職業訓練 就業津貼 進修補助你們覺得這個退跟輔應該是輔 輔導的輔這樣的條件如果不夠會不會影響我們國軍的招募"},{"start":57.597,"end":79.283,"text":"所以我們現在積極在強化這一塊,包含我們把現在的居民專長轉換銜接系統完成,這個也都是有助於所有的...好,那是指轉業的部分,轉職的部分,好,那我們現在看其實我來看一下我們政府的這個做法怎麼做,你看如果勞工的話,勞退條例10條跟33條,我們有一個什麼,提繳的退休金,雇主提撥的,6%"},{"start":80.723,"end":108.804,"text":"那在退休的時候的運用呢 他可以怎樣管理運用 營運分配可以負力累積喔 最近賺很多欸如果現在勞工人很開心那麼就算農民的話呢第七條跟第三條又怎麼樣農民可以對等提撥他提三千政府就幫他撥三千一樣 他也是累積負力但是我們陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例二十三條只有二十年以下就是有個退伍金一次退伍金是慢慢累積負力的"},{"start":109.685,"end":131.738,"text":"主委您對於這個福利的威力了解嗎?當然我們是希望它的福利越多越好但是我跟委員報告這個陸海空軍中央福利條例主政機關是國防部我了解我只是在請教說您覺得從退伍的角度來講希望越多越好嗎?好那我就告訴你其實呢我問過國防部我問過了今年初問過了副部長"},{"start":132.478,"end":147.208,"text":"對於短期式冠病強化退伍後的協助因為他不是退休有轉業或創業的需求他說值得研究我也問了部長我說是複利來提升退伍的保障助他轉職跟創業他說我們來評估顯見國防部還算是有正面的去看待這樣的一個加強短期的退伍保障好 再往下看那麼請問您覺得下列何者對我們國軍的招募或加強短期式冠病的退伍保障有什麼幫助第一"},{"start":160.97,"end":187.007,"text":"提高本俸 每個月多領現金還是我們增立一個轉職金每個月提撥 福利累積如果就您在過去的軍職生涯看到目前我們在招募的情況下以及您輔導現在的退卒役的官兵你覺得哪一個比較有誘因 比較有幫助這個A可能會對於國防部來講會負擔比較重不是 我是說對於那個招募的人招到你想要的人還有他的退伍之後的保障哪一種你比較有幫助"},{"start":188.47,"end":204.704,"text":"招募的 對招募的對象來看 應該是B比較好 增略轉資金可能啦 我老實說啦 如果我是高中畢業 我希望A啦但是等到我30歲的時候 我希望有B啦 是不是這樣子你們面對的是18歲想要來志願的 還是面對30歲要退伍的你們的對象是什麼"},{"start":209.874,"end":236.719,"text":"30歲要退伍的嘛 對不對所以你們要跟國防部跟他反應站在我們退伍費的立場來講我們輔導的 服務的退出役官兵來講他可能是30歲了他覺得轉職很重要但是現在官兵的EK聲音都說怎麼樣18歲 20歲這些年輕人我希望說服他改服志願役可能要多發現金比較好 這未必所以這一點呢 主委你們要發出你們的聲音就你們輔導退出役官兵他們的心聲"},{"start":238.44,"end":254.514,"text":"他們當年怎麼進來 現在退休了 退伍了國家照顧他 他希望得到什麼來強化 好 往下看來 我們今天的報告就是說退後的均值專長可以順利轉化很好 很重要但是能不能符合業界的需求而且有效的就業媒合呢我們看 這個題目我已經談了好幾年了"},{"start":257.176,"end":260.017,"text":"我首先在2021年我在這個委員會的質詢我也提到勞動部有證照對不對那麼退伍費呢這邊也有專長所以呢我們就把這樣的一個方式從從軍工作歷練累積專長考得證照符合就業市場是不是池處長是不是你們當時後來你們有採納嗎是"},{"start":275.843,"end":304.461,"text":"結果明年1月要上路對不對是好 很好 主委給您肯定雖然時間比較花了久了一點往下看所以呢 我們來往下看但是我們要請教一下無人機現在很夯啊現在的操作或保修專長有沒有轉到公部門有問過你嘛 對不對在113年的6月13號我就跟您請教過具有無人機操作或保修專長列入退役官兵媒合的職缺你說會列入對不對結果呢 跑出幾個專長"},{"start":306.923,"end":310.493,"text":"三個來 是不是要請處長說明一下為什麼只有三個是"},{"start":312.38,"end":318.862,"text":"謝謝委員持續的關心跟您報告其實我們這幾年真的因為因應市場的無人機跟保修保修是本來就這個很多市場的一個需求那無人機來講以現在您所垂詢的神藥科技其實這個民間企業的一個職缺我都是滾動式的一個修正現在看到雖然只有這一家只有三個職缺但是我們在這個續後我們都在到班之前都會快要結訓之前好 謝謝施助長"},{"start":341.229,"end":368.623,"text":"我來跟主委說明一下主委我在去年底 今年初就發起了一個無人機產業聯盟其實我跟很多無人機的供應商 零部件的製造商或整機的開發商他們呢 已經很清楚感受到未來市場的需求他們在招募人才可是招募的人才會專門寫出無人機修復工程書不太一樣我給舉個例子您在服役的時候有沒有印象過那個寶傘的 就是說折降落傘的"},{"start":370.041,"end":390.712,"text":"這樣的人員大概都在哪裡?在我們部隊裡嘛那這樣的保修官兵,他退伍後會做什麼你知道嗎?您可能不太了解,我跟你講,這是提供啦我問過這些無人機的業者老闆他說我們這個無人機需要細心,要耐心像那種會折降落產不會出錯的,我們很歡迎你們有沒有聽到這樣的一個需求?"},{"start":392.388,"end":406.25,"text":"所以我的意思是說其實我們對於未來民間需求職種的專長開發要多一點去貼近現場這樣的話你們就不會說他開出的叫無人機修工程師現在這個老闆說我在屏東內不要設廠我擔心找不到人可是我想找那個大學剛畢業的他們定力不夠我希望那些比較沉穩的像那個折匠落產不會出錯的那個好用中委員能不能幫我介紹幾個我突然有問題主委可不可以幫我介紹幾個"},{"start":422.903,"end":450.68,"text":"我們可以再跟經濟部反映這個狀況所有的方案列出來我是建議你們齁除了已經明年一月要上路之後我們還要改一個預先的一個建議你們可以做一個連結勞動部的就業服務資料庫因為勞動部有個就業服務資料庫我想你們的持續長不陌生而且你們去建立一個定期的工作對話平台你們可以更有效精準的掌握到民間企業的需求好不好這個方案一個月評估一下"},{"start":451.661,"end":461.973,"text":"主委可以嗎我們在做跨部會的連續好那這個可以請你們提個書面的告訴我們你們答案怎麼做嗎可以好謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝宗家兵委員"}]}},{"id":"168364","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168364","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc722651e2bee549eb29dfcc871f89f4d35775daf206319287785b58d3d4fa10b1e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"10:55:07 - 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形的譬如說這個受訪的人他講到說他想要爭取平等升遷可是主管會以很關心他為他好的立場說你如果調到外地後你的小孩誰來照顧呢然後這位受訪者說我很想訪問訪問長官"},{"start":247.105,"end":262.92,"text":"如果身牽的男生掉到外地的時候他的小孩又要誰來照顧為什麼這些問題只出在女生身上不會出在男性身上右邊這個也一樣女性檢察官被假設晚上無法出勤不能辦辱人勒索案件"},{"start":264.982,"end":280.792,"text":"這看起來好像是在照顧女性 為妳好可是這些重要的案件或者是說外派外地的工作最後如果都遇到這種為妳好的隱性歧視的話其實很可能限制女性檢察官的職涯發展"},{"start":281.773,"end":299.366,"text":"那最後一個就是女性檢察官的受訪的人也提到說跟男性法警合作上遇到的困擾譬如說右邊這個訪談說警察會要求我不要分給女檢察官盡量分給男檢察官因為他們覺得跟男檢察官比較好講話"},{"start":300.667,"end":326.661,"text":"左邊這位是說他雖然已經去了去外勤了從左後方的下車那可是法醫就是應該要遞件給他那可是卻遞件給法醫那這個就是法警雖然他下車的位置是比較重要的坐在右後方我想這也談到就是說好像男性法警有一個潛在的性別歧視以男性為主"},{"start":328.463,"end":349.42,"text":"當然就是我們凡事都要以法規為講CEDAW是我們台灣簽署的聯合國跟性別平等相關的公約它有明確講怎麼樣做到性別友善一個是司法各級決策職位的均等另外一個是培訓考試中應該消除性別成規定型觀念"},{"start":350.08,"end":367.517,"text":"還要納入性別平等的能力那還有呢應該要評估司法部門對性別平等問題的敏感度最後就是要有性別平等的改革包含就是方便照顧的工作時間和彈性工作的安排特別是對孕產期間的家長或女性"},{"start":371.541,"end":394.299,"text":"所以想問您這也是學者提出來的軟硬體規劃建制哺乳室還有各級人員如何有性別比例如果做不到的話可以檢討是什麼原因最後就是性別平權的教育因為時間的緣故想請問被提名人您是不是支持要創造一個更為性別友善的職場環境"},{"start":395.62,"end":418.8,"text":"如果您支持的話 上任後會提出哪些提升性別友善的政策跟具體措施呢好 謝謝委員 我完全贊同剛才委員所提點的這些內容我想 宣導是絕對是要必要的讓所有的同仁知道要尊重性別 一切就是要平等的看待"},{"start":419.4,"end":446.681,"text":"那植物的安排也要跨過不能有所謂的性別的考量我想這個是一定要做到的那我們的法規面的話也要去檢討如果有不完足的我們一定要把它修正好那第四個就硬體的設備剛才委員提到我據我當檢察長的經驗我們都有設我們都這個也是檢查的重點之一所以應該是不會但是委員剛才提到那些檢察官的抱怨"},{"start":447.361,"end":472.18,"text":"我當檢察官這麼久也常常會聽到因為外勤的關係這的確有一些不方便因為一出去我曾經早上10點鐘出去外勤到晚上9點11個小時在外面如果同樣的情景發生在女生的身上就會有剛才講到是不是有哺乳的問題啊或者接送小孩的問題啊這個等等都是問題我知道都會不方便那我們男生就是比較就比較"},{"start":474.722,"end":489.115,"text":"被禮遇就是家裡的老婆會先犧牲掉所以我們大概就比較沒有後顧之憂那同樣女性的檢察官真的我就替她們覺得說她們真的很辛苦所以有時候家庭的資源就變得非常非常的重要"},{"start":490.336,"end":516.748,"text":"我想這些都是我們努力的剛才講的都是我們要努力的目標剛才那個委員又特別提到人數比例現在我們地檢署有五個檢察長是女性的同事我們22個地檢署有五個是女生你要說高也不算高但是已經是有佔一定的比例那再來就是最高檢最高檢都是比較資深的檢察官所以以當時他們的入局率女生本來就少"},{"start":517.228,"end":534.418,"text":"所以在最高檢那些資深的相對來講女生就會更少那你看地檢的話就已經很平均了所有的剛才委員提點我們一定會努力來改進那因為您講的就是您很認同可是有些你們做了那也許你們可以深入的了解就是說到底遇到的困難在哪裡"},{"start":534.978,"end":554.136,"text":"是性別平權教育可以加強呢還是就是說他們身牽上的確有像您剛講的遇到就是說育兒啊哺乳啊等等讓他整個的有機會的工作他一開始就沒有被考慮到我想這個我要再補充再一點我希望所有的檢察長跟主任這個話不能這樣講"},{"start":556.178,"end":573.315,"text":"我剛才委員所提到這個我們會去告訴我們的這些首長跟幹部不能這樣子說任何人要給他有相同的機會不能用這種理由來排斥他我希望沒有發生啦如果真的發生我們一定要稍微告誡他期待您當選後我們就繼續對話是是是謝謝好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168363","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168363","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc78361b5d2ba36e0cefa1e45401cc1f585775daf2063192877326b0209a3ccd1cb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"10:51:00 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謝謝院長第二個問題主要我要跟您討論就是關於執訓的問題"},{"start":319.033,"end":345.393,"text":"那就是這個執訓就大概有關無人機的訓練我們台東的產業其實很單純就是主要以農業跟觀光為主那這幾年其實因為缺工的問題所以其實人力越來越稀缺那我們的農民其實這幾年其實開始在利用一些科技的東西像是紙保機來協助整個播種啊施肥或是施藥這樣的過程那這不僅可以節省時間也可以更擴大面積來種植"},{"start":346.934,"end":370.532,"text":"那為了我們整個台東地區這個無人機的考照台東縣政府現在跟我們陸軍的太平營區來合作那利用軍方的場地來進行無人機的這個考場的考照那也滿足軍方的需求跟我們一般民間的這個市場的需求那本席辦公室有發現其實我們退輔會在花東地區也有開這樣的課程不過因為它的地點在花蓮是"},{"start":371.69,"end":389.45,"text":"主委那個台東跟花蓮啦其實交通啊坐我車要三個小時以上啦其實這樣是不便啦那我想說也建議主委這邊是不是未來我們跟台東縣政府來合作說我們共同來合作做這個無人機的這個訓練那讓我們台東的退役的弟兄也可以就近訓練不用這樣子跑到花蓮"},{"start":392.385,"end":419.252,"text":"謝謝委員跟委員報告目前花東地區我們都有開這個無人機的班那當然在台東地區我們只要需求量到達一定的程度我們就會開班那在這邊也跟委員報告其實我們勞動部因為政府都是一體的勞動部的那個在東部地區他也有無人機的班那我們只要是我們退伍軍有這個需求包括榮軍有需求他也可以去那個到分署去受訓他也提供蠻多的一個受訓的一個資源"},{"start":420.512,"end":440.4,"text":"我們可以本會可以去調查需求然後到達一定需求我就開班以上謝謝處長因為距離真的很遠大家都認為台東花蓮很近其實都要開車三個小時以上那這部分如果能夠就近來提供這樣的考照訓練的場地我相信對我們這個對我的弟兄都是一個福音那這邊也謝謝推普會"},{"start":443.081,"end":459.777,"text":"最近我們這次也是本席第一次跟退不會來資訊我覺得我們每次的提問都獲得很快的這些回覆讓我們一起來努力我想台東地區跟就像我一開始提到的台東地區跟退不會的關係非常地密切那希望未來有一些問題也希望退不會能來協助那謝謝主委 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請李洋部長有請李洋部長"},{"start":15.551,"end":43.217,"text":"部長早安部長您在4月7號有到本席選區來參加河美全民運動館的開幕那河美全民運動館在本席的關心以及我們政府推動全民運動這個決心中央補助了一億元那部長您還親自來參加開幕典禮民眾都感受到運動部對我們全民運動的重視當然當天很多民眾非常開心看到他們心目中這個非常崇拜的偶像"},{"start":43.777,"end":69.793,"text":"但是當天有個狀況就是真的這個縣長很有拿計畫說要請部長帶回的這個爭議在這邊本席要先強調爭取地方建設其實本席一直都在做並我想不管是地方的建設不管是校園的不管是運動的設施相關的設備我都非常努力在爭取我相信部長跟我們運動部的同仁們都非常的清楚我一直都有在協助地方做這個地方建設的這個經費的爭取並不是說在現場"},{"start":73.075,"end":101.674,"text":"有媒體的時候拿那個計畫書出來給部長您這個才是真正的才有在做地方爭取那部長您是不是說一下當時的狀況跟委員您報告首先當然是非常感謝委員其實一直以來對地方的建設都非常相當的關心以及支持那其實當下我有跟縣長這個說明情況就是按照現行的狀況我們確實比較難去通過那我有跟縣長說明就是如果他正式發函我們運動部絕對會入案"},{"start":103.215,"end":119.026,"text":"那對我們目前的情況當下我確實是回答預算還沒有過第一個預算還沒有審過第二個如果說有爭取的這個計畫上來我們也一定會照這樣的程序來補助給地方那有媒體報導是說縣長當時是要拿其他鄉鎮的這個全民運動館建設案給部長"},{"start":123.069,"end":135.147,"text":"那這個部分呢本期還是要再強調這個延續型的這個計劃新增部分在運動部這邊高達30.2億元那主要是要辦理各地方政府新建整建運動場館這個預算但是因為倒是在現在"},{"start":139.493,"end":157.047,"text":"這個預算還是被藍白擱置還沒有通過所以運動部其實就像部長剛剛您講的因為預算還沒有審過你也不知道你能夠拿到多少預算被刪、被減、被凍之後到底有多少錢可以來補助給地方這個沒有辦法事先做這樣的承諾那本席在這邊真的也要呼籲藍白在野黨我們盡快來審議115年的總預算"},{"start":161.471,"end":176.568,"text":"不要自己不省預算 耽誤了 耽擱了地方的建設然後怪罪部會 怪罪我們民進黨的立委沒有協助爭取地方建設地方的這個經費喔這種本末倒式的指責還可以這麼理直氣壯 我真的是覺得很無言"},{"start":177.148,"end":205.421,"text":"好 那個部長我們接下來來關心關於女足球員這個連署的懲請那運動部這邊是說已經有介入足協也表達說在30天內完成調查但是根據女足公會昨天的聲明4月8號的聲明來看運動部以及足協這邊做的可能跟球員的期望是有很大的落差的那本席在這邊要代表女足的球員再次向運動部來要求"},{"start":206.421,"end":234.266,"text":"針對女足球員在4月8號的幾項聲明裡面我要求我希望運動部跟足協至少要滿足前兩項第一個部分是我們應該要檢討就是這個檢討要盡快的完成在兩週內完成因為6月份就有國際賽了我們不能耽誤到這個國際的這個賽事所以這個檢討要盡快的完成第二個部分是希望不要有任何形式的秋後算帳"},{"start":235.146,"end":262.096,"text":"不能因為他們有表達他們有這樣子的要求那在未來的參賽的資格裡面被這樣子被秋波算帳的話其實對球員是非常不公平那對我們可能去爭取到的這個好成績也可能是一個很大的打擊所以在這邊我要請部長你能夠具體的承諾就是說剛才講的這兩點至少能夠要求至少能夠做到因為女足她們在昨天的訴求有至少有四項"},{"start":263.076,"end":288.103,"text":"那這前兩項是不是請部長這邊可以承諾會回去督促並要求足協盡快來完成相關的檢討改組以及人力補足官委員您報告首先非常感謝您對我們足球運動員的重視那在女足這一塊我們確實我們也親自的在之後會我本人會跟女足的選手來開會親自了解他們真實的訴求以及需要我們運動部幫忙的是什麼那我們會盡量來幫忙"},{"start":289.929,"end":312.293,"text":"那我這邊還是要請部長您承諾就是這個相關的檢討是不是兩週之內可以完成我們不要影響到六月份的比賽跟委員您報告那我們會再跟選手這個確認後那絕對不會讓他們影響到這一個後續的國際賽事那我們會了解選手的這個狀況然後我們會一直督促這一個足協來趕快繳交這個報告"},{"start":315.469,"end":342.92,"text":"因為部長您本身也是運動員出身所以他們也很希望說您能夠很同理他們所遇到的這些困境您能夠協助他們來解決那在這部分就是部長您已經有承諾了一定會全力的來協助這些女足來盡快改善他們所遇到的這個問題對我會親自跟他們開會了解他們真實的訴求然後看我們運動部可以怎麼協助選手我們要保障選手的權益"},{"start":344.801,"end":359.578,"text":"其实足协的问题不只是伤害到球员让球员失望其实民众也是觉得十分的愤怒当教练他的合适性是需要球员用这样的方式来反应"},{"start":360.078,"end":385.925,"text":"代表这个足协的内部其实是已经很长期的忽视到球员的意见像这样子一个打压异己专制的这样的治理的方式不是我们所期待的协会应该有的表现所以在这边要请运动部及足协可以深刻的检讨讲一句比较重的话我们羁押了多久腐败了多久就需要有多少的力气跟多少的决心来做改变"},{"start":387.166,"end":404.983,"text":"這個部分部長您一定要盡全力的來協助當然好 謝謝再來我們接下來想要來關心就是兒少運動相關的問題根據調查顯示現在的兒少最喜歡的職業第一名是職業運動員"},{"start":406.744,"end":419.539,"text":"因為現在我們國人的運動風氣很盛行加上我們的職業選手其實在我們的國際舞台上一直都有非常好的成績所以我們的孩子們都很憧憬他們希望自己可以有機會成為職業運動員"},{"start":421.561,"end":436.733,"text":"但是我們根據統計的資料卻顯示說台灣有高達八成多的低年級的兒童運動時間沒有達到WHO建議的每週應有七個小時的標準台灣兒童這個達標率不到兩成顯見我們兒少規律運動這個養成運動部還要很積極的來看待積極的來辦理"},{"start":442.617,"end":451.292,"text":"那在這邊請教部長對於培養兒少養成運動就是比較有規律的運動的這個部分運動部現在有怎樣的政策來協助"},{"start":452.674,"end":477.76,"text":"跟委員您報告那這個我想這是我們與教育部會積極來努力幫助這個這個不管是體育班還是非體育班的學生來養成規律運動的習慣那當然我們現在來講包含我們在成人的部分我們有社區俱樂部的部分那也在已經公告也且收案也已經陸續收案了"},{"start":478.288,"end":497.405,"text":"体育班毕竟是少数但是大部分的学童大部分的儿少运动时间不够或者说是不是说他们在课程的安排上或是在学校的社团活动可以怎样来协助这个部分我希望部长你们有比较具体的一个报告给我"},{"start":497.985,"end":515.143,"text":"没问题跟委员报告我们会提供报告给您那很重要的一点我们的儿少要放心的运动运动教练及环境的安全是非常非常的重要那目前我们针对不适应教练的这个管理机制就很明显的是不足的"},{"start":515.723,"end":525.39,"text":"公民團體有指出有長期性侵及猥褻多名球員且遭判刑入獄的教練竟然目前還仍然擔任社區棒球隊的教練不僅是長期參與多項少棒錦標賽甚至在"},{"start":532.074,"end":550.465,"text":"運動部列明支持的賽事的轉播中有上場指導的這樣的特寫鏡頭這個球隊甚至也透過學校家長會來租借學校的場地並且還鎖定弱勢家庭兒少加入而且竟然是目前還在持續招生中"},{"start":551.405,"end":566.393,"text":"不是任教練可能潛伏在各種運動場域這也是讓家長難以放心讓孩子參加各項運動課程一個很重要的原因所以這也是造成兒少運動率低的一個很大的因素"},{"start":567.153,"end":584.947,"text":"那運動部你們說為了讓家長可以比較放心是有設置了一個不適任教練專區但是部長您看一下喔不適任教練專區呢你們只有提供姓名運動種類及判決書那這個判決書的連結甚至點進去是很難載入點進去你看就是這個畫面就是點不進去或者說它下載不下來那其實"},{"start":594.254,"end":611.646,"text":"想知道訊息的人點區他沒有辦法知道說真實的狀況是怎樣那像這樣家長沒有辦法從這個專區得到完整的訊息所以他很難去辨認不適任教練而且不適任教練專區只有遭受判決確定的人"},{"start":612.987,"end":641.634,"text":"如果是說曾在學校內有嚴重體罰霸凌學生或是因為性平案件而解聘曾被社會局認定兒童虐待或開罰者沒有辦法在這個專區裡面搜尋到那像本局剛剛提到的有這個長期性侵擊委協球員這個教練不適任的教練專區裡面也沒有相關資料可見我們這個系統的整合以及更新的這個訊息的速度是有比較"},{"start":642.614,"end":649.606,"text":"沒有辦法符合家長的要求這個部分部長您的看法呢這部分我們會去來檢討然後去精進"},{"start":651.552,"end":673.053,"text":"所以本行會希望說運動部你們要通盤截討這個不適任教練專區這個設置包括相關訊息及時的更新以及相關的資料的整合這個希望你們都可以盡快的來改善我有去看一下參考一下這個台北監理所他這個酒駕累犯專區的部分"},{"start":673.573,"end":688.302,"text":"他上面顯現出來就會有相片然後有部分的身份證然後姓名以及簡略的違法行為他讓你知道說這個人為什麼他被列在這個上面那點訊息名字他有相片是有足夠的訊息可以讓民眾"},{"start":690.543,"end":710.075,"text":"去辨認辨識說這個酒駕累犯的這個人那所以本期希望運動部在這個不適任教練專區的資料揭露可以參考像這樣子的一個訊息我們提供足以讓家長可以辨識運動教練適任與否這個訊息譬如說提供部分的身分證號教練證號甚至照片來"},{"start":714.278,"end":736.881,"text":"讓家長能夠比較完整的可以做辨識這個部長您覺得可以研議嗎可以謝謝部長我們有要求你們一定要一步到位但是你應該循序漸進去做好這一塊去完善讓不適應教育專區越來越可以提供到家長他們所需要的訊息同時也會有個嚇阻的作用"},{"start":738.522,"end":757.611,"text":"讓不法的人士有所警惕那也希望說運動部也應該跟地方機關配合來防堵任何不適應的教練繼續在運動場域的這個情況我們也應該要我們的兒少提供一個安全的運動的環境那這個部分我希望運動部可以在一個月之內提供書面報告給本席辦公室可以嗎可以好 謝謝部長謝謝委員好 謝謝陳秀巴委員的詢答"},{"start":767.878,"end":769.872,"text":"也感謝陳委員非常關心"}]}},{"id":"168361","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168361","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7db4c6ed467ac6599ff16f9abdda18f348ce3249aa741ed41ad494a3f2fee8f525ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"10:48:51 - 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理解相關的案子我們都一定考量消防處這邊"},{"start":162.45,"end":173.937,"text":"有沒有消費者跟你們投訴?我們目前看申訴系統大概是四件有嘛,那請妥善的處理啦針對這部分,因為我覺得這問題目前坊間感覺很關注但是實際的問題也許並沒有那麼嚴重謝謝你們,我接下來想請一下經濟部公部長還有中郵的方董事長"},{"start":191.448,"end":216.738,"text":"政委好現在部長因為剛剛請他們三個相關的一個單位來說就表述現在這問題大概有多嚴重其實實際上進入公平會跟我們法務相關單位的可能還沒那麼嚴重可是消費者的感覺是不一樣的那我們今天看到經濟部這邊的一個報告的時候也很清楚提到我們在總供應量這邊是沒有問題的對不對總供應量這邊沒有問題"},{"start":220.58,"end":249.018,"text":"然後針對那個就是提到總量夠然後可以調度也有替代來源基本上這些東西大概都沒有問題但也特別提到說我們讓那個世青這邊先增產之後然後就是產發署這邊也跟我們相關的這20家塑膠工廠都已經有做一個聯繫我覺得很好啦我們用最快的速度去產生這個問題那為什麼我要特別提到說總量上感覺是夠的經濟部這邊"},{"start":249.938,"end":275.391,"text":"總量管購消費者卻覺得確實有一些物價格上的波動有些地方講三成有些地方講到五成這可能就是兩個很重要的問題因為從整個原料到消費者手上它有很多一個整個產業鏈的問題當中可能還會有很多預期心理的問題消費者的預期心理或者中韓商的預期心理都不一樣都會產生這相關的部分"},{"start":275.851,"end":290.624,"text":"所以我覺得經濟部在做這步過程當中的時候可能也需要有更多的一個說明跟溝通讓消費者真的不要擔心是是是所以我們會直接跟商圈市場端因為是"},{"start":291.445,"end":311.204,"text":"家用的消費者他現在是比較不缺啦那現在就是說商圈的還有市場端的因為他們要客戶使用他們可能要比較多一點那我們就直接跟他們溝通理解好不好因為這過程當中我發現部長也特別提到說我們增產之後就是平均每一個人一天可以用"},{"start":312.084,"end":333.423,"text":"10個塑膠袋比方說講10個塑膠袋我聽到這個數字的時候在想說今天還好環境部彭部長沒有來不然他聽了可能就要哭了你知道嗎我在想說這件事情塑膠袋之亂這件事情的時候我覺得某一個部分對整個經濟部所掌管的產業當中的時候對整個循環經濟的部分我覺得也許是值得我們去"},{"start":333.823,"end":352.034,"text":"多做琢磨的一個部分我們會跟環境部還有那個商圈夜市來討論一個怎麼樣檢縮的一個機制或者是獎勵我覺得這個部分因為我覺得剛好就是坦白說台灣消費者之前對這部分可能沒有特別的"},{"start":353.034,"end":377.375,"text":"關注 因為這件事情讓大家覺得減碩的問題然後怎麼樣子能夠重複使用的一個問題或者是整個循環經濟產業鏈把它給落實下來我覺得都是一件很好的事情那我們也希望針對這事情當中的時候我們經濟部在思考的不只是說讓四清增產這樣子的一個事情來解決而是對於整個台灣的一個"},{"start":379.636,"end":405.878,"text":"更適切的一個適合台灣整個社會環境的一個產業也能夠有一些調整的一個動作在這裡頭完全贊成那這部分再請我們基部這邊再多做一個努力那我接下來我想請教一個部分就是因為在這個四清增產的過程當中我想請教一下部長你知不知道我們到2024年我們整個的以西的產能產"},{"start":407.879,"end":424.29,"text":"能大概總共有多少然後我們的實際產量有多少現在現在來講的話台塑大概是9萬噸然後現在中油的部分原來是6萬噸然後增加了一點點整體的產能我想乙烯的整體產能"},{"start":425.251,"end":436.279,"text":"就是十幾萬噸我這邊得到的數字就是針對石化工業同業工會他們所提供的數字這邊我們看到2024年的狀態我們產能跟實際的一個產量有35%的落差"},{"start":443.064,"end":456.764,"text":"那為什麼我會提到這個狀態就是說以目前台灣這相關的一個產能來說的時候其實是有空間去提高的那我在這邊會特別提到一個針對一個狀態就是說因為這次是讓那個世青這邊的時候先提"},{"start":459.147,"end":481.539,"text":"提高產量出來那我想請教針對新四清這個計畫因為要投入一千多億一千多億的一個狀態2024年行政院通過那我想關切一下這個案子目前情況怎麼樣子因為有很多相關的環保團體就是我剛才問到說我們碰到說外資亂的時候是不是能夠讓台灣的循環經濟做得更好"},{"start":482.259,"end":496.5,"text":"所以對於新四清這樣子的一個計畫的時候我們目前進行到哪裡然後是不是會如期往下推還是有可能修正的可能性我們就先請中央董事長OK好 請董事長回應"},{"start":498.282,"end":521.093,"text":"謝謝委員 委員好新石清這個案子就是剛剛委員所提到行政院在110年同意這個計畫往前推動但是它有一個前提就是要跟當地高雄市政府取得在檢探上的一個共識這部分我們跟高雄市政府溝通我們已經達成初步的共識"},{"start":522.173,"end":550.423,"text":"但是這個檢探的方式跟結果還是要經過設計完了以後經過環評的審查通過以後才會確立所以因此我們在這個案子目前推動就是在進行基本設計的過程中以及在環境調查的過程中所以跟高雄市政府這邊已經達成共識了嗎還是還在溝通過程當中達成共識但是那個結果必須要經過基本設計完了以後才能確立"},{"start":551.977,"end":554.246,"text":"因為我想說因為現在我們本身的"},{"start":555.555,"end":555.595,"text":"好 謝謝好"},{"start":585.591,"end":586.059,"text":"谢谢 再见"}]}},{"id":"168360","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168360","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7f505fe7cbb564cb79dfcc871f89f4d358ce3249aa741ed41eb3679e204ee1bbe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"10:46:45 - 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我們請徐貝提名人有請貝提名人"},{"start":12.662,"end":41.234,"text":"委員好被提名人您好今天我們在審查就是您被提名人的資格我想全國這個檢察總長是掌管全國的檢查體系所以說今天其實大家我想早上那麼多委員大家都在質詢的部分其實不只是看您的資歷夠不夠符合這樣的一個資格更重要的是要看你是不是能夠真的擋住政治力守住程序正義"},{"start":42.094,"end":62.105,"text":"檢察官回歸依法辦案而不是看顏色看風向跟看高層的意思所以你在這個自傳裡寫說要堅守政治中立要引領司法朝向公平公正的穩定發展要落實偵查不公開與偵辦的發展並重而且也要妥適的這個運用檢查一體更強調"},{"start":63.506,"end":83.568,"text":"檢查體系不可以受外界的這個壓力的干擾那這些話本席都完全的同意但問題是您近年來的經歷也是最容易讓人家質疑這個政治中立的地方包括說您在2023年9月借調到國安局擔任副局長在賴總統上任之後就擔任法務部的政司到了2026年"},{"start":85.63,"end":103.327,"text":"這個離開政策的職位調任最高檢主任檢察官那接著不到一個月總統就提名你出任檢察總長喔所以說包括這個您的這個剛剛有特別在昨天的宮廷會喔這個陳宏達主任檢察官也提到有很多的質疑喔"},{"start":103.807,"end":133.13,"text":"那這種從政務官到這個檢查體系最高首長的快速接軌從政治上來看社會會質疑喔你可能離執政黨太近而且這種過水式的職位轉換也讓人家不得不懷疑喔這個你是政治檢查總長那面對各界的質疑跟批評請問被提名人你有什麼回應好 謝謝委員喔那如果委員有繼續看我的資歷的話在國安局副局長再往前推"},{"start":133.931,"end":149.508,"text":"那可能就長達25年以上的檢察官所以我並不是一開始就站到非常好的位置一步一步我也是從後補一直一路往上爬的所以應該要去檢視我這25年我是不是我想"},{"start":152.531,"end":161.055,"text":"針對您的這個部分 你的自傳我都有看過了那我也了解您的背景但是為什麼大家會有這樣的質疑你必須要破除這樣的質疑就是要看您的表現那當然如果你有幸擔任這個整察總長的時候你要怎麼破除外界對這樣子的一個質疑我覺得那才是重點對 沒錯 我完全贊同"},{"start":172.76,"end":198.593,"text":"那因為我覺得不要用我的職務去看我是不是有政治色彩而是要去看我擔任這個職務我做了什麼事這都可以檢討的那我現在來請教您一下就是說在這網路流傳有一個前我們的您看一下就是前民進黨的秘書長林錫耀的截圖對話關說司法人士那因為您是利害關係人那高檢署也已經表示分他治案在偵辦那請問一下您認不認識林錫耀"},{"start":201.614,"end":228.49,"text":"這些對話是不是偽真?不認識 我完全不知道他們在說什麼那這件案子現在偵辦到 進度到哪?我也不知道那如果 那案件簽結了嗎?我不知道 因為你是關西人因為連問我都沒有 因為真的是我完全不認識這兩位 連見面都沒有那請教你喔 如果假設你有幸擔任檢察總長的話未來你是可以指揮這個案件的辦案喔那您要怎麼做 這樣合適嗎?"},{"start":230.451,"end":251.002,"text":"這個案子就我來講不管我有沒有擔任這個職務我一定是迴避如果有要約談我我一定會去做筆錄就這樣簡單我絕對不會去介入這個因為有這樣子的一個我想這個對話流出來代表說您其實也跟這個執政黨的關係很好否則的話不可能這樣一路的平步青雲但是"},{"start":251.642,"end":265.595,"text":"當然我相信你如果有幸擔任檢察總長的話你應該是要秉持著這樣子的一個中立的精神來去處理相關的問題那當然現在大家也都很關注的就是剛剛也有幾個委員提到就是偵查不公開的部分因為"},{"start":266.616,"end":277.324,"text":"您剛有提到說會嚴格的要求落實偵查不公在你的自傳裡面可是我剛看你在回答委員的問題的時候又說但是包括你回答國民黨的這個對您提問的這個問題裡面你也提到說媒體報導為必然洩密查證困難"},{"start":284.329,"end":305.276,"text":"因為您的態度很重要如果你就是要嚴格的偵查然後要落實這個偵查部公開如果有這樣的狀況你們一定會查到底辦到人那這樣子的話您的宣示相對很重要這樣會讓所有的這個基層的檢察官認為說當然剛剛有提到說不見得是檢察官但是在那機在整個的這個環境裡面"},{"start":306.917,"end":333.755,"text":"如果我們的態度是一定會嚴辦到底的時候大家當然就會很警惕尤其是現在大家都知道連法務部長都脫口說禁檢那也都只有特定的媒體表示這個絕對有相當的問題那所以我相信很多委員也都期許說未來如果你擔任檢察總長一定要嚴格的來落實偵查不通不管是對你們的形象對整個社會的形象跟整個政府的形象都有很重大的意義"},{"start":334.275,"end":360.071,"text":"包委員完全支持我們一定會嚴辦好 是那我想這個部分要請檢查官未來如果您擔任檢察總長一定要嚴格來辦理絕對不能再讓這種禁檢的這個問題的一直存在那最後再請教您一個就是說您在自傳裡面有提到檢察官應具備悲天憫人的精神也強調要保護被害人跟弱勢者的權益那對於現在這個有關廢死的議題八成的民意是強調"},{"start":361.832,"end":388.287,"text":"這個反對廢除死刑那但是因為現判8號這些已經本來被判刑的這個死刑犯喔那有可能您可以利用提起非常上訴來去把這個最高檢變成死刑犯的這個逃死轉運戰喔所以您的被庭名人是留給被害人家屬還是會留給那些透過法律程式無限期在拖延執行的極惡之人所以請問這個被庭名人"},{"start":390.248,"end":406.816,"text":"你可不可以承諾未來不會提起非常上訴來達成實質廢死的目標因為這是您說要把這個悲天憫人還有要保護我們這個被害人的權益跟弱勢者的權益包委員這是兩件事情"},{"start":407.116,"end":424.05,"text":"我們對於被害人的保護是不遺餘力這是羅興司法的一塊我們一定要落實到底那對於非常上訴死刑辦的非常上訴是遵守113年宪判8號的判決的意義但是您覺得就是有被判處死刑的這些被害人這個加害人想當然而他絕對就是這個罪大惡極才會被判處死刑嘛"},{"start":431.656,"end":450.042,"text":"那所以你要怎麼去保護我們這些被害人的家屬我們也利用這個機會來說明我們是一個完整的一個程序走完但是我們絕對不會有所謂的廢死因為憲判也沒有說死刑是違憲的所以我們會把所有重進我們重進目前還有三件又判死刑了"},{"start":456.164,"end":476.916,"text":"不是沒有 我們法院還是會去處理但是我們的修正 我們的論告我們要更精緻還是希望說被庭名人如果您有姓陳為檢察總長的話針對您所提到的要保護被害人跟照顧弱勢家庭能夠真正的去落實而不是只是紙上的說法而已是 沒問題 是 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謝謝主席 是不是還是繼續請我們這個洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":18.293,"end":36.125,"text":"部長我們在今年2月已經跟美國簽訂了這個台美對等貿易協定所謂的ART但是呢3月的時候呢美國在3月11號也宣布啟動301條款的調查但在ART裡面我們就已經承諾了你剛剛一直不斷的跟大家講的3年內要這個解決移工付費的這一個問題嘛"},{"start":42.009,"end":59.112,"text":"那既然美國要求貿易夥伴要共同禁止進口強迫勞動製品已經是既定的和持續的推展的政策那你一直講三年三年在這裡我要提醒你不是三年是剩不到兩年為什麼呢因為歐盟的禁止強迫勞動產品上市規章它將會在2027年的12月要實施2027年的12月離現在不到兩年"},{"start":69.614,"end":78.499,"text":"所以我要提醒你時間不是三年是不到兩年在這種狀況裡面台灣作為一個極度仰賴出口的經濟體然後移工的遭遇強迫勞動的這個問題也長年的在國際上被點名不管是漁工的或者是不當的仲介費的或者是其他議題的那我想就是說我們恐怕經不起怠慢這樣的一股趨勢"},{"start":98.391,"end":104.937,"text":"所以這個我要再提醒你就是我們對美國的出口比重從114年看起來我們已經是最大的出口市場對美國的出超已經達到1500億美元又刷新了紀錄而財政部在114年我國進出口的貿易概況講說美國是我國第一大出口國特別是人工"},{"start":123.192,"end":128.115,"text":"智慧熱潮帶動下來資通訊還有視聽產品的輸出總金額大概1983億美元這個連續9年正成長那對歐洲出口413億美元年增率也將近7%都是資通訊產品還有電子零組件還有機械"},{"start":144.468,"end":162.706,"text":"那這個大家都知道這個對我們來講很重要不到兩年的時間可是我們再看看我們的慘痛的經驗就是巨大巨大 自行車它因為涉及強迫勞動我們都知道說這個事情發生到現在也已經去年九月到現在也很久了"},{"start":163.226,"end":185.994,"text":"那他們呢有派集團代表去跟這個CPB就是美國海關和邊境保護局正式會面那也委託國際第三方平和的機構展開查核作業範圍包括了這個員工的訪談文件的檢視工廠和宿舍的實地和平內容還包括工作環境和生活設施的整體檢視而且在12月1號就完成了喔"},{"start":189.795,"end":213.911,"text":"巨大在去年的12月1號就完成將所有限職的外籍移工的所有的買工費通通返還給移工等於是雇主就幫所有的工廠裡面的外籍移工通通買單的仲介費啦但是呢到12月1號這樣做完以後到現在請問他解除禁令了東西出關了嗎"},{"start":215.595,"end":230.284,"text":"現在還沒還沒還沒沒那麼簡單所以我在這裡是說我們我去年十月也質詢暫扣令對企業來講是非常致命的他所有錢都付了所有的狀況都改善了"},{"start":231.064,"end":252.076,"text":"但是歷經了數個月有的人還歷經數年才得以解除這個禁令而我們的法規你剛剛講說我們要改了大概你認為就是這個暫扣文件然後還有這個不當的仲介費所以等一下行政院會就會通過這個救福法的這個修正案對不對"},{"start":253.277,"end":280.959,"text":"這是真的其中一項對但我現在在跟你講RBARBA並不是只有這樣子不是那一項指標而已其實我們要開始意識到零付費絕對是國際趨勢RBA最早就像全球的供應商發布零付費的政策最早是鎖定電子業和科技產業開始要求RBA但現在已經我們不是"},{"start":281.739,"end":300.85,"text":"資通訊產業或者是半導體產業而已現在已經要求擴展到代工的產業包括汽車產業醫療設備包裝加工業凡是國際品牌供應鏈的一環都可能要遵循RBA責任商業聯盟的指標"},{"start":301.67,"end":318.003,"text":"它不是一份指標而已它是一種企業信任跟永續合作的憑證對國際品牌而言供應商如果沒有辦法通過RBA的集合會被排除在供應鏈之外所以不只是工廠連協力廠商承攬商人力重建甚至外籍義工的來源地母國都必須遵循相關的準則所以不是本國而已還有"},{"start":329.211,"end":350.693,"text":"外籍移工來源國的母國的制度實務上RBA要求最核心移工不得承擔就業相關費用 零付費應有自由選擇工作的權利不得強迫按限制行動這個我們隨時 今天行政院應該沒有檢討這個"},{"start":352.506,"end":375.501,"text":"根本說明其實去年我其實就已經跟RBA的副總裁包括總裁我現在跟你說甚至我們接下來會跟這些國際供應鏈就是國際供應鏈管理的這些商業的集合機制我們也會來跟他們有些合作我現在跟你講不要講跟他們合作他們的最重視的準則標準應有自由選擇工作的權利"},{"start":376.562,"end":392.817,"text":"那我們其實也踩到紅線不是只有不當的仲介費不是扣押你的證件而已自由選擇工作的權利這真的是非常大的一個挑戰老實說那我其實在這裡要跟大家還有跟部長你知道大龍企業"},{"start":394.56,"end":418.956,"text":"企業界的標竿他是為全球電燒比刀的產品最大的可能是供應商可能是OEM廠商啦那主要的客戶就是涵蓋了歐美他是代工的2022年起大龍企業就啟動了零付費政策所以外籍移工來台的時候包括來源母國的仲介費"},{"start":419.756,"end":437.644,"text":"包括本地在台灣合法可以收取的台灣業者的仲介費全部都是他們公司負責到目前2025年為止他的母國仲介費支出了1500萬在台灣的仲介服務費每個月大概支出90到100萬每個月"},{"start":440.68,"end":466.69,"text":"那絕大多數引進外勞的企業我想他們都不會幫移工付這兩筆費用了那大龍為什麼要這麼做他其實他是有說他們說他們沒有被規範但他們發現ESG和DEI都是未來趨勢作為供應鏈所以他們希望自律的符合規範那所以在他們公司的公司治理的這個以人為本的公司的核心那"},{"start":467.23,"end":471.494,"text":"那其實國際上老實說,這個已經刻不容緩,我已經跟你講了,剛才是不是三年,是兩年不到,一年多了然後在巨大發生戰擴令以後,我們大家都發現,事情很大條的啊所有衛生業都知道事情很大條的啊,那你們也制定了相關指引工企業參考"},{"start":486.388,"end":502.515,"text":"但是對國際要來打擊這個勞動這個強迫勞動的壓力我們只有採取你的指引好自願企業自願採行零付費政策我想這個是太難了吧這應該是太難了吧我們不會只有指引"},{"start":503.51,"end":531.903,"text":"不會只有指引 指引是第一步所以並不是三年後我們才來制定法規而是在這段時間裡面從指引 從輔導 從仲介評鑑從相關的某些制度的法規我們都要開始修正我這樣子問你你現在就是一工零付費那請問只要有仲介業生存的一天只要存在著仲介的一天仲介就是依靠"},{"start":533.288,"end":541.772,"text":"靠獲利為目標啊 不然他做仲介是要做什麼 做義母的 做義母的 做好心腸的 做功德的嗎不是 只要仲介業在了一天 就必須要有仲介費不管合法的或是非法的 合法的那一點點能夠讓他們支撐他們的想要嗎 想要嗎老實說啦 他說零付費 那換成誰付費"},{"start":561.271,"end":586.007,"text":"可能叫做雇主付費那請問你使用移工的百分之九十都是中小企業主耶有幾個中小企業主有能力像大龍企業這樣子自己付費所以跟國人說明我們也是考慮了台灣有很多的企業是中小企業所以剛剛在講到幾個事情你不要講太多我已經聽你一整個早上了你都沒有面對這個問題來"},{"start":588.008,"end":614.982,"text":"當然雇主現在大型的10%的上市櫃公司的這個雇主或是大型企業的雇主他去負擔這個買工費很合理我們也覺得應該是要但是呢他當然會比較有溢價的空間嘛我一次買單這麼多所以你招募合法的成本不合法的不透明的無法合理化的會用也比較可能會被壓縮"},{"start":617.25,"end":637.369,"text":"比較有溢價權啦但合法之應的他作為付費者當然他也可以比較回到透明較合理較接近市場效率的結構所以那中小企業主他的溢價能力就降低了所以沒有像大的企業這麼高對啊那你要怎麼解決你說你要透過仲介評鑑"},{"start":642.164,"end":660.045,"text":"所以我們為什麼在這個階段要把職聘的這個做法在制度上面把它給健全跟強化你答對了 但你今天的報告裡面都避重就輕啦你講我國內職聘 我告訴你 你的國內職聘就是一個大問題你的國內職聘現在比例是多高"},{"start":661.281,"end":668.306,"text":"現在不高2.7%你說中小企業的僱主能夠全部買單所有外勞的買工費一個人6000美元嗎三年就要買一次有辦法嗎沒有那我們要仰賴什麼仰賴的是國對國職聘啦"},{"start":683.424,"end":701.42,"text":"人家韓國做得到 日本做得到 而你台灣國對國的職聘你要幫中小企業主 還要買單這個仲介費那是不可能的 只有透過國對國職聘 才有辦法幫中小企業主"},{"start":702.401,"end":718.914,"text":"去省掉這一筆費用台灣的中小企業主以前啊都cost down他怎麼cost down就靠了人力成本在下調他的cost down的嘛那你現在說不能cost down買公費再叫中小企業主買單他買不起"},{"start":720.629,"end":734.069,"text":"全部包括國內合法的買工費他都買不起大龍每個月要付90萬上百萬的每個月的買工費他都要幫他付台灣有幾個中小企業族有辦法沒有"},{"start":736.212,"end":752.077,"text":"所以現在 你不是在這裡說 我給仲介評鑑仲介評鑑好的仲介 收的仲介費是合理的再怎麼合理 叫雇主都很沉重那怎麼解決 正本清源的解決應該是國對國執聘還有國內達到50% 60% 70%的國內的執聘"},{"start":761.263,"end":778.828,"text":"而你在這裡報告這麼多年了你們從來不設定目標你來告訴我你國對國之並設定目標五千人 一千人連五千人你都沒有設定全台灣八十萬的幾萬的外籍移工台灣製造業我剛剛講RBA喔它不是半導體產業半導體產業製造業的移工"},{"start":790.427,"end":798.374,"text":"用了多少人剛剛講了48萬人其中電子零組件大概8萬人電腦電子產品業大概2萬人所以高科技的半導體的電子零組件的電子電腦電子產品的大概加起來10萬的移工可是除此之外除此之外大概都中小企業所以這一些中小企業幾十萬的移工他們要怎麼樣去付這些錢"},{"start":819.031,"end":844.15,"text":"所以他們要怎麼樣去使用你們的國內職聘的體系我現在先講一下你們112年公布移工管理還有運用調查報告在受訪的製造業和營建業的僱主當中已經有72.4%通通都知道政府有職聘服務的措施"},{"start":846.263,"end":861.537,"text":"這些我都知道 不是不知道啦但是真正透過職聘中心去聘僱移工的僱主只有 我剛剛講的2.7%大家都知道政府這樣好不好 為什麼需要只有2.7%"},{"start":864.144,"end":870.186,"text":"那你問他說你為什麼沒有去使用你的原因是什麼他這裡有統計啊你們自己做的調查第一個61.8%的雇主說沒有後續代辦和管理服務第二個沒有時間親自管理也60%了第三個申辦文件太複雜佔了42.4%"},{"start":890.173,"end":897.007,"text":"這個代表什麼 你們的制度存在但是遠遠不是市場上主要招募的方式"},{"start":897.836,"end":920.263,"text":"然後你說我們要增加職聘 國內要多設多少點人家都知道你再設多少點也沒有用你說菲律賓海外有一個點你一方面把職聘當成落實零付費原則的一個解方但一方面對他的低使用率視而不見"},{"start":921.303,"end":937.33,"text":"而解決這個低使用率的原因其實我再講難聽一點 我也可以說他從以前到現在就是故意給他設計的可敬性很難用 可敬性太太低 很低"},{"start":939.313,"end":962.941,"text":"國內的職聘的可敬性太低 國外的職聘趨於尾移然後呢 反正到最後 就是丟給雇主自己去處理可是保定 在今天這種高度專業分工的社會裡面移工招募 文件作業 跨國媒合 入境安排到後續管理本來就有相當高的行政和實務門檻"},{"start":965.789,"end":990.389,"text":"你的可敬性又這麼的差多數的僱主還是會選擇由仲介辦理這不是懶惰和習慣這個是分工和效率的選擇分工和效率的現實問題所以政府你在這裡不是說抽象說我鼓勵職聘啊而是你要正視在仲介制度仍然是主流的情況下"},{"start":991.65,"end":1020.176,"text":"你要去切斷移工因招募費用而落入債務束縛甚至是抵債勞動的風險其實是很難的然後呢你要雇主全部買單中小企業90%的外籍移工都中小企業主在聘雇的對他們來講真的很沉重而你的國對國職聘沒有設定目標解決中小企業雇主的沉重的買工費的方法正本清源解決之道"},{"start":1021.556,"end":1048.901,"text":"就是國對國職聘 不管是職內的續聘 或是從外國的引入所以呢 保證 我們說台北的啦只要仲介存在的一天 他就是要賺錢中小企業啦 是使用 僱主啦 使用仲介這個管道他就是必須換成他買單而到時候 你說兩年 三年 到了 時間到了 非買單不可"},{"start":1050.783,"end":1074.766,"text":"這些中小企業主馬上就跳起來而你現在應該做的國對國職聘 你告訴我你的目標值要設定多少我可以跟委員說明在職聘的強化上面其實有幾件事情是必須的你通通都不用告訴我 我只要看到你兩個數字第一 你國對國職聘你未來一年設定多少人數 多少目標比例"},{"start":1075.507,"end":1090.805,"text":"然後國內的續聘的職聘服務你要設定多高的比例來改進你的2.7%然後三年對美國承諾了三年歐盟的一年半時間所剩不多你在這種狀況裡面要怎麼面對和因應"},{"start":1095.663,"end":1113.798,"text":"跟委員說明其實職聘最重要的關鍵其實就是必須要簡化我們現在聘僱的程序跟流程當然所以這部分其實現在是我們在強化職聘工作裡面的重中之重就是在這個部分所以這裡面要我們目前在檢討的工項非常多"},{"start":1114.178,"end":1137.435,"text":"沒關係啦 你這個通通都是 但我是要告訴你們首先你必須在這裡告訴我 你們自我期許的目標人數和職聘的比例 你的企圖心要把它提高到多少%這才是真正的講真話啦 其他喔 其他都是漫長過程啦 反不及急啦"},{"start":1138.203,"end":1165.241,"text":"跟文說明第一個所以你在這裡講得很好聽結果最後都是雇主承擔誰搞不好啊你的政策上硬是逼雇主吞下去啊中小企業主吞下去所以我們必須要強化職聘所以必須把這些政策工具要先把它檢討到位啊所以我在這裡作為一個立委要問責的就是國家和政府的責任就是國對國職聘和國內續聘的職聘比例要大幅提高"},{"start":1166.181,"end":1173.092,"text":"而在這裡我要聽到你回答我的是你自己自我設定的目標值和比例是多少你告訴我一個菲律賓海外職聘中心一年是多少人 一年是多少人"},{"start":1180.168,"end":1196.136,"text":"根文說明第一個這裡面當然也牽涉到好你告訴我你們這麼多年的菲律賓海外執聘中心了來這是今年才去不是沒關係不管你這一這幾個月這一年來聘了多少執聘了多少人進來根文說明第一個"},{"start":1197.694,"end":1218.859,"text":"在國對國的執聘裡面我們現在非常積極的跟四個來源國在討論MOU所以這也是為什麼昨天其實不要再講MOU我就是問你你自我設定多少目標而且不要忘了我們當然希望提到所有的外勞外籍移工輸出母國是全世界在搶工不是只有台灣而你又開放了外籍幫傭啊你忘了嗎"},{"start":1226.351,"end":1230.745,"text":"所以你不擴大這個需求外國也在搶工"},{"start":1232.529,"end":1240.116,"text":"然後這個是一個機會但是你可以去解決國對國職聘的問題你就告訴我你覺得2026年沒有辦法2026年二點多的職聘你的目標要設定多少我們當然希望能夠提高提高大家也要說這20年來大家保證都說希望提高"},{"start":1256.77,"end":1262.339,"text":"可是你到底要提高多少20年講了20年到現在國內殖民還是2.7%叫做提高嗎多少我現在是代替台灣的中小企業主"},{"start":1271.809,"end":1277.513,"text":"我們幫了移工絕對不能叫最弱勢的移工付這個買工費那老闆要付可是大老闆沒問題中小企業主他們就有問題了那我們可以幫他政府可以幫他們的就是國對國之拼也應該要幫他們的而且人家韓國政府就是這樣子做的"},{"start":1298.553,"end":1303.036,"text":"外國政府百分之百的在國對國執聘百分之百台灣我沒有叫你百分之百因為我們已經開放仲介了嘛人家做生意的就在那裡要賺錢的人就在那裡了我是叫你你總是要一步一步往前推進這個國家要一步一步的把責任扛回來啊"},{"start":1324.676,"end":1341.507,"text":"你要設定一個目標值而不是在這裡告訴我們說我的目標是提高廢話提高兩個字叫提高太容易了叫提高這兩個字太容易說出口可是卻沒有辦法看到它兌現而且你是洪森漢你不是其他人對啦好啦就這樣子我知道你也講不出口啦這才是真正的問題"},{"start":1355.922,"end":1378.732,"text":"我們其實最困難的工作我還是要講在這裡面最困難的工作是在於我們要把流程給改善跟簡化那你流程什麼時候要花多久的時間改善完畢跟文說明人家韓國早就都是透過這個程序所以我們當然現在韓國的流士有他山之石可以工作啦"},{"start":1379.588,"end":1401.001,"text":"所以委員我們當然是跟韓國我們也在看韓國的制度跟日本的制度他們目前相關的做法我們哪些部分可以納入那我直接就是問你你需要多久的時間改善這個流程讓他的肯定性很高讓一般人直接一般雇主就可以使用啊委員會有一些流程會比較快可以做"},{"start":1401.621,"end":1404.126,"text":"這個你都沒有辦法清楚的告訴我們連這個你都不敢說我們剛才其實已經有講了三個月內我們會把我們最余流程的檢討的說明提交到委員會來"},{"start":1413.26,"end":1435.634,"text":"提到委員會來 你對自己都沒有信心說你什麼時候會架構起一套讓僱主可進性非常高 然後讓移工的可進性也很高因為他是要媒合 他要媒合雙方 移工也要進來 僱主也要進來然後要移工的可進性很高 僱主使用的可進性也很高"},{"start":1436.494,"end":1457.457,"text":"人家韓國就是這麼做嘛我也質詢過你很多次了人家他山之石在那裡可以工作然後問你說 你就說最困難的就是其實要把這個媒合的這個系統做好那我問你什麼時候又做好 你也不知道不敢保證然後我說你到底要多高的比喻國度我們會在今年把這件事情"},{"start":1458.038,"end":1486.098,"text":"那很好那國對國的比例這個做好了那我明年就可以問你國對國的比例你的目標是什麼對我們會在今年來把這相關的拼顧的流程的部分給改善現在正在如何如何在檢討就是這個部分好我雖然覺得時間拖很久但我覺得要做了總比不做好了老實說好謝謝好謝謝林書文委員的發言也謝謝部長的答詢現在休息"}]}},{"id":"168357","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168357","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7a1e6a40ffda0c40cfa1e45401cc1f5858ce3249aa741ed4194175fee1b8a1d2e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"10:42:27 - 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我們請主委教練好 主委好"},{"start":12.768,"end":39.926,"text":"所以我們現在退補會所有的這個轉投資的事業裡面我看到跟能源的項目比較多不管是天然氣等等的有沒有比較偏向這個國防先端科技外面的這種事業比方說是無人載具比方說是國防科技比方說是航太產業這個部分有沒有這樣相關的業務有沒有投資到這些知識是國防工業這一塊對投資事業我們都"},{"start":40.779,"end":60.125,"text":"委員好,我是事業部處長,跟委員報告,我們目前22家轉投資公司,最主要是以傳統的事業為主,沒有這類的投資事業。因為我自己看,包含美國許多的退役的,不管是將領也好,軍官也好,士官也好,士兵也好,"},{"start":61.305,"end":86.266,"text":"他們參與很多國防產業他們退役之後有些是創新產業新創產業那有些直接是讓他們的這個人才庫可以有效的去運用那美國政府他自己有透過退伍軍人的創業跟中小企業的機制支持這種退役人就是退役的軍人的這種商務工作進入這個國防的產業鏈裡面法國的方向也是一樣法國國防部有一個"},{"start":87.571,"end":114.61,"text":"Defense Mobility我不太會講法文所以專門協助反正就是跟這個協助軍職人員轉職到民間產業那所以他們不是找工作他是把人才導入企業我想不是找我們直接投資的公司而是說這些人怎麼樣可以直接軍轉民但這個民又在這個國防產業裡面是一個活水所以他們這樣子等於是代代都可以做最好的人才的運用那"},{"start":116.823,"end":128.172,"text":"除了這個之外他們還有國防創新局國防創新局有點像是我們的DIO啦齁那就是由國防部跟這些推動的支持戰略性國防的新創產業或者是他們的新案"},{"start":129.281,"end":151.98,"text":"那我們回到台灣我們現在民雄有航太園區那也有產業園區那中央是定位為研發生產軍民兩用也就是說未來如果有這些一般的民間企業進駐就不是只是由軍直接軍軍人直接的進入著而是由一般的商業企業進駐的話會有100多家國內外企業進駐所以人才的需求是會更多"},{"start":152.6,"end":178.037,"text":"那我們不希望說這些軍人們過去在這個他們自己的軍種的訓練他們過去的能力的培養就只是就放在那邊就沒有辦法再活用後來都要去這些能源相關的公司傳統產業這跟他們的所學跟他們這二三十年所培養的技能沒有直接關係那我會覺得非常可惜所以我是希望我們現在接下來可以思考說轉投資的方向"},{"start":178.917,"end":196.077,"text":"未來我們的新創企業跟國防相關的企業絕對是會非常多就像美國一樣美國無人機產業無人機產業鏈或者是無人載具的產業鏈都是許多曾經在這個國防企業相關的然後轉來進駐進入這些公司來去繼續服務"},{"start":197.518,"end":220.067,"text":"那甚至這些我看我最近在看那個美國的這個前印太司令阿基里諾退役之後也是參加這些產業公司所以怎麼樣可以讓他們的過去所學過去所培養的技術還是能夠投注在我國的國防還是能夠強化我的國防那我覺得這是非常重要的包含主委也是啊像主委你過去的這些軍旅的經驗"},{"start":221.988,"end":245.248,"text":"不會可惜在這邊當然是很好但是如果未來甚至你從隊補會退休之後你的經驗還是可以繼續被運用不管是對戰略上面的規劃對你過去這些能力的這些規劃我都覺得是值得去思考的國防心臟產業非常多各種面向都有我真的很希望說這些軍人的朋友們他們能夠不是只是安置"},{"start":246.169,"end":260.146,"text":"安置在這個企業裡面又如何每個月領薪水不是的他們的能力是可以被活用的那甚至是可以擴大我們整個國防產業這我覺得是非常重要的這部分是不是可以請主委思考一下"},{"start":261.927,"end":278.373,"text":"我想委員這個意見非常可貴尤其在國防服務的不管是官士兵他們這塊的專業領域是非常難得的退了之後如何能夠再運用到我們的國防產企業或國防工業上面"},{"start":279.253,"end":306.658,"text":"這是非常重要就是它的所長能夠繼續留用那我們剛剛委員指導的轉投資事業在這一塊我們有它的限制因素我們轉投資事業主要是安置基金那安置基金它主要是照顧退伍軍人的輔導他們的就業安置到我們的這個轉投資事業單位22個單位裡面就是這個安置基金那剛剛委員指導這塊我覺得我們退伍可以做的第一個就是剛剛"},{"start":307.958,"end":336.457,"text":"就業處的一個執訓那他們下來之後依據他們的原來的專長我們透過執訓相關的專長的班隊不像無人機或者是AI或者相關的這些軍工所需要的人才我們透過執訓來培訓他們這是第一部分第二個就是我們跟這個這些軍工產企業了解之後去訪視了解之後我們把這些需要哪些專長我們可以把它納到我們的"},{"start":337.518,"end":359.434,"text":"居民專長轉換系統的就現在要產生這個系統裡面如果更借階我想這是比較快然後退下來馬上就可以就位謝謝主委我還是希望我們可以有創新一點的思考說可不可以不要在過去的框架裡面來去突破我們再研究其實這個是行政權"},{"start":361.874,"end":385.451,"text":"你們可以思考的方向我們只能提供建議我們在國會但是這是你們行政選方的如果你敢創新就是可以創新的好不好剛才有提到借街我們再補充一下借街的部分福壽商農場福壽商農場的離稅離就是離子的離稅就是稻稅的稅離稅就是我們在我們嘉義很多我們有高街裡高街裡的話是要嫁街"},{"start":385.891,"end":410.048,"text":"那嫁接的話才可以有出更好的品種比方說是有日本我們會從日本的新西縣啊秋田啊會進口梨穗那我為什麼要講到這件事情因為政府會的福壽山農場他們的梨樹品種非常的好那甚至是有梨王一棵樹可以嫁接三十幾種不同的品種那三十幾種不同的品種裡面有沒有考慮釋放出梨穗"},{"start":412.467,"end":429.472,"text":"這個部分可能要主委或者是其他相關的官員因為我們都還要再去日本去進口離稅那有些時候這個價格啦或者是中盤商等等的話那可能是會有一些挑戰那如果我們本國就有一個非常好的這個離網那這對我們的農業對我們嘉義的農業是很有幫助的"},{"start":433.023,"end":448.004,"text":"跟委員報告,我們在之前蘋果黃是嫁接了53種,那現在蘋果黃吃下去是嫁接26種,那梨樹是嫁接30幾種的品種沒錯,那原則上我們的梨子都是現有的品種"},{"start":448.925,"end":474.074,"text":"那如果說果農有需要的話我們可以提供少量的嫁接苗給他但是我們本身農場沒有在做那個農苗的那個就是樹苗的培育這樣子這部分我了解了 對但是如果你們有 主要是量啦就是最近這個從日本進口的這個中盤商的等等的這些問題所以我們一直在思考各種方式啦 對那你剛剛提到說嫁接有三十幾種不同的品種對不對"},{"start":475.154,"end":484.708,"text":"那我們的轉投資的傳統產業只有22種我覺得也蠻可惜的就我拿一個比方啦思考一下國防產業的創新這個部分好 謝謝謝謝委員指導"}]}},{"id":"168356","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168356","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc70ad9e768c3683186ff16f9abdda18f348ce3249aa741ed41e08a2c5bfbd339ef5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"10:39:01 - 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沙烏地阿拉伯比較接近比較接近 只有一個沙烏地阿拉伯我跟委員說明那為什麼還會漲 我就覺得奇怪委員 我跟你報告那應該是代表 基本上我們台灣 台肥的肥料"},{"start":475.292,"end":496.087,"text":"上半年3月之前是從杜拜那邊過來的然後大概5月開始是從東南亞、馬來西亞、越南這邊過來的所以它本身來的時候還有運費那運費因為石油提高所以它的現貨就跟股票一樣它的市場會因為行情的關係會去拉高"},{"start":497.295,"end":511.836,"text":"好 所以還是跟石油有關係了因為運費對 因為運費的關係 對所以這個還是要避免戰爭這個是台灣很多東西都是靠進口啦好 最後這個"},{"start":515.571,"end":532.782,"text":"謝謝農業部根據我上一次的質詢針對這個馬灘CN社福造成這些農機器的受損然後你們有這些補助但是因為很多的農機器沒有"},{"start":534.043,"end":548.383,"text":"還沒有那個證明,農機只用證明所以後來你們同意經過我的協調你們同意可以透過村里長的證明這方面非常謝謝你們"},{"start":550.586,"end":573.179,"text":"那因為你們時間有延長,到4月底了,這個很好這個部分也請農業部這邊到目前為止的辦理情形、補助的情形整理可以,我想我甚至要求我們同仁,就是在馬太安,因為馬太安的復建是一個不是一兩個月就能夠完成的"},{"start":573.579,"end":582.45,"text":"包括他的農田的復育的部分我希望說有一個完整的進度在網上讓關心這個案子的人了解好 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有請我們被提名人"},{"start":9.873,"end":32.312,"text":"我想有幾個問題來請教總長被提名人我相信任何被提名總長一個必考題大家會問到的基於整個民主政治這個整個澄清勵志大家都會想到查查會選那今年又是一個大選年地方選舉本席倒有一些感慨"},{"start":33.473,"end":56.571,"text":"不管 除了六都以外 我不敢說六都全部都沒有會選但是呢 你走出六都以外的一個地方啊各個縣市啊 應該總長被提名人在整個司法實務裡面那麼長的一段時間應該都會非常清楚啊那個會選喔 實在是真的是 真是太可怕太可怕你覺得我們基層選舉會選嚴不嚴重"},{"start":61.437,"end":86.859,"text":"越是偏鄉的很多的候選人還是認為買票是有效的是 這個是對台灣我們是民主政治到現在這個很迫切該去改革的一個問題啦你說我們兩回算好了沒有?很難了調查局也難了 警察也難了兩到八代表都什麼原因你知道 人情的因素啦"},{"start":88.611,"end":116.253,"text":"對 沒錯我大膽的講啊你很多偏鄉的地方啊超過90%基層選舉都是會選的我們都不知道 檢察官都不知道調查局都不知道 警察都不知道人情因素 人力的因素 舉證很困難的因素會選 現在跟以前就不一樣了以前是愛家愛婦啊 本味素啦上雷拼啦 發現金啦"},{"start":118.52,"end":134.066,"text":"五十 我小時候喔 管道選舉齁 我跟你講 一票五十塊 又加二十小時候我都看得到的 啊你繳幾個啊現在不是啦 現在你說到發現金也很難去想像現在幾乎都是買樁腳啦為什麼大家很會估票 因為調查局很會估票 你聽調查局在唬爛調查局哪會估票 那是樁腳在買票 很會估票所以現在買票都是買樁腳啊"},{"start":147.785,"end":152.649,"text":"故裝會在現金之前沒錯是嘛 幾乎都是這樣子的嘛所以我是覺得這個是被提問你必須要非常嚴肅去看待的問題我們法務部其實都非常嚴肅的去對外去宣示嚴查會選的一個決心可是那個成果在我這個從台北市"},{"start":174.017,"end":195.306,"text":"我台北去做議員,我看大家選立委我自己去做總幹事回到屏東,現在去任養台東我看那個基層選舉,那個會選是可怕真的是可怕,我用可怕來形容啦所以我請教被聽名人說,有什麼補嗎?現在已經發展到什麼了,你知道嗎?票卡,農會裡面的幹部出來了,里長、船長出來了已經不在台灣了,飛到中國去"},{"start":205.449,"end":215.476,"text":"裝腳把你給綁死 免費的招待平常都不會穿什麼裝腳啦 選舉要搞 你想現在你要抓賄權 我都覺得時間都有點晚了我看前陣子都幾乎請光啦 都已經帶到中國去啦那麼多的基層的幹部啊 全部這樣中央都要帶去中國去拚 像這種狀況"},{"start":229.585,"end":238.982,"text":"我們 你說都沒有掌握嗎 哪有可能沒有掌握對 這個一定會蒐證我希望聽到你的口中提出來就是說 你們有補嗎"},{"start":242.439,"end":264.889,"text":"跟委員報告行蹤掌握一定要掌握再來金流想辦法拿到金流他們的出入還有金流這個都是將來所謂的間接證據我們要收集很多的東西那我們的那個茶茶會選的獎金也是會是一個誘因這些都是我們之前要先掌握的但是報告委員"},{"start":265.729,"end":283.88,"text":"任何的會選到最後一定要有現金到選民手上這個是跑不掉的我們抓到這個才有機會再往回回售所以有很多很多的偵查作為也不會在這裡詳細的談我們所有的查查的團隊現在早就已經"},{"start":284.921,"end":313.227,"text":"天羅地王佈陷下去了所以這個我不能說100%的抓到但是我們一定會盡全力的嚴密的查查這個有點像什麼以前非洲有那個角馬經過那個河流鱷魚會去吃他們有這種理念就是一隻給你吃其他的我就安全了所以我們有限的人力我們要做最有效的一個佈局我要抓到最多的會選的人"},{"start":314.187,"end":331.553,"text":"那事實上會有執行的困難我們也會克服我們會調所有的可以支援的人力全力的來查查我們調查局都會有一些支援的人力還有所有的警力也都會投入檢察官也都會投入我們會盡全力的去布線盡全力去查查"},{"start":332.679,"end":360.165,"text":"本席喔 一直在司法法治委員會因為今年是選舉年啦我一定要緊盯這個議題啦我相信今年可以做出一個好成績啦這個不只是被提名的問題啦我相信黃次長也在這個地方喔這種要票要進到議會的都不會是好東西啦沒有說自己拿錢出來買票然後選上民意代表是要了為民服務沒有這麼崇高啦"},{"start":361.395,"end":384.543,"text":"那種買票進來的喔 我跟你講 都差不多十天內差不多全部在做這個有空不順的啦站在法務部的立場 站在總長被提名的立場你如果有一天 通過了立法院的一個提名以後我期待啊 對於今年整個地方選舉年加大力道 嚴格查查 打擊會選 好不好"},{"start":385.603,"end":400.811,"text":"好 現在已經開始在進行好 這樣你告訴我一個問題 我就是要你充分第二個 我在期許啦 但你的偵查不公開那個那個不要開玩笑啦有時候還沒有看到起訴書 還沒有起訴在偵辦當中啊 這個過程裡面啊這樣背來背去 到最後證明 唉唷 夭壽真的都有這一些"},{"start":406.974,"end":435.794,"text":"跟整個偵辦的內容有關這個從以前講到現在這個黃次長在這個地方也被問過很多次你們要如何去避免你們這個內控的一個機制你不可能民眾去幫你洩漏管道總是從你檢察官不管是調查員或者說書記官或者說律師律師不容易啦我看那個出來的部分啦在偵查當中出來那個幾乎都是用手機去拍的了嘛"},{"start":436.434,"end":448.292,"text":"那所以偵查不公開的部分是不是也請你在這個地方來做一個宣示這你是要怎麼去避免否則對整個司法的公信力尤其對檢察官的部分那個都是很大的搶害"},{"start":449.414,"end":475.578,"text":"我想偵查不公開檢討小組跟督導小組一定要落實來做檢討那如果發現有這些就是說偵查不公開的可疑的時候那高檢署一定要督導 地檢署要分案偵辦而且要真正的落實去偵辦並且在一定時間不影響偵查不公開的情況之下一定要對外說明我覺得這一個是要落實這一點一定要落實"},{"start":476.278,"end":485.023,"text":"因為他的確傷害了我們整個國人對於我們司法的一個信任而且這對當事人權益是很大的傷害但是"},{"start":486.419,"end":510.347,"text":"第一個但是查起來非常的困難第二個洩漏的人可能的人很多不一定是檢察官只是因為今天檢察官是偵查主體所以大家很容易就把這個責任丟到檢察官的身上其實我當檢察官這麼久哪有一個檢察官願意去洩漏這些東西這會造成偵查很大的阻礙所以我想不透怎麼會有這樣子的思維那當然"},{"start":512.188,"end":541.096,"text":"有人就會解讀說搶當官啊 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結果網頁立刻就修改了部長你知道嗎我們忘完之後就修改這個哇 上了一個這個頁面還不是上新喔也不是更新也不是新聞也不是說跟各位這個抱歉我們需要更多的時間我是部長李陽希望大家再給我們一點時間沒有直接在同一個頁面改網頁"},{"start":152.331,"end":161.311,"text":"所以116年完成這個這種超越時空之數部長可不可以這個假設真的是跳票我覺得不太好吧我們有沒有機會"},{"start":162.95,"end":188.271,"text":"具體的來講什麼時候可以完成可不可以再跳票可不可以加速作為這個基本政策的藍圖我理解你的用意是好的那趕快規劃那今年預算書送來以前我們可以趕快來審跟委員您報告那很感謝你對於我們運動政策白皮書的重視那謝謝您看到我們在官網上的部署那確實這點上面是我們運動部需要去檢討的那後續我們當然會盡速去完成運動政策白皮書的規劃時間"},{"start":190.651,"end":215.857,"text":"時間目前是規劃於116年完成那當然我們會儘速完成對 部長您笑得也是有點尬尬的啦您也知道本來是去年年底要完成的如果你到116年2027的話一拖拖兩年我不知道您的任期會不會可不可以快一點啊這116年寫得不清不楚的啊到底是年初年中還是年底"},{"start":217.247,"end":237.167,"text":"跟委員您報告那我們當然真的會盡速去完成因為運動這次白米蘇是我們未來十年的大方向我提示一下部長本來2025年年底就要完成了你理論上我覺得我們應該要期待2027年年初吧是吧因為你就delay一年多這已經有點誇張了我們能不能機會瞄準2027年初啊"},{"start":241.155,"end":261.015,"text":"跟委員您報告我們會盡量在這個2027年年初想辦法完成太好了謝謝我想部長這樣勇於認識我們絕對大家都會非常非常的感恩感動就是說重視運動我們大家一起來努力那您過去作為運動員我們也想來關心一下這個另外的這種運動的項目其實"},{"start":263.377,"end":274.857,"text":"非常多的東西要改善然後其實暑假即將到來民眾要參與水上活動的頻率開始增加那想跟部長聊一下有關救生員人數的問題這張圖不知道部長有沒有看過"},{"start":276.677,"end":299.169,"text":"跟委員您報告確實是第一次太好了我覺得這樣的交流就非常有意義其實這張圖是歷年救生員檢定的預算數和通過的人數圖中我們可以看到108、109年實施公辦檢定以後通過的人數大幅滑落你可以看到而且預算增加線性增加成效突然在107、108年就大幅下滑"},{"start":299.989,"end":326.604,"text":"那這裡面呢有非常多是制度的改變那一開始初中是良善的希望可以更嚴謹的來做考核可是嚴謹的考核初中利益良好結果結論是沒有辦法提升了導致我們的救生員就一直開始進入一個缺乏的狀態有非常多的游泳池水道縮減有很多的游泳池減少開放的天數有很多的游泳池沒有辦法開放"},{"start":327.324,"end":345.149,"text":"我覺得這都是可以討論,但最可怕的是救生員不足很可能會導致我們的水上活動的安全會受到影響所以我想請問,我們上一次去年底有請教過黃次長跟全民署的房署長署長說有想辦法要解決,比如說增加公辦檢定的場次"},{"start":349.75,"end":372.628,"text":"在公檢委辦上面去提供器材的租借所以我想請問一下部長或者是同仁啦就是說今年救生員的公辦檢定打算辦幾場有沒有要增加因為之前有單案要增加那對委辦公檢委辦的部分有沒有多提供一些幫助那預期我們今年的成效我們今天2026嘛成效如何能夠產生多少位救生員"},{"start":373.268,"end":383.246,"text":"跟委員您先做一個報告那5月起我們確實會辦理大概20場的利害關係人的深度訪談那比較詳細的部分不知道是不是可以請署長來是是請署長"},{"start":386.128,"end":406.838,"text":"謝謝委員關心 針對那個今年度救生員那個檢定的場次我們預計是辦理60場那一樣嘛 去年沒有增加因為我們那個場次的部分我們會因應不同的需求來做一個調整沒關係 部長已經聽到了啦 其實就沒有增加那第二個問題 有沒有公檢委辦有沒有在提供器材的租借"},{"start":407.358,"end":430.947,"text":"有 目前我們會朝這個方向來你怎麼朝這個方向來 借了沒嘛借出去了沒嘛提供的資源給了沒嘛有 只要有那個民間的認可機構這邊要辦我們這邊都會提供我們聽到了你們要有辦法你們要主動積極夏天就要到了Summer is coming你們不能說我們在這裡等著你來啊不是吧 我們不是這種態度吧"},{"start":431.847,"end":448.072,"text":"對 近幾月大概也都密集的辦理了四場我們按照那個相關的一個期程這邊來工檢委辦今年有辦四場嗎工檢委辦我們都有在辦理啊不是 幾場工檢委辦的部分我們今年就是預計六十場"},{"start":450.767,"end":475.746,"text":"欸 署長 部長在這裡 我們講話要清楚啦公辦檢定六十場啦 不是公檢委辦六十場啦 是吧對啊 這個國會殿堂講話要很具體好不好因為我們現在的問題就是說 你公辦檢定的數量一直沒有增加你公檢委辦的數量也沒增加 而且你一旦調整以後人數就巨減嘛"},{"start":477.908,"end":486.632,"text":"那你這樣調一調 到底今年能產生多少個救生員本來是700嘛 736嘛 今年預計多少"},{"start":490.709,"end":507.002,"text":"這個我們可能再查詢一下我們會後再回報因為還是要看每個場次現在四月了理論上今年的結果我們應該去年就已經有預定了我們才能夠規劃相關的預算啦人力嘛好 每個場次報名嘛來 我們就來講"},{"start":510.953,"end":528.344,"text":"你講得很好為什麼你們估不出來不管估很簡單嘛你們去年的公檢委辦只辦了三場而且成效明顯不佳原因很多檢定的場地跟訓練場地規範不同檢定要求水深150公分而多數的訓練場地這個也請部長關心"},{"start":530.965,"end":545.659,"text":"多數的訓練場地只有140公分就差這10公分就一堆場地就沒有辦法辦檢定了導致場地難尋第二個容易虧損機構不願意辦理依照我們現在新的檢定辦法一場檢定要42個人報名才能夠不虧錢就各種條件你要丟繩子要什麼"},{"start":550.623,"end":568.416,"text":"本席了解去年就有委辦是沒招辦42人的這機構辦不起來啊你弄了三場展示了辦一場賠一場誰要來跟你公檢委辦到時候全部是公辦檢定人數又不夠你場次也不願意增加部長拜託回去研議一下到底什麼狀況是難以達成的"},{"start":570.538,"end":587.505,"text":"那這個研議的部分可不可以兩個月內給本席一個改善的狀況為什麼抓兩個月啊我知道這個辛苦夏天要到了好不好這個而且這個每年都有夏天啊部長可不可以兩個月內研議一下公務員報告謝謝你重視這個救生員的這個相對的機制那我們兩個月內"},{"start":589.226,"end":615.504,"text":"給委員您謝謝有一些情況我也想讓部長了解因為你看其實喔114年的救生員訓練這是訓練的部分不是檢定的部分訓練的部分其實能夠如期辦理的場次只有11個地方你看那個開辦率有很多0%的代表什麼你不只是公辦檢定的場次不足訓練出來的人數不夠跟以前的破千人到現在只有700人不夠你訓練因為你要訓練完才能來檢定考試嘛"},{"start":617.685,"end":632.522,"text":"就訓練的部分也一直在降有這種零趴的部長也能不能在演繹的部分側面了解一下到底什麼原因好不好到底是考照流程太複雜還是因為他訓練要錢考試又要錢需不需要一些幫忙"},{"start":634.023,"end":649.693,"text":"還是說這個工作我們因為法規太嚴謹了導致未來上班很容易被告薪資責任不對等等拜託部長我想每一個運動我們一體共事而且為什麼我很重視這一題因為阿宅腰不太好啦"},{"start":650.333,"end":672.387,"text":"游泳是一個很好的比較伸展的一個運動我相信台灣有很多人會因為這個運動受益這全民運動的一個很重要的項目啦所以這個未來朝這個方向努力可以嗎可以 謝謝委員那另外喔救生員人數是人類人類我們現在再把它提升起來其實需要一點時間那我們一直在討論到科技的"},{"start":673.447,"end":698.046,"text":"那本席去年質詢有提到AI防逆系統那有詢問是不是有機會可以裝設多一點的AI防逆就是說在這個過渡期啦我相信部長一定會做得很好把救生員人數拉起來可是這個過渡期啊當時我們資訊的時候啊黃次長有說可以朝這個方向來努力就多裝設多一點的AI防逆系統來保障民眾的安全那這個溺水啊台灣的這種運動意外啦"},{"start":700.228,"end":717.001,"text":"是排名非常前面的前三名那這個部長了解一下你也會嚇一跳那我們說說希望朝更多裝一些AI防禦的系統來努力當時次長說黃次長說可以朝這個方案來努力多一點沒有問題但是這一次的報告我們有看到"},{"start":718.302,"end":736.955,"text":"確實啦有幫AI防疫科技放進創新運用但是裡面提到的導入台中市、新北市、高雄市以及金門縣的場域這些其實都是過去看到的啦今年的規劃是什麼 有沒有編列預算可不可以多做一點 部長還有同仁可不可以來說明一下"},{"start":742.079,"end":765.598,"text":"那委員所提到的金門縣其實就是今年補助的個案那主要是因為去年底我們公告真案之後由地方政府所提出來申請那其中在科技防疫的部分是由金門縣政府提出那我們在去年底核定補助從今年會開始謝謝那我剛剛講為什麼時序我要講得很清楚就是說你們金門我們也很感謝"},{"start":766.198,"end":788.433,"text":"但是金門的這個預算跟規劃是更早之前就做好了我的質詢的時候其實金門的已經決定了那我質詢的時候黃次長有說還可以再多一點那今年我們現在是沒有看到所以今年AI的防疫可不可以再增加不然黃次長在國會殿堂跟我說會多一點結果並沒有安排這怎麼這個可不可以信守當時"},{"start":790.915,"end":814.149,"text":"這個運動部的承諾能不能再多一些AI防溺的相關的規劃讓國人在水上運動不管是開放水域啦現在開放水域也可以裝AI防溺喔游泳池也可以喔部長能不能在暑假前提供一份我國各地AI防溺系統的裝設情況以及未來規劃的報告如果今年的我們還能夠用什麼形式再去加強"},{"start":815.37,"end":838.749,"text":"能不能做到這第一個報告一份報告可不可以在暑假前我想也許委員暑假應該是七月七月那我就覺得要快一點啦兩個月內好不好AI防疫的部分兩個月內兩個月內好不好然後呢也希望部長也就了解一下還有沒有空間因為趕快做因為你說人員訓練在考試那很長相輔相成"},{"start":839.449,"end":862.423,"text":"可是如果AI再進來那我們就立刻說明今年我們就可以看到游泳人數大增為什麼水稻不是縮減而是增加游泳池哇更多的開放這個我覺得會是讓大家很感念部長的一個非常重大的作為好不好這涉及國人的安全那也讓國人多一點運動部長一定要重視此事我們一起努力好嗎沒有問題謝謝委員關心謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168368","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168368","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7ca1451af9c26699fd16b10bbffbc7f67775daf2063192877d6989c2027b9690b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"11:00:06 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謝主席 尤其是李洋部長部長早安部長早"},{"start":16.089,"end":33.855,"text":"我想世界棒球經典賽您也在現場所以這個所帶來的感動我想大家記憶猶新可是棒球這個發展能有今天這樣的成績我想也不是一蹴可擊那是國家要長期投入對運動員的支持 栽培 培訓"},{"start":34.875,"end":48.522,"text":"所以嘴巴上說支持為台灣隊加油的藍白兩黨其實實際上他們就是在扯我們整體運動發展最大的後腿怎麼說 運動部好不容易催生了"},{"start":50.424,"end":60.714,"text":"運動部除了選手的照顧 栽培以外其實我們很大的就是要發展所謂的運動產業那可是藍白為了搞政治鬥爭啊那卻有300卻有38.8億的預算"},{"start":65.549,"end":89.634,"text":"招攬白硬生生的擋下來連付我都不付為那其中包含我們新興資本支出及新增預算有8.6億還有延續性的計畫增加的額度有30.2億好 那運動部就是一個新興的部會那我想李洋部長你從一個這個選手來擔任這個部長我想也是這個任重道遠可是這個新成立的部會預算"},{"start":91.074,"end":115.481,"text":"連省都不省 大規模被擋了下來那這樣子的話 怎麼樣去好好的把運動部發展所以目前這樣運動部的規模 我感覺啊比原本的體育署還不如啊那好 昨天發生了一件憾事喔就是2026的台灣田徑公開賽那本來 他說因為立法院的預算遲遲未審議嘛所以他就被迫取消"},{"start":116.181,"end":136.507,"text":"那這樣的一個公開賽的迎標我想是很多選手要進這個名古屋亞運的很重要一個賽事所以一旦取消我想會嚴重影響到選手的權益那我想選手也為了備戰這個公開賽也都調整好自己的腳步那現在突然喊咖不只說什麼積分我想這個對選手的這個訓練狀態心理調適都有很大的影響"},{"start":142.389,"end":159.411,"text":"那況且我想這屆的這個台灣田徑公開賽好不容易是被世界田徑總會升格為週季巡迴賽這個贏標籤我想部長你應該非常清楚喔這個贏標它有多具指標性喔它全世界只有46上"},{"start":160.452,"end":163.416,"text":"46場的賽事獲得這個銀標籤的認證那甚至亞洲區也只有四個市場那其中一場就在我們台灣所以我想這個占比其實是非常低不到一成那而且這個銀標籤已經等同於世大運的這個積分的規模"},{"start":177.176,"end":187.643,"text":"所以這對於我們台灣的這個田徑運動的發展是很大的突破就那麼重要的賽事那突然因為預算的問題那突然被迫取消我想這個其實這個很難想像啦那對台灣的田徑選手其實也很難負責任所以我想要請部長說明"},{"start":195.569,"end":220.939,"text":"就昨天田協在公布台灣田徑公開賽的資訊後不到6個小時他就宣布取消這中間你了解他的決策的過程到底是怎麼樣啊那為什麼田協用公開喊話的方式表達說預算短缺是一個問題那在田協喊話之前運動部你有沒有跟他們表達說其實還是可以辦"},{"start":221.619,"end":238.789,"text":"因為可以用你剛剛有回答委員說可以用基金來處理那這部分你怎麼說跟委員您報告首先很感謝您對於我們運動員參賽權益因為他這個田徑公開賽的部分確實也是一個名古屋亞運達標的賽事那這部分其實我們運動部的同仁一直都有跟田協來輔導"},{"start":240.991,"end":259.183,"text":"這個說今年因為現行的狀況來講我們的公務預算確實沒辦法動之那現行的狀況來講我們一直在輔導各個協會在舉辦國際賽事的部分來使用這個基金的預算這一邊那我們運動部的同仁一直都有跟田協來做這個接洽以及輔導"},{"start":260.239,"end":284.178,"text":"那填寫是沒有聽懂啊不然他怎麼會宣布取消可能在輔導的過程中這個可能在今天之後我們還是會繼續輔導這個填進協會我們還是希望能將這個賽事能夠繼續舉辦在我們台灣所以您是希望我們大家也都希望可是希望能不能成真啊所以賽事能不能繼續啊講白一點"},{"start":285.257,"end":303.253,"text":"這部分今天我們會繼續跟田徑協會來做溝通我們當然運動部以及委員我相信我們都希望這個比賽繼續來舉辦那我們會積極來跟田徑協會來做輔導好 那甘部長你說如果能舉辦也是用基金來支援嘛可是這應該不是常態吧"},{"start":303.934,"end":318.01,"text":"就是說它不是長期的這個良性的運動的發展因為公務預算 你原本打算是用公務預算來支出嘛用公務預算的支出才是有穩定度那你現在反反覆覆嘛因為現在就是預算"},{"start":318.831,"end":325.572,"text":"不審嘛 那預算沒通過嘛所以我想這個對台灣的這個運動的國際信譽其實也很大的傷害然後也傷害國家選手的權益所以我想齁 這個藍白不審預算然後美其民啊 說挑幾項他們想要的然後就說這個可以什麼先行 新興計畫什麼先行動之啊可是我們根據立法院啊 這個職權刑事法第七條"},{"start":346.937,"end":350.602,"text":"預算案本應該經過三讀通過啊所以他這種胡搞的動資案根本沒有潛力而且國家預算是整包欸我們是為了國家整體發展的一個總策略不是攘白說拆 說切割就切割處理所以以上的疑慮喔"},{"start":364.861,"end":391.88,"text":"就大家也都覺得你是不是真的可以這樣子這邊切一塊這邊切一塊來先行動之部長你怎麼看你是不是認為總預算就是要整包整體一起通過不是用這種挑撿的零散的式的方式來處理跟委員報告這點當然是我們希望說總預算可以通過那當然確實在現行的狀況下我們還是會積極輔導各個協會來使用這個基金預算我們還是希望說我們可以身為運動部可以保障所有運動員的參賽權益"},{"start":394.411,"end":418.987,"text":"好 那談到預算問題除了這個剛提到的台灣田徑公開賽以外那我要跟部長反映一下就我們台南市上個禮拜舉辦的這個國小樂樂棒球比賽那現場的工作人員說明年的比賽可能會停辦因為預算被砍他是這樣說啦那台南市體育局是說明說這個普及化的這個樂樂棒球賽是中央計畫補助這個"},{"start":421.308,"end":433.448,"text":"就是他補助中央的計畫他補助舉辦全國的這個決賽跟地方的預賽可是今年中央就只有補助全國的決賽那甚至先行預告明年起可能要取消"},{"start":435.005,"end":461.032,"text":"我們很清楚啦棒球是國球喔那樂樂棒球雖然跟一般的棒球不太一樣可是它因為球具安全那場地也不受限那男女老幼都可以一起來參加所以它是接觸棒球的最佳入門所以這個也是所謂的推廣球迷運動那一環所以現在好因為中央運算的問題那這些地方型的這種普及化運動就被迫取消那部長你覺得這個部分你怎麼看怎麼處理面對這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":463.766,"end":486.395,"text":"跟委員您報告那這個是不是請詳細的部分由署長來待會回答會比較好好謝謝委員關心針對那個115年度那個我們普及化運動是熱熱棒跟那個大隊接力的部分過往是在體育署實在有一直延續在辦理參與的對象大概都是校園裡面的一個小朋友以班級為主隊"},{"start":487.856,"end":497.54,"text":"那15年度我們今年這個針對全國決賽部分我們這邊還是會延續的來舉辦這個沒有問題所以地方預算就不補助地方的預算的部分我們這邊就是可能就預算關係我們沒有辦法說全部補到22個縣市全部都辦理地方的預算決賽的部分我們這邊目前也已經有積極在規劃所以今天的部分沒有問題然後針對是不是116年度這個部分我們這邊會提兩個部會"},{"start":517.649,"end":525.472,"text":"我們大概都有定期溝通的平台我們明年的辦理方式或是辦理的對象這個部分我們會跟教育部這邊再來做一個討論跟溝通好 所以很明顯嘛就是說我們這個國中小這個普及化運動這個計畫我想因為預算沒有省而導致很多東西都被卡關不是現在本來地方預算地方的預算可以補助現在也不行現在只能補助全國的決賽"},{"start":545.237,"end":568.291,"text":"那所以可能縣市政府如果在會礙於經費的問題可能地方的預算也沒辦法辦就如同台南市政府他就說明年可能不辦了之類的好 所以我想要請運動部來盤點一下就是因為預算這個不省的狀況之下有哪些運動項目有受影響那影響的程度如何那我想是不是給本席一個書面報告一個影響的衝擊評估報告 好不好"},{"start":571.089,"end":599.718,"text":"可以 委員謝謝好 那另外跟您討論就是說亞太這個城邦主球場的問題喔那天我們那個統一師開幕戰你也在場喔那我想你也很清楚就現在這個主球場是台南市政府來管理可是除了城邦主球場以外的其他的六座球場都是依循這個國家棒球訓練基地的計畫由運動部來管理那所以部長您來看就是說"},{"start":600.958,"end":617.906,"text":"亞太棒球村整個球場包括主球場是台南市政府國訓中心是六座那整個怎麼樣整合它的資源整合的管道假設未來有日植 韓植的球團"},{"start":618.686,"end":646.528,"text":"要來台南來春訓那或者說來台南打這個國際賽的這個球隊他怎麼樣去妥善的運用這邊的一些設施所以這個是不是需要做一些整合所以我是認為啦運動部的角色就不只是輔助而已我想你應該主動去扮演領導的角色那通過有效的資源整合才能讓亞太棒球村成為台灣的棒球心臟"},{"start":647.549,"end":674.006,"text":"那我上個會期就有提過說我們現在大聯盟球隊啊都廣泛引進那個智慧發球機這個部長你很清楚那用真實的這個投手的投影片那包括數據模擬這個投手真實狀況然後像這次經典賽我們就用台灣研發自己研發的高階的發球機來做訓練所以部長剛剛有提到亞太已經是一個現在國家棒球的訓練基地那後續"},{"start":675.247,"end":702.262,"text":"會不會引進更先進的這些運科的設備來提供選手做訓練那另外就是我剛剛提到的怎麼資源整合包括選手的住宿、膳食怎麼樣這個空間怎麼樣規劃部長跟委員您報告那我們也感謝您對亞太國家的棒球訓練基地的重視那確實我們也希望說將亞太國家棒球訓練基地打造的是像委員您所說的這樣是可以成為我們一個培訓的一個基地"},{"start":702.722,"end":711.136,"text":"那目前都有在做跟這個台南市以及棒協去做這個了解然後以及就接下合作那這部分我們會繼續積極的往這個方向走"},{"start":713.39,"end":741.369,"text":"因為那裡其實縣目前還非常陽春啊雖然說這個球場都起來了可是我剛說的住宿啦 膳食啦那個生活機能都還沒有有所以是不是你要打在一個所謂的棒球村必須要有這些生活機能那未來春訓的這個選手過來也會比較容易選擇我們這樣一個場地所以我想這個要請部長再做一些資源整合盤點怎麼跟台南市政府攜手合作來打造這個棒球的這個心臟好不好"},{"start":742.109,"end":758.497,"text":"那另外花一點時間跟你談一下水上救生因為水上救生它是在結合游泳跟救生技巧一個競技運動那溺水除了2023年正式被聯合國世界衛生組織列為重要的公共衛生議題"},{"start":759.457,"end":779.764,"text":"在國際救生總會的努力之下他已經說服了這個澳洲的澳委會跟IOC國際奧林匹克委員會體育部門的支持國際救生總會會正式提出申請計畫在2032年在澳洲主辦的奧運會要把水上救生運動正式列為奧運"},{"start":781.144,"end":804.215,"text":"比賽項目所以我想台灣在水上救生的競技培育上因為我們每年都舉辦全國中學生水上救生運動這個錦標賽這個賽事表現的部分其實像在2024澳洲世界救生錦標賽中台灣的男子組他的選手在12.5公尺的拋繩救生項目勇奪金牌"},{"start":804.855,"end":831.073,"text":"那創造我國國家隊在世界救生錦標賽首度奪牌的歷史那可是救生救水上救生比賽這個重視的程度我們台灣對這個比賽重視的程度其實我覺得遠不及其他的水上運動所以部長既然它已經有可能列為未來的奧運項目所以你是不是要對這個水上救生這個運動這個競技投入更多的資源這個部分你有什麼想法規劃"},{"start":832.115,"end":839.688,"text":"跟委員您報告那這部分我們會去了解水上救生運動的部分我們會去規劃他們跟協會這邊規劃他們的這個資源的分配好 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謝謝主席 那有請徐備提名人請備提名人委員好好 您好喔在今天的口頭報告當中呢您有提到辦案不應該只是要追求定罪率更應該要有針對這個面對的因為錯案要有這個糾錯跟認錯的這個能力"},{"start":34.189,"end":38.57,"text":"本期就想要問你 你若成為檢察總長你個人將要善用非常上訴的權利想請問的是說如果有判決是違法取證或是估罪認定判決理由矛盾等冤錯的情形你會主動提起非常上訴嗎另外冤案就不會是一個個案你會在任內主動建立起冤錯案的盤點機制"},{"start":60.577,"end":70.636,"text":"並且加入到定期檢查的設計嗎那你剛才有這個想法就是說是不是你的想法裡面現在在法界裡面有具體公開的實際案例呢"},{"start":73.063,"end":94.671,"text":"好 各位委員報告 刑事訴訟法441條判決 確定判決如果有違背法令的話檢察總長德提及非常上述這是法定的職權那只要說這個判決 這個判決他真的是違背法令那我們有義務你會主動嗎 因為這是你在報告中所提起來的"},{"start":95.191,"end":114.034,"text":"主動就是這樣你看那個案件量我不可能去海撈我們希望有當事人自己來申請或者是有民間團體來申請這個我們來起可以起這個頭否則我們如果知道我們當然會去主動去做好你就主動就知道了那有這個盤點的機事你在你的報告當中其實有提到有"},{"start":114.634,"end":131.771,"text":"台高檢有一個有罪判決檢討小組他們會定期 他們甚至於在檢討的六十幾件裡面其中有一件送到最高檢察署來審查是否提及非常上訴那我們這裡本身也有爭議性的死刑案件的審查小組那請問這部分你有沒有具體的像你剛剛那一件是什麼是你預計會提起來的嗎"},{"start":133.513,"end":140.842,"text":"我們這只有統計數據那如果詳細的資料的話我們要再回給我想說你既然已經要做檢查總長應該這部分就應該有一些想法不然你不會提出這些主動的我們是有目前你公開了解都沒有嗎有沒有說哪一件事你覺得應該要做的這些事情"},{"start":152.515,"end":177.244,"text":"就有一件送來非常傷處因為我們當時就是得到消息的時候去拿資料是兩天前而已那你之後是不是給本刑理科官那件是什麼樣的資料可以嗎?可以可以好謝謝那我們繼續往下看另外我們知道本黨的問卷當中有針對無限抗告跟財的反覆措施這個爭議就有提問你那您對於司法院106年10月院會所做的這個羈押抗告改革制度當中你的看法是怎麼樣?"},{"start":178.12,"end":203.522,"text":"我們同意我們司法院這一個修正以後能夠在二審的抗告法院能夠直接進為裁定這樣也免得這個案子上上下下上上下下浪費偵查的時間這需要修法嗎對要修法我們同意那這邊你上去就修法我這樣講我修正一下這不是我能同意的我知道啦修法法務部的立場是同意的我們也都樂觀其成"},{"start":204.403,"end":221.601,"text":"好 這樣希望都可以看到改變那對無限次抗告跟更裁與憲政這是不是也是有在考慮的一個範圍之內呢我想還沒修法以前檢察官的工作就是監督法院所做的裁定跟判決所以我們是公益的代表那您的意見呢"},{"start":222.762,"end":227.145,"text":"我們同意抗告法院能夠直接就裁定大家就不用再爭執了我同意但是在還沒有修法以前站在檢察官的職責公益代表人的立場我們為了要發現真實我們當然會據理力爭"},{"start":245.589,"end":260.12,"text":"好 既然就是在說如果上級的抗告的這個法庭如果說自行裁決的話其實就已經可以解決很後面的問題嘛 對不對好 那我們希望說這部分呢不管是怎麼樣其實誰讓檢察總長我們都希望說這部分既然檢察署這邊有這個意見的話呢就應該往這邊慢慢去修訂是好 謝謝您好 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安全量部長有講說150天嘛但是我們石油管理法"},{"start":261.705,"end":275.602,"text":"一百四十幾天那我們私有的管理法裡面是九十天那還有部分的空間那本身在這邊是說可不可以我們去評估估算一下可不可以釋出一些儲油來做一下我們市場評議價格的一個方式"},{"start":279.408,"end":303.973,"text":"因為現在我們油價是有一個公式但是我們大部分都是事實上是中油在吸收了所以我會這麼提就是說中油我們油價它已經吸收75%那我們市場包括現在原物料高漲的情形之下你說不缺貨但是原物料還是在漲這就很奇怪了缺貨才會漲結果不缺貨也還是漲"},{"start":305.313,"end":323.558,"text":"那所以說如果去平易市場的價格我們是不是可以釋出一些我們的這個儲油呢報告委員那個油的部分汽油器材油的部分是一部分那那個油物料是清油是石油腦的部分那個是兩邊是有一點點不一樣"},{"start":324.338,"end":339.433,"text":"那我剛剛講的那個一百四十幾天是汽柴油的一個部分是那椅膝的部分那個石油鳥 那個石油鳥那原油呢那我們現在就是用平價原油的儲量夠嗎原油是OK的啊可以釋出嗎那個是汽柴油的部分大概有多少天呢"},{"start":340.234,"end":361.904,"text":"不是 汽柴油的部分那個就是有140幾天啊那個 而現在就是說那個乙烯上油這個說叫氫油或是叫石油腦那個部分我們用評價的方式供應給這個 評價 注意評價評價就不會抬高物價 這很重要那接下來本席想請教的是說那個我們的原油裡面有提煉出個瀝青對不對"},{"start":363.364,"end":391.59,"text":"那力清剛剛統計的話是沒有缺貨嗎可以到五月底對五月底但是本市要給部長一個個案我們桃園力清是缺料的因為現在力清的最主要就是我們道路工程上最需要的原料嘛現在缺貨的話我們道路的拓寬工程都會被延宕所以請部長去了解一下我們桃園有六家力清的供應商到今天早上我問了"},{"start":392.37,"end":419.746,"text":"還是缺貨還是缺貨所以很多道路工程本身爭取的這個榮池路啊第一級工程第二級工程工期啊第二級工程就放下來了沒辦法鋪了那不可能去做鋼性路面啊鋼性路面是水泥混凝土的吧可是鋼性路面不好啊草雜積水等等問題都不好還是要用瀝青的嘛所以這方面部長科技幫我們了解嗎好 我們來了解"},{"start":421.147,"end":436.6,"text":"部長這方面的話本席因為現在原物料都高漲大家不管是產業也好民眾生活開銷都要增加的部分那去年的部分也是有原物料各方面的漲價所以我們"},{"start":438.983,"end":448.212,"text":"在5月份馬上就要報稅了但是報稅的期間去年是有延了一個月的時間減輕到產業跟民眾的經濟壓力可不可以請部長也跟財政部這邊做個討論可不可以比照去年讓我們報稅的時間延後到6月30號呢"},{"start":459.422,"end":480.395,"text":"幫委員 委員的意見我們會轉達不過跟委員補充一下就是說上個月的這個物價上漲率大概是1.2%啦所以還算平穩啦不過委員的意見我們還是會轉達在幫我們轉達啦因為大家這個剛剛一直提到就是市場齁我們要去評議這個價格"},{"start":482.336,"end":507.513,"text":"他們會恐慌才會去搶購搶購就會缺貨缺貨又有囤積的情形所以這市場價格的話我們希望不管是公平會陳主委也要注意我們的產發署這邊對產業上面有沒有囤貨的情形在我們競銷發表都可以知道所以我們經濟部這邊再回去討論一下如何去平抑市場價格跟我們的所有的物料好不好好 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現在既然占床率蠻高的我們要知道說你這個制度做修正之後這些護理人員有沒有準時如實的到位以確保容家的服務品質所以請問主委我們現在從委外轉為約用或者是在過渡等等現在護理人員318名合配的護理人員目前通通到位了嗎實際到位多少人 招募的進度怎麼樣"},{"start":97.476,"end":118.178,"text":"包圍378那個是總數的編制就百分之一百你通通到位的話佔項列都滿的話要那麼多人但我們現在是佔項列百分之八成所以現在的人力318是足以夠了是可以滿足需求318已經全部到位了是可以到位了到位現在喔這個他們到位的時間多長"},{"start":121.195,"end":121.936,"text":"有沒有人離職"},{"start":131.607,"end":159.065,"text":"有啊 好 這就本席想問的因為其實大家都知道嘛這個當然不是純然是退輔會的責任但因為護理師在台灣是有名的血汗這個工作之一啊那這個人員的穩定性這也常常被大家來討論那既然它牽涉這個容價的服務品質所以我也想了解一下現在它提供的待遇等等環境足不足以讓它穩定的長久留任所以現在從一月到四月雖然時間還不是很長但是大概三 我剛好就想問這三個月你留任率是多少"},{"start":160.223,"end":180.296,"text":"多少人留下來 哪些人離開 有沒有這樣的問題跟狀況製度調整他大概多 薪資可以調高四千多塊當然可能有些交通因素或其他的考量會有一些離職的所以現在大概的留任率是多少98以上98以上 所以現在離職的比較還可以歸 可能是個案或個人生涯規劃好 這次我們要長期來做追蹤"},{"start":180.836,"end":192.626,"text":"但我就這邊做一下提醒就是說第一量能要能夠維持第二這些人的待遇我們要盡量給他維持這樣才能維護榮佳的這個品質這是第一個題目那第二個這個現在喔"},{"start":194.143,"end":221.399,"text":"關心完榮嘉就換比較大的榮民醫院因為這台北榮總桃分院啊這剛好就在這個本席的選區啊那本席的選區裡面這個也知道就同樣是護理師的就業環境的問題這護理人力其實十分吃緊護病比現在全市是9.3看起來數字是合理但其實大家也都知道這樣的數字當然有填報等等跟實際上可能會有落差但這不是本席今天要關心的事情我希望的還是改善他們的工作環境這本席了解到啊這個"},{"start":222.981,"end":237.439,"text":"現在台北榮總陶芬院約聘的護理人員或是相關的護理人員他們能不能申請榮院的職工宿舍你們知道這個事嗎榮院是有一定的宿舍給工作的人去使用的"},{"start":238.221,"end":254.001,"text":"報告委員北榮總院的部分不管公職跟契約都可以申請我們的宿舍那分院的部分我不知道他們的量能現在怎麼樣我回去會問一下我們的院長那這個事情如果足夠的量能應該要開放這是合理"},{"start":254.281,"end":271.715,"text":"好 這就是本席今天要提醒的因為就本席的私底下的明察暗訪啦他現在的狀況大概是說比如說護理長啊 或者是醫師他當然優先 這我們要理解工作繁重但我要提醒的是說 實務上護理長也好 或者是醫生等等經濟條件 工作的時間也都相對的長"},{"start":272.595,"end":288.705,"text":"在附近可能都有比較好的環境所以他不見得會去使用這樣子的一個這個這個榮怨的宿舍造成啊這榮怨宿舍有閒置的狀況那我想今天如果不是閒置那還沒話講大家要排一下順序但既然有閒置他應該思考一下這個做"},{"start":289.525,"end":312.613,"text":"充分的利用所以我要幫這些基層的約聘等等護理師請請命吧有很多人出來乍到不見得在附近有地方可以安身有些人因為輪班這體力消耗其實非常非常的大如果就近在這樣的一個宿舍有休息的地方或者是有穩定的居住環境我想這除了薪資待遇之外工作環境的改善應該有助於讓台北榮總桃分院的護理師"},{"start":313.493,"end":341.207,"text":"不管是留任也好 願意加入也好 等等的誘因跟意願是做提升的所以本期花一點點時間跟這位做一下提醒剛剛已經正式承諾 本期非常高興這退伍會非常有效率我們趕快做盤點如果他有餘裕 有空間我們就來安排配套的措施讓我們這個護理師也可以來使用這個容院的宿舍 可以嗎 主委謝謝委員指導 我們回去做點頭OK 好 那個多少時間內可以給個明確的答案因為我們這總要幫基層請請命吧"},{"start":344.744,"end":370.815,"text":"一個月 一個月 OK好 這希望盡快來達成的 這可以提前就提前好再來 這剛剛其他委員會有質詢過啦這個有關於這個退出域官兵的這個就業媒合的部分那現在開了一個專案 也要成立一個平台現在你們四月已經做完了這個專長的對照表嘛我為了媒合要做專長的對照表但你的平台看起來是明年才會上線那剛剛其他委員問你講 我現在在做跨部會整合但我們真的要關心的是 現在這些人700多項"},{"start":372.616,"end":398.456,"text":"職業對照已經做完之後 可能很多人已經在等媒合啦你這八個月 從現在到明年一月的這個空窗期你的實際作為是什麼這不是空窗期 等會兒委員報告一下高委員報告 其實我們現在在個人服務第一線的就業媒合我們都已經會把他在軍中的相關的一個專長會加以考慮 然後會幫他推介那現在更有明確的一個初步的初稿方向出來以後"},{"start":399.116,"end":428.315,"text":"我們已經其實有可以去請我們的融付處的第一線人員就可以做參考但是因為他還沒有完成最後的一個驗證的一個到最後結論所以我們本來就有做這樣的事情現在還是需要等到四月底更完整的一個結果出來以後我們會請個人付出就可以加以運用所以四月底開始你就可以還是可以進行我的意思只是提醒說你不要等到平台成立好才開始做媒合這樣就中間空掉了嘛"},{"start":430.376,"end":440.32,"text":"平台是因為方便大家透過電腦一鍵按下去就可以看到但實際上你在這一段時間還沒有見到我們可以把那個驗證完畢很嚴謹的一個結果出稿可以先給我們融服處去做一個參考運用先做參考運用就可以開始進行後面的媒合作業了嘛對不對所以四月底開始可以做這件事四月底之後 好 謝謝"},{"start":453.786,"end":466.293,"text":"我不知道跟退府會第一次質詢還蠻愉快的因為回答都非常的清楚而且也有明確的時間表我們就希望這可以照章執行來完善各項的政策好不好好 辛苦主委了 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168352","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168352","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7caf50679d452360eff16f9abdda18f348ce3249aa741ed41f0c54870947c465d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"10:25:59 - 10:38:57","影片長度":"00:12:58","會議時間":"2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、公平交易委員會代理主任委員、衛生福利部首長、法務部首長及行政院消費者保護處首長就「中東衝突加劇市場不確定性，致國內包括乙烯、塑膠、化肥、瀝青等石化原物料及物流成本增加，屢傳缺料、囤貨現象等之問題評估、因應策略與現況」進行報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-09","start_time":"2026-04-09T10:25:59+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-09T10:38:57+08:00","duration":778,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-8"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":2.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10.08846875,"end":12.585968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14.99909375,"end":16.230968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16.48409375,"end":17.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":21.64784375,"end":26.035343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23.84159375,"end":23.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.89221875,"end":25.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27.874718750000003,"end":28.245968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":28.887218750000002,"end":56.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":57.220343750000005,"end":60.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":60.494093750000005,"end":64.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":64.56096875,"end":149.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":150.20159375,"end":153.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":153.45846875,"end":178.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":179.41221875000002,"end":180.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":180.62721875,"end":195.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":195.71346875,"end":202.96971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.96971875000003,"end":204.67409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.11284375000002,"end":205.12971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.12971875000002,"end":205.19721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.19721875000002,"end":206.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.02409375000002,"end":206.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.05784375000002,"end":206.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.19284375,"end":213.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.22971875000002,"end":213.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.48284375,"end":220.43534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.03034375000001,"end":220.77284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.89096875,"end":220.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.95846875,"end":222.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.19034375,"end":222.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":222.96659375000002,"end":224.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.55284375000002,"end":238.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":225.66659375,"end":227.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.82909375000003,"end":244.44846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.63409375,"end":254.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":254.97846875000002,"end":285.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.52221875000004,"end":289.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.21346875,"end":302.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":300.84471875,"end":335.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":321.01034375,"end":321.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":324.13221875,"end":324.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":324.77346875,"end":324.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.10096875000005,"end":340.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":335.97846875000005,"end":337.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.83846875,"end":349.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":342.40784375000004,"end":342.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":342.42471875,"end":344.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":347.67284375,"end":350.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.36034375,"end":349.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.71034375000005,"end":351.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":351.25034375,"end":353.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.33034375,"end":356.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.24096875000004,"end":357.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.47284375000004,"end":365.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":365.96534375000005,"end":366.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.03284375000004,"end":367.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":366.42096875000004,"end":370.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.84221875000003,"end":376.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":376.17471875,"end":381.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.76534375,"end":379.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":379.12784375,"end":379.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":380.56221875,"end":380.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.68034375,"end":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謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言人邀請部長那個經濟部長經濟部管部長"},{"start":21.664,"end":25.347,"text":"近期美伊衝突加劇布蘭特的原油一度也衝上了百元大關我看了各部會的報告大家都在談"},{"start":42.622,"end":63.731,"text":"應變機制跟穩定供需所以我本席要在這邊提醒我們部會首長以及相關單位也就是對老百姓來講對民眾來講這些國際政治的名詞他認為是很遙遠但是他每天眼睛張開他必須要面對因為石化原料的大漲"},{"start":64.991,"end":71.833,"text":"導致帶動的一個通膨的一個壓力這是民眾每天必須要面對一個生存的一個挑戰所以因此我看了報告在農業部裡頭我們提出了這個原料大概漲了五成那補助也加碼那經濟部你也說在塑化末端的這些產品PVC等那你說你們可以媒合平台來做調度"},{"start":91.32,"end":108.148,"text":"但是我要問的是這一些的補助有沒有真正協助到我們的農民這一些的平台有沒有真正協助到需要這一些原物料的人因為我們看到這一些物料特別有沒有針對台灣的馬路也就是我們的立青"},{"start":113.191,"end":135.183,"text":"那我們用這些公帑去補助的時候要怎麼樣落實這非常重要所以我首先要跟部長來討論因為這是民生非常重要交通跟建設我們不要讓入坪變成是入窮所以利清跟PPC管是石化工業的一個終端產品那現在價格一下子30%一下60%一直在漲所以相對的在存量跟價格的一個斷層當中"},{"start":141.707,"end":159.91,"text":"昨天部長你說了喔您說在國內的濾清存量大概有4.2萬噸那可以支撐到6月但是部長本期看到的是您說的量本期看到的是價格的問題因為現在很多地方迫切需要的修正農路"},{"start":160.891,"end":178.397,"text":"而且有很多這個補償道路的小型標案尤其開口合約他一開口的價格就是一年度的這個價格是定點在那裡所以在這樣情況之下包商簽的固定單價他現在買不到料即使買了他又要賠錢"},{"start":179.477,"end":204.159,"text":"那這怎麼辦呢那全國有多少地方小型工程因為成本高漲而暴停工所以在這個地方民生的這個工程單位本行認為部長必須要好好的去做清查怎麼樣讓這些可以真正落實到民生所需要的請做說明"},{"start":205.38,"end":214.632,"text":"包委員分成兩個部分一個是量我們量還是要盡量滿足他們給他們充足那另外一個就是這樣量就您說的4.2萬噸嘛你目前統計到六月底嘛對五月底那新的這個到五月底五月底對對"},{"start":222.262,"end":237.669,"text":"完了那現在已經是4月囉對那新的部分那更嚴峻囉台塑他們6月開始進料他們也會再調度進來那量的部分我們希望達到這樣子那價的部分當然是有漲沒有錯啦本來是"},{"start":239.57,"end":251.518,"text":"2萬漲到2萬5所以大概漲了20%左右但是就是說現在因為原物料的部分的確是有這樣的一些反應那我們再看看這個部分我們將來怎麼樣來協助"},{"start":255.049,"end":280.243,"text":"所以這個不是看看怎麼樣協助你現在已經看到問題你必須要去應對因為你現在說的五月份那你現在的量是到五月份但是有現在全國有很多這些工程是跟民生最迫切需要的如果他所產生的會有很多的問題產生所以我具體建議必須要將你看到的這些問題政府有責任要去將這個機制去達到"},{"start":282.465,"end":288.721,"text":"不管是在量或者是在價格方面對 所以我們現在就是哲程這個中油"},{"start":290.307,"end":314.841,"text":"在期限貨去買如果需要的話那台塑化的部分他們進口是這個柏油機的原油進來就可以產生這個濾芯的部分所以這個部分本身也特別提醒也就是在你的量跟價政府必須要協助好 管控好那接下來農業部長在這裡我跟農業部長來討論也就是我們的肥料的問題"},{"start":316.322,"end":339.681,"text":"我們留守現在高達54.3%上一次本席跟你討論我說一定要照顧我們的農民對不對一定要照顧我們的農民你們也做了所以你現在宣布肥料的補貼最高調到每包是上限是435塊最高是不是如此不是我想一個非常大的原則就是我們肥料是凍帳的"},{"start":341.762,"end":356.229,"text":"動帳的部分當然啊 所以你要補貼下來對 當時會根據國際原料的一個價格所以是你補貼嘛 不是台北自己吞嘛對是政府補貼嘛是政府補貼 然後台北也有做部分的一個協助"},{"start":357.281,"end":375.309,"text":"怎麼協助他也吸收部分的部分的吸收的那個價差所以你現在對外公布的是每包最高因為肥料有很多種對你說最高是435是天花板的數字是不是我想他會隨著國際原物料的調服而做一些變動"},{"start":376.229,"end":393.943,"text":"做變動嗎?本期要跟你討論的就這一點因為沒有人有辦法去確定戰爭到底會怎麼樣我們希望不要戰爭但是不是我們可控的在這樣的情況之下因為我們看到說最高調到每包435元本期認為所以現在部長你說的會隨時依據這個世界的人物量的樣態也就是肥料還是一樣動漲"},{"start":405.191,"end":425.728,"text":"對對農民來講就是肥料價格是不變的好那所以本席還要提醒也就肥料的價格如果你我們現在是動漲但是不知道戰爭的情況怎麼樣不知道他樣態怎麼樣我們隨時應對但是我們還是要小心還是要小心喔如果你的補貼經費會不會夠"},{"start":429.258,"end":442.246,"text":"夠不夠 你的基金好不好不過的話 我想我們會跟行政院爭取那行政院也大力的支持針對農民必需的這些生產制裁會給予最大的一個協助所以一個原則 這是我們討論這一題的重點第一個 補助的額度是隨樣態而調整不是在於435塊而吸領的價格第二個 萬一基金不夠的時候還是要以動漲來照顧我們的農民為基準"},{"start":456.369,"end":476.275,"text":"對 我們凍帳是我們的目標因為我們生產如果不夠的時候肥料價格直接是斷排式的暴漲那農民會受不了啊我跟委員報告齁從COVID-19開始原物料上漲以後我們就持續的補貼到現在目前原物料跟當時的110年的機器年還要高所以我們持續的凍帳"},{"start":477.415,"end":490.667,"text":"那相關的經費我剛才說的行政院一直全力的支持這樣的一個政策所以農利國的台灣我們必須要好好的來協助農民這是我們共同的目標那數位排擠的部分因為現在肥料實名制你們有沒有統計現在農民有多少還"},{"start":495.551,"end":499.256,"text":"這個都是早期一開始推的時候 大家的排斥那當第一次登錄以後 以後你就報你的電話號碼或什麼的 至少就可以直接進到系統裡面去了"},{"start":511.092,"end":527.869,"text":"所以一定要好好地協助農民萬一他還沒有辦法上線的時候要好好地去協助在系統裡面現在有37萬戶在裡面幾乎大部分都在裡面一定要好好去協助而且隨時滾動去檢討讓民眾可以真的便利好 您請回接下來本席要這個衛福部"},{"start":536.283,"end":557.415,"text":"因為這一次石化缺料影響到我們醫療的這個產品 比如說生產的容器包材 衣材 塑膠等這個嚴重影響 所以在這種情況之下醫療安全優先這個是一個共同的目標 這個非常重要優先供應醫療的所需那我們200億"},{"start":559.076,"end":582.472,"text":"建保的預備金政府已經編列這個200億的建保基金的安全準備金就是基本用於因應物料波動導致的成本增加所以本席要請教這筆預算你的標準使用的標準為何那麼我們要如何確保在廠商他在申請條價時資料的一個真實性我們要嚴防不當的一個成本墊"},{"start":588.976,"end":589.957,"text":"對 所以部長在這邊做統合的爭執"},{"start":612.31,"end":627.732,"text":"所以我們也非常感謝經濟部協助那現在其實都協助我們有明確有需要有吃緊的這些廠商都做媒合這是前端目前目的就是希望說至少在前端能夠供應無虞這是第一個部分那當然如果這一個中東戰事持續"},{"start":628.433,"end":644.026,"text":"那之後一直都會有這個現象的時候當然在成本上可能會墊高那在健保這一邊其實健保如果要去調整健保的給付價格必須要進入健保的共擬會議我們的要價的共同擬定會議那要價的共同擬定會議這一邊我們的共同擬定會議包含我們"},{"start":644.406,"end":670.875,"text":"的學協會委員 這一邊其實他要帶這些廠商要拿 比方說他現在購買的成本是多少他在他的成本每一個這個藥品或醫材的成本會有什麼樣的變動我們要有公式來計算 所以不能漫天喊價必須要有確的數字在這邊說明也就是我們討論這一題的重點因為我們已經編了預算要好好的來協助但是一定要嚴防不能惡意的哄抬"},{"start":671.235,"end":680.119,"text":"是沒錯 這個是我們必須要好好的去研討是 謝謝委員好 那所以部長 我再請部長跟農業部長兩位部長 經理部長還有工品會 工品會今天我們工品會也在這邊所以本席在這邊針對我們今天的討論我們認為戰爭的代價由天天在基層奔走的我們的農民 通勤族"},{"start":695.605,"end":705.516,"text":"還有呢這個城市的包商就我們剛剛講的例行的這些問題所以我有三點要求也就是請部長在這邊清查受阻的工程因為這個跟民生很相關兩周內提交受缺料影響的地方"},{"start":712.763,"end":731.996,"text":"這個工程的名單那第二個呢就工品會你必須將釐清跟石化管材市場反囤積跟反聯合這個漲價的去做調查這個非常的重要目前我們已經有立案調查我們希望一個月內能夠拿出這個"},{"start":734.617,"end":741.781,"text":"報告出來那最後一個就是在我們農民的這個部分我們要確保補貼要入戶要確保肥料補助款全額的是反映在零售的這個價格不准有任何的盤商從中來抽頭"},{"start":753.526,"end":776.626,"text":"我想以上三點也請各相關單位於時間內提出這個說明跟報告因為我們最重要的也就是希望守護我們的民生而且要穩定物價因為我們知道在戰爭當中我們不是只有看到數字報告當中的數字而是真正要看到百姓上面的笑容才是真正政策的一個落實好 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出席委員17人 已足法定人數 請主席宣布開會我們現在開會我們先介紹到場的委員跟應邀列席人員我們現場一大早就在這邊準備了這個不是磨刀霍霍 這看起來有專業又有準備 我們成招之委員"},{"start":1621.748,"end":1634.914,"text":"來 介紹我們應邀的列席人員今天就我們法務部政務次長黃某信次長歡迎 還有最高檢察署檢察總長被提名人徐錫祥次長OK 好"},{"start":1641.356,"end":1661.175,"text":"本次議程討論的四項排定就審查總統之為最高檢察署檢察總長形態照任期在115年5月7號就要屆滿依照法院組織法第66條第二項的規定提名徐徐祥為最高檢察署檢察總長知情的同意案"},{"start":1663.738,"end":1673.611,"text":"本案是我們立法院第十一屆第五會期第四次會議決定交付內政司法法制內政就兩個委員會來審查還有聯席會議於四月八號"},{"start":1680.218,"end":1702.906,"text":"舉辦公聽會 就昨天已經舉辦公聽會也完成本院各黨團隊被提名人資格及適任性所提出的書面問題 只請總統轉至被提名人經總統府秘書長韓富被提名人提出的相關資料也已經在4月7號檢送各黨團在案我們現在請被提名人徐徐翔先生報告時間5分鐘"},{"start":1711.929,"end":1714.025,"text":"主席 各位委員 女士 先生"},{"start":1715.423,"end":1744.375,"text":"桂園會今天就總統知請大院同意最高檢察署檢察總長被提名人一案進行審查那個人奉邀前來列席並被質詢被感榮幸這一次能夠被總統提名為檢察總長既是無上的榮幸同時也感到責任重大國人對於檢察體系上有許多批評而且要求改革的聲音那檢察體系內部也面臨著諸多的挑戰"},{"start":1745.169,"end":1769.324,"text":"這些衝擊都在考驗著領導者的智慧跟決心如有幸獲得大院同意 未來擔任此一新職一定孜孜固固 建籍履籍 絕不辜負人民因應的期盼民眾對於檢察總長的期待不僅僅是對一個職位的要求而更是對於國家司法正義最後一道防線的寄託"},{"start":1770.1,"end":1784.671,"text":"那作為指導監督各級檢察官的檢察總長應保持政治的中立性具備深厚的法治素養以及捍衛人權的無畏勇氣那一個好的檢察官除了要有豐富的辦案經驗外精準科學辦案"},{"start":1787.285,"end":1812.366,"text":"處事的客觀公正 不偏不倚本則公義及悲天憫人的信念嚴守程序正義 守護人權 實不愧職守為守護檢察官的辦案空間個人日後將秉持以下的工作理念及堅守的原則推動各項檢察工作第一 維護檢察官的獨立性跟客觀中立檢察中長為檢察體系的領導者必須嚴守客觀中立"},{"start":1816.169,"end":1839.148,"text":"不為利誘 也不為任何干涉 全力捍衛檢察官執行植物獨立抄欄的立場檢察總長不接受關說 也不關說案件讓檢察官完全發揮打擊犯罪的量能 而無後顧之憂第二 遵守法律程序 確保人權保障在無罪推定原則下 嚴格要求檢察官遵守正當的法律程序"},{"start":1839.628,"end":1853.299,"text":"及偵查不公開原則只有嚴守程序正義才能不越陷侵害人權也才能獲得人民的信賴跟尊重當然也要嚴守偵查不公開原則以避免媒體或網路不當的報導倘若未審先判會侵害當事人的隱私跟"},{"start":1859.984,"end":1884.537,"text":"被告獲得公平審判的權利那第三 法律兼容不背離人民的感情檢察官是國家法律的守護者擔負的社會安定跟國家安全的責任那嚴正執法本是職責所在維救犯罪的動機、目的、手段、社會危害性也必須要強加斟酌才能夠做出妥適的判斷"},{"start":1885.197,"end":1906.72,"text":"那不會背離人民的感情使人民對司法喪失信心而對於檢察官人文思維及同理心的保持將透過訓練及各級首長主管的潛移默化予以強化關於未來的工作目標個人自詡要做到理想的"},{"start":1907.3,"end":1929.273,"text":"檢察總長的幾項核心思維跟未來工作的目標說明如下一 堅守政治中立 帶領檢察官做捍衛司法的長程第二 引領司法朝向公正的穩定性發展 贏得人民的信賴第三 優化與升級檢察體制 因應新時代挑戰第四"},{"start":1929.873,"end":1956.985,"text":"捍衛人權跟平反冤錯第五保護被害人跟弱勢者的權益第六妥適運用檢查議題發揮團隊辦案的效能至於未來偵查業務的重點部分我也將設定幾個未來偵查業務的重點加強督導各級檢查機關與檢察官第一整合查查會選量能確保選舉公平公正第二"},{"start":1958.135,"end":1977.685,"text":"經濟貪圖案件的偵辦第三提升國家安全案件偵辦效能第四積極打擊妨礙綠能弊案第五有效的追溯侵害營業秘密犯罪第六持續追擊電信詐欺犯罪強化罪章返還第八公共責任跟透明度"},{"start":1979.622,"end":1992.94,"text":"最後結語檢察總長因是具備剛正不阿的法治脊樑與悲天憫人的正義使者讓人民相信司法不再是威權的武器而是公理的最後堡壘這就是對檢察總長"},{"start":1996.753,"end":2020.028,"text":"最輝煌的勳章正如德國二戰很著名的黑身幫檢察總長Friedrich Bauer所說的我想成為一個真正服務於法律正義人性和平的法律人而不是只說些空話如果有機會擔任檢察總長我會全心全力追求法律正義關照人性跟和平的精神"},{"start":2021.048,"end":2048.985,"text":"腳踏實地帶領檢查體系 不負國家與人民的託付詳細的內容請參照我們的口頭報告內容 謝謝好 謝謝 被提名人被提名人報告完畢 相關書面內容列入公報我們現在來進行詢答因為今天是聯席會 發言的人數會比較多一共有"},{"start":2050.326,"end":2068.014,"text":"快30位了 27位 伊利本聯席會委員詢答時間為6分鐘 非聯席會委員詢答時間為3分鐘那我均不再延長了 上午10點30分截止發言登記我們現在請登記第一位吳宗憲委員來做發言謝謝主席 我們請那個被提名人請被提名人"},{"start":2082.93,"end":2112.129,"text":"好 徐貝提名人您好我想這個我們自己我們你我都是從基層檢察官出來的所以我們很清楚一個檢察首長我們要的其實是一個敢守誠意正義敢扛政治責任還有替基層扛住整個制度底線的這個檢察首長那我先請教一個問題啦就今年的3月26號總統太院長他說任何質疑任何質疑執政黨可以操控司法人沒有資格成為執政黨"},{"start":2113.871,"end":2130.383,"text":"但是賴總統去年他在民進黨中常會他又說大家都可以在個案審理中檢視司法審理的規範那一個說人民可以檢視 一個又說沒有資格我想請教您 人民到底可不可以質疑司法有沒有受到政治影響我想委員你也當過檢察官 委員就直接回答人民可不可以質疑"},{"start":2141.55,"end":2166.059,"text":"人民要相信司法我們的所有的檢察官或者是法官我們依法來做偵查審判我們心裡有一把刺人民可不可以質疑你還是沒有回答這個問題人民要做怎樣的想法我沒有辦法去約束我也沒辦法被評斷說他是對還是錯但是我想思想是自由的所以他要怎麼想我們不能用任何規範去限制他好那不然這樣好了那我換個問題問啦"},{"start":2167.62,"end":2190.445,"text":"您認為行政院院長他說質疑任何質疑執政黨可以操控司法人都沒有資格成為執政黨請問您認同這句話嗎這句話應該有它深層的一點含義就是說如果一個執政黨是認為司法是不公的那他就不能成為執政黨我想這樣的解讀應該是比較精確的不是欸不是欸應該是因為"},{"start":2193.105,"end":2220.739,"text":"民進黨在野的時候也經常質疑司法那難道他就不適合成為執政黨嗎我認為這是一個因為您剛剛的報告其實一直有講到司法獨立不受政治影響嘛您的書面報告也有但在這第一個問題裡面你就沒有給我答案了那我怎麼能夠相信說你將來在擔任檢察總長的時候你有那個勇氣感跟現在執政黨對抗不是 這不是對抗這是堅持"},{"start":2222.26,"end":2233.015,"text":"對抗跟堅持是不一樣的不是啦 這不是文字遊戲啦沒有文字遊戲對抗跟堅持今天如果執政黨他惡搞那他要政治力介入司法的時候你有沒有勇氣跟他對抗嘛"},{"start":2233.897,"end":2253.759,"text":"身為一個檢察官就好不要到總長任何一個非法的干涉我們一定要有自己就有勇敢的去捍衛這樣繞來繞去我覺得還是沒有高拖你任務官的包袱因為我知道您是正次也做過這個國安局的副局長"},{"start":2254.56,"end":2282.382,"text":"那當然這就是外界給您的質疑啦那我今天第一個問題其實很簡單就是說當院長說出這個我們認為不妥的話為什麼司法不能夠質疑那只要有人質疑的話那就不適合擔任執政黨那這個話其實不對啊因為民進黨在野的時候常在質疑甚至他的黨綱裡面的行動綱領也有要求要司法獨立那不是也一種質疑嗎那難道就不適合嗎我剛才特別強調就是說思想是沒有辦法限制的"},{"start":2282.822,"end":2308.178,"text":"我想這個要質疑沒有人有辦法限制好那你贊不贊成卓榮泰院長的這一句話您贊不贊成委員單單的一句話叫我是贊不贊成我只能說不能說司法不公好那我知道我們不可以質疑司法不公嘛那您這樣講我也無話可說不是跟你講一件事啦現在司法對人民對司法信任度"},{"start":2309.343,"end":2330.937,"text":"不高 那是我們大家都要檢討的事情如果都認為說司法我們檢察官做 你人民不可以質疑或執政在野黨也不可以質疑 那就不對啦任何東西應該都可以質疑吧應該是說 增審的一些作為我們可以來檢討 它妥不妥適但是整體來講 我想司法人員委員你也當過司法人員我們心中的那一把指"},{"start":2331.457,"end":2344.813,"text":"是需要被肯定我還是講的是人民對不然這樣好了因為時間的關係我直接給你跳到一個問題來我問一下這次北檢清潔監察院的那個案子當然我先講一個北檢清潔監察院的那個用公務車那個案子我覺得裡面問題非常的多"},{"start":2351.821,"end":2369.043,"text":"同時間那段時間曾經有個清潔隊員他曾經送一個老婦人一個幾十塊的電鍋然後他被起訴是貪污罪條例第六條那五年以上的重罪那我今天的問題是在於說北檢的檢察官牽結的理由是說這個油錢他事後有付了"},{"start":2369.483,"end":2388.588,"text":"那請問一下那車輛的消耗或者是司機的油煎產業雇佣這個都不用管嗎那我去搭計程車坐了10公里可不可以說我就付你一公升油錢就好那其他費用我都不出好那這個只是我就事實面的論述但是我也要請教你一個問題啦我們這個是符合牽結的理由嗎"},{"start":2389.668,"end":2410.11,"text":"我們簽結有簽結的要件耶 這可以直接簽結嗎我們那個高檢署還有各地檢署辦理他這案件注意事項第三點裡面啊 得報請簽結的理由只有這些啊 這六點啊那請問一下監察院那個案子人事實地物都是明確而且濫用公務車這個事實也明確憑什麼簽結"},{"start":2414.194,"end":2442.531,"text":"我以前接過很多案子亂告我以前辦速探也接過很多亂告的案子但那個一眼就知道這胡扯嘛什麼什麼我接過某某人把他家的電梯裡面塗滿什麼排泄物然後讓他沒辦法搭電梯下去這個東西一看就知道有問題但是這一次的監察院的這個簽結我覺得莫名其妙來請問一下被提名的你有什麼看法完全不符合定型注意事項裡面的各項規定而且人事實地物都是明確的"},{"start":2444.156,"end":2466.609,"text":"請問你有什麼看法這個案子的話應該是沒有人告訴告發應該是明確定的不是我問東寧又答西人我說他不符合陰性注意事項的簽結規定因為人事實地物每一個都清楚這件事情給我一個感觸就是說原來只要大官犯案"},{"start":2467.449,"end":2490.698,"text":"找盡理由幫他牽結小小的清潔隊員的一個小事三十幾塊的東西用貪污之類條例來處理如果事實面我們不論述我們尊重檢察官的認定的話但至少程序面他不符合牽結的規定啊牽結要點第三點的六款請問他符合哪一款好 請問您對這個有什麼看法"},{"start":2493.86,"end":2520.538,"text":"我們兩個當過檢察官都知道說其實他有一個地方是比較可以有一點權宜有時候我們會選擇用簽結有時候我們會做一個不起訴處分書我個人認為如果能夠有一個不起訴處分書會比較好這對於被調查的人也給他一個確定的結果我個人感覺這樣是比較好的所以至少在本案的時候"},{"start":2521.658,"end":2537.965,"text":"是不是其實您也是比較支持說假官應該用不起訴處分的方式來處理可以檢討這個可能性因為是這樣子對被調查的人也比較公平那我這邊也跟那個被提名人報告這件事情我個人完全不認同"},{"start":2539.085,"end":2568.325,"text":"北檢的這個論述這個用牽結的方式北檢怎麼認定這是事實的認定我們基本上都予以尊重你說他有付油錢其他的耗損他都不當一回事這個檢察官這麼認定這麼奇怪我們就算了這是事實面我尊重他但是程序面他就不符合印行注意事項的牽結規定而且在人事實地物都明確的情況下還敢用牽結這種我以前我當蘇貪檢察官當11年我不敢這麼做在這邊跟您報告"},{"start":2569.846,"end":2583.834,"text":"好 謝謝吳宗憲委員接下來我們請最有戰力充滿準備的陳昭之委員來做詢問"},{"start":2587.979,"end":2590.381,"text":"請問我們台灣民眾黨團提出的被提名人的問卷調查表請問是否都是您親自回答上面的問題"},{"start":2605.194,"end":2621.897,"text":"都是您親自回答那問卷上有一題是面對權貴屢屢透過高官施壓檢查系統檢查體系應該如何配合立法院的修法以避免司法公正遭政治力不當的介入請問您還記得您開頭是怎麼回答嗎是我記得"},{"start":2623.087,"end":2640.349,"text":"您在開頭說這個資料上有在過去會看到的司法關說或上級施壓已經看不太到了那我想先請教這個被提名人您所謂的上級施壓具體內容是什麼是怎麼樣的施壓法"},{"start":2644.513,"end":2663.72,"text":"好啦我講我個人的實際案例啦我想以前那很早很早真的很早以前至少二十幾年前的麻煩您就是什麼樣的施壓法可能也不會非常明確的告訴你你要怎麼做而是會暗示你說這個案子呢是不是再多聽聽被告的說法"},{"start":2664.7,"end":2669.221,"text":"類似像這樣子的但是現在幾乎沒有發生過這種事情而且大院通過的刑罰172條之三已經有所謂的不當關說罪雖然您說現在已經不太看到這樣的上級施壓但是這個說法我還是大大"},{"start":2685.486,"end":2708.533,"text":"打一個很大的問號您同時也認為在制度上還是仍要有一套機制避免司法到政治力不當介入這個我給予肯定但是無論是社會各界或檢察官的內部其實都認為政治力的幽魂是持續在檢查體系中擺盪的請問被提名人檢察官內部的類似的聲音你曾經知悉或聽聞過嗎你有感受到嗎"},{"start":2711.114,"end":2720.86,"text":"最近沒有聽過沒有真的都沒有嗎是沒有為什麼我會說政治力的幽魂是持續在檢查體系當中擺盪呢我先請教貝提敏一個問題檢察官的人事升遷日常考評職涯發展由誰控制由誰決定"},{"start":2728.703,"end":2741.092,"text":"我們現在的人是我們有一個檢審會委員應該知道我們的檢審會的組成是民選的委員多於我們官方指定的委員那依照這個檢察官職務評定辦法檢察官的日常考評是掌握在檢察長的手上那檢察長是誰派的那部長"},{"start":2752.345,"end":2769.321,"text":"檢審會通過 也是官派嘛 不不不委員我這個要補充一下檢審委員 我們民選的檢審委員提出的名單 那個名單已經框住了所以說今天這個不是單純部長一個任命 而是在"},{"start":2770.061,"end":2780.306,"text":"而是在提名的因為我的時間有限今天這個我們的召委特別嚴格您真是認為沒有人可以去控制檢審會嗎?檢審會有17個成員都是檢察官組成這個OK法務部長派4位那檢察總長是當然委員如果您當選你還可以另外再派3位就是說法務部長加上檢察總長方的人大概就有8位那剩下的9位雖然好像是全體的檢察官票選"},{"start":2797.453,"end":2816.987,"text":"那似乎可以制衡官派的人事意見事實上的實踐不是這麼一回事我以主任檢察官的遴選為例地檢署可以提出排名單法務部長還可以自己放入想要的人選一起交由檢審會依照法務部檢察官人士審議委員會的審議規則來審議這個部份部長都沒有放進去"},{"start":2823.173,"end":2839.073,"text":"檢審會會從名單提出一份當年的職缺1.5倍的主任檢察官的人選交給法務部長圈選整個程序當中檢審會的組成圈選的決定法務部長是一個非常重要非常關鍵其實他就是決定者 對嗎"},{"start":2840.374,"end":2865.437,"text":"可是決定的範圍也只在檢審委員提出來的名單裡面我知道我知道法務部長是誰派的行政院派行政院長派的行政院長是誰派的總統派的也就是說掌握行政權的執政黨透過行政權掌握檢察官的人士是足以控制檢察官成為政治辦案的工具喔如果你想要把"},{"start":2866.538,"end":2895.485,"text":"檢察官把政治力的幽魂從檢察體系驅除驅離的話就必須要一個完全獨立的檢察官人事審議制度好 請問這個被提名人你知道美國的州檢察官是怎麼出現的嗎是怎麼產生的嗎 您知道嗎選舉 選舉您知道嗎好 這是人民選舉的人民選舉的 任期兩年到八年不等好 我再請教被提名人您認為檢察體系當中是否存在揣摩上意的檢察官 請回答"},{"start":2900.071,"end":2905.715,"text":"有沒有存在這樣的人 揣摩上億的檢察官有或沒有是我不清楚"},{"start":2906.55,"end":2919.462,"text":"您不清楚當檢察官的人事考的升遷都掌握在行政權的長官這邊必然是存在揣摩上意的檢察官這是人性我覺得揣摩上意的檢察官就不配當檢察官地檢署檢人性什麼叫人性檢察官要地檢署檢察官要辦一堆案子每個月要新收偵查案大概超過百件但身上主任檢察官"},{"start":2931.052,"end":2943.803,"text":"或當上這個高檢署的檢察官 案件量會大減那麼檢察官會不會想要往上爬當然會啊但是 當制度沒有辦法克服人性就是為了讓 但是你又會讓長官看到讓長官滿意 揣摩上意的檢安就自然 就油然產生啊同樣的 上級的質押也就會存在"},{"start":2952.85,"end":2960.774,"text":"只是說上級的施壓可能不是單純的你剛剛提到的施以壓力而是再加上升遷的利誘高檢署陳孔達主任檢察官在2023年曾公開發文我愛凱薩我更愛羅馬堅持捍衛司法獨立的核心價值他批評當時的法務部對全台檢查首長大調動仇庸心腹打壓異己"},{"start":2977.501,"end":3000.79,"text":"您在回答給我們黨團的問卷當中有說檢查人事調動是否具備公信力應該由社會大眾還有檢查同仁來共同來評價你也說人事遷調不應該也不能成為酬庸但我必須要說社會大眾身為檢察官以及身為檢察官的陳宏達主任檢察官都已經給出這樣的評價了就是酬庸心腹請問被提名人您身為檢察這個檢審會的當然委員你還可以指派三名委員"},{"start":3005.712,"end":3010.196,"text":"您會做出如何跟現任的檢察總長這個刑態遭總長不一樣的處理方式還是你是行規徐隨呢你如何讓人事這個簽調不成為酬庸呢你有什麼想法"},{"start":3017.984,"end":3045.509,"text":"我們會嚴格審查每一個入選的候選人如果是有像委員所講的這些我們一定把它剔除掉當您的長官現任檢察總統行太招可以讓辦柯文哲案有功的即便是違法實質的江振裕容身二審檢察官林靜妍檢察官不證問訊的事實容身主任檢察官嚴仲慶身主任檢察官唐仲慶身主任檢察官請問"},{"start":3046.809,"end":3063.401,"text":"你如何評價這樣的升官發達請你評論我想我跟你有不同的看法我們這些檢察官一直以來長期以來超過十幾年以來都是非常認真守法非常認真優秀的檢察官不會因為不是因為一個個案他就生了什麼東西"},{"start":3064.721,"end":3080.193,"text":"你認為他們表現非常優秀有嚴守你剛剛的口頭報告裡面的完美境界而且這一個案子到底檢察官是不是優秀正直社會自然有公辦你應該看過任何民調為什麼台灣人民對司法的信任度民調永遠只有30到40分"},{"start":3082.314,"end":3097.602,"text":"他是死當欸離及格非常遙遠欸檢察官辦案有50%就是絕對會對我們有不好的印象因為他可能是被告可能是不起訴署份的告訴人他本來就有一半的人他不贊同我們所以用民調來評價檢察官這是不公平的但是我還是要講一句話"},{"start":3101.704,"end":3115.857,"text":"如果人民對司法的信心信任度是離及格非常遙遠而且是死蕩的話台灣今天要談民主是非常奢侈的台灣大概沒有資格去談這個司法這也是我們努力的目標"},{"start":3118.025,"end":3132.957,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝主席好 謝謝陳昭之委員你講一下 我都不敢打斷你看說對你多好得那你看這個被提名人也不卑不亢啊不錯啦 把他捧上來接下來是我們審發會委員來做選擇"},{"start":3147.114,"end":3172.54,"text":"主席我們先請這個被提名人請被提名人委員好我們這個 孫檢察官好了這個我想我首先在這邊表達我們像剛才這樣子在質詢裡面把說審理個案審理柯文哲案的這個檢察官的聲簽拿出來點名"},{"start":3174.065,"end":3185.932,"text":"點名然後抹黑說他是因為這個偵辦柯文哲案這種針對個案然後把檢察官拿出來點名然後再批評他的聲簽我認為這種行為齁就跟那個在"},{"start":3187.264,"end":3209.266,"text":"台中地院在走廊去打辯護律師的巴掌是一樣的行為啊你這個案檢察官你就扮演這個角色然後你檢察官因為他辦了你柯文哲案你出來在庭外你就打他巴掌用在立法院的質詢台上被打人家巴掌這我個人認為是非常不妥當在這裡我是表達非常非常的遺憾這是第一點"},{"start":3211.068,"end":3222.165,"text":"接下來這個我要請問我們被提名人這個昨天我們這個本委員會有召開一個有關這個這個我們這一次的這個檢查總長的這個人事案的一個公聽會"},{"start":3223.766,"end":3243.124,"text":"那這個我昨天也非常詳細的從頭到尾,詳細的聽了所有我們這出席的七位學者跟這個食物界人士他們昨天的這個發言我看這昨天大多數都是針對這個制度面角色跟這個一些專業的這個相關的議題來討論檢察總長他在這些議題裡面扮演的角色"},{"start":3250.859,"end":3268.25,"text":"但是其中有一位 大部分都對我們被提名人是相當肯定的大概只有兩位有提出對於我們今天被提名人的一些質疑其中有一位就是我們的"},{"start":3270.671,"end":3299.241,"text":"這個高檢署的主任檢察官齁這個有針對你提出了蠻具體的幾個質疑而且基本上我看他的質疑是認為說你的這個事任性有問題啦齁那這部分我首先我先就程序上面來請教一下我們主席啦齁主席這個我們昨天的這個公聽會的這個與會代表是是怎麼邀請的是請這個還是請市長說明一下所以我們這個最我們昨天這個高檢署的主任檢察官是代表我們法務部出席的嗎"},{"start":3300.895,"end":3314.568,"text":"這個我說明一下 這個跟省委報告 這個是各黨團來推薦什麼 各黨團是各黨團推薦 對 各黨團推薦所以昨天那個不是法務部的代表那昨天那個是那個是"},{"start":3317.456,"end":3343.629,"text":"陳宏達主任檢察官陳宏達主任檢察官非常優秀啦我想說法務部派出的代表這個我等一下查完再詳細正確的資料再跟陳委員做報告那這個我就想說怎麼法務部派出的代表結果對我們這個跟陳委員報告那個陳宏達主任檢察官是中國國民黨推薦的是國民黨推薦的我想說是法務部推薦的"},{"start":3345.424,"end":3370.759,"text":"的代表在對我們這個人選有這麼大的質疑那就是大問題了如果是國民黨推薦的代表那我們就大概可以理解雖然說我們這個從他這個主任檢察官我個人也是非常尊敬他的操作而且他甚至應該是這一次也是檢察總長的人選之一所以我個人是對他個人沒有完全沒有任何批評我只是要理解說這昨天的公聽會的到底是怎麼樣產生的這些人選是國民黨推薦"},{"start":3373.614,"end":3394.262,"text":"但是我們就是針對是誰提出的不重要了但是昨天我們陳主任檢察官他提出了四個大的質疑我覺得這部分因為昨天會後好像有記者去採訪我們我們這個徐主任檢察官好像有去採訪你了但是你昨天你說你不回應因為你這回應今天又要來回應好像你一句我一句你的說法變成"},{"start":3395.743,"end":3413.624,"text":"你一句我一句所以今天我想這個就是應該要正式讓你回應的有關於我們昨天在公聽會裡面這個主任檢察官所提出的我幫他整理了一下大概就是四個質疑第一個就是說你在行政履歷以外"},{"start":3415.405,"end":3437.582,"text":"認為你是不是有這個可以被檢驗的辦案貢獻是足以支撐這個檢查總長職務的核心戰機他提到核心戰機這個這部分這是第一個問題第二個問題是你擔任過政務次長這剛好吳宗憲委員有提說你政務次長跟這個的背景跟這個檢查高位的這個分際這兩個職務是不是有衝突"},{"start":3441.525,"end":3467.833,"text":"第三個是你承認國安副局長的歷練到底是加分還是減分第四個問題是說你的這個支持基礎不足因為這次檢察官協會跟建青減改這些專業團體這次沒有投票沒有投票所以他認為你這個支持基礎不足是不是這個一點點我覺得你今天這個機會時間很短我希望你針對這個部分一個一個回答"},{"start":3468.593,"end":3480.745,"text":"第一個所以你這個有沒有可供檢驗的核心戰績這部分請說明一下好那我先跟委員報告一下當時黨團提出來的問題是你擔任檢察官辦過哪些"},{"start":3486.471,"end":3511.919,"text":"重大的案件列出10點那我就很直覺的反應我從82年開始去算我就挑了10件各位委員請我去看這些案子因為我有篇幅的問題我沒有很詳細的寫其實這在當時82年83年84年已經是算是在我們那裡算是蠻重大的案子包括酒盡的超代案包括很多大安溪整個大安溪的砂石盜採案"},{"start":3512.859,"end":3528.256,"text":"那些案子都非常非常的大所以當然如果跟北檢的規模比較或許人家會認為我們不夠可是如果說今天要把我擔任檢察長主任檢察官的領導指揮的案子也算進來的話我擔任過新北的檢察長我們辦過的軍備局的這個張將軍"},{"start":3534.322,"end":3548.904,"text":"這一個跟廠商中共所取的四千多萬的一個匯款案那我在彰化的時候是最有名的就是綠能的案子我們辦過普風的這個食品物理案"},{"start":3549.665,"end":3567.547,"text":"同開的一個工業污泥案我們還要求補豐跟相關的廠商必須把農地恢復原狀這為國家也省了十幾億還有竹東我們還辦了一個竹東六天辦了一千個人次的一個大型的會選案"},{"start":3568.608,"end":3596.799,"text":"這些在在都考驗了我們的一個領導的能力所以這些都是矚目暗刺只是說你沒有把它寫在自傳裡面沒有沒有我只是寫我當小檢察官時候的所以陳主任陳主任我當然非常的敬重他是拿現在這個把檢察長的這一塊也算領導同意的話那當然就會不一樣那我寫的是我個人偵辦案件個人主政的案子這是第一個問題大概就這樣回答"},{"start":3597.419,"end":3604.891,"text":"他特別提到說你沒有擔任過台北地檢署跟二審檢查機關這個最能夠展現檢查首長的核心戰場"},{"start":3613.301,"end":3629.073,"text":"他說你沒有站過核心戰場我當過新北的檢察長我的規模不會低於台北地檢署所以我當時來的時候一年期間剛好是疫情最嚴重的時候這個我認為這個就有點主觀了啦所以當然我們型態招檢察長他擔任過這兩個職務台北地檢署"},{"start":3636.679,"end":3651.649,"text":"二層這個檢查機關的職務但是他前一任江惠民他也沒有擔任過他也沒有擔任過這個所謂核心戰場他也沒有擔任過所以我認為說這個質疑就有點主觀了接下來他說政務次長跟這個最高檢的分際"},{"start":3653.03,"end":3678.619,"text":"這根本以我的理解我們現任的這個型態招檢察長好像也擔任過政務次長他是不是有擔任過政務次長所以我想這個就會變成有點針對個人了啦我是覺得說這過去你不是說第一個說當次長再來當檢察長你是第一個那大家當然會質疑你這個問題但是事實上你並過去這樣子的例子包括現任的檢察長也都是擔任過政務次長所以我是覺得說這個應該不是問題啦"},{"start":3681.44,"end":3709.065,"text":"那這個有關這個你擔任國安局副局長這個部分這部分就好像我這個要幫國安局講一些話國安局從1955年就成立他是在等於是保護國家的安全以及我們元首的安全這是沒有顏色的任何人執政他就會要保護他要保護這個國家安全所以他是完全是在犧牲奉獻的無名英雄"},{"start":3709.565,"end":3736.287,"text":"不只這樣子啦事實上以我所知啊昨天公聽會大家所關注的這個大概八大議題裡面有關詐欺案件其實詐欺案件現在已經是列為國安單位的重要的業務之一了所以你曾經在國安單位對於現在大家重視的這個詐欺案件它的辦理它當然也有一個重要的這個它當然是一個重要的加分啊包括現在我們大家"},{"start":3737.408,"end":3755.041,"text":"眾所矚目不分黨派許許多多的這個對岸的滲透的這些國家安全案件的司法審理這個你擔任國安局這個當然是加分而且我個人認為甚至是我們現在在偵辦案件也必須跟他們能夠協調那最後一個質疑很抱歉時間超過但我最後一個質疑我覺得你也還是要說明一下"},{"start":3757.583,"end":3767.841,"text":"他說有關檢察官協會漸進減改專業團體的支持基礎不足我所知道的他們過去都有辦理投票這次沒有辦理 為什麼"},{"start":3769.245,"end":3795.666,"text":"這個是因為這個我不能去有啦我幫你說啦因為這是他們決定的他們有發表理由啦他們理由是認為齁這個目前的這個制度應該要改革啦他們認為說在制度改革之前齁他們再繼續進行這樣的票選是沒有意義的所以他不是針對他完全沒有針對任何的人選等等的問題啦齁他們這次之所以沒有進行票選是因為他們認為這個制度必須要改革所以他們這次沒有進行票選"},{"start":3796.306,"end":3813.767,"text":"所以我個人認為說這也不應該成為理由不過這個零零總總在媒體上面呈現出來聽起來好像雜音就變得很多了好像說有這個理由有那個理由但是其實我們今天這樣子經過透過今天這樣子整理其實他大概就是質疑的人大概就質疑了就這幾點"},{"start":3814.668,"end":3833.529,"text":"而這幾點有很多也不是你個人是過去歷任檢察長他本來更重要的我們檢察總長的這個職務在我們目前的法令上面其實他的角色職權是相當隱晦的其實他的在法制上面的這個規定其實很少甚至你連檢察總長"},{"start":3835.911,"end":3846.572,"text":"你要做什麼樣的職務什麼樣職權都沒有我們目前只有憲法就只有這個司法人員人事條例裡面有第16條有規定的最高檢查總署"},{"start":3848.305,"end":3866.894,"text":"對那個司法人員人事條例16條再來就是法院組織法法官法也有法官法指揮監督他對於對於這個我們目前檢查總長他的職權職務要求其實我們目前的法令的規定是很隱晦的但是簡單講大家其實從昨天的公聽會我們聽起來大概"},{"start":3868.054,"end":3879.08,"text":"對檢察總長期許都差不多但是最重要的是說面對像這樣子很多的也不是很多面對這些質疑我覺得你一點一點都必須要說明清楚有很多我個人認為其實"},{"start":3881.591,"end":3905.162,"text":"應該不是你個人的問題這應該是歷任這個目前這個整個制度檢查狀況制度設計上面就要不然你在法令上面就排除說當擔任過次長的不能當這個主任檢察官如果沒有你目前在我看你是我不敢像那個像其實法界也學術界有人說你是五星級的人選那我不敢在這裡說說你是五星級人選但是我認為你是"},{"start":3906.263,"end":3911.765,"text":"以這個扶持資格條件來看,我認為是相當符合資格的人選謝謝委員,謝謝好,謝謝省發會委員接下來請張志倫委員來做發言"},{"start":3935.922,"end":3961.474,"text":"好 謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員 大家好有請徐錫祥 主任檢察官提名人好 請配提名人最高組檢察官提名人委員早提名人早那今天是司法跟內政委員會聯席來針對提名人您來去做一個請教是 哪裡"},{"start":3962.975,"end":3983.62,"text":"那我想說今天這個檢查總長的位置非常的重要其實大家都希望未來您有機會擔任檢查總長的以後一定要保持獨立性那可是今天本席還是要在這邊來請教您一些問題那也希望說您有機會來去做說明"},{"start":3984.46,"end":4009.422,"text":"那因為檢察總長他是管理全國檢查體系非常重要的一個位置那其實也是要保持非常大的獨立性不能被政治所凌駕跟綁架那您過去的經歷其實是長期在檢查體系那不過剛剛很多委員跟福田公聽會也特別提到您過去擔任過法務部次長國安局的副局長"},{"start":4010.143,"end":4027.661,"text":"那這個當然對於一般很多民眾會認為這是高度政治性的職務那當然在昨天的這個公聽會那也要特別我們有一位這個台高檢的主任檢察官陳鴻達也在公聽會指出"},{"start":4030.843,"end":4047.587,"text":"這個認為您的核心定念不足啊那擔任政務官有濃厚的政治性是不是可以把擔任我們現在的職位的未來的職位的時候有沒有辦法斬斷這個過去的政黨跟人脈關係啊那只對法律跟證據負責請回答"},{"start":4050.428,"end":4077.655,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝委員垂詢我想我想一個人是不是會被政治控制進而影響到整個檢查系統的偵辦的態度絕對不是說你當過什麼官而在於你的心態你今天如果說你的心態是正常你維護的我們檢察官的獨立的獨立性跟中立性的話不管你是什麼職務你自然就會畫一條線這條線就是不能跨過的紅線那我我擔任"},{"start":4078.476,"end":4096.257,"text":"那個國安局副局長以及政務次長委員如果有興趣可以去檢視我所有做過的事情沒有一項是跟政治是有關係的我都是為了國家安全以及政務的話法務部的政務推動包括刑法修正打砸司法以及我們的我們的我們的一個"},{"start":4097.178,"end":4114.526,"text":"轉弦 轉弦會議還有我們的評鑑 洗房辦的評鑑以及廉政署這邊的透明組織的評鑑哪一項不是跟我們人民的權利息息相關沒有一項是所謂的政治性我想這個都可以去檢視我走過的任何一個足跡"},{"start":4115.266,"end":4133.171,"text":"所以我覺得不是你當過什麼職務而是你的所作所為是不是符合我們國家的利益那國安局這個就是保護我們國家的安全防止滲透 防止別人對我們的不法以及特警的部門還要維護首長的安全這個沒有一項是政治的"},{"start":4134.111,"end":4162.571,"text":"次長剛才我也已經講得很清楚所以可以去檢視我做過的事情而不是單就這個職位就去評斷說他是政治性我想這是對職位不公平對我也是不公平的好 謝謝您的回應那當然他有特別昨天的這個公聽會他也說這個您沒有擔任過台北地檢署的檢察長跟二審的檢察長那相較過去三任檢察總長的歷練仍然不足那您有什麼回應嗎好"},{"start":4163.712,"end":4176.304,"text":"那我想根據司法人員人事條例第16條的規定裡面所列的我是符合第三款的規定那這個是無庸置疑那裡面有提到一個還要具備領導的才能"},{"start":4177.83,"end":4204.865,"text":"那我雖然沒有當過北檢檢察長這也不是我刻意或怎樣而是我的檢察官的生涯裡面長官任賦予我們的任務我們是一步一步的走誰也不能安排下一步那我當過新北的檢察長我去的時候剛好就是疫情最嚴重的時候一年來我率領大家透過這個疫情我還是能夠偵辦刑事案件很有名的雙核的雙核醫院的殺富士案也是我"},{"start":4205.385,"end":4233.975,"text":"我費盡了很多心思然後去協調很多單位才把這個案子給辦好還有我們辦的那個國備局的這個收取匯款案以及我之前在彰化的綠能案件有很多很多的案子是因為當時題目設定是我當檢察官的時候辦的案子而不是我領導指揮的案子我參與的這些案子我也可以把它寫進去有人說我比較老實啦就寫那個以前那個最年輕的時候辦的案子"},{"start":4234.395,"end":4253.141,"text":"那25年前的案子它的性質就是這樣哪知道說25年後我們會變成這麼龐大的一個犯罪組織我們面對的跟以前是完全是不可同日而語所以你要以指揮監督這種大型案子我的經驗是很多的並不是沒有只是我沒有把它寫進去而已"},{"start":4254.441,"end":4276.798,"text":"那我方不方便再請教那我請教賴總統有沒有特別提說他提名你的原因以及未來您的這個當任檢察長的辦案的重點是不是可以請您說明一下我跟委員這個誠實的講沒有我還沒見過總統沒有任何的提示但是不用提示"},{"start":4279.098,"end":4298.465,"text":"就是說你要爭取這個同意權提名跟同意權我該做什麼事情我很清楚那條線也很清楚我要率領的全體檢察官要能夠遵照法律的規定要公平的來偵辦任何案子沒有派系黨派之分這個是非常明確的"},{"start":4299.628,"end":4327.55,"text":"那未來您的辦案重點可不可以簡單說明一下辦案重點對你來講是比較重要的比如說等一下可能我會請教你的就是有關於詐騙詐欺最近氾濫你有沒有什麼是你的辦案重點我們的重點就是今年的大選這是大選還有貪圖案件詐欺也在委員剛才問的詐欺也在還有國安案件還有我們的營業秘密這都是我們我們還有一個那個掃黑這都是我們最高檢非常核心的工作"},{"start":4328.444,"end":4358.199,"text":"好那針對詐騙你有沒有什麼可以未來可以讓詐騙案件可以降低的一些方式報告委員詐騙案件已經降了超過百分之二十五了我是說還有沒有降低的方式不是現在降低多少這個決策是多方向的我想委員非常有經驗第一個就是要跨機關還有跨公司協力目前台高檢在做的這個預警系統就非常有效他已經成功攔阻十一億的彰款的匯出我想這個是我們檢察官往前跨一步"},{"start":4358.655,"end":4384.552,"text":"在可疑的賬戶的時候我們就凍結然後開始追往上追這就是公司協力跨機關的合作這是非常非常重要那再來最重要的是我們要扣住這些賬戶然後來落實返還我想民眾最關心的點在這裡我們就是如何去把這些賬款全部扣住將來返還最後最重要就是要宣導提名來謝謝實際的關係請教您最後一個問題因為當然最近有一個"},{"start":4389.336,"end":4416.075,"text":"問題就是我們這個基層的檢察員的過勞的問題也有基層檢察員檢察官集體離職的等等相關的問題那當然就像你講的當然我們在偵辦案件的時候很積極然後把這個詐騙的金額下降那當然檢察官的也會非常相對非常辛苦那你對於基層檢察官過勞集體離職你待在檢察總長有沒有如果未來待在檢察總長你有沒有一些方式可以給他比如說AI偵辦或什麼樣的方式"},{"start":4417.126,"end":4446.258,"text":"謝謝委員的關心我真的是替檢察官感謝委員我想現在最重要的就是減輕檢察官的負擔那我在當次長的時候包括現在部裡面一直在推像我們的檢察官助理我們已經非常成功的到院裡面同意我們再來的兩年我們會增加244個那當然這也是大院的一個支持檢察官助理對檢察官來講非常的重要可以有效的緩解他們的壓力"},{"start":4447.038,"end":4465.011,"text":"再來剛才委員提到了AI對AI不是只有幫我們寫書類我們現在在進行的是什麼是AI輔助偵查系統希望有一天我們AI就是我們一個檢查事務官可以提供給我們很多偵查作為的協助這都是我們努力的目標還有我們書類簡化我們的"},{"start":4468.233,"end":4486.578,"text":"這個立案審查的制度在議的一個簡化這個有很多很多我們部裡面一直在推目標就是要減輕檢察官的工作負擔這是我們在努力的我想這個是一定要做的最刻不容緩的工作好 謝謝我們的問題到這裡謝謝您的回應 謝謝好 謝謝張志榮委員接下來我們請翁曉琳委員上台質詢"},{"start":4502.691,"end":4525.227,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請貝提尼人請貝提尼人委員好是貝提尼人許檢察官您好那麼今天這場同意權的審查我想這不是只是在審查一個人您個人本身而是在審查整個台灣的檢查體系我們究竟是要停留在過去"},{"start":4527.048,"end":4542.874,"text":"守舊的這種威權移序還是說我們要邁向真正的法治國家那我必須在這裡坦白的說我發現現在的檢查制度已經不是零星的個別問題而是它可能是涉及到一個整體系統性的失靈所以接下來我的問題可能會環繞在整個檢查權制度的問題然後也要就教您的看法"},{"start":4548.596,"end":4552.179,"text":"那我們知道其實現在台灣的檢查制度呢主要是採的是這個單偵查主體制度所以檢察官他同時握有偵查權還有起訴權甚至他可能會實質的影響到審判的這樣的能力那麼這個在比較法上面其實可以說是相對來說比較老舊的一個過度集權的設計因此可能會發生濫權的機率極高"},{"start":4572.654,"end":4586.466,"text":"那麼以韓國為例我們知道在這個他們從2022年一直到最近2026年的3月份他們基本上對於整個檢查權的制度進行大幅度的修改那麼甚至已經廢除了檢察官的調查權的制度規定終結了韓國78年來的這種偵查起訴一把抓的歷史明確走向偵查與起訴分立"},{"start":4596.634,"end":4623.459,"text":"限縮檢查權限以及強化外部監督的這個方向但是呢台灣我們看到我們的檢查改革制度幾乎是原地踏步都沒有任何的進展所以我在這裡想請教被提名人您是否認同目前台灣檢查制度的這種一手偵查一手起訴的制度其實已經導致了權力的過度集中我們是不是未來可能可以參考像是日本韓國等等國家納入司法"},{"start":4626.34,"end":4635.521,"text":"警察為偵查主體檢察官就回歸到起訴的專業還是您個人認為其實現在制度是毫無問題請您回答"},{"start":4638.234,"end":4665.367,"text":"謝謝委員我目前認為我們檢察官為偵查主題沒有問題然後但是因為工作量負荷很重所以我們現在是在檢討的是有哪些案子可以免於解送可以在警察這一端就在報告檢察官同意之後可以在當地就做處理這樣可以免除警察的移送檢察官的一個夜間的訊問這是可以改良"},{"start":4665.987,"end":4667.137,"text":"但是韓國的這個制度"},{"start":4668.775,"end":4691.346,"text":"我們再觀察因為真的嗎委員你真的相信把這個偵查權移給警察你真的睡得著覺嗎有沒有客觀性獨立性這樣說好了以及資源分配的問題每個國家的國情或有不同但是呢不得不說其實日本韓國的制度的確是有我國值得參考的地方那麼我剛剛問的是說檢察官會不會有濫權有權力過度集中的問題我覺得這個議題其實跟檢察官的工作量的負荷"},{"start":4698.129,"end":4723.341,"text":"沒有太大直接的相關因為我們知道其實現在的這個圖片就是大家社會上面對於司法不獨立然後司法有濫權的問題其實很大一部分可能都是因為檢查制度的關係所造成人民的一個印象那我覺得這個部分其實是值得檢討的或許我們不需要就是像這個日本韓國完全都是以"},{"start":4724.041,"end":4747.157,"text":"司法警察作為最主要的偵查主體但是未來有沒有可能納入相關的案件可以有所謂的雙偵查主體的這個制度我覺得這個是可以思考的這個部分的話可能邀請檢察總長假設如果您未來被提名人有幸擔任檢察總長的話我覺得應該要去嚴正的思考這個問題好那接下來我要談的就是說您在自傳當中曾經有提到過就是說檢察官的辦案不應該只是追求定罪率更應該要有勇氣去"},{"start":4754.561,"end":4777.266,"text":"認錯和糾錯可是我們要怎麼樣去認錯跟糾錯呢這個部分的話是本席想請教的首先呢您說這個追求定罪率不是檢察官辦案的一個主要目標那麼可是追求定罪率不是法務部向來的主張嗎那麼如果不追求定罪率的話那麼是不是未來檢察官他可能濫刑起訴或是待遇起訴的問題會更為嚴重"},{"start":4781.52,"end":4801.718,"text":"報告委員你要相信我我當檢察官的時候從來不看報表因為我認為辦案的正確性就是定追率是隨著你的努力他自己就會上去那有什麼好看的而且每個月的新案子那麼多我沒有時間去看這個東西我的意思是檢察官不要只有看到那個定追率而是看到"},{"start":4803.357,"end":4826.785,"text":"當事人的人權公平審判的機會要給當事人有充分講話的機會有利跟不利的都要加以注意這樣才能夠做正確的判斷了解謝謝貝庭銘人您的說法但是不可否認的日本的定罪率是高達九成以上台灣的定罪率其實普遍來講大概就七八成像一些國安案件的定罪率它更低"},{"start":4827.005,"end":4832.83,"text":"所以我要講就是說是這個部分的話也是值得思考因為很多檢察官會認為說這向來整個法務部的主張是要追求的就是以定罪律它也是一個很重要去評鑑檢察官他到底起訴是不是夠嚴謹夠認真的一個指標好那接下來還有就是說現在我們看到檢察官幾乎沒有退場機制沒有退場機制現行的評鑑制度可能收了很多案件但是它成立的比例是微乎其微那麼"},{"start":4856.788,"end":4868.262,"text":"這代表說這個制度可能根本不是一個監督機制而是它更像是一個庇護的一個制度就保護檢察官那麼所以請問被提名人如果說一個檢察官他濫刑起訴不起訴或是濫權上訴那麼幾乎"},{"start":4872.006,"end":4896.327,"text":"到最后都不会有任何的惩处那么人民要如何相信司法呢更何况就是说我们现在知道我们因为要推动就是呃人民这个司法信任度的提高啊然后人民参与司法所以现在已经有国民法官法就是国民去参与刑事审判法那未来在侦查的部分您是否支持我们也可以参考像是日本的做法制定检查审查会的专法"},{"start":4897.128,"end":4903.574,"text":"我們可以強化淘汰制度 也就是說讓人民也可以去參與有關於檢察官的這個總統的作為"},{"start":4909.766,"end":4926.872,"text":"有關於監督檢察官我們本來就有評鑑委員會我們還有懲戒法院檢察院的彈劾這些都是在監督檢察官是不是依法在執行職務我們現在個案已經很多就是有人提出來檢舉我們會去調查"},{"start":4929.853,"end":4957.197,"text":"而且事實上他的退場機制他的監督機制還是不夠延遲這一年來有四個檢察官已經被撤職了這是累積下來一年內有四位我們給他調整職務了所以我們是有退場機制不是沒有你現在支不支持未來如果說可以讓人民也可以參與刑事的審查制度"},{"start":4958.456,"end":4962.5,"text":"本來人民就可以申請個案評鑑啊您知道現在法務部本身有在推動這個法嗎沒有 應該是沒有您回去好好看你的立法計畫吧徐檢察官你還擔任法務部次長兩年吧 就每一年的立法計畫裡面都有這個法"},{"start":4982.429,"end":5005.488,"text":"所以您看看是不是支持國民參與檢查審查法這個是你們自己的立法計畫接下來我還要再問一個就是社會上最有感的一個問題就是有關於淨檢文化那理論上偵查應該不公開但是為了保護被告的名譽避免輿論的審判 維護司法公正但是現在我們看到的情況是什麼"},{"start":5007.949,"end":5025.743,"text":"搜索還沒有結束筆錄還沒有做完特定媒體就已經掌握了這個相關的細節甚至連偵查的方向都精準的掌握那麼形態招總長說其實偵查不公開很難做到我想請問您您認為偵查不公開是不是真的很難做到無法落實所以它只是一個訊示規定"},{"start":5027.564,"end":5039.21,"text":"我們要承認他很難但是我們還是會依規定必要的時候一定要立案偵辦然後事實要對外說明我們還是會努力的去偵辦我們過去這些年裡面有沒有曾經有兩個檢察官是因為違反偵查不公開的原則而被處分的沒有"},{"start":5046.693,"end":5068.292,"text":"沒有所以這代表什麼代表也有可能另外你內部的監督機制其實出了很大的問題所以本先生想請教就是說假設你有幸上任你是否可以承諾就是未來可以建立偵查的存取追蹤機制如果說一旦有發生外洩追查到人或是對洩密者可以進行實質的懲處這個我們可以列入考慮"},{"start":5073.977,"end":5084.705,"text":"因為偵查不公開看起來有些很多是技術面的問題麻煩是可以再請我最後一分鐘的時間也先聯席所以我稍微退一下好那我認為說偵查不公開的問題非常嚴重非常的重要也希望被提名如果您有事上的話應該要好好去處理這個問題然後最後一個問題就是有關於就是說因為您曾經擔任過國安局副局長但時間並不長其實只有九個月的時間"},{"start":5101.278,"end":5108.969,"text":"那么我想请问您 您认为国安局和检察官之间的两者关系是如何两者的职权逻辑思维是相同的吗"},{"start":5110.748,"end":5119.432,"text":"我想他們的職責是不一樣的 一個是犯罪偵查 一個是情報的收集跟研析那不一樣 可是我們辦理國安所以就是因為兩個的體系 他的職權邏輯思維是並不一樣所以基本上是屬於一個緊張對立的關係 那麼就辦理這個相關的國安的這個案件"},{"start":5136.38,"end":5155.63,"text":"當局為導向 為主可是我們可以看到在過去檢察官所偵辦的案件當中雖然說起訴跟被告的人數是逐年攀升可是他的定罪率以及定罪被告的人數卻是這個看起來是 曲線是下滑的所以我想請問被提名人以你過去的官員經驗是否會影響到你對偵查發動門檻的認定你將來會不會傾向採取的是"},{"start":5162.333,"end":5164.755,"text":"用預防性偵查取代證據導向的偵查你怎麼樣確保偵查體系不會國安思維化不會被國安思維滲透"},{"start":5174.585,"end":5203.048,"text":"我們國安專組的檢察官在偵辦國安案件的時候都非常非常的等於是精準的來蒐集這些證據但是先天上他是有困難的他是有困難的但是我們檢察官還是不會放棄那我們二審對國安案件他也有一個確定判決的延期的一個小組也會把所有的可能被被法院不接受的一些判決我們會把他相關的資料都蒐集起來再做延期"},{"start":5203.288,"end":5230.829,"text":"本席非常期待就是假設您之後擔任有幸擔任檢察總長的話還是要抓住就檢察官最重要的職權就要以證據當然當然當然要證據辦案而不是用什麼情報啊情資就去辦案不行不行這個否則的話這會讓人民會認為這就是一個政治辦案然後打著國安知名可視的去行政治打壓政敵的這樣的一個情況這會引起人民對於司法更加不信任"},{"start":5231.249,"end":5235.571,"text":"好那以上我就問到這邊好謝謝好謝謝董事長李委員接下來我們請張宏祿委員上台質詢我請備提名人好我們請備提名人"},{"start":5258.925,"end":5266.939,"text":"委員好我看了你自己的自傳什麼的我想"},{"start":5269.772,"end":5297.092,"text":"這個在司法界反正操縱的都是關於人民生命財產生死很多的息息相關的問題那如何能夠保持初衷我相信要進入司法體系剛畢業一定有雄心旺志不然直接去當律師就好了幹嘛來這裡對不對那如何保持初衷"},{"start":5298.123,"end":5304.961,"text":"那你如果有機會當檢察總長之後如何讓我們的所有的同仁能夠保持初衷"},{"start":5307.406,"end":5327.368,"text":"我認為一個好的檢察官我們要有一個中心的理念我們今天不求財不求官為了是為人民來謀福利這一個信念可以一路陪我走了三十幾年我並沒有改變過我想這是一個中心思想如果一個人把錢跟"},{"start":5329.109,"end":5342.158,"text":"官位職位看得很重要他一定會被扭曲掉所以當檢察官一輩子當一個檢察官也是一種光榮個案的公平正義的追求是一個檢察官最偉大的一個目標"},{"start":5344.331,"end":5366.321,"text":"我就是看了你的自傳嘛你有這個想法嘛那你今天有機會當了總長你如何去讓全部的人能夠覺得他也能夠保持初衷因為我看到你有寫你的追求你的目標之一也是要人民相信司法然後呢要人民信賴司法"},{"start":5368.323,"end":5379.912,"text":"所有的我們的檢察官做什麼的他如果有保持這個初心的話我相信所有的案子所有的什麼的都很容易可以接受人民的檢驗"},{"start":5383.861,"end":5398.895,"text":"你自己可以做得到那你有這個位置之後你如何去讓所有人也能夠永遠保持這個初衷我想我們的檢察長我們的主任檢察官都肩負這個使命你就是要把這個理念"},{"start":5399.976,"end":5423.034,"text":"傳達給每個檢察官都能夠堅持然後再透過所有能夠宣導的機會像其實我們很多辦了一些案子我們會適時的發布新聞讓媒體知道像之前我剛才講過的我們那個食品物理的案子我們就召開一個跟縣政府召開一個記者會讓媒體來播送我們如何幫國家省了十幾億那個報導也是非常的正向"},{"start":5423.915,"end":5451.606,"text":"彰化地檢署辦理那個國土案件連那個雜誌都有刊登天下雜誌都刊登過這個是是一件啦這個是你說的這些我也不否認但你認不認為啊我們常常講的啦身教言教很重要啦當然對不對身教言教很重要嘛那從上到下如果都是這樣子來做"},{"start":5452.826,"end":5468.643,"text":"幾年之後然後建立了這個規格建立了這種風氣你覺得這樣子會不會比從制度上來講空話快得多啊有沒有這個可能因為我對你們的體系不了解"},{"start":5470.123,"end":5486.308,"text":"我們當然除了個案追求公平正義做一個妥適的決定以外當然有機會宣導的時候我們也會去利用各種的媒介來宣導檢察官在為國家做了什麼事情只是檢察官通常是比較低調的這一點是先天設計的問題"},{"start":5488.328,"end":5512.965,"text":"我認為啊我剛講的生教研教這樣講好像是在教小學生啦但也不...是個比喻啦是你能不能要求包括從你啊或什麼本身做起你的形式風格你的就是怎麼樣對不對這個就是建立一個典範一個風範一個典範是對不對"},{"start":5514.164,"end":5524.833,"text":"如果你有機會 你能不能說在你的任期裡面就是建立這個典範這個典範我一定會不斷的告訴很多人我的理念"},{"start":5525.953,"end":5545.248,"text":"我再來會有機會我有可能有機會有接觸到檢察長啊或者是各地檢署的檢察官的機會我也會把這個理念介紹給所有的同仁大家能夠認同這個理念除了用嘴巴講還有很多啦我剛講的就是"},{"start":5546.008,"end":5567.984,"text":"你如何去樹立的我相信你有你自己的智慧那我是期許說能夠這樣子做這個風氣的改變其實上位者如何去做我覺得這個就是典範的樹立這個很多歷史故事你也都知道也不用說了是沒有問題最後我就想其實"},{"start":5569.085,"end":5586.946,"text":"我們在看很多的新聞很多什麼偵查不公開偵查不公開其實我真的覺得不管他是十惡不赦的人對啊或者是他一些小事情一些不能說小事情就是比如這個"},{"start":5589.56,"end":5599.2,"text":"有牽涉到私人私領域的事情我們看很多也都是報導出來啊這個未來我們到底能不能去防範啊"},{"start":5601.354,"end":5624.306,"text":"包委員我非常非常的認同偵查不公開這件事情我自己當檢察官我當檢察長我手下的案子絕對是密不通風而且我會一再告誡我們的司法人員那個司法警察這一件不准洩漏任何的消息其實我有辦了一些案子是非常大的但是外面都不知道因為檢察官辦案不是吹樓打鼓我們重點是把案子辦好"},{"start":5625.086,"end":5649.976,"text":"這是我一直來的理念我希望把這個告訴所有的我們對於這種案子我們會嚴加的來檢討並且督導那如果有發現情節有涉及到刑事責任我會要求台高檢督導各地檢署檢察長要分案偵辦並在一段時間不違反偵查不公開的情況之下要對外說明我們非常重視這個問題只是真的"},{"start":5652.777,"end":5669.513,"text":"不是那麼容易辦的案子我們會全力以赴這就我剛說的啦典範如何樹立只要幾個樹立幾個典範我覺得大家就會往那個方向走啦是是好 謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來我們請王宏威 王委員上台質詢"},{"start":5683.424,"end":5706.245,"text":"好 謝謝主席 請貝提名人 沒關係你可以喝水好 我們請貝提名人上台貝提名人我想請問一下 因為在昨天召開的公聽會裡面各媒體非常重視的 也就是我們那個高檢署主任檢察官陳鴻達他的這個發言"},{"start":5709.708,"end":5713.37,"text":"因為我也看了這個相關的報告他大概是裡面偏扶最多的我也把它看完了那請問一下被提名人您對於陳鴻達主任檢察官對您的指教還有對線下就是我們檢察總長的這個職權功能角色你同意嗎還是你覺得有部分你是不以為然的"},{"start":5740.117,"end":5755.807,"text":"好 柯委員報告那可能陳主任陳主任是我非常敬重的學長他一直以來對司法獨立是不遺離的這是值得我們敬佩的那他可能質疑到可能沒有當過二審的檢察長以及北檢的檢察長他認為你的資歷不夠"},{"start":5757.83,"end":5785.542,"text":"那我想我們檢查生涯就是這幾年而已那可能長官賦予我們的任務我們必須要去接受然後去接受挑戰去磨練那每個人沒有辦法預先為自己規劃說我這一站在哪裡下一站在哪裡下一站在哪裡所以檢查總長從來在你的生涯規劃裡面有想過嗎從來沒有過從來沒有過因為我的目標是台中高分檢的主任檢察官而已那"},{"start":5786.607,"end":5809.063,"text":"那司法人員認識人事條例16條規定的三款室友我是符合我是有時任檢察官超過20年以上所以我是符合那至於領導才能的部分他其中有一個重點他認為你的就是你的歷練裡面包含法務部次長包括這個國安局副局長"},{"start":5810.385,"end":5819.373,"text":"會使得你有具有政務官的濃厚政治性而沒有辦法在你就任檢察總長之後可以斬斷這些黨政人脈的關係那你覺得他這樣的疑慮存在嗎"},{"start":5826.693,"end":5844.869,"text":"保安委員我想陳主任的疑慮是多的因為我剛才有特別的提到說可以去檢視我在國安局副局長我做過的事情以及我當法務部的政務次長我做過的事情都是在為國家安全為我們保護的政策來推動"},{"start":5846.27,"end":5867.707,"text":"哪一項是政治性的行為沒有啊我們在這裡修打詐司法在這裡修刑法哪一個是為政治的都是為全民的利益啊所以這種考慮我覺得職位不是重點是在於人的心如果我是一個公正的人我是一個守法的人我想去哪個位置會不會跳離法律的規範"},{"start":5870.236,"end":5897.912,"text":"我覺得大家會有這樣的質疑其實我看了你的履歷跟你過去的辦案老師說現任的檢察總長邢太昭他應該要負最大責任因為他一個非常濃厚的政治性他過去他在擔任檢察總長之前他太多政治辦案老師說我憑良心講我覺得被提名人我反而看不到"},{"start":5899.946,"end":5904.848,"text":"因為邢太昭的爭議把檢察總長的位置都已經做到爛了讓大家沒有辦法信任檢察總長他是不是一個真的獨立超然的一個角色比如說最近就是三中案他過去邢太昭追殺這個三中案馬英九總統"},{"start":5920.733,"end":5925.237,"text":"現在到二審去年底他還是無罪結果好像高檢署還要準備再繼續上訴這個一個這麼在國內政治來說這麼明顯的一個政治案件搞到二審都無罪了還要繼續的上訴第二個"},{"start":5943.431,"end":5955.018,"text":"我們為什麼一直非常擔心政治辦案馬上今年年底九合一選舉明年是總統大選在之前也就是韓國瑜院長參選總統的那一次突然出現了一個王立強的共諜案還有向心案當時啊這個政治性辦案到什麼程度先是把這個向心的夫婦她是從這個香港過來"},{"start":5970.919,"end":5990.614,"text":"然後先是 但他是共諜案共諜共諜 辦不下去了結果就說 但你洗錢洗錢辦不下去 通通無罪 通通沒事結果這對夫妻在台灣被限制出境 將近四年之久老實講 我覺得這都是我們司法的恥辱啦"},{"start":5992.096,"end":5996.502,"text":"為了配合一個總統選舉可以政治辦案到這種地步過去邢太昭還有什麼最近我們在討論能源問題當時台電有一個比較大的停電案他還去辦基層的員工"},{"start":6008.138,"end":6032.838,"text":"老實講他還用什麼用國安層級來辦他說他們呢可能違反了什麼就說是影響什麼公用事業的然後召集所有檢察官因為那時候有很多停電注意有沒有有心人士故意要造成恐慌一個停電案變成去用司法的層級去辦就政治的層級去辦基層的員工真的是可忍孰不可忍啊更不要說"},{"start":6038.042,"end":6056.089,"text":"剛才也有委員在非常關心的就是有關於柯文哲案中的北檢洩密案有沒有涉及不法虛晃一招啊那時候習太太說痛心疾首啊要辦 辦了之後不了了之所以 被提名人"},{"start":6056.969,"end":6081.914,"text":"你在這個此時此刻 你當然認為你過去的辦案你是中規中矩啦我憑良心 我看到你的案子不像習太昭這麼離譜可是非常重要一點如果你真的有幸當上檢察總長我覺得一定要把這樣的一個這麼濃厚的這種政治的色彩一定要盡量盡量的降低"},{"start":6082.874,"end":6106.85,"text":"最近韓國有一個他們的司法改革嘛他其實他是要修憲啦他們的改革其中就是限縮檢察官的調查權為什麼呢他覺得從他們過去幾次的政爭也好政治事件也好檢察官的權力太大了檢察官一再的涉入政治鬥爭裡面"},{"start":6108.803,"end":6138.603,"text":"然後他們認為應該要限塑檢察官檢察官其實我們因為時間關係其實有太多要請教你啦別說無限的抗告檢察官可以一直抗告一直抗告我們希望二審能夠抗告法院能夠直接做裁定這個我美中贊成原來司法院提出來的修正草案他們自為裁定就好大家就不要再有分別不要再抗告了對不對他們只要做確定的他都發回我們當然要繼續做啊"},{"start":6138.963,"end":6161.869,"text":"那我請問一下 我剛才特別提到 像這個三中案作為一個前總統 震驚全國嘛已經十幾年啊 十多年 老實講 最近大家還討論到馬總統健康狀態啊說實在 一個人十幾年啊 這樣子的一個司法的這樣子追溯下來二審都無罪了 結果說還要上訴"},{"start":6163.496,"end":6178.584,"text":"沒完沒了所以我要講的就是說我們檢察官我有太大的一個權利了真的太大的權利要羈押也是你不羈押也是你那個交保"},{"start":6179.504,"end":6203.179,"text":"不交保也是你起不起訴也是你你的新政已成最後就會變成尤其我們過去我剛談到有這麼多的一個根本跟政治有非常大關係而且在選舉期間去辦這種案子辦了四年下來什麼都沒有選舉也選舉完了然後人民的權利也被你也被你限縮了所以我真的一個期許"},{"start":6204.656,"end":6222.461,"text":"我認為啊雖然我是作為在野黨但我認為你的狀況我認為是比邢太昭好太多了啦可是我也很擔心在現在的政治氛圍下以及我們對檢察官的這樣的一個權力之下權力不能濫用"},{"start":6224.152,"end":6239.33,"text":"你同意對不對權利不能濫用不要到韓國大家受不了了最後要修憲去限縮在國會限縮檢察官的一個權利檢察官真的不能作為政治的打手這個是我最高最高的一個呼籲好不好"},{"start":6240.73,"end":6263.136,"text":"是好 謝謝王宏威委員的發言對被提名的語重心長多所期許那接下來請王美惠委員來發言王美惠委員沒在來 請黃婕委員王美惠這次不行黃美惠委員 王美惠委員沒在來 接下來請黃婕委員黃婕委員 黃婕委員不在來 請張雅玲委員來發言"},{"start":6281.118,"end":6282.464,"text":"請備提名人委員好"},{"start":6286.268,"end":6314.342,"text":"你好 我想前面可能有很多跟關於政治的討論那我這邊基本上就是回到非常實務面的討論就是有關於兒少的議題上面想要來跟被提名人做一個討論就是說我想今天其實我最在意的事情是說未來一位要指揮監督全國檢察官的總長到底要用什麼樣子的案件來看待兒少我們這投影片還沒有出來是不是好"},{"start":6315.598,"end":6323.26,"text":"没关系我想我先讲的就是说因为我想最近有一个案子就是在土城的时候"},{"start":6325.08,"end":6352.052,"text":"土城的一個案子是這個老師他是猥褻了12名兒童但是這個狀況是家屬其實已經在報案前就已經先打電話去確認流程警方也表示可以直接前往可是實際到現場又不要求他到另外一個派出所到了派出所之後又告訴他這個案件比較嚴重要到婦幼隊然後再去驗傷所以一個不到10歲的孩子"},{"start":6352.592,"end":6370.489,"text":"為了要讓加害人被追究就在這14個小時一次又一次的去撕開自己的創傷我認為我想自己我也看過您的自傳其實您是有這個婦幼的專業您過去也是這個婦幼保護跟被害人保護的一個歷練所以我想"},{"start":6373.512,"end":6393.85,"text":"這件事情其實我看在2024年的時候高檢署舉辦重大兒虐與司法詢問員研討會的時候您自己就有公開提到說司法詢問員的制度是要避免兒少及心智障礙被害人反覆陳述減輕心理負擔也就是說要透過制度優化確保我們的被害人在平等跟尊重的環境下參與"},{"start":6394.691,"end":6410.554,"text":"司法的一個程序而事實上其實我們的程序上面也都存在不管是在衛福部也好法務部也好其實都有相關的一個程序可是我們的制度上似乎在第一線並沒有真正的落實您認為問題到底是什麼"},{"start":6412.538,"end":6427.76,"text":"報告委員因為委員所追尋的這個內容應該是比較超出我們今天的範圍因為附約案件的話並不在我們的督導範圍之內沒有我的意思是說我今天是要問您的態度您到底可以被檢察官"},{"start":6428.1,"end":6446.073,"text":"因為詳細的內容我沒有卷我也沒有辦法客觀的回答我只能就這個感覺如果說一個小孩子要重複陳述十幾次的話我們就要檢討了我們真的就要檢討了因為不應該發生這樣的事情因為我們都有值班人員"},{"start":6446.773,"end":6449.517,"text":"抱歉喔 因為其實我想這個不是說針對這個個案來回覆喔而是說我們對於這樣子的案這樣子的狀態而是要減速的一個狀態其實是我們的一個目標嘛 對吧我們現在正在做啊對 那我的問題就是說問題是它沒有落實嘛所以您認為這個問題是在哪裡嘛"},{"start":6463.456,"end":6478.954,"text":"因為有時候檢察官的判斷他可能認為說這個案子還有一些疑點可能請警察再繼續調查所以他沒有馬上去做那個偵訊這個都有可能發生所以具體的狀況一定要值班的檢察官才能夠了解"},{"start":6479.534,"end":6494.288,"text":"那如果說重複十幾次這個就非常非常的因為其實我想並不是只有這個個案啦其實是有滿多不少的個案都有提出類似的問題那當時我們也做了一些了解普遍大家是說因為檢察官的案量很大"},{"start":6495.209,"end":6523.528,"text":"所以他難以及時親自詢問所以會用傳真指揮的方式來處理那結果就是讓被害人在警局枯等很久那也就是說原本我們的制度是好意希望可以保護他減速可是事實上卻造成他還是重複講那我想問一下就是說如果說您擔任檢察總長因為在我們的這個現在的檢察官的案量還是這麼大的狀況之下您覺得我們可以怎麼樣子來去改善這樣子的一個問題呢你有沒有一個方向呢"},{"start":6524.79,"end":6542.863,"text":"我想檢察官缺言那這個是一整體的問題我們當然就增援啦那剛才那個性侵害我自己也辦過我知道就是說有時候檢察官基於證據的收集有時候問完以後發現還有一些東西要再鑑定那我們是不是有一些"},{"start":6543.243,"end":6570.744,"text":"有些就會在第二次的開庭我覺得從兩次以上的開庭一定會有有時候是為了證據的蒐集這調查到最後的部分發現有一塊可能還不完整那為了起訴當然要完整性以免說到最後會拿到不利的判決所以有可能再補充的詢問這都會發生但是減少減速流程這絕對是我們追求的目標這我們已經執行很久了"},{"start":6571.264,"end":6599.3,"text":"對在被提名單未來如果真的是成為我們的檢查中章我希望我們可以如實的去檢討我們現在到底哪裡還有不足的地方然後你剛說有第一次開庭第二次開庭第一開始沒有拿到一些問題沒有達到陳述那這些東西是不是都可以再怎麼樣去精進因為畢竟我們還是要回到這個我們可以承諾我們可以承諾在相關的研討的時候也會提出來好那我還有下一題就是有關於我們的兒少延長性兒少性侵人被害人的追訴時效我們是"},{"start":6600.701,"end":6614.817,"text":"想請教你的立場,你是否支持延長呢?這個我們的草案現在已經送到大院了當然是支持,就是在20歲以前就不列入"},{"start":6615.478,"end":6630.065,"text":"就是說基本上您的態度是支持我們現在預告的版本嗎就是支持的OK好那我只是要了解你的態度那再來就是說我想要請教就是說因為我們還是回到一個檢察官我覺得我們這段時間其實社會也針對成少共"},{"start":6633.386,"end":6649.428,"text":"有很多的討論就是認為說我們應該要及早的介入更重的處理甚至把整個兒少的司法少年司法往成人的刑事司法的方向拉過去但是其實這有一點跟我們的CRC的精神是相違背的那我不曉得您的態度又是怎麼樣如何面對這樣子的問題"},{"start":6651.665,"end":6678.048,"text":"我想這個部分司法院已經在做檢討了陳少共犯站在檢察官的立場法官不可以完全退離因為如果不解決陳少共犯的問題的話會有源源不絕的案子會進入少年法庭所以我們現在重點是要協助我們去追成年犯只有有效的肅清這些成年犯兒少才不會再繼續變成共犯"},{"start":6678.328,"end":6686.63,"text":"那你認為兒少他是被害者還是受害者呢他應該是證人他是證人我們是把他列為證人在我們這個角度是證人"},{"start":6687.674,"end":6716.593,"text":"好 所以我的問題就是說因為我認為我們在這段時間其實跟一些檢察官在溝通了解的時候我們其實都可以感受到他們積極破案的一個決心大家都非常的想要趕快去避免下一個人受害這我百分之百肯定但是我們也可以看到說在這個過程之中它是不是有一些沒有考量到它也是一個需要被保護的額上這個東西要如何去平衡就是說當我積極的想要去破案的時候我可能會"},{"start":6717.894,"end":6732.666,"text":"比較長的時間去來詢問他那這樣子的狀況之下可能就會讓或是有些詢問的方式也沒有非常的考量到他是一個受害者的角度所以我想這應該是要找到一個應該我們會引應該都會有一些"},{"start":6733.266,"end":6746.888,"text":"遮蔽 隱匿 或者是有一些保護的措施兒少的話不可能是這樣大剌剌的就這樣當然我知道 我指的是說我們在這個包含他在詢問的時候呢有時候要陪同"},{"start":6747.745,"end":6776.021,"text":"有時候可是有時候也有這種例外的案例啦所以我想我們實務上面跟我們制度上面呈現了一個落差那所以我覺得就是說這部分其實就在有衝突的狀況之下就是期待說檢查總長未來您勝利擔任的時候呢我們還是要展現這樣子的態度不要說為了一面為了要積極的破案結果卻傷害了一個兒少的權益這中間是要取得一個平衡的好謝謝"},{"start":6777.662,"end":6801.392,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝張雅玲委員的發言接下來我們請李貞秀女士來上台發言非常歡迎基於整個朝野協商韓院長所做的法律的一個協商結論我們尊重 委員會尊重李貞秀女士的上台發言請"},{"start":6803.834,"end":6832.44,"text":"主席好 要麻煩你幫忙請徐輝提名人上台 謝謝謝謝 因為特別跟李正秀女士來做一個說明就上一次這個整個朝野協商的一個結論我們也尊重基於對立法院長 韓國瑜院長對於法律協商的結論我們委員會尊重李正秀女士的上台發言但是我們也尊重目前行政院所有的一個結論 行政官員"},{"start":6833.34,"end":6841.607,"text":"可以不必尋答這個部分也請李正秋女士可以諒解請你充分把握你的發言的時間讓我們來聆聽好不好請國人大家幫忙一起"},{"start":6847.728,"end":6872.968,"text":"看看那個從大院質詢到今天然後賴政府團隊一直這樣子對一個陸配立委的公然羞辱那我先繼續我的那個質詢我要請教那個徐備提名人立法院通過中選會人事同意權行政院就應該依照程序發布人事令現在的行政院遲遲不肯發布你認為行政院這樣的職務怠惰夠不夠誠賭職罪"},{"start":6878.213,"end":6895.88,"text":"所以今天是不會有人回答那我在想說這種不是司法檢調都是獨立辦案嗎從昨天的中選會到今天的檢察總長現在都已經全部變成民進黨的檢查體系民進黨的中選會了嗎檢察官是不是應該要主動偵辦行政院著龍台"},{"start":6905.916,"end":6932.051,"text":"被提名人不回答是要包庇行政院長嗎中選會無法正常運作直接影響人民的參政投票權利民進黨政府現在是要沒收人民的基本權利嗎這些看來被提名人都無法回答今天是你是被那個人事審查權也可以傲慢到這樣不接受立委的詢打"},{"start":6935.441,"end":6943.833,"text":"那台灣民眾黨我們大家都在看 國人承包也都在看還是被提名的人只在乎檢查總長的職位能不能通過"},{"start":6947.438,"end":6971.297,"text":"再來要請教被提名人台灣民眾黨黨團去年通過法院組織法落實了法庭透明但目前司法院卻背離立法原意將原本立法者要求的公開播送延遲司法院違背國會立法權限縮母法讓陽光無法照進法庭現在的法律已經變成有檢察官解釋了嗎還是司法院"},{"start":6972.406,"end":6998.487,"text":"有權可以扭曲立法者的原意這樣還需要立法院嗎還需要正當的立法程序嗎被提名的都不回答就對了請記得要尊重民意啊台灣民眾黨的不分區立委有30多萬的369萬的民意基礎"},{"start":7006.71,"end":7030.823,"text":"立法院不是行政院的立法局目前外界眾多的質疑聲浪都在批評現在有些不肖檢察官讓偵查不公開變成偵查大公開檢察官的起訴書淪為八卦笑料近幾年從宜蘭縣長林芝妙案立法委員高金樹美案到"},{"start":7031.583,"end":7049.159,"text":"台灣民眾黨創黨主席的柯文哲案雖然個案背景不同但都看到了偵查內容不斷外流檢方配合特定媒體引導輿論辦案輿論審判當檢查不公開變成選擇性公開檢查不公開成了媒體最公開"},{"start":7054.15,"end":7081.505,"text":"甚至連羈押都敢拿來當工具押人逼供個別檢察官公然討好上意墮落至此請問被提名人你若是檢察總長你要如何防止檢察官濫權偵查所以目前新的被提名人完全無法回答本席的這些最基本的審查問題"},{"start":7083.803,"end":7111.566,"text":"最後被提名人回答民眾黨台灣民眾黨的問卷中有提到針對不適任的檢察官要有相關的淘汰機制不適任檢察官讓司法體系已經成為最不被人民信任的機關但過去的一年多經過懲戒法院解除職位的才四位這樣做得到所謂的發揮淘汰功能嗎被提名人你上任之後"},{"start":7113.598,"end":7140.242,"text":"怎麼改善所以大家現在看到一個很好笑的人事審查立法委員面對的是一個空的質詢台被提名人沒有任何回應是你不想要被檢視嗎還是不需要通過民意的審查就已經內定好"},{"start":7142.423,"end":7168.191,"text":"是檢察總長了嗎你今天配合整個行政體系打壓一個民選的不分區立法委員中華民國憲法所有的民意政務官也好包括賴清德總統甚至本席都是對著中華民國憲法宣誓就任的請問你們這些人眼裡有中華民國憲法嗎"},{"start":7171.374,"end":7182.494,"text":"你家裡的薪水都是中華民國納稅人的薪水不是民進黨給你的薪水 也不是賴政府賴團隊給你的薪水"},{"start":7185.675,"end":7214.278,"text":"陸配的民意代表台灣民眾黨不是先例之前的國民黨也有過南投謝議員一樣也是陸配身份可是他從上任到卸任從來沒有任何事法性的問題今天賴政府帶著整個行政團隊刻意的羞辱陸配立法委員打壓陸配的民意代表原來本身合法的民意代表也全部給他薪水扣除"},{"start":7216.087,"end":7234.622,"text":"好 謝謝李珍秀女士那我想完全尊重你的發言行政部門或者行政官員或者被提名人之所以沒有上台倒不是他不尊重名義那是基於主席的一個才識他們可以不用上台備詢那其實"},{"start":7237.544,"end":7239.926,"text":"本席期許檢察總長身為檢察體系的最高長官不能淪為當權者的"},{"start":7262.955,"end":7289.705,"text":"法律打守啦 應該要積極維護程序正義維護司法正義 做全體國民的檢查整長讓人民能夠重新信任司法 謝謝好 謝謝李振秀女士啦 剛剛李振秀女士的發言其實除了說身份跟事實法律有待釐清以外那有一些發言也值得被提名人來做一個斟酌 再來請"},{"start":7301.037,"end":7310.769,"text":"接下來下一位我們邀請莊麗熊委員謝謝主席有請我們被提名人有請被提名人 謝謝"},{"start":7313.849,"end":7336.288,"text":"我想有幾個問題來請教總長被提名人我相信任何被提名總長一個必考題大家會問到的基於整個民主政治這個整個澄清勵志大家都會想到查查會選那今年又是一個大選年地方選舉本席倒有一些感慨"},{"start":7337.449,"end":7358.726,"text":"不管 除了六都以外啊 我不敢說六都全部都沒有會選但是呢 你走出六都以外的一個地方啊各個縣市啊 應該總長被提名人在整個司法實務裡面那麼長的一段時間應該都非常清楚啦那個會選喔 實在是真的是太可怕太可怕你覺得我們基層選舉會選嚴不嚴重"},{"start":7365.416,"end":7390.835,"text":"越是偏鄉的很多的候選人還是認為買票是有效的是 這個是對台灣我們是民主政治到現在這個很迫切該去改革的一個問題啦你說我們兩回算好了沒有?很難了調查局也難了 警察也難了兩到八代表都什麼原因你知道嗎?人情的因素啦"},{"start":7392.588,"end":7420.224,"text":"對 沒錯我大膽的講啊你很多偏鄉的地方啊超過90%基層選舉都是會選我們他不知道 檢察官他不知道調查局他不知道 警察他不知道人情因素 人力的因素舉證很困難的因素會選 現在跟以前不一樣啦以前是愛家愛婦啊 本味嫂啦上雷拼啦 發現金啦"},{"start":7422.489,"end":7428.954,"text":"我小時候 館長選舉 我跟你說 一票五十塊 又加二手小時候我都看得到 人家都幾個 現在不是了現在你說到發現金也很難去想像 幾乎都是買樁腳為什麼大家很會估票 調查局很會估票 你聽調查局在唬爛調查局哪會估票 那是樁腳在買票 很會估票所以現在買票都是買樁腳"},{"start":7452.241,"end":7474.606,"text":"故裝會在現金之前沒錯是嘛 幾乎都是這樣子的嘛所以我是覺得這個是被提問你必須要非常嚴肅去看待的問題我們法務部其實都非常嚴肅的去對外去宣示嚴查會選的一個決心可是那個成果在我這個從台北市"},{"start":7477.993,"end":7499.285,"text":"我台北去做議員 我看大家選立委我自己做總幹事回到屏東 現在去任養台東我看那個基層選舉 那個會選是可怕真的是可怕 我用可怕來形容所以我請教被提名人說 你有什麼補嗎現在已經發展到什麼了 你知道嗎票卡 農會裡面的幹部出來了 里長 船長出來了已經不在台灣了 飛到中國去"},{"start":7509.425,"end":7519.453,"text":"裝腳把你給綁死 免費的招待平常都不會穿什麼裝腳啦選舉要搞 你想 現在你要抓匯權 我都覺得時間都有點晚了我看前陣子都幾乎請光啦都已經帶到中國去啦那麼多的基層的幹部啊 全部這樣中央都帶去中國去拚 像這種狀況"},{"start":7533.564,"end":7542.958,"text":"我們 你說都沒有掌握嗎哪有可能沒有掌握所以這個一定會蒐證我希望聽到你的口中提出來就是說你們有補嗎"},{"start":7546.415,"end":7568.871,"text":"跟委員報告行蹤掌握一定要掌握再來金流想辦法拿到金流他們的出入還有金流這個都是將來所謂的間接證據我們要收集很多的東西那我們的那個茶茶會選的獎金也是會是一個誘因這些都是我們之前要先掌握的但是報告委員"},{"start":7569.711,"end":7587.857,"text":"任何的會選到最後一定要有現金到選民手上這個是跑不掉的我們抓到這個才有機會再往回回售所以有很多很多的偵查作為也不會在這裡詳細的談我們所有的查查的團隊現在早就已經"},{"start":7588.897,"end":7617.203,"text":"天羅地王佈陷下去了所以這個我不能說100%的抓到但是我們一定會盡全力的嚴密的查查這個有點像什麼以前非洲有那個角馬經過那個河流鱷魚會去吃他們有這種理念就是一隻給你吃其他的我就安全了所以我們有限的人力我們要做最有效的一個佈局我要抓到最多的會權的人"},{"start":7618.163,"end":7635.515,"text":"那事實上會有執行的困難我們也會克服我們會調所有的可以支援的人力全力的來查查我們調查局都會有一些支援的人力還有所有的警力也都會投入檢察官也都會投入我們會盡全力的去布線盡全力去查查"},{"start":7636.636,"end":7663.999,"text":"本席一直在司法法治委員會因為今年是選舉年我一定要緊盯這個議題我相信今年可以做出一個好成績這個不只是被提名的問題我相信黃次長也在這個地方這種要票要進到議會的都不會是好東西沒有說自己拿錢出來買票然後選上民意代表是要了為民服務沒有這麼崇高"},{"start":7665.371,"end":7688.527,"text":"那種買票進來的 我跟你們說 都差不多10天內差不多全部的座駕有空不順的啦站在法務部的立場 站在總長被提名的立場你如果有一天 通過了立法院的一個提名以後我期待啊 對於今年整個地方選舉年加大力道 嚴格查查 打擊會選 好不好"},{"start":7689.588,"end":7704.238,"text":"好 現在已經開始在進行 好 這樣我一個問題 我就是要你充分第二個 我在期許啦 但你的偵查不公開那個 那個不要開玩笑啦有時候還沒有看到起訴書 還沒有起訴 這偵辦當中啊 這個過程裡面啊這樣背來背去 到最後證明 唉唷 夭壽真的都有這一些"},{"start":7710.962,"end":7739.77,"text":"跟整個偵辦的內容有關這個從以前講到現在這個黃次長在這個地方也被問過很多次你們要如何去避免你們這個內控的一個機制你不可能民眾去幫你洩漏管道總是從你檢察官不管是調查員或者說書記官或者說律師律師不容易啦我看那個出來的部分啦在偵查當中出來那個幾乎都是用手機去拍的了嘛"},{"start":7740.41,"end":7752.189,"text":"那所以偵查不公開的部分是不是也請你在這個地方來做一個宣示這是你要怎麼去避免否則對整個司法的公信力尤其對檢察官的部分那個都是很大的搶害"},{"start":7753.393,"end":7778.427,"text":"我想偵查不公開檢討小組跟督導小組一定要落實來做檢討那如果發現有這些偵查不公開的可疑的時候那高檢署一定要督導 地檢署要分案偵辦而且要真正的落實去偵辦並且在一定時間不影響偵查不公開的情況之下一定要對外說明我覺得這一點一定要落實"},{"start":7780.268,"end":7789.01,"text":"因為他的確傷害了我們整個國人對於我們司法的一個信任而且這對當事人權益是很大的傷害但是"},{"start":7790.395,"end":7815.047,"text":"第一個但是查起來非常的困難第二個洩漏的人可能的人很多不一定是檢察官只是因為今天檢察官是偵查主體所以大家很容易就把這個責任丟到檢察官的身上其實我當檢察官這麼久哪有一個檢察官願意去洩漏這些東西這會造成偵查很大的阻礙所以我想不透怎麼會有這樣子的思維那當然"},{"start":7816.167,"end":7845.089,"text":"有人就會解讀說搶當官 升官什麼的可是那是馬上現在在做的事情是馬上偵查就會受阻礙所以我一直都百思不得其解因為接觸的人太多了也要跟被提名的人來叮嚀這你不能想不透因為當了檢查總長以後你指揮的是從最高檢到高檢所有基層檢察官你要去讓指揮調度接受你的監督所有的責任到最後"},{"start":7845.729,"end":7847.711,"text":"人家叫要叫什麼,那你來就叫你啊黃次長來就叫黃次長,就一定的啊你不能說我都想不透,不能想不透喔大家對你有所期待,這些負面的要把它給排除掉"},{"start":7859.054,"end":7878.259,"text":"對於社會對司法的信任有幫助第二個對於檢察官的聲譽說實在話啦百分之百的人也會認為你們都脫離不了關係啦你們都想最有機會去洩露的嘛要怎麼樣去杜絕就看你們的作為啦後來有所期待因為這個部分不能掉以輕心好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":7890.814,"end":7899.579,"text":"好來拍寫接下來我們有請這準備很久準備一副準備非常充分的徐宇珍委員來做選擇謝謝主席我們請徐備提名人謝謝有請備提名人"},{"start":7912.645,"end":7941.223,"text":"委員好被提名人您好今天我們在審查就是您被提名人的資格我想全國這個檢察總長是掌管全國的檢查體系所以說今天其實大家我想早上那麼多委員大家都在質詢的部分其實不只是看您的資歷夠不夠符合這樣的一個資格更重要的是要看你是不是能夠真的擋住政治力守住程序正義"},{"start":7942.083,"end":7959.713,"text":"檢察官回歸依法辦案而不是看顏色看風向跟看高層的意思所以你在這個自傳裡寫說要堅守政治中立要引領司法朝向公平公正的穩定發展要落實偵查不公開與偵辦的發展並重而且也要妥適的這個運用檢查一體更強調"},{"start":7963.495,"end":7983.551,"text":"檢查體系不可以受外界的這個壓力的干擾那這些話本席都完全的同意但問題是您近年來的經歷也是最容易讓人家質疑這個政治中立的地方包括說您在2023年9月借調到國安局擔任副局長在賴總統上任之後就擔任法務部的政司到了2026年"},{"start":7985.613,"end":8003.307,"text":"這個離開政策的職位調任最高檢主任檢察官那接著不到一個月總統就提名你出任檢察總長喔所以說包括這個您的這個剛剛有特別在昨天的宮廷會喔這個陳鴻達主任檢察官也提到了很多的質疑喔"},{"start":8003.807,"end":8033.107,"text":"那這種從政務官到這個檢察體系最高首長的快速接軌從政治上來看社會會質疑你可能離執政黨太近而且這種過水式的職位轉換也讓人家不得不懷疑這個你是政治檢察總長那面對各界的質疑跟批評請問貝提名人你有什麼回應好 謝謝委員那如果委員有繼續看我的資歷的話在國安局副局長再往前推"},{"start":8033.907,"end":8050.536,"text":"那可能就長達25年以上的檢察官所以我並不是一開始就站到非常好的位置一步一步我也是從後補一直一路往上爬的所以應該要去檢視我這25年我是不是這幾年我想"},{"start":8052.518,"end":8061.047,"text":"針對您的這個部分 你的自傳我都有看過了那我也了解您的背景但是為什麼大家會有這樣的質疑你必須要破除這樣的質疑就是要看您的表現那當然如果你有幸擔任這個整俠總長的時候你要怎麼破除外界對這樣子的一個質疑我覺得那才是重點對 沒錯 我完全贊同"},{"start":8072.74,"end":8098.585,"text":"那因為我覺得不要用我的職務去看我是不是有政治色彩而是要去看我擔任這個職務我做了什麼事這都可以檢討的好那我現在來請教您一下就是說在網路流傳有一個前我們的您看一下就是前民進黨的秘書長林錫耀的截圖對話關說司法人士那因為您是利害關係人那高檢署也已經表示分他治案在偵辦那請問一下您認不認識林錫耀"},{"start":8101.726,"end":8128.485,"text":"這次對話是不是偽真?不認識 我完全不知道他們在說什麼那這件案子現在偵辦到 進度到哪?我也不知道那如果 那案件簽結了嗎?我不知道 因為你是關西人因為連問我都沒有 因為真的是我完全不認識這兩位 連見面都沒有那請教你喔 如果假設你有幸擔任檢察總長的話未來你是可以指揮這個案件的辦案喔那您要怎麼做 這樣合適嗎?"},{"start":8130.446,"end":8150.982,"text":"這個案子就我來講不管我有沒有擔任這個職務我一定是迴避如果有要約談我我一定會去做筆錄就這樣簡單我絕對不會去介入這個案子因為有這樣子的一個我想這個對話流出來代表說您其實也跟這個執政黨的關係很好否則的話不可能這樣一路的平步青雲但是"},{"start":8151.642,"end":8165.598,"text":"當然我相信你如果有幸擔任檢察總長的話你應該是要秉持著這樣子的一個中立的精神來去處理相關的問題那當然現在大家也都很關注的就是剛剛也有幾個委員提到就是偵查不公開的部分因為"},{"start":8166.619,"end":8177.307,"text":"您剛有提到說會嚴格的要求落實偵查不公在你的自傳裡面可是我剛看你在回答委員的問題的時候又說但是包括你回答國民黨對您提問的問題裡面你也提到說媒體報導為必然洩密查證困難"},{"start":8184.312,"end":8206.12,"text":"因為您的態度很重要如果你就是要嚴格的偵查然後要落實這個偵查部公開如果有這樣的狀況你們一定會查到底辦到人那這樣子的話您的宣示相對很重要這樣會讓所有的這個基層的檢察官認為說當然剛剛有提到說不見得是檢察官但是在那機在整個的這個環境裡面"},{"start":8206.9,"end":8233.735,"text":"如果我們的態度是一定會嚴辦到底的時候大家當然就會很警惕尤其是現在大家都知道連法務部長都脫口說禁檢那也都只有特定的媒體表示這個絕對有相當的問題那所以我相信很多委員也都期許說未來如果你擔任檢察總長一定要嚴格的來落實偵查不通不管是對你們的形象對整個社會的形象跟整個政府的形象都有很重大的意義"},{"start":8234.455,"end":8260.051,"text":"我完全支持 我們一定會嚴辦那我想這個部分要請 未來如果您擔任檢察總長一定要嚴格來辦理 絕對不能再讓這種禁檢的這個問題一直存在那最後再請教您一個就是說您在自傳裡面有提到檢察官因具備悲天憫人的精神也強調要保護被害人跟弱勢者的權益那對於現在這個有關廢死的議題八成的民意是強調"},{"start":8261.832,"end":8288.27,"text":"這個反對廢除死刑那但是因為現判8號這些已經本來被判刑的這個死刑犯喔那有可能您可以利用提起非常上訴來去把這個最高檢變成死刑犯的這個逃死轉運戰喔所以您的被庭名人是留給被害人家屬還是會留給那些透過法律程式無限期在拖延執行的極惡之人所以請問這個被庭名人"},{"start":8290.251,"end":8306.799,"text":"你可不可以承諾未來不會提起非常上訴來達成實質廢死的目標因為這是您說要把這個悲天憫人還有要保護我們這個被害人的權益跟弱勢者的權益包委員這是兩件事情"},{"start":8307.099,"end":8330.757,"text":"我們對於被害人的保護是不遺餘力這是羅興司法的一塊我們一定要落實到底那對於非常上訴死刑犯的非常上訴是遵守113年宪判8號的判決的意義但是您覺得就是有被判處死刑的這些被害人這個加害人想當然而他絕對就是這個罪大惡極才會被判處死刑嘛"},{"start":8331.638,"end":8350.865,"text":"那所以你要怎麼去保護我們這些被害人的家屬我們也利用這個機會來說明我們是一個完整的一個程序走完但是我們絕對不會有所謂的廢死因為憲判也沒有說死刑是違憲的所以我們會把所有重進我們重進目前還有三件又判死刑了"},{"start":8356.147,"end":8376.584,"text":"不是沒有 我們法院還是希望但是我們的修正 我們的論告我們要更精緻還是希望說被庭名人如果您有姓陳為檢察總長的話針對您所提到的要保護被害人跟照顧弱勢家庭能夠真正的去落實而不是只是紙上的說法而已是 沒問題 是 謝謝"},{"start":8379.963,"end":8391.356,"text":"好 謝謝徐宇貞 徐委員 這個很有內涵的發言我看你跟北庭文志同道合 理念相近 我願意跟人家道歉一下來 接下來請李博義委員來發言李博義委員 李博義委員不在 有請范雲委員"},{"start":8410.759,"end":8412.342,"text":"有請徐備題名人有請備題名人"},{"start":8417.014,"end":8443.302,"text":"委員好徐備提名人好那我想我看到您的資歷您擔任檢察官是32年還是20幾年應該是20幾年因為中間有行政職中間有行政職那我想這應該是平均相當長的應該非常了解檢察官的文化對不對是那我想請問您覺得我們現在檢察官的職場已經性別平等了嗎"},{"start":8444.878,"end":8470.626,"text":"我們現在每一期招考的人數先講人數有時候女生會比男生還多然後我們的所有客觀的一個設備也都會考慮到這一個部分然後我們有若干的案件他侵害到女性的我們也都依法來辦理所以我們而且你看他只要提出申訴我們立刻就請專家進來我們成立審查教訓這個部分我們推行應該沒有遲滯"},{"start":8474.907,"end":8503.208,"text":"好 那從您的角度你覺得推行相關性別平等的措施法規都沒有延遲 都有該做的做那我今天想從不同的角度跟您對話因為您很可能就是就是成為我們未來檢查體系的最高負責人那所以就想跟您看因為我們性別方面的專家比較會看的是升遷就像你講的從基層來看我這邊不管是左邊右邊 這都是公開的資料"},{"start":8504.449,"end":8522.757,"text":"如果從地方檢察署的時候女性占比那真的接近一半了占比46%那高等檢察署變34最高檢察署剩23那另外從檢察官主任檢察官跟檢察長來看的話女性占比從46到36到14%就是全國檢察官考進來的"},{"start":8528.419,"end":8558.159,"text":"的確如同您講的接近1比1可是到更高等的機關高等的職位的女性卻會越來越少那這個其實就符合我們在性別跟職涯發展的研究上你看這個以一個金字塔來講上面的是職位越高那當然就是她的權利跟薪水越高這個會講到就是說對基層的檢察官來講她的女性可能會遇到一個所謂的玻璃天花板"},{"start":8559.18,"end":8571.734,"text":"玻璃天花板的意思就是你看不見可是它就在那裡讓你的身牽遇到阻礙這當然有很多各方面的因素不能夠直接歸咎於個人那我想給你看的是一個"},{"start":8574.137,"end":8594.273,"text":"研究莊玲如跟陳令芳都是性別研究的專家他們研究女檢察官的看到第一個有孕產不友善的職場環境那從今天就是訪談講到一位在坐月子回來上班的時候他就是沒有辦法有足夠沒有"},{"start":8595.434,"end":8623.492,"text":"適當的哺乳空間讓她覺得非常的狼狽在這過程中就是有就是乳汁噴出來讓她的衣服雖然她已經做足了準備那另外一邊呢也提到就是也是跟她整個的工作的空間沒有辦法讓她就是為了擠奶暫時中斷工作所以這讓女性檢察官可能會在工作跟孕產之間好像被迫二選一這是才是第一點"},{"start":8624.292,"end":8646.827,"text":"那第二點還有提到的您剛講好像很多規則很性別平等那可是有一些文化是隱形的譬如說這個受訪的人他講到說他想要爭取平等升遷可是主管會以很關心他為他好的立場說你如果調到外地後你的小孩誰來照顧呢然後這位受訪者說我很想訪問訪問長官"},{"start":8649.068,"end":8666.167,"text":"如果身牽的男生掉到外地的時候他的小孩又要誰來照顧為什麼這些問題只出在女生身上不會出在男性身上右邊這個也一樣女性檢察官被假設晚上無法出勤不能辦辱人勒索案件"},{"start":8666.927,"end":8682.752,"text":"這看起來好像是在照顧女性 為妳好可是這些重要的案件或者是說外派外地的工作最後如果都遇到這種為妳好的隱性歧視的話其實很可能限制女性檢察官的職涯發展"},{"start":8683.732,"end":8701.334,"text":"那最後一個就是女性檢察官的受訪的人也提到說跟男性法警合作上遇到的困擾譬如說右邊這個訪談說警察會要求我不要分給女檢察官盡量分給男檢察官因為他們覺得跟男檢察官比較好講話"},{"start":8702.615,"end":8728.624,"text":"左邊這位是說他雖然已經去了去外勤了從左後方的下車那可是法醫就是應該要遞件給他那可是卻遞件給法醫那這個就是法警雖然他下車的位置是比較重要的坐在右後方我想這也談到就是說好像男性法警有一個潛在的性別歧視以男性為主"},{"start":8730.425,"end":8751.383,"text":"當然就是我們凡事都要以法規為講CEDAW是我們台灣簽署的聯合國跟性別平等相關的公約它有明確講怎麼樣做到性別友善一個是司法各級決策職位的均等另外一個是培訓考試中應該消除性別成規定型觀念"},{"start":8752.043,"end":8769.48,"text":"還要納入性別平等的能力那還有呢應該要評估司法部門對性別平等問題的敏感度最後就是要有性別平等的改革包含就是方便照顧的工作時間和彈性工作的安排特別是對孕產期間的家長或女性"},{"start":8773.503,"end":8796.249,"text":"所以想問您,這也是學者提出來的軟硬體規劃、建制哺乳室還有各級人員如何有性別比例如果做不到的話可以檢討是什麼原因最後就是性別平權的教育因為時間的緣故,想請問被提名人您是不是支持要創造一個更為性別友善的職場環境"},{"start":8797.589,"end":8803.354,"text":"如果您支持的话上任后会提出哪些提升性别友善的政策跟具体措施呢"},{"start":8804.636,"end":8833.042,"text":"好 謝謝委員我完全贊同剛才委員所提點的這些內容我想宣導是絕對是要必要的那讓所有的同仁知道要尊重性別一切就是要平等的看待那職務的安排也要跨過不能有所謂的性別的考量我想這個是一定要做到的那我們的法規面的話也要去檢討如果有不滿足的我們一定要把它"},{"start":8833.622,"end":8851.265,"text":"修正好那第四個就硬體的設備剛才委員提到我據我當檢察長的經驗我們都有設我們都這個也是檢查的重點之一所以應該是不會但是委員剛才提到那些檢察官的抱怨我當檢察官這麼久也常常會聽到"},{"start":8852.086,"end":8873.542,"text":"因為外勤的關係這的確有一些不方便因為一出去我曾經早上10點鐘出去外勤到晚上9點11個小時在外面如果同樣的情景發生在女生的身上就會有剛才講到是不是有哺乳的問題啊或者接送小孩的問題啊這個等等都是問題我知道都會不方便那我們男生就是比較"},{"start":8876.684,"end":8891.086,"text":"被禮遇就是家裡的老婆會先犧牲掉所以我們大概就比較沒有後顧之憂那同樣女性的檢察官真的我就替她們覺得說她們真的很辛苦所以有時候家庭的資源就變得非常非常的重要"},{"start":8892.287,"end":8918.727,"text":"我想這些都是我們努力的剛才講的都是我們要努力的目標剛才那個委員又特別提到人數比例現在我們地檢署有五個檢察長是女性女性的同事我們22個地檢署有五個是女生你要說高也不算高但是已經是有佔一定的比例那再來就是最高檢最高檢都是比較資深的檢察官所以以當時他們的入局率女生本來就少"},{"start":8919.187,"end":8936.38,"text":"所以在最高檢那些資深的相對來講女生就會更少那你看地檢的話就已經很平均了所有的剛才委員提點我們一定會努力來改進那因為您講的就是您很認同可是有些你們做了那也許你們可以深入的了解就是說到底遇到的困難在哪裡"},{"start":8936.94,"end":8955.891,"text":"是性別平權教育可以加強呢還是就是說他們身牽上的確有像您剛講的遇到就是說育兒啊哺乳啊等等讓他整個的有機會的工作他一開始就沒有被考慮到我想這個我要再補充再一點我希望所有的檢察長跟主任這個話不能這樣講"},{"start":8958.132,"end":8975.719,"text":"我剛才委員所提到這個我們會去告訴我們的這些首長跟幹部不能這樣子說任何人要給他有相同的機會不能用這種理由來排斥他我希望沒有發生啦如果真的發生我們一定要稍微告誡他期待您當選後我們就繼續對話是是是謝謝"},{"start":8980.363,"end":8991.846,"text":"好 謝謝范雲委員的發言接下來請丁學忠委員丁學忠委員丁學忠委員不在再有請我們劉淑冰委員好 謝謝主席那有請徐備提名人請備提名人"},{"start":9013.254,"end":9021.484,"text":"在今天的口頭報告當中你有提到辦案不應該只是要追求定罪率更應該要有針對面對的錯案要有糾錯跟認錯的能力"},{"start":9028.132,"end":9035.698,"text":"本期就想要問你 你若成為檢察總長你個人將要善用非常上訴的權利想請問的是說如果有判決是違法取證或是估罪認定判決理由矛盾等冤錯的情形你會主動提起非常上訴嗎另外冤案就不會是一個個案你會在任內主動建立起冤錯案的盤點機制"},{"start":9054.515,"end":9064.595,"text":"並且加入到定期檢查的設計嗎那你剛才有這個想法就是說是不是你的想法裡面現在在法界裡面有具體公開的實際案例呢"},{"start":9067.005,"end":9088.63,"text":"好 各位委員報告 刑事訴訟法441條判決 確定判決如果有違背法令的話檢察總長德提起非常上次 這是法定的職權那只要說這個判決 這個判決他真的是違背法令那我們有義務你會主動嗎 因為這是你在報告中所提起來的"},{"start":9089.15,"end":9107.987,"text":"主動就是這樣你看那個案件量我不可能去海撈我們希望有當事人自己來申請或者是有民間團體來申請這個我們來起可以起這個頭否則我們如果知道我們當然會去主動去做好你就主動我就知道了那有這個盤點的機事你在你的報告當中其實有提到有"},{"start":9108.587,"end":9125.754,"text":"台高檢有一個有罪判決檢討小組他們會定期 他們甚至於在檢討的六十幾件裡面其中也有一件送到最高檢察署來審查是否提及非常上訴那我們這裡本身也有爭議性的死刑案件的審查小組那請問這部分你有沒有具體的像你剛剛那一件是什麼是你預計會提起來的嗎"},{"start":9127.735,"end":9140.729,"text":"我們這只有統計數據如果詳細的資料的話我們要再回給我想說你既然已經要做檢查總長應該這部分就應該有一些想法不然你不會提出這些主動的我們是有目前你公開了解都沒有嗎有沒有說哪一件事你覺得應該要做的這些事情"},{"start":9146.474,"end":9171.2,"text":"就有一件送來非常傷處因為我們當時就是得到消息的時候去拿資料是兩天前而已那你之後是不是給本刑警會官那件是什麼樣的資料可以嗎?可以可以好謝謝那我們繼續往下看另外我們知道本黨的問卷當中有針對無限抗告跟財的反覆措施這個爭議就有提問你那您對於司法院106年10月院會所做的這個羈押抗告改革制度當中你的看法是怎麼樣?"},{"start":9172.062,"end":9197.521,"text":"我們同意我們司法院這一個修正以後能夠在二審的抗告法院能夠直接進為裁定這樣也免得這個案子上上下下上上下下浪費偵查的時間這是要修法嗎對要修法我們同意所以那這邊你就你上去就修法我這樣講我修正一下這不是我能同意的我知道啦修法我們法務部的立場是同意的我們也都樂觀其成"},{"start":9200.004,"end":9215.56,"text":"那對無限次抗告跟更裁與憲政是不是也是有在考慮的一個範圍之內呢我想還沒修法以前檢察官的工作就是監督法院所做的裁定跟判決所以我們是公益的代表人那您的意見呢"},{"start":9216.721,"end":9221.104,"text":"我們同意抗告法院能夠直接就裁定大家就不用再爭執了我同意但是在還沒有修法以前站在檢察官的職責公益代表人的立場我們為了要發現真實我們當然會據理力爭"},{"start":9239.551,"end":9254.076,"text":"好 既然就是在說如果上級的抗告的這個法庭如果做自行裁決的話其實就已經可以解決很後面的問題嘛 對不對好 那我們希望說這部分呢不管是怎麼樣其實誰讓檢察總長我們都希望說這部分既然檢察署這邊有這個意見的話呢就應該往這邊慢慢去修訂是好 謝謝您"},{"start":9264.221,"end":9286.977,"text":"好 謝謝劉淑檳委員這個如果問答題我就打100分了但是這個還是要投票來 接下來有請我們邱惠露還是露露 妳說我念錯了我有教她尊重的那等一下我主席先做程序的宣告等一下我們林倩琪委員發言完以後先休息五分鐘來 請邱委員請好 有請徐備題名人有請備題名人"},{"start":9294.039,"end":9311.794,"text":"好 謝謝主席還有各位在場的先進 大家好那這個徐貝提名人 您好那我想請教您一件事 請問您在檢查系統已經耕耘多少年了 工作年資報告委員 耕耘聽起來很奇怪"},{"start":9312.975,"end":9338.685,"text":"那我時任檢察官大概超過25年然後再來就行政職行政職 好了解我覺得25年人生能有幾個25年是 沒錯所以25年真的是算是很基層的工作做很久是 真的是一個非常這個讓人家肯定而且呈現的履歷因為我覺得檢察官其實在我們的印象當中都是一個打擊罪惡的一個先鋒那我相信你們的血液當中應該也是充滿爭議感"},{"start":9340.466,"end":9355.157,"text":"是 我這個就秉持不敢好 那我現在想請教你一件事就是說你在檢察界已經有25年了嘛那我不知道有沒有要逃離滿天下但是我在想經過這25年的這個跟人家應對互動應該人脈非常的豐沛啦那我想請問你有沒有聽過馬玉文檢察官"},{"start":9363.846,"end":9392.557,"text":"馬玉文檢察官因為我服務的機關在中北部我不曉得馬玉文檢察官非常的有名他被人家簡稱叫做馬檢那為什麼他會那麼有名呢因為他說他經營檢調已經七年了所以他完全有獲取到柯文哲的秘密的檔案就是Excel檔裡頭有1500那馬檢真的是非常的神通廣大那不知道你這位真正的檢察官怎麼來看這個馬檢應該他算是假的檢察官"},{"start":9393.257,"end":9397.547,"text":"能夠取得這樣的資料那前提一定是已經偵查論公開了才會有這樣的讓他掌握到這些資料嘛"},{"start":9402.625,"end":9424.714,"text":"他個人講什麼話我沒有辦法評論但是我還是會強調我自己當檢察官25年我對於在偵查中洩露偵查的內容是非常非常的忌諱因為他會嚴重的影響到我偵查作為甚至於證據會滅失 當事人會串證那一方面也會侵害到當事人的訴訟"},{"start":9426.094,"end":9453.049,"text":"我已經掌握到了您對這個偵查大公開不公開的原則是信奉的所以我們一定會可是現在就是柯文哲主席的案件從去年前年就讓我們看到一個偵查大公開偵查亂公開偵查已經讓我們覺得說怎麼會看到這麼荒腔走板的一個司法劇情除了有馬玉文檢察官還有靜州刊檢察官啊 信靜明州刊啊你有聽過信靜明州刊這位檢察官嗎"},{"start":9454.718,"end":9481.758,"text":"沒有好 那我就告訴你他就是我們在業界在坊間非常有名的淨檢現在有兩個檢察官非常具有高知名度一個就叫馬檢一個叫淨檢那完全曝露了就是偵查大公開然後偵查大公開檢察官這邊放出風聲給媒體跟媒體形成了一個媒跟檢共生的一個環境那除此之外呢黨檢媒三位議題一直在砲轟大攻擊核彈式的攻擊在野黨的委員您覺得這樣合適嗎"},{"start":9484.44,"end":9511.553,"text":"剛才委員特別提到說檢察官放消息給這個媒體這個部分我還跟委員報告檢察官非常的辛苦上個禮拜還有一個北檢檢察官還送急診檢察官暗讀勞刑是拋棄身體健康我知道我有很多檢察官的朋友因為我也是法律出身的法官都是暗讀勞刑然後都是用他們的健康跟壽命在換得司法的正義所以在沒有確確的證據以前實在不一樣"},{"start":9512.593,"end":9535.289,"text":"馬簡新事件他經營7年信心200%可以說檢察官放給他的訊息是真的我想這件事可說公平時間也有限那我只您說您反對那如果有一天您成為檢察總長的時候希望您能夠整頓這個現象才能夠未來的行為呼應你現在的承諾那第二件事情就是那個好像檢察有一些檢察官為了升官發財他現在真的搭上"},{"start":9539.312,"end":9553.438,"text":"升官發財的直升機了他真的已經搭上升官發財的直升機了那他做了什麼行為以至於別人都搭不到這台升官發財的直升機但他卻搭上去了他到醫院去違法徵訊審慶金"},{"start":9556.115,"end":9584.434,"text":"那請問你對這個看法如何他說我去視察那根本假視察指明其實就是要去做不當詢問違法偵訊的動作嘛那布曉德你對這件事的看法如何報告委員這是具體個案是所有的證據的證據證明力證據能力跟證明力到底能不能被接受希望到法庭上去我覺得我們沒有講究證據力證明力因為已經退而求其辭到說"},{"start":9585.635,"end":9603.846,"text":"真相發見真實的義務發見真實能不能夠澄清這當然也是一個非常重要的議題但是已經沒有辦法去奢求真相只想要知道說當人權被侵害到這種程度的時候我們的最高我們的檢察總長對這件事的看法是什麼"},{"start":9604.887,"end":9615.061,"text":"包委員這是一個具體的個案案件也還沒有判決我記得新聞報導你好像提到說這並不違法然後人家問你說他是沒有違法但是我不要評論"},{"start":9617.301,"end":9623.445,"text":"沒有違法他都已經假視察知名然後跑去做違法詢問那沈慶金還出來講說他威脅我咬出柯文哲那你覺得這是一個那當場也沒有錄音那你覺得這是一個正當的詢問嗎這完全是踐踏在押被告的人權這完全是漠視正當法律程序啊我覺得不能夠以說這是個案"},{"start":9641.477,"end":9667.876,"text":"然後就迴避這麼犀利的提問我的提問就是說 像這種不當詢問如果你以後當檢察總長你不能夠說這是個案啊 避之唯恐不及啊因為個案就會變通案如果這個風氣敗壞到 個案就會變通案那變通案 那如果這是通案呢 你的看法呢事實上這一件後來也有行政調查 也做監督處分了不是 應該是說交給新北來做監督處分"},{"start":9669.285,"end":9680.022,"text":"處分 處分結果是什麼不當言 那就是不當的發言的部分不是 他們也有做處理了所以就是 已經有處分啦可是處分的結果"},{"start":9681.605,"end":9709.202,"text":"處分的結果檢評會送新北地檢署處理那結果出來了還沒有那我們希望這件事不要輕輕舉起最後輕輕放下因為我覺得這是司法的形象因為人民對司法的信任感已經其實非常的低了那任何一根駱駝任何一根稻草有可能會壓垮司法正義的駱駝這個部分我們還是要尊重新北地檢署依法處理"},{"start":9709.522,"end":9719.946,"text":"以法處理問題是他們如果管管相互呈現出來在人民眼前的都是一些偏袒的報告那你叫人民怎麼信服就像我們柯文哲主席210萬的錢政治獻金就被認為是匯款那其實對這也是透過你們司法之手所確認出來的一個法律見解"},{"start":9732.011,"end":9757.887,"text":"你不能夠說北檢辦出來的大家沒有質疑的空間因為你們這麼荒腔走板人民又沒有質疑的空間這個不會不會回到之前所謂的白色恐怖白色恐怖我真的沒有看過但是另外一種顏色的恐怖好像是現在正在進行那我現在只想期許你說如果有一天你能夠成為檢察總長對於我今天提出來的問題不當詢問不當詢問還有呢就是"},{"start":9761.989,"end":9789.465,"text":"什麼叫做視察你自己也回答說過去20年從來沒有一個人到醫院去視察過那當然他到現在還是沒有辦個例子他說他去視察根本不是一個例子那只是藉口所以從以前到現在根本沒有視察過鄰居園的那個例子根本可以掛單為什麼可以掛單因為那只是藉口他明明就是想去不正訊問的他明明就是想去把那個看能不能軟化省慶金軟的不行就用微波利藥"},{"start":9790.365,"end":9808.523,"text":"然後讓他咬出柯文哲這個是個案沒有錯這個是個案沒有錯但是他的判決結果其實已經出來了你現在出來評價其實你也不會影響到司法的公正心因為案件是不可能一審就判決確定他會再繼續上訴到二審還是屬於未判決確定的具體個案"},{"start":9811.966,"end":9832,"text":"好 沒有問題 沒有問題 你如果有一天變成檢察總長你的下面的人如果做了這些事難道你也不處理嗎 視而不見 從而不聞這種遵守法律程序一定會要求各級的檢察長一定要實質的做到我真的讀了法律20年啦 我也是法律背景的我讀了法律20年啦 我現在覺得說一些冠冕堂皇的話呢 都只出現在教科書啦"},{"start":9836.903,"end":9855.298,"text":"無罪推定在教科書有被現實的檢察官現實世界的檢察官操作下去就變成有罪推論嚴格證明法則在教科書上有啦被檢察官操作下去就變成不用證明法則啦210萬都可以變成匯款啦然後偵查不公開到了現實世界變成偵查亂公開啦所以我覺得您講的一口漂亮的話"},{"start":9864.986,"end":9875.532,"text":"那這口漂亮的話是不是以後只能夠在教科書上回味追思而已我們的現實世界會有人展現這麼高風亮節的情操給我們看嗎這是我沉痛的發聲現實世界還有這些高風亮節的檢察官能夠幫我們守護無罪推薦原則偵查不公開原則嚴格證明原則嗎"},{"start":9890.444,"end":9912.985,"text":"我們這樣的檢察官還很多所以你的意思就是一顆老鼠死毀了整鍋粥嘛沒有這樣子的話大家都很努力可是我們百姓看到的就是這樣啊我們百姓看到的就是說司法怎麼可以被操弄成這樣的程度好我們來講所以如果以後你成為一個檢察總長你要怎麼改善這些惡形惡狀的惡檢"},{"start":9917.897,"end":9936.886,"text":"偵查的過程中 擁有一點點的瑕疵但談不上惡行惡狀我想這樣的形容詞加註在我們檢察官的身上我覺得我們不能接受檢察官暗讀勞刑這麼辛苦 還被評價成這樣當然委員所指教的部分我們一定會要求各級檢察長一定要實質"},{"start":9937.346,"end":9956.054,"text":"我也是個案在講那幾個檢察官林俊炎這幾個檢察官我並沒有在講全台灣的檢察官全台灣的檢察官當然大家都是盡忠職守但是真的被那幾顆老鼠屎搞得人家對他們有一些誤解我自己也是法律背景出身的檢察官我非常尊重因為他們是司法爭議最後一道防線那個"},{"start":9958.075,"end":9961.199,"text":"法官我更是尊重因為他們是司法正義的守門員我也沒有想要誣蔑他們但是這一兩年看起來的劇情就是讓我們覺得檢調系統還有法院系統真的有幾顆老鼠屎 敗壞風氣我講的也是個案"},{"start":9972.952,"end":9979.356,"text":"好 謝謝邱委員感謝你我們對台灣民眾黨充分尊重所以你這時間特別多我們對被提名人我們給他充分的期待讓他有機會來這裡給我們詢問不然你跟妹妹你如果沒有跟他討論一次我們現在休息"},{"start":9999.162,"end":10011.87,"text":"我剛是宣誓程序是林建啟委員之後現在慎重的邀請我們這個專業又美麗的林建啟委員上台來發言"},{"start":10019.878,"end":10028.209,"text":"好 謝謝我們主席莊昭偉我請我們本席請最高檢察署檢查總長被提名人我們請主任檢察官"},{"start":10035.325,"end":10052.299,"text":"本席今天就幾個問題的實務運作來這邊跟您做個討論那麼第一個部分是有關於檢查一體那當然檢查一體其實最重要就是維持偵查一致性的一個指揮體系但是整個制度很重要的也是要強調檢察官應該要獨立來行使職權"},{"start":10057.703,"end":10075.132,"text":"這兩者之間呢長期有一些沒有辦法被說清楚的灰色地帶那到底呢是應該依法獨立還是事實上常常讓人感覺上命下從那麼實際上呢主任檢察官檢察長對個案的一個"},{"start":10075.792,"end":10091.803,"text":"指揮監督有沒有影響到個別檢察官的一個判斷甚至在實質上產生一些決策的壓力那本席這邊請教那目前在檢查體系當中上級對下級的一個指揮監督有沒有明確的界限"},{"start":10092.583,"end":10120.424,"text":"那在什麼樣子的情況下可以介入個案還是是不是都有一些書面的記錄或者是可追溯的一個機制那第二個部分是如果基層檢察官對上級的指示有不同的法律見解的時候那目前的制度有沒有足以保障他能夠表達其意義還是最終都要服從指揮那第三個部分是那您是否支持更透明的一個制度"},{"start":10121.184,"end":10144.549,"text":"甚至在一定的條件下對外揭露以避免外界質疑看不見的手再介入檢調偵辦那這邊一個說明就補充人民真正關心的不是法學理論上的檢查一體而是在具體的案件當中決定權在誰的手上有沒有受到不當干預那這個問題如果沒有辦法解決"},{"start":10146.429,"end":10162.247,"text":"檢查體系常常都很難建立真正的法律的一個信賴所以您的看法呢好 謝謝委員我從第三個問題來回答委員那剛才委員提到說檢查議題是不是可以由外界來監督我跟委員報告不太可能"},{"start":10162.768,"end":10187.508,"text":"因為偵查中的案件是由外界來監督啦是某種程度的一個揭露跟大家不是 因為柯委員報告偵查中的案子一旦揭露就是洩露偵查中的秘密這大家都會有信心沒有在要求洩露不是要求洩露公開也不行你如何來讓大家能夠理解這個一定要對 整個法律體系的一個信心這個一定要到案件確定以後"},{"start":10188.128,"end":10208.342,"text":"判決確定或者是處分確定以後有人陳情我們調卷來看來聽錄音帶或者是說監察院來彈劾應該是這樣本席這邊提到的很重要一點就是說上命下從然後上命如果下不從有不同的法律見解"},{"start":10209.102,"end":10225.796,"text":"那這樣子的一個狀況如何讓大家來建立對司法體系的一個信心應該阻止是這樣本席接下來才會再跟您講所謂揭露的這個問題所以上面這個部分的主題不是在所謂的揭露而是上面下從檢查一體的一個狀況"},{"start":10227.557,"end":10254.392,"text":"所謂的檢查議題最主要就是要發揮團體的戰力也就是說要統一的見解以及怕有濫刑起訴的問題或者是一種違法不當的問題這都是裡面會隱藏的很多民眾也會要求說檢察官你怎麼可以濫刑起訴檢察官你怎麼可以違法偵查等等這些的過程我們檢察長基於督導的責任他必須要能夠去了解"},{"start":10255.112,"end":10272.768,"text":"本席這邊可能還是把問題導引回我們最主要的諸子啦你要不要從第一個部分來做一個討論你說上級對下級的指揮監督那有沒有一些書面的記錄跟可追溯的機制其實本席第一個第一題講的是你們內部的問題內部體系的問題還沒有談到這個民眾對你們的一些你會介入的這個問題"},{"start":10280.114,"end":10297.742,"text":"如果被監督的檢察官他有意見雙方一定要留下書面資料我要動用所謂的成績權或者是移轉權我全部都要用書面下達然後檢察官如果有不同意見一樣用書面表達留在卷裡面這就是"},{"start":10298.562,"end":10315.588,"text":"就是作為以後查考的一個依據所以這個是有一個機制的所以那他如果有這樣一個意義的表達那對於個案的一個介入程度那這個部分是不是有比較明確的一個機制或者是比較明確的一個界限"},{"start":10316.653,"end":10331.648,"text":"如果他無法接受的時候真的首長是可以動用所謂的成績權或者是移轉權但是我們相關的規定都寫得很清楚這要非常的慎重因為這個是會有爭議的那我們通常的做法會"},{"start":10332.629,"end":10351.536,"text":"邀集相關的一個主任檢察官檢察官一起來討論就所有的問題拿出來討論大家來尋求一個共識我想最後是一定要做決定的但是不管是怎麼樣這個決定絕對不是政治意義的問題這個都會留下資料將來都可以調件來回復原狀來討論說這樣當時的決定檢察長所做的懲濟權或者是遺傳權合不合法"},{"start":10359.335,"end":10379.76,"text":"我們就是說如果案件有一些爭議發生的時候我們有回溯的一個機制但是在過程當中我們會留下書面資料好那這是本席提供給你可能在你們內部需要就這個部分就是上面下蟲的這個區塊整個在這個中間的一個灰色地帶你如何去處理本席這邊提供給你這樣一個這個問題的參考"},{"start":10382.401,"end":10396.367,"text":"那第二部分就是你剛才一直比較關心的你一直往這個方向走也就是說偵查不公開跟媒體洩密的這個問題那我想這個其實是大眾都特別有感而且我相信很多的委員剛才前一位委員其實也談到啦"},{"start":10397.668,"end":10416.196,"text":"那你如何來偵查不公開最主要就是保障案件的偵辦您剛才也是提到那當事人的權益那但是呢你要提供一個強化內控落實保密教育的一個措施但實務上我們社會的觀感經常都是在這個偵查的時候就會有邊偵查邊放話的一個情況而且很多細節是鉅細靡遺"},{"start":10422.058,"end":10436.051,"text":"雖然你們一直在講說這個不公開可是本席大概觀察了十幾年經常都是本席所看到的這個狀況邊偵查就邊公開我相信整個社會是很有感的所以本席這邊來請教那第一目前對於偵查資訊的這個外洩"},{"start":10438.453,"end":10459.773,"text":"多數都來自於檢查體系的內部那檢查署是不是針對這個部分可以進行調查統計與追溯你認為呢然後本席認為有統整才會有歸納才會有機會來找到破網那第二個部分是您如何來強化如果您有機會當上總長的話如何來強化內控的機制那如果"},{"start":10460.313,"end":10478.495,"text":"目前違法偵查公開的一個成本過低的話呢不公開的成本過低制度再完整也沒有效那未來你是不是支持加重泄密責任第二個部分是能不能夠建立嚴格的懲戒機制那你對這樣子有沒有什麼樣的具體修法的主張"},{"start":10480.356,"end":10496.063,"text":"我完全贊成我們委員剛才所提示的內容我想這個偵查不公開真的是對我們來講殺傷力很大我說我當檢察官從來無法想像怎麼會有人在偵查的時候就把東西洩露出去所以我不認為所有的問題是出在檢察官身上"},{"start":10500.905,"end":10504.406,"text":"因為我認為這中間接觸到那在你們可控的範圍內那檢察署對於這個部分如果你以後有機會當總長的話那對於調查統計跟追蹤然後統整跟歸納您的看法是如何然後第二部分是本席講的比較具體的是那您對於加重泄密責任跟建立嚴懲的機制的一個修法的具體"},{"start":10524.293,"end":10542.922,"text":"這個我們可以會後我們跟我們法務部這邊來做通盤的來討論我想部長也是非常非常的重視這一個區塊我們也很想努力的去重演來偵辦這樣的案子但是事實上會遇到一些困難但是有困難我們還是要去克服我會要求"},{"start":10543.923,"end":10564.605,"text":"這個方式可能要再更具體一點好不好然後修法的方向跟修法的具體方案那希望如果您有機會在這個位置上我想這個是民眾長期以來非常關心的一個問題好謝謝林倩琪委員林委員發言跟貝提姆委員看起來是志同道合我們現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":10838.001,"end":10838.021,"text":"我們繼續開會"},{"start":10868.988,"end":10874.092,"text":"好 我們繼續開會我們接下來請洪玉祥委員來做發言好 主席好有請徐貝提名人有請徐貝提名人"},{"start":10890.266,"end":10914.233,"text":"因為我覺得這個很重要所以我先放下經濟召委我請呂委員代為主持問題很簡單大概就幾個問題第一個來講的話就是法庭直播我看你的問卷陽光是防腐劑接著又說陽光太過烈會灼傷法治所以你到底支持不支持即時轉播直播"},{"start":10917.285,"end":10944.173,"text":"保留因為現在目前司法院所做的延遲直播播放的話是有容錯的空間以免說直播的時候會影響到當時所有參與訴訟的人的一個權利甚至於政人可能因為我的看法是這樣子像我們憲法法庭我們兩個在質詢朝野黨團協商我們都是立法院公佈系統憲法法庭都是直播"},{"start":10944.758,"end":10962.283,"text":"包委員 憲法法庭討論的是違憲的審查不是實質事實的審查所以我們立法院比較不重要我們黨團協商不重要不是不是我們如果討論到可能當事人的生活的事實的時候美國也有啊"},{"start":10965.063,"end":10974.277,"text":"其實延遲播放也是很多國家的一個立法例也不是沒有啦我會這樣講是說不要害怕不是害怕因為這個東西呢我就覺得就是應該要因為當時我們的"},{"start":10980.966,"end":11008.388,"text":"這個立法的這個三讀這樣修正雖然是交給司法院也給你們一些權但是他把它閹割成這樣我是覺得不太開心因為民意75%幹嘛站在民意的對立面好了解你的立場下一個這一堆人在問那我也不想再問什麼東西我只是想說像在民間司改會久任偵查大公開法務部調查報告遲遲不出這個出了嗎"},{"start":11010.959,"end":11011.62,"text":"法務部有出嗎有沒有應該是沒有"},{"start":11018.67,"end":11040.809,"text":"還沒有嗎 好 沒關係就是說如果你上任了 假設你可以上任了那會不會徹底清查並且移送過去一年所有涉及違反偵查不公開的檢方人員也就是說我也希望就是建立一個偵查資訊外洩的專案通報跟年度的一個公開公報就好像我們企業都會做ESG啦 做這些的"},{"start":11043.731,"end":11058.977,"text":"可是我們這裡也都會有懲處的件數我們都有我有上去查過 很少啊寥寥可數 所以表示你們都是偵查 不會公開不是不是 我們也有處分的人113也有18位 114也有11位 總共29位北檢都沒有"},{"start":11064.355,"end":11086.55,"text":"這是一個統計數據啦如果詳細的內容的話還要再講因為我想這也是民眾的觀感我都很簡單因為我也不是法律人我就是一個新科立委然後從外界的角度來看司法的不信任就是我們所有的這個民意調查裡面的第一名那檢察官的這個這樣的體制我們也希望你也可以這麼發最後最後我最後一個問題"},{"start":11088.956,"end":11098.047,"text":"外部監督這件事情就是2017施改國是會要求檢審會加入外部委員那你支持會不支持"},{"start":11099.901,"end":11121.47,"text":"我們檢審會的組成它的功能它是我們內部人事考機跟我們的書類的審查外部委員他進來的話他也不了解我們內部的一些這個為什麼會這樣講因為我也在民間產業公司待過所以我們的通常獎勵升遷人事審議甚至我們人評會等等的考察我們都有外部委員"},{"start":11122.759,"end":11146.111,"text":"而且我們的要求就是三分之一那如果像我們採購法公開招待也是三分之一的外部人員所以三分之一內部還三分之二外部如果你是重大採購所以我的意思是說這個其實對你們檢審會避免讓人家外界官官相護是一個很重要的我是覺得你可以去思考如果你有上任的話因為這個是我想看到的好不好"},{"start":11146.411,"end":11152.116,"text":"謝謝謝謝洪裕祥委員接下來請洪孟凱委員發言主席謝謝麻煩請徐備提名人我請徐備提名人委員好徐備提名人你好我就直接請教因為外界對於我們現在偵查中的案件到底偵查不公開是"},{"start":11175.56,"end":11182.691,"text":"我們要捍衛的還是他是笑話一場這真的是過去不管什麼案件藍綠都有藍綠白都有就是"},{"start":11183.803,"end":11206.17,"text":"媒體雜誌可以到之後變成是說都了解說辦案中間的一個簡訊過程不管是之前柯文哲案件就有這樣的狀況或是像我們本院委員林黛華委員她的案件在偵查過程當中也有爆出這些什麼簡訊然後到最後實質的也確實影響林黛華委員在高雄的一個市長的初選的一個狀況"},{"start":11207.17,"end":11235.479,"text":"但不管怎麼樣本席現在就事論述我想問的是說你對於偵查不公開這件事情你的態度跟立場以及你要怎麼捍衛我們一定會要求各級就是台高檢的一個督導小組跟地檢的檢討小組一定要落實他們的功能而且只要是有類似像這麼大的案子一定要分案偵辦這都是口號嘛可是我現在要問的是說事實上就是要這樣做如果有機會你上任之後你會不會去查本席剛剛講到的這些案件到底是誰洩的密"},{"start":11236.719,"end":11245.815,"text":"如果我上任我不可能自己去查你會不會要求成立專案小組去查給國人交代給國人報告一定要把結果給"},{"start":11247.799,"end":11275.647,"text":"在不違反偵查不公開的情況之下當然現在違法偵查不公開是已經違反了而且狀況就是我們外界為什麼大家會變成是說每個禮拜好像看新聞報導然後就可以更新案件進度然後就搞得好像是那個記者直接就在檢察官辦公室一樣所以我們都懷疑說檢察官辦公室有沒有被滲透那當然檢察官勿枉勿縱這是我們過去大家都支持"},{"start":11276.047,"end":11303.528,"text":"可是重點在於是說現在事實擺在眼前嘛受害者藍綠白都有啊所以本席才想問說剛剛舉的這至少這兩個例子或說其他的重大案件真的有偵查公開的狀況你成立專案小組來去做釐清讓國人知道事實真相可以做到嗎可以好 謝謝我們本席等著看那再來第二個部分喔我想要確認一下因為您過去有擔任過這個檢察官的一個相關資歷"},{"start":11306.348,"end":11331.481,"text":"詐騙大家深惡痛絕可是往往國人會有個迷思就是說為什麼好像有雙重標準或說這個比例不一樣就我拿一個最基本的例子有沒有太子集團幫忙洗錢的會計說15萬元交保沒有人能夠接受當然他後續要怎麼起訴或後續要怎麼樣的一個求刑那個是另外可是當國人看到"},{"start":11333.107,"end":11341.238,"text":"幾億的案件卻只有短短少少的金額交保的時候對比其他的幾千萬元的交保金還限制出境"},{"start":11342.397,"end":11366.046,"text":"掛什麼電子腳鐐等等的那你會不會覺得說在這個案這種案件上面持續出來其實會讓國人加深對於檢調的不信任包委員委員非常的清楚我們的整個的制度啊一個人的交保金額是涉及到他的經濟能力他涉案逃亡逃亡的可能性或者是說有相關對對對所以每個人個案都不一樣不是因為你未來要擔任這樣的一個職務所以說當然對於整個檢調體系"},{"start":11371.548,"end":11386.665,"text":"的公信力捍衛你就要有一個把關啊所以本席想要請教的是如果說越來越多詐騙集團讓國人的心目中印象都是重罪輕放或說重罪輕保那這樣子是不是會讓國人不夠信任"},{"start":11387.919,"end":11406.913,"text":"我想國人會有這樣的感覺的話 我們只能說我們的宣導不夠可是交保他本來就是確定他將來會在申審的時候會出庭 將來執行不會跑掉那跟他的罪行將來判刑是沒有關係的本席換另外一個角度來請教就是說我們現在也看到其他國家針對說詐騙 針對這種詐騙的狀況譬如新加坡"},{"start":11411.516,"end":11438.113,"text":"他有這個有邊形的一個制度要來納入那對於檢察官來講就檢察官其實是捍衛公平正義的很重要的一環如果說我們現在也希望能夠降低詐騙的一個數目或是降低詐騙的犯罪的話未來有沒有考慮你支不支持能夠用更積極的方式來去對這一些加害者做求償就求刑或求償這一次的這一次我們那個詐"},{"start":11440.194,"end":11463.335,"text":"就是我們詐騙判罪妨礙條例因為大院的支持我們把刑度都提高這就是其中一個我們的公司協定 詐騙還是持續有嗎下降了 它的確下降了金額跟件數都下降了一天還是有一億到兩億多的詐騙金額嘛那本席現在問的是說除了刑度提高除了罰金加重之外你支不支持可以用更積極有效的方式"},{"start":11464.416,"end":11487.877,"text":"參考國外的例子或是怎麼樣的方式就是我們大家一起來努力重點在於是什麼重點本席跟你的立場是一致的就我們不要讓詐騙在台灣猖獗氾濫嘛至於剛才其實委員我們在這裡也討論過很多次的就是有關邊形其實新加坡不是只有邊形而已它還是有很多的配套措施那不是只有單就這一個"},{"start":11488.317,"end":11497.165,"text":"所以這些配套都需要行政部門來做但本席現在問的是您知不支持用更積極的方式政府尋求更積極的方式來對付詐騙集團讓詐騙集團"},{"start":11499.878,"end":11518.877,"text":"付出更高額的犯罪成本進一步的減低他想要在台灣犯罪的可能性因為委員設定的這個更積極的比較不是那麼明確我很難回答是好或不好我要消極一點你就可以因為我不曉得說我這樣回答"},{"start":11519.477,"end":11544.583,"text":"因為你不是很精確 我回答就有點不曉得要怎麼回答因為沒有在挖陷阱本席現在在講的其實是一個態度問題我們絕對 斗公你如果說現在好即便我們修法要修 打詐是法 打詐無法都修了但重點在於是說現在一天打詐儀表板還是有一億多兩億多的詐騙金額嘛也因此本席才講到的是說"},{"start":11545.854,"end":11559.847,"text":"看起來打仗有成效有天花板那如果說現在罰越多或是判越重但是大家還是不怕那就變成是說詐騙集團他還是在這邊猖獗但每天還是有人受害啊所以我才想是說那有沒有更積極的方式邊形可能是一種"},{"start":11560.928,"end":11586.584,"text":"可能有其他的方法那我們要去思考是怎麼樣能夠更積極有效現在目前台高捷一直在推所謂的預警機制現在已經有12家還是3家的銀行跟我們成立這就是更積極的方式之一啊這個我們在推 已經在推所以本席問的是說你支不支持更積極政府應該採取更積極的方式來打擊詐騙嚇阻犯罪這個預警的支持我們絕對支持我們要更積極的作為這個絕對是"},{"start":11587.805,"end":11603.121,"text":"好 謝謝我們一起努力我希望的是讓詐騙能夠在台灣降低甚至讓他們知道是說敢來台灣犯罪你就付出應有的代價當然 謝謝謝謝洪孟凱委員我知道洪孟凱委員一直要推編刑你的編刑你如果加一個遊街示眾我就幫你支持了來 接下來請"},{"start":11611.287,"end":11623.292,"text":"陳清榮委員陳清榮委員陳清榮委員不在鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在來有請王安祥委員來發言請徐倍庭名人"},{"start":11638.41,"end":11656.465,"text":"委員好我今天問這一題就是有關於羈押無限抗告的部分常常我們看到羈押的裁定 上一層意見不一的時候常常會發生這種無限抗告的狀況其實在司法院106年10月11號也開過164年的院會也通過了這個草案"},{"start":11660.988,"end":11680.756,"text":"那其實在我們那個的問卷裡面啊其實被評審員也有回答了那我不曉得是不是可以利用這個機會再跟我們一些我看你好像是支持這個支持 支持就是說我們要做一些修正也就是上級法院自為裁定嘛對對對如果抗告法院能夠自為裁定的話那這個有關於羈押的部分就確定了"},{"start":11681.576,"end":11693.713,"text":"那該有的偵查作為就不會中斷我想這是樂觀其成不要上上下下一旦發回我們當然就要表示意見那當然就會有這個可能性發生那我非常贊成這個草案對我看到貝林園這幾項不管是落實"},{"start":11697.297,"end":11716.617,"text":"正當的程序或是跟國際的接軌或者是可以縮短公共利益或正常的時效基本上都非常支持因為我剛剛看前面委員也有提到這件事那我不曉得貝提琵如果您上任的話您要推動的程序或者是可能一些法制的程序您會怎麼做"},{"start":11717.457,"end":11724.841,"text":"因為這個主管機關是司法院那司法院會寫行政院的時候我們也會表示意見所以您沒有要主動來做這件事情嗎"},{"start":11734.646,"end":11760.421,"text":"這個是法務部的法令的修訂是法務部的事情那當然如果詢問到最高檢的意見的話我一定會適時的表達意見剛剛也有很多人提到這個所謂的這個偵查公開的部分那是不是有一點時間還是跟您再請教一下這個對目前這個偵查大公開的狀況啊你的意見是怎麼樣要怎麼樣來防止這個事情繼續的發生謝謝委員"},{"start":11762.102,"end":11787.297,"text":"我想偵查不公開絕對是為了保護偵查的進行順利有助於事實的反傳然後對於被告的權益的保障受公平審判的權益這個絕對是無庸置疑的所以我也很難想像檢察官在偵查的過程中絕對沒有理由會把偵查中的東西先提早丟出去因為這個會妨礙到他偵查的進行"},{"start":11789.878,"end":11807.764,"text":"以及證據有可能會滅失當事證人可能會串證所以這個對檢察官來一點好處都沒有所以我會嚴格的要求我們的台高檢的這個督導的小組以及地檢的一個監導小組一定要落實發揮他的功用"},{"start":11808.804,"end":11826.153,"text":"遇到類似這個情況嚴重的要主動來分案成立所謂的小組來追查是相關的有可能洩漏的管道我們希望能夠全面去防堵這個事你也知道現在司法公信力受到很大的侵害我想我們在學校教書"},{"start":11829.955,"end":11857.617,"text":"怎麼要教學生啊 我想大家都是從這個法律正統科班出身我覺得這個可能希望未來如果您當這個能夠順利的通過的話一定要針對這個部分要努力的來做一些改善好 感謝好 謝謝好 謝謝王安祥委員接下來請楊瓊英楊瓊英 楊瓊英委員不在蔡春綢蔡春綢蔡春綢委員不在"},{"start":11859.04,"end":11859.404,"text":"今天就繼續了"},{"start":11862.467,"end":11886.885,"text":"我們所有登記發言的委員都已發言完畢 詢答結束那委員質詢時要求提供的相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本聯席會那委員蔡其昌 蘇巧慧 黃婕 李柏毅 王美惠所提書面質詢均列入記錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面來做答覆"},{"start":11891.974,"end":11893.302,"text":"再查一下,我們再等一下喔"},{"start":11946.016,"end":11946.577,"text":"哎 阿倫"},{"start":11953.254,"end":11957.362,"text":"其他委員現在還在有的在別的委員會在質詢請官員也稍待"},{"start":11984.336,"end":12001.567,"text":"報告聯席會 院會交付審查總長之請提名徐錫祥為最高檢察署檢察總長 請同意案業已完成審查來做如下的決議本案審查完略 依立法院職權刑事法第29條第3項的規定於4月20號擬拒審查報告提請院會來公決請問在場各位委員有一"},{"start":12010.112,"end":12035.376,"text":"沒有的話我們就通過那院會進行統一權行使的時候由召集委員莊瑞雄來做說明那關於本院各黨團對被提名人資格及適任性所提的書面問題以及總統府秘書長韓富舊被提名人所提出的相關資料均列入記錄刊登公報本次會議我們到此結束現在散會謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"168376","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168376","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7c7959ab94dd6887ed16b10bbffbc7f67775daf2063192877218123113ebae4d35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"11:20:51 - 11:31:20","影片長度":"00:10:29","會議時間":"2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部部長李洋列席就「如何落實全民運動、協助學校專項運動發展及運動科學發展成效之檢討等議題」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-09","start_time":"2026-04-09T11:20:51+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-09T11:31:20+08:00","duration":629,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.08159375,"end":1.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.53284375,"end":1.5834687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.181593750000001,"end":9.852218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.290968750000001,"end":10.915343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.652843750000002,"end":17.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.42909375,"end":18.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.20096875,"end":25.191593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.74846875,"end":59.110343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.414093750000006,"end":74.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.53409375000001,"end":82.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.70159375,"end":83.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.47784375,"end":161.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.18284375000002,"end":176.94846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.26909375000002,"end":193.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.67159375,"end":202.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.69971875000002,"end":259.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.97346875,"end":273.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.70971875000004,"end":287.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.00284375,"end":289.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.57659375000003,"end":288.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.26846875,"end":316.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.16721875,"end":349.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.30534375,"end":351.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.35159375,"end":353.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.30471875,"end":366.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.70784375000005,"end":368.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.37846875,"end":391.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.73346875000004,"end":396.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.66096875000005,"end":417.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.51409375000003,"end":419.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.22284375000004,"end":492.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.94971875000005,"end":493.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.20284375000006,"end":516.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.96284375,"end":524.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.9109687499999,"end":553.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.1553437499999,"end":568.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.0390937500001,"end":570.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.0134687500001,"end":573.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.72596875,"end":575.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.8103437500001,"end":577.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.10096875,"end":580.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.74596875,"end":590.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.5378437500001,"end":594.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.70159375,"end":599.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.1059687500001,"end":621.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.0984687499999,"end":622.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.4697187500001,"end":628.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.49846875,"end":626.7178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.1059687500001,"end":627.71346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.95,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長有請部長"},{"start":16.653,"end":35.139,"text":"委員早安部長早安我作為一個原住民的立法委員我非常的樂見運動部的成立其實我們也是為了提升整個國家的運動文化成立了運動部其中其實我非常重視全民運動署"},{"start":36.539,"end":58.626,"text":"因為我認為全民運動署是整個國家運動文化轉型的重要關鍵也是產業發展的一個基礎那更是我們很多原住民孩子投入運動之後他未來的職涯發展很重要的一個關鍵所以在這邊我很期待的就是未來投入運動的原住民孩子他"},{"start":59.806,"end":82.809,"text":"運動生涯結束後或者他畢業之後那他能夠有工作所以在這邊我想請教一下因為我知道運動部成立以來有很多職缺都還沒有補時對吧部長跟委員您報告那目前來講到年底的部分整個運動部包含全民運動署大概禁用率會達大概七成好"},{"start":83.607,"end":101.956,"text":"七成其實還是讓我感到很憂心因為這是一個很重要的工作要有人來帶領底下的大家一起打仗那您才有兵啊所以我也知道您目前非常的辛苦因為運動部應該很多職缺都還沒有補時對不對"},{"start":103.217,"end":121.01,"text":"那我知道運動部底下有三大行政法人國訓中心運動科學中心還有運產中心也就是國家運動產業發展中心那在這個部分呢我也知道就是董事長已經出來了"},{"start":121.75,"end":140.437,"text":"那也在準備中那我看到他的目標是落實全民運動建構共享的運動環境提升舉辦國際大型賽會能力的以及凝建度還有跨部會合作整合資源協力推動跨域合作創新促進運動產業及科技發展我在這邊就是要特別透過質詢來提醒"},{"start":148.32,"end":176.535,"text":"因为我知道在这个筹备过程中我们会运用到很多很多的人力的招募那我在这里就是让部长您知道一下因为我们原住民的族人在我们目前国家整体国人的比例已经来到2.7%那其实这个2.7说实在很少可是我们去看一下以我们的宗旨来讲"},{"start":177.435,"end":192.604,"text":"原住民的中職選手佔40%那這次打的經典賽WBC原住民的選手佔57% 將近六成那如果我們看2024的奧運參加的原住民運動員有兩成 20%奪牌的是25% 兩成五"},{"start":202.799,"end":225.021,"text":"所以2.7%的原住民人口在我們整個國家的運動員或者是賽事上面其實都展現了一個非常驚人的比例所以我在這邊就是特別要提醒因為運動產業的主體就是運動員我希望我們招募的人就是提供給這些運動員"},{"start":227.003,"end":250.694,"text":"那決策的成績呢我也希望要有運動員的聲音這就是為什麼賴總統特別為我們選了一個兩面奧運金牌的一個運動選手來擔任我們的運動部部長所以我也提醒部長不要忘記那既然我們的國家隊有那麼多的原住民甚至打一半我也希望"},{"start":251.374,"end":273.047,"text":"在這個決策層不能夠沒有原住民這個是我的一個提醒那不曉得部長您的意見如何跟委員您報告那這個原住民族的部分我們絕對會非常看重那也跟委員您報告那非常感謝您對於我們運動部的人士以及這個原住民族的重視那這一點上面我們絕對會支持原住民族"},{"start":274.309,"end":287.281,"text":"所以我在這邊就是特別希望說針對這個國家運動產業發展中心的編制他的職位他的任務他的功能有沒有辦法到辦公室討論或提供書面說明"},{"start":288.055,"end":314.833,"text":"可以 這部分我們可以好 可以那謝謝那接下來我是想要請教一個問題因為部長你應該很清楚就是運動部成立以來很多很多的業務其實不要說你們特別是我們因為我們也不太知道跟過去的教育部的體育署現在跟教育部到底有怎麼樣的一個分工我們也不是很了解但是我舉這個例子來講"},{"start":316.394,"end":341.592,"text":"我們現在有很多的學校在反應因為過去在教育部體育署他有一個補助計畫叫做山野教育推廣計畫那這個山野教育推廣計畫過去學校去辦登山體驗可以最高補助五萬如果呢他們有所謂的課程所謂的課程就是例如登山教育加環境教育或者"},{"start":341.892,"end":367.959,"text":"登山教育加探索教育或登山教育加環境教育加探索教育都可以最高可以補助到12萬但是呢今年度這個計畫看不見了所以學校也不知道該怎麼辦可是呢今天你們的運動部的專報裡面我們可以看到也有寫推廣山林運動但是這裡頭呢就是提到有國家公園署"},{"start":368.599,"end":395.853,"text":"有林保署有園民會甚至連交通部都有提到那我們就不知道說到底現在那些學校他們長期以來當時我們行政院推廣的向山致敬衍生而來的登山教育課程那現在到底該怎麼辦是斷吹了嗎還是一場誤會那我就不曉得說到底還有沒有部長"},{"start":396.673,"end":416.633,"text":"跟委員您報告那這部分其實我們是去年9月9號才成立的運動部那確實過去為教育部體育署那其實在分工上面我們確實在兩個部會都有聯繫的平台那在這個部分的話我們會積極與教育部去溝通協調在這個部分希望不要讓這個基層的學校受到這個傷害"},{"start":418.584,"end":435.24,"text":"其實我也要跟部長說明其實這個登山教育成立以來真的雖然是希望全民登山向山致敬但是我們很多的原住民學校因此有了這些補助可以請高山向島"},{"start":436.121,"end":452.266,"text":"他們開始敢帶孩子去登聖山每一個族群都有它不同的聖山排灣族的大武山布農族的玉山等等所以我想這個是很重要的一個活動我希望我們不能斷吹我們讓它繼續好不好"},{"start":454.767,"end":471.764,"text":"好那最後我想要請教部長一件事因為我有排考察到台東體中那最主要的原因是因為呢他們台東體中有培育非常多的國手那這個"},{"start":472.805,"end":491.772,"text":"其中有一個項目叫做現代五項那這個現代五項呢過去你也應該很清楚 極健 游泳 射擊 跑步 馬術可是你也更清楚很多我們台灣我們國家這些學校的選手通常都會放棄哪一項"},{"start":493.718,"end":515.347,"text":"馬術通常都會放棄馬術好巧不巧我的助理國中的時候也參加過現代五項他也是放棄馬術因為第一個馬場就不好找那也貴重點是也很有他的危險性所以通常我們國人都會放棄這一項可是因為打馬事件所以2028"},{"start":517.789,"end":536.202,"text":"奧運要改為把馬術變成是障礙跑我覺得這個是我們國家的機會啊所以呢我們很希望能夠去把這樣的一個障礙跑的設施設備能夠處理那我知道的是其實長期以來政府提供給台東體中"},{"start":537.583,"end":548.746,"text":"有很多投入非常多的設施設備的改善經費這個我很了解但是他們目前就是沒有這個障礙跑的設施設備而且說實在錢也不多不到1500萬那我不太曉得說部長您的意見態度如何"},{"start":555.012,"end":580.383,"text":"那在現代五項馬術已經換成障礙跑的部分那確實我們會希望說讓更多的民眾能夠來參與這個然後希望它可以變成更加多人參與的一個項目所以部長您的意思是說會支持來做這樣的設施設備的補助改善我們會支持任何一個運動"},{"start":581.846,"end":593.339,"text":"所以會願意嗎我是希望說也有可能的話就是把它變成是國訓中心的一個分部這樣會不會更理想跟委員您報告這個我們會來評估看是否有機會這個"},{"start":596.179,"end":620.859,"text":"我是希望朝向這個方向因為2028在即嘛我覺得現在2026年初年中其實我們還有兩年多的時間可以準備所以我希望不要拖速度要快因為有很多的孩子其實另外的四項成績都很優秀那如果這一項的成績也能夠拿到我相信是很有幫助的好不好"},{"start":621.98,"end":627.375,"text":"那也請部長您加油您做得很好要加油要挺住謝謝謝謝委員也謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"168375","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168375","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7c9aa7eeefa315a729dfcc871f89f4d35775daf2063192877218123113ebae4d35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"11:21:57 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第三個部分是那您是否支持更透明的一個制度"},{"start":109.184,"end":132.572,"text":"甚至在一定的條件下對外揭露以避免外界質疑看不見的手在介入檢調偵辦這邊一個說明補充人民真正關心的不是法學理論上的檢查一體而是在具體的案件當中決定權在誰的手上有沒有受到不當干預這個問題如果沒有辦法解決"},{"start":134.453,"end":150.268,"text":"檢查體系常常都很難建立真正的法律的一個信賴所以您的看法呢好 謝謝委員我從第三個問題來回答委員那剛才委員提到說檢查議題是不是可以由外界來監督我跟委員報告不太可能"},{"start":150.788,"end":175.508,"text":"因為偵查中的案件是由外界來監督啦是某種程度的一個揭露跟大家不是 因為柯委員報告偵查中的案子一旦揭露就是洩露偵查中的秘密這大家都會有信心其實沒有在要求洩露不是要求洩露公開也不行你如何來讓大家能夠理解這個一定要對 整個法律體系的一個信心這個一定要到案件確定以後"},{"start":176.148,"end":196.362,"text":"判決確定或者是處分確定以後有人陳情我們調卷來看來聽錄音帶或者是說監察院來彈劾應該是這樣本席這邊提到的很重要一點就是說上命下從然後上命如果下不從有不同的法律見解"},{"start":197.122,"end":213.819,"text":"那這樣子的一個狀況如何讓大家來建立對司法體系的一個信心應該阻止是這樣本席接下來才會再跟您講所謂揭露的這個問題所以上面這個部分的主題不是在所謂的揭露而是上面下從檢查一體的一個狀況"},{"start":215.56,"end":242.392,"text":"所謂的檢查議題最主要就是要發揮團體的戰力也就是說要統一的見解以及怕有濫刑起訴的問題或者是一種違法不當的問題這都是裡面會隱藏的很多民眾也會要求說檢察官你怎麼可以濫刑起訴檢察官你怎麼可以違法偵查等等這些的過程我們檢察長基於督導的責任他必須要能夠去了解"},{"start":243.132,"end":260.776,"text":"本席這邊有可能還是把問題導演回我們最主要的主旨你要不要從第一個部分來做一個討論你說上級對下級的指揮監督那有沒有一些書面的記錄跟可追溯的機制其實本席第一個第一題講的是你們內部的問題內部體系的問題還沒有談到這個民眾對你們的一些所謂介入的這個問題"},{"start":268.118,"end":285.761,"text":"如果被監督的檢察官他有意見雙方一定要留下書面資料我要動用所謂的成績權或者是移轉權全部都要用書面下達然後檢察官如果有不同意見一樣用書面表達留在卷裡面這就是"},{"start":286.582,"end":303.622,"text":"就是作為以後查考的一個依據所以這個是有一個機制的所以那他如果有這樣一個意義的表達那對於個案的一個介入程度那這個部分是不是有比較明確的一個機制或者是比較明確的一個界限"},{"start":304.673,"end":319.665,"text":"如果他無法接受的時候真的首長是可以動用所謂的成績權或者是移轉權但是我們相關的規定都寫得很清楚這要非常的慎重因為這個是會有爭議的那我們通常的做法會"},{"start":320.626,"end":339.557,"text":"邀請相關的一個主任檢察官檢察官一起來討論就所有的問題拿出來討論大家來尋求一個共識我想最後是一定要做決定的但是不管是怎麼樣這個決定絕對不是政治意義的問題這個都會留下資料將來都可以調件來回復原狀來討論說這樣當時的決定檢察長所做的懲濟權或者是移轉權合不合法"},{"start":347.358,"end":368.104,"text":"我們就是說如果案件有一些爭議發生的時候我們有回溯的一個機制但是在過程當中我們會留下書面資料好那這是本席提供給你可能在你們內部需要就這個部分就是上面下蟲的這個區塊整個在這個中間的一個灰色地帶你如何去處理本席這邊提供給你這樣一個這個問題的參考"},{"start":370.425,"end":384.427,"text":"那第二個部分就是你剛才一直比較關心的你一直往這個方向走也就是說偵查不公開跟媒體洩密的這個問題那我想這個其實是大眾都特別有感而且我相信很多的委員剛才前一位委員其實也談到啦"},{"start":385.689,"end":404.154,"text":"那你如何來偵查不公開最主要就是保障案件的偵辦您剛才也是提到那當事人的權益那但是呢你要提供一個強化內控落實保密教育的一個措施但實務上我們社會的觀感經常都是在這個偵查的時候就會有邊偵查邊放話的一個情況而且很多細節是鉅細靡遺"},{"start":410.076,"end":421.909,"text":"雖然你們一直在講說這個不公開可是本席大概觀察了十幾年經常都是本席所看到的這個狀況邊偵查就邊公開我相信整個社會是很有感的所以本席這邊來請教那第一目前對於偵查資訊的這個外洩"},{"start":426.474,"end":447.788,"text":"多數都來自於檢查體系的內部那檢查署是不是針對這個部分可以進行調查統計與追溯你認為呢然後本席認為有統整才會有歸納才會有機會來找到破網那第二個部分是您如何來強化如果您有機會當上總長的話如何來強化內控的機制那如果"},{"start":448.328,"end":466.496,"text":"目前違法偵查公開的一個成本過低的話呢不公開的成本過低制度再完整也沒有效那未來你是不是支持加重泄密責任第二個部分是能不能夠建立嚴格的懲戒機制那你對這樣子有沒有什麼樣的具體修法的主張"},{"start":468.38,"end":484.085,"text":"我完全贊成我們委員剛才所提示的內容我想這個偵查不公開真的是對我們來講殺傷力很大我說我當檢察官從來無法想像怎麼會有人在偵查的時候就把東西洩露出去所以我不認為所有的問題是出在檢察官身上"},{"start":488.926,"end":492.428,"text":"因為我認為這中間接觸到那在你們可控的範圍內那檢察署對於這個部分如果你以後有機會當總長的話那對於調查統計跟追蹤然後統整跟歸納您的看法是如何然後第二部分是本席講的比較具體的是那您對於加重泄密責任跟建立嚴懲的機制的一個修法的具體"},{"start":512.316,"end":530.942,"text":"這個我們可以會後我們跟我們法務部這邊來做通盤的來討論我想部長也是非常非常的重視這個區塊我們也很想努力的去從嚴來偵辦這樣的案子但是事實上會遇到一些困難但是有困難我們還是要去克服我會要求"},{"start":531.622,"end":551.301,"text":"臺高姐的方式可能要再更具體一點好不好然後修法的方向跟修法的具體方案那希望如果您有機會在這個位置上我想這個是民眾長期以來非常關心的一個問題好謝謝林倩琪委員林委員發言跟貝提姆委員看起來是志同道合"}]}},{"id":"168374","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168374","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc79f22e2813d622f09fa1e45401cc1f585775daf20631928776ffb1ffb47bf31ea5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"11:22:26 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主委好 主委我們在之前其實曾經針對國軍上校接領奉人員子女教育補助費的問題有詢問過主委目前執行的狀況那本席要再次的提醒退府會這個案子因為立法院在去年6月10號已經三讀通過"},{"start":31.849,"end":58.578,"text":"已經增訂了27條之一授權退府會跟教育部共同訂定子女教育補助費的這個發起辦法那總統也在去年6月27日已經公布退府會也完成了這些相關草案法規的審核明訂114年8月1日施行在去年就應該要做的事情可是退府會在去年9月1日公報辦理情形行政院"},{"start":59.278,"end":79.959,"text":"要求要抱怨審閱同意然後再會同教育部公告我想請教就是說從總統公布到現在已經快一年的時間行政院他審議也將近一年那到現在目前的問題是什麼還不公布的原因到底是什麼"},{"start":81.431,"end":102.658,"text":"我一直跟行政院人事長保持聯繫主要就是軍人跟公教人員補助費能夠很平讓他們在做計算或者計劃在做作業一直在審查審閱當中 需要一點時間目前我所知道的資訊是這樣我一直跟他們保持聯繫 希望能夠盡快回補"},{"start":104.957,"end":107.9,"text":"他們要錢的時候不是這樣子喔要錢都是需求恐急然後一天都不能等可是如果要這個審議的過程當中因為這些榮民跑者子女我們現在還是再一次提醒就是說我們在這個過程當中我們覺得比較不合理的是沒有什麼橫貧的這樣的考量"},{"start":129.319,"end":148.394,"text":"我們現在是對於中校、少校階跟上校階這樣子的一個考量而不是跟其他的這些公務人員去做比較就這個部分我們看到如果像這樣子就讀私立大學可以先領教育部的17500元的補助費"},{"start":151.601,"end":170.528,"text":"可是辦法公布以後要先繳回教育部的補助款再申請退輔會三萬五千八百元的補助費其實我們退輔會基本上補助是三萬五千八然後教育部是一萬七千五那現在退一上校跟中校平均月退縫其實它相差不多啊"},{"start":172.509,"end":178.237,"text":"我們現在看到如果比較資深的依據退府會提供的資料啦如果是退役比較資深的這些關節比如說上校資深的大概七萬三左右"},{"start":185.461,"end":214.511,"text":"中校大概五萬九 將近六萬那少校大概五萬一可是如果在比較之前的剛升沒多久就退其實他的月奉大概也是五萬多塊而已那今天你好不容易升到上校其實應該是他表現也很優異然後可以有這樣升遷的機會他才升到上校可是因為中校跟少校都可以有這樣的教育資女教育補助費可是反而上校就沒有"},{"start":215.091,"end":229.765,"text":"那對他們來說 如果他們同樣是退役軍人 因為階級跟身份的差異一個可以領一萬多 然後一個只領三萬多那這個是不是形同簡奉 這樣是合理的嗎然後一直這樣拖是可以嗎"},{"start":233.786,"end":251.32,"text":"因為他早期上校中校少校都可以領啊所以我們修了以後他才不能領那你現在一直而且法也都通過了這個等於是變相懲罰你在軍中多付出或者你表現更好的人那主委這樣子的一個看法或者我們還可以怎麼做"},{"start":253.164,"end":271.19,"text":"這的確正如昭偉說的這些資深的上校跟資淺的上校還有跟中校少校比的確是有一些不公平那麼我們也把這些狀況有跟向上反映就是希望能夠盡早恢復那我想要請教一下現在"},{"start":274.226,"end":300.584,"text":"他現在是在哪一個地方?在哪一個黨會?誰黨?為什麼黨?問題出在哪裡?是在哪裡?送到行政院是外法處現在在哪裡?外法處外交國防法務處外法處你放多久了?報告委員,去年9月3號送到行政院一直到現在?是都在那裡?是沒有消息?"},{"start":301.998,"end":319.113,"text":"呃 還在審閱中還在審閱是那請退補會針對行政院審議商教接領奉人員子女教育補助費的處理情形用書面來回覆本席好不好在後續因為我們可能看看哪一些人自己要錢的時候然後要得很兇可是對於應該給的然後已經修法通過的"},{"start":324.797,"end":334.249,"text":"然後一直說要照顧軍人的卻遲遲不願意能拖就拖能推就推這個部分我們希望可以確切的找到他的問題點請用書面回覆本席"},{"start":338.538,"end":357.897,"text":"另外我想要在這裡也要向退普會提出一個具體的建議我們在落實政府照顧國軍官兵政策的時候退普會針對就讀國中小的親韓榮民子女特別有律定相關的這個"},{"start":360.936,"end":378.706,"text":"農民就學子女午餐補助發放作業要點那這個部分是針對中低收入戶或低收入戶特殊禁慾家庭或者經學校認定侵含無力支付午餐費的對象我們是提供例假日跟寒暑假的午餐補助"},{"start":379.406,"end":399.674,"text":"而且我們每天補助新台幣80元等於說你在放假的時候然後或者例假日的時候或者寒暑假的時候我們只補助一天只補助一餐而且一餐只有80塊我們看到去年的資料其實我們總共補助的人數大概只有一千多人你既然是放假了"},{"start":400.034,"end":423.289,"text":"然後他又是低收入戶中低收入戶又是清寒他可能沒有能力可能可以去做這樣子的一個我們補貼的用意大概是這樣希望我們在中小學的時候可以讓他這個子小孩子可以安心的成長可以比較有營養的可以去獲得這樣子的一個補助可是我們現在物價飛漲剛剛有委員提到連100塊我們都很難買到適當的"},{"start":429.951,"end":446.708,"text":"那我們現在補助八十塊這是合理的嗎那如果人數不是那麼多我們甚至應該在例假日的時候我們全天候的補助我覺得這個部分才能夠落實照顧到我們榮民所有的子女"},{"start":447.168,"end":465.581,"text":"因為他們不是一般的啦,你當然還是有條件嘛那你如果中低收入戶或者親韓的,我們能不能做到這樣的照顧?主委這個部分您怎麼看?是,謝謝召委關心我們對親韓農民教學子女的照顧我想這個每天新台幣80元,我們現在已經在做檢討"},{"start":467.702,"end":495.588,"text":"我們明年的話我們預算大概是希望由80塊最少提高到100這是明年那我們會按照剛剛委員 召委所指導的我們看是不是再適度的再給它調高再增加好 主委我們剛剛有提到一個就是說它一餐你100塊其實也是補助一餐可是它明明一天它有三餐不管你要怎麼樣去做這樣的補助你說放假的時候它只吃一餐嗎或者你補助的那個"},{"start":497.028,"end":514.773,"text":"他的那個額度我想其實還可以更人性化一點而且更真的可以落實他的照顧他第一人數不多預算也不高所以就這個部分去做一個整體的一個評估跟考量以後我們做一個妥適的一個調整好不好是可以我們在做檢討好謝謝主委謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168372","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168372","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc71d903834ca75b94aff16f9abdda18f34775daf206319287715f377d25edfc7d75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"11:12:30 - 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我跟委員報告就是主要是增產的部分大部分都是按照契約的價格去計算是不是增產之後就可以滿足國內中下游的這個需求是是是那另外據以息的部分這個經濟部也協調台塑台塑也增產了那台塑有違法嗎我覺得他配合政府的政策"},{"start":391.598,"end":414.283,"text":"可以說廖局是行善的為了要解決問題他配合經濟部的政策去供應去增加他的這個供應量他哪裡違法法務部有違法嗎因為是個案的部分可能廖局那邊有立一個案子在這個你從常識來判斷"},{"start":417.957,"end":445.993,"text":"這個原物料上漲一般合理的狀況就是適度的減產不影響到供需的狀況對不對所以你們必須要查明勿枉勿重不要說這個為台灣經濟發展貢獻很大的一個台灣知名企業會受到這種我配合政策還要被查"},{"start":447.452,"end":469.986,"text":"我個人覺得要好好查清楚不要對台數誤解或者造成對他們的傷害另外今天將市長來我覺得你可以用市長的身份各位請先回座市長我建議你可以用市長的身份去一趟日本"},{"start":471.277,"end":488.16,"text":"不會所有人都可以去日本嗎?我希望你去見一下日本經產省就CPTPP的議題啊你要主帥要親征啊也許秘魯你去不了 智利你去不了我可以幫你去"},{"start":490.233,"end":516.351,"text":"但國內你到這個東南亞你越南可以去吧我們劉仕中大使也在那邊同志引導在新加坡你也可以去吧你要跟前線作戰我們跟新加坡談得怎麼樣我們跟越南談得怎麼樣問來你們也要去啊你要親自去他們才有壓力才有動力我們才能掌握如果你不去我就請所有大使回來"},{"start":519.176,"end":543.333,"text":"報告委員我們非常關注CPTPP的執行進展像我前年有去秘魯我們也跟秘魯的相關我是上個月去你前年這個已經實況環境轉變太大了你剛剛指示的其他的國家我會盡力的去安排我覺得利用這個關鍵時候年底就要召開這個部長會議今年是越南市輪值主席國"},{"start":545.518,"end":573.308,"text":"這個關鍵年 機遇年他相對有機會成立台灣的陸會工作小組往後就是馬來西亞可能就是這個到英國可能是四年之後的事情所以今年如果不好好把握 你知道我2021是我召開記者會呼籲經濟部要台灣要趕快申請加入CPTPP結果第二天老共跑去申請"},{"start":576.192,"end":597.369,"text":"我是要你們趕快動作要快一點 積極一點 全力投入一點所以如果你們再沒有太積極的話我會把所有的這個大使 全部都找回來就12個國家來報告這個說明跟駐在國他們的這個談判情形跟接下狀況好 以上"}]}},{"id":"168371","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168371","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc74a97f79eb7fccb4dfa1e45401cc1f585775daf2063192877fd79bbc0b0a3b3945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"11:15:56 - 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我不知道你們怎麼會經營 怎麼賺錢這個 這個 主委啊 我誇你了 你講個話咧保委 我們這個是在安置基金在運用我知道啦 搭分給安置基金啦 建國庫不多啦我的意思是說 因為你會賺錢 所以少賺一點啦你跟經濟部講一下 董長 可以嗎"},{"start":260.523,"end":264.908,"text":"可以嗎?可以嗎?剛剛我們竹民講會跟透過瓦解會跟技術反應這個問題小問題啊"},{"start":269.052,"end":286.079,"text":"農民救養金的申請資格現在有人啊這個有農民啊比如說在他退以前啊他可能持有一張台積電的股票結果他的鼓勵這個儘管會鼓勵大家藏地持有啊結果因為這樣子結果沒有辦法領農民救養金一個月一萬五嘛對不對"},{"start":292.81,"end":316.619,"text":"一萬五十個沒有可不可以檢討單身或是沒有子女的農民入住農家政府的安置重要是不一定是給錢 重要是安置他可不可以讓他住進來可不可以可不可以檢討包委我是救養處處長報告我們領取救養金的農民大概有兩萬六千多人那我每一年會去做驗證"},{"start":318.086,"end":339.766,"text":"按照他每一年平均的總收入那總收入的一項裡面就有包含利息的收入所以我們針對榮民的這些總收入因為訂那個太苛了因為主席站出來不要花太多時間那個他是用低收入戶的標準在訂啦我覺得這一部分對榮民可以放寬一點啦"},{"start":342.221,"end":350.209,"text":"我們回去再做檢討沒有這是兩個一個是入住一個是領錢我現在關心的是入住因為這樣子取消入住對吧沒有取消了怎麼沒有"},{"start":357.368,"end":372.16,"text":"我剛剛跟您報告的是救養金那救養的資格條件我們有相關的規則你們監討一下吧因為那個你們資格是比照門檻比照那個低收入太低啦我真的要強調這個太低啦我覺得對農民這樣子太苛啦好不好 謝謝謝謝賴市長 委員 接下來請文娟 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好了解我覺得25年人生能有幾個25年是 沒錯所以25年真的是算是很繼承的工作做很久是 真的是一個非常這個讓人家肯定而且稱獻的履歷因為我覺得檢察官其實在我們的印象當中都是一個打擊罪惡的一個先鋒那我相信您的血液當中應該也是充滿爭議感"},{"start":52.479,"end":65.131,"text":"是 我這個就秉持不敢好 那我現在想請教你一件事就是說你在檢察界已經有25年了嘛那 我不知道有沒有逃離滿天下但是我在想 經過這25年的這個跟人家應對 互動應該人脈非常的豐沛啦那我想請問你有沒有聽過馬玉文檢察官"},{"start":75.876,"end":101.189,"text":"馬玉元檢察官因為我服務的機關在中北部我不曉得馬玉元檢察官非常的有名他被人家簡稱叫做馬檢那為什麼他會那麼有名呢因為他說他經營檢調已經七年了所以他完全有獲取到柯文哲的秘密的檔案就是Excel檔裡頭有1500那馬檢真的是非常的神通廣大那不知道你這位真正的檢察官怎麼來看這個馬檢應該他算是假的檢察官"},{"start":105.271,"end":110.259,"text":"能夠取得這樣的資料那一定前提一定是已經偵查亂公開公開了才會有這樣的讓他掌握到這些資料嗎"},{"start":114.318,"end":136.761,"text":"他個人講什麼話我沒有辦法評論但是我還是會強調我自己當檢察官25年我對於在偵查中洩露偵查的內容是非常非常的忌諱因為他會嚴重的影響到我偵查作為甚至於證據會滅失 當事人會串證那一方面也會侵害到當事人的訴訟"},{"start":138.122,"end":165.084,"text":"我已經掌握到了您對這個偵查大公開不公開的原則是信奉的所以我們一定會可是現在就是柯文哲主席的案件從去年前年就讓我們看到一個偵查大公開偵查亂公開偵查已經讓我們覺得說怎麼會看到這麼荒腔走板的一個司法劇情除了有馬玉文檢察官還有靜州刊檢察官啊 信靜明州刊啊你有聽過信靜明州刊這位檢察官嗎"},{"start":166.728,"end":181.551,"text":"沒有好那我就告訴你他就是我們在業界在坊間非常有名的淨檢現在有兩個檢察官非常具有高知名度一個就叫馬檢一個叫淨檢那完全暴露了就是偵查大公開然後偵查大公開檢察官這邊放出風聲給媒體跟媒體形成了一個媒跟檢共生的一個環界那除此之外呢黨檢媒三位議題一直在砲轟大攻擊核彈式的攻擊在野黨的委員您覺得這樣合適嗎"},{"start":195.433,"end":223.581,"text":"報告委員 剛才委員特別提到說檢察官放消息給這個媒體這個部分 我要跟委員報告檢察官非常的辛苦上個禮拜還有一個北檢檢察官還送急診檢察官暗讀勞刑是拋棄身體健康我知道 我有很多檢察官的朋友因為我也是法律出身的法官都是暗讀勞刑然後都是用他們的健康跟壽命在換得司法的正義所以在沒有確確的證據以前實在不一定"},{"start":224.621,"end":247.185,"text":"馬簡新事件他經營7年信心200%可以說檢察官放給他的訊息是真的我想這件事可說公平時間也有限那我只您說您反對那如果有一天您成為檢察總長的時候希望您能夠整頓這個現象才能夠未來的行為呼應你現在的承諾那第二件事情就是那個好像檢察有一些檢察官為了升官發財他現在真的搭上"},{"start":251.326,"end":265.479,"text":"升官發財的直升機了他真的已經搭上升官發財的直升機了那他做了什麼行為以至於別人都搭不到這台升官發財的直升機但他卻搭上去了他到醫院去違法徵訊審慶金"},{"start":268.142,"end":296.46,"text":"那請問你對這個看法如何他說我去視察那根本假視察指明其實就是要去做不當詢問違法偵訊的動作嘛那布小德你對這件事的看法如何報告委員這是具體個案所有的證據的證據證明力證據能力跟證明力到底能不能被接受希望到法庭上去我覺得我們沒有講究證據力證明力因為已經退而求其辭到說"},{"start":297.661,"end":315.879,"text":"真相發見真實的義務發見真實能不能夠澄清這當然也是一個非常重要的議題但是已經沒有辦法去奢求真相只想要知道說當人權被侵害到這種程度的時候我們的最高我們的檢察總長對這件事的看法是什麼"},{"start":316.9,"end":326.848,"text":"包委員喔 這是一個具體的個案案件也還沒有判決我記得新聞報導你好像提到說這並不違法然後人家問你說那他的 他現在就是他是沒有違法 但是我不要評論沒有違法 他都已經假視察假視察知名 然後跑去做違法詢問那沈慶金還出來講說他威脅我咬出柯文哲那你覺得這是一個那當場也沒有錄音那你覺得這是一個正當的"},{"start":345.362,"end":352.227,"text":"這完全是踐踏在押被告的人權這完全是漠視正當法律程序啊我覺得不能夠以說這是個案然後就迴避這麼犀利的提問我的提問就是說像這種不當訊問如果你以後當檢察總長你不能夠說這是個案啊避之唯恐不及啊因為個案就會變通案"},{"start":365.638,"end":392.057,"text":"如果這個風氣敗壞到 個案就會變通案那變通案 那好 如果這是通案呢 你的看法呢事實上這一件後來也有行政調查 也做監督處分了不是 應該是說交給新北來做監督處分處分 處分結果是什麼不當言 那就是不當的發言的部分不是 他們也有做處理的所以就是 已經有處分了可是處分的結果"},{"start":393.636,"end":420.235,"text":"處分的結果檢評會送新北地檢署處理監督處分結果出來了還沒有好那我們希望這件事不要輕輕舉起最後輕輕放下因為我覺得這是司法的形象因為人民對司法的信任感已經其實非常的低了那任何一根駱駝任何一根稻草有可能會壓垮司法爭議的駱駝這樣子這個部分我們還是要尊重新北地檢署依法處理"},{"start":422.636,"end":431.38,"text":"問題是他們如果管管相互呈現出來在人民眼前的都是一些偏袒的報告那你叫人民怎麼信服就像我們柯文哲主席210萬的錢政治獻金就被認為是匯款那其實對這也是透過你們司法之手所確認出來的一個法律見解"},{"start":444.045,"end":469.903,"text":"你不能夠說北檢辦出來的大家沒有質疑的空間因為你們這麼荒腔走板人民又沒有質疑的空間這個不會不會回到之前所謂的白色恐怖白色恐怖我真的沒有看過但是另外一種顏色的恐怖好像是現在正在進行那我現在只想期許你說如果有一天你能夠成為檢察總長對於我今天提出來的問題不當訊問不當訊問還有呢就是"},{"start":474.006,"end":501.504,"text":"什麼叫做視察你自己也回答說過去20年從來沒有一個人到醫院去視察過那當然他到現在還是沒有辦個例子他說他去視察根本不是一個例子那只是藉口所以從以前到現在根本沒有視察過鄰居的那個例子根本可以掛單為什麼可以掛單因為那只是藉口他明明就是想去不正訊問的他明明就是想去把那個看能不能軟化省慶金軟的不行就用微破利藥"},{"start":502.384,"end":519.336,"text":"然後讓他咬出柯文哲這個是個案沒有錯這個是個案沒有錯但是他的判決結果其實已經出來了你現在出來評價其實你也不會影響到司法的公正心因為案件是不可能一審就判決確定他會再繼續上訴到二審還是屬於未判決確定的具體個案"},{"start":523.999,"end":544.374,"text":"好 沒有問題 沒有問題 你如果有一天變成檢察總長你的下面的人如果做了這些事難道你也不處理嗎 視而不見 從而不聞這種遵守法律程序一定會要求各級的檢察長一定要實質的做到我真的讀了法律二十年啦 我也是法律背景的我讀了法律二十年啦 我現在覺得說一些冠冕堂皇的話呢 都只出現在教科書啦"},{"start":549.337,"end":567.31,"text":"無罪推定在教科書有被現實的檢察官現實世界檢察官操作下去就變成有罪推論嚴格證明法則在教科書上有啦被檢察官操作下去就變成不用證明法則啦210萬都可以變成210萬都可以變成匯款啦然後偵查不公開到了現實世界變成偵查亂公開啦所以我覺得您講的一口漂亮的話"},{"start":576.997,"end":587.521,"text":"那這口漂亮的話是不是以後只能夠在教科書上回味追思而已我們的現實世界會有人展現這麼高風亮節的情操給我們看嗎這是我沉痛的發聲現實世界還有這些高風亮節的檢察官能夠幫我們守護無罪推薦原則偵查不公開原則嚴格證明原則嗎"},{"start":602.455,"end":620.972,"text":"我們這樣的檢察官還很多所以你的意思就是一顆老鼠死毀了整鍋粥嘛沒有這樣子的話大家都很努力可是我們百姓看到的就是這樣啊我們百姓看到的就是說司法怎麼可以被操弄成這樣的程度好我們來講所以如果以後你成為一個檢察總長你要怎麼改善這些惡行惡狀的惡檢"},{"start":629.927,"end":649.034,"text":"偵查的過程中 擁有一點點的瑕疵但談不上惡行惡狀我想這樣的形容詞加註在我們檢察官的身上我覺得我們不能接受檢察官暗讀勞刑這麼辛苦 還被評價成這樣當然委員所指教的部分我們一定會要求各級檢察長一定要實質的"},{"start":649.394,"end":667.977,"text":"我也是個案在講那幾個檢察官林俊炎這幾個檢察官我並沒有在講全台灣的檢察官全台灣的檢察官當然大家都是盡忠職守但是真的被那幾顆老鼠屎搞得人家對他們有一些誤解我自己也是法律背景出身的檢察官我非常尊重因為他們是司法爭議最後一道防線"},{"start":669.238,"end":673.242,"text":"那個法官我更是尊重因為他們是司法正義的守門員我也沒有想要誣蔑他們但是這一兩年看起來的劇情就是讓我們覺得檢調系統還有法院系統真的有幾顆老鼠屎 敗壞風氣我講的也是個案好 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有請嚴主委我們請嚴主委 謝謝歐委好是 主委好我想我今天來質詢您應該可以猜得出我是要問什麼問題了吧"},{"start":17.697,"end":40.778,"text":"這個我們在去年6月27號國軍退出役官兵輔導條例就已經修正了然後新增訂27條之二要恢復辦理榮民子女就醫補助費而且是不分軍階的那麼這個是立法院三讀通過而且已經公布的法律案那麼這不是行政命令也不是一個行政政策那其中就是希望要求"},{"start":42.579,"end":66.988,"text":"這個退府會主管機關你們要制定相關的辦法可是呢到現在這個法律已經通過了將近一年了兩個學期都過去了柔明朋友們到現在反應說還是申請不到領不到補助沒有辦法依法申請領不到補助我想請問主委就是我也看到你們這個退府會在去年"},{"start":67.668,"end":81.386,"text":"八月的時候就已經報了這個榮民之領什麼子女教育補助費的方案辦法就是你們已經制定預告了嘛也有這個草案然後已經呈報給行政院了那到底為什麼現在還沒有辦法正式公告"},{"start":82.588,"end":106.083,"text":"那委員我們也很急因為這個案子我們從107年就希望爭取恢復每一年的恢復那今年在大院去年6月27號公布之後我們按照條文的授權會從教育部完成了發給辦法按照所有的程序包含公告還有法規審議都完成了就送到行政院送行政院行政院是通知我們因為要考量到"},{"start":106.963,"end":118.705,"text":"退休的軍人跟公教人員他的教務費的一個橫頻跨部會的一個協調現在在做審閱所以從去年8月20號到現在已經審了多少個月了行政院會有曾經討論過嗎我有跟人事長常常聯繫行政院人事長常常聯繫所以這是人事長的問題嗎人事長說這不是他們的問題啊"},{"start":134.595,"end":146.815,"text":"那整個還在行政院的審閱當中我們在積極做協調這個非常非常的荒謬就是我們一個簡單的辦法而且並不是說退府會沒有經費你們是沒有經費嗎"},{"start":148.722,"end":169.183,"text":"應該是有嘛 對不對 我記得你們向來歷年也都有相關的預算編列可是竟然這麼重要的環節 然後就是卡在行政院搞不好就卡在卓榮泰的手上 他現在桌上不曉得押了多少公文對老百姓 對軍人 對軍公教有利的法案 他根本都不批這非常非常糟糕的"},{"start":170.472,"end":189.274,"text":"我希望原主委您身為退府會的大家長應該要站在保護或是愛護我們榮民朋友的立場上面要再積極的去反應啊否則我們現在大家做的這麼多的事情做白宮全部都是看卓榮泰的臉色"},{"start":192.281,"end":192.921,"text":"我們在積極的協調爭取"},{"start":215.272,"end":231.331,"text":"真的我真的認為說再不通過的話這個可能接下來也還不只是彈劾行政院長可能退府會都會有問題好那接下來我再問第二個問題這個也是我這個常常有聽到基層榮民朋友抱怨的一個議題"},{"start":232.412,"end":252.311,"text":"就是說現在退府會將榮民分成第一類跟第二類這個分類本身沒有問題但是呢在第一類裡面又再細分為他是有職的榮民或是無職的榮民而且兩者的待遇差距非常大就以榮民就醫為例我看今天榮民就醫處的處長有來是不是"},{"start":253.632,"end":269.234,"text":"針對無職榮民他就想有很多譬如說在退府會可以補助繳納健保費啦住院伙食費還有有補助然後病房費也可以差額免收部分醫療費用也有補助但是對於有職榮民的部分"},{"start":270.41,"end":286.689,"text":"除了是在榮民醫院可以享有免掛號免收掛號費之外其餘的全部都回歸到健保體系他們還是要叫健保費然後也沒有任何的榮民醫療的專屬補助所以在這裡想請教主委是您覺得這樣子的差別待遇公平嗎"},{"start":287.43,"end":304.359,"text":"同樣是對國家對我們的這個這個軍隊奉獻20年以上的榮民朋友卻因為退伍之後他有沒有工作就所享受到的福利待遇然後差別很大這個會不會有這種反而是"},{"start":306.207,"end":324.304,"text":"傳達一種所謂的反就業誘因最好就是這些早期退伍的朋友們退伍的榮民朋友們就不用再去工作了大家都在家裡面請問主委您贊同這樣子的一個現在的一個措施嗎老闆我請我們就業處處長葉管跟您說明"},{"start":327.649,"end":348.512,"text":"報告委員 我是就醫保健處處長劉俊正針對這個在就業的部分 有職人民的部分因為涉及到全民健保法的規定所以不管是榮民或者是配偶他如果是在就業或就職的話就必須以健保的第一類來投保我們的保費也是按照薪資的級距來計算這是按照全民健保法的作業來辦理的"},{"start":349.733,"end":374.785,"text":"那無職榮民的部分也是一樣 按照全民健保法它是 您有榮民證跟議事證或是榮民的遺卷的家戶代表證的話它是以健保的六類義務來投表好 謝謝處長 所以簡單來說 就是這是涉及到全民健保法裡面的相關規定那你們有沒有曾經有反應過 這個應該要去進行修法總站在保障榮民朋友的立場上面 退府會是不是應該要提出修法"},{"start":376.035,"end":382.983,"text":"或是你們至少要跟健保法的主管機關應該是衛福部吧去溝通啊"},{"start":384.216,"end":389.659,"text":"包委員我們再想辦法來跟衛福部來做一個溝通把這樣的需求來轉遞給衛福部是本席認為說這個其實未來也會是一個可以鼓勵可以招募更多的年輕人加入我們國防這個軍隊那麼同時呢也可以對於現在對國家有功的榮民朋友們可以有更多的保障然後還有一個同樣類似的問題就是說現在榮民在政府機關公共體系服務他領的薪水是天花板的薪水也就是"},{"start":413.031,"end":431.7,"text":"只有三萬八千一百三十元因為他可能繼續領他退伍金但是他在政府部門工作的話有第二個職業也就是他在就業卻只能領三萬八千一百三十元其實這也是顯不公平的事情這個部分是不是也可以一併檢討好嗎"},{"start":434.12,"end":449.594,"text":"可以嗎?因為這真的是讓大家覺得同工不同酬即便是一個將軍退伍然後到加機關去工作然後他也只能領三萬八千元這其實是很不合理的一件事情"},{"start":450.695,"end":464.987,"text":"跟委員報告,我是退職局副處處長,有關於轉任到公部門,這是依照服役條例,這是主管機關那我們會把這個建議跟國防部反映,以上報告對,這個部分我覺得也很重要,希望你們能夠積極去爭取"},{"start":466.328,"end":487.784,"text":"那最後我就是希望就是原主委是不是可以在一個月之內給本席一個全面盤點以及檢討現在有職榮民跟無職榮民的他的制度福利的差別然後以及相關的法規那麼同時對於剛剛我們講的有沒有可能未來再提高有關於榮民在公家機關服務薪資待遇這個部分請"},{"start":489.165,"end":509.376,"text":"退府會一個月內給本席份報告好嗎對你們如果說不方便推法案的話本席可以在這裡提案我的目的就是希望能夠保障維護我們所有軍人以及榮民朋友們的權益我回去再做檢討好一個月可以吧好OK那就謝謝好謝謝翁曉林委員接下來請賴氏"}]}},{"id":"168381","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168381","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7b26246c8c1c1573dd16b10bbffbc7f67775daf2063192877f8e03f26c378850b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:31:32 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有請部長有請部長"},{"start":16.94,"end":36.465,"text":"委員您好部長辛苦了聆聽您一個早上的答詢我覺得您對於業務的掌握還有對於整個詢答的過程不卑不亢我覺得有很多的進步給您鼓勵跟加油那我也很希望我今天質詢的第一趴的這個主題下個禮拜可以不用在這裡提出來了因為"},{"start":38.342,"end":63.043,"text":"整個國家總預算能不能夠付為審查就看在野黨的委員這週五能不能夠來讓他真的交付審查而不是再當放羊的孩子我們希望審預算如果支持運動就審預算我昨天質詢國科會我也同樣的感同身受感觸良多去年教育文化委員會通過了AI基本法"},{"start":63.743,"end":84.891,"text":"可是因为总预算不省新兴计划连带影响AI新十大建设就有高达一百零二亿同样的去年我们朝野支持成立了运动部可是巧妇难为五米之炊如果挺运动就省预算我希望下礼拜我不需要再来"},{"start":85.411,"end":101.439,"text":"重复这样一个主题对在野党的委员喊话我希望下个礼拜我们就能够真正复为审查请在野党的委员不要再狼来了不要再当放羊的孩子那总预算不省运动不受害而今天的专报的主题是全民运动"},{"start":102.179,"end":121.906,"text":"我這個PPT的左邊就是整個運動部因為新興計畫以及新增預算加總起來A加B因為國會不審預算連帶total影響是74.65億這是運動部受影響的而跟今天專報主題相關的全民運動"},{"start":123.945,"end":151.91,"text":"是高達55%也就是有41.34億因為總預算沒審全民運動今天我相信大家都關心所以召委第一個運動部的質詢在新會期就安排全民運動可是正因為總預算沒有審就高達41.34億的全民運動的預算沒有辦法支應這不是國人期待的不是社會樂見的"},{"start":153.63,"end":173.027,"text":"那麼當然很快在野黨委員就回立腔就來了一手要錢一手擋錢就發生在昨天的彰化的現場我覺得您的回覆也非常的得體公允作為一個運動部長不分顏色不分黨派"},{"start":174.605,"end":198.743,"text":"沒有預算你就是沒有辦法支持國家的建設那沒想到連兩天連續兩個迴利標就是又來到我們今天影響到的是無數的運動員的權益影響到的是我們的田徑產業更影響到我們的國際形象的這一個田徑賽沒有辦法舉辦那您已經清楚的說明了會用基金來支應所以說您百分之百"},{"start":201.585,"end":220.121,"text":"就是打包票一定全力支持讓這個賽事不會辦不了辦不成對不對那從昨天其實從去年開始我們一直在我知道那其實一直以來到昨天我們都還有積極跟田協做這個那基金的選項有沒有之前就提出來"},{"start":221.002,"end":250.222,"text":"基金的選項我們一直都有輔導田徑協會那我們今天還是會繼續跟田徑協會希望說在保障運動員的參賽權益下我們還是希望可以將這個此次的賽事能夠辦在我們台灣好 希望這個總預算之亂李洋部長能夠有效的拆淡好嗎 先用基金來支應來協助重要的國際賽會賽事不受影響下頁但是冤有頭債有主喔剛剛還是有在野黨的委員又來做賊喊抓賊了"},{"start":251.442,"end":266.151,"text":"因為是國會不審預算但他們現在甩鍋給卓榮泰院長甩鍋給行政院說我先放行的一個718億這一包道理要說清楚講明白以國家總預算來講3兆350億只放行718億代表國會擺爛了97.63%的預算不審"},{"start":275.376,"end":282.759,"text":"新興計畫以國家整體來講只放行的718億就是丟包了76%的新興預算而在運動部我們今天關鍵的是運動預算我聽您試算出來了左邊的這一個下方左邊的這個表呢其實還扣除了你的運發基金93億喔"},{"start":296.465,"end":316.957,"text":"所以说公务预算跟补助款加起来121亿里头在野党的委员只抽出新兴预算的品牌赛事的8亿代表什么93.39%的运动预算在野党被国会摆烂而如果就新兴预算这边来统计的话"},{"start":318.018,"end":337.548,"text":"只放行8億但是是丟包了89.3的新興預算就是今天的主題有41.34億的全民運動沒有辦法來推廣冤有頭債有主我們還是要把道理勇敢的說不分顏色我們只問是非"},{"start":338.368,"end":353.853,"text":"我不希望下一次排運動部我還要再拜託總預算趕快審再進行同樣的喊話不要再浪費國會的時間不要再浪費國人的時間我想您要做好準備如果總預算附委審查"},{"start":354.853,"end":383.871,"text":"还是需要一段时间了那会不会有另外一个国际赛会没办法办或是下一个县市认为它的建设受到影响您可能这个球会接不完所以要像您在场上一样求求要能接而且能够要预先未雨绸缪超减部署好吗好下一个全民运动人人都是运动推手我看到一个亮点计划叫做村里认证很好下一页首先跟您分享哦"},{"start":385.051,"end":404.523,"text":"全民運動跟競技運動就是我們的兩大塊的重要政策面向競技運動就是要培育更多的運動員運動家但是吳思瑤我更關切的是全民運動的這一端我們要培養更多的運動家庭"},{"start":406,"end":429.487,"text":"運動家很重要專業的運動員很重要國際奪牌的這個目標很重要但是政策方向我們應當更側重在培養更多的運動家庭我一再的跟您提醒有運動家庭才會有好的運動環境運動氛圍下一頁那這裡有四個人總統"},{"start":432.268,"end":461.255,"text":"還有您部長還有市長還有這一位最右邊這一位你可能不認識誰會是最好的運動推手從總統部長市長到最右邊這是吳思瑤的北投我家的那個里長叫黃勝宗里長即慶禮哪一個是最重要的運動推手跟委員您報告我個人認為在運動產業以及推手來講我覺得都非常重要"},{"start":461.874,"end":475.344,"text":"A B C D 都重要這是最政治正確也是真的最正確的回答不要忘了 立定很重要所以我們有了下一頁村裡認證的計畫113年是事辦136個通過114年正式上路有214個里正式獲得運動村裡的認證這個計畫呢預算好少好少只有850億"},{"start":491.174,"end":505.623,"text":"雖然少但是要做好我希望來年要更增編更擴編在對的方向上下一頁我會為您爬梳出幾個問題運動村裡的認證其實是換寡也換不均的全台灣有7752個里"},{"start":513.34,"end":514.323,"text":"申請數只有4.23的里328個來申請通過數只佔"},{"start":521.874,"end":543.813,"text":"所有7750个里当中的2.76%而申请通过的比例是不低的有6成5是因为来申请的人不多那你右边的这个图可以看到他明显的城乡是有失衡的请看最下面那个红色的这个bar平均全台湾各个县市"},{"start":544.972,"end":569.95,"text":"有每一个县市是10个里获得而六都呢是18.3个里获得而非六都就只降到只有一个县市6.9个村里去参与而且获得这个认证这就是告诉我们换寡也换不均而且他有城乡的失衡这是问题下一页所以说我替你很快的"},{"start":571.004,"end":584.591,"text":"分享我觀察到的問題我就不細究不論述時間也快到了第一個這個認證現在只有書面審查只是paperwork所以為什麼城市的里長他可能這方面的他的資訊落差"},{"start":586.482,"end":606.774,"text":"比较能够弥补它没有这些数位落差它也比较有资源所以在你的评比的项目去看个里的运动现况有多少场馆场所你平常做了哪些活动的推广这都用量化来取代质化这是第一个问题只是paperwork没有实地的去访查第二个问题是"},{"start":607.654,"end":612.057,"text":"政策誘因不足啊部長你知道嗎如果獲得認證 這個里長 這個里可以獲得什麼獎金 獎牌 獎品嗎"},{"start":618.131,"end":640.997,"text":"好我跟你說就是一個運動村裡認證的標章然後寫上新聞稿看記者要不要提要不要報導然後運動部如果有在這個縣市辦活動這個裡可以優先邀請你這是第一個政策誘因不足第二個宣傳方式很陽春你們怎麼去跟里長宣傳呢只有辦說明會"},{"start":643.329,"end":656.786,"text":"現在都是iPhone 17了我們不能還在用Nokia好嗎所以說宣傳方式也要來加緊的來調整再下一個獲獎的村裡是須有其名是什麼意思呢"},{"start":658.379,"end":675.595,"text":"我以我自己士林北投我在準備這個質詢的時候我發現我的士林北投加起來有九個里長獲得這個認證很棒可是我自己有點摸不著頭腦這個里因為我都很熟悉他是為什麼獲得這個認證呢你看不出來"},{"start":676.877,"end":696.259,"text":"所以說虛有其名是說你只公布了他的名字這個李很棒北投的即興李很棒但是他是因為做了什麼好的創意的運動推廣讓他獲得這個認證是看不到的所以說推動的亮點沒有辦法被推廣出來"},{"start":697.04,"end":714.759,"text":"这是我看到的第三个问题所以我最后的建议有下一页请您可以学习环境部也有很多透过邻里去推动永续城市低碳家园的平等你可以去学学他们的经验他们会有实地的考核"},{"start":715.8,"end":730.612,"text":"更重要的是他不會是一次性的他會你一旦被列入這個生態綠化小組或是節能節電小組他會永續的每年都在去考核讓你看你是繼續是名流榜上還是就"},{"start":732.373,"end":750.607,"text":"拜拜了这才是有意义的今天时间非常有限给您肯定运动村里认证的这个做法理想会是很好的运动的推手但是要给资源要给诱因可能也需要给补助更实质的"},{"start":751.568,"end":778.609,"text":"給里長他們有更大的動力還有你的宣傳方式要更創新然後考核也要能夠符合事實而不是只有paperwork只有量化而沒有質化沒有時間讓您最後您要不要最後回應一下這些我的建議是不是都能夠急速來調整跟委員您報告那首先非常感謝您對於我們這個村裡認證的這一個重視那我個人也非常重視這一點那委員您的建議我們全部會來做"},{"start":780.37,"end":786.783,"text":"好的計畫就好事不要做半套我們做更多 做更好 做得更到位後續我會持續的關心謝謝 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人閒的時候人也沒事好做那這些他聘僱過來的移工可能還要固定的這個底薪還有勞健保這個成本對他們來講其實"},{"start":491.818,"end":516.019,"text":"在那個時段他也沒有收入 負擔這個成本其實非常非常的高那農業部呢 針對這樣的現象用變形工時啊 這個外產移工當作一個解決的方式似乎無法解決這個困境 這個就是目前我們所能夠理解的那怎麼辦才好 所以這邊有一個是不是可以從房賭失聯來轉向韌性調"},{"start":518.03,"end":542.476,"text":"的這個可行性來跟兩位討論一下我們不能夠建議就是政府或者是類機構來擔任聘僱的主體作為一個人力調度的中心就是麻煩將來可以討論看看那這個是好像這個類人力的這個派遣的角色由這個中心來負責移工的勞健保住宿還有這個行政的管理"},{"start":543.516,"end":570.327,"text":"然後再根據各地的農盲的時程比如說這個採收季節可以跨縣市的資源來做靈活的調派這樣不僅能夠減輕農民的壓力也能夠確保漁工有穩定的工作跟醫療的保障以制度的彈性來降低這個失聯的誘因所以這個政府如果能夠這樣這個調度比地下的仲介更靈活更有合法更尊嚴的時候相信這個失聯率自然就會下降"},{"start":571.467,"end":599.469,"text":"這部分的想法不知道有沒有機會請一個月裡面來把這個由政府來執聘派遣體系的可行性進行初步的評估請教一下我們這個農業部 黃社長 各位委員報告 針對這個季節性問題的部分我們農業部在去年開始我們已經有示範在屏東地區有一個跨區外展調度的一個方式那就是大概以"},{"start":599.949,"end":627.097,"text":"以採收季節的這個部分為主體那他在不同季節的採收季來做移動那像現在是四月份的話開始就是芒果的一個採收在仿山仿寮地區那就是做這些移工我們現在就是已經調度到我們仿山仿寮地區去做芒果的一個採收的工作那到了大概六月結束之後我們就會再到了一個香蕉的一個採收的這樣子的一個"},{"start":629.758,"end":635.54,"text":"調度所以這部分我們去年在屏東部分已經有做這樣子的一個事辦計畫就是說我們除了一般的外展機構像農會合作社他們目前用外展制度來做自行的調度之外我們目前也在做這個事辦計畫那今年我們預計也要再擴展到台南還有像高雄這些台中這些區域"},{"start":652.065,"end":667.644,"text":"我們希望讓人力的調度可以更加的一個彈性那這個部分是目前是以農會這邊來做就是依目前現在的一個雇主資格的部分由農會這邊來擔任雇主那就是像剛剛委員提到像包含勞健保部分都是由農會這邊來做"},{"start":670.367,"end":686.627,"text":"就是他是雇主所以就是有農會這邊來負責相關的行政作業然後再依據農民的需求登記然後來調度這樣子那我們在這個部分我們也給予一些行政資源的支持對那就是我們目前在做這個跨區外展的一個調度人力運用的方式"},{"start":687.228,"end":699.434,"text":"好 謝謝黃課長的說明所以聽起來聘僱主體就是農會是或者是未來如果其他的單位需求的話也可以成立類似的這個聘僱的這個實體來做執行聽起來是這樣的意思"},{"start":704.136,"end":716.933,"text":"是跟我們報告這個部分我們因為現在是示範期間我們先就是投比較小規模的希望可以建立這樣子的先把這個模式建立起來然後我們再來擴大到其他的那個縣市跟單位來辦理"},{"start":717.622,"end":746.133,"text":"好那不過相關的進度也是還是可以給我們一個報告讓我們來做參考好那謝謝黃科長那黃科長請回座那這部分我相信應該洪部長也非常認同這樣的做法我們期待這樣的做法可以讓我們在這個對於農業的缺工造成實質上的幫助因為在院會的時候在立法院院會或行政院會的時候"},{"start":747.642,"end":773.283,"text":"那個陳俊基部長就坐右邊了所以我其實常常就是在跟他討論這個問題大家兩部要怎麼一起合作來來克服所以也很謝謝農業部這次願意在這次移工的政惡申請裡面然後願意承諾是以試驗率作為一個前提條件的引進這部分也謝謝農業部在這有跨出這樣子一步好謝謝其外兩部會可以繼續來努力"},{"start":773.988,"end":781.631,"text":"那針對於這個精進勞工結社權的部分簡單的就針對於我國在2026年而以已經跟美方達成的台美"},{"start":782.39,"end":806.591,"text":"對等貿易協定 ART 的簽署 後續需要做相關的審議根據這個文本 我國應該在生肖日期五年裡面針對勞工結社權的下列四項進行法規的調適包括降低中小企業勞工籌組工會門檻還有確保全國性的聯合工會組織沒有最低代表性的門檻要求"},{"start":807.211,"end":822.326,"text":"還有建立選擇或解散工會的適當機制以及罷工等集體行動的適當投票門檻我們也知道降低工會籌組的門檻會涉及到工會的同意權、會務價、複數工會競爭等配套需要討論事關重大"},{"start":826.65,"end":848.966,"text":"社會的溝通就刻不容返所以請部長可以承諾兩點第一點就是協定通過以後勞動部應該儘速啟動修法制社會溝通工程第二點就是協定通過以後請勞動部於三個月內向本委員會就如何安排社會溝通的這個期程規劃與目標提出書面報告這部分"},{"start":849.988,"end":857.167,"text":"跟文說明其實這個部分就針對傑瑟全在這次台美的ART裡面的承諾當然是五年的時間"},{"start":858.584,"end":885.785,"text":"那我們目前我們會盡快的來進行因為這個法規上面其實各種的評估跟研究的工作因為這裡面會牽涉到不只是解釋權的門檻包括有這個工會相關的一些權利那怎麼樣去做評估跟設計所以前面會先有一段是法規的研究委託的部分我們會先進行到後面當然還會有包括利害關係團體"},{"start":887.887,"end":906.903,"text":"包括勞方包括資方把大家的意見來去做各種彙整跟收集所以的確會需要一些時間但有些部分也許假設比較快的部分我們可以儘快一點來進行可是這的確會涉及到這其實是一個蠻大的制度上面的調整法規的調整所以它會有一個過程"},{"start":908.055,"end":925.737,"text":"所以至少我們希望能夠三個月裡面就開始啟動這個啟程的規劃跟目標這部分就請部長能夠給我們這方面的數目報告那最後一個就是有關於準所受雇醫師加保的權益那這部分麻煩那個勞保局的白局長"},{"start":926.698,"end":949.129,"text":"一起來討論就是診所受雇醫師的加保權益事實上部長在當委員的時候也十分的關注這個議題這些醫師作為勞保孤兒這個部分的狀態好像一直沒有辦法得到解決一個就是在固定診所當其他的醫事人員都有投保也成立了投保單位的時候"},{"start":950.119,"end":965.072,"text":"卻選擇性沒有幫這個在這個診所的醫師加保雖然已經勞動部有函示要加保可是卻苦於沒有強力沒有強制力解能輔導所以讓這個醫師的加保造成了困境"},{"start":965.592,"end":991.303,"text":"第二個就是說如果這個醫事在多診所受雇的話就算想要加保職業公會也會被勞保局拒絕無法投保職業公會所以在相關政策討論一議之前那是不是可以請我們的勞動部勞保局會同衛福部能夠整理勾結出這兩種大概的統計數字讓我們在進一步做研討的時候能夠做有效的掌握來進行政策的推薦"},{"start":992.419,"end":1020.395,"text":"這部分部長或者是局長有一個意見 跟委員這邊做報告那因為本以契約自由的原則 但診所跟醫師之間的勞務關係不一定一定是雇佣 不過如果委員這邊有提到固定診所跟多診所受雇他們的一個加保情況 我們依委員這邊的一個建議 我們跟衛福部這邊來研議 在符合各執法的前提下 因為醫師的名冊由衛福部提供給勞動部這邊 那如果這個資料我們可以拿到 我們來做資料的勾結 提供給委員這邊做參考"},{"start":1021.73,"end":1027.744,"text":"好 那就麻煩部長 麻煩局長好 謝謝主席好 謝謝王振興委員發言委員會預告"}]}},{"id":"168378","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168378","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7720296edbe9e1fc30a49e36d97d29c5f775daf2063192877b00dc349e71b59095ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"11:04:14 - 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我們請洪部長也請洪部長"},{"start":22.66,"end":37.811,"text":"黃委員好 部長好 今天大家關心這個外籍移工的這個問題 那其實我以彰化這邊為例 彰化中小企業是全台灣最多的一個地方 所以聘請 聘僱這個外籍移工"},{"start":38.611,"end":53.141,"text":"應該也算是非常的多啦那其實我也常聽到一些老闆就在講說那個外籍移工第一個可能就是說他們希望能夠有更就剛剛淑芬講的啦就是說"},{"start":53.961,"end":76.738,"text":"第一個是不是可以不用透過仲介然後直聘啦這個我相信很多這個地方的這個企業可能有這樣的一個想法那我希望就是說未來讓所有的這個中小企業他們直接這聘僱外籍移工能夠更加的便利直接就可以這個上網直接直接"},{"start":77.538,"end":84.182,"text":"就可以聘到這個外籍移工那另外我想請教就是說目前這個在台灣的這個外籍移工從這個2011年這個38萬多人到2026年的1月這個估計已經到目前為止是86萬人那這個人數是持續在成長那未來我們現在開放"},{"start":102.032,"end":121.847,"text":"這個家事的這個移工之後我相信應該會再增加這個從86萬應該會再增加搞不好會破百萬也不一定那這其中有一部分可能有十多萬是這個在台灣失聯的這個移工那我想說"},{"start":122.768,"end":147.038,"text":"部長在台灣這個失聯的移工從疫情期間到現在其實是每一年都一直持續在增加當中確實應該地方的人可能都會知道說哪些地方就是有這個失聯移工在那邊工作"},{"start":148.621,"end":154.91,"text":"我就覺得很奇怪那既然知道有這樣的一個狀況那失聯移工會衍生的一些問題確實"},{"start":159.312,"end":179.203,"text":"部長你應該也知道失聯移工會碰到的一些狀況一些問題我不知道說為什麼我們政府到現在也不會很強力去解決那另外就是說怎麼樣去解決這麼多的這個失聯移工逃跑移工"},{"start":180.883,"end":208.551,"text":"第一個是不是要改善這個移工的這個工作環境或者是這個工作的待遇或者是整個這個尤其是那個家事移工那是不是整個工作環境也要有所改善能夠減少這樣的一個移工的一個逃跑或者是移工的失聯我不知道說部長你們針對這一部分有沒有做怎樣的一個統計那怎麼樣做一個改善"},{"start":209.076,"end":234.201,"text":"跟有人說明第一個其實我們是很重視私人移工的問題那我們也必須坦白說這個由內政部的專勤隊那在事後來去做各種的查處那這個在草堡之前他會有做法好但是我們其實個人認為恐怕我們必須更從源頭的角度來看待這個事情我們為什麼"},{"start":236.141,"end":256.315,"text":"我們也認真的認為應該要針對這個目前的公平招募的問題大力推動一個很重要的原因是因為我們確實看到當一個移工他為了來台灣他要來付仲介費問招募費他付的金額越高的時候是"},{"start":257.116,"end":277.455,"text":"他失联的机会就越高当移工因为要来台湾工作他欠下的债务越多的时候他失联的比例就越高所以我们的公平招募的推动里面就是希望要降低移工必须来台湾付的钱跟他会欠的债务"},{"start":278.055,"end":304.148,"text":"好那你們怎麼去解決就是說你們既然都知道是這樣的一個狀況那你們怎麼解決就是說這個未還委員會每一年幾乎甚至每個會期都會提到這個外籍移工的相關的問題在委員會這邊討論那我也希望就是說每一次討論都要有一些進度大家關心的議題都要有一些進度那剛剛部長你講的就是說"},{"start":304.808,"end":318.919,"text":"可能仲介他要來台灣這個仲介費對一個醫工來講是一個很大的負擔那也許這個仲介費高的話他可能逃跑的機率也會高他變得他要去做其他打工然後"},{"start":319.699,"end":341.493,"text":"做高報酬的這樣的工作的機會會更大這會提高他的失聯率所以降低移工來台的欠債我認為其實也是改善失聯率其中一個非常非常重要的方式我們也聽到一些廠商當他們用公平招募的做法來招募移工以後他們跟我們說移工的失聯率是大幅降低的"},{"start":342.961,"end":369.806,"text":"那既然都知道是這個狀況那我們是不是未來會有更多的這個家事移工我們現在不是那個12歲以下就可以聘這個外籍看護那像這樣子的話是不是針對未來進來的這種移工的部分第一個我覺得這個仲介費我覺得是一個非常大的每一次他們在講就是說他的第一年"},{"start":370.546,"end":397.801,"text":"就是來臺灣的第一年的工作的薪資幾乎就付了他母國的那個那個仲介費那還不算每個月的這個服務費一千多塊的這個服務費所以我覺得就是說為什麼這麼多委員一直非常在意就是說就是國對國的這個職聘是不是可以慢慢來推動就是當然這個部長講了有很多的問題目前需要去克服"},{"start":399.482,"end":425.332,"text":"總是要跨出第一步跨出第一步那是不是可以從未來我們現在這個開放的部分你就可以先試就可以先試著去做了對跟跟跟我們說明第一個其實這也是為什麼我們認為其實但就像剛才幾位委員講到公平招募的制度在國際上面推動看起來他會對雇主的的這個他要負的雇主負擔的這部分可能會增加一些是"},{"start":425.672,"end":444.674,"text":"可是如果綜合的來看的時候他可能可以讓移工的這個相關的人士也相對更穩定試驗率會降低這部分其實對雇主也是有幫助的是所以我們也在跟雇主很多的雇主在討論這個同樣的概念那往前推進好所以今天在這個做法上面但"},{"start":445.795,"end":463.585,"text":"從後端他如果失聯發生了以後在移民署這邊他去做各種的查處這部分還是必須做而且不能夠鬆掉但我們也開始要思考更多是在源頭的部分那源頭部分比方我再舉個例子跟委員說比方說其實像農業移工的失聯率一直是居高不下的"},{"start":464.145,"end":491.695,"text":"所以我們近期也不斷的在跟農業部討論希望農業部跟他相關的這些事業單位應該要來研議一個在源頭管理上面改善失聯的狀況所以我們也因為目前在這狀況所以幾個月跟農業部討論下來這一次在農業移工的這個名額的放寬上面農業部來跟我們提所以我們第一次跟他設定了你要降低失聯率作為放寬名額的門檻的做法"},{"start":492.935,"end":521.762,"text":"所以經過幾個月的討論以後農業部這一次也願意以降低失聯率從原本現在接近可能9點多%分階段來降低失聯率來可以獲取更多的名額那我覺得這對於我們要提供給農業確實農業有缺工的狀況所以我們一方面提供名額給農業單位可是另外一方面也要他在這個管理上移工的管理上面要拿出更有效的做法所以這幾件事情相互相承這也是我們希望要從源頭來降低失聯率相關的做法"},{"start":522.923,"end":537.28,"text":"我們希望就是說這個外籍移工的這個問題每一個會期我相信每個會期召委就是每個召委都會排有關移工的這個問題我們希望就是說每個會期談的應該都要有一些進度是 當然"},{"start":537.921,"end":550.54,"text":"另外就是說我們看到這個美國對於在去年的時候就是有針對我們台灣的那個自行車的製造業可能有做一些針對就是說我們台灣的這個"},{"start":553.784,"end":579.123,"text":"這個自行車的製造業巨大集團那有被認為就是說雇用的這個移工的工作待遇構成強迫勞動那發布說史上首次對台灣本土的這個戰扣令那這個戰扣令短短三週內巨大還有美利達這兩個自行車龍頭他們都回應然後並實施新的政策所有的新聘移工的仲介費服務費還有相關的規費都有公司全額負擔那我"},{"start":581.565,"end":598.052,"text":"我想請問的就是說部長這個這個狀況變成說由國外由國外這樣子對我們國內的這個自行車業者這樣子的一個戰扣令之後然後短短三週內就就就把這個"},{"start":599.452,"end":628.446,"text":"感覺好像我們原本一直在推動的這個政策還不如人家這樣子的一個戰口令喔所以我想請教這個部長就是說未來像類似這樣子的一個大廠當然他有辦法去負擔這個我們移工的這個仲介費或服務費或相關的規費那一般的中小企業其實這個大廠底下可能還有一些協力廠商那這些協力廠商未來也需要也需要去做這樣的一個"},{"start":629.507,"end":654.048,"text":"去針對這個服務費或者是仲介費去做負擔那我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分中小企業他可能本來他聘僱的他的資金沒有那麼大所以要再去付這樣的一個仲介費確實會有很大的一個負擔所以我想請教部長就是說未來這樣的一個狀況我們勞動部怎麼去協助這些中小企業來解決這樣的一個問題"},{"start":655.189,"end":678.677,"text":"跟委員說明其實目前國際上面我們可以看得到其實在推動公平招募或者是防止強迫勞動這部分我們可以看到有幾個路徑一個路徑大概就像剛剛講到這個美國政府他是用一個海關CPP的做法來去做要求那的確沒有錯比方歐盟可能在2027年的12月他的FLR就是這個"},{"start":681.269,"end":697.977,"text":"強迫勞動相關的這個商品的管制其實也會他都是用一個區域的公權力量來處理所以我們當然在我們公權上也要有角色但同時有另外一個路徑其實是關於國際上面的供應鏈的一些商業集合的做法所以我們接下來我們也希望"},{"start":699.237,"end":715.653,"text":"我們也要跟這些國際供應鏈的商業機制的集合我們也應該要跟他們做一些合作所以讓商業機制從國際供應鏈的角度可以切入那勞工部我們也必須從一個公權力或法規的角度來去切入包括在這裡面的輔導"},{"start":716.934,"end":745.08,"text":"包括剛剛就像委員會剛剛淑芬我們在談到的職聘的這個問題因為的確會有一些這個企業他們現在看到的這個問題的中心他們希望政府多幫他們政府多提供一些服務不一定一定都非得去找人力仲介但人力仲介還會存在可是我自己也認為政府提供的服務要成為另外一個具可進性的選項這也是為什麼我們現在必須要把服務的量能提高必須讓流程給簡化"},{"start":746.4,"end":766.219,"text":"甚至流程簡化以外也要有更多的部分是由政府來提供直接的服務那以至於到剛剛在講這個後面的這個相關制度上面的調整我說這幾件事情其實都必須多管齊下恐怕不容易只用單一的做法那部長你講的那麼多啦總是要有一個進度嘛是"},{"start":767.248,"end":784.286,"text":"對啊 那你們未來要有一些進度不是說在這邊講一講 然後我覺得勞動部你們本身自己部裡面的人力可能也要要做這麼多事情 那你們目前的人力應該可以去負擔這麼多的工作嗎"},{"start":785.647,"end":814.522,"text":"那當然就是說因為再增加的這些工作那我們也希望有一些進度那我希望就部長因為每次委員會在這邊都會提到不是我們今天講一講之後然後可能又隔了幾個月這個問題又提出來問我們希望就是說下一次你講的時候我們確實是做到什麼樣的程度讓企業可以透過我們國對國的這個職聘然後就可以很容易的聘到這個外籍義工我們希望說"},{"start":815.262,"end":832.261,"text":"确实要有一些进度跟我们刚才在讲说从指引的发布到现在辅导机制跟经济部合作的推动到后面我们会来处理仲介评鉴的问题到职聘的部分我们也会在制度上面做出调整那"},{"start":832.501,"end":848.047,"text":"沒有錯這裡面其實對我們組織來說對勞務部組織來說它是一個人力上面會增加的挑戰所以同時我們在這時間其實也正在跟行政院跟人總希望能夠爭取更多的員額能夠協助我們來把我們的行政的量能給擴大"},{"start":849.548,"end":872.839,"text":"所以這裡面會有一些相互的配套目前同步也都在進行我們希望就是說你們要服務的勞工這麼多然後還有外籍移工那外籍移工碰到的問題也非常多希望說能夠在一定的時間內趕快把大家期待的這個部分趕快把它完成好不好謝謝謝謝黃秀芳委員發言接下來請王振旭委員發言"}]}},{"id":"168377","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168377","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7fc18d98c4bd1fbe8ff16f9abdda18f34775daf20631928778a94a20e7e7dac435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"11:27:29 - 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物用藥的一個市場其實沒有那麼大的一個規模"},{"start":96.557,"end":114.644,"text":"所以呢其實有很多的動物用藥用的是所謂的人用的一個藥物那麼長期以來在一線的這些臨床的這個獸醫師他們其實在這個部分的用藥的掌握其實他們也具有這個專業的一個水準啦齁但是問題就在於這段時間到七月上路我只剩下不到三個月的一個時間重點是"},{"start":116.545,"end":132.538,"text":"要不要管 不是要不要管的問題而是未來我的小朋友我的毛小孩的命能不能夠救得到這個才是最大的一個問題的所在那我想這也是最近大家一直在就是在這個部分的一個爭議點那畫面當中看到的這個偶遺是在我的辦公室那導輝是在我們家我自己身為五毛的一個家長"},{"start":138.283,"end":154.294,"text":"其實我個人在光今年的二月份我們家這兩隻貓不管是住院也好治療也好或者是打針也好開刀也好其實我都經歷過這樣子的一個四組心就懸在那裡的這樣子的一個恐慌那我想要問的是"},{"start":156.682,"end":163.067,"text":"將來這個7月上路之後我的第一線急救的用藥能不能夠及時取得如果我還要獸醫師開藥單我要四組自己到藥局去把藥找回來請問這中間的時程如果被耽擱了我的動物因為敗血症只要有醫案就好了請問這個要誰負責再來四組的"},{"start":179.119,"end":200.356,"text":"所有的增加的一個成本誰來負責再來為什麼我們的獸醫師他沒有用藥的一個自主權這是我今天想要提出的一個這樣子的一個問題喔如果在夜間跟緊急用藥該怎麼辦不要講別的我住在算蛋黃啊就是中山區跟大安區的交界啊我們家附近的一個藥局大概就是晚上八點半就已經關門"},{"start":201.337,"end":221.928,"text":"如果我拿著藥丹 我要急著救命我的小孩 我的毛小孩其實已經躺在醫院了他有可能因為帶血症咧那請問這個部分誰來負責好 那現在呢 其實我們之前也跟這個房間署副署長其實我們也在我辦公室已經有討論到這樣子的一個問題如果七月份上路非常的倉促 賽捷卡稱"},{"start":227.653,"end":237.305,"text":"我真的不知道列管當中的701項的藥物現在登記的只有216項是不到三成的這樣子的一個結果還有很多這個216項當中是重複的一個用藥這個劑型是差不多的"},{"start":241.671,"end":261.708,"text":"請問這400多項三個月之內有可能嗎藥商願意嗎如果他們沒有想要有登錄或者是想要主動來登錄的這樣子的一個意願的話請問我該怎麼辦有沒有考慮到現在我們都是用正面表列的一個方式喔那請問負面表列的方向我們可不可以來考量"},{"start":262.248,"end":276.077,"text":"那如果這樣子的一個政策7月份來講對大家來說都太倉促了我們家的毛小孩這個命懸一夕呀那請問到底誰能夠負責我講白了齁這個獸醫師我們是要用這個人用的藥物來救動物沒有錯吧現在我們很多的這個獸醫師我相信其實公視農業部我們好多的獸醫師有資格的獸醫師都在這個地方再來藥師他必須依法要把關人用的一個藥物好再來"},{"start":292.809,"end":308.506,"text":"誰管人用的藥物 衛福部管再來 問題是誰管動物的藥物 我們農業部管好了 四個全部都分出去但中間產生了很大的一個空窗請問這個空窗誰來補 市主來補嗎市主已經是全額在支付所謂的這個"},{"start":309.787,"end":322.275,"text":"毛小孩 我們的全台灣總共340萬隻的毛小孩他要全額支付他的醫療的費用那請問這增加的成本 周車勞動的成本可能拿不到藥的成本 請問這個部分誰要來負責 請部長告訴我7月份上路 會不會太倉促"},{"start":330.117,"end":350.123,"text":"第一個我想先謝謝委員對於寵物的這些用藥的一個關心那現在外界在爭執的其實是在藥物的一個管理可是以農業部來講其實我們更重要的要守護的就是我們的寵物的生命權跟他的醫療權利這是我們的政策"},{"start":352.143,"end":369.968,"text":"那在這個政策之下才去討論我們用要怎麼樣去做一個有效的管理那我想之前的這些法預計在7月1號實施的這些法它之前定有它之前的一個背景但是在這一兩天我們跟衛福部其實已經有"},{"start":371.188,"end":392.006,"text":"越來越多的一個共識包括一些用藥的還包含氧氣對不對用藥的寄存可以到動物醫院但是我們不以這個為滿足我想我們應該以這個為基礎之下因為有很多負面表列的藥其實才是救命藥我們會持續的再去跟衛護部做一個溝通我想我們在這個基礎之下會再溝通那在"},{"start":393.223,"end":401.49,"text":"還是強調一點喔請問這個溝通我們4月10號會在黃檢署是不是要開一個會我想我們在黃檢署的內部會議就是做一個有效的溝通現在變成內部會議應該利害關係人的會議啦就是請問與會的會有誰我想有各個利害關係團體嘛獸醫師全聯會然後呢食藥署還有農業部所以本來是預計可以開放啦我聽說連線上都取消了對不對"},{"start":424.147,"end":442.999,"text":"現在有開放視訊可以視訊我今天為什麼會提出這個問題因為我不希望這個七月倉促上路之後我們看到的是獸醫師在救命但問題是我的自主在跑藥局我想請委員放心我剛才強調就是宜蘿伊布里長一定要確保我們毛小孩寵物的用"},{"start":443.399,"end":459.014,"text":"生命權沒有達到這個目的的話我們不會所以我最後問一句我最後問一句就好如果我的生命權有可能會出現風險出現破口出現空窗請問這樣子的一個制度可不可以分階段上路或者是延緩可不可以這個就在我們討論的範圍之內因為後續的是選項嗎"},{"start":463.118,"end":468.76,"text":"一定是一個選項後面呢我想衛福部跟我們有越來越多的一個共識那我們朝這個基礎之下再繼續的生命絕對不能有空窗現在我們的飼養犬貓的人口是越來越多我們的貓口跟犬口的數量是340萬隻啊這攸關多少的毛小孩的家庭包含我在內"},{"start":486.485,"end":496.976,"text":"所以這個部分我們真的要好好的商量好好的研議到最後我們真的配套能夠到90%再上路可以嗎可以嗎我剛才強調一點沒有確保我們寵物的用醫療權跟生命權的話我不會輕易就啟動這樣一個機制了解 好 謝謝謝謝部長 謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"168373","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168373","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7a0015e64e303d05dff16f9abdda18f34775daf20631928776246a27f61d679685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"11:22:38 - 11:27:20","影片長度":"00:04:42","會議時間":"2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、公平交易委員會代理主任委員、衛生福利部首長、法務部首長及行政院消費者保護處首長就「中東衝突加劇市場不確定性，致國內包括乙烯、塑膠、化肥、瀝青等石化原物料及物流成本增加，屢傳缺料、囤貨現象等之問題評估、因應策略與現況」進行報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-09","start_time":"2026-04-09T11:22:38+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-09T11:27:20+08:00","duration":282,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-8"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.93971875,"end":18.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.82971875,"end":19.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.61846875,"end":21.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.95159375,"end":22.407218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.12784375,"end":28.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.528468750000002,"end":82.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.33034375000001,"end":89.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.08034375000001,"end":118.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.97721875,"end":101.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.37534375000001,"end":128.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.29784375,"end":135.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.41471875000002,"end":145.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.13471875000002,"end":159.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.56721875000002,"end":162.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.47409375,"end":164.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.23721875,"end":167.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.75159375,"end":168.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.96659375000002,"end":169.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.06784375,"end":172.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.30346875,"end":181.16721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.89784375000002,"end":176.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.16721875000002,"end":194.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.83596875,"end":205.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.26471875000001,"end":211.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.94721875000002,"end":212.26784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.55471875,"end":216.11534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.72284375,"end":218.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.58721875,"end":220.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.16096875000002,"end":221.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.85284375,"end":226.66221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.99971875000003,"end":238.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.86284375000002,"end":253.96596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.96596875000003,"end":263.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.69471875,"end":262.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.09096875,"end":281.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.45971875000004,"end":281.21909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.08,"end":17.491,"text":"委員諮詢有請部長 經濟部長請蔣次長部長請假請次委員好"},{"start":29.594,"end":50.4,"text":"市長好 受中東戰事影響 能源價格飆漲 通膨壓力也加劇那許多產業跟民生開始陸續受到衝擊我們大概3月下旬起 就開始出現塑膠袋的價格上漲 通路出現缺貨那小販跟商家首當其衝 那外界稱它為塑膠袋之亂"},{"start":51.44,"end":71.449,"text":"那一直到4月7號經濟部邀全國30個商圈理事長開會都還有零售缺貨訂不到塑膠袋的狀況也有商家說價格仍然上漲那特別中南部缺塑膠袋比較嚴重那供應商擴價仍是空的那我要請教次長經濟部提出增加了5000噸"},{"start":72.87,"end":81.809,"text":"以稀製成塑膠袋的評價專案也說跟通路有溝通那請問大概什麼時候可以解決目前的所有的塑膠袋之亂呢"},{"start":82.643,"end":103.67,"text":"跟委員報告部長有親自跟這個30個商圈的代表做意見的交流其中呢嘉義有特別的表達他們有缺塑膠袋但是我們到昨天已經確認嘉義的部分所有通路商塑膠袋都有的那經濟部呢另外會針對這個塑膠袋會有個平穩的機制所以我們會"},{"start":108.218,"end":133.779,"text":"會提供5000噸的乙烯給我們台塑預計台塑明天就可以出貨接續而且台塑也是答應以平價的方式提供再下游的廠商所以我們希望塑膠袋的供應量以後每天可以增加大概12.5億個"},{"start":136.462,"end":145.401,"text":"好 那我想請教次長你覺得這次如果檢討起來出現這個塑膠袋之亂那最主要原因是什麼大概哪些因素"},{"start":146.189,"end":171.525,"text":"我想有可能有很多的原因一方面可能是有這些民眾有這樣的訊息他們就會增加平常可能買一個那因為有這樣的訊息他可能就會去搶購有訊息端的造成的一個大的搶購可能這也是原因之一對那外面說跟現在中東戰事有關係嗎"},{"start":173.322,"end":187.49,"text":"因為中東的部分還是我們主要進口的這些來源所以它在價格的部分是有影響的所以這是要跟經濟部說一下就是說現在中東的戰事坦白講還相當隱晦不明"},{"start":189.011,"end":218.219,"text":"那之前才昨天說停戰啊今天好像又出現變數那所以相關的不管是油價乃至於相關的原物料的價格的上漲的波動那對台灣的民生的影響這點希望經濟部能夠多加掌握是我們每天都密切觀察我們每天經濟部都會召開能源因應的會議每天召開好那我們請那個公平會的代主委還有我們法務部請陳主委還有法務部"},{"start":220.623,"end":232.634,"text":"好 那想請教一下那我最擔心的問題就是亂象發生並不是單純國際這種不可控的因素剛剛前面有講到經濟部有講到有囤貨台價聯合行為的助長趁機謀利這些問題"},{"start":235.797,"end":262.858,"text":"那3月底時這經濟部的產發署長邱求惠就說有些中盤商、經銷商延緩出貨操作價格那上週是行政院說檢察署跟公平會針對民生跟犯罪聯合行為有啟動調查那我想請教目前調查情況如何各位報告一下那個塑膠袋的部分我們除了配合法務部的聯合稽查小組去調查以外我們自己本身也立案調查那目前已經查了17家廠商"},{"start":264.215,"end":281.267,"text":"那當然因為受到這個戰爭 原物料漲漲問題 那供給還有價格部分 價格是有上漲那供給的部分可能要做一些調整但是就聯合行為 聯合囤貨這部分 我們目前沒有查到有所謂的聯合情況但是我們都持續有在密切的觀察那再麻煩公平會再盯緊一點 是是是以上 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謝謝主席請內政部劉部長休息一下休息一下請這個國度署蔡署長交通部陳次長陳次長請這個署長我們是老朋友又是同鄉"},{"start":35.126,"end":48.831,"text":"這個對您期待非常多 您的專業 您的處理事情的能力本席予以給你高度的肯定先從您的報告來看 這個計畫從1130年到1160年投入400億內政部260億 交通部140億 分4年來執行對不對總算沒有審 還沒有復違"},{"start":61.786,"end":86.15,"text":"會不會影響到這項計畫的預算額度這些都要補助給地方政府去做道路改善以今年度來看影響的預算在那陣子會有多少影響的預算如果啊這個沒有副委那陣子我會沒有審李白沒有審這個會不會影響到今年度預算"},{"start":88.36,"end":116.526,"text":"公務員報告我們大概這個人行空間的這個部分我們大概是延續去年的一個預算是37億那但是我們因為這個預算的部分沒有核定所以我們在跟各縣市政府的一個核定的時間其實已經有落後就事態難行嘛本來1月要做的現在變成5月可能到年底才能做對對對這個部分已經有落後那我們也擔心說以後預算的是否會通過這個最大受害者就是用路人"},{"start":118.035,"end":145.102,"text":"就是市民朋友 就是所有台灣人民 對不對所以我覺得還是以昌生為念這個該審的預算還是要趕快審 該通過預算通過之後 政策跟計畫才能確實去執行來 交通部陳次長陳次長影響到這個計畫 交通部的部分有多少錢我們115年編的"},{"start":150.024,"end":177.873,"text":"20.4億那如果總額預算沒審呢總額預算沒審的話原則上我們會就是工程也會延後對實行也會造成困難對不對該做的可能又延後做可能有一些就不能做了但是如果地方我們有一些預審的機制所以會那預審你到最後還是錢要撥下去嗎對但是錢要撥的話就有它的困難好謝謝市長先回座還是繼續請教一下蔡署長"},{"start":183.348,"end":208.773,"text":"這個我們都來自岡山岡山有很多重要的這個交通建設需要你大力支持當然這個國路署我這個很多預算來協助特別我舉幾項這個大概我跟你講過大概也好多次了朱公園窟中正路接南梓園港路要炮通這是國路署一件路案但是沒有經費菜寮路"},{"start":209.622,"end":235.085,"text":"也講了快三年了高雄市政府也包上來另外湖內區的東方路連接生醫社區道路開閉也講了三年了我希望今天在這邊特別跟你拜託是不是這三項能夠支持今年就把預算合計這個是地方所有的市民朋友因應其判判了三年不能讓他再判第四年"},{"start":236.533,"end":262.131,"text":"署長 你答應一下 你say yes一下跟委員報告齁你如果say yes我要請部長上來不是 我們有固定的這個提報程序我知道啦 但是我要希望你說這起碼你心理上是支持的嘛我說你心理上支持 你沒有說預算上一定馬上要支持嘛心理上支持 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after的評估所以剛才特別講到"},{"start":253.693,"end":282.262,"text":"即便我們人本的這個計畫我們也有相關的評估說它是改善有什麼樣的一個成效那委員剛才特別提到說如果說有重大事故其實重大事故大概都是指死亡的事故那死亡的事故我們了解各縣市的這個道安會報他們或者警察單位他們都會針對這個來做個案的review來尋求這個到底是如何造成的然後再繼續改善都會有"},{"start":284.122,"end":305.988,"text":"那我們中央 因為錢是中央撥的嘛那中央這邊等於就他們他的成效會顯現在他的這個道安的這個整體的死亡人數上那我們每個月都會去review他這樣各縣市的一個情形來督促他們做改善所以有 我們有KPI嗎"},{"start":307.17,"end":333.688,"text":"有啊我們每個縣市我們大概都有因為我們宣告說有降一定的比例所以每個縣市我們都會有給他自己的成效跟自己比每一年大概是減少多少怎麼樣每個月的情形怎麼樣然後如果每個月的情形有惡化的趨勢的話我們就會特別提醒他要做相關的改善像這些KPI人民會知道嗎人民看得到嗎"},{"start":334.028,"end":357.615,"text":"我們把這樣的一個各縣市的一個成果公布在我們的所謂的交通總動員上 安全的總動員上人民還是可以看得到各縣市的一個成果那個是不是有什麼要補充給次郎不是 他是要告訴我說網站 我們交通安全總動員的網站那本席也想請教就是說 因為"},{"start":360.048,"end":375.801,"text":"這個政府在施政然後給經費然後地方政府執行那真正感受的或者是好壞就是民眾像這一些比如說我們的KBI裡面有沒有民調有沒有座談會或公聽會"},{"start":378.411,"end":407.114,"text":"再更細的話 各縣市政府呢因為我們每一年大概都會有盜安就是你們給經費你們在這一塊的掌握我現在就講說他每一年我們都會有盜安督導匯報到各縣市去就是去督導那督導的時候呢他們都會提出他們的相關的一個民意調查的一個結果所以這個是給經費的時候必要的一定要有民調這在各縣市政府都會來做有做房會或公聽會嗎"},{"start":408.693,"end":425.528,"text":"座談會公聽會就要依照他自己改善的一個必要性他會來召開本席這樣問的意思就是說因為我們中央給經費是不是可以有一些明確的規範要地方政府一起來做譬如剛剛我們一開始提到的"},{"start":426.068,"end":451.804,"text":"他改善了結果還是一直發生那有這種情況的時候我們等於是給經費的中央單位對地方的規範是什麼有沒有明確一點我們在相關的申請須知裡頭或者相關的規範裡頭都有要求連續三年要將他的改善的情形來提報出來所以有連續的追蹤的機制在裡面然後有沒有確實執行"},{"start":453.815,"end":477.328,"text":"當然要啊 他有這樣的話因為我們呢是在我們交通部是由公路局各區的這個工程處他們來負責督導所以他們每個月都會有跟相關的交通或公路工程的單位來做討論所以現在除了交通部 那內政部拿了260億的話那內政部這邊的督導我相信內政部應該也有一定的機制"},{"start":477.888,"end":505.029,"text":"報告委員我們各地的警察局跟交通隊天天都在宣導交通安全所以不是只有技術面的改善宣導當然是一塊那宣導的部分就是也是在做民調我們是針對工程的成效還有民眾的感受軟硬體都要一起但是本席問的是這一塊而且每個里長或者是鄉鎮長如果有這樣子的狀況的話我們幾乎都會到現場因為那個各地警察都會有交通隊他們一定都知道這個狀況所以會"},{"start":506.65,"end":521.849,"text":"所以我們國土署給下去的經費那如果改善之後還是發生了這種重大事故我們有這種機制報告委員您把這個實際上的案例告訴我們一定會來檢討改進"},{"start":523.89,"end":551.023,"text":"所以我本席今天質詢最大的重點就是說人本交通它不只是工程更重要的是責任我們希望可以把這種理念變成一種制度再把制度變成責任那我們最後我們政府的這種責任就是要把它變成每一條讓人民真正安全的道路這一塊我們希望的是落實而且是讓民眾感受得到"},{"start":551.82,"end":552.203,"text":"好 謝謝部長跟次長 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168403","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168403","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7b9fd49c8a5b6e553b509ad0e4ca3d866155eb231b4402889db33f131730d363f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:18:56 - 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部長 次長今天我們討論這個交通的議題那本席要點出一個重點就是我們測速照相的一個部分我想我們的召委也都非常關心我們可以先請教一下不管是部長或次長我們測速照相的目的到底是什麼"},{"start":36.857,"end":66.378,"text":"可以按開麥克風 來 市長簡單講 這不是陷阱題啦你就是講 車速照相的目的是什麼其實大家都知道速度的管理速度是對交通安全是有一定的影響啦所以車速照相或取地我們要的是要安全啦我們是希望能夠提升用路人的安全然後不是說我要為了要罰錢 對不對好 感謝那再來 全台灣到目前全台灣我們現在有多少次的車速照相"},{"start":71.288,"end":88.112,"text":"委員好跟委員報告現在全台灣的測速桿的部分一共有18861886那我們一年全台灣這樣子有多少的這個超速的案件平均下來每一支一年會拍幾張測速照相有沒有這樣的統計我們有"},{"start":93.854,"end":112.903,"text":"這都不是陷阱題我們現在很客觀實務的來討論就是說我們的超速的問題以及我們怎麼樣防範有沒有一個數據譬如說我們全台灣一千八百多支測速照相機大家有沒有一個思考點或是說有好奇心那一支平均一年會拍幾張測速照相超速"},{"start":118.953,"end":144.048,"text":"平均的話是我們這邊沒有說一個確實的一個等級但是現在每一年的測數是有慢慢在遞減有慢慢遞減沒關係那有沒有沒有平均概念差不多一支三千件兩千件平均的話大概一件一支大概也會有"},{"start":145.357,"end":173.65,"text":"兩到三千 好兩到三千謝謝來那部長次長我們現在來探討一個重點平均一支測速照相是兩千到三千件那確實的數字可以再調但是本席跟內政部警政署調了一個資料是過去大家沒有去想到的那就到底是全六都縣市前十名的測速照相他的弱點集中在哪邊以及他拍的案件數有多少你看一下台南"},{"start":175.421,"end":202.037,"text":"第一名是台南第一名我們看到是這個永康區的這個高速一階他有八千多件一年那即便是到第十名他也有兩千多件那我為什麼會請同仁會去畫這個顏色呢就代表說連續三年他前十名基本上都是這一些測數照相的地點那換言之是什麼"},{"start":202.597,"end":228.022,"text":"就代表說這前十名其實都是很搶錢的一個測速照相而有沒有去做改善如果說你真的認為說那個地方有安全疑慮的話我們就應該重點著手譬如說從道路的設計從標線的規劃從事前的指引告訴用路人說這個地方相對來講很容易被拍照所以你應該要去做調整但很遺憾的是從112年、130年到114年的資料"},{"start":230.882,"end":252.538,"text":"前十名基本上都是這一些那我就想啦是不是只有台南是這個樣子不是喔我們再來看台北市我們剛剛講說全台灣一年一隻測速照相是兩千到三千件但你看台北市第一名有幾千件上萬兩萬多件是我們全台測速照相的七倍之多"},{"start":253.82,"end":271.616,"text":"那什麼意思就代表說在這個地點裡面經過的用路人很明顯的在那邊就容易超速那但是超速的成因到底是那邊的速限明顯比用路人的觀感來的低還是說那裡的道路設計真的有問題讓民眾經過那邊的時候沒有辦法減速"},{"start":275.74,"end":304.475,"text":"那如果說只是一年來就算了可是你看連續三年111年 112年 113年到114年第一名全部都是水源快速道路往南所以換言之大家即便是在那邊被拍拍到怕了可是還是沒有解決問題啊就是說用路人沒有因為說你的道路設計變慢或是說你的道路設計怎麼樣調整讓用路人到那邊自然而然可以相對比較慢的速度而"},{"start":305.031,"end":319.437,"text":"反而一直被拍照那這樣子只變成是說用路人沒有辦法解決安全的問題國庫增加沒有錯可是我們的目的並不是要罰款嘛我們的目的是要讓大家能夠安全的減速嘛是不是這樣子"},{"start":320.573,"end":348.289,"text":"跟委員報告其實委員有點出這個重點所以從去年的12月開始就有委員跟在我們內政或者是交通委員會都有特別點出來所以我們就開始有邀請過交通部跟專家學者還有我們地方政府來做一個研討我們有修正就是取締一般交通違規的作業程序針對測速桿的這些設置我們有訂了一些原則"},{"start":349.059,"end":366.314,"text":"跟要汰換的一些機制每半年要去檢討一次所以我們這個部分我們已經在逐漸但重點在你不是說在這邊因為拍的多或少然後你如果說一開始如同市長開宗明義表達其實測速照相我們的用意跟目的都是為了安全"},{"start":366.954,"end":392.815,"text":"那應該重點在於是說我們針對這前十名好一千多隻我沒有辦法一年全部改善但是每年至少每都都改善前十名他的道路設計有沒有可以更精進讓用路人經過的時候可以自然來放慢速度因為我們知道嘛從過去這幾年大家講行人地獄或是說我們參考日本政府的做法其實日本很大的一個觀念都是他們從道路設計著手"},{"start":394.356,"end":423.625,"text":"讓大家自然而然比較在那個地方沒有辦法開快那自然而然他的肇事率就會下降所以這需要什麼配合第一需要內政部警政署的配合因為你要了解這個資料我已經幫你整理出來了這也是警政署提供給我的資料第二要交通部跟內政部國土署這邊去針對這至少前十名如果每年我們都可以改善前十名那這前十名他也許預期到今年這個第一名他就不會是第一名了"},{"start":424.229,"end":449.856,"text":"那這樣子自然而然民怨可以下降可是安全也可以提升還有更重要的是我們確實有對症下藥來 再來看一下新北市本席的選區就有三個地方石門 林口 泰山都是本席選區而這連續三年都榜上有名甚至第一名石門區這個台二線27.5它就變成是每年都五六千件 六七千件"},{"start":450.436,"end":477.702,"text":"那就代表我相信不是人經過石門特別愛超速嘛而是應該是那邊的道路設計看似比較寬容易超速或者是說那裡的速限相對明顯定的比較低還是有什麼樣的一個考量但是如果你沒有改善我今天不是要取消測速照相喔我今天是說應該要針對這前十名你要去了解他的成因為何該改善的地方要改善那這才能夠真真正正的把"},{"start":478.809,"end":494.596,"text":"我們講說頭痛醫頭 腳痛醫腳但是現在你看到頭痛了你不能只醫腳啊你要看到頭痛的地方你要醫頭啊所以本席才講說這是對症下藥所以可不可以具體的承諾因為今天我覺得這個事情它會是一個比較中長期的計畫"},{"start":495.416,"end":512.292,"text":"但我期待的是內政部、交通部兩個部會要合作把這個資料給調出來之後每年針對各縣市的前10名的測數照相多的地方它就是違規熱點違規熱點就應該地方政府跟中央一起共同配合先優先針對這10個、20個違規熱點來去做一個改善可以嗎"},{"start":518.218,"end":546.533,"text":"是 這部分我們會來處理那其實 感謝啦 您的保證我很感謝可是我還是想要聽到部長跟次長的說明來 是不是部長跟次長因為我覺得這就是一個大議題我覺得不能只是丟給警政署或不能只丟給國土署當然委員長久在關心這個交通的問題那我想跟委員報告一下我們本來就有中央級的大安匯報也有地方級的大安匯報大家都知道測速照相不在於為了要幫地方政府或中央政府搶錢"},{"start":547.373,"end":560.549,"text":"是為了用路人的安全既然是為了用路人安全的話有很多工程技術面的問題呢現在出現的狀況會是像委員所關心的就是我們其實是穿著衣服改衣服啦沒有本來就這樣子看現在車越來越多然後大家都會搶"},{"start":564.774,"end":588.112,"text":"或者是因為交通或是觀光發達的關係所以這個都是後端那所以我們要從頭開始去改善的話我們現在只能說就是一直滾動性的調整所以市長也跟我同樣的一個觀念啦市長當然我的意思是說因為我們要滾動性改善我們也要知道說我們要從哪裡改善當然我們都有一定的資料在改善啊這一個資料就是我以前問過其實沒有這樣的一個資料"},{"start":590.914,"end":609.419,"text":"是我特別發函請警政署去重新統計才有的資料所以我可以把這資料原封不動的再給部長給次長因為過去沒有整理過這個資料但既然我們已經整理出這個資料我就要拜託部長次長好好運用這個資料至少你知道我們前十名他已經是以統計學來講"},{"start":613.68,"end":635.493,"text":"應該是大多數都在中間但是極端的例子極端的例子就變成是說他就是outlieroutlier就是變成是我們應該要優先去針對的對象讓他改善改善之後讓他趨近於中間那這樣子才符合統計上的一個意義我了解文官性的部分但是我們是全面性的"},{"start":635.953,"end":663.908,"text":"因為我們認為義照式的路段有容易改善跟困難改善的部分所以我今天給相關的資料次長跟部長這邊可以針對這樣的資料剛剛本席也提到了是不是針對22個縣市來盤點前10名因為我現在整理的是六都那還有其他縣市的部分也需要警政署也需要內政部也需要交通部一起來做那什麼時候可以針對這個資料提供給本席那以及你們要後續做的改善的一個具體成果"},{"start":664.688,"end":683.073,"text":"具體的時程成果兩個月內什麼跟委員報告這個整體的資料就針對委員剛剛所提的我們會再做一個盤點好然後盤點之後我們資料給先盤點的資料我們先送給委員是那整個監察部我們大概要三個月的時間有一定的期程我們來做"},{"start":683.613,"end":711.258,"text":"好那這樣子本席能不能要求就是你盤點22縣市的前10名的這個測數照相的資料一個月內提供那你們要具體怎麼樣跟各縣市來做溝通針對這前10名本席希望看到是每年都針對前10名你就可以有個方法跟有個步驟去把錢花在刀口上真真正正的改善三個月提供改善的相關辦法跟具體的作為一個月提供22縣市的資料這樣可以嗎"},{"start":714.019,"end":729.644,"text":"因為這個牽涉到交通部跟內政部大家共同有關所以你們兩位在這邊太好了所以我才會在招委英明的判案之下我今天特別提出來所以我是不是可以跟委員說明一下原則上內政部他們會把相關的高壓測數的這樣的一個"},{"start":731.605,"end":758.662,"text":"資料提供出來那我們交通部會跟內政部來共同討論也會跟縣市政府來討論因為還是必須要跟縣市政府共同討論然後會有一個改善的方法是怎麼樣三個月內嘛好不好我們提給委員參考再麻煩重點是要執行跟落實方案來落實把錢花在刀口上改善真正容易造勢的路段然後讓安全性能夠提升好不好我們三個月把那個相關的方法提出來好 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謝謝我們召委 我們一位同仁請我們的國土署我們的蔡署長麻煩蔡署長"},{"start":18.599,"end":36.713,"text":"蔡署長針對我們人行道德安全我們推動這幾年推動的街道醫生也受到非常好的好評尤其我們街道醫生我們所提出來的由我們中央這邊全力來推動"},{"start":37.608,"end":66.899,"text":"那本市也了解,在本市的轄區本市的轄區叫土城三峽土城三峽我們中央路那一邊的池溪已經都完工了丁剛我跟我們內政部我們的董事長還有我們的組長蔡組長也有到現場本市比他好關心的地方就能行到,尤其在我們的醫生國小"},{"start":68.205,"end":88.98,"text":"包含明德路那一邊也現在持續在做那就是益生路本席這邊有三個案子就益生路還有學翔街還有三峽的文化路這三個地方益生路這個地方是在我們的校園旁邊尤其是個國小"},{"start":90.232,"end":116.782,"text":"國小園的人行道這都讓小朋友孩童的出入這個地段是一個需要極力的趕快去做改善所以我是說這個地方又是一個校園學區這個地方是不是可以優先列入我們這道醫生所提出來在網路評比這個地方"},{"start":117.303,"end":121.295,"text":"是吉利德應該要來作為優先的考量 新民署長"},{"start":123.84,"end":149.681,"text":"跟委員報告齁 那個街道醫生那個是要依照投票的那剛剛委員的講的應該就是說如果他不是在投票裡面的就是一般放到我們的一般性的評估案裡面那剛剛剛剛提到了目前的這個狀況 因為我們有一些評比有一些權重 那聽起來如果是屬於這些校園周邊的這些重要性的 應該他的最後評比出來的分數應該會很高好 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台灣的原住民族群正義是否有被兼顧到"},{"start":179.344,"end":200.139,"text":"蘇花案這條路會經過非常多的原鄉部落依照原住民族基本法必須落實部落的諮商與同意程序開路本來是好事但絕不能犧牲在地族人的權益現在很多原民族人在問公務局的土地徵收標準到底在哪"},{"start":200.899,"end":222.159,"text":"目前針對土地的徵收費用每坪最高可以到3000元最低卻只有1500元花蓮秀林鄉的和平村目前用最高標準徵收崇德地區的其他原住民部落是不是也可以比照這個標準市長有回應嗎"},{"start":229.332,"end":253.245,"text":"很多原住民鄉親表示為了國家建設同意政府徵收大家的耕地但補償的機制要健全針對公路局目前的徵收計畫本席要問徵收金額的評估標準是什麼能夠確保鄉親有合理公平的補償嗎"},{"start":256.243,"end":278.579,"text":"市長看來你都說不清楚然後我其實已經幫你查好了秀嶺鄉和平村崇德村之間的地價差異不能只看實價登錄崇德市進入太魯閣門戶的觀光重鎮公路局不能只單純用地價來衡量必須再重新檢討徵收差異補償的基準"},{"start":284.72,"end":306.809,"text":"雖然崇德居民過半數同意了這項開發但請記得原基法第21條不是過長的法條更不是部落辦一個公聽會簽個名就可以結束了本席建議交通部可以參考國外的經驗將公路相關收益提撥一定比例回饋當地部落的發展"},{"start":308.001,"end":331.402,"text":"要善用原住民族地區的地理優勢發展觀光觀光是交通部的權責交通部應該要支持原鄉發展各種類型的旅遊方案讓有能力的原住民族人能夠在自己的家鄉發展而不是等蘇花安通過後被迫離開家鄉只能到市區尋找工作機會"},{"start":335.054,"end":341.598,"text":"再來主席要麻煩幫我請那個內政部長一起上台備詢好 麻煩劉部長上備詢台我們來看那個災後重建前陣子花蓮光復鄉馬太安西的那個煙塞湖的那個洪災我的服務團隊一直密集的走訪光復鄉"},{"start":361.229,"end":389.983,"text":"目前光復鄉市區的那個馬太昂部落太巴蘭部落淤泥已經清的差不多了但我要提醒災後重建不能只是輕輕淤泥就了事現在極端氣候已經是常態了連接各個村落的鄉道每次遇到大雨就中斷鄉親根本出不來部落直接成為孤島中央政府在這次重建中有沒有把防災任性納入道路升級的考量"},{"start":391.958,"end":409.244,"text":"所以內政部長這邊也沒有回應本席具體要求民眾要的是一條平常好走 齋時能夠保命的任性道路內政部能不能在這裡具體承諾將關乎市區通往各村鄉的抗災能力納入改善項目"},{"start":411.386,"end":438.623,"text":"希望會有書面的回應中央政府應該要主導而不是推給地方政府光復的鄉親要的是政府有具體行動馬太安溪的淹塞湖是一個沉痛的教訓如果這次我們只會清淤泥鋪柏油再有下一次洪災來的時候就是政府在草菅人命請內政部具體答覆馬太安溪淹塞湖防災的具體時間表"},{"start":442.059,"end":457.028,"text":"交通與居住安全是民眾最基本的需求不論是千億規模的舒花庵還是馬太安溪的災後重建本市要嚴正呼籲賴政府該回來好好做事重視花東民眾的權益謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168400","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168400","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7fad6c669ed519588b509ad0e4ca3d866155eb231b4402889ce33abcfce886a825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"10:58:27 - 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謝謝主席 麻煩我們的內政部部長跟國土署署長麻煩部長跟署長"},{"start":21.956,"end":50.356,"text":"部長早部長指南路二段作為政大商圈的主要路段那人行道也因都跟與徵收的問題沒辦法拓寬那曾因不符交通道路交通標誌跟標線號誌設置的規則標準而沒辦法設紅綠燈造成人車衝突多年那師生也多次陳情呢被總備說他們會塞車的然後被擋回行動不便者呢就是險象環生"},{"start":51.196,"end":69.294,"text":"那最窄的僅74公分今年不同的是學生跟地方人士組成了交通改善小組透過參與式預算及我們的全民參與街道的改善平台來提案成功獲得全額補助那紅綠燈得以設置呢道路得以改善"},{"start":72.257,"end":95.258,"text":"部長這個案例呢很值得肯定的是可是也凸顯了一個問題因為是透過你們的這樣的一個補助才能改善可是如果沒有學生跟民眾站出來的話那這條僅74公分的人行道行人被迫與車爭道的一個狀況是否會因為會塞車而被無限期的擱置呢部長"},{"start":96.275,"end":115.043,"text":"報告委員委員講的沒有錯就是我們原來的機制就是地方政府提上來之後我們來做審查但是現在因為地方政府可能因為有時間上的關係或者是說沒有顧慮到這個協調的部分所以會經過接到醫生的方式上來審查那所以我們還是一樣就提供"},{"start":115.903,"end":143.403,"text":"這多元的方式讓地方的民眾可以在參加這個全民參與街道改善平台裡面辦理這樣子的一個這個部分那確實沒有錯這裡面包括有地下管線還有空間協調等等那我們也看到這個人行道只有74公分所以會產生這個顯像的環生可是我們也要了解這個本來的道路面積跟道路上面的使用確實有這個局限性沒有辦法按照我們平常所知道的這個通用的規則來辦理"},{"start":144.304,"end":169.271,"text":"市長 部長我們都很重視人本交通 像這樣長達十年的安全問題我覺得中央是否應該建立主動介入的機制當地方長期消極處理 能夠去怎麼去督促改善時程或是也建議透過修法或是建立鼓勵機制加以推動否則的話 這問題對我們的很弱勢的行人事實上是相對事實上是不安全的"},{"start":171.46,"end":198.015,"text":"我想林委員所提到的就是我們盡量用輔導或服務的方式來代替說修法然後管制因為大家都知道每個人有不同的聲音包括商圈或者是說行人或是住家每個人意見都不一樣確實是很難整合因為我們的交通事故傷亡也比較高而且也有賴你們這次有這個案子才讓他們十年多的問題解決"},{"start":198.955,"end":224.502,"text":"那我們是覺得往前推是不是可以更快一點再麻煩部長可以去思考一下啦那再來就是部長以全民參與街道的改善平台為例民眾一票一票的選出的18條的指標性優先要改善的路段至今只有一條呢那剩下的全部都卡在規劃中跟輔導中那現實上地方在推動我們的道路改革過程當中遇到了非常多的問題"},{"start":225.282,"end":241.103,"text":"往往導致地方政府為快速提升人行道的覆蓋率的時候往往就會犧牲掉優先要改善的反而去改善了什麼改善了新開闢的道路因為這種路段阻力比較小"},{"start":241.843,"end":255.312,"text":"所以部長每一次你們只有通過10條的道路入選未來是不是有能夠增加因為既然我剛剛講前面那個效果這麼好的話那入選的時候就可以趕快確實去執行我請署長來跟您講一下"},{"start":257.595,"end":273.463,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實非常重視這個街道醫生的這些票選那每一年分兩梯次一梯次就是十案所以總共有二十案那這二十個案當中確實民眾票選出來的都是很不好做的所以我們其實在過程當中同事我們的同仁跟"},{"start":274.136,"end":301.958,"text":"縣市政府那邊的溝通以及指導這個東西花了非常多時間那後來後面的部分我們也會加緊跟地方政府來溝通目前已經有的案件趕快來完成那新的案件我們也會加速來推動是 署長那我覺得未來是不是可以考慮就是因為國土署宣稱對縣市政府有所謂的層數加權的機制所以針對縣市政府認為的一個熱點區域如果有在做票數的加成可不可以考慮一下"},{"start":302.518,"end":321.816,"text":"用高事故的路段來評估是否有高成數的一個加成為什麼這樣講因為要提醒的是最需要的街道改善的往往是老人跟小孩或是身上朋友們但他們也是最難接觸網路的所以最不可能會在平台上去投票的一群"},{"start":322.338,"end":340.349,"text":"所以在以網路的投票跟票數排序的為主的這樣的一個制度下他們的需求很容易被忽略那如果政府只是用被動的等待上網去參與的話等於把發聲權交給誰交給會用網路的人而不是最需要安全的人有沒有辦法這樣子一個考量"},{"start":340.911,"end":365.025,"text":"跟委員報告大概網路上面我們會用不同的一個主題來去做票選譬如說依照是路段等等或者是事故事故發生比較多的這個沒有問題那另外委員剛剛提的就是說有些不會用網路的他怎麼來去表達這些聲音這個部分我們再來去研擬一些可不可以針對這些有的資料去做加取對 透過地方的一些里長等等的一些溝通或者是提一些相關的資訊"},{"start":365.985,"end":381.979,"text":"這個我們來去研究看怎麼去做麻煩署長研議之後有個相關資料給我們最後就是我覺得部長不是只有政大現在有很多地方反映就是所謂的溝通其實就是施工前的通知我以台中經營商圈來為例最後事實"},{"start":383.41,"end":406.923,"text":"多個店家聚連署反對原因不是反對人行道事實上是因為政策過空當中他們的意見事實上是沒有納入的但我知道台中這個案子不是全民參與街道改善平台的案子而目前國土署在推動的人行道改善計畫往往也只專注於入府的寬度跟行人安全可是卻忽略商圈區域的一個特殊性"},{"start":407.523,"end":432.033,"text":"商圈內不是只有行人還有我們的物流進貨跟我們的家長接送跟身上上下車兒童視距的這些需求所以如果只畫一個綠色標線沒有配套或者是我們內凹的內凹式的閉車彎的話結果就導致全面圍停所以我不知道說這是不是未來可以考慮到空間配置的需求而且明確要求地方政府必須召開利害關係人參與的公聽會或協調會有辦法嗎"},{"start":436.09,"end":462.513,"text":"跟委員報告其實目前我們大概這些案子在執行過程當中都有在我們的SOP也就是說地方上面會影響到的影響到的範圍或者是他需要去協助配合的我們都會跟他們揭露都會講得很清楚所以這個案子我們會再跟台中市政府這邊來去溝通一下看怎麼樣跟地方那邊做比較好的溝通那不是不是只有針對這一些案子才會去要求我們所有的每個案子目前在提報過程我們都會跟他們"},{"start":464.75,"end":487.135,"text":"跟他們會去要求說這些細節都要特別的去注意好 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問題來跟你們做個討論那這邊有一個基本的數據本席在看到113年民眾日常機場使用的這個運具的調查"},{"start":60.803,"end":66.444,"text":"非機動運具佔整個市佔率12.8%步行佔了9.9%自行車只有2.7%相較於111年自行車的比例也降低了這個現象蠻值得警惕的因為我們整個政策長期要來推動綠色的運輸但實際的使用比例卻沒有明顯的提升結果還下滑"},{"start":84.728,"end":112.608,"text":"本席看到這樣一個問題可能出現應該是在最主要的問題是在整體環境的不安全所以民眾也沒有辦法使用所以本席今天要討論的是針對兩個部分一個是都會區另外一個是本席來自的原鄉在都會區很多的幹道自行車道跟汽車道的一個混用情形很普遍但是在交通流量大的階段自行車跟大型車共用其實危機四伏"},{"start":113.408,"end":124.336,"text":"所以在人行環境的這個部分那很多都市交通道路的人行道系統也不完整常常會被佔用或者是中斷那行人也會被迫在車道的這個邊緣那安全性跟那個"},{"start":128.759,"end":153.304,"text":"這人車的一個交通使用交通道的使用比例不符那所以本席這邊要請教這個內政部的這個國土署那目前在這個都市道路規劃跟設計的規範當中呢那人本交通政策是怎麼樣跟地方政府來合作那怎麼樣來區分跟改善的一個優先順序那為什麼會在主要幹道上還常常看到這樣一個問題那本席就一起講啦因為時間的關係"},{"start":157.685,"end":163.469,"text":"那偏鄉的這個部分呢花東原鄉部落的連外道路本席不僅在這邊那其實在其他的委會也都提到這個問題那本席常常都徒步在通行一些路段那過去在國外我也常常千里的這樣子走那就發現台灣在這個整個道路的連結性系統的一個規劃可能有上程度還需要再提升"},{"start":182.401,"end":185.624,"text":"那這個長期的結構性問題其實也跟我們一開始在整個交通的一個道路的規劃上目前當然也是有長期結構性的問題的一個限制那我們怎麼樣把比較弱勢的路人的這個需求也能夠納進去所以本席的實地走訪很多在原鄉的這個路"},{"start":202,"end":225.405,"text":"其實如果常常都是還是以動力車為主軸那麼六幅也比較偏向汽機車的一個使用那人行的空間跟自行車的空間往往都會被擠到貼山壁或者是嘴溝邊緣來行走所以這個部分到底怎麼樣去突破所以本席正要請教交通部跟這個國土署"},{"start":225.925,"end":238.97,"text":"那花東原鄉的一個連外道路是不是有一些專案性的安全改善的計畫還是還是他還是被列為一般公路來處理沒有辦法依照實際的情境來做調整所以整個三個問題"},{"start":241.631,"end":258.805,"text":"本席這邊一併提出來第一個全國性的人行與自行車安全的一個提升計畫目前是比較零散的作業還是有整體通盤性的規劃那或者是改善那第二個部分是那有沒有全面來檢討都會區幹道自行車跟車道混用的一個問題"},{"start":260.066,"end":283.283,"text":"那本席這邊也需要一個具體的時程那第三個部分是花東原鄉的地區有沒有專案型的道路安全改善的一個方案然後將人行道跟自行車的空間改善的優先順序還有跟動力的汽車的一個整個改善的這個部分能不能做提升那這個部分是不是請三個部會給本席做一個回應"},{"start":284.304,"end":303.77,"text":"但是要比較具體一點啦,不要只是原則性的那我先報告一下就是我們那個人行空間在大陸裡面的那這個部分在整個計畫裡面的優先推動是屬於車站學校以及商圈就是在都市計畫裡面的這些人口比較密集的地方他必須要有一些人行空間的部分優先推動"},{"start":305.131,"end":323.89,"text":"從一開始13年開始的這個計畫裡面縣市政府都有提相關的計畫來國土署這邊做審議所以我們列了一些相關的優先順序所以每個縣市政府都依照它實際上必須要去做的它會擬一個計畫然後中央這邊才來去做補助這是計畫的整個施行的一個重點"},{"start":324.671,"end":338.281,"text":"那另外說那個委員有問說那個時間有沒有一個什麼時間達成什麼那這個部分我們還沒有去釐定說哪一年一定要做到什麼我們現在都是依照地方的需求那這些需求其實他會滾動檢討因為"},{"start":340.206,"end":360.097,"text":"這些案子在推動不是單純一個工程界面他必須要去整合很多的不管是學校、周邊民眾、商圈很多的一些相關意見整合交通局、警察局、公務局這些所以它是一個整體性的計畫可能你講的這個部分其實在可能會有很多的細節包括這個相關的這個單位跟人等"},{"start":360.797,"end":368.102,"text":"本席這邊提醒一點你們在可能在一個計畫的施行上也要提醒各縣市政府整個系統的連結剛才本席這邊也談到斷點跟中斷那整個人行空間的系統性連結本席在實地走的時候"},{"start":376.768,"end":399.618,"text":"像我記得我在高雄不知道哪一個就從路邊要走到那個相關的橋的那個道路我就找不到人行道找不到人行道這樣問題我覺得都會跟原鄉都有這樣子的問題的產生所以可能在計畫的一個施行上你們是不是應該也把這個部分也列成一個各縣市政府在提報的時候也需要注意的一個重點這個我們會特別注意好 謝謝"},{"start":402.779,"end":423.119,"text":"那就委員關心的大概兩個啦,一個剛才是特別提到自行車的一個,那自行車的一個推動呢自行車跟人沒有錯,那原則上呢我們自行車現在在推動串聯,串聯所有的路網,那目前為止大概全國大概有3861公里的自行車道"},{"start":423.539,"end":441.665,"text":"那針對這一部分我們今年在今年年底又會推出所謂環俄線就是把台灣又環起來的那大概有1000多公里那這其中專用的部分達到37%意思就是說我們非常重視這樣的一個自行車也好或行人也好"},{"start":442.085,"end":460.423,"text":"大家可以發現很多現在徒步環島也是走在我們的自行車道所以其實自行車道上一定的專用跟一定的一個改善其實是有助於自行車業或徒步環島這邊其實也提到一個問題啦就是說剛本席這邊提的其實是有兩個部分一個是說那個"},{"start":461.824,"end":478.631,"text":"所謂自行車道那自行車道裡面你說很多行人都走在自行車道嘛所以自行車道跟行人能夠走的這其實是在這個原鄉或者是城鎮的道路上也是一個問題然後連帶的這個問題就是說那行人自行自行車跟行人其實已經"},{"start":479.491,"end":494.985,"text":"有點局限了很局促然後但是呢那個動力車呢擠壓到自行車道跟行人道也是一個問題所以兩個問題一個是自行車道跟行人道這怎麼去把這個路幅有可能的跟國土署看這邊我們能夠怎麼樣"},{"start":496.446,"end":515.328,"text":"所以國土署有所謂的人本交通的一個有關人行道的設置相關的一個規定那我們也說明過了原則上在省道的部分或是在都外的部分我們採用的標準也是跟國土署一樣所以以後的這個規劃設計或改善的部分有關人行道會一直出來"},{"start":515.808,"end":536.121,"text":"那最後跟委員報告一個有關那個剛才委員特別很關心的就是這個部落的相關的道路就是部落或是原住民地區的道路那原則上是這樣只要是原民地區他是有道路編號的這個在我們的公路局的這個生活圈裡頭都可以提出相關的"},{"start":536.741,"end":557.496,"text":"一個計畫來做改善但是如果是屬於部落之間的聯絡道那是屬於原民會在做處理的所以可能要用這樣兩個方式來做改善 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楊卿發言 邀請部長有請洪部長"},{"start":20.138,"end":44.987,"text":"我們來討論外籍移工的議題台灣從1980年我們開始引進了外籍移工目前的人數大約是85萬人主要的來源大概就是印尼、菲律賓、泰國、越南但是我們在2025年9月份的時候發生了一件美國對於我們知名品牌自行車巨大"},{"start":45.928,"end":57.019,"text":"實施了禁止進口令暫扣暫扣對 所以這個事情那與供應鏈它存在的就是他們說法是說強迫勞動的風險包括了工人因債務被迫勞動等這些事項"},{"start":66.188,"end":81.721,"text":"當然這個影響到整個的巨大的股價重挫但是我們看到國際勞工組織它的強迫勞動指標它的項目大概有11項包括剛剛所說的過度加工等"},{"start":82.861,"end":111.24,"text":"那我們又看到我國的制度我方的制度呢我國政府是允許仲介向移工收取這個仲介費所以業者會擔心隨著供應鏈的一個審查在歐美如果成為是常態化的話那麼我們目前在台灣的這個移工制度可能會受到國際影響的一個牽扯那所以部長我們要怎麼樣"},{"start":112.461,"end":130.629,"text":"去協助我們的產業請做說明跟各位說明第一個我們很清楚看到現在國際在移工人權或勞工人權上面要求的趨勢而且大家的要求的標準越來越高甚至重視的程度越來越高我們必須看清楚這件事情所以方向上是清楚的"},{"start":131.249,"end":146.359,"text":"我們一定要更加的重視公平招募也包括降低工因為來台而會被債欠債的這個狀況部長你現在這麼說呢也就是看看我們的制度那當然大品牌包括美利達巨大"},{"start":147.119,"end":167.121,"text":"他們在這個戰扣令實施之後他們更加的去加強也就是整個他完全包括限職包括新進他是完全的這個零互惠的政策但是我們看到台灣的產業中小企業占多數"},{"start":169.143,"end":187.413,"text":"這一塊我們政府要怎麼去協助他大型的企業他們願意努力做我們給美利達給巨大戰許但是本期要跟你討論就是說在台灣中小企業占九成以上的這個情況之下你如何來協助我們這些產業"},{"start":188.373,"end":206.959,"text":"所以第一個是我們其實現在在二月的時候其實我們也提出了相關的指引來協助產業去辨識相關的風險跟管理風險那目前跟經濟部合作的輔導宣導的做法其實目前也正在上路之中那再來一個就是剛剛其實也幾個委員談到了"},{"start":208.789,"end":227.023,"text":"也有包括要對仲介的人力仲介他們的這個經營的方式跟他們的這個運作的方法上我們會希望用仲介的評鑑的方式來做引導讓大家更重視公平招募的部分把這部分納為仲介評鑑裡面重要的評鑑跟辨識的項目"},{"start":229.505,"end":252.837,"text":"那當然我們現在有定包括在跟這個美方的談判裡面我們也談到其實會要在三年內我們必須針對製造業也好或幾個產業來修改法規那為什麼有三年這部分也是剛剛委員講到的確實有些大廠他比較有條件快速的來去做調整可是我們有很多中小企業這些中小企業他確實會比較需要一個調適期"},{"start":255.125,"end":271.46,"text":"這個調適期要讓他們對於這樣子的一個趨勢跟這樣子的必要性有一定的程度的了解同時政府也不只勞動部可能包括產業主管機關也要一直來協助大家怎麼在這方面來去做你所謂的三年內要怎麼去做"},{"start":272.826,"end":298.033,"text":"三年內是我們是有承諾在三年內要以法規的方式要禁止像這些產業移工來收取仲介費或招募費所以部長你講的這個就是重點到目前為止我們的法律是許可的所以到我們要跟國際接軌的時候中小企業沒有辦法有這個能量的時候我們除了法規"},{"start":300.853,"end":317.92,"text":"這個指引應該要怎麼樣能夠讓我們的中小企業它可以承受得住第一個非常的重要還能夠跟國際接軌因為剛才本席一再強調我們的量體是以中小企業為多數就業率也都是在這邊"},{"start":320.547,"end":336.2,"text":"所以剛剛跟委員說明的是其實在這一段調試期裡面我們有非常多的工作要必須來做甚至是其實也開始會有一些企業表達過去可能很多的招募費用是由移工來付接下來如果不行的話"},{"start":336.92,"end":358.893,"text":"那就變成雇主付還是他們願意現在來跟政府合作用執聘的方式因為執聘的方式現在變成是一個有助於企業降低成本的做法因為以前假如這個招募費用是移工來付的話其實企業不用負擔所以他可能對這件事情不是那麼重視可是當未來他要由企業來負擔的時候雇主來負擔的時候他就開始對這件事情比較重視因為這就變成成本向"},{"start":359.873,"end":382.671,"text":"所以部長 針對這個問題我們大家一起看到了這個問題所以我們也希望要加緊腳步怎麼樣去指引在法規方面怎麼樣去協助我們所有的中小企業產業因為大家都有這個憂心所以因此台灣跟美國簽了ART之後也就是被迫勞動產品的清單"},{"start":385.574,"end":392.821,"text":"所以相關的商品進口美國海關公佈目前為止有55個企業跟8個招確診有強迫勞動狀況的事業所以"},{"start":400.609,"end":403.111,"text":"美國針對於強迫勞動的這個議題 展開了301的這個調查那經貿辦他也預計在4月15以前要提出書面的證實4月28號會赴華美初期公聽會 力保台灣產業出口的競爭力所以部長"},{"start":420.663,"end":438.994,"text":"目前為止我們政府對於這樣的調查我們的因應如何因為這個關係的整個我們的產業產業非常的用心跟郭委員說明其實我們現在跟經貿辦跟行政院也一直在準備這個301調查相關的資料的文件現在我們一直在準備正在準備這件事情"},{"start":439.594,"end":459.811,"text":"所以4月15以前會提出嗎對一定我們會提出那所以這也是為什麼我們其實在今天在行政院院會把這個禁止扣留勞工相關的重要文件的這樣子的修法的草案今天在行政院院會已經列討論案通過以後我們就會盡快的送到"},{"start":460.612,"end":487.783,"text":"立法院裡面希望來做審議那這部分其實就是也是在向美方讓美方了解其實我們對於禁止強迫勞動我們是有實質的作為的不是只有口號我們是有實質的作為的那這邊都是實質的作為希望有助於這些作為包括救護法的修法這些作為都是能夠有助於我們在301的調查裡面尤其是針對強迫勞動的部分的檢視所以因此不只是美方"},{"start":488.103,"end":499.29,"text":"歐盟預計企業永續禁止調查指令他也預計在2027年要上路所以要求企業全面要檢視整個供應鏈的人權跟環境風險所以台灣未來"},{"start":505.053,"end":519.768,"text":"要怎麼樣去建立這個制度要不然我們企業也是非常的憂心到時候可能面臨到非常高額的一個罰款甚至國際的制裁所以政府有這個責任要怎麼樣協助我們的產業"},{"start":521.943,"end":535.213,"text":"第一個我們先看到了美方CBP跟我們貿易談判的部分那確實歐盟這邊他也有CSDD就是剛才講金融調查的部分這個調查比較是針對公司針對公司的部分那也有他們的FLR就是"},{"start":538.104,"end":561.045,"text":"強迫勞動的禁止商品禁止的部分它比較是針對產品的部分那這邊有它不同著重的重點所以我們也必須看到的確現在我們一直在跟企業看到你必須看到我們這些重要的國際貿易的夥伴目前都在越來越重視甚至會提拿出作為的說話所以我們確實是必須要加速對所以台灣結論就是說台灣的產業是非常的精兵"},{"start":562.347,"end":568.553,"text":"跟世界連結所以這些企業所憂心的也是政府的責任要怎麼樣好好的去協助謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168386","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168386","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc79953eace6d89806c0a49e36d97d29c5f155eb231b44028897fc8a76f1bb69cd85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"11:36:17 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今天有三個問題要問你當然還是關於職聘中心的這些成效我們都知道我們的外勞我們現在的移工就是很像一進來就會有悲哉所以我們一直在希望能夠有一個職聘的職聘中心可是我看到資料上面說實際使用的只有3.3%未曾使用的主要原因大概就是沒有後續代辦及管理服務然後沒有時間了解申辦的程序跟進行申辦"},{"start":44.682,"end":68.192,"text":"然後還有就是說因為文件複雜不想申辦這些理由那我們想知道說現在有海外的一個據點那是不是這從115年1月到現在我想知道說實際完成多少件政府對政府的一個媒合其中有多少件是真正做到移工跟雇主都不再支付境內外仲介費的零付費案件有嗎"},{"start":70.083,"end":89.203,"text":"跟文說明的確現在在我們整體的職聘的制度裡面我認為成效上面是絕對是有待提升的那這也是為什麼我們其實目前是其實是很系統性的在檢視我們整個移工聘務流程的東西"},{"start":89.904,"end":117.547,"text":"那當移工聘僱的流程相對跟他相關的要求比較繁瑣的時候的確僱主就會比較依賴人力總結的這個狀況是那所以這整個的制度的檢討其實我想我們目前正是如無圖的在檢討跟研議接下來要去簡化跟優化這個聘僱流程包括尤其是職聘相關的制度的部分正在檢討這件事情中"},{"start":118.447,"end":144.981,"text":"我就說他們程序複雜嘛覺得你們有在進行這些複雜的程序嗎對 有這是現在正在我們非常非常優先的工作那現在我們看到我們跟印度也有簽一個MOU可是我想說這個來源國的這些協商、招募流程、成本分擔、產業承接的能力國內承接的服務跟風險如果沒有一起設計我在想是不是這個印度的移工也會面臨到這樣的問題呢"},{"start":148.11,"end":164.483,"text":"其實剛剛在講的是整體制度的問題其實整體制度的問題當然會跟各個來源國都會有關係其實各個來源國都會有關係所以我們現在在處理的不是只是個別的國家而是必須對於整體的制度做再一次的檢視跟優化"},{"start":166.264,"end":182.387,"text":"我們還是希望說我們不是反對職聘只是希望說他能夠這個不好用的制度能不能就真正設計一個可以降低成本然後降低不確定性降低行政負擔然後大家都可以不要再回過頭去依賴我們的仲介"},{"start":185.429,"end":211.402,"text":"其實很多人一種也是相當專業的其實仲介業其實他們在提供給雇主的一些服務上面也是有它的價值但重點並不是我們其實重點並不是要去消滅仲介並不是而是要建立一個跟接軌國境目前在勞動人權要求的這個公平招募的機制我們的目標是這件事情所以在這個制度在這個建立這樣的制度之下"},{"start":212.657,"end":240.037,"text":"那只要能夠符合這個國際的公平招募的一些原則跟概念我想各方大家一起來參與都很好當然我們現在要解決的就是所謂的資訊不對等那今天我們再問第二個問題就是我們現在就是採取採訪就是比如說我們有看到一些有買工費續聘費轉換費這些亂收費用的這些現象我們有可以採訪不過我想知道說"},{"start":241.218,"end":248.84,"text":"你一再只是用裁髮拿茶器為什麼這種市場還是一直都有利可圖或者說一而再再而三的發生呢"},{"start":250.786,"end":271.397,"text":"第一個是其實財閥查處跟財閥是方法之一就像現在其實我們我們自己也看到有越來越多的企業雇主也意識到公平招募的重要性而且做到這件事情的時候其實對他們企業在供應鏈裡面的信任度跟競爭力都有好處這也是為什麼很多企業開始在投入的原因"},{"start":271.957,"end":290.027,"text":"因為如果沒有做到 其實剛才大家在講到的是被向我們重要的貿易國家夥伴去要求可是有更多現在正在發生的事情是直接是供應鏈裡面的品牌供應鏈裡面的進口商回頭用供應鏈管理的方式去集合"},{"start":291.527,"end":311.361,"text":"這個他供應鏈上面的成員和供應商他相關勞動人權部分這也是一個重要的機制那這個機制部分比較多會是來自一個供應鏈管理的商業機制的部分那我認為我們其實現在也希望能夠跟這樣的商業機制來進行合作所以有公權力的機制也有商業相關的機制這裡面大家可以有一些相輔相成"},{"start":311.909,"end":336.947,"text":"對 那我們還是可以知道說這樣的一個買工費的長期存在就是制度有問題所以我們想說還是希望亂動部這邊多努力第二個就是說是不是有些產業產業是不是可以強化它的職聘跟政府的媒合哪些職業或者是說類別是需要外部專業的服務可是要加強它的透明的監管第三個就是說我們能不能升級成為說屬於產業產業屬性設計來設計聘僱制度"},{"start":341.57,"end":370.074,"text":"我的最終的一個理想是這樣第一個是制度會有他整體制度上面該考慮的事情所以的確現在整體的制度上面當然我們現在比較出分為是產業移工跟家事移工確實在這邊會有分可是我們目前的確並這個在我們簽署的這個ART裡面現在比較多會先著重的部分是製造業漁勞業還是比較是針對產業移工的部分這樣"},{"start":371.008,"end":398.247,"text":"然後第三個問題就是對原住民就有一個衝擊就是我們現在有看到就是每一名員工就是本國勞工加薪2000元就可以額外再續聘一名移工然後上限10%然後現在的人數上限從40%到45%也開放旅宿業三港碼頭業這些比較重視勞力的那我想說這些工作也大部分都是我們原住民在從事的工作那有沒有"},{"start":398.967,"end":418.023,"text":"做一些比如說對原住民勞工啊偏鄉青年勞工這些我們產業的一個衝擊評估跟各位說明第一個原住民的目前的失業率其實就失業率的水準來說其實是比整體個人還要來的低的啦那剛剛說對於這個"},{"start":421.704,"end":438.75,"text":"目前偏鄉的勞工高風險或低薪的產業其實比方說以上港碼頭來說的話其實的確看到像三港碼頭業他們人力缺缺口的狀況是蠻嚴重的這也是為什麼我們把它考慮放進能夠引進的範疇裡面其實的原因"},{"start":440.811,"end":461.956,"text":"所以的確是在這些引進的行業裡面目前開放引進的行業裡面我們都會評估他目前這個行業裡面勞動力缺口的狀況所以在去年公佈的這個跨國勞動力經濟方案裡面的確是看到包括是旅宿業或三港碼頭的確都是現在在各種整體的評估裡面看到他們缺口是相對比較大的情況"},{"start":462.856,"end":489.613,"text":"但我認為我們認為在這些行業裡面去做這樣子的開放其實對於本國勞工的就業的影響其實是會相對是比較小的因為我還是要特別強調做原住民的立委當然是還是要優先關切我們原住民的勞工跟本國的勞工的工作權所以國家不能用一群比較弱勢比較沒有溢價能力的人去壓低另外一群本來就處於不利位置的人我們不是反對移工可是還是要問國家有沒有避免讓弱勢彼此競爭讓彼此來"},{"start":492.194,"end":517.791,"text":"來承擔這個制度的成本跟委員說明第一個我們非常非常樂意跟像跟原民會來討論怎麼樣再提高這個原住民的整體的就業率來降低失業率雖然現在失業率已經比整體的這個國人來的低了但我們很樂意去講尤其是怎麼樣來協助原住民勞工找到更優質的工作的機會這部分我們很願意跟原民會一起來來討論那謝謝委員長謝謝那我們請農業部的王署長"},{"start":531.338,"end":545.658,"text":"對 就針對Wi-Fi這件事情做幾點疑問因為本人的父親在我小學的時候是曾經做過遠洋漁工那我知道他們在那個環境裡面我們都知道我們被最外國詬病就是我們的工作過"},{"start":547.841,"end":554.548,"text":"過場給付不足 生活條件不佳所以遭美方關切我們現在有948艘船現在目標是300艘可是現在只有183艘來專勝這樣一個進度你滿意嗎"},{"start":562.365,"end":581.11,"text":"跟委員報告真的是不滿意那現在署裡面絕對會用盡各種這種獎勵輔導或是政策工具的手段來協助我們這些遠洋經營者不是要裝而已而是要開放給我們漁工來使用這才是重點"},{"start":582.87,"end":599.341,"text":"因為在海上的這個要Wi-Fi可以暢通靠的真的都是要這種衛星的網路那因為我們現在國內的衛星的設備經過NCC這個經過形式認證的就只有IMAC跟"},{"start":600.242,"end":620.048,"text":"OneWeb兩個衛星系統但是這兩個衛星系統其實它的這一個傳輸速度慢而且單價又高其實最快的還是像美國的Starlink星鏈這一種它的其實傳輸速度是好的所以我們政策上現在有一些的調整就是說我不去糾結你去買什麼設備我們用通訊費的補助來鼓勵我們經營者來開放"},{"start":627.61,"end":646.088,"text":"這一個Wi-Fi這些衛星網路讓漁工來使用另外他如果能開放給漁工使用達到一定的程度那跟委員報告因為我們現在遠洋作業裡面是在各個國際組織是高度管理的有一些漁種都是有配額分配的"},{"start":646.568,"end":659.462,"text":"那我們就會善用這種配額獎勵的方式來提高這個誘因讓我們的經營者儘速來提升這一個Wi-Fi的分享的使用率"},{"start":660.41,"end":680.053,"text":"我們確實知道他確實是我們遠洋漁工的申訴啊求救啊聯繫啊保存證據降低恐懼跟控制的這個重要的基礎設施那我看到有第二期計畫已經送到行政院嗎那是不是對比如說工資通報啊專戶保管工資電廠這些項目有沒有做明確的目標跟預算"},{"start":680.593,"end":700.656,"text":"跟委員報告就是因為過去我們這兩三年確實被一些老團也指控我們有一些欠薪的案件那其實我們花了很多的時間那我們都把它處理完了但是現在欠薪的機制一定要建立起來所以我們在去年研擬好就是未來你這些的經營者"},{"start":702.598,"end":727.216,"text":"按定期你都要來申報你的薪資的一個狀況那我們也要求工會這些工協會你要針對這些漁船聘僱人數的高低薪資的發放作業期間的長短你要提撥一定的金額進到這個工會裡面成立一個基金只要一發生欠薪那工會這筆基金馬上先解決"},{"start":727.876,"end":748.301,"text":"那至於欠薪的那一條船那我們後續透過其他行政手段來做那跟委員報告這個是今年1月1號我們就正式實施了好謝謝那就說希望農業部能夠在會後提供兩年內全面普及率的一個具體時程跟預算編列的狀況可以嗎可以沒問題是謝謝市長謝謝委員好謝謝我們的盧縣議召委"}]}},{"id":"168385","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168385","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7612ff2d9af0573e1ff16f9abdda18f34775daf206319287710ab85f957d34f9a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:47:11 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我想要請我們農業部的陳部長 請陳部長委員好"},{"start":22.851,"end":33.161,"text":"陳部長早安你知道嗎現在中東的衝突你上次跟我講說肥料不會缺不會缺也不會脹也不會脹對我們採用凍脹的對可是問題是你不知道它會什麼時候是不是"},{"start":39.747,"end":61.529,"text":"不知道怎樣 我說不知道他要打到什麼時候啊是不是過去評估是在八個禮拜以內嘛可是現在如果半年一年還有你即便說現在不會缺但是民眾的或者是農民的預期心理你怎麼樣子去解決"},{"start":62.37,"end":81.761,"text":"我分兩個部分其實我們農業部門針對肥料動漲確保農民用肥的一個優先權我們前COVID-19 111年的時候我們就持續動漲而且價差補貼到現在我知道然後中東戰爭的話我們會開更多的品項去滿足農民的需求問題是"},{"start":83.422,"end":97.987,"text":"你提到了COVID-19嘛我們都記得在COVID-19的時候這一套系統就在做但是那時候就發生了民眾的預期心理那囤積了非常多的化肥"},{"start":98.547,"end":114.014,"text":"那也導致了那時候化肥是沒有辦法放久的嘛放久了會硬化等等那也導致了那時候後續產生了非常多的問題現在也是同樣的情況當政府宣布說"},{"start":117.628,"end":129.183,"text":"肥料是充足的 那時候政府也宣布肥料充足啊 但是農民的預期心理是沒有辦法控制的嘛 對不對"},{"start":131.321,"end":157.576,"text":"農民對政府的信心不足尤其是現在當我們的塑膠袋發生了塑膠力不足的情況那也產生了有囤積然後沒有辦法有效的放到需要的店家手上在這樣子的情況下如果肥料也發生同樣的問題我想要請教的是怎麼處置"},{"start":158.636,"end":180.589,"text":"我跟委員報告其實在COVID-19那個肥料之亂的情況我有參與在裡面那我們也記取了那時候的一個時間序列的部分所以肥料凍漲因為當時農民要囤肥第一個怕肥料不夠第二個怕肥料漲價所以在這個之前其實在中東戰爭一爆發的時候其實我們就啟動了很多宣導"},{"start":181.629,"end":209.314,"text":"這第二個部分就是我們的農藥實名制在那個時候農藥實名制並沒有落實那現在農藥實名制落實了以後我們把這個後台跟台肥的公肥是對接的所以從肥料廠到農會或者是一般肥料行到農民他的所有的這些量我們都能夠掌握所以隨時可以了解哪個地方需要什麼樣的肥料我們供應到哪個農會系統那如果他有異常的時候我們就會去了解"},{"start":210.194,"end":225.073,"text":"這些農民本身所以那這樣子是不是有一點點變相的限制農民去購買我想我們並沒有去限制但是過去幾年來我們是民族的國家對我知道不能限制民眾農民購買肥料"},{"start":228.177,"end":247.197,"text":"我覺得不會限制農民購買肥料但是肥料他們用的過去的習慣不能說他要存明年的肥料那個部分我想我們會用溝通的方式跟農民 那農民我想經過我們這幾個禮拜的溝通他們也了解其實我們"},{"start":247.958,"end":269.157,"text":"打包票肥料不漲他們就安心然後同時我們也滿足他及時的需求所以現在目前並沒有農民想要去囤積肥料因為囤積肥料有時候肥料囤積完了有失氣反而會造成結塊所以這個部分我想經過這麼多年來的努力我想農民大概了解到我們農業部本身的一些作為"},{"start":269.96,"end":284.239,"text":"那你怎麼樣子確保基層的這個經銷商會不會就是利用這樣子訊息不對稱或者不熟悉這樣子實名制操作他如果變相大手勒是不是"},{"start":285.04,"end":310.625,"text":"我想我們後台用組合的方式不是 我們後台有供應到商系特別是一般的肥料行然後肥料行的實名制可以聯合農民的購肥如果說肥料行進貨的大於他出貨的那表示他有可能會有囤肥的部分那我們就會去了解所以我們透過這個機制現在是蠻平順的啦沒有這樣的一個方式"},{"start":311.707,"end":326.202,"text":"所以我是說當然你是說現在我是說你怎麼樣子就是說你都是用後台嘛是我說但是如果他已經就是變相的大售漲價這沒有辦法從後台了解啊你知道供貨"},{"start":327.244,"end":342.36,"text":"你是從供貨端嘛可是變相的漲價以及將這些成本然後導致於就是說就是讓農民的生產成本變高嘛然後售價沒有上漲的情況下那農民的收入就減少啦 對不對"},{"start":343.041,"end":372.082,"text":"我跟委員報告如果肥料隨便一般的肥料行隨便漲價的話農民就會反應那農民反應我們馬上知道那同樣的現在的肥料我們的吸收是百分之百吸收然後我們跟台肥來協助如果他漲價的時候我們就不供肥給他了肥料行如果漲價我就不供肥他就沒有辦法賣肥料所以這個部分我是不是能請教那個公平會主委"},{"start":378.137,"end":406.753,"text":"因為這涉及到的就是搭售嘛如果有搭售的情況那你怎麼樣子認定它是漲價因為你只要它變相的漲價那個部長已經說了啊它就不供肥給這個農業那個農藥的廠商啊是不是我跟委員報告一下搭售的重點可能不在於價格而是在於教育自由的剝奪啦所以有幾個前提就是你實施這個搭售本身的廠商在市場上是有獨佔力的或是具有相當市場力量"},{"start":407.193,"end":422.169,"text":"那等於說你脅迫一般民眾去買這個東西他必須同時購買別的東西那我們在乎的是說業者有沒有利用這樣的方式來排除市場的競爭至於說價格高低的跟大售之間的關係比較不是那麼直接了"},{"start":422.549,"end":445.267,"text":"所以如果變相的漲價以及導致於到時候那個市場上又面臨到像塑膠袋的這個問題的時候那當然你講的是後端啦我講的是源頭啦今天剛好部長在這裡啦所以我也順便請教他他說如果在搭收變相的漲價的時候他就不供貨給人"},{"start":446.448,"end":467.574,"text":"怎麼樣子你們在行政院這個機制底下能夠有效的抑制我們肥料就是說農民買不到肥料或者是肥料的價格變相的漲價那導致於農民的就是他們的收入變相的減少這個東西我們政府部門怎麼預防嘛 是不是"},{"start":468.414,"end":493.745,"text":"我跟委員說明因為肥料80%都是由台肥供應的那台肥供應本身就有一些價差的吸收了以後我們是把補助的價差提供給台肥不是給肥料行所以萬一某一個肥料行拿到台肥比較高的價錢賣的時候我們後台如果有反應我們馬上鎖住然後我們會讓農民引導到其他的肥料行"},{"start":494.785,"end":515.195,"text":"那這樣子的話肥料行就不敢輕易因為它不是獨佔它在那個區域有很多的肥料行那每一個肥料行如果說它漲了農民可以跑到別的肥料行去如果那個區域的每個肥料行同步漲那就有可能涉及到聯合烘台價格的部分那公平匯的部分就可以去處理"},{"start":516.291,"end":538.169,"text":"好好謝謝我希望說肥料價格不要變相的漲價不要撥就是不要傷害農民的權利那也不要就是讓消費者的權益受到損害好不好我想委員對肥料這個價格一直蠻關切的我們也一直努力在做這方面的好謝謝我是不是再跟主席借幾分鐘請教一下江次長好謝謝兩位"},{"start":546.625,"end":564.405,"text":"市长好你是OTN的副总代表是我想要请问一下根据台美对等的协定2025年到2029年我们将要对美采购252亿的电力设备"},{"start":565.086,"end":574.61,"text":"然後還有電網設備發電機儲能設備那我問你這樣子的設備是不是能夠跟我們現行的這個電網強韌計畫跟再生能源的併網計畫還有儲能建設的目標能夠銜接的上你在談判的過程當中有沒有涉及到這一塊跟委員報告我們在這個協議裡面所說的要"},{"start":593.317,"end":616.474,"text":"去採購的這個部分呢是必須要是主要是有關於這個現行的機組的部分而且呢他必須要經過公開招標的方式所以未來我們採購的所需要的這個品項絕對是符合我們所需要的所以也有辦法就是說跟目前我們設定的目標嗎"},{"start":617.938,"end":636.276,"text":"是 有辦法嗎 國營師對 我們的機組就是主要是採購電力的設備部分是在機組啦那主要是跟電廠的更新改善有關那電力的那個電網的部分只是很小的一部分那基本上還是我們國內自己在就是這個沒有對外去採購的"},{"start":637.239,"end":660.001,"text":"所以這個部分跟那個對美的採購沒有涉及只是涉及原本的基礎的部分好謝謝喔那也希望說我們的江次長你也是OTN的副總代表那未來還有非常多的這些關稅談判的問題那也希望說能夠協助好不好謝謝好謝謝謝一鋒委員"}]}},{"id":"168408","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168408","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc780e0cbdd54e12cecb509ad0e4ca3d866155eb231b4402889ca451516e78a3c485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"12:03:58 - 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楊潔民發言 邀請部長好 麻煩我們被幽言之委員誇獎的劉世芳部長上台"},{"start":19.518,"end":36.679,"text":"部長好我想我們要來討論道路交通管理處罰條例在112年三讀通過所以相關交通部跟警政都有在現場我們一起共同討論也就是針對於汽機車未停讓行人加重處罰的這個部分"},{"start":38.661,"end":63.158,"text":"那上限由三千六百塊 北捷提案提高到六千元但是據於內政部統計的資料來顯示一百一十四年舉發入口不停讓行人違規的件數達到十二點六萬件較一百一十三年增加了一成五十五趴其中汽車遭舉發不停讓件數是五萬餘件"},{"start":65.42,"end":81.091,"text":"機車遭舉發不停讓的件數是7萬餘件那顯示在112年我們修法提高未停讓行人的罰則呢難以去發揮嚇阻的一個效果他反而有了這個法提高的罰則他"},{"start":82.592,"end":109.14,"text":"案件提高了15%那所以呢在這樣的一個情況之下修法跟執法的成效它是明顯的在落差所以請教部長這個市長加上市長也在這裡警政單位也在這裡未停讓行人罰則已經大幅的加重但是舉發的件數是年年在增加那認為這個原因是什麼要如何的去改善來 部長請做說明"},{"start":113.766,"end":128.252,"text":"還是次長說明我跟委員報告這個最主要是大家都知道有關大家希望尊重行人在行船線上能夠禮讓等等的所以這在整個交通這應該是中央跟地方"},{"start":128.812,"end":137.06,"text":"對於這個行人的安全的部分或是車輛的有序的部分有一個中央跟地方的大安會報聯繫會報裡頭大家討論討論裡面就認為說我跟委員講一下"},{"start":144.428,"end":169.677,"text":"因為它是列為重點的一個執法的一個項目所以說可以看得到這個件數是有增加的但是修法的確實也是發揮一定的效果但是修法的一個效果跟那個可能需要一點時間來呈現但是透過這樣的一個修法或這樣的一個執法其實我們有做相關的民意調查普遍的民眾都認為說在這個路口上有關這個"},{"start":172.199,"end":198.196,"text":"這個遵守這個行傳線的規定的這樣的一個情形的比例是提高的以上次長這麼說法我請部長你所做的統計修法過後它反而是增加但是次長是說因為重點去稽查才會這個案件增加這個說法本行沒有辦法認同因為法律通過之後我們希望看到所有的國人的一個安全這才是重點啊"},{"start":200.197,"end":204.262,"text":"那你的案件已經提高了15%我們還樂觀說因為我稽查過稽查過還是一樣事件發生啊所以這樣的說法沒有辦法接受嘛我們要怎麼樣去防止讓市民讓國人能夠安全這才是重點啊"},{"start":219.199,"end":231.423,"text":"報告委員您講的大概都對第一個就是我們修法通過到現在就是大概不到兩年的時間所以交通單位或者是我們警政單位當然會加強變成是重點執法像剛剛次長跟您報告的部分但是我也從交通事故跟行人死亡的人數的統計表來看從111年到114年確實它是有整體交通事故是有降低從3000多出頭到現在2800左右也就是說我們不管"},{"start":249.008,"end":267.513,"text":"哪一種這個處理這個交通的違規的部分或是行人用路的安全其實它有效果可是因為時間很短所以它下降的趨勢沒有那麼容易看得出來所以未來要不要持續的加強這個入口不停讓行人的這個取締的話在報案匯報包括地方的報案匯報我想他們都會做滾動式的調整"},{"start":269.253,"end":295.128,"text":"部長您這樣的說法還是沒有回答本席的這個提問第一個法通過之後我們的目標就是希望國人能夠安全所以本席認為你除了稽查產生的這些案件表示你的整體性它是有這個問題的所以除了你們實施的稽查重點稽查之外本席認為你們要好好的加速的去宣導"},{"start":296.49,"end":311.009,"text":"預防重瑜治療你要好好的去宣導現在我們的法令是如何要怎麼樣大家不要硬闖這個行川線要怎麼樣停讓行人本席認為具體建議宣導的部分要加強"},{"start":311.57,"end":320.221,"text":"我想我們兩個部會其實都有加強宣導但是會聽得聽得有啦 沒聽得聽得沒你講一個人聽不懂就要檢討啊不是不是不能這樣子把責任都給民眾啊表示政府有這個責任嘛加強宣導好不好你誤解我的意思加強宣導是我們兩個的共同結論"},{"start":331.394,"end":349.009,"text":"持續加強 可是你回答不能說會聽得懂聽不懂是你的經歷嘛不是不是 我的意思是說沒有聽到我們的宣導你要改變方法嘛 對不對因為我們的宣導費用確實沒有那麼多對啦 沒有聽懂你的宣導你要改變方法去讓人家聽得懂嘛這是政府的責任嘛聽得懂跟聽得懂兩個都要一起一定要讓民眾好好的去宣導讓大家防範於未然嘛"},{"start":356.696,"end":385.681,"text":"那接下來本席要跟你討論一個居住的這個問題喔好 那個張立柏請回座喔部長我相信在我們長者的居住本席希望跟你討論這個問題喔也就是我們看到喔這個長者居住的部分現在是90.40萬那年增呢是12.53%那換句話說一年啦 家育的部分呢增加的部分是10萬那我們現在都大概都是在於"},{"start":386.181,"end":413.655,"text":"社區關懷活動參與為主這個也很好但是我們已經看到這個嚴重的議題因為增加了這個年增是12.53%孤老居住的這個部分這個是社會非常重要的一環所以本席認為在緊急應變跟長照的這個銜接那我們要怎麼樣用住宅為單位主動的風險管理的這個機制"},{"start":414.776,"end":428.556,"text":"因為現在目前政策明顯是落後在整個人口結構的一個變化它變化非常的大會越來越長者我們台灣的人口長者會越來越多那我們要怎麼樣去"},{"start":430.673,"end":450.893,"text":"應對對於已經突破90萬戶那持續在成長的這個孤老住宅呢那我們是不是應該去研議要怎麼樣去建構一個一致性的清澈就在於分級的風險管理機制它包含了通報包含了這個巡防還有緊急應變的這個標準"},{"start":453.015,"end":462.243,"text":"我認為這一塊是現在我們立即要啟動因為老年化人口在台灣的人口結構是持續在增加請做說明"},{"start":467.294,"end":484.925,"text":"跟委員報告我們這次內政部推的這個老宅延壽就已經結合剛剛委員提到的這個問題因為無老人老這個是目前要面對的所以我們在老宅延壽裡面就針對這些比較古老的這些老人他在裡面必須要做的一些無障礙空間的改善"},{"start":485.405,"end":501.848,"text":"我們每一次開地方說明會都邀請衛福部這邊你所說的這個本席非常清楚部長請聽清楚本席的提問現在我們做的硬體設備裡頭有加注長者、孤老者他要怎麼樣讓他安全這個本席都了解"},{"start":502.389,"end":517.202,"text":"本席所說的也就是人數一直在增加已經有達到90萬戶90萬戶而且每一年在增加所以本席希望能夠在於通報巡防以及緊急應變怎麼樣去跟長照來接軌這一塊"},{"start":519.404,"end":538.478,"text":"本席認為應該組一個專案好好的來研討這應該是衛福部的業務相關因為你們也相關不是只有不要推不是只有衛福部衛福部有衛福部的工作我們內政部也有內政部的工作因為政府橫向的組織非常的重要一定要好好去演繹好不好"},{"start":540.059,"end":566.391,"text":"這樣子才能夠串聯起來讓長者他有所依歸啊好不好好好去研議啦那大概一個月的時間把你們研議的方向可以嗎給本席怎麼樣去串接看衛福部那邊的一個計畫我們會配合他一些相關的資料你們也必須啊對對我們會配對呀好一個月時間把你們整合的方向"},{"start":567.697,"end":569.869,"text":"整合的方向給本席嗎 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因為大家普遍是認為說速度定的太低了嘛我舉個例子來講好了 像有的地方是什麼最小設計速率嘛 你是用最小設計速率來定它的速限可是它的最小設計速率 比如說北宜公路它可能是50"},{"start":173.357,"end":188.262,"text":"但是你的區間測速就定在40而且它有的時候是它可能一個彎的最小設計速率是50然後你就整條全部定在50其實你有時候你前面可以定高一點點倒彎的時候再降下來就好了所以這個標準"},{"start":189.702,"end":207.67,"text":"是大家一直被挑戰的一直一挑戰的所以請你第一個把速度速度標準給大家來看一下好不好沒問題我們提供相關的資料那第二個就是剛剛志良講的我這次要求啊你說你一直講說有的區間測速的地方造成比較安全你一直在強調這個事情"},{"start":208.911,"end":228.332,"text":"可是有的又沒有比較安全啊有的可以效率不髒嘛有的可以用別的方式來取代一樣達到安全的目的嘛那就為什麼非要用區間測數為什麼非要用區間測數我覺得之前一直請交通部去全國去調查一下啊交通部說跟你們無關但實際上交通部就是補助區間測數啊"},{"start":229.753,"end":253.532,"text":"如果你有發現這一個縣市的區間測數不OK設的速率太低或者是他有別的方法區間測數以前因為是有些是剛開始要推出來的時候所以我們有相關的補助或者是在我們公路局的省道上有相關的設置但是後續的大概都是由地方政府來提出來所以現在沒有補助了嗎是 沒有了沒有補助但是因為之前是補助代表你起的頭嘛"},{"start":254.4,"end":281.722,"text":"所以你也不能說放一把火然後後面爛就不關你的事了我覺得這很不負責任啊不是不是 我還是要強調啊委員剛才講到那個有關區間測數的一個成果和成效它其實對於這個事故的發生啊等等有它的效益啦這個是你在講而已啦有的地方也有一些路段是設區間測數之後它的事故沒有下降啦所以你要通盤的檢討嘛我是不知道為什麼交通部就不願意做這個事啊"},{"start":282.242,"end":305.349,"text":"所以兩個 這個我們來提供 就是說第一個區間測數到底有沒有效你如果認為兩個地方很棒而且是因為區間測數的關係喔 沒有別的替代方案喔你就指出來然後第二個是速限 為什麼定成這樣然後之前市長一直講說是要找內政部是不是 我問一下部長吧 內政部長主席我請一下部長"},{"start":312.022,"end":328.102,"text":"就像這個有關於社區間測數或測數這件事情交通部一直講說那是內政部的事你可以接受這樣的說法嗎我想兩個部會一起負責一起負責是不是那剛剛市長有承諾第一個要把速限的標準提供給大家看"},{"start":328.922,"end":346.933,"text":"第二個是針對各個區間測速的路段他真的是因為設了區間測速才讓他安全變好的這個部分他也說要提供給檢察報告那部長可以一起合作嗎報告委員剛剛那個次長所提到的就是說他們有一個書面的手冊會提供給委員來參考"},{"start":348.234,"end":373.328,"text":"那因為你講的這個測速照相因為全台灣各有不同的狀況那我想我們警政署這邊如果有他的那個檢討資料的話我們也可以提供給委員參考因為警政一條邊嘛有的雖然是地方的警察局設的但是警政一條邊報告委員因為大安匯報在中央跟地方都有都有所以有大安匯報的話一定會檢討這個部分那如果有這個檢討報告我們也一併提供給委員參考謝謝部長我覺得部長的態度比較不好多了好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168406","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168406","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7be1fa58cdeb813f0b509ad0e4ca3d866155eb231b4402889b8bb7224aebc51ba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"11:47:38 - 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謝謝我們先請這個交通部次長陳次長 道安師副市長還有公路局副局長市長好市長事實上我關心的就是我們阿里山公路阿里山公路目前他那三樓 數限30"},{"start":35.683,"end":58.495,"text":"速限30也就是代表說你不管上坡下坡就是30速限規定起來非常的嚴格而且這個嚴格就會變成說現在阿里山觀光正在回來包括整個阿里山火車的推動包括整個鄒族部落的一些遊客"},{"start":59.255,"end":74.245,"text":"啊不對勒,這個速限30,動不動就是去齁去開就發大,尤其這科技執法類齁,真的是罰單這開下去就變成說有時候他們下坡齁,你車差不多大一個就超過40了啦,啊就發大齁這個對於很多我們在觀光上,那個他們要來然後後來遲到一張罰單,哇這個有一點困擾,所以是說呃"},{"start":87.159,"end":89.701,"text":"整個線路這可以檢討得比較細膩嗎?或是說上坡跟下坡可以有不同的標準嗎?這個是不是請有誰可以來回答?"},{"start":104.328,"end":106.651,"text":"阿里山公路台18線這個速限的問題其實在地方其實很多人在關心這個案子"},{"start":120.988,"end":141.894,"text":"那當初速限的問題是因為發生很多大事故以後那有些彎道或是坡彎道的部分大概沒辦法達到那個速限的標準所以他去設限那其實很多民眾也有反應因為這樣造成警察單位去超速開單那這個部分我們"},{"start":142.794,"end":169.576,"text":"想說未來我們再跟警察跟嘉義縣的道安匯報以及嘉義縣的單位我們再做整體的檢查就是剛剛委員講的上坡跟下坡有沒有可能再去處理或是路段的部分再去做討論路段是不是檢討一次再來就是地方也有建議他們建議就是說當然我們也不希望說因為有時候一些山路就會有一些飆車族會想要去那邊飆那地方會困擾"},{"start":170.356,"end":199.033,"text":"但是能不能針對不然就是說假日的時候假日的時候予以卓度放寬為什麼要在家 因為假日觀光客本來就比較多也比較沒有人去飆車那種去飆的大概都是平日啦比較沒有車 主人車這些就不愛嘛事實上假日的時候本身也是一個也是希望這個車流量可以舒緩可是你這個箱子綁在那邊真的很容易造成來晚的旅客被開單"},{"start":199.733,"end":219.566,"text":"是委員我想這個公路局會去檢討那現在高速公路上他也有針對那種大型車輛跟其他車輛有不同的速限那剛才特別提到的阿里山公路上早期所謂的事故大概都是大車上大家上阿里山下阿里山的時候因為上還好下的時候是"},{"start":220.738,"end":243.365,"text":"希望控制他的速度啦 下坡的時候所以在很多的遊覽車 在很多的旅客啊 產生事故所以才有一定的速限那如果可以就大車跟小車來做分流的管理我覺得這也是一個方向嘛這也是一個方向好好好 那可以請那可以先回 那我是下一個我請這個內政部我們劉部長嘿"},{"start":253.323,"end":259.426,"text":"因為我知道五月我們的老宅延壽的計畫即將要上路,老屋延壽"},{"start":260.407,"end":285.646,"text":"那這個真的是得證哇我地方好多人都在跟我反映他們希望加入尤其是我們知道我們太多地社區的這一些六樓六樓的這個老房子他過去就是他沒有管理完整就是電梯沒有一條工基金沒有工基金的話就很多這個本來要做的修繕沒有做或者是說沒有電梯那你現在的老人家來說你沒有電梯他在那爬樓梯都是很危險的所以"},{"start":288.587,"end":295.961,"text":"真的是 這個政策可來 真的有貼到 喔真的 大家都覺得很棒可是 站在我們的立場 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這裡是兩頁"},{"start":404.673,"end":421.589,"text":"有兩億人兩億可以改善的補償也是很多還是有一些啦但是就是要溝通我要跟委員說我們現在百分之百的點頭是要申請的人搞不清楚他要怎麼提的大我告訴你你知道有百分之百的同意嘛"},{"start":423.27,"end":428.092,"text":"因為你如果是四樓到六樓,結結就是四樓還是六樓,我跟委員講,我如果再加衛福部,再加經濟部衛福部是什麼東西,譬如說老大人,他可能他的門要拆掉,不然他的有障礙空間會太小,這個他不可以提到可以"},{"start":445.698,"end":454.848,"text":"再來就是老舊的電線,整個挖掉,不是只有挖電線接頭因為電線如果老舊的話,燈光昏暗,也會影響老人家的居住安全這都衛福部或是內政部可以補貼"},{"start":467.12,"end":493.076,"text":"這部分我們地方政府這裡我們會來講啦 積極的來打這個我們都不會把這個服務團隊我們是百分之百嘛 只要是服務團隊的話縣市政府的那個標案我們都百分之百補助而且那個建築師他在每一個服務案裡面他會得到的這個補助費是由中央來負擔地方政府不用負擔是啦 所以部長我就要重申這行政策真的是貼近民意啦 大家知道"},{"start":493.717,"end":514.623,"text":"都很期待這一個政策的上路我們也希望這個政策也不要只有在特別預算這一次看到未來可以延續這樣的一個方向未來也是特別預算會更好因為如果要編列內政部還是不夠啊像經濟部他的家電太舊ESCO的部分他們就有總共是68億"},{"start":516.363,"end":534.972,"text":"譬如說我們的冰箱,想要老二十年三十年,你要改做綠能冰箱也是可以一起申請,我們現在把三個部會都合作為所以為什麼我們的申請表格會比較多,因為三個部會要把很多申請表格弄得很清楚不是那麼容易,我想在座委員都知道,不是說來申請就好,又來處住本身,要看有這是什麼事情"},{"start":540.264,"end":547.829,"text":"所以要跟委員說 我們還是繼續來說沒關係 我們地方也是會辦一些如果需要我們下去辦說明會我們會去做說明說明會我們也會要求縣市地方政府也辦說明會我們有過這個行政表單對不對我們幫他辦一次而已 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雙冊沒有做就怪怪的啦那地方配合管跟我們是五十五十啦那當然如果中央有核定的話我相信新北市政府也會來提拉我們會來積極辦理那個審核的結果會盡速來告訴委員好啊 那大概哪個時候會知道結果咧"},{"start":191.344,"end":201.255,"text":"這樣子好不好一個禮拜內會告訴委員答案好不好因為公文在跑到哪裡去我們追蹤一下沒關係 因為您現在剛剛提出來來 請署長回去再查一下好 一個禮拜內會跟委員報告好 謝謝部長那第20項咧這個應該都是"},{"start":208.524,"end":225.446,"text":"屬於這個 其實各區或是各縣市政府都會有的啦那分享是不是有人請內政部來做個協助您現在講的是指三重區的部分是嗎對 三重那三重區的部分我們一律來查看一下好不好也是一樣 就是說也是希望五十五十的比例啦"},{"start":226.167,"end":246.583,"text":"那如果地方政府沒有太大問題的話,因為這個您剛講的,它是屬於比較多的案量我們要一個一個弄清楚再處理,所以是麻煩一下好,那沒問題那我們多一點時間來處理那剛剛那個案的話,一個禮拜你有沒有告訴委員好,這個我們弄一個禮拜啦,那下面那一個可不可以一個月之內一個月之內"},{"start":250.192,"end":260.816,"text":"只要符合標準的話我們會告訴委員什麼時候一個月內一個月內好就盡快啦因為這其實就是Routine的這個入口的這個改善其實應該沒有多大的問題那我想說這個選區裡面的一些"},{"start":266.258,"end":285.811,"text":"建設那除非有預算有被擋如果預算有被擋那有中央有補助地方當然我們希望地方會出啦我們就按照規定按照比例的補助比例來支付啦謝謝我們支持我們會來努力那我再問一下部長就是說我查了一下就是到今年的這個3月底地方的提案"},{"start":287.112,"end":310.864,"text":"有94件這個有關這個人行道的這個改善你們這個計畫但是呢設計施工中呢有75件呢都目前都還卡住啦那只有19件呢打標那我的意思是說這個我們在整個審核的過程當中有沒有什麼比較問題是出現在哪裡那有沒有什麼比較可以"},{"start":311.605,"end":325.818,"text":"快速審查的例如像這個綠色通道的這部分呢能夠來做審查啦因為有時候就是地方會覺得說那為什麼會卡關卡的比較久來這是交通部來市長嗎還是誰請那個公路局林副局長"},{"start":333.604,"end":352.05,"text":"跟委員報告那個人行道對主要是其實是用地最困難處理那這個部分就是目前它還新北市的部分都還沒完工都還在施工當中這卡在是還沒有完工那還是說在設計的時候就出現問題勒"},{"start":353.447,"end":375.381,"text":"他有的是設計其實有些地方溝通其實在雖然說沒有用地上沒有問題可是在施工上其實還是要很多溝通因為還是有民眾會反映有些意見所以他有些工企就會因此就會那副局長你的意思是說這前面我們審核的過程沒有問題是"},{"start":376.441,"end":404.704,"text":"後續審核過了後續的施工的過程當中溝通的問題嗎還是怎麼樣是這部分嗎是因為我們甚至有的縣市政府有花包完然後地方反彈以後再測案的就把它除有啦我看比例不高啦不高是不高啦那我的意思是說那像這個94件裡面新北市有佔了幾案三案三案是不是那三案現在是溝通協調的問題就對了"},{"start":405.936,"end":427.666,"text":"他其實就有的部分其實也一直在施工也一直在我們每個案子大概審查時間大概是多久我們中央一個案子他申請以後大概應該到合定大概半年左右就完成也就是說我們剛剛跟國路署一樣是分了上半年審已經下半年審其實這個可以說成每季每季啦"},{"start":428.533,"end":457.54,"text":"我們收案是一直在收我們公路級的部分是收案是一直在收那我的意思是說合的話可以按計不用按半年半年啦時間是可以再加快啦因為這個大家都很關心的啊好不好你們想一下那流程如果本來是半年半年可不可以按計一年四季來做審查然後能夠合就趕快合因為我們其實還是會看預算的額度啦那當然預算也是啦也是一個考量的因素啊但是先合下去那預算大家中央跟地方再來想辦法啊"},{"start":458.781,"end":467.654,"text":"因為怕沒有預算合了對地方會造成困擾至少不要說是卡在中央的審查啦是 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運動中心我建議部長"},{"start":44.016,"end":58.262,"text":"收還是要收啦再答覆,好不好?當下其實我跟縣長說明就是如果他發函來,我們運動部都會入案我有跟縣長說明這個情況好,接下來這個今天大家都談這個台灣國際田徑賽應固挺辦這個謝謝部長願意用運動發函基金但是"},{"start":75.347,"end":101.162,"text":"我还是建议部长等一下看我来说明预算法第54条预算法第54条这个组织处长最清楚这里面特别提到新兴资本支出及新增计划经立法院同意者不在此限所以立法院"},{"start":102.403,"end":130.212,"text":"對於這個115年度的總預算裡面的新興計畫新增計畫總共718例都已經在立法院表決通過要讓行政院各部會能夠支應所以行政院主計處收到公文之後就簽呈給行政院院長"},{"start":131.559,"end":158.149,"text":"所以也要拜托部长去拜托行政院院长卓荣泰院长这个部分一定要去赶快去批让他能够可以开始执行这是法律规定的预算法54条规定的很明确所以在整个新新计划新增计划里面"},{"start":160.643,"end":187.415,"text":"跟我們運動部有關的部分就兩項台灣品牌賽事精選計畫8億元另外一個國家運動科學中心大樓興建計畫0.5億元所以這個部分你不去拜託卓榮泰院長趕快去批的話除了台灣品牌賽事精選計畫受到影響"},{"start":189.11,"end":216.424,"text":"你去運動發展基金用了你就少了你本來還可以做更多的事情一樣會少所以能夠回歸到這個新興計劃總預算裡面如果卓榮泰院長不批也會影響到什麼國家運動科學中心大陸的興建所以這個部分我們要共同的去努力請問一下這個"},{"start":220.814,"end":240.215,"text":"部長,台灣田徑協會有報計畫公文到運動部嗎?在公務這邊確實有他們有報公文?有報公文所以你們答覆他了嗎?"},{"start":242.6,"end":259.491,"text":"我們曾經答覆過他曾經答覆說因為沒有預算?不是不是不是,我們希望他輔導他成為因為在現行的狀況下,輔導他轉換成基金的使用所以公文已經這樣寫了?我們把它入案,已經在基金的部分是有入案,現在要協助他們"},{"start":260.131,"end":279.885,"text":"所以有協調他們希望能夠用基金我們還是希望保障運動員參賽權益建議建議部長雙廣旗下除了剛才講的基金一定要去拜託卓榮泰院長好不好這個是我們共同要去努力好"},{"start":284.208,"end":290.874,"text":"這個是我們某委員的一個剛才的質詢的圖檔我請問一下下面是運動部運動部的總預算121億121億除了新興計畫新增計畫院長還沒有批之外請問一下這個主計處處長現在可以動資的是多少"},{"start":311.363,"end":333.949,"text":"我們現在可以報告委員我們現在是按照除了新興計畫8.5億以外然後依照預算法的規定就是上年度114的上年度執行數執行數多少上年度執行數的部分我們目前可以支用的上限的話是包括整個包括全民署的部分是82億82億嗎對這個部長"},{"start":342.293,"end":371.45,"text":"这个就是一议算法54条瓜福二的地方瓜福二上年度执行数何时动之这总议算还没有过但是上年度执行数何时动之就是这样出场主计数出场刚刚讲的82亿82亿所以这张图表是错误的"},{"start":372.891,"end":396.846,"text":"這張圖表是錯誤的所以未來這個下一次如果還有人問就要講你可以動之的是82億所以這個部分所以你們現在都還有合嘛很多的補助館都這樣在合嘛再用你們的相關的這些業務都在推動嘛所以這個部分也做一個澄清最後原住民的部分還是要請部長繼續支持謝謝這個"},{"start":401.967,"end":423.152,"text":"我們上次也提114年度人民特考有列了115年度也列了很重要的就是約聘僱的人員的部分也要去處理因為這是立法院所做的附帶決議好不好好可以嗎這一點上面當然這個援助民主的部分我們絕對會重視好謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"168393","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168393","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7530151c60b78707bd16b10bbffbc7f67155eb231b4402889d104b08215f3295d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"12:12:35 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對不起喔 其實時間不應該記了因為他們還沒有上來重新計算時間 謝謝好不好因為我對關於要尊重嘛 要等到他們上來我才能開始質詢謝謝委員好 謝謝部長好 市長好今天就是本來聚焦一個蠻重要的問題就是呢 我們的這個世界台灣國際田徑公開賽的問題"},{"start":66.105,"end":89.173,"text":"本來我們中華民國田徑協會的秘書長說這是因為我們立法院的總預算一直沒有辦法通過我想請問部長如果部長不清楚可以請旁邊的司長代為回答我左邊這是你們運動部的在送進立法院的預算書請問一下台灣田徑公開賽"},{"start":90.373,"end":115.396,"text":"是不是在我所框起來的就是台灣品牌賽事的精選計畫的這個科目裡面跟委員您報告在運動部成立的時候我們輔導各個協會是希望說在今年都來申請這個是不是這個因為我們就是論事預算我們要一個一個看跟委員您報告那我們後續都已經輔導他們希望他們來申請不是啊"},{"start":116.116,"end":132.251,"text":"這個科目對不對嘛來市長回答因為這個是你們所編列的報告委員我們是每一個年度在結束的時候會選出精品的這個精選賽事科目對不對我框起來科目是不是正確的目前我手上沒有這個科目應該是列為2.0裡面的"},{"start":135.674,"end":162.81,"text":"没有错嘛台湾品牌赛斯2.0的预算里面这里面呢分两笔一个是三千万一个是七亿七千万嘛七亿七千万好所以呢这个是在我们的预算书里面确实有对不对而且呢这个秘书长王景成秘书长他讲的也是说编列台湾品牌赛斯2.0预算所以我跟你们确认好我们再来看下一页啊"},{"start":163.63,"end":190.296,"text":"那麼這筆預算我們的總預算確實目前我們還沒有在做但是我們在這個新增的預算部分新興計畫的預算部分718億718億已經通過在立法院已經完成通過的預算裡面就有運動部主管的"},{"start":190.876,"end":211.912,"text":"台灣品牌好這個賽事計畫一共8億元好這邊還刮鬍各縣市因為這符合你們在預算總預算裡面提到這一筆預算是來補助各縣市還有相關的運動團體你們在科目裡面的說明也說得很清楚好"},{"start":212.472,"end":224.602,"text":"所以我要講的是當然今天部長提出了一些所謂的補救辦法說就用運發基金來協調用運發基金可是問題是這一筆預算在你們的總預算裡面有編列沒有錯但是呢在通過的718億裡面的新興計劃預算也已經涵蓋了這一筆預算"},{"start":238.394,"end":257.581,"text":"所以如果我們行政院長卓榮泰院長如果不是他壓著各部會不能執行這718億元的預算的話運動部大可來動用這8億元的預算不是嗎所以我要講的是"},{"start":258.701,"end":284.679,"text":"这个确实是预算卡关但是他卡关是卡在行政院而不是立法院这个一定要核心序名一定要讲清楚因为718亿我们已经通过718亿里面也确实涵盖我刚才所问询问的台湾品牌赛事的精选计划8亿元所以啊"},{"start":286.94,"end":313.891,"text":"我在這邊啊我知道部長有這個態度也有這個決心想要解決這個問題所以呢你動用到運發基金他可不可以做當然也可以做可是我在這邊要特別提到的不是你們不能動用這筆預算不能動用這筆預算是行政院長卓榮泰院長下令的"},{"start":314.511,"end":331.527,"text":"不是立法院沒有通過所以我在這邊啊我想可能部長不好意思去喊話我們的卓榮泰院長就如同商章善政這個市長所講的整個臺灣不能一直在等著虧所以我們在這邊是"},{"start":333.669,"end":341.88,"text":"還是呼籲行政院只要去執行這718億元就沒有我們中華民國田徑協會秘書長他誤認為說這個是立法院總預算沒有通過"},{"start":350.572,"end":355.075,"text":"他搞錯了 我不曉得是不是運動部有人給他一個錯誤的訊息是不是認為說 這個預算我沒有辦法動之可是沒有辦法動之 他不是卡在立法院他是卡在行政院我覺得這一點一定要把他講清楚 說明白"},{"start":371.784,"end":391.769,"text":"那麼如果今天行政院院長從善如流他如果能夠聽張善政的話的話那麼其實也不需要去動用預發基金也可以讓預發基金做更有效率的一個運用不需要再去運用這筆基金這筆預算有邊嘛有邊也有過"},{"start":396.07,"end":417.587,"text":"有邊有過就可以動直所以我覺得這部分還是請部長回去可以跟行政院再做一些溝通跟爭取如果說今天一定說718億通通都不能動用其結果就會發生這一次大家搞錯方向了好不好"},{"start":418.612,"end":429.165,"text":"跟委員您報告,當然我們還是希望說首先很感謝你對我們台灣運動的重視那我們還是希望說用運發基金來去讓比賽能夠順利辦成"},{"start":430.305,"end":450,"text":"我知道部長我剛講說我肯定部長有這個態度而有這個決心要去解決這個事情運發基金他是一筆基金在那邊但是事實上這個預算已經有編列立法院也已經通過了其實你們隨時都可以動之好不好"},{"start":452.315,"end":473.972,"text":"不好意思 請委員尊重現場在質詢的委員的權益不好意思 請您不要發言尊重現場在質詢委員的權益不好意思 請您結束您的發言剛剛中嘉賓委員發言的時候我也全程沒有站起來尊重委員發言質詢的時間"},{"start":477.082,"end":492.074,"text":"基本上我刚才的态度刚才我把这个讯息正确的信息都已经传达了那我觉得我也尊重委员的发言但是我觉得更应该尊重我们主席的一个才智谢谢主席谢谢"}]}},{"id":"168392","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168392","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc78216e9afc0e82718ff16f9abdda18f34155eb231b4402889f0c8cd608c1fd9b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"12:12:15 - 12:17:14","影片長度":"00:04:59","會議時間":"2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、公平交易委員會代理主任委員、衛生福利部首長、法務部首長及行政院消費者保護處首長就「中東衝突加劇市場不確定性，致國內包括乙烯、塑膠、化肥、瀝青等石化原物料及物流成本增加，屢傳缺料、囤貨現象等之問題評估、因應策略與現況」進行報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-04-09","start_time":"2026-04-09T12:12:15+08:00","end_time":"2026-04-09T12:17:14+08:00","duration":299,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-5-19-8"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.13221875,"end":2.7478437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.442218750000002,"end":15.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.29846875,"end":18.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.37721875,"end":29.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.405968750000003,"end":35.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.51909375,"end":36.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.41346875,"end":41.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.408468750000004,"end":46.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.06159375,"end":47.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.39471875,"end":50.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.12846875,"end":52.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.49534375,"end":54.486593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.65534375,"end":62.907218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.26159375,"end":68.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.04971875000001,"end":72.47534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.89721875000001,"end":73.31909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.55534375,"end":76.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.98096875,"end":78.16221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.66846875,"end":81.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.54971875000001,"end":84.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.00909375,"end":87.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.71346875,"end":91.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.28659375000001,"end":94.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.29471875,"end":96.89346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.21409375,"end":98.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.31096875,"end":100.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.57221875,"end":102.00659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.37784375000001,"end":103.87971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.16659375,"end":106.20846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.66409375,"end":111.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.54096875,"end":117.31221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.15596875000001,"end":121.80096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.02034375000001,"end":124.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.72034375000001,"end":126.17159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.61034375000001,"end":130.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.89659375000002,"end":131.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.24659375000002,"end":142.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.30409375000002,"end":146.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.21909375,"end":149.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.45909375000002,"end":156.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.27659375000002,"end":157.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.28909375,"end":163.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.46159375000002,"end":161.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.46096875,"end":171.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.88596875000002,"end":177.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.52221875,"end":178.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.70346875,"end":182.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.68596875,"end":185.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.68971875000003,"end":193.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.05971875,"end":203.42534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.29971875,"end":197.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.84721875000002,"end":205.19721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.19721875000002,"end":210.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.22159375,"end":211.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.09909375,"end":213.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.14096875,"end":215.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.67659375000002,"end":219.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.16534375,"end":240.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.28659375,"end":227.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.36221875,"end":230.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.78659375,"end":252.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.95346875,"end":258.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.38721875,"end":260.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.26034375,"end":261.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEA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麻煩請經濟部長麻煩請經濟部的江次長"},{"start":26.07,"end":41.017,"text":"市長我是想來關心一下油價狀況雖然說美伊好像說要停火兩週但是現在市長在還是有很多不確定性因素包括和睦之海峽到底有沒有開放我在新聞裡面就看到很多不同的說法"},{"start":41.516,"end":68.24,"text":"有的是說沒有開放有的美國的副總統是說有開放這是第一個不確定第二個是就算開放了因為伊朗他說他要收過路費之前有講說要收過路費那收過路費就算開放我們經過那邊那我們的成本也是不是會提高那所以想要請教市長昨天部長有在立法院的時候講說因為有開放然後所以中油大概會有一個"},{"start":69.65,"end":80.176,"text":"兩萬桶的原油然後會準備要運來台灣然後那時候說是有四艘是不是四艘就是八百萬桶嘛那我想問一下這個運過來這個油價有跌嗎董事長回答好了"},{"start":88.559,"end":110.024,"text":"昨天在議員這邊的說明是說假設這個海峽開放的時候那麼我們目前在珀斯灣裡面有一艘郵輪已經裝滿了原油那就可以出來那目前的情形看起來並沒有照預期的那麼順利我們詢問大概這些船都目前都還在觀望當中"},{"start":111.644,"end":117.05,"text":"到底這個海峽有沒有開大家要觀望所以大部分的船都還是在波斯灣裡面等待"},{"start":118.223,"end":138.27,"text":"那另外就是說提到就是四艘船那個是我們跟沙烏地所買的原油那麼轉從管縣輸送到鴻海那邊去裝船那麼這四艘船的話在那邊會從大概四月中裝完以後呢陸陸續續會從鴻海那邊出來到台灣過來"},{"start":142.412,"end":160.842,"text":"那麼並不是四月份四艘船,而是說陸陸續續但最起碼就是有一件事情跟昨天部長的就講的不一樣啦,可能昨天是不是比較樂觀覺得如果開放的話會有一個兩百萬桶的原油可是現在看起來,您剛剛是說沒有嗎?基本上沒有差別,昨天講的是說假設海峽開放順利的話"},{"start":164.717,"end":193.26,"text":"那現在看起來就不順利嘛那現在不順利的話代表說下週的油價還是會持續漲嗎下週油價因為我本來是想問說如果有順利的話那油價一定會下來嘛今天國際上的很多原油的現貨是期貨都下跌了像美國的西德州的中級原油它的期貨已經創下2020年的最大跌幅啦那如果油價下來的話那下一週的油價要怎麼算"},{"start":194.587,"end":218.786,"text":"這部分還是要看明天的情形一整週的平均油價再來做7D3B的整個的檢討跟計算目前還很難講第二個就是說因為針對中東的油價因為有很多產油大國像阿聯、科威特他們的產油設施都已經被破壞了那現在中油在進口原油這塊有做什麼比較多元的採購嗎"},{"start":220.262,"end":240.234,"text":"是那個所謂那個沙烏地跟UAE阿聯這邊的他是有遭到一些破壞但是並沒有很嚴重所以他目前還是有生產還是有出口那當然對於其他的油源的部分公司也都在嘗試的譬如說在非洲"},{"start":240.914,"end":264.7,"text":"有沒有我們適合的油種另外澳洲也可以考慮或者是說在南美洲這邊的油我們也在考慮做接洽但是大概什麼時候會考慮完我們要考慮說它有沒有足夠的量能夠賣出來你們在接洽中已經收到相關資訊了但還沒有做出決定是不是因為我們對於它的油種我們要去測試"},{"start":266.5,"end":294.269,"text":"已經在進行當中就對了那個董事長如果說油價有下跌我覺得你們要我是建議說趕快跟大家講因為物價有僵固性有時候物價上去之後就不會再下來了那如果你可以預期之後的油價下來趕快跟大家講就會讓市場覺得說現在漲價不合理至少可以產生一種輿論制裁的作用所以油價有下跌一定要趕快跟大家講好謝謝"},{"start":295.814,"end":297.946,"text":"好謝謝月圓之委員"}]}},{"id":"168391","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168391","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7f5cb540f46e7895bd16b10bbffbc7f67155eb231b44028893b12e6e223e8e7575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:05:39 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對不對所以升學要競賽啊 刺激大家讀書啊那讀書就是為了追求那個排名啊接受這個優勝者的這個光環可是現在少子女化了我們的教育目標開始強調什麼適性發展 多元入學強調的是追求自我突破跟成就當升學不再只是一個考試競賽您認為全民運動的願景有沒有什麼轉變"},{"start":72.045,"end":93.447,"text":"跟委員您報告我們當然希望說在全民的運動的比例還有規律運動的人口可以上升那我們的人口上升那當然我們自然運動的身體健康運動的風氣健康提高對沒有錯運動的目的過去好像是比賽求勝對不對所以學校辦理比賽吃雞運動所以追求排名享受贏的感覺"},{"start":94.288,"end":113.703,"text":"現在我看很多年輕朋友投入這個自我鍛煉他要追求體態健康管理享受健康對不對所以過去我們靠競技比賽來帶動運動風氣現在運動促進身體健康心情愉悅是不是這樣子我們現在運動追求的是促進身體健康嘛心情愉悅嘛那你覺得指標是什麼指標是"},{"start":118.012,"end":138.639,"text":"運動可以增加身體健康那其實我自己在這個假日的時候也看到非常多這個民眾會去健身房運動其實覺得真的規律運動的比例很高答案在你的右後方啦就是你們的房租長告訴我的他說我們自我端倫的指標就是要提升體適能我也蠻認同的所以年輕人去健身房自主測試體適能運動強身體健這個很好"},{"start":142.02,"end":170.189,"text":"可是在非都區區的長輩族群他們或許的運動的習慣就走走路從年輕到老都在下田耕作你叫他出去搞個什麼運動他也沒有目標誘因請問我們的政策要怎麼介入怎麼提供誘因如果讓這個非都區區的長輩族群也可以意識到體適能的重要性你有沒有注意到那些早年操勞的像下田耕作的長輩們他們年長後的體能其實是相對一般人是更衰老的更快"},{"start":172.611,"end":188.066,"text":"你覺得怎麼樣讓他們去知道要保持自己的體適能而不是說早年夏天我很勇啊五十斤的大米我會扛著跑啊您覺得呢各位委員您報告那首先非常感謝您對於我們全民的身體健康還有後續的體適能這部分的重視那是不是由署長來待會回答來 署長"},{"start":190.033,"end":207.269,"text":"這個變成是老師教學生了來這個都是跟你的簡報拿的全民運動署提升國民體適能的正確運動你們要部件固定巡迴體適能的解散對不對是的這是那天我聽到你的簡報說的我很認同那請問那麼怎麼樣提供專業的建議帶動長輩去運動你要去哪裡設這個檢測地點呢部長我請你來急問急答直觀的問題來"},{"start":214.195,"end":233.975,"text":"在廟口廣場請長輩來做體制能測試還是公園綠地還是社區活動中心這我們鄉下都在這些地方看到長輩你覺得咧社區活動中心對一半因為我打個問號我覺得這三個都不是以上皆非因為檢測站需要科技設備對不對需要專業操作還有人員引導是不是這樣有沒有覺得受騙的感覺沒有沒有這三個來我是覺得"},{"start":238.439,"end":253.579,"text":"用這個如果從科技設備專業人才和引導的人力我覺得公司立的技術專校院全台有73所有萬名師資40萬個學生這些人可不可以成為你們部件體測站的一個非常重要的基礎"},{"start":254.773,"end":280.03,"text":"好 來 署長你幫忙打一下我們因為設置那個體適能檢測站我們還是需要有一定的設置標準包括它的一個師資包括它那個人力的一個還有器材 器材也都需要經過相關的檢測所以這些其實都是我們潛在的所以這個是很不錯的一個基礎 對不對部長 這是很適合來幫忙我們全民運動 我們體適能好那你們運動部有沒有找計專校園來合作有沒有考慮過"},{"start":285.013,"end":292.777,"text":"現在跟我們申請相關的一個包括一般的檢測站或是銀髮體適能檢測站的有包括大川校園是的這個跟部長說您這個署長很不錯我上週去教文考察的時候呢他特別到我們屏東一個大仁科大他們也專門做一個簡報然後呢他們這個簡報就說他們希望在屏北地區設一個國民運動休閒中心但是署長說我們是不是先來做體適能當下學校有時候非常好來往下看"},{"start":311.906,"end":334.946,"text":"所以在季專校園他是提供檢測體適能的方案那個學校也提出來了他們可以運用穿戴式的檢測數據建立個人專屬健康存摺精準體態的檢測提供客觀的身體數據請問一下如果這個學校在屏東他已經提出這樣的想法了你們運動部會不會要提擬一個推廣計畫接受季專校園的提案來協助我們推廣這樣的一個計畫呢"},{"start":338.462,"end":364.898,"text":"報告委員目前大仁科大這部分是還沒有跟我們這邊來提出申請不過因為他具備了相關的一個條件是不是我們這邊也輔導大仁科大這邊是的那個跟我們來提出相關的一個申請設置部長我是希望你們要一個推廣計畫善用這些公私立的計專校院而且你們有沒有建立一個受理提案的標準告訴這些公私立的計專校院可以來提案有沒有一個標準審查標準有沒有有"},{"start":366.148,"end":388.195,"text":"書長有嗎?有,我們有設立相關的一個審查標準,這部分當下都有提供給大家。謝謝,所以部長,您這個部署不錯,來,下次有機會給他一個調升一下,往下看,加薪啊,口頭加免都可以。運動部是不是來擬定一個體適能檢測的推廣計畫,把納入公私利率的計算效應來合作,要不要?可以嗎?"},{"start":389.406,"end":406.539,"text":"有可以另外你們也已經成立了一個建立了一個受理提案的標準是不是趕快的把這樣的提案標準趕快的廣為跟這些大專校院宣導請他們來提案幫助我們運動部來推動全面運動好不好好可以喔那就謝謝部長跟署長謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168390","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168390","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc73fced0640d51f030ff16f9abdda18f34155eb231b44028893b12e6e223e8e7575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"12:01:14 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那是外包裝喔"},{"start":177.924,"end":200.736,"text":"事實上整個農業生產的過程,以我們昨天講的那個絲瓜、菜龜我都從甜甜的套袋一直到最後產品這一系列的部分我們都會去算那一開始農民有時候會擔心說是不是會棄價,所以他本身就會多訂"},{"start":201.576,"end":210.046,"text":"那多訂的時候他會先多囤嘛所以會造成一些假性的需求啦就是說他先放的啦這個能夠有時候變成是恐慌嘛過去買一份的現在如果買五份買了比較多了"},{"start":216.773,"end":238.176,"text":"所以我們有跟農民跟業者說明就是說這個東西可能是短時間的一個漲價你們不要去囤貨因為越囤的話那可能那些以後漲價的時候你反而更會吃虧啦所以我想我們第一個確保它的量的穩定跟供應這個是最重要的"},{"start":238.877,"end":243.981,"text":"對農業來說農業比較困擾的就是它的成本漲價它是沒有辦法轉嫁給很難轉嫁給消費者因為農業基本上還是透過所謂的配飯嘛透過那個拍賣市場所以它是沒有辦法轉嫁所以農民是會完全吸收"},{"start":261.494,"end":280.458,"text":"這一些包材漲價後的一個狀況,對農民來說相對比較辛苦我希望保廉要去注意這點我了解,我們隨時去了解,而且從必要的一些協助我們也會來處理那我也想請這個代理主委,就是說現在對農業的部分,農業包材的部分漲價漲得這麼的可怕這件事是不是你要注意一下"},{"start":287.879,"end":302.228,"text":"各位委員報告有關塑膠製品的一些漲價情形目前我們都有密切在觀察那關於這個農業包採漲價的部分我們關鍵的重點可能還是在於有沒有聯合漲價這個部分但委員當然我大概可以理解委員很關切這個個別農民對於高價的問題"},{"start":304.89,"end":331.361,"text":"那這個部分從公平會角度公平會是一個事後執法機關我們調查證據來處理那解決農民短期內所面臨到這個因為供需臨時失衡的問題我覺得像產業主管機關他們透過一些產業的作為那個速度可能會比公平會要來得快包含這個農業部的積極的事實上公平會很多很簡單有時候你們只是一個你們一個了解基本上就可以稍微壓抑住一些比較不合理的一個漲價因為我們說實在的"},{"start":335.562,"end":360.848,"text":"戰爭從發生到現在 事實上對很多他在過去他是在銷庫存他事實上只要銷他的庫存 還沒有到需要漲價的程度可是事實上卻被漲價了 這件事我認為是不合理當然你們認為違法是在於有沒有聯合行為嘛 對不對不對 你們適度的去了解就可以壓抑一下他們現在這些不合理的漲價我們在每次跟業者了解的時候 我們都會提醒他們"},{"start":361.508,"end":366.212,"text":"就是不要違反公平法這個所謂的漲價 也不要任意的漲價啊事實上就我們了解應該還沒有嚴重到說要讓他們全部棄 棄 棄 棄因為我們都照常在出啦所以這個事情 公平會你們還是要角色稍微這個該棄的要棄之類的 是是是好 那我再問一個針對我們還是針對我們農業部 這個陳部長這裡"},{"start":384.565,"end":406.76,"text":"之前就有在關心就是這個林農國有林地的這個爛墾地續辦清理計畫那我們現在到明年的大概3月就會到期了那既然這個續辦清理但是很多這一些林地的農民他們在辦續辦清理的時候遇到實際的一個狀況就是說他們要去證明在民國在民國57 58年後"},{"start":414.226,"end":431.507,"text":"58521就有在有在這一個他們的這個林地這裡有去管理做林間管理但是事實上咧我現在說的這林地大概都是會被撤退的啦這個被撤退的本來區域就比撤退比較多所以他們也沒有必要去把區域撤掉"},{"start":432.328,"end":437.011,"text":"我想部長也知道 樹木把它砍伐掉對我們這個林地的一個保育就是錯誤的啊所以他們做低度管理就是說樹木會比較有孫子然後他們這樣就變成一個林下經濟那既然有這樣一個林下經濟對於我們整個國有林地的保護也都是正面的而且他們跟我們這個林務跟我們國家承租 負擔租金"},{"start":458.466,"end":480.624,"text":"然後他們在做這個竹筍的這樣的一個管理我感覺這是證明的但是現在卻一直說他沒有辦法去證明當時候有竹林因為他空拍起來就看得出來沒辦法證明有竹林他現在要怎麼證明所以這個部分是不是能夠卓度的一個放寬"},{"start":482.626,"end":510.685,"text":"我跟William報告就是說這些爛梗地的部分其實我一直希望從源頭的58527跟82721本身能夠做一個更有效的解決那第二個但是這個需要一點時間去做溝通我們已經在處理這個部分那你講的就是說有一些竹林的部分它還有混植一些樹木的部分從杭照圖看不出它是不是有經營那這個部分我想"},{"start":511.525,"end":536.742,"text":"如果有這樣的一個疑問的時候我們可以去現刊那現刊的話其實可以看得到他是不是有這個經營我當然沒有辦法去回推到58年的時候但是我覺得農民有一個習慣我滿被走過的一直在做我不會是為了你來看才去做那那個土地的這些經營的樣態是可以判斷的啦那我想我會用這個方式請我們林保署這邊出來"},{"start":537.462,"end":557.117,"text":"阿部長事實上我們要講的就是說對這一些損農來 進地下的來說他那個叫做低度管理啦對啦你要說他那邊管理到說有一個農場那不合理啦那也不符合我們對林地的一個保護我們就希望他樹木存在嘛樹木存在那這麼有發地下 他們我就去收地下我覺得同意啦 就是說"},{"start":558.498,"end":584.535,"text":"竹林的經營不能用一般的農業經營的角度去看這個在限定判斷的時候我想我們同仁應該會那個拿捏應該會有一個標準可能喔 最近可能安排一下因為這個有時間限制他到明年的3月他的續班清理的一個這個租約就申請就結束了所以現在大家會急會掛所以我們可能趕快去協助他們"},{"start":585.255,"end":612.94,"text":"讓他們的租約可以繼續來維持這樣好不好了解 我想跟委員報告就是您之前也關心了很多郭爾林地或者是林場的部分都不能領天然災害嘛是我們現在已經把這個二三十年來沒有辦法解決的問題解決了就是郭爾林租地的話你只要保有三成的種樹的部分那其他的作物排除了一些波地有沒有這些超限利用的部分已經可以開放給天然災害的一個申請"},{"start":613.98,"end":616.222,"text":"這個也是你們當初那個那我們真的解決三四十年來沒辦法解決的一個問題沒有錯 保證這請按個讚謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168389","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168389","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc752d704390bd6d6d4d16b10bbffbc7f67155eb231b4402889e4add9a9fc88eabd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:55:38 - 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上次跟部長一起去爬觀音山希望下次有機會再一起去跑步我覺得我應該是屬於不會喘的那一種委員的體力非常好 令人驚呼有我們金牌部長的認證 讓我信心十足好 那請教一下 因為今天大家都很關心我們的田協本來要舉辦台灣田徑公開賽"},{"start":50.552,"end":76.993,"text":"那這個後來這個田協的秘書長王景成他就說因為總預算沒有過因為這個是應該在這個台灣品牌賽事2.0的預算裡面是屬於這個新興的這一個預算裡面然後因為這筆預算呢現在沒有過嘛總的總預算都沒有過那所以呢他就宣布這個要取消這個賽事我覺得是很可惜那後來今天部長有提到說利用這個基金預算的部分那可以希望田協再來舉辦嘛是不是"},{"start":78.614,"end":95.913,"text":"對 跟委員您報告那真的感謝委員您對於我們這個運動員的參賽權益的重視那在這點上面我們從昨天一直以來應該講說這段時間一直以來在輔導各個協會在現行的狀況下去改為申請這個基金的這個預算然後希望不要影響到運動員的所有權益參賽權益"},{"start":98.396,"end":114.449,"text":"那現在因為這個田徑竟然是屬於贏標籤就表示說國外選手也會來參賽嘛也會來報名嘛對不對對所以如果今天取消的話其實影響的當然我們自己台灣的選手會影響到因為這個可能涉及到說這個今年九月舉行的這個名古屋的亞運的嘛"},{"start":115.51,"end":133.223,"text":"還有有打標的問題還有對國際賽舉辦賽事的一些這個信譽問題對啊所以我是覺得說田協不要輕易就放棄就是說當然我知道他的原因是在於說沒有預算不是說他本身不願意辦那所以說現在用基金的方式那田協有同意說他在願意再舉辦嗎"},{"start":134.224,"end":156.486,"text":"跟委員您報告,那我們今天會在自己在跟田協這邊做積極的接觸,希望他可以繼續舉辦這個賽事。那有沒有信心在讓田協繼續再來舉辦?我個人是希望他可以舉辦成功,因為其實這對不管是國際上還是我們台灣的選手都是一個達標的賽事,其實非常,對選手來講其實非常重要。"},{"start":157.166,"end":175.536,"text":"因為每個選手要參加比賽有一定的積分才能去參加更高階的比賽我也希望說部長跟我們所有運動部的同仁再努力希望這個田協這項比賽不要取消掉這影響到台灣選手的權益很大那也會覺得國外選手覺得說本來要來參加了後來"},{"start":177.177,"end":195.529,"text":"怎麼沒有辦呢?他們不會去管說是因為台灣的這個運算沒有過他們覺得說台灣怎麼把這個賽事取消了那剛剛部長也有提到說除了這個田協要辦這個比賽運算受到影響之外還有沒有其他的類似的這個比賽也受到影響"},{"start":196.792,"end":210.643,"text":"其實應該是從去年運動部成立的時候我們就已經積極輔導各個協會在今年的這個2026年的時候來使用這個公務預算但因為在現行的狀況下那我們都已經轉為輔導協會來使用這個基金的預算"},{"start":215.246,"end":232.632,"text":"過去就是避免會有這樣的事情發生所以其實在公務預算以及基金預算我們都有別類相關在國際賽事的舉辦這一個部分那這部分我們都會積極輔導各個協會那因為停協它就受到影響我在問的是說除了停協之外還有沒有其他的本來是在公務預算後來改成基金的"},{"start":234.953,"end":246.016,"text":"應該是原本輔導各個協會的應該是所有比賽都會有遇到相同的狀況那當然我們都會一併的輔導各個協會我們還是希望說能把原有的賽事能夠繼續舉辦所以我們還是會輔導各個協會使用基金來舉辦賽事那你知道說田徑辦這一場比賽要花多少錢嗎"},{"start":256.018,"end":261.929,"text":"跟委員您報告他申請的總經費為兩千萬兩千萬那我們是就是兩千萬就補助嗎?全額補助嗎?跟"},{"start":265.373,"end":293.85,"text":"跟委員您報告那他申請的補助的本部的補助的這個額度為1472萬那對對對補助占七成左右了嘛對啊那當然對他們來講你沒有這個補助當然要辦下去就很困難了那我希望說除了天協之外其他可能會因為公務預算沒有辦法這個三讀通過了這些協會要舉辦的這個比賽那你現在都是把它轉到基金去的嘛"},{"start":294.73,"end":315.431,"text":"就不要受到影響那會後給我一份資料有哪一些協會今年要舉辦這一個比賽然後本來用公務預算後來轉到基金去了那是不是都可以順利來舉辦會後再麻煩給本席一個資料因為今年九月就是有這個名古屋亞運了嘛那預算有沒有通過對於這個名古屋亞運有沒有影響"},{"start":317.854,"end":334.604,"text":"跟委員您報告這部分預算沒有通過應該是我們民國亞運應該還是在基金的這部分來控制那還好有個基金不然沒有基金的話連這個民國亞運都會受到影響我最後再請教部長我們現在你們這個運動部裡面有這個運動幣對不對對然後呢衛福部有健康幣"},{"start":344.43,"end":356.185,"text":"那你們運動幣就是這個每份500塊讓大家用抽的然後是做運動看比賽添裝備嘛對不對然後呢這個那你知道衛福部他們有健康幣"},{"start":357.839,"end":375.229,"text":"知道那他們健康幣呢他們是說你如果是接種疫苗健康檢查嚴正的篩檢這些行為累積健康的這一個積分所以我是覺得說那當然運動部希望說有這個運動幣但是運動幣我看起來是屬於比較靜態的因為你說看比賽添裝備當然有一個做運動可能到這個運動中心或是其他運動場合這個是屬於比較動態的"},{"start":384.494,"end":410.069,"text":"然後呢這個衛福部的這個健康幣呢又跟運動的關係又比較少它雖然名為健康幣可是就是比較是屬於健康檢查這個癌症的這個篩檢等等然後累積積分那當然呢這個不論是運動幣或是健康幣我想請這一個部長可以參考一下新加坡新加坡他們有一個Healthy 365 APP"},{"start":410.769,"end":431.744,"text":"那它這個Healthy 365 APP它就是你下載一個程式然後它引導民眾在飲食、運動、睡眠這方面做出更有利健康的一個選擇然後它透過可以累積、可以兌換的一個制度讓每一次流汗轉回實質的回饋等於是說你如果有運動"},{"start":433.165,"end":457.582,"text":"運動的這些實質的這些點數可以換成紅利那紅利你可以變成比如說買菜的錢那這個大家就有誘因了而且它這個APP除了個人之外它也可以跟這個社區一起結合然後跟這個社區有一些主題的活動和一些社區的挑戰賽讓個人的活動可以跟社區的這個社群一起來參與"},{"start":458.342,"end":477.532,"text":"那我覺得這是比較動態的因為它直接是透過運動直接透過運動然後累積點數然後呢可以讓大家有這個動機去那除了可以轉成這個紅利買東西那也可以參與這個社區活動甚至還可以做公益啦我不知道部長之前知不知道這個新加坡他們一個健康促進局有這一個APP"},{"start":478.502,"end":507.885,"text":"跟委員您報告那感謝您對於我們這運動幣的重視那其實我們我確實在之前不太清楚新加坡但確實我們在運動幣這一塊確實是未來有正在往這個方向在規劃那其實那所以我是建議啦就是說有運動幣也有健康幣是不是可以跟你們運動部跟衛福部可以做個整合啦跟委員您報告這部分那個這個院長也有指示說我們這個幾個幣都會希望說有這個跨部會的合作"},{"start":508.385,"end":531.005,"text":"大家搞不清楚說健康幣是屬於運動部還是衛福部運動幣大家可能覺得是這個運動部啦但是我是希望說第一個把這兩個幣做個結合第二個比較動態一點的那個動態一點就是說不是我看比賽或是說我就做健檢希望動態一點就是說你有做運動"},{"start":531.966,"end":556.336,"text":"把這個運動呢,利用這個APP下載然後變成一個點數,那這個點數累積呢我們可以做我剛才所講的那些事情可不可以你們朝這個方向參考一下新加坡的這個APP然後呢,鼓勵大家全民來運動我們會往這個方向來對話大概多久可以給我一個方向就是說這個運動必歌當然你們要跟衛福部一起討論啦"},{"start":557.797,"end":575.988,"text":"但是呢大概這個方向如果往這方面來走的話做整合這方面來走的話大概多久可以給我一個初步的報告跟委員您報告因為健康幣目前應該還沒完整的出來那是不是容許我們運動部跟衛福部好好的溝通後續的發展那是不是"},{"start":582.851,"end":595.234,"text":"我會再請運動部還有衛福部我們一起來討論一下好不好給你一個時間短時間你也不容易說這多久能做到因為不是只有你運動部啦還涉及到衛福部好不好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"168388","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168388","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7f0448ba08099f6e1ff16f9abdda18f34155eb231b44028894e59da5588efa9b45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:53:24 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憲隆界委員曾經問過卓榮泰院長因為大家都關心這次的中東的戰事 對於我們物價上漲的壓力所以卓院長說 穩定物價優先 他果然 你們公平會是在裝碎呢 還是裝不懂"},{"start":270.506,"end":280.868,"text":"那也就是說現在已經可能萬物皆長 我們還好3月份雖然公佈的CPI的消費物價指數是大概1.2%因為其實老實講很多人都在質疑這個數字3月份怎麼1.2%可是外食費漲幅是擴大 而且外食費是連續一直不停地在漲"},{"start":293.271,"end":312.543,"text":"所以如果說你高明快都沒有任何具體的作為按照主委剛才的回答我就擔心囉你的意思是說反正現在只有一家UberEats在漲然後呢現在Fupena沒有漲然後就看起來沒有什麼叫做聯合行為但是我已經講了因為這一家他已經在市佔率已經非常非常的高"},{"start":313.624,"end":335.846,"text":"那麼他確實有一個壟斷的行為在那邊而他這樣子一下 他是很大膽 一下調2.5%到3個百分點2.5個百分點到3個百分點他一定會帶動這些餐飲的這種物價的上升我覺得公平會真的不能夠在置身事外 你不是局外人另外因為那個蔡議員來了 我也趕快"},{"start":339.809,"end":361.402,"text":"來 最後一題 也是跟好外送平台有關的因為呢 最近的訊息是 我不曉得這個fulpanda有沒有那個 已經提 跟公平會提出 已經送件這是呢 東南亞最大的一個外送平台他要併購fulpandafulpanda在"},{"start":362.242,"end":376.504,"text":"去年的時候後來你們就是禁止他們結合就是因為他們的市佔率當然主要來自於Uber Eats的關係他們兩家市佔率那現在Krab呢他的最大的股東又是"},{"start":379.433,"end":400.478,"text":"所以我想請問一下公民會在面對這一場這一個併購案裡面你們會不會特別的謹慎小心然後你們主要的關切的點在哪些地方我想這個案子跟前一個案子就關切的重點從公平法的角度是一樣不過剛才跟委員報告前一個案子結合以後市佔率達九成"},{"start":401.118,"end":420.451,"text":"那這個案子是另外一第三家來買一個第二家所以基本上短期內那個市場的結構是一樣但是委員這邊談到的換人經營背後的真正的股東這個部分我們會重視實質控制力的審查所以在案件審查裡面我們也會去看它背後的股權結構是不是已經達到可以來控制這個整個市場所以大家外界會擔心這是不是偷了一幕嘛"},{"start":422.392,"end":426.333,"text":"我們會注意這個問題所以我覺得因為這些外送平台它關係我們太多消費者的權益所以不管它是漲服務費也好或者它這個新的必購案也好我希望公平會都能夠站在當然一個是產業發展另外一個消費者的權益非常非常的重要"},{"start":446.738,"end":463.783,"text":"好不好 因為我們不希望說我們在去年所通過的外送平台我們為了要保障外送平台這些服務業者還有在消費者權益結果竟然變成他們可以任意漲價的一個藉口好不好是 委員 這個問題我們會關切我們有請解釋處理"}]}},{"id":"168397","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168397","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc75d3988e2358d14280a49e36d97d29c5f155eb231b44028890cd0b6bef2137dcc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王安祥","委員發言時間":"12:22:08 - 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還在推就是所謂的國內法制化嘛是 已經送到行政院了那行政院也審議過了現在就等行政院院會通過我們就可以送立法院來排審對 因為現在我們其實有很多勞動法我們都在推啦 學習都在推啦我看你們也寫說要朝勞基法藝人化精神啊是你們對於這個我們很多勞動法適用到遠洋的漁船上你們的見解是怎麼樣"},{"start":234.256,"end":261.792,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們遠洋在境外聘僱漁工這件事那我們勞基法是民國73年是是是我知道這個很多先生也給你們很多意見你們應該知道我們在勞找之前我們就有這一套制度境外聘用這種外籍漁工我知道我知道後來也給你們管嘛對所以我們還是後來跟勞動部的分工上那我們在境外聘僱境外解僱走的是我們遠洋漁業條例的系統"},{"start":262.852,"end":281.187,"text":"那當然現在是雙軌制沒錯但是我們都有共同的目標就是要慢慢地適用國內的一些勞動法制嘛 對不對對 那雙我們雖然是雙軌管理但是未來的終極目標會走到精神都是一致的像勞基法像是最近比較多人提像那個災保法"},{"start":281.727,"end":301.305,"text":"我不曉得你們評估的結果怎麼樣職業安全衛生的部分我們還是適用勞動部的職安衛我們講的是那個災保法保險法就是那個職業災害那委員因為這一塊就是一樣是我們遠洋醫院條例我們自己走的是我們的商業保險"},{"start":304.428,"end":317,"text":"所以我希望能夠逐漸統一我們的法制另外你們在報告裡面寫到說就是你們會要求不能收一些服務費這個服務費確定了服務費你們也要求他們都不能收"},{"start":318.541,"end":345.038,"text":"跟委員報告國內的部分我們在去年就修法完成了就是我們的仲介跟經營者都不能跟漁工收取任何的費用那現在比較麻煩還是在來源國那一塊來源國他要出來的費用現在像印尼出來可能要收6000到7000塊的美金那這個要講清楚如果未來需要我們雇主來吸收那"},{"start":346.419,"end":366.858,"text":"所以我們現在國內啦 其實救護法這邊其實也有很多的問題啦對 這個都要跟來源國講清楚啦要不然這個會...好 知道因為時間關係啦我最後關...就是再問最後一個問題啦是就像我們在301號一些那個計職調查因為經濟部他們已經開始做嘛那不曉得你們這個能力部這邊應該屬於要怎麼配啊因為你們都是小...你們說你們都size都很小嘛"},{"start":367.938,"end":388.893,"text":"委員很內行啊我們百分之八九十的漁船都是自然人個體戶那要做到淨值調查我們現在是希望由大代小所以說我們的貿易商那你的供應鏈裡面有一些的漁船要賣給他的那貿易商在做淨值調查的時候你要想辦法要配合"},{"start":389.453,"end":406.186,"text":"主席已經站起來沒關係啦 我們會後來如果那個醫護署那邊有什麼有一些最新的一些報告 包括CCTV或是Wi-Fi的狀況因為我們過去一直在關注這個議題啦也請醫護署這邊給我們一些書面的資料沒問題 沒問題或是有機會到委員辦公室跟委員做說明可以出現好 我們謝謝王安祥委員發言"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}