{"error":false,"id":["148962"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":148962,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148962","日期":"2023-12-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-10-8-20-20","會議代碼:str":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":10,"會期":8,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2023-12-11T11:33:11+08:00","結束時間":"2023-12-11T11:44:21+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:10","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a72029ded6a6973fc47989bdc0b11ed89c5ff9c986728e607a0322b927b96357d7ed705ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅明才","委員發言時間":"11:33:11 - 11:44:21","會議時間":"2023-12-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就（一）「開放銀行」（Open Banking）政策之回顧與展望（二）純網銀、純網保之發展與挑戰進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查本院民進黨黨團擬具「中央政府總預算案審查程序第三條條文修正草案」案。\n【12月11日及13日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":792,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（11時33分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。主席，請保險局局長上臺，讓主委先喝口水。"],["主席：好，請保險局施局長上臺備詢。"],["羅委員明才：今天大概是本屆這個會期最後一次委員會議了，我們要審慎來思考一下，究竟銀行、證券、保險等金融界，這幾年經營的情況有沒有上軌道。現在目前大概有幾家壽險公司跟產險公司，從過去20年到現在，整個資產規模變化非常非常大，我們知道局長在這個位置很辛苦的經營，也讓所有的業者可以說是大發財，整個金融整體，去年、今年算一算大概已經賺了7,500多億了吧，局長，你覺得他們這樣的表現是不是一個正常的發展？對於未來的話，因為你好像也快退休了，什麼時候退休？你可不可以集你一生的功力，趁最後幾次上臺的機會跟大家分享一下多年來的經驗。"],["施局長瓊華：報告委員，我是明年退休，剛剛委員提到7,000多億的部分，應該是指整個金融產業，至於我們的部分，今年產、壽險都有獲利，但是獲利的程度應該還沒有那麼高。"],["羅委員明才：是，在產險的部分，現在都已經損益兩平了嗎？因為今年遭受很大的傷害。"],["施局長瓊華：今年到10月左右，整個稅後淨利大概是130億左右。"],["羅委員明才：產險的部分嗎？"],["施局長瓊華：初步自結的產險部分。"],["羅委員明才：那比較恢復了，請問產險有沒有還在虧損的或者會倒閉的？"],["施局長瓊華：產險的部分，在6月底的時候還有一家RBC沒有符合標準，但是到目前為止都已經提升到200以上了，產險的部分全部都符合法定標準。"],["羅委員明才：大概有二十幾家嘛，產險。"],["施局長瓊華：對。"],["羅委員明才：壽險的部分呢？從大概20年前到現在，以前的規模很小，現在整個資產規模有多大？為什麼在這短短一、二十年會產生如此大的變化，是政策的支持嗎？因為我們看到買外國的國債及公債最多的其實就是壽險公司，一買就買好幾兆，手上的數字大概是買了多少兆？"],["施局長瓊華：跟委員報告，壽險業目前資產規模大概35兆左右。"],["羅委員明才：35兆？"],["施局長瓊華：對、對、對，國外投資的部分大概22兆左右，大部分，大概有九成多都是在固定收益、有價證券的部分。"],["羅委員明才：大概都是以什麼計價？美元還是歐元？"],["施局長瓊華：有九成左右是美元計價的，九成以上……"],["羅委員明才：九成以上？"],["施局長瓊華：九成以上的國外投資。"],["羅委員明才：對，我看還滿集中的，所以也要小心，海外的投資過去也曾經慘遭滑鐵盧啊！有人投資俄羅斯、有人投資以色列，對於壽險公司未來海外投資規範會不會有一個審核的標準？"],["施局長瓊華：我們都有訂規範啦，尤其是在整個風險控管的部分有要求壽險業對於投資面要進行相關的投資管理。"],["羅委員明才：好像也是有碰觸地雷的啊！"],["施局長瓊華：之前在2008年的時候，那時候也有一些投資虧損，但是現在各公司在整個投資上比過去的法令更行嚴謹，我想他們應該可以……"],["羅委員明才：總共是二十幾家壽險公司吧？"],["施局長瓊華：21家壽險公司。"],["羅委員明才：這21家壽險公司當中有沒有目前還是虧損的？"],["施局長瓊華：以目前來看的話，是有虧損的，比如說像我們後面有幾家RBC還沒有達到法定標準的公司。"],["羅委員明才：三家、五家比較後段班？"],["施局長瓊華：三家。"],["羅委員明才：有三家？這三家會不會倒啊？"],["施局長瓊華：跟委員報告，……"],["羅委員明才：他們增資好像都沒有增資欸！"],["施局長瓊華：有，有一些公司有增資，有一些公司也出售了不動產，然後也提升了出租率，所以在提升RBC上，他們目前都在努力當中。"],["羅委員明才：哪三家？"],["施局長瓊華：這三家就是宏泰、新光跟三商。"],["羅委員明才：三商已經增資了吧？"],["施局長瓊華：三商在上半年跟下半年都有增資。"],["羅委員明才：會不會再出狀況？"],["施局長瓊華：他們也在努力當中。"],["羅委員明才：是，我們覺得壽險公司良莠不齊，你看好的可以好到非常好，賺了很多很多的錢，而經營比較沒有上軌道的居然還會出現虧損，這個不曉得問題是出在哪裡，是因為它的營業限制項目嗎？"],["施局長瓊華：我們大概沒有特別限制哪一家的營業項目啦，有一些公司可能在投資上比較沒有表現的那麼好，有一些可能是業務上的影響。"],["羅委員明才：所以主要是投資方面沒有做好風控或者是投錯地方，比如說投到俄羅斯，結果一戰爭就虧了50億、60億、70億，到現在也還沒結嘛，帳還是掛在那邊。我們希望主管機關對這些壽險公司要特別注意，因為畢竟全民投保的利益是在這個地方，不能讓保戶到時候受到災害的時候要理賠也沒有辦法理賠。"],["施局長瓊華：是，委員我們會努力。"],["羅委員明才：謝謝施局長。"],["施局長瓊華：謝謝委員。"],["羅委員明才：接下來請黃天牧主委。"],["主席：請黃主委上臺備詢。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員好，謝謝你。"],["羅委員明才：黃主委，你好。去年這樣算一算，金融整體的獲益超過7,500億，也大概是歷史的次高，面對這樣一個情況，應該都是養精蓄銳，可以說是兵強馬大，這時候更應該來要求所有的金融相關業者不要讓金融詐騙一再的發生吧，主委，有沒有什麼方法？除了主管機關的注意之外，銀行也要做點事啊，因為畢竟他們是第一線嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實我們配合打詐平臺做了很多法規的調整，銀行在第一線都有配合，包括科技防詐都有在做。"],["羅委員明才：可是還是有詐騙的情況，層出不窮！"],["黃主任委員天牧：詐騙的原因很多，但是就金流阻詐部分，我們真的有努力在做，當然還需要委員多指導，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：金融詐騙變成全國民眾的十大痛惡之一，排名好像是第一還第二，大家覺得好像到處都是危險、處處是危機，可不可以拜託黃主委想辦法，看怎麼樣讓這一些危機化成轉機？不要讓大家一看到這些詐騙都人心惶惶。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員這個拜託我們承擔不起，這是我們應該要做的，而且我們要有同理心，因為每一個人都有可能被詐騙，所以我們在法規上都有在做，包括配合洗防法以及信用卡等方面。當然我想做的也許不見得符合大家的期待，我們會不斷地努力，但是可以看出我們幾乎每個月都有一些新的法規調整、新的制度修正，所以我們是不斷地在精進自己的作為。"],["羅委員明才：因為現在人也有，所以金融機構也有錢，要怎麼樣把防詐防護網安全的設立起來很重要，上一次……"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們最近還把打詐績效放在公平待客機制的評核裡面。對不起！剛剛打斷您的講話。"],["羅委員明才：上一次財政部在網路上，居然變成詐騙集團利用的公家機關。你知道這件事嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：抱歉！我不太清楚。"],["羅委員明才：就是在網路上說財政部有什麼好康的，結果弄半天那個是假的！"],["黃主任委員天牧：金管會也常常被冒用，說他的錢放在金管會被扣留。"],["羅委員明才：金管會也被冒用詐騙嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，我看那個資訊說錢被金管會扣住要找誰，也把我們的名字放進去了。"],["羅委員明才：金管會扣錢有沒有還人家錢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們沒有扣錢。"],["羅委員明才：沒有？"],["黃主任委員天牧：那是假的。"],["羅委員明才：奇怪！為什麼這些歹徒敢在太歲爺上動土？他要打聽一下，黃天牧不是塑膠，也不是好惹的啊！有查出來是誰嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們在我們既有機制上都有查，上週也公布了一些資訊，我們都有定期公布資訊。"],["羅委員明才：我希望要快狠準，真的要把整個打詐、防詐機制充分做好。我們希望所有臺灣的民眾在金融秩序方面可以安心，錢放在銀行是可以放心的，放在銀行裡面定存會生利息是可以領得到的，對銀行是有信心的，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["羅委員明才：謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：羅委員，能不能請你稍坐一下？我們很快就把它處理完。","今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢。現在進行討論事項及臨時提案之處理。請議事人員宣讀今日審查「中央政府總預算案審查程序第三條條文修正草案」一案提案內容，另含臨時提案共一案。宣讀完畢之後就進行協商。現在請進行宣讀。","一、提案內容：","二、臨時提案：","金管會自2019年推動開放銀行（Open Banking）政策，採鼓勵業者以自願自律方式分三階段實施，2019年第一階段「公開資訊查詢」上線、2020年第二階段「消費者資訊查詢」上線，並擬於2023年12月前核備第三階段「交易面資訊」之自律規範及資安標準，進一步擴大實施第三階段服務。","查銀行公會制定之「銀行與第三方服務提供者合作之自律規範」，僅規定銀行在選擇第三方服務提供者（TSP業者）應該要注意的原則，包括要確保TSP業者的資本額、有資安能力、個資風險管理、遵循洗錢防制法等法規。實因TSP業者非金融機構，其主管機關為經濟部，金管會並無管轄權，故僅將查核責任歸責於銀行，倘未來開放銀行實施第三階段金融交易衍生金融消費爭議，恐不適用金融爭議解決機制。","爰要求金融管理監督委員會研議「跨部會監管開放銀行第三方服務提供者，制定完整金融爭議解決機制，確保金融消費者權益」，並於兩個月內提交書面報告。","提案人：林楚茵　　沈發惠　　鍾佳濱"]],"agenda":{"page_end":342,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-20","speakers":["沈發惠","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李貴敏","郭國文","費鴻泰","鍾佳濱","高嘉瑜","陳椒華","林楚茵","羅明才"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就（一）「開放銀行」（Open Banking）政策之回\n顧與展望、（二）純網銀、純網保之發展與挑戰進行專題報告，並備質詢； 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吧"},{"start":457.588,"end":476.562,"text":"主委有沒有什麼方法除了主管機關的注意之外銀行也要做點事啊因為畢竟他們是第一線嘛其實我們很多配合打詐平台做的法規的調整銀行在第一線都有配合包括科技防詐都有在做那可是還是有詐騙的情況"},{"start":478.353,"end":483.656,"text":"金融詐騙變成全國民眾覺得十大痛物之一大概是排名好像第一還第二大家覺得哇好像到處都是危險處處是危機可不可以拜託黃主委"},{"start":505.805,"end":515.411,"text":"想辦法看怎麼樣讓這一些危機化成轉機讓我們不要一看到這些詐騙都覺得人心惶惶"},{"start":517.642,"end":546.241,"text":"委員這個拜託我們承擔不起是我們應該要做的而且我們是同理心每一個人都有可能被詐騙所以其實我們在法規上包括配合洗房法包括我們自己對信用卡各方面我們都有在做當然我想做的也許不見得符合所有大家的期待我們會再不斷地再努力但是可以看出來我們幾乎每個月都有一些新的法規的調整新的制度的修正所以我們是在不斷地在精進自己的作為"},{"start":547.164,"end":551.032,"text":"因為現在人也有所以金融機構也有錢要怎麼樣來"},{"start":552.472,"end":579.309,"text":"把這個防詐的防護網把它安全的設立起來很重要我們最近還在公平待客中把那個打詐的績效放在公平待客的機制的評核裡面是對不起剛剛打斷您的講話上一次居然財政部還在網路上變成他是詐騙集團使用的一個公家機關你知道這件事嗎抱歉我不太清楚"},{"start":580.368,"end":601.635,"text":"他就是說在這個網址上財政部有什麼什麼什麼後康的還是什麼的結果弄半天那個是假的金管會常被冒用說他的錢放到金管會被扣留啊金管會也被詐騙嗎對啊我看那個資訊中也說錢被金管會扣住你要找誰找誰也把我們的名字放進去了"},{"start":601.872,"end":628.982,"text":"那儘管會扣錢有沒有還人家錢啊?我們沒有扣錢啊沒有那是假的是假的?奇怪那為什麼有這些歹徒他敢在太歲爺上動土他要打聽一下啊黃天牧也不是塑膠啊也不是好惹的啊那有查出來是誰嗎?我們在我們紀有記這上都有查我們上都也公佈了一些資訊我們定期都有公佈資訊"},{"start":630.677,"end":657.511,"text":"我希望說是要快很準把這個打詐防詐整個機制真的要充分的做好我們希望所有的民眾在臺灣在金融秩序方面大家是可以安心的錢放在銀行是可以放心的放在銀行裡面有定存還有升利息是可以領得到的是對銀行是有信心的好不好了解謝謝委員知道謝謝"},{"start":660.743,"end":667.976,"text":"好 謝謝羅委員能不能請你稍作一下我們很快就把它處理完"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}