{"error":false,"id":["148966"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":148966,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148966","日期":"2023-12-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-10-8-15-13","會議代碼:str":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":10,"會期":8,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2023-12-11T11:07:48+08:00","結束時間":"2023-12-11T11:19:23+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:35","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a720290eeda929a2a5e6e394fc233f19f174e7c986728e607a03227c441aaa3034334b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"11:07:48 - 11:19:23","會議時間":"2023-12-11T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員、內政部部長、警政署署長、消防署署長、海巡署署長、原住民族委員會主任委員、國防部、法務部就「第16任總統副總統及第11屆立法委員選舉選務工作辦理情形、執勤軍警消海巡人員投票權益、文化健康站等工作人員於選舉期間之行政中立」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請司法院列席備詢。二、原住民身分法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原住民身分法修正草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等16人擬具「原住民身分法第五條、第七條及第九條條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員劉櫂豪等18人擬具「原住民身分法第九條條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員郭國文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等18人擬具「原住民身分法第四條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員蔡適應等25人擬具「原住民身分法第四條、第七條及第八條條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳明文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第九條條文修正草案」案。三、原住民族工作權保障法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等17人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法修正草案」案。(四)審查委員陳瑩等16人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第十一條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員陳瑩等17人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第四條條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員廖國棟等25人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員孔文吉等22人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。四、姓名條例：(一)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等16人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華SaidhaiTahovecahe等20人擬具「姓名條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具「姓名條例第九條條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員廖國棟等16人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案。【12月11日、14日兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":608,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（11時7分）主席，我們請李主委。"],["主席：李主委，請。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["王委員美惠：主委早。主委，明年1月13日要選舉了，剩33天，你們在12月8日有開一個記者會，說外來介入選舉或賭盤的問題，是不是在很多群組裡也有很多單位叫人去煽動大家，所以你們開記者會說大家可以去找找看這個消息是真的還是假的。主委，像是阿公、阿嬤都是聽收音機，也沒有在用手機，當這些消息傳出來，街頭巷尾一個傳一個，你認為這要如何去宣導比較好？"],["李主任委員進勇：有關錯假訊息的防制，也是我們今年選務非常重要的一點，而錯假訊息的防制，當然我們在第一時間掌握了訊息來源之後……"],["王委員美惠：沒有啦！主委，本席要請教你的是，你們在12月8日的記者會，你說得很清楚……"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有記者會，可能是我們有關澄清的新聞稿。"],["王委員美惠：對啊！你們的新聞稿就是教大家怎麼去瞭解這個訊息是真的還是假的。我現在是要請教你，你要怎麼用這個機會來宣導？來，這樣你要怎麼說？"],["李主任委員進勇：第一個當然是民眾的識讀能力應該要提升，但是這可能不是短時間內能夠做到的，訊息……"],["王委員美惠：短時間沒辦法做到，剩33天就要選舉了耶！"],["李主任委員進勇：有關訊息的真假，其實有一些事實查核機構所提供的資料可以作為參考。"],["王委員美惠：主委，因為本席看到你們發這個新聞稿，我覺得他們這就是在傷害臺灣的民主、選舉，所以隨便發假消息，現在本席就是要跟你們說，你們只說這些沒有意義啦！你叫大家去瞭解……"],["李主任委員進勇：我們第一線一定要及時地說明，透過不同的媒體管道報導出去，讓大家知道。"],["王委員美惠：主委，只有剛開始第一天而已，再來就沒人知道了，收音機等等也可以宣導，有很多宣導方式啦！"],["李主任委員進勇：我們用多元的管道，也有宣傳的……"],["王委員美惠：因為本席認為好的人才要讓他留下來……"],["李主任委員進勇：也有請麟洋配……"],["王委員美惠：越接近選舉，消息會越恐怖，本來沒有的事情被一直說、說、說，就變成好像真的一樣。"],["李主任委員進勇：其實不只我們中選會在做這個錯假訊息的澄清，政府各部門都有在處理這個部分。"],["王委員美惠：對啦！因為你們12月8日有發這個新聞稿，我是要跟你們說……"],["李主任委員進勇：我們也是職責所在，一定要做的。"],["王委員美惠：我是認為應該可以做得更好啦！"],["李主任委員進勇：好，我們會再加油。"],["王委員美惠：請內政部長及法務部。"],["主席：請林部長及黃次長。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["王委員美惠：部長好、次長好。本席要和你們探討的是，因為快選舉了，你們有感受到壓力，所以你們在11月30日發布，檢舉境外介入選舉或是賭盤，總統的部分是1,000萬，有這樣鼓勵百姓的……"],["林部長右昌：對，我們有這個獎勵獎金的措施。"],["王委員美惠：有嘛！"],["林部長右昌：有。"],["王委員美惠：本席為什麼要跟你提到這個，因為我們要多宣導。就是因為常常聽到哪裡有賭盤，或是哪裡有招待去大陸玩，說實在的，里長們都很辛苦啦！那是少之又少的里長才會被招待去大陸玩，其實里長說的也沒錯，那不是白白招待，他還要花1萬2,000塊。部長，所以我們的單位要去查核，為什麼里長會被招待，這是很重要的問題。本席要說的是，立委大家都知道里長的辛苦，因為經濟變化，事務費本來是4萬5,000元，去年調整為5萬，因為我們都知道里長很辛苦，只是有少數里長願意被招待去大陸做思想改造，像這樣的事情，部長，你認為要怎麼處理？因為真的有人接受招待哦！這種思想改造的問題很大，部長請講一下。"],["林部長右昌：跟委員報告，我們一定是經過相關的蒐報，有確定的一些事實，我們會做相關的處理。"],["王委員美惠：部長，你們的單位只要去旅行社查，就會知道有多少人出去、交錢交多少、住在哪裡。如果是去廟會，招待住在廟裡面，這個我們沒話講，但這是住好又吃好，針對這種思維改造，我們真的要有作為。"],["林部長右昌：是，當然。"],["王委員美惠：我認為司法要加強啦，不然只是聽到有人招待，但到目前為止他們都沒事啊，還是繼續在出團，你們講你們的，他們團還是照出。部長，這個問題要注意一下。"],["林部長右昌：當然。"],["王委員美惠：接下來，部長，你也知道我來自嘉義市，而你之前是基隆的父母官。嘉義最特別的就是有一個阿里山，阿里山腳下就是本席所住的地方嘉義市，我們的木都嘉義市有很多木造的房子，約六千多棟，長久以來都無法拿到使用執照。本席要跟你探討的是，在嘉義市一個文創園區裡面，到現在有很多棟歷史建物，其中也有很多你們內政應該要去修法的地方，不然說實在的，如果自己住的只有1樓平房沒差；但因為嘉義市面臨這麼多都是整棟的，未來要做生意也好、年輕人回去要奮鬥事業的也好，未來這要怎麼協助他們？因此你們營建署這方面要與嘉義市政府多聯繫一下。部長，你覺得嘉義市這件事情要如何幫忙協助？來，部長來！"],["林部長右昌：委員你剛剛說的，它是歷史建物還是一般的木造房子，這個不太一樣。"],["王委員美惠：我講給你聽，對，部長，我現在就是跟你說，歷史建物有歷史建物的法條嘛。"],["林部長右昌：對。"],["王委員美惠：而一般住家到目前為止，就是沒有辦法去突破，像我們嘉義市文創園區，一個這麼大的文創園區已經很多年、很多年了，到現在還沒辦法拿到使用執照！"],["林部長右昌：委員，你說文化園區，它既然是在一個園區裡面，應該有相關的計畫才對，而你剛剛說沒辦法取得使用執照是……"],["王委員美惠：這是私人的房子，私人房子未來有關消防的部分，它就沒有使用執照，所以它也不知道要怎麼處理消防。"],["林部長右昌：如果是私人自己使用是沒有這個問題，它要是……"],["王委員美惠：它從過去到現在都沒有申請建物的，就是人家說的違章建築。"],["林部長右昌：但違章建築它是不是有保存的價值，這可能要……"],["王委員美惠：部長，非常有價值！"],["林部長右昌：非常有價值？"],["王委員美惠：所以我希望部長跟營建署、嘉義市政府，這不是要申請你們的費用，只是要怎麼樣協助地方的問題。"],["林部長右昌：是，委員你剛剛說到文化園區，在個案的部分，是不是容會後我請國土管理署跟你討論、研究一下。"],["王委員美惠：部長，我認為我們不是只討論文創園區裡面，對我們這六千多棟的木造房屋也要關心，所以本席希望可以早日讓嘉義市這些木造的有一個保障，能夠多協助！"],["林部長右昌：是，我們再跟委員討論一下，因為木造也有很多不同的類型……"],["王委員美惠：對！"],["林部長右昌：我們再研究看看是不是有辦法來處理。"],["王委員美惠：因為我們以前都是建造鋼筋的，鋼筋的法律就是不同嘛，我們現在是要顧這些木造的，看看要怎麼保存？"],["林部長右昌：我們來研究一下。"],["王委員美惠：以上，謝謝。"],["林部長右昌：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，現在叫做國土管理署，不是營建署。","繼續，陳以信委員，請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":156,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-13","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","陳玉珍","張宏陸","王美惠","陳以信","黃世杰","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅美玲","莊瑞雄","江啟臣","李德維","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳椒華","林文瑞","陳琬惠","邱臣遠","廖國棟Sufin‧Siluko","陳瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員、內政部部長、警政署署長、消防署署長、海巡署署長、原住\n民族委員會主任委員、國防部、法務部就「第16任總統副總統及第11屆立法委員選舉選務工作辦\n理情形、執勤軍警消海巡人員投票權益、文化健康站等工作人員於選舉期間之行政中立」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢；另邀請司法院列席備詢；二、原住民身分法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原\n住民身分法修正草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「原住民身分法第五\n條、第七條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(三)繼續審查委員劉櫂豪等18人擬具「原住民身分法第\n九條條文修正草案」案、(四)繼續審查委員郭國文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草\n案」案、(五)繼續審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案、(六)繼\n續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「原住民身分法第四條及第八條之一條文修正草案」\n案、( 七) 審查委員蔡適應等25 人擬具「原住民身分法第四條、第七條及第八條條文修正草案」\n案、(八)審查委員陳明文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第九條條文修正草案」案；三、原住民族工\n作權保障法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審\n查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(三)審查\n委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等18人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法修正草案」案、(四)審查\n委員陳瑩等16人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第十一條條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員陳瑩等\n17 人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第四條條文修正草案」案、 ( 六) 審查委員廖國棟等25 人擬具\n「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員孔文吉等22人擬具「原住民族工\n作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案；四、姓名條例：(一)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人\n擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 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像你這樣要怎麼說第一個當然是我們民眾的這個嗜讀的能力應該要提升啦齁但是這可能不是第一期間內有辦法做到的這個訊息第一期間沒辦法做到做到33天要甩機了但是這個訊息的真假其實還是有一些事實查核的機構他們所提供的這個資料都可以作為參考的"},{"start":145.345,"end":152.829,"text":"因為主委是因為本席看到你們有發展出來的時候我覺得就是傷害台灣的民主、選舉、歐美共現在本席就是要跟你說跟你們說這個"},{"start":163.914,"end":167.257,"text":"這件事沒意義啦你叫那些人去了解我第一時間一定要說明即時的這個說明那透過不同的媒體的管道要把它說出去讓大家知道主委大那天而已啦再來都沒人知道啦"},{"start":184.393,"end":192.175,"text":"我們也可以收銀機也可以說什麼都可以很多選擇的方法多元的管道多元的管道因為我就是覺得說要有好的領袖要讓人留下因為留下的時候這個消息會越來越恐怖如果沒有"},{"start":205.25,"end":209.419,"text":"一直說 說 說 阿伯有贏了其實也不只是我們選委會在做這個挫甲訊息的澄清政府還有部門都有在處理這件事"},{"start":217.16,"end":230.666,"text":"對啦,我覺得就是說因為他們有12個設備,你們做這個動作,我是要...我們也是職責所在,一定要做的。對啦,我覺得應該可以再做就好了。好,我再介紹,我再介紹。來,請補充法務部,來。林部長、黃次長。"},{"start":241.93,"end":248.075,"text":"來 部長 市長在這裏 大家好我們想跟你談到的就是說應該是最近的選舉 你們有覺得有壓力嗎在一月三十 我們有發佈一個說因為你們如果請我介入選舉的位"},{"start":267.178,"end":271.986,"text":"還是多半的問題選舉的時候總統一千萬有這個問題嘛有這個高的背勢"},{"start":278.292,"end":284.72,"text":"對,我們有這個獎勵的一個獎金的措施有啦齁,因為本席是怎麼會跟你說這些呢?因為我們要多宣導,因為跟他有聽說,跟他再加多半,跟他再交代要去台六七十,跟他給大家說,跟他說實在的啦"},{"start":297.316,"end":311.019,"text":"每個里長都很辛苦的啦,那是少之又少的里長才會向交代去出頭啦,說實在里長他講的也不對,我不是白白交代捏,我還要開辦理考慮捏,所以部長那個我們的單位要去找好,因為"},{"start":320.701,"end":325.744,"text":"事由：立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":344.935,"end":349.798,"text":"這屆任期本來4萬5,調整至5萬,因為我們知道立法院大家都辛苦嘛,只是說辛苦的時候有10萬的願意交代要去做"},{"start":363.425,"end":377.668,"text":"思想的問題裏面像這樣補充你認為要怎麼做?因為真的有人交代去喔來補充你講一下這種思想改造這是非常問題很大我們一定是經過相關的一個搜報他有確定的一些事實我們會做相關的一個處理"},{"start":392.708,"end":397.35,"text":"因為部長您的單位說實在最近有多少出去嘛跟您查嘛,您能誰知道有多少嘛出入有多少人嘛,一到一到多少嘛,住在什麼嘛您如果說啊,我們又廟火,大家交代去住廟的地方,這我們沒話說這期住好又吃好,這思維改造真的我們要有作為"},{"start":422.163,"end":440.033,"text":"因為我覺得要加強啦,不敢聽到說還有人交代、還有人交代還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交代、還有人交"},{"start":447.276,"end":467.744,"text":"在這裏你也知道我來自嘉義市嘛你也是北部縣嘛一家人因為嘉義最特別的就是有一個阿里山嘉義阿里山的橋下就是本省首都的地方就是嘉義市現在很多我們的目睹嘉義市有不怕的會出"},{"start":472.568,"end":480.271,"text":"很大的六千多棟在這裏長久以來都沒有發動起到使用這招本事要跟你探討的就是在嘉義市一個文創園區裏面也有很大棟的到現在立法院的建物裏面也有很多應給你們內政的"},{"start":497.737,"end":507.579,"text":"要去修化一下,不說實在,你若自己長大,加上一年後賺到的沒差,那因為家庭錢沒領的,這些都整棟的,未來要做生意也好,年輕人回去要發表事業也好,未來這要怎樣去讓他們協助,因為我們這個營建事業,"},{"start":521.522,"end":532.133,"text":"要多聯繫,跟這裡的市政府要多聯繫一下,那部長你覺得自己在這件事你要如何,有覺得要怎樣去幫助嗎?來,部長來"},{"start":539.963,"end":550.473,"text":"委員你剛才說的那個記的是歷史建物還是一般的木造的房子這個不太一樣我現在就是要說有歷史建物的法條"},{"start":559.221,"end":574.275,"text":"這裏我們站著的、會站著的現在到不成為之,就是無法去突破像我們文創園區、嘉義市,一個這麼大的所在的文創園區,已經很多年、很多年,到現在還無法站著使用這間"},{"start":581.215,"end":600.142,"text":"文化園區一個人在一個園區裡面應該有相關的價位才對你剛才說的沒辦法輸到修容這是樹林的樹他在樹林的樹的時候就是說未來消防的他如果沒有修容這條樹他也不知道要怎麼消防他如果到處都是樹林去修容是沒有這個問題他是以前到現在都沒有"},{"start":609.125,"end":609.868,"text":"申請檢抹的就是人家在說的違章建築的"},{"start":615.08,"end":627.667,"text":"但違章建築亦是否有保存的這個階段這可能要來...喔!沒錯!很有階段的!喔!很有階段!對!所以說我問問部長及營建署及嘉義市市政府喔!這沒有形成我們的費用,這是要怎樣如果對應這個問題,到底要怎麼做?"},{"start":641.656,"end":652.669,"text":"委員是不是你剛才說到這個文化園區在個案的部分是不是在農會後我請國土管理署我認為我們不是說文創園區裡面"},{"start":657.395,"end":673.249,"text":"我們這個六千多棟的木造的所在我們也要去關心所以說本身我們也能夠將日期這個木造的有一個保障我們要跟委員來討論一下因為木造也有很多不同的類型我們要研究看看是不是有辦法來處理"},{"start":682.757,"end":686.442,"text":"致敬的、致敬的法律就是無綱我們現在是國家的募集要如何保存我們來研究一下以上 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}