{"error":false,"id":["149028"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149028,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149028","日期":"2023-12-14","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-10-8-26-15","會議代碼:str":"第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":10,"會期":8,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2023-12-14T10:35:30+08:00","結束時間":"2023-12-14T10:45:24+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:54","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/60e87dad815fd5c3fd036c7592aeb8bca8fa0c68b4c214c5c986728e607a032256ce73f1065489d25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐志榮","委員發言時間":"10:35:30 - 10:45:24","會議時間":"2023-12-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、外交部、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部、內政部、交通部、國家科學及技術委員會、財政部、金融監督管理委員會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會就「第二十八屆聯合國氣候變遷大會(COP28)返國報告與後續因應情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":782,"blocks":[["徐委員志榮：（10時35分）謝謝主席，拜託請薛部長。"],["主席：有請薛部長。"],["徐委員志榮：部長好。"],["薛部長富盛：許委員好。"],["徐委員志榮：部長跟召委一行，COP28大家辛苦了啦！"],["薛部長富盛：不會、不會，應當的。"],["徐委員志榮：我們剛落幕的COP28，其中今年的會議主題目標就是要盤點巴黎協定要求的工業革命前的基準，全球平均升溫控制在2度C以內，控制氣溫上升幅度在1.5度C為上限。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["徐委員志榮：部長，雖然我們不是會員國，您覺得我們的減碳速度有達到巴黎協定全球盤點的要求了嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：目前看起來，事實上臺灣表現應該是相當的好，特別是包括這次大會通過的一個決議裡面，再生能源在2030年規劃希望能夠有三倍，能源效益……"],["徐委員志榮：我大概也有看到您的說明，我們都優於其他國家的9%，我們好像都有百分之二十幾。"],["薛部長富盛：是，當然還能繼續努力。"],["徐委員志榮：所以你說三倍不是什麼問題。一樣的三倍，在報紙裡面，當然不是結論，早上講的就是倡議核能新方向，美陸等20多國呼籲全球核電產能在2050年提高三倍。當然部長您也有回應了，這個標題是說核廢料不解決，核能就是假議題。您講了三個理由……"],["薛部長富盛：還有核能安全……"],["徐委員志榮：其實不是核廢料不解決，是說核廢料不能解決，這是媒體下的標題，您說的三點是什麼？安全……"],["薛部長富盛：是，還有核廢料解決以及全民共識。"],["徐委員志榮：那它又幫你寫錯了，它這個三點理由是寫安全性、核廢料處理以及核廢存放地點的共識。"],["薛部長富盛：是，那個可能寫錯了，第二點跟第三點……"],["徐委員志榮：我一直看這個第三點，就是包含在第二點嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒錯。"],["徐委員志榮：您講的比較正確，還是要全民的共識，我相信全民應該會有共識，在那個前提之下。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["徐委員志榮：那不禁又讓我想到，我們現在政府的政策不是在講2025非核家園？"],["薛部長富盛：跟徐委員報告，2025即使我們沒有談到非核家園，本身我們也就是沒有核能電廠的，因為現在核二、核三到2025年本來也就是要phase out，就是要除役了。"],["徐委員志榮：等於意思是說，到2025年我們核能發電都歸零了？"],["薛部長富盛：大概歸零了，因為現在你要再重新啟動也來不及了，時間也過了。"],["徐委員志榮：延役呢？"],["薛部長富盛：延役的時間，它有一定的程序，所以也已經過了。"],["徐委員志榮：那重點來了，是不是要經濟部的長官回答？那到時候我們的電夠嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：曾次長要回答嗎？"],["徐委員志榮：本來我們的百分比是天然氣50%、火力30%、綠能20%，早上聽了一下，好像才10%左右，是不是？"],["曾次長文生：哪一個？"],["薛部長富盛：再生能源。"],["曾次長文生：不會，再生能源是今年就超過10%了。"],["徐委員志榮：我們目標是要20%，是不是？"],["曾次長文生：我們到2026年就可以達到20%。"],["徐委員志榮：就可以達到20%？"],["曾次長文生：是的。"],["徐委員志榮：這樣可以完全取代核能發電廠通通停掉嗎？"],["曾次長文生：核能去年8%，今年大概剩5%。它原來的狀況就是核1、2、3大概400億度。"],["徐委員志榮：簡單的講，2025年的12月底，也不是說1月初，簡單講應該講年末啦！2025年的年底核能發電通通要停掉，然後臺灣的電力不會不夠。"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，核三的2號機除役的時間是2025年5月，不是年底，是5月就會除役了。"],["徐委員志榮：我是說最慢啦！"],["曾次長文生：好，現在整個供電的狀況，我們的估計都是足夠的，我們現在討論最主要是怎麼樣再加速減碳。"],["徐委員志榮：所以結論是2025年……"],["曾次長文生：供電是穩定的。"],["徐委員志榮：我說年底，你說5月啦！"],["曾次長文生：對。"],["徐委員志榮：5月核三停掉了以後，我們不擔心會缺電？"],["曾次長文生：我們供電是穩定的。"],["徐委員志榮：沒有問題？"],["曾次長文生：是。"],["徐委員志榮：國人民生用電、工業用電都可以確保？"],["曾次長文生：是。"],["徐委員志榮：那應該是算很好的消息。但是為什麼那些國家又要倡議，說要到2050年提高核能發電的三倍呢？就是因為核能發電有它的優點，當然，這是在部長講的前提之下，包括安全、核廢料處理等等。他們是因為核能發電一方面便宜，二方面可能碳排少，是這樣子嗎？"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，第一個就是比較高的比例的倡議國家本身都有核工業，這是第一件事。第二件事情，這個事情的倡議其實是來自於，因為要在資本市場取得資金的投注遇到了困難，所以才會有這一個倡議。這個是在那個會場上我們看到報導的現實狀況。"],["徐委員志榮：好，話再講回來，雖然2025年核電都要停掉，但是畢竟核能發電總比火力發電，甚至於比天然氣發電更能夠減少碳排嘛！"],["曾次長文生：應該是這樣子講，每一個發電的優劣狀況不一樣，就全生命週期來講，它的碳排比較少。"],["徐委員志榮：一方面便宜啦！我的意思是說，在部長講的這個前提之下，我們是不是還可能會有核能發電？因為我們最終的目標還是要減少碳排嘛？"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，現在……"],["徐委員志榮：所以才會說，譬如我們現在都在講要保持開放的態度，當然有關新核能技術發展，核融合等等，我記得陳院長好像也這樣講，也不是說2025年以後臺灣就絕對沒有核能發電，好像他的態度也不是這樣。"],["薛部長富盛：給徐委員報告，事實上像美國現在就積極發展核融合，因為現有在商轉的大部分都是核廢料……"],["徐委員志榮：什麼時候成熟，我們也還不知道嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：還沒有成熟。我再跟委員報告，美國原本在發展小型模組反應器（SMRs），但他在二個禮拜以前也已經決定要把那個停掉，因為成本越來越高，而且發電的效率也跟他們預期的有落差。"],["徐委員志榮：好，最後我有點想要講的是，倡議的國家都國土很寬廣。"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒錯，他們核廢料處理沒問題。"],["徐委員志榮：我知道好像以前有張憲義的事件，其實就核廢料的處理，台電好像也跟北韓有簽約過，甚至於跟中國大陸也有touch。次長，你在搖頭是沒有這回事嗎？"],["曾次長文生：沒有簽約這件事。"],["徐委員志榮：好像文獻上，我查到的資料是有啦！至少有touch啦！我的意思是，那時候就是因為美國老大反對這樣子，所以就不了了之了。像台積電用電量這麼的大，美國國土又這麼的大，就算我們要繼續核能發電，我們核廢料沒有辦法處理的話，你美國老大又要我們台積電的電子產品，我們萬一電不夠的話，你總要幫我們處理這個核廢料吧？我大概的意思是這樣子。次長，你覺得呢？還是你覺得這是假議題，以後我們沒有核能發電的事情，所以沒有核廢料？"],["曾次長文生：這一題是這樣子，高階核廢料最終處置這個事情，跨國處理到現在國際公約是不同意這件事，這是第一個。第二個，你剛才提到跟其他國家的核廢料的減容處理，那一個事情應該是法國的部分，但是最後預算在立法院被刪除了，我想大概是這兩件事情，跟委員報告。"],["徐委員志榮：總歸一句，2025非核家園，電力可以不用擔心，大家聽起來就很安心了。最後一次的委員會，我不希望副總統候選人等一下站起來，我也很對不起他。謝謝部長、謝謝次長，謝謝主席。謝謝。"],["曾次長文生：謝謝委員。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝徐委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","請張育美委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-26-15","speakers":["吳欣盈","洪申翰","蘇巧慧","吳玉琴","林為洲","邱泰源","黃秀芳","陳椒華","徐志榮","張育美","陳瑩","王婉諭","賴惠員","楊曜","莊競程"],"page_start":393,"meetingDate":["2023-12-14"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、外交部、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部、內政部、交通部、國家科學及技術委\n員會、財政部、金融監督管理委員會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會就「第二十八屆聯合國氣候\n變遷大會(COP28)返國報告與後續因應情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130201_00006"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.40221875,"end":2.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.27096875,"end":4.334093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.37596875,"end":7.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.337843750000001,"end":8.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.907218750000002,"end":12.180968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.31159375,"end":15.589718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.539093750000003,"end":16.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.137843750000002,"end":20.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.41159375,"end":27.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.13221875,"end":27.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.63846875,"end":28.094093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.27971875,"end":28.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.48221875,"end":32.768468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.49909375,"end":28.566593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.89909375,"end":35.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.53596875,"end":40.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.05846875,"end":40.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.00346875,"end":48.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.32721875,"end":54.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.29284375,"end":52.562843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.16159375,"end":58.570343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.85721875,"end":64.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.71721875,"end":78.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.58596875,"end":66.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.32784375,"end":74.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.38159375000001,"end":80.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.72284375000001,"end":95.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.96096875,"end":99.23909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.66096875000001,"end":102.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.73221875,"end":106.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.05221875000001,"end":108.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.52471875,"end":110.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.90846875000001,"end":114.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.08471875000001,"end":119.06721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.91096875000001,"end":120.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.53534375000001,"end":120.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.41284375000001,"end":123.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.95659375000001,"end":126.23909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.04096875,"end":127.85909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.85471875000002,"end":131.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.07784375,"end":137.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.39784375000002,"end":140.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.74784375000002,"end":145.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.79346875000002,"end":145.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.37534375,"end":154.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.73659375,"end":162.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.81971875000002,"end":165.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.27096875,"end":168.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.19034375,"end":169.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.42221875,"end":171.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.88596875000002,"end":174.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.51846875,"end":178.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.52221875,"end":183.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.44534375,"end":190.49909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.76971875,"end":187.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.78596875000002,"end":191.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.32159375,"end":193.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.95846875,"end":195.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.79784375,"end":198.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.26534375,"end":202.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.30284375000002,"end":214.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.67221875,"end":218.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.29221875000002,"end":218.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.10221875000002,"end":222.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.06409375,"end":221.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.06784375,"end":225.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.29534375,"end":227.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.50596875000002,"end":231.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.74159375000002,"end":237.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.03596875000002,"end":240.17909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.04846875,"end":239.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.02721875,"end":240.11159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.17909375000002,"end":240.22971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.17471875,"end":243.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.60034375,"end":248.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.15659375,"end":250.20284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.64159375000003,"end":268.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.57534375,"end":275.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.19034375,"end":283.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.06346875,"end":279.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.00346875,"end":289.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.71971875,"end":293.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.97659375,"end":300.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.14534375,"end":295.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.87846875,"end":302.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.83596875,"end":303.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.59534375000004,"end":303.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.25346875,"end":304.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.41346875,"end":313.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.41721875,"end":309.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.04096875000005,"end":325.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.21221875000003,"end":329.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.64596875,"end":346.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.36096875000004,"end":348.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.55034375,"end":360.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.03784375000004,"end":372.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.04909375,"end":370.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.77034375000005,"end":379.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.66784375000003,"end":381.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.18221875,"end":384.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.45596875,"end":387.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.68346875000003,"end":388.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.30784375,"end":388.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.53971875,"end":390.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.24409375000005,"end":402.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.80409375000005,"end":407.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.16221875,"end":403.37721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.01784375000005,"end":408.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.92909375000005,"end":409.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.21159375,"end":413.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.26159375000003,"end":416.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.72971875,"end":417.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.88971875000004,"end":418.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.56034375,"end":421.16346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.24346875000003,"end":424.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.97721875,"end":438.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.57846875,"end":443.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.69159375000004,"end":447.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.37909375000004,"end":449.36159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.99471875,"end":457.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.25596875,"end":450.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.17471875,"end":461.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.35971875,"end":462.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.43971875000005,"end":463.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.12721875000005,"end":465.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.84846875000005,"end":466.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.79346875000005,"end":470.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.24471875,"end":468.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.16846875000005,"end":472.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.84284375000004,"end":478.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.98159375000006,"end":478.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.04471875,"end":480.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.14159375,"end":491.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.26221875000005,"end":493.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.38846875,"end":495.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.24034375,"end":510.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.53346875000005,"end":513.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.7522187500001,"end":517.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.78971875,"end":531.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.71159375,"end":534.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.75284375,"end":538.6809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":538.90034375,"end":541.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.2165937500001,"end":544.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.3472187500001,"end":549.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.27846875,"end":561.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":562.62659375,"end":571.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.54534375,"end":589.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.82096875,"end":587.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.93909375,"end":588.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.8459687500001,"end":590.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.5334687500001,"end":593.5078437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.75,"end":16.285,"text":"謝謝主席 拜託請薛部長有請薛部長部長好好 徐文豪部長跟召委一行這個COP28大家辛苦了啦不會不會 應當的"},{"start":18.168,"end":32.355,"text":"我們剛落幕的這個COP28其中今年的會議主題就是目標就是要盤點巴黎協定要求的那個工業革命前的那個基準全球平均升溫控制在"},{"start":34.196,"end":53.502,"text":"兩度C以內控制氣溫上升幅度在1.5度C為上限部長您覺得我們的減碳速度有達到雖然我們不是肺炎國有達到我們巴黎協定全球判定的要求了嗎目前看起來事實上臺灣表現應該是相當的好了特別是包括"},{"start":54.482,"end":72.625,"text":"這次大會通過的一個結議裡面再生能源在2030年規劃希望能夠有三倍能源效益那個我大概也有看到您的說明我們都優移其他國家的9%我們好像都有20幾%嘛所以你說的那個三倍不是什麼問題啦一樣的三倍齁在這個報紙裡面"},{"start":81.872,"end":105.818,"text":"當然不是結論早上講的就是倡議倡議核能新方向美陸等二十多國富裕全球核電產能在2050年提高三倍當然部長您也有回應這個標題是說核廢料不解決核能就是假議題您講的三個那個"},{"start":107.716,"end":109.918,"text":"還有核能安全及全民共識"},{"start":128.902,"end":153.763,"text":"它這個三點理由它是寫安全性、核廢料處理以及核廢存放地點的共識所以我一直看這個第三點就是包含在第二點嘛您講的是比較正確啦還是要全民的共識我相信全民應該會有共識啦在那個前提之下"},{"start":155.779,"end":159.726,"text":"那不禁又讓我想到說我們現在政府的政策不是在講2025非核家園"},{"start":164.288,"end":191.813,"text":"給習委員報告齁2025即使我們沒有談到火候加減本身我們也就是沒有核能電廠了因為現在核二核三到2025本來也就是要Face out就是要服役了意思就是說到2025我們核能發電都歸零了大概歸零了因為現在你要再重新啟動也來不及了研議呢時間也過了研議的時間它有一定的程序所以已經也過了嘛"},{"start":192.349,"end":198.095,"text":"那重點來了,是不是要經濟部的長官回答?那到時候我們再電過嗎?本來我們的%數是天然氣50、火力30、力能20,早上聽了一下好像"},{"start":216.758,"end":239.295,"text":"才10%左右是不是哪一個?再生能源沒有不會再生能源是今年就超過10%的我們目標是要20%是不是?我們到2026年就可以達到20%就可以達到20%?是的這樣可以完全期待那個核能發電廠統統停掉嗎?核能去年8%今年大概剩5%"},{"start":244.636,"end":268.536,"text":"那它原來的狀況就是核一二三大概四百億度簡單的講2025年核能發電2025年的時候月底啦也不是說一月初啦簡單講是應該講年末啦2025年的年底核能發電通通要停掉然後我們台灣的電力不配不夠"},{"start":269.639,"end":288.692,"text":"那個跟委員報告就是說河山的二號機除役的時間是2025年的五月不是年底啦是五月就會除役我是說最慢啦好那它的狀況是現在的狀況就是整個供電的狀況我們的估計就是都是足夠的我們先來討論最主要是怎麼樣再加速減碳"},{"start":290.785,"end":304.514,"text":"所以結論是說2025我說年底啦你說5月啦5月核酸就停掉了以後我們不擔心會切電我們供電是穩定的是的沒有問題是國人"},{"start":306.462,"end":327.213,"text":"民生用電、工業用電都可以確保那應該是算很好的消息但是為什麼那些國家他又要倡議說要到2050年提高分農發電三倍呢當然就是因為分農發電是比較"},{"start":331.178,"end":344.516,"text":"部長的前提之下,安全、火廢料處理等等,是核能發電一方面便宜,二方面可能碳排少"},{"start":345.574,"end":370.815,"text":"是這樣子嗎跟委員報告第一個就是比較高的比例他們本身都有合工業就倡議倡議的國家本身他們有合工業這是第一件事第二個件事情就是這個事情的倡議其實是來自於就是要在資本市場取得資金的投注其實遇到了困難所以才會有這個倡議我想說這個是在那個會場上我們看到報導的現實狀況"},{"start":372.276,"end":390.227,"text":"那話再講回來,雖然2025非核、核電都停掉,但是畢竟核能發電總比火力發電甚至於比天然氣發電更能夠減少碳排"},{"start":391.951,"end":416.459,"text":"應該是這樣子講就是說每一個發電它的優劣狀況不一樣就是就全生命週期來講一方面便宜啦那我的意思是說在部長講的這個前提之下我們是不是還可能還有昏龍發電因為我們最終的目標還是要減少碳排嘛跟委員報告所以才會說"},{"start":419.605,"end":437.663,"text":"譬如我們現在都在講說保持開放的態度當然有關新恆隆技術發展什麼融如何我記得好像沈院長好像也這樣講也不是說2025以後就絕對台灣沒有恆隆發展好像他的態度也不是這樣的"},{"start":439.232,"end":465.01,"text":"給習委員報告事實上像美國現在就積極發展核融合因為現有的大部分在商場的大部分都是什麼時候成熟我們也還不知道還沒有成熟那我再跟委員報告一下美國原本在發展叫做小型模組反應器SMR事實上它在兩個禮拜以前也已經決定要把那個停掉因為成本越來越高"},{"start":465.891,"end":492.999,"text":"而且發電的整個效力也跟他們預期的事實上是有落差最後我有點想要講的是說那個參與的國家都國土很寬廣是沒錯他們核廢料處理沒問題我知道好像以前有那個張憲毅的事件其實台電好像也有跟北韓有簽約過就核廢料的處理甚至於跟中國大陸也有太極市長你在搖頭是沒有這回事嗎"},{"start":496.294,"end":516.75,"text":"好像文獻上我是查到資料是有啦至少有touch我的意思是說那個美國老大你就是那時候就是因為他反對嘛反對這樣子所以就不了了之嘛那我的意思是說像台積電用電量這麼的大那你美國國土又這麼的大"},{"start":517.853,"end":534.625,"text":"就是算我們要繼續核能發電的話我們核廢料沒有辦法處理的話你美國老大你又要我們台積電的這個電子產品我們萬一電不夠的話你總要幫我們處理這個核廢料我大概的意思是這樣子不知道您覺得呢"},{"start":540.431,"end":561.298,"text":"這是假議題以後我們沒有活動發展的事情所以沒有核廢料這一題是這樣子就是說高階核廢料最終處置這個事情跨國處理到現在國際公約是不同意這件事這是第一個第二個是你剛才提到就是說跟其他國家就是核廢料的減容處理那個事情應該是在上上屆"},{"start":564.679,"end":586.184,"text":"市長這樣子啦 總歸宜記啦2025非核加嚴 電力可以不用擔心 這個我們聽起來大家就很安心了啦最後一次的委員會 我也不希望副總統霍簡仁等一下站起來啦 我也很對不起他啦好 謝謝部長 謝謝市長 謝謝主席 謝謝"},{"start":591.425,"end":591.726,"text":"請張美璋委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}