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11:24:23","會議時間":"2023-12-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、外交部、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部、內政部、交通部、國家科學及技術委員會、財政部、金融監督管理委員會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會就「第二十八屆聯合國氣候變遷大會(COP28)返國報告與後續因應情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.72284375,"end":0.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.7815937500000003,"end":3.8953437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.262218750000001,"end":17.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.67346875,"end":21.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.91784375,"end":27.520343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.528468750000002,"end":30.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.21971875,"end":36.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.41346875,"end":42.555968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.994718750000004,"end":48.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.884093750000005,"end":48.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.91784375,"end":59.110343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.604093750000004,"end":87.83159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.64159375,"end":112.04721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.75596875000001,"end":113.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.02596875,"end":131.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.90909375,"end":131.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.01034375,"end":145.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.33721875,"end":146.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.97846875000002,"end":154.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.86784375000002,"end":156.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.69846875000002,"end":159.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.82034375,"end":162.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.94221875000002,"end":162.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.95909375000002,"end":180.64409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.19284375,"end":185.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.99346875,"end":187.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.06909375,"end":232.21409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.60221875000002,"end":234.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.57221875000002,"end":239.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.41534375,"end":245.98409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.38909375000003,"end":268.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.84971875,"end":271.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.07284375,"end":313.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.65284375000005,"end":318.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.47909375,"end":355.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.03034375000004,"end":382.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.70534375,"end":382.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.00909375000003,"end":383.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.02596875,"end":385.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.62471875,"end":392.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.08346875,"end":393.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.15096875,"end":393.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.16784375000003,"end":393.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.97784375000003,"end":413.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.58659375,"end":419.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.16784375000003,"end":424.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.82596875,"end":421.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.97721875,"end":426.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.96846875,"end":446.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.44221875000005,"end":446.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.64471875000004,"end":453.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.69846875,"end":459.45284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.45284375000006,"end":490.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.67909375000005,"end":470.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.55346875000004,"end":501.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.97784375000003,"end":508.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.86284375,"end":519.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.4097187500001,"end":520.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.72596875,"end":528.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.5559687500001,"end":529.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.8047187500001,"end":532.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.2009687500001,"end":535.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.79534375,"end":535.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.9640937500001,"end":551.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.98284375,"end":560.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.12096875,"end":558.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.68596875,"end":561.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.37346875,"end":564.6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跟委員報告在主辦國它在會場上面它分為藍區跟綠區最主要藍區是"},{"start":95.993,"end":110.927,"text":"需要有這個大費許可的報名的證件才能進去那立區它通常就會開放給沒有持有這個報名證件但是可以當地這個去登記啦或者是這樣子一個方式去進去參觀"},{"start":112.793,"end":130.93,"text":"好 那個署長你接下來可不可以回答一下為什麼因為我剛剛有提到但是你在附送回答的時候沒有特別再提因為我剛剛有強調就是說綠區在官方文宣上就是有要開放給原住民團體"},{"start":132.772,"end":144.362,"text":"因為我是原住民的立法委員所以我會特別關注這個部分那我想請教署長你可不可以回答就是以你的理解為什麼要特別針對原住民團體來開放呢"},{"start":147.06,"end":159.588,"text":"這個部分的話我沒有特別去了解說但是因為在藍區事實上也有周邊會議我沒有要關心藍區的部分我在這邊要跟你討論綠區特別開放給原住民團體這個部分"},{"start":162.99,"end":191,"text":"我想因為其實氣候公約他非常重視就是跟原住民還有跟這個相關的團體的一些對話跟溝通所以主辦國他或許有這個規劃但這個部分確實我沒有因為我今年沒有到現場去參加我想這個有沒有到現場應該是沒有關係那我覺得其實在整個氣候變遷下是這樣子如果署長不清楚也沒關係"},{"start":192.02,"end":211.906,"text":"那我今天把這樣的觀念特別在這邊跟署長讓署長了解一下那也在座的各位也要特別的注意一下就是一個很重要的原因在氣候變遷下最先衝擊的族群任何國家的政府其實都很清楚的就是"},{"start":212.626,"end":239.301,"text":"大自然環境最密切的族群其實就是原住民族我們因為在這個環境迫害之下整個原住民族的生存權、發展權甚至這個土地自然資源的權利都是被嚴重傷害的所以這個部分特別在這邊提出來讓署長瞭解因為"},{"start":240.495,"end":263.169,"text":"您坐在一個非常重要的位置就是氣候變遷署你是署長所以這一點我希望從現在開始可以特別注意因為未來這個部分到時候我想時間再久一點你會更清楚知道原住民在這整個氣候變遷的一個扮演的角色"},{"start":263.749,"end":264.251,"text":"主要主要主要主要主要"},{"start":272.368,"end":295.138,"text":"在這個1992年的巴西里約召開的這個里約環境跟發展宣言宣言的部分全部27項有規範各國政府環境權利與責任的基本原則其中的第22項揭示了原住民族的傳統習慣與智慧在環境的永續發展上扮演關鍵的角色因此在各國的政府"},{"start":295.558,"end":317.434,"text":"都是要肯定並且支持援助民族參與氣候變遷衝擊一下環境的保護、管理跟監測我想這個概念很重要那身為氣候變遷署的署長要請您特別了解這個概念所以我接下來我要請問署長在未來"},{"start":318.635,"end":339.04,"text":"在您帶領的這個氣候變遷署各項措施的計畫是不是應該根據地球憲章的基本原則鼓勵並支持援助民族運用我們的智慧與生活習慣來協助你們落實淨零排碳的工作請問署長你支不支持這樣子的一個方向是完全支持"},{"start":339.42,"end":354.489,"text":"好 謝謝署長那我接下來要請教就是說那我可不可以請署長你們的這個氣候變遷署可以進一步的加以規劃那針對我剛剛提的這些加以規劃可以嗎"},{"start":355.189,"end":365.317,"text":"是跟委員報告其實在今年立法院三讀通過氣候變遷因應法也很清楚的把原住民就是我們在擬定氣候變遷各項政策的時候必須要將原住民的相關的跟氣候變遷不管是在減緩跟調適都要納入好那所以你們開始規劃了嗎我們現在在進行的包括就是國家氣候變遷行動綱領"},{"start":379.168,"end":394.582,"text":"還有接下來再進行調試計畫都會進行都會納入對都會納入那請問就是你有很你有很認真的把這個原住民族的這個部分你怎麼樣已經加入了這樣子的規劃了嗎"},{"start":396.643,"end":418.908,"text":"這個會隨著每一項計畫在實施就是規劃跟提出的期程的時候那我們會開始包括跟原住民主管機關還有相關的團體那包括這個最重要就是我們立法院相關的委員這邊我們都會開始來進行討論因為我也沒有接到你們任何的邀約所以看起來是還沒有開始"},{"start":420.462,"end":445.727,"text":"對 就跟委員報告沒有關係那我剛剛講這個規劃你需要多少時間來規劃我們現在因為正在規劃是下一期的國家氣候變遷的就是階段管制目標還有這個行政計畫這個部分我們會把它納入那另外的話就是在進行這個氣候變遷調適的相關的作業這個是明年會開始啟動那這部分我們也會進行"},{"start":446.707,"end":460.658,"text":"明年開始啟動那等一下那所以我再問你你還是沒有回答我問題你需要多少時間來規劃好原住民相關的這個特別是原住民相關的這個部分你需要多少時間規劃那跟我們報告我們在至少三個月內我們先就這些計劃跟擬定的時候那需要進行跟這個溝通的一些原則我們先請問你這三個月要跟誰溝通我們先跟這個先擬法我們先盤點"},{"start":475.649,"end":478.081,"text":"依照《氣候變遷因應法》需要進行推動我剛剛說明的"},{"start":480.396,"end":508.197,"text":"這些方案、計畫或者是措施先做一個盤點然後接下來就是需要跟原住民相關團體的這個進行跟進行方式我們來進行討論那剛剛你有特別點名到就是要跟各位原住民的這個立法委員來溝通那我也想要請教你是要跟這一屆的立委溝通還是跟下一屆的原住民立委溝通我跟委員報告我們現在是三個月我們先進行要先盤點有哪一些事項"},{"start":509.057,"end":535.354,"text":"有一些方案措施那需要來提的我們先三個月內先盤點出來那接下來才進一步去提說需要溝通的對象那所以所以你後面才要盤點溝通的對象所以你又說你要先跟原住民的立法委員溝通我真的是有點聽不太懂就是說你的意思是其實剩下這個時間你也沒有要跟我們溝通的意思"},{"start":536.174,"end":560.322,"text":"我想這個都是持續都會再溝通那我們現在因為剛剛委員關心我們氣候法裡面因為會包括的就是減緩跟調適的這些方案跟計劃那我們先盤點出來有哪一些到底接下來有哪一些所以你說三個月就是很明顯其實這一屆的原住民立委你是根本不需要溝通的因為我們的任期就到1月"},{"start":562.603,"end":581.066,"text":"還沒有你的三個月我們裡面的成員可能不一定是一樣但是我很清楚告訴你我會繼續在這邊其實我們在這段期間內也是一直有跟委員包括我們在進行氣候法的修法當時的在訂定的時候也都持續有在做溝通"},{"start":582.574,"end":606.643,"text":"我是沒有太強烈的感覺就是因為我很擔心你溝通的對象不對了啦好那至少我剛剛點出了原住民的這一塊看起來署長從第一個回答並沒有很有概念所以我在這邊我鼓勵你好好去研究一下好那再不然"},{"start":607.748,"end":636.229,"text":"我們即便現在在忙選舉但是我想我們的任期在這邊這個坐一天和尚敲一天鐘嘛辦公室還是都有在運作啊是我們會積極的對啊你總不會等說要確認我在這個我們1月13號確定我有選上之後才要趕快來溝通才要開始慢慢規劃吧是跟我們這段期間其實一直都有跟各個委員在做溝通是有嗎"},{"start":638.649,"end":661.499,"text":"我們辦公室有嗎這個我們會改善有嗎對啊你不要亂講話啊就是各個委員我們辦公室就是沒有所以我今天特別提出來所以要請署長特別注意嘛對啊那你要三個月我很擔心啊那你如果要溝通其實你從現在就可以常常來溝通啊我吧台都開著是謝謝"},{"start":662.379,"end":683.812,"text":"對啊所以我最後再請教一下世界銀行去年指出全球已經有68個國家或區域區域已經有這個碳定價了那今年會有多少國家有定價這個都是要依照那個世界銀行跟各國去做的這個趨勢那在今年初的報告是73個國家或地區"},{"start":685.509,"end":707.423,"text":"今年會有73個國家跟地區我想是這樣我們台灣的這個碳交易平台的相關法則不知道現在是進度怎麼樣那是不是有如你們的預期那我比較好奇的就是說你什麼時候來完成訂定這樣子"},{"start":708.824,"end":724.309,"text":"我們現在的時程是預計就是在最近會先把這個碳費徵收的相關的規劃來做一個預告那明年的話明年1月會開始就是針對費率的部分會進行這個由費率審議會來做討論"},{"start":726.482,"end":751.145,"text":"那所以什麼時候完成你有預估的時間嗎我們現在很清楚就是明年的碳排放都會被計到這個碳費徵收的範圍也就是說明年開始這個碳費徵收就會上路那你打算一頓大概訂多少錢這個要由明年的碳費的費率審議會來做討論跟決定好所以那個我剛剛前面問的就是說你預估何時完成訂定目前你們是"},{"start":752.165,"end":777.687,"text":"沒有竊竊預期的時間會在明年的第一季把包括這是碳費的徵收辦法還有費率審議會這個這個費率的部分來做明年第一季大概就會做確定好那這樣子我我只是提醒我們這個各國的經驗其實看起來應該都是越早實施好那整個挑戰就會越小所以我在這邊特別提醒署長好謝謝委員好謝謝"},{"start":784.667,"end":785.282,"text":"謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}