{"error":false,"id":["149083"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149083,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149083","日期":"2024-01-09","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"臨時會院會-10-8-1-1","會議代碼:str":"第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議","屆":10,"會期":8,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":1,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-01-09T11:14:17+08:00","結束時間":"2024-01-09T11:30:15+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:58","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7594f10b9bbee689e472d92542a4cc1c826b98f121effac12be4303bcf228b502b845617e607d9b15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:14:17 - 11:30:15","會議時間":"2024-01-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議（事由：行政院院長提出「是否公布高端合約？是否圖利廠商及危害全民健康權益？」等相關事宜專案報告並備質詢）","gazette":{"lineno":845,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時14分）謝謝主席。我想請我們陳院長還有衛福部薛部長。"],["主席：陳院長。"],["王委員鴻薇：還有法務部蔡部長"],["主席：蔡部長。"],["王委員鴻薇：以及金管會黃主委。"],["陳院長建仁：王委員早安。"],["王委員鴻薇：早安。先請教院長，剛才您回答邱泰源委員的時候，你有特別提到那兩個市長在疫情的時間沒有做好，請問一下，你所指的兩位市長是指哪兩位？"],["陳院長建仁：當然就是臺北市的市長跟新北市的市長，在當時萬華地區老人茶室產生散播的情況……"],["王委員鴻薇：你認為萬華是破口嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：最主要的情況在當時的這個事件一發生的時候，我們要……"],["王委員鴻薇：你剛才講的是臺北市市長跟新北市市長？"],["陳院長建仁：當然是……"],["王委員鴻薇：就是講柯文哲和侯友宜，是吧？"],["陳院長建仁：是啊，當時是他們在當市長。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為在之前幾個答詢裡面院長認為今天臨時會跟選舉有關，但是在這個場合，院長特別針對另外兩位現在的總統候選人做指控，我覺得這是行政不中立，其實我覺得我們在這裡應該就事論事……"],["陳院長建仁：我是就事論事……"],["王委員鴻薇：如果你的標準是一致的……"],["陳院長建仁：我在講防疫的結果、防疫的效果不好。"],["王委員鴻薇：你在這個時候去攻擊另外兩位非執政黨的候選人……"],["陳院長建仁：沒有攻擊，我講的是事實。"],["王委員鴻薇：這代表你行政不中立。"],["陳院長建仁：我講的是事實，委員我可以回答嗎？"],["王委員鴻薇：隨便啊！你不用再回答，我就是要指控，我認為你行政不中立。"],["陳院長建仁：當時2021年的時候……"],["王委員鴻薇：你不要浪費我的時間……"],["陳院長建仁：在整個臺北、新北市有一個很大的流行產生……"],["王委員鴻薇：主席，我可不可以質詢？可以嘛！","因為這個問題滿重要，剛才我也有注意到賴士葆委員也特別提到高端的合約能不能公開，因為我們現在的說法是這是廠商要求，那麼廠商沒有同意……"],["陳院長建仁：不是廠商要求，委員您講錯了，不是廠商要求。"],["王委員鴻薇：這跟我們王必勝署長的講法可能不一樣，說要股東會、董事會，但是不管，政府的說法是因為這是要看高端，也就是廠商願不願意同意。"],["陳院長建仁：我們簽了保密協約、保密條款。"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道，你們講過很多次。但是在110年5月30號，因為高端是上櫃公司，它發表重訊提到有關限制條款是依採購機關要求，合約其他細節不予公開。剛才賴士葆委員有特別問到這件事情，對不對？薛部長的回答是它要怎麼講，它也沒有問過我們政府，所以，我請問部長，它這個說法是正確的還是錯誤的？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，我們沒有要求他不公開，應該是依照合約不公開。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以他是依照採購機關要求，採購機關一定是衛福部。"],["薛部長瑞元：不是，採購機關沒有要求，是依照合約。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以部長很明確地告訴我們，這個重訊的訊息是錯誤的，是不是？"],["薛部長瑞元：可以這麼說，因為是依照合約。"],["王委員鴻薇：那請教部長，因為我剛剛特別提到他的重訊時間是民國110年5月30號，已經長達2年半，就這樣錯誤的訊息，請問衛福部是否曾經要求它更正，或是曾經去告它，說它這個根本是錯誤的訊息？衛福部有沒有做這件事情？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們在那之後，就有發文給高端，請它考慮公開合約。"],["王委員鴻薇：不是，你這是兩碼事，我說它這個錯誤的資訊，你們有去告它嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：它的重訊要怎麼公布，或者是否有錯，並不是衛福部要去管理的，這不在我們的權責……"],["王委員鴻薇：可是衛福部是採購機關……"],["薛部長瑞元：那跟這個無關……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我的問題是……"],["薛部長瑞元：這跟重訊的發布無關。"],["王委員鴻薇：既然這個訊息是錯誤的，為什麼衛福部在這麼長的時間裡面沒有去告它？"],["薛部長瑞元：因為這不是我們的權責。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，你都去告立委了！你都去告立委了！"],["薛部長瑞元：那是兩件不一樣的事！"],["王委員鴻薇：你為什麼不告高端？是不敢告嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：我為什麼要去告高端？因為那個不是我們的權責。"],["王委員鴻薇：這個就是錯誤訊息啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：錯誤訊息由主管機關去處理。"],["王委員鴻薇：無所謂？好，我為什麼把金管會主委找來，所以你不敢告高端，現在就請問主管機關，請問一下金管會主委，這樣的錯誤訊息，我們有去處罰它嗎？有去處分它嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：它發布的重訊是依照上櫃公司重訊發布辦法去做的，內容由櫃買中心那邊或當事人去做一個確認。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以在我今天的質詢裡面，衛福部長說這個訊息是錯誤的，但是衛福部不去告它，金管會會處理嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：當時並沒有特別人指出，所以櫃買中心……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我現在直接問，現在金管會會立刻去處理，讓證交所去罰它嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想我們會請櫃買中心再去瞭解當時它發布的背景，剛才我也跟賴委員這樣報告。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以包含衛福部、金管會，針對這個嚴重影響、嚴重損害政府威信的重訊，竟然不聞不問，竟然不敢告高端？好，時間暫停一下，我請問一下法務部長。部長，為什麼要請您上來？我認為高端的合約已經引起這麼嚴重的爭議，舉國都覺得為什麼不公開？連我們的副總統賴清德、民進黨的總統候選人都覺得應該公開啊！可是整個行政院把賴副總統的話當成空氣，從他講完到現在，今天已經第10天了，到現在為止沒有公開，就算我們開臨時會還是不公開！我覺得非常不解，到底在怕高端什麼？連這種錯誤且損害政府威信的訊息也沒有人處理！既然部長你在這邊，我直接要求法務部調查衛福部有沒有瀆職！兩年半了，它說之所以不能公開，是政府、採購機關要求不能公開；但衛福部長說這完全是錯誤的！即使是完全錯誤的，卻也不理不睬，這不是嚴重瀆職嗎？所以我要求法務部長、法務部立刻調查衛福部，包含衛福部長，還有疾管署有沒有瀆職的問題？"],["薛部長瑞元：王委員，你要不要去告？"],["王委員鴻薇：等一下，我現在在問部長……"],["蔡部長清祥：這不是法務部的職責。對於有沒有涉及刑事責任是由檢調機關來負責，而法務部是負責行政業務。我知道過去檢察機關曾經調查過，相關案件有63件之多……"],["王委員鴻薇：報告我都看到了，都查無不法等等。但我現在有新事證，我現在有新事證，我一樣請地檢署來偵辦。我真的覺得很奇怪，為什麼政府對高端這樣莫可奈何？到底在怕高端什麼？我剛剛講，薛瑞元部長都敢告立委了，為什麼不告高端？我要是你的話，我立刻告高端亂講話！怎麼說是我不讓你公開？明明是你高端說不能公開的？","高端昨天又發布重訊，敝人在下我也在裡面。它說它要告我跟另外的3位候選人講的股東名冊問題。我時間有限，今天就不請經濟部長上來了。真的笑死人了，你們不要天天怕高端，因為高端只會濫訴！所謂的股東名冊，去查一下銀行法第二百十條，清清楚楚告訴你股東名冊可以怎麼取得，搞不好蔡部長是清楚的。對於高端這樣不敢公開，只會濫訴的一家公司，然後我們任它予取予求？所以我在想，高端到底是何方神聖？我想請問陳院長，在2016年您跟蔡英文總統搭檔，那時候你是副總統候選人，您有收受過高端、高端股東，或高端之前的前公司、前身等等的政治獻金嗎？有嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有，我只是參加高端的臨床實驗而已。"],["王委員鴻薇：你沒有，對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有。"],["王委員鴻薇：我在這邊也幫你背書，我查過了，您沒有。我剛剛講過，高端的股東名冊並不難取得，根據相關法律是可以取得的。這是之前侯漢廷議員所公布的高端股東捐款名單，大概所有政治人物都在內。我剛才說我幫陳建仁院長背書，我們查過了，2016年您是副總統候選人，那一次你們沒有接受過高端的任何政治獻金；但在2020年，蔡英文總統、賴清德副總統就有接受到高端股東的政治捐獻。可以看看這裡面洋洋灑灑，包含縣市長、包含立法委員……"],["陳院長建仁：委員、委員……"],["王委員鴻薇：包含議員！"],["陳院長建仁：委員，高端股東有四萬多人，這四萬多人再怎麼去找，還是會找到有一些願意做政治獻金的人，你這樣單挑高端股東來講，我覺得是不公平！"],["王委員鴻薇：就是剛才部長跟您咬耳朵……"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！他告訴我……"],["王委員鴻薇：我要講的是……"],["陳院長建仁：他告訴我高端股東有四萬多人啊！"],["王委員鴻薇：我要講的是，我不解的是為什麼今天我們都召開臨時會了，召開臨時會是正確的，雖然過幾天馬上確實就有大選，但是在立法院召開臨時會本來就是一個民主國家、民主政治的程序，然後我們所有的立法委員，比如像邱泰源委員覺得他非常珍惜今天的質詢，我看了也非常感動，大家想利用這一次臨時會把一些大家想要釐清的事情或者最近發生的事情來請教我們的行政單位，但是為什麼到今天仍然不敢公布高端的採購合約？說實在的，我真的覺得我也為賴清德不值啊！"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我可以回答嗎？"],["王委員鴻薇：好，您說一下，我時間不多了。"],["陳院長建仁：好，我剛才在報告的時候你沒有來，所以你沒有聽到我的報告……"],["王委員鴻薇：但是這個報告我都看過了！"],["陳院長建仁：好，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你剛才講的，包含部長講的都在裡面了！"],["陳院長建仁：既然你看過報告，你就曉得因為我們跟高端簽有保密的協定……"],["王委員鴻薇：那不用看今天的報告，前幾天你們就在講了！"],["陳院長建仁：在保密協定裡面，我們政府是簽約的一方，當然就要遵守簽約者的義務嘛，所以維持政府的誠信是相當重要，如果政府的誠信一旦沒有辦法維護，未來政府要採購相關的疫苗、藥物等等的時候……"],["王委員鴻薇：政府誠信很重要，……"],["陳院長建仁：其他的公司就……"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，政府誠信很重要，但是政府的威信也很重要，我剛才特別提……"],["陳院長建仁：沒有錯，所以政府的威信我們有跟高端講……"],["王委員鴻薇：對不起喔，我剩一點點時間……"],["陳院長建仁：我跟高端講，希望高端能夠來公開這個……"],["王委員鴻薇：不要怕高端啦，這家公司……"],["陳院長建仁：沒有怕它！"],["王委員鴻薇：為什麼要讓它予取予求？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有讓它予取予求！"],["王委員鴻薇：我現在換另外一個題目……"],["陳院長建仁：你如果這樣講，你如果這樣兇，我就不同意了！我沒有給它予取予求！"],["王委員鴻薇：我不需要你同意啊！院長。","好，我現在另外要請教一下法務部長，請將時間暫停一下，然後薛部長和金管會主委可以先請回，謝謝，也不好意思讓你們罰站。","法務部長，我想請教一下，之前我們的行政院副院長──鄭文燦副院長，有涉及他、影射他的帶女人開房間的影片外流，我們也在司法及法制委員會裡面討論過，我想請問這個案子結案了嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：應該還沒有，因為在檢察機關偵查中。"],["王委員鴻薇：是，它是偵查中案件，對不對？"],["蔡部長清祥：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是呢，鄭文燦的那個影片，後來刑事局有整個的檢驗結果說是不是深偽製作，對不對？有沒有公布？"],["蔡部長清祥：還包括調查局也有做鑑定，所以他們二個偵查單位也是有把成果報到地檢署。"],["王委員鴻薇：都公布了，因為那時候也對我們公布說有二個系統，一個61%說可能有深偽，一個說沒有深偽製作，所以它說不能確定有深偽製作的可能，是用這樣的一個話，當然我們很多翻譯大白話就代表它不是偽造的。但是無論如何，鄭文燦影片的檢驗結果是公布了，剛才部長也說這是偵查中案件。同樣的，今天我們立委羅致政委員涉及性愛的影片，事實上調查局現在已經完成了檢驗，可是地檢署、調查局說這是偵查中案件，不能公布，為什麼同樣一件事，鄭文燦的要公布，然後羅致政的不公布？這是什麼標準？"],["蔡部長清祥：都沒有公布，都沒有正式的對外公布……"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，你失憶了！"],["蔡部長清祥：如果在檢察官的偵查當中，檢察官會受到偵查不公開原則……"],["王委員鴻薇：部長失憶了嗎？鄭文燦那個公布了啦！鄭文燦那個已經公布了。"],["蔡部長清祥：我不曉得是哪一個單位公布的，但是檢察機關絕對沒有公布。"],["王委員鴻薇：鄭文燦自己都公布了，他自己都公布了，所以我要講的是……"],["蔡部長清祥：我不曉得他怎麼得來的訊息。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我一再講說，國家有國家的制度，如果鄭文燦的影片也是偵查中案件，但他可以公布，為什麼羅致政的影片要說是偵查中案件不公開，這個就有隱瞞的問題，所以我們非常擔心這個影片是不是不能公布，怕影響羅致政的選情啦，但是我還是很希望不要因為任何一個候選人，而去破壞了我們整個國家的制度，好不好？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們會遵守偵查不公開的原則。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝王委員。","接下來請蔡委員適應質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":86,"meet_id":"臨時會院會-10-8-1-1","speakers":["游錫堃","邱顯智","邱臣遠","曾銘宗","林俊憲","賴士葆","邱泰源","王鴻薇","蔡適應","吳斯懷","洪申翰","游毓蘭","莊瑞雄","李德維","吳玉琴","林為洲"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-01-09"],"gazette_id":"1130301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130301_00002","1130301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n行政院院長提出「是否公布高端合約？是否圖利廠商及危害全民健康權益？」等相關事宜專案報\n告並備質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1130301_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.4734687500000003,"end":4.705343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.0934687499999995,"end":7.388468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.69221875,"end":8.316593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.92409375,"end":10.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11.47221875,"end":12.113468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.484718750000003,"end":14.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15.353468750000001,"end":16.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.606593750000002,"end":16.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.53034375,"end":18.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.35284375,"end":19.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21.91784375,"end":22.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.89659375,"end":23.622218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.43159375,"end":32.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":29.12346875,"end":29.562218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.95409375,"end":34.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.28721875,"end":40.142843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.463468750000004,"end":41.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.76284375,"end":44.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":45.03659375,"end":52.562843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":53.305343750000006,"end":55.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.19971875,"end":55.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":56.12346875,"end":59.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":60.00471875,"end":63.329093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.57409375,"end":66.33284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":65.38784375,"end":66.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.56909375000001,"end":67.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.34534375,"end":70.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":70.39971875,"end":72.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.97346875000001,"end":71.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.07034375,"end":72.45846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.36971875,"end":83.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.66346875,"end":109.56659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.37096875,"end":93.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.37034375,"end":96.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":96.38721875,"end":101.93909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":102.88409375,"end":104.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":108.80721875,"end":111.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.60846875,"end":119.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":114.37596875000001,"end":114.42659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":114.59534375000001,"end":124.06221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.09659375000001,"end":121.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.71659375,"end":122.39159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.50534375000001,"end":126.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.45409375000001,"end":134.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.38971875000001,"end":152.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":145.12221875,"end":145.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.96596875,"end":148.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.96909375,"end":161.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":160.30971875,"end":161.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.62596875,"end":162.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.55409375000002,"end":164.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":162.58784375000002,"end":163.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.83221875,"end":166.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.97534375,"end":168.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.15221875,"end":175.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.64909375000002,"end":180.35721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.67784375000002,"end":185.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.20034375,"end":187.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.86659375000002,"end":190.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.75221875000003,"end":191.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.62971875000002,"end":192.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.92909375000002,"end":194.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.19471875000002,"end":196.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":197.35034375,"end":202.96971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.56909375,"end":204.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":203.74596875,"end":207.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.93534375000002,"end":212.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":210.59721875000002,"end":216.16596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.48721875,"end":213.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.51221875000002,"end":221.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.20721875,"end":225.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.70909375000002,"end":225.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.97034375,"end":227.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.18096875,"end":233.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.27284375000002,"end":235.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.94346875000002,"end":238.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.03159375,"end":243.89159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.90846875000003,"end":250.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":249.57846875,"end":256.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.76721875000004,"end":258.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.94846875,"end":262.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":260.95221875000004,"end":271.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.96409375,"end":267.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.72284375000004,"end":274.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.43971875,"end":278.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.00909375000003,"end":276.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.10971875,"end":282.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.67034375000003,"end":294.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":286.53471875,"end":288.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":291.47909375,"end":293.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.63471875000005,"end":298.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.60034375000004,"end":300.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":300.08534375,"end":303.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.62096875000003,"end":311.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.88096875,"end":316.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.58909375,"end":326.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.46534375000005,"end":328.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.39721875000004,"end":334.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.64096875,"end":339.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.40846875,"end":343.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.67346875000004,"end":344.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.95159375000003,"end":352.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.12784375,"end":367.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.55096875000004,"end":373.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.69409375000004,"end":374.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.82471875000005,"end":416.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.70846875,"end":418.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.56471875000005,"end":422.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.23909375000005,"end":429.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.70221875000004,"end":437.51534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.68409375000005,"end":441.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.78471875,"end":447.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.88096875,"end":448.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.37034375,"end":447.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.26471875000004,"end":449.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.19284375,"end":461.17409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.46096875,"end":467.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.80221875,"end":466.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.36721875,"end":480.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.44096875,"end":486.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.99284375,"end":488.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.16971875,"end":500.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.89784375000005,"end":502.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.56846875,"end":503.68221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.48784375,"end":509.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.56721875000005,"end":517.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.80659375,"end":518.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.29159375,"end":521.2490937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.6709687499999,"end":525.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.10909375,"end":527.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.4209687499999,"end":531.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.40346875,"end":533.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.95596875,"end":535.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.93034375,"end":546.0890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.46034375,"end":557.9184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.52596875,"end":559.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.1797187500001,"end":564.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.03971875,"end":570.1865937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.50721875,"end":572.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.49846875,"end":579.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.3159687500001,"end":579.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":580.04159375,"end":584.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":584.2265937500001,"end":585.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":585.84659375,"end":585.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.94784375,"end":585.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":585.96471875,"end":585.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.43721875,"end":588.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":588.3103437500001,"end":589.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.2722187500001,"end":589.8459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.5378437500001,"end":592.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.11096875,"end":595.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.8659687500001,"end":602.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.4640937500001,"end":605.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.7253437500001,"end":611.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.85096875,"end":614.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.93909375,"end":625.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.2790937500001,"end":630.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":631.1897187500001,"end":632.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.26971875,"end":633.7547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.46346875,"end":638.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.15909375,"end":641.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.4497187500001,"end":644.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.2678437500001,"end":648.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":645.17909375,"end":646.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":646.90034375,"end":659.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.0547187500001,"end":660.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":659.96159375,"end":663.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":661.0078437500001,"end":662.4422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":662.88096875,"end":664.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.46721875,"end":668.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":669.05721875,"end":670.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":670.9978437500001,"end":674.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":675.0478437500001,"end":691.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":691.85534375,"end":700.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":700.84971875,"end":703.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":704.12346875,"end":704.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":705.0178437500001,"end":707.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.59971875,"end":711.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":708.3759687500001,"end":709.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":710.87346875,"end":712.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.6115937500001,"end":714.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":713.5903437500001,"end":713.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":714.5522187500001,"end":719.7834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":719.3784687500001,"end":721.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":720.27284375,"end":720.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":721.25159375,"end":730.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.09534375,"end":725.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":729.80721875,"end":732.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":730.7353437500001,"end":751.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":746.17596875,"end":749.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":749.80409375,"end":750.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":751.1203437500001,"end":757.0434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":755.2547187499999,"end":763.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":757.38096875,"end":759.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":762.6797187500001,"end":765.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":764.2490937500002,"end":765.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":765.81846875,"end":769.7334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":767.65784375,"end":772.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":771.33659375,"end":771.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":773.0747187500001,"end":786.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":773.2434687500001,"end":774.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":787.0134687500001,"end":788.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":793.0209687500001,"end":811.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":812.68034375,"end":815.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":813.6928437500001,"end":814.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":815.36346875,"end":817.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":817.5403437500001,"end":817.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":818.3672187500001,"end":819.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":819.6328437500001,"end":821.4890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":821.5734687500001,"end":827.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":827.9015937500001,"end":828.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":829.43721875,"end":831.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.54659375,"end":833.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":833.23409375,"end":834.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.9384687500001,"end":836.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":836.2547187500002,"end":839.0053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":839.3428437500002,"end":861.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":861.4153437500001,"end":869.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":869.3972187500001,"end":870.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":870.4097187500001,"end":872.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":872.3334687500001,"end":874.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":875.42159375,"end":879.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":879.6909687500001,"end":880.5009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":880.60221875,"end":884.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":884.78721875,"end":886.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":887.20034375,"end":887.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":888.6684687500001,"end":889.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":891.03096875,"end":891.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":891.2165937500001,"end":892.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":891.28409375,"end":891.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":893.24159375,"end":899.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":896.3803437500001,"end":898.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":900.0928437500002,"end":902.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":900.1772187500001,"end":903.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":904.10909375,"end":905.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":904.49721875,"end":908.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":906.9440937500001,"end":908.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":908.8003437500001,"end":910.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":910.7578437500001,"end":912.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":910.7747187500001,"end":913.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":913.2890937500001,"end":916.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":916.84971875,"end":930.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":958.24409375,"end":958.64909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.496,"end":3.756,"text":"王院長"},{"start":28.462,"end":55.355,"text":"院長先請教剛才您回答邱太元委員的時候您有特別提到那兩個市長就是疫情的時間沒有做好請問一下你所指的兩位市長是指哪兩位當然就是臺北市的市長跟新北市的市長在當時萬華地區產生了這一些老人茶室產生的傷害的情況你認為萬華是破口嗎"},{"start":56.192,"end":56.773,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":73.387,"end":73.787,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":92.383,"end":92.943,"text":"我是講事實,我會回答嗎?"},{"start":112.153,"end":113.494,"text":"主席 我可不可以質詢 可以嗎 來"},{"start":127.683,"end":151.975,"text":"因為這個問題蠻重要因為剛才我也有注意到我們賴世保委員也特別提到了也就是高端的合約能不能公開那麼因為我們現在的說法是因為這是廠商要求那麼廠商沒有同意那可能包含院長跟我們那個王必勝署長可能講法不一樣說要股東會董事會好不管"},{"start":153.035,"end":163.083,"text":"我們政府的說法是因為這是要看高端就是廠商願不願意同意但是在110年5月30號"},{"start":169.187,"end":195.267,"text":"因為高端是上匯公司他發表重訊提到說有關於限制條款是依採購機關要求合約其他細節不予公開剛才賴世寶委員有特別問到這件事情對不對那薛部長的回答是說他要怎麼講他也沒有問過我們政府所以部長我請問他這個說法是正確的還是錯誤的"},{"start":197.386,"end":198.987,"text":"所以部長很明確的告訴我們這個重訊的訊息是錯誤的是不是"},{"start":223.131,"end":226.454,"text":"請教因為我剛特別提到他的重訓時間是民國110年5月30號已經長達兩年半這樣錯誤的訊息請問一下"},{"start":239.207,"end":255.666,"text":"我們的衛福部是否曾經要求他更動：或者曾經去告他說你這個根本是錯誤的訊息衛福部有沒有做這些事我們在那個之後就發文給這個高端請他來公開合約"},{"start":256.867,"end":257.888,"text":"跟重訊的發布無關"},{"start":279.158,"end":294.175,"text":"既然這個訊息是錯誤的,為什麼衛福部在這麼長的時間裡面沒有去告高端?你都去告立委了,你為什麼不告高端?不敢告嗎?"},{"start":298.9,"end":315.607,"text":"這個就是錯誤訊息啊他錯誤訊息有主管機關去處理無所謂好來來來為什麼把金管會主委找來了所以你把你不敢告高端現在請那個主管機關那請問一下我們金管會主委這樣錯誤訊息我們有去處罰他嗎有去處分他嗎"},{"start":316.596,"end":321.417,"text":"那所以我今天在這個質詢裡面衛福部長說這個是錯誤的但是衛福部不去告他金管會會處理嗎當時並沒有特別人指出當時所以貴買中心對我現在直接說那現在金管會會立刻去處理嗎讓證交所去罰他"},{"start":345.967,"end":346.127,"text":"為什麼要請您上來?"},{"start":373.715,"end":398.528,"text":"我就認為在高端的合約已經引起這麼嚴重的爭議那麼大家舉國都在覺得說為什麼不公開連賴清德現在我們的副總統我們的民進黨的總統候選人都說他覺得應該公開啊可是現在呢我們整個行政院把賴副總統的話當成空氣一樣他現在講完今天已經第10天了"},{"start":399.548,"end":400.048,"text":"王鴻薇議員王鴻薇議員"},{"start":423.303,"end":424.604,"text":"王委員 你要不要去告"},{"start":449.533,"end":477.185,"text":"這個不是法務部的職責對於有沒有涉及刑事責任是由檢調機關他們來負責所以法務部是負責行政業務那過去我知道的檢查機關也曾經調查過相關的案件有63件之多報告我都看到了說都查無不法等等所以我現在有新的事證我現在有新的事證那麼我也會也一樣請那個"},{"start":478.805,"end":502.731,"text":"地檢署來查偵辦我真的覺得很奇怪我們政府為什麼對高端這樣的莫可奈何到底在怕高端什麼所以我剛剛講我們薛淵源部長都敢告立委為什麼不告高端我是你我立刻告高端亂講話怎麼說是我不讓你公開明明是你高端說不能公開好再來看一下看一下時間"},{"start":505.558,"end":527.213,"text":"高端昨天也又發布重訊 裡面畢仁在下我 也在裡面他說他要提告我 提告我跟另外三位候選人說談到有股東名冊的問題我時間有限 我今天就不請經濟部長上來 我覺得真的笑死人"},{"start":528.447,"end":544.58,"text":"你們不要天天怕高端高端只會爛數股東名冊去查一下銀行法銀行法裡面210條清清楚楚的告訴你股東名冊可以怎麼取得我想搞不好蔡部長是清楚的"},{"start":545.6,"end":569.166,"text":"所以對於高端這樣不敢公開只會濫訴的一家公司然後呢我們對他予取予求所以我就在想你高端到底是何方神聖那我想請問一下我們陳部長部長你當時在2016年的時候您有跟蔡英文總統搭檔那時候你是副總統候選人"},{"start":570.586,"end":592.16,"text":"您有收受過高端或高端股東或高端他們之前的前公司前身等等的政治獻金嗎有嗎沒有啊我根本我只是參加高端的臨床實驗而已你沒有嘛對不對沒有我在這邊也幫你背書我查過了您沒有但是啊來看一下我剛才講"},{"start":596.892,"end":618.388,"text":"高端的股東名冊並不難取得根據相關的法律是可以取得這個是之前侯漢廷議員所公布的相關的高端股東的捐款這個大概就是所有政治人物所以我剛才說我幫陳建仁院長也背書我們查過了"},{"start":622.911,"end":642.778,"text":"當時2016年您參加副總統是候選人那一次你們沒有接受過高端的任何的政治獻金但是在2020年蔡英文總統賴清德副總統就有接受到高端股東的政治捐獻可以看看這裡面洋洋灑灑"},{"start":644.618,"end":667.318,"text":"這裡面包含縣市長 包含立法委員 包含議員高端股東有4萬多人你這4萬多人你再怎麼去找還是找到有一些願意做政治獻金的人你這樣單挑高端股東這樣來講我覺得是不公平這是剛才部長跟你搖耳朵我要講的是我不解的是為什麼今天我們都召開臨時會了"},{"start":669.119,"end":690.892,"text":"召開臨時會是正確的雖然馬上過幾天確實就有大選但是在立法院召開臨時會這本來就是一個民主國家民主政治的程序然後我們所有的立法委員比如像邱太元委員他覺得他非常珍惜今天的質詢我看了也非常感動"},{"start":691.812,"end":692.372,"text":"我可以回答嗎?"},{"start":712.657,"end":712.797,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":729.771,"end":731.993,"text":"政府誠信很重要但是政府的威信也很重要我剛才特別提"},{"start":756.032,"end":772.649,"text":"所以政府的微信我們有跟高端講我跟高端講希望高端能夠來公開沒有怕高端啦這家公司沒有怕他為什麼要讓他予取予求沒有讓他予取予求你如果這樣講我就你如果這樣兇我就不同意了"},{"start":773.029,"end":773.129,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":794.033,"end":809.11,"text":"法務部長我想請教一下在之前我們的行政院副院長鄭文燦副院長他有涉及他影射他的帶女人開房間的影片外流我們也在司法法治委員會裡面討論過我想請問這個案子結案了嗎"},{"start":813.168,"end":838.867,"text":"應該還沒有 因為在檢察機關偵查中是 他是偵查中案件 對不對對那但是呢鄭文燦那個影片後來刑事局他有他的整個的檢驗結果說是不是身為製作 對不對有沒有公布還包括調查局也有他做鑑定所以他們兩個偵查單位他們也是把成果有報到地檢署"},{"start":839.697,"end":839.777,"text":"同樣的"},{"start":869.48,"end":891.771,"text":"今天我們立委羅智政委員他的涉及性愛影片現在事實上調查局已經完成了檢驗可是呢地檢署調查局說這是偵查中案件不能公布那為什麼同樣鄭文燦要公布然後羅智政不公布這是什麼標準"},{"start":893.291,"end":901.427,"text":"都沒有公布,都沒有正式的對外公布,如果在檢察官的偵查當中,檢察官他會受到偵查不公開的檢查"},{"start":904.321,"end":928.963,"text":"鄭文燦自己都公布了他自己都公布了所以我要講的是所以我一直在講說國家有國家的制度所以如果今天鄭文燦的影片他也是偵查中案件他可以公布為什麼羅志政的影片要以說偵查中案件不公開那這個就有隱瞞的問題"},{"start":939.332,"end":939.873,"text":"王鴻薇"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}