{"error":false,"id":["149113"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149113,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149113","日期":"2024-02-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第1次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第1次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-02-20T14:30:35+08:00","結束時間":"2024-02-20T14:46:17+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:42","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1642863e6d7b33d49895c0b83a3fc809d783c41c18e7293cf8ba9b0039caa7a63bf7720ea16dc3525ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"14:30:35 - 14:46:17","會議時間":"2024-02-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第1次會議（事由：行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告並備質詢）","gazette":{"lineno":16,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（14時30分）謝謝院長，有請陳建仁院長。我今天聚焦在食安，相關的部會就請自動上備詢台，謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：吳委員，恭喜連任。"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝大仁哥、謝謝院長。新屆期也是新會期，立法委員是人民一票一票選出來的，思瑤非常珍惜北投天母的選民給我再次連任的機會，但是我們也希望新的立法院，議場就是議場，議場不是秀場。吳思瑤會持續督促我自己、要求我自己實事求是、專業問政。同樣的，雖然您是看守內閣，但是還是要為所當為，該做的事情就勇敢去做。我們在這裡一起期勉，我也期勉我們內閣所有團隊，行政立法聯手，我們強強聯手，福國利民。","今天站在這裡，如果不是昨天朝野協商，韓院長非常辛苦喔！努力的調和鼎鼐，但如果不是民眾黨的黨鞭非常帥氣地甩頭走人，如果不是民眾黨刻意在昨天讓協商破局，今天right now、right here，我們已經在進行食安報告了。無論如何，這是非常可惜的事情，我們沒有辦法在第一時間讓國人關心的食安問題即刻來直球對決、讓真相說話。我對於在野黨這樣的作為還是高度地表達遺憾，但是今天按照議程，立法院就是一個按部就班的地方，按照議程安排施政總質詢，雖然沒有辦法優先讓食安專報上路，但是就立法委員的職責，我們依舊可以利用施政總質詢的珍貴機會就食安議題來提出詢答。所以我今天在這裡，我希望朝野立委是真心關心食安，今天也安排了各黨派的委員來質詢，我也希望吳思瑤不是唯一一個站在這裡關心食安的立法委員。","食安就是心安！民以食為天，所以人民對於食安的議題零容忍，行政部門當然，關乎的stakeholders包括政府的公信力、產業的利益以及消費者的權益。No one is outsider.人人都是局內人，所以我想先讓您回答一個問題。在野黨說你們很想閃避，你們根本不想來報告食安專報，是這樣嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：不是，完全不是，我已經說過很多次，我們很樂意來大院做有關食安的報告。"],["吳委員思瑤：真心想要釐清事實的，莫過於我們行政單位。"],["陳院長建仁：確實是這樣。"],["吳委員思瑤：我記得王美花部長一直在說，最想要澄清事實的就是台糖，因為它受傷最深。在這裡，我利用一點點小小的時間跟我們韓院長來報告。從國民黨的臨時會之亂，他們疏忽了有違憲之虞，再到這兩天民眾黨的加開院會之亂，院長真的很難為，您辛苦了，但是在這個過程當中，我們看到民主進步黨促成食安專報努力到最後1分鐘。昨天韓院長主持的第二次協商破局了，非常可惜，否則今天在這裡就是食安專報。但是因為在野黨民眾黨提出來的，他們要求用加掛、加開院會的方式，所以今天早上在院長主持的院會裡頭他們提案列入討論事項，民進黨都支持，然後依程序要逕付二讀，逕付二讀之後就是要交付協商，然後就面臨有1個月的協商空窗冷凍期。民主進步黨促成食安專報努力到最後1分鐘，也就是今天上午正式在院會當中對韓院長提出一個正式的要求和提案，請韓院長能夠儘速召開朝野協商，我們希望最快最快2月23日（星期五）可以讓食安專報上路，所以在這裡也懇請韓院長，就剩下短短的幾天時間，懇請您儘速召開協商，我也期待您主持的第三次協商不會再破局。我們希望週五能夠讓國人關心的食安報告在這裡提出，大家一起來讓真相水落石出，這也是我對於韓院長的請求。","這一次我先聚焦於西布特羅事件，有幾個關鍵數字，第一個關鍵數字是788比1，我蒐集的是到2月16日，788盒零檢出是不是數字又往上攀升了？"],["陳院長建仁：對，現在是877件。"],["吳委員思瑤：877件，所以877件零檢出是中央和地方政府、民間和私人公司的檢驗單位共同檢測，877件零檢出，所以是877比1，臺中市政府這一盒天選之肉到底哪裡來啊？院長？"],["陳院長建仁：確實像委員所講的一樣，實際上在這一次的西布特羅的檢驗當中，我們發現除了臺中市所檢驗的這一盒肉的樣本以外，沒有一個地方檢出陽性。換句話說，從豬隻飼養、屠宰、分割、分切到市場，所有的供應鏈統統沒有檢出西布特羅，西布特羅只有在單一的實驗室、單一的樣本檢驗出來，所以這實在是值得臺中市政府完全的給所有人民做一個交代，為什麼天選之肉在這個地方會檢驗出來。","就我們所瞭解，我們有請財政部去查所有西布特羅進口的情況，只有……"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝院長，先跟您打斷，換言之，天選之肉就是在臺中市政府的這一盒。"],["陳院長建仁：確實。"],["吳委員思瑤：到底它從哪裡來，最應該說清楚、也最有能力說清楚的，應當是臺中市政府的盧秀燕市長。第二個關鍵數字，剛剛講肉，現在講西布特羅這個化學用藥，它不是動物用藥，而是化學用藥，只提供實驗室，且不能夠在臺灣製造、販售，也不能夠使用，唯獨在實驗室，因為它是標準品。西布特羅化學用藥兩年全臺灣只進口789毫克，您是科學家，789毫克到底是怎麼樣的概念？"],["陳院長建仁：1CC的水就是1克，所以很少、很少。"],["吳委員思瑤：大概1滴水？"],["陳院長建仁：對，1CC。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以這個關鍵字很重要，兩年來只進口了789毫克，而且是提供給24家檢驗室，包括12家地方政府衛生局及12家民間檢測單位，所以我們可以很清楚地從這個關鍵數字知道並沒有流到市場。"],["陳院長建仁：完全沒有。"],["吳委員思瑤：沒有流到任何的民間企業，台糖也沒有，就是只有24間實驗單位，當然包括也被驗證確實有下單購買西布特羅的臺中市政府衛生局，這是第二個關鍵數字。","再來是台糖安心豚事件，無論如何讓真相大白，我們到目前為止幾乎可以推測，也幾乎可以確信，它不是系統性事件，而是單一檢體的個案，這已經非常清楚。但是我們的下一個步驟是什麼？step two就是我們無論如何努力再努力，讓它從通案聚焦在非通案是個案，下一步就是讓它不能成為懸案，我們一定要讓它結案。"],["陳院長建仁：確實。"],["吳委員思瑤：關於結案的部分，我知道食安辦也召開了專家會議要進行，院長可不可以在這裡告訴我們，因為大家都很關心，禮拜五順利的話可能在這裡也有專案報告，委員都會問，你們有信心多久可以讓它結案？"],["陳院長建仁：好，我們在2月21日的時候會召開專家委員會，專家委員會分成兩組，一組就是要去瞭解這個豬隻的飼養跟豬隻的屠宰部分；第二個部分就是樣品的採檢，還有樣品檢驗這個步驟的部分。我們這一個專家委員會在2月21號開會，實際上我們食藥署還有農業部已經有做所謂的全面相關視察。所以我們希望在3月份的時候，一定要有很好的結果，我們儘快地要求要結案……"],["吳委員思瑤：所以就是兩週左右的時間？"],["陳院長建仁：對。實際上這是滿單純的個案，就像我們剛才講的，這是單一檢體的個案……"],["吳委員思瑤：單一檢體的事情。"],["陳院長建仁：而且只有在一個實驗室，而這個實驗室剛好有西布特羅，就是這樣。"],["吳委員思瑤：好。所以院長您的說法，我們也期待，我們就完全讓專業說話……"],["陳院長建仁：是！"],["吳委員思瑤：讓這些專業人士去研判，不要有政治力，不要有任何的操弄。我們非常期待在兩週、3月初，就能夠獲得一個真相大白的結案，而不是繼續成為懸案，我們繼續努力。","在這個個案當中，我又發現了一個關鍵數字，就是我看見台糖居然可以很快速地去全部的溯源、精準溯源，同批生產的安心豚有2,730包，重達819公斤，而快速地下架回收是274包，把這個關鍵數字特別秀出來是我要肯定台糖，如果不是我們能夠有食安五環做到精準溯源，是沒有辦法連2,730到個位數，那個幾包肉都算得清清楚楚。"],["陳院長建仁：確實。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以還好台糖因為是國營事業，也還好它有足夠的專業、有足夠的能力，也有足夠的財力，不計成本檢驗再檢驗。但正因為剛好是發生在國營事業，如果這樣一個檢測、單一事件是發生在任何一個民間的企業，哇！這是承受不了的，挺不住。"],["陳院長建仁：嗯。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以我們在這裡都希望未來這樣的事件都一定要嚴謹再嚴謹。我們肯定台糖能夠做到精準溯源，看見台糖的用心跟專業，我們也希望可以洗清台糖一些不應當被承載的污名，謝謝美花部長。","為什麼可以做到精準溯源？因為蔡政府上臺之後我們推出了食安五環，跨部會喔！從前端的上游管控，源頭控管、重建生產管理、加強查緝、加重惡質黑心廠商的責任到全民監督食安，跨多少部會啊？農業部、衛福部……"],["陳院長建仁：經濟部……"],["吳委員思瑤：經濟部……"],["陳代理部長駿季：環境部。"],["吳委員思瑤：環境部、教育部、法務部、內政部，財政部也有，所以這是一個前所未有，我們最高規格的要求─食安五環。也因為食安五環的帶動，我作為立法委員，剛好就是這8年，我看見了我們建組織、修法案、增預算。我們新設了毒物管理機構，現在是環境部化學物質管理署，有一個新的專業機構；修法案，我們修了兩個法，最重要當然是食品安全衛生管理法，另外制定了農田水利法、有機農業促進法，還有本席提案，也非常關心的食農教育法，現在還有植物診療師法的草案正在研議中；第三，增預算，我去調閱了數字，我們在2016年從馬英九任內接到政權的時候，每一年的食安預算是6.83億，到今年（2024年）的預算，我們食安總投入的國家預算是16.3億，是馬英九時期食安預算的2.3倍，當中還包括前瞻基礎建設裡頭的食安預算。我們8年來，蔡政府投入了92.5億，預算成長了2.3倍，正因為我們做了這麼多，今天在野黨要求的食安專報，要來檢視8年的成效，我們就好好來檢視，我們8年有沒有做得更好？做得好，我們肯定，做不好，當然要改進。","因為有食安五環，因為有我們的努力，這個是我們食安辦整理出來的重大食安事件當中的系統性食安事件，我也彙總出來，如果我有做錯的部分，您也可以糾正。馬政府時期大型的系統性食安事件有毒奶粉事件、塑化劑事件、毒澱粉，還有2013年、2014年的黑心油事件，大家記憶猶新，到2015年的農藥DDT事件七大件，民進黨執政我們還是要做得更好，有兩件。換言之，七比二，我們希望零案件、零容忍，但是這是一個事實，不容來抹滅大家的努力。我們來看資訊公開透明，從豬肉儀表板看到校園的豬肉儀表板，校園豬肉儀表板是吳思瑤催生的，到現在我們擔心核食的進口，在海水、漁獲跟食品也建置了核安會的核食、福食儀表板，這都是前所未有的。我要提醒您喔！食安就是心安，讓國人安心，除了我們在做的流向調查、專家調查跟加強檢測，對於地方政府，幫他們忙、協助他們建構更好的檢測SOP，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我們會這樣來做，謝謝委員。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，這部分如果我希望還有食安的專報，我們可以更進一步地來釐清，也再次勞煩韓院長您這兩天趕快來主持協商，謝謝，辛苦了，大家加油。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員思瑤的質詢，謝謝。","接下來我們請傅委員崐萁。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-1","speakers":["韓國瑜","黃國昌","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","許智傑","林思銘"],"page_start":22,"meetingDate":["2024-02-20"],"gazette_id":"1130401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130401_00003","1130401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第 11 屆第 1 會期第 1 次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告並備質詢─ 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now right here我們已經在進行食安報告了"},{"start":80.541,"end":95.49,"text":"無論如何這是非常可惜的事情我們沒有辦法第一時間讓國人關心的食安問題即刻的來直球對決讓真相說話我對於在野黨這樣的作為我還是高度的表達遺憾"},{"start":97.213,"end":119.579,"text":"但是今天按照議程立法院就是一個按部就班的地方按照議程安排施政總質詢雖然沒有辦法優先讓施安專報上路但是就立法委員的職責我們依舊可以利用施政總質詢的珍貴機會就施安議題來提出詢答"},{"start":120.439,"end":143.36,"text":"所以我今天在這裡我希望朝野的立委是真心關心食安今天也安排了各黨派的委員來質詢我也希望吳思瑤不是唯一一個站在這裡關心食安的立法委員好下一頁食安就是心安民以食為天"},{"start":144.724,"end":169.356,"text":"所以人民對於食安的議題零容忍行政部門當然關乎的stakeholders政府的公信力產業的利益以及消費者的權益no one is outsider人人都是局內人所以說我想先讓您回答一個問題喔在野黨說你們很想閃避你們根本不想來報告食安專報是這樣嗎"},{"start":171.437,"end":177.942,"text":"我記得王美花部長一直在說最想要澄清事實的就是台糖啊因為她受傷最深好下一頁在這裡我一定有一點點小小的時間跟我們韓院長來報告"},{"start":199.677,"end":225.349,"text":"從國民黨的臨時會之亂他們疏忽了有違憲之餘再到這兩天民眾黨的加開院會之亂院長真的很難為您辛苦了但是在這個過程當中我們看到民主進步黨促成時安專報努力到最後一分鐘昨天韓院長主持的第二次協商破局了非常可惜否則今天就是時安專報在這裡"},{"start":226.974,"end":252.104,"text":"但是呢因為在野黨民眾黨提出來的他們要求用加掛加開院會的方式所以今天早上在院長主持的院會裡頭他們提案列入討論事項民進黨都支持然後依程序要記覆二讀記覆二讀之後就是要交付協商然後呢就面臨有一個月的協商空窗冷凍期"},{"start":253.308,"end":280.491,"text":"民主進步黨促成時安專報努力到最後一分鐘也就是今天上午正式的在院會當中對韓院長提出一個正式的要求跟提案請韓院長能夠儘速召開朝野協商我們希望最快最快就是週五2月23號讓時安專報可以上路所以在這裡也懇請韓院長就剩下短短的幾天時間"},{"start":281.852,"end":284.653,"text":"這一次我先聚焦於西普特羅事件有幾個關鍵數字"},{"start":307.901,"end":318.498,"text":"第一個關鍵數字就是788比1我收集的是到2月16號這個788和0減出是不是數字又往上攀升了對現在是877件877件"},{"start":325.933,"end":348.478,"text":"877件所以877件零檢出這是中央跟地方政府民間跟私人公司的這個檢驗單位共同檢測就是877件零檢出所以877比1那到底臺中市政府這一盒天選之肉哪裡來啊院長"},{"start":349.338,"end":349.898,"text":"主席"},{"start":368.765,"end":370.906,"text":"施政方針及施政報告"},{"start":387.892,"end":388.132,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":417.213,"end":437.504,"text":"好下一頁第二個關鍵數字就是剛剛講肉現在講這個西布特羅這一個化學用藥他不是動物用藥喔他是化學用藥他只提供實驗室他不能夠在台灣製造販售也不能夠去使用唯獨在實驗室因為他是標準品"},{"start":438.217,"end":438.617,"text":"一CC的水就是一克"},{"start":456.354,"end":476.414,"text":"所以很少很少大概一滴水一CC所以說兩年來這個關鍵字很重要只進口了789毫克而且是提供給24家檢驗室包括12家地方政府的衛生局12家市民間的檢測單位那所以我們可以很清楚的從這個關鍵數字知道"},{"start":479.172,"end":479.673,"text":"好這是第二個關鍵數字好下一個"},{"start":498.291,"end":525.346,"text":"台長安心團事件無論如何讓真相大白我們幾乎到目前為止可以來推測也幾乎可以來確信啦它就是沒有集體它就是沒有這個系統性它不是系統性的事件而是單一簡體的個案這已經非常清楚但是我們的下一個步驟是什麼Step 2就是我們無論如何努力再努力讓它"},{"start":527.789,"end":539.865,"text":"從通案聚焦在非通案是個案但是下一步就是讓它不能成為懸案我們一定要讓它結案結案的部分我知道我們食安辦也召開了專家會議要進行"},{"start":541.767,"end":569.917,"text":"院長可不可以在這裡告訴我們大家都很關心禮拜五可能順利的話也有專案報告在這裡委員都會問你們有信心多久可以讓他結案我們在2月21號的時候會召開專家委員會那專家委員會分成兩組一組呢就是要去了解這個豬隻的飼養跟豬隻的屠宰的部分那第二個部分呢就是樣品的採檢還有樣品的檢驗的這個步驟的部分"},{"start":570.077,"end":570.097,"text":"吳思瑤議員"},{"start":585.194,"end":587.135,"text":"實際上這是蠻單純的個案就像我們剛才講的這是單一簡體的個案而且只有在一個實驗室這個實驗室剛好有西部特種"},{"start":601.966,"end":623.008,"text":"所以院長您的說法我們也期待我們就完全讓專業說話讓這些專業人士去研判不要有政治力不要有任何的操弄我們非常期待兩週三月初就能夠獲得一個真相大白的結案而不是繼續成為懸案我們繼續努力好下一頁"},{"start":623.769,"end":651.853,"text":"那在這個個案當中我又發現了一個關鍵數字就是我看見台糖居然可以很快速的去全部的溯源精準溯源同批生產的安心豬有2730包重達819公斤而快速的下架回收是274包我要把這個關鍵數字特別秀出來是我要肯定台糖啊"},{"start":652.645,"end":674.047,"text":"如果不是我們能夠有十安五環做到精準溯源是沒有辦法連2730到個位數那個幾包肉都算得清清楚楚所以還好臺商因為是國營事業也還好他有足夠的專業有足夠的能力也有足夠的財力不計成本檢驗再檢驗"},{"start":675.967,"end":675.987,"text":"哇!"},{"start":686.51,"end":689.531,"text":"為什麼可以做到精準溯源因為蔡政府上台之後我們推出了食安五環"},{"start":716.943,"end":741.48,"text":"跨部會喔從前端的上游管控、源頭控管、重建生產管理、加強查緝、加重惡質黑心廠商的責任到全民監督食安跨多少部會啊?農業部、衛福部、經濟部、環境部、教育部、法務部、內政部、財政部也有"},{"start":742.776,"end":765.177,"text":"所以這是一個前所未有我們最高規格的要求十案五環下一頁也因為十案五環的帶動我作為立法委員剛好就是這8年我看見了我們建組織修法案增預算我們新設了毒物管理機構現在是環境部的化學物質管理署有一個新的專業機構修法案我們修了兩個法"},{"start":766.238,"end":781.967,"text":"最重要當然是食品安全衛生管理法我們另外制定了農田水利法有機農業促進法還有本席提案也非常關切的食農教育法現在還有植物診療施法的草案正在演繹中第三增預算我去調閱了數字我們2016年從馬英九任內"},{"start":786.65,"end":811.962,"text":"接到政權的時候每一年的食安預算是6.83億到今年2024年的預算我們的食安總投入的國家預算是16.3是馬英九時期的食安預算的2.3倍這當中還包括我們的前瞻基礎建設裡頭的食安預算我們8年來蔡政府投入了92.5億"},{"start":814.785,"end":815.386,"text":"預算成長2.3倍"},{"start":831.957,"end":837.12,"text":"因為有食安五環因為有我們的努力這個是我們食安辦整理出來的"},{"start":862.397,"end":879.103,"text":"民進黨執政我們還是要做得更好有兩件換言之7比2我們希望零案件零容忍但是這是一個事實不容來抹滅大家的努力下一頁再下一頁"},{"start":880.043,"end":902.22,"text":"我們來看資訊公開透明從豬肉儀錶板到校園的豬肉儀錶板是吳思瑤催生的到現在我們擔心核食的進口在海水漁獲跟食品也建置了河安會的核食服食儀錶板這都是前所未有的我們到最後一頁我要提醒您"},{"start":903.819,"end":914.847,"text":"實安就是心安讓國人安心除了我們在座的流向調查專家調查跟加強檢測對於地方政府幫他們忙協助他們建構更好的檢測"},{"start":932.752,"end":938.042,"text":"謝謝吳委員施要的質詢謝謝接下來我們請副委員昆齊請"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}