{"error":false,"id":["149155"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149155,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149155","日期":"2024-02-27","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第2次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第2次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-02-27T17:02:36+08:00","結束時間":"2024-02-27T17:33:07+08:00","影片長度":"00:30:31","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ee9543ba39e9681067b3fe1c4ea9cd274c3dd4484df4233ff8ba9b0039caa7a6a4760fc26950f44b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"17:02:36 - 17:33:07","會議時間":"2024-02-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第2次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、2月23日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、2月27日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":678,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（17時2分）謝謝院長，請陳院長。"],["主席：再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：呂委員午安，恭喜你！"],["呂委員玉玲：院長，辛苦了，今天站了一天，我是最後一個，所以我們可以慢慢來回答喔！"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["呂委員玉玲：首先，請問院長，因為我們兩岸的局勢一直在升溫，雙方的互信基礎非常的薄弱，尤其這一次大陸快艇翻覆的事件，在2月14號發生，當時它進入我們金門海域的時候，海巡署第一時間它是需要上船來做檢查，但是大陸的漁船拒檢，而且它在逃逸的時候蛇行去碰撞到；在2月20號的時候，我們海巡署特別的表示，因為大陸漁船拒檢而發生碰撞，所以現在確定，想請問院長的是，是因為碰撞而發生翻覆的情形嗎？這有沒有相關聯？"],["陳院長建仁：這個已經請相關的專家小組在做鑑定，現在鑑定結果還沒有出來。"],["呂委員玉玲：現在確定是船隻有凹痕，就是碰撞，碰撞是跟這個翻覆有關係囉？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，謝謝您的關心，有關案情的部分，目前都在檢察官的偵辦過程之中，由檢察官全盤在掌握。有關案情的說明，我們認為任何一方的說明都是片面之詞，所以我們都不會……"],["呂委員玉玲：那就是要真相。"],["管主任委員碧玲：對，沒有錯。"],["呂委員玉玲：真相才可以解決問題。"],["管主任委員碧玲：但是請大家放心，所有的事證……"],["呂委員玉玲：因為現在沒有影像、各說各話、沒辦法還原，所以才會沒有真相……"],["陳院長建仁：不，沒有影像也可以……"],["呂委員玉玲：至今一直在溝通，還沒有達到共識……"],["陳院長建仁：有影像當然最好，但是沒有影像也不是說不能鑑定，本來就是這樣，在沒有影像的情況下……"],["呂委員玉玲：院長，因為現在就是沒有影像、無法還原，所以我們真相還是要釐清……"],["管主任委員碧玲：真相還是可以還原……"],["呂委員玉玲：在這個當下，我們就是希望可以溝通協調，把各方的問題找出來，解決這個歧見。"],["管主任委員碧玲：報告委員……"],["呂委員玉玲：現在沒辦法達成共識，目前罹難者家屬是希望把罹難者遺體與船隻可以送回大陸，但海巡署無法接受。"],["管主任委員碧玲：報告委員，兩個部分：一個部分是有關案情的偵查，這部分沒辦法透過溝通協調，這絕對是檢察官偵辦才能夠還原……"],["陳院長建仁：相信執法……"],["呂委員玉玲：我們尊重檢察官的偵辦，但我們希望能趕快溝通，這才是最好的方式……"],["管主任委員碧玲：至於談判、協商部分……協商部分跟委員報告，因為雙方有一個合意，就是在協商結論沒有出來之前，任何一方……"],["呂委員玉玲：可以談判一直破裂嘛？"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有破裂，還是繼續在……我們說是協商，基本上朝著人道……"],["呂委員玉玲：也因為破裂的關係，它現在已經宣布要進入金門限制海域巡弋，這會限縮到我們漁民的權益與臺灣的安全……"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告……"],["呂委員玉玲：不能讓它變成常態性，對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，這件事情目前因為個案被做這樣的政治連結，我們非常的不樂見！但我們比較不宜在這時候說這是一個如何的常態、如何的長遠……兩岸關係……"],["呂委員玉玲：現在它已經進入我們金門海域了，海巡署應該有什麼應變措施？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們都有應處……"],["呂委員玉玲：什麼應處？什麼應處？"],["管主任委員碧玲：在臺灣海域，不管各國的船隻，不只是中國的船隻，越南的船隻，甚至於哪一國的船隻，我的舉例並不代表他們會進來。任何一個國家的船隻在我們所執法的海域，只要一接近，進來……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我們還是要堅守我們整個海域的安全，好不好？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們都有應對……"],["呂委員玉玲：好不好？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們都有應對，都會派船出去應對，我們會廣播，是。"],["呂委員玉玲：堅守海域的安全。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是一定要的！"],["呂委員玉玲：現在因為 M503航線衝擊了我們的飛安安全，在這種情形之下，我們對大陸提嚴正抗議是必要的，只是你禁止臺灣團客赴大陸，這個是在懲戒大陸以表示我們國家的尊嚴嗎？還是犧牲臺灣國民旅遊與旅遊業的權益？"],["陳院長建仁：我想任何國家、兩個國家在旅遊觀光上，應該是彼此互惠的，臺灣一向都准我們的同胞到大陸旅遊，但是到現在為止，沒有得到……"],["呂委員玉玲：我知道要抗議，但是不能犧牲國人旅遊的自由！"],["陳院長建仁：但是我們到現在沒有得到善意的回應，所以委員，你有機會的話也可以跟大陸做這樣的呼籲啦！"],["呂委員玉玲：你的善意是大陸的團客來，我們臺灣的團客才可以去，才可以解禁，是不是？"],["陳院長建仁：你可以呼籲大陸跟我們有善意的因應。"],["呂委員玉玲：是這樣才互相有善意嗎？王部長，我記得你說過，在總統當選人、賴清德總統當選時特別講到，要多多釋出善意，也會開放團客的來往，所以部長在去年11月宣布，3月1日開放陸客來臺。但現在不到幾個月時間，不到3個月時間，你又限制6月1日起禁止臺灣的團客過去，這個是朝令夕改啊！旅遊觀光業準備好了，好不容易三年疫情過去，旅遊業正準備要好好發展，卻又被你禁止！對所有觀光旅遊業者的犧牲與虧損，你要怎麼處理呢？"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，以觀光逆差800億來說，損傷的是，以桃園來講，是損失在旅宿業者、觀光餐飲業者身上，這先跟委員報告。第二個，對營業損失，以3月1日到5月底來說，我們知道組一個團要3個月，所以我們當時就這樣算，讓這個團都出去，所以這個都出去……"],["呂委員玉玲：你認為6月1日禁止就可以嗎？你要知道，7、8月是暑假，很早就把團客、團隊的旅遊單價賣出去了喔！"],["王部長國材：這個都算了，7、8月……"],["呂委員玉玲：這個也算嗎？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，7、8月的可以併團，請他併進來。另外，他們現在最大的……"],["呂委員玉玲：7、8月是暑假，要怎麼併進來呢？"],["王部長國材：第一個，如果能併團，不能併團的部分，現在最大的一筆……"],["呂委員玉玲：要補償嗎？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，現在最大的一筆就是航空公司的訂金，這個現在民航局也在幫忙他們……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，你答應要補償就對了？"],["王部長國材：這部分我們在處理中，這個在處理中。"],["呂委員玉玲：處理是補償嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：溝通協調。"],["王部長國材：當然就是溝通，看他最後大概有什麼損失……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以剛剛聽到部長特別講到的是，因為大陸陸客不來而我們一直去的話，這個是有逆差的，對不對？"],["王部長國材：800億，損傷的是我們自己。"],["呂委員玉玲：我們有逆差，但相對來講，如果這樣講，本席看了一下，我們2022年跟2023年美國進口的豬肉成長了1,283%，這也是貿易的逆差，我們是不是要終止、中斷這個美國的貿易逆差？"],["陳院長建仁：那是豬肉耶，不是貿易……"],["呂委員玉玲：豬肉也是貿易啊！也是逆差啊！"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我覺得是這樣，我們所有……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我們要整體性，我們要以觀光產業之間，不能因為是逆差……"],["陳院長建仁：我們所有，兩個國家之間要有彼此互信、對等的合作……"],["呂委員玉玲：……我們要去發展其他觀光產業，對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：對，任何不管……"],["呂委員玉玲：我們要從別的地方來補這個缺口嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：不管哪一個產業，兩個國家如果有互信、有對等，然後彼此有很好的交流，這就是善意的回應，所以觀光也好……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以善意是互相的啦！"],["王部長國材：互相的。"],["陳院長建仁：當然……"],["呂委員玉玲：互相才能夠……"],["陳院長建仁：他們如果能趕快開放，我們就開放啊！"],["呂委員玉玲：所以院長的意思是說，大陸陸客來的話，臺灣的團客才可以去了，這是你的最基本說法嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：所以我才請你好好地呼籲中國，讓他們的團客來……"],["呂委員玉玲：不是我要呼籲，院長，我們要共同的來解決、溝通、協調，才有共識解決這個問題。"],["陳院長建仁：對啊，我們大家都努力啊，我們政府這邊已經努力了啊！"],["呂委員玉玲：一齊努力，我們現在是討論觀光產業啦，所以請王部長，對於這個部分的話，我們要看觀光產業，我要讓你瞭解這個觀光產業，就是說……"],["陳院長建仁：他們不來是觀光產業受損耶，我們的觀光產業受損耶！"],["呂委員玉玲：2019年我們整個的國際觀光客有1,186萬，你特別在去年的時候也說有信心今年會達到1,200萬，對不對？"],["王部長國材：對，目標。"],["呂委員玉玲：你的信心，如果陸客不來的話，因為陸客占了271萬，占了將近四分之一，你們要怎麼補呢？"],["陳院長建仁：我舉個例子，去年我們本來說是600萬人次的觀光人數，我們沒有看到對岸的善意，可是我們從香港、港澳……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以他要釋出善意，我們現在來解決問題……"],["陳院長建仁：然後從日本、從南韓，都已經達到目標……"],["呂委員玉玲：院長，往前走，不要停在這問題上面……"],["陳院長建仁：我們已經達到600萬人的目標……"],["呂委員玉玲：現在部長要解決我們觀光人次的問題啊！"],["陳院長建仁：對啊……"],["呂委員玉玲：他已經誇下海口說要1,200萬嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：你相信他嘛，時間還沒有到……"],["呂委員玉玲：1,200萬，國際有這麼多國家嗎？你只有陸客而已嗎？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，去年……"],["呂委員玉玲：要怎麼樣去補陸客的這271萬人次呢？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告嘛，去年600萬有100萬是陸客，但是最終陸客沒來，我們有648萬……"],["陳院長建仁：我們還是達標喔。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以要補嘛！"],["王部長國材：對，補……"],["呂委員玉玲：我們看到喜歡來臺灣的觀光客裡面……"],["陳院長建仁：我們從其他國家來補。"],["呂委員玉玲：尤其港澳、日本、韓國是前三名。"],["王部長國材：對，這個是我們的重點目標。"],["呂委員玉玲：對、對、對！本席在這邊建議，除了鄰近我們的三個國家之外，我們是不是還可以開發歐美國家？歐美國家來臺的人次大概30萬人嘛……"],["陳院長建仁：好主意！"],["呂委員玉玲：港澳的話是120萬人次喔，所以我們是不是要開辦辦事處，然後用那邊的辦事處去多做點宣傳來補這個人次呢？"],["王部長國材：是，我們去年大概16個辦事處，今年包括印度，歐洲是本來就有啦，印度跟印尼……"],["呂委員玉玲：因為你只有在英國跟德國有據點嘛！"],["王部長國材：對，然後……"],["呂委員玉玲：我們應該要多辦幾個據點去做宣傳啊！"],["王部長國材：這個我們可以研議啦，我們可以研議，今年的重點是在印度跟印尼，這兩個是我們的重點。"],["陳院長建仁：因為我們……"],["呂委員玉玲：還是屬於東南亞國家，我們要往歐美，因為這個消費市場會比較大一點，比較高一點，不是嗎？"],["王部長國材：對，歐洲過去來臺灣的比較少，比起來，因為東南亞比較近啦。"],["呂委員玉玲：因為距離的關係，加上他們對臺灣的不瞭解，所以要去多宣傳嘛！"],["王部長國材：是，很少，歐洲比較少。對，這個是我們的重點之一。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，所以我們希望兩岸關係趕快在這個開春的時候能夠春暖花開，也能夠撥雲見日，好好的兩岸釋出善意，才能真的來解決這個問題啦。","接下來本席要談的就是我們桃園跟雙北（臺北、新北）都是一個共同的生活圈，尤其是我們在整個基礎建設以外的完善，還有產業，還有很多工作機會都會連結在一起，尤其是這次我們桃園也有來申請聯合醫學中心，很可惜沒有在評比裡面，前面有委員提到這個問題，本席想就教的是說，我們桃園部立醫院也有來申請……"],["陳院長建仁：對，但是因為……"],["呂委員玉玲：我們看到整個臺北地區申請合格的有10個醫院，整個北區有3個醫院來申請，只有2個，請問這2個在哪裡？"],["薛部長瑞元：一個在新竹，一個在桃園，就是長庚……"],["呂委員玉玲：一個是林口的長庚醫院嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：它是桃園啦！"],["呂委員玉玲：我要就教薛部長的是，請問我們醫學中心的門檻是要多少人才有一個醫學中心？多少人口？"],["薛部長瑞元：本來的規劃是200萬人。"],["呂委員玉玲：桃園有多少人口？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，那是要一個區……"],["呂委員玉玲：一個區？北區嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：對，北區，北區是桃竹苗。"],["呂委員玉玲：是的，那臺北、新北這雙北有10所醫院，為什麼我們桃園一所醫學中心都沒有？剛剛特別講的就是林口的長庚醫院，但它離新北最近，大概都服務新北的人，……"],["薛部長瑞元：也不一定啦！"],["呂委員玉玲：那你現在核准了一所在新竹，在這一、兩年的時間內桃園增加的人口數將近有12萬、13萬，新竹增加的人口只有5萬，為什麼桃園不能升格？不能有醫學中心？我們桃園有234萬人口耶！"],["陳院長建仁：這個……"],["呂委員玉玲：在我們整個醫療非常匱乏的情況之下，我們非常不了解為什麼我們沒有被審查通過啊？"],["陳院長建仁：審查通過是專家委員會去審查的啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：……審查的成績啦！"],["陳院長建仁：要看它的成績嘛！"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我請院長告訴我，我剛剛有提到一個重點，桃園有234萬人口，234萬人口卻沒有一個醫學中心，我們在醫療方面是非常匱乏，所以本席要為地方請命，請院長……"],["陳院長建仁：我可以回答嗎？"],["呂委員玉玲：本席有個建議啦……"],["陳院長建仁：我可以回答一下嗎？剛才講的這一個桃園醫院，實際上它是準醫學中心啦！桃園醫院是準醫學中心……"],["呂委員玉玲：哪一個？哪一所？"],["陳院長建仁：部立桃園醫院是準醫學中心，因為它有數目的限制，你剛剛也提了嘛，所以它是準醫學中心，目前它的人力也好、技術也好、設備也好，其實都已經達到醫學中心的標準，但是因為限於數目嘛……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以它還是準醫學中心，不能升級，它的缺點在哪裡？它沒有審查通過的原因在哪裡？"],["薛部長瑞元：再努力就會有了。"],["陳院長建仁：對啦。"],["薛部長瑞元：應該是再努力就會有，因為今年是差一點點，某一個項目因為沒有達標，所以就沒有……"],["呂委員玉玲：哪個部分沒達標？"],["薛部長瑞元：在醫院評鑑的部分，有一個部分……"],["呂委員玉玲：病床數還是醫療項目？是什麼原因？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，就我所知道的是跟資訊系統有關啦！"],["呂委員玉玲：所以它現在是準醫學中心了？"],["薛部長瑞元：它再努力的話應該以後有機會。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以醫學中心的話表示衛福部以後會繼續輔導嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：當然啊！"],["呂委員玉玲：會繼續輔導？"],["薛部長瑞元：那是我們的醫院啊！"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我請院長跟部長要重視桃園234萬人口，我講很多遍了，所以請重視我們的醫療。"],["薛部長瑞元：不過長庚還是算桃園啦！"],["呂委員玉玲：尤其是現在，我們桃園國軍總醫院現在要蓋新的醫療大樓，會增加病床數到876床，所以也請重視桃園國軍總醫院，它在南區，剛剛說的部立醫院在北區，讓我們南北醫療能夠均衡、平衡之下，我也請把這兩所列為準醫學中心，讓我們的醫療能夠獲得更完善……"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有！那個不是我們列的……"],["陳院長建仁：不是我們列的啦！"],["薛部長瑞元：是評鑑，評鑑有評鑑的標準……"],["呂委員玉玲：我說他們現在都已經升格為醫療中心了，不只是醫療大樓病床的問題，還有很多項目，所以也是可以符合大家的規定、審核的標準嘛！我知道有審核標準，我現在是建議，好不好？我們市政府也會提出整個完善的輔導。"],["薛部長瑞元：努力啦！我們會請他們努力啦！"],["陳院長建仁：對。他們要努力達到標準，這是根據專家的醫院評鑑而來的，不是他列的。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，所以在準醫學中心之前，可不可以我們桃園市政府就先來找一些地方，我們也有提出好幾個地方要來做聯合診所。"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，如果是醫院，小於100床以下的，那個市政府就可以核定了，超過100床以上的才需要送到衛福部……"],["呂委員玉玲：聯合診所耶？"],["薛部長瑞元：聯合診所基本上都是在市政府就處理了，診所啦，沒有住院的那一種診所。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以還是要送衛福部來輔導？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，市政府就可以核定了，要讓它……"],["呂委員玉玲：可是我們醫療的資源呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：剛剛委員講的是診所嘛，如果是醫院當然就有醫院的規定，醫院就是有收住院的病床。"],["呂委員玉玲：好。所以我們這兩所都可以了嘛？這兩所，部桃跟我們桃園國軍總醫院，他現在蓋新的醫療大樓，今年9月份就會蓋好了，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：是的，我們都……"],["呂委員玉玲：那我們這個空窗期還有一些聯合診所，我們請桃園市府這邊也趕快的來把完善的計畫做出來，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，那接下來醫療講完，我們想討論的就是龍科3期。謝謝薛部長。","我必須要講一下，院長，前行政院長蘇貞昌、行政院副院長鄭文燦，接連逕自宣布台積電1.4奈米先進製程會在龍潭，然而台積電「自始至終」都沒有明確表態要進駐龍潭，草率把科技產業當成選舉支票，讓台積電龍潭設廠產生變數！民眾直到2023年7月竹科管理局召開公聽會前才知道，自己的土地被劃設在龍科3期的預定範圍內，溝通協調慢半拍才導致民怨。"],["陳院長建仁：我想這一件事情不能夠成功自有公論，不是只有像你唸的這樣，但是我想國科會這一邊也可以跟你說明一下。"],["呂委員玉玲：國科會竹科管理局7月25號在開公聽會的時候，所有的民眾都已反映了，這個就是溝通不良、慢半拍，沒有溝通清楚提早宣布做選舉支票才會產生的情形。本席要跟我們主委所講的，跟院長所談的，就是現在龍科3期一定要繼續開發，因為龍科1、2期已經飽和了，現在龍科3期繼續開發的情形之下，雖然台積電我們還是會繼續來爭取，但是我們有其他的產業，像輝達。輝達他現在也宣布了，他的物流中心在我們大園的航空城，還有就是AI的研發中心，我們就可以爭取來到我們的龍科3期，所以我們在開發的時候，我們是不是要先找一些科技產業也來進駐我們的龍科3期呢？"],["吳主任委員政忠：我跟委員報告，事實上我們竹科管理局持續在跟龍科那邊的居民……"],["呂委員玉玲：你們有沒有去談，找其他的科技產業？"],["吳主任委員政忠：有，我們在溝通，我們持續會來跟居民溝通看看，有哪些地方我們可以來處理，事實上最近也會有一些溝通的公聽會。"],["呂委員玉玲：我們是希望在這部分要繼續開發，現在你講的你們也繼續都會再開發，而且又邀集其他的科技產業進來，但是更重要的是我剛剛講的溝通，所有我們鄉親的土地跟他們的居住權，我們要溝通清楚，不要溝通到一半而已，讓我們的產業、我們的民眾，跟我們整個的科技、政府都能夠三贏的局面，這才是最好的解決方式。"],["吳主任委員政忠：了解，事實上我們也會跟當地的政府一起來合作。"],["呂委員玉玲：就是要這樣子啊！好不好？"],["吳主任委員政忠：當地的政府應該是對當地的居民最瞭解，那部分持續在進行當中。"],["呂委員玉玲：而且特別還有講到的就是，在今年的上半年還要再開兩次公聽會嘛？現在已經快要3月了，你什麼時候再開兩次公聽會？你的期程在什麼時候？"],["吳主任委員政忠：應該3、4月會啟動。"],["呂委員玉玲：下個月？下個月就要開兩次公聽會了，開公聽會以前請把範圍定清楚，再跟所有土地跟居住的人溝通清楚，好不好？"],["吳主任委員政忠：那個一定會。"],["呂委員玉玲：一定要做到這一點，才會有善意，才不會有抗爭，好不好？"],["吳主任委員政忠：了解。"],["呂委員玉玲：好。那接下來本席要繼續討論的就是我們桃園的建設，剛剛也有提到我們桃園鐵路地下化，桃園鐵路地下化從鶯歌、鳳鳴一直到中壢，後來延伸到平鎮。這個過程中我們看到，整個現在開始在做的時候，已經這麼久的時間，都用分段、分區在施工，而且現在問題是工程有delay啦，所以我不曉得這個delay的原因是工程整個的整體計畫還是發包不順利，或者整體的預算的問題？"],["王部長國材：跟呂委員報告，現在它四個主體的標應該在1個月內全部都會發包完畢，所以主要的都會，在去年的確有1年非常不順利，都一直流標……"],["呂委員玉玲：為什麼？"],["王部長國材：我們局長有跟我說明，現在有兩標已經審查過了，審查過就馬上公布是誰，另外兩個標正在審查，就是有廠商投進來，所以主體標都沒問題，但是唯一的就是在桃園車站的標會碰到文資的課題，這個部分是他們現在最擔心的，所以如果……"],["呂委員玉玲：因為在我們平鎮段那個新光路的平交道要做臨時軌，去年大概要在10月份封路做臨時軌，結果一直都沒有，我不曉得這個工程是卡在哪裡。"],["王部長國材：也是一樣，就是發包不順利、經費有點不足，現在第一個我們在提修正計畫，但是最重要的工程也就是在主體的這四個標在1個月內應該都會發包完成，那我想說臨時軌的部分包括我們預算的調整也趕快來做，所以我想說會趕快來追上這個進度。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，應該要讓整個工程能夠如期如質，所以我剛剛特別提到的就是我們新光路這個平交道，因為我們南端出土的位置不適當，就在台66線前面，因為這個問題，我們附近十幾個里，包括我們張司長，我們也都在跟交通部這邊溝通、協調，現在已經拍板定案要南移1.2公里，就在陸橋南路，這個計畫也要由鐵道局來做計畫送交通部再到行政院，請問現在送出了沒有？"],["王部長國材：是，他們還沒有送到交通部。"],["呂委員玉玲：是卡在哪裡？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，因為前面都進行了一陣子，那這個平鎮的南移要重新做一點初步的可行性，所以還需要時間，我知道他們現在有加速在進行。"],["呂委員玉玲：這個是差不多在去年9月的時候，到現在這麼久了，因為它只是南移1.2公里，只要做環差而已，很快的啊！"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，雖然是一點多公里，可是你要估費用……"],["呂委員玉玲：請問部長，什麼時候送進交通部再送行政院？鐵道局……"],["王部長國材：他們現在還在進行中，還沒有給我時間點，還沒有送上來。"],["呂委員玉玲：大概要多久？"],["王部長國材：現在正在加速中。"],["呂委員玉玲：我們希望整個工程都能夠順利，尤其是我們剛才講的整個計畫你們發包的問題、預算的問題，預算穩定，發包才會順利，才會讓工程如期如質的完成，所以請部長你們要整體的盤整，要去精算一下，到時候不要跟我們講什麼缺工、缺料的問題，好不好？"],["王部長國材：好。"],["呂委員玉玲：尤其是我們整個桃園的鐵路地下化最重要的是要帶來地方的進步跟繁榮，也解決交通堵塞的問題，所以我們才會將這個南端的出土位置南移1.2公里。本席也要在這邊請王部長要重視一下我們平鎮車站必須要有一個大車站成為新都心，帶來地方的繁榮發展，才能讓我們建置鐵路如期的更加有加倍的效果，好不好？"],["王部長國材：是，這個部分我想說大車站計畫的重點在都市計畫，我知道桃園市政府原來……"],["呂委員玉玲：都已經在做了。"],["王部長國材：對，我想他提出來以後，有些都市計畫的程序，因為基本上車站旁邊跟這個土地開發也是我們期待的。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我們希望趕快，我會請市政府趕快把計畫送到交通部，然後在核定之後來併入我們桃地的這個工程，才不會耽誤而會如期的來完成，好不好？無縫接軌嘛！是不是？"],["王部長國材：我們在等啊！委員也是跟市長講一下。"],["呂委員玉玲：OK。"],["陳院長建仁：委員跟市長拜託，然後請市政府加緊。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，都有在做計劃了，我們都在研議了。"],["陳院長建仁：很好。"],["呂委員玉玲：那鐵路講完，我要講公路了。我們在地方的公路建設，因為桃園也身處於國門，有桃機，有國一跟我們的國三，還有一些橫向的，尤其桃園市政府特別完成了五縱五橫的高快速道路的路網，希望能夠打通我們整個桃園的路廊，在這五條快速道路裡面，對板龍快速道路跟新梅龍快速道路這兩條，行政院已經同意做可行性的評估了，這兩條剛好都屬於我們南桃園，我們北桃園部分有三條，就是城中快速道路、環城西路跟國一甲東延到我們桃北這個地方，那對這三條的部分，行政院這邊並沒有來協助，那我想替地方來請願，這三條因為是連結北桃跟南桃整個路網、路廊，所以可不可以一起來做評估呢？"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，因為現在的新屋、楊梅跟龍潭，還有包括板龍，即板橋到龍潭，因為我們現在有一個計畫是桃竹苗產業園區的規劃。"],["呂委員玉玲：對、對、對。"],["王部長國材：所以優先把它放進去，這個部分應該在4月，兩個可行性都會發包出去，其他……"],["呂委員玉玲：今年就會完成了嘛！這兩條，即板龍跟新梅龍。"],["王部長國材：可行性在4月……"],["呂委員玉玲：今年就可以完成了？"],["王部長國材：發包出去開始執行，可行性……"],["呂委員玉玲：好，那另外三條可以一併做嗎？"],["王部長國材：其他的道路……"],["呂委員玉玲：因為這整個路網、路廊是連貫的，在整個桃園地方。"],["王部長國材：對，事實上，其他三條我個人沒有看到桃園市政府曾經提到這樣的計畫。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，如果計畫送進去的話，可以幫我們一起做評估嗎？"],["王部長國材：我們先看一下那個計畫的內容。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，那就是我們部長在這邊答應，如果送進去的話就一起來做評估了。"],["王部長國材：他們要先提出來。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，謝謝王部長。本席為什麼特別要提到這個路網的重要性？因為這個板龍快速道路是從土城一直到龍潭，連接新北，尤其新梅龍的話，更從龍潭到楊梅到新屋，這個就在我們龍科三期的範圍內，如果未來整個人流跟我們的產業到航空城物流方面會更加的需要，讓我們地方不會有塞車的問題，要讓我們地方產業、地方發展，不管是產業跟觀光，最重要的就是交通，整個連貫是非常重要的，所以請部長在這邊一定要幫我們這五條快速道路，就是五縱五橫裡面，這五橫非常重要，幫我們一併來解決這個問題，好不好？"],["王部長國材：我想現在比較有計畫的就是板龍跟新梅龍，這2個現在就是在進行。"],["呂委員玉玲：我知道，這個部分你已經同意。"],["王部長國材：其他三個我們再看一下，因為……"],["呂委員玉玲：這三條剛好都是在北桃的部分。"],["王部長國材：我們先看它初步的方案好不好？因為過去像這些道路是在鄭副院長當市長的時候有提過，所以很明確，其他三條我再看一下他們提出來的內容。"],["陳院長建仁：還是需要市政府的努力。"],["王部長國材：提出他們的初步方案，我們討論一下。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，都有提出來了，因為市府特別在講說，因為五橫的這兩條，我們行政院已經同意了，所以另外北桃這三條，因為整個路網、路廊來講，是有必要性的，尤其是……"],["陳院長建仁：這整個構想看起來是很好，但是沒有提到中央這邊來，我們怎麼曉得它要做什麼、要討論什麼？所以重要的還是請委員回去敦促我們市政府儘快地提出構想，我們才有辦法、才能討論，不然就不知道要討論什麼。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，謝謝，那我們會趕快送進去，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝呂委員玉玲的質詢，謝謝陳院長。","報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢。謝謝陳院長、鄭副院長以及各位部會首長的列席答詢。現在作以下的決定：下次會議繼續進行施政方針及施政報告之質詢。現在散會，謝謝大家。","散會（17時33分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-2","speakers":["韓國瑜","吳秉叡","丁學忠","黃珊珊","林岱樺","陳雪生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2年跟2023年進口"},{"start":467.349,"end":484.4,"text":"美國進口的這個豬肉啊,它就成長了百分之一千兩百八十三了,那這也是貿易的逆差,那我們是不是要中止這個,中斷這個美國的這個貿易逆差?那是豬肉欸,不是貿易。豬肉也是貿易啊,也是逆差啊。"},{"start":485.66,"end":492.224,"text":"我覺得委員是這樣,我們所有兩個國家之間要有彼此互信之間的合作。不管哪一個產業,兩個國家如果有互信、有對等,然後彼此很好的交流,"},{"start":506.971,"end":516.936,"text":"所以觀光也好,所以善意是互相的啦,互相才能夠,所以院長你的意思說,他大陸客來的話,我們的臺灣的團客才可以去了,就基本的這樣子的說法嗎?"},{"start":525.741,"end":531.708,"text":"不是我要呼籲院長我們要共同的來解決溝通協調才有共識解決這問題一起努力我們現在是討論觀光產業啦所以請黃部長這個部分的話我們要看看觀光產業因為我怎麼"},{"start":546.403,"end":563.528,"text":"他們不來是觀光產業受損我們的觀光產業受損2019年我們的所有的這整個觀光這個國際觀光客有1186萬嘛你特別在去年的時候你也說你有信心今年會達到1200萬對不對那你的信心那陸客不來的話陸客佔了271萬"},{"start":570.47,"end":584.538,"text":"但將近四分之一,你們要怎麼補呢?我舉個例子嘛,去年我們本來說是六百萬人次的觀光人數,我們沒有看到對岸的善意,可是我們從"},{"start":586.998,"end":594.441,"text":"所以臺灣是四處善意,我們現在來解決問題,院長廣協總要提出到這個問題上面,現在部長要解決我們觀光人士的問題啊,他已經誇下海口說要1200萬嘛,1200萬,國際有這麼多國家嗎?你只有陸克而已嗎?"},{"start":606.664,"end":608.146,"text":"所以我們看到喜歡來台灣的觀光客裡面尤其是"},{"start":623.53,"end":644.006,"text":"港澳、日本、韓國是前三名的這個是我們的重點目標對對對那我本席在這邊建議就是說除了這個鄰近我們這個三個國家之外我們是不是還可以開發到像歐美國家歐美國家我們看到他的人次大概30萬人嘛那港澳的話是120萬人次喔"},{"start":646.067,"end":661.64,"text":"所以我們是不是要用那邊開辦他那邊有個辦事處多的宣傳來補助這個人事呢?是我們現在去年大概16個辦事處最近今年包括印度跟歐洲本來就有了"},{"start":661.8,"end":663.3,"text":"因為消費這個市場會比較大一點,比較高一點,是嗎?"},{"start":681.365,"end":708.621,"text":"對,歐洲過去來台灣比較少,比起來因為比較近啦,東岸比較近。因為距離的關係啦,跟對台灣人的不了解,所以要去多宣傳嘛。對,這個是我們重點之一。是,好,所以我們希望我們兩岸的關係趕快都能夠在這個開春的時候能夠春暖花開,也能夠撥雲見日,好好的兩岸釋出善意,才能真的來解決這個問題啦齁。那接下來本席要談的就是我們"},{"start":709.682,"end":709.702,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":728.942,"end":756.787,"text":"申請聯合醫學中心很可惜沒有在評比裡面前面有委員提到這個問題本身想救教的就是說我們桃園部立醫院也有來申請我們看到整個臺北地區申請合格有10個醫院那整個北區的話有3個醫院來申請只有2個"},{"start":760.082,"end":782.809,"text":"請問這兩個在哪裡?一個在新竹一個在桃園一個在林口的長庚醫院所以這個我要救教的就是我們薛副長我們醫學中心的門檻是要多少人才有一個醫學中心?本來的規劃是200萬人桃園有多少人口?"},{"start":783.98,"end":787.726,"text":"那是要一個區北區嘛那台北新北這個雙北有10所醫院為什麼"},{"start":794.312,"end":813.346,"text":"我們桃園一所醫學中心都沒有剛剛特別講的就是林口的長庚醫院他離新北最近大概都服務於新北的人那你現在何止你一所在新竹新竹在這個一兩年的時候我們桃園增加的人口數將近有12萬13萬"},{"start":815.847,"end":823.814,"text":"新竹增加的人口只有5萬,我們為什麼桃園不能夠升格,不能有醫學中心,我們桃園有234萬人口欸。"},{"start":826.558,"end":840.663,"text":"所以我們整個醫療非常匱乏的情況之下所以我們非常不了解為什麼我們沒有被審查通過啊?所以我請院長做事我剛剛提到了一個重點桃園234萬人口234萬人口沒有一個醫學中心在我們的醫療上面非常的匱乏所以本席要為地方請命請院長"},{"start":856.971,"end":860.856,"text":"我可以回答一下嗎?剛才講的這個桃園實際上它是準醫學中心哪一個?哪一所?"},{"start":869.062,"end":871.023,"text":"對啦應該是再努力就會有因為今年是差一點點"},{"start":899.093,"end":919.586,"text":"某一個項目的話因為沒有達標所以就就沒有哪個部分沒達標在醫院評鑑的部分有一個有一個部分病床數還是醫療是什麼原因還是醫療項目就是我所知道的是跟資訊系統所以他現在是準醫學中心了"},{"start":921.12,"end":927.604,"text":"所以醫學中心的話表示我們衛福部會繼續輔導嗎?當然啦那是我們的意願我請院長跟部長要重視桃園234萬我講很多遍了"},{"start":936.155,"end":958.292,"text":"所以請重視我們的醫療那尤其是現在我們桃園國軍總醫院現在要蓋新的醫療大樓會增加到病床數有876床所以我也請重視我們桃園國軍總醫院它在南區剛剛講的部立院是在北區讓我們南北醫療能夠均衡"},{"start":959.013,"end":977.729,"text":"平衡之下,我也請把這兩所列為準醫學中心,讓我們的醫療能夠獲得更完善好不好。我說他們現在都已經升個醫療中心了,不只是醫療大樓病床的問題,還有很多項目,所以也是可以符合大家的規定嘛。"},{"start":978.49,"end":986.276,"text":"對,他們要努力達到標準這是根據專家的醫院評鑑而來的所以在這個準醫學中心之前可不可以我們桃園市政府就先來找一些地方我們也評鑑好幾個地方提出了幾個地方來做聯合診所"},{"start":1006.811,"end":1034.153,"text":"跟委員報告齁,如果是醫院是小於100床以下的,那市政府就可以核定了。超過100床以上才需要送到...聯合診所欸聯合診所基本上都是在市政府就處理了。診所啦,沒有住院的那一種...還是要送衛福部來輔導?沒有,就是市政府就可以核定了。可是我們醫療的資源啊?"},{"start":1038.946,"end":1065.964,"text":"沒有,剛剛委員講的是診所嘛,如果是醫院當然就有醫院的規定,醫院就是有收住院的病床。所以我們這兩所都可以了吧,兩所這個部桃跟我們桃園國軍總醫院,它現在新的醫療大樓9月份就蓋好了,今年9月份就會蓋好了。是啦,我們都...照空窗期還有一些聯合診所,我們請桃園市府這邊也趕快的來把這個完善的計畫做出來,好不好?"},{"start":1067.398,"end":1082.755,"text":"好那接下來這一聊講完我們想跟我們部長討論的就是龍科三期龍科三期謝謝薛部長我必須要講一下"},{"start":1084.892,"end":1107.896,"text":"院長在前行政院長蘇貞昌跟行政院的副院長鄭文燦接連的禁制宣布台積電的1.4奈米先進的這個製程會在論壇然而台積電自始至終都沒有明確的表態要進駐論壇草率的把科技產業當成選舉的支票讓台積電論壇設廠產生變數"},{"start":1114.295,"end":1130.398,"text":"民眾直到2023年的7月份竹科管理局召開了公聽會前才知道自己的土地被劃設在農科三期的預定範圍內。所以溝通協調慢半拍才導致民怨。"},{"start":1131.513,"end":1155.723,"text":"我想這一件事情能夠成功是有公論不是只有像你念的這樣但是我想國科會這一邊也可以國科會、竹科、管理局那時候7月25號的時候在開公聽會的時候所有的民眾都已經反映了這個就是溝通不了慢半拍沒有溝通清楚提早宣布做選舉支票"},{"start":1157.827,"end":1180.946,"text":"才會產生的情形那本席要跟我們主委所講的跟院長所談的就是現在農科三級一定要繼續開發因為農科一、二期已經飽和了現在農科三級繼續開發的情形之下我們雖然是台積電我們還是會繼續來爭取但是我們有其他的產業像輝達輝達現在也宣布了"},{"start":1185.555,"end":1186.575,"text":"﹚三、2月27日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。﹚"},{"start":1205.143,"end":1226.782,"text":"那個我跟這個委員報告事實上我們這個竹科管理局持續在跟農科那邊的居民有沒有去談找其他的科技產業我們持續會來跟居民溝通看看有哪些地方我們可以來處理事實上最近也會有一些溝通的這個公聽會"},{"start":1228.482,"end":1254.871,"text":"我們是希望在這個繼續開發我們現在直接講的你們也繼續都會再開發而且要邀集其他的科技產業進來但是要重要我剛剛講的溝通所有我們的鄉親的土地跟他們的這個居住權我們要溝通清楚不要溝通到一半而已讓我們的產業跟我們的民眾跟我們的這個整個科技"},{"start":1256.772,"end":1284.225,"text":"政府都能夠三贏的局面這才是最好的解決方式事實上我們也會跟當地的政府一起來合作事實上當地的那個政府應該對當地的居民應該是最了解那那個持續在進行當中而且現在特別有講到就是說在這個上半年今年的上半年還要再開兩次的公聽會嘛現在已經快要三月了你什麼時候再開兩次公聽會你的期程在什麼時候三、四月應該會啟動"},{"start":1285.626,"end":1288.067,"text":"接下來本席要繼續討論的就是我們桃園的建設"},{"start":1312.042,"end":1314.824,"text":"桃園鐵路地下化,從英哥鳳鳴一直到中壢,後來延伸到平鎮。"},{"start":1327.532,"end":1327.972,"text":"關於委員報告,現在他四個組體的標"},{"start":1350.22,"end":1374.612,"text":"在應該一個月內全部都會發報完畢所以主要的都會在去年的確有一年非常不順利都一直流標現在我們居然跟我說明說現在有兩標已經審查過了審查過就馬上公佈誰了另外兩標正在審查就是有廠商投進來所以主體標都沒問題但是唯一的這個在桃園車站的標會碰到這個文資的課題"},{"start":1375.752,"end":1403.2,"text":"這個部分是他們現在最擔心的。因為在我們憑證段的時候那個新光爐那個評交到要做臨時軌嘛。去年大概10月要封路做臨時軌,結果一直都沒有。我不曉得這工程卡到哪裡。一樣,就是花包不順利,經費有點不足。那現在第一個我們在提這個修正計畫。但最重要的工程在這個主體啦,主體的這個四個標在一個月內應該都會花包完成。"},{"start":1403.881,"end":1409.133,"text":"我想說臨時軌部分因為包括我們預算的調整也趕快來做所以我想說會趕快來追上這個進度"},{"start":1413.056,"end":1440.376,"text":"應該要讓整個工程能夠如期如質所以我剛剛特別提到的就是我們新光路這個品交道那因為我們南端的出土的位置不適當在66前面那因為這個問題我們附近十幾個里根包括我們張市長我們也都溝通在跟交通部這邊溝通協調現在已經拍板定了要南移1.2公里在鹿橋南路那這個計畫也要鐵道局來做計畫送交通部再到行政院請問"},{"start":1442.057,"end":1456.164,"text":"現在送出了沒有?是,他還沒送到交通部因為我跟委包因為全面都進行一陣子那你這個憑證的難以他重新要做一點初步的可行性所以他還需要時間我知道他們現在加速在進行"},{"start":1458.296,"end":1481.096,"text":"這個是去年差不多9月的時間,現在到這麼久了。現在因為他只是難以1.2公里,只要做環差而已。很快的啊。那請問部長,什麼時候送進交通部在行政院?什麼時候?鐵道局?他還在進行中,還沒有給我時間點,還沒有送上來。大概多久?現在在加速中。"},{"start":1484.332,"end":1505.065,"text":"我們希望整個工程都能夠順利那尤其是我們剛才講的整個計畫你們的發包的問題預算的問題預算穩定發包才會順利才讓工期如期如質的完成所以請部長你們整體的要盤整要去精算一下那到時候不要跟我們講什麼缺工缺料的問題"},{"start":1506.345,"end":1506.465,"text":"﹚主席"},{"start":1522.342,"end":1537.018,"text":"我們王副長要重視一下我們平鎮車站必須要有大車站所謂新都心帶來地方的繁榮發展才有讓我們建制這鐵路過去的這個如期的更加的加倍的效果好不好是"},{"start":1538.079,"end":1554.609,"text":"這一個部分我想說大車站計畫他重點在都市計畫我知道臺灣市政府在延耐都已經在做了我想他提出來以後有些都市化程序或是因為基本上車站旁邊跟這個土地開發這也是我們是期待的"},{"start":1555.109,"end":1580.924,"text":"所以我們希望趕快去把請示我會請市政府趕快把計畫送到我們交通部來然後合併之後來併入我們陶地的這個工程才不會耽誤會如期的來完成好不好無縫接軌吧是不是我們在等啦委員也是跟市長講一下委員跟市長拜託然後請市政府加緊啦有有都在做計畫了我們都在努力了很好啊很好好那鐵路講完我們講公路了這個"},{"start":1583.465,"end":1603.195,"text":"我們在地方的這個公路建設因為桃園也身處於國門有桃機有國一跟我們的國三還有一些橫向的尤其桃園市政府特別完成了這個五縱五橫的高快速道路的這個路網希望能夠打通我們整個桃園的路廊"},{"start":1603.775,"end":1628.897,"text":"那這個五條高速公路裡面快速道路裡面有兩條板龍快速道路跟新梅龍快速道路我們行政院已經同意做可行性的評估了那這個是這兩條剛好都屬於我們南桃園的那我們北桃園部分有三條是城中快速道路跟我們環城西路跟國一甲東沿道我們桃北這個地方那這個三條的部分我們"},{"start":1629.798,"end":1642.679,"text":"呃,行政院這邊並沒有來協助,那我想跟地方請願喔,替地方來請願,這三條因為是北桃跟南桃是連結整個路網路廊喔,所以可不可以一起來做評估呢?"},{"start":1643.679,"end":1665.134,"text":"關尾報告,因為現在的新屋、陽美跟龍潭,還有包括板橋道龍潭,這個是因為我們現在有一個計畫是投豬苗產業延期的規劃,所以優先把它放進去,那這個部分應該在4月兩個都可行性都會發報出去。今年就會完成了吧?"},{"start":1667.508,"end":1681.117,"text":"可行性可行性的一年就可以完成了對花包出去開始執行了可行性好那另外三條可以並做嗎因為他這整個路網路廊是連貫的嘛在整個桃園地方"},{"start":1682.35,"end":1696.101,"text":"對,其他三條事實上我個人沒有看到臺灣市政府曾經提到這樣的計畫。是,那如果計畫送進去的話可以幫我們一起做評估嗎?我先看那個計畫的內容一下。好,那就是我們部長在這邊待,如果送進去的話一起來做評估了。"},{"start":1700.095,"end":1719.534,"text":"謝謝王副長。本席為什麼特別要提到這個路網的非常重要性呢?因為這個板樓快速道路從土城一直到龍潭連接新北。那尤其新梅龍的話更從龍潭到陽梅到新屋。這個就在我們龍科三期的這個範圍內。"},{"start":1721.095,"end":1749.504,"text":"那如果說未來這個人流跟我們的產業到我們的航空城這個物流的方面的話會更加的需要讓我們地方的不會有塞車的問題要讓我們地方產業地方發展不管是產業跟觀光最重要的就是交通所以整個連貫是非常重要的所以請部長在這邊一定幫我們這整個這個五條快速道路五縱五橫裡面這五橫裡面非常重要幫我們一併的來解決這個問題"},{"start":1751.945,"end":1768.127,"text":"我講現在比較有計畫就是板農跟新梅農這兩個現在就是在進行其他三個我們再看一下已經同意了那我說這三條剛好都是在北桃的這個部分我們先看他初步的方案好不好是因為過去"},{"start":1768.707,"end":1797.406,"text":"像這些道路是在政府院長當市長的時候也提過所以很明確其他我是三條我再看一下他們提出來的還是需要市政府的提出來他們的這個初步的方案出來我們討論一下因為都有提出來了因為市府特別在講說說因為因為有五橫的這個兩條我們行政院已經同意嘛所以另外北桃市三條的話也整個整個路網路廊來講的話是有必要性的那尤其是西門隆"},{"start":1798.687,"end":1799.147,"text":"謝謝呂委員玉玲的質詢。謝謝陳院長。"},{"start":1827.83,"end":1830.999,"text":"報告委員會本日排定質詢的委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}