{"error":false,"id":["149169"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149169,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149169","日期":"2024-03-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第3次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第3次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-01T11:51:04+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-01T12:07:09+08:00","影片長度":"00:16:05","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/61498c107f55f9624a61ae9282783921dba0a28dd420b397f8ba9b0039caa7a6a7e6c24935185c665ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"11:51:04 - 12:07:09","會議時間":"2024-03-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第3次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n 二、3月1日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n 三、3月5日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":868,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（11時51分）謝謝，請院長。"],["主席：請陳院長備詢，謝謝。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：委員早。"],["李委員柏毅：我是不是可以直接請交通部王部長一起列席？"],["主席：請交通部王部長備詢。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：在王部長來以前先恭喜委員當選新科立委。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝院長。院長，我們都來自高雄，過去院長在高雄成長的過程裡面，高雄長怎樣？從過去院長旗山這個農業集散大鎮到後來……當時的高雄其實也是高污染。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["李委員柏毅：同時擁有中鋼、中油、台船。經過這幾年蔡英文政府的轉型之後，我想拿一個最經典，必須要拿出來再跟全國人民說明的事情。日前、上個禮拜台積電熊本廠在日本開幕，日本政府對於這第一個廠，它給台積電超過1,000億臺幣的補助，這是補助台積電的部分，至於第二個廠，聽說對台積電的補助要加碼補助到1,500億，這些補助不包含當地的地方建設，包含鐵公路、包含周邊道路、包含污水處理廠、包含工業用水等等不包含，我們如果再算一下，它給地方政府的這些地方建設的補助，包含水可能就高達100億臺幣，包含其他這些交通補助是超過150億臺幣。我要講的是，台積電目前在高雄楠梓，目前我們政府給予台積電多少補助？請問院長，我們有沒有給台積電任何補助？"],["陳院長建仁：我想在台積電設廠的過程當中，我們對於交通的建設也好，或者水的供應也好等等，其實都有通盤的規劃。當然，譬如說交通的建設，我們很難說單獨對台積電……"],["李委員柏毅：沒有，我是說單純對台積電的補助我們沒有嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：沒有。"],["李委員柏毅：好，那我們是不是更應該對於周邊將來可能影響到這個城市的改變，這個城市所有的交通建設，這個城市未來可能遇到的問題都要加緊布局？其實台積電會在高雄設廠是跟經濟部有關啦！當時在2015年關廠的時候，2016年，中油提出來當地的土污整治年限高達17年，那一年我剛好42歲，17年的整治，我剛好60歲才可以看到中油的整治完成，才有下一步中油未來要怎麼規劃。所以在2020年的時候陳其邁市長就任，跟經濟部、跟行政院提出用3年280億加速中油廠區的整治，所以才有現在台積電的進駐。王美花部長，在這個過程裡面，目前這280億整治的經費到位了沒？什麼時候可以整治完畢？整個高煉廠的解列什麼時候可以……也就是說，目前台積電規劃的2加1個廠是不是還有兩個廠區的空間，在未來還有空間可以繼續再設廠？請王美花部長做一個詳細的說明。"],["王部長美花：事實上，整治的時程都是跟高雄市政府有密切商量。譬如說，現在一廠跟二廠四周都是整治完才會開始建廠，三廠的部分其實也是很快就可以整治完畢，所以我們其實是搭配整個需求，然後……"],["李委員柏毅：所以這280億是陸續到位，那什麼時候可以完成解列？"],["王部長美花：完成解列，原來高雄市政府就希望3年可以完成，所以這個經費其實都持續在投入當中。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝，王部長，請你先回，我等一下還會請你回來，是王美花部長回。請王部長留下。","王美花部長先回的原因是因為280億已經到位，高雄市政府已經在做土污的整治，目前有五分之三的廠區台積電已經正在建廠或籌劃要建廠，王國材部長，接下來是你的工作啊！陳建仁院長在上任之後，其實就已經開始在做相關的布局，包含今天我要質詢的兩個很重要的議題，第一個就是我們的捷運紫線，捷運黃線在2017年開始動作，2019年完成可行性評估之後，在去年都做了動工，也就是在4到5年期間內，捷運黃線把它從高雄5G AIoT園區沿苓雅區、三民區，到仁武，它會貫穿一些醫療院所，包含長庚醫院，它也經過高雄醫學院。我們希望捷運紫線未來從捷運黃線的Y9站，從高雄醫學院往民族路，往北可以連到高雄榮總，再往西到左營高鐵，再沿左營高鐵進入右昌社區進入高雄大學地區，再進入橋頭科學園區，往右延伸以前的高雄學園線，目前這個可行性評估，我們已經跟交通部爭取到可行性評估的經費，請王國材部長回應，這一個可行性評估的報告什麼時候出來？報告出來之後，行政院跟高雄市政府的合作，我們希望可以拚在4年內跟捷運黃線一樣可以動工。來，請王部長說明。"],["王部長國材：經過委員還有以前劉世芳委員的爭取，當時我們大概用1,680萬補可行性，就像你這裡講的，它是在6月才會完成可行性報告，這是高雄市政府在做，它提出來以後我們會加速，按照我們捷運建設來審查，但是有沒有辦法追到黃線，我覺得滿困難的，因為黃線已經動工了。"],["李委員柏毅：我的意思是說4到5年內，黃線是4到5年內動工，可行性評估通過之後4到5年內動工。"],["王部長國材：這沒問題，因為現在捷運是可行性、綜合規劃到施工都是地方，如果有行政程序要縮短，我們來縮短，我們跟市政府一起合作讓它加速。"],["陳院長建仁：我們協助。"],["李委員柏毅：第二題是有關臺鐵立體化，臺鐵立體化在左營跟楠梓其實是非常大的一個課題，楠梓百慕達是全臺灣最出名的，怎麼樣解決楠梓百慕達，包含有通勤的功能，剛好台積電園區裡面會有臺鐵的經過。如果臺鐵的立體化，或者不管是地下、或者是高架，它其實同時會解決楠梓這個高架橋的問題。所以在這邊也要提出來，在陳院長的任內其實也已經提出臺鐵立體化的可行性報告，我們也希望這個可行性報告的時程可以跟我們所有高雄的市民朋友報告，什麼時候可以完成？什麼時候可以施工？兩個方案差在哪裡？到底高架跟地下的方案差在哪裡？是不是也可以請部長來做一個說明？"],["王部長國材：我們也補了1,265萬，現在就在做，但是它是到明年才會有一個可行性報告出來。目前它的確是從高架跟地下來討論。"],["李委員柏毅：高架多少錢？"],["王部長國材：總數我不知道，應該是你這裡寫的168億跟500……"],["李委員柏毅：高架喔……"],["王部長國材：高架比較便宜啦！"],["李委員柏毅：可能是168億。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["李委員柏毅：地下的話可能會超過576億，而且地下可能還評估會經過TSMC的園區裡面，這個可能還要做相關進一步的評估跟說明。"],["王部長國材：對，它裡面大概會再加兩個通勤車站，我有稍微看過他們的報告，但是還沒有完整，在明年初會提出來。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：同樣的，因為高雄鐵路地下化的軌道已經下地很久，107年就下地，所以北延的部分可以開始動了。"],["李委員柏毅：也可以開始動，但是如果這個定案出來，我們其實要跟高雄市政府趕快……"],["王部長國材：是，我們加速審查。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝。第三題，楠梓交流道的引道要直接進入楠梓產業園區裡面，為什麼？現在整個臺南跟高雄國道1號的車流量已經非常大，未來高雄楠梓產業園區的台積電園區跟臺南的整個科技產業園區會形成一個聚落，到時候交通用量會更大，再加上左營跟楠梓市區的道路，我們勢必需要一條交流道的引道可以進入園區。請問這一條引道的進度跟經費，交通部到位了沒有？"],["王部長國材：對，因為已經放在國科會去……這個已經送國發會審議中，審議完以後，經費大概78.4億，我們現在整個規劃大概117年會完工，只要這個核定以後，細設跟施工就會馬上進行。"],["李委員柏毅：117年完工。"],["王部長國材：對，完工。"],["李委員柏毅：我們完工到台積電可能園區開始有工程師進駐，還有2、3年的空窗期，所以我們還是要加緊所有的這些速度。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["李委員柏毅：感謝內政部營建署在新臺17線，讓它從2017年趕快從橋頭科學園區旁邊的橋頭進入楠梓、進入左營。目前的進度包含南段已經跟國防部……也感謝國防部有給予相關的協調方案，順利讓這一條路可以動工。此外，我們期待這一條路在2026年可以動工完成。請內政部林右昌部長可以針對新臺17線這一條路說明。"],["林部長右昌：新臺17線的部分，北段現在已經完工而且通車，南一段的部分去年動工，南二段的部分預計今年4月會上網招標，這兩個部分都預計115年底完工，南三段的部分現在正在進行規劃跟設計。"],["李委員柏毅：部長，我打斷一下，我先請王部長回座。在林右昌部長說明這一段的時候，我想要邀請國防部邱部長可以上來對目前內政部……"],["主席：請國防部邱部長備詢。"],["李委員柏毅：內政部跟高雄市政府的這一條方案，國防部目前的狀況有沒有完全給予同意？對於接下來內政部跟高雄市政府的方案、動工，國防部有沒有相關還需要行政院配合跟支持的地方？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，我們之前共同推動，我很感激吳政務委員從中協調，高雄市政府也出了很多力，我們軍方也很配合。到目前為止，哪一條路該拓寬或讓出來的，都已經做了很好的協調規劃。高雄市政府在推動的工作當中，可能有的地方還需要我們軍方能夠多支援一點，但我們軍方要支援的話有條件，代拆、代建，像這些都是行政院規定，這不能違背，所以持續在協調當中。但目前這些工作推動一切都很順暢，在這邊跟委員報告。"],["李委員柏毅：在這邊也跟部長說明，我在擔任市議員的期間，也就是去年的事情，還曾跟高雄市政府講，中海門哨口要往內移，國防部願意同意，這個我們真的要感謝國防部之外，代拆、代建的事情，高雄市政府也願意出列相當的經費，看國防部有什麼需求，我們趕快把這個中海門哨口往內移，讓未來這一條新臺17線以及很重要的海軍總醫院可以進化成社區醫院，服務社區的民眾。這一方面我也要請院長這邊……海軍總醫院未來醫療量能的提升，以及國防部所有的哨口內移這件事情，配合新臺17線的這個建設，我們希望可以完全支持國防部，讓內政部、國防部、高雄市政府可以促成貫穿高雄南北非常重要的一條交通建設。"],["陳院長建仁：我們通盤配合然後規劃進行，我想這個都很重要，我們所有的部會都會努力。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝院長，也謝謝兩位部長，兩位部長也請回座。","最後，從2016年到2024年，整個蔡英文政府及行政院團隊對於高雄的這些努力，我想建設有留下來，建設看得到。但是最後我們還是要在這邊請經濟部跟中油對企業總部大樓來做一個比較積極的評估。請經濟部王美花部長也聽一下。"],["主席：請經濟部王部長備詢。"],["李委員柏毅：在2015年中油這個廠區停產之前，2016年政黨剛剛輪替的那一段時間，其實中油公司提出了中油土污整治的期間是17年，當然蔡英文政府到2020年之後，我們用3年的時間把這個土污整治完成，完成這個土污之外，其實高雄市政府也協助中油把旁邊原本的行政區，規劃成循環材料園區，規劃成有商業空間、企業總部大樓，但是目前中油的評估還是很牛步。","我來舉高雄市現在最……人家說的蛋黃區目前有三個大案子正在進行，也就是企業總部大樓正在進行，高雄市的京城集團在蓋地上32層的商辦，總樓地板面積5萬多坪；高雄義聯集團的義享天地B館在蓋地上29層，也有商業空間，總樓地板面積超過4萬坪；還有高雄著名的BOT地上權案，富邦在蓋47樓，總樓地板面積超過4萬7,000坪，商業空間超過4萬7,000坪。請問中油新材料循環園區的南部企業總部大樓目前的進度是什麼？部長，請你說明，也請你可以加速。"],["王部長美花：謝謝，確實高雄市政府也希望在那邊做一個非常好的整體規劃，坦白講，中油公司也去尋找了相關的保險公司能夠來共同開發，確實都還在洽談當中。"],["李委員柏毅：積極處理。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["主席：謝謝李委員柏毅的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","報告院會，上午質詢到此為止，我們下午2點30分繼續開會，進行質詢，現在休息，謝謝。","休息（12時7分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":15,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-3","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-01"],"gazette_id":"1130501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1130501_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.622218750000002,"end":24.668468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":25.410968750000002,"end":25.883468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":27.01409375,"end":30.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":32.38034375,"end":32.751593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":34.35471875,"end":39.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.080343750000004,"end":35.704718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.45971875,"end":38.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.06284375,"end":39.079718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":39.58596875,"end":39.940343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.27784375,"end":44.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":42.58971875,"end":43.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":44.564093750000005,"end":47.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":47.23034375,"end":51.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":52.12409375,"end":53.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":53.845343750000005,"end":55.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":56.08971875,"end":60.713468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":61.08471875,"end":64.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.16909375,"end":61.337843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":64.52721875,"end":65.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":65.70846875000001,"end":68.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":69.16784375,"end":75.2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AIoT園區那沿林雅區、山明區到仁武它會貫穿到一些醫療的醫療的院所包含長庚醫院"},{"start":336.031,"end":364.327,"text":"他也經過高雄醫學院我們希望捷運紫縣未來從捷運黃線的Y9站從高雄醫學院往民族路往北可以連到高雄榮總再往西到左營高鐵再沿左營高鐵進入右昌社區進入高雄大學地區再進入橋頭科學園區往右延伸以前的這個高雄學園線目前這個可行性評估"},{"start":365.209,"end":380.723,"text":"我們已經跟交通部有爭取到可能性評估的經費請王國才部長回應這一個可行性評估的報告什麼時候出來報告出來之後行政院跟高雄市政府的合作我們希望可以拼在4年內跟捷運黃線一樣"},{"start":381.864,"end":406.747,"text":"可以動工。來請王部長來說明經過委員和以前劉少康委員的爭取當時我們大概1680萬補可行性就像你這裡講的他是在6月才完成可行性報告這是高雄市政府在做那他提出來以後我們會加速按照我們捷運建設的這個來審查但是有沒有辦法追到黃線我覺得蠻困難的黃線已經動工了"},{"start":408.508,"end":437.715,"text":"我意思是說4到5年內黃線是4到5年內動工可行性評估通過之後4到5年內動工這沒有你這一個就是因為我們現在捷運都是地方可行性中和各位要到施工的地方我們如果有行政程序要縮短我們來縮短那我們跟施政委員一起合作讓他加速第二題有關台鐵立體化台鐵立體化在左營跟南梓其實是非常大的一個課題這個南梓百慕達這個是全台灣最出名的"},{"start":438.26,"end":455.99,"text":"怎麼樣解決南子百慕達包含有通勤的功能,剛好也在台積電它這個園區裡面,它會有台鐵的經過。如果台鐵的立體化或者是不管是地下或者是高架,它其實同時會解決南子高架橋的問題。"},{"start":460.202,"end":480.366,"text":"在這邊也要提出來在陳院長的任內其實也已經提出台鐵立體化的這個可行性報告我們也希望這個可行性報告的時程可以跟我們所有高雄的知名朋友來報告什麼時候可以完成什麼時候可以施工兩個方案差在哪裡到底高價跟地下的方案差在哪裡是不是也可以請"},{"start":482.349,"end":492.522,"text":"我們補了1265萬現在就在做但是他是到明年才會有一個可行性報告出來目前他的確是從高價跟地下來討論"},{"start":496.359,"end":520.864,"text":"總數我不知道是應該你寫這裡168億跟568億 高價可能是168億 地下的話可能會超過576億而且地下可能還會評估到可能經過這個TSMC的園區裡面 這個可能還要做相關進一步的評估跟說明他裡面大概會再加兩個通勤車站 我有稍微看過他們的這個報告但是還沒有完整"},{"start":521.364,"end":550.551,"text":"在明年的這個明年初會提出來那同樣因為高雄鐵路地下化的這個軌道已經都下地很久了107就下地了所以我想說北沿的部分是可以開始動了可以開始動但是就是如果這個定案出來我們其實跟我們加速審查加速審查是好謝謝第三題男子交流道的引道要直接進入到這個男子產業園區裡面為什麼現在整個台南跟高雄"},{"start":552.155,"end":573.441,"text":"國道一號的車流量已經非常非常大。未來高雄的這個男子產業園區的台積電園區跟臺南的整個科技產業園區會形成一個聚落。到時候交通用量會更大。再加上左營跟男子的這個市區的道路我們勢必需要一條交流道引道可以進入園區。請問這一條引道的進度跟經費"},{"start":578.012,"end":578.432,"text":"委員﹚李柏毅"},{"start":602.485,"end":616.372,"text":"這個到我們完工到台積電可能園區開始有工程師進駐還有兩三年的空窗期所以我們還是要加緊所有的這些速度在這邊也感謝內政部雲建署在新台17線從2017年趕快的從橋頭科學園區旁邊的這個橋頭進入南梓進入左雲"},{"start":624.386,"end":645.193,"text":"目前的進度包含南段也已經跟國防部也感謝國防部這邊有給予相關的協調方案可以順利讓這一條路可以動工之外我們期待這一條路在2026年也可以動工完成那請內政部林厚昌部長也可以對新台17線這一條路來做一個說明"},{"start":647.17,"end":675.041,"text":"新台17縣的部分北段的現在已經完工而且通車那南1段的部分去年動工那南2段的部分這個預計在今年4月會上網招標那這兩個部分都是預計在115年底完工那南3段的部分現在正在進行規劃跟進展部長我打斷一下我先請王部長先回座我想要在這邊在林佑昌部長在說明這一段的時候我想要邀請國防部邱部長"},{"start":675.762,"end":700.803,"text":"可以上來對這一個目前營建署目前內政部跟國防部跟高雄市政府的這一條方案國防部目前的狀況有沒有完全給予同意那對於接下來內政部跟高雄市政府的一個方案這個動工國防部有沒有相關還需要行政院這邊來配合跟支持的地方"},{"start":701.704,"end":726.818,"text":"所謂委員報告,對我們志願共同推動,我很感激吳政務委員從中在做協調。高雄市政府也出了很多力,但我們軍方也很配合,直到目前為止哪一條路該破壞或讓出來的,對我們作為很好的協調規劃。那麼高雄市政府在這個推動的工作當中,可能有一個地方還是希望我們軍方能夠多支援一點,但我們軍方要支援的話有一個條件,"},{"start":727.618,"end":729.539,"text":"在這邊也跟部長說明,我在擔任市議員的期間,也就是去年的事情還跟市政府講"},{"start":743.357,"end":764.248,"text":"這個中海門要往內移,國防部願意同意,這個我們真的要感謝國防部之外,待拆待建的事情呢,高雄市政府也願意來出列相當的經費。那看國防部這邊有什麼需求,我們趕快把這個中海門往內移,讓未來這條新台17線以及很重要的"},{"start":764.721,"end":792.054,"text":"我們海軍總醫院他可以進化成社區醫院服務到社區的民眾所以這一方面我也要請院長這邊海軍總醫院未來這個醫療量能的提升以及國防部這個他的這個所有的哨口內移的這件事情配合新台旗17線的這一個建設我們希望可以完全來支持國防部讓內政部國防部高雄市政府可以促成一條"},{"start":792.918,"end":795.259,"text":"最後從2016年到2024年整個蔡英文政府整個行政院團隊"},{"start":819.377,"end":819.537,"text":"拜訪經濟部王美花"},{"start":839.861,"end":864.788,"text":"在2016年2015年中油這個場區停產之前在2016年政黨剛剛輪替的那一段時間其實中油公司提出來中油土屋的整治的期間是17年那到當然這個蔡英文政府到2020年之後我們用3年的時間把這個土屋整治完成"},{"start":866.209,"end":893.704,"text":"完成這個圖之外其實高雄市政府也協助中油把旁邊原本的行政區規劃成循環材料園區規劃成有商業空間有企業總部大樓但是目前中油的評估還是很牛步我來舉高雄市現在最人家說淡黃區目前有三個大案子正在進行也就是企業總部大樓正在進行高雄市的金城集團"},{"start":894.636,"end":919.121,"text":"他在蓋地上32層的這個商辦總樓地板面積5萬多坪高雄的藝聯集團他在異想天地的V館他在蓋地上29層他也有商業空間總樓地板面積超過4萬坪還有高雄著名的這個VOT這個地上全案富邦總樓地47樓總樓地板面積超過4萬7千坪"},{"start":923.16,"end":944.639,"text":"商業空間超過4萬7千坪。中油新材料循環園區的南部企業總部大樓目前的進度是什麼?部長請你說明也請你可以加速。謝謝那確實高雄市政府也希望那邊做一個非常好的整體規劃那坦白講中油公司也去尋找一些相關"},{"start":955.072,"end":963.849,"text":"謝謝李委員柏毅的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。現在報告委員會上午質詢到此為止。我們下午2點30分"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}