{"error":false,"id":["149205"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149205,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149205","日期":"2024-03-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-04T09:44:47+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-04T09:57:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:49","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddde9c277d39b4c4cea4df0e2384efaf28bf8ba9b0039caa7a6bdd561b1fcf353985ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"丁學忠","委員發言時間":"09:44:47 - 09:57:36","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請海洋委員會主任委員、大陸委員會主任委員、國防部及海軍司令部參謀長就「金門撞船案:翻船執法過程及後續處理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":150,"blocks":[["丁委員學忠：（9時44分）感謝我們的主席總召、感謝各位立委同仁、感謝邱主委、管主委，以及我們海巡署各位長官。今天在這裡用臺語講也沒關係吧？我們雲林鄉下來的。要請問管主委，海委會的公文處理，全部是透過臉書聯繫嗎？是這樣嗎？"],["主席：丁委員，你是要邀請管主委嗎？"],["丁委員學忠：是。"],["主席：好，我們有請管主委，謝謝。"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員好。"],["丁委員學忠：請問管主委，我們現在海委會的公文處理，全部都是透過臉書嗎？你的私人臉書嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，我瞭解你想要質疑我哪一件事情，讓我向委員報告，好不好？其實那天是有兩部分，一部分是在外面接受電視臺訪問的時候，我有很明確表達我接受立法院的監督，這是做政務官的本質，我是這樣回答，進去裡面之後……"],["丁委員學忠：好，為什麼金門撞船的這個事件，從頭到尾都只能在臉書上面看到而已？"],["管主任委員碧玲：因為這個名稱，在海巡的部分有改，我必須要出來說明。"],["丁委員學忠：還有一項，這個名稱你不認同，你是不是要透過我們召委來協調才對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：這點我向委員報告，我確實瞭解，對召委要有尊重。"],["丁委員學忠：對。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我事後對外都已經有說了，在跟海巡說之前，我對外就有說了。"],["丁委員學忠：你對外有說，這樣……"],["管主任委員碧玲：雖然這對召委很失禮，但這是海巡不能涉入的部分。"],["丁委員學忠：主委、主委、主委……"],["管主任委員碧玲：海巡署不能涉入的部分，我需要彰顯一個價值。"],["丁委員學忠：我知道、我知道。好，沒關係，主委，你剛才說你對外都有公開了。"],["管主任委員碧玲：有，我有公開，我也有跟召委報告說我有對外公開。"],["丁委員學忠：但是你對外公開的部分，我們各位委員都不是看得很清楚。"],["管主任委員碧玲：有啦，都有報導耶！三立有報導，風傳媒也有報導，都有報。"],["丁委員學忠：我沒什麼看到，也看得不是很清楚，本席在這裡要拜託管主委，我拜託你，為了我們委員會的和諧……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我瞭解，所以我有講……"],["丁委員學忠：你是不是可以在這裡公開向所有的媒體、向我們召委、向我們所有的立法委員道歉，這樣可不可以？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我已經都完全表達，召委也已經接受「尚祈諒察」，也都已經公開，但是我要跟委員報告……"],["丁委員學忠：你只有跟召委道歉，不用跟我們這些委員道歉？"],["管主任委員碧玲：都已經公開，所有的媒體都報導了。"],["丁委員學忠：對啊，不用跟我們這些委員道歉嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：感謝委員的指導，這件事情召委也有接受所謂的「尚祈諒察」，所以召委誤解，說「尚祈諒察」，我們怎麼會去交換？已經接受了不交換的問題。"],["主席：不好意思，主委，我必須要先說明一下，既然問到了這個問題，請兩位聽我說明一下。因為管碧玲女士、主委，他是用「管碧玲敬上」，然後我也是用我個人──高金素梅回他，高金素梅身為立法委員其中之一，我能夠體察、諒解，但是對於其他的委員，我並不能夠替他們回復是不是要原諒您這樣的作為，以上回應。謝謝。"],["丁委員學忠：所以主委你跟我們召委道歉，這是你們兩個個人的事情而已，主委你應該聽懂了？"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，海巡署這件事情如果被說成是撞船的事件，就好比中國……"],["丁委員學忠：撞船的事件是海巡署自己提標題出來，不是我們去取「撞船的事件」。"],["管主任委員碧玲：海巡的立場，我必須捍衛。我願意接受指責，我已經說過，我願意接受指責，這是我必須承受的。"],["丁委員學忠：對啊！主委，所以我認為你可能還沒有去面對問題，也還沒有來看要怎麼解決問題。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我有面對、我有面對。"],["丁委員學忠：你只是針對這個標題要來爭論到底。"],["管主任委員碧玲：很重要啊！非常重要啊！"],["丁委員學忠：很重要！這個標題不是我們提的，這個標題是海巡署提的耶！海巡署提出來的。"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有、不是，兩船的碰撞跟撞船事件又完全不一樣喔！這在海巡的新聞稿有說明。"],["丁委員學忠：你有沒有辦法拿到發生時的影片？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我請署長來說明一下好嗎？"],["丁委員學忠：我現在要知道你有沒有辦法拿到發生時的影片？有辦法嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，發生時的影片，海巡署已經一再對外表達過歉意，因為這次根據海巡署的報告，據我們所瞭解的，這一次……"],["丁委員學忠：在我們鄉下，一個小警員在執法，本身自己都有配戴一個密錄器。"],["管主任委員碧玲：有，在他們船上也有，他們船上有V8。"],["丁委員學忠：尤其我們海巡署面對的是國際問題，針對大陸船，這是國際問題，為什麼我們的設備沒有密錄器？我覺得這有點怪怪的。"],["管主任委員碧玲：這是海巡執法的問題。"],["丁委員學忠：對啊！這我覺得怪怪的，海巡執法不可以裝密錄器啊？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我跟委員報告，那天這艘船的配備就是一臺V8，那天這艘船並不是接到這個案子出去沒有帶密錄器，那天這艘船是已經在海上了，在海上接到通知後，我們海巡過去，沒有用密錄器……"],["丁委員學忠：好，我相信海巡署的各位長官你們都非常瞭解，在執法的過程中難免有可能會發生一些糾紛事件，像我剛才講的，警員為了要自保，他隨身都會配戴密錄器，但是警察是對我們鄉鎮的一個長輩而已，他們就都有配戴密錄器；我們海巡署面對的是我們所謂的敵對國，有可能發生什麼樣的……我們海巡署的官員竟然沒有辦法有一個影片的證據，來呈報給我們的上級單位，讓我們的上級單位可以掌握那個情況……"],["管主任委員碧玲：這點已經有檢討。"],["丁委員學忠：我覺得這是太誇張了，你們一年預算那麼多，照理說那些設備都一定要齊全才對啊！照理說是不是要這樣？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，海巡所需要經費跟所需要解決的問題，我來了之後一項一項一直解決，包括密錄器的部分……"],["丁委員學忠：你來多久了？你來多久了？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我來1年多……"],["丁委員學忠：你有解決了什麼？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我向委員報告，我們需要90億來修理船，委員你有了解嗎？"],["丁委員學忠：90億修理船……"],["管主任委員碧玲：要90億修理船，是我來之後解決的。"],["丁委員學忠：船有修理好嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：現在已經有預算了，拿到90億的預算要來修理船，今年就有十幾億要修理船，全部修理也是……"],["丁委員學忠：沒有，我們現在說現實面的東西，現在是在說現實面，說這個撞船事件，我們現在是在討論撞船事件……"],["管主任委員碧玲：不是，你問我說設備的問題……"],["丁委員學忠：我們要知道撞船事件的真相。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我一項一項跟委員報告嘛！"],["丁委員學忠：我們要知道真相啦！"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["丁委員學忠：我們要知道真相，我絕對全力支持我們海巡署的執法，我絕對全力支持他們……"],["管主任委員碧玲：這一次在執法上面他們的努力……"],["丁委員學忠：但是它的上級機關，我覺得你們沒有支持你們的下屬機關，遇到事情你們把皮球踢給他們！"],["管主任委員碧玲：我一肩扛起到現在，我一肩扛起到現在，我不是一個棄車保帥的人，我永遠在浪頭上面，捍衛執法的正當性。"],["丁委員學忠：對啦！你的一肩扛起給我們的感覺是完全沒有那個誠意要一肩扛起啦！"],["管主任委員碧玲：我尊重委員的看法，但是我做什麼事情棄車保帥？"],["丁委員學忠：一肩扛起就是我要和我的人、我的員工，他們所發生什麼事情，我做主官，我是要出來幫他們瞭解事情之後，必須要向大眾說明清楚，不是說……","欸！好歹這裡也是一個國會、一個委員會，我們的召委批出來的議題，竟然你一個主委自己有辦法擅自給它竄改，藐視國會！你難道不用下臺來負責嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，金門撞船事件真的一直到現在我接受指正……"],["丁委員學忠：我不要說撞船事件，我不要說撞船事件……"],["管主任委員碧玲：這本來就是撞船事件……所以我有改……"],["丁委員學忠：我現在要講你對國會的態度，我要說你對國會的態度，我不要說撞船事件！"],["管主任委員碧玲：對於召委的這個部分，我已經有公開表達……"],["丁委員學忠：但是發生的經過是怎麼樣？我都知道海巡署他們都很有誠意要處理這些工作，我都知道他們很有誠意在處理這些工作，我現在要來針對你自己竄改我們這個專案報告的題目！"],["管主任委員碧玲：這個報告是海巡署呈給我的報告，不是我竄改，我支持海巡。"],["丁委員學忠：那個臉書是誰發的？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我支持海巡。"],["丁委員學忠：那個臉書是誰發的？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我支持海巡這樣改題目，因為他們無法接受這個叫做撞船事件……"],["丁委員學忠：那是海巡要替你擔這個責任！你把這個責任給海巡擔！"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有。"],["丁委員學忠：這一看大家也知道，這裡的委員都是選舉出來的耶！"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有，我替他們擔，我需要替他們擔，我一定要支持他們，這是一個取締事件，不是他們去撞別人或是被別人撞，我們不偏不倚，這不是一個撞船事件。"],["丁委員學忠：所以主委，從頭到尾是不是撞船事件你們自己去調查！"],["管主任委員碧玲：碰撞和撞船是不一樣的。"],["丁委員學忠：你當場跟這些委員、跟我們召委道歉！"],["管主任委員碧玲：我所有都公開了，我願意受指責，而且一路受指責……"],["丁委員學忠：所以你就是這麼驕傲就對了啦！"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有驕傲，我誠心誠意、我必須……"],["丁委員學忠：就是驕傲，你用一黨獨大的態度來處理這屆的國會，是要繼續這樣嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：請委員你瞭解，請支持海巡……"],["丁委員學忠：我全力支持海巡，你不要模糊焦點！"],["管主任委員碧玲：如果真的支持海巡，請支持海巡改名……"],["丁委員學忠：你個人的問題，你不要模糊焦點！"],["管主任委員碧玲：如果真的支持海巡，請支持海巡改名……"],["丁委員學忠：你不要把海巡的辛苦來當作你的理由！"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有、沒有……"],["丁委員學忠：這樣好不好……"],["管主任委員碧玲：海巡的改名需要你支持，我真的支持海巡，拜託請支持海巡……"],["丁委員學忠：大家各位先進在這裡，我們希望的就是我們管主委對於自行竄改專案報告的這個題目，我們要求他在國會跟召委、跟所有現場的立委道歉！我們要求這樣而已，其他裡面這些內容我不說了，我只有要求這樣而已！"],["管主任委員碧玲：我尊重委員，但是我所有應該表達的，我已經都充分表達了，感謝。"],["丁委員學忠：所以你的表達就是一向這麼傲慢。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我真的為了海巡的立場，要拜託……"],["丁委員學忠：非常傲慢的表達方式啦！"],["管主任委員碧玲：我非常謙虛，拜託所有的委員支持海巡。"],["丁委員學忠：怎麼看都看不出你的謙虛啦！"],["管主任委員碧玲：我尊重委員。"],["丁委員學忠：你如果是真的謙虛，你不是用這個態度來面對。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我必須要用這個態度……"],["丁委員學忠：做錯事情就來跟大會道歉，你身為行政單位竟然做不到這樣的事情！讓我們這些監督單位……"],["管主任委員碧玲：包括我、包括海巡，都已經有表達對於召委抱歉的部分……"],["丁委員學忠：你說什麼？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我願意受指責，也一路受指責，到此時還正在受指責，一切就是這樣，我到現在還在受指責，我願意承受。"],["丁委員學忠：好啦！你們的網軍都把你們保護得很好，你完全都沒有被指責到……"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有網軍，就是我自己的臉書而已。"],["丁委員學忠：你們的網軍都把你們講得跟神一樣！"],["管主任委員碧玲：所有的委員，如果大家支持海巡，就請大家支持海巡改名……"],["丁委員學忠：你現在已經變神了，你自己有辦法在臉書竄改專案報告的這個題目……"],["管主任委員碧玲：所以我已經受指責。"],["丁委員學忠：說你沒有接受我們召委所提出來的題目，你就已經變成一尊神了，網軍已經把你捧到變成一尊神了，看什麼時候你要蓋廟，我們也要來拜一下。","好，就這樣，感謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝丁學忠委員的質詢，也謝謝主委的回應。","我在這邊再重複地宣布一下，我們今天的專案名稱是「金門撞船案：翻船執法過程及後續處理」，那麼當時會排這個名稱，我覺得撞船其實是事實，檢察官也好、海巡署也好，你們自己都認為它是事實，也是非常中性的名詞，因此剛剛我們會議也已經宣讀了是用這個名稱，好不好？以上我做這樣子的補充。","繼續我們請許宇甄委員做詢答，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":328,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-2","speakers":["高金素梅","傅崐萁","陳雪生","王美惠","洪孟楷","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","麥玉珍","徐欣瑩","丁學忠","許宇甄","張智倫","黃建賓","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","吳琪銘","沈伯洋","羅智強","賴士葆","吳沛憶","李坤城","鄭天財Sra 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金門撞船執法真的一直到現在我不會說撞船執法我不會說撞船執法我只要我從日地國會的台頭我會跟日地國會的台頭我會跟撞船執法但是我先經過怎樣我們海水署大家都知道我都知道人家生意都要處理這些的工作我都知道人家生意要處理這些的工作我只要要來講對說"},{"start":563.763,"end":581.987,"text":"你自己篡改我們這個專案報告的這個題目這個報告是海巡署呈給我的報告不是我篡改我支持海巡我支持海巡我支持海巡我支持海巡這樣改題目因為他們無法提供答案因為他們無法提供答案因為他們無法提供答案因為他們無法提供答案因為他們無法提供答案"},{"start":588.308,"end":592.249,"text":"我必須提醒,這次議員是選舉主任,這次選舉主任不是去攻龍,不是去轟龍,這不是一個撞船事件主委,請主席想撞船事件,你們自己去挑戰,不然議員你當場把這個議員招委給誰?"},{"start":606.713,"end":610.078,"text":"我所有都公開了,我願意受指責,而且一路受指責"},{"start":622.657,"end":622.857,"text":"丁學忠議員"},{"start":638.451,"end":644.795,"text":"我們希望的就是我們這個管組委自行篡改專案報告的這個題目,我們要求他當局的,把我們遭遇的,把我們遭遇的陷入的地位,都給他犧牲的!我們要求這樣而已!"},{"start":666.823,"end":686.056,"text":"其他人來這裡的內容我又要說嗎?我跟你們流氣如何?我尊重委員但是我所有應該表達的我已經都充分表達感謝所以你的表達就是一種這麼傲慢非常傲慢的表達方式我非常高興拜託所有委員安安靜靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安靜安"},{"start":695.814,"end":700.56,"text":"我必須回答的太多我必須回答的太多我必須回答的太多我必須回答的太多我必須回答的太多"},{"start":711.715,"end":715.497,"text":"我到現在還在受指責,我願意承受。你現在已經犯刑了,你已經犯刑了,你自己有我在臉書,坐在你的主席位,自己在臉書,"},{"start":740.572,"end":741.732,"text":"謝謝丁學忠的質詢也謝謝主委"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}