{"error":false,"id":["149206"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149206,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149206","日期":"2024-03-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-04T09:58:17+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-04T10:12:28+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:11","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2dddc62efbc9a00753c34df0e2384efaf28bf8ba9b0039caa7a69ec90fcc29cae8b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"09:58:17 - 10:12:28","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請海洋委員會主任委員、大陸委員會主任委員、國防部及海軍司令部參謀長就「金門撞船案:翻船執法過程及後續處理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":282,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（9時58分）主席、各位同仁、各位官員，大家早。主席是不是請海委會管碧玲主委跟陸委會邱太三主委？"],["主席：好，我們請管主委、邱主委，謝謝。"],["許委員宇甄：管主委還有邱主委早。"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：在這邊詢問之前，我要先表達就是針對管主委對於我們這一次專題報告的名稱「金門撞船案：翻船執法過程及後續處理」，我想管主委其實有很多的管道可以跟召委這邊溝通，如果您對這樣的名稱是有意見的，事實上可以直接跟召委溝通，可是管主委您選擇了一個最藐視國會的方法，就是在臉書直接嗆聲，而且更改我們報告的名稱，所以這樣子藐視國會、傲慢無理，我想今天大家所看到的就是這樣。剛剛丁學忠委員一直請管主委能夠對我們所有的委員、尤其是內政委員會道歉，但管主委還是沒有做道歉這樣的動作，我是不曉得說管主委他心裡想的是不是認為這樣做是對的？而藐視國會也是應該的？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，沒有藐視國會……"],["許委員宇甄：我還沒有請您回答，不好意思，謝謝。","所以在詢答前，本席也要強調，我絕對支持海巡署守護海域，捍衛疆土，取締違法進入禁止海域者，依法行政是最基本的，所以海巡署的同仁執行守護海域，執行公權力的行為是值得嘉許的。只是這一次海巡署在執法的取締過程中可能會有些意外，這也不是我方所願，以這一次的船舶撞船的碰撞意外為例，意外發生後海巡署2月14號、15號連續兩天的新聞稿都誤植案發的時間，到底這是誠實的錯誤還是刻意的隱匿？如果刻意的隱匿就是危機處理時候的大事，還是這是組織基層自保的一個慣例呢？所以發生問題時，我們應該是要面對問題，而不是閃躲、推諉、隱匿，面對各界質疑的時候，更應該拿出證據回擊，可惜的是臺灣號稱科技島，我們卻拿不出錄影的資料作為證據反擊質疑。海巡署一年有編列257億的預算，密錄器也不過就是短短的2,500萬，我不懂為什麼卻不能買密錄設備，而且也沒有辦法在我們執法的船舶上建置360度的影像錄影？兩岸的共打機制在這一次是不是有發揮效果，未來要如何避免這種狀況再次發生，這都是本席今天要探討的。","所以本席要請教管主委，為什麼海巡署在取締大陸三無船舶時，造成漁民落海，導致兩死兩傷的悲劇？金門地檢署介入調查的時候已經初步釐清，海委會海巡署在查緝的過程中確實有發生船對船的碰撞……"],["管主任委員碧玲：但是碰撞跟翻覆之間的因果並沒有……"],["許委員宇甄：勘驗肇事的船隻也有發現……"],["管主任委員碧玲：並沒有說是這樣……"],["許委員宇甄：也有發生碰撞的痕跡。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我們現在要釐清的問題應該是海巡署在執法時候的追撞所導致的，還是大陸漁船閃避自撞所導致的？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告……"],["許委員宇甄：管主委先不用急，我待會兒給你說明。或是雙方追逐而引起的擦撞，究竟是哪一種撞船，導致於船翻覆？為什麼海委會、海巡署一開始都不說，一直到大陸的漁民被遣返回大陸後，他們說是我方取締追撞，導致這樣大的風波之後才開始解釋，但是又拿不出相對應的影像證據？所以這幾個問題請管主委簡短回答。"],["管主任委員碧玲：第一個，海巡署不可能隱匿這件事，包括是不是有碰撞，包括有沒有錄影帶，他們沒有要隱匿，第一時間他們就跟檢調做了全部的報告，這是一個，另外就是，這兩件事情是絕對不可能隱匿得住的。現在是第一時間的說明的問題，第一時間的說明社會溝通確實有不足，那我所瞭解，以海巡署的語言跟社會的語言……"],["許委員宇甄：一般我們都知道，如果是事實的話……"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告……"],["許委員宇甄：應該就不用一而再、再而三地更改，如果是事實的話。所以本席並……"],["管主任委員碧玲：社會溝通是如此……"],["許委員宇甄：不是在說海巡署有這樣的問題，而是覺得……"],["管主任委員碧玲：但是海巡第一時間為什麼沒有說碰撞……"],["許委員宇甄：如果是事實的話，是不是在第一時間就應該要公開說明？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是不是讓我說明，或者是讓署長來說明，好嗎？為什麼第一時間沒有說碰撞，因為以海巡署的語言而言，你們不願意請署長上台嘛……"],["主席：請問一下許宇甄委員，是要管主委還是要……"],["許委員宇甄：我請管主委回答。"],["主席：好，請管主委回答就好，謝謝。"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒關係，我就是一肩承擔。以海巡署的語言，登檢，跟委員報告，今天本來我們希望能夠播一個登檢的影片給大家看，但是召委沒有允許，登檢這二個字對海巡署來講，登檢這二個字……"],["許委員宇甄：主委，其實我們今天請海委會來報告，就是要讓你們說清事情的真相……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["許委員宇甄：可是我們在這裡看到的報告完全跟你們記者會的一模一樣，完全看不到真相。"],["管主任委員碧玲：真相必須要檢察官才能夠釐清。"],["許委員宇甄：那我要繼續詢問下去。"],["管主任委員碧玲：登檢的本身就是一個持續調整位置，持續碰觸的過程。"],["許委員宇甄：是不是可以不要占用我的時間？我只剩4分24秒。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["主席：請尊重一下委員。"],["許委員宇甄：我再請教一下，監察院在112年7月18日就提出調查報告，內容也指出偵搜設備、人員的配置都明顯不足，要求海防岸巡整體的規劃、人員的配置跟……"],["管主任委員碧玲：當天密錄器是夠的……"],["許委員宇甄：是否善……"],["管主任委員碧玲：當天密錄器是夠的……"],["許委員宇甄：應該釐清改進。"],["管主任委員碧玲：整體密錄器我們會補充。"],["許委員宇甄：管主委，等一下。你先不要急，我等一下會給你說明。海巡署海委會對於這個設備不足的問題，為什麼在當時去年7月18日提出這樣的調查報告的時候，您不即刻改善？如果去年有針對這個問題改善，今天海巡署取締所造成的意外就能夠迅速地釐清責任，也不必變成各說各話的難堪局面。所以在督導管理……"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員是不是讓我們情報組組長說明？"],["許委員宇甄：責任重大，今天會造成這樣的局面，就是你未能積極改善設備……"],["管主任委員碧玲：不咡說明……"],["許委員宇甄：不足所造成這次的問題。"],["管主任委員碧玲：謝謝委員。"],["許委員宇甄：所以管主委選擇的是在臉書指責召委排案，不自我檢討？"],["管主任委員碧玲：那是要平衡前面所受媒體訪問……"],["許委員宇甄：不好意思，管主委……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我接受指責，已經一再地表達。"],["許委員宇甄：但是你沒有跟我們道歉喔！","另外我再請教一下管主委、邱主委，針對大陸漁船越界進入金門禁制區的情況，我們有沒有透過兩岸共打機制的聯繫機制，請求大陸方面強化兩岸協同執法的質量跟密度？"],["管主任委員碧玲：其實在兩岸協同執法的時候，共同打擊三無船過去都有案例，這個本來就是兩岸的共識。兩岸對於三無船的取締，共識立場是一致的，所以這一次我們也一再地呼籲中國，我們……"],["許委員宇甄：那請問一下，你可不可以提供本席聯繫的時間跟對岸回覆的時間？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們兩岸共打，我會請海巡署去瞭解這個部分是不是機密的數字，如果不是的話，當然一定提供給委員。兩岸共打之下的協同執法，我們每一年都在進行。"],["許委員宇甄：請提供聯繫的時間跟對岸回覆的時間，好嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：每一年都在進行，好不好？"],["許委員宇甄：如果沒有的話，那我是不是先請邱主委？"],["管主任委員碧玲：請署長回答能不能提供。"],["許委員宇甄：邱主委先說明一下。針對兩岸共打的機制，是不是有保持聯繫？"],["主席：我們請邱主委回答，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員太三：謝謝主席。報告委員，兩岸共打基本上主管機關是法務部的國兩司，他們在主責，所以我相信法務部都會有一些相關的資料，我大概可以跟委員報告，在過去這7、8年就共打的部分，他幫我們送回來大概四十幾位通緝犯，那我們也幫他們送回去大概十二、三位通緝犯，所以基本上共打的機制還是有在運作，不至於……"],["許委員宇甄：主委，我是指這一次的案件。"],["邱主任委員太三：不，我現在講，你剛剛說兩岸有共打，到底……"],["許委員宇甄：對，我說以這次的案件，有沒有啟動兩岸共打機制？"],["邱主任委員太三：這個部分是因為海巡，他們有海巡的機制，恐怕署長會比我瞭解。"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，海巡署兩岸協同執法的對口，這次事件第一時間發生就有跟對方聯繫，我們請署長說明。"],["許委員宇甄：不用，因為我只剩1分鐘，我要繼續請教。如果我們現在雙方的溝通沒有結果，陸方仍堅持在我國所設置的禁限制海域巡航，那請問海巡署強制的作法是什麼？"],["管主任委員碧玲：請海巡署……"],["許委員宇甄：陸方現在可以用行政船測試，未來可能換成武裝船，所以除了海警的巡邏，也可以是海軍的戒護。請問針對大陸不同的船舶的因應作法為何？請簡短回應。"],["周副主任委員美伍：非常謝謝委員，我剛剛想跟委員先報告……"],["主席：有請署長。"],["周副主任委員美伍：先跟委員回報一個數據，我把這個數據給你，你就知道我所講的是事實還是非事實。至於兩岸共同打擊犯罪，跟協同……"],["許委員宇甄：署長，請您簡短回答，好嗎？因為我只剩13秒了。"],["周副主任委員美伍：是，我只是報告個數字。協同執法，光是去（112）年，中方跟我方就已經舉行了49次……"],["許委員宇甄：我剛剛有提，針對這一次、大陸不同船舶的因應作法是什麼？"],["周副主任委員美伍：也就是說，我們大概每個月都要執行4次……"],["許委員宇甄：署長，你事後可以提出……"],["周副主任委員美伍：協同執法。"],["許委員宇甄：我想再請教的是，如果將來再有大陸漁船到我方的禁制海域作業的話，海巡署要再去衝撞對方嗎？"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們不可能衝撞。"],["許委員宇甄：這樣的話，我們要怎麼……"],["周副主任委員美伍：為什麼我們不贊成用衝撞……"],["許委員宇甄：我們要怎麼……"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們是在依法執法。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我們要怎麼預防……"],["周副主任委員美伍：因為我們現在是在取締非法，保障合法，這是海巡署每天的日常。"],["許委員宇甄：當然，所以剛剛我一開始就肯定海巡署。"],["周副主任委員美伍：每天都在做的工作。"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝署長。我剛剛先肯定海巡署。"],["周副主任委員美伍：我現在每天都在做這件工作。"],["許委員宇甄：是，謝謝……"],["周副主任委員美伍：但是各位都沒有去強調我們在執法的這個部分。"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝署長。因為我的時間、質詢的關係，那如果你有相關的，因為我知道你的報告非常完整，是不是之後再給我書面報告？"],["主席：好，請署長給質詢委員書面報告。"],["許委員宇甄：所以從這一次的這個撞船事件來看，我們沒有辦法排除未來再有事故發生，或者是兩岸緊張，中美衝突的時候，陸方都可能升高言論的論調對我方施加壓力，在未來陸方很可能不會只用口頭的語詞來否定我方的治理範圍，而是改以實際行動劃定陸方的內海。所以當這個問題出現的時候，請問邱太三主委，陸委會會怎麼面對這個可能發生的……"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：我想委員應該很清楚，剛剛我們各單位也都報告了，我們從來不會挑釁的，但是我們執法一定嚴峻。陸方如果他要採取非理性的作為，我想這就像他們講的，會傷害兩岸人民的感情；第二個，也會侵犯金馬地區漁民的權益，我想這是陸方……"],["許委員宇甄：所以本席在這邊要建議，海巡署應該及早完成我們完善的偵搜設備。"],["邱主任委員太三：對，他們可以精進SOP，我想可以……"],["許委員宇甄：陸委會應該儘速地找對方對談，對話跟交流才是我們應該要做的。"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["許委員宇甄：而且要建立有效的溝通管道，不要到對方已讀不回之後，然後就這樣完全停止我們兩邊的論述。"],["邱主任委員太三：好，感謝委員指教。"],["許委員宇甄：召委，再等1分鐘。","希望能夠降低敵意的螺旋，避免危機的出現。","另外的話，再給我1分鐘可以嗎？好。有關這次兩岸協商的談判代表，我知道臺灣是海巡署的許副署長，據我瞭解，許副署長是海軍中將的官階，所以由這樣高階的中央政府執法官員對上大陸紅十字會顧問，這樣身分位階上的落差完全不對等，所以這有符合過去民進黨一直強調的兩岸事務協商須符合對等的關係嗎？請主委回答。"],["主席：請管主委回答。"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，基於誠信跟基於尊重，這一次代表團我方的名單大家都知道，但是對方的名單我們就是尊重那是紅十字會的代表，至於……"],["許委員宇甄：所以不是兩岸對等的一個狀況嘛？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們都知道這是基於我們的尊重，我們一定就是說這是紅十字會的代表、他們代表家屬來，進一步我們就不便做說明……"],["許委員宇甄：我們還是希望兩岸的協商一定要對等啦！避免……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們不便做說明。到目前為止，我們就是堅持要對等。"],["許委員宇甄：我們應該誠實地面對問題，避免遺憾再次發生。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我覺得要跟管主委說，光是一個專題報告的名稱，你就可以搞成這樣的爭議，所以我在這邊……"],["管主任委員碧玲：這是很不得已，我願意接受指責。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我在這邊奉勸管主委，你是管海委會，不是管海的，不要管太寬了啦！希望可以少一點個人的主觀意識，否則毫無章法，會完全失格。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員的質詢，謝謝！也謝謝官員的答詢，謝謝。","我要說明一下，因為管主委剛剛有說過今天海巡署本來要放一個錄影帶，經我的助理詢問之後，海巡署要放的錄影帶並不是當天撞船事件的錄影帶，而是我們怎麼樣登檢。我想你們這樣的錄影帶在所有的網路都可以搜尋到，所以召委就拒絕你們在這邊浪費時間播放；我正式回應一下。","繼續我們請張智倫委員來質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":328,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-2","speakers":["高金素梅","傅崐萁","陳雪生","王美惠","洪孟楷","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","麥玉珍","徐欣瑩","丁學忠","許宇甄","張智倫","黃建賓","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","吳琪銘","沈伯洋","羅智強","賴士葆","吳沛憶","李坤城","鄭天財Sra 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":"我想今天大家所看到的就是這樣那剛剛我想丁薛忠委員一直請管主委能夠對我們所有的委員尤其是內政委員會道歉但管主委還是沒有做道歉這樣一個動作那我是不是曉得說管主委他心裡想的是不是認為這樣做是對的而藐視國會也是應該的跟委員報告沒有藐視國會我還沒有請您回答不好意思謝謝"},{"start":86.581,"end":103.861,"text":"好,所以呢也是在詢答前本席也要強調我絕對支持海巡署守護海域、捍衛疆土取締違法進入禁止海域者依法行政是最基本的所以海巡署的同仁執行守護海域"},{"start":104.529,"end":122.341,"text":"執行公權力的行為是值得加許的只是這一次海巡署在執法的取締過程中可能會有些意外這也不是我方所願所以這一次的傳播撞船的碰撞的意外為例意外發生後海巡署2月14號、15號連續兩天的新聞稿都誤執案發的時間"},{"start":128.425,"end":143.016,"text":"到底這是誠實的錯誤還是刻意的隱秘?如果刻意的隱秘就是危機處理時候的大事還是這是組織基層自保的一個慣例呢?所以發生問題時我們應該是要面對問題而不是閃躲、推諉、隱秘"},{"start":148.496,"end":162.008,"text":"面對各界質疑的時候更應該拿出證據回擊可惜的是臺灣號稱科技島我們卻拿不出錄影的這個資料作為證據反擊質疑海巡署一年有編列257億的預算"},{"start":164.79,"end":165.49,"text":"為什麼海巡署在取締大陸三無船舶時"},{"start":194.875,"end":220.815,"text":"造成於民落海導致兩死兩傷的悲劇金門地檢署介入調查的時候已經初步的釐清海委會海巡署在查紀的過程中確實有發生船對船的碰撞看驗造勢的船隻也有發生碰撞的痕跡所以我們現在要釐清的問題應該是海巡署在執法時候的追撞"},{"start":221.741,"end":229.27,"text":"所導致的還是大陸漁船山壁覆撞所導致的會是雙方追逐而引起的擦撞?究竟是哪一種撞船導致漁船翻覆?"},{"start":237.359,"end":237.399,"text":"第一點"},{"start":259.13,"end":278.296,"text":"海巡署不可能隱匿這件事包括說是不是有碰撞包括說有沒有錄影帶他們沒有要隱匿第一時間他們就跟檢調做了全部的報告這個是一個另外就是說這兩件事情是絕對不可能隱匿得住的"},{"start":280.257,"end":280.297,"text":"主席"},{"start":298.353,"end":298.873,"text":"以海巡署的語言"},{"start":328.356,"end":340.645,"text":"登檢委員跟委員報告今天本來我們希望能夠播一個登檢的影片給大家看但是召委沒有允許登檢這兩個字登檢這兩個字對海軍處來講登檢這兩個字是可是我們在這裡看到的報告完全跟你們記者會的一模一樣完全看不到真相"},{"start":350.256,"end":352.818,"text":"編查院在112年7月18日就有提出調查報告．內容也指出徵收設備．人員的配置．"},{"start":372.15,"end":377.458,"text":"都明顯的不足,要求海防暗巡整體的規劃．人員的配置．跟裝備補給．是否應該釐清改進．"},{"start":387.392,"end":414.745,"text":"海委會對於這個設備不足的問題為什麼在當時提出去年7月18號當初這樣的調查報告的時候您不即刻改善如果去年有針對這個問題改善今天海巡署取締所造成的意外就能夠迅速的釐清責任也不必變成各說各話的難堪局面所以在督導管理責任重大今天會造成這樣的局面就是你未能積極改善設備不足所造成的形勢所以叫這次的問題所以"},{"start":418.137,"end":418.817,"text":"委員會主任委員會主席"},{"start":433.363,"end":448.625,"text":"另外我再請教一下管主委、邱主委,針對大陸漁船越界進入金門禁制區的情況,我們有沒有透過兩岸共打機制的聯繫機制,請求大陸方面強化兩岸協同執法的質量跟密度。"},{"start":449.466,"end":461.599,"text":"其實在兩岸協同執法的時候共同打擊三無船過去都有案例這個本來就是兩岸的共識兩岸對於三無船的取締共識立場是一致的請問一下你這邊提供本席聯繫的時間跟對岸回覆的時間"},{"start":466.864,"end":482.709,"text":"我們兩岸共打我會請海巡署去了解這個部分是不是機密的數字如果不是的話當然一定提供給委員兩岸共打兩岸共打之下的協同執法是每年都在進行每年都在進行好不好請署長回答能不能說明一下針對兩岸共打的機制是不是有大多方面的這個"},{"start":491.172,"end":493.234,"text":"兩岸共打基本上主管機關是法務部的國兩司他們在負責這樣的一個主責"},{"start":509.589,"end":524.726,"text":"所以我相信那個防部呢他們大概都會有一些相關的資料可以那我大概可以跟委員報告了大概在過去這七八年呢就共打的部分呢我們大概他幫我們送回來大概40幾位的這個通緝犯"},{"start":526.989,"end":547.235,"text":"那我們也幫他們送回去大概12、3位的通緝犯所以基本上共打的機制還是有在做運作主委我是指這一次的案件這一次的案件不不不我現在講你剛剛講說兩岸的共打對對對我說以這次的案件有沒有啟動兩岸共打機制這個部分是因為海巡他們又有海巡的機制恐怕署長會比我了解"},{"start":548.215,"end":555.578,"text":"登委員報告兩岸協同執法海巡署兩岸協同執法的對口這一次事件第一時間發生就有跟對方聯繫我們請署長說"},{"start":563.069,"end":587.779,"text":"好,如果啦我們現在雙方的溝通沒有結果陸方能堅持在我國所設置的禁限制海域的巡航那請問海巡署強制的做法是什麼陸方現在可以用行政船測試未來可能換成武裝船所以除了海警的巡邏也可以是海軍的戒護所以請問針對大陸不同的船舶的因應做法為何請簡短回應"},{"start":589.64,"end":597.144,"text":"非常謝謝委員我剛剛想跟委員先報告一個數據我把這數據給你你就知道我所講的是事實還非事實至於兩岸共同黨的戰隊跟協同．我只是報告個數字協同執法光是去年112年"},{"start":616.569,"end":623.174,"text":"我剛有個提示針對這次大陸漁船播的工作也就是說我們大概每個月都要執行4次共同的協同執法"},{"start":638.567,"end":639.689,"text":"我們現在是在取締非法、保障合法"},{"start":654.33,"end":659.113,"text":"這是海巡署每天做的工作?每天都在做的工作我現在每天都在做這件工作但是這位都沒有去強調我們在執法的這部分"},{"start":669.198,"end":692.671,"text":"報告非常完整,是不是之後再給我書面報告。所以從這一次的這個撞船事件來看,我們沒有辦法排除未來再有事故發生,或者是兩岸緊張,中美衝突的時候,陸方都可能升高言論的這個論調,對方施加壓力。在未來,陸方很可能不會只用口頭的語詞來否定我方的治理範圍,而是改以實際行動劃定陸方的內海。"},{"start":695.032,"end":712.918,"text":"所以當這個問題出現的時候請問邱戴森主委、陸委會會怎麼面對這可能發生的問題邱主委我想委員應該很清楚剛剛我們各單位也都報告了我們從來不會挑釁的啦但是我們執法一定嚴峻的啦那陸方如果他要採取"},{"start":713.638,"end":713.978,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":740.297,"end":743.58,"text":"有關這一次我們的兩岸協商的談判代表我知道的是我們在臺灣是海巡署的許副署長據我了解許副署長是海軍中將的官階"},{"start":769.819,"end":785.591,"text":"所以由這樣的高階的中央政府的執法官員對上大陸紅十字的顧問這樣身份位階上的落差完全不對等所以這有符合過去民進黨一直強調的兩岸事務協商需符合對等的關係嗎?請那個主委回答"},{"start":789.798,"end":809.363,"text":"謝謝關主會回答委員,基於誠信跟基於尊重這一次代表團我方的名單大家都知道但是對方的名單我們就是尊重那是紅十字會的代表至於"},{"start":813.668,"end":834.563,"text":"我們都知道這是基於我們的尊重我們一定就是說這是紅十字會的代表那希望我們還是希望說我們這個兩岸的這個協商一定用這一等那避免不要再存在在城市的輪流運氣避免一旦再次發生所以我覺得要跟管主委這邊說關於一個專題的報告"},{"start":836.664,"end":836.764,"text":"許宇甄委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}