{"error":false,"id":["149226"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149226,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149226","日期":"2024-03-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-04T09:47:26+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-04T09:59:07+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:41","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2dddf1d4384ce3e8b635e0c93a942a018238f8ba9b0039caa7a68e43617b4878f6c55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"09:47:26 - 09:59:07","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月4日及7日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":162,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（9時47分）謝謝主席以及各位先進。有請黃天牧主委。"],["主席：有請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["賴委員士葆：主委早。最近我的服務處接到三則被詐騙的案子，我特別提出來就是因為我看了很難過，他們一輩子的積蓄幾乎就這樣被騙光了，第三個被騙了三千多萬，來了我的服務處6次，我該做的、能做的都做了，包括怎麼樣找刑事警察局、金管會等等的，但是好像到現在為止就是一籌莫展了。","我仔細看一下刑事警察局的統計，去年整年度的被詐騙金額有88億，詐騙案的前三名中，第一個是假投資，占了六成以上；第二個是假網拍；第三個是解除分期付款。這個完全都是金管會可以管得到的、可以幫忙的地方啊！比如現在變成大家透過平臺去join那些所謂的投資，教你怎麼賺錢、加LINE或是加名人、加什麼的，我知道像黃主委也被冒名過了，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：應該有。"],["賴委員士葆：有嘛！還有其他人也被冒名了之類的啊！我就在想，與其讓當事人或者其他的單位、刑事警察局去盯著看，其實你的證交所、你的櫃買中心，人都不少啊！能不能叫他們每天盯著看，可不可以？一有就處理，一有就處理。就現在來看的話，都是金管會的事情。主委，我是在替你當子彈，因為陳情人對我痛罵金管會主委，他也不知道你姓什麼，我還不好意思說你姓黃，他就說金管會都沒在做事情。你看六成都是假投資，交易所的簡總經理與櫃買的陳董事長要不要上來一下？"],["黃主任委員天牧：在他們上來中間我跟您報告……"],["賴委員士葆：好，你報告。"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實這兩個交易所一直有在蒐報，報告中也寫了，從去年3、4月到今年已經有2萬8,000件，但這個平臺還需要跨部會合作，像Google與Meta採實名制，這些都在努力中。"],["賴委員士葆：請兩位長官回答我的問題，有沒有派專人，可能不止一個，可能不止二個，派專人每天盯這些平臺？有沒有？有沒有？先回答這問題。"],["簡總經理立忠：跟委員報告，交易所有專人在做這個……"],["賴委員士葆：有沒有每天盯？"],["簡總經理立忠：有、有。"],["賴委員士葆：有沒有每天出報告？"],["簡總經理立忠：持續發現案子就會移送給檢查局、給主管機關……"],["賴委員士葆：你們上個月移送多少？幾件？"],["簡總經理立忠：到2月29日為止，我的統計是1萬4,000……"],["賴委員士葆：一萬四千多件？"],["簡總經理立忠：對。"],["賴委員士葆：櫃買呢？你蒐了多少？"],["陳董事長永誠：到2月27日是1萬1,634件。"],["賴委員士葆：你們兩個當然是確定、每天都有在看？"],["陳董事長永誠：對。"],["賴委員士葆：有一個一萬多，另一個也一萬多？"],["陳董事長永誠：對。"],["賴委員士葆：請主委回答，我資質駑鈍。移送這麼多，為什麼都沒辦法查出這裡的名堂什麼之類的？為什麼沒有辦法有效阻斷？行政院陳院長喊得很大聲，花了13億，喊打喊殺說要打詐，結果詐越打越多！你看這曲線圖，這是聯合報的曲線圖，你看到，越來越多！件數越來越多啊！沒有效啊！但你們取締了不少。黃主委，詐騙絕對跟金流有關係，絕對跟你的管區有關係，你會不會覺得你少做了一件什麼事？有沒有？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實我們蒐報、報到刑事局之後，重點是要他下架，他要在24小時之內下架！可是下架之後，他又透過其他管道再上來！所以查完之後，他還會再上來……"],["賴委員士葆：下架不能夠處罰嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：沒有，處罰的前提必須是他不下架，我們才能處罰，他下架就不能處罰，這是法律上的規定。另外一個重點是，將來透過平臺Google與Meta實名制，現在用實名制……"],["賴委員士葆：你可以不可以要求……因為上架的大部分都和投顧有關，投顧也是你管的啊……"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，其實真正的投顧不會做這些事……"],["賴委員士葆：假投顧可以啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：假的……不管是不是投顧，他就是詐欺集團，不是真正的投顧……"],["賴委員士葆：你沒辦法……"],["黃主任委員天牧：6月底會有實名制，將來如果在平臺上廣告，用實名就可以追索。"],["賴委員士葆：我請問你，被詐騙的金額大概可以追回來多少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這要刑事局才有資料。"],["賴委員士葆：我得到的資料是不超過一成，幾乎都血本無歸！是overall！譬如88億最多才追回來8億，而且不知道什麼時候才追得到！碰到這樣的案子真的很難過，當事人都想自殺了，三千多萬！主委，你腦筋很好，再多想一想，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員，我想我們對於……"],["賴委員士葆：有效阻止啦，你這裡扮演很多角色……"],["黃主任委員天牧：數位部……從今年6月開始，這兩個平臺願意用實名制來……"],["賴委員士葆：第二個，我跟你談一下臺股。最近臺股嚇嚇叫，漲到一萬九千多，是不是已經正式進入牛市？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們不太適合去判斷牛市或熊市，我想台股有基本面是事實。"],["賴委員士葆：牛市怎麼判斷？"],["黃主任委員天牧：大概是在一定期間漲……"],["賴委員士葆：20%！但現在不只漲20%了！如果一段時間內不只漲20%，從1萬7,000到1萬9,000就差不多20%了，何況是從1萬5,000、6,000漲到1萬9,000？20%怎麼不是呢？所以你還不敢講牛市？"],["黃主任委員天牧：國際政經情況多變，我們還是要審慎以對。"],["賴委員士葆：基本面很好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是有基本面，我沒有說……"],["賴委員士葆：整體台股的本益比有多少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：21.17倍。"],["賴委員士葆：OK嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我覺得還算穩健，還算穩健。"],["賴委員士葆：美國道瓊的本益比多少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我沒聽清楚。"],["賴委員士葆：美國道瓊的本益比多少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個要請同仁提供一下，多少？24.06。"],["賴委員士葆：所以臺灣本益比不高？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，從這個角度……"],["賴委員士葆：意思就是還可能會漲？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，監理機關不太適合對漲跌有太多的……"],["賴委員士葆：本來就是這樣，本益比低就是要漲，就是這樣。但是你仔細看就會發現，漲幅都是靠AI跟台積電相關的電子族群，其他的族群很少，也就是不夠平均。這讓外界有點擔心我們的資本市場，特別是股票市場扭曲的現象還滿嚴重的！怎麼大家的資金都一窩蜂擠到電子相關產業？有些電子的本益比都很高了，電子公司的本益比都非常高。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員……"],["賴委員士葆：本益比高，風險當然就高啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，您說的是一個事實，可是另外一個事實是：台股30年來的發展中，臺灣證券交易所的市場結構半導體電子就占一半，所以這是反映它的產業結構。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你不敢說後市怎麼樣，但就本益比來說臺灣OK，還不算高，所以是juicy，值得投資，可以吧？我做這結論？"],["黃主任委員天牧：投不投資還是看投資人的決定，就是要注意風險，而且台股有基本面……"],["賴委員士葆：好，最後一題，也是很重要的題目。金融營業稅今年底到期，我們現在是5%，其中3%給財政部，2%進入金融業特別準備金，現在有將近3,500億。金管會對於今年底到期的這個法要怎麼修？有沒有方向？"],["黃主任委員天牧：第一個，這是財政部主管，我們要尊重財政部……"],["賴委員士葆：問你的態度！我問了財政部，財政部說問你！"],["黃主任委員天牧：我的任期到5月19日，所以由下一任主委來回答會比較合適。真的，我不是不願意回答你，我不應該超越我的……"],["賴委員士葆：後面的媒體都笑出來了！好歹你要離開之前做一件大事吧？這件不是大事？這個是大事！"],["黃主任委員天牧：這應該是520後的財政部才能做的事。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有，你的態度非常重要。我找了財政部，財政部告訴我，金管會的態度非常重要。當然，行政院相關政委的態度也很重要……"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，其實我的態度，過去在您垂詢或其他委員垂詢時我有報告過，現在我們跟國際趨勢是不符的，所以希望能夠降低。但原有準備金的部分希望能夠留著。"],["賴委員士葆：準備金已經3,500億了，臺灣現在都已經控制這麼好了，逾放比這麼低，老實講用不太到了，這個多餘了！你的意思我有問出來了，我站了老半天好歹總要問出一個東西。你說調降，降多少可以說嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們希望能夠適度調降，但尊重財政部。"],["賴委員士葆：我知道，但是你的本意很重要。好，謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["主席（賴委員惠員代）：接著請郭國文委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-2","speakers":["郭國文","吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","賴惠員","王鴻薇","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","李彥秀","謝衣鳯","葛如鈞","邱志偉","黃國昌","林楚茵","羅明才","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":269,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相\n關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集\n中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130701_00005"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.09846875000000001,"end":1.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.53284375,"end":2.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.03909375,"end":2.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.544718750000001,"end":6.949718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.793468750000001,"end":8.586593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.700343750000002,"end":13.125968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.880968750000001,"end":16.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.49659375000000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,可不可以?一樓就處理,一樓就處理,現在來看的話,都是金管會的事情啊,讓那個陳青仁去告訴我。"},{"start":137.246,"end":163.22,"text":"主委啊,我踢你當子彈捏,他偷罵這金管會主委,他還不知道你姓什麼,我還不好意思說你姓黃。嗯,他就說金管會都沒你做事,你看六成都是假投資。我們交易所的金總經理跟櫃馬的陳董事長要不要上來一下。"},{"start":165.066,"end":186.391,"text":"我想在他們上來的中間我跟您報告我們其實一直就有在兩個交易所去收報這報告中也寫從去年四三四月到今年已經有兩萬八千件但是這個平台還要大家跨部會去合作像Google跟Meta要用實名制這些都有在努力中請兩位的長官就回到我的問題你以為派專人"},{"start":192.148,"end":218.099,"text":"可能不只一個可能不只兩個專人每天盯這些平台有沒有有沒有回答這問題跟委員報告我們交易所這邊有專人在做這個有沒有每天盯有有我們有沒有每天出報告我們持續發現案子就會做移送的這個動作給檢察局給好你們三個有移送多少幾間"},{"start":221.251,"end":231.501,"text":"到2月29號為止我這邊的統計是一萬四千一萬四千多件?對那貴賣這邊呢?你說了多少?我們到2月27號是一萬一千六百三十四千你們兩個都是確定每天都有在看喔?對對對"},{"start":243.442,"end":258.677,"text":"一個一萬多、一個一萬多。諸位啊,你回答我不好。我支持魯頓喔。輿送這麼多,為什麼都沒辦法查出來?這裡面的名堂啊什麼之類的,為什麼沒有辦法有效阻斷?"},{"start":260.419,"end":284.39,"text":"這些你看我們行政院陳院長這樣摸著這大聲花了13例喊打喊殺打詐結果詐越打越多你看到這裡曲線圖這個是聯運報的曲線圖你看到越來越多越來越多件數越來越多沒有效啊而且看起來你取締了不少啊所以"},{"start":286.349,"end":312.481,"text":"黃主委因為這個詐騙絕對跟經理有關係絕對跟你的管區有關係你會不會覺得你少做了一件什麼事其實報告委員重點就是因為我們收報之後報到刑事局之後其實重點是叫他下架他是有在一二四小時之內下架可是下架之後他又透過其他管道又再上來所以查完之後他還會再上來所以我們下架不能跟他處罰嗎"},{"start":313.861,"end":338.582,"text":"沒有,處罰的前提必須他不下架我們才能處罰他下架就不能處罰那這是法律上的規定那另外一個重點就是將來透過平台Google跟Meta用實名制現在用實名制你可以不可以要求因為這個上架的大部分很多是投顧的嘛投顧也是你管的啊其實真正的投顧不會做這些事"},{"start":339.022,"end":364.623,"text":"假投顧也可以啊假的假的不管是不是投顧或是就是一個詐欺集團他這個不是真正的投顧你沒辦法現在就是六月底有實名制將來如果你真正在這個平台要上廣告要實名就可以追索你我請問你啊被詐騙的金融大概可以追回來多少"},{"start":366.386,"end":392.48,"text":"這個要刑事局這邊才有這個資料我得到的資料是不超過一成耶幾乎都是血本不歸啊那是overall的我88億那最多追回來8億而且不知道什麼時候才追得到這個這個噴到這樣的案子真的很難過啊真的這個這個當事人都想自殺啊三千多萬"},{"start":394.608,"end":398.535,"text":"真的那個主委啊您腦筋很好啊這都想一想"},{"start":400.068,"end":424.538,"text":"有效阻止啦你這裡啦你這裡啦其實我們跟數位部就是最近就有就是今年6月開始這兩個平台就是願意用實名制來介紹好 第二個我跟你談一下臺股啊最近嚇嚇叫啊漲了1萬到1萬9千多啊是不是已經正式進入流勢"},{"start":426.465,"end":441.009,"text":"我們不太敢我們不太適合判斷牛市跟熊市我想臺股有基本面是牛市什麼判斷大概一定期間漲我想我20%你現在不只漲20%了如果你一段時間不只漲20%了從1萬7到1萬9就差不多20了1萬6、1萬5漲到1萬9就20%了是不是所以你還不敢講牛市"},{"start":453.902,"end":478.684,"text":"我想國際政經情況多變,我們還是要審慎以對了。基本面很好?基本面有,基本面我沒有說。整體台股的本利比有多少?21.17倍。OK嗎?我覺得還算穩健了,對,還算穩健。美國的東京市的本利比多少?"},{"start":480.306,"end":498.957,"text":"報告委員我沒聽清楚你是美國的Dow Jones的本利比多少這個我要請同仁提供一下多少84.06所以臺灣的本利比不高還對從這個角度他的意思就是還可能會漲"},{"start":500.719,"end":528.808,"text":"呃,報告委員,監理機關不太適合對漲跌有太多的…下一步就是這樣說啊,本地比低的要去漲啊,就是這樣啊,對嗎?但是你仔細發現到,這個漲幅都是靠AI啦,跟台積電相關的電子族群,其他的族群很少啊,就是這個不夠平均的啊,這其實外界,外界會,會有點擔心說我們資本市場,特別股票市場,"},{"start":530.208,"end":555.339,"text":"扭曲的現象還蠻嚴重的怎麼大家資金都一萬萬的擠到這個電子的一個相關的產業過來有些電子的有些電子本益比都很高耶公司電子本益比都非常高耶而且比高風險當然就高啊報委員這個是您說的是一個事實可是另外一個事實也是臺股30年的發展我們的"},{"start":557.274,"end":576.345,"text":"臺灣證券交易所的市場結構就是半導體電子就這樣一半所以這個跟反映它的產業結構所以你的意思你不敢說後市怎麼樣就是本地比臺灣OK還不算高所以它是Juicy所以它值得投資可以吧我現在結論"},{"start":577.421,"end":588.782,"text":"我覺得投不投資還是看投資人決定就注意方式但是台股是有日本面好 最後一題也是很重要的題題目金融營業稅今年底到期"},{"start":590.472,"end":617.446,"text":"我們現在是3%現在是5%3%給財政部2%2%是你們到進到金融業特別準備金現在已經將近3500億金管會對於這個法今天底到底這個法要怎麼修有沒有方向我想第一個就是財政部主管的我們要尊重財政部第二個那你態度好問了財政部財政部主管問你欸"},{"start":618.601,"end":628.012,"text":"我的任期到5月19號這應該是下一任主委要回答會比較合適真的我不是不願意回答你我不應該超越我的決定"},{"start":632.148,"end":654.549,"text":"好歹你要離開之前做一件大事吧!這件不是大事!這個是大事喔!這個是大事喔!沒有!你的態度非常重要!我找了財政部,財政部告訴我金管會的態度非常重要!當然行政院相關政委他的態度嚴重!報告委員,其實我的態度過去在您垂詢的時候"},{"start":655.109,"end":666.054,"text":"其他委員隨行書我有報告過現在的我們覺得其實跟國際趨勢來講是不符的希望能夠降低但是原有到準備金的部分希望能夠留著"},{"start":667.578,"end":668.439,"text":"謝謝市保委員接著我們請郭國文委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}