{"error":false,"id":["149237"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149237,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149237","日期":"2024-03-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-04T11:06:30+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-04T11:19:42+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd33c1702cc1a64aa2f012038cf3c9e62ff8ba9b0039caa7a67d954539f198b0c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"11:06:30 - 11:19:42","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":683,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（11時6分）謝謝召委，有請部長跟署長。"],["主席：好，請部長跟署長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["劉委員建國：部長好。部長，我用最短的時間整理一個大事記，你看一下有什麼問題我們再來討論。第一個就是今（2024）年1月30日FDA公布邊境查驗結果，中國輸入臺灣的辣椒粉共二萬八千多公斤，驗出蘇丹色素3號，這沒有問題吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有。"],["劉委員建國：那你可以從這個大事記裡面再去看，講到蘇丹色素3號幾乎每天將近有一爆，因為我還有相關資料沒有納進去，包含有蝦味仙、海底撈，還有剛才召委拿的相關的一些零嘴食品等等等，還有調味料，如果要有更積極的作為，我想我這個大事記應該是放不下，而且會每天一爆至兩爆以上，我現在來對照你們報告裡面的第7頁，第7頁已經提到邊境全面逐批檢驗，你的逐批檢驗是從112年12月11日已採取100%逐批檢驗，然後檢驗核可後始得輸入，那你現在跟我講1月30號也是邊境檢驗查到了二萬多公斤的蘇丹紅色素3號，你要跟我們說明的是，它是在12月11日的100%逐批檢驗之前進來的？"],["薛部長瑞元：是，沒有錯。"],["劉委員建國：是不是這樣？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["劉委員建國：但是反之，你不可能一個食品、一個添加物，馬上就100%逐批檢驗。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，沒有錯。"],["劉委員建國：應該之前先可能是50%，再往前推可能是30%，有查到不合格或是什麼樣的狀況，才會慢慢地調高逐批檢驗的成數，對不對？應該是這麼講。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["劉委員建國：現在問題來了，如果照你這麼說，到了1月30日，然後100%的檢驗是去年的12月11號，足足有二個多月時間，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["劉委員建國：二個多月嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：12月，大概1個月。"],["劉委員建國：12月11日嘛！我們算1個月嘛！1月30日算一個月，就是將近快2個月時間，對不對？那這中間你們的50%、30%有可能再往前推，可能是半年，大概是這樣的一個時間，通通沒有查到蘇丹色素3號，一直到1月30日才有辦法查到，我們的食安五環裡面講得非常清楚，你們開宗明義第一頁就講到，源頭控管，加強查驗，然後加重惡意黑心廠商的責任，我從這三個面向來跟你討論，第一個，源頭控管，我覺得這是有問題的；第二個，加強查驗，我覺得更有問題，我為什麼要這麼表達？因為你們自己在相關報告裡面也寫了很多，如AI的大數據、加重跨部會相關資料、前端的把關、輸入食品安全等文件措施，還有要提高違規產品的命中率。當我們在去年12月11號已經提高到100%的時候，怎麼會到快兩個月的時間才在邊境查驗到中國輸入臺灣的辣椒粉共兩萬多公斤，將近快3萬公斤，顯然這個邊境查驗、逐批檢驗是有很大的問題，我要挑戰這件事情，這是其一。","其二，你再看一下，保欣這家公司，以我所瞭解，看到相關的數據跟資料，目前來講保欣這家公司應該是最大的進口商，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["劉委員建國：從1月30日還不曉得保欣，2月7號就應該要知道了，你們目前維持對保欣做什麼作為？"],["薛部長瑞元：委員的兩個問題，第一個就是說我們從去年百分之百的抽批之後，到1月30日有公布邊境檢驗結果，驗出有輸入含蘇丹紅色素3號的這個……"],["劉委員建國：部長，你可能要大聲一點，不好意思。"],["薛部長瑞元：好，不好意思。這中間我們所做的其實就是對於還沒有百分之百抽批之前已經進來的，我們要求去做後市場的查驗，這個都有請地方的衛生局後續去做稽查，這中間因為總共的輸入是有9批檢驗不合格，所以這個我們就交給地方去做，所以這中間我們是有做事情的。","第二個問題是委員提到現在對於保欣，我們做了哪些處理，是不是我請署長來做說明？"],["吳署長秀梅：對於保欣公司相關的下游，其實地方衛生局都已經徹查，對於第一層、第二層的產品，如果已經查到的都是下架。另外，新北衛生局也在今年的3月3號依照食安法第七條第五項已經對保欣開罰200萬。"],["劉委員建國：什麼時候開罰？"],["吳署長秀梅：3月3號。"],["劉委員建國：3月3號？"],["吳署長秀梅：是。"],["劉委員建國：署長，你自己看，我的大事記裡面有出現保欣的是2月24日、2月29日、3月2日，甚至於有廠家主動自己拿去檢驗，發現有這個問題，也跟保欣提出退貨。保欣有通知它所有的下游廠家主動下架嗎？沒有，你們只有開罰200萬嗎？這個有加重惡意黑心廠商的責任嗎？這是一件事情。","我從你的食安五環的大面向來討論，第二個，我剛剛有特別提到，你們還沒有回答我，去年12月11號就已經有100%的查驗，怎麼會到1月30日還驗出這麼多的將近3萬公斤的蘇丹紅色素3號？你要跟我表達說這是之前，那這個之前的邊境檢驗是出了什麼問題？今天要感謝召委排這個專案，但是應該把邊境的相關人員都找來才對，怎麼會有這麼嚴重的事情發生？這真的是有問題啦，部長，你再思考一下，包含署長，到底是什麼地方出了問題？","而且你們整體的說法、整個報告裡面，我先提供這兩點，還有問題，我們都要在第一時間去阻斷非法產品於境外，但顯然是沒有啊。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員所呈現的1月30日有兩萬多公斤驗出來，這就是在邊境就擋住了，因為它驗出來是有。"],["劉委員建國：是1月30日嘛。"],["薛部長瑞元：對啊，就是你這邊寫的1月30日這個。"],["劉委員建國：對嘛，那你是不是要跟我表達12月11日提高到100%的時候，一直到1月30日這中間還是有沒擋住的嘛……"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有……"],["劉委員建國：12月11號之前也有沒擋住的嘛，才有底下這一些大事記嘛，應該是這樣說啊。"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，應該是說兩萬多公斤是被擋住的。"],["劉委員建國：對啦，兩萬多公斤就是在1月30號100%邊境查驗的時候才擋住嘛，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["劉委員建國：之前沒有擋住嘛，因為你跟我講說，為什麼會發生大事記，應該是在提高到100%之前進口到臺灣來的，所以不管30%、不管50%，甚至於12月11號的100%，一直到今年的1月30日，我們都有很多沒有擋住，才會發生這麼多的大事件。"],["薛部長瑞元：100%之後就不會沒有擋住，是100%之前，100%之前才有漏網，如果提高到……"],["劉委員建國：那你就要提供相關數據，從12月11號100%之後一直到1月30日的所有逐批檢驗發生的不合格率有多少，不可能只有1月30日去擋到……還是你這是累積的嗎？你是從12月11號累積到……"],["薛部長瑞元：這是累積。"],["劉委員建國：好。所以你就是要告訴委員會，邊境查驗從今爾後統統要100%，不然就是會有漏網之魚。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["劉委員建國：因為你看這個相關產品這麼多，蝦味先、調味料，還有鴨血等等，應該還有很多相關製品，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["劉委員建國：明天可能會再有不一樣的食品發生嘛。"],["薛部長瑞元：有可能。"],["劉委員建國：這是其一。","其二，食安通報的SOP到底是怎麼樣？這是我們雲林縣政府的，它是在1月8號接獲陳情，結果是到1月22號才抽樣，就過了兩個禮拜，這是他們的新聞稿，我照他們的新聞稿說給你聽，1月30號才確認有蘇丹紅色素，隨即找了業者，業者也說在1月31號會立即通知下游下架產品，然後在2月7號通報全國。1月8號接獲陳情，2月7號通報全國，整個往上、往食藥署報，再向全國通報，如果依照這個SOP對照臺中的西布特羅事件，這是差天差地啊！它還有通知業者來做說明，再做統一的下架，你看，臺中的西布特羅事件連台糖都沒有通知過，我們的SOP到底出了什麼問題？面對這些事情，怎麼沒有一個全國統一的標準？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分的話，委員這樣問，我們是認為我們可以進一步找各地方縣市來精進。"],["劉委員建國：不是，部長，這個事情我覺得非同小可，有一個西布特羅，現在又有一個蘇丹紅，未來還有什麼事情我們不曉得。如果經常這樣，地方政府跟中央政府都不同調，這個沒有什麼看守內閣的問題，每天都要吃、每天都會遇到耶！"],["薛部長瑞元：對啦，這個應該大家再一致一下。"],["劉委員建國：這個原本中央就是要傾全力把整個SOP建置完成，才不會有這樣的事情發生，不然你看這個不是很離譜？一個是廠家對保欣主動退貨，你們知道這個事情後去裁罰200萬，另外一個是接獲陳情，兩個禮拜之後才抽樣，1月30日才確認，將近快一個月才確認有蘇丹紅，然後在1月31號，足足快一個月的時間才通報全國。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，這個有時間上面的……"],["劉委員建國：這個SOP你們一定要趕快建置。","第三件事情，你們的報告裡面怎麼會對這個不合格輸入的廠家、中國這個廠家暫停3個月的輸入？這樣中國跟臺灣永遠都沒有對等的機會，這是非常不智的作為，怎麼說？臺灣的農產品、臺灣的食品輸入到中國，像是農產品一旦發現有介殼蟲，就無限期禁止輸入，相關的食品也一樣，在他們中國全國包含新疆都要求全面下架，進到他們的海關全部扣關。我們怎麼會對他們這麼好？只有禁3個月，這樣永遠沒有對等的機會。"],["薛部長瑞元：好，這個部分我們可以來檢討。"],["劉委員建國：請部長展現魄力，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["劉委員建國：另外，署長，我剛才提到的整個食安通報的事情，這個應該是要有一個非常明確的建置，不然這個事情會持續發生，會源源不斷。"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["劉委員建國：最後，我還是覺得邊境的查驗有很大的問題，我希望你提供那些數據給我們，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["劉委員建國：1月30日之前查到的不合格率到底是怎麼樣的狀況，要給委員會所有委員做參考。"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝。謝謝主席。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員的質詢。","主席在這邊宣告，待會等林淑芬委員質詢完畢之後處理臨時提案。","接下來請王正旭委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":296,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-2","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","林月琴","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","盧縣一","劉建國","王正旭","楊曜","林淑芬","陳雪生","洪孟楷","謝衣鳯","陳瑩","王鴻薇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","林德福"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅\n事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130601_00008"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.8697187500000005,"end":8.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.72159375,"end":10.290968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.56096875,"end":11.708468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.14221875,"end":17.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.93534375,"end":18.711593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.605968750000002,"end":26.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.520343750000002,"end":32.228468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.90346875,"end":36.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.24034375,"end":38.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.05034375,"end":38.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.40471875,"end":38.775968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.67034375,"end":42.572843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.80909375,"end":43.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.85096875,"end":45.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.572218750000005,"end":46.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.344093750000006,"end":49.609718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.72346875,"end":62.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.805968750000005,"end":64.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.45534375,"end":67.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.29034375,"end":72.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.25159375,"end":75.37784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.54659375,"end":78.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.70221875,"end":80.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.57096875,"end":81.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.14471875000001,"end":82.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.29221875,"end":85.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.31284375,"end":87.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.03409375000001,"end":91.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.80971875,"end":94.83471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.70784375000001,"end":99.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.49221875,"end":103.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.98096875,"end":106.59659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.86659375,"end":108.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.16159375000001,"end":109.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.37659375000001,"end":110.79846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.19909375,"end":113.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.29159375,"end":115.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.75971875,"end":117.17721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.56534375000001,"end":120.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.53534375000001,"end":121.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.10909375000001,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.02034375000001,"end":122.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.52659375,"end":123.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.14659375000001,"end":136.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.52534375000002,"end":130.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.93034375000002,"end":131.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.02221875,"end":139.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.53659375,"end":144.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.22846875000002,"end":140.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.26159375,"end":144.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.27846875,"end":144.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.76784375,"end":146.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.53971875000002,"end":147.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.22284375,"end":150.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.38284375,"end":151.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.36159375,"end":153.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.61034375,"end":155.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.51284375,"end":158.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.53346875,"end":159.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.66409375,"end":161.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.19971875000002,"end":162.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.99284375000002,"end":169.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.92846875,"end":175.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.91471875000002,"end":179.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.57659375,"end":181.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.97721875000002,"end":183.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.60971875,"end":186.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.47846875000002,"end":192.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.96284375000002,"end":194.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.81909375,"end":195.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.52784375000002,"end":197.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.67096875000001,"end":199.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.42596875,"end":202.64909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.93596875,"end":206.90159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.13409375,"end":204.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.21784375000001,"end":224.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.27846875,"end":228.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.71659375000002,"end":233.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.74971875000003,"end":234.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.15034375000002,"end":236.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.04034375,"end":242.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.25471875000002,"end":243.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.09409375,"end":245.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.76471875000001,"end":246.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.92471875,"end":248.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.78096875000003,"end":250.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.24909375000001,"end":252.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.56534375,"end":253.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.37534375,"end":254.13471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.73784375000002,"end":258.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.57284375,"end":264.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.20471875000004,"end":265.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.47471875,"end":266.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.31846875,"end":266.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.57159375000003,"end":266.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.43221875,"end":268.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.22096875,"end":270.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.48659375,"end":272.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.05159375,"end":275.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.88221875,"end":277.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.02971875000003,"end":299.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.78159375,"end":300.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.79846875000004,"end":302.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.33409375,"end":301.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.22409375,"end":308.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.43409375000005,"end":325.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.49909375000004,"end":334.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.47221875,"end":339.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.04534375000003,"end":349.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.84096875,"end":363.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.80534375,"end":365.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.62784375,"end":371.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.91784375000003,"end":373.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.92596875000004,"end":376.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.27596875,"end":377.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.18721875,"end":377.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.20409375,"end":377.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.42346875000004,"end":378.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.57096875,"end":378.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.92534375,"end":381.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.33409375,"end":383.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.34659375,"end":387.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.83534375000005,"end":394.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.60221875,"end":394.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.12534375,"end":396.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.31909375000004,"end":402.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.03971875,"end":404.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.30096875000004,"end":407.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.30471875,"end":409.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.72221875,"end":415.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.71284375000005,"end":423.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.49221875,"end":426.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.20471875000004,"end":428.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.39846875,"end":432.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.58784375000005,"end":433.39784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.78596875000005,"end":438.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.13534375,"end":440.89034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.22346875000005,"end":447.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.84284375000004,"end":449.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.88471875000005,"end":452.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.65221875000003,"end":456.07784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.76971875000004,"end":457.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.93409375000005,"end":459.75659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.89159375,"end":460.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.92096875000004,"end":462.15284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.57471875000005,"end":464.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.93721875000006,"end":467.67096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.97034375000004,"end":469.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.65784375000004,"end":472.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.91909375000006,"end":478.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.69034375,"end":479.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.95596875,"end":480.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.13721875000005,"end":483.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.65596875000006,"end":486.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.52034375000005,"end":486.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.85784375000003,"end":489.79409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.57034375,"end":492.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.29159375,"end":497.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.32534375000006,"end":492.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.13471875000005,"end":497.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.48909375000005,"end":501.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.03284375000004,"end":506.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.38221875000005,"end":513.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.65221875000003,"end":506.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.57096875,"end":516.1359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.2878437500001,"end":517.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.4140937500001,"end":519.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.05096875,"end":520.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.02971875,"end":522.9365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.42596875,"end":527.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.2822187500001,"end":531.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.6865937499999,"end":530.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.0615937499999,"end":536.4365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.1159687500001,"end":542.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.64659375,"end":544.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.05971875,"end":545.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.88659375,"end":546.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.2747187500001,"end":547.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.45159375,"end":549.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.3078437500001,"end":552.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.23159375,"end":552.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.95721875,"end":554.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.49284375,"end":559.2178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.69034375,"end":560.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.1459687500001,"end":561.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.90096875,"end":562.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.18784375,"end":564.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.9553437500001,"end":565.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.9678437499999,"end":566.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.14909375,"end":569.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.52846875,"end":571.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.8359687500001,"end":573.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.7978437500001,"end":574.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.86096875,"end":576.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.24471875,"end":576.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.73409375,"end":577.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.1515937500001,"end":578.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.36659375,"end":581.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.6615937500001,"end":582.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.33221875,"end":585.7622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.99846875,"end":588.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.9640937500001,"end":592.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.90034375,"end":594.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.3684687500001,"end":596.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.0515937499999,"end":597.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.9922187500001,"end":600.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.70909375,"end":603.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.0209687500001,"end":608.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.6615937500001,"end":609.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.64034375,"end":611.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.4922187500001,"end":613.7747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.0109687500001,"end":614.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.05721875,"end":615.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.5422187500001,"end":619.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.2253437500001,"end":620.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.7778437500001,"end":622.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.7859687499999,"end":623.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.91659375,"end":624.6084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.06409375,"end":625.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.65034375,"end":627.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.6372187500001,"end":630.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.29096875,"end":633.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.2947187500001,"end":635.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.5265937500001,"end":637.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.7578437500001,"end":642.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.8334687500001,"end":644.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.1453437499999,"end":646.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.7734687500001,"end":655.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.45596875,"end":659.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.9115937500001,"end":656.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.0634687500001,"end":656.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.26534375,"end":663.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.2140937500001,"end":666.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.1672187500001,"end":667.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.1797187500001,"end":671.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.76159375,"end":674.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.58409375,"end":672.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.6428437500001,"end":676.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.69721875,"end":678.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.50721875,"end":683.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.29534375,"end":685.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.83096875,"end":692.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.5303437500002,"end":696.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.96846875,"end":698.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.5378437500001,"end":699.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.88784375,"end":701.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.38534375,"end":703.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.3303437500001,"end":704.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.54534375,"end":705.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.23284375,"end":707.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.30409375,"end":711.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.89034375,"end":714.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.8390937500001,"end":715.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.2903437500001,"end":719.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.4797187500001,"end":721.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.66909375,"end":723.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.25971875,"end":724.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":725.9934687500001,"end":728.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.00971875,"end":731.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.22034375,"end":732.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.04721875,"end":735.8484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.1015937500001,"end":736.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.97909375,"end":737.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.9240937500001,"end":739.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":740.11784375,"end":741.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":742.4465937500001,"end":743.8303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.45471875,"end":746.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.25596875,"end":748.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":748.6228437500001,"end":749.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.95596875,"end":750.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":752.1159687500001,"end":753.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.05659375,"end":754.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.8959687500001,"end":757.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":757.7353437500001,"end":759.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.50721875,"end":761.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":761.5490937500001,"end":763.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.28721875,"end":764.9072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.81846875,"end":767.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.2990937500001,"end":770.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.57284375,"end":773.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":773.3953437499999,"end":774.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.54721875,"end":773.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":774.82971875,"end":777.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.51284375,"end":781.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.54159375,"end":782.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.96346875,"end":784.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.97159375,"end":789.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":789.6797187500001,"end":791.85659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":7.855,"text":"我用最短的時間去整理一個大事件你看一下有什麼問題我們再來討論第一個就是2024的1月30日今年"},{"start":27.577,"end":49.023,"text":"FDA公布邊境查驗結果,中國輸入臺灣的辣椒粉共28,000多公斤,驗出蘇丹色素三號。這沒有問題吧?好。那你可以再從這個大司機裡面再去看。有講到這個蘇丹色素三號"},{"start":50.962,"end":66.429,"text":"幾乎每天將近有一半,因為我懷有相關資料沒有納入進去啦齁,包含有這個什麼蝦味仙啦齁,還有海底撈,還有剛才趙偉拿的那個什麼相關的一些零嘴的食品等等等,還有調味料,如果要"},{"start":68.365,"end":87.41,"text":"要有更積極的作為我想我這個大事件應該是放不下而且會每天會一報是兩報以上那我現在講說我對照我現在對照你們的你們的這個報告裡面的第7頁第7頁已經提到邊境全面逐批檢驗你的逐批檢驗是從112年的12月11日以採取100%逐批檢驗然後檢驗合格後使得輸入"},{"start":96.735,"end":110.492,"text":"那你現在跟我講就是說1月30號這一個也是竹邊這個邊境的檢驗齁查到了這2萬多公斤的蘇丹紅色素3號你是要跟"},{"start":112.233,"end":137.821,"text":"我們說明的是說他是在他是在你12月11日之前的100%足皮檢驗之前進來的是不是這樣對但是緩之你不可能一個食品一個添加物你馬上就100%足皮檢驗應該之前是有先可能是50%再往前推可能是30%有查到不合格或是什麼樣的狀況你才會"},{"start":139.925,"end":146.689,"text":"那現在問題來了嘛齁如果照你這麼說到了1月30然後100%的檢驗是去年的12月11號主主有兩個多月時間喔對不對兩個多月嘛12月11嘛我們算一個月嘛1月30算一個月就將近快兩個月時間嘛對不對"},{"start":169.98,"end":196.887,"text":"那這個中間你們的50%、30%有可能再往前推可能是半年嘛齁大概是這樣一個一個一個一個一個時間嘛對不對通通沒有查到這個蘇丹色素3號一直到1月30才有辦法查到我們的食安五環裡面講得非常清楚嘛齁你們開宗明義第1頁就講到嘛源頭控管嘛加強查驗嘛齁然後加重惡意"},{"start":197.748,"end":224.269,"text":"黑心廠商的責任我從這三個面向來跟你討論第一個圓融控管我覺得這是有問題的第二個家常茶宴我覺得更有問題我為什麼要這麼表達因為你們自己在相關的報告裡面也寫了很多AI的大數據然後加重怎樣的這個跨部會的相關的資料然後前端的把關輸入食品的安全等文件的措施然後"},{"start":225.459,"end":253.929,"text":"還有要提高這個違規產品的命中率當我們在12月去年12月11號的時候已經提高到100%的時候我們怎麼會到快兩個月時間才在邊境查驗到中國輸入的台灣辣椒粉共2萬多公斤將近快3萬公斤這個顯然邊境查驗逐批檢驗是有很大的問題我要挑戰這件事情這其一嘛齁那其二你再看一下"},{"start":255.782,"end":275.512,"text":"在保鑫這家公司應該是最大應該是我了解看到相關數據跟資料保鑫這家公司應該是最大的進口商目前來講對不對那從1月30還不曉得保鑫2月7號應該就是要知道了那你們目前為止對保鑫做什麼作為"},{"start":278.049,"end":300.162,"text":"好,那委員的兩個問題嘛,第一個就是說,我們從去年百分之百的抽批之後,那到1月30,那個,這一個有公布,這一個邊境檢驗結果有輸入的,驗豬有蘇丹色素3號的這一個。不好意思,不好意思。"},{"start":303.257,"end":307.442,"text":"那這中間我們所做的其實就是對於之前"},{"start":309.642,"end":334.678,"text":"還沒有百分之百抽批之前的那些已經進來的那我們要求去做後市長的一個查驗那這個都有這一個請那個地方的衛生局後續去做這個稽查那這中間因為總共的輸入是有9批那檢驗不合格所以這個我們就交給地方去做"},{"start":336.78,"end":348.418,"text":"所以這中間我們是有做事情那第二個問題是委員提到說那現在對保新我們做了哪一些處理那是不是我請那個署長來做說明"},{"start":351.892,"end":351.972,"text":"什麼時候開罰?"},{"start":375.4,"end":395.788,"text":"對,3月3號3月3號,所長你自己看吼,我的大四季裡面有出現保新的是2月24、2月28、2月29然後3月2號,甚至有廠家主動自己拿去檢驗發現有這個問題,然後也跟保新提出退貨"},{"start":397.349,"end":414.862,"text":"那保新有通知他所有的這些下游的廠家主動下架嗎?沒有那我們只有開華兩百萬嗎?這個加重惡意犧牲廠商的責任嗎?這是一件事情我從你的食安五環五道面向來討論嘛那第二個我剛剛有特別提到你們還沒有回答我"},{"start":415.928,"end":440.026,"text":"11月11日,去年11月11日就已經百分之100%的這樣的一個查驗怎麼會到1月30還有這麼多驗出將近3萬公斤的蘇丹色素3號你要跟我表達說這個是之前那這個之前的檢驗,邊境檢驗是出了什麼問題今天稍微講,要感謝稍微排這個專案啦齁但是應該把邊境的相關的人員都要找來才對啊那我這關事情發生了這麼嚴重"},{"start":442.804,"end":461.415,"text":"這真的是有問題啦部長你再思考一下還有包含署長到底是什麼地方出了問題而且你們的整體的這個說法裡面整個報告裡面我先提供到這兩點還有問題我們都要在第一個時間去阻斷第一個時間要去阻斷非凡產品於境外那顯然是沒有"},{"start":473.295,"end":485.219,"text":"這呈現了1月30的2萬多公斤的驗出來,這就是在邊境就擋住了,因為他驗出來是有。是1月30嗎?對啊,就是你1月30這邊寫的那你是不是要跟我表達說12月11號100%提高到100%的時候,一直到1月30這個中間"},{"start":491.236,"end":517.376,"text":"還是沒有擋住的嗎?12月11號之前也是沒有擋住的嗎?才有底下這大試劇嗎?應該是這樣說嗎?應該是說兩萬多公斤是被擋住的對啊,兩萬多公斤就是在1月30號這個邊境查驗的時候100%查驗的時候才擋住嘛對不對?之前沒有擋住嘛因為你剛剛講說後面發生的大試劇應該是在提高100%之前進口到台灣來的嘛所以不管38%、不管50%甚至於12月11號的"},{"start":520.185,"end":543.42,"text":"一百趴一直到今年的1月30我們都會有很多沒有擋住才會發生這麼多的大事件一百趴之後就不會沒有擋住啦是一百趴之前嘛一百趴之前才有說啊漏了嘛那你就要提供相關數據從12月11號一百趴之後一直到1月30的所有主批檢驗發生的不合格率"},{"start":545.1,"end":574.362,"text":"有多少嗎?不可能只有1月30去檔到還是你這個是累積的嗎?你是從12月11號累積到累積嘛齁?好啊所以我們的邊境查驗你就是要告訴委員會說從今而後通通要100%對啊不然就是會有落網之魚嘛對因為你看這相關產品這麼多香味鮮調味料還有那個鴨血等等等應該還有很多很多相關製品嘛對不對這個明天可能會在"},{"start":574.912,"end":597.358,"text":"有不一樣的食品在發生嗎?有可能這其一嘛好那其二食安通報的SOP到底是怎麼樣?你來看這是我們雲縣政府他是這樣喔他是在1月8號接貨陳情結果是到1月22號才抽樣就過了兩個禮拜嘛對不對這是他們的新稿我知道他們的新稿說給你聽1月30號才確認有蘇丹紅色素"},{"start":601.775,"end":627.396,"text":"所以才隨即找了業者業者也說在1月31號會立即通知下游下架產品然後通報然後在2月7號通報全國1月8號接獲陳情2月7號通報全國在我們整個網上網消署報在向全國通報如果依照這個SOP對照臺中的西伯特羅事件這差天差地啊他要通知業者"},{"start":631.531,"end":637.918,"text":"來做說明然後再做統一的下架然後你看臺中的西伯特羅事件連臺黨都沒有通知過我們的SOP到底出了什麼問題怎麼沒有一個全國統一的標準像面對這些事情"},{"start":649.52,"end":671.829,"text":"這個部分的話委員這樣問的話我們是認為說我們可以來進一步再找不是不是這個事情我覺得非常小可有一個西部特羅現在有個蘇丹紅未來還有什麼事情我們不曉得如果經常這樣地方政府跟中央政府都不同調這個沒有什麼看守內閣的問題每個人都要吃、每個人都要肚子餓這個原本中央就是要"},{"start":678.649,"end":700.848,"text":"要請全力的去把這個整個SOP建制完成嘛才不會有這樣的事情發生嘛不然你看這個不是很好很離譜一個是廠家對保鮮主動退貨我們知道這個事情之後我們去裁判兩百萬另外一個是接貨陳情然後兩個禮拜之後才抽樣1月30才確認將近快一個月才確認有蘇丹紅然後再來在1月31號也足足快一個月時間才通報全國"},{"start":710.93,"end":728.16,"text":"第三件事情這個SOP你們一定要趕快建制啦吼第三件事情怎麼會你們的報告裡面怎麼會對這一個波格輸入的廠家中國這廠家什麼暫停三個月的輸入你知道中國跟台灣永遠都沒有對等的機會"},{"start":730.166,"end":754.845,"text":"這是非常不智的作為怎麼說臺灣的農產品、臺灣的食品輸入到中國一旦發現有像農產品有甲殼蟲無限期的禁止輸入相關的食品也一樣全國在他們中國全國包含新疆他都要求全面下架禁到他們的海關全部扣關我們怎麼會對他們這麼好只有禁三個月"},{"start":756.176,"end":781.667,"text":"這樣永遠沒有對等的機會請部長展現魄力啦好不好因為署長我覺得我剛才提到的整個食安通報的事情這個應該是要有一個非常明確的監制啦不然這事情會持續的發生會永遠不斷最後我還是覺得邊境的查驗它是有很大的問題我希望你提供那些數據給我們好不好1月30之前"},{"start":782.571,"end":783.272,"text":"劉建國委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}