{"error":false,"id":["149245"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149245,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149245","日期":"2024-03-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-04T11:29:51+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-04T11:38:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:43","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2dddf1a91089232cc59af012038cf3c9e62ff8ba9b0039caa7a68e479b4c30bc6f4d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊曜","委員發言時間":"11:29:51 - 11:38:34","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":779,"blocks":[["楊委員曜：（11時29分）謝謝主席，請薛部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["楊委員曜：部長好。這一次中國的辣椒粉裡面添加了蘇丹紅，也造成了一些後續的問題。我們大概在去年首次檢出違規的辣椒粉以後，就依照食品及相關產品輸入查驗辦法逐步提高抽驗的數量，從20%到50%，然後到全面，這樣逐步查驗的比例是不是會查出更多？有沒有？"],["薛部長瑞元：這次是越查越多，比例增高，反而是越來越多；但如果它本來就沒有那麼普遍的話，提高抽驗比例應該是會越來越少。"],["楊委員曜：所以，如果是比較大規模的違規事件，就會隨著抽驗提高，而提高它的案件數；假如是偶發事件，反而會降低，對不對？也就是說，並不是抽查的比例越高，案件就越高，要看個別的事件。我就在想是不是每一件都一樣，聽部長這樣子講，我就知道了。","我們知道食藥署這邊要研議修正食品以及相關產品的輸入查驗辦法，假如是嚴重違規的態樣，我們打算跳過加強抽驗跟逐批查驗，直接禁止輸入。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["楊委員曜：所謂嚴重違規的態樣大概會是什麼情形？"],["薛部長瑞元：像蘇丹紅就是屬於這類，我們會有幾個判斷的依據，第一就是這個產品發生違規的比例，也就是它的頻率有多高；第二就是它造成人體的危害有多重；第三就是這種非常的異常不應該出現在這個食品裡面的東西突然出現了，那麼這一個部分可能也是屬於……"],["楊委員曜：就先全面禁止，對。"],["薛部長瑞元：會先提升到100%，如果到了100%還查到的話，那就禁止。"],["楊委員曜：像現在我們查驗到了以後，因為有部分已經流入市場，你們應該有要求地方政府要強化查驗的預警機制，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對於這一些可能的漏網之魚，也就是這幾家公司進來的產品，在當時還沒有100%抽批，結果就讓它過了，我們請地方政府再去要求它回來抽驗，如果有不合格的，還是要統統下架。"],["楊委員曜：現在這個機制應該是存在啦！"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["楊委員曜：我提一個問題，因為我們大概是按照違規的情況，從20%到50%到100%，所以在人力的部分，因為邊境查驗的項目也多，包括農藥的殘留量也都在裡面，範圍非常的廣，所以需要的人力很多。在111年也就是2022年的時候，我們輸入的食品重量將近900萬公噸，那個時候我們查驗的人員是192人，這個是111年的數字，相較於兩年前，也就是109年其實只有81個人，等於我們在兩年裡面增加了兩倍的人力，我知道有部分人力其實是透過前瞻預算來補充的，現在前瞻預算可能快要結束了，對於人力的問題，部長這邊有沒有什麼構想？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們今年會來跟行政院這邊溝通，因為食品進口的這個查驗工作是越來越繁重。"],["楊委員曜：對。"],["薛部長瑞元：所以我們希望能夠增加人力，我們會跟行政院這邊來爭取，如果爭取得到，所需要的預算我們當然在今年就會編列進來，下個會期就會送到立法院。"],["楊委員曜：部長這個應該要爭取到啦！我相信不分黨派的委員也都會支持，既然大家對於國人的食安部分這麼重視，人力不足是沒有辦法處理好很多事情的。"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["楊委員曜：我繼續要問就是，對於蘇丹紅違規的廠商，雲林地檢署已經開始啟動偵查，這是刑事的部分；民眾因為食品安全的關係，可能對他自己的身體有一些傷害，這裡有關民事的部分有兩個問題，第一個問題其實就是食品安全的民事訴訟，最困難的就是怎麼建構跟證明它的因果關係，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["楊委員曜：這個很困難。第二個像塑化劑、三聚氰胺這種半衰期相對短，到檢驗的時候其實很難驗出來，也就是說它在民事訴訟的難度是很高的，我們這邊有沒有協助民眾提起團體訴訟的機制？"],["薛部長瑞元：報告委員，我們在食安法底下所設的食安基金，其實是可以協助民眾來做這一方面的工作，也就是他的法律相關事務的費用我們是可以給予補助的，可能需要經過團體訴訟這樣子。"],["楊委員曜：也就從把關到善後，政府都有一定的責任在。謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝楊曜委員的質詢。接下來請林淑芬委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":296,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-2","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","林月琴","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","盧縣一","劉建國","王正旭","楊曜","林淑芬","陳雪生","洪孟楷","謝衣鳯","陳瑩","王鴻薇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","林德福"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅\n事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130601_00008"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.45659375,"end":5.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.865343750000001,"end":7.810343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.345343750000001,"end":15.032843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.25221875,"end":50.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.17909375,"end":53.423468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.76096875,"end":55.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.376593750000005,"end":56.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.000968750000006,"end":58.570343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.16096875,"end":59.633468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.291593750000004,"end":66.33284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.95784375,"end":63.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.92784375000001,"end":66.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.80534375,"end":70.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.97346875000001,"end":74.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.97284375000001,"end":83.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.78159375,"end":83.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.96721875,"end":84.01784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.01784375000001,"end":85.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.35096875,"end":87.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.15659375,"end":87.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.32534375,"end":87.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.34221875,"end":87.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.35909375,"end":87.42659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.49409375,"end":88.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.23659375000001,"end":88.25346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.40534375,"end":88.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.72596875,"end":89.92409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.70034375,"end":91.42596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.03346875000001,"end":92.50596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.89409375000001,"end":94.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.69971875,"end":118.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.98909375000001,"end":106.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.44284375000001,"end":130.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.16659375,"end":131.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.36471875,"end":133.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.23784375,"end":140.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.13971875000001,"end":142.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.10159375,"end":142.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主席請教薛部長好 請部長"},{"start":14.14,"end":35.954,"text":"部長好 部長我們就這一次中國的辣椒粉裡面添加了蘇丹紅也造成了一些後續的問題那我們大概在去年首次檢出違規的辣椒粉以後就依照"},{"start":36.915,"end":59.483,"text":"食品以及相關產品輸入查驗辦法提高抽驗的數量那我們是逐步提高20%然後50%然後到全面這樣子逐步查驗的比例跟是不是會查出更多有沒有"},{"start":60.879,"end":87.846,"text":"這一次是查出來越查越多,因為比例增高是越來越多但是如果說它本來就沒有那麼普遍的話提高這個抽驗比例應該是比例會越來越少所以就是假如說是比較大規模的違規事件就會隨著抽驗提高"},{"start":88.846,"end":117.654,"text":"提高他的案件數假如是偶發的反而會降低對不對也就是說並不是抽查的比例越高案件就越高啦要看個別的事件這個我想說是不是每一件都一樣那部長這樣子也是我知道"},{"start":118.547,"end":144.133,"text":"那我們我們現在大概我知道食藥署這邊有在研議要修正食品及相關產品的輸入輸入查驗辦法大概就是嚴重違規的太陽我們是打算要跳過加強抽驗跟逐批查驗直接禁止輸入對不對那這個違規嚴重違規的太陽"},{"start":148.356,"end":173.565,"text":"大概會是什麼情形?像蘇丹紅就屬於這類我們會有幾個判斷的依據第一個就是說那這一個產品發生違規的比例就是說它的頻率有多高第二就是說它造成人體的危害是有多重那第三個就是這種異常非常異常不應該出現在這一個食品裡面的東西"},{"start":175.646,"end":187.027,"text":"突然出現了,那這個部分的話可能也是屬於我們就先全面禁止可能會先提升到100%,如果100%還查到的話那就禁止了"},{"start":190.951,"end":205.119,"text":"像現在我們查驗到了以後因為有部分已經流入市場你們跟地方政府應該有要求地方政府要強化查驗的預警機制"},{"start":206.94,"end":227.431,"text":"對這些可能的漏網之魚,也就是說這幾家公司進來的產品在當時還沒有百分之一百抽批結果就讓他准他過的,我們就請地方政府再去把他回來抽驗如果有不合格的,那就還是通通要下架現在這個機制應該是存在"},{"start":232.21,"end":245.223,"text":"我提一個問題齁就是因為剛才我們大概就是按照違規的情況從20%到50%到100%所以人力的部分其實"},{"start":246.844,"end":263.381,"text":"因為邊境的茶宴,茶的項目也多,包括農藥的殘留量也都在裡面,所以範圍非常的廣,所以需要的人力很多。"},{"start":267.219,"end":286.554,"text":"在111年也就是2022年的時候我們輸入的食品重量是將近900萬公噸那個時候我們的茶宴的人數茶宴的人員是192人這個是111年的數字"},{"start":295.31,"end":317.841,"text":"相較於109年齁 相較於兩年前109年109年其實只有八十 八十一個就是等於我們在兩年裡面增加了 增加了兩倍的人力齁那 我知道 我知道這 這裡有部分的人力其實是透過前瞻預算"},{"start":319.798,"end":344.845,"text":"來補充的那現在前瞻預算可能快要結束了人力的問題部長這邊有沒有什麼構想我們在今年我們會來跟行政院這邊溝通希望說在因為這個食品進口的茶園的話工作是越來越繁重對"},{"start":345.985,"end":360.686,"text":"所以我們希望能夠增加人力這我們來跟行政院這邊爭取那如果爭取得到當然同時所需要的預算我們會編列進來在今年就編列進來那下個會期就會送到立法院來"},{"start":361.107,"end":383.514,"text":"部長這個應該要爭取到我相信不分黨派的委員也都會支持大家既然對於國人的食安的部分這麼重視人力不足是沒有辦法處理好很多事情的"},{"start":389.645,"end":397.491,"text":"市長我繼續問現在譬如說蘇丹紅違規的廠商那大概已經雲林地鐵署已經有開始在啟動偵查那這是刑事的部分"},{"start":414.984,"end":433.371,"text":"民眾因為食品安全的關係所以他可能會有對自己身體有一些傷害那這裡有關民事的部分有兩個問題第一個問題就是"},{"start":437.836,"end":460.837,"text":"其實食品安全的民事訴訟最困難的就是怎麼建構跟證明它的因果關係 對不對這個很困難 第二個就是它有的時候譬如說像塑化劑、山劇清安這種半衰期相對短"},{"start":463.206,"end":473.873,"text":"那到檢驗的時候其實很難驗出來也就是說他在民事訴訟的難度是很高的"},{"start":479.281,"end":505.991,"text":"我們這邊有沒有協助民眾提起團體訴訟的機制?報告委員我們在食安法裡面底下所設的食安基金其實是可以協助民眾來做這一方面的工作也就是說它的法律的相關的一些事務的費用的話我們是可以給予補助的那主要是如果可能這時候需要經過團體訴訟這樣子"},{"start":508.049,"end":520.925,"text":"好 這個就是我們從把關到善後政府都有一定的責任在好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 我們謝謝楊耀委員的質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}