{"error":false,"id":["149253"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149253,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149253","日期":"2024-03-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-04T11:47:50+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-04T12:00:31+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:41","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2dddd1ab2805fd8e2762a874ae98c1f56169f8ba9b0039caa7a6388debce7e7cfb5a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳超明","委員發言時間":"11:47:50 - 12:00:31","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日、3月6日及7日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":961,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時48分）主席，首先請農業部陳部長。"],["主席：謝謝，請部長。"],["陳代理部長駿季：委員早！"],["陳委員超明：陳部長，現在是看守內閣，你什麼時候會升職？還是等著新的人選來擔任部長，告訴我一下？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我從來沒有想過這個問題。"],["陳委員超明：不是，現在是我問你，不是你從來有沒有講，你也不敢亂講，對不對？你已經是胸有成竹，大概沒有問題，對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：完全沒有概念。"],["陳委員超明：完全沒有概念，好，為官之道就是像你這樣，雖然不講，但是心中自有打算。","今天要請教你的第一個問題，我要拜託陳部長關於苗栗的漁業建設，首先是關於龍鳳漁港直銷中心的改建，當初你們的大陳部長陳吉仲說原則同意、非常贊同我的計畫，而且陳次長也一道去了，現在他已經離開，我只有從大陳轉到小陳的身上。這個3月底我們苗栗縣政府要提出成果報告，我希望你能全力支持，像以前的陳吉仲部長一樣。"],["陳代理部長駿季：站在農業部的立場，我們一定支持。"],["陳委員超明：我們張署長都記得很清楚，當初是有答應的，不要他人走了之後，你們就把他的話忘了！這樣你們就不夠朋友、不夠義氣喔！"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們農業部還是會支持，等地方政府的規劃案送上來的時候，我們再一起討論。"],["陳委員超明：一定會送上來，3月底要提出成果報告。這裡面的漁貨中心是2.9億元、周邊漁業改善是4.6億元，一共才7.5億元，這筆錢對你們而言不算大，你看高雄的前鎮漁港花了多少錢、南方澳的漁港花了多少錢、梧棲漁港花了多少錢？我們那個地方非常特殊，只有你這個陳部長還沒有下去，張署長去了好幾次，我邀你去參觀一下、了解一下，這個計畫是具體可行，而且是有效果的。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我向委員說明，因為漁港有分一類漁港、二類漁港，整個大概有220個港口、9個一類漁港，在一類漁港的部分，特別是你剛剛提到的前鎮，因為它是整個遠洋漁港的基地，所以它的功能跟性質是不一樣的。"],["陳委員超明：我曉得，只是這個錢不多嘛！它那個錢多嘛！你要支持……"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，性質不一樣，所以我說我們會支持，然後看看它所提的規劃……"],["陳委員超明：我告訴你，它發揮的效益會很大，我從來不亂做事情的，好不好？拜託！"],["陳代理部長駿季：是，我們會看它的規劃。"],["陳委員超明：不然等下邱志偉又說我的話講得很長啊！","再來，我推了八年的後龍雜糧專區，已經討論了八年，也已經通過國發會的審議，但是最後被行政院退回，我覺得行政院退回對我們地方農民的傷害很大。這個雜糧專區八年來經過部長、農糧署、林業署及地方的共同討論，大家都告訴我沒有問題，結果上次審查只有臺南的梅嶺專區通過。他說陳超明選立法委員時競爭得很激烈，南部可以過、苗栗不能過，我覺得這樣很不對。"],["陳代理部長駿季：向委員說明，我們針對這些產業專區本身，特別是有保安林解編的部分，絕對不會因為委員個人的政治因素而有影響，我們會考慮到產業的需求性、我們會……"],["陳委員超明：當然你是這麼講，但是感受不一樣。當初行政院也是信誓旦旦，卻突然就改變了。"],["陳代理部長駿季：沒有，我想……"],["陳委員超明：我相信你說的是官方的話，我們心中自有定見。我奮鬥了八年，從蔡英文擔任總統到現在要卸任，這件事情都無法完成，這個效率要怎麼講？剛剛邱志偉委員說他是執政黨、他要護航，我是在野黨，當然我要多講一些啊！應該有的到最後都變成沒有啊！"],["陳代理部長駿季：南部的那個部分，來來回回大概也十多年了。"],["陳委員超明：他說沒有經濟效益，其實你們不了解，沒有去看！我們白沙屯的拱天宮媽祖，一年有500萬的進香客，距離這邊不到1公里，而且好望角觀光風景區也都已經在推了，將來的效益很大。還有那個保安林也不可能恢復，什麼經濟效益，保安林幾百年來就是這個樣子，還要恢復種植，林業局長在那裡，比較不好意思，真是種了之後活得不怎麼好，天天農民都來與我吵架。部長，使一下力，我仍然會推出，好不好？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想還是再向委員說明一下，當我們的保安林解編之後變成產業專區，一個非常重要的前提是這個產業專區本身的必要性，現在相關產業專區的必要性與其面積，其實占國內雜糧的比例非常低，保安林還是有保安林存在的必要性，我們會協助在報院……"],["陳委員超明：那個地方占得很小啊！不會啦！幾百年都是這樣存在了。哦！你們這種政府……"],["陳代理部長駿季：我了解，那個地方我去過。"],["陳委員超明：那裡幾百年就是這樣，你也很難去恢復了，就算要種樹也種不起來，所以我告訴你要去地方了解一下，好不好？我會請那些評審委員下來了解一下，好不好？"],["陳代理部長駿季：好，我再下去。"],["陳委員超明：幫我加油，再協助我。"],["陳代理部長駿季：好。"],["陳委員超明：已經改了幾十次了。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我會針對行政院希望苗栗縣政府要處理的部分，我們來協助看看。"],["陳委員超明：害我被罵得很慘，本來票很高的，因為你們沒有通過，我的票就突然在那裡流失掉了，我的心裡很不甘願。","陳部長，我了解你的背景，你從農業試驗所一直過來的嘛！"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員超明：怎麼那麼快！沒有關係，我尊重邱志偉的說法，因為他是執政黨，而我是在野黨，我要多講一些，不然我在選舉時被欺負得很慘！","你在這裡面談到一個抗耐逆境作物示範區，而且你也特別讓我看了，除了穩固網室的內容之外，你說開發調適的技術有93項，育成抗耐逆境作物有87種，但是我不曾看過你們用這87種做為抗耐逆境作物，因為我對這個很重視，偶然從一份資料中讀到工研院的資料，在苗栗我要求栽種烏腳綠竹筍，現在青農有種起來，他說種的與預估的一樣，大概3年才能收成，要試驗它的甜度，如果海邊能將竹子與竹筍種起來，將會整個改變海邊只能種木麻黃的現象，我很重視這個，所以你對這個要特別的關注一下。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員超明：但是我看你們似乎並不重視？"],["陳代理部長駿季：向委員說明，我也是來自試驗單位，非常了解國內的試驗單位本身的育種能力，而且他們的確也育出不同的耐逆境品種，特別是在海邊可能要耐鹽、耐風。"],["陳委員超明：對，我有讀過，所以特別選了這種，並不是隨隨便便的問你。"],["陳代理部長駿季：目前有非常多像是……"],["陳委員超明：你下來參觀一下。"],["陳代理部長駿季：好。"],["陳委員超明：如果種得活，你們一定要大量的在那邊推廣。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我會帶我們的相關單位下去那邊，針對農業地區的沿岸……"],["陳委員超明：對，我覺得這是有價值的經濟產物。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是，了解。"],["陳委員超明：所以我一直盯著，而且比你們還努力。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們一起努力。"],["陳委員超明：抱歉！我要多講一些，因為我是在野黨。這次小犬颱風來了之後，我發覺一個問題，本來可以高票當選，結果這個政府的農業部把我搞得慘兮兮，頭非常痛。我們苑裡地區稱為苗栗的農倉，每年的稻米收穫是苗栗縣排名第一，在它的隔壁是大安區，這次小犬颱風過後，同一個地區，大安區有農業保險的賠償，隔壁的苑裡沒有賠償，同樣的一個地區，苑裡是苗栗的農倉，結果說是因為以前申報產量時苑裡報的太低，大安區報的太高，但是我相信苑裡的收穫比大安區還要好，它是都市型，那些農民不怎麼努力，只等著土地漲，我們這邊是農業的縣市，苑裡農民種的稻作真的是很好，也算是苗栗縣最高的，結果那邊有補償，這邊的保險卻沒有補償，又是那個老問題。聽說有一個執政黨的立法委員去選，說要編列農業保險有補償，我在苑裡地區競選，算是比較主角，結果沒有通過。在這個問題之後我去了解鄉鎮市公所報的地方到底標不標準，我也一直要求你們改善，因為鄉鎮公所有努力與不努力的，我最後問的情形是有的縣市五年稻穀的產量是隨便亂報，我希望你能重新評估一下，這樣你了解我說的意思嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我了解。報告委員，農業保險本身是根據坪割或全割的產量與過去五年相比，五年的資料是農業統計年報，它是唯一公開的資訊。"],["陳委員超明：誰替你報的？"],["陳代理部長駿季：以苑裡來講，雖然領不到農業保險，但是天然災害救助有領到。"],["陳委員超明：天然災害救助只有一部分的啦！它是全鄉補償。"],["陳代理部長駿季：而且我們的取樣點……"],["陳委員超明：部長，我要向你強調，天然災害的部分是我去處理的，因為我答應下來，所以講話算話。你們一直講農業保險很困難，好，有災害，但是大安區沒有災害卻全鄉補償，所以苑裡鎮的農民一直煩我，說我不夠力、說我怎麼樣啊！"],["陳代理部長駿季：報告委員，就算天然災害開了，也有20%是鄉公所要現勘，並不是免現勘。"],["陳委員超明：對啦！"],["陳代理部長駿季：所以實際有損失的，我想整個天然災害救助會到位。"],["陳委員超明：大安區有全鄉損失，苑裡鎮就沒有全鄉損失，在隔壁耶！大安區與苑裡鎮只隔一條大安溪，有差別那麼大？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們瞭解區域環境是不一樣的。"],["陳委員超明：我只要求重新評估，不是要補償，我們以後的產量，你現在趕快去做，不然苑裡永遠拿不到農業保險，產量最高卻永遠拿不到，好不好？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們可以再去檢視苑裡……"],["陳委員超明：第三次了，我會不好意思，謝謝！拜託幫我處理一下！"],["主席：謝謝！","接下來請賴瑞隆委員發言。謝謝議事組人員，幫我們把麥克風關小，不然今天早上的聲音都很大，所以就關小一點，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":124,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-2","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","林岱樺","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","呂玉玲","蔡易餘","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra 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港的一個母基地它的功能不一樣的所以我說我們會支持然後看看他所提的規則我跟你講他發揮的效益會很大我從來不亂做事情好不好拜託"},{"start":186.013,"end":202.428,"text":"不然等一下邱志文說我話講得很長啊再來我推了八年的厚隆雜糧專區已經討論了八年已經通過國會審議但是最後被行政院推了"},{"start":203.393,"end":216.99,"text":"我覺得行政院退回的話對我們地方農民的傷害很大那這雜糧專機8年來我經過部長、農娘市、林業市、地方共同討論大家都跟我講沒有問題"},{"start":218.528,"end":246.542,"text":"結果上次審查只有臺南的民主專區過他說陳超明選立法委員的時候競爭的很激烈藍部可以過苗栗不能過我感覺這就不對了我跟委員說明我們在針對這些產業專區本身特別是保安理解變的部分絕對不會因為委員個人的當然你是這麼講但是感受不一樣你們當初說陳正恩信誓旦旦突然就跟我改變了"},{"start":247.362,"end":272.484,"text":"我最先你說的是官方的話我們心中只有我睡到半年了蔡英文當總統到她要卸任的時候都沒有完成這個效力我要怎麼來講所以剛剛執事委員他說啊他是在野黨、他是執政黨、我是在野黨當然我要多講一些啊應該有的到最後都變沒有啊"},{"start":274.11,"end":290.457,"text":"南部的那個部分大概他也大概來來回回大概10多年了他講經濟效益沒有其實你們不了解沒有去看我們白沙屯的鳳天宮啊白沙屯罵幾年500萬的進香客他到這邊只有不到1公里"},{"start":291.497,"end":318.717,"text":"還有好望角觀光風景期也全部在推了將來的效益很大還有你那個保安你不可能給你恢復什麼經濟效益你保安你幾百年來就是這樣子還要恢復種林業吉長在那比較不好意思真的種的不怎麼那個活的好天天農民都來跟我吵架所以部長十一下例我農黨會推出來好不好"},{"start":319.747,"end":346.14,"text":"我想還是再跟委員說明一下當我們的保安林解編以後變成產業專區我們一個非常重要的前提這個產業專區本身它的必要性那相關的現在的產業專區的必要性跟它的面積其實它佔國內的那個雜糧的比例非常低那保安林還是有保安林存在的必要性所以我們會協助就是說那個地方佔的很小不會啦幾百人就這樣存在的你這個政府好像"},{"start":349.741,"end":362.408,"text":"我拉幾百年就這樣,你要去恢復也難恢復啊,還要種樹木也種不起來啊,不是我跟您講的。哈,一定了解一下,好不好。我要請那些評審委員下來了解一下。"},{"start":364.701,"end":366.642,"text":"陳部長,我瞭解你背景。你從農業試驗所一直過來了。怎麼那麼快?"},{"start":391.55,"end":401.906,"text":"沒有關係 出資委我尊重他的說法因為他執政黨 我在野黨 我要多講一些啊 不然我選舉被欺負得很慘你這裡面"},{"start":404.761,"end":432.381,"text":"裏面有談到一個抗逆境作物示範區你又特別專長我看了除了穩固往事的內容但是這裏面你說開挖調試的機制有93項一層抗耐逆境作物有87種我不看了你拿這87種做抗耐逆境作物因為我這很重視"},{"start":433.522,"end":448.661,"text":"因為我從偶然一個資料讀到公園院的資料那在苗栗我要求栽種烏角綠栗子省的來栽培現在青龍有種起來他說種的跟義姑的一樣"},{"start":450.2,"end":474.968,"text":"大概3年才能收成那要試驗它的甜度因為那個植子跟那個植繩的種起來如果海邊能種起來那是整個改變海邊你只能種木馬黃的現象我很重視這個所以這個在這邊啦你要特別的關注一下但是我看你們好像沒東西"},{"start":476.697,"end":488.248,"text":"我跟委員說明我也是來自試驗單位我非常了解我們國內的試驗單位本身的育種能力而且他們也的確育出不同的耐逆境的品種特別在海邊的話可能要耐鹽還有耐風"},{"start":490.831,"end":491.831,"text":"那這是小潛颱風的時候"},{"start":520.558,"end":540.72,"text":"我發覺一個問題本來可以高票當選結果發覺哇這個政府你們農業部把我搞得慘兮兮頭非常痛我們縣裡地區叫做苗栗的農場他那邊的農民他那邊種的稻田每年的收入是苗栗縣排名第一"},{"start":542.768,"end":559.257,"text":"他的隔壁是大安區這次小前台灣來的時候那個叫大安區好像是大安隔壁那個叫什麼區我們那個後龍同一個地區大安區有賠償"},{"start":569.642,"end":592.908,"text":"有農業保險的一個賠償,隔壁的燕里沒有賠償同樣的一個地區,燕里是苗栗的農場結果他說因為以前在報的時候,產量的時候燕里報的太低,大安區報的太高但是我相信我們燕里的時候比大安區還要好"},{"start":593.908,"end":614.138,"text":"他都是行的。他那些農民不怎麼努力等著土地長。我們這邊是比較農業縣市的。我們院裡的農民種的稻真的是很好。也算苗栗縣最高的一個地。阿這邊有補償、阿這邊保險沒有補償。又是那個老問題。"},{"start":615.88,"end":630.596,"text":"聽說有一個立法委員去選了,你們執政黨的,所以農業保險有補償。我的縣裡第7一會我再選,我算比較直角,結果沒有通過。我這裏面一個問題最好瞭解。"},{"start":636.246,"end":658.829,"text":"鄉鎮公所報的地方到底那個標準不標準我一直要求你們改善每一個地區因為鄉鎮公所有牡蠣跟沒有牡蠣的所以它五年的那個稻穀的產量報出來有的先是隨便亂報我這又問了情形我希望你重新評估一下"},{"start":660.633,"end":680.16,"text":"你這樣了解我講的意思嗎?稍微等一下,等一下,我再回答你,你隨時回答我一下,就是你講的提供服務,來我向委員報告,我們農業保險本身,我們是根據我們的一個平割或全割的產量,跟過去5年相比"},{"start":680.916,"end":705.121,"text":"那5年的資料是農業統計聯報的他是唯一公開的一個資訊啊誰替你報的然後我們本身吼像以院理來講吼雖然他的農業保險領不到但是天然災害救助他有領導天然災害只有一部分的啦他是全箱補償而且我們的取樣點不不不那個部長我安若跟你強調天然災害是我去處理我答應下來我講話算話"},{"start":706.821,"end":733.044,"text":"你們一直講農業的保險很困難好有災害那大安區沒有災害全鄉補償啊所以那個彥旅鎮的農民都在煩惱說我不夠力我怎麼樣啊報告委員部就算天然災害開了他20%也是鄉公所要去現勘的不是說免現勘啊對啦所以實際有損失的我想整個天然災害就會到位大安區有全鄉損失彥旅鎮就沒有全鄉損失在隔壁捏"},{"start":734.121,"end":761.049,"text":"謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}