{"error":false,"id":["149272"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149272,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149272","日期":"2024-03-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-04T11:22:19+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-04T11:33:06+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:47","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd24758a19240c0271e0c93a942a018238f8ba9b0039caa7a6c0e5c612942c44225ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"11:22:19 - 11:33:06","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月4日及7日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":569,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時22分）好，我想請主委。"],["主席：有請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，委員早。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，主委早。今天很多委員都提到這個問題，總質詢時我也有問過院長，目前我們臺灣已經有詐騙之島的稱號，這個問題今天很多委員也都提到了，我想問一下，對金管會來說，我們國人的詐騙案件如此地大量，而且增加的幅度也不小，問題到底出在哪裡？"],["黃主任委員天牧：在行政院阻詐平臺有幾個面向，金管會是屬於阻詐的部分，除了金流阻詐，識詐也做了一些事情，金流大概就是在臨櫃、網路跟轉帳方面，我們做好把關的工作。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以主委還是沒有辦法說明清楚為什麼詐騙對臺灣人特別有效？因為……"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實……"],["黃委員珊珊：詐騙案件不斷地變化、多元化，甚至有新興的所謂投資詐騙越來越猖獗，投資詐騙在臺灣現在已經成為詐騙案件的主力了對吧？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，所以我們去年修投信投顧法第七十之一條。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯，也就是說這表示民眾是有投資的需要，但是他沒有投資的知識或者是相關的素養。金管會在金融素養方面應該是主管業者吧！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是我們的責任。"],["黃委員珊珊：你們也發布了所謂的金融知識普級工作第7期的推動工作，所以金融素養推動是你們金管會的重要業務之一，我看到你的報告也這樣寫對吧？"],["黃主任委員天牧：而且不只是我們做，是跨部會跟公司合夥一起做。"],["黃委員珊珊：就像我們剛剛講的，這麼多人被詐騙，這麼多人容易上當，這當中有一個很嚴重的就是我們對於所謂的金融或投資的素養不足的情況，金融研訓院2022年公布臺灣金融生活調查，這裡面統計起來有高達四成20到29歲的年輕人是接近金融文盲，也就是說20到29歲年輕人幾乎對於金融沒有任何概念，這是現實的狀態，這也是國人在金融素養上面很大的缺口，金管會有什麼看法？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這表示其實我們過去所做的還有再努力的空間，請委員多指導。"],["黃委員珊珊：是的，這個調查結果我看了非常地詫異，20到29歲年輕人幾乎有四成是金融文盲，所以年輕族群現在成為投資詐騙的主要高風險族群。那在高風險裡面，對於他們沒有財金素養這件事情，我們的國家其實沒有相關的目標或者是規劃。在此跟主委分享一個經驗，我們曾經在臺北市的高中推動所謂財金素養課程，我們是請臺大的教授，然後找了非常多業界的業師進到高中裡面提供財金素養的選修課，一開始是用試辦的方式，後來到現在為止，臺北、臺中、新北高中裡面都有所謂財金素養的課程。它差異最大的是，因為一般教育單位他們給的鐘點費一個小時是400塊，但是這些業師他不太可能為了400塊去學校上課，所以我當時在臺北市擔任副市長的時候，我們是去找相關的基金會募了一些款，所以業師的講師費大概是一個小時3,000塊，這個已經在臺北市三分之二的高中成為選修課，目前推廣到臺中跟新北。所以主委，這些是財金素養進入高中的一個方法，金管會剛剛講這是你的業管，第二個金融知識普及工作也是你的主管業務，這個工作能不能請金管會跟教育部，甚至各地方政府的教育單位一起來把財金素養列為重要的高中選修課程？"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員分享您非常成功的臺北經驗，其實我也要跟您報告，過去十幾年來，我們走入校園從小學到大學有超過100萬人次，也是跟教育部合作。但是我想委員您的經驗一定有我們可以學習的地方，我們可以再跟您多請教。"],["黃委員珊珊：主委，就是我剛剛講嘛，從小學到大學做到現在有四成是文盲啊！所以如果可以在高中，因為現在課綱修正之後是可以有很多素養課程，這個是已經實行過，所以您今天可以答應我說在金融知識普及工作裡面，你們可以編定相關的預算來協助我剛剛講的類似在高中裡面選修課程的財金素養課程嗎？或者是說一樣也請相關的業界，我們當律師的每年都有公益法律服務的時數規定，如果可能的話，金管會是不是可以透過類似的做法，要求金融相關從業人員每年有一定協助這樣子的教育推動，也有一些公益服務的時數，也可以成為將來跟公私協力來推動所謂財金素養，至少在我們的教育方面，在我們的年輕人的財金素養上面，有一天的報告不會是四成是文盲。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員您的垂詢我們會全力以赴，但是有些不足的地方會……"],["黃委員珊珊：你要給錢，還要找人，好嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個我們都有相關周邊單位一起合作。"],["黃委員珊珊：我希望在新政府上任之後，這件事情成為金管會重要的推動方向之一。"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["黃委員珊珊：詐騙之島要從臺灣的惡名中除去，我們要先讓下一代對於他將來的理財有一些基本的概念，對於投資有一些基本的知識，而不會輕易地受騙上當，這是第一步而已。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：第二個部分，請問主委，融資公司歸不歸你管？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前不是。"],["黃委員珊珊：不是？那你覺得你該不該管？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實過去在96年、97年到107年都有報過行政院，但都沒有……"],["黃委員珊珊：主委，那你有沒有看過有一個影片叫做山道猴子？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有看過。"],["黃委員珊珊：對啊！對於那個年輕人，就剛剛講年輕人的財金素養有一定的差距，免頭款、全貸款，還有多貸一筆錢去改裝車子，所以不斷地用車子去借了更多的錢。融資公司在臺灣已經成為金融體系化外之地了，你同意嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員您的垂詢我們有做處理，那個影片所揭露的事情有些……"],["黃委員珊珊：我現在要講的是，這些融資公司已經是我們的影子銀行了，這個影子銀行不斷地做大，在臺北市租賃商業同業公會光2022年他們的融資金額在臺北市一個城市高達7,253億，在臺北市登記有案的融資金額高達7,000億。主委，如果一個融資公司是這麼大的系統，它是不是一個很龐大的類似金融體系的相關系統，而他們在金融監管以外，現在是全臺灣最大的影子銀行。目前我們有三大，一個是中租，一個是裕融，一個是和潤，他們的資產已經高達1兆5,000億，然後他們的應收帳款，也就是放在外面的錢高達1兆，目前沒有人管，你也不管，那請問這是誰在管？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我分兩部分跟您報告，這三家都是上市公司，針對上市公司，交易所本來就會用內控的角度去做查核，包括它的財務。第二點，我們前一段時間有約談這三家公司，其中包括一家公司也對那個影片中的事實做了一個重訊提出澄清。"],["黃委員珊珊：主委，現在的問題就在於因為它沒有基本進入所謂的金融機構相關體系，像金管會這樣嚴格的管控，但是它涉及的規模、金流卻非常非常重大，你現在納管的叫電子支付，1年的金額是2,400億，然後接下去我們現在正在規範的叫做虛擬通貨平臺，也訂了一個辦法。也就是說，目前金額、規模都不到那麼大的情況下都納管了，融資租賃公司沒有道理淪落在銀行或金管會之外，也就是你兩千多億的也管，三百多億的也管，但就是不管這個上兆的金融資產，亦即所謂的融資租賃公司，這樣合理嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我跟委員報告，如果我說的不對，請您指正。因為您說的這個金額其實很多都是物的融資，那您所謂這些年輕人的部分到底比例多少，這個還要再去確認。"],["黃委員珊珊：主委，我只有一個要求，包括電子支付、包括虛擬資產，金管會都做了最低成數的監管，針對融資租賃公司，我覺得至少要比照虛擬資產業者做洗防聲明，還有相關的基本最低程度的納管，你同意嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這我們已經做了，2018評鑑的時候就已經歸給我們了。"],["黃委員珊珊：金管會把融資租賃也納管，這才是我們今天最大的需求，如果可以的話，請主委把這個列為未來的工作重點好嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們可以研究，我跟您報告……"],["黃委員珊珊：別再研究了吧，這個已經存在幾十年了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：現在公司登記有融資業務的有六千八百多家，到底這個東西的範圍跟它的定義是什麼，我們還要再確定，我們要管什麼、是不是要管，這個東西要再……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我只要求最低的就好，以上，謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃珊珊委員的質詢，接著請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-2","speakers":["郭國文","吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","賴惠員","王鴻薇","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","李彥秀","謝衣鳯","葛如鈞","邱志偉","黃國昌","林楚茵","羅明才","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":269,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相\n關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集\n中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130701_00005"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.72596875,"end":8.535968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.24471875,"end":12.484718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.906593750000003,"end":13.969718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.189093750000001,"end":20.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.12471875,"end":24.044093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.80346875,"end":26.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.824093750000003,"end":29.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.76471875,"end":32.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.92034375,"end":34.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.877843750000004,"end":36.227843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.96596875,"end":52.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.96784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