{"error":false,"id":["149295"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149295,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149295","日期":"2024-03-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-04T13:03:10+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-04T13:16:23+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:13","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd708389ef5fdb41cc4df0e2384efaf28bf8ba9b0039caa7a61380563e3f1c2fe45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"13:03:10 - 13:16:23","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請海洋委員會主任委員、大陸委員會主任委員、國防部及海軍司令部參謀長就「金門撞船案:翻船執法過程及後續處理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1306,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（13時3分）謝謝我們召委，我們與會同仁。現在我請我們的海巡署，周署長。"],["主席：有請海巡署周署長。"],["周副主任委員美伍：召委好。"],["吳委員琪銘：署長好。署長，我們都針對議題。今天我看了很多同仁質詢的爭議，就是我們的三無船舶的問題。整個三無船舶，其實我們都知道它是越線，然後整個以我們的常理來判斷，撞船跟擦撞又是不一樣，你撞船的話，你前面一定會有凹陷，這是我們最基本的常理。那大家的爭議，我們整個船隻現在都是由檢調……已經都扣船了，大家也可以看得出來，很多記者也在報，那個船也沒有什麼凹陷，只是一個那個漆、有漆的那個痕跡，那整個事情都是一個很單純。","現在我看到我們今天的同仁都變成有點政治化，所以在整個過程，我也希望透過影片，讓我們社會大眾還有我們的媒體、我們的先進知道整個事件的來龍去脈。為什麼我會找署長上來，因為你是最前線，你當初最清楚。所以我希望這個事件也讓全國民眾知道，這個事件為什麼會發生，整個包含我們後續的救援，大家都是盡心盡力。我們的海巡也沒有說棄之不顧，也沒有啊！所以就很單純的一個事件，我希望各位同仁不要太過政治化，因為我知道，真的海巡弟兄在海上、在執勤，大家都非常辛苦，這一點我是非常的肯定，因為是維護我們的主權。所以你在維護主權的當中難免，都是希望說與對岸大家來做個協調、來做個溝通，大家都是很善意的來處理這個禍事，現在我也透過我的影片，讓大家知道好不好？","（播放影片）","好的，我透過這個影片給我們各位媒體來做參考，其實海巡單位真的非常的辛苦，所以你看一個三無船舶，第一，他們的船隻本身就有問題，就是一個非法的船隻，又越過我們的中線，就比如說我們已經超線過來，然後我們也基於維護國家主權在執行，所以我們也要體諒到海巡署同仁大家的辛苦，所以今天針對這個問題，我也請海巡署署長將整個來做說明，不過我們也基於檢調偵查不公開，偵查不公開的情形，我們還是要知道檢調基於偵查不公開，我們的署長也是逼於無奈不能講太多，但是起碼可以公開的，由署長跟社會大眾來做說明，好不好？"],["周副主任委員美伍：謝謝委員給我們這個機會說明。我想剛剛透過艦隊分署這個影片，大家可以了解，那就是我們平常如果要登檢，那就是我們平常在做的事情。往往在這個過程當中受傷的是我們的同仁，我們的風險比他們還大，各位不知道剛剛有沒有看到，他們的漁船刻意的從兩舷戳出這個鋼管，而且那個漁船都有做好的洞，它看到我們海巡來的時候，它把它所有的鋼管戳出去，讓我們的船要接近的時候會登不上他的船，為什麼？它有伸出那個鋼管，先把我們撞破，它有一段距離，剛剛各位可以看出來，最明顯的一個……"],["主席：署長，對不起，稍微要說明一下，這個影片是你們這一次的影片嗎？是這次的撞船影片嗎？請你說明一下好不好？"],["周副主任委員美伍：不是，我特別說明，我們剛剛特別講的就是在登檢的過程中，我們過去登檢的經驗當中，就是像我們剛剛影片所播的一個狀況。另外我講個最明顯的案例，就今年的中秋節，在我們臺北港外大概10到12海浬左右，陸方的一艘漁船也是在這邊越界捕魚，在我們的領海之內。我們的海巡艇也是接到命令之後過去驅離，但它完全不接受驅離，就一直對著我們來做碰撞，在這個碰撞過程中，我們海巡艇10088這個編號我還記得，因為那天是中秋節，我正好也在署裡面，那天整個的過程同仁在這個接近的過程當中是非常的危險。","像這樣子的案例，陸方也都非常的能夠遵照我們過往處理的經驗，它也是透由律師，然後來跟我們談賠償，因為它違法在先，所以它也同意，對於我們的維修費、對於我們的這些東西，都能夠有賠償。","我特別舉這個案例就是說我們兩岸過去在這樣子的一個案例當中，是很多很多的案例，我們之間有一個執法的默契，那我們在各個事項或者事證釐清之後，雙方都會做出應有的處置，我們一直都是本著這個原則。所以我要一再的強調，我們跟對方的海巡也好，海洋執法支隊也好，都一直保持這樣子的默契，特別是在金門海域的執法，我特別跟各位報告，去年一年的協同執法的頻率就高達49次。這裡面，我們驅離是居多的，他們的扣留是居多的，它在它的海域發現三無船舶之後，就立刻扣留，其實我這邊都有數據，因為每次雙方都會做一個報告，這次我們協同執法，我扣留了幾艘船、我取締了些什麼東西，我把一些漁網重新給它拉起來或怎麼樣，消除了多少違規的漁網，因為這些漁網都會影響到金廈水域的航行安全，廈門港的進出是非常頻繁的，所以中國大陸也希望我們能夠在這個水域一直維持正常的運作。在航道上這些非法的活動或者布網或者是放蟹籠這些東西，都是不被允許的，不僅僅是我們海巡要做這些工作，地方的執法支隊也在做這些事情，我們的金門縣政府也有委託，它也有專門的船隻出去收這些漁網或什麼，它在執行的時候也都會請海巡來配合。","所以在這樣子一個執法的氛圍之下，我們是希望能夠保持一個好的漁場的環境，讓雙方的漁民都能夠合法的在這邊進行他的捕撈作業，我想這是我們一直以來跟對方一直保有的互動方式，這是我要特別先說明的。那這一次的三無船舶在進入到我方的禁限制水域，所謂禁限制水域就是它已經進入到我們的領水，那進入到這邊之後，我們海巡隊員很明顯的就可以看出來，因為它沒有船名，因為我們海巡同仁在這方面的執法已經有幾十年的經驗，他第一時間就可以判定它是一個無船名、就是三無的船舶，所以他馬上就廣播驅離警告。我們一開始的動作還是希望它能夠儘速離開，但是後續它產生一些高速脫離的現象，我們才會採取後續這樣子準備登檢的動作，在準備登檢的過程當中，就會發生像剛剛我們影片所發生那種，因為互相……一個是逃跑，一個是追逐，這樣子互動的狀況之下，難免會有一些擦碰，我想這個一定會有，所以我們在這一次的檢調對於兩艘船查扣之後，請這些相關的單位來做查驗的時候，兩方有明顯的擦撞，各留油漆，因為如果我們擦撞到它，它的油漆會到我們的這個船體上，我們的油漆會到它的船體上，而且我們這都已經送到台北刑事警察局，它都已經幫我們驗了，都已經查驗完畢了，這個地方明顯的有兩個油漆互擦、擦撞的一個地方，據我所知有兩處，當然以檢調為準，就是他們的左船尾跟我們的右船首，這些都是在調查的過程當中，整個的事件的過程跟證物，跟所有我們勘驗的結果，這些資料我們都請相關的公證單位來做第三方的公證，這個公證可能要由檢調去請，我們不能請，因為我們是當事人，因為我們是一個甲方跟一個乙方。","所以今天有一位委員問到為什麼是海巡署的副署長在負責來談論這件事情。因為我們是甲方，他們是乙方，我們是當事人、我們是當事人，我們必須要把這個事件做一個善意的解決，所以我們不得不出面，畢竟是我們的船隻跟陸方在海上因為追逐、因為我們執法造成兩個陸人的一個溺斃事件，所以我們當然要用這樣負責任的態度來處理。"],["吳委員琪銘：好的，謝謝，謝謝我們海巡署的署長，各位媒體聽到我們海巡署署長所描述的整個過程，我們現在應該都要相信我們的檢方、檢調的調查，整個調查出來我們再來做評論，應該這樣比較合理，也謝謝我們的召委，謝謝我們同仁，感謝各位。"],["主席：謝謝吳琪銘召委的質詢，也謝謝署長的回應。繼續我們請陳雪生委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":328,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-2","speakers":["高金素梅","傅崐萁","陳雪生","王美惠","洪孟楷","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","麥玉珍","徐欣瑩","丁學忠","許宇甄","張智倫","黃建賓","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","吳琪銘","沈伯洋","羅智強","賴士葆","吳沛憶","李坤城","鄭天財Sra 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市長我們都針對議題今天我看了很多的同仁大家都執行的爭議就是我們的珊瑚船舶的問題那整個珊瑚船舶其實我們都知道它是越線然後整個以我們的常理來判斷"},{"start":35.509,"end":35.529,"text":"吳琪銘議員"},{"start":59.212,"end":86.091,"text":"只是一個那個漆有漆的那個痕跡那整個事情都是一個很單純那現在我看到我們今天的同仁都變成有點政治化所以在整個過程我也希望透過影片讓我們社會大眾還有我們的媒體我們的先進大家來知道整個事件的來龍去脈因為為什麼我會找署長上來因為你是最前線"},{"start":87.112,"end":87.152,"text":"吳琪銘議員吳琪銘議員"},{"start":114.687,"end":116.849,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":143.729,"end":143.91,"text":"主席"},{"start":240.837,"end":240.857,"text":"吳琪銘"},{"start":253.562,"end":280.511,"text":"三股船舶第一他們的船隻本身就有問題這是一個非法的船隻那又越過我們的中線就比如說我們已經超線過來然後我們的基於我們的維護我們的國家主權在執行所以我們要體諒到我們的海巡署我們的同仁大家的辛苦所以"},{"start":281.092,"end":308.85,"text":"今天我們就針對這個問題我也請海巡署署長來將整個來做說明因為我們的基於說偵查檢調偵查不公開偵查不公開的情形我們還是要知道說檢調基於偵查不公開我們的署長也是必以無奈不能講太多但是起碼可以公開的我署長來跟社會大眾來做說明好不好是"},{"start":309.571,"end":328.509,"text":"謝謝委員給我們這個機會說明那我想剛剛透過艦隊分屬這個影片大家可以了解那個就是我們平常如果要登檢那就是我們平常在做的事情那往往在這個過程當中受傷的是我們的同仁"},{"start":329.15,"end":350.451,"text":"我們的風險比他們還大各位我不知道剛剛有沒有看到他們的漁船刻意地從兩旋戳出這個鋼管而且那個漁船都有做好的洞他要看到我們海軍來的時候他把他所有的鋼管戳出去讓這個船要跟我們我們的船要接近的時候"},{"start":351.232,"end":368.866,"text":"你登不上他的船,為什麼?他有伸出那個鋼管,先把我們撞破,他有一段距離,剛剛各位可以看出來。吳琪,請張偉要說明一下,這個影片是你們這一次的影片嗎?這次的撞船影片嗎?對,請你說明一下好不好?我們剛剛特別講的就是,我們在登檢的過程中,我們過去登檢的經驗當中,就是我們剛剛影片所播的一個狀況。另外就是我們"},{"start":380.856,"end":399.174,"text":"我講個最明顯的案例就今年的這個中秋節在我們台北港外大概10到12海里左右那麼陸方的一艘漁船也是在這邊滅戒捕魚在我們的領海之內那我們的海巡艇也是接到"},{"start":399.915,"end":428.674,"text":"我們的命令之後過去驅離但他完全不接受驅離就一直對著我們來做碰撞那這個碰撞過程我們整個海巡艇18810088這個編號我還記得因為那天是中秋節那天我正好也是在署裡面整個的過程我們的處理也是那天我們的同仁在這個接近的過程當中是非常的危險"},{"start":429.494,"end":442.363,"text":"那像這樣子的案例路芳也都是非常的能夠遵照我們過往處理的經驗他也是透由律師然後來跟我們來談賠償因為他違法在先"},{"start":446.287,"end":459.888,"text":"他也同意對於我們的修費、對於我們的這些東西都能夠有賠償我要特別舉這個案例就是說我們兩岸過去在這樣子的一個案例當中是很多很多的案例"},{"start":460.529,"end":460.549,"text":"吳琪銘議員"},{"start":480.25,"end":494.567,"text":"海洋執法支隊也好我們都一直保持有這樣子的一個默契那特別是在金門海域的執法我特別跟各位報告那去年一年的協同執法的頻率就高達49次"},{"start":496.169,"end":496.189,"text":"吳琪銘"},{"start":521.544,"end":521.584,"text":"主席"},{"start":540.659,"end":568.837,"text":"在航道上這些非法的這些活動或者布網或者是放這些蟹籠這些東西都是不被允許的不僅僅是我們海巡要做這些工作他地方的執法支隊也在做這些事情我們的金門縣政府也委託他也有專門的船隻出去收這些漁網或什麼那他在執行的時候也都會請海巡來配合"},{"start":569.659,"end":571.757,"text":"所以在這樣子一個執法的氛圍之下"},{"start":573.018,"end":601.928,"text":"我們是希望能夠保持一個好的一個漁場的環境讓雙方的漁民都能夠合法的在這邊進行他的捕撈作業我想這是我們一直以來跟對方一直保有的一個互動的一個方式那這是我要特別先說明的那這一次的三無船舶在進入到我方的禁縣制水域所謂禁縣制水域就是它已經進入到我們的領水"},{"start":604.132,"end":626.266,"text":"進入到這邊之後我們的海巡隊隊員很明顯的就可以看出來因為他沒有船名因為我們海巡的同仁在這方面的執法已經有幾十年的經驗他第一時間就可以判定他是一個無船名就是三無的船舶所以他馬上就廣播驅離警告我們一開始的動作還是希望他能夠儘速離開"},{"start":627.927,"end":627.947,"text":"吳琪銘議員"},{"start":643.302,"end":643.322,"text":"吳琪銘議員"},{"start":665.31,"end":692.968,"text":"明顯的有兩方擦創各流油漆的因為如果我們擦創到它它的油漆會到我們的船體上我們的油漆會到它的船體上而且我們這都已經送到臺北刑事警察局已經幫我們都驗都已經查驗完畢了那這個地方明顯的有兩個油漆互擦的一個這個擦創的一個地方"},{"start":694.231,"end":695.093,"text":"據我所知當然檢調為準"},{"start":698.1,"end":725.635,"text":"有兩處就是他們的左船尾跟我們的右船首那這些都是在調查的過程當中這些整個的事件的過程跟證物跟所有的我們開驗的結果這些資料我們都請相關的公證單位來做第三方的公證那這個公證可能要由檢調他去請我們不能請因為我們是當事人"},{"start":726.255,"end":726.275,"text":"吳琪銘"},{"start":744.275,"end":744.315,"text":"好的"},{"start":767.787,"end":782.478,"text":"謝謝我們的海巡署我們的署長我們各位媒體聽到我們海巡署的署長所描述整個過程中應該我們現在都要相信我們的檢方檢調的調查整個調查出來我們再來做評論應該這樣是比較合理那謝謝我們的召委謝謝我們的同仁感謝各位謝謝吳琪銘召委的質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}