{"error":false,"id":["149311"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149311,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149311","日期":"2024-03-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第3次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第3次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-05T09:19:48+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-05T09:50:26+08:00","影片長度":"00:30:38","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d6f3e02e0bf46d5ef08650d1bf8f3ed0886681d5001d2e43f8ba9b0039caa7a6662dbed556a2c0dd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃仁","委員發言時間":"09:19:48 - 09:50:26","會議時間":"2024-03-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第3次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n 二、3月1日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n 三、3月5日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":64,"blocks":[["黃委員仁：（9時19分）有請行政院長。"],["主席：請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：黃委員早，恭喜您當選立委。"],["黃委員仁：好，感謝，第一次跟我們行政院陳院長的對話，非常榮幸。"],["陳院長建仁：也是我的榮幸。"],["黃委員仁：今天特別要陳述的是現在很多歧視的問題，2016年5月20日是蔡英文總統就職的當日，於2016年的8月1日針對原住民的宣言，也就是原住民日，針對原住民族向國人公開道歉，這是一個事實，這也是國人最重視的，尤其是我們全國族人針對這個議題，他認為我們原住民已經有曙光，而且被尊重；在2016年8月1日公開地向國人、我們族人道歉，可是後續問題重重，所以我要特別來談相關歧視的議題。","我先談勞動部2月29日針對印度移工議題的失言、失當，勞動部部長，請你上來，這就是你內心裡面對整個不分族群的族人或者是國外都有歧視的印象，何況對國人原住民，所以你今天對印度移工的膚色有意見、對他們的習慣有意見，你有沒有跟國人解釋你這種心態的發出到底是什麼原因？本來你的這種發出就是歧視的觀點，請你說明。"],["許部長銘春：跟委員報告，首先要先澄清，我那天所謂膚色相近的說法，我真的沒有要歧視任何族群的意思，沒有……"],["黃委員仁：不應該在大眾媒體前講出膚色不同，就是你潛在意識裡面就已經有歧視的……"],["許部長銘春：跟委員報告，我要鄭重說明，我真的沒有任何歧視的意思，通篇的訪問，如果你從頭看到尾，其實我是肯定印度移工的素質跟工作能力的表現，我們也期待國人能夠瞭解，讓雙方的勞務合作能夠順利……"],["黃委員仁：好，你已經說明了你的態度。"],["許部長銘春：但我也跟委員說明，因為這樣的發言不夠精準，我昨天也有請……"],["黃委員仁：我現在跟你講，國內目前來講是非常缺工……"],["許部長銘春：你聽我說明，委員，我或許發言不夠精準，有造成外界的誤解，這個部分我會來檢討，我昨天也對造成這樣的紛擾、誤解，我也表達歉意，但是我要跟委員說明……"],["黃委員仁：要去檢討。"],["許部長銘春：因為我們的勞工政策不管對本勞或外勞，我們都是平等對待……"],["黃委員仁：現在本席請你緩和你的心情。"],["許部長銘春：絕對沒有歧視的意思，請委員能夠理解。"],["黃委員仁：今天本席要以這個角度來敬告所有在座的官員，在國內是多元的文化，我們引進外勞進來，我們都以我們勞工的權益，包含針對移工或是外勞進到國內，本來就應該要有國法、國政的態度，還有我們的尊嚴，這就是要敬告在位的官員，尤其是針對原住民的議題。部長，你請回。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["黃委員仁：現在我特別要講的是，請播放。","（播放影片）"],["黃委員仁：我們教育部長，為了遏止原住民的孩子不斷的遭受漢人的惡意歧視，從高中到大學的校園社會陸續爆出多起歧視原住民的言論案件，本席特別強烈要求在執政黨民進黨政府的執政下，應立即訂出一個反歧視法。"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我剛才看了那個影片，我是相當的難過，我覺得確實在學校裡面怎麼樣做好教育是相當重要的，所有的族群都應該要平等，而且互相尊重、互相欣賞彼此之間的差異，這個部分我請教育部長做一個簡單的回應……"],["黃委員仁：等一下，我先請教一下我們院長。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["黃委員仁：你在任內裡面或者你過去裡面學術的教養，你有沒有最引以自豪、有針對我們原住民國人做的哪一些項目？"],["陳院長建仁：實際上，在我的學術研究當中，我很關心原住民的健康狀況，包括B型肝炎、C型肝炎、幽門螺旋桿菌的感染，我都有很深入的瞭解，而且也提供給衛福部，讓衛福部在偏鄉的地方，特別是原住民部落，提供這一方面的照顧，特別像C型肝炎的部分，我們也有很多的照顧。","我自己帶學生到原村去的時候，我們做公共衛生服務等等，我們也跟著原住民的朋友都很好，實際上，我覺得原住民朋友及學生們大家都很聰明，而且很能夠團結在一起又很可愛，我覺得我們應該給他們更多的機會……"],["黃委員仁：好，謝謝院長，每一位國人都應該要有這樣的態度，不是針對原住民而已，但是針對歧視的問題最嚴重……"],["陳院長建仁：不應該有。"],["黃委員仁：所以你們行政院版、不管你們制定出反歧視法還有促進平等法，希望這個部分能夠儘快來提案，因為我這邊已經在今年度特別提出這個草案，過去可能有伍麗華委員還有陳瑩委員提出，但是並沒有二讀、三讀通過。所以今天歧視的問題到現在不斷地都存在著，我們很多的孩子，我們來舉幾個案例，民國111年3月24日，臺中大里某國中廖姓阿美族學生因遭罵「死原住民」霸凌的衝突而跳樓自殺；另外在112年4月29日，臺中一中舉辦校慶，我在臺中市議會率先第一個舉牌，跟我們的盧媽媽市長特別要求一中校長下臺，因為他們在園遊會的時候，要引用化學學名裡面的「烯環鈉」來辦理園遊會，結果裡面賣了什麼？馬告飲料、馬告蛋糕什麼之類的，這是什麼？在這個年代不應該再發生這種事。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["黃委員仁：如果從50年代到60年代發生比如族人跟漢人之間都會有一些言語上的霸凌，「烯環鈉」不是原住民的母語，這是你們漢人把「烯環鈉」引用在我們原住民的身上，這是不對的！對整個族人來講，真的不公平，如果按照歷史來講，原住民就是臺灣的主人，為什麼會遭受這樣的待遇？因為他是弱勢嗎？不是，因為他的環境不好嗎？不是，國人在制定我們原住民的政策的時候，並沒有完全的落實，所以有一沒二，以這樣的一個政策來講的話，對我們原住民是非常、非常的不公平。我們要的不是補助，我們要的是尊嚴，但是國人制定出的政策是要完整的，不是有一沒二，然後按照六都裡面的財政，允許有多少的補助，國人，尤其行政院制定出的是一個一體適用的公平政策，這樣的話才不會因為各縣市的財政困難，而沒有辦法提出針對原住民的政策跟福利，應該要從中央開始。所以我建議反族群歧視法趕快制定出來，你們行政院版已經有了，是不是要把行政院版的草案拿出提案？希望在兩個月內提出討論。本席已經提出這個草案，院長，你的想法呢？"],["陳院長建仁：我覺得反歧視、反霸凌是我百分之百贊成的，在臺灣這樣一個多元文化的國家，我們應該要彼此互相的尊重，所以我們對於反歧視法是列為政府優先辦理的人權項目，行政院的人權及轉型正義處正在負責研擬，我會請他們加速辦理。"],["黃委員仁：而且要儘快，兩個月內提出。教育部長還有原民會主委，我特別要講的是，原住民的民族法都已經通過，之前有委員提出學校法，到現在進入一讀之後就沒有了，學校法是針對全國原住民的施行細則裡面非常重要的，為什麼？因為我們要制定未來在都會區裡面人口數的多寡能夠建置原住民的完全中學，現在我們有很多閒置的學校，我們希望能夠建蓋原住民的完全中學。我們在等、在等，就是學校法到現在都沒有制定出你們的行政院版，而且進入到一讀之後就不了了之，本席也提出原住民族學校法的草案，你們也儘快在兩個月內提出你們的行政院版跟報告，你們有什麼想法？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：跟委員報告，其實我們跟教育部這幾年已經先推動了原住民族實驗學校，我想委員應該都非常瞭解這個部分。另外，也跟委員報告關於建構原住民族知識體系的部分，我們也跟教育部、各大學正在建置中，我想這兩個整個實驗跟知識體系建構之後，進一步再就怎麼樣落實原住民族的教育部分，我們會繼續跟教育部來做一個研商。"],["黃委員仁：國家的政策，這麼重要的地方建設，不管是道路的建蓋、不管是重要的法案都能夠在短時間裡面，尤其這個只不過是區區一個原住民族學校法，有那麼困難嗎、有那麼困難嗎？在蔣經國的建設裡面，十大建設每個都能夠在短時間裡面一一建蓋，我們重大的建設都在建蓋了，區區一個學校法你們還要再繞一圈？是吧？兩個月內提出一個報告出來，好不好？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：剛剛特別跟委員報告的地方是，原住民族實驗學校已經推動了至少7年，我們希望透過這樣的經驗，怎麼樣讓原鄉跟都會地區的原住民教育可以推動得更好。"],["黃委員仁：實驗學校只是你們的搪口詞，我們完全中學是要在百年教育裡面讓原住民受到尊重，而且學校法規定裡面有細則，本來就有相關的補助方案在裡面，這個補助方案就是制定出讓原住民進入到從幼稚園、國小、國中、高中、大學，他必須要受到什麼樣的一個待遇，才能夠在這個地方受到完整的教育，這樣才是真正讓我們原住民在進入到完全中學之後，除了國民教育，也受到16族裡面的文化教育，比如他的狩獵技、比如原住民的海域技等等的課後教育，都是在原住民文化的傳承裡面有訂出這樣的一個遊戲規則，可是現在沒有這樣的一個遊戲規則，才造成什麼？很多學校的原住民學生在各校裡面被言語霸凌，在尊嚴上受損害，遭受這樣的事，請問一下，他的尊嚴在成長過程中怎麼會完整？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，剛才原住民族學校法跟建構的整個知識體系，如主委所說，對於有關實驗教育的這部分，我也跟委員報告，因為實驗教育確實目前全國屬於在原住民地區的有38所學校，這個部分絕對不是委員剛才提到說，是一個比較……因為這個都是很深入地跟相關在部落的學校做了很深刻的討論，而這當中有很多是在課程跟教學的部分，特別在原住民族教育的這部分著力很深，因為我當時也在臺中服務，博屋瑪小學是第一所的學校，我想委員也知道，所以目前也希望以這個為基礎來持續地發展。"],["黃委員仁：好，部長，我在這邊誠懇地拜託你，請放手交給原民會，因為原民會完全知道我們16族的文化，包含歷史。夷將．拔路兒在還沒有當局長的時候，他們走上街頭幹什麼？還我土地，對不對？還我土地的定義在哪裡？就是你尋求了希望能夠在這裡面回歸歷史的定位，讓國人知道我們是臺灣的主人，不願意被土地踐踏，所以後面才會有原住民族基本法開始產生，如果不是一個民主運動走上街頭，請問一下會有原住民族基本法嗎？沒有吧！所以這個就是我們回歸到原民會，你放手給原民會來做完全中學的原因，而不是一而再、再而三到現在用實驗學校的方案。請問一下我們原住民要透過實驗的考驗嗎？還是要到醫院裡面去做實驗、開刀的一個方案？不對吧！你們漢人應該要跟原住民學習我們的文化才對，我們已經在多元文化裡面去學習你們漢人的好處、成長了，我們都在學習，但是你有沒有回歸到我們針對原住民的尊嚴跟重視？"],["潘部長文忠：是，我跟委員報告，教育部不只全力協助、支持原民會，因為教育部在這個部分，我們兩個部會是定期有跨部會的討論，都是跟原住民族這部分有關。"],["黃委員仁：我當然知道、我當然知道啊！"],["潘部長文忠：這部分因為教育部跟教育體系對於縣市政府，就如剛才委員所說的，你會去質問臺中盧市長在一中等等的這些問題，教育部其實在教育的這個行政體系上能夠協助地方，全力支持原住民族教育的推動。委員，所以我想這部分我們兩個部會可以全力合作。"],["黃委員仁：好，那我請問，有沒有必要建蓋原住民的完全中學？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，如果在一個區域裡面，它已經正式的形成，因為我過去在臺北縣服務，曾經有1位原住民籍的議員──宋議員，這個我想委員說不定也瞭解，他當時也積極地爭取，其實縣府的態度是支持的，但是在形成過程當中發現意見相當分歧，所以如果委員這邊有一個區域，認為大家共識很高，我想在整個政府的政策支持、法規上，它不是大問題。"],["黃委員仁：好，我現在分享一個概念、觀念好了。過去很多人反對建蓋社會住宅，因為關於土地的公告價值、公告現值會影響到它周邊的產業、周邊經濟的發展，所以很多人反對，認為不要在我鄰近的土地建蓋社會住宅影響增值，結果到現在為什麼沒有影響這一些地方土地產業的增值，反而美化了這個社區的一些住宅？這就是我們要講的，原住民的社會住宅應該要獨立建蓋，原因就是讓16族的人在裡面能夠按照人數多寡來抽籤，然後讓他們居住在這個地方。因為我們原住民有一個叫部落的概念，就是聚集的生活型態，你應該要用聚集的生活型態這個思維來建蓋。部長，我們內政部長在這裡。建蓋原住民的專屬社會住宅，為什麼？很多過去建蓋的這些社會住宅會影響他們的土地的增值，所以很多人反對，到最後很多人喜歡了，而且到現在都還缺，希望能夠趕快滿足各縣市社會住宅的需要，因為現在的土地增值包含房地產的增值造成人民買不起，包含年輕人都買不起，所以有沒有必要建蓋原住民的社會住宅？"],["林部長右昌：好，謝謝委員的垂詢。兩個部分，第一個，社會住宅並不是過去的國民住宅，這第一點要跟你報告；第二個，我們政府推動專屬的原住民社宅，目前已經有三處，第一個是在臺中的沙鹿，另外是新北市的樹林，桃園的話是在大溪，這個大概有541戶，所以我們是可以興建專屬的原住民社宅，這部分沒有問題。"],["黃委員仁：好，謝謝。"],["林部長右昌：相關法律的上面都可以……"],["黃委員仁：部長，今天很高興你能夠……雖然我第一次在這個地方來發言，但是我聽到你這句話，我替國人謝謝你，我們的族人謝謝你。沙鹿平等段就是我極力在我們盧市長的任內裡面，我在議員的時候我就特別提出，有兩處，第一個就是沙鹿的平等段，第二個就是霧峰的錦州段，建蓋原住民的專屬社會住宅，原因在哪裡？希望我們把一些部落概念的生活型態能夠移到都會區的城市，然後聚集在這個地方互相的來尊重文化。因為如果今天在漢人的社會住宅裡面，原住民配給到5%還是6%，但是第一個要件就是殘障優先、清寒家屬優先，其他的一般老百姓、原住民就沒有辦法，還要排隊。","但是如果排得進去的話，好，他唱個山歌，原住民旁邊的漢人就會怎麼樣？就會反對，因為他不瞭解我們的文化；如果在原住民的專屬社會住宅裡面建蓋16族的原住民在那個地方，請問誰會有批判？誰會去歧視？沒有，因為我們原住民喜歡唱歌，天性樂觀、善良，但是你要給他這樣的一個環境，既然現在我們原住民從部落裡面移到都會區將近55%的人口了，將近55%的人口都在都會區，那你要給他這樣的一個原住民專屬社會住宅。剛剛我聽到部長講希望儘快、趕快落實，尤其沙鹿那一段非常好，因為它對面就是靜宜大學，你有什麼意見？"],["林部長右昌：只要這個地方或者是包括原民會提出來的這個專案計畫，我想我們都會依它本來相關的一個機制來給予協助。"],["黃委員仁：好，那主委、部長還有教育部長請回座，我請教一下交通部。","院長還有部長，我們臺東「花東快速道路」本來已經提出，在前任或是現任的立法委員都有提出，關心臺東、花蓮的道路，希望能夠有安全的道路可以回到家。可是屢屢到現在，你們顏色不同還是政黨不同，然後你們的意見一籮筐的表達，讓我們臺東人不知道對政府有信心與否。花東快，本來就應該趕快、快速……當然今天有在臺東要做一個討論會，明天還有一個討論會，希望這個討論會回來跟你報告的是，趕快、趕快通行，因為我們臺東等不了了！臺東、花蓮的觀光確實匱乏，造成地方的經濟不足，生活上非常不好。如果這個道路的通行，讓我們很多的觀光客來到了我們臺東、花蓮，臺東、花蓮是一個好山好水的地方，可是問題是我們這個交通道路的要塞建設非常非常的不好。是不是在你們任內，趕快把花東快通行？讓我們原住民或者是臺東、花蓮，對你們執政黨有信心。來，請回答。"],["陳院長建仁：我跟委員說，這個花東快速公路也好，或者花東鐵路電氣化也好，實際上我們都在進行當中，但是任何的工程一定會有可行性評估，還有細部規劃等等，詳細的情形，我請我們部長簡單的說明一下。"],["王部長國材：是。我跟委員報告，您關心臺東，我就臺東來談。花東鐵路電氣化第一段，現在施工就是臺東段，它在116年整個花東鐵路的……應該是「雙軌」，因為電氣化現在已經有了，現在是雙軌化……"],["黃委員仁：現在講的是花東快。"],["王部長國材：花東快速道路8月會提出可行性，現在正在臺東做公聽會，我們辦三場公聽會現在進行中，公聽會後會把意見蒐集完，就納到我們8月份的可行性報告裡面。"],["黃委員仁：那你們公聽會之後呢？"],["王部長國材：收斂以後，8月份有一個報告叫花東快速公路的可行性報告，就會提出來開始做審查。"],["黃委員仁：所以你說可行性報告來講，包含它的結論等等，還要再10年才完工，對不對？"],["王部長國材：當然就是一定要尊重可行性研究出來的結果，我現在也不知道結果怎麼樣，還有包括花蓮已經說明過，現在在臺東辦說明，如果大家有共識，然後我們研究出來也是可行，那我們就按照程序來走，但是最終可不可行，還是要等這個報告出來。"],["黃委員仁：好，儘快，儘快能夠讓可行性評估報告出來。但是我今天特別要強調的是，花東快速道路本來就應該趕快動工，因為會造福我們臺東花蓮的鄉親，有家可以回。另外，我們鐵路雙軌化的進度如何？"],["王部長國材：鐵路雙軌化現在在施工中，第一個標就是臺東車站那個標，委員也看到現在在施工中，全部會在116年完工。當然，現在有一段是在花蓮，牽涉到7個平交道要不要立體化，這會照修改，但是在臺東段不會變，臺東段就是116年會完工，按照我們的行程。"],["黃委員仁：幾年？"],["王部長國材：民國116年。"],["陳院長建仁：116。"],["黃委員仁：一百多少？"],["王部長國材：116。"],["陳院長建仁：3年後。"],["王部長國材：3年後，對。"],["黃委員仁：因為雙軌化對整個鐵路的樞紐，對我們臺東、花蓮是真的有很大的幫助，反觀看一下我們臺東，臺東目前來講沒有觀光客，沒有任何……你說我們要推展農業，我們還要限制於兩岸之間的政策，所以我們臺東的農人非常的辛苦，但是在經營這些餐飲業的部分，或是旅館的部分也匱乏，原因就是因為我們的交通，沒有辦法做到一日商圈。所以今天拜託院長，對於花東、花蓮，蕭美琴副總統當時在花蓮特別提出花東快或者是臺鐵的快速鐵路，希望趕快完成，以上。"],["陳院長建仁：我們會加緊努力。"],["主席：謝謝黃仁委員的質詢，謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來，請登記第34位林委員俊憲質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","林宜瑾","黃仁","林俊憲","邱若華","陳素月","鄭天財Sra 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8月1日之後公開的向國人我們族人道歉可是後續問題重重所以我把這個啟示的議題裡面特別要談出來"},{"start":94.581,"end":113.894,"text":"當然我先以勞動部就針對2月29日所提出的勞動部部長起立上來提出的印度移工談出了一個議題失言失當"},{"start":115.834,"end":139.959,"text":"這就是你內心裡面內心裡面對整個不分族群的族人或者是國外都會有歧視的印象裡面何況對國人原住民所以你今天在印度移工裡面的膚色有意見習慣有意見"},{"start":143.598,"end":164.968,"text":"你有沒有跟國人解釋你這種心態的發出裡面是到底是什麼原因本來你發出就是歧視的觀點請你說明各位報告我想首先要先澄清我那天的這個所謂膚色相近這個說法我真的沒有任何要歧視"},{"start":166.328,"end":175.812,"text":"我真的沒有任何歧視的意思通篇的一個訪問如果你看我從頭到尾其實我是肯定印度移工他們的素質跟工作能力的表現我們也期待說我們的國人"},{"start":193.779,"end":221.933,"text":"能夠去了解讓雙方勞務合作能夠順利但我也跟委員說明因為這樣的一個發言不夠精準我也有昨天在請你聽我說明我或許發言不夠精準有造成外界的誤解這個部分我也來檢討那我昨天也對這樣的一個造成一個紛擾誤解我也表達歉意但是我要跟委員說明因為我們的任何勞動政策不管對本勞或外勞"},{"start":222.873,"end":227.517,"text":"我們都是平等對待,絕對不會有歧視的意思。今天本席我要以這個角度來敬告我們所有在座的官員"},{"start":238.669,"end":266.757,"text":"在國內是一個多元的文化我們已經外勞進來我們都以我們勞工的權益包含針對移工或者是外勞進到我們國內來本來就應該要有國法國政的態度還有我們的尊嚴的態度所以這個就是要警告我們很多在位的官員尤其是針對"},{"start":271.892,"end":276.816,"text":"部長,離開,針對嚴重的議題,現在我特別要講的是,來請播放太陽的太陽的太陽的"},{"start":314.215,"end":327.602,"text":"我們教育部長為了嚇死原住民的孩子遭受漢人不斷的惡意啟示本席特別強烈要求執政黨在民進黨的政府"},{"start":329.795,"end":342.236,"text":"施政下從高中到大學的校園社會陸續爆出多起啟示原著名的言論案件。因立即訂出一個反啟示法。"},{"start":349.4,"end":350.781,"text":"等一下我先請教一下我們院長是"},{"start":378.988,"end":400.641,"text":"你在任內裡面或是在你過去裡面的學術的教養你有沒有針對你最引以至好針對我們原住民國人做的哪一些項目?我實際上在我的學術研究當中我很關心原住民的健康的狀況所以包括他的B型肝炎、C型肝炎"},{"start":402.335,"end":417.678,"text":"因為我們螺旋桿菌的感染我都有很深入的了解而且也提供了給衛福部讓衛福部在這個偏鄉的地方特別是原住民的部落在提供這一方面的照顧特別像細型肝炎的部分我們也有很多的照顧"},{"start":418.9,"end":419.62,"text":"謝謝院長這個是國人每一個"},{"start":445.41,"end":469.826,"text":"都應該要有這樣的一個態度,不是針對嚴重原因,但是針對歧視的這個問題最嚴重。所以你們行政院板不管你們制定出反歧視法還有促進平等法這個部分希望能夠盡快的來提案。"},{"start":470.694,"end":496.684,"text":"因為我這邊有特別提出這個草案已經提出在今年度那過去裡面可能有吳立華委員還有陳英委員有提出但是並沒有在二讀三讀通過所以今天在歧視的問題不斷的到現在都存在很多我們的孩子我們幾例幾個案例"},{"start":504.127,"end":531.813,"text":"民國111年3月20日臺中大理某國中廖姓阿明屬學生因遭罵使原住民霸凌的衝突而跳樓自殺另外在112年4月29日臺中一中舉辦校慶我在臺中市議會率先第一個舉牌跟我們的盧媽媽市長"},{"start":533.942,"end":560.325,"text":"特別要求要求一中校長下臺因為他們在研究會的時候他要引用化學的協名裡面的西華納西華納用這個來辦理這個研究會結果裡面賣了什麼馬告飲料馬告這個蛋糕什麼之類的這是什麼"},{"start":561.297,"end":586.503,"text":"在這個年代不應該再發生這個年代如果從50年代到60年代有發生比如說在族人跟漢人之間都會有一些原意上的霸凌西華納不是原住民的母語這是你們漢人把西華納引用在我們原住民的身上裡面是不對的"},{"start":587.769,"end":612.156,"text":"對整個國人的族人來講的話,真的不公平。如果按照歷史來講,臺灣就是原住民的族人,為什麼遭受是這樣,因為它是弱勢嗎?不是。因為它的環境不好嗎?不是。國人在制定我們原住民的政策的時候,並沒有完全的弱勢。所以有一沒一沒二。"},{"start":613.598,"end":639.844,"text":"所以這樣的一個政策來講的話對我們原住民是非常非常的不公平我們不是要的補助我們是要的是尊嚴但是要國人制定出的政策要完整的不是有一沒一沒二然後按照六都裡面的財政允許有多少的補助國人尤其是行政院制定出是一個"},{"start":640.584,"end":656.646,"text":"一體適用的公平的一個政策這樣的話才不會因為各縣市的財政困難然後沒有辦法提出他針對原住民的政策跟福利應該要從中央開始所以"},{"start":657.639,"end":684.068,"text":"我建議反啟示竹心法趕快制定出來你們行政院板已經有了是不是要把你們行政院板的草案拿出提案希望在兩個月內來提出討論所以本席已經提出這個草案院長你的想法"},{"start":684.585,"end":685.406,"text":"而且要盡快2個月內提出"},{"start":714.653,"end":744.125,"text":"那教育部長還有言明會主委我特別要講的是原住民的民主法都已經通過之前有委員提出學校法到現在有進步到一讀之後又沒有了學校法是針對全國原住民的實行細則裡面是非常重要為什麼"},{"start":745.302,"end":758.891,"text":"因為我們要制定未來在都會區裡面人口多數的都管能夠建置原住民的完全中學因為現在我們很多閒置的學校"},{"start":759.875,"end":789.06,"text":"然後我們希望能夠建蓋原住民的晚請中學那我們再等再等就是學校法到現在都沒有制定出你們行政院版而且有進入到異讀之後就不了了之本席也提出原住民的學校法也提出這個草案你們也盡快這兩個月內提出你們的行政院版跟報告你們有什麼想法"},{"start":791.681,"end":821.278,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們跟教育部這幾年已經先推動了原住民主實驗學校我想委員應該都非常了解這個部分另外也跟委員報告就是關於建構原住民主知識體系這個部分我們也跟教育部各大型正在建置中我想這兩個整個實驗跟知識體系建構之後進一步再跟教育部把怎麼樣要落實原住民主的教育這個部分我們會繼續跟教育部來做一個研商"},{"start":821.861,"end":842.706,"text":"國家的政策這麼重要的地方的建設不管道路的建蓋不管是重要的法案都能夠在短時間裡面尤其是這個只不過區區一個原住民的學校法就有那麼困難嗎有那麼困難嗎十大建設在蔣經國的建設裡面"},{"start":844.881,"end":864.075,"text":"結果每個一一的都在短時間裡面都一一的能夠建蓋十大建設我們有重大的建設都在建蓋了區區的一個學校法還要你們再繞了一圈是吧兩個月內提出一個報告出來好不好"},{"start":864.793,"end":884.016,"text":"委員這個剛剛特別跟委員報告的地方是原住民族實驗學校已經推動了至少7年我們希望透過這樣的經驗怎麼樣讓原鄉跟都會地區的原住民教育可以推動得更好實驗學校都是你們只是一個堂口詞"},{"start":885.197,"end":898.867,"text":"我們完全中協是要在百年教育裡面讓原住民受到了尊重而且學校法裡面的規定裡面有細則裡面就本來就有相關的補助方案在裡面"},{"start":900.068,"end":917.033,"text":"這個補助方案就是制定出讓原住民進入到從幼稚園、國小、國中、高中、大學他必須要受到什麼樣的一個待遇能夠受到在這個地方能夠完全的受到完整教育"},{"start":917.991,"end":939.767,"text":"這樣才是真正讓我們原住民在進入到完全中協之後,國民教育,除了國民教育,也受到16族裡面的文化教育。比如說它的狩獵技,比如說原住民的海域技,這個等等的課後的教育,都是在原住民文化的傳承裡面,它有訂出這樣的一個遊戲規則。"},{"start":940.988,"end":969.602,"text":"可是為什麼現在沒有這樣的一個遊戲規則才造成什麼很多學校的原住民學生在各校裡面的原因的霸凌在尊嚴上的損害遭受降華請問一下他的尊嚴成長裡面怎麼會完整請問跟委員報告齁當時來原住民主學校法跟建構整個知識體系如主委所說那對於有關"},{"start":971.192,"end":980.478,"text":"實驗教育的這部分我也跟委員報告因為實驗教育其實目前全國屬於在原住民地區有38所的學校這個部分絕對不是委員剛才提到說"},{"start":981.271,"end":982.212,"text":"部長,我在這邊誠懇的拜託你,請放手交給原民會。"},{"start":1012.874,"end":1037.647,"text":"因為園民會就是完全知道我們16族的文化包含歷史。你這樣把如果在曾經還沒有當局長的時候他們走上街頭幹什麼?黃武土地。對不對?黃武土地。那黃武土地的定義在哪裡?就是你尋求了希望。"},{"start":1038.407,"end":1065.859,"text":"能夠回歸歷史定位在這裡面讓國人知道我們是臺灣的主人不要不願意被土地踐踏所以後面才會有原住民的基本法開始產生如果不是一個民主運動所上街頭之外請問一下有民主基本法嗎沒有吧所以這個就是我們回歸到我們人民會你放手給"},{"start":1067.509,"end":1084.789,"text":"原民會來做完全中寫這個部分,而不是以而再再而生到現在用實驗學校,請問一下我們研究必須要用實驗的考驗嗎?還是到醫院裡面去做實驗開刀的一個方案?不對吧?"},{"start":1085.598,"end":1108.346,"text":"本來我們在原住民應該你們漢人要跟我們原住民學習我們的文化才對我們已經在多元文化裡面去學習你們漢人的好處成長我們都在學習可是你們回歸到我們對針對我們原住民的尊嚴跟一個重視我跟我們報告教育部不只全力"},{"start":1109.417,"end":1110.838,"text":"我當然知道我當然知道"},{"start":1125.977,"end":1127.999,"text":"我請問有沒有必要見解原住民的完全中選?"},{"start":1148.363,"end":1156.881,"text":"如果說在一個區域裡面它已經正式的形成,因為我自己過去在臺北縣服務曾經也因為我們原住民主的"},{"start":1157.421,"end":1159.102,"text":"我現在有一個分享一個概念觀念好了"},{"start":1184.953,"end":1203.704,"text":"過去裡面很多人反對建蓋社會住宅因為有關於他的土地的公告價值公告限制會影響到他周邊的產業周邊的經濟的發展然後呢所以很多人反對不要在我的臨近裡面這個土地的真實"},{"start":1204.5,"end":1228.748,"text":"好建蓋了社會住宅結果到現在呢為什麼沒有影響這一些他地方的土地的產業的真實而反而美化了這個社區的一些住宅這就是我們要講的原住民社會住宅應該要建蓋獨立的建蓋"},{"start":1231.249,"end":1258.567,"text":"社會主宰原因就是讓16組的人在裡面能夠按照人數多寡來抽籤然後讓他們居住在這個地方因為我們原住民有在一個部落裡面有一個叫什麼部落的概念就是聚集的一個生活型態聚集的生活型態你應該要用這個思維來建蓋部長我們內政部長在這裡"},{"start":1261.246,"end":1276.194,"text":"建蓋原住民的專屬社會住宅為什麼現在很多過去裡面要建蓋的這些社會住宅影響他們的土地的增值所以很多人反對到最後呢"},{"start":1277.074,"end":1298.755,"text":"很多人喜歡而且到現在都還要缺希望趕快滿足在各縣市能夠需要社會住宅因為現在的土地增值包含房地產的增值造成人民買不起包含年輕人都買不起所以有沒有必要建蓋原住民的社會住宅"},{"start":1300.145,"end":1328.124,"text":"好,謝謝委員的詮詢。兩個部分。第一個,社會住宅並不是過去的國民住宅。這第一點要跟你報告。那第二個,我們目前政府推動專屬的原住民的社宅目前已經有三處。第一個是在台中的沙鹿。另外是新北市的樹林。那在桃園的話是在大溪。那這個大概有541戶。那所以我們是可以興建"},{"start":1328.464,"end":1330.907,"text":"部長今天很高興你能夠雖然我第一次在這個地方來發言但是我聽到你這句話我對跟國人謝謝你我們的主任謝謝你"},{"start":1349.189,"end":1376.705,"text":"殺戮平等段這就是我極力在我們盧市長的任內裡面我在議員的時候我就特別提出有兩處第一個就是殺戮的平等段第二個就是霧峰的緊周段建蓋原住民的社會專屬社會住宅原因在哪裡希望我們把一些部落的概念的生活型態能夠移到都會區的城市"},{"start":1377.345,"end":1405.562,"text":"然後聚集在這個地方互相的來尊重文化因為如果今天原住民配給在漢人的社會住宅裡面配給到5%還是6%但是第一個要件就是殘障優先親韓家屬優先其他的一般老百姓原住民就沒有辦法沒有辦法還要排隊但是如果排得進去的話好"},{"start":1406.34,"end":1435.767,"text":"他唱個商歌,唱個原住民旁邊的漢人就會怎麼樣?就會反對。因為他不了解我們的文化。如果在原住民的專屬社會住宅裡面,建蓋16組的原住民在那個地方,請問誰會有批判?誰會去啟示?沒有。因為我們原住民喜歡唱個歌,樂觀,天性樂觀,善良。"},{"start":1436.516,"end":1465.668,"text":"但是你要給他一個這樣的一個環境既然現在我們原住民從部落裡面移到都會區將近55%的人口了將近55%的人口都在都會區那你要給他這樣的一個原住民的專屬社會住宅啊剛剛我聽到部長講希望盡快的趕快落實尤其沙路那一段非常好因為他對面就是靜怡大學你有什麼意見"},{"start":1467.455,"end":1488.059,"text":"我想只要這個地方或者是包括原民會提出來的這個專案計畫,我想我們都會以本來的相關的一個機制來給予協助。好,那主委還有部長還有交易局長回座。那我請教一下交通部。"},{"start":1505.137,"end":1534.233,"text":"院長還有部長我們臺東花東快速道路本來已經提出在前任或現任的立法委員都提出關心關心臺東花蓮的道路希望能夠有家可以回道路回到安全的家"},{"start":1535.762,"end":1552.63,"text":"可是屢屢的到現在你們顏色不同還是政黨不同然後你們的意見一樓框的表達讓我們台東人不知道對政府有信心與否那花東快"},{"start":1554.039,"end":1573.122,"text":"本來就應該趕快快速的當然今天有在台東要做一個討論會明天還有一個討論會希望這個討論會回來跟你報告的是希望趕快趕快通行因為我們台東等不了了"},{"start":1574.529,"end":1599.743,"text":"臺東花蓮的觀光確實匱乏,造成地方的經濟不足,生活上非常不好。如果這個道路的通行讓我們很多的觀光客來到了我們臺東花蓮,臺東花蓮是一個好山好水的地方,可是問題是我們這個交通的道路的要塞非常非常的不好。"},{"start":1600.404,"end":1609.258,"text":"那如果你們在你們任內是不是趕快把這些花東塊趕快通行讓我們原住民"},{"start":1609.938,"end":1637.639,"text":"或者是在臺東花蓮對你們執政黨而帶來了信心來請回答我跟委員說這個花東快速公路也好或者花東鐵路電氣化也好實際上我們都在進行當中但是任何的工程一定會有可行性評估還有細部規劃等等那這詳細的情形我請我們部長簡單的說明一下是我跟委員報告您關心臺東我就就臺東來談花東鐵路電氣化第一段的現在施工就是臺東段"},{"start":1638.86,"end":1662.502,"text":"他在這個116年整個花東鐵路的應該是雙軌啦雙軌啦電氣的話已經有了現在是雙軌化先講是花東快速道路8月會提出可行性現在正在台東做這個公聽會辦三場公聽會現在進行公聽會完會把意見收集完就納到我們8月份的可行性報告裡面"},{"start":1664.179,"end":1685.621,"text":"那你們公聽會之後呢?收斂以後就是8月份有一個報告叫花東快速公路的可行性報告就提出來開始做審查。所以你說如果可行性報告來講包含他的結論等等還要再10年才完工對不對?"},{"start":1686.63,"end":1686.67,"text":"好,儘快。"},{"start":1709.947,"end":1730.388,"text":"盡快能夠可行性的報告出來。當然我今天特別要強調的是花東快速道路本來就趕快動工因為會造福我們臺東花林鄉親有家可以回另外我們鐵路的雙軌化的進度如何"},{"start":1731.892,"end":1756.839,"text":"鐵路雙軌化現在在施工中第一個標就是臺東車站那個標那個委員看到現在在施工中全部會在那個116年會完工那當然現在有一段是在花蓮牽涉到七個評價到要不要立體化會照修改但是在臺東不斷不會變臺東不斷就是116年會完工按照我們的行程"},{"start":1758.206,"end":1762.99,"text":"因為雙軌化對整個鐵路的樞紐對我們台東花蓮是真的很大的幫助因為你也訪觀一下看一下我們台東台東目前來講沒有觀光客"},{"start":1783.732,"end":1811.176,"text":"沒有任何你說我們要推展我們的農業我們還要限制於兩岸之間的政策所以我們台東的農人非常的辛苦但是在經營這些餐飲業的部分或是旅館的部分也匱乏原因就是因為我們的交通沒有辦法一日上千所以今天拜託院長如果你對花東、花蓮"},{"start":1812.24,"end":1817.841,"text":"蕭美琴副總統在當時在花嶺的時候特別提出花東塊。謝謝黃仁委員的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}