{"error":false,"id":["149320"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149320,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149320","日期":"2024-03-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第3次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第3次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-05T15:11:33+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-05T15:27:22+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:49","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d6f3e02e0bf46d5e79fb72b9e3912aad886681d5001d2e43f8ba9b0039caa7a6e5986559e7e11f9b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李昆澤","委員發言時間":"15:11:33 - 15:27:22","會議時間":"2024-03-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第3次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n 二、3月1日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n 三、3月5日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":182,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（15時11分）謝謝主席，先請陳建仁院長以及管碧玲主委。"],["主席：再請陳院長、管主委備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：李委員午安。恭喜。"],["李委員昆澤：院長好。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["李委員昆澤：針對海巡署查緝金門三無船舶不幸的事件，中國協商代表及家屬在今日稍早已經離開臺灣，在離開臺灣之前，代表團的團長依然指責臺灣撞擊大陸漁船，這是惡性的事件，更說臺灣方面否認事實謊話連篇，設置各種障礙推卸責任，說臺灣沒有協商誠意，後果要民進黨負責。院長跟主委，臺灣是民主法治的社會，主委有責任必須開誠布公，清楚地說明相關協商的過程，來，先請主委說明一下。"],["管主任委員碧玲：好，謝謝委員。跟委員報告，剛剛我們也聽到，對這件事情的定位雙方的落差是非常大的，那我主要說明4點：第1點，因為我們是民主法治的國家，所以從事件發生開始持續地協商，甚至於未來的協商我們都堅持說，這件事情一定要把事實交給客觀、中立、獨立的司法機關調查以後，才可以釐清責任。只要責任一釐清，我們絕對會毋枉毋縱，這是第1點我們的基本立場。","第2點，司法調查需要時間，在司法調查釐清真相之前我們願意優先撫慰家屬，對家屬做關懷，所以我們願意盡最大的誠意，也非常努力地進行溝通，對家屬表達誠摯的關懷，並且提供實質的協助。這個部分也幾乎可以達到某種程度的共識，但是名稱雙方仍然有堅持。","第3點是我們為了表達我們處理這件事情最大的誠意，發生這樣的事情我們非常地遺憾，也知道家屬的痛苦，所以我們首先對於道歉的部分，安排海巡署的許副署長藉由記者會公開對於沒有錄影帶即時迅速地讓家屬跟社會來瞭解事實真相的部分，我們對社會表達公開的道歉；我也指派我們海巡署的署長到金門上香並且撫慰家屬，尤其我們的署長在上香的時候，對於亡者的死亡也表達了歉意、撫慰家屬，也致贈了慰問金，這個部分我們甚至對於未來進一步要如何的道歉，都有提出版本在溝通，但是最後這個版本還沒有達成共識。","第4點是家屬所關心的遺體以及船隻發回的部分，我們也表達了最大的誠意，在司法的制度跟家屬的意願之間幾經溝通，我們幾經努力，我們也已經承諾願意在我們司法體系完成必要的程序之後要儘快地依家屬的意願來予以協助。","這4點我們在整個協商的過程都非常的努力，而且事情一開始以後，我們就以撫慰安定亡靈跟撫慰家屬的方式做了非常多的努力，我們的同仁安置了靈堂、做法會，然後給予祭拜，持續不斷，各界的撫慰、慰問也紛紛而來。","今天發生這樣的情況的發展，我們感到非常地遺憾，但是跟委員報告，我們還是會一秉我們的善意，我們用開放的態度期待未來還是很快地由雙方共同努力來化解歧見，讓這個問題得到非常妥適的安排，並且能夠恢復金廈海域的寧靜。"],["李委員昆澤：陳院長，也請你說明一下行政院對這一個不幸事件的態度。"],["陳院長建仁：我想對於大陸三無的快艇進入我們的禁限制海域，我們海巡署的同仁從事相關的查緝跟驅離動作是依法在辦理，但是對於發生了這個不幸的溺斃事件，我們是感到相當的遺憾，所以我們就請海委會跟海巡署一起來跟這些受難者還有他的家屬來做很好的溝通，那我們也希望能夠像剛才管主委講的，對他們給予最好的撫慰。但是臺灣是一個自由、民主、法治的國家，所有事件發生以後的證據，當然就是依需要按照檢察官偵查、辦理完成以後，才能夠知道真相在哪裡。那有了真相以後，我們剛才也說過，該道歉就道歉，該賠償就賠償，但是在沒有查出真相之前，我們對於這一件事情還需要看檢調的結果來做最後的決定。那我們也希望有專業的人來做相關事件發生的鑑定，因為畢竟這一件事情還是要看事證才能夠做，所以剛才講的整個立場，我們就是依法辦理，然後我們尊重司法來進行。"],["李委員昆澤：好，那接下來我們就要針對勞工的議題來請教陳建仁院長。勞保不是一般的保險，它是國家重要的保險。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["李委員昆澤：依據勞保局的資料，在2023年年底投勞保的勞工朋友有1,039萬人，它是國家重要的保險。當然在過去有所謂的勞保財務危機的狀況，讓勞工內心徬徨，認為說勞保是不是財務有狀況。在陳冲擔任院長、王如玄擔任勞委會主委的時候，我們清楚地提出政府要撥補以及國家最終支付責任。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["李委員昆澤：那現在政府有連續的撥補，從2020年編了200億，2021年編了220億，2022年編了300億，2023年編了750億，這是加上特別預算。今年陳建仁院長也站在保障勞工權益的立場編了1,200億，我請教一下陳院長，會不會持續撥補？金額會不會比今年的1,200億多呢？請陳院長說明一下。"],["陳院長建仁：好，謝謝委員剛才的說明。實際上，為了要讓勞保基金能夠永續，政府當然是會繼續來撥補，因為剛才也講得很清楚，政府要負最後的給付責任，那我們也會來按照基金變動的情形看看該撥補多少，才能讓基金永續。"],["李委員昆澤：明年會不會持續地撥補？"],["陳院長建仁：會。"],["李委員昆澤：會不會比今年的1,200億多？"],["陳院長建仁：那就要看看基金的情況，按照目前支領的人愈來愈多的情況，應該是會增加，所以勞保除了政府的撥補以外，我們確實需要對勞保的永續來提出一個更新的好方案。"],["李委員昆澤：好，這個部分勞保的相關撥補仍然要持續。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["李委員昆澤：而且勞保基金的投資效益也必須要提高。來，許部長簡單說明一下。"],["許部長銘春：跟委員報告，有關於撥補的部分，或者說安心條款，就是政府負最後支付責任，我想這個部分我們這個安心條款一直都是做這樣的規劃，這個沒有問題。而投資效益的部分，其實這幾年整個基金的投資，尤其勞保基金，像去年的投資收益到14.44%，我們去年的整個收益有1,100億的投資收益，所以去年整個雖然有446億的逆差，但是加上政府的撥補，加上我們的投資收益，去年的順差、整個勞保基金的順差是1,200億，所以我們基金的水位是回到八千七百多億，我們也會審慎來做投資運用，增加它的效益。"],["李委員昆澤：許部長，現在政府持續地撥補，然後也一再地向社會宣示這是國家最終支付責任，但是我一再地要求必須明文入法，即勞保條例第六十九條，這是下一個階段讓勞工能夠安心的一個重要的安心條款，這個部分來說明一下。"],["許部長銘春：跟委員報告，這個部分我們未來的條文還是做這樣的規劃，沒有變動，就是這個撥補還有政府負最後支付責任一定都會入法。"],["李委員昆澤：好。接下來我們要討論的是有關於職災的問題，部長，我們每年大概有5萬件的相關職災的問題，職災對於勞工的生活、家庭的重要支柱的衝擊是非常的大，每年大概有5萬件，這2年因為受到疫情的影響而成長到6萬至8萬件，因為除了職災之外，職業病像受到COVID-19的影響，也都列入相關的職業病裡面。目前我們一再地要求，我們現在的專責醫院有17家，本來是有15家，現在增加到17家。"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["李委員昆澤：我們的網絡醫院本來有89家，現在因為有2家身為專責醫院，有1家因為它的業務關係，所以它就取消了，現在有86家。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["李委員昆澤：我們一再地要求在短期之內必須增加專責醫院跟網絡醫院，這個階段等一下再請部長來說明一下。而中程的目標，我們希望每一個行政區至少要有一個網絡醫院或者是專責醫院，接下來就是希望能夠成立勞工醫院。部長你也清楚，網絡醫院主要就是處理醫療跟認定，就是有關職災、職業病的醫療跟認定，專責醫院則是負責醫療認定還有通報的相關責任，我們對於這種短、中、長期勞工的醫療保障，現在進展如何？來，說明一下。"],["許部長銘春：跟委員報告，我們為了讓我們的勞工在整個醫療，就是說發生職災後在診治方面或復健方面能夠有近便性，所以在網絡醫院這邊，我們都是希望透過補助，讓更多具有職醫的醫院能夠進到我們的網絡醫院來為我們的職災勞工服務，所以這個部分我們會持續來擴增，尤其像偏鄉的地方更需要網絡醫院來支持，這個部分我們會持續來推。","另外，關於專責醫院的部分，我們也是朝開放的態度，如果是各區有這個意願要來做我們的專責醫院，我們也都樂觀其成，所以不管是專責醫院或網絡醫院，這個目標都是希望能夠從擴增這樣的一個方向，讓我們的勞工、職災勞工獲得一個好的照顧。"],["李委員昆澤：好，必須增加專責醫院跟網絡醫院，就是經由專責醫院或者是網絡醫院，對於勞工職災、職業病的相關診療是免診療費。另外，他們的相關資料就直接可以來申請相關的給付，所以這個對勞工的權益……部長，我是要提醒你，職災有5萬件，再加上職業病有6至8萬件，這是社會大家對於勞工的權益都非常重視，認為必須要有效降低相關的職災事件，而且對於勞工的醫療必須更為精進。像我一再提的勞工醫院，這個也希望部長要做一個長期目標的規劃，尤其高雄是勞工的都市。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["李委員昆澤：另外，我們對於產檢假的議題，在2014年我提案修正性平法，讓女性勞工上班族有產檢假；到2021年我再度修法，將5天提升為7天；我們相關單位國健署也將產檢補助提升到14次，就是說讓她有至少半天的時間可以去做產檢。公務員現在的產前假有8天，可以作為相關的不管是產檢也好，或相關的一些準備狀況。這個部分我先請教一下衛福部，我們相關的產前健檢一般都說有14次產檢補助，其實，孕婦來說，除了14次是最基本的補助項目之外，大概還要有4至6項的項目是必須要自費的，我請教一下部長，我們14次的產檢補助會提升到20次嗎？來，說明一下，政府有這樣的規劃嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前的14次大概還算是夠啦！因為這也不需要一個禮拜就檢查一次，這是不需要的，所以要看這個胎兒的變化的話，其實是可以算出來。"],["李委員昆澤：許部長，我們針對勞工，院長也清楚我們現在是少子化，我們對勞工必須要有更進一步的保障，相關的產檢假在目前是7天，我們希望能夠提升為10天，請部長簡單說明一下。"],["許部長銘春：是，跟委員……"],["主席：建議一下，時間的關係，特別跟李委員報告，因為時間的關係，可不可以請行政部門用書面來回答您？"],["李委員昆澤：好，可以。"],["主席：好，謝謝李委員昆澤的質詢，謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第42號許委員宇甄質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","林宜瑾","黃仁","林俊憲","邱若華","陳素月","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","高金素梅","林月琴","盧縣一","李昆澤","許宇甄","何欣純","羅智強","張智倫"],"page_start":87,"meetingDate":["2024-03-05"],"gazette_id":"1130501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130501_00004","1130501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1130501_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12.957218750000003,"end":17.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.78346875,"end":17.817218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.37409375,"end":20.770343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.934093750000002,"end":26.625968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.11534375,"end":27.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":27.80721875,"end":28.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":28.667843750000003,"end":29.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":30.034718750000003,"end":30.895343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31.28346875,"end":35.822843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":36.869093750000005,"end":39.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":39.68721875,"end":41.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":41.729093750000004,"end":43.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":44.09159375,"end":45.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":46.234718750000006,"end":47.635343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":48.07409375,"end":50.132843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":50.52096875,"end":54.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":54.62159375,"end":55.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":56.460968750000006,"end":65.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":65.89409375000001,"end":68.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":69.10034375000001,"end":81.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.72284375000001,"end":135.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.38534375,"end":149.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.77971875,"end":154.11659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.42034375,"end":201.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.11346875,"end":234.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.81284375,"end":255.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.80534375000002,"end":274.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":275.36346875000004,"end":280.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.74659375000005,"end":284.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":285.26909375,"end":321.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":321.98909375,"end":337.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":338.18909375000004,"end":346.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":347.30159375,"end":371.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":371.16284375000004,"end":378.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":378.84096875,"end":379.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":379.60034375000004,"end":385.33784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":385.92846875000004,"end":390.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":390.02909375,"end":390.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":390.40034375000005,"end":394.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":395.22659375,"end":399.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":400.49159375000005,"end":402.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":402.33096875,"end":403.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":403.68096875000003,"end":403.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":404.54159375,"end":408.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":408.62534375,"end":409.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":409.75596875,"end":410.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":410.78534375000004,"end":412.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":413.29971875,"end":415.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":416.35409375,"end":416.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":417.60284375000003,"end":422.36159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":422.46284375000005,"end":426.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":427.13721875000005,"end":429.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":429.71909375,"end":437.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.78659375,"end":430.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":438.20721875000004,"end":440.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":440.56971875000005,"end":446.37471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":446.72909375,"end":453.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":454.60971875,"end":460.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":460.49909375000004,"end":484.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":483.60096875000005,"end":485.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":485.65971875,"end":485.67659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":485.67659375000005,"end":485.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":485.71034375000005,"end":485.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":486.63846875,"end":489.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":488.64659375,"end":505.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":505.01534375000006,"end":513.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":510.16221875,"end":510.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":514.3640937499999,"end":515.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.8828437500001,"end":521.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.7553437500001,"end":523.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":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二零二一年我再度的修法將五天提升為七天那我們相關的單位國建署"},{"start":846.937,"end":847.097,"text":"委員．李昆澤"},{"start":873.905,"end":887.273,"text":"我們相關的產前健檢我們一般都說有14次的這樣的一個產檢的補助那其實啊運賦來說除了14次是最基本的補助的項目之外"},{"start":888.052,"end":900.242,"text":"大概還要有4至6項的項目是必須要自費的請教一下部長我們14次的這個產檢的補助會提升到20次嗎?"},{"start":900.242,"end":916.016,"text":"來說明一下政府有這樣的規劃嗎?目前的14次大概還算是夠啦因為這也不需要說一個禮拜就去檢查一次這是不需要的所以要看這個小孩子胎兒的一個變化的話其實是"},{"start":919.737,"end":934.084,"text":"徐部長,我們針對勞工,院長也清楚現在少子化,我們對勞工必須要有更進一步的保障。相關的產檢價在目前7天,我們希望能夠提升為10天。來,部長簡單說明一下。"},{"start":938.551,"end":946.626,"text":"特別跟李委員報告,因為時間的關係,可不可以請行政部門用書面來回答您。好,謝謝李委員、昆澤的質詢,謝謝陳院長的備詢。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}