{"error":false,"id":["149387"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149387,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149387","日期":"2024-03-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-06T11:09:01+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-06T11:19:25+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:24","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172fcfba7aaa7b6896891e2be856f0c9cef9f8ba9b0039caa7a632eaf49779187fd55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"11:09:01 - 11:19:25","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、外交部、勞動力發展署、衛生福利部、內政部、國家安全局就「我國開放印度移工對本國勞工就業市場之衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":902,"blocks":[["盧委員縣一：（11時9分）請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["許部長銘春：盧委員好。"],["盧委員縣一：現在國內移工已經高達75萬，原住民的總人口也才五十幾萬。勞動部一直引進移工，對原住民勞工有沒有配套措施或是優化原住民勞工的權益或者收入？有沒有這樣的配套措施或者是有沒有替他們想過辦法？"],["許部長銘春：其實在原住民協助方面，我們持續在做，包括就業的媒合、職業的訓練，我們一直都有推動計畫在處理。"],["盧委員縣一：我要問的問題是你們一年編列的預算是多少，針對原住民勞工的部分？比如你剛才說的媒合，或者是你們的教育訓練，編列多少預算給我們？"],["許部長銘春：我請署長查一下，這邊有資料。請署長說明。"],["盧委員縣一：好。"],["蔡署長孟良：跟委員報告，原住民部分其實我們現在都有跟原民會一起合作，如果以今年113年的預算來看，我們大概是編列四億七千多萬，這裡面主要就是協助原住民，包含職業訓練，還有就業媒合、協助，這幾年下來，原住民的整個需求，我們大概都是儘量來輔導。"],["盧委員縣一：使用率有百分之百嗎？"],["蔡署長孟良：目前的就業情況其實是比過去好很多，失業率也已經跟一般情況接近了。"],["盧委員縣一：OK，因為我之前有聽過……"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我這邊有一個數字，去年推介的就業率達到74.32%。"],["盧委員縣一：OK，我也同意這一、兩個小時裡很多委員所提到的直聘中心的檢討，希望本席辦公室也會收到你們的檢討報告，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好，可以。"],["盧委員縣一：接著我們進行今天的主題，請部長告訴我，在你的理解上，你所知道的印度是什麼樣的一個國家？"],["許部長銘春：它是一個文明古國，有多元的、豐富的文化。"],["盧委員縣一：我的理解是它是全世界人口最多的國家。"],["許部長銘春：是，人口紅利，它現在是人口紅利最多的國家，包括青年人口紅利。"],["盧委員縣一：對，這次要來的是白領，還是藍領？"],["許部長銘春：是藍領。"],["盧委員縣一：藍領為主？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，白領的部分早就有了，現在在臺灣的白領有二千八百多人。"],["盧委員縣一：因為我知道美國引進的印度勞工是白領，所以我希望你們在這邊能夠做一個所謂的限制，他們在資訊方面是很超前的，所以在美國錄用的移工超過50%都是來自印度，一旦我們簽署MOU，以後萬一他們對我們有這方面的要求，將會影響到我們本國的資訊業，這方面你們要好好把關，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好，其實在白領部分，我們並沒有員額限制，就是資格條件而已，那他就是工作證，我們都歡迎這些專業技術人員來臺灣工作。"],["盧委員縣一：你能預期有多少人是來自哪一區，說哪一種語言嗎？"],["許部長銘春：目前這個都還要透過工作層級會議來談，MOU簽完以後，接下來的重點就是工作層級會議，這就是要決定哪些行業、哪些人數，包括語言條件、技能條件等等。"],["盧委員縣一：我們常常在很多地方看到越南語、泰語或者馬來西亞的標示，未來你們要如何標示印度語，你知道嗎？"],["許部長銘春：有關多國語言移工的服務，這個我們都會同步做。"],["盧委員縣一：我要跟部長說明，印度語沒有國語，他的官方語言就是英文，所以標示上就沒有問題。"],["許部長銘春：就是會以英文為主，像印尼也好，菲律賓也好，他們其實各地語言也不太一樣，方言很多，但我們基本上可能會以英文為主。"],["盧委員縣一：那你知道去年整個印度的傳染病前七名是哪些疾病嗎？"],["許部長銘春：傳染病？這個我不曉得。"],["盧委員縣一：這是去年最新的資料，扣除第一個跟最後一個，也就是說屬於褪流行的或是季節性的，扣掉COVID-19，後面的Malaria、Typhoid、Tuberculosis，其實這些在我們國家是比較少見的，而第二名的瘧疾是有死亡風險的，這個部分應該要嚴格把關。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，如果有這些都進不來，因為他們要進來的話，第一個要健檢合格，進來以後，我們還要……"],["盧委員縣一：我有看到衛福部的報告裡面有針對移工健檢的部分，你們的標準作業其實對每個國家的移工都是一樣，沒有針對他這個國家的特殊性做調整，我希望能夠提醒你們，針對瘧疾或傷寒這些疾病，萬一跑進來的話，你們要怎麼辦？"],["許部長銘春：是，報告委員，未來他們那邊要有衛福部認可醫院的健康證明才會進來。"],["盧委員縣一：我知道，因為每一國幾乎所做的項目都一樣，你們不會針對泰國是這樣，然後印度是那樣，這部分我希望你們做一個修正，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：是，沒問題。"],["盧委員縣一：尤其你看第5項是HIV，他們的人口數這麼多，而這個部分你們routine的檢查並沒有這個項目，我是說衛福部所要檢查的項目沒有包括這一項……"],["許部長銘春：OK。"],["盧委員縣一：我看的是第6頁的樣子。"],["許部長銘春：好，委員，這個部分我們會注意，就是每個國家的傳染病狀況。"],["盧委員縣一：你知道現在我們的看護工來自越南或是目前比較多的印尼，他們比較常發生的問題是什麼嗎？我所謂的是看護部分。"],["許部長銘春：請委員指教。"],["盧委員縣一：他們大部分的知識水準都沒有那麼高，看護時，其實都在看手機，或一直在跟母國的家人視訊講話，真正照顧我們老人家的時間並沒有那麼多，他就是按照三餐餵，或是該換尿布、換藥的時候就做，其他時間都這樣，我的意思是，當然每個人有每個人的自由，我只是說他的工作態度，不過我也要要求，是不是看護的教育程度要稍微好一點，至少在教他怎麼換藥或是教他怎麼餵食的時候，有一個基本的概念，不然一個完全沒有知識水準的看護工來的話，在照顧我們的老人家時，你會放心嗎？是不是？是不是要做一個適當的調整？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["盧委員縣一：另外，你知道大部分的失聯移工都在哪裡嗎？"],["許部長銘春：營造業、農業，還有一些……"],["盧委員縣一：我知道的失聯移工大部分都在山上種一些植栽，我也知道他們的問題，他們要申請變成所謂的合法或什麼的，條件都非常嚴格，所以是不是在找到他們以後，在適法性上面能不能有一些教育或什麼的？其實我都知道他們在哪裡，也看過他們在哪裡，你去阿里山看那些在採茶的人，大部分都不是合法的移工。其實大家都知道他們在哪裡，可是你們卻沒有人處理，可以嗎？他們大部分都在山區做植栽的工作。"],["許部長銘春：這個我們可以請移民署處理，因為失聯移工的查緝是移民署的權責。"],["盧委員縣一：好。再給我2分鐘時間，謝謝。部長，針對巴氏量表，今天能不能有一個比較明確的答案？你們是不是已經在進行規劃？就是免巴氏量表的這個部分。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，現在在巴氏量表以外，還有多元的認定方式，包括使用長照超過6個月，還有失智的、身心特殊障礙的，這些我們都有放寬認定。再來就是重招免評，就是重招以後，巴氏量表可以免評，這個我們也有放寬，我們會持續滾動檢討，也會跟衛福部這邊一起依他們的專業來處理。"],["盧委員縣一：是不是就一個疾病診斷書就可以取代？因為巴氏量表實在浪費很多資源，尤其是住在偏遠地區的族人，他們要包車，還要請家人載他們，然後有時候剛好看的科別醫師請假，或者是說他不願意的話，又要再花一天過來，等於是勞師動眾。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，基本上能夠聘請看護工的，他就是失能，而失能的認定，其實在巴氏量表……"],["盧委員縣一：對，我是說一般醫師的檢定應該也可以啊！"],["許部長銘春：我想巴氏量表是一個各國都認同的標準，其他的部分……"],["盧委員縣一：我相信只要是在臺灣獲得合格醫師執照的，都不會亂開證明，不是嗎？為什麼一定要巴氏量表來擾民呢？"],["許部長銘春：這個權責一部分是在衛福部，我們再跟……"],["盧委員縣一：希望你們再做檢討，在修正的時候能夠把這些考慮進去，最主要就是要便民，對嗎？不是嗎？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["盧委員縣一：好，謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：我們會跟衛福部一起來檢討，謝謝委員。"],["盧委員縣一：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝盧縣一委員的質詢。","等一下林淑芬委員質詢結束後，我們處理臨時提案。","現在請楊曜委員質詢。"],["黃委員秀芳：主席，臨時提案是不是可以先發給我們？"],["主席：臨時提案是不是？好啊，如果有好的。好像部會他們都有了。","好，楊曜委員請。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-3","speakers":["王育敏","蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","盧縣一","楊曜","劉建國","林淑芬","謝衣鳯","李彥秀","楊瓊瓔","吳思瑤","洪申翰","游顥","洪孟楷","蔡易餘","羅智強","陳瑩","王鴻薇","陳冠廷"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-03-06"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長、外交部、勞動力發展署、衛生福利部、內政部、國家安全局就「我國開放印度\n移工對本國勞工就業市場之衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130701_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.180968750000002,"end":13.615343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.28534375,"end":19.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.44034375,"end":27.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.07721875,"end":30.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.148468750000003,"end":32.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.31284375,"end":48.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.31034375,"end":52.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.64721875,"end":53.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.313468750000006,"end":60.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.25346875,"end":63.953468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.37971875,"end":71.24346875},{"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74.32那我也同意這一兩個小時裡面很多委員所提到的執聘中心的檢討那我希望我本席辦公室也會收到你們檢討報告好不好然後接到我們進行今天的主題你部長告訴我一下你知道的印度是什麼樣的一個國家你的理解"},{"start":155.762,"end":182.131,"text":"他是一個文明古國有多元的這些豐富的文化那我的理解是他是全世界人口最多的國家是人口紅利他現在是人口紅利最多的國家包括青年的人口紅利那我們這次要來的是白領還是藍領我們是藍領藍領為主報告委員我們的白領早就有了我們現在台灣的白領有2800多人我知道美國的引進的印度勞工是白領"},{"start":183.604,"end":211.864,"text":"所以我希望你們這邊能夠做一個所謂的限制因為他們的資訊的方面的所謂的也是很超前所以他們在美國錄用的印度移工是超過50%都是來自印度所以一旦我們簽署了MOU以後他們萬一有這方面的需求對我們這方面的要求會影響到我們本國的我們資訊業所以你們這方面要把關好不好"},{"start":213.344,"end":214.245,"text":"你可以預期多少人是來自哪一區是說哪一種語言嗎?"},{"start":231.377,"end":252.867,"text":"目前這個都還要透過工作成績會議來談MOU簽完以後接下來就是重點就是工作成績會議這個就是要來決定哪些行業哪些人數包括語言條件技能條件等等因為我們常常在很多地方會看到越南語、泰語的標示還有或者是馬來西亞那你有"},{"start":253.703,"end":280.126,"text":"未來會要如何標示印度語你知道嗎?我們這個多國語言的移工的服務這個我們都會同步會做印度語沒有國語它的官方語言就是英文所以標示上就會沒有問題就是會以英文為主啦你就像那個印尼也好菲律賓也好他們其實有時候那個各地語言不太一樣我們基本上就是會以方言很多啦但是我們基本上可能會以英文為主下一頁看一下"},{"start":281.192,"end":285.46,"text":"那你知道去年整個印度的傳染病的前7名是哪些疾病嗎?"},{"start":289.246,"end":314.3,"text":"對,就是去年的資料,最新的。那我們扣除第一個跟最後一個,也就是說它是屬於已經退流行的,也就是季節性的話,其實前,你扣掉COVID-19,後來的這個LiveWare或是Type 4或是Type Glossis,其實這些在我們國家是比較少見,而且是第二名這個瘧疾是有死亡風險的,這個部分的把關應該要嚴格把關。"},{"start":315.18,"end":342.931,"text":"報告委員如果有這些都進不來因為他們要來的話第一個他要健檢合格然後進來以後我看到你們的衛福部的報告裡面的那個對針對我們移工的一個健檢的部分其實對你們的標準的作業其實對每個國家的移工的都是一樣的沒有因為針對他這個國家的特殊性做調整我希望能夠提醒說以後這個瘧疾啊或者傷人這些如果萬一跑進來的話你們要怎麼辦是"},{"start":343.956,"end":371.529,"text":"報告委員那個衛福部他未來他那邊要醫院經衛福部認可醫院的健康證明才會進來因為美國的幾乎的幾乎所做的項目都一樣你不會因為針對是泰國是這樣然後印度是這樣我希望你能夠做一個修正是好不好沒問題有請看第1、2、3、4、5第5項是HIV他們的人口數這麼多所以這個部分你的那個routine的檢查裡面沒有這項這個項目"},{"start":373.63,"end":400.025,"text":"我是說你們的那個衛福部所要檢查的項目沒有包括這一項我有看那個第6頁的樣子這個部分委員我們會來注意就是每個國家的傳染病的狀況那你現在你知道現在我們的康復工就是來自越南或者是目前比較多的是印尼他們比較常發生的問題是什麼嗎我所謂的康復"},{"start":402.526,"end":431.261,"text":"那請你委員指教大部分他們都是知識水準沒有那麼高然後其實大部分都在看手機然後一直在跟他母國的家人講話視訊講話其實在真正在照顧我們老人家的那個時間其實沒有那麼多他就按照三餐或者是該換尿布的時候該換藥的時候就做或是其他時間都這樣那我的意思是說當然每一個人每一個人的自由或者是說他的工作的態度不過我要要求是不是看護的那個教育程度要稍微好一點"},{"start":432.418,"end":453.849,"text":"至少在在教他要怎麼換藥或者是要教他怎麼餵食的時候有一個基本的一個他的一個概念不然你完全沒有知識水準的一個看護工來的話你再照顧我們的老人家是你會放心嗎是不是要是不是要做一個適當的調整你知道失戀移工都在哪裡嗎大部分"},{"start":455.562,"end":480.552,"text":"銀藻業、農業我知道的私立移工大部分都在山上在種一些植栽然後那我知道他們的問題當然說他們要申請要變成所謂的合法或什麼那些條件都非常的嚴格所以是不是在找到他們以後能不能是不是在司法性上面能不能一些教育或什麼的"},{"start":481.468,"end":503.807,"text":"其實我都知道他們在哪,我也看過他們在哪裡你去阿里山看一些在採茶的,大部分其實都不是合法的移工啊其實大家都知道他們在哪裡可是你們卻沒有人在處理,可以嗎?大部分都在山區做這種植栽的工作這個我們可以請移民署來處理,因為那個適應移工茶器是移民署的權責好,那再給我兩分鐘的時間,謝謝"},{"start":506.963,"end":519.58,"text":"那針對我們的巴士量表我希望今天能不能有一個比較明確的答案你們有沒有已經在進行規劃還是什麼免巴士量表這個部分"},{"start":520.08,"end":543.832,"text":"報告委員我們現在就是巴士任表以外我們還有多元的認定方式包括你使用長照那個超過6個月還有這些失智的還有一些身心特殊身心障礙的這個我們都有放寬認定再來就是他從早免評從早以後不用再在巴士任表免評這個我們也有放寬這個我們會持續滾動檢討也會跟衛福部這邊一起"},{"start":550.526,"end":574.876,"text":"以他們的專業來處理是不是就一個疾病診斷書就可以來取代?因為巴斯列表實在是太浪費很多的資源尤其是住在偏遠地區的族人他們要包車還要請家人載他們然後有時候剛好看的科別醫師請假或者是說他不願意的話他又要再花一天再過來等於是勞思動眾"},{"start":576.437,"end":591.211,"text":"報告委因為我們基本上看護工能夠聘請看護工他就是私能對我是說私能的認定其實在巴士量表巴士量表他是一個我想是各國所承認的標準只要是在台灣獲得合格醫師的執照他不會亂開"},{"start":595.435,"end":597.136,"text":"盧縣一委員的質詢那等一下林淑芬委員質詢結束後我們處理臨時提案"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}