{"error":false,"id":["149393"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149393,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149393","日期":"2024-03-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-06T10:58:08+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-06T11:09:55+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:47","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f8c98dcebfe6c8d6352d2a45619e6d6e6f8ba9b0039caa7a611aaf748057b52845ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林俊憲","委員發言時間":"10:58:08 - 11:09:55","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長王國材列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日、6日及7日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":561,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（10時58分）謝謝主席，本席要請交通部王部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["林委員俊憲：還有公總。"],["主席：好，公總陳局長。"],["王部長國材：林委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：部長好。部長，你知不知道發生在我們臺南市安南區有4家貨運公司，就是車行，車行把他們靠行的車子拿去貸款，就是拿去冒貸，共兩百多部車子，每一台車子都至少貸款了三百多萬，所以車行大概一共貸走超過1億，然後捐款逃走了。現在這些車主非常可憐，也非常緊張，你也知道貨車車主都必須靠行，你曉得吧？"],["王部長國材：我知道。"],["林委員俊憲：因為要成立貨運公司的門檻非常高，等於是我們政策逼這些車主不得不靠行，因為設立一家貨運公司的資本額大概6,000萬，而且還要有幾十部的車子才有資格成立一個車行。"],["王部長國材：瞭解。"],["林委員俊憲：現在這些車主去靠行，車行把車子拿去冒貸，更慘的是，這不是第一次，2018年就發生，所以當時我們幾位委員就有提案，現在車子在你車行裡面你拿去貸款，政府應該要有一定的節制，也就是說你必須要讓車主知道。部長，你看到當時的提案沒有？當時就發生過這個案例，立委也提案請交通部公總這邊要有這種交易預告登記的精神，結果又再次發生這樣的慘劇。部長，你知不知道這種事情？來！誰可以回答？"],["王部長國材：我請局長來說明。"],["陳局長文瑞：跟委員報告，我們有掌握，臺南這4家公司貸款的車輛現在確實是86輛，有兩個部分，第一個部分，先對於靠行車……"],["林委員俊憲：234輛，這次是八十幾輛，貸款是一億多嘛。"],["陳局長文瑞：對，貸款車輛現在掌握是……"],["林委員俊憲：我講的2018年那個案例是234輛，貸走了五億多嘛！"],["陳局長文瑞：是，跟委員報告，2018年那時候大概……"],["林委員俊憲：你先回答，如果制度不改，這種事情會不會再發生？"],["陳局長文瑞：制度要再檢討。"],["林委員俊憲：你要怎麼改？"],["陳局長文瑞：跟委員報告，上次的時候，制度檢討是因為……"],["林委員俊憲：2018年發生過，為什麼這次會再發生？因為2018年以後你那個SOP根本沒有落實、沒有調整。部長，你看一下，2018年發生的案子，然後我們在交通委員會提案，因為車行要去貸款必須做動產的擔保設定，所以就必須向監理機關來辦理，然後公總的調整是監理所再把資料轉給當地的公會，公會再聯絡車輛所有人，這當中只要一個環節出了錯誤就出事了，現在就出事了。"],["陳局長文瑞：是，是，是。"],["林委員俊憲：現在臺南這個案子出事在什麼地方？"],["陳局長文瑞：應該就是說轉知公會以後，公會……"],["林委員俊憲：你要推給公會？"],["陳局長文瑞：不是，當然公會跟我們之間的聯繫，我們沒有掌握到靠行車主的確實資料，所以我這邊自己也檢討了，第一個部分當然就是因為我們要double check，就是公會這邊確認。第二個就是現在靠行的車主跟這一個公司簽訂私契約的時候，我們這邊做個註記。"],["林委員俊憲：我跟你說，你這個不改，會再發生。"],["陳局長文瑞：是，是，是。"],["林委員俊憲：因為動產擔保設定到監理站辦完，監理站的責任多輕鬆啊！轉知公會就沒事情了，照理說我們應該要跟車主說嘛，對不對？"],["陳局長文瑞：對，對，對，跟委員報告……"],["林委員俊憲：那以後可不可以改為直接聯繫車主？你要讓車主知道嘛！"],["陳局長文瑞：要，所以就是……"],["林委員俊憲：那你現在要不要改？"],["陳局長文瑞：要，就是整個註記的部分，也就是靠行的資料我們自己也要掌握，不要說完全就是跟……"],["林委員俊憲：本席今天有臨時提案，我就是要求你要改這個，你要讓車主知道啦！要不然這樣的慘劇一定會再發生。你知道設立一家貨運公司的門檻有多高嗎？他必須要有2,500萬的資本額，要有20輛以上的全新貨車，所以幾乎一般車主都要靠行，政府的規定等於逼迫車主非靠行不可，那麼你就有責任去保護這些車主，而且動產擔保設定為什麼到監理站辦理？就是政府要有一個一定的監理機制嘛！不然何必要跟政府說？直接找銀行就好啦！就是擔心會發生這樣的弊案，2018年一次，現在又發生了，你現在給我查，2018年到現在這5年來一共發生多少次冒貸事件？"],["陳局長文瑞：我再查相關的資料。"],["林委員俊憲：不會中間隔5年，這中間不知道發生多少件，我跟你們要資料，你拿不出來，不敢給我嗎？趕快去把這個程序改掉。"],["陳局長文瑞：好。"],["林委員俊憲：不然以後不知道還有多少車子會受害！"],["陳局長文瑞：是，好。"],["林委員俊憲：請桃機公司。"],["主席：桃機公司。"],["林委員俊憲：桃機公司這次跑道工程造成班機延誤的事件也是一樣，2015年也發生過，2015年也是因為修跑道造成了空中大塞車，董事長知不知道這個事情？"],["楊董事長偉甫：2015年的事情我不太曉得，不過這一次的過程當中，流量管制確實是在我們這個團隊……"],["林委員俊憲：你們單位知道嘛！你要修跑道第一個一定要考量到班機起降會不會延誤，這是必要的考量，而且你還去考察。去年11月桃機公司還特地跑到日本大阪關西國際機場，去考察日本機場在跑道整建的時候如何不影響起降，把這個影響降到最低，是不是這樣？然後發現日本關西機場的作法非常好，他們是不停航的施工，運用臨時性的跑道邊燈，這是你們寫的，每天封閉跑道稍長的時間進行施工，然後再開放使用，一週不是每天進行，非連續日數進行。你們去日本考察回來還還寫了報告，結果你們考察回來，這次就造成了受影響的旅客不要說怨聲載道啦，其實更令人擔心的是飛航安全，因為我們法令規定飛機的油料要多載2個小時，是不是這樣？就是油料要容許飛航時間再多2小時，但是一般航空公司不會再載更多的航空油料，因為油很重又很貴，所以法令規定多2個小時的油料，飛機的油箱就是多放2小時的油料而已，像這樣在空中下不來，之前聽說還有盤旋4個小時的，以前發生過啦，這次最長的盤旋多久？"],["何局長淑萍：報告委員，應該是沒有到10小時啦，roughly我有問過，一般機長來講，如果盤旋到1小時，有時候他會要求轉降，看機長，還有飛機上都會有航行的油料顯示，就是minimum到目的地的時間，其實機長會……"],["林委員俊憲：最危險的就是這樣的狀況啦，是不是這樣？因為飛機多載的備用油料都不會很多，法令規定只有2個小時，因為航空油料又重又貴。那我請問，你們在施工以前，航空公司應該知道你們要施工，他們的班次也沒有減少，有沒有減少？照理講他要減少，我查了一下，發現航空公司都沒有減少，為什麼？現在機票很好賣，賺錢啦！兩邊都有責任。但是法令授權民航局，你可以要求他強制減班，你知不知道？因為機場在施工，根本沒有辦法容納一個小時60個班次的起降，航空公司沒有一家減班，你會不知道嗎？航空公司為了賺錢，這也不對啦！是不是這樣？現在機票都用搶的，機票那麼好賣，就大家都不減班，硬賣！結果飛機下不來，還好這次沒有發生安全性的問題。重點是你們還出國去考察，為了要施工還特地去國外考察人家跑道施工怎麼做，跑去日本大阪關西機場，回來寫個報告，在做什麼？","董事長，你是一個工程專家。"],["楊董事長偉甫：謝謝委員。"],["林委員俊憲：請你接桃機公司就是看重你在工程方面的專才嘛。"],["楊董事長偉甫：所以經過這次的教訓以後，我們已經開始在做全盤的檢討，未來的操作方式我們會重新更新，把現在所談到的相關問題都納入，包括航管、航空公司，還有對旅客的事先訊息發布，我們都需要重新"],["林委員俊憲：對，你修跑道，你現在都是在你們自己官網公布，都只有內部看得到，旅客看不到，我覺得以後像這種重大施工可能會影響到飛航班次時間的，你應該要放在公開網站，讓一般旅客也知道，你現在公布的網站，我們一般人是看不到的。"],["楊董事長偉甫：這個要特別發布新聞。"],["林委員俊憲：甚至應該要公開發布新聞。"],["楊董事長偉甫：是。"],["林委員俊憲：所以你們好好的檢討，這種事情不要再發生了，好不好？"],["楊董事長偉甫：是。"],["林委員俊憲：好，謝謝部長，謝謝董事長。"],["主席：林俊憲委員發言完畢，有關於林俊憲委員針對大貨車司機權益保障的臨時提案，請交通部相關單位趕快跟林委員進行文字的修正。","接下來我們請魯明哲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":348,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-2","speakers":["李昆澤","林國成","廖先翔","黃健豪","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","林俊憲","魯明哲","游顥","萬美玲","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","許智傑","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","鍾佳濱","謝衣鳯","高金素梅","王鴻薇","李柏毅","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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