{"error":false,"id":["149402"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149402,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149402","日期":"2024-03-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-06T11:50:30+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-06T12:00:46+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:16","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f3302c4d55fd316e38e47b20f39b04ac8f8ba9b0039caa7a60e4b2c360d55b1ec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"11:50:30 - 12:00:46","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日、3月6日及7日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1124,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時50分）謝謝主席，我們是不是請國發會龔主委以及國土區域離島發展處的黃處長？"],["主席：好，請兩位。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：蔡委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：我想主委很清楚，台積電的封測廠目前考量應該是在嘉義太保市的科學園區，而且也經過一段時間的努力，包括環境影響評估的部分，大概都布局的差不多了，現在就等台積電對外點頭，是不是這樣？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，沒有錯。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，主委，我想這個要很感謝啦！很感謝包括國發會、經濟部及整個行政院，事實上這一次台積電封測廠擇址在嘉義這個地方，對於整個行政團隊我們很感謝，但是我們也知道，要因應這樣一個先進的封裝廠到來，事實上還需要很多基礎設施的布局，這我想主委一定都很清楚，所以這個布局也包括未來，這個先進封測很厲害，主委是不是能介紹一下先進封測？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：因為它是比較先進、前端的，它不是成熟的，是CoWoS那個部分。"],["蔡委員易餘：CoWoS嘛。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：3D封測嘛。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：等於未來晶圓可以和其他不同晶圓的計算模式……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，不同的晶片，把它封裝在一起。"],["蔡委員易餘：包成同一個，然後用立體式的方式，讓這個晶圓的運算能力更多元。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，沒有錯。"],["蔡委員易餘：而且它不會產生更多的熱去影響到它整個運算，所以台積電很厲害。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：所以它的……"],["蔡委員易餘：這樣的封測廠要設在嘉義，所以我們可以想像，主委，大家都在說的一奈米那畢竟是比較未來的事情，現在重點我們應該把它放在封測這樣的一個概念，如果是封測的話，未來就有很多先進製程會進來太保，會進來嘉義科學園區，因為它必須要做最後的封測、封裝，對不對？所以未來包括橋科、南科，他們這些晶圓就要運到嘉義做封裝，最後再出口。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以這樣說起來運輸就很重要了。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：嘉義未來就會是整個晶圓最終要出口前的最後一站，是不是這樣？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，高階的部分。"],["蔡委員易餘：高階晶圓，因為熊本那邊就不是嘛，可是在嘉義這就很重要。南科的高階晶圓，像橋科、高雄這邊，都會運來這裡，所以交通的問題我想請主委有機會跟交通部再談一下，你們再談一下，我們嘉義的交通還有什麼可以加強的。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：好不好？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：這個facility本來就是要先準備好。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，我們現在就是要準備，因為我們可以想像，這是一個趨勢，未來一奈米落腳在哪裡，我們不知道，可是未來的一奈米先進製程，最後還是得跑來嘉義，對不對？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：它也是要有這個封裝、封測的一個過程，所以拜託主委這邊用國發會、用比較上位的一個角度，跟交通部溝通、談一下。好，既然要談，我就提出了一個比較具體的建議，就是現在我們這些晶圓，剛才佳濱在我前面先質詢了，他說未來的出口，我們這個先進的晶圓要出口就是一個很重要的導向，但是要出口，我們就發現了，從嘉義的水上機場、臺南的機場、花蓮、臺東的機場，事實上有部分是軍民合用的機場，小港機場也一樣，而南部的機場有一個最大的問題就是宵禁，臺灣沒有宵禁的機場大概就只有桃園機場，所以目前我們所有的貨運，像台積電這種要快速運送的，大概都要跑到桃園去，運送成本太高，如果未來像我剛剛所講的，先進製程的部分都要先在嘉義完成它的封測跟封裝的話，主委，我覺得我們嘉義水上機場如果以它的先天條件，在它旁邊還有很大的一塊腹地，我們這個腹地包括它的跑道長度也可以檢討，目前嘉義的跑道長度跟臺南已經是一樣大的，甚至比小港還要長、比花蓮也還要長，跑道長度是夠的，旁邊周圍的腹地也夠，我們要不要來考慮正式把嘉義水上機場提升，未來以貨運為導向，然後貨機（cargo）可以瞬間以最快的、最短的運送成本，以最快速的方式把晶圓的一些製品運送到各國去，我們是不是可以朝這方面來做一個布局？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，委員，跟剛剛鍾委員一樣，就是南部可能要有一個這樣的機制。"],["蔡委員易餘：對。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：設在哪裡我想我們再跟交通部來討論一下。"],["蔡委員易餘：當然、當然，你們去談一下。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：因為還有一些相關的配套條件。"],["蔡委員易餘：只要變成了國際的一個cargo機場，最重要就是要取消宵禁，但取消宵禁我們也知道會面對居民……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：附近居民。"],["蔡委員易餘：附近居民要用心去溝通，因為要讓這些居民接受，所以我現在要跟你們說的是，相對其他地方，嘉義有一個優勢，我們這叫做落後的優勢，我們那裡人比較少，若是小港那裡，人很多，那可能就難處理。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：這是我們落後的優勢，我們那裡的人現在比較少，所以我們認為既然未來要談交通，我們就有這個優勢，你們就評估一下，事實上這個部分如果有辦法有一個國際機場，當然在那附近的人會complain，他們會說這樣我們又要限建了，我們這裡的房地產要漲可能機會就少了，因為就在機場旁邊，可是對於周遭的發展就不一樣了，它就變成一個以貨運……當然現在貨運也是，客運是附帶的嘛，因為飛機都是同一架去飛的，合併在一起，所以這也是未來一個很好、可以看得見的趨勢。像新加坡航空公司運送晶圓，賺大錢啦！這是去年底的一個新聞，新加坡航空公司因為載送晶圓，在全國缺晶圓的時候他們就賺大錢，所以我覺得主委這部分你們來打算一下，好不好？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：好，我們來跟相關部會討論一下。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，第二個，時間剩很短了，我再講到這個布袋三港，跟主委講好幾次了，事實上你對這裡的環境也都很清楚，我們現在所有布袋周邊的港，因為外傘頂洲漂沙的問題，讓我們整個布袋的漁港或者是東石所有的漁港，事實上都沒有符合法定應該要到達的漁港深度，疏浚也疏不完，我們現在每年都差不多花4,000萬，布袋、東石這邊要做疏浚，事實上怎麼疏都緩不濟急，而且這樣漁民要出港去討海，那裡太淺了，如果有時候打到漁船就會翻船，那是一個風險。","所以我具體建議，我們在東石白水湖南側這裡過去有一個潟湖，就是過去祖先在曬鹽的地方，這片非常的大，那我具體建議我們來做填砂造陸，像過去我們布袋海埔新生地、東石海埔新生地也是填砂造陸，我現在框起來的這塊比布袋的海埔新生地還要大，我們這一個區塊來考慮填砂造陸，把這些砂都移來這裡，然後至少暫時性讓這些漁港可以出入平安，這個也是要……龔主委，你也是站在上位階，整個臺灣國土必須可以有效的規劃，像這個可以來做一個評估嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：好，我們再來……"],["蔡委員易餘：因為這是以前的潟湖嘛！就是以前祖先在曬鹽的地方，現在因為曬鹽不划算，沒有人在曬鹽了，所以這塊放在這裡閒置，你看閒置多久了？這裡過去也有部分在養蚵仔，不過越來越淺，養蚵仔也漸漸變少了，所以這塊就沒用了，我們來給它填砂造陸，這樣好不好？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：好，因為這個還牽涉到造陸以後它的用途是什麼……"],["蔡委員易餘：沒關係，那是很以後的事情，你造陸就要讓它土壤夯實，那個要很久的時間，至少我們先找一個地方，也看得到未來性，好不好？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：好。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，拜託主委，謝謝，辛苦了！"],["主席：謝謝。接下來我們請黃國昌委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-2","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","林岱樺","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra 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所以主委我想這個要很感謝很感謝包括我們國發會、經濟部、整個行政院事實上在於這一次台積電封測場在擇址然後在嘉義這個地方我們對於整個行政團隊我們很感謝但是我們也知道"},{"start":87.085,"end":99.2,"text":"因為要因應這樣的一個先進封裝廠要來,事實上還需要很多基礎設施的佈局,所以我相信主委一定都很清楚。所以這個佈局包括說,未來這個先進封測"},{"start":104.867,"end":105.027,"text":"蔡易餘議員"},{"start":120.299,"end":120.579,"text":"所以這台機電是做厲害的"},{"start":138.303,"end":138.804,"text":"蔡易餘蔡易餘蔡易餘蔡易餘蔡易餘"},{"start":157.682,"end":175.221,"text":"他會進來太保會進來嘉義科學園區因為他必須要做最後的封測封裝嘛 對不對所以未來就是說包括橋科包括南科他們家的晶圓就要運到嘉義然後做封裝然後最後再出口對"},{"start":175.942,"end":176.462,"text":"蔡易餘蔡易餘"},{"start":206.502,"end":207.884,"text":"稍後來的稍後來的稍後來的稍後來的稍"},{"start":233.223,"end":251.905,"text":"他也要有這個封裝封測的一個過程所以這是一個拜託主委家用國安會用比較上位的一個角度跟交通部溝通拔這個好 既然要拔我就提出了一個比較具體的建議就是說現在我們這裡的經緣多少多少嘉賓都在我前面先諮詢了"},{"start":253.106,"end":275.496,"text":"他就說未來的出口我們這個先進的一些晶圓要出口就是一個很重要的一個導向但是要出口我們就發現了哇從嘉義的水上機場臺南的機場花蓮臺東的機場事實上這個有部分是軍民合用的機場小港機場也一樣事實上南部的機場有一個最大的問題就是宵禁"},{"start":277.352,"end":292.283,"text":"和桃園機場,台灣沒有宵禁的機場大概就只有桃園機場所以目前咧,我們所有的會員求集中台這間機場的要快速運送的大概都要跑到桃園去,運送成本太高"},{"start":293.463,"end":322.202,"text":"那如果咧,如果未來像我剛才所說的這樣我們的先進製程的,說要先在嘉義完成它的封測跟封裝的話我覺得主委,咱嘉義水上機場如果以它的先天條件,它在旁邊還有很大的一個腹地我們這個腹地咧,包括說以這個跑道的長度可以檢測目前嘉義的跑道長度已經跟台南是一樣大的,比小港還要長比花蓮也還要長,跑道長度是夠的"},{"start":323.632,"end":331.309,"text":"那這一個旁邊的周圍的戶地也夠那我們要不要來考慮正式把嘉義水上機場"},{"start":333.159,"end":353.814,"text":"把他提升未來以貨運為導向然後以貨機然後可以飛到瞬間可以最快的最短的成本運送成本最快速的把這樣的晶圓的一些製品運送到各國去咱是不是可以朝這方面來做一個佈局"},{"start":355.263,"end":379.499,"text":"對,委員剛剛跟總委員一樣就是可能南部要有一個這樣的一個機制啦對設在哪裡我想我們再跟交通部來當然當然,所以你們要去拼啦你們去拼因為第一這個只要變成了國際的一個卡古機場啦最重要就是要取消宵禁啊取消宵禁呢我們也知道說會面對居民附近居民這要用心去溝通因為這些居民要讓他們接受"},{"start":384.122,"end":389.19,"text":"所以我現在要跟你們說,相對其他地方,這裡有一個優勢,我們這叫做落後的優勢,我們這裡人比較少"},{"start":393.696,"end":394.196,"text":"蔡易餘蔡易餘蔡易餘"},{"start":414.466,"end":433.391,"text":"他們說我們如果要現建,我們這房地產要走可能也有機會就借給基金賓可是對於周遭的一個發展那就不一樣了他就變成一個以貨運當然有貨運當然現在貨運也是客運是減的因為都廢棄工一家這樣賣去的減作費所以這也是一個很好的一個未來可以看得見的一個趨勢"},{"start":443.614,"end":460.804,"text":"你像新加坡的那個新加坡航空公司跟運送晶圓賺大錢啦這是去年底的一個新聞嘛跟新加坡航空公司的因為載送晶圓他在那個全國在缺晶圓的時候一直賺大錢"},{"start":462.211,"end":483.355,"text":"所以我覺得主委這部分你來拍一張這樣好不好?好,我們來跟相關部會討論一下好,那在第二個啦,時間是很短的,我就在講啦那講到了這個事實上布袋勒,布袋三港這個含住於宮古亞邊,事實上你對這裡的環境也都很清楚啦"},{"start":483.775,"end":499.569,"text":"那我們現在所有布袋周邊的港因為外山頂洲的飄沙的一個問題讓我們整個布袋的漁港或者是東石所有的漁港事實上都沒有符合法定應該要到達的漁港的一個深度"},{"start":500.843,"end":501.044,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":516.343,"end":539.57,"text":"那是一個風險,所以我具體建議啦,我們在於東石白水湖南側這裡有一個過去的一個溪湖,就是過去的柏嶼,祖先的柏嶼的地方,這片非常大,那我具體建議我們來做田沙造路,像過去我們布地那邊是新地,"},{"start":541.271,"end":561.118,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":561.77,"end":573.418,"text":"這也是要主委說主委你也是站在上位階整個國土的一個台灣整個國土必須要可以有效的規劃像這個可以來做一個評估嗎?有這個比較大的市府嘛"},{"start":578.542,"end":578.562,"text":"對阿"},{"start":597.763,"end":607.251,"text":"好,因為這個還牽涉到趙祿以後他的用途是什麼?沒關係,那是很重要的事情,你趙祿你就要讓他土壤夯死,要很久的時間。至於這個我們找一個地方也看得到未來性,好不好?好,主委拜託,謝謝,辛苦。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}