{"error":false,"id":["149417"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149417,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149417","日期":"2024-03-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-06T12:27:08+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-06T12:41:07+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f5e6b16039bae0c9352d2a45619e6d6e6f8ba9b0039caa7a655a5d72cd9383ff75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許智傑","委員發言時間":"12:27:08 - 12:41:07","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長王國材列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日、6日及7日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":960,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（12時27分）謝謝召委，我先請民航局長。"],["主席：請民航局何局長。"],["許委員智傑：局長，對於桃園機場塞機，我想局長應該很清楚喔！我一個助理從札幌回來就耽擱了3個小時。桃園機場跑道維修是事先就知道的事，這些事情為什麼不能事先防範呢？所以我要替高雄再做一次呼籲，提早規劃到我們高雄的航班應該就可以少掉這些問題，為什麼不能處理呢？我先舉個例子。你看，高雄飛日本、飛韓國的載客率都比桃園機場還高，所以我們會覺得為什麼那邊塞得要死，這邊卻沒有航班來？這是事先可以規劃的事，為什麼不規劃呢？你看，以日韓的熱門航線來說，桃機航班比我們高雄多八倍，這是非常嚴重的問題，我要替我們高雄喊話一下，因為我們看了都覺得非常不平。","事實上，對於交通部所做的事，我們也要表示肯定，就是桃園到布拉格、高雄到新加坡、沖繩，也包括高雄到茨城的航班以及高雄到靜岡現在是獨飛航線，到首爾、金浦、越南峴港、香港等也有很多廉價航空。包括新加坡、沖繩等等，這些也謝謝啦！也就是說高雄並不是沒有潛力，我們也希望交通部多重視高雄、民航局多重視高雄，能夠讓我們高雄的班機儘快到位。","我們先講，高雄爭取的航線就是三、二、一。北海道的札幌從去年就講了，但是到現在還沒有完成；至於九州、熊本，事實上，熊本市跟我們高雄是姊妹市，兩個城市非常地好，熊本市長也都到高雄兩、三次了，結果都沒有直飛航班，還包括韓國的濟州島。桃機的日韓航線比我們高雄多8倍，我們的載客率又比桃園還要高，所以這個地方是不可以儘快調整，讓我們高雄有更多航班？當然，馬祖南竿航線有困難度，但我們也還是希望再要求啦！美國洛杉磯事實上可以看到很多、很多班次，現在一個月好像有三百多班，而且還在增加中，但為什麼一直都沒有機會做大部分的調整？","觀光局現在改成觀光署，也新設了好幾個辦事處，像是雅加達、釜山、甚至孟買。觀光局現在升格成觀光署，增加很多辦事處，但相對於增加這些辦事處，航班都沒有調整，所以我也再次呼籲，高雄飛印尼事實上是可以直飛的，不要讓高雄人每次都一定要舟車勞動到桃園。另外，你看印度有十幾億人口，我們竟然沒有直飛！當然，這部分要考慮是不是要規劃桃園先行。我們也不會要求高雄先行，若以整個臺灣做考量，桃園先行是可以考慮的，但總是要設計這樣的直飛路線。","關於航線規劃，我們知道現在高雄機場也在改建當中，那我是不是可以具體要求民航局與交通部儘快調整，不然就針對我們高雄所有載客做一項書面報告、評估報告，這樣OK嗎？"],["何局長淑萍：跟委員報告，確實，在高雄這邊的航班恢復上，根據我們的統計，如果扣除大陸，還有日本因為地勤等因素恢復比較慢，韓國、東南亞……"],["許委員智傑：有恢復的我都知道啦！現在我就是看到塞機覺得心痛啦！要怎麼調整？現在已經調整的，我們感謝啦！但對於我們要求的，像是熊本、札幌、濟州島，我們殷殷期盼，但是還看不到我們希望的成果。"],["何局長淑萍：我想，日本部分就如剛才講的恢復比較慢，主要是受限於他們的地勤代理量能，尤其熊本這邊也一樣。至於韓國、東南亞其實已經都恢復到95%，當然桃園的……"],["許委員智傑：沒有關係，我時間有限，而你的解釋我大概都聽過、之前你都解釋過了，能夠調配的就請民航局儘快跟華航或日本相關地方討論，儘快調配，好不好？"],["何局長淑萍：這部分我們再來處理。"],["許委員智傑：你再講也一樣，我知道。但是對於我們殷殷期盼的，總是要讓我們趕快看到。對於高雄航線，目前已經復航的，我們感謝，但是還沒有復航的，我們表示遺憾跟催促嘛！好不好？"],["何局長淑萍：是，我們再努力。"],["許委員智傑：這部分希望儘快。","下一張圖片是哪裡你知道嗎？在桃園機場。部長知道嗎？我們高雄機場好像沒有這種膠囊旅館。現在高雄新航廈正在重蓋，就是慢慢施工嘛！那這個有沒有規劃進去？"],["何局長淑萍：桃園機場因為是24小時……"],["許委員智傑：高雄有沒有？"],["何局長淑萍：目前的規劃我們再檢討，因為桃園機場是24小時機場……"],["許委員智傑：是啦！但24小時就比較不用住啊！而我們的機場中間有宵禁時間，住進來正好啊！"],["何局長淑萍：高雄有比較多是區域線進來的，這點我們會檢討。"],["許委員智傑：就是因為你們航班規劃得不夠，才會變成區域性嘛！所以我的要求就是……部長有聽到啦！就是由民航局做一個整體計畫，包含我們的運量跟航班調配，也包括這種膠囊旅館，既然現在都已經在新蓋了，為什麼不把它設計進去呢？難道永遠要當作因為宵禁，很多班次都不來，所以就算了嗎？"],["何局長淑萍：這部分我們再納進來。"],["許委員智傑：所以高雄過境膠囊旅館我覺得是必要的，要一體思考進來。然後是就將來整個南北的調配，我希望民航局跟交通部可以做一下規劃，好不好？","我現在請部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長國材：委員好。"],["許委員智傑：部長都有聽到吧！"],["王部長國材：對。"],["許委員智傑：剛剛讓你休息一下，主要是讓你現在起來說「好」就好。"],["王部長國材：委員就是說高雄有宵禁，要是晚上太晚就睡膠囊旅館，隔天再走？"],["許委員智傑：有必要嘛！對不對？"],["王部長國材：看起來是滿合理的。"],["許委員智傑：對啊！很合理啊！。所以希望民航局在航廈部分加以考慮，尤其現在正在施工當中、正在規劃嘛！那要趕快把這個東西放進來啊！不然以後還是沒有啊！"],["王部長國材：好，我請他們研究。"],["許委員智傑：對啊！這個想法應該滿好的啦！希望交通部跟民航局可以把它規劃進來。包括整個運量跟航班，希望你們一個月左右給我一份評估報告，好不好？"],["王部長國材：好。"],["許委員智傑：你們用心評估啦！不然每次我不是講單點，你們都是頭痛醫頭、腳痛醫腳，每次都講一個點。你們就做更詳細、完整的評估，對於能讓高雄有更大運量的部分就提前做整體、大量的評估，好不好？"],["王部長國材：是、好。"],["許委員智傑：好，謝謝。","其他人可以先休息，麻煩部長。部長，高雄的交通真的也要看得很長遠啦！像是在臺北，其實高鐵有3個核心，就是臺北車站、板橋車站跟南港車站，也就是東、西與原縣區都有。但高雄現在只有一個左營，若是看將來、往後50年，運量恐怕都會集中在左營，那是很可怕的！至於整個南高雄我覺得會稍微衰退，就是往50年後來看，恐怕啦！交通當然要做長遠的、整體的思考，所以我在這邊也詢問部長，高鐵有沒有可能通到高雄車站或鳳山車站？"],["王部長國材：目前在可行性上是沒有進入高雄市區，目前沒有。"],["許委員智傑：所以是不是可以思考？因為原高雄市區人口眾多，我認為原高雄市區至少要再有一或二個高鐵站進來，就像臺北。我說臺北有三核心，但高雄現在只有一核心嘛！假使只有一核心，在感覺上，往後看50年，我是覺得這樣的思考是不夠的。"],["王部長國材：現在是這樣：如果要進入市區，第一是在進入的施工期，施工對市區的影響，當然我們也可以從很多新的工法、比如說潛盾工法等等避免。第二是我覺得面臨的最大問題，就是拆遷。對於拆遷這個課題，現在沒有進市區、不需拆遷，進去之後就要拆遷，市民有沒有辦法接受？我覺得需要市政府與當地市民溝通的過程。"],["許委員智傑：我知道，這是很大的概念，要做整體、統合的思考。","你看臺鐵新左營站跟臺鐵楠梓站，凹進去的捷運紅線這部分、也就是楠梓產業園區部分，將來台積電與它所有產業鏈進駐之後，統統在這裡，卻只靠一條捷運紅線，你想一想，到時候這邊會擠死啊！所以這裡是不是有機會處理？既然臺鐵的楠梓百慕達這邊要立體化，那是不是可以在解決楠梓百慕達問題的同時，在中間再設一站楠梓產業園區臺鐵站？如果鳳山人到台積電上班或屏東人到台積電上班，就可以直接坐臺鐵到楠梓產業園區下車，不用再轉車。就差一個站，有沒有可能在這裡增加這個部分？"],["王部長國材：對於高雄市政府，我們現在補助了一項可行性研究經費給它，正在做往北延伸楠梓鐵路高架化的可行性研究，這由他們在可行性研究裡評估是不是要增加通勤車站。針對這部分，在高雄市政府提出以後，我們會跟他們做一些討論。"],["許委員智傑：好，我做最後結論，因為時間到了，主席站起來了。我們看一下整個高雄市未來所有交通的規劃，除了剛才我們講的飛機航班與評估，希望部長跟民航局督促，我們一起努力規劃得更多、更好之外，我們的鐵路，包括高鐵、包括臺鐵、包括捷運，我想這些東西不要一段一段。我再舉個例子，假設高鐵是左營一個核心，再加上高雄跟鳳山就變成三個核心。剛剛部長提到在設計規劃上，也許人民會有不同的意見，那有沒有可能配合我們現在捷運黃線要蓋，因為也是要挖地下，如果把高鐵接捷運黃線，假設再接一個衛武營，若高雄車站三核心那邊有困難，或鳳山車站有困難，就從左營直接加到衛武營，這樣子就是雙核心，這種搭配現在黃線的思考，是不是也有機會？請部長做更通盤的考量。"],["王部長國材：好，我們來研究。"],["許委員智傑：可能一個方案、兩個方案、三個方案，請交通部也做一下評估，讓我們高雄50年後的發展，可以讓它走得更順暢，走得更好。"],["王部長國材：好，進入高雄市區的方案我們來研究一下。"],["許委員智傑：拜託部長做一個整體的思考跟規劃，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：好的，謝謝。"],["主席：許委員發言完畢。現在請洪委員發言。","洪委員發言完畢之後，給大家吃飯的時間，我們一點半繼續開會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":348,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-2","speakers":["李昆澤","林國成","廖先翔","黃健豪","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","林俊憲","魯明哲","游顥","萬美玲","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","許智傑","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","鍾佳濱","謝衣鳯","高金素梅","王鴻薇","李柏毅","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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