{"error":false,"id":["149439"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149439,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149439","日期":"2024-03-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-06T09:19:38+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-06T09:32:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:58","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172fdd4e707a8659d64652d2a45619e6d6e6f8ba9b0039caa7a66013a5e6b2b6089b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李昆澤","委員發言時間":"09:19:38 - 09:32:36","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長王國材列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日、6日及7日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":202,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（9時20分）謝謝陳素月委員。請王國材部長、機場公司楊董事長。"],["主席：王部長、楊董事長。"],["李委員昆澤：還有高鐵公司江耀宗董事長。"],["主席：請江董事長。"],["李委員昆澤：公路總局陳文瑞局長。"],["主席：請陳文瑞局長。"],["王部長國材：召委早。"],["李委員昆澤：王部長，民眾出國是基於商務考察、開會工作或者旅遊探親等等，都必須在好幾個月前就做好相關規劃。要出國，不是要去高雄看黃色小鴨，不是要去看5月天的演唱會，都要好幾個月前就做好相關的交通規劃，因為還有轉機等等相關的重要因素必須考量。但是我們看到桃園機場南跑道的歲修，造成大量旅客的權益受損。我們看到旅客在機場徬徨、無助、憤怒、錯愕，整個交通部機場公司螺絲掉滿地。我們看到桃園機場南跑道歲修的相關流程，在去年11月開始規劃，12月及今年1月、2月都有相關的聯席邀集討論，對象包括航空公司代表聯席會、相關業者、飛航管制單位、地勤業者等等。機場公司直到今年2月21日才發布飛航公告，3月3日開始歲修，中間僅僅間隔了11天，請你們簡單說明一下。"],["王部長國材：我先簡單說明，第一個，跑道的歲修是航安的一部分，桃園機場24小時營運，封閉一個跑道的確影響很大。的確如委員所說的，雖然從去年就開始討論這個事情，但是我覺得在2月21日發布飛航公告，是不是包括航空公司還有民眾瞭解這個事情，這個是的確有……"],["李委員昆澤：這裡面當然有很大的行政瑕疵，對於旅客的權益踐踏到這種程度，全國民眾都非常地不滿，對政府、對交通部的威信造成很大衝擊。那我先請教，你們認為原因是什麼？"],["王部長國材：第一個當然就是，我們後來檢討，發布飛航公告應該在3個月前就發布。"],["李委員昆澤：然後你們只公布了11天？"],["王部長國材：另外在航管的部分，就是各國飛飛機到我們的飛航情報區，如果沒有管制，它就是全部飛進來在空中盤旋，是比較危險的。所以我覺得在飛航管制，未來我們的FIR，必須比如說各國，香港要飛過來的，叫他在什麼時候再飛或是拉長進來，如果是類似的歲修狀況，我想很多包括標準作業程序，還有在這些討論的過程當中……"],["李委員昆澤：部長，有多少旅客受到影響？"],["王部長國材：總共有大概……"],["范總經理孝倫：報告委員，大概有500班左右的航班受到影響。"],["李委員昆澤：那相關的旅客有沒有賠償的問題，你們有做這樣的規劃嗎？是否賠償？"],["范總經理孝倫：跟委員報告，因為剛剛所提到的，我們在規劃的過程是從去年11月就開始，這個討論其實是包含航空公司、航管等有關部門大家都一起來討論，所以我們是在今年1月下旬確定這個執行日期是在3月份的第一個……"],["李委員昆澤：你們1月、2月都有討論，然後到2月21日才發布這個飛航的公告嘛！"],["范總經理孝倫：跟委員報告，我們的日期是會決定在先，因為這個部分各單位……"],["李委員昆澤：你們這樣的解釋民眾不會接受啦！部長，我認為部長跟桃機公司的董事長、總經理應該在這裡公開地向所有旅客，跟國人公開地道歉。部長說明一下。"],["王部長國材：我真的對於3月3日當天造成民眾的不便，我在這裡表示非常抱歉！我想這部分3月3日發生以後，我就請我們的次長進駐，然後也做了標準作業程序的討論。我想這一次，事實上過去它都有歲修，那的確是這次歲修的範圍比較廣，所以時間比較長，尤其現在全世界疫情後航班已恢復，我是覺得這個部分已經有檢討過，我會請他們完全按照我們所檢討的這個流程來處理。"],["李委員昆澤：部長，我不客氣地講，你督導不周。我在這邊還要更嚴厲地告訴機場公司的董事長跟總經理，如果再有這種混亂的狀況，你們二個都必須要下台，必須要負起相關的責任。旅客的權益必須要用心維護，你們讓旅客在機場等待，有的等待超過兩、三個小時以上，然後要轉機的班次整個都亂掉了，對旅客的權益踐踏得讓人無法接受，而且對國家國門的形象真的是衝擊非常大。","接下來我要問高鐵公司。現在假日的時候真的一票難求，尤其是連假，我們以2019跟2023的中秋連假，以其平均日的運量來看2023比2019中秋的日平均運量，每一天就大概多出2萬人左右，這個運量提升非常大。當然在2023的中秋及雙十連假，高鐵公司也全力要去做好運輸的工作，我們有30組列車全部出動。"],["江董事長耀宗：34組。"],["李委員昆澤：對，34組的列車全部出動，然後當日的班次也排到最高192班次。但是部長跟董事長，還是有旅客等車要等3個小時以上，就是我們相關的這些班次還必須更有效地去做調整。當然34組都已經動用，全部都動用，我們的新車12組，要到2026的下半年才會到，對不對？董事長。"],["江董事長耀宗：是的。"],["李委員昆澤：然後車2026到，要2027經過測試等等，可能就要1年，要到2027才能夠正式營運。"],["江董事長耀宗：沒有錯。"],["李委員昆澤：現在高鐵真的是一票難求，尤其是假日的時候。高鐵還沒有通車的時候我就在交通委員會，有多次你們都說高鐵公司要調整票價等等，我就清楚地說明，高鐵公司的問題是運量，不是票價。現在運量逐漸提升，那我先請教，我們之前跟董事長跟總經理有討論，高鐵的班次，在考量車輛的安全維修以及員工的工作權利等等，是否還有再增加班次的空間？尤其是7月，7月相關的假期馬上就要到了，請董事長說明一下。"],["江董事長耀宗：跟委員報告，我們目前每週的班次是1,060班，當然在3月份的後2個禮拜我們都有所謂因應短期的增班，到7月1日公司還會再檢討我們常態的增班。那以公司的這些運能來講，我們是有機會還可以增班。"],["李委員昆澤：還有機會喔？大概能增加多少班？"],["江董事長耀宗：大約40班次。"],["李委員昆澤：好，董事長，高鐵公司在運量的提升這方面有做出成績，我還是認為增加班次是一個必然的趨勢，但是一定要考量相關的車輛，維護鐵道的保養以及相關員工的工時權益等等，都要做好全部的規劃。"],["江董事長耀宗：這個一定會這樣，謝謝。"],["李委員昆澤：接下來我要針對無照駕駛的部分請教部長。交通部在駕駛人的教育跟監理方面的確有做相關的規劃，但是我們忽略了有很多人駕照被吊銷、吊扣之後沒有去考照、不願去考照，仍然無照駕駛，這些有多少人，你知道嗎？有14萬人。部長，這5年來無照駕駛累犯的裁罰人數跟件數，以2023年（去年）來說，人數達到14萬5,318人，件數更是高達21萬6,622件。這些相關無照的人因為被吊銷、吊扣駕照之後仍然在路上無照駕駛，這是屬於高危險的駕駛行為，交通部公路總局有做任何相關的追蹤、考核、預防、教育的機制嗎？來，說明一下。"],["陳局長文瑞：是，跟委員報告，無照駕駛我們大概可以分成3類：第一類就是比較年長的。之前可能沒辦法考上駕照，對於年長的需求部分，其實我們現在正在各村鄰里做幸福巴士、小黃，讓他們不用去騎車，而且彈性預約、用公車票價可以達到計程車的服務，這是一類。","第二類就是年幼、18歲以下的。18歲以下的本來現在依法令規定就是不能考駕照，如果說無照的部分的話，這邊包括列管以及講習，其實講習的時候還要求家長要共同來，賦予家長也要督促年幼、18歲以下的。","第三類就是針對18歲以上因為違規，重大的違規會被吊銷、吊扣駕照。這個部分因為重大違規的處罰本來應該有一個期間，比如3年、6年或是更長的期間不能考照。在這一類這個部分的話，未來其實監理機關跟當地的警察機關在整個名冊上面列管，因為本來這類的人就是處罰不能上路的，他在處罰吊銷、吊扣期間是不能上路的，這個部分的話，我想我們會跟警察機關共同對於這類的人可能要加強做相關的列管跟稽查取締。"],["李委員昆澤：對，相關的追蹤以及相關的機制必須要建立起來，更保障用路人的安全。以上。"],["陳局長文瑞：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李昆澤召委質詢。"],["主席（李委員昆澤）：現在請林國成委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":348,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-2","speakers":["李昆澤","林國成","廖先翔","黃健豪","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","林俊憲","魯明哲","游顥","萬美玲","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","許智傑","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","鍾佳濱","謝衣鳯","高金素梅","王鴻薇","李柏毅","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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這個事的確有...這裡面當然有很大的行政的瑕疵嘛對旅客的這個權利啊 踐踏到這種程度啊 全國民眾都非常的不滿對政府啊 對交通部的威信啊 造成很大的衝擊 那我先請教你們認為原因是什麼"},{"start":187.554,"end":202.462,"text":"第一個當然就是我們後來檢討就是發布非常公告應該在3個月前就發布然後你們只公布了11天那另外就是說在航管的部分就是說各國飛機到我們的飛航情報區"},{"start":203.763,"end":204.463,"text":"部長有多少旅客受到影響?"},{"start":237.689,"end":247.963,"text":"總共有大概500班左右的是包委員大概有500班左右的這個航班有受到影響那相關的旅客有沒有賠償的問題你們有做這樣的規劃嗎是否賠償"},{"start":251.79,"end":281.15,"text":"跟委員報告因為剛剛所提到的我們在規劃的過程是從去年11月就開始那這個討論呢其實是包含航空公司、航管等有關部門都大家一起來討論所以我們是在今年的1月下旬確定這個執行的日期是在3月份的第一個這個你們1月2月都有討論嘛然後到2月21才發布這個飛航的公告嘛"},{"start":282.357,"end":308.992,"text":"是跟委員報告我們的日期是會決定在線因為這樣的解釋民眾不會接受我認為部長跟桃居公司的董事長總經理應該在這裡公開的向所有的旅客跟國人公開的道歉來部長說明一下我真的對於3月3日當天造成民眾的不便我在這裡表示非常"},{"start":311.192,"end":335.119,"text":"抱歉,我想說這部分3月3日發生以後我要就請我們的次長進駐然後也做了標準作為程序的討論我想這一次事實上過去他都有稅休那的確是這一次稅休的範圍比較廣所以時間比較長但是我覺得這個尤其現在已經恢復到全世界疫情後的恢復航班的情形我是覺得這個部分"},{"start":336.179,"end":364.91,"text":"已經有檢討過那我想我會請他們完全按照我們這個所檢討這個流程來處理部長我不客氣的講你督導不周我在這邊要更嚴厲的告訴機場公司的董事長跟總經理如果再有這種混亂的狀況你們兩個都必須要下台必須要負起相關的責任旅客的權利必須要用心去維護你們讓旅客在機場等待"},{"start":366.155,"end":367.436,"text":"接下來我要問高鐵公司"},{"start":396.058,"end":416.939,"text":"高鐵公司我們現在真的是在假日的時候一票難求尤其是以年假我們以2019跟2023的中秋的年假以它的平均日的運量來看2023比2019的中秋的日平均運量"},{"start":418.359,"end":435.729,"text":"每一天就大概多出2萬人左右 這個運量提升非常的大當然我們在2023的中秋及雙十年假 高鐵公司也全力要去做好運輸的工作我們有30組列車全部的出動 34組的列車全部出動"},{"start":439.651,"end":449.218,"text":"然後單日的班次也排到最高192班次但是部長跟董事長我們還是有旅客等車要等3個小時以上"},{"start":450.942,"end":476.874,"text":"這就是說我們相關的這些班次還必須要更有效的去做調整當然34組都已經動用全部都動用我們的新車12組要到2026的下半年才會到對不對董事長是的然後我們到2026車到要2027經過測試等等可能就要一年要到2027才能夠正式的營運"},{"start":478.496,"end":503.221,"text":"沒有錯那我們現在高鐵真的是一票難取尤其是假日的時候啦高鐵還沒有通車的時候我就在交通委員會那有多次你們都說高鐵公司要調整票價等等我就清楚的說明高鐵公司的問題是運量不是票價那現在運量逐漸的這樣的一個提升"},{"start":504.246,"end":512.451,"text":"那我先請教我們在之前有跟董事長跟總經理有討論我們高鐵的班次"},{"start":513.752,"end":537.165,"text":"在考量車輛的安全維修以及員工的工作權利等等是否還有再增加班次的這個空間尤其是7月7月馬上相關的假期就要到了來請董事長說明一下我們目前每週的班次是1060班那當然在3月份的"},{"start":539.587,"end":541.008,"text":"大概能增加多少班?"},{"start":561.67,"end":589.642,"text":"大約大約40班次好 董事長高鐵公司在運量的提升這方面有做出成績但是我還是認為增加班次是一個必然的趨勢但是一定要考量相關的車輛維護鐵道的保養以及相關員工的工時權利等等都要做好全部的一個規劃這個一定會這樣 謝謝好 那接下來"},{"start":590.7,"end":612.611,"text":"我要針對無照駕駛的部分來請教我們的部長部長我們交通部在駕駛人的這個教育跟監理方面的確是有做相關的一個規劃但是我們忽略了駕照有很多被吊銷、吊扣之後"},{"start":614.042,"end":633.997,"text":"沒有去考照 不願去考照 仍然無照駕駛這些有多少人呢 你知道嗎 有14萬人部長 這5年來無照駕駛的累犯 他的裁判的人數跟件數人數以今年來說 以2023年去年來說 達到14萬5318人"},{"start":640.61,"end":641.53,"text":"是,跟委員報告"},{"start":669.54,"end":691.021,"text":"因為無照駕駛我想我們大概可以分成三類第一類就是說比較年長的年長的就是說他有可能就是他可能因為之前也有就是說他可能沒辦法考上駕照那對於年長的需求的部分其實我們現在正在就是說在各村林裡坐這一個幸福巴士幸福小黃讓他們不用去騎車"},{"start":692.262,"end":719.301,"text":"那就是說而且彈性預約用公車票價可以達到計程車的服務這是一類第二類就是年幼18歲以下的18歲以下本來現在就是說依法令規定就是不能考駕照那如果說無照的部分的話其實這邊包括就是說列管以及就是講習其實講習的時候還要求就家長要共同來那賦予就是說家長也要這個督促這個年幼18歲以下的"},{"start":719.921,"end":748.525,"text":"第3類其實就是在這個18歲以上其實他是因為這一個違規那重大的違規會被吊銷、吊扣、駕照那這個部分因為重大違規的處罰本來就應該就是說他有一個期間他比如說是3年、6年或是更長的你期間不能考照那這一個部分的話我想在這一類的這個部分的話未來我們其實監理機關跟這個當地的警察機關我想在"},{"start":748.865,"end":777.858,"text":"謝謝。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}