{"error":false,"id":["149492"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149492,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149492","日期":"2024-03-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-07T10:09:10+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-07T10:18:02+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbec05221ae49d6f24835d7358300cbb288f8ba9b0039caa7a6fc2af0c2ea075b345ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"10:09:10 - 10:18:02","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":441,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（10時9分）先請邱主委。"],["主席：有請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：張委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：主委，我承續剛剛蘇委員問的問題，其實關於歸化，我只問一個問題，就是我們有很多東南亞的僑生來臺灣念書，對不對？"],["邱主任委員太三：對，沒有錯，在亞洲大學就很多。"],["張委員宏陸：如果我們臺灣的年輕人跟東南亞的華人結婚，他歸化臺灣國籍的程序跟陸配有沒有一樣？"],["邱主任委員太三：當然不一樣。"],["張委員宏陸：有沒有一樣？"],["邱主任委員太三：外配跟陸配是不一樣的。"],["張委員宏陸：不一樣嘛，對不對？那他是華人喔，他是華人！我說的是東南亞的華人來臺灣唸書的很多，我們以前還有華僑高中、還有什麼，對不對？特別對這些我們以前講的華僑、現在可能講臺僑或什麼，我不管，他是華人，他的國文、中文講得也好，他還會講臺語呢！很多，對不對？他們過年也跟我們一樣，你現在去東南亞或很多地方，他們過年比我們臺灣還有年味，對不對？他們保留了比我們更多的傳統。"],["邱主任委員太三：麥委員就是，麥玉珍委員他也是東南亞的華人。"],["張委員宏陸：對，我要說的是，如果是東南亞不管哪一個國家的華人跟我們臺灣人結婚，他的歸化跟陸配是不一樣的，對不對？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["張委員宏陸：這樣的話對他們是不是很不公平啊？"],["邱主任委員太三：所以感謝委員，我確實誠懇地呼籲，這個問題真的是大家再稍微溝通一下，因為這個利弊得失如果一掀出來的話，反而是造成社會上更大的風波，所以為什麼說我們陸委會還是審慎保留，原因也在這裡，因為會無事起風波，真的是潘朵拉的盒子。"],["張委員宏陸：對啦，除了潘朵拉的盒子之外，我覺得很多事情臺灣也要在國際上讓人家看到，要公平，如果你的條件是一致的，我覺得這些華人也是跟其他外配一樣，全世界怎麼看臺灣？我覺得這個我們要考量。","另外，3月6日我們陸委會有公布一個赴陸就學不能不知道的8件事……"],["邱主任委員太三：這個我們很早就有了。對於國人要到大陸不管是經商、旅遊、念書或者是其他，我們大概都會跟他提起。"],["張委員宏陸：你們每年都會有，所以我想要在這邊請教一下主委，目前大概有多少學生赴中，你們知道嗎？有統計嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：估算上是這樣子，過去陸方也有一些統計，後來他們也不再做統計，但是我們從最近大概幾個報導跟幾個資料上來推算，我們教育部大概也有一些基本的估算，我們一年大概不到3,000個人過去，所以你如果把它累積4年，大概在一萬多左右。"],["張委員宏陸：主委，中國都對外宣稱我們每年有好千人去那邊就學……"],["邱主任委員太三：大概2,500左右。"],["張委員宏陸：不、不，你先聽我講完，很多人，但我不知道啦。但是根據我們教育部的統計，應屆高中畢業生赴中就學每年大概300人，這是教育部的資料。"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道我們赴中唸書的有可能是臺商的子女或什麼在那邊……"],["邱主任委員太三：臺商子弟學校。"],["張委員宏陸：那個不一樣嘛，但如果就教育部說每個大概300個人，這是教育部的資料，跟中國宣傳的每年好幾千人差很多耶！"],["邱主任委員太三：報告委員，因為有的是大學畢業去念碩士班或研究所，不是只有高中生而已，這個可能不同。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道，但去念研究所的，這個300個人而已，又有好幾千人嗎？我覺得這個不是要考試的問題，我是覺得這個數字也要正確，也要讓我們臺灣的學子知道這個到底是怎麼樣。它一直宣傳好幾千人，好像去那邊很好，然後就業還要給你優待、什麼的，就畫一個很圓滿的願景給你，對不對？就是要吸收臺灣的人才，然後把臺灣人去那邊就業、什麼的，到時候有一些……你也知道在中國不管哪裡都有思想的……讓你慢慢地……"],["邱主任委員太三：他們現在愛國教育法會比較……"],["張委員宏陸：對呀，都有思想的問題，所以我覺得這個必須要讓我們的青年學子知道數字是多少，我覺得……"],["邱主任委員太三：我們來跟教育部再看怎麼樣的方式，包括海基會，其實他們也有關心臺生的小組。"],["張委員宏陸：對呀，所以我覺得這個要啦！不然你看，你們有實施愛國主義教育法等等的，然後還有到時候他們如果念完大學要再去國外繼續留學深造，這個利弊得失我覺得要讓我們的年輕人知道這一點，要不然訊息錯誤的話，我覺得不好，這一點可能要麻煩你們。","還有一個我還是要請教一下，他們的三中全會是不是都還沒召開？我是說中國的三中全會。"],["邱主任委員太三：基本上我們也一直持續在觀察，很奇怪，到現在都還沒有召開，所以這也會影響到他們兩會到底報告的內容會有什麼樣的重點；第二個，人事的問題會不會積極地處理？這個都有一點連動，所以我們都在持續觀察當中。"],["張委員宏陸：對啦，我為什麼要特別請教這個？我覺得這個應該不是只有我們臺灣會關心，應該是全世界都在關心，這個是非常不尋常的，連總理的中外記者會也取消，這一連串的不尋常，我覺得他們怎麼樣我們當然插不上，但我們要注意這種些微的怪的地方在哪裡。我覺得事出必有因，有這麼奇怪的動作，我相信主委說你已經有注意到了，我只是要說，有奇怪的不尋常的動作發生，我們可能要提早因應，我覺得這個可能是全世界關注的，我覺得大家要小心。"],["邱主任委員太三：對，謝謝。我再跟委員做一個補充，其實另外有一個他們的法律修正大概就可以看出未來的一些端倪，就是所謂國務院組織法的修改裡面有一條是說要接受黨的思想領導，所以很顯然習他不只是黨而已，他連國務院都想要介入，這也連動到剛剛您有提到、注意到的，也就是說，為什麼總理李強的記者會也被取消掉了，因為恐怕他們所有的政策都是他一人拍定，你不能隨便詮釋、解釋。"],["張委員宏陸：對，很多媒體都已經這樣講了，所以我是說對於這個大的變化，我們可能要提早因應，畢竟我們是鄰居、很近，然後又有很多事情就不多說了，我相信你們……"],["邱主任委員太三：我們會來注意。"],["張委員宏陸：我相信你們都有，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員太三：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張宏陸委員的質詢，也謝謝主委。","繼續我們請牛煦庭委員來質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":268,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-4","speakers":["高金素梅","麥玉珍","徐欣瑩","羅智強","王美惠","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃捷","黃建賓","丁學忠","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","張智倫","許宇甄"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2024-03-07"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130701_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":3.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.8615937500000004,"end":4.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.08034375,"end":8.856593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.13909375,"end":16.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.09159375,"end":20.972843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.95159375,"end":25.360343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.81596875,"end":26.153468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.153468750000002,"end":26.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.38971875,"end":26.777843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.777843750000002,"end":26.879093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.879093750000003,"end":28.364093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.419093750000002,"end":29.157218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.157218750000002,"end":30.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.92909375,"end":31.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.75596875,"end":35.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.78909375,"end":36.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.10534375,"end":39.096593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.41721875,"end":40.665968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.12159375,"end":41.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.134093750000005,"end":42.471593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.70784375,"end":42.977843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.26471875,"end":43.939718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.040968750000005,"end":46.454093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.62284375,"end":46.673468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.72409375,"end":49.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.398468750000006,"end":52.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.37284375,"end"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教育部再看怎麼樣的方式包括海基會其實他們也有關心台商那個台生的這個小組"},{"start":335.015,"end":361.051,"text":"對阿所以我覺得這個要啦齁不然你看阿他們有實施愛國主義教育法等等的然後還有那到時候他們如果說念完大學要再去國外要繼續留學深造這個利弊得失我覺得要讓我們的年輕人知道這一點啦阿不然齁這個訊息錯誤的話齁我覺得是不好啦齁好這一點可能是要麻煩你們啦齁那"},{"start":364.839,"end":367.304,"text":"還有一個還是要請教一下這一個他們的三中全會是不是都還沒召開"},{"start":378.258,"end":403.138,"text":"我說中國的啊中國的啊山中全會啊基本上我們也一直持續在觀察很奇怪到現在都還沒有召開所以這也會影響到我們在他兩會齁到底報告的內容會有什麼樣的重點第二個人事的問題會不會來積極的注意這個都有一點連動啦所以我們都在持續在觀察當中"},{"start":405.115,"end":422.303,"text":"對啦我為什麼會特別請教這個我覺得這個應該不是只有我們台灣會關心應該是全世界在關心這個是非常不尋常的非常不尋常的連總理的中外記者會取消然後連什麼這一連串的不尋常的我覺得"},{"start":424.5,"end":444.958,"text":"他們的怎麼樣我們當然超不上但我們要注意這種些微的這些怪怪的地方在哪裡那我覺得事出必有因有這麼奇怪的動作我覺得我相信你們可能也如果主委說你已經有注意到了我只是要說就是說"},{"start":446.212,"end":472.766,"text":"有奇怪的不尋常的動作發生我們可能要提早因應有什麼的我覺得這個可能是全世界關注的我覺得這個大家要小心一點我再跟委員做一個補充其實另外有一個他們的法律的修正才是大概就可以看出未來的一些端倪他這個所謂國務院的組織法的修改裡面有一條是說要接受黨的領導"},{"start":474.967,"end":495.468,"text":"指向領導所以很顯然習呢他不只是黨而已他連國務院他都想要介入那這也連動到剛剛您有提到注意到的也就是說為什麼這個總理李強的記者會也被取消掉了因為恐怕他們所有的政策都是他一人派定你不能隨便詮釋"},{"start":497.029,"end":497.049,"text":"解釋"},{"start":523.069,"end":524.152,"text":"好謝謝張宏陸委員的質詢謝謝謝謝也謝謝主委謝謝繼續我們請劉許廷委員來質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}