{"error":false,"id":["149513"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149513,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149513","日期":"2024-03-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-07T10:39:49+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-07T10:50:51+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:02","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbef84ee806b29eac51f84c29b94b9165f0f8ba9b0039caa7a6efa4b89b7a34049c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"10:39:49 - 10:50:51","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理(含各轉投資事業機構公股代表之董、監事)列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月4日及7日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":538,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（10時39分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：有請莊部長。"],["賴委員惠員：還有國庫署署長。"],["主席：國庫署署長。"],["賴委員惠員：第一金控。"],["主席：第一金控董事長。"],["賴委員惠員：土地銀行、兆豐金控。"],["主席：有被點名到的，請大家主動上來。"],["賴委員惠員：部長早安。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：我延續禮拜一租賃公司的議題請教部長，八家公股行庫借了租賃業多少錢，你有掌握嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：到2月底，八家公股行庫對於融資公司、租賃公司的貸款餘額總共是1,246億。"],["賴委員惠員：我的資料是1,268億，總而言之，就是一千兩百多億，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，沒錯。"],["賴委員惠員：這八家公股銀行行庫貸款給融資公司，你們知道他們做了什麼嗎？我把貸款餘額統計出來了，請問國庫署對於融資租賃公司拿了這一千多億的錢做了什麼、有沒有辦法還款，你們是不是有掌握呢？"],["陳署長柏誠：因為銀行在放貸給融資公司的時候，都會落實做好貸後管理，所以除了查核借款人貸款資金的實際用途以外，也會防止銀行資金流入非原核貸用途。"],["賴委員惠員：基本上，他們有符合金融業的ESG的標準嗎？"],["陳署長柏誠：是，這個他們會去檢視。"],["賴委員惠員：沒有錯，對不對？基本上，為了符合ESG的標準，銀行授信以前必須嚴格審查。第一金控公告的ESG在授信審查機制流程圖裡頭特別強調，公司內控的負面議題及是不是承作高爭議性產業都要納入風險評估，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["賴委員惠員：第一金控董事長，這個是你們自己做的，對不對？"],["邱董事長月琴：是。"],["賴委員惠員：沒有問題？"],["邱董事長月琴：是。"],["賴委員惠員：再請教部長跟署長，目前八大公股銀行行庫裡頭是不是都採用相同或是相近標準做授信前的審查？"],["莊部長翠雲：所有公股行庫在授信前都有一定的審查，而且都必須符合金管會以及銀行公會所有的授信審查原則。"],["賴委員惠員：部長，你打開你的手機只要用一個關鍵字「貸」，跳出來的全部都是一臺摩托車可以借30萬，輕輕鬆鬆不用財力證明、一臺超過15年的汽車可以借到80萬。你試著操作看看，業者輕鬆把放款的額度給學生、沒有資產能力、比較下階層的這些人，雖然規定禁止承作高爭議性產業，但這個是不是高爭議性的產業？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員是基於保護年輕人，他有時候因為覺得便利就去貸款，結果讓自己身上背了一堆債，然後造成自己的信用整個就不好了，對他未來人生有影響。這個部分我們在貸出去的時候是給企業戶。至於這些企業戶，您可能關心的是企業戶貸到以後，錢拿去做什麼用。"],["賴委員惠員：你們不是說你們會追查嗎？究竟八大公股銀行借出去的錢做了什麼？你們說你們都有監控，結果租賃公司是從銀行搬了錢，然後在做地下錢莊的工作，你們為什麼不管呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：各個銀行在貸款出去以後，對資金用途都會做貸後管理。"],["賴委員惠員：目前租賃業的龍頭就是中租，從中租的財報來看，中租2023年12月底在臺灣的債權延滯率高達2.3%，換算的總金額是90億，而銀行去年12月底的逾放率僅0.1%，相較之下，前者超過23倍，你怎麼解釋呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們跟金管會瞭解，他已經約談了中租、和潤跟裕融三家租賃業者。我們會進一步瞭解銀行跟這些租賃業者的風險管理。"],["賴委員惠員：所以財政部不用管？"],["莊部長翠雲：要管。"],["賴委員惠員：這些公股銀行是歸你管的，這些銀行提供了錢給租賃公司去做這麼多事情，你們怎麼講？你們把他推給……"],["莊部長翠雲：不是。我跟委員報告一下，委員提出這個問題非常重要，接下來我們會請公股行庫全盤瞭解這些租賃公司融資貸款的資金用途，然後要把ESG因素納進來。"],["賴委員惠員：你所有的回答基本上都是非常空的。土地銀行在2024年統籌主辦中租的聯貸案，有沒有將中租迪和放高利貸及高延滯率納入風險評估呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個個案是不是可以由土地銀行來說明？"],["賴委員惠員：我剛剛就有請土地銀行出列。土地銀行在去年11月統籌主辦了中租迪和3年期的聯貸71億，你們說是支持綠電產業，可是這裡頭參與聯貸的還有兆豐、合庫及華南，對不對？"],["謝董事長娟娟：是。"],["賴委員惠員：你有沒有去追蹤呢？這些錢是真的放在綠電產業，還是送到中國大陸去了？"],["謝董事長娟娟：我們當初籌組這一筆聯貸案的主要資金用途是去建立太陽能電廠，所以完全符合用於綠電產業。"],["賴委員惠員：你有追嗎？"],["謝董事長娟娟：當然是，這是貸後管理最重要的一部分。"],["賴委員惠員：我下一次再請教土銀，你所有借出去的錢、借給租賃公司的錢是不是有到中國去？這個也要再跟你特別探討。","我要跟現場所有的金融機構說，ESG的S就是社會責任，你們是不是有幫市井小民在擋呢？他們背著高利貸，一臺摩托車可以借到30萬，一個學生需要買手機、需要買好的包包或需要怎麼樣的時候，輕易借到了這些錢，卻變成負債永遠還不完。對於ESG，你們有沒有盡到社會責任呢？顯然在每一個領域，你們全部都推來推去，怎麼辦呢？這個租賃公司越來越大尾，它既可以是當舖，也可以是銀行。它從銀行搬錢，你們授權給它的時候非常慷慨，讓它輕鬆在公股銀行搬到錢，然後做這些高利貸的工作，怎麼辦呢？無法可管！部長回答我。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員的提示。這個部分貸後的管理非常重要，也就是資金的流向，銀行會專款專用，成立專戶必須做一定的資金用途。至於您剛剛提到，租賃公司有沒有把這個錢拿去放高利貸，讓許多年輕人不小心貸了錢，造成一輩子信用上的影響，我們會請公股行庫特別注意這個部分，對貸後管理資金流向都要有進一步的理解。"],["賴委員惠員：我們必須要講出真正的問題，到底是需要修法，還是需要用什麼樣的法制面修正？我們不可以再不正視這個問題。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，認同。"],["賴委員惠員：你有沒有什麼比較好的建議？站在你個人的角度，你怎麼看待這個問題呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個問題確實如委員所說的要去重視，不能把從公股行庫貸出去的錢挪做高利貸，這是絕對不行的。"],["賴委員惠員：我建議你要檢討公股行庫ESG的認定標準，除了將租賃業對民眾的放款利率、放款標準，還有延滯率等納入授信的標準以外，你千萬、千萬不能讓公股銀行成為合法高利貸的幫兇，顯然你們現在就是幫兇了，而你們不自覺，你們還一而再、再而三地一直在協助他們。公股行庫若是發現已放貸的租賃業從事對學生放高利貸的行為時，你們是不是可以依契約收回貸款的款項？有沒有辦法？還有日漸升溫的中國經濟泡沫的問題，公股行庫除了減少在中國的暴險機制以外，應該嚴格追蹤所有放款對象是不是有轉投資到中國，希望1個月內給我這樣的書面報告，謝謝部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝賴惠員委員的質詢。待會顏寬恒委員質詢之後休息10分鐘。","接著我們請顏寬恒委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":378,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-2","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","王世堅","王鴻薇","賴惠員","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","羅明才","陳玉珍"],"page_start":323,"meetingDate":["2024-03-07"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理（含各轉投資事業機構公股代\n表之董、監事）列席業務報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130701_00006"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.35159375000000004,"end":1.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.6890937500000001,"end":1.4653437500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.70159375,"end":2.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.199093749999999,"end":6.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.970343750000001,"end":11.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.41721875,"end":13.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.125968750000002,"end":28.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.97159375,"end":37.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.84784375,"end":37.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":37.86471875,"end":47.635343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":47.97284375,"end":54.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.141593750000006,"end":49.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":54.94221875,"end":71.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.67346875,"end":81.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.06034375,"end":89.77221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":87.10596875,"end":93.29909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.68346875,"end":91.02096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.36659375,"end":94.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.78409375000001,"end":96.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":94.80096875000001,"end":95.44221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.42096875,"end":98.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.16346875,"end":97.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.43346875,"end":98.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.37409375,"end":107.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.19971875,"end":109.29659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":109.66784375,"end":118.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.15159375,"end":125.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.10409375,"end":135.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":135.94221875,"end":137.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.97596875000002,"end":136.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.42721875,"end":139.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.83596875,"end":142.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.91596875000002,"end":142.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.57409375,"end":143.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":143.26596875,"end":143.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":143.63721875000002,"end":144.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.29534375,"end":144.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":145.29096875000002,"end":145.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":146.11784375000002,"end":159.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.34784375,"end":159.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.97221875,"end":168.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":168.52784375000002,"end":168.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":168.86534375000002,"end":169.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":170.23221875000002,"end":176.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.56034375000002,"end":176.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.31971875000002,"end":179.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":180.23909375000002,"end":181.92659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.07409375,"end":186.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":187.22534375,"end":189.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":190.12784375,"end":192.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":192.59159375000002,"end":193.43534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":193.72221875000002,"end":194.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.02159375000002,"end":201.38346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":201.70409375000003,"end":212.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.04409375,"end":233.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":230.03721875000002,"end":237.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.32721875000001,"end":239.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":239.72346875000002,"end":241.34346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":241.79909375000003,"end":242.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.84534375,"end":250.64159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.24471875,"end":252.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.26159375,"end":252.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.52721875,"end":260.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.13346875,"end":269.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.82534375,"end":263.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":269.77784375000005,"end":281.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":281.67471875,"end":289.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.52159375,"end":290.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":290.75346875,"end":293.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.61346875000004,"end":311.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":308.84346875,"end":324.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.52596875,"end":315.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":324.77346875,"end":326.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.96721875000003,"end":342.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":338.98221875,"end":346.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":347.65596875,"end":361.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.53971875,"end":367.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":366.37034375,"end":367.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.19721875000005,"end":367.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":368.71596875,"end":370.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":370.89284375,"end":371.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":377.64284375,"end":386.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":387.27846875,"end":390.33284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":390.51846875,"end":395.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.40784375000004,"end":396.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":397.48784375,"end":404.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.33971875000003,"end":400.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":405.11534375,"end":406.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.02221875000004,"end":423.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":411.32534375,"end":411.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":423.45846875,"end":445.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.05909375000005,"end":441.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.32909375,"end":441.34596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":445.51409375000003,"end":448.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.22659375,"end":450.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.66096875000005,"end":456.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.27596875,"end":462.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":463.45221875000004,"end":466.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":467.67096875000004,"end":469.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":469.89846875,"end":474.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":474.53909375,"end":475.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.32784375000006,"end":481.10346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":481.55909375000005,"end":482.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":483.02721875000003,"end":493.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":493.69221875000005,"end":495.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":495.81846875,"end":498.36659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":499.95284375000006,"end":501.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":501.84284375000004,"end":502.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":503.69909375000003,"end":507.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":507.79971875,"end":511.34346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":511.91721875,"end":514.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":516.0347187500001,"end":518.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.15659375,"end":520.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":520.5403437500001,"end":521.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.69159375,"end":524.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.7084687500001,"end":554.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.1115937500001,"end":537.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":553.2609687500001,"end":567.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.6528437500001,"end":557.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.3178437500001,"end":567.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.57096875,"end":568.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":568.38096875,"end":575.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.8703437500001,"end":569.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.97471875,"end":585.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":585.0365937500001,"end":603.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":604.29096875,"end":614.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":614.7197187500001,"end":631.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":631.57784375,"end":634.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":635.1047187500001,"end":651.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.66346875,"end":650.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.50721875,"end":651.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":651.54096875,"end":651.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.7434687500001,"end":652.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.9753437500001,"end":658.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.6284687500001,"end":658.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.38784375,"end":661.1597187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.359,"end":5.722,"text":"第一金控董事長有被點名到請大家自動上來部長早安"},{"start":12.435,"end":35.637,"text":"部長我想延續在禮拜一就是我們的租賃公司的這個議題那我請教就是部長就是八家的公股、行庫借了租賃業多少錢你有掌握嗎跟委員報告到2月底八家公股、行庫對於融資公司的租賃公司貸款餘額總共是1246億"},{"start":37.879,"end":53.515,"text":"一千兩百四十六億那我的資料是一千兩百六十八億那總反正因為總資就是一千兩百多億對不對那這八家公股銀行行庫代給融資公司我們知道他們做了什麼嗎"},{"start":55.014,"end":71.642,"text":"我們可以看到了就是說這個貸款的餘額我們把它統計了出來那請問國庫署對於融資的一個主任公司拿了這些一千多億的錢做了什麼有沒有辦法還款你是不是有掌握呢"},{"start":73.7,"end":92.81,"text":"根委員報告因為對於銀行在放貸給融資公司的時候他們都會做好落實他們的貸貸後管理所以除了差和借款人貸款資金的實力用途以外也會防止銀行那個資金流入所以就是說基本上他們都是有符合到我們金融業的ESG的一個標準嗎?"},{"start":93.67,"end":107.198,"text":"是啊 這個他們會去檢視沒有錯嘛 對不對所以就是說我們基本上就是說所有就是ESG的一個標準我們銀行的授信以前我們必須要嚴格的去審查"},{"start":108.271,"end":134.366,"text":"好,部長,嚴格的去審查在這裡頭我們從這個低金控公告的ESG裡頭有特別特別的強調就是說在授信前的一個那個審查的一個機制的一個流程圖裡頭特別強調公司內控的一個負面的一個議題還有是不是乘坐高爭議性的一個產業我們都要納入風險的評估"},{"start":136.128,"end":138.862,"text":"是的!是的!那個第一金控董事長 對不對?"},{"start":141.102,"end":168.344,"text":"這個是你們自己做的?是,回答委員是的沒有問題?是好那還是一樣再請教部長跟署長目前就是八大公股銀行行庫裡頭是不是都採用相同或是相近標準的做受信錢的一個審查?所有公股行庫在受信錢都有一定的審查而且它必須符合金管會以及銀行公會所有的受信審查原則都要符合的"},{"start":168.945,"end":181.601,"text":"市部長我跟你講你只要打開你的手機用一個關鍵字只要一個貸款的貸那你全部跳出來的是什麼一台摩托車可以"},{"start":183.12,"end":211.595,"text":"借30萬輕輕鬆鬆不用財力證明然後一台超過15年的汽車可以借到80萬你試著操作看看就是業者在換款的額度的一個輕鬆給這些學生然後給這些沒有資產能力比較下階層的這些人那是不是就是禁止乘坐高正義性這個是不是高正義性的產業"},{"start":213.767,"end":238.629,"text":"委員是基於保護年輕人他有時候就因為覺得便利就去貸款結果讓自己身上背了一堆債然後造成自己的信用整個就不好了對他人生未來是有影響那這個部分我們在貸出去的時候是給企業戶那至於這個企業戶您可能關心的是企業戶貸到以後錢拿去做什麼用八大公股銀行他們借出去的錢你們做了什麼"},{"start":239.77,"end":260.265,"text":"你們說你們都有監控結果租賃公司是從銀行搬了錢然後再做地下錢莊的工作那我們為什麼不管呢?為什麼不管?我想這個部分讓我們各個銀行在貸款出去以後對的資金用途都會有做貸後管理"},{"start":262.365,"end":280.034,"text":"事實上顯現出來在下一頁部長我再讓你看目前的在這個整個租賃業裡頭的龍頭的話就是我們中租中租的一個財報來看的話我們中租2023年12月底在我們台灣的債權研製力高達2.3"},{"start":281.815,"end":289.967,"text":"那這樣換算的話他總金額是90億相較之下的銀行去年12月底的預放率他僅0.1%這個超過23%你怎麼解釋呢?"},{"start":295.643,"end":323.838,"text":"跟委員報告那金管會我們跟金管會了解他也會將來會約他也會約已經約談了中租、合潤跟裕隆三家租賃業者那麼我們會進一步的會去了解銀行跟這些租賃業者的風險管理那這些公管銀行那個這些公股銀行是歸你管的然後這些人這些銀行提供了錢給租賃公司然後去做這麼多事情那"},{"start":324.838,"end":345.957,"text":"你們怎麼講?你們把他推給...不是,我想跟委員報告一下,那委員提出這個問題也是非常重要那我們接下來會請我們公股、航空對這些租賃公司的一個融資貸款去全盤了解它的一個資金用途部長,你所有的回答其實基本上都是非常空的土地銀行在下一頁"},{"start":347.674,"end":371.454,"text":"土地銀行在2024年統籌就是你們租給那個中租的一個年代案有沒有將中租抵合放高利貸及高研製的一個研製力納入風險的評估呢我想這個個案是不是可以由土地銀行來做說明的個案我剛就有請土地銀行要出列了"},{"start":377.714,"end":402.853,"text":"所以土地銀行在去年的11頁你統籌主辦了中租抵合三年期那就是貸給他71億那你們講了說支持歷電產業可是你這裡頭連帶的還有兆豐還有和庫還有華蘭對不對是那你有沒有去追蹤呢報告委員這些錢是真的放在歷電產業還是"},{"start":405.265,"end":418.829,"text":"送到中國大陸去了報告委員我們當初籌組這筆聯貸案它的主要資金用途去它是去建立這個太陽能的電廠所以是完全符合綠色綠電的一個產業你有追嗎當然是這是貸貨管理最重要的一部分"},{"start":423.53,"end":447.297,"text":"是,好,那這樣子我跟你講甚至我在土銀我下一次再請教你所有你借出去的錢你借給租賃公司的錢它是不是有到中國去這個也是要再跟你特別再做一個我們再做一個探討所以在這裡我要跟所有在現場的我們所有的這個相關在金融的一個機構裡頭"},{"start":449.281,"end":466.196,"text":"一SG這個S就是社會責任我們是不是有幫世紀人小明就是在擋呢他們背著一個高利貸一台摩托車可以借到30萬一個學生他在他需要買手機他需要買"},{"start":467.705,"end":495.776,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":496.216,"end":521.264,"text":"這個租賃公司越來越大尾他也可以是當鋪也可以是銀行那從銀行搬錢了那你們在這個錢授權給他的時候你們也非常的慷慨那他輕鬆的在公股銀行搬到錢了然後就做這些高利貸的工作那怎麼辦啊無法可管"},{"start":524.704,"end":554.122,"text":"部長回答我是謝謝委員的提示我想這個部分代後的管理非常重要也就是資金的流向我們銀行有時候會專款專用對成立一個專戶做一定的資金用途這是您剛剛提到的就是說租賃公司有沒有把這個錢拿去以後去放高利貸讓許多年輕人不小心就是帶了錢然後造成他一輩子的信用上的一些影響我想我們這個部分會請公股航空特別注意然後對代後管理資金流向都要有所進一步的理解"},{"start":554.582,"end":554.682,"text":"這是絕對不行的"},{"start":584.634,"end":614.057,"text":"是我想就是說最後一頁這個部長我想想這樣子建議就是說你要檢討公股行庫ESG的一個認定標準那將主任業對民眾的一個換款的利率還有就是換款的標準還有顏值利等納入授信的標準以外你千萬千萬不能讓公股銀行成為合法高利貸的一個幫兇顯然你們現在就是幫兇了而你們不自覺你們還一直"},{"start":614.857,"end":633.956,"text":"一而再再而三的一直在協助他們公股行庫若是發現以放貸的租賃業從事對學生的放高利貸的一個行為的時候你們是不是可以依契約收回貸款的款項有沒有辦法還有日漸升溫的中國經濟泡沫的一個問題"},{"start":635.157,"end":653.245,"text":"公股行戶除了減少在中國的曝險機制以外是不是應該嚴格的追蹤就是我們所有換款的對象是不是有轉投資到中國希望一個業內給我這樣子的一個素面報告謝謝部長謝謝委員謝謝賴惠惠委員的質詢待我們顏寬文委員質詢之後呢我們休息10分鐘接著我們請顏寬文委員質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}