{"error":false,"id":["149519"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149519,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149519","日期":"2024-03-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-07T10:59:48+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-07T11:12:23+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:35","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbe5cc6d6f998b7a4feaaa95e40c3cff622f8ba9b0039caa7a60286c07e1faf730b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"傅崐萁","委員發言時間":"10:59:48 - 11:12:23","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1444,"blocks":[["傅委員崐萁：（10時59分）部長早。"],["蔡部長清祥：總召好。"],["傅委員崐萁：現在是打詐、打詐，越打越詐！已經從102年的1萬8,000件到去年的3萬7,900件，財務損失也從102年的37億到去年的88.79億，被害人數從102年的2萬4,000人到去年的5萬9,000人，難道法務部對打詐都拿不出相關的辦法來嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：跟委員說明，在法務部的職掌範圍內，我們也提出了相關法律的修正，在執行面上，我們也要求檢警調大家要全力以赴，來做一個有效的打擊還有偵辦。"],["傅委員崐萁：這樣啦！對於提高刑度的部分，是不是法務部可以直接提出來？"],["蔡部長清祥：刑度的提高還有構成要件的更嚴謹，各種新型態的詐騙，我們都有提出修法的建議。"],["傅委員崐萁：因為不能老是說這個是車手，對車手就從輕，其實為什麼當一個車手就有這麼高的所得，他難道沒有一點基本常識嗎？對不對？所以基本上這就是共犯之一。這個部分可能也要跟司法院溝通一下，因為對車手一切從輕，所以現在外役監幾乎都是詐騙團，詐騙團現在都在外役監，而害臺灣害得最慘的就是這群人！不說一般百姓，光我就接過不曉得多少次的詐騙電話，我接過很多次，所以法務部應該拿出辦法，去跟NCC及所有這些單位，大家一起商討出一個應對的辦法，不然我們一天到晚接到詐騙電話，這真的很奇怪。所以部長不要越打越詐，該加重刑度就加重刑度，讓這個問題至少趨勢是下降的，不要每年逐步都在上升，我們喊打詐喊了多少年！所以這個東西請部長多留意，好不好？"],["蔡部長清祥：好，謝謝。"],["傅委員崐萁：另外，我要特別請教一下，昨天臺南又出現一個天坑，在臺南中西區的五妃街，這個建設公司叫皇龍建設，也是賴清德總統當選人跟黃偉哲市長競選總部的提供者。對昨天發生的這個天坑，是不是比照一下新竹縣？貴部約談楊文科縣長還要交保，而且是重金交保，法務部是不是要硬起來給大家看一下，一樣是天坑事件，辦的方法有沒有不一樣，可以嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：跟委員說明，因為每一個案件它的事實內容如何是不一樣……"],["傅委員崐萁：那就趕快啟動嘛！不要跟我講個案不同，好不好？"],["蔡部長清祥：如果有涉及刑事責任的話，當然檢察官他們會依法處理。"],["傅委員崐萁：你既然講到刑事責任，那麼一樣的事情，我再請教一下，臺南市經發局陳凱凌前局長是貪污的累犯、慣犯，為什麼法務部在2022年九合一大選前，有人在臺南市當街開了88槍，88槍開完以後，又開了10槍，10槍開完，又再一個當街槍擊爆頭身亡，全國矚目這麼重大的事情！而這個陳凱凌局長本身就是貪污的累犯、慣犯，去年3月6號搜索完約談員工，員工已經講得很清楚、科員講得很清楚，陳凱凌說是上級指示的，在資料不齊備的情況之下，還要為這個光電業者來申辦。為什麼去年3月6號就搜索約談，卻要到今年的2月29號才約談黃偉哲市長，這是很奇怪的事情。這在藍營的縣市，科員講完後，隔天就搜索約談了，為什麼可以躲過這麼長的總統大選期間，隔了將近一年才來約談？部長是不是能告訴我一下？"],["蔡部長清祥：因為每一個案件，它的案情不同……"],["傅委員崐萁：不要再講每一個案件了……"],["蔡部長清祥：我沒辦法……"],["傅委員崐萁：這科員就已經講得很清楚了嘛……"],["蔡部長清祥：案件也不是我在處理的嘛！"],["傅委員崐萁：當然不是你在處理，也不是我在處理嘛！"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["傅委員崐萁：但司法要讓人家信服，對不對？為什麼山水民調做出來的民調，有85%的人不相信檢察官，這個資料我發給你，你可以瞭解一下。這是創新高啊！有85%的人不相信！"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有啦！沒有那麼多啦！"],["傅委員崐萁：山水民調做的調查，你可以google一下，自己看完，下一次我再請教部長，好不好？為什麼科員都已經公開講陳凱凌局長告訴他是上級指示，局長的上級是誰？秘書長、副市長、市長？一個科員講的話，再加上他面對的這個東西，明明就是資料不全，不能辦的，為什麼可以承辦？而且又是光電案，這麼敏感的事情！然後經過將近一年才約談他的市長。局長說是上級指示，那麼上級在哪裡？這如果在藍營的縣市，我看可能隔天就約談，不認的話，就押人取供了。","所以，司法要如何讓人信服，這是非常重要的事情，這是皇后的貞操，現在還有人記得這句話嗎？皇后的貞操是怎麼樣？值多少錢？是值多少代價就可以交易的嗎？還是值多少官位就可以交易的嗎？你們應該秉公辦到底嘛！為什麼在新竹市，高虹安的事情選前就如火如荼？為什麼在臺南市發生這麼嚴重全國矚目的事情，科員也公開講了，局長告訴他上級指示，卻可以延宕一年才來約談？部長，我們要將心比心，司法是我們社會正義防線的最後一道底線，如果司法都不能正義，還談什麼國家正義？司法沒有正義，何有社會的互信？山水民調也是比較親綠的，你可以google一下，看一下它公布出來的數據，這是台灣公民聯盟請他們去做的民調。部長是在位最久的法務部長，當然我也預祝你能夠連任是最好，但這個部分至少要讓大家瞭解，85%什麼時候可以降下來？臺灣人民有85%的人認為政治辦案對檢察官有巨大影響，所以這個東西要怎麼樣把它降下來，請部長的腰桿要挺直，千萬不要有顏色辦案。","另外，本席再請教一個問題，今天你能回答就回答，不然就下一次回答。有關言論免責的部分，雖然有大法官第509號解釋，但是現在不管是網軍側翼或特定顏色的媒體，還有一般民眾，我們可以區分得出來，他就是網軍，法務部不能永遠都講因為他的IP設在國外，然後就沒有辦法。現在網軍已經起起都在國外，天天在帶風向、在洗腦、在做人身攻擊，法務部的辦法到底是什麼？能做什麼？不能永遠兩手一攤，說IP在國外，所以沒有辦法查。","再來，特定政治立場、側翼媒體，鏡電視的事情，本席在去年7月19日已經質詢過了，NCC有條件通過鏡電視的時候，已經很清楚在去年2月28日有條件通過它上架，大股東、原始股東在6年之內不得移轉。陳建平已經出來講了這麼多次，本席在去年院會質詢也請教過部長，裴偉的帳號公然匯錢給這些股東，陳耀祥也是貪污被告，你們還在用他字案，「他」到現在多久了，你們到底是辦還是不辨？一個媒體公器，一張執照價值連城，它關係到所有全國的閱聽人，但你們辦到哪裡去了？陳耀祥都要下臺了，你們辦到哪裡去了？有像辦高虹安案這麼快嗎？你們的理由是什麼？這關係到2,300萬閱聽人知的權利啊！鏡電視可以用這種態度？他的大股東早就已經移轉了。本席也告訴你，檢舉人已經具名告訴，就是在裴偉的帳號已經把錢匯給這些原始股東，查到現在查了多久了？你們清楚的去查一下，這不是個案，是重大的公共議題。本席去年請教到現在，部長，你辦一次給大家看一下嘛，好不好？我們熱烈期待你，可以回答嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：委員的指教，我都很仔細的聆聽，我們能夠做的，我一定會盡力的趕快把它完成。"],["傅委員崐萁：部長，你就最大了，什麼叫作你能夠做？你當然可以做，對不對？社會矚目的案件可以不用辦嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：我還是有我職權上的限制。"],["傅委員崐萁：社會矚目的案件，本來就是要立刻來處理，部長這個時候不能卸責，你是法務界的大家長，對於全國矚目的案子能夠不處理嗎？光查一個資金流程要查2年、3年、5年嗎？部長，這個事情請儘快將真相讓全國國人能夠瞭解，可以嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：謝謝指教。"],["傅委員崐萁：去年你也是跟我講謝謝指教，但我不曉得我們要指教到什麼時候，請給大家一個真相，讓全國國人能夠瞭解。謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝。我們現在開始處理臨時提案1案。宣讀後再進行處理，請宣讀。","近年來檢察機關新收案數量不斷攀升，特別是暴增的詐騙案件，使原本就人力不足的檢察體系雪上加霜。基層檢察官團體大聲疾呼，許多檢察官每月新收案件數量破百，巨量案件使檢察體系偵辦案件的能量瀕臨癱瘓，籲請法務部體恤基層儘速增補人力。","此外，檢察機關人力結構設計不良，工作負擔落差巨大，再加上檢察官人力與輔佐辦案其他人員的人力數不成比例，亟待從結構面重新檢討、有效改革。","為強化犯罪偵查效能，同時避免基層人力過勞，建請法務部針對檢察官、檢察事務官、書記官、檢察官助理、法警之人力配置、職掌分工與工作負擔，進行全面檢討評估，並針對增加各類員額之必要性與具體規畫期程、人力如何重新調整配置等關鍵問題，提出完整檢討規劃報告，於一個月內送交司法及法制委員會。","提案人：黃國昌　　傅崐萁　　謝龍介　　吳宗憲　　羅智強　　林思銘　　翁曉玲　　"],["主席：請問提案委員有無補充說明？黃委員要補充說明嗎？"],["黃委員國昌：我覺得這個事情已經談滿久了，相關提案委員還有社會上面最近這段時間的討論，基層檢察官團體也發聲，他們現在面臨的辦案壓力，我們不能要馬兒跑又要馬兒不吃草，因此針對相關合理的提案，包括法律的修正，我們基本上都支持。","但問題是，在面對有關的人力需求時，請重新針對目前的人力狀況好好盤整，是不是有勞逸不均的情形，其他的輔助人員是不是有必要一併在什麼樣的程度範圍內增加？我相信行政部門會負責任的去盤點現在的狀況，提出你們的需求。因為在司法院的立法計畫裡面，已很具體的在法院組織法要增加檢察官助理，禮拜一的時候，在他們的立法計畫報告中都已經寫出來了。至於其他辦案輔助人力的部分，現在面臨的狀況到底如何，請法務部能夠一併的盤整。"],["主席：請問法務部照案辦理有沒有意見？"],["蔡部長清祥：謝謝各位委員的關心，人力的需求，我們確實需要及早補充；不過要做一個全盤的盤整，請給我們多一點時間來做評估，因為一個月的時間，包括要對各種人力的職掌，還有人員的需求如何等等，是不是再長一點的時間來做規劃？"],["黃委員國昌：我們從善如流，就延到兩個月好不好？當然我也要尊重其他提案委員，包括主席在內的想法。"],["主席：我是沒意見。請問總召，本件如果延到兩個月，有無意見？"],["傅委員崐萁：法務部提出，我們敬表同意。"],["主席：請問法務部，如果改為兩個月，有沒有問題？"],["蔡部長清祥：好，可以接受。"],["主席：沒有問題的話，本件就照修正後通過。","接下來要麻煩翁曉玲委員代理主席。"],["主席（翁委員曉玲代）：接下來請吳召集委員宗憲進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-4","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","謝龍介","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","林思銘","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","傅崐萁","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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