{"error":false,"id":["149551"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149551,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149551","日期":"2024-03-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-07T11:46:25+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-07T11:57:05+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbe137583336616f8bd35d7358300cbb288f8ba9b0039caa7a612eae036270d068b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"11:46:25 - 11:57:05","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":969,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時46分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府首長官員、會場工作伙伴、媒體記者女士先生，有請邱主委。"],["主席：有請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：鍾委員好！"],["鍾委員佳濱：主委好！謝謝主委的關心，我今天要特別的來和你質詢、請教這個議題，這個議題的標題寫得很清楚，我想請教一下，請問主委，目前在臺灣有多少中配？我強調一下，當然，我是用中配，因為我們在地方是稱「中國配偶」，但是你是陸委會，你叫「陸配」，沒關係，就用你的方式，目前在臺灣有多少中配？人數？"],["邱主任委員太三：基本上，臺灣的新住民總加起來大概有60萬。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我是問中配。"],["邱主任委員太三：這裡面中配大概是三十五萬多、將近36萬。"],["鍾委員佳濱：將近36萬。"],["邱主任委員太三：三十五萬多。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我的資料大概是36萬。"],["邱主任委員太三：第二個，我還是要做幾個區別，因為有的委員不太清楚，這中間大概有12萬沒有住在臺灣，這些通常是臺幹的配偶或是子女，他們大部分都長期住在大陸，就像我的堂弟的太太。"],["鍾委員佳濱：帳面上有36萬，但是長期定居在中國境內的有十二萬多？"],["邱主任委員太三：大概12萬。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。"],["邱主任委員太三：大概還有二十四萬多住在臺灣，這24萬裡面大概……"],["鍾委員佳濱：那請問一下，這當中有多少擁有臺灣的戶籍？有多少是屬於長期居留？"],["邱主任委員太三：大概有14萬人已經拿到我們的定居身分證，另外有10萬人在三個不同的階段，可能是先來這邊團聚、依親居留或長期居留。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以14萬是長期居留？"],["邱主任委員太三：不是，14萬已經拿到定居了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：14萬是定居？"],["邱主任委員太三：24萬裡面有14萬已經定居了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有，你的定居和我的長期居留我怕混淆，我說的是取得戶籍。"],["邱主任委員太三：這2個不一樣，長期居留是定居的前身，長期居留之後才是定期居留。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，定居就是取得戶籍嘛？定居是不是就取得戶籍？"],["邱主任委員太三：定居才取得戶籍。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我是用取得戶籍，我的取得戶籍是你的定居，我說的長期居留就是沒有取得戶籍，是不是這樣？很清楚，我問的是有多少有戶籍？就是屬於定居的14萬。有多少是長期居留？11萬，這樣對不對？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：因為我用的term跟你用的term不太一樣。好，那我請教一下，請問你知道目前臺灣有多少外配嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：剛剛提到大概有60萬。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主委，你不要再跟我算加法，我直接告訴你好了，我感覺你是要用60萬讓我減，我減得都頭昏腦脹。來，大概有快21萬，是不是這樣？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那請問在這些外配當中，中國籍以外的這些外配中，有多少有戶籍？又有多少是屬於長期居留？"],["邱主任委員太三：這個部分要問移民署。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們沒有這個資料對不對？要問移民署，好，我幫你查出來了，有14萬有戶籍；有6萬8,000人屬於長期居留。主委，你非常清楚什麼是有戶籍、什麼是長期居留，我也很清楚。接下來我要再問外配和中配的入籍流程，你看這個對不對？外配不入籍可以取得長期居留，對不對？要5年嘛！是不是這樣子？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：取得國籍是3年，但是他取得國籍不見得能夠定居，還要取得戶籍才能定居對不對？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以長期居留對外配來講是一個選項，如果他要定居，就要設法先取得國籍，然後再來取得戶籍，是不是這樣？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很清楚，我沒有誤解吧！但是對中配來講呢！他長期居留要多久？他要多久才可以選擇長期居留？"],["邱主任委員太三：對啦！委員，我想你這個表應該很清楚，可以看得懂。"],["鍾委員佳濱：就是4年嘛！但是如果他要取得戶籍，因為他沒有取得國籍的問題，所以再2年他就可以取得戶籍定居，定居就是取得戶籍，那請教一下，中配來臺定居有比較嚴格嗎？你覺得這個表？"],["邱主任委員太三：因為各自的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：解讀不同？"],["邱主任委員太三：因為各自的定位不同。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，沒關係。因為長期居留跟永久居留都可以無限期居留，就算沒有定居也可以無限期居留，是不是這樣？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，接下來這個問題我要請教你，往下看，為什麼這些人選擇保留原籍，沒有來入籍？你覺得？譬如我常飛越南，我在飛越南時遇到越籍的外配來臺灣，他帶著小孩坐飛機回越南，我就很好奇，因為我發現他不是拿臺灣護照，而是拿越南護照，因為我知道，如果他來臺灣取得臺灣的國籍，那他就要放棄越南的國籍，他就不能拿越南的護照，他要拿臺灣的護照。我問他來臺灣多久了？孩子都這麼大了，你怎麼沒有取得臺灣的國籍和戶籍來拿臺灣的護照？他說，我常常要回娘家，我拿越南的護照比較方便，是不是這樣？而且我這個孩子是在臺灣出生，他的爸爸是臺灣人，他本來就有臺灣的國籍，但是我帶他去越南，我拿越南的護照就可以幫他辦越南的國籍，未來有機會他可以在越南唸書，也可以在臺灣唸書，兩邊都可以，你覺得這位越南媽媽這樣的作法是不是也是很多外配的原因？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想一定是之一。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是嘛！之一嘛！所以我要告訴大家，很多外配選擇長期居留而不選擇入國籍或取得戶籍，是因為他想要保留原國的國籍和護照，甚至在他的孩子已經取得臺灣國籍的情況下，他覺得帶孩子回母國還滿方便的，這是很多外配的心聲，你同意嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想情理之中。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那請問一下，在他沒有取得臺灣的戶籍跟國籍之前，如果他已經在臺灣長期居留了，那這跟他取得戶籍會有哪些待遇上的差別？他有沒有健保？有健保嘛！"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：差一張身分證差什麼？就是他不能投票，我都幫你講了，如果越配在臺灣沒有拿到身分證就不能投票，但是他放棄投票這個權利，維持擁有越南國籍和護照的方便，他可以帶他的小孩回去探親，他也可以讓他的小孩入越南的國籍，這樣他的小孩兩邊都可以唸書，是不是這樣？這是他們保留原籍的原因嘛！那請問一下，往下看，你覺得中配是不是也是這樣？這些選擇長期居留沒有入籍臺灣的中配，是不是也有這種考量？就跟越配一樣，我要帶孩子回上海或北京，你要知道，中國一線城市的戶籍如果放棄了要再取得容不容易？你笑笑的，我知道，因為在中國不同的省分，偏僻的省分要到一線城市取得戶籍很難，他如果結婚後來到臺灣，他要取得臺灣的身分證要放棄哪裡的戶籍？"],["邱主任委員太三：委員，我想你很清楚，這有很多複雜的東西，外界不一定那麼清楚，你一掀開就變成大家不得不去面對這些問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，我要說的是，其實這個議題很特別，我問過很多外配和中配，其實他們都覺得這是個人生活的選擇，有人為了子女，所以他選擇長期居留，他沒有要入臺灣的國籍或戶籍，他沒有要在臺灣定居，但是這樣他的權益有沒有受損？他在臺灣一樣有健保，對不對？但是中配不一樣。"],["邱主任委員太三：生活、工作、社會福利都差不多一樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：都OK！但是要看一看非本國籍配偶取得身分證規定，外配要入籍臺灣要怎樣？要放棄國籍對不對？中配要不要？沒有嘛！那歸化測試？外配要歸化到臺灣有國籍要不要測試？要不要？根據你所知的，內政部是要嘛！中配要不要？"],["邱主任委員太三：不用。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那你覺得中配來臺定居有比較嚴格嗎？好，往下看，因為時間快到了。中配的待遇高於外配，為什麼？因為外配的父母、子女不可以來臺依親，中配可不可以？"],["邱主任委員太三：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可以嘛！那健保的負擔？外配的父母來臺灣可以有健保嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：中配呢？不知道，要看居留的時間。"],["邱主任委員太三：對啦！"],["鍾委員佳濱：我也不會強拗，所以只有中配可以讓他的直系血親來臺依親。往下看，外籍配偶歸化要測試，這有3個選擇：就學一年、參加課程或通過測試，你覺得外配通過這個方式取得入籍臺灣合不合理？這不是……"],["邱主任委員太三：很多國家對於外配大部分都是這樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：都是這樣嘛！那你覺得中配比照外配是不是要通過歸化測試？類似的測試？"],["邱主任委員太三：我希望社會能夠有比較多的討論和共識。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，所以結論就讓你評估了，最後的結論，訴求一，中配入籍後優於外配的待遇，我們社會希望檢討，因為現在顯然社會都認為外配的待遇比較好，其實相反，中配比較好，那要檢討，可不可以檢討一下？不要一個國家兩個待遇，中配和外配的待遇不一樣，中配是你管的，可不可以考慮檢討？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想院長已經講過，他希望社會能夠多溝通，後續再來看要怎麼做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：多溝通，儘量一樣，對不對？第二個，我要求中配入籍可不可以比照外配通過考試？可不可以評估？先評估一下好不好？因為這有公平的問題，我遇到的越南媽媽和中國媽媽，為什麼越南媽媽來臺入籍要經過測試，中國媽媽不用？可不可以評估一下？"],["邱主任委員太三：委員的建議我們都會參考。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們評估後，把你們評估的結論給我可以嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：好，我們來參考一下。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝鍾佳濱的質詢，謝謝您！謝謝主委！主委，我要提醒您，其實健保的問題你剛才應該要再講清楚，探親的陸配家屬沒有濫用健保的問題，因為兩岸人民關係條例限制他們居留不可以超過6個月，對不對？目前依法陸配家屬要居留6個月以上才能夠拿到健保，但是這個條例不會讓他們待超過6個月，你剛應該要講清楚，所以健保濫用的問題是不存在的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我剛剛沒有問，所以他沒有回答。"],["主席：我現在要提醒，因為這個問題召委剛剛有提，但是你沒有時間回答，所以我現在補充回答，謝謝。","我們繼續請楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員質詢，不在。","陳亭妃、陳亭妃、陳亭妃委員，不在。","鄭天財、鄭天財、鄭天財委員，不在。","張嘉郡、張嘉郡、張嘉郡委員，不在。","張智倫、張智倫、張智倫委員，提書面報告。","王鴻薇、王鴻薇、王鴻薇委員，不在。","謝衣鳯、謝衣鳯、謝衣鳯委員，不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員，不在。","林思銘、林思銘、林思銘委員，不在。","邱志偉、邱志偉、邱志偉委員，不在。","林俊憲、林俊憲、林俊憲委員，不在。","林楚茵、林楚茵、林楚茵委員，不在。","蔡易餘、蔡易餘、蔡易餘委員，不在。","陳冠廷、陳冠廷、陳冠廷委員，不在。","登記發言的委員除不在場之外，其餘皆已發言完畢，詢答結束。","委員張智倫、許宇甄所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢與未及答復的部分，請相關單位在一週內以書面答復，並請副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":268,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-4","speakers":["高金素梅","麥玉珍","徐欣瑩","羅智強","王美惠","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃捷","黃建賓","丁學忠","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","張智倫","許宇甄"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2024-03-07"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130701_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.199093749999999,"end":10.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.99034375,"end":21.985343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.20471875,"end":23.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.38159375,"end":25.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.48221875,"end":37.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.72971875,"end":49.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.85471875,"end":48.344093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.05284375,"end":54.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.65971875,"end":55.094093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.02659375,"end":59.751593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.751593750000005,"end":63.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.034093750000004,"end":70.34909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.66221875000001,"end":65.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.21034375,"end":67.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.07471875,"end":77.72346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.10846875,"end":71.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.74034375000001,"end":79.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.48284375,"end":81.75659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.69784375,"end":85.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.86596875000001,"end":87.24096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.24096875000001,"end":88.25346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.51096875,"end":87.64596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.00034375,"end":89.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.99596875,"end":94.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.68284375,"end":96.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.50534375000001,"end":101.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.44971875,"end":101.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.83784375,"end":109.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.19596875,"end":105.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.70159375,"end":111.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.59159375,"end":112.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.65034375,"end":115.25346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.25346875000001,"end":115.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.30409375,"end":115.47284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.75971875,"end":123.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.81034375,"end":117.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.40034375,"end":129.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.46284375,"end":129.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.49159375000002,"end":134.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.90909375,"end":133.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.27159375000002,"end":136.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.85346875000002,"end":137.71409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.43971875,"end":141.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.57846875,"end":143.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.02534375000002,"end":148.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.65784375,"end":146.96159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.10471875000002,"end":150.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.21846875,"end":152.85096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.49221875,"end":157.59284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.47909375,"end":164.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.31846875000002,"end":159.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.98471875,"end":162.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.96721875,"end":167.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.56596875000002,"end":167.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.44346875000002,"end":172.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.02909375000002,"end":174.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.09659375,"end":174.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.97409375,"end":175.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.59846875000002,"end":191.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.61534375000002,"end":176.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.22596875000002,"end":183.24284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.24284375000002,"end":183.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.86596875,"end":194.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.19034375,"end":197.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.50221875000003,"end":197.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.66659375,"end":201.73784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.97409375,"end":203.39159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.96534375000002,"end":204.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.12971875000002,"end":206.90159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.23909375000002,"end":208.15034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.74096875,"end":212.25096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.43659375000001,"end":214.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.68096875,"end":214.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.23784375000002,"end":218.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.78159375,"end":222.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.52784375000002,"end":224.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.53596875000002,"end":224.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.90721875000003,"end":225.76784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.98721875,"end":226.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.93221875,"end":227.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.18534375000002,"end":229.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.29471875000002,"end":229.64909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.91909375,"end":231.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.18034375000002,"end":234.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.18409375000002,"end":238.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.03596875000002,"end":238.81221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.26784375000003,"end":241.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.83284375000002,"end":245.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.96721875000003,"end":246.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.86159375000003,"end":247.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.16096875000002,"end":249.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.00034375,"end":253.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.51846875,"end":256.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.88971875000001,"end":260.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.79659375,"end":259.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.02409375,"end":264.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.29346875000005,"end":264.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.34409375,"end":267.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.33096875,"end":269.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.77346875,"end":274.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.83596875,"end":278.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.78909375,"end":280.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.47659375,"end":282.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.36659375,"end":283.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.71659375,"end":284.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.28596875,"end":286.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.09159375,"end":288.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.94346875,"end":291.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.76596875,"end":292.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.23409375,"end":293.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.65596875,"end":302.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.46471875000003,"end":309.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.22721875,"end":311.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.83034375,"end":313.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.02409375,"end":316.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.53846875,"end":317.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.19659375000003,"end":319.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.79534375000003,"end":322.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.35596875000005,"end":326.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.69721875000005,"end":328.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.51534375,"end":332.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.99159375000005,"end":334.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.35409375,"end":339.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.58534375000005,"end":346.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.50409375000004,"end":350.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.62596875,"end":353.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.79846875000004,"end":355.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.72221875,"end":361.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.32471875000005,"end":363.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.72096875,"end":364.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.85159375,"end":371.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.78721875,"end":374.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.97659375,"end":375.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.98471875,"end":377.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.26721875000004,"end":380.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.97971875,"end":398.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.31471875000005,"end":404.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.54159375,"end":404.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.09846875000005,"end":407.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.01784375000005,"end":408.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.28346875000005,"end":410.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.13971875000004,"end":411.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.75971875000005,"end":413.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.07596875,"end":415.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.06721875000005,"end":417.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.17659375000005,"end":419.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.53909375,"end":421.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.97346875000005,"end":424.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.48784375,"end":425.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.25971875000005,"end":428.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.55034375,"end":430.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.58784375000005,"end":434.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.20784375000005,"end":434.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.95034375,"end":436.67159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.16096875000005,"end":439.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.43471875,"end":441.76784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.24034375,"end":443.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.11346875000004,"end":446.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.06221875000006,"end":458.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.05284375,"end":454.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.26346875,"end":462.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.26659375,"end":466.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.64159375,"end":468.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.85221875,"end":469.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.40471875000003,"end":474.67409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.09596875000005,"end":475.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.05784375,"end":477.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.08284375000005,"end":479.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.02346875,"end":482.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.21721875000003,"end":482.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.92596875000004,"end":486.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.14096875,"end":484.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.55409375000005,"end":488.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.42721875,"end":491.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.42659375000005,"end":493.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.92846875000004,"end":494.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.94096875,"end":496.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.54409375000006,"end":498.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.65346875000006,"end":499.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.91471875,"end":501.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.74159375000005,"end":503.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.24346875000003,"end":503.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.55971875000006,"end":504.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.18409375000005,"end":507.05721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.65596875000006,"end":511.34346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.63034375,"end":511.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.2040937500001,"end":514.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.9040937500001,"end":517.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.33409375,"end":518.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.2409687500001,"end":521.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.43034375,"end":522.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.4809687500001,"end":523.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.3078437500001,"end":524.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.06284375,"end":527.2903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.87659375,"end":529.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.2309687500001,"end":530.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.7834687500001,"end":533.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.68596875,"end":537.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.71471875,"end":539.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.59221875,"end":544.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.33409375,"end":548.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.0422187500001,"end":552.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.5478437500001,"end":556.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.87221875,"end":556.9228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.9734687499999,"end":557.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.29409375,"end":560.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.76596875,"end":562.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.06534375,"end":563.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.9765937500001,"end":564.1453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.5503437500001,"end":567.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.8915937500001,"end":571.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.19471875,"end":575.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.55284375,"end":576.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.37534375,"end":583.5515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.3953437499999,"end":587.7703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.8715937500001,"end":591.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.8203437500001,"end":602.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.7222187500001,"end":606.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.49721875,"end":608.1215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.4422187499999,"end":609.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.2647187499999,"end":611.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.7834687500001,"end":614.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.3147187500001,"end":615.7490937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.79971875,"end":617.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.88784375,"end":619.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":620.28846875,"end":621.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.8915937500001,"end":624.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":621.9084687500001,"end":624.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.1484687500001,"end":626.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.09346875,"end":626.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.1103437500001,"end":626.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.2409687500001,"end":640.97721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.229,"end":4.79,"text":"有請邱主委有請邱主委"},{"start":28.527,"end":53.894,"text":"各位好主委好謝謝主委的關心特別來今天跟您做一個質詢請教這個議題標題寫得很清楚我想請教一下請問主委目前在台灣有多少中配我強調一下當然我是用中配因為我們在地方我們稱中國配您可能是陸委問你要叫陸配沒關係就用你的方式在台灣有多少中配人數基本上我們台灣大概新住民總加起來的新住民大概60萬"},{"start":55.154,"end":56.555,"text":"中間大概有12萬其實沒有住在台灣"},{"start":71.561,"end":96.142,"text":"他通常是台幹的配偶或是執行的他們就大部分長期住在大陸就像我的帳目上有32萬但是有長期定居在中國境內的大概是12萬多那大概有24萬多在台灣那請問一下那這當中有多少是擁有台灣的戶籍那有多少他只是持續長期居留"},{"start":96.542,"end":111.641,"text":"那大概有14萬的人呢已經拿到我們的定居身份證了那另外有10萬的人大概在三個不同的階段可能來這邊先來說團聚、移清居留或長期居留所以14萬是長期居留那有10萬"},{"start":114.126,"end":137.384,"text":"14萬已經拿到定居了那14萬裡面有14萬已經定居了你的定居跟我的長期居留我怕混淆因為這兩個不一樣長期居留是定居的前身那定居是取得戶籍嘛定居才取得戶籍我是用取得戶籍我的取得戶籍就是你的定居我說的長期居留就是沒有取得戶籍是不是這樣"},{"start":138.739,"end":140.762,"text":"請問目前你知道台灣有多少外配嗎?"},{"start":154.03,"end":157.351,"text":"中國籍以外的外配當中有多少是有戶籍又有多少是屬於長期居留"},{"start":174.437,"end":196.809,"text":"有14萬是有戶籍有6萬8千人是屬於長期居留主委你非常清楚什麼是有戶籍什麼是長期居留我也清楚那接下來我要再問外配跟中配他入籍的流程你看看對不對外配他要入籍"},{"start":198.69,"end":224.044,"text":"他可以先不入籍他可以取得長期居留對不對要5年嘛是不是這樣子好那取得國籍是3年但是取得國籍呢他不見得能夠做定居還要取得戶籍才能定居對不對所以長期居留對外面來講是一個選項他如果要定居就要設法先取得國籍再來取得戶籍是不是這樣"},{"start":224.964,"end":252.397,"text":"很清楚啦齁我沒有誤解吧好但是對鍾佩來講呢他可以長期居留要多久要選擇長期居留要多久才能長期居留對啦我想委員你這個表應該很清楚可以看就要4年嘛但是他如果要取得戶籍他沒有取得國籍的問題所以在2年他就可以取得戶籍了就可以定居了定居就是取得戶籍可以定居那請教一下那鍾佩來台定居會比較嚴格嗎"},{"start":255.658,"end":256.759,"text":"為什麼這些人選擇保留原籍沒有來入籍"},{"start":275.885,"end":288.067,"text":"你覺得比如說我在我常常飛越南我在飛越南的時候遇到越籍的外配他來台灣嘛帶著小孩坐飛機回越南那我就很好奇我發現說"},{"start":289.983,"end":310.297,"text":"你怎麼不是拿台灣護照你拿越南護照因為我知道他如果要台灣取得台灣的國籍他就要放棄越南的國籍他就不能拿越南護照了他是拿台灣護照我說你怎麼來台灣多久了孩子這麼大了你怎麼沒有取得台灣的國籍跟戶籍拿台灣的護照他說"},{"start":311.915,"end":339.415,"text":"我又常常要回娘家啊我拿越南護照比較方便啊是不是這樣而且呢我這個孩子在台灣生的啊我孩子台灣一尊爸爸是台灣人他本來就有台灣的國籍但是我帶他去越南我拿越南話帶他去越南我可以幫他辦越南的國籍而且他未來如果有機會在越南念書也可以在台灣念書也可以兩邊都可以你覺得這個越南媽媽他的這樣的做法是不是很多外配的原因"},{"start":340.99,"end":346.316,"text":"我想一定是之一是嘛 是之一嘛就要告訴大家很多外派要選擇長期拘留"},{"start":347.54,"end":375.581,"text":"不選擇入國籍或取得戶籍是因為他想要保留原國的國籍保留原國的護照甚至他的孩子已經取得台灣國籍的情況下他覺得帶孩子回母國還蠻方便的這是很多外配的心聲你同意嗎同意嗎那請問一下他沒有取得台灣的戶籍跟國籍之前他如果已經在台灣長期居留了跟他取得戶籍有哪些待遇上的差別他有沒有健保"},{"start":377.042,"end":379.849,"text":"有健保嘛那差一張身份證差什麼"},{"start":382.005,"end":382.045,"text":"中佩"},{"start":412.833,"end":430.604,"text":"是不是也是這樣?這些選擇長期拘留沒有入籍台灣的中輩,是不是也是這種考量?就跟岳配一樣嘛,我要帶孩子回上海,我要帶孩子回北京,欸你要知道啊,中國的一線城市的戶籍放棄了,要再取得容易不容易?"},{"start":432.702,"end":446.055,"text":"小小的是說我知道因為在中國不同的省份你偏僻的省份你要到畢業一線城市其實你要取得戶籍很難他如果結婚來到台灣你要取得台灣的身份證要放棄哪裡的戶籍"},{"start":448.157,"end":462.346,"text":"所以我想你很清楚啦這個就是很多的複雜的東西齁外界不一定那麼清楚啦是那你一掀開大家就變成不得不在外面做一些問題所以我要說的是說其實這個議題很特別我問過很多外配很多中配"},{"start":463.286,"end":491.172,"text":"他們其實很多覺得說因為個人的生活選擇他為了子女他選擇他選擇長期居留他們要入台灣的國籍或者他們要入台灣的戶籍他沒有要在台灣有定居但是他的權益有沒有受損在台灣一樣有健保對不對但是中配不一樣生活工作都OK社會福利都差不多但是你要看一看非本國籍被學生的規定但是外配要來台灣入籍要怎樣要放棄國籍對不對"},{"start":492.472,"end":521.389,"text":"中配要不要?沒有嘛那規劃測試 外配要規劃到台灣有國籍 要不要測試?要不要?你所指的那這麼要嘛中配要不要?不用那你覺得中配來台定居比較嚴格嗎?好往下看 因為時間快到了來 中配的待遇呢高於外配啦 為什麼?因為外配的父母子女可以來依親 中配可不可以?沒有 說錯了 外配不可以 中配可不可以?"},{"start":523.568,"end":537.595,"text":"建保的負擔 外配的父母來台灣可以有健保嗎沒有 中配呢 不知道看居留時間所以只有中配可以讓他的直系血清來移清往下看"},{"start":540.19,"end":555.422,"text":"那我現在說那外配的配偶規劃要測試除了社長有三個選擇嘛要不就選擇就學一年要不就選擇參加課程要不然就通過測試你覺得外配通過這個方式取得台灣的入籍合不合理那你覺得中配比賽外配是不是要通過規劃測試"},{"start":572.277,"end":589.79,"text":"中配入籍後優於外配的待遇我們社會希望檢討因為現在顯然社會認為說外配的待遇比較好其實相反啊中配比較好啊那檢討啊可不可以檢討一下不要一個國家兩個待遇嘛中配跟外配待遇不一樣嘛中配是你管的嘛可不可以考慮一下檢討考慮檢討"},{"start":592.394,"end":613.662,"text":"我想政府院長已經通過了他講過了他希望能夠社會多溝通多溝通盡量一樣對不對好盡量一樣第二個那我就要求中配入籍可不可以比照外配通過考試可不可以評估評估一下好不好因為這是公平的問題嘛我遇到了越南媽媽跟遇到了中國媽媽為什麼越南媽媽來台灣入籍要經過測試中國媽媽不用"},{"start":618.922,"end":619.442,"text":"鍾佳濱主席鍾佳濱主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}