{"error":false,"id":["149575"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149575,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149575","日期":"2024-03-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-07T12:03:31+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-07T12:11:37+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:06","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbeeb6061b2fbd3e300f84c29b94b9165f0f8ba9b0039caa7a62adc72964e9d38b55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"12:03:31 - 12:11:37","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理(含各轉投資事業機構公股代表之董、監事)列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月4日及7日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":928,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時3分）主席、各位委員。有請部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：也請國產署署長。"],["主席：請曾署長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長辛苦了。首先要謝謝財政部還有國產署，針對本席在109年3月24號開始協調、質詢，針對原住民承租國有土地申請原住民保留地，在經過申請、核定，然後要緩收、免收、退還租金的這個部分，經歷了非常長的時間，終於由國產署辛苦地完成修正，財政部也在112年 10月4日修正發布國有非公用不動產出租管理辦法第28條，然後開始執行。國產署花蓮辦事處和臺東辦事處非常辛苦，辦了很多場的說明會，本席也儘可能去參加，去瞭解我們公部門和我們民眾的一些意見。","一開始你們希望提供所有的收據，就是過去繳稅的收據，這部分因為已經辦了好幾場，在這段時間已經退還的租金到底有多少，請提供書面資料。就我所知道的，只有一個八十幾歲的老太太將全部收據都留著，我所見到的是這樣，事實上這也很難啦，大家都一樣，不會一直把收據留存啦，所以我也開過協調會，請國產署看看要怎麼樣去解決這個問題。因為我是老公務員，也瞭解到電腦化是後來才有的，所以在電腦化之前的資料就有它的困難，但也不是不能解決，只是要花時間，這必須要部長能夠支持國產署，增加一些不是長期的人力，就只是這段時間的一些臨時人力給他們，這是我自己從公務員的角度來考量的這個部分，也就是把過去這些，最起碼要有租約、土地地號，從這個地號去查歷年的公告現值，就可以換算他的租金，然後怎麼樣去有效地退還。現職的公務員本來工作就很忙了，還要去做這個工作，我看了也是不太忍心，但是又不得不做，主要就是花蓮、臺東的辦事處，請教部長、署長可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員反映民眾的心聲，這個部分前面的辦法修了，後面的執行方式也訂了，最後就是在執行的時候，讓民眾可以更快速地拿到退還的租金。針對這個部分，國產署已經在研議一個方式，我是不是請署長來做一個便民的說明？"],["曾署長國基：報告委員，剛剛委員提到過有很多人可能收據都不見了，上一次也在委員那邊協調，就是由我們國產署現有的資料庫裡面，雖然有些租約可能都換約過了，我們會用追溯的方式，比如從現在的租約資料裡面可以調出來的，或是他上一次的租約資料也可以調出來，從這個租約裡面，就如剛剛委員講的，按照我們當時計收的一個標準是用公告地價，而每一年的公告地價的資料也都存在，我們會來核算，我想就以這個簡便、便民的方式。說實在話，有些要他拿10年、20年的資料，可能有他的困難性，我們就用既有的這些資料來核算；核算的結果，我們會通知這個申請人，對這樣的核算、計價結果是不是同意，如果同意，就作為退還的一個標準。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，非常謝謝。剛才提到人力的部分，如果真的有不足，還是要提供啦。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝，也請委員支持。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：另外，就是請你們定期，不用每個月，半年能夠提供一下辦理的情形。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，我們是不是把每一季的成果提供給委員。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：另外，很重要的就是緩收、免收的部分，其實最主要就是第一線的鄉鎮公所人員，要請他們協助，跟國產署辦事處那邊主動協助。主動協助跟國產署辦事處那邊，因為民眾不清楚，可能有些是新收的案件之類，這個部分的協調。"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["鄭天財Sra kacaw委員：另外，關於退輔會的部分，我已經質詢過很多次了，部長、署長，其實我沒有求得很多，只要限收，我們就先限收好了，先限收原住民申請原住民保留地的案件，就先限收這個部分。屬於退輔會管理的部分，但是是原住民在使用，符合增劃編原住民保留地的條件者，先處理這個部分，這樣就很少了。你要請財政部國產署與原民會、退輔會討論，因為它確實是違反了國產法第三十九條的這三款，但是我們限收，不然就太大了。"],["主席：鄭委員，能否請曾署長會後再向你做進一步的補充說明？"],["鄭天財Sra kacaw委員：因為這個質詢過了，我們現在只要將這個限收，可以吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢。","接著請羅廷瑋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":378,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-2","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","王世堅","王鴻薇","賴惠員","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra 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素面資料那我所知道的只有一個80幾歲的老太太"},{"start":167.162,"end":181.071,"text":"他全部的收據都留著只有一個我所見到的是這樣其他的事實上這很難大家也是一樣不會一直把收據留存所以我也開過協調會請國產署"},{"start":184.639,"end":184.779,"text":"國產署 國產部長"},{"start":209.916,"end":221.011,"text":"提供一些不是長期的人力,階段時間的一些臨時的人力給他們。這是我自己從公務員的角度來去考量這個部分。"},{"start":222.433,"end":241.924,"text":"就是把這些過去因為租約啦最起碼租約租約有土地地號嘛然後這個從這個地號然後歷年的公告限值就可以換算他的租金所以然後怎麼樣去有效的退還就不會讓這個"},{"start":245.301,"end":261.258,"text":"現職現在的公務員他本來工作就很忙了還要去做這個我看了也是不太忍心但是一不得不做所以這個部分這個給部長還有署長因為主要就是花蓮台東的辦事處了這個部分可以嗎"},{"start":262.729,"end":280.145,"text":"謝謝委員反映民眾的心聲我想這個部分前面的辦法修了後面的執行方式也定了最後就是在執行的時候讓民眾可以更快速的拿到退還的租金我想這個部分國產署已經在研議一個方式我是不是請署長來做一個辨明的說明好"},{"start":283.439,"end":298.713,"text":"報告委員剛剛委員提到過有很多人可能收據都不見了那上一次也在委員那邊協調就是由我們國產署現有的資料庫裡面包括過雖然有些租約可能都換約過了但我們會用追溯的"},{"start":299.153,"end":299.714,"text":"委員會提供財政委員會財政委員會"},{"start":314.774,"end":341.636,"text":"在每一年的公告計價的資料也都存在那我們會來核算我想以這個簡便辨明的方式說實在的有些要他拿10年20年的資料可能有他的困難性那我們就用既有的這些資料來核算那核算的結果我們會通知這個申請人到底對這樣的核算的這個計價的結果是不是同意如果同意就作為一個退還的一個標準"},{"start":342.469,"end":351.386,"text":"好,非常謝謝。這個剛才能力的部分如果車輪有不足還是要提供好,謝謝,也請委員支持另外就是說這個"},{"start":353.479,"end":373.56,"text":"您們定期不要說每年不用每個月半年能夠提供一下這個辦理的情形好我們把那個成果是不是每一季提供給委員把我們的成果對另外就是說很重要的就是有關緩收、免收的部分就是要"},{"start":375.857,"end":403.413,"text":"這主要就是其實是要讓這個鄉鎮公所第一線的鄉鎮公所的人員要請他們協助主動協助跟國產署辦事處那邊因為民眾不清楚然後有的新說的案件之類的這個部分的協調那另外這個我已經執行過很多次了這個退伍會的部分我們好像有簽過跟大家沒幾次嘛"},{"start":403.993,"end":430.394,"text":"部長、署長其實我沒有求的很多我只要限收我們就先限收好了先限收原住民申請原住民保留地的案件就先限收在這邊就是說屬於退伍會管理的"},{"start":431.437,"end":453.967,"text":"所屬於退府會管理的部分但是是原住民在使用它符合真化邊原住民保留地的條件的先處理這個部分就很少了所以你要請財政部國常署跟延民會還有退府會"},{"start":456.094,"end":457.915,"text":"謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢。接著我們請羅廷惟委員質詢。"},{"start":485.746,"end":485.767,"text":"好!謝謝!"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}