{"error":false,"id":["149605"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149605,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149605","日期":"2024-03-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第4次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-08T15:01:22+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-08T15:17:14+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7383c0ce4a703cc2cf9dfc5de613682d230da91660cc9cbf8ba9b0039caa7a6f20f527d60d7d4815ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"15:01:22 - 15:17:14","會議時間":"2024-03-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n三、3月12日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":320,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（15時1分）院長、各位大家午安。是不是請我們陳建仁院長？"],["主席：麻煩再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：林委員午安。"],["林委員淑芬：陳院長午安。"],["陳院長建仁：恭喜你當選連任，還有婦女節快樂！"],["林委員淑芬：謝謝，大家一起快樂。","我今天有點不太快樂是因為我其實這陣子滿忙的，我們家是經常煮飯的，我自己週末也經常煮，我很喜歡煮咖哩，因為它煮了一鍋，大家可以吃一整天，對職業婦女來講，它很方便，我就想該不會我也中標了吧？然後我因為很忙嘛，所以沒時間去看，在今天早上要出門的時候，終於拿出來看，發現的確我的咖哩粉是濟生公司的，就是整個案件一起頭的那一個。"],["陳院長建仁：那不能吃了。"],["林委員淑芬：但是很不幸的，我要去我買的超市換貨也不能退，而且我的那一批貨的到期日不在不合法的公告名單裡面，但我今天要再跟你講這個，是因為作為一個家庭主婦、作為一個食安的關心的人，其實我們真的很在乎，可是我們更在乎，因為我們知道食品的產業很寬、很廣、很多，很難一一管得齊全，可是我們唯一要求是，至少出問題了，政府要好好的管吧！"],["陳院長建仁：確實。"],["林委員淑芬：這個這麼卑微的需求，至少出問題了，要好好的管。可是今天我們看到業者非常膽大包天，在哪裡，你知道嗎？部長在這裡，部長當時跟大家報告，我們的邊境查驗從10%，一路走到20%、30%、50%，到去年12月11日以後，邊境的查驗是100%的查驗了，可是我們從衛福部的網頁裡面看到了，即便是100%查驗，這業者還可以在今年1月6日，就是你宣布100%查驗的時候，他在今年仍然進口了這一張單是1萬3,696公斤；1月28日仍然進口了9,000公斤；一樣是1月6日，仍然進口了1萬5,000公斤，這是同一群業者。我的意思是，我們都要100%查了，他還不怕，仍然進口了4萬公斤含有蘇丹紅的辣椒粉，所以這個業者簡直是膽大包天、囂張至極嘛！我們後來又查到這個業者，他在我們的登錄溯源系統，因為我們都講不會再有系統性的風險了，因為我們有溯源追蹤系統，這個事件告訴我們在溯源追蹤系統裡，他都胡亂登錄，他登錄上游跟誰買的，你知道嗎？我們食藥署也很認真地禁止了這家廠商不准再賣到臺灣來，可是它禁止的是一家船務公司叫 Kevin Shipping，它禁止了一家不是食品廠商而是 Kevin Shipping，它不是食品公司，事實上他們是船務公司，而我們政府禁止了船務公司，可是他真正的供貨商是誰呢？是這裡，我們這9家，我們先看這一頁，你看這一頁都是同一個集團，他們說他們是親戚，你會相信263號1樓和2樓，他是在透天厝同一棟房子裡面。透天厝登記了5家公司；265也是透天厝，都是住宅、民宅啦！裡面登記了3家公司；他們文龍東路同一個負責人，還有另外一個他們還有工廠也在文龍東路，但是是31號，我查出來的；他們有一家人頭公司叫做龍海同記，院長看得到嗎？龍海同記。","我們到中國的公司登記網去看，龍海同記負責人一模一樣，跟剛才高雄的那9家名單，登記龍海同記的負責人一模一樣，成立日期1997，營業範圍：加工、蔬菜水果加工，我的意思是說，我們海關邊境是我們源頭管理的最核心。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["林委員淑芬：第一個，他隨便登登，第二個他登載不實，登載了船運公司，我們禁止船運公司不能夠再輸入東西進來，可是他真正輸入到臺灣來的，不是Kevin Shipping啊！是叫做龍海同記、叫EASTRONG，EASTRONG其實你們也有查到，所以這是一個非常大的破口。","這個制度絕對要從源頭改進，我們有登，還要登載不實抓到才……現在你抓到他了，叫他供出上游是誰，供不齊全，叫他供出下游流向，我的那一瓶胡椒粉不在他們下游流向之列。下游流向、批號也都對不起來，所以這是一個好機會，我們絕對要澈底地革新，院長，給我們的源頭管理是一個真正有管理的源頭管理。這一種登載隨隨便便填一下，然後用人頭公司一次9家登記在同一個地址，這個問題很嚴重。"],["陳院長建仁：對，確實，我謝謝委員能夠查到這樣的情況。我想未來我們在整個登記的這個過程，還有廠商查驗的這個過程當中，一旦有該懲罰的部分，或者是要該改進的部分，我們一定要求他改進，這個實在是太嚴重……"],["林委員淑芬：你知道還有一個什麼問題嗎？他查驗了，你100%要查驗，查驗了4萬公斤有3批不合格，他不用付出成本，因為他只要退關，退出去中國給他們龍海同記再包裝一下，再重新用船運過來，再送也沒有關係，因為他沒有成本嘛！除了船運運費一項，其他他只要退關貨還在。以後食品如果是這樣子，被驗出摻有不合格添加物，雖然你們許輔在那裡，我是聽不下去。"],["陳院長建仁：不准出口。"],["林委員淑芬：你們吳秀梅講的，我也聽不下去。吳秀梅說3A致癌物質又不是一定致癌，但我們聽不下去。"],["陳院長建仁：這不對。"],["林委員淑芬：好，沒關係，如果有這種狀況，一律銷毀，不准退關，他才會怕。做錯事情的業者，然後被人家抓到，不用付出代價，沒白花錢、沒賠錢，沒有成本，下次敢再犯，而且原貨退出關，在公海上繞一圈馬上又進來。你看，又進來！這個就是事實擺在眼前，所以一定要銷毀，一定要叫他們不敢再這樣子做。"],["陳院長建仁：回去要懲罰。"],["林委員淑芬：好，謝謝。其實我今天有一個很重要的議題要討論，院長，你看臺北盆地，三重、蘆洲幾乎是一個島嶼，大家可能不知道三重、蘆洲是一個完整的島嶼，它的東側被淡水河包覆，西側是被疏洪道包覆。所以三重、蘆洲是一個島，那我們蘆洲是在島的最內側，所以蘆洲人要出蘆洲，大概要經過三重去聯外，或者是要經過橋梁才能聯外，而現在蘆洲人聯外所有道路的服務水準，我不曉得你知不知道A、B、C、D、E、F，它是最差的F等級的道路服務水準，如果有G、H、I的話，它應該在更後面。","但是我現在要講的不是單純現況這麼糟而已，因為行政院在111年8月核定了淡北道路的工程，但是你們卻突然跑出一個議題，是我們非常措手不及的，我一定要代表蘆洲人在這裡表示我們非常的錯愕！因為你們行政院要求新北市政府要去規劃關渡新橋，這個新橋是作為淡北道路施作的配套方案，目的是要做什麼？為什麼要馬上做這個關渡新橋呢？因為淡北道路通車以後，會讓大度路的車流增加，所以為了紓解大度路的車流，關渡新橋要把它導到我們五股、蘆洲這裡的103縣道，這個103縣道經過八里龍米路、五股的疏洪北路、成泰路等等，我要告訴你，這裡的服務水準現況是F級水準，而且是大塞車。他們本來想這裡的道路服務水準會提升、會變好，因為大家要去北海岸都要經過我們103縣道，淡江大橋通車以後會紓解，根據淡江大橋及其連絡道路建設核定本的推估，到時候如果淡江大橋通車，我們F級的服務水準會提升到B級，也就是往北1個小時大概3,835輛的車會下降到1,922輛，將近2,000輛，但是我們也看到，如果關渡新橋將大度路的車流引到103號縣道這個市區道路來，我們的服務水準會變成C到D，又會變很差，大概往南的部分1小時的車流量會從1,900變成2,300到2,800，所以他們預計1個小時要引進將近381到889輛，1個小時要增加將近900輛的車子進來，到時候我們的道路服務水準又會變成D，我要說這個是以鄰為壑！你要紓解臺北市大度路的車潮，你要讓我們五股人、新北人變成二等公民嗎？我們在地已經飽受塞車之苦，好不容易期待淡江大橋通車以後我們要舒緩一下、喘息一下，結果你看我們還要去負責幫臺北市的大度路紓解，我們還要繼續塞，這不公平！","院長，但是有方案，本來我們就一個方案，你看這個方案，關渡新橋其實是有一個方案，它本來還預計要打通觀音山隧道，直接穿越觀音山銜接64，如果你關渡新橋的施作可以和這個穿越觀音山的隧道同時進行，不要分階段，你才不會讓我們再飽受這種塞車之苦啊！所以我們在講，你們來跟我們說，我們未來要開闢這個隧道連接64，可是我們不要講第二階段，因為你們談的是下一階段，你們要先開橋，下一階段才要開隧道，我們不能接受！你只開橋，把我們當成第二階段，第二階段遙遙無期不打緊，只開橋，我們103號縣道又要塞得很嚴重！所以你們在淡北道路的核定版本又講開這個橋18億全部都補助，可是重點不是你們補助，你們還要求淡北道路跟關渡新橋要同時完工，我們也沒有辦法接受，你們同時完工，沒有搭配穿越觀音山的隧道，以鄰為壑啦！真的是太欺負我們了，老實說。"],["陳院長建仁：聽委員這樣的分析，我是覺得關渡新橋的興建確實是要通盤的來考慮，這個部分在可行性研究這樣的區塊裡面，一定要把您的訴求納入這一個可行性的考量當中。"],["林委員淑芬：部長，你有沒有要講的？"],["王部長國材：的確，淡北道路當時因為在北投的地方有談到會把車流帶進來，所以有這個方案。"],["林委員淑芬：所以北投人比較大，我們蘆洲人、五股人比較小？"],["王部長國材：關渡新橋跟接64，我們現在請新北市政府再做一個可行性評估。"],["林委員淑芬：沒有，你們只做關渡新橋的評估，沒有64隧道。"],["王部長國材：有，有64的評估。"],["林委員淑芬：那你們不是同一階段，因為你們告訴我們說，這個沒關係，你們會叫他們去評估。可是你們其實私底下來溝通也有講，為什麼不能同時做？因為怕觀音山隧道穿越工程環評要拖很多時間，所以你們為了怕環評拖時間，不敢說同時、同階段要去進行，如果是這種狀況，111年到現在已經2年了……"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，115年的時候淡江大橋會完工，有很多也會跑到64上去，所以我是覺得這個到底未來要不要做，要看可行性的結果。"],["林委員淑芬：如果沒有64，未來64號道路的服務水準在淡江大橋完工以後也會飽和，64也會塞車，64更是我們五股和蘆洲非常重要的聯外道路，也會塞車，如果不能銜接，你的言下之意是可以把大度路的車潮引進來，我們不能再銜接到64嗎？"],["王部長國材：我們在可行性評估時跟新北市政府來妥善處理。"],["林委員淑芬：我現在在這裡跟你講，我們不能接受兩階段，然後沒有配套，直接就把往臺北市大度路的車潮引到我們這裡來，我們堅決的反對。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員淑芬的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第52號王委員育敏質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","黃健豪","沈發惠","柯志恩","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","王育敏","張宏陸","陳菁徽","羅美玲","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":24,"meetingDate":["2024-03-08"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00002","1130601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1130601_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.785343750000001,"end":6.257843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.01721875,"end":10.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.05034375,"end":12.585968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.80471875,"end":20.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.69909375,"end":18.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.75346875,"end":22.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.38596875,"end":34.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.15221875,"end":37.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.04221875,"end":36.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.22346875,"end":43.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.88971875,"end":40.024718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.024718750000005,"end":40.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.19346875,"end":40.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.737218750000004,"end":46.774718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.94346875,"end":55.094093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.17846875,"end":62.400968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.000343750000006,"end":62.367218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.400968750000004,"end":62.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.95784375,"end":67.83471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.57721875,"end":76.44096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.62659375,"end":76.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.11596875000001,"end":94.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.08784375,"end":112.09784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.92659375000001,"end":101.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.04284375,"end":113.93721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.26221875,"end":133.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.51221875000002,"end":156.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.05284375000002,"end":162.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.06034375000002,"end":170.14784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.75534375,"end":172.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.30784375000002,"end":173.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.60721875000002,"end":175.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.81346875,"end":183.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.08659375000002,"end":189.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.09409375,"end":201.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.29909375000003,"end":218.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.32159375,"end":223.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.94096875000002,"end":228.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.34534375,"end":234.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.79596875000001,"end":236.83784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.98534375000003,"end":239.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.44909375,"end":241.95096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.81159375000001,"end":245.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.59596875000003,"end":245.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.01784375000003,"end":248.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.41409375,"end":251.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.92409375000003,"end":252.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.01659375000003,"end":255.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.24409375,"end":259.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.27721875000003,"end":262.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.14596875,"end":272.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.17409375,"end":272.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.45659375,"end":276.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.65909375,"end":273.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.71346875,"end":284.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.50534375,"end":288.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.28534375000004,"end":297.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.33034375,"end":303.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.83159375,"end":305.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.56534375,"end":310.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.76721875000004,"end":325.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.65096875,"end":326.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.79846875000004,"end":330.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.30846875000003,"end":332.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.44721875000005,"end":334.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.38784375,"end":337.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.81346875,"end":341.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.10409375,"end":358.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.63721875000005,"end":363.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.61971875,"end":367.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.09159375,"end":368.78346875},{"speaker":"SPE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Shipping。它禁止了一家不是食品廠商是Kevin Shipping。它不是食品公司,它是他們的船務公司。"},{"start":229.4,"end":254.736,"text":"而我們政府禁止了船務公司可是他真正的供貨商是誰呢是這裡我們這九家我們先看這一頁你看這一頁都是同一個集團他們說他們是親戚你會相信2631號1號一樓和二樓他是透天厝同一棟房子裡面透天厝喔登記了五家公司"},{"start":256.317,"end":279.247,"text":"二、六、五也是偷天錯,都是住宅、民宅啊。 裡面登記了三家公司。他們文龍東路同一個負責人,還有另外一個。 他們還有工廠,也在文龍東路,但是是31號。 我查出來的。 好。 他們有一家人頭公司叫做龍海統計。 院長看得到嗎?"},{"start":279.247,"end":284.309,"text":"龍海統計。 好,我們看一下。 我們到中國的公司登記網去看。"},{"start":285.938,"end":304.52,"text":"龍海統計負責人一模一樣跟剛才高雄的那9家名單登記龍海統計的負責人一模一樣成立日期1997他做了營業範圍加工蔬菜水果加工我的意思是說"},{"start":306.618,"end":332.557,"text":"我們海關邊境是我們源頭管理的最核心。第一個,他隨便登燈。第二個,他登載不實。登載了船運公司可是我們禁止掉了船運公司不能夠再輸入東西進來。可是他真正的輸入到台灣來的不是開分序品啊,是叫做龍海同濟叫eat strong,eat strong"},{"start":333.502,"end":358.562,"text":"其實你們也有查到,所以這個是一個非常大的破口。 這個制度絕對要從源頭改進。 我們有燈,然後要燈載不實,但是抓到才那個。 現在你抓到他了,叫他公出上游是誰,公布齊全。 叫他公出下游流向我的那一瓶胡椒粉不在他們下游流向之列。"},{"start":359.713,"end":383.601,"text":"下游流向批號也都對不起來所以這是一個好機會我們絕對要徹底的革新院長給我們一個源頭管理是一個真正的有管理的源頭管理然後這一種登載隨隨便便填一下然後用源頭公司一次9家登記在同一個地址"},{"start":385.598,"end":394.463,"text":"這個問題很嚴重對確實我謝謝委員能夠查到這樣的情況我想未來我們在整個登記的這個過程還有呢這個廠商的這個查驗的這個過程當中一旦有"},{"start":403.077,"end":417.228,"text":"你知道還有一個什麼問題嗎?他查驗了你百分之一百要查驗他查驗四萬公斤三批不合格他不用付出成本"},{"start":417.788,"end":442.916,"text":"因為他只要退官退出去中國再給他們龍海銅器再包裝一下再重新再傳運再過來再送也沒有關係因為他沒有成本嘛除了傳運運費一下其他他只要退官貨還在以後食品如果是這樣子被驗出參有雖然你們許甫在那裡我是聽不下去你們吳秀美講的我也聽不下去吳秀美說"},{"start":444.076,"end":470.254,"text":"三A致癌物質又不是一定致癌,但我們停不下去。好,沒關係,如果有這種狀況,一律銷毀,不准退官。他才會怕,這不就是事的嚴重。若叫人抓到,要保證大家沒了一枚筆記。沒有成本,下次敢再犯。而且原貨退出關,在公海上繞一圈,馬上又進來。你看,又進來。"},{"start":471.978,"end":496.705,"text":"這個就是事實擺在眼前,所以一定要銷毀,一定要叫他們不敢再這樣子做。我今天有一個很重要的議題要討論。院長,因為我們三重蘆洲,你看台北盆地,三重蘆洲幾乎是一個島嶼。大家可能不知道,三重蘆洲是一個完整的島嶼。"},{"start":497.685,"end":526.281,"text":"他的東側被淡水河包覆西側是被疏洪道包覆所以三重、蘆洲是一個島那我們蘆洲是在島的最內側所以蘆洲人啊出要出蘆洲大概要經過三重然後去連外或者是要經過橋樑才能連外而現在蘆洲人的連外所有的道路服務水準就是我不曉得你知不知道ABCDE"},{"start":527.581,"end":546.646,"text":"他是最差的F等級的道路服務水準。如果有GHI的話他應該在更後面。但是呢我現在要講的不是單純現況這麼糟而已。因為呢行政院在111年的8月合訂了淡北道路的工程。"},{"start":547.694,"end":566.613,"text":"但是呢你們卻突然跑出一個議題是我們非常的措手不及我一定要代表盧卓人在這裡表示我們非常的錯愕因為呢你們行政院提出了一個新北市政府要求新北市政府要去規劃要新設關渡新橋"},{"start":568.811,"end":590.211,"text":"新橋要跟淡北道路銜接的配套是它是作為淡北道路施作的配套方案然後目的是要做什麼為什麼要馬上做這個關渡新橋呢因為要降低淡北道路通車以後車流會讓大渡路的車流增加所以為了紓解"},{"start":591.032,"end":613.406,"text":"大渡路的車流關渡新橋要把它疏解導到我們五谷蘆洲這裡叫做103縣道在這個103縣道經過八里龍米路五谷的蘇鴻北路成泰路等等我要告訴你這裡的服務水準現況現況現況是F級水準而且是大塞車"},{"start":617.912,"end":646.075,"text":"他們本來想說這裡的道路水準服務水準會提升會變好因為淡江大橋通車以後未來因為大家要去這個北海岸都要經過我們103縣道嘛通車以後會疏解所以根據呢淡江大橋集體聯絡道路建設核定本的推估到時候如果淡江大橋通車我們的F級的水準會服務水準會提升到B級"},{"start":647.472,"end":666.597,"text":"也就是呢往北一次大概3835輛一個小時的車會下降到1922輛將近2000輛但是呢我們也看到如果關渡新橋將大渡路的車流引到103號線道來這個市區道路來"},{"start":672.826,"end":687.321,"text":"我們的服務水準會變成稀到低,又會變很差。大概往南的部分會增加2300,它的那個一小時的車流量會從1900到會變成2300到"},{"start":691.426,"end":707.522,"text":"兩千八所以他們預計一個小時要引進將近381到889輛一個小時要增加將近900輛的車子進來到時候我們的大陸服務水準又會變成低不要說"},{"start":709.023,"end":737.071,"text":"這個是以零為禍。你要紓解台北市大渡路的車潮?你要讓我們五股人、新北人變成二等公民嗎?這個我們在地已經飽受塞車之苦,好不容期待淡江大橋通車以後我們要舒緩一下、喘息一下。結果你看我們,我們還要去負責幫台北市的大渡路紓解,我們還要繼續塞,這不公平。"},{"start":738.311,"end":765.899,"text":"但是院長有方案因為呢本來我們就一個方案你看這個方案關渡新橋他其實是有一個方案是因為他本來還預計要打通觀音山隧道直接穿越觀音山銜接64如果你關渡新橋的施作可以跟這個穿越觀音山的隧道同時進行不要分階段"},{"start":767.233,"end":787.032,"text":"你才不會讓我們再飽受這種塞車之苦啊。 所以我們在講說,你們來跟我們說我們未來會要開闢這個隧道連接64,可是我們不要講第二階段,因為你們談的是說下一階段你們要先開橋,下一階段才要開隧道,我們不能接受。"},{"start":787.372,"end":813.045,"text":"你只開橋把我們當成第二階段第二階段遙遙無期不打緊只開橋我們103號線道又要塞得很嚴重所以你們在合訂版本淡北道路合訂版本你們又講說開這個橋18億我們全部都補助可是重點不是你們補助你們還要求淡北道路跟關路新橋要同時完工"},{"start":814.125,"end":823.712,"text":"我們也沒有辦法接受你們同時完工沒有搭配穿越觀音山的隧道以臨為禍真的是太欺負我們了老實說"},{"start":825.219,"end":826.1,"text":"部長,您要不要要講的?"},{"start":846.038,"end":849.242,"text":"現在關渡新橋跟街64,我們現在請新北市政府再做一個可行性評估。"},{"start":865.66,"end":878.176,"text":"沒有,你們只做關渡新橋的評估,沒有六六四隧道。 有有有,有六六四的評估。那你們不是同一階段,因為你們告訴我們說,這個沒關係你們會叫他們去評估,可是你們其實私底下來溝通有講啦,為什麼不能同時做啦。"},{"start":880.859,"end":899.162,"text":"因為怕觀音山隧道穿越工程環評要拖很多時間所以你們為了環評拖時間所以不敢說同時同階段要去進行那如果在這種狀況已經講了111到現在才兩年了我跟委員報告115年的時候淡江大橋會完工"},{"start":900.043,"end":922.558,"text":"所以有很多也會跑到65上去,所以,欸64上去啦,所以我是覺得說這個做可行性,到底未來要不要做,要看可行性。那如果沒有64,你說64未來道路的服務水準也會飽和啦,當然江大橋完工以後也會飽和,64也會塞車,64更是我們五谷岸蘆洲人,連外道路非常重要,也會塞車。"},{"start":951.091,"end":951.131,"text":"臨時主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}