{"error":false,"id":["149610"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149610,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149610","日期":"2024-03-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第4次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-08T17:01:21+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-08T17:31:58+08:00","影片長度":"00:30:37","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7383c0ce4a703cc31b49eebd65d3c5fd230da91660cc9cbf8ba9b0039caa7a6edfb78fde1fab8a35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"17:01:21 - 17:31:58","會議時間":"2024-03-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n三、3月12日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":762,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（17時1分）院長好，本席想請行政院陳院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：徐委員午安，恭喜你當選立委，也祝你婦女節快樂。"],["徐委員欣瑩：謝謝。陳院長辛苦了，這麼長時間以來的總質詢，今天終於最後一個了，首先第一題……"],["陳院長建仁：接下來還有個人質詢。"],["徐委員欣瑩：喔，對、對、對！","首先第一題是送分題，就是您剛剛也講到了，今天是什麼節日？"],["陳院長建仁：國際婦女節。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，國際婦女節。本席想請教院長，我們現代婦女追求自我成長、經濟獨立，所以投入職場的婦女非常的多，也不亞於男性……"],["陳院長建仁：我們要感謝女性在……"],["徐委員欣瑩：謝謝，院長，我沒請你講話，請不要講喔！","想請教院長的是，您對於現在職場性別平等的推動滿意嗎？就只要回答滿意或不滿意。"],["陳院長建仁：有進步，但是還可以再加強。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，您也認為還可以再加強嘛！所以首先本席想就現在我們公部門跟私部門中女性在職場的平等，包含女性的升遷等各方面，還有擔任高階主管、中階主管及基層主管的情況。就我們的觀察，感覺公部門好像對女性是比較沒有壓抑的，女性的抬頭各方面都比較好，但是在私部門、私人企業的部分，對女性的歧視各方面，或是給女性的升遷管道好像還是比較弱，所以本席在這裡想要請教院長，你是否同意我們應該要鼓勵私部門的中、高階主管，包含基層的女性主管比例提升，您同意嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我當然同意，我覺得在公、私部門應該是每一個人都按照他的貢獻、按照他的能力來做相關的提升。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，那有關私部門的部分，您可不可以在一個月內提一些具體的，您既然認同，可否提出一些具體做法的報告給本席？"],["陳院長建仁：這個部分的話，我想……"],["徐委員欣瑩：提出報告，這邊不要浪費我的時間，因為您認同嘛，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：我請我們的性平處來處理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：您責成看哪一個單位，寫一份您也認同的性別平等的報告給本席。"],["陳院長建仁：一個簡單的報告啦。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，提報告給本席。","再來，現在有關育嬰留職津貼已經修法，男女雙方，也就是父母都可以申請了，但是申請的比例還是很少……"],["陳院長建仁：女性多。"],["徐委員欣瑩：您知道為什麼嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我不太清楚每一個家庭的狀況，但是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，不太清楚。"],["陳院長建仁：在臺灣的文化的情況下，可能都還認為是媽媽應該……"],["徐委員欣瑩：喔對，即便是媽媽申請的也還不多，原因就是育嬰留職津貼的這個……"],["陳院長建仁：八成薪。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在只有六折，六折薪。","太好了！您講出八折薪，所以那是不是……"],["陳院長建仁：已經八成了。"],["許部長銘春：八成了，兩成是我們公部門……"],["陳院長建仁：已經八成囉。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：公部門已經八成了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：公部門？"],["許部長銘春：私部門也是一樣，就是說六成是……"],["陳院長建仁：六成是私部門的企業付，兩成是政府。"],["許部長銘春：都是用我們的就保基金，另外公務預算還補兩成，去年我們從六成提升到八成。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：公部門，那私部門呢？"],["陳院長建仁：都一樣啊。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：都一樣，都八成。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在都有八成薪？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那本席想請教，為什麼2022年我們的預算是47億，2023年（去年）的預算是33億，到2024年（今年）也是30幾億，既然你之前可以提到47億，現在如果已經到八成，那是不是可以再提高呢？"],["許部長銘春：委員容我說明一下，因為那一年我們是先預估，因為那一年先預估，然後後來……"],["徐委員欣瑩：後來發現是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：對，然後實際隔年……"],["徐委員欣瑩：預估既然可以……"],["許部長銘春：因為我們是先行，我們先做，那時候法還沒有通過，但是我們先做，我們用那個辦法先補，所以那時候有抓寬一點。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，既然可以抓寬一點，所以是不是……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我跟你報告，這個經費第一年因為我們有很大的期望，所以編得比較多，可是發現來申請的人不多……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我知道，我瞭解。既然可以這樣的話，因為現在臺灣少子化的問題，我相信院長還有大家都知道，既然生了，我們當然是讓父母能夠安心的養孩子，很多人沒有申請的原因就是畢竟這個薪資還是打折，他也怕薪水不夠，養家不易，所以是不是可以想辦法再提高？有沒有可能我們的育嬰留職津貼能夠再提高？"],["陳院長建仁：我想八成薪是已經相當……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們就提高到47億元。"],["陳院長建仁：在世界上的狀況來說已經算是相當好了。我想現在的問題除了薪資的保障以外，育兒津貼的保障也是很重要，所以……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我知道、我知道，好，OK。"],["陳院長建仁：這兩邊都要平衡。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝。","再來，本席想請教院長，陽光、空氣、水是我們生命的三要素，現在在我們臺灣卻有將近100萬人缺了這三樣中的一項，他現在都還沒有辦法有，您知道是哪一項嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我覺得……"],["徐委員欣瑩：都有了？"],["陳院長建仁：都有耶！就是品質好不好的問題，不是有沒有的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那哪一項的品質比較不好？"],["陳院長建仁：我們有一些鄉鎮有空氣的污染，水的供應的話，確實在原住民的偏鄉的地區，這個水的供應可能需要改善，陽光的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，OK，謝謝。院長說得非常好。我們現在全臺灣還有四、五十萬戶沒有自來水，院長，您可以想像沒有自來水的情況嗎？像您今天穿的白襯衫，如果我們這些偏鄉地區的民眾穿著白襯衫，在沒有自來水的情況下，他用他家的水洗衣服，最後會變黃襯衫。還有，我們平常喝水覺得很自然，都很健康，但是現在還有四十幾萬戶，應該有超過100萬人沒有自來水。已經是民國113年了……"],["陳院長建仁：那是在偏鄉。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在已經民國113年，民生必需的自來水是不是我們應該要用專案來加速讓他們可以擁有自來水？"],["王部長美花：對於偏遠地區沒有自來水這個部分，幾年前開始確實就有一個專案來處理這個事情，這個專案今年結束之後，我們也會提案讓未來再有新的方案持續來支持。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝，謝謝部長。我也看到過去8年，民進黨執政這8年整個未接自來水的補助款，我們發現屏東縣特別多，這8年來給了58億。屏東有兩席立委，所以人口數跟我們新竹縣差不多，我們也有兩席立委。"],["王部長美花：屏東是因為他原來的自來水的占比太低了……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒關係，我沒有請您回答。部長，請暫停。","我們新竹縣這8年只拿了6.8億，一個58億，一個6.8億，剛剛部長也有講，接下來的8年要再為無自來水地區來爭取，那我們希望能夠整體來看，而且要加速，因為這些人也是中華民國的國民，而且他們也同樣都盡各種權利義務，但是為什麼他們沒有自來水喝？這一點我們請院長、部長這邊能夠來加強，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：是不是讓我們的部長簡單的回復一下，好不好？他們是有計畫，不是沒有計畫。"],["王部長美花：是，因為在偏遠地區……"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為本席的時間有限，就是說未來我們能夠加速……"],["王部長美花：有，我們會持續來支持，會再提專案。"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為這個東西的急迫性就是自來水，尤其現在其實你說還可以喝溪水或者是河水的，真的，沒有像自來水這樣經過過濾、淨化的品質，喝了都不健康，所以很多民眾真的是非常迫切需要，所以我們希望在未來能夠儘快、能夠加速，也就是說讓這些人儘早有自來水。關於這個部分，部長、院長提出來，我們一定全力支持，但是不要大小眼，每個縣市都能夠……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我簡單的講一下，屏東是原來的人都不用自來水，等到要開始裝設的時候，那個開始的成本比較高，那其他地區我們一定來做。"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，每個縣市都一樣，南投、新竹、花蓮各地大家都一樣。","接著本席想請教院長，蔡政府執政8年來，有一個數字的成長幅度非常驚人，總共增加了50億，您知道是什麼數字嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：增加50億、超過50億的都很多，像GDP等等，太多數字了！"],["徐委員欣瑩：太多數字了，所以我這樣講大概您沒有辦法知道是什麼。本席跟您說，就是在蔡政府執政前、105年的時候我們臺灣受詐、被詐騙的金額是38億，到去年（112年）衝破88億，成長了50億……"],["陳院長建仁：我跟委員報告一下，我們去年攔阻了111億……"],["徐委員欣瑩：您先不要講，我等一下會問你，我也會給你講話，拜託、拜託！","所以我們政府打詐無能、全民受害！當然，打詐有很多層面，所以今天本席要特別就一個層面來就教於院長，就是民眾受害其中有一項非常多的就是網路上的詐騙廣告，現在網路上詐騙廣告有一個很大的問題就是它沒有實名制的刊登機制，所以院長是不是可以支持所有網路廣告都要實名制？您支持嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我們是想往這個方向去做，但是我們還要跟相關的網路平臺來溝通。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，說對了！所以您支持嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：我們是不是把目前做的情形……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，關於現在做的情形，本席其實也參閱了相關資料。我現在就是想要問院長，因為在我們今天的施政總質詢，我想就整體來就教於院長，當然在蔡政府執政這8年並不是都是您當行政院長，但是你現在剛好是第8年，所以由您承擔這一切。本席就是想就這個部分來請院長表態，所以你也支持要實名制，那在支持實名制之外，因為他會被詐騙，網路平臺的業者要不要負連帶的損害賠償責任？我現在就是問院長是否支持平臺業者也要負連帶損害賠償責任？"],["陳院長建仁：對投資詐騙的部分要負連帶的責任。"],["徐委員欣瑩：要嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以院長也認同，那請問行政院能不能在半年內提出具體的方案？這一點可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我們現在已經有方案，所以我說要請委員給我們的部長來說明一下已經有的方案，或者我們這樣子，在質詢完以後，我們來告訴委員相關的方案。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以如果已經有方案，那您可以回答嘛！我們能不能在半年內提出具體的方案？"],["唐部長鳳：我還是跟委員說明一下，目前是以金管會的投信投顧法，在投資詐騙方面，如果他沒有實名或者下架的話，有連帶賠償的責任。接下來我們已經把電子簽章法送到立法院了，所以如果能夠及時三讀通過的話，相信之後更多的類型在身分驗證上就更容易。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你講到這個，我正想問你，聽說電子簽章法送到立法院之後要3年才實施，這是怎麼回事？"],["唐部長鳳：不是這樣子的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是？"],["唐部長鳳：在裡面就是我們有一些部會的一些服務，目前是用公告的方式……"],["徐委員欣瑩：多久可以實施？電子簽章法送到立法院，多久可以實施？"],["唐部長鳳：一三讀通過馬上就可以實施。"],["徐委員欣瑩：三讀通過馬上可以實施？"],["唐部長鳳：剛剛講的3年是有些部會目前還只提供一些臨櫃的服務，他需要時間才能改成接受電子簽章。"],["徐委員欣瑩：可以加速嗎？不然這些民眾都有……"],["陳院長建仁：我想電子簽章法通過以後，我們會全面的推動各部會來加速。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝。","再來本席想請教院長，從去年開始，我們民眾在生活上，特別是在交通上有一項新出來的政策，讓他們滿有感受的，您知道是什麼嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：記點？其實去年開始的時候，就是希望能夠把「行人地獄」這個惡名去掉，所以在大院立法的時候，我們有增加了記點還有處罰的這些項目，當然民眾……"],["徐委員欣瑩：交通的部分有一項民眾特別有感，而且還造成不小民怨的是什麼？您知道是什麼嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：就是違規記點。"],["徐委員欣瑩：違規記點？"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：違規記點有很多層面，也對，違規記點造成很大的……"],["陳院長建仁：你講違規記點裡面的小部分是不是？你講的是那個我們所謂的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：科技執法！你知道有科技執法？"],["陳院長建仁：我曉得有科技執法。"],["徐委員欣瑩：去年開始上路的嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們民眾都感受很深，可是院長您有感受到科技執法對您有什麼影響嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我想……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，因為你的座車都有交通指揮，你有收過科技執法的罰單嗎？有沒有收過？沒有嘛！因為你都有交通指揮。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席在這裡要請院長您瞭解一下，科技執法被民眾最詬病、最抱怨的到底是什麼，抗議的到底是什麼？就是科技執法造成不少的擾民。首先本席一定要特別強調，我絕對支持科技執法，因為可以精簡一些人力，而且科技帶來便利，我們都非常認同。科技既然是帶來便利，怎麼會變成帶來擾民？首先，本席講一個例子，譬如說，您想像一下，在上下班交通巔峰時間，我們車子要左轉、在十字路口車子要左轉，所以綠燈的時候我是不是可以往前，然後左轉？可是我在路口的時候塞住了，綠燈的話，我車子當然是接著往前，結果沒想到左轉的這邊沒有通暢，接著就出現了紅燈，那你說我會不會被開單？"],["陳院長建仁：可以申訴。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，問題就在這裡！"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：為什麼他明明就不是真正的違規，你還要讓他申訴？這個部分有沒有可能在譬如說開單前還是花一點點……"],["陳院長建仁：判斷。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，判斷，院長您確實也是明理的，就是要判斷啊！不然很多民眾都覺得擾民。","還有救護車，我想會開車的人都知道，救護車來的時候你一定要讓，而且讓的時候，有時候譬如說聽到救護車的聲音，紅燈的話，我還是要跨越紅燈的那個線，我要讓開給它過啊！可是我就被開單了、民眾就被開單了，像這種你等他申訴……"],["陳院長建仁：我懂。"],["徐委員欣瑩：民眾就覺得你沒有科技執法的時候，我還不會這樣，一般民眾有的就摸摸鼻子，但有很多……","我查過，每個縣市都非常多。"],["陳院長建仁：委員你講的是正確的，增加很多的主要是去年我們修了一個和行人道路安全有關的條例以後才多，但是科技執法本身要改進的地方確實需要精進。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以可以嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：這個精進的部分……"],["徐委員欣瑩：科技執法要再加強執行面的改進。"],["陳院長建仁：我跟委員講，我們如果有用AI的幫助，然後做比較長時期的錄影，就能夠知道他為什麼會在那邊等很久。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，很好，院長您說得出這樣……"],["陳院長建仁：我們可以精進。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是現在中央到地方沒有一個統一的SOP。"],["陳院長建仁：這個我們請部長……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，你是完全放任地方在做嘛！"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，科技執法主要是警力不足，所以……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這個我們知道了。"],["王部長國材：是。現在是這樣，科技執法事實上……"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，這個我沒有要您回答，沒有要回答，我想這個就不要回答了。重點在於，現在科技執法我們希望落實開出罰單前的檢核機制，可不可以？只要回答本席可不可以。"],["王部長國材：對，可以。"],["徐委員欣瑩：可以，很好！"],["王部長國材：一般警員也會這樣做，就是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：一般警員也會，所以減少這種擾民的情況。"],["王部長國材：對，就是要開罰單之前他也會確認。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，非常好！請問院長，像科技執法的地點，您會知道它怎麼決定的嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：科技執法的地點，因為它在裝設的過程當中是地方政府比較清楚，它會按照以往違規的數目有多少、肇事的數目有多少，來判定什麼地方要做。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，但真正的執行面，我們希望中央能夠有一個統一的SOP。因為科技執法地點，誰最知道哪個路口它最需要……"],["陳院長建仁：地方嘛！"],["徐委員欣瑩：一定是地方。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：要嘛里長嘛，民意代表，對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：當然警察單位裝設的，所以它會最清楚，還有交通單位、地方政府，您剛剛也提到，還有可能是一些民意代表，他們會接受到最多民眾陳情，而且生活在那裡最瞭解。所以未來是不是地點決策的SOP裡面可以召集相關單位能夠共同開個會，聽取大家的意見，然後我們再來執行？"],["陳院長建仁：好，這個我想我們會請地方政府就像你講的一樣，參照警察機關相關的數據，還有民眾的反映，來做比較好的設置，但是在設置的過程當中，我想以往的數據可能是一個很重要的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，院長，如果可以，您就承諾可以，未來是不是可以我們就朝這個方向……"],["陳院長建仁：就是要地方政府來一起配合啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：對、對、對，所以中央應該也可以提出一些SOP的建議，或者是……"],["陳院長建仁：我們可以提一些建議。"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK！再來本席想請教院長，不管公務單位或私人單位，有的時候有人勇於揭弊，就是有一些弊案的揭弊者，您覺得他最擔心的是什麼？第一個，他的工作權；第二個，他的人身自由；第三個，以上皆是。"],["陳院長建仁：應該是以上皆是吧！我個人覺得。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，絕對是以上皆是，我們將心比心嘛！對，以上皆是！所以我們現在非常需要吹哨者保護法，或是說揭弊者保護法，像現在有很多潛在的吹哨者很怕被秋後算帳，所以想請問院長，您是否支持吹哨者保護法，或稱為揭弊者保護法儘速立法？"],["陳院長建仁：我想這個立法……"],["徐委員欣瑩：您支不支持？我就是想瞭解您的態度就好。"],["陳院長建仁：我支持有吹哨者的保護，但是要分階段，原因是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK！執行層面……"],["陳院長建仁：原因是公部門先，然後再來私部門。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，可以，這個階段沒有問題。再來，針對這個揭弊者保護法，本席也想請教，因為目前草案都還沒有送到立法院，牛步進行！所以本席也想在這裡提出四大訴求：第一個，公私部門都要納入，您剛剛有說先公部門，接著私部門；第二個，要有防黑函誣告機制；第三個，不能秋後算帳；第四個原則當然就是保障吹哨者或揭弊者的工作權，以及人身安全的保護機制要儘早介入。請問院長支持嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我想你的這個……"],["徐委員欣瑩：支持嗎？支持嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：不要急嘛！"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，我時間不夠，不是急，我時間有限。院長……"],["陳院長建仁：你的訴求我可以列入考慮，但是我剛才講過，你說公私部門都要納入，我們會有先後之分。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，沒關係嘛！要有先後，但你也認同可以納入，所以院長應該是認同。事實上，去年7月法務部版本好像送去行政院之後就沒有下文了，所以……"],["陳院長建仁：還在研議當中。"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，我的時間有限，是不是可以提一個具體時間？什麼時候行政院可以把行政院版的吹哨者保護法送到立法院？"],["陳院長建仁：因為現在還在法務部審議，是不是讓部長講一下？"],["徐委員欣瑩：時間喔，部長請講時間就好。"],["蔡部長清祥：因為前後有很多不同的版本，我們尊重行政院的指示一直在修正……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒關係，重點是你預計什麼時候？"],["蔡部長清祥：而且審議了12次之多。"],["徐委員欣瑩：預估、預估！做事情都要有個期程。"],["蔡部長清祥：行政院也審議了12次之多，所以我們還會繼續……"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是預計什麼時候啊？總可以有個預計吧？"],["蔡部長清祥：行政院一定會儘快地協調各方的意見。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我們的政府做事情都沒有期程、沒有目標！你至少訂一個目標，什麼時候？"],["蔡部長清祥：我想行政院一定會儘快地把各地方、大家的意見整合以後，很快的來送。"],["徐委員欣瑩：民進黨執政就是「儘快」，沒有期程目標！總是要訂啊！如果不行，你當然才知道要再加速，你沒訂時間、永遠儘快，你就會一直拖。"],["蔡部長清祥：已經有一個相當完整的版本了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒關係，本席要接著問下一題了。","院長，我們內閣中有一個在作為上非常叛逆的部會，您知道是哪一個嗎？您認為是哪一個？"],["陳院長建仁：我覺得我們內閣每一個……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有？好，你認為沒有。"],["陳院長建仁：沒有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那本席很快說明一下。像外交部，他一定會到駐在國，他的職責就是要去外交、對外各國，他不會都一直留在臺灣；僑委會他的目的就是接觸僑胞，希望讓僑民各方面的事務可以進行；客委會一定接觸客家鄉親；原住民委員會接觸原住民，都有良性的互動。但是我們的陸委會好像是不溝通、不協調，然後不接觸，也沒有實質作為。這個部分本席要特別在這裡提出來：我們內政委員會這3天都有陸委會答詢的專案報告，本席質詢的時候發現陸委會在我們講到M503航線的時候推給交通部；我們農產品禁止登陸問題推給農業部；金廈海域執法問題再推給海委會、海巡署，所以所有事情都甩鍋其他單位……"],["陳院長建仁：沒有，他沒有甩鍋，因為他是做整合。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好像陸委會主委可以像行政院長一樣，分配工作給各部會，我不知道我們陸委會……"],["陳院長建仁：他是在幫助各部會。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我不知道我們陸委會存在的價值！陸委會一年的預算9億元，海基會3億元，我們整個現在執政的政府，只有臺灣政策，沒有大陸政策，所以放任陸委會、海基會不溝通、不交流、不協調……"],["陳院長建仁：這我不同意。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以很多兩岸的問題僵化，譬如我們客委會絕對不會說所有臺灣的客家人全部來抵制，或者是有問題都不去溝通協調。不會嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：這個我不太同意。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以讓兩岸的關係down到零下3。C，這二個單位既然down到那麼低，是不是剛好可以凍起來？"],["陳院長建仁：我想陸委會盡了很大的努力，我們的臺胞或者臺生受到很好的照顧。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們兩岸的官方一直是不相往來的局面，我們真的要建議考慮，如果現在的執政都沒有辦法兩岸多對談，然後也不互相交流的話，那是不是這個存廢可以來考慮，而不只是拿來酬庸？"],["陳院長建仁：我可以回答嗎？"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席在這裡，我今天的質詢主要是針對這個……"],["陳院長建仁：OK，好，你要我回答的時候我來回答。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我時間真的不夠了。","最後，院長知道民進黨執政8年，有一個案子空轉8年，這個案子空轉8年，而且會一直開一直開，然後召集人一直換一直換，然後所有的問題每一次開會就一直是一樣的問題，可以一樣開一樣開，連地方政府、連民眾都受不了了，正反兩方每次叫去講一樣的話，這樣子可以做8年耶！然後每一次開會的時候相關單位都到，開完會以後，相關單位都到，然後我們都已經徵詢大家的意見，開完會回去繼續函詢各單位，就這樣一直空轉一直空轉。院長，你知道是什麼計畫嗎？應該是不知道。沒關係，因為你手上行政院的計畫太多了，本席要告訴你，那就是臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區，還有科學園區三期計畫。我們行政院在今年2月22號核定了一個「桃竹苗大矽谷計畫」，這個計畫您知道吧？你就回答知道或不知道？"],["陳院長建仁：知道，在本院已經有通過。"],["徐委員欣瑩：行政院的「桃竹苗大矽谷計畫」寫得很漂亮，願景寫得很好：引領全球的產業生態圈，深化先進製程以及技術開發，確保半導體根留臺灣。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：真的非常好！臺知園區的計畫跟科三期，它也是催生高科技研發園區，而且臺知園區這個計畫裡面也有整個國立交通大學。您也知道國立交通大學裡面就是培養很多的科技人才，也是各種的研發，在臺灣來說，我想也是數一數二的，但是為什麼這個案子一直是牛步進行，而且一直空轉？民眾都說空轉輪迴都一樣這樣在做。所以本席在這裡要很快地請教院長，這個案子所有的問題都解決了，但是我們行政院、我們中央一直換召集人，每次一換召集人，所有的步驟又全部重來，所有的都重來，過去開過會的，一而再、再而三都一樣，其實民間已經對我們中央執政這樣子非常的反感。"],["陳院長建仁：我可以回答嗎？"],["徐委員欣瑩：我現在請您回答的就是，是不是可以儘速核定？"],["陳院長建仁：新竹縣政府已經依審查的意見在最近補件送到內政部審議，所以我們會來加速審議。"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，我沒有時間了，我剩下20秒。"],["陳院長建仁：我們加速審議。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是不是可以儘速核定？"],["陳院長建仁：這一定要審議完才能夠核定。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你就是一直輪迴的審議！你都審議了，都是一樣的，沒有更新的。"],["陳院長建仁：但是新竹縣政府都不斷地補充意見，表示他們也認同嘛，才會要補充意見進來。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有、沒有，都補充過了！中央還是要求補充，是一模一樣的，都補充過了。"],["陳院長建仁：有很多的部分中央地方要合作，然後……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我的時間到了。"],["陳院長建仁：很多的意見，如果一次補充一個，還不夠嘛，要繼續補充。"],["主席：謝謝徐委員欣瑩的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","報告院會，本會期排定政黨質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，謝謝陳院長、鄭副院長以及各部會首長列席答詢。","3月12日（星期二）上午9時繼續開會，進行立法委員個人質詢內政組之質詢。現在休息。","休息（17時32分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","黃健豪","沈發惠","柯志恩","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","王育敏","張宏陸","陳菁徽","羅美玲","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":24,"meetingDate":["2024-03-08"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00002","1130601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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這個院長說得非常好。 我們現在全台灣還有四五十萬戶沒有自來水。 院長您可以想像沒有自來水的情況嗎?"},{"start":431.218,"end":451.767,"text":"像您今天穿的白襯衫,如果我們這些偏鄉地區的民眾穿著白襯衫,那他每次來水清華街他用他家的水洗衣服,最後變黃襯衫,變黃襯衫。還有我們平常喝水覺得很自然,這個都很健康,但是現在還有40幾萬戶,應該有超過100萬人以上。"},{"start":454.648,"end":471.245,"text":"沒有自來水,已經是民國113年了,這個民生必需的自來水是不是我們應該要用專案來加速讓他們可以擁有自來水?"},{"start":472.799,"end":498.767,"text":"對沒有偏遠地區沒有自來水這個部分就是幾年前開始確實就有一個專案來處理這個事情那這個專案今年結束之後我們也會提案讓未來再有新的方案持續來支持好謝謝謝謝部長那我也看到過去8年民進黨執政這8年整個的這個未接自來水的補助款我們發現呢"},{"start":500.981,"end":501.001,"text":"請暫停。"},{"start":521.741,"end":550.392,"text":"我們新竹縣呢這8年只拿了6.8億一個58億一個6.8億所以剛剛部長有講接下來的8年接下來要在為這個無自來水地區來爭取那我們希望能夠整體來看而且加速因為這些人他們也是中華民國的國民而且他們也是同樣都盡各種權利義務但是為什麼他們沒有自來水喝"},{"start":551.252,"end":555.256,"text":"這一點,我們請院長、部長這邊呢,我們能夠來加強,可以嗎?"},{"start":555.256,"end":572.492,"text":"是不是給我們的部長簡單的回顧一下,好不好?他們有計畫了,不是沒有計畫了。 是,是,那因為在偏遠地區,因為我的本席的時間,就是說未來我們能夠加速,我們會持續來支持,會專案會來再提。 因為這個東西它的急迫性就是水。"},{"start":573.433,"end":573.913,"text":"﹚徐欣瑩﹚"},{"start":599.379,"end":605.901,"text":"委員我簡單的講一下那個屏東是原來就原來的人都不用自來水等到要開始裝設的時候那個開始的成本比較高"},{"start":618.446,"end":637.945,"text":"每個縣市都一樣,南投、新竹、花蓮各方面大家都一樣。接著本席想請教院長蔡政府執政8年來有一個數字成長幅度非常驚人,總共增加了50億,您知道是什麼數字嗎?"},{"start":638.806,"end":639.086,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":652.796,"end":669.665,"text":"就是我們蔡政府執政前105年的時候我們臺灣受詐被詐騙的金額是38億到去年112年衝破88億那我跟委員報告一下我等下會問你我也會給你話講拜託拜託所以呢我們政府啊"},{"start":676.488,"end":695.602,"text":"打詐無能全民受害那當然打詐有很多層面所以今天本席要特別就一個層面來就教於院長就是民眾受害其中有一項非常多的就是網路上的詐騙廣告"},{"start":696.963,"end":709.593,"text":"所以網路上詐騙廣告現在很大一個問題是他沒有實名制的刊登機制所以院長是不是可以支持所有網路廣告都要實名制您支持嗎?"},{"start":710.991,"end":726.19,"text":"我們是想往這個方向去做,但是我們還要跟相關的平台、網路平台來溝通嘛。所以您支持嘛。那我們是不是目前做的情形,你先...沒有沒有,做的情形本席其實相關資料我也閱讀了齁。"},{"start":727.031,"end":755.941,"text":"我現在就是想要問院長因為我們今天這個施政總質詢我想就整體來就教於院長因為院長您當然這個蔡政府這8年不是都是您當行政院長但是你現在是剛好這個第8年所以您承擔這一切所以本席就是想就這個來請院長表態所以您也支持支持要實名制那支持實名制之外"},{"start":757.199,"end":760.1,"text":"請問行政院能不能在半年內提出具體的方案?"},{"start":786.049,"end":789.772,"text":"目前是以金管會的這個投信投估法在投資詐騙方面如果他沒有"},{"start":813.855,"end":817.878,"text":"您講到這我正想問電子簽章法聽說送到立法院之後要三年才實施這是怎麼回事?"},{"start":817.878,"end":818.218,"text":"不是這樣子的"},{"start":834.488,"end":862.387,"text":"那個在裡面就是我們有一些部會就是他的一些服務目前是用公告的方法開始使用。 那你多久可以實施?電子簽章法通過立法院多久可以實施?一三度通過馬上就可以實施。剛剛講的三年是有些部會目前還只提供一些臨櫃的服務他需要時間才能改成接受電子簽章。 那可以加速嗎?不然民眾這些民眾都有...我想各部會的電子簽章法通過以後我們會全面的來推動各部會來加速。"},{"start":864.296,"end":880.041,"text":"謝謝。那再來本席想請教院長,從去年開始,我們民眾在生活上,特別是在交通上,有一項新出來的政策讓他們蠻有感受的,您知道是什麼嗎?"},{"start":883.775,"end":884.716,"text":"就是違規祭典"},{"start":911.528,"end":933.096,"text":"違規祭典違規祭典有很多層面所以也對違規祭典造成很大的違規祭典裡面的小部分是不是就是你講的是那個我們所謂的科技執法你知道有科技執法這個嗎我曉得有科技執法科技執法去年開始上路的我們民眾都感受很深可是"},{"start":934.198,"end":959.962,"text":"院長您有感受到科技執法對您有什麼影響嗎?沒有,因為你的坐車都有交通指揮。你有收過科技執法的罰單嗎?有沒有收過?沒有嘛,因為你不會,你都有交通指揮。本席在這裡要請院長您了解一下科技執法被民眾最詬病、最抱怨的到底是什麼?抗議的到底是什麼?"},{"start":960.862,"end":965.783,"text":"就是科技執法造成不少的擾民,也就是說"},{"start":968.209,"end":994.801,"text":"首先本席一定要特別強調我絕對支持科技執法因為可以精簡一些人力而且科技帶來便利我們都非常認同那科技既然是帶來便利怎麼會變成帶來擾民那首先本席講一個例子就是比如說您想像在上下班交通巔峰時間我們車子要左轉在十字路口車子要左轉"},{"start":995.401,"end":995.581,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":1017.629,"end":1042.298,"text":"他明明就不是真正的違規你還要讓他申訴這個部分有沒有可能在比如說你開單前你還是花一點點判斷所以院長您這個確實也是這個明理的就是要判斷啊不然很多民眾都覺得還有救護車我想大家都知道會開車的都知道救護車來你一定要讓而且讓的時候有的時候"},{"start":1043.138,"end":1056.004,"text":"例如說聽到救護車聲音我紅燈我還是要跨越那個紅燈的那個線我要讓開給他過啊我就被開了就民眾就被開了那像這種你等他申訴"},{"start":1058.034,"end":1060.915,"text":"委員這是你講的是正確的,但是那個增加很多的是主要是去年我們修了一個"},{"start":1079.784,"end":1082.386,"text":"但是現在中央到地方沒有一個統一的SOP"},{"start":1108.615,"end":1110.076,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":1133.53,"end":1136.891,"text":"請問院長,像科技執法的地點,您會知道他怎麼決定的嗎?"},{"start":1157.679,"end":1157.839,"text":"﹚徐欣瑩"},{"start":1174.048,"end":1174.228,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":1201.715,"end":1202.595,"text":"請地方政府倡照檢察機關相關的數據還有民眾的反應"},{"start":1222.022,"end":1222.982,"text":"我們可以提給一些建議。"},{"start":1248.647,"end":1273.924,"text":"好那再來本席想請教院長這個我們不管公務單位或私人單位有的時候有人勇於揭弊就是有一些弊案揭弊者您覺得他最擔心的是什麼?第一個他的工作權第二個他的人身自由第三個以上皆是"},{"start":1276.18,"end":1297.438,"text":"應該以上皆是吧,我個人覺得。對,絕對是,以上皆是,我們將心比心嘛。對,以上皆是,所以我們現在非常需要吹哨者保護法,也或是說接避者保護法。那,像現在有很多潛在的吹哨者呢,他很怕被秋後算帳。"},{"start":1298.502,"end":1316.932,"text":"所以想請問院長您是否支持吹哨者保護法或稱為接避者保護法進促立法。我想這個立法……您支不支持我就是想了解您的態度就好。我支持有吹哨者的保護但是要分階段。"},{"start":1317.792,"end":1319.533,"text":"因為目前草案都還沒有送到立法院"},{"start":1332.702,"end":1360.938,"text":"那牛部進行,所以本席也想在這裡提出四大訴求。第一個,公私部門都要納入。您剛剛有說先公部門接著私部門。第二個,要有防黑函誣告機制。第三個,不能秋後算帳。第四個原則當然就是保障吹哨者或接避者的工作權以及人身安全的保護機制要儘早介入。請問院長支持嗎?"},{"start":1361.798,"end":1363.099,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":1391.182,"end":1399.228,"text":"因為現在還在法務部審議,是不是讓部長講一下,好不好?因為前後有很多不同的版本,那我們一直尊重行政院的指示,一直在修正,所以現在而且審議的格子不多。"},{"start":1418.484,"end":1422.691,"text":"行政院也審議了12次之多啦,所以我們還會繼續。 我想行政院一定會盡快的協調各方的意見。"},{"start":1434.077,"end":1463.457,"text":"我想行政院一定會盡快的把各地方大家的意見整合以後,很快的來送。民進黨執政就是盡快,沒有期程目標,總是要定啊。那你如果不行你當然才知道我要再加速,你沒定時間永遠盡快你就一直拖。已經有一個相當完整的版本了。沒關係,來,好,本席要接著問下一題了。院長,我們內閣中有一個非常,在作為上非常叛逆的部會,您知道是哪一個嗎?您認為是哪一個?"},{"start":1464.357,"end":1465.358,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":1491.817,"end":1510.873,"text":"但是呢我們的陸委會呢好像是不溝通不協調然後不接觸也沒有實質作為那這個部分本席呢要特別在這裡提出來在這個我們內政委員會呢這三天都有陸委會的這個答詢"},{"start":1513.695,"end":1538.413,"text":"的專案報告本席質詢的時候發現陸委會呢我們講到M503航線的時候推給這個交通部那我們農產品禁止登陸問題呢推給農業部那今夏海域執法問題再推給海委會海巡署所以呢所有事情都甩鍋其他單位沒有他沒有甩鍋因為他去做整合所以"},{"start":1539.173,"end":1560.779,"text":"好像陸委會主委呢可以像行政院長一樣分配工作給各部會。我不知道我們陸委會存在的價值一年陸委會的預算9億元海基會3億元那我們整個的現在的執政的政府呢只有台灣政策沒有大陸政策。"},{"start":1561.799,"end":1582.686,"text":"所以放任陸委會海基會呢就是不溝通不交流不協調所以很多兩岸的問題僵化比如說我們客委會絕對不會說哇所有的台灣的客家人全部來這個抵制或者是對這個有問題都不去溝通協調不會嘛"},{"start":1583.286,"end":1609.167,"text":"所以讓兩岸的關係盪到零下三度西。所以呢是不是這兩個單位剛好竟然盪到那麼低可以剛好動起來。所以我們對於兩岸官方一直是不相往來的局面。我們真的要建議考慮那如果現在的執政都沒有辦法這個兩岸"},{"start":1612.025,"end":1613.666,"text":"委員長您知道民進黨執政8年有一個案子空轉8年這個案子空轉8年而且會一直開一直開"},{"start":1640.458,"end":1664.238,"text":"然後召集人一直換一直換然後所有的問題每一次開會每一次開會就一直的這個一樣的問題可以一樣開一樣開連地方政府連民眾都受不了了正反兩方每次教訓講一樣的話這樣子可以做8年耶然後那每一次開會的時候相關單位都知道"},{"start":1665.555,"end":1665.635,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":1687.542,"end":1705.732,"text":"臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區還有科學園區三期計劃。 那我們行政院在今年2月22日合併了一個桃竹苗大細股計劃。 這個計劃您知道吧?您就回答知道或不知道。 知道,在本院已經有通過。"},{"start":1706.472,"end":1721.795,"text":"桃竹苗大細股計畫,這個計畫行政院的計畫寫得很漂亮,它院景寫得很好。引領全球的產業生態圈,深化先進製程以及技術開發,確保半導體耕留台灣,真的非常好。"},{"start":1722.256,"end":1747.737,"text":"那台資園區的計畫跟柯山崎他也是催生高科技研發園區而且台資園區的這個計畫裡面也有整個交大交通國立交通大學那您也知道國立交通大學裡面就是培養很多的科技人才也是各種的研發在臺灣來說我想也是最這個數一數二的但是為什麼這個案子"},{"start":1748.277,"end":1749.718,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":1772.619,"end":1772.999,"text":"我可以回答嗎?"},{"start":1789.8,"end":1810.365,"text":"我現在請您回答就是說是不是可以盡速核定?是不是?新竹縣政府已經依審查的意見在最近補件了來送到這個內政部審議。所以我們會來加速審議。那是不是可以盡速核定?我要是不是可以盡速核定?這一定要審議完才能夠核定啊。"},{"start":1810.725,"end":1836.834,"text":"謝謝﹖"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}