{"error":false,"id":["149639"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149639,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149639","日期":"2024-03-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-11T09:25:21+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-11T09:36:47+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:26","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300b03bef0c4f6d30fa7e24220554cbe99af8ba9b0039caa7a6af8d720157a301b45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"09:25:21 - 09:36:47","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":113,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（9時25分）主席、各位委員，還有NCC的官員們，大家好。我是翁曉玲，先請陳主委。"],["主席：陳主委請。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員早。"],["翁委員曉玲：陳主委早，陳主委今天一開始還沒有進行正式的詢答，大家在程序發言的時候就已經針對NCC的業務報告還有專題報告提了非常多的意見，我在這邊想請教陳主委，您認為來立法院進行業務報告的意義是什麼？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：接受國會的監督。"],["翁委員曉玲：那要讓立法院有什麼樣的內容可以監督？您認為業務報告的內容該是些什麼？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：基本上把我們過去做的還有未來想做的事情說明清楚。"],["翁委員曉玲：請問這些業務報告跟專題報告，在送到立法院之前有經過陳主委的核定嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：基本上我有初步看過了，因為最近立法院在開議當中，所以我有初步看過而已，不足的地方、各位委員指教的地方，我們會虛心接受，然後把它補充得更詳細。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，如果這兩份報告都是經過主委核定、參閱過才送到立法院的話，我必須說您真的是太藐視我們立法院了。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，我們沒有藐視，如果寫得不好，我們儘量補充。"],["翁委員曉玲：我要講一下，我們對比了您今天送的今年度業務報告和上個會期11月份時最後一次的業務報告，標題全部一樣，頁數也一樣，就連結語都一模一樣，我非常仔細的看了兩個版本的不同，頂多是你們去年下半年跟今年的出國活動不同，然後裡面部分的日期有些修改。更誇張的是，上個會期再上一次的報告，同樣的每一次的報告標題都一樣、內容也都一樣，我不知道您到底是怎麼樣帶領NCC的？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，這個……"],["翁委員曉玲：我們當大學教授都知道，如果學生每一次的作業都是寫一模一樣，我出不同的問題，結果他寫的作業都是一模一樣，這樣子的報告基本上我會退回請他重寫，甚至給他不及格。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，這個是業務架構的部分，本來監理機關的業務就是持續性的，當然委員在各方面的指教，有需要改進的部分我們會去改進，但因為它本來就有延續性，所以架構是一樣的。"],["翁委員曉玲：好的，謝謝您的說明。業務架構一樣，其實我們都知道，但是你報告的內容、你的標題、你的重點會不一樣，而不是說你就是架構一成不變，那你乾脆告訴我說你直接寫廣電三法就好了，你只要寫個電信管理法就好了，什麼叫做你的業務架構？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：每一年的資料不一樣。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來我想請教主委，您在NCC 8年，擔任NCC主委5年多，擔任委員2年多，請問在這8年裡面，您認為您最重要的建樹是什麼？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：很多啊！包括以電信部分來講，比如5G的建設、電信事業的合併、廣電秩序的建立，還有公平上下架的維持等等。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝。我想大家可能不會認為這些是您的建樹，一想到您的建樹，不外乎就是把中天新聞台下架，然後護航鏡新聞台申設……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這些都是依法處理……"],["翁委員曉玲：然後再把華視新聞台上架到52台……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這是強化公廣集團的功能。"],["翁委員曉玲：還有放任三立入股中嘉，我想這是一般社會大眾想到您在NCC主委任內做過什麼事情，我覺得這是蠻重要的印象。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：公廣集團……"],["翁委員曉玲：今天既然不審你提的業務報告跟專題報告，接下來我們就來做些口試好了。請問在整個換照程序的部分，關於諮詢委員會議，目前的委員名單你們有公開嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：當然沒有公開。"],["翁委員曉玲：為什麼不公開？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員他本來是基於專業的參與，我們要保護委員、避免外面的壓力啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝。諮詢委員會議現在已經法制化了，明定在衛星廣播電視法裡面，所有法制化的諮詢會議的委員名單都要公開，包含訴願會、法規會、人權保障委員會等等……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，基本上來講這沒有公開的問題。"],["翁委員曉玲：我認為你不公開、你不敢公開諮詢委員會的名單，代表你是……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，這是對專家，政府資訊公開法也規定有些東西……"],["翁委員曉玲：請尊重我的質詢權，我已經再三強調，我不希望你跟我搶答。我要說的是諮詢委員會議的委員名單不公開，就代表在這中間你安插自己的人，你不敢讓這些諮詢委員以權責相符的態度公開自己所做的評斷，所以我在這邊呼籲並要求你們公開諮詢委員會議的名單。另外，北高行判決之後，撤銷NCC的處分，請問你們有做什麼處理嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員是問哪一件？"],["翁委員曉玲：中天新聞台。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們上訴了啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：好，你們上訴了，你們有仔細的閱讀北高行判決嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：當然有啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：它裡面怎麼說？你們109年的一般頻道換照審查評分標準還在嗎？還適用嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個我們向來都一樣，評分標準都是一樣的，包括像中天的綜合台或其他新聞台的都是一樣的。"],["翁委員曉玲：北高行判決裡面講得非常清楚，你們109年的一般頻道換照審查評分標準，就是違反了換照審查辦法……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，這是……"],["翁委員曉玲：可是你們卻沒有檢討，而且一意孤行還在適用，我認為這是非常糟糕的一件事情。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個我們沒有辦法接受，所以我們上訴了。"],["翁委員曉玲：而且不要忘記了，北高行法院判決裡面還有提到，你們準備好了國賠79億嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那個已經被駁回了，那個部分……"],["翁委員曉玲：針對國家賠償的部分，你們有心理準備嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那個北高行已經駁回了，那個部分……"],["翁委員曉玲：如果這個案子到了最高法院判決，你們敗訴之後，陳主委，你要負連帶賠償責任嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有這個問題。"],["翁委員曉玲：你是主責，為什麼會沒有問題？為什麼沒有問題？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果委員看清楚，北高行已經把這個部分駁回了。"],["翁委員曉玲：現在北高行法院已經宣判你們……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們在上訴當中，這個確定的問題……"],["翁委員曉玲：第一，處分已經被撤銷……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：而且我們在依法處理當中……"],["翁委員曉玲：現在縱使在上訴，並不代表你們沒有敗訴的可能……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：當然都有可能。"],["翁委員曉玲：難道NCC內部都沒有準備、都沒有思考嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：當然我們都會處理，這我們都會依法去處理……"],["翁委員曉玲：如果你們真的敗訴，事後就會面臨國家賠償，當你們要賠79億的時候，你要負擔賠償責任嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：一樣，我們都是依法處理這個問題。"],["翁委員曉玲：針對這部分，我希望NCC回去之後要好好趕快做一些準備。","另外還有針對鏡新聞台的部分，你們當時給了鏡新聞12項負擔，12項的保留許可廢止權，你們有一一去查核他們是否做到了嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這都在條件裡面。"],["翁委員曉玲：請問一下，鏡新聞台現在有駐外記者嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：什麼叫駐外記者？你是說駐外國的記者嗎？"],["翁委員曉玲：是的。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我請內容處處長……"],["翁委員曉玲：所以主委你連你自己做的處分、你做的負擔你都不知道？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個有些是庶務性的部分，我們當然是由內容處……"],["翁委員曉玲：這是庶務性嗎？這麼重要的事情，你今天課予業者這麼重要的義務和負擔，你竟然會忘記……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對啊！日常在監理，本來就庶務性的事。當然啊！所以我跟委員說請我們內容處處長來跟委員報告嘛！"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你做了這麼多的負擔、做了這麼多的附附款，這有什麼意義？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：有啊！當然有啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：對你而言，那可能只是一個型式上……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個就是我們監理的要件……"],["翁委員曉玲：好，那請業務單位回答。"],["林處長慧玲：我們都會固定有一些是負擔、有一些是保留許可……"],["翁委員曉玲：我現在是問鏡電視新聞台他們有駐外記者了嗎？他們每年的駐外經費有提供給NCC去查核嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：駐外經費沒有啊！就沒有這個問題啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：沒有？請你回去好好看一下你們所做的附負擔。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有查核駐外經費的問題啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：你們沒有叫它提供嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有啊！駐外記者的經費，這個部分沒有吧！"],["翁委員曉玲：我真的希望NCC回去好好看看你們當時做了什麼附負擔，你們可以這樣子放縱鏡新聞台，這代表你們就是護航，你們寫了一大堆的負擔、寫了一大堆的附附款，根本沒有意義！那個只是作秀而已，只是讓大家覺得你們好像有給予鏡新聞台一些……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，沒有喔！包括以最近來講的話，像所謂製播政論節目，我們都有去處理喔！"],["翁委員曉玲：我現在講的不是這個，我現在講的是你們所講的每一個負擔它到底有沒有做好？因為時間的關係……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：所以這是日常監理的問題啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：我想今天還有很多的委員要質詢，所以我希望是不是可以請主席裁示，請NCC將鏡新聞台所有附附款執行狀況的各項紀錄以及證明……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我跟委員說明一下，駐外……"],["翁委員曉玲：不好意思，現在是我在講，不是你在說……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我跟委員說明嘛！"],["翁委員曉玲：你不用跟我說明了，我的時間不夠了！麻煩待會兒請主席裁示，會後請NCC將鏡新聞台附附款所有執行狀況的各項紀錄以及證明，都要送到立法院給每個委員參考，以上，謝謝。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：要送什麼？"],["主席：陳主委，他說你要把今後針對這個新聞台的部分要送給委員參考。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果是個案，又有營業祕密的部分，我們沒有辦法這樣送。"],["翁委員曉玲：這有什麼營業祕密？請問這有什麼營業祕密？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這當然有營業秘密啊！人家公司的預算執行，這不是營業祕密？我想這委員應該很清楚嘛！"],["翁委員曉玲：這涉及公益，這不是營業祕密……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這涉及公益，如果這樣的話，那每一家公司的預算……"],["翁委員曉玲：你去看看政府資訊公開法裡面怎麼樣規定，你不要跟我辯！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這不是辯的問題嘛！"],["翁委員曉玲：你現在不用再說！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是辯的問題嘛！"],["主席：翁委員是針對重點的部分啦！"],["翁委員曉玲：是，就是鏡新聞台……"],["主席：你要每一樣送來的話，確實有點狀況……"],["翁委員曉玲：沒有，我只是要求針對鏡新聞台所做的12項負擔以及12項附保留廢止權，現在鏡新聞台的執行狀況如何……"],["主席：鏡新聞啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們事後的，我們會要求……"],["翁委員曉玲：我現在是要確定到底陳主委有沒有護航鏡新聞台。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：事後監督……"],["主席：可以嗎？鏡新聞的12項負擔。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：每一個所謂負擔的部分，我們可以把……"],["翁委員曉玲：你不敢提就代表你理虧，你根本沒有去查核，你心虛！我希望你可以在會後的一個禮拜之內趕快提送。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：在合法的範圍內我們會提供。"],["翁委員曉玲：理論上來講，你每3個月都要去查核一次，3個月的紀錄你有做出來嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們都有在進行啦！"],["主席：陳主委，會後也向翁委員說明一下，好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，謝謝。"],["翁委員曉玲：不只是向我說明，在場有很多委員也都很關心，所以要把所有報告書送給立法院每個委員一份。"],["主席：你現在要確認一下他要的是什麼。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們要確認委員要送什麼，而且什麼東西要去處理的問題，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝翁委員的發言。","下一位請葉元之委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":142,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-3","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","李昆澤","黃健豪","許智傑","林沛祥","翁曉玲","葉元之","邱若華","林俊憲","傅崐萁","徐富癸","徐巧芯","羅智強","蔡其昌","林德福","魯明哲","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","洪孟楷","陳俊宇","陳培瑜","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","吳春城","陳昭姿","黃國昌","麥玉珍","游顥","王鴻薇","何欣純","廖先翔","陳素月"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-11"],"gazette_id":"1131101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家通訊\n傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131101_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.9040937500000001,"end":2.2415937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.59534375,"end":7.152218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.164718750000002,"end":10.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.62846875,"end":12.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.176593750000002,"end":14.037218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.649093750000002,"end":14.172218750000003},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麼處理嗎"},{"start":338.885,"end":361.47,"text":"我以為是問哪一件中天新聞台我們上訴了你們上訴了你們有仔細的閱讀北高型判決嗎當然有啊是然後呢他要他裡面怎麼說你們的109年的一般頻道換照審查評分標準還在嗎還適用嗎這個我們都像的都一樣這個評分標準都是一樣的包括各種像中天的中二台或是其他新聞台的方式都一樣"},{"start":362.776,"end":384.356,"text":"北高型判決裏面講得非常清楚你109年的一般頻道換照審查評分標準就是違反了這個換照審查辦法可是你們卻沒有檢討而且還這個一意孤行還在試用我認為說這個是非常糟糕的一件事情而且不要忘記了北高型法院判決裏面還有在講"},{"start":386.601,"end":403.077,"text":"你們準備好了國賠79億嗎?針對國家賠償的部分你們有心理準備嗎?如果說這個案子到了最高刑法院判決你們敗訴之後陳主委你要負連帶賠償責任嗎?你是主責為什麼會沒有這個問題?為什麼沒有這個問題?現在北高興法院"},{"start":409.924,"end":413.668,"text":"已經宣判你們的署份已經被撤銷現在縱使在上訴並不代表你們沒有敗訴的可能難道NCC內部都沒有準備都沒有思考嗎如果說你們真的敗訴之後就不加賠償"},{"start":427.545,"end":429.106,"text":"請問一下你們近新聞台現在有駐外記者嗎?"},{"start":456.411,"end":473.581,"text":"什麼叫駐外記者?你說駐外國的記者嗎?來,我們那個請那個來,我們那個內容處處長所以主委你連你自己做的處分你做的負擔你都不知道這是事務性嗎?這是這麼重要你今天科語業者一個這麼重要的義務為什麼負擔?你既然你就會忘記所以說我跟委員講說請我們內容處處長跟委員報告所以你做了這麼多的負擔做了這麼多的付款這有什麼意義?對你而言那可能只是一個"},{"start":485.247,"end":488.408,"text":"我現在問就是說進電視新聞台他們有駐外記者了嗎?他們每年的駐外經費有提供給你NCC去查核嗎?"},{"start":512.332,"end":517.335,"text":"我真的希望NCC你回去好好看看你們當時做了什麼付負擔你們可以這樣子這個放縱"},{"start":537.745,"end":538.847,"text":"委員沒有 我們每一個"},{"start":552.645,"end":579.955,"text":"包括我們最近來講的話像所謂自播所謂爭論節目這個我們都有去處理我現在講的不是這個我現在講的是你每一個負擔他到底有沒有做好因為時間的關係我想今天還有很多的委員要質詢所以我希望是不是可以請主席才是請NCC將進新聞台的所有付款的執行狀況的各項紀錄以及證明不好意思現在是我在講不是你在說你不用跟我說明了我的時間不夠了"},{"start":581.255,"end":603.295,"text":"麻煩待會請主席裁示會後請NCC將新聞台的付款所有的執行狀況的各項記錄以及證明都要送到立法院給每個委員參考以上謝謝要送什麼他說你要把這個今後你對這個新聞台的部分你要送給委員參考"},{"start":604.478,"end":611.063,"text":"如果是個案有營業秘密的話我們沒有辦法這樣送請問這有什麼營業秘密這涉及公益這不是營業秘密你去看看資訊公開政府資訊公開法裡面怎麼樣規定你不要跟我變我現在不用再說"},{"start":625.032,"end":630.055,"text":"我只是要求針對禁新聞台裡面的所做的12項負擔以及12項負保留廢紙權現在禁新聞台的執行狀況如何我現在是要確定到底陳主委有沒有護航禁新聞台"},{"start":651.246,"end":651.907,"text":"我們都有在進行啦,我們都有在進行"},{"start":670.49,"end":684.599,"text":"會委鄉公署也說明一下好不好好謝謝謝謝不是只是像我說你因為我在場很多的委員都很關心所以要所有的報告書送立法院每個委員一份說明要確認委員要送什麼而且什麼東西要去處理的問題好謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}