{"error":false,"id":["149696"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149696,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149696","日期":"2024-03-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-11T11:51:39+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-11T11:59:35+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:56","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf430048dc519d756d80e77e24220554cbe99af8ba9b0039caa7a6513549caf9a0d0ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"11:51:39 - 11:59:35","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1181,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（11時51分）謝謝主席，有請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：你好，從早上到現在大家對你的評價，其實大家都知道你在主政NCC的這幾年當中，你總共當主委當幾年？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：就是從2020年的8月1號到目前，大概三年多吧。"],["賴委員士葆：所以這一任下來就一任4年。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對，一任4年。"],["賴委員士葆：大家對你的看法就是你把NCC東廠化。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有啦，委員，我們沒有東廠化。"],["賴委員士葆：你箝制言論自由，你自己講的，沒有百分之百的言論自由，你居然今天講新聞自由。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我沒有箝制任何的言論呀，不是任何的言論都是屬於言論自由啦，我剛剛意思是這樣。"],["賴委員士葆：民主可貴的地方在言論自由。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有錯啊。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你還是堅定沒有言論自由？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：當然保障言論自由，有啊。"],["賴委員士葆：你還是堅定沒有百分之百的言論自由？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我說有些言論……那你說殺人放火、恐嚇這個算言論自由嗎？這是言論啊，但它不是言論自由保障的言論啊。"],["賴委員士葆：我跟你講的不是這個東西，你很清楚的，是媒體的，你關中天到現在為止的15件官司你都輸，請問你都要繼續……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有15件，現在10件當中……沒有15件的問題啦。"],["賴委員士葆：請問你都繼續要上訴嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們贏14件、他們贏2件。"],["賴委員士葆：你不要一直插話，好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不好意思，我跟委員回答。"],["賴委員士葆：來，請問你確定都要上訴嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們委員會討論啊。"],["賴委員士葆：要不要上訴我問你嘛，要不要？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：要不要上訴是委員會要討論啊。"],["賴委員士葆：討論完了沒有？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：比如說中天的部分我們已經上訴啦。"],["賴委員士葆：上訴幾件？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：你就看那個輸贏的部分嘛，比如說換照案這個部分來講，北高行後來我們上訴了嘛。"],["賴委員士葆：請問上訴花多少錢？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：上訴花多少錢就看律師費用。"],["賴委員士葆：不是這樣子，你不要一副很輕蔑的樣子，你不要讓我拍桌子！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有！我們沒有……"],["賴委員士葆：我跟你講，你要很嚴謹回答國會議員的問題。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是。"],["賴委員士葆：總共花多少錢？你告訴我啊。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員你說……"],["賴委員士葆：北高多少錢？北高那個換照的事情花多少錢？有，資料有。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們律師費用來講的話……"],["賴委員士葆：花多少錢？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：你是說中天所有的案件還是單單新聞台？"],["賴委員士葆：全部加起來。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：全部加起來的話是682萬吧。"],["賴委員士葆：全部，這個有編預算嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：當然有編預算，我們……"],["賴委員士葆：編預算，所以你準備跟人家打官司的！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那個是訴訟費用。"],["賴委員士葆：你就有編這個東西。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：訴訟費用本來就是我們的公務預算。"],["賴委員士葆：預算裡面有嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：有啊，公務預算本來就有。"],["賴委員士葆：好，以後我們就全部把它砍掉！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有啦，這個訴訟費用……"],["賴委員士葆：我們全部砍掉！你NCC做出來的決定，你要一言九鼎，哪有說準備給人家告的！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：NCC不是只有監理中天一台，我們監理的東西很多啦。"],["賴委員士葆：不是只有中天一台，但是你做的結果是被人家告，然後你告輸了，準備告輸了跟人家打官司，這個費用要把你刪掉，我跟你講。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有啦，那個訴訟費用本來是尊重人民權利救濟的權利啦，沒有那個……"],["賴委員士葆：你是官員，怎麼叫救濟的權利？你官員要自救，那就不用醫了！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，我們要defense、我們要防禦的問題啊，訴訟本來是攻擊、防禦的問題嘛，都一定會編訴訟費用，像重大的案件我們一定會請律師啊。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有，一而再，再而三，如果你只輸一件你就不會那麼計較，一而再，再而三你都輸，代表你做的根本不對嘛。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有一而再，再而三的輸，沒有這個問題。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你道地的你可以看啊，加上鏡電視、加上三立入股中嘉的事情，細節我們就不講了。你去年整年度在講的鏡電視，大家都很清楚嘛，你完全的偏鏡電視跟三立，然後對中天就一腳把它踹掉，它做的違反事項就是干預，你講的，原來的什麼報導、什麼問題以及公司治理等這些東西其他第四台也都有出現，然後你專門攻中天！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們標準都一樣啊、標準都一樣，沒有其他的那個……標準都一樣、法規也都一樣，就是這樣處理啦。"],["賴委員士葆：處理結果就不一樣嘛，人都一樣。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：因為每家的狀況不同嘛。"],["賴委員士葆：來，我再問你喔，你確定7月份要離開這個職位嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是啊。"],["賴委員士葆：如果賴清德找你呢？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，我學校借調……就是委員所瞭解的，你也是來自大學，我們借調最長就是8年了，我時間到了。"],["賴委員士葆：你8年到了，是不是？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對、對、對。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你不會辭掉就繼續當官？不會？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有、沒有，回去學校、回去學校。"],["賴委員士葆：好，我跟你講，其實讓你做到7月你的任期結束、讓你做好做滿，其實是很不應該的啦，你應該提早結束。","來，我們來看你喔，你可以看喔，你利用所謂的新世代打擊詐欺的策略行動綱領1.5版，你用了第二預備金有1億元的補助給誰呢？中華電信、台灣固網、新世紀，然後全部都是這些五大電信公司，台灣大哥大、遠傳幾乎全部都在裡面，這個另類的……我不知道你抓一個東西然後就補助、錢就亂撒。我就記得那時候、我們在防疫的時候你就編了幾億，我好像把你砍掉，你編了8億，後來討價還價砍了3億，你抓了機會就趕快送錢給電信公司？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個沒有送錢給電信公司的問題。"],["賴委員士葆：怎麼不是呢，就是啊！你是補助單位，你總共補助1億耶！中華電信加起來……你看固網等等。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：電信詐欺本來就是公私協力的問題嘛。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼東西？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我知道，電信詐欺本來就是全民、包括公私協力去處理這個議題啊。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼東西？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：公私協力，政府部門跟企業……"],["賴委員士葆：你為什麼可以用第二預備金？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那我們……"],["賴委員士葆：第二預備金的使用條件很嚴謹的，這個不通啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們本來沒有這個預算，但是打詐目前成為國家最重要的政策之一，所以我們當然是申請第二預備金去處理啊。"],["賴委員士葆：可以這樣子用第二預備金喔？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：而且跟委員報告，我們真的是有國際那種攔阻或者是警示，其實真的是……"],["賴委員士葆：績效呢？你績效在哪裡呢？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們績效報告裡面有啊，886國際來話數是降低啊，甚至已到那個……"],["賴委員士葆：主委呀，我們清楚看得到你不僅僅在這些決定要不要撤照、要不要換照完全是一個政治考量；另一部分，一抓住機會，像原來的建基地台也是一樣，回饋五大電信商一百五十幾億，都很明顯地看到NCC的瀆職現象，有夠明顯……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，這是……"],["賴委員士葆：你不要回答，我沒有叫你講話，你不要回答、你不要回答！讓我講，因為我的時間到了，我要結束我的質詢就是，NCC可以看得到它的判斷完全政治考量，它在用錢的部分想盡辦法找了名目就補助給五大電信商，防疫的時候補助幾億，對外宣稱他們都是免費的，結果不是欸，結果都是你買單，清清楚楚看得到。","我建議主委，你在立委質詢時不要手交叉在胸前。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不好意思。"],["賴委員士葆：非常敵意、這非常有敵意喔，不能這樣子。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，謝謝。"],["賴委員士葆：國會殿堂是多麼嚴肅的。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對，不好意思。"],["賴委員士葆：請你仔細聽喔。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好。"],["賴委員士葆：我時間到就不講了，我就是最後一句話告訴你，不能夠你的判斷都是政治判斷，然後抓住機會就補助、送錢給財團，人民不能接受。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，這個都是法定預算經過大會的審議啦，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝賴士葆委員的發言。","下一位請鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":142,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-3","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","李昆澤","黃健豪","許智傑","林沛祥","翁曉玲","葉元之","邱若華","林俊憲","傅崐萁","徐富癸","徐巧芯","羅智強","蔡其昌","林德福","魯明哲","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","洪孟楷","陳俊宇","陳培瑜","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","吳春城","陳昭姿","黃國昌","麥玉珍","游顥","王鴻薇","何欣純","廖先翔","陳素月"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-11"],"gazette_id":"1131101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家通訊\n傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131101_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.207218750000001,"end":9.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.20659375,"end":11.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.961593750000002,"end":12.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.46659375,"end":20.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.48346875,"end":21.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.035968750000002,"end":22.559093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.38596875,"end":26.54159375},{"speaker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