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12:18:02","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1420,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時10分）主席謝謝。麻煩請陳耀祥主委。"],["主席：好，主委請。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：陳主委，兩個議題跟你討論，你今天的業務報告第16頁裡面特別有強調加強抽驗無線機上盒，也就是我們比較俗稱的不管什麼安卓盒子、安博盒子等等嘛！對不對？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：到目前為止，到底市面上有沒有所謂NCC認證的這一些電視機上盒？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：有。"],["洪委員孟楷：安博盒子、安卓盒子，那是所謂的什麼……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：機上盒這個部分一定要有送我們審驗才是合法的機上盒。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：剛剛委員所瞭解的像安博或是這種類似功能當然都會有，如果是合法都要經過我們審驗。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，但是現在網路上，我隨便在拍賣網站上面查，都還是可以查得到什麼越域破解版、什麼最新升級、有發票、有保固、豪華越域版，這一些算是合法還非法？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：跟委員報告一下，我們有個OTT平臺就是這樣，有些東西是我們處理、我們負責那個型式驗證，剛剛委員所關心的這個部分是侵權的問題，就是侵害著作權的問題，我們有請所謂相關檢調還有警察去處理這個議題。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，到目前有沒有主動地查緝或是主動地瞭解有多少件？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：有、有、有，我們有請我們區處到實地的通路或者是網路通路去查這些相關的……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們主動查緝有多少件？因為本席會認為這一件事其實從過去到現在，我們一而再再而三在討論……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們不斷地在查，我請我們區處……"],["洪委員孟楷：但是到目前為止，你只要上拍賣網站都還是可以查到，甚至不用任何的技巧、不用任何的關鍵字啊！你就打入「第10代、第9代、第11代豪華越域版」，而且本席就覺得說感覺是向公權力挑戰啦！「越域破解版馬上可看」，甚至上面還有講什麼？還有講說這是NCC認證啦！但是本席一查，用那個型號丟進你們的網站上面一查，抱歉，它出現是什麼？它出現是「本驗證證明已經廢止」，換言之什麼？換言之，業者它就是用似是而非的一個序號，好像讓大家以為是NCC認證、官方掛保證，但實際上不是啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：所以這是犯罪行為啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：那這樣子為什麼會在21世紀的臺灣，我們現在隨便搜尋都還可以搜尋得到？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我請處長跟委員報告一下好不好……"],["洪委員孟楷：是行政單位沒有執法嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，我們一直在執法當中。"],["蔡處長國棟：委員，跟您報告一下，我們這個安博盒子會認證是因為射頻器材，的確是有射頻器材在網路上販售，每年會被檢舉的陳情案件大概兩萬八千多件，我們有跟數位部洽電商平臺，去幫我們注意一下像委員剛才提到的，它標示的內容如果是我們已經廢止的或者是它根本沒有標示認證，我們也請他去……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席想請教到目前為止，本席上來之前都還可以查詢得到、輕易可以搜尋得到，那是哪一個單位？就變成是我們行政單位應作為不作為。"],["蔡處長國棟：我們都一直在跟電商平臺，特別是有特定的電商平臺，我們其實前幾天還發文去把一些犯規的這個情形，比較嚴重的……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以是電商平臺不理你們？不理NCC？"],["蔡處長國棟：因為目前這個電商……"],["洪委員孟楷：等一下，本席搜尋得到是事實，這些事件持續的不斷發生也是事實……"],["蔡處長國棟：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：過去到現在交通委員會一而再再而三強調，這樣子侵犯著作財產權、侵犯閱聽大眾以及內容產生者的權利也是事實，那本席想問到底環節出了什麼問題？"],["蔡處長國棟：跟委員報告，因為……"],["洪委員孟楷：要人給人、要錢給錢，你們一直強調說這個跨部會通盤檢討合作，但是重點就是層出不窮啊！"],["蔡處長國棟：我們也是一直跟數位部，數位部也是幫我們跟電商平臺去做……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在這到底是NCC的責任還是數位部的責任？還是又要再甩鍋？"],["蔡處長國棟：沒有、沒有，電商……"],["洪委員孟楷：交通委員會就是你說數位部，數位部以後就說NCC，NCC又說可能是警政署。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，跟委員報告，這本來就是共同努力……"],["洪委員孟楷：誰的責任？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們都有，共同都有。"],["蔡處長國棟：我們甚至也到市場上實體店面去找，網路我們都定期叫同仁上去看，所以處理這個案件……"],["洪委員孟楷：不要讓本席覺得說我們隨便搜尋都比你們說有編列預算、有專責人員來得有用、有效。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好……"],["洪委員孟楷：來，主委，你的任期到7月31號嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：這件事情我可不可以請教，7月31號以前我們還會在這一些拍賣平臺上面看到這些違法的事情嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們會努力去掃蕩，但是……"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有辦法保證？有沒有辦法能夠行行好，幫忙國人、幫忙這一些我們內容產生者？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們一定努力去……"],["洪委員孟楷：你努力了多久的時間了？你過去有多少時間努力？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這本來就是不斷發生的事情，我們也不斷的去處理，這部分……"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，最近有一個很紅的國片叫做「周處除三害」。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席最後1分鐘要把「周處除三害」這一句話送給你，因為在過去你擔任NCC主委任內，確實已經讓國人對NCC很不信任，如果有民意調查或是不信任指數的話，我想NCC會是排在前三名，甚至第一名，因為偏頗。所以最後這兩、三個月的時間，很多的委員剛才已經質詢了，包括中天新聞臺連15敗，你說還在上訴……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，它沒有連15敗的問題……"],["洪委員孟楷：你不承認這個是敗訴，你還在上訴，沒關係，但是從過去前任主委1年只有編列150萬的法律訴訟費用，到你上任之後每年編列600萬、700萬，去年編列1,300萬，今年編列685萬，重點就是NCC的訴訟層出不窮。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有層出不窮的問題……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以本席最後，「周處除三害」第一害，把國人過去NCC侵犯新聞自由、言論自由的害給解決回來；第二害，用一樣的標準去檢視所有的新聞臺；以及第三害，你最後還有時間喔！我覺得你應該要好好的跟國人說明清楚到底過去是誰授意、誰指使要你關掉中天新聞臺？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：第一個，我不是周處……"],["洪委員孟楷：可以跟國人說明清楚，「周處除三害」最重要就是貴在他到最後良心發現，認清自己是罪魁禍首，認清自己是傷害臺灣新聞自由、言論自由的人。如果說你沒有這個自知的話，本席會認為你卸任之後不是事情的結束，有可能還會再跑法院，現在不講清楚，到時候法院一樣會見到……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們就是依法去處理……"],["洪委員孟楷：這是本席給你的忠告。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，謝謝委員的忠告。"],["洪委員孟楷：「周處除三害」請你好好的記在心裡。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我個人不是周處，我們也是依法去處理這個事情，謝謝。"],["洪委員孟楷：能夠除三害的時候，好好利用這個時間啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們就不是周處，怎麼會有除三害的問題？"],["主席：那誰是周處？誰是三害啊？你們兩個啊？好啦！謝謝。三害來了，你看。","請傅崐萁總召發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":142,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-3","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","李昆澤","黃健豪","許智傑","林沛祥","翁曉玲","葉元之","邱若華","林俊憲","傅崐萁","徐富癸","徐巧芯","羅智強","蔡其昌","林德福","魯明哲","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","洪孟楷","陳俊宇","陳培瑜","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","吳春城","陳昭姿","黃國昌","麥玉珍","游顥","王鴻薇","何欣純","廖先翔","陳素月"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-11"],"gazette_id":"1131101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家通訊\n傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131101_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.64221875,"end":6.105968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.332843750000002,"end":15.539093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.16346875,"end":26.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.816593750000003,"end":21.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.10721875,"end":25.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.06909375,"end":26.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.11971875,"end":26.136593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.47409375,"end":32.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.173468750000005,"end":33.612218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.612218750000004,"end":33.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.67971875,"end":33.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.74721875,"end":33.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.76409375,"end":35.181593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.83159375,"end":33.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.88221875,"end":33.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.96659375,"end":35.282843750000005},{"sp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層出不窮啊那我們也是一直跟數位部 現在數位部也是幫我們跟電商品牌去做這到底是NCC的責任還是數位部的責任還是又要再甩鍋沒有沒有 電商品交通委員會就是 你說數位部數位部一號就說NCC NCC就說可能是警政署沒有沒有 各位也不知道 這本來就是共同努力的我們都有共同 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