{"error":false,"id":["149726"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149726,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149726","日期":"2024-03-12","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第4次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-12T15:22:37+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-12T15:38:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:43","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3a8d0956074a29382dae76e8316b976604b328b65eecebe0f8ba9b0039caa7a61d216fa11ae63dd35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"15:22:37 - 15:38:20","會議時間":"2024-03-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n三、3月12日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":183,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（15時22分）有請我們陳院長。"],["主席：麻煩請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：邱委員午安，恭喜你當選立委。"],["邱委員鎮軍：謝謝。我想請問陳院長，你知道我是哪裡的立法委員？"],["陳院長建仁：苗栗。"],["邱委員鎮軍：苗栗，謝謝院長。"],["陳院長建仁：你當過苗栗市市長，你對苗栗很有貢獻。"],["邱委員鎮軍：謝謝。我們出身於地方，有一些問題在這邊請教院長。對於桃竹苗大矽谷方案，我們都非常關心，看起來目前這個計畫還是一個雛型，還必須有很多計畫支撐，請教院長，什麼時候才會有具體時程？"],["陳院長建仁：好。這是一個上位計畫，我們已經通過。我們也覺得這樣一個大矽谷計畫對於桃竹苗本身的整合性發展很重要，且涉及的相關部會相當多，所以我們請國發會做整體盤整。是不是給國發會主委簡單講一下？"],["邱委員鎮軍：我順便問一下國發會……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看到今年編列了200億預算，對吧？200億預算？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：具體部分是哪些？這200億用在哪裡？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：您是說苗栗的部分是不是？"],["邱委員鎮軍：不是，是整個桃竹苗大矽谷計畫。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不只200億，現在整個桃竹苗大方案是一個上位計畫，下面有各部會要執行的一些相關計畫及預算。比如說交通部分，有一些交通納到這裡面來以後，我們要管考它的一些相關進度；比如說有一些綜合規劃已經過了，就要開始做細部規劃，開始實施、開始進行。但有一些是雛形跟想法而已，我們會儘快來啟動……"],["邱委員鎮軍：沒關係，那我請教一下，我們的大矽谷計畫在產業園區的部分要增加52處，是嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是、是、是！你這邊的資料是對的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：占地總共1,200公頃？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是，這個是產業園區的部分。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看到苗栗產業園區的規劃是145公頃，是吧？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：請問新竹跟桃園的比例是多少？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：以目前來講，現在就是說我們園區的部分，不管是科學園區也好，或是產業園區也好，基本上是採取滾動式的部分，要看產業上的需求，第二個是地方政府如果盤點出來，也準備好了，我們就可以把它滾動進來。"],["邱委員鎮軍：目前我們苗栗縣大概預估有900公頃的產業用地，我看到我們的比例總共是1,200公頃，苗栗縣只有145公頃，我在這邊也希望我們的院長能夠在這個部分多加斟酌考量，讓苗栗900公頃土地能夠更有效的來利用。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，我們後續會跟苗栗縣政府比較積極的溝通，看看哪個部分真的準備好了，準備好了之後……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看到的是這樣啦，我們苗栗縣目前有3個地方，就是頭份……"],["陳院長建仁：對，頭份……"],["邱委員鎮軍：頭份有用地……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：頭份跟竹南，那個是科學園區。"],["邱委員鎮軍：但是因為它是私人土地較多，對不對？可能徵收上會比較繁瑣一點。"],["陳院長建仁：是，困難。"],["邱委員鎮軍：第二個當然就是我們的竹南，竹南這邊也有空地。另外就是後龍……"],["陳院長建仁：後龍，對，3個地方。"],["邱委員鎮軍：當然，我希望行政院這邊能夠儘快啦，因為這個計畫對我們苗栗縣真的非常重要，尤其是賴清德準總統在選前就有講過，要把苗栗變成科技大縣，以現在規劃範圍的比例來說，我覺得太低，我希望國發會這邊來協助，希望苗栗能夠規劃更多的土地，讓我們一些產業能進駐，帶動苗栗經濟，好不好？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是，委員提到的後龍，過去縣政府有報編，想要做成產業園區，當然，中間還是有一些需要溝通的部分，我們是希望儘快，苗栗縣政府如果可以跟當地居民有很好的溝通，我們就可以儘快啟動，看是不是要滾動式檢討這個部分。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，您剛剛講到交通的部分，現在交通的部分您怎麼處理？尤其是第二交流道，還有楊梅到頭份的楊頭段拓寬工程。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是，這個都有納進去了。"],["陳院長建仁：都有在大矽谷計畫裡面。"],["邱委員鎮軍：有納入計畫嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，有。"],["邱委員鎮軍：可是我看到的是楊頭的部分已經確定了，那頭份第二交流道的部分呢？有納入在這個計畫裡面嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：頭份的話，我記得好像應該是有的，我可能要check一下。"],["陳院長建仁：委員，他在check的時候，我跟委員報告一下，實際上在桃竹苗大矽谷計畫的過程中，我們很希望地方政府跟中央政府一定要一起來做，譬如說我們以前在竹南科學園區做的很成功嘛，未來無論是後龍也好，或是其他地區也好，地方政府也要有一些自己的看法，然後土地徵收的部分，你講的是最好啦，土地徵收的部分可能是地方政府也要來一起合作，這樣我們就能很快的推動。"],["邱委員鎮軍：謝謝院長。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，跟你回應一下，剛才提到的頭份是有的，是有納進來。"],["邱委員鎮軍：已經加進來了是嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，已經加進來了，沒有錯。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那我再請問，我們72線接61線的這2條道路的計畫有併進去嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：有，現在在辦綜合規劃跟環評當中。"],["邱委員鎮軍：還在做規劃？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，我在這邊建議，我不知道院長有沒有發現，全臺灣所有的東西向道路中，只有我們苗栗沒有接到國道，其實兩邊是很近的，我希望這一次也能納入一併考量，大家來做研議好嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：好，因為今天交通部長沒有來，不過所有的整個大矽谷計畫，在我們當時的規劃當中，就是有橫向的、縱向的，變成一個網路，細節的部分也許再請交通部長……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啦，因為我看到我們整個計畫，不論是在桃園或新竹，我們苗栗的水、電都是往上送的，我希望院長不要在用水或用電的時候就想到苗栗，但要建設的時候就建設到別的地方去。"],["陳院長建仁：不會！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不會啦，基本上是聯合互相支援啦！"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我跟您報告，當時在整個規劃當中，包括賴副總統的想法也是，一定要把苗栗放進來，不然就不會叫做桃竹苗大矽谷，我們一直覺得苗栗在未來是很有發展的潛力，所以把它納進來。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為這樣啦，目前我們看到的計畫當然都是集中在竹南、頭份，但是對於苗栗縣整個來講，苗南地區我也希望院長能一併考量進去，苗南的發展也相當重要，因為南邊還有一個銅鑼科學園區，如果那邊也擴編的話，當然也是可以考量，在這邊本席建議，希望我們國發會跟行政院這邊能夠積極的來處理這件事情，好嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是，委員您看，我剛才提到互相支援，像鯉魚潭的水也是從南部送到苗栗去，所以互相支援可以讓地方一定夠啦！"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啦，不要虧待苗栗，好不好？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為苗栗真的是為地方……"],["陳院長建仁：好，絕對不會。"],["邱委員鎮軍：苗栗有5個水庫，其實它限制非常多，發展也非常的困難，我希望我們的院長跟國發會這邊能夠一併來考量。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：謝謝。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，我的第二題要請王美花部長。"],["主席：麻煩請經濟部備詢。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長好。我今天看到新聞有點名，數發部長唐鳳、交通部長王國材、經濟部長王美花及前農業部長陳吉仲被認為是我們執政當局的四大破口，您自己覺得呢？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有，我想這是捕風捉影啦！"],["邱委員鎮軍：沒有，我問部長啦，好不好？部長，您覺得您是破口嗎？"],["王部長美花：我想對我來說，我是一個非常資深的公務員，任職超過四十幾年了，我每天就是努力把事情做好，對我來說，怎麼樣對臺灣的經濟能做的更有韌性，讓臺灣在全世界越來越重要，這是我一直在思考的問題。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好啦，希望部長認真啦，認真一點來執行所有的業務。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：當然也不要變成我們賴清德總統的絆腳石，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：她不會啦，她是最好的幫手啦！"],["邱委員鎮軍：可是在本席看來，我們看到4月份電價要調漲，部長是覺得這個破口不夠大還是怎麼樣？"],["王部長美花：事實上，一直以來國際燃料成本的大幅上漲確實造成台電的虧損，在過去這一、二年台電已經吸收了非常多的成本，現在主要就是每一年我們當然會優先去爭取政府資金跟補助……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看到也知道我們台電目前虧損是94%，虧損已經達94%了，我看到我們這一次的調升是330度以下的民生用電的部分，我有推算過，120度以下用電調漲每個月大概9塊錢，382萬戶，我計算了一下，一年多收4億；121度到330度的用戶一樣調漲5%，全臺有526萬戶，一年多收21.5億，也就是說，這一波調整電價大概能為台電多收25億，是這樣吧？"],["王部長美花：有關電價的調漲公式目前都在電價小組裡面在討論當中……"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為我算出來的這個數字不是很多，我們為什麼要去做這件事情，我就覺得很奇怪，相對於一些用電的大戶，譬如一些特高壓用電大戶，我們應該要針對這個部分，或者我們以前，像台電去年花了900億購買綠電，這個部分如果在電價這邊節省一點是不是更有效果？"],["王部長美花：綠電的部分事實上現在已經逐漸，綠電原來讓台電躉購的部分，目前其實都會讓綠電直接賣給用戶，因為臺灣的大用戶也需要綠電，所以這個趨勢是我們把綠電產業做起來，把綠電的環境做起來，但是之後就會慢慢直接賣給企業，不用由台電來收購、躉購，這是綠電發展過程中一定要的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這個部分我當然也瞭解，所以本席還是希望並建議行政院、經濟部這邊能多體恤一下民眾，一般民眾、臺灣民眾，因為這一波調漲電價讓本席覺得有一點劫貧濟富的感覺。"],["陳院長建仁：委員，這個我來回答一下，可以嗎？"],["邱委員鎮軍：好。"],["陳院長建仁：基本上這一次的電價調整，當然要看電價審議委員會的審議結果，但是我們也會給它提供一些意見，這個意見就是我們做很精緻的調整，譬如說這個產業在發達的過程當中，那我們可能就會加的比較多一點，如果這個產業目前還在蕭條的情況下，就會加的少一點；那民間的用電，也是會按照它的用電量來做很精細的調整。以往在2022年、2023年我們調整8%、11%的時候，也都是用這樣很精緻的調整，所以當時確實對物價的影響會下降，不會造成通膨……"],["邱委員鎮軍：現在的重點不是在於漲不漲電價這個事情，其實我們更關心的是通膨的問題，你知道漲一度電會增加多少通膨嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：所以我們才會盡量的讓電價的調整不要像國外那樣，國外都是一次就漲足，然後政府再補貼那個漲的幅度……"],["邱委員鎮軍：這個其實就是以前，我覺得是民進黨執政以來一開始就開始凍漲，對不對？電費就已經凍漲了，所以一直撐到現在才會有這樣的一個結果。為什麼以前不調，為什麼這次選舉完要調，你可以做一個解釋嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：好。我跟委員報告一下，為什麼現在後面這段時間才調，就是俄烏戰爭以後，全球燃料的價錢大量的增加，燃料價格大量增加才造成了台電3,800億的虧損，如果再加上今年有1,800億的話，這都是燃料的費用喔，如果這樣可以到達五千多億。所以實際上並不是說後面才來調，後面調的原因就是天有不測風雲，剛好這一段期間燃料費用增加，我們才會在這一段期間做大幅度的調整。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那我們物價穩定小組有準備了嗎？有沒有因應這件事情做好準備？"],["陳院長建仁：對，有關物價這部分，我們有考慮電價跟物價可能的連動情況，好讓它能夠不要影響CPI的上升。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那你具體的作法，現在出來了沒有？"],["陳院長建仁：現在還是要讓審議委員會來討論。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你儘快來準備，好不好？然後好的時候給本席資料。"],["陳院長建仁：不過委員您關心的不要引起通膨的問題，然後一定要幫助比較弱勢的民眾，這些建議我們都會請審議委員會來考慮。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那我這樣講啦，你把資料做好，然後再給我，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：不要像這次蘇丹紅的事情一樣，出了事情再來解決，我想這是非常不負責任的。當然啦，我們也懷疑其實這次漲電價，我們陳院長算是看守內閣，是不是在520之前我們要幫新政府排除路障，然後背鍋、下臺，是不是有這個政治的考量？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有啦，我們現在最主要的任務就是要讓現在的內閣跟以後的內閣無縫接軌，一起來做好福國利民的工作。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員鎮軍的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢，邱委員所索取的資料，麻煩請行政部門逕付邱委員辦公室。","接下來我們請登記第3位蘇委員清泉質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":184,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","麥玉珍","范雲","陳玉珍","謝龍介","吳沛憶","李彥秀","馬文君","李坤城","沈伯洋","張雅琳","吳宗憲","徐巧芯","陳永康","楊曜","陳俊宇","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","劉建國","張嘉郡","陳超明","陳秀寳"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2024-03-12"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00004","1130601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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規劃,還有環評當中。那另外我在這邊建議,我不知道院長有沒有發現,我們全台灣所有的東西像道路,只有我們苗栗沒有接到國道,那其實兩邊是很近的,那我希望這一次能夠列入一併的考量,大家來做研議好不好?因為今天我們交通"},{"start":388.729,"end":391.071,"text":"我看到我們整個計畫不論是在桃園或者是新竹"},{"start":411.91,"end":413.271,"text":"我跟您報告就是說當時在整個規劃當中包括"},{"start":433.655,"end":434.236,"text":"因為南邊我們還有一個這個銅鑼科學園區"},{"start":461.237,"end":466.62,"text":"我剛才提到互相支援,像鯉魚潭的水也是從南部送到苗栗去,所以互相的有支援可以讓地方一定夠。"},{"start":482.837,"end":505.103,"text":"不要虧待苗栗啦好不好,因為苗栗真的是為地方,苗栗有5個水庫,其實他限制非常多,發展也非常的困難。那我希望我們的院長還有我們的國會這邊能夠一併的來考量。謝謝。那另外我們第二題,我們請我們的王美花部長。麻煩請經濟部備席。"},{"start":511.743,"end":525.372,"text":"部長好,我今天看到新聞有點名,我們速發部的部長唐鳳,交通部我們的王國才,經濟部長王美花,以及前農業部長陳吉仲。"},{"start":528.069,"end":529.05,"text":"我每天就是努力把事情做好。"},{"start":548.26,"end":577.12,"text":"那我想對我來說對台灣怎麼樣台灣的經濟做得更有韌性讓台灣在全世界越來越重要這個是我一直在思考的問題希望部長認真認真一點來執行所有的這個業務那當然不要變成我們賴清德總統的這個絆腳石可以嗎他不會啦他是最好的幫手啦可是在我本席看來我們看到4月份電價要調漲"},{"start":578.896,"end":582.653,"text":"那我覺得部長是覺得這個破口不夠大還是怎麼樣?"},{"start":583.641,"end":606.726,"text":"事實上一直以來這個國際的燃料成本的大幅上漲確實是造成台電的虧損那事實上在過去這一兩年台電已經吸收了非常多的一個成本現在主要就是說這樣的一個每一年我們當然優先都爭取政府的這個資金跟補助我看到了我也知道我們台電現在目前虧損是94%了"},{"start":610.527,"end":618.19,"text":"我看到我們這一次調升這個是330度以下的民生用電部分那我有推算過120度以下用電調漲那每個月大概是9塊錢那382萬戶我換算下來一年多收了4億那121度到330度"},{"start":635.196,"end":651.391,"text":"議員"},{"start":651.793,"end":677.671,"text":"所有的這個電價怎麼調漲的公式目前都在電價小組裡面工作室還在討論當中因為我算到這個數字不是很多我們為什麼要去做這件事情我就覺得很奇怪那相對於一些用電的大戶比如說一些我們高壓那個特高壓用電的一些大戶這些我們應該要針對這個部分或者我們以前"},{"start":679.536,"end":682.659,"text":"臺電我們去年花了900億來購買綠電,這個部分你如果電價這邊來節省一點是不是更有效果?"},{"start":689.377,"end":695.641,"text":"綠電的部分事實上現在已經逐漸的那個綠電原來賺購讓台電來賺購的部分目前其實已經都會讓他綠電直接賣給這個用戶因為臺灣的這個大用戶也需要綠電所以這個趨勢呢我們把綠電的產業做起來綠電的環境做起來但是之後就會慢慢去直接賣給這個企業不用由台電來收購來賺購那所以這個是綠電發展過程當一定要的"},{"start":718.763,"end":719.984,"text":"基本上我們這一次的電價調整當然要看電價審議委員會來做"},{"start":747.79,"end":759.684,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":759.961,"end":786.802,"text":"目前還在蕭條的情況下就會加的少一點那民間的用電也是按照他的用電量會來做很精細的調整那以往在2022年2023年的時候我們調整8%11%的時候也都是用這樣很精緻的調整所以當時呢確實是物價的影響會下降啦我們現在的重點不是在於漲不漲電價這個事情其實我們更關心的是通膨的問題"},{"start":787.823,"end":808.56,"text":"你知道漲一度電會增加多少通貨嗎?所以我們才會盡量的讓這個電價的調整不要像國外,國外都是一次就漲足,然後政府再補貼那個漲足的不足。其實這是以前我覺得是民進黨執政以來一開始就開始動漲了,對不對?"},{"start":811.476,"end":813.757,"text":"為什麼現在後面這段時間才調,就是俄烏戰爭以後全球的染料價錢大量的增加,這個大量增加才造成台電3800億的"},{"start":835.128,"end":853.217,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":853.297,"end":853.457,"text":"現在還是要讓審議委員會來討論"},{"start":874.473,"end":902.106,"text":"你盡快來準備好不好,然後好的時候給本席資料。不過委員您關心的這個不要引起通膨的問題,然後呢一定要來幫助這個比較弱勢的這一些,我們都會請這個審議委員會來考慮啦。那我這樣講啦齁,你把資料做好,然後再給我好不好。是。不要像這次蘇丹紅的事情一樣,出了事情再來解決啊,我想這個是非常不負責任的齁。"},{"start":903.595,"end":924.12,"text":"當然我們也有懷疑,其實這是漲電價,當然我們陳院長算是看守內閣,那是不是在520之前我們要幫新政府排除路障,然後背鍋,然後下台,是不是有這個政治的考量?沒有。"},{"start":934.564,"end":943.351,"text":"謝謝邱委員鄭軍的質詢也謝謝陳院長的備詢麻煩請行政部門邱委員所所取的資料進赴邱委員辦公室接下來我們請登記第三位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}