{"error":false,"id":["149743"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149743,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149743","日期":"2024-03-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-13T09:40:15+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-13T09:48:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:21","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903ae8253fbab0ff90e14b75c67118f492bf8ba9b0039caa7a68cba3367f770e7f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"09:40:15 - 09:48:36","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":450,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（9時40分）我們有請部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，我請問一下，上週本席才關心過我們勞保2028破產的問題，我這幾天又看到頭版，我們勞保精算出負債13兆465億，我也看了您的業務報告，這裡面有提及賡續研議勞工保險財務危機改善因應對策，這句話是什麼意思？有做什麼準備嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個13兆是潛藏的債務，不是說立即會發生，但是勞保的財務問題的確是要去面對也要去處理。不過，主要是它牽涉的層面很廣，光勞工的部分就1,000萬人，還有60萬投保單位……"],["邱委員鎮軍：不是，我想問的是，你這個對策是什麼？"],["許部長銘春：我們的對策，第一個，報告委員，我們現在當然就是費率的調整，我們每2年調一次，還有保費的收取也要強化，另外，我們的給付審核要確實。"],["邱委員鎮軍：從部長上任……"],["許部長銘春：另外就是撥補，報告委員，撥補的部分是目前各界有共識的，所以這部分我們先做，所以從2020到現在編列了……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你一直撥補，錢從哪裡來？"],["許部長銘春：就是政府編列公務預算撥補，另外還有一個特別預算。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得你們應該要有一個好的政策、方案出來，你這樣用撥補的方式，永遠都是在撥補，那要補到什麼時候？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，其實調整的方向不會只有撥補這個部分，當然還有其他面向要來處理。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為這個問題已經講了很久，我們到現在還沒有看到一個具體的作法，如果只是說我們會研議改善因應對策，講了那麼久，所謂的政策是什麼？我希望部長這邊給我一個明確的說明好嗎？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：目前看起來只是暫時不會餓死，也不會馬上爆發，但是長久下來，這個問題還是存在的，部長認同我的說法嗎？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那是不是我們應該趁這個時候還有時間，我們儘快來處理這個問題？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個問題是一定要處理啦！不過就是我剛剛講的，這是一個滿複雜的工程……"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為2039年以後……"],["許部長銘春：包括各個勞資團體，包括各政黨，對於調整的方向、調整的面向，可能大家還是要有一些溝通，然後有一定的共識，這樣要推可能會比較順利。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為我看到這個報告，勞動部自己精算過，2039年以後，勞保將會達到給付的高峰，每年都要給付超過1兆，而且連續30年，你認為我們勞保不會破產嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，財務的問題的確就是要去面對，但是這個也是政府辦的保險，政府一定會負起給付的責任，不過，財務的問題一定要先解決，當然我剛剛講了，目前撥補只是先踏出第一步而已，其他的面向還要去做檢討。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以部長一直講說撥補、撥補，撥補就是我們的一種改革是嗎？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：撥補怎麼會是改革呢？"],["許部長銘春：撥補是調整的面向之一，因為我們本來、原來、歷來對勞保財務的改革方案裡面，其實都有四個面向，一個是費率的部分是不是要調整，第二個，平均薪資的採計期間是不是要拉長，還有年金的給付率要不要調整，第四個就是撥補，所以政府的撥補在所有的討論是一定要做的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那你覺得撥補要補多少才會平衡？"],["許部長銘春：當然這個要看整個基金的餘額狀況還有政府的財政狀況……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我這樣講啦！我目前聽到的都是非常籠統的，希望部長這邊能夠有一個具體的說法跟做法，什麼時候可以給我資料？"],["許部長銘春：我們1個月內提個報告給您。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好。再來，第二個問題，明揚大火燒出了很多問題，去年9月，我們部長也承諾1個月決議是不是要收回我們產業園區的勞檢權，後來鄒署長也說涉及的範圍很廣，還是要跨部會討論，大概今年初會進一步討論，目前的進度在哪裡？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個行政院有邀集相關部會討論過了，目前是還沒有決定收回的這件事情，但是有要求督導的機制要更確實，然後有關於各單位、這些被授權的各園區的管理單位要提出相關精進作為的報告，強化相關的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那我這樣講，如果要收回勞安檢查權，勞動部有沒有盤點過需要修改的法規有多少？"],["許部長銘春：很多，非常多。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那會不會有困難？"],["許部長銘春：我請署長說明一下。"],["鄒署長子廉：謝謝委員，其實現在比較大的困難是，科管局就是原來經加區的設置條例裡面有勞工的事務、事項，當初在54年設置的時候法規就有授權，所以要修它的組織法才有可能做進一步的盤整。但是我跟委員報告，在整個勞檢機制，現在科管局就是我們原來經加區，它有16個檢查員，檢查員的訓練、管考還有執行方式都是我們中央統一來做一些管制，不會因為……"],["邱委員鎮軍：好啦！我希望勞動部能夠積極一點，該收回就要收回，或者是採取合作的模式，研議具有可行性的方案來確保我們產業園區和科學園區裡面的工業安全衛生，這樣可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那我再問，我們非典型勞工要加以保障，這個問題跟訴求其實已經很多年了，我們的賴清德準總統也說過，面對臺灣非典型勞工占比已經達到15%了，要強化非典型勞工在薪資、工時、休假、保障等基本勞動權利，給予更周延的保障，部長這邊有討論過這個問題嗎？"],["許部長銘春：有關於非典勞工，尤其像外送員部分的權益保障，其實一直也是勞動部非常關注的工作、重點，這個部分在勞動部，首要從他的權益、安全，還有他的薪酬權益的保障，還有包括他的保險，我們從這三方面去做一些規劃，我們也建置他們外送平臺跟外送員的對話平臺，有時候發生……"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為時間好像也不太夠，本席認為我們外送員等非典型勞工已經成為新的一種工作型態，對他們的勞動權益保障，我們政府應該走在前面，而不是繼續放任沒有作為，這樣是不對的，希望勞動部在一週之內針對這個問題提供本席相關的具體作為及辦理進度，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：謝謝部長。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["主席（王委員正旭代）：謝謝邱鎮軍委員的質詢，謝謝部長。","下一位我們請黃秀芳委員質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-5","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","楊曜","王育敏","李坤城","林淑芬","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李彥秀","羅智強","牛煦庭","劉建國","王鴻薇","張雅琳","黃仁","吳春城","陳瑩","廖偉翔","林德福","葉元之"],"page_start":193,"meetingDate":["2024-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1131301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131301_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.379718750000002,"end":10.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.965968750000002,"end":11.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.539093750000003,"end":18.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.52596875,"end":23.774093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.774093750000002,"end":24.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.21284375,"end":26.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.96346875,"end":31.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.722218750000003,"end":34.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.979093750000004,"end":39.400343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.17659375,"end":41.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.712218750000005,"end":42.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.74159375,"end":43.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.580968750000004,"end":45.829718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.133468750000006,"end":46.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.555343750000006,"end":69.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.45784375,"end":49.727843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.727843750000005,"end":49.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.25221875,"end":69.89346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.89346875000001,"end":69.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.96096875,"end":71.19284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.19284375000001,"end":71.20971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.20971875000001,"end":71.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.47971875,"end":83.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.66346875,"end":86.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.63346875,"end":89.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAK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