{"error":false,"id":["149765"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149765,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149765","日期":"2024-03-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-13T10:28:01+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-13T10:37:21+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:20","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b690359e446cc9cc215c933e530803e447454f8ba9b0039caa7a6d6e9e66fec18c7355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"10:28:01 - 10:37:21","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":417,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時28分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席（陳委員亭妃代）：請部長。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：水利法第七十八條河川區域內，沒有提到不得私有，沒有規定土地不得私有；第七十八條之一一樣沒有規定不得私有；水利法第七十八條之二也沒有規定不得私有；水利法第八十二條對於「水道治理計畫線或用地範圍線內之土地」，也沒有規定不得私有；水利法只有第八十三條有規定，「尋常洪水位行水區域之土地，……，其原為公有者，不得移轉為私有」，已為私有者可以徵收，只有水利法第八十三條規定，尋常洪水位不得私有，這個讓部長瞭解一下。最靠近河流的就是水利法第八十三條的尋常洪水位行水區域，然後未來要蓋堤防的地方要用水利法第八十二條的治理線及用地範圍線，然後最外面的就是河川區域線。","土地法第十四條第一項第三款，過去一直到現在，水利法第八十二條跟第七十八條之二，都是依據土地法第十四條第一項的第三款。土地法第十四條第一項的第三款對於「可通運之水道」，戴秀雄教授認為引用這個是錯誤的，因為臺灣並沒有「可通運之水道」。「可通運之水道」要能夠讓輪船可以通運，但臺灣沒有。","原住民族基本法第二十條規定，政府承認原住民族土地的權利，因為這條原基法的條文，內政部也就是土地法的主管機關，對土地法第十四條第一項各款規定，不得私有的劃定原則做了修正，在105年12月做了修正。土地法第十四條第一項各款規定不得私有土地，「但原住民申請經公產管理機關同意配合提供增、劃編原住民保留地者」可以，但是到目前為止，水利署都不願意，尤其是「已奉核定增、劃編為原住民保留地者」。讓部長瞭解增、劃編原住民保留地的核定者是誰，是行政院核定喔！行政院已經核定了，水利署依然不同意；然後「已設定耕作權、地上權或農育權之原住民保留地者」，會設定耕作權、地上權的也就是經過行政院核定的，核定之後，這塊土地核定為原住民保留地，然後才設定耕作權、地上權。都已經設定耕作權、地上權了水利署到現在都還是不願意，所以這個部分，這裡面已經「應排除劃入不得私有土地範圍」，這不是我規定的而是內政部，針對土地法第十四條所定的劃定原則，所以這個要請部長作決定，因為部長是學法律的，水利署不是學法律的，他們只考慮到工程啦！他們考量的是工程，想替人民省錢啦！為什麼呢？這個106年8月1號水利署的公文，我們看下面的最後那兩句話「依『未來治理所需之範圍』認定，並依原基法規定辦理」。","我們就看到這條線，現在的狀況，治理線有的地方還沒有蓋堤防，所以水利署那張公文是說依未來治理所需之範圍，這個我們還可以稍微容忍一下，我跟署長講過了。但是堤防已經蓋好了，到河川區域線中間的，依法都應該增、劃編為原住民保留地，但是水利署我也不知道什麼原因，也講不出個所以然，堤防已經蓋很久了，甚至已經有耕作權了，行政院已經核定為增、劃編保留地了，部長可以嗎？依法行政啊！就依內政部，它是主管機關，可以嗎？"],["王部長美花：土地法是一般法，委員也知道相關水利法的部分有更細膩的規定，像委員講的第七十八條、第八十二條、第八十三條，哪一些有沒有什麼例外的可行性，我再跟水利署討論一下。"],["鄭天財Sra 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