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10:19:10","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算凍結書面報告案計2案。(一)海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送該會決議（一）「海洋業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送海洋保育署決議（一）「海洋保育業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。二、邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。三、審查海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送海巡署及所屬決議（一）「海巡業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。四、「海洋保育法草案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「海洋保育法草案」案。(二)審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":791,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（10時10分）謝謝主席，我們有請海委會主委。"],["主席：好，請主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：黃委員好。"],["黃委員建賓：主委早安。我今天要講的重點就是支持海保法，要綻放臺東藍。臺東其實是全臺灣……"],["管主任委員碧玲：美麗的海洋。"],["黃委員建賓：是全臺灣接觸海面積最多的縣市，因為我們的整個海岸線從南到北有169公里，還包括蘭嶼跟綠島兩個，在臺灣的縣市裡面，接觸海的面積加起來是最大的。我要講到海洋保護這件事情，主委知道去年12月的時候，臺東外海發生油污污染事件嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，綠島。"],["黃委員建賓：主委知道這件事情嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：綠島柚子湖這一件案子。"],["黃委員建賓：對，柚子湖這一件案子。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們處置了超過1個月，而且非常廣泛的用各種偵監系統還有海流的模擬，鎖定可能的船舶，但是因為它在污染的過程，我們衛星的掃描沒有掃到污染當下的影像，所以沒有辦法有足夠的證據連結。未來被我們鎖定的船舶只要再經過我國海域，我們一定全程注偵，會全程監控。另外，在這一次油污處理的過程之中，所有應該再增加的各種準備，經過這一次以後，未來有關於海洋污染防治所需資材的配置，我們也要重新補充。"],["黃委員建賓：對，我聽說整個搶救過程異常艱辛，因為整個綠島的地形很特別。"],["管主任委員碧玲：都用手工挖除。"],["黃委員建賓：它是礁岩，臺東縣環保局跟一些志工用手工一勺一勺在那個坑洞這樣挖。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，非常辛苦。"],["黃委員建賓：連油污棉都沒辦法使用。"],["管主任委員碧玲：包括我們海巡的弟兄都下去一起以手工除污，我真的要非常感謝這麼多志工一起愛護、守護我們的海洋，這件事情真的非常……而且那時候氣候也很冷。"],["黃委員建賓：現在還有一部分沒處理完，後續怎麼處理？"],["管主任委員碧玲：最後有兩個地方，一方面海象不好的時候，依它的位置，如果下去處理就會有危險性，那些部分會比較拖時間。但是據我所知……"],["黃委員建賓：所以本席要問接下來後續怎麼處理，楠仔湖那個部分你們怎麼處理？"],["管主任委員碧玲：剩下最後這幾個地方。"],["黃委員建賓：楠仔湖那一段。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，它主要就是受地形影響，我們儘快突破，好不好？我們答應委員儘快突破。真的是地形的影響，包括人員的安全也是我們必須顧慮的。"],["黃委員建賓：你知道臺東外海發生這件事情，油污可能不只在臺東縣。"],["管主任委員碧玲：不只。"],["黃委員建賓：它會隨著洋流飄到其他地方，甚至到宜蘭都有可能。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，東北海域也有。"],["黃委員建賓：都會中。"],["管主任委員碧玲：中部海域也有，整個其實有二十幾個點，全部的海域下來，我們實在非常痛恨這一次這樣的污染行為。"],["黃委員建賓：主委，我們都希望能夠根絕這樣的事情發生。海保署一年編列的海洋油污處理預算大概是多少？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們大概是2億多，請署長來說明。"],["黃署長向文：基本上針對剛剛提到海污的應變資材、各項演練跟訓練總計大概2億元左右，包括補助地方政府跟海保署自辦。"],["黃委員建賓：對於臺東縣政府，你一年補助多少？"],["管主任委員碧玲：各縣市政府的數字，我們會後給委員，好不好？"],["黃委員建賓：好。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們很鼓勵地方提案，所以地方的提案我們多數都予以支持。"],["黃委員建賓：主委，是這樣啦，我們臺灣是一個四面環海的海洋國家，平常沒事都沒事，一旦出事這些經費都不夠用，主委認同這一點，對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們從今年開始會有海污費的收入來挹注這一塊。"],["黃委員建賓：就像本席說的，我們要持續的綻放臺東藍，臺東藍是太平洋那個藍。"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，今年是926萬。"],["黃委員建賓：169公里再加兩個離島，這樣夠嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：地方政府的提案我們多數都會支持。"],["黃委員建賓：好，謝謝主委，這邊要請主委要多多支持地方，讓我們地方有足夠的資源去做海洋保育的工作。"],["管主任委員碧玲：好。"],["黃委員建賓：第二件事情就是我來自臺東，我是在海邊長大的小孩，我是在太平洋長大的小孩。"],["管主任委員碧玲：恭喜你。"],["黃委員建賓：大海其實就是我們日常的一部分，所以我支持海洋保育這件事情，我絕對支持。"],["管主任委員碧玲：謝謝。"],["黃委員建賓：同時我也是阿美族的女婿，海洋對阿美族來講是一個神聖的地方，所以我們相信大家都支持海洋法的推動。不過我相信在海洋保育推動的同時，經濟也要兼顧。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["黃委員建賓：經濟跟環境不能是零和遊戲，一定要雙贏，我們過分的去保護環境，沒有經濟行為，就失去了人文，如果沒有保護環境，就會失去環境跟經濟，我想二者是要共贏的，所以我想海保法的推動要依據上述的精神來規劃、討論。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，謝謝。"],["黃委員建賓：跟所有海洋相關產業一起來討論，我們來創造雙贏。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們審議會就是這樣，謝謝委員的指導。我們審議會就是把所有用海利害關係單位都放進來，成為決策者，而不是列席或來表達意見而已，他們就是決策者。審議會這個機制就是所有用海的利害關係的各方都會在審議會裡面一起形成共識，才有可能劃設，這是我們的第一個機制。第二個機制是信賴保護機制，現在所得到的開發許可或漁業權，在保護區劃設之前核准的都會得到信賴保護。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝主委，我相信大家都有一個共識，就是這片海是我們的家，我們沒有人會把家弄亂。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，是我們的母親。"],["黃委員建賓：所以我們希望它往好的地方來發展，在此也希望主委能夠就剛剛本席提到的臺東縣政府處理的經費多加挹注，讓我們共同來守護這片海洋。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們來跟地方政府聯絡，因為地方政府要執行這些預算，所以這個是由下而上。"],["黃委員建賓：中央執行也可以，我只是說要多編一些預算在這個地方。"],["管主任委員碧玲：用在臺東，我瞭解。"],["黃委員建賓：因為它這個航線很特別啊，綠島跟蘭嶼外海就是國際商船的航線，發生漏油事件已經不是第一次了，所以這部分除了要預防以外，我想也要多編列相關預算來面對以後海洋污染的問題，儘早來處理，這樣好嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們會研議。"],["黃委員建賓：好，謝謝主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃建賓委員的質詢。","下一位請高金素梅委員，高金素梅、高金素梅、高金素梅召委不在。","下一位請黃捷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-6","speakers":["吳琪銘","王美惠","徐欣瑩","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃建賓","黃捷","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra 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113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n海巡署及所屬決議(一)「海巡業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案；四、「海洋保育法草\n案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「海洋保育法草案」案、(二)審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「海洋\n保育法草案」案","agenda_id":"1131101_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.30096875,"end":1.3134687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.4822187500000001,"end":3.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.57471875,"end":4.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.52284375,"end":12.130343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.73784375,"end":13.244093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.649093750000002,"end":13.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.93596875,"end":13.952843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.952843750000003,"end":13.969718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.969718750000002,"end":15.184718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.657218750000002,"end":17.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.395343750000002,"end":18.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.09971875,"end":20.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.394718750000003,"end":23.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.65596875,"end":24.297218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.58409375,"end":25.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.91721875,"end":28.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.144718750000003,"end":28.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.16159375,"end":28.684718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.684718750000002,"end":36.244718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.53159375,"end":40.547843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.070968750000006,"end":43.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.80846875,"end":51.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.98909375,"end":52.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.02284375,"end":52.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.13221875,"end":54.773468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.84096875,"end":54.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.85784375,"end":56.815343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.195343750000006,"end":60.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.83221875,"end":57.119093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.16971875,"end":58.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.641593750000006,"end":78.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.03971875,"end":82.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.10659375,"end":86.36346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.58284375000001,"end":89.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.31221875,"end":99.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.47534375000001,"end":133.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.80346875,"end":133.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.83284375,"end":134.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.25034375,"end":137.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.62971875,"end":141.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.39284375,"end":144.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.61221875,"end":143.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.92409375,"end":151.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.38346875000002,"end":147.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.31159375000001,"end":148.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.41284375,"end":148.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.48034375,"end":148.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.64909375000002,"end":149.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.65721875,"end":155.36534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.45846875,"end":154.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.71971875,"end":162.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.68096875,"end":160.91721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.03096875,"end":162.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.18284375000002,"end":166.40159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.61284375000002,"end":167.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.47721875000002,"end":170.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.62909375,"end":182.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.92346875,"end":175.29471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.93534375000002,"end":180.34034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.07846875,"end":186.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.51721875,"end":183.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.95159375,"end":183.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.34346875,"end":190.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.58784375000002,"end":191.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.88721875000002,"end":192.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.74346875,"end":203.39159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.76284375,"end":209.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.82971875,"end":216.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.44971875000002,"end":209.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.68596875,"end":210.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","star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海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算凍結50萬元書面報告案。 海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算凍結50萬元書面報告案。 海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算凍結50萬元書面報告案。"},{"start":216.954,"end":219.676,"text":"海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會函．為113年度"},{"start":247.533,"end":265.272,"text":"這署長嗎?我們大概是2億多,我們請署長來說明。基本上針對剛提到海烏的應變資材各項演練跟訓練總計大概2億元左右,那包括補助地方政府跟海保署自辦。要補助地方政府,那臺灣縣政府你一年補助多少?"},{"start":269.516,"end":291.565,"text":"各縣市政府的數字目前我們會後給委員好不好我們很鼓勵地方提案所以地方的提案我們多數都予以支持所以是這樣子我們台灣台灣是一個四面環海的海洋國家不用寫沒事都沒事出事的時候這件事都沒救營主委認同這件對不對我們從今年開始會有海烏費的收入來挹注這一塊"},{"start":297.95,"end":316.132,"text":"就像本席說的我們要我們要持續的綻放臺東藍臺東藍是那個太平洋那個藍是926萬是926萬一百六十九公里再加兩個離島這可能是地方政府我們地方政府的提案我們多數都會支持"},{"start":317.593,"end":331.92,"text":"主委這邊要請主委要多多的支持地方讓我們地方有足夠的資源去做海洋保育的工作那第二件事情就是說主委我是來自台東我在海邊長大的小孩我在海邊長大的小孩恭喜"},{"start":334.401,"end":355.011,"text":"大海其實就是我們日常的一部分所以我支持海洋保育這件事情我同時也是阿美族的女婿海洋對阿美族來講是一個神聖的地方所以我們相信大家都支持海洋法的推動不過其實我相信在海洋保育推動的同時經濟其實它也是要去兼顧到的"},{"start":356.741,"end":362.926,"text":"海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府函．為113年度中央政府函．為113年度中央政府函"},{"start":378.917,"end":385.724,"text":"海洋法的推動要依據上述的精神來規劃來討論跟所有跟海洋相關的產業一起來討論我們來創造雙贏我們審議會就是這樣謝謝委員的指導那我們審議會就是把所有用海利害關係單位都放進來成為決策者而不是那個練習啦或者是來表達意見而已"},{"start":399.858,"end":402.879,"text":"函．為113年度中央政府函．為113年度中央政府函．為113年度中央政府函．為113年度中央政府函．為113年度中央"},{"start":426.509,"end":446.823,"text":"現在所得到的開發的許可或者是漁業權將會在保護區劃設之前有核准的都會得到信賴保護。好,謝謝主委。我相信大家都會認,都有個共識就是海,這片海是我們的家。我們沒有人會把家弄亂。"},{"start":447.423,"end":449.944,"text":"海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算有關"},{"start":470.075,"end":470.856,"text":"海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算凍結50萬元書面報告案。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}