{"error":false,"id":["149782"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149782,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149782","日期":"2024-03-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-13T10:27:24+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-13T10:37:05+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:41","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903b9b7111ca3ef07f014015affd80140c0f8ba9b0039caa7a6c4e7b6cfcd426f665ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"10:27:24 - 10:37:05","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算凍結書面報告案計2案。(一)海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送該會決議（一）「海洋業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送海洋保育署決議（一）「海洋保育業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。二、邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。三、審查海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送海巡署及所屬決議（一）「海巡業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。四、「海洋保育法草案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「海洋保育法草案」案。(二)審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":877,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（10時27分）主席，請主委。"],["主席：請管主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：王委員好。"],["王委員美惠：主委早。本席在這裡要先跟你探討3月6日在苗栗外海發生的事情，你知不知道這個狀況？"],["管主任委員碧玲：有三艘大陸的船進來。"],["王委員美惠：對。"],["管主任委員碧玲：剛才我們的分署長有做說明，這部分我請分署長再說明得更完整一點，好不好？因為他剛才可能說的比較簡單。"],["王委員美惠：好。"],["王分署長正信：委員好。藉由這個機會來說清楚，媒體在問這件事情的時候是問有沒有進入6浬，但其實這三艘船進入12浬的時候，我們就監控了。"],["王委員美惠：你們有監控？你們知道？"],["王分署長正信：從頭到尾都有監控。"],["王委員美惠：所以你們是從頭到尾都有監控、都知道，不是外面所說的你們都不知道喔？"],["王分署長正信：我們都知道。在6浬的時候有漁民報案，但其實我們早上7點……"],["王委員美惠：不過我要跟你請教一下，如果你們都知道，為什麼漁民會報案？你們不是比漁民更早知道這個狀況嗎？"],["王分署長正信：我們早上7點在12浬就已經監控了，漁民在6浬是下午2點40分報案。"],["王委員美惠：你們是沒有作為還是怎樣？為什麼漁民會……"],["王分署長正信：我們有作為，我們馬上派出100噸的要出海，但到高美外海的時候海象太差，10級風真的很危險，按照我們的標準要由我來同意，我看錄影真的海象很差，所以請他們先回來，等海象好一點再馬上趕過去。"],["王委員美惠：當然啦！我們弟兄的安全要顧一下。"],["王分署長正信：因為船隻有不同的款式，漁船跟我們巡防艇的構造不同，安全係數不一樣。"],["王委員美惠：是不是我們派太小艘？人家那麼大一艘！"],["王分署長正信：同時我們也有通報艦隊分署。"],["王委員美惠：我現在是問你，船馬上退回來是因為風浪很大、很危險，是我們派的太小艘，而他們太大艘了？還是因為我們的狀況有所不同？"],["王分署長正信：我們也有通知在西北水域的宜蘭艦趕過來，那個時候宜蘭艦有在趕，它立刻南下，隔天它有趕走一艘，所以這個案子從頭到尾都在我們的監控當中。"],["王委員美惠：本席所瞭解的是就算我們有掌握，但他們也不怕，繼續在附近航行……"],["王分署長正信：不是這樣、不是這樣。"],["王委員美惠：不然你知道這些船何時離開我們的界線嗎？"],["王分署長正信：這三艘船中，有兩艘在隔天早上11點的時候，從大潭外海往西北離開、脫索；另外一艘往北部繼續走的時候，在早上六點多被宜蘭艦驅離，結果是這樣。"],["王委員美惠：本席認為他們在挑釁我們有沒有辦法驅離他們，不然照理來說，前一天我們已經掌握了，他還在那裡看你們的狀況，如果你們不來驅離的話，他可能還會繼續，所以他在那裡看你們的狀況，直到隔天早上才離開。"],["王分署長正信：我跟委員報告，這三艘船經我們的雷達控制及專業研判，有兩艘是4.8浬的速度，確實是在拖，另外一艘以10浬的速度往北，這是在航行，應該是避風經過。"],["王委員美惠：你剛才說雷達都有控制，不是像外面所說你們的雷達都壞了嗎？"],["王分署長正信：完全都在控制當中。"],["王委員美惠：據本席所知，外面傳說你們的雷達壞了，所以你們都不瞭解，任由他們在那裡航行等等，從12浬到6浬，這個範圍有一點可怕耶！"],["王分署長正信：都在控制當中，我們海巡署在全臺灣有67座雷達，原則上12浬都在我們的控制中。"],["王委員美惠：我認為我們要保護這些漁民、船隻的安全，但也不能讓他們「侵門踏戶」，還把魚都抓光，等到我們的漁民發現利益受到損害的時候，你們才發現，這樣就太慢了。這幾天雲林艦、臺北艦交船，這對我們有相當大的助益，所以你們要好好做，才會有能力讓他們知道臺灣有辦法保護臺灣的漁民，如果他們要越界到臺灣抓魚的話，我們會處理，不是不會處理的。主委，你有什麼要補充？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，總體來說，我真的也不敢說謊說我們百分之百都有辦法驅離，我也不敢這樣說……"],["王委員美惠：所以我們有進步的空間嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：尤其是東北季風的風浪，你看東北季風來的時候，很多澎湖的船隻都進來避風，對方也是進來避風的，像這種越界進來的，我們有處理的SOP。這次在苗栗的事情，在臨時調度的時候偶爾會有這樣的案例出現是對的，但我們要更精進以避免、減少這種狀況。剛才說的數據是29艘，但是他們剛才查到今年有22艘船要交船，也就是我們造新船的速度很快，一直在造船，我們也爭取了很多人，我們的海巡增加六百多個人……"],["王委員美惠：還有我們的無人機都去支援。"],["管主任委員碧玲：如果風大的話，無人機也沒辦法出去，所以我們種種都很努力，以今年來說，我昨天拿到的數字是前天的數據，那就是我們今年已經趕走349艘了，也就是大陸的船進來後我們已經趕走349艘。"],["王委員美惠：主委，我會跟你們討論這件事情，就是我覺得雖然他們有不好的地方，但是你們去驅離的時候看到天氣不好就撤退，我們也要顧慮對方的安全，這是人道啦！"],["管主任委員碧玲：這是顧慮到安全，對方也確實有安全的問題。"],["王委員美惠：因為你我都一樣，我們也想要有好鄰居，但如果我們趕走他們，結果他們又軟土深掘，這樣就不值得被人尊重了，這是最重要的。主委，我覺得……"],["管主任委員碧玲：多數我們趕，他們會走；少數真的有比較傷害我們的……"],["王委員美惠：對啦！因為傷害我們，我們還是要保護我們的人……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們的弟兄有3根手指頭斷掉的。"],["王委員美惠：我們弟兄的安全，我們也要照顧啦！因為發生之前那件事情的時候，我覺得大家都不願意看到發生這樣的事情。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，都很難過。"],["王委員美惠：我們跟他們無冤無仇，我們也不知道他們是什麼人，我們絕對不會說，說比較不禮貌一點，我們不會去害死人，事情發生就發生了，要怎樣把傷害降到最低，所以我們有進步的空間，本席在上個會期也曾經說過我們的族群問題要攤開，實施的問題及安全性都要兼顧，所以在這裡面你們也有改善很多。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["王委員美惠：不過，本席在這裡要提議，每一個人都有一支手機，我們可能要有app來處理、使用，所有過程可以公開及安全性，大家才會比較清楚，因為也不要說只有族群那些問題，如果有app，我們還可以做得更好，因為時間的問題，我們也沒辦法，會後再請……"],["管主任委員碧玲：另外私下再請委員指導。"],["王委員美惠：私下我們再來討論，因為很多我們要修法的時候，希望修法之後可以更好，本席所瞭解，5年才檢討一次，我會覺得有時候發生事情，我們也要及時去討論，不是硬要5年再討論，所以……"],["管主任委員碧玲：好，有，我們有……"],["王委員美惠：這要互相去溝通，修法要修完整一點，保障好一點，不要讓人感到怨嘆，以上。"],["管主任委員碧玲：謝謝，感謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，王美惠委員質詢。"],["主席（王委員美惠代）：謝謝，感謝，請吳琪銘召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-6","speakers":["吳琪銘","王美惠","徐欣瑩","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃建賓","黃捷","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra 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113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n海巡署及所屬決議(一)「海巡業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案；四、「海洋保育法草\n案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「海洋保育法草案」案、(二)審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「海洋\n保育法草案」案","agenda_id":"1131101_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.25034375000000003,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.09409375,"end":3.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.03471875,"end":3.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.476593750000003,"end":10.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.915343750000002,"end":17.024093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.98284375,"end":11.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.04096875,"end":18.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.72846875,"end":21.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.89721875,"end":19.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.90971875,"end":20.449718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.02346875,"end":21.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.32721875,"end":21.816593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.816593750000003,"end":26.254718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.54596875,"end":26.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.60909375,"end":38.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.07284375,"end":29.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.47784375,"end":29.528468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.86159375,"end":31.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.41784375,"end":35.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.45159375,"end":35.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.767843750000004,"end":36.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.80159375,"end":37.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.69596875,"end":38.033468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.97409375,"end":40.969718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.02034375,"end":41.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.610968750000005,"end":43.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.416593750000004,"end":43.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.43346875,"end":43.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.45034375,"end":43.922843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.922843750000006,"end":46.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.28096875,"end":49.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.399093750000006,"end":47.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.59284375,"end":53.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.01409375,"end":54.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.03096875,"end":54.368468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.368468750000005,"end":57.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.385343750000004,"end":54.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.29221875,"end":56.916593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.67596875,"end":59.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.73909375,"end":58.806593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.025968750000004,"end":61.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.110343750000006,"end":60.03846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.01284375,"end":68.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.18534375,"end":73.92659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.32409375,"end":69.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.12909375000001,"end":83.44409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.17971875,"end":74.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.44846875,"end":91.81409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.81409375000001,"end":94.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.32846875,"end":97.73721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.90596875,"end":102.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.10846875,"end":98.41221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.49596875,"end":104.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.43659375,"end":112.24971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.45659375000001,"end":114.62909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.88221875,"end":117.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.83971875,"end":123.30284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.94909375,"end":119.23596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.15096875,"end":126.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.03659375000001,"end":126.67784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.96471875,"end":131.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.83346875,"end":139.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.23284375,"end":140.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.97096875,"end":141.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.73034375,"end":158.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.34846875000002,"end":155.83784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.26784375,"end":161.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.92971875,"end":169.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.00909375,"end":170.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.01284375,"end":174.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.88971875000001,"end":175.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKE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跟你們如果要來抓台灣過海的時候,這是我們的處理,不是不會處理的啦。"},{"start":326.989,"end":330.151,"text":"來 主委你有什麼要補充我們總體來說真的我也不敢說白白的說我們百分之一百都有辦法所以我們有進步的空間我也不敢這樣說有時候尤其是海洋還是東北地方來你看東北地方來的時候配合加債就進來我們這裡要票房對方也是進來票房的像這種就越界進來"},{"start":355.165,"end":359.408,"text":"政府總預算有關海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會函．"},{"start":382.563,"end":383.563,"text":"海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府函．為113年度中央政府函．"},{"start":408.455,"end":408.735,"text":"凍結書面報告案計2案。 凍結書面報告案"},{"start":415.68,"end":421.643,"text":"因為各位我會跟你們討論這件事我就是覺得雖然他們有不好的時候如果天氣不好像你們說要去處理的時候看到天氣不好我們撤退我們也要顧慮對我們的安全這是人道啦因為例外都一樣我們也要有好處比啦"},{"start":440.134,"end":440.615,"text":"海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府函，請查照案。"},{"start":455.553,"end":456.693,"text":"請查照案。 請查照案。 請查照案。"},{"start":481.679,"end":483.64,"text":"函，為113年度中央政府總預算凍結50萬元書面報告案。"},{"start":500.387,"end":504.571,"text":"委員會函．為113年度中央政府函．為113年度中央政府函．"},{"start":522.932,"end":524.754,"text":"總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算凍結書面報告案計2案。"},{"start":537.912,"end":538.272,"text":"委員會函，請查照案。"},{"start":560.6,"end":564.465,"text":"海洋委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算凍結50萬元書面報告案。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}