{"error":false,"id":["149808"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149808,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149808","日期":"2024-03-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-13T11:21:45+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-13T11:29:43+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:58","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903deba942f8fbb53d514015affd80140c0f8ba9b0039caa7a61563234e73618c5b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"11:21:45 - 11:29:43","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算凍結書面報告案計2案。(一)海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送該會決議（一）「海洋業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送海洋保育署決議（一）「海洋保育業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。二、邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。三、審查海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送海巡署及所屬決議（一）「海巡業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。四、「海洋保育法草案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「海洋保育法草案」案。(二)審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1151,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（11時21分）主席、各位委員，有請主任委員。"],["主席：請管主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：鄭委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委好，這個行政院版的海洋保育法對原住民族的權益會影響非常、非常的大，而行政院版的海洋保育法只有第八條規定，第一項海洋庇護區保育計畫之擬訂，涉及原住民族土地及海域者，中央主管機關應依原住民族基本法的規定辦理，已經是屬於計畫的擬訂，庇護區的劃設或是緩衝區還是什麼核心區、保護區的劃設，都沒有規定，已經是計畫的擬訂。","我們看原住民族基本法第十九條，採集野生植物，野生植物是包含海裡面的野生植物，這是原基法第十九條的一個保障的規定，因為傳統文化、祭儀自用這個部分；然後原基法第二十條規定，政府承認原住民族自然資源的權利；海洋基本法也規定得很明確，你都沒有提到海洋基本法，海洋基本法規定，政府應建立合宜機制，尊重、維護、保存傳統用海智慧等海洋文化資產，保障與傳承原住民族傳統用海文化及權益，這是海洋基本法第十條所明定的，也應該要在海洋保育法裡面去落實，但這個部分沒有規定；海洋基本法第十三條也規定，保障原有海域使用者權益，這個部分也一樣沒有落實在海洋保育法相關的條文裡面；根據國土計畫法，國土計畫包含陸域及海域，國土計畫法規定，全國國土計畫中特定區域之內容，如涉及原住民族土地及海域者，應依原住民族基本法第二十一條規定辦理，並由中央主管機關會同中央原住民族主管機關擬訂；國土計畫法第二十三條規定，涉及原住民族土地及海域之使用管制者，應依原住民族基本法第二十一條規定辦理，並由中央主管機關會同中央原住民族機關擬訂。結果海洋保育法對於庇護區、緩衝區、保護區的諸多管制，都沒有提到。濕地保育法規定，涉及限制原住民族利用原住民族土地及自然資源時，核定前應與當地原住民族諮商，並取得其同意；海岸管理法第十條規定，海岸保護區或海岸防護區之劃設，劃設的時候，就如同庇護區的劃設、海洋保護區的劃設，涉及原住民族地區，各級主管機關應會商原住民族委員會擬訂。","我要談的是什麼？之前海岸管理法、濕地管理法、國土計畫法都是立法院三讀通過的法律，都會因為原住民族基本法的規定去修訂，現在我們要制定海洋保育法，同時海洋基本法也規定得很清楚，但是只有計畫擬訂的時候，對於劃設海洋庇護區、海洋保護區或是緩衝區，我愛怎麼劃就怎麼劃，不管你原住民族原有的海域。所以這個部分需要好好的去檢視。主委，我後面還有條文沒有放完，最主要就是說，相關的規定真的是欠缺，所以我不知道在草擬這個草案的時候，相關機關的意見、原住民族的意見或漁民的意見有沒有被考量？看起來是沒有被考量。"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，這些過程都有很多的討論，最後選擇的這個機制分成二個層次，就是把原住民諮商同意放在計畫的部分，它可以進入更細節，細節是最重要的，前面的部分是用審議會的方式就進來了，所以到底是要審議會也諮商同意，然後計畫也諮商同意，還是說審議會諮商同意，然後計畫的時候不用諮商同意，還是說現在這樣，審議會大家都進來，要有共識才會成形，然後計畫的細節最關鍵的部分用諮商同意，最後的討論是用這個機制。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委，我就舉你們行政院版第十條為例，海洋庇護區之緩衝區內，非經主管機關許可，禁止從事下列行為，這裡面就包含了採捕海洋生物，所以這個我們就會變成完全被排除。"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有，這個也要審議會通過。對，委員，這一條裡面講的排除，就是所謂的禁限制行為，而禁限制行為也是需要遂行審議會機制，所以原住民相關的代表也一定都會進來，要有共識，才有可能成形。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委，我……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，所以當時是這樣想的……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：還是要明定在條文裡面，當然我有提出我的版本……"],["管主任委員碧玲：瞭解。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：到時候請海洋委員會能夠採納本席的條文，以上。"],["管主任委員碧玲：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢。","下一位洪孟楷委員。好，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-6","speakers":["吳琪銘","王美惠","徐欣瑩","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃建賓","黃捷","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","洪孟楷","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","蘇巧慧","高金素梅","丁學忠","陳冠廷"],"page_start":233,"meetingDate":["2024-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1131101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理113年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算凍結書面報告案計2案(一)海洋委員\n會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送該會決議(一)「海洋業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報\n告，請查照案、(二)海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送海洋保育署決議 (一)\n「海洋保育業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案；二、邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬\n列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；三、審查海洋委員會函，為 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化資產保障與傳承原住民族傳統用海文化及權益"},{"start":128.07,"end":151.318,"text":"這是海洋基本法第10條所明定的也應該要在海洋保育法裡面要去落實所以這個部分沒有規定然後海洋基本法第13條也規定保障原有海域者使用者權益所以這個部分也是一樣沒有落實在海洋保育法相關的條文裡面國土計劃法國土計劃什麼是國土計劃"},{"start":156.67,"end":181.622,"text":"包含陸域及海域海域海域包括海域我看國土計劃要怎麼規定全國國土計劃中特定期之內容如涉及原住民族土地及海域者因依原住民族基本法第21條規定辦理並由中央主管計劃會同中央原住民族主管計劃擬定國土計劃第23條"},{"start":186.815,"end":213.812,"text":"涉及原住民族土地及海域之使用管制使用管制使用管制因依原住民族基金法第21條規定辦理並由中央主管局會同中央原住民族局官擬定所以這裏面海洋保育法對於庇護期對於緩衝期對於保護期都有很多的管制結果都沒有提到"},{"start":217.087,"end":242.612,"text":"私地保育法涉及限制原住民族利用原住民族土地及自然資源時合訂前應以當地原住民族諮商並取得其同意海岸管理法第10條海岸保護漆或海岸防護漆之劃設劃設的時候"},{"start":245.803,"end":270.544,"text":"就如同屁股期的發射海洋保護期的發射屁股期的發射涉及原住民族地區各級主管機關應會商原住民族委員會擬定我要談的是什麼呢這個之前海洋管理法、濕地管理法、國土計劃法"},{"start":272.461,"end":297.797,"text":"之前都是立法院三讀通過的法例都會因為原住民族基本法的規定然後去訂了這些然後我們現在訂這個要制定海洋保育法然後海洋基本法也規定得很清楚但是只有計劃的擬定的時候對於畫設"},{"start":299.929,"end":328.329,"text":"庇護區海洋庇護區海洋保護區或是緩衝區這些好幾個區畫設的時候我愛畫怎麼畫不管你原住民族原有的海域所以這個部分是需要去好好的去檢視所以這個部分這個主委我後面還有條文我還沒有還沒有把它放完"},{"start":329.502,"end":352.345,"text":"最主要就是說這個整個我們相關的這些規定真的是欠缺所以這個部分我不知道我不知道在炒你這個草案的時候相關機關的意見原住民族的意見"},{"start":353.749,"end":361.186,"text":"或者是移民的意見移民的意見有沒有去被考量看起來是沒有被考量"},{"start":362.146,"end":388.58,"text":"跟委員報告這些過程都有很多的討論那最後選擇的這個機制是分成兩個層次就是把原住民諮商同意放在這個計劃的部分他可以進入更細節那細節是最重要的那個細節是最重要那前面的部分是用審議會的方式就進來了所以"},{"start":390.261,"end":414.772,"text":"到底是要審議會也諮商同意然後計劃也諮商同意還是說審議會諮商同意然後計劃的時候不用諮商同意還是說現在這樣審議會的時候大家進來要有共識才會成行然後計劃的細節最關鍵的這個部分用諮商同意那最後的討論是用這個機制主委我就擠這個"},{"start":418.404,"end":439.631,"text":"行政院版第10條海洋聘務期資緩衝期內非經主管機關席個禁止從事下列行為這裏面就是包含了財普海洋生物所以我們就變成這個我們就完全就被說沒有這個也要審議會通過"},{"start":441.632,"end":468.052,"text":"對委員這一條裡面講的排除就是所謂的禁限制行為那禁限制行為也是需要遂行審議會的機制所以也一定會原住民相關都會進來要有共識才有可能會成行各位主委我還是要明定在條文裡面當然我有提出我的版本了到時候請海洋委員會"},{"start":469.738,"end":471.901,"text":"能採納本席條文。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}