{"error":false,"id":["149837"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149837,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149837","日期":"2024-03-14","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-14T09:28:28+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-14T09:40:01+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:33","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135e95281f58a2478bf08cf9aa492401ec9f8ba9b0039caa7a68d3a92de4e1420655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:28:28 - 09:40:01","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":782,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時28分）主席、各位委員、各位官員、各位媒體朋友，大家早安。我也是想請部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：陳委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長，呼應蘇委員剛剛提到的，空污、環境污染絕對跟我出身是不孕症醫師息息相關，我們現在已經證實男性女性的生殖功能下降都與空污、水污染、塑化劑等等全部都連在一起，我個人非常重視人口永續還有您這一本提到的永續議題，我今天也穿了由廢棄牛仔褲做成的衣服，也是我就職當天穿的，去呼應你提出來的這些時尚、紡織、永續等等。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：我們知道2018年的碳排，紡織業就占了全球的4%，相信部長也有去統計，你覺得臺灣廢衣回收的狀況如何？"],["薛部長富盛：我們的廢衣回收應該還算不錯，是不是請我們賴署長針對這個來跟委員做……"],["陳委員菁徽：沒有不錯，等一下，我直接把數據給你看，我們廢衣回收從2016年到2022年是有很多廢衣的焚化、舊衣的焚化，是因為現在快時尚，所以我們的衣服淘汰得很快，你回收已經沒有人要穿了。再來，因為快時尚，所以這些衣服的質料並不是好的，就算回收大家也不會去穿。"],["薛部長富盛：跟陳委員報告，最主要是過去一段時間大家在衣服的設計是使用多種的材料，但回收事實上希望的是單一的材質，譬如PET、聚酯類的，因為過去的觀念不一樣，而現在環境部在推動的就是使用單一的材質，這樣就可以提升回收的比例啦！過去因為它是混雜的，所以這些回收的廠商就不太願意使用，才會讓整個比例往下降，因此我們現在積極來推動資源循環促進法，從源頭的綠色設計以及材質分類這一塊。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以我幫你把資料叫出來，112年12月函頒「連鎖品牌服飾業及百貨零售業紡織品循環指引」，歡迎業者踴躍參加成為永續時尚聯盟成員。結果呢？我們全臺灣連鎖品牌有289個，紡織及成衣工廠有4,511家，可是根據我詢問環境部所回復的數據，目前只有6個廠商來申請，請問這樣算是踴躍參加嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：應該有很大的努力空間。"],["陳委員菁徽：我給部長幾個建議，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["陳委員菁徽：你看一下，要參加這個指引，每半年還要提供一個報告，所以沒有業者、廠商會想要做這種自願性增加工作來成為你們的永續時尚聯盟成員。當然部長你很忙啦！但如果你有空到UNIQLO、無印良品走一走，你會發現很多業者已經自發性地設了一個永續專區，裡面有這些回收布料做成的衣服，他們自己做，自己打自己的品牌，他們沒有在理你這個耶！他們參加這個沒有好處啊！"],["薛部長富盛：所以沒有誘因就對了，我瞭解了。"],["陳委員菁徽：對，不然半年寫一次報告，誰願意？但現在有非常多自發性的業者，如果你有空，你可以去走一走，也應該要去獎勵他們。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["陳委員菁徽：另外，自從COVID疫情之後，其實全球、全臺灣消費習慣都轉為電商，你也知道電商零售業的網路包裝每年可以產生5萬公噸的包裝廢棄物，網路購物是大家的日常，這一點在今天的報告裡面著墨甚少，但其實這是全臺灣人的消費習慣，未來你們的相關措施在哪裡？"],["薛部長富盛：關於網購包裝，事實上我們有跟幾大連鎖業者辦了幾場座談會，希望他們減少使用包材這一塊，我瞭解好像有幾家也積極地參與。"],["陳委員菁徽：有，你們報告有寫，是22家，目前只有22家響應你們減少包裝素材或是用回收的材質，但臺灣的電商有15萬家喔！"],["賴署長瑩瑩：跟委員報告，在網購包裝部分，我們在前幾年實施的第一階段已經把它法制化，就是有強制規定它的包裝比例及材質。另外，第二階段因為要做更精進的作法，所以是先以自行推動，未來會以強制的方式來做。"],["陳委員菁徽：這邊也給你一個建議，因為現在小女生他們自己在家裡客廳就可以成立一個工作室，所以他們其實C2C的賣東西非常容易，你現在只有找一些大的電商，它只是提供一個平臺，但很多人是自己賣東西，這個你是管不了的，所以你也必須要想辦法去管這些C2C的個人賣家，有很多很多，因為現在青年創業的門檻降低了，所以大家在家裡直播就可以賣東西，然後就會造成大量的污染。","部長，你自己有使用過循環杯嗎？因為你今天的書面報告也有提到循環杯。"],["薛部長富盛：是，我幾乎都是帶著自己的……"],["陳委員菁徽：自己的杯子？"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒有錯。"],["陳委員菁徽：像我就是大量外食，所以買飲料時去問店員，真的，我實地考察，每一個店員都跟我說沒有人用循環杯，你自己的報告也講不出循環杯推出以後到底使用量是幾次，但是你有講到大家自己帶杯子的比例提高到16%，這個非常好，可是循環杯製造了很多垃圾喔！我詢問每一個店員，店員都說因為顧客覺得很髒啊！每個人都不知道這個循環杯有幾個人喝過，雖然你的立意很良好，但現在的使用率極低啊！"],["薛部長富盛：跟委員報告，的確民眾有衛生的考量，所以比較有一點排斥，不過假如從一次性飲料杯所減少的量來看，事實上過去這幾年大概從15%，112年……"],["陳委員菁徽：我給你一個具體的建議，循環杯什麼狀況最適合？比如大的商辦，它的下面有咖啡店，上面有幾十家公司，每天上班的時候買循環杯上去，下班丟，而不是現在路邊隨便的零售飲料店都在弄循環杯，你這樣是不切實際的，你應該要把它分類，到底誰才會真的用到。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝委員的建議。"],["陳委員菁徽：剛剛講到的確你一定要提供誘因，所以你一定要實質去補助、獎勵這些有用分解材質或再生材質技術的國內廠家。再來，你應該要要求它提高這些再生材質的比率到多少。最後，我看到你們有超多種的標章，有衣服的、有飲料的、有包裝的，你應該要把它統一、應該要做一個有公信力的永續標章，不要讓我們喝個東西要找這個標章、穿衣服要找那個標章，其實它就是一樣的概念啊！是吧？"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝陳委員的建議，事實上這一點我們有在進行當中，就是把不同的標章看能不能做一個整合。"],["陳委員菁徽：因為現在從新聞裡面都還看到你們每一個細項都還是分不同的標章，其實大家會一片混亂。"],["薛部長富盛：好，這個我們來做。"],["陳委員菁徽：最後，我想要呼應剛剛林月琴委員質詢的題目，你明天就要開這個審議會了嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：這是去年的新聞喔！去年1月修正三讀氣候變遷因應法，表示半年內會提出所有碳費的子法，這是今天你提出來的簡報，今天我們重要子法的修訂進度有三項全民最關心的，第一個是碳費收費辦法（含收費對象）；第二個是收費對象指定減量目標；第三個是自主減量計畫審核辦法。這三個你上面寫「社會溝通中」，去年1月你說半年內要全部提出來，現在已經過了兩個半年又3個月了，但是還在社會溝通中。"],["薛部長富盛：跟委員報告，因為環境部也是去年8月22號才成立，所以這期間事實上有一段是組改的過程，對整個環境部的業務推動的確是有一點點遲緩，因為剛剛講的，去年2月15號總統公布氣候變遷因應法，8月22號環境部成立，這段期間……"],["陳委員菁徽：那我也想問，因為您剛回答林委員說你不知道合理的收費是多少，後來又跟蘇委員說300塊……"],["薛部長富盛：沒有、沒有，我是舉個例子。"],["陳委員菁徽：舉個例子？"],["薛部長富盛：因為蘇委員說一年可以收四、五千億……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你們明天會不會給我們一個具體的收費辦法？會不會？"],["薛部長富盛：收費辦法……"],["陳委員菁徽：因為所有人都很關心，它影響我們的物價指數。"],["薛部長富盛：事實上大家關心的是費率而已，收費辦法應該是其次。"],["陳委員菁徽：明天會訂定嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：費率不會明天出來啦！因為明天才第一次委員見面，大家總是要互相溝通，環境部也要告訴他們整個背景、過程大概是怎麼樣。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，這個真的對於國內許多廠商非常麻煩啦！它決定不出它的成本啦！"],["薛部長富盛：不會，跟委員報告，事實上這一點我們會納進去考量啦！讓廠商也有競爭力，然後在作業時間上也應該可以有一些時間來因應。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝主席、謝謝部長。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝陳委員。"],["主席（林委員月琴代）：我們請下一位黃秀芳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":420,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-5","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","王育敏","王正旭","林德福","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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C的個人賣家很多很多因為現在青年創業"},{"start":374.97,"end":388.866,"text":"等門檻降低了所以大家在家裡直播就可以賣東西了然後就會造成大量的汙染再來部長你自己有使用過這個循環杯嗎因為你今天的書面這個報告也有提到循環杯"},{"start":391.3,"end":414.688,"text":"是我其實都是帶著自己的杯子是所以你去買飲料像我就大量外食嗎所以你去買飲料你去問你去問店員真的你實地考察每一個店員都跟我說沒有用沒有人用循環杯你自己的報告也講不出循環杯推出以後到底的用量是幾次但是你有講到"},{"start":415.168,"end":433.77,"text":"大家自己帶杯子提高到16%這個非常好可是你循環杯製造了很多垃圾我詢問每一個店員店員都說因為顧客覺得很髒每個人都不知道這個循環杯幾個人喝過所以你的利益很良好但他現在使用率極低"},{"start":436.041,"end":450.842,"text":"委員報告的確這個民眾他是對這個衛生考量所以他會比較有一點排斥不過假如從這個我們這個一次性的這些"},{"start":451.703,"end":479.217,"text":"啊這個飲料杯的減少的量來看事實上過去這幾年大概從15%是我給你一個具體的建議循環杯什麼狀況最適合比如說大的商辦他下面有咖啡店上面有幾十家公司他每天上班的時候買循環杯上去下班丟而不是我們現在路邊隨便的零售飲料店都在弄循環杯你這樣是不切實際的"},{"start":480.518,"end":503.249,"text":"所以你應該要把它分類到底誰才會真的用到所以下一個剛剛講到說的確你一定要提供誘因嘛所以你一定要實質的去補助獎勵這些有用分解材質或者是有再生材質這些技術的國內的廠家再來你應該要要求他提高這些再生材質的比率到多少啊"},{"start":503.869,"end":530.556,"text":"然後最後我看到你們有超多種的標章有衣服的有飲料的有這個包裝的你應該要把它統一啊你應該要做一個有公信力的永續標章然後不要讓我們喝喝個東西要找這個標章穿衣服要找那個標章對其實它就是一樣的概念啊是吧謝謝陳文的建議事實上這一點我們正有在進行當中"},{"start":532.117,"end":549.46,"text":"對永熙就是說把不同的標章看因為現在從新聞裡面都還看到說你們每一個細項都還是分不同的標章其實大家會一片混亂好對這個我們來說最後我想要呼應剛剛林月琴委員質詢的題目好我們看一下你明天就要開這個審議會了嗎是對這是去年的新聞喔"},{"start":562.782,"end":572.174,"text":"去年1月修正三讀氣候法說半年內會提出所有碳費的執法"},{"start":573.752,"end":592.817,"text":"阿這是今天你提出來的簡報今天我們重要執法的修訂進度有三項全民最關心的一個是碳費收費辦法含收費對象第二個收費對象指定減量目標第三個自主減量計劃審核辦法"},{"start":594.657,"end":605.992,"text":"這三個你上面寫社會溝通中去年1月你說半年內要全部提出來現在我們已經過了兩個半年又過了三個月了但是還在社會溝通中"},{"start":607.818,"end":623.208,"text":"給委員報告因為環境部也是去年8月22才成立的所以這期間事實上有一段是主改的過程對整個這個環境部的業務推動事實上是有一點點的確遲緩因為剛剛講嘛去年的2月15號總統公佈去年變遷因應法"},{"start":629.392,"end":651.77,"text":"那8月22號環境部成立那我也想問因為您剛回答林委員說你不知道合理的收費多少後來又跟蘇委員說300塊所以你們明天我是舉個例子舉個例子舉個例子說假如因為蘇委員說四五千億一年可以收四五千億所以你們明天會不會給我們一個具體的收費辦法會不會"},{"start":654.114,"end":678.51,"text":"因為所有人都很關心他影響我們物價指數 事實上大家關心的是費率而已 收費辦法應該是 明天會訂嗎 費率不會明天出來 因為明天才第一次委員見面 大家總是要互相溝通 那環境部也要告訴他們整個背景過程大概怎麼樣 那真的這個對於國內許多廠商非常的麻煩 他訂不出他的成本"},{"start":680.094,"end":680.114,"text":"謝謝陳委員謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}