{"error":false,"id":["149851"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149851,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149851","日期":"2024-03-14","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-14T09:58:47+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-14T10:07:22+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:35","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135883be97af8c214b908cf9aa492401ec9f8ba9b0039caa7a65aed41defc5d99185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"09:58:47 - 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6，我們怎麼去取得國際的認同？碳權交易我們怎麼交易？你們是不是有一個初步的規劃，或者是不是已經取得國際的協定了？"],["薛部長富盛：給盧委員報告，我們去年7月8號在高雄成立碳權交易所，去年12月22號就已經推出第一筆的國外碳權交易，今年碳權交易所應該也會交易國內的碳權。我想盧委員比較關心的是，譬如歐盟的CBAM，假如將來這些廠商在國內繳碳費，到底歐盟會不會承認，是不是？可不可以抵換？"],["盧委員縣一：是。"],["薛部長富盛：因為CBAM本來是去年底要把執行細則公布出來，結果說真的也沒有公布出來，但是根據CBAM的法條，只要你在你的國家有官方的憑證，即事實上你繳了碳費，他們就承認。"],["盧委員縣一：OK，我們進行下一個主題。因為這是我的主要政見，所以我還是要問部長一些關於我們原住民的議題。我們都知道現在可以計算碳匯的大部分都是森林，雖然可以計算的有從土壤的、海洋的、森林的，但我知道森林大概占了80%。臺灣原住民都居住在高山上，也就是森林所占的國有林地大概有70%左右是原住民的領域。你們有沒有計算過傳統領域在這裡面的占比或是以後執行碳交易的時候，原住民實際可以取得的利益或者可以從中來參與的部分？你們有沒有考量過？"],["薛部長富盛：事實上，這個有。因為碳費跟碳權的增量額度這一塊，事實上是跨部會，所以盧委員比較關心的、特別是森林的這一塊，事實上是由農委會在主責。但是環境部提供他們一些協助，包括未來他們建立方法學之後，必須經過環境部同意、認可。"],["盧委員縣一：好，那我知道了。流程包括準備期、註冊申請階段，還有額度申請階段，我們目前是在哪一個階段？"],["薛部長富盛：我們從兩年前就開始要求排碳大戶，即每年碳排量超過2.5萬噸者必須做碳盤查，過去兩年這五百多家都有在進行；至於中小企業以及2.5萬噸以下，事實上是沒有，但是經濟部跟環境部一直有在輔導、鼓勵他們，根據環境部給他們的一些簡單公式，他們可以去盤算每年大概產生了多少碳。"],["盧委員縣一：因為我們知道在氣候變遷因應法的規定，我來唸一次，政府應該與原住民族共同推動及管理原住民族地區的自然碳匯，對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["盧委員縣一：圖上我畫紅色圈圈這邊，我們參與的程度到底在哪裡？可以稍微解釋一下嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：的確，一般民眾現在對所謂森林碳匯有一點誤解，覺得有一大片森林就擁有很多所謂的碳費或者碳權，事實上不是這樣。"],["盧委員縣一：我知道，所以應該要解釋清楚。"],["薛部長富盛：它的概念是要取得碳權，事實上必須增加，既有的就不算了。你必須有一片新的土地去造林，看增加多少，根據方法學1公頃的林地每年可以吸收多少二氧化碳，這個時候才能夠算，所以一般民眾的確有一些誤解。"],["盧委員縣一：OK。因為原住民族數千年來都是跟森林生活在一起，等於我們的自然慣習、傳統文化都是用很畏天的方式在跟大自然共存，希望在這個碳的市場裡面，我們原住民族不要缺席。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["盧委員縣一：其實也有一些文獻指出，我們原住民族可以是碳市場裡面的主要領導者，希望你們能夠參閱有關的文獻。我們要爭取的是 Forest Equity，也就是我們在說交通平權、健康平權，甚至到森林也是平權的概念，好嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：好，可以。"],["盧委員縣一：我昨天拿到審議會的名單，裡面從召集人一直到學者專家，有很多人，可是沒有一位委員是原住民族，是不是以後可以突破？"],["薛部長富盛：的確，當初在考慮委員的身分並沒有想到種族這一塊。"],["盧委員縣一：因為這個任期是到115年2月28號……"],["薛部長富盛：是，他是一任兩年，未來……"],["盧委員縣一：希望能夠增加，好嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：好，可以。"],["盧委員縣一：謝謝。我們知道現在已經是到你剛才說的 Carbon Bank的概念了，它有一些浮動的機制，我來提出一些我的問題，因為我也不太懂它在講什麼。請你告訴我什麼叫做 Unlimited Banking？因為幾乎每一個測量的方法裡面都有一個 Unlimited Banking。"],["蔡署長玲儀：國際間對於這種自願性碳市場有一個必須要遵循的原則，當然它需要涉及到這個法規的外加性，也必須要注意到對於自然生態資源的保護。"],["盧委員縣一：沒關係，我相信……你沒回答到我的問題，有空的時候，我們再聊一聊。謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：OK。謝謝盧委員。"],["主席：謝謝盧委員。現在宣告事項：待會兒林淑芬委員質詢結束之後，我們休息10分鐘。","現在請王育敏委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":420,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-5","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","王育敏","王正旭","林德福","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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equity也就是我們在說交通平權健康平權甚至到生意也是平權的概念好嗎好"},{"start":404.093,"end":423.194,"text":"那我我剛到昨天拿了一個我所謂的我們的這個是誰會好的名單裡面從召集人一直到學者專家很多人可是我們沒有應該是沒有一位原住民族的委員在裡面是不是以後可以突破"},{"start":424.963,"end":451.823,"text":"啊給文報告吼的確當初在考慮委員的身份並沒有去想到種族的這一塊所以因為你們這個任期是到115年的2月28號是他是一任兩年對所以那未來對希望能再增加好嗎是好謝謝下一頁好謝謝好沒關係再下一頁"},{"start":453.035,"end":477.33,"text":"那我們知道現在已經是到一個所謂的你剛才說的carbon Bank的一個概念了那他有些浮動的一些機制裡面那我來提出一些我的問題因為我也不太懂他在講什麼下一頁請你告訴我什麼叫做Unlimited Banking因為幾乎每一個方法裡面測量的方法裡面都有一個Unlimited BankingUnlimited Banking"},{"start":485.765,"end":511.252,"text":"幾乎每一個方法裡面都有個unlimited banking根委員報告就是國際間對於這種自願性碳市場他有一個必須要遵循的這個原則那當然他需要涉及到這個法規的外加性然後也有必須要去注意到這個對於自然生態資源的這個保護沒關係我相信你們回答到我的問題我們有空的時候我們再聊一聊謝謝"},{"start":512.745,"end":513.067,"text":"個好謝盧委員好謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}