{"error":false,"id":["149853"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149853,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149853","日期":"2024-03-14","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-14T10:04:29+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-14T10:16:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:05","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d2313580ee81afef1f0f599acded3ffe6c80faf8ba9b0039caa7a6440e68855abdbf165ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"10:04:29 - 10:16:34","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":391,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（10時4分）我可不可以請楊總裁？"],["主席：請楊總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：李委員早。"],["李委員彥秀：早安。總裁，我想你的數學一定比我好很多。"],["楊總裁金龍：委員太客氣了。"],["李委員彥秀：我有一個小學生的數學請教。如果A小學有學生平均身高是150公分；B小學的平均身高是170公分，所以兩間小學的平均身高是160公分，這樣的計算方法對不對？A小學平均身高是150公分，B小學的平均身高是170公分，二個數字加起來除以二，就是這兩個學校的平均身高，這樣的數學算法對嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：直覺上我總覺得好像是對的，應該是，沒有錯啊。"],["李委員彥秀：應該是？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["李委員彥秀：總裁，不對啦！應該去找出到底A小學有多少學生，B小學有多少學生，再把人數加起來計算才對。所以正確的答案是：A小學有100人，B小學有50人，這150個同學的平均身高是156.7……"],["楊總裁金龍：所以我就說委員的數學比我好。"],["李委員彥秀：總裁，我為什麼問你數學問題？我昨天很認真地看了你的報告，而最近主計總處也在今年2月底公布了對我們經濟預測的最新指數。我也觀察到你們央行也很用心，對於國內外13家專門做經濟預測的業者機構，也做了一個預測分析，最後的結果就是你們把這幾家所各自做的分析除以13，所以我們的經濟預測變3.18%，跟主計總處所計算出來的3.43%完全不一樣！總裁，我為什麼會這樣講？因為主計總處的計算有考量到很多不同因素在裡面……"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["李委員彥秀：但你們居然就把這13家國內外銀行及做經濟預測的機構預測數字加起來除以13，這樣數字會差很多，對於整年度的經濟預測也會有不同的結果。我的意思是說，我們要努力的方向、政策方向就會有不同的結果。不知道為什麼不用主計總處所計算出來的經濟預測，反而把這些機構的預測加起來除以13？"],["楊總裁金龍：跟委員報告，剛剛前面的委員也有談到，預測時常都不準，所以我們要接受預測是不準的，這是第一點。第二個，我的老師以前都說，預測只是參考值，參考值是什麼意思？就是說預測……"],["李委員彥秀：總裁，對不起，我要打斷你的話，我今天時間不多，而且還要問其他的問題。經濟預測對於各單位，對於主計總處、財政部及各單位該怎麼樣去處理預算，如何扶植產業界都很重要，所以我的意思是：差一點點就差很多！到底是3.43%對，還是你的3.13%對？而且你們的計算方法，居然只是把這13家國內外的銀行業，或有在做經濟預測的學界、產業界的機構預測加起來除以13。如果要用這樣子的方式，那麼未來各單位在經濟的投入會有相當大的差異。所以這個數字其實很重要，這是我要強調的地方……"],["楊總裁金龍：對，委員講的沒有錯，我非常贊同委員的說法……"],["李委員彥秀：謝謝總裁。礙於時間，我就轉一個話題，因為我今天主要是要問最近民眾及整個中央都非常關注，有關虛擬貨幣的問題。央行最近在談論規劃CBDC，在媒體上的討論度非常多。就此，其實我們也委託產官學界做了一些民調與研究案，預計5月份公布。我們都非常清楚知道，如果接下來真的要推虛擬貨幣的話，會面臨幾個最大挑戰：第一，民眾到底願不願意使用？第二，商家能不能接受？因為可能有新的機器、設備及人力成本要投入，還有法規面。但更重要的就是民眾使用的意願，這幾個大概就是我們所面臨的最大挑戰。"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有錯，委員講的沒有錯。"],["李委員彥秀：我關注到你們的研究作法，因為我沒有在報告中看到，你們是用電話民調，還是會辦公聽會？包括你有沒有跟店家溝通過，就是說民眾的意願是什麼，我覺得民眾很難用電話調查知道、聽懂數位貨幣這件事情。"],["楊總裁金龍：我是不是請我同事來回答這個問題？因為民調是他來執行的。"],["謝參事鳳瑛：跟委員報告，我們的民調先做電訪，還有電話的訪問，還有網路的訪問，還有實體的訪問，它三種都有進行……"],["李委員彥秀：好，你答到這邊就好了。"],["謝參事鳳瑛：我們調查完之後，那個資料後續會舉辦公聽會。"],["李委員彥秀：你回答到這邊就好了。總裁，我覺得用民調電話，因為數位貨幣這件事情對於一般的民眾，你要用電話或民調去跟他講清楚，我覺得就我來讀這些資料我都要重複讀好幾遍，更何況是一般民眾，如果央行對於未來數位貨幣的推動是重大政策，而且有時間點，你勢在必行，我不知道，因為現在各國對於數位貨幣這件事情都還在討論階段，要跨出這一步恐怕都有很大的挑戰，面臨……"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有錯。"],["李委員彥秀：我們八大行庫的挑戰、民間銀行的挑戰等等。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。"],["李委員彥秀：所以我不知道你這個數位貨幣只是還停留在初期，還是真的要進行，還是我們要跟上國際潮流，這個是我覺得你們要思考的地方。"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有錯。"],["李委員彥秀：第二點，總裁，我還是要跟你接下去討論我們整個虛擬貨幣的政策，因為虛擬貨幣的核心概念，其實就是要去中心化，要顛覆我們央行代表國家主權發行法定貨幣的機關，所以法定貨幣跟我們現在無論是比特幣等等的虛擬貨幣，到底是不是零和遊戲？還是未來你希望在臺灣，虛擬貨幣跟法定貨幣是有機會共存來去推動這些政策？我們有沒有平衡點？"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，基本上虛擬貨幣不是貨幣，像比特幣，比特幣是一種虛擬的資產，它不是貨幣。"],["李委員彥秀：總裁，因為這些在上次你到我辦公室的時候，我們都討論非常多，所以無論我看到在111年你出席很多會議，包括金融資訊會議，你都對於這些虛擬貨幣，無論是比特幣等等，你都認為它是風險性的資產……"],["楊總裁金龍：對，沒有錯。"],["李委員彥秀：包括它都是在投機炒作，無法獲得大眾的信任，包括蘇副總裁都認為它波動過大，它也沒有價值，它的穩定性也不足。我覺得整體央行對於虛擬貨幣的態度，似乎沒有太多的正面評價，我說到這邊，對不對？因為你們幾次對外的談話都是如此。"],["楊總裁金龍：對，沒有錯。特別是我們對投資者來講的話。我們要警告他，就是說不要以為這種虛擬資產是一種貨幣，它不是貨幣，它不是貨幣，然後你的虛擬資產會上下上下，它有漲就有跌，不要以為比特幣現在是7.2，大家都瘋搶……"],["李委員彥秀：對，我都同意，政府還是要善盡告知所有可能的風險。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，這是我們的職責。"],["李委員彥秀：但是總裁，我也關注到金管會這幾年對於這些虛擬貨幣的態度，好像也有一點轉變，包括金管會納管虛擬貨幣、包括擬定了十大的指導原則、包括對於他們的相關交易平臺，我們讓他們成立、申請公會，然後我們也納入金管會的金檢，對於虛擬貨幣等等。這些狀況、這些後續金管會的處理模式，包括成立公會等等等，到底有沒有跟央行做過溝通？你們兩邊的態度是不是一致？"],["楊總裁金龍：有，我們有，而且我們也尊重金管會的作法，它是循序漸進的一個監管……"],["李委員彥秀：這個循序漸進的轉折，是因為現在很多年輕人對於虛擬貨幣很感興趣，投其所好……"],["楊總裁金龍：對，沒有錯。"],["李委員彥秀：所以你們要這樣做回應是不是？所以你們的態度才有這樣的轉折，是不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：這是一個趨勢，我要跟委員報告，這是一個趨勢，監管是一個趨勢。"],["李委員彥秀：所以在金管、在央行，對於虛擬貨幣其實沒有任何的正面評價，但是因為它是一個趨勢，所以你們的態度才有這樣的轉圜？"],["楊總裁金龍：應該也可以這麼說，應該可以這麼說。"],["李委員彥秀：好，那我就要提醒總裁，我覺得這整件事情，後面我們還是要做更多持續的關注，因為我今天時間不夠……"],["楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。"],["李委員彥秀：其實我還是想針對經濟的問題，因為我看到你們對於整份工作報告，對於未來的CPI也好，或者經濟預測也好，其實你也做了很多的投入，包括過去這3年我們的實質經常性薪資是倒退的，連續3年倒退，包括我們總薪資也是倒退的狀況，那你對於接下來的經濟研究，包括我們產業的轉型，其實你有很多的看法跟想法，沒有關係，因為後面還有專案報告，我希望藉由後面的專案報告再進一步跟總裁做更多討論，希望央行這邊能在貨幣政策上發揮更多的功能，讓我們整體產業結構可以轉型，否則包括現在股市上20,000點，其實只有少數人，不是大多數臺灣人都玩股票，大多數臺灣人其實是沒有錢玩股票的，所以我們的經濟如何有機會產業轉型、結構更好，讓所有的臺灣民眾可以享受到真正臺灣經濟的紅利，可能要我們的央行、我們的財政部、我們各單位大家一起共同來努力。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，我非常贊同委員的意見。"],["李委員彥秀：謝謝總裁。"],["主席：下一位請賴惠員委員發言。現場還有王鴻薇委員，那等一下王委員質詢完畢我們就休息5分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-3","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","王世堅","李坤城","陳玉珍","顏寬恒","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":129,"meetingDate":["2024-03-14"],"gazette_id":"1131301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131301_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.8072187500000001,"end":2.3597187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.3597187500000003,"end":2.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.54096875,"end":4.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.29534375,"end":10.695968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.34596875,"end":9.801593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.763468750000001,"end":15.032843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.219093750000003,"end":12.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.032843750000001,"end":18.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.94784375,"end":23.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.133468750000002,"end":19.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.52971875,"end":24.989093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.57159375,"end":26.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.929718750000003,"end":31.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.637843750000002,"end":44.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.81721875,"end":47.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.25534375,"end":60.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.009718750000005,"end":55.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.330343750000004,"end":55.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.50659375,"end":66.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.63221875,"end":69.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.96096875,"end":70.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.45034375,"end":70.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.46721875,"end":90.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.44596875,"end":71.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.00971875,"end":83.22471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.22471875000001,"end":83.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.34284375,"end":83.41034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.41034375000001,"end":84.01784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.56159375,"end":87.59534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.59534375000001,"end":94.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.94846875,"end":103.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.52534375,"end":106.41096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.66409375,"end":113.12721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.12721875000001,"end":113.31284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.31284375000001,"end":120.77159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.56471875000001,"end":129.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.90596875000001,"end":125.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.69846875000002,"end":132.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.88784375,"end":134.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.17034375,"end":134.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.86221875,"end":135.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.06034375000002,"end":138.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.60846875000001,"end":138.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.62534375,"end":138.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.48596875,"end":139.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.80221875,"end":141.91596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.28721875000002,"end":157.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.81221875,"end":158.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.09909375,"end":164.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.70159375,"end":164.19096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.19096875000002,"end":168.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.50659375,"end":176.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.34596875,"end":172.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.45534375,"end":173.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.32409375,"end":176.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.37471875,"end":184.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.77846875,"end":187.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.11971875,"end":194.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.34221875,"end":198.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.86909375000002,"end":206.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.68221875,"end":209.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.97284375,"end":232.90596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.11971875,"end":215.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.19284375,"end":247.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.21159375000002,"end":249.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.54471875000002,"end":262.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.57221875,"end":266.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.97659375,"end":275.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.20721875000004,"end":299.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.24159375,"end":303.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.89909375,"end":320.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.30159375,"end":321.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.75721875,"end":321.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.38159375000004,"end":332.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.50346875,"end":324.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.52034375,"end":324.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.67221875,"end":324.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.94096875,"end":333.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.21096875,"end":338.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.22284375000004,"end":338.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.54346875000005,"end":339.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.80909375000005,"end":339.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.02846875,"end":341.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.02409375,"end":341.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.95221875000004,"end":341.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.96909375,"end":342.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.01971875000004,"end":342.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.50909375000003,"end":342.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.52596875,"end":351.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.00971875000005,"end":352.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.83659375,"end":357.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":358.08471875000004,"end":361.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":361.62846875,"end":365.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":365.47596875000005,"end":371.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.74159375000005,"end":366.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.92721875,"end":368.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.66534375000003,"end":368.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.44159375000004,"end":369.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.76221875000005,"end":372.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.02784375000005,"end":372.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.98534375,"end":373.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.62659375000004,"end":374.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.20034375,"end":381.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.47346875000005,"end":394.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.80471875,"end":394.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.92284375,"end":404.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.63471875000005,"end":402.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.03534375000004,"end":404.25471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.25471875000005,"end":410.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.16159375,"end":407.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.83221875000004,"end":408.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.78534375000004,"end":424.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.27721875000003,"end":424.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.07846875,"end":456.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.24659375000005,"end":460.29659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.34721875,"end":463.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.92034375000003,"end":466.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.74284375,"end":479.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":479.97284375000004,"end":509.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.52096875,"end":483.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.60784375000003,"end":494.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.42596875000004,"end":496.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.90909375,"end":519.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.92034375,"end":533.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.39471875,"end":535.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.6772187500001,"end":549.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.97034375,"end":581.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":553.46346875,"end":553.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.48034375,"end":555.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.80284375,"end":569.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.2490937499999,"end":575.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.41784375,"end":575.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.08409375,"end":578.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.32409375,"end":586.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.85909375,"end":587.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.0278437500001,"end":591.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.1159687500001,"end":592.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.7822187500001,"end":597.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.8784687500001,"end":600.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.9797187500001,"end":598.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.5447187500001,"end":603.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.8859687500001,"end":605.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":606.38346875,"end":614.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.7078437499999,"end":610.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.61909375,"end":610.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.54284375,"end":612.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.6272187500001,"end":612.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.0278437500001,"end":615.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.93471875,"end":615.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.9853437500001,"end":616.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.2553437500001,"end":621.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":621.41909375,"end":630.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.0265937500001,"end":622.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.66659375,"end":630.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.68346875,"end":634.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.53096875,"end":692.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.68159375,"end":642.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.96846875,"end":643.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.0990937500001,"end":645.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.1084687500002,"end":665.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.31409375,"end":672.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.66784375,"end":677.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.0303437500002,"end":679.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.9453437500001,"end":683.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.91909375,"end":689.2903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.3490937500001,"end":691.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.56409375,"end":693.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":693.28971875,"end":715.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.0847187500001,"end":709.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.9197187500001,"end":712.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.08409375,"end":717.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.07096875,"end":716.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":717.9440937500001,"end":718.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.19721875,"end":718.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.3359687500001,"end":725.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.96846875,"end":725.2678437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.829,"end":25.777,"text":"我可不可以請楊總裁請楊總裁李委員早早安總裁我想你的數學一定比我好很多委員太客氣了總裁我有一個數學小學生的數學要請教你對不對如果A小學"},{"start":26.997,"end":47.037,"text":"他有一百個學生一百五十個學生那他的平均身高是一百A小學的平均身高是一百五十公分B小學的平均身高是一百七十公分所以兩間小學的平均身高是一百六十公分這樣的計算方法對不對"},{"start":49.298,"end":60.506,"text":"A小學平均身高是150公分B小學的平均身高譬如說是170公分兩個數字加起來除以2是這兩個學校的平均身高這樣數學算法對嗎應該是喔"},{"start":69.946,"end":71.527,"text":"所以我就說委員的數學比我好啊"},{"start":96.247,"end":118.406,"text":"總裁我為什麼問你這個數學問題我昨天很認真的看了你的報告我們最近主計處也做了我們今年在2月底也剛公布了我們的經濟預測的最新的指數我也觀察到你們也很用心央行也很用心對於國內外13家"},{"start":121.841,"end":136.574,"text":"業者機構專門有在做經濟預測的機構也做了一個預測分析最後的結果你們就把這幾家各做的分析除以13所以我們的經濟預測變3.18跟"},{"start":140.868,"end":167.584,"text":"我們主計處所計算出來的3.43這個數字是完全不一樣總裁我為什麼會講因為主計處計算出來他有考量到很多不同的因素在裡面但是你們居然就把這13家這個外面的機構國內外銀行還有在做經濟預測的機構加起來除以13這個數字差很多對於整年度的經濟預測"},{"start":169.574,"end":172.277,"text":"我跟委員報告就是說預測剛剛就是說前面的委員也談到了這個說預測就是說時長都不準"},{"start":195.911,"end":204.46,"text":"那我們都要接受就是說預測都不準的啦這是第一點第二個呢預測我老師以前都是在講預測值參考值"},{"start":206.738,"end":232.443,"text":"那參考只是什麼意思呢?就是說預測呢?總裁對不起喔我要打斷你的話因為我期限時間不多主要其實還要問其他的問題經濟預測對於各單位對於我們接下來包括整個主計處要如何去財政部要去各單位怎麼樣去處理預算我們在產業界我們如何去做扶植都很重要所以我的意思是說差一點點差很多"},{"start":233.363,"end":243.973,"text":"所以到底是3.43對還是你的3.13對那但是你們計算的方法居然只是把這13家國內外的銀行業也好有在做經濟預測的學界產業界的機構加起來除以13"},{"start":248.254,"end":274.796,"text":"我覺得如果要用這樣子的方式的話我覺得對於未來我們經濟就是各單位政府的投入我覺得會有相當大的差異所以這個數字其實是很重要這是我要強調的地方委員講的沒有錯我非常贊同委員的說法謝謝總裁我時間我就轉一個話題因為我今天主要其實我還是要問一下最近民眾跟"},{"start":276.317,"end":298.161,"text":"整個中央都非常關注的有關於虛擬貨幣的問題央行最近在討論規劃CBDC在媒體上我也看到討論度非常多五月份其實我們也委託產官學界做了一些民調跟研究案那五月份會公佈但我們都非常清楚知道我們這個虛擬貨幣接下來如果真的要推的話我們會面臨幾個最大的挑戰第一個"},{"start":303.962,"end":319.899,"text":"民眾他到底會願不願意使用?第二商家他能不能接受因為你可能有新的一些機器啊設備啊你要投入人力成本法規面更重要就是民眾使用的意願這幾個大概就是我們面臨最大的挑戰"},{"start":321.28,"end":340.508,"text":"我關注到你們這個研究的做法因為我沒有從你的報告當中看到你們是用電話民調還是會辦公聽會包括你有沒有跟店家溝通過就是民眾的意願是什麼民眾我覺得很難是用電話調查知道聽懂數位貨幣這件事情"},{"start":342.589,"end":346.655,"text":"我是不是請我同事來回答這個問題因為這個民調是他來執行的"},{"start":352.951,"end":370.422,"text":"各位報告我們這是為了民調先做這個電訪還有網路就是電話的訪問還有網路的訪問還有實體的訪問他有3種都有進行那我們調查完之後那個資料會後續提到公聽會是"},{"start":373.241,"end":389.941,"text":"總裁我感覺就是說用民調電話因為數位貨幣這件事情對於一般的民眾你要用電話或民調去跟他講清楚我覺得就我來讀這些資料我都要重複讀好幾遍更何況是一般民眾"},{"start":390.862,"end":409.992,"text":"如果央行對於未來數位貨幣的推動是重大政策而且有時間點我勢在必行我不知道因為現在各國對於數位貨幣這件事情都還在討論階段要跨出這一步恐怕都有很大的挑戰沒有錯沒有錯我們包括韓國的挑戰民間銀行挑戰等等是沒有錯"},{"start":410.948,"end":437.207,"text":"所以我不知道你這個數位貨幣只是還停留在初期還是真的要進行還是我們要跟上國際潮流這個是我覺得你們要思考的地方第二點總裁我還是要跟你接下去討論我們整個虛擬貨幣的政策因為虛擬貨幣的核心概念其實它就是要去中心化要顛覆我們央行代表國家主權發行法定貨幣的機關"},{"start":438.968,"end":461.025,"text":"所以到底法定貨幣跟我們現在的無論是比特幣這些虛擬貨幣到底是不是零和遊戲還是未來你希望在台灣我們跟虛擬貨幣跟法定貨幣我們是有機會共存來去推動這些政策我們有沒有平衡點我跟委員報告基本上就是說像虛擬貨幣那種虛擬貨幣不是貨幣"},{"start":464.926,"end":464.966,"text":"李彥秀"},{"start":483.206,"end":507.411,"text":"無論我看到在111年你出席很多會議包括金融資訊會你都對於這些虛擬貨幣無論是比特幣你都認為它是風險性的資產包括它都是在投機炒作無法獲得這個大眾信任包括我們蘇副總裁都認為它是波動過大它也沒有價值它的穩定性也不足了就是說我覺得整體央行對於虛擬貨幣的"},{"start":510.332,"end":517.977,"text":"態度似乎沒有太多的正面評價我說到這邊對不對因為我從你們幾次對外的談話都是如此對沒有錯我們沒有對我們對特別是我們對投資者來講的話我們要警告他就是說不要以為就是說這種虛擬資產虛擬資產是一種貨幣"},{"start":534.411,"end":553.865,"text":"他不是貨幣他不是貨幣然後呢你的虛擬資產呢他有上下上下的一個他有漲就有跌我們不要以為就是說比特幣現在是7.25大家都瘋狂我都同意政府還是要善盡所有可能有可能的風險但是"},{"start":556.387,"end":578.681,"text":"總裁我也關注到金管會這幾年對於這些虛擬貨幣的套度好像也有一點轉變包括我們金管會我們納管虛擬貨幣包括你訂了十大的指導原則包括我們也對於他們相關的交易平台我們讓他們成立申請工會然後我們也納入金管會的金檢對於虛擬貨幣等等"},{"start":581.583,"end":600.437,"text":"這些狀況這些後續金管會的處理的模式包括成立公會等等等到底有沒有跟央行做過溝通你們兩邊的態度是不是一致我們有而且呢我們也尊重那個我們也尊重金管會的一個做法它是循序漸進的一個叫這個循序漸進的轉折是因為"},{"start":604.12,"end":629.756,"text":"現在很多年輕人都喜歡對於虛擬貨幣很感興趣投機鎖號所以我們要這樣做回應是不是所以你們態度才有這樣的轉折是不是這是一個趨勢這是一個趨勢我要跟委員報告這是一個趨勢監管是一個趨勢所以在監管在央行對於虛擬貨幣其實沒有任何的正面評價但是因為它是一個趨勢所以我們的態度才有這樣的轉環"},{"start":631.497,"end":651.989,"text":"應該也可以這麼說啦應該可以這麼說啦好那我就要提醒總裁我覺得這件事情我覺得後面我們還是要做更多持續的關注因為我今天時間不夠其實我還是想針對經濟的問題因為我看到你們對於整份工作報告對於未來的CPI也好或者經濟預測也好"},{"start":653.61,"end":672.153,"text":"其實你也做了很多的投入包括過去這3年我們的實質經常性薪資是倒退的連續3年倒退包括我們總薪資也是倒退的狀況那你對於接下來的經濟研究包括我們產業的轉型其實你有很多的看法跟想法"},{"start":673.254,"end":692.15,"text":"所以沒有關係因為後面還有專案報告我希望藉由後面的專案報告再進一步的跟總裁做更多的討論希望央行這邊能在貨幣政策上發揮更多的功能讓我們整體產業結構可以轉型否則包括現在股市上兩萬點其實只有少數人"},{"start":693.411,"end":693.431,"text":"謝謝總裁"},{"start":721.383,"end":721.704,"text":"下一番請賴會員賴委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}