{"error":false,"id":["149859"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149859,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149859","日期":"2024-03-14","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-14T10:16:41+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-14T10:27:55+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:14","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135f4ed33dbd33263a49acded3ffe6c80faf8ba9b0039caa7a687e74d03d353af155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"10:16:41 - 10:27:55","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":443,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（10時16分）好，謝謝主席，有請楊總裁。"],["主席：請楊總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：賴委員早。"],["賴委員惠員：總裁早安。我想今天針對的就是去年央行對於CPI多次上修的原因來跟總裁做討教，在2023年，其實全年的CPI年增率已經是到了這15年來的第2高，我們從主計總處的統計數字裡頭可以看到，2023年全年度CPI的年增率已經到了2.5%，那今年2月份的CPI，其實年增率也來到了3.08%，在這裡要請教總裁，為什麼2023年CPI的增加是這麼高呢？它可能存在的原因是什麼？你們怎麼樣來看待CPI的上升？"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，我們的CPI在2023年是2.5%沒有錯，2.49%啦！後來主計總處修改為2.49%，在2022年的時候是2.95%，那表示說2023年是有下降下來。"],["賴委員惠員：對。"],["楊總裁金龍：那下降下來主要的因素還是在服務類，外食、肉類還有服務類，剛好就是說我們……"],["賴委員惠員：好，主要在服務業，是不是因為整個疫情的影響？"],["楊總裁金龍：是，等疫情放寬了以後，你看看我們到國外去的，還有整個的餐飲業，這些成長率都很高，它帶動的還包括旅遊、住宿，這些都是很非常熱絡的。"],["賴委員惠員：我們從央行的新聞稿裡頭看得出來，你們在整個CPI年增率的預測裡頭，你們已經有注意到近期的民生物價一直在上漲，尤其你也提到娛樂的問題……"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["賴委員惠員：這個價格高漲，看起來它已經是超乎我們的預期，然後還有氣候變遷、禽流感，這些食物類……實質的總薪資一直在下跌，定存利率趕不上通膨，民眾的錢變少了、變薄了，其實你真正面臨到的是一個實質的負利率，那你怎麼看待這個事情呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們在去年的時候，特別是製造業的整個薪資下跌，為什麼？因為國外的需求下降。"],["賴委員惠員：對。"],["楊總裁金龍：所以整個製造業的薪資就下來，服務業還好，但是總的來講還是負的，但是我們到今年來看的話，我們今年2024年的經濟成長會比較好。"],["賴委員惠員：會比較好？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，我們的經濟成長……"],["賴委員惠員：為什麼會比較好呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：因為全球的出口會復甦，我們出口復甦了以後，投資額會增加，我們去年的投資是負的，今年會正的，我們的出口如果是正成長，投資也會正成長，而且我們的consumption消費這個部分還是依然有動能。"],["賴委員惠員：是。我想這整個連動，我們大家都非常理解，問題是定存利率就是1.56%，可是通膨這麼嚴重，如果央行沒有辦法去感受到實際上老百姓的一個體溫上的通膨，那怎麼辦呢？錢確實是變薄，民怨產生了啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，今年的通膨會下來，只是下來的幅度大小而已，我們的經濟成長也會……"],["賴委員惠員：可是你剛剛又講了，你說全世界其實景氣是變好的啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：我們臺灣是會比較好。"],["賴委員惠員：臺灣會比較好？"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["賴委員惠員：會受全世界的影響？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們受全世界的影響，稍微會……","因為今年我們的出口會好，出口好主要就是，出口的整個貿易量會成長的。"],["賴委員惠員：所以總裁有看到，歐美央行其實都已經在升息了，已經拉到近10年的一個高點了，為什麼？因為最大的挑戰就是在物價遠高疫情以前……"],["楊總裁金龍：對，沒有錯，因為那個時候……"],["賴委員惠員：現在整個物價是高於疫情之前，也造成了很多的民怨，如果通膨的問題再加上未來的電費調整，以及一些看病醫療費用的調整，央行應該是要更積極地從民眾的角度去看待通膨的問題，你有沒有考慮到貨幣的政策做調整呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，我剛剛也回答其他委員的質詢，在這一次的理監事會，我們會很嚴肅地來討論這個問題。"],["賴委員惠員：嚴肅地考慮？就是在貨幣的政策，你也會做這樣的調整嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個就是要嚴肅地討論。"],["賴委員惠員：這個也是工具之一，也是政策之一啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，沒有錯。"],["賴委員惠員：所以我要請教你，今年的通膨率，你的目標設定在哪裡？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們的通膨目標，如果以目前1.89%，去年底的時候，我們是用1.89%，但是今年4月份會調漲電價，我們會把電價的作用，它的影響我們會考慮進去，所以這樣的話，恐怕我們必須要上修通膨率。"],["賴委員惠員：對，你會上修通膨率。"],["楊總裁金龍：可能會，我是說可能。"],["賴委員惠員：因為實質的負利率已經越來越嚴重了，你們也看到了這一個問題，所以你一定要透過你的貨幣政策，還是種種的方式，甚至從銀行裡頭去收錢回來的這一些政策去調整，這個市場你必須要機動性的調整，是不是這樣子呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：是，委員講得很有道理。"],["賴委員惠員：有道理？好。那你的信用管制有用嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：信用管制當然有用啊！"],["賴委員惠員：可是房價還是一直在漲啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：但是信用管制所針對的不是房價。"],["賴委員惠員：不是房價？"],["楊總裁金龍：不是，中央銀行法裡面，我們的經營目標沒有房價的這個問題，你看看，我們是金融穩定……"],["賴委員惠員：對嘛！在全世界，在你們的通膨裡頭，你們一直沒有把房價納進來……"],["楊總裁金龍：對，沒有房價。"],["賴委員惠員：這就是大家最大的一個困境嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：但是房租有。"],["賴委員惠員：房租有，可是房價沒有啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：房價沒有，因為全球央行的利率政策沒有針對房價的，大家都是要針對通膨的。"],["賴委員惠員：總裁在這裡，我也是要跟你提醒，全臺灣80%的人其實都是有第一棟房子的，可是你還是受限在20%這些首貸還是這些年輕人，他們是沒有房子的，如果我們一直用這樣的一個保守的政策來看通膨，我們一直用這樣保守的政策來看整體的總體經濟，我們會造成很大、很大的民怨。你怎麼看待這個問題呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想是這樣，中央銀行……"],["賴委員惠員：你手上的工具最多了。"],["楊總裁金龍：也不一定是中央銀行，所以政府才會推出健全房屋方案，健全房屋方案是好幾個部會在裡面，中央銀行只是其中之一，中央銀行的職責就是避免房地產泡沫化，而導致影響到金融穩定，這是中央銀行的一個職責。"],["賴委員惠員：是。我們非常清楚地看到總裁講的，每一個人不管是財政部，還是我們的央行，其實對總體的經濟都有很大的主控力跟影響力，可是房價沒有如預期的回穩，反而是一直在上漲，剛才在上一頁的一個資料裡頭，我們就看到了信義房屋特別講到Q3、Q4，其實房價還是會持續的上漲，甚至去年2023年你在6月宣布管制以後，房子還是跟著漲，所以顯然光是央行的努力還是不夠，要整個連動進來。"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["賴委員惠員：好，如果你收回流動性的一個……譬如我可以從銀行裡頭去做總量的管制，把貨幣做總量的管制，你會不會覺得這樣會有一個積極抑制整個房價的……"],["楊總裁金龍：我想銀行的流動性基本上都被我們縮了，它的流動性都被我們縮了。"],["賴委員惠員：都被你們縮了？"],["楊總裁金龍：多餘的流動性都被我們縮了。"],["賴委員惠員：都被你們收走了？"],["楊總裁金龍：都被我們收走了。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝總裁，在這裡本席要要求持續觀察通膨的狀況，把民生的感受納入考量。"],["楊總裁金龍：好，謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：還有，你要適時的改變現有的貨幣政策，對房價上漲的現象，你要評估是不是可以用信用管制以外的貨幣政策手段來抑制房價快速的上漲。"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["賴委員惠員：我希望一個月以後提供給本席這樣的報告。"],["楊總裁金龍：好，謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：謝謝總裁、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位質詢請王鴻薇王委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-3","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","王世堅","李坤城","陳玉珍","顏寬恒","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":129,"meetingDate":["2024-03-14"],"gazette_id":"1131301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131301_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.31784375,"end":3.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.7772187500000003,"end":4.519718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.51471875,"end":10.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.493468750000002,"end":11.978468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.607218750000001,"end":12.029093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.029093750000001,"end":25.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.27221875,"end":22.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.32659375,"end":32.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.98784375,"end":45.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.98159375,"end":54.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.87471875000001,"end":58.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.87409375,"end":64.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.25284375000001,"end":67.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.92346875,"end":67.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.51409375,"end":77.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.33596875,"end":73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我想是這樣啦。你手上的工具最多啦。 我也不一定啦。所以這個才會就是說政府才會推出健全房屋方案。 那這個健全房屋方案裡面是好幾個部會。"},{"start":531.519,"end":546.136,"text":"在裡面中央銀行只是其中之一那中央銀行的職責呢我們就是避免你的你的房地產泡沫化而導致影響到你的這個金融的穩定這是中央銀行的一個職權職責"},{"start":548.76,"end":565.818,"text":"是,我想這個在下一頁我們非常清楚的看到總裁你在講的就是說這個每一個人不管是財政部啦就是還是我們的央行其實對總體的一個經濟都有很大的一個這個主控力和影響力"},{"start":566.619,"end":589.711,"text":"可是房價沒有如一起的回穩反而是一直在上漲剛才在上一頁的一個資料裡頭我們就看到了新宜房屋他特別講到了Q3 Q4其實房價還是會持續的上漲那甚至就是說你這個是2023年就是去年的你在6月宣布管制以後房子還是跟著漲"},{"start":590.771,"end":611.888,"text":"所以顯然就是說光是央行的一個努力還是不夠就是說要整個聯動的一個進來那如果你收回流動性的一個比如說我可以從這個銀行裡頭去做那個總量的一個管制我把貨幣做總量的一個管制你會不會覺得說這樣子會有一個積極的"},{"start":616.472,"end":642.231,"text":"我想銀行的流動性基本上都被我們縮了他的流動性都被我們縮了都被我們縮了多餘的流動性都被我們縮了都被你縮了都被你縮了謝謝總裁在這裡本席要要求就是持續的觀察就是通膨的一個狀況那就是把民生的感受納入了一個考量"},{"start":643.352,"end":662.222,"text":"還有你要適時的改變現有的貨幣政策那對黃價的一個上漲的一個現象你要評估是不是可以用信用管制以外的貨幣政策手段來抑制這個黃價快速的一個上漲那我希望一個月以後提供給本席一個這樣的那個報告好謝謝總裁謝謝"},{"start":669.966,"end":672.898,"text":"下一位質詢請王宏威王委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}