{"error":false,"id":["149860"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149860,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149860","日期":"2024-03-14","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-14T10:18:49+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-14T10:29:37+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:48","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d231358d280bafef25b7e908cf9aa492401ec9f8ba9b0039caa7a60303f983ebd4ce0e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"10:18:49 - 10:29:37","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1039,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（10時18分）謝謝主席。有請薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：王委員好。"],["王委員正旭：部長好。恭喜您擔任首屆的環境部部長。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝。"],["王委員正旭：其實我們都知道目前不論是一般的廢棄物，或者是事業廢棄物，國內處理這些廢棄物的量能都相當的緊繃，不敢說嚴重不足，不過至少是非常緊繃，所以如何能夠提升再利用率，落實循環永續，本席認為是一個非常重要的議題。本席來自醫界，所以就特別關注醫療事業廢棄物的處理問題。我們發現3年前，即2021年的時候，有針對醫療廢棄物處理的費用在短時間裡面被大量調高的問題，我們也瞭解，根據審計部的審查結果，因為生物醫療廢棄物的處理成本相對比一般廢棄物還要高10倍到20倍。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["王委員正旭：那時南投醫師公會就發現有一個地區醫院在被環保公司處理的過程中，很短的時間漲價了4倍，從原來每公噸7,000元變成破2萬塊，這是短時間內很大的衝擊，我們很擔心的是，透過這種負擔成本增加以後，會不會為了要緊縮這些廢棄物的使用，在希望成本能夠緊縮的情況下，造成醫療品質的下降，萬一未來又有同樣狀況發生時，不知道環境部薛部長有沒有哪些因應的措施？"],["薛部長富盛：因為那個是發生在2021年，剛剛賴署長也跟我反映，環境部那時候是環保署，事實上也有下去協助，我個人覺得現在的醫療院所的確在經營上也是相當的挑戰，特別是處理醫療廢棄物這一塊，它的單價也的確比較高，如同剛剛王委員所提到的，突然之間一下子漲那麼高，我個人覺得是可以商榷，不應該突然之間造成醫療院所那麼大的負擔。","至於醫療廢棄物處理的量能，我在這邊也跟委員報告一下，我們現在的資料顯示，每個月大概可以處理5,000公噸，實際上各個醫療院所報出來的大概是三千一百多噸而已，以量能來講，事實上是足夠的。"],["王委員正旭：是，不過依照部長您所說的處理量，我們看下一張簡報資料，我們可以發現，其實廢棄物目前的量還是遠超過您所提到的，依據我們看到的數據，每一年會有11萬餘噸的醫療廢棄物，可是目前的利用率只有21%，這部分好像有一些落差，我們很期待如果能夠有更精確的數字的話，對於未來貴部提供這些量能的處理，還可以再加強。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["王委員正旭：為什麼這個廢棄物的使用，回收率、利用率會下降？我們要瞭解一個很重要的原因之一就是，第一時間沒有做有效的分類回收，我們也瞭解，其實臨床現場的醫療工作人員要做這些使用廢棄物的分類回收面臨到相當的困難，而且他們有一些時間上的壓力，所以如果能夠有效的利用一些方法來改善第一時間的分類，相對應該是可以節省人力，同時又可以創造回收率。","針對醫材的結構或者是材質進行創新，讓回收的方便性提高的話，不知道環境部部長有沒有可以鼓勵或輔導業者來進行這方面的創新？"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝王委員的關心，上一個會期也有委員提到，在醫療領域，的確在ESG這一塊，以衛福部來講，過去比較沒有餘力去處理這一塊，環境部在ESG這一塊，特別是資源的回收再利用以及淨零排放，事實上我們有很多資源可以應用，所以我也回應王委員，這一塊我們跟衛福部來密切合作，希望在資源回收利用這一塊可以更進一步精進，因為我們現在也跟衛福部在推動醫療院所進行ESG，所以我想謝謝王委員特別重視這一塊，針對這一塊，環境部未來應該可以跟衛福部共同來努力，謝謝。"],["王委員正旭：那就麻煩部長跟兩部之間有更好的合作關係。"],["薛部長富盛：是，好。"],["王委員正旭：其實醫療體系的永續發展真的是醫界非常關心的議題。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["王委員正旭：我們發現邱泰源前立委非常關心醫療體系永續發展的議題，他在去年也發表相關的文章，期待醫療體系對溫室氣體排放的影響能夠再多盡一份心力。依據統計，醫療部門碳排放占全球淨排放的比率高達4.4%，臺灣相較之下還高於國際平均值，從4.4%變成4.6%，1年創造差不多20億噸的二氧化碳，所以醫療部門對全球的碳排放也需要負一些責任，這部分醫療院所有沒有進行哪一方面的改善措施？就部長您所瞭解的。"],["薛部長富盛：跟王委員報告，就我所知，上個會期有很多委員都關心這個議題，衛福部的薛部長也對委員報告會特別要求醫學中心等級的，因為他有領頭羊的效果，他們未來應該在年度的報告裡要把ESG這一塊納進去，包括盤點醫院的碳排以及能源使用效率的提升，事實上這非常重要，我覺得這一塊可能是醫療院所可以馬上進行的部分。"],["王委員正旭：是，所以落實ESG永續發展應該是目前國家的重大政策。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["王委員正旭：是，那我們看一下，如果醫學中心要配合相關的發展的話，我們可以從他的五大任務裡面去做哪一些要求，我們看到最後一項「配合國家政策，肩負社會公益責任」，未來環境部除了剛剛所提到的以外，有沒有更好的角色可以來加強？或者如何能夠讓兩個部會之間有更好的合作關係？"],["薛部長富盛：有關淨零排放這一塊，事實上我們的氣候變遷署有提供一些輔導跟支援的措施，我們國家環境研究院也有做一些人才的培育，我們的資料顯示，的確醫療院所參與淨零排放課程的人數真的比較少，我們也希望醫學中心的主責人員可以跟環境部聯繫，環境部來提供人才的培訓，讓他們變成未來醫療中心的種子，把淨零排放的概念推展到醫療院所的每一個角落。"],["王委員正旭：主席我可不可以再多2分鐘？謝謝。其實我們也知道，目前根據剛剛部長的說明就可以瞭解，很多的醫學中心都執行、走在很前面，不管是臺大、馬偕，或者是新光，甚至是長庚體系，事實上都做了非常多這方面的要求，也希望在永續發展的部分盡一份社會責任。","我們再來看最後的部分，空污問題我相信剛剛已經有很多委員請教過部長，針對空污問題，因為我來自醫界，也知道癌症對國人的影響，空污問題如果能夠有機會做更好的處理的話，可以減少癌症的發生，空污是肺癌很重要的因素，所以空污所造成的問題，很希望環境部能夠更有效的來處理。包括剛剛盧委員提到開發行為引起空污，如何能夠在修法的過程中讓抵換的原則更周延，也期待部長針對各地的需求再多做考量，以上。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝，我們會來努力，謝謝王委員。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。","接下來有請林淑芬林委員。"],["林委員德福：他講完之後我講4分鐘，因為還有人在等我……"],["林委員淑芬：這樣的話，先讓他講。"],["林委員德福：這樣不好意思。"],["林委員淑芬：不會。"],["林委員德福：好，不好意思，那我們就換了。"],["主席：我們有請林德福委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":420,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-5","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","王育敏","王正旭","林德福","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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來萬一又有同樣狀況發生的時候那不知道環境部學部長這邊有沒有哪一些因應的措施"},{"start":132.934,"end":147.253,"text":"我想因為那個是發生在20212011年那我們剛剛賴署長也跟我反映說事實上環境部那時候是環保署事實上也有下去協助那我個人覺得就是說"},{"start":148.114,"end":148.254,"text":"議員王正旭"},{"start":166.434,"end":183.751,"text":"啊可以上去不應該突然之間造成醫療院所那麼大的負擔那至於說這個醫療會期處理的量能我在這邊也跟委員報告一下就是說我們現在的資料顯示是每個月大概可以處理5000公噸"},{"start":186.755,"end":216.178,"text":"那我們實際上的各個醫療院所報出來大概是3100多噸而已啦所以事實上量能來講事實上是足夠的是是不過如果依照部長您所說的這個處理量我們看下一張的資料我們可以發現其實廢棄物目前齁目前的量還是會遠超過您所提到的"},{"start":216.718,"end":231.617,"text":"因為依據看到的數據是每一年會有11萬餘噸的這些醫療廢棄物可是目前的利用率只有21%所以這部分好像有一些落差我們很期待說如果能夠有更"},{"start":233.258,"end":258.932,"text":"正確的這個數字的話那對於未來貴婦提供這些量的處理還可以再加強那為什麼這個廢棄物的使用回收率利用率會下降我想我們一個瞭解一個很重要的原因之一呢就是第一時間沒有做有效的分類回收那我們也瞭解其實臨場現場的這些醫療工作人員要做這些"},{"start":261.263,"end":277.521,"text":"使用廢棄物的分類回縮面臨相當的困難而且他有一些時間上的壓力所以如果能夠有效的利用一些方法來改善這個第一時間的分類的話相對應該是可以節省人力"},{"start":277.901,"end":302.952,"text":"那同時又可以創造回收率所以針對醫材的結構或者是材質進行創新讓這個回收率方便性提高的話這一部分不知道環境部部長這邊有沒有可以做鼓勵或輔導業者來進行這方面的創新謝謝王委員的關心的確包括在上一個會期也有委員提到在這個醫療領域的確在ESG在這一塊"},{"start":306.834,"end":307.694,"text":"阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿阿"},{"start":325.959,"end":346.685,"text":"那所以我也這個回應黃委員就是說這一塊我們跟衛福部來密切合作希望在資源回收利用這一塊可以更進一步來精進因為我們現在跟衛福部在推動包括醫療院所來進行ESG的一個推動的這一塊所以我想"},{"start":347.505,"end":368.059,"text":"謝謝王委員你特別重視這一塊那我覺得這一塊環境部未來應該可以跟衛務部那來共同來努力那就麻煩部長跟這個兩部之間有更好的合作關係那其實醫療體系的永續發展真的是一屆非常關心的議題我們也發現這個秋"},{"start":373.522,"end":394.43,"text":"太原前立委針對於醫療體系的永續發展非常關心這個議題所以他在去年也發表相關的文章期待醫療體系對溫室氣體排放的影響能夠再多盡一份心力因為依據統計我們發現醫療部門碳排放占全球"},{"start":395.23,"end":395.71,"text":"一年會創造差不多"},{"start":413.044,"end":413.564,"text":"議長您所瞭解"},{"start":432.538,"end":453.819,"text":"跟王委員報告,就我所知道因為上會期很多委員都關心這個議題那衛福部的薛部長事上他也對這個委員來報告說他們會要求特別是醫學中心等級的他有領頭羊的效果他們應該未來在年度的報告裡面要把ESG的這一塊"},{"start":454.36,"end":469.548,"text":"議員．"},{"start":469.848,"end":493.488,"text":"所以若是ESG的永續發展應該是目前國家的重大政策是那我們看一下如果這個醫學中心要配合相關的發展的話那我們可以從他的這個五大任務裡面去做哪一些的要求我們可以看到在最後一項配合國家政策來肩負社會公益責任那未來環境部"},{"start":494.449,"end":504.346,"text":"除了剛剛所提到的以外那有沒有更好的這個角色可以來加強或者是如何能夠讓兩個部會之間有更好的合作關係"},{"start":506.175,"end":533.07,"text":"有關這個近年排放的這一塊事實上我們的氣候變遷署事實上有提供一些輔導跟支援的措施我們國家環境研究院也有做一些人才的培育我們的資料顯示的確醫療院所去參與包括近年排放的課程的人數真的是比較少那我們也很希望說這些醫學中心的"},{"start":534.711,"end":553.485,"text":"主責人員應該可以跟環境部來聯繫環境部來提供包括做人才的培訓讓他變成我們未來醫療中心的一個總製把這個近年排放的概念推展到整個醫療院所的每個角落"},{"start":554.859,"end":574.658,"text":"主席,我可不可以再多兩分鐘,謝謝。其實我們也知道目前根據剛剛這個部長的說明,其實在醫學中心我們往下看就可以了解很多的醫學中心都執行走在很前面,不管是臺大、馬街"},{"start":576.772,"end":603.36,"text":"或者是星光甚至是長庚體系事實上都做了非常多相關的這方面的要求那也希望從永續發展的部分進一份的這個社會責任那我們再來看最後的一部分空污問題我相信剛剛已經有很多的委員也請教過部長那針對空污問題因為我來自一屆"},{"start":604.645,"end":632.294,"text":"也知道癌症對國人的影響空污問題如果能夠有機會做更好的處理的話可以減少這個癌症的發生肺癌是很重要因素所以空污問題所造成的問題我們很希望環境部這邊能夠更有效的來處理那包括剛剛盧委員有提到這個開發行為引起這個空污的部分如何能夠在修法的過程裡面"},{"start":633.414,"end":633.795,"text":"恭喜王主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}