{"error":false,"id":["149867"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149867,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149867","日期":"2024-03-14","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-14T10:35:49+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-14T10:44:15+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:26","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135a1f00d6f1cc9cf2151d5fa63d75d4c3df8ba9b0039caa7a6a26d91266f61260a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳超明","委員發言時間":"10:35:49 - 10:44:15","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣中油股份有限公司。(詢答)【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":572,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（10時35分）主席好。"],["主席：陳委員好。"],["陳委員超明：現在有請我們經濟部王部長。"],["主席：來，王部長。"],["陳委員超明：要跟主席問好，氣氛才不會那麼嚴肅。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：部長好。部長，我在總質詢以及在本委員會的質詢都有談到我們賴清德總統所提出來的大矽谷計畫，就是桃竹竹苗矽谷計畫、西部科技走廊。我為什麼要在今天這個場合談？我先讓你瞭解苗栗的重要性，以及它為了臺灣經濟發展所付出的貢獻。","通霄火力發電廠在苗栗，現在大概都是供應北部用電，北部使用的瓦斯在我們通霄也有一個轉輸中心，所以通霄可憐在哪裡？都被你們經濟部、台電公司的特高壓電整個包圍起來，好像被蜘蛛網從上面壓住一樣，感覺很差！","另外一個可憐的地方是，我們通霄所有地下管路都是中油在那邊埋來埋去，裡面的管路非常、非常多，但是我們苗栗的人很善良，尤其中油公司，台電公司還有一個回饋專案，中油公司對那個地方非但都沒有回饋，每次有關中油的事情還要我出面來解決！"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員幫忙。"],["陳委員超明：因為中油是我們經濟委員會監督的。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員超明：包括你們以後的溝通協調都要做好。","還有，我太瞭解你們了，都替你們講假話，像你們那種捕捉碳之後要存放的時候，你們的試驗廠長也沒有跟鍾縣長和鎮長講一下，鍾縣長說你們實在太欺負人了，要我修理你們一下，不然你們都不知道「大小漢」，來到地方要拜一下碼頭。"],["王部長美花：抱歉，沒有事先讓委員知道，也沒有讓縣府知道。"],["陳委員超明：還有，你們最近工安方面發生事情，我去瞭解了一下，並不是工安事件，而是人為疏忽，但是聲音太大，大家以為中共飛彈打進來了，很緊張。"],["王部長美花：是，是聲音不恰當。"],["陳委員超明：你知道這個情形？"],["王部長美花：有、有、有。"],["陳委員超明：好，那我希望中油討論一個敦親睦鄰計畫，像台電一樣，好不好？"],["王部長美花：我覺得這件事情中油要去致歉一下。"],["陳委員超明：可是你當部長，你沒有答應，中油哪裡敢答應。"],["王部長美花：有、有，應該要去致歉，是、是。"],["陳委員超明：你要講支持還是贊成啦！你這樣講得模稜兩可，我實在……"],["王部長美花：沒有、沒有，支持，這個支持。"],["陳委員超明：好，剛剛張委員問到，其實全國都很怕戰爭，但是戰爭發生我們也要面對。大家都在想，以前的報告裡面說天然氣可以維持大約8到9天，現在我看你們的報告說穩定天然氣供應有8項計畫，這8項計畫包括要興建很多儲槽，可是到底有沒有增加臺灣的天然氣存量？"],["王部長美花：存量當然要去增加，包括……"],["陳委員超明：大概會增加多少？"],["王部長美花：包括三接會去增加，臺中港也會增加儲槽，以及高雄港也要增加。"],["陳委員超明：這是讓國民安心的問題，你們把題目做得那麼大，說是國安計畫，其實現在很簡單，因為有衛星在監控，多少船進來都一清二楚，不只我們會這樣做，對方也一樣，所以這沒什麼好隱瞞的！如果確實有增進，投資那麼大，你就說：我們已經在改進了、我們再精進。"],["王部長美花：是、是。"],["陳委員超明：可是你們連這個都不敢說，還引發這樣的問題，我覺得……"],["王部長美花：沒有、沒有不敢講、沒有。"],["陳委員超明：我們民眾的懷疑心會越來越大。"],["王部長美花：沒有，我們要委員支持，我們要增加這個儲槽。"],["陳委員超明：好啦！你講委員支持，我都支持……"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員超明：但是你也要把實際的情形跟我們講，不要閃閃躲躲的，讓我們不放心、不安心，晚上不能好好睡覺。好不好？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員支持。"],["陳委員超明：接下來，我替中油覺得委屈，台電和中油都是非常好的公司，尤其人才濟濟，以前都是菁英分子才進去，他們沒有去留學，留在這邊打拼。可是我覺得部長對台電比較好，有一個次長當台電董事長，中油這邊沒有次長當董事長，你曉得他們這4年虧損多少嗎？我算給你聽，到上個年度一共虧損了2,505億，台電虧損6,000億，他們是2,505億，董事長，你們資本額多少？"],["李董事長順欽：報告委員，1,301億。"],["陳委員超明：你們的虧損已經超過資本額了啊！哇！我不知道！所以你的委屈我跟你講，剛剛鄭委員說你的利息那麼高，你真的高，但是你比較乖，你人比較實在，以後中油也要有一個次長來任職，你們才能平衡，因為你們無擔保債券今年打算發行到3,000億，既不敢要國庫補貼，也不敢講虧損很多，其實都已經虧掉一個資本額了，你們公司很厲害，銀行敢借錢給你，可見你經營得不錯，人家敢把錢借你。","當然是要防止物價波動，但是部長啊！他真的很老實、很忠厚、很實在、很努力，是肯經營的人，你不照顧他，只照顧台電！"],["王部長美花：沒有、沒有，台電……"],["陳委員超明：他們虧了將近3,000億耶！你也公平一點，好不好？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員，台電、中油是我們經濟部最重要的兩家國營事業，我們當然都要去照顧。"],["陳委員超明：沒有照顧啦！我看起來，你愛台電，不愛中油。"],["王部長美花：沒有、沒有，都一定要照顧。"],["陳委員超明：台電有「power」，中油只有「加油」，對不對？"],["王部長美花：沒有，中油……"],["陳委員超明：好，最後問你一個問題，報章雜誌在講，你希望中油賣給台電的時候1立方米要減少1元，等於台電購買中油的價格大概會讓每年營業的收入、利潤損失到250億，它原來就在虧錢，你又叫虧錢的人去補貼台電，哪一條道理是這樣？"],["王部長美花：沒有，它現在賣給台電的錢……"],["陳委員超明：中油不就是「細姨仔囝」，不然你怎麼這樣欺負它？"],["王部長美花：我們就是知道中油也是有吸收非常多的成本，所以中油賣給台電的價格已經比它的成本價要高一點點……"],["陳委員超明：沒有只要降1塊喔？我是路見不平啊！"],["王部長美花：這個是看國際的天然氣有沒有降低……"],["陳委員超明：我每天聽你們說是國際天然氣，有時候要認命，但是不能這樣欺負中油。"],["王部長美花：不會。"],["陳委員超明：一面靠到台電，好不好？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員支持。"],["陳委員超明：不是我支持，你要支持才重要……"],["王部長美花：有、有。"],["陳委員超明：我講支持，你們不一定聽啊！"],["王部長美花：我們支持中油，中油、台電都非常重要，都一樣重要。"],["陳委員超明：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳超明委員。","接下來請賴瑞隆委員發言。待會邱志偉委員發言結束之後，我們休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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中縣長講說你實在太窮有人了 吃命啊 給修理一下 不然他們都不懂要大血汗來跟電話去拜一下嘛 沒有讓委員事先知道 沒有讓縣府知道還有你們最近公安發出事情 我去了解了一下 不是公安事件 是人為事件但是那個聲音太大了 大家以為中共的飛彈打進來了 很緊張啊 你知道這個情形嗎 有有有"},{"start":167.469,"end":189.78,"text":"好 那我希望你中油討論一個端青木林企劃像台電一樣好不好是 我覺得這個中油要去致歉一下是中油你當部長你沒有答應中油哪裡敢答應有有應該要去致歉是是你要講支持還是贊成你這樣講的模擬兩口實在我不幹沒有沒有支持 這個支持好 那剛剛張委員在問到"},{"start":195.68,"end":215.946,"text":"其實全國都很怕戰爭那戰爭發生我們也要面對但是大家都在想以前的報告裡面天然氣說維持大概8到9天那現在我看你們的報告裡面你在天然氣穩定天然氣供應有8項計畫"},{"start":218.683,"end":231.322,"text":"這個八項計畫讓我們了解你蓋了這麼多的屬於穩定天然氣供應的一個方式裡面到底有沒有增加天然氣對台灣的存量"},{"start":232.922,"end":250.367,"text":"存量當然要去增加,包括三街會去增加,台中港也會增加出廠,以及光州港也要增加。 所以說這種是讓國民安心的一個問題,你慢慢的跟我說題目做得那麼大是國安計畫,我說這現在很簡單。"},{"start":252.602,"end":267.818,"text":"我電腦那個監控啊齁衛星幫你監控你多少船進來我都一千二十嘛那麽會安捏一麽會安捏所以這個沒有好隱瞞的如果確實有增進投資那麼大"},{"start":268.559,"end":292.938,"text":"你就跟我 我們已經在改進 我們在進行你們這樣跟不跟我說 又有這樣的問題我覺得讓我們民眾的懷疑心會越來越大我們要委員支持 我們要增加這個出場好啦 你講委員支持 我都支持但是你要實際的詳細跟我講不要躲躲閃閃的讓我們不放心 不安心啦晚上不能好好睡覺好不好再來"},{"start":297.697,"end":324.084,"text":"我替中油覺得委屈臺電跟中油都是非常好的公司尤其人才激起以前都是經營分子才進去沒有去留學留在這邊打拼了我覺得部長你對臺電比較好你們有一個次長當董事長這邊沒有次長當董事長你曉得他這四年虧損多少中油我賺給你聽"},{"start":326.175,"end":334.677,"text":"如果到7年度一共虧損了2505億台電6000億他這2550億那個董事長你們資本額多少報告委員1301億你的虧損超過你資本額了啊"},{"start":348.888,"end":355.688,"text":"吼 我不知所以你的委屈我跟你講剛剛政府委員說你的利息那麼高你真的高"},{"start":356.704,"end":383.771,"text":"但是你比較乖你怎麼比較實在因為要有一個中油的當處長才來你才能平衡因為你無擔保債你今年打算花錢到3000億你不敢要國庫補貼也不敢講虧10年多啊你就已經虧到一個資本額了啊那個公司也厲害銀行敢借錢給你可見你經營得不錯人家敢借錢"},{"start":385.257,"end":389.488,"text":"當然是防止物價的波動但需要保證啊"},{"start":390.776,"end":419.259,"text":"他真的很老實阿很忠厚、很實在、很努力、很經營的人你這樣不照顧,你自己照顧台電他有將近3000億的,你也給他貶一下好不好是,謝謝委員齁那台電、中油都是我們經濟部最重要的兩家國營事業我們當然都要去照顧沒有照顧,看起來你愛台電不愛中油沒有沒有沒有,這個都一定要照顧台電有Power,中油是只有加油阿"},{"start":421.189,"end":449.842,"text":"對不對沒有中油好我問你一個問題你們報章雜誌在講你希望中油的時候賣給台電我不曉得預防你要減少一元一塊錢等於中油購買你台電購買中油價格大概你每年營業的收入會省吃到"},{"start":451.893,"end":457.094,"text":"我們就是知道中油也是有吸收非常多的成本所以中油賣給台電的價格已經比他的這個成本價要高一點"},{"start":479.662,"end":503.633,"text":"我是入監不評阿 但是因為這個是看國際的這個天然氣的有沒有降低 我每次聽你說國際的天然氣啦有說要是命阿但是不能求不中油這樣啦 不會 不會 因為靠照台電啦好不好 謝謝委員支持 是 不是我支持 你要支持才重要 有有有 我支持講得很不一定聽阿 我們支持中油 中油台電都非常重要 都一樣重要 是"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}