{"error":false,"id":["149884"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149884,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149884","日期":"2024-03-14","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-14T11:13:27+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-14T11:21:26+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d231359bcd8c88c4aee76a08cf9aa492401ec9f8ba9b0039caa7a6799c8eb37eb667cc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:13:27 - 11:21:26","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1192,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時13分）主席，謝謝。麻煩請薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。部長，明天我們會開碳費審議會，新聞報導說最快有可能3月底就會公布碳費的費率，有那麼樂觀嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：要看明天他們委員會之間溝通的情況怎麼樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：但總是有一個時間表什麼時候碳費要出來嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：我們原先的規劃是希望能夠在3月底，不過現在整個大環境也做了一些改變，我覺得環境部也有責任納進去考量……"],["洪委員孟楷：你指的是什麼樣的大環境改變？"],["薛部長富盛：像歐盟本身的CBAM，其執行細節事實上去年底也沒有出來；美國的CCA法案本來也是去年底要出來，到現在也還沒有……"],["洪委員孟楷：那有考量到國內的物價嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：對，我剛剛講的是國外，接下來是國內的，國內方面，當然我們看到經濟部電價審議委員會可能會在4月份……包括我們的化石產業、石化產業，因為過去這段日子以來，整個中國的經濟遭受到很大的挑戰，所以很多的包括化石、鋼鐵產品必須要低價傾銷到國際去，所以對國內，可能ECFA的一些企業也會受到影響。所以綜整國內外都有一些轉變，但是我們還是期待能夠如期來進行，包括碳費的子法，我們推動從來沒有停過，不會因為現在是看守內閣而停掉，不會！所以我們也期待碳費這一塊可以如預期，但是我們也必須尊重委員會的決定。"],["洪委員孟楷：委員會一定會有這個方向，會看主管機關的方向，你剛剛也提到經濟部有可能會在4月的時候調漲電價，怕會影響到產業的成本上升，是不是？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是你們當初是講什麼時候會開始收碳費？"],["薛部長富盛：它的概念基本上類似所得稅的概念，就是今年的是明年繳。"],["洪委員孟楷：就是費率本來預計是今年3月底要出來，然後明年就開始要收今年的碳費，是不是？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們講比較直接好了，你剛剛這樣繞了半天，我還是聽不太懂。所以意思是什麼？意思是上半年度到底會不會出來？因為本來是預計3月底，你現在說可能要考量到4月電價調漲的部分，可是醜媳婦總要見公婆啊！所以到底是什麼時候？有一個時間表嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：我們的時間表本來是3月底，我希望明天碳費委員會開完會……"],["洪委員孟楷：明天應該是處理兩塊，一個是時間什麼時候出來，一個是碳費的費率，對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：是，碳費費率……"],["洪委員孟楷：從一開始我們就有討論，那時候1公噸有講到100塊、500塊，到現在還有環保團體說3,000塊，對不對？那級距呢？這不是笑欸！部長，這是很嚴肅的問題。"],["薛部長富盛：是很嚴肅。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們要共同面對啊！"],["薛部長富盛：我知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：既然2050淨零碳排我們也已經講出來了，氣候變遷因應法也在去年我們大家一起努力推動了，現在這個就是棒子跟蘿蔔要拿出來，政策工具要出來。"],["薛部長富盛：不過跟洪委員報告，雖然大家都聚焦在碳費，但事實上對環境部而言，我們一直強調減碳比碳費的徵收更重要，碳費徵收只是一個工具，所以這裡面就是如何把配套措施，包括各個事業單位自主減量，這個才是我們的重點。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，本席也可以理解，就像經濟部也會講，電價調漲才會讓大家去珍惜用電，當然你這樣講合不合理這見仁見智，可是本席現在要確認的是，這畢竟是環境部提出來的一個方案，所以到底時間表？"],["薛部長富盛：時間表基本上我們是規劃3月底，但是執行……"],["洪委員孟楷：如果說真的會有延宕，延宕1個月、2個月，520前能不能確認？"],["薛部長富盛：事實上這個也是另外一個聲音，就如同我們之前在立院總質詢的時候，也有一些委員覺得現在的看守內閣什麼都不可以去做……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，看守內閣不能做，是指重大決策不應該現在去做，但是這一個碳稅、碳費的部分是之前就已經核定的，你當然時間表要出來啊！"],["薛部長富盛：是，我們的時間表是沒有變，但是剛剛的講是碳費的決定會影響到未來幾年的執行，特別是企業必須要做一些因應，所以我在這邊才……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長你這樣講，那本席再請教，賴清德總統當選後，有沒有跟你徵詢過要不要續留環境部部長？"],["薛部長富盛：我在任內一天，我就是好好把我的工作做好。"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有徵詢過？"],["薛部長富盛：沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為你剛剛這樣講，感覺你好像隨時要打包走人，所以520前你也不敢做重大決定，還是你想把這個碳費的攤子丟給下一個環境部長？"],["薛部長富盛：不會啦！洪委員你放心好了，我們該做的事都會去做。"],["洪委員孟楷：我不放心，因為你的態度讓我沒有很放心啊！"],["薛部長富盛：不會啦！該做的事情我們都會做……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以520之前會不會出來？"],["薛部長富盛：我尊重碳費委員會的決定。"],["洪委員孟楷：但你的時間表？"],["薛部長富盛：我的時間表，就像之前講的，我們基本上規劃是希望3月底，但是……"],["洪委員孟楷：好。部長，因為主席站起來了，我最後再一個問題，既然你沒有辦法回答時間表，我想請教另外一個部分。蘇丹紅的食安部分，您早上答詢的時候有講，跟咖啡跟茶等致癌風險列同等級，是絕對沒有辦法接受這樣的說法。"],["薛部長富盛：不是，我不是說沒有辦法接受，我是說它是屬於不同分類，在環境部的毒性及關注化學物質裡面的分類，它是屬於第四類毒化物。另外國際致癌物質的分類，它是被歸類為第三類，跟咖啡等同一類，但它是針對致癌，我們這個是毒性，所以這兩個是不同的單位，所以我並沒有說它是跟什麼……"],["洪委員孟楷：但是你可以接受蘇丹紅跟咖啡還有茶是同等級的東西嗎？應該沒辦法吧？不然以後大家開會就一杯茶、一杯咖啡、一杯蘇丹紅，不會吧？"],["主席：洪委員，是不是請部長等一下會後跟洪委員做說明？"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我只是要問你一個問題，因為你剛剛又岔題了，我只是說現在有看到食藥署跟環境部要研議57項具食安風險疑慮化學物質，列出高風險的物質，請教何時會公布？"],["薛部長富盛：那個57種很早經濟部、衛福部跟環境部就訂了，就是57類……"],["主席：是不是請部長會後再跟洪委員做個說明？因為時間的關係。"],["薛部長富盛：那個本來就在我們化學物質名單裡面了。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，再請同仁給本席一個資料，好不好？謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝洪委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來請羅廷瑋委員。","我先在這邊做個宣告，在楊瓊瓔委員發言結束後處理臨時提案。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":420,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-5","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","王育敏","王正旭","林德福","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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這個洪委員你放心好了我們該做的事情 我不放心因為你的態度讓我沒有很放心不會啦 我們把該做的事情都會做所以520之前會不會出來520之前會不會出來我尊重碳類委員會他們的決定但你的時間表"},{"start":373.376,"end":394.459,"text":"我的時間表就之前講我們基本上規劃是希望3月底但是來部長那個主席站起來我最後再一個問題那另外你這個沒有辦法回答時間表那我想請教另外一個部分蘇丹紅的食安部分那現在您早上也有打詢的時候你有講是說跟咖啡跟茶等自然風險列同等級是絕對沒有辦法接受這樣說法"},{"start":395.42,"end":396.501,"text":"那我們現在有看到說"},{"start":412.813,"end":417.076,"text":"但是你可以接受說蘇丹紅跟咖啡還有茶是同等級的東西嗎?"},{"start":434.489,"end":459.027,"text":"是不是應該沒辦法吧不然以後大家開會一杯茶一杯咖啡一杯蘇丹紅不會吧我只是要問一個問題因為你剛剛又岔題了我只是說現在有看到食安署食藥署跟環境部要研議57項的食安風險疑慮的化學物質列出高風險的物質請教何時會公佈"},{"start":459.847,"end":460.308,"text":"接下來請羅宗鑫"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}