{"error":false,"id":["149894"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149894,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149894","日期":"2024-03-14","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-14T11:32:40+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-14T11:44:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d2313596fcad3e43cb38859acded3ffe6c80faf8ba9b0039caa7a67fb243592e5149fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳玉珍","委員發言時間":"11:32:40 - 11:44:20","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":851,"blocks":[["陳委員玉珍：（11時32分）主席好，請總裁。"],["主席：請楊總裁。"],["陳委員玉珍：總裁你好。立法院在上個會期曾經通過臨時提案，要求央行會同金管會提交「打造外幣現鈔兌換新臺幣現鈔及儲值卡之複合式設備可行性」書面報告，現在外籍旅客到臺灣兌換新臺幣的管道有幾種，第一個，親臨銀行、郵局、信用合作社和農漁會信用部兌換新臺幣。第二個，使用銀行提款機及外幣兌換機兌換，現在全國機場、港口總共有30台兌換機。再來是到一些收兌處兌換，比如旅館、百貨公司、博物館等這些景點，近十年大概有兩百多家。我們來看金門，金門也是國門，小三通往來的人也很多很密切，現在金門唯一有人民幣兌換臺幣的提款機是永豐銀行。我們的水頭商港有兩家金融機構，一個是信合社、一個是土銀，臨櫃兌換服務是一到五早上9時至下午3時30分，禮拜六、禮拜天一例一休，所以沒有提供，還有購物中心金湖廣場和金湖飯店都有。最近我們的鄉親有在反映，因為週休二日都沒有辦法兌換，如果在水頭商港提供外幣兌換機部分，讓進出的旅客比較方便，用無人外幣兌換機進行小額匯兌，對從金門往來的不管是外國或是大陸旅客都有便利性，金門沒有這個服務是不是有違普惠金融的目標？總裁怎麼看？"],["楊總裁金龍：我簡單說，當然設置兌換機也是商業行為，委員質詢的也沒有錯，如果不普遍而造成人民的不方便，有違反普惠金融的目的，我也滿贊同。"],["陳委員玉珍：這個部分是不是支持？"],["楊總裁金龍：我也支持。"],["陳委員玉珍：到時候請金管會……"],["楊總裁金龍：因為這是金管會的職權。"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道，但是因為之前是要求你們和金管會聯合提出相關的外幣現鈔兌換新臺幣現鈔複合式設備……"],["楊總裁金龍：我們跟金管會針對金門……"],["陳委員玉珍：尤其是在小三通的港口。"],["楊總裁金龍：因為金門有小三通，這是一個比較特殊的情況，這是一個商業行為，我們來跟它溝通、溝通。"],["陳委員玉珍：這個部分請你協助。"],["楊總裁金龍：好。"],["陳委員玉珍：第二個問題，這幾天媒體報導，為了因應未來貨幣支付新形式，剛剛我看很多委員也有問，評估要導入央行數位貨幣（CBDC）的可能性，從去年11月開始委外進行，大概4月結案，5月會公布結果，新臺幣數位化未來使用CBDC，就像用電子支付app、QR-code等等轉帳、存款，或到ATM進行錢包儲值，把外幣或臺幣弄進去來做這個事情。根據國際貨幣基金（IMF）的報告，全球現在已經有超過100家在研究中央銀行數位貨幣，你們也在研究，但因為現在虛擬貨幣詐騙頻傳，導致人民的信任度低落，到時候你們怎麼樣鼓勵，還有增強民眾的使用意願？關於你們的進度，你說你們沒有要競賽、沒有要搶先發。"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有錯。"],["陳委員玉珍：你們還沒有設時間表，今年5月調查完成後，你預計整個發行的期程大概要多久？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們還是有三個階段，第一個階段，我們蒐集資料之後看到了結果，然後我們會舉辦論壇、公聽會，這個會花比較長的時間，因為要廣泛地讓大家知道這件事情，專家學者的意見是什麼，我們也會納入考量，這是第一個工程。另外，我們對於目前這個平台的技術是不是有再精進的空間，我們也跟國外的沙盒、BIS及其他的SWIFT共同來看Cross Border跨境的話要怎麼設計，這個都還在進行當中，所以時間不會很短，可能要很長的時間。"],["陳委員玉珍：大概呢？我知道你們也沒有要競賽，所有的政策施行都是要一些時間，我們也瞭解一下。"],["楊總裁金龍：跟委員報告，我們現在的進度不會輸其他國家。"],["陳委員玉珍：你講了很多以後沒有告訴我一個答案。"],["楊總裁金龍：這個很難。"],["陳委員玉珍：大概有一個進程吧，除了政策，我們政府……"],["楊總裁金龍：我剛剛也講了，這個timetable到目前我們還沒辦法……"],["陳委員玉珍：你也沒有擬定一個政策，譬如蒐集資料要3個月，專家學者研討要3個月。"],["楊總裁金龍：會有期程，但是最後……"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你有沒有打算把這個當作一件事情去做？"],["楊總裁金龍：當然有。"],["陳委員玉珍：如果有要做就會有一個目標，比如半年內完成、3個月內完成、1年內完成，有沒有這樣的期程？"],["楊總裁金龍：到目前為止，我們還不會有這樣的……"],["陳委員玉珍：中央銀行做這個政策決定未免太過輕鬆吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：不會，所以我剛剛才會引用……"],["陳委員玉珍：你剛剛有講了好幾個事情。"],["楊總裁金龍：我剛剛還有引用美國央行主席Powell所說的話，他也說發展CBDC要非常非常謹慎，他也沒有時間表，不只是美國……"],["陳委員玉珍：照我這樣聽起來，你的意思是你要往做的方向去做嗎？還是你是要不要做都還沒有確定，而只是說我們可能會做，還在研議階段？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們還是往前走，只是什麼時候……"],["陳委員玉珍：那會不會做呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：什麼時候要開始……"],["陳委員玉珍：什麼時候做是一回事。"],["楊總裁金龍：還沒有。"],["陳委員玉珍：你是有打算做還是沒有打算做？有打算做，才能說多久做什麼事，還是連要不要做都還沒有決定？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們是有這個決心要往前走，但是……"],["陳委員玉珍：往前走是做還是不做？要做吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：不是，現在就是要看我們……"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你還沒有決定要不要做？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個民意的情況我們看看……"],["陳委員玉珍：這是由民意決定要不要做？"],["楊總裁金龍：那當然。"],["陳委員玉珍：不是！央行應該是帶領我們國家前進的單位啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：那也不一定，不一定，我……"],["陳委員玉珍：要不要做這種電子化的支付，當然，世界潮流，臺灣的這個需求……"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦、對啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：那講民意，民意要做不要做，應該不是最先的考量吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：委員，有一件事，我剛剛有一個New eID……"],["陳委員玉珍：你們不是應該帶領各個銀行做先進的這些，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，剛剛有一個委員提到New eID的事情。"],["陳委員玉珍：有，我剛剛有聽到，有委員有問，我有聽到。"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以我才會問你。"],["楊總裁金龍：New eID我說政府也是要往前推的嘛！"],["陳委員玉珍：政府要往前推，所以政府是要往做的方向推嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，但是到最後，他就說……"],["陳委員玉珍：是要往做的方向推是嗎？還是不一定？"],["楊總裁金龍：不，不是說不一定，你往前推，但是你有一個最大的前提，就是要讓大家都能夠瞭解這個是不是會涉及到很多的問題。"],["陳委員玉珍：那個是涉及宣導，那個沒問題。"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：宣導是後面的事情，你的政策決定應該是有一個方向吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，不只宣導，還有……"],["陳委員玉珍：比如說我們對0到6歲國家養要不要做，這個是先有一個政策決定，然後接著說如果要做，分期是哪幾年做什麼事情、哪幾年做什麼事情，因為央行是一個相當重要的單位，如果你自己這個單位都沒有想要引領前進，你下面這麼多銀行也是跟著政策走的啊，如果鼓勵電子支付，鼓勵政府數位貨幣……所以我想瞭解的是您的政策方向，或者說你們還是在……"],["楊總裁金龍：我的政策方向還是往前走啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道是往前走，但你是往左邊走，還是往右邊走，往南邊走，還是往北邊走啊？"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，研究的階段最少最少都要3年以上。"],["陳委員玉珍：對啦，你給一個時間嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：對啊，最少都是要3年。"],["陳委員玉珍：這個數位貨幣要不要推呢？至少要先研究3年嘛。"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦，至少……"],["陳委員玉珍：你的意思是還是要研究，但是要研究3年？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個3年……"],["陳委員玉珍：研究3年以後才能決定往哪邊走，做或是不做嘛？"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：這樣講可以嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：可以。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以就非常地慢嘛，數位時代什麼事情要研究3年，不就是非常地慢嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，不會喔！"],["陳委員玉珍：不會喔？"],["楊總裁金龍：不會，我跟……"],["陳委員玉珍：這個科技日新月異耶！像那個晶圓幾奈米、幾奈米每一天這麼快地在進步。"],["楊總裁金龍：科技越進步，你就要越小心，也就是說……"],["陳委員玉珍：小心沒有錯，但是……"],["楊總裁金龍：第一個，也就是說……"],["陳委員玉珍：不過，報告的……"],["楊總裁金龍：你所使用的技術可能就是說……"],["陳委員玉珍：技術是一回事。"],["楊總裁金龍：技術也是很重要的。"],["陳委員玉珍：中華民國的技術應該是相當好，我也對我們國家有信心。"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，技術也要有很多……"],["陳委員玉珍：我的意思是說政策方向其實才是重點啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，政策方向我們還是會往前。"],["陳委員玉珍：如果照央行總裁您的這個回答方法，這個科技日新月異，但是你一個政策需要研究3年，我覺得這個應該再好好地檢討一下，實在是有點久了。"],["楊總裁金龍：我想我們會……"],["陳委員玉珍：我會期待是3個月……"],["楊總裁金龍：報告委員，我們會很謹慎。"],["陳委員玉珍：謹慎說好聽叫做穩健，說難聽叫做保守，這個你回去再思考一下啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：我會，好。"],["陳委員玉珍：數位化的這種潮流應該是世界都在走嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦！但是……"],["陳委員玉珍：我沒有要你搶先，但是你也不能研究這麼久，這個什麼政策要研究3年？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，我們的速度都比其他國家還快。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你的意思是其他國家也研究超過3年？有嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：有的都超過了啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：好，其他國家研究多久，請你給我一份資料，哪些國家研究超過3年，世界先進國家從開始研究要多久，請你給我一份資料好嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：好。"],["陳委員玉珍：謝謝你。"],["楊總裁金龍：謝謝，可以。"],["主席：接下來請顏寬恒委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-3","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","王世堅","李坤城","陳玉珍","顏寬恒","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":129,"meetingDate":["2024-03-14"],"gazette_id":"1131301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131301_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.26721875,"end":1.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.29221875,"end":3.1697187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.700343750000002,"end":10.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.965968750000002,"end":16.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.15909375,"end":19.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.36534375,"end":25.512218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.07346875,"end":25.613468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.613468750000003,"end":33.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.557218750000004,"end":38.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.79284375,"end":39.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.58596875,"end":39.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.32409375,"end":45.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.55971875,"end":47.500343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.55096875,"end":65.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.58471875,"end":48.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.03034375,"end":58.890968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.650343750000005,"end":60.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.034093750000004,"end":61.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.118468750000005,"end":61.439093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.65784375,"end":86.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.77409375,"end":78.11159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.42659375000001,"end":92.45534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.78909375,"end":89.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.47221875000001,"end":92.50596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.52284375,"end":96.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.80909375,"end":97.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.96096875,"end":97.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.60221875,"end":107.47409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.62159375,"end":110.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.15284375,"end":112.28346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.51971875000001,"end":123.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.42096875000001,"end":123.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.07909375000001,"end":127.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.39909375000002,"end":129.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.23409375,"end":135.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.41909375,"end":144.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.37159375000002,"end":142.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.29534375,"end":145.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.88159375,"end":164.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.76971875,"end":160.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.83221875,"end":179.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.94596875000002,"end":168.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start"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border就是說你跨境的話要怎麼來設計這個都是還是在進行當中那這個時間不會很短這個可能要很長的時間"},{"start":344.497,"end":344.737,"text":"我們現在的進度不會輸其他國家"},{"start":360.114,"end":384.625,"text":"所以呢?你講了很多以後你沒有告訴我一個答案我剛剛也講了這個就是說一個time table到目前我們還都沒有你也沒有擬定一個政策沒有說大概比如說收集資料要3個月什麼東西要專家協會研討在3個月所以你有沒有打算把這個當做一件事情去做?"},{"start":386.026,"end":408.8,"text":"當然有當然有嘛那所以如果有要做像我們這一個目標嘛比如說大概半年內完成三個月內完成一個月一年內完成對這個到目前為止我們還不會那這樣子這個中央銀行做這個政策決定未免太過輕鬆吧不會所以我剛剛我才會你剛剛有講好幾個事情嘛"},{"start":412.142,"end":431.169,"text":"我剛剛還有引用到那個什麼POWER就是美國央行的那個POWER就是他的主席他所說的話他發展CBDC他要非常非常謹慎他也沒有時間表那不只是說所以其實你的意思如果在我的聽起來就是說"},{"start":432.489,"end":461.829,"text":"你是要往做的方向去做嗎還是你要不要做都還沒有確定而只是說我們會往我們可能會做還在研議階段我們還是往前走但是什麼時候做是一回事你是有打算做還是沒有打算做有打算做才有一個說啊多久做什麼連要打算做都還沒有決定但是就是說我們是有這個決心要往前走往前走是做還是不做勒"},{"start":462.489,"end":463.329,"text":"有些時候委員有一件事我剛剛有一個"},{"start":490.674,"end":493.237,"text":"你們不是應該帶領各個銀行做先進的一些...對對對我剛剛有一個委員提到NEID的事情"},{"start":502.54,"end":529.689,"text":"我剛剛有聽到,他有問,我有聽到所以我才在問你啊我說政府呢,也是要往前推的嘛政府要往前推,所以政府是要往做的方向推嘛但是呢,到時候呢,他就說先往做的方向推是嗎,還是不一定不,慢慢,我不是說不一定你往前推,但是呢,你有一個最大的前提就是說要讓這些的,大家都能夠了解"},{"start":530.829,"end":559.401,"text":"這個是不是會涉及到很大的問題 那個是涉及宣導 那個沒問題那宣導是後面的事情 你的政策決定應該是有一個方向吧比如說我們對0到6歲國家養要不要做啊 這個是先有一個政策決定然後接著如果做的是分期是哪幾年做什麼事情 哪幾年做什麼事情因為央行是一個相當重要的單位吧 如果你自己這個單位都都沒有想要引領前進你下面這麼多銀行這個怎麼也是跟著政策走的啊"},{"start":559.921,"end":578.258,"text":"如果鼓勵電子支付鼓勵這種數位貨幣所以我想了解是您的政策方向或者說你們還是在我的政策方向我還是往前走啊我知道往前走你是要往左邊走啊往右邊走往南邊走啊往北邊走啊我跟委員報告啦最少最少你的研究的階段都要3年以上"},{"start":579.178,"end":600.81,"text":"對啦你給一個時間嘛所以說這個數位貨幣要不要推呢至少要先研究三年嘛你的意思說還是要研究研究三年以後才能決定這個往哪邊走可能做或是不做嘛這樣講可以嗎所以說非常的慢嘛數位時代什麼事情研究三年不就是非常的慢嗎"},{"start":601.73,"end":601.99,"text":"我我我我我"},{"start":618.075,"end":640.822,"text":"你所使用的技術呢可能就是說技術是一回事這個中華民國的技術應該是相當好我會為我們國家這個有信心我的意思是說政策方向其實才是重點啊如果照這個央行的總裁您的這個回答方法那個科技日新月異但是你一個政策需要研究三年我覺得這個應該在好的"},{"start":641.722,"end":644.003,"text":"我們的速度都比其他國家還快"},{"start":671.332,"end":686.062,"text":"所以你的意思是其他國家研究超過3年喔?有的,都做過了其他國家研究多久請你給我一份資料哪些國家研究超過3年世界先進國家從開始研究多久請你給我一份資料好嗎?好,謝謝你現在質詢請顏寬恆顏委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}