{"error":false,"id":["149895"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149895,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149895","日期":"2024-03-14","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-35-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-14T11:34:30+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-14T11:44:22+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135d4851536e5e404e9d1f4736135d62a1df8ba9b0039caa7a6a0774d604d2e170f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:34:30 - 11:44:22","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長邱國正報告「面對中共常態化對我侵擾與威脅之影響與應處作為」，併請國家安全局副局長、海洋委員會副主任委員列席，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":669,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時34分）謝謝主席。請邱部長。"],["主席：請邱部長。"],["邱部長國正：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長好。剛才幾位委員都有提到你回應民進黨立委講到的在地協力者的問題，如同你剛才自己說的，最後他到底有沒有定罪、有沒有法律問題，是檢調要調查，還有你也承認這個判定標準很困難，你可能也說不出所以然。比如問你的沈伯洋委員竟然告訴你可以用光譜來判定！我都不曉得這是哪門子的法律見解，用光譜、用政治光譜嗎？所以我具體建議，部長你是國防部長，因為你在這個部分並不是專業，比如剛才甚至有提到網路的一些反串言論，所以其實你真的大可不必去談這個所謂在地協力者的標準，我覺得只是徒增困擾而已，這是我對你的一個良心建議。","時間暫停一下，我也請我們的海巡署周署長。"],["主席：請周署長、副主委。"],["周副主任委員美伍：委員早。"],["王委員鴻薇：是，署長，早上你們發了一個新聞稿，就是今天翻覆的漁船是在東碇海域1.07浬，在東碇島西南方1.07浬翻覆的，請問署長，翻覆的地點應該是在我們的禁限制海域裡面嗎？因為非常非常的近，是吧？"],["周副主任委員美伍：它是在東碇島，因為東碇離金門有15浬遠，也就是說……"],["王委員鴻薇：是不是在禁限制海域？"],["周副主任委員美伍：對，它在東碇島的禁限制水域內。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，就我所知，因為它很接近了，所以事實上你們有在監控，也派巡防艇出去了，是不是？"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們的巡防艇是在線上巡邏，我剛剛有報告，我們在我們的金門附近水域巡邏。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以沒有針對這一艘漁船去特別接近它？"],["周副主任委員美伍：沒有，沒有針對這一艘特別去接近它，因為距離有15浬，15浬大概是將近30公里的概念。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以當時我們的巡防艇距離翻覆的漁船其實是很遠……"],["周副主任委員美伍：很遠。"],["王委員鴻薇：但它離東碇島非常近……"],["周副主任委員美伍：這個翻覆的漁船離東碇島只有1.07浬。"],["王委員鴻薇：對嘛！非常近。所以我的問題是，到目前為止，我們有沒有掌握到它到底為什麼翻覆呢？"],["周副主任委員美伍：目前我們不得而知，但是我們現在所有的船隻都在現場救援。"],["王委員鴻薇：現場的海象如何？"],["周副主任委員美伍：現場的海象……"],["王委員鴻薇：因為這艘船沒有被我們驅離的問題，沒有被我們追撞的問題，這個幾乎都……"],["周副主任委員美伍：沒有，都沒有。"],["王委員鴻薇：這個幾乎是完全排除。"],["周副主任委員美伍：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：那有沒有可能是因為海象的問題？"],["周副主任委員美伍：有可能是海象的問題，因為這2天鋒面經過，時好時壞，像這樣的船隻，通常它的船體狀況都不會很好，所以為什麼在過去幾年當中，我們經常會發現類似的漁船沉沒，也經常會因為這種類似的狀況而去救生、救難。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，不排除有海象問題。因為它離東碇島這麼近，好像等退潮的時候，當地甚至也不排除船隻會擱淺，因為現在這個船體還在漂來漂去……"],["周副主任委員美伍：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：那有可能在我們東碇島的岸上擱淺嗎？有沒有可能？"],["周副主任委員美伍：目前它的位置，我剛剛11點15分接到的通報是在東碇西南的0.05浬的位置，只剩下一個桅杆，我們的同仁……"],["王委員鴻薇：只剩下桅杆……"],["周副主任委員美伍：也就是說船體本身都已經翻覆在水線以下了。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以它是有可能擱淺在岸上？"],["周副主任委員美伍：海巡隊的潛水人員大概在10分鐘前就已經下水了，我們現在要到船艙裡面去看有沒有生還者。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為還有兩位失蹤。"],["周副主任委員美伍：是，還有兩位失蹤。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以以現在的狀況來講，你剛才說是0.05……"],["周副主任委員美伍：0.05浬，我剛剛有特別報告今天的流向是向東流，所以它有2節的流向，2節就是3.8公里，是很大的流向，這個流速是很大的。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，如果它擱淺在我們的海岸上，而大陸方面希望能夠登船，也就是去看有沒有生還者也好，或者是檢查船體等等之類的，我們會同意他們登船去檢查嗎？"],["周副主任委員美伍：我想就人道立場、救生、救難立場，相信航管單位應該會同意他們的救難人員到現場去，但是我相信這個僅止於海面。"],["王委員鴻薇：就是不能登島，對不對？"],["周副主任委員美伍：應該……"],["王委員鴻薇：在海面上，如果在海面上，你可以去檢查……"],["周副主任委員美伍：應該是，應該是。"],["王委員鴻薇：這是基於人道？"],["周副主任委員美伍：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：我也想請教部長，因為這件事離我們前面的金廈海域爭議事件時間非常短，其實之前是不歡而散、談判破裂，造成兩岸之間的緊張，然後對方也開始做一些行動，包含說臺灣沒有國際海域等等之類言論。依部長的判斷，針對這一次事件，第一個，我們剛剛講的，可以完全排除是因為我們從事驅離，或者是像之前有追撞的狀況，這是可以完全排除的，而且我們也根據對岸的要求，派出了4艘船一起去救援……"],["周副主任委員美伍：我更正，我們現在是6艘，我們又加了2艘。"],["王委員鴻薇：從4艘變6艘？"],["周副主任委員美伍：對，對。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以一共出動6艘船？"],["周副主任委員美伍：對，6艘。另外，我們也請金防部支援我們專業的潛水人員，他們有專業的潛水人員在金防部……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以軍方也有支援？"],["周副主任委員美伍：軍方也有支援，我們全力來做，而且東碇島的守軍現在全部在岸際加強搜索，畢竟它離岸很近，大概2,000碼左右的狀況，用高倍望遠鏡都可以看得到。只要一搜索到，他們就會通知我們海巡，我們會立刻到該位置去確認有沒有人。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，先請教部長，待會再請教署長，這個事件其實我們已經展開極高度的人道救援，不管是人力配置，還有我們的態度，所以部長覺得這次事件有沒有助於和緩之前因為金廈撞船事件而造成的兩岸緊張情勢？你覺得一樣還是升高，還是有可能和緩？"],["邱部長國正：剛剛海巡已經說明很清楚，照這種狀況來走的話，是不至於惡化，應該還算蠻平順，因為大家都基於一個人道救援的作法，也沒有為難的問題，我就把它看待為應該是一個比較好的處理方法……"],["王委員鴻薇：是比較好的方向。"],["邱部長國正：會影響到將來，可能在某一方面會稍微有點進展，但結果怎樣我不能預計。"],["王委員鴻薇：其實我必須講，因為翻船的地點非常非常近，其實已經是非常非常接近東碇島了，就是我們的禁限制海域……"],["邱部長國正：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是我們還是本於人道救援精神，並不會因此而有任何的說法，譬如我們先去檢討他們有沒有進來我們的禁限制海域。最後一點點時間，請問署長，你覺得這個事件有沒有辦法和緩之前緊張的氣氛？"],["周副主任委員美伍：跟委員報告，我的評估跟部長一樣，我們希望、希望……我早上特別強調，因為金廈水域很狹窄，經常會發生這樣子的事件，在過去沒有發生0214這個案件之前，我們這種密切接觸是非常密切的……"],["王委員鴻薇：非常多嘛！"],["周副主任委員美伍：我再跟委員補充報告，今天早上我們第一時間就跟對岸的執法區隊聯繫，他們現在把這6個人的名字，哪些是生存的、哪些是死的、哪些是失蹤的人名，全部都告訴我們海巡，所以我們的互通是沒有問題的，我們過去是這樣做，現在還是這樣做。在人道救援方面，在救生、救難方面，我剛剛也報告了數據，我們在發生海難的第一時間就是救人，什麼都不想，也不會講什麼禁限制水域，什麼都不會想，先把人救到再說。剛剛我也特別跟您報告，除了我們的潛水人員現在已經在水中尋找，我們還請金防部更專業的……"],["王委員鴻薇：我們還是用最大的力量……"],["周副主任委員美伍：對，能夠幫他們找到生還者。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝，謝謝署長、謝謝部長。"],["周副主任委員美伍：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員上臺發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-6","speakers":["馬文君","黃仁","沈伯洋","陳永康","羅美玲","林楚茵","徐巧芯","王定宇","賴士葆","羅智強","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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